Tuesday, 3rd December, 2024

Tuesday, 3^rd December, 2024

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM SPEAKER

ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members,I have received communication to the effect that in the absence of Her Honour the Vice-President, who is attending to other Government Business, the Minister of Defence Hon. Ambrose L. Lufuma, MP, has been appointed Acting Leader of Government Business in the House from today, Tuesday, 3^rd December, 2024, until further notice.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

PRESENCE IN THE PUBLIC GALLERY OF YOUTHS FROM THE URBAN FUTURE PROJECT UNDER THE CONSUMER UNIT AND TRUST SOCIETY INTERNATIONAL

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence in the Public Gallery of youths from the Urban Future Project under the Consumer Unit and Trust Society International, Chongwe District.

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

I thank you.

MINERALS REGULATION COMMISSION BILL

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, you will recall that on Thursday, 1^st August, 2024, the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development deferred the consideration at Committee Stage of the Minerals Regulation Commission Bill No. 1 of 2024 to a later date to allow for further consultations. I wish to inform the House that during the period of deferment, some hon. Members expressed interest to move more amendments to the Bill.

In this regard, and in order to accommodate all hon. Members wishing to move amendments, I wish to guide the House as follows:

resumption of consideration of the Committee Stage of the Minerals Regulation Commission Bill is now scheduled for Thursday, 5^th December, 2024;

consideration at Committee Stage of the Bill will start afresh. This entails that any amendments that were earlier circulated will have to be re-submitted together with any other amendments;

any hon. Member who wishes to move amendments shall submit their proposed amendments to the Legal Services Department; and

all proposed amendments must be submitted to the Legal Services Department by 1000 hours tomorrow, Wednesday, 4^th December, 2024.

I urge all hon. Members who wish to submit proposed amendments to adhere to the stipulated timeline.

I thank you.

PLENARY ASSEMBLY SESSION OF THE SOUTHERN AFRICAN DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY PARLIAMENTARY FORUM

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that the National Assembly of Zambia will host the 56^th Plenary Assembly Session of the Southern African Development Community Parliamentary Forum (SADC-PF) from 8^th to 15^th December, 2024, in Livingstone.

As host Speaker, and in furtherance of my commitment to creating platforms for engaging stakeholders to discuss challenges and solutions faced by female parliamentarians and women and girls in general, I will hold, on the margins of the 56^th Plenary Assembly, a special networking dinner indaba for all female Speakers and parliamentarians who will be in attendance. The dinner will be held on 12^th December, 2024. The aim of the indaba is to discuss and find common platforms for reducing the challenges faced by women and girls, as well as the opportunities for the retention of female parliamentarians.

I thank you.

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URGENT MATTERS WITHOUT NOTICE

MR MUMBA, THE HON. MEMBER FOR KANTANSHI, ON MR LUFUMA, THE ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE, ON THE GUIDELINES FOR USAGE OF THE TANZANIA-ZAMBIA MAFUTA PIPELINE BY FUEL INDUSTRY PLAYERS

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, I raise a Matter of Urgent Public Importance directed to the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House on behalf of the people of Kantanshi.

Madam Speaker: You may proceed, hon. Member for Kantanshi.

Mr Mumba: With pleasure, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, the primary responsibility for us in the Opposition is to assist the people in the Government to take corrective measures as they run the country. When they do so, we want to share the success story.

Madam Speaker, three or four days ago, the price of fuel was increased. One of the reasons for the increment was the transportation cost, not the volatility of the Kwacha, the exchange rate, or the price of oil on the international market. That has already been covered in the Statutory Instrument (SI) that Her Honour the Vice-President announced last week. The specifics of this matter are that when the Tanzania-Zambia Mafuta (TAZAMA) pipeline was worked on in order for us to have cheaper fuel, the guidelines for its usage were never made available. The Government has now made them available so that there is optimal use by various players on the market in the petroleum sub-sector to provide us cheaper fuel.

Madam Speaker, with this development, and considering that the price of fuel has played a very big role in disturbing our inflation rate, as announced by the Zambia Statistics Agency (Zamstats), would it not be ideal for the hon. Minister of Energy to share the guidelines with us, so that the players on the market can draw confidence that the Government has listened to them?

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious indulgence on this very important economic matter.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much, hon. Member for Kantanshi. I suggest you file a question, which the hon. Minister of Energy can come and answer.

MR MUTALE, THE HON. MEMBER FOR CHITAMBO, ON MR LUFUMA, THE HON. MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE, ON GENERATOR SETS PLACED IN MARKETS BY ZESCO LIMITED

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, the Urgent Matter Without Notice is directed to the hon. Minister of Defence and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House, since the hon. hon. Minister of Energy is not yet in the House.

Madam Speaker, my Urgent Matter Without Notice is on the generator sets that were installed in markets by ZESCO Limited. That was a very good plan to assist our people who are running small businesses, such as salons, barbershops, and welding shops. People expected to use the generator sets very well. For sure, the programme to install the generator sets was very good, and people were very happy. I witnessed this when I went to some compounds here, in Lusaka, like Garden Compound and Mandevu Compound, where generator sets were installed. Now, ZESCO Limited has announced that it may not, or will not, continue running the generator sets because the cost is very high. This will take our people back to where they were at the time they did not have the generator sets.

Madam Speaker, is the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House in order to sit quietly without explaining what is really going on so that the general public is clear on the matter? People need to know whether it is true that ZESCO Limited will stop running the generator sets and install solar panels.

Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much, hon. Member for Chitambo. I suggest that you file a question because that matter does not qualify to be admitted as an Urgent Matter Without Notice.

MR C. CHIBUYE, THE HON. MEMBER FOR MKUSHI NORTH, ON MR MTOLO, THE HON. MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, ON THE SUSTAINABLE AGRICULTURE FINANCING FACILITY

Mr C. Chibuye (Mkushi North): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for according me this chance to raise an Urgent Matter Without Notice. My matter is directed to the hon. Minister of Agriculture.

Madam Speaker, as you are aware, farming is time-bound. Rain-fed farming is actually time-bound. The Urgent Matter Without Notice I am raising concerns the Sustainable Agriculture Financing Facility (SAFF). In Mkushi, farmers who are supposed to get loans from the facility received booklets, but to date, there is no indication as to whether they will get inputs. There is no response from banks and the ministry as to whether the farmers will receive inputs. Time is ticking; today is 3^rd December, 2024. Farmers need to know when they will plant or how they are going to conduct their activities in the farming season.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister willing to update the House and the nation at large as to how the loan will be provided to our farmers? That way, they will plan well and plant before the time elapses.

Madam Speaker: I am not sure whether a similar question was raised some time last week, and the hon. Member was advised to file an urgent question. Maybe, the Clerk can remember.

The Clerkindicated assent.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, file an urgent question, which the hon. Minister will answer.

Thank you. Let us make progress.

Apologies, hon. Member for Mwandi. We can have only three Urgent Matters Without Notice. I wanted to use my discretion and allow a female hon. Member to raise a matter, but I just followed the sequence of indications.

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MOTIONS

SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES NO. 2 OF 2024

The Minister of Technology and Science (Mr Mutati) (on behalf of the Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane)): Madam Speaker, I beg to present the Supplementary Estimates No. 2 of 2024.

Madam Speaker, in accordance with Article 203 of the Constitution, where the amount appropriated in an Appropriation Act is insufficient to meet expenditures in that financial year, the hon. Minister responsible for finance is expected …

Mr Kafwaya: Question!

Mr Mutati: … to lay before the National Assembly for approvable, the Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure.

Madam Speaker, by virtue of the authority conveyed in the article of the Constitution quoted above, I now present the Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure No. 2 of 2024. The total Supplementary Budget I present today stands at K11.8 billion.

Madam Speaker, allow me to bring out the notable proposed expenditure allocations contained in this Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure. Out of the recommended K11.8 billion, 53 per cent –

Mr Kafwaya interjected.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Lunte, please, I can hear your comments even from here. You are distracting us from listening to what the Acting hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is saying. So, please, tone down.

May the Acting hon. Minister Continue.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, out of the recommended K11.8 billion, 53 per cent or K6.3 billion will be dedicated to constitutional and statutory expenditure to meet the cost of domestic debt service. At the point of formulating the 2024 Budget, domestic debt service was budgeted at K32.9 billion. The out-turn has, however, proved to the contrary as domestic debt service is now projected to reach K38 billion by year end December 2024, owing to improved performance on both Treasury Bills and the Government bond auctions, which necessitated a higher out-turn over and above the offer amount in order to facilitate drawdowns to support the Budget. The uptake rate of over and above the offered amounts implied an increase in debt service, particularly on Treasury Bills than earlier projected. Further, 42 per cent or K4.8 billion has been allocated to loans and investments for dismantling of outstanding bills and debt swaps to the Zambia Telecommunications Company Limited (Zamtel) and Ndola Energy Company Limited.

Madam Speaker, due to exchange rate losses, 2.4 per cent or K277 million of this Supplementary Budget will be channelled towards the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Internal Cooperation to meet the cost of overseas allowances to missions abroad. You may wish to note that missions abroad receive their remunerations in United States (US) Dollars, and owing to the exchange losses experienced during the calendar year, the initial budgeted figure, which was pegged at K19 per US$1, has been depleted. Hence a proposal for an additional appropriation to meet the expenditure requirement.

Madam Speaker, this Supplementary Budget includes some donor support of 1.4 per cent or K162.6 million from the World Bank to Smart Zambia Institute. These funds are meant for actualising the Digital Zambia Acceleration Project (DZAP) aimed at expanding Internet, enhancing digitally enabled services and strengthening the country’s digital infrastructure. In addition, the Supplementary Budget will be supported by additional resources of 1.2 per cent or K150 million coming in as Skills Development Fund. These funds, which are over and above the budgeted collection, will be channeled towards the Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneur Training (TEVET) institutions.

Madam Speaker, lastly, K8.1 million of the supplementary estimates are carry-over funds or unspent balances from the 2023 financial year.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: The estimates stand referred to the Expanded Planning and Budgeting Committee for consideration. The Committee is required to submit its report on the estimates to the House by Friday, 6^th December, 2024.

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BILL

FIRST READING

THE GEOLOGICAL AND MINERALS DEVELOPMENT BILL, 2024

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Kabuswe): Madam Speaker, I beg to move a Bill entitled the Geological and Minerals Development Bill No. 33 of 2024. The objects of the Bill are to:

provide for the geological survey, mapping and exploration of minerals in the Republic;

provide for the establishment of the Artisanal and Small-Scale Mining Fund;

provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing; and

provide for local content regulations for preferential thresholds for local suppliers in awarding of contracts for supply of goods and services in the mining sector.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on National Economy, Trade and Labour Matters. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House in due course. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

I thank you.

