Friday, 4th July, 2025

Friday, 4^thJuly, 2025

The House met at 0900 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM SPEAKER

PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM ELIANA TRUST SCHOOL

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence in the Public Gallery of pupils and teachers from Eliana Trust School.

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM KINGDOM HERITAGE MODEL SCHOOL

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence in the Public Gallery of pupils and teachers from Kingdom Heritage Model School.

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

RESOURCES TO SUPPORT THE CONSTRUCTION OF ONE PIPED WATER SCHEME IN EACH CONSTITUENCY

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation has mobilised resources to support the construction of one piped water scheme in each constituency.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: The initiative is aimed at enhancing access to clean and safe drinking water across the country. In this regard, the ministry is requesting each hon. Member to submit two proposed sites in their constituencies, including global positioning system (GPS) co-ordinates, for consideration. Following the necessary technical assessment, one site will be selected for the construction of the water scheme. Hon. Members are urged to make their submissions to the ministry on or before Friday, 18^th July, 2025, to facilitate timely implementation of the project.

I thank you.

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BUSINESS STATEMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the House Business Committee met on Thursday, 3^rd July, 2025, to determine and schedule Business of the House for the period 9^th July, 2025, to 18^th July, 2025.

Madam Speaker, the House Business Committee resolved to lay before the House the following business for consideration in the next two weeks:

Announcements

The Hon. Madam Speaker may make announcements, if there will be any.

Rulings

The Hon. Madam Speaker will render rulings, if there will be any.

Ministerial Statements

Hon. Ministers will render Ministerial Statements on topical issues, if there will be any.

Bills

The Bills listed hereunder will be considered:

The Income Tax (Amendment) Bill No. 9 of 2025. This will be at the Second Reading stage and the date for consideration is 9^th July, 2025;

The Customs and Excise (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2025. This will be at the Second Reading stage and the date for consideration is 9^th July, 2025;

The Animal Health (Amendment) Bill No. 4 of 2025. This will be at the Second Reading stage and the date for consideration is 10^th July, 2025;

The Non-Governmental Organisation Bill No. 6 of 2025. This will be at the Second Reading stage and the date for consideration is 17^th July, 2025;

The Border Management and Trade Facilitation Bill No. 5 of 2025. This will be at the Second Reading stage and the date for consideration is 18^th July, 2025;

The Building Societies (Amendment) Bill No. 3 of 2025. This will be at the Second Reading stage and the date for consideration is 18^th July, 2025; and

The National Road Fund (Amendment) Bill No. 2 of 2025. This will be at the Second Reading stage and the date for consideration is 18^th July, 2025.

Reports on International Conferences

Reports on international conferences will be considered, if there will be any.

Committee Reports

The following Committee reports will be considered during the period:

the Report of the Committee on Cabinet Affairs on the Review of the Management and Operations of the Office of the Public Protector will be presented on 9^th July, 2025;

the Report of the Committee on Local Governance, Housing and Chiefs’ Affairs on the Performance Audit Report on the Construction, Rehabilitation and Maintenance of Drainage Systems in Urban and Peri-Urban Areas, 2020-2023, will be presented on 10^th July, 2025;

the Report of the Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services on the Operations of the National Health Insurance Authority will be presented on 11^th July, 2025;

the Report of the Committee on Agriculture, Lands and Natural Resources on the Impact of Climate Change in Zambia will be presented on 15^thJuly, 2025;

the Report of the Committee on Energy, Water Development and Tourism on the Performance Audit Report on Government Efforts to Ensure Availability of Water Harvesting Infrastructure to Mitigate Water Scarcity in Zambia, 2021-2024, will be presented on 16^thJuly, 2025; and

the Report of the Committee on Education, Science and Technology on the Review of the Operations of the Higher Education Authority in Zambia will be presented on 17^th July, 2025.

Private Members’ Motions

The following hon. Members will present Private Members’ Motions during this period:

Mr M. Fube, MP, will move a Motion entitled: “Reintroduce the Debt Swap for Civil Servants” on 9^th July, 2025; and

Mr F. Kapyanga, MP, will move a Motion entitled: “To Establish a Youth and Women Department Under the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC)” on 16^thJuly, 2025.

Questions

Madam Speaker, hon. Ministers will respond to forty-three Questions for Oral Answer and Questions for Written Answers. Under the segment for Questions for Oral Answer, some questions will be responded to as grouped questions pursuant to Order No.83 of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024. The questions are contained in Appendix 1 of this statement, which will be circulated to all hon. Members.

Further, the details of the questions are contained in the Notices of Questions of 13^th September, 2024, 5^th March, 2025 and 20^th June, 2025, which have already been circulated to all hon. Members.

Madam Speaker, on behalf of the House Business Committee and in accordance with Order No. 44 of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024, I have the pleasure to present the business for the next two weeks to this august House.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Several hon. Members indicated to speak

Madam Speaker: I have not said anything.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Please, clear the list.

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URGENT MATTERS WITHOUT NOTICE

MR SAMPA, HON. MEMBER FOR MATERO, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, MR MWIIMBU, SC., ON THE ABDUCTION AND TERMINATION OF THE LIFE OF MR FRANCIS KAPWEPWE

Mr Sampa (Matero): On an Urgent Matter without Notice, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: An Urgent Matter without Notice is raised.

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, my Urgent Matter without Notice is directed to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Madam Speaker, all Zambians, including criminals, have rights. It is the duty of the Government to ensure that all Zambians’ rights are protected and that they are safe. This matter is urgent because it has now been reported on social media. If not nipped in the bud by the Government, it will put other Zambians at risk.

Madam Speaker, there is a Zambian named Francis Kapwepwe, commonly known on TikTok as Why Me, loved by many and hated by many. Many Zambians, including myself, did not support most of the things he was doing.

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, there is a report that Francis Kapwepwe was abducted and that his life was terminated. Other reports say that he was abducted by the police. Is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security in order to keep quiet when a Zambian is reported to have lost his life?

Mr Michelo: Question!

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, a similar incident is reported to have sparked the current insecurities in Kenya. It is believed that a TikTokker was killed in police cells. I bring this matter because Francis Kapwepwe is a Zambian and he has rights regardless of his criminal offences. Is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security in order to not tell this House and the nation where and what has happened to him?

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Matero, I think, guidance is what is important here. You said that your source of information is social media and TikTok. First of all, hon. Member for Matero, you are aware that our Standing Orders provide that the information that you give on the Floor of the House should be factual and verifiable. From what you have said hon. Member, the information that you are relying upon from social media is neither factual nor verifiable. It amounts to speculation. So, that does not qualify to be raised as an Urgent Matter without Notice.

I am sure, hon. Member for Matero, if you are concerned about the whereabouts of the same person you are talking about, you can go to the police and report.

Hon. PF Members: Ah!

Madam Speaker: They will be able to attend to that issue. To come and speculate here on account of reports from social media, I think, that is not correct. We should give factual information on the Floor of the House because the members of the public are listening to what you are saying, and the information that you are giving has the potential to mislead the members of the public. So, please, ensure that the information is factual and verifiable.

So, the Urgent Matter without Notice is not admitted.

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THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Mr Mwene (Mangango): Madam Speaker, good morning to Her Honour the Vice-President. Firstly, I would like to welcome the newly-elected hon. Member of Parliament for Lumezi into the House.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwene: The seat that now belongs to your right-hand side, Madam Speaker, used to be on your left, but now we are very happy that it is on your right. The people of Zambia are also very happy about this seat and all the other seats that the New Dawn Government has won.

Madam Speaker, the good people of Zambia are happy with how they are living now. In the days of the previous regime, civil servants used to run away from their work places because of cadreism by the former Government. Civil servants are now working in peace. They are delivering effectively because of the good governance, good working environment, good economic policies in Zambia …

Hon. PF Members: What is your question?

You are wasting time.

Mr Mwene: … and good infrastructure that is coming up. Her Honour the Vice-President, the kwenyus are just too much now. Everything is a kwenyu. Every day, when people wake up, it is kwenyu. People –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Mangango, please, ask your question.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwene: Madam Speaker, with the Nalumangonomics at play, what is the New Dawn Government’s secret for ensuring everything is moving in the right direction? We are now seeing the main reason people voted for change in 2021. This is what they are seeing now. What is the secret? May Her Honour the Vice-President enlighten us, the Zambians. Nowadays, there is no more gassing.

Laughter

Mr Mwene: Madam Speaker, we are now sleeping, waking up and going for work in peace.

Hon. Government Members: Pele!

Madam Speaker: Order!

Mr Mweene: Madam Speaker, they are saying, “Pele”. In Nkoya, pele, means …

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Mr Mweene: … that it is enough; people have heard; and the question is very clear. Twakambiliko shikuma mwane. That means, “Thank you very much.”

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, as we ask questions, let us be precise to the point so that we allow other hon. Members to ask questions. We only have forty-five minutes. Please, if you are curtailed, do not feel you have been discriminated against or that I am being biased. So, please –

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, thank you, and good morning to the hon. Member and the people of Mangango. I thank him for that question. Let me, also congratulate the hon. Member for Lumezi.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, he is welcome to the House of the people. As he represents the people of Lumezi, we look up to him.

Madam Speaker, basically, the hon. Member for Mangango is saying that he is happy with the governance of this country. He has further stated several issues that make the people of Zambia happy with this Government. Now, the question is: What is the secret? How are we doing things to make the people so happy? The people are happy because there is peace, no cadreism, infrastructure development, and good governance. So many things are happening. The Nalumangonomics is working.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member has further said that today, the governance fruit is showing. If we want, we can say that fruits are showing. What is the secret? There are a number of things we can look at. I will mention a few issues that are on my mind about the secret which we have on this side.

