Thursday, 26th October, 2023

Thursday, 26^thOctober, 2023

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER

PRESENCE IN THE PUBLIC GALLERY OF PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM LITERACY SCHOOL IN THE PUBLIC GALLERY

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence in the Public Gallery of pupils as well as teachers from Literacy School in Chilanga District and Shalom School in Lusaka District.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

I thank you.

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MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

MR SIMUMBA, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR NAKONDE, ON HER HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT, MRS NALUMANGO, ON THE COST OF MEALIE MEAL IN NAKONDE

Mr Simumba (Nakonde): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, I am grateful for this opportunity on behalf of the good people of Nakonde. The matter I wish to raise is directed to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, the price of mealie meal in Nakonde is K400. We hear that other people in some places are being sold cheap mealie meal. The people of Nakonde would like to know why this Government is not providing them with the purportedly cheap mealie meal so that they can also benefit like other people. Why is it that the people of Nakonde and Muchinga Province, in general, have not received the purported cheap mealie meal? In the same country, some people are buying mealie meal at K400 while others are buying it at K230. Why is it like that?

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious guidance.

Mr Andeleki: Question!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you can either file in a question or move a Motion. You can use another avenue to bring up that issue. Even tomorrow during the Vice-President’s Question Time, you can raise the issue.

MR KAFWAYA, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR LUNTE, ON HER HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT, MRS NALUMANGO, ON ALLEGED DEEPENING DICTATORSHIP IN THE COUNTRY

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for according me this opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance on Her Honour the Vice-President, Mrs W. K. Mutale Nalumango. This matter of urgent public importance is on the deepening dictatorship in the nation.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I have three examples to offer. I want to indicate that dictatorship is the Executive arm of the Government disregarding laws in undertaking national business.

Mr Kambita: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, as I speak, the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government has sustained illegal audits and is disregarding court orders.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Hon. Member, matters of urgent public importance are supposed to be stated, not debated. You are now debating the matter. We are interested in your stating the matter, which is supposed to be in summary form, rather than debating it.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I do not know if I took two minutes, but that was less than two minutes. I promise to take less than two minutes again.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

You should get the concept that you are not supposed to debate, but state the matter.

You can go ahead.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I did state, for the avoidance of doubt, that dictatorship is the Government acting outside laws. I was giving examples in which the Government has acted outside laws, thereby indicating that there is a growing dictatorship in our Republic.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, let me give my final example. You may have observed how Mr Sean Tembo’s gate was ransacked by the police.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

What is the matter?

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence with regard to Her Honour the Vice-President addressing this matter, as our country is on the verge of collapse because of dictatorship.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, that is not an urgent matter. You should have found another way of bringing that issue to the attention of Her Honour the Vice-President. Further, you have brought out two issues. You talked about the deepening dictatorship and Mr Sean Tembo, which are different issues altogether. You are supposed to bring one matter to the House. Moreover, like I mentioned, that matter is not one of urgent public importance. You can find another way of ensuring that the issue reaches Her Honour the Vice-President.

MR J. E. BANDA, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR PETAUKE CENTRAL, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HEALTH, MRS MASEBO, ON THE INCREASED CHILD MORTALITY RATE IN PETAUKE CENTRAL

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity, on behalf of the good people of Petauke Central, to raise a matter of urgent public importance directed to the hon. Minister of Health.

Madam Speaker, the people in Petauke Central Constituency chose a Member of Parliament to represent and protect them.

Mr Andeleki: What is the issue?

Mr J. E. Banda: Wait, you have your own constituency.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, focus on the matter. Do not involve others.

You may continue.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, the people in my constituency –

Power supply was interrupted for a few seconds in the Assembly Chamber.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You may continue.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, due to maternal deaths, no one is allowed to give birth at home in Petauke Central, especially if it is a first-time pregnancy. Right now, the people in the constituency are scared of giving birth at the hospital because they feel it is safer to give birth at home than at the hospital. Statistics are there to prove that not less than five new-borns die every day in Petauke Central.

Interruptions

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Health –

Mr Andeleki interjected.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, I am asking for your protection from the hon. Member for Katombola. The people of Petauke Central are waiting to hear a very important issue regarding the babies who are dying, who would have one day become Members of Parliament and so forth, but he wants to politicise the issue. Moreover, he has his own constituency. I do not know which Zambia Institute of Advanced Legal Education (ZIALE) he went to.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

I advised you to focus on the matter. Do not involve others.

Mr B. Mpundu: No, alibelela uyu.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We are not supposed to debate while seated. I am listening attentively to your matter.

Mr B. Mpundu: Alilya umupola uyu!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Nkana, you are not supposed to shout.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for your protection.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Health in order to let the management at Petauke District Hospital, especially the District Health Director (DHD), who is in charge, to let babies die every day? There are more than five child deaths per day, and the statistics are there. Even the women waiting to give birth sleep outside the hospital. The DHD is also a mother and she knows the importance of providing proper healthcare to expectant mothers. Furthermore, I am asking the hon. Minister to go and address the people because I cannot allow the current situation to continue.

Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, I was trying to follow you. I do not know whether the issue is about child mortality or maternal mortality.

Hon. Minister, are you able to comment on the babies who are dying in Petauke Central or will you will issue a ministerial statement later?

Mrs Masebo indicated assent.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister will issue a ministerial statement next week on Thursday.

Mr J. E. Banda clapped.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

We do not clap in the House. We are not allowed to clap.

MR MUNG’ANDU, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR CHAMA SOUTH, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HEALTH, MRS MASEBO, ON ANTHRAX OUTBREAK IN THE EASTERN PROVINCE

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, let me start by appreciating Her Honour the Vice-President. Last week, I engaged her over the hunger situation in Chama South and, as a mother, she assured me that the Government would look into it, and we are grateful.

Madam Speaker, my matter of urgent public importance concerns the outbreak of anthrax not only in the Southern Province, but also in the Eastern Province. I am sure, we are seeing what is going on in the Southern Province, but we have confirmed cases of anthrax in Lumezi. As you are aware, Chama South, through Mapamba Ward, shares a boundary with Lumezi Constituency. However, the source of the anthrax, particularly in the Eastern Province, is not well documented. My worry is that if this situation is not arrested timely, we are likely to lose more lives. If our people see a carcass of a wild animal, they will share it within seconds regardless of the message that we take to them.

Madam Speaker, I direct this matter to the Ministry of Health. What plans has the hon. Minister put in place to ensure that information is disseminated in the newly discovered infested areas in the Eastern Province, in particular, Lumezi and part of Chama? I know that it has been reported that both animals and human beings in those areas have been infected by the dangerous disease.

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious guidance.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, just for clarity, are there people who have been infected with anthrax? If so, we are looking at the Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, yes, there are confirmed cases of anthrax in Lumezi.

Mr B. Mpundu: Of human beings?