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

NON-PAYMENT OF SALARY ARREARS FOR ZAMPOST EMPLOYEES

143. Mr Simumba (Nakonde) asked the Minister of Technology and Science:

whether the Government is aware that ZAMPOST workers are failing to meet their daily needs due to non-payment of their salaries for the past six months; and

if so, what urgent measures are being taken to pay the workers their salary arrears.

The Minister of Technology and Science (Mr Mutati): Madam Speaker, the Government is aware of the salary arrears affecting employees of the Zambia Postal Services Corporation (ZAMPOST). While it has been claimed that the arrears span six months, it has been established that employees currently face three months’ salary arrears backlog amounting to K14.4 million. The unpaid salaries are for the months of May, June, and October 2024. Notwithstanding these challenges, ZAMPOST has been making consistent monthly salary payments for other periods within the current year. The House may wish to note that the arrears primarily result from cashflow constraints that have hampered the corporation’s ability to meet its financial obligations. The challenges were exacerbated by external factors, including reduced operations due to the energy crisis, which caused considerable inactivity in numerous post offices, directly affecting revenue streams. Additionally, ZAMPOST faces delays in receiving payments owed by various entities, including both domestic and international partners.

Madam Speaker, ZAMPOST has, in a phased approach, been paying the salary arrears. However, to systematically address the challenges, management has been working towards stabilising the corporation’s financial position. To this effect, a number of measures aimed at improving liquidity, enhancing operational efficiency, and securing the necessary financial inflows are being implemented through a comprehensive turnaround strategy. The strategy will focus on improving ZAMPOST’s financial health, clearing arrears, and enhancing the corporation’s long-term sustainability. The specific measures include debt recovery, operational adjustments and cost control, and enhanced revenue generation through strategic business partnerships.

Madam Speaker, further to the above, the Government has budgeted for K100 million under Head 21 in the National Budget to go towards the payment of benefits for retirees. This measure is aimed at addressing the debt distress that the corporation is currently facing.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, the misery that the United Party for National Development (UPND) administration has caused to our people is unbearable. That is why in 2026, it is going.

Interruptions

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, on a sad note, we have lost an employee of the Zambia Postal Services Corporation (ZAMPOST), who was the Branch Manager at Mkushi Branch, because he failed to pay his debt. This is because the Government has failed to settle the salary arrears it owes the employees. We passed the budget for the Ministry of Technology and Science, and I am sure that the ZAMPOST employees were catered for in that budget. Where has the ministry taken the money that was supposed to be paid to the ZAMPOST workers?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, some things are easier said than done, including the issue about 2026.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: Coming to ZAMPOST, indeed, it is regrettable that a life has been lost.

Madam Speaker, thehon. Member may be aware that we budgeted a K100 million in 2023 for ZAMPOST specifically to pay retirees. Owing to the crisis of energy and other factors, revenue collection reduced drastically and the gross domestic product (GDP) also reduced. So, a number of budget lines were truncated, including that of ZAMPOST. We have provided a K100 million in the 2025 Budget. As you are aware, the GDP for 2025 is expected to be in the range of 6 per cent.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Uncle Felix, you know how important –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Nkana!

The issue of uncles is outside the House.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: In the House, we address people as hon. Members or hon. Ministers. He is the hon. Minister of Technology and Science. Please, there are no uncles in the House.

Mr B. Mpundu: I am well-guided, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member is fully aware of how important the Zambia Postal Services Corporation (ZAMPOST) has been to the country. It is a significant establishment in the Republic of Zambia. Prices of commodities are rising every day, so it is very difficult for people to get by when they do not get paid for three or four months. Has the ministry conducted a comprehensive assessment of ZAMPOST’s viability? There are two things that can be done: let it go and pay the workersor keep it so that the Government can continue paying the workers. What is the way forward from those two assessments?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, I have indicated that a new turnaround strategy has been formulated, headed by the new managing director. The strategy has a number of elements, including the expansion of the revenue base, the assets that were transferred to ZAMPOST from the Ministry of Transport and Logistics such as boats, the reduction of expenditure to achieve sustainability, the provision of K100 million in the 2025 Budget, and the migration from a purely manual corporation to a digital post. Those measures are supposed to revive ZAMPOST.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, the Zambia Postal Services Corporation (ZAMPOST) has been thriving on two main streams of revenue, that is, the courier service and box rentals. The courier service is facing competition and the box rentals are not paid most of the time. Some people and the Government owe the corporation money for box rentals. What is the ministry doing to liquidate the money owed to ZAMPOST for box rentals, so that the company can recapitalise to meet its operational costs, such as wages and salaries owed to its workers?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, it is correct that the courier service is facing competition from the private sector, but part of the turnaround strategy is for ZAMPOST to revive the ZAMPOST Bus Service. I think that brand is purely associated with ZAMPOST, and I see it bringing in some revenue. In the case of box rentals, yes,the company is owed a significant amount. I keep pushing colleagues at the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to finance the arrears and the current payments.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North):Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister presented the Supplementary Budget earlier, and it has a provision to pay those in foreign missions. Now, the Zambia Postal Services Corporation (ZAMPOST) workers have gone for quite some time without getting paid. The hon. Minister is on record; he promised that retirees were going to be paid before the end of the second quarter this year, but nothing has happened. Why does he not consider including an amount in the Supplementary Budget so that those workers can be paidbecause they have many financial challenges?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, I have already said that a provision of K100 million has been made in the 2025 Budget. Therefore, we do not need an amount in the Supplementary Budget.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much. Hon. Member for Nakonde, this was your question, have you exhausted your questions?

Mr Simumba indicated assent.

Madam Speaker: You are covered. Okay, in that case, we make progress.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Sorry? No, there is nothing like passing a question onto another person.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Under what Standing Order?

Can we make progress? I think that if you were listening, the hon. Minister covered many areas.

WORKERS COMPENSATION FUND CONTROL BOARD PAYMENTS TO WORKERS

144. Mr Allen Banda (Chimwemwe) asked the Minister of Labour and Social Security:

how many workers countrywide received compensation from the Workers Compensation Fund Control Board from 2020 to 2023year by year;

how much money was paid to the affected workers each year;

whether all the affected workers received compensation in each year; and

if not all the affected workers received compensation, why.

The Minister of Labour and Social Security (Ms Tambatamba): Madam Speaker, –

Mr Kapyanga: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, my point of order is pursuant to Standing Order No. 71. When the hon. Minister of Technology and Science answered the question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Nakonde regarding the Zambia Postal Services Corporation (ZAMPOST), he indicated that ZAMPOST will resuscitate the courier service using ZAMPOST Bus Service. In the 21^stCentury, couriering things is not dependent on buses. Companies in Lusaka are making money everyday delivering things using motorbikes. The ZAMPOST can also do that in Lusaka, Livingstone, Kitwe, Ndola, Kabwe and everywhere –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

What is your point of order? Please, we want to make progress.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, was the hon. Minister in order to have focussed only on a model that has not worked in the past, instead of talking about innovative things that will resuscitate ZAMPOST fully?

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Mpika, you are trying to ask your question through a point of order. I suggest that you engage the hon. Minister of Technology and Science on how the Zambia Postal Services Corporation (ZAMPOST) can be revamped through the use of motorbikes to run a courier service.

We make progress. The hon. Minister may continue.

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, the number of workers who received compensation during the period 2020 to 2023 is as follows:

Year Number of claims received Number of workers in receipt of

compensation

2020 930 10,114

2021 1,556 11,070

2022 1,483 11,039

2023 1,277 12,335

Madam Speaker, the Worker’s Compensation Fund Control Board paid a total of K436,788,177.22 as compensation in respect of occupational accidents and diseases suffered by workers during the period 2020 to 2023.

Madam Speaker, these payments include monthly pension payments, medical refunds and lump sum payments, including all rehabilitation expenses. The payments for each year are as follows:

Year Amount paid

2020 K39,626,970.95

2021 K91,429,896.99

2022 K189,400,933.69

2023 K116,330,375.59

Madam Speaker, not all workers received compensation during the period under review as some of them were undergoing treatment or healing processes before determination of the degree of disablement suffered.

Madam Speaker, as stated in part (c) of the question above, the workers who did not receive compensation are at various levels of treatments or healing before the degree of disability and ultimately the level of compensation can be determined.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Allen Banda: MadamSpeaker, it is very important for every worker to have access to compensation in the case of accidents or disease suffered during employment. I know that companies make contributions for workers compensation in January. In the past, contributions used to be made in April and March. The change to January has affected many contractors and suppliers on the Copperbelt because January is quite tricky. December is full of festivities so people spend a lot of money. Small-scale contractors are failing to pay the contributions to the Workers Compensation Fund Control Board in January and, as a result, they are charged penalties. Does the ministry have plans to assess the negative impact of the new date on contractors? Could the ministry go back to make March the month for payments or assessments for workers compensation?

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, I do not see the relevance of that question about contractors because the question has to do with beneficiaries. However, my advice to the hon. Member is that the matter can be discussed with the Workers Compensation Fund Control Board if contractors wish to resolve it to enhance their business.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr E. Banda (Muchinga): Madam Speaker, what is the minimum amount paid to beneficiaries by the Workers Compensation Fund Control Board?

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. E. Banda for that very important question. In recent times, I have seen a very substantial increase in the membership of theWorkers Compensation Fund Control Board as a result of the actuarial evaluation that was undertaken in the previous year. The hon. Member must be comforted that the minimum is over K1,000. With the arrears arising from the evaluation that was undertaken, some members have been paid quite a good amount of arrears, which enables them to start small-scale and medium scale businesses. The amount paid to beneficiaries in 2024 was higher than in 2023. The highest amount a person got in pension payments was K3,049 while the lowest was K300. Some members were paid K10,000 and K20,000 because of the arrears that were paid, and this will enable them to fund their businesses or improve liquidity in their businesses.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Allen Banda: Madam Speaker, I hope that this time the hon. Minister will answer my question. The money paid to workers comes from the contributions that companies make. What does the Workers Compensation Fund Control Board do with the money that remains after compensating workers? Does it invest the money in financial instruments, or does it put the money in the bank? Does it make any profit out of the money?

