Wednesday, 6^th November, 2024

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNONCEMENTS BY MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER

PRESENCE IN THE PUBLIC GALLERY OF STUDENTS AND LECTURERS FROM MULUNGUSHI UNIVERSITY

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence in the Public Gallery of students and lecturers from Mulungushi University in Kapiri Mposhi District. On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors to our midst.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

PRESENCE IN THE PUBLIC GALLERY OF PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM HOLY CROSS CONVENT SCHOOL

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence in the Public Gallery of pupils and teachers from Holy Cross Convent School on Lusaka District. On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors to our midst.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

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URGENT MATTERS WITHOUT NOTICE

MR B. MPUNDU, HON. MEMBER FOR NKANA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, MR MWIIMBU, SC., ON THE ISSUANCE OF NATIONAL REGISTRATION CARDS

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Mr Speaker, I rise on an Urgent Matter without Notice directed to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Mr Speaker, the National Registration Card (NRC) is an important document, without which an adult cannot do anything in this country. One cannot even get a job without an NRC. At the moment, the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security is conducting national registration and issuing digital NRCs. However, reports everywhere suggest that ministry officials are charging K10 to K20 for the document in certain stations.

Mr Speaker, this is an exercise that is fully-sponsored by the Government. Therefore, is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security in order to allow this trend? Some people can think that K10 is a small amount, but there are many Zambians who cannot afford something costing K10. As I said, national registration is an exercise sponsored by the State. So, is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security in order to sit and allow a situation that deprives the Zambian people from accessing a very important document to continue?

I seek your indulgence, Mr Speaker?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, as you said, the matter you have raised is quite important, but you can file in an urgent question so that the hon. Minister can get back to the House with a response.

MR TWASA, HON. MEMBER FOR KASENENGWA, ON THE VICE-PRESIDENT, MRS NALUMANGO, ON THE HUNGER SITUATION IN KASENENGWA

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, thank you for this opportunity for the people of Kasenengwa to be heard in the House today through an Urgent Matter without Notice.

Mr Speaker, what is happening in Kasenengwa right now is that people are mainly surviving on mangoes, wild fruits and tubers called mupama, which have to be boiled for eight hours. The mangoes are chopped up, boiled and then mashed. Thereafter, a sweetener is added to make the mashed mangoes edible. The people of Kasenengwa have been asking me what they will survive on because the mupama is finished. They cannot find it in the bush anymore. Mangoes will also be finished very soon.

Mr Speaker, is the Government going to consider increasing the allocation for relief maize or the Cash for Work Programme so that people can, at least, find other means of survival because they are worried? As Bembas say, “Umwabela Lesa”, which means by the grace of God, we have had so many mangoes this year. This has enabled people to survive. Once mangoes are finished, will the Government supply more maize so that people can, at least, get some relief? This matter is directed to whoever is in charge of Government Business in the House because Her Honour the Vice-President and the hon. Minister of Agriculture are both currently not in the House.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, the matter you have just raised is an important one, but I hope you took some steps as an hon. Member of Parliament to engage Her Honour the Vice-President through the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU). Coming on the Floor of the House to raise such a matter should be the last resort. You should have engaged the District Commissioner (DC) and Her Honour –

Mr Twasa: I did, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You may resume your seat.

Mr Twasa resumed his seat.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You can also file in an urgent question to the relevant ministry.

MR P. PHIRI, HON. MEMBER FOR MKAIKA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MR MTOLO, ON THE REPAYMENT OF LOANS OBTAINED UNDER THE SUSTAINABLE AGRICULTURE FINANCING FACILITY

Mr P. Phiri (Mkaika): Mr Speaker, thank you so much for giving this opportunity to the people of Mkaika. My Urgent Matter without Notice is directed to the hon. Minister of Agriculture. I have seen that he is not in the House, and therefore, I direct it the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House, who can, maybe, attend to it.

Mr B. Mpundu: Shamwali!

Mr P. Phiri: Mr Speaker, the matter concerns the loans obtained under the Sustainable Agriculture Financing Facility (SAFF). The loans were given to people in Mkaika, including public workers and farmers. As you are aware, many people did not harvest in the last farming season because of the drought we experienced recently. However, those who got the loans, especially public workers, are being forced to pay back. The money is deducted immediately salaries are deposited in workers’ accounts. This is being done without consulting the workers on how much should be deducted. There has been no table discussion on how the loans are to be repaid given the scenario we are in. In some cases, nothing is left in the worker’s account after the deduction has been made.

 Mr B. Mpundu: Inshita yalapwa.

Mr P. Phiri: Mr Speaker, public workers really depend on their salaries for their livelihood. In this regard, I would like the hon. Minister of Agriculture to tell the people of Mkaika how the loans are going to be paid, unlike the manner deductions are being made –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

You may resume your seat. Your time is up.

Mr P. Phiri resumed his seat.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: That matter cannot be admitted because it is not of recent occurrence. It is an ongoing matter so it does not qualify.

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS

MEASURES TO CURB CHARCOAL BURNING

Mr Emmanuel Musonda (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, permit me to join His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia in rushing to congratulate the President-elect of the United States of America (USA), Donald Trump.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Emmanuel Musonda: Mr Speaker, I also wish to take this opportunity to address the President and say that the will of the people cannot be suppressed –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

You are just supposed to mention the question number, as opposed to starting to debate and this is not –

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, avoid debating while seated. I think, you have been guided, hon. Member for Lupososhi. So, avoid debating and ask the question.

101. Mr Emmanuel Musonda asked the Minister of Green Economy and Environment what measures the Government is taking against charcoal burning to mitigate the effects of climate change.

The Minister of Green Economy and Environment (Mr Mposha): Mr Speaker, I noticed that parties that are struggling to even put in place a presidential candidate are taking advantage of anything that looks like –

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, I cannot hear from here because you are debating while seated.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: May the hon. Minister proceed. We did not get what you were saying.

Mr Mposha: Mr Speaker, the Government, through the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment, has taken decisive steps to curb the illegal trade and movement of charcoal. This is crucial in the fight against climate change, especially following the severe drought we experienced during the 2023/2024 Rainfall Season.

Sir, the Government has identified areas of concentrated charcoal production or hotspots. To address the rising levels of unsustainable charcoal production in these sites, the ministry has temporarily suspended the issuance of cordwood permits for charcoal production in districts such as Itezhi-Tezhi, Mumbwa and Shibuyunji. This has been done in accordance with the Forest Act.

Mr Speaker, you may wish to note that the Forestry Department is responsible for enforcing forestry laws and regulations, including those related to charcoal production. Through collaborative efforts, the police and other law enforcement agencies are involved in combating illegal charcoal production and trade. In addition, the Government continues to assess tree stock levels and may extend the said suspension to other districts, should there be need.

Mr Speaker, the House may wish to note that the Government is in the process of drafting new charcoal regulations, which will designate specific areas for charcoal production in each province. The designation of these zones will help control and regulate charcoal production and ensured that it is done in a sustainable manner, thereby preventing further environmental degradation.

Sir, the Government has partnered with various stakeholders, including the private sector, to promote alternative energy sources like liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) and charcoal briquettes as cleaner alternatives to traditional charcoal. This is part of the Government’s efforts to reduce reliance on charcoal and mitigate the negative impacts of its production on forests and the environment. Additionally, the Government, together with its partners, supports community forest management groups to empower local communities and provide them with alternative livelihood options, thereby reducing pressure on the forests and promoting sustainable forest management.