Mr Mung’andu: Yes, human beings. I am confirming that. I am sure, the hon. Minister has that information.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: This issue was addressed yesterday, particularly as concerns the constituencies in the Southern Province, and it would be better tackled by the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock. I do not know whether he is around. If he is not around, I do not know whether the –

Mr Sikumba: He is here.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock, what is your comment on the outbreak of anthrax in the Eastern Province? Will you comment now or, maybe, later?

The Minister of Fisheries and Livestock (Mr Chikote): Madam Speaker, yesterday, there was a question concerning anthrax, and I assured hon. Members of Parliament that we are on the ground in the districts on which we have received reports. I also assured the House that we are working as a team with the Ministry of Health and Ministry of Tourism to respond to the reports of outbreaks that we are getting from various districts. I wish to inform the hon. Member that, today, we received a report concerning the outbreak of anthrax in Lumezi, and I have already instructed our frontline staff to verify that. As soon as they do, we will vaccinate all the animals.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Speaker, yesterday, the hon. Minister laboured to answer questions on the outbreak of anthrax in the Southern Province. Unfortunately, there are now suspected cases of the disease in the Eastern Province, in particular, Lumezi District, which is under Chief Mwanya, and there is wildlife in that area. Further, our people there usually consume game meat. How is the ministry going to contain the situation in the event that the disease is spread through the consumption of carcasses?

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I have stated that we, as a ministry, are not responding to the outbreak of anthrax alone, but are collaborating with officials from the Ministry of Tourism, who are the experts in issues of wildlife. I am in charge of domestic animals, and the Ministry of Health is in charge of human diseases. So, we are putting our heads together and will respond to the challenges that the hon. Member mentioned. At the moment, we are collaborating with the Ministry of Tourism, which is in charge of wild animals.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, there seems to be no pattern in the spread of anthrax. The disease was in the Southern Province and, now, it is in the Eastern Province. We will not be shocked if it is in the Western Province next because there is a lot of cross-border movement of animals from Angola and Namibia. Has the ministry set up surveillance points to prevent the disease from spreading?

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for this question.

Madam Speaker, there is usually an outbreak of anthrax during this period when there is no pasture for animals. Yesterday, I stated that the spores can be in the soil for a long time. So, when animals are grazing, they get the bacteria. However, we have put in place a number of measures to ensure that the disease does not spread. We are carrying out massive vaccinations and restricting the movement of animals from one district to another. We are also giving farmers information so that they know what they are supposed to do to prevent the disease. Therefore, I call upon hon. Members of Parliament, who represent the good people in our constituencies, to help us to disseminate information to our people so that our people do the right thing. We are also providing vaccines to enable extension officers to respond to cases of anthrax like the ones in Lumezi.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, since as a farmer and Member of Parliament, I do not have the information we are supposed to disseminate to the farmers, I await that information so that I can disseminate it to the people in my constituency and educate the people at my farm.

Madam Speaker, butcheries in markets and other places sell meat willy-nilly. I have not seen inspectors check if the meat at butcheries is good for consumption or if it is anthrax-free and, yesterday, and even today, I have failed to eat beef. What measures has the Government put in place to ensure that the meat being sold at Kabwata Market, in Chilenje, Chelston, Kabanana, and Mwanamainda is anthrax-free?

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for this question.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member must understand that the livestock sector was neglected for some time.

Ms Mulenga indicated dissent.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Chikote: I am sure, the hon. Member who is surprised knows that when it comes to budgetary allocations, the ministry has suffered a lot, but the issues being raised are very serious. Madam Speaker, in responding to the issue raised by the hon. Member, we are looking at a long-term –

Mr Musonda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Ms Mulenga: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kapyanga: On a point of order, Madam Speaker

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

I am trying to get the hon. Minister’s response, but so many points of order are being raised. Let the hon. Minister finish his sentence. If you want to raise a point of order, just indicate, and I will notice you.

Hon. Minister, finish your sentence so that I do not lose track of what you are talking about.

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, we are putting in place long-term measures to respond to the outbreak of anthrax, and there is a need for inspectors to monitor all butcheries because that is one way we will respond to that concern. That is a serious concern because people are now scared of consuming meat because of the way we are managing our system. So, we are on the right track and will ensure that all butcheries are monitored. I encourage people to go to butcheries that were cleared by the experts and have certificates, not to those that do not have certificates. In addition, in the new –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

There is an indication for a point of order by the hon. Member for Mpika.

A point of order is raised.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock has been a Minister for two years and three months now, and Zambians have been expecting good service delivery from his ministry. Is he in order, therefore, to continue coming to the Floor of this House with lamentations instead of solutions? He is lamenting that his ministry was under-financed in the past. We are not here to discuss the past.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is your point of order?

Mr Kapyanga: Is he in order to offer lamentations to Zambians instead of solutions?

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling. Otherwise, he should join Mr Miles Sampa.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Can you, please, withdraw the last statement.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, I withdraw it, but is he in order to continue offering Zambians lamentations instead of solutions? We are fast approaching 2026.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

May you resume your seat.

This point of order was actually not cited. Moreover, the responses the hon. Minister gives come from his ministry, and we cannot argue because he is the one running the ministry. So, as far as we are concerned, the hon. Minister gets information from his ministry and shares it with the House. Unless, hon. Member for Mpika, you have proof that it is not correct, your point of order was misplaced and is not admissible. It is not cited and there is no proof.

Hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock, sorry for that. I cut your short. You may continue.

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, before I was interrupted, I was about to conclude.

Madam Speaker, after we have reviewed some laws, I will present a Bill in this House. The people selling beef must have the necessary documents verified by the Department of Veterinary Services before they are allowed to conduct such businesses. The law that we are going to introduce will help us to combat what the hon. Member stated about people just selling meat without proper documentation. So, to comfort Zambians, we are doing a lot to ensure that they are confident when consuming livestock products.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, this matter was discussed at length yesterday. Looking at today’s Order Paper, we have a lot of work to do. Therefore, we make progress.

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

CHOLERA SITUATION IN ZAMBIA

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, thank you for according me the opportunity to update this august House and the general public on the cholera situation in the country.

Madam Speaker, the House may recall that on Thursday, 19^th October, 2023, during the segment on matters of urgent public importance, you directed that I issue a ministerial statement on the outbreak of cholera in the country. The directive followed a matter of urgent public importance raised by Mr Anthony Mumba, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kantanshi Constituency.

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that currently, the Government, through the Ministry of Health, is responding to outbreaks of cholera in Lusaka and Nsumbu districts of Zambia. Furthermore, multi-sectoral response teams are putting in place various measures to avoid further in-country spread as well as importation of cholera from neighbouring countries, some of which are currently experiencing outbreaks.

