Debates- Thursday, 1st March, 2012

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Thursday, 1st March, 2012

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]






Mr Speaker: Hon. Members will recall that, on Friday, 24th February, 2012, when the House was considering Question for Oral answer No. 106 on the Order Paper and Hon. D. M. Mabumba, MP, Deputy Minister of Education, Science and Vocational Training was debating, the hon. Member for Chongwe, Mrs S. T. Masebo, MP, raised the following point of order:

“Mr Speaker, I apologise to the hon. Deputy Minister for interrupting, but, Sir, I rise on a constitutional point of order. Is the Government in order to continue paying the Former Head of State, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda, as if he has retired from active politics when, in fact, he has not? I wish to quote from yesterday’s paper:

‘Resign ─ Muteteka dares Rupiah Banda. MMD National Youth Chairman, Moses Muteteka has challenged party president, Rupiah Banda, to resign from his position to pave way for fresh leadership’.

“This, to me, means he is still holding a party post and so why should this new Government, which the people of Zambia gave such a huge mandate on the principle of the rule of law, not implement the law by ensuring that it stops paying him as if he is a retired person from politics? I need your serious ruling and I will lay the paper on the Table.”

Hon. Members, in my immediate remarks, I stated as follows:

“In order for me to give a measured response to that point of order, I will reserve my ruling.”

Hon. Members, I have since studied the point of order and wish to make the following ruling.

Hon. Members, the point of order by the hon. Member for Chongwe Parliamentary Constituency raises the issue of the Government’s alleged failure to implement the law in relation to the Former President, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda, vis-à-vis his alleged involvement in active party politics. The House has put legislation on benefits and conditions which apply for one to benefit as a former President of the Republic of Zambia. To this effect, the benefits of Former Presidents Act, Cap. 15 of the Laws of Zambia, as amended by Act No. 21 of 1998, provides as follows:

    “Section 5    (1)    The pension and other benefits conferred by this Act shall not be paid, assigned or provided to a former President who is –

(a)    in receipt of a salary from Government; or

(b)    engaged in active politics.

(2)    a former President shall be disqualified from the pension and other benefits conferred by this House –

(a)    if he ceases to hold office on the ground of wilful violation of the Constitution or of misconduct; or 

(b)    if he is convicted of an offence and he is sentenced to imprisonment for a term exceeding six months; and the National Assembly on a Motion supported by not less than two thirds of the members of the Assembly, resolves that the former President shall not receive the whole or such part of the pension and other benefits as it may determine.”  

Therefore, hon. Members, the law is crystal clear on this matter and the onus is on the Executive to implement it.

Thank you.




The Minister of Education, Science and Vocational Training (Dr Phiri): Mr Speaker, …

Hon. Muntanga: Stand up

Mr Speaker: I cannot see any chair here.

 Dr Phiri: … Hon. Muntanga should be reprimanded. 


Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you for according me this opportunity to make a ministerial statement on the current state of affairs at the University of Zambia (UNZA). 

Mr Speaker, since its inception, in 1966, the university population has grown by more than four times without corresponding increase in infrastructure at the institution. This has put the university infrastructure, which includes water supply and sanitation, under very high stress. When the university was constructed, the student accommodation was for two students per room but, currently, while UNZA officially accommodates two students per room, due to inadequate bed spaces and increased squatting, the actual occupancy per room ranges from six to eight. This means that the sanitation facilities are exerted to eight times the usage they were designed for thereby increasing their wear and tear.

Additionally, all the rooms at the university were not designed with drainage facilities to handle kitchen waste. This is because the cooking, then, as per design, was to be done centrally at the two kitchens at the institution. However, currently, students cook in their rooms. Thus, in addition to the overcrowding, the facilities are also under stress to handle kitchen waste. This has caused extra stress not only to the water and sanitation facilities, but also the electrical services. 

Mr Speaker, the increased space and the old age of the water main supply pipes has occasionally led to water supply pipe bursts. It is due to these reasons that, on 26th February, 2012, the main water pump burst, thus leading to water shortage. When the university authorities were repairing this burst pipe, water supply had to be shut down to facilitate these repairs, resulting in the whole university having no water and, subsequently, as expected, causing students to boycott classes.

Mr Speaker, I now report that the water problem was rectified on Monday, 27th February, 2012, at 1400 hours. Since then, and to be specific, on 28th February, classes had resumed. 

Mr Speaker, in order to find a lasting solution to this problem, my ministry, the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) with the university authorities have calculated that K19.5 billion would be needed to completely overhaul the whole water reticulation and sanitation system.

 Further, there is a need to decongest the hostels by building more hostels with kitchen facilities. This will alleviate the current shortage of hostel accommodation. In the interim, the ministry, the DMMU and the university are working out measures on how best to facilitate this decongestion programme we have in mind. In addition, for the long-term, the Public- Private Partnership (PPP) Council of Ministers is handling this matter of acute shortage of bed spaces at the three public universities, which are UNZA, the Copperbelt University (CBU) and Mulungushi University.

Mr Speaker, allow me to commend the UNZA council, management, staff and students for the exemplary team work they have shown during this crisis and for their readiness to wait for lasting solutions. In a similar line, allow me to take advantage of this opportunity to give this august House the current status of the CBU.

Mr Speaker, I wish to dismiss the erroneous media reports that the CBU was closed indefinitely. I repeat that I wish to dismiss the erroneous media reports suggesting that the CBU was closed indefinitely. The correct position on this matter is that at the time this erroneous publication reported that the CBU had been closed indefinitely, it was, in fact, on routine recess. The university was due to reopen on 3rd March, 2012, for the 2012/2013 Academic Year.

Mr Speaker, let me report that, on 24th February, 2012, there was a hailstorm which blew off the roofs of some of the buildings. As a result of this, the university senate has issued a statement, with the full backing of the ministry, that the reopening of the university be rescheduled to a date to be announced. The postponement is to facilitate the repair works to the two structures whose roofs were blown off. The university council is meeting on 2nd March, 2012 to give direction on when the university is opening. It will not be indefinite, but we are proposing that, within one month, these repairs will have been completed. 

Mr Speaker, the ministry has put in place a team of experts to assess the extent of damage and design corrective measures. The ministry is determined to ensure that the university reopens as quickly as the university council directs.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now at liberty to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Education, Science and Vocational Training.

Mr Mutati (Lunte): Mr Speaker, I wish to thank the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Childhood, for the statement and some of the actions that he has taken, particularly at UNZA. Hon. Minister, K19.5 billion, under your budget, is a small amount. Could you, as a matter of emergency, solicit for these funds, even if they are supplementary, in order to ease the welfare hardship of the students at UNZA? Therefore, could the hon. Minister bring a supplementary budget which this House will support?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I thank you for that support and will do everything possible to alleviate the plight of our students.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, we have heard that there are problems relating to infrastructure at UNZA, and yet the priority of this Government is to build new universities at Mulakupikwa and Lubwa in Chinsali. Since there is enough land at UNZA, is it not possible for the Government to put effort in putting up more infrastructure in order to avoid the situation of having eight students in room?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, such anxieties are expected. However, on the ground, there are serious efforts to solve the infrastructure problems of the two public universities.

Sir, let me state that both my predecessors, Hon. Siliya and Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa, left these efforts which, I am satisfied, will soon come to fruition. I am talking about their efforts towards the PPP. I am a member of the Council of Ministers. However, since I do not chair that council, I cannot divulge any latest information on that.

Just to assure the House, the two public universities have received serious attention and, soon, infrastructural works will begin. We have had tremendous response from the private sector towards improving and expanding the facilities at the two institutions of learning. As a result, we now have the strength to look at other possibilities. The hon. Member will understand that this congestion is as a result of having limited tertiary institutions at the university level.

Mr Speaker, I have indicated, in the past, that we have 644 secondary schools in the country chasing few places at the three public institutions where ten thousand applications are received each year. The demand for higher education is real. For us to turn away people who want to get education at that level is not possible. At the same time, the university wants to raise money from tuition fees because the grants from the Government are rather limited. So, the problems we have are like a jigsaw puzzle. However, the need for new institutions at this level will not diminish.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalaba (Bahati): Mr Speaker, in his ministerial statement to this House, the hon. Minister said that when there was a problem of lack of water at the institution, as was expected, the students protested. I would like him to inform this House what measures his ministry is putting in place to avoid the escalating problem of protests at UNZA.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, in my address to all stakeholders at the university, yesterday, I mentioned that students had a democratic right to express themselves. They had planned the protest for this week, but I warned them that institutions have procedures and regulations to follow. One of them is that when there are three days of continuous protests, the senate is forced to close the institution, and so the students should not dare senate to do that. It is in their interest to complete their studies as quickly as possible and not delay this because they are in a congested environment.

Sir, feedback from student union leadership indicates that my advice was heeded.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, as former University of Zambia Student Union (UNZASU) President, who is now privileged to represent the people of Choma Central, I would like the hon. Minister to confirm that the problem of sanitation and water reticulation at the institution is largely as a result of lack of meaningful maintenance, whatsoever, due to poor funding by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government. 

Further, I would like to find out when the construction of the hostels, that were started by the Mwanawasa Administration to coincide with the All Africa Games, but were later halted, will be completed in order to cushion the acute accommodation situation at the institution.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, let me also state that I am a former President-General of the students union …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Phiri: … years before the hon. Member became president of the students union. Fortunately, I quickly grew out of the youthful zeal of doing certain things. However, I thank you for your question.

I confirm that, over the years, we have neglected our key institution of learning, UNZA. There is an urgent need to look at the funding aspect and we are doing that at the moment. As I have already stated, the grants that the public universities are getting are not worth talking about.

Mr Speaker, the tuition fees have remained low because of political expedience. This means that the public universities are running at deficits. In fact, they survive on supplementary allocations. This can erode their autonomy and academic freedom. 

However, let me assure you that the ministry is making serious efforts with the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to bring this perennial problem to an end.

Sir, Hon. Mwitwa, …

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Hon. Mweetwa.


Dr Phiri: Mweetwa, I beg your pardon, Mr Speaker.

 I will be the first to admit that the injustices that we have shown to this institution must be redressed now. I will be persuading this House, again, to look at the overall allocation to the Ministry of Education, Science and Vocational Training because we are not meeting the benchmarks, even at the Southern African Development Community (SADC) level. With your support and that of my colleagues in the Government, I hope things will change.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether the PF Government will increase funding to UNZA, the CBU and Mulungushi University, having noted that there has been inadequate funding to these institutions.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, just to emphasise the point, the PF Manifesto demands that we do that. We are working out modalities on how the next budget could look more favourably at the public universities.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, considering that we may never have enough resources, as a Government, to help the university reach the expected standard, does the hon. Minister have any plans to outsource some services such as accommodation, restaurant and laundry to the private sector so that the Government concentrates on academic services as it is done in other countries? We have been talking about such things for a long time. When is this going to be done?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, in my submission, I indicated the role that the PPP Council of Ministers is playing not only at the two public universities, but also in other areas to give an opportunity to the private sector to contribute to the development of our country. I am satisfied that with the plans that are in place for both the CBU and UNZA, the scenario will change. I hope we will see the fruits of our efforts through the PPP this year. I know this will happen

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, according to the simple English I know, when a date of an event is not known, as is in the case of the opening of the CBU, the terminology for this is ‘indefinitely’. Would the hon. Minister deny that the opening date for the CBU has been deferred indefinitely?


Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, in the simple English that I know, …


Dr Phiri: … I have explained the situation, hon. Member of Parliament. I want to thank you personally for having brought the question on the CBU. 

