Friday, 5^thJuly, 2024

The House met at 0900 hours

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

–––––––

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER

DELEGATION FROM THE PARLIAMENT OF UGANDA

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to acquaint the House with the presence in the Speaker’s Gallery of the following hon. Members of the Shadow Cabinet and staff from the Parliament of Uganda:

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: These are:

         Hon. Joel Ssenyonyi, MP                   -          Leader of the Opposition

         Hon. Joan Alobo, MP                         -          Member

         Hon.MuwadaNkunyinji, MP               -           Member

         Hon. Susan Mugabi, MP                   -           Member

         Hon. Francis Zaake, MP                   -           Member

         Hon. Nokin P. P. Ojara, MP               -           Member

         Ms Jackline Ahimbisibwe                  -          Staff

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I wish to receive our distinguished guests and warmly welcome them into our midst.

Thank you.

_______

BUSINESS STATEMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the House Business Committee met on Thursday, 4^thJuly, 2024, to determine and schedule the Business of the House for the period 9^th to 19^th July, 2024. Accordingly, the Committee resolved to lay before the House the following business for consideration:

Announcements

The Hon. Speaker may make announcements to the House on any day when it is necessary to do so.

Rulings

The Hon. Madam Speaker may render rulings, if there will be any.

Ministerial Statements

Hon. Ministers may render ministerial statements, if there will be any.

Supplementary Estimates

The House will consider the Supplementary Estimates No. 1 of 2024 during the period.

Bills

The Bills listed hereunder will be considered:

The Lands Tribunal (Amendment)Bill No. 6 of 2024. This will be at Second Reading stage and the date for consideration is 10^thJuly, 2024;

The Zambia Institute of Advanced Legal Education (Amendment) Bill No. 4 of 2024. This will be at Second Reading stage and the date for consideration is yet to be determined;

The Zambia Qualifications Authority Bill No. 7 of 2024. This will be at Second Reading stage and the date for consideration is yet to be determined;

The Human Rights Commission Bill No. 8 of 2024. This will be at Second Reading stage and the date for consideration is yet to be determined; and

The Matrimonial Causes (Amendment) Bill No. 5 of 2024. This will be at Committee stage and the date for consideration is 9^th July, 2024.

Parliamentary Committee Reports

The following Committee reports will be considered during the period:

Report of the Committee on Energy, Water Development and Tourism on the Implementation of Monthly Fuel Price Reviews. This will be considered on 9^th July, 2024;

Report of the Committee on Agriculture, Lands and Natural Resources on Carbon Markets and Trading in Zambia - Opportunities and Challenges. This will be considered on a date yet to be determined;

Report of the Committee on Government Assurances. This will be considered on a date yet to be determined; and

Report of the Committee on Cabinet Affairs on the Review of Operations and Management of SMART Zambia Institute. This will be considered on a date yet to be determined.

Madam Speaker, more reports are expected to be availed in due course.

Reports on International Conferences

The reports on international conferences will be rendered, if there will be any.

Questions for Oral Answer

Hon. Ministers will respond to sixteen Questions for Oral Answer as set out hereunder during the period. The details of the questions are contained in the Notice of Questions circulated to all hon. Members and other stakeholders.

Questions on Standby

Questions on Standby to replace questions that may not be placed on the Order Paper on the designated day for one reason or another are stated hereunder:

Question No.               Ministry

 401                             Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development                              

402                              Education

403                              Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development                                              

376                              Local Government and Rural Development

392                              Local Government and Rural Development

394                              Health

395                              Justice

396                              Agriculture

394                              Health

397                              Education

399                              Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Madam Speaker, on behalf of the House Business Committee, and in accordance with Standing Order No. 44 of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024, I have the pleasure to present the business for the next two weeks to this august House.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

______

URGENT MATTERS WITHOUT NOTICE

MR B. MPUNDU, HON. MEMBER FOR NKANA, ON HER HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT, MRS NALUMANGO, ON THE ABDUCTION OF MR J. E. BANDA, HON. MEMBER FOR PETAUKE CENTRAL

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to raise an Urgent Matter without Notice, which is directed at Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, the Presidency is a very important institution that should never be allowed to be surrounded by criminals.

Ms Mulenga: Hear, hear!

Mr B. Mpundu: As such, if there is a criminal element within the Presidency, the Government has the duty to chuck it out. I will tender evidence before you, which evidence shows that there are criminals who were behind the abduction of our hon. Colleague, Mr J. E. Banda, serving the Presidency.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, in a very clear recording, two Permanent Secretaries (PSs) from the Ministry of Information and Media or the “Office of the Filer” and the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security were having a conversation with our hon. Colleague, Mr J. E. Banda. In that conversation, they were trying to buy the exoneration of the individuals who are serving in the Presidency. It has become very clear that those individuals were involved in the abduction of our hon. Colleague, Mr J. E. Banda.

Madam Speaker, is Her Honour the Vice-President correct to sit very quietly and allow the President’s name to be dragged through the mud by some individuals? Ordinarily, they should be fired instantly for being involved in such an illegality involving one of us.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Your time is up, hon. Member.

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence as to why Her Honour the Vice-President should not come to this House to tell the nation why those named individuals, those criminals who are serving in the Presidency, have not been prosecuted up to now.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Your time is up, hon. Member. You may resume your seat.

Mr B. Mpundu: I seek your indulgence, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Nkana, I believe that that matter is before the courts or under police investigation.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

According to the Standing Orders, matters are supposed to be raised within twenty-four hours after they have occurred. The matter that the hon. Member has brought before the House happened one or two months ago. Therefore, he should find another way to bring it before the House. It does not qualify to be raised as an urgent matter without notice.

MS SEFULO, HON. MEMBER FOR MWANDI, ON MR MTOLO, HON. MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, ON ACCESS TO MAIZE FROM THE FOOD RESERVE AGENCY

IN MWANDI

Ms Sefulo (Mwandi): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to raise an urgent matter without notice. I should mention that since I came to the House, this is the first time I am raising an urgent matter without notice, and it is directed at the hon. Minister of Agriculture.

Madam Speaker, Mwandi, like many other constituencies, was hit by the drought. Therefore, there is severe hunger in the constituency. The Government, through the Food Reserve Agency (FRA), took relief maize to the constituency. That maize is currently in the sheds and people are failing to buy it. People are starving as I speak because the procedure to buy the maize is long. When a person wants to buy the relief maize, he or she has to get a recommendation letter from the Office of the District Commission (DC), which is situated more than 100 km from where the people are. After a person has got the letter, he or she has to go to Sesheke to deposit the money because there is no bank in Mwandi. After depositing the money, he or she has to go back to Mwandi from Sesheke, which is 100 km away. So, the maize is still in the sheds and the people are starving because of the procedure to buy it. 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Agriculture should issue a directive immediately so that people can access the maize. People are starving whilst the maize is in sheds in Mwandi. Even the order number is not yet out in Mwandi.

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious indulgence on the matter.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I advise the hon. Member for Mwandi to file an urgent question, which can be dealt with probably on Monday or Tuesday. In the meantime, please, engage the hon. Minister of Agriculture so that something can be done. File an urgent question. 

_______

THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu): Madam Speaker, as I pose my question to Her Honour the Vice-President, my heart is bleeding and my soul is devastated.

Madam Speaker, immediately after the 2021 General Election, the Patriotic Front (PF) won elections in sixty constituencies out of 156, and fifty-nine were petitioned by the United Party for National Development (UPND). More than a thousand local government seats were won by PF councillors, and out of that number, 300 were petitioned by the UPND. About forty-five mayoral seats and council chairperson seats were equally petitioned by the UPND. Out of –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

This is guidance to all the hon. Members. Please, summarise your questions so that I give chance to as many hon. Members as possible to ask questions.

Hon. Member, you may continue. Summarise your question. 

Mr Kasandwe: Madam Speaker, 98 per cent of the local government by-elections were induced by the UPND by giving Councillors jobs. The UPND is on the quest to be the only party in the House and in the local authorities.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Kasandwe: Madam Speaker, I would like to ask Her Honour the Vice-President to search her soul and examine her conscience as she answers my question.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, what is your question?