Madam Speaker, to start with, one secret is good leadership.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, leadership is critical in any management of any affairs, including the affairs of the country. So, that is the secret. We started by picking the right person to lead us as the United Party for National Development (UPND).

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the second one is the discipline of a grouping.

Mr Mwiimbu: Yes!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, it starts with the leader. Where I come from, it is said that the fish rots from the…?

Hon. Government Members: The head!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, so, discipline will filter through the people. That is a very important key to success.

Madam Speaker, the vision is another issue that contributes to what the people are seeing. We have a vision because we were clear of what we wanted to do for the people of Zambia and we are following it. However, vision alone is not enough. We have to think through and make the right policies to fulfil our dream and vision.

Madam Speaker, this is what is happening. There are many other secrets that we have. We promised the people of Zambia that there would be discipline, and I pray that that is happening. If there is anywhere where there is no discipline, I remind all of us in leadership here and out there that we need to close every bleeding point of our resources. This means that we should not allow resources to be used at a personal level. Therefore, we should all ensure we do the things that we need to do.

Madam Speaker, we are fighting corruption tooth and nail and we will continue to do so, so that whatever resource is meant for the people goes to the people. There may be somebody doing wrong, but the long arm of the law will catch up with them. It does not matter how long, umulandu ta ububola. It does not matter where one is.

Madam Speaker, this is the discipline that has been put within our group, starting with the leader. I can go on and on. I thank the hon. Member for the question. For the rest of the question, I think he should elaborate well so that I understand.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Madam Speaker, when the United Party for National Development (UPND) took over power in 2021, it found the local debt which the Patriotic Front (PF) had accumulated in ten years of K78 billion. In four years, the current Government has accumulated domestic debt ofK245 billion.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Kapyanga: Mwe Lesa!

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, this means that in four years, it has borrowed K167 billion and that is minus the external debt. Could Her Honour the Vice-President share with the people of Zambia what tangible infrastructure development they have worked on from 2021 to date, that the people of Zambia can appreciate now?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank you, and I thank the hon. Member for Mkushi South for bringing up the issue of the debt that has been accumulated. I cannot verify the figures, and I do not know whether my hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning can verify the K78 billion and K167 billion that the hon. Member says have been accumulated in four years.

Madam Speaker, I am sorry. I am not stepping into your shoes. I have answered this question many times. The last time, it was the hon. Member for Nakonde who asked exactly the same question and I gave answers. I wonder what we do in this House. So, are we going to keep repeating the same thing?

Madam Speaker, even your Hansard will have issues repeated many times. However, I am compelled to respond to the hon. Member because he talks about the previous Regime’s borrowing over the past ten years compared to the current borrowing. His concern is what we have done with the borrowing.

Mr Simumba: What have you done?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, we will start comparing from the past. We found a finished economy ...

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: … and they found a grown economy. Let us not repeat these things for the sake of politics. Even yesterday, I heard of this debate. I may not have been physically here, but I was following the debate.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, do they mean they cannot see their Constituency Development Funds (CDF)?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisopa: Is it tangible?

The Vice-President: Hon. Colleagues, when you say ‘tangible,’ what is tangible? It is something you can see, something you can feel.

Madam Speaker, hon. Members cannot see the CDF. Hon. Members cannot even see how we are completing the projects that the previous Government left incomplete. They cannot see. The hon. Members on the left cannot see that part of the money that the Government is borrowing is meant to deal with the debt that they themselves left. They cannot see that. So, what is ‘tangible’?

Madam Speaker, those are political questions to make a name, to make people see that we are doing something wrong.

Mr Chisopa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

The Vice-President: This is your question, and I am trying to answer it.

Madam Speaker, can we, as hon. Members, ask about things that will add value. I have stood here before to answer this question. I have even talked about the issue of borrowing and paying back, if the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning can remember. That adds to this. I remember sitting here, and I was very happy that day because I had prepared for the question on borrowing, going through the figures on domestic and external debt and how we have dealt with it. I cannot do that now. However, we are still dealing with the debt. Even the international community, the assessors, are saying that we are doing so well. However, the people who are eating and enjoying the fruits of our work are saying nothing.

Madam Speaker, you cannot fault this Government on any economic trajectory. You cannot fault this Government. I am just being sincere. Let us ask about other things. On the issue of the economy, nobody could have done better. We have come from the doldrums to where we are now. We have come to the point where ‘nalumangonomics’ is working. The fuel prices, which the hon. Members on the left thought they could use, have gone down. We found the rate of the Kwacha against the United States (US) Dollar in a bad state, but we have done so much work to stabilise it. Even under difficult circumstances, the Kwacha is gaining. Now, the hon. Members on the left have no issues to talk about. Can they find other issues. Zambians can see. Let the hon. Members on the left find other issues to talk about because the economic issues will not work. Do not go and look at one person who is crying. We are doing a lot of work, and we have never said that we will work on everything at the same time. Life evolves; we deal with what we can today. We can focus on tomorrow, but things that we may not have thought of can happen. Today, as the Vice-President, I can say that the Government is dealing with the economy, and I am proud.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity.

Good morning, Your Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, two years ago, I brought up the issue regarding the plight of the civil servants who have been confined to the Public Service Management Division (PSMD) without justifiable reasons. They have been waiting for redeployment and have stayed home for about four years now without being told why they are at home. Meanwhile, the Government has been paying them salaries. In short, the Government is running two parallel payrolls when the country needs a lot of money for other issues. So, when is the Government going to tell those workers the offences they have committed? They are wondering because even when one of them dies, no representative from the Government attends the funeral. They are being buried as if they do not work for the Government. Why is the Government torturing those workers, instead of retiring them if they are no longer required in the Civil Service?

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chama North, the use of the word ‘torturing’ in the context that you have put it, is unparliamentary. Use another term, please, because I do not believe that the Government is there to torture its citizens.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, I replace the word ‘torturing’ with ‘punishment’. Why are those workers being punished for no apparent reason? There is no way that workers can stay home for almost four years while the Government is paying them salaries for doing nothing. The Government has not given them the reasons that they were sent home. I want to know from the Government because the workers also want to know what offences they committed for them to be treated in this manner by their own Government.

The Vice-President: Good morning to the hon. Member for Chama North.

Madam Speaker, I have heard the question. I remember that the hon. Member has brought up the question before. In fact, I brought the figures regarding this question as they were given to me last year. So, it is true that the hon. Member has brought up this question before.

Madam Speaker, because of the specific nature of the question, allow me to go and find out. However, the fact is that no Government wants to punish anybody. In fact, the hon. Member is concerned that the Government is paying two people for one position, and I agree with him. I think, he brought out something like that. Further, he used the word ‘punishing’. Then he has defeated himself. He said that those workers are being paid, so what kind of punishment is that? That part is political. Imagine sending me, as the Vice-President, home and giving me my salary as well. Could I say that I am being punished? I think, punish me. I would say, punish me. So, as a leader in this country, the hon. Member’s concern should be the second part of his question. His concern should be that we are keeping two people in one position. How many people are we paying salaries? I need to get the facts because the matter could be speculation. Or, maybe, the hon. Member met one man in this category of workers, but the hon. Member is saying that there are many in the same category. If we ask how many workers are in the category, maybe he has the figure and he could tell us. He could also tell us which departments the workers are from. Otherwise, yes, if we are paying two people for one position using his money, my money, then, the system is not working properly. However, nobody is punishing anybody.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Simumba (Nakonde): Madam Speaker, thank you very much.

Good morning, Your Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, Zambians witnessed the Fifth International Scottish Masonic Conference, which was held in Livingstone, approved by the Government.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, sorry, I did not hear the word that you used.

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, masonic, freemason.

Mr Amutike: Question!

Mr Simumba: Are you one of them?

Mr Amutike: Question!

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, Zambians witnessed the Fifth International Scottish Masonic Conference, which was approved by the New Dawn Administration. It was the first time that the conference was held in Zambia. Zambians want to know from Her Honour the Vice-President, what some of the benefits of the Fifth International Scottish Masonic Conference in Zambia are, when Zambians are Christians.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Nakonde for asking that question.

Madam Speaker, he has said that Zambians have witnessed the Fifth International Scottish Masonic Conference in Livingstone.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member said – I am just picking out the main points – that the conference was approved by the Zambian Government. That is a very strong statement. First of all, the hon. Member said, “It was witnessed”. The question is: Who witnessed the event? We would like the witnesses to help the Government. If it was witnessed by the Zambian people, it means that the hon. Member knows those who witnessed it. Maybe, he even knows the members of the Masonic conference. Secondly, the hon. Member said that the Government of the Republic of Zambia approved the event. There was no approval by the Government. When I heard the news in the media, because of the nature that surrounds the Masons, or whatever they are called, I thought maybe they were registered. Hon. Members can search records at the Registrar of Societies or the Patents and Companies Registration Agency (PACRA). Nothing has been registered during my time in office as the Vice-President. I took an interest personally because the issue had attracted national attention. There is nothing in the records. If there is anything similar to that, it may be something that was registered a long time ago. So, if there are people who witnessed the event, where was it held?

Mr Mwene: He was there!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I do not want to say what I think about the masons, but where was the conference held? If it was witnessed, I would like to get information about those people meeting at a given place. Maybe, I can then understand the benefits of the event. I do not know where they held that meeting and who was present. How can I, therefore, know the deliberations? I think that is what the question was about; what are the benefits of the masonic conference? As far as I know, as I stand on the Floor right now, unless evidence is adduced, no such meeting was held.

