Friday, 20^th June, 2025

 

The House met at 0900 hours

 

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

 

_______

 

ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM SPEAKER

 

MEDICAL SCREENING BY FOREST PARK SPECIALISED HOSPITAL

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that Forest Park Specialised Hospital has been granted permission to conduct a free medical outreach exercise for hon. Members of Parliament and staff. The exercise will focus on screening and health checks aimed at promoting early diagnosis and intervention. It will be conducted from Monday, 23^rd to Thursday, 26^th June, 2025, from 0900 hours to 1600 hours, and on Friday, 27^th June, 2025 from 0900 hours to 1300 hours at the Main Reception area, Parliament Main Building. Interested hon. Members are, therefore, encouraged to take advantage of this opportunity and participate in the exercise.

 

I thank you.

 

PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM NEW SOUTH-CENTRAL ACADEMY

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence in the Public Gallery of pupils and teachers from New South-Central Academy in Lusaka District.

 

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

 

I thank you.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! 

 

PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM SHAKESPEARE COLLEGE

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence in the Public Gallery of pupils and teachers from Shakespeare College in Lusaka District.

 

 On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

 

I thank you.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

_______

 

BUSINESS STATEMENT

 

The Vice- President (Mrs Nalumango):  Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the House Business Committee met on Thursday, 19^th June, 2025, to determine and schedule Business of the House for the period from 24^th June to 4^th July, 2025.

 

Madam Speaker, the House Business resolved to lay before the House the following business for consideration in the next two weeks:

 

Announcements

 

The Hon. Madam Speaker may make announcements, if there will be any.

 

Rulings

 

The Hon. Madam Speaker will render rulings, if there will be any.

 

Ministerial Statements

 

Hon. Ministers will render Ministerial Statements on topical issues, if there will be any.

 

Reports on International Conferences

 

Reports on International Conferences will be considered, if there will be any.

 

Bills

 

The Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill, No. 7 of 2025 will be presented for First Reading on 25^th June, 2025.                                                                             

 

Parliamentary Committee Reports

 

The following Committee reports will be considered:

 

1. The Report of the Committee on National Guidance and Gender Matters on the Operations of the Department of National Guidance and Religious Affairs on 24^th June, 2025;

 

1. The Report of the Committee on Local Government, Housing and Chiefs Affairs on the Implementation of Sector Devolution Plans in Zambia on 24^th June, 2025;

 

1. The Report of the Committee on Media, Information and Communication Technologies on Digital Migration in Zambia on 25^th June, 2025;

 

1. The Report of the Committee on Legal Affairs, Human Rights and Governance on the Review of Legislation Governing State of Emergencies in Zambia on 26^th June, 2025;

 

1. The Report of the Committee on Transport, Works and Supply on the Review of the Rail Transport in Zambia on 27^th June, 2025;

 

1. The Report of the Committee on Youth, Sports and Child Matters on the Review of Government Interventions on Streetism in Zambia on 1^st July, 2025;

 

1. The Report of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Affairs on the Review of the State of Infrastructure in Defence Forces on 2^nd July, 2025; and

 

1. The Report of the Committee on Transport, Works and Supply on the Special Audit Report on the Road Development Agency for the Financial Year Ended 31^st December, 2017 to 2022 on 3^rd July, 2025.

 

Private Members’ Motions

 

The following hon. Members will present Private Members’ Motions:

 

1. Mr F. Kapyanga, MP, will move a Motion entitled Establish Online Job Portals and Platforms to Connect Employment Seekers and Employers on 25^th June, 2025;

 

1. Mr A. Katakwe, MP, will move a Motion entitled Regulate the use of Artificial Intelligence on 25^th June, 2025; and

 

1. Mr F. Kapyanga, MP, will move and Motion entitled Promote Annual Health Check-up among Citizens on 2^nd July, 2025.

 

Questions

 

Hon. Ministers will respond to forty-six Questions for Oral and Written Answer. The Questions are contained in Appendix I of this Statement, which will be circulated to all hon. Members. Further, the details of the Questions are contained in the Notice of Questions of 13^th September, 2024, 5^th March, 2025, and 20^th June, 2025, which have already been circulated to all hon. Members.

 

 Questions on Standby

 

The Questions on Standby to replace Questions that may not be placed on the Order Paper on the designated day due to unforeseen circumstances are contained in Appendix II, which will be circulated to all hon. Members.

 

Madam Speaker, on behalf of the House Business Committee, and in accordance with Order No. 44 of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024, I have the pleasure to present the business for the next two weeks to this august House.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

_______

 

URGENT MATTERS WITHOUT NOTICE

 

Madam Speaker: I am sure, this segment, on Fridays, does not even add value. Anyway, that is just my thought.

 

I will only allow three hon. Members to ask the questions. So, if you are thinking of the next item, then, you are way ahead of us.

 

So, I will start with the hon. Member for Chienge.

 

REV. KATUTA, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR CHIENGE, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, MR MWIIMBU, SC., ON RESERVE POLICE OFFICERS

 

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): On an Urgent Matter without Notice, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: An Urgent Matter without Notice is raised.

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me the chance, on behalf of the people of Chienge, to raise an important Urgent Matter without Notice, which is directed to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

 

Madam Speaker, last week, we debated reserve police officers. Three days ago, a nineteen-year-old young man by the name of Smart Musonda, who lives in Ng’ombe Compound, was coming home from work after he had knocked off around midnight. On his way home, he was chased by people he considered to be thieves. The reserve police officers who chased him were in plain clothes. The young man had to run for his life. Unfortunately, they arrested him and took him to Chudleigh Police Post. The young man was badly beaten.

 

Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence. Do reserve police officers have the right to beat up a so-called suspect in the thing they call ‘shishita’? This is a very innocent young man who is working so that he can rewrite his science examination.

 

 Madam Speaker, I need your serious ruling. Why should reserve police officers beat up somebody’s child in that manner and take him to Chudleigh Police Post? His parents had to look for him everywhere.

 

Mr Chaatila: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much.

 

There was an indication for a point of order?

 

Mr Chaatila: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Moomba, you have the Floor.

 

Mr Chaatila: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of procedure. Our Standing Orders are very clear, in terms of raising an Urgent Matter without Notice.

 

Madam Speaker, firstly, is the hon. Member for Chienge in order to not have read the provisions of the Standing Orders regarding the issue she is raising? Secondly, is she in order to raise such a matter which does not qualify?

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

 

Mr Chaatila: When you look at all the provisions under–

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

 

Mr Chaatila: Madam Speaker, lastly, is the House in order to not call for a workshop, especially for hon. Colleagues in the Patriotic Front (PF)? If you follow, you will note that most of the time, 90 per cent of matters they raise do not qualify to be Urgent Matters without Notice. When is the House going to call for a workshop so that hon. Members are aware of what is provided for?

 

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.     

 

Madam Speaker: Now, I do not even know what is happening.

 

Okay, thank you, hon. Member for Moomba. First of all, we do not raise points of order on points of procedure. So, the point of order is out of order. In terms of the other issues that you have raised, you have gone before me. I believe I am the one who is supposed to make a ruling on whether or not an Urgent Matter without Notice qualifies to be admitted as such. I know, it is Friday so people are anxious to go to their constituencies.

 

Hon. Member for Chienge, I believe that if you have any question regarding that one incident, first of all, you can raise it with the hon. Minister. I am not sure whether the hon. Minister is aware of that issue.  Secondly, if there is a problem with the manner in which the police are discharging their functions, I believe there is a Police Public Complaints Commission, where you can go and lodge that complaint. It was one incident; it was not all over the country or widespread. So, it is difficult to order the hon. Minister or to request him to come with a Ministerial Statement on such a matter. In short, the matter does not qualify to be admitted as an Urgent Matter without Notice. Kindly explore other means and ways that those police officers can answer for their actions, if at all the incident happened.

 

I believe the Police Public Complaints Commission is functional. It is still there.

 

MS NYIRENDA, HON. MEMBER FOR LUNDAZI, ON HER HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT, MRS NALUMANGO, ON THE BY-ELECTION IN LUMEZI CONSTITUENCY

 

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): On an Urgent Matter without Notice, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: An Urgent Matter without Notice is raised.

 

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, the Urgent Matter without Notice I wish to raise is directed to Her Honour the Vice-President of the Republic of Zambia. I know that Fridays are about the Vice-President.

 

Madam Speaker: You may proceed, hon. Member.

 

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, good morning to Her Honour the Vice-President.

 

Madam Speaker, the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ), not the Examinations Council of Zambia (ECZ), is under the Vice-President’s office. What is obtaining in Lumezi is quite worrying.   

 

Mr Nkandu: Question!

 

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, allow me to inform her what the members of the United Party for National Development (UPND) are doing.

 

 Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Ms Nyirenda: Our people deserve to choose a leader whom they want, whether from the UPND, the National Congress Party (NCP) or any other political party, because Zambia is a democratic nation.

 

Madam Speaker, what is obtaining in Lumezi is over all the media. The people who are running the campaigns for the UPND have taken voters’ cards and National Registration Cards (NRCs) …

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Ms Nyirenda: … from would-be voters in Lumezi.

 

Madam Speaker, yesterday, there was conflict resolution between the ECZ and the UPND camp. The UPND members admitted to taking the voters’ cards and NRCs.

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, they can ‘question’ because they are losing in Lumezi.

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Lundazi, please, wind up. You have two minutes, and you have run out of time.

 

Can you wind up. Ask your question.

 

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, would Her Honour the Vice-President, please, intervene and allow our people to choose the leader whom they want, in peace, without being taken advantage of and being offered money in exchange of NRCs and voters’ cards.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Lundazi, our Standing Orders are clear on what matters we can raise as Urgent Matters without Notice. In terms of electoral disputes, I believe that is why the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) is there. In your statement, you alluded to the fact that a conflict resolution meeting was held. So, if there are any challenges of that nature, I believe they should be referred to the ECZ for resolution. Thirdly, matters that are brought before this House should, first of all, be factual and verifiable. You have made some allegations for which you have not rendered any evidence to lay on the Table of the House to prove that what you are saying is, indeed, factual and verifiable. So, in short, the matter you have raised is not admissible.

 

MR KAMPYONGO, HON. MEMBER FOR SHIWANG’ANDU, ON THE VICE-PRESIDENT, ON CHALLENGES IN SETTLING MATTERS CONCERNING THE NATIONAL FUNERAL

 

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): On an Urgent Matter without Notice, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: An Urgent Matter without Notice is raised by the hon. Member for

Shiwang’andu.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker, the Urgent Matter without Notice I am raising is directed at Her Honour the Vice-President.

 

Madam Speaker, this country, Zambia, is known for having been at the centre of regional conflict resolution efforts, which saw many countries become Independent under difficult circumstances. His Excellency the President addressed the nation yesterday, making pronouncements regarding the national funeral that we have and –

 

Mr Mwene: Malilo yanasila!

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Kampyongo: The unruly behaviour that is coming from that end must be dealt with, Madam Speaker.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Members, please, can we observe –

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Kampyongo was still upstanding.

 

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Shiwang’andu!

 

You have asked me to assist. So, when I say “Order!”, you are required to resume your seat.

 

Hon. Members on my far right, please, desist from interjecting while you are seated. Let us allow the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu to ask the question, and then it will be answered appropriately, depending on what the question is about. So, please, do not take it upon yourselves to respond to the points that have been raised.

 

Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, you may continue.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, the pronouncements from the Head of State were clear in guiding the way forward. That done, the remains of the former Head of State are still in the Republic of South Africa. I would like to ask Her Honour the Vice-President where we are missing it in settling the matters?

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, people can trivialise, …

 

Madam Speaker: Order, order!

 

Mr Kampyongo: … but what we decide today will have a serious bearing on the nation going forward.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

 

Mr Kampyongo: You may joke and say, “Question!”, but we only have one sitting President remaining. If that does not concern you, then, you must be very shallow politicians.

 

Madam Speaker, collective wisdom requires us to provide leadership in any given situation. Where are we missing it? This institution that Her Honour the Vice-President is part of, as the Leader of Government Business in the House, is provided for –

 

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Shiwang’andu!

 

You have run out of time. It is two minutes already. Maybe, let me give guidance.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I would like to know from Her Honour the Vice-President –

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, let me give guidance.

 

First of all, from what you have said so far, the matter does not qualify to be raised as an Urgent Matter without Notice. Maybe, you can ask that question during the Vice-President’s Question Time. Maybe, that will be the appropriate time. 

