Friday, 7^th March, 2025

The House met at 0900 hours

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

______

ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER

STUDENTS FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF ZAMBIA YOUTH UNITED NATIONS ASSOCIATION

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence in the Public Gallery of students from the University of Zambia Youth United Nations Association in Lusaka District.

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

VISITORS FROM LUANSHYA PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence in the Public Gallery of visitors from the Luanshya Parliamentary Constituency in Luanshya District.

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, in line with Standing Order No. 61 of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024, for the smooth running of business today, we will start with the Motion to Suspend Standing Orders and thereafter, we will move to the Business Statement.

I thank you.

______

MOTION

SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER NO. 24(1)

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that Order No. 24(1) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024, be suspended so that the House does not sit on Tuesday, 11^th March, 2025.

Madam Speaker, Standing Order No. 24(1) provides for the days and times of sittings of the House. It is necessary to suspend this Standing Order so that the House does not sit on Tuesday, 11^th March, 2025.

Madam Speaker, as the hon. Members may be aware, tomorrow, Saturday, 8^th March, 2025, is an important day not only in Zambia, but the world over. It is International Women’s Day, a day when we celebrate and appreciate the contributions of women and girls to societal development.

Further, Madam Speaker, Wednesday, 12^th March, 2025, is Youth Day, a day when we commemorate and appreciate the contributions of the young people to the development of the country and prepare them for roles as future leaders of the great nation, Zambia.

Madam Speaker, this Motion has been moved to enable the hon. Members to participate effectively in the two important events in their constituencies. This will also allow hon. Members to attend to other pressing matters that may be pending in their constituencies and requiring their attention.

Madam Speaker, the House Business Committee, at its meeting yesterday, Thursday, 6^th March, 2025, resolved to present this matter to the House for consideration. This is a non-controversial Motion, it simply seeks to give the hon. Members ample time to attend the two events in their constituencies before returning to the Business of the House on Thursday, 13^th March, 2025. I, therefore, urge all hon. Members to support it.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker –

Mr Chisopa: Question!

Mr Mumba: Why are you questioning? Leadership is here.

Madam Speaker, in joining Her Honour the Vice-President and, indeed, the Government, in supporting this Motion which is non-controversial, I would also like to join hands with the many people in wishing our women, a wonderful International Women’s Day, with a befitting theme for 2025, which is “For ALL Women and Girls: Rights. Equality. Empowerment”. This is something that we all should aspire to do since we have been given the opportunity to lead.

Madam Speaker, in supporting the Motion further, I would like to also wish our youths, who have a wonderful theme this year, that is: “Voices Amplified and Innovations Ignited” a happy Youth Day. Indeed, I am sure, the hon. Members here will take time to visit their constituencies after working so hard. It is about time they went and interacted with their constituents. I would like to encourage them, especially given that yours truly performed. So, there is absolutely no reason they should fail to engage within their constituencies and support their constituencies in any way possible.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, this is a non-controversial Motion. Therefore, I do not see the need to have many people debate.

Your Honour the Vice-President, windup debate.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the manner in which you have handled this Motion. I also want to thank the hon. Member who debated and the rest of the hon. Members for supporting this non-controversial Motion.

Madam Speaker, I believe that every hon. Member wants to be with his or her constituents as they celebrate Women’s Day and Youth Day. I believe that hon. Members should consolidate relationships before 2026. I also just want to celebrate the women tomorrow. We must all stand with the women; because they are strong, and our children; the youths. Let us support and give them the encouragement they need.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Question put and agreed to.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, is it possible for us to participate fully and to be mindful of time? I am sure some hon. Members from far-flung constituencies, like Zambezi East, would want to travel. So, is it possible to adjourn early to allow hon. Members to travel safely to their constituencies?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

_______

BUSINESS STATEMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the House Business Committee met on Thursday, 6^th March, 2025, to determine and schedule Business of the House for the period 13^th March, 2025, to 21^st March, 2025.

Madam Speaker, the House Business Committee resolved to lay before the House the following business for consideration in the next two weeks:

Announcements

The Hon. Speaker will make announcements, if there will be any.

Rulings

The Hon. Speaker will render rulings, if there will be any.

Ministerial Statements

Hon. Ministers will present Ministerial Statements on topical issues, if there will

be any.

Bills

The following Bills will be considered:

1. The Cyber Security Bill, No. 29 of 2024. This will be at the Second Reading stage and the date for consideration is 18^th March, 2025;
2. The Cyber Crimes Bill, No. 30 of 2024. This will be at the Second Reading stage and the date for consideration is 18^th March, 2025;
3. The Plant Health Bill, No. 17 of 2025. This will be at the Committee Stage and the date for consideration is 14^th March, 2025; and
4. The Geological and Minerals Development Bill, No. 33 of 2024. This will be at the Committee Stage and the date for consideration is 20^th March, 2025.

Reports on International Conferences

Reports on international conferences will be considered, if there will be any.

Parliamentary Committee Reports

The following Committee report will be considered during the period:

Report of the Zambian Delegation to the 56^th Plenary Assembly of the Southern African Development Community Parliamentary Forum (SADC-PF). The date of consideration will be 13^th March, 2025.

Questions for Oral Answer and Written Answer

Hon. Ministers will respond to twenty-eight Questions for Oral Answer and Questions for Written Answer. The questions are contained in Appendix I of this statement, which will be circulated to all hon. Members. Further, details of the questions are contained in the Notice of Questions of 13^th September, 2024, and 5^th March, 2025, which have already been circulated to all hon. Members.