Madam Speaker, maybe, our hon. Colleagues is a member.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: I hear it is –

Mr Simumba rose.

The Vice-President: You witnessed it?

Madam Speaker, I hear that masons are a secret society. So, why is a secret society coming out in the open? Is it no longer secret? We need to know. Some of us have in mind the target. It may be politically motivated. However, it will not work, and it never worked. I do not know about the existence of the group that has been mentioned. As the Vice-President, I do not know where they held their meeting, and I do not know the members. Do they pose as masons or do they pretend? Do they call themselves another name? I do not know the answer.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simushi (Sikongo): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, for this opportunity to ask a question.

Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government inherited a broken economy; an economy that was growing at negative 2.8 per cent. People were being gassed and food security was not assured for the Zambian people. When the New Dawn Administration came into power, the President promised a methodical approach to economic recovery. Last year, amidst the biggest drought that this country has ever experienced, the economy miraculously grew by 4 per cent. This year, the economy is projected to grow at 6.6 per cent. The country is now on a positive trajectory, and despite the song that the Opposition was singing on the high cost of living, and our agricultural sector has grown. So, I am saying kwenyu. Fuel prices have dropped. Again, I am saying kwenyu. The United States (US) Dollar rate has dropped, so I am saying kwenyu. What chance in hell does the Opposition have to win the 2026 General Elections?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Sikongo for that question.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member has given a bit of background on what is happening today in the economy. He has reminded us that before the New Dawn Government come into power, the economy was going down; it was actually declining by negative 2.8 per cent. That is the figure he gave me. He also talked about food insecurity. We experienced a drought, which was devastating. However, even during that terrible drought, the hon. Member has said that the economy grew by 4 per cent. It is true and I agree. That is a wonderful record after many years of our colleagues’ time in office. The projected economic growth is now 6 per cent.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member has asked that with such positive indicators – I am using his words – what else is the Opposition going to talk about? He has also spoken about fuel, which I think, I spoke about already., He mentioned the performance of the Kwacha and the bumper harvest, which are a result of the good polices of this Government. So, what else is left for our friends to talk about? On hunger, even during the last Sitting, people in this House were talking about akabunga; mealie meal. That was the big issue. Do we remember? So, what is the big issue now?

Madam Speaker, the question is: What advice can I give my hon. Colleagues? My simple advice to hon. Members of the Opposition is that they should go back to the drawing board. Otherwise, it is zero or nothing to talk about. They will create stories and make up situations, but uh-uh, it will not work. They should just go back to the drawing board. We like them being in a position to oppose properly, but now we feel sorry for them because we do not know what they will be talking about. So, it is back to the drawing board.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms S. Mwamba (Kasama Central): Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Good morning to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, month in and month out, adjustments are made to fuel prices. Petrol, diesel, kerosene and jet fuel prices are reduced or increased. However, one aspect has not been looked into. The kitchen is let down. Most women use liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) to cook, which is an alternative source of energy. I want to know why there is no consideration for the reduction of prices of LPG. Currently, prices range between K45 and K55 per kg in Lusaka. In far-flung areas, prices are between K60 and K70 per kg. Why is there no consideration for the price of LPG when there is a reduction in the price of other petroleum products?

The Vice-President: Good morning to the hon. Member and to the people of Kasama Central.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member has noted the adjustment on energy products. She said, “Month in and month out” and I do not know whether that is a compliment or a complaint.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, we can explain why that is done, instead of leaving the prices for longer periods. I think, we have had conversations about that in this House. However, her concern is about the liquid petroleum gas (LPG) used in the gas stoves for cooking. Why is there no adjustment in the prices of LPG? Honestly, standing here, I cannot give the answer. I will have to be guided to understand the situation. Is it a forgotten item, yet an alternative energy source in households? If we are talking about deforestation, we have to encourage alternative energy. I hear the hon. Member on that one. However, I may not have the answer because I have not noticed that the price of gas has not been adjusted. I will have to find out and see what is happening in that field.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I am sure the hon. Minister of Energy has taken note of that concern.

Let us go the gender way.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Thank you so much, Madam Speaker. Wow!

Laughter

Hon. Members: Wow!

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, we have seen Zambians suffering from what seems to be just normal influenza (flu), yet it is the Coronavirus Disease-2019 (COVID-19). Why has the Government gone silent without informing the nation of this COVID-19, which has come back? People need to be informed so that they get back to taking precautions, so to speak. Even here, where we are seated, some of our colleagues, as you can see, are coughing, and it is not just a normal cough.

Madam Speaker, I would like Her Honour the Vice-President to inform the nation why the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government has not taken up the responsibility to inform the nation that COVID-19 is actually in full swing.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much. I am hearing people coughing, and I am looking at them too.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Chienge, who has suddenly become ‘Dr Chienge’, diagnosing the Coronavirus Disease-2019 (COVID-19). She sees so many cases of COVID-19 herself, which warrants the Government announcing to the Zambian people that COVID-19 has come back. We have the former hon. Minister of Health. From the little I know, COVID-19, yes –

Hon. Members: She has COVID-19, she is coughing.

Laughter

The Vice-President: She also has COVID-19?

Laughter

The Vice-President: Okay.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I told you that she is now a doctor.

Madam Speaker: Now, it looks like it is witchcraft.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, COVID-19 has never ended 100 per cent. This is the little that I know. It depends on the numbers. When they become concerning, then the Government has to warn the people. So, if one has COVID-19, It does not mean that it has come back. It never ended. It has been here in isolated places. The Government can only announce when it becomes alarming and spreading a little faster. If any one of us here has COVID-19, I think that he/she should isolate himself/herself. We are the most responsible people. We are looked to as leaders. So, if we were in a situation in which you think COVID-19 could have broken out, do you think the former hon. Minister of Health would continue sitting here without a mask and spreading COVID-19? No.

Madam Speaker, I can tell you that I was down with the flu. Of course, I had to take all the preventive measures. Sorry to use myself as an example, but it was not COVID-19. There is a serious influenza that is going around, and it is very serious, but it is not COVID-19. They have tested it. This Government cannot be that irresponsible, madam doctor. Do not diagnose people when you see them moving and coughing. We are all well in this House. Some may have influenza of some kind, a very strange flu, but it is not killing us. We are getting the right medication, and we are fine.

Madam Speaker, let us not alarm people. Zambians should not fear that there is COVID-19 and that the Government is doing nothing. No, there is no COVID-19. However, there is some flu that is going around, and it can make one feel quite bad. So, there is no COVID-19 for the Government to make an announcement about. We pray there should not be any. We have enough situations to deal with.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central): Thank you so much, Madam Speaker, for this opportunity to ask a question to Her Honour the Vice-President. Good morning.

Madam Speaker, the people of Zambia are worried that they have started hearing ama lyashi yamu bwalwa in this House. Before you ask me to explain what ama lyashi yamu bwalwa is, let me explain. These are the talks you hear when people are intoxicated with alcohol. They start discussing issues that are not there yet. Sometimes, when electrons in the head start erupting, they start hallucinating. Then they start saying such things as “We approved K174 billion here in the House, where is the money?” As if when we approve the Estimates of Expenditure, there is already an ukwa bag where money sits. At times, they say, “There is gold there”. It is as if one can just go there with a pick and shovel and start digging to get the money and loan. So, such kind of talk worries people.

Madam Speaker, this Government has been accused of having got a cut from the loan repayment that we just approved yesterday. I know that when the Executive says, your Government, it is not only referring to the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, the Cabinet approved it before the matter was brought here. So, the people want to know if the Government is exempt from paying the arrangement fee or commission when borrowing from commercial banks

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, some topics are not easy for me because I am not very conversant in this space. Maybe, I should pay attention to this question. We are now talking about ama lyashi yamu bwalwa. If I understand it well, we are now spending time talking about stories that people discuss in drinking places. That is sad. We should not do that. However, if I got the question properly from the hon. Member, she referred to the loan that we are getting, as the Government. Is it not? The figure that we are borrowing? The hon. Member asked if we are getting a cut from the loan. In what capacity are we getting a cut? Is it as individuals or as who?

Ms Halwiindi: As the Government.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Yeah, that is the issue.

Madam Speaker, how easy was it for them to get cuts from loans? I think, we need to learn from those who have done it before. This Government is not getting any cut. Of course, the money will go through the process. The hon. Minister can correct me on that one. The money we borrow goes through a process of reaching the Government accounts, and it goes through banks. The banks have a duty –that is how they make money; from the cuts, as you call them. Then the actual figure will be reflected as management and administrative costs along the way. That is not a cut, please. If one sees the final figure, and says that somebody along the way got a cut, that is not a cut. That can never happen in this Government. Is that what the hon. Member meant? So, nobody is getting a cut. We are so concerned that the money should reach the intended people, who are the people of Zambia. There is no such a thing like a cut. They can follow that up because money has a trail. So, why do they not follow it up to see where the cut is? That is how even in the previous regime, things were followed. It was either through the Auditor-General or even –

Who is that one who likes speculations?

Interruptions

The Vice-President: No, I do not a person but the institution. The Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC). It shows the trial of money.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member may be comforted that this Government will get no cut. If the figure changes from K14 billion, then that will be due to administrative costs along the way, if there is any.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Thank you, Madam Speaker, and Good morning, Your Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, the United Nations (UN) Special Rapporteur says that Zambia is at crossroads as it heads towards the 2026 General Elections, citing a number of human rights abuses …

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Kapyanga: … including the denial for Opposition political parties to hold rallies.

Mr Simumba: Yes!

