Friday, 28^th June, 2024

The House met at 0900 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM SPEAKER

PUPILS FROM AUMAP ACADEMY PRIMARY SCHOOL

Madam Speaker: Hon Members, I wish to recognise the presence in the Public Gallery of pupils and teachers from Aumap Academy Primary School in Siankope Village, Choma District. On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

DELEGATION FROM MOZAMBIQUE

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to acquaint the House with the presence in the Speaker’s Gallery of the following hon. Ministers, hon. Members of Parliament and Senior Government Officials from the Republic of Mozambique:

Hon. Veronica Nataniel Macamo Dlhovo – Minister of Foreign Affairs and Co-operation;

Hon. Ivete Joaquim Maibaze – Minister of Lands and Environment;Hon. Carlos Zacarias – Minister of Energy and Minerals Resources;

Hon. Mateus Magala – Minister of Transport and Communications;

Hon. Ludovina Bernardo – Deputy Minister of Industry and Trade;

H.E, Monica Patricio Clemente Mussa – High Commissioner of the Republic of Mozambique to the Republic of Zambia;

Hon. Feliz Avelino Silvia – Member of Parliament;

Hon. Maria Ines Ntseka – Member of Parliament;

Hon. Mohamed Da Costa Ali Yassine – Member of Parliament; and

Hon. Silverio Pedro Eugenio Samuel – Member of Parliament.

Also, in our midst, in the Public Galleries, are other senior Government officials from the Republic of Mozambique and staff from the High Commission of Mozambique in Zambia. The hon. Ministers, hon. Members of Parliament and senior Government officials are part of His Excellency, Mr Filipe Jacinto Nyusi, President of the Republic of Mozambique’s delegation to Zambia.

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I wish to receive our distinguished guests and warmly welcome them into our midst.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

HIS EXCELLENCY, MR FILIPE JACINTO NYUSI’S ADDRESS

Madam Speaker: Hon Members, as the House is aware, His Excellency, Mr Filipe Jacinto Nyusi, the President of the Republic of Mozambique, will address the House later today. His Excellency the President will use the Portuguese Language to address the House. In that regard, arrangements have been made for simultaneous interpretation from the Portuguese language into the English Language to enable hon. Members to follow the proceedings. Interpretation gadgets have been placed beside the Bosch Multimedia Chamber System in front of each hon. Member. Hon. Members are advised to use Channel One for the English Language.  On the gadget, the button for adjusting the volume is on the left side, while the button for the channel selection is on the right side. Hon. Members who may need assistance should indicate to the Clerks-at-the-Table.

I thank you.

TIME OF THE PRESIDENT’S ADDRESS

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Mozambique, Mr Filipe Jacinto Nyusi, will arrive at 1000 hours to address the House.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, business will be suspended at 0945 hours to enable me to go and receive the President of the Republic of Mozambique. In the meantime, we will proceed with the business on the Order Paper.

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URGENT MATTERS WITHOUT NOTICE

Madam Speaker: I have seen that there are indications already. Are we jumping the gun?

ICT technicians, clear the indication list so that we follow the order of the business. We are starting with urgent matters without notice. If there are no indications under the segment then we will proceed.

Hon. Members indicated for The Vice-President’s Question Time.

Madam Speaker: I have not yet announced the start of that segment. What is– (laughs)

There were no indications for Urgent Matters without Notice.

Madam Speaker: Let us make progress.

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THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Mr Chilangwa (Kawambwa): Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, the people of Zambia are alive to the fact that they were promised a reduction in the price of fuel some time back, …

Hon. Members: Question!

Mr Chilangwa: … from K16 to K13, based on plans to remove the K3 variation, which was being pocketed by middlemen. They were promised that a 50 kg bag of mealie meal would be sold at a reasonable price. The people were also promised better foreign exchange rates. They were promised many things, which have not materialised after three years. When will Her Honour the Vice-President apologise to the people of Zambia through this august House?

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, when is the Government going to apologise for hoodwinking the people of Zambia and for the failure to fulfil its promises?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, the hon. Member is asking questions as if he has come from outer space.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I can put the question the hon. Member has asked in one sentence. He is asking about the cost of living. He does not have to list the items. He started by talking about the price of fuel. This is not a pretentious Government. It found issues that his Government left behind.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The President: Madam Speaker, people must realise and remember where we are coming from, as a nation. The Government made promises to the people, but the figures the hon. Member keeps dreaming about are his. When one makes promises, it is normally done with all things being equal. Everything exists in an atmosphere or environment. This Government found that all the issues that the hon. Member has highlighted were in an imagined environment. When members of the previous Government talk about the issue of fuel prices, the question is: Did that Government pay for the fuel that was supplied?

Hon. UPND Members: Zero!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government was pretending that it was buying fuel for the people at a cheaper price when in fact it was piling up debt.

Hon. UPND Members: US$800 million.

The Vice-President: The PF Government left US$800 million in debt.

Mr Kapyanga: Naikaba!

Laughter

The Vice-President: I am responding to the hon. Member.

Madam Speaker, the previous Government did not pay for the fuel that was supplied. While this responsible Government has tried to reverse some of the issues that were left by the previous Government, it has also had to deal with that situation. That is not the way you look after a family. The Zambian family wants reality. The previous Government kept ruling in the manner it did until the economy became a junk economy. It made decisions based on political expedience rather than reality. Hon. Members of the former Government want to blame the cost of living on the current Government. If the current Government had not come into power, where would the country be today? With the debt that was accrued through the irresponsibility of the previous Government, where would we be?

Madam Speaker, if you would not stop me, I would say that that situation qualified as theft, but I do not know whether that would be the right word to use. I do not know what word to use. What do you call a situation in which one borrows without the intention of paying back that money?

Hon. UPND Members: Theft!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the previous Government over-borrowed. Hon. Members of the former Ruling Party should just admit that they destroyed the economy.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member spoke about the price of mealie meal as well. The people of Kawambwa, where the hon. Member comes from, are the majority maize producers. They have benefitted from the cost adjustment of maize. The farmers are the main beneficiaries. Surely, we did not want the farmers to continue getting nothing for their produce. Most of us, hon. Members, in this august House represent people in the rural areas. We should talk to them. The farmers worked hard, but they did not benefit from anything over and over. This Government said that the producers should be given what is beneficial to them. That is the way the economy should be handled. You start with the production side of the economy. This Government dealt with that.

Madam Speaker, other than the drought the country is experiencing, we would have had a situation in which farmers would no longer grow maize because they were not getting anything for the crops that they produced. That is why the Government has made adjustments. We are not sitting back doing nothing. We will continue to work hard to improve the other side of the economy so that the people are empowered. Job creation is still underway. The Government has challenges because of the drought situation, but it is still working. The hon. Member stood on the Floor of this House to talk about the things that the Government promised to fulfil. Can he honestly talk about the exchange rate? Let us not pretend. The exchange rate was already in a bad state. When His Excellency the President, Dr Hakainde Hichilema, came into power, the promise about the exchange rate was fulfilled because the exchange rate of the Zambia Kwacha to the United States (US) Dollar decreased. That is a fact. Then, indeed, the exchange rate started increasing again. Had the exchange rate not decreased, what would have happened?

Mr Kang’ombe: Ati 1500 hours!

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, let us listen to the answers, please. Can we have some order.

Your Honour, you may continue.

The President: Madam Speaker, the Government appreciates the state of the cost of living of the people of Zambia. However, that is the reality of what we found when we got into power and what was happening around the globe.

People also want to talk about the issue of electricity. Madam Speaker, the previous Government had a simple solution. It told us to go to the Kariba Dam or something like that. I will not finish that statement. I think, everyone remembers the solution that was given.

Mr Mabumba interjected.

The Vice-President: Hon. Member for Mwense, do you want me to finish explaining the previous Government’s solution? I will not.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the previous Government told the people of Zambia to go to the Kariba Dam. The current electricity supply situation is worse. Even if all the hon. Members went, there would still be no water.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, let us all face the reality as we are trying to tackle the cost of living. The country has debt that it has been struggling to pay off. Nonetheless, with the leadership of His Excellence the President and Hon. Dr Musokotwane, the country has reached the level we are at presently. Restructuring the debt will help the country.

Did the hon. Member talk about electricity?

Interruptions

The Vice-President: I do not hammer. I just tell the truth.

Madam Speaker, maybe, politicking is good on an anthill. However, facts should be told in this House. The Government has done a lot of work. The country would be in a mess if the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government did not come into power, and stay on top of things. The Government will continue to work on the economy, which is why it is bringing in investments. There were no investments made previously, yet the hon. Member wants to ask about the cost of living. Hon. Members of the former Ruling Party even ask why certain projects have not been completed, yet construction of those projects was suspended during their reign.

I thank you. Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwene (Mangango): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, on behalf of the good people of Mangango, I would like to ask about the work-in-progress on the Katunda/Lukulu/Watopa Road.

Hon. Member: Mumbezhi!

Mr Mwene: Mumbezhi, yes.

Madam Speaker, it is the road that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government lied to the people of Mangango about. The Government then said that it was going to tar it, but it failed to do so. The PF Government even won a parliamentary seat in Mangango based on the premise that it would tar the Katunda/Lukulu/Watopa Road, which is very important. The road services various areas like Mangango, Lwampa, Lukulu, Mitete, Mumbezhi and Watopa. The good people of Mangango have even lost interest in the political party called the PF because of its dishonesty, …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwene: … mistrust and not following –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, can you get to the question.

Mr Mwene: Madam Speaker, thank you for your guidance.

Madam Speaker, at the moment, the Road Development Agency (RDA) has even advertised for constructors to start working on that road. So, when will the construction of that road begin, which was not worked on by the failed PF Government?

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Please, hon. Members, we have limited time. So, let us ensure that we ask our questions precisely and to the point so that we can allow as many hon. Members as possible to ask questions.

The Vice-President cleared her throat.

Interruptions

The Vice President: Yes. I will cough.