Mr Kasandwe: Madam Speaker, may I first be protected before I ask the substantive question.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, you are protected. Please, what is your question?

Mr Kasandwe: Madam Speaker, kindly ask the other hon. Members to keep quiet. Then I will proceed to ask the question.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, if you do not want to proceed under my guidance, I have no option but to ask you to resume your seat.

Mr Kasandwe: Madam Speaker, given the background I have outlined, the UPND has a record of killing democracy. It wants to remain alone in local government and in Parliament.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Kasandwe: Madam Speaker, I would to find out if Her Honour the Vice-President is proud of that record. She should search her soul and examine her conscience.

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for his question. In searching my heart, I sympathise with his heartbrokenness. Indeed, what happened to his soul –

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I cannot remember the words he used.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member has given a history of what has happened since 2021. He talked about petitions. Let him believe that history is written just like he has done. Electoral petitions are part of democracy and so he should not see them as abnormalities. In a democracy, people have the right to petition an election when they feel that something went wrong. The United Party for National Development (UPND) has petitioned elections before. The Patriotic Front (PF) party petitioned plenty of elections under the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, almost everybody who wonthe elections in 2011when the MMD was in Government petitioned them. Nobody cried foul, because we agreed that it was part of democracy. I think that the hon. Member has given the history of petitions. My short answer is that petitions are part of democracy. Remember that chiwamila galu kuluma mbuzi.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, do not debate while seated.

The Vice-President: I am talking to the hon. Member –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Kalulushi, please, minimise the running commentaries. You are too loud.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I am talking to the hon. Member for Kalulushi. Please, minimise your commentaries. You are too loud.

Her Honour the Vice-President may continue.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I am speaking to my hon. Colleague here, who requested me to do soul searching. Yes, at times, we should be straightforward. If something is bad, it should not have been allowed in the past. However, this is the kind of democracy we have. If a loser of an election thinks that something was unfair and unlawful, he or she should petition the election. We cannot make a rule against petitions. If we do not want petitions any more, let us put that in the law. The hon. Member said that the UPND Government induced by-elections by employing PF Councillors so that they could be replaced. That is the most unfair statement out of what he said, because the Government does not want by-elections. That is a fact. The hon. Member should give evidence that somebody was given a job and in exchange, he or she needed to lose his seat. When jobs are advertised, people apply for those jobs. His own people applied for jobs. If we had a way, no one from the PF would get a job. However, what can we do? Maybe, we should make a rule that no Councillor should apply and get a job until his or her term is over. Currently, that condition is not there. Therefore, both UPND and PF Councillors who apply for jobs and qualify are given jobs. If the PF Councillors had not been given jobs, my hon. Colleagues here would have said that the UPND Government is discriminating against members of the PF. What is the problem? That situation is for the PF to handle. We will do the right thing all the time. If there is something wrong with the current setup, let the PF itself find a way to resolve it. I do not want to go too far, but let me tell the PF members to find a solution to keep their party strong. Their party has nothing to do with us. Councillors have the right to resign when they find jobs, whether they are PF, UPND or even Independents. We are not enjoying the results of that, but that is the law. We are not looking to eliminate anybody. Let us work together. I can say many things about the PF, but I will end here.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sialubalo (Sinazongwe): Madam Speaker, firstly, on behalf of the people of Sinazongwe, allow me to thank the New Dawn Administration for having engaged commercial farmers to grow winter maize. I have seen the maize harvest. Indeed, the New Dawn Government is fighting hunger that has come due to the drought that we experienced in the 2023/2024 Farming Season.

Madam Speaker, I would like to find out if the Government has engaged commercial farmers to grow maize or millet. The people of Sinazongwe are very eager and anxious to participate in the 2024/2025 Farming Season. Can Her Honour the Vice-President assure them that there will be no shortage of maize or millet in the next farming season?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Sinazongwe for that very important question, because it concerns our agricultural sector and the livelihood of the Zambian people.

Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for commending the Government for engaging commercial farmers to grow winter maize. We are experiencing the effects of the drought, so each one of us here is called upon to grow food according to their capacity. Even if one grows maize on 1 ha, it will go a long way because one cannot consume everything from that hectare alone. Part of the harvest can be sold to other individuals, and they will survive. That is what we need to do.

Madam Speaker, the Government is aware of what is happening with the millet and maize seeds. Therefore, it has engaged commercial farmers and others to grow seeds. I am told that Seed Co Zambia is growing seed in Chiawa on about 400 ha. That is what the Government is doing. So, the hon. Member should be comforted that we will continue to ask other people to get involved to resolve the problem.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Charles Mulenga (Kwacha): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to ask a question, and good morning to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, recently in Kitwe, an organisation called the United Kwacha Alliance (UKA) had a rally. A pronouncement was made by one of the key speakers, to the effect that in an unlikely event that the alliance took power, it would employ about 2 million civil servants. I would like to find out if that is feasible. I would also like to find out the current establishment of the Civil Service.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kwacha for that question on the organisation called the United Kwacha Alliance (UKA), which had a rally in Kitwe. That is a very good thing. We encourage people to gather and share ideas among themselves and with the Zambian people because that is part of democracy. I like the confirmation that a rally was held. Rallies should be held, as long as they are within the law. We have the freedom to gather as long as the gatherings are peaceful and all the prerequisites are met. That is wonderful.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member is concerned about one of the pronouncements made at the rally. He said that “in an unlikely event,” but I do not know whether that statement was made by the alliance or the hon. Member. Anyway, we can agree that in the unlikely event that the alliance took power, it would employ 3 million or 2 million people.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Oh, is it the Zambia National Service (ZNS)?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you talked about civil servants, not the Zambia National Service (ZNS). Not so?

Mr Charles Mulenga: I said civil servants.

The Vice-President: How long would it take to employ 2 million people in the Civil Service or the Public Service? Maybe, it could take twenty years to employ that number. The hon. Member did not state whether a timeframe was given or not. Many of the people who were at that rally have been in the Government before. They promised to create jobs but they never did. Is that number tenable? I think that the student of the law, the hon. Member for Nkana, will probably say that those are trade puffs. He declared himself a student of the law.

Mr B. Mpundu interjected.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, those are called trade puffs. There is nothing we can do about that. We cannot even sue because that was an imagination. So, it depends on who will accept it. We cannot even hold them accountable because what they said is an impossibility. They failed to create jobs when they were in the Government. How many teachers did they employ? Let them tell us. Everybody should be good at keeping records. I think that we should allow them to come and tell us how many police officers they employed, how many people they employed in the ZNS, and how many teachers and nurses they employed in the Civil Service or Public Service; it is the same. Do not listen to trade puffs.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simumba: Qualite!

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Madam Speaker, the Government is struggling with the fiscal space. It is failing to undertake capital projects, and there are no medicines in hospitals.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Kapyanga: We also have load-shedding and depend on imported power. Prices of fuel are high and our people are suffering. However, the Government has proceeded to create nine by-elections, which will cost K200 million. That K200 million could be used to import electricity and reduce load-shedding.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is your question, hon. Member?

Mr Kapyanga: My question to Her Honour the Vice-President is: Is politics her priority over the Zambian people?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Mpika for that very important question, because it gives me an opportunity to explain the situation. Please, let us not expose ourselves. The hon. Member has exposed the PF. How can he ask me about the fiscal space today? Maybe, I do not understand what fiscal space is. I am sure that the hon. Minister here (Pointing at Hon. Mtolo) can help me. Did he not know that there was no fiscal space just three years ago? The hon. Member should not ask me that type of question.

Madam Speaker, yes, I stand here as the Vice-President, but I also have a persona. Therefore, standing here and telling untruths will not help me. Yes, weare struggling with the fiscal space, as stated by the hon. Member who belongs to a former ruling party, but the by-elections are not our creation. That is the point.

Hon. Minister, did you find the fiscal space (Pointing at Hon. Mtolo)?