Mr Kapyanga: This is contributing to the shrinking democracy. Critics of the Government have been arrested, including hon. Members of Parliament. Youthful bloggers are being arrested for criticising the Government. The Registrar of Societies is changing political party office bearers at will without the consent of a particular political party, including the Patriotic Front (PF).

Madam Speaker, is Her Honour the Vice-President, a proud Republican Vice-President today, that under her watch, her own Government is committing those atrocities against the people of Zambia, and the human rights record for our country is declining?

The Vice-President: Thank you, Madam Speaker, and good morning to the hon. Member for Mpika.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Mpika wants me to only see his head from the way he is sitting.

Mr Kapyanga sat up.

The Vice-President: Yes! Good!

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Mpika refers to the UN Special Rapporteur’s Report about Zambia, and he says it is at crossroads. He has brought out a number of issues I am not sure whether all the issues that he has brought out are part of the Report.

Madam Speaker, I think I was asked here earlier when the report came out and my answer still stands. Yes! In fact, I remember that this was more in the press. The hon. Member should not include in the report things he thinks are happening. I think there is still a lot of room for us to practice our democratic rights. Sometimes, when my hon. Colleagues fail to organise a meeting, they should not call it Government interference.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: With regard to the change of political party leadership by the Registrar of Societies, …

Hon. PF Members: Yes!

The Vice-President: … I cannot even respond to that. I have always said that to be in the Opposition, you need to be strong.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Kukosa!

The Vice-President: It is to be –

Hon. UPND Members: Strong!

The Vice-President: If they know their rights, they need to push until they get it.

Hon. PF Members: Oaky, you have answered!

The Vice-President: If they want other people to push for them, that will not happen.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. PF Members: Is that your answer?

The Vice-President: I like to say what I believe in.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Do they remember what we went through? We did not go home crying.

Today, they can see themselves suffering. Ask Kampyongo.

Oh, sorry! Ask the hon. Member.

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

The Vice-President: Colleagues, let us do civil politics, not just things that we think about. They have the right to think the way they do. I also want to state that I did a lot of sprinting in Shiwang’andu.

The Vice-President pointed at Mr Mwiimbu, SC.

I am whispering to him.

Laughter

The Vice-President: That is what it means.

However, what I am saying is that we need to have a one Zambia, a democratic country. Reading and saying what is not in the report is not helpful. We have read the report. Can they also see the praise that is in the report? In that report, there is the acknowledgement of things that are happening in their Government. It is their Government too. We are running the Executive and they are in the legislature. Therefore, they are part of the Government. They are making laws. So, indeed, I am still a proud Vice-President because I think we are allowing the space that they need. Please, the space is there, and they can get it. They may not see properly, but it is there.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: That concluded this segment. We make progress.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, aflatoxins contained in mealie meal –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

The question is: Do you have evidence?

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I can go and get evidence.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

The question is: Do you have evidence that you can tender before this House? If you do not have evidence, please, withdraw and apologise. When you have the evidence, then, you can bring up the issue. However, for now, since you do not have evidence, withdraw and apologise.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, let me withdraw for alluding to the fact that the United Party for National Development (UPND) fed the Zambian people poisonous mealie meal.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, the mealie meal contained aflatoxins. I withdraw and apologise. However, I am going to get the Ministerial Statement, which was tendered on the Floor of the House by an UPND hon. Minister, to show that they did that.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, please, bring that evidence, and then you can pick up from there.

Interruptions

Silence

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, now that I have your attention, we can make progress.

_______

BILLS

FIRST READING

THE INCOME TAX (Amendment) BILL, 2025

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Income Tax (Amendment) Bill No. 9 of 2025. The objects of the Bill are to:

increase the withholding tax from 15 per cent to 20 per cent on Government securities;

introduce a minimum alternative tax at the rate of 1 per cent to counter tax avoidance and broaden the tax base; and

provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Planning and Budgeting Committee. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House on Friday, 11^th July, 2025. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

THE CUSTOMS AND EXCISE (Amendment) BILL

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled, the Customs and Excise (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2025. The objects of the Bill are to:

revise the rates of customs and excise duty payable on certain goods;

introduce 10 per cent excise duty on betting services; and

provide for matters connected with, or incidental to the foregoing.

_______

QUESTION FOR ORAL ANSWER

PLANS TO TAR TOWNSHIP ROADS IN NAKONDE DISTRICT

370. Mr Simumba (Nakonde) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

whether the Government has any plans to tar township roads in Nakonde District;

if so, when the plans will be implemented;

how many kilometres of roads are earmarked for tarring; and

if there are no such plans, why.

Mr Mutelo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, when we keep quiet here, it does not mean that we are not hurt. In reference to Standing Order No.71, whatever we say in this House should be factual and verifiable.

Madam Speaker, it is a fact that the hon. Member of Parliament for Mpika called us rats and cockroaches, and he had to ask for forgiveness in Parliament.

Madam Speaker, today, he has now the audacity to say that the New Dawn Government and the United Party for National Development (UPND) are making the Patriotic Front (PF) Members suffer, as if he has forgotten what we underwent.

Rev. Katuta: Iwe, this is a Christian nation, learn to forgive.

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, it is a Christian nation, I understand. We live to forgive and we have forgiven, but we have not forgotten.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: We have not forgotten how we suffered, Madam Speaker. We have not forgotten how Zambians were gassed. We have not forgotten how the Republican President was mistreated. We have not forgotten how the Vice-President and her team were mistreated in Shiwang’andu. We have not forgotten what happened in Sesheke.

Madam Speaker, was the hon. Member for Mpika in order to provoke us when we have forgiven them?

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members for Chienge and Matero, you know the rules. You cannot raise a point of order on another point of order. This tendency of just standing up and wanting to say something before you are even called upon, I think, does not depict the decorum of this House well. Please, let us restrain ourselves. We are brothers and sisters. Let us work together in harmony. Looking back, so much has happened and so much is happening. So, let us not try to fight or attack one another because it will not take us anywhere. The Zambian people are looking up to us. Whether you are on my left or right, please, let us build bridges. Let us hold one another’s hands and walk together for the benefit of the people of Zambia.

In short, let us not go back. Of course, by going back, we learn how to relate in the future. However, let us pick good lessons from what we have learnt to make Zambia a better place to live in. So, please, let us not annoy or provoke one another. As I said earlier, we are brothers and sisters, and we need to live with one another in harmony. We are all Christians, first and foremost. Let us bear that in mind as we interact with one another.

Hon. Member for Mpika, please, do not provoke others. Restrain yourself. I did not hear what you said, but for the hon. Member for Mitete to have raised that matter, it means that he heard something. I did not hear what it was, but, please, let us restrain ourselves by choosing the words that we use against one another, because those words can build or destroy. I have said that before.

Let us make progress.

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Sialubalo): Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to tar township roads in Nakonde District.

Madam Speaker, the plans will be implemented once funds are available.

Madam Speaker, according to the request that was submitted by the council in Nakonde in 2022, 31.3 km of the road network will be considered for tarring. However, the number of kilometres of the road network to be worked on will be determined by the funds that will be allocated for the work.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, Nakonde is our gateway to East Africa, and across the border between Zambia and Tanzania, the city on the other side is growing fast. The hon. Minister’s predecessor gave assurances. I remember the hon. Member posing this question in 2023, and he was assured that in 2024, a number of kilometres would be worked on in order to make the border point, which was destined for expansion, conducive for revenue generation in that area, as it is one of the busiest border towns. What has happened to the assurance that was given to the people of Nakonde through their representative? Has there been any change because now we are hearing that only when money is available will the ministry implement works on the road network in Nakonde?

Rev. Katuta: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: What is the point of order, hon. Member for Chienge?

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, this point of order is pursuant to Standing Order No. 139(11).

Madam Speaker, it is my humble appeal to the House that, maybe, there should be a rule on searching hon. Members before coming into the House, because some of them seem like they smoke dagga. So, I think, it is important to have a breathalyser or something because this is a House of decorum. Hon. Members should be subjected to proper screening so that when we stand to debate, we speak about what the people of Zambia would like to hear.

Madam Speaker, I need your serious indulgence.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chienge, you have referred to Standing Order No. 139, which talks about points of order. Which Standing Order, sorry?

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, I referred to Standing Order No. 139(11). I seek your discretion.

Madam Speaker: Standing Order No. 139(11) states:

“Despite the provisions of this Standing Order, the presiding officer shall decide whether or not the Point of Order is admissible.”

So, what breach has been committed? There is no breach that has happened. I do not know how we will be able to determine –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, we have a lot of business on the Order Paper. Please, we want to make progress. Let us not raise points of order without facts, if we cannot verify them. I do not know what has happened. If the hon. Member for Chienge has a particular person whom she wants to draw my attention to, it is better to be specific, rather than to be speculative. I do not know why a breathalyser would be needed in the House, and what somebody has said to justify that; whether it is because they had taken one or two too many drinks that they cannot be coherent in their debate. I do not know. I have not seen that. So, please, let us raise points of order that are justifiable.

Mr Sialubalo: Madam Speaker, indeed, on the other side, the Tanzanian town is growing fast. I saw that when I went to inspect the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) projects together with the hon. Member for Nakonde. I even saw the stretch of the road that made the hon. Member raise this question.

Madam Speaker, the assurance that can be comforting for the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu is that, indeed, the hon. Member for Nakonde asked a question some time back, and an effort was made by the ministry to undertake preliminaries. That is how the ministry came up with the 31.3 km. So, we are waiting for Treasury authority because we cannot start undertaking work without resources.

