Friday, 11^th July, 2025

 

The House met at 0900 hours

 

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

 

_______

 

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM SPEAKER

 

PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM REDLAND SCHOOL

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence, in the Public Gallery, of pupils and teachers from Redland School, in Lusaka District.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

 

I thank you.

 

_______

 

RULING BY MADAM SPEAKER

 

ON A POINT OF ORDER RAISED ON WEDNESDAY, 11^TH JUNE, 2025, BY MR B. MPUNDU, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR NKANA CONSTITUENCY, AGAINST HON. M. CHIKOTE, MP, MINISTER OF ENERGY, FOR FAILING TO DISCLOSE THE PURCHASE PRICE OF ELECTRICITY BY COPPERBELT ENERGY CORPORATION PLC FROM ZESCO LIMITED DUE TO A NON-DISCLOSURE CLAUSE CONTAINED IN THE BILATERAL AGREEMENT

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, the House will recall that on Wednesday, 11^th June, 2025, when the House was considering Question for Oral Answer No. 289, and Mr Y. Mtayachalo, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chama North Constituency was on the Floor, Mr B. Mpundu, the hon. Member of Parliament for Nkana Constituency raised a point of order. The point of order was raised pursuant to the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024. In his point of order, Mr B. Mpundu, MP, enquired whether, Hon. M. Chikote MP, Minister of Energy, was in order to not review the purchase price of electricity by the Copperbelt Energy Corporation (CEC) Plc from ZESCO Limited due to a non-disclosure close contained in the bilateral agreement.

 

In my immediate response, I reserved my ruling in order for me to study the matter. I have since studied the matter and I will now render my ruling.

 

Hon. Members, I wish, once more, to take this opportunity to address the issue relating to admissibility of points of order.

 

Hon. Members, Order No.139(3) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024, requires an hon. Member who wishes to raise a point of order to cite the Standing Order, law on privilege of Members, rule of procedure or practice that has been allegedly breached. Further, Standing Order No. 139(4) provides that:

 

“139. (4) Where a Member does not cite the Standing Order, law on privileges of Members, rule of procedure or practice breached, the presiding officer may insist on him or her doing so, and if he or she fails or does not adequately do so, the presiding officer may rule that the point of order is inadmissible.”

 

Hon. Members, a review of the verbatim record of Wednesday, 11^th June, 2025, reveals that Mr B. Mpundu, MP, did not cite the specific Standing Order, law on privilege of Members, rule of procedure or practice that was breached, as required by Standing Order No.139 (3). In that regard, the point of order raised by Mr B. Mpundu, MP, is inadmissible.

 

I thank you.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

_______

 

URGENT MATTERS WITHOUT NOTICE

 

MR E. TEMBO, HON. MEMBER FOR FEIRA, ON HER HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT, MRS NALUMANGO, ON THE PRESIDENT’S FAILURE TO ATTEND THE ZAMBIA INTERNATIONAL TRADE FAIR

 

Mr E. Tembo (Feira): Madam Speaker, on an Urgent Matter without Notice.

 

Madam Speaker: An Urgent Matter without Notice is raised

 

Mr E. Tembo: Madam Speaker, I rarely raise Urgent Matters without Notice. My matter is directed at Her Honour the Vice-President and Leader of Government Business in the House.

 

Madam Speaker, since time immemorial, in the 1980s, many Zambians and I have been attending the Zambia International Trade Fair (ZITF), which is an international event, which showcases Zambia’s economic potential and tourism, where a lot of money is made.

 

Madam Speaker, as a young child, I enjoyed seeing foreign Presidents come to officially open the trade fair with our President. At that time, it was Dr Kaunda and subsequently other Presidents. Is Her Honour the Vice-President in order to not explain to this country why there has been a shift that such an important international event should be shunned, not only by foreign Presidents but our own President? Is she in order to not come and explain what is going on? This has never happened in the history of this country.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

 

Apparently, they cannot hear what you are saying. Maybe you should be more specific.

 

Mr E. Tembo: Madam Speaker, in fact, it is the hon. Ministers who are making that noise.

 

Madam Speaker, the issue is that since time immemorial, the ZITF, which is an international event, where we showcase our economic potential and commercial progress, has in most cases been officially opened by foreign Presidents, accompanied by our own President. For the first time in the history of this country, we have failed to attract a foreign President to come and officially open the event, including our own. Is Her Honour the Vice-President in order to not explain why this has failed? Many Zambians, including myself, are very much concerned. I need those answers.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Feira, I am sure, you know that that matter does not qualify to be raised as an Urgent Matter without Notice. Yesterday, when certain questions were being asked, I said that it is sometimes difficult for us to sit in and listen to questions which bring in many extraneous issues, some of them even touching on the passing of our former President. That matter does not qualify to be an Urgent Matter without Notice, but if you really want it to be discussed, I will give you an opportunity to ask Her Honour the Vice-President a question. You will be the first one to ask. So, that matter does not qualify under this segment. However, if you really want the matter to be discussed, I will give you an opportunity to be the first one to ask a question under the next segment so that Her Honour the Vice-President can address it since you have raised the issue. People will think that His Excellency the President failed to attend the Zambia International Trade Fair (ZITF) or that no hon. Minister or foreign President attended the event, which leads to a lot of speculation. Since you have asked that question, I will give you an opportunity to pose it to Her Honour the Vice-President so that she addresses it.

 

With that guidance, we go to the next item on the Order Paper.

 

_______

 

THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

 

Mr E. Tembo (Feira): Madam Speaker, you can imagine that I have been attempting to ask questions during the Vice-President’s Question Time, but I have been failing.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

 

 Can you turn down your voices so that we listen to the question. Her Honour the Vice-President needs to have clarity on what the question is all about for her to answer sufficiently.

 

You may proceed, hon. Member.

 

Mr E. Tembo: Madam Speaker, thank you for, once again, giving me an opportunity.

 

Madam Speaker, I know that most people might not appreciate international relations. The Zambia International Trade Fair (ZITF) is an event that has taken place since time immemorial. At no time have we ever seen that international event officially opened by any person other than foreign Presidents accompanied by our own President.

 

Madam Speaker, the ZITF does not only showcase our economic and commercial potential as a country, but it is also a tourism event. In addition, it has a lot of value in terms of money coming into the economy and several other benefits that I am not able to outline now.

 

Madam Speaker, can the Vice-President explain to the Zambian people why the 2025 ZITF, which took place during the reign of the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government, was not officially opened by a foreign President. In fact, not even our own President attended. It not only shunned by foreign Presidents, but even by our own.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr E. Tembo: Madam Speaker, may I be allowed to debate. I indicated earlier that as a young person, I used to attend that event in the 1980’s when I was living in Ndola. It is an international event that is so important. So, many Zambians, including myself, are wondering why the event is being shunned by the public and foreign Presidents.

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Feira for asking what he sees as a very important question. I think that sometimes we get what we hear and make it a fact. I believe the hon. Member for Feira is a lawyer, and lawyers can twist things. However, they have to speak facts.

 

Mr Amutike interjected.

 

 Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

 

Please, can we restrain ourselves.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I agree with the hon. Member that the event has been going on for a long time. I have heard that it started in the pre-colonial era in 1956. That was before the hon. Member was born.

 

Madam Speaker, to say that there has never been a time when a President from another country has not come to officially open the event is actually not true. I hope the hon. Member can come with the information and tell us the Presidents who came for the event from 1956 to date.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr E. Tembo: I said that from when I started attending the event.

 

The Vice-President: It is not about what you remember. Your memory is not enough. We need facts presented on the Floor. Hon. Member, even during your lifetime, there were times when Presidents from other countries did not attend the event. We have had that situation and that is the truth.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member is a lawyer and he was speaking on behalf of the people of Feira. However, he did not cite any legal provision that was breached. If anything was breached, it is the convention, but no written law was violated. So, nothing compels the President to attend the event, but that does not reduce the purpose of the Zambia International Trade Fair (ZITF) and it still remains important.

 

Madam Speaker, most people who come to display at the ZITF do not do it on the day the President officially opens the event. They display and participate on other days. The President is working hard to make Zambia attractive for investment and that is exactly what people from other countries are coming for. His Excellency the President spoke about what happened at the event. Is that not enough?

 

Madam Speaker, I reiterate that no law has been breached and it is not the first time that a President from another country did not attend the event. On the other hand, Zambia is open for business and the event is a business venture. The Zambia economy is growing as more and more investment come in. That is what we need.

 

Madam Speaker, at the next ZITF, we might see a foreign President come. That can happen in another year. So, that is my advice to you, Hon. Member for Feira.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Madam Speaker: Thank you for the wisdom.

 

Mr Amutike (Mongu Central): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, and I also thank Her Honour the Vice-President.

 

Madam Speaker, I want to echo Her Honour the Vice-President’s words that Zambia is open for business and add that the people of Zambia are seeing that. We have just had three by-elections, but the Opposition could not even field a candidate in any of them because the people of Zambia have realised that the Opposition has no agenda. The Opposition in Zambia is dead. Our hon. Colleagues are now even using a man who has crossed over as a campaign tool.

 

Madam Speaker, I want to know what Her Honour the Vice-President has to say to the people in the Opposition in Zambia, which has no agenda and is dead and buried. What can she say to the Opposition that has now adopted a new strategy of using a dead man or someone who has passed on as a campaign tool? This is a Christian nation, which I know Her Honour the Vice-President, who is a Christian woman and pastor, is aware for that matter. What is that un-Christian phenomenon coming from the Opposition, which is dead and buried, in this country?

 

Mr E. Tembo started walking out of the Assembly Chamber.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Feira, please, can you resume your seat. We need to maintain the Quorum. You asked a question and I am sure you want to listen to other people’s questions and the answers that will be given. So, please, if you can –

 

Interruptions

 

Mr E. Tembo resumed his seat.

 

Madam Speaker: The rules require that you sit in the House and listen. I am sure the Lord will provide for him during this time.

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Mongu Central, who has asked the question about the hon. Colleagues in the Opposition, who have lost all four, not three, by-elections, including the one where we, the United Party for National Development (UPND), went unopposed.

 

Interruptions

 

The Vice-President: Further, the hon. Member said that the Opposition has no agenda. So, it has resorted to using a dead man to campaign. I have very little advice for the Opposition today. The Ruling Party hon. Members and Opposition hon. Members are Zambians. We do not use a dead person to campaign. Immediately a dead person is brought in, ciwa. That is what we say where I come from when one brings a ghost into an activity. All of us know that we do not use or talk about a dead man as if he were among the living and can be voted for, because that evokes the wrong emotions in people. That is another mistake that the Opposition made. Maybe, the Opposition can make me their consultant.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, there is a lot that the Opposition hon. Members can do. If they sit, calm down, and plan, they can contribute and provide checks and balances in this House, for example. They cannot be in the Opposition and bring nothing to the table, and use a dead man’s name to campaign. Please, let us respect the dead man. If they have failed, they should not talk about a person who was defeated. Do they want him to be defeated in death, again? Please, the Opposition hon. Members who are using the name of the late Sixth President are not doing justice to anybody, not even to the dead, not at all. We do not live among the dead in Zambia. When someone starts praising a dead person here, then, he or she is a witch. That is our tradition. The Opposition should not do that. Please, the man is gone. He did the best he could, but he is gone. That is why we respect him, even though we did not agree with him politically. The Opposition members are confusing things.We did not agree with the late Sixth President politically, but we did not hate him. The Opposition has lost because it is using wrong tools. That is my advice.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity.

