Thursday, 17^thOctober, 2024

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

________

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER

PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM MAPALO HOPE SCHOOL, LUSAKA DISTRICT

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence in the Public Gallery of pupils and teachers from Mapalo Hope School, Lusaka District.

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors in our midst.

I thank you.

_______

URGENT MATTERS WITHOUT NOTICE

MR SIMUMBA, HON. MEMBER FOR NAKONDE, ON MR CHIKOTE, THE HON. MINISTER OF ENERGY, ON LOAD-SHEDDING OF HEALTH INSTITUTIONS

Mr Simumba (Nakonde): Mr Speaker, the matter I wish to raise is directed at the hon. Minister of Energy.

Mr Speaker, you recall that there was a presidential directive that no health institution should be load-shed. I do not know why the hon. Minister is not complying with the directive. In Nakonde, every day our health institutions like Wulongo District Hospital are always load-shed. So, when families lose their loved ones, they are forced to bury them the second day. You know the economic challenges that this Government has put us in. There is a lot of –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, let me guide you.

Mr Simumba resumed his seat.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Yesterday, a similar matter was raised and heavily debated on the Floor of the House. However, you are privileged so you can file a question and it will be dealt with. Thank you.

MR MUNIR ZULU, HON. MEMBER FOR LUMEZI, ON MS KASUNE, THE HON. MINISTER OF JUSTICE, ON A UNITED PARTY FOR NATIONAL DEVELOPMENT (UPND) BUSINESSMAN

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Mr Speaker, my Urgent Matter Without Notice is directed at the hon. Minister of Justice.

Mr Speaker, of late this country has witnessed one citizen, whom others are calling a businessman, but as a matter of fact, he is a member of the Ruling Party, the United Party for National Development (UPND). His name is Moses Kalonde. He is ever at East Park Mall, targeting prominent personalities. This is the man who has been reporting all politicians, hon. Members of Parliament, members of the bench, the judges, on either seditious practices or misconduct. One person –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, resume your seat.

Let me guide.

Mr Munir Zulu resumed his seat.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You are aware that this House has rules. We do not debate private individuals who cannot defend themselves. Our rules are quite clear. So, find other avenues other than bringing that matter on the Floor of the House.

We may proceed.

MR MUMBA, HON. MEMBER FOR KANTANSHI, ON DR MUSOKOTWANE, THE HON. MINISTER OF FINANCE AND NATIONAL PLANNING, ON THE BUDGET

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, my matter is directed at the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Mr Speaker, this honourable House has the responsibility of appropriating the Budget. One of the main components of the Budget is revenue. That should be announced by the Government. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning allocates the resources that will be spent so that our economy continues to function, and so that there is procurement of goods and services.

Mr Speaker, there is a screaming headline today that, the Government has not been able to recover close to K1 billion non-tax revenue. If this money is not made available, the Government will not be able to properly execute its 2024 Budget. What is worrying is that those resources were supposed to be in Control 99 so that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning could spend them. Various Government institutions have been holding on to those resources. My concern is, we are entitled to know the immediate measures that the Government will put in place to ensure that those resources are available for the Budget to be executed, or for the Government to be able to carry out the responsibilities it is meant to carry out. 

Mr Speaker, I seek your indulgence as to what the immediate steps that the Government is going to take are. That report was made available to the hon. Minister on 30^th June, but three months on, the Government has not yet acted.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Thank you, hon. Member. That question is very important. File an urgent question and it will be addressed.

We make progress.

________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

PAYMENT OF TERMINAL BENEFITS

37. Mr Chinkuli (Kanyama) asked the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning when the Government will pay terminal benefits to the twelve former employees of the Zambia Pork Products Limited, whose employment was terminated in 2001, following the privatisation of the company.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Mr Speaker, the claim of outstanding terminal benefits to the twelve employees from the Zambia Pork Products Limited as submitted by Hon. Chinkuli is well noted by the Treasury.

Mr Speaker, the House may wish to note that the referenced claim is from twenty-three years ago. We have reviewed our records at the Treasury, and wish to report that we have not established any record of an outstanding claim to twelve former Zambia Pork Products Limited employees.

Mr Speaker, I, therefore, wish to request the hon. Member of Parliament for Kanyama to furnish us with more details to enable the Treasury do the necessary review and follow-up.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chinkuli: Mr Speaker, thank you so much. I also thank the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. His guidance is well taken, and I will revert to you.

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, for the sake of the people listening, when privatisation takes place, a person or private entity takes over a Government company. When that happens, who is responsible for paying the benefits of the individuals who used to work for the privatised company? This question is for the sake of the people who are listening out there. Roughly, how should the process be?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, there is no one formula for dealing with benefits of former employees. For example, if a company is sold, the issue of benefits would depend on the sale agreement. If the sale agreement says that the new owner takes over the liability of paying former employees who are owed, in that case, the new owner becomes responsible for that. In another case, the sale agreement may say that, as a new owner, you are exonerated from all employee liabilities and a certain institution or the Government will take over. In that case, the institution that is cited to be responsible henceforth becomes responsible.

Mr Speaker, there are also cases where parastatal organisations go under liquidation. In such cases, it becomes the responsibility of the liquidation manager to pay the benefits to the former employees. The liquidation manager would sell whatever assets of the company remain and use that money to pay the benefits. Finally, of course, despite what I have said, if a former employee was a contributor to a pension scheme, that still remains viable. There is nothing stopping that former employee from claiming his or her right to that pension arrangement.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

PERENNIAL FLOODING PROBLEM IN LUSAKA

39. Mr Kolala (Lufubu) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development what measures the Government is taking to permanently resolve the perennial flooding problem during the rainy season in Lusaka District.

Laughter

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Mr Speaker, the Government is taking the following measures to resolve the perennial flooding problem during the rainy season in Lusaka District:

(a) development of 500 m stormwater drainages around Arcades Shopping Mall area to Katimamulilo Road;

(b) development of 4 km stormwater drainage along Kalusha Bwalya Road in Kanyama;

(c) development of a 4.5 km stormwater drainage along Lady Diana area in Kanyama; and

(d) development of a 400 km stormwater drainage on the part of the 70/70 Road in Kanyama.

Mr Speaker, hon. Members of the House may also wish to know that the stormwater drainage works in Kanyama are being undertaken under the squatter settlement and upgrading programme.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kolala: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister assuring us that those measures that the Government is implementing will make a difference when it comes to floods in Lusaka when the rainy season comes?

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I am certain beyond reasonable doubt that we are going to see an improvement in the drainage systems that successive Governments have ignored over the past sixty years. Just to give some comfort to my hon. Colleague, I will give the details of the works that we have done so far. A company called Kailjee Construction Limited has been contracted to construct a drainage at Arcades Shopping Mall. So far, the cost of this work is K16,477,386.58. The project commenced in July 2024 and has a duration of seven months. We have had slight challenges with funding, but I am glad to say that as of two days ago, the ministry received money from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. What is left is to join the drainage from Cosmic Executive Lodge, which is around here and Arcades Shopping Mall, to Katimamulilo Road to wash into Ngwerere River. So, very soon people will see the Great East Road cut through to provide for that drainage and the interlink. What has caused the delay to complete that work is, we have been working with ZESCO Limited as well as the Lusaka Water and Sanitation Company (LWSC) to share with us the water pipe network so that the excavation does not disturb the pipes. Similarly, we have been waiting to get a report from ZESCO Limited to show us its underground cables so that we do not cause any disturbance to the supply of electricity during the excavation.

