Friday, 6^th December, 2024

The House met at 0900 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM SPEAKER

VISITOR FROM LUTANDO YOUTH AND YOUNG WOMEN’S EMPOWERMENT ORGANISATION

Madam Speaker: Hon Members, I wish to recognise the presence, in the Public Gallery, of a visitor from Lutando Youth and Young Women’s Empowerment Organisation (LYYWEO), from Chipata District, Eastern Province.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitor into our midst.

 Thank you.

VISITORS FROM LUANSHYA PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

 Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence, in the Public Gallery, of visitors from Luanshya Parliamentary Constituency, in Luanshya District.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

Thank you.

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URGENT MATTERS WITHOUT NOTICE

MR KANGOMBE, HON. MEMBER FOR SESHEKE, ON HER HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT, ON THE SHORTAGE OF BORDER PASSES IN SESHEKE

Mr Kangombe (Sesheke): On behalf of the people of Sesheke, Madam Speaker, this urgent matter without notice is directed to Her Honour the Vice-President. You may wish to note that most of the borders, if not all, have run short of border passes, and Sesheke, to be specific, has one place that, to access it, you have to go through Namibia. That place is in Imusho. During this time, when the borders do not have border passes, the people of Imusho are completely cut off from the rest of the country.

Secondly, Sesheke is a twenty-four-hour economy, where trade between two countries entirely depends on the same border passes. The absence of border passes has made the lives for the people of Sesheke difficult to access certain amenities as well as the flow of business within the two countries.

Mr Mwiimbu, SC. entered the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Kangombe: I seek Her Honour the Vice-President’s intervention, and I am happy that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security has just walked in.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much, hon. Member for Sesheke.

Considering that we are adjourning today, even if the matter was to be admitted, Her Honour the Vice-President will have to come within twenty-four hours. So, it will not serve the purpose. I suggest you ask the question during Her Honour The Vice-President’s Question Time. Maybe, that will be of some help to you. Otherwise, you can file in an ordinary question.

MR B. MPUNDU, HON. MEMBER FOR NKANA, ON HER HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT, ON THE MEASURES THE GOVERNMENT IS EMPLOYING TO GUARANTEE FOOD SECURITY

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): On an Urgent Matter Without Notice, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: An Urgent Matter Without Notice is raised.

Mr B. Mpundu Madam Speaker, I rise to present this Urgent Matter Without Notice to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, some time back, we did plead with the hon. Minister of Agriculture for him to not sell our maize to Tanzania and other countries. Today, being 6^th December, it is clear we are about to experience another drought. It means that our production is still going to be chaotic. Therefore, we will depend on support from other countries. Today, the people to whom we sold our maize have refused to continue selling us back that maize, and I mean Tanzania. You are aware that Tanzania has stopped selling maize to Zambia because Hon. Mtolo has stopped paying that country, ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr B. Mpundu: This is going to pose a threat to the food security of this country, and our people may die of hunger.

Madam Speaker, is Her Honour the Vice-President in order to sit and not come to update the country as to what other measures the Government is going to employ to guarantee the citizens' food security since the people we sold maize to have now refused to sell us back that maize?

Madam Speaker: Thank you.

Hon. Member for Nkana, just as I guided the hon. Member for Sesheke, I am sure you know that today, we are adjourning, and according to our Standing Orders, when an Urgent Matter Without Notice is admitted, if at all, it is admitted, a statement will have to be rendered within twenty-four hours. So, because we will not be around until February, I suggest you file in a question.

I think that is –

Mr Mtayachalo indicated to raise an Urgent Matter Without Notice.  

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chama North, I think it applies to you too, if you are raising an Urgent Matter Without Notice. Let us wait for Her Honour the Vice-President. Are you just in anticipation? Are you already trying to hit the line (laughed)? No, we have not reached that point yet. Please clear the list and lock it.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Please, clear it so that we make progress.                                                                                                          

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THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Madam Speaker: Just an observation, as we were singing the National Anthem, the hon. Member for Mpika, who is always number one when it comes to singing, was not singing today. He was just standing, and I was wondering if he needs help with the words or maybe today, he has woken up in a bad mood.

Laughter

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Madam Speaker, I was actually singing loudly. Maybe, you did not just see my lips moving. Good morning, Madam.

Madam Speaker, thank you so much for this opportunity to interact with Her Honour the Vice- President. Good Morning your Honour.

Madam Speaker, my very simple question to Her Honour the Vice-President is: Between now and 2026, when will her Government improve the living standards of our people who are suffering and failing to eat three times a day because of her Government’s harsh economic policies?

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, thank you. Good morning, hon. Member for Mpika and thank you for that politically motivated question.

Mr Kapyanga: Question!

The Vice-President: Yes, there is no reality.

Madam Speaker, we are working every day. What we are doing every day is improving the living standards of our people. What is the hon. Member saying we are doing or not doing? I think that the hon. Member has to be specific. He is asking a general question so that the people in Mpika can hear that he has asked a question. There is no question in this. It is too broad and it has lost meaning. Between now and 2026, what are we going to do to improve the living standards of the people? How do you improve people’s living standards? It is by growing the economy. That is the way we improve and that is what we are doing. We are working hard. How do we improve the economy of our country, for example?  We have to grow it. I do not know whether I am using the right words, but the financial sector is very important. We are looking towards ensuring that people get jobs because that is the way of improving the living standards. How are the people going to get jobs? It is through the investment that is coming in, including the investment in the mines. Jobs are being created every day, in line with our promises.

Madam Speaker, this is how we will eliminate poverty in our land. Our land has not reached the wealth accumulation stage. We are at a stage where people basically must just have something to live on. That is what we are doing. Jobs are created in the mines. I will not talk about mining because it was just yesterday when the hon. Minister talked about how many mines we have opened. Who is going there? The hon. Minister responsible for roads is working hard too. Whether the investment is coming under the public-private partnership (PPP), it is serving the people. We are not only constructing roads, but also creating jobs through road construction. So, we are working. Under the Ministry of Agriculture, when we talk of supporting the small-scale farmers, that is job creation. I can go on.

Madam Speaker, we need to give people jobs and, that is something we are doing. We are also helping them in agriculture and we will continue with the social welfare support through the many different interventions like the enhanced Social Cash Transfer and the Cash for Work programmes. All these are interventions that we are taking to ensure that our people can, at least, live seemingly decent lives under very difficult conditions. I will not shy away from saying the conditions are not easy to handle. That is not only for Zambia, it is a global issue. The climate change issues are impacting us. So, as a leader and Member of Parliament for Mpika, he should stand with his people and say we will survive. What can we do to go through this? This is not political. Whether he says he wants to change the Government, because that is the intention, the Government will not be changed because people understand the efforts.

Madam Speaker, some of the things we are doing were brought on us by his Government. For me it is – no, I will not say and I that thank God for reminding me. His Government did a lot of harm. Before he came to this House, I used to sit here under this hon. Minister (Pointing at Dr. Musokotwane) I sat there (Pointing at the Speaker’s seat). The economy under the Movement for Mult-party Democracy (MMD) Government, which they kicked out, was far much better. However, the Patriotic Front (PF) came into office and everything was eaten. We went back to debts which we were forgiven and improved on that. The hon. Member can talk of the statistics and figures but we are not crying because we are working hard to repair the damage what was done. This is what we are doing. I can tell you the successes and people are watching.

Madam Speaker, yes, people are stressed, but who is not? The hon. Member knows that the world is going through stress and this is what we should tell our people. What should we change? How hard should we work, as a people, so that we can live better? I can go on, but I think I will end here.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kangombe (Sesheke): Madam Speaker, you may wish to note that most borders have run short of border passes. Her Honour the Vice-President may wish to note that Imusho in Sesheke, which has a twenty-four-hour economy, cannot be accessed without going through Namibia. As the situation stands, the people of Imusho are completely cut off. They cannot go to Sesheke, neither can they go to Namibia to access certain goods that they may need. What is Government’s position on this matter?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Member for Sesheke for that concern.

Madam, the Government is aware of this critical issue. That is how I can put it. The passes and all that facilitates the movements of the people of Imusho are not available. The Government is doing everything possible to find a solution to this situation. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is working with the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. Our prayer is that the problem is resolved very quickly because we cannot leave a situation like that.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Madam Speaker, when I was coming for work, I saw a building that had two doors. One door was the entry and the other the exit.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Do not give us riddles. Ask the question. Is it storytelling time or what? Did we not all come in through some doors?

Laughter

Mr Chisopa: The exit one was written UPND (United Party for National Development) because they are going in 2026.

Madam Speaker, in the 2021/2022 Farming Season, the Government failed to supply fertiliser. In Luano, we get two bags and, sometimes, we share one and a half bags. In the 2023/2024 Farming Season, the Government failed to supply fertiliser. The 2024/2025 Farming Season is a disaster …

Mr Kabuswe: Question!

Mr Chisopa: … in terms of fertiliser distribution.

You can say ‘Question’. You are going. You can question for the last time.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Mr Chisopa: Those are the symptoms, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Mkushi South, you are a senior member of this House, and you are even a former Minister. I am sure, you know how to ask questions. Please, ask your question. It does not matter who is going where. We have not even reached where you are saying they are going. So, just ask your question.

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, thank you for your guidance.

Madam Speaker, now that they have only got one season, the 2025/2026 Farming Season, is Her Honour the Vice-President promising the people of Zambia, this time around, that the Government is going to improve in terms of fertiliser distribution?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Mkushi South for the question. He entered this place and he will exit. Today, we are adjourning sine die and we will all exit and go home. However, if the hon. Member is talking about political winning and losing –

Colleagues, let us not get engulfed in politics and forget that people are observing. People understand and know the difficulties that we are passing through. They also have the capacity to tackle the issues that beset us. It is very unfortunate for the hon. Member to say that we have failed to supply fertiliser. We have supplied fertiliser. We have kept a number – where is Mtolo – of bags of fertiliser. We have even introduced Sustainable Agriculture Financing Facility (SAF), which is another window that has been added to what the previous Government did. So, how does the hon. Member say that we have failed? What failure is this? It is failure in the political space. It is not failure in reality.

Madam Speaker, we are still promising the Zambian people that we walk the talk. We will work as the environment evolves, as God brings different issues, but that which man brought, is what we are resolving, including paying back the debt that our colleagues left. You have to tell the people that this Government is paying off the debt. It restructured the debt and it is paying the debt which his Government left, for the sake of the Zambian people and they have seen that. I get worried when I see colleagues forget the damage and think Zambians have also forgotten. They have not forgotten, that I can tell you, and we shall see in 2026.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: This time, your numbers (pointing at the Opposition Bench) will even be worse.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: We shall see. Us, we are working. Eyes on the ball. We are providing for our people under difficult circumstances.

Mr Samakayi: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, if the drought happened when some of those on your left were in the Government, people could have died but, to date, we have not witnessed any deaths. So, I am wondering what failure the hon. Member is talking about, when we have been sending all the fertiliser. Only Luano – fertiliser is there. We have taken the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) by record, 100 per cent. We are distributing fertiliser and seed, and implementing the SAFF.

Madam Speaker, regarding the loans that we are working on, indeed, there has been a delay, in terms of disbursing the SAFF, but we believe by next week, people will get the money. That is an increase in farmer support, and we pray that there will be an increase in the production of crops. We also pray that God releases rain. If he releases rain, next year, they will not have any questions. They will be surprised.

An hon. Member interjected.

The Vice-President: That is true. The economy looks bright.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, good morning to Her Honour the Vice-President and I also want to congratulate her on the successful launch of the book that I am awaiting to read.

Madam Speaker, Her Honour the Vice-President is right that the Government is working very hard to turn around the economy and, she did indicate to this House that there is what we are calling the Nalumangonomics.

Mr Samakayi: Question!

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, recently, the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) increased the monetary policy rate. This, to me, means that the lending rates have gone up and very few people in this country will be doing business because they will need to borrow from banks for them to invest. If that is the case, it means that for those who have already borrowed from banks, the interest rates will go up. Some of them might even fail to pay back their loans. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning wants people to contribute to the national basket by way of paying their taxes and maintaining their business portfolios. That being the case, what is the Government doing to ensure that those who have borrowed are cushioned so that they do not fail to manage their businesses while ensuring that the economy is also operating, and that those who have workers pay salaries and also cushion those who might not manage to feed their families because, now, the burden is becoming overloaded?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, some questions, we leave to experts. I think, with all that the hon. Member has said, in my mind, his concern is about the individuals who have borrowed from the banks. He said that because of the fluctuation, I hope I got that, of the exchange rate then the loans seem not to be –

Mr Mutale indicated dissent.

The Vice-President: Is that what you said?

Madam Speaker, I may not have gotten everything. Maybe, he can repeat the question because I have to get the narrative so that I can answer.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chitambo, as you ask your question, please, be precise. Do not debate. Otherwise, your question will be lost in words. You can repeat the question, and be precise.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, it is just about the cost of doing business, which has gone up. So, I needed an answer to that. What is the Government doing to cushion businesses so that the economy rebounds?

