Thursday, 13^th June, 2024

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM SPEAKER

PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM ST. AUGUSTINE PARISH SCHOOL IN KALINGALINGA

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence in the Public Gallery of pupils and teachers from St. Augustine Parish School in Kalingalinga, Lusaka District.

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

Thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

MENTAL HEALTH AWARENESS WORKSHOP

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that Eleveight Wellness Solutions has been granted permission to conduct a workshop on mental health for hon. Members of Parliament and staff. The workshop is aimed at promoting mental health awareness.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: The exercise will be conducted on Monday, 17th June, 2024, from 1400 hours to 1600 hours in the Amphitheatre at Parliament Main Buildings.

Interested hon. Members are encouraged to attend this important workshop.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: It will be on a voluntary basis. We might be laughing, but it is an important aspect that we all need to look at because we all go through a number of issues, which can be very stressful. So, please, attend that workshop.

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URGENT MATTER WITHOUT NOTICE

MR B. MPUNDU, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR NKANA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF DEFENCE, MR LUFUMA, ON MR J. E. BANDA’S HEALTH CONDITION

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, my urgent matter without notice is directed at the hon. Minister of Defence.

Madam Speaker, the convention on universal health coverage dictates, among many other things, the rights of patients to access proper medical care from facilities of their choice. Our colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Petauke Central, has been in hospital with a complicated health condition for the past seventeen days.

Madam Speaker, humanity dictates that when one is going through trouble, we show empathy. I know that some atheists from this side are trying to trivialise the matter I am raising. You may need to protect me.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Proceed hon. Member, although we are not supposed to debate ourselves. That is where the issue is.

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker –

Madam Speaker: If it is a matter that is worrying, I think, it can be dealt with administratively.

Mr B. Mpundu: No, Madam Speaker. This is not administrative.

Madam Speaker: Proceed, you have two minutes.

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, our colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Petauke Central, has struggled with his health condition for the past seventeen days.

Mr Munsanje: Are you his doctor?

Mr B. Mpundu: Bushe iwe ninshi wakwatila problem. Uli mukulu sana iwe! (pointed at Mr Munsanje)

Madam Speaker: Order!

Mr Kapyanga: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr B. Mpundu: Uli mukulu sana iwe!

Mr Kafwaya rose.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Lunte, why are you standing up?

Mr B. Mpundu: Uli mukulu sana iwe!

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, uyu mukulu sana!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, we are all dignified men and women. As we debate and raise issues, let us do that in a dignified manner befitting of this honourable House.

Mr B. Mpundu pointed at Mr Munsanje.

Madam Speaker: I am giving guidance and you are pointing. That reduces the dignity and the decorum of the House. You may proceed but, please, be factual as you raise your matter.

Mr B. Mpundu: I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I was stressing the point that the convention on universal health coverage dictates that a patient has the right to access medical care from a facility of their choice. Our colleague has struggled with an ailment for the past seventeen days and the family is demanding that he be taken to access health care at a facility they deem would handle that health need.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Defence in order to stop this particular individual, who is a friend of ours, from enjoying his right of accessing proper health care? I note that the facility that he has been stationed at has failed to manage that particular condition because today is the seventeenth day since he was hospitalised there.

 I seek your indulgence, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munsanje interrupted.

Mr B. Mpundu: Imwe yama, mulefwaika ukukula imwe!

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, you are making serious allegations in view of the matter that you raised. I do not know if there is any documentation to support what you are saying. Otherwise, it is very difficult for me to comment because the hon. Member is at Maina Soko Military Hospital. I intend to go and visit him tomorrow. Let me do my assessment, I will talk to the doctors, and find out what exactly is happening. So, we leave it at that. We leave everything in the hands of the professionals.

Mr B. Mpundu: I will accompany you.

Madam Speaker: No, I will go alone.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: When you say accompaniment, it is like having tea and bread. I will just have tea. Thank you very much.

Hon. Member, thank you for raising that issue. Let us make progress because that is the only matter. Once we make the assessment, of course, we will be able to advise administratively.

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

CHOLERA OUTBREAK AFFECTING FIVE DISTRICTS IN THE EASTERN PROVINCE

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to update this august House and the public on the ongoing cholera outbreak affecting five districts namely; Chipata, Mambwe, Chipangali, Chadiza and Lumezi in the Eastern Province. The House may recall that on 11^th June, 2024, during the urgent matter without notice segment, you directed the Minister of Health to issue a ministerial statement on what the Government is doing to address the cholera situation in Chipata and what measures are being taken to ensure that it does not spread to other parts of the country.

Madam Speaker, your directive followed the urgent matter without notice raised by Mr Chitotela, hon. Member of Parliament for Pambashe Parliamentary Constituency, who wanted to be guided on what the Government, through the Ministry of Health, is doing to prevent cholera from spreading.

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that after a period of thirty-two days with zero cases, the Eastern Province reported eighty-five suspected cholera cases since 29^th May, 2024. Of these, thirty-five have been confirmed by our laboratory at Chipata Central Hospital. The first cases were identified in Chipata on 29^th May, 2024. Since then, the outbreak has spread and affected five districts in the Eastern Province.

Madam Speaker, the number of cases in the affected districts are; sixty-two cases in Chipata, four cases in Lumezi, two cases in Chadiza, six cases in Mambwe and eleven cases in Chipangali. The cases in Chipata, Lumezi and Mambwe are linked to meals eaten and the consumption of unsafe water at the Saturday market in Chipata. The cases in Chipangali are linked to the case in Mambwe. Of the two cases in Chadiza, one is linked to Lusaka, while the other one is linked to Mozambique. Within the last twenty-four hours, four new cases were reported in Chipangali District. Fortunately, our skilled workforce has saved every life so far in this new outbreak. By 1800 hours on 11^th June, 2024, there were four patients in admission in Chipangali while the other districts did not have any patients under admission. A total of eight-three of the eighty-five patients have been discharged.

Madam Speaker, the district, with the support of the provincial and national level technical teams, has launched a multi-sectoral response strategy to actively control the outbreak as quickly as possible. The response is focused mainly on case management, providing and promoting the use of clean and safe water, and ensuring good sanitation. The teams are also promoting good hygiene practices at both household and community levels. The Saturday market has been closed for thorough cleaning and inspection, as we continue to conduct active surveillance to identify affected individuals.

Madam Speaker, we are fortunate to have 2 million doses of oral cholera vaccine that were earlier donated by the International Co-ordinating Group (ICG) for reactive campaigns during previous outbreaks. Therefore, Chipata District having received approval for 345,000 doses, is set to initiate the vaccination campaign. We are expediting the training of district teams to ensure the swift deployment and administration of vaccines in the coming days. The team from the extended programme for immunisation is already in the district to ensure the necessary due diligence is completed. Additionally, targeted vaccination campaigns will be conducted in other districts experiencing confirmed outbreaks to curb the spread of cholera effectively.

Madam Speaker, allow me to remind this august House that the outbreak remains a significant threat to national health security, necessitating a continued and intensified multi-sectoral response. The outbreak has the potential to negate the socio-economic status of the individuals and communities affected, as disruptions to the education calendar and many businesses may occur. We continue to leverage on lessons learnt from the previous outbreaks. I am pleased to report that we have successfully controlled the 2023 cholera outbreak that began in Lusaka in October 2023. While our records indicate a generally well-managed situation, we observed sporadic cases in parts of Kitwe, Ndola, Kabwe and Lusaka.

Madam Speaker, although the situation is not catastrophic in the Eastern Province, we are all reminded of the 3Cs that help us to prevent and control cholera:

1. clean water: always drink clean and safe water, either boiled or chlorinated. Utilise the tanks provided by the Government in hotspots for water needs;
2. clean hands: frequently hand wash with soap and safe water, especially before, during, and after preparing food and eating. Teach and remind your children to follow the same hygiene practices; and
3. early clinical care: visit the nearest healthcare facility immediately upon experiencing symptoms of watery diarrhoea and vomiting. Early action is crucial for effective treatment.

Madam Speaker, appreciating the impact of the drought and climate change as factors contributing to this disease, we can only emphasise the need for joint efforts if we are to achieve the goal of a cholera-free Zambia. I wish to assure this august House that the Government under the leadership of His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, remains committed to ensuring that no one dies from cholera.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, my clarion call to all hon. Members of this august House is that they engage their communities and put on the priority list of development, WASH, which is Water Supply, Sanitation and Hygiene issues in the communities using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much. I hope that was clear.

Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement issued by the hon. Minister of Health.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Speaker, how I wish the hon. Minister was present in the House. However, according to my understanding, the statement paints a glumly and dangerous picture in Zambia, in terms of the cholera pandemic. The hon. Minister mentioned three issues that we are supposed to take care of. Firstly, we need to have clean drinking water, yet the water reticulation centres such as the water treatment plants are being load-shed for more than twenty-four hours, hence, people are not accessing water. Secondly, the hon. Minister mentioned that we need to keep our hands clean. How do we keep our hands clean without water?

Madam Speaker, does the hon. Minister have any plans of collaborating with the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation to encourage the sinking of industrial boreholes that can be an alternative to the traditional water supply? I have children who are in school. If the situation is not managed, our children will be affected and I do not want them to be affected the way they were affected in the first quarter of 2024.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, as I indicated, we are working with the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation and the Ministry of Education in a multi-sectoral fashion. To this effect, the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation has continued to sink boreholes or to set up water tanks where the need arises.

Madam Speaker, the issue now is that we have a double problem as a nation, in that, the drought has worsened the situation and may worsen it more. This is why it is important that we all work together and ensure that we promote hygiene practices and tell the public, the people, to not drink water without boiling or chlorinating it so that we have a situation in which the outbreak is controlled. The markets must also be kept clean. Issues of hygiene are personal. It is incumbent upon us, leaders, to talk to our communities and help them to appreciate and understand the importance of basic hygiene practices, such as washing our hands, which is very important. There is water to wash hands. So, let us not make it look like people are not able to find water to wash their hands. Yes, they may have to draw the water from some far points, but let us encourage hygiene practices in our markets, homes, and workplaces.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Lunte, did you take a bath today? Do you have water where you are staying?

Laughter

Madam Speaker: That was on a lighter note. You were surprised when the hon. Minister was saying we should wash our hands. So, I thought, maybe, there is not even a drop of water where you are staying. Did you bath?

Laughter

Madam Speaker: It was on a lighter note, hon. Member.

Hon. Members: Sana sambe!

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Let us make progress. Apologies if I have embarrassed you. Kaili you are now my kaze.

Laughter

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that one of the things that could have caused ­–

Interruptions

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, I am getting a lot of feedback, here.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Let us listen to the hon. Member of Parliament for Chilubi. He has the Floor.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that the cases in the Eastern Province have been caused by drought or climate change per se. We are in June and the situation is likely to get –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members on my right!

Please, let us listen to the hon. Member of Parliament for Chilubi.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, we are in June and the effects of climate change are likely to get worse as we get towards October. The disease is likely to spread to other places and provinces. Therefore, does the ministry have a response plan in place so that it can react to the effects, which will be caused by climate change or the drought?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, first of all, I indicated that regarding the incidents in the Eastern Province, the ministry is already on the ground and is addressing the issues. That is why, if you have noticed, the number of deaths has stopped rising. I also talked about the multi-sectoral approach.

Madam Speaker, the question that the hon. Member is asking has to do with the future considering that generally, the water problem is as a result of drought. I want to say that we there is a standing committee under the Office of Her Honour the Vice-President, and all of us have continued doing what we agreed to do in each sector. Firstly, the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation ensures that communities have adequate water. Where there is a problem of water, the ministry moves in. Further, we, as the Ministry of Health, have continued sensitising the community and ensuring that people follow the three Cs, which I explained in my statement, and ensuring that when there is a case of cholera, the patient does not die. The President said that nobody should die of cholera. So, we are making sure that nobody dies. Regarding the two cases we had, I mentioned that one was linked to Mozambique and the other to Lusaka.

Madam Speaker, I also talked about the strategy that we have been employing. We have not just started. Since October, we have not put down our tools. We have continued to do what we were doing as if there is cholera. Maybe, we are not loud enough, but we have groups on the ground. We will engage more community health workers, with the support of our partners, to ensure that we have more people on the ground carrying out door-to-door sensitisation, and educating the people on how to avoid cholera.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, it is said that prevention is better than cure. The hon. Minister indicated that there is a multi-sectoral approach to this matter. I would like to learn one thing because it appears like we are being reactive unlike being proactive. May the hon. Minister categorically state what the ministry has done to completely prevent the cholera outbreak at the Saturday market apart from closing this market.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister, please, ensure that your video is on, in accordance with our Standing Order No. 25 (5) and (6).

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I indicated that the market was closed and it has since been cleaned. We will continue ensuring that the market is in a condition that does not pose any danger to the public. However, in the meantime, it has not yet been opened. That is one point relating to the market.

Madam Speaker, I also indicated that there will be a vaccination exercise where an oral cholera vaccine that is meant for the people of Chipata will be administered. We received approval for 345,000 doses, and we are now set to initiate the vaccination campaign. We are expediting the training of district teams to ensure the swift administration of vaccines in the coming days. I also indicated that the team from the extended programme for immunisation is already in the district to ensure that necessary due diligence is done. That is what I can say for now.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kolala (Lufubu): Madam Speaker, my constituency is one of the constituencies that is prone to cholera. There is an island there called Chilwa Island, and whenever there is a pandemic, people are affected. In such areas, people do not even have where they can buy chlorine for them to chlorinate the water they use. Are there any programmes in the ministry that involve the distribution of chlorine to such areas where people do not have access to chemicals that would help them prevent cholera?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, yes, we do have such programmes from time to time. In fact, the hon. Member can come to the ministry because we still have quite a bit of leftover donations that were given to the ministry during the previous cholera outbreak. So, we distribute the chlorine when one approaches us. We can give some to the hon. Member of Parliament and the district officials so that they, who are on the ground, can ensure that the people have access to this needed commodity called chlorine.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa) Madam Speaker, thank you for this opportunity to ask a question. I wish our hon. Minister of Health a quick recovery. It would have been better if she was here, in the House. We would have been very comfortable to ask her questions directly rather than talking to her at arm’s-length.

