Friday, 8th November, 2024

Friday, 8^th November, 2024

The House met at 0900 hours

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER

DEBATE ON THE MOTION OF SUPPLY

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I have two announcements to make. In the first announcement, I wish to remind the House that debate on the Motion of Supply, which was moved by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning on Tuesday, 5^th November, 2024, will be for a period of ten Sitting days up to Wednesday, 20^th November, 2024. In this regard, hon. Members of the Backbench will be given priority to debate the Motion in the first seven days up to Thursday, 14^th November, 2024, while priority will be given to hon. Members of the Frontbench in the last three days. That is, starting from Friday, 15^th November to Wednesday, 20^th November, 2024, to respond to the various issues that will be raised by the Backbench. I, therefore, encourage all hon. Members to use the remaining days prudently and debate the Motion.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE

Hon. Members, I have received communication to the effect that in the absence of Her Honour the Vice-President, who is attending to other Government Business, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, Mr Jack Mwiimbu, SC., MP, has been appointed Acting Leader of Government Business in the House from today, Friday, 8^th November, 2024, until further notice.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

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RULING BY MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER

POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY HON. C. MWEETWA, MINISTER OF INFORMATION AND MEDIA, ON SOME OPPOSITION MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT FOR MISCONDUCTING THEMSELVES DURING THE ADDRESS AND DEPARTURE OF HIS EXCELLENCY MR EVARISTE NDAYISHIMIYE, PRESIDENT OF BURUNDI

Interruptions

Rev. Katuta interjected.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Chienge!

Do you want to give the ruling?

Rev. Katuta indicated dissent.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Okay, give me an opportunity.

Hon. Members, the House will recall that on Friday, 2^nd August, 2024, immediately after the Vice-President’s Question Time, Hon. C. Mweetwa, MP, Minister of Information and Media, raised a point of order. The point of order was premised on the precedents, practices, traditions and customs of this House and Order No. 117 of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024.

In his point of order, Hon. C. Mweetwa, MP, raised two issues as follows:

whether the hon. Members of Parliament on the Hon. Madam Speaker’s left were in order to misconduct themselves by making running commentaries during the Address by the President of Burundi, especially when he mentioned the donation that his country was giving to Zambia; and

whether the hon. Members on the Hon. Madam Speaker’s left were in order to spring up ‘singing’ as the President of Burundi was leaving the assembly Chamber.

Hon. Members, in her immediate response, the Hon. Madam Speaker reserved her ruling in order for her to study the matter. I have studied the matter and will now render the ruling.

Hon. Members, the point of order by Hon. C. Mweetwa, MP, raises the issue of hon. Members causing disorder during an address by a visiting dignitary.

Order No. 215(d) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024, provides as follows:

“215. Gross Disorderly Conduct

A Member commits an act of gross disorderly conduct if the Member –

attempts to or causes disorder of whatever nature during an address by the President or a visiting dignitary.”

Hon. Members, I had recourse to the verbatim record and relevant recording of the proceedings of Friday, 2^ndAugust, 2024. I will now address the issue raised in the point of order.

Hon. Members, Hon. C. Mweetwa, MP, alleged that hon. Members on the Hon. Madam Speaker’s left were making running commentaries during the President of Burundi’s Address, especially after he announced the donation of 5,000 metric tonnes of maize, rice and beans that his country was giving to Zambia. Although the video footage and the verbatim record of that day’s proceedings did not capture the audio running commentaries, those who were present in the House, including me, remember the running commentaries which were being made ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: ... during the visiting President’s Address. In particular, when the visiting President announced the donation of the 5,000 metric tonnes of maize, rice and beans to assist Zambia as a result of the devastating drought of 2023/2024 based on the African principle of Ubuntu, some hon. Members made very disrespectful remarks, which were aimed at belittling the gesture from the people of Burundi and blaming the Government of the Republic of Zambia for the misfortune. Those utterances were not only disrespectful and shameful, but also unparliamentary. It is not decent for anyone, let alone hon. Members of Parliament, to act in such a manner towards a visiting Head of State or anyone else who shows a good gesture.

Further, hon. Members, Hon. C. Mweetwa, MP, alleged that the hon. Members on the Hon. Madam Speaker’s left sprung up and started singing as the visiting dignitary was leaving the Assembly Chamber. The verbatim record of the material day confirms that hon. Members on the Hon. Madam Speaker’s left started singing after the visiting dignitary and the Hon. Madam Speaker had left the Assembly Chamber, not at the time of leaving as alleged. The video footage reveals that some hon. Members on the Hon. Madam Speaker’s left could be heard singing after the visiting dignitary and the Hon. Madam Speaker had left the Assembly Chamber. Unfortunately, the verbatim record did not capture which hon. Members were singing.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: That notwithstanding, I wish to take this opportunity to remind you, hon. Members –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Lunte!

That notwithstanding, I wish to take this opportunity to remind you, hon. Members, that the conduct of singing showed by some of the hon. Members on the Hon. Madam Speaker’s left as the visiting President left the Assembly Chamber on Friday, 2^nd August, 2024, is a serious breach of our Standing Orders and can attract severe punishment to the erring hon. Member. I, therefore, urge you, hon. Members, to desist from such misbehaviour, which is unbefitting of the status of hon. Members of Parliament. As hon. Members, you are expected, at all times, to conduct yourselves in a manner that upholds the dignity, integrity and decorum of the House as provided for under Order No. 213(1) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024.

Additionally, in relation to hon. Members making running commentaries, I have noted that there is a growing and worrying trend by hon. Members of this House to make running commentaries, some of which are vulgar and disrespectful, when the Speaker’s Procession is entering or leaving the Assembly Chamber. You are hereby cautioned against such acts, as they demean the dignity of this House. The Speaker’s Procession is supposed to be a solemn moment depicting the commencement of Business of the House, which is a serious event. From now forth, all hon. Members will be expected to observe the necessary decorum.

Hon. Members, I also noted that the hon. Minister based his point of order on Order No. 117 of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024. However, Standing Order No. 117 relates to Consolidation of Orders on Bills and is, therefore, not applicable in this instance. In that regard, I urge hon. Members of this House to familiarise themselves with the new Standing Orders to ensure that the correct provisions are cited in the future.

I thank you.

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BUSINESS STATEMENT

The Minister of Home Affairs and National Security, and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mwiimbu SC.): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the House Business Committee met on Thursday, 7^th November, 2024, to determine and schedule Business of the House for the period 12^thNovember to 22^nd November, 2024.

Madam Speaker, the House Business Committee resolved to lay before the House the following business for consideration during the stated period:

Announcements

The Hon. Speaker may make announcements, if there will be any.

Rulings

The Hon. Speaker may render rulings, if there will be any.

Ministerial Statements

Hon. Ministers will render Ministerial Statements on topical issues, if there will be any.

Private Members Motions

The following Private Member’s Motions are scheduled to be considered during this period:

Mr Kafwaya, MP, will move a Motion entitled: “Abolish Fees Payable on Products Derived from Bee Keeping” on 13^th November, 2024;

Mr Fube, MP, will move a Motion entitled: “Formulate Agro-Ecological Zone Based Agriculture Policy” on 13^th November, 2024; and

Mr B. Mpundu, MP, will move a Motion entitled: “Facilitate the Monetisation of Social Media in Zambia” on 20^th November, 2024.

Bills

The Bills listed hereunder will be considered:

The Income Tax Bill, No. 22 of 2024. This will be at the Second Reading stage and the date for consideration is 21^st November 2024;

The Value Added Tax (Amendment) Bill, No. 23 of 2024. This will be at the Second Reading stage and the date for consideration is 21^st November 2024;

The Customs and Excise Duty (Amendment) Bill, No. 24 of 2024. This will be at the Second Reading stage and the date for consideration is 21^st November 2024;

The Mobile Money Transaction Bill, No. 25 of 2024. This will be at the Second Reading stage and the date for consideration is 21^st November 2024;

The Zambia Revenue Authority (Amendment) Bill, No. 26 of 2024. This will be at the Second Reading stage and the date for consideration is 21^st November 2024;

The Property Transfer Tax (Amendment) Bill, No. 27 of 2024. This will be at the Second Reading stage and the date for consideration is 21^st November 2024; and

The Insurance Premium Levy (Amendment) Bill, No. 28 of 2024. This will be at the Second Reading stage and the date for consideration is 21^st November 2024.

Reports on International Conferences

Reports on international conferences will be presented, if there will be any.

Reports on Treaties and International Agreements

The following reports on treaties and international agreements will be considered:

Name of Treaty Committee Date of Consideration

Accession to the Legal Affairs, Human 12^th November, 2024

Second Optional Rights and Governance

Protocol to the

International

Covenant on Civil

and Political Rights,

aiming at the Abolition

of the Death Penalty

Inter-Governmental Energy, Water Development 14^th November, 2024

Memorandum of the and Tourism

Agreement on the

Establishment of the

SADC Centre for

Renewable Energy and

Energy Efficiency

SADC Protocol on National Economy, Trade 15^th November, 2024

Statistics and Labour Matters

Treaty of the Southern Agriculture, Lands and 19^th November, 2025

African Science Centre Natural Resources

For Climate Change and

Adaptive Land

Management (SASSCAL)

Agreement for the Agriculture, Lands 20^th November, 2024

Establishment of the and Natural Resources

African Risk Capital

(ARC) Agency

Questions

Hon. Ministers will respond to twenty-two questions for oral and written answer, as set out hereunder. The details of the questions are contained in the Notice of Questions dated 13^th September, 2024, which was circulated to all hon. Members.

Qn. No. Sector Date

22 Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Tuesday, 12^th November, 2024

Development

270 Infrastructure, Housing and Urban

Development

19 Energy

82 Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Wednesday, 13^thNovember, 2024

Development

145 Local Government and Rural Development

21 Youth, Sport and Arts

179 Fisheries and Livestock Thursday, 14^th November, 2024

200 Local Government and Rural Development

188 Local Government and Rural Development

197 Health Friday, 15^thNovember, 2024

205 Community Development and

Social Services

80 Local Government and Rural Development

68 Commerce, Trade and Industry Tuesday, 19^th November, 2024

218 Community Development and

Social Services

222 Energy

234 Justice Wednesday, 20^thNovember, 2024

250 Home Affairs and Internal Security

236 Technology and Science

51 Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Thursday, 21^stNovember, 2024

Development

210 Education Friday, 22^ndNovember, 2024

248 Infrastructure, Housing and Urban

Development

225 Health

Questions on Standby

The Questions on standby are as set out hereunder:

Question No. Sector

241 Water Development and Sanitation

169 Local Government and Rural Development

219 Energy

32 Energy

58 Fisheries and Livestock

187 Education

181 Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development

266 Education

271 Local Government and Rural Development

6 Home Affairs and Internal Security

20 Fisheries and Livestock

24 Health

163 Education

196 Health

206 The Vice-President

Motion of Supply

The House began the debate on the Motion of Supply moved by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning on Tuesday, 5^th November, 2024 and will conclude the debate on 20^thNovember, 2024. Thereafter, the House will resolve into the Committee of Supply to consider individual Heads of Expenditure.