Madam Speaker: If I can recall, it appears the question is similar to the one asked by the hon. Member for Mpika. It is a similar question repeated in a different way.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, basically, it is true that the cost of doing business affects the living standard of business people except that this time, again, the question is a little bit different. The hon. Member said that because of this and that, people borrow, but when they borrow, what is the Government doing? Let me state that businessmen are still doing business and they are still borrowing from the banks. So, when the businessmen borrow, it becomes a contract. They sign a contract. In my own raw thinking, I suppose that when they borrow, and, in case, the repayment becomes difficult, normally, the banks will also assess and will be able to see and, probably, increase the period of payment like we have done, as a country, to have our debt restructured because the banks would not want to squeeze business people out of business. They are working to ensure that they remain in business because when they remain in business, the banks also remain in business. I am sure there is a mutual understanding in what is happening, but generally, what are we doing for business and the economy. Like you heard, the Government has explained that difficult as it is, it will keep the economy running. It will not collapse like it almost did in 2021.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simushi (Sikongo): Madam Speaker, the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government won the 2021 Elections with a landslide victory due to the confidence the Zambians had in the UPND Administration.

Madam Speaker, it is not debatable that the Patriotic Front (PF) was so shocked at such an embarrassing loss in the 2021 General Elections. However, the people of Sikongo are surprised at the level of bitterness that is still being exhibited by …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Simushi: … our hon. Colleagues from the PF; three years down the road. I would like to know the message of comfort and encouragement Her Honour the Vice-President has for our hon. Colleagues? If they continue on this path, we may end up losing some of them to diseases such as high blood pressure (BP) and diabetes.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Ema question aya!

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, such should be the questions asked and not the one from the hon. Member for Chitambo.

Laughter

Mr Mutale: Ah!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I will start with the hon. Member for Sikongo’s concern. This is to do with the level of bitterness being exhibited by some of our hon. Colleagues. He has asked me for advice and I will give advice.

It is important to understand that what goes up, comes down. When it is down, do not hold on to a broken string?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, colleagues, you have gone.

Laughter

The Vice-President: So, the best the hon. Member for Bwacha can do is to adjust. Life is about adjusting.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Thank you very much.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam speaker, the best is to adjust. It is an expectation. One was born, and when one is dead, that is it. One is gone. All one can do is, indeed, adjust and remove any bitterness. It is very good because when one embraces that is which is going on –

Madam Speaker, I am not saying that there should not be opposition from our colleagues, but they should do it with civility and with real concern for the people. That is what it means, Hon. Mpundu.  When you have gone there, continue thanking God that you are still participating in the governance, but bitterness –

The hon. Member has warned us that bitterness can bring BP …

Laughter

The Vice-President: … and many other diseases.

Laughter

The Vice-President: The counsel for our hon. Colleagues is to stop being bitter. It is part of life, but they should not think that they are coming back tomorrow; that is where the bitterness is coming from. If they relax and know that they did their part, they should just support and help us. In supporting us, I am not saying that they should agree with us all the time. That is not what it means. It means making us sit up. To me, that is what democracy means. They speak to make us sit up. We are in Government and we are seeing things from one angle and they are seeing things from another angle. Together, let us work and build our country. Bitterness will not help anybody. In fact, the more bitter you are, hon. Member for Chama North, the more you lose.

Laughter

 The Vice-President: People do not like bitter people. So, relax and enjoy your position. We are here this time.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!    

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Malambo (Magoye): Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to ask a question, and good morning to Madam Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, I would like to know from Her Honour the Vice-President …

Interruptions

Mr Malambo: They are making noise.

The Vice-President: Is he too far from the microphone?

 Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

Mr Malambo: I hope you are getting me.

Laughter

Mr Malambo: Madam Speaker, this is a true Zambian height.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear! Neighbour!

Mr Malambo: Madam Speaker, I just want to know, on behalf of the people of Magoye Constituency, which I ably represent, what the Government’s position is in relation to helping the community that has a lot of money, but unfortunately, the number of bags of maize that is allocated is too small. We are grateful for the maize that is available for us to buy and people have resources to buy through the Social Cash Transfer (SCT) and also Cash for Work programmes. The money is available and the maize is also available in the sheds, but unfortunately, the number of bags of maize allocated per week is too small. In many wards, it is about 300 bags of maize, yet the households that need the maize are many.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank my son, the youthful hon. Member of Parliament for Magoye Constituency.

Madam Speaker, I hope that through this question, I am speaking to all of us who need maize. The Government understands, and I would like to thank him because he is saying that maize is available in Magoye where it did not even grow due to the drought. How did the maize get there? This Government is working to provide maize.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, people have money, and who is making that happen? It is this Government. However, the point the hon. Member has raised is that the maize allocated, not necessarily available, is not enough to go around.

Madam Speaker, this is the feedback we should be getting from him. Before we adjourned the last meeting, we met and we said that we needed feedback from the hon. Members.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member should not come here and start asking questions. Is he doing politics so that people in Magoye can hear?  This is how policies change. We have to ensure that we give the constituencies enough maize for the people.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Agriculture is here and he can confirm that the maize is still available. So, we will make it available and even other constituencies where they think the maize is not enough, and it is not going around because of the allocation, please, they should not hesitate to go to the hon. Minister of Agriculture and tell him that the allocation is not enough. In fact, we asked for populations in those constituencies and wards so that we could not be hunting in the dark.

 Madam Speaker, we want to know how many people are in each ward. For my office, we have that information so we can work together with the hon. Minister of Agriculture to know how many people there are in those places and let them be availed or allocated enough maize because we have said that no one should die of hunger.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr C. Chibuye (Mkushi North): Madam Speaker, I would like to say good morning to Her Honour the Vice-President. 

Madam Speaker, I will repeat the question that I asked on Tuesday concerning the Sustainable Agriculture Financing Facility (SAFF). I hope that the hon. Minister of Agriculture will put words in Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, Mkushi has farmers who have applied for this loan facility. However, to date, the farmers have not received any feedback as to when they will receive these loans. The banks that are undertaking this programme are not giving our farmers the information as to when they will receive these inputs.

Madam Speaker, if the monies are given to these farmers in January, they will serve no purpose because the purpose is to use this money for agriculture. So, when are our farmers receiving the monies under the SAFF?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I should also say good morning to the hon. Member.

Madam Speaker, I think, the concern is that there is a delay. I agree, there is a delay. Some places received rainfall, but I also believe that God works in a good way. I am told that, this is being done right now.  The National Savings & Credit Bank and other banks have started giving out the loans. They have released the codes and the loans will be accessed from now through next week. Indeed, we regret the delay, but the Government is aware. We need these people to produce this year, and we are working on that.

Madam Speaker, within next week, we should see a serious movement.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Yes, next week.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I think NATSAVE has already released the money this week. However, other banks are coming in next week. There was a little problem in between, but it has been resolved now and we pray that people will not get these loans in January. I agree with him that people should get the loans now.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Jamba (Mwembezhi): Madam Speaker, a lot of things are happening in my constituency. The people in my constituency were glued to the new technology which informed them that by this time, the southern parts of Zambia would have rainfall.

Madam Speaker, people got a lot of money and planted the maize. However, the people in Mwembezhi are wondering as to whether the data which was given by the Meteorological Department in the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment was accurate. 

Madam Speaker, there is a drought after planting the maize and this is very serious because if it does not rain, there is going to be more hunger than the hunger we are experiencing this year. So, the people of Mwembezhi would want to understand the Government’s plans. We have seen that there is already a drought. So, can we go and assure the people in Mwembezhi that they will not die?

Madam Speaker, the people in Mwembezhi planted and the maize has not yet germinated. So, what has Her Honour the Vice-President got to say about the data from the Meteorological Department and what is happening on the ground?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Mwembezhi for this very important question. In fact, if we had time, we would probably have issued a Ministerial Statement on the matter.

Madam Speaker, the concern is, are we going to rely on the meteorological reports that we are gauging on the projections or the reports. On whether this information is reliable, yes, it is humanly. The information that the Meteorological Department gives to the public, through the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment, is not just obtained by the department alone. It is also a regional matter. In fact, this heat and the lack of rainfall now, is attributed to an influence from the Botswana winds. So, the department does not obtain the information alone. The information that it gives is very truthful but, unfortunately, the capacity to tell beyond this may not be there. Basically, no one is getting it right. I am sorry to say this. If you are observing what is going on concerning the issue of climate globally, you will be surprised. In one country, yesterday, I saw that there was a warning of a tsunami. I think, those who watched the news item heard that but, by the end of the day, they said it would not come. However, they had a terrible earthquake. We have seen that people are dying in developed countries because of the disasters that are induced by climate change. So, your Government is doing whatever it can, within the means available to it, and is informing the public.

Madam Speaker, the information at the moment is not completely decisive that there will be no rainfall. So, we have not declared that there will be a drought. In fact, that statement talked about the rainfall probably starting after 10^th December, but I understand that last year, we also had the same situation. However, you cannot tell people to not plant. That is very important. Farmers here know that if there is any profession that has faith or is it any –

Mr Jamba: Profession.

The Vice-President: It is profession. Oh good. Thank you, my son.

Madam Speaker, farmers have faith because they do not stop planting. This hon. Member is a farmer. He lost hundred hectares last year, but he has already planted two hundred this time. That is the faith I am talking about.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Yes, he is rich, but we are not saying everybody should plant because riches are relative. Even the one who plants one hectare is rich according to that. Therefore, losing one hectare is painful to that person as it may be painful to a rich person who loses hundred hectares. So, the feeling is the same. The point is, let us encourage farmers to continue planting. The reports will continue coming. We cannot conclude now that there will be no rain; it is a drought. Unfortunately, we have gone through this period, but we still believe in the reports that we got from the Meteorological Department that there will be rainfall. This time, hopefully, it will cover the rest of the country. It is raining up north in certain parts, but the south is, again, affected. We pray that come 10^th December or after 10^th or 12^th December, it will start raining, and what we would have planted or what we are about to plant will survive. It is not the work of man; you will say acts of God.

I thank you Madam Speaker.

Mr J. Daka (Chadiza): Madam Speaker, in August this year at the Kulamba Traditional Ceremony of the Chewa people of the Eastern Province, His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, promised the people of Chadiza that before the end of this year, there would be a ground-breaking ceremony for the upgrading of the Chipata/Chadiza Road to bituminous standard. Now that Parliament is adjourning today, the people of Chadiza would like to know when the President is going to conduct a ground-breaking ceremony for the upgrading to bituminous standard of the much spoken about Chipata/Chadiza Road?

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

I thought today is 6^th December.

Her Honour the Vice-President may respond.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Chadiza stated that the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, promised that before the end of this year, there would be a ground-breaking ceremony for the Chadiza/Chipata Road. We walk the talk; he walks the talk. The bid is out. Out of three bidders, one contractor has already been picked. You say selected, huh? One contractor has been selected. Therefore, it is just the little processes that are going on and we pray they will probably be done by 31^st December. If they are not done by then, you will have to bear with us a little further, but this will be done within the timeframe that was given. We are on it.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, this being the last Vice-President’s Question Time for 2024, allow me to congratulate Her Honour the Vice-President on her performance; it has been impressive. I also want to put it on record that last week on Friday, in my question, I made a comment to the effect that the President was under state capture, a comment that I regret having made, and I have since apologised to the President.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mumba: Madam Speaker, all the hon. Members of Parliament have expressed concern on the cost of mealie meal. For us in Kantanshi, we have highly benefitted from the leadership. We have benefited from the re-opening of Mopani Copper Mine. We have benefited from the construction of the Mukambo Road. We have benefitted from the Cash for Work programme and a number of other Government interventions. However, we are struggling with the cost of mealie meal. Are there any deliberate steps the Government is going to take? It seems in the last three years, the cost of mealie meal has been so elusive. Amongst all the big challenges the Government has had, which it has been able to sort out, mealie meal has been a big issue. Is Her Honour the Vice-President able to give us a clear strategy or steps that the Government is going to take so that our people can have confidence that as much as they are benefiting from all these other programmes, indeed, the cost of mealie meal will equally drop?

The Vice-President: Thank you very much. At least, today, there were no issues to do with accounts, the economy and so on and so forth (laughing). It is important to admit one’s capacity. There are things for which I have to completely rely on somebody else because I may not fully understand them without being briefed.

Madam Speaker, let me start by accepting the apology, and I thank the hon. Member foe Kantanshi very much, just as I thank the hon. Member for Chitambo for congratulating me for being an author and for producing a book. It is a simple book and I thank the hon. Members that have had sight of it. It is simple, but very important. It is important that hon. Members buy it for their children, if they cannot read it. It is a story of my life. Oh! Sorry, I am taking too long. I know he is now complaining; that is hon. Kafwaya. Let me talk about myself a little.

Laughter 

The Vice-President: I am just acknowledging the appreciation. The book is available; you can go and buy one. Thank you very much.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member’s concern is on the cost of living. After he appreciates all that has been done; the roads and the interventions on the drought and hunger. When the hon. Member says ‘cost of living’, what is it that he is talking about? In my mind, I ask myself what he is talking about when he talks about the cost of living.

Madam Speaker, why does the hon. Member think the Government is giving out funds under the Social Cash Transfer (SCT)? What are they for? Is it not to mitigate the effects of the cost of living? For example, the interventions regarding mealie meal prices are available. The real answer to the end; for the Government to end the relief programme that is related to the drought and not the Social Cash Transfer, we must have enough well-paying jobs. Like I said, it is the same question. ‘Cost of living’ is a very general statement. There are many things that improve the cost of living. Even the hon. Member’s road is working on the cost of living because it makes or gives people the ability to move and engage economic activities. To me, in nalumangonomics, one thinks holistically.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: One does not think of one activity; all the activities link to the cost of living. That is what it means. If there is no road in Kaputa, then, there is a problem, but when the road is there, the hon. Member’s people will be happy because they will be able to move here and there to engage in economic activities, which brings food on the table. So, if the cost of living is related to food, that is why we are bringing in interventions.