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chimwemwe for the follow-up question. That is a pension-related question. Pension funds are investable. I would like to comfort the hon. Member that the board approves the usage of the resources in suitable or profitable investments to further enhance the quantum or the value that will go back to our members. We cannot have a situation where money is kept or frozen when it can be invested in ventures that can increase its value and, in turn, make a better return for members. The hon. Member may be aware that the funds are invested in what are traditionally pension funds that support infrastructure like roads. We know that the Chililabombwe/Kasumbalesa Road is one of the projects that have been undertaken through a public private partnership (PPP) arrangement. Pension funds have also been used to finance the Lusaka/Ndola dual carriageway.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr E. Banda interjected.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Muchinga,you have already asked a question. You can ask only one question.Do you want to ask another question?

Mr E. Banda indicated assent.

Madam Speaker:No, pass it on to somebody else if you really want to. Actually, I thought hon. Members would have a lot of interest in this issue. I am surprised. I wish I could ask a question. It looks like there are no more questions, so let us move to the next questions.

DAMS IN MBABALA PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, Question No. 145.

Laughter

Mr Munsanje: Sorry, it is Question No. 237.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, are you here, or are you still in Mbabala?

Laughter

Madam Speaker:I will help you. It is Question No. 145.

Mr Munsanje: It is Question No. 145.

Madam Speaker: Yes, it is Question No. 145.

145. Mr Munsanje (Mbabala)asked theMinister of Water Development and Sanitation:

(a) how many dams there were in Mbabala Parliamentary Constituencyas of April 2024;

(b) of the number at (a), how many dams were breached;

(c) when rehabilitation of the breached dams would commence;

(d) how many additional dams are earmarked for construction in the constituency so as to mitigate the impact of droughts on livestock;

(e) whether the Government has any plans to construct Nalituba Dam that was approved in the 1990s; and

(f) if so, when the plans will be implemented.

The Minister of Water Development and Sanitation (Eng. Nzovu): Madam Speaker, before I answer the questions, allow me to quickly explain one or two things because this is a very important question, as the answer will show.

Madam Speaker, there are thirty dams in Mbabala Constituency and seven dams were breached. You will recall that I have come on the Floor of this House to update the House on what we are calling the National Rainwater Harvesting Strategy and Implementation Plan. This Government has clearly made the pronouncement that we need to harvest water to ensure food, energy and water security. That is very important. One of the ways we are going to do that is by maintaining the existing dams and building new dams.

Madam Speaker, there has been a worrying trend of breaching many old dams. Basically, a dam breach is defined as an opening in a dam body that causes the dam to fail. As a result, there is unprecedented flooding, and we are seeing the intensity and frequency of flooding increasing. Most of the dams are earth dams, and once earth dams are overtopped, they fail. The Government has responded by coming up with the National Rainwater Harvesting Strategy and Implementation Plan to protect old dams and to make sure that the new ones being constructed are climate-smart regarding the design of the route of the floods and the usage of the water in the dams is managed properly.

Madam Speaker, let me now come to the question by Hon. Munsanje, the Member of Parliament for Mbabala. Mbabala Constituency has a total of thirty dams as of April 2024. Out of the thirty dams, seven were breached as of April 2024, and these are: Kabanga, Namuhila, Mbole, Silukwiya, Kapopo, Siachiwena, Kabeta and Mauka.

Madam Speaker, the ministry has budgeted to rehabilitate a total of fourteen dams in various provinces in the 2025 National Budget, and Kabanga Dam in Mbabala Constituency has been included. Currently, the procurement of a consultant to undertake feasibility studies for the rehabilitation of these dams is ongoing. The remaining six dams will be considered for rehabilitation in subsequent Budgets. The Government has not budgeted to construct any additional dams in Mbabala Constituency in the 2025 Budget.

Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to construct Natibula Dam and is now in the process of procuring a consultant to undertake feasibility studies to ascertain its viability. The construction of Nalituba Dam is subject to the outcome of the feasibility study and the availability of funds.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that response to the good people of Mbabala. On this International Day of Persons with Disabilities, I want to say that as Parliament, we recognise this very important day for persons with disabilities and their fight for inclusion. I suppose the hon. Minister had an activity, which I hope hon. Members supported. I apologise as I could not be at his office.

Madam Speaker, let me get back to the question. Access to water is very important for persons with disabilities. We have worked on Kabanga Dam using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to ensure that the dam does not destroy crops like it did in the previous seasons.I would like to find out if the ministry will rehabilitate the dam and sink it further down. What action will be taken? Since the hon. Minister is a water engineer, I take it that he has the competence to answer my question. Mauka Dam has burst. I want to find out if there is any urgent action that the ministry will take to restore Mauka Dam. That is an emergency.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that very important question. There are many dams across the length and breadth of the country and they have several challenges. So, we have embarked on preventive maintenance of these dams. We have worked on more than 500 dams out of the 770 dams under the Drought Response Plan. The maintenance works range from simple vegetation control to repairs, particularly on structures like spillways. They also involve patching several dams because most of them are earth dams. As rain falls on these dams, there is erosion and exposure of the concrete structures particularly on the spillways. Various maintenance works are being done. We are also ensuring that water routing structures, particularly spillways, are enhanced in light of climate change. What we have observed not only from rainfall itself but also from river flows is that, the intensity of floods has increased as a result of climate change; we receive a lot of localised rainfall, resulting in a lot of runoff and flooding. This leads to overtopping of the earth dams and failure. Different types of works are being done on dams across the length and breadth of the country. So, the dam in Mbabala will be looked at and the maintenance works engineered appropriately.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, I like the way the hon. Minister, Eng. Nzovu, responds to questions.

Madam Speaker, Mbabala Constituency is known for farming, particularly animal husbandry. So, water is very important to the constituency. In his response, the hon. Minister mentioned that fourteen dams will be rehabilitated or constructed. Could the hon. Minister state the cost of rehabilitating and constructing those dams that he mentioned?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for those kind words.

Madam Speaker, Mbabala Constituency is in the Southern Province. At one time, the province was the bread basket of this country. When you look at the amount of rain we receive in that area now, you will see that it has reduced. We believe that water harvesting is the answer to bring the province back to its glory days of high maize production. A lot of maize can still be produced in Mbabala. There is also a huge number of livestock in that area. We will do everything possible to ensure that Mbabala Constituency produces maize and animals as before.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Madam Speaker, we, as the Southern Province, are still the maize belt. It is only that drought has affected us.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that there are seven dams that require rehabilitation in Mbabala. Looking at the fact that construction of a new dam and rehabilitation of an old one costs almost the same amount, would the hon. Minister consider engaging the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development to increase the amount allocated to the disaster management component under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) by five per cent, so that Mbabala can manage to rehabilitate at least one dam per year?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I thank my hon. Colleague from Dundumwezi for that very important question. Yes, indeed, we will rehabilitate or construct dams as the case may be. About seven dams were breached because of overtopping and excessive flooding. It may not be correct that the cost of rehabilitating an old dam is the same as construction of a new one. Basically, what we are calling ‘rehabilitation’ are small maintenance works that are quite low in value. The true cost of constructing the dams will be ascertained once the feasibility studies are completed.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament may wish to know that the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation is currently revising the water policy to ensure that we design the water harvesting structures across the length and breadth of the country to respond to climate change. Drought must find us prepared. We should never be food and energy insecure again. We are making every effort to ensure that when another drought hits us, we will be ready and our people will have enough food.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Madam Speaker, seven dams have been breached in Mbabala Constituency. Preliminary investigations reveal that flooding was the cause of the breach. The hon. Minister mentioned that Mbabala is going to get one dam from the fourteen dams that will be constructed in 2025. Was the breach of the dams as a result of a deficiency in the design of the flooding frequency and the hydraulic routing of the structures? Was there a deficiency in the flooding frequency in the construction of the dams, that flooding led to overtopping of those seven dams?

Madam Speaker, I am sorry about my voice.

Madam Speaker: That is engineer to engineer.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Kaumbwe for that very technical question. If we start talking about flood frequencies here, we may confuse our people. In simple terms, flood frequency refers to the period it takes for designed floods to come back. For example, if it is 400m³/s, you will find that for dams designed for that purpose, that amount of flooding may come after twenty years or fifty years. I think that is a matter we can discuss closely together.

Madam Speaker, let me also inform my fellow hon. Members of Parliament that the subject we are discussing is very important. We,hon. Members from rural areas, know that for us to guarantee food security, we really need to ensure that we are water secure. One of the cheapest ways to ensure that we are water secure is by constructing earth dams or weirs. It is only when we plantmaize twice a year that we will be food secure. Hon. Mtolo Phiri has been preaching on the Floor of the House that we need to be food secure or have food surplus domestically.I am emphasisinghow important this subject isbecause in just one constituency, we have seven dam failures. Across the length and breadth of the country, we have many dam failures. There are several causes of dam failures.As I have already said,there are unprecedented floods because of climate change, and the intensity and frequency of floods is increasing. Dams were designed and built a long time ago before we had the huge floods we have now. We are looking at re-designing spillway structures so that once a flood comes, it will be re-routed quickly without overtopping the dams. Other causes of breaches include piping and seepage because of low compaction and equipment failure, where valves fail to open to reduce flood levels and allowfresh water to come into the dam.

Madam Speaker, what is the response of the Government regarding this matter? Again, I am privileged to inform this august House that just today, we launched what we are calling the National Rainwater Harvesting Strategy and Implementation Plan. In this booklet, first and foremost, we are encouraging every Zambian to harvest water fromroof tops, weirs, and from every structure. We are encouraging Zambians to be water-conscious, to preserve water, and to use it sustainably. This Government has made a pronouncement on water harvesting so we may see many dams constructed. How do we protect those dams from breaches? This booklet will tell youhow to operate a dam and conserve water. The booklet will tell you the type of dam you can construct in several places. So, I invite hon. Members of Parliament here to use some of the Constituency Development Plan (CDF)to construct dams. Nangoma Constituency has led the way. We have an earth dam there. Our animals will be drinking water from there and maize will be planted twice a year.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Lubozha: Madam Speaker, the construction of Nalituba Dam was approved in 1990. However, thirty-six years down theline, the people of Mbabala still say that they need the dam to be constructed because of its strategic location and the services that the people will get from it. Why has it taken so long for the ministry to construct this strategic dam for the people of Mbabala?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, as I said, we are engaging a consultant to finalise the feasibility studies,the designs,the drawings, the Bills of Quantities (BoQs) and the costs so that we can construct Nalituba Dam. That means no specifications were done before. We are doing this so that we budget appropriately for the dam. Let me assure the people of Mbabala that this Government will leave no one behind.We are looking at developing the whole Zambia equitably.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Madam Speaker, livestock grazing around dams damages the spillways of the dams, including those that the hon. Minister mentioned in Mbabala Constituency. Is the ministry considering fencing the dams to stop livestock from damaging the spillways of the dams, so that the ministry does not have to repair the dams from time to time?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I agree with the hon. Member of Parliament for Masaiti 100 per cent. That advice is taken. Actually, the ministry is fencing the structures to stop not only animals but also people from getting hurt. That advice from the hon. Member for Masaiti is spot on, and we will follow it.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

FARMING INPUTS FORFARMERS IN DAMBOS

146. Mr Mumba (Kantanshi) (on behalf of Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya)) asked the Minister of Agriculture:

whether the Government has any plans to provide farming inputs for winter farming to farmers in dambo areas in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency;

if so, when the plans will be implemented;

how many dambo areas have been identified for winter farming in the constituency;

how many farmers will participate in the programme;

how many camp officers will be deployed to monitor and supervise the programme; and

what logistical support will be provided to the officers.