Mr Speaker, on the Lady Diana and Kalusha Bwalya Road drainages, I wish to let the House know that works on the targeted 4.5 km and 4 km respectively have commenced, with rock blasting on the whole targeted length. There is 100 per cent concrete lining of the base and 26 per cent of the side walls has been done. Installation of culverts on these two drainages has also been done and backfilling is on course. On the 70/70 Road, only 400 m has been excavated and concrete lining of the excavated drainage is happening right now.

Mr Speaker, with the details I have given, I envisage that people will see a lot of improvement. These are just but a few of the projects that the Government has started working on in the most critical areas. A journey of a million miles starts with one step. The Government has taken this giant step to control the water and drainage issue in Lusaka City. I would like to assure the House that more work will be done in this regard. I am quite certain that by the time posterity comes to judge the United Party for National Development (UPND), the UPND Government will be known as the Government that dealt with the long-standing problem of flooding within three years after we took office. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, I appreciate the Cash for Work programme that the Government has set up. I have seen some drainages being unblocked, especially in my constituency.

Mr Speaker, the response that the hon. Minister has given is mainly centered on Kanyama Constituency, yet the flooding problem is in the entire Lusaka District. Kabwata Constituency is one of the constituencies that always has flooding. In places like Kamwala South, you cannot even walk during the rainy season. I want the hon. Minister to explain to the people of Kabwata so that they understand what measures the Government intends to put in place to minimise flooding in Kabwata Constituency, just like it is being done in Kanyama Constituency.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I want my hon. Colleague to know that we are using Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs. Kanyama is an unplanned settlement that has been overwhelmed due to the influx of our citizens there. Kabwata is a planned settlement, and because it is a planned settlement, it has enough drainage infrastructure. However, that infrastructure had been blocked. Drainages do not exist in Kanyama. Kanyama simply has none. Kabwata experiences flooding as a result of two major things. One is the indiscriminate disposal of rubbish in the drainages, including plastic. Two is because of what used to happen before, that we are trying to reverse now, which is that people were not respecting planning and building authority from local councils. The hon. Member will recall that last year, when the President went to Kabwata, we found wall fences that were built around drainages, thereby creating floods in people’s homes. To resolve that, we begun the process of giving notice to demolish wall fences that should not be where they are. Again, our citizens said, “These are the devil’s cousins. They are now breaking people’s walls.” A clear example I can give is Lusaka Central. Some people created plots on a road and put a wall fence on a drainage in Mass Media. When we broke that house, again, we were “the Devil’s cousin.” This is a huge problem. I want to take advantage of this question to say to our citizens, please, get planning and development permission from the council. We will not shy away from breaking your properties if you continue doing business as before because the result of indiscriminately building walls and disposing of garbage in drainages is too ghastly to contemplate. When flooding begins, the chain reaction is too much; we get cholera and other waterborne diseases. So, each time we try to correct things, it must be borne in mind that we are trying to circumvent a disaster. The disaster I am speaking about at this moment is exactly what we went through last year. Part of the reason cholera hit us last year is exactly what we are talking about. That is why we have concentrated on Kabwata. Next, we are going to George Compound, Kamwala, and Mandevu, which are more or less unplanned settlements. Kabwata is also a priority, but I want the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwata to understand that the other locations are in dire need of immediate corrective measures than Kabwata.

Mr Speaker, finally, you know that as a result of the Drought Response Plan, and courtesy of this House, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning came to ask for a Budget variation to provide for people to do public works. That is the silver lining in the dark cloud that we are using to unblock the same drainages. I am sure, the hon. Member is seeing women, men, boys and girls working every day unblocking drainages and doing other public works in order to circumvent communicable diseases once again.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Chewe(Lubansenshi):Mr Speaker, the suffering of the people of Kanyama is the same as that of the good people of Lubansenshi. The throwing of waste products irresponsibly in Kanyama is the same almost everywhere else in the country. The hon. Minister indicated that money was released yesterday for works. The rainy season is about to commence. Is the hon. Minister able to consider a multisectoral approach to speed up the process of dealing with the problem of flooding? Is the ministry considering engaging the Zambia National Service (ZNS) and other people to support the contractor working on the drainages, looking at the time remaining?

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I am slightly at sea on the last bit of the question from the hon. Member for Lubansenshi, where he said, “time remaining.” I am not sure the world is coming to an end any time soon. I also said that a journey of a million miles starts with one step. We begun the step of correcting what successive Governments from 1964, or maybe to be fair, from the 1970s when the urban drift became rampant, failed to do. The Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) and the Patriotic Front (PF) ignored these things. The hon. Member said that the suffering of the people in Kanyama is the same as the suffering of the people of Lubansenshi. I am also not certain of that. That, to me, is like comparing oranges and lemons or apples because there is no way under the sun you can compare the squalor in Kanyama and George Compound to the fresh air that the people of Lubansenshi enjoy. There is no contamination that you can call alarming in Lubansenshi, not even in Mazabuka where I come from, which is a bigger town. You cannot compare Lubansenshi with Kanyama. For all you care, maybe the population of Kanyama alone, not just registered voters, is ten times the entire population of Lubansenshi District. So, it is unfair to compare the challenges of Lubansenshi with that of Kanyama. I would like to know how many cases of cholera have been recorded in Lubansenshi for my hon. Colleague and friend to compare Lubansenshi and Kanyama and say that the suffering of the people of Lubansenshi is the same as the suffering of the people of Kanyama. It is good for people in his constituency to hear that he is fighting for them, but please, let him fight battles that are worth fighting for. This particular issue is in the realm of urban and regional planning. I want to take advantage of this question, once again, to indicate that those in the upcoming towns, the developing towns, please, respect the regional urban planning law that exists because fifty years from today, if the law is not respected, those towns will be like Kanyama.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chinkuli: Mr Speaker, allow me to take this opportunity to thank the Government for what it is doing in Kanyama, something that has never been done there. As you may be aware, Kanyama has been given funds to upgrade the drainage system. I can attest to the fact that one drainage is being worked on, like the hon. Minister has explained. This is the main drainage along Kalusha Bwalya Road. I want to know from the hon. Minister if a contractor has been identified to work on the drainage around Lady Diana area. That area is so problematic. That drainage is meant to carry water that settles in Kanyama itself to Chinika, Kanyama Dam and 70/70 Road. I wish to find out if the contractor to work on that drainage has been selected.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, to be very frank, I have been caught on the backfoot with that question. I am very far away from contractors. I know, I get reports on my desk, but I will have to check for the hon. Member if a contractor has been identified for the scope of work that he has described. I invite the hon. Member to come to my office the way he always does. For fear of giving the wrong answer, I am not certain on how far we have gone to take the water to the areas in Chinika that he has described.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Malambo (Magoye): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the work he is doing in Kanyama. However, I want to know what is happening on Thabo Mbeki Road regarding the canal carrying what seems to be sewerage. What measure is the Government putting in place to ensure that the situation is corrected, because the odour coming out of that area is very bad, and it may be a danger to the people around the area.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, fortunately, I went to inspect the source of the effluent that the hon. Member is talking about. It is on Nangwenya Road, just as you cross the road toward the University of Zambia (UNZA) on the right hand side. I must say that that falls under the realm of my hon. Colleague, the Minister of Water Development and Sanitation. He is the one who is responsible for that.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Fortunately, we are one Cabinet and I am equal to the task of answering the hon. Member. 