Madam Speaker, now that it is the last day of the Meeting for 2024, like the hon. Member has said, I am happy that it is the last Friday in 2024 for me. Allow me or give me some extra time to conclude by saying that this Government is working to improve the living standards of the people. It may seem to not be there, but it is there, and it is working every day, unlike some people who were going backwards like your Government, Sir (pointing at Hon. Mumba).

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, hon. Members must not forget that the Government has provided free education.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Then they ask me what the cost of living is? Do they not know that when a child does not pay for school, the little the parents were supposed to pay remains in the …

Hon. Government Members: Pockets!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, that is improving the cost of living. It will be an addition on the purchase of the mealie meal that the hon. Member is concerned about. When the Government gives the 20 per cent partial payments under the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA), do they not think that we are improving the lives of people in their homes? Indeed, it is disposable income and it will also have a ripple effect because those families get involved in economic activities.

Madam Speaker, what about the Constituency Development Fund (CDF)?

Mr Nkandu: Eh!

The Vice-President: Where is it going? I am telling hon. Members that the little projects that they are doing are not being done by them, but the people they give the small contracts, and it is improving the cost of living. That is why I said that the cost of living is not a one-off thing, but has to be seen in all the things that the Government is doing. That is the real concern for the people of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, many mines are opening. Yesterday, somebody said that one cannot count them. More will open by next year, that I can assure you.

Mr Kangombe: Continue, continue!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, when we talk of –. I have talked of roads, mealie meal and the meal allowance …

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Please, please, that is the cost of living. I have talked about the roads, Sir. That it is reduction on the cost of living. I think, I can go on and on, but all these are addressing the cost of living. Maybe, ‘Mr Economist’, (pointing at Hon. Mumba) you do not know that working on the roads improves the cost of living. So, whatever the Government is doing is for the people and to ensure that the cost of living for our people is stabilized and brought down, is made affordable, and it will continue to create jobs and see that in Mopani – Look at the jobs and the contracts.

Mr Nkandu: Hear, hear! Yes!

 The Vice-President: Of all the Governments that have been in Zambia, you should stand on your head and thank the current one, and Hon. Mpundu, it is my last day in 2024 and the Government has done wonders.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: We will continue to improve the lives of our people, and I am assuring them, through this August House, that His Excellency, Hakainde Hichilema, the President of the Republic of Zambia, is thinking all the time. Be assured that we will continue to improve, and it is my hope that next year, there will be less voices because of what would have happened with the economy. We have been assured – Where is my hon. Minister? Has he gone?

Mr Nkandu: He is here.

The Vice-President: We have been assured by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning that the economy has a brighter future and a brighter look for 2025 with the mines opening, with the contracts being signed and jobs being created all over.

Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Members for the support they have given to ...

Hon. Government Members: Continue, continue!

Mr Mpundu rose.

The Vice-President: … this office and, indeed, the questions that make my head move, but I hope the answers, according to what I know, are not meant to satisfy the hon. Colleagues. They are meant to bring facts. You may not like my answers, but please, like me.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr B Mpundu (Nkana): On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Ah! Sit down!

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr B Mpundu: Madam Speaker, as guided by Standing Order No. 71, the procedures of Parliament do not allow us to raise points of order during the Vice-President’s Question Time. I have been sitting here for the last forty-seven minutes listening to Her Honour the Vice-President, particularly that she has stressed so much on the issue of the cost of living. She concluded by stating that the United Party for National Development (UPND) is producing wonders.

Hon. Government Members: Sit down!

Mr B Mpundu: This House dictates that we must be factual. Among the other components of the cost of living is the access to medical services.

Madam Speaker is Her Honour the Vice-President in order to ...

Laughter

Mr B Mpundu: ... stand there proudly, and talk about the Government working to improve the cost of living when our people are dying on their way from the defunct Cancer Diseases Hospital into Tanzania …

Hon Government Members: Question!

Mr B Mpundu: … when this Government spent US$21 million to build a hospital in the Central African Republic, which hospital is not even existent as we speak today?

Hon Government Members: Sit down!

Mr B Mpundu: I know, Madam Vice-President, that imwe, tamulyamo, but this ...

Mr Chaatila rose.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Nkana, what you are doing is not raising a point of order but you are raising issues relating to a hospital in – That is not a point of order. Even if you had that hospital, do you have evidence to show that that hospital was built and that Her Honour the Vice-President has not benefitted from it? All that is not necessary, and it is not even a point of order. Please, get to your point of order so that we make progress.

Mr B Mpundu: Madam Speaker is Her Honour the Vice-President in order to assure the Zambian people that her Government is working hard in addressing the cost of living when this Government has failed to just address the issue of facilitating the equipping of the Cancer Diseases Hospital (CDH) to prevent lives from being lost between that defunct hospital into Tanzania?

Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence.

Hon Government Members: Question!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member this issue of the cost of living, I think, was asked by three hon. Members, but I am just wondering who else can stand proudly and talk about the success of the performance of their Government other than Her Honour the Vice-President herself. She is speaking from facts and from what she is doing. So, if we have other proof to show that the Government is not performing, bring the evidence, but Her Honour the Vice-President has given the reasons she believes her Government is performing. So, can we really raise a point of order on that?

Let us make progress.

_______

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

The Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts (Mr Nkandu): Madam Speaker, thank you very much. I should also add a voice to those who may congratulate Her Honour the Vice-President for her exemplary leadership in this House. Thank you very much for guiding us to a level where we are now.

Madam Speaker, I wish to thank you more sincerely for giving me the opportunity to address this august House and through this House, to inform the nation on the importance of developing a multi-sport facility in each constituency. This will not only address the physical, social and economic aspects but will act as a pillar of holistic development in each constituency.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, as you may be aware, Zambia has achieved significant milestones in sports across various disciplines in recent years, such as in athletics where Muzala Samukonga won Zambia’s Olympic medal after twenty-eight years at the 2024 Paris Games, breaking a national record in the process.

Madam Speaker, in football, we are also aware that the Copper Queens achieved notable successes in participating in the 2023 Fédération Internationale de Football Association (FIFA) Women’s World Cup for the first time in the history of this country.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, they also qualified for the Women’s 2024 Africa Cup of Nations and securing back-to-back Olympic Games qualifications, again, for the first time in the history of this country.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, additionally, our very own Barbara Banda, Copper Queens and Orlando Pride striker, won the 2024 British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) Women’s Footballer of the Year. Suffice to mention that our very own, once again, Barbara Banda and Rachael Kundananji are the most expensive players in the world.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, if one cannot talk about this achievement, then what is one talking about. Anyway, dreams are free. People can continue dreaming. You are going, yet we are achieving a lot.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Member: Tell them.

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, hosting of events such as Strongman African Championship, Professional Boxing bouts and all of us are aware of the Barcelona and African Legends that have contributed to increase sports tourism and economic development.

Madam Speaker, in 2023, Zambia won the best sporting nation in Southern Africa and in the regional awards. As you may be aware, through the directive of the Republican President Mr Hakainde Hichilema, I am one of the Ministers who has facilitated the equal pay for both male and female soccer player bridging the gender disparity.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, to crown it all, the Republican President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, has said that there is no minor sport in this country. Hence, all sport codes must receive equal attention for the betterment of the game. These are achievements. Yesterday, the Zambia Under 17 Boys National Football Team beat Namibia 8-0.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, the Under-20 boys National Football Team and the Under 20 Girls National Football Team each won the Council of Southern Africa Football Associations (COSAFA) tournament trophy. Then, yesterday, the Under-17 team walloped Namibia by that margin I mentioned; 8-0. Those are achievements.

Madam Speaker, the country stands to do better than the aforementioned achievements if only we can roll out the multi-sport facilities in each constituency of Zambia. The benefit of such a project serves as a critical component for community development in the following ways:

1. promotion of health and wellness exercises, a catalyst for combating non-communicable diseases such as diabetes and hypertension;

1. fostering recreation will promote mental health and social interactions. Hence, mitigating against bad vices, such as unwanted pregnancies and junkies in the street. Further, this approach will enable our young people to stay away from the drugs, alcohol and substance abuse;

1. talent identification and development which is a form of youth empowerment and pathway to professional sport;

1. gender inclusivity of women, children and people with disabilities as we believe that sport is not just a pivotal vehicle for alleviating poverty from our youth but also for job creation. Above all, sport is a unifier. I have never heard anyone saying ‘this is my religion or this is my political party’ when at the stadium. All of us just cheer. That is how sport can unify our country; and

1. ultimately, the multi-sports facilities support Zambia’s 3020 Vision of becoming a healthy, educated and a middle-income country. Additionally, this project will promote entrepreneurship among our young people.

Madam Speaker, as you may be aware, the ministry devolved community sport function together with a corresponding amount of K30 million for all the local authorities in the country. This was according to the National Decentralisation Policy of 2023, the Local Government Act and the National Decentralisation Strategy. The aim is to empower the community to take charge of their sports development and promote broader societal benefits. Therefore, the multi-sports facilities are a very important tool in realising this aim, and is a must for talent identification and development.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

Madam Speaker, it is now our task, as hon. Members, to sensitise our constituencies on the modalities of accessing this community sport fund. To this effect, the ministry developed standard operating procedures which were ably shared with some of the provinces, as the programme is still on-going.

Madam Speaker, the proposed budget for the development of a multi-sports facility to be considered by various constituencies is in the range of K7 million and K15 million, broken down as follows:

1. in case, you want only a soccer pitch and a multi-purpose court, the cost is K9 million. When we say multi-purpose court, this is where we have volleyball, tennis, netball and all other sports courts plus a soccer pitch. The soccer pitch comes with a good grandstand and some terraces;

1. running track, which is K5 million; and

1. futsal and multi-purpose court. Here, we are talking about a football pitch and the multi-purpose courts which costs between K7 million and K15 million. A futsal and a multi-purpose court is about K8,749,624.80. Again, you have a futsal court and other courts which I mentioned, such as the ones for volleyball, handball and others.

Madam Speaker, allow me to clarify, here, that the ministry is engaging with contractors on how best the project can be delivered at a minimal cost without jeopardising the works. This is so because some places, due to their distances and their landscape, will have different cost estimates.

Madam Speaker, this project can be realised from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) in a phased manner, and I repeat: in a phased manner. For instance, you can start with the football pitch in one year, constructing a tennis court in another year, and so on and so forth.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, I know the hon. Member for Mandevu wanted the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts to give him everything. We are talking about community sport, and he is also part of it. As hon. Members, let us also tap into the CDF. I repeat: let us tap into the CDF besides other avenues of financing. Underline ‘besides other avenues of financing’.

Madam Speaker, therefore, this project calls for concerted collaboration from hon. Members of Parliament to come on board and make it a reality. I, therefore, call upon them to plan and budget for this project, starting 2025. Thus, during this break, I encourage all hon. Members of Parliament to take it upon themselves to sensitise their respective communities on the benefits of multi-sports facilities in the advancement of sports development.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, allow me to state that the Government remains committed in ensuring that the dream of constructing multi-sports facilities in all constituencies is realised. It will not just be about infrastructure, but about empowering our youths, strengthening communities and positioning Zambia on the global sports map. Together, let us ensure that sports become a cornerstone of national pride and development.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the Ministerial Statement presented by the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts.

Mr Chisanga (Lukashya): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to be the first one to ask a question to the hon. Minister on his Ministerial Statement.

Madam Speaker, I am as worried as many other hon. Members, as regards your Ministerial Statement. The Constituency Development Fund (CDF) has been very difficult to implement on this capital project in the constituencies. What mechanism will the Government put into place that your area of interest or expertise will not present similar complications in sourcing funds for implementing these projects?

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question.

Madam Speaker, the measures have already been put in place. This is the only ministry that has never tapped into the CDF. Other ministries, such as education and health, to mention a few, have utilised the CDF. However, we must be mindful of the fact that if we do not have a physically active citizenry, productivity will not be enhanced. So, first and foremost, we need to promote wellness and ensure that our people are healthy. Even as we execute other programmes, it is important that we have multi-sports facilities in every constituency.

Madam Speaker, we are not suggesting that the entire K7 million is drawn in 2025. All these proposals have been costed. For example, a football pitch has been costed at around K1.3 million. What I am asking from hon. Members of Parliament is that as we rise, they should go back and influence their communities to allocate some funds to this project, not the entire K7 million. We can stagger the funds over four or five years, as long as we achieve our objectives. I think that it is important that we start. We can begin with the futsal facility or volleyball court or even a football pitch, but the key is that as long as we have a clear objective, we will be able to achieve it if we spread it out over the years.

Madam Speaker, for those who have concerns, I am also a Member of Parliament, and I know that we cannot draw the entire K7 million or K10 million all at once. For instance, we can allocate K1.3 million for a football pitch in 2026. Some hon. Members are concerned that they may not return after the next election. Those of us who are returning in 2026 are not troubled by such issues.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Madam Speaker, let me put it on record that the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is allotted into three parts. Number one is that 60 per cent of it goes to community projects. Number two, 20 per cent is allotted to secondary school and skills development bursaries. Number three, 20 per cent is allotted to loans and grants.