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Mtolo): Madam Speaker, the Government, working with the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services, has been implementing the Wetlands Cropping component of the Food Security Pack (FSP) programme to provide agricultural inputs for winter farming, which include fertiliser, maize, vegetable seeds, and accompanying services to enable households cultivate 1 lima in wetlands countrywide, including in dambo areas in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency.

Madam Speaker, the Government is already implementing the Wetlands Cropping component winter farming in the dry season, that is, May to November.

Madam Speaker, a total of sixteen dambo areas were identified for winter farming in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency and a total number of 700 households benefited from the traditional Wetlands Cropping sub-programme while 2,400 households benefited under the Emergency Wetlands Cropping sub-programme, bringing the total number of beneficiary households to 3,100 in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency.

Madam Speaker, a total of sixteen extension officers translating to one extension officer for each camp will provide support to the winter farming programme. The camp extension officers are equipped with agricultural toolkits to enable them give timely and relevant guidance to the farmers.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chewe (Lubansenshi): Madam Speaker, the issue in Kanchibiya is similar to the one in Lubansenshi. Which criteria does the ministry use to identify beneficiaries? Is there monitoring and evaluation to ascertain that the beneficiaries are the right ones?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I indicated that the Government is working with the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services to implement the programme. I gave an answer following the education I was given last time, which is that hon. Ministers should have a sense of what their friends in other ministries are doing. That question should be directed to the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, is winter farming really benefiting our people, or is the Government making a loss from the programme?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, the question on the Floor is about wetland farming, not winter farming. Wetland farming is meant to support household food security; I believe that it is supporting household food security. I can discuss the performance of winter farming with the hon. Member, but I will give him a bonus answer. Last year, we harvested more than 84,000 metric tonnes of maize from the winter crop, which is quite reasonable.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker:The last question will be from the hon. Member for Mbabala.

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, are the people in Kanchibiya and Mbabala who have benefited from the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) programme still eligible to get farming inputs for winter farming?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, again, I would like to indicate that the question is talking about wetland farming, not winter farming. So, maybe, I can have a chat with the hon. Member about that.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

POOR PERFORMANCE OF PUPILS IN EXAMINATION CLASSES IN WESTERN PROVINCE

147. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Education:

what factors contributed to the poor performance of Grade 9 and 12 pupils in the 2023 examinations in the Western Province; and

what measures are being taken to improve the performance of pupils in the province.

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima):Madam Speaker, the poor performance of Grade 9 and Grade 12 pupils in the 2023 examinations in the Western Province can be attributed to several inter-related factors primarily exacerbated by the Coronavirus Disease-2019 (COVID-19) pandemic.Firstly, prolonged school closures in 2020 and 2021 significantly disrupted the academic calendar, reducing instructional time and leaving learners with inadequate mastery of key concepts. To recover lost time, schools adopted a condensed curriculum, which inadvertently widened learning gaps. The gaps were particularly severe in rural areas such as the Western Province, where access to remote learning resources was extremely limited.Secondly, the transition to remote learning highlighted systemic inequalities. While some schools implemented online and radio-based programmes, other pupils in underserved areas lacked the infrastructure and the resources to participate effectively. The lack of adequate support systems further compounded these challenges, leaving many learners disengaged when schools re-opened.Thirdly, weaknesses in educational leadership and resource management were exposed. School leaders struggled to maintain effective supervision and instructional quality due to limited infrastructure and shortages of specialist teachers. These interconnected factors underscore the long-term effects of the pandemic on Zambia’s education system, emphasising the need for targeted interventions to address learning gaps, strengthen school leadership, and improve resource allocation.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Let us listen to the answers. There is a lot of talking on my left. I am not only referring to the Opposition but the Frontbench. There is a lot of talking. You are not supporting the hon. Minister. Please, let us listen to the answer.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Education has implemented several strategies to improve pupil performance in the Western Province. These include but are not limited to the following:

Addressing Learning Gaps: The ministry has enhanced remedial programmes such as the Let us Read and CatchUpinitiatives to support struggling learners. These programmes focus on monitoring pupil progress, attendance, and performance to address specific learning deficiencies effectively;

Expanding Infrastructure and Learning Resources: To create conducive learning environments, over 500 additional classrooms have been constructed within existing schools and twenty-two new secondary schools are under construction across the province. Additionally, seventeen early childhood education hub centres and seventeen satellite centres are planned to strengthen foundational learning;

Strengthening Teacher Capacity: The ministry continues to prioritise in-service training for teachers, equipping them with advanced instructional techniques and classroom management strategies. Recruitment and deployment efforts focus on rural areas and critical subject strategies. Further, strengthened monitoring systems ensure accountability by addressing teacher absenteeism and indiscipline;

Improving Educational Leadership and Supervision Capacity: Capacitybuilding programmes for school leaders are being implemented to ensure supervision, resource management, and data-driven decision-making. Regional and district education officers have been equipped with additional resources and personnel to provide consistent support and monitoring; and

Promoting Community Engagement: The ministry is fostering stronger community involvement through the establishment of collaborative action groups.These groups work with local leaders, parents, and organisations to enhance accountability and support school programmes. Parental education programmes also emphasise the importance of active participation of parents in their children's education.

Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Education remains resolute in its commitment to addressing the root causes of poor performance while laying a robust foundation for an equitable, resilient and high-performing education system in Zambia.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, I need help from the hon. Minister. Particular subjects have been affected the most. Is the hon. Minister able to state which subjects were heavily affected regarding the poor performance of pupils?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, off the cuff, I may not be able to give a particular subject. Mostly, children do not perform well in science subjects. We need to do an analysis in order to pinpoint the subjects in which performance was poor. In fact, an analysis was already done when we presented the results. I cannot give the answer off the cuff, but mostly, the subjects that were affected are sciences.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Sefulo (Mwandi): Madam Speaker, in his answer, the hon. Minister indicated that one of the reasons the Western Province was affected in terms of performance of the Grade 9 and Grade 12 pupils in the examinations was the Coronavirus Disease-2019 (COVID-19) pandemic. I know for sure that the children in urban areas like Lusaka and the Copperbelt had electronic-learning (e-learning) during the COVID-19 period as opposed to the children in the Western Province. However, all the children in the country wrote the same examinations. This disadvantaged the children who did not have access to e-learning. Having learned that lesson, what measures has the ministry taken with regard to Internet, to provide an advantage for the children in the Western Province so that they can have access to e-learning should they face such a situation in future?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Technology and Science is rolling out equipment for our children to be able to learn if we face COVID-19 again. We were caught off guard, but I think that we are now prepared.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lubozha: Madam Speaker, the Zambia National Education Coalition (ZANEC) came up with some factors that explain why the results in the Western Province were very poor. Some of the factors it brought up include dampened morale amongst teachers because some of the teachers have upgraded their qualifications but the ministry has not upgraded their positions or salaries, some are taking double classes but are not being paid for the extra classes or the payment is delayed. Examination malpractice was also cited as one of the reasons for the poor results in the Western Province. What is the ministry doing about some of these revelations that are said to have contributed to the poor results in the Western Province?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I am not quite sure whether I got the last part of the question.

Madam Speaker: May the hon. Member repeat the question.

Mr Lubozha: Madam Speaker, ZANEC came up with the factors that contributed to the poor results in the Western Province. One of the factors is the dampened morale of the teachers who are taking double classes but are not getting paid for the extra classes, or the payment is delayed. Further, some teachers upgraded their qualifications but the ministry has not upgraded their positions or salaries. The other factor is examination malpractice, particularly in examination centres in private schools. How is the ministry addressing these factors that contributed to the poor results in the province?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, let me start with the last one. If I understood the hon. Member, he said that examination malpractice contributed to the poor results in the Western Province. I am not quite sure whether that can be a factor. People who engage in examination malpractice pass. So, maybe that organisation meant something else, not that the poor results in the Western Province were because of examination malpractice. I may have to read about that issue to understand it properly. In terms of morale, I think that is a legacy problem. People who upgraded their qualifications were not upgraded for the past ten years, and we require a lot of money to do it. Every year, we are trying to upgrade people using the first in first out formula. That is what we are trying to do now.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Speaker, the results in the Western Province are similar to the ones in the Eastern Province. One of the reasons that have been cited for poor results in our province is that children are walking long distances to secondary schools. The ministry has abolished Grade 8 and Grade 9 basic schools in most of our wards, especially in Lundazi, Ntintimila and Chijemu, where children could easily access school nearby. How does the hon. Minister expect to tackle the challenge of poor results in the Western Province while closing some basic schools and referring pupils to schools that are far away in the Eastern Province?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, contrary to what the hon. Member has said, the Eastern Province is doing far much better than many of the other provinces. In 2023, it was number three on the hierarchy of performance. In 2022, it was number one. In 2023, it was number three. In 2022, it was number one. In 2021, it was number ten and 2020 it was number nine. So, the province has been improving. More pupils pass in the Eastern Province than in other provinces. So, maybe, we should start looking for the reason the pupils are passing.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Statistics.

Ms Nyirenda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Lundazi, you can engage the hon. Minister. Everybody wants to know what has changed or what has happened. How come the students from the Eastern Province are passing?

Ms Nyirenda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Are you asking for a chance to explain yourself? You cannot raise a point of order.

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, can I explain myself?

Madam Speaker: You can explain yourself.