Mr Mtolo: There was none.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, there was no fiscal space. The hon. Member talked about projects not being completed. We have never made a pronouncement in the House or anywhere else that we have stopped completing projects that are below 80 per cent. Actually, the PF Government made that pronouncement. How can the PF hon. Members forget their own pronouncement? That is why I said that they should not expose themselves. They need to be calm in certain situations because they are reminding Zambians of their pronouncements. Even with the small fiscal space we found, we have said that we will complete the projects slowly as we go on, and that is happening.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, there was a pronouncement made that all the projects that were below 80 per cent would be stopped during their Government. What was the reason? Maybe, it was for fun. I thought it was because of lack of fiscal space. Yes, we continue to struggle, but we have improved the fiscal space. That is why today they have the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

Ms Kampamba interjected.

The Vice-President: Yes. That is money, mwana. Sorry, hon. Member.

Laughter

 The Vice-President: Where is that money coming from? It is from the prudent expenditure of our resources. It is from the good will from the global village, because people saw how seriously we took the people’s resources.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member also said that we import power. That also shows our fiscal strength. If we had no money, how were we going to import power? How are we importing power if we have no money? That is contradictory. Others can say it is a paradox. Some may put it that way. How can we import power if we have no fiscal space? The two things cannot be true at the same time because they contradict each other. We are importing electricity because we do not have it. 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member is concerned about by-elections. Did he say that we have created by-elections, which will be extremely costly? Honestly, does the hon. Member know that the behaviour of the Opposition PF is annoying the Zambian people?

Hon. UPND Members: Hammer!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, did the Government expel people from here? That is a very serious matter to me. The people voted for the members of the PF to come here, but they have started playing games. Today, their President is one person. The next day, another person is expelled. Tomorrow, another one will be fired.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member should understand that that is very painful. We are democratic so we value the Opposition.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, we value the Opposition, but the Opposition is lost. Chihunya. Have they ever heard of that term? That is what they are doing. Chihunya. There is an insect which eats itself. It is a Tonga name for an insect that eats itself. Hon. Lunga, this is serious. They are eating themselves, and we are watching. They think we should help them. No.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Your Honour the Vice-President, is that an English word you used? Chihunya?

The Vice-President: It is a Tonga name for an insect that eats itself.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Not chilingalinga. That is what the Opposition, particularly the PF, is doing. It is eating itself, and its members expect us, their competitors, to help them. No. Let them eat themselves.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: They have let the Zambian people down.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Yes. Come on, think about it. Do not take things lightly. Those are national issues. His Excellency the President has said that he does not want by-elections. So, why would the PF hon. Members fire each other to create by-elections? Should the President change the law? The PF hon. Members are letting us down. Let them become proper Opposition members. They must stop what they are doing, although I am not even supposed to counsel them. I should enjoy seeing them ruining each other. We are competitors. Do not look for help from your competitor because that is very bad.

Madam Speaker, who is the PF President?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Come on.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

The Vice-President: Be serious.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

We make progress.

Hon. PF Members: Ifyapalanako.

Mr E. Tembo (Feira): Madam Speaker, –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

You may continue, hon. Member for Feira.

Mr E. Tembo: Madam Speaker, when the United Party for National Development (UPND) was in the Opposition, it blamed the Patriotic Front (PF) Government for blaming load-shedding on climate change. I wish the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development were present in the House today. There is a video clip that is circulating on social media, in which the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development says, “You know, the PF is failing to handle load-shedding when we have Chembe River. We can just get the water 100 km away and send it to Kariba Dam.” Today, the UPND is in the Government. By an unlikely event, it formed the Government.

Madam Speaker, the UPND gave the PF Government ideas on how to handle load-shedding at that time, such as getting water from Chembe River. Those ideas do not exist now. Has Her Honour the Vice- President consulted the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development to address load-shedding, instead of the Government creating by-elections? All the nine expulsions were nullified. The PF resolved the matter of expulsions, and the matter was communicated to the Government. However, the Government manipulated the House to expel the nine PF hon. Members. Does Her Honour the Vice-President have solutions for load-shedding?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, his question focused on a matter I am from handling. In fact, he has accused the Government of treating the matter like it is personal. No. The position of the UPND Government is that it does not want by-elections.

Laughter

Hon. PF Members: Question!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the House should allow me to give answers one-by-one. Then, I will stand on the Floor of the House to answer the same question. Hon. Member for Feira Constituency, the entire UPND Government does not want by-elections. The Government has many issues to handle, including the drought that the country experienced. So, it cannot look forward to by-elections.

Madam Speaker, the PF hon. Members are bringing issues that the Government is not privy to. If they have had a conversation with the Presiding Officers, the UPND Government was not privy to it. If they have issues with the courts, they must remember the principle of separation of powers. The UPND Government does not get involved when they take each other to court and when the rulings are rendered. Why are they bringing the UPND in the matter? The UPND is the Executive. Whatever is happening with the Legislature has nothing to do with the UPND Government. The Government has no power to bring back the hon. Members who have been expelled, even if it wanted to do so. The power lies in the hands of the Judiciary, the PF and the Legislature. So, please, let them not cry. Instead, they should work on the matter.

Madam Speaker, climate change is the real issue so I will stick to that. I will not address the video clip circulating on social media because I have not seen it.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, thank you very much, and good morning to Her Honour the Vice-President. I just want to remind the House that the second-largest opposition party in the House is intact.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Wamunyima: Madam Speaker, the 2024 National Budget, which was pegged at K177 billion, had 79 per cent local revenue funding. So, about K140 billion from the total Budget was funded by local revenues collected. In the last few months, the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) has continued to register a huge drop in local revenue collection. The Supplementary Budget that will be before the House indicates that there is 9 per cent revenue collection.

Madam Speaker, my concern is that while the Government is undertaking debt restructuring, the country’s debt is swelling because an additional K16 billion has been borrowed to finance the Supplementary Budget. That will increase the debt profile to US$1.6 billion. How will the Government resolve that issue?  I know that debt is a legacy issue, but does the Government have immediate measures to manage the swelling debt in the midst of the debt restructuring process?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, that is a very serious concern. Indeed, that is an issue that should be looked at. We have the Supplementary Budget. I think that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning can answer better than I would. That is a technical question. I know about debt restructuring, but I think an in-depth answer will be given later today. We have the Supplementary Budget, which indicates that local revenue collection has dropped by a record number. I am sure that the factors attributed to that scenario will be given as we debate the Supplementary Budget. It is a very serious matter, and I am sure that an explanation will be given. There is a need to look at the expenditure and the repayment of the loans. All the factors must be put into consideration, and the House has an opportunity to do so today as we debate the Supplementary Budget.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, Medical Stores Limited (MSL) used to supply drugs, but it was not very effective. Now, the Zambia Medicines and Medical Supplies Agency (ZAMMSA) is the organisation that distributes drugs to hospitals and clinics. The stock levels in the hospitals and clinics in Kalabo Central have increased. I would like to get a comment from Her Honour the Vice-President on whether the Government does not desire to remove the district medical bases and supply drugs directly to health centres.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kalabo Central, which is a non-urban district like Kaputa.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Do not call us “rural” in the House. If you do, we will cry.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I do understand. I think that the hon. Member’s reasoning is that if the Zambia Medicines and Medical Supplies Agency (ZAMMSA)took medicines directly to the health facilities, probably, pilferage would be reduced because there would be direct accountability. However, I do not think that can easily be done. Even just taking ZAMMSA to every centre may be difficult. So, the district is the buffer. Accountability, which is what the hon. Member is concerned about, can still be tackled even in the current situation. The issue is a little technical. So, we need to hear why the situation is that way from the Ministry of Health. Why do we have districts? In every situation, I think that there are district officials from the ministries. They are the ones who interact with the people on the ground so that information is given and received better. I do not know a lot about that matter, but I can find out more about it.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kolala (Lufubu): Madam Speaker, the people of Lufubu are geared to farm this year. However, the problem is that there are a few people who are on the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) and the Food Security Pack (FSP) programme. The rest buy fertiliser for themselves. Is there any intention by the Government to reduce the cost of fertiliser this year to K500 or below per bag?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member said that people are geared to farm, but very few people are on the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). We should not forget to sensitise our people that there is a credit window that they can use to buy farming inputs. To suggest that the cost of fertiliser be reduced by the Government –

Mr Kasandwe interjected.