 

Mr Kampyongo: Well guided, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Then we can ­

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: O rder!

 

_______

 

THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

 

Madam Speaker: Okay, for this, let us start with the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu.

 

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, thank you very much. I certainly do not take this privilege for granted. I appreciate it.

 

Madam Speaker, I am asking this question because we have been known to be One Zambia, One Nation. This is a country that has championed conflict resolutions in the region and overseen critical events in the region, including the recent democratic elections in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). I would like to find out from the Her Honour the Vice-President what the challenge is in settling the matter of the national funeral that we have, regarding the former Head of State, Dr Edgar Chagwa Lungu’s remains, which remain in the Republic of South Africa (RSA). Where are we missing it?

 

Madam Speaker, the institution that Her Honour the Vice-President is a part of is provided for in the Constitution to the extent that when there is a challenge in the nation, the President can even call this institution even in its dissolution. What role is Her Honour the Vice-President playing, as Leader of Government Business in the House, in seeing that this matter is resolved?

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu for that question and concern. I should believe that it is everybody’s concern. In fact, we should ask why we have failed this far.

 

Madam Speaker, I will start with the last part in which he asked about the role I am playing. I believe that he asked me, as the Leader of Government Business in the House. I will say this: We work collectively. We are one Government. In this matter, I am within the Government and its efforts. I am part it. I will not remove myself from what this Government has been doing. The efforts of the Government in ensuring that even during a funeral, Zambia can remain united and that we mourn our late President together. The hon. Member has asked about where we are missing it. We are missing it because – sometimes, you do not want to say what is in your heart, but you have to say it – we want the late President to continue to play politics in his death. We want to use him to play politics. The man is gone, please. Let us not be political in the manner we approach the death of a man. Whether we like it or not, we were there. Some people were in this House, including my son (pointing at Mr Kampyongo). He was our President for seven years. This Government has admitted that, and everything that is accrued to the head of state in death was made available. So, where is this challenge coming from? Why are the demands –

 

Madam Speaker, my son knows that the dead do not speak where he comes from. So, where is this loud voice? I am speaking just as human. It is heart breaking that we can use this to play politics. Can we allow, if possible– there is still room. The President said that we have done what we can. Somebody made fun – Maybe, I should not refer to that, but I read something. Somebody said, “Eeh, ngeichi icimanda baimba, balatwala kwisa? The grave was dug in preparation for burying our leader. Where are we missing it? I cannot give the hon. Member the answer because on this side where I am part of, we have done everything possible to ensure that our former leader is buried with dignity, and in the country that he led. At least, he has that bit. So, let people calm down, withdraw, and let the family make an independent decision. What are we resolving? For me, I would have loved to see the former President buried with the honour he deserves. Like I said last week, please, do not use him. He did his part for this country. We know there will be fights in the Opposition about who will take over from him. Let us leave that to them, but let us allow the nation to rest.

 

Madam Speaker, I do not know where we are failing. The decision was squarely in the hands of the so-called family. I do not think a family consists of two people and a lawyer. A family is larger than that. We are Zambians; we understand. Where are the uncles to make a decision for the family? I appeal to the family through the hon. Member’s question – We did everything. I do not want to go into other issues of a contract. What is a contract? These are some of the issues being said, but let me not add what the hon. Member did not ask for. To me, the matter is in the hands of the people who want to play politics over the body of a man who cannot speak for himself anymore.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Madam Speaker, I thank Her Honour the Vice-President, for responding to my older brother, Hon. Kampyongo, in a very mature manner.

 

Mr Kafwaya: How?

 

Interruptions

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Immature?

 

Mr Michelo: Are you following? Maybe, you are lost.

 

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

 

Let us not engage one another. Hon. Member for –

 

Mr Michelo: Maybe you are lost, Sir. Be in the House.

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Members –

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

 

 Please, do not debate while seated. Allow the hon. Member for Bweengwa to ask the question. I do not know why you are taking offence in him saying, “Thank you for answering the question in a mature manner” and you are saying, “How?”  What is so offensive about that? Let us tone down. Let us cool down. Bola panshi, bola panshi.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Laughter

 

Hon. Members: Bola panshi!

 

Madam Speaker: Meaning, please, let us keep the ball down. Let us cool down.

 

May the hon. Member for Bweengwa continue.

 

Mr Michelo: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I do not know if it is an offence to commend Her Honour the Vice-President.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Bweengwa, ask your question.

 

Mr Michelo: Thank you very much.

 

Madam Speaker, allow me, first of all, to commend the Republican President for addressing the nation yesterday and indicating that the funeral is now over. Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, may his soul rest in peace, was our Republican President. We were anxiously waiting to receive his body in a dignified manner.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Members, if we continue like this, I will skip all the questions relating to that issue.

 

Mr Michelo: This disorganised gang of criminals is disturbing me, Madam.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Michelo: Madam Speaker, may Her Honour the Vice-President kindly tell us what is happening in South Africa. Is it not an offence to keep holding on to the body, and not bring it for burial? Or is it now a new norm to hold on to the body, when we lose one of our family members? Should we continue keeping the body in the mortuary indefinitely? Is it not an offence? May Her Honour the Vice-President, furnish the nation with information on whether what the family of Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu and the Tonse Alliance are doing is the correct way to do things. What are we, the Zambian people, especially the young ones, learning from this?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for his question. His concern is what is happening in South Africa. If I heard him correctly, he asked if there was an offence being committed in South Africa by holding on to the body of our late Former President?

 

Madam Speaker, it may be untraditional, uncultural or unZambian, but there is no offence that we can pick on. Maybe, the big lawyers can help. However, standing here, I do not think I can say there is an offence being committed. If an offence is being committed, I think, the State would take steps to arrest it. I do not think there is any law that can guide us against holding on to the body. It may be unZambian, uncultural, or untraditional, but no law is being broken. I cannot say they are committing an offence.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Charles Mulenga (Kwacha): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me an opportunity to ask Her Honour the Vice-President a question.

 

Madam Speaker, in the recent past, we have witnessed a sharp gain in the foreign exchange rate. The Kwacha was trading around K29 against US$1, but it has now come down to around K23, as of today. This, of course, has necessitated the reduction of fuel, which I believe all of us know is the driving engine of our economy. However, we have not seen a corresponding reduction in the prices of various commodities and services in the country. What measures is the Government putting in place to ensure that Zambians start benefiting from the reduction in fuel pump prices, especially on bus fares in the country?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Kwacha for that question and, indeed, for taking note of the reduction in the exchange rate. He said that our Kwacha is gaining against the Dollar. That is very important. The Kwacha has gained from almost K29, against US$1 to K23, as of yesterday. Very important! I think, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning needs to come to the House to explain what is happening in the economy. Very important!

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member’s concern is that there is no corresponding reduction in the cost of fuel. In the same breath, he acknowledged that the fuel pump price has gone down not so? So, he probably meant to refer to the cost of living or cost of other commodities. I think, that is an issue that we have discussed so many times.

 

Madam Speaker, what we are seeing in the exchange rate is very good for our economy. We just pray that the Kwacha continues to record gains despite external factors. Hon. Members may recall that we came up with wonderful policies that would have made the Kwacha even stronger. However, due to external influences, such as wars, our currency has not performed as anticipated. I hope Zambians are all following what is happening on the international scene. We need to understand the effect of the war that has broken out between Iran and Israel on the cost and flow of fuel globally. I have been following the issue in the media. We need to ask ourselves how resilient the Kwacha is going to be in such a situation. That is the question and issue we should work on.

 

Madam Speaker, the final part of the hon. Member’s question was on the corresponding effect of the exchange rate on the price of goods in the country. That takes a bit of time. I remember standing here in 2022 and saying that a reduction in commodity prices cannot happen immediately. Commodity prices respond to what is happening in the economy gradually. People buy things based on movements in prices. If the exchange rate continues with the current trend, I sure everyone will see a reduction in the cost of living. The Kwacha getting stronger reduces the cost of things that come from outside the country. So, if we sustain the gains that the Kwacha is making and it keeps on getting stronger, markets will start to respond. That is the way I understand the issue. So, we need to hold on because things have just started to work well and they will continue to get better for the Zambian people.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Dr Andeleki (Katombola): Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing the people of Katombola to ask the Vice-President a question. Her Honour the Vice-President, good morning.

 

Madam Speaker, the question of the people of Katombola is on the Cash-for–Work Programme. Just like the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), that programme is transforming the lives of people in Katombola Constituency. Can Her Honour the Vice-President assure us that the Cash-for-Work Programme will not only continue, but the disbursed amounts will increase in the years to come, since people are benefitting from it.  It has become a source of income for those who have no employment. What is the Government’s position regarding the petition from people around the country for the Cash-for-Work Programme to continue?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, a good morning as well to the hon. Member for Katombola. His concern is on the Cash-for-Work Programme. He also mentioned other social service interventions that are going on in our communities, such as the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Those social interventions are important in tackling poverty and hunger.

 

Madam Speaker, the House will recall that programmes such as the Cash-for-Work were introduced during the time of a serious drought. The cry of people now, as the hon. Member has reported, is that such programmes should continue. The people’s Government is listening. We have seen how such programmes are helping in the improvement of people’s livelihoods. In this regard, I want to say that under the leadership of President Hakainde Hichilema, we will continue with those programmes as far as we can so that our people are well taken care of.

 

Madam Speaker, it is important to note that the purpose of social interventions is not for people to just have a meal every day. They are meant to build mechanisms for people to have better lives. So, we need to inform our people that the resources they get from such programmes are not just for food. They are supposed to use that income to build their own capacity. God has been merciful by giving us good rainfall in the last season So, how did people use the resources they got from the Cash-for-Work Programme, for instance, in the last farming season? Let us help people by ensuring that they invest a little from the resources they get from social programmes to improve their communities. So, the intention of the Government is to keep social intervention programmes on the cards for as long as we can.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, I would like to send greetings to Her Honour the Vice-President from the people of 28 Shaft Mine.

 

Madam Speaker, we have witnessed several crashes between the men and women in uniform, specifically the army, and people in certain communities. Allow me to cite a few examples briefly. Some years back, there was commotion at a place called Kalweo, where the army went into the community and beat the hell out of people. Not long ago, I witnessed a confrontation between Zambia Army officers at Kalewa Barracks and police officers in Kansenshi.  The army officers crossed into Kansenshi and hammered officers who were at the reception of the police station and locked them in the cells. Not long ago, the same happened in Mufulira. Again, army officers went into the community and hammered whoever was in their path.

 

Mr B. Mpundu: Including Mabeta.

 

Mr J. Chibuye: Yes, including the hon. Member of Parliament for Mufulira.

 

 Madam Speaker, a few days ago, we saw the same happening when army officers went into a named community and pounced on a defenseless poor human being, who later died. As a legislator, I am worried about that trend. What is the Government doing to ensure that such incidents come to a stop? Sometimes, a lone army officer goes into a community and provokes people. Thereafter, the officer goes back to his colleagues and gets them to beat up whoever they find in the community.  Does Her Honour the Vice-President not think that one day that scourge can turn into a very serious issue, whereby community members will now start defending themselves from the army?

 

Mr Mabeta entered the Assembly Chamber.

 

Madam Speaker: It is said that when you talk about an angel, he will appear.

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kankoyo, it has been said that you were manhandled by the army.

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I missed the joke. Is it the hon. Member for Kankoyo who was hammered?

 

Mr B. Mpundu: Clobbered.

 

The Vice-President: We are now hearing that he was clobbered. So, what really happened? Maybe, we can be given details later on what happened.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Roan has asked a very serious and important question. He said that there have been clashes between men in uniform and people in communities. I think that is what he said.

 

Madam Speaker, I just want to summarise the question as I understood it. Other than the incident in Mufulira, the hon. Member talked about an incident in Kalweo, which is in Kapiri Mposhi, that happened some time back. He also talked about things that have happened in Kalewa Barracks, Mufulira and Kabwe. From his explanation, personal battles turn into community confrontations because men in uniform call their friends to go and fight.

 

Madam Speaker, the question was: What is the Government doing to curb that scourge? I think that it is an issue of discipline. Indiscipline officers are normally punished. Those who are caught up in such incidents are normally identified, isolated and punished. That is what the Government expects to be done. Some officers even lose their jobs when they are found wanting. Basically, their issues are dealt with within their rank and file, and there are disciplinary procedures that are followed. No one gets away. As long as one is identified, one gets isolated and punished. The punishment can go up to the point of dismissal. If it goes beyond that, I think, the more serious law takes over. If there is evidence that a person was murdered, I think, that takes a serious angle and punishment is meted out according to the offence.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr P. Phiri (Mkaika): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me the chance to ask Her Honour the Vice-President a question.