Mr Speaker, since the day you indicated that I must produce a ministerial statement to this august House, I have had meetings with the council of the CBU and its management. During these meetings, we have agreed that one month would be sufficient for us to look into the various aspects, but the final decider is the council of the university. The hon. Minister does not dictate like a good head teacher does. Universities are institutions that must be respected. I will be the last person to disrespect our universities because that will bring chaos. When the council meets on 2nd March, and having agreed much earlier on the timeframe, I cannot say the university is closed indefinitely. Within one month, we should be seeing the institution opening.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr C. Mulenga (Chinsali): Mr Speaker, congestion appears to be the major problem that these institutions are facing. Can the hon. Minister explain why it is important for the PF Government to construct more universities such as the ones coming up at Mulakupikwa and Lubwa Mission …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Mulenga: … in my constituency in order to decongest the institutions. Can he also explain why it took more than twenty years for the MMD Government to wait for the PF Government to come and sort out the many problems at these institutions?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I cannot agree more with the hon. Member of Parliament. We have been given an opportunity by the people of Zambia to do something about this. In his providence, God has placed me in this position. It is my responsibility to deliver to this country. If I will make a difference, the people will judge between me and those who were there before.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, as former Vice-Treasurer of the UNZASU Executive …


Ms Imenda: … I would like to agree with the hon. Minister that UNZA has remained in a state that it was when I was there many decades ago. That university was built partly by mobilising resources from the citizenry of this country. It is very important that we take this very seriously and quickly mobilise resources for this university. As a way forward, my suggestion is that we introduce a special tax on items such cigarettes and beer, seeing the reluctance …

Mr Speaker: Order! 

I tend to gather that you are not putting forward a question of clarification. You seem to be making suggestions.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, would the hon. Minister, please, consider mobilising resources urgently through certain tax measures on items such as tujilijili?


Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I am thrilled by the fact that the number of former student leaders is increasing in the House.


Dr Phiri: This shows that the leadership training that we received at this institution was useful. Coming to your point, I cannot agree with you more. I hope, as a former treasurer of the students union, you can spearhead some of the efforts …


Dr Phiri: … of getting the institution back to normal. You will remember that the late President Mwanawasa, SC. changed the face of the room he was occupying when he was president of the students union. As treasurer and, since you were keeping money, you can contribute more rooms to the institution.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, this is an opportunity to clarify issues arising from the statement. I know that it is very tempting to debate, probably, juicy as the subject may be, but the sense of this session is to clarify issues arising from the ministerial statement. For those of you who are inclined to debate, please, restrain yourselves.

Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, I want to remind the hon. Minister that I was also hon. Minister of Education before my two other colleagues.


Dr Chituwo: I also want to remind him that when we had a crisis at UNZA, many years ago ─ I do not know whether the hon. Minister was there then ─ I was also Acting President of UNZASU.


Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I am aware that there is a vibrant research body at the university. Can the hon. Minister clarify the role of the PPPs in research, for the purpose of contributing to infrastructure development of the university?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I did indicate that the PPP Council of Ministers handles, partly, infrastructural problems at the three public universities and many other areas that I will not talk about because I am not the right person to do so. The chairperson of the council is the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. Just to confirm, however, research is one aspect that the PPP arrangement looks at. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, my question was addressed by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chongwe. I just want to add that this is the practice in most countries. They do not depend on hostels at universities. It is important that, as the hon. Minister addresses the issue of PPPs, he also ensures that the hostels are appropriate in accordance with the university requirement. 

Mr Belemu (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, as former vice-president of the students union …


Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that his ministry is working with the DMMU. I would like to know whether the situation at the university has reached disaster levels. 

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, there was a crisis on 27th February, 2012, leading to serious water shortages and sanitation problems. The university management called in the DMMU for quick assessment. I commend them because we did not want the situation to get out of control. 

However, between the university and the ministry, we are working out a package that can address this problem as quickly as possible. Currently, I can confirm that life is almost back to normal at the university. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Chishimba (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister went to UNZA to address the students. We are happy for him that he was not chased like the former hon. Minister, Ms Dora Siliya.


Mr Chishimba: Can he explain to this House what the response from the students was after he addressed them.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, you would have heard had I been chased. 


Dr Phiri: The welcome that I received indicates how highly the students esteem the Head of State and the PF. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Phiri: They are as patient as the youth on the streets. They are waiting for our party to deliver according to our manifesto, ... 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Phiri: … and I applaud them. 

Mr Speaker, comparing my visit to the university with any others’ would be an unjust act. I went alone. Hon. Dora Siliya did not go with me. So, there is no basis for comparison at all. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, the CBU roofs that were blown off …

Mr Mufalali: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised. 

Before you proceed, is it a point of order touching on the debate? Please, bear in mind that the sense of points of order should be on violation of rules of debate.  

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order that borders on constitutional matters and on the Government. 

Is it in order, Sir, for the Government to allow the publishing of articles that border on ethnic cleansing, inciting and segregation? I have with me the Daily Mail Newspaper of Thursday, March 1st, 2012. The heading of the article reads “Questioning the authenticity of the Barotseland Agreement”.
Mr Speaker, in this article, the writer has depicted the Lozi people as ignorant and imperialist. I wish to quote from paragraph 16, which says: 

“I am certain that two things are likely to happen as a result of this article: first, it would solidify the Government position against the Lozi traditionalists and, in the second place, it would make the PF Government to only watch over the fence into the tribal political arena because it is the Lozi imperialism that has brought about the rise of Nkoya and Lamba nationalism.”

 Mr Speaker, there are several expressions in the article that …


Mr Speaker: Order!

Let the hon. Member make his presentation.

Mr Mufalali: … tend to indicate or incite other tribes to rise against the Lozis. I will lay the paper on the Table. 
Mr Speaker, is it in order for this Government to continue allowing the publication of articles like this one that seem to be bordering on ensuring that certain tribes are segregated or border on ethnicity. 

As if this is not enough, Sir, I wish to quote the Secretary-General of the PF, Mr Kabimba, in his address to the nation on television and radio, in which he bordered on ethnicity by saying that, if one knew the demographic and ethnic structure of the Western Province, one would arrive at the conclusion that, in fact, the Lozis are a minority against a number of tribes that he named.


Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, I will lay the paper on the Table. 

Mr Mufalali laid the paper on the Table. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! 

The ruling of the Chair is that he has to peruse the article in question to make an appropriate ruling. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mooya: Mr Speaker, the CBU roofs were blown off. We cannot allow public funds to go down the drain in such a manner. I would like to know if there will be any technical investigations to determine exactly what happened. I have in mind three possibilities; poor design, lack of consideration for the speedy wind or poor workmanship by the contractor. 

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, those anxieties exercise our minds, too, considering that one hostel is a newly built one. So, until the team that we have sent to investigate and assess reports back, I cannot confirm your fears.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kazabu (Nkana): Mr Speaker, first of all, let me acknowledge and appreciate the comprehensive statement presented to this House by the hon. Minister of Education, Science and Vocational Training. Clearly, from that statement, the conditions at UNZA are unacceptable.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Kazabu: The reason is simply that the infrastructure, in terms of sanitation, is inadequate and, in some cases, obsolete. I suspect that, even in terms of classroom space, our students must be crowded. The question is: In those bleak circumstances, is the university going to continue enrolling students at the same level it is doing now?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, the two universities, particularly UNZA, are fully aware of the predicament in which they find themselves. We have asked them to provide the ministry with a concept paper on the way forward. After studying their stand against ours, we will determine the way forward. Until then, I will not say much, apart from agreeing with the hon. Member that, yes, the situation warrants serious concern.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Hon. Minister through you, Mr Speaker, the subject under discussion, both at the CBU and UNZA, has something to do with engineering, and I know that both institutions offer engineering courses. Now, what role do these faculties play in preventive maintenance? Should we, really, be grappling with blown off roofs when we have engineers at both institutions?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, both universities have resident engineers with fully-trained personnel. As resident engineers, they are at liberty to fall on the faculties that are nearest to their portfolios. However, in other fora, I have bemoaned the lack of collaboration and giving our students a hands-on experience. Such incidences would have provided the students with a valuable lesson. I can only urge the two managements to consider your point.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.


The Minister of Lands, Energy and Water Development (Mr Yaluma): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to brief the public, through this august House, on the reported fuel shortage in Mansa District, in the Luapula Province.

Sir, following this report, my ministry has made follow ups with Oil Marketing Companies (OMCs) supplying filling stations operating in Mansa, namely, Total, Puma, Spectra Oil and Continental Oil. As of the evening of 28th February, 2012, all the filling stations, except Puma, confirmed that they had run out of diesel and petrol and attributed the shortage to a sudden rise in demand, which they could not explain. 

The information, so far gathered, is that:

(i)    Puma Energy received 18,500 litres of diesel and 6,000 litres of petrol on Friday, 24th February, 2012. These quantities are sufficient to last between eight and fifteen days at the normal sales rate;

(ii)    Total received 21,000 litres of diesel and 14,000 litres of petrol on 27th February, 2012. These quantities are sufficient to last seven days;

(iii)    Spectra Oil received 20,000 litres of diesel and 14,000 litres of petrol on Monday, 27th February, 2012. These quantities are sufficient to last between nine and ten days; and

(iv)    Continental Oil has not been receiving fuel due to the company’s failure to settle a debt of K467,800,349.93 that was due on 1st February, 2012. So, the company owes Tanzania Zambia Mafuta (TAZAMA) that amount.

Mr Speaker, from the information received, all filling stations, except Continental Oil, received sufficient fuel, in the last two days, to last between seven and fifteen days at a normal consumption rate.

With this development, the OMCs were requested, and they assured the ministry, to immediately send fuel tankers to mitigate the situation. As of this morning, the fuel situation in Mansa is as follows:

(i)    Total had received 21,000 litres of diesel and 16,000 litres of petrol; and

(ii)    Puma had received 13,000 litres of diesel and 13,000 litres of petrol.

In addition to the above, Spectra had tankers on their way to Mansa with 20,000 litres of diesel and 16,000 litres of petrol.

In order to know, exactly, what happened, the ministry has initiated an investigation to check whether all the fuel purported to have been supplied to Mansa was actually supplied or, perhaps, part of it could have been diverted to other areas, leading to the shortage.

Mr Speaker, the ministry is concerned that, despite the country having sufficient fuel stocks, localised shortages are being caused by OMCs and other participants. Obviously, this situation is unacceptable and the Government cannot allow it to continue. In view of this, my ministry will institute the following measures:

(i)    information relating to failure by an OMC to buy fuel from the Ndola Fuel Terminal will be disseminated to all concerned so that corrective action is taken to avoid any shortages. In the past, we have observed that shortages can be caused, merely, by consumers believing that there would be a shortage and, hence, they buy fuel in panic; and

(ii)    OMCs and or any other participant in fuel marketing who deprives an area of fuel supply when such an entity is licensed to supply in that area will be penalised. This will, for example, entail that an OMC that fails to buy fuel at the Ndola Fuel Terminal on account of indebtedness will be penalised for its inability to supply. Such penalties will not exclude withdrawal of licences.

My ministry is positive that these measures will assist in avoiding incidences like the one that occurred in Mansa.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, it is now time to ask questions by way of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Lands, Energy and Water Development.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, when will the ministry undertake the project to store fuel reserves which can last for fifteen days in all the provinces as talked about in the various reports given to this Parliament so that there is ready fuel in the provincial headquarters? 

