Thursday, 7th December, 2023

Thursday, 7^thDecember, 2023

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

MR CHITOTELA, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR PAMBASHE, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HEALTH, MRS MASEBO, ON BLOOD PRESSURE MEDICINE BEING RECALLED FROM HEALTH CENTRES

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, the matter I am raising is directed to the hon. Minister of Health.

Madam Speaker, last week, we saw some medicine being recalled on the basis of efficacy and failure to meet the prescribed standards in Zambia. Further, there is a letter that was signed by the Director-General of the Zambia Medicines Regulatory Authority (ZAMRA) recalling the blood pressure (BP) medicine called Metformin, which had been distributed fourteen days earlier to various health centres. According to the letter, Breeze GVC, a pharmaceutical company in India, supplied Metformin BP 500 mg tablets that were distributed to various health centres in Zambia. It was stated that the medicine was being recalled by the Government because it failed to meet the prescribed standards. The fear is that most of us are on this tablet, and we do not know how many Zambians consumed it.

Interruptions

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Health in order to remain quiet and not inform the Zambian people what is happening concerning the supply of medicine in Zambia? There has been repeated recalling of essential drugs, and BP medicine is one of the essential drugs in Zambia today.

Madam Speaker, I seek your guidance.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I think, a similar matter was raised not long ago. The hon. Minister of Health issued a ministerial statement on a similar topic.

Hon. Member, you can file in a question concerning the drug that you have mentioned so that it can be attended to by the hon. Minister of Health.

MR MUNIR ZULU, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR LUMEZI, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MR MTOLO, ON THE DISTRIBUTION OF FARMING INPUTS IN LUMEZI

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, before I raise the matter of urgent public importance, may I take this opportunity to congratulate a Zambian from Lumezi, Mathews Ngulube, on being elected President of the Africa Association of Quantity Surveyors. It is the first time that a Zambian from Lumezi has got that position.

Madam Speaker, my matter is directed to the hon. Minister of Agriculture on the issue of fertiliser, especially given that during the 2021/2022 Farming Season, more than 6,500 farmers in Lumezi should have been compensated due to drought.

Madam Speaker, this year, this Government has introduced what is being called a loan, whereby one is given eight bags of fertiliser and is supposed to pay back with sixty bags of maize. Eight bags of fertiliser will only give one seventy bags of maize. People paying back the loan through sixty bags of maize is daylight robbery. When someone grows the maize, that person will only be allowed to get ten bags of maize when there is no sufficient fertiliser.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Agriculture should address us on what the ministry will do because people are sharing fertiliser in tumeda. As late as yesterday, the District Agriculture Co-ordinator (DACO) could not allow us to have access to those who are receiving fertiliser because fertiliser is now being shared on partisan lines.

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious indulgence.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A ministerial statement was issued on the supply of farming inputs. In fact, it was issued yesterday. It is a pity that, maybe, the hon. Member did not listen to the ministerial statement that was issued by the hon. Minister of Agriculture. We, however, discussed that matter in detail.

Hon. Member, you may file in a question specifically about Lumezi.

MR ANDELEKI, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR KATOMBOLA, ON THE EXPULSION OF NINE PATRIOTIC FRONT HON. MEMBERS FROM THE PARTY

Mr Andeleki (Katombola): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Andeleki: Madam Speaker, my matter is a constitutional one relating to the expulsion of nine Patriotic Front (PF) hon. Members.

Interruptions

Mr Andeleki: Madam Speaker, the point of order I am raising relates to Standing Order No. 202 –

Interruptions

Mr Andeleki: Can I be given a chance.

Therefore, Madam Speaker, –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Hon. Member for Katombola, we are not looking at points of order, but matters of urgent public importance.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

If it is not a matter of urgent public importance, you can use another platform to raise it, rather than raising a point of order when we are looking at matters of urgent public importance.

You may proceed.

Mr Andeleki: Madam Speaker, I thought that this is the proper time, considering the seriousness of the matter, but I abide by your guidance.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You said a point of order, and that is why I said that it is not the time for points of order, but matters of urgent public importance. Your matter is important, but find another way of bringing it up on the Floor of this House.

Hon. Members, we have a lot of work to transact.

We make progress and move to a Question for Oral Answer under Standing Order No. 74.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Before we proceed, I would like to inform the hon. Members on my left that the House Business Committee agreed that we allow only three matters of urgent public importance each day. This is a Budget Meeting. We want to finish the Votes before us.

Mr B. Mpundu: You have only admitted two.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: So, we make progress because I allowed three hon. Members to raise matters of urgent public importance.

Interruptions

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QUESTION FOR ORAL ANSWER

RETIRED TEACHERS NOT PAID TERMINAL BENEFITS AS OF DECEMBER 2022

160. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Education:

how many retired teachers had not been paid their terminal benefits as of December 2022;

what the cause of the delay in paying the terminal benefits was; and

when the benefits will be paid.

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima): Madam Speaker, 15,425 retired teachers had not been paid their terminal benefits as of December 2022.

Madam Speaker, the cause of the delay in paying the terminal benefits was inadequate funding.

Madam Speaker, payment of benefits is an on-going process. However, the terminal benefit arrears owed as of December 2022 will be paid within the 2023-2025 Medium Term Budget Plan.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, is it possible for the Government to plan for the terminal benefits so that as teachers retire, they get their dues?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, indeed, it is possible to plan that way, except that there has been a backlog for a long time. The 15,425 retired teachers are not just from yester-year. In fact, prior to December 2022, 3,594 retired teachers were paid their terminal benefits following the release of K106,903,472 by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. This means that in order for us to dismantle the backlog, it will take a bit of some time because it has been accumulating. However, it is possible to do that.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, from the response of the hon. Minister, would I be wrong to say that the former Government …

Mr Amutike: PF (Patriotic Front)!

Mr Miyutu: … did not take care of the teachers in this country?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, Hon. Miyutu would not be wrong because there are so many things that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government never took care of. This is just one small thing among so many things that our colleagues did badly.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity to ask the hon. Minister responsible for education a supplementary question. Before I do that, I want to send a word of encouragement to the rescue team in Chingola trying to rescue the young people who are currently unattended to.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister responsible for education has informed this august House and the nation that funds were not available to pay the retirees in the education sector on time. Is there no pension fund for the teachers? If there is none, is the ministry considering setting up one? That will ensure that as teachers get their pay, part of their income goes to a pension fund and when they retire, they get their money.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I think, that is a different question altogether. The hon. Member can ask it separately, but let me just repeat one thing. I said that prior to December 2022, we paid 3,594 teachers a total of K106 million. Yes, we did not have enough funds for the more than 15,000 retired teachers, but we paid 3,594. So, within that year, we paid some teachers.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

_______

MOTION

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, LANDS AND NATURAL RESOURCES ON THE PERFORMANCE AUDIT REPORT ON THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE FARMER INPUT SUPPORT PROGRAMME FROM 2018 TO 2022

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Madam Speaker, by leave of the House, I seek to defer consideration of the Motion to a later date.

Question put and agreed to. Leave granted.

Motion, by leave, accordingly deferred.

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COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

VOTE 76 – (Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts – K268,014,608)

(Consideration resumed)

Mr Sialubalo (Sinazongwe): Mr Chairperson, I would like to continue from where I ended yesterday when the House adjourned.

Mr Chairperson, the youths have been neglected for quite some time yet, in every constituency, there is something that they can be involved in profitably. For instance, in Garden Compound, there are many works that involve fabrication. What is the ministry doing to make sure that the youths who are innovative access funds to boost their businesses? These are the issues that the ministry should involve itself in.

Mr Chairperson, many youths want to mine. What we need to find out is how the ministry is helping them to acquire mining licences and equipment to use so that they are not used as tools for political purposes. We need a productive youth wing. The youths are the ones who will take over from us. So, we need to prepare and mentor them, and make sure that all the resources are availed to them. Like I indicated yesterday, I salute the New Dawn Administration for abolishing cadreism.

Mr Samakayi: Hear, hear!

Mr Sialubalo: Mr Chairperson, youths are now able to access loans and grants under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), though that is not enough. The ministry in charge of youths should take centre stage and see to it that they are no longer beggars. It pains me to see youths, when we visit our constituencies, asking for money from hon. Members of Parliament. That should not be the case. We should not be the master financiers of the youths when there is a ministry and hon. Minister in charge of looking after them. The ministry has so far recorded success. All it needs to do is continue looking for opportunities that will enable youths to be self-reliant.

Mr Chairperson, with those few words, I support the budget.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Mr Chairperson, let me thank the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts, though I cannot see him. I hope, he is being represented by the hon. Minister of Tourism.

Mr Chairperson, firstly, I wish to congratulate the hon. Minister. From the time he came into office, things are happening. We have seen the Zambia National Football Team qualify for the Africa Cup of Nations (AFCON) and the Zambia Women’s National Football Team qualify for the World Cup. On top of that, we have seen trophies come into the country. I congratulate him on that, and he should keep it up.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Chibuye: Mr Chairperson, the K268 million that has been allocated to the ministry might not be sufficient for the ministry to complete the two programmes it has embarked on, that is, youth development and creation of sports facilities across the country. Further, the ministry will empower youths through vocational and life skills. I heard the hon. Minister mention that, and some money has been allocated for that. That is a very important programme, and I wish more money could be allocated to it so that some youths are not left in the cold.

Mr Chairperson, I want to zero in on the issue of youth resource centres. The centres play a pivotal role, as youths are confined to places where they can learn various skills. I am glad that under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), there is a component of skills development for youths. However, more money should have allocated to the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts. They say that imiti ikula empanga, meaning that the youths are the future leaders. We need to bring them up in a manner that befits this nation and expose them to various skills so that they can be their own bosses.

Mr Chairperson, there is a youth resource centre in Luanshya whose construction started under the previous Government, gobbled quite an amount of taxpayers’ money and is at 70 per cent. When the hon. Minister mentioned that the Government will complete it, I was elated, as Member of Parliament, because when it is completed, the youths in Mpatamatu and Roan markets, Chilabula, Kawama and Maposa will be privileged to learn various skills that will enable them to have better lives.

Mr Chairperson, I also want to talk about youth development. The money that has been allocated to infrastructure development is not sufficient. Previously, it was K50 million, but it has been reduced to K10 million. I feel, that is not enough because Mpatamatu Stadium in Roan Constituency, which was owned by the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM) and is now owned by the Government, needs to be rehabilitated so that some youths can acquire skills. The hon. Minister should not forget that talented people like Jack Chanda, Emmanuel Mwape, Emmie Mwape, Kaizer Kalambo and Collins Mbesuma came from Roan Constituency and that we need to nurture more talent. That is a fact. Even some hon. Ministers seated here came from Roan Constituency, and I want them to help us to produce more Ministers. The hon. Minister should ensure that Roan Youth Resource Centre is completed so that we can start producing the Collins Mbesumas, the Jack Chandas and Bernard Chandas of this world. When he does that, the youths will not be turned into political tools during campaigns. We want the youths to be in youth resource centres so that they can learn skills. Further, the hon. Minister should create a base for talent. There is so much talent in the country that is unnoticed. For us to qualify to the World Cup, we need to identify talent from the lower structures and go to rural areas where there is talent. So, there is a need to identify that talent and bring it to the fore, and we can only do that if we have infrastructure.

Mr Chairperson, I remember that when we were growing up, we had sports competitions in various secondary schools. Even in the MTN Super League, there is now no team ‘Bs’. In the olden days, we had team ‘Bs’, which were a reservoir of talent. Like I have stated, the hon. Minister has done very well from the time he was appointed. He has achieved many things but, for him to achieve more, he should lay a proper foundation. The ministry should build infrastructure and organise talent identification tournaments so that it identifies talent in not only football and netball, but also karate. I was a very good karateka because that talent was identified at an early age.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Chibuye: Mr Chairperson, I urge the hon. Minister to start identifying talent. When I started karate, I was assisted by the ZCCM. The onus is on the Government to ensure that we do not waste talent. There is talent, and the ministry should build infrastructure in peri-urban and rural areas, and organise tournaments so that it can identify various talents. My wish and my prayer are that the hon. Minister succeeds. I will tell the people of Roan Constituency that the youth resource centre that gobbled a lot of taxpayers’ money will be completed next year under this Vote.

Mr Chairperson, I wish the hon. Minister all the best and good luck.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr C. Mpundu (Chembe): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity, on behalf of the people of Chembe, to say one or two words on the debate on this Vote, which is for the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts.

Mr Chairperson, I will take a different route. When budgets are being prepared, they should always have a human face, meaning that all the youths in our country should be included. I say so because when the hon. Minister was reading the policy statement, I did not hear anything to do with the youths who are in conflict with the law. The age group that is found in our correctional facilities are youths. What are they going to benefit from this budget? Some of them are talented in sport and art and have other talents. It is prudent that the ministry interrogates itself in view of this budget because it should be part of the rehabilitation and reintegration of the youths who are in conflict with the law.

Mr Chairperson, quite alright, the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security is doing something, especially for the youths who are about to be released, and there are some packages that are given to those youths. However, the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts should also play a part. It should donate sports equipment and tools that can be used by the youths who are incarcerated, and that will promote inclusiveness. We should not only focus on the youths who are the general populous, but also those who are incarcerated. From the packages that the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts can be giving to the youths, there must be a share for the youths who were incarcerated because some are trained in carpentry and tailoring, and acquire other skills. So, those packages can be given to them to complement the efforts of the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Mr Chairperson, the other thing that I want to talk about concerns the law. Our learned Magistrates and Judges say, “You are sentenced to five years imprisonment with hard labour”. That statement does not distinguish between a youth and an elderly person. So, the ministry needs to interrogate that law. When a seventeen-year-old is sentenced to imprisonment with hard labour, what does that mean? So, I urge the ministry to interrogate that law so that it is specific. We will end up promoting child labour because of that law. The ministry should work hand in hand with the Ministry of Justice to amend that law so that it suits the youths.