Madam Speaker, you cannot take money meant for loans and grants and use it to construct a stadium. Neither can you use money designated for skills development for community projects. This means we only have 60 per cent for community projects.

Madam Speaker, I will give a scenario of my constituency, Mpika Parliamentary Constituency, which has sixty-four polling stations and 1,200 villages. In all these villages, people want to see development through the CDF, yet, the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts is proposing to the House that we should allocate K9 million towards the construction of a stadium. Meanwhile, our people are traveling 9km to 30 km to reach the nearest health center.

Hon. Government Members interjected.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, did the hon. Minister send officers on the ground to assess the developmental needs of our people before coming up with those proposals? I agree that the proposals are progressive, but did the hon. Minister consider whether the resource envelope under CDF is anywhere near being feasible?

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, sometimes, we forget that hon. Ministers are also Members of Parliament.

Mr B Mpundu: Some of them.

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, in fact, I am a Member of Parliament for Kaputa, in case some hon. Members have forgotten. I represent more than seventeen wards. So, when someone talks about how large some constituencies are, I believe, I qualify to be among those with the largest constituencies. Maybe, that is why we are saying delimitation will help us.

Madam Speaker, I am not new to the issues raised by the hon. Member, but we should not mislead the nation. I do not know why, whenever a noble idea is being debated, some people deliberately want to bring in politics into the discussion or mislead the nation. I was very clear in my Ministerial Statement. I did not suggest that the entire K9 million should be spent in 2025. I said we can use part of it, whether K1.3 million, K2 million, or K3 million, any amount, as long as we start something.

Madam Speaker, who told Hon. Kapyanga that the sports facilities we are discussing are not part of community projects? He ably debated that some money within community projects is supposed to be spent.

I want to encourage him that from the community projects is where you can draw money. I will also give an example of Nyimba, Roan and even Bangweulu, where, before I could bring this statement, some progressive Members of Parliament came to me and said that they wanted to spend some of their CDF to construct the pitches that I have talked about –

Mr Nanjuwa: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkandu: Therefore, it is not just coming from the blues. It is something that some of the progressive hon. Members have already debated about. For me, I would want to encourage hon. Members to get something from the funds meant for community projects. After all, almost all hon. Members of Parliament who mean well always contribute to sport in their respective constituencies. Are they telling me that it is only when we get to campaigns that people can be looked at? No. We believe that talent is in every corner of the country, and these are the same people, some of whom are on your left, who, when we lose, as a country, always mock us, especially me.

Madam Speaker, you need to know that one of the ingredients or catalysts to having quality athletes is by first having quality infrastructure. We need to improve on sports infrastructure. Then, we will be able to say that in Mpika, we are having quality players, because they have good facilities somewhere where they are playing. What is wrong with having a very food facility in Mpika? Therefore, my brother, the hon. Member, should, please, help the people of Mpika by giving them a multi-sports facility so that we harness their potential.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Madam Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister mention the community sports fund that has been distributed to our constituencies. Could he shed more light as to why hon. Members of Parliament were excluded from this programme. This is because, in addition to our Constituency Development Fund (CDF), we could use part of this money to develop sports facilities in our constituencies.

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Member for Kaumbwe for that very important question. I will be very honest with the nation, through this House, that hon. Members of Parliament, indeed, have raised concerns. That is why I am appreciating the hon. Member for Kaumbwe for his concerns about the community sports fund. Community sport has been given K30 million, and this is shared among the districts. However, what has come to my attention is that the councils are not involving hon. Members of Parliament, as they execute this important programme. Thus, through this House, I want to state that hon. Members of Parliament are community leaders, first and foremost. Councilors are also community leaders. We also have what we call the District Sports Advisory Committees (DSACs). These are community leaders who are supposed to be involved as they execute these important programmes. I, therefore, want to direct the local authorities, because this money is coming from the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts, to let hon. Members of Parliament be involved, and to that effect, we also have guidelines now. I think that they behaved in the manner they did because guidelines did not reach them in time. What we are now doing is that from this session, we are going to write to all the local authorities so that they follow what is stipulated in the guidelines. The hon. Member for Kaumbwe is therefore, covered. We are going to make sure that even in Chilubi, the hon. Member of Parliament is involved so that some of the money can supplement their efforts and help buy jerseys and footballs, if that is the worry.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister of Youth, Sports and Arts, may I suggest that you liaise with the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development as you give directions to the council so that you avoid stepping on each other’s toes.

Mr E. Banda (Muchinga): Madam Speaker, I just want to ask the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts to tell the House and the people of Zambia how much money was allocated to each district council for sports activities for 24^th October. I hear that money was released and the councils were in receipt of it. However, some wards are saying they did not get the money, and you know our people, when they hear that money has been given out, they think that maybe, it is a big chunk. Sometimes, it is a very small amount that is received. As Member of Parliament, I have been receiving these questions and I think, this is an opportunity for me to ask the hon. Minister to tell us how much was released from his ministry to the local councils.

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, the budget for community sports is K30 million, and I believe that by the end of this year, the whole K30 million would have been disbursed. I know hon. Members of Parliament are very good at mathematics. Just divide 156 constituencies by K30 million, then you will be able to find out how much was given to each constituency.

Mr Mapani: It is 116 districts!

Mr Nkandu: I am sorry, 116 districts. Thank you very much hon. Member. You are really following. Divide K30 million by 116 districts and then, obviously, you will find how much was given to each council.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Sefulo (Mwandi): Madam Speaker, in his statement, one of the things that the hon. Minister mentioned was recognising our girls and the good works that they are doing. That is Kundananji and Barbara Banda. We are aware that soccer is a sport that has been predominantly for men, and we have seen girls who are doing very well today. However, just like in politics, when women do things that were predominantly done by men, they face many challenges. Examples can be given where women in politics, including here, and are insulted. We have seen that that is also being taken to the playing field where Barbara Banda has won the first British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) sports award, and the attacks against her are very disheartening as well as the discrimination that she has faced whilst being in another country where she might not be able to handle that pressure. As a ministry, what message are you sending to that woman who has done so well for herself even as she suffers discrimination on the international fora?

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, being the week when we commemorate Sixteen Days of Activism Against Gender-Based Violence, I think it is good that the hon. Member for Mwandi has raised that important issue. First and foremost, what we are doing is encouraging Barbara Banda. You know when you are succeeding in whatever you are doing, there are also other negativities that come in. As the hon. Member said, like in politics, obviously, you do not expect everyone to praise you. When I appeared on The Government Forum programme, I should also have taken advantage of that important session to encourage Her Honour the Vice-President and the President and everyone in the New Dawn Government. I would start from there that it is not feasible that satan will praise God, it will never happen. Satan will never praise God, even when you do very good things Satan will continue criticising you. Even as the New Dawn Administration, we have done a lot, but I believe that our colleagues on the left will continue criticising us despite the good things that we are doing. Therefore, Barbara Banda should also take a leaf from this. Even as she succeeds, there will be people out there who will be criticising her. The best we can do, as a country, is to continue encouraging and praying for her so that she does even more than what she is doing now. I think that for me, that is the most important thing. The Government, by having that equal pay that I talked about, has done what is supposed to be done. Once again, congratulations to Barbara Banda. We will continue encouraging her.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has appealed to hon. Members of Parliament to go and influence constituents to use the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to build stadia –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, sometimes, I wonder how sweet this break is. You always come back to the House late.

Laughter

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I was just reflecting on the fact that the hon. Minister had recommended to all hon. Members to go back to their constituencies and influence the people to choose stadia construction above other community projects.

Madam Speaker, I thought that the developmental thinking of leaders should be directed by the circumstances of the people and that appeared the other way round.

Madam Speaker, national development is informed by national planning. I have had the occasion to peruse the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP) from Section 1 to Section 12(3). I have not seen any outcomes which require the construction of sports facilities in all constituencies. Therefore, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister which development plan has informed this decision and where the public can also draw this information from.

Mr Chisopa: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Speaker: Before the hon. Minister responds to that question, there is an indication for a point of order, again, from the hon. Member for Mkushi South.

A point of order is raised.

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, I know you always refer to me as a person who does not like asking questions.

Laughter

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, I am very surprised today, because the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts came into this House and started distributing a Bill of Quantities (BoQ) and he is asking us to go and engage contractors to construct a stadium. The BoQ has even got figures. How transparent is this going to be if we decide to build these stadia?

Is the hon. Minister in order to distribute the BoQ with figures, when we have not even found the contractor to build the stadia?

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

I believe that when the hon. Minister was presenting his Ministerial Statement, he was referring to some numbers. I know that even for the building of the constituency offices, there is already a plan and a Bill of Quantities (BoQ) that has been attached. So, hon. Members who are interested can approach the hon. Minister and get the BoQ. It is indicative of what the expected amounts are going to be. So, the hon. Minister is in order.

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for coming to my rescue. I really appreciate. Some, hon. Members asked to look at it for transparency sake. We are a very transparent Government, and so, whatever we are doing, we can just easily give out to people to interrogate the BoQ and also look the plan.

Madam Speaker, coming to the question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Lunte who was talking about the national development plan, I think, I mentioned that the multi-sports facilities will support the Vision 2030. In the Vision 2030 is where there is promotion of health, and becoming a middle-income country. I also talked about wellness and I indicated that a physically-fit citizenry will contribute to productivity and productivity will be enhanced. That is what I said. So, if the hon. Member does not want to have a sports facility in his constituency – Sometimes, when it comes to some of these things, we also look at the people. We will go to Lunte and tell them that their hon. Member of Parliament does not want to have a sports facility in their constituency. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, we can visualise how they may react to that. So, the best we can do is help these young people. Today, we are talking about junkies, why? It is because an idle mind is the devil’s workshop. You are aware that the same Hon. Kafwaya’s Government was sharing sports facilities. Some of them were sold to churches and some others encroached on and turned into residential houses. So, today, we should not be surprised that we have many junkies. It is because of the failed Government.

So, it is important that when a good initiative is placed on the table, we support it.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, let me take this opportunity to thank the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts, who is popularly known as Akatuntulu, for the work he is doing.

Madam Speaker, these sports facilities, including the resources that the ministry is giving to the councils, do they produce reports on how, for example, they used the money which they were given? In some councils, politicians are using the money for campaigns and at times, for decampaigning the Government and saying that they, themselves, have bought that equipment, as individuals. What measures has the Government put in place to ensure that our people are not misinformed? They should be able to know that this money and everything is coming from the President of this country through the hon. Minister.

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, relevance of speech is a requirement for hon. Members as we tender discourse. I have a right, which you recognised, to ask a question for the hon. Minister to clarify my thoughts. However, the hon. Minister starts attacking me and my constituency. Did I indicate, anywhere in my supplementary question that we do not want a sports facility in Lunte?  Have we sold any sports facility in Lunte for the hon. Minister to start attacking me instead of responding to the question to clarify my thoughts? My question was clear. I just wanted to know where in the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP) do we have the outcomes to build sports facilities in all constituencies, but he went elsewhere. Is he in order to avoid answering my question and start imputing issues that I have no interest about? 

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling on this matter.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much, hon. Member.

Hon. Member for Lunte, you asked a question, and the hon. Minister has answered your question, clarifying where you can find the issues to do with sports. He said all the issues to do with that are in the Vision 2030. Maybe, he should have even gone further to say that the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) also dictate that. However, as he was doing that, he was just appealing to you and saying that if you are not interested in the sports complex, then do not pursue that programme. I think, he was just advising. If you misunderstood it to the extent that he was attacking you, then I do not know. However, from the context that the hon. Minster was speaking, I do not think that he was attacking you. So, the hon. Minister was in order.  He was emphasising that if you are not interested in the sports complex, you do not have to pursue it. If you are interested, then the hon. Minister is there to facilitate the process.  I think, that is all he was trying to say.

So, let us make progress. We do not have much time. So many hon. Members have indicated.

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chama South for that very interesting question.

Madam Speaker, I am very excited that the hon. Member for Chama South has raised this important issue. I remember vividly when we gave out sports equipment and jerseys to hon. Members of Parliament. In one constituency, which I will not mention, I found jerseys that were donated by the ministry branded as if they were bought by a certain hon. Member of Parliament.  I think, the hon. Member for Chama South is informed.

Madam Speaker, let me take advantage of this opportunity to say that hon. Members must declare whatever comes from the Government, facilitated by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia and Commander-In-Chief of the Armed Forces so that the people we are giving the sports equipment know where it is coming from. They should know that the equipment is coming from someone who loves the young people and understands their needs. He also loves sport because he knows that sport can help alleviate poverty and create jobs. So, it is no longer mere entertainment for us, as the New Dawn Administration. We are motivated by those two factors, first and foremost. So, I encourage hon. Members to motivate us by declaring to the constituents whenever the Government gives them something, and so that as they come back, they can even get more, However, if we hear that they went to shine by telling the constituents that they are the ones who made the donation, then they are misleading themselves and the constituents. So, please, hon. Members, declare what is coming from the Government for continuity so that we are also motivated to give even more.