Madam Speaker, allow me to remind this august House that the New Dawn Administration, through the leadership of His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, attaches great importance to securing the health of the nation. There has been a number of cholera outbreaks in various parts of the country this year. Firstly, it was in the Eastern Province, specifically in Vubwi, Chipata and Chipangali districts. The House may recall that between January and April 2023, 146 people were affected and four died. Secondly, it was in Luapula Province between April and June 2023, where 186 people were affected and five died. Thirdly, it was in Mpulungu District in the Northern Province between February to June 2023, where 341 cases and five deaths were reported. The above outbreaks have since been contained. However, we continue to conduct advocacy and community sensitisation to ensure that there is no recurrence of outbreaks.

Madam Speaker, there has been an outbreak of cholera in the Northern Province since August 2023, specifically in Nsumbu area of Nsama District. However, I am pleased to report that we have made good progress in that area, and today, 26^th October, 2023, marks seventeen days of zero reporting. This is the second outbreak the district has recorded this year, with 176 cases and five cholera related deaths. Seventy-three cases and three deaths were reported in February. On 18^th August, 2023, I issued a press statement and announced that in Lusaka District, one case of cholera affecting a twenty-one-year-old of Kanyama area had been reported. It is pleasing to report that the young lady who was presented to the healthcare facility in shock was resuscitated and has since recovered.

Madam Speaker, our health teams are on the ground ensuring that cases identified in the community are managed timely. We have continued to conduct contact-tracing, community engagement, health education, chlorine distribution for household use and environmental decontamination. As of 25^th October, 2023, we had observed a few cholera cases in Lusaka. This situation demands a swift and comprehensive response from both the Government and the public. I would like to provide an update on the current situation and outline the measures being taken to combat this outbreak.

Current Situation

Madam Speaker, as regards the number of cases, to date, there have been twenty-six confirmed cases of cholera in Lusaka, and we are deeply saddened to report that two deaths as a result of this outbreak, one of which occurred in the community, have been reported. Our heartfelt condolences to the families affected by this tragedy.

Madam Speaker, cholera is a water-borne disease that spreads rapidly in unsanitary conditions. We have identified specific areas in Lusaka where the outbreak is most concentrated, and our efforts are focused on those high-risk zones. So far, cases have been identified in Kanyama, Chawama, Meanwood Ndeke, Chipata Compound and Bauleni. Students in a boarding house in Chalala among whom an increase in diarrhoeal cases was noted are being investigated. Our teams are also investigating contacts to a student from Evelyn Hone College of Applied Arts and Commerce who tested positive during a rapid diagnostic test.

Madam Speaker, the surge in cholera cases has put a significant strain on our healthcare system. Hospitals and clinics are working tirelessly to provide care to those affected, and we are doing our utmost to ensure availability of all the required resources or commodities.

Madam Speaker, the Government, through a multi-sectoral response, has put in place the following measures:

Heightened Surveillance and Contact Tracing

Madam Speaker, rapid response teams are on the ground actively searching for cases and tracking contacts of confirmed cases for testing and management.

Public Awareness

Madam Speaker, public awareness campaigns are being conducted through door-to-door sensitisation and media programmes to educate our citizens on the importance of maintaining good hygiene, using safe water sources and proper food handling and preparation. Household chlorine is being distributed to members of the affected communities. I urge communities to buy chlorine. Some people have money to buy beer, but they say that they do not have money to buy chlorine. The Government will continue distributing chlorine, but it is about time people took responsibility. Issues of hygiene are personal.

Sanitation Measures

Madam Speaker, we have intensified promotion of good sanitation in the affected areas, including the regular cleaning of public places, correct disposal of waste and ensuring access to clean drinking water. We continue asking the community to drink boiled or chlorinated water.

Medical Services

Madam Speaker, we are increasing the availability of medical services and supplies in the affected areas. This includes the establishment of cholera treatment centres to manage and treat affected individuals even in areas not yet affected by the outbreak. We are taking a proactive approach as regards treatment.

Collaboration

Madam Speaker, we are working with the local authorities, non-governmental organisations (NGOs) and international partners to enhance our response efforts.

District and Provincial Epidemic Preparedness Management Committees

Madam Speaker, provincial and district Epidemic Preparedness Prevention Control and Management Committees, and Emergency Operation Centres across the country have been activated to enhance better co-ordination for preparedness and response to any potential cholera outbreak. You will recall that this response is at the highest level chaired by none other than Her Honour the Vice-President when the need becomes urgent. For now, we have activated all district and provincial preparedness and prevention committees, and the national committee under Her Honour the Vice-President is ever ready.

Capacity Building

Madam Speaker, cholera preparedness and response from our entire frontline health workers in all the districts in the country is being activated. Our teams on the ground are well prepared to detect, confirm and respond to any suspected case of cholera in a timely and efficient manner. You will note that we are not panicking, this time around, because our teams throughout the country are learning to get prepared for epidemics. I thank the Office of the Vice-President and the efficient organisation, the Zambia National Public Health Institute, which has become mature in its work of preparedness.

Madam Speaker, the causes of cholera in our country are the following:

consumption of contaminated water;

consumption of contaminated food;

inadequate water and sanitation facilities;

poor solid waste management; and

poor personal hygiene.

Madam Speaker, cholera is caused by poor hygiene and what we consume. For this reason, we are discouraging people from buying foods on the street, especially with the onset of the rainy season. Let us take issues of health personal.

Madam Speaker, may I reiterate that the supply of clean and safely managed water as well as adequate sanitation facilities remain key in the prevention of cholera and other diarrhoeal diseases, and if we are to achieve our long-term goal of eliminating cholera by 2025. In this regard, I wish to call upon our colleagues in the Ministry of Education, the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, and the councils to help us.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, allow me to remind the hon. Members of this august House and, through them, the people in their constituencies that cholera can be prevented by employing the following measures:

Boiling or Chlorinating Water

Madam Speaker, I urge our citizens to boil water before drinking it to ensure that it is safe. Alternatively, they can add chlorine to their drinking water.

Hand Hygiene

Madam Speaker, frequent hand-washing with soap and water before and after eating as well as after using a toilet is essential in preventing cholera.

Proper Food Handling and Preparation

Madam Speaker, proper food handling and preparation are critical to preventing contamination. I urge everyone to avoid buying and eating food from the streets. Further, leftover food must be well covered and heated at the time of eating.

Avoiding Large Gatherings

Madam Speaker, people should avoid large gatherings, including funerals, in high-risk areas. Burials of persons who die from cholera should be managed by the State through the Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development.

Madam Speaker, the Government, led by none other than the Global Cholera Ambassador His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, remains fully committed to containing and ultimately eliminating the cholera outbreak. We understand the grave impact cholera has had on the lives and wellbeing of our citizens, and we are doing everything within our power to address the situation.

Madam Speaker, my clarion call goes to all people in Zambia to take personal responsibility for maintaining good hygiene and adhering to the preventive measures we have outlined. The Government will work tirelessly to overcome this crisis and ensure the health and safety of its people.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, you are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement issued by the hon. Minister of Health.

