Friday, 26^th July, 2024

The House met at 0900 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM SPEAKER

PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM SHAKESPEARE COLLEGE IN LUSAKA DISTRICT

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence in the Public Gallery of pupils and teachers from Shakespeare College in Lusaka District.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

IPU DELEGATE FROM IRAQ

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence in the Speaker’s Gallery of Ms Dawlat Simko from Iraq. Ms Dawlat Simko has come under the International Parliament Union (IPU).

Ms Dawlat Simko will observe the sitting of the House starting today, Friday 26^th July, 2024 to Tuesday, 30^th July, 2024 and Wednesday, 31^st July, 2024. Just for additional information, Ms Dawlat is a sixteen-year-old young lady from Iraq, …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: … who aspires to be a politician. So, please, let us show a good example as we debate today.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Madam Speaker: On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our guest into our midst.

MEETING AT THE OFFICE OF THE VICE-PRESIDENT WITH HON. MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT ON THE  2023/2024 DROUGHT

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that the Office of the Vice-President will hold a meeting with hon. Members of Parliament from the eighty-four districts that have been severely affected by the 2023/2024 drought. Please, note that the list of the affected districts has been placed in the Members’ pigeon holes to ascertain which constituencies are involved.

The objective of the meeting is to discuss strategies for relief food distribution within the respective constituencies with Her Honour the Vice-President. The meeting will take place on Tuesday, 30^th July, 2024, in the Auditorium at Parliament Buildings from 0930 hours to 1230 hours.

Kindly note that attendance at the meeting is on a voluntary basis.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Laughter

Madam Speaker: You want to eat when the members of the public are not eating. 

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URGENT MATTERS WITHOUT NOTICE

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I have noticed indications of urgent matters without notice.  We will only allow three. So, we will start with the ones who normally do not ˗ I can see withdrawals. So, now there are two indications. We will start with the hon. Member for Nkana.

MR B. MPUNDU, HON. MEMBER FOR NKANA, ON HER HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT, MRS NALUMANGO ON ABDUCTION CASES IN THE COUNTRY

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity. I raise this Urgent Matter without Notice, which I would like to direct at Her Honour the Vice-President who is also the Leader of Government Business in the House.

Madam Speaker, fear has gripped many Zambians as we speak, today. At first, it seemed like it was just politics but, now, it has become apparent and very clear that this is very real. Her Honour the Vice-President is aware that two days ago, the Director-General of the Independent Broadcasting Authority (IBA) was abducted and shot dead. This follows the abduction of Hon. J. E. Banda, …

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr B. Mpundu: … Member of Parliament for Petauke Central. It also follows the abduction of Judge Muma who was thrown into the Zambezi River.  Thank God, he was found alive.

Madam Speaker, at first, it seemed to have been a joke but, today, the reality has dawned that there is a spate of criminal abductions that has rocked this nation and, therefore, nobody is safe. There is a tendency for people to trivialise very important and sensitive matters like this one, but we will not do that anymore.

Madam Speaker, is Her Honour the Vice-President, in order, to sit quietly there and allow fear to continue to grip the Zambian people? Nobody knows their fate tomorrow. Is Her Honour the Vice-President not supposed to come to the House to inform the nation over the abductions of Judge Muma, Hon. J. E. Banda and now, the abduction and subsequent killing of the IBA Director-General?

I seek your indulgence, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much hon. Member for Nkana. It was just yesterday when you raised a similar matter in the same wording and gave the same three examples. What I know is that the matters for Judge Muma and the hon. Member for Petauke Central happened sometime back. So, they do not qualify to be urgent matters. The recent matter is of the IBA Director-General, but as we all know, these matters are under investigation. Some of them are already in court.  The one for the IBA Director-General is a criminal matter, which is being investigated. So, I believe that it would be prejudicial for us to start discussing these matters as a House when there are under active investigations. So, let us allow the police to carry out their work and then we will learn of what happened. Of course, all of us would want to know who is involved in this criminality. We do not embrace criminal activities and all of them should be shunned. So, I believe the police are doing their work and we leave it in the capable hands of those respective institutions to do their job.

Hon. Members, let us avoid being repetitive. Our Standing Orders do not allow us to ask the same question, whether it comes as an ordinary question or as an Urgent Matter without Notice or a question during the Vice-President’s Question Time. Let us avoid being repetitive. So, we can make progress.

MR KAPYANGA, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR MPIKA, ON MR MWIIMBU, SC., HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY ON THE ABDUCTION OF THE SIX GIRLS FROM KABULONGA GIRLS SECONDARY SCHOOL

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serious Urgent Matter without Notice. The security of our citizens is very important. As I stand here, six pupils from Kabulonga Girls Secondary School were abducted three days ago and they have not been found. Our children now fear going to school because of these abductions. It is so heart breaking. I, therefore, direct this Urgent Matter without Notice at the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Madam Speaker, with the entire security infrastructure that we have, how can criminals continue terrorising our citizens without being traced and arrested? Right now, six of our daughters are being kept by criminals.

Madam Speaker: That is a new matter. I have not heard anything about the six children who have been abducted. Do you have any evidence or any information to show that the children were abducted and when it happened?

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, the children were abducted three days ago. At first, there were seven of them walking to the –

Mr Haimbe, SC.: He knows.

Mr Kapyanga: You cannot be saying he knows. We live with these people. What is your problem? Are you part of the abductors?

Madam Speaker: Order!

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, this is a very important matter. It is the life of – How can he be saying I have –

Interruptions

Mr Kapyanga: How do you trivialise such a –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

If it is a cause of discomfort in the House, then we will leave it and make progress.

Mr B. Mpundu: How?

Madam Speaker: Yes, because I do not want to have anarchy in the House. You are now exchanging words, disregarding that there is someone who is presiding over the affairs.

Mr Kapyanga interjected.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Mpika!

Let us make progress. We will now move to another item.

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THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Mr Charles Mulenga (Kwacha): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity given to me to ask Her Honour the Vice-President a question. Good morning to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, it has been the desire of all the successive Governments, starting with the United National Independence Party (UNIP) up to the present Government, the United Party for National Development (UPND), to transform this country from a mining-oriented to an agricultural-oriented country. This desire has been necessitated by quite a number of factors, such as the abundant land that we have, the favourable weather conditions, the cheap labour, as well as the fact that the country is no longer called landlocked, but land-linked, having eight plus one neighbouring countries with whom can trade favourably.

Madam Speaker, despite all these favourable conditions, we are unable to attain that desire because of the high cost involved in carrying out business. Venturing into agriculture becomes difficult because of the expensive machinery.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Kwacha, please, get to the question because we are losing time, two minutes is already gone. Get to the question because we want other hon. Members to also ask questions.

Mr Charles Mulenga: Madam Speaker, thank you for your guidance. As we approach the 2024/2025 Farming Season, the people of Kwacha would like to know if they are going to see a reduction in view of prices, especially for seed and fertiliser, which is very expensive, including machinery such as tractors. This is because they want to engage in farming so that this country can be transformed from mining-oriented to agricultural-oriented.

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, thank you and I would like to thank the hon. Member for Kwacha for that question. He premises his question on the fact that Zambia has since the United National Independence Party (UNIP) era to date, been trying to transform from being a mining-dependent to an agricultural-dependent country. According to the hon. Member, that has not been achieved.

Madam Speaker, I would say it is the prayer or hope of this Government that this will be achieved. A lot is being done. Indeed, you can also take note of our God-given position; the issue of having abundant land, water sources and neighbouring countries being a land-linked country to where we can market our produce. I hope what I will say will capture the hon. Member’s spirit. The hon. Member asked how we are going to make the environment conducive for transformation. His concern is the cost of seeds and fertiliser.

Madam Speaker, it is important to state that the Government is doing everything possible to make agriculture attractive. The hon. Member will remember that when we formed Government, the President declared, and we have continued to say that farming is a business. So, we want to transform farming into a business.

Madam Speaker, what the Government is doing is not necessarily to reduce, as you know reduction is something we should not be dreaming about. So, reduction in this case is not making the money less, but ensuring that farming inputs are made affordable and available. This Government will continue with the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), which provides fertiliser and seeds to small-scale farmers.

Madam Speaker, the Government has also gone on to ensure that there is a loan facility for the farmers. That loan facility is something that should help and encourage people to get involved in farming. We are working. For example, there is a general policy framework under the Ministry of Agriculture. Today, after forty-five minutes of the Vice-President’s Question Time, I am going to launch the Comprehensive Agriculture Transformation Support Programme (CATSP). This is because the ministry has now put all the programmes together in the quest to make agriculture viable and be business-like. Remember, it was early this year when I launched the National Agriculture Mechanism Strategy under the Ministry of Agriculture, at the Natural Resources Development College (NRDC). Under the mechanisation programme, people have been given equipment to use for farming so that they do not have to continue using holes. Therefore, they are able to get access to the equipment that is needed. So, the Government will continue to work and ensure that agriculture, indeed, takes hold.

Madam Speaker, the response of the Zambian people in the agriculture sector was very good even in the areas where there was moderate rainfall. Production has been very good because more people got involved and as we go on, it will be better. The response was very good, but unfortunately, out of 116 districts, eighty-four had rain failure. However, this is where we are going. This is the Government that may just achieve that which it has desired over time because of the policies that are being put in place.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: I will have to balance the questions because the indication here is not – I do not know what mechanism hon. Members have used.

Laughter

Mr Sialubalo (Sinazongwe): Madam Speaker, I would like to place it on record that the people of Sinazongwe are, indeed, very grateful to the New Dawn Administration because of the developmental projects that are taking place right now. One of them is the construction of the Mamba/Batoka Road. We suffered for so many years without it being done.

Madam Speaker, the people of Namazambwe Ward, Mabinga Ward and part of Muuka Ward in Sinazongwe Constituency have suffered. Even when we had enough rainfall in these areas, we could drill boreholes up to 120 m deep. However, these boreholes have dried up. We have tried to drill up to 150 m deep, but no water has been found and schools are being threatened with closure due to lack of water supply. Therefore, the people of Sinazongwe would like to know from Her Honour the Vice-President if there can be any immediate intervention to alleviate the situation.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the challenge basically is the shortage of water supply. However, I also appreciate the fact that the hon. Member is able to appreciate that this Government is working, including the construction works that are going on, on the Mamba/Batoka Road. It shows that the Government is not sitting aloof or away from the needs of the people. However, on the issue of shortage of water supply, let us start by admitting that this is an act of God. That is the way we can put things. It is not like the Government has not been drilling boreholes or it does not care. The issue of underground water means that something a little more must be done.