Madam Speaker, let me talk about the measure. The measure is that we have District Sports Advisory Committees who should work closely with hon. Members of Parliament. We will be discussing with Hon. Nkombo for a circular or a memorandum to that effect. Further, I believe that a report should be generated so that we know how much money has been utilised, and if there have been some changes, then we need to know where this money is. Can it be brought back? I think, it is important to talk to the councils because, indeed, to some extent, they think that that is their money. This is Government money, so there is a need for them to declare it.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, the people of Zambia, specifically in Luena, are very excited to hear the good news about the construction if multi-sports facilities in all the districts. As I go to Luena, we will begin conversations about where the facilities will be located.

Madam Speaker, Zambia has made many strides in sports development since the New Dawn Administration came into power. However, as we participate in tournaments and various sporting activities at international level, one of the questions that the people of Zambia have asked many times is the lack of national identity in terms of colours. Sometimes, when Zambia is playing another nation and you are watching on Television (TV), you will have to wait before celebrating, otherwise, you will cheer the wrong team. That is because although we have what we know to be our colours, even when we are playing at home, we would be playing in alternative colours. Is the Government considering establishing a standard colour code for all our national teams and sportsmen so that when Samukonga is running and he is ahead of everybody else, we can see Zambia in the shirt that he is wearing? Are there any plans to establish such a colour code for the country?

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, indeed, I want to appreciate the hon. Member for thinking in the same lines as the ministry. I remember when we went to the United Kingdom (UK), before we could engage our new chief executive officer (CEO) of the National Sports Council of Zambia (NSCZ), that is one issue we had been talking about. People should not think that we are talking about a colour of a jersey that should be worn by clubs. I think that clubs have their own colours. I think, the hon. Member is referring to national teams. Indeed, we need to have a colour to be identified by, as a country. I have seen how our colleagues from Kenya and South Africa are always well dressed in their national colours whenever they leave their countries. So, indeed, as a country, we also need to go that route so that even whenever we leave the country, we will be recognised as Zambia.

Madam Speaker, I know someone is saying takwaba meaning there is nothing like that. That is how it is. We need to be identified by our own colours, as a country. So, we are making some strides to make sure that the NSCZ starts printing replicas so that as Zambia is playing, the Zambian fans also wear an identified colour that speaks to our national colours, as a country. That is in the pipeline.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you so much. Clearly, there is so much interest in this matter. I am tempted to call on more hon. Members, but we have a lot of work to do. So, please, bear with me. I know the hon. Member for Chipili is always the last one. I wanted to call on the hon. Member for Lundazi and then the hon. Member for Kalulushi, so you leave me with no option but to move to the next item.

_______

MOTION

SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES NO. 2 OF 2024

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now resolve into Committee of supply to consider Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure No. 2 of 2024.

Madam, I am bearer of a message for –

Madam Speaker: You are just moving the Motion. Maybe, you can stop there.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, in accordance with Article 203 of the Constitution, the hon. Minister responsible for finance shall, where the amount appropriated in an Appropriation Act is insufficient to meet expenditure in that financial year, lay before the National Assembly for approval, a Supplementary Estimate of Expenditure.

Madam, by virtue of the authority conveyed in the Article of the Constitution quoted above, I now present the Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure No. 2 of 2024.

Allow me, therefore, Madam Speaker, to bring out the notable proposed expenditure allocations contained in this Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure. Of this amount, K6.3 billion or 53 per cent of the Supplementary Budget has been proposed to meet the cost of domestic debt service. You may wish to note that domestic debt service for the Financial Year 2024 was budgeted at K32.9 billion. The outturn is now projected to reach K38 billion by end December 2024. This higher outturn is mainly due to some degree of shift in the assumptions on which the projections for debt servicing were based. The initial projection for debt service in 2024 was done over a year ago, sometime before September 2023. A number of market fundamentals that were assumed at that time have significantly shifted since then, leading to a different figure which has now crystallized around K38 billion by the end of the year. These market fundamentals have been affected by the dynamism of debt uptake as well as the irregular and unforeseen patterns that have taken place in the domestic credit market during the course of the year. Further, 42 per cent or K4.9 billion has been allocated to loans and investments for payment of domestic arrears.

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to know note that the Government had devised the domestic areas dismantling strategy to address the growing stock of arrears. However, the clearance of arrears has been challenging due to the constrained resources envelope and poor cashflow position in view of the current debt burden. It is for this purpose that an allocation of K4.9 billion is being proposed to settle some outstanding bills as well as undertake debt straps with the Zambia Telecommunications Company Limited (Zamtel) and Ndola Energy Company Limited.

Madam Speaker, due to the exchange rate loses, 2.4 per cent or K277 million of this supplementary budget will be channeled towards the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation to meet the cost of overseas allowances to missions abroad. You may wish to note that missions abroad receive their enumerations in United States Dollars and owing to exchange rate loses experienced during the calendar year, the initial budgeted figure which was pegged at K19 to US$1 has been depleted hence the proposal for an additional appropriation to meet the expenditure requirement.

Madam Speaker, the Supplementary Budget includes some donor support of 1.4 per cent of K162.6 million from the World Bank to the Smart Zambia Institute. The funds are meant for actualising the Digital Zambia Acceleration Project that aims to expand internet access, enhance digitally enabled services and strengthen the country’s digital infrastructure.

In addition, Madam Speaker, the Supplementary Budget will be supported by an additional 1.2 per cent or K150 million coming in as Skills Development Levy. These funds which are over and above the budgeted collection will be channelled towards technical education and entrepreneurship training in the TEVET institutions.

Lastly, Madam Speaker, K8.1 million of these Supplementary Estimates are carry-over funds or unspent balances from the 2023 Financial Year.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Madam Speaker: I notice that there are five hon. Members from the Patriotic Front (PF) who want to debate. Please, as we debate, let us be precise and not repeat what our colleagues have already stated.

We start with the hon. Member for Lunte.

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister requests the House to –

Madam Speaker: Sorry, hon. Member for Lunte. I think, I have skipped the, …

Mr Kafwaya: The chairman.

Madam Speaker: … chairperson. I call upon the chairperson of the Expanded Budget Committee.

Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Madam Speaker, Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure No. 2 of 2024 were presented to the National Assembly for approval in accordance with Article 203(2) of the Constitution of Zambia, as amended in 2016. Pursuant to Standing Order No. 204(4) (a), the Expanded Planning and Budgeting Committee was tasked to examine the Supplementary Estimates.

Madam Speaker, the House will recall that in addition to the Appropriation Act No. 29 of 2023 which authorised expenditure not exceeding K177.9 billion in 2024, the National Assembly approved Supplementary Budget Estimates No. 1 of 2024 in July this year to respond to the effects of the drought and to facilitate external debt service and dismantle arrears among other things.

However, Madam Speaker, due to the need to facilitate domestic debt service payments, dismantling of arrears for goods and services and also to facilitate overseas allowances in various missions abroad, among other things, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is proposing a further K11.8 billion in the Supplementary Estimates before the House. The funding for the Supplementary Budget will primarily come from savings declared within ministries, provinces and spending agencies (MPSA), as well as additional revenues generated from Value Added Tax (VAT) over collections and debt swap arrangements, which collectively account for about 95 per cent of the total funding. The remaining portion will be sourced from carry-overs from the 2023 Financial Year and also contributions from co-operating partners, to be specific, the World Bank.

It should be noted also, Madam Speaker, that no debt has been included, reflecting the Government’s commitment to remaining on course of the debt sustainability objective.

Madam Speaker, I wish to state that the Committee supports the Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure No. 2 of 2024. The Committee acknowledges that the proposed allocation towards the dismantling of arrears and servicing domestic debt is a strategic intervention that will directly help address liquidity constraints in the economy and also enhance investor confidence. While supporting the Supplementary Estimates, the Committee has observed some issues which require the Government’s attention.

Madam Speaker, the Committee observes that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning has not provided details of the implications of the Supplementary Estimates on the Budget Output targets as required under Section 45(3) of the National Planning and Budgeting Act of 2020. Without this critical information, the Committee was unable to assess the impact of budget cuts on public institutions vis-à-vis output targets, undermining the principle of output-based budgeting.

Madam Speaker, whilst recognising the urgency of addressing debt and arrears, the Committee urges the ministry to fully comply with the provisions of the National Planning and Budgeting Act in future by ensuring output adjustments are reported. This will enable the legislature to perform its oversight function effectively.

Further, Madam Speaker, the Committee notes that a significant portion of the declared savings has been sourced from heads of expenditure affected partly by delays in projects and programme implementation, which may further postpone key project milestones and critical budget outputs. The Committee, therefore, urges the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to establish mechanisms to enhance the absorption capacity of ministries, provinces and spending agencies to prevent delays in executing projects and programs.

Finally, Madam Speaker, the Committee notes with concern that similarly to the previous Supplementary allocation, the allocation to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs International Co-operation is on account of the depreciation of the Zambian Kwacha against the United States Dollar. Given the re-occurrence of this, the Committee strongly recommends that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning comes up with a robust exchange rate risk management framework that will mitigate budget lines sensitive to the exchange rate fluctuations, including external debt service.

As I conclude, Madam Speaker, I wish, once again, to reiterate the Committee's support for Supplementary Estimates No. 2 of 2024. Allow me to place on record the Committee’s gratitude to the witnesses who appeared before it for the invaluable input provided in the exercise.

Madam Speaker, gratitude is also extended to you and the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the support rendered to the Committee during our sitting.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, let me also support the hon. Minister so that he can be given the K11.8 billion which he requires to supplement his Budget.

Madam Speaker, in 2023, this Assembly approved a K177.9 billion National Budget for 2024. Later, the hon. Minister came to the House and requested for K41.9 billion. He is back again, for the same year 2024, to request for K11.8 billion.

Madam Speaker, speaking objectively, I would have said there is no need to support the hon. Minister because as he was presenting the K177.9 billion Budget, he needed to know that he would need more money. The Government needed to have better projections; that the US Dollar was going to appreciate against the Zambian Kwacha from K18 to K28, but the hon. Minister did not know. Now, he knows. This is why he wants more money from the Zambian people. So, we will support him.

However, Madam Speaker, I just want to make one comment. The K41.9 billion Supplementary Budget had a proposed figure of K17 billion which the hon. Minister called savings. This particular Supplementary Estimates has another figure of K8 billion, which he is calling savings. When you put those two figures together, it gives you K25 billion. That K25 billion is coming from the initial Budget of K177.9 billion. How can the Government plan activities for the nation to a tune of K25 billion and fail to implement them, yet it is always saying that it is meticulous, always plans properly and that its projections are good? Hon. Minister, it is impossible for a serious Government to plan activities to a tune of K25 billion and fail to implement them.

Mr Mposha: Question!

Mr Kafwaya: That is what the UPND Government has done. I would like to urge the hon. Minister to make better projections going into the future. I am hoping that the K217,105,378,661 billion which the hon. Minister has proposed for 2025 has embedded proper projections. Not too long ago, we were debating statistics, and some bad words were spoken across the Floor. These are the statistics we talk about. This is the importance of using proper mathematics when coming up with significant national programmes.

 Madam, you may say that it is normal. Let the hon. Minister bring and if he wishes to bring another Supplementary Budget, we are going to support it. However, the point is to come up with this paper, there are process costs. Coming up with this paper is like coming up with those Bills which were withdrawn yesterday. So, there are process costs from the Ministry of Justice, at the Cabinet, Government Printers and when you bring them in the Assembly Chamber, there are also costs. These costs can help …

Mr Kakubo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Lunte!

There is an indication for a point of order from the hon. Member for Kapiri Mposhi. What is your point of order, hon. Member?

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point order pursuant to Standing Order No. 71. I am not a member of the Expanded Planning and Budget Committee, while Hon. Kafwaya is. However, the manner in which he is debating is basically going against the resolutions of his own Committee. Is the hon. Member in order to debate in the manner he is debating?

I seek your ruling, Madam.

Madam Speaker:  Actually, I was not aware that the hon. Member is a member of the Expended Planning and Budget Committee. So, since he is –

Hon. Opposition Members: He is supporting the Budget.

Madam Speaker: No, even if he is supporting the Budget, he is not supposed to debate because he had an opportunity to discuss this issue when the Committee was meeting. So, we give the opportunity to hon. Members who are not part and parcel of the Expanded Panning and Budget Committee. So, hon. Member, please, you should have indicated that you are a member of Expended Planning and Budget Committee. So, in that case then, we will skip you and we will go to the next debater. I will now call upon the hon. Member for Mpika to debate.

Hon. Members, be reminded that we do not have enough time.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order hon. Members!

Now, I will have to reduce the time so that we allow all the hon. Members who have indicated. I know you are interested in debating. Maybe, what we can do is to give each hon. Members four minutes to debate otherwise, I will just call on two more hon. Members and then we proceed. Is the four minutes okay?

Hon. Oppositions Members: We have suspended certain Standing Orders.

Madam Speaker: Even if we have suspended certain Standing Orders, there is still more work to be done. I am sure the hon. Members are looking forward to the meeting with the hon. Minister of Technology and Science. There is a meeting coming up at about 1500 hours. So, we do not have the whole day. We have suspended the Standing Orders, but it does not mean that we have to waste time. So, I will give four minutes to the hon. Member for Mpika.

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Madam Speaker, I want to thank you for the opportunity.