Mr Speaker, the Government has also intensified sensitisation and awareness on the negative effects of charcoal burning among charcoal burners and users. The messages are centred on the harmful effects of cutting trees on livelihoods and tree planting.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, the people of Kamfinsa wish to add a supplementary question to this very important topic regarding charcoal burning.

Mr Speaker, we are aware that the people who have been participating in charcoal production actually do it for economic purposes. I do not think that anyone would be interested in it if there was no economic value that was coming out of this particular activity.

Mr Speaker, in his response, the hon. Minister mentioned alternative sources of energy and one of them is liquefied petroleum gas (LPG). I did not hear him explain how the issue of the cost of LPG in making energy available for cooking and other uses is being handled. My supplementary question, therefore, is: What is the Government doing to ensure that alternative sources of energy such as LPG are made affordable? The majority of our people are not able to afford LPG.

Mr Mposha: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Kamfinsa for that very good question.

Mr Speaker, it is, indeed, true that LPG is currently on the higher side in terms of price. This is because we have not been using gas in Zambia in the past. Therefore, it is a new thing. It is only recently that we started promoting gas as an alternative source of energy for cooking. What are we doing to ensure that it is made available? We are already in talks with various players. I will not mention the countries because obviously the discussions are still in the infancy stages. However, we want to ensure that we bring as many players as possible on the market. Once the supply of gas is in abundance, we expect that even the price will be moderated and it will be quite affordable.

Mr Speaker, the campaign to ensure that people do not just depend on charcoal and electricity for cooking, but also use LPG, is still ongoing and we are scaling it up so that those that can afford at the moment should transition to using gas for cooking. So, we are putting various measures in place to ensure that gas is made readily available and cheaper to use. We are also doing everything possible to ensure that in the next few years, we have abundant supply of gas at an affordable price for those who currently cannot afford it.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Emmanuel Musonda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has stated that some of the steps that have been taken are the suspension of the issuance of charcoal permits and sensitisation of farmers. However, what strategies have been put in place to restore the degraded areas because of charcoal burning throughout the country?

Mr Mposha: Mr Speaker, I thank Hon. Musonda for that very good question.

Mr Speaker, yes, I did mention that we have suspended the issuance of permits for trading and movement of charcoal in three districts in the Central Province.

M Speaker, what are we doing to ensure that we restore trees in the areas where there has been massive illegal charcoal production? I think, you have heard, time and again, the Government, not only through my ministry, but through different ministries, encouraging people to take the path of restoration of forests. This means planting and replanting more trees. We are working through the Forestry Department to ensure that in the protected areas where trees have been cut, we allow the forest to regenerate. We need to allow trees to grow again and we are doing that by ensuring that we maximise patrols in such areas. We need to protect such areas from bush burning, which ends up damaging trees that are supposed to regenerate.

Mr Speaker, we have scaled up our work with co-operating partners on measures to ensure that we plant more trees. We have also scaled up messages to ensure that people in various areas plant more trees. That is one of the ways that will help us to replace the many trees that have been cut down.

Mr Speaker, I want to take advantage of being on the Floor of the House to thank the leadership of Hon. Madam Speaker for pushing the agenda of hon. Members of Parliament getting involved in planting more trees in various constituencies. These are the measures that will help us to restore the forests or replace the trees that have been cut down.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, I am grateful that charcoal burning hot spots have been identified in places like Mumbwa and Itezhi-Tezhi. I believe Nangoma and Lupososhi should be among the charcoal burning hot spots. I am sure the hon. Member for Lupososhi came to the House with this question because he is feeling the effects of charcoal burning in his constituency. In his earlier statement, I would have liked the hon. Minister to give direction on how the traditional leaders are coming in to support this cause. However, my substantive question is: How much support is the Government receiving from hon. Members of Parliament in terms of fighting charcoal burning in their constituencies?

Mr Mposha: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwata for that very good question.

Mr Speaker, let me start by touching on the point he raised regarding the involvement of their royal highnesses in the fight against charcoal burning. I must acknowledge that we are receiving a lot of support from their royal highnesses in ensuring that we protect the trees and plant more trees where necessary.

Mr Speaker, in the past two weeks, I have had a lot of engagements with traditional leaders. I was recently in Chipata where I met His Majesty Nkosi Yama Nkosi. We touched on this issue in our discussion and I can confirm that he is supporting the fight against deforestation and also wants to ensure that trees are protected and more trees are planted. I have also had meetings with Senior Chief Nsefu of Mambwe, Senior Chief Jumbe and Senior Chief Mkanya, all of whom are joining the fight against deforestation.

Mr Speaker, I had a meeting with fifty-five traditional leaders in Chipata and Chief Mnukwa led the group with which we agreed that we must protect trees in their chiefdoms. I have also just come from the Copperbelt Province, where I had a meeting with His Royal Highness Chief Chiwala. I was also in touch with Chief Nkambo, the Chairperson of House of Chiefs. All of these chiefs are in agreement that we must double our efforts to protect trees.

Mr Speaker, in a nutshell, we are receiving a lot of support from their royal highnesses because the charcoal burning activities are happening in their chiefdoms. I am extremely elated as the Minister of Green Economy and Environment for the support that is coming from them.

Mr Speaker, in terms of how much support we are receiving from Parliamentarians, I did allude to this earlier when I talked about the leadership of Hon. Madam Speaker in ensuring that we plant trees in our constituencies. However, I want to appeal to the hon. Members of Parliament that if only we can get a bit more support in terms of ensuring that they help us monitor and educate the people on the dangers of cutting down trees. The importance of indigenous trees cannot be overemphasised. The whole world is looking at Africa to protect indigenous trees, which are extremely important in trapping excess carbon. It is important that we protect these trees and plant more. I can only appeal for more support from my hon. Colleagues so that trees are protected in their constituencies.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment for the answers he is providing.

Mr Speaker, for the Government to achieve the measures it is pushing for, there needs to be an incentive on the other side for people to migrate to alternative energy sources. So, there is the issue of change management. We can use the example the hon. Minister has just given of small stoves that use liquefied petroleum gas (LPG). Has the Government considered zero-rating those stoves in terms of import tax? If more people can afford gas stoves, they will be incentivised to migrate from using charcoal. I think that is an important aspect. So, what is being done to incentive people to use LPG, especially people in rural areas such as farmers?

Mr Mposha: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Bwana Mkubwa for that very good question.

Mr Speaker, as I said, there are various measures that we are putting in place, including what he has just touched on. We are working with different players to educate rural communities on the need to use energy efficient cook stoves. We are rolling out the cook stoves, particularly in the rural areas where LPG might not be affordable.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member has asked about the incentives being provided. Many people in rural areas have been depending on the forests for a long time. As we know, some of them cut down trees not only for charcoal production, but to use as firewood. So, we are coming up with different programmes and projects that will allow people who have depended on charcoal production for a long time to receive some benefits. When they protect trees, they will receive something in return. They will also use the trees that they are protecting for sustainable agriculture, such as producing honey from beekeeping. In return, they will be getting some money from such activities.

Mr Speaker, there are so many programmes that we are rolling out. We are just coming from the Eastern Province. With the support of the Ministry of Finance and National Planning and the World Bank, we have just launched what is called the Eastern Province Jurisdictional Sustainable Landscape Programme (EP-JSLP), on which we are working with the private sector. We will be giving some incentives to the local communities that protect forests and plant trees.

