Tuesday, 17^th October, 2023

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

______

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM SPEAKER

PRESENCE OF PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM SHUTTLE PRIVATE SCHOOL AND LITTLE STARS PRE AND PRIMARY SCHOOL IN THE PUBLIC GALLERY

Madam Speaker: I wish to recognise the presence in the Public Gallery of pupils as well as teachers from Shuttle Private School and Little Stars Pre and Primary School, both of which are in Lusaka District.

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

I thank you.

______

MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

Madam Speaker: I have seen that many hon. Members have indicated for matters of urgent public importance and, I hope, those matters of urgent public importance qualify to be raised as such so that we do not squander time. When we were still singing the National Anthem, I saw hon. Members indicating. So, I was wondering what was happening. Anyway, the first matter of urgent public importance will be from the hon. Member for Nakonde.

MR SIMUMBA, HON. MEMBER FOR NAKONDE, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HEALTH, MRS MASEBO, ON REPORT THAT THE UNIVERSITY TEACHING HOSPITAL IS SENDING CANCER PATIENTS TO TANZANIA DUE TO BROKEN EQUIPMENT

Mr Simumba (Nakonde): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me an opportunity, on behalf of the good people of Nakonde, to raise this matter directed to the hon. Minister of Health.

Madam Speaker, yesterday, in the Daily Revelation newspaper, there was the following sub-headline: “UTH forced to refer cancer patients to Tanzania due to broken equipment.”

Madam Speaker, Zambians want to know how long that situation will happen and if the Government will assist the patients with logistics to reach Tanzania. This is a serious matter.

I seek your serious guidance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Nakonde, you are advised to file in a question of urgent nature.

MR KAFWAYA, HON. MEMBER FOR LUNTE, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF FINANCE AND NATIONAL PLANNING, DR MUSOKOTWANE, ON DEBT RESTRUCTURING

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I would like to confirm that I indicated before we sang the National Anthem. I am not one of those who were busy pressing the button when we were singing the National Anthem.

Madam Speaker, my matter of urgent public importance is directed to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Madam Speaker, today, I read in the Daily Nation newspaper the following:

   “Debt restructuring drive cheers G20 finance leaders.”

Madam Speaker, many Zambians, including myself, are now confused as to whether, as a nation, we have restructured debt or not.

Madam Speaker, you may recall that in June, this year, the nation celebrated the restructuring of debt –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, do not debate. Just raise your matter of urgent public importance.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, we celebrated the restructuring of debt in June –

Madam Speaker: I thought I guided you, hon. Member. What is the matter of urgent public importance? From what you have said so far, clearly, that matter does not qualify to be raised as a matter of urgent public importance. So, file in a question.

Is the Daily Nation newspaper now the only source of information? Everybody is quoting it. Is it factual? The hon. Member for Nakonde also got information from it.

Mr Simumba: Daily Revelation newspaper.

Madam Speaker: Daily Revelation newspaper. There are too many newspapers.

Hon. Member for Lunte, that matter does not qualify to be raised as a matter of urgent public importance. So, please, find another way of bringing that matter to the attention of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

MR MTAYACHALO, HON. MEMBER FOR CHAMA NORTH, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, MR MWIIMBU, ON REMANDEES AND CONVICTED PERSONS WHO ESCAPED FROM CHAMA POLICE STATION

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, my matter of urgent public importance is directed to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Madam Speaker, a few days ago, ten remandees and convicted persons escaped from the holding cells at Chama Police Station, and among them are dangerous individuals. As I speak, the police officers at Chama Police Station have not rearrested those ten individuals because they do not have a motor vehicle. It is important to note that there are no prison facilities in Chama. So, convicted persons and remandees are kept in the police cells until transport is available for them to be transported to Lundazi, which is 160 km away from Chama. That has raised serious concerns among the people of Chama.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to remain quiet and not assure the people of Chama of their safety following the failure by the police to arrest those individuals?

I seek your serious indulgence, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member said, “Is the hon. Minister in order?” Is it a point of order or a matter of urgent public importance? Clearly, that matter does not qualify to be raised as a matter of urgent public importance. However, since the hon. Minister is here and is smiling, maybe, he can comment on the issue.

Hon. Minister, do you want to comment on the issue?

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament raised two issues. The first issue pertains to the police officers in Chama North not having transport to undertake their operations. The other one is on the escaping of convicts from cells. I will comment on the issue of transport.

Madam Speaker, unlike the failure of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government to provide vehicles for the police officers in Chama North, the hon. Member’s constituency, the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government has already bought motor vehicles for the Zambia Police Service …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: … and the vehicles are being registered.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The matter raised by the hon. Member for Chama North did not qualify to be raised as a matter of urgent public importance. I just allowed the hon. Minister to respond so that the hon. Member could get a response immediately. I did not know that it would get to the extent of who did what.

MR LUBOZHA, HON. MEMBER FOR CHIFUBU, ON HER HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT, MRS NALUMANGO, ON HOUSES IN CHIBUFU DAMAGED BY A STORM

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Lubozha: Madam Speaker, my matter of urgent public importance is directed to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, at the weekend, there was a storm that left over forty houses in Chifubu Constituency damaged, with roofs blown away. As at now, the people do not have where to sleep. It is a very sad situation because most of the people’s property was damaged. So, I am appealing to Her Honour the Vice-President, through the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), to come to the aid of the people in Chifubu before lives are lost. I know that as the mother of the nation, she has a good heart and she will consider the people in Chifubu, who are suffering.

I seek your indulgence, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chifubu, you know the procedure to follow when there is such a situation. I remember that last week, the hon. Member for Zambezi East talked about a hospital whose roof had been blown off. This is the rainy season and such things are bound to happen. Instead of waiting to raise the issue on the Floor of this House, I encourage you to engage the Office of the Vice-President and the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) so they can come to the aid of those people.

Please, hon. Members, do not wait to raise such matters on the Floor of the House because when you do, you do not justice to the people you represent. I am sure, the Office of the Vice-President has an opendoor policy.

Hon. Member for Chifubu, have you engaged the Office of the Vice-President?

Mr Lubozha indicated dissent.

Madam Speaker: You have not. See. You can engage the Office of the Vice-President, and you will be assisted.

MR MUKOSA, HON. MEMBER FOR CHINSALI, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF FINANCE AND NATIONAL PLANNING, DR MUSOKOTWANE, AND THE HON. MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT, MR NKOMBO, ON ALLEGED UNEVEN DISBURSEMENT OF CONSTITUENCY DEVELOPMENT FUND

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, I rise on a matter of urgent public importance directed to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development.

Madam Speaker, Chinsali and other constituencies in the northern region and other places received K7.5 million to K7.7 million of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), yet our friends in the Southern Province and the Western Province received more than K16 million.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, we are in danger. I plan to go to the constituency at the weekend, and the people of Chinsali have warned me, and have threatened to harm me because they think that I have been doing nothing while other hon. Members have been getting their CDF allocations.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Kambita: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Zambezi East, hold on.

Mr Kambita resumed his seat.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chinsali, I think, the whole of last week, this issue was debated on the Floor of this House.

Mr Mukosa remained upstanding.

Madam Speaker: You may resume your seat.

Mr Mukosa resumed his seat.

Madam Speaker: This issue was raised in this House, and we heard why certain things are happening. It was bound to an activity. If you followed the debate, you heard that. In any event, that issue does not qualify to be raised as a matter of urgent public importance. Find another way to raise it. Also, engage the hon. Ministers. I know that the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development is very approachable. Have you discussed with him? Discuss and see how best you can tackle this issue.

Hon. Members, you are always talking about the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), breaching Standing Order No. 67. So, the hon. Member should find another way of raising that matter.

MR J. E. BANDA, HON. MEMBER FOR PETAUKE CENTRAL, ON HER HONOUR THE VICE-PREIDENT, MRS NALUMANGO, ON THE PRICE OF MEALIE MEAL

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity, on behalf of the good people of Petauke Central, to raise a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam Speaker, before I do that, let me first thank the Leader of Government Business in the House, Her Honour the Vice-President, for the good job she has done in subsidising mealie meal. I was one of those who –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Petauke Central!

Please, do not introduce extraneous issues as you raise your matter of urgent public importance. Just raise the matter. If you have a word for Her Honour the Vice-President, you can approach her and have a chat with her, and congratulate her for whatever you believe has been done. Please, let us revert to work.

Mr J. E. Banda: Her Honour the Vice-President, good afternoon.

Madam Speaker, the matter is directed to Her Honour the Vice-President under Standing Order No. 134. The good people of Petauke Central guided me that the matter I raise should require the immediate attention of the House and the Government, and this matter is on those lines.

Madam Speaker, last week, the New Dawn Government announced that it had reduced the price of mealie meal, and I am on record saying that my people in Petauke Central do not have food.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Petauke Central!

Clearly, that matter does not qualify to be raised as a matter of urgent public importance.

Mr J. E. Banda remained upstanding.

Madam Speaker: Please, resume your seat.

Mr J. E. Banda resumed his seat.

Madam Speaker: As I said, the matter you are raising does not qualify to be raised as a matter of urgent public importance. If you want to know whether the price of mealie meal has been reduced, file in an ordinary question.

MR FUBE, HON. MEMBER FOR CHILUBI, ON SHORTAGE OF MAIZE IN SOUTHERN AFRICAN DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY

Mr Fube (Chilubi): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me an opportunity, on behalf of the people of Chilubi, to raise a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam Speaker, of late, there have been reports in the international media as well as the local media to the effect that in the Southern African Development Community (SADC) region, there is a shortage of maize and maize products. That being the case, there are fears that –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

From what you have said, I can guess where you are going. Clearly, that matter does not qualify to be raised as a matter of urgent public importance.

The hon. Member for Bweengwa may take the Floor.

Mr Fube: People are getting GMOs (Genetically Modified Organisms)!

Hon. Government Members: Sit down!

MR MICHELO, HON. MEMBER FOR BWEENGWA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF FISHERIES AND LIVESTOCK, MR CHIKOTE, ON OUTBREAK OF ANTHRAX

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Bweengwa!

May you resume your seat.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chilubi, I guided you, but I heard you shout something about GMOs (Genetically Modified Organisms). If you are alleging that there are GMOs, you know what the Standing Orders provide for. When you are raising a question, the question should not be argumentative, and it should not bring in facts that cannot be verified. If you have concerns about GMOs, do your ground work and get more information so that when you raise the question, you have evidence to prove that what you are saying is the truth. A question based on allegations and assumptions will not be admitted in accordance with our Standing Orders.

The hon. Member for Bweengwa may proceed.

Mr Michelo: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to rise on a matter of urgent public importance directed to the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock.

Madam Speaker, I think, you are aware that Monze District has the highest number of cattle in the country, followed by Kalomo, Choma and Namwala. However, there is a suspected anthrax outbreak in Monze District, in particular, Bweengwa Constituency. It has also been confirmed that there is anthrax in Sinazongwe and Kazungula. The disease also affects humans and spreads so quickly that it can wipe out the entire livestock population in the country if it is not curtailed as soon as possible.

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious indulgence on this matter.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Bweengwa, you are advised to file in a question of urgent nature.

MR CHEWE, HON. MEMBER FOR LUBANSENSHI, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HEALTH, MRS MASEBO, ON MEASURES PUT IN PLACE TO ENSURE SAFE DELIVERY IN HOSPITALS

Mr Chewe (Lubansenshi): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Chewe: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity, on behalf of the people of Lubansenshi, to raise a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam Speaker, as I am raising this matter, I am really aggrieved because the people of Lubansenshi are mourning. Last week, we buried a lady who died during childbirth. The people of Lubansenshi and Luwingu districts, and other constituencies would like to know the measures the Ministry of Health is putting in place to ensure that pregnant women are safe when they deliver at hospitals. In this case, the pregnant women in my constituency are asking how protected they are when they are in the hands of doctors, because others have died after delivery. Could the hon. Minister of Health assure the people of Lubansenshi that the Government will ensure that comes to an end.