Heads of Expenditure

The following Heads of Expenditures will be considered:

Head No. Institution Date

Head 01 Office of the President – State House Thursday, 21^stNovember, 2024

Head 02 Office of the Vice-President

Head 03 National Assembly

Head 19 Disaster Management and Mitigation

Unit

Head 05 Electoral Commission of Zambia

Head 06 Civil Service Commission – Office

of the President

Head 07 Office of the Auditor-General

Head 08 Cabinet Office – Office of the President

Head 09 Teaching Service Commission –

Office of the President

Head 27 Public Service Management Division

Head 26 Ministry of Information and Media

Head 44 Ministry of Labour and Social Security

Head 31 Ministry of Justice Friday, 22^nd November, 2024

Head 18 Judiciary

Head 12 Office of the Public Protector

Head 30 Zambia Correctional Services

Head 11 Zambia Police Service – Ministry of

Home Affairs and Internal Security

Head 15 Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal

Security

Head 16 Drug Enforcement Commission

Head 10 Zambia Police Service Commission

Head 36 Zambia Correctional Services

Commission

Head 39 Smart Zambia Institute

Head 25 Local Government Service Commission

Head 29 Ministry of Local Government and

Rural Development

Madam Speaker, on behalf of the House Business Committee and in accordance with Order No. 44 of the National Assembly for Zambia Standing Orders, 2024, I have the pleasure to present the business for the next two weeks to this august House.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

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URGENT MATTERS WITHOUT NOTICE

MR SING’OMBE, HON. MEMBER FOR DUNDUMWEZI, ON THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MR MTOLO, ON THE REPACKAGING OF MAIZE FOR SALE AS DROUGHT RELIEF

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Madam Speaker, my Urgent Matter without Notice is directed to the hon. Minister of Agriculture.

Mr Sing’ombe paused.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You may proceed, hon. Member.

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Speaker, a few months ago, there was an indication from the hon. Minister of Agriculture with regard to reducing the packaging of a 50 kg bag of maize to enable some families in areas like Dundumwezi who may be struggling …

Mr Simumba: Who has died?

Mr Sing’ombe: … to buy a 50 kg bag of maize at K350.

Interruptions

Mr Sing’ombe: It was announced that the ministry would reduce the packaging to 20 kg and 10 kg. I want to know when that brilliant idea will be implemented so that farmers or people in Dundumwezi and other areas can afford to buy a 10 kg or 20 kg bag of maize.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, Indeed, that is a serious matter that needs the attention of the hon. Minister of Agriculture. However, you mentioned that the hon. Minister, it could be two months ago, had mentioned that the ministry would start the repackaging of maize into those kilogrammes that you have indicated. So, this is not a matter that occurred in the last twenty-four hours. Therefore, it does not qualify as an Urgent Matters without Notice.

Since it is almost the beginning of the rainy season, I would advise you, hon. Member, to, maybe, file in an urgent question so that the hon. Minister could do something or, maybe, tell us what is happening to the promise that he made two months ago.

MR MUNIR ZULU, HON. MEMBER FOR LUMEZI, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, MR MWIIMBU, SC., ON GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE WITH OPERATIONS OF THE FOOTBALL ASSOCIATION OF ZAMBIA

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity you have given me to raise this Urgent Matter without Notice. I intended to direct my Urgent Matter without Notice to the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts. Unfortunately, he is not here. So, I will instead direct the matter to the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You may proceed, hon. Member.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, permit me to congratulate the girls of the Zambia National Football Team on having won the Council of Southern Africa Football Associations (COSAFA), in the first place. If there is one thing that unites this country, it is the game of football.

Madam Speaker, the Federation Internationale de Football Association (FIFA) Statutes do not permit government interference in how football is managed anywhere in the world. The reason is that FIFA appreciates that sports, football in particular, should be managed independently. However, here, in our country, we have a situation whereby the current Football Association of Zambia (FAZ) President’s passport has been grabbed by the State. At the moment, the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts is before the court as a result of the Executive’s interference with the game of football, which unites this country.

Madam Speaker, under the previous regime, when the national team won the Africa Cup of Nations (AFCON) in 2012, people were united in this country. So, if we are not careful, or if this is not brought to a stop, people will be divided unlike being united. We need to avoid the FIFA sanctions.

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious indulgence.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Lumezi, again, that might be an important matter. However, it is not admissible under Urgent Matters without Notice. This is because the Standing Orders clearly indicate that an urgent matter should be raised within twenty-four hours of its occurrence and it requires the immediate action of the Government because life or property will be lost or a catastrophe will befall any part of the country if the Government does not act immediately. So, it does not stand on any of these criteria. I would advise the hon. Member to, maybe, find another platform to bring that matter before the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts.

MS NYIRENDA, HON. MEMBER FOR LUNDAZI, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, MR MWIIMBU, SC., ON THE SECURITY SITUATION IN LUNDAZI

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Speaker, the matter I wish to raise is directed to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You may proceed.

Ms Nyirenda: Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Urgent Matter without Notice that I bring forth to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security concerns the security situation in Lundazi.

Madam Speaker, as I am speaking right now, a man is being buried in Lundazi. He died after being ambushed by thieves. He was hit on his head while on a motorcycle and the assailant took away his motorcycle. This is not the first time such a thing has happened. On World Teachers’ Day, we lost a teacher, who was hacked whilst on a motorcycle. Two teachers were actually involved. One of them died while the other has a serious scar and is suffering in hospital.

Madam Speaker, if nothing is done to protect the lives of our people in Lundazi, we are going to lose many lives. Is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, who is, today, acting as Leader of Government Business in the House, in order to sit quietly while our people are being mugged like that in Lundazi?

Madam Speaker, I need your indulgence.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Lundazi, is the Mimistry of Home Affairs and Internal Security or the police aware of the situation in your area?

Ms Nyirenda: Yes, Madam Speaker. Information has been passed on. I informed the Commanding Officer in Lundazi. I spoke to him when the teacher was killed, and I am sure that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security has been given the information, but nothing is being done.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you. So, it seems that the Government is aware of the situation there. Maybe, the hon. Member for Lundazi can file in a question so that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security can respond to it.

Rev. Katuta: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, thank you so much. This is a point of order on the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, and it is very important.

Madam Speaker, United Party for National Development (UPND) cadres have locked the offices of council workers in Chienge and they are also threatening them. Their lives are really in danger. So, I want to know why the hon. Minister has remained quiet when the UPND Government promised the Zambian people that there would be no more cadreism. This is urgent because the local government employees are the ones who deliver services, but their offices are locked and I do not even know where they are as we speak.

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What Standing Order are you referring to?

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, I was supposed to rise on Urgent Matters without Notice. This is very urgent. I need the intervention of the Government as we speak.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you, hon. Member for Chienge. However, that does not qualify to be raised as a point of order because a point of order is supposed to be raised when a breach in the House has occurred. However, the matter you have raised occurred outside the House. I know, maybe, you wanted to bring it up under Urgent Matters without Notice but, again, when we look at the rules of the Standing Orders, we only allow three matters to be raised in one Sitting. So, hon. Member, maybe, you can just find another avenue, maybe, to discuss the matter with the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. Since today is Friday, definitely, you will need some guidance or an answer so that you can inform the people in your constituency. I do not know if there is any other platform you can use but, for now, I would advise you to discuss this issue quietly with the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security for the sake of your people.

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

VACCINATION OF CATTLE AGAINST CHITONGO DISEASE IN PEMBA DISTRICT

111. Mr Hamwaata (Pemba) asked the Minister of Fisheries and Livestock:

(a) what the cause of the delay in vaccinating the cattle for farmers in Pemba District who paid for vaccination against Chitongo disease in September, 2023, is;

(b) how many farmers paid for the vaccination;

(c) how much money, in total, was paid for the exercise; and

(d) when the cattle will be vaccinated.

The Minister of Fisheries and Livestock (Mr Kapala): Madam Speaker, tick-borne diseases, especially the East Coast Fever (ECF), are the major cause of cattle mortality in Zambia, especially among our small-scale farmers. My ministry has, therefore, prioritised their control because they pose a threat to the development of the cattle industry in the country.

Madam Speaker, the control of ECF is done mainly through regular dipping to control ticks and immunisation of calves between the ages of three to eighteen months old. The immunisation of cattle against ECF is mainly conducted in the Southern Province, using the Chitongo Stabilate, and in the Eastern Province, using the Katete Stabilate.

Madam Speaker, because of the importance that the Government attaches to the control of ECF, the cost of immunising cattle is subsidised, with farmers only paying K50 per calf. The payment for immunisation can be done prior to vaccination or at the time of vaccination. In the case of Pemba District, the ministry targeted to vaccinate 3,000 calves in 2023. However, the response from farmers was overwhelming, which led to an extra 588 calves being paid for. This meant that the allocated vaccination materials and stabilate could not cater for the extra 588 calves. The extra calves were to be covered in the 2024 round of vaccination.

Madam Speaker, the delay of the 2024 ECF immunisation campaign is due to the lengthy process of accessing the funds in the ECF Reserve Account held at the liquidated Investrust Bank.

Madam Speaker, a total of 310 farmers paid for the calves and K179,400 was the amount paid.

Madam Speaker, the ECF immunisation campaign is expected to commence next month, in December 2024.

Madam Speaker, my ministry through the Central Veterinary Research Institute (CVRI), has produced 79,000 ECF stabilate to be used in both the Southern Province and the Eastern Province. The records of farmers who paid for calves are available at our district offices. So, their calves will be immunised during the next round of immunisation.

Madam Speaker, allow me to give some additional information regarding the matter.

Firstly, the ECF is a management disease, and I am sure, the hon. Member is aware of this. I would like to emphasise that ECF, like other tick-borne diseases, is a management disease. As such, farmers are responsible for the prevention and control of the disease. However, given the importance of the disease to farmers, the Government is involved in its management through three key interventions, namely:

production of the stabilate and vaccination of cattle at a subsidised rate;

facilitation of the provision of dipping facilities through the provision of resources now under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), and standardised technical drawings for the design of dip tanks. To this end, I did deliver a Ministerial Statement to this august House, about a week ago, to give the status on the dip tank programme; and

provision of extension services to guide farmers in the prevention and treatment of the disease.

Madam Speaker, secondly the scheduled timing of ECF vaccinations is that the vaccinations are normally undertaken between April/May and August/October to take care of the increased tick challenge during these times. The 2024 vaccinations are falling out of this schedule, but as the old adage goes, “Better late than never”. The delay was beyond my ministry’s control, as the resources were locked up in the liquidated Investrust Bank, as I earlier submitted.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Hamwaata: Madam Speaker, as a district and a constituency, we appreciate that the Government is doing a lot to protect our animals. I am aware that my district has received about 50,000 doses to protect our animals against the East Coast Fever (ECF).

Madam Speaker, as the hon. Minister has alluded to, by December, the animals will be vaccinated. What that simply means is that all the animals will be vaccinated and no payment will be made by our people, which we appreciate. However, we have farmers who paid for the vaccination of about 588 animals, yet their animals were not vaccinated. What is the position of the Government regarding the people who paid? I wish to bring to the hon. Minister’s attention that the farmers whose animals were not vaccinated were not paying individually, but in groups. One of the members would make the payment. As such, those who were entrusted to make the payments are in trouble with the owners of the money because they are suspected of having misused the money. I would like to know if the farmers will be refunded. What is the position of the Government on this matter?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I have already indicated that the vaccination of the remaining animals, which were paid for, will be done next month. The records are there. So, we will be able to vaccinate the numbers that are outstanding. I do not think, it would be prudent for anybody to start asking for reimbursement because this exercise will definitely be carried out next month.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving the good people of Mbabala an opportunity, to ask a supplementary question to the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock. I would also like to thank the hon. Minister for the responses he has given to my neighbour in Pemba. Mbabala and Pemba share a very long border.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that some animals were vaccinated and then there was over subscription, and that the extra animals were not vaccinated. In terms of cattle management, that means that some animals had ticks while others did not. So, there will be reinfection, as those animals that have ticks will continue having ticks and will pass them on to the vaccinated ones. What measure is the ministry putting in place to ensure that we do not have such reinfections as a result of not completing the vaccination process in order to completely lock up the East Coast Fever (ECF)?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, allow me to read the last sentence in my response. “My ministry through the CVRI, has produced 79,000 ECF stabilate to be used in both the Southern Province and the Eastern Province.”

