DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FIRST SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEBMLY

Wednesday, 29th February, 2012

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_____________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

PROSPECTING MINERALS IN SOLWEZI

134. Mr Taima (Solwezi East) asked the Minister of Mines and Natural Resources:

    (a)    whether there were any business entities prospecting for minerals in Solwezi East Parliamentary Constituency, especially in the area between Kipushi Town in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and Solwezi Town in Zambia and, if so, who the prospective investors were; and

(b)    whether there had been any mineral deposits found in the area at (a) above.

The Deputy Minister of Mines and Natural Resources (Mr I. Banda): Mr Speaker, there are four companies prospecting for minerals in the area between Kipushi and Solwezi and these are:

(i)    First Quantum Minerals Zambia Limited;

(ii)     Providence Resources Zambia Limited;

(iii)    Phelps Dodge Mining Zambia Limited; and 

(iv)    China Mining Group Corporation Limited.

Mr Speaker, none of the above mentioned companies has reported the discovery of mineral deposits in the area stipulated under their prospecting licences.

   I thank you, Sir.

Mr Taima: Mr Speaker, it is common knowledge that the presence of minerals in Solwezi Central, the southern part of Solwezi and the nearby places is as a result of a mineral belt which starts from the DRC right into Zambia. Solwezi East is the first constituency you find before you get into Solwezi proper. I do not understand how, to date, we keep hearing about stories of companies prospecting. I would like to learn from the hon. Minister how long these companies have been prospecting, knowing that one company can only prospect for a given period, and if it fails to find anything, another company must be given an opportunity to do the same.

The Minister of Mines and Natural Resources (Mr Simuusa): Mr Speaker, in response to that question, I wish to let the hon. Member know that when we talk about belts in the way mineralisation occurs, there are what we call barren gaps. Therefore, even when there is a belt, in certain areas, there is a barren gap where there are no minerals. For example, between Chingola and Kitwe which is one belt, there are certain barren gaps. Even in Solwezi, in the area which the hon. Member is talking about, it is possible that there are barren gaps. It only takes exploration to find out whether there are mineral deposits in an area.  

For his interest, let me give him a list of the minerals that these companies are looking for. First Quantum Minerals Zambia Limited is exploring for copper, cobalt and gold. Providence Resources Zambia Limited is exploring for copper, cobalt, zinc, silver, nickel, gold and limestone. Phelps Dodge Mining Zambia Limited is exploring for copper, zinc, silver, gold and nickel. China Mining Group Corporation Limited is exploring for copper, cobalt, silver, zinc, nickel, gold, tantalum, uranium, lead and zinc.

I am sure Hon. Taima is aware that a prospecting licence, as per the current laws, allows a company to conduct exploration activities for upto seven years. Firstly, a two-year licence is given and after that, the licence can be renewed on condition that half of the land is given up. 

Let me give him the exact dates when the companies that are prospecting in Solwezi got their licences. First Quantum Minerals Zambia Limited was issued with a licence in 2010, Providence Resources Zambia Limited on 23rd March, 2011, Phelps Dodge Mining Zambia Limited on 25th July, 2005 and China Mining Group Corporation Limited on 4th May, 2010. Therefore, the majority of these companies are still in their first two-year period. At the end of the two years, we will know whether they have found something which they can mine. We shall also know if the companies will be willing to proceed into mining.

I thank you, Sir.

2010/2011 FARMING SEASON

135. Mr Mushanga (Bwacha) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock:

(a)    how much money was spent on the following activities during the 2010/2011 Farming Season countrywide:

(i)    procurement of fertiliser under the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP);

(ii)    purchase of maize from farmers;

(iii)    transportation of maize to safe storage; and

(iv)    storage of maize;

(b)    how many tonnes of maize were produced; and

(c)    what the cost, on average, of producing a 50 kg bag of maize was.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr N. Banda): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Government spent the following amounts of money during the 2010/2011 Farming Season countrywide: 

(i)    a total of K634,095,132,994.80 was spent on the procurement and distribution of 178,000 metric tonnes of fertiliser for the FISP;

(ii)    for the purchase of maize from farmers, K2,276,336,270,000 was spent to purchase 1,751,028 metric tonnes of maize;

(iii)    the total amount spent on transporting the maize to safe storage facilities was K207.87 billion; and

(iv)    K36,548,861,082 was spent on the storage of maize which included warehousing management, fumigation and private rental charges.

With regard to part (b) of the question, Mr Speaker, 3,020,380 metric tonnes of maize were produced during the 2010/2011 Farming Season. 

With regard to part (c) of the question, Mr Speaker, there is no uniform cost for producing a 50 kg bag of maize as it varies from district to district and from farmer to farmer countrywide. It also varies depending on productivity. As the yield per hectare increases, the cost of production per hectare decreases. The small-scale farmers’ productivity in Zambia has been increasing from an average of two tonnes per hectare to approximately three tonnes per hectare. With these yields, the national average cost of production is ranging between K40,000 and K44,000 per 50 kg bag of maize.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutale (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, is it economical to grow maize at the price ranging between K40,000 and K44,000 per 50 kg bag of maize? If not, what is the Government doing to make it economically viable? Did the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock manage to purchase all the maize from the farmers during the period in question?

The Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Chenda): Mr Speaker, as of today, the ministry still owes the farmers K116 billion. That money has now been released by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. By next week, all the farmers will have been paid. The total amount which was due to the farmers was K2.2 trillion.

 The average cost of production for a 50 kg bag of maize obviously varies between K40,000 to K44,000 per bag. For the farmers who grow maize, this is economical because the Government is buying the maize at K65,000 per 50 kg bag of maize.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Zimba (Kapiri Mposhi): Mr Speaker, it is on record that since Zambia got its independence in 1964, this is the first time that some farmers have been paid in the month of February and, probably, some will be paid in March. The farmers in Kapiri Mposhi and elsewhere have suffered treble losses. One of the losses is that by the time they receive the money, it is valueless. Secondly, they have not planted any crop for the 2012/2013 Farming Season because they have no money in their pockets. Thirdly, they will never be compensated. With the foregoing, what measures has the Government put in place so that whatever happened previously does not occur again this season?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, regrettably there has been this long delay in paying farmers, but I think it should be understood that the harvest for the 2010/2011 Farming Season is unprecedented. The maize that was bought is 1.7 million metric tonnes. That is a huge strain on the Central Treasury. However, the reason the farmers were not paid is that money was not paid well in advance to the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) to enable it to pay the farmers on time. The ministry is making plans now to ensure farmers are paid soon after the delivery of the maize.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kalaba (Bahati): Mr Speaker, at Chisembe in Bahati Constituency, the maize that was procured by the Government then had gone to waste even after being paid for. Does the ministry have any plans, this year, to ensure that the maize that has been purchased does not go to waste as was used to happen in the past?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, again, it is regrettable that the maize that had been harvested by the farmers through hard work and sweat went to waste. I would like to assure the House that we are doing everything possible to ensure that this does not occur this season.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Speaker, at one point, the hon. Minister informed this House that during the marketing season, there were unscrupulous people who generated fake goods received forms and were paid. He further said that this disadvantaged the genuine farmers who have suffered as a result of this mischief. May I know how much progress the ministry in collaboration with the FRA has made in identifying the unscrupulous characters that have been stealing money from the public.

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, the audit team is still in the field. It is expected to come back next week. Once it has made its reports to us, we will make the information available.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out what strategic mechanisms, if any, the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock has put in place to curb misapplication and abuse of inputs in order to ensure that the right beneficiaries get the commodity. If there are any, can we expect an audit of these mechanisms because many farmers, especially in Choma, are complaining that they did not receive their packs.

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, we are in the process of reviewing the whole FISP. It will be premature for me to talk about what measures the Government is putting in place to ensure that such sad developments do not recur. However, I would like to assure the House that we will ensure that we put up sufficient internal control measures to guarantee that the targeted recipients receive the fertiliser and other farming inputs.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.{mospagebreak}

Mr Milambo (Mwembeshi): Mr Speaker, does the hon. Minister agree with me that this programme has, so far, failed?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, there have been some difficulties in the way the FISP has been run, but I would not agree that the programme has failed. There are challenges that we must deal with by refining the process.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulenga: Baume, abo!

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that about six farmer co-operatives in Mapatizya Constituency have not received their basal dressing fertiliser from the Kalomo District Co-operative Marketing Union?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, I am not aware, but I will check with the officers and take the necessary measures to ensure that those that should have received their fertiliser get it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out if the ministry has arrested any people involved in corrupt activities during the procurement of fertiliser under the FISP.

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, some people have been apprehended. However, I am not able to report on the outcome of that process because the police are still carrying out investigations.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muteteka (Chisamba): Mr Speaker, taking into account that the previous administration had successful consecutive bumper harvests and paid the farmers on time, …

Interruptions

Mr Muteteka: … now that the farmers have not been paid to date, who should they blame? Is it the current Government or the previous one?

Laughter

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, I mentioned that of the K2.2 trillion which was due to the farmers, only 5 per cent, which is K116 million, was still outstanding. However, I also mentioned that the money has since been released and that, by next week, all the farmers will have been paid.

Mr Speaker, the quantity of maize that was bought, this year, was unprecedented. From the previous season, only 800,000 metric tonnes were bought. This year, twice as much were bought. Within five months of this Government being in power, it has paid 95 per cent of that bill, and I think that is commendable.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kalima (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, firstly, I would like to congratulate myself on winning the petition against my election this morning.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kalima: It is exciting.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, following the response regarding the fertiliser which has been procured this year, I would like to know whether this is the fertiliser that will be used later in the season or the Government intends to procure some more. Secondly, I would like to know whether the FISP will continue this year.

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! Congratulate her.

Mr Chenda: … I would like to assure the House that …

Interruptions

Mr Chenda: … the FISP is here to stay. We are in the process of …

Interruption

Mr Chenda: Congratulations on winning the election petition.