 

Good morning to Her Honour the Vice-President.

 

Madam Speaker, yesterday, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security issued a Ministerial Statement over the killings in Mufumbwe. Unfortunately, some of us were not accorded a chance to ask questions because of the time limit.

 

Madam Speaker, we have the Zambia Security Intelligence Service (ZSIS) in this country. There are also a number of police checkpoints on our public roads. The hon. Minister stated that there were more than 50,000 illegal miners in Mufumbwe, meaning that the miners moved there over a long period. Does Her Honour the Vice-President not think that there was a lapse on the part of the Government? If the security wings had been on top of things, they would have alerted the Government to take precautionary measures. Does she not think that the Government should take full responsibility for the killings in Mufumbwe because it was not proactive?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Chama North for that question.

 

Madam Speaker, basically, the hon. Member for Chama North should be concerned, indeed, like all of us, about the illegality going on in the mining sector, particularly, in the gold mining sector. I think that there is gold mining in Mufumbwe, Lumezi, Kasempa, Mumbwa and Mpika. Basically, there is a lot of illegality in gold mining. However, I do not fully agree with the hon. Member that there was a lapse on the part of the Government. We have laws in our country, and one of the things that we provide for in our democratic country is the free movement of people. People move freely. If someone finds me on a road going towards the east, it is not easy to know that I am going to Lumezi to mine gold. The Government has done a lot in the mining sector. Illegalities are not allowed in the sector. If I were to list the crimes that we all hate in this country, I would say that murder is the one we hate most, but it still occurs. You cannot put that crime on the lap of the Government. Illegalities are committed by people who have decided to fight the law. Everybody knows that.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government has opened up opportunities for people to apply for artisanal licences and protect their small mines. However, people have chosen to commit crimes. Illegal mining is a crime. An illegality is a kind of crime. Yesterday, I heard the hon. Minister say that unfortunately, there are some leaders who are beneficiaries of what is happening. He was very clear yesterday that he was not talking about the right side or the left side of the House; he was talking about leaders. He even mentioned that if we want to fight illegal mining, all of us must speak the same language. We cannot allow the kind of illegality where people, in their thousands, overrun a place within a day or two. That is not an easy thing to control. However, when the police go to such an area in numbers, we start criticising them. Let us stand together because this matter is not about the UPND; it is about our country. Each one of us must protect the peace that we enjoy.

 

Madam Speaker, I appeal to all of us in this House and to all leaders out there to stamp out illegal mining. People should get mining licences because then, they will have a duty to protect their tenement, not the way they are doing it now. The gold resource is not even bringing anything good to us, as a country. I think that the hon. Minister spoke to that, and I totally agree with him that the wonderful, rich resource that has been discovered should benefit the country. It is not as if the Government knew that there was gold in the places we are talking about. Some people are even complaining about the countrywide mapping of resources, but the programme is important because it is preparation. The hon. Minister talked about protected areas. How can we protect certain areas if we do not know where certain minerals are found?

 

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the concern by the hon. Member, except that he wants to put blame on the Government. No, let us not point fingers. The situation has come, and we must curb it in its infancy. We have to stop it now. This is not about the UPND. I say things that are true because I am open. One day, some people on the left will be here on the right.Is the illegal mining situation the kind of thing we want in the country? No, hon. Colleagues. 

 

Hon. Government Member interjected.

 

The Vice-President: Not those, eh? Okay, I am speaking my mind.

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: We have said that we will be here on the right for fifty years.

 

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

 

Eng. Milupi: Even longer!

 

The Vice-President: Even longer, or shorter.

 

Madam Speaker, the point is that the hon. Member should remember that he is a leader. So, he has to fight, whether he is on the left or not, because being in the Opposition is a privilege. He is a leader. Let us fight what we have to fight together. None of us should support the illegality that has come into mining. Yes, we have a duty to stop it. Yesterday, the hon. Minister spoke on behalf of the ministry.

 

Interruptions

 

The Vice-President: Thank you, he is here. He is working to restore sanity in the industry, particularly in gold mining, which is a new thing for us. We are working and also looking at other countries that the hon. Minister has travelled to, to get ideas on how to put together legal and administrative frameworks so that this type of mining becomes profitable to all the people of Zambia. This is also to stop the illegality which can bring total chaos in our country, if we do not work together.

 

Madam Speaker, on this one, we need to stand, agree and bring solutions that the hon. Member thinks we have not thought of. That is the way to go. He is a leader just like I am, except I am a Vice-President and he is an hon. Member of Parliament.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.  

 

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, I come from a constituency that is purely into mining. I would like to, once again, thank the Government for working hard to put Mopani Copper Mines Plc back on the rails, and also for the fact that the Government managed to increase the shareholding rate to about 49 per cent from the 20 per cent we had. My concern is that after all this hard work, the Government, again, has pulled back the wrongdoings that were happening in the past, of suppliers not being paid on time and contracts being terminated, leaving our people without employment. I visited my constituency a few days ago and currently, I have 100 miners who have not had their salaries for the last three months. It is all because of what is currently happening at Mopani Copper Mines Pls, where the Government’s effort, somehow, is not being felt due to the wrong things that are starting to happen. What is Her Honour the Vice-President’s strong message to Mopani Copper Mines Plc so that our people can benefit from the hard work that this Government put in to get Mopani Copper Mines Plc back on the rails?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Kantanshi for that concern on Mopani Copper Mines Plc.

 

Madam Speaker, I may have missed one or two points along the way in trying to listen carefully but, generally, I think the hon. Member was saying that there are a number of wrong things going on at Mopani Copper Mines Plc, even though the Government has increased shareholding rates in the company. He believes that what is going on is a repeat of what was going on before Mopani Copper Mines Plc literally went under in the past. The hon. Member has talked about suppliers not being paid, termination of contracts, ­ I believe at will, and people not being paid. I do not know whether it is the actual salaried employees who are not being paid and, therefore, creating an environment which is not anticipated by Zambia and this Government.

 

Madam Speaker, generally, I would speak to any company that is in Zambia. We are attracting companies to Zambia. What is important is for these companies, including Mopani Copper Mines Plc to adhere, firstly, to what we agreed.  We say that Zambians must be given preference for contracts in companies like that because this is how we are going to create jobs. That is what we have promised. Standing on this Floor, I have said it before that jobs are not created directly by the Government. It is too limited. Jobs are created in the private sector. So, we expect our colleagues running private companies in the country or, indeed, where we have shareholding to do the right thing.

 

Madam Speaker, as for suppliers, when Zambian suppliers are able, they must be considered. That is the way it should be. Also, contracts should not be terminated at will. I believe every contract has terms and conditions.

 

Madam Speaker, on the issue of not paying people when the company is seemingly viable, I would not know why. My advice is that we should adhere to that which we have agreed. Whether it is Mopani Copper Mines Plc or another company, let us not abrogate the laws of our country. Let us work. As they get their profit, they should ensure that Zambians get something as well. However, on the specifics, the hon. Member may have the details of who and whom, and my hon. Minister is here. Those are things they can chat about, and the hon. Minister will listen because he is our representative in Mopani Copper Mines Plc. This is specific to Mopani Copper Mines Plc. The hon. Member does not even have to wait because he comes from there. He should have a chat with the hon. Minister.  The hon. Minister can even invite him so that they have a chat about what is going on. They should talk about who is giving the suppliers jobs. Is it that Zambians cannot manage? If they can, I believe that is a wrongdoing. However, the hon. Member has to have the evidence and, through the hon. Minister, sit with representatives from Mopani Copper Mines Plc.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chala (Chipili): Thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker, the Cash-for-Work programme was a good project.

 

Mr Nkandu: It is still good!

 

Mr Chala: No, I am saying that it was a good project and I supported that intervention by the Government. Now, the money that this Government is dishing out is being misused. I am saying so because of what I saw somewhere. I am asking this question because in my view, the purpose of that project was achieved, which is excellent. Now, I want to know why we, as the Government, have continued this project, which has already achieved its intended goal. Could Her Honour the Vice-President give me four reasons she thinks we should continue with this project.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

 

Mr Chala: Madam Speaker, I am saying so because where I went –

 

Mr Nkandu: Question!

 

Mr Chala: Listen!

 

Madam Speaker, where I went, I found four people from one council drinking and saying that they had a black table because of Cash-for-Work. When I asked who those people were, I was told that on that table, there was the Council Secretary, the Director of Planning and the Director of Finance. When I asked why they were saying that, I was told that workers were paid the previous day, which was a Friday, and that was a Saturday.  Now, may I have four reasons we should continue this project when it has achieved its purpose.

 

Laughter

 

Hon. Members: Ema four cousins, aba!

 

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

 

We are losing time. Please, can we maintain some silence.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Chipili, who is concerned about the Cash-for-Work programme. He started by saying that when this programme was introduced by this responsible Government, he supported it, and I believe every other person must have supported it. He further said that since it has achieved its intended purpose, why then have we continued with it when it is being misused? He gave an example of four people whom he met and said were drinking. So, maybe, they were partaking together. He said that the four people who were drinking were saying, “This is Cash-for-Work.” He even named those people and he knows the place. He said there was a Council Secretary, Director of Finance at the local council and I did not hear the positions of the other two.

 

Interruptions

 

Hon. UPND Members: Four cousins!

 

The Vice-President: I missed the four reasons.

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: What I heard is that the hon. Member’s concern is that this programme has achieved its intended purpose, therefore, it should be stopped because he found four people misusing it. Honestly, do you cancel a programme because four people have been found misusing it, hon. Member?

 

Madam Speaker: Your Honour the Vice-President, the hon. Member wants you to give four reasons the Cash-for-Work programme should continue.

 

The Vice-President: I should give four reasons?

 

Madam Speaker: Four reasons.

 

The Vice-President: Oh! I see.

 

Madam Speaker: Which was subsequently referred to as “four cousins”.