The Vice-President: You agree also.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, a few years ago, I used to see an advertisement about tyres. I do not know whether it still exists. I always used to wonder what it meant. It was a beautiful advertisement selling tyres, here in Zambia. Someone in the advert used to say, “chefyeni umutengo, chefyeni umutengo.” Can one just wake up and reduce a price? There are factors that affect the cost of producing a commodity. So, we cannot say, “Let us reduce prices.” The hon. Member is a businessman. Can that work?

Madam Speaker, does the hon. Member know that the Government is the one paying for FISP? That programme is a social welfare issue. So, he is saying that we should increase social welfare spending. I do not think that that is something that can be done like the hon. Member said it. It is important that we introduce people to the credit window for buying farming inputs, and then they will prosper. They will look after their own money. They will be more careful because they will use their own money to buy the inputs. They will pay back the money and create wealth for themselves. The Government will continue to support the vulnerable, but being on a social welfare programme constantly is not a way of life.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, it is unfortunate that sixty years after Independence, the cost of mealie meal is still a problem. It has been a thorn in every Government from the United National Independence Party (UNIP). In the previous Government, close to US$288 million was invested in putting solar milling plants around the country. Almost every constituency has them, and people were encouraged to mill their maize at those plants. It was thought that the establishment of solar milling plants was one way to reduce the cost of mealie meal. Has the New Dawn Government taken a keen interest to establish whether the solar milling plants are functioning? Taxpayers right now owe close to US$288 million that was used to purchase the plants. The New Dawn Government has also announced that it wants to invest in ten milling plants in almost all the provincial centres. Has the Government carefully looked at the solar milling plants to see whether they are being used optimally, before spending extra money on new investments to curb the cost of mealie meal? The cost of mealie meal has been a problem for almost every Government to date. 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for that very important question and observation.

Yes, the cost of mealie meal is still a challenge. The hon. Member referred to the solar milling plants; I have seen them all blue all over the place. I think that the intention behind them was very good. If they were functional, you can imagine what the cost of mealie meal would be. The people would be buying maize rather than mealie meal. We are encouraging people to do that even now, because the cost of maize is far much better than the cost of mealie meal.

Madam Speaker, the intention behind the solar milling plants was good. However, most of them came without batteries. We would like to use them because they would be extremely helpful. Sometimes, transportation of maize adds to the cost of mealie meal. The solar milling plants came without batteries. We will continue to see how the cost of mealie meal can be reduced by having milling plants near to the people. I do not know whether the hon. Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development can do something to make the solar milling plants functional. Milling plants can be helpful when they are functional.

Madam Speaker, I think that when hon. Members find issues of that nature, it is important that they walk over to our offices and give us ideas. That way, we will move together. Mealie meal is our staple food so we must find a good price for it. That price has eluded us, but this time, we think that empowering farmers to produce more will help us. That way, supply and demand will be at play.  

Madam Speaker, I may not have heard everything that the hon. Member said because the hon. Minister was also talking to me. That is the little I understood.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mrs Sabao (Chikankata): Madam Speaker, the tourism sector was the worst-hit sector during the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic. Arguably, it has now been hit by load-shedding. Is the listening United Party for National Development (UPND) Government considering exempting the industry from load-shedding, following the directive by the President to exempt schools and hospitals in the country from load-shedding?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I hope that I heard the question clearly. I think that it was on tourism. She said that tourism was the worst-hit industry during the Coronavirus Disease-2019 (COVID-19) pandemic, and now it has been hit by load-shedding. That was her observation. The question is on the directive of the President that load-shedding should not affect schools, health institutions and others –

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Is it included?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Your Honour the Vice-President, there is a ministerial statement by the hon. Minister of Energy coming after your segment on the same issue. The ministerial statement is in line with what is happening in the management of load-shedding. So, we can excuse you and wait for the ministerial statement.

Lastly, the hon. Member for Solwezi East may ask his question.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, thank you for remembering me to be the last person to ask Her Honour the Vice-President a question.

Madam Speaker, before the United Party for National Development (UPND) came in power, many civil servants in the Government and quasi-Government institutions were retired in the national interest on flimsy grounds, including on the ground that they were UPND sympathisers. When we came into power, those people appealed their retirements through the Cabinet Office. However, quite a number of them have not been heard. When will those who appealed their retirement in the national interest based on being UPND sympathisers go back to work?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Solwezi East for that important question.

Madam Speaker, since my time is almost finished, I will say that I do not know why they were fired in the national interest. I do not understand because the public interest and the national interest are two different things. They were fired in the national interest. The hon. Member has said that those who were fired went back to work. They did not go back to work; they filed complaints. They wrote to the Secretary to Cabinet. However, the issue could not be decided through a pronouncement for all of them. Their cases were assessed on a case-by-case basis, because a person can take advantage and say, “I was victimised,” when in fact not. Even now, some people who have committed wrongs in the Civil Service and are being dealt with are saying, “This is happening because I am a PF member.” So, matters must be looked at on a case-by-case basis. Some of them have gone back, but others have not because the decision of the former regime was upheld. I cannot state exactly when all the cases will be decided because it will not happen at the same time. The decisions will be taken gradually. A person has to give convincing reasons he or she was fired, even if it was because he or she was a member of the UPND. The matters are still ongoing.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you so much. We make progress.

_______

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

LOAD-SHEDDING IN HEALTH INSTITUTIONS

The Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala): Madam Speaker, I wish to thank you for granting me this opportunity to deliver a ministerial statement, following an Urgent Matter without Notice, raised by the former Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu, Hon. Stephen Kampyongo, ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapala: ... on whether hospitals and other important institutions are being load-shed as seen on the load-shedding schedule.

Madam Speaker, our utmost goal as a ministry, and indeed, as the Government, is to protect the lives of citizens. That has been reiterated in the drought response approach.

Madam Speaker, allow me, once again, –

Mr Simumba: Bangenamo nabo aba!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Nakonde, the hon. Minister is issuing a ministerial statement. You are supposed to listen on behalf of your people, so that you ask the hon. Minister questions about the challenges affecting your people regarding energy. However, you are busy chatting. You are debating while seated.

The hon. Minister may continue.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, allow me once again, to remind the august House on the low water levels in our major reservoirs, which have been necessitated by the impact of the El Nino drought with significant effects on the energy sector, power generation in particular. As a result of the impact, a planned load-shedding and load management was effected in March 2024to avoid a complete shutdown of power stations.

Madam Speaker, in executing the load-shedding, the President’s directive to ensure strategic institutions such as hospitals, clinics and water utilities are not affected, is being followed to the letter. Therefore, ZESCO Limited implemented an eight-hour load-shedding programme, which was effected on 11^th March, 2024. After a critical review of the ongoing load management measures, on 20^th May, 2024, a decision was made to extend the daily hours of load-shedding from eight hours to twelve hours to ensure that power supply is available until the end of the year, and further prevent damage to the power generating machines due to insufficient water levels.

Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the august House that abruption in the schedules coupled with long hours of load-shedding may be experienced due to unforeseen technical faults or thefts of installations coupled with excessive consumption of power beyond the available allocated power. Nonetheless, in implementing the load-shedding programme, ZESCO Limited was directed to consider the vital role played by strategic institutions, such as health facilities, water utilities, industry and mining firms, as well as security wings. Therefore, these critical institutions and establishments have been exempted from load management by providing electricity on a twenty-four-hour basis.

Madam Speaker, the current load on exempted institutions stands at 122 MW divided as follows:

Institution                    MW

Hospitals                     42

Water utilities              38

Security wings            42

Madam Speaker, on 1^st July, 2024, ZESCO Limited published a load-shedding schedule for various customer categories, which included the load-shedding schedule for Group G, the Lusaka Water and Sewerage Company (LWSC) and hospital areas for Lusaka Province. I would like to inform this august House that the schedule released for Lusaka indicating Group G - 0800 hours to 2000 hours of load-shedding for the LWSC and hospital areas, is not for the hospitals or the critical institutions but for the surrounding areas. The LWSC and hospital areas are those that were initially not included in the load-shedding schedule because they were previously in the line for hospitals and other critical institutions. ZESCO Limited has now isolated the lines of the critical institutions, thus the LWSC, hospitals and the surrounding residential areas have now been included in the schedule. It is important to note that the intended institutions are not being load-shed and that neither the ministry nor ZESCO Limited are going against the President’s directive.