Mr Charles Mulenga (Kwacha): Madam Speaker, we have continued witnessing street vending not only in Lusaka and Kitwe, but throughout the country. As a result of street vending, a lot of refuse is generated and that creates a conducive atmosphere for the spread of this serious illness. The Ministry of Health can collaborate with the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development to eradicate street vending. We do not want to lose lives because life is precious. However, as we have heard, one of the causes of cholera is dirtiness. So, what measures is the ministry putting in place to eradicate street vending in most parts of our country?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I will focus on the questions under the Ministry of Health. The hon. Member can file in a question on street vending directed to the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, Hon. Gary Nkombo, who is seated next to me.

Madam Speaker, I indicated that we have a multi-sectoral committee headed by the Chairperson, who is the Vice-President of Zambia. In that committee, there is the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation, which deals with water; the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, which deals with garbage collection; the Ministry of Health, which deals with outbreaks; and the Ministry of Education. So, that committee is at the ministerial level. Then there are committees at the provincial and district levels, and we are now pushing to have committees at the constituency and ward levels.

Madam Speaker, under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), there is an allocation that every district is supposed to use for emergencies. People are not supposed to wait for the Office of the Vice-President, but are supposed to use that money. So, when there is a disaster in the health sector or whatever sector, the district level deals with it.

Madam Speaker, regarding health preparedness as a response, I want to put it on record that the Ministry of Health is more than ready. The ministry had a challenge of materials or commodities, but that is no longer an issue. We are preparing technically and logistically, and collaborating with various partners and Government departments.

Madam Speaker, regarding what else needs to be done, it is about time every citizen of Zambia took responsibility. If I am a housewife, I should boil drinking water and ensure that every member of my household drinks water that is boiled and clean. If one does not have time to boil water, one can buy chlorine. However, as the Government, we are distributing chlorine in hot spots. Further, our partners and business houses are donating chlorine. However, people should not wait for the Government to give them chlorine because it costs only K3 and K5, and they can afford it. Let us leave the donations to the elderly women and mothers who cannot afford to buy chlorine because most of us can afford to buy it.

Madam Speaker, when somebody dies of cholera, people must not gather for the funeral because cholera is contagious and it spreads very quickly. So, people should avoid such funerals and should not bury people who die of cholera, as that should be done by the Government. That is my guidance. Further, people should avoid handshakes, especially in areas where there is cholera. I know that as Zambians, we like greeting one another, but let us change our style of greeting. There are many forms of greeting, and we do not have to greet one another at funerals.

Madam Speaker, on the issue of street vending, we know how much the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, and the Government in general have worked to remove vendors from the streets because of the dangers, and I thank those who support this. However, my appeal to those who criticise the move is that these are some of the things that happen. When the Government says that let us not do this, people jump and politicise the issue, but we have to be careful. At the moment, we are containing the situation, but it can get out of hand if we are not careful. So, we make noise because we do not want the situation to get out of hand.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chitotela: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Before we go to the next hon. Member, there is an indication for a point of order by the hon. Member for Pambashe.

A point of order is raised.

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, my point of order is in relation to Standing Order No. 131(7) and Standing Order No. 202(2).

Madam Speaker, Standing Order No. 131(7) states as follows:

“A point of order shall relate to the interpretation or enforcement of a law on privileges of members, or the procedure or practice regulating the business of the House.”

Madam Speaker, my point of order is on the privileges of hon. Members. Again, Standing Order No. 202 talks about the privileges of Members.

Madam Speaker, the Patriotic Front (PF) party that sponsored me here as a Member of Parliament has given me the responsibility to stand in as Leader of the Opposition in the absence of Hon. Mundubile, who is not here.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

What is the point of order?

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia, Article –

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I wanted a bit of silence.

Madam Speaker, Article 74 of the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia prescribes how hon. Members become Members of Parliament and attend Parliament. Is this House in order to continue providing privileges to the former Member of Parliament for Matero, Hon. Bwalya Sampa, who was expelled by my party and the –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

I want to listen to the point of order and understand it. Please, give the hon. Member the chance.

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, my party wrote a letter to Mr Sampa, the PF Member of Parliament, dated 24^th October, 2023, informing him that he had been expelled, and Parliament was furnished with this document (waving a paper in his hands). After that, my party went to court and obtained an injunction, and I want to quote the injunction.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

I think, you are complicating your point of order by bringing in other issues. Can you, please, raise the point of order.

Mr Chitotela: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, is this House in order to continue giving privileges to the expelled hon. Member of Parliament for Matero, whose expulsion has been confirmed by the courts of law …

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Chitotela: … and, to this date –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Interruptions

Ms Mulenga interjected.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member for Kalulushi and the hon. Members at the back, you are not supposed to debate while seated. Can we have order. I have given the Floor to the hon. Member for Pambashe and he has not finished raising his point of order, but people are debating while seated.

Hon. Member, please, conclude your point of order so that I make the ruling.

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, my point of order is: Is this House in order to continue giving the privileges of Members of Parliament, according to the Standing Order I cited, to Mr Bwalya Miles Sampa, who has been expelled?

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, we are behind time. I reserve my ruling. I will come back at a later stage to make the ruling. So, we make progress and, please, ask specific questions so that the hon. Minister does not give lengthy explanations and as many hon. Members as possible can ask questions. Ask specific questions so that you get specific answers.

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker, I will not debate the ministerial statement. I thank the hon. Minister for the answers she is providing.

Madam Speaker, has the ministry come up with surveillance centres to trace people who were in contact with our colleagues who are affected by the outbreak of cholera?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, indeed, contact tracing is being done in an effective manner. For example, when somebody from a particular area is admitted, we go to that area, map it, distribute chlorine and test everybody. I talked about two deaths, but did not say that the second person died because he had an infection. He did not go to the clinic on time. By the time he was being taken to the clinic, he was dead. So, through this question, I urge the public to rush anyone with diarrhoea to the nearest hospital because I am told that the incubation period of cholera is ten days. Sometimes, one might not know that one has the disease. So, it is important that people get information and react quickly by going to the nearest clinic.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to ask the hon. Minister a supplementary question.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister is aware that there are quite a number of unplanned settlements in Zambia, such as those in Kitwe, Lusaka and other major cities, and we have witnessed an increase in people who are building in unplanned areas. Obviously, that creates a challenge of sanitation because there is no piped water in most unplanned settlements. Does the ministry have a strategy, in the conversations that it has been having with the inter-ministerial committee, for dealing with the problem, in terms of short-term interventions, in unplanned settlements?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I think, the emphasis is on water that one drinks, the type of sanitary conditions and the personal hygiene practice of ensuring that one washes one’s hands before and after eating, and after using the toilet.