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: I did not hear the part I was asked to give four …

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: … reasons, I hope I will think of some. For now, I am trying to understand the scenario. People from the council were drinking, I do not whether they were two or more, but the hon. Member said that he found people drinking, and they were saying that the money they were using was from the Cash-for-Work programme. These are the people who are supposed to pay the people who had worked. Firstly, it is wrong for the hon. Member, even in research, to do a sample of one thing and draw a conclusion. The hon. Member would fail if it were an examination. We cannot tell the people that we have found a solution based on one situation. I think, what the hon. Member saw –

 

Mr Chala interjected.

 

The Vice-President: Hon. Member, I am responding to your question. Here, we must really talk because if I am speaking to myself, you can follow me afterwards to ask what I said. However, the point is, you cannot make a conclusion based on one situation of four people drinking. That is one reason that your reasoning is not working very well.

 

Madam Speaker, secondly, the hon. Member said he knows those people who were drinking, and he is reporting here instead of to the police.

 

Mr Chala indicated dissent.

 

The Vice-President: That is true.

 

Mr Chala: That was an example.

 

The Vice-President: Was that just an example? Is it not a true situation?

 

Mr Chala: I was telling you what is on the ground.

 

The Vice-President: I thought you said that you went somewhere and heard some people talk about the Cash-for-Work programme. Is that not what he said? So, reporting here is something that you should not have done. Honestly, can you not report them to the police, if you manage to have proper evidence of what they said? Surely, that is the route you should take rather than condemn the whole thing.

 

Madam Speaker, I am not sure if I will manage to give the fourth reason, but let me give the third reason. We will continue the programme. The purpose of the Cash-for-Work programme was to respond to the drought, but remember that those who were being given money were also unemployed, and even their participation in agriculture after losing everything may be very limited. Therefore, as long as there is money at the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, this programme is worth keeping so that we do not let people suffer.

 

Madam Speaker, I think, I have failed to give the fourth reason.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Ms Nakaponda (Isoka): Madam Speaker, good morning to Her Honour the Vice-President.

 

Mr Nkandu: Quality!

 

Ms Nakaponda: Madam Speaker, the President of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, …

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Nakaponda: … made a Presidential directive, through the Secretary to the Cabinet, that couples who work in different places should be brought together to, among other things, reduce divorces, which are now rampant, reduce financial stress of maintaining two separate homes, reduce travelling expenses, avoid social isolation, and feeling disconnected from the family and loved ones.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Nakaponda: Madam Speaker, there are such couples in my constituency. My question to Her Honour the Vice-President is: How far has this Presidential directive gone, or what is the Government’s position on this issue, which has taken too long to be actualised?

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkandu: Quality!

 

Interruptions

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member has asked a very important question that even the hon. Minister has forgotten who she is.

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: She is shouting that ifwupo fyaonaika!

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, thank you very much. That is a very important question. I may not have picked all the things that happen because of couples living apart, but it is true, the President gave this order.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member wants to know how far we have gone in actualising that directive because it has taken too long. Let me be very sincere here that this is a countrywide situation. So, sometimes, when you are looking at what is happening in Isoka only, you may not see what is going on.

 

Hon. Member interjected.

 

The Vice-President: Yes, yes, that is why I am giving an example. As an hon. Member of Parliament, your number one concern is your constituency. That is where you get the information from, but the process to try and put couples together is on-going. It is a little slow. Let me tell the hon. Members what is happening, hopefully they are aware of it.

 

Madam Speaker, when we are recruiting, because some people want jobs so desperately, they say they are from Luangwa, and then hardly six months, they say that their husbands are in Lusaka. So, we have this overwhelming situation. However, where it is possible, this directive is followed. That I can tell this House. I know of a few couples who have been reunited, but that depends on one’s profession and where one is working. If one is a teacher, for example, and there is nowhere to go near where the husband works, what do you think will happen? So, such a person will have to wait until a vacancy is found or created. Otherwise, couples may go to the same area, but one of them may not be able to work because there is nowhere to work.

 

Madam Speaker, it is a complicated issue, but the Government is working on that because it completely agrees with the President that it is important for couples to be together for many reasons, including the ones the hon. Member has given and far beyond. So, it is important that this is done and the Secretary to the Cabinet is working on it. The couples also indicate the places where they can work, and it works faster that way. However, we are working on it. The Secretary to the Cabinet is adhering to the Presidential directive on this matter. However, let us tell people who want employment to not lie just to get jobs and, afterwards, say their husbands are in Kalulushi, as this compounds the situation.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, I am grateful for the opportunity.

 

Madam Speaker, we are grateful for the investments we have seen in the education sector, especially in the training of a girl child. Today, we can celebrate having had two female Vice-Presidents; the current and previous Vice-President. In addition, we have the first-ever female Speaker of the National Assembly of Zambia.

 

Madam Speaker, the statistics on the enrolment of girl children are actually higher than those for boy children. The girls are the ones who are now getting six points in Grade 12 examinations. Today, the boy child’s future is under attack. If we were to get the statistics on the boys who are languishing in prisons, those at Chainama Mental Hospital because of drug addiction and those who are called junkies, we would see that the numbers are high.

 

Madam Speaker, I want to know whether the Government intends to come up with an action plan to save the future of the boy child, whom I feel is under attack.

 

Mr Simumba: Quantity!

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: Iwe, quantity? That is quality, mwana!

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: Sorry, Madam Speaker.

 

  Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Kabwata’s concern is that a girl child seems to be doing better than the boy child. He is right because in the past, the girl child’s selection to Form 1 after the Grade 7 examination was very low. The girl child’s results were far lower than the boy child. That was the expectation. The hon. Member has said that girls are performing better while boys are in prisons and some are junkies. However, it is important to note that boys have always been higher in number in prisons than girls. I think that is the true record, but, maybe, now, it is a little too high.

 

Madam Speaker, the question is whether the Government is doing anything to help the boy child, whom the hon. Member says is under attack. What is important is to understand what is attacking the boy child. That is what comes to my mind. If boys are under attack, what is attacking them? It is not just for me here, but for all of us to think about.

 

Madam Speaker, if I remember correctly, the hon. Member has spoken about this issue before and even said that, at the end of the day, if we do nothing for the boy child, our good girls will be marrying junkies or convicts.

 

Hon. PF Members: Question!

 

The Vice-President: That is true and that is why all of us must be thinking about what is attacking the boy child more than the girl child. That should not be left to the Vice-President alone. Yes, indeed, we had affirmative action in this country for the girls and women, but, maybe, it is time to think of what kind of affirmative action should be taken for the boys. All I can standing here is that it is important for us to think about the issue and see if any policy direction can be provided to help the boy child. It is good that we have started thinking about the issue, except that we have not put a finger on the different interventions that can be put in place.

 

Madam Speaker, while we are worrying about the boy child, where are the father figures in the homes?

 

Mr Chala: Forget about fathers.

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I am sorry I am digressing, but I think I heard somebody say, “Forget about fathers?

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, we cannot forget about fathers because they are the ones who should show the boy child how to behave. The absence of fathers in the lives of children is one of the attacks on the boy child. That is one of the attacks. Basically, the home is number one place to look for solutions. The homes where children are coming should have mentors. Even as leaders in this House, we should lead by example on how we are giving birth to children.  We should mentor them in our homes and helping them to see the values in school. Nonetheless, the Government will come on board to play its part.

 

Madam Speaker, honestly speaking, that is a very important question, but I cannot say that I can give a comprehensive answer.  As I said, let us all continue thinking about the issue. Even in this House, people can use the Committees to look at which programmes can be done and the kind of policy that can be put in place because we are – If we went to the illegal mines, we would find that it is mainly the boys that are there. Although I have heard the voices of girls in the news on the issue, mainly, it is the boys who are found in such places. So, what are we doing about the matter? That is an important question. So, as I said, let us all think about it because I cannot give the correct answer right now.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr P. Phiri (Mkaika): Thank you so much, Madam Speaker, for this opportunity. I will be quick because I have seen that time is running out.

 

Madam Speaker, the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government was celebrating its achievements in the last four years of being in power. Our hon. Colleagues were saying kwenyu, kwenyu, which means clapping or tick, tick. If I remember very well, that happened in the Southern Province.  

 

Madam Speaker, I would like the people of the Eastern Province to do the same and say kwenyu, kwenyu and I want to be part of them. I just want to remind you –

 

Eng. Nzovu: Remind who? On what?

 

Mr P. Phiri: Madam Speaker, when is the Government going to contract a serious contractor to work on the Chipata/Lundazi Road and Katete/Chanida Road? The Government has failed to open the Katete Fruit Processing Plant, which is almost complete. We also want to do the kwenyu, kwenyu, kwenyu. When are those particular projects in the Eastern Province going to be attended to so that people can also do kwenyu, kwenyu, kwenyu?

 

Ms Nyirenda clapped.

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Lundazi, you were clapping. That is against our rules. Please, go through Standing Order No. 214, or is it No. 215? You are not supposed to clap or applaud while you are in the House. That is just a reminder, and a polite and gentle reminder for that matter.          

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, thank you so much.

 

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Mkaika for that very important question on the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government’s achievements, except the comparison is that in the Southern Province, people were saying kwenyu, kwenyu and then in the Eastern Province …

 

Interruptions

 

The Vice-President: Are you interrupting?  It is important –

 

Interruptions

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, –

 

Interruptions

 

 The Vice-President: You have asked a question.  Now listen to the answer.

 

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

 

Please, let us listen to the answer.

 

The Vice-President: Indeed, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members for Lunte and Mkaika, please, tone down.

 

The Vice-President: Good!

 

Madam Speaker:  Even the hon. Member for Mkushi South should, please, tone down. Can we allow Her Honour the Vice-President to answer the question.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, there is what is called wilful blindness.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Is the hon. Member not aware that we are working on the Chipata/Chadiza Road? Kwenyu.

 

Hon. Member: Kwenyu.

 

The Vice-President: Is the hon. Member not aware that there is free education in the Eastern Province? Kwenyu. Is he not aware that we have increased the Constituency Development Fund (CDF)?

 

Hon. Government Members: Kwenyu!

 

The Vice-President: Is he not aware that we are even sending children to skills training centres under the CDF?

 

Hon. Government Members: Kwenyu!

 

The Vice-President: Is he not aware that in the Eastern Province, there are many young people who have been recruited as teachers and as health workers?

 

Hon. Government Members: Kwenyu!

 

The Vice-President: Is he not aware?

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: Is he not aware that in the Eastern Province, we are working on the Katete/Chanida Road?

 

Hon. Government Members: Kwenyu!

 

The Vice-President: Those issues, the hon. Member must sort them out; I talked about that earlier. Otherwise, he himself knows that we are working on the Lundazi/Chipata Road, kwenyu. We are even going to build a milling plant in Petauke, kwenyu. I can go on, but time is not enough. I have many kwenyus …

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: ... in the Eastern Province, Mkaika, –

 

Interruptions

 

The Vice-President: You are clapping again, you will be caught.