Ms Nyirenda: The reason that the province had good results in the past is that pupils were learning from nearby schools. Now, the ministry has closed the basic schools. So, we will not get good results because now pupils are moving long distances to school. Some of them are already failing before they even write examinations. What is the ministry going to do about that? The downturn has started. Check the results for last year.

Madam Speaker: The only challenge I see is that the question we are dealing with right now is about the Western Province. That is the problem of bringing in other areas when a question is specific to an area. It looks like the hon. Minister of Education wants to say something.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I want to correct the impression that the pupils are not doing well now. That is not correct. I just said that in 2020, the Eastern Province was number nine. In 2021, the Eastern Province was number ten. In 2022, the Eastern Province was number one. In 2023, the Eastern Province was number three. So, the pupils are doing fine. If the distances –

Ms Nyirenda interjected.

Mr Syakalima: I am answering you, then you are –

Madam Speaker: Please, listen to the answers and then raise issues.

Let us make progress. The hon. Member for Kalabo Central may ask his question.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, in his response, the hon. Minister said that the Western Province did not do very well. In his response, one of the measures to address the issue is to enhance monitoring of teachers, meaning enhancing the effectiveness of the standards section or what we used to call inspectors. How does the hon. Minister think monitoring can be enhanced, when the entire ministry in Kalabo depends on one limping Land Cruiser? The frequency of monitoring or the movement of the standards officers to schools needs to be enhanced. Does the hon. Minister receive reports indicating that officers travel to schools? If the officers present that data, is the hon. Minister sure that the data is from the schools, not prepared from the office?

Mr B. Mpundu: Lila!

Mr Miyutu: How does the hon. Minister intend to enhance monitoring with only one limping vehicle?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, we have been giving districts vehicles for monitoring the running of the school system, except that we cannot monitor 116 districts within a short period. There are so many things to fix. However, I agree with the hon. Member that standards must be monitored. If there is only one limping vehicle, we will see what we have in our kit. Otherwise, some districts already have vehicles. I was not aware that Kalabo District has only one vehicle.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

______

BILLS

SECOND READING

THE GREEN ECONOMY AND CLIMATE CHANGE BILL, 2024

The Minister of Green Economy and Environment (Mr Mposha): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Madam Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to issue a policy statement on the draft Green Economy and Climate Change Bill No. 18 of 2024. A strong regulatory framework to direct Zambia’s climate response and governance is introduced by the proposed Green Economy and Climate Change Bill. It lays out rules for how Government organisations, businesses, civil society, and religious institutions can work together to combat climate change. By creating a clear legal environment, the Bill enhances Zambia’s ability to implement climate action in the following ways.

Madam Speaker, as stated in the Bill’s object under (a) and in Part III, clauses 10 to 12, the law will address disaster risk reduction and climate change adaptation and Zambia’s natural resources, which are essential for food security and tourism, and the ecosystem’s health will be protected in the long run by the creation of the National Adaptation and Mitigation Plans that will provide guidance for mitigation strategies like reforestation, forest conservation and sustainable agricultural practices.

Madam Speaker, climate change mitigation, low emission development, green economy and related actions, and reducing greenhouse gas emissions in the atmosphere are some of the goals of the Bill. As stated in object (b) and supported by Part IV, clauses 14 to 18, lowering emissions will promote the growth of green industries like sustainable agriculture, ecotourism and renewable energy while also improving the quality of air and water. This will immediately enhance public health and people’s livelihoods, and the general well-being will gradually improve as a result.

Madam Speaker, carbon stock management is a subject that most of your hon. Members are curious about or want to hear. According to the Bill’s object (c), the carbon market is one of the investments that are anticipated to gain from this legislation. Zambia will be a trustworthy, dependable and predictable participant in the carbon market. Thanks to the measures under the carbon market, which will draw investments through a transparent benefit-enhanced system, the regulated carbon market will also guarantee that the interests of all participants, particularly local rural communities, are not harmed and that they receive their fair share of the benefits.

Madam Speaker, one of the objects of the Bill is environmental and social safeguards. Climate change disproportionately affects women, particularly those who live in rural regions and depend on natural resources for their livelihoods. Programmes that empower women and young people via education, training and employment in climate-related professions are given priority in the Bill. In Zambia’s green economy, this inclusive strategy fosters social fairness and gender equality.

Madam Speaker, the Bill proposes to establish a Green Economy and Climate Change Fund that will contribute to the implementation of adaptation and mitigation programmes and projects in the country as outlined in object (e). It should be mentioned that implementing actions related to climate change and a green economy requires enormous amounts of resources. For instance, US$17.2 billion is needed to completely implement Zambia’s nationally determined contribution, US$34 billion is required for the National Adaption Plan and US$10.2 billion is needed for the National Green Growth Strategy 2024 - 2030. Since the Treasury cannot raise all these funds on its own, the Bill will help to raise money for these vital climate change and green economy initiatives through the fund.

Madam Speaker, by creating chances for financial aid, technology transfer, capacity building, and knowledge sharing with other nations and organisations, the Green Economy and Climate Change Bill puts Zambia in line with international efforts to combat climate change through the domestication of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) and the Paris Agreement.

Madam Speaker, I, therefore, recommend that this august House considers the Bill favourably as it is progressive and timely to enable us address the challenge of climate change and put us on a path of green growth.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mabonga (Mfuwe): Madam Speaker, in accordance with its terms of reference as set out under Standing Order No. 206(a) and 207(j) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders,2024, the Committee considered the Green Economy and Climate Change Bill No. 18 of 2024. To appreciate the ramifications of the Bill, the Committee interacted with stakeholders, who tendered both written and oral submissions before it.

Madam Speaker, as the House may be aware, the regulatory framework for a green economy and climate change has proved inadequate in responding to climate change issues in the country. As such, it has been difficult to provide for mechanisms through which carbon trading could be actualised and regulated in the country. It is from this premise that the Green Economy and Climate Change Bill No. 18 of 2024 is being enacted into law.

Madam Speaker, given this background, it is envisaged that once enacted into law, the Green Economy and Climate Change Bill will facilitate and support the effective implementation of green economy and climate change programmes in all sectors.

Madam Speaker, I wish to put on record that the Committee is in total support of the Bill. However, having interacted with various stakeholders, it has made some observations and recommendations on the Bill, some of which I now highlight.

Madam Speaker, the Committee noted that the Bill has not provided specific revenue sharing mechanisms among stakeholders, which include the Government, communities, and carbon project developers. Furthermore, the Bill has not defined the rights of local communities in relation to carbon ownership and carbon credit issuance and trading. If these issues are not addressed, there will be an inequitable distribution of carbon trading benefits, where local communities will be exploited by those in the carbon trading business. The Committee strongly recommends that the Bill addresses the issue of benefit sharing in a transparent and equitable manner to prevent exploitation of communities by project proponents. The Committee further urges the Executive to draw lessons from Kenya and Tanzania, where applicable laws provide clear and fair benefit sharing mechanisms.

Madam Speaker, the Committee observed that Part IV of the Bill has provisions relating to establishing and maintaining a greenhouse inventory management system. These provisions appear to be similar to the provision in Section 9(2)(q) of the Environmental Management Act No. 12 of 2011. The Act provides for undertaking inventory of greenhouse gas emissions by the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA). The Committee is of the view that there may be duplication or an overlap in the functions, which may cause a conflict between the Department of Green Economy and Climate Change and ZEMA. In this regard, the Committee recommends that the Government considers harmonising the Bill with the Environmental Management Act No. 12 of 2011 to avoid conflicts.

Madam Speaker, Clause 8(1) of the Bill defines the composition of the Green Economy and Climate Change Council, which comprises representatives from various ministries. The Committee is, however, greatly concerned that the Ministry of Technology and Science and the Ministry of Tourism are not part of the Green Economy and Climate Change Council. In light of this, the Committee urges the Government to ensure that the Ministry of Technology and Science and the Ministry of Tourism are included on the Green Economy and Climate Change Council.

Madam Speaker, Clause 12 provides that an appropriate authority shall, in developing or reviewing and implementing a policy, programme, project and plan relating to mitigation and low emission development, take into account measures to address greenhouse gas emissions and mainstream low carbon strategies. The Committee is of the view that mitigation strategies and low emission plans should at least support a transition to sustainable practices in various economic sectors in the country. The Committee, therefore, strongly recommends that the Government leaves room for acceptable levels of emission to attain the desired national development goals in all the sectors of the economy. This should be considered, especially that Zambia’s emissions have remained quite low compared to many countries in the world. It is, therefore, the view of the Committee that the country develops its industry through the mining, manufacturing, and energy sectors.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, allow me to render my sincere gratitude to you, the Clerk of the National Assembly and his staff for the guidance and support rendered to the Committee throughout its deliberations. I also wish to place on record the Committee’s appreciation to all stakeholders who tendered both oral and written submissions before it.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to add my voice to the debate on this important subject. I want to state that these are the things that the United Party for National Development (UPND) should have brought from the outset. Then, we would not have been fighting the way we fight.

Hon. Member: Question!

Mr B. Mpundu: As opposed to what ba Jack Mwiimbu wants to bring in the cyber law, this Bill is progressive. It is not contentious that climate change is very real. I am glad that the UPND has woken up from slumber.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr B. Mpundu: In the past, it used to think that climate change was a hoax. Climate change is real, and it is confronting everyone.

Madam Speaker, I want to commend the hon. Minister for this law. Even though I support it, I have a few reservations. This law is proposing to strengthen the legal framework to help us respond to issues of climate change. One of the issues the Bill is trying to provide guidance on is carbon trading. I want to support the hon. Minister, but he must take note of something. From Section 19 to Section 31, the proposed law has provided for three approval processes for carbon trading business. Cardon trading has been a very thorny issue and, often times, people discuss it without understanding. When you peruse the Bill, you will find three approval processes, namely:

the approval to generate credit;

the approval to trade in credit; and

the approval to verify credit.

Madam Speaker, let me talk about the approval to generate credit. Of course, as stated in the Bill, the approval process to generate credit is very straightforward. It basically requires somebody who wants to get into this business to develop a concept note and a project proposal. My worry is that simplicity is very dangerous because it may create many oversights. For example, the Bill does not mandate an environmental impact assessment (EIA). You know that when dealing with projects that relate to community land and sustainable development, we need EIAs. The Bill is silent on that. So, the hon. Minister needs to pay attention to that.