Madam Speaker, drilling a borehole up to 150 m deep and not finding water within our environment, is news. However, this does not mean that the Government is not doing anything about the shortage of water supply. The Government is thinking of drawing water from the nearest rivers like the Zambezi River because it has become necessary. We have to admit that the Zambezi River is also embattled because of lack of water in the river. Nevertheless, people must first have water to drink. When we have a bulky supply of water then we can direct it to the people of Sinazongwe. That is the thought of this Government and it will happen because people must survive.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from her Honour the Vice-President what transpired at the Ministry of Health, regarding the missing of the sixty-one containers of medical supplies. We understand that, yes, there is an investigation going on, although that issue is not in court.

Madam Speaker, that issue borders on sabotage and not mere administrative issues. So, where are we on that issue? This is because it affects all of us as it where in terms of the provision of essential medicines to our various constituencies and hospitals in our provinces.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I did not get the last part of the question about the constituencies. Maybe, the hon. Member can repeat the question.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, you can repeat the question and please, summarise it.

Mr Mwambazi: Madam Speaker, my question is on the missing of the sixty-one containers, which were eventually traced. However, there was a considerable lapse of time, which is six months between the time the containers were delivered and when the Ministry of Health got wind of it. What is the Government’s position because those issues border on sabotage and not mere administration lapses? What has the ministry done to avert that situation?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, from the face of it, anybody would agree with the hon. Member that this is sabotage because it has to do with the lives of the people. However, I would like to make a little correction. The containers are not missing, they were put in the wrong place and they have been recovered. Earlier, we were told in this House by the hon. Minister of Health that they were actually transporting the same containers to the Zambia Medicines and Medical Supplies Agency (ZAMMSA) premises. In fact, if I remember very well, the hon. Minister then, said that they were transporting those containers to the ZAMMSA premises using the Zambia National Services (ZNS). By today, I am told that probably all of the containers will have reached the ZAMMSA premises. So, they are not necessarily missing. However, how they were transported to another place is a matter of investigation. I am sure, heads are rolling. We have to find out what really happened. Indeed, hon. Members have the right to ask questions here, in the House, but I would pray that certain things that border on sabotage and criminality be allowed for investigations. This is because six months is a long time, but I cannot answer standing here. The investigative entities are working on that and, indeed, heads will roll.  The President has said that he will not shield anybody who is corrupt.

Madam Speaker, I thank you

Mr Chewe (Lubansenshi): Madam Speaker, my question is anchored on the issue of the Electronic Government Procurement (e-GP) System.

Madam Speaker, Zambia, as a country, is spending a lot of time making purchases for the public, in terms of goods and services, because of this procurement system that it is enjoying at the moment. However, it is a deterrent to development, especially in rural areas where we do not have a proper communication network and facilities, which support this system. Does the Government have a clear position on when it will stop using the e-GP system so that the local people, especially in rural constituencies can benefit from supplying goods and services within our constituencies?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Lubansenshi for that important question and observation on the Electronic Government Procurement (e-GP) System. He particularly spoke about the people in the rural areas.

Madam Speaker, I think, the system was established with good intentions. Observations are filtering back, as the hon. Member has said. It is feedback to the policymakers or the institutions. The system seems to be excluding rural participants who do not have electronic facilities.  That is the reality because I have also seen it. I have heard about it on the ground.  I have heard that the system is advantaging a certain class of people who have access to electronic facilities. I may not give a clear position. However, the point has been noted. It has to be looked into to see how we can clean it up and make it better. Some of these things are supposed to encourage people in rural areas to participate in the economy. Everybody should participate. When a system that is created with good intentions does not seem to achieve its goal, you have to look into it and make it better. I cannot say that we will do away with it completely. Thresholds can, probably, be looked at to enable our people to participate. The Government has taken note of that point. We are aware. We will look into it together with the hon. Members, of course.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kanengo (Kabushi): Thank you, Madam Speaker, for according me this opportunity to ask a question.

Madam Speaker, firstly, I want to appreciate what the Government has done for our retirees in terms of paying them their packages. However, there is a big challenge. Many of the people who retired or rather who were retrenched from 1996 to 1999 have not been paid. I have seen them gathering at the Ministry of Justice offices complaining about the same issue. When are they going to be paid?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for bringing out the issue about paying the retirees. I think, we have declared here, in the House, that the Government took a position to pay out retirees. However, we still have people who – (turning to Mr Haimbe, SC.). Sorry, Counsel, you are a lawyer here.

Madam Speaker, having been the Minister of Labour before, I will tell you that this is a complicated matter. The hon. Member has talked about people from the 1990s. That was a long time ago. In the short term, I would say that some, if not most of them, have gone through court processes and are still going through the processes because they may have claimed that they were paid less than what the entitlement was. We can have a serious conversation over this matter. There is also an issue of understanding. I will say that they will be paid as and when the matters are out of court. If we asked some of them, they will say that they got, for example, a K200, of course putting the time value of money into consideration. They will claim that they were not paid because they were paid less than another person who was in the same position and was paid more money three years after them.

Madam Speaker, I think, the hon. Member understands what I am trying to say. It is a complicated matter. Most of them are from parastatal bodies and some may have retired under the early retirement package. They will be paid as we go on. I cannot give a specific answer as to when they will be paid. The hon. Member can find out. Those people are going through court processes. At some point, they abandon the courts and, again, return. It is a tedious process. The 1990s was a long time ago.

Madam Speaker, I think, it is also important for hon. Members to speak frankly to the people and help them. I have given one example. When I left Parliament, as a Member of Parliament, my gratuity was different from what those who left in 2021 got. That is the way it is. I cannot start saying that I was given a small amount of money.

Madam Speaker, I think, I have said many things in this statement.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 Mr Mabumba (Mwense): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for this opportunity to ask a question. Good morning to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, I want to know when we can have an honest conversation about the budgetary allocation for the Ministry of Agriculture. If you remember, at one time, the hon. Minister came to the House with a statement on the Credit Window Facility and, then, later on, it was about the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). So, when can we have a fair and honest conversation regarding the budget for that ministry so that we can re-focus it on what we think, as a country, can be the best deliverables? Notwithstanding, FISP has been very supportive to the farmers. However, when can we re-focus the budget under the Ministry of Agriculture?

The Vice-President: Good morning to the hon. Member for Mwense.

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the question the hon. Member has asked in which he seeks to know when we are going to have a fair and honest conversation around the Ministry of Agriculture. This goes back to the earlier question on transformation in terms of the Budget. I think, the time is now. When people have good suggestions, they should bring them forward. We do not have to be political. We may not have a very fair and honest conversation here, in the House.  If there is something good for the country to discuss, we can meet in the Amphitheatre and other rooms. This is the only country we have. So, we should put in everything to make it better. Summon him (pointing at Mr Mtolo) and his people, and talk about your ideas. I do not think any hon. Minister who wants to work for the people would refuse to listen.

 Madam Speaker, as long as the hon. Member has something to contribute, he can approach the ministry. He may not do it well here, in the House, because, unfortunately, it has become too political. The honest and fair way is approaching the hon. Minister and his people who should be available so that those who are interested can meet them to discuss and re-focus, if there is a need.

Hon. Members should not keep the knowledge to themselves. We are not in a competition in the House. We will compete when we are campaigning. When we are here, we have to help the country.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, through my office, you have a lot of power to summon an hon. Minister to explain any matter that you are not clear on. So, use that power.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, according to the National Cancer Registry, the statistics that we have of people who are dying of cancer and the new cases of cancer being recorded are very high. There are over 7,000 people who have died and over 12,000 new cases of cancer. The number keeps on growing. Today, as a nation, we have continued sending cancer patients to India and Tanzania. Most of them do not make it. They die while waiting in the queue. I want to know if Her Honour the Vice-President can give us an update on the new equipment that is supposed to be installed at the cancer hospital. How far has the process gone so that the people out there can know that this is a caring Government and that the machine is actually being installed?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Kabwata for his question on the issue of cancer. I think all of us here, in the House, being Zambians, have seen the rise in cancer cases of all sorts. It is terrible and it is affecting all ages. I agree with the hon. Member that because of not having equipment, the number of deaths has increased. The expense of sending people abroad is also contributing to the high number of deaths being recorded because many times we fail to send everybody and some just die here, in our country. Even for those patients who go abroad, the cost is high.

Madam Speaker, I know the hon. Member asked about the equipment. However, what I have learned is that the Government is doing everything possible, with co-operating partners, to ensure that the issue of cancer disease is addressed. I believe, there is a hospital that is being constructed in Ndola for cancer diseases. That is something that we must appreciate. When people hear of the construction of a facility, it means it comes with the equipment. So, the equipment is going to be part of the hospital.

Madam Speaker, regarding the procurement of the equipment for the cancer hospital in Lusaka, I am aware that the tender has already been finalised. In fact, the contractor has already been identified. This cements the whole process. Basically, we are hoping that the delivery of the equipment will be done within this year. I know when one is not well, or when one has a patient and hears that the delivery of the equipment will be this year, one thinks of December and starts panicking. However, this is the way it is. 

Madam Speaker, the equipment will come with a package of service. We have had issues where we get machines and part of the contract to do with service is not well done. I think, the procurement of this particular equipment has been well looked at. Indeed, we will continue to send our people out, but the issue is that there is a hospital, and also the equipment is already under procurement.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, two years ago on 11^th August, 2022, at the 16th Cabinet Meeting, the Cabinet approved, in principle, the repeal of the National Youth Development Council Act to replace it with a new Bill that would govern the National Youth Development Council. This follows a petition by a citizen by the name of Ruth Kangwa on the archaic National Youth Development Council Act. It has been two years since the Cabinet approved the introduction of a new National Youth Development Council Act. The youths of this country constitute over 75 per cent of the population. What challenges is the Government having to repeal this archaic Act?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Nalolo for that very important question.

Madam Speaker, we say the youths are the future. Therefore, issues that affect the youths now must be looked at. The hon. Member will forgive me sincerely that I cannot provide the answer now because I have to consult, and then I will come back to the House with the response. I do not want to say things anyhow. I have to follow up on what has happened along the line and the challenges we have, then I can come back to the House with the response. Probably, the hon. Member can remind me next week if I forget so that I can also push to get the information that is needed. Right now, I would mislead the House.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I will give an opportunity to an honourable young technician so that the hon. Member from Turkey can learn the manner of questioning.

Laughter

Mr Simumba (Nakonde): Madam Speaker, thank you very much. Her Honour the Vice-President promised the Zambian people that the Government will fight corruption without any segregation. Yesterday, the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) mentioned that there are some hon. Ministers who are being investigated, but their names have not been mentioned. However, among those who are being investigated is the Mayor of Livingstone, and the name was mentioned.  Why is the Government failing to mention the names of those hon. Ministers who are being investigated? Is this the reason the ACC has been moved to State House for shielding purposes?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I heard people laugh, but I have missed what was said. Fight corruption –

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Honestly, I did not get everything.