I seek your indulgence, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Lubansenshi, you will recall that last week, the hon. Member for Kalabo Central asked a similar question, and it came in as an ordinary question. So, since you have a concern regarding your constituents, you can file in an ordinary question, and the hon. Minister of Health will answer it.

My assessment is that, as hon. Members, we have lost track of what qualifies to be a matter of urgent public importance because all the nine matters that have been raised do not qualify to be raised as matters of urgent public importance. So, let us familiarise ourselves with the criteria provided in the Standing Orders for a matter to be raised as a matter of urgent public importance.

We make progress.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

SETTING UP OF A SOLAR PLANT IN KANCHIBIYA DISTRICT

106. Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Energy:

1. whether the Government has any plans to set up a solar plant in Kanchibiya District in order to enhance electricity supply to the district and surrounding areas;

1. if so, when the plans will be implemented;

1. what the estimated cost of the project is; and

1. if there are no such plans, what alternative measures are being taken to resolve the energy challenge in the area.

The Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala): Madam Speaker, to answer the four questions, the Government has no immediate plans to set up a solar plant in Kanchibiya District.

Madam Speaker, based on the response to part (a) of the question, part (b) of the question falls off.

Madam Speaker, the estimated cost of the project can only be established after a feasibility study for the development of a solar power plant has been undertaken.

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the Government has been addressing the challenge of electricity in Kanchibiya District by undertaking projects that connect the communities in the district to the national electricity grid. In 2022, the Government, through the Rural Electrification Authority (REA), implemented the Copper Grid Intensification Project with a high voltage length of 2.7 km and a medium voltage length of 15.6 km at a cost of K13.4 million. The project is now complete.

Madam Speaker, under the 2023 work plan and budget, REA is implementing another project in Kanchibiya District called Mutwe Walupwa with a high voltage length of 5.5 km and a medium voltage length of 4.5 km at a cost of K5.5 million. The contractor has already mobilised and works have since commenced. The Government, therefore, encourages all residents in those areas to make applications for electricity supply from ZESCO Limited so that they can start benefitting from the two infrastructure.

Madam Speaker, let me give additional information for clarity. ZESCO Limited has planned for solar PV power generation plants across the country. The solar plants are grid-scale plants that would inject power into the national grid for general supply, as opposed to mini-grids targeting particular customers. Therefore, the people of Kanchibiya Constituency will have access to the power generated from the various solar PV plants under these plans. Further, the ministry is in the process of proposing a policy adjustment to the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) that will see low income customers in rural areas pay connection fees over a period of eighteen months, instead of the current twelve months, after they pay the initial 50 per cent against the quotation. The subsidy was sponsored by the World Bank, and customers were asked to pay K250. The Government, through REA, reimbursed ZESCO Limited US$181 per connection, and is currently in discussion with the World Bank to implement a new project called the National Energy Access and Transformation (NEAT) worth US$60 million, which is expected to reintroduce a subsidy component to connection in 2024.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Before we have supplementary questions, there was an indication for a point of order by the hon. Member for Lunte.

A point of order is raised.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, my point of order is based on Standing Order No. 65, and is on the hon. Minister of Energy, who is just from responding to a question.

Madam Speaker, on today’s Order Paper, there are five questions, and one question is directed to the hon. Minister who was on the Floor of the House.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister misled us by saying that he was answering four questions when, in fact, he was only answering one.

Madam Speaker, I am aware that he and I come from a region where there is mental poverty, but he does not have that problem.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Lunte!

Do you have to talk about that?

Laughter

Mr Kafwaya remained upstanding.

Madam Speaker: You may resume your seat.

Mr Kafwaya resumed his seat.

Madam Speaker: There are some intellectual concepts that we need to get used to. The hon. Minister meant that under the question, there were several parts. So, I do not think that is a matter of poverty of the mind. He was just interpreting what he was reading.

Can we make progress.

Mr Kafwaya interjected.

Madam Speaker: I am done with you.

Laughter

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, I wish to seek clarification on the responses that the hon. Minister has given. Previously, when the Government was considering renewable energy and solar energy as alternatives, the limiting factor was technology, especially when it came to grid synchronisation. I would like to know whether, presently, technology is able to accommodate solar energy as opposed to what we experienced previously?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition talked about synchronisation, and I do not understand what that means because that is a different topic. The synchronisation of solar into hydro is something that is of a technical nature, and I can come back to the House later and elaborate more on that.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mundubile indicated assent.

Madam Speaker: I can see that the Leader of the Opposition is nodding. Please, get back to him and clarify.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, it is true that the Mutwe Walupwa Project is ongoing, and I thank the Government for that. There is ample sunshine throughout the year in Zambia, which makes it ideal for solar power generation. The people of Kanchibiya do not just want to benefit from the solar power generated elsewhere, but would like to see solar plants. The landscape is there, and quite a number of studies have been done by private promoters. As regards the solar plant that the hon. Minister spoke about, will there be –

Mr M. Tembo crossed the Floor.

Madam Speaker: Order, order!

Mr Anakoka: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Before the hon. Member for Luena raises the point of order, hon. Member for Sinda, you are in breach of the rules. You crossed the Floor while the hon. Member for Kanchibiya was asking a question. Maybe, you did not take note. Please, in future, take note of who is on the Floor.

Hon. Member for Luena, is it the same point you wanted to raise?

Mr Anakoka: No, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Let us allow the hon. Member for Kanchibiya to ask his question so that we do not lose him in the process. Then you can raise your point of order before the hon. Minister answers the question.

May the hon. Member for Kanchibiya continue.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, I was actually interrupted by my neighbour, who has a name that proposes violence.

Laughter

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, will the solar plants the hon. Minister spoke about be placed in Muchinga? Further, will Kanchibiya be included?

Madam Speaker: Before the hon. Minister answers the question, the hon. Member for Luena can raise his point of order.

A point of order is raised.

Mr Anakoka: Madam Speaker, I do not rise on point of orders unless I am compelled to do so. In this case, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65 in relation to the statement that was placed on record by the hon. Member for Chinsali.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Chinsali, during the segment on Matters of Urgent Public Importance, placed on record a statement that is incorrect, misleading and divisive. He said that constituencies in the Southern Province and other provinces have received more amounts of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) than those in the Northern Province.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member in order to make such a dangerous and divisive statement when he had no facts to back up such an allegation?

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

When the hon. Member for Chinsali raised that matter of urgent public importance, I guided him. I referred to the various debates that we had last week on the same matter. Further, that happened during matters of urgent public importance, and you did not raise the point of order then. In any event, the hon. Member for Chinsali was out of order. So, the matter is closed.

Let us make progress.

May the hon. Minister answer the question.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the proposed solar plants will be dotted across the country, but I cannot state where they will be located. However, Hon. Sunday Chanda should encourage the people of Kanchibiya to apply to ZESCO Limited so that their households can be connected to the national grid. Alternatively, they can wait for next year, hoping that the negotiations with the World Bank regarding the US$60 million will supplement the connection fees in form of a subsidy.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, it is 55 km from Mutwe Walupwa to Kabinga, and those are rural areas. The hon. Minister is aware that from Nyimba to Chieftainess Mwapa’s Palace, it is 55 km. There is no power in those areas, and it is expensive for us to connect them to the national grid. There is a large population in Kabinga, and small companies selling small solar mini-grids are extorting people. That is not sitting well with the local people in those areas, which are densely populated. Does the Government have any plans of connecting those people’s households to the solar mini-grid?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the issue of connection fees in rural areas is receiving active consideration. I stated that REA and ZESCO Limited have started the process of sorting out the connections in urban and rural areas. I hope that by the first quarter of next year, this issue would have been resolved, and the people in rural areas will be able to access slightly cheaper electricity.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I believe, the hon. Member for Nyimba was more interested in Mutwe Wambwa. Even in the Western Province, there is Mutwi Wambwa. So, we are the same people.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, we are encouraging our people in Kanchibiya Constituency to apply to ZESCO Limited for connection where the works have been done so far. I would like to, again, place it on record that Kanchibiya is vast, and is both a constituency and a district. So, the percentage of the area connected is very small compared to the rest of Kanchibiya. We are calling for an energy mix because we understand the benefits that would accrue to our people when we have that. In an area where we are trying to mitigate environmental harm like pollution and deforestation, solar has a role to play. There are two local forests in Kanchibiya, and we do not want to keep Hon. Nzovu busy. So, solar is a game-changer in that regard. What is the Government’s position on that?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for this question.

Madam Speaker, I am on record stating that the Government intends to roll out a programme of establishing about 5,000 mini-solar grids throughout the country. So, Kanchibiya will be considered.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: This is a constituency-specific question.

Let us make progress.

CONSTRUCTION OF BRIDGE ACROSS MANSA RIVER

107. Mr Chibombwe (Bahati) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

(a)          whether the Government has any plans to construct another bridge across Mansa River on the Mansa/Kawambwa Road in Mansa District to replace the current bridge, which is in a deplorable state;

(b)          if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

(c)          if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, the Government is aware of the current state of the bridge, and there are plans to construct a new bridge across Mansa River on the Mansa/Kawambwa Road in Mansa District.

Madam Speaker, the plans will be implemented once the Treasury secures funds for the required works.

Madam Speaker, as stated in part (a) of the question, the Government has plans to construct a new bridge across Mansa River.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chibombwe: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the response. It is good to hear that the Government has plans to construct an alternative bridge on Mansa River, although he has not given us the timeframe.

Madam Speaker, the existing bridge is not just narrow, but also very old. It was constructed in 1952 by VWD Constructie. The people of Mansa District are asking if this Government can quickly construct the alternative bridge, as we have witnessed an increase in the traffic flow in the recent past, especially truckers from the Copperbelt going to other parts of the province, the Northern Province and Muchinga Province. So, the people are in a dire need of the bridge, and we do not want the Government to move in after the bridge collapses. How quickly can the hon. Minister go to the site?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Bahati’s question is: How soon can I go to the site? The answer is that I have already been to the site; I have been on that bridge. If the hon. Member wants more details about that bridge, I can give them to him.

Madam Speaker, the construction of a new bridge on the Mansa/Kawambwa Road will only be considered in future work plans. The designs and procurement of the contractor will be done when funds have been secured. As the construction of the new bridge is being awaited, the Government intends to construct four steel panel Acrow bridges across Mansa River, which will serve as a diversion during the construction of the bridge. The contract for the construction of the four bridges was initially awarded to Messrs Shachitari in 2021 at a contract sum of K68 million, but it was stopped due to funding challenges. When the contract was terminated, only minor excavation works had been undertaken, and the contractor was paid K6.7 million. The Government is exploring other means of implementing the works on the four bridges, such as engaging the Zambia National Service (ZNS).

Madam Speaker, let me remind the hon. Member for Bahati that the New Dawn Government of President Hakainde Hichilema is for the whole country. So, it is covering the whole country without favour, and that is why I went to see the bridge. In view of the instructions I gave when I was at the site, the regional office of the Road Development Agency (RDA) in Mansa constructed approach-lined drains. If the hon. Member were to go there, he would find that the bridge is not as it used to be. There were no guard rails on the bridge, making it dangerous, as people could fall over, but we installed guard rails on the bridge and painted it, and it looks good. However, the hon. Member is right about the width of the bridge, and that is why I said that there are plans to construct a new one. In the process of doing that, the diversion will be the Acrow bridges. I have pictures on my cellular phone that were taken during my visit to the site, and the hon. Member is at liberty to come and see how the bridge looks at the moment.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: That was a more promising answer than the first one. The hon. Member for Bahati is smiling; he is happy.

Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu): Madam Speaker, I have followed the hon. Minister’s answer very closely, and he has acknowledged that the Government has plans to construct a new bridge at Mansa River. The hon. Minister has also informed us that he has been to the site. Is it currently safe to use the bridge that he saw?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, three safety issues were identified. Firstly, there were no guard rails on the bridge, which means that people using it, including vehicles, risked tumbling over into the river. We have corrected that and, as I said, I have pictures to prove that. Secondly, there were no drains, and we have corrected that. Thirdly, the bridge is narrow and, I think, two trucks cannot pass on it at once.

Madam Speaker, the bridge has been there for a long time, and the Questioner said that it was constructed in 1952. These are some of the things that we are going to correct, and we are mindful of what needs to be corrected. All we are waiting for is to have resources. However, we will put Acrow bridges temporarily, which will act as a diversion before a proper bridge is constructed. So, the Government is fully aware of the state of the bridge.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chala (Chipili): Madam Speaker, my question has been answered. I wanted to know how the Government has taken care of the existing bridge, but the hon. Minister has explained.

MANSANSA LOCAL COURT PROJECT

108. Mr C. Chibuye (Mkushi North) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

(a)     when the construction of Masansa Local Court in Mkushi District will be completed;

(b)     what the cause of the delay in completing the project is;

(c)     how much money had been paid to the contractor, as of June 2023;

(d)     what the balance was, as of the same date; and

(e)     what the timeframe for the completion of the project is.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the construction of Masansa Local Court in Mkushi District will be completed by 31^st December, 2023.

Madam Speaker, the delay in completing the project was due to inadequate funds.

Madam Speaker, as of June 2023, a sum of K422,284.28 had been paid to the contractor.

Madam Speaker, as of June 2023, the outstanding balance on the project was K445,260.91.

Madam Speaker, the timeframe for completing the project is twelve weeks.

Madam Speaker, this question appears to have been overtaken by events, as I have stated that by December, this year, the work will be completed.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr C. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that the local court will be completed by December, this year. At the moment, the contractor is not on site. When is the contractor going back on site?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for this question.

Madam Speaker, the Government is mindful of the seriousness needed in answering questions in this House. Those who provide answers are also aware of the seriousness of the hon. Minister stating the Government’s position. So, when we say that the project will be completed by December 2023, that is what has been planned. Unless something drastic happens, that completion date will be met. Whether the contractor is on site or not, I think, that is immaterial. What we should focus on is whether the date that is indicated by the Government will be met or not. If the hon. Member has any information that will lead us to conclude that we will probably not conclude the works by that date, he is free to approach my ministry or me, and we will put in place measures to ensure that the project is completed by December 2023. The hon. Member may be aware that this project was given to JBD Greentech Limited in 2012 at a contract sum of K867,545, and we know who was in power then.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo interjected.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the construction works commenced in the same year, but stalled in 2013 due to a lack of funds. That led to the expiry of the contract. At the time of the expiry of the contract, 50 per cent of the works had been executed. However, in 2023, the new Judiciary under the Learned Counsel, the hon. Minister of Justice, through the Treasury, secured funds to complete the remaining works. So, in August 2023, the contract to complete the remaining works was awarded to Messrs Swengwa Limited. The contract sum of the project is K1,799,354.66, and the completion period is twelve weeks. As I said, it is expected that the project will be completed in December 2023. The contract has incorporated additional works that were not in the scope of the expired contract, namely a litigant shelter and ablution block. Currently, the project is at 60 per cent, but the main thing is that we intend to complete it by December, this year.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr C. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that explanation. I know that the contractor left the site in 2014, but I wanted to know when he will go back on site. I am wondering why the hon. Minister said that is immaterial, and that does not sit well with me. I think, every question that we ask here is actually material. So, hon. Ministers should not put us in a tight corner by saying that we are asking questions which are immaterial.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, we know, for sure, that the issue of the contractor abandoning the site is a long standing one because the contractor has not been at the site for a long time. The reason we are advancing the idea that the court be completed is that when magistrates go to conduct court sessions in Masansa, they do not have where to sit. As a result, they use classroom blocks. So, we would like the hon. Minister to look into this issue as a matter of urgency. Can he assure the people of Mkushi that, indeed, by December, even if the contractor is not on site, the building will be completed?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, if we are genuine in what we do, being reminded of history should not upset or worry us. I think, the hon. Member is mixing up two things. He said that the contractor abandoned the site in 2014. That is what I said, but we now have a new contractor. As I said, the hon. Minister of Justice secured funds and we got a different contractor. I mentioned the name of the contractor who abandoned the site in 2014 and that of the new contractor. Furthermore, we have increased the scope of works, namely putting up a litigant shelter and an ablution block. We have been assured that the works will be completed by December 2023. I cannot explain more than that.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kankoyo, do you have a question?

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Yes, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Proceed.

Mr Mabeta: Madam Speaker, in Kankoyo, there are many projects that were abandoned by the previous Government, and we have completed them using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Is the hon. Minister advising the hon. Member, where there is a shortfall of resources, to consider completing the projects that were abandoned by the previous Government using the CDF so that we continue from where the previous Government left off?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I think, those are wise words from the hon. Member for Kankoyo. Where abandoned works can be done using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), hon. Members should consider doing that so that we provide services to our people.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member for Mkushi North does not look very happy.

Mr C. Chibuye indicated dissent.

Madam Speaker: He really wants to know when the contractor is going to move on site. Maybe, that will put a smile on his face.

Hon. Minister, please, assure the hon. Member.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, money has been allocated and the project will be completed by the end of this year, whether the contractor moves on site today or later. First of all, we have not even ascertained whether the contractor is not on site. That is new information that I am getting. As far as we, at the ministry, are concerned, the project will be completed by December 2023. I mentioned the name of the contractor, and he is the one who will complete the works.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I actually closed the segment. I was just appealing to the hon. Minister to put a smile on the face of the hon. Member for Mkushi North.

Mr Kampyongo interjected.

Madam Speaker: Yes, I am coming to that.

A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, the responsibility of our colleagues in the Executive is to give factual responses. That is why questions are forwarded to them to give them ample time to verify what is obtaining on the ground before providing responses on the Floor of the House. Whatever hon. Ministers say here goes on record as a Government assurance.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development in order to be casual in the manner he is responding? It had to take you to plead with him to put a smile on the face of the hon. Member, which is not supposed to be the case.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, that was on a lighter note. Do not include me in the debate. I am just a Presiding Officer.

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: I hear you, Madam Speaker. I apologise for drawing you into the debate, but you did a noble thing.

Madam Speaker: I understand you are the stars. So, let them shine.

Go ahead.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister, a president with a small ‘P’, in order to be casual –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Withdraw the phrase “president with a small ‘P’”.

Mr Kampyongo: He is our fellow opposition leader, Madam Speaker. So, do not worry. However, I withdraw that.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to be casual when responding to the concerns and questions from the hon. Member for Mkushi North? He said that he does not even know whether the contractor is on site. How, then, does he give an assurance that the project will be completed in December? There is no magic in these matters.

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Since the hon. Minister is here, let him respond.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the point raised by the hon. Member with a big ‘P’ hinges on –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

Since I had asked the hon. Member to withdraw what he said, may you also withdraw the phrase “big ‘P’”.

Eng. Milupi: I withdraw that, Madam Speaker. That was on a lighter note.

Madam Speaker, the Government assurance is on the completion of the project. The Government is telling the hon. Member who asked the question that the project will be completed by the end of December 2023. That is a Government assurance. If there is evidence that we will not meet that deadline, then, that question can be brought up.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

CONSTRUCTION OF A BOARDING SCHOOL IN KAFULAMASE

109. Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central) asked the Minister of Education:

1. whether the Government has any plans to construct a boarding secondary school in Kafulamase area in Kabwe Central Parliamentary Constituency;

1. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

1. whether the school will cater for both girls and boys.

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima): Madam Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to construct a boarding secondary school in Kafulamase area in Kabwe Central Parliamentary Constituency.

Madam Speaker, due to the response in part (a) of the question, parts (b) and (c) of the question fall off. However, Kabwe being one of the districts without a boarding school secondary in the country, the Government intends, in the long term, to construct a boarding secondary school in Kafulamase area of Kabwe Central Parliamentary Constituency. The programme is on the district’s agenda and is among the proposals submitted for consideration in the infrastructure plan for a five-year rolling plan running from 2023 to 2028. The district intends to construct a co-education boarding secondary school to respond to the challenges the local people of Kafulamase area go through when sending their children to distant secondary schools. The district has already identified the feeder schools for the proposed boarding secondary school, including Gombe, Katondo, Boccs, Mary Chidgey, Mpima Prison, New Mpima Dairy, Nkrumah Extension, Chileya Community, Kabanga and Muwishi.

I thank you, Madam Speaker,

Ms Halwiindi: Madam Speaker, allow me to give a few statistics. This year, of the girls who fell pregnant, thirty-seven were from Grades 1 to 7, eighty-seven were from Grades 8 and 9, and 107 were from Grades 10 to 12, bringing the total number to 231, which is very alarming. We understand that there are financial constraints. However, can the hon. Minister assure the people of Kabwe Central Constituency that in 2025 or the period that he stipulated, the Government will prioritise Kafulamase area in Kabwe Central when constructing boarding schools?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, as I said earlier, we have a five-year rolling plan running from 2023 to 2028. So, I assure the hon. Member of Parliament that we will construct a boarding secondary school in the area, especially given the high teenage pregnancy levels. In fact, had we not been completing the projects that stalled, building a boarding school would have been a priority for the benefit of the girl child. That is a very painful issue. In fact, about 9,984 pupils cover long distances when going to primary schools. So, the area requires a boarding secondary school, which I said will be a co-education.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I see no other question. So, we can make progress.

CONSTRUCTION OF STAFF HOUSES AT NYANGO CORRECTIONAL SERVICE TRAINING SCHOOL

110. Mr Mwene (Mangango) asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security:

1. whether the Government has any plans to construct staff houses at Nyango Correctional Service Training School in Kaoma District;
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

1. if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Government has plans to construct 120 staff housing units comprising four high-cost units, fifty medium-cost units, and sixty-six low-cost housing units at Nyango Correctional Service Training School in Kaoma District. The project will be implemented under Phase II of the housing project for the security wings.

Madam Speaker, the project will be implemented when the Government approves Phase II of the housing project for the construction of staff houses for security wings and funds are made available.

Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to construct staff houses at Nyango Correctional Training School to improve the welfare of the members of staff.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwene: Madam Speaker, when will Phase II of the housing project be approved?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I did not get the question. Did he say the approval of the housing units or the allocation of funding?

Madam Speaker: May the hon. Member repeat the question. To be specific, which approval?

Mr Mwene: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has clearly stated that 120 houses will be constructed at Nyango Correctional Service Training School when Phase II of the housing project is approved. When will the project be approved?

Madam Speaker: The question is: When is Phase II of the housing project going to be approved?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I await the consideration of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning over the same. I cannot make a firm commitment pertaining to the date.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, will Phase II of the housing project that will be rolled out at Nyango Correctional Service Training School include the construction of staff houses for the Zambia Police Service in the Western Province?

Madam Speaker: The question is specifically about Nyango Correctional Service Training School. You are taking the hon. Minister by surprise by asking him about the other promises. So, if you are interested in knowing that, you can file in a separate question.

_______

MOTION

BUDGET 2024

(Debate resumed)

Mr P. Phiri (Mkaika): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to continue debating.