Madam Speaker, the House may be aware that there are many competing needs, including debt servicing and the CDF. So, once resources for road networks are allocated, definitely, Nakonde will be considered.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, the Government makes a lot of money through the Nakonde Border Post. On a lighter note, in Nakonde, someone cannot find a location using Google Maps like in other constituencies.

Madam Speaker, in 2023, the Government, through the former hon. Minister for Muchinga Province, Hon. Sikazwe, during the Mutomolo Traditional Ceremony, told the people of Nakonde, in the presence of Her Royal Highness Chieftainess Waitwika, that the Government had allocated money for township roads in Nakonde. I am wondering which Government allocated money for township roads because it is through the same Government that Hon. Sikazwe told the Zambian people that it had allocated money for the construction of township roads in Nakonde. Today the hon. Minister, in his statement, has said that the township roads will be worked on when money is available. Where is the money that the former hon. Minister told the people of Nakonde was available?

Mr Sialubalo: Madam Speaker, it will be difficult for me to ascertain the authenticity of the statement or whether it came from the former hon. Minister for Muchinga Province. What is comforting is that township roads fall under the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development. So, what I am giving is a true picture of what should be considered. So, whether or not that statement was made, I cannot verify.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Nakaponda (Isoka): Madam Speaker, part of my question has been answered. However, before I ask my supplementary question, I want to thank the Government and the President for sending the contractor to complete the works at Michael Chilufya Sata Girls Secondary School. The school is almost complete now.

Madam Speaker, I want to know from the hon. Minister when funds for tarring roads in Nakonde will be available.I also have the same challenge in Isoka, where about four roads need to be tarred.

Mr Sialubalo: Madam Speaker, thank you very much, and I would like to thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Isoka for that question. She is a very hard-working hon. Member of Parliament. I visited her constituency and I saw what she is doing using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Very inspiring, indeed.

Madam Speaker, I do not want to deceive the hon. Member on the actual date or time when money will be made available. However, the plan is in place. Once the Ministry of Finance and National Planning has resources to allocate for that venture, money will be available at that time. To give her the specific date would be deceiving.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, each year, we approve budgets here, and for 2025, we approved the budget for the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development. It had a component of township roads. So, I would like to know if other constituencies have benefited from the same component. What criteria did the other constituencies use for them to benefit so that the people of Nakonde can also use the same to benefit themselves?

Mr Chisopa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Interruptions

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, I need protection from the hon. Member for Shangombo and one hon. Minister before I say what is not supposed to be said.

Mr Samakayi: Question!

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation for supplying us with water and that we also need to indicate our priority areas. However, I have a very serious concern about the installation of towers. On two consecutive occasions, your office instructed us and gave us a deadline for us to submit the points that needed tower installation. To date, and we have not received the towers, whose sites we are instructed to choose. Is the hon. Minister of Technology and Science in order to have come to persuade us to apply for communication towers, two years ago, to not give us the towers, whose points of installation your office instructed us to identify?

My point of order is pursuant to Standing Order No. 71.

I seek your guidance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Mkushi South, we were in the middle of dealing with the Question for Oral Answer raised by the hon. Member for Nakonde, and you indicated that you wanted to raise a point of order. I will refer you to Standing Order No.140, which provides as follows:

“140. Admissibility of Point of Order

A point of order may be admissible if –

it is raised immediately after the alleged breach occurs;

Your point of order falls off on that ground.

it is brief and precise;

Well, maybe it was.

it is raised in a civil language; and

Yes, it was.

it is not raised against a decision of a presiding officer.”

It was not raised against my decision because it was not I who indicated what you talked about. However, it goes to show that the issue about communication towers was raised some time back. If you are not satisfied with what the hon. Minister promised, you may either ask a question or approach him or find another way through which that point can be discussed or brought before the Floor of this House.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: I am guiding and the hon. Member for Mkushi South is laughing. Are you laughing at me? Whom are you laughing at?

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, I am responding to the hon. Minister.

Madam Speaker: Please, let us be civil in the manner we behave on the Floor of the House. The point of order does not stand. It is dismissed.

The hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development may proceed.

Mr Sialubalo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the supplementary question. What is comforting is that some work is being done in Choma, Lusaka, Kitwe and Solwezi. This shows that the Government is sharing the national cake equally. The four towns are in four different provinces. This means that the other provinces will be considered in the next phase. Probably, Nakonde will be in the other phase, looking at the resources available.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Zulu: Madam Speaker, when business was suspended, I was saying that the other side of Nakonde is called Tunduma, and according to the way it is set up, the House will agree with me that it is well-developed. In that area, you will also find that Chama Rice, which is grown in Chama District of Zambia, is also sold as Nakonde Rice. Trade is more encouraging on the other side of the border than it is on the Zambian side.

This means that the Tanzanian Government makes more money than the Zambian Government from the same border facility. Therefore, when one is that, one cannot even tell which hon. Member is from Tanzania and which one is from Zambia because we are one and the same people. So, the Tanzanian Government collects more revenue than our Government. That is why we are not developing.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister will agree with me that this year, we have not performed well with regard to the township roads. The House will agree with me that the 1.5 km stretch in Nyimba was not completed in the last eight months due to lack of funding.

Madam Speaker, does the Government have priority areas that it can develop, say border posts such as the Nakonde Border Post so that it can generate more money, just like the Tanzania Government is doing? I am saying so because we are missing a lot at Nakonde Border Post.

Mr Sialubalo: Madam Speaker, I thank you so much.

I also thank the hon. Member for Nyimba for the supplementary question.

Madam Speaker, the main road in Nakonde, which was done by the Road Development Agency (RDA) is very okay and there is nothing wrong with it. So, the concern of the people of Nakonde is basically the township roads. I agree with the hon. Member when he talks about the commerce aspect. Yes, there are a lot of activities in Tunduma than on the Zambian side. Definitely, there is an assurance that those township roads will be worked on. There is nothing wrong on the trunk road because it is very okay to support business activities. However, in trying to beautify Nakonde so that its residents can also get a piece of the national cake, definitely, the township roads will have to be worked.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, we need to make progress. We have orders of the day that we need to conclude today.

So, we can make progress.

_______

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES NO. 1 OF 2025

(Consideration resumed)

VOTE 18 – (Judiciary – K6,185,904)

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Mr Chairperson, I beg to move that K6,185,904 be approved in respect of Vote 18 – Judiciary, as part of the Supplementary Estimates No. 1 of 2025.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Vote 18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 21 – (Loans and Investment – Ministry of Finance and National Planning – K11,043,721,761)

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move that K11,043,721,761 be approved in respect of Vote 21 – Loans and Investment – Ministry of Finance and National Planning, as part of the Supplementary Estimates No. 1 of 2025.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 3440, Activity 002 – Project Implementation Management – K204,654,097. Under this Vote, the Government is seeking approval to spend K204,654,097. Under the same activity, K104,654,097 is appearing as Various Donors SWAPS. I would like to hear the hon. Minister explain what this entails. Where will this fund come from? It will go to the supplementary amount which he is seeking approval for. I would like to know if it is not part of the main, substantive approved Budget which was already approved by this august House.

Mr Chairperson, in addition, Programme 3441, Activity 001 – Dismantling of Arrears – K10,839,067,664. Under this Vote, the hon. Minister is seeking approval for expenditure to dismantle arrears.

Mr Chairperson, may the hon. Minister update this august House on the audit which was undertaken to ascertain some of the arrears owed to local suppliers and contractors? These arrears have remained unpaid for a long time. The ministry undertook an audit to ascertain the validity and authenticity of the fuel debts so that he may update us on what came out of the audit. If this money is now going to be utilised to pay the contractors who have been waiting for their payments over the years, I also want to know whether interest will be considered because the people who have been waiting to be paid have suffered losses in their businesses due to the prolonged period of waiting for their payments.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, the K104,654,097 being spoken about is for the African Risk Capacity Group (ARC) for disaster mitigation. What this means is that we expect some payment. Rather, let me say it this way. We are a member of an association of African countries that make contributions like insurance, so that in the event that there is a disaster we can draw some money out of that association to mitigate the disaster. In 2023 and 2024, we were beneficiaries of that fund. The amounts, of course are helpful, but they are nothing that can cure a big disaster. So, this amount is expected.

Mr Chairperson, the K100 million is what has been talked about in the last three years, which is now beginning to happen. Infrastructure around the Liuwa National Park is being developed for tourism. As we know, Liuwa National Park is where the wildebeest migration is the second biggest in Africa, but we do not benefit from that because there is no infrastructure whatsoever.

Mr Chairperson, the next question was on arrears. First of all, indeed, arrears are never settled until after a thorough audit is undertaken and the correct amounts established. These are the amounts we have been speaking about paying for the past few days. It is not as if this is a new debt. As I said yesterday, this is debt that already exists on our books. We are paying arrears to fuel suppliers. All we are doing is substituting the expensive debt, in certain cases it is as high as 23 per cent or 27 per cent, with money borrowed at a cheaper rate of 13 per cent to pay off the fuel debt. On top of that, the accumulated arrears on interest have been negotiated down, to a certain extent, up to about 70 per cent. So, 70 per cent of the accumulated arrears have been written off. What remains is what we will pay. So, clearly, this is a good deal because in the absence of paying these arrears, what is going to happen is that the amount will just keep on increasing. That is the purpose of this money.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Vote 21 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 31 – (Ministry of Justice – K60,339,024)

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move that K60,339,024, be approved in respect of Head 31 – Ministry of Justice, as part of the Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure No. 1 of 2025.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Chairperson, I acknowledge the proposal made by the hon. Minister to appropriate K46,281,064 to Programme 4165 – Sub-Programme 003 – Arbitration, Litigation and Prosecution. However, I seek clarification on the programme. There is a carryover of K46,281,064, which is the same amount that is being proposed as supplementary expenditure. I would like to know why this funding is indicated as a carryover. Does it mean that no activities were undertaken under this budget line? If it is a carryover, is it from the previous fiscal year? Like I said yesterday, we are in the middle of fiscal year 2025, so which expenditure is this carryover coming from? If you remember, I lamented about budget cuts. If it is a budget cut, from which line is it coming? We would like to hear more information about this particular expenditure line. Is it that there were no activities related to arbitration, litigation and prosecution? As far as we know, prosecution is always going on, and we have had challenges with the Ministry of Justice moving prosecutors to different locations to deal with matters. So, we would like to hear more information on that.