Madam Speaker, the Department of Water Supply and Sanitation under the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation provides water in areas where there is no water. For example, the water company here, in Lusaka, from time to time, takes water bowsers to areas where there is no water. Those are some of the things being done and, where there is a need, we even sink boreholes. However, we cannot sink boreholes in areas like Kanyama or Matero because the water table in those areas is high and there is always the danger of water and faecal matter mixing. So, the water company distributes water to areas where there is no water. However, that is a short-term measure, especially given that when we have floods, the Government, through various departments, moves in and assists.

Madam Speaker, local authorities and the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development are in charge of garbage collection. However, I appeal to the people in markets, bus stations, other public places and households to keep their surroundings clean and dispose of their waste in a manner that does not spread the disease. The bottom line of this issue is about individual citizens looking after themselves and their families.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Anakoka: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: There is an indication for a point of order by the hon. Member for Luena.

A point of order is raised.

Mr Anakoka: Madam Speaker, it is not my desire to disturb the flow of the debate, but I rise on a point of order that is of a constitutional nature.

Madam Speaker, Article 74, Sub-Article 2, of the Constitution endows the biggest opposition party with the privilege of having a Leader of the Opposition appointed or elected from among that party’s members by convention and practice, that is normally guided by the leadership of the said opposition party. In our case, the leader of the Patriotic Front (PF) party, who is Hon. Miles Sampa, as per …

Laughter

Mr Simumba: What interest do you have?

Mr Anakoka: … the recent convention outcome, communicated to the House that Mr Christopher Chabinga, the hon. Member for Mafinga, will be the new Leader of the Opposition. Are the hon. Members on your left in order to disregard the guidance from their president and continue to allow Hon. Mundubile to act as Leader of the Opposition when the guidance from the leadership of their party is clear?

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

My guidance is that this matter is still in court. Why can we not wait for the ruling from the court and then see what happens. For now, it is very difficult for me to comment on this matter since it is in court.

We make progress.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Madam Speaker, the interest of the United Party for National Development (UPND) in Hon. Miles Sampa’s case, …

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

Mr Mushanga: … is very suspicious.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Bwacha!

Please, resume your seat.

Hon. Members, a serious matter is being discussed on the Floor of this House. I see no reason you should start politicking because that is not necessary. People are waiting to hear the measures that the Government is putting in place to fight cholera, but you are bringing in issues that are not connected to the matter being discussed on the Floor of the House. Those who do not have questions related to cholera should not indicate so that I allow those hon. Members who want to ask the hon. Minister questions.

Hon. Member for Bwacha, do you have a question for the hon. Minister on the matter of cholera?

Mr Mushanga: Yes, Madam Speaker, I have a question.

Madam Speaker, twenty-six cases of cholera were confirmed and two people died, and this is serious. In her statement, the hon. Minister indicated that the Government, through the ministry, is distributing chlorine to the affected areas. The people of Bwacha Parliamentary Constituency and the country at large would like to know the quantities of chlorine that the Government has distributed so far to the affected areas.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I think, this question requires further research for one to know the quantities.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me the chance, on behalf of the people of Lundazi, to ask the hon. Minister a supplementary question.

Madam Speaker, we live in a country where there are porous borders. Lundazi Constituency is surrounded by Malawi and Tanzania, and the borders are porous. In view of the number of cholera cases that have been reported, what measures has the Government put in place to ensure that Zambians do not get diseases, especially from our neighbours in Malawi?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, unfortunately, when it comes to health issues, we are normally at a disadvantage because a number of diseases break out in neighbouring countries and the borders are really artificial. We are one people. Zambians go to the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) and the people there also come to Zambia. We go to Mozambique and Malawi, and the people in those countries come to Zambia. So, we live as one, and the problem is that outbreaks know no borders. For this reason, the Africa Centres for Disease Control (CDC) and the World Health Organisation (WHO) have intensified cross-border initiatives. Zambia works with Malawi and Mozambique only when there is a reported case but, going forward, we intend to work together every year. As nations, we need to address the shortage of water in some areas, and sanitation and hygiene issues. Therefore, we want this to be part of our everyday work. We also need to improve the supply of water. The President increased the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) so that we improve the supply of water in communities because we know that the biggest problem is the quality of water people are consuming. You will note that –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I have added ten minutes.

You may continue, hon. Minister.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, Zambia and Malawi have inter-border committees at the ministerial level, and we have leadership in the province, and District Health Directors, who hold joint meetings and carry out sensitisation. Further, when there is an outbreak, we offer each other logistical support. However, this issue is real, and we need to do more than what we are doing. I thank the hon. Member for bringing out the issue of outbreaks at borders.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simushi (Sikongo): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the Ministry of Health for the quick response in curbing the spread of the disease. Indeed, prevention is better than cure. However, I am alive to the fact that there is a vaccine for cholera. Does this country have access to the vaccine?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, last time we conducted the vaccination for cholera in Zambia, we controlled the disease. So, the Ministry of Health realised that vaccinating people against cholera helps to prevent the disease from spreading. The vaccine is not easily available, but I am pleased to report that last month, before the President visited the People’s Republic of China, I had a conversation with the Chinese Ambassador when he paid a courtesy call on me at my office and he indicated that China had the vaccine. As the Government, we have since written to the People’s Republic of China officially, through the embassy, because the Chinese Ambassador had said that they would give us the vaccines. If we get the vaccines, we will vaccinate our people because we believe that the vaccine helps to prevent cholera.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has outlined many measures that have been put in place to prevent cholera. What long-term measures has the Government put in place, considering the set-up in Lusaka, in which people drill boreholes 5 m away from the sewerage system, and that is posing a danger? If anything, we are sitting on a time bomb. There are many outbreaks of diarrhoeal diseases in Lusaka, and cholera is one of them. The hon. Minister has stated that one of the causes of cholera is drinking contaminated water. For the information of the hon. Minister, there was a situation in Meanwood in which people poured paraffin in a septic tank that was behind a house and, two days later, the water from the borehole was smelling paraffin. That is a very dangerous situation. Since the ministry interacts with other ministries, what long-term measures will they put in place to deal with the problem, which is time bomb, especially in Lusaka?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, the issue of unplanned settlements is big and partly falls under the Office of the Vice-President, a Government wing that resettles people in a proper manner. The Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, hon. Members of Parliament, as elected leaders, and Councillors together with the hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources also ensure that people settle properly.

Madam Speaker, His Excellency the President has been pushing for a Government of laws. We should not politicise issues, regardless of whether we are members of the Patriotic Front (PF) or the United Party for National Development (UPND) because the law is blind. We always talk about adhering to the Local Government Act in terms of land alienation, construction of houses, and management of bus stations and markets, and all these illegalities spring out of illegal arrangements. If, we, as a country, adhered to our laws, many issues would not arise. People build on sewerage lines, but when the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development demolishes their houses, some people politicise the issue. So, as a country, we need to work together. The starting point is that the law is blind. It does not matter whether one is an elected leader, a President, a Minister or a cadre, the law should apply equally to all of us.