Questions on Standby

The questions on standby to replace questions that may not be placed on the Order Paper on the designated day due to unforeseen circumstances are contained in Appendix II, which will be circulated to all hon. Members.

Motion of Thanks

Debate on the Motion of Thanks to the President’s Address will be concluded on Friday, 21^st March, 2025.

Madam Speaker, on behalf of the House Business Committee and in accordance with Order No. 44 of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024, I have the pleasure to present the business for the next two weeks to this august House.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

_______

URGENT MATTERS WITHOUT NOTICE

MR KAMPYONGO, HON.MEMBER FOR SHIWANG’ANDU, ON THE LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE, MRS NALUMANGO, ON MEASURES THE GOVERNMENT IS PUTTING IN PLACE TO ADDRESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA’S FOREIGN POLICY ON AID

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): On an Urgent Matter without Notice, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: An Urgent Matter without Notice is raised by the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, let me start by wishing you, Her Honour the Vice-President, distinguished female hon. Members and our distinguished ladies in general a happy Women’s Day. Since we will not be in the House on Tuesday, I would also like to wish our youths, some of whom are in this House, a happy Youth Week. Hopefully, the hon. Minister of Sport, Youth and Arts will highlight programmes that will give hope to our youths, who are hopeless.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, the Urgent Matter without Notice I am raising is directed at the Leader of Government Business in the House.

Madam Speaker, it is now clear that the world order has drastically changed with the coming in of Mr Donald Trump as the President of the United States of America (USA). When we thought that his country’s international policy was only going to affect other nations, we, as a nation, have also been caught up. The US President cited Zambia as having received amounts of money he calls appalling – in his own description – which should have gone to climate change programmes. This situation must not be underrated because it has the potential to affect our overall economic transformation. Also, we cannot downplay the support that Zambia has been receiving from the USA in many sectors from health, education and other social safety net programmes that the Government has undertaken over the years.

Madam Speaker, we would like to hear from Her Honour the Vice-President what the Government is going to do, firstly, in reaction to that unfortunate citation from Mr Donald Trump and, indeed, the measures that will be put in place diplomatically to address the concerns the US President raised. Further, what measures will be put in place to ensure that we are not negatively affected by those pronouncements?

I seek your indulgence, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, you are supposed to raise your matter within two minutes, otherwise, it will be disqualified.

Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, I think, it was last week when we had a Ministerial Statement on the effects of the withdrawal of the funding by the United States Agency for International Development (USAID). I think, those are some of the things which are now coming out. They are now new. Ever since Donald Trump came into office, he has been talking about cutting funding. So, this matter is not new. You should find other platform to raise the matter, so that it can be brought back to the House.

Mr Hamwaata (Pemba): Thank you so much, Madam Speaker, for giving me an opportunity to ask a question, on behalf of the good people of Pemba Constituency.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: It is not a question, it is an Urgent Matter Without Notice.

Laughter

Mr Hamwaata: Madam Speaker, I think, I am ahead of time.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Have we already jumped into the Vice-President’s Question Time?

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Information Communication Technology (ICT) staff, is it possible to clear the list, so that we move to the next segment?

Thank you.

_______

THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Mr Chinkuli (Kanyama): Madam Speaker, the Cash-for-Work programme has actually brought benefits to the people. Our communities are being cleaned, streets are being swept, drainages are being cleaned and garbage is being collected. People are so happy that they even mistake themselves for civil servants, because they are getting some money at the end of the day to put food on the table. They buy mealie meal after they get their money. Looking at the good things or the benefits that people have seen from the programme, I just want to know if the programme will continue for another one year, so that people can continue getting the benefits.

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Kanyama. I think, if I heard him correctly, he referred to the Cash-for-Work programme and probably other social welfare interventions, like the Social Cash Transfer. He said that these programmes are helping the people to put something on the table for their families. Now, the question he posed is: Will these programmes continue for the next one year? The intention of the Government is that such programmes should continue, especially if they are helping people. That is the intention. However, the continuation of the programmes into next year will depend on the resources and, indeed, the environment. Let me use the hon. Member’s question to say something. People should appreciate good things. These interventions are really helping. It does not matter how much people twist the interventions into some other political debate.

Madam Speaker, last time I stood here, I used a phrase from the northern part of the country, particularly Luapula, which says ‘imita ufole,’ and the debate about the saying has been big. I keep wondering, are we Zambians? Do we not understand? I started by explaining the phrase in English. I said ‘this Government is helping pregnant mothers,’ and then my friends, who might not have anything to contest against this Government, made ‘imita ufole’ a big debate. Imita ufole, mwana. Surely, who does not know who is expected to imita? Are you saying the Vice-President of the Republic of Zambia would talk about children, girls? Do we not know that the expectation of any Zambian anywhere is not a pregnant school child? Can we tell children ‘imita’? Have you ever told a child that? So, who thinks that that is what we are talking about when we are intervening? We have programmes like the First 1,000 Most Critical Days, hon. Member for Milanzi. The First 1,000 Most Critical Days start right from pregnancy.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: My time is forty-five minutes –

Mr Mukosa interjected.

The Vice-President: Do not worry. You have been misleading people, my son. Let us understand.