Madam Speaker, the issue of roads is something else. Those of us who used to listen to the proceedings in the previous House will remember that the issue of roads was one of the things that was a success story for the former regime, yet we hear cries from every part of the country about the need for road works up-to-date. The cries are not only about the Katunda/Lukulu/Watopa Road. That is the reality.

Hon. Member: Mporokoso!

The Vice-President: Somebody is shouting out Mporokoso and Kaputa. Sometimes people will shout out something because they want to paint a picture about an area where roads were done, yet nothing was done. People wanted others to believe that they were doing something. That is why we have found ourselves with many roads that are in a deplorable state and with a lot of debt. However, even with those conditions, I can assure the hon. Member for Mangango that the contract will be given for works on the road. He has taken note that there was an advertisement placed regarding contractors for the works. The little progress we are making will grow. I know that economically we are stressed, but every bit of effort we are making goes towards serving the people. In fact, the works on the road that are being advertised will start from Tateyoyo right through to Katunda and Lukulu.

Mr Mutelo: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Indeed, the people of Mitete must celebrate.

Madam Speaker, this Government is committed, and the works will be done despite whatever we are going through.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon UPND Members: Hear! Hear!

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, the people of Zambia appreciate the ambitious business programme that Zambia Airways is carrying out. The airline recently announced new routes, including Dar es Salaam and Nairobi. However, there are concerns about the quality of aeroplanes that are currently being used. I am sure that the Government is aware that there was a distress report last week about a situation in which an aeroplane had to turn back ten minutes or twenty minutes after take-off. What are some of the immediate measures the Government will implement to create the much-needed confidence in that volatile sector?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the hon. Member for Kantanshi who sees the business environment that this Government has created.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member has talked about the quality of aeroplanes in aviation, except that I am not sure about the details of the incident he has described. However, the fact is that there may or may not have been a mishap, unless he found out that the issue was the quality of the aeroplane. An incident of that nature can be attributed to anything. It could be human error or something else. Things happen even in a car. In this case, the question of whether it is the quality of the aeroplane can be looked into. There is no reason we should be acquiring aeroplanes that are of poor quality.

Madam Speaker, I cannot answer that question. One would have to verify that what happened when the aeroplane took off and later landed was because of the poor quality of the aeroplane. It could have just been something technical that was overlooked. Nevertheless, if such a thing happened, we thank God that the people landed without calamity. I do not have the facts about that incident.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, we have seen democracy growing in Zambia. For instance, we can see it in how the Former President is trying to change the political landscape, and enjoy the freedom of expression and the freedom of assembly. During the Patriotic Front (PF) regime, the Government did not give that kind of freedom to the Zambians who were in the Opposition. We see that same kind of exercise of democracy and freedom of expression extended to South Africa where the Former President of that country changed the political landscape a few weeks before the country’s general elections, which led to the formation of the Government of National Unity. Now, the Government of National Unity is unable to choose its cabinet leaders because of indecision.

Madam Speaker, what lessons can Zambia learn from South Africa in the event that we have that kind of exercise of freedom of expression, and people change the landscape in the political arena overnight? What lessons can we learn from the South African Elections, which led to the formation of the Government of National Unity and, subsequently, failure to choose a cabinet because of indecision?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I am failing to put things together because the hon. Member’s question involves South Africa and the issues it is currently going through, that is the efforts to form the Government of National Unity. I think that is what he has said.

Madam Speaker, I would not want to discuss another nation. However, as Zambians, when we talk about democracy, I think, we have one of the most thriving democracies with our system. We are not exactly like the South Africans. Even their electoral process is different from ours. However, we have enough safeguards under the first past post system, which we use unlike theirs. We have all the freedoms that we need. We are a democratic Government and we will ensure that the democratic tenets are followed to the letter. Let us continue enjoying democracy with responsibility. That is all I can say. Whether it is freedom of expression, people speak freely. Whether it is freedom of gathering, people gather freely. Sometimes people can be at a meeting but say that they are not at a gathering. However, they are gathering. People in that instance are speaking from a gathering, and that becomes politicking. This Government will not squeeze anybody. Everybody is responsible. That is what democracy means. You have your freedom, but remember that the other person has freedom as well. There is also the issue of our security, as a whole. I am proud to be a Zambian; to be a part of the democratic state that we are. Everybody must enjoy their space. This Government will not tamper with anybody. The Zambian people know who to listen to. Sometimes, certain situations create entertainment, other times they are serious matters. At the end of the day, our people know exactly what they want.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Most appreciated, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, on the Floor of this august House, we lamented and advised the Government to not entertain the thought of exporting the maize stocks that it found, which had been put in storage for about three years because of the partial droughts that we had experienced in the past. We certainly agree with the President when he says that, indeed, hunger can be biblical. We were assured by our colleagues, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry that we were food secure. The challenges we are going through could have been avoided if this House had performed its role of ensuring that people’s food security was guaranteed. We do not even know where the Government is going to get grain for the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) to distribute to the people.

Madam Speaker, does Her Honour the Vice-President still think that it was wise for the two ministries mentioned to deplete the subsidised maize stock from our farmers that the Government inherited by exporting it when we did not know how the weather patterns were going to unfold?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu for that important question except that it is a repetition.

Madam Speaker, that question has been asked on the Floor of this House many times. It has been responded to by myself, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and, I think, the rest. I can repeat the answers that we have been giving.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member has said that this Government sold off the maize that was in storage. I think that is the first point he made. One cannot call something theirs when he or she has not paid for it.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

The Vice-President: That is the truth. That is what I know –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

The Vice-President: The hon. Member was once a Minister. He knows that one has to speak from what he or she knows. If he knows something else, maybe, he needs to bring out that aspect. When we came into power, there was maize in storage that was not paid for. The farmers were complaining, even through the hon. Members of this august House. So, why would we call that maize ours? The Government then was storing up other people’s maize.

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

The Vice-President: This Government, which did not find money in the coffers, had no option but –

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapyanga: Sell the maize and then what?

The Vice-President: Hon. Member, there was –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, at this rate we will not make much progress. Can we listen to Her Honour the Vice-President. I am sure, you want to ask more questions. Let us listen so that we go through this segment quickly.

Your Honour, you may continue.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, it is on record, as far as I am informed, that the maize that we had stored up had not been paid for, and there was the need to pay for it. We were not going to punish our peasant farmers by not paying them. The sale was not done deliberately to acquire money. It was done because the farmers had not been paid. What else could we have done?

Hon. PF Members: Store it for three years.

The Vice-President: As far as I know, there was no maize stored up that could have lasted three years.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: That is true.

Madam Speaker, we do not even have storage in the first place. That is the reality. If you look at our resilience in terms of the drought response, we have had to put up an amount towards the construction of storage warehouses. Zambia does not have the capacity to store maize even for two years or three years. So, where did the previous Government store that maize? If people are not aware they should find out. We do not have the storage. If we do not have storage, where did we store the maize for three years? That is what I know. Any other information would be made available.

Mr Kapyanga: Mwalasebanapofye!

The Vice-President: Awe, nshilesebana. Ndelanda efyo nasangile.

Madam Speaker: Order!

The Vice-President: Sorry, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Please, can we maintain order.

Hon. Members, you are aware of what the rules state. You cannot debate while seated. Let us remain silent as the questions are being answered, and let us maintain the honour and dignity of the House.

I do not know if you have finished answering the question, Your Honour.

The Vice-President indicated dissent.

Hon. Members: Hammer!

The Vice-President: These people have hammers.

Madam Speaker, I do not have hammers to hammer people with. I give them what I know as facts. If people feel that my facts are untrue, they can say exactly what they know. They can tell us where the maize that was going to be stored up for three years was. As far as we know, we have realised –

Madam Speaker, as the entire Southern African Development Community (SADC) – I speak for the community – we do not have storage to keep grain for so many years. The situation can be a crisis. In case God gives us rain, which he will because he is faithful, and we grow enough maize, we must find the space to store it for many years so that when we have a situation like we do, at least there will be enough that we would have stored up.

Madam Speaker, we need the wisdom of Joseph. Let us look at that. The issue that the hon. Member has raised about being food secure, as I said in the beginning, is important. All things being equal, the way we plan each year, we always have grain kept aside as a strategic plan, which is normally 500,000 metric tonnes. That is what we do. We offload and store up new stock all the time to prepare for any eventuality. However, we have never prepared for two complete consecutive years. Currently, what we are consuming is not the recently harvested maize. There was a plan in place to have enough stock for this year. By now, we should have been harvesting and restocking in preparation for next year. Unfortunately, the drought happened. So, to ask if the decision to sell the maize at that time was wise, we do not have the wisdom of God to know about yesterday, today and forever. From what we knew then, that was wisdom so that we could continue farming enough grain for the people and stocking up. We are working on finding resources to construct storage facilities so that when we have food, we can store it up for longer than just a few months.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: As we balance the debates, let us also listen to the female hon. Members.

Hon. Member for Kabwe Central, you may proceed.

Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to ask Her Honour the Vice-President a question.

Madam Speaker, the people of Kabwe are happy, so far, with the construction works on the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriageway. Barely a month after commissioning the works, we have seen a lot of progress. However, I am surprised to hear people who are anti-development demonising the fact that the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) and the Workers Compensation Fund Control Board (WCFCB) pumped money into that important project. The people of Zambia and Kabwe, in particular, want to know whether the money that NAPSA and the WCFBC put into that project was free or it is going to benefit those institutions and the people of Zambia.

Ms Tambatamba interjected.