Madam Speaker, under the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation, there is a law that guides the drilling of boreholes, and when one wants to sink a borehole, one must submit a report to the Water Resources Management Authority (WARMA). The way we drill boreholes in this country can also cause cholera because, sometimes, people drill boreholes near septic tanks without understanding that there may be slippages. So, the water in the sewerage pipes might go into the borehole, and that is why it is important that people do not just sink boreholes anywhere. In Lusaka, for example, we discourage people from sinking boreholes in places like Kanyama and Matero because the water table in those areas is high. Water can be found at 10 m or 15 m. However, we are improving sanitation, and the President said that we must ensure that there is quality sanitation in schools, clinics and public places. The problem is that in this country, we do not have good sanitation in public places, and we need to provide that. For example, one cannot use the toilets in some ministries because they are dirty, and those in markets are unusable. So, how can we talk about hygiene? As Zambians, let us look at the issue of sanitation. The long-term measure is to ensure that we follow the laws. We have clear laws on how to build a house, yet people just build anywhere, and when one demolishes their houses, one is called a devil. So, for me, the rule of law must take centre stage.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Since the hon. Minister mentioned Kanyama, I will allow the hon. Member for Kanyama to ask a question.

Mr Chinkuli (Kanyama): Madam Speaker, I am humbled, and I thank the hon. Minister for the report that she has –

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

There is an indication for a point of order by the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development.

A point of order is raised.

Mr Twasa almost left the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, may I request Hon. Twasa, my dear friend, to resume his seat as I raise this important point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 202, on the privileges of Members of Parliament, and Standing Order No. 203, on the conduct of Members of Parliament. I have been compelled to raise this point of order because, I think, enough is enough.

Madam Speaker, Standing Order No. 203 provides as follows:

“(1) A member shall at all times conduct himself/herself in a manner that upholds the dignity, integrity and decorum of the House.

“(2) A member shall not act in a manner that brings the House or other members generally into disrepute.

“(3) In accordance with sections four, five and six of the Parliamentary and Ministerial Code of Conduct Act, a member shall –

(a) not acquire dishonestly or improperly any pecuniary advantage.”

Madam Speaker, in the past three days, some of the Patriotic Front (PF) hon. Members have been coming here. Two days ago, a similar point of order was raised, and we thought it was just an incident, but it looks like it is now a trend. I am also aware that you reserved your ruling on this matter.

Mr B. Mpundu: Nauko takuli!

Mr Nkombo: What?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I need your protection.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I do not see why arms should be raised up. Let us give the hon. Minister the chance to conclude his point of order.

You may go ahead, hon. Minister.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, in the past three days, it was recorded that the PF hon. Members whose seats are empty today were present in this House and dealt with the interests and aspirations of the people who voted for them. We do not know how long this will take and we do not know what is causing this behaviour of just coming to register, earn money from people’s taxes and walk out at will, which is a worrying trend.

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling on this matter so that the PF hon. Members either choose to go for good or come and do the work for which they were elected by Zambians.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you very much, hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development. That is truly sad. We represent the people who elected us, but some hon. Members are not committed to doing Parliamentary work. The people out there who elected us are anxiously waiting to see their hon. Members of Parliament talk in this House, but some hon. Members decided to leave this honourable House. We will talk to the Whip and the Leader of the Opposition, who are both away. Since a ruling on the same matter was reserved, we will look at that point of order and render the ruling.

Hon. Members, my guidance is that let us be fair to ourselves and to the people who sent us here; the people who, I am sure, are not happy. In this Meeting, we look at the Budget, which covers the whole country, but some hon. Members seem not to be interested and would rather leave this House. Let us take Parliamentary work seriously. Otherwise, this will affect our performance because the people are seeing what we are doing in Parliament, and the years are moving. So, let us take Parliamentary work seriously.

Let us make progress.

May the hon. Member for Kanyama, who was on the Floor, continue.

Mr Chinkuli: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the comprehensive statement that she has issued.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that one of the ways of curbing the spread of cholera is avoiding gatherings. You may wish to note that the largest population in this country is in Kanyama, yet the area is small. Considering the number of people in the area, one would mistake it for a funeral gathering. To that effect, I do not know what advice the hon. Minister can give so that –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is the question, hon. Member?

Mr Chinkuli: Madam Speaker, I am about to ask the question and, I think, the hon. Minister is following. What advice can she give us to prevent the disease from spreading?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kanyama for the question, and I will answer it in the context that it is advice.

Madam Speaker, my advice is that he, as an hon. Member of Parliament, must engage the communities in Kanyama. The problem in Kanyama is historical. It is not new, and has been there for a long time. You may recall that when the late Mr Michael Sata, may his soul rest in peace, was Minister of Local Government and Housing, he tried to relocate the people of Kanyama. So, that is one of the solutions we can start looking at. Is it possible to relocate people, find new a site and build new houses, as a long-term measure? The population has outgrown the size of Kanyama, but people are squeezing themselves in a small space. So, as leaders, we have to be brave, engage the public and find answers, and then approach the Government.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

BROKEN-DOWN MACHINE AT CANCER DISEASES HOSPITAL

124. Mr Simumba (Nakonde) asked the Minister of Health:

why the Government had not repaired the broken radiation machine at the Cancer Diseases Hospital in Lusaka, which has resulted in cancer patients being referred to Tanzania for treatment;

what urgent measures are being taken to repair the machine;

whether the Government is covering the cost of the patients being referred to Tanzania; and

if so, what the cost of referring one patient is.

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, I ask for permission from you to respond to this matter through a ministerial statement because of the seriousness of the question that has been asked. We need to deal with it comprehensively.

I seek your indulgence, Madam Speaker, although I have a short answer that I can give.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, since the question is already on the Order Paper, you can just give us whatever response you have.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, thank you for your guidance. I will respond.

Madam Speaker, the Government, in early 2022, tried to repair the machines at the Cancer Diseases Hospital. After the repairs were done, the machines would work only for a month and break down again. We continued repairing the machines, but they would work for a week or two and, again, break down. We then realised that they were obsolete and, in some cases, had no spare parts. They had outlived their useful life, were outdated and no longer on the world market. Due to this situation, the Government decided to replace all the diagnostic and radiotherapy equipment at the Cancer Diseases Hospital instead of repairing them. The House may wish to note that the machines were installed in 2006, 2010, and 2014, and it is well known that all of them needed to be replaced between 2016 and 2019.

Madam Speaker, as stated earlier, the machines are archaic and obsolete, and have no spare parts on the world market. Therefore, there is no possibility of repairing them, and the Government has decided to replace the entire set of equipment at the Cancer Diseases Hospital. The House may wish to note that the removal of the machines has to be done in accordance with the international standards for dealing with machines that give out radiation.