Madam Speaker, I wish to indicate that we do realise that the naming of Group G, which reads "Lusaka Water and Sewerage Company and Hospital Areas," has brought some ambiguity as it may portray that the water utilities and hospitals are being load-shed. With this clarification, I wish to report that ZESCO Limited will today re-classify the group and be specific to the actual areas in Group G and any other groups that may create similar miscommunication.

Madam Speaker, in instances where hospitals have experienced power outages, such occurrences have been due to technical faults and unscrupulous acts of theft and vandalism on some installations, or excessive power usage in some instances. Further, in cases where there are power outages at the institutions in question, the utility has been directed to effectively communicate to the affected institution way in advance before carrying out maintenance works. Further, a few health institutions are technically impossible to isolate, given how embedded they are in the ZESCO Limited transmission. To cushion the impact of load-shedding to those institutions, the Ministry of Energy and key stakeholders are currently implementing the President’s Solar Initiative of installing solar solutions. Institutional assessments for this initiative are currently ongoing.

Madam Speaker, allow me to also indicate that ZESCO Limited has continued to face challenges in implementing the load-shedding schedule due to the following reasons:

a) Shift in load patterns:  The power rationing to reduce load generation by 50 per cent. This is often not achieved due to shift in load patterns. Actual energy consumption during the twelve hours when power is made available to the clients exceeds 50 per cent projected consumption due to clients maximising usage of electricity during the twelve hours when power is available. The increased usage during the period electricity is made available leads to increase in power rationing hours in order to achieve the planned 50 per cent energy consumption. In order to achieve the targeted load generation reduction, the number of power rationing hours is sometimes increased beyond the stipulated twelve hours;

b) Exempted loads of approximately 122 MW not participating in load management power rationing. Those are the ones I indicated as exempted institutions;

c) Delayed restoration of power is sometimes due to failure of controls, equipment failing at the time of restoration, and vandalised installations during the time the circuit is out on load management; and

d) Clients taking long to report faults due to failure to distinguish between load management and faults.

Madam Speaker, the Government has noted the need for a lasting solution that fosters the provision of affordable and sustainable energy services for key institutions, such as health facilities, industries, businesses and households. In this regard, the measures put in place include short-term, medium-term and long-term, which I alluded to in my previous ministerial statement dated 13^th June, 2024. The measures being implemented are meant to sustain ZESCO Limited’s operations and attract investments for the utility. In the broader sense, the measures are aimed at boosting the electricity sub-sector and, in turn, improve service delivery to customers.

Madam Speaker, as I end, I wish to repeat and extend my invitation to the hon. Members of Parliament to visit Itezhi-Tezhi Power Station and Lake Kariba to appreciate the water crisis and the challenge we are facing to meet the electricity demand for the entire country. The invitation will be actualised in the next one week so that together we can understand the situation and disseminate the much-needed information to the public.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement issued by the hon. Minister.

Mr Charles Mulenga (Kwacha): Madam Speaker, some of us hon. Members of Parliament appreciate and understand that the load-shedding in the country is not being done deliberately by the Government, it is because of the effects of the drought. Desperate situations call for desperate measures. We need to start importing power from our neighbours. I want to find out when the Government will start importing power from neighbouring countries that have excess power, such as Mozambique and Tanzania. The load-shedding problem has affected Kwacha, such that most of our clinics are being load-shed.

Mr B. Mpundu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Before the hon. Minister answers the question, hon. Member for Nkana, your point of order is on whom?

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, I should have raised the matter contemporaneously, but because of the Vice-President’s Question Time and the ministerial statement, I could not raise it.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: It is on whom?

Mr B. Mpundu: May I state the matter, Madam Speaker?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: No, because I want to determine whether it is admissible or not.

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, the point of order is on the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Madam Speaker, this Parliament is well-secured by the security wing of the National Assembly. There are no threats at Parliament that would warrant a horde of police officers in riot gear, and vehicles all over the premises. There is a horde of police officers around the premises. The premises are secured by our men under the National Assembly security wing.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security in order to bring the police, who are seemingly threatening the peace here at Parliament?

I seek your indulgence, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is the Standing Order that has been breached?

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, the practice of Parliament dictates that we are secured by own security men. So, what has been breached is the practice of the House.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, that point of order is inadmissible. If you have a concern, bring it to my attention in another way so that it can be dealt with.

The hon. Minister of Energy may respond to the question raised by the hon. Member for Kwacha.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I came to the House earlier and indicated that we are currently importing electricity from Mozambique and that there is no inter-connector between Zambia and Tanzania, so we cannot import any power from that country.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Energy has outlined the measures that the Government is going to take in order not to load-shed the consumers who are in Group G. That category has hospitals or health centres and higher institutions of learning like the University of Zambia (UNZA) and the Evelyn Hone College of Applied Arts and Commerce. I would like to find out what the total power demand for institutions that the ministry has targeted not to load-shed is.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the total demand that I know is for Lusaka Province, which stands at about 300 MW. I am yet to get the total demand for all Government institutions and buildings in the country. I can come back to the House and give the accurate figure.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kolala (Lufubu): Madam Speaker, I have seen that the hon. Minister is doing everything possible to manage the problem. By the time he is done, the problem will be resolved forever. Lufubu is one of the constituencies that the ministry is trying to connect to the national electricity grid. I am concerned, about the load-shedding programme. Is it affecting new connections? If not, are new connections going to be made this year?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I need to check the status of connections in Lufubu. Then I will get back to the House.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sialubalo (Sinazongwe): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for his well-articulated statement, especially that he indicated that public institutions that are sharing a transformer with the community will have solar systems as backup very soon. We cannot wait for that. Maamba General Hospital has been affected by load-shedding, so we need the backup solar system as soon as possible. My question to the hon. Minister is whether we should expect a worse situation than the twelve hours we are seeing now going forward. Are the load-shedding hours going to be increased to eighteen hours, twenty-four hours or even two days? People need to get prepared for the unforeseen in the near future.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, we can only get better from where we are. We have put measures in place …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapala: … to ensure that within the next three or four months, additional power is imported again from Mozambique, as well as the introduction of expensive power using diesel generators.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simumba (Nakonde): Madam Speaker, load-shedding is a result of a lack of leadership.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Simumba: In Dubai, there is no rain, but load-shedding is not there. I am wondering why the hon. Minister cannot go and learn something from Dubai. The President emphasised that the load-shedding in the previous regime was a result of a lack of leadership. As I am speaking now, in Nakonde, bodies in the mortuaries are decomposing. ZESCO Limited in Nakonde is failing to work according to the directive that the President gave. ZESCO Limited is working against the directive that the President gave. What is the hon. Minister going to do with the management of ZESCO Limited in Nakonde because it has continued to load-shed hospitals?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, as far as I know, lack of leadership is when you default on payments. The previous regime defaulted in paying Karpowership that was anchored in Mozambique.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the previous Government defaulted payments on the construction of the Kafue Lower Gorge Power Station. We are trying to sort out the problem in an orderly manner.

Madam Speaker, in my statement, I already stated that hospitals are exempt from load-shedding. I need to verify what the hon. Member for Nakonde has stated. I need to confirm that bodies are actually rotting in Nakonde.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, that is the reason people should understand that climate change is here to stay. Today, we are crying because of the El Nino effect of the drought. Other countries like Brazil are equally crying because their power stations have been washed away due to La Niña. It is either you receive more rain or less. In Kabwata, we are planning to install solar panels on the roofs of all health posts and police posts.