The Vice President: (laughs) The hon. Ministers have to whisper the information to me.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I believe that even as the hon. Member was asking the question, everybody here, in this House, already knew the answer. The answer is not only with me, or the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, it is with everybody. Even the hon. Member for Nkana can give the answer to that question right now. Only the anti-development supporters would be against that kind of investment.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, investment is an investment. We have to invest. From its inception, the National Pensions Scheme Authority (NAPSA) has had an investment portfolio. I was once a Minister of Labour, and even at that time the authority had investments. Why do we want to continuously externalise investments? Remember that NAPSA funds can be used to invest in off-shore prospects. So, why do that when that money can be invested within the country? Investment means that the prospect will bear profits. Any pension scheme is not only supposed to depend on its members’ contributions. It should also invest the money so that the money grows and the pension profiles of the beneficiaries grow as well. In that way, the authority can look after its people, and they, in turn, can also look after their people. Anybody who is against such an investment is truly anti-development. We will continue to use our money to support the development of our country, including investing in energy. We cannot sit back and lament without doing something that we can. That investment in road infrastructure is the way to go. We are going in the right direction. Development will come.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker gave the Floor to the hon. Member for Milanzi.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: I thought she had indicated. I was looking at the indications made by female hon. Members on the Bosche House System. Since there are no other indications from the female hon. Members, we move on to Independent hon. Members.

Hon. Member for Nyimba, you may proceed.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, yesterday my brother from Shangombo tried to vindicate himself. So, I am also trying to do the same today.

Madam Speaker, a Catholic church in Chamilala Ward in Nyimba has been buying state-of-the-art equipment for St Joseph’s Clinic for the past five years. The clinic’s management has been asking for power supply connections from ZESCO Limited for the last three years, and so have the people of Kacholola. The hon. Minister of Energy issued a statement in Parliament to the effect that by December last year, the authority responsible would make the connections. I know that the hon. Minister is hardworking and tries his level best.

Madam Speaker, on behalf of the good people of Nyimba, I would like to find out when the people of Chamilala, especially St Joseph’s Clinic, and Kacholola, will be connected to the national electricity grid. I understand that we do not have sufficient power supply in the country at the moment, but when are those areas going to be connected? The population and infrastructure in those areas are more than that of other constituencies that are already connected to the national electricity grid.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 0945 hours until 1030 hours

His Excellency, Mr Filipe Jacinto Nyusi, President of the Republic of Mozambique entered the Assembly Chamber escorted by Madam Speaker.

(Assembly resumed)

The President (Mr Filipe Jacinto Nyusi): Thank you very much.

I do not know whether I should deliver my speech in English or Portuguese.

Madam Speaker: Portuguese is fine, Your Excellency. If you are okay with that.

The President: I can see that many people here, in this House, come from Mozambique.

Laughter

The President: From Tete.

Laughter

The President: Native speakers of ciNyanja and ciChewa.

Hon. Members: ciChewa!

The President: I will try to deliver the speech in English today.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The President: Your Excellency, Nelly Mutti, Speaker of the Zambian National Assembly; Hon. Malungo Chisangano, First Deputy Speaker of the National Assembly; Hon. Moses Moyo, Second Deputy Speaker of the National Assembly; Hon. Stanford Mulusa, Chief Whip of the Ruling Party Bench.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The President: Hon. Robert Chabinga, the Leader of the Opposition, …

Hon. PF Members: Question!

The President: Distinguished Members of the Zambian National Assembly;

Distinguished Members of the National Assembly of the Republic of Mozambique;

Hon. Members of the Cabinets of the Republic of Zambia and the Republic of Mozambique;

Distinguished Guests;

Ladies and Gentlemen:

I am highly honoured and grateful for this opportunity and privilege to address this august National Assembly of Zambia. Through you, respected representatives of the people, my people and I extend with appreciation our greetings to the Zambian people.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The President: Allow me to also convey warm and fraternal greetings from approximately 33 million Mozambicans to their brothers and sisters in Zambia, deservedly represented by you, hon. Members.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The President: We are paying this State Visit at the invitation of my brother, His Excellency, Hakainde Hichilema, the President of the Republic of Zambia, to strengthen the friendly and co-operative relations between our countries and peoples. On our visit, we are accompanied by a delegation from the National Assembly of the Republic of Mozambique, which consists of – I ask them to be seen –:

1. Feliz Avelino Sílvia, representing the ruling FRELIMO;

1. Maria Inês Ntseka, representing FRELIMO;

1. Mohamed da Costa Ali Yassine, from the Opposition RENAMO; and

1. Silvério Pedro Eugénio Samuel, from the opposition Mozambique Democratic Movement (MDM).

The President: Excellencies, we have come to this National Assembly to pay tribute to the people of Zambia for their commitment to building the rule of law based on the values and principles of democracy and justice in the plural society, that is Zambia. Thus, making it one of the good examples in the Southern African region of the vitality of multi-party democracy.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The President: Hon. Members and Excellencies, our presence in this august House of the people re-affirms the vitality of the historical and cultural ties that bind the people of Mozambique and Zambia. In fact, when the then Northern Rhodesia, now Zambia, became independent, the late Former President Kenneth Kaunda turned this country into a safe rear-guard for the liberation movements in Southern Africa.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The President: In the specific case of Mozambique, Zambia welcomed many nationalists who were in transit to Tanzania and the interior of Mozambique, during the struggle for independence. That is why, on 7^th September, 1974, the Mozambicans chose the City of Lusaka for the signing of the Accords through which the colonial state formally recognised the Mozambican people's right to self-determination.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The President: Madam Speaker; Ladies and Gentlemen, since the proclamation of national independence forty-nine years ago, on 25^th June, 1975, Mozambique has continued on the path of building a democratic state based on social justice for the prosperity of the Mozambicans. Our unicameral National Assembly, made up of 250 Members of Parliament, currently has three Parliamentary Benches, namely FRELIMO, RENAMO and MDM, all represented here, in this House, by the Members of Parliament I introduced at the beginning of my speech. Our National Assembly is also balanced in terms of gender representation. In addition to being chaired by a woman, the representation of women in the Mozambican Parliament is 43 per cent.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The President: Hon. Members, Mozambique is relatively stable, taking into account terrorist activities in the northern part of the country, and it continues to take visible steps towards sustainable and inclusive development. However, the Government and the people of Mozambique remain firm in continuing with the efforts to seek definitive peace as well as the structural reforms that are necessary for the country to remain viable and attractive to domestic and foreign private investment, a necessary condition for the creation of the jobs that our people, particularly young people, so dearly need.

Regarding the internal peace process, the Government and RENAMO reached an agreement for definitive peace in 2019 based on dialogue, trust and mutual respect between the parties. Within the framework of that agreement, in June last year we completed the disarmament and demobilisation of approximately 5,200 RENAMO guerrillas and the establishment of the re-integration pensions of the last 900 beneficiaries is in the final phase.

The fight against terrorists in Cabo Delgado has made significant progress. Our defence and security forces, with the support of local forces, and friendly forces of the Southern African Development Community (SADC) Mission in Mozambique (SAMIM) and Rwanda have been destroying the terrorists' bases, and putting their ringleaders and operatives out of action. Even with the withdrawal of SAMIM, to be completed by 15^th July, 2024, our resolve to fight terrorism remains unwavering as we are right in our belief that it is our primary responsibility, as Mozambicans, to defend every inch of our territory.

As part of the economic reforms, Mozambique, like Zambia, is committed to deepening the process of decentralisation as a factor in reducing regional imbalances by maximising local potential. We commend this National Assembly for the approval of the enactment of the Constituency Development Fund Act in April, 2024, that reinforces the decentralisation, management and control of financial resources and responsibilities at the district level. Recently, our country decided to further deepen decentralisation through the introduction of the new provincial decentralised governance model through the revision of the Constitution in 2018, as part of the dialogue for peace between the Government and RENAMO. The great innovation of the model is the election of provincial governors by the lists, coalitions of parties or contesting groups of citizens. We believe that, as a sovereign country, we have the right and duty to build our governance model. We are not afraid to make mistakes. We are always open to correcting those mistakes until we reach the governance model that best suits our reality and the development needs of our country. Therefore, respected representatives of our sisterly people, let us not fear making mistakes when we want to find the best solution for the well-being of the people we represent.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The President: hon. Members, be open to overcoming mistakes together based on dialogue between brothers and sisters of the same homeland. As an African proverb teaches us, ‘To get lost, is to learn a new way.’ That means that getting lost along the way is learning a new way. Despite adversities of different natures, we, in Mozambique, remain committed to the path of choosing to build a democratic society. That is why since 1994, we have not failed to hold multi-party general and local elections. As part of strengthening our democracy, in October last year, we held the sixth local government elections in sixty-five municipalities, and in October this year, we will hold the seventh General Presidential and Parliamentary Elections and the fourth elections for the provincial assemblies. Fortunately, I will not run. Thus, fulfilling my full duty to abide by the Constitution of the Republic after my second term.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The President: Madam Speaker, hon. Members and your Excellences, before concluding, I would like to leave you with three important messages. Firstly, we are here before the distinguished hon. Members of the National Assembly to, once again, recognise and thank the people of Zambia for the friendship and solidarity they have always shown for the just cause of freedom and peace for the people of the Southern Africa region and, in particular the Mozambican people.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The President: Secondly, we are here to re-affirm that Mozambique will always stand by the brotherly people of Zambia on this journey and now, for the economic development of our countries jointly harnessing the comparative advantages in the areas of mining, agriculture, transport and logistics, energy, shared water courses, environment and trade, among other areas.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The President: Thirdly, to achieve the prosperity we desire for future generations, our countries must persist in consolidating a more just United Nations (UN), cultivating reconciliation, tolerance and constructive debate through assemblies or parliaments and other platforms for democratic dialogue at different levels.

Madam Speaker, I conclude by asking hon. Members of the National Assembly to take to their constituencies this humble message of eternal friendship and fraternity of the Mozambicans to the sisters and brothers in Zambia. Zikomo Kwambiri.

I thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The President left the Assembly Chamber.

Madam Speaker took the Chair.

____________

THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

(Debate resumed)

Madam Speaker: When business was suspended, the House was considering The Vice-President’s Question Time, and the hon. Member for Nyimba had just finished asking a question.