Mr Chairperson, lastly, let me talk about the programmes that the ministry is implementing. There must be a lot of sensitisation, especially to youths in rural constituencies. Most youths do not know about the programmes that the ministry is implementing. So, there is a need for sensitisation. Mind you, those programmes are attached to timelines. When a certain programme is being implemented, there is a timeline and target. So, people need to be availed the information, for example, that a programme will run for a certain period so that they are aware, unlike doing that when it is time to wean off people from that programme. That becomes a problem. We face that problem when weaning off people from the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) because information on the timeline of such programmes is not given.

Mr Chairperson, with that said, I support the budget, but I want it to include the youths who are incarcerated. Equipment, such as sports kits and other tools, should also be availed to those youths as a way of rehabilitating them and integrating them back into society.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mrs Chonya (Kafue): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much.

Mr Chairperson, let me start by stating that I fully support the budget for the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts.

Mr Chairperson, I appreciate, on behalf of the youths of Kafue, the hon. Minister’s support during the final tournament of the 50^th Anniversary of Kafue Constituency. The youths felt honoured and supported when the hon. Minister went to grace the occasion. I also want to express my appreciation for the splendid performance of our two football teams, especially the women’s netball team, which has qualified for the Africa Cup games.

Mr Chairperson, having said that, I appreciate the efforts of the New Dawn Government on the plight of the youths in the country. Yesterday, the hon. Minister, in his policy statement, outlined a number of programmes that are meant to benefit the youths of our country and, indeed, that is highly commendable.

Mr Chairperson, I have observed that there are various programmes in ministries targeted at youths. This is good because it entails mainstreaming –

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Chairperson, thank you for the opportunity to raise this point of order. As you are aware, I do not raise points of order unless circumstances are patently compelling that I do so.

Mr Chairperson, let me begin by welcoming my colleagues who were suspended and have returned to the House. It is a good feeling to see them around, and this is how it should be. I only hope that their return will not return anarchy to this House …

Laughter

Mr Kang’ombe: Wait!

Mr Mweetwa: … because in their absence, the House was very orderly and the decorum was as it should it be. So, they are welcome.

Mr B. Mpundu: Wait. Tamulati!

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Chairperson, my point of order is premised on the conventions and practices of this House, namely the maintenance of the decorum of this House as manifested by the conduct of hon. Members of Parliament.

Mr B. Mpundu: A point of order taking two hours? Is it a lecture?

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Chairperson, whether lawyers are in court or not, they carry the image of a lawyer. Whether hon. Members of Parliament are in this House or outside, they carry the image of this House. Sometime last week –

Mr B. Mpundu interjected.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member for Nkana, are you a Presiding Officer?

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Members!

May the hon. Minister resume his seat.

Hon. Member for Nkana, you are not a Presiding Officer to dictate how business should be transacted in this House. I am the only one who is mandated to do that. So, if I have not directed otherwise – You do not have the mandate to lecture this House.

May the hon. Minister continue.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Chairperson, I was just putting in place my point of order.

Mr Chairperson, a few days ago, we saw a video clip containing the image and voice of the Member of Parliament for Kamfinsa, my good friend, Hon. Kang’ombe, who was asking the youths of the Patriotic Front (PF) to rise against this Government and indicating that they are demanding for justice and that if that justice is not given, they would give it to themselves, in clear reference and preference to disorder and taking the law into their own hands.

Mr Chairperson, was the hon. Member for Kamfinsa, who is a Law-maker and carries the image of this House, in order to indicate to the nation that he is ready to lead the youths of the PF into taking the law into their own hands, a clear violation of the rule of law, when he knows that we must be the first ones to respect the laws that we make here?

Rev. Katuta: Question!

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Members!

Hon. Minister, what you have cited happened outside the House. So, that does not affect us. It is a procedural thing, but –

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Members!

I have guided. That happened outside. So, you can engage the necessary procedure if you so wish to, but that does not affect the Business of the House.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Let us proceed.

May the hon. Member for Kafue, Mrs Chonya, proceed.

Mrs Chonya: Mr Chairperson, his misconduct outside the House has disturbed the flow of my debate.

Mr Chairperson, I have observed that there are a number of programmes being implemented in various ministries meant to benefit youths in the country. However, it would be nice if there was a way of accounting for all the various activities that are being carried out to benefit the youths so that when put together, we actually weigh that combined effort against the size of the youth population in this country. As we know, youths constitute the largest percentage of citizens in this country. So, it would be good to know to what extent all the programmes are benefiting the huge number of youths. Otherwise, without such a co-ordinated effort, we risk doing too much without reaching the level we are striving for in meeting the needs of youths which, of course, relates to the need to continuously explore ways of giving more support to youths as we have tried to do through the various programmes that I have alluded to as well, as the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), which has a specific component of youth empowerment as well as bursaries.

Mr Chairperson, talking about bursaries, I am sure, all of us saw the video clip that went viral last week, showing the plight of the youths being sponsored under the CDF. It was a very sad situation, but that showed that we are lagging behind, and we need to do more to respond to the infrastructure needs of the youths and to build infrastructure to help them to acquire the relevant skills.

Mr Chairperson, my colleague, Hon. J. Chibuye, talked about an incomplete youth centre. I know that there are many incomplete youth centres in other constituencies, including the one in mine, which will be world-class, and people can go and check. I believe that it will be the biggest. However, it is at 80 per cent, and I am aware that in this year’s Budget, an allocation of K80 million will go towards its completion. Seeing that there are only a few days remaining before the year comes to an end, I am not sure whether the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning will release that K80 million to help the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts, who is determined to resolve the issue of infrastructure.

Mr Chairperson, like it was done when we wanted to procure vehicles for monitoring CDF projects and the police, money was withheld at the centre and then the vehicles were bought in bulk, which was very economical. In this case, if all the 150 constituencies put money together, we would have K250 million, which would be used to finish off that youth centre. In no time, we would be able to recruit all the youths from constituencies where there are no youth centres yet. That way, we would have done justice and provided an opportunity for those youths, and they would be guaranteed training of an acceptable standard that would be provided at the youth centre in Kafue. I hope, the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts and I can soon visit the facility that I am talking about, just to show the entire country. The facility is more like a university. If we, collectively, invested in that infrastructure, I am sure that it would help. If we did that next year, all the students can go there.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

The Deputy Chairperson: We have a lot of work to do. So, I will just allow two more hon. Members to debate and, that is Hon. Chitotela and Hon. Katakwe. Then the hon. Minister will respond.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the Vote for the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts.

Mr Chairperson, this is a very important ministry when it comes to the development of our nation. Where I come from, there is the saying that imiti ikula empanga, meaning that the children of today are the leaders of tomorrow. What we do and how we nurture the youths will determine our future as a country.

Mr Chairperson, today, I was reading the 2021 Budget Speech for the 2022 Budget. The hon. Minister stood here and assured the Zambian people that there was a lot of donor support and that there would be a youth resource centre in each district. I listened to that Budget Speech with interest, and I looked forward to the actualisation of that policy statement. When presenting the 2022 Budget Speech for the 2023 Budget, the hon. Minister explained the rate at which youth resource centres were being constructed and mentioned those that were expected to be completed. However, when presenting this year’s Budget Speech, the hon. Minister did not indicate the rate at which the youth resource centres are being constructed and in which districts in Zambia there will be those centres. This gap in terms of policy consistency leaves much to be desired, and it leaves many gaps in terms of youth development.

Mr Chairperson, last week, we adopted the Report of the Auditor-General from 2018 to 2022, which dealt with child labour. In that report, it was stated that even if we withdraw children from the labour force, there are no centres to take them. There are not enough facilities where we can take the youths for rehabilitation and make sure that they become responsible citizens in society.

Mr Chairperson, it would have been better for the hon. Minister to look at what we can do for the youths to develop. There has been a tilt towards sport, but the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts must also take interest in different sectors to promote the growth of various activities.

Mr Chairperson, I remember that when the hon. Minister was reading the 2021 Budget Speech for the 2022 Budget, he promised that the Government would construct centres like Mwange Youth Resettlement Scheme in Mporokoso. The hon. Minister further said that the ministry had written to provincial centres and asked them to look for places and that Senior Chief Chizela had provided land in Mufumbwe in the North-Western Province. To date, there has not been any meaningful development to point to the pronouncement that the hon. Minister made to the Zambian people in this House. The success of every activity is dependent on past performance, that is, where you are coming from, where you are and what you need to do for you to improve. It is not just about making flowery statements or pronouncements that are not backed by action, as that leaves a number of things hanging. So, I urge the hon. Minister to look at youth development as a key milestone.

Mr Chairperson, let me talk about the youth empowerment under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). I am a Member of Parliament, and I do not want to draw hon. Members into my debate. Considering that the only money that was disbursed in full in 2022 and 2023 was that allocated for grants, is there an hon. Member of Parliament who would say that in his/her constituency, there is 70 per cent success in terms of entrepreneurial investment? We need to educate Zambians and make them understand that consumption is not the best way and that what is ideal is investing in growing the economy. We cannot continue sharing poverty. If social spending is draining the National Treasury, let us suspend it and begin to put money where it matters the most. Let us invest in growing our economy. If youth resource centres and various developments that the hon. Minister pronounced in 2021 had become a reality, what could our country have been like?

Mr Chairperson, let me cite the example of the agriculture sector, which gives returns within the shortest possible time. If the K2 million or K4 billion that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has been allocating towards the CDF for consumption was allocated to the agricultural sector and a directive given that every province in Zambia comes up with State-owned farms specifically for men, we would grow enough maize, which would be sold to various countries and money would go to the Treasury. Then, we would share. However, we do things upside down. We begin by sharing before creating the wealth. I know that it is a difficult subject for social scientists to comprehend, but those who have done economics will understand that you cannot share poverty if you have created wealth. However, we will end up in a situation in which we will have nothing to share.

Mr Chairperson, you can have five cows, but if you do not fatten them and you just want to get milk from them, they will stop giving you milk and will be giving you blood. Eventually, those cows will die and you will not have where to get milk from. That is the difference between social scientists and economists. Social scientists want to eat where they have not planted. Let us begin by developing a culture of investment among youths then we can give out empowerment funds. After that, we are going to have many things to share. When we start distributing those things, we will have enough to share. However, if we do not do that, one day, we will not support social spending, and we will be in a crisis. We will fail to run certain programmes that we are running.

Mr Chairperson, I support the budget and urge the hon. Minister to look at the economic sector.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much. I am grateful to you for giving me the chance, on behalf of the people of Solwezi East, Mushindamo District, to add a few words to the debate on this Vote, which is for the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts.

Mr Chairperson, I understand that the largest part of the population of Zambia is youthful, but I want to talk about health.

Mr Chairperson, I believe that to have a future generation that can contribute meaningfully to national development, we need to have healthy youths. These days, the youths whom we have are more of a hybrid. Most of them are not physically fit. If you recall, during the recruitment of military personnel, it was stated that most youths were physically unfit to undergo military training. This calls for the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts to facilitate more youth activities, especially sport.

Mr Chairperson, the benefits of sport include discipline, physical fitness, alertness and good behaviour. If the energy that is supposed to be channelled to illicit behaviour is channelled to sport, there will be good sportsmanship. When many youths are involved in sporting activities, they will be deterred from getting involved in illicit behaviour. The Zambia National Netball Team has just won the African Cup because it was coerced to be together, promoting good behaviour, and that has paid off.

Mr Chairperson, if we want to see more youths participate in national development, the youths must be healthy. I say so, so that the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts begins advocating for more allocation. For instance, in each province, there can be sports fields like those here, in Lusaka. Just near here, there is Athletico Lusaka Sports Complex, the former Barcelona Football Academy. If such kind of fields were dotted around the country, many youths, girls and boys would be involved in sports activities. Even the Ministry of Health would spend less on curative measures as opposed to preventive measures because prevention is better than cure. So, if we allocated more resources to sports activities, we would have sports fields, swimming pools and cycling clubs, and the youths would participate in netball, high jump, shot put, javelin and cross country.

Mr Chairperson, Hon. J. Chibuye said that he was identified as a karateka when he was still young. Equally, when I was in Grade 8, I started training in martial arts, and it took me twenty years to rise to 3 Dan. I wish, there was a sporting field here. I was going to demonstrate nine katas; what we call karate dances.

Rev. Katuta: Question!

Interruptions

Mr Katakwe: Mr Chairperson, even if I look like this in stature, I can take on, at least, ten strong guys …

Hon. Members: Ah!

Mr Katakwe: … because of the skills that I developed in twenty years.

Laughter

Mr Katakwe: Mr Chairperson, what I am saying is that instead of one channelling one’s energy into evil issues, one can channel it into sports activities, and that takes a lot of time to master. In fact, the karate motto is ‘I promise to uphold the true spirit of karate and never to use the skills I am taught against any person or persons, except for the defence of myself, friends, family and in the in instance of extreme danger or unprovoked attack, and in the support of law and order’. So, when one trains in karate, one becomes a good citizen.

The Deputy Chairperson: Now, you want to be scaring us.