Madam Speaker, the Supplementary Budget of K11,765,526,485 has come at a time when farmers are sharing farming inputs in small units.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, I would have expected the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to have considered allocating funds to the Ministry of Agriculture to enable it to procure more farming inputs so that farmers in Mukungule, Kasenga, Chilonga, Musakanya and Chibesonde could have more farming inputs and made the nation food-secure in the next harvest. However, we have seen an allocation to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation for Personal Emoluments of members of staff in the missions abroad amounting to K276,777,349. The reason is that those people are paid in US Dollars while we have seen the Kwacha sky-rocketing against the US Dollar at K28, and this could have been avoided.

Madam Speaker, if the Government did not give tax holidays to the mines, it would have been getting a lot of dollars, which would have strengthened our Kwacha, and the K276 million would have been allocated to other areas of need. However, the Auditor-General’s Report of 2023 has revealed that 259 mining companies did not file for mineral royalties, yet they exported minerals worth K14 billion. That is very shocking. At a time when we need our currency to perform better from the earnings from the mines, we are being told that actually, we are having challenges collecting taxes.

Madam Speaker, the other issue which has contributed to the poor performance of our Kwacha is illicit financial flaws, as cited in the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC) Report,  that from January to April 2024 US$3 billion was fraudulently externalised. The conversion between the Kwacha and United States of America Dollar is what is making our Kwacha very weak. There is a need, therefore, to strengthen the financial systems to ensure that we do not lose monies to corruption and other related scandals.

Madam Speaker, as I support this budgetary allocation, I also would have expected the hon. Minister to allocate funds towards infrastructure unlike just allocating all the funds towards consumption. We have bad township roads in Mpika, Nakonde, Chinsali and Isoka. So, if money could be allocated towards infrastructure, particularly township roads, Muchinga could benefited.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, I want to place it on record that I support the second Supplementary Budget in a row.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, as we debate, let us stick to the report. The report will assist you in debating. Further, this is a Supplementary Budget to cover us until the end of this year. So, hon. Member for Mpika, when you are talking about the budget for roads, that is covered in the 2025 Budget. So, please, let us debate within context.

Mr Fube (Chilubi) Madam Speaker, firstly, I would like to indicate that the Budget is connected to the law, which is the Constitution and other subsidiary laws. Apart from that, it is also connected to a policy framework, and I have in mind the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP), which has pillars which we are supposed to respond to.

Madam Speaker, my belief is that whenever we are sharing and distributing resources, and in accordance with the Constitution, in Article 63, we are supposed to respond to the needs of the people. So, even when we are endorsing some of the factors, the needs of the people are supposed to be generated from the Government systems, statistics and many other factors.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning would have done us well to if he just came with the 2024 Budget up to K331 because as the House may have noted, this is the second Supplementary Budget. We had the one for K177 billion, then we had the one for K41 billion and now we have the K11 billion one. With regards to such projections, I think that we would have expected better, especially from a methodical Government.

Madam Speaker, we also have the affinity of not following procedure and law. According to the National Planning and Budgeting Act No. 1, Section 45(3) of 2020, somehow, we have not followed the laid down procedures of this particular Section, yet we are a law-making body that wants to pass this Supplementary Budget and be comfortable with it.

Madam Speaker, as far as the people of Chilubi support this Supplementary Budget out of patriotism, they would like to indicate that not following things in that manner is in bad taste.

Madam Speaker, this Supplementary Budget is also supposed to respond to output targets. The hon. Minister has indicated that there is a carryover from 2023. If you look at the K41 billion Supplementary Budget, you will see that there was also a carryover. So, this means that our outputs are not properly checked. If we can have carryovers like the one in issue right now, which has just contributed up to maybe 0.1 per cent, but we are talking about mopping the ministries and provinces up to 74 per cent, it means that we are not doing things the right way. Therefore, given that scenario, we need to pull up our socks.

Madam Speaker, the people of Chilubi would like to end on the note of the foreign missions as it may be, especially that this particular element is contributing to that Vote. We are supporting the allocation to foreign missions because it is a shame that we should even have arrears. I do not know how our people would survive in foreign countries. I think, it is out of that the people of Chilubi have indicated that they can only support this Supplementary Budget. Otherwise, the procedure, in terms of following the law and many factors are not in place.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, may I thank you, once again for the privilege to make a few comments on the Supplementary Budget that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has requested this august House to support.

Madam Speaker, my comments will be limited to three issues. The first one, and for the attention of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, is that when the chairperson of the Committee presented his report, he talked about the outcomes, what is supposed to be achieved; the clarity of thought in the information that is supposed to be provided, what will be the outcomes of some of these activities. However, the chairperson of the Committee has raised a very serious concern about the expected outcomes. The hon. Minister wants extra money, but the outcomes are supposed to be part of this report because it is a requirement by law.

Madam Speaker, the law demands that if you are bringing a Supplementary Budget, you must be able to provide certain information, which unfortunately, in this report, is missing. I want to request the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, as he responds, that this is a public issue and it is important that this information is provided to members of the public.

Madam Speaker, secondly, the report indicates that the Government has savings. Now, from my little experience, when you come up with a National Budget, it is a plan, and that should tell you what you are going to spend the money on. If it is Constituency Development Fund (CDF), the plan will tell you that this money will go towards this CDF project. If it is a particular sector that is supposed to take that money that is in the National Budget, the budget should tell you.

Madam Speaker, today, we are being told that we have savings and that is where I have a concern. If we have savings and the hon. Minister is describing them as money that has been saved, my concern is that we might be calling them savings, yet it is delayed expenditure or money that has not been saved or even an activity that should have demanded that expenditure is implemented. So, we might be calling some activities as savings when they are not. I hope that as he responds, he will be able to confirm that, indeed, these are savings.

Madam Speaker, a saving means that you budgeted K10 million and you only spend K9 million so meaning you only save K1 million. So, I hope that as the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning responds, he will need to give us the comfort that, indeed, we are discussing savings because we might just be discussing money that we should have spent on an activity, but because of the usual bureaucracies and delayed expenditure, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning did not release the money on time, and so, we are also spending late. So, we might be calling these activities savings, yet they are not savings. However, I believe when the hon. Minister responds, he will be able to give us that assurance.

Madam Speaker, lastly, unfortunately, I have forty-six seconds remaining, the energy sector has a priority. The budgeting is about targeting priorities. I was expecting that with the energy crisis that we have witnessed this year, the money he is calling savings, with the extra money that the Government has collected, there should have been one programme dealing with the energy crisis. Unfortunately, this Supplementary Budget has not provided for a provision to deal with the energy crisis. Apart from relying on the private sector, the Government should have provided leadership by allocating some of these extra funds that it has towards the energy challenges.

Madam Speaker, unfortunately, I do not have adequate time, but the people of Kamfinsa support the Supplementary Budget. 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, time constraint is a challenge.

Madam Speaker, I have no choice but to should support this second Supplementary Budget coming in the same fiscal year.

Madam Speaker, on the so-called savings, and this is a very serious concern we have, firstly, I want to say that we are a law-making institution, and as such, we must strive to ensure that the laws that we make are adhered to. The concerns that the Committee has highlighted here, which point to the breach of Section 45(3) of the Planning and Budgeting Act, which guides the works that we are doing now must not be encouraged. As legislators, we have a responsibility to caution the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to adhere to the laws that we have made, through this institution. I will not refer to these as savings, as they are being referred to, but I will go with the Committee’s description. These are Budget cuts, and the Committee was not able to understand their implications, which account for 74.6 per cent.

Madam Speaker, what this entails is that the projections that were made for expenditure of our provinces were not correct. If they were not correct, how sure are we that the estimates that we have worked on for the next fiscal year are correct? This is the challenge we have.

Madam Speaker, if the hon. Minister cannot demonstrate the performance of these institutions where we have cut money, what decisions are we making, as Parliament? The only institution that has shown genuine allocations is the SMART Zambia Institution, under Vote 39, where it is stated that there was money from donors. The rest are cuts.

Madam Speaker, because of the time being short, I will give a classic example. We appreciate something allocated to this institution which is doing very important work in this Supplementary Budget. We are now racing against time and the budget of this institution. It gives you an idea of what could be obtaining elsewhere. This is because here, we had Committees coming back and saying they could not do the work because of the tight calendar, which tight calendar is also tied to the budget they have. They have serious constraints and limitations. So, priorities must be set out.

Madam Speaker, my hon. Colleague was talking about agriculture. Yes, we can understand because just today, we have seen screaming headlines that the Government is failing to pay for maize which is supposed to come from Tanzania. We understand the constraints because the exchange rate of the US Dollar is going up every other time.

Madam Speaker, if our colleagues did not factor this in when they were making these projections, here we are sending another extra money to the missions abroad which we did in the previous Supplementary Budget. 

Madam Speaker, these are things we are very concerned about. We need to be clear and sure of what we are doing in order for us to appreciate the work that the hon. Minister is requesting us to do. We have no objections. However, this institution must also be prioritised so that it can discharge its functions and help the hon. Minister to perform his accountability and oversight functions that he is required to perform. Otherwise, what is going on, leaves much to be desired.

I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. From the outset, let me indicate that the people of Luena are, indeed, in support of this Supplementary Budget. In doing so, we would like to indicate that an insinuation is being made to the effect that there is something wrong with having a Supplementary Budget. As a matter of fact, Supplementary Budgets are a further demonstration of Budget credibility and adherence to the rule of law, …

Hon. Members: Question!

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Anakoka: … including fiscal discipline.

Madam Speaker, unlike in the past, where we used to hear statements such as, “it is Government’s money, it does not matter whether it is in the left pocket or the right pocket, you can always pick it and put it in another pocket”, for Governance issues, you have to do so through the law and hence the Supplementary Budget. It is, indeed, appreciated. Even if we were to have six Supplementary Budgets as a result of the need to do so, it would be in accordance with the law. So, there is nothing strange and nothing wrong about it.

Madam Speaker, it is also important to note that for all the things we would wish to have in this Supplementary Budget, out of this K11.8 billion Supplementary Budget number two, K11 billion is going to debt servicing. Where is this debt coming from? K6.2 billion is for domestic debt servicing, K4.8 billion-loans that were accumulated without a plan on how to pay them back. Can you imagine what we would have done with this K11.8 billion if we were not so saddled with this unsustainable debt?

Mr Kangombe: Left by hon. Kampyongo and company.

Mr Anakoka: We thank the Government because it, in fact, managed to secure debt restructuring such that we are able to have a bit of this money; just under K800 million available as real additional expenditure on various budget lines. So, the Supplementary Budget should be understood in that context.

The crises that we are facing as a result of under-investment in some of the sectors in the past can directly be linked to the abuse and the lack of accountability in the way that the loans that were accumulated at high cost were utilised. At this stage, Madam Speaker, the best we can all do is actually to impress it upon our people and appreciate the importance of this fiscal discipline that this Government has brought into place.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, we appreciate the money that is being spent on debt servicing because this is going to enhance the local circulation of money in the economy. It is extremely important that all the entities that have provided services and goods to the Government be paid in order for our people’s livelihoods to be improved.

Madam Speaker, due to the constraint of time, I would like to say we support this Supplementary Budget, as the people of Luena.

With these few words, thank you very much for the opportunity to debate.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kafwaya: rose.

Mr Kangombe: Mr Kafwaya sit down.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

I prefer that there is flow in the debate. When hon. Members insist on raising points of order, that disrupts the flow. Please, we need to make progress. There were three indications. The first one was the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu who wanted to raise a point of order. What is the point of order? That will be the last point of order.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 71. You guided here, that there is a report and we have the Supplementary Estimates here. I think, the debate we have had is to the effect that what seems to be servings, are described by our own Committee as Budget cuts and that we have laboured to demonstrate. I do not know where the hon. Colleague who just finished debating got it in his mind that there was an insinuation from the previous debates that we had a problem with the Supplementary Estimates. Was he in order to only focus on the debt contracted during our time?

We can account, Madam Speaker, …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: …without focusing on the debt which is much more contracted now. That aside, was he in order to insinuate that here, we were not speaking to the report which is on the Floor? You saw me referring to the pages of the report from the Expanded Planning and Budgeting Committee.

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Question!

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

When the hon. Members on my left were debating, they were saying that it was improper for the Government to keep on bringing Budget Estimates. This is, I think, the third Supplementary Budget that has been brought. I think that is the position that the hon. Member for Luena was responding to or reacting to. That is his point of view, reacting to what the hon. Members on my left were saying. Let us have a flow of the debate so that we conclude and go to the next item. So, the hon. Member for Luena was in order.

Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

The people of Mwinilunga would want to add their voice to the debate on the Supplementary Budget that the hon. Minister of Finance has brought before this House to the tune of K11.8 billion.  I want to say that the Supplementary Budget is actually provided for in our laws in this country. Therefore, I think that we need to support the hon. Minister. This comes about when you have windfalls, including Budget cuts anywhere and you want to direct those revenues to expenditures that are found to be necessary. I do not think there is a problem and it is not a matter of debate, in my view.

I want to commend the hon. Minister for the fact that this Supplementary Budget is not being financed by borrowing. We know from our experience what borrowing has caused to this economy, in fact, what reckless borrowing has caused to this economy. We have over 40 per cent of our budgeted revenues going to finance the debt, and this is what has caused a lot of problems in our economy, including the cost of living that our colleagues on your left are complaining about forgetting that they were the causers because they over-borrowed. Whatever effects that the current Government is making, most of those revenues are going to debt repayment.

Madam Speaker, I also want to commend the hon. Minister for releasing resources to pay domestic traders. I think, it is very good to support our people and this is helping the economy to thrive. In the past, I think that the local traders were ignored and that created problems. I also want to thank the hon. Minister for taking some resources to drought relief programmes.