Laughter

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, we are continuing with the FISP and are in the process of finalising the tender documents which will be publicised in the newspapers. Therefore, the farmers should be geared to do what they do best and that is to grow maize.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chilangwa (Kawambwa): Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock to categorically inform the House that all the challenges and problems associated with agriculture in this country are as a result of the poor planning, haphazard way of doing things and corruption of the people that were voted out of power and, also, that this new Government is putting things in place to ensure that the problems that our farmers have been facing will be a thing of the past and will not recur this coming season.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, I said that there are several challenges being faced in the agriculture sector and we are doing everything possible to ensure that we face these challenges.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has told this House that the producer price of maize is K65,000 per bag and that the cost of production is different. I would like to find out what measures the Government will take to cushion the high-cost producing areas, especially the rural areas where the cost of fertiliser is as high as K250,000 per bag, when others, here in town, are securing it at K50,000 per bag. Will the Government consider cushioning the cost of producing maize for the high-cost producing areas?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, the figures that we have given are those that have been calculated using the market value of fertiliser. This means that those that get fertiliser through the FISP have much higher profit margins. In calculating these figures, we took into account the highest possible cost of fertiliser. Therefore, we have covered the concerns of the hon. Member for Zambezi West.

I thank you, Sir.

FEEDER ROADS AND BRIDGES IN MULOBEZI CONSTITUENCY

136. Mr Sililo (Mulobezi) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    when the Makanga/Luampa Feeder Road via Mangumwi/Machile/Mulobezi would be graded; and 

(b)    when the following bridges in Mulobezi Parliamentary Constituency, which were washed away a long time ago, would be repaired.

(i)    Machile;
(ii)    Saale; and 
(iii)    Kasima

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Dr Mwali): Mr Speaker, the above-mentioned feeder road and bridges are not part of the 2012 Annual Work Plan, but they may be considered, next year, depending on the priorities of the Sesheke District Council.

Sir, as mentioned before, this year, the Road Development Agency (RDA) has provided K96 billion to the Ministry of Local Government, Housing, Early Education and Environmental Protection for such works. K80 billion of this amount is for on-going projects and K16 billion is for new projects.

Mr Speaker, I also wish to mention that, according to our information of three weeks ago, the Machile Bridge was still in good condition.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out when this House will be availed the Annual Work Plan for the RDA as has been the practice in the past so that all hon. Members of Parliament are aware of all the works that will be carried out in their respective constituencies.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, I share the anxiety expressed by the hon. Member of Parliament for Monze Central. In fact, this morning, I was also asking for the work plan from the RDA, but the agency had a slight problem with the computer system. However, we are assured that the Annual Work Plan for 2012 will be out by next week.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether there were any monies that were allocated to the Machile/Luampa/Sesheke Road works and if any feasibility studies have been made to ensure that this road is upgraded as it connects Kasempa through Sesheke to Walvis Bay. As I browse the internet, I see some railway plans. Is the hon. Minsiter going in that direction?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the RDA delegated this responsibility to the local authorities. We await them to prioritise the said road. From there, the RDA will take it up.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, we need further clarification from the Government. In the past, we were told, in this House, that trunk roads are to be rehabilitated by the Central Government through the RDA. May I know why the Government is saying that the trunk road from Sesheke through Kaoma to Kasempa should be prioritised by the Sesheke District Council?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the question by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mulobezi, Mr Sililo, concerns a feeder road. I seek your guidance on when feeder roads became trunk roads.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! I would like to guide the hon. Deputy Minister that this is a supplementary question.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Answer!

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, as long as it remains a feeder road, it will be the responsibility of the local road authority.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mweetwa(Choma Central): Mr Speaker, from the answer that the hon. Deputy Minister has given that the RDA is not yet ready with the 2012 Annual Work Plan because of computer problems, I would like to find out how that ministry, regarding that department, budgeted for this year.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, in case I misled the House, I must apologise. I never said that the 2012 Annual Work Plan was not ready. What is not ready is the document which can be circulated.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr M. H. Malama (Mfuwe): Mr Speaker, since the hon. Deputy Minister stated that the feeder roads are the responsibility of the local authorities, I would like to find out whether the ministry will start disbursing funds to local authorities so that they start working on the feeder roads in various districts.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, in the last part of my answer, I indicated the figure which the RDA has provided to local authorities for works on feeder roads. Yes, we plan together with the Ministry of Local Government, Housing, Early Education and Environmental Protection, and provide funding for the feeder roads.

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, what measures has the ministry put in place in order to co-ordinate the activities of the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) because the RRU is under the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, despite falling under provinces?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, we need to appreciate that although the RRU falls under our ministry, it actually sits in the provincial administration offices. The provincial administration co-ordinates work for all the councils in their respective provinces. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, regarding the funding that the hon. Minister mentioned, can he confirm that even Kalabo receives that money for feeder roads because we do not see the council carrying out road works there?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, in that respect, maybe, what we need to point out is that, last year, the RDA provided K140 billion for such works, but very little was utilised. Hence, the K80 billion we are talking about is a carry-over from last year. Maybe, it is a question of capacity.

I thank you, Sir.