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, let us look at the kwenyus. It is true that there may be things that have not been worked on. We cannot do everything at the same time. We will continue next year. This kind of language should be stronger at the time of the Budget. We will continue to work because the lives of our Zambian people must improve under this Government, under the leadership of President Hakainde Hichilema. So, the Eastern Province –

 

Hon. Government Members: Kwenyu.

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

The Vice-President’s Time expired.

 

_______

 

ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM SPEAKER

 

PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM TOPGRADE ACADEMY

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence, in the Public Gallery, of pupils and teachers from Topgrade Academy in Kafue District.

 

 On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

 

Thank you.

 

PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM PAKACHELE COMMUNITY SCHOOL

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence, in the Public Gallery, of pupils and teachers from Pakachele Community School in Lusaka District.

 

 On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

 

Thank you.

 

REMINDER ON BOLEHOLES

 

Madam Speaker: There will be another announcement regarding the boreholes. It is just a reminder hon. Members. You have not been very responsive, so I will make an announcement later, as a reminder.

 

_______

 

BILLS

 

SECOND READING

 

THE INCOME TAX (Amendment) BILL, 2025

 

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

 

Madam Speaker, the Bill before this House is principally seeking to amend the Income Tax Act so as to:

 

1. increase the withholding tax from fifteen percent to twenty percent on Government securities;

 

1. introduce a minimum alternative tax at the rate of one percent to counter tax avoidance and broaden the tax base; and

 

1. provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the forgoing.

 

Madam Speaker, this Bill is straightforward, and I commend it to the House.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Madam Speaker, in accordance with the terms of reference as provided for under Order No. 204(4)(d) of the National Assembly Standing Orders, 2024, the Planning and Budgeting Committee was tasked to scrutinise the Income Tax (Amendment) Bill No. 9 of 2025.

 

Madam Speaker, in order to finance the Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure No. 1 of 2025, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning introduced new tax measures aimed at enhancing domestic resource mobilisation, curbing tax avoidance and broadening the tax base. Accordingly, the Income Tax (Amendment) Bill No. 9 of 2025 seeks to amend the Income Tax Act, Chapter 323 of the Laws of Zambia.

 

Madam Speaker, the Bill proposes to introduce a minimum alternative tax at the rate of 1 per cent to counter tax avoidance and broaden the tax base. Further, it seeks to increase the withholding tax rate on interest earned from Government securities from 15 per cent to 20 per cent.

 

Madam Speaker, in considering the Bill, the Committee interacted with various stakeholders, including Government agencies, private sector representatives and professional associations. I urge hon. Members to refer to the Committee’s report for a detailed account of the views represented by various stakeholders.

 

Madam Speaker, on the proposed minimum alternative tax, stakeholders generally support its intended objective of curbing tax avoidance, particularly among businesses that continuously declare losses despite recording significant turnover. However, they raised concerns that the flat 1 per cent turnover tax may have unintended consequences on businesses. In particular, stakeholders cautioned that high turnover but low margin sectors, such as agriculture, manufacturing and retail could be disproportionately affected, as the tax would apply even during loss and low profit periods, where the corporate income tax liability is lower than the liability under the minimum alternative tax. This would result in businesses being taxed on turnover despite generating a marginal profit or just breaking even. Stakeholders further noted that introducing such a significant measure in the middle of the financial year could disrupt budgeting cycles and operational plans. Some stakeholders expressed concern over the lack of consultation with the business community prior to its introduction.

 

Madam Speaker, having reviewed the Bill and engaged stakeholders, your Committee supports the principle of introducing a minimum alternative tax. However, it expresses concern on the fact that its current design could impose an unfair burden on genuinely loss-making entities as well as profit-making businesses that are operating within thin margins. In this regard, your Committee recommends that the Government considers suspending the introduction of this measure until adequate industry consultation has been undertaken to address equity concerns and allow sensitisation of the business community. Furthermore, your Committee strongly recommends that any significant tax policy changes should be implemented only at the start of a financial year.

 

Madam Speaker, another major proposal is the increase in the rate of withholding tax on interest from Government securities from 15 per cent to 20 per cent. While the objective to raise revenue is understandable, stakeholders strongly cautioned that the increase may reduce the attractiveness of Government securities, particularly among retail and tax-sensitive institutional investors. Moreover, your Committee observes that the measure could undermine the objectives of the Government's 2024-2026 Medium-Term Debt Management Strategy, which aims to reduce the Government's borrowing costs and deepen the domestic debt market. As such, your Committee recommends that the measure be re-assessed in light of its potential to increase borrowing costs and dampen investor confidence.

 

Madam Speaker, your Committee is also concerned that the Bill does not specify the effective date for the new withholding tax rate. Stakeholders emphasised that the retrospective application of tax measures that impose a burden on taxpayers is inconsistent with sound tax policy principles. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the new withholding tax rate be applied only to newly issued Government securities, and that the effective date be explicitly stated. That will ensure legal certainty and safeguard market confidence.

 

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, I wish to state that your Committee supports the Income Tax (Amendment) Bill No. 9 of 2025, subject to its recommendations on the design and implementation timelines for both the minimum alternative tax and the withholding tax rate increase.

 

Madam Speaker, allow me to express my sincere gratitude to all the stakeholders who appeared before the Committee and made valuable submissions. Appreciation also goes to you, and the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly of Zambia, for your guidance and support throughout the Committee's work.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker, the Supplementary Budget has already passed the Second Reading stage. So, refusing to support this money Bill is indirectly sabotaging the Supplementary Budget. However, I would like to comment on the provisions of this Bill in the sense that it has clearly introduced the issue of policy consistency in light of a nation that decided to elect the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government, which promised policy consistency.

 

Madam Speaker, this tax law will be changed in the middle of the year. Business men and women have already made plans for their businesses for the rest of the financial year. Investors in Government securities knew that for the rest of this year, there would only be a 15 per cent withholding tax. In the middle of the year, the Government is saying that it will increase that tax to 20 per cent. That is bad for business and investors. One does not tell investors in the middle of the year that one is increasing taxation. It is bad. Tax consistency is good for planning, and when businesses plan well, there can be boosted business performance. When one boosts business performance, one increases economic opportunities for the many people who are unemployed and looking to the UNPD Government to create employment. They do not ask that they all be employed by the Government. They ask for the creation of an environment that attracts investment and promotes business so that those businesses can create employment opportunities. Does the House know that businesses do not stop at creating employment, they also create business opportunities? When the UPND Government chases traders from the street, those people must find opportunities elsewhere, and where will that be? It is from the businesses, and those are the businesses that the Government is telling that they cannot plan now.

 

Madam Speaker, many factors in the business environment change every day. Investors in most manufacturing plants do not even know how long they will have electricity, how much the Kwacha will cost tomorrow or how much fuel is going to cost next month. That is, indeed, unpredictability when it comes to business, and it should not come to taxation as well. That is my problem. You can imagine that one cannot predict the availability of electricity and the cost of the Kwacha. One cannot predict anything, and now it should come to taxes. It is important for the UPND Government to realise that as much as policy changes affect businesses, they also affect ordinary Zambians who look up to business men and women to create opportunities for them.

 

Madam Speaker, as I said, it is difficult to clearly say that I do not support this Motion because the Budget has already passed through the Second Reading stage. I would be seen as a hypocrite. Even though I support this, it is painful. The UPND Government needs to change the manner it looks at the suffering business community. The business community is struggling because of policy inconsistencies. Those who listened to the UPND when its members were seated on the left side of the House will remember how they promoted themselves on their ability to promote policy consistency. However, when one looks at what the Government is doing now, one gets confused and thinks that it is not the same group of people, but they are the ones.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

 

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I feel very bad that I can stand on this Floor to debate the adoption of this Bill in the middle of the year. I propose that the UPND thoroughly thinks about 2026, because if it comes back with these adjustments in the middle of 2026, it will be very difficult for those who believed that it had the capacity to remain consistent with its promises and the way it views investors.

 

Madam Speaker, one diplomat, not long ago, spoke in a high-level meeting, and he told the UPND Government that it had failed to create an environment to attract American investors. These are the issues. No serious investor can invest in an economy that has no predictability, and so he or she cannot properly plan for his or her business. No investor can think about a nation that cannot even determine when electricity will be available for an investor’s factory. That was at a time when a Minister from another country thanked the UPND for exporting power to their country.

 

Madam Speaker, I am deeply concerned. I would like to urge the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to take charge. If he is being misled to do these things, he must identify the people who are misleading him. He must look back at the people who were placed in holding positions and are just earning money for nothing. Maybe, some of them have the capabilities to help the hon. Minister project the budget in a manner that does not allow him to come in the middle of the year to adjust tax policies.

 

Madam Speaker, I would like to end by saying that it is important for the UPND to reflect in Jesus' name.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, the people of Chilubi would like to add their voice to the Bill on the Floor of the House.

 

Madam Speaker, this Bill is being presented in an economic environment, which is dominated by foreigners. I do not mean foreigners by colour because I know that there are Zambians who may be white or Indian, but I am talking about foreigners who have come through the Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) window.

 

Madam Speaker, many Zambians –

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Fube: The noise coming from here is very disturbing.

 

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

 

It is your Members disturbing you.

 

Hon. Members, you are disturbing the hon. Member for Chilubi. Please, can you tone down as you consult.

 

May the hon. Member continue.

 

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, I was saying that the current economic environment is not favourable for Zambians because many of them have no capital investment. They lack equipment and cannot properly compete on a large scale in the current economy. The proposed Bill is encouraging active participation of the Government in the money market. The active participation of the Government in the money market, among other things, can cause what is called the crowding-out effect, which has many factors that destabilise an economy further. With the proposed Income Tax Bill, we are creating an atmosphere to suffocate the very economy we are supposed to save. How are we doing that? I first want to declare that the Income Tax Act and the Customs and Excise Act are always amended. So, the proposed Bill is rightly before Parliament, if we follow procedures. Whenever we introduce the Budget or a Supplementary Budget, it is one of the Acts that is affected. However, it is about how we go about –

 

Mr Sampa leaving the Assembly Chamber.

 

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Matero!

 

Are you knocking off? We still need your presence here.

 

Mr Sampa indicated dissent.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: Sorry, may the hon. Member for Chilubi, continue.

 

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, the issue is about how we go about the business that we conduct. Looking at the economic environment, the people who are likely to suffer are those investing in bonds, Treasury bills, and so on and so forth because we are talking about Government securities. The people who invest in Government securities are Zambians who have worked and have saved some money or those who may have gotten their gratuity or pension, so that they can be paid something in return. Then we bring in the withholding tax in the money market. The other people who invest in Government securities are those running Zambian-driven companies. Currently, Zambian-driven companies are suffocating due to, among other things, the energy crisis we are experiencing, which is affecting the production cost, which is then transferred to the consumer or the end-user of the products. This looks like a small issue, but it has a negative trickle-down effect that will make most of us suffer and pay, even when we are not involved in the money market per se.