Mr Speaker, there are many issues that we are looking at, including what the hon. Member has just suggested, which is zero-rating LPG products. It is another good proposal and we are looking at it. There are also many incentives that we are providing which will help rural communities to protect trees and transition from depending on cutting down trees and forests.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi): Mr Speaker, thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to ask a supplementary question.

Mr Speaker, before I ask the question, I just want to mention that I come from a district which was identified as one of the hotspots for charcoal burning. The idea to identify a few districts as hotspots was good, but the people of Itezhi-Tezhi feel that it was going to be better if all the districts were designated as such because climate change has no boundaries.

Mr Speaker, the ministry staff in the four districts where charcoal production has been banned is working under very difficult conditions. The staff does not have inventory machinery or vehicles, but we expect the officers in these districts to ensure that there is compliance. Last month, we had a case whereby people came to cut down trees in one of our forests, but we had no capacity to stop them and we just watched. What are the hon. Minister’s plans to support the officers in the four districts that have been identified as charcoal production hotspots? There is need for things like vehicles to enhance their capacity to ensure that there is compliance on not cutting down trees so that we mitigate the challenges that we are facing.

Mr Speaker, I thank you so much.

Mr Mposha: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Itezhi-Tezhi for that question.

Mr Speaker, we are working on capacitating the District Forest Officers and Provincial Forest Officers with mobility. We are working with the Treasury and co-operating partners and very soon we will equip our provincial offices with tools such as vehicles. In certain areas, we are pondering or thinking of providing motorbikes. We will be rolling out these working tools slowly, as and when resources are made available.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The last supplementary question will come from the hon. Member for Chienge.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Mr Speaker, I do not take the issue of charcoal burning lightly. The hon. Minister has covered a number of issues in his answers. However, we need to emulate our friends in Zimbabwe, who have put in place laws to protect the forests and prevent the burning and transporting of charcoal anyhow. Anybody involved in the charcoal trade needs a permit. I appreciate that charcoal production is a source of income, but the hon. Minister needs to go and check what is happening with the charcoal trade in Mtendere, which is in his constituency.

Mr Speaker, as I said, we need to emulate the laws in Zimbabwe, where you find the Shona people. When you are travelling at night in Zambia, you see so many 30 tonne trucks full of charcoal. So, is it possible to come up with policies or laws like those in Zimbabwe, where charcoal burning is restricted to protect the forests?

Mr Mposha: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chienge for another very good question.

Mr Speaker, the challenge that we have is the weak enforcement of the law, which needs to be stiffened a bit more. The example the hon. Member has given is true. Our Colleagues in the country she mentioned are complying with their regulations. We have regulations in this country, but the enforcement is weak. It is also true, as she said, that in markets like in Chawama and Mtendere or along the highways, you find trucks full of charcoal. They move at night and you wonder how they manage to pass the police check points when they are heavily laden with bags of charcoal.

Mr Speaker, nonetheless, we are working on revising the regulations so that we can tighten them and stiffen the penalties so that the people who are involved in illegal charcoal production are brought to book. We are not saying that we are going to have a total ban on charcoal production. I just need to expand on my earlier answer. We are going to promote legal production of charcoal in certain designated points in the provinces. All in all, we are working around tightening the laws so that we can further protect the trees.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

REHABILITATION OF THE CHIPATA/LUNDAZI/CHAMA/MATUMBO ROAD

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Mr Speaker, before asking my question, I wish to point out that the owner of the previous question was entitled to two supplementary questions.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: He delayed to indicate. So, I encourage him to conversate with the hon. Minister.

You can proceed with your question.

102. Ms Nyirenda asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

1. when rehabilitation of the Chipata/Lundazi/Chama/Matumbo Road will commence;

1. who the contractor for the project is;

1. what the estimated cost of the project is; and

1. what the timeframe for the completion of the project is.

The Minister of Information and Media (Mr Mweetwa) (on behalf of the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Mr Speaker, the 222 km Chipata/Lundazi/Chama/Matumbo Road will be rehabilitated using a grant from the Millennium Challenge Corporation once procurement of the contractor is concluded. The 30 km stretch between Chama and Matumbo, which is in a deplorable state, will be rehabilitated through Government funding. The project is expected to commence in 2025, while the remaining 233 km section will be rehabilitated once funds are secured by the Treasury.

Mr Speaker, the contractors for the rehabilitation works will be identified once the procurement processes are concluded.

Mr Speaker, the estimated cost is K3.89 billion for the 222 km section and K526 million for the 30 km section.

Mr Speaker, the timeframe for the project is estimated to be three years.

Mr Speaker, just to add some meat to the answer, I wish to state that a grant agreement was signed on 17^th October, 2024, between the Government of the Republic of Zambia and the Millennium Challenge Corporation under the Zambia Farm-to-Market Compact. The grant will include financing for the road section from Chipata via Lundazi to Chief Magodi’s area covering a distance of 222 km. This will be implemented by the Millennium Project Completion Agency Zambia (MPCA-Zambia) under the Roads and Access Project with a loan portion of about US$315 million.

Mr Speaker, procurement for the feasibility studies, detailed engineering designs and environmental and social impact assessments for the improvement of prioritised roads were launched on 29^th October, 2024. The tender for the procurement of the contractor has been circulated and will conclude on 18^th December, 2024.

Mr Speaker, of the remaining 263 km, a section of 30 km between Chama and Matumbo, which is in a rather deplorable state, will be undertaken through Government funding expected to commence in 2025 at a sum of K526 million.

Mr Speaker, the Government is currently carrying out periodic maintenance works on the 90 km stretch from Chipata to the Mwase/Mpangwe section of the Chipata/Lundazi Road. The last 233 km section will be rehabilitated once funds are made available. The Government is determined to ensure that this project is completed on time, given that the Lundazi Bridge has already been completed. In 2021, the Lundazi Bridge and Msuzi Bridge collapsed, leading to Lundazi being cut off from the rest of the province.

Mr Speaker, the New Dawn Administration is in a hurry to take development to the rest of the country.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Nyirenda: Mr Speaker, I am thankful for the answer the hon. Minister has provided to the people of Lundazi, although it is very unsatisfactory. The works were supposed to be done at once, but will be done in piecemeal, according to the hon. Minister’s answer. He has talked about 90 km, 222 km and 232 km. Is the Government committed to do this work or it is now just giving us rhetoric statements?

Interruptions

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I understand the hon. Member. Looking at the manner she has framed her question, it seems that there must be some aroma or visibility of representation back home in Lundazi. Nonetheless, I will answer the question. I will answer it to indicate that the so-called piecemeal is not actually piecemeal.

Mr Speaker, rehabilitating a stretch of 222 km at once is not a piecemeal approach. The 90 km stretch I mentioned is currently undergoing maintenance work before the new contractor comes on site to work on the whole stretch from Chipata to Magodi area. I think that being the area hon. Member of Parliament, she knows what I am talking about. I was on that road just three weeks ago. Rehabilitating the entire stretch of 485 km that was envisaged in her question is a function of funding. The money that was made available, which is US$381 million from the compact programme I mentioned, has been shared between the Chipata/Chama/Chipata/Lundazi/Magodi Road and the Landless Corner Road in Mumbwa. This is meant to spread projects and development across the country as the Government is looking for funding to complete other roads. This Government wants to be visible everywhere, unlike concentrating just in one place.