Mr Speaker, the effluent in the drainage on Thabo Mbeki Road to Arcades Shopping Mall is extremely offensive. At one point, when the President was at Bonanza commissioning something, I got a call from the proprietor of East Park Mall. That effluent was at its worst. He told me that he could not get hold of my hon. Colleague. So, he requested me to go and see for myself, and I did go to see for myself. It turned out that the source of the effluent is the University of Zambia (UNZA) Great East Road Campus. The effluent happens when the campus pumps out its sewer system. The pressure becomes too much and the effluent flows starts to flow into the stormwater drainage, and it becomes a river of fecal matter flowing toward Arcades Shopping Mall. I am sure, even hon. Members of Parliament are aware of the situation because most of them reside around that area. They know what I am talking about, that the effluent is too much. Today, we had a meeting with the management of Arcades Shopping Mall, East Park Mall and ZESCO Limited. As I answered in the first part of the question, we are trying to connect the drainage across Great East Road, and that matter came on the table for discussion. We agreed that the people from the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation, UNZA management, Arcades Shopping Mall, and the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development must put their heads together to resolve the matter permanently.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Mr Speaker, I want us to correct the narrative created by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kanyama and the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development. I know, the question is about Lusaka, but places like Nyimba have areas where vehicles cannot pass –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, the question is specific to Lusaka District.

Mr Menyani Zulu: Mr Speaker, money has been released by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. Is the money specifically for Kanyama or Lusaka District, or is it for all contractors across the country? Kanyama may take advantage of the situation and divert all the money to itself.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning releases money to line ministries via the National Road Fund Agency (NRFA) periodically. For the particular subject at hand, I can confirm that the money for the urban renewal of Kanyama was released two or three months ago, and it was specifically for the project I outlined in my answers. The hon. Member’s question is about other places. I am afraid the target for the urban renewal project is to avoid outbreaks like cholera, which we suffered last year. The money is specifically for Lusaka. I can also confirm that, as a ministry we tried to work on all three compounds at a go. However, because of budgetary constraints, we looked at the locations that required urgent attention the most. Kanyama was one of them. Like I said earlier, our desire is to work on George Compound, Lilanda, and Mandevu. Then, if resources permit, we can start working on these areas on a systematic basis. For now, the money that was released is for the Kanyama Urban Renewal Project.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kolala: Mr Speaker, I am worried. I must say, the hon. Minister could be the first hon. Minister facilitating the construction of drainages in Kanyama, but from his explanation, there is no proper plan on where the water from Kanyama will go. We know where the drainage at Arcades Shopping Mall will throw the water. Kanyama is on flat land so I expected the full plan to see whether the water from the drainage in Kanyama will go into a dam that will be created somewhere, but it is not there. The situation might even make us speculate that those drainages that will be created will just be filled with water and become a death trap to the people of that area. Is there a plan to see to it that water is drained and taken where it is supposed to be taken?

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I get the feeling that maybe, there is a leakage about the deliberations that we normally have in our inter-ministerial committee meetings regarding this problem. Indeed, this question was sent to my ministry. It was asked by Her Honour the Vice-President. The question was: So, where is the Kalusha Bwalya Drainage going to spill the water? Will there not be a backlash? Where is the Lady Diana Drainage going to feed into? We agreed that we are going to provide for that as we go along. We are going to provide reservoirs of water, but that is not in the immediate term; it is in the mid-term. The long-term plan is, funds permitting, having big dams where water can be stored for use in arid times.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

NATIONAL LAND TITLING PROGRAMME

40. Mr Katambo (Masaiti) asked the Minister of Lands and Natural Resources:

(a)        when the National Land Titling Programme commenced;

(b)        how many title deeds under the programme had been issued from inception to April 2024;

(c)        whether there are any plans to extend the programme to all the 156 Parliamentary Constituencies; 

(d)        if there are no such plans, why; and

(e)        whether there are any plans to revise the titling fees so as to make them affordable.

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu, SC) (on behalf of the Minister of Lands and Natural Resources (Mrs Masebo)): Mr Speaker, the National Land Titling Programme commenced in September 2020.

Mr Speaker, as at the end of April 2024, a total number of 113,470 title deeds were issued under the programme.

 Mr Speaker, there are plans to extend the programme to all provinces only within state land.

Mr Speaker, given the answer in part (c) of the question, part (d) falls off.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources has plans to propose the revision of titling fees so as to make them affordable.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, the response from the Acting hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resource indicates that in the last four years, a number of titles have been processed. The Acting hon. Minister may be aware that in certain parts of the country, which includes Kamfinsa Constituency, Kitwe, individuals paid the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources under the old system to process their titles. Then, a new system was introduced. A private entity was engaged by the ministry to process titles. I think, the name of the entity is Medici. That company is now requesting the same residents to pay again for an exercise that they already paid for. What is the ministry doing to address that complaint from the people who already paid to have their titles processed? The ministry has engaged a private company to undertake survey works on its behalf. So, it is requesting the same property owners to pay again for the same thing.

Mr Mwiimbu, SC: Mr Speaker, I just want to state that I have taken note of the issues that the hon. Member of Parliament for Kamfinsa has raised. We will take into account the issues and then revert to him.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Mr Speaker, from the number of titles processed that the hon. Minister talked about, I would like to know whether houses from Forest No. 27 are included. When is the Government going to demolish those houses? I am aware that some United Party for National Development (UPND) hon. Members of Parliament also have houses in Forest No. 27. When is the Government going to demolish the houses in Forest No. 27?

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker:  Order, hon. Member!

Mr Mwiimbu, SC: Mr Speaker, I know what he is trying to say. I would like to offer him a substantial amount of money to go and demolish the house that he is referring to.

Mr Speaker, I am aware of the challenges pertaining to the issuance of title deeds in the country. We are trying everything possible to ensure that members of the public who want to get title deeds get them. The process is slow, but we are doing everything possible to ensure that the system improves.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, the ministry has had targets. In 2023, it targeted to issue 250,000 title deeds. In 2024, the ministry targeted to issue 250,000 title deeds again, but it is failing to meet the targets. What measures is the ministry putting in place in order to reach the set targets? For instance, the ministry has targeted to issue 50,000 title deeds in 2025. How is the ministry going to manage those targets?

Mr Mwiimbu, SC: Mr Speaker, I would like to assure my hon. Colleague the Member of Parliament for Masaiti and the nation as a whole that, we are reviewing the issue of titling in this country. It is not just members of the public who are being denied the right to own land but the Government itself is failing to get revenue. The issue is under consideration. Very soon, we will announce what we intend to do. There will be a comprehensive programme not only for titling but also for land rates. As you may be aware, land rates in this country are very high. As a result, members of the public are not paying. So, we are reviewing the whole process. We will come back and announce the processes we are dealing with.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, has the ministry developed titling strategies, for example, in percentage terms, regarding what percentage of title deeds processed are supposed to be for women, youths, and the rest. I say so because there is a need for us to know how many youths or women in percentage terms have benefited from the titling programme as of April 2024.

Mr Mwiimbu, SC: Mr Speaker, the question that has been raised by my hon. Colleague is a new question. If he would like me to provide an answer, let him file a question and I will respond appropriately.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

NANGWESHI GOVERNMENT GUEST HOUSE REHABILITATION

41. Mr Mandandi (Sioma) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

(a) whether the Government has any plans to rehabilitate Nangweshi Government Guest House in Sioma District;

(b) if so, when the plans will be implemented;

(c) what the estimated cost of the rehabilitation, is;

(d) what the estimated timeframe for the completion of the project, is; and

(e) f there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Mr Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to rehabilitate Nangweshi Government Guest House in Sioma.

Mr Speaker, plans will be undertaken in future once the Government is ready to undertake the project. The estimated cost will be known once the project is approved, designs are prepared and the bill of quantity (BoQ) is estimated.

Mr Speaker, the estimated timeframe of the project will be known once a contractor has been procured for the project.