Madam Speaker, it is very unfortunate that lawmakers, here, expect that I would want to break the law. Do we not know that if a person impregnates a child under eighteen years old, he should actually be called a criminal? So, would people fail to understand when I say ‘we help pregnant mothers’? I did not even use the word ‘women,’ I said ‘mothers.’ Even if I had used the word ‘women,’ each one of us, here, must understand that we are talking about a woman in a home. In Zambia, being pregnant is a source of pride, when a woman is married. A woman feels good. Now, some people want to turn the issue political, come on. The women of Luapula realise that sometimes, they are afraid to get pregnant because they do not have resources. Now, when the Government comes in to attend to the issue, you complain. You start saying ‘she is saying what.’ What is wrong with us? People even take figures of speech as if they do not speak vernacular. They start saying things. Come on, ‘imita ufole’ refers to any pregnant mother who is incapable.

Hon. Member: Question!

The Vice-President: There is no question here. You can shout ‘question.’

Mr Chisopa: Question!

The Vice-President: There is no question. It is the truth.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, in my home, I would want my married daughter, not the one who is not married, to get pregnant. So, we do not talk about that. Worse still, we cannot be talking about underage children. Why do some people want to twist a straightforward situation into a political issue?

Madam Speaker, we made laws here. We have strengthened laws through the Children's Code Act. We know where the law ends. This Government will continue supporting such programmes, so that our children can be protected from conception. That is why we are supporting the programmes. Through the programmes of helping mothers, children can develop their brains. The rate of stunted children in this country is 33 per cent, when it should be around 7 per cent. The normal rate is 7 per cent.

So, we are helping the situation. It is not for political, but developmental reasons. Let us understand our vernacular language. I did interpret. I said, “pregnant mothers” and not “pregnant children”. I hope that somebody somewhere is listening. I know the hon. Members understand except for one. We respect and honour women, and I am proud to be a woman. My statement is not to demean a woman. Therefore, if you are a poor woman and you need a child, get pregnant and the Government will support you.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chonya (Kafue): Madam Speaker, most of us have done extremely well in our constituencies with regard to the yellow equipment that we purchased using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), which are being used on our feeder roads. Will there be any policy shift soon to enable us to upgrade our township roads, turn some to bituminous standard, or even maintain the existing roads? Most of our township roads are pathetic and our opponents, so to say, are turning that into a campaign issue. Are we likely, anytime soon, starting to consider working on our township roads? Kafue, in particular, is badly affected by the status of the township roads.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kafue for that question. I appreciate that she noted that yellow machines, which are helping to upgrade the feeder roads in the rural areas, were bought using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Her concern, which I believe, is ours too, is with regard to the upgrade of township roads. Even though I did not fully understand the statement, I would start by saying that indeed, the issue of working on township roads is on the cards. We know that what the hon. Member mentioned is an eyesore which our adversaries, competitors, or enemies would want to take advantage of. However, this Government is slowly working on that issue.

Madam Speaker, if some township roads are so bad, hon. Members can use the yellow machines to make them passable. I note that Hon. Mposha has been trying to work on the roads. What we need is to improve on quality. The Government has a plan and there is progress, except not at the pace that is required. We need to understand that the delay is due to the insufficient resource envelope. However, in certain places, let us do what we can with the yellow machines to make the roads passable.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms M. Phiri (Milanzi): Madam Speaker, before I ask my question, I would like to congratulate Her Honour the Vice-President for dressing beautifully in black, a sign that she has joined the Black Friday movement ...

Interruptions

Ms M. Phiri: ... in protest against the high cost of living, political detention, load-shedding, abductions and –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

What is your question, hon? Member?

Ms M. Phiri: Madam Speaker, my question to Her Honour the Vice-President is: Before forming Government, the United Party for National Development (UPND) promised to continue with the debt swap that the mighty Patriotic Front (PF) Government started. Today, civil servants are choked with the high cost of living and unsustainable debt from microfinance institutions. When is the Government going to fulfil the commitment it made to its people?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Her Honour the Vice-President.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Milanzi, summarise your question.

Ms M. Phiri: Madam Speaker, before forming Government, ...

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Stop the clock.

Ms M. Phiri: …the UPND promised to continue with the debt swap that the PF Government started. Today, civil servants are choking with debt from microfinance institutions. When will the Government fulfil the commitment it made to its people?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question, and I request her to look at me.

Madam Speaker, it is good to wear black sometimes. It is alright, except I have a reason for wearing black, particularly today. Otherwise, it does not mean I cannot wear black. Does the hon. Member want me to announce why? I have a funeral. Even though I am working, I will have to rush to attend the funeral. I do not want to be emotional about it. So, let us not debate clothes.

Interruptions

Hon. Government Member: Shame on you!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

The Vice-President: We can only do that if it is not in line with the dress code of the House. The hon. Member may have meant well, but she has touched my emotions. However, that is alright. It is part of life. I am here, Madam, trying to beat time so that I can run away.

Madam Speaker, regarding the continuation of the debt swap, my hon. Colleagues and I do not remember that that was one of our campaign promises. At first, I thought the hon. Member was asking about the debt restructuring, until she started talking about civil servants who had borrowed under the Mighty Party she belongs to.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: That is a fact. There are regulations that go with how much one can borrow. We know that when one borrows, the lender ensures that one has the capacity to pay back. We feel sorry for our civil servants. The debt swap was not in our ten-point plan and manifesto. So, the hon. Member should have asked if we were working on that issue than saying it was our promise. That would be better. 