Madam Speaker, in a crisis, you will always find people who find opportunities or abuse them. We have twelve hours of load-shedding and so criminals have taken advantage by stealing transformers and cables. What measures has the ministry put in place to avoid the long load-shedding hours affecting ZESCO Limited installations?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, a short answer to that question is that that is a security issue, and it is of concern. I indicated in my statement that there is a lot of vandalism. We are encouraging security agencies to work extra hard. The people who are getting affected by the vandals should report such acts to the police as soon as possible.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Chienge may ask her question via Zoom.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, – (inaudible).

Madam First Deputy Speaker: She is not ready.

The hon. Member for Chifubu may ask his question. We will come back to the hon. Member for Chienge when she is ready.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing the voice of –

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, –

Rev. Katuta: But I am here, Madam Speaker – (inaudible). 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: It seems your network is poor, hon. Member for Chienge. We will come back to you when you are ready.

The hon. Member for Chifubu may continue.

Mr Lubozha: Madam Speaker, I have a concern about Chifubu Level I Hospital. Following the commissioning of the hospital by His Excellency the President, in the last two months, the hospital has not operated at full capacity because of load-shedding. When I made a follow-up, I was told that ZESCO Limited needed to isolate the line connecting the hospital to electricity. I informed ZESCO Limited that the hospital has a very powerful generator and a large fuel storage capacity. So, ZESCO Limited accepted to supplement diesel to make the hospital operational. However, that has not been done, which forced the hospital to move all the bodies which were in the mortuary to Ndola Teaching Hospital and close all the wards. The hospital is only offering outpatient services despite a generator being available at the hospital. What is the ministry doing in the interim to help the hospital run the generator so that it can go back to full operations?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, that is quite a serious matter. If ZESCO Limited promised that it would supplement diesel for the hospital, I will make a follow-up to ensure that that is done as soon as possible.    

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Jamba (Mwembezhi): Madam Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister try to give solutions regarding the problem we are facing. I do not know how much money the ministry is spending to import power to stabilise power supply in Zambia. Why is the Government not considering making a canal to feed water into the Kafue River? We have accepted to just suffer …

Interruptions

Mr Jamba: … or endure the load-shedding.

Madam Speaker, it will not take a long time to make a canal that will connect some rivers to the Kafue River so that we do not have to share the water in the Zambezi River. Is the Government not considering that idea? All the solutions that the ministry is trying to make are temporary because the Government will still import power next year. Has the ministry done a thorough investigation about that issue so that we connect a canal to Kafue River?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, that is quite a highly technical question, but I can assure the hon. Member for Mwembezhi that we have plans to transfer water from the Luapula River into the Kafue River. I am working hand in hand with my hon. Colleague, Eng. Nzovu. We shall come to the House to give an update on how far we have gone with the project. That is a long-term project, but we are trying to mitigate the problem we are facing now.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Nkandu: Hear, hear!

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, can you hear me? I am trying to find –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Are you ready, hon. Member for Chienge?

Rev. Katuta: Can you hear me, Madam Speaker?

Madam First Deputy Speaker:We can hear you. Please, ask your question.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister said that he is yet to get the reportthat bodies are decomposing in mortuaries.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 Hon. Member for Chienge, you are not visible on video. We cannot see you.

Rev. Katuta: I am charging my tablet. Let me do this –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Okay.

Just prepare yourself. We will come back to you when you are ready.

Rev. Katuta: I am here.

Laughter

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister said that bodies are not decomposing. We have the same challenge in Chienge because hospitals cannot afford to buy diesel for generators. So, we have a very serious problem. The hon. Minister said that hospitals are not being load-shed, but health posts and health centres are being load-shed in Chienge. So, I would like to find out where the hon. Minister got the information that bodies are not decomposing in mortuaries.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I never said that bodies are not rotting in the mortuaries. I said that I would check and verify the information given by the hon. Member of Parliament for Nakonde to establish whether it is accurate. The same applies to the hon. Member of Parliament for Chienge. I will verify the information and come back to the House and give an accurate position.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mandandi (Sioma): Madam Speaker, I am so grateful for the interventions that the Government has put in place, such as importation of power to ensure that the economy keeps running. The Government also plans to introduce thermal power production. However, those are short-term measures. There is a long-term power project in Sioma by the Western Power Company (WPC). If that project was completed, it would add about 180 MW to the national grid. The water levels in Sioma are not bad. I am sure that if a hydro-electricity station were constructed now, it would significantly improve power output and reduce the national power deficit that we are experiencing. Areas in the Western Province in particular would be saved from the power outages that we are experiencing.

Madam Speaker, that power project is being implemented by the Government in collaboration with the private sector, the community, which is the Barotse Royal Establishment (BRE) and ZESCO Limited. Does the Government not think that it is prudent for it to work closely with the company implementing the project so that works are not delayed?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I can only answer the latter part of his submission. We are in constant meetings with the Western Power Company (WPC). Therefore, I can safely inform the hon. Member that the project will soon come to financial close. Once that is done, construction will begin. Let me hasten to mention that hydro-power projects take three to four years before they can come on stream. So, those are the long-term solutions we are working on. I want to assure the House that we have so much interest in the project, and we want to see it actualised, so that the construction can start next year or the other year.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Hamwaata (Pemba): Madam Speaker, I understand that load-shedding is as a result of poor rainfall received during the 2023/2024 Rainy Season. I am very confident that the country will never come back to the current situation because of the leadership of the Government and the interventions it has put in place.

Madam Speaker, as we speak right now, there are youths who are planning to demonstrate against the load-shedding. Of course, I suspect that they are sponsored. The demonstration is planned to be staged on 10^th July, 2024. I would like to find out whether the hon. Minister has a message for the youth of this country, who are organising the demonstration, because the Government is not responsible for the current load-shedding. To some extent, the previous Government should have planned in advance to sort out the problem –

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamwaata: I would like to hear the hon. Minister’s comments or advice to the youth of this nation.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Pemba for that important question.

Madam Speaker, I would like to put on record that ZESCO Limited has already engaged the group in question, and has asked it to take a tour of all the hydro-power stations to see what is happening there as a result of the drought. So, I anticipate that it will take up the challenge to go and appreciate the depth of the problem.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chonde (Milenge): Madam Speaker, we are getting desperate about the situation in Milenge. The only hospital there is being load-shed and only receives power for an hour a day. That has created a desperate situation. In his statement, the hon. Minister mentioned many solutions to the problem. He said that his ministry is going to assist hospitals whose electricity lines are difficult to isolate. His solution sounds open-ended. Does the ministry have timelines attached to the solutions to the problem so that Milenge can benefit from them?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, those are very important institutions and as such, there are no timelines. The timeline is now. ZESCO Limited will look into the report so that we can verify. There is a tendency to exaggerate situations that do not even exist.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.        

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Hlazo (Chilanga): Mr Speaker, load-shedding has created serious problems in Chilanga. I say so because all our health facilities are still being load-shed, and the security wings in the district are also being load-shed.

Mr Speaker, Lusaka West Military Camp Apollo L85 Hospital and the Zambia Air Force (ZAF) Lusaka West Mount Eugenia Military Base Hospital, Tubalange Mini Hospital, Chilanga Mini Hospital, Nakachenje Mini Hospital, including industries, are still being load-shed. So, I want to find out when ZESCO Limited will come to Chilanga to conduct an assessment. If it is possible, it should consider removing some of those facilities from the load-shedding schedule.

Mr Kapala: Mr Speaker, I think that my answers are now becoming generic. The problem seems to be everywhere. I have indicated to the House that I will contact ZESCO Limited to verify all the reports that I have received.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chibombwe (Bahati): Mr Speaker, most hospitals in the country are not on what are known as dedicated power lines. Therefore, it is so difficult and expensive to create dedicated power lines for them, especially in rural districts. In Mansa, we are experiencing load-shedding of up to twenty hours every day. Power is restored for about two hours. Has the Ministry of Energy sat down to discuss how to sort out this issue with the Ministry of Health?

Mr Speaker, we have K3 million per constituency for buying ambulances. We can use that money to purchase off-grid power systems because we are in a crisis. We already have ambulances in our constituencies that are limping. I want to find out if the Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Energy can use the K3 million allocation meant for ambulances in constituencies to purchase off-grid power systems. The future of power generation in the country is in Luapula Province, and the people are waiting for the contractor to get to the site at Kalungwishi and many others.