Madam Speaker, let me talk about economic growth. On page 2 of the Budget Speech, the hon. Minister proposes to grow the economy by 4.8 per cent in 2024, but there has been little investment in all the sectors. For the economy to grow, we need to invest. However, in the two years our colleagues have been in the Government, there has been very little investment in all the sectors.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr P. Phiri: Madam Speaker, on agriculture, we expect many dams to be constructed and many irrigation facilities to be provided in rural areas. The hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment informed us that we expect to have the El Nino weather pattern, meaning less rainfall. So, we need to focus on putting up irrigation facilities for our farmers so that we do not compromise food security.

Madam Speaker, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government invested a lot …

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Let us allow the hon. Member to debate.

Mr P. Phiri: … in infrastructure. It built roads, hospitals and bridges, to mention but a few. Even in the tourism sector –

Interruptions

Mr C. Chibuye interjected.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Mkushi North!

Today, you keep breaching the rules. You are now debating while seated. Did you not have an opportunity to debate? If you want to debate, you indicate, and you will be given the opportunity to debate. Do not interrupt the hon. Member for Mkaika, who is debating so well.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: May the hon. Member for Mkaika continue.

Mr P. Phiri: Madam Speaker, ever since the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government came into power, we have not seen any investments that will trigger growth. Growth is good, and we need to invest in all the areas.

Madam Speaker, on tourism, the Government should construct many roads in tourist areas like in the Kafue National Park and the other national parks dotted around the country because we need investment.

Mr Nyambose interjected.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Be orderly before I ask you to debate from outside the Chamber.

Mr P. Phiri: Madam Speaker, those who keep dairy animals need to give those animals a lot of food for them to get a lot of milk. That is the same as investing. So, the hon. Minister should invest a lot in different sectors in order to grow the economy by 4.8 per cent.

Madam Speaker, let me talk about health. In the Budget, huge sums of money have been allocated for the procurement of drugs, and the hon. Member for Nakonde raised a matter of urgent public importance on this. However, many important issues like that of equipment in hospitals were not addressed. I visited St. Francis Hospital and found that the equipment there is very old and needs to be replaced. The hon. Minister of Health needs to look into this issue because we cannot manage to be transferring patients from Katete or Chipata to Lusaka. So, we need equipment in hospitals. One time, I went to the University Teaching Hospital (UTH), but was referred to Maina Soko Military Hospital because the Computed Tomography (CT) Scan, at that time, was not working. So, I do not know what we are focusing on. Indeed, we have many challenges, but we need to procure things like CT Scans in hospitals. I do not know whether we should allocate more funds to the Ministry of Finance and National Planning or, maybe, just procure these things with the already allocated monies. Gone are the days when patients were transferred from Katete to the UTH. I feel, the Budget is not enough, but let us allocate more money to the health sector so that equipment is procured in hospitals.

Madam Speaker, I also want to talk about the monies –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Madam Speaker: I just wanted to be clear. Did you say that we should allocate more funds to the Ministry of Finance and National Planning?

Mr P. Phiri: The Ministry of Health.

Madam Speaker: Okay. So, you meant the Ministry of Health.

Mr Mukumbi (Solwezi West): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Budget Speech.

Madam Speaker, from the outset, I want to state clearly that the people of Kalumbila District support the Budget Speech.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukumbi: Madam Speaker, I am very proud to be associated with the men and women of honour on your right side. I know, we do not debate ourselves but, surely, you can see the wisdom of people like Hon. Dr Musokotwane.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

We do not want to embarrass our hon. Members. Please, debate the Budget Speech.

Mr Mukumbi: Madam Speaker, I take your counsel.

Madam Speaker, I am so proud to be part of this team here (Referring to Government hon. Members). The speech that the President presented a few weeks ago set the tone for 2024 because the President gave policy directives for 2024. Thereafter, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning addressed hon. Members of Parliament and guided on how we will implement what the President had directed us to implement. This simply means that the two offices are working together. That is how smart people work.

Mr Mapani: Hammer!

Mr Mukumbi: Madam Speaker, sometimes, we listen to our colleagues.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Debate the Budget Speech. Do not engage the people breaching our Standing Orders by debating while seated. They just want to distract you. Concentrate on your debate.

You may proceed.

Mr Mukumbi: Madam Speaker, some of our colleagues on the left side said that the Budget Speech is very hollow but, surely, if it is, why did they not state the things they feel are hollow in the speech? What we, in Kalumbila, are seeing in the Budget Speech are all positives.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukumbi: Madam Speaker, firstly, Kalumbila and Chililabombwe are a creation of exploration. Even the Broken Hill Man in Kabwe is as a result of the exploration that took place thousands of years ago and, today, some people are saying that is hollow. What is hollow about it? We need to provide more resources –

Mr B. Mpundu interjected.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Nkana!

I am watching you. Please, desist from debating while seated. When you were given an opportunity to debate, other hon. Members listened to you. Allow the hon. Member to also debate. Listen to him. If you have a point, you can give it to your friends to raise it, when their time to debate comes since you have already debated.

Mr B. Mpundu interjected.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Nkana!

Mr Mukumbi: Madam Speaker, I was saying that Chililabombwe, Kabwe, Kitwe, Mufulira and other towns are a creation of exploration. It is only through exploration that we will know what is hidden beneath the soil in our Republic. We have been discussing sugilite, but how does one invest in mining sugilite when one does not even know the quantities? Therefore, we need resources so that we know if there are diamonds in Chavuma, so that the people of Chavuma benefit from them. We must undertake exploration to know if there is gold in Lumezi and Mpika. For us, that is not hollow; that is positive. We recently signed public-private partnership (PPP) agreements in Kalumbila, and we are going to build a modern town using a PPP. What is hollow about that? Surely, for us, that is positive.

Madam Speaker, I remember that the hon. Member for Kanchibiya Constituency moved a Motion urging the Government to improve the conditions of service for Councillors, and we all agreed that Councillors must be well remunerated. Today, someone says that is hollow. For us, in Kalumbila, that is positive.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukumbi: Madam Speaker, in Kalumbila, we have fresh water and there are big rivers. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning indicated in his speech that he will allocate resources for the creation of more dams so that we can begin growing winter maize. We are complaining of the rainfall pattern, but we should also harvest water. We must also grow winter maize so that we do not run out of food in June, July and August.

Madam Speaker, on the reopening of Konkola Copper Mines (KCM), surely, should we continue mining from the courts? We have to mine where the resources are, and that is in Kitwe, Chingola, Mufulira and other districts. Surely, what is hollow about that? We need to mine so that contractors make a living out of that.

Madam Speaker, medicines are being procured to save lives, and vaccines are being procured to save livestock, yet someone says that is hollow. I have not come across an hon. Member of Parliament who does not eat beef, chicken and pork. There are no vegetarians in this House. Therefore, we need to procure more vaccines to save livestock because that is a business for others.

Madam Speaker, teachers and health personnel will be employed. How can one say that is hollow? If an hon. Member of Parliament does not need teachers, let him/her tell the hon. Minister of Education, and we will see if he/she will remain as such when his/her people know that he/she does not want teachers in his/her area. We all need teachers and desks because there is a deficit in our districts.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapyanga interjected.

Mr Mukumbi: Madam Speaker, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Mpika!

I am warning you. Next time, you will find yourself outside the Chamber. I have been watching you. You are just finding time to jet in and debate while seated. You know that is not allowed.

May the hon. Member continue.

Mr Mukumbi: Madam Speaker, the Pay-As-You-Earn (PAYE) exemption threshold has been increased to K5,100, meaning all those who get below K5,100 will not pay tax. Surely, is that hollow? The CDF amount has been increased from K28 million to K30 million. Is that not a positive change? Is that hollow? I can go on and on talking about the positives, and that is why I said that we, in Kalumbila, support the Budget.

Madam Speaker, many people ask us what members of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government did when they were in power, and we saw many of them going to gymnasia.

Madam Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Mr Nyambose (Chasefu): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me an opportunity, on behalf of the good people of Chasefu, –

Interruptions

Mr Kapyanga: Mushanina bwali!

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Who said “mushanina bwali”? I heard somebody say “mushanina bwali”.

Hon. Member for Mpika, did I not warn you that you are not supposed – Go and be outside for today. You may leave the Assembly Chamber.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapyanga left the Assembly Chamber.

Madam Speaker: May the hon. Member for Chasefu continue.

Mr Nyambose: Madam Speaker, I am a seasoned leader. I understand that some people are frustrated. So, I will not get distracted. I am here to represent the good people of Chasefu.

Madam Speaker, on page 43 of the Budget Speech, in the last paragraph, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning talked about the increment in the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) amount from K28.3 million to K30.6 million. Why have I started with the last paragraph? For me, this demonstrates the Government’s vision to develop this country without leaving any part behind, as it used to be. The good people of Chasefu, whom I represent, will now have K30.6 million for development. So, this is a visionary leadership that wants to ensure that – When we went to Botswana for benchmarking, I was very happy to see developed villages or towns because resources are being taken closer to the people. So, this Budget is very progressive. Look at what the CDF has done? Anyway, I will not emphasise that.

Madam Speaker, on page 25 of the Budget Speech, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning confirmed receiving a report on the assessment of corruption in December, last year. For us to develop this country, we must deal decisively with corruption. We are talking about scarce resources, but resources will never be enough. It is true that we have received part of the CDF, but how do we ensure that the resources in this country are taken to where they are supposed to be utilised? It is by curbing corruption. We have to deal with corruption decisively. Every time the President talks about corruption, he is attacked. Even here, if I started talking about corruption, people would shake or be uncomfortable. There is no way a country can develop when corruption is thriving. It should not just end with the report that was received. What are we doing to assist the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning so that the money we lost because of corruption is recovered and, instead be used to work on the Lundazi/Chama Road? That money should be recovered so that the road is worked on. The only boarding school in Chasefu was not completed because of corruption, and it is at 80 per cent.

Madam Speaker, the President said that for him to develop all the constituencies, he would get the money from the centre, where the big thieves are. Pardon me for that, but I always follow the President very well. He has taken the money from the centre to the peripheral areas, which are Chasefu and other constituencies, and we appreciate that. Everyone here can see what the money is doing.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear.

Mr Nyambose: However, some areas are more urbanised unlike Chasefu. Some people would receive money, yet they are saying that the CDF is not working. It is like getting water from the tap in a cup and pouring it into the Zambezi River, expecting the water levels to rise. People will think you have a problem. However, when you get water in a cup from the Zambezi River and pour it on a dry surface like Chasefu – We appreciate what the Government is doing.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyambose: So, we, who are genuine, should speak the truth about how progressive the current Government is, as it is taking development to all parts of the country. When I sit here, I am not ashamed, and I am proud to be associated with a progressive Government that is taking money to where it would not be taken.

Interruptions

Mr J. E. Banda handed a bottle of water to Mr Nyambose.

Hon. Members: Water, water!

Mr Nyambose drank water.

Mr Nyambose: Thank you very much, my brother, Mr Banda.

Madam Speaker, let me, again, talk about corruption. Corruption has left the centre, which is Lusaka, and has been taken to the constituencies. I reported several people for selling a fascia board at K1,050, and I wrote a report. These things are happening. So, we should assist the President and the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning so that the resources can bear fruits in Chasefu, and ensure that the corruption that was here, in Lusaka, does not go to the constituencies. When we want to give local contractors contracts, some people say that they have no capacity and connive with the procurement officers. That is why I agree with the hon. Minister that there is a need to review the procurement process.

Mr Binwell, are you listening?

Laughter

Mr Nyambose: Madam Speaker, this is the reality. If we are to develop, we should fight corruption. Those who stole should be the starting point. I always say that muntu amangiwe. It is not a joke. I detest corruption.