Mr Chairperson, under Programme 4165 – Sub-Programme 008 - Legislative Drafting, the approved budget was K36,949,455. Now, the hon. Minister is proposing to spend an extra K14,057,960. I believe that drafting work is mostly intensified at the beginning of the year because that is when we have the Legislative Meeting of this august House. It is expected that more drafting work would be done during that Meeting. Therefore, can we know the activities that this K14,057,960 will be spent on because we are now in the Committee Reports Adoption Meeting of this august House? We would like to know what drafting activities and Bills this fund will be allocated to.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, carryovers are normal and happen all the time; year in, and year out and for years and years. It just means that there is money that was not fully utilised the previous year, and it is deemed that it must be carried over. We have done that for the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and other resources. So, there is nothing special about this other than what I have said, which is bringing money from the previous year and adding it to what is there this year.

Mr Chairperson, on drafting legislation, many activities are still to be undertaken, and it has been deemed that K36,949,455 that was provided for is not enough, especially that we are extending the process. So, K14,057,960, which is a modest amount of money, is just there to ensure that the process goes on smoothly.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Vote 31 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Votes 33 and 35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 37 – (Ministry of Finance and National Planning – K128,473,390)

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Mr Chairperson, I beg to move that K128,473,390 be approved in respect of Head 37 – Ministry of Finance and National Planning as part of the Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure No. 1 of 2025.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Chairperson, I have a few clarifications that I seek on Head 37.

Mr Chairperson, under Programmes 3421 – Fiscal Management – activity 1001 – Resources Mobilisation – K2,545,710,922 was approved in the substantive budget. The hon. Minister is seeking a Supplementary Budget of K2,726,239. There is an amount appearing under there as Carry Over of the same amount that he is proposing to be a Supplementary Expenditure. I would like the hon. Minister to shed more light on what this entails and what could have happened to this resource mobilisation programme.

Mr Chairperson, the next one is Programme 3421 – Fiscal Management, Activity 1008 – Debt Management – K21,058,190, was approved, the hon. Minister is seeking for K 73,643,986. Further, there is an activity appearing as Various Donors Swaps – K47,146,200. In the previous explanation, the hon. Minister shared with us that there is a pool where African Nations draw funds for disaster responses, which they benefited from. I would like to know where funds amounting to K47,146,200 are coming from.

Mr Chairperson, lastly, on Programme 3467 – Development Planning and Co-ordination – K 421,370,028, the hon. Minister is seeking approval for an extra sum of K49,353,018. Under the same programme, there is Activity 001 – Development Planning Co-ordination and there is World Bank amounting to K10,145,148 and Carry Over amounting to K39,207,870. I seek clarification on those supplementary figures.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, on the Fiscal Management Programme, this is basically as it shows to augment money for the Tax Appeals Tribunal, which has not been very active. So, the modest amount of money of K2,726,239 is basically to allow the Tax Appeals Tribunal to execute its mandate. As you can see, the amount K2,726,239 is extremely small.

Mr Chairperson, on the debt management, let me start with the bottom part of it. The hon. Member may recall that in the debt restructuring exercise, we hired experts. These were experts who were actually hired before this Government and there is a shortfall in the consultancy fee as was agreed upon and this amount is expected to extinguish that. Further, regarding the Open African Society, I believe this is also has do with those who help us with training.

Mr Chairperson, regarding the Zambia Statistics Agency (ZamStats), this is basically support from the World Bank. It is funding ZamStats so that we can improve our statistical base of the country. There are a number of things that are happening, for example, the base of measuring inflation, which is normally started off by a survey of what a typical shopping basket looks like, and the commodities in that basket is what we use to measure the prices month after month to be able to monitor the change in prices.

Mr Chairperson, as you can imagine, year after year, that shopping basket tends to change. It changes because either people’s tastes are changing or their incomes have increased, hence the changes in tastes. The last time this basket was surveyed was 1994. So, it is now being resurveyed. In addition, also our gross domestic product (GDP) numbers need to be reset. So, all that is an example of the support that the World Bank is giving to ZamStats to enable it to execute its mandate.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Vote 37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 39 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 45 – (Ministry of Community Development and Social Services – K1,878,497,623)

Mr Mwila (Mufulira): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5451, Sub-Programme 1002 – Social Cash Transfer - K1,560,000,000. In the substantive Budget, K8,270,004,255 was allocated to this Activity. However, the request in the Supplemental Budget is to allocate a further K1,560,000,000. Is the additional request as a result of more people being added to the Social Cash Transfer (SCT) Programme? I want to believe that beneficiaries of the SCT programme are well-known at the beginning of the year and there must be an adequate Budget allocation from the beginning of the year.

Further, if that is the case in an economy that is reported to be growing, why should we continue to have more people on the SCT programme?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Are you not happy as an hon. Member of Parliament?

Mr Mwila: They need jobs.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Ah!

Dr Musokotwane: Thank you very much, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Chairperson, I think this has been explained so many times on the Floor. I will repeat my explanation and state that all along the Social Cash Transfer (SCT) Programme has been K200 per month, which means K400 per two months. Following the drought of last year, the amount was increased from K200 to K400 per month or K800 every two months. When we approved the 2025 Budget, the premise was that this year, we would go back to K200 per month or K400 per two months.

Now, in view of the fact that there are still pockets of the country where drought situations have continued such as the North and Eastern part, the Southern part, particularly, the Zambezi Valley, and also taking into account the increase in inflation, the amount has been increased. So, originally, from the 2025 Budget, the amount paid was K400 for every two months as before. However, the policy change has been that we maintain what was there during the peak of the drought. So, that is the explanation.

Was there another question, Mr Chairperson?

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Kampyongo indicated assent.

The Deputy Chairperson: Yesterday, we announced that one hon. Member from one political party would be allowed to debate on the votes. Vote 45 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 51 – (Minister of Transport and Logistics – K84,000,000)

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 2115, Sub-Programme 5003 – Air Transport services – K84,000,000. I just want to make a brief contribution on this expenditure. The budget expenditure is talking to air, road, rail and marine transport development, and the proposed supplementary funding is going towards air transport services. We have more challenges in rail transport out of the three other activities under the proposed expenditure line. What is the K84,000,000for and what sort of air transport services do we expect?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, K84,000,000 is required to support the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) in areas of aviation safety, security and air navigation services oversight from additional projected revenues to be collected. It is all about security and safety enhancement.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Vote 51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 53 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 62 – (Ministry of Energy – K434,716,539)

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, thank you very much. However, if there is one supplementary estimate I am very reluctant to support, it is this one. I can even see the hon. Minister of Energy looking at me. This is one ministry which has stressed your people. I know, my hon. Colleague is looking at me; he needs to do a lot of work (Pointed at Mr Chikote).

Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 2401, Activity 4001 – Energy Regulation and Management – K434,716,539. The people have already been requested to pay what the Government is calling emergency tariffs. However, what do they get in return? Prolonged hours of load-shedding. Now load-shedding has even gone to four hours. You can even see that the suits worn by hon. Members here are wrinkled, like mine. It is because there is no power. Our people are stressed with load-shedding. So, I would like the hon. Minister to clarify the regulations. We expect that, if the hon. Minister says that we are going to have six hours of load-shedding, there must be someone to make sure that the proposed standards are maintained. So, how do we fund people who are failing to adhere to what they have committed to do for the people? I would like the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to justify this for us. We all know that the energy sector has put a lot of stress on the people.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, first of all, I want to say that the stress that Hon. Kampyongo is talking about needs to be clarified. First of all, we know that electricity in Zambia, I think he was talking about electricity, is mostly hydro-driven. However, reforms have been undertaken, and had those reforms not been in place, the power deficit that we are talking about would have been worse.

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

Dr Musokotwane: People are not asking themselves the question: How is it that in the year of a drought, in 2024, the mining sector still expanded production by 12 per cent? Where did the energy come from? From policies and reforms. So, yes, the natural conditions were going to create an even worse situation, but through changes in reform, those have been mitigated.