Mr Speaker, let me allay any fears by saying that the working New Dawn Government is aware of the challenges on the Msoro Road, which is in a deplorable state. This road links Chipata, Kasenengwa, Malambo and Mkaika. The ministry is paying particular attention to ensuring that the road is a priority in the pecking order of consideration when it comes to Government interventions.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.   

Ms Nakaponda (Isoka): Mr Speaker, the Chipata/Lundazi/Chama/Matumbo is an economic road which leads to Malawi. The Isoka/Mafinga and Sansamwenje/Kanyala are economic roads as well. What assurance is the hon. Minister giving the people of Lundazi and Isoka for them to believe that these roads are going to be worked on?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, the question was –

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

The question on the Order Paper is specific and is about Lundazi. However, you have gone off the subject.

Ms Nakaponda: Mr Speaker, the Isoka/Mafinga Road is connected to the Chipata/Lundazi/Chama/Matumbo Road. So, we are talking about the same road.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Maybe, the hon. Acting Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development can shed some light on that.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Isoka for that question. This gives me an opportunity to clarify and place emphasis on the fact that our actions speak louder than words. In my earlier statement, I indicated that the bidding process for the procurement of a contractor is already underway. By 18^th December, 2024, the process will close and the best bidder will be selected as the contractor for that road project. A loan agreement was signed publicly on 17^th October, 2024 at the Mulungushi International Conference Centre (MICC). On the same day, it was communicated to the rest of the nation that a portion of that money was going to be dedicated to deal with this particular road.

Mr Speaker, the assurance I can give the hon. Member for Isoka is that President Hakainde Hichilema, as we know, keeps his word. He has kept his word on free education, ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: ... retention of meal allowances for university students and restructuring of the national debt. He has also kept his promise on revitalising the mines. Today, Konkola Copper Mines (KCM), Mopani Copper Mines, 28 Shaft Mine and Lubambe Mine are all up and running. He has also resuscitated the Mulungushi Textiles Limited, just like he promised.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, the list is long. What I have highlighted is just the icing on the cake to remind hon. Colleagues that we have a President who delivers on promises and does not just give rhetoric political statements.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Nyirenda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Acting Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development talked about the Millennium Challenge Corporation, which is American. I cannot go on without celebrating the election victory of Donald Trump …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Nyirenda: … because the Americans are helping us to construct roads in Lundazi.

Ms Mulenga: One term President!

Ms Nyirenda: It is important to note that if this road is not worked on, alebwelelapo.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mapani: From the ceiling board!

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Lundazi, you may resume your seat.

Ms Mulenga: Ema MP’s aya!

Mr Mposha: You are failing to resolve issues with Miles Sampa. Miles Sampa alimichinga!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, instead of asking a question, you are talking about alebwelelapo, which does not exist in here. What do you mean?

Laughter

Interruptions

Ms Nyirenda: Mr Speaker, other people are talking!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Just ask your question.

Ms Nyirenda: Mr Speaker, the work being done at the moment on the Chipata/Lundazi Road is unsatisfactory. The hon. Minister was recently in Lundazi and things are still the same way as he left them. I have just come from Lundazi –

Interruptions

Ms Nyirenda: Mr Speaker, that is why the President says that the people around him tell him lies. I have just come from Lundazi and I want to state the truth.

Interruptions

Ms Nyirenda: Mr Speaker, I should be allowed to speak. I have just come from Lundazi. The hon. Minister inspected the works being done on that road and I am sure he was able to see that the contractor is still on the same spot. If the people working on that road can just work on 6 km in four months, when are they going to reach Lundazi?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker gave the Floor to Mr Mweetwa.

Mr Mapani: Hammer!

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Lundazi for her question, in which she asserts that the maintenance works, if I may qualify, on that road are not satisfactory. If she had followed me closely when I was giving the initial response to her question, she would have heard me clearly indicate that the funding we are talking about from the the Zambia Farm-to-Market Compact will deal with the entire stretch from Chipata to Magodi. This means that the works she is referring to have been overtaken by events because the new project will have to commence from Chipata to Magodi. So, that is the current situation. The funders of the new project were gracious enough to consider the entire stretch. The previous contract just dealt with maintenance works. So, let us wait and see what the contractor who will be given the lot for the 222 km will do.

Mr Speaker, I would like to assure the hon. Member that His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, reminds Cabinet and procuring agencies that they must adhere to the principle of the right price when procuring goods and services on behalf of the Government all the time. We must ensure quality in order to attain value for money and be able to deliver projects in a timely manner so that citizens can derive benefits from these projects. What the hon. Member has said is exactly what the President has been saying. I am happy she has been following him very well.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, I am sure the people of Lundazi are excited to hear those assurances today from the hon. Minister.

Mr Speaker, in answering this question, the hon. Minister went wide and talked about issues that are not in the question. He even touched on the Msoro Road, which starts from Chipata Central and goes through Kasenengwa, Malambo and into Mkaika. He indicated that the road is one of the priorities to be worked on. I know that the people of Kasenengwa right now are very excited and expectant after hearing this news.

Mr Speaker, last year, when the same question came up, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development said that there is a ten year plan. Today, the hon. Acting Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development indicated that the road in question is a priority project. How soon is that priority going to materialise? I am sure the people of Kasenengwa are eagerly waiting for that answer as they watch this discussion on their solar-powered televisions.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I would like to reiterate that the Msoro Road is within the bouquet of roads to be worked on in that particular region. The Government is paying close attention to the state of such roads because this area is highly economic due to agro-produce. It is essential for revitalising the economy of the Eastern Province and the country as a whole. So, it is one of the roads that are receiving the relevant attention.

Mr Speaker, similarly, we are now constructing the Katete/Chanida Road on the adjacent side. This is because of its economic importance to this country. So, roads such as the Msoro Road have economic importance and we are not shy to indicate that we know that it is not in a good state. It is in a deplorable state, but we are paying attention to it. As and when funds permit, this is one of the roads that are high on the pecking order in terms of priority.

I thank you, Sir.

OPERATIONALISATION OF THE CHABBOBBOMA IRRIGATION SCHEME

103. Mr Simuzingili (Gwembe) asked the Minister of Agriculture:

1. when the Government will operationalise the Chabbobboma Irrigation Scheme in Gwembe District;

1. what the cause of the delay in operationalising the scheme is; and

1. what short and long-term measures are being taken to mitigate the effects of drought in the Southern Province and other parts of the country.

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango) (on behalf of the Minister of Agriculture (Mr Mtolo)): Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to operationalise the Chabbobboma Irrigation Scheme in Gwembe District before the end of this year.

Mr Speaker, the cause of the delay in operationalising the scheme has been due to constrained financial resources.

Mr Speaker, as part of the short-term measures to mitigate the impact of drought in the Southern Province and other parts of the country, the African Development Bank (AfDB) is in the process of contracting a firm to provide certified solar-powered facilities for small-scale farmers and Gwembe District will be a beneficiary. The small-holder farmers have to be identified as a group requiring support with irrigation facilities and equipment to grow crops all year round. As part of the long-term measures to mitigate the impact of drought in the Southern Province and other parts of the country, the Government is in the process of identifying potential dam sites. The sites will be assessed and possibly developed into multipurpose dams for irrigation and other uses.