Mr Simumba: I can repeat the question.

 Interruptions

The Vice-President: From the grandfather youth?

Mr Simumba: I can repeat the question.

The Vice-President: That is okay. We want answers to be given in this House.

Madam Speaker: Basically, the hon. Member was asking about the failure by the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) to name the hon. Ministers who are being investigated. That was the gist of his question.

The Vice-President: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I think, we will start naming everybody that is being investigated.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, why are we asking such questions?

Interruptions

The Vice-President: No, hear me, please. Any one of us could be under investigation. Are we going to name everyone under investigation? Is that the way you run a country? No.

Mr Kasandwe: We have to know their names.

The Vice-President: Stop answering, Sir.

Madam Speaker, I think, we have had this conversation before through many other questions that were brought on the Floor of the House. This is the reality.  An investigation is not meant to be public.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

The Vice-President: Listen to me. Do you mean that if I am being investigated, the investigative wing should inform me?

Mr Simumba: The former First Lady was named.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

 Is that the example that you are exhibiting?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, if that is the way hon. Members want things to be done, then they are not being real.

Madam Speaker, for some of those who were being suspected, evidence is already there and they may even be appearing in court. However, we cannot tell everybody that they are being investigated. Do we want them to cover their tracks?

Hon. PF Members: They should resign.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, one cannot resign if one is just being investigated. There has to be some evidence. This is the same answer that I gave on the Floor of this House over the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC) Report. An investigation is very important. Let people get evidence. When that is done, then surely somebody will be arrested. That is why I have repeated this. One media house wrote something on what the President said concerning corruption, that he will not shield anyone who is corrupt. That is what is important. We cannot hide criminality; it will come out at the right time. We cannot arrest everyone based on suspicions. What if we find that what you are saying is not true and maybe, I received US$12 million from my late uncle who lived in the United States of America (USA).

Hon. PF. Member: Question!

The Vice-President: Listen, people can be suspicious; how does Nalumango become rich with US$12 million? I have said this before. My honourable son for Nkana, that suspicion is a red flag to investigate, but that is no reason to arrest me, because, at the end of the day, I may petition or sue the State. You may just find that the suspicious money came from my dead uncle in America. What are you going to do? So, first, investigate. Follow it through, have evidence, and then arrest people. I think it is simple.

Madam Speaker, that is the way investigations are carried out. The investigative wings are busy investigating many people. They cannot go and start arresting people because they are being investigated. When tangible evidence is found, that is presentable and admissible in a court of law, then they will arrest.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simushi (Sikongo): Madam Speaker, corruption in this country had reached critical levels during the previous Administration.

Laughter

Mr Simushi: However, we are comforted as a country because we have a President now in office who has pledged to fight this cancer of the past, present and future. This we have seen in the measures that have been put in place and the resources that have been directed to the institutions that are mandated to fight this corruption. However, we have seen unfortunate situations in which some people in our country are trying to trivialise this fight against corruption and are trying to show that the President and his Administration are merely playing rhetoric to this important fight against corruption. My question is: What message of comfort does Her Honour the Vice-President have for the Zambian people and those who think that the fight against corruption is merely rhetoric?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Sikongo for that question. He has repeated what the President repeats all the time. Some matters may seem slow, but when things start happening, then people will say that the President is serious. Even now, it is not just rhetoric, the fight is real. Let us not trivialise matters.  When people are arrested then they will start saying something else because it is on them. The wheels of justice may seem to move slowly, but they surely move. This is the commitment that the Government has. The fight is against the past, present and future corruption. There is no rhetoric. Let us not trivialise the fight against corruption because the President of this country is committed to that.

Madam Speaker, even now, some people are still appearing in court. People have lost jobs because of allegations, but the courts will prove them innocent or guilty, and if found guilty, they will pay whether through jail terms or other means. This Government is not living rhetoric. It is fighting. Let us all hold hands and see that we do not allow corruption.

Madam Speaker, corruption is so difficult to define by some individuals. For example, I know of somebody who was requested to help stop the rot of smuggling maize. One may do that because it fits them or they may think that they are being wise. A lot of us will be caught in corrupt practices because we sometimes think it is favour, or fortune or they may say it is God helping us to quickly do things in an abnormal way. This is not rhetoric. This Government is fighting corruption. People will explain for themselves. The President and the entire team will not shield corrupt people. So, let us all wake up. Whether you are in the Government or the Opposition, uzafyantiwa.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Malambo (Magoye): Madam Speaker –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chama South, you have just come into the House. You know that according to our Standing Orders, one cannot raise a point of order during the Vice-President’s Question Time, or has it slipped your mind?

Mr Mung’andu: What is uzafyantiwa?

Madam Speaker: Well, you can raise a point of order after this session

Laughter

Mr Malambo: Madam Speaker, many people especially in the Opposition have been lamenting that they need the President to declare his assets publicly. What is the take of Her Honour the Vice- President and what is the position of the law in relation to that?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Do not fear adoption. You should serve the people.

Madam Speaker, it will not even be my position. It will be the lawful position of this country. People think we are lawyers. We are not lawyers, rather we are lawmakers.

Madam Speaker, we had a law under Article 34 in the Constitution of Zambia of 2016. The law provided for such declarations and made the declaration public. However, I do not know what caused us to change that law in 2016. This law now appears in Article 100 of the Constitution of Zambia.

Hon. Members, you have the Constitution. The provision is that the President will make the declaration before the Chief Justice and then it is silent on whether the public needs to know. So, there is no demand as previously was when the declaration was made public. That is how we knew that there was an increase in the value of the President’s assets then, from K2 million to K23 million or something like that.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: That part of the Constitution was removed. Hon. Colleagues, when we are making laws, let us stand here (on the Government Bench) while seeing ourselves there (on the Opposition Bench). This is very serious and it goes to all of us. When I stand here and make laws, I must know that tomorrow, I may just sit on the other side. If we find ourselves on the Opposition side, that may even be better for us because we may find ourselves outside where we have no say. Let us make laws that are good for the country, not political laws.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: We cannot change the law as it appears now. So, that declaration is not put in the law. It is not set out like that. I am sure the lawyer student there has already read (referring to Hon. B. Mpundu). I have seen that he is surprised why the law is the way it is.

Laughter

The Vice-President: I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, I want to make a request. I seek a word from Her Honour the Vice-President on the distribution of Eagle mealie meal. The people of Kalabo are experiencing many problems in acquiring this mealie meal. What effort has the Government made to make sure that this mealie meal is distributed to the furthest parts of our country where the Zambian people are suffering because of the drought, which has affected the yields resulting in food shortages?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the House need to remember that there is a general drought response programme. This is where the Government is mostly paying people through the Social Cash Transfer (SCT)Scheme, Enhanced Social Cash Transfer and giving out some relief food. However, there is also a programme known as a cash-for-work as the Government’s remedy towards the lack of sufficient food.

Madam Speaker, I apologise if the hon. Members do not agree with me, but we should encourage people to start buying maize. It is cheaper. Let us face that fact. A 50 kg bag of maize is priced at K330 and a 25 kg bag is half the price of a 50kg bag. Hon. Members, we are the leaders. So, let us encourage our people to buy maize instead of waiting for mealie meal, which at the end of the day, is priced higher and sometimes, not available.

Madam Speaker, the Zambia National Services (ZNS), which produces the Eagle mealie meal is continuously working on how it can reach out to more people. That includes contracting other people who can help redistribute the mealie meal. The ZNS is also allowing smaller outlets to buy and resell, but it must be clearly put forth. The smaller outlets must be known by the Government. The purpose is to help keep the pricing at affordable levels.

Madam Speaker, there is a need to identify which other people in Kalabo Central Constituency are in this trade so that they can work with the ZNS.

Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for bringing out that point. In fact, I wanted to give that as the first answer and then keep quiet. Nonetheless, this is not directly under the drought mitigation that the Government is handling. It might be helpful for the House to look at this issue on Tuesday. However, I urge the hon. Member to find people who can be contracted by the ZNS so that they can also sell on behalf of the ZNS.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, at least we tried. The indications were something else, but I tried to balance. More people still wanted to ask questions, but we could not allow everyone. We will try to do better next time.

_______

Mr Mung'andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mung'andu: Madam Speaker, my point of order is directed at Her Honour the Vice-President. As you guided, points of order should be raised contemporaneously. Unfortunately, the rules of the House do not allow us to rise on a point of order during the Vice-President’s Question Time.

Madam Speaker, Her Honour the Vice-President used a very strange word, which the people of Zambia need to understand. She said; hon. Members who are involved in corruption whether from the right or left side of the House, tifyanta. What does that mean? The people of Zambia need to understand what will happen to those people involved in corrupt activities.

Hon. Member: Kukufyanta kunanikane.

Madam Speaker: I will give Her Honour the Vice-President an opportunity to explain that word because I do not understand it either.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Chama South Constituency is supposed to help me translate the word. I was trying to use his language. In fact, I said muzafyantiwa or muzagwiliwa, meaning that the people involved in corruption allegations will be arrested. They will pay, be prosecuted and squeezed until they are no longer corrupt.

Laughter 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, the word, therefore, means that corrupt people will be squeezed until they cannot breathe anymore.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapyanga: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, allow me to thank Her Honour the Vice-President for attending to all the questions asked on the Floor of the House today.

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order against the hon. Member for Sikongo Constituency. When the hon. Member asked Her Honour the Vice-President a question, he made serious allegations against the former ruling party without laying any evidence on the Table of the House as it where in accordance with our Standing Orders. He made those allegations even when he knows that the national youth chairman for the United Party for National Development (UPND) has been involved in a land scandal –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

You are now the one bringing issues to the House. Do you have evidence regarding the allegations you just mentioned?

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, it involves K2 million.

Madam Speaker: If you are not satisfied, you can write a letter of complaint. I cannot remember what allegation the hon. Member for Sikongo made towards the former ruling party. However, you can file in a complaint if you feel so strongly about it. You were raising a point of order against the hon. Member for Sikongo for making serious allegations while you are also making serious allegations, yet you do not even have evidence to lay on the Table of the House. So, let us avoid dramatising things. Therefore, this point of order is not admitted.

Mr Fube: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, I have observed that the hon. Members who are given credentials to join in the proceedings of the House virtually are abusing them. Regarding the dress code, we can see how Hon. J. Chibuye is dressed. He is wearing a cap, contrary to our Standing Orders. It is not only him, but many other hon. Members like Hon. Munsanje, who wore a T-shirt, of some conference he was attending.