ESTABLISHMENT OF BANK IN MANYAMA AREA

137. Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West) asked the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry whether the Government had any plans to facilitate the establishment of a commercial bank at Manyama area in Solwezi-West Parliamentary Constituency to service the growing mining settler population in the area.

The Deputy Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Mukata): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Government will facilitate the establishment of a commercial bank for Lumwana which also covers the Manyama area within the context of the Integrated Development Plan (IDP). The IDP is spearheaded by the Ministry of Local Government, Housing, Early Education and Environmental Protection. The IDP for Lumwana provides a plan of the entire area for different developments (or land uses), including commercial, residential, industrial and office development. The Government, through the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA), will play a role of facilitator to promote and attract private investment to the area which we expect will attract a commercial bank.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, when will the IDP be approved and finally implemented?

Mr Mukata: Mr Speaker, I do not think it is fair to ask that timeframe-related question, especially that this project falls under the portfolio of the Ministry of Local Government, Housing, Early Education and Environmental Protection. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya (Petauke): Mr Speaker, late last year, we saw that one of the financial authorities, Bloomberg, talked about the difficulties of investing in the banking sector in Africa and made reference to Zambia in particular. Obviously, this could be a result of some utterances made by hon. Ministers and some actions taken. Can the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry tell us what he intends to do to ensure that private funds are invested in the banking sector in this country. Maybe, places such as Manyama can attract investment in the banking sector so that the Government can use its money for the social sector and we can have more schools and buy more maize.

The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Sichinga): Mr Speaker, the question that was asked was very specific to Manyama and the answer that has been given is comprehensive. If the former Minister of Education wishes to raise another question, she is at liberty to do so.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Siliya: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Interruptions

FISH IMPORTS AND EXPORTS

138. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock why Zambia imported more fish than it exported in 2010.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Brigadier-General Kapaya): Mr Speaker, in 2010, capture fisheries production yielded 76,396 metric tonnes while aquaculture production yielded 10,291 metric tonnes, bringing the total fish production to 86,687 metric tonnes. This was too inadequate to meet the national demand for fish of 156,000 metric tonnes per annum, hence the need for imports from Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Tanzania, South Africa and China. 

Sir, in 2010, fish exports were mainly conducted by fish farmers rearing catfish which has a ready market in South Africa, the DRC and most of the West African countries. Ornamental fish was exported to European countries.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, importing more fish means that Zambia has very few commercial fish farmers. That being the case, how does the hon. Minister intend to increase the number of commercial fish farmers in the country?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, aquaculture production is driven by the sector. As a ministry, we are facilitating the provision of an environment under which this sector is expected to grow.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, owing to the fact that there was more fish imported into the country than exported, why can the Government not put in place measures to ban exports as opposed to importing the fish?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, the exported fish was more for ornamental purposes than commercial ones. Therefore, they were of no consequence to the economy of the country.

I thank you, Sir.

FISHERIES DEPARTMENT OFFICES IN CHABA

139. Mr Chisala asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock why the construction of offices for the Fisheries Department at Chaba in Chilubi District stalled in 2010. 

Brigadier-General Kapaya: Mr Speaker, the construction of offices for the Fisheries Department at Chaba in Chilubi District stalled in 2010 due to the following:

(i)    the tender procedures, through the Provincial Tender Committee in Kasama, initially took longer than expected to be completed; and

(ii)    when the construction reached window level, the contractor deserted the site. However, the contractor has since moved back on site after the Provincial Tender Committee in Kasama threatened to take court action against him.
I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the tender procedure was fraudulent? 

Laughter

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, we are not aware of any irregularities in the tender process.

I thank you, Sir.

FULLY-FLEDGED MINISTRY FOR GENDER

140. Ms Sayifwanda (Zambezi East) asked the Vice-President when the Gender and Child Development Division under the Office of the President will be turned into a fully-fledged ministry.

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr E. C. Lungu): Mr Speaker, the Gender and Child Development Division is one of the five divisions at Cabinet Office mandated to oversee and monitor the implementation of the National Gender Policy. Since the division is at Cabinet Office, the apex of Government authority, it provides the division with an overarching role of ensuring that it co-ordinates, monitors and facilitates the implementation of the National Gender Policy and gender mainstreaming activities, a mandate that cannot be performed by a ministry. 

In addition, its location at Cabinet Office presents an opportunity to have His Honour the Vice-President, as head of Government Business, to adequately represent gender matters both in Parliament and at Cabinet meetings.     

Mr Speaker, this means that if the division was transformed into a ministry, its status and authority would be lowered and the overarching role would be taken away. Lastly, maintaining the division at Cabinet Office is in line with Government’s policy of a lean Cabinet. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Ms Sayifwanda: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Deputy Minister whether he is aware that in the Southern African Development Community (SADC) most countries have created gender ministries. 

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament asking this question had a chance to serve in the division …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr E. C. Lungu: … in the previous Government and was also offered the opportunity to continue serving under the Patriotic Front (PF) Government. I am sure that had she been in this Government, she would have lobbied more to turn the division into a full ministry, but she lost the opportunity to do so. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, taking cognisance of the importance of paying attention to women’s needs, including giving them the societal decency they require and marriages, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what his Government’s position is on homosexuality as espoused by Mr Ban Ki-Moon. 