Mr Speaker, Nangweshi Government Guest House in Sioma cannot be rehabilitated in its current state as the structural integrity of the walls, roof, floor and foundation are weak.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

STALLED CONSTRUCTION OF NTUMPA UNIVERSITY IN LUKASHYA

42. Mr Chisanga (Lukashya) asked the Minister of Education:

(a) why the construction of Ntumpa University in Lukashya Parliamentary Constituency has stalled; 

(b) when the works will resume;

(c) what the estimated cost of the project is;

(d) what the timeframe of the completion of the project is; and

(e) whether the Government will maintain the same contractor for the remaining works

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi) on behalf of the Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima)): Mr Speaker, the construction of Ntumpa University in Lukashya Parliamentary Constituency has stalled because the financing agreement was cancelled due to the fiscal constraints that the project experienced. The Government, through the Ministry of Education, is in the process of terminating the contract for the project. 

Mr Speaker, the works will resume when a new contract is signed and funds are secured. The estimated cost of the project will be determined after a needs assessment is concluded and a new contract is signed, ensuring a transparent and accountable financial planning process.

Mr Speaker, the timeframe of the completion of the project will only be established once the needs assessment is concluded. However, the engineers’ estimated completion period is within thirty-six months.

Mr Speaker, the contractor to complete the remaining works will only be known once the process of re-engaging a new contractor is concluded.

I thank you, Mr Speaker. 

Mr Chisanga: Mr Speaker, considering that the construction of Ntumpa University was a strategic response to climate change, to ensure that we take advantage of the northern enclave in maximising agricultural potential, is the Government not going to help the nation by prioritising the mobilisation of resources so that we complete the project, considering that about US$35 million was spent on the designs and mobilisation of the contractor?

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, maybe, let me give the context to this particular project. The contract was for the design and building of FTJ Chiluba University in Mansa and Ntumpa University in Kasama. The estimated contract sum, which is the total for the two universities, was US$225 million. The consortium contractor was China Energy Engineering Group Hunan Electric Power Construction Company Limited. So far, US$33,750,000 has been paid as advance payment. The initial contract period was 104 weeks. The contract date for that particular contract was 8^th August, 2017. Now, due to the increasing cost of construction materials and the depreciation of the Kwacha against major currencies, the contractors requested an upward price adjustment to their contracts. After seeking legal guidance from the Attorney-General, the Ministry of Education was advised to cancel the contract, as the proposed second price adjustment would surpass the 25 per cent variation limit set by the Zambia Public Procurement Authority (ZPPA). Acting on this advice, the ministry moved forward with the contract cancellations and the final accounts were prepared. The Government remains committed to ensuring that these infrastructure projects are completed on time to meet the education sector’s needs, including what the hon. Member has mentioned, that is, agriculture, especially in the Northern Province where there are good conditions for agriculture.

Mr Speaker, the Government is committed to addressing the gaps in higher education infrastructure. As part of this commitment, the Government has resolved to construct a university in each province that lacks one. That is a clear policy. The Northern Province lacks one. I know, Muchinga Province has certain facilities. King Lewanika University in the Western Province, FTJ Chiluba University and Ntumpa University will be completed under the same Cabinet directive and policy that I have just mentioned.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Education, which I represent at this moment, the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, which I also represent at the moment, and of course the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, will collaboratively work on the necessary modalities to implement the plan. These efforts are aimed at expanding access to higher education and strengthening the capacity of the education system in all provinces.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe: Mr Speaker, I was paying attention to the answer that was provided by Hon. Milupi in response to the question by Hon. Chisanga regarding mobilisation of resources. Considering the nature of the university and what it was supposed to achieve, do we have partners in the climate change agenda space, who will be willing to provide resources to this project? Has the Government engaged such partners?

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, we know that these projects, especially universities, are acutely needed in places where they are supposed to be. In provinces where there are no public universities, our young people have to trek to other places to seek higher education. The Government is short of resources, as we keep mentioning on the Floor of this House time and again. However, at the same time, we continue to engage and look for alternative means of funding for these projects. We also engage and look for co-operating partners who may be in a position to assist us. Thirdly, we look for the budgetary provision from within ourselves. Where we can squeeze money, we do that to ensure that these facilities are put in place. I can assure the hon. Member that with respect to the provinces where we do not have public universities, the Government is actively looking for ways of facilitating these projects. I have mentioned three provinces, that is, Luapula, Northern, and Western that need public universities, but there are other places like the Eastern Province that do not have public universities. So, all these will be taken as a group and resources will be sought for that. As the economy opens up, these matters will be concluded.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Speaker, I followed the comprehensive response by the hon. Minister to the question asked by the hon. Member for Lukashya. In his response, the hon. Minister stated that one of the reasons that the project was cancelled is the fact that there was a consideration by the developer to adjust upwards the contract sum. I would like to know whether the negotiations on this issue were locked, and whether there was no room for further negotiations by the Government to ensure that this very important university, NtumpaUniversity, was constructed. 

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member is asking whether there was no more room for discussion on the adjustment of the contract sum. In my response, I mentioned that when the costs resulting from the desire of the contractor to get extra resources were computed, they amounted to a figure greater than 25 per cent of the contract price. So, the contract was cancelled. The law is very specific that, you cannot carry out a variation on a project if the variation is greater than 25 per cent of the project. So, on the basis of that, the discussion came to an end. If the variation was within 25 per cent, the Government would have considered varying it because it was within the figure allowed by the law. Had the ministry gone further to award a contract outside this, it would have been against the law, and the Auditor-General, the Public Accounts Committee and, indeed, this very House, would have picked it up. So, that is the situation. The main issue now is, let us see what needs to be done to ensure that these provinces also get universities.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chisanga: Mr Speaker, considering the vastness of the piece of land that was allocated for this project, what effort is the Government putting in place to ensure that piece of land is secured? In the near future when the Government decides to implement the completion of the project, it should find the same size of land that was allocated by the traditional authorities.

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, on matters like this, we ask for community responsibility. I have been to the FJT University site. I know, it is overgrown with vegetation. However, we ask that when land is allocated for very good projects that would enhance education in various locations, the authorities, including the office of the hon. Member of Parliament, continue to monitor the sites to ensure that there is no encroachment. The projects have not been cancelled. I have stated on the Floor of this House time and again that, the projects that were initiated, whether in the previous administration or not, will serve our citizens. The New Dawn Government has no plans to cancel these projects. It is a question of provision of resources to ensure that these projects are embarked upon. So, the local communities must be advised to not encroach on the sites. So, I expect the local authorities, the area chiefs who may have made the land available, and the hon. Members of Parliament in those areas to help ensure that the sites are protected from encroachment.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, on prior arrangement, the hon. Member of Parliament for Bweengwa will ask a question on behalf of the hon. Member of Parliament for Mbabala. Further, Question No. 44 has been brought forward to allow the hon. Minister to attend to urgent matters.

REPLACEMENT OF NON-FUNCTIONAL MORTUARY UNIT AT MACHA MISSION HOSPITAL

44. Mr Michelo (Bweengwa) (on behalf of Mr Munsanje (Mbabala)) asked the Minister of Health when the Government will replace the non-functional mortuary unit at Macha Mission Hospital in Mbabala Parliamentary Constituency.

The Minister of Health (Mr Muchima): Mr Speaker, before I answer the question, allow me to pass my condolences to Hon. Kambwili, who lost his brothers in an accident. Further, there is speculation that the Government did not act in time. Hon. Kambwili was evacuated to Maina Soko Military Hospital, Lusaka, on Government cost, not by a relative. Secondly, I want to clarify the issue of the Computed Tomography (CT) scan, which was reported to have been delivered to Luanshya. It was not a CT scan machine but an ultrasound machine that was there. Those are speculations on social media.