 

Madam Speaker, when we look at the economic environment further, we will note that after the privatisation of 225 State-owned companies, Zambia lost the economic spine of State control. That step mainly left the Government with a regulatory role to play in the economy. This means that we do not even control much of what we have. Even when we come to this House and say that export volumes have increased by 16 per cent due to artisanal mining, we cannot account for it properly because the Government’s participation in the economy is very low. We have left the framework of the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC), which controls State-owned enterprises (SOEs) and can command certain key factors of the economy to transform the economy from a parasitic one to a productive one, to the wind. So, introducing such a Bill, especially when it comes to how we manage our policy rate, will kill the country more largely than we think. I know that a pen can change many things or a sentence can affect many things. However, the proposed amendment will affect more than what we can see because of the current state of our economic environment.

 

Madam Speaker, the people of Chilubi would have loved the tax base to be broadened to tap into areas of natural resources. For instance, how are we using our Mukula and gold? How is the Zambia Gold Company Limited (ZGCL) working? We were told the other day that it has been turned into an aggregator. The ZGCL is supposed to manage the mushrooming gold mines, which are not being controlled properly. We are now opting for measures that will suffocate the economy further because we have not realised and put a premium on the natural resources. So, we should put in place stringent measures within the radius or circumference of where we are seated, instead of looking at how else we can bring in the resources. We have water, mineral resources and other resources. I do not know why we cannot extend the many resources that we have, which are going into the wrong hands, to other areas where they are needed. Instead, we rush to participate in the money market, which causes a crowding effect.

 

Madam Speaker, the people of Chilubi would like to support the proposed Bill because it is legal, but with the observations that have been highlighted. I know that the Bill supports the Supplementary Budget that was passed, but it is not well seated where a villager from Chilubi is concerned.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Madam Speaker: The radius and circumference of where we are seated.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Kangombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, allow me to add a few comments to the debate on the report that has been submitted before this august House.

 

Madam Speaker, I will draw your attention to page 4 of the report, and I hope the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning referred to page 4. I wish to quote what paragraph 1 says so that I can bring everyone up to speed with what we are discussing today. On page 4, paragraph 1, the report reads:

 

“Moreover, given the prevailing tight monetary conditions and persistent inflationary pressures, stakeholders expressed concern that the proposed increase in withholding tax could further erode investor confidence. This is particularly worrying in light of declining subscription rates for Treasury Bills observed in the first half of 2024.”

 

Madam Speaker, that is what your Committee’s report is saying. It is saying that stakeholders who were invited to appear before your Committee regarding the issue of increasing the withholding tax from 15 per cent to 20 per cent expressed concern that once that is affected, we are going to have a challenge with the issue of subscription. In this case, subscription simply means that when the Government is looking for money, an announcement to buy Government securities is made and the public lends money to the Government to utilise it for public services.

 

Madam Speaker, in 2023, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning requested this Parliament to approve K15.5 billion for domestic borrowing, which means selling Government securities. In 2024, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning again requested this Parliament to approve domestic borrowing, which are Government securities, to the tune of K16.3 billion. This year, the hon. Minister again requested this Parliament to approve domestic borrowing, which are Government securities, to the tune of K15.4 billion. In short, this Government and the previous ones have been engaging in domestic borrowing through Government securities.

 

Madam Speaker, the report is saying that if we increase withholding tax from 15 per cent to 20 per cent, we will have a challenge. So, I am wondering what will happen because the subscription has already been low when we have used Government securities as an instrument for domestic borrowing. We use Government securities to raise money for the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, but he is now saying that we increase the withholding tax on Government securities.

 

Madam Speaker, in essence, on one hand, we are basically saying that we want revenue for providing public services, and that is on record of this Parliament, and, on the other hand, we are saying that we should increase the withholding tax on the same source of revenue. I expected the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to tell this Parliament the objectives that are intended to be achieved in this regard. If the intention is to raise money, the question I am asking the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is: How many citizens will be interested in providing money to the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) in the form of Government securities if they know that the return on that investment is low because of paying withholding tax? If that tax is now increased from 15 per cent to 20 per cent, automatically, those who have a bit of money will be reluctant to lend it to the BoZ. My understanding is that, on one hand, we want money, but, on the other hand, we are increasing the tax on that particular investment. We will not be able to achieve particular targets in terms of raising money in the domestic market.

 

Madam Speaker, the domestic market, which is the subject matter today, are Government securities. Why are we increasing taxation on Government securities when we want to raise money for the Supplementary Budget? At the same time, how will people be willing to put money in Government securities? Why should someone give money to the BoZ in the form of treasury bills for ninety days when they know that the returns have been reduced? I expected the hon. Minister to give us other options or means of raising money, other than increasing the withholding tax from 15 per cent to 20 per cent.

 

Madam Speaker, I want to remind the hon. Minister that in the old days, there used to be a discount rate on Government bonds. When you bid K400,000, the BoZ would give you a discount and you only paid K380,000. As a result, people used to make savings. The policy was changed by this Government to vary the terms on Government bonds. People now buy Government bonds without a discount, which means that when you invest K400,000, you will get back K400,000, plus the coupon that you get every six months. The terms were changed. I do not think that the terms on old Government bonds are affected. For those who invested fifteen years ago, the terms of the bonds have never been changed. I hope that this particular decision, which has been announced today by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, will not affect those who have already invested in Government bonds.

 

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, my submission is that it sounds very interesting that we want money from Government bonds, while the hon. Minister wants money from treasury bills, but he is adjusting the percentage on withholding Tax. That adjustment of withholding tax is removing the incentive for people to invest in Government securities. People decide to buy Government securities because there is a return on that investment. If that return has been reduced through the Government’s decision today, we are not going to raise the same money that we want to raise from the domestic market. The people of Kamfinsa, therefore, submit that we wish the hon. Minister would have given us alternatives to raise money for the Supplementary Budget.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to debate the subject that is on the Floor of the House, which is the Income Tax (Amendment) Bill No. 9 of 2025.

 

Madam Speaker, the Bill is aimed at increasing domestic revenue mobilisation, which is in tune with the hon. Minister’s pronouncement at the time he came to present the Budget. Hon. Members should relate each action that is now being undertaken to that pronouncement.

 

Madam Speaker, when Parliament is opening a new Session, there is always the President’s Speech. That speech is followed by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning’s Budget Speech. That gives direction to how the country and economy will be run. If we read the hon. Minister’s speech at the outset of this Session of Parliament, we will notice that there was emphasis on domestic revenue mobilisation. So, the fiscal policy adjustments being made now are aimed at achieving the objective that was set from the outset. That is why this Bill aims at increasing withholding tax from 15 per cent to 20 per cent on Government securities.

 

Madam Speaker, for those who might not understand what Government securities are, these are the tools that the Government uses to raise funds from the public and investors, including ourselves. The Government securities are in the form of bonds, treasury bills or any other tool that the Government would want to use to raise finances. They are actually on the market and we can simply go and buy after making an assessment. So, the issue of subscription should not even be up for debate at the moment because we have always met our target.

 

Madam Speaker, I think that when the hon. Minister presented this Bill, he did not have in mind the issues of undersubscribed the securities will be or how the outcome will be. His focus is actually on raising finances from the very coupon we are talking about, which is the interest that the investors will earn so that they contribute a fair share to help grow our economy. The better our economy is, the better the situation will be for all of us, including the investors. That is why this initiative is important.

 

Madam Speaker, let me look at the objectives of the Bill. The second objective is the introduction of a minimum alternative tax at the rate of 1 per cent. This is a very splendid initiative to curb tax avoidance, which has been rampant in the country –

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours. 

 

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER

 

SUBMISSION OF TWO SITES FOR PIPED WATER SCHEME SITES

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, you will recall that on Friday, 4^th July, 2025, I informed the House that the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation had mobilised resources to support the construction of one piped water scheme in each constituency.

 

In this regard, each hon. Member was requested to submit two proposed sites from within their constituencies, including global positioning system (GPS) co-ordinates …

 

Hon. Members: GPS!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: … for consideration.

 

However, I have been reliably informed that the response to this very important call to action has been extremely low. I, therefore, wish to remind all hon. Members who have not yet submitted their two proposed sites to quickly do so and allow the ministry to effectively carry out this project without delay.

 

Your submissions should reach the ministry on or before Friday, 18^th July, 2025, to facilitate the timely implementation of the project.

 

I thank you.

 

REVIEW OF RULING ON A POINT OF ORDER

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members will recall that on Wednesday, 9^th July, 2025, while the Report of the Committee on Cabinet Affairs was under consideration and Mr Mutotwe Kafwaya, the hon. Member of Parliament for Lunte, was on the Floor, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mwandi, Ms Sibeso Sefulo, MP, raised a point of order inquiring whether the hon. Member of Parliament for Lunte was in order to proceed in the manner that he was debating.

 

In making the ruling on the point of order I, by mistake, ruled that the hon. Member for Mwandi was out of order. However, I wish to inform the House that that was by mistake and I intended to rule that the hon. Member of Parliament for Lunte was out of order.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: In this regard, I direct that the reference to the hon. Member for Mwandi as being out of order be removed from the record. In its place, the ruling should be that the hon. Member of Parliament for Lunte was out of order.

 

I thank you.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

______

 

BILLS

 

SECOND READINGS

 

INCOME TAX (Amendment) BILL, 2025

 

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me to continue with my debate.

 

Madam Speaker, when business was suspended, I was going through the objects of the Bill, and I had comprehensively dealt with the first object of the Bill. Officially, the Bill has three objects. Substantially, there are two objects of the Bill. The first one is the increase in the withholding tax from 15 per cent to 20 per cent on Government securities, and I comprehensively dealt with that in my debate a few minutes ago.

 

Madam Speaker, I now move to the introduction of a minimum alternative tax at the rate of 1 per cent to counter tax avoidance. I was just about to mention that this is aimed at ensuring that everyone participates in paying tax. If everyone involved in business, in whatever form, pays tax, it means that we will be able to grow our economy and provide all the necessities that the Government is supposed to provide, including social services.

 

Madam Speaker, I now proceed to give accolades to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for these very good fiscal policy initiatives. Of course, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning has been given the responsibility of coming up with the fiscal policies that will help the country to progress, and this is one of them. We have always lamented broadening the tax base; these are some of the initiatives that the hon. Minister has brought to broaden the tax base. In any case, these initiatives do not injure investments so much. We are only asking everyone to participate in paying taxes. I know that the Committee has brought in the issue of discouraging investment, but every measure that is put in place brings risks and gains. So, for me, the hon. Minister conducted a risk analysis when coming up with the measures. He is entitled to come up with these measures as he is the one who drives the fiscal policy.