Laughter

Mr Katakwe: Mr Chairperson, you are more than welcome to experience that. I can do many demonstrations.

Mr Chairperson, if hon. Members of Parliament got involved in sports activities, they would not have to take blood pressure (BP) medicine because they would enhance their health. For instance, when I am in the constituency, I use a racing bike and, every week, I cycle for 50 km or 60 km, and that helps even the breathing rate and lung capacity to increase. What I am trying to advocate for is good health. For the youths to contribute to the development of Zambia, we need to invest heavily in sports activities.

Mr Chairperson, we are not allowed to debate ourselves, but most hon. Members of Parliament are not fit.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Katakwe: The youths who will be Members of Parliament in future need to be physically fit. So, we need to enhance their health. As I support this Vote, my plea is that we invest more in sports facilities. In my constituency, I want to see a place for –

Dr Kalila: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Dr Kalila: Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for allowing me to raise this point of order that is premised on Standing Order No. 65, which requires us to be factual.

Mr Chairperson, is the hon. Member in order to claim, without evidence, that he can take on ten strong guys like Hon. Mweemba Malambo, …

Laughter

Dr Kalila: … being a karateka? Is he in order to tell us that?

I seek your serious ruling, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: I think, the hon. Member was just trying to scare us.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: I think, he is the weakest in the House.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Katakwe, you may continue.

Mr Katakwe: Mr Chairperson, in fact, if there was a gymnasium or a cycling field at Parliament, I would have demonstrated. Every Saturday, we would be cycling for 60 km or 70 km.

Mr Chairperson, what I am saying is that we need to have youth activities in our constituencies and to construct sports fields so that in the evening, people can run or jog like they do in Lusaka. On behalf of the people of Solwezi East Constituency, let me end by saying that we must invest more in youth activities so that we can have a youthful cadre that is healthy. As they say, health is wealth. Without healthy bodies, we, as a nation, should not expect to perform or to develop.

Mr Chairperson, thank you very much, as I support this Vote.

The Deputy Chairperson. The hon. Minister of Tourism is the Acting hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts, and will wind up debate.

The Minister of Tourism (Mr Sikumba) (on behalf of the Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts (Mr Nkandu)): Mr Chairperson, from the outset, I would like to thank the six hon. Members who contributed favourably to the debate on the Vote and supported the Vote overwhelmingly, that is, Hon. Sialubalo, Hon. J. Chibuye, Hon. Mpundu, Hon. Chonya, …

Mr B. Mpundu: Ine?

Laughter

Mr Sikumba: … Hon. Chitotela and, indeed, our karateka, Hon. Katakwe.

Mr Chairperson, I just want to mention that in the realignment of various ministries, hon. Members have seen a few Budget lines being moved from one ministry to the other, and they know that the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts is one ministry that was realigned to hive off the Department of Arts, which was in the Ministry of Tourism, and has overlapping duties related to community development, small, medium and enterprises (SME) as well as some of the funds under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

Mr Chairperson, I will respond to some of the queries that were raised. Hon. Sialubalo thanked the ministry for being visible, and it will continue doing that. He also spoke about not using youths as tools of violence, and that is very clear. As the United Party for National Development (UPND), our mandate is to not use our children as tools of violence.

Rev. Katuta: Question!

Mr Sikumba: Mr Chairperson, in the previous Government, our boys and girls were paid nickels and pennies to cause havoc in cities. The hon. Member’s proposal that we work with hon. Members of Parliament in all 156 constituencies to create opportunities for skills centres dotted across our constituencies is very good.

Mr Chairperson, in view of the comments by Mr J. Chibuye, the hon. Member for Roan, indeed, it is important that we complete most youth resource centres. As we realign ministries, I think, it would be important, based on the feedback I got from other hon. Members of Parliament here, that the Ministry of Technology and Science starts incubating youths from youth resource centres. I strongly feel that would work out very well. To answer his query, the youth resource centre in his area has been allocated resources in 2024. So, he should rest assured that it will be completed, and the alumnus seated next to me will definitely go and have a look at it.

Mr Chairperson, in our quest to devolve responsibilities in the Government, the aspect of talent identification has been devolved to local authorities, as the local authorities are the ones in touch with the grassroots. We will also look at how best we can be in touch with some of our corporates. I remember very well that we used to have what we called the Airtel Rising Stars, and the organisers would go to the provinces to tap talent.

Mr Chairperson, Hon. C. Mpundu brought out the issue of understanding the challenges our colleagues who are on the other side of the law face, and that is the reason we have correctional centres. Correctional centres are no longer called prisons. I should state that the empowerment that we give does not discriminate. Indeed, for as long as you are Zambian and are between the ages of eighteen and thirty-five, you are definitely able to benefit from the youth empowerment programmes we have in the ministry.

Mr Chairperson, to take a leaf from what the hon. Member mentioned with regard to the punitive sentences given to people, that, obviously, is out of our ambit; it sits with the Ministry of Justice. I noticed that he talked about sentencing a seventeen-year-old to imprisonment with hard labour. A youth is one who is between eighteen and thirty-five years and, I think, that is an adult. If at all a youth is on the other side of the law, he/she will definitely be dealt with. However, let me make mention that when youths come out of correctional centres, we assume that they have repented. So, indeed, they will still fall into the same category as anybody else. Of course, I know that the people in correctional centres are given opportunities to be craftsmen, such as carpenters and welders, and we know that there are other things that happen there. So, we will engage our colleagues from the Ministry of Justice.

Mr Chairperson, Hon. Chonya, the Member for Kafue, spoke about resource centres. I am happy to note that the resource centre in Kafue is one of the biggest, as she stated. Indeed, these are some of the issues that we are going to deal with. I must make mention here that we have dealt with a number of youth resource centres from 2022 to 2023. This, obviously, is in relation to what Hon. Chitotela mentioned. We have spent close to K46 million to deal with twenty-three youth resource centres across the country. So, as much as we did not get donor support, we still got money from the Treasury to deal with some youth resource centres.

Mr Chairperson, regarding the idea that one hon. Member brought up with regard to how we managed to buy vehicles for monitoring projects and the police using the CDF and, obviously, we are going to buy ambulances using the CDF, I think, it would be better to raise this issue with hon. Members of Parliament to see how best we can build resource centres using the CDF, amongst many other things that we are doing with it. I think, Hon. Chitotela raised this matter. There are funds that were made readily available by the Treasury to look into youth resource centres. On building the youth centres, if we start engaging more donors, we can do that. I must make mention that donors have become more receptive to us as a country. I thank the Cabinet, through the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, for unlocking opportunities out there and wooing as much donor support as it possibly can.

Mr Chairperson, last but not the least, Hon. Katakwe raised a very important aspect. It is a known fact that most boys and girls who were earmarked to get into the defence forces, unfortunately, failed some physical tests. It is very important to be physically fit. Some of the boys and girls were obese and others had lifestyle diseases. I think, it is important that we exercise as much as we can. That, obviously, falls under the youth development that we are talking about and the youth resource centres that we have. When boys and girls out there apply for jobs, it is very important that we, as parents, encourage them to exercise or to just take a walk around the premises, the yard or the neighbourhood. It is very important that our children do that. Indeed, some of us were judokas when we were young and, quite frankly, I think, that is why we look very fit. We can stand for a long time when we are debating.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikumba: Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, I would like to thank the hon. Members of Parliament who contributed to the debate on the Vote, and I look forward to a fruitful 2024.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Vote 76 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 77 – (Ministry of Defence – K9,131,929,205)

The Minister of Defence (Mr Lufuma): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for the opportunity. I am greatly honoured to stand before this august House to present the estimates of expenditure for the Ministry of Defence for the fiscal year 1^st January to 31^st December, 2024.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to congratulate the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning on presenting an all-inclusive 2024 National Budget, whose theme is “Unlocking Economic Potential.”

Mr Chairperson, the 2024 budget estimates of expenditure are informed by:

the ministry’s mission, which is to preserve the sovereignty and territorial integrity for national peace and security;

the current economic fundamentals;

various Presidential pronouncements and the United Party for National Development (UPND) Manifesto;

the 2024-2026 Budget Call Circular; and

the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP).

Mr Chairperson, allow me to now highlight some of the major achievements for the 2023 Financial Year using the received funds. The approved budget for 2023 was K7,462,455,638. We got a Supplementary Budget of K956,346,657, and the amount disbursed as at 31^st September, 2023, was K6,046,082,759, giving a total of K8,418,802,295. Only K6,046,082,759 had been disbursed and utilised as of 30^th September, 2023.

Operations

Mr Chairperson, during the period under review, the ministry continued to monitor and provide land, maritime and airspace security through enhanced deployment of military personnel and equipment to protect and preserve the territorial integrity of the nation, as enshrined in the ministry’s mandate.

Mr Chairperson, in a quest to remain part of the global community, insofar as maintenance of peace and security is concerned, the ministry continued to participate in peace-keeping and support operations in the region and beyond. In that regard, the ministry continued to deploy military and auxiliary personnel in the Central African Republic (CAR) and Cabo Delgado in Mozambique as well as military observers in other conflict-afflicted nations within and beyond the region.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to inform this august House that in recognition of our defence forces’ contribution and exemplary performance in peace-keeping and support operations, the United Nations (UN) appointed Lt. Gen. Humphrey Nyone as the first Zambian Force Commander for the UN Multi-dimensional Integrated Stabilisation Mission in Central African Republic (MINUSCA).

Mr Chairperson, in fulfilment of commitments by the New Dawn Government, the President of the Republic of Zambia and Commander-in-Chief of the Defence Forces, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, signed Statutory Instrument No. 70 of 2022, which enabled defence force personnel on the UN and other multilateral sanction peace operations to be paid 100 per cent of the allowances due to them. I am, therefore, pleased to report that this and other measures implemented by this listening Government have uplifted the welfare and morale of our defence personnel.

Food Security

Mr Chairperson, in support of the Government policy on food security aimed at transforming Zambia’s agricultural sector into a regional food basket, the ministry achieved the following:

acquired 2,514 ha for production of soya beans, wheat and tobacco;

acquired 40,000 ha of land across the country for crop and livestock production; and

expanded fish ponds at the Zambia National Service (ZNS) in Chanyanya, constructed twenty-three ponds and stocked thirteen fish ponds with 632,000 fingerlings.

Infrastructure Development and Rehabilitation

Mr Chairperson, during the period under review, the ministry continued constructing and rehabilitating feeder roads, bridges and dams throughout the country. In this regard, the following projects were completed:

various feeder roads, 203 km of primary feeder roads, Mwinilunga/Manyinga Road (RD86), Mulenga/Kyafukuma Road (U20), Munkonchi/Luano Road and Choma/Masuku Road;

four dams in Sinazongwe, Monze, Solwezi and Luwingu districts; and

Acrow Bridges at Chiwema and Kasombo in Mumbwa and Kabompo, respectively.

Mr Chairperson, in collaboration with the Road Development Agency (RDA), the ministry is currently carrying out maintenance works on the 54.5 km stretch (M10) Livingstone/Sesheke Road as well as 116 km stretch of the (T5) Solwezi/Mwinilunga Road. Further, the ministry is also undertaking rehabilitation works on a 70 km stretch on the Matebele/Shangombo Road.

Mr Chairperson, in line with the Presidential directive to open up the Northern Circuit to the rest of Zambia, I wish to report to this august House that the ministry, through the ZNS, has completed earthworks and perimeter fencing of Kasama Airport in the Northern Province, which was officially opened a few weeks ago.

Water Reticulation

Mr Chairperson, in a quest to alleviate water and sanitation challenges in military cantonments, the ministry embarked on works to improve the water reticulation system, beginning with military cantonments in Lusaka Province, Central Province and on the Copperbelt Province. All these efforts are aimed at bettering the lives of our men and women in uniform and their families.

Aid to Civil Authorities

Mr Chairperson, the ministry remains resolute in promoting civil military relations. To this end, the ministry continued to collaborate with State organs and institutions in times of public emergencies and national disasters. During the period under review, the ministry provided support to food victims and participated in the haulage of maize across the country. Further, the ministry rendered support in combating infernos and conducted air evacuations. Just recently, we were in Chingola on the Copperbelt, helping with the disaster that just happened there. Our troops are there doing the needful.

Milling Plants

Mr Chairperson, with regard to the operationalisation of three milling plants under the ZNS, I wish to report that production is steadily increasing. It is, therefore, envisaged that once additional milling plants are procured and operationalised, that will help to stabilise the price of mealie meal in the country which, I think, everybody has seen. In addition, the ministry has entered into a joint venture with Muss Milling in Chingola on the Copperbelt Province where, currently, production stands at over 3,000 x 25 kg bags of mealie meal per day.

2024 Budget Highlights

Mr Chairperson, allow me now to give an overview of the ministry’s budget for 2024. The Ministry of Defence’s budget estimates for the year beginning 1^st January to 31^st December, 2024, is K9,131,929,205. This represents a 22 per cent upward adjustment to the approved 2023 budget of K7,462,455,638. Of the 2024 budget estimates, K5,927,543,123, representing 79.43 per cent of the total budget, will go towards personal emoluments while the balance of K1,534,912,510, representing 21 per cent, will be spent on recurrent departmental charges and infrastructure development, among other activities.

Mr Chairperson, having given this budget overview, allow me, now, to proceed with key features of the ministry’s 2024 budget and priorities on which the budget will be used.

Defence and Security

Mr Chairperson, in order to continue safeguarding the territorial integrity of the nation and maintaining world peace, the ministry will continue deploying men and women in uniform –

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Minister!