Interruptions

Mr Nyambose: If some people conducted themselves differently, they should be the starting point.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, what does “muntu amangiwe” mean?

Mr Nyambose: Madam Speaker, it means ‘someone should be arrested’.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyambose: Madam Speaker, only those who are guilty will feel uncomfortable. If one did not do anything, why would one shout or murmur? For us to deter corruption, let us start with those using the CDF wrongly. Many times, the culprits are we, the politicians. This country is destroyed by politicians. When an ordinary person indulges in corruption, he/she is punished. However, when a politician does the same, people even offer solidarity; solidarity for thieves.

Madam Speaker, this is a very progressive Budget that was prepared by a progressive Government, and it should be supported. The people of Chasefu are very happy because things are happening.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Katakwe: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I am sure, with this kind of debate, we will not see anybody dosing today.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Let us make progress and avoid debating while seated.

The hon. Member for Kasama Central may take the Floor.

Ms S. Mwamba rose.

Madam Speaker: Sorry, hon. Member for Kasama Central. Before you come in, there was an indication for a point of order by the hon. Member for Solwezi East.

A point of order is raised.

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, my point of order is pursuant to Standing Order No. 65.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member who debated before the hon. Member for Chasefu, Mr Mukumbi, who comes from Kalumbila, one of the richest areas, forgot to mention that the issues concerning Kansele Mine and Kalengwa Mine also need to be resolved so that the people of the North-Western Province can find jobs. He also forgot to mention that yesterday, hon. Members from the Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services witnessed the handover of the bulk supply of medicine at the Zambia Medicines and Medical Supply Agency (ZAMMSA) from Egypt, which was purchased by the Government of the Republic of Zambia. Was he in order to forget to mention that our people will not be getting unnecessary prescriptions from hospitals because the medicine is now over 90 per cent available in hospitals?

I seek your ruling, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Hon. Member for Solwezi East, you were debating, having a second bite at the cherry.

The hon. Member for Solwezi West was in order because he was debating what was on his mind. If he forgot to mention those issues you raised, maybe, you can send a note to another hon. Member who can debate about them.

May the hon. Member for Kasama Central take the Floor.

Ms S. Mwamba (Kasama Central): Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me to add my voice to the debate, on behalf of the people of Kasama Central.

Madam Speaker, I will begin by stating that to whom much is given, much is required.

Madam Speaker, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) was K26 million. It moved to K28.3 million and is currently at K30.6 million, which is an increase of K2.3 million. From K30.6 million, K1.5 million, which is 5 per cent, is for disaster management and, again, K1.5 million, which is 5 per cent, is for administrative costs. K12 million, which is 40 per cent, is for skills development, bursaries and empowerment funds while K15.3 million, which is 50 per cent, is mostly for infrastructure development.

Madam Speaker, as I stated earlier, to whom much is given, much is required. Every day, we talk about the CDF, but what are we doing? The funds are still not enough and, I feel, the resource envelope for the CDF can be increased further. Let us not forget that we have to use the K15 million to construct educational and health facilities. There is free education. So, we need to build more classrooms because certain schools only have 1 x 3 classroom blocks, with learners from Grades 1 to 9. In this case, the CDF becomes a classroom development fund because we need to construct more classrooms.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. UPND Member: Question!

Ms S. Mwamba: Much as we need to construct more classrooms, we also need desks, and that is also another huge expense. We also have to contribute to the rural electrification projects pool, purchase vehicles and equipment and we are in dire need of feeder roads. We also have to act on the directives that come through. So, the funds do not add up; they are not enough. In the Budget, I do not see any allocation apart from the K30.6 million, and there will be no capital development from the Central Government. So, in 2024, we are stuck with the K30.6 million.

Madam Speaker, in my constituency, the farthest point is 110 km away. Hypothetically, that is from Lusaka to Chibombo. If you compare the size of constituencies in Lusaka and on the Copperbelt, you cannot match them with some of the constituencies where we come from. In actual fact, there was a need to allocate funds for delimitation. However, some funds are a drop in the ocean. Imagine putting up a health post 110 km away? How many people will know about it apart from those in that area? Hence, the people are asking what their hon. Members are doing because they are not seeing anything due to the fact that some constituencies are vast. Allocating K15 million for development is way below par.

Madam Speaker, there is also a need for equality as well as equity. There needs to be baseline level funding for all constituencies then additional resources should be allocated based on specific needs and challenges. The challenges are plenty.

Madam Speaker, I looked through the Budget Speech for roads and hoped that the Great North Road would be one of those considered, but to no avail. The speech was concluded, but I appeal to the Government to work on the road, come what may, because it is also a gateway to East Africa. Many trucks use that road. So, if possible, the Government should convert it into a dual carriageway.

Eng. Milupi interjected.

Ms S. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I am very grateful that there is an airport in Kasama, but why is the Government not commissioning the airport? When infrastructure is completed, it needs to be commissioned so that it is utilised as soon as possible. Funds were used on that project but, at the moment, there are no flights to Kasama.

Madam Speaker, there are industrial parks in Kasama, but they are not fully utilised and they are a sorry sight. There are a few hammer mills in the area, and a mechanic operating there, but we can do better. Therefore, there is a need to come up with a stimulus package for small and medium enterprises (SMEs) operating in industrial parks. The funds at the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) and the CDF are not enough. Last year, the money from the ministry and the CEEC was over-subscribed, and people are still waiting. Not too long ago, most companies suffered setbacks and others wound up because of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19). Therefore, the Government needed to come up with a special stimulus package separate from the one provided by the CEEC and the CDF to enable businesses that went under to pick up because, through them, the private sector would help the Government to employ people. In fact, the private sector would assist in alleviating poverty and youth unemployment.

Madam Speaker, lastly, the Budget is, more or less, hand-to-mouth. As a country, we need to look into ways of increasing our resource envelope. Let us not have a Budget that has the ins and outs of awaiting grants. We need to provide for our finances through taxes and resources, not year in and year out having a hand-to-mouth Budget.

Madam Speaker, with those few remarks, I wish to thank you for the opportunity to debate on behalf of the people of Kasama Central.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mubika (Shangombo): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for this opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the Floor.

Madam Speaker, I want to join my colleagues in appreciating what this Government is doing and has done in the past two years. I represent Shangombo, a rural constituency and, using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), we procured road equipment. Next year, we will work on the feeder roads. We also built eighteen I x 3 classroom blocks and six health centres using the CDF in the past two years. In 2024, we will be given K30.6 million, meaning, many projects will be undertaken in Shangombo. We usually make headlines about hunger but, in the next two or three years, we will ensure that in each ward, there is a co-operative farm, and we will put up irrigation facilities so that we stop troubling Her Honour the Vice-President, although I appeal to her to send more food to Shangombo. In view of the enhanced CDF, we are going to invest in agriculture.

Madam Speaker, I have grew up in this House …

Interruptions

Mr Mubika: … and have served in the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government. Hon. George Mpombo once said that when a political party loses elections, it suffers from political brouhaha, a disease of failing to come to terms with reality, …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Mubika: … and that disease attacked us in 2011. I used to sit on the right then when we were knocked out, I went to the left. Thank God I came back after ten years. So, I know how it feels to lose an election. I do not expect the people who are still mourning and suffering from political brouhaha to thank this Government.

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mubika: Hon. Kampyongo, you are my brother.

Laughter

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, I advise my colleagues to come to terms with what happened and to give credit where it is due. If they cannot thank the Government, it is better they keep quiet. Last week, I was disappointed to see my colleagues fail to acknowledge what this Government has done. I usually see hon. Members on your left thanking this Government on television when handing over projects, grants, loans and equipment in their constituencies. However, when they come here, they say that the Budget is nothing and that the CDF is a scam. The CDF is a game-changer, and I know what I am talking about. I have listened to many Budget speeches in this House. In view of what has been happening in Shangombo from 2021 to 2023, I think, it will be difficult for one to distort the record of this Government. This Government is here to stay because of the CDF.

Madam Speaker, I want to advise the Government on the issue of recruitment. It is important that every constituency is apportioned a number of recruits because, last month, when there was a pass out in Mangango, only one person from Shangombo was employed, which is not right. So, the Ministry of Education, the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security and the Ministry of Defence should recruit a number of people from every constituency in the defence wings or the Zambia Police Service. If they do not do that, it will be difficult to employ people from places like Shangombo and Kaputa. The Government has done well, so far, with the recruitments, but it should recruit a number of people from every constituency.

Madam Speaker, Shangombo and Sikongo are gateways to Angola. We are crying about the high price of fuel, but when the road that leads to Angola is worked on through a public-private partnership (PPP), I am sure, we can have cheaper fuel from Angola.

Madam Speaker, this Government is pro-poor, as can be seen in the way the national cake is being shared.

Mr Samakayi: Hear, hear!

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, I heard my fellow hon. Members of Parliament talk about the price of mealie meal being high, and about the exchange rate. However, what was the price of mealie meal and the exchange rate in 2011 when the MMD Government handed over power to the Patriotic Front (PF) Government? We were there. In 2011, one would buy three bags of mealie meal and cooking oil at K100.

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mubika: However, in 2021, when the PF left Government, the exchange rate of the United States (US) Dollar to the Kwacha, which was at some point K4, was K22, and the exchange rate of the Pound to the Kwacha was K32. Our colleagues are condemning the Government, but they should come out of political brouhaha because it is not taking them anywhere. The New Dawn Government means well. I was in the same class as my colleague (pointing at Mr Kafwaya) at Chunga Primary School in Livingstone, and he knows that the New Dawn Government means well for everyone. Everyone here is very happy with the CDF.

Madam Speaker, with those few words, I thank you.

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Simumba: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Lunte, please, resume your seat. You will be recognised. I know what I am doing. I was allowing the hon. Member to finish his debate so that it flows. However, there was also an indication for a point of order by the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu.

A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I was following the hon. Member of Parliament for Shangombo’s debate, but he started referring to us. The Budget is very clear, and I do not know where it talks about the Movement for Multiparty Democracy (MMD) Government and the Patriotic Front (PF) Government losing elections and the cost of living. The hon. Member was supposed to talk about the cost of mealie meal in Shangombo, where he comes from.

Madam Speaker, was the hon. Member in order to veer off from the Budget Speech and to start debating – He did not interpret the word ‘brouhaha’, which only he knows. Was he in order to debate in that manner without bearing in mind Standing Order No. 65 (1)(b).

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Some hon. Members on the left referred to the cost of living being high. So, the hon. Member for Shangombo was rebutting that perception, according to my understanding. As for that word that I cannot even pronounce, I think, it was invented by him and Hon. Mpombo. You know that Hon. Mpombo likes using big words.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Nakonde, you wanted to raise a point of order. What is the point of order?

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, it has been overtaken by events.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Lunte, you came in a bit late and you immediately raised a point of order. What is the point of order?

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, when we were singing the National Anthem, I was here and I have been here throughout.

Madam Speaker: You had gone out to take, maybe, a cup of coffee or something stronger than coffee.

Laughter

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I was concerned to hear my colleague, whom I was with in the same class at primary school, bring me up in his debate. Was my colleague in order to drag me into his debate, which debate was not even addressing the Budget Speech, but issues that are far away from it? I was just seated here attentively listening to his debate, but he decided to engage me in that fashion. This point of order, of course, is based on a precedent that has been set on the Floor of this House, in which an hon. Member picks on an hon. Member who is as innocent as I am and draws him into his debate.

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling on the matter.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Madam Speaker: I have nothing to add (laughs). Those are new answers. I think, the hon. Member was just remembering the olden days when you used to be in the same class. When you came in, you kept standing up. So, he remembered what you used to do when you were in the same class.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: I am sure, you can settle that outside as you go and have tea.