 Madam Speaker, you asked hon. Members who are joining in the proceedings virtually to make sure that they switch on their videos so that they can also absorb the dress code of Parliament in accordance with our Standing Orders. The House has seen that Hon. J. Chibuye is with his children and he is wearing a cap while attending this sitting virtually. That is not parliamentary and it is disturbing to our eyes. If we pay attention, we will see that many hon. Members are abusing the online facility. I am not familiar with our new Standing Orders, but in our old one, the dress code for hon. Members was on Standing Order No. 206. 

I seek your ruling, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: I will refer to Standing Order No. 216. Hon. Member for Chilubi, you are not the only one who has noticed that kind of dress code. From here, I always observe the dress code of hon. Members who join us virtually. According to Standing Order No. 216, the rules are very clear on the dress code. It states that when joining the sitting virtually, we have to observe the dress code as is required when attending a sitting of the House.

On numerous occasions, we have seen hon. Members join us virtually while some of them are eating, others are talking to other people, and some of them even dosing. Each time we notice this, we always disconnect the hon. Member who are not properly attired.

Hon. J. Chibuye, what are you wearing? Is that proper attire for the House? Is that a cap that you are wearing, or is it a crown?

Mr J. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, I am wearing a bubu. It is traditional attire.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Unfortunately, a bubu is not allowed. Hon. Members, please, make sure that you are attired accordingly, in accordance with the Standing Orders. The attire must be acceptable, and the background must also be acceptable.

I can also see the hon. Member for Dundumwezi who has joined us virtually. Hon. Member, are you in a vehicle?

Laughter

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Speaker, I am in a vehicle, because of network challenges where I am.

Madam Speaker: You are not supposed to join in virtually when you are in a motor vehicle.

All those hon. Members who have joined the sitting virtually and are not appropriately attired will be disconnected by the Information and Communication Technology (ICT) desk. They will be deemed not to have taken part in the proceedings.

Let us make progress.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

PROCUREMENT OF MORTUARY EQUIPMENT FOR HOSPITALS IN CHILUBI DISTRICT

402. Mr Fube (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Health:

1. Whether the Government has any plans to procure mortuary equipment for the following hospitals in Chilubi District; Chilubi Mainland; Santa Maria Mission Hospital;
2. If so, when the plans will be implemented;
3. What the estimated timeframe for the completion of the project is;
4. What the cost of the project is; and
5. If there are no such plans, why?

The Minister of Health (Mr Muchima): Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to procure mortuary units not only for Chilubi Mainland and Santa Maria Hospitals, but for all hospitals countrywide that do not have mortuary units. This is to ensure that hospitals have capacity to temporarily keep dead bodies until relatives claim the bodies of their departed loved ones, keep unclaimed dead bodies or keep dead bodies requiring pathological postmortem.

Madam Speaker, due to limited fiscal space, the procurement of mortuary units of all hospitals countrywide that do not have mortuary units, including, Chilubi Mainland and Santa Maria hospitals, is being implemented in a phased approach. In the current phase, ten mortuary units have been procured and Chilubi Mainland Hospital has been allocated one. The six-body mortuary unit has since been delivered to Chilubi Mainland Hospital awaiting installation. Santa Maria Hospital is also expected to benefit from the phased procurement of mortuary units for all the hospitals countrywide, which do not have mortuary units within the current Medium-Term Expenditure Framework.

Madam Speaker, the estimated timeframe for the installation of the six-body capacity mortuary unit at Chilubi Mainland Hospital, is August 2024. The procurement and installation of a mortuary unit for Santa Maria Hospital is expected to be implemented within the current Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, subject to the availability of funds. 

Madam Speaker, the cost of a six-body mortuary unit for Chilubi Mainland is K806,000 and this includes procurement of the mortuary unit, delivery, installation and commissioning.

Madam Speaker, as mentioned earlier, the Government has plans to procure mortuary units not only for Chilubi Mainland and Santa Maria Hospitals, but for all hospitals countrywide that do not have mortuary units. Therefore, part (e) of the question falls off.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, on behalf of the people of Chilubi, I have noticed that most of the responses that hon. Ministers give on the Floor of the House have to do with a countrywide approach, when the question is specifically about Chilubi. I would like to complain that we, the people of Chilubi, should not be considered as countrywide because the question is specific to Chilubi.

Madam Speaker, having said that, I would like to appreciate that the hon. Minister talked about delivering a mortuary unit, which I think should be at Chaba Hospital, because he said that one mortuary unit has been allocated to Chilubi Mainland. As far as I am concerned, I am yet to make serious follow-ups because the hon. Minister talked about delivery and I want to get clarification from him. He mentioned that one mortuary unit has been procured. Is it for Chilubi Mainland or Santa Maria? I will ask another question later, because I am only entitled to one question at a goal. I do not know if it should be Chilubi Mainland or Santa Maria.

Mr Muchima: Madam Speaker, I stated that the mortuary unit is for Chilubi Mainland. As for Santa Maria, it will be delivered later.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister talked about the cost of a mortuary unit being K806, 000, if I got him right. However, when we look at Santa Maria and Chilubi Mainland, the distance to these places is different, and what is involved to get there is different. Access to one is through water, and the other one can be accessed through Luwingu when delivering. How is it that the cost of the mortuary unit is the same, yet what could be spent in terms of transportation could be different?  If that can be unbundled, I would appreciate it.

Mr Muchima: Madam Speaker, my response was very clear here. I said that the cost is for six-body mortuary units for Chilubi Mainland and not Santa Maria. The cost is specifically for Chilubi Mainland. The costs are not uniform and this cost is specific. When we come to Santa Maria, the cost might be different as the hon. Member perceived.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chala (Chipili): Madam Speaker, in his statement the hon. Minister stated that the Government has plans to procure motor vehicles for all the hospitals countrywide. I want to know whether he was referring to the vehicles that have been procured through the Constituency Development Funds (CDF) or the Central Government has separate funds to procure these vehicles for the hospitals.

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member for Chilubi complained when the term “countrywide” was introduced. He wants answers specifically for his constituency. Since the hon. Minister said countrywide, I will allow him to answer.

Mr Muchima: Madam Speaker, the question was specifically relating to mortuary units and not motor vehicles. If you quoted me in Kabwe, it is true that we were distributing some motor vehicles, and then ambulances will follow. This Government is very responsible, and it is aware of all the problems everywhere, it will be done.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

REHABILITATION OF FEEDER ROADS IN MBABALA

CONSTITUENCY

403. Mr Munsanje (Mbabala) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

1. whether the Government has any plans to rehabilitate feeder roads in Mbabala Parliamentary Constituency;
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
3. if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to rehabilitate all feeder roads that are in deplorable state in Zambia including those that are in Mbabala Parliamentary Constituency. However, this is dependent on the availability of funds.

Madam Speaker, at this juncture, Choma Municipal Council where Mbabala sits will be doing some light work in the form of grading in the short and medium term using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

Madam Speaker, the plans will be implemented as soon as funds are made available. Since plans to rehabilitate the feeder roads are there, it goes without saying that part (c) of the question falls off.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: This is again a constituency-based question.

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, we remain very thankful to the New Dawn, United Party for National Development (UPND) Government for the enhanced Constituency Development Fund (CDF). This has allowed us to carry out several works including on the roads that we selected as the CDF committee to deliver. We are actually working on these CDF selected roads right now, such as the Nalituba Road, the one in Mayobo, and many others that will be constructed such as Lugwalo and Kachenje. 

Madam Speaker, I am particularly interested in roads like Pemba/Mang'unza, Macha/Muyobe to Mbabala, the Rupp Road, and Habbobota to Simaubi/Kabanze. This is because these are major trunk roads that are not under our jurisdiction as the CDF Committee. These are roads that have been maintained by the Government for so many years. However, in the last ten years, these roads have been neglected. So, now that we have the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, we request the hon. Minister to come to our rescue and help us work on these major roads.

Madam Speaker: Is that a question or a submission?

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, it is a submission to the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development as to whether he can consider working on these three key roads in the constituency.

Mr Nkombo: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I also thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Mbabala for his submission and plea.

Madam Speaker, it is common knowledge what is happening in the rural road sector, and so I can only say that his plea will be considered as soon as funds are made available. The over-ranking factor here is the availability of funds and, therefore, nothing happens in a vacuum.

Madam Speaker, at this point in time, my ministry has been made very busy liquidating huge amounts of money that we found when entering payment certificates for jobs that have been certified as being completed in the last many years. According to the hon. Member for Mbabala, ten years is a long time, as he said that those trunk roads have not been worked on in ten years. So, he should be assured that we are working overtime to ensure that the entire country gets the attention that it may have lacked in the years that he referred to.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kambita indicated.

Madam Speaker: I can see that there is a lot of interest in this matter.

Mr Kambita (Zambezi­ East): Madam Speaker, as I ask this question I seek your indulgence.  I know that a ruling has been made that this is a constituency-based question, but for you to see this interest it means it is a very serious issue that concerns everyone. So, when we chance the hon. Minister like this, giving Government policy, it becomes an opportunity for him to clarify a little further. This is for the benefit of the people out there who are expectant of the policy of the Government, especially concerning the feeder roads, which are actually an eyesore in every constituency.

 

Madam Speaker, not too long ago, we got an assurance that the Government was going to get a facility, in fact, it did get a facility from the World Bank. Some places, of course during the previous regime, received part of that facility and some feeder roads were worked on.  I want to find out, by extension, in this regime, whether that facility still subsists to the point that we should be expectant that the feeder roads in Mbabala will be worked on any time soon? This includes those feeder roads in Zambezi-East, the road in Depalata, which the hon. Minister knows, Depalata to Nyakulen’ga and the road to Mpidi. All these roads are in the same category. So, since the hon. Minister is one of those who is privileged to sit where policies are made, can he kindly update the nation on the status of the funding of these feeder roads?

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: I hope, the hon. Minister is not being taken by surprise.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, there are no surprises, because we are one Government.  Let me start by appreciating the hon. Member of Parliament for Zambezi East for that very straightforward question. 

Madam Speaker, yes, indeed, you said that this was a constituency-based question. However, the hon. Member very cleverly brought in his constituency, basically putting my matrimonial settings on the line because I married from that area.

Mr Mabeta: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: So, I think, after answering this question, my matrimonial ratings will probably go even higher.

Madam Speaker, under the devolution support programme under the World Bank, indeed, US$200 million was put aside for the rehabilitation of rural roads. At the time we came into office, this facility was sitting in the ministry that I am privileged to run, but was moved to the sister ministry, which is the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and urban Development. So, if the hon. Member so wishes, it will be good to approach the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development to get the details of how far we have gone in terms of servicing the ninety-six rural councils that have qualified to be supported under this particular facility. I am very sure that Mbabala as well as Zambezi East are part of the ninety-six districts that have been earmarked for that support.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kambita indicated assent.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, when we have these burning issues, the best is to request the hon. Minister to go to the auditorium so we can clarify these issues as we heard previously, during the Vice-President’s Question Time. This is because on the Floor of the House, you would not have sufficient time to interrogate. So, if that is a burning issue, you can make a request through my office so that the hon. Minister can come and give a talk and you can interrogate all these issues on a one-to-one basis. That way it will be easier, and you will be able to cover some more ground.