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, as I said in my explanation, I do not think that the fifteen-day fuel reserve initiative has anything to do with the matter at hand because we deliver fuel which lasts between seven to fifteen days to respective areas. So, having storage tanks in the provincial headquarters would not have affected what happened in Mansa. At the same time, we would like to say that we are putting up storage tanks in all the provincial centres. This is being done in order to ensure that fuel can be stored in various areas to cater for such eventualities, at least, for a longer period of time, but not more than fifteen days.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chishiba (Kafulafuta): Mr Speaker, I want to find out from the hon. Minister of Lands, Energy and Water Development whether we have to wait for a fuel shortage in order for us to penalise OMCs which are not being run well instead of putting in place mechanisms such as routinely checking financial statements of OMCs and their liquidity status. This will enable us to know whether they will supply fuel to all provincial centres. Is there any mechanism that we can put in place because it looks like there is a total absence of Government intervention in this matter? We only bring up penalties after the OMCs have caused a lot of inconveniences and business comes to a standstill.

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, we do request OMCs to make an advance payment, which is used as security for all the fuel which is being taken under credit. As for Continental Oil, right now, it has reached the ceiling of its security payment and, therefore, we cannot proceed with giving the company any more fuel on credit. Security measures are there to ensure that we properly manage the disbursement of fuel from our terminals in Ndola.

At the same time, we have engaged the so-called price matching managers in various areas around the country, whose responsibility is to ensure that the fuel taken must be signed off in that particular area. These managers take their reports to the Energy Regulation Board (ERB). We cannot always manage to beat the thinking of a human being despite having all the mechanisms which I have mentioned in place. At one time or the other, they might be cleverer than we are.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Siliya (Petauke): Mr Speaker, could it not be, actually, that the …

Mr Namulambe: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order and I want to apologise to the hon. Member of Parliament for Petauke for disturbing her. This point of order is of national interest. On 24th February, 2012, we had the privilege of having the Secretary-General of the United Nations (UN) address this august House. On page 3, paragraph 4 and 5 of his speech, he said:

“Now you have embarked on transformation agenda – a process for a new people-driven Constitution that will be a foundation for Zambia’s progress … a Constitution that will stand the test of time.

“This offers Zambia an opportunity to lead once more by enshrining the highest standards of human rights and protections of all people – regardless of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation or disability.”

Mr Speaker, the technical committee of experts had earlier indicated that the draft Constitution was going to be ready by February, 2012. God was kind enough such that instead of the month of February ending on the 28th, it ended on the 29th. We have now heard that the draft Constitution is going to be ready sometime around June. We have also heard that after the address to this august House, the UN Secretary-General had indicated to the former President, Dr Kaunda, in the presence of the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and Tourism, that Zambia should embrace homosexuality.


Mr Namulambe: Now, due to the fact that this issue has ignited debate in the country and the Government is silent about it, …

Hon. PF Members interjected.

Mr Namulambe: … the people are now wondering whether the Government wants to entice the technical committee of experts to include these rights regarding a person’s sexual orientation in the draft Constitution. Is the Government in order to remain silent without stating whether or not it supports homosexuality? I need your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Speaker: Order! I have been following very closely this subject as it has evolved and occupied a rather central place in our national discourse. My following of events reveals that, in fact, the hon. Minister responsible for the information portfolio issued a statement confirming that, as matters stand, the Zambian laws, in fact, criminalise homosexuality.

The Constitution-making process is not limited to the Government, it involves various stakeholders, including, and especially, the public. I think at an appropriate juncture, everybody will have an opportunity to indicate which way Zambia should go on this subject. For the time being, I can confirm that a position has been taken to the extent indicated above.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, I wish to thank the hon. Minister of Lands, Energy and Water Development for his ministerial statement. I also wish to find out whether it is true that the OMCs are working in protest because ever since the PF took over power, the kwacha has lost value, it is now over K5000 against the dollar. The oil business is transacted in dollars and the PF Government saw it fit to reduce the prices. Is it not true that the OMCs are protesting against the depressed prices?

Mr Yaluma: Hon. Siliya, thank you for that information. I take note of it because I have never come across it. However, I do not think that the OMCs are protesting due to what you have stated. The source of this crisis, in Mansa, purely to our knowledge as it is, at the moment, is the failure by Continental Oil to contribute fuel supplies to the stocks in the area. We have just requested the other OMCs to double up their fuel supplies to Mansa.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, may I request the hon. Minister to be kind enough to provide a bonus answer since my question is not about what is happening in Mansa. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what the Government’s thoughts are on the non-availability of filling stations in some places like Isoka and Mporokoso. This has been the situation for a long time now since independence.

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, I guess it is a free country, so bonus answers will always be given. As we stand, right now, the PF Government is seriously looking into ensuring that all areas in the extreme rural areas are availed with filling stations. As I speak, we have made provisions in the budget for such activities to commence. All I can say is that we are doing something about that issue.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order that hinges on the Constitution of Zambia, specifically the Inquiries Act and the security of this country.

Mr Speaker, the PF Government, at the time it was in the Opposition, had promised, during the campaigns, that once elected into power, and which has come to fruition, it would restore the Barotseland Agreement.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Immediately it assumed power, it constituted a commission of Inquiry over the Mongu Riots, amongst other issues. As regards the terms of reference that were given to this particular commission, I would like to quote from the Daily Mail of today, 1st March, 2012.

Some of the terms of reference that were given to the commission of Inquiry, which I would like to quote for this House are:

J.  The commission of Inquiry shall inquire in the current relationship between the Barotse Royal   Establishment and the Central Government to determine whether the same is conducive to the promotion of democratic governance.

K. Ascertain the concerns of the Western Province and recommend mechanisms for addressing the concerns.

Mr Speaker, this particular commission of inquiry went and sat in various towns of the Republic of Zambia and heard submissions from members of the public. After the inquiries, the commission of inquiry that was led by one gallant son of Zambia, Dr Rodger Chongwe, who was assisted by one prominent Zambian by the name of Sebastian Size Zulu, the hon. Minister of Justice, presented its report to His Excellency the President. 

Upon the presentation of that report to His Excellency the President by the commission of inquiry, he said that he was reluctant to recommend the restoration of the Barotseland Agreement. As a result of that comment, this country has been gripped with tension.

Hon. PF Members: Where?

Mr Mwiimbu: Hold on.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, this is a very serious issue. If you go through the newspapers, you will notice that, actually, the debate that has been generated is as a result of the unco-ordinated comments from the Executive which have led to the tension which I am going to refer to.

In today’s opinion of the Daily Mail, a Government mouth piece, the commission of inquiry that was led by Dr Rodger Chongwe and constituted, amongst others, the hon. Minister of Justice has been condemned for its work. To make matters worse, three days ago, the Secretary-General of the PF questioned the calibre and integrity of the commissioners who sat on that commission which included the hon. Minister of Justice.

Mr Speaker, as a result of that unprocedural and clumsy way of handling issues, it has led to all sorts of headlines being generated in the different newspapers in the country. One of the headlines I would like to refer to is in today’s Nation newspaper. Do not behave like an ostrich by trying to believe that there is no tension in this country. Today’s edition of the Nation newspaper, which I am going to lay on the Table, has an article which is headlined “Barotse Agreement Boils in Western Province.” I would like to read part of it for the benefit of those who lack independent …


Mr Speaker: Order!

I will not be able to follow the hon. Member for Monze Central if the running commentaries continue. I am sure he is also having difficulties in speaking as you run those commentaries.

Mr Mwiimbu: …yes, Sir. For the benefit of those who lack independent wisdom, I would like to read part of the article. It reads:

“Numerous high profile meetings are taking place in the Western Province to arrive at a final definitive response to the Government’s decision to reject the Barotse Agreement. This is on the heels of the recent dialogue meetings between the Government and stakeholders in a bid to finding a lasting solution to the heated issue. The outcome of the Commission of Inquiry on the Barotse Agreement of 1964 was received with mixed feelings from various sections of society in Zambia as others were in support of President Sata’s stance while others were against his pronouncement.” 

  It goes further and looks at other issues which are related to the issue.

In today’s Times of Zambia Newspaper, Thursday, 1st March, 2012, Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Justice has indicated that there is no Barotse secession in the report. In the body of his comments, he has indicated that the issues that are being raised are of very serious concern to the nation and that the commission of inquiry would not have been so careless as to recommend secession. He gave examples of what happened in Biafra, Southern Sudan and other countries as a result of similar situations. He has gone further to indicate that his commission of inquiry recommended the restoration of the Barotseland Agreement and not secession. That is his comment in the Government-run paper. 

Mr Speaker, we are aware that this particular document is still confidential. The Government of the Republic of Zambia has not sat to debate and make a decision on it. However, on the part of this unprocedural Government, it has gone ahead making comments and pronouncements which are causing tension in this country. 


Mr Mwiimbu: Is the Government in order, Mr Speaker, to be debating a document that is still confidential and has not yet been considered by Cabinet? Is the Government in order to violate the Inquiries Act? Is it in order to encourage and not defuse the tension which is going on in this country? Is the Government in order to violate the laws of the country, which were promulgated by this House, with impunity? Those colleagues and ourselves have sworn before you to protect the Constitution and all the laws which are made by this country. Therefore, are they in order to continue violating the laws and casting aspersions against the commissions of inquiry which they, themselves, have constituted and wasting money if they deem fit that those are not worthy commissions of inquiry? Is the Government in order to allow the country to be degenerating to tension almost to the point where others are now threatening to take the law in their own hands? Why should they not come to this House and allay the fears of the public pertaining to the unprincipled pronouncements that are coming from that side?  Is the Government in order to remain quiet?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Speaker:  Order!  My ruling is quite short. In terms of the Inquiries Act, the President has the power, under the Inquiries Act, to appoint a commission on any subject. The commissioners are constituted or appointed by the President and, at the end of their business, the commission is obliged, by the Inquiries Act, to render a report to the President. In the course of business, this matter is presented to Cabinet for discussion and once Cabinet has deliberated on the matter and advised His Excellency the President, a position is taken by the Government and the document is made public. It is at that point that every member of the public and all sundry actors in the polity are at liberty to debate, deliberate and comment on the subject. To that extent, obviously, it is very clear that this public ethic and procedure, in this particular instance, has not been observed ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: ... and I accordingly hope that all actors will take note and give the President and Cabinet sufficient time to reflect on the recommendations of the commission.

Thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, before the point of order was raised, I was asking the hon. Minister of Lands, Energy and Water Development whether he is aware that the shortage of fuel in Mansa District is due to illegal fuel dealers from Mansa, Samfya, Milenge, Chilubi and part of Luwingu districts who have been buying fuel in bulk for resale at K200,000 per 20 litre container of fuel. Seeing as the situation is that way, how soon is the hon. Minister intending to protect the people in these districts from being exploited by these fuel dealers?

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, hon. Minister Chisala ...

Mr Muntanga: He is an ordinary hon. Member of Parliament.

Mr Yaluma: Thank you, Hon. Muntanga. You are awake.


Mr Yaluma: I am overwhelmed that the hon. Member for Chilubi is doing his own investigations, but at the same time, he must ensure that he helps us implement serious mechanisms to stop that scourge in his area. Nonetheless, I would like to just emphasise that we have got the Ministry of Home Affairs, which is supposed to be doing the policing. I thank the hon. Member. I will pass on the information to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs. 

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, the outcome of any economic situation, sometimes, may be more complex than what meets the eye. We saw, in the 1980’s and 1990’s, shortages of various items, including fuel and mealie meal, and it was very easy to blame it on smugglers when, in fact, there were underlying causes. 

This afternoon, we have heard indications that, in fact, this problem of fuel shortage could be caused by several factors. There was the issue of hoarding, due to the depreciation of the kwacha, mentioned by Hon. Siliya and we have just heard another possible explanation. Under these circumstances, would you not agree with me that, perhaps, you should study the situation more carefully and not rush to mete out punishment because, maybe, you do not really understand what is causing the shortage? Would you not agree to postpone the issue of punishment and understand the situation further?