Madam Speaker, unfortunately, Kasenengwa has not been spared from this pandemic. We have confirmed cases of cholera in Kasenengwa. The hon. Minister has assured us that the ministry is doing everything possible to make sure that no one dies from cholera, which is a very good thing. The problem is that we seem to be more reactive than proactive. The areas that are affected have been attended to, people have been treated, and chlorine and other materials have been distributed. Has the ministry put measures in constituencies or districts that have not been affected to prevent the disease, such as distributing chlorine and other medicines so that –

Mr Mwila stood at the back for some time.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Does the hon. Member for Mufulira have a seat? I have seen him standing there at the back for quite some time.

You may proceed, hon. Member for Kasenengwa.

Mr Twasa: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I want to find out from the hon. Minister of Health if the ministry is distributing chlorine and implementing other measures to prevent cholera, other than having people getting sick, and then ensuring that they do not die because being sick is a huge cost and inconvenience.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I will be with you next week. I am just taking an official rest, but I am well. Thank you for your care.

Madam Speaker, we do not distribute chlorine to communities. That is not our job. However, we encourage communities to buy chlorine for their households so that the water they drink is clean and safe. If they are not able to buy chlorine, we encourage them to boil water so that it is safe. We also encourage communities to maintain hygiene standards; wash hands, keep their surroundings clean, and the like. This is a way of life. It should not only be the duty of the Ministry of Health to educate the communities. This should be the duty of all of us. When we address meetings in our communities, we should explain to the public, what cholera is, how it is contracted, and how we can prevent it. That is why we come to Parliament; to issue ministerial statements, educate and equip hon. Members with information for them to help us share the information with their communities. Yes, when there is an outbreak, we take a further step and help communities by distributing chlorine. However, it is not our duty to distribute chlorine to communities.

Madam Speaker, the other point I want to make is that it is also not correct to say that we are reactive. We are not reactive. Zambia and in particular, the Ministry of Health, has been commended by other countries for the way it always reacts when it has an epidemic. We manage to control epidemics in a short time, meaning that we have structures, systems and protocols that we develop in advance, which we apply at any given time even now, community health workers are undertaking what we call vaccination days where they educating the masses. However, as you know, cholera is not just a health issue. There are other sectors that play a role.

Madam Speaker, there is a drought and the water supply has decreased. People have to walk long distances to look for water. The temptation to drink water from shallow wells will start. So, the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation has a budget for improving water supply throughout the country, of course, according to the resources allocated to them and is continuously drilling boreholes. I think, hon. Members of Parliament must help the communities. We all now have the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). We, as hon. Members of Parliament, working with the local authorities, must use part of that money to ensure that communities that do not have water supply, are given water.

Madam Speaker, there is no reason today, a big village in any constituency, would not have even one borehole. Yes, in the past that would happen because we had to wait for the councils, the provincial administration, and the national office to allocate resources but, now, we have the resources. As hon. Members of Parliament, we can use part of the CDF and ensure that communities no longer drink water from shallow wells. We have the problem of unsafe drinking water because some people go and settle in unplanned settlements. That is why the Government has said that there should be no more unplanned settlements. It is again, part of our role, as elected officials to discourage people from building structures anyhow; the way it has always been. We have to ensure that people follow the rules so that they have water.

Madam Speaker, as I indicated earlier, there is a committee that meets even when there is no cholera. We have already agreed with various sectors on the actions to be taken. We even had to realign our budgets so that where there is no water, the water utility company does something about that. I know for a fact that there are many things happening, except, of course, we need to help each other. For example, we cannot expect one ministry to drill boreholes in one day in 150 constituencies. What does that mean? It means that I, as the Member for Chongwe, must also have a programme to sink boreholes and that programme must also be there at the provincial and national levels. By the end of our five-year term, there should be no Zambian sharing drinking water with animals or just poor-quality water.

Madam Speaker, it is not correct to say that we are doing nothing. We are doing everything possible. We, as a country, have good support from our co-operating partners who are also conducting a number of programmes to improve water supply and sensitise people. Further, on the issue of cleanliness, hon. Members who have spouses at home should help one another to so we can a country with clean citizens. Many people from different countries around the world, with different cultures, some of whom are not very clean-oriented have come to live here in Zambia. As Zambians, let us be what we used to be and also teach the people who come to live among us to be clean. There is so much dirt around, and people are comfortable. We, as a citizenry always kept the markets clean, but the markets are dirty now. It was not like that previously. Let us get back to the basics of what we have always been, as a country. It must start with us, the leaders; hon. Members and Councillors.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Before we proceed, I would like to take this opportunity to announce the presence of the hon. Member for Malole in the House who has been away for a long time.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Welcome back, hon. Member!

Hon. Member for Mwandi, you may proceed.

Ms Sefulo (Mwandi): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, we are excited to have the hon. Member for Malole back in the House and I welcome him.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, I have noted with concern something regarding the Keep Zambia Clean, Green and Health Campaign, which is spearheaded by the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development. I know that when it comes to the cholera outbreak, the response is multi-sectoral and should not be left to the Keep Zambia Clean, Green and Health Campaign. However, the campaign usually just happens in markets, and has not been taken to the household level where each household can take responsibility for cleaning its surroundings. As a result, we will be having instances of recurring cholera outbreaks. I want to find out if the Ministry of Health is working with the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development to ensure that the information with regard to keeping our areas clean does down to the individual level.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, maybe, you can give us, as hon. Members, one or two days off each, so we can go to our constituencies and implement the Keep Zambia Clean, Green and Health Programme, which is a multi-sectoral programme. Such programmes would help to change the mindsets of our people because through them we are encouraged to plant trees, dispose of waste properly and prepare places for waste management. Further, people are also encouraged to access clean drinking water and to clean their houses once every Friday like we used to see in the days of a council-led programme of cleaning public places. The response to the problem has to be a multi-sectoral approach. It should not be an initiative of the council only; it should be for everybody. Even here at Parliament we must also maintain high standards of cleanliness in the public toilets. As a nation, we have a lot of work to do and, as leaders, it should start with us so that it is easier for our people to follow.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister, as Parliament, we have a cleaning day every month. If you go into our toilets, you will be amazed at how they look; very clean.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: So, let us emulate that in our constituencies.

Hon. Member for Bweengwa, you may proceed.

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Madam Speaker, thank you very much. Let me also welcome back my brother, the hon. Member for Malole, to this House.

Madam Speaker, what measures has the ministry put in place to ensure that the cholera outbreak is confined to the places or districts that have already been affected and does not spread to areas beyond, for example, Lundazi and Nyimba, so that we keep the Zambian people safe?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I indicated that the provincial and district health centres have started preparing the oral cholera vaccines (OCV) for the vaccination exercises, as a preventive measure, so that the disease does not spread. They are also ensuring that communities drink water that is clean by distributing chlorine. Further, some health education programmes are in place. I know for a fact that even at district boundaries we normally station health inspectors to ensure that they disinfect vehicles that move from one area to another.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Thank you, Madam Speaker. Let me join you in celebrating Amb. Hon. Kalimi’s return to the House.

Madam Speaker, during this time of the year there are many diarrheal diseases, such as typhoid whose cases are also on the rise. I would like to find out exactly what the ministry is doing about the cholera outbreak in the Eastern Province, particularly in Chipata? In her submission, the hon. Minister indicated that the disease emanated from Mozambique and Lusaka. The market in Chipata has been closed down so that the cleaning exercise can be done. Our livelihoods in the whole of the Eastern Province depend on that market because that is where we sell our products from. I want to find out how long it is going to take before the Saturday market in Chipata is opened up so that the people of Lundazi and other areas can benefit.

The Hon. Madam Speaker gave the Floor to the hon. Minister of Health, but the communication system in the House lost the video connection to her online feed.

Hon. PF Member: Ama bundles yapwa!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister of Health, are you still with us?

Mr B. Mpundu: She has been load-shed by Kapala.

Madam Speaker: Now that we have no one to answer the question, what do we do?

She has gone offline, unfortunately. Is there anybody who can volunteer to answer the question on her behalf?

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: Repeat the question.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Lundazi, there is a request for you to repeat the question.

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, as a concerned Member from the Eastern Province, I want to find out when the clean-up exercise at the Saturday market in Chipata will be done so that we can continue trading, especially that we depend on that market for economic benefits.

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima) (on behalf of the Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo)): Madam Speaker, although it is a new question, I will answer it as follows: When we complete the sanitising exercise, we will open the market. We are also concerned about the traders because that is where they earn their livelihoods. However, you cannot imagine how it looks between losing lives or keeping people outside trading. Both aspects are very important. The people earn a living out of trading. So, immediately we conclude that exercise, we will open the market.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

POWER SUPPLY DEFICIT IN THE COUNTRY

The Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala): Madam Speaker, I wish to thank you for granting me this opportunity to deliver a ministerial statement on the power supply deficit in the country and electricity load management programme, being implemented through our national utility company ZESCO Limited, and upward adjustment of electricity tariffs.

Madam Speaker, this ministerial statement follows an urgent matter without notice raised by Hon. Joel Chibuye, Member of Parliament for Roan Constituency, with regard to the direction being taken by the Ministry of Energy to ensure colleges have electricity.

In her response, Madam Speaker directed the hon. Minister of Energy to render a ministerial statement on the broader power supply deficit in the country.

Madam Speaker, allow me to remind ourselves and the nation that the country’s installed electricity generation capacity stands at 3,777 MW with hydro-power accounting for 3,154 MW representing 85 per cent of total generation capacity with a current estimated peak demand of 2,400 MW.

Madam Speaker, despite the installed electricity generation capacity, an estimated 900 MW is being generated from our major reservoir dams with a deficit of approximately 750 MW. The El Nino-induced drought phenomenon has caused a significant impact on the region's rainfall pattern. Zambia in particular, experienced a severe decline in rainfall, with the Zambezi and Kafue River basins, being significantly affected.

Madam Speaker, emanating from the low water levels, a planned load-shedding and load management was necessitated in March 2024 to avoid a complete shutdown of the power stations. Initially, an eight-hour load-shedding was effected on 11^th March, 2024. After a critical review of the on-going load management measures and low water levels in our major reservoirs, a decision was made to extend the daily hours of load-shedding from eight hours to twelve hours, staggered in intervals of six hours each day to ensure that power supply is available until the end of the year and further, prevent damage to the power generating machines due to insufficient water levels. The extension of the twelve hours of load-shedding took effect on Monday, 20^th May, 2024. However, abruption in the schedules coupled with longer hours of load-shedding may be experienced due to unforeseen technical faults or thefts of installations coupled with excessive consumption of power beyond the available allocated power. Going forward, we shall ensure that timely communication is done to inform the public accordingly.

Madam Speaker, in implementing the load-shedding programme, ZESCO Limited considered the vital role played by strategic institutions such as health facilities, water utilities, industry and mining firms as well as security wings. Therefore, these critical institutions and establishments have been exempted from load management. Should those experience power outages, it would be due to technical faults or theft of installations or excessive power usage as alluded to earlier.

Madam Speaker, the Government has noted the need for a lasting solution that fosters the provision of affordable and sustainable energy services. In this regard, the following measures have been put in place:

Short Term Measures

1. power imports (firm and non-firm power): Currently, power import stands at 165 MW. In addition, ZESCO Limited has also clawed back 160 MW of power from export contracts;
2. restarting of the 105 MW Ndola Energy Power Plant: Currently, the Ministry of Energy, ZESCO Limited and Ndola Energy Company Limited (NECL) are undertaking negotiations with a view to restarting the power plant by July, 2024;
3. development of a 100 MW Solar PV power plant in Chisamba: The Government, through ZESCO Limited, is developing the project which is scheduled to be completed in December, 2024;
4. installation of 120 MW of diesel generators in Ndola and Mpika;
5. the Government, through the Energy Regulation Board (ERB), has streamlined the licensing processes in order to apply light-handed regulations on entities that would want to set up generation plants from 0 MW to 5 MW; and
6. the Cabinet this week approved the open access and net metering regulations. These regulations will enable industry and households to supply electricity to the national grid and earn an income by selling the power.

Madam Speaker, open access does not mean unbundling ZESCO Limited, but is meant to allow power producers to use the transmission network to wheel power to the intended off-takers at agreed terms and conditions with assured non-discrimination.

Tariffs and Power Purchase Agreements

ZESCO Limited has been directed to speed up and on-board all independent power producers (IPPs), with competitive tariffs during this crisis.

Madam Speaker, on long-term and medium-term projects:

1. Renewable Energy Expansion: 120 MW solar PV portfolio, implementation of a 120 MW portfolio of solar PV power projects under the Global Energy Transfer Feed-in Tariff commonly known as the GET-FiT Programme. This programme is nearing financial close and we anticipate that the construction will commence this year 2024;
2. Maamba Collieries Phase II: Plans are underway to develop the 300 MW Maamba Coal Power Plant. We anticipate that financial closure will be reached by 30^th June, 2024 and construction is expected to commence this year. The signing of the implementation agreement has been scheduled for 21^st June, 2024; and
3. Luapula Site CX Hydro-power Project: Plans are already underway to expedite progress on the development of the 271 MW Luapula Hydro-power Project on the Luapula River.