Madam Speaker, another interesting source of confusion has been created in the Bill, which the hon. Minister may wish to pay attention to. The Bill does not extend to the carbon generated in the forest sector because the carbon generated in the forest sector is guided by the Forestry Act of 2015. So, the biggest challenge we would have is: Which law will be considered between the new law and the Forestry Act of 2015? It is important to harmonise laws because it will build investor confidence. Currently, the Government is signing Memoranda of Understanding (MoUs) and investors are interested in having a clear-cut law that will define how we deal with issues.

Madam Speaker, let me go to the approval to trade in carbon credit. Look at Section 22 to Section 28. The Bill dictates that carbon credit must be verified. The person applying for this must have a stock management permit. However, the Bill is not very clear as to the role of the Government in corresponding adjustments. Corresponding adjustments are key because they will enable us avoid double counting of carbon credit.I just want the hon. Minister to take note of that because it will confuse us.

Madam Speaker, the third approval process is verifying carbon credit. This process underscores the need to have qualified verifiers. You may wish to know that it is not easy to become a verifier. Therefore, new entrants will be prevented from the business. I would have loved to see a proposal for incentives in the Bill. For example, a number of training institutions should be offering courses for locals to obtain the qualification to be a verifier. A person needs to have a certificate of registration in order to be a verifier of carbon credit. It is important that we support this law, but the elephant in the room as we discuss the issue of climate change is: How do we adapt to the emerging market of carbon trading? The outcry in communities is on the people making decisions around the carbon trading business. Often times, I have heard the chairperson speak to the issue of sharing revenues. How are we sharing revenue from carbon trading? Before we go to the question of sharing the revenues generated from the carbon market, who is determining how much will be paid and who will be paid? You will find villagers complaining, but somebody else is smiling. Communities could be deprived of the forests where they get energy sources. For example, they would be stopped from accessing forests because of the carbon market. So, it is important that communities are aware that as they forgo the benefits of the forests, they can fall back on the revenue that will be generated from carbon trading. So, the law must be very clear. I do not have a problem supporting the law, but I wanted to highlight these things, and we should pay attention to them.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms S. Mwamba (Kasama Central): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to add my voice on the debate on the Green Economy and Climate Change Bill before the House on behalf of the people of Kasama.

Madam Speaker, I wish to highlight some critical aspects of the climate change fund as outlined in Section 34 to Section 37 of the Green Economy and Climate Change Bill as well as the gaps that I have noted in the Bill concerning benefit sharing mechanisms. The climate change fund, which will be administered by the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment, presents commendable fiscal oversight protocols, including structured accounting, reporting and auditing by the Auditor-General. These provisions will significantly enhance the transparency and accountability of climate finance management within our country. However, while the Bill earmarks funds for climate-related projects, capacity development, research and financial support through grants or loans, it lacks detailed alignment with Zambia’s Nationally Determined Contributions (NDCs) and mitigation goals. This lack of precision could dilute the impact of allocated resources.

Madam Speaker, to maximise effectiveness, the Bill should prioritise allocations for rural climate resilience projects that target smallholder farmers, who are vital to our climate adaptation strategies. Over and above what I have stated, incentivising microfinance institutions and similar entities to engage directly with communities would encourage grassroot participation in carbon markets. This would be done by providing essential start-up capital and risk management tools like asset insurance.

Madam Speaker, the Bill also falls short in detailing benefit sharing mechanisms, a crucial element for ensuring that the proceeds from carbon market projects are equitably distributed among all stakeholders, particularly those directly affected. This oversight or gap may hinder the fair distribution of benefits and could undermine community support for such important initiatives.

Madam Speaker, in supporting the Bill, I propose that amendments be made to better define the use of the climate change fund in line with our NDC goals and to explicitly incorporate robust benefit sharing mechanisms within the Bill. These enhancements will ensure that our climate finance not only meets national objectives but does so with equity and inclusivity, thereby garnering broader support and ensuring the sustainability of our climate actions.

Madam Speaker, with those few words, I support the Bill.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to add my voice on the debate on the Bill on behalf of the people of Chilubi.

Madam Speaker, the people of Chilubi realise that the Bill will affect different human activities. We are dealing with the effects of El Niño and many other issues. I would like to concentrate on Part V of the Bill, but I appreciate that Part VI and Part VII are also very good. I do not want to look at the Bill as a money spinner, especially for the carbon market.

Madam Speaker, Section 2 of the Bill has brought different players through the Acts of Parliament that the Bill has spoken to. The Bill has encompassed different ministries and departments of the Government. I would like to draw your attention to Section 6 and Section 8, which talk about the Green Economy and Climate Change Council. Look at the composition of the council and match it with what is in Section 2, which talks about the appropriate authorities. Section 6 talks about the council while Section 8 talks about the Green Economy and Climate Change Technical Committee. Few players have been taken on board. This Bill cuts across many areas of life. I would have loved more issues to have been included in the Bill, especially that it looks at different players. One of the key players at the district level is the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, but it has been left out in both the composition of the climate change council and the Green Economy and Climate Change Technical Committee in the Bill. I would also like to underscore that climate change mitigation measures include, among other things, efforts to seek, prevent or slow down the increase of atmospheric greenhouse gases. The Bill should have created room for things like early burning and late burning of grass, which contributes to the depletion of the ozone layer. I would like to emphasise Part IV of the Bill. I also agree with what is in Section 14 to 18 –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1641 hours until 1700 hours.

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I was saying that the parts in the Bill should have been separated into two Bills. Part I to IV of the Bill mainly tackle measures to mitigate the effects of climate change while Part V to VII mainly talk about the carbon market and many other factors. These parts should have been in separate Bills. The activities in Part V, VI and VII are focused on the commercial aspects of a green economy and climate change and have to be scrutinised in a different manner. The activities under the first four parts of the Bill deal with measures to mitigate climate change.

Madam Speaker, taking the responsibility of managing the greenhouse gas inventory management system to the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA) is misplaced. The Bill should have created a different taskforce to handle that area. It should have created a different vehicle to implement the good suggestions in the Bill instead of burdening ZEMA. We are talking about a broad aspect of climate change globally.

Madam Speaker, I support the issues in Part IX of the Bill, which comprises Section 34, 35 and 36. These sections deal with the creation of the Green Economy and Climate Change Fund. I will be doing a disservice to my people if I do not mention that most of the activities in Chilubi happen around the ecological system. So, I cannot come here to promote the carbon market. The Bill has taken care of my people’s interests from Part I to IV.

Madam Speaker, the ministry sponsoring this Bill should separate Part I to IV from the rest of the Bill and create another Bill. The current Bill should be about a green economy and climate change and another Bill should deal with the carbon market. There are conflicting interests in this Bill. We cannot have agencies implementing different things. Some agencies will implement prevention measures while the others will focus on commercial interests.

Madam Speaker, with those words, I support the Bill, but with reservations.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I have seen that the list is growing, but we have so much work to do. So, for me to be able to allow everyone on the list to debate, hon. Members have to one, agree to not repeat what other hon. Members have already mentioned and two, I have to cut the time from eight minutes to four minutes. Is that agreed? If it is not agreed, I will only allow two more people to debate.

Hon. Members: It is agreed.

Madam Speaker: Alright, agreed. So, the hon. Member for Chama South may debate.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for bringing this Bill at the right time. I know that as Third World or developing countries, our contribution to global warming is extremely low, and much of it has to do with change of land use, that is, from natural habitat to agriculture. That is what is affecting our environment. Many communities in the Southern Province and other areas that are experiencing serious droughts have been devastated by indiscriminate cutting down of trees.

Madam Speaker, I wish this Bill was very systematic in addressing the revenue sharing mechanism when it comes to carbon credit exchange. I know that my constituency was of the constituencies where a pilot project regarding carbon credit exchange was implemented. The benefit of carbon credit exchange to the local people needs to be worked out. For example, 90 per cent if not 100 per cent of Lundazi Forest is in Chama. However, Chief Chifunda, Chief Chikwa, and Chief Tembwe did not benefit from the carbon credit exchange arrangement while other chiefs benefited. As a result, protection of our natural habitat becomes a problem. So, when carbon exchange programmes are implemented, we should ensure that the chiefs and the communities that protect the natural habitats, particularly our forests, see the benefits. I think that when people see the benefits of carbon credit exchange, they will protect the environment.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, for carbon exchange programmes to become a reality, there is a need to reorient the minds of many forest officers because currently, deforestation and especially illegal timber logging is aided and abetted by forest officers. Those who are genuinely doing their work have become victims. For us to protect the environment, we need people who want to conserve forests to work as forest officers.

Madam Speaker, this is a good Bill and it has come at the right time. I know that challenges will come, but we will amend things as we implement the Bill. I support the Bill on behalf of the people of Chama South.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, from the outset, I want to indicate that as I was reading the Bill and the report of the Committee, I noticed that since this is a new law, we have tried to put everything into it. Ideally, as we go forward, we may need to separate the issues in the Bill. When we begin assigning duties to implement what is in the law, we should not have conflicts between two Government agencies because both agencies need to do the same thing. The report has informed us that we have different ways for approvals of issues from various stakeholders. That is why from the outset, I want to emphasise that ideally, we should have one law dealing with climate change issues and another law dealing with green economy issues in general so that the law will be clear for those who will be mandated with dealing with these issues. Nonetheless, considering that this is a new law, we have a duty to support what has been proposed.

Madam Speaker, I come from a constituency where many people are into charcoal burning. That is why every time I am given an opportunity to speak on the topic of climate change and the carbon market, I ask what method or strategy we are using to convince the people at the local level about these issues. It is very easy for those who get opportunities to travel for the conference of the parties COP 20, COP 29 or COP whatever number to agree that climate change is real. Those people will agree because they are enlightened. However, local farmers in Mwekera Forest in Kamfinsa, Katoka Mema and Kakolo without ownership documents expect to use their small pieces of land to earn some income. That is why for me, the law we are approving today is good because it speaks to general issues. However, I have not seen a strategy to convince people to migrate from what they are accustomed to other activities.

Madam Speaker, I am aware that there is a forest in Kalabo. Last year, the hon. Member of Parliament requested that we allow people to settle in that forest, and the reason is simple: as far as they are concerned, that is where the people can conduct their economic activities. For the avoidance of doubt, I am saying that we need to agree that everything looks good on paper, but this is just a good starting point. How then do we ensure that the people in our areas actually benefit from these issues? In other jurisdictions, the strategy used is direct benefits to the people. When an investor builds a school and then tells the locals to stop cutting down trees because of the new school, they will not stop because they earn their bread and butter from the forest.

Madam Speaker, I support the report and the Bill that has been brought to this august House, but I want to remind the hon. Minister to develop a local strategy to empower our people.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for allowing me to support this very progressive law on a green economy in Zambia and climate change on behalf of the people of Mbabala.