The hon. Member for Mbabala has no more questions. Are you satisfied hon. Member?

Mr Munsanje: Yes.

Madam Speaker: Okay, in that case then, let us make progress.

The hon. Member for Kankoya is complaining. What is your question? Let us give him an opportunity.

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo):  Yes, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, first of all, allow me to thank His Excellency, President Hakainde Hichilema for finally unlocking the Konkola Copper Mine (KCM) where the judge has instituted back the board at KCM to now start running that company the way it should have been in 2019.

Madam Speaker, let me now come to my question. Most of the constituencies have bought a full set of the equipment and therefore, we do not need to duplicate the work. Is the ministry considering giving us money for fuel so that we can continue executing the works rather than finding contractors to come with the same equipment we have bought to work on the rural roads?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, the question the hon. Member of Parliament for Kankoyo brings before me is very important. To simplify it, one cannot buy a mobile phone and fail to buy airtime or credit to make it work. We were very intentional at the time when we requested the councils to procure earth-moving equipment so that they can be self-sustaining. Later, we actually mandated all local authorities to procure road repair equipment.

Madam Speaker, the same equipment capacity that many councils have responded to by buying, is the same equipment capacity that these private contractors use to repair the roads. So, I think that we scored a mark and were the first to make that decision. The issue of allocating money for fuel is the next stage. We could not procure equipment just for it to sit as decorations in the rural councils. It was intentional. As and when fiscal space is found among many competing challenges that this country is facing, I am very sure Hon. Mabeta will be good together. Further, I want to congratulate him particularly and his two colleagues from Mufulira District for standing as a shining example of those who have bought into the Government's aspirations to make sure that they are self-sustaining in terms of the road connectivity within their district. Congratulations!

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Let us make progress.

FOREIGN INVESTMENTS IN ZAMBIA'S MANUFACTURING SECTOR

404. Mr Chewe (Lubansenshi) asked the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry:

(a)        how many foreign companies invested in the manufacturing sector in Zambia, as of September, 2023;

(b)        in which provinces the companies were operating;

(c)        what products the companies were manufacturing;

(d)        whether there is any policy on giving incentives to foreign investors who invest in rural areas; 

(e)        if so, what the policy is; and

(f)         if there is none, why.

The Minister of Technology and Science (Mr Mutati) (on behalf of the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Chipoka Mulenga)): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that there are fifty-one companies that invested in the manufacturing sector as of September, 2023.

Madam Speaker, the companies were operating in Lusaka Province, the Northern Province, the Southern Province, the Western Province, Muchinga Province, the North-Western Province, Luapula Province, Central Province and Copperbelt Province.

Madam Speaker, the manufactured products by these companies included agro-processing, soya products, mineral processing of ferrous and non-ferrous metals, packaging materials, roofing sheets, beef processing, sugar, manganese, steel processing, wood products, books, beverages, footwear, processing of copper cathodes, jewelry, ornaments, construction material, ceramics, nappies, sanitation towels, diapers, vegetable oil, and many others.

Madam Speaker, yes, there is a policy that has been developed that provides incentives not only to foreign investors, but also to local investors in rural areas. The policy is called; the National Industrial Policy. In addition, a clear framework, which addresses the issues of incentives including for investors in rural areas, is founded in the Investment Trade and Business Development Act No. 18 of 2022.

Madam Speaker, part (f) of the question falls off as a result of the response given in part (e) above.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chewe:  Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the Acting hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry for the response.

Madam Speaker, looking at the responses the hon. Minister has provided, if indeed, the products are produced in rural areas such as Lubansenshi, Shangombo, Kalabo, and other rural constituencies, we would have uplifted the living conditions of the people in the rural areas in terms of the economic challenges that they are facing. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if he is honest with himself and the Government, if the companies in question do exist in rural areas and that the products mentioned are being manufactured in rural areas.

Mr Mutati:  Madam Speaker, manufacturing is a chain process. For example, if you take the expansion of Zambian Breweries Plc of US$90 million, the input for that expansion includes cassava and barley, some of which are being grown in Lubansenshi and it is supplied to Zambian Breweries. So, the ripple effect of investment basically begins from the bottom. In terms of quantifying the benefits, it starts from the growers who are feeding into the production, for example, of Zambian Breweries at the centre.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, from a very impressive list the hon. Minister has read out, I did not hear the garments manufacturing being mentioned. This is an area that we can exploit massively to create huge numbers of employment under the Africa Growth Opportunities Act (AGOA). As part of attracting foreign and local investors, may I find out from the hon. Minister if the Government has any plans to construct shell factories, which would be taken up by the foreign investors in order to create job opportunities for our people?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, that is a very important question regarding garments. The Government is at an advanced stage of revitalising Mulungushi Textiles. Part of the reason we are doing that is principally to be able to export into the Africa Growth Opportunities Act (AGOA). Then, backstream, obviously, all those factories that are producing cotton in various provinces are going to be beneficiaries of the reopening of Mulungushi Textiles.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kolala (Lufubu): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to ask a supplementary question.

Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether we are able to quantify the benefits in terms of how many people have been employed and the quality of jobs that they have been given.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, indeed, we are able to quantify. For example, in Luapula Province alone, the growers of cassava are over 1,000 and they have quality income arising from the selling of cassava to Zambian Breweries.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chewe: Madam Speaker, –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Chewe: Mr Speaker, thank you so much for permitting the people of Lubansenshi Constituency to ask a follow-up question. We appreciate that there is a national industrial policy that is anchored on seeing national development, especially in rural areas.

Mr Speaker, Zambia is going through difficulties in terms of electricity supply and that has become a challenge to support production. So, what message is the Acting hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, sending to the companies, which have good intentions of supporting productivity, especially in rural areas? What is it that they should do? At the moment, erratic electricity supply is one of the critical challenges the country is facing and most of these companies rely on electricity to remain floating in terms of production. 

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, the reality is that we have a significant deficit in power production, and the resolution to that process is not immediate. It will probably take us a year before we stabilise. So, the message to our people is that there is a schedule that is given in terms of power availability. So, they will have to align their production to match the schedule that is given for power availability. In the short term, that is the only answer that we have.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, most of these companies the hon. Minister has listed are registered in the urban setup. The ministry should have probably come up with a deliberate policy to ensure that other companies are allowed to register in the rural areas where we have seen that there are no economic benefits.

Mr Speaker, I want to find out whether the ministry is going to consider declaring areas like Lufwanyama and Shangombo as economic tax-free zones. This is to encourage companies to invest in rural areas and thereby, reducing the poverty levels once they start benefitting from companies that will invest in those areas.

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, in the last three years, a number of economic zones have been created, including the last one that has been created in the Kafue area. The principle is to encourage investment. One of the key things for the creation of the economic zones is that they are investor-driven. The investor places an application to create an economic zone for the purpose of receiving various incentives, including tax incentives. So, what I would encourage my hon. Colleague from Kabwata is to continue with his effort to try and identify investors and the Governments will be ready to provide the necessary incentives even in the rural areas.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Fube: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned many companies. Is the Government thinking of mainstreaming those listed companies into multi-facility economic zones? I ask this so that we can have co-ordinated trade and manufacturing that can add value to the raw products he mentioned such as cassava and many other products. Is the Government thinking of mainstreaming them into multi-facility economic zones available in the country? 

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, indeed, we have a number of economic zones including the Lusaka South Multi Facility Economic Zone where, for example, the Zambian Breweries Plc is using barley to produce beer. We also have one of the biggest companies that is producing tiles for exports in the region. Indeed, the answer is yes, we have one multi-facility economic zone in Lusaka, one in Chambeshi and one is being established in Kantanshi and there is potentially one to be established in Livingstone.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has outlined a number of companies that have invested in various districts in this country. Therefore, is there any value addition in terms of job creation? How many jobs have been created so far, through the investments that the hon. Minister has alluded to?

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, if you take the example of the cassava outgrowers who are delivering to Zambian Breweries, I had indicated that there are over 1,000, who are growing cassava only in Luapula Province. You can imagine how many more jobs those farmers have created. So, the answer is that the Government is creating jobs through the main off-takers.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central): Mr Speaker, I am excited just by the mention of Mulungushi Textiles by the hon. Minister. I am happy that at least, the New Dawn Government this time is serious about reopening Mulungushi Textiles.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned in his submission that Central Province has a number of manufacturing companies. However, in Kabwe, apart from Mulungushi Textiles, which is there at the moment, we do not have any other manufacturing company. We only have companies that are processing minerals. Kabwe has about 100 ha of land that is lying idly. Is the hon. Minister in a position to engage his counterpart from the Ministry of Defence so that other companies that would want to engage in manufacturing can come and set up manufacturing plants on that land?  I say so because acquiring land is difficult for any company that would want to invest in Kabwe.

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, the suggestion to engage the hon. Minister of Land and Natural Resources and the hon. Minister of Defence regarding the availability of land in Kabwe to be used as a platform to attract investment is welcome and the Government is going to pursue it.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that there are about fifty-one companies that have invested in various areas of our country. Therefore, what is the total investment cost that these companies invested in our economy?

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member is asking about the total investment cost, but I do not have a grand total. However, just to have an idea of the amounts invested by different companies: Zambian Breweries Plc invested US$90 million; United Packaging Industries, US$5.2 million; Neelkanth, US$14.5 million; 260 Brands, US$46.7 million; MMI Steel Ltd, US$56 million; Kafue Steels, US$70 million and the list goes on. Those are huge numbers that are being invested.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the spectacular record of fifty-one manufacturing companies that have come up in his ministry through investments.

Mr Speaker, would the hon. Minister share with this House and of course, the nation, what the Government is doing to protect our local people who also want to engage in the manufacturing sector? We have seen that the manufacturing sector seems to have been infested by foreigners, particularly the block-making industry, where most of our youths are supposed to venture. What is the Government doing to protect the local people who want to invest in the manufacturing sector such as the block-making industry?

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, one of the ways to protect our people is basically in the reverse, which is providing the opportunity, particularly to access funds. In this regard, the Government has provided a number of opportunities like the Citizens Economic Empowerment Fund, the Zambia Credit Guarantee Scheme and the Marketeer Booster Loans, which are exclusively for Zambians. There are many other opportunities for funding, which are given to Zambians including tax incentives.