Madam Speaker, at this juncture, allow me to update this august House on the upward adjustment of electricity tariffs through the Energy Regulation Board commonly known as ERB.

Madam Speaker, the recently approved upward adjustment of the electricity tariff was in line with the cost-of-service study findings, which recommended cost-reflective tariff. The adjustment was also granted in accordance with the Energy Regulation Act No. 12 of 2019, which allows for multi-year tariff adjustment upon an application by a utility company.

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that ZESCO Limited applied for an upward adjustment of electricity tariffs through the ERB, in December, 2022. The application was approved effective 1^st May, 2023. This was a multi-year tariff application for the period 2023-2027 in line with the Electricity Act No. 11 of 2019 provisions. The approved adjustments were as follows:

1. adjustment of the ZESCO tariff structure by increasing the number of bands for customers in the residential, commercial and social categories;
2. introduction of a new category for water pumping stations owned by water utility companies; and
3. abolishment of the Maximum Demand (MD) Category number 4 (MD4) and the migration of the said band to Power Supply Agreements (PSA). The MD4 customer category includes all those whose consumption is greater than 5000 kVA.

Madam Speaker, according to the 2023-2027 multi-year tariff framework, adjustments have been conditionally approved by the ERB as follows; at 37 per cent in 2023, 9 per cent in 2024, 15 per cent in 2025, 10 per cent in 2026 and 14 per cent in 2027.

Madam Speaker, it is important to state that the Board of the ERB allowed ZESCO Limited to migrate to the 2024 pre-approved multi-year tariffs for retail (domestic) consumers while the 2025 to 2027 tariffs remain conditionally approved, subject to ERB’s annual review of the Regulatory Clearing Account (RCA).

Madam Speaker, the expected outcomes of the multi-year tariffs are as follows:

1. improved service delivery through the provision of electricity services;
2. improved security of supply through investment in alternative renewable energy sources;
3. improved financial position of the utility, which is ZESCO Limited;
4. increased number of private sector participation in the electricity supply industry to bring about competition; and
5. effective maintenance of the ZESCO Limited infrastructure.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I wish to submit that the current situation has negatively impacted households and businesses. The Government recognises the challenges that the load-shedding hours and electricity tariff adjustment present. However, these measures are meant to sustain ZESCO Limited’s operations and attract investments both for our utility company and in the broader electricity sub-sector and improve service delivery to the customers. Therefore, the Government, through the Ministry of Energy, remains committed to seeking sustainable solutions to resolve the electricity crisis while enabling sustainable operations for our national utility, which is ZESCO Limited.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement issued by the hon. Minister of Energy.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that blanket answer which has catered for other issues. My raising an urgent matter without notice was premised on the lamentations and complaints raised by students in higher learning institutions. In his statement, the hon. Minister mentioned that there are some institutions that are exempted from load-shedding such as security firms, water utilities, and health institutions. Does the hon. Minister not think that it will be ideal to include higher learning institutions into this bracket?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I have already indicated that all learning institutions are exempted from load-shedding.

Interruptions

Hon. PF Members: Which ones?

Mr Kapala: Higher learning institutions are exempted.

Ms Mulenga: Ba Kapala, lekeni ifyo!

Interruptions

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, as I alluded to in my report, in other areas, especially where these institutions are located, there could be faults in the power line, hence causing load-shedding.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Speaker, I implore the Government to be serious. This is a security matter. I think, we need to be serious. Let me appeal to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security to tell his colleagues in that Cabinet to be serious with matters of security. They beat the commercial interest. We cannot sit here –

Madam Speaker, you live in Zambia. We hear that all learning institutions have been exempted from load-shedding. Where?

Ms Mabonga: As if it is a joke!

Interruptions

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, before I come back to my question, I want to appeal to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security to reign over his friends. Matters of security –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Let us listen to the question.

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, the Energy Regulation Board Chairperson stated that he was fired because of the approved tariffs adjustment. Yesterday, the hon. Member for Kamfinsa rose on an urgent matter without notice concerning the shortage of water supply in Kamfinsa Constituency, and you directed the hon. Minister to issue a statement concerning that. Today, we were dealing with the cholera outbreak, which is threatening our national security and peace and the hon. Minister has not talked about what he is doing to improve the supply of water to the citizens of Zambia because water reticulation systems are also being load-shed. For example, in some areas in Lusaka, power is switched off at 0500 hours and restored at 0100 hours.

Mr Nkandu: Question!

Mr Chitotela: In other areas, when people wake up at 0500 hours, there is no power. However, hon. Members of Parliament are able to bath at the Member’s Motel.

Ms Mulenga: Natulamba nokulamba!

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, what is the hon. Minister doing to make sure that, firstly, he does not compromise the security of this nation by recklessly load-shedding higher learning institutions?

Ms Sefulo: Recklessly?

Mr Chitotela: Yes!

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, secondly, what is the hon. Minister doing to make sure that residents experience twelve hours of load-shedding and are not subjected to twenty-four hours of load-shedding? People stay for the whole day and night without electricity. What is the hon. Minister doing to mitigate this problem so that we do not suffer from cholera? We do not want to die.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the Member for Pambashe, Hon. Chitotela, talked about the firing of the board chairperson of the ERB and he is insinuating that it was as a result of the approved tariff adjustment. Let me put it on record that the firing of the board chairperson had nothing whatsoever to do with the tariff adjustment, but an internal administrative matter.  I end there.

Madam Speaker, ZESCO Limited is doing the best it can under the circumstances to ensure that all institutions that I mentioned are supplied with power twenty-fours a day, seven days in a week.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the statement. Let us try to be factual and truthful to the Zambian people on the issue of electricity.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Michelo: The power supply deficit that the Zambian people are facing this time around is not of our own making, but the drought that we experienced. So, let us try by all means to be factual, sympathetic and truthful to the Zambian people.

Madam Speaker, the prices of lighting systems, the solar systems, irrigation systems, and also wind energy equipment have continued skyrocketing, but there was a pronouncement that these pieces of equipment have been zero-rated. When farmers and people from the compounds go to different shops to buy the equipment, they discover that they are very expensive. What is the Ministry of Energy together with the Ministry of Finance and National Planning doing so that the equipment can be reduced and bought at a reasonable price so that we can manage to mitigate the crisis, which we are in right now as a country?

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Can we listen to the questions and answers, please. There is too much noise.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for this question.

I wish to state that we have started auditing companies that are selling items at inflated prices rather than the recommended ones because they are reaping more than their fair share. In order to increase access to electricity, ZESCO Limited has set up a company that will soon bring solar equipment for households, farms and industries and that equipment will be fairly priced. I can assure the Zambian people that they will see a drop in the price of solar panels and accessories.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the statement.

Madam Speaker, the Government is encouraging farmers to start up irrigation systems especially commercial farmers to mitigate the problem of hunger, which we are facing due to the shortage of maize. However, many farmers especially commercial farmers are complaining that they are unable to carry out irrigation farming due to load-shedding. Is the hon. Minister considering including commercial farmers on the list of critical institutions so that they are not load-shed for them to carry out proper irrigation, which will enhance food security?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, ZESCO Limited is doing its best to ensure that farmers who provide a lifeline to this country are not load-shed. The ERB will soon issue regulations on power generation. This means that one can install solar from 1 MW to 5 MW without going through the rigorous process of feasibility studies and all that. I am sure, most of the farmers will take up this idea and will start implementing power projects at their farms.

Madam Speaker, we have gone further than that. We have offered members of the Zambia National Farmers Union (ZNFU), reasonably priced diesel so that they can use it to power their centre pivots and for general irrigation.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the statement.

Madam Speaker, hospitals, clinics, security camps, small businesses, and almost every institution is being load-shed. Businesses are closing down, our economy is limping and everything is almost at a standstill because of the power outages that we have right now. Hospitals are being load-shed even in Mpika. Right now, bodies are rotting in mortuaries. That is a fact.

Madam Speaker, arising from the fact that His Excellency the President declared the drought a national disaster, is the Government considering cancelling the exportation of electricity? We cannot be exporting power when we are suffering. Our people are suffering, yet we have continued to export and beg for power. By the way, are the countries that we are exporting power to also experiencing load-shedding that we, the owners of the power, are experiencing?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, we, as the Government, need to run this country prudently.  The little money that we gett from exports goes towards paying independent power producers (IPPs) contracts that are signed in hard currency, which is the United States of America (US) Dollar, and that offsets the effects on ZESCO Limited. If we suddenly stop all exports, it will distabilise the grid. Secondly, it will make ZESCO Limited fail to start honouring the monthly bills that it pays in US Dollars. Yes, we appreciate and understand that we are in a very difficult situation and this is not the making of ZESCO Limited, rather is what they call force majeure in law. So, we have to deal with this situation. Therefore, we need level-headed people to guide us and give solutions so that we can pull this together.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity –

Mr Kapyanga rose.

 Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Mpika, you have already asked your question. So, you cannot counter what the hon. Minister has said through a point of order. I wish we had a solution because all of us want solutions.

Hon. Member for Bwacha, you may continue.

Mr Mushanga: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity you have given me to ask a question. I would also like to thank the hon. Minister for the statement issues to the people of Zambia through this nation.

 Madam Speaker, the load-shedding schedule in most places in Kabwe is very different. Power is cut off as early as 0400 am in the morning and is restored between 2200 hours and 2300 hours. Sometimes, ZESCO Limited does not even follow the scheduled timetable. In Kabwe, the duration of load-shedding is, in some cases, more than twenty hours. So, how do people plan? Can the hon. Minister inform the people of Kabwe through this august House the duration of load-shedding in a day?

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, on a point of order.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, the hon. Colleague who raised a matter of urgent public importance without notice, which has been rephrased, was seeking solutions. The United Party for National Development (UPND) Government was afforded an opportunity by the Zambian people to form Government and be able to provide solutions.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister cannot come here and tell us that there is no solution.

Mr Mushanga: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, is it impossible for the Government to declare to the Zambian people that it has no solution on the Floor of the House?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Energy in order to tell us that there is no solution?

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, the current President told us and the nation that load-shedding is as a result of poor leadership because in Dubai where it never rains, there is no load-shedding.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to not learn from the President and bring solutions for the people of Zambia?

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

Mr Mukosa: Shame!

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, my point of order is based on Standing Order No. 71.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Let us not politicise these questions. From where I am seated, I could hear that it was the hon. Member for Mpika who said that there were no solutions and that is when I reacted by saying that I wish we could find solutions. I did not hear the hon. Minister say that. The hon. Minister is here in the House. Maybe, he can speak for himself.

Hon. Minister, did you say that you had no solutions?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, if hon. Members paid attention when an hon. Minister is issuing a ministerial statement, such sentiments would not arise because I stated in my speech that we have short-term measures. What are measures? These are solutions.

Ms Sefulo: Yes!

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, is it a question of education where one cannot differentiate between measures and solutions?

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Let us get back to business.

Hon. Member for Lunte, I have noticed you have been going in and out of the House. So, I do not know whether you were following.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I was here.

Madam Speaker: Well, from here, I can see so much. Alright, let us listen to the questions and answers. If we talk, then we will not hear the answers. Let us get back to business.

Hon. Minister, you can answer the question by the hon. Member for Bwacha.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the schedule is twelve hours of load-shedding and that is official. However, we have received complaints such as the one the hon. Member of Bwacha has indicated. We have instructed ZESCO Limited to follow the timetable. We will follow-up and then act if ZESCO Limited fails to continue adhering to the timetable.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Let us not talk until we are called upon to take the Floor.

Hon. Member for Solwezi East, you may proceed.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister talked about strategic institutions. In Mushindamo, we have a line that covers 127 km from Solwezi to the Kipushi Border. There are security features at that border and there is a girls' secondary boarding school. Most of the power is consumed at Kamitonte, Katandano and the Zambia National Service (ZNS). So, when there is load-shedding, we suffer the consequences on the other side and there is no water supply for two to three days at the girls' secondary school. I have received messages concerning diseases that have broken out at that school. Is it possible that the ministry can divert the line that goes to the border so that the girls do not continue to suffer and the security at the border is not compromised as opposed to load-shedding that line every time, yet we consume very low power at the border because of the ZNS?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, ZESCO Limited is planning how it can remove customers who are connected to lines connected to hospitals. So, this is an exercise that the company will do so that we can prevent such occurrences in the future.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kafwaya rose.

Madam Speaker: So, hon. Member for Lunte is again leaving the House. He has been in and out of the House.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: You can take leave hon. Member.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, we are all aware that we are in this situation because of the drought. No one would want to load-shed a country and, if anything, ZESCO Limited is losing a lot of money through load-shedding. We are aware of that, and if we are not careful and do not learn lessons from this, this might reoccur in the near future because we have seen that climate change is real.

Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if the ministry has any plans of investing in coal-fired power plants. I ask this question because Maamba Collieries Limited produces more than 300 MW. In places like the northern region, we have plenty of coal. We have plenty of coal not only in Maamba but also in Chama. We have huge deposits in Mafinga probably more than in Maamba. Is the hon. Minister putting in place measures to ensure that investors are directed to such areas so that if we are in this situation again, we will not be impacted the way we have been impacted?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, it is true that the wise men came from the East and that is Chama South, I appreciate the hon. Member’s contribution.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale: Question!