The hon. Minister’s time expired.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Minister, may you wind up. Your time is up.

Mr Lufuma: Thank you very much for your guidance, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Chairperson, the ministry will continue deploying men and women in uniform on both local and international fronts. In this regard, part of this budget will go towards the recruitment of officers and regular soldiers, with a target of 8,000, to upscale operational capacity and presence in all the ten provinces. This is also aimed at reducing youth unemployment. So, we are going to recruit and enhance our productivity in the agricultural sector, and we shall also embark on modernising the defence forces.

Mr Chairperson, as I conclude, allow me to express my profound gratitude to Mr Hakainde Hichilema, President of the Republic of Zambia and Commander-in-Chief of the Defence Forces, and to the hon. Members of this august House for their continued support towards ensuring that the ministry fulfils its mandate of defending the country’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. The ministry pledges to continue contributing to national food security and economic development through the various economic ventures highlighted above. We are committed to contributing fully to the social and economic transformation agenda of the UPND and the New Dawn Government.

Mr Chairperson, may I also thank the men and women in uniform for carrying out their duties with integrity, professionalism, commitment and dedication. I now call upon hon. Members of this august House to fully and unanimously support the ministry’s budget estimates for 2024 as presented.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much. I must say, it is good to be back. As you can see, …

Mr Samakayi: Question!

Mr B. Mpundu: … despite the withholding of allowances, I am still fit, fine and healthy. So, it is good to be back.

Mr Chairperson, we are discussing Vote 77, which is for the Ministry of Defence. I love the hon. Minister of Defence, as he is a sober man. So, I will support the allocation to this ministry.

Rev. Katuta: Hear, hear!

Mr B. Mpundu: Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Defence has the mandate of maintaining internal and external security through the preservation, protection and defence of the country in a professional manner in order to maintain the peace and security of the citizenry. Those are very important words that should be underlined. The role of the defence forces is to maintain the peace and security of the citizenry. It does not matter that we have never been at war since we got Independence. The Ministry of Defence still has the mandate of being on the lookout so that the citizenry is not under threat. In executing this mandate, the three security wings; the Zambia Army, the Zambia Air Force (ZAF) and the Zambia National Service (ZNS), are at the disposal of the ministry. These are very important wings that should ensure that the ministry’s mandate is discharged.

Mr Chairperson, this ministry requires a lot of money. In other countries, like the United States of America (USA), huge sums of money are allocated towards security. You hear the USA giving other countries, like Egypt, huge sums of money. Every year, the USA gives some countries a billion Dollars for security. So, one can see how some countries value their defence departments. We also need to continue allocating huge sums of money to the ministry, which is why when I was away, I was at pains to see money being wasted. People were sharing money in fake compensations.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr B. Mpundu: Mr Chairperson, that money must be preserved.

Mr Samakayi: Question!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

May you resume your seat.

We are now debating Vote 77, which is for the Ministry of Defence, and the policy statement has been presented. So, you should talk about what has been presented to the House vis-a-vis the Ministry of Defence. You are talking about compensation, which is neither here nor there. Who are you to determine who should be compensated or not?

May you continue and ensure that you do not talk about compensation.

Mr B. Mpundu: Mr Chairperson, I wish you did not engage in our debates because when you do so, you will lose yourself. We are talking about allocating money.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr B. Mpundu: Mr Chairperson, we are talking about preserving national resources so they can go towards critical areas.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

I have guided you. There is no need for you to start challenging me. If you continue, the door is open.

Mr B. Mpundu: Mr Chairperson, for the sake of representing my people, I am prepared to go anytime.

Mr Chairperson, let me inform this House that when uniformed men – According to the statement, the mandate of the ministry is to maintain the peace and security of the citizenry. The two, peace and security, are contrary to the actions of members of the security wings who are out, shooting at people. There is a gentleman from Luapula Province who is in the University Teaching Hospital (UTH), who was shot at by military personnel, and there is a boy who was shot at in Kankoyo. The mandate of the ministry is to preserve and maintain peace and security. So, we do not expect to see the men and women in uniform, who are being given the colossal sum of K9,131,929,205, doing the opposite; taking away life. We expect them to be professional because the core mandate of the security wings is to act professionally.

Mr Chairperson, under the charge of the hon. Minister of Defence are three wings, and I will start with the Zambia National Service (ZNS). I am a ZNS boy, as I grew up in the ZNS. My late father used to work in the ZNS camp in Kitwe, and he was a hard worker. The ZNS was created as a skills and production wing of the Ministry of Defence. The problem that we have today, of the shortage of mealie meal, would not be there if we had invested in that defence wing so that it could produce as much as possible for the consumption of the citizenry. Some roofs are being blown off because of sub-standard works, but these works can easily be done professionally if the ZNS was involved. I remember that my father got promoted to the rank of Staff Sergeant without proper education because of having proved his hard work when Mulungushi Textiles was being constructed.

Mr Chairperson, the ZNS is an important wing of the Ministry of Defence. We must do more and invest in it so that it can preserve the resources of this country and ensure that mukula does not go out of this country because checkpoints have been done away with. That is what we must be using the defence forces for. Since checkpoints have been done away with, the defence forces must be on the lookout so that our resources are not taken out by selfish individuals. We must add value to them so that the country can have enough resources to attend to other needs.

Mr Chairperson, I have a problem with spending US$194 million, according to the report that I read on social media, on buying a Presidential jet equipped with modern technology to safeguard the life of our President.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

I have been listening to your debate.

Mr B. Mpundu: So?

The Deputy Chairperson: You should be factual. You spoke about people being shot at …

Mr B. Mpundu: Ehe!

Hon. Government Members: Question!

The Deputy Chairperson: … but you do not have evidence to substantiate the claim. We cannot be seated here, wasting taxpayers’ money, on listening to your debate based on information that you browsed on social media. We have more serious work to do. Anything that you get from social media should remain at home. Here, we deal with facts. So, you cannot bring the name of the President into disrepute based on your social media interaction. Be factual as you debate.

Mr B. Mpundu: Mr Chairperson, because you are out of touch with facts, there is a boy in Kankoyo who was shot at by ZNS officers. That is a fact.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

I have guided you.

Mr B. Mpundu: You want facts. The fact, Sir, is that the Government –

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

May you resume your seat.

Hon. Katuta, you may take the Floor.

Mr B. Mpundu: What facts does he want if that is not a fact?

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Mr Chairperson, thank you for allowing me, on behalf of the people of Chienge, to contribute to the debate on this very important Budget line.

Mr B. Mpundu interjected.

Rev. Katuta: Mr Chairperson, as alluded to by the previous debater, this ministry is supposed to get a bigger share of the National Budget.

Mr B. Mpundu interjected.

The Deputy Chairperson: Quit making running commentaries, hon. Member for Nkana.

You may continue, hon. Member for Chienge.

Rev. Katuta: Mr Chairperson, there is a report showing that Zambia is in danger of having –

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Continue, hon. Member.

Rev. Katuta: Mr Chairperson, food security in Zambia is at a risk, and we are likely to have a food shortage in our country. I have always contributed to the debate on the Vote for the Ministry of Defence, and I have always wondered why we only have 40,000 ha to utilise. In the North-Western Province, there are 500,000 ha of land in Maheba. I have been expecting the Government to take over that land, relocate the people who are there and give it to the Ministry of Defence.

Mr Chairperson, I appreciate what the hon. Minister of Defence said in the policy statement. However, since this country is heavily indebted, I have been expecting the Ministry of Defence to announce to Zambians that we are now growing icamba because that is where we expect to get –

Interruptions

Rev. Katuta: I beg your pardon? What is icamba called in English? I know that it is called icamba in vernacular.

Hon. Opposition Member: Ibange!

Rev. Katuta: Ibange.

Mr Mubanga: Dagga.

Rev. Katuta: Dagga. That is Afrikaans. So, even in English, is it called dagga? Okay.

Mr Chairperson, we are heavily indebted, but we only concentrate on minerals, which do not even give us value because we do not own them, despite their being in our country. Had we started growing icamba, by now, we would not be talking of the International Monetary Fund (IMF). I have been wondering why we have not done that. I heard that Mwense, and I think Kalomo, had been identified as farming blocks to be used for cultivating ibange, but what is happening? Had that happened, by now, we would not be talking about the debt. We would have focused on making money because the money that we would get from ibange is good money.

Mr Chairperson, growing only maize and exporting it to the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and other places will not help us to come out of our predicament. We are supposed to grow icamba because it has more value. I think, icamba is close to sugilite in terms of value. So, I ask the Ministry of Defence to go back to the drawing table. Good quality icamba is found in the Eastern Province, I hope, not in Luangeni. That is where we find the –

Laughter

Rev. Katuta: It is a fact, and I am serious. I was told that good quality icamba is found in the Eastern Province, most likely in Luangeni.

Interruptions

Rev Katuta: Mr Chairperson, it is a fact. High quality icamba in Zambia is found in the Eastern Province. If the officers from the ministry can go to the Eastern Province and get it –

Mr Mtolo: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mtolo: Mr Chairperson, I rise on a serious point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65.

Mr Chairperson, can the hon. Member tell us how she identified the quality, efficacy and potency of what we grow in the Eastern Province compared with what she normally takes.

Laughter

Mr Mtolo: Could she, please, clarify.

The Deputy Chairperson: I know that the hon. Member is talking from experience after being around the country and meeting the hardest. So, I think, she is talking from experience of what she has had.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: May the hon. Member continue.

Rev. Katuta: Mr Chairperson, I know that the guilty are always afraid. Somebody must be guilty. However, the truth of the matter is that there is a report to the effect that the chamba that is grown in the Eastern Province is of high quality.

Mr Chairperson, I support this budget. I am very passionate about the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security, the Ministry of Defence and the Ministry of Health because the things that these ministries do affect all Zambians. So, when it comes to that, there are no politics. We need that chamba from the Eastern Province. I know why the hon. Minister of Agriculture stood up. He wants to hide that quality, but we need it.

Mr Chairperson, let me, again, make an appeal to the Ministry of Defence. This is my seventh year in this august House, and I have been talking about chamba from the time that it was suggested that its cultivation be legalised. I hope that in the next Budget Speech, we will be told that the 40,000 ha that we are talking about will be used to cultivate icamba, unlike giving licences to investors or any other Zambian.

Mr Chairperson, that is all I wanted to say. May the Government look into growing icamba so that we can start exporting it, for medicinal purposes, of course, and can make revenue to settle the debt that the Government has.

Mr Chairperson, with those few remarks, I would like to tell the hon. Members from the Eastern Province, such as those from Luangeni, that we need that chamba.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Katakwe: Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me the chance to add my voice to the debate on Vote 77, which is for the Ministry of Defence.

Mr Chairperson, the mandate of the Ministry of Defence is as follows:

“Maintain internal and external security, preservation, protection, defence of the country in a professional manner in order to maintain peace and security for the citizenry and contribute to national development.”

Mr Chairperson, I will stress a few things in this regard. The hon. Minister talked about food security, and we appreciate the effort that the Zambia National Service (ZNS), for instance, is making to contribute to food security. Recently, I heard the Zambia Air Force (ZAF) Commander in Kasama talk about ZAF acquiring land and engaging in farming, which is a welcome idea. That requires the Ministry of Defence to be allocated more resources, like we heard from other hon. Members who have debated. Indeed, we need to see more land being given to the defence forces. I know that the ZNS has been pushing for land in Mushindamo District and that the Chief agreed to give it some land so that it can establish farms and a milling plant.

Mr Chairperson, that needs to be encouraged, and we need to see more involvement of our men and women in uniform in agricultural production so that they can provide the much-needed food security for our nation. We want to see ZAF and ZNS officers, with their calisthenic skills, ensure that hunger is kicked out of our homes. We also want to see the correctional service and Zambia Police Service get involved. We know that the police in Lilayi are skilled in farming. So, we need to see them grow more vegetables so that we can enhance our health.

Mr Chairperson, relating to security, I come from a border area, and I know that the ZNS has been doing a good job, but I call upon the ministry to allocate more resources to it, especially when it comes to transport. ZNS officers in my district do not even have a bicycle or motorcycle. How can they provide security in the border area? The last time I was in Chililabombwe, which is a border area, I found people from the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) putting firewood and charcoal in wrecked minibuses on the Zambian side and trucks from the DRC loaded with our timber, depleting our forests in that area. However, ZNS officers say that they do not have anything to use to patrol the area. So, what kind of security are they providing if they just allow people from the DRC to freely walk into our country and cut timber, causing deforestation? So, more resources need to be allocated to this ministry so that our men and women in uniform in border areas are provided with transport. When you tell the officers that there is an issue somewhere, it takes two or three days for them to attend to it. Last time, I called the hon. Minister of Defence and told him that there were some issues on the border, but it was difficult for the officers to patrol the area because of a lack of transport. How can officers just be dumped in border areas and be told to provide security with no transport? So, the hon. Minister should look into that.

Mr Chairperson, I remember that when we were young, there were what we used to call ba mobilo, Mobile Units in border areas. The officers who operated from those units during the time of Dr Kenneth Kaunda and the Government that followed had vehicles we called arrows; small, but portable vehicles for the terrain. However, this time, there is nothing. Officers are just stationed at Kilumba and Kalindi stations with nothing. If you go and see how they live, you will wonder. If anything bordering on security happens there, are they going to respond immediately? Worse still, the communication towers in those areas are not very effective.