 

Madam Speaker, yesterday, I posed a question as an Urgent Matter without Notice, concerning the issuance of National Registration Cards (NRCs) in Katete and other districts in the Eastern Province. The exercise has come to a standstill. I want to know from the Executive as to when it will send materials so the exercise can continue. As you may be aware, next year is an election year. So, many of our people need to get NRCs to enable them to exercise their right to vote. When is the Executive going to send materials so that the exercise can continue in the whole Eastern Province?

 

The Vice-President conferred with Mr Mwiimbu, SC.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I was trying to get a proper response.

 

Madam Speaker, if I heard the hon. Member for Mkaika well, the question is that the issuance of National Registration Cards (NRCS) in the Eastern Province, particularly Katete, is at a standstill because of a lack of materials. I am informed that materials were distributed everywhere. However, if they have run out, I think, it would be good for the hon. Member to also go to the offices and inquire from there because the materials are there. However, if they are not there, let us follow up because every Zambian has a right to obtain an NRC as long as one is of age. This is a special time for everybody. I know, we are all thinking of elections next year. So, follow it up because I cannot give evidence here on whether the materials are there or not. Follow up with the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security to ensure that the materials are there. There are officers giving out the NRCs. Are they giving feedback, or they are enjoying sitting and doing nothing? I think, that is where it should start from.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, in line with the situation which arose in 2024, that of a critical drought, the Government came up with a number of interventions. Those interventions brought relief to many people, including those in Kalabo. It is not known as to when the interventions will come to an end. Like the hon. Member for Katombola has stated, regarding the issue of the Emergency Cash Transfer, which was under the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services, the Government has not stated how long the programme will run, and this has raised a big question in our communities. Help us by letting us know when the Emergency Cash Fund, which has worked very well and assisted many people, will come to an end. We need to know.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing us to discuss this, and I also thank the hon. Member for the question.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member has spoken of the critical drought which made the Government put in place several interventions to help the people go through the drought period. His concern is on when the programme will come to an end. The Government has evaluated the issue. There are some permanent programmes, such as the Social Cash Transfer, which included the Emergency Cash Transfer. I think, sometimes, we over-discuss issues. We were told that some programmes would come to an end after the drought, but that others would continue. So, generally, the issue that came outside the Social Cash Transfer programme was only the Emergency Cash Transfer programme. The rest fall under the Social Cash Transfer. I think, there should be no anxiety as to when the programme will come to an end. I think, we should appreciate it if it is still going on, and not worry so much about when it will come to an end. It is still going on. We will come back to the House and say, “This is where the programme ends.” We also need to look at the Budget and see how the programme was budgeted for. Hon. Colleagues, I hope you understand what I am trying to say here.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, during last night's President’s Address in which the President updated the nation on the current standoff between the Government and the family of the Sixth Republican President, the late Edgar Chagwa Lungu, the President announced that the period of national mourning has officially come to an end. However, he left a window of opportunity, that the Government can further engage the family to reach a consensus. Now, in the event that the Government and the family reach an agreement, will the Government consider extending the period of national mourning?

 

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank my hon. Colleague, the hon. Member for Chama North, whose question borders on the announcement yesterday, that the period of national mourning has come to an end. Of course, we have not yet buried. Now, he is asking whether – I did not even get him properly. Did he ask whether there should be an extension of the period of mourning?

 

Madam Speaker: He was asking whether there will be consideration to extend the period of mourning in the event that some agreement is reached.

 

That is what the question was.

 

The Vice-President: In the event?

 

Madam Speaker: That an agreement is reached between the family and the Government.

 

The Vice-President: I think, that is a lot of speculation. The President did not close the door completely. Listening to him, he used the word ‘reasonable.’ So, we are looking at reasonableness, here. Definitely, the President said that the former President’s body will be buried here. That is the gist of the matter. What is reasonable? I think, it is those who may want to pursue it. As at now, what conditions have changed for us to discuss the extension? I have been sitting here, or have I been standing? However, I have not been told of any new development. The President did not close the door. He talked of what is making us fail. It is up to those who feel that the situation has failed, but now it can work. He did not fully close the door but, I think, the issue should be one word. I hope I am not adding to what he said in his statement, but I think that he talked of a reasonable agreement, not things that we are dreaming of, things that do not happen. Having an extension today would mean that there are conditions that have been met by those who want to create conditions.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mubika (Shangombo): Madam Speaker, last year, we had hunger induced by drought. This year, as a county, we have recorded a bumper harvest. Unfortunately, Shangombo and Sioma in the Western Province, have failed to record a bumper harvest because of the elephants that trooped into the villages to destroy what the people had harvested, even the huts, for Hon. Sikumba’s information.

 

Madam Speaker, at the moment, the hunger situation in Shangombo and Sioma has continued. The Government had introduced good programmes, such as the Social Cash Transfer (SCT) and enhanced drought emergency funds, when we had the drought. Now that the Government is going to withdraw the programmes in some parts, is it not going to consider assisting the people of Shangombo and Sioma, whose crops were destroyed by elephants? The hunger situation has continued in those two constituencies. Yesterday, I heard that the Government has started reducing the SCT allowance from K800 to K400. Is the Government not going to consider those two districts so that the people can be assisted? The situation is not their making, but because of the elephants, which are the Government trophies.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, this is a question that the hon. Member – I think all of us in this House, will remember that year in and year out, the situation is the same. As the Government, we have not left the people of Shangombo or Sioma to die. We should remember that the support through social services to the people has never ceased. Believe you me, there are areas where the rainfall was good but, for some reason, some areas experienced some kind of drought. The Government always looks at issues case by case. I think, that is the way we have worked; looked at issues case by case. We have not left anybody to die because of a drought that has affected one area or, indeed, because of animals, which the hon. Member referred to, when he mentioned Hon. Sikumba.

 

Madam Speaker, I think that support will always continue where there is a genuine problem. It has not been withdrawn from anybody in that part of the country, during this time.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Rev. Katuta: Pampamina icamunobe cibe icobe!

 

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, Pampamine icamunobe cibe icobe! That is what Hon. Rev. Katuta is whispering to me.

 

Madam Speaker, Her Honour the Vice-President –

 

Madam Speaker: You mentioned something, hon. Member for Lunte.

 

Mr Kafwaya: She is whispering to say, “Pampamine icamunobe cibe icobe”. So, I am asking her why she is saying that when I am asking a question.

 

Madam Speaker: What does that mean?

 

Hon Member: It means, “God is good.”

 

Laughter

 

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker –

 

Madam Speaker: Some people like asking questions while seated.

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: You may proceed, hon. Member.

 

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Madam Speaker, the United Nations (UN) Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Opinion and Expression has finalised her report on Zambia. She noted numerous human rights violations consistent with those we have been observing and putting to Her Honour the Vice-President. Why does Her Honour the Vice-President think that the report is consistent with what we, in the Opposition, have been telling her and has been refusing? Does she think that the UN is now supporting the Opposition for the report to be consistent with the assertions of the Opposition on her Government’s violation of human rights in Zambia?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I do not think I would be competent enough to speak on that report today. However, the little I know is that there is a lot of exaggeration on the actual report. It is not that the United Nations (UN) Special Rapporteur’s report has wholesomely condemned the country. It is important to pick out other pieces. There may be concerns, but we are dealing with many of them, and that fact was noted. The hon. Member should also see the commendations of the Government in the same report. He should not just read one way. There are commendations in that report on this country and the efforts that we are making. I think, I know what it is. When one is reading something, one only takes the part that seems to favour oneself, but, please –

 

Interruptions

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, in his question, the hon. Member said, “We, as the Opposition, have been telling you.”  Now, I am saying that he went through the report but only noted one issue that is of his concern.  That is the favour I am talking about. However, one also needs to read the full report to see the good things that were said about the Government.  We, as the Government, do not see that report as ‘damning’, if I can use that word. It is not a bad report. Let us just read it objectively.  At the right time, if the hon. Member wants, the hon. Minister can speak to that report. We can also speak to that report properly under the ministry responsible for justice.

 

Mr Kafwaya interjected.

 

The Vice-President: Now you are asking me, but I cannot even hear you.

 

Madam Speaker, what I am saying is that we should not make the report seem like Zambia was condemned. No! There are more commendations or recommendations than the concerns that have been raised.  That is what I am made to believe.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi): Madam Speaker, in the 2024/2025 Farming Season, the Government registered a whopping 3.5 million metric tonnes of maize, which was a bumper harvest. The bumper harvest did not come about by accident, but as a result of political will and many interventions that the Government implemented. Now, what target is our Government setting in the coming farming season and what interventions is it putting in place to ensure that we sustain those gains, as we continue to eliminate hunger in this country?

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Itezhi-Tezhi for taking note of what has happened, that the country, after the drought, has produced a bumper harvest of 3. – You said 3.8?

 

Mr Mutinta interjected.

 

The Vice-President: I thought it was 3.7 when rounded off.

 

Madam Speaker, that is due to good political will.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, let us accept that it is the truth, because the President has been speaking about increased production. In fact, the target is 10 million metric tonnes, which we may not set for this coming season, but gradually, we should head to that. As regards the interventions, basically, one does not change the winning team. That is what you say, eh?

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, basically, the interventions that are in place will continue and will even get better. The availability of fertiliser at the right time is very important, and the Electronic Voucher (e-Voucher) System makes participation better. The production of fertiliser locally is helping, as is the involvement of hon. Members of Parliament.

 

Interruptions

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, we should all participate. At least, if we produce our own food, then we would have reduced hunger in the country. So, we will continue with the interventions that are in place and we expect more participation. Actually, we could have produced more, but others were discouraged, especially when the rainfall seemed to slow down, and they pulled back. However, we are expectant that if God gives us more rainfall this season, there will be more production of maize and other food crops. In his statement, the hon. Minister of Agriculture also spoke about the production of other products like millet, sorghum, beans, and so on and so forth. So, everything is improving, and things will be better under the good political will of the President of this Republic and the entire team. That is the way to work, and the team may just include the hon. Members of Parliament.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, I will draw Her Honour the Vice-President’s attention to the economy. Even with the challenges that we have had of the drought and power deficit, our economy seems to continue to grow. However, there is one concern amongst the youths especially the skilled ones who are graduating from universities who could be lawyers, economists or doctors, being that of the non-availability of jobs. On one hand, the Government has been able to address the issue of unskilled labour through the Cash-for-Work programme, which is working out very well, but on the other hand, the group of educated youths feels left out. Are there any practical measures the Government will be carrying out to ensure that those young children who are just in homes and benefited from the loans board can actively start contributing to the economy? Are there any practical measures that Her Honour the Vice-President could announce to give hope to those young children?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kantanshi for appreciating the fact that the economy is growing. However, maybe, he is seeing a challenge in terms of how we are handling the specialised fields of work. He said that we have catered for unskilled labour. I thank him for that, and he also referred to the Cash-for-Work programme and other interventions. However, his concern for today is about the jobs for the people who are trained like lawyers, doctors and others. I hope I got him correctly.

 

Madam Speaker, I will not fear his economic background; it is important for him to understand that when the economy is genuinely growing, it means that it is catering for everybody. That includes the category he has talked about. How is the Government helping them? It may not be practically written in black and white, but when the economy is growing, the skilled ones are also catered for. The companies that are opening need the services of lawyers. So, that is the way of catering for such specialised fields. They also get employed in different fields in the private sector. I live in Lusaka, and if we look around, the doctor there (pointed at Hon. Chilufya) would agree with me that more hospitals are opening around Lusaka and who are working there? It is the young Zambian doctors. So, let us concentrate on how to grow the economy. It is not for the Government to employ everybody, but to facilitate growth so that the trained personnel can also find space in the private sector. So, the Government is working. Let us work together and grow the economy. The country will absorb and people will even be able to set up their own companies. That is the purpose of training these people.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: At least, twelve hon. Members asked questions. I think, it is a good improvement.

 

We make progress.

 

_______

 

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

 

COMMENCEMENT OF WORKS ON THE KAVALAMANJA ROAD

 

338. Mr E. Tembo (Feira) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

 

1. whether the Government is aware that the Kavalamanja Road, in Luangwa District, which connects Kavalamanja Ward to the Luangwa Boma, is now a death trap, due to its deplorable condition; and

 

1. if so, why commencement of works on this road, which was funded by the World Bank, under the Improved Rural Connectivity Project, has delayed.