Your Honour, you may proceed.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, indeed, when business was suspended, I was about to respond to the question asked by the hon. Member for Nyimba who wanted to know when some areas in his constituency would be connected to the national electricity grid. He talked about Kacholola, St Joseph’s Mission Hospital, Chamilala, in general, and the surrounding areas. This is an important question. The hon. Member also said that he wanted to vindicate himself and look good to the people of Nyimba. I think that is important because it is part of politics.

Madam Speaker, as you are aware, this question is specific. It is difficult for me to respond to questions about specific places. So, I would not know. These questions ought to be directed to the hon. Minister of Energy. I can also be given time to find out. Questions of that nature are directed to the substantive hon. Minister.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simushi (Sikongo): Madam Speaker, thank you for this opportunity given to me to ask Her Honour the Vice-President a question.

Madam Speaker, there is no doubt that the challenges that this country is facing, to a large extent, are due to the maladministration of the previous Administration.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simushi: Unfortunately, we have seen that people who retired from politics are now attempting to get back into that space. With their return, we have also seen a resurgence of ma panga and violence.

Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Administration through President Hichilema has done such a wonderful thing in the way it has handled the economy. That shows that it is putting the Zambian people first unlike putting its pockets first. My question is: What measures, both short-term and medium-term, has the Government put in place to alleviate the drought situation that we are faced with as well as the energy problem that the country has?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member gave a preamble about the previous regime. I do not think that is something we can debate. It is straightforward.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the question is about what measures we have put in place, both in the short-term and medium-term, to mitigate the drought and also the energy situation. I believe that the Zambian people, through this august House, have been following what has been happening or what we want to do and what we, as the Government, are doing.

Madam Speaker, it is important for me to give a bit of an overview of what we are faced with. This nation is faced with an unprecedented drought. Literally half the country did not receive enough rainfall for any kind of production. In view of that, we have found ourselves with 9.8 million people who have lost a kind of livelihood. Out of that number, 6.6 million people are faced with severe loss of livelihoods. That is what it means. Therefore, this Government has a responsibility and duty to look after 6.6 million people until another harvest time comes around. Harvest time only comes around in May of the following year after the farming season. From now on, in fact, for the past two months, the Government has had to step in.

Madam Speaker, that is why in this House we cannot answer individual Parliamentarians' questions about what we are doing about the drought situation in their constituencies. We are handling the situation generally. Eighty-five districts have been affected, and the Government is looking after the people in all those districts. We need above K34 billion, which is to the tune of US$1.4 billion, for us to mitigate the drought. It is a lot of money. Of course, there was some money re-allocated in the Budget for the drought response efforts, as the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has since brought out a redesigned Budget. The ministry has had to look into that and take some of the resources towards drought response. It is a long statement and time is running out. I do not know how else to put my explanation because the question is loaded.

Madam Speaker, I will just say that this Government is approaching the drought situation from a two-pronged view. Firstly, we have to ensure that people have food. As it was said earlier, we may not have enough food for the people. However, the Government has gone as far as importing maize, which is the staple food, for the 6.6 million people. We are working with Tanzania. We believe that before the end of next week, a contract would have been signed to that effect. That is how serious this Government is.

Madam Speaker, we also realise that other than food that people need to survive and sustain life, there is a second part, which is about creating resilience. In creating resilience, one part of recovery is water. Water becomes critical. This Government, in addressing the issues, has started with food; maize. We will ensure that there is maize. That is why we are importing maize directly using Government-to-Government initiatives. We are also working on water provision.

Madam Speaker, let me use this platform to call upon the hon. Members of Parliament in the eighty-five affected districts to find time next week to meet with me so that we look into the situation in the affected districts. We need to provide water. The Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation is working to ensure that plans are formulated because the water levels underground have gone down. So, shallow wells are drying up. We are moving in to alleviate the situation. We have planned for that. In creating resilience, we have planned for the construction of dam structures so that when the Lord, God, gives us rainfall, we can use them for crop production. We are also encouraging our people to grow crops through irrigation. Wetland farming is encouraged as well. Hon. Members can also undertake farming even on a 50x50 piece of land because they have the capacity.

Madam Speaker, the approach we are using towards the energy situation is that, firstly, one cannot invest in hydro-energy generation with two-year or three-year projections. It is a long-term investment. Even if one were to invest in hydro-power generation at present, it would almost be impossible to generate power because the water levels have gone down. That is why this Government has opened up the space in the sector for alternative power generation solutions. One of those is solar energy production. We can use solar energy in our homes. We should have solar provisions, particularly as hon. Members. That will mean releasing some of the power we use in our homes or farms back to the national electricity grid for other sectors like the productive sector and the businesses to use.

Madam Speaker, that is the briefest way I could put the response. I need to have an entire statement prepared on this issue. Otherwise, that is what your Government is doing. The hon. Member asked an important question such that it took me almost all the time that has remained in the segment to respond. Madam Speaker will give me a bonus of further questions today after this one.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Unfortunately, we still have one minute before the segment ends. So, I will call upon the hon. Member for Nalolo.

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, a few weeks ago, the Secretary-to-the-Cabinet made some comments on civil servants. He said that the process of disciplining or letting go of erring civil servants must be done by their respective ministries. My question is: What is the status of the over 300 employees who are in holding under the Cabinet Office? Has the Government dealt with them exclusively or are they still drawing salaries without working?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I think, this question is a repetition. It should be him who asked a question of a similar nature.

Madam Speaker, when I came here, in this House, not directly but I refuted the issue of the 300 workers because I gave figures on those who were in holding positions. They were not 300. I brought the responses to the House. I am sure, if the hon. Member goes through the records, he will find the answers. As far as my office is informed, they are not 300.

Mr Chitotela interjected.

The Vice-President: Former Hon. Minister Chitotela, that is the answer I have.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, discipline must be followed. Hon. Members are aware that the Government has re-drawn the Disciplinary Code so that people who commit offences are not placed in holding positions. Maybe, I also need to clarify that not everybody in holding a position is in that state because they have committed an offence or are going through a disciplinary action. Sometimes it is a matter of movement. Some people are in holding positions while they wait to be placed in another position. Discipline must be dealt with, not having that officer placed in a holding position.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

_______

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1100 hours until 1120 hours.

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

US$72 BILLION PROPOSED INVESTMENT BY VIET-ZAM DIVERSIFIED CO-OPERATION LIMITED

The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Chipoka Mulenga): Mr Speaker, thank you for permitting me to deliver this ministerial statement on the issue of the Viet-Zam Diversified Co-operation Limited.

Mr Speaker, I stand here, on this Floor, today to address you on a matter that has generated a lot of public interest and debate, that is the proposed US$72 billion investment in rice production in Luapula Province, the Northern Province and Muchinga Province by Viet-Zam Diversified Co-operation Limited. I wish to take this opportunity to provide some clarifications and more information, which hopefully will put the matter to rest.

Mr Speaker, as hon. Members may be aware, the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry is responsible for administering policies as well as regulating activities in the trade and industrial sectors to enhance the sector's contribution to sustainable socio-economic growth and development for the benefit of the people of Zambia. One of the specific functions that the ministry is responsible for, as contained in Government Gazette Notice No. 1123 of 2021, is the Investment Policy. In that regard, the ministry, through the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA), which is the sole agency of the Government responsible for promoting and facilitating trade and investment in Zambia, receives investment proposals from a broad range of local and foreign investors. When investment proposals are submitted, they are appraised to determine whether they can be granted investment licences in their proposed areas of investment based on established investment criteria for the country.

Mr Speaker, the ZDA received an unsolicited application from Viet-Zam Diversified Co-operation Limited to invest US$72 billion over twenty years and to be granted land to the extent of 6 million ha. The investor offered to invest US$12,000 per hectare totalling 6 million ha over the period. That is what translates into the US$72 billion overall investment. Further, the investor requested a number of concessions, including tax breaks.

Mr Speaker, in view of the significance of the proposal, it was necessary for the ZDA to consult key stakeholders. In that regard, the agency brought together key stakeholders who included traditional leaders, namely Chief Matipa from the Northern Province and Chief Chisunka from Luapula Province, to consult on the matter on 18^th June, 2024. In that meeting, there were other stakeholders from within the Government who are provincial leaders in the places of interest. During the meeting, it was made clear to the investor that granting such an amount of land by the Government was not tenable. To that end, the investor was guided to apply for a smaller piece of land, in line with the already existing farm block concept in which a domestic or foreign investor could apply for up to 20,000 ha of land for their project. The guidance that was provided was not in any way an approval to grant 6 million ha of land nor was it granted.

Mr Speaker, I must emphasise that the ZDA has no legal mandate to allocate land of any size, let alone the purported 6 million ha that we are talking about. The investment was a proposal for which a conclusion has not been reached. No agreement has been signed nor has the Government approved any of the other requests that the company made. The Government is well aware of the risks associated with allocating such huge tracts of land to a single investor, hence, the guidance given to the investor to consider applying for a smaller parcel of land. I wish to reiterate that no pronouncement was made on the part of the Government confirming the allocation of such a huge tract of land or any amount of land for that matter.

Mr. Speaker, as I conclude my statement, I wish to indicate that there has been increased interest in investing in Zambia from both the local and foreign investors. Consequently, we have been receiving many investment requests, and our role through the ZDA, which is an Act of Parliament, is to receive those proposals and assess their sustainability and viability for the good of the present and future generations. I wish to assure hon. Members that it is always necessary to request other Government agencies to conduct due diligence on proposed investments.

Mr Speaker, I wish to state as follows:

1. the US$72 billion investment was a mere proposal, and no agreement has been signed; and

1.  no land has been allocated to the investor and neither has the Government approved any of the requests that the investor made, such as tax breaks, lease fee waivers and citizenship.

Mr Speaker, all these requests have rules and statutes that govern the way they are processed. When an investor makes a proposal, we absorb it, take it for digestion and submit it to the relevant offices and ministries.