Laughter

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, I do not know whether gender has anything to do with homosexuality. 

Hon. Opposition Members: It does!

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, the question posed by the hon. Member for Zambezi East was whether the Government could consider turning the division into a fully-fledged ministry. Probably, the hon. Member should put in another question that will deal with the statements made by the Secretary-General of the United Nations. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister said that it is not possible to make the division a full ministry because its status would be lowered. He further said that the hon. Member who asked the question should have taken up the appointment and helped with the creation of this ministry. 

May I find out from the hon. Minister whether this is an indication that Hon. Sayifwanda, who was a Minister in the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government is the only qualified person to be Minister of Gender and that they could only create this ministry if she agreed to work for the PF? 

Could the hon. Deputy Minister clarify this position? 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, in answering the question, I pointed out that the hon. Member who put the question had a chance to join this Government and lobby for the upgrading of the division. I did not say that the person presently there is incompetent. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how many portfolio functions the Gender Division has. 

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, I am not avoiding the hon. Member’s question, but wish to state that the
the main question focuses on when this division could be turned into a ministry. I think that this is a different question. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, we probably need your support so that we can get a clear answer from the hon. Minister. One of the hon. Members referred to the SADC region where it seems to be a common practice to upgrade the gender desk to a ministry. The hon. Minister’s argument is that here, in Zambia, this would actually lower its status. 

Can he state whether or not it would make sense to, at least, consider discussing upgrading the Gender Desk to a ministry instead of just making accusations about the former Minister. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, without appearing to accuse anybody, it is up to the hon. Members of Parliament to lobby and convince us that there is a need to create a fully-fledged ministry for gender matters. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, according to the hon. Deputy Minister, upgrading this division to ministry level would lower its status. May I know whether a division is superior to a ministry? 

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, here, we are talking about the efficacy of a division and not a question of status. All we are saying is that it is easier for the division to deliver in its current form. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I tend to think that I heard the hon. Minister correctly when he stated that hon. Members of Parliament should lobby the PF Government so that it sees the need to create a gender ministry. The question that begs an answer is: Does the Government see the need to create a gender ministry or not?

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, for now, we do not see the need, hence my response to the previous question. Hon. Members can lobby and put their case across and, if we are convinced, we will go along with their suggestion because we are governing together. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that the reason this Government has reduced the Gender Ministry to a mere division is that it has less understanding of gender and considers it unimportant.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, I cannot confirm that this is the position. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether, firstly, in the last five years, under Hon. Sayifwanda, gender was a fully-fledged ministry and, secondly, what programmes or projects we achieved in that period which may warrant upgrading the division to a fully- fledged ministry.

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, not much was done in the last five years when, fortunately, for us, the division was managed by the hon. Member of Parliament who put this question.  

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr E. C. Lungu: We have the same management. In fact, …

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Let the hon. Minister respond. 

Mr E. C.  Lungu: … it is because of the failures of the past that there is no desire to make the division a fully-fledged ministry. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mazoka (Pemba): Mr Speaker, arising from all the answers given by the hon. Deputy Minister …

Ms Sayifwanda: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Ms Sayifwanda: Mr Speaker, in the first place, I wish to apologise to the hon. Female Member of Parliament, who was about to ask a supplementary question. This is my first point of order in this House.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Hanjika, hanjika!

Ms Sayifwanda: I am really surprised to learn from the hon. Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office that in the past five years, the Gender and Child Development Division did nothing to this nation. Is he in order to mislead the nation at large? All the people on your right benefited from the work of this division.

Hon. Government Members: How? Where?

Interruptions

Ms Sayifwanda: They got hammer mills, treadle pumps and loans. Is he in order to mislead this House that there was nothing that happened? Mr Speaker, I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: My ruling is that the hon. Deputy Minister should take into account that presentation as he responds to the next question.

Mrs Mazoka: Mr Speaker, before I was interrupted by that point of order, I wanted to ask a question arising from all the answers given by the hon. Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office, including that, if we want a fully-fledged Cabinet ministry of gender, we shall have to lobby for it. I do not know if any of the existing ministries have been lobbied for in order to be put in place.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Wisdom!

Mrs Mazoka: Women, in this country, have always had a raw deal.

Hon. Government Members: Ask your question!

Mrs Mazoka: Women are always pushed in the bacjground but, when you want our vote, you ask us to go out there to vote for you. All the men here, including the State President, was voted for, mostly, by women.

Interruptions

Mrs Mazoka: Is it asking for too much if we request that we be given a fully-fledged ministry?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mazoka: May I have the answer from the hon. Deputy Minister.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, thank you …

Hon. Government Members: Boma, Boma!

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order, order!