 

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, the Government is aware of the poor state of the Kavalamanja Road in Luangwa District of Lusaka Province.

 

Madam Speaker, the works on the Kavalamanja Road have delayed due to poor performance of the contractor, which caused the contract to be terminated.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

 

Mr E. Tembo: Madam Speaker, the question relates to the fact that the road was funded by the World Bank under the Improved Rural Connectivity Project (IRCP). I think, the issue is not that the contractor failed to perform, but that the contract was terminated as part of the local Government’s global wholesome approach to terminating contracts, purportedly because of suspected corruption.

 

Madam Speaker, it has been four years, and one of the latest incidents is that almost twenty people died on that road. Of course, we have to rule out the use of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) because the nature of the road is quite expensive to construct. So, what is happening with the current plans? We need to have that road worked on as it is used for both economic and social needs. It is also used to transport people who are sick to the main hospital at the Boma.

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, first of all, let me state that where corruption is suspected, we have adequate law enforcement agencies where this must be reported.

 

Madam Speaker, I will now go into more detail about the contract that was offered for this particular road. The Government, through the Road Development Agency (RDA), awarded the contract for the design, rehabilitation, improvement and maintenance of roads in Chongwe, Rufunsa, and Luangwa districts of Lusaka Province, which included the Kavalamanja Road. The contractor was Messrs Visha Suppliers Limited as of 5^th October, 2023.

 

Madam Speaker, the contract was valued at K163,558,746.22, with a duration of sixty months. The scope of works included design, rehabilitation, improvement to gravel standard and maintenance of approximately 284 km of selected roads. The contract covered selected roads in Chongwe District, Rufunsa District and Luangwa District. The Kavalamanja Road, which connects Kavalamanja Ward to Luangwa Boma in Luangwa District, was part of the contract. The contractor initially mobilised and commenced works on roads in Chongwe District before moving to Rufunsa District and Luangwa District.

 

Madam Speaker, the contract was terminated on 16^th May, 2025, due to non-performance by the contractor. The procurement process to appoint a new contractor has commenced and is currently awaiting clearance of the draft contract by the Ministry of Justice. Works will resume once the contract is awarded and the contractor has mobilised on site. Works are expected to commence in the third quarter of 2025.

 

Madam Speaker, to ensure that the works are quickly done, one thing we have done is to break down the project into segments, instead of awarding the whole 284 km stretch to one contractor. We have broken it down and given it to various contractors. We hope that will make it possible to complete the project as quickly as possible.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

 Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the responses.

 

Madam Speaker, it is good that the hon. Minister has indicated that there is progress on working on that particular road. Otherwise, I was going ask him whether the Government was considering, maybe, using the Road Development Agency (RDA) to undertake emergency works. Since the works are progressing, that is fine.

 

Madam Speaker: Is that a comment?

 

Mr Mtayachalo indicated assent.

 

Mr E. Tembo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the answer.

 

Madam Speaker, I think that the problem is that the contractor was given a contract to work on roads in three districts, of which the road in question and four others were part and parcel. I want to focus on the Kavalamanja Road because it is in a deplorable state. As we are waiting for the procedures of the contracts being signed and cleared by the Attorney-General, are there any immediate measures that can be put in place so that the road can be usable?  Right now, it is a death trap as vehicles are not moving properly.

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I understand that concern by the hon. Member for Feira. Indeed, the road is in a horrible state, as I have admitted. I have stated that works are going to start in the third quarter of this year. The second quarter is finishing in less than two weeks time. So, we expect that the selected contractor will be on site to start the works soon. We hope to see better works. We will try to push our systems through the Ministry of Justice and the Attorney-General so that we get the approvals as quickly as possible.

 

Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government is concerned about that road because it connects Rufunsa, Feira and Chongwe in Lusaka Province. When the New Dawn Government came into office in 2021, it recognised that Lusaka Province, Copperbelt Province, the North-Western Province and the Western Province were left out regarding previous road works. Therefore, we took immediate measures to improve rural connectivity with money from the World Bank. We approached the World Bank and asked if the remaining money, which was about US$60 million, could be allocated to road works in provinces that were left out by the previous Government. So, that is how that programme, which includes the roads we are talking about, came about.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member can be assured that the works will be done to the right quality and the roads will be maintained periodically. Each of those roads is supposed to be constructed within two years and have a three-year maintenance period to ensure that we achieve the highest standard possible. In places such as Luapula Province, where recent road works were done, I have been on those roads and they are, indeed, remarkable.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

SUSPENSION OF SILICOSIS EXAMINATIONS AND SCREENING BY THE OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY INSTITUTE OF ZAMBIA

 

339. Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East) asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

 

1. whether the Government is aware of the recent suspension of silicosis examinations and screening by the Occupational Health and Safety Institute of Zambia for Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) employees;

 

1. if so, why the services have been suspended;

 

1. what measures the Government is taking to ensure that KCM takes action to  avert the risk of the loss of lives of miners to silicosis, a lung disease caused by prolonged exposure to silica dust in mining environments; and

 

1. whether there are measures in place to prevent a reduction in mineral production that may ensue due to possible ill health of miners.

 

Mr Nkandu interjected.

 

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Kabuswe): Madam Speaker, I need protection from the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts.

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: Maybe, we should give you some sand so that you can go and try it out outside. You are sizing up another.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, we will do just that.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, the Government is aware of the recent suspension of silicosis medical examinations and screening services for Konkola Copper Mine (KCM) employees by the Occupational Health and Safety Institute of Zambia. The suspension was effected on 22^nd May, 2025, but the provision of those services resumed on 11^th June, 2025.

 

Madam Speaker, the suspension was due to a payment-related misunderstanding concerning outstanding examination fees amounting to approximately K1.8 million, which had accrued during the period KCM was under provisional liquidation. The payment of those arrears falls under a court-sanctioned scheme of arrangement, which outlines the order and conditions for settling historical debts, including those owed to Government agencies such as the Occupational Health and Safety Institute of Zambia.

 

Madam Speaker, upon explanation and clarification by KCM, and further engagements with the institute, the matter was amicably resolved and the Occupational Health and Safety Institute of Zambia resumed provision of services on 11^th June, 2025.

 

Madam Speaker, all employees eligible by law to undergo silicosis medical examinations have been availed this service by OHS through KCM management without delay.

 

Madam Speaker, yes, the Government has taken steps to ensure that mining operations remain compliant with health and safety requirements to prevent any disruption in production. It should be noted that all underground employees have undergone and will continue to undergo mandatory silicosis examinations in accordance with legal provisions.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, indeed, I am glad that the hon. Minister has articulated the answer quite well, including the measures that the Government has taken to alleviate the issue in the futureas you may know, silicosis examination and screening is quite cardinal for the health of our miners and would-be miners. Other than the Occupational Health & Safety Institute of Zambia (OHSIZ), is there any other public health institution where miners can seek silicosis examination and screening?

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Solwezi East for that question.

 

Madam Speaker, of course, the standard is that miners undergo silicosis examination at a particular time. It is a mining safety requirement. In fact, records are made so that any miner who is due for silicosis examination is examined. There is no debate or argument about this. When the time comes, the miners due for silicosis examination have to be checked. However, if a miner feels a certain way even befall he is due for examination, he is free to go to any Government hospital or even a mine hospital for examination. That is why each mine has a hospital where employees are checked. Miners are free to go and have themselves checked if they feel a certain way, but it is mandatory for mining companies to have records for their employees on when they are due for silicosis examination. When they are due for silicosis examination, there is no compromise; it is mandatory. They have to be taken for silicosis examination, and they cannot enter the plant area if they are not examined.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much. So, we make progress.

 

OPERATIONALISATION OF HEALTH POSTS IN KASAMA CENTRAL PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

 

340. Ms S. Mwamba (Kasama Central) asked the Minister of Health:

 

1. when the following health posts, whose construction was funded by the Constituency Development Fund in Kasama Central Parliamentary Constituency, will be operationalised:

 

1. Nyola;

1. Kalense;
2. Mponge; 
3. Mumana Lupando; and
4. Mubanga Lupiya; and

 

1. what the cause of the delay in operationalising the health posts is.

 

The Minister of Health (Mr Muchima): Madam Speaker, allow me to once again, mention to the House, that the Government, working through the Health Professions Council of Zambia (HPCZ), which is the regulatory body of health facilities and practitioners other than nurses and midwives, for a health facility to be operationalised, it must satisfy, at least, the following criteria as per the National Health Care Standards:

 

1. running water and flushable toilets;

 

1. energy source, that is, grid or solar;

 

1. provision of a staff house;

 

1. medical and non-medical equipment;

 

1. human resource for health;

 

1. incinerator for medical waste management, that is, brick or electric; and

 

1. registration and licence from the HPCZ as stipulated under Part 6, Section 38 of the Health Professions Council of Zambia Act No. 17 of 2024, which prohibits a health facility from operating without a licence.

 

Madam Speaker, the five health facilities, namely Nyola, Mponge, Mubanga Lupiya, Mumana Lupando and Kalense health posts have been reclassified as health centres and will be operationalised as soon as the complements of the facilities are put in place.

 

Madam Speaker, construction at the three sites, namely Nyola, Mponge and Mubanga Lupiya health centres, is at the same level. On one hand, the current status is that the Out-Patient Department (OPD) structure and water reticulation system have been completed, but there are no critical auxiliary structures like the incinerator and ablution. Further, the facilities require medical and non-medical equipment. On the other hand, Mumana Lupando and Kalense health centres are partially operational. However, the facilities will be fully operationalised once medical equipment is put in place.

 

Madam Speaker, operationalisation of the named health posts has been delayed because the requisites are still being put in place, in line with the National Health Care Standards, The requirements have been shared with the Constituency Development Fund Committee (CDFC) through the office of the Town Clerk. My ministry, through the provincial and district health offices, is engaged actively with Kasama Municipal Council (KMC) and the office of the area hon. Member of Parliament to ensure that the requisites are put in place, especially for the health posts where works have advanced.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, clearly, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) has enabled us hon. Members from rural areas to take primary healthcare closer to the people. I think, the need to operationalise those health posts is critical. My appeal would be that the ministry prioritises operationalisation of the health posts.

 

Madam Speaker, with your indulgence, and that of the hon. Minister, Kasama is not far from Kanchibiya. We have constructed similar facilities and a number of them are operational.  Kanchibiya is a district and a constituency, so we have been lobbying and engaging the Ministry of Health to construct a district hospital. Would the ministry consider our urgent need? We do what we are able to do with the CDF; we are not able to construct a district hospital with it.

 

Mr Muchima: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the supplementary question.

 

Madam Speaker, we appreciate what the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is doing in terms of construction of health centres, but, of course, it cannot construct a district hospital in a place such as Kanchibiya. Let me disclose to the hon. Member that Kanchibiya is on the list of districts to have a district hospital constructed.

 

Madam Speaker, for health centres, we need to follow what the Act says for a licence to be issued to the centres. I must also congratulate the hon. Member for Kasama because the people there are working as a team. I have a list of medical equipment and furniture needed for one of the health centres totalling about K900,000. That is K1 million, which can come from the CDF. Where the constituency is stuck, we can come in and help with equipment. The problem is that we are mixing equipment and infrastructure. For equipment, we can help the constituency where it is stuck. The CDF is quite sufficient for those items if they are a priority.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

Ms S. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, when business was suspended, I was about to ask the hon. Minister a follow-up question. I also thank him for his elaborate answer.

 

Madam Speaker, we have gone as far as we can with the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) budget, and we have exhausted our resource envelope. Hence, reaching out to the Ministry of Health. I want to know how the ministry can collaborate with the local authority in terms of licencing, staffing, human resources and other areas we might lack. How can the ministry collaborate with the local authority so that we ensure that we operationalise the health posts? I am asking this question because they now look like decorations in the constituency.

 

Mr Muchima: Madam, Speaker, first and foremost, when we are planning for health facilities, we should plan them as a whole; complete with equipment, like the way the people of Kasama have done it. There is a list of equipment for which our ministry, the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, and the constituency are collaborating. I have the list. When a constituency puts the infrastructure in place and that infrastructure meets the standards, and basic equipment has also been installed in totality, then, the ministry can be invited. Firstly, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) Committee hands over the infrastructure to the council, and then the council hands it over to the ministry after a licence has been obtained. Then, the ministry can be invited to operate it. The problem is that people are just ending up with buildings and asking the ministry to operate them.