I wish to seize this opportunity, Mr Speaker, to express our gratitude to the public for the feedback that we have received on the matter. It shows the importance we attach to the valuable resources in our land. I also wish to assure the public that, as we promote investment, we remain guided by the laws of the land.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement issued by the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry.

Hon. Member for Mpika, you may proceed.

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to raise a constitutional point of order. As you know, I rarely rise on points of order unless it is extremely important and compelling that I do so, as I am doing now.

Mr Speaker, I raise this point of order in terms of Article No. 72(2)(e) read together with Article No. 72(5) of the Republican Constitution. For the avoidance of doubt, I quote:

“The office of Member of Parliament becomes vacant if the member–

(e) is expelled from the political party which sponsored the member for election to the National Assembly.”

Article No. 72(5) states:

“Where a Member of Parliament is expelled as provided in Clause (2) (e), the member shall not lose the seat until the expulsion is confirmed by a court, except that where the member does not challenge the expulsion in court and the period prescribed for challenge lapses, the member shall vacate the seat in the National Assembly.”

Mr Speaker, on or around 6^th December, 2023, the Patriotic Front (PF) leadership through its Secretary-General, communicated the expulsion of nine Members of Parliament of the PF to the National Assembly of Zambia. That action prompted the nine Members of Parliament, that is Hon. Ronald Chitotela, Hon. Nixon Chilangwa, Hon. Musonda Mpakata, Hon. Christopher Kang’ombe, Hon. Remember Mutale, Hon. Brian Mundubile, Hon. Stephen Kampyongo, Hon. Mulenga Fube, and Hon. Mutotwe Kafwaya, to take legal action against the first respondent, …

Mr Emmanuel M. Musonda entered the Assembly Chamber and interjected.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Musonda, you have just come into the House, but you are trying to cause mayhem on the Floor.

Hon. Minister, you may continue.

Mr Mweetwa: … being Mr Miles Bwalya Sampa, the second respondent –

Mr Nkombo: President!

Mr Mweetwa: The first respondent being Mr Miles Bwalya Sampa, President, PF; and the second respondent, Mr Morgan Ng’ona, Secretary-General; and the Attorney-General of the Republic of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, I raise this serious matter on the terms that since about 6^th December, 2023, when the expulsion was communicated about the nine Members of Parliament, there has been no subsisting legal process or action challenging the expulsion of the said nine hon. Members before any competent court of jurisdiction within Zambia or elsewhere. There has been no injunction to date restraining the execution or efficacy of the expulsion. Further, there has been no stay so that the implication of the expulsions may not take effect.

Mr Speaker, I seek your guidance on whether the hon. Members of Parliament in question are in order to join us in this House, and to partake in the business of this House in light of the provisions of the articles that I have brought before this House. The people of Zambia would like to know whether they are in order to remain in this House given the provisions of the law, which we all swore to defend.

Mr B. Mpundu interjected.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Nkana, leave the House.

Mr Mwene: Every time, kwati ni baby.

Mr B. Mpundu left the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, I have heard your point of order. I reserve my ruling to study the matter extensively. I hope to get back to the House in due course to render my ruling on this serious matter that is before the Floor of the House.

Hon. Member for Mpika, you may continue.

Mr Kapyanga: Thank you so much, Mr Speaker, for this opportunity given to me to ask a question.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has stated that Government agencies usually undertake due diligence on the investors who want –

Mr B. Mpundu entered the Assembly Chamber and resumed his seat.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Nkana Constituency, you are still here?

Mr B. Mpundu: I have come back. You asked me to go, and I have come back.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: No. You will come back next week on Wednesday.

Laughter

Mr B. Mpundu: You did not say that.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You will come back to the House on Wednesday. Your conduct is quite unhonourable. You have been reprimanded on several occasions about debating whilst seated and making unnecessary utterances.

Mr B. Mpundu: Ngamwachilanda, ba Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I can add more flavour to that guidance. If you want to make this august House ungovernable, you will not succeed. This House has rules.

Hon. Member for Mpika, you may proceed.

Mr B. Mpundu left the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has stated that various Government agencies perform due diligence on investors who approach the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) and other Government agencies with investment proposals. I would like to find out if those Government agencies, particularly the security wings, performed thorough due diligence on Viet-Zam Diversified  Co-operation Limited to ascertain whether the US$72 billion is available so that the Government is not made to deal with scammers.

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Mr Speaker, indeed, due diligence is done by different Government agencies, that is why they are called security agencies. It is the preserve of His Excellency the President and the hon. Ministers assigned to deal with security matters, which are not usually brought into the public domain. So, allow me to hold back on discussing security agencies.

Mr Speaker, on the aspect of the certainty of the US$72 billion investment, the House must understand that if US$72 billion was brought today, or even a US$1 billion, it could not be absorbed. It is for that reason that in my statement I phrased the point as the investment being rolled out over a period of twenty years, as opposed to being a single disbursement of US$72 billion.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, I think, in the past week or so, we have witnessed a lot of drama and the Opposition was having a field day talking about the matter that the hon. Minister is clarifying to the House. What advice would he give to people who just like putting up big headlines on matters, yet the detail is in what the hon. Minister has said in the ministerial statement? I need him to clarify this matter because it has caused unnecessary debate. The details of the issue have just been given. Can he give the advice so that next time, hon. Colleagues can first look at the details of a matter before escalating the debate to a level where the country’s time has been wasted?

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Mr Speaker, before I proceed to respond to the question, allow me to do something that I forgot to do earlier, that is welcome the children who have come from school to be a part of the House.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Zambezi East has said something very important. We are degenerating the country for politics at any given opportunity. Investment should continue coming into the country irrespective of who brings it, that is either local or foreign investors. This Government has set that aspect clearly. Barely a month ago, the President threatened to revoke land investor licences in the North-Western Province that had been given in excess of 5 ha, 6 ha or 20,000 ha not being put to productivity.

Mr Speaker, in the past, there was no transparency in how land apportioning or investor absorption was being done. Now, it is being done openly and the public is aware of how the processes are being undertaken from the points of discussion. It is from that initial point that people want to generate political mischief that might mislead the public about what is happening. I would like to cite an example of what happened in Hon. Kapyanga’s constituency in 2014. A piece of land was apportioned to so-called investors without consulting the chiefs and residents in the area. People were displaced from land that belonged to them and had other Government facilities, such as polling stations. That is the situation the New Dawn Government wants to correct and get the land back from the people who have it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Mr Speaker, that is the reason there is transparency. From the inception of any proposals we, as the Government, are involving the chiefs, stakeholders and residents so that the public can debate and a good decision can be made from it. I would like to lobby the hon. Members of this House and other political players not to be in the habit of misleading people even when we are aware that there are consultations and discussions at play. The Government will continue to be responsible for how it administers affairs of national concern.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Thank you very, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, this was a contentious matter. From the statement the hon. Minister has given, it should be put to bed. During the days of the late Former President Kenneth Kaunda, he would call such a situation as kachepa, meaning people who monger lies.

Sorry, Mr Speaker, I withdraw the term “lies”. Let me say that it means people who monger untruths. According to the information that has sunk into the minds of the majority of Zambians about what has happened regarding this matter, some still believe the stories that are circulating. So, reflecting on the situation, going forward, what lessons has the ministry learned about correcting such impressions before it is too late?

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Mr Speaker, firstly, there should be a moral aspect in the manner in which we, as political players, communicate with the people. In wanting to create political relevance and expedience, we choose to say the wrong things rather than the right things in situations that happen just to raise alarm and discontent within the public. So, issues of morality within us, as hon. Members, in the opposition, the ruling party and independents must prevail. You are sending people out for being mischievous in the House of Law; a House that requires a certain level of conduct and which should be upheld with respect. It is from such conduct that we should put within ourselves moral responsibility, as citizens, above being expeditious and politically hungry.

Mr Speaker, in responding to the hon. Member’s question, as a ministry, we should clarify and continue to engage the public. That will be done on radio programmes in different languages so that citizens believe that the people who escalated and brought that story babufi, nibaputi, nibakachepa. The Zambian Government is not auctioning the country. We are merely receiving submissions in consultation.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, translate what you have just said.

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Babufi means that they are liars, nibaputi means that they are rumour mongers, and nibakachepa means that they are inherent liars who can never repent.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, the country needs foreign direct investment. How I wish the investment was US$100 billion instead of US$72 billion so that the Zambian people can be employed, and have something to do.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that the investment is earmarked for twenty years. We understand that it is a proposal. Has the ministry conducted due diligence? Has the ministry checked on the investor's credentials, the source of funding and all that so that it can see how the investment can be trenched for us to also benefit? We will always have land, but we need development and investment.

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Mr Speaker, the rumour spread like wildfire just at the consultative stage, even long before the submission could be made to the ministry. We are yet to receive the proposal and submissions, as a ministry. It was during the consultative process that the rumour spread like wildfire. When the submissions reach the ministry, due diligence and consultations will be done within the ministry and through other stakeholder ministries, and the Cabinet will be informed.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the statement that he has issued. It has clarified the issue.

Mr Speaker, just by looking at the nature of the proposal –

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, thank you very much for allowing me to raise this important point of order.

Mr Speaker, the official language used in this Parliament is well known. However, it seems that the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry can get away with using a different language on the Floor without interpreting the meaning in the official language.

Mr Speaker, the Zambia Daily Mail is a Government tabloid newspaper. In its publication dated 19^th June, 20 –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

You have risen on a point of order. So, I expect you to say what breach has occurred.

Mr Kampyongo: The best Standing Order to quote is Standing Order No. 71.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: State what breach has occurred.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, Order No. 71 provides that the information we bring to the Table must be factual and verifiable. In responding to a follow-up question, the hon. Minister stated that those who are talking about the investment proposal are liars and like using innuendos. In my hands is a copy of the Zambia Daily Mail newspaper dated 19^th June, 2024. The headline on the front page reads, “US$72 billion Investment -Vietnamese seek to invest in the hi-tech agriculture, eco-tourism projects”. This is a national newspaper agency. Why would the hon. Minister insinuate that people who have lamented over this matter are liars yet his Government, through the hon. Minister of Information and Media - who has decided to politick today on matters that do not concern the Government –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

You are a senior Member of this House. You know that according to our rules, we do not debate ourselves. A point of order must be precise and to the point for it to be admissible.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I have referred to the Zambia Daily Mail tabloid publication headline of 19^th June, 2024, which had a screaming headline about the US$72 billion investment.