The Vice-President: … the first answer to this question relates to the efficacy of arrangements for promoting the gender principles. Since it is a cross-cutting issue that affects every ministry and every walk of life, it was felt better, in our thinking, to have a division at Cabinet Office, which is also supported by State House and the Vice-President’s Office, so that it extends across the various sectors than to have a purely ceremonial status of being a full ministry, even though it would be a very junior ministry, being smaller than other ministries.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Withholding the ministry status should not mean that we do not value the gender agenda. We do. We believe that our Government should be different from the way it was organised by those losers.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, I want to appreciate His Honour the Vice-President’s dash into the House once he realised his hon. Deputy was filibustering.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Filibustering is generally described as procrastination in giving Government policy.

Mr Mwila: What is your question?

Mr Nkombo: While His Honour the Vice-President was out, his hon. Deputy Ministry said that the previous Government had nothing in terms of development of the Gender Division that falls under his office. My question is: In his mind, does His Honour the Vice-President not believe that the introduction of the Anti-Gender Based Violence Act, which is attributed to the former Government that is now on my left, is a milestone towards the development agenda as regards the gender issue that we are discussing here?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the answer is, yes, but that could still have been done by the Vice-President’s Office.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: On a point of procedure, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, there seems to be a propensity, now, for people to debate questions. Is it in order that hon. Members debate their questions, instead of merely asking them in a straightforward manner?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: There is a procedural problem. The point of order was raised when nobody was speaking.

Mr Muntanga: Yes! It was on the Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Seminar!

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, first of all, it is in bad taste for His Honour the Vice-President to refer to the MMD as losers because the PF lost elections three times.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: Sir, I have a serious question arising from the answer given by the hon. Deputy Minister that the Government, under the PF, does not see any need to elevate the division to the level of fully-fledged ministry. Are issues of gender-based violence, women lacking empowerment, the low number of women representation in this House …

Ms Sayifwanda: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: … not enough evidence for the Government to consider giving this Division a higher profile?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we seem to have a misunderstanding concerning the word ‘status’. If it is purely ceremonial status it is bunkum. I think we need to say, “Is it status, that of an organisation, that can move freely throughout the different specialties in Zambia to get some widespread progress on the gender front or is it to have a little office of its own and jostle among the other ministries for airtime or talk time?”

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: We do not feel that status, in the sense of saying, “We think it is important, therefore, we are going to have a ministry.” The reason we have a Ministry of Home Affairs is not that we think home affairs is more important than something else, but because there are specialist organisations that need to be governed by a ministry in the particularly narrow area of security and law and order. Therefore, in the case of gender, the issue is much more widespread and must be tackled in a multifaceted manner. 

Interruptions

The Vice-President: We reserve the right to change our mind at any time, since we are the Government, Mr Kunda, SC. We think that this is the best organisational structure in order for us to deliver. That is what we believe and, if it is different from what the previous Government believed, sorry, then.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kunda, SC. (Muchinga): Mr Speaker, …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kunda, SC.: … I am very worried with the way the PF is trivialising issues to do with gender or women’s affairs.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kunda, SC.: Mr Speaker, resources are shared in Cabinet meetings which are attended only by hon. Ministers. That is why, in our Government, we had a fully-fledged hon. Minister, who did the best for the women of this country. That being the case, would it not be a better idea …

Mr Sichinga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, is the former Vice-President in order to make statements about trivialising the issues of gender when nobody on this side of the House has done so?

Interruptions

Mr Sichinga: The Government is, currently, in the process of giving a statement on how it perceives this matter. Is he in order to put words in our mouths when, in fact, His Honour the Vice-President has not stated that we have trivialised the issue of gender?

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!  

I stopped the hon. Member for Muchinga from completing his question. May he do so first.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kunda, SC,: Mr Speaker, I repeat that the PF has been trivialising issues of gender …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kunda, SC.: … and my view is that these matters should not be trivialised. Would it not be better to elevate this division to the level of a ministry so that a fully-fledged hon. Minister represents gender and women’s issues in Cabinet. Would it, also, not be justifiable for the women of this country to vote against the PF because it is trivialising their affairs.

Laughter 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, that example of campaigning in the absence of an election says a lot about the MMD.

Laughter

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: If we are trivialising gender matters, is that the reason we have more women on this side of the House than on that side?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Are we trivialising these issues when we have made the first woman Inspector-General of Police?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Who is the head of the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC)?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Who is the head of the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC)?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Is that not progress of a non-trivial nature with regard to gender equality?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: I think my honourable predecessor, the former Vice-President, …

Laughter

The Vice-President: … did not clearly hear the original answer to this question, which included the sentence: “In addition, the placement of the Gender Division at Cabinet Office presents the opportunity to have the Vice-President as the head of Government Business to adequately represent gender matters both in Parliament and in Cabinet meetings.”

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: This answer was clearly given and, I am sure, it is not out of order to say that, if we look back at the second MMD term, 1996 to 2001, the hon. Minister …

Hon. Opposition Members: You were there!

The Vice-President: I was not there. The hon. Minister who was representing gender affairs, then, was also the hon. Minister Without Portfolio and he represented it very adequately.

Ms Siliya interjected.