Madam Speaker, the United Party for National Development (UPND) is very clear in its manifesto and in all its pronouncements that a green economy and climate change issues are real in our environment. On the first day of the UPND Government, the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment was put in place. This showed that the UPND New Dawn Government was on top of things. The Government has also participated in various conference of the parties (COP) meetings that even you, Madam Speaker, has attended. I am not drawing you into the debate, but you led a delegation to one COP meeting and, as a country, we learned how to handle climate change issues and how to develop a green economy from it. We, as a country, are going to get a lot of value from a green economy because we are a developing nation.Madam Speaker, the people of Mbabala support this progressive Bill because the constituency is prone to many disasters, such as floods. There is also deforestation in various parts of the constituency. We have lost many trees because charcoal burning is rampant. Charcoal is the major source of energy and income for people in the constituency. Their Royal Highnesses Chief Mapanza and Chief Macha are also very concerned about this. So, they will be very happy with this law because it will bring regulation in the area of climate change and green economy.

Madam Speaker, I urge the Government to come up with innovations that will include participation of local communities in the processes proposed in the Bill. Some speakers mentioned empowerment of locals; this is the area we need to work very hard on.We also need capacity building on the carbon credit fund. Communities have to be sensitised or educated so that people know how they can benefit from the fund. We need to utilise the fund well and build the capacity of the players in the sector. The demand for charcoal is huge in our villages. So, communities need to be part and parcel of climate change programmes for us to stop the whole business of cutting trees. One non-governmental organisation (NGO) in Choma is running an innovative programme for producing briquettes. This is a wonderful programme and needs to be embraced to help our communitiesreplace charcoal and firewood with briquettes and other renewable products. I want to see such innovations, apart from tree planting and other measures, put in place to preserve our economy. We have challenges with rain because we do not have enough trees.We have an initiative here at Parliament to plant one million trees, or so; I cannot remember the target.

Madam Speaker, I support this Bill. We should restore our strength in agriculture by having a very good green economy that creates jobs or sustainable livelihoods for our people.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving me this opportunity to debate. Allow me to highlight just a few points on theIntegrated Measuring Reporting and Verification Systemoutlined in Section 18 of the Green Economy and Climate Change Bill. This section establishes the Integrated Measuring Reporting and Verification System under the Department of Green Economy and Climate Change. This system is a fundamental element of our national climate strategy.It is designed to monitor essential data, including greenhouse gas emissions, migration and adaptation actions, climate finance, capacity building and technology transfer. While the regulation mandates public and private bodies to submit data to the system, it lacks clarity. We need clarification on whether the obligation to submit data extends to community involvement in data collection. We need to incorporate data from communities to enhance the accuracy and ownership of environmental data significantly.The Bill also facilitates the climate change register, but the register is not easily accessible; it is available only during work hours. I recommend that theIntegrated Measuring Reporting and Verification System be enhanced, and it should include clear standards for data collection. Further, a centralised database should be established to ensure straightforward access to non-sensitive data. We should also provide training for all stakeholders. I know that the Bill also mandates the hon. Minister to come up with regulations to ensure that all these gaps are addressed. So, I urge the hon. Minister to come up with Statutory Instruments (SIs) that will address the gaps in terms of community participation in data collection and management of the Integrated Measuring Reporting and Verification System.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak on behalf of the people of Matero. We do not have many trees left in the constituency, so I am glad to have the opportunity to talk about this important Bill. I thank the hon. Minister, His Worship, Mike Mposha, for bringing the Bill. It is long overdue –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Do we have mayors in the House?

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment, Hon. Mike Mposha, is a former mayor of Lusaka.

Madam Speaker, this topic is cardinal and speaks to Africa, particularly Zambia. The issue of carbon credits is global. Let me say that I support the Bill. It is timely, but I want to buttress the –

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to raise a point of order. As you know, I do not usually stand to raise points of order, unless a matter is so compelling and essential that it becomes impossible for me to watch the House deteriorate because of the conduct of an hon. Member on the Floor of the House.

Madam Speaker, in keeping with the traditions and culture of the august House, your hon. Members address each other as ‘hon. Members.’Time and again, you have worked so hard to remindhon. Members that this is Parliament, not an affiliation or a group.

Madam Speaker, is the former mayor of Lusaka in order to refer to the hon. Member of Parliament for Munali as ‘former mayor,’ when you have guided repeatedly on how we must address one another in keeping with the decorum of this House.

Madam Speaker, I need your serious ruling on whether the former mayor of Lusaka is in order.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: That defeats the whole point of order.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member of Parliament for Matero was duly guided. I think that he was playing ‘cousinship’ with the hon. Minister. I think, it was on a lighter note.

May the hon. Member of Parliament for Matero continue as guided.

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, I was saying that the carbon credit topic emanates from treaties signed in Europe, Dubai, or elsewhere stipulating that countries should not cut trees and emit greenhouse gases. However, countries need to stop industries from producing fertilisers or other products to stop gas emissions. Since some countries in Europe signed a treaty not to produce emissions, they come to Africa and tell countries not to cut their trees so that those countries in Europe can be compliant with the treaty they signed. That way, they are able to access loans worth millions or billions of dollars from banks such as Crédit Agricole Corporate and Investment Bank (CIB), which requires the country borrowing money to show that it is not cutting down trees. So, those countries have done reserve psychology by coming to Africa, buying land, and showing that they have land with trees that they will not cut. They come to Africa and say ‘we have bought this land. There are 1 million trees on this piece of land. We will not cut them, but allow us to continue running our industries.’

Madam Speaker, this Bill is vital because the conduct of our colleagues from Europe borders on matters of sovereignty or virtual colonisation. For instance, an investor representing a country can go to the Southern Province or the Central Province and buy 1,000,000 ha and then say that nobody should cut trees there. Then, that country will be compliant out there and access money. They can even zoom into the land from space. So, if you cut one tree, they call you to tell you that you have broken the law. That is virtual colonisation.So, this Bill is cardinal and timely, and we should all support it.

Madam Speaker, I support the Bill, but with a caveat. I want to read from page 20 of the Bill. Clause 23 says:

“(1) A person shall not trade in carbon without a certificate of authorisation issued under this Act.

(2) A person who contravenes subsection (1) commits an offence and is liable, on conviction, to a fine not exceeding five hundred thousand penalty units or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three years, or to both.”

Madam Speaker, three years imprisonment is nothing. We have had many briefcase traders between Zambia and Europe and they have made huge amounts of dollars. They pose as agents for Zambia and sell our land even before we know it. They are making a lot of money. So, I think that three years imprisonment is nothing. We should increase the term to ten years to keep away briefcase millionaires from making money on our trees in Zambia. The people who live in the areas where the trees are, are suffering. The people benefiting from the land are those who own it virtually. The Bill is good, but the three-year imprisonment as punishment for anyone who will sell our land without proper authority should be increased to ten years.

Madam Speaker, finally, I have also noted the process of acquiring a licence. This matter borders on the Constitution of Zambia and the sovereignty of the country. People are selling our land virtually. Maybe, we should include, in the Bill, that permission to trade on our land virtually on behalf of Zambia should be sought from this House. When an investor says that we cannot cut trees on a certain piece of land, it means that farmers cannot use that land. For example, Chama, where the chief whom my hon. Colleague –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Thehon. Member's time expired.

Madam Speaker: Kindly wind up, Hon. Member, we are running out of time.

Mr Sampa:We cannot cut the trees on that land and villagers cannot cultivate on the land. So, that land is eclipsed. If somebody has to be given a licence, he or she needs to be trustworthy, and their application should be brought to the House so that we debate and approve it.

Madam Speaker, that is my submission. With that, I support the Bill.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing many hon. Members of Parliament to debate on this important Bill. I also thank all the hon. Members of Parliament who added their voices to the debate on this very important Bill. I took note of the following: Hon. Mabonga, Hon. Binwell Mpundu, Hon. S. Mwamba, Hon. Fube, Hon. Mung’andu, Hon. Kang’ombe, Hon. Munsanje, Hon. Phiri, and Hon. Miles Sampa. In certain sections of our province, Hon. Miles Sampa is known as Mailesi. I have taken note of their very important points.

Madam Speaker, I have taken note of the issue of our locals being exploited. The Bill has been brought to the House to be enacted so that carbon trade is no longer done on a voluntary basis but regulated. I have also taken note of the concern that there may be some conflict between the Environmental Management Act, the ForestAct, and the Green Economy and Climate Change Bill. I want to assure hon. Members that we will harmonise the Acts. We should review the Environmental Management Act and the Forest Act so that they are in harmony with the new law.

Madam Speaker, I have taken note of your Committee’s observations on certain key ministries. We have made a written response on the thinking of the ministry around these issues. I agree with your Committee as well as the hon. Members who raised the issue that key ministries were seemingly left out. I agree that we should make amendments to the Bill and add key ministries, such as the Ministry of Technology and Science, the Ministry of Tourism, and the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development. So, that will be taken into account.

Madam Speaker, there was an issue with the approval processes, which were mistaken to be a three-layer approval process. I want to say that the approval process is basically a two-layer process. The verifier component is an external issue. Auditors will work with the project implementers to verify the calculations. So, that is an external function; it is not part of the approval process. I assure the hon. Member of Parliament who raised the issue that I took it into account.I think that the process will be smooth. A person just has to go through the two processes.

Madam Speaker, regarding the issue of bringing in expertsas verifiers, I totally agree that there is a need to bring in experts to verify the proposed projects. I encourage more experts to come and help us with verification. So, the ministry will encourage many players to come in. We will ensure that the correct experts are invited to assist with verification.

Madam Speaker, there has been a concern that the benefitsharing mechanism is not properly highlighted. I want to emphasise that projects vary. The sizes of projects vary and because of that, the ministry thought it would be wise to highlight or elaborate on the benefitsharing mechanism in a Statutory Instrument (SI). I intend to introduce an SI after the Bill is enacted, which will elaborate on a number of componentsranging from data to how proceeds will be shared. There will be an SI to reinforce the Act.

Madam Speaker, I have also taken note of the lamentations on lack of proper benefitsor low benefits, particularly for locals. Again, the main objective of the Bill is to ensure that we properly regulate carbon trading and not disadvantage our people.

Madam Speaker, over and above, I thank all your hon. Members of Parliament for ably supporting the Bill. We will do everything possible to incorporate all the views that have been put before the House.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Question put and agreed to andthe Bill read the second time.