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, we intend to put up an additional 300 MW at Maamba. The construction of two or three coal-powered plants will start next year. So, in the next two to three years, we should see close to 800 MW using coal as a source of energy.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mabumba (Mwense): Madam Speaker, one of the measures the hon. Minister mentioned is the implementation of the open-access transmission distribution lines. However, the success of that particular policy decision will depend on the leadership he will provide. In my view, it is an overdue policy decision that all of us should find a way of embracing, but its success will depend on him.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that open-access transmission does not mean that ZESCO Limited is going to be unbundled. Its intention is to attract investment and create competition. Therefore, ZESCO Limited will also become a competitor. Since, the hon. Minister said that it does not mean the unbundling of ZESCO Limited, what comfort are the private sectors going to draw if the transmission and distribution assets are going to be owed by ZESCO Limited?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, open-access means ZESCO Limited will be a player like other independent power producers (IPP). We are going to create a systems operator and a market operator, who will be responsible for ensuring that the grid stability is maintained and the trading power is favourable to everyone.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Ms S. Mwamba (Kasama Central): Madam Speaker, Liquid Petroleum Gas popularly known as (LPG) is an alternative source of energy and its retail price is currently between K42 and K45. Therefore, a household uses 30 kg per month, which comes to K1,350. The price is not affordable for most households. As a short-term measure, does the Government have any plans to subsidise the cost of LPG in order to make it more affordable for most citizens, especially the women fork who mostly prepare food in the households?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I do not have the figures to compare with. However, the hon. Member should inbox me. I can discuss this with Hon. Chipoka because this is a matter of commerce and we should be able to come up with something affordable and accessible to everybody. We encourage clean cooking in the country as opposed to burning charcoal and cutting trees.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, allow me to congratulate the hon. Minister of Justice on her new appointment. This has been my desire and I hope that at the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Art also, there will be a female hon. Minister soon.

Hon. Members: Question!

Laughter

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, we need more women in the Executive. The Shipolopolo Football Team has been doing fine unlike the Chipolopolo team.  So, I think that at the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Art there should also be a woman.

Madam Speaker, most hon. Members of Parliament have lamented on most sensitive areas that are being load-shed. I arrived from Lusaka at around 0100 hours. I passed through Lwanfumu Zambia National Service and it was dark. In Nchelenge, the police station was in darkness, and in Chienge it was the same situation. 

Madam Speaker, nowadays, if one wants to listen to the radio, which also plays a big role in terms of the security of the nation, one will not do so because the radio stations are always off. So, when the hon. Minister says that there are certain institutions that would not be load-shed, I thought these are the areas that the ministry would look into or make it cheaper and easy for the radio stations and critical institutions not to be load-shed as it has been in our country.

Madam Speaker, therefore, when is the Government going to give the people a cheaper source of electricity in the form of solar through these institutions?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I would firstly like to encourage the hon. Member of Parliament for Chienge, to be listening to Ngumbo FM Radio, which is solar powered as she goes to her constituency.

Madam Speaker, I indicated that ZESCO Limited has formed a company specifically for renewables, and will import thousands of equipment for solar installations. When those are in the country, I can assure the nation that we will be able to access them at a reasonable price.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, I am aware that the hon. Minister has taken quite a lot of time to explain some of the long-term steps that are being taken to resolve this problem. However, there is one aspect that has not been clarified and I hope that the question that I am about to ask will be responded to very clearly.

Madam Speaker, how much power are we exporting to different stakeholders within the Southern African Power Pool?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, we are exporting 95 MW to Namibia, 60 MW to Botswana and 40 MW to the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC).

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, I would like to welcome back Hon. Amb. Kalimi to the House and congratulate Hon. Kasune on her new position.

Madam Speaker, ZESCO Limited has been struggling in terms of making profit for some time now. Therefore, I just want to understand whether the 10 per cent increment is cost-reflective.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, sorry I did not pick the question. May the hon. Member repeat the question?

Madam Speaker: May the hon. Member of Parliament for Nalolo repeat his question.

Mr Wamunyima: Madam Speaker, I want to find out if the 10 per cent increase in the ZESCO tariffs is cost-reflective.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, these are tariffs that were approved by the ERB. I think, I will repeat the information that I gave out in my statement.

Madam Speaker, the ERB approved 37 per cent in 2023, 9 per cent in 2024, 15 per cent in 2025, 10 per cent in 2026 and 14 per cent in 2027. It is anticipated that there will be cost-reflective tariffs.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has told the nation through this House that the ministry has put in measures to mitigate load-shedding. In view of the plans that the hon. Minister has made and the interventions that the ministry has put in place, people out there want to know when everything will get back to normal. Could the hon. Minister kindly give us a timeframe and indicate the year when everything will get back to normal and the situation will normalise?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I stated when we were inspecting the Kariba Dam that we are going to review the situation in September then I will come back and give a better timeline as to when we will feel comfortable to announce that load-shedding will end.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, allow me to welcome back Hon. Amb. Kalimi to the House.

 

REHABILITATION OF ZAMPALM/MACHELETA/NCHUBULA ROAD IN KANCHIBIYA CONSTITUENCY

 

349. Mr Chanda asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

1. when rehabilitation works on the Zampalm/Macheleta/Nchubula Road in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency will commence;
2. what the timeframe for the completion of the project, is;
3. how many bridges are earmarked for construction along the road;
4. who the contractor for the project, is; and
5. what the cost of the project is.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, let me also, at this time, take this opportunity to welcome back to the House, the Member of Parliament for Malole, Hon. Amb. Kalimi. I think, all of us are excited to see him back with us. I wish him continued recovery until he goes back to 100 per cent. I am happy to see him.

Madam Speaker, the rehabilitation of works on the Zampalm/Macheleta/Nchubula Road in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency will commence when the Treasury secures the funds for the project. The timeframe for the project will be known once the Treasury secures the funds and designs are prepared and the contractor is engaged.

Madam Speaker, the envisaged scope of works on the road will cover the construction and rehabilitation of all crossing points on this particular road.

Madam Speaker, the contractor for the project will be known once the procurement for the works is completed.

Madam Speaker, the cost of the project will also only be known once the contractor has been engaged.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, let me clarify that we submit a number of these questions and sometimes they seem monotonous, for the reason that Kanchibiya presents us with about three different terrains. This area falls around the Bangweulu Wetlands and this makes it very difficult for us to attend to the needs of this road, which is 37 km, using our means or our resources. As the hon. Minister is aware, we, as a district, using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) procured earth-moving equipment and we understand that resource mobilisation might be a challenge for some time. Therefore, my question is: Would the Road Development Agency (RDA) be in a position to partner with us through which we can avail the earth-moving equipment and it can come in with the expertise and probably the fuel? We have the equipment, but what we do not have is the money to attend to this road. However, if the RDA provides expertise and the fuels, I think, we can do something about this road.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, we, at the ministry, and the Road Development Agency (RDA), are prepared to work with the hon. Members of Parliament who in certain cases surrender some funds or equipment as the hon. Member has explained, to ensure that we service our country. We understand that the terrains across our country differ. Therefore, in some areas, there is a lot more work that needs to be done, especially in wetlands. However, I know that a number of constituencies procured earth-moving equipment, but the councils in these places forgot to make arrangements to ensure that there are enough materials to allow the earth-moving equipment to operate. A word of caution to other constituencies is that they should not just be ordering or buying earth-moving equipment. They should also make provisions for fuel so that those pieces of equipment can operate, and also for operators of that equipment. The equipment is at the council headquarters, but they remain idly. Once the equipment is bought, we expect it to operate. So, operators or drivers, fuel and greases should be provided to ensure that the equipment is operated properly.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, let me clarify that we budgeted for fuel. I know that there is going to be a by-election in Kanchibiya and all roads will lead to that particular ward. Our earth-moving equipment is working on the Luchembe/Kopa Road, but we did not budget for this particular road because of its terrain, because it will gobble most of our Constituency Development Fund (CDF).  That is why I proposed that we can avail the equipment and the RDA which is doing a commendable job on the Kaonda Bridge, can bring in the expertise and help us with the fuel so that this area can be accessible to our people.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I think, let us engage. So, when the hon. Minister goes to assess the situation in the near future, I hope he will not be accused of going there because there is a by-election. We will go there because the hon. Member says there is a need for us to visit. So, we will be there.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much. Let us make progress.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, let me welcome back Hon. Amb. Kalimi to the House.

Amb. Kalimi indicated assent.

GOVERNMENT FUNDING TO SCHOOLS

350. Mr Miyutu asked the Minister of Education:

1. how regularly schools are funded by the Government;
2. how the funds are utilised; and
3. how school pupils and communities benefit from the funding.

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima): Madam Speaker, I would also like to welcome back the hon. Member of Parliament for Malole to the House.

Amb. Kalimi did not indicate assent.

Madam Speaker: He did not hear.

Hon. Member for Malole, you are being welcomed back.

Amb. Kalimi indicated assent.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, those of us who are prayerful kept him in prayer. As a reverend, I kept him in my prayers and I will continue praying for him.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that schools are funded by the Government on a quarterly basis and funds are disbursed every first week of each quarter.

Madam Speaker, the grants given to schools by the Government are a key resource in implementing school-related programmes. The programmes are strategically planned and aligned with the school budget, grant guidelines and financial regulations to ensure the effective utilisation of the funds.

Madam Speaker, the direct impact of funding on pupils is significant. The money allocated to institutions not only provides facilities and enhances educational opportunities, but also supports disadvantaged students and fosters innovation and creativity. The funds also lead to the creation of more curriculum options, fostering a conducive teaching and learning environment that helps students achieve better learning outcomes, including high test scores, increased graduation rates and other improved indicators of student achievement.

Madam Speaker, from the community point of view, in the short term, funding to schools creates businesses with skilled or trained workforce and fosters networking opportunities that build and enhance partnerships. In other words, the community benefits include, but are not limited to, the following:

1. creates employment for local communities as schools pay them wages, which are crucial for their economic growth and social stability;
2. the burden of paying school fees has been taken over by the Government creating additional disposable income for their other needs; and
3. community members who have the capacity to supply to schools are given business opportunities for various school requisites.

In the long term, Madam Speaker, public education is a worthy investment of this Government with immense social and economic benefits not only for learners, but also for the communities. Research shows that individuals who graduate and have access to quality education throughout primary and secondary school, are more likely to find gainful employment, have stable families, and be active and productive citizens. They are also less likely to commit serious crimes, place high demands on the public healthcare system and be enrolled in welfare assistance programmes such as the Social Cash Transfer (SCT).

Madam Speaker, a good education provides substantial benefits to individuals, as individual benefits are aggregated throughout a community, creates broad social and economic benefits. We believe that investing in public education is, thus, far more cost-effective for our Government than paying for the social and economic consequences of underfunded and low-quality schools.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, it has been observed, in some schools in Kalabo, that the fruits of the grants are not visible, meaning that the communities are not observing any change despite the schools receiving grants quarterly, as the hon. Minister has mentioned. What measures will the Government take to enhance the expenditure of grants to the schools such that it bears fruits for the communities to observe?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, there are guidelines that we have formulated that are specific on how the grants are to be utilised, and the communities are supposed to be involved. communities are supposed to form, if you like, committees that should oversee the disbursement of the grants. Obviously, the hon. Minister cannot be in Kalabo every day. So, the hon. Member must also be involved and urge him to get involved. The grants are public money.

Madam Speaker, maybe, let me even sound a warning. We revised the guidelines, which everybody must adhere to. I know that it is very difficult to control people’s appetite to abuse public funds. It is something that people got used to. We are revising the curriculum because there is a generation that we want to salvage. The current generation is finished. Old habits die hard. We shall continue to watch over all those who are given public funds. People must fear using something that is not theirs, and that goes to all public institutions not only in the education system, but in the whole Republic. We must fear. So, let us all get involved in ensuring that all the committees that were put in place know that the guidelines are straightforward. If one abuses the funds, that person will be on their own.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi): Thank you so much, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, it is undisputed that grants are now being disbursed to schools at the right time, and we thank the Government for that. My question is: Are the grants disbursed based on the population of learners at a school or they are given as a uniform lump sum figure to all the schools? If the grants are disbursed based on the population of learners, how often does the ministry review the number of learners in schools?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, 90 per cent of the grants disbursed in schools are based on the population of children in schools.  I signed something yesterday regarding an exercise to check on the number of learners in schools. There was an incident in which the reports that were coming in showed that headteachers were indicating more numbers, than the actual case, to get more money. We are now making that impossible by conducting on-spot checks. In fact, with computers, and through the National Information Centre we will know how many children are at each school.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, I know that the hon. Minister has given us correct answers and I appreciate the fact that schools are receiving grants. His wish is that students in universities obtain proper degrees so that we do not talk about the issues of power because there are many uranium deposits in this country. If we educate our children well, we will be talking about nuclear power so that we can stop depending on hydro-power. This country has many uranium deposits. However, our education system does not permit us to consider that alternative.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has already answered one of the questions I wanted to ask. He knows where I come from and the challenges we have there. So, I just want him to tell me something. When the ministry is disbursing grants to schools that are connected to the national grid and that generate power from electricity generators (gensets), does it give out the same allocation or is there a difference? If the ministry does not give out the same allocation, does it have any plans to increase grant allocations to schools that run on power produced from gensets?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, that is actually a suggestion that the hon. Member has made. I think, we will look into it.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, the grants that were allocated to schools were budgeted for. However, due to the impact of the drought, is the hon. Minister considering increasing the grants to schools? The increase in the budget would help to cover the purchase of generators for secondary schools that conduct science programmes as they need power to carry out laboratory tests. What is the ministry doing to cushion the challenges the secondary schools are facing because of the impact of the drought in the country?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, in fact, my ministry and the Ministry of Energy were directed at the last Cabinet meeting to sit down together and look into that. As to whether the grants will be increased or not, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning is re-aligning the Budget. However, we will sit down with the Ministry of Energy and respond to the impact of the drought. I think, we are on course. It is only that I did not have time to meet my colleague, Hon. Kapala. All we are trying to do now is go the solar way. We cannot continuously depend on hydro-power. We have already seen that when the heavens shut, we are in trouble.