 

Madam Speaker, this Government has limited resources at the moment. We have big hospitals to build, and recruitment to undertake for nurses and doctors. There are many commitments within one envelope. Luckily, the Government working with the President increase the CDF allocation every year. Therefore, it is up to the hon. Member, it is not limited, to sit with the people and  prioritise what they want to be done. If the hospital and equipment are the first priority, they should do so. However, constituencies should also consult the ministry on how far they can go. They should not just build something and then depend on the ministry, which has too many requirements, to have it operationalised. All the constituencies are building. Health is life and, at the same time, political. It can make an hon. Member win or lose elections. So, they should move quickly and put everything in place and then call the ministry to operationalise the centre.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, the people of Mbabala, just like the people of Kasama, have made tremendous progress in constructing health facilities, in line with the President’s call for maternity wings and health facilities. So, we have Kaseko, Munanjeu and many other health centres, plus Halumba, which is ready. Now, in his response, the hon. Minister mentioned standards that must be met, and one of them was the provision of flushable toilets. The previous designs, which were given by the Ministry of Health, did not have flushable toilet provisions until the New Dawn Government ordered the formulation of new ones.

 

Madam Speaker, the House may realise that some of the health facilities have been under construction for the past twenty years plus because the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) was inadequate during previous regimes. For example, Namiyanda in my constituency, was started over twenty years ago, Kachenje and others as well have been under construction for many years, and were based on the old designs, which did not have flushable toilet provisions. Now, in the ministry’s standards, the hon. Minister has indicated the provisions of flushable toilets, which we may not have, but we have all the toilets which were based on the old designs. What is the hon. Minister’s response to that situation given that those facilities are completed, and just waiting for indexing and commissioning?

 

Mr Muchima: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Mbabala for the question.

 

Madam Speaker, allow me to talk about Mbabala. Yes, we are aware that some buildings were below the required standards. However, there is no harm in the hon. Member, together with the engineers from the councils, modifying the building because having flushable toilets is a Presidential directive. For public health’s sake, we need flushable toilets to avoid flies, which spread diseases. As such, I urge the hon. Member to redesign the building. Yes, the time the hon. Member talked about, the CDF was K1.6 million. We have had the enhanced CDF for the past three years. For three years, the CDF is constantly given out and is K36.1 million. The hon. Member can easily modify the building to include flushable toilets and a shower or can annex them to the building. He has enough money.

 

Madam Speaker, I also have a list of the basic requirements needed to operationalise the health centres in Kasama. That is why I was wondering why – The hon. Member for Kasama Central together with the people at the ministry produced a list of the basic things that are required. I have it here and I will lay it on the Table so that everyone can have it. When I looked at the list, the total amount of the things required is K899,751.60, close to K900,000 or K1 million. Surely, out of K36.1 million, my Lozi brothers say sate six, why not spare K1 million to pay for the items on the list? It is the same Government; money comes from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning.

 

Madam Speaker, I wish hon. Members knew how much we struggle. How many are we? There are 156 constituencies. If hon. Members wait for us, the projects might take long, but if they come up with initiatives, like what the hon. Member for Kasama Central has done, it is quicker. Maybe, she might miss one or two things, then we can come in to help and operationalise the hospital, rather than depending on us totally for equipment. It will not be very easy because there are many constituencies. My friend Hon. Jack Mwiimbu, SC., the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security is waiting.

 

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Muchima: My friend from the Copperbelt and even those from Kitwe and everywhere else are all waiting for the same resource envelope. So, take initiative and be in the lead. We shall come and operationalise the facility very quickly. It is our desire and that of the President that we facilitate health care everywhere and take medicine to the last mile. We congratulate the hon. Members of Parliament for what they are doing. Let us work together and support the desires of this Government.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the elaborate answers he has provided to the people of Kasama.

 

Madam Speaker, while we appreciate that there are many innovations that we can apply from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to leverage the equipping of the clinics that are being built across the country, you will agree with me that the number of clinics that are being added to the database for existing clinics is increasing daily. Indeed, there is an outbreak of development everywhere. Every week, a clinic is being built.

 

Madam Speaker, for planning purposes, do the Provincial Health Directors in Kasama or the Southern Province know how many clinics we will have by December? From the little that the hon. Minister gets from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, planning can be done more systematically because clinics are increasing daily. We are doing what we can using the CDF, but we need the kind of co-ordination where there is a projection of how many clinics will be built and how many staff members we will have by the end of December so that there can be a well-thought-out plan on how to address this outbreak of development.

 

Mr Muchima: Madam Speaker, I thank my son, the hon. Member for Itezhi-Tezhi.

 

Madam Speaker, last month, a directive was given to all Provincial Health Directors to take stock. The onus is on the hon. Members to collaborate with the officers at the Ministry of Health so that we know what is going on. They are the people who sit on the CDF Committees, where money is allocated. We need to know the numbers and be able to inspect the infrastructure, because some of them are built without following the laid-down standards.

 

Madam Speaker, I totally agree with the hon. Member that we need projections. For sure, for staffing and budgetary allocation, we need to know what is where. Yesterday, I said that we also need to look at the establishment. The population has increased and the number of facilities is increasing. We need to ask the Cabinet to re-look our establishment so that we can accommodate this new infrastructure and the personnel that we are recruiting. My son is very right.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mubika: Do you have a son here?

 

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, in 1998, Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM) Limited exited the mining sector, the new mine owners abandoned Ronald Ross Hospital, and the Intensive Care Unit (ICU) was closed. Through the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), like the hon. Minister has advised, the three hon. Members of Parliament in Mufulira raised K3,750,000 to revamp the ICU at the hospital. Today, the ICU is in operation after thirty years of being non-operational. I believe there are two constituencies in Kasama. So, if each constituency contributed K500,000, the amount needed can easily be raised.  What could be the challenge for the two constituencies in Kasama to fail to raise K900,000 to support this critical sector, the health sector?

 

Mr Muchima: Madam Speaker, I like the analysis and initiative from the hon. Member for Kankoyo. That is what has been done in Kasama. I do not know why the hon. Member was not told. The two constituencies came together. The constituents and the officers at the ministry are the ones who worked on the list, which they gave me. They have not asked for the money, but they are just waiting to see what they can do so that they can meet the basic requirements for the clinic. That is the way to go, especially for places like Lusaka. There are seven constituencies in Lusaka and these can come together and contribute. We can supply water to the University Teaching Hospitals (UTH). We can resolve some of the problems if we come together. When ambulances come, seven of them will be for Lusaka. So, regarding all these things, let us come together and put money together to help the Government. After all, it is the same Government. We are heading towards elections, and such projects will help hon. Members achieve what they want to attract people. They must know that hon. Members are working. They should not sit on that CDF. They should use it especially in the health sector because it is key. I like the suggestion and innovation from the hon. Member.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Ms S. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, the districts in Kasama Central and Lukashya constituencies are completely different. Mufulira is more urban. Kasama District is peri-urban. Most areas in Kasama District are rural and the distances are so far apart. So, we are trying our level best. I am sure, the hon. Minister could see that when we had the CDF meeting this time around, that particular amount was what was suggested by the Committee. So, it is not that we do not want to collaborate as a district, but our dynamics are just different. Our areas are at loggerheads. They are so far apart. Our distances are vast.

 

Mr Muchima: Madam Speaker, firstly, the hon. Member is already doing what was suggested. Secondly, when we look at the dynamics of Mufulira and Kasama, they are completely different. The population in Mufulira is huge compared to that of Kasama. As I said, the hon. Member for Kasama Central is already doing what was suggested and has shown the way. I contacted the constituents in Kasama and was told they have already come together to meet this list (waved a paper). Where it will not be possible, for example, purchasing very expensive equipment like X-rays, we, as a ministry, can come in and help. We are already doing what the hon. Member for Kankoyo said.

 

Madam Speaker, I just wanted to clarify that point.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

CONSTRUCTION OF MARKET AND BUS STATION IN MULOBEZI

 

341. Eng. Mabenga (Mulobezi) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to construct the following infrastructure in Mulobezi Parliamentary Constituency:

 

1. a market; and
2. a bus station;

 

1. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

 

1. if there are no such plans, why.

 

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Sialubalo): Madam Speaker, the Government does not currently have plans to construct a market and bus station in Mulobezi Parliamentary Constituency.

 

Madam Speaker, as stated in response to part (a) of the question, the Government does not have such plans due to limited resources for the construction of markets and bus stations in the 2025 Budget.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Eng. Mabenga: Madam Speaker, if there are not enough funds in the 2025 Budget, is it possible for the ministry to budget for those projects in 2026?

 

Mr Sialubalo: Madam Speaker, I sincerely thank the hon. Member for the follow-up question.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mulobezi Constituency is part of the budgeting system. Therefore, I urge him to ensure that as we are preparing the 2026 Budget, Mulobezi is considered so that he achieves what is desired.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Eng. Mabenga: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister knows that it is very difficult to have input in the budgeting process for his ministry without him taking the lead. That is why we are requesting for his good office to help us. 

 

Mr Sialubalo: Madam Speaker, my response to the hon. Member is that we should start walking the talk together in preparing the 2026 Budget. That way, the people of Mulobezi will benefit from the 2026 Budget. As we portion resources, he should make sure that, at least, the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development gets a bigger share to address the challenges he has brought before the Floor of the House.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.  

 

MILK PRODUCTION IN THE COUNTRY

 

342. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Fisheries and Livestock:

 

1. what the level of milk production was, countrywide, as of May, 2024;

 

1. which province was the largest milk producer; and 

 

1. what measures have been taken to improve milk production in the country.

 

The Minister of Fisheries and Livestock (Mr Kapala): Madam Speaker, as of May, 2024, the annual milk production countrywide was estimated at 620 million litres processed and 85 million litres consumed as raw milk.

 

Madam Speaker, the largest milk producer in Zambia is Southern Province and, correspondingly, it is the province with the highest population of cattle and the largest number of dairy farmers.

 

Madam Speaker, the following measures are being taken to improve milk production countrywide:

 

1. construction and completion of milk collection centres across the country. In 2025, my ministry plans to complete the construction of eight milk collection centres across the country in high potential zones;

 

1. stocking and restocking of dairy cattle in various places. In 2024 alone, the ministry had successfully procured and distributed ninety dairy cattle, eighty heifers and ten bulls, to various parts of the country. A tender for an additional fifty is currently at evaluation stage and will be concluded before the end of the year;

 

1. provision of sufficient and quality nutrition for the animals. As the hon. Member may have observed, milk volumes across the country tend to exhibit declining as we go into the dry season, mainly on account of fodder availability and quality. To address this challenge, my ministry has been and will continue to promote on-farm pasture production as well as rehabilitation of degraded rangelands. To this end, we have successfully procured 22,500 kg of pasture and rangelands seeds for distribution to small-holder livestock farmers. A further K28 million has been allocated in the 2025 Budget for the same;

 

1. provision of extension services to small-holder dairy farmers. This is being implemented together with other co-operating partners, who are implementing alternative livelihood programmes in different parts of the country;

 

1. operationalisation of the Dairy Industries Development Act, No. 22 of 2010. In 2025, the ministry will bring into operation the Act, which aims at strengthening the dairy sector; and

 

1. promotion of the use of superior genetics through assisted reproductive technologies, such as artificial insemination, with support from the Jersey Overseas Association. We currently have over 22,000 Jersey semen straws in the country, which are being used to improve the small-holder dairy herd in four provinces, namely the Central Province, Copperbelt Province, Lusaka Province and the Southern Province.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, what standard does the ministry use to select the provinces to be provided with the Jersey semen straws? The ministry had 22,000 Jersey semen straws. What criteria did it use to select the provinces it did, leaving out the ones with economic problems, meaning low levels of economic activities. The ministry has focused on provinces that are developed. What about the other provinces? In short, what standard is the ministry using to select the provinces for the project? To me, this is a concern.

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, interestingly, I am sure that the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo Central is aware that the Western Province is prone to a disease called Contagious Bovine Pleuropneumonia (CBPP), which also affects dairy cattle. Even if we had to row out many straws for artificial inseminations, the cattle would be affected by the prevalence of the disease that is in the Western Province.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi): Madam Speaker, the milk industry has the potential to grow the economy of this country, as milk can be exported and earn us foreign exchange. I am very happy that the hon. Minister has indicated that eight milk collection centres will be constructed this year. I want to find out which districts have been targeted. When you look at certain districts, like Itezhi-Tezhi, you will see that it has over 144,000 animals, more than the number of people in the area. However, there is no milk collection centre, and so, over 10,000 litres of milk goes to waste daily. I just want to know, for interest sake, what the names of the eight districts where the milk collection centres will be constructed are. Is Itezhi-Tezhi one of the targeted areas? It has many animals and has a lot of potential?