Madam Speaker, regarding the patients at the Cancer Diseases Hospital, I am glad to inform the House that the Government, through the Ministry of Health and, in particular, the Cancer Diseases Hospital, has engaged the Tanzanian Government, through the Cancer Centre in Tanzania, as we prepare for the complete replacement of the equipment. To this effect, a memorandum of understanding (MoU) was signed between the Cancer Disease Centre of Zambia and the Cancer Disease Centre of Tanzania, wherein it has been agreed that when we start replacing the old machines with new ones, the Cancer Diseases Hospital will be closed for some months, and during the period it will be closed, the infrastructure will have to be rehabilitated, taking into account the new machines that will replace the old ones. When the new machines are brought in and the hospital becomes operational, the patients will be moved from Tanzania back into the hospital. The period is between four months to six months, and negotiations on how much it will cost to refer one patient to Tanzania are in progress. So far, the Zambian Government has accepted the cost because that is what it pays for one patient in the hospital.

Madam Speaker, I will provide more details when I issue a ministerial statement. For now, the simple answer is that the Government has already engaged Siemens to remove the equipment it put up. Siemens will replace the equipment and, with other contractors, rehabilitate the rooms. When we are ready, the patients will be moved to Tanzania, and I am talking about all the patients who are currently at the Cancer Diseases Hospital.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, my question was very simple. I wanted to know how much the Government will spend on taking patients to Tanzania, but the hon. Minister did not give any figure, which is worrying. The question was straightforward, and I want to know the figure.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, the cost of referring patients to Tanzania is being negotiated, as I indicated. There is an MoU, and that simply means that we have agreed on something, but we have not finalised. What comes out of a MoU is the actual contract that gives you the figures. That is a procurement matter, but the amount will be around US$4,500 per patient, and will cover transportation costs, accommodation for the patients, meals and six to seven weeks of radiotherapy, which is almost two months. However, as I indicated, the final amount will be included in the contract.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, according to the statistics from the Zambia National Cancer Registry, deaths from cancer and new cancer cases have increased. I would like to know whether the ministry will consider purchasing two machines for the Cancer Diseases Hospital instead of relying on one machine.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, the Government is doing everything possible to ensure that when the Cancer Diseases Hospital is opened, there will be sufficient equipment for the cancer patients. Further, the Government has decentralised the treatment of cancer on the Copperbelt to cater for those in the northern region, including the Copperbelt, and Livingstone to cater for the people from the Western Province, Central Province and the Southern Province, to deal with the increased number of cancer cases in the country.

Madam Speaker, you may wish to note that the number of cancer cases of various forms has increased due to many factors, which we can talk about on another day. For now, suffice it for me to say that this is a serious concern. In the past, we used to say that somebody with cancer had been bewitched but, now, we know that there are different forms of cancer in the country. That is why we encourage people, especially mothers, to get screened for cervical cancer and breast cancer. Men should also get screened. When cancer is detected early, one is assured of being cured. However, when it is detected late, even if the machines are working, that does not help.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, how much is purchasing the radiation machine, which is important? Further, has the ministry considered purchasing that important machine under the 2024 Budget?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I did not get the question.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Nakonde, repeat the question.

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, how much is the radiation machine, and will the ministry consider purchasing one under the 2024 Budget?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, under the 2023 Budget, we will pay for the machines that are required at the Cancer Diseases Hospital in Lusaka. The Government with the support of its partners has also provided resources for Ndola Cancer Hospital. Those resources are available, and the contractor is already on the ground. We are hopeful that within six months to nine months, the hospital will be ready.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member also wanted to know the actual amount.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, regarding the actual amount, I do not want to mislead the House because we are not looking at one machine; it is a set. However, I can tell the hon. Member the value later.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has just confirmed that malignant diseases have risen in the country. The people have also confirmed that –

Mr B. Mpundu: What?

Mr Fube: I said malignant.

Mr B. Mpundu: Okay.

Mr Fube: Yes.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned the figure of US$4,500, meaning that she is in the position to project the people in a critical condition who will be transferred to Tanzania. Could she inform this House the number of patients in need of the US$4,500. From her explanation, the Government is already under stress from handling cancer. How many patients are supposed to go to Tanzania?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I do not want to mislead the House. That is why I asked that I issue a ministerial statement, which will address some of the questions that the hon. Members are raising.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, what is the cost-benefit analysis of sending patients to Tanzania against procuring the machine, given the fact that we have not been told the number of patients who will be sent to Tanzania? I agree with the hon. Minister that there is a need for her to issue a ministerial statement because we need more details to understand what the cost-benefit analysis of sending people abroad is when the machine can be procured. This is very important information that we need.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member agrees with me that I need to issue a comprehensive ministerial statement on this issue. However, we will get the machines, except that the Cancer Diseases Hospital will have to close for a few months so that the old equipment can be removed and the new one installed. That exercise cannot be done when patients are in the hospital and we cannot send them home. So, the question of whether it will be cheaper or expensive to send people abroad when the machine can be procured does not even arise. We do not want to get piecemeal machines.

Madam Speaker, you are aware that there are machines at Maina Soko Military Hospital, the University Teaching Hospital (UTH), Levy Mwanawasa University Teaching Hospital and a number of private hospitals in Lusaka. However, since the number of cancer cases is high, the requirement for machinery to deal with them is high. That is why we are trying to do a comprehensive job. When we send a patient out of Africa, say to India, we spend more than US$4,500. That amount is just for the ticket before one starts treatment. However, we have seen that the cost that Tanzania has given us is what we would spend on a patient locally.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I think, we can end here since the hon. Minister has promised to issue a comprehensive ministerial statement on the same issue.

So, we make progress.

TEMPORARY BRIDGE ON THE LUANGWA RIVER

125. Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

whether the Government is aware that the temporary bridge across the Luangwa River on the Chama/Matumbo Road in Chama District is on the verge of collapse, thereby posing a risk to the lives of motorists and pedestrians;

if so, what urgent measures are being taken to avert loss of life and property and to ensure that the bridge remains usable; and

when the Government will construct a permanent bridge at the crossing point.

The Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala) (on behalf of the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi)): Madam Speaker, the Government is aware of the state of the temporary bridge across the Luangwa River on the Chama/Matumbo Road in Chama District and the risk it poses to the lives of motorists and pedestrians.

Madam Speaker, as a matter of urgency, the Government, through the Road Development Agency (RDA), will undertake repair works on the temporary bridge in the fourth quarter of 2023 to ensure that it remains safe for use by motorists and pedestrians.

Madam Speaker, the Government has engaged a contractor to construct the Matumbo and Kampemba bridges across the Luangwa and Kampemba rivers in Chama District of Muchinga Province.