Mr Chairperson, the people in our border areas need to be provided with communication systems. If you tried to call the District Joint Operational Committee (DJOC) at the border, you will take, maybe, three or four hours to get in touch with it because there is no network. What kind of security is that? We need to see to it that more resources are allocated to this ministry, and the Ministry of Technology and Science needs to ensure that there are communication towers in our border areas so that anything concerning security is quickly responded to.

Mr Chairperson, I want to emphasise that our men and women in uniform should be professional. I am glad that the hon. Minister is in touch with our chiefs to resolve the issue in our border areas. Some chiefs lamented, just as I have been doing here, but, at least, there is an assurance that the issue will be resolved. I emphasise that we need our men and women to be professional, instead of getting compromised. When they are sent to border areas, they have no vehicles for patrolling, and they get involved in illicit activities. They beat up people transporting one meda of maize to the border, leaving the bourgeoisie with trucks taking mealie meal and maize to the border area. Poor citizens in Chief Chikola and Chief Musaka are being beaten up day in and day out. So, our men and women in uniform should have the much-needed facilities so that they can provide security and not beat people up, and they should be professional.

Mr Chairperson, I thought, I needed to add my voice on this issue. However, more resources need to be allocated to this ministry. Next time I go to the constituency, I want to be told that ZNS officers have a vehicle or motorcycles for patrolling the border area.

I support this Vote and thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Mr Chairperson, let me also join my hon. Colleagues in supporting the Vote for the Ministry of Defence.

Mr Chairperson, clearly, the mandate of our defence wings is to protect this country, and they have done so since time immemorial. We enjoy peace. We wake up and, at times, insult one another, as politicians, freely knowing that the security of our country is in safe hands. For that, we are very grateful.

Mr Chairperson, serving in the defence force in other countries like the United States of America (USA) and Britain is a privilege. Families are recognised based on their service to the country through the defence force.

Mr Chairperson, the amount of money that has been allocated to our defence forces is insufficient. We are lucky that we are a peaceful nation, but the world is changing. Political dynamics and geopolitics are changing. Having looked at the amount allocated to the ministry, I think, we can do better. Our men and women in uniform should be equipped with almost everything. How many helicopters does the Zambia National Service (ZNS) own? It is like we believe that most of these machines should only be owned by the Zambia Airforce (ZAF). To the contrary, almost all defence wings should be fully equipped with what they need to protect this country.

Mr Chairperson, the defence force should be the centre of attraction for intellectually-gifted children because that is where innovation comes from. We are talking about the Internet and 5G network, which have been given to us, civilians, to use, but these are things that were developed in the defence sector. So, if we, as a nation, are to move forward, we should talk about road infrastructure. Most developed countries have their road infrastructure designed to meet security requirements. How quickly, for example, should we have a situation there, would our security forces be able to reach Tunduma Border? How quickly would they be able to reach Kalabo? Defence forces are the ones who should design that system. Going forward, my proposal is that we should attract the best, in terms of intellect, into the defence forces because that is where the best doctors and engineers should be. Have we, as a nation, made this deliberate policy? Probably, the answer is no.

Mr Chairperson, in view of the amount allocated to the ministry, the people of Chama South are of the view that the hon. Minister should bring a supplementary budget, which we will be able to approve. Let us play with everything else, but not the needs of our defence forces.

Mr Chairperson, a barrack was under construction here in the Kamwala/Libala area, but its construction has stalled. We should not allow that. Next year, the Government should complete the barrack so that our defence personnel have decent housing.

Mr Chairperson, I am an advocate of the Government completely scraping off the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) because it has not benefited our people. There have been scandals involving the supply of fertiliser, and many other people are benefiting. Actually, we have kept that programme particularly to benefit individuals. So, I am of the view that our defence wings, particularly the Zambia National Service (ZNS), are capable of producing strategic food reserves. I know the man in charge of the ZNS. When we were at the Copperbelt University (CBU), he was a captain, but now he is General Solochi. He is capable of giving us everything that we need. So, the hon. Minister should have a discussion with the hon. Minister of Agriculture so that all the fertiliser for strategic food reserves is taken to the ZNS. The people should be moved to the loan scheme, as simple as that, and they will produce. There has been talk about giving 10 per cent of the land to foreigners, but that is not even required. We have capable men. If possible, we should reintroduce the programme of our children going to ZNS farms after graduating. That is what brings about patriotism in the nation.

Mr Chairperson, I totally support this Vote on the condition that the hon. Minister brings a supplementary budget so that we allocate more money towards farming equipment and other equipment, including the completion of the beautiful barrack in Lusaka South and the road infrastructure. The Government is able to handle all that.

Mr Chairperson, with those few remarks, I wish to support the Vote.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for the opportunity to wind up debate on Vote 77, which is for the Ministry of Defence.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to take this opportunity to thank Hon. Kang’ombe, who was the first to debate; Hon. Katuta; Hon. Katakwe; and the hon. Member for Chama South. I think, it is obvious that all the hon. Members who debated and, I am sure, even those who have not debated, are in full support of the Vote. Apart from that, hon. Members mentioned the inadequacy of the budget for most of the activities and operations under the Ministry of Defence. However, as we all know, resources are always limited. So, I am sure, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning is looking into this and has done its best to apportion what is required for us, as the Ministry of Defence, to be able to provide some of the services in order to preserve the peace and integrity of this country.

Mr Chairperson, we are, as much as possible, making sure that our officers, the men and women in uniform, are as professional as they can be. Yes, they may lack operational resources, for example, vehicles, like Hon. Katakwe pointed out. Of course, that is a long-term issue, but it is provided for in part in the budget that we are supporting and are going to pass.

Mr Chairperson, I want to correct the perception on the issue of the Presidential jet that was brought up by Hon. Kang’ombe, which is very important and might be misleading. This Administration has not bought any Presidential jet at all. The only Presidential jet that was bought, as you know, which was even debated here, on the Floor of this House, is the one that the previous Administration bought at approximately US$120 million. So, that clip on social media accusing this Government of having bought another Presidential jet is totally false. To the contrary, the Presidential jet that was bought by the previous Administration is due for disposal, as I had indicated. Anytime, the jet will be disposed of, and we shall buy one that is reasonable, which the President will then be able to use.

Mr Chairperson, in terms of agriculture, the Ministry of Defence is very serious about ensuring that not only the ZNS, but also the Zambia Army as well as ZAF, seriously engage in agricultural production. So, we are going to acquire land for that purpose in every province.

Mr Chairperson, concerning the cultivation of chamba or cannabis, as Rev. Katuta indicated, we are seriously considering doing that and we will be in production this coming fiscal year. Seriously, that activity is a money spinner, and the ZNS, which is supposed to be responsible for the same, will engage in it and start bringing revenue into this country.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank the hon. Members most sincerely for supporting this Vote, which is for the Zambian defence forces. It is very important for peace and tranquillity.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Vote 77 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

The Deputy Chairperson: By prior arrangement, we are going to consider Vote 80, which is for the Ministry of Education, instead of Vote 66, which is for the Ministry of Technology and Science.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMITTEE in the

Chair]

VOTE 80 – (Ministry of Education – K23,169,004,172)

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima): Mr Chairperson, may I take this opportunity to thank you for allowing me to present the policy statement for Vote 80, which is for the Ministry of Education, in support of the estimates of revenue and expenditure for the year 2024.

Mr Chairperson, the mandate of the ministry is to formulate and implement Government policies as provided for in Government Gazette Notice No. 1123 of 2021. In implementing its mandate, the ministry is guided by its vision, that is: “To provide quality lifelong education for all which is accessible, inclusive and relevant to individual and national and global needs aligned to the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP) and Sustainable Development Goal (SDG) No. 4”.

Outline of the Achievements Made in 2023

Mr Chairperson, the 2023 budgetary allocation to the ministry was K20.3 billion, out of which K15.2 billion was for personal emoluments while K5.1 billion was for non-personal emoluments. The achievements made are discussed below:

Early Childhood Education

Mr Chairperson, the objective of this programme is to secure quantitative and qualitative improvement in Early Childhood Education (ECE) service delivery through guidelines and standards, and increasing the proportion of three-year-old to six-year-old children who have equitable access to ECE.

Mr Chairperson, during the period under review, the ministry recorded the following achievements:

500 ECE centres were annexed to primary schools;
in a bid to improve access, twenty ECE hubs were constructed countrywide, resulting in 284,000 children aged from three years to six years accessing ECE;
2,285 teachers were recruited between 2021 and 2023; and
the ECE curriculum was reviewed in readiness for curriculum reform.

Primary Education

Mr Chairperson, the objective of this programme is to provide free and compulsory education to all learners from Grades 1 to 7.

Mr Chairperson, during the period under review, the ministry recorded the following achievements:

enrolments under this sub-sector grew from 3.6 million in 2021 to 4.5 million children in 2023;
1,264,845 teaching and learning materials were procured and delivered countrywide;
teacher preparedness and learner’s skills acquisition were improved, especially in reading and numeracy; and
26,292 primary teachers were recruited during the period between 2021 and 2023.

Secondary Education

Mr Chairperson, the objective of this programme is to ensure quality education standards by improving student-teacher contact hours and increasing the proportion of fully qualified teachers, gender equity and parity, and a two-tier secondary education system.

Mr Chairperson, during the period under review, the ministry recorded the following achievements:

constructed eighty-two secondary schools under the Zambia Education Enhanced Project (ZEEP), consisting of 410 classrooms, which translated into the creation of 23,124 spaces;
out of the eighty-two projects, completed forty-one schools, which are operational, while the remaining forty-one schools are near completion, with minor works currently being finalised;
of the eighty-two schools, ten have weekly boarding units for girls with the capacity of forty-four bed spaces each; and
recruited 3,451 teachers in the sub-sector.

Youth and Adult Literacy

Mr Chairperson, the objective of this programme is to increase youth and adult literacy levels through literacy and functional literacy education that is focused on skills development.

Mr Chairperson, during the period under review, the ministry recorded the following achievements:

established 106 youth and adult literacy education centres across the country;

enrolled additional 500 learners;

printed and distributed 2,000 Yale books;

enrolled 27,600 out-of-school children for increased access to all educational levels;

continued enrolling youths for skills training in schools for continued education nationwide;

developed 3,456 educational Electronic Content (e-Content) teaching and learning materials;

continued enhancing quality education provision through educational broadcasting services, via radio and television; and

developed 500 radio and television lessons as well as implementing cross-cutting programmes.

University Education

Mr Chairperson, during the period under review, the ministry recorded the following achievements:

concluded the baseline study that proposed a reform programme aimed at improving efficiencies in public universities;

reviewed the University Financing Strategy, and is working on a new financing strategy for public universities;

facilitated the signing of memoranda of understanding (MoUs) between public universities and foreign universities to enhance research, collaboration and exchange programmes for both staff and students;
appointed university councils in all the eight public universities and boards of statutory bodies, namely the Higher Education Authority (HEA) and the Higher Education Loans and Scholarship Board (HELSB);

restored meal allowances for students in public universities;

enhanced public-private partnerships (PPP) in universities;

supported 27,623 with student loans and scholarships;

continued paying all outstanding interim payment certificates (IPCs) for contractors in public universities; and
continued constructing university infrastructure.

Management and Support Services

Mr Chairperson, in the period under review, the ministry provided cross-cutting support to core programmes through management and support programmes, resulting in:

prudent utilisation of resources and efficient delivery of services;

rollout of the Integrated Financial Management Information System (IFIMIS) to all the ten Provincial Education Offices (PEOs);

reduced audit queries by strengthening administrative systems; and

finalised the development of a strategic plan, which I will launch soon.

2024 Budget Estimates and Policy Direction

Mr Chairperson, let me now outline the 2024 estimated expenditure. The 2024 budgetary allocation to the Ministry of Education stands at K23.2 billion, compared with the K20.3 billion allocated in 2023, representing a 14.1 per cent increment.

ECE

Mr Chairperson, the allocation for ECE has increased from K462.2 million in 2023 to K529 million in 2024. This is attributed to the Government’s effort to enhance ECE through the Zambia Enhancement of Early Learning Project (ZEELP), with support from the Global Partnership for Education and Increase Allocation for School Grants.

Primary Education

Mr Chairperson, being the largest sub-sector and providing education for Grades 1 to 7, the Primary Education Programme has been allocated K13.3 billion in 2024, compared with K12.2 billion in 2023. The increase is largely attributed to increased enrolments and continued increases in school grants.

Secondary Education

Mr Chairperson, the ministry has increased the allocation to the Secondary Education Programme from K4.97 billion in 2023 to K5.51 billion in 2024. This is largely attributed to the increased personal emoluments as a result of teacher recruitment. In addition, K1 billion has been allocated towards capital expenditure under the programme, largely for the completion of the construction of school infrastructure and rehabilitation of school-managed weekly boarding facilities. Out of this amount, K630 million has been allocated towards the ZEELP for the construction of 120 secondary schools countrywide.

Youth and Adult Literacy

Mr Chairperson, the Youth and Adult Literacy Programme delivers benefits that are far beyond mere schooling and literacy. Therefore, the Government is determined to ensure that the category of these learners is not excluded from receiving education. This programme has, therefore, been allocated K5.4 million.

University Education

Mr Chairperson, in 2023, the Government reinstated meal allowances for eligible students in public universities. The Government has gone a step further to ensure that the academic and economic welfare of students is improved by increasing the allocation to this programme to K2 billion in 2024, compared with the K1.55 billion allocated in 2021. The increase in the allocation will facilitate an increase in the number of student loan beneficiaries and infrastructure development. Further, the Government has also allocated K1.2 billion to support student loans and scholarships, of which K43.9 million has been allocated for tertiary scholarships for girls who were supported under the Keeping Girls in School (KGS) Initiative at the secondary school level.