Mr Speaker, the mortuary unit at Macha Mission Hospital was non-functional as it needed re-gassing. The unit has since been repaired and is functioning well. The Government recognises that this mortuary unit is old and requires replacement. In 2025, the Government will procure thirty mortuary units, and it is expected that Macha Mission Hospital will be a beneficiary.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

TAX REVENUE RAISED FROM MINING IN 2022 AND 2023

43. Mr Kang’ombe asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning:

(a) how much revenue, in taxes, was raised from the mining sector in 2022 and 2023;

(b) how the revenue was used to improve the performance of the Zambian Kwacha during the same period; and

(c) what measures the Government has put in place to earn more foreign exchange from other sectors of the economy.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the Government collected a total ofK22.64billion from the mining sector in 2022, comprising K12.2 billion from company tax and K10.4 billion from mineral royalty tax. In 2023, this decreased to K13.1 billion, with K5.4 billion collected from company tax and K7.7 billion from mineral royalty tax. This represented a decrease of K8.5 billion in revenue from the mining sector on year-to-year comparison.

Mr Speaker, the revenues from mines are receipted in United States Dollars (US$) which, in turn, contributes to increased foreign exchange reserves in the country. The increase in the reserves helps to stabilise the foreign exchange market.

Mr Speaker, the Government has put in place a number of measures to encourage exports, which has led to earning more foreign exchange from other sectors of the economy. Some of these measures include:

(a) investment in agriculture production and value-addition chains;

(b) provision of fiscal incentives such as tax relief to encourage investment in agriculture; and

(c) undertaking infrastructure development as well as maintaining and rehabilitating tourism sites in order to attract more tourists to the country.

Mr Speaker, in addition, among the many projects being implemented include the Zambia Green, Resilient and Transformational Tourism Development Project (GREAT-TDP), with a financing facility of US$100 million from the World Bank.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kang’ombe: Mr Speaker, I was paying attention to the response. Of course, the figures were not very clear, but I noticed that there was a reduction in revenue. In 2022, we got K22 billion in taxes from the mining sector. In 2023, we got only K13 billion. According to the response from the hon. Minister, there was a reduction of K8.5 billion in terms of revenue from mines. So, my first follow-up question is: what is the loss or reduction of revenue of about K8.5 billion from mines attributed to? Is the hon. Minister able to clarify so that we understand why we lost K8.5 billion in revenue?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, it happens so often that economic circumstances change and revenues drop. What happened in 2022 and 2023 is not the first time. For example, between 2016 and 2017, a similar thing happened when revenue fell from K8.6 billion to K3.7 billion. Similarly, between 2019 and 2020, there was another fall from K7.5 billion to K6.9 billion. So, this happens from time to time, depending on circumstances. In the case that we are talking about, revenue fell on account of two things. Firstly, at the beginning of 2023, mining companies reported that there had been excessive rain in the new mining areas in the North-Western Province, which are pit-based. It took a lot of time for the water to be cleared. Time was lost. As a result, the output of copper or copper production went down. Secondly, given what mining companies say had been a hostile environment, no new developments and investments had been made for roughly about maybe a decade. Therefore, the quality of the ores had declined, meaning that the amount of copper you could winnow out of a tonne of ore was less than previously because no extra investment had been made. However, I am happy to say that new investments have been made, and we look forward to increased revenues. Starting maybe this year, going forward, we should see more and more revenue coming in because mining production will be expanding.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Mr Speaker, it is a fact that the mining sector, especially where I come from, Mufulira, saw serious reduction in production. Mopani Copper Mines Plc saw serious reduction in production from an average of 400 metric tonnes per day to as low as 180 metric tonnes per day. However, as we speak, the mine is producing about 580 metric tonnes per day, meaning that we are going to see more copper come out of that mine. Is there hope that taxes from the mine will increase in 2025?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, indeed, Hon. Mabeta is correct. Given the fact that Mopani Copper Mines Plc had dropped production because of what had transpired, as he says; Konkola Copper Mines Plc (KCM) had also dropped production; and Lumwana Mine and First Quantum Minerals Limited (FQM) had not reinvested, ores were declining, meaning that production across the sector went down. This is what we are discussing here. If production is going down, obviously, you do not expert revenues to increase, everything else held constant. Mopani Copper Mines Plc is now back on stream and is strong. KCM is back and Lumwana Mine is expanding. Just about a week or two ago, the President went to inaugurate the expansion of the super pit, meaning that in the next three to four years, production is going to double. Now that Kansanshi Mine is also expanding, production is going to double. Now that the new nickel mine and other mines are open in Mumbwa, Luanshya and other areas, production will go up and the amount of revenue that we will be collecting will be rising and rising. You cannot expect to collect rising revenue when production is going down. The answer is to increase production, and that is what is happening.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mumba: Mr Speaker, allow me to add to what my hon. Colleague from Kankoyo said. For the first time, the workers at Mopani Copper Mines Plc got production bonuses. I hope the Government will not tax them now and in the future, so that the workers enjoy the bonuses that they have been working hard for. 

Mr Speaker, I want to draw the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to part (c) of the question, which talks about the various revenues that have been proposed. I did not hear the hon. Minister talk about the issue that the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) raised. The ZRA complained that only seven mines are contributing to tax revenue. I was hoping that the hon. Minister would be a bit aggressive on this matter because I believe that if the mining sector contributed correctly to the revenue in this country, the number of taxes that our people are currently subjected to would drastically reduce. I would like to hear from the hon. Minister on that issue.

Mr Speaker, maybe, let me add one more example. As the mines are expanding, they are importing equipment costing millions of dollars. When that equipment comes, it is consigned directly to the mine. When a mine pays those millions of dollars, it does not pay a single tax because the money is immediately transferred to the banks where the companies supplying the mines are registered abroad. In terms of the ZRA being aggressive and innovative, when are we going to see taxes charged to mining companies, just like Zambians who supply the mining companies are charged all sorts of taxes. We need to see fairness introduced.

 

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Kantanshi is right. There have been reports from the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) that show that the number of companies holding mining licences of various categories is much bigger than the number of mining companies paying taxes. So, the question is: What is being done about that? There are two things. First of all, I think, we have to recognise that the reason the tax revenue dropped is that those who were already paying taxes were no longer able to pay the taxes they used to pay before because production went down. That is why we had a decline in tax revenue. The answer to that, as I already said, is what we are observing in Mufulira: production is going up.

Mr Speaker, on the issue of those who have not been paying taxes, the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development came and will still come back to this House to establish the Minerals Regulation Commission because it is best placed to be in a position to sniff around and identify the mining companies that are operating. Many of the 2,000 mining companies that the hon. Member is talking about are small companies spread all over the place. Some are easy to find, others are not easy to find. So, the first step is to sort out the institutional arrangement for identifying the companies, tracking them down and alerting the tax man saying, “there is a mine there.” I believe that the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development will come here to complete the task of establishing the Minerals Regulation Commission. That said, I also want to say that clearly, the big mining companies will continue to dominate the industry because they are the ones that are heavily capitalised with a lot of expertise.So, yes, we should get some more revenues from the small mining companies, and we will push very hard for that. However, we should also recognise that many of the mining companies are very small. So, we cannot really expect to get a lot out of them.