Mr Speaker, my word to those who want to venture into the manufacturing industry is that capital and tax incentives are available. What is needed is a viable business plan, desire, purpose and courage to undertake the investment.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mapani (Namwala): Mr Speaker, looking at the issues regarding Mulungushi Textiles, which has been thorny for quite some years now, does the hon. Minister see it taking off before the end of this year or next year?

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, I do agree that Mulungushi Textiles has been a matter of contention over a number of years. I would like to assure the hon. Member of Parliament for Namwala that this time, practical and active measures have been taken. I do not want to steal the thunder from the substantive hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, who is going to issue a statement regarding the same.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

CONSTRUCTION OF STUDENT HOSTELS AT CHILUBI ISLAND COLLEGE OF NURSING AND MIDWIFERY IN CHILUBI DISTRICT

405. Mr Fube asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

1. when the Government will complete the construction of student hostels at Chilubi Island College of Nursing and Midwifery in Chilubi District;
2. why the project has stalled; and
3. what the cost of the outstanding works was, as of December, 2023.

Mr Nkombo (on behalf of the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi)): Mr Speaker, the construction of student hostels at Chilubi Island College of Nursing and Midwifery, in Chilubi District, will be completed when a new contractor is procured. 

Mr Speaker, the project has stalled as it encountered many delays due to the contractor’s poor performance and subsequent abandonment of the site and works. 

Mr Speaker, the cost of outstanding works as of December, 2023, will only be determined upon the preparations of the final account, which has since begun.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Fube: Mr Speaker, in answering the question, the hon. Minister said that the many challenges that were faced regarding the construction of hostels had to do with the contractor’s poor performance. Is he aware that the contractor abandoned the works when he was demanding for money to finish the remaining works, but he was harassed and locked up? There were issues about overpricing and so forth. As far as I am concerned, the contractor did not just abandon the work because of negligence or anything but harassment. 

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is unaware of the disclosure that the hon. Member of Parliament for Chilubi has shared with this House. So, because the hon. Minister is unaware, I will give a little bit of supplementary information that the substantive hon. Minister has. It is all related to the work culture of the contractor, which is now at variance with what the hon. Colleague has shared that the contractor was arrested when he was pushing for his payment. This is so unfortunate and very hard to believe, as a matter of fact. What is due to Caesar must be given to Caesar.

Mr Speaker, if the contractor presented his Interim Payment Certificate (IPC), and in return for his demand to get what was due to him, he was arrested, certainly he should have gone to the police to report that harassment, which the hon. Member of Parliament seems to be aware of and the hon. Minister is not. That is a normal thing to do.

Mr Speaker, there is also another channel and I have never heard it anywhere in the world where somebody seeking recourse or redress of his or her situation gets locked up instead. So, it is a little bit anomalous. I invite the hon. Member of Parliament to share more information about who arrested the contractor and what offence this person may have been charged with.

Mr Speaker, the only thing that I know, which I wish to share with this august House here, is that the Republic of Zambia engaged Mumash Contractors, I hope that is the name, to build student hostels at a cost of K6.3 million in 2019.

Mr Speaker, the second point I want to share, which is contrary to what the hon. Member alleged, is that the contractor failed to complete the work due to non-performance and later abandoned the project. There is a situation of abandonment of the project in January 2021.  So, contrary to the report my colleague has, what I have here is that the contractor physically left the site, which spells abandonment, and along the way, the contract expired. At the time of the expiry of the contract, the project was at 60 per cent and the contractor has since been paid a total of K5.3 million, K1 million short of the total contract sum. I will say this, again. The contract project was, as of the last time we checked, at 60 per cent, and the contractor that was assigned, Mumash Contractors, had been paid K5.3 million. That is K1 million short of the total contract price, even though he still had 40 per cent to finish. 

Mr Speaker, the process of procuring another contractor is going to commence as soon as funds are available. The primary aim here, hon. Colleague, is to serve the people of Chilubi more than the controversy that may sit between the contractor and those whom he claims arrested him for claiming his money, which is totally anomalous. To put a lid on the matter, let me say the contractor must come and share his experience at the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development to balance up this whole story.  Otherwise, it does not paint a good picture that anybody legitimately claiming money must be subjected to police harassment.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chala (Chipili): Mr Speaker, the contractor was paid that amount of money of K5.3 million when the project was only at 60 per cent. I cannot accept that. He was supposed to do more than 60 per cent. However, he claims that he was arrested.  What measure is the Government going to take on such contractors, who cannot perform after being paid? How will the Government recover the money? 

Mr Nkombo:  Mr Speaker, this is why, in my submission, I overemphasised the payment percentage against the performance percentage.  I said it twice, and because I am not a speculator, probably this is the reason the chickens came home to roost, regarding the story that is coming from my colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chilubi, about the police involvement and all such things. However, I could not confirm. To satisfy the hon. Member for Chipili, I will endeavour to get the detail in its raw form, which may have the connection or the nexus to why there is police involvement in the matter. Clearly, if the payment was K1 million less than the full amount and only 60 per cent of the work was done, that may be the reason the police are involved and why there is a matter of abandonment.  Anyone who abandons work after being paid so much money has a case to answer. 

Mr Speaker, I have no straightforward answer to give my hon. Colleague and friend, but I can only assure him that I am also very interested in finding out why, in a matter of a civil nature of a contract, police were attracted to arrest the contractor.

I thank you, Mr Speaker. 

Mr Fube: Mr Speaker, currently, Chilubi Island College of Nursing and Midwifery does not have the infrastructure it can count on. It is using the hospital as part of its administration. It is also using the resource centres for lectures.

Mr Speaker, having said that, the hon. Minister indicated that from the foregoing, the contract expired and they are yet to engage another contractor.  However, the students are in dire need of accommodation. There is confusion there, some students are living in grass-thatched houses. When is this process likely to begin? Is it going to begin on a new amount or will there be consideration of the K1 million balance?

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, at the cost of repeating myself, one of the questions that the hon. Member asked was the recommencement date for the completion of this project. My response was that it will be done, first, when funds are available. He also asked what the total cost of the balance of the work will be. My answer was; until such a time that the Bill of Quantity (BoQ) under our current circumstances is prepared will we know how much that 40 per cent comprises. So, that answer is really coming in different semantics. However, I thought I answered the question very clearly in the maiden answer that I gave to my friend, my colleague the hon. Member of Parliament for Chilubi.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Let us make progress, that question was constituency-based.

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER

IPU DELEGATE FROM IRAQ

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence in the Speaker’s Gallery of Mr Alexander Kravetz from Iraq. Mr Alexander has come under the Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU). On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our guest into our midst.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

_______

MOTION

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON NATIONAL ECONOMY, TRADE AND LABOUR MATTERS

Mr Mulaliki (Senanga Central): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House adopts the Report of the Committee on National Economy, Trade and Labour Matters on the ratification of the international agreement on the International Labour Organisation (ILO) Convention No. 190, Recommendation No. 206 and the Accompanying Resolution on Eliminating Violence and Harassment in the World of Work.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Kolala (Lufubu): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Mulaliki: Mr Speaker, in accordance with its terms of reference, as set out under Standing Orders No. 206 (J) and 207(f) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders 2024, your Committee considered the international agreement on the ILO Convention No. 190, Recommendation No. 206, and the Accompanying Resolution on Eliminating Violence and Harassment in the World of Work.

Mr Speaker, from the outset, let me state that your Committee is in support of the proposal to ratify the convention. This is because ratifying the ILO Convention No. 190, Recommendation No. 206, and the accompanying resolution will enhance worker protection and ensure workplace safety in Zambia. In adopting these international standards, Zambia will strengthen its legal framework to effectively combat violence and harassment in the workplace, and foster a safer, more inclusive, and respectful working environment. This will ultimately result in increased worker productivity, improved mental health, and overall socio-economic development, as employees feel more secure and valued in their workplaces.

Mr Speaker, as your Committee reviewed the convention, several important issues came to the Committee's attention. Based on the concerns raised, your Committee has made observations and recommendations, which are detailed in the report. I am certain that the hon. Members have read the report. Therefore, I will only highlight some of them.

Mr Speaker, one issue that caught your Committee's attention is the absence of availability of support services such as counseling, legal aid, and medical care for workers, particularly for those in rural and remote areas. As a result, victims often fear stigma, which discourages them from reporting harassment incidents.  In light of this, your Committee recommends that the Government should allocate adequate financial resources to labour departments and enforcement agencies like the Victim Support Unit (VSU). This funding will ensure effective implementation of support services for victims of violence and harassment.

Mr Speaker, another issue I want to comment on relates to the inadequacy of the current systems for collecting and analysing data on workplace violence and harassment. To address this issue, your Committee recommends that the Government strengthens monitoring and evaluation mechanisms by developing robust data collection systems. These systems will track incidents of violence and harassment as well as assess the effectiveness of the interventions. Furthermore, the Government should establish strong monitoring and enforcement mechanisms to ensure compliance with Convention No. 190 and Recommendation No. 206. This includes regular audits and inspections, as well as reviewing and updating of policies based on monitoring data and feedback.

Mr Speaker, lastly, the Government must allocate adequate funding towards activities related to monitoring and evaluation.

Mr Speaker, your Committee also observes, with great concern, the challenges in providing evidence for cases of violence and harassment, especially sexual harassment. There is a risk that individuals may face severe consequences based on unsubstantiated claims.

Mr Speaker, to address this concern, your Committee recommends that the Government should establish confidential and secure reporting channels to protect the identities of both the complainant and the accused, thereby encouraging the reporting of incidents while maintaining fairness. Furthermore, it is essential to implement strong whistle-blower protection policies to safeguard those who report harassment from retaliation.

Mr Speaker, allow me to conclude by stating that your Committee supports the ratification of the ILO Convention No. 190, Recommendation No. 206, and the Accompanying Resolution on Eliminating Violence and Harassment in the World of Work.

Mr Speaker, finally, I wish to pay tribute to the witnesses who interacted with your Committee for the valuable insights they provided. Gratitude also goes to you and the Clerk of the National Assembly for the guidance and support rendered to your Committee throughout its deliberations.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Kolala: Now, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, first and foremost, may I thank the mover the hon. Member for Senanga, Mr Mulaliki, for the manner in which he has moved the Motion.

Mr Speaker, indeed, your Committee sat and many issues came out. As I second the Motion, I just want to emphasise on the need to ratify this agreement. The mover has mentioned most of the points and other hon. Members who will come on the floor of the House to debate will also mention other issues.

Mr Speaker, you have seen that the Zambian Government has been so keen on fighting for the rights of the people. We have seen the fight against gender-based violence and child marriages. All these things require concerted efforts for us to achieve that which is required to be achieved. When you look at all these fights, you will discover that to some extent, because of financial issues, we fail to get to 100 per cent accomplishment. Hence, in ratifying this agreement, we will be able to help the Government under the Ministry of Labour and Social Security to go even higher because the international community will come on board to help financially and materially.