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: I will lay it on the Table. That is not your job.

Mr Speaker, was the hon. Minister in order to allege that all those who have commented on this matter are liars and that they have been peddling rumours, yet his Government has reported this matter to the nation? Was he in order to take that trajectory in terms of referring to those who had raised concerns about the matter by including our chiefs who were not consulted regarding that bogus investment?

Mr Speaker, I seek your ruling.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister is assigned to preside over a ministry. He has stated his official position. As such, we, in this House, have to adhere to what he has said because that is the Government’s position.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chinsali, you may proceed.

Mr Mukosa: Mr Speaker, just by looking at the proposal made by Viet-Zam Diversified Co-operation Limited in which it has applied to be given 6 million ha of land in Zambia, did the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) have to wait to consult the stakeholders before it could give guidance to that corporation about the fact that it could not get 6 million ha, and that it could only get 20 000 ha?

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Mr Speaker, before I respond to the good question asked by the hon. Member, I need to state and emphasise one point.

Mr Speaker, the rumour mongers lied. They pronounced that the ZDA is claiming a refund from Viet-Zam Diversified Co-operation Limited, and they have tabulated figures on social media and elsewhere to that effect. The ZDA is not claiming any refund from anywhere. The senior Member, Hon. Kampyongo, wants to draw me and the chiefs into this discussion. I never, at any point, alleged my chiefs in the manner that he has assumed. In my statement, I said that they were part of a consultative meeting. If the hon. Member wants to draw in the chiefs in a derogatory manner, which he has chosen, I will leave it up to him. It is his preserve. I respect and honour my chiefs.

Mr Speaker, indeed, there is a letter purported to have been drawn from somewhere. That letter is unverified and we cannot comment on it. Truth be told, lies have been peddled that the Government has sold off land and signed leases for over 6 million ha. We have not done that, neither has the investment proposal even reached the Cabinet or the ministry. It was only being looked at by a statutory body, which is also an Act of Parliament. So, if the opposition political leaders allege that the Government has auctioned off land, then, they are the first ones who have auctioned it because the statutory body is an Act of Parliament. The auctioning of land that they are talking about was done in my young brother, Hon. Kapyanga’s constituency in 2014. This Government is going to reverse that and give the land back to the people to whom it belongs.

Mr Speaker, allow me to answer the question asked by the hon. Member for Chinsali. He asked whether the ZDA had to wait to consult the chiefs and the stakeholders. The answer is yes. The ZDA is a body that is mandated to conduct stakeholder engagements. The chiefs needed to know what was happening in their areas. In recent times we have heard calls, even from the hon. Members of Parliament who hail from Muchinga Province, specifically Mpika District, and Luapula Province for more agricultural improvement in the areas. The ZDA and other agencies want to take development to those areas. Anomalies may be picked up at one point or another, but the vision of this Government is to ensure that we provide development in those areas. There is nothing wrong with establishing rice or maize production schemes in Muchinga Province, the Northern Province or Luapula Province. That is why the hon. Ministers and the ZDA official who were in the consultative meeting gave the investor guidance about getting the land in pieces because it could not be given that colossal piece of land.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, thank you for this opportunity given to me to ask a question.

Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister on the Floor –

Mr Nkandu interjected.

Mr Twasa: As you were, Hon. Nkandu.

Mr Speaker, there was a high-powered delegation that met to discuss the issue. The delegation that attended that meeting included a Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) senior representative, the hon. Minister for Luapula Province and the hon. Minister for the Northern Province. The hon. Minister for Luapula Province called the proposal a great project and the hon. Minister for the Northern Province said that it was a life-changing project.

Mr Nkandu: Question!

Mr Twasa: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether it was a consultative meeting or a meeting for which Government officials were promoting the giving away or selling of land to a foreign investor. Their tones sounded as though they were promoting and encouraging the adoption of the project rather than just having a consultative meeting.

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Mr Speaker, I like the fact that the hon. Member for Kasenengwa has said that “their tones sounded …”. In his assumption, he wants to take it as if they were implementing the matter. It was a consultative meeting. The matter is about the angle from which you choose to see things. If you are in the Opposition and you want to find something wrong in the Government, you will find it. This Government remains committed to consultative engagements. It is the reason the President is doing what has not been done before, that is providing public-private dialogue forums. If there had been a public-private dialogue forum before, my people’s land in Mpika, where my young brother Hon. Kapyanga’s constituency, Mpika Central, is, could not have been auctioned off at their expense. We have brought in public-private engagements in which chiefs, who are the custodians of the land on behalf of the Zambian Republic, hon. Ministers, who are the provincial leaders, as well as the private sector are brought together for dialogue and debate. The Republic can see and make pronouncements and decisions based on what it thinks.

Mr Speaker, there was no implementation. It was a consultative meeting. I would also like to invite the hon. Member to other meetings in which he can participate.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, I want the hon. Minister to make me understand something. Can the nation know how much money Viet-Zam Diversified Co-operation Limited has invested in Zambia to date? The investor has been in the country for a while. If you open the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development web portal, you will find that the ministry has already given Viet-Zam Diversified Co-operation Limited an exploration licence for up to 26,105 ha of land, which is not bad. How much money has the investor invested in the country? He is not new in the country. He has been here for the last – if I am not mistaken – two years.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I do to know whether the hon. Minister can comment on that because it is a question that is off the subject of the ministerial statement.

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Mr Speaker, as the hon. Member for Nyimba has said, the investor is not new to the country. He has been around. I would be academic in my response if I knew the actual amounts invested by more than a thousand individual investors in their respective portfolios in Zambia. With that question in mind, we will provide the information to the hon. Member through the ZDA in collaboration with the Ministry of Finance and National Planning and the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister’s statement was elaborate. It has clarified all that the doomsayers have been lying to this country about. So, we are happy to hear that statement.

Mr Speaker, since the New Dawn Government came into power, investment through the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) is at its highest. Can the hon. Minister explain how the chiefdoms that are interested in development can benefit from that high level of investment that we are seeing in the country by, maybe, sharing a map of the investment opportunities in various chiefdoms. That would make it easier for investors with different investment interests to move to chiefdoms that also have interest in certain types of development. In that way, it makes it easier for chiefdoms to create industries. For example, in Mbabala, we are interested in various industries for our people. We would like to attract investment in that direction. It becomes easier for investors who want to set up industries to work with the people of Mbabala in partnership to bring about development in the country.

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Mr Speaker, indeed, chiefdoms must benefit from investments that go into their respective areas. Benefits come in various ways, such as infrastructure development and employment from which the people who reside in the areas benefit.

Mr Speaker, as long as the New Dawn Government is in office, we hope that it becomes a policy even many years after we have served that every chiefdom is a part of the governance system in a responsible manner from the consultative level. It is from that level that chiefdoms state where they strongly believe the gain for their people lies, and that is what we have started doing, as opposed to just moving in and doing things without engaging with the chiefdoms and other people.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Thank you, Mr Speaker, for giving me this opportunity, on behalf of the people of Chienge, to ask a question on this important ministerial statement. I have been listening to the hon. Minister’s responses.

Mr Speaker, I am aware that the Luapula Province Chiefs Council (LPCC) had a chat with the same investor. There is a statement that was issued by the council in which it outlined its dissatisfaction with the demands that the investor was making. When you read the document, which is in the public domain, it clearly shows that the investor wanted to be the sole grower of rice in Luapula Province. I am just picking out some of the things. Looking at the documents that the investor has, they are for mining not for agricultural purposes. Whenever an investor comes into our country, according to the immigration laws, what he is coming to do is what he should stick to.

Mr Speaker, the investor who wants to invest US$72 billion into our country comes from a country that has a gross domestic product (GDP) of US$406 billion and biggest billionaire from Vietnam is worth US$4 billion. Since the hon. Minister has said that due diligence was carried out, on behalf of the good people of Luapula Province, I would like to know what made the Government entertain that investor, and to send him to the chiefs and the people of Luapula who rejected his conditions. They had a one-on-one meeting with him. I want to know to why the Government would send someone who even confessed that he has not done that kind of project before.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, be precise.

Rev. Katuta: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that investment would be rolled out over a period of twenty years. However, the Vietnamese did not say that roll out would be over a period of twenty years. I would like to know why the Government would want to do such a thing to the people of Luapula. Why would it send someone who has not even done any kind of investment as such?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I think, we should be attentive when hon. Ministers are issuing ministerial statements. The hon. Minister stated that the meeting was part of a consultative process.

I am call upon another hon. Member.

Hon. Member for Mwense, you may proceed.

Mr Mabumba (Mwense): Mr Speaker, in his statement, the hon. Minister alluded to the fact that there was stakeholder engagement and consultation. As you are aware, we, as hon. Members, are key stakeholders in Government decisions even when it comes to investment. At what stage in terms of the structured consultation process and engagement was the ministry going to involve hon. Members so that, probably, your hon. Colleagues could have helped address the misinformation, if any, which has gone around.

 Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Mr Speaker. I want to thank the hon. Member for Mwense for asking a very good question of concern about at what point hon. Members were going to be engaged.

Mr Speaker, before I respond to the hon. Member for Mwense, I think, it is important to pay attention to issues, as you have given guidance. A classic example is what has been displayed by the hon. Member for Chienge. She has outlined issues that I need to clarify because the public was listening to her when she spoke. It is important that I address the issues so that the public understands that what she has talked about is not as it was said. The Government has not issued 6 million ha of land, I insist. Further, the Government has not done any harm to the people of Luapula Province. She talked about the Government bringing in that person to be the sole trader in rice production. My ministry is responsible for the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission (CCPC). We do not support monopoly in business in this country. The President is on record talking about partnerships and joint ventures. If the Opposition or the political pundits that talked about the issue had allowed it to mature into a ministerial or Executive decision, they would have realised that we do not support monopolistic business conduct in this country. We propagate for partnerships and joint ventures. They just made this thing die out before it even arrived at a point of engagement, such as bringing it to hon. Members of Parliament and other stakeholders.