Mr Speaker, additionally, other areas will make use of ground water and solar-powered boreholes and will be equipped with appropriate irrigation facilities. The Government is also negotiating with Zambian banks to include irrigation on the Credit Window, which is the Sustainable Agriculture Financing Facility (SAFF). This is part of the Comprehensive Agriculture Support Programme (CASP) agenda. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kang’ombe: Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to ask Her Honour the Vice-President a supplementary question on the irrigation scheme in Gwembe. The Vice-President is aware that there are two ways of undertaking irrigation. One of the ways is to get water from a specific source and pump it into a farming area. However, the cost of solar equipment is hampering the ability of farmers to get water from where it has been harvested. Under the scheme in question, water will accumulate, but it has to be pumped into the farming blocks and that poses a challenge due to the cost of solar equipment. What is the Government doing to ensure that solar-powered equipment for irrigation is made affordable for farmers in Gwembe?

Mrs Nalumango: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for that important question. As he has explained, one of the challenges we have is that water needs energy for it to be of good use and the Government is aware of that fact. As regards the cost of solar equipment, the Government announced that solar energy components must be zero-rated. This is as one of the interventions that have been put in place. Solar energy should not just be made available, but accessible to people. So, the Government is working hard to ensure that the cost of solar components is zero-rated to reduce the cost of pumping water for farming.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Simuzingili: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank Her Honour the Vice-President for assuring the people of Gwembe that very soon the Chabbobboma Irrigation Scheme will be operational. Being a valley, the rains are not assured in Gwembe. Even this year, the prediction is that the rains in the valleys will start around December, which is worrying for us. Therefore, the Vice-President’s answer gives hope to the people of Gwembe.

NUMBER OF SCHOOLS FOR AUTISTIC CHILDREN COUNTRYWIDE

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Mr Speaker, allow me to congratulate Donald Trump. As a woman of God, I have been fasting and praying for him. So, I am very happy that he won the elections in the United States (US), as you can see from my face. I think, he is a real game changer in politics.

104. Rev. Katuta asked the Minister of Education:

1. how many special schools for autistic children were there, countrywide, as of March, 2024;

1. what the total number of trained teachers specialised in teaching autistic children, countrywide, was as of the date at (a); and

1. what measures are being taken to ensure that children living with autism attain full secondary education.

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima): Mr Speaker, as of March 2024, there were three special schools for autistic children countrywide. These are the Bauleni and University Teaching Hospital (UTH) Special Schools in Lusaka and St. Mulumba Special School in Choma.

Mr Speaker, the House may wish to note that there is a policy of inclusive education; an approach that ensures all children, regardless of their abilities or disabilities, have the right to equality education and learning opportunities. This intervention includes children with autism spectrum disorder (ASD), a neurological and developmental disorder that affects communication, social interaction and behaviour. Learners with minor autism are in the mainstream of education. There is a comprehensive effort to ensure that all children learn and grow side by side, a scenario that benefits all. In addition, children with severe and profound cases of autism are enrolled in special schools and units.

Mr Speaker, there was no single trained teacher specialised in neurodevelopmental disorder to teach autistic children in the country as of March 2024. This is due to the fact that currently teacher training does not consider autism as a standalone course, but is taught as a topic under education for children with intellectual disabilities. However, the Government has been orienting teachers on how to teach learners with autism in all the special schools and units countrywide.

Mr Speaker, the Government has implemented various initiatives and strategies to support children with autism in accessing and succeeding in secondary education. These efforts encompass policy reforms, enhanced teacher training, inclusive practices and collaboration with communities and partners.

Mr Speaker, the Government has come up with key areas of action. The actions include policy adjustments, curriculum revisions and inclusive teacher recruitment, whereby a 10 per cent allocation is reserved for teachers with disabilities. If this quota is unmet, teachers with special education qualifications are prioritised to enhance learning for children with disabilities.

Mr Speaker, we are also implementing the recruitment of support staff for special schools, teacher training and support, inclusive classroom practices and providing accessible learning materials. We also have parental involvement, peer support programmes and anti-bullying measures. Furthermore, we are undertaking community partnerships and collaborations with partners and non-Governmental Organisations (NGOs).

Mr Speaker, we have embarked on screening tools developed in collaboration with the United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF) and Sight Savers Zambia in early identification of disabilities. Trained teachers facilitate this process to ensure appropriate support is provided. We also have provincial assessment centres for transition planning and strengthening special education units. We are also carrying out sensitisation campaigns on special education needs.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Rev. Katuta: Mr Speaker, we need to admit that we have failed the people living with disabilities in this country, including those with autism. Therefore, it is my prayer that the Government will give us something new in future.

Mr Speaker, we have just been informed by the hon. Minister that there are only three schools for children with autism in the whole country. That is heart-breaking because we have been side-lining such children. Why would we have only three special schools in the entire country? What about a child with a disability in Chienge? Which school is he or she going to be taken to? Why is it that we have paid little attention to such children when their parents have nowhere to take them? I have been informed that we only have one public school for children with special needs. The rest are privately-owned and are most likely unaffordable for many people. I want to know why we have neglected children who are autistic.

Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, it could be a legacy problem, but I think she is right. Simply speaking, we should take better care of autistic and generally disabled children. The autistic children are mildly disabled and are integrated into our mainstream education system. Those who are severely disabled are in separate schools, the ones I talked about located in Bauleni and at UTH. We also have the St. Mulumba Special School in Choma. However, I believe we can do more because the population we had in the 1970’s is not the same as what we have now. There are quite a number of autistic children now. I think we need to put our minds on this problem as it is growing in Zambia.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Tayengwa: Mr Speaker, the statistics for children living with autism have gone up. My worry is the issue to do with private schools. There are some private schools that are enrolling such children without engaging teachers who understand special needs and are charging exorbitant fees. Such private schools are dotted around Lusaka and are exploiting parents. I want to know what measures the ministry is putting in place to ensure that parents with children who have autism are not exploited when it comes to education.

Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, I can only borrow what the hon. Member for Chienge said that teaching children with disabilities is complex. We need to have many more Government-owned special schools to handle the problem because it requires a rare skill for one to teach a child with autism. In most cases, it is a complex neurodevelopmental condition that affects social interaction, communication, interest and behaviour. Autism is typically diagnosed in early childhood and its symptoms can vary widely among individuals. We just need to scale-up the building of Government-owned special schools to handle the problem. Although it is a skill which seems hard to acquire, it is worth trying to help the children who are born that way.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Rev. Katuta: Mr Speaker, as a member of the Executive, is the hon. Minister able to confirm whether we can borrow the special needs curriculum used for children in South Africa and Zimbabwe. In South Africa, there are special needs schools which are Government-sponsored. In addition, private schools and hospitals for special needs are given grants. In Zambia, however, some autistic children are intelligent and would want to become lawyers or accountants, but they cannot achieve their dreams. So, can we borrow the curriculum used in South Africa so that even the teachers are trained? There are no courses currently offered in our country for teaching such children. The number of disabled children is getting bigger, especially in rural areas. We have become hopeless because we do not know what to say to the parents of such children.