Madam Speaker, should the need arise, my ministry is ready to go and vaccinate those animals that have reinfections.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Hamwaata: Madam Speaker, I feel that my earlier question was not fully answered. I would like to get a clearer response.

Madam Speaker, is there any difference between the vaccine that will be administered, where we have received about 50,000 vaccines, and the one that the hon. Minister has just mentioned? I thought it was the same. If it is the same, the hon. Minister earlier indicated that those who will take their animals will not make any payment, meaning that even those who made the payment will have their animals vaccinated. So, what is the Government’s position on that? I ask because we have a group of people who are going to take their animals and will not pay and others who paid earlier.

May the hon. Minister clarify on that one.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, it is gratifying to note that there are already 50,000 vaccines available in Pemba. As I earlier indicated, ECF is a management disease. So, those farmers who require their animals to be vaccinated have to pay for the vaccine. Those animals which were not vaccinated will definitely be vaccinated next month. So, I do not see any problem regarding this issue.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi tezhi): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for his responses. I would also like to commend the great efforts that the ministry is making in helping the farmers, especially in managing, diseases in the Southern Province.

Madam Speaker, in his response to Hon. Hamwaata, the hon. Minister indicated that the ministry is also enhancing extension services, which is a good thing. However, is he aware that in Pemba and many other places, the Extension Officers do not stay in their camps? They stay in Pemba Town. The same goes for Itezhi-Tezhi, the Extension Officers are in town instead of staying in their respective camps, where they are supposed to provide services. Teachers and nurses are there, but the Extension Officers from the ministry are not there. What steps is the ministry taking to address that problem?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, that is something new that has just come to my attention. I promise the hon. Member of Parliament for Itezhi-Tezhi, that I will go to the office to verify the information that he has just given to this House and that I will take corrective measures if that is the situation on the ground.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Next question from the hon. Member for Lukashaya.

Mr Chisanga (Lukashya): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity to ask the hon. Minister a question. Before I do that, with your permission, I would like to start by paying tribute to the outgoing Vice-President of the United States of America (USA), Mrs Kamala Harris, for the spirited fight she put in her campaign, in which she lost an election, and to the Democratic Party for yielding to the victor, Mr Donald Trump. That is how democracy must be.

Madam Speaker, Mrs Harris, I think, is a pride amongst women. She put up a very spirited fight and when she lost, together with the Democratic Party, she magnanimously accepted defeat. She followed the example of Zambia, Senegal and, now, Botswana, where a government which is in power gives up when it loses to the opposition.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisanga: Madam Speaker, the people of Lukashya ask Question 112.

ALLOCATION OF LAND TO THE GOVERNMENT OF RWANDA

112. Mr Chisanga asked the Minister of Lands and Natural Resources:

whether the Government has any plans to allocate 10,000 ha of land to the Government of Rwanda;

if so, where this land is located;

what the Rwandese Government intends to use the land for;

what the consideration for the allocation is; and

whether the allocation will not result in the displacement of people.

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Mtolo) (on behalf of the Minister of Lands and Natural Resources (Mrs Masebo)): Madam Speaker, the Government, through the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources, has no plans to allocate 10,000 ha of land to the Government of Rwanda.

Madam Speaker, since the Government, through the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources, has no plans, parts (b), (c), (d) and (e) of the question fall off.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chisanga: Madam Speaker, there was a news item, in which a diplomat attached to the Republic of Zambia was thanking Her Honour the Vice-President for allocating 10,000 ha of land to Rwanda. Should we take it that the diplomat was not telling the truth?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, we are aware about the sentiments which appeared in the media with regard to the allocation of 10,000 ha of land to Rwanda. However, we, as the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources, have not formally received the application to that effect. It is our considered view that the application is still in the process with other Government institutions since, according to the Lands Administrative Circular No.1 of 1985, access to land can be from different angles. However, insofar as the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources is concerned, we are yet to receive a formal application. Once we do, we will be in a position to respond accordingly.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwan’gandu): Madam Speaker, what necessitated the hon. Member of Parliament for Lukashya’s posing the question is the official statement that was issued by the Ambassador in the presence of Her Honour the Vice-President when she was receiving some donation of maize, which donation was the subject of some ruling today, and we questioned.

Madam Speaker, the man was categorically thanking the Government of the Republic of Zambia for offering 10,000 ha of land to his country. It would appear that, in reciprocating that gesture from our Government, the Government of Rwanda was donating food to us, which we have questioned, saying that, we have managed to feed ourselves over the years and that in as much as receiving donations is a good gesture, food has not been an issue for our country over the sixty years we have ruled ourselves.

Madam Speaker, may the hon. Minister categorically state whether the Ambassador was giving a false statement in thanking the Government of Zambia, through Her Honour the Vice-President. The hon. Minister should be categorical. This is because from what the Ambassador said, it is like his country had already been offered that portion of land. I do not think, an Ambassador would lament from nowhere.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, please, do not debate. You have already asked the question.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, we want a clear-cut response from the Acting hon. Minister.

Mr Chaatila: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chaatila: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to raise this point of order according to Standing Order No. 71.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu in order to insinuate that food has never been a problem in Zambia when under his party’s rule, my constituency was receiving gaga?

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Interruptions

Mr Chaatila: Madam Speaker, under the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government, we had the same challenge, whereby we received yellow maize. Is he in order to stand in this House and mislead the nation?

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling, considering that he is one of the former hon. Ministers under the Patriotic Front (PF), and the record must be set straight.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, I am sure, you have been observing the food situations over a good period, maybe, for ten years, five years, three years, or two years. I think, there have been years when we had difficulties, whereby people were asking for food relief. So, if you say that there has not been a time when food was an issue, then, you are out of order because there was a time, truly, when there was no food, not that there was completely no food. Rather there was no adequate food. That statement is not correct. Therefore, you are out of order.

I will allow the Acting hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources to respond to the question asked by the hon. Member for Shawang’andu.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Have you forgotten the question?

Mr Kampyongo: He has forgotten!

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I think, my response was very clear. I am responding here, as the Minister responsible for Land and Natural Resources, that we have not received any application from the Rwandese Government. I also stated, very calmly so, that, yes, other institutions could be processing that but, as the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources, we have not received that application, and I will not answer for the other institutions.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, Zambia has about 70,000,000 ha of land usable for agriculture, but only about 7,000,000 ha is being used, which is less than 10 per cent. I want to know from the hon. Minister whether his ministry could actually consider, if it were possible, engaging other countries that would be interested in venturing into agricultural activities so that we could grow our agricultural sector?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I am sure, the hon. Member is aware that the Ministry of Agriculture is actually distributing land, advertising it and encouraging investors to venture into the farming blocks. So, as the Ministry of lands and Natural Resources, we have given some land to the Ministry of Agriculture to parcel out. However, to answer his question, let us use an example of Zambia Sugar PLC, it sits on in excess of 20,000 ha of land, and it brings into the country more than US$80 million per annum. That type of investment we appreciate. We would not hesitate to encourage the Ministry of Agriculture to go ahead and engage other countries to invest in agriculture, if they have intentions like that.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu): Madam Speaker, it is becoming common among hon. Ministers from foreign nations to make pronouncements vis-a-vis the Zambian Government giving them land. Even the hon. Minister of Agriculture’s counterpart from Kenya, after meeting him, made the declaration that Zambia has given Kenya huge pieces of land. The other person made the same declaration. My question to the hon. Minister is: In the event that foreign governments request for land from our Government, is he going to give them?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, how I wish that question was directed to the Ministry of Agriculture, because we, as the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources, allow the Ministry of Agriculture some parcels of land so that it can give out. However, …

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtolo: … it is important for the House to note that Zambia will not hesitate in any way to give out land if it has to, for investments in agriculture. We are going to attract foreign direct investment (FDI) into the farming blocks so that we can benefit, as a country, by having foreign capital come to produce and export. I want to insist on that. I gave an example here of Nakambala Sugar Estate. Who owns Nakambala Sugar Estate? What quantity of output is it making? We need to understand the type of money Nakambala is bringing in and the type of employment it has created. There are a number of examples that we can give. What would be wrong with that? It is not in order for this House to sensationalise issues which are straightforward and are meant to benefit this country. When we meet here, let us discuss developmental issues rather than alarm people and cause unnecessary tension …

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: … when it does not need to be there.

Madam Speaker, I wish to plead with our colleagues here, those who want to alarm the nation for whatever reason, that it is not necessary. Let us come here and talk development. We, as the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources, have given land to the Ministry of Agriculture and, if the Ministry of Agriculture feels it wise and necessary to give to whoever, as long as it brings employment and investment, that will be done.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, it must be made clear that we are here not by ourselves. We are here to represent people, and when there is a concern that our people want to be addressed, we are the ones here to do so, collectively, both the hon. Members on your left and those on your right. Therefore, the hon. Minister should know that when we come here, we bring matters that are of interest to the members of the public.

Madam Speaker, my point of order is pursuant to Standing Orders No. 75 and 105. The standard practice in the Cabinet is that when a member of the Cabinet is representing another in an Acting position, they do not forego their substantive position. In this case, the hon. Minister of Agriculture, who is also the Acting hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources cannot abdicate the responsibilities of the Ministry of Agriculture. He can perform them both if the matter is raised on the Floor.

Madam Speaker, was the hon. Minister in order to suggest that the question regarding the land which was claimed by his counterpart from Kenya should have been directed to the Ministry of Agriculture when he could have taken advantage to respond to that because it is public knowledge? That pronouncement was publicly made and the people have the right to ask us, who are their representatives to know what is happening to their land. This is the same matter that was raised by the hon. Member for Lukashya.

Madam Speaker, was the hon. Minister, therefore, in order to suggest that the other part of the question should have gone to the Ministry of Agriculture when he could have taken advantage to respond, as the substantive Minister of Agriculture?

I seek your serious guidance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, you have debated the point of order. You also cited Standing Order No. 75, which is about the Maiden Speeches. It states that:

“(1) A Backbencher shall not debate in the House until he or she has made his or her Maiden Speech”.

You also mentioned Standing Order No. 105, which is about the Public Bill. Therefore, your citing of the Standing Orders, hon. Member, was incorrect.

Mr Kampyongo: It is Standing Order No. 71, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: No, from what you had mentioned; you said Standing Orders No. 75 and 105.

However, hon. Minister, if you have information that is related to this question, you might as well provide it, unless you do not have the answer on that particular matter. I think, there has been mention of the Ministry of Agriculture, where you are from. If there is an answer to that question, which is related or might be related to the question at hand, you can provide that information. If you are not prepared, then we cannot force you. Also, If you are not sure of the connection between the two, we cannot force you to answer the question, but if you have the information related to that matter, you might as well share it with the hon. Members. That is just a guidance, hon. Minister.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, in my response, I made it very clear that we have been informed that another institution, in this case, the Ministry of Agriculture, has received the application. However, as the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources, on which I stand before you this morning, my answer is very clear: We have not received an application from Rwanda. This morning, I want to make that point very clear, and that is what I am standing on. If the hon. Member wishes me to give a statement as the Minister of Agriculture, may I be given a question so that I prepare adequately and come ready to respond.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, may I take this great honour to ask the Acting hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources, a very important follow-up question. May I also indicate that from the responses that have been provided so far, it is possible, and I think that it is most likely that there is an active application sitting in one Government department. You are aware that there are thirty ministries in Zambia. We have the Ministry of Agriculture, the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources and many other ministries that interact with foreign institutions. Based on the way the hon. Minister has responded so far, we may be tempted to conclude that there is an active application.