 Madam Speaker, this is also a lesson. Let me just say something. Last year, the President urged everyone to plant during the farming season and Zambians responded and they planted. However, the heavens were shut. We must take that as a positive because it has taught us that rain-fed agriculture is not sustainable anymore. We must now engage in irrigation farming. So, this is a learning process. Sometimes there are certain things that God teaches us, right? We are now talking about drought and electricity. It has also shown us that hydro-electricity is not sustainable. We may now have to have an alternative. God has given us a chance the rethink.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The question has been over-debated. However, I will allow the people who indicated to ask questions.

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, I just want to commend the hon. Minister for the good work he is doing in the ministry. We can see the reforms.

Madam Speaker, some schools have been cited in the Auditor-General’s Report, particularly on the handling of the grants. Most of the teachers are not trained to understand the requirements of the Public Finance Management Act of 2018 and the Procurement Act of 2020, and there is a failure to present account documents. How is the hon. Minister going to address this issue considering that schools in rural areas do not have accountants who can trace how this money is being used?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, that has been our concern as well, but let me just say something on this. Since teachers have not done book-keeping or accountancy, at least they can get people who did book-keeping and accounts at school even if they are not trained in that to help them. The issue is that people do not need to be rocket scientists to follow the guidelines. That they are given. Sometimes it is just deliberate. We know they are not trained in that and obviously, they will say that they are not trained. That will be their argument.

Madam Speaker, although I cannot promise, we will try at some points, to get people who understand even basic things, such as the Act that the hon. Member talked about. However, these are people who are trained as primary school teachers and have diplomas, and degrees. So, apart from the element of doing it deliberately, it is just something else. I think the hon. Member’s question is quite important and we have to get to the bottom of this issue in order for people not to excuse themselves just because they were not trained.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Madam Speaker, allow me to join my hon. Colleagues in welcoming back Hon. Amb. Kalimi to the House. Further, I have noticed some facelifts in some quarters within our premises. This is so good. Thank you.

Madam Speaker, the funds are well intended, and I thank the Government for that. However, some schools have been cited in the Auditor-General’s Report, but were they all audited or not? In view of the drought this year, does the hon. Minister intend to increase the funds to mitigate the effects of drought? In Mitete, believe me, this term and the next term, pupils may go to school on an empty stomach.  As we are re-budgeting, is the hon. Minister thinking of pupils in Mitete, Washishi in particular?

Madam Speaker, may I also congratulate the hon. Minister of Justice on her new appointment.

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, this is quite an important question. I will explain how we want to mitigate the hunger situation, especially in schools. We already have the school feeding programme and it is being implemented in forty-nine districts. However, when the President declared drought an emergency, it was found that seventy-eight districts in the whole country were the ones that were affected by hunger. We intend to feed the children in those seventy-eight districts so that they can start going to school. We sympathise with the people in that situation because as of now we have not yet started doing that. However, when I went to Brussels recently, Global Partnering for Education (GPE) gave us some money for school feeding. So, instead of forty-nine districts, we will now cater for seventy-eighty districts, and even the elderly people will also be fed. So, certainly, we cannot fail to feed children so that they can go to school.

Madam Speaker, there is one thing that is so peculiar that I want the nation to understand. Before free education, there was so much absenteeism in schools, yet there was school feeding. After free education, we have seen so many children going to school. So, it is not feeding that takes children to school, it is free education as of now. After free education was implemented, everybody now wants to go to school and the absenteeism rates have gone down. What it means is that, children were thirsty for knowledge, but parents could not afford to take them to school. Today, because of free education, parents can afford to take their children to school, and are able to keep the money they were supposed to pay for their children in their pockets. That is already a mitigation measure and many people forget the fact that this Government has done a lot. Two million more children are now in school. Where were they?

Mr Samakayi: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: It means that is true parents could not afford to take their children to school. Today, the Government has taken over the burden. By the way, we also pay for the pupil’s examination. We do not ask parents to do that. Parents used to pay for that. So, the question that the hon. Member for Mitete asked is very important. We are looking into that and we shall make sure that every child who is in a precarious situation like what the hon. Member talked about, is fed so that he/she can go to school.

I thank you. Madam Speaker.

Mr Chisanga (Lukashya): Madam Speaker, let me join my other colleagues in congratulating the hon. Minister of Justice on her well-deserved appointment. She comes to the ministry when the country is in need of reforms in the justice sector. I hope she can partner with other members and stakeholders to ensure that we spearhead this journey.

Mr Samakayi: Question!

Mr Chisanga: I also want to welcome back Hon. Amb. Kalimi to the House, we thank God for his complete healing.

Madam Speaker, I just want to find out from the Government's perspective if there is a system of Monitoring and Evolution (M&E) to ensure that the funds that are allocated are properly deployed. I ask this question because schools now receive grants even for bursaries from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). I just want to know if there is a system of M&E to ensure that these things are properly done.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I do not know whether the hon. Member heard what I said earlier. I said that we now have committees that conduct Monitoring and Evolution (M&E) that is being done. We are experiencing teething problems, but I think, we are getting there.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, before I ask a question, allow me to thank you for the way our restrooms are looking. We appreciate that so much. In case hon. Members have not been to the restrooms, they are quite neat.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

CONSTRUCTION OF CANAL IN CHITAMBO CONSTITUENCY

351. Mr Mutale asked the Minister of Transport and Logistics:

1. whether the Government has any plans to construct a canal to connect Katonga and Lulimala wards in Chitambo Parliamentary Constituency to the Luapula River;
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
3. if there are no such plans, why?

The Minister of Transport and Logistics (Mr Tayali): Madam Speaker, before I answer the question, allow me to thank God for our brother, Hon. Amb. Kalima who has returned to this House.

Ms Mabonga: It is Kalimi!

Mr Tayali: Kalimi. We are truly grateful for his safe return.

Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to develop, rehabilitate and maintain waterways across the country including in Chitambo Constituency, as espoused in the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP) and the National Transport Policy.

Madam Speaker, plans will be implemented once resources are made available as this was not provided for, in the 2024 Budget. Further, since the dredging functions are in the process of being devolved to the local authorities, the Government will consider making provisions for the construction of a canal to connect Katonga and Lulimala wards to Luapula Province through the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) for Chitambo Constituency.

Madam Speaker, as stated in part (a) above, the Government does have plans to construct a canal.

Madam Speaker, the construction of a canal to connect Katonga and Lulimala wards to Luapula Province will be implemented once resources are made available.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that we shall use the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to construct a canal to connect the people of Katonga and Lulimala wards to Luapula Province. Our CDF for the year 2024 has already been allocated by the Government. The Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development told us to buy an ambulance, build the chief's palace, and buy a motorbike for the chief’s retainer. The only money as Chitambo Constituency remained with was about K1 million out of the K16 million. So, we could not do anything after the other funds were removed. We could not budget for the construction of the canal because there was no money, hence my asking this question. This question arose because the people who were fishing from the Luapula Bridge, the famous Tuta Bridge, were removed from there by the Government through the Ministry of Tourism as they were told that it was a game management area (GMA). Those people are fishermen and that is their livelihood. They have a challenge in accessing the river called Luapula. The only way they could access that river was through a canal like the one we have which goes to Lunga District. Since people are not fishing right now and have no other means of survival, what interventions is the Government going to provide so that they can continue fishing, keep their families and have a means of survival?

Mr Tayali:  Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for the follow-up question. Suffice to say it that I hear the hon. Member of Parliament particularly when he brings out the plight of the people in that particular area who are predominantly fishermen. He indicated that they are unable to carry out their day-to-day activities to earn a living owing to certain changes that may have been orchestrated by my sister ministry; the Ministry of Tourism.

Madam Speaker, one thing I acknowledge is that yes, we do see the need to build a canal linking those two particular wards. Unfortunately, there was no provision in the 2024 Budget for the canal. Further, the CDF, indeed, is an annual allocation and I suppose the hon. Member will do well to engage the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development and should insist that that is a pressing need so that next time around, priority is given to this particular canal.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, I am very much aware of the CDF and I appreciate the Government for this money. However, even next year, I know that instructions will still be given. For example, I have already lobbied that we should build constituency offices and other directives will be given concerning the CDF.

Madam Speaker, what I want the hon. Minister to assure the people of Chitambo is that the ministry will put an allocation for the canal in this year’s budget. We only need about K5 million, to have this canal dug in that area. Will the hon. Minister include this budget line in his Budget for 2025?

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, I have been reluctant to make such a commitment owing to the fact that I stated that the function of dredging is in the process of being done to the local authorities. I think that I would be at variance with what my ministry’s policy is, going forward.  I would like to suggest to the hon. Member that perhaps he comes and engages with both the Ministry of Transport and Logistics as well as the Ministry Local Government and Rural Development to see what sort of interventions we can come up with to try and lighten the hon. Member’s burden.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kolala (Lufubu): Madam Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity.

Madam Speaker, if I were in the hon. Minister’s position, I would give the same answer because it is like he has just been ambushed. To exonerate himself, could the hon. Minister confirm that the Ministry of Tourism did not consult him when it was removing those people from that area so that maybe in the next budget, he can look at how best he can serve the people from that area who voted for us so that that need can be met.

Mr Tayali:  Madam Speaker, I would like to tell the hon. Member that we are, indeed, one Government and that I am neither the spokesperson nor the hon. Minister of Tourism to be able to throw such a question at the Ministry of Tourism. I think I have given the position as far as the Ministry of Transport and Logistics is concerned going by its function of dredging canals.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Menyani Zulu:  Madam Speaker, every Parliamentarian here appreciates the CDF. There has been the devolution of power from the Central Government to the local authority like in the case of Chitambo where the hon. Member said the local authority can do the dredging.  The hon. Minister may wish to understand that Chitambo Town Council has no dredger and getting a dredger from his ministry would be a challenge, knowing how expensive it is, but let me not go there. I say so because we once hired a dredger from the Ministry of Transport and Logistics and it was quite expensive to maintain it. We even had to pay Value Added Tax (VAT) on a Government to Government institution arrangement. So, it is quite cumbersome to get a dredger from the Ministry of Transport and Logistics.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has answered well that it is the same Government. Would he do us, as Parliamentarians, a favour by looking at both angles to see to it that this year, he gives us less instructions towards the CDF? There are too many instructions that are given such that at the end of the day, we cannot budget or plan because everything is done centrally. Would the hon. Minister do us a favour so that the young hon. Member for Chitambo there can budget properly and the canal can be dug.

Mr Mutale: Me, what?

Laughter

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for the follow-up question.

Madam Speaker, let me just guide and say that I think that as hon. Members of Parliament we have truly been given the leverage to ascertain that which is a priority on our constituencies.  I encourage all of us hon. Members of Parliament to be able to engage and not merely be recipients. Let us engage in discussions as to what activities we consider to be top priority in our constituencies. That is why I have encouraged the hon. Member for Chitambo to, indeed, follow-up on the issues so that arrangements can be made to alleviate the suffering of our people who engage in fishing activities in that particular area.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, one of the reasons that were advanced for chasing the people from the Tuta/Serenje Stretch was that they were disturbing wildlife, but I think those who pass through that route, would agree that physically, the number of lechwes had increased. So, possibly, the timing would have been wrong. Having said that, connecting the two wards using a canal is a serious and urgent economic activity because it will absolve those who were chased. I think, it is not a matter we should take causally. We need to be proactive about it.

Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Transport and Logistics sometimes keeps dredgers, equipment used for weeding, and the like. Why can the hon. Minister not get dredger from his ministry and take it to the constituency to connect the two wards and thereafter start looking for money to buy fuel and for other logistics so that the canal can be dug unlike waiting for the 2025 Budget? I say so because we have gotten dredgers before in Chilubi and Kaputa from his ministry.

Mr Nkandu: Question!

Mr Fube: Yes, I was a District Commissioner (DC) and I got a dredger from the ministry. So, what question are you talking about?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!  

Hon. Member for Chilubi, please, just focus on your question and you can even wind up.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, it is the questioning that has disturbed me. Anyway, I was talking about using the dredgers from the ministry. Some dredgers are marooned in Samfya. The ministry should take them to Chitambo and then look for fuel and dig the canal as opposed to waiting for the 2025 Budget.

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Chilubi loses me in this maze of things that he is referring to. He is now the one trying to take very causally a very important question.  Obviously, it takes quite a substantial amount of money to implement the digging of the canal. One thing he will appreciate is that in the New Dawn Government, we shall not just go about expending resources that have not been budgeted for. I guess that is why the previous Government got into so many problems. There was no integrity in the things that it was doing. Unfortunately, we are not that type of Government.

Mr Samakayi: Hear, hear!

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, we must stick to that which has been budgeted, for us to maintain the integrity of what we have planned vis-a-vis revenues against expenditures.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The last hon. Member to ask a question will be the hon. Member for Chitambo Constituency.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, it is a point of order because I have exhausted all my questions.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you can go ahead.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, from where you are seated, you can see that I have a bald head.

Laughter

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, my beard is white. This means that I am beyond fifty years. Was the hon. Member of Parliament for Nyimba in order to refer to me as a young Parliamentarian when in fact …

Interruptions

Mr Mutale: … he only came here yesterday and, for that matter, I am a former Whip of this House.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Nyimba in order to refer to me as a young Parliamentarian, and for that matter, he is no longer my traditional cousin.