Mr Yaluma: Hon. Dr Musokotwane, I appreciate your input to the issue at hand. When we talked about what is happening in the petroleum chain, there were issues I discussed in my paper, one of which was that people might be diverting fuel to other destinations. Then, again, I said there were some OMCs which owe and cannot be allowed to uplift fuel from our bases. These are making arrangements with other OMCs to have products sold to them. Now, there are other possibilities that have come up from Hon. Siliya and Hon. Chisala. All those are possibilities that we must take seriously. We will look into the basket of all possibilities and come up with something tangible. Thank you for your contributions and we take note of them.

I thank you, Sir.



Mr Sianga (Sesheke): Mr Speaker, first and foremost, allow me to congratulate fellow hon. Members of Parliament for winning their election petitions. These are Hon. Kalima, Hon. Mufalali and Hon. Professor Lungwangwa.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: For a moment, I thought you were debating that.



142. Mr Sianga asked the Minister of Education, Science and Vocational Training:

(a)    whether the ministry was aware that health authorities in Sesheke District had ordered the closure of Sesheke High School effective 31st March, 2012, on account of poor sanitation;

(b)    whether the ministry was aware that ablution blocks at Sesheke Basic School, which caters for a population of more than 2,000 pupils, had been closed, thereby, compelling the school to use 2 x 2 Ventilated Improved Pit Latrines (VIPs)

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science and Vocational Training (Professor Willombe): Mr Speaker, the ministry is aware of the impending closure of the school. However, steps have been taken to address most of the issues raised in the report, which was published in 2011, in order to avoid the closure of the school and maintain a conducive learning environment. 

Mr Speaker, the ministry is also aware of the closed-down ablution block and has plans to construct a new one within the budget of 2012. 

Mr Sianga: Mr Speaker, as a concerned hon. Member of Parliament for Sesheke, I would like an assurance from the hon. Minister to the people of Sesheke Constituency on when this maintenance will start.

The Minister of Education, Science and Vocational Training (Dr Phiri): Mr Speaker, the concern by the hon. Member of Parliament is commendable and that is what we expect from hon. Members so that, in supporting us, we could deal with the many challenges in this sector. 

As the hon. Deputy Minister has indicated, the ministry was made aware of the inspection report which was generated and circulated by the Ministry of Health in October, 2011. The Ministry of Health gave us a number of recommendations and I am glad to report that most of the recommendations have been satisfied by the Ministry of Education, Science and Vocational Training.

 Furthermore, I wish to assure the hon. Member that the remaining recommendations are being addressed very aggressively. This is a boarding facility and we would not want put the lives of our children at risk. The major things done, this far, just to satisfy this august House on how far we have gone with the recommendations which were placed on us by the Ministry of Health, are the following:

(i)    the toilet pans have been replaced;

(ii)    the kitchen staff is now medically examined at prescribed intervals;

(iii)    the cooks have been provided with uniforms;

(iv)    flushing fittings have been installed in all toilets;

(v)    toilets are now frequently cleaned; and 

(vi)    sinks have been unblocked since then.

Sir, let me assure this august House that the remaining maintenance works are vigorously being pursued. They are still on-going and will continue until all the recommendations are fulfilled.

I thank you, sir.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out the real state of the ablution blocks. The hon. Deputy Minister said that the ministry is yet to build with the provision under the 2012 Budget and the hon. Minister is saying that the ministry has replaced the toilet pans. Has the ministry failed to maintain the ablution blocks? This is so because Sesheke is just among the few boarding schools that has this problem.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, there are two schools that are being presented. There is Sesheke High School, to which I replied with that elaborate explanation of what we, as a ministry, have done, and there is also Sesheke Basic School, to which the hon. Member of Parliament is making reference.
The ablution block for Sesheke Basic School was constructed in 2009. In 2010, the ministry sent money to the Provincial Education Office and the new ablution block was constructed. Unfortunately, due to the poor quality of work, the ablution block developed cracks and collapsed.

Sir, currently, the pupils are using four VIP toilets. In view of the Infrastructure Development Programme, the office of the District Education Board Secretary (DEBS) has applied for funding from the 2012 Budget. 

Mr Speaker, it is worth noting that funding, in 2010, was not provided, but I guarantee the hon. Member that the ministry will fund this project in the 2012 Budget .

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, before I proceed with the question, I would like to congratulate the hon. Minister of Health and his staff in Sesheke for observing the dire sanitation malaise at Sesheke Secondary School, thereby ordering its closure.

Sir, is the hon. Minister of Education, Science and Vocational Training, who I saw yesterday on television apologising to the students at the University of Zambia (UNZA) for, particularly, the same malaise of poor sanitation that has led to faecal matter floating at the highest institution of learning, not concerned that his colleague, the hon. Minister of Health, will order the closure of UNZA because of the same problem?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that valid observation. I will wait for an opportunity to visit all the secondary schools which were built when awisi Panji, the First Republican President, Dr Kaunda, was in power. That is a long time ago. 

Sir, all our institutions of learning, particularly boarding schools in all the provinces, are in dire need of rehabilitation. My ministry is aware of that and will be revealing a blue print on how we will proceed. However, I thank you for reminding us. Before the Ministry of Health closes the university, we must be pro-active.

I thank you, Sir.


143. Mr Mufalali asked the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock what measures had been taken to assist people whose livelihood depended on fishing, during the countrywide fish ban.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Brigadier-General Kapaya):  Mr Speaker, the measures that are taken to assist people whose livelihood depends on fishing during the countrywide fish ban include the following:

(i)    motivating fishermen through teaching to engage in fish farming aquaculture;

(ii)    encouraging fishermen, who already have fish ponds, to syncronise their harvest with the fishing ban;

(iii)    establishing sources of fingerlings in each province to ensure that stocking of fish ponds is done at the right time;

(iv)    encouraging the strengthening of linkages between fish producers, input and service providers to ensure increased fish production; and

(v)    encouraging fishermen to engage in alternative farming practices such as crop production, small livestock and poultry production as well as bee keeping, all of which can be a source of income during the fish ban.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether it is in order for fisheries officials in some districts to arrest marketers who are selling dry fish during the fish ban while they are left free in other districts.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I was trying to find out from the hon. Minister whether it is in order for fisheries officials to arrest marketers selling dry fish in some districts such as my district in Mpika while those in districts such as Chipata are left free during the fish ban.


The Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Chenda):  Mr Speaker, we do not believe in selective application of the law. During the fish ban, everybody must observe the law.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is aware that the fish ban, in as much as it is a good measure, has been failing in many areas. In my constituency, Shiwang’andu, along the Chambeshi River, it has been difficult for the fisheries to enforce the law. The Fisheries Department there is more or less non-existent. 

Sir, I would like to know whether the ministry is considering engaging the communities that live in these fishing areas so that they could be the ones to ensure that the fish stocks are preserved and taken care of.

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, we have had serious challenges in the enforcement of the fish ban. It is for this reason that we have engaged the traditional leaders, through the game management committees, to try and sensitise the people to observe the fish ban. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, is the money available for fishermen to undergo training, especially those in Senanga? The hon. Minister also indicated that there is no segregation in the enforcement of the law. Why then was there a fish ban in Senanga and not Mongu?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, I said that we do not apply the law selectively. Those who were fishing in Mongu were defying the law. We asked the law enforcement officers to ensure that the culprits were brought to book. As regards educating the fish farmers, the Government is determined to promote aquaculture in this country. As I stand before this august House, there is training that is taking place at Mwekera for fishermen from all parts of the country to train them in new methods of aquaculture. We hope that ,after they have completed this training, they will be able to go back to their respective areas and share the knowledge that they will have acquired with others so that the development of aquaculture can be well entrenched in our country.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, may I know whether the Government has any mechanism to identify people making a living out of fishing?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, fishermen are known because that is their trade. 


Mr Chenda: What other methods can you identify them by other than what they do as a means of earning a living?

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Minister for coming to this House prepared for questions. 

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, I have observed that, during the fish ban, fisheries officers mount roadblocks to confiscate fish from the people who buy it instead of arresting the people who catch it. What do they protect? 


Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, impounding of the fish that we find with people who are defying the ban is one of the measurers that act as a deterrent to those who are breaking the law. Therefore, we will continue to do this.  

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, whilst trying to educate and encourage our fish farmers to go into aquaculture, is the hon. Minister aware that, in the rural parts of this country, this education is not cemented. I am saying so because the Government officials are the ones who are discouraging people from going into fish farming. For example, there is a fish farmer by the name of Mr Oliver Mukonda who has a 10 x 10 m fish pond. This man has been waiting for the fingerlings from the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock for four months, but they have not been delivered. I spoke to him recently and he was saying that the agricultural officer is still giving him excuses. Does the hon. Minister know that the officers are discouraging the people from engaging in aquaculture activities?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, I am grateful for that information from the hon. Member for Kalabo Central. We will carry out some investigations on that issue. The official policy of the Government is to encourage aquaculture. Therefore, if there is any officer in the ministry who is not doing this, then he/she is acting against the Government policy. Consequently, necessary disciplinary action will be taken against the officer.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I am aware that the fish ban is not countrywide. The fish ban is never effected on the Kariba Dam. Why is it that fishmongers who buy fish from fishermen on the Kariba Dam and dry that fish are harassed by the fisheries officers when there is no fish ban on the Kariba Dam?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, this information has not been brought to our attention. It is true that not all waters of the country are affected by the fish ban. Therefore, all that the people have to do is prove the source of their fish. For instance, if you can prove that the fish is from Kariba Dam where there is no fish ban, then, you should be allowed to trade in your fish.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, may I know whether there are any licence fees that are paid for catching fish in any of the waters of our rivers and lakes in this country?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, there are no licence fees for fishing.

I thank you, Sir.


144. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock:

(a)    how many fish breeding centres were found in the Bangweulu Swamps and what their names were; and

(b)    what measures the Government had taken to protect:

(i)    the breeding centres; and

(ii)    the fingerlings from extinction.


Mr Speaker: Order! 

Let us listen to the hon. Minister on the Floor.

Brigadier-General Kapaya: Mr Speaker, there are no fish breeding centres on the Bangweulu Swamps. However, there are six identified main breeding areas on the Bangweulu Swamps, namely Lake Chalwe, Pamabwe, an area between Mbabala and Chishi Islands, Mbabala Lagoon, Matengo Lagoon in Chief Nsamba’s area and the confluence of the Chambeshi and Luapula rivers near Chilubi Island. 

Mr Speaker, these breeding areas were identified through local traditional structures and are yet to be gazetted by the Government.

Sir, the following are some of the measures the Government has put in place to protect the fish breeding areas as well as the fingerlings from extinction:

(i)    community sensitisation regarding the breeding areas;

(ii)    adherence by the communities to the annual closed fishing seasons during the peak breeding periods between December and February;

(iii)    routine monitoring and surveillance using land and water patrols; and

(iv)    promotion of community participation in fisheries resources management through community fisheries management structures.
I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister state the number of fishery officers his ministry intends to train, this year, with the view to prevent fingerling extinction on Lake Bangweulu.

 Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, we have highly trained officers in the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock. However, this is not to say that training should not continue. What we lack is the capacity to reach out to all areas. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that breeding areas are in shallow waters of rivers and that the purpose of the bans is for the protection of the fingerlings? Can he, further, confirm that stopping people from using mosquito nets to fish is one way of saving the fingerlings and that this calls for communities in these areas to adhere to proper fishing methods. Can the hon. Minister, please, confirm.

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, inappropriate fishing methods are definitely a big challenge in the fishing industry. Further, it is true that using mosquito nets in fishing disturbs the breeding process. 

I thank you, Sir. 