The Vice-President: He is famous for the enormous cat he put among the pigeons in Addis Ababa and advancing the cause of gender in Africa generally.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, I am a bit concerned. In most cases, when His Honour the Vice-President is answering, he is very open-minded and I enjoy the answers. However, in this particular case, I am surprised at his aggressiveness.

Laughter 

Mr Simbao: Gender is not the only subject that is cross-cutting. Health is, too. How come health has a fully-fledged ministry, but His Honour the Vice-President is defending the Government’s position that gender should remain a division because it is cross-cutting?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, if we were to go into the fine details of organisational theory, I could, possibly, answer that but, I mean, if you take various aspects of health, for example, HIV/AIDS, it has been made into a very focused non-single ministry topic. We actually have a working group on HIV/AIDS in addition to the Cabinet Sub-Committee on HIV/AIDS, which is extremely diffused and has multiple representation. As for the question of aggression, which seems to worry the MMD terribly, I think it is a reciprocal product. If you are aggressive to me, I will also be aggressive. If you are friendly, I will be friendly too, chapwa.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati (Lunte): Mr Speaker, His Honour the Vice-President indicated that, in the second term of Office of the MMD, there was an hon. Minister responsible for gender matters and that he performed very well. Is he, by extension, saying that by letting gender matters be handled by a division, the PF Government is confirming that it does not want gender issues to be addressed comprehensively? 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I do not understand the logic that the hon. Member for Lunte is using. Therefore, I cannot answer his question. Maybe, I can find someone in Lunte who understands his style of thinking so that we can, maybe, give him a written answer.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter {mospagebreak}

DOCTOR-PATIENT RATIO

141. Mr Chungu (Luanshya) asked the Minister of Health what the current national doctor-patient ratio in Zambia was.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Chikusu): Mr Speaker, the Health Management Information System that is currently being used by the Ministry of Health does not capture the number of patients seen by each doctor countrywide and as such, it would be difficult to calculate the doctor-patient ratio. However, the Ministry of Health uses the doctor-population ratio as recommended by the World Health Organisation (WHO). In Zambia, there are 1,072 doctors and a population of approximately 13,046,508. According to the 2010 National Census of Housing and Population, therefore, the doctor-population ratio is 1:12,170 and the recommended doctor-population ratio is 1:5,000.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chungu: Mr Speaker, are there any measures that the Government is putting in place to try and bring back to Zambia our well-trained doctors who have gone to work in other countries.

Dr Chikusu: Mr Speaker, the human resource component is regarded as one of the most important factors which affect the delivery of quality health services. The Government has put in place various initiatives in order to attract the medical personnel who have gone overseas to come back home. 

Firstly, we need to improve the standard of the equipment in the hospitals which the medical personnel can use for their skills to be sharpened. Secondly, we need to have adequate housing units for all members of staff at the various hospitals. Thirdly, we need to have a loan facility to enable them to buy personal cars or houses. Fourthly, we need to maintain a good retention scheme which is based on a package that will attract doctors who are serving in other countries.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kazabu (Nkana): Mr Speaker, let me take advantage of the substantive question raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Luanshya and ask a supplementary and related question. What is the nurse-patient ratio because doctors work with nurses?

Dr Chikusu: Mr Speaker, the question was strictly about doctors, but for the benefit of our hon. Member, the total number of nurses in Zambia is 77,000.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the ratio of 1:12,000 as against a recommended 1:5,000 is a source of worry. I would like the hon. Minister to shed some light on the real ratio considering that many of these 1,800 plus doctors are actually practising executive directors of hospitals and do not necessarily go to wards. Would he give us a ratio of the general surgeons when compared to the population?

Dr Chikusu: Mr Speaker, the question about surgeons seems to be a new one.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Deputy Minister to state the number of doctors that are currently working in Luapula Province.

Dr Chikusu: Mr Speaker, the number of doctors working in Luapula Province is forty-nine.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, I listened attentively to the response of the hon. Minister. Considering the fact that the ratio recommended by WHO is 1:5,000, why is this Government not putting in place efforts aimed at retaining the doctors in Kalabo? At one time in this House, I mentioned that a doctor at a hospital in Kalabo wanted to leave because of not having been paid a certain allowance. Why is the Government not paying the on-call allowances to doctors at Uka Hospital in Kalabo District?

Dr Chikusu: Mr Speaker, the question regarding the hospital in Kalabo is a new one.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, in his response, the hon. Deputy Minister made reference to the doctor-population ratio when the question was referring to the doctor-patient ratio. He said that they are not able to capture this information because the system does not allow them to capture the doctor-patient ratio. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether they are concerned that they are not able to capture the doctor-patient ratio, and if they are worried, what is the Government doing to ensure that a mechanism is put in place to capture the doctor-patient ratio so that we know how many patients are being attended to by a doctor?

Dr Chikusu: Mr Speaker, the answer is very simple. The concern is there by the current Government and we are working on it. I do not want to go further than that.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, my colleagues on your right side have been persistent in stating that the people of Zambia do not thrive on statistics …

Dr Chituwo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I truly thank you for giving me this chance to raise this very important point of order. Is the hon. Deputy Minister of Health in order to mislead this House and the nation at large that we do not have a system of calculating the patient-doctor ratio?