Laughter

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I am sure that was on a lighter note, but we do not debate ourselves. For that matter, we are all hon. Members, whether young or old, but the thing is we are all addressed as hon. Members. Let us make progress.

CITIZENS’ ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT FUND

52. Mr Munsanje (Mbabala) asked the Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development:

1. how many beneficiaries of the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Fund there were in the following localities, as of December, 2023:
2. Choma District;
3. Mbabala Parliamentary Constituency; 
4. Mapanza Chiefdom in Choma District; and
5. Macha Chiefdom in Choma District;
6. how much money was disbursed in each locality at (a), as of December, 2023; and
7. whether the Government has any plans to increase the number of beneficiaries in Mbabala Parliamentary Constituency.

The Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development (Mr Mubanga): Madam Speaker, a total number of 2,258 persons benefitted from the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission Funds (CEEC) through various empowerment products as follows:

 

Locality                     Busulu Loans              Marketeer                    SMES              Total

                                                                      Booster Loans

 

Choma District         74                                1,628                           116                  1,818

Mbabala                    27                                   181                              3                      211

Constituency

Mapanza                   20                                   100                              1                       121

Chiefdom

Macha Chiefdom      25                                     81                              2                        108

Madam Speaker, a total of K48,883,727 was disbursed in all the localities as follows:

Locality                                             Amount Disbursed

 Choma District                                39,591,246

Mbabala Constituency                      4,482,480

Mapanza Chiefdom                          539,000

Macha Chiefdom                              4,271,000

Total funded                                     48,883,727

Madam Speaker, the Government, through CEEC, has plans to increase the number of beneficiaries in all the constituencies throughout the country, particularly in rural areas.

Madam Speaker, citing areas like Kaputa, ...

Mr Nkandu: Hear, hear!

Mr Mubanga: ... Chienge and Lundazi will be among the beneficiaries of the increased empowerment fund.

Madam Speaker, the Government has recognised a huge demand for the empowerment fund and it will be able to partner with other stakeholders so that it sources for more funds.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development for the response and supporting the people of Choma District and Mbabala, in particular. We wish for more as per our other question.

Madam Speaker, some people in Mbabala Constituency who applied for the loans have tracking numbers while others do not because they took the forms to the hon. Minister’s office in Choma. Therefore, what action is the ministry taking to ensure that the people who applied for the loans, actually receive them? I would like to see those people receive the loans. It has taken too long for them to receive the loans.

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, my ministry, through the CEEC, has received many applications throughout the country including from the hon. Member’s constituency. There are about 30 billion applications at the ministry. The CEEC receives only K500 million from the Government, so the percentage is not so much at the ministry and that is why many people, who have applied for the loans at the CEEC have not been attended to up to date. So, the funds the CEEC receives from the Government are not adequate for everyone to receive at the same time. However, in my response, I said that the ministry is trying to partner with private sector that will come and fill up the gap.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, please, let us give room to the hon. Minister. The voices are becoming too loud. Let us lower our voices.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, what I know is that the President is running a Government that is all-inclusive. Therefore, in view of the statistics that the hon. Minister has given that there are over 2,000 people who have benefited from the loans, how many persons with disabilities, have actually been empowered with those funds?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you hon. Member, except that your question was not part and parcel of the main question. Maybe, the hon. Minister has an answer. 

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, yes, this Government is inclusive and there are special people who have benefited from the empowerment fund and various products in the  CEEC, and the Ministry of Youth Sport and Art, or through the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), or the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development mentioned that the funds would be increased and so would be the beneficiaries. The people of Chitambo are eagerly waiting for him as he promised that he would go back to Chitambo and give more beneficiaries because he only gave ninety-six beneficiaries in the whole of Chitambo.

Madam Speaker, now that the hon. Minister has said that the ministry will increase the allocations, may we know how much money will be allocated and when the increment will be done? We need facts.

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, I said that we are in talks with the private sector so it can come on board and fill up the gap, because the Government is only giving out K400 million. However, we have a huge demand for the empowerment fund. So, I cannot give the timeframe for when the ministry will be able to secure the partnership through a private sector arrangement.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi): Madam Speaker, I would like to state that this initiative is benefiting many lives especially that it being done at the lowest level. Therefore, what is the ministry doing to ring-fence these small monies against abuse so that it does not become business as usual? When the ministry gave out this money, was there a component to support the marketeers, so that we ring-fence these monies against any form of abuse?

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, this time we have introduced capacity building and we would like anyone who is going to have access to the empowerment fund to undergo some skills training. People need to know how they will have to run the small businesses. Otherwise, we risk losing those funds. So, if people do not undergo the skills development training, then they will have no access to the empowerment fund.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mrs Sabao (Chikankata): Madam Speaker, allow me to welcome back my former teacher, Hon. Kalimi to the House.

Madam Speaker, trade is the engine of development. The goal of the New Dawn Government creating this ministry was to change the lives of people. Therefore, have those small loans changed the lives of people economically? If yes, how?

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, obviously, the intention of the Government is to change the lives of our people. We have heard on a number of platforms beneficiaries testifying what the empowerment funds have done in their lives and that their businesses have improved.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mrs Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Speaker, every time the hon. Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development is giving answers, he refers to the people of Lundazi and they get anxious that, indeed, their friends are receiving the funds. This is the third time he has done that and I am sure that the Hansard has that on record. In his responses, he always says, “even Lundazi.” When is the ministry going to finish giving the empowerment funds to the people in Mbabala? Further, when is the ministry going to give our people in Lundazi the loans because these marketeer loans or boosters are supposed to assist everyone?

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, it is true, I give examples of Lundazi because I know that there are people who have benefited from the funds in Lundazi and Chama.  However, we will increase the number of beneficiaries and, this time, we will look at the constituencies or districts where the number of beneficiaries is low. That is where we will go and increase the numbers.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Simuzingili (Gwembe): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for such an impressive programme. Our people are extremely happy. However, what is the recovery rate since those are loans and the ministry must create a pool as a revolving fund? What is the recovery rate of the market booster loans?

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, in 2022, the recovery rate was quite good, but it dropped a bit at the end 2023. That is why I said that, if anyone wants to have access to the empowerment fund, we must be clear and understand that that person can run a business and will be able to pay back. So, the recovery rate right now is not very impressive.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, thank you so much for allowing the people of Mbabala to have a second bite at the cherry.

Madam Speaker, my additional question is on targeting to try to balance the situation. We have wards in our constituencies. Is the ministry considering working with our constituency offices to try and improve the targeting of beneficiaries? For example, taking the Busulu loan or Marketeer Booster Loans to constituency offices to help with targeting so that we can register all our marketeers in the various markets like Mbabala, Muyobesha, Tambo, Mapanza, Simaubi and Macha so that it becomes easier to balance. So, if a constituency is given K100,000, with the K1,000 the ministry is giving, we would then register the marketeers and ensure that they are given. Then everybody in the entire constituency, at least, would get something. Is the hon. Minister considering such a measure, which is going to balance the situation to help the marketeers?

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, the ministry has guidelines for such funds.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mubanga: We have co-operative and entrepreneurship officers in each district. I think, it is a fair request that hon. Members of Parliament work with our staff in the constituencies so that we work as a team. We would be able to administer together.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr C. Chibuye (Mkushi North): Madam Speaker, let me join other hon. Members in welcoming back Hon. Amb. Kalimi, to the House.

Madam Speaker, in his responses, the hon. Minister told us that he is thinking of increasing the marketeer booster loans and other empowerment funds that are given to the people out there in districts that have low numbers. However, there are certain areas, I believe, even in Mbabala, where not all those who applied received the loans. How soon is the hon. Minister considering funding those who remained because on the list, some received and others did not? So, how soon is he considering funding or financing such marketeers in various districts in Zambia?

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, I would like to say that not everyone who applies for the empowerment fund must receive it. We need to look at the applications. There are conditions to follow for one to have access to the empowerment fund. I am not saying we are not giving out the funds, rather, we give to those who have qualified and have met the necessary conditions.  Those are loans and we do not give them out just like that. We give out the marketeer booster loan which has no interest for six months and other loans. Loans have conditions and we follow them. So, some people will fall off, and others will qualify.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you.

I had indicated that the hon. Member for Mkushi North was the last one.

Hon. Member for Pemba, sorry, we are making progress.

_______

MOTION

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON NATIONAL SECURITY AND FOREIGN AFFAIRS

Brig-Gen. Sitwala (Kaoma Central): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Affairs on the State of Infrastructure at Borders and Ports of Entry into the Country, for the Third Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on 12^th June, 2024. 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Ms S. Mwamba (Kasama Central): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Brig-Gen. Sitwala: Madam Speaker, in accordance with Order No.209 (k) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024, your Committee undertook a study on the state of infrastructure at borders and ports of entry into the country.

Madam, during the study, your Committee interacted with several stakeholders who tendered both written and oral submissions before it. Allow me now to highlight a few of your Committee’s findings on the premise that hon. Members of this august House have had the opportunity to read the report.

Madam Speaker, the first issue that I will address is the state and condition or border infrastructure in the country. This august House may wish to know that many border posts in the country have very poor infrastructure and inadequate offices for the various border agencies operating there. In addition, is the poor state of housing units for staff working for various border agencies. Where housing units are available, they are in a deplorable state, a situation, which has led to staff having to commute long distances every day for work. This makes the effective operation of the border posts very difficult.

Madam Speaker, in view of this challenge, your Committee strongly recommends that the Government constructs modern infrastructure at all gazetted border posts in the country. There is also a need to construct adequate bathroom facilities at all border posts, with immediate priority given to the busy posts such as Kasumbalesa and Nakonde, in order to meet the growing demand for such facilities. Your Committee further recommends that the Government should construct adequate and appropriate decent staff housing units for border agency staff.

Madam Speaker, the Border Management and Trade Facilitation Act. No. 12 of 2018 only provides for the implementation of one-stop-border posts without providing for the existence and operation of other types of border posts. While your Committee appreciates the implementation of one-stop-border posts, it observed that some border posts are not operating as such. Your Committee is greatly concerned that this is one of the reasons most of the border posts and ports of entry, have lagged behind in terms of infrastructure development. In this regard, your Committee urges the Government to consider upgrading all the border posts in the country into one-stop border posts.

Madam Speaker, your Committee had a chance to visit a number of border posts in order to appreciate some of the issues that had been presented by stakeholders. During its tour of Kasumbalesa Border Post, your Committee was pleased to learn that the border post was given the responsibility of operating a one-year border facilitation unit by the Government. Your Committee took note of the progressive infrastructure development at the border post, which is attributed to that special initiative. Your Committee is of the view that the Government should deliberately consider extending the period of that initiative at the Kasumbalesa Border Post and roll it out to other border posts in the country. It is the view of your Committee that the border facilitation unit can contribute to the development of infrastructure at the border post.

Madam Speaker, your Committee had an opportunity to undertake a foreign tour to the Republic of Namibia, and an issue that stood out for your Committee during the tour is that the ministry of works and transport in that country is responsible for all the public infrastructure, including infrastructure at borders and ports of entry.

Madam Speaker, Gobabis Border Post, for example, is a one-stop border post linking Namibia and the Republic of Botswana. Your Committee was pleased to learn that cargo trucks at the border post are cleared within the shortest possible time. The House may also wish to note that the truck scanner at the border post is modern and operates on a large scale. Your Committee urges the Zambian Government to share best practices with the Namibian Government and other governments. It would be worthwhile for the country to consult widely on the best modalities for establishing and operating modern and efficient one-stop border posts. That will contribute to efficiency and effective trade facilitation. It will also contribute to immigration monitoring at the borders. Your Committee is of the view that the Zambian Government should also ensure that all the public infrastructure, including infrastructure at border posts and ports of entry, is the responsibility of the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development.

Madam Speaker, I wish to appeal to the Executive to start implementing the recommendations contained in your Committee’s report for the effective management of borders and ports of entry. Let me also appeal to all hon. Members of this august House to support the report.

In conclusion, Madam Speaker, I wish to thank all the stakeholders who appeared before your Committee and tendered written and oral submissions. I also wish to thank you and the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the guidance and support rendered to your Committee throughout the session.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Ms S. Mwamba: Now, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Affairs on the State of Infrastructure at Borders and Ports of Entry into the Country, for the Third Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on Wednesday, 12^th June, 2024.

Madam Speaker, in seconding the Motion, allow me to make a few comments. There is limited land for infrastructure development at borders and ports of entry as most of the land is private, encroached or owned by traditional leadership. That situation is hindering the expansion of border facilities in the country. Certain areas are so encroached and the matters are actually in court, currently.

Madam Speaker, I wish to urge the Government to consider acquiring between 10 ha to 20 ha of land around the border infrastructure so that enough land may be ring-fenced for future extensions of borders and ports. Such land should actually be secured with appropriate certificates of title, failure to which, it will still be a very big problem.

Madam Speaker, public-private partnerships (PPPs) are the way to go, yet again, when it comes to their consideration in terms of border infrastructure and ports of entry, there are lengthy negotiations on the agreements. It is taking too long to reach financial closure on the agreements with the private sector. Hence, that is hindering the development of infrastructure at the border posts and ports of entry. The Government should consider instituting pragmatic engagements, which can lead to closures within the shortest possible time in order for the development of infrastructure at borders and ports of entry to begin almost immediately. An example that can be cited in a PPP agreement is the Kasumbalesa Border Post, and that seemed to work well.