145. Mr Chisala asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock:

(a)    whether the Government had any plans to utilise the plains of Chilubi District, which cover almost 25 per cent of the entire district; and

(b)    if so, what the plans were. 

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr N. Banda): Mr Speaker, at the moment, the Government does not have any plans of utilising the plains of Chilubi District for agricultural purposes. Before any agricultural activities can be undertaken, extensive research would have to be conducted in order to determine the suitability of the land for agricultural use. Moreover, the Chilubi plains are part of the bigger Bangweulu Wetlands, which are of important environmental concern, at both the national and international level, as they provide sanctuary to various wildlife species, such as birds. Therefore, in planning to utilise the plains, serious consideration would have to be given to the same. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, the area in question has potential for agriculture. This being so, could the hon. Minister state when the research he has just talked about will be done? 

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, in our response, we stated that we do not have immediate plans. However, if the hon. Member of Parliament feels so strongly that the area has potential for agriculture, our doors are wide open. We will discuss with him and consider the issue. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


146. Mr Chitotela (Pambashe) asked the Vice-President:

(a)    how much money the Government spent on the billboards bearing the portrait of the 4th Republican President that were put up countrywide in 2011;

(b)    whether the funds in (a) above were provided for in the 2011 National Budget;

(c)    whether tender procedures were followed in awarding the contracts to put up the billboards; and
(d)    which companies were contracted to put up the billboards.

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr E.C. Lungu): Mr Speaker, according to our records, the Government did not spend any money on billboards bearing the portrait of the 4th Republican President that were put up countrywide in 2011. 

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr E. C. Lungu: Secondly, the question of whether the funds were provided for in the 2011 Budget does not arise and the same applies to the questions of whether tender procedures were followed and the companies that were contracted. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, many of these billboards or posters are an eyesore wherever they are. They have been damaged and dented, posing an environmental problem. Is there anything that the Government can do to address this problem? 
The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I think it is a new question but, for a bonus answer, I want to thank the hon. Member for the suggestion that we remove the billboards. I think that we should ask the contractors on the various projects to do the removal since they are best placed to do so because they have the equipment and are, probably, the people who paid for and put them up in the place. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, just a rider on Hon. Chitotela’s observation, what was the message behind the destruction of these billboards, countrywide, by the Zambians immediately President Michael Sata was declared winner?


Mr Speaker: Order! 

Hon. Member, could you repeat your question.

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, I wanted to know the message that was sent across the country by the destruction of these billboards immediately after President Michael Sata was declared winner. 

Hon. MMD Members: Vandalism!


The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I think the hon. Member intends this as a rhetorical question. 

I thank you, Sir. 


147. Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West) asked the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry when the Government would facilitate the construction of a shopping mall at Manyama area in Solwezi West Parliamentary Constituency. 

The Deputy Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Mukata): Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to facilitate the establishment of a shopping mall for Lumwana, which covers the Manyama area. This is to be done within the context of the Integrated Development Plan (IDP), which is being spearheaded by the Ministry of Local Government and Housing.

Sir, the IDP for Lumwana provides a plan of the entire area for different developments or land uses, including commercial, residential, industrial and office development. Although the establishment of a shopping mall in the Manyama area has been provided for, it has to be emphasised that the Government will only play a facilitator role, through the ZDA, to promote and attract private investment in the area.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for that good answer. 

Hon. Member: He has not called on you yet.

Mr Mwanza: Oh, he has not? Sorry.


Mr Mwanza: Thank you, Mr Speaker, I am overzealous because questions concerning Solwezi West Constituency are very close to my heart. I would like to thank the hon. Minister for that good answer. However, at the same time, I am getting concerned about this IDP. The question is: When will it ever be implemented?

Mr Mukata: Mr Speaker, I think that question came up yesterday. The answer is that the Government, through the Ministry of Local Government and Housing, is, actually, rolling out that IDP as part of the mechanisms for facilitating the decentralisation process; devolving services and systems to provinces and districts. So, within that plan, there is the issue of economies; to set up infrastructure in those areas. The Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry is inputting to that aspect of commercial banks as well as setting up of shopping malls.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, the area being referred to …

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised by the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for allowing me to raise a point of order which, in my view, is very important to this country. 

Before I raise my substantive point of order, please, Sir, with your indulgence, allow me to give a preamble by making reference to the Constitution of this Republic. 

On page 7, which is the preamble of the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia, at paragraph 1, it reads as follows:

“We the people of Zambia, by our representatives assembled in our Parliament, having solemnly resolved to maintain Zambia as a sovereign democratic Republic …”

Permit me, now, Sir, to define the word ‘democratic’ according to the Oxford English Dictionary. It reads as follows:

“Democracy is a system of government by the whole population or the eligible members of state, typically, through elected representatives,” ourselves.

Mr Speaker, at paragraph 2, the Constitution also states the following clearly:

“Determined to uphold and exercise our inherent inviolable right as a people to decide a point, proclaim the means and style to govern ourselves.”

Sir, I wish to draw the House to Part III of the same Constitution, which is a grand norm; a set of rules that we prepared for ourselves and this relates to protection of fundamental rights and freedoms of an individual. I will read at 11 and it says:

“It is recognised and declared that every person in Zambia has been, and shall continue to be, entitled to the fundamental rights and freedoms of the individual. That is to say the right, whatever his race, place of origin, political opinion, …

Sir, I want to emphasise the phrase ‘political opinion’

“… colour, creed, sex, marital status, but subject to the limitations contained in this part, to each and all the following namely, …”

I will skip (a) and take (b), which mentions “Freedom of conscious, expression, assembly, movement and association.”

Mr Speaker, on 10th February, 2012, in Choma, Their Royal Highnesses, regularly referred to as chiefs, recognised by this same Constitution, after the pronouncement of the transfer by Presidential decree of Chirundu and Itezhi-tezhi districts to the Lusaka and Central provinces, respectively, met at Kozo Lodge, deliberated and came up with some resolutions.


Mr Nkombo: I seek protection, Sir.

After they put the preamble… I am, actually, encouraged to read it because I think I am being disturbed, yet I wanted to save the House’s time. The preamble says:

“Acknowledging that the President of Zambia has embarked on a programme of decentralisation; noting that, under the programme, he has created districts, namely, Chirundu and Chikankata; greatly disturbed by the fact that he has decided to transfer Chirundu and Itezhi-tezhi to the Lusaka and Central provinces without consulting Their Royal Highnesses, their people and the stakeholders (Refer to preamble in the Constitution at paragraph 1); saddened by the total disregard of the earlier submission, made by the Southern Province Chiefs, of 2009 on the subject above, which was reached by consensus; and perturbed by insensitive and irresponsible threats of arrest to those who oppose the Presidential decree by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs; …”

Seated over there, Hon. Sakeni. 

“… conscious of the inalienable rights …”

These are our chiefs.

“… to belong, which rights are fortified in the teachings of the Bible in Deuteronomy 19 verse 14, Deuteronomy 27 verse 17 and Proverbs 22 verse 28 to 29, and also remembering how troubled our history is, as a region, which including paving way for the creation of the Kariba Dam and the resultant sacrifice and loss of lives; and, concerned with the reduction of the land size of the province and removal of eight Chiefs from the Southern Province, we the undersigned, outrightly reject the unilateral and ill-advised decision by the President to move even one square metre of land from the Southern Province to another. And we call upon the President to rescind his ill-advised decision to alienate or separate any part of the province forthwith. We also call upon the overzealous Minister of Home Affairs, MP, …”

In reference to Hon. Sakeni.

“… to immediately effect an arrest on the undersigned Chiefs before touching any of our subjects. We vow not to leave detention, once he has arrested them, until this matter has been resolved in their favour. This stance made by the Chiefs is non-negotiable. We are a peace-loving people defending what is rightly ours.

“Signed by Their Royal Highnesses, Chief Mukuni, Chief Chikanta, … “


Mr Speaker: Order! Let the Member finish.

Mr Nkombo:

“… Chief Nalubamba, Chief Shezongo, Chief Shimbizhi, Chief Hamusonde, Chief Monze, Chief Chona, Chief Sinazongwe, Chief Hanjalika, Chief Muyumbwe, Chief Sikongo, Chief Chipepo, Chief Simamba, Chief Nyawa, Chief Mwanachingwala, Chief Macha and Chief Chilyabufu.”


Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I am begging for protection so that I can raise the point of order in as clear a manner as possible.

Mr Speaker: I hope the left and right will follow the tradition of listening quietly when one hon. Member is on the Floor. It is unfortunate that I am getting running commentaries from both the left and right. I am seeing both sides having a taste of the same medicine. Can we maintain order.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I am indebted to you. As a result of the declaration by the chiefs, which I have just read, hon. Members of Parliament also did sit to discuss the presidential creed, at which sitting they also came up with a statement in support of the position of the royal highnesses. I shall not read this statement, but will lay it on the Table.

Mr Speaker, subsequently, individual citizens of this country from the constituency that I represent, Mazabuka, did write a letter to the Zambia Police Force which I will read. This letter sought to notify the police of their desire, as Zambian citizens, to stage a peaceful demonstration in support of the statement that was made and signed by the royal highnesses on 10th February, 2012 and the letter reads as follows:

“The Officer in Charge Mazabuka Central Police Station

Dear Madam/Sir

RE: Application for police permit for peaceful demonstration.”

Mr Speaker, before I go on, I want to take an opportunity to define the word ‘demonstration’ for ease of reference. Demonstration is an act of showing that something exists or is true by giving proof or evidence. For example, his demonstration of the need for a computer corporation language study is convincing. The dictionary says ‘showing proof’ is the definition of demonstration. The letter reads:

“We are hereby applying for the above mentioned subject that citizens of Mazabuka want to have a peaceful demonstration on Wednesday 29th February, 2012 to demonstrate over the move by the PF Government to remove Chirundu and Itezhi-tezhi districts from Southern Province to add them to Central and Lusaka provinces respectively. 

“The proceedings will start at 8 o’clock, marching from Sichone Ground, using Livingstone Road, to the District Commissioner’s Office, in recognition of the Government that exists. Thereafter, written petitions will be handed over to the District Commissioner. From there, we wish to proceed to Mazabuka Radio Station for a media briefing. We have invited all concerned citizens to give us support. This programme will start at 0830 to 1600 hours. We will be grateful if our application is considered favourably.

Yours in anticipation,”

The organisers, by name, who signed this letter are:

(i)    Glovis Mushibwe;

(ii)    Pelekelo Mwendabai;
(iii)    Wilson Chitumbo;

(iv)    Victor Haakaloba;

(v)    Mussolini Buumba;

(vi)    Rosemary Kayungwa;

(vii)    Daniel Siavuta;

(viii)    Sichoondo;

(ix)    Hamusonde;

(x)    Sheila Tindwa; and

(xi)    Marilyn Moola.{mospagebreak}

The letter was copied to the District Commissioner, Radio Mazabuka and The Post Newspaper.

Mr Speaker, in response to this very sober notice, the police, under the tutelage of the hon. Minister of Home Affairs responded in a letter which I will now read out. I do not need to go into the definition of ‘demonstration’ again, in order to show that the hon. Minister or his office may, actually, have written this document (holding up a paper). It reads:

“From Mazabuka Central Police"

“The police recognises the fundamental human rights which are clearly stated in the Zambian Constitution at part 3 which talks about the freedom of conscience, freedom of assembly etc, but you need to be aware that though we have these rights and freedoms, which are inherent in us because we value and treasure them, we should not abuse or violate them.”