Mr Kapala: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the fact that the hon. Member of Parliament for Bahati is an engineer and understands that most of the hospitals are not on dedicated power lines.

Mr Speaker, I would support the idea of each constituency using K3 million from its Constituency Development Fund (CDF) on alternative power solutions. I can engage my counterparts, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development and the hon. Minister of Health, so that we come to an understanding and implement that idea. Since the money is already there, it should not be much of a problem to implement the idea.

I thank you, Mr Speaker. 

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Mr Speaker, the problem at hand is countrywide. How low are the water levels in Kariba Dam? The nation needs to know how low the levels are so that it can appreciate the problem. It is so good that the hon. Minister will take the youths to go and appreciate the situation as well.    

Mr Kapala: Mr Speaker, the figure that I have for the water levels in Kariba Dam is about 24 per cent usable water to last up to the end of the year. That is the main reason that the ministry has invited thirty hon. Members of Parliament to accompany us to Kariba Dam and Itezhi-Tezhi. We are taking them there so that they can appreciate and understand the depth of the problem.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: When?  

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, the Government is on a quest to continue providing power to us. First of all, I must confess that I have seen the situation improve, and I thank the hon. Minister for his continued hard work. The situation is improving –

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munsanje:  The Government is sorting out the problem.

Mr Speaker, this is not a man-made problem but one that has come as a result of the drought. However, there are people who do not seem to understand or see the impact of the drought in the country. How else should we explain the matter to the people who do not seem to see that the drought has caused load-shedding? All of us have experienced hunger, drought and the like. The drought has affected electricity production, but some people keep arguing like nincompoops. What is the ministry doing to ensure that constituencies can generate solar power –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Mbabala, I think that the hon. Minister has heard your question.

Mr Munsanje: I just wanted to finish it.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You are taking too much time, hon. Member.

Mr Munsanje: Alright. I just wanted to finish it –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Thank you. You may resume your seat. The hon. Minister has heard your question.

I have added extra six minutes.

Mr Kapala: Mr Speaker, I think that the hon. Member ended by complimenting the efforts that the Government is making, so I thank him very much.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Siachisumo (Lufwanyama): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the efforts he is making to mitigate load-shedding. Wind can produce energy. What is the Government doing to introduce wind energy production? Wind has proved to be a very good source of energy in other countries such as China and the United States of America. The Paris Agreement also supports a clean environment by using wind energy.

Mr Kapala: Mr Speaker, I mentioned in this august House that in Masaiti and Katete, there are projects meant for wind energy production. I do not have the dates as to when those projects will be actualised. However, the projects are in the pipeline and will eventually be actualised.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kandafula (Serenje): Mr Speaker, I have a concern over the issue of vandalism –

Mr B. Mpundu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr B. Mpundu: Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order against the hon. Member of Parliament for Mbabala. The word “nincompoop” means silly or stupid. That is the word that the hon. Member has used on the Floor. In short, he said that some people who are speaking on the issue of climate change are stupid.

Mr Speaker, is he in order to use such a provocative and unparliamentary word and go scot-free?

I seek your indulgence, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Thank you. I did not hear the hon. Member. However, if he did say so, he has to desist from using such words on the Floor. He knows which words are parliamentary. Avoid provoking one another and ensure that you are all honourable in your conduct and speech.

Let us proceed. The hon. Member for Serenje may continue.

Mr Kandafula: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that vandalism is one of the issues that probably cause prolonged load-shedding. When I look back, I see that even before the load-shedding programme, vandalism was there; the problem has been amplified now because of load-shedding. Does the ministry have any plans to deter the people who deal in scrap metal from removing accessories such as cables and switch gears from ZESCO Limited installations? Does it have a plan to prevent them from involving themselves in vandalism?

Mr Kapala: Mr Speaker, vandalism is becoming a big problem in the country. There is a lot of vandalism. I do not know what has heightened vandalism on ZESCO Limited infrastructure. I will engage the Ministry of Justice to see how we can come up with stringent or punitive measures to deter would-be vandals.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Mr Speaker, in 2017, the previous Government signed an inter-governmental agreement with the Government of Russia for the construction of the US$500 million nuclear power plant in Chongwe. What is the status of that agreement?

Mr Kapala: Mr Speaker, as the hon. Member of Parliament for Nalolo indicated, the project was going to cost the Government US$500 million in the first phase of the two-phase approach. The first phase was purely educational. This is a very expensive project so the Government cannot commit any funds. We can only consider it when funds are available. Currently, we have many competing needs that need to be attended to.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Mr Speaker, in his statement, the hon. Minister mentioned that some health institutions are being affected by load-shedding because their electricity lines are connected to lines for residential areas. I will cite my constituency, Roan. There are three mini-hospitals situated in residential areas. Therefore, they are affected by load-shedding when residential areas are load-shed. The hon. Minister mentioned that the ministry is working on a programme to procure solar panels for those institutions. When will that be done?We have a big challenge now because during emergencies, people have to use torches on their phones to assist nurses or clinical officers to administer cannulas to the sick.

Mr Kapala: Mr Speaker, let me take this opportunity to inform the House that the project is currently at technical and scoping level. So, we anticipate that it will kick off in the third quarter of the year.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Malambo (Magoye): Mr Speaker, about eighteen farmers in Magoye have grown wheat in winter on about 180 ha. Unfortunately, they have electricity for only about six hours. Therefore, the centre pivots that they use to irrigate their crop are not able to function properly. It takes about nine days to irrigate the 180 ha. Is there a mechanism that that the ministry can use to help the farmers because their crop is dying?

Mr Kapala: Mr Speaker, ZESCO Limited has been given instructions to ensure that farmers who use centre pivots are given power at night so that they irrigate their crops. They should be load-shed during the day.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

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MOTION

SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES NO. 1 OF 2024

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane):  Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now resolve into Committee of Supply to consider Supplementary Estimates No.1 of 2024.

Mr Speaker, I am a bearer of a message from His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, recommending favourable consideration of the Motion that I now lay on the Table.

Dr Musokotwane laid the paper on the Table.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Mr Speaker, thank you for according me an opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Floor of the House, and to present the highlights contained in the Report of the Expanded Planning and Budgeting Committee, on its consideration of the Supplementary Estimates No.1 of 2024.

Mr Speaker, the House will recall that in December 2023, Parliament enacted the Appropriation Act No. 29 of 2023 authorising expenditure not exceeding K177.9 billion aimed at unlocking Zambia’s economic potential. However, following the declaration of the drought that Zambia has experienced as a national disaster and an emergency, it became necessary for the Government to provide humanitarian support, especially to the most vulnerable. In this regard, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning proposed K41.9 billion Supplementary Estimates, which he presented to the National Assembly for approval on 21^st June, 2024. Pursuant to Standing Order No. 173 of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024, the Supplementary Estimates were subsequently referred to the Expanded Planning and Budgeting Committee for scrutiny.

Mr Speaker, in addition to being a response to the drought, the K41.9 billion Supplementary Estimates are earmarked for servicing external debt, dismantling fuel arrears and recapitalising selected state-owned enterprises (SOEs). Notably, they came against the backdrop of the downward revision of the gross domestic product (GDP) growth rate from 4.7 per cent to 2.3 per cent and the energy crisis.

Mr Speaker, let me state from the outset that the Committee supports the Supplementary Estimates No. 1 of 2024, and its observations and recommendations are documented in its report. I am confident that my fellow hon. Members have had occasion to peruse the report. In this regard, allow me to comment only on some of the issues contained in the report.

Mr Speaker, the Committee applauds the Government for its intervention to enhance and upgrade social protection for the most vulnerable in society through Cash for Work, Keeping Girls in School (KGS) programme and the School Feeding Programme. In this regard, the Committee urges the Government to ensure that the programmes are administered fairly and effectively in order to benefit those most in need.