Madam Speaker, having traversed the country and been to various border posts, it was noted that there was a low number of officers for the border agencies. Most of the border posts have low numbers of staff, especially the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) as well as the Immigration Department. The low number of staff is contributing to the ineffective operations and clearance of persons as well as goods at the borders. Further, border guards have been deployed at most of the borders and ports of entry, but have not been given kits in order to operate effectively. Hence, the Government should recruit more officers under the various border agencies that I mentioned earlier; the Immigration Department and the ZRA, and should further expedite the process of equipping border guards with the required equipment. This is because, in certain areas, some of the border area lands stretch out as far as 300 km with no man in that area. Equipment such as guns, possibly dogs, and drones would really help the situation.

Madam Speaker, there is a lack of electricity, especially at Kamapanda Border Post, which is in the North-Western Province. Not having electricity supplied to that border post has actually caused operations to not work effectively. Most of the border posts in the country are not backed up by any alternative electricity sources. Hence, during the load management period we are experiencing in the country, their operations have been negatively affected. The Government should look into installing alternative energy sources, such as solar power, especially at Kamapanda Border Post, which does not even have an actual supply source at the moment. Looking at most of the other border facilities, it is essential that all border posts and ports of entry have alternative power supply sources to allow for longer operational hours.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, allow me to support the adoption of this report. I thank your Committee for doing a very good job in coming up with a report that is clear and for urging the Government to move in the direction of development, which is for the benefit of the Zambian people. I also thank Hon. Brig-Gen. Sitwala for moving this Motion and Hon. Sibongile Mwamba for seconding it.

Madam Speaker, this report is about infrastructure in border areas, and it is report is clear. We have bad infrastructure in our border areas. This is why most of the people who work in those areas live far from their workplaces. I can give an example of an immigration officer who works in Kazungula but lives in Livingstone, which is 60 km away. That is very far. If there was decent accommodation in Kazungula, officers would not need to live in Livingstone. They would stay in Kazungula. However, because of poor infrastructure, we have these problems in our border areas. When your Committee urges the Government to construct proper infrastructure, this should be supported by everyone.

Madam Speaker, the problem that the Government has is that the national purse held by the good hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is limited. It is very small. So, priorities are competing so bad that the Government is unable to construct decent infrastructure in border areas. However, what would be worrying is if, for example, one day you woke up to the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC) saying that K61 billion had been stolen from the country in three months, yet we have these problems. That is at the back of just US$2.8 billion in 2023. You are in big trouble if you cannot control a thieving population led by a thieving Government. What you have to do as the Government is to control –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

The words ‘thieving’ or ‘stealing’ are not parliamentary. Do you also have evidence of what you are talking about? You motioned some big figures. We need evidence so that we are convinced that those are correct figures and the people of Zambia need to know about those figures. Do you have evidence so that you can lay it on the Table?

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, you would be shocked if you heard that –

Mr Nkandu: It is you who would get shocked.

Mr Kafwaya: One hon. Minister is saying that it is me who will be shocked. Of course, if the News Diggers newspaper reports that, I will be shocked because I do not expect K61 billion to be stolen in three months.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, I had asked a very simple question. Do you have evidence? If you do not have any evidence to lay on the Table, you might as well skip that topic and bring it back when you have it so that we can move at the same pace.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, since I do not have the News Diggers newspaper and the FIC Report, I will skip that and talk about Namibia. The Chairperson said that your Committee went for benchmarking in Namibia where it found a ministry, which is called the Ministry of Works and Transport that is responsible for all public infrastructures.

Madam Speaker, we used to have this model some years back. We used to have a ministry called the Ministry of Works and Supply. It used to be responsible for all Government infrastructure including this Chamber. Today, all infrastructure is under the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. This is a ...

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Kafwaya: ... a ministry which must deal with dwindling revenue, national expenditure, debt restructuring in spite of the accumulation of further debt, budget realignment, and non-contraction. How do we expect a ministry that is responsible for paying all civil servants or public workers to also –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, I thought we have the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development ...

Mr Kafwaya: It is not responsible –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: ... and the Ministry of Finance and National Planning.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development is not responsible for Government infrastructure. That one is responsible for construction, but there are no constructions anymore these days.

Mr Nkandu: Question!

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I actually feel sorry for the good hon. Minister who has been put under immense pressure. If I were to ask him what the condition of the new Government Complex is, he would not know. He has never visited it because he is engrossed in debt contraction and debt restructuring.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, these are important issues. Frankly speaking, I think that the Government needs to take care and appropriate these responsibilities properly. As the Chairperson alluded to, there is a need to ensure that a ministry looks at all infrastructures that belong to the people so that it tells the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning as he is preparing his financials that this is the fixed asset figure. Even when the Auditor-General goes to audit, and looks at the buildings he will say that the one who is at fault is the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. What type of unfairness is that? Somebody else should be able to do this job so that when the Auditor General – Right now, regardless of who holds the position of the Auditor-General, when he audits, there will be somebody who will answer and say, “this is the plan which we have for the maintenance of this public infrastructure.” Today, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning cannot look after public infrastructure because this cannot be a priority in the face of drought, realignment of the Budget, and all these matters.

 Madam Speaker, I support the adoption of this report by indicating that the Government must take care to listen to the wisdom of your Committee and be able to implement these recommendations because they are recommendations in development.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sialubalo (Sinazongwe): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving the people of Sinazongwe an opportunity to add one or two words to the debate on this very important report under your stewardship.

Madam Speaker, for the benefit of those who do not know exactly what happens in border posts or entry points, it is not just a matter of movement. There is a component of revenue raised from those areas such as entry visas under the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security, entry fees or toll fees under the Ministry of Transport and Communications as it was previously called, customs duty under the Ministry of Finance and National Planning and traffic fines under the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security. So, it is a hive of activities in terms of revenue collection, which is very important for the nation.

Madam Speaker, it is surprising that since 1964, revenues have been collected, successive Governments have come and gone, and we still talk of dilapidated or no infrastructure in our border areas. This is a source of concern. It is like not caring for the pot that you are served a meal with. So, as a nation, we need to be very careful and care for the entry points. Take a look at what is happening in Kipushi, on the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) side. It is well organised. When we come to the Zambian side, it is like it is a war-torn nation. There is no border to talk about. I do not know how hon. Members travel on the road from Solwezi to Kipushi because it is something else. When one goes to the border, by the time one is coming back, one is sick. There is literally no road to talk about.

Madam Speaker, these are the areas that we, as a nation, need to pay attention to. I am glad that the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development did hint that the road will be worked. In Ndola, there is Sakania Border Post.  In the DRC, everything is perfect. On the Zambian side, it is a sorry sight, but revenue is being collected. At Kasumbalesa Border Post, the immigration houses are a sorry sight.

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for having allowed your Committee to travel, so that the Government can see those areas and also consider giving a facelift to areas where these revenues are being collected. Otherwise those areas are a sorry sight if you do travel. For example, in Jimbe, resources are being collected by the Government coffers, but what is happening on the ground is totally different.

Madam Speaker, another issue that should have been included in this very important report that was generated by your Committee is the attitude of the workers. A good infrastructure was constructed in Kasumbalesa through public-private partnership (PPP) as your Committee alluded to. From the time the Government took over, the infrastructure is dilapidating. So, there is no extra care. There is a need for a change of mindset by the workers manning border posts. The workers need to know that when the Government builds new infrastructure, extra care should be given to that new buildings. This is not happening. Maybe, what the Ministry of Finance and National Planning should do is to put aside a certain percentage of money to go towards the renovation of border posts annually. Otherwise, your Committee’s report is spot on. It is perfect. It is just these concerns that I thought the people of Sinazongwe should bring to the attention of the Government so that it can pay back to areas where resources or revenues come from. Border posts need to be beautified to make the working environment conducive for the workers.

With these few remarks, Madam Speaker, I support the report.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker, let me join my colleagues in welcoming back Hon. Amb. Kalimi to the House and congratulating our new Minister of Justice, Hon. Kasune.

Madam Speaker, from the outset, let me indicate that I support this report. I have always thought that Parliament is composed of think tanks who help to put minds together to foster development and contribute to the well-being of this country. I also thought that it is there to provide the necessary checks and balances to see to it that the Executive is aligned and moves forward but, sometimes, we find that it is mere politicking.

Madam Speaker, I would like to say that I have read this report, which looks at cardinal issues like the territorial integrity of this country. The reports also looks at the border posts where we need infrastructure development to ensure that illegal immigrants, human trafficking and illicit financial flows are curbed because if you have porous borders then those vices cannot be mitigated by the Government. Domestic resource mobilisation through the inflows of commodities, imports and exports, and the much-needed tax revenues cannot be collected if we have porous border posts.

So, Madam Speaker, that is why it is important to realign and look at what the report has highlighted. The report highlighted how the National Infrastructure Policy can be enhanced to ensure that some of the infrastructure that the Government has constructed or built for our colleagues from either the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) or the Immigration Department provide a conducive work environment for them to carry out their job effectively. We also need to come up with a robust policy on maintenance because most of the time, the Government constructs infrastructure, be it roads or bridges at a high cost, but there is no policy on maintenance to adequately mitigate and ensure that when structures are damaged we quickly maintain them so that they remain in a good state.

Madam Speaker, the other issue I want to talk about is the need to protect land. We have challenges where there is encroachment in some areas. So, the Government needs to ensure that these pieces of land where we have important infrastructures are protected.

Madam Speaker, another challenge is with regard to construction. Most of my colleagues talked about the public-private partnership (PPP), which takes too long to reach financial closure to ensure that certain infrastructure is built through the PPP models, which is very much needed for our country.

Madam Speaker, let me proceed to the need to have adequate space. The infrastructures at some of these border posts, where our colleagues operate from, leave much to be desired. For us to mitigate and curb many vices such as human trafficking, we need to have adequate infrastructure in border posts, which brings in a lot of revenue to our country.

Madam Speaker, I tend to agree with most of my colleagues on the challenges that have been highlighted in the report especially the issue of mismatch in priority border development between countries. Zambia would want to develop, but it may not be a priority on the other side of the border. This negates infrastructure development. So, we need to find a mechanism that to ensure that some of the border posts with our neighbouring countries are worked on to enhance our operations and revenue mobilisation.

Madam Speaker, it is not only the revenue aspect, but also our porous border posts that are of concern because those become en-route for people who are not supposed to come through the country such as illegal immigrants. So, it is important that we look at a robust system and a roadmap. Yes, we know that when it comes to infrastructure development there is the issue of tight fiscal space in terms of some of these infrastructure developments, but we need to look at priority areas in terms of development and protecting our territorial integrity to ensure that our people are safe.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I wish to state that your Committee has done a tremendous job. It went benchmarking, visited some of the border posts, and brought in many important aspects which we need to interrogate, and see to it that according to the order of priority, we push through other avenues. This is to ensure that we propel the issue of infrastructure development in border areas where our colleagues operate from and where our much-needed revenue comes from. That way, the country can continue to curb many vices that I have indicated such as illicit financial flows, which are emanated from tax evasion when the borders are too porous.

 Madam Speaker with those remarks, I wish to indicate that I support the report.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, on behalf of the good people of Kabwata, I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Floor of the House.

Madam Speaker, I want to say that we, the people of Kabwata, support the report that is before this House. We want to indicate that this report actually speaks to the many challenges being faced in border areas especially Kasumbalesa, where I have been, Chirundu, Nakonde and other places. If one looked at the state of the infrastructure today, in our border towns, one would even ask where all these issues started. What kind of leadership did we have because most of our infrastructure was constructed many years ago, but what could have gone wrong for us to fail to maintain some of it? Chirundu, Nakonde and Kasumbalesa, are border towns where huge sums of money that go to the Central Government are collected. However, if we look at the state of infrastructure which is there, it is worrying. What could have gone wrong? Was it because of the lack of leadership in those days? Could it have been that the leadership that was there never took an interest in looking at some of this infrastructure? Whenever we are choosing leaders, we really need to understand that the leaders that we put in place will either take us backward or forward.

Madam Speaker, today, the state of some of these properties in our border towns can actually be improved.

Mr Kapyanga: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to raise a point of order.

Madam Speaker, the debate on the Floor of the House is very clear. Further, the report is very clear and the Executive is being urged to construct border infrastructure. This is the present discussion. However, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwata has drastically veered off from what is being discussed on the Floor of the House. He has gone on rampage politicking and questioning the past leadership even when he knows that the party that he belongs to has been in power for three years.

Madam Speaker, it is not helpful right now to discuss the past when he has also been in the past and nothing in terms of infrastructure is happening. Is he in order, therefore, to contradict Order No. 71, which urges us to stick to what is being discussed objectively?

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, when you were raising that point of order, you even gave a suggestion. So, the Presiding Officer has nothing to add.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: However, maybe, let me just guide the House to stick to the report. The report is straight forward and very simple. Let us make progress.

Mr Tayengwa: Madam Speaker, I am actually giving out this information because of the state of the infrastructure that we have. It is not about politicking. We all want to see the Government coming up with solutions. We have found ourselves in this state of affairs, where most of the infrastructure in border towns is not something to talk about, because of the leadership that we had.

Madam Speaker, allow me to mention that if today one decides to plant the seed of corruption, such an individual is actually denying the Zambian people from having the best infrastructure. We saw how huge amounts of money were being exchanged. One individual was found with US$24 million. If that money was actually – 

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Kabwata, you are now bringing in issues that will need evidence. Do you have evidence for the US$24 million that you have mentioned? Let us try to speak to the report. If you have other things that you want to add, that are in line with the report, please, provide evidence so that we can move at the same pace. You may continue with that guidance.