Madam Speaker, the Acting hon. Minister is aware that when a question is posed to a Government ministry, some form of cross-checking has to be done. This means that when he notices that a particular question is about Rwanda asking for or being given 10,000 ha of land, he must be able to cross-check, which other ministry could be involved. Could it be the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry or the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA)? There must be an active application based on the way he has responded. I know, he does not want to confirm, but I can tell from his demeanour and the language he has used that, actually, there is an active application.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, just ask your question.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, my question is: Has the hon. Minister cross-checked which Government department or ministry has that application letter, because it was the basis for the commitment that was made on television?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, that is a direct question, and I will respond to it directly. Yes, the Government of Rwanda has made an application to the Ministry of Agriculture for land, but here, I was standing as Minister of Lands and Natural Resources, and I will not accept that we have received an application.

I thank you, Madam Speaker

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, when we were in the Government, it used to be known as one Government. So, what happens in the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources would be deliberated on by the Chief Government Spokesperson, who used to be this one (Indicated Hon. Mulenga Kampamba).

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has confirmed that the Ministry of Agriculture received the application for land from the Rwandese Government. However, that application has not been transferred from the Ministry of Agriculture to the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources. I would like to know from the hon. Minister, once he receives that application, which is already in his Government, or once one part of the Government receives what is already on the other part of the Government, where will he allocate the land? I say so because when one investor had asked for 8,000,000 ha of land, the allocation covered Luapula Province, Muchinga Province and the Northern Province. So, for this particular application, where is he allocating it?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I will respond under the portfolio of the Ministry of Agriculture because that is where I can get that information.

The Rwandese Government has asked for land in Lusaka.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Mtolo: The question was where, and I have said that they have asked for land in Lusaka.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, the issue of land is very sensitive, especially when it is being given to another Government. In my language, we say ubukulu bwamfumu ili yonse nimpanga.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Meaning?

Rev. Katuta: Meaning – Mucisungu ati shani efyondandile? Ubukulu bwamfumu nimpanga, hon. Members, what is the meaning of that proverb in English?

Interruption

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Hon. Member for Chienge, can you, please, translate.

Rev. Katuta: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Now the English has come back. It means that any chief will only be honoured or respected according to the land he possesses.

Madam Speaker, the issue of land is very sensitive. We have seen it in other countries where they have made it so clear that no foreigner should own any piece of land.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has given us two answers; The “no” answer and the “yes” answer. So, which answer should we take, as Zambians? This is because we are talking about the government from another country applying for land in our country. We are not talking about Zambia Sugar Company; it is not an investor. I would like to know which answer we should take. Has the Zambian Government given land to another government?

Mr Kasandwe: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kasandwe: Madam Speaker, my point of order is pursuant to Standing Order No. 75.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Lukashya asked the hon. Minister if the Government has any plans to give land to the Government of Rwanda. Part (b) of the question is about where the land in question was going to be allocated. In part (c) – Well, I will not go through all the questions. The hon. Minister, in his answer, said that the Government has no plans to do so and that, therefore, the other three questions fell off. However, in responding to Hon. Kang’ombe’s question, he indicated that the Government of Rwanda has applied for land in Lusaka, but initially, he said the question fell off because the Government has no intentions.

Again, when he was responding, he said that the Government would gladly give land to any investor. So, the hon. Minister is misleading himself and the House. Is he in order, in one vein, to say that the Government has no intention, and in another, to say, the Ministry of Agriculture has received an application for land in Lusaka? Is the Acting hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources in order, to go to Bangweulu, fishing in providing answers?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Bangweulu, the hon. Minister is here with us. He is not in Bangweulu.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Regarding your point of order, hon. Member, again, you have cited the wrong Standing Order. Standing Order No. 75 is about Maiden Speeches. I will end at that because your point of order is the same as the question that was asked by the hon. Member for Chienge. The issues are the same. So, I would rather allow the hon. Minister to answer. He is here.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I thank you. I think, let me start by correcting the notion that this debate can be spreading, and wrongly so, to this nation. First of all, let us understand the land tenure system in Zambia; we should not ask questions like people who do not understand that. There is no one who possesses land in this country. Land in this country is held by the President and all the land given out is on lease. So, let us not talk as if we are getting part of Zambia and issuing it out to foreigners. That is wrong, and that is the sentiment which I can see some colleagues here trying to pass out to the country. That is not the case. Land is given out on lease. It can be given out for ten, twenty, or ninety-nine years.

Madam Speaker, even if my colleagues press so hard on it, the fact that I am Acting Minister of Lands and Natural Resources should not be confused with my being the Minister of Agriculture. The Ministry of Agriculture receives applications and processes them. That is when the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources gets involved. So, to say that I am giving two answers is wrong, and we should not be allowed to proceed in that way. The issue is that the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources has not received any application while the Ministry of Agriculture has received one, and these are two different entities. What if the Ministry of Agriculture refuses to give land to Rwanda? Why should we stand here and say that the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources –

Rev. Katuta interjected.

Mr Mtolo: You keep quiet!

Why should the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources start indicating –

Interruptions

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, may I be protected from that noisy female hon. Member of Parliament.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chienge, please, lower your voice.

Acting hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources, you may continue.

Mr Mtolo: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I was indicating that we should not sit here, and mislead the country in to believing that Zambia is parceling out land. If we are to give anyone land, it will be on lease and the Ministry of Agriculture will determine what type of lease to give. Further, the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources will accept or reject the applications. In case some people do not know out there, no land above 1,000 ha will be given without Presidential authentication. So, we should not be sitting here afraid that we may give out land to other countries, and leave nothing for our people and, therefore, disadvantage someone. I want to repeat, as Minister of Agriculture and Acting Minister of Lands and Natural Resources, that if companies come with FDI to develop our land, yes, we will allocate them land.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Kabwata gave an indication of the land that we have in Zambia. However, we actually have 75, 000,000 ha of land, of which 45, 000,000 ha is arable. As things stand now, we are only using 7,000,000 ha of land out of our arable 45,000,000 ha. Why should we not give it out to people who want to develop it? Why are we being sentimental about this? We are happy to see trucks coming into our country to mine, but we are not happy to develop Agriculture. What type of thinking is that?

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We can make progress.

Next question from the hon. Member for Mbabala.

Mr Chisanga indicated.

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Thank you so much, Madam Speaker –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Just a minute, hon. Member for Mbabala!

Hon. Member for Lukashya, you raised your hand and you were interjecting. What is the problem?

Mr Chisanga: Madam Speaker, I was entitled to ask two questions, but I did not ask the second question.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The problem is that if you indicate last, I may not see your name. So, be quick to indicate so that I can see your name. I did not see your name, and the list was here for a long time. Please, in future, just learn to indicate quickly so that the Presiding Officer can see your name.

Hon. Member for Mbabala, you may continue. We have already made progress.

Mr Munsanje: Thank you so much, Madam Speaker.

His Excellency the late President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, talked about nashala neka parties. We would like to invite those who are launching nashala neka parties to join this August House.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Mbabala!

Is that the question number? You have started debating, yet you are supposed to indicate the question number.

REDUCTION OF THE IMPORT DUTY ON SOLAR GADGETS, IRRIGATION EQUIPMENT AND WATER TANKS

113. Mr Munsanje asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning

Whether the Government has any plans to reduce import duty on the following products in order to support farming activities following the drought experienced in the 2023/2024 rainy season:

Solar Gadgets
Irrigation Equipment; and
Water Tanks

If so, when the plans will be implemented; and

If there are no such plan. Why?

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Let us not waste taxpayers’ money. We are supposed to transact serious business, and the people out there are listening. So, if you speak and laugh so loudly, you disturb the people who are listening out there. I had guided you to lower your voices. I think that was enough guidance.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that the Government has suspended customs duty on some solar gadgets through Statutory Instrument (SI) No. 86 of 2019, the Customs and Excise (Machinery and Equipment) (Suspension) Regulations of 2019; SI No. 17 of 2022; and Customs and Excise (Electronic Machinery and Equipment) (Suspension) (Amendment) Regulations of 2022. Among others, the above-mentioned SIs provided relief on the equipment that are photovoltaic in nature, equipment of solar cells and equipment or devices that convert sunlight directly into electricity.

Madam Speaker, on irrigation equipment, the main irrigation equipment for agriculture or horticulture under Harmonised Systems (HS) code 8424.82.00 is already free of customs duty. However, the accompanying auxiliary equipment, such as circuit breakers and electric panels, under HS Code 8536.20.00 and HS 8537.10.00, attract customs duties at the rate of 15 per cent and 25 per cent, respectively. This is because the accompanying auxiliary components to the irrigation equipment are of multiple use.

Madam Speaker, reservoir tanks and similar containers under HS 7309.00.00 attract customs duty at the rate of 15 per cent. The House may wish to note that the tanks form part of the accompanying auxiliary components to the irrigation equipment and, as such, will be considered under the Regulations highlighted in the second point above. However, appropriate due diligence will be undertaken to ensure that the tanks that are locally produced will not be negatively affected by that law.

Madam Speaker, the Government is in the process of issuing an SI to provide relief on the complete package for irrigation equipment. The promulgation of these regulations to provide relief on irrigation systems is a matter of priority, and implementation will be as soon as the on-going consultations with the key stakeholders are concluded. The ministry will, further, continue engaging with the relevant stakeholders on some of these issues to come up with solutions.

Madam Speaker, part (c) of the question is not applicable.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, thank you so much. I also thank the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for his response.

Madam Speaker, regarding irrigation equipment, the hon. Minister talked about the customs duty being around 10 per cent and 15 per cent. Is the ministry considering effecting the relief this year, so that our farmers can move ahead to increase the hectarage under irrigation, especially our co-operatives under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) that are interested in doing that work?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, yes. As I said, the regulations are being drafted now and, as soon as that is done, they will be effected.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): I thank you once again, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, the question that was raised by my colleague from Mbabala is a very important one as it relates to taxation, because duty is a tax, on equipment for agricultural purposes.

Madam Speaker, you are aware that we have a challenge with the contribution of agriculture to our gross domestic product (GDP) growth for this particular financial year and for the next one as a result of the challenges we have had in the energy sector. The issue of solar, probably, has been dealt with and we cannot dispute it. I think that the Government has taken steps on that particular component. However, irrigation is not just about solar; it is also about the pump and tanks to which the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has referred to. The hon. Minister has also indicated that there is a way in which he wants to protect the local manufacturers of tanks, which is why he has imposed a tax. Is he taking steps, therefore, to ensure that these particular pieces of equipment that, unfortunately, to date, still attract duty, progressively, maybe, going into 2025, to start being exempted from taxes?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, thank you.

Hon. Member, I said that this is now a balancing act, because there are tanks and similar equipment that are produced locally. So, if we remove tax on them, it means that tanks coming from cheaper places will overwhelm those that are locally produced here, thereby creating unemployment. So, what is in place here is a balancing act, so that we preserve jobs while, at the same time, where possible, we lower the tax rate.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, thank you so much.