Madam Speaker, I do not remember us making that promise. My young hon. Member can bring evidence to show us that we promised a debt swap. I do not remember that as one of the promises. We may not be doing it but, we spoke about it in this House. So, I can follow it up but it is not something that we promised to our civil servants. We have to be responsible. My hon. Minister (pointed at the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning), should not just look at my payslip and lend me money, even if he knows that I cannot pay back. What happened was irresponsible. It was for political expedience.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I will finish with the ladies. The hon. Member for Chikankata.

Ms Sabao (Chikankata): Good morning, Your Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, the report by Transparency International Zambia (TIZ), on the disbursement and utilisation of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is worrying. What measures are being explored to improve the disbursement?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I believe that as hon. Members of Parliament holding constituencies, we should all be concerned about how the disbursement of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is being done. The hon. Member is saying that CDF does not seem to be bringing out the expected results. I think the proposal generally, is the implementation of monitoring mechanisms on the CDF. It is important, hon. Colleagues, that we listen to everybody and work on the weakness that people are seeing so that we improve. We just need to improve. The intention is to improve. One hon. Member asked a question and said that he is happy with the CDF, and that it should be given to the constituencies. So, we listen to issues, and we will see how we will strengthen the programme. You remember that the President sat there and told us that some of us are not doing very well. So, indeed, hon. Members, together we can address the issues. This is a project of the Government, and everybody is part of it.

Under your guidance, Madam Speaker, we can look at how we can strengthen the work and the intention of the CDF. The Auditor-General has raised some issues and others are saying that Transparency International Zambia (TIZ) has also raised issues. So, it is important that we work together. We will listen and see how we can improve the CDF.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sialubalo (Sinazongwe): Madam Speaker, thank you so much.

Her Honour the Vice-President, we love you mum.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sialubalo: We love all the women. This is their month. We need to take good care of them. Thank you so much.

Madam Speaker, let me talk about the imita ufole terminology. This is Women's Month. Does Her Honour the Vice-President not think it is the right time to withdraw that terminology, given that it might end up creating some discomfort amongst women?

Hon. Opposition Member: In-house fighting. Batampa ukulwa.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Sinazongwe.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I have spoken about that. Is it not so? I thought I explained what it meant. Honestly, the hon. Member started by declaring love to us, and I thank him. If the hon. Member was not able to look after his wife– he promised that he would take care of her. He has to understand that there are men who want children, but they might not have the capacity to look after their pregnant wives. Those are the ones we are speaking to. Is he saying people should not imita because they are incapable? Is the Social Cash Transfer payment going to everybody? When the Social Cash Transfer payment is given to a pregnant mother whose baby is due, as the Government, we add K150 on top of the ordinary or emergency fund. This is to support both the baby and the mother’s health. So, the hon. Member wants me to withdraw that? No, no woman should be afraid to get pregnant in this country because she is incapable. We support them.

Mr Samakayi: Hear, hear!

Mr Simumba: Imita ufole.

Mr Chisopa: Confusion.

The Vice-President: That is what it means. So, withdrawing would be saying we stop that programme. We cannot. Even if you are poor, you can have a child. So, sorry, sir. That will not be withdrawn. People can write everything they want. We honour and appreciate the women. If they are not capable, this Government will help them. However, a sixteen-year-old should not be impregnated because that is criminal. You have not read the law?

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, on behalf of the people of Luena, I wish to convey sincere condolences to the Vice-President on the bereavement in her family.

Madam Speaker, four years into power, the Government has achieved so many firsts for the women and the youth of this country. In fact, within the four years, the Government has done more than what was done in what some analysts have described as the ‘wasted ten years’ of the former regime. As we celebrate Women's Day in a day's time, what message would Her Honour the Vice-President give hon. Members of Parliament to encourage us, as we interact with our womenfolk, especially those in the rural areas? What is her message to the women and the youth of this country?

Mr Simumba: Imita ufole.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I heard one hon. Member respond very quickly, and I know it is the naughty one. Sorry, hon. Member.

Laughter

The Vice-President: He shouted ‘what message, imita.’

Laughter

The Vice-President: If your wife is capable.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, what is my message to the women. The hon. Member has explained that so much has been done in the last four years under the current leadership. He further said that it has scored first in many places. At least, we can speak about where we are. The first woman Speaker and two women on the presiding bench. It is rare to have both the first and second Speakers as women. We just limit ourselves here because there are many places where women are doing great things. The President is very sensitive about the appointments he makes. Every time I go for swearing-in ceremonies, I find women on the list of those to be sworn in. Indeed, I agree.

Therefore, what is the message to the women? I said, women are strong. So, the message to them and to you, hon. Members, is, remember that your women are very strong, they will stand with you. Since the hon. Member said ‘to you,’ allow your women to take positions of responsibility in your constituencies and where you operate.

Mr Samakayi: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: I can assure you, they hardly let you down. So, when we go, particularly tomorrow, to celebrate the women, remember that God did not make a mistake to make the two. Deliberately, we call it affirmative action, create space for women. They are performers so they will work. Women out there, just remain who you are. You are wonderful, you keep society, you carry lives, you are the ones who know the secret part of a human being, the nine months alone with the child. Nine months of you and the child. Therefore, life is in the hands of a woman, and peace, unity and love is what a woman stands for. That is my encouragement to the women of Zambia. Continue to be who you are, who God made you to be, a unifier. I am sure, you agree with me, here. We all come from homes. That is who we are.

Hon. Members of Parliament, thank you for appreciating the women here and out there. Do not use them as instruments of your political whatever. We are strong. We will stand with you and we will make you perform.

Madam Speaker, I think, these are too many messages, so I end here.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simumba (Nakonde): Madam Speaker, thank you very much, and Happy International Women’s Day to Her Honour the Vice-President, who is the overseer of imita ufole.