Committee on Tuesday, 4^thDecember, 2024.

THE PLANT HEALTH BILL, 2024

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Mtolo): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be read the second time.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Agriculture is proposing to introduce a Bill in Parliament to repeal and replace the Plant Pests and Diseases ActChapter 233 in order to update the regulations and protocols on control of pests and diseases and plant quarantine and international trade, including the domestication of the Harmonised Seed Regulations on Quarantine and Phytosanitary Measures and the International Standards for Phytosanitary Measures.

Madam Speaker, the current Plant Pests and Diseases Act Chapter 233 of the Laws of Zambia was enacted in 1958 to provide for the eradication and prevention of the spread of plant pests and diseases in Zambia, and for the prevention of the introduction into Zambia of plant pests and diseases. However, the plant health landscape in Zambia has evolved significantly over the past sixty-six years and the Act is no longer sufficient to address the current challenges faced in the plant health landscape. Currently, Zambia is faced with significant challenges due to the increasing threats posed by pests and diseases. These threats compromise Zambia's food security, market access, socio-economic stability, environmental health, technological advancements, and export competitiveness on the global market.

Madam Speaker, the principles of the Plant Health Bill are to:

protect plant resources by prevention of the introduction of alien invasive species;

provide the functions of the Plant Quarantine and Phytosanitary Social Services Department;

provide for the registration of pest controllers and plant related structures in order to smoothly facilitate trade;

regulate imports and exports to prevent the introduction and spread of diseases;

give effect to the International Plant Protection Convention established in 1952, which Zambia is a party;

repeal the Plant Pests and Disease Act, 1958; and

provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Mabonga: Madam Speaker, in accordance with its terms of reference as set out under Standing Order No. 206(a) and 207(j) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024, your Committee considered the Plant Health Bill No. 20 of 2024. In order to appreciate the ramifications of the Bill, your Committee interacted with stakeholders, who tendered both written and oral submissions before it.

Madam Speaker, as the House may be aware, the regulatory framework for protecting cultivated and wild plants is inadequate in responding to issues relating to plant health in the country. As a result, the Plant Health Bill No. 20 of 2024has been presented to the National Assembly for enactment into law.It is envisaged that once the Bill is enacted, it will strengthen and promote the effective regulation of plant health and address the evolving challenges in contemporary agriculture, trade facilitation, and phytosanitary matters.

Madam Speaker, your Committee supported the Bill, but it has made some observations and recommendations, which I will now highlight. Your Committee is concerned that although Clause 35 provides for prevention of invasive alien species, this provision is limited in terms of controlling invasive alien species, such as lantana camara, which are already in the country. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Bill be amended to include a provision that addresses the threat of invasive alien species of flowers that are already in the country. Further, it is the view of your Committee that the law should list prohibited invasive alien species in homes and public places and empower relevant authorities to remove and destroy them when it is necessary to do so.

Madam Speaker, another issue that caught the attention of your Committee is the lack of knowledge and information about phytosanitary processes and related services among some key stakeholders. Your Committee is of the view that the lack of information may disadvantage users, such as transporters, customs officers, farmers, extension officers, inspectors and many other interested groups.In this regard,your Committee strongly recommends that the Government conducts robust sensitisation and awareness programmes, especially among users, such as transporters, customs officers, farmers, extension officers, and inspectors, among others. Your Committee further recommends that the Government develops a phytosanitary information management system that will serve as a repository for pest information.

Madam Speaker, your Committee also observed that Part VI of the Bill prohibits the exportation of a product, plant products or an article without a phytosanitary certificate. Your Committee is concerned about how difficult it will be if the import and export processes shall be done manually or on a separate platform by one institution, as it will result in unnecessary delays and loss of documents.In this regard, your Committee recommends that all the processes from the application for permits, inspections, export and import of a plant, plant products or articles be automated and integrated in a single window under the co-ordinated border management system.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, allow me to render my sincere gratitude to you and the Clerk of the National Assembly and his staff for the guidance and support rendered to the Committee throughout its deliberations. Further, your Committee wishes to thank all the stakeholders who made submissions to it during the consideration of the Bill.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate on behalf of the people of Chilubi.

Madam Speaker, the Bill could not have come at a better time because technology has changed, and many pests that attack plants have been introduced on the market. There is a need to link this Bill to the Biosafety Act that we already have. The Biosafety Act seems to address issues of genetically modified organisms (GMOs), but in some way, these two Bills intersect especially on issues to do with plants.

Madam Speaker, I would like to concentrate on the issue of pests, outbreaks, pest-free areas and pest analysis.Part III of the Bill addresses registration of pest controllers. In summary, I can just say that pest controllers are pathogenic agents that can affect plants. That means when there is an outbreak of pests in an area, people would be required to register as pest controllers. Look at the definition of plant and plant products. Many people in Zambia have materials for controlling pests, such as sprayers. In my view, those people control pests. People share plants. I can give my neighbour a plant and that neighbour could, in turn, give the plant to another person. The acting chairperson of the Committee addressed the phytosanitary concerns. If we do not control pests at homestead level, pests are likely to spread. Therefore, we need to relax the law on the issue of pest control because some people will pay fines if they will take it upon themselves to spray pests on farms to control pests. I have in mind the definition of a plant as well as a plant product. People may be found wanting with this law.

Madam Speaker, currently we do not have the Plant Quarantine and Phytosanitary Services Department throughout the country. That means Section 3 may affect many factors. If we do not put in place measures to deal with plant health, or if we do not have a centralised system to monitor issues concerning plant health, plants and plant products are not going to be monitored properly. I know that a law may be introduced and then infrastructure can be developed thereafter, but we need to pay attention to the points of entry, especially when it comes to circulation of plants so that we take care of plant health.

Madam Speaker, I must emphasise the need for laboratories. I note that the research centres that deal with plants countrywide are not more than ten, yet we have 116 districts. Plant life technically deals with life. We are talking about the health of maize, groundnuts and many other plants. The role of local government in ensuring that plant health is attended to properly is important. We will miss the point if we will leave the issue of plant health entirely to the Ministry of Agriculture. If we leave the issue to the extension officers in the Ministry of Agriculture, it means that we will have to retrain them. We have to monitor the issue because if we do not, we will be shooting in the dark with this Bill.

Madam Speaker, I would like to look at Section 37 on the declaration of a phytosanitary emergency. When such an emergency happens, we will need to carry out a proper phytosanitary analysis, meaning that we will need to get data from the grassroot. However, when you look at the way the Bill has been structured from page 1 to the last page, you will see that the flow of information is from top to bottom. It reads as director this, director that. Information will be coming from the directorate that will be created. That directorate has to trigger an alarm or early warning system regarding plant health. I think that is a problem. Section 37 depends on what will be picked on the ground. This Bill emphasises the directorate and flow of information from top to bottom. The directorate has to trigger everything, including the issue of laboratories in Section 10.

Madam Speaker, we all know that the ministry personnel are not widespread. We know that there are many hanging issues. I have already said that the decentralisation of the Plant Quarantine and Phytosanitary Services Department to district level will help the situation. Infrastructure should be created for the department, or else it will be very difficult to implement the Bill.

Madam Speaker, that said, I support the Bill. It has come at the right time. There is a need to monitor the biosafety of our plants. I support the Bill, but I have reservations, which I have already made.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I would like to sincerely thank Hon. Maureen Mabonga for her input. I have taken note of the two points that she raised, which are very important. She raised the issue of invasive plants in the country and how we will eradicate them. She also raised the issue of awareness. I thank her for that.

Madam Speaker, I have also taken what Hon. Fube said. I would like to give him comfort that the Plant Quarantine and Phytosanitary Services Department is quite decentralised; it is at almost all the critical borders. We can debate on that. I thank him for making us aware that we need to further decentralise the department by improving staffing levels at the district and other levels.

Madam Speaker, having said that, the enactment of the Plant Health Bill has several positive implications that are of benefit to Zambia, including the following:

the Bill will address the limitation of the old Act, the Plant Pests and Diseases Act, 1958;

the Bill will provide enhanced facilitation of safe local and international trade of plant, plant-based products and other articles; and

the Plant Health Bill will also provide a framework that will strengthen our plant health and phytosanitary systems by aligning them to international practices and standards.

Madam Speaker, the enactment of the Plant Health Bill, 2024 will enable Zambia to effectively and efficiently enforce regulation on plant health, which is one of the key drivers of agricultural productivity. Plant pests and diseases are rated among the main causes of crop production losses. If not adequately addressed, plant pests and diseases can lead to several challenges, including food insecurity, increased poverty levels, loss of trade and reduced economic growth, among others.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to the committee of the Whole House.

Committee to be taken in due course.

______

HOUSE IN COMMITTEE

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

THE ZAMBIA NATIONAL PUBLIC HEALTH INSTITUTE(Amendment) BILL, 2024

Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 3 – (Amendment of section 4)

The Minister of Health (Mr Muchima): Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 3, on page 3, in lines 17 to 19 by the deletion of the words “, in collaboration with the National Health Research and Training Institute,”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 3, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed.

THE JUDICIARY ADMINISTRATION (Amendment) BILL, 2024

Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

THE ZAMBIA INSTITUTE OF QUANTITY SURVEYORS BILL, 2024

Clause 1 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 2 – (Interpretation)

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima) (on behalf of the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi)):Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 2, on page 8, in line 16 by the insertion of the following marginal note:

“Act No. 4 of 2013”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 2, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 10 – (Registrar and other staff)

Mr Syakalima: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 10, on page 13, in lines 10 to 11by the deletion of the words “Establishment of Quantity Surveyors Registration Board”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 10, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30 and 31 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 32 – (Foreign quantity surveying providing quantity surveying services)

Mr Syakalima: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 32, on page 20, in line 2 by the deletion of the word “quantity” immediately after the word “Republic”.

Clause 32, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 32 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59 and 60 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

FIRST AND SECOND SCHEDULES

First and Second Schedules ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

________

HOUSE RESUMED

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bills were reported to the House as having passed through Committee with amendments.

The Zambia National Public Health Institute (Amendment) Bill, 2024

The Zambia Institute of Quantity Surveyors Bill, 2024

Report Stage on Wednesday, 4^th December, 2024.

The following Bill was reported to the House as having passed through Committee without amendments.

The Judiciary Administration (Amendment) Bill, 2024

Third Reading on Wednesday, 4^th December, 2024.

_______

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Defence and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Lufuma): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1620 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 4^th December, 2024.

___________

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Order Paper

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