This letter is from the Zambia Police and continues to state that:

“In this respect, the police are vested with powers of enforcing law and order in instances where people want to breach the peace enjoyed in the land of our country. The police cannot acknowledge your notification of this demonstration because, according to our investigations carried out so far as regards the demonstration, the organisation which has put up this notification is not known anywhere here in Mazabuka or by the Registrar of Societies, hence making it difficult to know who is in charge of this demonstration.”

You have to note that I just spent a minute to read out the names and signatures of the people who made this application.


Mr Nkombo: Mulamu, what is wrong? 

Mr Speaker, the letter goes on to say:

“We have not received any correspondence from any religious body or church within Mazabuka District to show the purported solidarity you have indicated in the letter of notification. The other part which you need to put into consideration is that the United Party for National Development (UPND), at district level, has distanced itself from the demonstration, as it is not aware of the motive behind it.”

This statement is as though the UPND was part of the decision of the police. It goes on to say:

“Moreover, the chiefs in the Southern Province are having a meeting over the same issue to come up with lasting solutions. Hence, we should wait for the honourable chiefs’ resolution to be passed.”

I will lay the resolutions being mentioned here on the Table. They were passed on 10th February, 2012. There are many parts to the letter from Hon. Kennedy Sakeni’s ministry. Another part states:

“The other part which should be taken into consideration is the issue of logistics. The police needs to prepare itself for any shortcomings on the part of manpower to cover the said meeting or demonstration, should there be eventualities arising from the demonstration. When you thoroughly scrutinise your notification, it is quite ambiguous …”

This notification is deemed ambiguous by the police.

“… in the sense that it is very difficult to determine which side you are on …”


Mr Nkombo: 

“… or your main interest in the matter of realignment as this can be exhibited by your …”

I think the police meant to say ‘unpalatable’ but they wrote ‘palatable’.

“… your palatable language on your fliers, where you stated, clearly, that your motto is ‘say no to dictatorship’.”

I want to define ‘dictatorship’.


Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I will just paraphrase what I am reading here. According to this same dictionary, dictatorship is a government by a dictator. This dictator has absolute authority in any sphere where no one says no to the decisions made.

Mr Speaker, I continue to read the police’s notice.


Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the letter continues to say:

“The motto is saying, no to dictatorship. A point that is more difficult to understand in ascertaining your interest whether you are advocating to bring hatred, contempt or excite disaffection against the Government of the day, establish law or further that, maybe, you are trying to promote feelings of ill-will or hostility between different communities or some different parts of our community leaving here in Mazabuka.”

Finally, on the letter from the police, it said that when notifying the police, in future, you need to keep yourself abreast of the ever changing laws because our laws change and are repealed everyday.


Mr Nkombo: I am connecting the next point to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs. The letter urged the people to notify the hon. Minister of Home Affairs in writing of their wish to see him if they were not happy with the response.

Mr Speaker, the concerned citizens responded to the police in the spirit of dialogue and in a bid to move in one accord. I will just take an extract of what the concerned citizens …

Mr Kambwili interjected.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, Hon. Kambwili is talking to me when I am addressing you, I need your protection.

Mr Speaker: You are on the Floor, but bear in mind that there is a need to get quickly to the point of order. You have, obviously, referred to a lot of materials, which I will no doubt direct my mind to. I presume you will present all the materials to me so that I can take everything into account when making my ruling.

Mr Nkombo: Much appreciated, Sir. 

In this regard, the concerned disappointed citizens did write a letter to acknowledge the letter that the police wrote. Let me take this opportunity to state that oppressed people normally rise sometimes. I will simply quote the last bit since you will read this document at a certain point. At part (d) of their response, they said:

“It is, therefore, resolved that we will go ahead with the demonstrations as earlier planned on the said date, but, of course, we still need police protection.” 

Signed by the same individuals.

Mr Speaker, is Hon. Sakeni and his Government in order to use police to deny citizens their fundamental freedoms and rights to express their views in solidarity with their royal highnesses whereby they even indicate their names and addresses in order to show their disapproval of the unplanned ill-advised move to realign the districts of Chirundu and Itezhi-tezhi? I seek your serious ruling and I will lay these documents on the Table.

Mr Nkombo laid the paper on the Table.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member has, obviously, referred to a lot of documents, which I need to peruse. I will give the ruling in due course.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, going by the answers the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry has been giving, starting from yesterday, I wonder if this PF Government has any policy on MFEZs.

Mr Kalaba: On a point of order, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: On who?

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this chance to raise this very substantive point of order bordering on the sovereignty and integrity of this country.

Mr Speaker, in today’s Daily Mail, Hon. George Kunda, SC., the former Vice-President, has alleged that during the recent visit of the United Nations (UN) Secretary-General to this country, he had complained to the UN Chief saying that the PF Government is, actually, persecuting the MMD leaders.


Mr Speaker: Order!

Just a moment ago, somebody on the left was complaining that he could not be heard because of the commentaries. Now, I have to move on to the right and protect the other hon. Member who also wants to raise a point of order.

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, what Hon. Kunda, SC. said is on page 2 of today’s Daily Mail, under the headline “MMD COMPLAINS TO UN OVER PERSECUTION OF ITS LEADERS.” 

I will quote Mr Kunda, SC. in this article: 

“Mr Kunda, SC. told journalists that the MMD leaders explained the human rights situation in the country to Mr Ban. He said the MMD told Mr Ban how former ministers and former ruling party leaders have been subjected to alleged illegal searches and abuse by the police service. There has been brutalisation of our membership after the September 20th election. There has also been destruction of property and this kind of retribution and vengeance is not good for the country.”

Mr Speaker, is Hon. Kunda, SC. in order to ignore the fact that the PF Government is simply following the rule of law and implementing it to the letter? When you look at the issues that most of these people are being investigated over, you will realise that they include issues such as the dubious sale of the Zambia Telecommunications Corporation (ZAMTEL) Limited …

Mr  Mulenga: Kabolala!

Mr Kalaba: … by Hon. Siliya, which was not in order.

Ms Siliya: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order!

That is a point of order. How do we have another point of order?


Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Bahati, please, get to your specific point of order.

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, there are investigations going on regarding ZAMTEL, which was sold dubiously. The burying of money underground is also under investigation, right now, as well as the issue of bicycles. All these are issues that this competent Government is investigating. Is Hon. Kunda, SC., therefore, in order to dent Zambia’s integrity and sovereignty by alleging that this Government is abusing its own citizens? Is he in order to mislead the UN Chief in such a manner? I need your very serious ruling on this.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I will similarly reserve the ruling.

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, before those two points of order were raised, I was about to ask a supplementary question to the main question raised.

Ms Siliya: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, the tradition of Parliament, which has been around for a long time, is that there are rules about those that are brought into the discourse unnecessarily. Now, is the hon. Member of Parliament of Bahati who raised a point of order, himself, in order to display such ignorance, by first of all, accusing me, as Hon. Dora Siliya, of having sold ZAMTEL when he is in the Government and can check the facts? 

Secondly, is he in order to allege that Hon. Kunda, SC. is denting the image of the country when all he did on behalf of the MMD is to bring out the irregularities which the hon. Member of Parliament for Mazabuka Central has already demonstrated? Is he in order to display such ignorance?

Mr Speaker: Order! I have already indicated that I have reserved my ruling.

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to pursue my supplementary question arising from the question posed by the hon. Member for Solwezi West who wanted to know when the Government, through the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, will facilitate the construction of a shopping mall at Manyama area in Solwezi West Constituency. In view of the fact that the Manyama area being referred to is in the same area as Lumwana Copper Mine, which has applied to be considered as an MFEZ, I would like to find out whether this shopping mall in the MFEZ will enjoy duty free and tax free status and whether, in turn, those people going to shop from that shopping mall will be buying things cheaply?

Mr Mukata: Mr Speaker, I think the hon. Member is way ahead of himself because those are just mechanisms in terms of incentives that a particular investor might want to enjoy. The Government will facilitate, through the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA), and particular investors that will be interested to invest in that particular area could, then, approach the Government for particular incentives. So, until then, I think, he could, perhaps, exercise some patience and wait. The domain of investment in the commercial sense, really, is within the sphere of the private sector. The Government will merely facilitate, but it is open for all the people to invest by approaching the ZDA, which facilitates on behalf of the Government and negotiates on whatever incentives that can be rolled out to set out a shopping mall.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister earlier referred to Integrated Development Plans (IDPs), to which he says his ministry has an input. Since the IDPs are being spearheaded by the Ministry of Local Government and Housing and his ministry is one of those that have an input, are there time lines attached to these IDPs?

Mr Mukata: Mr Speaker, development is a process. Whatever facilities that are likely to come in the area, be it commercial banks or shopping malls, it is a rolled out chain. The Government, through the ZDA, facilitates, for instance, through initiatives such as one-stop shops and advertises to open up these areas to investment. The Ministry of Local Government and Housing provides an organised platform that will, then, upload onto this platform these initiatives to avoid a hodgepodge manner of developing these areas. It has to be organised. Development has to be implemented in an organised fashion which will provide for secondary facilities such as environment, water and sanitation. 

The hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing mentioned some of the issues to do with the challenges they face, for instance, in pollution. So, it is that platform that takes into account other issues to do with environment security, for instance, that the Ministry of Local Government and Housing will provide and, then, respective ministries will come on board and inject the aspect of their interest.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Deputy Minister who is responding well and showing quality from the MMD.


Mr Ntundu: The hon. Deputy Minister said that investors are at liberty to approach the Government. Are there no incentives that are deliberately set by the Government to ensure that investors enjoy these incentives? 

Mr Mukata: Mr Speaker, there are policy frameworks for attracting investment. In fact, I would like to invite the hon. Member to visit the ZDA website which gives a bouquet of various sectors in which would-be investors could, perhaps, gain interest. There is also legislation in terms of incentives. I am sure the hon. Member was part of the hon. Members that enacted that into law. There are incentives under the Zambia Development Agency Act which are offered to investors in particular sectors, also depending on levels of investment. So, the Government, basically, through the ZDA, is providing a facilitative role. However, that does not stop persons who hitherto might be interested to go on their own to invest by putting up a shopping mall. I am sure, from his gratuity, the hon. Member for Solwezi West might want to put up a shopping mall. We will not stop him from doing that. However, we are quite ahead in facilitating that role because to invite investment is the role of our ministry.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Mulusa (Solwezi Central): Mr Speaker, when a government does not have a plan or is not going to act, it tends to be general in the way it responds to questions. The question ...

Mr Chisala: Witchcraft.

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, I seek protection from the hon. Member who always talks about witchcraft.

Mr Speaker: Please, proceed with your question.

You may continue.


Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, I see that witchcraft has got no fear for authority. 


Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister should give a specific answer. It is not about the Government having a programme to roll out the IDP to all over the country, but we are talking about Manyama area, which has experienced ...

Mr Speaker: Order! What is your question?

Mr Mulusa: … inward migration of people as a result of the mines that have been opened up hence inconveniencing them. When is the ministry going to roll out the IDP to Manyama because it is a patient now? When are you going to treat it? Do not talk about the programme you have for the entire country. If you do not have a programme, tell us.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Sichinga): Mr Speaker, for the benefit of both the hon. Members of Parliament for Namwala and Solwezi, I wish to advise that, last November, this ministry had been in Solwezi to do just the issues that they are raising. We have responded to a specific question with specific answers. The answers are that in the IDP, which seeks to provide a framework within which planning and implementation can be done, there will be an MFEZ. The MFEZ will provide for the construction of malls, including shopping malls, and other facilities. This ministry has already done that. This Government has already undertaken that within the period of five months that it has been power. 