Mr Speaker, on taxes, I want say that sometimes there is a belief that Zambia is very lenient on taxation. However, look at a number of other mining countries. I urge my hon. Colleagues to go and do some research to find out what the tax rate is in Chile, Indonesia, the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Namibia, the United States of America (USA), Canada and Australia. Let them go and check for themselves. They should not rely on the casual statements that we sometimes hear, and then we all repeat that Zambian taxation is too lenient. Go and check country by country and see whether in fact taxes in those countries are more stringent compared to Zambia. Check for yourself. My answer is no. Actually, Zambia is one of the countries that taxes mining companies a bit more compared to other countries. Even now as we speak, that is the situation.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Mr Speaker, looking at how much money we get from mining companies, is the Government going to continue offloading dollars to cover the exchange rate?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the biggest source of foreign exchange in Zambia still remains the mining sector. Clearly, when the sector did not bring much foreign currency in the country as we saw in 2022/2023 because of the reason I gave, we saw pressure on the exchange rate. Similarly, we see what happens when the situation improves in terms of earnings from the mining sector. I think, we have all noticed that in the last six months there has been stability in the exchange rate. That stability is because the earnings from the mining companies have begun to improve compared to the period that we are talking about. That is why we keep on encouraging more and more investments. The more investment is made, the more dollars will come, and the more we are going to see stability in the exchange rate.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chala (Chipili): Mr Speaker, I want to find out from the hon. Minister whether he has attached some officers from the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) to monitor the activities of mining companies so that when the mining companies report their production numbers to the Government, the Government can compare with the information from the ZRA because mining companies might be cheating the state. I want to hear from the hon. Minister.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, indeed, that is the case. There are exit formalities when trucks leave mining areas. There are also exit formalities when trucks leave the country. Having said that, of course the process does not end there. There are also times when there are random checks made with machines at any point when trucks are en route to borders. I also want to say that we have to remain vigilant because like in any other situation, you cannot just rely on a story that is told to you. We also have to verify.

Mr Speaker, having said that, I want to repeat my usual song. Many of us are always very concerned about how much revenue we are collecting, but very few of us talk about what we are doing to expand production, okay. I do not hear a lot of that talk. I do not hear a lot of debate about what we are doing as a country to expand production in mining and of course in everything else. Just to give you an example, in the next two or three years, I believe there will be an investment of about US$10 billion in the mining sector. That sounds great, and for course it is a big improvement from where we are coming from. However, the other day I was just browsing and I saw a figure for Chile. Between 2022 and 2030, the mining projects in the pipeline in Chile are worth US$69 billion. That is the pipeline that they have in Chile. Clearly, our colleagues are investing that kind of money, US$69 billion, and we are investing US$10 billion. Yes, there is improvement, but you cannot realistically expect to live as well as the Chileans because there is no money going into the mining industry. So, yes, let us make sure that taxes are collected, but equally very important, how do we encourage more investments into our country? For other countries, even mere exploration is a very big industry. Exploration itself is a very big industry that hires or employs many people who buy many services. You can imagine, if we had a budget of something like US$1 billion on just exploration every year, how much money would come into the country? So, this is the way to see the industry. Yes, let us make sure that mining companies pay taxes, but there will even be more taxes paid if we encourage production to increase.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kang’ombe: Mr Speaker, the last question of the three questions I asked the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning was on how best we can get other sectors to contribute effectively to our revenue. Obviously, the hon. Minister will agree with me that for the last fourteen years, we have not reached 1 million tonnes of copper production. Last year, we produced 680,000 metric tonnes of copper; we did not even manage to get to 700,000 metric tonnes, which simply means that as we grow the mining sector, we also need to look to other sectors. That is why I asked the last part of my question. The last part of my question was: How are we ensuring that other sectors contribute adequately to the revenue that we need so that our Kwacha can perform better? I need a bit of clarification because I did not get the response that the hon. Minister provided. He mentioned agriculture and tourism, but I did not get the actual strategies we are implementing in those particular sectors. That is my last follow-up question.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the key in all this is to encourage more and more investment in sectors that can earn us foreign currency. Mining is just one example of how that investment can create exports.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member has asked for specific examples of what is being done in other sectors. One example is agriculture. People in the farming community in our country have been crying out for years and years that they are underpaid. So, this Government decided a year ago, or since coming into office that the amount of money to be paid to our farmers must improve. Year in and year out we have been trying to stop farmers and millers from selling to the DRC because there are smugglers. We all forget that when you sell to the DRC, what comes back are dollars. So, we have a ready market in the DRC for something as simple as agricultural products like maize. The trouble is that we are scared to sell to the DRC because the price there is higher. We are scared that – when I say “we,” I mean the whole Zambia. From 1964 to date, we have been scared. We are scared that since the Congolese are willing to pay more and of course give us dollars, those of us who eat nshima will say that maize or mealie meal is expensive because millers or farmers are selling to the DRC. So, this Government has taken the view that, let us pay farmers better so that they produce more. That surplus that we are going to get, we are going to send it across to the DRC and bring dollars back. I can assure you, our farmers will be very happy. For the time being, we are basically – when I say “we,” I mean the whole Zambia. From independence, we have made life hard for farmers. The market says, “Bring your maize, bring your mealie meal. We can give you dollars from the DRC.” However, we Zambians are the ones holding back because we want to continue eating cheap food at the expense of farmers, discouraging many of us who are here and in the rest of the country from going out there and growing maize to sell to the DRC and other places. That is an easy way.

Mr Speaker, time and again on the Floor of this House, we have spoken about the farming blocks. Farming blocks will be places that emulate what is happening at Nakambala Sugar Estate. That is basically what they are; places where industrial agriculture is encouraged to produce more and more, like the way Nakambala Sugar Estate does. By the way, Nakambala Sugar Estate exports sugar.So, what I am saying is, why do we not have similar arrangements like Nakambala in a farming block, where you can have a co-venture like Nakambala Sugar Estate and a processing facility supported by out grower schemes that can produce and sell to the co-venture and the processing facility. If we do that, agriculture is going to be on an industrial scale, and we will be able to export, like Nakambala Sugar Estate does. These are some of the things we are going to push very hard.

Mr Speaker, each time we harvest 3 million or 4 million tonnes of maize we celebrate. Do you know how much grain Brazil produces every year? It produces 300 million tonnes of grain every year. Now, there is nothing stopping us from achieving the same results, provided we open up and encourage more investment. If we do that, no one will talk about foreign exchange and unemployment because there will be so much foreign exchange. When we harvest 3 million tonnes, 4 million tonnes or 5 million tonnes of maize we celebrate. Yes, it is an improvement, but when you compare that with 300 million tonnes of grain produced in Brazil, you realise that we have a lot more to do than what we are doing now.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Speaker, I have followed the responses from the hon. Minister with keen interest. I want to acknowledge that indeed, our desire is to see realistic production in the mining sector. I must say that I was a bit taken aback yesterday when I was listening to the debate on the Motion that was moved by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kamfinsa. Of course, I think that there was a bit of contradiction. The hon. Minister responsible for energy acknowledged that the Motion that was moved was like opening an open door. The essence of that Motion was to speak to the enablers who make the Government –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you are supposed to ask supplementary questions. You are debating.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, yes. I am just acknowledging the responses from the hon. Minister so that I pose a question.

Ms Sefulo: What is the question!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You are veering off from the –

Mr Kampyongo: He said that as hon. Members who are supposed to help him, we do not speak to the elements that will make the mining sector productive. That is what he pushed to us. He said that he does not hear us talk about that, but we are just talking about revenue coming from the mining companies. That is why I started from there. 

Mr Speaker, that said, the response from the hon. Minister on part (c) of the question by the hon. Member gives me comfort that maybe sooner than later, we shall see some stability in the exchange rate of the dollar versus the Kwacha, which has been dancing kalela to the dollar.

Mr Sing’ombe: Question!

Ms Sefulo: Dancing what?

Mr Kampyongo: In his response to part (c) of the question, the hon. Minister said that part of the revenue collected from the mining sector is invested in the agricultural sector. I agree with him that by exporting maize to the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), we gain foreign exchange. However, if indeed, the Government has invested –

Ms Sefulo: Eh!