Hon. Minister, farming is what we are looking at in our country to divert from copper and other minerals. Most of our people who are peasant farmers are the ones who are feeding the nation. However, when we are faced with drought, they are unable to afford items like solar gadgets, equipment for irrigation and all other items involved. I know that there is a programme that the Government has put in place, which does not cover everyone, including the people in Mbabala, Chienge and all those areas where we have mass production from peasant farmers. I would like to know from the hon. Minister if he is planning to start a programme of giving out these kinds of equipment like solar gadgets to the peasant farmers, just like it is done with the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). I ask this because these farmers are the majority and they put together their production to feed the nation.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, thank you.

Yes, I think, we must look at the issue in a comprehensive manner. First of all, we need to realise that money is always short and that it is not possible to support every farmer to venture into irrigation at the same time. So, it is a programme that is going to run over many years. As things stand right now, some interventions have been made. The Sustainable Agriculture Financing Facility (SAFF) programme is on, and I did announce in the National Budget that the amount has been doubled from what it was last year, which enables the hon. Member to go to a bank to borrow, and part of that loan is guaranteed by the Government. That programme is running.

Madam Speaker, there is also the programme under the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC), which has always been there, under which again, the Government continues to provide funding so that those who want to borrow for the purpose of farming and buying irrigation equipment can do so. There are similar programmes under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). As you may recall, there is an empowerment component under the CDF in which people can borrow money and buy agricultural equipment, which might include that for irrigation. Then, of course, there is the Farmer Input support Programme (FISP) itself. For those under the Electronic Voucher (e-Voucher) system, they can make a contribution of K400, which is then sent into their Electronic Wallet (eWallet) and when they go to procure, they can choose to not procure fertiliser and instead procure something that will help them to irrigate.

Madam Speaker, there are a number of programmes that are already in place. The point, however, is that it is not possible in one agricultural season or even two or five, to cover the whole country. This is something that we are ready to roll out over many years.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chinkuli (Kanyama): Madam Speaker, thank you.

The hon. Minister talked about the reliefs that are being offered through the Statutory Instruments (SIs). Is there a period in which the same reliefs can be enjoyed or will they just be going on and on, looking at the few that were in the agricultural field?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, if I understood the hon. Member, then, the answer is, as I said earlier, that this programme is one we have to continue implementing over many years. Just like the issue of building dams, we all know that we need dams, but there can never be enough money within one year to construct all the dams that we need. So, it is a journey that we can pursue every year so that, indeed, we can support the farmers to irrigate.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

MOTIONS

REPORT OF THE PLANNING AND BUDGETING COMMITTEE ON THE 2025 PUBLIC BODIES EXTERNAL BORROWING PLAN

Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House adopts the Report of the Planning and Budgeting Committee on the 2025 Public Bodies External Borrowing Plan, for the Fourth Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on Wednesday, 6^thNovember, 2024.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Mr Speaker, the people of Lundazi second the Motion.

Mr Chaatila: Mr Speaker, in line with Standing Order No. 175(1) and the Committee’s terms of reference, as provided under Order No. 204(4) of the National Assembly of Zambia, Standing Orders, 2024, the Committee was tasked with scrutinising the 2025 Public Bodies External Borrowing Plan. To fulfil this mandate, the Committee engaged with a range of stakeholders, including both State and non-State actors.

Mr Speaker, the 2025 Public Bodies External Borrowing Plan is a significant milestone in Zambia’s debt management, marking the first time an External Borrowing Plan for public bodies has been submitted to the National Assembly under the Public Debt Management Acts No. 15 of 2022. This process demonstrates the Government’s commitment to ensuring debt sustainability beyond Central Government debt.

Mr Speaker, the 2025 External Borrowing Plan proposes the contraction of US$65 million in loans by two public bodies, and these are the Zambia National Building Society (ZNBS) and the Zambia Industrial Commercial Bank (ZICB). The ZNBS seeks to borrow US$35 million to expand access to mortgages and housing finance while the ZICB aims to contract US$30 million to finance small and medium enterprises (SMEs) and other critical sectors. Both initiatives align with the goals of the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP) by fostering affordable housing, job creation, and economic growth.

Mr Speaker, I wish to report that all stakeholders who engaged with your Committee expressed their support for the 2025 Public Bodies External Borrowing Plan. They recognised the potential of these loans to stimulate economic growth by creating jobs, reducing the housing deficit and enabling the expansion of SMEs.

Mr Speaker, following the Committee’s examination of the plan and the input from stakeholders, the Committee presents the observations and recommendations that follow.

Mr Speaker, the Committee observes that both the ZNBS and the ZICB demonstrated sound financial positions as of the end of September 2024, with adequate capital to meet their borrowing obligations without relying on the Treasury. However, recent Government interventions through budgetary appropriations, such as that for Investrust Bank, highlight the potential risk of fiscal exposure if State-owned enterprises (SOEs) face financial distress. Further, the Committee noted that should this House approve the borrowing plan, both institutions will be exposed to foreign currency risks. Of the US$35 million that the ZNBS intends to borrow, it plans to borrow the equivalent of US$20 million in Zambian Kwacha and the equivalent of US$15 million in South African Rand. In contrast, the entire borrowing of US$30 million by the ZICB will be in United States Dollars. In this regard, the Committee was assured that the ZICB would mitigate this risk by establishing foreign currency hedges, while the ZNBS would manage currency risks on its Rand-denominated borrowing by investing in high-yielding loans, explaining that the Rand was chosen specifically for its lower volatility against the Kwacha.

Mr Speaker, the Committee also observes that the Zambia Credit Guarantee Scheme (ZCGS), though a valuable risk-sharing initiative aimed at improving access to capital for SMEs, has stringent requirements that may lead to sustained high lending rates, thus limiting access for many SMEs. The Committee, therefore, recommends that the Government considers revising the requirements of the scheme to improve access to affordable financing.

Mr Speaker, your Committee also noted concerns over the relatively high non-performing loan ratio of the ZICB, which stands at 9 per cent, against the regulatory threshold of 10 per cent of the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) and could pose risks to its financial stability. The Committee, therefore, recommends that the bank enhance its credit risk management practices, including stricter credit assessments and more effective underwriting and loan recovery measures.

Additionally, Mr Speaker, the Committee noted that domestic financing options, such as fixed deposits, were explored, but proved more expensive than external financing. However, both institutions had not pursued alternative financing through shareholder dilution by inviting additional investors via preferential shares. In this regard, the Committee recommends that these institutions explore such options as a means to attracting additional investment and reducing reliance on debt financing.

Lastly, Mr Speaker, the Committee acknowledged that while both the Cabinet and National Assembly approval of external borrowing were necessary controls to preventing unsustainable debt contraction by SOEs, it expressed concern about the lengthy approval process, which could place SOEs at a disadvantage compared with private-sector entities with faster approval processes. Therefore, the Committee recommends streamlining of the approval process to help SOEs compete more effectively in the market.

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, I extend the Committee’s gratitude to all the stakeholders for their valuable contributions. The Committee also expresses its sincere appreciation to you and the Clerk of National Assembly for the support provided throughout this process.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Ms Nyirenda: Now, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, I rise to second the Motion that has been ably moved by the chairperson of the Planning and Budgeting Committee.

Mr Speaker, I just have a few things which I want to bring out as these two bodies, the Zambia Industrial Commercial Bank (ZICB) and Zambia National Building Society (ZNBS), require the support of us, Members of Parliament.

Mr Speaker, ZNBS intends to borrow in order to grow the housing financing and make it more affordable. I wish to underscore the fact that the Committee's recognition of the borrowing plan's role in promoting access to affordable housing and finance for small and medium enterprises (SMEs) is critical. Zambia can only develop and attain the objectives of the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP) if we are able to provide affordable accommodation for our people in Zambia.

Mr Speaker, the second issue that I want to bring to the attention of the House is the concern that your Committee noted over the poor financial performance of most State-owned enterprises (SOEs), such as Zesco Limited, Zamtel, Zampost, Zambia Railways (ZR) Limited and Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC). Most of these companies do not make any profit; they mostly make heavy losses. So, when the witnesses appeared before the Committee, the concern of the Committee members was how possible it was that the ZNBS and ZICB were going to manage to recapitalise and be able to post profits, unlike what has been obtaining all this time.

Mr Speaker, the Committee was informed through the investment vehicle, the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC), that the latter had developed a long-term strategic plan to transform its portfolio companies and ensure sustainable returns for both the IDC and the Government. There was, however, still a concern in the Committee on why the IDC, being the parent of all these companies which are now coming to seek loans as individuals, was not able to obtain the loan and disperse to most of these companies.

Mr Speaker, there was an issue of the enhancement of SME financing through the ZICB. The ZICB aimed to facilitate affordable credit to SMEs and small-scale farmers. Your Committee was concerned that the bank should remain with its objective of obtaining the loan and not changing to prefer to lend to people who are already well-to-do. The bank should maintain the reason it is getting this loans.

Mr Speaker, another issue which was brought to your Committee is that of foreign exchange risk management. Although the ZICB intended to hedge against this risk by lending in local currency for clients with local income streams and, thereby, protecting borrowers from currency fluctuations, there was a concern that money which is borrowed in foreign currency would still be paid back in foreign currency. There was also a concern that bringing these issues to Parliament was taking extremely long and disadvantaging the people who are in the money markets. Your Committee was informed that there was a need to streamline the process as it is disadvantaging the ZICB and the ZNBS. The extended approval processes for public bodies loans place the institutions at a competitive disadvantage against private entities. The Committee, therefore, recommends the development streamlined approval mechanisms to facilitate timely access to necessary funding.

Mr Speaker, there was also an issue of enhanced oversight through live audits. To ensure real-time corrective action and transparency, the Committee recommends that implementing live audits by the Office of the Auditor-General will enable timely responses to financial mismanagement issues.

Mr Speaker, there is very little that I can say about these institutions that have come before the House, but seek the support of the hon. Members who are in the House today.

Mr Speaker, with these few remarks, I beg to second.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, the pleasure is all mine to make a few comments on this very important report, titled, “2025 Public Bodies External Borrowing Plan”.

Mr Speaker, from the outset, I want to put it on record that the Public Debt Management Act of 2022 is a very good piece of legislation. It is actually the reason we are discussing this issue. If we did not have a law in place to deal with public bodies borrowing money and needing Parliament to have this discussion taking place, we would, probably, not be discussing this matter.

Mr Speaker, I am aware that the 2022 law is an amendment to the initial law, which was approved by Parliament, I think, in the year 2020. So, from the outset, it must be put on record that from a legal point of view, what we are performing today is a requirement of the law. The law demands that if a public body wishes to borrow money, it is our duty, as Parliament, to interrogate why the body wants to borrow that money, the interest rate at which it will borrow that money and how much money will be raised from that particular investment. This is why I will quickly take you to page 2 of the report of the chairperson of the Committee representing you. Before that, I want to thank the vice-chairperson of the Committee for seconding this report.

Mr Speaker, on page 2 of the report, there is a table labeled Table 1. The table refers to how much money the Zambia National Building Society (ZNBS) wants to borrow. So, the ZNBS wants to borrow US$35 million. From the report, the loan tenure is fifteen years. The first things I would have expected this report to cover are the payment schedules; how the money will start coming back. You see, if we lend out money, because the ZNBS will essentially be borrowing money and then issuing mortgages, and I am happy that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is present, the questions we must ask ourselves are: Do we have payment schedules that will show how the money will start coming back? Do we have predictions and estimations of how the people we will lend this money to will pay back? The issue here is basically not whether we should find money to provide mortgages. Rather, it is whether the people who will be given the funds to invest in housing will actually have the capacity to pay back. So, this is my first point and submission to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, and the chairperson of the Committee.