Mr Speaker, in responding to the question asked by the hon. Member for Mwense, indeed, stakeholder engagement is key. The issue was just at inception stage. Many of the things that were outlined in the document concerning the proposed investment were going to need parliamentary oversight if they were going to be implemented. Before or at that stage, it would have been brought to your cause. On many other things, hon. Members will be informed, as we dialogue together.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker, in the view of the people of Kanchibiya, I think, there are one or two issues that we, as a nation, must be dealing with. We understand that land is very important both economically and politically. How does that speak for us vis-a-vis recasting our land policy, as the case would be. In the words of our late President Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, God is no longer in the business of creating land. Going forward, what are we going to do, in our quest to attract investment, to ensure that we preserve and protect the much-needed resource?

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Mr Speaker, the Head of State continues to advocate for partnerships and joint ventures between foreign and local investors. Allow me to inform the House about the scale of the land we have, which is arable, and that which is being accessed to give hon. Members comfort, and also to be an agent of investment in this country. We have arable land in Zambia, which is about 45 million ha. The only portion that is being used totally for agriculture at present is only 7.6 million ha. We have enough land to subject, in a responsible way, to farming. So, we should advocate for more partnerships and investment in the agricultural sector.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

_______

MOTION

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORT, WORKS AND SUPPLY ON ROAD FREIGHT TRANSPORT IN ZAMBIA

Mr Mubika (Shangombo): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Transport, Works and Supply on Road Freight Transport in Zambia for the Third Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly laid on the Table of the House on 26^th June, 2024.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Mubika: Mr Speaker, in accordance with its terms of reference, as provided for in the Standing Orders, the Committee undertook a study on road freight in Zambia. During its study, the Committee interacted with various stakeholders who tendered both oral and written submissions. It also undertook a foreign tour to Tanzania.

Mr Speaker, as I am aware that hon. Members have perused through the report, I will only highlight a few issues that were raised by stakeholders during the deliberations. Of great concern to the Committee is that despite Zambia having more local than foreign freight operators, the local road freight transport operators account for less than 30 per cent of the market share, while foreign transporters account for 70 per cent. That is in stark contrast to Statutory Instrument No. 35 of 2021, which provides that 50 per cent of Zambian regional transportation of cargo is hauled by local freight operators. For instance, most of the off-takers for copper mined in Zambia prefer to use foreign transporters through backloads at commercially unfavourable prices for local transporters, thereby, ignoring the Statutory Instrument (SI). The Committee, therefore, recommends that the Executive puts in place strict monitoring mechanisms that will ensure that the provisions in the SI are strictly adhered to. That will ensure that 50 per cent of the market share is held by local Zambian freight transport operators.

Mr Speaker, the Committee also observed with concern that some freight companies and trucks in Zambia are foreign-owned despite being registered as Zambian. That has been exacerbated by the fact that financially sound foreign nationals front Zambians as directors and shareholders when in fact not. That state of affairs has been compounded by the lack of capital and weak monitoring mechanisms to enable local transporters compete favourably with foreign transporters. In view of that, the Committee recommends that businesses registered as freight firms in Zambia should be subjected to strict nationality verification by the Patents and Companies Registration Agency (PACRA), as the current practice is crowding out Zambians from the industry. Further, that should also be in line with the provisions under paragraph 4 of the Citizens Economic Empowerment (Reservation scheme) Regulations, Statutory Instrument No. 1 of 2017, which provides that 50 per cent of road freight transportation of cargo is reserved for Zambian transporters. 

Mr Speaker, further, the Committee observed that among the reasons the local freight transporters face are many challenges in terms of competition, is due to the weak monitoring of investment pledges and inadequate capital which, ultimately, stifle local road road freight transporters from being competitive. As a result, foreign investors enter unlisted business lines, such as road freight transport. The Committee, therefore, recommends that the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) establishes a systematic procedure for monitoring freight investment pledges through periodic reviews using a digital platform. That will protect local enterprises, particularly those in the road freight industry, from being crowded out by financially sound investors who deviate from their initial investment pledges and plans.

Mr Speaker, the Committee also noted that there is a lot of road warping and traffic checkpoints in Zambia, which interferes with the free flow of vehicles, which ultimately increases the cost of doing business for road freight operators as well as costs related to road repairs by the Government. The Committee recommends that the Government takes up measures to reinforce traffic checkpoints with concrete structures and parking spaces along selected roads to ensure the smooth movement of goods. It also recommends that enforcement entities like the Zambia National Service (ZNS), the Zambia Police Service, the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) and the councils have one road block instead of each having their own checkpoint. A case in point was in Chinsali, where we found four check points in a space of about 3 km. The Committee recommends the use of manned patrols and smart cameras to monitor traffic violations to avoid road dilapidations caused by check points.

Mr Speaker, as I end, I wish to pay tribute, on behalf of the Committee, to all the stakeholders who tendered both oral and written submissions to it. I also wish to thank you, Mr Speaker, and the Clerk of the National Assembly for the guidance and support services accorded to the Committee throughout its deliberations.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr J. Chibuye: Mr Speaker, now.

Mr Speaker, the Motion that has been ably moved, and the matters raised have been well articulated and elaborated by the chairperson of the Committee. As I second the Motion, allow me to just add a few pertinent issues to what he has reported to the House.

Mr Speaker, I want to begin by stating that in its interaction, especially when it went on the local tours, the Committee visited the border facilities; Nakonde and Kasumbalesa border posts. The Committee was amused by the kind of porousness that was found at the two borders. It was worse at Kasumbalesa in the sense that the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) land, which is on title, has actually got some people who have also obtained titles for it. That was surprising and amazing for the Committee to find out. That situation is actually giving many challenges to institutions such as the ZRA and police service in terms of manning the borders and, as such, they are overwhelmed. The Committee, therefore, recommends that border security should be tightened and more officers deployed to avoid the current porous state.

Mr Speaker, the second issue is the inadequate station imprest, especially at the Tunduma-Nakonde Border Post. The Committee experienced a lot of load shedding when it was on tour there. It was informed that a lot of imprest is being spent on acquiring diesel to ensure that the generators run adequately and efficiently so as not to disturb the operations of the ZRA. The Committee, therefore, recommends that the imprest allocation should be increased to cater for the added cost due to electricity load management. 

Mr Speaker, the other issue that I want to speak on is the absence of a cargo and logistics agency at the border. The Committee observed that there is no established freight logistics agency that is supposed to act as a hub for local freight operators in Zambia in order to consolidate haulage of cargo by local importers and to reduce empty miles, meaning that the transporters are always loaded as they traverse the corridors. In view of that and taking into consideration the projected increase in copper production from 760,000 metric tonnes to 3 million metric tonnes by 2030, the Committee recommends that the Government puts in place legislation to establish an agency as well as expand the mandate of the Zambia Cargo and Logistics Limited (ZAMCARGO). ZAMCARGO is wholly owned by the Government. It can be used as a hub for back loads for Zambian truck owners. There are no back loads, as the chairperson of your Committee has elaborated, for the truckers from Zambia who traverse the corridors, especially to Dar es Salaam, Tanzania.

Mr Speaker, the last point that I would like to speak on is the poor communication system at the border posts. The Committee observed that the absence of an effective communication system makes it difficult for most local freight owners to have access to established Information and Communication Technology (ICT) systems that can connect them to off-takers based within or outside of Africa. That has made it difficult for local freight operators to find meaningful business opportunities. ICT is important for local operators so that they can be accessing off-takers from outside the country. In view of that, the Committee recommends that an electronic platform (e-platform) be established, with technical support from the SMART Zambia Institute, on which all exporters of bulk goods originating from Zambia can be linked and monitored in terms of adherence to the 50 per cent engagement of local freight operators for the transportation of the total copper exported and other bulk goods.

Mr Speaker, I want to sincerely thank you for according me this opportunity to second the Motion.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Thank you, Mr Speaker. I support this important report.

Mr Speaker, I am happy to say that for the first time, the Committee spoke to the relevant people who are in the business during their course of work. Some of us are very patriotic to this country and we want the best for it. This Parliament – the senior Members will agree with me – some time back passed a law to create the Chartered Institute of Logistics, which in the follow-up was supposed to have created the Transporters Trade Policy in the sector. However, that has not been done up to date. As a result, this country loses colossal sums of money year in, year out.

Mr Speaker, in the transportation business, a truck from Tanzania will off-load in Zambia and load up back in transit to Tanzania. We do not have trucks from Zambia that load in Tanzania and transport goods back into the country. So, we have 2000 km of wasted mileage on a trucker. That situation causes an increase in prices set by our transporters at the end of the day. The people on your right will say that Zambian transporters are expensive and so they cannot hire them. It is because we have not looked into the issue or come up with a policy in that sector. The sector has been neglected. If one googles countries like Tanzania, he or she will see how much the sector contributes towards the Tanzanian gross domestic product (GDP). This sector in our country practically contributes zero. The reason is that we have not come up with a policy, as lawmakers, to encourage our locals operators.

Mr Speaker, Zambian trucking companies in Southern Africa, especially those who are into transporting fuel, can boast that their truckers are second to South African truckers. However, we, as a country, do not use the truckers because we consider them more expensive than the Zimbabwean or Mozambican truckers. The reason is that we do not have a policy regarding this sector. The question is why? It is a challenge to the Ministry of Transport and Logistics. A proposal was made years ago to have a policy in place. We are supposed to have had a policy to encourage freight operators.