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, sorry, I do not have the actual schedule of where the eight centres are. However, I am free to engage with the hon. Member of Parliament so that we can look at whether Itezhi-Tezhi is part of the areas where the milk collection centres will be constructed.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, I live and work in the Western Province.

 

Rev. Katuta: Question!

 

Mr Miyutu: You can ‘question,’ it is okay.

 

Laughter

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you may continue.

 

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, I know what it means to question. She does not live in Kalabo Central, so she should not question. She should just listen.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister is talking about Contagious Bovine Pleuropneumonia (CBPP). Yes, CBPP is there. However, is it guaranteed that because there is CBPP, there should not be any advancement driven by the Government to alleviate the disease? The hon. Minister knows the purpose of milk. He knows very well the importance and the value of milk to human life.

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Question!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, would the ministry not attempt, in a small way, to apply artificial insemination to our local animals there, so that we can see the impact of CBPP on milk production?

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, that is interesting. The artificial insemination programme will be enhanced this year due to the fact that a nitrogen plant in Mazabuka will come into operation sometime between September and October. That will enhance the production of nitrogen, which is a critical ingredient in the production and transportation of straws to various points in the country. So, I can assure the hon. Member for Kalabo Central that we will be rolling out the programme because we are going to create more artificial insemination centres. I am sure that we will be able to get into Kalabo Central and see the requirements. You see, as far as the information that the ministry has, milk processing in the Western Province has faced many challenges due to disease. The private sector has tried milk processing there before but failed. However, this is not the end. We have to look to science to overcome the challenge and increase milk production in the Western Province.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for this very exciting news about the nitrogen plant coming up in Mazabuka. That is very important. Definitely, the people of Mang’unza will benefit from that.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister and ourselves launched the provincial programme in Choma for the Jersey milk animals. This is an excellent initiative for our farmers. Could the hon. Minister amplify the practical ways in which our farmers, those who have accessed the Jersey animals, will benefit? Will they now access the programmes that he has mentioned, that is, grass as well as milk collection centres in the areas where we do not have them, so that the farmers can actually get value from the animals that the ministry has introduced?

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I indicated that I do not have the actual schedule of where the milk collection centres will be erected. However, we will look all areas, especially those in the Southern Provinces, because of the huge amounts being produced in that province.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Madam Speaker, in one of his responses, the hon. Minister indicated that the Western Province has a number of challenges, and one of them is animal diseases. Kalabo has identified milk processing as one way of enabling economic development in the district. Is there any programme that the Government is embarking on in the Western Province, Kalabo in particular, to reduce diseases to minimum levels, so that the people of Kalabo can embark on milk processing in the Western Province?

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I should mention here that there is already informal trading of milk products in Kalabo. I am sure that the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo will attest to that. However, as I alluded to earlier on, this Government is actively fighting the diseases to reduce them to the barest minimum. Let me take this opportunity to inform the nation that we hope to start exporting beef this year. So, we need to eradicate all the diseases that affect our cattle industry.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.    

 

Mr Malambo (Magoye): Madam Speaker, Kalabo is a rural area and it predominantly houses a good number of cattle. The people also have many challenges related to beef and milk production due to diseases, as the hon. Minister has indicated. The dairy industry is highly technical. It faces many challenges, including mastitis, which affects milk. How much sensitisation is being put in place in Kalabo to ensure that our people are not affected by diseases that are found in milk?

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, we have extension officers in all the districts. They help small-scale farmers with knowledge on how they can overcome some of the challenges they face.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

ELECTRICAL ENGINEERS SEPARATED FROM ZESCO FROM 2021 TO 2024

 

344. Mr. Mtayachalo (Chama North) asked the Minister of Energy:

 

1. how many electrical engineers at ZESCO Limited separated from the company from 2021 to 2024, year by year;

 

1. what the main causes of the separations were; and

 

1. what measures the Government is taking to retain electrical engineers at the company. 

 

The Minister of Energy (Mr Chikote): Madam Speaker, nineteen electrical engineers were separated from ZESCO Limited in 2021; sixteen in 2022; twenty-one in 2023; and thirteen in 2024. So, sixty-nine electrical engineers separated from ZESCO Limited from 2021 to 2024.

 

Madam Speaker, there were various reasons for the separation, which include mutual separation, death, dismissal due to disciplinary actions, normal retirement, redundancy, resignation and contract expiry. The desire for mutual separation was motivated by employees wanting to access early retirement packages.

 

Madam Speaker, ZESCO Limited continuously works on improving the conditions of services, aligning them with new developments in the engineering field, to remain competitive on the labour market. Some of the measures include, but not limited to:

 

1. sponsoring of engineers for short-term capacity-building courses. Through the ZESCO Limited training centre, engineers receive on-the-job capacity building training;

 

1. training of engineers in system operations. Once they pass, they are issued system authorisation certificates and are paid a one-off system authorisation allowance. That enhances their career value;

 

1.  paying of availability allowance as a percentage of the monthly basic salary. It is paid to employees whose movements are restricted outside normal hours;

 

1. paying of hardship allowance to those who work in qualified remote areas. It is paid as a percentage of the monthly basic salary; and

 

1. incorporation of junior engineers into teams that travel to undertake factory acceptance tests, as a means of training and skill transfer to add to their wealth of knowledge.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, the power utility is in a sad state of affairs. The question on the Floor was asked following numerous complaints from several stakeholders who noted that the power utility experienced the highest turnover of electrical engineers who were retired unfairly from 2021 to 2024. Can the hon. Minister tell the House why the Government allowed ZESCO Limited management to retire the engineers and several workers unfairly? There is a matter in court concerning some senior people who have sued ZESCO Limited because of the same. It is very sad that our engineers are now in the sub-region. If one visits most power utilities in the sub-region, one will see engineers who were trained by this country, but now they are working in the diaspora because of unfair dismissal. Can the hon. Minister confirm that most of them were unfairly retired, and that is why they have sued ZESCO Limited?

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I have alluded to the reasons the electrical engineers separated from the company. I did not say that the Government allowed them to separate from the utility company. The reasons are clear. When somebody is disciplined, what do we expect the Government to do? When somebody looks for greener pastures, what do we expect the Government to do? It is their right. The Government has nothing to do with the staff who left the utility company.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chibombwe (Bahati): Madam Speaker, it is, indeed, sad to note that many engineers are leaving ZESCO Limited. Even today, if one went to ZESCO Limited, one would find a huge pile of letters from engineers requesting to leave the company, and that is very true. Many engineers are trying to leave ZESCO Limited. I do not know why. We are just not losing ordinary engineers, we are losing experienced engineers; people who have worked for years and understand the entire system at the power utility and the electrical system of this country. My question is: Does the hon. Minister think that ZESCO Limited is being properly managed, or is it being mismanaged under their leadership? Since they came into power, many people have resigned.

 

Mr Nkandu: Question!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, as you ask questions, try to be factual. I do not know where hon. Member, you saw the heap of applications. Do you work for ZESCO Limited?

 

Mr Chibombwe: Madam Speaker, about twenty years –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, I was just giving guidance. Let us try to be factual.

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, like I have stated, there are various reasons some of the officers left the utility company. Some were dismissed because of their conduct, and others went to look for greener pastures. The energy sector is expanding. So, we cannot restrict officers who want to leave the utility company to look for greener pastures. The Government is not responsible for the decisions made by the officers. I stated clearly that when this Administration took over, ZESCO Limited started surviving the way it is supposed to survive as a utility company.

 

Madam Speaker, there are a number of measures that we have put in place and things that we are trying to implement at ZESCO Limited. A number of reforms are going on there. You heard how as Minister, I explained how ZESCO Limited is now managing the debt that was left a long time ago by the previous regime. So, this Government is really working hard to make sure that ZESCO Limited becomes a very attractive utility company in this country. Hence, I lined up the measures that ZESCO Limited has taken to ensure that it becomes attractive so that the experienced engineers are retained by the utility company.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mapani (Namwala): Madam Speaker, from the time the United Party for National Development (UPND) took over Government, has there been a new law enacted, stating that when somebody is of age, he/she cannot retire? If not, then what is the problem?

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, may the hon. Member repeat his question.

 

Mr Mapani: Madam Speaker, I want to know whether, from the time the New Dawn Government got into power, a new law was enacted that prevents those who are of age from retiring. I ask this question because if there was a mutual separation, the question would then be: Where is the problem with the question asked?

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, there is no law that this Administration enacted. One of the reasons I stated was mutual separation. The laws that have been used to govern utility companies are the laws that were left by our colleagues.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, you know, we will only be able to resolve some of these issues if we are honest with ourselves. Yes, I know that even in the past, there was brain drain where electrical engineers were being retired unfairly. However, this period has had the highest turnover of engineers being retired without a justified reason.  The hon. Minister said that those engineers retired voluntarily but a number of them sued ZESCO Limited. Currently, ZESCO Limited is in the courts of law. Many engineers have sued the company because they were treated unfairly. I know cases can be in court, but issues can be resolved even outside court. Is the hon. Minister going to take that route, because the current state of affairs is very sad for this nation?

 

Madam Speaker, electrical engineers at the Electricity Supply Corporation of Malawi (ESCOM), are being trained by Zambians. The power companies in Namibia, Botswana and Nigeria, all have Zambian engineers trained at the University of Zambia (UNZA) and the Copperbelt University (CBU). Every time there is a change of Government, we start retiring people without a justified reason. So, are we going to stop this trend? The fact of the matter is that with the current Managing Director (MD), there has been an improvement compared to how it was with the previous MD. So, will the hon. Minister take radical measures to stop this brain drain? We cannot be training engineers, and then other countries are benefiting.

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, we will let the court take its course. The hon. Member has rightly debated fully that the management that is there is doing very well. That is the direction we are taking. So, we will do the right thing to help the utility company stand on its feet.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Chama North said that some engineers have taken ZESCO Limited to court. If their retirement was based on voluntary separation or mutual separation, why would they go to court? I am a firm believer that when there is high labour turnover, the work environment becomes unconducive or, maybe, it is because of a change in management. So, I want to know from the hon. Minister, if the management of ZESCO Limited is still at its tips. From the look of things, it is poor management that is leading to all those resignations.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, let us try to be factual. I did not hear the hon. Minister say that all the retired engineers sued ZESCO Limited. So, please, let us try to be factual according to the answer that was given.

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, like you have rightly said, I said that there were several reasons their contracts were terminated. I did not just say that all the electrical engineers had their contracts terminated. I stated several reasons. So, I do not know whether the hon. Member knows that all the sixty-nine people are in court. I am not aware of such.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

ELECTRIFICATION OF MUNKONGE CHIEFDOM IN KASAMA DISTRICT

 

345. Ms S. Mwamba asked the Minister of Energy:

 

1. when electrification of Munkonge Chiefdom in Kasama District will commence;

 

1. what the estimated cost of the project is; and

 

1. what the estimated timeframe for the completion of the project is.

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, according to the Rural Electrification Master Plan, Munkonge Chiefdom is scheduled for electrification in 2028. The feasibility study, concluded on 2^nd June, 2025, revealed that the appropriate technology that can be used is grid extension to capture the various load centres where the overhead line will pass through. The project scope includes the construction of 19 km of 33 kV overhead lines and 12 km of 400 V overhead lines. The beneficiaries include Chief Munkonje’s Palace, Munkonje Local Court, Munkonje Rural Health Centre –

 

Mr Nkandu: It is Munkonge!

 

Mr Chikote: Munkonge, yes.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Chikote: There is Munkonge Mini Hospital, Munkonge Market and surrounding areas. REA will implement the plan once funds are made available.

 

Madam Speaker, the total cost of implementing the grid extension project is estimated at K17.7 million.

 

Madam Speaker, the timeframe for implementing the project will be ten months after handing over the site to the contractor.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Nkandu: Hear, hear!

 

Ms S. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the answer.

 

Madam Speaker, the people of Munkonge Chiefdom have been applying for electricity for some time now and they have been promised time and again that rural electrification or power off the grid will be done. You can imagine that electricity pylons pass through the chiefdom going to Luwingu, but they are not connected. How does the hon. Minister explain to a layman that people cannot have electricity when it passes through their chiefdom?