 

Madam Speaker, my hon. Colleagues who debated before me lamented the tax adjustments that the hon. Minister has come up with. However, the adjustments are in line with the pronouncements that the hon. Minister made at the outset when he presented the Budget for this year. We need to relate the subsequent activities during the fiscal year to the pronouncements that were made at the outset, because they are in tandem with the themes in his speech to the House and to the nation. So, we need to give him support.

 

Madam Speaker, I beg to differ with the report of the Committee on consultation. The report has asked whether the hon. Minister consulted adequately before coming up with the Minimum Alternative Tax (MAT). I think that the hon. Minister does not need to consult widely to make such decisions because such decisions are his preserve. I do not think there is any provision in our laws that stipulates that the hon. Minister must undertake wide consultations to implement fiscal policy. That is not there. We have given the ministry the powers to implement fiscal policy, and this is part of the decisions the ministry has made. So, let the hon. Minister carry out his work and let us wait for the results.

 

Madam Speaker, for the doomsayers who seem to think that the adjustment on withholding tax will cause under-subscription to Government securities, let us wait and see. We float Government securities. Let us wait for that under-subscription. The question is about increasing domestic revenue mobilisation, not about how Government securities will be undersubscribed or oversubscribed. That is what settles the question, and that is what is in the report.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the voice of the people of Chama South this opportunity to comment on the debate on the Income Tax (Amendment) Bill.

 

Madam Speaker, let me state from the outset that I support the Bill because it clearly outlines the minimum alternative tax (MAT). The reason that the hon. Minister has given is to diversify the tax base, and to ensure that tax avoidance is addressed. The question is: What is tax avoidance? I know others have lamented that this Bill will affect investors. Who are those investors who will be affected? The hon. Minister has further proposed an increase on a tax related to Government securities from 15 per cent to 20 per cent. The doomsayers say that this will affect subscription to Government securities. The question that I want to ask the people of Zambia is: Is that not a good move? What if it is a measure to ensure that the Government does not attract too much borrowing from the public? If one looks at Government securities, they tend to be secure and almost everyone who has the money subscribes. I can bet that in most cases, 98 per cent are probably not ordinary Zambian citizens. The ministry’s intention, from my understanding, is to get a bit from those who have extra money so that it can re-invest that money into the needy areas of Kalabo, Liuwa and Chama South, for example. This is a move that we all ought to support.

 

Madam Speaker, tax avoidance is a complex subject. It is not done by ordinary citizens, but the same people who oppose these amendments. The Committee employed tax experts to check the mines that have come up with mechanisms of tax avoidance. By the way, tax avoidance is legal. It is not tax evasion, and most businesses thrive on coming up with ways to avoid paying taxes, and that is what the ministry wants to address.

 

Madam Speaker, Zambia is party to the United Nations (UN) General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT). That means that we are regulated in the manner we impose taxes. I do not believe that the ministry can come up with a tax that is in conflict with the law that the hon. Minister is proposing. We know that this country has been bleeding when it comes to revenue mobilisation because of tax avoidance mechanisms, which are highly technical. Let me admit that this is one reason I like President Hakainde Hichilema and his team.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, they know how technical things are done, and this is one of the moves that the ministry has put in place. For our hon. Colleagues who have said that this will affect domestic borrowing, let us wait and see. Which other investment instruments are more attractive and secure than Government Treasury bills and bonds? That is the reason the Government is introducing this tax. This is a good move. We cannot continue on the path of not innovating tax collection when businesses are ever innovating how to avoid taxes. When businesses innovate how to avoid taxes, the Government also needs to innovate how to catch and make them pay. This is one way it should be done. I only wish and pray that such innovations spiral into other sectors of our economy.

 

Madam Speaker, why do we not complain about the pay-as-you-earn (PAYE) tax, which ordinary citizens pay? In this Bill, the Government is asking the banks to pay. We have seen in newspaper articles that the boards of banks declare billions of Kwacha in profit. Why can we not also get something out of that so that we support our social sectors, particularly, our recurrent expenditure? We all cry about employing more teachers. I know this Government has done much in a short period, but more has to be done.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has my support in ensuring that everyone contributes to the basket of this nation. In other countries, tax is non-negotiable. Even for us, as foreigners, when we land in countries like China, and we jump into a taxi, before it starts moving, there is an emergency tax that is printed. It is non-negotiable. Why do people want to start protecting investors? They will not go anywhere because this country has favourable investments to give them returns. It is just fair that our Government gets something to ensure that it supports the needs of both our social and economic sectors.

 

Madam Speaker, with those few remarks, I would like to urge the hon. Minister, including the President, to remain focused.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, first of all, I would like to thank the Committee for its work. The chairperson of the Committee was very clear regarding the proposals being supported. I would also like to thank the hon. Members who have debated and rendered their support to the Bill such as Hon. Kambita, Hon. Mung’andu and, of course, I also recognise those who spoke against it.

 

Madam Speaker, in responding to the issues that have been brought out, let me tackle this in two ways. First of all, because of some of the statements that were made earlier, let me remind us why we had to come back and introduce a Supplementary Budget.

 

Madam Speaker, a Supplementary Budget became necessary because we have to deal with debts, and most of them were left behind by the same hon. Colleagues who are complaining today but that is fine. It is time to pay for the fuel they brought into this country that we consumed but did not pay for. There is no donor who will come here and volunteer to settle the fuel debts on our behalf. No. We have to pay because we are the ones who consumed the fuel. However, as we pay, we have to be mindful of the fact that we have to maintain some of the commitments that we have made to our people, even when conditions are hard. As we pay the debt, we must make sure that free education continues, and we continue releasing the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and hiring teachers. There is no negotiation on that. So, we will not pay debts so that we can stop releasing the CDF or hiring teachers. No. Those must continue, hence the need for us to find more money.

 

Madam Speaker, issues have been raised concerning the Minimum Alternate Tax.  I have been in this House for many years, and year after year, our colleagues say that those of us who are in the formal sector are overtaxed, and so we should also bring in the informal sector to contribute. For example, why is it that a teacher or doctor earning K10,000 per month must pay tax, but I, who is running a business of selling beans or beer in a tavern somewhere and earns K20,000 per month, must not pay tax because I am doing an informal business? Where is the justification in that? So, this Bill on the Floor is just to say that even those in the informal sector must contribute. It is only a contribution of 1 per cent.  They must contribute because they also use roads, go to hospitals, and have children in schools. After all, they get more money from their businesses than what a teacher or doctor earns. That is what this Bill is proposing.

 

Madam Speaker, we are also saying that if one is a registered taxpayer, and has been contributing 1 per cent, when it is time for one to pay the final tax, one will tell the tax man that, “My tax bill is, say, K20,000, but I already paid the Minimum Alternate Tax, which is K3,000. Therefore, we must adjust the final tax that I am supposed to pay. Instead of paying K20,000, I will take out the K3,000 that I paid as Minimum Alternate Tax, and so K17,000 is what I will pay.”

 

So, if you are a registered taxpayer, you have little to worry about because you can claim this money as you do your final books. However, if you have been selling beans or kapenta, and have never paid taxes, and you do not declare, you have to pay. That is what it means. The good thing is that the Government is not squandering the money it is collecting. No. This is the money that is used to drill boreholes, build classrooms and clinics for us. So, the same money that Zambians are paying, the Government is taking it back to them in the form of development. Who should be worried about that? Remember, the days of the donors are gone. Now, we must take money out of our own pockets, and this is the way it should be.

 

Madam Speaker, there was also an issue of tax on the Treasury bills and bonds. There was an argument that the Treasury bills will no longer be attractive. Let me tell my colleagues that Treasury bills and Treasury securities are very attractive and, perhaps, a more secure type of business than many of us think. Why do I say that? If I retired today and were given K1 million, I may decide to invest the money in Treasury bills, or farming. After working around the numbers, and getting convinced that I would earn more money if I invested my money into farming, I then invest my money into farming while my friends invest their money in Treasury bills. I, who has gone into farming, before I realise it, there is a drought or armyworms set in. Similarly, I decide to rear chickens, convinced that I would earn a lot of money, but before I realise, thieves come in. They start putting eggs in the pockets and all types of things. In the end, I will not earn what I thought I was going to earn. However, when one invests in Treasury securities, one is 100 per cent sure that the income that one expected to make is exactly what will be earned. No worries about electricity, water supply and thieves; one will get everything. So, Treasury bills still remain a very competitive investment and I urge many of us, when we get our entitlements, to consider this benefit. Somebody said that we are going to lose customers, and people will shun away because in 2024, we saw participation go down. That was 2024, have they looked at 2025? In 2025, that kind of problem does not exist. So, please, update yourselves.

 

Madam Speaker, with that, once again, I want to thank the Committee for the support and I beg to move.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Siachisumo was about to leave the Assembly Chamber.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Lufwanyama!

 

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

 

 

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

 

Committee on Tuesday, 23^rd July, 2025.

 

THE CUSTOMS AND EXCISE (Amendment) BILL, 2025

 

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

 

Madam Speaker, the Bill before this House is principally seeking to amend the Customs and Excise Act so as to:

 

1. revise the rates of Customs and Excise Duty payable on certain goods;

 

1. introduce a 10 per cent Excise Duty on betting; and

 

1. provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

 

 Madam Speaker, this Bill is straightforward and I recommend it to the House.

 

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

 

Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Floor of the House and to present the highlights contained in the report of the Planning and Budgeting Committee on its consideration of the Customs and Excise (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2025.

 

 Madam Speaker, the House will recall that following the presentation of the Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure No. 1 of 2025, the Government laid before this House the Customs and Excise (Amendment) Bill, 2025 with the objective of revising the rates of Customs and Excise Duty on selected goods and services, introducing new levies to align taxation with emerging economic activities and updating relevant definitions and administrative provisions under the Customs and Excise Act.

 

 Madam Speaker, in accordance with Order No. 204(4) of the National Assembly Standing Orders, 2024, your Committee scrutinised the Bill. To this effect, your Committee invited some stakeholders, including Government institutions, professional bodies, industry players and associations, to provide both written and oral submissions. Their views significantly informed your Committee’s deliberations.

 

 Madam Speaker, let me state from the outset that the Committee supports the Customs and Excise (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2025. However, your Committee also wishes to highlight critical concerns and observations, which must be addressed to ensure that the intended revenue gains do not come at the expense of economic stability or social wellbeing

 

Madam Speaker, the Committee notes the proposed introduction of a 10 per cent Excise Duty on betting services. From the interaction with the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, it is clear that the measure aims at achieving two major objectives; raising additional revenue and discouraging gambling, particularly among youths. While the aim of expanding the tax base is commendable, the Committee is also concerned that this measure was brought back without the benefit of an independent impact assessment, despite having been withdrawn in 2024 for that very reason. The Kenyan experience, where a similar tax on betting stakes led to revenue decline and market disruption, serves as a good example.