Mr Speaker, we needed, in this report, some form of assurance that, as we lend out the money that we are borrowing, we will be able to recover it. There are two things happening here; we are borrowing US$35 million and we have to lend it out. Some people will have to get that money and go and build. So, the question is: Do we have a strategy for recovering that money? Are we assuming that whoever gets this mortgage will be able to pay back the money within the fifteen-year period? I have noticed that the interest rate is 21.5 per cent. So, I am asking myself, as a Member of Parliament, if someone borrows money from the ZNBS, what is the interest rate for borrowing that money? We are borrowing at 21.5 per cent, according to the report. If someone had to go ZNBS, at what interest rate are they going to borrow? Will that correlate with recovering the level of investment that we would have put in? I hope, as the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning responds to this matter, we will be told how this money will be paid back. Apart from the general design of the mortgage, I think that the percentage at which we are lending out needs to be clarified. We need to be told whether that lending rate will be affordable. We have been discussing the cost of borrowing in this august House. So, I hope, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning will be able to respond to this particular matter.

Secondly, Mr Speaker, in your report, on page 3, there is a reference to 1,325 households. These are the households that are going to get mortgages. My question to the chairperson of your Committee is: Do we have a categorisation of these households? Who are these individuals? Are we targeting people who are in urban set ups? Are we targeting districts in Zambia where people have been relocated to go and start work? For instance, we have the new districts that have been set up. You are aware that Zambia had seventy-three districts, but now we have 116. Is the strategy to target the extra districts that have been created? Is that the concept behind this particular contraction of a loan? So, I expected that this report would be clearer so that we know very well that the US$35 million we are borrowing is targeted at a particular provision.

Lastly, Mr Speaker, due to the limitation of time, you are aware that I am on record, asking where the workers for Investrust Bank would go, and we were told that the Zambia Industrial and Commercial Bank (ZICB) would take on board some of them. The report indicates that the ZICB wants to borrow US$30 million, and that has to be repaid in seven years. I expected that in this report, there would be some mention of how we are going to get all the workers from Investrust Bank integrated because, now, there is liquidity in the ZICB. I am very passionate about the workers of Investrust Bank because I know that we could have done better in managing that problem. My proposal, therefore, would be, if we are getting US$30 million into the ZICB, it would be good that we actually look at the number of workers that we have not been able to integrate from Investrust Bank into the ZICB because the liquidity is there for them to be able to manage the fund. The US$30 million will definitely need people to manage it. I hope that when the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning comes to respond, he will be able to refer to how we are managing the integration of Investrust Bank into the ZICB given the money that we are going to approve as the lending facility.

Mr Speaker, lastly, as I know that I only have fifty-four seconds to comment, I also expected that the ZICB, apart from targeting agriculture, to also focus on the energy sub-sector. This report appears to focus on agriculture. However, with the energy crisis, there has been a lot of appetite for entrepreneurs to go into ventures like selling solar systems. Trading in this particular sub-sector clearly has a lot of potential. If, today, we lent money to someone who is setting up solar panels and solar batteries, there would be a high chance of that person having good returns. So, I hope that as the hon. Minister responds, he will also deal with the issue of investing in the energy sub-sector. Apart from the agricultural sector, could we have approved this funding to the ZICB also being invested in the energy sub-sector?

Unfortunately, Mr Speaker, I have limited time. I would have loved to have been given more time to comment. So, I just wish to support the proposed Public Bodies Borrowing Plan. I hope that next time, we will be given ample time to comment on this matter.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according the people of Chama an opportunity to say a few words on this very important report. I also want to thank the chairperson and the vice-chairperson for coming up with this good report.

Mr Speaker, I have very few areas to comment on. The first one is Head 21 – Loans and Investments, under the Ministry and Finance and National Planning. I noticed that under the 2024 National Budget, K18.8 billion was allocated under Loans and Investment. Under the 2025 National Budget, K21.9 billion is allocated. I feel that the increment is not enough, looking at the challenges this country is facing at the moment. This country is facing –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Ahead of you, there is a Motion that you are supposed to speak to. So, you are contravening against the Business of the House.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: What is on the Floor now, being transacted, is the Motion. We have not reached there yet. So, appropriately, we will accord you the chance to debate. For now, let us consider the Motion that has been presented on the Floor and offer your contributions against or for it.

You may proceed.

Mr Mtayachalo: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Allow me to withdraw for now. I will come and debate later.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Mr Speaker, the people of Lunte have no objection to the proposed borrowing by the hon. Minister. Instead they would just like to make submissions on two issues. Firstly, it is on the impact of this proposal on the 2025 proposed Budget. Secondly, I will make a few comments on one borrower.

Mr Speaker, just a few days ago, we approved the borrowing plan for K34.7 billion. The proposal the hon. Minister has brought to this House - As far as I know, a Government guarantee is Government borrowing. My colleague, the hon. Member for Kamfinsa, was speaking to the capacity of the institutions to ensure that those who borrow from them will be able to repay in order for the institutions to pay back their creditors. If they fail, it, then becomes the responsibility of the Government to repay the debt. Therefore, a Government guarantee is Government borrowing.

Mr Speaker, if we have already approved the borrowing plan and, now, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has brought another Government borrowing plan, what does that say to the credibility of their Budget? I just wanted the hon Minister to take that into account because he is now varying his Budget before it is approved. Imagine that! We are varying the 2025 Budget before it even passes the Assembly. I actually think that the hon. Minister needs to think critically about that issue. Imagine that the Budget, which is not yet approved, was presented on 27^thSeptember, 2024, then one month later, there is an adjustment to it. What does he say to that? This is the question I would like to put before the hon. Minister.

Mr Speaker, the other issue I would like to comment on is regarding one borrower; the bank. For the other institution that deals with the creation of homes and other things, I have very little to doubt about it. However, as for the bank, I want to state that recently, the Government decided to hand over another bank which failed, to this particular bank. One bank fails and the Government decides to hand it over to this particular bank. A few months later, the bank goes to the Government and proposes that it wants to borrow, and that the Government should guarantee its borrowing. How did we decide that the same bank should be the one to take over a failing bank? For me, these are the issues that we need to critically consider.

Mr Speaker, if I were anyone on the right side of the House, I would have recommended that the bank has no capacity to take over another bank so that the failing bank would have been given to another entity with capacity, not one that would go to the Government and say, ‘Now that we have taken over the assets and liabilities of another bank, we are failing. Therefore, give us more money or guarantee for us to borrow.’ This is a credit risk to the Government of the Republic of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to consider that his role should be to reduce, as opposed to increasing, the credit risk of the Zambian people through Government interactions with those who are borrowing and burdening the Zambian people. Creating this risk is already a problem. What more if it crystallises? Then, the problem becomes bigger. So, my sense is that advice ought to be offered to these institutions from the outset, as opposed to giving them advice after they make all sorts of mess-ups and then coming in and talking about their borrowing.

Mr Speaker, I have no objection to the borrowing. First of all, even if I had an objection, the United Party for National Development (UPND) has no other way of solving this problem.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Kafwaya: They have written in this report, which I have read, that they had considered some options, but they were too costly. So, the UPND would have no other way of coming out of this problem other than borrowing.

Mr Speaker, I wish to support the hon. Minister’s proposals for borrowing as I tender those issues for his consideration.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me an opportunity to comment on the Motion ably moved by the chairperson of the Planning and Budgeting Committee and seconded by the hon. Member of Parliament for Lundazi.

Mr Speaker, your Committee is recommending to this august House the approval of the Public Bodies Borrowing Plan, which was prepared to facilitate the borrowing of two public institutions, namely the Zambian National Building Society (ZNBS) and the Zambia Industrial and Commercial Bank (ZICB). My colleagues who have spoken before me highlighted some of the challenges brought out in the report. I am reluctant to support this Motion based on the challenges highlighted in the report.

Mr Speaker, Hon. Kafwaya was just speaking to some of the acquisitions by the one body, which is the ZICB, and in this report, it is said to be stable. Of course, it has adequate liquidity for it to borrow. However, on page 4, the report also shows that the bank has increased its non-performing loan (NPL) ratio as a result of acquiring the two banks, that is, the insolvent Intermarket Banking Corporation and the recently acquired Investrust Bank, which have raised its NPL ratio to 9 per cent. That percentage is just below the regulatory recommendation of 10 per cent. So, the risks that have been highlighted by Hon. Kafwaya are valid and very important to observe.

The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning’s acknowledgment that the consideration of local options has been found to be more costly than external borrowing is worrisome, Mr Speaker, because that speaks to the performance of our economy. This is so because if the economy was really sound, the options that have been highlighted here would have been very suitable. There are options such as fixed deposits from institutional investors which were under consideration, but were found to be expensive. The other one was the dilution of shares by issuing preferential shares. These would have been local solutions.

Mr Speaker, the risk of borrowing externally is that there are certain fundamentals that cannot be assumed. For example, the exchange rate is not stable at the moment. The external shocks could also pose a serious risk. Like Hon. Kang’ombe was saying, this will then impact on the percentage of repayment from the borrowers. So, I would have loved the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to address the local economic performance of the Government because, really, the US$35 million for the ZNBS and US$30 million for the ZICB would have been easily mobilised locally. If we look at the investment portfolios the ZNBS is looking at, it is about building. What is the cost of materials? Today, one cannot go and buy roofing sheets at the same price as yesterday, late alone, a week after. So, all these are critical issues.

Mr Speaker, the building of housing, now, is a challenge for citizens. So, if the bodies are going to borrow expensive money and expect that Zambians are going to benefit – We have seen the projected numbers that are being targeted in the report by the analysis of the borrowing, the report says it was intended to provide finance for approximately 5,000 households and registered businesses, targeting the small and medium enterprise (SMEs) and agriculture. Again, the same report is telling us that the intervention of the Government using the limitation of the Zambia Credit Guarantee Scheme (ZCGS) will pose a challenge to the SMEs. So, what are we going to achieve? In as much as we would want the hon. Minister to allow these institutions to borrow, and the report states that it will not pose any risk to the balance sheet because the bodies will depend on their balance sheets to borrow without re-course to the Treasury, ultimately, the people who will be borrowing are the ones who have direct benefit from the Treasury.

Mr Speaker, if the hon. Minister heard me clearly, I said that the interest rates will depend on the cost of the money that is being borrowed. I have already said that the exchange rate is not under our control. If it was, today, the Dollar would not have been at K27.30. We would have loved it to be below K20. However, it keeps increasing; it is not going down. Who knows, before the end of this year, it could be hitting K30. These are things that are beyond our control. So, we should not take pride in borrowing from external sources because it might be beyond our control. As I said, there could be other external factors that will be beyond our control. So, our emphasis should have been that the hon. Minister tried and stabilise the economy. Yes, he has spoken to the investments that are going to be generating a lot of revenue, but why should it be so much of a problem?

Mr Speaker, my colleague was just talking about the banks that have gone under, and which have been taken over. So, if these fundamentals cannot be addressed locally, we should not take pride in borrowing externally because it will be continuously difficult and unsustainable.

Mr Speaker, I thought I could add my comments.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, before the people of Chilubi speak to the borrowing plan, I would like to appreciate what your Committee or Parliament has done and say that is how it should be.

Mr Speaker, according to Article 63(d) and Article 207(1) and (2) of the Constitution of Zambia, the people of Chilubi expected that the proposed borrowing plan would have included money for Tanzania-Zambia Mafuta (TAZAMA) Pipeline project and the Lusaka-Ndola Dual Carriageway and we would not have had problems with that. However, I think, the people of Chilubi would like to go on record saying that the Government has taken this route for the public bodies while the Lusaka-Ndola Dual Carriageway and the TAZAMA deals still remain in brackets, there is no following of the procedure of the Public Debt Management Act of 2022 as well as the Constitution of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, my reference is mainly to the role of Parliament in approving such debt. I think, if you peruse through the Articles that I have indicated, you will agree with me that the Lusaka-Ndola Dual Carriageway and the TAZAMA Pipeline deal still beg for answers.