Management and Support Services

Mr Chairperson, to ensure efficiency and effectiveness in service delivery at all levels, the ministry has allocated K1.8 billion to this programme.

Mr Chairperson, I wish to conclude by stating that the ministry remains committed to the overall management and administration of early childhood, primary, secondary, youth and adult literacy, university and teacher training, licensing and enforcement of standards, and alternative modes of education provisions.

Mr Chairperson, I now call upon the hon. Members of this august House to support the budget estimates for Vote 80.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Ms Sefulo (Mwandi): Mr Chairperson, thank you for allowing me to contribute to the debate on this Vote. Let me begin by saying that I am in total support of the Vote.

Mr Chairperson, I thank the New Dawn Government for increasing the budget for education. It means a lot not only to the children who are in rural set-ups, but also to the children of Zambia generally. Education is an equaliser, and investing in it is another mechanism that we can use to alleviate poverty.

Mr Chairperson, as I support this budget, I want to bring to the attention of the hon. Minister the issue regarding secondary schools. Through the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), we are doing a lot to increase the capacity of primary schools, but primary schools are not being supported by the secondary schools that are there. For example, in Mwandi, there are only two Government secondary schools, but in view of the free education that the Government has introduced, there are many learners from Early Childhood Education (ECE) to Grade 9. So, when the pupils get to Grade 10, it is difficult for them to be in school because the people of Mwandi are not prioritised, meaning that children from elsewhere can go to those schools. When our children pass to go to Grade 10, they find the schools full and are not accommodated within the constituency. My plea is that the Ministry of Education expands the capacity of secondary schools in our respective constituencies.

Mr Chairperson, let me talk about the establishments, which have also been a pain. Of the two secondary schools in Mwandi that I mentioned, one of them does not have a full staff establishment to date. That means that the teachers who teach at that school do not get the salaries that they are supposed to get, and that is discouraging. So, we need to find a way of ensuring that the schools that are there – I know that this is not something that was brought about by the New Dawn Government, but the current Government needs to resolve it.

Mr Chairperson, I support the recruitment of teachers. I am grateful that the Government has continued on the trajectory of employing teachers. Further, I am happy that the recruitment is decentralised and that even Mwandi gets a fair share.

Mr Chairperson, I am also happy that the Government is investing in ECE. That is important because you tap the talent of a child between the ages of three and six. Parents should actually invest in a child when it is between three and eight years, and the results will show much later. I also want to mention that a child does not only learn in class, but also outside the classroom. So, we should also invest in services that can allow children to learn from outside the classroom.

Mr Chairperson, let me state that there are currently forty-seven schools in Mwandi. Of those, only thirteen are linked to the Internet. So, the children at the other schools are finding it difficult to learn computer studies. So, I am appealing to the Ministry of Education to work with the Ministry of Technology and Science to ensure that our children have access to Internet services. The children who are learning in Mwandi should have the same opportunities as those who are learning in Lusaka because when it comes to applying for bursaries, the Government does not consider the fact that the children from Mwandi did not have Internet services. The children from there still compete with the children from Lusaka. So, I look forward to schools in Mwandi having Internet services.

Mr Chairperson, let me also make mention that I look forward to the Ministry of Education making subjects such as agricultural science compulsory.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Sefulo: What I have learned is that the children who are growing up in rural set-ups have the potential to contribute to this country given the right resources. Imagine a child who is taught how to farm from the time it is young? That child will not go hungry. However, right now, agricultural science is optional. For example, I did not learn agricultural science. So, I want to see the subject made a compulsory subject. We should also ensure that our children in school are taught how to plant drought-resistant crops. In view of the climatic changes, we need to prepare our children a century in advance.

Mr Chairperson, I also want to make mention that the other thing that should be done is decentralisation of bursaries. Right now, the children in our various constituencies have to apply for bursaries from Lusaka. Like I indicated, the services that exist in Lusaka, Kitwe and other urban areas are different from those that exist in rural areas. So, it is difficult for our children to compete at the national level. A child who got ten points in Mwandi is very intelligent, but because that child passed through difficulties, it is difficult for it to compete with a child who had access to a computer and was at a nearby school. So, I look forward to having bursaries and loans decentralised to our constituencies so that the children growing up in rural areas can also have access to bursaries and loans.

Mr Chairperson, last but not least, I commend the Government for this budget and for reinstating meal allowances in higher learning institutions. The Skills Development Levy is also doing wonders. I can attest that when I visited my constituency, I found children who went to school using the skills development funds building structures at a hospital in my constituency. That is very nice, and the Government should continue providing those funds.

With that said, Mr Chairperson, I support the budget on behalf of the people of Mwandi.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Chairperson, we say that education is the most fundamental of all human rights. Actually, it is a top priority. It is only education that will enable the son of a peasant farmer from Chama to meet the son of an hon. Minister or, indeed, the President of this country.

Mr Chairperson, I will concentrate on the type of education that we provide for ourselves. I will not debate education from the angle of what it is, but the quality of education that we have prescribed for ourselves.

Mr Chairperson, it is so ironic that we learn English, but not agriculture. Some citizens speak good English, yet they do not know how the food that they eat is produced. What type of education have we prescribed for ourselves? During our time, we would memorise all the parts of a grasshopper. Of what value was that to us? Go to the United States of America (USA), and you will find that a child there has no idea of geography, but I can describe the Prairies of Canada. Of what value has that been to us? We need to sit down and look at this. There are capable men and women within the ministry who can do that. Instead of our children learning about Zinjanthropus and Homo Habilis, can we start teaching them coding.

Interruptions

Mr Mung’andu: It is not “calling”, it is ‘coding’. Coding is computer language, which is able to make programmes.

Mr Chairperson, not only that, what areas in terms of resource endowment do we, as a nation, have? Agriculture and mining. It is so shameful that we have to bring foreign firms to do geomatic survey of our minerals, which are being discovered by villagers. Go to Kasenseli or Kanyelele in Mpika, and you will find that it is the villagers who discovered gold. Why can we not restructure our education system in such a way that it responds to the needs of the country? The pupils in Grade 8 or Grade 9 should be able to identify an emerald. It took our brothers from East Africa to exploit our emeralds on the Copperbelt. We are supposed to do these things on our own, and we can only do that through education. So, we should design an education curriculum that will identify advantages in terms of our resource endowment.

Mr Chairperson, we have the best attractions in tourism, but look at what we are getting. Tourists would rather land in the Kavango-Zambezi (KAZA) Conservation Area in Botswana and Zimbabwe and spend nights there, yet we have more attractions here. It goes back to education. Have we designed our education to respond to the needs of our people? The answer is no. If we are to ask professors what they have invented for this country, probably, the answer will be nothing. The question that we should ask ourselves is: Are they unable to invent? The answer is no. We have not invested much in research. We spend more money procuring things that have been made outside Zambia. It is only now that school desks are being manufactured locally. We used to import desks from China and they were like paper. When you just exposed them to rainfall, they would be destroyed.

Hon. Government Members: The PF (Patriotic Front)!

Mr Mung’andu: In some areas, we have continued doing that. Can we put money into the development of a curriculum that will answer to the needs of our children. Can we also allocate resources towards research, which should not only be confined to the tertiary education level, but also, probably, be done at junior level and high-level.

Mr Chairperson, when I was at Hillcrest Secondary School, we used to do what was called designing in metal work or problem solving. We could design a problem to do with robotics on how to pick something from a certain point. We were able to calculate angles and where they could stop. That is the type of education that our masters made sure that we did not get. Can we get back to the basics and design an education system that will ensure that the children in Kaputa know how to preserve fish and produce food for exportation and preserve it. We can do that. It is not that those who have done that are better than us. No. We are all made the same regardless of race, colour or tribe.

Mr Chairperson, as I support this Vote, I want to make a clarion call to the technocrats as well the hon. Minister to design an education system that will respond to the needs of this country.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Mr Chairperson, from the outset, I must mention that I support this budget with many reservations.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Chairperson, I have heard many submissions from my fellow hon. Members of Parliament who are appreciating the increment in this Vote. In the 2023 Budget, this Vote was equivalent to US$1.1 billion, which translates into about K23 billion. In Kwacha, we may say that it is an increment, but the amount has reduced by K100 million. This is probably the most important Vote that deserves maximum funding for so many reasons.

Mr Chairperson, if we do not produce a well-educated citizenry, this country will continue to not differentiate an original document from a forged one. If we do not properly fund this Vote, this country will not know what means to adjudicate on matters of public interest, and we will then have street adults.

Mr Chairperson, we must agree that this Vote has not been well funded. We will continue producing people who have degrees, but do not understand what they are doing. There are certain people who cannot write a report, and that is worrying. Education is the best weapon that one has to win any battles in life, as espoused by Mr Nelson Mandela, but some people are thanking the Government for increasing the allocation. What allocation? We are not serious.

Ms Sefulo: Question!

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Chairperson, we are not being serious. How will we know that we have sent people to become experts in forensics when we are not funding this Vote? Someone will bring a forged document here and suspend an hon. Member of Parliament and then we will act on it because of not being well educated in forensics.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Chairperson, as a matter of fact, for this Vote, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning should have thought twice when allocating these amounts of money. If the worst was to happen, such that the Kwacha/Dollar rate went to K27, this allocation would be K200 million less of the 2024 Budget, but what is the ministry doing with regards to education reforms? There are no reforms. For how long are we going to produce people who master the art of crafting documents from the streets of Matero, and the country makes decisions based on that because of not having invested in education?

Mr Chairperson, we, as a people, need to be serious. We cannot develop a country with insufficient funds in the education sector. There are 40,000 teachers in this sector with no accommodation. People go to Lumezi to teach, but because there is no accommodation, they come back to Lusaka, yet they are still on the payroll. We come all the way from our respective constituencies to talk about a lack of housing for the people, and classrooms. We have been delegated to build 1 x 3 classroom blocks but, then, the Ministry of Education has still been given less money.

Mr Chairperson, where are we going? We are going to produce many educated people with no knowledge at all. How is the country going to prosper? Just because someone can read a written script written for him, should we be here saying that we are grateful? I think, it is time to speak about facts and issues.

Ms Sefulo: Question!

Mr Munir Zulu: We cannot continue treating these matters as business-as-usual. We are not elected here to just appreciate, yet the Dollar is going up. It has gone beyond midnight and someone’s age, then, we say that there is an increment.

Mr Chairperson, it is a pity that we trivialise matters here, but citizens are now well informed. This is a very serious matter. I propose that the Government revises the figures so that we produce a well-educated crop of citizens who will, at least, have a minimum understanding of impartiality and be able to detect a forged document so that the country is not put in harm’s way.

Mr Chairperson, with those few remarks, I support the Vote.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kamboni (Kalomo Central): Mr Chairperson, one can be learned, but not educated. So, the question is: What is education? One hon. Member of Parliament said that his father was promoted to a very high rank, but he was not educated. My opinion is that his father was educated, but not learned.

Mr Chairperson, education can solve most of our problems. Singapore is now a developed nation because of education. The computers that we use are as a result of education. Unemployment, poverty and everything that we are complaining about can be solved through education, and that is why, today, I salute all men and women who are trying to improve the education system.

Mr Chairperson, I thank the ministry for the achievement on desks. When a person has a vision, all of us will do something to attain that vision. The issue of making desks came as a joke, but all of us here have produced desks in our constituencies, and I thank all those who have produced desks.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kamboni: Mr Chairperson, with regard to teachers, 30,000 were first recruited, then 4,500, and, later, 4,500 more, and this is excellent. That is a milestone, and I congratulate the ministry. I know that there are many problems in the ministry. However, when one plants a pineapple, one will harvest a pineapple. When one plants a watermelon, one will harvest a watermelon.

Mr Chairperson, let me talk about the curriculum. Is the curriculum that we have in the country what we need? Does it solve our problems? The education I get should make me live in society comfortably using the materials within the environment. I should be able to get what I want through the environment. That is what we call education. When my grandfather taught his children to hunt, they were able to hunt and feed the family, and were employed. When he taught them how to fish, they were able to catch fish and earn a living. However, what is happening today? The education system is there to escort people to unemployment.

Mr Chairperson, we need to look at the curriculum, which is outdated, and there is a need to change it. If we invest in education, the education system will truly solve our problems. However, the curriculum for Grades 1 to 12 was hurriedly done, and I am aware that eight years have clocked and that we are supposed to evaluate it. As we evaluate the curriculum, more investment should be made so that we come up with a curriculum that will suit our environment. The current curriculum was left by our colonial masters, but we are still using it although it has become irrelevant.

Mr Chairperson, when it comes to science, how come our friends in developed countries are able to utilise it? Through WhatsApp, one can know where one is going. Why is our science not helping us in any way? That is the question that we should ask ourselves. When it comes to medicine, we have done very well, but not in science. So, we have an opportunity, this time around, to do the right thing because we have a well-informed President and hon. Minister, and good Permanent Secretaries (PS). Can we come up with a curriculum that will solve our problems.

Mr Chala: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Kamboni: Mr Chairperson, I think, this is a sector where we should invest more money. As we allocate money to the sector, we need to allocate some of it towards revising the curriculum. When we have a new curriculum, then, our problems will be solved. The science taught in this country leaves much to be desired. So, we need reforms.