 

Madam Speaker, the Committee recommends that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning undertakes a detailed study before implementing the tax. Further, the Committee calls on the ministry and the Zambian Revenue Authority (ZRA) to engage stakeholders in the betting and gaming industry to develop a more sustainable revenue-based taxation model that protects jobs, industry viability and regulatory integrity.

 

 Madam Speaker, on the proposed Excise Duty increase on clear beer and spirits, the Committee observes that the abrupt and significant hike, such as increasing the duty on clear beer from 40 per cent to 50 per cent and on spirits from 60 per cent to 80 per cent, risks encouraging the consumption of illicit alcohol. This could erode the tax base, threaten public health and undermine formal sector employment. Your Committee, therefore, recommends a gradual implementation of the duty increase on clear beer, starting with the retention of the 40 per cent rate in 2025, and progressive increments thereafter.

 

Madam Speaker, your Committee is also concerned about the frequent and unco-ordinated increases in the Excise Duty on cigarettes. The mid-year upward revision from K462 to K750 per mille, coming shortly after a previous increase in January, 2025, may create uncertainty and foster illicit trade. This, in turn, undermines both revenue correction and public health objectives. The Committee strongly urges the Government to uphold tax predictability and avoid mid-year policy reversals.

 

 Madam Speaker, your Committee acknowledges the overall objective of the Bill, which is to enhance domestic resource mobilisation and also align taxation with evolving economic realities. Nonetheless, your Committee stresses the need for fiscal measures to be gradual, evidence-driven and sensitive to sectoral dynamics. Tax policies should promote predictability, support compliance and avoid stifling private sector growth or eroding the formal tax base.

 

 In conclusion, Madam Speaker, the Committee supports the Customs and Excise (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2025, subject to the observations and recommendations contained in its report.

 

Madam Speaker, allow me to thank you and the Office of the Clerk for the guidance and support rendered to your Committee during its work. I also wish to express your Committee’s sincere gratitude to all stakeholders who made submissions that enriched our deliberations.

 

 Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Ms Sefulo (Mwandi): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for the opportunity to debate the Committee’s report.

 

Madam Speaker, let me begin by saying that the people of Mwandi are in support of the report. I will open my debate by going straight to the issue of betting and speak about the dangers it poses and what the Government has put in place to act as a deterrent.

 

Madam Speaker, just days ago, we sat in this House and debated the debt swap. Let me say that some debts are brought about because of betting. Some people go to the extent of getting loans by pledging everything they earn to use the money for betting. When they bet and lose, they go and borrow and bet again and lose again. When that happens, some people commit suicide. People who bet their money end up committing suicide after losing.

 

Madam Speaker, a responsible Government that detects dangers that come with betting should introduce deterrents. In the past, paying tax on betting was only restricted to those who won. Does someone who walks into a bar only pay tax after getting drunk?

 

Hon. Government Members: No!

 

Ms Sefulo: The moment one enters a bar, one starts paying tax. Similarly, when it comes to betting, people should pay tax the moment they place a bet. That measure would be a deterrent to children who are now substituting hard work for betting.

 

Madam Speaker, when I was growing up, there were not many betting opportunities. Today, everywhere you go, there are betting machines. As things stand now, every little corner shop has a betting slot machine. That is encouraging children to substitute work for betting because they are thinking that there is life in betting. Wealth gained hastily will dwindle. We should, therefore, encourage children to work hard.

 

Madam Speaker, betting also has a very negative impact on family values. Irresponsible parents have turned to that vice and they are failing to support their families because everything they earn goes to betting. Marriages and families have broken down because of betting. Betting is not a good thing. Therefore, I am in support of the proposal to introduce 10 per cent excise duty on betting as a deterrent against the vice. Every loving Zambian out there should support the tax that is being introduced on betting. For instance, parents have sent children to universities or schools with school fees, but then the children took the money and used it for betting. What happened next? We have seen children commit suicide because the money that they were given for school fees was used for betting. So, this vice is very dangerous.

 

Madam Speaker, let me look at what happens in other jurisdictions. When you go to developed countries, you will find that tax levied on betting is between 20 per cent and 24 per cent because they understand the dangers associated with betting. Betting in our country is on the rise. Four or five years ago, betting was not as common as it is today. I understand that there are families surviving on betting, but I also understand the dangers it poses to society. Therefore, it is the Government’s responsibility to introduce the tax on betting as a deterrent. A few days ago, I was supporting the Supplementary Budget. I also understand that there is a linkage between the Supplementary Budget and where the money for the Budget will come from.

 

Madam Speaker, in supporting the Bill, I am saying that the 10 per cent tax on betting services is very minimal. As a developing country, we have to invest in hard work. I am of the view that we need to tax the betting sector even more because of the dangers that it poses.

 

With that said, Madam Speaker, I am in full support of the 10 per cent tax on betting services.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi): Thank you so much, Madam Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to speak on behalf of the people of Itezhi-Tezhi on this emotive issue.

 

Madam Speaker, from the outset, I want to indicate that on behalf of the people of Itezhi-Tezhi, I support the 10 per cent tax. My debate will be very focused on tobacco.

 

 Madam Speaker, most of us here are Christians. When we read the Bible in Corinthians Chapter 6, verse 19, we see that there is a very serious issue –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

 

You are not allowed to quote the Bible. Just go straight into your debate.

 

Mr Mutinta: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker, let me mention that the issue is also supported by some books. We need to look at what we put in our bodies; putting harmful things in our bodies is discouraged. I do not know why some people who are religious have not supported the decision that the Government has made. I believe that the three taxes which have been proposed by the Government are defined as ‘sin’ taxes. These are taxes that are placed on things perceived to be harmful to citizens.  I can see that the hon. Minister of Tourism is smiling. If we increase the tax on tobacco, we are going to reduce the number of youths who indulge in smoking. You know what is happening in our communities or compounds. When you go to Chainama Hills Mental Hospital today, you will see that youths do not only smoke cigarettes but also smoke dagga. Go and see the records at the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC). The hon. Member for Kanyama is here as a first-hand witness.

 

Mr Chinkuli: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mutinta: Madam Speaker, we need these taxes as a deterrent against smoking, a culture that is harmful to our children. Right now, if you look at issues around cancer or heart diseases –

 

Mr Chinkuli rose.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Kanyama, please, resume your seat until you are called upon.

 

What is your point of order?

 

 Mr Chinkuli: Madam Speaker, my point of order is on the hon. Member who is debating on the Floor of this House.

 

Madam Speaker, our rules here have been designed nicely, and one of them is that we do not talk about ourselves. Is the hon. Member in order to mention names in his debate?

 

I need your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Which Standing Order has been breached? What Standing Order are you referring to?

 

Mr Chinkuli: Standing Order No. 71, Madam Speaker.

 

Laughter

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member on the Floor, please, we do not debate ourselves. So, kindly just focus on the content of the report.

 

Mr Mutinta: Thank you for the guidance, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker, I withdraw what I said if it was misunderstood. I was referring to a constituency where there have been many cases of smoking.

 

Madam Speaker, I was saying –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, sorry, did you mention the hon. Member for Kanyama, or you just mentioned Kanyama?

 

Mr Mutinta: I said Kanyama.

 

Mr Chinkuli: Ah.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: No. Then the hon. Member for Kanyama was out of order because the hon. Member for Itezhi-Tezhi did not mention his name.

 

Mr Mutinta: Hear, hear!

 

Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the guidance.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You may continue, hon. Member.

 

 Mr Mutinta: Madam Speaker, I also referred to Itezhi-Tezhi, which has many cases of young people smoking. Many other constituencies like Mwandi also have many young people who indulge in smoking. So, I feel that the tax on tobacco will not only bring economic benefits but also act as a deterrent against smoking for many young people. As a country, we are spending a high amount in our health budget as a result of smoking. Today, if you went to the National Heart Hospital and many other hospitals, you would find that the Government is spending quite a lot of money treating diseases caused by smoking. So, I strongly feel that the tax on tobacco is very good and we need to increase it. In other countries, the tax on tobacco is even higher because it acts as a deterrent against smoking for many young people. I strongly believe that if the tax is implemented, we are going to save a lot of resources in our hospitals. Many diseases are caused by smoking. So, the medicines, the health staff and many other resources that the Government is using to treat diseases that are self-inflicted by smoking habits can be used to treat other diseases.

 

 Madam Speaker, I also want to mention that the chairperson of the Committee indicated that although the Committee supports the tax, it has advised the Government to go back to the drawing board and have further consultations on the matter. It is only logical that the tobacco industry does not support an increase in tax; it is just common sense. No industry can support a tax imposed on it. Therefore, the Government has to make the decision, and it is not negotiable. We need to increase the tax. Moreover, in its report, the Committee has also mentioned that increasing the tax on tobacco will encourage illicit tobacco trade. However, if you research properly, you will discover that about 10.1 per cent of tobacco trade is already illicit. Illicit tobacco trade is already happening, so I do not think that further consultation is going to cure anything. So, really, we need the money for the Supplementary Budget of K33.6 billion.  

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister laboured to mention that we need roads in our communities. The people of Itezhi-tezhi need the D769 road. We have no road. That is where we will draw the money. The people of Mwandi need clinics. We need network towers. People demand many services from the Government, but they do not ask about where the resources will come from.

 

Madam Speaker, I am in full support of this Motion. The people of Itezhi-tezhi support these sinful taxes. We fully support the passing of the K33 billion Supplementary Budget. I also recommend that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning ensures that the taxes are implemented so that we can broaden our tax base for the benefit of the many social services that are required to move this country.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, as usual, the Bill is rightly seated because we are dealing with the Supplementary Budget. I support the Motion to adopt the Bill because there is nothing I can do. However, I have the following observations. The report we are discussing emanates from the Customs and Excise Act, Cap 322 of the laws of Zambia. Among other things, the Act tackles importation of goods, customs carriers, exportation of goods, warehousing of goods, tax-free zones and ordinary duties, and dumping duties and tariff clarification of goods.

 

Madam Speaker, this report targets emerging economic activities, which, from my point of view, are mainly betting alcoholic as well as non-alcoholic beverages. Before I go further, I would like to say that the details that are in the second and fourth schedules of the Bill are the ones we are supposed to scrutinise properly because they will determine whether the Government will get the intended revenue or there will be some backlash from the economy. I am in support of the people who have talked about the social objective of the Bill, which is to safeguard the lives of young people. At the entrance of Parliament premises, there is a billboard on a health-related Tobacco Bill, but this Parliament passed the Tobacco Control Bill, which, I think, was promoted by the hon. Minister of Agriculture. In some way, we are contradicting ourselves as long as we have not brought a tobacco-related health Bill to this House, and if we say that the main objective is to safeguard and protect the young people. In any case, for young people to arrive at such a station, it is because of life's frustrations, among them, youth unemployment.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

 

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, the Customs and Excise (Amendment) Bill, as it has been proposed in the report, responds to emerging economic activities, but those emerging economic activities, in reference to this Bill, are fruit juice; non-alcoholic beverages, tobacco and alcoholic beverages, specifically wines, as the targets. Looking at the amendments in the second schedule, they detail the increase in the excise duty from K1 to K2 on sugary drinks. That may sound very small, but it is a hundred per cent increase. I am a consumer of fruit juices, and I have seen how the price index of these things has been skyrocketing. If I tell you what the prices were in January and today, you would see that it is a sorry sight. As we target alcohol, tobacco and other factors, somehow, we may harvest results that may not be there because of what we may ­

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Fube: Ah! This hon. Minister.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

 

Continue, hon. Member for Chilubi.