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I need protection.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, ask your supplementary question. You are debating so there is apprehension.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, if indeed, part of the revenue from the mining sector is being invested in the agricultural sector, why have we maintained the same number of beneficiaries under the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) at 1,030,000 from 2021 to date? You know that our farmers, given the right environment, are capable of …

Ms Sefulo: Hm. He has continued debating.

Mr Kampyongo: … producing enough for you to export to the DRC. I would like to know why the number has remained static.

Ms Sefulo interjected.

Mr Kampyongo: Can you keep quiet!

Mr Sing’ombe: A whole lot of you talking to a lady like that!

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, this is unruliness. This is a House of order.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Mwandi, order!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the number of beneficiaries on the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) has been maintained from last year. That is true. It was increased a few years ago. However, I also want to say that the amount for FISP in the Budget has increased. I also want to say to the hon. Member, there has been a clean-up. The Electronic Voucher (e-Voucher) System and other measures are being introduced, and they clearly show that many of the people who were being supported under FISP were being supported unjustifiably. Many of them were actually public workers. Many of them were not qualified in one way or the other. Perhaps, they were taking too much. So, the system that is being introduced is forcing farmers to identify themselves or be properly identified. When you say that you are James, with a National Registration Card (NRC) and phone number, we will corroborate that data and ensure that you are the right person. We are seeing that there are many bogus farmers. Sorry, there are many farmers who are not supposed to get inputs under FISP. So, the numbers were inflated. As we clean up the list of beneficiaries, we will provide opportunities for those who are proper farmers to come on stream because those who are not proper farmers will be weeded out.

Mr Speaker, having said that, I also want to say that supporting farming is not just about the Government providing subsidies to farmers. Yes, that is part of it, but the other component is that of the Government putting in place policy measures that attract people with their own money or people who do not depend on Government money to farm. That is what we are talking about here. Let me use Nakambala Sugar Estate as an example. You have never heard Nakambala Sugar Estate come here to ask for subsidies. You have never heard it say “give us fertiliser” because it can buy its own fertiliser. You have not even heard out grower farmers telling the Government, “give us fertiliser” because they are doing viable farming and can provide for themselves. That is what we are talking about. Let us have more and more of these arrangements of farmers who know what they are doing and who are skilful and, therefore, they can organise their own money to buy fertilisers and carry out their own marketing. That way, the industry is going to grow. We cannot just think that supporting agriculture is always about the taxpayer giving money to farmers, no. It has to be broader than that, and that is what this Government is trying to do.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

E-GP PLATFORM DISADVANTAGING LOCAL CONTRACTORS

45. Mr Kapyanga (Mpika) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning:

(a) whether the Government is aware that the decision by the Zambia Public Procurement Authority (ZPPA) to request all contractors to bid for Constituency Development Fund (CDF) contracts on the e-GP platform is disadvantaging local contractors who are domiciled within each constituency, as they can no longer be prioritised in acquiring CDF contracts as per presidential directive; and

(b) if so, what measures are being taken to ensure that contractors who are domiciled within each constituency are prioritised in the awarding of CDF contracts.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the Electronic Government Procurement (e-GP) platform is in alignment with the Public Procurement Act and regulations and serves as a tool for Government institutions, which includes local authorities to engage suppliers and contractors for various goods, works and services.

Mr Speaker, it is essential to note that the e-GP system does not inherently disadvantage any supplier from participating in a procurement process. The Constituency Development Fund (CDF) guidelines were developed in line with the Public Procurement Act, and they allow for reservation of procurements on the e-GP system. Any alleged hindrance to local contractors on the system is not from the e-GP system but from suppliers failing to follow the requirements on the e-GP system. The requirements ensure that only local suppliers are considered. However, some local authorities have not been following these provisions.

Mr Speaker, there are programmes that have been put in place to sensitise contractors domiciled in each constituency due to lack of alignment of the statement of requirements on the e-GP system. The following are some of the programmes:

(a) ensuring that local authorities strictly adhere to the Public Procurement Act reservation schemes, the CDF guidelines, and the presidential directives concerning CDF projects. This entails incorporating criteria that specify eligibility for local contractors and verifying that they are domiciled within the locality through documentation during bid evaluations;

(b) in collaboration with the Zambia Devolution Support Programme under the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, 2,602 suppliers and contractors have been trained in seventy-three local authorities in the use of the e-GP system;

(c) the Zambia Public and Procurement Authority (ZPPA) has established a help desk to provide assistance on the e-GP system; and

(d) Electronic-Learning (e-Learning) modules are available on the ZPPA website for additional guidance on the e-GP system, and suppliers and contractors are encouraged to utilise this resource.

Mr Speaker, it is crucial to highlight that the mandatory use of the e-GP system by procuring entities as stipulated in Section 16 of the Public Procurement Act No. 8 of 2020 and the Public Procurement (Amendment) Act No. 17 of 2023 came into full effect in April 2024. All procuring entities were expected to transition to the e-GP system by this deadline.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mabeta: Mr Speaker, definitely, the Electronic Government Procurement (e-GP) system has brought transparency in the manner in which procurement, especially for public services, is done. However, I will give an example of my uncle in Kankoyo Constituency, who has very little knowledge about the Internet and the modern way of doing business. Is there an amount allowed to be procured outside the e-GP system, which councils can use for the purpose of building capacity in our local suppliers regarding the Constituency Development Fund (CDF)?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I have two responses to that. The first is that obviously, in terms of convenience, the e-GP system is designed to be more convenient than the current system. It is just that when anything new starts, there is always difficultly and people sometimes hesitate to transition. I remember the time in the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, when personal computers were just being introduced and people were using spreadsheets to crunch out numbers. There was one old school man, who insisted that when the print out from the spreadsheet was done, he must use his calculator to check the numbers to see whether the computer had added the numbers correctly or not. That is an example of a person refusing to transition. Having said that, the ministry is open to dialogue so that where there are genuine practical problems, we may discuss them. However, in doing so, we should not discourage innovation from taking place. Afterall, even mobile phones were received the same way. How many of us could operate mobile phones on the first day that we received them? We did not know how to operate them, but we insisted on learning until we were able to operate them. Today, we are able to operate more sophisticated phones. So, let us not stop innovation because we will fall behind. If there are genuine problems, let us talk and see how we can resolve them.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, youths in Mpika Constituency, particularly in Chitulika, Kamwanya and TAZARA have created companies. They want to participate in bidding for the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) projects. However, they are faced with the challenge of Internet in many areas. As the hon. Minister may be aware, constituencies such as Mpika are predominantly rural and have issues with Internet connectivity. Could the ministry consider coming up with an amount that can be contracted using a manual system so that everyone can participate? Now, every tender that is published shows that the contractors come from outside the constituency. The challenge we have is that those contractors are abandoning works and we are having problems tracing them.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I think that is an example of what I said. Hon. Members should come so that we discuss and hear the specific problems and see how we can overcome them.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Mr Speaker, just a follow up on what my hon. Colleague said. Hon. Members from rural constituencies are really in trouble with the Electronic Government Procurement (e-GP) system. A small project that requires repairs worth maybe less than K5,000 at my constituency office has to be procured using the e-GP platform. Then, somebody from Livingstone will get the contract for a project costing just K5,000. That person has to travel from Livingstone to Mushindamo District, Solwezi East, for a tender costing K5,000. So, you will find that for almost more than one year, no repairs will be done.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Katakwe: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was giving an example of the disadvantage of the e-GP system to rural constituencies. A constituency office in a rural area had an issue to do with repair works costing just about K5,000 to K10,000, but because of the e-GP one year and five months down the line, no repairs have been done to the office. Why? It is because somebody from Livingstone got the tender on the e-GP but he or she cannot travel thousands of kilometres to Mushindamo for a contract costing just K10,000. Does the hon. Minister have plans to reconsider the e-GP platform so that a certain threshold can be set in order to enable contractors in rural constituencies access funds and be capacitated or empowered?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, as I said, we are open to discussion. We may even have what is called a townhall meeting, where hon. Members can meet and present their issues and we will try and resolve them. That is the promise I can give. We can organise a forum where we can discuss these issues and chart the way forward.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, we have load-shedding due to drought. As a result of load-shedding, mortuaries and other health facilities are affected. We have the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). In Mpika, we want to purchase solar equipment to power the mortuary and other departments within our health facilities. However, because of the lengthy procedure under the Electronic Government Procurement (e-GP) platform, it has taken more than two months for us to execute the works. The CDF is part of the decentralisation policy, but sending big documents back to Lusaka under the e-GP is not part of decentralisation. Can the same system not be domesticated under local authorities?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I think that these questions are just the same. All I have said is that if there are issues, as I seem to be hearing, we can create a forum where we can sit and hear the issues, see the common ones, and find a solution or the way forward. I think that the same questions are coming back in different ways, but the answer remains the same.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, in all his responses, the hon. Minister has acknowledged that there is a problem. In all his responses, the hon. Minister has indicated that there is a need to have a meeting. However, there is something that we can do urgently to resolve the problem. Is it possible to resolve the issue we are discussing today by having two systems running? We can have a local manual system to accommodate our local people and the Electronic Government Procurement (e-GP) platform to allow other people to participate. Clearly, the law prescribes the e-GP. We are dealing with the Public Finance Management Act, the Public Procurement Act, and the Constituency Development Fund Act. So, is it possible to have two systems running together? The people in Solwezi East should be able to submit their quotations to the council the way it used to be in the past. Can we have two systems running together?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, let us talk first so that we have proper solutions, rather than introduce new elements that may have complications. Let us talk, let us hear the issues, let us find the solution, and then close the line.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Mr Speaker, Constituency Development Fund (CDF) programmes are meant to benefit locals. However, the hon. Minister has put up these roadblocks. No wonder people say that the CDF is a scam. Why does he require a meeting –