Can we make progress.

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, I would like to add my voice, on behalf of the people of Kantanshi, to the debate on the Budget.

Madam Speaker, it is quite a difficult Budget, and I will focus on the revenue streams because every Budget needs to be financed. If the Government does not have the revenue streams to finance the Budget, then, how is it going to execute it? However, the most important thing is that the Government realises that our current gross domestic product (GDP) of 2.7 per cent is too low to even create any jobs, and pre-activities, especially in the mining and the agricultural sectors, are low, and these are two areas where revenue can come from. Further, the unemployment rate and the cost of living are high. However, the Government realises the challenges it is facing in providing the services that the people of Zambia need.

Madam Speaker, I wish to draw the hon. Minister’s attention to a few areas. If the Government is to unlock the economy, it certainly has to make radical decisions, but I do not support one of the decisions that have been made. For example, the Government proposes a charge of 1n or 8 cents and the people being targeted are those out of the bracket of the banking sector who earn the lowest and form the grassroots; the people who voted for us. So, whilst that is a good innovation, I think, the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA should have provided a better proposal to the Government.

Madam Speaker, the President announced that the Government would formalise artisanal mining. Now, the ZRA is on record saying that there are about 500 artisanal mining companies that should be taxed at the same level as the big mines. However, the mines have not been productive simply because they do not have capital. So, instead of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning giving the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development US$168 million for it to undertake mapping, the Government should allow the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines Investments Holdings (ZCCM-IH) to continuously be mapping this country. The ZCCM-IH has the capacity to borrow money from the commercial market and attract investors by using its position under the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC) and the trade arm of the Government, which is the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA). So, the Government should separate the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development from business. For example, sugilite has been exposed, but this is when the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development wants to undertake mapping, and that does not attract investors in any way.

Madam Speaker, it would be good if the Government supported the 500 artisanal mines, through a partnership the same way it has been dishing out money for the so-called empowerment programmes. The recent Report of the Auditor-General indicates that the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts only collected K3 million out of the K29 million that it gave out. That clearly shows that we are not spending the money prudently. The Government has the appetite to support the youths, but it must also look at other avenues that will support the general wellbeing of our economy. So, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning should relook at how artisanal mines can be supported because they have the potential to create a thousand jobs, which we have seen in the mining sector.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister proposes to add K300 million to the Credit Guarantee Scheme, yet out of the current K150 million, only K21 million has been consumed. So, that is, again, money sitting idly. Why can the Government not tilt the Credit Guarantee Scheme towards supporting artisanal mines so that we can start to see – In terms of revenue collection for our country, the Mineral Royalty Tax is fifth, but it is supposed to be first to relieve the citizens, especially given the high cost of living and the high rate of unemployment. The minerals that God gave us should work for us. So, if we are to unlock our economic potential, we need to move away from the traditional ways of Pay-As-You-Earn (PAYE) and withholding tax to other areas. This radical way of thinking will lead us into unlocking our potential.

Madam Speaker, K300 million has been proposed for the recruitment of 4,500 nurses, but what about the teachers, architects, civil engineers and chemical engineers whom we have in this country, and the mining engineers in Mufulira, where I come from? It means, those fellows do not have anywhere to go; they are not recognised in the economy. However, apprenticeship programmes can be introduced in artisanal mines and other areas to benefit those looking for jobs. Unfortunately, because of the high cost of living and production, most companies are not employing. So, much as the Government has the opportunity to unlock economic potential, it has to be radical.

Madam Speaker, look at how much debt we have created under the so-called umbrella of creating food security because of the phasing out of the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). The debt we have from the purchase of fertiliser, for example, is alarming. How do we have food security and create debt for our country? I think, these are areas that require re-examination so that our economy starts to grow.

Madam Speaker, the Government proposes to grow the economy by 4.8 per cent next year. However, there is slowness in the mining sector. We heard of the impasse at Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) in which the main contractor is pulling out. Of course, the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development told us that sanity will be restored but, today, in the morning, we read that the final agreement has not been signed. All these are areas of concern. Therefore, it is becoming difficult to see whether mining should just focus on KCM and Mopani Copper Mines. I feel, we should build the 500 artisanal mines so that they can take over. The mines that we depend on have never paid any dividends. Nonferrous Mining Corporation Africa (NFC Africa), which pledged K1.3 billion, and has been mining for twenty-five years in Zambia, has not paid any dividend.

Madam Speaker, let me end here by saying that I support the Budget, but I urge the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to relook some areas.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Simuzingili (Gwembe): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity, on behalf of the good people of Gwembe, to add my voice to the debate on this very beautiful Budget.

Madam Speaker, –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, let us improve on time-keeping.

Mr Simuzingili: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I was saying that the people of Gwembe are very happy with the 2024 Budget, and the reasons are many. This Budget is pregnant with policy frameworks, resources and incentives for unlocking the potential of the Zambian economy.

Hon. UPND Members: hear, hear!

Mr Mwene: With triplets, actually.

Mr Simuzingili: Madam Speaker, we need history in order to shape our future. Our colleagues are saying that this Budget is hollow, but do they know what we, in the United Party for Development (UPND), while in the Opposition, were doing to indicate that the Budget was hollow? We used to draft alternative Budgets, policies and incentives. Now, in the absence of alternative Budgets, polices and incentives, what is the basis for their saying that the Budget is baseless? The best is to shut up or keep quiet.

Madam Speaker, the intelligent hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has introduced incentives. By the way, before I forget, you will remember that last week, there was a slogan of “insala, insala” or “hunger, hunger”. Can our colleagues tell us where that slogan has gone? That slogan is no longer there. Why is that so?

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

Mr Simuzingili: We have a methodical and visionary President ...

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuzingili: ... who has, in few weeks, dealt with the situation as he promised. Today, all of us know the current price of mealie meal because the methodical Government has done its work. That was not achieved by saying abracadabra. It takes strategic thinking and planning for one to resolve issues, and that is what this Government is doing.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuzingili: Madam Speaker, let me talk about the incentives that this Budget is offering. First and foremost, to motivate farmers to grow more maize, you have to increase the price of maize. So, the increase in the maize price has not only motivated the small-scale farmers, but also the commercial farmers because, now, they have seen value in growing maize. In the past, it was discouraging to grow maize because one would get a paltry price for the crop. So, now, everybody is motivated to grow maize, including me. This year, I will increase the hectarage of maize. The panacea and sustainable way of addressing the issue of the price of the maize is by developing farming blocks. This is a very critical policy framework pregnant with resources and incentives. This Government will ensure that there are roads, power, bridges and irrigation schemes in farming blocks. When that is realised, like I have said, it will be a panacea to the issue of the price of maize. When farming blocks are fully developed and operational, we will see a significant increase in the growing of maize. As such, we will have enough maize and, consequently, the price of mealie meal will be reduced.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuzingili: Madam Speaker, when the price of mealie meal is reduced, we will stop calling our friends smugglers who are the potential buyers of maize. There is a huge market of maize and we need that market. However, we are calling our friends smugglers because we are not growing enough maize in our country. As Backbenchers, we will not only regurgitate what the Frontbench is saying, but we will also offer solutions. I think, part of the solution, as regards the production of maize, is to fully capacitate the Zambia National Service (ZNS) and the Zambia Correctional Service. When those two institutions are given centre pivots and all the resources required, they can produce crops for our strategic maize reserves, and we can sell the rest of the crops to get the much-needed foreign exchange (FOREX).

Madam Speaker, let me now talk about the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), which is a game-changer, and it has changed Gwembe. We procured six earth-moving equipment, and Gwembe has become a construction site because every day, machines are rolling and the contractor will work on the main road, which was supposed to be worked on by the Road Development Agency (RDA). Since the contractor will work on that major road next year, the RDA should tar the Gwembe/Chipepo Road. Further, one of the roads that the Government needs to work on is the Bottom Road, which has been a thorn in the flesh for many years.

Madam Speaker, there was no filling station in Gwembe, but there is now one that will be operational in the next two weeks. We now have banking services, which too were not there since Independence. The people of Gwembe ask who has brought about that development, and I tell them that it is the New Dawn Government. They are asking where the President was; “balikwi?” I told them that God’s time is the best. The President is here now and is changing the development trajectory of Gwembe. It is so good now to walk in Gwembe, which used to be a Cinderella district that was forgotten by successive Governments. In two years, the New Dawn Government has changed Gwembe.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, Hear!

Mr Simuzingili: Madam Speaker, we are currently distributing 3,000 desks in Gwembe. The President said that no child should sit on the floor and, true to his word, we are distributing desks. To encourage quality education, the Government has reduced the pupil-teacher ratio by employing 30,000 teachers in 2022 and, in 2023, it will employ 4,500. Come 2024, the Government will employ 4,000 –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chibombwe (Bahati): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity. I will focus on a few topical issues contained in the Budget Speech.

Madam Speaker, let me put it on record that I used to live in Gwembe and that I know that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government constructed an ultra-modern Level 1 hospital there. So, I do not know what the hon. Member of Parliament for Gwembe was talking about.

Madam Speaker, –

Mr Mwene: How come we did not see it?

Mr Chibombwe: It is there for everyone to see. Previously, there was a ka small hospital but –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Please, focus on your debate.

Mr Chibombwe: Madam Speaker, I just wanted to set the record straight so that people can stop misleading themselves and the nation.

Madam Speaker, from the outset, let me state that this Budget has more disadvantages than advantages, and it lacks new ideas and innovation. The Budget does not articulate new policies and does not address the burning issues that the people of Bahati Constituency are facing. So, it is less likely to bring about any tangible development in Luapula Province, in particular, Bahati Constituency. Further, the Budget does not address the prices of mealie meal and fuel, the unstable foreign exchange (FOREX) rates and business opportunities, especially for small and medium enterprises (SMEs), and I note that the hon. Minister has reduced the allocation to loans for SMEs.

Madam Speaker, the people of Bahati Constituency expected electricity tariffs and connection fees to be reduced. Let me give a background to the connection fees. The hon. Minister of Energy proposed a 50 per cent reduction of connection fees. However, the fees have been increased from K760 to K5,000 for a standard connection, K2,800 to K15,000 for a non-standard connection and K6,500 to K34,000 for what is known as a group scheme connection. The people in Bahati Constituency cannot afford those tariffs, and this is too much for an ordinary person. I know that even the people of Bauleni in Lusaka, who are suffering, cannot afford the high connection fees.

Madam Speaker, I said that this Budget lacks new ideas because we expected the hon. Minister to speak about the potential of hydro power on the Luapula River. In the energy sector, the hon. Minister said that the Government will give independent power producers (IPPs) incentives, but that is not what we need. There is a power deficit in this country and the region. Forty per cent of the Southern African Development Community (SADC) waters are in Zambia. So, we expected the hon. Minister to talk about unlocking the potential of hydro power on the Luapula River. We are grappling with the high costs of fuel and mealie meal. If we unlocked the potential of hydro power on the Luapula River, Zambia can become a net exporter of electricity in the region, and those are new initiatives that can be used to improve the economy.

Madam Speaker, let me quickly talk about mining. Yes, we do not mine much in Luapula, but there is sugilite there, a mineral that is trending. We expected the hon. Minister to make a policy pronouncement on the mining and marketing of sugilite. As at now, the Chinese or foreigners are exploiting our people mining sugilite. So, we expected a clear policy from the Government on how the mining of not only sugilite, but also other precious minerals is going to be done. Almost 90 per cent of the precious minerals in Zambia are mined illegally, and I know that the hon. Minister is aware. Ninety per cent of the gold in Zambia mined in the four corners of Zambia is mined illegally, but the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development is seated ndwii, not doing anything.