Mr Speaker, this country has a law on cabotage, yet we allow foreign companies to transport soya beans and maize from within Zambia as well as offload in Zambia. You may wish to note that a Tanzanian truck can load in Mkushi and offload in Nakonde, and the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) will not do anything about it because the whole system is corrupted. We need to work on this situation so that we start giving value to our transporters. If we give them value, they will contribute in taxes and buy more tyres and spare parts. At the end of the day, we are going to create employment.

Mr Speaker, this is the only country where we create employment for other countries. That should come to an end. We cannot keep bringing in other truckers to transport goods in the country when our truckers are parked. My prayer is for the Ministry of Transport and Logistics to analyse the report, and pick out what is progressive for the country. It looks bad for us, as a country, to keep promoting foreign truckers. The so-called multimillion transporters have come into this country because they have seen loopholes in our transport and logistics sector. A company will rent a room at a hotel or a building for its operations, and deprive Zambian transporters who genuinely contribute to our economy because of such situations. You cannot bring in somebody who has workshops in Zimbabwe, South Africa or Mozambique to compare them to a Zambian who has employed other Zambians. For the other person, everything happens in South Africa, yet you want Zambian operators to compete with such businesses. I wonder what happens when we get positions of leadership.

My prayer is that people on your right read this report, and get a briefing from the chairperson of your Committee about what transpired during the Committee’s work. Mr Speaker, we need to get the Ministry of Transport and Logistics, and RTSA, which has been porous to work. If there is an institution that is “killing” Zambian transporters, it is RTSA. The agency brings in people who are not even as capable as Zambians. Those are the people killing our sector and we are watching. Tanzania, South Africa and Zimbabwe have seen that the Zambian Government does nothing about the situation. We are blank about the sector. So, they have hammered us.

Mr Speaker, the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) is bringing in somebody –

Sorry, Mr Speaker, this issue pains me a lot. The money we, as a country, are wasting is too much. I end here.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Motion ably moved by the hon. Member for Shangombo.

Mr Speaker, I am constrained because even as I am about to debate, the House is in breach of Order No. 236, which requires us to have one-third of hon. Members present at any given Sitting. We are far below that requirement. The quorum has collapsed. I seek your indulgence on that breach before I go into my discourse.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, from my end, the Clerks-at-the-Table have not yet indicated. So, I am yet to be informed. I will wait for the Clerks to indicate. Meanwhile, you can proceed.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, the Motion moved by the hon. Member for Shangombo is an interesting one. What caught my attention in the report is the rationale for undertaking the study tour to look into issues of transport and logistics. The reason cited is that:

“Despite the high demand for road transport, the sector was largely dominated by foreign operators due to the significant capital outlay required to invest in this sub-sector. Road freight transport costs in Zambia were high, potentially adding up to 40 per cent of the final costs of products, negatively affecting price levels and the competitive position of Zambian products on the international markets.”

Mr Speaker, your Committee further states that:

“Zambian transport and logistics enterprises had limited capacities to deliver high quality and low cost services, which were essential for transforming the country into a regional transportation hub.”

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, Hon. Kampyongo!

I have been advised that we have no quorum. So, resume your seat. We are down by two hon. Members. I request that the bells be rung.

Hon. Whips, do your job to ensure that we have a quorum.

Mr Kampyongo: We cannot see the Hon. Whips.

Business was suspended from 1237 hours until 1242 hours.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: We now have a quorum.

Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, you may continue.

Mr Kampyongo: Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, I rise reluctantly because my flow of debate has been disturbed. However, I will proceed because this Government ioneka niyolema; tired.

Mr Speaker, I was looking at the background to what necessitated the Committee to undertake the tour and come up with this report. What has been shown in the report is the fact that the transport sub-sector is not competitive in the region. That simply means that Zambia is placing caveats on the growth of the sub-sector. There is a need for the Government to come up with deliberate policies that will support it. Innovations such as the one in the transportation of lubricants, a situation in which the Government locked a certain percentage for the local transporters, could be one of the measures to help stimulate growth in that sub-sector. When you have a situation of that nature, you find that men and women, mostly men, who are the wheels of the economy that traverse the country and the region day and night, cannot be remunerated adequately. So, they are always stressed. In the end, the road carnage that we have been witnessing cannot be controlled.

Mr Speaker, like the hon. Member for Nyimba Constituency mentioned, more needs to be done to create an environment that is conducive for transporters. What are the costs if we look at the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) fees, for example, that are charged on the transporters? How can we mitigate some of those costs? The transporters have to buy spare parts and ensure that their motor vehicles are roadworthy. If the cost of spare parts is high, it becomes difficult to maintain operation cost, worse still if the Zambian Kwacha is not stable on the foreign exchange market. All these factors need to be holistically looked at in order to have a viable transport sub-sector. We have seen lorries and tippers moving on our roads carrying sand and all sorts of other goods. Who is regulating that?

Mr Speaker, we need to ensure that those segments of transportation that we can preserve for our indigenous citizens are preserved. We cannot tie the hands of our local people and let the international transporters or business persons be the ones to thrive. At the end of the day, we are just building the economies of the countries where the international transporters come from. There has been a challenge with the trucks that haul cargo from the ports of Tanzania and Mozambique, more so Tanzania. Those of us who travel to our constituencies using the Great North Road can even tell that most of the trucks that come from the border towns are not roadworthy and that they pose a risk to other motorists. We cannot on one hand, allow substandard transport vessels into our country when our own truckers cannot access the markets in other regions. It is important for those who are responsible for commerce, trade and industry, and transport to ensure that they create an environment and deliberate policies that favour our local enterprises, especially in the transport sub-sector.

Mr Speaker, with those few remarks, I support the Motion to adopt the report.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mapani (Namwala): Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, to start, I would like to support the Motion to adopt the report that has been presented to this House today. Going by the statistics that have been given, indeed, 70 per cent of the transporters who use our roads are foreigners. We have a few local transporters, represented by 30 per cent. Coming from this sector, I would say that our local transporters have not been given opportunities that would help them improve or compete at an international level. The local transporters in this country are treated as second-class transporters in the sense that all the contracts in the mining industry that are given for transport needs are given to international transporters, while ours are used as subcontractors. That has a negative impact in the sense that the local contractors have no leeway directly to the mining companies where they could get the contracts to deliver commodities or cargo to other countries.

Mr Speaker, the other thing is that our transporters must have access to loans at reasonable rates as well. The local transporters are also a few and they do not have the financial muscle needs for operations. So, like it was said by other debaters, we must come up with deliberate policies that will allow our transporters to have access to bank loans at reasonable rates. That alone will help build them up to a level at which they can compete with foreign transporters.

Mr Speaker, security at the borders is another issue. It is quite porous. Cargo is lost or goes missing because our local transporters cannot manage to offer security compared to the foreign transporters. For example, if you went to Kasumbalesa, you would find that the foreign transporters engage security firms, which our own transporters cannot afford because of their negative financial status.

Mr Speaker, we had an opportunity, as the Committee on Government Assurances, to visit Kasumba Lesa Border Post. There are no beacons around the land at the border facility where our people are supposed to operate from and it has been encroached on. We tried to find out where our country’s boundaries are but, unfortunately, during the entire two hours or three hours we spent there, we could not see the demarcations because there are no beacons. Further, the parties from the other country are free to get into our country any time they want. The contrary is what is obtaining; our own cannot have access to other countries in the same way. I think that alone ought to be looked into because we need to create an environment that is conducive for everyone. If other people can walk into our country anytime they want, yet our transporters cannot have access to the borders or the customs authority in the other country at the time that they wish when they go there, that creates many problems for our local transporters.

Mr Speaker, when you look at what is happening in the freight industry, the local transporters are not allowed to open up customs clearing agencies or companies. However, international companies have their own clearing agencies formed or established when they get to the borders in foreign lands, such as in our country which, again, I feel is an issue that ought to be looked into. Our transporters, particularly when they get to other countries, are compelled to use clearing agents from those countries, yet foreigners have established their own companies here. I think that is an issue that ought to be looked into as well so that we can create evenness for both international and local transporters. That will enable our people to make some money so that we can improve the sector, which has been dominated by foreigners.

Mr Speaker, further, when you look at the road freight industry and the type of cargo that is transported, the local transporters are not allowed to carry or to uplift some types, especially those that are classified as hazardous because the assertion is that local transporters are not qualified to do so. My question is: When are we going to qualify to carry all types of cargo, as citizens or local transporters, because we cannot depend on foreign transporters when we have the capacity. That capacity ought to be built up as well so that, at the end of the day, we can compete for fairness across the board unlike the obtaining situation.

Mr Speaker, we also need to ensure that we offer security to our drivers. We have lost a couple of drivers, particularly in other countries, when they transport cargo. It difficult for them to be respected or recognised as transporters who are supposed to be given equal opportunities like the way we treat other transporters who move cargo across our country. Some Zambian transporters are even scared to travel to other countries because of security concerns. I would like to request the ministry responsible to take into account the security of our drivers. The way we treat our drivers and those from other countries should be the same. The opportunities or chances given to our drivers when they travel across borders should be the same as well. If this thing is balanced, then, we will have nothing to complain about. As it stands, things ought to be looked into at a certain level so that the security of our drivers can be considered.

With those few words, I thank you, Mr Speaker.

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Mr Speaker, allow me to thank the chairperson of the Committee for a clear report. I also want to thank the seconder of the Motion for his submission. I also extend my thanks to the three hon. Members who debated, save for the fact that the hon. Member for Nyimba should have declared an interest because he is a transporter.

Mr Speaker, this matter has been attended to at the highest level by the President, His Excellency Mr Hakainde Hichilema. In April this year, he had a workshop in Ndola at Levy Mwanawasa Stadium at which all the concerns that have been raised on the Floor were dealt with. We have taken note of all the concerns and promise that, as the Government, we are going to attend to them in the Action-Taken Report.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Nkombo: I beg to move.

Laughter

(Debate adjourned)

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The House adjourned at 1256 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 3^rd July, 2024.

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