Mr Chairperson, the linkage between the Ministry of Technology and Science and the Ministry of Education is not very clear. I want to see a time when scientists will be rewarded at State House. I want to see a science fair where the best scientists in the country will be. As of now, I do not know who the best scientist in the country is. I do not know the type of science being taught now because science is in phases. There is science that helps us live comfortably, such as hygiene science, and there is also science in which it takes fifteen years to complete a project. If there was a linkage between the Ministry of Technology and Science and the Ministry of Education, by now, we would have known what our scientists have been trying to discover for a period of time, but that is silent. Even the students need to be encouraged. There can be an event for a week showcasing the scientists we have in the country so that we can encourage and reward them.

Mr Chairperson, what reforms do we need? The new curriculum should be developed by Zambians. We should take time to look at the current curriculum and come up with one that will be very helpful, because it is not fair for a child who spent seventeen years to look for employment for a long time. Everyone is looking for employment. So, who is going to employ whom? All this comes from the curriculum. The Ministry of Education is doing very well; it is procuring desks and putting up infrastructure, but it is now time that we looked at the curriculum.

Mr Chairperson, the rules of engagement between Government schools and mission schools are not clear, and there is a need for them to be very clear. Government schools and mission schools are using a Statutory Instrument (SI) at the moment, but in some cases, it is not complete. There is a need for all the schools to be uniform so that even the curriculum can be done in the same manner. Further, there is a gap in higher institutions of learning, and there is a need for a proper linkage. Otherwise, the ministry is doing very well. I commend it for that but, I think, it can do more. There are many problems at the ministry. So, more efforts are needed to sort them out. Let us also look at the human resource that is looking at the curriculum.

With those words, I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Mr Chairperson, first and foremost, let me say that I support the budget, but I just have a few concerns that the ministry should take care of.

Mr Chairperson, K256,759,251 has been allocated towards university infrastructure development but, for me, that is not enough because the people of the Eastern Province need a university. Some universities have not been considered, and it is like we are not moving. I do not know the progress that has been made with regard to King Lewanika University and Luapula University. I know that there are challenges, but three Budgets have been presented this far, and we should start moving forward. Some people will say that this one stole money, but it is time for us to move on. We cannot keep crying over things that were wrongly done.

Mr Chairperson, I think, the primary curriculum should be changed. I agree with my hon. Colleagues who debated earlier regarding the subjects our children are being taught. A good number of us learned the same subjects. In Germany, children are taught mining and engineering. There is no copper in Germany, but children are taught how to mine copper. Here, in Zambia, what children are being taught has nothing to do with such things.

Hon. Minister, you are a lecturer and you know what I am talking about. I should not even be lecturing you because you know. So, you have to act as Minister of Education.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

Talk through the Chair. Do not engage the hon. Minister directly.

Mr Menyani Zulu: Mr Chairperson, I am just reminding the hon. Minister because he knows what I am talking about. Wherever you go today, there is hunger because we have not taught the people about agriculture.

Today, hon. Minister, somebody will pass in four or five subjects, but –

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

Talk through the Chair.

Mr Menyani Zulu: Sorry, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Chairperson, today, one who passed four or five subjects, but failed in English cannot go to a tertiary school. That is a person who passed other subjects and can write English. What is wrong with us, Zambians? Did the colonial masters take everything in our heads so that we cannot think beyond what they are thinking?

Mr Chairperson, practical subjects such as engineering and metal work that were taught in secondary schools like Masala Secondary School in the past have now been replaced by business studies. The Northern Technical College (NORTEC) has been taken over by business studies, and even Lusaka Business and Technical College just offers business courses. There is no country anywhere in the world that has developed with only business studies. Which business are we going to do when the part of production is not working? Companies have gone down because – In this country, we cannot even produce a qualified plumber, and it is difficult to find one.

Mr Chairperson, my plea to the hon. Minister is that we get back to basics like in the past. We would have moved to another stage, but I do not know who told us that a white-collar job pays better. Twenty years ago, I used to work as a superintendent at a workshop and was the highest paid black person. In 2002, I was getting K9,000. I did not have a white-collar job and I would wear a work suit. So, no one should tell me that a white-collar job gives you more money. These are the things that we should start telling people.

Mr Chairperson, you will agree with me that there is hunger in this country because no one has taught us how to grow maize and develop. People are causing deforestation because they have not been taught about the importance of trees. So, I urge the hon. Minister to redevelop the curriculum. We should start teaching children about agriculture in primary school because it is the biggest industry. A few people, like my cousins, may not have fields, but a good number of people who have fields are developing them wrongly. Let us get back to the basics. Agricultural science should be compulsory, and that should not be negotiable. This is not about being on the right or left. That component must be included.

Mr Chairperson, I commend the hon. Minister for the Early Childhood Education Policy because that is very important. I also thank him for the timely disbursement of money to primary and secondary schools. However, my concern is that immediately the money goes to the schools, circulars and memoranda are sent to the schools, including those in rural areas, for them to start supporting certain programmes. So, the hon. Minister needs to look at this issue seriously because the money sent to the schools is not 100 per cent used in those schools. The ministry needs to start funding the Office of the Provincial Education Officer (PEO) and the Office of the District Education Board Secretary (DEBS) sufficiently. If that is done, together with what is being done in primary and secondary schools, the ministry will score 100 per cent. For now, I will give it 75 per cent because it is not funding the mentioned offices. My plea to the hon. Minister is that he looks at this issue because this is killing our schools. The good initiative that has been brought in will be disturbed because people are following the money meant for schools.

Mr Chairperson, let me give chance to other hon. Members to debate.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga) Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity, on behalf of the people of Mwinilunga, to contribute to the debate on this very important sector of our country.

Mr Chairperson, I want to say that the Executive, through the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, is making this country proud in the area of education. The New Dawn Government is meeting the continental standard of allocating resources to education at the level of 20 per cent of the Budget. I have been following our Budgets since 2016. During the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, we were somewhere below 14 per cent. From 2021, we have been improving and are somewhere around 17 per cent or 18 per cent. So, I want to tell the Executive and the New Dawn Government that it has done well.

Mr Chairperson, why is everybody quiet?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Samakayi: Mr Chairperson, we did not see any schools being built in Mwinilunga and there were no teachers in schools there. We describe the period 2011 to 2021 as wasted years.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Samakayi: I know that in future, there is going to be a shortage of manpower in this country arising from the ineptitude of the PF between 2011 and 2021.

Mr Kapyanga: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Mandandi: Hammer, hammer!

Mr Samakayi: Mr Chairperson, we have seen teachers being employed and we are also building schools. This entails that the quality of education for our children, compared with 2011 to 2021, is going to improve. However, I just have one point to make on the employed teachers. We were given 620 teachers in Mwinilunga, but we are disappointed because the Permanent Secretary (PS) transferred six teachers from Mwinilunga to other provinces without replacements. We want our teachers back.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Samakayi: We want the six teachers transferred back. If he will not transfer them back, he should give us different ones, but they must be six so that we maintain the 620 teachers. The PS is being unfair to the people of Mwinilunga. The President has done very well, but the PS seems to be doing the opposite; undoing what the President is doing. The people are very grateful, but we want the teachers back in Mwinilunga.

Mr Chairperson, I also want to request that student loans be allocated to the districts just like when the Government was employing teachers and allocations were made to each district. On behalf of the people of Mwinilunga, I recommend that when the ministry is giving loans to students, an equal number should be allocated to each district. For instance, the number of student loans allocated to Mwinilunga, Kabompo or Mwense must be equal so that equality in education is attained. We want people in every corner of this country to be educated. That is what the New Dawn Government wants. It has demonstrated that …

Mr Chibombwe: Question!

Mr Samakayi: … in all the sectors, including in the distribution of fertiliser and recruitment of teachers.

Mr Kapyanga: Question!

Mr Mandandi: Hammer, hammer!

Mr Samakayi: Mr Chairperson, when the economy improves, the North-Western Province will require a university. This has been on the cards for a long time, from the United National Independence Party (UNIP) days. We were told that an agricultural university was going to be set up in the North-Western Province but, to date, we are still waiting. We understand that this Government has challenges in trying to correct the economy that was wrecked by the reckless PF.

Support me also, hon. Members.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Hammer, hammer!

Laughter

Mr Samakayi: Mr Chairperson, I support the use of these resources to improve laboratories in secondary schools. I think, I will debate that point when we will be debating the Vote for the Ministry of Technology and Science. I am geared to debate again.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Katuta: Mr Chairperson, to begin with, we all speak this foreign language because we went to school and were taught by good teachers in the days of Dr Kenneth Kaunda. It is a pity that others were not taught during that period. Some of us went to school when our parents were headteachers who, if you asked for anything, would ask you to write a letter instead of verbally communicating so that they marked your work. Today, look at the English our children, who are graduates, write even on Facebook. You would laugh because the quality of education has been diluted.

Mr Chairperson, this is a great nation with people with brains, but we have a big challenge. I stood here two weeks ago and lobbied for the introduction of sign language and braille writing as optional subjects, which other countries have even recognised as official languages. However, in this country, we find that to not be necessary, and my colleagues did not support the Motion because it was moved by someone they do not like. This is detrimental to our development because before every nation develops – Let me talk about developed countries like Tanzania, India and Russia, where they do not use English. The people in those countries use their languages, and that is the reason they are intelligent and able to invent certain things. In this country, we do not do that and we are allergic to development. In China or Tanzania, they use their languages. In any country where they use their language, they can do things without being controlled by certain circles. I say so because as the hon. Member for Chama South alluded to, we have been enslaved and cannot think outside the box.

Mr Chairperson, in this budget, there is the aspect of the curriculum and materials development. From the time I came back from the Diaspora, I have heard of the development of our curriculum, which is not working out for us, but we see people going for workshops. That is taxpayers’ money. What are we going to leave for our children? The curriculum should be designed from the creche, and that is why I was talking about sign language and braille writing. Our neighbours have recognised these as official languages, but we are not considering making them compulsory. We are not moving forward. There is new technology and science related to sign language and braille writing, but we cannot even include that in our curriculum. Our children are still learning about Jelita and Mulenga, which is outdated. Some children are being taught in their native languages up to Grade 4. Well and good, because other countries have done that.

Mr Chairperson, what is expected is that we develop our own curriculum. There is no way a child in Chienge should be forced to learn something that does not relate to its environment. If you have been to India and China, as Dr Mwanza and I have, you will agree with me that teachers teach children what relates to their environment. We are forcing children to become graduates in engineering, but what about music? In other countries, such as South Africa, there is a university just for arts but, look at the Evelyn Hone College of Applied Arts and Commerce. It is a sad story. These are the areas to develop. Musicians can make money and contribute towards the revenue of the Treasury, but what are we doing about our curriculum?

Mr Chairperson, we still want to leave everything to the politicians, who are just there to make policies. The professors and intellectuals need to help us to develop a curriculum that will be tailored to the Zambian environment. No wonder, the youths cannot form consortiums and we have to wait for investors to come from outside. We have sugilite, yet we are still waiting for an investor from outside. We have made farming look like it is for midala or those who have retired. We have forests in this country, and we should include that aspect in our curriculum so that our children can become farmers or bee-keepers. We have plenty of trees, but we are waiting for an investor to come and do everything for us.

Mr Chairperson, when one wants to construct a house in this country, one has to call someone from Zimbabwe because we lack skills, which we should start acquiring from creche. These are things we talk about in terms of developing our curriculum. We should not just send pupils who fail Grade 7 or Grade 9 to skills training centres. In the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) or South Africa, a child who is in Grade 3 or Standard 2 is able to say that it will be a doctor, engineer or builder but, in this country, we think that building is done by people who are not educated when it is supposed to be a money spinner because people build houses. Who is going to employ those people? There is no Government that can give jobs to everyone. It is about time we included sciences, skills and agriculture in the curriculum as early as creche level; ni nursery muno mu Zambia twi ita. Then, we are going to talk about quality education. At the moment, our education –

Mr Chairperson, this money in the budget is a sheer waste of time. K17 billion is going towards salaries, and that is not helping us. There is no decentralisation, and the recruitment of teachers is done centrally. That has to be decentralised to the district level …

Mr Samakayi: Question!

Rev. Katuta: … so that we can get the kind of teachers whom we want.

Mr Chairperson, with those few words, I would like to see a revised curriculum in this country.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Member’s time expired.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Members, we need to make progress. We have a lot of business to transact.

May the hon. Minister wind up debate.

Mr Syakalima: Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank the colleagues who contributed to Vote 80, that is, the hon. Member for Mwandi, Hon. Mung’andu, Hon. Munir Zulu, Hon. Kamboni, Hon. Menyani Zulu, the Member for Nyimba, Hon. Samakayi, the Member for Mwinilunga and, last but not the least, Hon. Rev. Katuta.

Mr Chairperson, I think, all the hon. Members who debated talked about the curriculum. To allay their fears, when we came into office, we started reviewing the curriculum, and it was also evaluated from early childhood up to college level in order for teachers to know what will be in the curriculum. We have also developed a new curriculum framework, which will be validated from 11^th to 13^th December, 2023. So, hon. Members of Parliament who are interested can go and be part of that. Further, we have developed a new subject syllabus, which will be validated from 17^th December, 2023, to February 2024.

Mr Chairperson, reforming a curriculum takes quite more time than just writing a syllabus of a subject. The current curriculum was supposed to be reviewed seven years ago, but that was not done because people were playing jokes with school. So, we are very serious, and the new curriculum will start being rolled out. Next year, a few things will start working out.