Mr Tayengwa: Madam Speaker, thank you for the guidance.

Madam Speaker, some infrastructure is dilapidated because of negligence.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tayengwa: Madam Speaker, our colleagues were in the Government for ten years, but never saw any infrastructure maintained.  Today, our men and women –

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo rose.

 Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

We are still debating the report. So those who have not yet debated –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker:  I can see the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu indicating. Please, prepare your points. Otherwise, hon. Ministers are going to respond to some of the issues that are being brought up on the Floor of the House, but my guidance is that, please, let us stick to the report.

Mr Tayengwa: Madam Speaker, today, our officers at the border towns such as the immigration officers, customs officials, and even the border guards that were employed, are struggling because they are not motivated. When we look at the accommodation, where they are staying, it is a sorry sight, just like the other debater said. Someone has to travel from Kazungula to Livingstone to get better accommodation. This is the reason I am saying that some of these issues should have been attended to way back, but because of the lack of leaders who could actually work on some of these issues, we are now faced with serious challenges of infrastructure that is actually falling apart in most of the border towns.

Madam Speaker, the issue of land encroachment in our border areas is something that we need to bring to the attention of the Executive. I strongly believe that the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources, through the Surveyor General, needs to go on the ground and ensure that title deeds are given to people owning property. Most people who own properties in Kasumbalesa do not have title deeds and even in other border towns such as Nakonde, some of the properties are not titled.

 Madam Speaker, it is, for this reason that I am emphasising that we need to ensure that the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources moves on-site and ensures that people who have parcels of land get title deeds.

Madam Speaker, when you have a demotivated workforce, you do not expect to collect enough revenue and border guards to work effectively. In other countries, for example, South Africa and Botswana, border guards are equipped with the latest technologies. Our colleagues use drones when patrolling. However, what about here in Zambia? This is the reason the Ministry of Finance and National Planning has to ensure that border areas are given enough money.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, allow me to talk about the issue of transportation for immigration officers working in the border areas. In terms of transportation, immigration officers are barely surviving. At the custom’s rapid response officers in Chirundu, you will find only two vehicles that the officers are using to chase after the smugglers. 

Madam Speaker, I urge the Government to ensure that it disburses funding to border areas and to address the issue of transportation. Let us ensure that our officers who work in our border areas are given the best transportation and infrastructure in terms of housing and warehouses.

Madam Speaker, with these few words, I want to say that I support the report on the Floor.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving me a chance on behalf of the people of Chienge to add to the debate on this very important report on the Floor of the House. On behalf of the good people of Chienge, I support the report.

Madam Speaker, I come from a constituency that has a border, and on the other side, it is so porous. I believe the report is urging the Government to construct proper infrastructure at borders. What I want to urge even this House is that the ball is in our court as hon. Members of Parliament and also the Executive. I say so because we need to increase the budget allocation. We have also heard of a shortage of manpower at borders and infrastructure, which is not supporting a nation, that has been independent for sixty years.

Madam Speaker, as hon. Members, we need to urge the Government to sit with its technocrats to increase the budget for infrastructure at borders. If we look at the infrastructure at Chirundu and Kazungula borders, it is something nobody can be proud of. In Chienge, there is infrastructure, but it is not supporting the security of our nation and the people of Chienge. What I expect from all of us, here in the House, is to agree on the amount of money that should be allocated to infrastructure projects. If the Treasury cannot support infrastructure projects, this Government should look at entering into public-private partnerships (PPP) projects or borrowing, if that can be done, and build infrastructure that will speak to the modern world.

Madam Speaker, when you pass through the Mokambo Border, it is so shameful on our side as Zambians. Even the gates that are there speak poverty. These are the entry ports that speak of who we are as a country. If we have ports of entry that are already speaking of the poverty levels in the country, do we expect to be given a chance to negotiate for some agreements? For example, if we said that we are not going to allow vehicles or trucks that are carrying heavy loads to move on our roads, the other side would not listen to us because, already, our infrastructure shows that we are beneath our colleagues.

Madam Speaker, let me give an example of what is taking place at Mokambo Border. One can see the development that is coming up there and I expect our Government to discuss or agree with the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) to make a one-stop border post like has been done at the other borders. This is where the real money is, but when we look at the roads there, they are speaking something different. 

Madam Speaker, the other thing that we should improve is the security system at the border posts. When we look at the borders that we have in Zambia – In Bemba we say, muletanfya mumbwe nenseko, meaning we are taking things like it is business as usual. Our colleagues are concerned about their borders. If we cannot put up proper security at the borders for the sake of the nation, then I think we have a problem.

Madam Speaker, my appeal to the Executive and this House is that we come up with a budget that will accommodate the building of infrastructure at our border posts, which will speak to who we are that, indeed, we have minerals in this country. It is a sad thing looking at most of the border posts that we talking about. I hope and pray that we will not just end at supporting the report, but that when the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development goes to sit with his technocrats, he will bring the kind of budget that we are going to be proud to look at. It should not just be about the road construction, but also about enhancing the security system at the borders which, are porous, and have infrastructure that leaves nothing to talk about.

Madam Speaker, with these few words, on behalf of the people of Chienge, I support the report.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chinkuli (Kanyama): Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity that you have given the father of the so-called – I will not complete that – …

Laughter

Mr Chinkuli: … to add a voice to the debate that is on the Floor of the House.

Madam Speaker, indeed, it is very important for the Government to look into this matter seriously. Infrastructure at border areas or entry points is very cardinal. I have experience having worked at various borders. Many a time, we want to throw the blame on the officers who work under poor conditions, but little do we look at the person who is supposed to provide a service.

Madam Speaker, if in this House, we were not provided with these gadgets; the microphones, I do not think we would have been speaking. It would have been difficult for us to speak because we would have been stretching our voices just to be heard. Therefore, as I said, the Government needs to ensure it enhances infrastructure development at the borders and ports of entry.

Madam Speaker, I also want to talk about the effects of not attending to certain issues. Borders are entry points through which a number of products or substances pass through. We hear of certain substances, which when you look around in the country, you cannot find any trace or any factories where such are manufactured. I am talking about substances such as cocaine and other drugs. Where do they come from?  Where do they pass through? They pass through the border posts. However, with the porousness that is there currently at the borders, as my hon. Colleagues have put it, such drugs will simply come in, and certain places such as my constituency are a target for such substances to be traded. Everyone knows that that is what takes place there. As a result, you will realise that our children and everyone’s grandchildren are being referred to as junkies. Meanwhile, we do not look at what is causing such children to be called the junkies. I am labelled as the father of junkies. Eventually, I will be called the grandfather of the junkies. They are my children. That is why I am here to propagate for them. If we enhance security at border facilities and entry points, believe you me, the issue of drugs that cause our children to be called names that are not human, will be a thing of the past.

Madam Speaker, I want to talk about what happened in Livingston. The Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) customs office in Livingstone, had an inland port where everything was taking place. However, because of the infrastructure that has been improved in Kazungula, it has moved the component of customs, which looks at the importation and exportation of goods, to the border. The Government knows that it is at the border where everything starts and ends. So, why not emulate the same in other provinces or areas? So, I want to emphasise that the Government should implement what the Committee has established, by giving the officers the necessary tools that will enable them to enhance their operations. By so doing, we, as parliamentarians, will be able to hold them accountable. They will have nothing to point at as being the cause for them not to block products that would harm our children.

Madam Speaker, previously, there was an issue of tujilijili and there was a law that banned them. However, this time, they come in different names such as Rambo, using names that can attract people, or titles that show some kind of power.  Little do we realise that those same names are harmful to our children, including elderly people. You will find that when someone consumes it, within two minutes –

Madam First Deputy Speaker:  Hon. Member for Kanyama, can you please, focus on the state of infrastructure at the borders and ports of entry rather than bringing in the issue of alcohol and our children.

You may continue.

Mr Chinkuli: Madam Speaker, I was just looking at the effects. I did not want to talk about what everyone else had discussed. Maybe, from that point, the Government can speed up the process of giving us whatever we are fighting for here, in this House. Thank you for your guidance, and I will abide by that.

Madam Speaker, the emphasis is on the need of ensuring that the Government gives us the infrastructure that is needed at the borders to help enhance revenue collection and, to some extent, national security. If the borders are left porous as they are, I think, at some point, the country will regret that situation. All I am asking is that there is a component in the Budget which focuses on improving the infrastructure for immigration, customs and any other institution that is stationed at the borders, as recommended by the Committee. In so doing, this country will be a safer place to live in.

Madam Speaker, before I end, I just want to urge my hon. Colleagues to attend the workshop on mental health on Monday, 17^th June, 2024, which will be held at the Amphitheatre.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Thank you so much, Madam Speaker, for allowing me to make a few comments on the debate on the Motion to adopt the report of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Affairs.

Madam Speaker, having gone through the report, one notes that what comes out clearly are the constraints that the Government faces insofar improving infrastructure at the border points is concerned due to limited resources in the national revenue basket. I would also like to urge my hon. Colleagues to note that when we are debating critical matters contained in such thorough reports, we should stick to those matters rather than speculating and pedalling innuendos that cannot be verified on the Floor.

Madam Speaker, infrastructure development at our border posts has been an on-going exercise, and I firmly stand here, on this Floor, to confirm that, indeed, some work has been done, but a lot more needs to be done. I would have liked the hon. Member for Chienge, who debated earlier, and talked about Mokambo Border, to confirm that it used to be like a village. On the other side, of course, we understand the challenges concerning infrastructure, but our officers both in the Immigration Department and the Zambia Police Service who are at border posts have modern accommodation. I think the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security can speak to that. There is also modern infrastructure at border posts and supporting infrastructure for the police service.

Madam Speaker, a lot more work needs to be done in terms of how we manage the barrier between the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) and Zambia. We also have Sakania Border Post, which is very active. The hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security will do well to engage the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning because modern housing has been provided for our officers at that border post. What is needed is additional infrastructure at border facilities because the one that is there currently, is not adequate.

Madam Speaker, regarding Kasumbalesa Border Post, previously, there were only two houses along the border line for our officers from the Immigration Department. Now, there is a full-fledged camp at the border for immigration officers, which is well secured, and this has motivated the officers, in addition to other measures that have been taken.

Madam Speaker, at the border between Zambia and the Republic of Botswana, we have the Kazungula Border Post, which has modern infrastructure. The construction of some housing infrastructure was started at the border post, but due to financial constraints, it has not been completed. To match the facility; A modern bridge between the two countries, has already been completed. I would only urge the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development and the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Affairs to ensure that those housing units are completed so that those who trek between Livingstone and Kazungula can be accommodated near the border.

Madam Speaker, talking about border entry points, even airports are entry points.  Kenneth Kaunda International Airport, is a modern infrastructure. In the past, we never used to have accommodation for our officers there.  However, if you go there today, you will find our immigration officers well dressed in proper uniform attires and well accommodated. For the first time, there is camp a camp for the immigration officers.

Madam Speaker, a lot of work has been done although a lot more work needs to be done. That is how it should be. So, standing here and saying that in the past nothing has been done is not correct information. Let us be factual. Let us speak to the issues as they obtain on the ground. The chairperson of security can attest to some of these submissions that I am making.

Madam Speaker, I have noticed that the report talks about the public-private partnership (PPP) model. Yes, it is workable and, I think, the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security has inherited some of the projects that were undertaken. What needs to be done is to make sure that we assess the projects. Going into a PPP deal is a complex business. The volume of business that is recorded at a particular entry point is what determines how much investment we can attract. Anyone who wants to invest in this infrastructure wants to invest and recoup their input.

Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development and the Ministry of Finance and National Planning should ensure that the PPP deals that we go into are of a win-win situation so that developers do not over exaggerate the value of the infrastructure that they develop. There is a possibility of overvaluing infrastructure and continuing recouping even beyond what they should recoup at the detriment of the nation. So, caution must be put across especially to the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, which is spearheading these ventures.

Madam Speaker, at the end of the day, we have seen the agencies that are at the borders. I think, we have focused more on the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA), which is under the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, and those agencies under the Ministry of Home Affairs and National Security. However, in view of the current trends, there is a need to have the presence of agencies under the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, the Ministry of Agriculture, and the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock because of the movement of livestock. So, the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development needs to have a multi-sectoral approach to ensure that no one is left behind.  Whilst immigration and ZRA officers are accommodated, officers from ministries such as the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock are left out and that poses a challenge. So, let us have a multi-sectoral approach in terms of how we develop entry points. Like I said, a lot of work has been done, but a lot more work needs to be done. This is the correct position insofar as the infrastructure at our entry points is concerned.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The last hon. Member to debate on this topic is the hon. Member for Solwezi East. Tomorrow, hon. Ministers will respond and then we will close the debate.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, I would like to add one or two words to the debate on the report which I support.

Madam Speaker, on public-private partnerships (PPP), indeed, I conquer with the report. The people of Solwezi East where Kipushi Border is, need to see the PPP work so that there is development. That border post has high economic potential and the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning can actually recoup more money. We can even exceed the revenues that are collected at Kasumbalesa Border Post because most of the activities happen in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) which is closer to Kipushi Border than Kasumbalesa. So, I agree with the PPP deal and the hon. Minister should make sure that the long processes are cut short so that we see development in that area.

Madam Speaker, let me talk about infrastructure. If you go to Mushindamo, you will see that the infrastructure at Kipushi Border, is nothing to point at. When you cross to the other side of the border, there is a tarmac road. Our friends have good infrastructure, but on the Zambian side, I wonder why we do not have such good infrastructure. What have we been doing the past sixty years since Independence?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

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The House adjourned at 1857 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 14^th June, 2024.

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