 

Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, in my earlier response, I talked about the curriculum. The Zambia Education Curriculum Framework for 2013 has been updated to recognise the thirteen categories of special education, including autism. We can check what is happening in other countries, but we must have a home-grown curriculum. When we talk about rural areas, it is important to note that rural areas in Zambia are affected differently. So, we need to factor in environmental issues when it comes to this problem.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Amutike (Mongu Central): Mr Speaker, on behalf of the people of Mongu Central, I would like to congratulate President Trump for his re-election. As I do that, I want to remind the Zambian people that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government holds the record of having expelled President Trump’s ambassador from this country.

Laughter

Mr Amutike: So, he is coming back for the PF.

Mr Speaker, the people of Mongu want to know whether the Government has any plans to increase the number of special schools that can accommodate children with challenges such as autism.

Interruptions

Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to increase the number of schools to handle autism.

I thank you, Mr Speaker. 

Mr Kang’ombe: Mr Speaker, allow me to thank the hon. Member for Chienge for bringing up such an important question relating to children who have challenges to acquire education because of lack of teachers to help them develop as any other child growing up in Zambia.

Mr Speaker, I am aware that there is an association called the National Autism Association of Zambia (NAAZ) which focuses on lobbying for things such as what we are discussing here, which include infrastructure and the right teaching methodology. We basically already have the right stakeholder that the ministry needs to sit down with and see how we can move together to resolve the problems associated with autism.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has mentioned three special needs schools, but I know that we must have more than that around the country. I remember that when I was growing up in Kitwe, we had a class at Rokana Basic School that was dedicated to interventions related to disabilities.

Mr Speaker, is the ministry considering taking a similar path in its early childhood development programme? For instance, one class in specific public schools in Lusaka can be annexed and dedicated to autistic children. That is a step that the ministry can quickly take even now. The ministry can designate a few classes in particular schools to provide special needs education. Has the ministry considered that option because that is something that NAAZ has been lobbying for? The Government can annex particular classes out of a few schools for that purpose and it does not need to be done at every school in the country. That way, the question of availability of trained teachers for special education can be attended to.

Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, the Government is already annexing classes, not specifically for autistic children, but for disabilities. Autism is quite a complex condition, if we can call it that. I am afraid of labeling it a disease, but it is a complex problem. I think, the idea of annexing certain classes for special education is beneficial to every disabled child.

I thank you, Sir.

RELOCATION OF ZAMBIA CORRECTIONAL SERVICE HEADQUARTERS FROM KABWE TO LUSAKA

105. Mr Mushanga (Bwacha) asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security:

1. what the rationale for the relocation of the Zambia Correctional Service Headquarters from Kabwe District to Lusaka District was;

1. whether the decision to relocate the headquarters was in conformity with the National Decentralisation Policy;

1. if so, whether a survey was conducted in order to ascertain the adverse effects of relocating the headquarters; and

1. whether the Government has any plans to rescind its decision.

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu, SC.): Mr Speaker, with your indulgence, I would like to congratulate the President-elect of the United States of America (USA).

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: The United Party for National Development does not believe in politics of expedience. Our hon. Colleagues on your left are always accusing us of being stooges of the West and that we are always associating with imperialists.

Hon. Opposition Members: Awe takuli!

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Surprisingly, the Opposition is today congratulating our friend.

Rev. Katuta: Kuya bebele!

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: The Americans are friends of the hon. Members on your right side, but we are always told that we are stooges. So, the Opposition is congratulating us together with the USA.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Mr Speaker, by the way, the party colour of the Republicans is red, just like that of our party.

Hon. Opposition Members: Awe!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Mr Speaker, the Zambia Correctional Service Headquarters were relocated from Kabwe to Lusaka to, among other issues, reduce on operational costs associated with frequent travel of staff to and from Lusaka. The costs related to fuel, servicing and repairing of operational vehicles due to wear and tear as well as allowances. Further, there was great exposure of officers to road carnage risks as most, if not all, strategic activities were conducted in Lusaka. The relocation has brought about a positive effect on the efficient delivery of services and implementation of programmes. This is due to gains in man-hours and productivity as officers no longer spend a lot of time traveling to and from Lusaka.

Mr Speaker, the House may wish to note that the rank structure of the controlling officers of the institution has been adjusted upwards from Commissioner to Commissioner-General. By implication, the Commissioner-General is a Service Chief and a member of the Central Joint Operations Committee (CJOC), Defence Council and the Zambia National Service Advisory Council. This implies that the Commissioner-General is obliged to fully participate in national and ceremonial events and other matters of urgent security nature. If the headquarters had remained in Kabwe, the Commissioner-General and associated staff would have been making frequent trips to and from Lusaka.

Mr Speaker, the Zambia Correctional Service has representation in all the ten provinces of the country and in most districts. In this regard, access to services offered by the institution has not in any way been negatively affected.

Mr Speaker, the decision to relocate the headquarters to Lusaka does not by any means go against the National Decentralisation Policy, which aspires to take services closer to the people. The action has not disrupted operations and administration of prisons and correctional centres both at provincial and district levels.

Mr Speaker, an internal analysis was conducted to determine if there would be any adverse effect by relocating the headquarters from Kabwe to Lusaka. The analysis shows that the option not to relocate the headquarters to Lusaka was undesirable as it made operations and administration too costly.

Mr Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to rescind its decision and relocate the headquarters back to Kabwe.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mushanga: Mr Speaker, I am very thankful to the hon. Minister for the responses he has provided to the question.

Mr Speaker, I would like to know if the Government considered the impact that the movement of the Zambia Correctional Service Headquarters would cause on the people of Kabwe and the local economy. There were a number of local people who were doing business with the Zambia Correctional Service. After the relocation of the headquarters from Kabwe to Lusaka, many of these people have been affected adversely.

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Mr Speaker, I would like to state that there has not been any disruption whatsoever pertaining to economic activities in Kabwe due to that decision. The hon. Member may not be aware, but the Mukobeko Maximum Prison is the biggest correctional facility we have in Zambia and it has remained in Kabwe. We also have the Mpima Prison, prison farms and milling plant all still in Kabwe. The Government has merely relocated a lean staff associated with the Commissioner-General, but the other operations of the institution have remained in Kabwe.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Speaker, I appreciate the responses by the hon. Minister regarding this question. As he said, most activities of the Zambia Correctional Service, such as agriculture activities in Nansanga and other big projects, have remained in the Central Province. However, my concern is the challenge of accommodation when allocating housing units that the Government has built for men and women in uniform. When the headquarters were in the Central Province, the houses of the correctional service catered mostly for high ranking officers, which is a top priority. So, how is the Government addressing that aspect?

Mr Speaker, we have to bear in mind that most officers in the command structure were accommodated in modern housing infrastructure and they have now moved to Lusaka. How is the Government dealing with that situation?

Mr Speaker, we have to remember that this is not the first time that this is happening because the Patriotic Front (PF) Government also moved the headquarters of the Zambia Correctional Service. The challenge that the PF Government had with the relocation is the same one that the hon. Minister has alluded to; senior officers shuttling back and forth between Kabwe and Lusaka. We also experienced a number of road traffic accidents involving senior officers of the institution. So, how is the Government addressing that, knowing that some officers will definitely still have to traverse between Kabwe and Lusaka?

Mr Mwiimbu, SC: Mr Speaker, I thank my hon. Colleague for that question. He has acknowledged the difficulties that correctional service officers experienced during the time he was in my current portfolio. He is aware of the inconvenience of officers having to travel from Kabwe to Lusaka every now and then.