Mr Speaker: My ruling is that since the hon. Deputy Minister is still responding to supplementary questions, the hon. Member for Mumbwa will be at liberty to pursue this question with the hon. Deputy Minister.

Mr Mwiimbu: I was indicating, as a preamble, that our colleagues on your right side have always been persistent in informing the nation that statistics are useless if people do not benefit from them. Is the hon. Deputy Minister of Health aware that in this country, …

Hon. PF Members: Finger pointing!

Mr Mwiimbu: … I am not pointing at anyone, I am just trying to emphasise my point. Is the hon. Minister aware that there are vast constituencies in this country that do not have doctors, and I have in mind Bweengwa, Zambezi West and Pemba? All these constituencies have no doctors. Using the wisdom of the PF, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister the relevance of the statistics which we have been given when there are no doctors in some constituencies?

Dr Chikusu: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for raising that question. Even though the question is good, it is a new one. I would like to put it that way.

Hon. Opposition Member: How?

Laughter

Dr Chikusu: Let me also take this opportunity to talk more about the Health Management Information System. It is currently being used, but does not capture the number of patients seen by each doctor countrywide. The ministry is currently engaged in efforts to perfect it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, arising from the follow-up question from the hon. Member for Luanshya and answers given by the hon. Deputy Minister on the measures that the Government is putting in place to retain the doctors working outside the country, what is the ministry ...

Interruptions

Mr Namulambe: ... doing about the directive that was given to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning by the Head of State to double the salaries for medical staff? 

Dr Chikusu:  Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Mpongwe for that question even though it is a new one. I think, as he has put it, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning was tasked to tackle that issue.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister has shown us how lazy he is to research on questions that are asked regarding his portfolio.

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: May I find out from the ...

Mr Mwenya: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwenya: Mr Speaker, I rise on a serious point of order. Is the hon. Member for Gwembe, who was attempting to ask a question, in order to refer to an elected hon. Member of this House, who is a doctor for that matter, as a lazy person? I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Speaker: My ruling is that the subject or debate at hand, as you all should have noticed, involves a number of technical questions. I do not think it is fair to expect the hon. Deputy Minister to have ready answers to all these technical questions. Some of the questions which have been asked qualify to be referred to as supplementary ones while the other ones are clearly new questions. Therefore, I consider a blanket and sweeping allegation that the hon. Minister is indolent to be unfair.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Therefore, I would request the hon. Member for Gwembe to withdraw the allegation and proceed with the question.

He may continue, please.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the word ‘lazy’ and replace it with the word ‘indolent’.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! 

The hon. Member obviously appreciates we are employing the Queen’s language and that he has totally misunderstood my ruling because the word ‘indolence’ means laziness. My ruling is that there is no basis upon which you can fairly allege that the hon. Deputy Minister is either lazy or indolent. I order that the hon. Member for Gwembe withdraws the word and proceeds with the question.

The hon. Member for Gwembe may continue.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, I withdraw both words. Why is the hon. Deputy Minister unable to give the House clear and satisfactory answers?

Mr Mwenya interjected.

Mr Ntundu: The hon. Deputy Minister who has interjected is with the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication. What is his problem?

Mr Speaker: Order! I think let us give the hon. Member for Gwembe an opportunity to ask his question. It is only fair that we do so.

The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, can I ask a question which relates to the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication if he wants me to challenge him?

Mr Speaker: In an appropriate context, yes.

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: Thank you, Sir. Now that the ministry is not able to give statistics on the doctor-patient ratio, how is it going to procure drugs? Are drugs to be procured out of the blues or will it be done according to the statistics of how many patients on average are attended to by doctors?

Dr Chikusu: Mr Speaker, that is a new question which I will not answer.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, arising from the answer that has ...

Mr Kaingu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I apologise to the hon. Member for Kasenengwa for interrupting her. The hon. Members of the Executive in this House have been advised to carry out extensive research in order for them to avoid saying that the supplementary questions which were raised are new. Are the hon. Ministers in order, after the advice from the Chair that they must research extensively to continue informing the Opposition when supplementary questions are asked, to say that they are new?

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I had ruled earlier that the subject under discussion is rather technical and would be unfair to expect that the hon. Deputy Minister of Health should have all the answers on his fingertips. That notwithstanding, I also see no harm and, in fact, would suggest that it would be prudent if the hon. Deputy Minister were to come back at a later stage to advise and respond to all these technical questions …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: … so that they should not remain hanging in the air …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: … when information can, in due course, be obtained by the relevant hon. Ministers.

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Deputy Minister tell this House if they have registers of the patients that go to hospitals to see doctors per day, per week, per month and per year?

Interruptions

Dr Chikusu: Mr Speaker, the methodology being used to capture the doctor-patient statistics has been indicated. The WHO has recommended a certain system which we should employ if we are to capture an accurate doctor-patient ratio. Therefore, if the hon. Members wants more information, they are free to ask further questions and we shall provide the answers. This particular one is a new question.

I thank you, Sir.
_______

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1612 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 1st March, 2012.