Mr Speaker, in the world of work, it has also been found that there is harassment and violence. For us to deal with these issues decisively in the world of work, many players are involved, such as foreign and local investors. To deal with harassment and violence effectively in the world of work, we also need the support of the international community. Hence, it is imperative that the ratification of this agreement is done, for Zambia to be able to attain its goal.

Mr Speaker, it is not right now to feel that we can fight harassment and violence on our own and be able to achieve our goal. Hence, the need for us to belong to an international organisation. The Government needs to sensitise the employers and employees on their responsibilities and rights. This is not a small job that can be done solely. Therefore, the people of Lufubu as they second this Motion, support the ratification of this agreement so that we can have help.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mrs Chonya (Kafue): Mr Speaker, the people of Kafue also rise to support your Committee’s recommendation that we ratify the International Labour Organisation (ILO) Convention No. 190 and Recommendation No. 206 and Accompanying Resolution on Eliminating Violence and Harassment in the World of Work.

Mr Speaker, this is a very progressive recommendation, which I am sure this House will support and that as a country, we will move ahead and ratify to promote decency in the workplace. Your Committee has done a good job in terms of outlining the benefits that would come with this ratification. A few that I noted are that once we domesticate this convention, it will help us prevent pervasive behaviour and practices in the workplace. It will also help to institute a culture of zero tolerance for harassment in the workplace, especially for vulnerable groups and women. People with disabilities are also cited as examples in this case.

Mr Speaker, the issue of sexual harassment has been highlighted as something that is difficult to predict or even report because of the difficulties in gathering evidence. Once we put in the necessary measures and policies, people will talk about these things and we will be moving a step towards addressing such vices. Women in the workplace should be treated with dignity and they should not be victims of sexual violence for them to attain higher levels in the workplace. Promotions should be based on merit because even women deserve better in that regard.

Mr Speaker, one other advantage your Committee has brought out is that this ratification would help create a good image of our country in terms of demonstrating our desire to adhere to these progressive principles at the place of work. Your Committee went ahead to identify the challenges that would be experienced once we undertake that ratification. It cited the challenge of the huge expense that would be involved and placed on the shoulders of the Government in terms of helping to develop the supporting policies and later on implementing them and monitoring what is expected under the convention. However, I like your Committee’s conclusion where it observed that the benefits that would arise from this ratification outweigh the disadvantages. This should not prevent us from ratifying such a progressive convention.

Mr Speaker, there is a lot that needs to be done. Just yesterday, coincidently, I was sharing notes with the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security on something that requires us to do much more for us to realise and actualise a decent work environment for our workers in Zambia, especially now that we want to attract more direct foreign investment. This should not come at the expense of our people being treated with dignity in the workplace. Today, there are still companies, for example, there is one in Kafue, which refuse to have their workers registered under a labour union, yet this is provided for under the laws of Zambia. What sanctions must we impose on such a company because that is utter disregard of our labour laws? I believe that sanctions should be exercised on such companies. We still have disparities in the levels of pay, yet there are general principles that talk about equal work, and equal pay for people who do the same job.

Mr Speaker, those are the few comments that I thought I should make in supporting the ratification through the report that has been well done by your Committee.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, I also want to add a voice on the resolution that was passed and also on the recommendation. The recommendation is made to eliminate violence and harassment in the place of work although it is called the world of work.  That is on international agreement on the International Labour Organisation (ILO) Convention No. 190, and Recommendation No. 206.

Mr Speaker, the report of your Committee has salient provisions and I will try to premise my debate on those. Above all, Article 1, Article 4, Article 7, …

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

May the Whips start watching the numbers of the hon. Members in the House. I have noticed that the number is reducing.

May the hon. Member continue.

Mr Fube: … and Article 8 among other things defines what violence is. The Articles talk about the development of laws that are supposed to be in place and how violence is to be prevented. This brings me to a tripartite arrangement for the Government’s employers and worker organization, which is key. The cited salient provisions cannot work if the tripartite relationship is not upheld properly. The tripartite relationship speaks to laws that are supposed to be put in place. These laws do not only include the worker’s compensation fund. The Government must also take into consideration the definition of violence in Article 1, which among other things include; physical, sexual and psychological violence.

Mr Speaker, the Employment Code Act No. 3 of 2019, which has about seventy-nine pages does not tackle properly the issue of violence and harassment in places of work. I would like to classify the two classes of work that I have in mind; the white-collar jobs and blue-collar jobs. We do not seem to have a serious problem with the work environments where we have the white-collar jobs, but we have a serious problem with the work environment where people access blue-collar jobs. I say so because there is an economic attachment and vulnerability to blue-collar jobs. Mainly people who seek blue-collar jobs are unskilled and, in some way, they have to seek these jobs at whatever risk and whatever it will take.  Given that scenario, these workers can take in and tolerate whatever may go on in that workplace.

Mr Speaker, I have visited a number of workplaces where female workers are searched in pants as they enter and leave the workplaces. I hope, this is not unparliamentarily. These women are searched in case they pilfered something. It is common place that these things are happening.

Mr Speaker, we also know that female workers in most workplaces are surviving as sexual objects. That is sexual violence because these female workers try to balance up between an economic need that is linked to survival and giving away sex, which in most cases is done unwillingly. That action is equivalent to rape and can be equated to issues that pertain to violence.

Mr Speaker, I will not do my debate a service, if I do not address the recommendations that were brought out in the report. The report attaches more importance to curative measures as opposed to preventive measures. It talks about how to deal with victims when they have already been victimised. It should rather talk about ways of how to create an environment where violence defined in Article 1 is tackled with preventive measures, as opposed to waiting for an act of violence to happen that is when we want the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security to prepare an environment for counselling. That would be too late because when an act of violence happens, victims need to be taken to hospitals and other places to seek help. We know that psychological violence can also lead to depression and people die of depression. Further, sexual violence can lead to victims contracting diseases and many other issues and people die out of that. It would be too late to concentrate on curative measures as opposed to preventive measures.

Mr Speaker, how do we then move forward? The House cannot be talking about ratifying the ILO Convention if our local environment has not been attended to. Our local environment needs to have supportive policies and legislative frameworks to address the issue of violence and not only put up posters that read, “No sexual harassment in places of work.” The Government should rather actualise these factors.

Mr Speaker, by and large, we will be doing ourselves a great service if among other things that we take on board is the operationalisation of the gender-equity commission. This commission should play a supportive role in the elimination of violence in places of work. Females, who are considered to be a weaker sex, are usually the victims of violent acts, especially sexual and psychological violence. Given that scenario, we need to see to it that, should we reach a station where the issue of eliminating violence in places of work has to be ratified, which the Government intends to do, the House also needs to prepare a policy environment, which will receive legislative support. Of course, Parliament has to get involved in a way according to the Constitution of Zambia. That way, we will be able to defeat violence at places of work with a preventive approach as opposed to a curative approach.

Mr Speaker, as I support the recommendations in the report, I would like to end by stating that it will be an exercise in futility if we do not embark on robust awareness around violence as stipulated in Article 1 of the salient provisions of the convention.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Nyambose (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, thank you for according the people of Chasefu Constituency an opportunity to add a word to the debate on the International Labour Organisation (ILO) Convention No. 190, which seeks to end violence in the world of work. I will buttress what my hon. Colleagues indicated already by giving salient points that this convention aims to eliminate violence and harassment in workplaces.

Mr Speaker, Convention No. 190 provides a comprehensive framework to address violence and harassment in the world of work by ensuring that there is a safer and healthier work environment for all employees. It also goes on to address the issue of promotion of gender. The convention emphasises the protection of women and vulnerable groups who are disproportionately affected by workplace violence and harassment thereby promoting gender equality and inclusivity. It also brings about economic benefits. Once the convention is ratified, it will bring about safer workplaces, which lead to increased productivity, reduced absenteeism and lowers ten-over rate.

Mr Speaker, once the work environment is conducive, it improves productivity and reduces absenteeism. It is common knowledge and it is happening in all environments where issues of harassment especially of women are not reported. This issue affects productivity in the sense that some people fear to report for work due to fear of being victimised.

Mr Speaker, this convention brings about decent work, which is under one of the conventions that I will read. This convention supports the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs). Once ratified it will support several SDGs, particularly Goal No. 5, which talks about gender equality. Goal No. 8 talks about decent work and economic growth, which is the one I just emphasised on. We, therefore, need to support this convention, so that we have a decent work environment, where everybody is able to work and improve productivity.

Mr Speaker, it is common knowledge that this is not only happening in formal employment but everywhere even in village communities. People who may want to access certain benefits become vulnerable. Let me give a practical situation: When there is less opportunity, it breeds certain vices, with people opting to receive favours, and that is where we see a lot of harassment towards women.

Mr Speaker, the coming of the New Dawn Administration in power has brought about more employment opportunities. It has decentralised the opportunities in all places. This has practically reduced the vulnerability of women when accessing these jobs. Prior to that, for one to get favour, even when one was qualified, one had to expose oneself. The current environment has brought about sanity. There is now a reduction in vulnerability, because people, even those in Chasefu, can now get favours or jobs without paying anyone. So, what do we do? Your Committee has made recommendations that we should invest money in enforcing labour officers, who enforce these rules.

Mr Speaker, we have had so many conventions, for example, the Convention on the Elimination of the Worst Forms of Child Labour. Child labour is still taking place, yet we ratified that convention as a country. It is not about putting money in the labour officers. It is about changing our mindsets as Zambians, by respecting every person in the place of work. When my wife reports for work, I must have a free mind that she will not be harassed. The convention on the elimination of violence and harassment in workplaces shifts the burden from the victim to the abuser. The abuser will now be able to prove that; indeed, he never harassed a particular person. We, therefore, need to support this convention.

Mr Speaker, I support your Committee's statement that this is a good convention and that we need to ratify it as a country. Moreover, I was just reading about the SDGs. We are in a global environment, and we must move with everyone. So, the benefit of this convention is something that everyone has to support.

Mr Speaker, we must be practical. The report of the Committee has also talked about our traditions and culture. How much are we doing as a country to ensure that we start talking to our traditional leaders or changing our traditions so that we start respecting females, as young as they may be so that they are not harassed? The harassment is not only in formal employment; it is happening, everywhere, even in the villages. However, what are we doing about it? We, the leaders in this House, should talk to one another on how much we are doing as Members of Parliament or as the Government. We need to engage so that we can progress and start respecting one another in order to reduce harassment, thereby improving productivity at places of work. When there is peace at a place of work, everyone is free to move and to put in their best, without absconding or fearing to be harassed. Then the country’s productivity will improve. With these remarks, I beg to sit.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Mr Speaker, thank you so much for this opportunity to add my voice to this very important report. Without sounding repetitive, allow me to adopt some of the submissions made by colleagues who debated before me. To add on, we need to look at legislation addressing workplace violence and harassment, as well as speak to the implementation of such legislation. We continue to register, and to also get reports of high levels of gender-based violence, both in the formal and informal sectors. The situation has even worsened when we talk about our colleagues in the informal sector and the domestic workers.