Mr Chairperson, specifically, on the issue that he raised, the money is meant to support energy regulation on the petroleum side. There has been quite a number of illegal imports and smuggling of fuel. People pretend that they are taking fuel to neighbouring countries when in the actual fact they are delivering in Zambia. So, there are a number of policy initiatives, like marking fuel so that we can tell between smuggled and genuine fuel. This money is going to support that initiative, and the good thing is that it is going to help to raise even more revenue.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Vote 62 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 66 – (Ministry of Technology and Science – K199,102,082)

Mr Mwila (Mufulira): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 2152, Activity 001 – ICT Infrastructure Development – K194,300,000. In the 2025 Budget, K14,652,118 was allocated to this activity. Now, the supplementary request is K194,300,000, which is thirteen times more than what was allocated in the main Budget. What has necessitated this colossal request in the Supplementary Budget, which is thirteen times over and above what was originally budgeted under this activity?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, the amount is for additional smart villages across Zambia. This is for infrastructure development, solution deployment, training and capacity building for local residents and stakeholders.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Vote 66 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 68 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Votes 77, 78, 80 and 86 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 89 – (Ministry of Agriculture – K5,956,080,333)

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move that K5,956,080,333 be approved in respect of Head 89 – Ministry of Agriculture, as part of the Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure No. 1 of 2025.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Mwila (Mufulira): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 2141, Sub-Programme 7001 – Farmer Input Support – K5,799,280,333. What exactly is this money going to be spent on? Are we looking at more people being put on the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) or are we expecting to increase the maize flow price? It is a colossal amount to be brought in as a supplementary request.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, this is one of those issues that has been raised several times since this process started. The extra amount that we have budgeted for takes account of the fact that part of the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) needs for 2024 were paid in 2025 because, at that time, we were not fully automated. So, some of the fertiliser was collected in January 2025, outside the electronic voucher (e-Voucher) system. Part of the fertiliser billed for 2024 was paid for in 2025. So, in 2025, what we are paying for is:

the carryover fertiliser from 2024; and

the fertiliser for this year.

Mr Chairperson, it is important for me to say that by paying off all the amounts upfront without waiting for next year, by the time the programme is launched, every farmer’s card, the card that farmers are going to redeem, will be fully loaded with the Government’s contribution for the fertiliser. The old system of farmers going to redeem the cards and being told by traders that the cards are empty, as in there is no money from the Government at that time, therefore, the traders cannot give the farmers the fertiliser, is now history. By the time a farmer goes to an agro-dealer, the card is fully loaded. So, farmers will be able to receive fertiliser well before the farming season. So, it is the upfront loading of the amount required, plus what we have cleared from last year. By the way, all the amount from last year was paid out. This is positive for farmers because they can collect fertiliser at the right time. Currently, fertiliser is being taken all over the country by traders waiting for farmers to redeem the card provisions.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Vote 89 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Votes 90, 93 and 99 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

_______

HOUSE RESUMED

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

Supplementary Estimates No. 1 of 2025 reported approved.

Report adopted.

Question put and agreed to and Madam Speaker appointed the Minister of Finance and National Planning to be a committee of one to bring in the necessary Bill to give effect hereto at a later date.

_______

MOTION

REPORT OF THE PLANNING AND BUDGETING COMMITTEE ON THE BUDGET PERFORMANCE REVIEW OF THE 2024 FINANCIAL YEAR AND FIRST QUARTER OF 2025

(Debate resumed)

Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Madam Speaker, when Business was suspended, I was indicating that despite these challenges the results of the review of the National Budget shows high fiscal discipline in the 2024 fiscal year, which is commendable. This can be explained by the favourable performance of indicators such as the 4.0 per cent real Gross Domestic Product (GDP). Additionally, the fiscal deficit was contained at 3.6 per cent of the GDP compared to the target of 4.8 per cent.

Madam Speaker, the economy in the first quarter of 2025, displayed resilience with real GDP estimated at 7.9 per cent. This growth was largely driven by mining and cement production. Let me now highlight some of the Committee's observations and recommendations.

Madam Speaker, most of the ministries, provinces and spending agencies whose budgets were reviewed by the Committee absorbed more than 90 per cent of the amounts released in the first quarter of 2025. This points to a strong budget execution and effective utilisation of allocated funds. However, it is regrettable that there was a significant delay in the release of funds, which undermined timely programme implementation.

Your Committee, therefore, urges the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to ensure that funds are disbursed timely and consistently. Your Committee further recommends that the ministry should enhance efficiency in considering and approving requests for variation of funds to avoid funds being returned to the Treasury at the close of the year.

Madam Speaker, the Committee observes that the agriculture sector had been negatively affected by climate-induced factors, threatening food security. This had necessitated drought response interventions to safeguard livelihoods. Cognisant, of the importance of extension services in supporting recovery of the sector, the Committee is concerned about the delay by the Treasury for authority to recruit extension officers. To safeguard the gains achieved in the agricultural sector in the 2024/2025 Farming Season and facilitate the dissemination of climate-smart agricultural practices, the Committee recommends that the recruitment of extension officers be prioritised.

Madam Speaker, finally, the House will recall that the National Assembly approved a loan of US$7.8 million for the Enhanced Smallholder Livestock Investment Programme (E-SLIP) as part of the 2024 Annual Borrowing Plan. However, the end-year performance report of the 2024 Annual Borrowing Plan, submitted by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, indicated that US$7.873 million had been contracted for the programme. This means that about US$73,000 which is more than the amount approved by Parliament was contracted for the programme. Aware that the excess of US$73,000 did not arise from a new loan contraction but from the reallocation of funds from a cancelled project, it nonetheless resulted in an increase in the overall borrowing requirement and the maximum contraction limit approved by the National Assembly. The Committee, therefore, Madam Speaker, recommends that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning should regularise the contractual agreement with the creditor and present the additional US$73,000 for parliamentary approval.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, I wish to extend sincere gratitude to all stakeholders who appeared before your Committee and made oral submissions. I also wish thank you, Madam Speaker, and the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the guidance and support that was rendered to the Committee throughout that important task.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Mulebwa: Now, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mulebwa: Madam Speaker, I rise to second the Motion on the report of the Planning and Budgeting Committee on the Review of the 2024, Budget Performance and 2025 First Quarter Budget Performance.

Madam Speaker, the Committee considered wide-ranging issues pertaining to the implementation of the National Budget across multiple sectors. The mover has ably highlighted the main findings and recommendations. I will, therefore, take this opportunity to underscore three additional, but equally critical areas contained in the Committee's report, which were not extensively covered by the mover of the Motion.

Procurement and Output Delivery Bottlenecks

Madam Speaker, your Committee also noted that delayed procurement processes continued to undermine the achievement of key output targets in the first quarter of 2025. These inefficiencies compromise service delivery and weaken the link between budget allocation and developmental impact.

Your Committee, therefore, calls for accelerated adoption of electronic procurement systems across all ministries, provinces and spending agencies. Investing in procurement reforms will not only reduce delays but also, improve transparency, reduce wastage, and enhance value for money. In addition, a stronger pperformance monitoring and evaluation framework must be instituted to ensure timely implementation and outcome tracking.

Weak Coordination between Provincial Administrations and Line Ministries

Madam Speaker, your Committee raised concern about the lack of synergy between some ministries, provinces, spending agencies and the provincial administrations. This has led to overlapping mandates, inefficient resource use, and duplication in project implementation. To address this, the Committee recommends that the Executive urgently adopts strategies to improve inter-institutional coordination in planning, budgeting and implementation. The Committee further recommends that the Government should consider allocating resources directly to provincial administration to enhance responsiveness and operational efficiency at the sub-national level.

Overshooting of the Approved Debt Ceiling by the Executive

Madam Speaker, your Committee observed that the Government contracted a loan for the Enhanced Smallholder Livestock Investment Programme (E-SLIP) that exceeded the amount approved by the National Assembly under the 2024 Annual Borrowing Plan. While the excess amount may appear minimal in absolute terms, it represents a deviation from the provisions of the Public Debt Management Act and undermines the principle of Parliamentary oversight.

In view of this, the Committee recommends that the Executive should ensure strict adherence to the legal framework in future –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member of Parliament for Kafulafuta, could you speak up. Although you are coming to the end, I am trying to see if the volume can be increased, but it is like the law of diminishing returns.

It is a Friday.

Laughter

Mr Mulebwa: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, ...

Interruptions

Mr Mulebwa: ... I wish to join the mover in commending the Government for maintaining fiscal discipline under challenging circumstances. However, comma, –

Laughter

Mr Mulebwa: It is clear that systemic inefficiencies in project execution inter-agency co-ordination, emergency preparedness, procurement and management must be assessed and addressed if the full potential of the National Budget is to be realised.

With those few words, Madam Speaker, I beg to second.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Full stop, thank you very much.

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving me this opportunity to make a few comments on the Motion moved by the chairperson of the Planning and Budgeting Committee, Hon. Chaatila, on the Budget Performance Review of the 2024 Financial Year and First Quarter of 2025.

Madam Speaker, I will speak to two concerns raised in the report. The first one relates to the matter that has been highlighted by the chairperson, the mover of the Motion, and also spoken to by the seconder. As an institution, we must frown upon people who act with impunity. When we approve ceilings in the House, be it for borrowing or otherwise, people must adhere to the law. There is a law to follow.

Madam Speaker, there is a matter highlighted on page 20 of the report, that is debt contraction above the approved limit. This is speaking to the US$73,000 that was contracted above the approved US$7.8 million contracted for the Enhanced Smallholder Livestock Investment Programme. The provisions of the law, specifically Section 8(7) of the Public Debt Management Act No. 15 of 2022 stipulates that parliamentary approval of the Annual Borrowing Plan constitutes approval of each loan listed herein, and that borrowing outside the approved amounts requires further parliamentary approval. Cognisant of the excess US$73,000, which was contracted, the Committee recommended that the contractual agreement be regularised. . This is breaking the law, and the people found wanting must be dealt with in accordance with the law. Why should people act with impunity? Who benefited from this US$73,000? What was it for? The amount that was brought to this House for approval included the areas in need and the scope of what was going to be catered for. So, why would someone go and sit in a corner and add an amount, for whose benefit? These are the issues we should be frowning upon as an institution. We do not even need to wait for the Auditor-General to flag down this kind of impunity. It is important that as much as the Committee is recommending that we regularise the amount, the people found wanting must be dealt with.