Laughter

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, during the time the United Party for National Development (UPND) was in the Opposition, it heavily condemned the borrowing by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government. I want to put it to her that from the debt that the PF contracted, it built an airport, which they nicknamed, the Sausage Airport. It also built hospitals, mini-hospitals, Level I hospitals, roads, hydro-power stations, and the list is endless. The UPND misled the Zambians that it would never borrow. Today, it has borrowed more than US$5 billion. The Zambians would like to know even two major projects that the Government has undertaken without the utilisation of the CDF in the construction of the 1 x 2 classroom blocks.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Nakonde for giving me a title. I wish I could get pregnant, but even if I did, nobody would pay me because I am capable of looking after myself. You know, hon. Colleagues, this House must be taken extremely seriously. Yes, we have light moments, but I think it is important that we think about what we are say here ˗ 

Madam Speaker, let us encourage people and not politicize everything.  Unfortunately, for me, I work with conviction. So, the hon. Member can roast me the way he wants, but the fact is that we will continue to look after women.

The hon. Member talked about this Government borrowing and what it has done with that money.  Really, the hon. Member cannot tell what we have done? 

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

The Vice-President: No, it does not matter. I am answering ˗

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, Hon. Members!

Give her a chance to respond.

The Vice- President: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I am not even going to say two or three things that the Government is doing. There is so much going on. Firstly, when they boast they boast of having done those projects, did they even pay for them? So, who is paying for that?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: That is one thing we are doing. We are paying the debt. That is what it means. That is a big loan. It is unfortunate that the hon. Member is even undermining his CDF.  The hon. Member must know that when he puts what is happening together, that is the actual development. That is why all of us are crying for decentralisation. It is not only the size of the project that matters, but the equitable distribution of wealth. To me, that is critical.  It is the equitable distribution of wealth. Those are the things that bring acrimony, disputes and confrontations because the hon. Member wants more resources for  Nakonde, forgetting about Kaputa.  I am just using that as an example.  So, what we doing is better than us commencing one big project and fail to pay for it. . We had to borrow to add to the National Budget because we found nothing.  We have actually been reducing the debt through the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Mr B. Mpundu: Tubili?

Mr Kafwaya: Just two? Eh! Question iyo!

The Vice-President: Yes, I have statistics here.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

The Vice-President: Hon. Member for Lunte, I have statistics here. Hon. Members should understand better that in fact, there are different types of debts that we incur. For example, there is what is called the Public External Debt.  I think that is what we are looking at. However, we also have the Public Guaranteed External Debt. I hope I am not misleading the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.  We also have the Domestic Debt, under the Government securities, and the Non-Guaranteed Debt. The figures that I have here indicate that the Public Guaranteed Debt has gone down. We found it at US$1.53 billion. I do not want to read all the years, but it has actually reduced. It has reduced to US$1.3 billion from the initial US$1.53 billion. The Domestic Debt which is under the Government securities has reduced from US$11.5 billion to US$8.23 billion.   Hon. Members should be able to see that it is going down. Those are billions eh! So, people should not say that the there is a difference of one. It is billions. 

Madam Speaker, we had non-guaranteed debts to the tune of US$0.13 billion and that has been fully paid. So, what are we talking about? We are just talking about the Public External Debt. Yes, that one has gone up. We did not find money when we moved into office, but we are working.  Hon. Member, working is not about the size of the project which you do not even pay for in full.  Attending it is about attending to people’s needs.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President:  Madam, we are looking after the people in all the constituencies. Equitable distribution of resources is what we need to sustain a democracy so that nobody is left behind. No constituency should be looked down upon. Everybody must get something and do something.

Madam Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, this Government has attached a lot of importance to education and hence, the Free Education Policy. However, I would like Her Honour the Vice-President to carefully listen to this. This is a deep concern coming from all hon. Members of Parliament that support pupils especially, Grade 9 drop outs. So, at Grade 9, when one  writes  examinations and fails by two, three subjects or whatever in 2025, and the following year, one passes the those subjects, one cannot  proceed to Grade 10  unless the results are combined by the Examinations Council of Zambia (ECZ).

Madam Speaker, the cost alone is K600. Further, there is also the General Certificate of Education (GCE) at Grade 12. For the Hon. Members who have been supporting such pupils or learners, would understand this carefully. At Grade 12 ˗

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is your question?

Mr Mumba: Madam Speaker, this is very important because it is costly. Our children are not seeing the benefit of free education because they cannot proceed to Grade 10. So, I want to find out whether the Government can carefully look at these costs and probably consider writing them off or reducing them, to an extent that even we, hon. Members of Parliament, can use our personal resources to make sure that those children proceed to Grade 10. Those who need to resit examinations can do so and probably do better and benefit from bursaries. This matter should be considered by the Government. I think, the issue is very important. Even as I go back, these are the payments I will be meeting.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Kantanshi for that important question, but sitting here, I do not think I can say that that is something I have followed. Therefore, the answer I would give would be more of my imagination. I will have to find out more. Maybe, next week, we can address the issue, or the hon. Member can come to the office so that we address it. That way, I can hear what is going on, that those who fail, even after they resit and pass the subjects required, cannot go to a normal school. I need to understand these things, and the hon. Minister is not here. I will give the answer when I get a full brief on that issue.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simushi (Sikongo): Madam Speaker, I am grateful for this opportunity to ask a question, on behalf of the people of Sikongo.