The next issue is that, within the MFEZs, different investors can come and identify the kind of investment they wish to make and there is a law providing for those incentives. Under the Zambia Development Agency Act, you are entitled to certain provisions and incentives. However, by an application which is called an IPPA, you can invoke those provisions. So, what we are saying is that there is an IDP which is a framework to develop a particular area. As a ministry, we are contributing to that because the IDP is being handled under the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. We have, then, gone ahead and inspected what needs to be done, including the MFEZ, and as far as our role is concerned, we will promote investment, including that of a shopping mall. 

Mr Speaker, this is what the ministry has already done and we have responded more than adequately to the question that has been raised. I trust that this matter has been put to rest now. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kazabu (Nkana): Mr Speaker, let me take advantage of the question asked by the hon. Member of Parliament for Solwezi West, since the question deals with the development of shopping malls. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Commerce Trade and Industry what measures the ministry is taking to prevail on the developers of a shopping mall in Kitwe, specifically at the Freedom Park, which has been under construction for more than two years now. I ask because the people of the Copperbelt in general and Kitwe, in particular, have yearned for a decent shopping facility for a long time.

Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, that question is quite new, but I will give a bonus answer to the hon. Member of Parliament for Nkana. As soon as he gives us a question specifying the issues that he has raised, we will give a response. However, in general, we have been approached about developments on the Copperbelt, and Kitwe in particular, and one of the things that we have done is that we have, in fact, visited the MFEZ that is in Chambishi and have gone ahead and allowed those that want to invest in that area to proceed on the basis of the IPPAs. 

As soon as the hon. Member of Parliament can provide us with those details, we will provide an appropriate answer that deals, specifically, with Kitwe. 

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Kalima (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, considering the answer by the hon. Deputy Minister about deliberate incentives and the question from Hon. Kakoma, can the hon. Minister answer whether they have any incentives lined up for the mall without being approached?

Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, I thought that the hon. Member of Parliament was listening to what I said. However, for her benefit, I will repeat the message we gave. Under the Zambia Development Agency Act, there are provisions which provide specific incentives. However, the incentives operate like a switch. Electricity can be provided, but for the light to come on, you must turn the switch on. Therefore, to enjoy the incentives, you must invoke those provisions by the use of an IPPA. As soon as the person who is developing the mall approaches us, we will look at their requirements and invoke the provisions of the law. I hope that answers the question by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kasenengwa.


148.    Mr Mwanza asked the Minister of Information, Broadcasting and Labour:

(a)    how many people were employed in both formal and informal sectors in the country as of 30th  June, 2011; and 

(b)    what practical measures the ministry has taken to facilitate the creation of jobs by the private sector

The Deputy Minister of Information, Broadcasting and Labour (Mr Mbulu): Mr Speaker, comprehensive and up to date statistics on the labour force are currently unavailable. The latest Quarterly Employment and Earnings Enquiry (QEEE) was conducted by the Central statistical Office (CSO), in 2009, and this shows that the number of workers in the formal sector as at 30th June, 2009, was 671,246. However, as you know, the ZDA recorded significant Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) in between 2009 and 2011. So, the figure ought to be higher than 671, 246. 

Mr Speaker, regarding informal sector employment, the latest figures available are from the National Labour Force Survey which was conducted in 2008 by the CSO in conjunction with my ministry. This revealed that there were 4.1 million workers employed in the informal sector.

Mr Speaker, the Government has prioritised the programme to improve the management of labour market statistics. We have held meetings with the CSO to discuss ways of how to collect comprehensive statistics on a regular basis. We shall ensure that both the quarterly and national labour force surveys are conducted regularly. Currently, preparations for the next nationwide labour force survey have reached an advanced stage and we plan to commence data collection in June, 2012.

Mr Speaker, the Government has taken the following practical measures to facilitate the creation of jobs by the private sector: 

(i)    investing more resources in the agricultural, tourism and manufacturing sectors because of their high potential for job creation;

(ii)    investing more resources in the infrastructure (i.e) public works programmes, building roads and schools to create more jobs for low skilled workers;

(iii)    as the hon. Member must be aware, through the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, abolishing  the 40 per cent corporate tax rate for the banks and allow them to pay standard 35 per cent corporate tax to make banks more liquid and facilitate low cost borrowing by enterprises;

(iv)    improving the investment climate through the amendment of employment and labour laws that contribute to the creation of the right environment for investment and labour laws that contribute to the creation of the right environment for investment, private sector development and growth of micro, small and medium enterprises;

(v)    allocating more resources to education and skills development and providing support to youth that desire self-employment;

(vi)    developing an apprenticeship programme that will ensure that our youth gain experience that will make them employable;

(vii)    resuscitating Public Employment Exchange Services (PPES) which play a crucial role in linking job seekers to prospective employers; and 

(viii)    improving funding of programmed such as skills surveys labour force surveys and general labour market information management. Without a strong labour market information system, it is not possible to match skills supply and labour market demands.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, what the hon. Member has mentioned are issues that the ministry plans to undertake. What the people of Solwezi West and I want to know are measures taken to ensure that the people of Solwezi West get a share of the cake of this development.

Mr Mbulu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member must appreciate that Solwezi is the microcosm of the larger Zambian society. As a Government, we plan on a broader scale. As we go on unfolding our programmes, obviously, Solwezi will not be an exception. It will be catered for at an appropriate time.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, the PF Government came into power with a very strong message that it would provide jobs on a massive scale, especially for the youths, so that, within ninety days, all of them would have jobs. I would have imagined that to back up that desire, the Government would have more concrete plans. 

Would the hon. Minister agree that the issues of infrastructure that he mentioned, brought about by the MMD, and the issue of the investment climate also brought about by the MMD, which is now being messed up, in spite of this promise that was made, actually, means that the promise was empty because nothing tangible has been put in place to create jobs?

Mr Mbulu: Mr Speaker, I would not agree with Hon. Dr Musokotwane. I think what will be more regrettable in the House is to be polarised. I think it is important for us to exercise a lot of flexibility in the manner we approach national issues. 

We admit that as a Government, we hold positions in perpetual succession. Leaders come and go, but the bottom line is that programmes must continue.  That is why we have embarked on a serious programme to do the tarring of roads that were left in a mess by the previous Government. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulu: Mr Speaker, we will not relent, but continue building on until such a time when Zambian people appreciate that there is quality.

I thank you, Sir

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya (Petauke): Mr Speaker, going by the answer given by the hon. Minister, in response to the question by Hon. Dr. Musokotwane, can he, then, take this opportunity to share with the House and the nation the levels of jobs created, particularly in the last five months, and in which sectors.


Mr Mbulu: Mr Speaker, again, it is quite regrettable that my sister, Hon. Siliya, can attempt to ask that new question. However, it must also be understood that I have been quite categorical in the manner I have been answering questions. We should appreciate the work that is being done. Some information has already been made available, but this is a continuous process. Day in and day out, we are updating our records. Obviously, at an appropriate time, we will be able to avail Hon. Siliya with the right information.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister indicate how much is expected to be invested in agriculture and tourism or how much the Government plans to invest for it to create employment.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister of Information, Broadcasting and Labour.

Mr Shamenda stood up.

Mr Mbulu: Sorry hon. Minister, I will take it up.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulu: Mr Speaker, it is quite unfortunate because, only early this year, the Budget was presented and everybody knows that …


Mr Mbulu: Mr Speaker, can I be protected?

The hon. Member knows very well that these things are provided for in the Yellow Book. So, I do not know whether the hon. Member has not been able to look at the provisions in the Yellow Book. This information is available.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that, in fact, the PF Government is committed to creating employment as per its manifesto except that it has a lot of work to do to ensure that all the monies that had been stolen by some individuals is brought back to the Treasury.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Information, Broadcasting and Labour (Mr Shamenda): Mr Speaker, I would like to confirm that as per the PF Manifesto and campaign, we are doing our best. We pay tribute to our security officers who are busy looking for people who have introduced new underground banking methods …


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shamenda: … and those who were using Government resources to buy 1,200 bicycles for one individual.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shamenda: All this money will go a long way in investing in infrastructure so that we create employment for our citizens.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, issues of labour are very sensitive matters. May I know how our workforce has been affected by the very fact that the people who were responsible for them were, actually, the ones who were burying money? How has this affected our workforce?


Mr Speaker: Order! 

Hon. Members, let us maintain order in the House. That is why we are called honourable. We have to act honourably.

Mr Shamenda: Mr Speaker, it is sad that this Government inherited a system which had resources meant for the creation of jobs in order to create jobs misdirected to a few individuals’ pockets, but whose pockets were too small. As a result, they were digging trenches to keep the money in.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shamenda: Mr Speaker, in that vein, I would like to confirm that this resulted in the negative creation of employment in our country. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, it is quite clear that the PF Government has failed to create jobs in the past ninety days.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: Given an extra ninety days, how many jobs can it create?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shamenda: Mr Speaker, we explained how painful and difficult it was to find statistics in our ministry. So, we have embarked on recruiting experts to help us clear the mess. We have approached the International Labour Organisation (ILO) which will help us on how we can clean the mess which we found at the Ministry of Labour. As a result, the headquarters and ministry have been turned into a labour department where we are now resolving problems which were left by the previous regime.

Mr Speaker, in five months, we have established a committee with the Bank of Zambia (BOZ), Central Statistical Office (CSO) and the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to take an audit of what skills we have in our country so that we can liaise with the Ministry of Education, Science and Vocational Training and other training institutions and skills which are coming from these training institutions can be absorbed. 

Mr Speaker, if I can take advantage of this question, I would like to mention that we have just discovered that there are some skills which are in abundance when we have a lot of unemployed graduates. Due to poor planning by those who were sitting here before us, we have a good number of expatriates who are filling up the gap of the skills which we do not have. So, give us another nine days, my sister, Hon. Lubezhi, we shall be able to give you the proper statistics. You will agree with me that in some offices, there are no computers. So, I do not know whether some of the statistics which we might be giving you are correct or not because we inherited them. We are just cleaning up. 

Sir, I would like to assure this august House that we shall approach each one of the hon. Members of Parliament and look at the projects which they have in their constituencies. That is why we are decentralising. You know the issues better than the people who are in Lusaka. Jobs are in the constituencies and we shall look forward to working with you in order to create employment for our citizens.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, I am very shocked with the statistics that are given by the hon. Deputy Minister of Information, Broadcasting and Labour. He told us about the 4.1 million informal jobs that are out there. Please, allow me to do a bit of deductive reasoning here. The population of this country is 13 million and 92 per cent of these are aged below fifty. Forty-four per cent of those are aged between fifteen and thirty-nine and that gives about 5.6 million people. If we have 4.1 million informal jobs plus 600,000, it gives us 4.7 million jobs. Looking at the dependence ratio; that is one salary and how many people it feeds, it means that we would not have incidences of poverty in this country. The question is, what methodology was used to arrive at the 4.1 million informal jobs? Secondly, can you break it down into sectors where those 4.1 million jobs are so that we can, at least, see them? If this is beyond you, then you should keep quiet.


Mr Shamenda: Mr Speaker, I wish the hon. Member of Parliament could have found time to discuss with some of his neighbours (MMD members) who, instead of creating jobs, were doing other things. We are here now. As early as November, there was no money to put in anybody’s pocket because the money was buried underground.


Mr Shamenda: Mr Speaker, we discussed with the ILO …

Mr Mulusa indicated on a point of order.


Mr Kambwili: You cannot ask a question and rise on a point of order. That is abuse of Parliament. Ala!


Mr Shamenda: … as early as November, the high levels of unemployment. As I said earlier, we have advertised for a consultant to help us create jobs, particularly for the youths. This month, we are organising a seminar with the International Monetary Fund (IMF), ILO, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning and Bank of Zambia. I hope we can find one of the experts from your left who can also join us during this seminar. We are going to have a workshop where we are going to look at how financial institutions can help us create employment, particularly for the youths. 