Madam Speaker, on page 7 of the Budget –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Bahati, please, translate “ndwii”.                                                   

Mr Chibombwe: It means he is seated quietly, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: That is better.

Mr Chibombwe: Madam Speaker, on page 7, paragraph 42, of the Budget, the hon. Minister indicated that the price of fertiliser has gone down from US$1,200 to US$875. On the ground, fertiliser is still expensive. Today, the price of Compound D Fertiliser in Bahati Constituency is K880 while that of Urea is K900. So, the hon. Minister’s statement that the price of fertiliser has gone down is far from the truth. I urge this Government, especially the hon. Minister of Agriculture, to focus on Luapula because that is where the good rainfall and fertile soil are and hardworking people who can produce maize to feed this nation.

Madam Speaker, I am aware that there is a cantankerous Minister who insulted the people of Luapula.

Mr Mubika: Question!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

The word cantankerous …

Mr Chibombwe: It is an English word, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: … is not parliamentary. You have used it wrongly. Can you withdraw it and replace it with a better word.

Mr Chibombwe: Madam Speaker, I withdraw it and replace it with ‘irresponsible’ Minister who insulted the people of Luapula here, on the Floor of this House. The people of Luapula are bitter that they were insulted here, on the Floor of this House.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Bahati!

Please, do not divide the nation. We are looking at the National Budget. Debate the Budget instead of dividing the people who are not even here.

Mr Chibombwe: Madam Speaker, much obliged. The people of Luapula will judge that Minister.

Madam Speaker, let me get back to the Budget, and I was talking about mining. We are aware that the New Dawn Government has given the mines on the Copperbelt to a mining firm called ‘Vendata’ Resources Limited, which is bankrupt. Our people in Luapula Province are wondering how this Government can give ‘Vendata’ –

Laughter

An hon. Member interjected.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Continue, hon. Member.

Mr Chibombwe: It is good that the hon. Member is listening. He is one of those who handed over our copper mine to Vendanta Resources Limited.

Madam Speaker, the people of Bahati trade with the people of the Copperbelt. So, if there is no copper production on the Copperbelt, then, the people of Luapula will be affected because they do a lot of business with people of the Copperbelt Province.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I do not support the Budget because it has failed lamentably to address the issues that are affecting my people in Bahati Constituency.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The following hon. Members will debate: the hon. Member for Kalulushi, the hon. Member for Sioma, the hon. Member for Kasenengwa and the hon. Member for Mitete.

Ms Mulenga (Kalulushi): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me an opportunity, on behalf of the good people of Kalulushi, to contribute to the debate on the Budget.

Madam Speaker, for the first time in the history of Parliament, during the presentation of the Budget Speech, there was half-time, and I knew that we were in trouble.

Interruptions

Ms Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I will just tackle a few –

Hon. UPND Member interjected.

Ms Mulenga: We had a tea break. That has never happened before, and that is trouble. It took the hon. Minister a long time to convince Zambians, but the people of Kalulushi are not convinced.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Kalulushi!

I think, it is not important to talk about how the Budget was presented. I am sure, the people of Kalulushi would like to hear more about the content of the Budget Speech. Please, just focus on that.

You may continue.

Ms Mulenga: Well guided, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I will talk about a few issues that the people of Kalulushi are concerned about, and I will begin with the much-proclaimed Constituency Development Fund (CDF). The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning told us that the CDF amount has been increased by K2.3 million, from K28.3 million to K30.6 million. However, the people of Kalulushi are very worried because this year, they have only been given K7 million. We have heard from all corners of this House that the CDF is a game-changer.

Madam Speaker, this country is in serious problems. This Government is a hoax, and it needs to be stopped.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Kalulushi!

This Government was put in place by the people of Zambia. It is a true Government for this Republic of Zambia. Kindly withdraw the word “hoax”.

Ms Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I withdraw the word “hoax” and replace it with ‘very irresponsible in terms of allocating – ’

Mr Samakayi: Question!

Laughter

Ms Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I withdraw the word.

Madam Speaker, when the United Party for National Development (UPND) formed Government, it brought a Budget, and I am on record saying that the CDF would be a hoax to all of us here, and I know that my colleagues on the other side know that.

Mr Kabuswe: Question!

Ms Mulenga: Madam Speaker, the CDF under the previous Government was K1.6 million. I will talk about my constituency, where we saw the mushrooming of health posts with equipment.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mulenga: Madam Speaker, for the first time, under the previous Government, we saw bituminous standard roads and boarding schools being built. The CDF amount has been increased, but the only things that we see are classroom blocks. If we are not careful, this country will be taken ten years backwards.

Mr Mufalali: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Ms Mulenga: The development –

Mr Samakayi: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Mufalali: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Ms Mulenga: Madam Speaker, may I be protected. It –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Ms Phiri: Hammer, hammer!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Avoid debating while seated. Can we give the hon. Member on the Floor the chance to focus on her debate. If you have issues, jot them down. There is still time to debate. Just jot those issues down and rebut them when you are given the opportunity to debate. Hon. Ministers will start debating on Friday and will debate until Friday, next week, and will attend to all the issues that are being raised in this House.

May the hon. Member for Kalulushi continue.

Ms Mulenga: Madam Speaker, the only development that we are seeing today in our constituencies are 1 x 2 classroom blocks. Under the previous regime, we saw schools and hospitals being built but, today, what we are seeing are just extensions to clinics. Under the current Government, the only thing that we are seeing being constructed are police posts. Under the previous regime, we saw police stations being built. Under this Government, all the money from the Central Government is being directed to the CDF. The people based at the Central Government are just in offices because there is no money. When you ask the hon. Minister when a proper piping of water in Kalulushi will be put, he will tell you to use the CDF. How much of that allocation are we going to use when this year, I have only received K7 million?

Madam Speaker, this Budget speaks to decentralisation. What decentralisation when I am being told how to use the CDF in Kalulushi? Does decentralisation entail the Central Government dictating how the CDF should be used? Again, this Government is a hoax.

Madam Speaker, –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

I think, I have already ruled on this Government not being a hoax. Do not go back to what has already been ruled on.

I will allow points of order because people keep interjecting. The first one will be from the right side and the last one will be from the left side.

A point of order is raised by the hon. Member for Mwinilunga.

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, I do not usually raise points of order, but I am compelled to raise this one.

Madam Speaker, I am seated here, quietly listening to my dear friend from Kalulushi as she is misleading the House and the entire nation. The reason for taking the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to the constituencies is to enable the local people to decide what to do with the money.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member in order …

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Samakayi: … to say that all she is seeing in Kalulushi and elsewhere is the building of classroom blocks when she is supposed to help the people decide whether to build a classroom block or a maternity wing, or to procure desks. Who is instructing her to build classroom blocks? Was that her decision or the decision of the Government?

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling on this matter before the people of this country are deceived.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Hon. Member, you have actually debated your point of order. However, when the hon. Member for Kalulushi started debating, she indicated that the people of Kalulushi are not happy. So, I took it for granted that she was talking about Kalulushi Constituency, where they are using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to construct only classrooms.

Hon. Member for Kalulushi, please, focus on the Budget Speech.

You may continue.

Ms Mulenga: Madam Speaker, everything I am saying here is factual. There are guidelines on how the CDF should be used. For example, we were told to build chiefs’ palaces and procure desks, which has been necessitated by the free education policy.

Madam Speaker, let me talk about the much-proclaimed free education. We have a crisis in this country and, if we are not careful, we will have an uneducated citizenry. We have a situation in which there is one teacher against 120 pupils. We have been talking about employing teachers but, if the Government employs 30,000 teachers and divides them across the country, how many teachers will be sent to Kalulushi? Does that cure the problem? It does not. Further, some pupils go to school hungry.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Mind the microphone.

Ms Mulenga: Let us be sympathetic with our children who walk long distances to access the so-called free education on empty stomachs. Do you think that they will get the required education?

Madam Speaker, –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Do not ask hon. Members questions. Just continue with your debate.

Ms Mulenga: Madam Speaker, school uniforms cost K1,200. Is that free education? It is not.

Madam Speaker, it is on the Floor of this House where the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning celebrated the signing of a deal with the International Monetary Fund (IMF), which we no longer hear about. What did the IMF deal do? It brought about the high costs of fertiliser, fuel and living.

Madam Speaker, we were told that the Zambia National Service (ZNS) would be producing mealie meal, yet the milling plants were constructed by the previous Government and the ZNS has just taken over. Our colleagues said that the mealie meal, which has been reduced by K20 and costs K280, will be sold in Shoprite. Where will the people of Chati access Shoprite? This Budget is only speaking to the rich who can afford mealie meal, and that is why I said that this Government is very irresponsible.

Madam Speaker, in paragraph 132, page 22, of the Budget Speech, on water and sanitation, the hon. Minister says the following:

“Madam, to provide adequate sanitation services, 6,000 households will be connected to sewer networks. The connections are being done by utility companies in Chipata, Kalulushi – ”

Madam Speaker, I took an interest in this because I speak on behalf of the people of Kalulushi. A huge project was being implemented in Twaiteka, but it was later abandoned. However, when we divide 6,000 and the number of districts that are supposed to benefit, maybe, only 100 households will be connected to sewer networks. This Government is very irresponsible. How do the 150 –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Mr Mandandi (Sioma): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity, on behalf of the good people of Sioma, …

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Mandandi: … to express my thoughts on this very progressive Budget.

Madam Speaker, from the outset, I support this Budget because it speaks to the many challenges that our people in rural areas are facing.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Kasenengwa!

You are the next debater. So, you can jot down your points. Do not consult your friends.

May the hon. Member for Sioma continue.

Mr Mandandi: Madam Speaker, as a Member of Parliament from a rural constituency, I will talk about a few issues contained in the Budget Speech, which speaks greatly to the improvement of the welfare of the people in rural areas.

Madam Speaker, I will start with agriculture, which is the main activity of the people in Sioma. Over time, the people of Sioma have depended on subsistence farming. Even the hunger we are grappling with now is not a result of laziness. We have not just been lucky in the past farming seasons, and there was a human-animal conflict, resulting in elephants destroying our crops. So, as a Member of Parliament for that particular area, I will talk about agriculture, tourism and the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

Madam Speaker, there is a Luvale adage that ichishika kuchichabila zala kuilimina, meaning that if you feel cold, the solution is to go and fetch firewood so that you warm yourself. If you are hungry, the solution is to go and cultivate then you will have enough food. That is exactly what this Government has done.

Madam Speaker, not too long ago, there was drama in this House and we saw some hon. Members mistake this House for an agricultural show. This is Parliament, not the branch of an agricultural show where people go to exhibit their farm produce. What did some hon. Members prove by bringing sachets of mealie meal here? What solution did they come up with? Zero! However, the Government came up with a solution and the price of mealie meal has been reduced. I am surprised that those colleagues who came here with sachets of mealie meal have failed to bring a 25 kg bag of mealie meal bought at a cheaper price in Shoprite, and this shows that they are just playing to the political gallery. There is nothing that they can offer. So, I am grateful to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for what we are seeing in the agricultural sector. What the farmers will produce will be commensurate to what they will put in. Previously, when one invested in agriculture, one would just harvest little for one’s consumption, but if one decided to sell some maize, it would be sold at a loss. However, a farmer will now get what is commensurate with what he puts in and with a mark-up. That is commendable. The reduction in the price of fertiliser will encourage the farmers to grow more crops and expand their businesses.