Mr Chairperson, in terms of making agricultural science a compulsory subject, I agree with the hon. Members. The President already said that we must add agricultural science in Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics (STEM) schools. However, change must start with us parents. Some parents tell their children to be doctors or engineers. So, reform must start with us, Zambians. When our children wear suits, we should tell them that they are wearing those suits because someone planted cotton. If they think that the person who planted the cotton got dirty, why are they looking clean? Somebody had to do that. So, we must change our mindset.

Mr Chairperson, I always tell the President that the problem with our generation is that it cannot be reconfigured. That is why we want to change the curriculum from early childhood so that those – When the President comes to the House in March, he espouses our ethics, standards and morals. He talks to people who watch television, not children. This generation is very difficult to change. So, we are going to start teaching from the early childhood level how to be entrepreneurs, how to be respectful and to not take something that is not theirs. That will be taught at the early childhood level. Children must fear to take something that is not theirs. My colleagues may recall that in the past, if you were walking on a street and saw a K1, you would look around to see who had dropped it or ask the person in front of you if he/she had dropped it. That person would be honest and say if it was him/her or not. If that person said the money was not his/hers, you would continue looking around to see who might have dropped it. That K1 would trouble you. Upon reaching home, you would give it to your parents and tell them that you did not know who dropped it. Nowadays, when a child picks up a K1, it will start looking for fitumbuwa.

Mr Chairperson, we must inculcate a sense of honesty in our children, and our school system is going to do that from early childhood. When a child is three years old, it should be told that corruption is bad. Otherwise, this generation is a damaged one. Further, we shall make sure that our children learn how to respect public property. It does not matter whether it is lithium or mukula. We planted mukula trees ten years ago. So, who was cutting those trees. We will not allow that. Therefore, we shall arrest anyone who damages public property so that that person goes and reforms. For the sake of our grandchildren and children, we shall make sure that there is an aspect of showing respect in public in the curriculum. That is what we are going to do. In the next forty years, how do we want our education system to be? What type of human beings do we want to create out of our school system? That is what we want to address.

Interruptions

Mr Syakalima: Yes, we will also include the aspect of morals because the President comes here to talk about morality. Our morals were badly damaged by the Patriotic Front (PF).

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Mr Chairperson, that is why I call their decade a wasted and lost decade. We had a lost and wasted decade under the PF. Just check where we are coming from.

Mr Chairperson, Hon. Mung’andu’s contribution was very good. I was in Rwanda five years ago, and they were also concerned about naming parts of grasshoppers, as if all of us are going to be entomologists. So, those are things that we want to realign in our curriculum. What is relevant for us? In fact, there are many pathways in STEM schools, to answer –

Rev. Katuta almost left the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Syakalima: Sit, I want to answer you.

Laughter

Rev. Katuta resumed her seat.

Mr Syakalima: Mr Chairperson, before the hon. Member leaves, I want to say that there are pathways in STEM schools that will include agriculture. There are pathways in finance, business and entrepreneurship, physical education and sports and performing arts and creative arts, an issue the hon. Member talked about. So, all those things are in the curriculum that we are reviewing, and there are pathways in social science as well. I think, there are about eight pathways.

Mr Chairperson, let me respond to the issue that the hon. Member for Mwandi raised. Liquid Technology is working in collaboration with the Ministry of Technology and Science, and I have a linkage with my brother, the hon. Minister of Technology and Science. We are working together. Many schools will be linked to Starlink, which is wireless connection. We want all schools to have wireless connection even if there will be no Internet, and Starlink is trying to do that. Just wait, that will be done. So, in terms of a linkage between the Ministry of Technology and Science – In fact, we have many linkages even with the Ministry of Health. There are so many institutions that the Ministry of Education is linked to. The ministry already has a reform agenda for the higher education sub-sector aimed at making it more responsive to the needs of our country.

Mr Chairperson, when my colleagues hear that there is the Junior Engineers, Technicians and Scientists (JETS) fair at the National Science Centre, they should come and see the innovations of our children, and they will realise that the children are intelligent and innovative. When my brother went to Israel with the President, because he went to a JETS fair, the President asked him to explain what he saw in Israel during a Cabinet meeting, and he said that he first saw what he saw in Israel here. Our children are very innovative and able to make drones, but the law does not allow drones to fly up to 500 m. Other children made fertiliser using sunflower. So, there are innovations in this country. The potential is there, and we shall utilise it.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Vote 80 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 66 – (Ministry of Technology and Science – K1,029,918,560)

The Minister of Technology and Science (Mr Mutati): Mr Chairperson, I am grateful for the opportunity to present the policy statement that will guide the operations of the Ministry of Technology and Science in 2024.

Mr Chairperson, the ministry experienced some challenges and opportunities in the execution of its mandate in 2023, and that has influenced the budget outlook for the year 2024. The focus for 2024 is, therefore, built on the previous achievements to contribute towards the Budget theme as an enabler of unlocking the economic potential. The ministry will be at the centre of embracing technology for enhanced productivity. Further, it will be at the centre of driving the research and development (R & D) agenda to heighten innovation and competitiveness. It will also be at the centre of encouraging skills development to empower all citizens to fully participate in economic development.

Mr Chairperson, the ministry provides oversight on science, research, development, technology and innovation, vocational and entrepreneurship training, and information and communication development, as stipulated in Government Gazette Notices Nos. 90 and 1123 of 2021.

Highlights for 2023

Mr Chairperson, the performance of the ministry in 2023 has been attributed to the strong partnership and collaboration with the private sector, co-operating partners and the citizens.

Information and Communication Technology Development

Mr Chairperson, in the area of Information and Communication (ICT), the ministry has earmarked 300 towers for construction, which are at various stages.

Mr Chairperson, the ministry completed constructing 119 mobile communication towers with support from the private sector, and they are now operational. In addition, the ministry, in collaboration with the private sector, has commenced the construction of twenty towers and has received a donation of twenty-five towers.

Mr Chairperson, under universal access, the ministry has commenced the construction of thirty-one mobile communication towers. Further, 108 mobile communication towers are at the procurement stage in readiness for award of contracts. Additionally, the ministry, through the Zambia Telecommunications Company (ZAMTEL), has commenced the construction of mobile towers. That will bring the total number of towers to 322.

Mr Chairperson, to enhance an enabling environment for ICT growth, the ministry completed and launched the Information and Communication Technologies Policy and the Digital Transformation Strategy. The policy and the strategy have ambitious targets that will drive support towards access and usage, human development and ICT skills, ICT research, innovation and entrepreneurship, infrastructure development, competitiveness and fair environment, and information security and data privacy.

Mr Chairperson, to improve the provision of ICT services, the ministry successfully auctioned spectrum in the 700 MHz and 800 MHz frequency bands. That resulted in two mobile network providers launching high-speed Internet at 5G.

Mr Chairperson, to stimulate the growth of courier services, the ministry issued a statutory instrument, which saw international postal and courier licences reduced by 33 per cent. Further, the ministry reduced by 50 per cent local courier services from K10,000 to K5,000. This reduction of fees has increased the participation of small and medium enterprises (SMEs) in the sector to over 70 per cent, consequently resulting in an increase in the generation of Government revenue.

Mr Chairperson, I am happy to report to this august House that the ministry increased access to Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training (TEVET) for learners, with total enrolments reaching 78,915, compared with 68,788 in 2022, representing a 14.2 per cent increment. To support equity, the ministry supported 5,861 students in 2023. To demonstrate the Government’s commitment to entrepreneurship training, the ministry finalised the development of the Entrepreneurship Development Strategy and the Open Distance and Flexible Learning Strategy to align them with the aspirations of the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP) and other related policies.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry continued to implement the National Youth Skills Empowerment Programme supported by the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). So far, the number of beneficiaries stands at 8,583, compared with 6,800 in 2022. As a ministry, we are making efforts to engage the hon. Members of Parliament to sensitise their constituents for the youth to utilise this empowerment initiative. The ministry continued reviewing the Technical Education Vocation and Entrepreneurship Training Act No. 13 of 1998. I am happy to report to this august House that the review for this Act has reached an advanced stage.

TEVET Infrastructure and Equipment

Mr Chairperson, I am happy to report that the construction of the Sesheke, Lundazi and Mporokoso trades training institutes was completed. Sesheke Trades Training Institute has since been commissioned by the President of the Republic of Zambia. The ministry also continued to construct additional hostel blocks at Chipata and Ukwimi trades training institutes. The hostels at Ukwimi were completed while, at Chipata, they stood at 88 per cent. The project will result in the creation of 960 bed spaces. In addition, the ministry, with the support of the private sector, signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) for the construction of a modern skills training college in Chapula area in Lufwanyama District at a cost of US$2.5 million.

Science, Research and Development

Mr Chairperson, the ministry sponsored 211 scientists pursuing master’s programmes and eleven Doctor of Philosophy (PhD) candidates under the Science and Technology Post Graduate Scholarship. The ministry also supported innovators and technology developers through the Technology Business Development Fund and the Science and Technology Youth Innovation Fund. Further, His Excellency the President, in collaboration with the private sector, supported fifty innovators through the HH (Hakainde Hichilema) Innovation Fund. Further, an agreement between the Government of the Republic of Zambia and Huawei Technologies Company Limited to establish an HH Innovation Hub has been signed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: In the same period, the ministry also managed to copyright two products and trademark one product, and is in the process of patenting three products.

Mr Chairperson, the ministry commenced the review of the Science, Technology and Innovation Policy as well as the development of the Technology and Innovation Strategy in order to streamline the co-ordination of science, research and development, and technology and innovation, and incorporating emerging technologies.

Mr Chairperson, the establishment of the ground receiving station has reached an advanced stage and will be completed by the end of this year.

2024 Estimates

Mr Chairperson, the ministry has been allocated K1 billion, compared with K768 million, representing a 33 per cent increase. Based on the budget that we have been allocated, the strategy of the ministry will be to:

develop, commercialise and adopt transformational technologies;
fully operationalise the ground receiving station;

modernise the National Institute for Scientific and Industrial Research (NISIR);

enhance digital transformation, including the construction of 169 towers;

promote applied research and development (R & D);

enhance access to quality and equitable skills development; and

enhance co-ordination through institutional and legal reorganisation.

Mr Chairperson, as I conclude my address to this august House, I appeal to all the stakeholders to be part of budget execution by contributing to the achievement of the deliverables set out in this document. The onus is on all of us to make a change in this sector. As the Government, we will provide the necessary guidance and initiative.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Kanengo (Kabushi): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to debate. I have very few words to say on this budget.

Mr Chairperson, I will address the hon. Minister, and I want to talk about mobile telephone network providers. Let me talk about the minutes that they have introduced. I fail to understand how they are exploiting the people of Zambia. How possible is it that 1,000 minutes can be consumed in 600 minutes? Scientifically, it cannot be proven. I am a victim of such things, 1,000 minutes consumed in 600 minutes. It is not possible.

Mr Chairperson, it is very important that the hon. Minister works closely with these companies and their marketing teams. Mobile phone service providers are selling services that we do not fully understand by cheating us. The hon. Minister has done very well in the past when it came to erecting communication towers across the country, and I commend him for that. However, since his ministry deals with technology and science, we should not import these towers; they have to be manufactured locally in Zambia. When you look at the technology that is involved in making those towers, you will see that it is very simple. If we are going to construct twenty, thirty or 100 towers across the country, we want to see those towers constructed locally.

Mr Chairperson, under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), we are sponsoring people to different skills institutions where they are learning plumbing, metal fabrication and many other skills. What is the purpose of those skills? It is to address such challenges. The hon. Minister talked about the economy. By not importing goods into the country, we are going to save our economy. The more we import things from outside the country, the more we put the Kwacha under pressure.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister talked about the 5G network and the advancement of technology in the country. I appreciate that, and we are going in the right direction. However, this technology must be brought with sanity. I come from Kabushi Constituency, where optic fibre poles have been erected everywhere and the town looks like it has cobwebs. Can we find the best way of running the cables. Much as we are enjoying the technology, our town must look neat and tidy.

Mr Chairperson, I am very ashamed as I stand here. To date, we are still importing one-piston engines here, in Zambia, yet there are many engineers. We have been producing engineers from nineteen seventy chakuti, but we are still importing one-piston engines. We must work very hard to ensure that our engineers are empowered. There are many engineers in Kabushi, and we had a plan to fire a two-piston engine by this December, but we were not funded. We went to the Ministry of Education to solicit funds, but we were not helped. We cannot continue importing shock absorbers or needles.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanengo: Mr Chairperson, I took time to go to Kamwala Market, and almost everything that I found there was imported. All the underwear and needles sold at Kamwala Market …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanengo: … are imported. We must come out of the ditch that we are in. We must think outside the box and start manufacturing in Zambia.

Interruptions

Mr Fube: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Fube: Mr Chairperson, I listened to the policy statement very well, but I am shocked and perturbed that the hon. Member on the Floor is talking about underwear, which were not mentioned anywhere in the policy statement. Is he in order to talk about Kamwala underwear in Parliament, yet we are discussing the Vote for the Ministry of Technology and Science?

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member for Kabushi, ensure that you stick to the policy statement that the hon. Minister has presented rather than referring to the underwear sold in Kamwala, of which you cannot substantiate whether it was made in Zambia or not.

You may continue.

Mr Kanengo: Mr Chairperson, I wish to support this budget, although the increment is very small. However, we, the people of Kabushi, have a very big bone to chew with this ministry.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: May the hon. Member continue.

Mr Kanengo: Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Laughter

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Mr Chairperson, thank you –

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

_______

HOUSE RESUMED

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

_______

The House adjourned at 1841 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 8^th December, 2023.

____________

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