Mr Speaker, the people of Chilubi would like to agree with, and appreciate and support the presentation, which has followed the legal route that requires the public bodies’ borrowing to be approved in this manner. The suggestions put forward and where the borrowing will be going are in line with the Eight National Development Plan (8NDP), especially on job creation, to which the Zambia National Building Society (ZNBS) will contribute about 10,000 jobs while the Zambia Industrial Commercial Bank (ZICB) will contribute 20,000 jobs in 2025.

Mr Speaker, I want to bring your attention to the issue of agro-business, which will be supported by the ZICB. It is time we started aligning our approach when talking about agro-business. For instance, the hon. Minister of Agriculture reported that the facility we got for irrigation in the farming blocks, which was US$300 million, did not perform well. We need to scrutinise how this borrowing will benefit the people.

Mr Speaker, I also want to bring to your attention the fact that the structure of the ZNBS, mainly the beneficiary structure, is account holder-based. I want to declare the interest that one of the earliest accounts that I held when I was a young person is with the ZNBS. I have been following the ZNBS for a long period. Therefore, I am a bit grounded in understanding how this is being disbursed. This means that the 1,225 households that are supposed to benefit, probably, will be account holder-based. I think that they will have to expand around the beneficiary base.

Mr Speaker, I also want to caution that the issues of liquidity and solvency of the ZNBS and the ZICB should be scrutinised properly because we have seen a trend in which the Government-driven banks or financing institutions have been sustained because the Government injects money whenever they have weak legs.

Mr Speaker, I have in mind the Meridien Biao Bank Zambia (MBBZ) saga and the Development Bank of Zambia (DBZ), which had faced problems. In line with this, I want to state that with the volatility that is going on in the market, especially in the financial markets, we should take precautions. I am not saying that these two institutions should not borrow, but rather that we should take precautions, especially with the ZICB, which is a new entrant in the money market, so that we may not face problems that the DBZ faced.

Mr Speaker, I want to look at the same issue that I have raised in terms of the ZICB, which in this case, has taken on its shoulder Investrust Bank’s insolvency. This means that all the responsibilities of Investrust Bank would be shouldered by the ZICB. The lesson from the DBZ is still alive in our minds. I think, there is a need to take precautions so that we do not face the risk of bank failure.

Interruptions

Mr Fube: Mr Speaker, can I be protected.

Ms Sefulo interjected.

Mr Fube: This young girl has just woken up from sleep.

Mr Speaker, I was looking at the issue of putting in place safety valves to make sure that the ZICB does not face the same fate as DBZ. If we are to look at the structure and the resiliency that was demonstrated by the DBZ, compared with the new entrant on the market, I think that there is no comparison. The borrowing we are proposing today, which is US$30 million and US$35 million, might give the banks an artificial stamina and make them think that they may compete favourably with other commercial banks, and they will be enjoying that cushion artificially when there is serious volatility in the market.

Mr Speaker, on that note, I think, the people of Chilubi would like to submit that we take precautions insofar as we want to look at this borrowing, especially on the issue of bank failure.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Mr Speaker, the people of Luena are grateful for the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the report of your Committee.

Mr Speaker, for the first time, I align myself with many of the issues that have been raised by the hon. Colleagues who have already debated, including the hon. Member for Lunte, except for his conclusion, and my hon. Colleagues who debated before me, such as the hon. Member of Parliament for Chilubi, who have raised serious and pertinent issues. The hon. Member for Lundazi, who seconded the report, mentioned something that I would like to pick up on.

She said that there is a need to streamline the borrowing processes, options, of course, I am now adding, the legislative framework, to enable entities such as the two whose borrowing we are looking at this morning, to be able to respond to the market dynamics out there.

Mr Speaker, the Zambia Industrial Commercial Bank (ZICB) is a Commercial Bank which, according to the Constitution, in the Articles cited by the hon. Member for Chilubi, Article 207, through to 211, is classified as a public body. This is because the Constitution refers to State organs and institutions. We have summarised or included it under that classification, which means that it is, therefore, subject to the public borrowing regulations, such as the Public Debt Management Act as well as the Public Financial Management Act. What that does to the entities is that they are always lagging behind their competitors out there in the market. Here we are, as the National Assembly, approving borrowing by this commercial entity, which is also subject to the Banking and Financial Services Act. Its competitiveness is something that we need to talk about when we are talking about streamlining the processes.

Mr Speaker, the submission by the people of Luena is that, maybe, this is one more reason we need to revisit the Constitution. This is because Articles 207 down to 211 of the Constitution, need to be clear whether every entity in which the Government has a share, is either a partial shareholder or 100 per cent shareholder, must be classified as a public body. This is probably the only way we are going to get the benefits out of these investments that are being made.

Mr Speaker, the Zambia National Building Society (ZNBS) is an entity that could easily attract investment from outside the country because the housing investment sector is a major target for pension funds throughout the world. However, because it is classified as a public body and, therefore, subject to all these rigidities, it cannot attract the necessary investment in order to sufficiently deal with our housing market demand in this country.

Mr Speaker, the submission from the people of Luena is that it is time that we looked at entities that are set up to operate as businesses, but in which the Government is a shareholder and allow them to operate as businesses like any other business. Even the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC) that we had hoped was going to drive the industrialisation of this country is still facing the same challenges. We cannot have entities that are supposed to be operating in the fast-moving economic environment – Allow me to divert a little bit, and give an example of Zamtel. Zamtel is competing with the likes of Airtel Zambia, Mobile Telephone Network (MTN) and other entities in this country. However, it is always very far behind these entities because of the rigidities that it has to comply with. Maybe, the time has come for us to delink these entities so that they are allowed to run as businesses. That way, the nation is going to derive maximum benefits from the investment in these entities.

Mr Speaker, on top of what my hon. Colleagues have already said, that is all we wanted to add to this important report, which we support.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank your Committee for the report that it presented.

Mr Speaker, let me begin by expressing my gratitude to your Committee for its favourable consideration of the 2025 Public Bodies External Borrowing Plan. The 2025 Public Bodies External Borrowing Plan outlines projected external borrowing by qualifying public bodies totalling US$65 million. Of this amount, the Zambia National Building Society (ZNBS) plans to borrow US$35 million while the Zambia Industrial Commercial Bank (ZICB) intends to borrow US$30 million. Both institutions will undertake this borrowing solely based on the financial strength of their respective balance sheets.

Mr Speaker, regarding what Hon. Kafwaya said, there is no guarantee at all from the Treasury to these two institutions. They are borrowing premised only on their balance sheets. So, all those points that the hon. Member raised regarding the risk to the State do not stand because that is not the case.

Mr Speaker, the financing proposed under the 2025 Public Bodies External Borrowing Plan aims to provide affordable financing to small and medium enterprises (SMEs) as well as small-scale farmers. Additionally, it seeks to influence the pricing of housing finance in the market.

Mr Speaker, while the 2025 Public Bodies External Borrowing Plan is not part of Central Government debt, it aligns with the objectives of the 2024-2026 Medium Term Debt Management Strategy. The borrowing prioritises minimal costs while maintaining a prudent approach to risk management.

Mr Speaker, importantly, what we are doing now is really a mark of transparency. This is the first time, as far as I can recall, for the Republic, that planned borrowing by public bodies has been brought to Parliament for hon. Members of Parliament to approve because in the past, this was not the case. For example, the Development Bank of Zambia (DBZ) borrowed money, but the time that happened, no one came to Parliament to present the proposal to borrow money and for approval. With the Zambia Railways (ZR), it was the same thing; no one came to Parliament. So, let us appreciate that we are improving things in terms of transparency.

Mr Speaker, I have noted your Committee’s concern; that while the Zambia Credit Guarantee Scheme (ZCGS) is a valuable initiative, its stringent requirements create significant barriers which result in higher lending rates for SMEs. I wish to inform the House that the ministry is committed to reviewing and streamlining the criteria for eligibility to ensure that the scheme remains effective while reducing barriers for SMEs.

Mr Speaker, I have also noted the concern of your Committee regarding the relatively high non-performing loan (NPL) ratio at the ZICB and the need for the ZICB to prioritise the implementation of effective strategies to reduce the NPL ratio. It was on the basis of this, that some colleagues asked, “Why is it borrowing when the non-performance loan ratio is high?” It was even alleged that the ratio increased because of the merger with Investrust Bank. I want to clarify this allegation. Regarding the merging of Investrust Bank and ZICB, you may recall that this is not the first time in the history of this country that two banks have been merged. A few years ago, during the reign of our colleagues in the Patriotic Front (PF), there was a merger. between Intermarket Discount House and ZICB. Therefore, it is not strange to merge institutions and it is not a sign of evil, because even under the PF Government, this is what happened and we supported it. Rather than the Intermarket Discount House closing business, with chaos and depositors losing money, the PF Government wisely decided to merge Intermarket Discount House with ZICB. Similarly, this Government also decided that Investrust Bank and ZICB must be merged. So, it is not a sign of any economic mismanagement, as it was alleged, because this is a normal thing, which our colleagues also did.

Mr Speaker, in fact, the loan ratio that was being spoken about is not high because Investrust had been taken over. Rather, it is high because of the amount in the loans that the ZICB took over from Intermarket Discount House, a decision that our colleagues made. Nevertheless, the loan ratio is certainly within the prudential ratio. Therefore, there is nothing to worry about.

Mr Speaker, I also acknowledge your Committee’s concern, that neither the ZNBS nor the ZICB pursued shareholder dilution through the issuance of preferential shares to attract additional investors. I wish to inform the House that the ministry is committed to undertaking reforms to attract strategic equity partners in the management of State-owned enterprises (SOEs). This will improve the capitalisation of SOEs, management practices and growth. Therefore, if at any point we come back to this House to seek support, I expect that that support will be provided.

Mr Speaker, I have also noted the concern about what is seen as the red tape in permitting SOEs to attract capital. Yes, we do recognize that, perhaps, we are disadvantaging them, but I believe, that can be addressed as we continue to seek to improve processes.

Mr Speaker, I think, I have actually answered most of the important points. Perhaps, the one that remains is the view that these two financing institutions have not been able to get funding cheaper because of the economic environment. I have said, over and over, that the economic environment in this country was compromised by two issues. Firstly, it was the unsustainable debt, which is very close to being resolved. Secondly, by the fact that half of the biggest industry in the country, namely mining, had been closed for four years. Therefore, Zambia being a mining country, it followed that business in general suffered. I am very happy that the economic environment is certainly steadily improving because the mining issues have been resolved. At the moment, there is a lot of investment taking place in the mining sector. Therefore, the environment certainly has been sorted out, and many things will fall in place.

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, let me, once again, thank the House for supporting the 2025 Public Bodies External Borrowing Plan. As a ministry, we will continue to update the House on the implementation of the Public Bodies External Borrowing Plans through the performance reports that are submitted on a bi-annual basis. Additionally, we remain committed to ensuring that all borrowing is undertaken in line with the provisions of the Public Debt Management Act.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chaatila: Mr Speaker, let me thank the hon. Members who have debated the Motion on this report, that is: Hon. Kang’ombe, Hon. Kafwaya, Hon. Kampyongo, Hon. Fube and Hon. Anakoka. I am also grateful for the highlights that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has given.