 

Mr Fube: Why can he not stand and debate instead of correcting my dialect?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chilubi, please, continue. I am listening.

 

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, when we look at these factors, we are looking at encouraging growth and among others, but we have over-emphasised the social effect. Instead of getting more revenue, we may find that the volume of sales drops, and the Government’s intended revenue may not be achieved.

 

Madam Speaker, allow me to talk about the digital and gaming economy. I think, I am more interested in what this report matches with, which is –

 

Mr Nkandu interjected.

 

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, can I be protected from these charlatans?

 

Madam First, Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

 

 Please, let us not debate while seated.

 

Hon. Member for Chilubi, please, continue.

 

Mr Nkandu interjected.

 

Mr Fube: Finshi mwaishiba ba Nkandu, naimwe?

 

Madam Speaker, what I was trying to talk about before I was distracted is Section 139 (d) of the Customs and Excise (amendment) Bill, 2025, which has provisions on airtime, but it does not mention the word ‘data’. The word ‘data’, in some way, would have captured bundles and many other factors. This factor is going to push the cost to the consumer because of under-declarations. Currently, there are nothing like Zamtel controlling the gateway because everything has been digitalised. If we are not controlling any gateway, it means that the ones who will know how much talk time is lost, sold or received, even the bets, are the service providers. If the service provider is in that cushion, they can play with the statistics and even under-declare to the Government, meaning that we may not get what we desire.

 

Madam Speaker, I agree with my hon. Friends who have talked about young people who are involved in betting, gambling and other vices. Betting is not something I promote, even at a personal level. When we look at the factors in the Bill, this particular one targets betting stakes rather than gross profits or gross gaming revenue. In this case, one realises that the profits that those who bet get are low, for instance, betting profits are between 10 per cent to 15 per cent while others get 2 per cent to 3.5 per cent. So, when we target such measures, especially as we intend to harvest the revenues, we need to look at the statistics properly to see how they fit into our economic map. Otherwise, we will be trying to get revenue yet, at the end of the day, get a different result like discouraging players on the market.

 

Madam Speaker, with those few words, I would like to put it on record that I do not to support tobacco smoking. I want that Bill to come to Parliament so that …

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

Mr Fube: …it can fight with what Hon. Mtolo brought.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Your time is up, hon. Member for Chilubi.

 

Hon. Member, you brought out a word, “gital” economy. Can you, please, tell us what it is all about before you resume your seat?

 

Mr Fube: The what?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: There was a word you mentioned.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Fube: I said digital economy.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Oh, okay.

 

Mr Fube: Yes!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: It sounded different.

 

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, I am a Bisa …

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Fube: … and I do not care about this heckling.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Okay. That is enough. We got it. It is digital economy.

 

Thank you.

 

Mr Chinkuli (Kanyama): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the people of Kanyama the opportunity to add their voice to the debate on the Floor of the House.

 

Madam Speaker, I will dwell on certain concerns arising from the report. There are complaints that the increase in taxes will affect the economy. Before the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning comes up with tariffs that need to be increased, he first carries out wider consultations, including benchmarking from outside. So, stating that an increase in taxes will jeopardise our jobs, or whatever negative effects arising from the report, is probably a lack of understanding.

 

Madam Speaker, one of the many functions of the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA), in particular customs, is to protect the local manufacturers. How does it work? We realise that some imported goods tend to be so cheap such that our locally manufactured goods may not even match up, or have a level playing field on the market. So, increasing taxes on imported commodities means that when goods land in the country, taxes will be paid and other taxes will be brought into account. This will move the price of that imported item higher, and give an advantage to the locally produced goods.

 

Madam Speaker, the proposal to increase tax tariffs on certain commodities acts as a deterrent measure. For example, when the price of beverages and cigarettes that people are talking about is increased to a level that an average person cannot afford, will they still buy? No, they will not. However, this creates another challenge.

 

Madam Speaker, let us not forget that each time we increase tax tariffs, the illicit world also wakes up to take advantage of the market. I will talk from what we experienced. When tariffs are increased, smugglers take advantage of that. They import the same items using unregulated routes of entry. As a result, the component that would have pushed the price up is not there, and that has a negative effect on those who are registered to operate those businesses. So, it is incumbent upon the Government, as it intends to increase the tariffs, to protect those who are legally registered to provide services. Let us ensure that our borders are well protected. Let us also ensure that our staff in border areas, including the ZRA staff, have technical know-how on how to curb smugglers and detect items coming into the country. They should be allowed to have workshops so that they can be up to date with whatever is happening. If all this is left unchecked, the concept of protecting the local manufacturers will not be achieved.

 

Madam Speaker, the final issue that I want to air out is that tax issues are somehow complex, and I understand that. We are talking about tax broadening, where we want to bring in a number of those who are not registered and who are dealing with taxable goods on board so that the revenue base is broadened. Let us identify those entities where we will be able to tap in and get those revenues. The challenge that is there is that if we keep on having the same number of taxpayers, we will end up choking them by taxing them heavily. At the end of the day, one realises that the economic growth that we intend to achieve will not be achieved.

 

Madam Speaker, with those few remarks, I submit.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Chama South is not in the House. The last two hon. Members who will debate will be the hon. Member for Kanchibiya Constituency and the hon. Member for Zambezi East Constituency.

 

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, I want to place on record that we support the sin taxes brought out by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. We wish to congratulate him on that. That is the way to go.

 

Madam Speaker, not long ago, the House passed a resolution to regulate betting for so many reasons. However, one of the reasons is that the betting industry is now a billion Kwacha industry. It is an industry that has grown. It is no longer in its infancy. If we just look at this particular industry without introducing these taxes, we will deprive ourselves of the much-needed revenue for us to continue propelling the wheels of development, as has already been alluded to by colleagues who debated before me. So, we support these taxes, for example, the sin tax on beer, spirits, cigarettes, as well as on betting and betting services. This is very important, and I will be very brief.

 

Madam Speaker, when we look at the social ills emanating from these particular sectors, we realise that we need to balance and ease the burden of the Government in attending to the offshoots of cigarettes, for example, cancer and everything that comes out of it. Coming to betting and the issues that come out of it, this targets the vulnerable populations, students, the unemployed and so on and so forth. For us, this also just goes to align with regional and international trends. Countries on the continent of Africa, like Kenya, Uganda and South Africa, have raised their betting and gambling taxes, in order to generate revenue and curb harmful behaviour. So, this is the right way to go, and I just want to place on record that the people of Kanchibiya support the Bill the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has presented to the House. I think, this is the way to go.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, in the interest of time, I will follow suit, and will be as brief as possible, except that I want to take this opportunity to explain a few things so that we understand the Bill that we are passing right now.

 

 Madam Speaker, first of all, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Customs and Excise (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2025. In supporting the Bill, I would like to take a look at the object of the Bill, which aims at adjusting the customs and excise duty on selected goods and services, which are meant to simply provide leisure. The hon. Minister is on terra firma to target those goods.

 

Madam Speaker, when you want to rate the performance of an hon. Minister, like the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, you should look at how efficiently he implements his fiscal policy. You can rate what he has suggested after seeing the reaction of the consumers of those goods and services. There is what they call as tax inefficiency or tax efficiency. For you to know whether the tax is efficient or inefficient, you have to look at the behaviour of the people affected by that tax. Usually, goods that provide leisure, like alcohol and tobacco, are the ones that are tax inefficient because consumers will still consume them whether the tax is increased or not. There could be issues of addiction, but, all in all, they are leisure products. In any case, it does not matter whether somebody consumes such products or not.

 

Madam Speaker, as regards the claim that the proposed tax adjustments will hurt the economy, I think that is far-fetched because what would hurt the economy is for us to not collect tax because the most important things would be affected if we start caring about things that do not actually affect our wellbeing. What we should care about is collecting tax, which will be used to finance the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and bridging the gaps created by the withdrawal of some aid that we previously enjoyed. So, it is very important for us to implement tax changes by targeting goods and services that merely provide leisure.

 

Madam Speaker, I support the Bill because the targeted goods and services are the prime ones in any jurisdiction when it comes to increasing tax. I have noted that there is a proposed increase on spirits, wines and ethanol from 60 per cent to 80 per cent. That is the way it should be because, honestly speaking, at the end of the day, that does not affect our lives so much. It would affect our lives if we were into doing things for the sake of doing them. In this case, however, it is being done in order to finance the Budget, whose objective is to ensure the wellbeing of everyone.

 

Madam Speaker, I have seen that the issue of betting will also be affected. Other hon. Members who have debated before me have ably highlighted the dangers of betting. It should be noted that this is about gaming at the end of the day. So, adjusting the tax regime around betting or gaming is the right way to go because that is about leisure. It is a service for providing leisure, although some people take it as income and business. There are many other business avenues one can get into. The avenue in question is for gaming and the name speaks for itself. So, the hon. Minister is on terra firma to actually target that area of services so that the sector can also contribute to the National Treasury. In any case, an active hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning looks for opportunities to broaden the tax base. Therefore, the opportunities to broaden the tax base are the same ones he is suggesting.

 

Madam Speaker, I would have been very impressed if any of those opposed to the tax measures being proposed had suggested other initiatives or avenues to broaden the tax base. I would like to mention to hon. Members that let us give ourselves homework and start to actively think about other measures that can help the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning broaden the tax base because that is where the catch is. If there are measures that we can suggest, the forum is here. We can even, probably, do that during the session that is usually abused; Urgent Matters without Notice. We can abuse that period to bring in suggestions that will help the hon. Minister to broaden the tax base. If we broaden the tax base, we will definitely have enough revenue to finance all our wishes, including things like constructing the Lundazi Road and other pending projects. It is all about collecting more tax. So, it is initiatives such as the ones being proposed that will help us get the required revenue to implement Government policies.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I wish to thank the House for the support.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

 

Committed to a committee of the Whole House. 

 

Committee on Tuesday, 23^rd July, 2025.

 

_______

 

MOTION

 

ADJOURNMENT

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

 

Question put and agreed to.

 

_______

 

The House adjourned at 1216 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 15^th July, 2025.

 

____________