Mr Speaker, we have taken note of the issues raised by the hon. Member. Even in their submissions to my office pertaining to relocation, the officers factored in the issue of accommodation, but they have been catered for. The Government is aware that under the conditions that are currently obtaining, officers who are not housed are entitled to a housing allowance. The officers have not complained and are happy about that situation. The houses that they left in Kabwe are occupied by other equally senior officers at the Zambia Correctional Service in Kabwe.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker gave the Floor to Mr Fube.

Interruptions

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, can I be protected from those who are barking.

Laughter

Mr Fube: Mr Speaker, before I ask my question, I would like to follow suit and congratulate the people of the United States of America (USA), which is referred to as the biggest democracy in the world. I would also like to congratulate the President-elect of the USA.

Mr Speaker, aah –

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Fube: Wechikopo!

Mr Speaker, aah, I would like to ask –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, what did you say?

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, resume your seat.

Mr Fube: Mr Speaker, I was talking to those who are making noise –

Interruptions

Mr Fube resumed his seat.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member said something that I did not hear. However, whatever he said, I will retrieve the verbatim to check if it is something not in good taste. If it requires urgent attention, it will be treated as such.

Hon. Members, let as avoid passing running comments unnecessarily.

Mr Fube interjected.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, resume your seat.

Mr Fube resumed his seat.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The Business of the House was being transacted in a very sober manner. However, the moment the hon. Member for Chilubi stood up, everything seemed to be disrupted.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Awe! He asked for protection.

Mr Fube rose.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, resume your seat.

Mr Fube resumed his seat.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: At times, it is not good to –

Mr Fube: Mr Speaker, I asked for protection, but I did not get it.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Withdraw the word you used.

Mr Fube: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the word, but when I seek for protection, I need to be protected. We are all equal in this House.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, proceed with your question.

Mr Fube resumed his seat.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Anyway, I will call on the next hon. Member to ask a question, but I will review what has just happened. I directed the hon. Member to ask his question, but he did not follow the instruction. So, I will personally –

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Chienge can go ahead.

Rev. Katuta: Mr Speaker, we are enjoying having utumbuyas in the House from the Eastern Province and North-West Province. I think the hon. Minister should allow the law of – not polygamy, but what is it called? That way, women from Bemba land can have men from the Eastern Province and the Lozis.

Mr Speaker, aah, I would like to know –

Mr Kangombe: It seems ‘aah’ is contagious.

Laughter

Rev. Katuta: Hon. Kangombe, please, napapata.

Mr Speaker, I seek clarification from the hon. Acting Minister of Justice. Was the relocation of the Zambia Correctional Service Headquarters to Lusaka, as stated in the question, done for decentralisation purposes? I would like the hon. Minister to elaborate why we should have the headquarters and maximum prison in two different places if we are trying to cut down on expenses. Why have we changed from what has been happening since the time of the United National Independence Party (UNIP) Government and Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government?

Mr Mwiimbu, SC: Mr Speaker, I seek your guidance. The hon. Member has asked the hon. Minister of Justice the question. Does she want me to answer on behalf of the hon. Minister of Justice?

Rev. Katuta: Mr Speaker, I believe the Zambia Correctional Service is under the Ministry of Justice.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

The Zambia Correctional Service is under the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Rev. Katuta: Mr Speaker, in that case, the question is directed to the Minister of Home Affairs –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: And Internal Security.

Rev. Katuta: It is not ‘home security’?

Hon. Members: Internal Security.

Rev. Katuta: Oh, it is ‘Internal Security’.

Mr Speaker, why has the hon. Minister transferred the headquarters of the Zambia Correctional Service to Lusaka, but some officers have been left in Kabwe? I would like to know why things have been changed from what was there previously.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu, SC: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Chienge has asked why the Zambia Correctional Service Headquarters have been moved from Kabwe, where a maximum prison is. For the hon. Member’s information, Mukobeko Prison is not the only maximum prison that this country has. There is another maximum prison in Mwembeshi, west of Lusaka. Those are the maximum prisons that the country has.

Mr Speaker, what the Government has decided to do is to ensure that it streamlines the operations of the Zambia Correctional Service. Kabwe was difficult to access for other units in the country. Whenever senior officers went to Kabwe for certain matters, they would usually be referred to Lusaka because that is where the hon. Ministry of Finance and National Planning and other associated security institutions are.

Mr Speaker, to streamline the operations of the Zambia Correctional Service, we decided to bring its headquarters to Lusaka. This is not the first time this has been done. It was done even under the PF Government and Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government. However, we have streamlined in a more efficient manner such that the officers and all the operational units of the institution are happy with what we have done and Hon. Kampyongo can confirm that.

Mr Kampyongo rose.

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Do not stand.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Mr Speaker, during the time of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government, we saw the headquarters of Zamtel Limited moved from Ndola to Lusaka. What has happened is that the beautiful buildings of Zamtel Limited in Ndola are now ghost structures. You cannot even tell that that is where Zamtel Headquarters were. In the industrial area where the workshop for Zamtel Limited was, the place has been turned into restaurants. Things are not the same as they used to be when Zamtel Limited Headquarters were based in Copperbelt Province.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security has moved the Zambia Correctional Service Headquarters from Kabwe to Lusaka. You may agree with me that the Zambia Railways Limited in Kabwe is not doing well. If I am not mistaken, the headquarters have, maybe, been moved to Lusaka.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has mentioned that certain measures have been put in place to deal with the relocation. I want to understand what measures have been implemented. I hope that the procurement office has not been moved from Kabwe to Lusaka because the Zambia Correctional Service offices in Kabwe will now be irrelevant. The Zambia Correctional Service is very important for the people of Kabwe. So, what measures have been put in place because we do not want to see a repeat of what happened to Zamtel Limited in Ndola?

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Mr Speaker, as I indicated earlier, we have only moved the office of the Commissioner-General and supporting staff. The main operations of the Zambia Correctional Service have remained in Kabwe. As I said, the Mukobeko Maximum Prison has remained there. There are about three prisons in Kabwe. We also have the Kalonga Milling Plant and our main farms in Kabwe and other parts of the Central Province. So, other operations of the institution have not been affected by the relocation of the headquarters. I emphasise that the main thrust of correctional services has remained in Kabwe.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chisanga (Lukashya): Mr Speaker, at the risk of being challenged by hon. Colleagues on your right, I want to join hon. Colleagues on your left who have congratulated the American President-elect, Donald Trump, for returning to office for his second term.

Mr Speaker, what are the key indicators that were considered to make sure that the core business of the Zambia Correctional Service facilities remained intact? What has really moved is the administrative functions and most of the activities will remain in Kabwe. So, what could be the linkage between those who will be operating from Lusaka and those in Kabwe to ensure that the core business is not affected?

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member may not be aware that we have correctional service centres in all the provinces of Zambia. As I indicated earlier, what we did was to centralise so that the provincial centres can have easy access to the headquarters.

Mr Speaker, I wish to repeat that we have recognised that the Zambia Correctional Service is part of the security wings of the Government. The CJOC usually meets weekly in Lusaka. It was difficult for the head of the Zambia Correctional Service to be traversing from Kabwe to Lusaka almost on a daily basis. So, we thought it appropriate that the headquarters are moved to Lusaka so that there is close liaison between the Zambia Correctional Service and other security wings. That was the central point and issue.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Katambo (Masaiti) Mr Speaker, streamlining the operations of the Zambia Correctional Service is quite an expensive undertaking. In the process, over 300 officers have been moved. As the hon. Minister has affirmed, the major operations of the institution are in Kabwe. So, how much was spent in undertaking the relocation in question? This has been in the past, so the hon. Minister is able to tell the people of Masaiti how much was spent in undertaking the exercise.