Mr Speaker, Hon. Kang’ombe was, in fact, asking the chairperson to add a bit to the report. He indicated that he would have loved to see the schedules of repayment being attached to this plan. This is just a process in which we indicate the intention to borrow. In doing so, usually, the Committee looks at the key areas like the return-on-investments (ROI), and how it it at the particular time and, maybe, the capital adequacy ratios. Those are the ratios we would want to look at. Hon. Kampyongo also brought out the issues of the non-performing loans (NPL) ratio and the current liabilities. So, this was a summary, in terms of what we see at these banks. However, there is another process. If the hon. Members remember, we requested that going forward, we would want to see where the debt has been contracted, then at the time of the contraction of the debt, we would want to sit as a Committee and look at the conditions in detail. I want to believe that things such as the repayment schedules will arise at that point.

Mr Speaker, the other point raised had to do with the capacity to borrow of the targeted borrowers. We were informed that the borrowers are predominantly civil servants, especially for mortgages. So, one is assured that there is some level of security in terms of how the borrowing will be done.

Mr Speaker, the other issue was the categories of the 1,325 mortgages, which gives an average of about K570,000 per borrower. When we engaged the two institutions, they indicated that the amounts are targeted at low-cost housing and that most civil servants are situated in semi-rural areas where the cost of materials is not as high as in towns such as Lusaka. Some of them borrow to buy building materials. So, Hon. Kang’ombe, we looked at that.

Mr Speaker, Hon. Kafwaya was lamenting that this particular plan was not brought together with the Annual Borrowing Plan. The hon. Member may wish to note that this is totally different. There is no connection between the Annual Borrowing Plan as provided for in the Public Debt Management Act, Section 12, that highlights the areas where the Ministry of Finance and National Planning would borrow, such as to finance the Government Budget deficit, which he did through the Annual Borrowing Plan.

Mr Speaker, the Public Debt Management Act, Section 12(d), gives the Minister the mandate to provide, if need be, a loan to a public body. So, the two are completely different; there is no relationship between the Annual Borrowing Plan and what the hon. Minister has brought before the House.

Mr Speaker, I thought I needed to highlight those few points because the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has adequately addressed the other issues.

Mr Speaker, at this point, it is my honour and privilege to just thank the hon. Members of the Committee for the work they did. I also wish to thank the hon. Members of the House because, as you can see, they are all in support of the two institutions' intention to borrow externally.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I wish to thank you for giving me an opportunity to serve as chairperson of the Planning and Budgeting Committee.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Question put and agreed to.

MOTION OF SUPPLY

(Debate resumed)

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Mr Speaker, it is good for me to make a comment on the hon. Minister’s Budget Speech for 2025. I will comment on the content on page 5, which I will link to the content on page 30 and later comment on the content on page 26.

Mr Speaker, on page 5, the hon. Minister said: “To build economic resilience and improve the livelihood of the people, the Government has set the following macroeconomic objectives for 2025.” He then listed the objectives from (a) to (f.). I will, however, comment on part (e), where he says: “Reduce the fiscal deficit to 3.1 per cent of the gross domestic product (GDP)”. It is the target of the hon. Minister to reduce the fiscal deficit to 3.1 per cent.

Mr Speaker, on page 30, the hon. Minister talked about gross financing. I will get back to this later because, for me, this is net financing, although it is labelled “Gross Financing”. Under gross financing, we have K34.7 billion, representing 16 per cent share of the 2025 Budget and 4.3 per cent share of the GDP. My question to the hon. Minister is: If his target, as indicated in this book, is to reduce the fiscal deficit to 3.1 per cent of the GDP, why is what he is calling “Net Financing” at 4.3 per cent of the GDP? I think that this is an inconsistency.

Mr Speaker, I move on to page 26, under “General Public Services”. The hon. Minister has provided K1.4 billion as Equalisation Fund. I compared that amount to the K2 billion that he has given for the Cash-for-Work programme. When we compare the two items; the Cash-for-Work programme and the Equalisation Fund, the amount for the Cash-for-Work programme has been increased. What is he they saying to the people? Is he really considering development or is he considering something else?

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has increased the amount of the Compensation Fund to K772 million from the previous K500 million. From the time the United Party for National Development (UPND) came into power, only UPND cadres and leaders have been compensated through consent judgments.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, would the hon. Minister confirm that even the K772 million will just go to UPND cadres and leaders. Can we qualify that it is UPND members' money so that it is clear that no Zambian will have anything to do with these compensations.

Mr Speaker, allow me to move on to health, and I would like to be sober here. I observe –

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised by the hon. Minister of Information and Media.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity you have given me to raise a point of order. As you know, I rarely rise on points of order. When I do, there must be compelling and excruciating circumstances.

Hon. Opposition Members interjected.

Mr Mweetwa: You are happy because your seats were not declared vacant.

Laughter

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I rise in terms of Standing Order No.71, on content of speech and how factual statements or submissions made before this august House must be. Is the hon. Member for Lunte in order to make such startling and hair-raising statements without substantiating the same? He has stated that from the time the United Party for National Development (UPND) came into office, in terms of compensations, only UPND members have been compensated, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Andeleki!

Mr Mweetwa: … without adducing such evidence –

Interruptions

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, you see, this kind of behaviour, is why the Tonse Alliance is going nowhere.

Laughter

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I need your serious ruling because this is a House of records and people out there may take the misleading and mischievous statement made by hon. Member for Lunte as gospel truth.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Lunte is completely out of order.

Laughter

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: He is completely out of order. This House is not a House of assertions. You must be factual at all times, and talk from a verified point of view. So, to make presumptions that whoever is being compensated or the would-be person to be compensated is a United Party for National Development (UPND) member without proper facts should not be encouraged in this House. We should, at all times, be factual.

So, the hon. Member for Lunte is completely out of order.

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister, Mr Frank Tayali, Lawyer, Martha Mushipe; and the Mukuni family –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, I have guided you.

Interruptions

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, I would like to take the hon. Minister to the content under Social Protection. The hon. Minster has provided K16 billion to protect people. Social protection covers poverty, unemployment and disability. That is noble, but the amount he has provided is the highest I have seen since I came to this House. On one hand, the hon. Minister may be commended for increasing the amount, but on the other, he should take this amount to the Cabinet and tell his colleagues that he has increased the amount because they have created more poverty than any other Government before.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya: Let him go and tell his colleagues that they have created more unemployment than any other Government before them, and that is why he is increasing the amount of social protection. Unfortunately, it is leading to unsustainability, and that is why he is unable to explain the fiscal deficit properly. On one hand, he says that his target is to reduce the deficit to 3.1 per cent of the GDP, yet he has actually increased it to over 4 per cent. In fact, it is more than that because what he is calling “Gross Financing” is Net Financing.

Mr Speaker, I would like to end at the hon. Minister’s provision under health. Here, I am appealing to the hon. Minister that too many people are dying of cancer in this country. The UPND Government has decommissioned the radiotherapy equipment at the Cancer Diseases Hospital without informing the people. People around the country think that they can come to the Cancer Diseases Hospital and receive radiation treatment when, in fact, the UPND decommissioned all the equipment.

Mr Speaker, I urge the UPND Government to consider buying a Linear Accelerator (LINAC), Cobalt-60 (Co-60) and all other units of radiotherapy so that cancer patients in this country can receive a combination of radiotherapy and chemotherapeutic treatment, so that the needless cancer deaths we are experiencing right now can be reduced.

Mr Speaker, I would like to conclude my contribution by encouraging the hon. Minister to ensure that the credibility of this Budget is upheld. I say so because even as we were deliberating in the Committees, people were saying “… will come through a Supplementary Budget.” It is impossible, for the Government to be talking about a Supplementary Budget even before the Budget we are considering is approved. It is impossible!

Ms Mulenga: Imagine, abene babufi!

Mr Kafwaya: That speaks directly to the image of credibility and if the hon. Minister does not care too much to consider those issues, his credibility is at stake. I encourage him to uphold the credibility of the 2025 Budget in the name of Jesus.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga): Mr Speaker, shukran. It means ‘thank you’ in Arabic.

Mr Speaker, the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for the 2025 Budget were prepared under very difficult conditions, in the sense that we were coming from a very harsh drought that created an energy deficit and, therefore, we were faced with low economic production. However, I want to give accolades to the Executive for coming up with instruments that have provided resilience against hunger and the vagaries that we have faced.

Mr Speaker, I want to say that the Government devised a number of instruments in response to the drought, such as the Cash-for-Work programme and Enhanced Social Cash Transfer (SCT). Everybody is benefiting from the Cash-for-Work programme, without regard to political parties or where one is coming from. The programme is implemented countrywide, without leaving anyone behind.

Hon. Member: Short or tall!

Mr Samakayi: Yes, short or tall.

Mr Speaker, I also want to say that compensation is given to the people who were abused. When one is arrested, it means that one stole. I think that there is equity in the exercise of authority by the people who are leading us.

Mr Speaker, I now move to the issue of the enhanced Constituency Development Fund (CDF). It is a good gesture that the CDF has been increased. However, one thing that comes to mind is that there are many constituencies that are so big, that they are not really benefitting from the CDF as much as smaller constituencies do. I have in mind constituencies like Nyimba, Mwinilunga, Kalulushi, Chililabombwe, Kafue, Kasempa, Kapiri Mposhi and Chilubi Island in the Northern Province. These are big constituencies, which are distributed across the country. I think that it is important that the Government looks at delimitation so that the constituencies that I have mentioned could also benefit from the enhanced CDF.

Mr Speaker, I now move on to infrastructure in the North-Western Province. I want to thank the Government for using one of the instruments that governments worldwide use to mobilise resources from the private sector: private-public partnerships (PPPs). This partnership has been applied in the construction of roads such as the Solwezi/Kipushi Road, Lumwana/Kambimba Road and Mutanda/Kasempa/Kaoma Road. We are very grateful for that. However, the people of the North-Western Province would also want to benefit from the Budget as indicated in the Yellow Book. They were expecting that as the hon. Minister was reading the Budget, the issue of the Solwezi/Mwinilunga/Jimbe Road would be resolved. We did not hear him mention that road and some of the infrastructure that the people of the North-Western Province want. Perhaps, in his response, he will be able to explain to the people of the North-Western Province why some of the infrastructure that they require so much is not reflected in the Yellow Book or in the Budget.

Mr Speaker, I want to say that we, the people of Mwinilunga, are very grateful to the Government because in the next two weeks, we will be opening Kasenseli Gold Mine. We are also grateful that the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government is acting responsibly in ensuring that whatever infrastructure was not completed by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, it takes over and completes those projects. I have in mind the completion of the Mwinilunga District Hospital and, for that, we are very grateful to the Government. I also want to mention here, on the Floor of this House, that there are three contractors working on the three feeder roads in Mwinilunga Constituency, and the people of Mwinilunga are very grateful.

Mr Speaker, it is our nature in Mwinilunga to express ourselves. Where we are happy, we say it out and where we are not, we point it out. We are happy with the roads and the work that is being done, but we are not happy with the main road from Solwezi to Mwinilunga and Jimbe. Therefore, I ask the hon. Minister to come out on this issue and explain to us.

Mr Speaker, the other issue that I want to mention is that of Lumwana and Kalumbila. We want Lumwana to stand on its own as a district and also Kalumbila to be a district on its own. There are districts that are very close to each other on the Copperbelt.

Mr Kampyongo indicated to raise a point of order.

Mr Samakayi: For example, there are Kalulushi, Kitwe, Chingola and Chililabombwe, which are very close to one another.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kampyongo left the Assembly Chamber.

Ms Mulenga: Hear, hear!

Job well done.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mwiimbu, SC.): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1234 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 12^th November, 2024.

______________

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