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I know that it is very difficult for the hon. Member of Parliament to explain that situation to the people in the area, but she needs to be mindful of the fact that those applications were made during the previous Government’s reign. This Government has decided to include the electrification of that particular chiefdom in the Rural Electrification Master Plan (REMP). Therefore, the hon. Member must inform the people that area that the chiefdom has been included in REMP and the feasibility studies have been concluded. We are looking forward to implementing that project.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Ms S. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has a constituency just like me and 2028 is very far away. There is no way he can assure people of receiving electricity in 2028. Are there any alternative means by which the hon. Minister can address that situation in the meantime? For instance, the ministry has installed generators at markets and other public places in Lusaka. Can such an arrangement not be provided to just calm the situation in Munkonge Chiefdom as the Government waits to implement that project in 2028? There is need for a short-term alternative.

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I understand the concerns of the hon. Member. However, I have just stated that there is a plan to electrify the entire country and the chiefdom in question falls under those that will be connected in 2028. This Government is committed to making sure that it delivers services to our people in good time. In the event that resources are made available  in the Budget for 2026 or 2027, we will surely respond to the plight of people of Munkonge or Munkonke –

 

Mr Nkandu: Munkonge!

 

Mr Chikote: Yes, Munkonge Chiefdom.

 

Madam Speaker, there are a number of private players who are interested in investing in the energy. We hope that they can come on board before 2028. I have confidence that the Government is doing its best to make sure that we achieve universal access to electricity by 2030.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me a chance to ask the hon. Minister of Energy a question on behalf of the people of Lundazi.

 

Madam Speaker, before Hon. Chikote became hon. Minister of Energy, there was Hon. Kapala, when the ministry got K1 million from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) of every constituency.  I am talking about that man seated there (pointed at Mr Kapala). He promised that he was going to connect power to villages like those in Kazinda and many others. In her question, the hon. Member for Kasama Central, Ms Sibongile Mwamba, is just asking about connecting one place; Munkonge Chiefdom. Is the hon. Minister in order to keep the K156 million we donated through the CDF and fail to provide power …

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

 

Ms Nyirenda: … even to villages in Mwase, Gowe or Munkonge? Did he misuse that money or what? Can he tell us what he has done with the money? People in Munkonge, just like those in Mukanile Village in Lundazi, need power.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Lundazi!

 

I am confused. I thought it was a question, but it turned into a point of order, and then back to a question.

 

Laughter

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Let us try to be specific.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the question.

 

Madam Speaker, the K1 million from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) allocated to the electrification programme was not meant for capital-intensive projects. That money is meant for technical support to projects. Even though the hon. Member is describing that money as K156 million, it does not mean it can be used across constituencies. Whatever was contributed by each constituency is meant for technical support. As I have said, many areas that need electricity have been included in REMP.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chewe (Lubansenshi): Madam Speaker, I have followed the hon. Minister’s answers thus far.

 

Madam Speaker, I am sure the Ministry of Energy has an annual work plan. I would like to know the annual work plan in which the electrification programme is scheduled to start and the one in which it will end. We know that each year there is a Budget that is approved by this House. If the hon. Minister says that the electrification of Munkonge will be done in 2028, how sure is he that the project will be part of the 2028 Budget for it to come to fruition?

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I have stated that according to REMP, the project will be done in the 2028 fiscal year. The master plan includes all the projects that we need to do. Even in 2026 and 2027, some projects are going to be implemented. So, according to REMP, that chiefdom will be connected in 2028.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the responses.

 

Madam Speaker, electricity is critical to our economic development. I know that the people of Munkonge Chiefdom needed electricity like yesterday. I hope that the hon. Minister is aware that the Rural Electrification Master Plan (REMP) has not been designed to ensure fairness. When you look at the plan, you find that certain areas have had a lion’s share while other areas have not even had one project since the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) was established in 2003. So, is the hon. Minister not going to consider reviewing the master plan so that the people of Munkonge Chiefdom can have electricity much earlier than 2028?

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, every year, the masterplan is reviewed. We do not just stick to what was planned; we keep reviewing the masterplan each fiscal year. So, if there will be any changes that will facilitate the utility company to bring the project for the chiefdom closer, maybe to 2026 or 2027, the hon. Member will be informed. So, each fiscal year, the masterplan is reviewed, depending on the resources that are availed to the ministry.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mutinta: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that in the masterplan, there are chiefdoms where poles were planted in 2016, but to date, those poles are still standing but power has not been connected to the chiefdom? Is the hon. Minister aware of that?

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question.

 

Madam Speaker, I am aware. Those are some of the projects that we found. As the hon. Member has heard, there are a number of projects dating as far back as2016 which were not completed. I do not know how the former Administration was working. This time around, we have to actualise the projects that we have promised the people of Zambia. Going forward, all those projects that the previous Administration failed to implement will be implemented by this Administration. The former Administration was trying to please the audience, but failed to implement the projects. This Administration will make sure that projects are well-planned and well-implemented to deliver services to our people.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The last question is from the hon. Member for Nyimba.

 

Mr Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, I was following the hon. Minister’s answer. He said that Munkonge area will be connected to the national grid in 2028 because the ministry is following the masterplan. I just want to remind the hon. Minister that St Joseph’s Hospital in Chamilala was in the masterplan for 2024. The hon. Minister’s predecessor assured the nation that the projects in the masterplan for 2023 would be implemented. Now, if the ministry has failed to connect St Joseph’s Hospital to electricity in Chamilala Ward in Nyimba in 2023 and 2024, how sure is the hon. Minister that the project in Munkonge in Kasama Central will be implemented?

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question.

 

Madam Speaker, I am very sure that we are going to implement that project in 2028. The reason is that there are a number of measures that we have put in place. Yes, there may be certain grey areas in the masterplan, but this is the more reason we are saying that we are committed to actualising universal access to electricity by 2030. So, we have to make sure that within the period stipulated in the masterplan, the project is implemented. This Administration is committed to making sure that the people of this nation have access to electricity.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

_______

 

BILL

 

THE CLOSED-CIRCUIT TELEVISION PUBLIC PROTECTION BILL, 2025

 

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu, SC.): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

 

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Madam Speaker, it is a privilege for me to present the memorandum on the Closed-Circuit Television Public Protection Bill, No.1 of 2025.

 

Madam Speaker, the process of drafting the Bill began five years ago, during which we have collaborated extensively with a wide range of stakeholders to ensure that the legislation aligns with the needs and expectations of the Zambian people. We engaged civil society organisations, including religious bodies, political groups, non-governmental organisations (NGOs) as well as the Government departments, banks and private security firms throughout the development process.

 

Madam Speaker, the Bill arises from the growing need to utilise surveillance technology to improve public safety, prevent crime and strengthen law enforcement, nationwide.

 

Madam Speaker, globally, Closed-Circuit Television (CCTV) systems have been proven effective in deterring criminal acts, overseeing public areas and supplying vital evidence to law enforcement agencies. Zambia’s increasing urbanisation, economic progress and evolving security landscape call for stronger measures to ensure citizen safety, reduce crime and support effective policing. Compounding this need is the current absence of a legal framework to guide the installation, use and management of CCTV systems. This gap has raised concerns about privacy, data protection and the potential for misuse of surveillance technologies.

 

Madam Speaker, to address these issues, the Government has introduced this Bill to regulate how CCTV systems are deployed and managed in both public and private spaces. It is designed to strike a balance between enhancing security and protecting individual rights, ensuring all practices adhere to legal and ethical standards.

 

Madam Speaker, the Bill aims to define the responsibilities of the National Public Security Command Centre, establish the National Public Security Command Committee and outline its functions, regulate both fixed and mobile CCTV systems, ensure their effective use, safeguard data collected through surveillance and enhance public security through strategic surveillance measures.

 

Madam Speaker, the motivation behind the Bill includes the following key considerations:

 

Public Safety and Crime Prevention

 

 Madam Speaker, CCTV cameras placed in critical locations deter crimes such as thefts, vandalism, and violence. They also provide law enforcement with tools to investigate incidents and to respond more rapidly.

 

Surveillance Regulation

 

Madam Speaker, currently, the unregulated use of CCTV systems opens the door to unauthorised monitoring and privacy violations. The Bill will establish clear rules to ensure surveillance is conducted responsibly and in line with human rights.

Privacy and Data Protection

 

Madam Speaker, the framework will address concerns about unauthorised access and use of surveillance footage by introducing strong data protection measures and regulating data storage and access.

 

 Support for Law Enforcement and Justice

 

Madam Speaker, CCTV footage can serve as key evidence in court proceedings. The Bill will outline how such evidence should be handled to ensure its credibility and proper legal use.

 

Investment and Smart City Development

 

Madam Speaker, the Bill supports the integration of surveillance technologies into urban planning, encouraging private sector investment while ensuring legal compliance.

 

Alignment with International Standards

 

 Madam Speaker, many countries already regulate surveillance to balance security and privacy. This Bill aligns Zambia with global best practices and reinforces our commitment to responsible governance.

 

Madam Speaker, in summary, the Closed-Circuit Television Public Protection Bill establishes a comprehensive legal framework to guide the use of surveillance systems in Zambia. It includes provisions for licencing CCTV operators, protecting data and privacy, and defining the responsibilities of all involved parties; the Government, businesses and individuals. Zambia will boost national security, enhance efforts to prevent crime and protect citizens' rights with the implementation of this Bill. It lays the groundwork for responsible use of surveillance, thereby, building public trust and assisting law enforcement in maintaining order.

 

In closing, Madam Speaker, I would like to extend my sincere appreciation to the chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Affairs, and all the members, including everyone who contributed to this initiative. The submissions from the Committee and all the stakeholders have been taken into account and will be used to improve the Draft Bill. We will successfully regulate the use of CCTV technology to improve the safety and security of our country with collective commitment. I am therefore, urging hon. Members of this august House to support the Bill.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Brig-Gen. Sitwala (Kaoma Central): Madam Speaker, in accordance with its terms of reference set out in the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024, your Committee on National Security and Foreign Affairs considered the Closed-Circuit Television Public Protection Bill, No. 1 of 2025, referred to it on Thursday, 20^th March, 2025.

 

Madam Speaker, it is my belief that hon. Members have read the report of your Committee. I will, therefore, only highlight a few concerns that your Committee encountered while considering the Bill.

 

Madam Speaker, the Bill is consequential. The aim is to introduce a comprehensive legal framework to govern the installation, operation and management of closed-circuit television (CCTV) surveillance systems in Zambia. The Bill outlines key provisions regarding the licencing and regulation of CCTV and mobile CCTV operators, data protection and privacy, and the responsibilities of Government agencies, private entities and individuals in the use of CCTV and mobile CCTV.

 

Madam Speaker, your Committee supports the enactment of the Bill, as it is in line with the constitutional provisions that protect individual rights and privacy, as well as regional and international instruments, such as the African Union (AU) Convention on Cyber Security and Personal Data Protection, that is, the 2014 Malabo Convention and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

 

Madam Speaker, as this august House may be well aware, Zambia lacks a cohesive legal framework to govern the installation, use and management of CCTV and mobile CCTV systems. That has raised concerns regarding the misuse of surveillance technology, privacy and data protection for individuals. Your Committee observes that economic growth and urbanisation world over have led to increased security challenges. Therefore, the use of CCTV technology is crucial and has grown significantly. Both public and private institutions are increasingly adopting surveillance systems to detect and deter crime, protect lives and property, and monitor sensitive and vital installations.

 

Madam Speaker, your Committee notes that the Bill, once enacted, will not operate retrospectively. This, notwithstanding, your Committee recommends that the contentious provisions of the Bill be amended to put in place measures and interventions to uphold privacy rights, data protection, and fundamental rights and freedoms, as enshrined in the Constitution of Zambia.

 

Madam Speaker, your Committee is aware that several countries have enacted legislation regulating CCTV surveillance to uphold security and privacy rights. This Bill aligns with international best practice, ensuring that the country meets global standards in surveillance regulations. The legal framework will establish clear guidelines for responsible use, ensuring that surveillance practices comply with human rights standards. Installation of CCTV cameras in strategic and vital public, private and Government premises deters criminal activities, such as vandalism, theft, murder and other offences. CCTV footage can be utilised by law enforcement officers and agencies to investigate crime, identify criminal suspects and expedite response duration when a need arises, and provide credible evidence before courts during trial.