Madam Speaker, our people in the rural areas are quite happy with these initiatives that the Government has undertaken to help cushion the vagaries of drought that this country has faced this year, and we just hope that God will be gracious to Zambia so that we do not face another calamity of drought. Already, it is not looking good in Mwinilunga and we have gone for a week without rainfall. Yes of course, I mean, we are not used to that but, we have that challenge.

Madam Speaker, I want to really thank you that our colleagues on the left must know that some of the challenges we are going through are those that they left behind. So, let us work together and support one another because we only have one Zambia.

Eng. Mabenga rose.

Mr Kampyongo: Order!

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Mulobezi!

Are you debating? What is happening there?

Laughter

Eng. Mabenga left the Assembly Chamber.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, I was just counselling my colleagues that we have one economy.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: According to my assessment, the hon. Member for Mwinilunga was the last one. Hon. Member for Mbabala, yours was a late indication, which I had not planned for. I will give you one minute.

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, thank you. It is important to give the good people of Mbabala an opportunity to add their voice to this debate and support this very important Supplementary Budget. We see that a big chunk of this money is going to service debts, which were left by the previous regime. However, the money which is important to us is the drought relief fund because this is very crucial for the lives of the people of Mbabala. As you may know, we are one of the districts faced with huge drought challenges, and as such, everything is tough this time around. However, we know that this is a natural calamity which was not planned by any human being and so, as the people of Mbabala, we support this Supplementary Budget as it will offer relief.

Madam Speaker, the New Dawn (UPND) Government is equal to the task of taking care of its people. We want to assure the citizens that we are taking care of the situation, being a natural calamity, which has not been planned by any human being. What was planned by human beings is the debt contracting which left this country in the problems which we are facing today. Therefore, we want to urge those who are always talking to respect that they caused this big problem and we will continue talking about the devil.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisopa interjected.

Madam Speaker: So, you see why I gave you one minute? All those issues have already been debated on. Hon. Member for Mkushi South, please, mind what you say as you are seated there. Otherwise, this is a time of goodwill. It is Christmas time, and I do not want you to go out and spend the rest of Christmas outside. Be warned, hon. Member for Mkushi South.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I thank you and I wish to thank the honourable chairperson of the Expanded Planning and Budgeting Committee for the work that his Committee has done.  

Madam Speaker, in view of the recommendations of the Committee, I wish to inform this House that the ministry will continue to adhere to all legal provisions as guided by the National Planning and Budgeting Act of 2020. With regard to the output targets, given the multiplicity of Government programmes across the ministries, provinces and agencies, it is not easy to pinpoint or administer the level at which targets will be affected.

Madam Speaker, however in addressing the concerns of your Committee, a report will be availed in the course of next week indicating the revised output targets. With regard to adopting a robust risk management framework towards budget lines sensitivity to exchange rate volatility, I wish to inform this House that the Treasury does undertake rigorous forecasting and testing of scenarios when formulating the Budget.

Madam Speaker, these efforts have not been spared by the negative economic growth experienced in the calendar year. It remains the Government’s desire and obligation to achieve economic stability as well as build a strong Kwacha to reduce the pressures on our Budget.

Madam Speaker, with regard to improving the Budget prioritisation, I wish to inform that in spite of the fiscal challenges brought about by the drought, the Government has endeavoured to safeguard social protection programmes and scaled down on capital intensive expenditures. In dealing with the absorption capacity of the Government ministries, provinces and agencies, institutions have been implored to utilise or expend funds in the shortest possible time.

Madam Speaker, allow me to respond to one or two of the comments made by some colleagues. One Colleague said that had we not given tax holidays, there would have been no need for a Supplementary Budget.”

Madam Speaker, I would like to hear from the hon. Member if he is still here, which mine has been given a tax holiday, because as far as we know, there is no mine that has been given a tax holiday. All that was done was to align the taxes of Zambia together with the taxes of other countries and this was done to forestall what was observed over the years under the previous Government where mines were closing, the productions were reduced and the mining companies were leaving the country. With that correction, we are absolutely sure that instead of expecting tax revenues to be going down because investors are leaving, we are very confident that in the next few years, revenues from the mining sector will be getting higher and higher because of the investments that are being done in the country.

Madam Speaker, on the illicit financing that we have spoken about, it is important to realise that what we are observing now is actually a situation whereby the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC) which gives these reports has the freedom to publish its results without any consequences on the board or management of the institution. In the past, each time the FIC provided these reports, there would be consequences. We know people who lost their jobs from the board to the management, but today, they are free to tell the nation exactly what is happening in the financial world, and this Government has not remained mute but it has taken steps to stem the outflows.

Madam Speaker, I believe we have made progress. With that, I want to thank all the hon. Members for supporting the Supplementary Expenditure.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Sadly, all the hon. Members from the left who were debating, … 

Mr Anakoka: Only Kampyongo is serious.

Madam Speaker: ... have left, except for the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, yet, when they were debating, they wanted to debate for a longer time claiming that we have suspended the Standing Orders. Now they are not here to listen to the debate.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM SPEAKER

LUNCH ARRANGEMENTS

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I have an announcement to make. I wish to inform the House that the following arrangements have been made for lunch:

1. lunch break will be from 1300 hours to 1415 hours. The House will resume sitting at 1430 hours. Hon. Members will have their lunch in the restaurant here, at Parliament Buildings. Members of staff and ministry officials will have their lunch at the Members’ Motel; and

1. transport to the Members’ Motel for staff and ministry officials will be available at the foyer of the main entrance of Parliament Buildings.

May I urge all the hon. Members to be punctual, and I request the Party Whips to ensure that a quorum is formed at 1430 hours. For those hon. Members not in the House, there is no lunch for you.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: That is on a lighter note.

I thank you.

_______

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES NO. 2 OF 2024

VOTE 03 – (National Assembly – K1,510,684)

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mwiimbu, SC.): Madam Chairperson, I beg to move that K1,510,684 be approved.

The Chairperson: By practice, the House does not discuss its own budget. Therefore, I will, right away, put the question.

Vote 03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 17 – (Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation – K276,777,349)

Mr Mwiimbu, SC. (on behalf of the Minister of Justice (Mr Haimbe)): Madam Chairperson, I beg to move that K276,777,349 be approved in respect of Vote 17 – Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation as part of the Supplementary Estimates No. 2 of 2024.

The Chairperson, I thank you.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): The Chairperson, there is a proposal to allocate a sum of K276,777,349 in addition to the K418,680,000 in the previous Supplementary Budget. May I know from the ministry whether this additional final sum will be able to meet all outstanding arrears owed to our members of staff in foreign missions.

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: The Chairperson, this particular supplementary budget is intended to cover some of the outstanding obligations. It will not be able to clear all outstanding arrears as it is obtaining in all Government institutions.

I thank you, The Chairperson.

Vote 17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 21 – (Loans and Investments – Ministry of Finance and National Planning – K4,888,046,871)

Dr Musokotwane: The Chairperson, I beg to move that K4,888,046,871 be approved in respect of Vote 21 – Loans and Investments-Ministry of Finance and National Planning, as part of the Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure for the year 2024.

The Chairperson, I thank you.

Vote 21 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 37– (Ministry of Finance and National Planning – K6,616,945)

Dr Musokotwane: The Chairperson, I beg to move that K6,616,945 be approved in respect of Vote 37 – Ministry of Finance and National Planning as part of the Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure No. 2 of 2024.

I thank you, Madam.

Vote 37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 39 – (The SMART Zambia Institute – K162,600,000)

Mr Mwiimbu, SC. (on behalf of the Vice-President): The Chairperson, I beg to move that K162, 600, 000 be approved in respect of Vote 39 – The Smart Zambia Institute as part of the Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure No. 2 of 2024.

Mr Kampyongo: The Chairperson, there is a proposal to approve a total sum of K162,600, 000 for the SMART Zambia Institute.

The Chairperson, how much has been saved from the SMART Zambia Institute from the Government’s allocation in the fiscal year 2024? We are told that this money came from the World Bank. How much were the savings from the actual estimates?

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: The Chairperson, there are no savings that are accruing. It is important to note that the SMART Zambia Institute is rolling out a number of projects under various Heads with the support of the World Bank. This is a new project which is being financed by the World Bank hence our coming to the House to make it part of the Estimates of Expenditure. Otherwise, this support from the World Bank is meant to include what we have already been doing.

I thank you, The Chairperson.

Vote 39 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 66 – (The Ministry of Technology and Science – K150,000,000)

The Minister of Technology and Science (Mr Mutati): The Chairperson, I beg to move that K150,000,000 be approved in respect of Vote 66 – Ministry of Technology and Science as part of the Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure No. 2 of 2025.

The Chairperson: It is 2024.

Mr Mutati: Yes, 2024.

Mr Kampyongo: The Chairperson, I would like to know what the hon. Minister meant when he said that he would allocate this Supplementary Estimate for skills development. What sort of skills are these?

Mr Mutati: The Chairperson, the skills range from mechanical, electrical, bricklaying and many others.

I thank you, Madam.

Vote 66 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 99 – (The Constitutional and Statutory Expenditure – K6,279,974,636)

Dr Musokotwane: The Chairperson, I beg to move that K6,279,974,636 be approved in respect of Vote 99 – Constitutional and Statutory Expenditure as part of the Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure No. 2 of 2024.

Vote 99 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

_______

HOUSE RESUMED

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

Supplementary Estimates No. 2 of 2024 reported approved.

Report adopted.

Question put and agreed to and Madam Speaker appointed the Minister of Finance and National Planning to be a committee of one to bring in the necessary Bill to give effect now.

_______

BILL

FIRST READING

THE SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION BILL NO. 2 OF 2024

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Supplementary Appropriation, 2024 Bill No. 34 of 2024.

SECOND READING

THE SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION (NO. 2 BILL), NO. 34 OF 2024

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr. Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, following approval of the Supplementary Estimates No. 2 of 2024 that will provide additional resources with which to carry out essential services by the Government during the financial year ending on 31^st December, 2024, I now have to return to this Chamber with the necessary legislation to give effect to the resolution of the House.

Madam Speaker, the Bill therefore, is intended to authorise Supplementary Expenditure from the consolidated fund not exceeding, in the aggregate, K11,765,526,485.00

Madam Speaker, the Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure No. 2 of 2024, has been thoroughly debated in this House, and I do not expect it to attract another debate and accordingly, I beg to move.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, thou shall not mislead me.

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: The chairperson!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, there is no provision for a chairperson. This matter did not go to the Committee. Therefore, on what will the chairperson come and report?

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak on this money Bill. It comes back to what I was debating earlier. The whole essence of us passing legislation for expenditure is to ensure that the spendings are done in accordance with the Act. I did emphasise that we should always encourage the Ministry of Finance and National Planning that the concern which was raised by the Committee, of ensuring that Section 45(3) of the Planning and Budget Act is not continuously breached. This is the second Act of the Supplementary Expenditure we are passing. It is provided for, but, all we are asking is that we hope that the way we have allocated the money and after approval, we will not come and hear that there were other shortcomings. I was explaining the challenges that this institution has been facing. Yes, we do not debate this institution, but, it is important to point it out because there will be no one who will point out the constraints that the institution is facing, which are now affecting its outputs.

Madam Speaker, I want to urge the hon. Minister that as he is prioritising his expenditure, he should appreciate that this institution plays a very key role in the management of the nation.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I acknowledge the support of the House.

I thank you, Madam.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

Committee stage now.

_______

HOUSE IN COMMITTEE

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

THE SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION (NO. 2) BILL NO. 34 OF 2024

Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Fourth Schedule ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

_______

HOUSE RESUMED

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

The Appropriation Bill was reported to the House as having passed through Committee without amendments.

THIRD READING

The Supplementary Appropriation (No. 2) Bill No. 34 of 2024 was read the third time and passed.

_______

HOUSE IN COMMITTEE

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

THE NATIONAL HEALTH RESEARCH AND TRAINING INSTITUTE BILL NO. 13 OF 2024

 Clause 1 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 2 (Interpretation)

The Minister of Technology and Science (Mr Mutati) on behalf of (the Minister of Health (Mr Muchima)): Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 2, on page 6, after line 29 by the insertion of the following new definition:

“National Science Technology Council” means the National Science Technology Council established under the Science and Technology Act No. 26 of 1997;,

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 2, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 3 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 4 – (Functions of Institute)

Mr Mutati on behalf of Mr Muchima: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 4:

1. on page 7, in line 34 by the deletion of the words “research institution” and the substitution therefor of the words “health research institution”; and

1. on page 8, in line 19 by the insertion of the word “health” immediately before the word “research”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 4, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1257 hours until 1430 hours.

HOUSE IN COMMITTEE

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

THE NATIONAL HEALTH RESEARCH AND TRAINING INSTITUTE BILL, 2024

(Consideration resumed)

The Chairperson: We have no quorum. So, I suspend business for five minutes.

Business was suspended from 1440 hours until 1445 hours.

The Chairperson: Order!