Mr Samakayi: Question!

Ms Nyirenda: No. I know what I am talking about.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Ms Nyirenda: If the local people in my constituency do not benefit, how are they going to glorify CDF programmes?

Interruptions

Ms Nyirenda: Get me right.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Lundazi, avoid misinforming the public. I remember, I was the one presiding when you were commending the projects you have done using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Those projects are in your constituency. How do you turn around to mislead the public?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, ensure that whatever you say on the Floor is factual. You were on the Floor of the House at some point appreciating what you have done using the CDF. Now, you have turned around and said that the CDF is a scam. The people are listening. I think, withdraw the word “scam.”

Ms Nyirenda: Mr Speaker, I will say this in Tumbuka and then translate into English: “Sangane banthu balawokhala ku Lundazi, wosebenzako yayi nchito nakuti bapokeko ndalama za CDF. Bamanyenge yayi kuti iyi CDF iliko batenge mvaboza mvautesi. I am saying that if the locals from my community do not participate in these projects and do not get any money, they will not believe that the programme is real. That is what I said.  Now, because you have asked me to withdraw, I withdraw the word so that I just satisfy you, but that is not the idea.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Nyirenda: What is the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning going to do to ensure that people do not doubt that the CDF is working? Can he remove the roadblocks he has put as the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Aunty Brenda.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, to ensure that people do not doubt the CDF, the first thing to be done is, those who want to deliberately frustrate the CDF must be corrected …

Mr Simutowe: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: … because there are some people, even when there are so many good things coming out of the CDF, when it suits them, they will stand on an anthill and say that the CDF is achieving nothing. This is why, for example, it has become necessary for District Commissioners (DCs) to be part of the CDF. It is because in the absence of that, some hon. Members of Parliament want to create the impression that the CDF is impossible.

Mr Speaker, I have said so many times here today, this afternoon, that if there are problems, hon. Members should come, we sit and discuss. For the hon. Member to now turn around and say that people may start doubting whether the CDF is real or not, that is puzzling to me. By the way, today we signed the contract for the Chipata/Lundazi/Magodi Road. So, I was hoping that when she stood up, she would congratulate the Government, but she was silent.

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: So, it has to take me to say to the people of Lundazi and Magodi, the Government has worked very hard to attract the American people to organise more than US$400 million to work on the road from Chipata to Lundazi and Magodi. Now, I must thank His Excellency the President on behalf of the people of Lundazi: Mr President, well done. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Simumba (Nakonde): Mr Speaker, the Electronic Government Procurement (e-GP) platform is not benefiting locals. In Nakonde, we wanted to procure some solar systems for a mortuary, but to date, the system has declined, yet the hon. Minister is there waiting for a meeting.

Laughter 

Mr Simumba: Mr Speaker, local authorities are authorities on their own. Why can the hon. Minister or the locals not start procuring projects on their own without being subjected to the Public Procurement Act?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, public procurements must be undertaken in line with what the law says. If you do not do that, the end result is, at some point in the future people will get in trouble with the law. So, we must follow the law. If there are procedural issues because of the e-GP, I have said over and over that hon. Members should come so that we talk. However, that is not to say that doors have now been opened for anyone to procure in any manner he or she wants outside the law, no. In fact, this protects us because if you go outside the law, unfortunately, the law is going to visit you at one time or another.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

_______

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1721 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 22^nd October, 2024. 

____________

CIVIL SERVANTS RETIRED IN NATIONAL INTEREST 

36.Mr Emmanuel Musonda (Lupososhi) asked the Vice-President:

(a) how many civil servants countrywide were retired in the national interest by the Public Service Management Division from August 2016 to August 2021;

(b) which Government institution had the most affected employees;

(c) how many appeals were received as of March 2024;

(d) following the appeals, how many cases were: 

1. upheld; and
2. rescinded; and
3. what measures are being taken to prevent such occurrences in future.

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Mr Speaker, a total of 103 public servants were retired in the national interest countrywide from August 2016 to August 2021. Twenty-nine were retired in the national interest to take up other appointments in the Public Service while seventy-four were retired in the national interest as a result of Government policy.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Health was the most affected, with twenty officers retired in the national interest.

Mr Speaker, a total of 2,276 appeals were received as at March 2024. There were 138 appeals against retirement in the national interest as at August 2021 while 2,138 were appeals against early or normal retirements, retirement in the public interest, termination of employment or contract, non-award of new contracts, dismissals, redundancy or retrenchment, resignations and administrative cases for serving officers.

Mr Speaker, following the appeals for cases upheld, out of 2,276 appeals, 1,344 appeals were upheld, of which twenty-nine were appeals against retirement in the national interest.

Mr Speaker, 160 appeals were rescinded and the appellants were reinstated, and sixty-nine were appeals against retirement in the national interest.

Mr Speaker, the President directed that no employee should be retired in the national interest, unless for reasons stipulated in the Terms and Conditions of Service of the Public Service. I wish to inform the august House that no employee has been retired in the national interest for reasons other than those provided in the Terms and Conditions of Service. In this regard, retirement in the national interest is currently only applied in strict adherence to the provisions of the Terms and Conditions of Service.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

COMPLETION OF CHIKAKALA BRIDGE

38.Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

(a) when the construction of Chikakala Bridge in Kachibiya Parliamentary Constituency will be completed;

(b) what has caused the delay in completing the project; and

(c) what the cost of the outstanding works, is.

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Mr Speaker, the construction of Chikakala Bridge in Kanchibiya Constituency will be completed when funds are made available. The delay in completing the project is due to unavailability of funds.

Mr Speaker, the estimated cost of outstanding works on the project is K499,000.00.

I thank you, Sir.