 Mr Speaker, the legislation we wish to speak to is legislation, which addresses workplace harassment and violence, not just for the formal sector, but the informal sector as well. Verbal and psychological abuse is a very serious occurrence in our society, especially that ours is a patriarchal society and sometimes it is very fashionable for my gender to look down on the opposite gender. We must do everything it takes to protect the status of women in the workplace both in the formal and informal sectors, including in this House.

Mr Speaker, the informal sector as alluded to, has its own very unique vulnerabilities and I think, colleagues who debated before me alluded to that. The challenge is that it lacks access to certain protections and also redress mechanisms. Therefore, the need for us to look at this sort of legislation becomes unavoidable. We need to develop and implement a zero-tolerance policy around workplace violence and harassment, and we need to ensure that this is a sustained and multi-faceted approach.

Mr Speaker, in adding to the debate further, allow me to say that this particular august House has a very unique role to play in ensuring that we monitor the Governments’ actions and hold it accountable in implementing anti-violence measures in the workplace, both in the formal and informal sectors. We have a role to play as Members of Parliament and this Assembly, to ensure that we amplify the voices of survivors, workers and advocates so that their concerns are heard. We have a role as an august House, to ensure that we investigate incidents and identify systemic issues and recommend solutions. This Assembly can play a particular role, and it would be important that we play a very proactive role as an Assembly of the people.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, allow me to reiterate that there is a need for us to cultivate a culture of zero tolerance for violence, and harassment in the world of work, both in the formal and the informal sectors. With those few remarks, I wish to support this report.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Mr Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to say a few words or remarks to the debate on this very important report.  I also want to thank the mover and the seconder of this very important report.

Mr Speaker, coming from the working class and the trade union movement, I feel that this report has come at a better time. I am alive to the fact that the Industrial and Labour Relations Act and the Employment Acts have undergone radical changes since the advent of plural politics in this country. These radical changes have been made to the detriment of the Zambian workers. So, when conventions such as the International Labour Organisation (ILO) Convention are brought forward, I am confident that they would be able to cure some of the shortcomings that have come up as a result of certain laws, which have been amended and have advantaged the employers.

Mr Speaker, this country has ratified so many conventions. I think, it is important that we critically scrutinise these conventions. This is because some of these conventions may look very good on paper, but they have far-reaching consequences, especially on the rights of the workers. I will give an example of the ILO Convention No. 87. I think, it was under the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD) Government when this country ratified the ILO Convention No. 87, which gives freedom of association. However, the freedom of association has brought its own shortcomings. It has weakened the strength of the labour movement in Zambia.

Mr Speaker, when we talk about ratifying the ILO Convention No. 190, and its Recommendations No. 206 on eliminating violence and harassment, I think, the starting point should be with trade unions. This is because trade unions operate in workplaces. So, if we have weak trade unions, then it would be extremely difficult even for the Government to protect the rights of the workers. I, therefore, think that as a starting point, we must ensure that these trade unions are strengthened so that they are able to represent their workers effectively and also monitor the violations of the rights of the employees in workplaces.

Mr Speaker, the labour force is the most precious factor of production, but at the same time, it can also be an endangered species, as it is a vulnerable group. The report talks about the protection of vulnerable groups in terms of political activities, and so on and so forth. We have seen that workers are victimised on political grounds. This should not be the case because the Zambian Constitution allows workers to take part in political activities without any form of intimidation.

Mr Speaker, this particular Convention is very progressive. Of late, we have seen how a lot of lives have been lost, especially the lives of the workers who work in hazardous environments such as the mines. So, I hope that with the ratification of the ILO Convention No. 190, the lives of the employees will be safeguarded by ensuring that the working environments are safe. In addition, employers who do not adhere to these provisions must be held accountable. I, therefore, think that there should be severe penalties to deter such kind of happenings in workplaces.

Mr Speaker, I also noticed that your Committee observed that there has been lack of awareness among employers and employees about their rights and obligations under the ILO Convention No. 190. Your Committee has gone further to say that there has been insufficient training and education on the prevention of harassment of employees in these workplaces. I totally agree with these observations. Most of the people lack education on the prevention of harassment and violence in workplaces. That is why the Ministry of Labour and Social Security must come up with a deliberate policy on how it is going to work together with the workers’ representative and employers’ representative as a tripartite arrangement so that workers and employers get the important training. The hon. Minister must also lobby the Government to allocate resources for such training. I know that trade unions receive membership contributions. However, I think, these contributions are not enough to run the trade unions, and also to conduct this training. So, the Government must do something in this area. Additionally, we need an increased budgetary allocation for the Ministry of Labour and Social Security if at all what the Committee has proposed would be put into reality.

Mr Speaker, training is very critical. I am actually one of the beneficiaries of the Japanese International Labour Foundation (JILAF). This is where the Japanese Government allocates resources to labour centres where trade union leaders from developing countries are trained of which I am one of the beneficiaries. So, I feel that even here in Zambia, the Government can also allocate resources through the Ministry of Labour and Social Security to help train the trade union leaders and members. In that way, workers will be able to understand their rights and collective agreements. This would also eliminate some of the unnecessary wild-cat strikes that come about as a result of the ignorance of workers about what they are supposed to do.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I fully support the ratification of the ILO Convention No. 190, which is very progressive.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

The Minister of Labour and Social Security (Ms Tambatamba): Mr Speaker, first and foremost, I would like to thank your Committee, for its submissions starting from the mover of the Motion, who has delivered it with clarity and the seconder as well. I would also like to thank the hon. Members who have debated the Motion; Hon. Chonya for Kafue Constituency, Hon. Fube for Chilubi Constituency, Hon. Nyambose for Chasefu Constituency, Hon. Chanda for Kanchibiya Constituency and Hon. Mtayachalo for Chama North Constituency.

Mr Speaker, many salient points have been brought out in the debates of various hon. Members, starting from the importance of tripartism, to the importance of a preventive approach in dealing with matters of violence at work, and issues of work awareness.

Mr Speaker, the International Labour Conference held from 10^th June, 2019 to 21^st June, 2019 in Geneva, Switzerland, adopted Convention No. 190 and its Recommendation No. 206 for a world of work free from violence and harassment. Violence and harassment in workplaces were recognised as one of the major constraints to self-actualisation as it takes away self-esteem; the ability of individuals to operate at their full capacity. These are productivity issues.

Mr Speaker, according to the International Labour Organisation (ILO), violence and harassment at work have become endemic warranting collective action. To reverse the trend, ILO reports that globally, more than one in five persons in employment have experienced violence and harassment at work during their working life. For instance, in 2021 across the world, 22.8 per cent of 743 million persons in employment had experienced violence and harassment at work whether physical, psychological or sexual over the way during their working lives. Women are more likely to have experienced violence and harassment than men in their work life. The statistics in Africa stand at 25.7 per cent of all persons in employment who would have experienced harassment.

Mr Speaker, Zambia recognises the rights of everyone to a work environment free from violence and harassment.  Violence and harassment at work are recognised as a form of human rights violation and abuse. According to a survey conducted by the Zambia Congress of Trade Union (ZCTU) in collaboration with the Fredrich Ebert Stiftung (FES) in 2021, 10 per cent of the workers reported to have experienced physical violence at work. Psychological violence stood at 20 per cent while sexual harassment of women, a matter that was spoken about by one of the debaters, Madam Chonya was at 35 per cent. The healthcare and public sectors showed higher rates with 30 per cent of workers experiencing some form of violence.

 Mr Speaker, the country experienced a spike in this phenomenon during the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) period as reported in the rapid gender assessment carried out by the ZCTU in 2020, underscoring the need for the country to intensify efforts aimed at curbing the vice. Convention No. 190 is one initiative, which is very critical and that can regalvanise effective responses towards reducing or indeed, ending violence and harassment at workplaces. Further, the study found out that lack of comprehensive legislation and societal norms contributed to underreporting and inadequate responses to incidents of violence at the workplace.

  Mr Speaker, the convention aims to protect all workers irrespective of their contractual status as well as individuals exercising the authority or responsibilities of an employer. In addition, the convention provides a framework for the protection of workers’ rights and other persons regardless of their contractual status who include; interns, apprentices volunteers, job seekers and job applicants. Further, the convention applies to both the formal and informal sectors as was indicated by one of the debaters.

 Mr Speaker, to respond to the concerns raised on ratifying Convention No. 190, Section 95 of the Employment Code Act, the Act already provides for the requirement for all employers in urban and rural companies. This is to develop among others the workplace sexual harassment policies and these have been reflected on page 5 of the report.

 Mr Speaker, sexual harassment is a criminal offence in nature. It is criminalised, even here, in Zambia and it is provided for in our laws such as the Anti-Gender Based Violence Act. The standard to establish criminality is very high as one has to prove beyond reasonable doubt the sexual misconduct. The implementation of the Convention No. 190 will be done with minimum required resources because most of the laws are already in place such as the Anti-Gender Based Violence Act, the Gender Equity and Equality Act and the Employment Code Act itself.

Mr Speaker, some of the offences derived in the Convention No. 190 are already being implemented and are sitting in our laws. The ministry is currently reviewing its structure to ensure an effective response to the current needs of the labour market, including this particular topic.

Mr Speaker, ratification of the Convention No. 190 has potential benefits to the country as it will enhance the international profile of the Zambian labour market. This means it will be consistent with international labour standards, improving the business environment for foreign direct investment.

Mr Speaker, further, its ratification will also not conflict with the legal provisions of gender relations already in place but will strengthen their enforcement. The Government shall ensure that it collaborates with other stakeholders to enhance sensitisation and education, which has been pointed out through the tripartite platform, and firmly deal with the perpetrators of the sexual harassment practice at places of work.

Mr Speaker, I, therefore, urge this august House to approve the ratification of the ILO Convention No. 190 with its Recommendation No. 206 and, indeed, the resolution.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mulaliki: Mr Speaker, let me start by thanking the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security and the seconder of this Motion, Hon. Kolala, Member of Parliament for Lufubu. Let me also thank the hon. Member for Kafue, the hon. Member for Chilubi, the hon. Member for Chasefu, the hon. Member for Kanchibiya and the hon. Member for Chama North for supporting your Committee’s report.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Question put and agreed to. 

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

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The House adjourned at 1228 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 30^th July, 2024.

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