CLAUSE 5 – (Board of Institute)

Mr Mutati on behalf of Mr Muchima: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment in Clause 5, on page 9, in line 1 to 15 by the deletion of subclause (1) and the substitution  therefor of the following:

(1)     There is constituted the Board of the Institute which consists of the following part-time members appointed by the Minister:

1. a representative of the Ministry responsible for-

1. health; and

1. livestock and fisheries;

1. a representative of the Attorney-General;

1. a representative of the National Science and Technology Council;

1. a medical doctor from a university, with substantial knowledge and experience in health research;

1. a local representative of an international agency involved in health research;

1. a traditional health practitioner from the Traditional Practitioners Association of Zambia;

1. a member of the public who is distinguished in health research; and

1. a person from the private sector with knowledge and experience in finance or business management.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 5, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 6 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 7 – (Expert Advisory Committee)

Mr Mutati on behalf Mr Muchima: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment in Clause 7, on page 11:

1. in line 5, by the insertion of the word "health" immediately before the word "research"; and

1. in line 15, by the insertion of the word "health" immediately before the word "research".

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 7, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 13 – (Management and control of laboratory)

Mr Mutati on behalf of Mr Muchima: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment in Clause 13, on page 14:

1. in line 20, by the insertion of the word “health” immediately after the word “conduct”; and

1. in line 34, by the deletion of the word “Board’s” and the substitution therefor of the word “Institute’s”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 13, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 20, and 21 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

First and Second Schedules ordered to stand part of the Bill.

LONG TITLE

Mr Mutati on behalf of the Mr Muchima: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in the Long Title on page 5, by the deletion of the words “provide for research in indigenous knowledge, traditional and complementary alternative medicines;” and the substitution therefor of the words “provide for health research in indigenous knowledge, traditional, complementary and alternative medicines;”

Amendment agreed to. Long Title amended accordingly.

Long Title, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

–––––––

ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES

MINISTRY OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY MEETING ON NATIONWIDE MOBILE CONNECTIVITY

The Chairperson: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that I have authorised the Ministry of Technology and Science to hold a meeting aimed at fostering dialogue and understanding on the importance and progress of the nationwide mobile connectivity. The meeting under the theme, “Together Delivering Connectivity Through Mobile Communication Towers” is scheduled to be held today, Friday, 6^th December, 2024, in the Amphitheatre, here at Parliament Buildings, immediately the House adjourns sine die.

I encourage all hon. Members to attend this very important meeting.

Thank you.

_______

THE GREEN ECONOMY AND CLIMATE CHANGE BILL, 2024.

Clause 1 ordered to stand to part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 2 – (Interpretation)

The Minister of Green Economy and Environment (Mr Mposha): Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 2, on Page 8, after line 29, by the insertion of the following new definition:

“community development and benefit sharing agreement" means an agreement that is signed between a project developer and beneficiaries under section 21(7);.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 2, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 3, 4 and 5 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 6 – (Green Economy and Climate Change Council)

Mr Mposha: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment in Clause 6, on Page 14:

1. in line 4, by the deletion of the word “and” immediately after the semi-colon;

1. in line 5, by the deletion of the full stop; and

1. after line 5, by the insertion of the following new subparagraphs immediately after subparagraph (ix):

(x) technology and science; and

(xi) local government and rural development.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 6, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 16 – (Greenhouse gas emission standards)

Mr Mposha: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendments in Clause 16, on Page 18, in lines 6 to 10, by the deletion of sub clause (3) and the substitution therefor of the following:

(3) A person who fails to comply with greenhouse gas emission standards prescribed under subsection (1), commits an offence and is liable, on conviction-

(a) in the case of a natural person, to a fine not exceeding five hundred thousand penalty units or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years, or to both; or.

(b) in the case of a legal person, to a fine of not less than two million penalty units but not exceeding three million penalty units.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 16, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 17, 18, 19 and 20 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 21 – (Evaluation of project proposal)

Mr Mposha: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment in Clause 21, on Page 21:

1. in line 14, by the deletion of the figure “(4)” and the substitution therefor of the figure “(3)”;

1. in line 16, by the deletion of the figure “(7)” and the substitution therefor of the figure “(6)”; and

1. after line 18, by the insertion of the following new subclauses immediately after subclause (6):

(7) A project developer shall prior to implementing a project approved under this section, where applicable, sign a community development and benefit sharing agreement with the beneficiaries where operations are to be carried out in a prescribed manner.

(8) The community development and benefit sharing agreement referred to under subsection (7) under subsection shall contain particulars as prescribed.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 21, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31 and 32, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 33 – (Compliance order)

Mr Mposha: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in clause 33, on page 26, in lines 24 to 27 by the deletion of subclause (5) and the substitution therefor of the following:

     (5) A person who contravenes subsection (30, commits an offence and is liable, on conviction –

1. in the case of natural person, to a fine not exceeding three hundred thousand penalty units or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three years, or both; or

1. in the case of legal person, to a fine of not less than five hundred thousand penalty units but not exceeding three million penalty units.

Amendment agreed to. Clause accordingly amended.

Clause 33, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45 and 46, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 47 – (Savings and transitional provisions)

Mr Mposha: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in clause 47, on page 32

1. in line 2 by the deletion of the word “three” and the substitution therefor of the word “two”; and

1. in line 5 by the deletion of the word “three” and the substitution therefor of the word “two”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause accordingly amended.

Clause 47, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

THE LOCAL AUTHORITIES SUPERANNUATION FUND (Amendment) BILL, 2024

Clause 1 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 2 – (Repeal and replacement of Section 25 retirement benefit)

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in clause 2, on page 5, in lines 18 to 22 by the deletion of subclause (6)

Amendment agreed to. Clause accordingly amended.

Clause 2, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 3 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

First, Second and Third Schedules ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

THE CUSTOMS AND EXCISE (Amendment) BILL, 2024

Clauses 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 11 – (Amendment of section 108)

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause11, on pages 4 to 6 by the deletion of clauses 12, 13 and 14.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 11, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 12, 13 and 14 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

EIGHTH SCHEDULE

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I beg to move a further amendment in the Eighth Schedule, on page 25 by the deletion of Appendix V.

Amendment agreed to. Eighth Schedule amended accordingly.

Eighth Schedule, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses, 24 and 25 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

First, Second, Third and Fourth Schedules ordered to stand part of the Bill.

GENERAL AMENDMENT

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move a general amendment by the renumbering of Clauses 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20,21, 22, and 23 as Clauses 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 and 20 respectively.

Amendment agreed to. Bill amended accordingly.

Title agreed to.

THE ANTI-TERRORISM AND NON-PROLIFERATION (Amendment) BILL, 2024

Clause 1 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 2 – (Amendment of section 2)

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 2:

1. on page 5, in line 12 by the deletion of the word “microbia” and the substitution therefor of the word “microbial”; and

1. on page 12, in lines 18 to 25 by the deletion of the word “radicalises” and the substitution therefor of the following:

“radicalise” means a gradual or phased process that exploits the psychological, political, social, religious, or ideological conditioning of individuals to believe that they are part of a threatened or combative collective identity, in order to socialise them to violent extremism which includes terrorism and “radicalise” and “radicalisation” shall be construed accordingly; and.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 2, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 3 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 4 – (Repeal and replacement of section 19)

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 4, on page 15, in line 24 by the deletion of the words “or attempt to commit”

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 4, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 5 and 6 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 7 – (Insertion of sections 21A, 21B, 21C, 21D, 21E, 21F and 21G)

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 7, on page 20, in lines 15 to 19 by the insertion of the following marginal note:

Unlawful demand for chemical, biological, radiological or nuclear material or device.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 7, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 8 – (Repeal and replacement of section 22)

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 8, on page 21, in lines 16 to 17 by the deletion of the marginal note and the word “The principal Act is amended by the repeal of section 22 and the substitution therefor of the following:” and the substitution therefor of the following:

 The principal Act is amended by the insertion of the following new section 22:.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 8, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 and 14 ordered to stand part of the Bill.  

CLAUSE 15 – (Amendment of section 31)

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 15, on page 24, in lines 30 to 35 by the deletion of Clause 15 and the substitution therefor of the following:

Section 31 of the principal Act is amended by the deletion of-

(a) the marginal note and the substitution therefor of the following:

    conspiring to commit terrorism, terrorism financing, proliferation or proliferation financing

(b) subsection (1) and the substitution therefor of the following:

1.  A person who conspires to commit an act of terrorism, terrorism financing, proliferation or proliferation financing commits an offence and is liable, on conviction, to the penalties specified under sections 19, 21or 22.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 15, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Mr Mwila interjected.

The Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Member for Mufulira, you are too loud.

CLAUSE 16 – (Amendment of section 32)

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 16, on page 25, in lines 1 to 3 by the deletion of Clause 16 and the substitution therefor of the following:

The principal Act is amended by the repeal of section 32 and the substitution therefor of the following:

32. (1) a person commits an offence if that person –                                                    

(a)   invites another person to provide or make available funds or other assets for the     purposes of terrorism, terrorism financing, proliferation or proliferation financing; or                                                              

(b) knowingly provides or makes available funds or other assets, where an invitation is made under paragraph (a).

(2) A person who commits an offence under subsection (1) is liable, on conviction, to the penalties specified under sections 19, 20, 21, or 22. A reference in this section to the provision of funds or other assets is a reference to the funds or other assets being given, lent or otherwise made available, whether or not for consideration.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 16, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 17 – (Repeal and replacement Part V)

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 17, on page 35, in line 25 by deletion of the words “financing of terrorism” and the substitution therefor of the words “terrorism financing”.

Amendment agreed. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 17, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24 and 25 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Second Schedule ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

THE APPROPRIATION BILL, 2024

Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill

Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, Eighth, Ninth, Tenth, Eleventh and Twelfth Schedules ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

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HOUSE RESUMED

[MADAM SPEAKER in the chair]

The following Bills were reported to the House as passed through Committee with amendments

The National Health Research and Training Institute (Amendment) Bill, 2024.

The Green Economy and Climate Change (Amendment) Bill, 2024.

The Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (Amendment) Bill, 2024.

The Customs and Excise (Amendment) Bill, 2024

The Anti-Terrorism and Non-Proliferation (Amendment) Bill, 2024

Report Stages today.

Mr Kambita: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, you know I rarely rise on points of order unless it is very compelling, and the current situation is quite compelling. If you check on your left side, you will see many empty seats there. I rise citing our Standing Order No. 213, on the Conduct of Members, in particular 213(I), which provides that a Member shall at all times conduct himself or herself in a manner that upholds the dignity, integrity and decorum of the House. When there are empty seats, as is the case now, the decorum of the House is brought into disrepute.

Madam Speaker, are the hon. Members of the Patriotic Front (PF), including their leadership, in order to go to the media centre to hold a press briefing when we are actually conducting serious business in the House? We are considering very important Bills. We were elected to this House to come and conduct business of the House. Are they in order to abandon what they were elected for, and to go and politic at the media centre?

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much hon. Member for Zambezi East. Actually, it is very disappointing that some hon. Members from the left have opted to go and address the media at the media centre while the business of the House is on-going. As our rules demand, and as cited by the hon. Member for Zambezi East Parliamentary, parliamentary work takes precedence and we have suspended the Standing Orders so that we can transact the Business of the House conclusively today before we adjourn, but some hon. Members have opted to be at the media centre to hold a press briefing.

If they really wanted to address the press, they should have waited until after adjournment of the House. Then, they would have gone to address, conclusively, whoever they want to address but not to abandon work midstream and go to the media centre to address. On whose behalf are they speaking? They are supposed to represent their constituencies here, in the House. That conduct is not acceptable. So, the hon. Members who are not in the House are actually out of order for not attending to the Business of the House.

It is only that today is our last day, I would have imposed some sanctions, but this is a month of goodwill, and we have a quorum so, we can transact. Let them go and do what they are doing while the Business of the House continues. They will be answerable to their own constituents on why they are not in the House to speak on behalf of the people they represent.

Let us make progress.

The following Bill was reported to the House as having passed through Committee without amendments:

The Appropriation Bill, 2024

Third Reading today.

REPORT STAGE

The National Health Research and Training (Amendment) Bill, 2024.

The Green Economy and Climate Change (Amendment) Bill, 2024.

The Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (Amendment) Bill, 2024.

The Customs and Excise (Amendment) Bill, 2024

The Anti-Terrorism and Non-Proliferation (Amendment) Bill, 2024

The Minerals Regulation Commission Bill, 2024

The Health Professions Bill, 2024

The Zambia National Public Health Institute (Amendment) Bill, 2024

The Zambia Institute of Quantity Surveyors Bill, 2024

Reports adopted.

Third Readings today.

THIRD READING

The following Bills were read the third time and passed:

The National Health Research and Training Institute (Amendment) Bill, 2024

The Green Economy and Climate Change (Amendment) Bill, 2024

The Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (Amendment) Bill, 2024

The Customs and Excise (Amendment) Bill, 2024

The Anti-Terrorism and Non-Proliferation (Amendment) Bill, 2024

The Appropriation Bill, 2024

The Minerals Regulation Commission Bill, 2024

The Health Professions Bill, 2024

The Zambia National Public Health Institute (Amendment) Bill, 2024

The Zambia Institute of Quantity Surveyors Bill, 2024

The Judiciary Administration (Amendment) Bill, 2024

The Income Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2024

The Mobile Money Transaction Levy Bill, 2024

The Property Transfer Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2024

_______

MOTION

ADJOURMENT SINE DIE

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn sine die.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order!

For those who have just come from the press briefing, we are adjourning.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned accordingly at 1557 hours on Friday, 6^th December, 2024, sine die.

_________