Madam Speaker, Zambia is a multi-party democracy in which there is the Ruling Party and opposition political parties. The twenty-year rule of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) and the ten-year rule of the Patriotic Front (PF) saw a very strong opposition. Fortunately, due to the good policies of the United Party for National Development (UPND), we have seen a very weak opposition in place. What word of consolation can Her Honour the Vice-President give our hon. Colleagues in the Opposition, despite the fact that we are going into 2026 with a very weak Opposition?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member has talked about Zambia being a multi-party democracy. Therefore, the expectation is that there is a ruling party and opposition political parties to give proper competition to the Ruling Party. Now, his concern is that the opposition is very weak.

Mr Mapani: True!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, he is on your right side, meaning he is in the Ruling Party. However, he wants me to console hon. Colleagues from the Opposition.

Hon. Member, we will send you there.

Laughter

The Vice-President: It is not our duty to help the Opposition because we are in contention.

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: We are adversaries, not enemies. We are competing for the same space.

Hon. Government Members: We are enjoying.

The Vice-President: Hon. Member, you should enjoy. Is this not the truth? We should be enjoying that they are weak.

Interruptions

Mr Samakayi: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: If it is illusion, somebody is shouting ‘illusion,’ it is possible, but the opposition parties need to prove themselves to us. Let the opposition parties prove that they are strong, because any democracy truly needs strong opposition parties. They are important, but if they are going to take small matters and use them for politicking, I am sorry, hon. Colleagues, Zambians are able to decode. So, my consolation is, hope is not lost, they can still keep some of the seats that they have, depending on how they will handle themselves. They should handle themselves well and stop all the divisions they are creating. That is my consolation. Stop all the divisions. Know the leadership. Do not fight and then attribute the fights to us. We are also political engineers. Do they have political engineers on the other side?

Mr Kampyongo: You will see them soon.

The Vice-President: They need political engineers to survive.

Madam Speaker, as the Ruling Party, as the people in the Government, we also want to entrench ourselves. That is the way it is. The opposition parties have to work hard in the opposition. We want them. We want opposition because it helps us to sit up, sometimes. We want proper opposition parties to give proper checks and balances, not checks and balances on imita ufole.

Mr Nkandu: Hear, hear!

Laughter

The Vice-President: Those are not checks and balances. So, please, those in the Opposition, the overseer is saying ‘please, work hard, be honest and appreciate the good.’ You know, when you appreciate the good, people will see that you mean well, even when you speak of the negative. However, when everything is negative, people start wondering. So, the consolation is, at least, you are still existing. Continue to exist as we continue to rule.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The last hon. Member from the Independents, the hon. Member for Roan, may proceed.

Mr Nkandu: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, I want to sincerely thank you for the opportunity to ask a question.

Her Honour the Vice-President, greetings from the good people of Roan Parliamentary Constituency, and we wish you a happy Mother’s Day, I mean a happy International Women’s Day.

Madam Speaker, when Luanshya Copper Mines was privatised, there were some assets that were not listed on the sales purchase agreement, and these assets were retained by the Office of the Administrator General. Some of the assets were meant to be sold so that the money could be paid to clear arrears, such as contributions to the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) as the contributions were not paid for the miners. In 2020 or 2021, some officials from the previous Government sold the tailing dams at K10 million. I want to find out from the Government, where was the money deposited? Did it go to the Control 99 account? Who benefitted from the money? Who distributed the money to the former miners of Luanshya Copper Mines? As you are aware, the Government was exposed to a lot of ligation. Who benefitted from the money, and where did the money go?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Roan. That question is very important, except it is not a question I can answer while standing here. I need to go back to the books and conduct research. Such questions, I think, as guided even in the Standing Orders, are very difficult because they are specific to a situation and place. So, it is difficult for me to respond. I advise the hon. Member to file in a question to the proper ministry so that answers can be provided. Otherwise, I would not know the answer while standing here. Important as the question may be, I cannot provide answers.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

_______

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER

PRESENCE IN THE PUBLIC GALLERY OF PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM CHIPEPO BOARDING SCHOOL, KAPIRI MPOSHI DISTRICT

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence in the Public Gallery of pupils and teachers from Chipepo Boarding School in Kapiri Mposhi District.

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

_______

QUESTION FOR ORAL ANSWER

Mr E. Banda (Muchinga): Madam Speaker, allow me to join the rest of the world in wishing our women a very happy Women’s Day that falls tomorrow. I would also like to wish our youths a Happy Youth Day. I will be at hand to celebrate with the women and the youths.

UPGRADING OF SERENJE DISTRICT HOSPITAL

247. Mr E.  Banda asked the Minister of Health:

1. whether the Government has any plans to upgrade Serenje District Hospital to  a general hospital;
2. if so, when will the plans be implemented; and
3. if there are no such plans, why?

The Minister of Health (Mr Muchima): Madam Speaker, the Government recognises the growing needs of Serenje District. Therefore, it has plans to upgrade Serenje District Hospital to a general hospital. This will not only benefit the good people of Serenje, but also the surrounding districts, such as Chitambo, Mkushi and Luano.

Madam Speaker, the process is currently underway. Notably, in February 2024, the Health Professions Council of Zambia (HPCZ) successfully assessed the hospital and cleared it for upgrade. The proposed developments include establishing a trauma centre and blood bank at the hospital. However, the project will only commence when funds are made available.