Mr Speaker, when we talk about the informal sector of the economy and poverty levels, we are looking at issues of casualisation. In the PF’s Manifesto, which we put in each of the pigeon holes of the hon. Members on your left, …


Mr Shamenda: … we are not just looking at jobs, but descent jobs. I have in my office a list of some of the companies which were tolerated by the previous regime. The highest paid man in one company was getting K286,000 per month and the lowest paid was getting K12,500 per month. I said to this person that he was better off staying at home. The answer he gave was, “We have been talking about these issues, but instead of your predecessors helping us, they were coming with bags to collect money from the employers who were exploiting us.” 

Hon. Government Members: Shame!

Mr Shamenda: Mr Speaker, I would like to assure you that this has come to an end. None of our employees is going to be exploited. If we find anyone of our members involved in corrupt practices, even if the hon. Minister has got no powers, we shall have that person disciplined and dismissed. He will only be rescued by the courts. This cancer has brought about poverty.

Dr Chituwo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to discuss an issue which is in the courts of law. Is that not subjudice? He has repeatedly talked about the K2.1 billion which was buried under the ground. 

Mr Speaker, I need your serious ruling.


Mr Speaker: Order! 

In the first place, it is incompetent to raise a point of order on the hon. Minister. The hon. Minister may proceed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shamenda: Mr Speaker, this session is being chaired by you, Sir, and I thank you for your protection.

I thank you, Sir. 


149. Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma) asked the Minister of Home Affairs whether the Zambia Police Force had any plans to introduce an effective system of collecting and accounting for the fines imposed on motorists driving defective motor vehicles.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, we, as a Government, believe that there is always room for improvement to any system. The ministry does, indeed, have plans to introduce an effective system of collecting and accounting for funds collected as fines for traffic related offences. To this end, the ministry has constituted a technical committee consisting of officers from the Zambia Police Force, Road Traffic and Safety Agency (RTSA) as well as from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. The mandate of this technical committee is to study the matter in order to come up with recommendations, which the ministry will consider for implementation in the course of this year, 2012. 

Mr Speaker, I must add that, to assist the ministry in its work, the technical committee will do some benchmarking by way of undertaking a study tour to Botswana and South Africa to study how the system is managed in the two countries. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, my question was on accounting for the money that is collected at roadblocks. May I, now, know why roadblocks have been removed on the main roads in the country? We are losing our cattle because of the lack of roadblocks.

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Sakeni): Mr Speaker, the police have continued to manage the roadblocks that are essential. There is no way the police can stop manning strategic roadblocks that are aimed at fighting crime. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, arising from the hon. Minister’s response that the police have continued to mount roadblocks that are essential, would it not be prudent for this Government to publicise these roadblocks in order to circumvent, firstly, police officers, who, when they have no money in their pockets and want some, arbitrarily mount roadblocks as I noticed when I went to Mazabuka this afternoon. There were no cones, but the roadblocks were mounted. Why can they not publicise so that even those who want to wear police uniforms and pretend to be police are deterred from mounting illegal roadblocks? 

Mr Sakeni: Mr Speaker, I am very grateful for the question by my colleague. As I said earlier, we can easily publicise but, sometimes, you will find that criminals come in various forms and use various routes. The police, at times, can mount strategic roadblocks to perform a certain task at a certain point. Sometimes, even publicised roadblocks are still used for bribes. This is why we are trying to run away from the issue of motorists paying at the roadblocks. We are trying to study a programme where motorists can be given tickets and pay elsewhere. We are studying this programme with the RTSA and the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. We want to learn what is obtaining in Botswana and South Africa and other countries. We need to move forward and appreciate as well as live within the confines of the law by fighting corruption at roadblocks. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to know when the police will restore, if at all they will, the check point at Kafue Bridge, which had been mounted for years and which is supposed to offer security to, not only motorists, but also people who own property. 

Mr Speaker, when property is stolen from farms in the Southern Province, particularly cattle, thieves simply drive through this checkpoint and sell the cattle in butcheries here, in Lusaka. When will they restore that roadblock?

Mr Sakeni: Mr Speaker, I believe that the police are supposed to man roadblocks at strategic points, such as the one mentioned by the hon. Member. It is unfortunate, however, that the checkpoint has not been restored. It is almost a week now since I talked about the same checkpoint. I am sure that the police are listening because they should maintain roadblocks at strategic points so that we fight crime. Farmers, especially, addressed the issue of stock theft. The Zambia National Farmers’ Union wrote to the ministry and we responded. It is just unfortunate that our officers have not done the needful.  However, I am sure that they are listening and will do so. 
I thank you, Sir. 

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, if I heard the hon. Minister correctly, he said that they mount roadblocks in strategic places. I have driven from Ndola to Namwala and there is no roadblock. Is he telling me that there is no strategic place on this stretch?

Mr Sakeni: Mr Speaker, it is unfortunate that my sister is not hearing me correctly. I said that the police, at times, mount roadblocks at strategic points for strategic reasons. For instance, they do random checks when they want to follow up on a stolen vehicle.  All in all, they are supposed to man roadblocks at points where they critically feel that criminals can easily be nabbed, or it is a route usually used by criminals to traffic cattle, for instance, or other stolen items. The police are listening and they will continue manning roadblocks to fight crime at whatever level. 

I thank you, Sir. 


150. Mr Hamusonde asked the Minister of Commerce, Trade Industry:

(a)    whether the Government was aware that some building materials that were imported into Zambia were of sub-standard quality; and

(b)    if so, what measures were being taken to correct the situation.

Mr Mukata: Mr Speaker, the Government is aware that some building materials are of sub-standard quality and, in order to correct the situation, the ministry has developed standards for the following products to ensure that the building materials imported into the country are of quality: pressed steel door frames, carbon steel bars for the reinforcement of concrete, iron roofing sheets, electric cables, precast concrete and sand/cement blocks, asbestos, cement insulating board, cement concrete bricks and bitumen for building and civil engineering, and penetration-grade bitumen.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, I would like to know whether the Government has plans, at some point, to bring in inspectors so that, when these things come into the country, they are well inspected. 

Mr Mukata: Mr Speaker, we do have an inspectorate in place. Inspectors are out in the field. The only problem that we have is understaffing. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the Bureau of Standards officers at entry points are corrupt to the core to the point where they can even issue receipts, in certain instances, on motor vehicles. Is the hon. Minister aware of the level of corruption by the Bureau of Standards? 

Mr Mukata: Mr Speaker, obviously, this would have been looked into had the hon. Member of Parliament been in the forefront bringing this information to our attention and other relevant authorities. I am sure that the police are there in those localities. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended at 1815 hours until 1830 hours. 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]


151. Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    when the Kabanga/Mapatizya Road in Kalomo District would be tarred; and

(b)    when the following roads in Mapatizya Parliamentary Constituency would be graded:

(i)    Luyaba/Mufumba;

(ii)    Zimba/Muzya;

(iii)    Chinkoyo/Mulamfu;

(iv)    Chidi/Mafuta;

(v)    Kabanga/Siamafumba;

(vi)    Jokwe/Siejumba;

(vii)    Mapatizya Mines/Kamukeza (Malaba);

(viii)    Simalundu/Siamafumba; and

(ix)    Luyaba/Njabalombe.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Dr Mwali): Mr Speaker, the information we have at the district level is that two roads had been prioritised for tarring in the district and these are Kabanga/Mapatizya and Kalomo/Dundumwezi.

Mr Sing’ombe: Hear, hear!

Dr Mwali: Coincidently, the Kalomo/Dundumwezi Road falls under the broader project, which is the Pilot Programme for Climate Resilience (PPCR). This road will be worked on with funding from the Africa Development Bank (ADB). We appreciate that the district and province have prioritised the Kabanga/Mapatizya Road, but this has to be further considered by the Road Development Agency (RDA).

Sir, the question was on the following roads: Luyaba/Mufumba; Zimba/Muzya; Chinkoyo/Mulamfu; Chidi/Mafuta; Kabanga/Siamafumba; Jokwe/Siejumba; Mapatizya Mines/Kamukeza (Malaba); Siamlundu/Siamafumba; and Luyaba/Njabalombe. I am wondering why the hon. Member of Parliament left out Chundwe/Luyaba Road.

Mr Speaker, after consulting our local road authorities in the Southern Province, we have been informed that all these roads, although not planned for this year, will be worked on by the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) next year. This morning, the provincial Permanent Secretary and some staff from Kalomo District passed through our ministry and confirmed this information.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister say that the tarring of the Mapatizya Road will be considered by the RDA. I would like to know whether the setup that was under the MMD Government is still there, where a Committee of Ministers looking after the RDA had the final say on road projects. Is the Government, as it was under the MMD, able to instruct the RDA to tar this road because it is long overdue?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, even in the absence of an instruction from the Committee of Ministers, the RDA is very responsive to the local road authorities it is working with. They work in collaboration and listen to the priorities identified by the people on the ground. Definitely, that road will be considered.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that the roads will be upgraded, next year, but could he be kind enough to state when the Kabanga/Mapatizya and, especially, the Kalomo/Dundumwezi roads will be tarred?


Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, I mentioned that funding has been secured for the Kalomo/Dundumwezi Road as it falls under the PPCR. Advertisements went out for consultants, the bids are being evaluated and studies will commence as soon as the consultants are identified.

Mr Sing’ombe: Funding from where?

Dr Mwali: Funding from the ADB.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, I want to find out from the hon. Minister if he knows that the Rural Roads Unit (RRU), in the Southern Province, does not have the capacity to do the jobs, including in terms of manpower?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, one of the critical problems that the unit is facing is the frequent breakdown of the equipment. This is a serious hindrance, but, where the equipment is operational, the unit has performed well and we need to commend the work that it is doing.

I thank you, Sir.


152. Mr Chisala asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock how much money had been spent on trips to the following countries for international conferences by the hon. Minister and the hon. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Livestock and Fisheries Development in 2010:

(i)    the United Kingdom;

(ii)    Italy;

(iii)    Germany;

(iv)    South Africa; and

(v)    The Gambia.

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the following are the trips by the hon. Minister in the Ministry of Livestock and Fisheries Development to the named countries in 2010. To Scotland, in the United Kingdom, the hon. Minister went to attend the Commonwealth Agriculture Conference which was scheduled for 23rd June to 3rd July, 2010. This trip was partially sponsored and the ministry spent K22,752,400. 

To Italy, the hon. Minister went to attend the 65th International Dairy Cattle Show. The trip was fully sponsored by the organisation which invited the hon. Minister and was scheduled for 27th October to 1st November, 2010. The hon. Minister also attended the SOY Innovation Africa Conference in South Africa. The meeting was scheduled for 26th to 27 August, 2010 and K8,284,920 was spent on this trip by the ministry. To Banjul, Gambia, the hon. Minister went to attend the Conference of African Ministers of Fisheries and Aquaculture (CAMFA). This was scheduled for 20th to 21st September, 2010 and K4,770,000 was spent by the ministry and the trip was partially sponsored.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Member: What about Germany?

Mr N. Banda: There is nothing on Germany. So, I did not think I should mention it. On the other hand, the hon. Deputy Minister did not undertake any international trips to the said destinations during the specified period.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chisala: Sir, may I know the economic benefits that these conferences brought to Zambia.

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, these travels expose hon. Ministers to new ideas, technologies and information, which help the Government to redesign policies in order to improve productivity. Increased productivity contributes to the economy.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, is there a limit on how many times a hon. Minister is supposed to travel in a year?


Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, there is no limit. The nature of duty will determine the number of times a hon. Minister will travel.

I thank you.





The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.


The House adjourned at 1845 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 2nd March, 2012.