Madam Speaker, the other matter I want to talk about is on page 23 of the report. Which is timely funding. The report states that:

“The Committee urged the Executive to ensure that funds were disbursed timely and consistently as per the monthly profiles. The Committee further recommended that the Executive should be prompt in considering and approving requests for variation of funds to avoid funds being returned to Treasury at the close of the year.”

Madam Speaker, sometimes the act of releasing funds in the last part of the fiscal year looks deliberate. Those who release funds know that if they release funds in the last part of the fiscal year, it is difficult for any spending agency to spend the money before the year ends. I was even surprised and shocked yesterday to hear one Controlling Officer at the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development issue an ultimatum after releasing money for the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). We are in the middle of the year, in July. Funds are released and a forty-eight-hour ultimatum is given. We are all hon. Members of Parliament here, so we know the challenges that our local authorities are going through. Which local authority can spend money in forty-eight hours? Surprisingly, the same Permanent Secretary (PS) who issued that ultimatum is yet to deliver the ambulances procured using the CDF. It is over one year now since the purchase was made. What moral standing does he have to issue such ultimatums to local authorities? So, the issue of –

Mr Mabeta interjected.

Mr Kampyongo: It does not matter; it is the same ministry.

Madam Speaker, if money is released on time, all spending agencies will adhere to the provisions of the law. Many times, we deal with audit queries here at Parliament because people act under pressure. When they are given money at a late hour, they have to circumvent certain procedural matters to spend it. In trying to strike a balance, they end up creating audit queries. So, releasing funds on time is very important.

Madam Speaker, my last concern is on page 24, which is increase in discretionary expenditure. The report states that:

“The Committee noted that a substantial 54 per cent of total expenditure was allocated to discretionary expenditure, leaving only 46 per cent for investment in productive and social sectors.”

Madam Speaker, what this simply means is that when hon. Members pose questions to hon. Ministers as to when communication towers will be taken to Shiwang’andu as promised by the hon. Minister responsible for telecommunications, the answer is that money is not available.

Mr Mubika: Bwekeshepo!

Mr Kampyongo: My hon. Colleagues are agreeing because that is what is happening to all of us.

The money is not available. Why? The huge expenditure going to wrong areas is limiting the Government from undertaking projects as promised. This matter is a serious one. Worse still, the Committee is concerned about the Executive’s response to the same matter. The report states:

“The Committee notes that the Executive has outlined the intention to reduce non-discretionary expenditure. However, the specific policies implemented to improve debt sustainability have not been elaborated in the Executive's response. The Committee requests further information on the specific steps being taken and how they have impacted discretionary expenditure.”

Madam Speaker, all of us hon. Members are concerned. Even when the Government contracts debt, it does not spell out the sustainability of the debt. That is what the Committee is saying. The hon. Minister must give us information for us to be comforted. Now we know why we receive the same copy-and-paste “when funds are available” response. How can funds be available if we are spending 54 per cent on non-discretionary expenditure and only leave 46 per cent on other expenses? This is a huge concern, especially that we just passed the Supplementary Estimates. As we appropriate funds, we must look at how the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is mobilising resources and how he is spending them.

Madam Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for this opportunity you have given me to add my voice to the debate on the Motion to adopt the Report of the Planning and Budgeting Committee on the Budget Performance Review of the 2024 Financial Year and the First Quarter of 2025.

Madam Speaker, I will just comment on a few observations I have made on your Committee’s report, given the situation that was prevailing in 2024. Everyone is aware of the situation that we went through; the severe drought, and how we came out of that situation. It took good planning and governance for us to be where we are, such that the country is still running and none of our people died from hunger, as some people thought we would actually experience. The 2024 National Budget was affected by a severe drought that threatened agriculture, translating into a threat to food security, and the energy sector.

Madam Speaker, Zambia depends on the mining sector largely for its exports; a sector that was also threatened. However, good planning helped us. I know that many people complained about load-shedding, but, of course, some of those decisions were made to ensure that the country is kept going. We could not afford to starve the mining sector of power supply. The situation would have been worse than it is now. Understandably, we managed to go through such a furnace.

Madam Speaker, two Supplementary Budgets were brought to this House for approval to manage the situation because what we had planned for 2024 was disturbed by the drought situation. So, we needed to re-plan and manage the situation. That is why the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning came to this House on two occasions with Supplementary Budgets, mainly targeting to ensure that people were fed amidst a severe drought. That was well managed despite the difficulties we were going through.

Madam Speaker, of course, it was difficult to mobilise finances domestically because even financial institutions were grappling with strained finances to lend. 2024 was a tough year. However, today, if one looks around, one cannot even think that we passed through such a situation last year. That can only be credited to the New Dawn Administration for managing the country under such difficult circumstances.

Madam Speaker, indicators and figures do not lie. We planned and targeted for a gross domestic product (GDP) growth rate of 4.8 per cent at the outset of that fiscal year. We achieved 4 per cent GDP growth, which is remarkable, and I think the New Dawn Administration deserves a pat on the back. We also planned to reduce inflation to between 6 per cent and 8 per cent in the medium-term. However, it was a tall order as, understandably, the cost of food and many other items used to calculate inflation had increased. We actually struggled in that aspect. We landed at about 16.7 per cent inflation. Now, indicators show that we are making improvements towards working on that issue. I can only imagine that, by the end of this year, that rate will definitely reduce.

Madam Speaker, we also targeted our international reserves to be at three months of import cover. You know what? We actually exceeded that target. We are at more than four and half months of import cover. These indicators will show us how diligent this Government is and how it pays attention to doing the correct things. These are not just figures that we should just listen to, rather they are meant to help in times of trouble. For example, if there are any shocks due to the rumours of war and other things that are happening outside, they might have a negative impact on our economy. So, we leverage on these same figures in order to manage the economy.

Madam Speaker, the exchange rate is now improving, and everyone can see for themselves how it is performing. I think, all measures were put in place to ensure that the production of copper, which has started improving, also contributes to what we are going through now.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, the gross domestic product (GDP) increased by 23.4 per cent, exceeding the 22 per cent target. We thought of limiting domestic borrowing to 2.5 per cent of GDP. However, we limited it to 2.2 per cent. I wish the hon. Member for Nkana was here so that he could see these figures. He should be debating based on figures like the others, rather than just making wild statements without looking at the figures. I implore hon. Members to read this report. It is a very good report. It shows how diligent the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government is and the strides it has made. One can easily see where we are going.

Madam Speaker, I will conclude my debate by looking at the fiscal deficit. We were targeting to reduce the fiscal deficit to 4.8 per cent of the GDP, but it was reduced to 3.6 per cent, meaning we are on a trajectory of bringing it to zero. Going by the prudent way we are managing national resources, we might, at some point, have no fiscal deficit.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambita: This gives people a picture of what the UPND Government’s character is. Next year, watch the year. It is expected that we will have a clean sheet.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kampyongo: E Cabinet material iyi!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, first of all, I want to thank the Committee for its report. I wish to echo the words just uttered by Hon. Kambita.It is a good report. I urge colleagues to go through it and take note of what has been said. I also want to acknowledge the shortcomings in what the Committee observed. I take note of the issue of releasing capital funds on time. I also take note of the issue of prioritisation. In general, I take note of all the advice that it has provided, and I thank it for that.

Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. Kambita for his contribution. The key point is that for all the problems cited in the report, we must also always reflect on the question of where we came from. How was the situation four or five years ago? If you look at it from that perspective, you will see that in spite of the shortcomings that have been cited here, the reality is that we have made tremendous improvements in the way the finances of the country are being managed.

Madam Speaker, let me give a few examples. As we all know, the drought of last year, was at another level in the history of this country. However, when we compare the way the drought of last year was handled to droughts of the past, like that of 2019, no one starved last year. During that drought, there were innovative solutions like taking maize back to where it was bought from so that people could buy the maize from nearby places. There were innovations of giving people Cash-for Work so that even those who did not qualify for the social cash transfer (SCT) could go and do some work chosen by the community. They got paid and bought maize from the nearest places.

Madam Speaker, in short, I am saying that if the drought of last year had happened in the previous years, there would have been a disaster in this country. So, this is an example of what I mean when I say that despite the problems sighted in this report, we have made tremendous improvements.

Madam Speaker, with all that, even with the drought we experienced, there was never a time when we said we could no longer afford to pay for school going children. We paid for every school child in country who was willing to go to school.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: We paid for them in spite of the drought. During that time, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) was flowing. So, people were being fed and at the same time, they were seeing development taking place in their areas. In the past, what would happen was that if a bit of money was given for food relief, people would be told, “Sorry, we cannot build a school, hospital and do this and that because we are feeding you.” This time, we are doing everything. We are feeding people and we are still bringing development at unprecedented levels.

Madam Speaker, once again, I want to thank the Committee for its work. I think this Government is very proud of its record of managing the public finances. People can see that, as Her Honour the Vice-President was saying this morning, public money is now being utilised for the benefit of the public. This is why even when we come and ask for more taxes, we know very well that the money is going back to the same communities that are paying the taxes because it will go to their schools, water wells and so on. So, I really, want to thank the team that we have and thank you, Madam Speaker, for your guidance as we discuss these things.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chaatila: Madam Speaker, indeed, I will wind up under one minute.

Madam Speaker, I want to thank you for this opportunity. I also want to thank the members who have debated like hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, the hon. Member for Zambezi East and lastly, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for their input. I now seek the support of all hon. Members of this House.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.

Madam Speaker: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

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The House adjourned at 1255 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 9^th July, 2025.

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