Madam Speaker, the Government has plans, therefore, part (c) of the question falls off.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr E. Banda: Madam Speaker, I just want to tell the hon. Minister that as people from Serenje, we are very happy to hear that there are plans to upgrade Serenje District Hospital. However, the words, “when funds are available” are what make us feel a bit sad.

Madam Speaker, it is important to note that Serenje will serve many people, as the hon. Minister has said. I would like to urge the Government to quickly look for money for the project to upgrade Serenje District Hospital because we keep losing lives daily, through accidents given that Serenje is along the Great North Road. The fact that some people come from afar is what prompted my asking the Government to look into this matter. People from Chisomo, Kabansa and Lavushimanda will also benefit, including those from Nakalengule, Mukopa, Mutale, and others.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is your question, hon Member?

Mr Emmanuel Banda: Madam Speaker, what message of comfort is the hon. Minister giving the people of Serenje since he said that the project would commence when funds are available? Could the hon. Minister give hope to the people of Serenje by assuring them that the project will be done within a stipulated period of time because just saying, “when funds are available”  is not enough assurance as that may be after five or ten years.

Mr Muchima: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the follow-up question. The Government has got priorities. As the hon. Member may be aware, in 2024, we were badly hit by the drought. The other year, we had the Coronavirus (COVID-19) and then, we had a drought. We are still experiencing the effects of the 2024drought. The effects are still great and we have not recovered.

Madam Speaker, let me also talk about the restructuring of the debt whose repayments are being done now. There was completely nothing left. However, the Government has prioritised certain issues to be attended to.

Madam Speaker, the issue of hospital infrastructure is of concern in the entire country. This Government is serious, except that the fiscal space is not available. Be assured that when the money starts flowing and other sectors, especially if we improve on production from the mines which Hon. Kabuswe talks about, the country will balance it up and there will be enough money for us to attend to issues like hospitals because health is key to us. Let me assure the hon. Member that if there will be anything, Chitambo will be on the list.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr E. Banda: Madam Speaker, the responses from the hon. Minister are well appreciated. Having said all this, the people of Serenje are happy and they will be even happier when they see the project take off. At the moment, we would just like to request the hon. Minister to ensure that Serenje is considered to be among the first to receive the ambulances that are distributed in constituencies because we are also struggling with transport for patients.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Since the question is constituency-specific and the hon. Member for Muchinga is happy, we make progress.

______

MOTION OF THANKS

(Debate resumed)

Mr Mulebwa (Kafulafuta): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me the chance, on behalf of the people of Kafulafuta, to make a point or two on the President’s Speech. Let me hasten to say that I will start with non-contentious issues, which should not take much of our time.

Madam Speaker, I think, the issue of delimitation has been debated adequately, and it is something that I support with everything that I am, and the people of Kafulafuta support it.

Madam Speaker, the achievements of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) have been amazing in Kafulafuta. Let me just say that the achievements have been beyond description. Councils managing the CDF is another thing that the people of Kafulafuta warmly welcome.

Madam Speaker, I have chosen to narrow my debate on just one item, which I think is the first on the list, and this is morality. The President talked about it in his speech. By definition, morality means, principles concerning a distinction between right and wrong or good behaviour and bad behaviour.

Madam Speaker, as I was considering this, I realised that what we are trying to do is bring a cure to our nation. One thing that is obvious is that we acknowledge that our nation is faced with immorality thus in his speech, the President was trying to bring back morality in our country. Having looked at the speech carefully, I thought that the cause is good, but I thought that maybe, we needed to diagnose the cause of the immorality that we are suffering from, as a nation. I note that this is not a small issue to tackle or deal with. It is a huge matter that can change the course of our nation if we all deal with it the right way.

Madam Speaker, I could not avoid looking back at how I was brought up. I know that was not part of the President’s Speech, but I am trying to appreciate the principles that can help us achieve morality. I feel that, as a nation, we have missed out on bringing up our children properly. We are living in a society where disciplining our children is no longer encouraged. I think that if we are going to handle or deal with this issue effectively, it should be brought back to the family level. Zambian families should go back to instilling discipline in their children.

Madam Speaker, I visited a certain home where a gentleman, the head of the home, was watching some news and a two-year-old child came in and started crying that he wanted to use the remote control. To my surprise, the remote control was given to the child. Basically, the child was controlling everything, almost running the affairs of the home. When such a child becomes an adult, not having been taught how to behave would not help in any way, no matter how much we would try to correct morals in our nation. The call for us, as a nation, is to go back and begin to instil morals into our children. What is obvious is that morals cannot be instilled in an adult. I have been disappointed many times in this House when I have seen that we have not conducted ourselves in a manner that we ought to. Sometimes, we choose to run comments that are not palatable and not good for the House. Sometimes, we have decided to not respect one another and disrespect can come in many ways. As the people of Kafulafuta, we believe that we need to bring ourselves to a point where we can begin to respect one another. That is where we can probably start from. We need to learn to respect one another. Particularly, young people have to learn to respect elders.

Madam Speaker, when I went to primary school, when we saw any of our teachers coming, if you were seated, we were taught that we needed to stand up. We were taught to greet our elders and so on and so forth. Those are some of the things we do not see these days. That is why I strongly feel that for us to attain morality, we need to go back to the family level, where morals can begin to be advanced from. When we achieve that at the family level, I think, it will help us a lot as a nation in ensuring that we achieve the morality that we desperately need.  I think that in this House, we need it much more than anywhere else.