Mr Simumba: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, according to Standing Order No. 65, we need to be factual. The hon. Member debating stated that the people who came to this House with sachets of mealie meal have failed to come with a bag of mealie meal after the price of mealie meal has been reduced, yet he knows that this Government promised the Zambian people that they would be buying mealie meal at K50, …

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Simumba: … but mealie meal costs K280. Is he in order to mislead this honourable House and himself into believing that this Government has reduced mealie meal? In Nakonde, there is no Shoprite and the people are still buying mealie meal at K350.

Madam Speaker, I seek your ruling.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

I think, the context in which the hon. Member for Sioma put it is different from what you have just brought in. The hon. Member said that when people were saying that there was too much hunger, somebody came with a sachet of mealie meal, but when the price of mealie meal went down, nobody came to show that. Further, hon. Member for Nakonde, you have debated your point of order. It is not admissible, and you are the one who brought the sachet of mealie meal.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: May the hon. Member for Sioma continue.

Mr Mandandi: Madam Speaker, let me now talk about livestock. In the Budget Speech, the hon. Minister talked about a platform that is being developed in the livestock sector targeted at protecting animals, and for efficient management of livestock. Animals will be registered …

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mufulira, your voice is too loud.

May the hon. Member for Sioma continue.

Mr Mandandi: … to enhance traceability and identification. Farmers have many times lost their livestock due to stock theft and mismanagement. Further, some people did not know the importance of having particular breeds in their kraals. However, through the new platform, the farmers will be helped, going forward. Let me be a bit slow so that those on the left side can hear. The days of those who were stealing cattle are now numbered because the new system will enable farmers to track their animals as they graze from point A to point B or stray away from their natural habitats. So, the people of Sioma, who are proud cattle ranchers, feel that the new system is a welcome move.

Madam Speaker, let me talk about tourism before I talk about the CDF. The Government proposes to come up with reforms in conservation and the management of tourism. This is a welcome move because the people of Sioma have been grappling with the invasion of elephants, as I mentioned. So, I am very happy because the reforms will address the conservation of elephants so that we do not coexist with the elephants in our homes. Instead, the elephants will be confined to their natural habitat, which is the park.

Madam Speaker, lastly, let me talk about the CDF. Some people are saying that it is non-functional. That is a figment of their imagination. Otherwise, the CDF is real. I am a first termer and I found seventy-seven schools in Sioma but, out of those, only twenty-five were permanent structures and some pupils were learning under trees. However, in the two years that I have been a Member of Parliament, we have built eighteen classrooms, ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mandandi: ... six maternity annexes, four water schemes, and many health posts, and we are doing more. So, the people rubbishing the CDF are just not being sincere. If they have failed to manage the CDF, that is their fault, and they can surrender it to some of us who are desperate for it.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mandandi: Madam Speaker, for the first time, I will put a smile on the face of His Royal Highness, who is socked every rainy season because the people on your left failed to build him a decent palace. Using the CDF, I will build a decent palace for the Chief. What type of people were these (referring to PF hon. Members), who could not even take care of their Chiefs? I would say the previous Government was a hoax. It was just the semblance of a Government, not a Government. Using the CDF, I will work on the Sinjembela/Nangweshi Road and many other feeder roads.

Madam Speaker, with those few remarks, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Budget.

Madam Speaker, I am glad that we have been given one more chance to do something peculiar in this House. We await the price of mealie meal going down to K50 so that we can bring a bag of mealie and say that it has been reduced.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

The Committee on Privileges and Absences will deal with what the hon. Member for Nakonde did. You are not supposed to bring any sample here because, one day, somebody may come with a knife as a sample. So, samples are not supposed to be brought to the House.

May you focus on the content of the Budget Speech.

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, that is the exact response I wanted. We are not allowed to bring things into the House, but I heard someone advocating for people to bring a bag of mealie meal here bought at a cheaper price. I needed an answer like the one that you have just given us. Thank you very much. I really appreciate.

Madam Speaker, I will concentrate on agriculture and health because what is happening in these sectors does not reflect what is on the ground. The projections that were given in the agricultural sector do not reflect what is on the ground and what the farmers in Kasenengwa are expecting. The budgets for agriculture and health lack tactics and do not inspire the farmers in Kasenengwa. We were told that in 2022/2023, this country produced 3.2 million tonnes of maize, but look at what is happening in rural constituencies. If, indeed, we produced 3.2 million tonnes of maize, why are people eating cooked mangoes? I grew up in my constituency, but it is the first time in my life to see a child eat a cooked mango, and I shed tears.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, can you connect that to the Budget Speech.

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, that is related to the Budget Speech, where the Government said that this country has produced enough maize. If we are food-secure, why are the people in our constituencies starving? Is it because we have exported what was in the reserves? Who is our priority? Is it the foreigners out there or our people in this country? Why are the people in Mboza Ward cooking mangoes and bananas if we have 3.2 million tonnes of maize? Does that –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, lower your voice (laughs).

You may continue.

Ms Mabonga interjected.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Mfuwe!

I was telling the hon. Member on the Floor to lower his voice.

You may continue, hon. Member.

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, permission to allow the hon. Member seated in front of me to move.

Laughter

Mr Twasa: This is the way I speak. I do not know how to whisper.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

I think, you can adjust.

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, I know he wants to distract me, but let me continue.

Madam Speaker, –

Eng. Nzovu interjected.

Mr Twasa: He is saying that I am a health hazard.

Madam Speaker, if we produced 3.2 million tonnes of maize, why are people starving? Wherever you go, people are talking about hunger, and that means that there is a shortage of maize in this country. You may give people rice, but the absence of maize or mealie meal means that there is starvation in the country. So, we are not speaking about what is happening on the ground. We should be factual, and we need to be very sympathetic to the ordinary person in our constituencies.

Mr Mbao interjected.

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, what I am talking about is on page 6 of the Budget, where it was stated that the country produced enough maize for itself. Again, in the Budget Speech, it was stated that most of our farmers exported their maize. Which farmer in Kasenengwa or the Eastern Province as a whole exported his maize? To where did he export it? So, the Budget Address does not speak to what is happening in the constituencies. There are no farmers in Kasenengwa who exported maize. So, we are not being factual, and this is very upsetting to the people in our constituencies. There is now hunger because this country has exported the bulk of our maize. An hon. Minister stated on television that our neighbours were offering us Dollars for maize at the expense of an ordinary person in Kasenengwa who is now cooking mangoes to survive. The caring Government has sold all its maize to the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC).

Mr Mbao: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

There was a ruling to the effect that we are not taking any points of order. You can jot down notes. You will be given the opportunity on Friday to respond to the issues that are being raised.

Hon. Member for Kasenengwa, be factual because when you say –

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hold on, hon. Member.

By you saying that people are eating mangoes, it is like all the people in the country or in Kasenengwa are eating mangoes. Can you, please, qualify the statement.

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, the people in Kasenengwa are cooking raw mangoes, and I witnessed. When I heard that people were eating mangoes, I did not believe it until I saw a small child eating a cooked green mango in Chiponda Village under Chief Madzimawe in Makungwa Ward last Saturday, three days ago. So, I am basing this debate on facts. When I saw people eating mangoes, tears rolled down my cheeks because I could not believe it, …

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Twasa: … and this is a fact.

Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government, being tactical, should give us something new. That is the appeal of the people of Kasenengwa. We will continue talking about the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) and the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), but are they reflecting what is happening on the ground? The answer is no, and let me tell you why.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

The hon. Member on the Floor, you are addressing me, not the hon. Members seated. Direct your debate to me. Do not involve other hon. Members because they are not even allowed to debate while seated.

You may continue.

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, let me face this way (towards PF hon. Members). We expected the people of Kasenengwa to benefit from FISP and the CDF. I thought that the people of Kasenengwa would be given soft loans from the loans and grants component to enable them to buy fertiliser and farming inputs. This Government should come up with a proper database because what is happening at the moment is that two people form a co-operative and put their children. They then get grants purporting to be a co-operative with fifteen members, yet it is only one family benefitting. However, a system can be put in place in which this money can be channelled towards soft loans for agriculture and people can get three or four bags or a maximum of, maybe, K3,000 per household. That way, many people would benefit from the K7 million meant for loans and grants. We are not talking about exporting maize, but ensuring that there is food security so that each family can have maize at the household level. That would benefit many people and help us a lot.

Madam Speaker, coming to the issue of roads, we are happy that the hon. Minister allocated money to the road sector. However, Musolo Road in Kasenengwa is giving us many problems because it has not been worked on in a long time.

Mr Samakayi: Question!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Wind up your debate.

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, there was a contract for that road, but this Government cancelled it. The road was supposed to be worked on under capital projects, as it is in a bad state.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Madam Speaker, I will concentrate on pages 1, 18 and 34, and paragraph 193 of the Budget Speech.

Madam Speaker, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government left the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) at K1.6 million but, next year, it will be K30.6 million. What is the difference between K1.6 million and K30.6 million? I will talk about the realities of the CDF in Upangoma Ward. There is a 1 x 3 classroom block at Mutunda and a clinic at slab level, and we got some votes, but other people got zero. That is the reality. There is a clinic at Mutaa and the people are now saying that lunani mulyani wa ndonga, meaning that they now have injections that they had forgotten about in the past ten years.

Madam Speaker, in paragraph 124 of the Budget Speech, the hon. Minister has allocated money for medical supplies for next year. However, this year, we had medicine delivered from India and Egypt. What are our colleagues talking about? These things were not done in the past, and I congratulate the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, in some polling stations, the United Party for National Development (UPND) got good votes while the other team had zero. In some instances, our colleagues, polling agents voted for them. So, they got two votes. Those are the realities of the CDF in rural areas.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, please, concentrate on the Budget Speech.

You may continue.

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, that was on pages 34 and 35 of the Budget Speech on the allocation of the CDF. The PF Government left the CDF at K1.6 million but, next year, it will be K30.6 million.

Eng. Milupi: Katunda!

Mr Mutelo: I am hearing “Katunda”. On page 18, paragraph 100 of the Budget Speech, is where there is mention of the Tateyoyo/Katunda Road, meaning that there is light at the end of the tunnel for the Katunda/Lukulu/Watopa/Mwembezhi Road next year. Everyone here, in the House, was happy with the mention of the Tateyoyo/Katunda Road. The New Dawn Government will work on that road, and there is hope now.

Madam Speaker, some hon. Members were saying that they only received K7 million, but that is because they have not been using the money. If they are not using the money, what do they expect? When you are given food and you do not eat it, why would you ask for more lumps of nshima? Go and use the CDF.

Madam Speaker, according to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, worrying about police vehicles will be a thing of the past. What else? Ki lika mañi hape?

Madam Speaker, on page 1, paragraph 4, of the Budget Speech, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning talked about debt restructuring, and I congratulate him and his team. He just came back from France and people are congratulating him. Why should we be annoyed when the creditors have given us breathing space? What is the problem? Do our colleagues want us to get annoyed about that? The hon. Minister had gone to Morocco, and another agreement has been secured on the debt that our colleagues left. So, we have been given breathing space. That is why we are celebrating, and it is for our colleagues, good as well. If we had not reached a debt restructuring agreement, the python would have swallowed us. No one was going to be talking.

Madam Speaker, in Mitete, there was a shortfall of 12,000 desks, but the distribution of 4,300 desks is ongoing. Further, K30.6 million has been allocated to the CDF. So, we will be given the difference. Using the CDF, we will build classroom blocks, clinics, staff houses for Agriculture Extension Officers and veterinary officers. That is what this Budget entails. K30.6 million minus K1.6 million equals K29 million. If it was in football, it would have been 29-0. Where I come from, we say 29 ka noto.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, what does that mean?

Mr Mutelo: It means 29-0.

Madam Speaker, this Budget is very good.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Defence and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Lufuma): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1804 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 19^th October, 2023.

____________