Mr Speaker, the Committee observed that the Government has proposed interventions aimed at the water and sanitation sector, such as supplying water treatment chemicals to some water utility companies, drilling boreholes, and maintaining dams. The Committee commends the Government and urges it to ensure that those measures are expeditiously implemented in order to achieve the intended objectives.

Mr Speaker, the Committee noted that in an effort to build a resilient economy, an amount of K14.6 billion or 34.8 per cent has been dedicated to addressing external debt service obligations while K15.2 billion or 36.3 per cent will be dedicated to dismantling of fuel arrears. The Committee commends the Government for committing to dismantling the debt and clearing the arrears on fuel through cheaper concessional loans. The Committee is confident that this will free up resources for investment in other areas in need in the economy.

Mr Speaker, with regard to the source of the funds for the Supplementary Estimates, the Committee observed that K16.5 billion, representing 39.5 per cent, will be realised from domestic and external financing, K17.2 billion from anticipated savings by cutting costs on workshops, local and international travel, as well as other general Government operations. Furthermore, K4.3 billion is support from co-operating partners and K3.8 billion is additional revenues realised in the year, including dividends from the Bank of Zambia (BoZ), as well as money forfeited to the State from asset seizures.

Mr Speaker, while appreciating the Government’s effort in trying to realise K17.2 billion from savings, the Committee is concerned that actualising the source of financing may be a challenge due to high inflation and exchange rate volatility. However, the Committee urges the Government to put alternative measures in place as a plan B, should the original plan to realise the savings fail.

Madam Speaker, the Committee further recommends that the Government draws lessons from the experience of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic and the impact of climate change to build an economy that can sustain growth while enhancing resilience against external shocks.

Mr Speaker, the Committee noted the Government’s commitment to recapitalising Investrust Bank Plc and Mopani Copper Mines Plc. That is commendable, as it will not only retain jobs but also result in increased mining output, which will increase the Government’s revenue base.

Mr Speaker, as the Government endeavours to put in place measures to address the drought, the Committee is concerned at the low Budget releases for 2024. The low releases have been attributed to constrained domestic financing, primarily due to tight money market liquidity conditions and reduced economic activities caused by the energy crisis, which has negatively impacted revenue collection. The Committee urges the Government to address the status quo, which if not addressed, could negatively impact the response to the drought.

In conclusion, Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you and the Office of the Clerk for the support rendered throughout the Committee’s deliberations. I further wish to thank all the stakeholders who provided both oral and written submissions to the Committee.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister will only come back to wind up debate after the Committee has presented its report.

Mr Amutike (Mongu Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to place on record that the people of Mongu Central support the Supplementary Budget. I know that the Supplementary Budget is as a result of three factors: the drought that has hit the country, the debt which was mostly acquired by the failed Patriotic Front (PF) Government, and recapitalisation of selected state-owned enterprises (SOEs).

Mr Speaker, the Government has put in place social protection measures in order to protect the people of Zambia from the impact of the three factors I have mentioned. Therefore, the people of Mongu Central support the Supplementary Budget. As we run our Government, it is important that we are prudent and disciplined regarding the way we utilise our national resources.

Mr Speaker, the PF Government acquired a huge debt that it failed to pay back, hence the country is in this situation. The Government needed to manage debt restructuring because our hon. Colleagues in the previous Government failed to do it. I would like to thank the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, the New Dawn Government and the Cabinet for ensuring that the debt that was acquired is managed.

Mr Speaker, I am grateful for the Supplementary Budget because it will deal with a few arrears. While the PF Government subsidised fuel, it could not pay the money it owed fuel suppliers. For that reason, the Supplementary Budget is very necessary. Part of it will be used to dismantle fuel arrears or money owed to fuel suppliers. It is very important that even as the people cry for subsidies, they should know that the subsidies that were provided in the previous Government were not paid for. The previous Government owed a number of people huge sums of money; it merely survived on debt. One cannot survive on debt, one needs to be profitable. One needs to be financially prudent to survive on the money he or she is able to save.

Mr Speaker, I also recognise the fact that the Supplementary Budget has an allocation for social protection measures to protect the vulnerable. I know that the drought has affected the people of Zambia a lot. In Mongu Central, we could not host the Kuomboka Ceremony in 2023 because of the drought. Even this year, we had a makeshift Kuomboka because of the drought. Our farmers will have difficulties getting the required yield to sustain their families if the drought continues. I am glad that the caring Government has taken the responsibility to mitigate the effect of hunger on most of the people affected by the drought. The girl child will be able to attend school because of the social protection measures that the Government has put in place. There is also money for the Cash for Work programme in addition to Food for Work. I think that is what a responsible Government does; it looks at what can be done to help the people.

Mr Speaker, the people of Mongu Central are very happy with the Supplementary Budget because it shows that the Government is responsible and takes care of the people’s needs. I am very grateful that we have a President, hon. Members and a Government that cares for the people.

Interruptions

Mr Amutike: I am sure that the people of Kasenengwa District will also be very happy with the Supplementary Budget.

Mr Speaker, with those few remarks. I support the Supplementary Budget.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Standing Order No. 171(4) of 2024 instructs that when the House resolves into Committee, there should be only one debater per political party. So, I will call upon the hon. Member for Nalolo to debate. That is in order to avoid breaching the Standing Orders.

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Mr Speaker, indeed, the Standing Orders recognise other political parties in the House. I would like to thank the chairperson of the Expanded Planning and Budget Committee for his report, and the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for bringing the Supplementary Budget to the House.

Mr Speaker, one of the concerns the Committee has raised is that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning abrogated Section 44(3) of the Planning and Budgeting Act because it did not disclose the implications of output targets. I would like the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to explain the implications of moving money from key sectors. What is the economic impact of that? What are the administrative impacts regarding the adjustments that have been made?

Mr Speaker, one of the concerns I have is that 40 per cent of the Supplementary Budget is debt. I even raised that matter with Her Honour the Vice-President. K10 billion is external debt while K6 billion is local debt, which adds up to K16 billion. So, the country has raised its debt portfolio to US$1.6 billion. However, only 9 per cent of the Budget is financed by local revenues. Therefore, the Government must interrogate the loss of revenue. The Financial Intelligence Center (FIC) has reported how the country is losing a lot of revenue through tax evasion, so it is high time the hon. Minister interrogated our taxation policy for the mines.

Mr Speaker, we need the Supplementary Budget because of the drastic effects of climate change. That is understandable, but a large part of the 2024 National Budget of K177.9 billion was allocated to social sector spending on programmes such as the Social Cash Transfer, the Food Security Pack (FSP) and the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). People do not graduate from those programmes. When you look at the figures before FISP and post-FISP, you will see that the maize harvest in the country has remained the same. There has been no improvement. Therefore, the Government must begin to interrogate why it continues to implement FISP. I am happy that the Government policy on supporting farmers is changing to loans. That is what the Government should do. Even on the Social Cash Transfer, there is no mechanism for identifying the vulnerable yet viable beneficiaries of the programme. The Auditor-General’s report revealed that some civil servants get inputs from the FSP and also get the Social Cash Transfer. So,we need a system that can address that problem. The Ministry of Technology and Science can help us to create a system that can detect beneficiaries of FISP, the Social Cash Transfer and the FSP. That way, we will know which people are on particular programmes. That system is not there now. So, the well-intentioned social protection programmes of the Government are being abused and the country is losing funds through them.

Mr Speaker, it is also commendable that the Government has added resources in the Supplementary Budget for the Keeping Girls in School (KGS) programme. That will help us decrease the school dropout rates for girls. The Government has also included resources for the Food for Work programme. The Ministry of Finance and National Planning must conduct an assessment of the vulnerable people who will benefit from the programme, and the food should go to them, not to everyone.

Mr Speaker, we need to understand that the Supplementary Budget will increase our debt portfolio. Meanwhile, records show that there is increased tax evasion in the country. So, we need to strengthen our tax policies and ensure that over 70 per cent of our Budget is funded with local resources. Otherwise, even the next Government will do debt restructuring because the debt portfolio will increase.

Mr Speaker, with those few remarks, I support the Supplementary Estimates No.1 of 2024.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

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The House adjourned at 1142 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 9^thJuly, 2024.

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