Madam Speaker, with these few words, I wish to thank you for the opportunity.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, as I indicated earlier, the House needs to adjourn early today, at 1040 hours or before. This is to facilitate the travel of hon. Members to their constituencies for the International Women’s Day celebrations tomorrow, Saturday, 8^th March, 2025. Therefore, I will call upon the last hon. Member to debate today.

The hon. Member for Chinsali may proceed.

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): Madam Speaker, I will restrict my debate to just three issues from the President’s Speech on the Progress Made in the Application of the National Values and Principles, which was delivered to this House on 28^th February, 2025.

Madam Speaker, in his speech, the President –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Please, can we wait for the hon. Member to finish debating. If you continue leaving the House, the quorum will collapse. Let us give the hon. Member a chance to debate, then we will go.

Hon. Member for Chinsali, you may continue.

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, in his address, the President expressed his appreciation to the Zambian people for showing resilience during the difficult times we passed through. This is pertaining to the droughts that we experienced in the 2023/2024 Farming Season, as well as the load-shedding we have been experiencing. The expression of appreciation is, indeed, appreciated.

Madam Speaker, the comment I want to make is that while we may appreciate the Zambian people for their resilience, it is also important for the Government to not take them for granted. What do I mean by this? As we speak today, people are still grappling with electricity deficits. We do understand that there are reasons behind load-shedding, but ZESCO Limited has continued exporting electricity. Today, 7^th March, 2025, there is a report in the Daily Revelation newspaper that the Zambian Government has approved a new deal to export 100 MW of electricity to the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). We are not talking about what relates to the past, but what is yet to come. This is a new arrangement. So, I do not understand how the Government can be so insensitive to the needs of the people, that it decides to start exporting electricity today, when we know that our people are suffering due to an electricity deficit. What is it that the Zambian people have done wrong to the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government for it to neglect their needs?

Madam Speaker, in the same vein, the President advised the Zambian people to be patriotic. That was a genuine call for people to be patriotic. However, while we expect the Zambian people to be patriotic, we also expect the Government to be patriotic towards its citizens. What am I talking about? We need to ensure that the policies that we put in place are favourable to the Zambian people. Again, I will come back to the issue of electricity. We would want the Zambian people to buy products which are produced by Zambian manufacturing companies. However, if the Government does not provide electricity to Zambian companies to use for their production, how do we expect Zambians to buy products that are produced by Zambian companies? If the Government does not provide electricity to local manufacturing companies, the Zambian people will lose jobs because there will be no production and companies will close down. This means that the Government is not supporting Zambian companies. It will be difficult for us to buy Zambian products and promote local manufacturing companies because they are not operating due to lack of electricity and their operations will keep reducing.

Madam Speaker, the other issue that I expected the President to tackle in his address to this Parliament and the nation is dishonesty. The culture of dishonesty among leaders has been increasing. For example, when the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning delivered the 2024 Budget Speech in 2023, he made a commitment to the effect that the Government would construct an airport in Chinsali in 2024. We are now in 2025, and that airport is not there. Wala, nothing! He is there (he pointed at Dr Musokotwane). He came and provided –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, just mind the way you are bringing the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning into your debate. It is better to mention his portfolio, not actually pointing at him.

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, thank you for the guidance.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning who is in this House –

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: No, Hon. Member. Do not even say, “In this House”. Just say, “The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning”.

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning gave an assurance to the people of Chinsali and the people of this country, in general, that the Government would build an airport in Chinsali, but that has not materialised. In his 2024 Budget Address, the hon. Minister also made a commitment to the effect that the Government would build an industrial yard in Chinsali, but that has not come to fruition.

Madam Speaker, in 2023, the hon. Minister of Education made a commitment in this House, to the effect that the Government would complete the construction of Paul Mushindo University in Chinsali but, up to now, nothing has happened. I expected the President to touch on the culture of dishonesty that has developed in Government leaders.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, it is very bad. Leaders are supposed to lead by example. People are supposed to lead by example. When people are in Government, we expect them to lead by example. We expect that when they say something, it should come to fruition. They need to live to fulfil their promises.

Hon. UPND Member: Time up!

Mr Mukosa: No. Time is not up, I still have a minute.

Interruptions

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, the President missed out on that important issue. He should have talked about it, even other assurances that were made by this Government. For example, promises were made that when someone wins the elections, and is sworn in at 1000 hours, the United States (US) Dollar exchange rate would drop from K16 to K10 at 1400 hours. However, as of today, the Zambian Kwacha is at K29 per US Dollar, the worst –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chinsali, please, do not wander so much outside the content of the speech. The speech is specific. Let us not bring up just anything to fit in the content of the speech. Can we be focused on the speech without wasting much time.

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, the President’s speech should have touched on the spirit and culture of dishonesty that has engulfed Government leaders including, the hon. Minister of Education.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Unfortunately, hon. Member, we are just looking at the content of the speech. That is what we are supposed to talk about, not what you think was left out.

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, let me come back to the content of the speech, and talk about the issue that the President talked about regarding the prevention of early pregnancies. The new mantra that has been pronounced by Her Honour the Vice-President, as she has been saying, “Imita ufole”, …

Hon. UPND Member: Question!

Mr Mukosa: … some people are saying that what the people in Government do not understand is that the moment the Government starts giving incentives for someone to get pregnant, even children who are under age can easily become pregnant because of that incentive. If we are, indeed, meant to prevent early pregnancies, we should not be providing incentives for people to get pregnant.

Madam Speaker, with those few remarks, I thank you.

–––––––

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mwiimbu, SC.): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1034 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 13^th March, 2025.

____________