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Mr Speaker, that question was not anticipated. So, it is not one of those we are going to answer. However, if my hon. Colleague still wants an answer, he can file in a question and we will respond.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Shakafuswa (Mandevu): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security has mentioned that correctional service officers are receiving housing allowances since they have no institutional accommodation here in Lusaka. There is a reason security officers are usually kept in camps away from civilians. Are the plans to construct houses for the staff that has been moved to Lusaka?

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Mr Speaker, I just want to state that even under the first phase pertaining to the construction of offices and houses for officers, we constructed houses in Lusaka and Mwembezhi. So, some of the officers will be accommodated in some of those facilities.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mushanga: Mr Speaker, the general feeling of the people of Kabwe, especially the business community and particularly the Kabwe Chamber of Commerce and Industry (KCCI), is that stakeholder’s engagement was not done by the Government through the ministry. As hon. Members of Parliament, we represent main interest groupings in our constituencies. This afternoon, the hon. Minister has indicated in this House, and to the general public out there, that the Government through his ministry undertook stakeholder’s engagements. Which stakeholders in Kabwe were engaged before the relocation or transfer of the Zambia Correctional Service Headquarters from Kabwe to Lusaka? Furthermore, why did the ministry not just transfer the office of the Commissioner-General and leave the rest of the headquarters in Kabwe? That is the general feeling of the people of Kabwe District.

Mr Amutike: It is your feeling.

Mr Mushanga: You are not from Kabwe, so just behave yourself.

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Mr Speaker, my statement was very categorical. I did not indicate in my statement that there was wide consultation. I did not mention that and I have the statement with me here.

Mr Speaker, as I indicated earlier, we have only relocated a few officers who are under the office of the Commissioner-General. The bulk of the operations of the Zambia Correctional Service has remained in Kabwe. That is how things stand. However, I have noted that my hon. Colleague is proposing that we should just relocate the office of the Commissioner-General, but that is what we have basically done. Only those officers who are working with the Commissioner-General have been relocated. The main thrust of the operations has remained in Kabwe.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

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MOTIONS

MOTION OF SUPPLY

(Debate resumed)

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to make a few important comments on the Report of the Expanded Planning and Budgeting Committee on the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for the Financial Year 1^st January to 31^st December, 2025. I thank the chairperson of your Committee for providing that report to us.

Mr Speaker, before I go into details, I wish to remind hon. Members of Parliament that there are three functions that we are supposed to perform. The first function is to make laws. Our second function is to provide oversight on the Executive. Our third function is to approve the National Budget. I will tender my debate based on those three important functions that I need to perform and I wish to thank the people of Kamfinsa, and the wider majority of this country, for the opportunity accorded me to represent them in this House.

Mr Speaker, we have a Budget that needs our support and I am happy that your Committee’s Report has been formatted in a way that everyone is able to understand as we debate this Motion. I hope hon. Members of Parliament are able see what is at the top of page 3 of the report. Table 1 on that page shows four economic indicators. These economic indicators are simply showing how our economy performed for the last one year and our target objectives for 2025.

Mr Speaker, in highlighting the performance of the economy, I want to quickly look at the gross domestic product (GDP). The Government‘s target was for our economy to grow by 6 per cent, but it only grew by 2.2 per cent for a full year. Inflation is currently at 15.6 per cent. This is contained in the report of your Committee and I am not cooking up figures. The exchange rate, which is indicated in the third roll in the table, shows an average of K26.5 against US$1. The budget deficit is currently at 6.4 per cent. That is how our economy is performing and we have set targets for 2025.

Mr Speaker, I will quickly refer this august House to how we are going to finance our Budget. The Budget has to be financed somehow and I will make this conversation easy for people to follow. One of the ways in which we are funding our Budget is by issuing what are called Government securities. The Bank of Zambia (BoZ) will announce that those who have money and want to lend it to the Government can go and buy Government bonds.

Mr Speaker, I do not know if you are aware, but most Government bonds issued by BoZ have not been performing well lately. I am saying that in the context of how much money BoZ wants to borrow locally. Now, why am I bringing this issue into this conversation? It is simply to show that if people are not interested in buying Government bonds, then we are going to have a challenge with financing our Budget. If we cannot finance our Budget, it means that all the Heads that are appearing in the Yellow Book will not be adequately funded. Therefore, we might have a challenge in providing public services to our people. I want to emphasise that if people cannot buy Government bonds or are unwilling to lend money to the Government, it simply means that we are going to have a problem financing our Budget. That is point number one.

Mr Speaker, I was hoping that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning would be available today to respond to some of these very important issues. Budget financing is likely to be affected next year. This is because, so far, the number of people willing to buy Government securities has gone down, unfortunately. I think this is an important issue. So, I hope that the Leader of Government Business in the House has taken note of this particular issue so that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning can respond to it at the end of the Motion. We do not want to come back next year only to be told that, unfortunately, the Budget cannot be funded. So, the first point is that looking at how the economy has been performing, the lack of liquidity and people not willing to lend money to the Government, we might have a problem with funding the 2025 Budget.

Mr Speaker, the second observation I want to make is with reference to the performance of our economy currently. The performance of our economy since last year is based on the cost of borrowing. We have a challenge right now which I believe no one has raised in this House. This is the issue of how much it costs for people to borrow money. I do not want to mention any banks here, but if you went to any of the top five commercial banks in Zambia, you will be told that borrowing money will cost you 33 per cent per annum. The 33 per cent is not simple interest, but compound interest. This means that the cost of borrowing is going up every month. One bank you will tell you that since other banks are charging 33 per cent, its interest rate is 32 per cent. The lowest interest rate for borrowing money in Zambia at the moment is around 27.5 per cent.

Mr Speaker, I am mentioning these facts because the Government has referred to macroeconomic indicators. The cost of borrowing affects the ability of people to run businesses in our economy. Therefore, we are not going to achieve macroeconomic indicators we have projected. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning wants our economy to grow by 6.6 per cent. With the way things are moving, I do not see us achieving that 6.6 per cent. Is this Christopher Kang’ombe’s wish? The answer is no. Last year, we only grew our economy by 2.3 per cent. In this regard, we need to start making reference to what the economic indicators are pointing out. They are pointing out the fact that we are not going to attain key macroeconomic targets.

Mr Speaker, since we are debating the Budget, I want to challenge the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. We are debating money that has to be raised to support public services. In the absence of us attaining the projected macroeconomic indicators and the continued challenges in the energy sector, we need to find interventions for solving these problems. My submission, therefore, is that we need concerted efforts to resolve these challenges.

Mr Speaker, due to the limitation of time, I wish to end by saying that the people of Kamfinsa support the proposed figures in the Budget.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I want to remind the House that ten days have been allocated for the debate on this Motion. That gives you ample time to study the Budget and look at the Report of the Expanded Planning and Budgeting Committee, which will help you interrogate the Budget. The report has a lot of information that will help you formulate your debate effectively. I urge the Whips to encourage hon. Members to come up with very informative debates.

(Debate adjourned)

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

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The House adjourned at 1631 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 7^th November, 2024.

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