 

In conclusion, Madam Speaker, your Committee wishes to express its gratitude to you and the Clerk of the National Assembly of Zambia for the support services rendered throughout its deliberations. Gratitude also goes to all the stakeholders who supported the Bill, and gave both oral and written submissions. That greatly assisted the work of your Committee.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this important opportunity, on behalf of the people of Chienge, to add my voice to the debate on the Bill that has been presented by the hon. Minister.

 

Madam Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister say that the Bill will respect privacy and that human rights will not be violated. I just want to read something quickly. Let us look at the right to privacy in Articles 17, 20 and 21 in the Constitution, which contain the areas I want to speak on. Allow me to read my notes. I hope I am allowed to debate like that.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What are you reading from, hon. Member?

 

Rev. Katuta: I did some research, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chienge, we have a report before us, and all hon. Members are invited to comment on whether they agree or do not agree. We have a report that we are supposed to debate on. We are supposed to pick issues from the report and debate them. So, I do not know whether you are ready to debate on the Motion on the report.

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, I am ready to debate.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Please, go ahead.

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, this is about – I will call it ­ a violation of our Human Rights. When one reads the contents of the Bill that has been presented to this House, one notes that it gives more power to the Executive. It will also give more power to officers who can go to one’s house to search one anyhow. This is what I want to speak about. I want to speak in line with the Constitution. Article 21 of the Constitution of Zambia talks about freedom of assembly, but even those who will be gathering in public places will be subjected to surveillance. That is why I first wanted to read what the Constitution says about our rights. Privacy and our human rights as Zambians will be tampered with. Freedom of assembly for the Zambians will also be at risk. This Bill is giving more power to the Executive and the men and women in uniform. So, to bridge the gap, I wanted to read both the Constitution and the report to see what the problem is.

 

Madam Speaker, this Bill is not very good. It will threaten the privacy and the rights of the Zambians. It has to be amended before we pass it. This is what I wanted to say. I thought that if I marry the report with what our Constitution says, then I would be allowed to debate. Since I have not been allowed, I want to say –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Please, go ahead. Marry the two, but the report is important. You may bring in issues about the Constitution, but keep in mind the issues raised in the report. Please, proceed.

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, I want to talk about the right to privacy in Article 17 of the Constitution of Zambia, with the proposed Closed-Circuit Television Public Protection Bill. The proposed Bill will give more powers to the National Public Security Command Centre to install Closed-Circuit Television (CCTV) on public premises and roads with few clear limits. Of course, that will authorise officers to enter any private premises to search and seize the CCTV footage and arrest without a warrant, according to Sections 29 to 30. However, it also says privacy must be respected. As I said, in practice, the proposed law is giving officers wide discretion powers that can override privacy rights without court oversight.

 

Madam Speaker, the freedom of assembly and association, according to Article 21 of the Constitution, will be threatened. Mass CCTV coverage can have a chilling effect on public gatherings, protests and union meetings because people fear being constantly watched and identified. That will discourage freedom of assembly and peaceful protests.

Madam Speaker, freedom of expression, according to Article 20 of the Constitution, – The CCTV may be used to monitor who attends political rallies, church gatherings, or media briefings. This also discourages whistle-blowing.

 

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, the Bill respects privacy and human rights. However, its structure puts too much unchecked power in the hands of the Executive branch without strong independent oversight or clear limits. This undermines constitutional protection.

 

Madam Speaker, this is what I wanted to say in reaction to what the hon. Minister read  and what the Committee stated in the  report. I hope I have made myself clear.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security is proposing that we enact a law, which he is calling the Closed-Circuit Television Public Protection Bill.

 

Madam Speaker, as I make my submission, I want us to be on the same footing. Firstly, we need to understand why we enact laws. We enact laws for many reasons, namely to promote justice and fairness, protect individuals' rights and freedoms, establish social order and stability, and many others. I want to emphasise the second point, which is to protect individual rights and freedoms.

 

Madam Speaker, the Closed-Circuit Television (CCTV) is installed for crime prevention and deterrence, public safety and security, protection of people's property and assets, and aid in investigations and evidence collection. It will interest you to note that Zambia has ratified many human rights instruments and we have since domesticated most of them. Among the domesticated instruments on human rights is the Declaration on Universal Human Rights. It will also interest you to note that Article 12 of the Universal Declaration on Human Rights states the following:

 

“No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home, or correspondence …”

 

Madam Speaker, this Bill proposes, in Clause 13, that a person shall not operate or use a CCTV on private or public premises without a licence from the centre. This centre is what is referred to as the National Public Security Command Centre, which this Bill seeks to establish. The centre will be issuing licenses to anyone who wants to install a CCTV system. Installing a CCTV in public places is one thing, but having it in our private residences is another. In a situation whereby, the police or law enforcement agencies do not have the capacity to guarantee our safety, we have a personal duty to ensure that we do what is important to guarantee our security as citizens. That is why a CCTV is installed, and even when you are not home, you are able to monitor what is happening on your premises.

 

Madam Speaker, CCTV cameras have not started today. They have been there for some time and have aided in preventing crime. Today, the police can go to a premise where a crime has been committed and rely on CCTV to aid in their investigations. What the hon. Minister is now proposing is that anyone who wants security guaranteed or intends to install a security system must go to the centre to apply for a license to install CCTV. Guess what, first of all, the Executive Director will look at the application within ten days then take it to a committee, which will consider it in fifty days. It, therefore, means that it will take two months for the applicant to get a license to set up a security system.

 

Madam Speaker, I do not understand what ba Jack Mwiimbu, oh, Hon. Jack Mwiimbu, the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, I apologise, is trying to do. Clearly, the hon. Minister is trying to turn us into a police State. This Bill is putting arbitrary power, excessive power, in the hands of law enforcement officers.

 

Madam Speaker, Clause 24 states that, “A person shall not use CCTV in a change room or a private restroom”. However, an hon. Minister is excluded from this provision in that her or she can prescribe how you can actually put CCTV in a restroom or change room. Madam Speaker, your Committee has noted that you cannot give such an exception in law because the hon. Minister is going to be given arbitrary power to invade our privacy. Imagine putting CCTV in the toilet. This is what that provision is saying. The hon. Minister can dictate the installation of cameras in our restrooms. This is what it means. If some people are not aware, the change room includes showers and toilets. Through this law, the hon. Minister is being empowered to put cameras in our change rooms or restrooms. This is what the Bill is saying.

 

Madam Speaker, …

 

Mr Munsanje interjected.

 

Mr B. Mpundu: Uyu nao uwacimutwe uyu.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, please, continue. You are addressing me, not your hon. Colleagues.

 

 Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, Clause 30 states that “An officer from the command centre may enter any premise and arrest anyone suspected of committing a crime without any search warrant or arrest warrant.” Why would we want to create a police state where you now give excessive power to law enforcement agencies without an arrest warrant? The Government wants to be coming into our personal properties to search for God knows what. You want to give excessive powers to the police to be arresting people at will. It is one thing for one to have committed a crime, but something else for you to simply suspect that I may commit a crime as if you are a Sangoma. Then, you go a step further to give the police powers to arrest me on mere suspicion that I may commit a crime. You want to give the police and other law enforcement agencies excessive power.

 

Madam Speaker, this is the same thing that the hon. Minister did when we were enacting the Cyber Crimes Bill. Excessive powers were given to law enforcement agencies to invade our privacy. We have ratified the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which dictates that you cannot infringe on people’s right to privacy. That is what Hon. Jack Mwiimbu is trying to do through this law. He wants to get power from people and have it himself so that he can continue to invade our personal property and privacy for his personal use.

 

Madam Speaker, where is ba Hon. Jack Mwiimbu taking us with the laws that he is trying to bring to this House?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: It is the ministry that has presented the Bill, hon. Member.

 

Mr B. Mpundu: I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The last one to debate is the hon. Member for Mongu Central. Please, be mindful of time. We want to close the debate on the Bill.

 

Mr Amutike (Mongu Central): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to debate on behalf of the people of Mongu. I shall be brief in supporting the hon. Minister and the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security on this Bill.

 

Madam Speaker, we have seen that many cities have closed-circuit television (CCTV). I do not think there is any big city in the world without CCTV cameras on the streets and in many important premises. We have seen the advantages of CCTV cameras in promoting public safety. Ours is a Government of law and order and it is embracing technology to protect people and property, as guaranteed by the Constitution. The protection of people is guaranteed by the Constitution of Zambia. There is no way the Government under the leadership of His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, can start invading people’s privacy by installing CCTV cameras in toilets or bathrooms. What would we be looking for? That was, probably, happening under the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, not under the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government. We have no interest in such things. Our interest is in protecting people and property and ensuring that the inner cities are accessible to everybody.

 

Madam Speaker, currently, we have a situation whereby people are scared to go to some areas in Lusaka. People are scared to go to some townships because of crime. So, when we install CCTV cameras like it has been done in some big cities – I lived in Johannesburg for many years. There was a time when people were scared to go to the central business district (CBD) of Johannesburg. However, the introduction of cameras served as a deterrent and the crime rate dropped.

 

Madam Speaker, CCTV cameras are tools for crime prevention and ensuring public safety. Having cameras in public places gives people a peace of mind. They can also be used to collect a lot of data on traffic volumes, which can help us in configuring our traffic rules. We need to embrace technology to address some of these things.

 

Madam Speaker, when we have cameras in public places, we can reduce the cost of managing the police. Instead of planting policemen all over the show, a few individuals can sit in a centre or in a remote area while monitoring what is happening 5 km or 10 km away. So, why would a normal person not embrace technology that ensures that in the long run, the budget for the police is reduced? If CCTV cameras are used effectively, we can know which areas are problematic.

 

Madam Speaker, why would an hon. Member of Parliament be against such a proposal? The people of Mongu are very much in support of this Bill. In my town, Mongu, which we want to create into a city, we have a problem of the so-called junkies. If cameras are installed in public places, we will be able to see and identify children who terrorise people at night. We will be able to deter crime and ensure that people in Mongu are safe. Once this Bill is passed, I will definately propose that part of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) for constituency is used to install CCTV cameras alongside street lights. So, the people of Mongu are very much in support of this Bill.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Thank you, Madam Speaker, for according me this opportunity to comment and respond to some of the issues that have been raised by my hon. Colleagues. I have noted the submissions made by the hon. Members of Parliament for Chienge, Nkana and Mongu Central.

 

As I indicated in my submission, Madam Speaker, this particular Bill was initiated by the Patriotic Front (PF) five years ago. We have merely perfected it to suit the circumstances. I am aware of the sensational submission of Hon. Mpundu, the Member for Nkana.

 

Mr B. Mpundu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: I am responding.

 

Mr B. Mpundu: How can he say sensational?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

 

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: I am responding.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Please, resume your seat, hon. Member.

 

Mr B. Mpundu: He cannot call my debate sensational, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Please, resume your seat, hon. Member. Can we allow the hon. Minister to wind up debate? He has just started responding Hon. Minister, please, wind up debate so that we can close this matter.

 

Interruptions.

 

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member …

 

Interruptions.

 

 Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: … of Parliament for Nkana informed the nation that I will be allowing cameras to be placed in his private toilet and washrooms. That is what he said and I am now responding.

 

Madam Speaker, if an hon. Member of this House or anybody else decides to start making pornographic films in their toilet and bathroom, we will move in. We shall use all the instruments available to ensure that we do not allow people to make pornographic films in this country. We will do that using legal means. It will not be a violation of any law or right.

 

Madam Speaker, there is no right to commit a crime in this country. What we have done, as a Government that is responsible, is brought a law so that the rights of citizens are protected. You are aware that CCTV cameras are in operation everywhere; in public spaces, airports, hotels. What we have done, as a responsible Government, is to protect the public by bringing a law to ensure that there is no abuse. What is wrong with that?

 

Mr Nkandu: Nothing!

 

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: What we are trying to do is to follow the law and ensure that the rights of citizens are protected.

 

Madam Speaker, CCTV cameras are in use. When you go to the bank, you will be filmed. You will be on video tape. What law are you going to use to protect yourself, if not this law? This is the law that will help you to raise an issue if your rights are abused. So, let us not be sensational. Let us speak on behalf of the public.

 

Madam Speaker, we had an issue about the Kafue Road roundabout. Members of the public protested that they were being victimised. That is why we are saying that we need these laws to protect members of the public.

 

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Members who made submissions in support of this Bill, and those who are against for they have their own ulterior motives.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

 

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.     

 

Committee on Wednesday, 25^th June, 2025.

 

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MOTION

 

ADJOURNMENT

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

 

Question put and agreed.

 

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The House adjourned at 1254 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 24^th June, 2025.

 

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