Madam Speaker, I have been given additional information, just for clarity. The cost of the temporary works has been estimated at K6.3 million. So far, K3 million has been released and commencement awaits the engagement of a contractor. The contractor engaged for the permanent works is Messrs China Real Seventh Group, and the project covers the construction of the Kampemba Bridge as well as the Luangwa Bridge. The project was awarded in 2015 at a contract sum of K125 million. The contractor has concentrated on the Kampemba Bridge while works on the Luangwa Bridge will be intensified in 2024. The project commenced in 2015 and is expected to be completed by December 2024.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, I thank the Acting hon. Minister for that response.

Madam Speaker, last year in February, I went to Chama with the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, officials from the Road Development Agency (RDA) and the Board Chairperson to see the status of the bridge. Promises were made, but more than one year has passed. The bridge is on the verge of collapsing and, last week, the hon. Minster for Eastern Province went to see the bridge. So, why is the Government moving at a snail’s pace in addressing a pending disaster? It is very difficult for the people of Chama to believe what the hon. Minister is saying because the problem was brought to the attention of the Government more than a year ago. So, why is the Government taking a laissez-faire approach …

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We have gotten your question.

Mr Mtayachalo: … to handling this matter? When the bridge collapses, the people of Chama will be cut off completely. They use the bridge when going to buy goods in Nakonde.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I have already indicated that the temporary works on the bridge will commence in the last quarter of 2023. It could be next month, but the works will be undertaken before the end of the year.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, we are grateful because we have seen efforts being made to work on the Kampemba Bridge. However, we are concerned about the temporary bridge that was put to enable people to cross the river while the permanent bridge is being constructed because its embankments on both sides are being eaten up. When it rains, unfortunately, the bridge will be washed away. Since less than 4 m is remaining for the embankments on both sides of the bridge to collapse, is the hon. Minister going to put in place remedial measures as we wait for the commencement of works on a permanent bridge next year? Can the hon. Minister take that as an emergency so that the bridge withstands this rainy season for the people of Chama to access health facilities in Chinsali and remain connected to the rest of the country?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, that is the same question that was posed by Hon. Mtayachalo. I have indicated that money has already been released for the temporary works. The works will commence in the last quarter, which means in October, November and December, so that the bridge is made safe for pedestrians and motorists.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

DEGAZETTING OF MWEKERA FOREST

126. Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa) asked the Minister of Green Economy and Environment:

whether the Government has any plans to degazette a portion of Mwekera Forest in Kitwe District to accommodate settlers;

if so, how many hectares of land will be apportioned;

when the plans will be implemented; and

if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Tourism (Mr Sikumba) (on behalf of the Minister of Green Economy and Environment (Eng. Nzovu)): Madam Speaker, let me give a brief background regarding Mwekera National Forest in Kitwe.

Madam Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that Mwekera National Forest No. F6, with an extent of approximately 11,539 ha, is still a protected forest area under Statutory Instrument No. 90 of 2015. The forest is located on the Copperbelt Province, and falls in two districts, namely Ndola and Kitwe. The area was declared a protected forest area on 25^th March, 1946, under Government Notice No. 72 of 1946 with an estimated area of 17,887 ha on Survey Diagram No. FR 47 of 1950.

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that Mwekera National Forest has undergone major boundary alterations that reduced the size of the forest by 6,350 ha. I, therefore, wish to inform this august House that the Government has no intention to degazette any portion of the forest in Kitwe District to accommodate any settlers. The main purpose of protecting the forest reserve is to ensure the continued flow of goods and services, the flow of the Mwekera Stream and the protection of groundwater in the area. The forest area also houses important institutions, such as the Zambia Forestry College and the Mwekera National Fish-Culture Training School.

Madam Speaker, as indicated earlier, the Mwekera National Forest has been extensively excised. The main reason for undertaking the previous boundary alterations was for agricultural expansion and to accommodate farmers with a view to their receiving agricultural inputs from the Government. Therefore, no further extensions will be made.

Madam Speaker, as earlier mentioned in parts (a) and (b) of the question, the Government has no intention of implementing such plans, and no more land will be hived off from the forest reserve.

Madam Speaker, as stated, the forest reserve forms an integral water recharge area in the province. It also facilitates provision of goods and services to communities adjacent to it as well as protecting the Mwekera River and its tributaries, which feed into the Kafue River. In addition, the forest is used for research purposes by the Zambia Forestry College.

Madam Speaker, although almost 51 per cent of the forest has been encroached on, the encroachments are not permanent. As the House may be aware, Zambia has a target of 2 million ha for forest restoration, and the Mwekera National Forest is one area under that programme.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, I have taken note of the responses provided by the Acting hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment. For the benefit of the hon. Minister, I want to put it on record that the portion requested to be degazetted is occupied by the settlers, and my question relates to that. The hon. Minister is aware that over sixty years have elapsed since 1946 when the forest was classified as a protected area and, obviously, the needs of our people have changed, meaning that even the use of the land has changed. Is the Government considering that fact, particularly in cities? We will continue talking about the forest, but the needs of the people have changed, and there must be a strong desire to understand land use in modern society.

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member of Parliament for the follow-up question.

Madam Speaker, we are alive to the fact that the demands of our citizens keep changing over time. Yes, more than sixty years have passed, and the population has grown extensively over the years. I stated that the piece of land the hon. Member is talking about has been encroached on and, obviously, the settlers are supposed to be relocated to designated areas. However, if we relocated the people in the area in question, it would defeat the purpose of having water recharge areas. It would be folly of us to have habitats on our water aquifer as well as recharge area. That, in itself, would create more damage than good and defeat what we have been trying to achieve over time. However, there is a resettlement plan in the Office of the Vice-President in which settlers are relocated to alternative places. We do not want to damage our recharge areas as we endeavour to build our habitant, in order to achieve our target of 2 million ha for forest restoration by 2030.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, I sympathise with the hon. Minister. I understand that the response was prepared by officers who are familiar with the challenge. Are the hon. Minister, the Permanent Secretary (PS) and other senior officers in the ministry able to go and see the exact portion of land requested to be degazetted by our people? As Member of Parliament, I can accompany them so that the hon. Minister establishes the extent of the problem and appreciates the fact that the needs of our people have changed over the years. Is the hon. Minister able to visit the constituency to appreciate the challenges that we raise? I would like to assure him that the recharge areas are not affected by the important request.

Madam Speaker, this is my last follow-up question.

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon Member for the follow-up question.

Madam Speaker, we will definitely invite our colleague, the hon. Member for Kamfinsa, to our office so he can understand what we, as a ministry, are trying to achieve. If the Government degazetted areas that it knows are water catchment areas or recharge areas, then, it would be dropping the ball. However, I have no problem with meeting the hon. Member at our office so that we can discuss.

Madam Speaker, Mwekera is one of the forest reserves dotted across the country. In my constituency, there is Dambwa Forest. Essentially, there are other settlers who want to be relocated, but we cannot open up particular areas at the risk of losing water. My colleague from the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation is looking at how best he can implement water harvesting. So, we should not negate his efforts by degazetting specific areas which, obviously, are ecologically sensitive.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi): Madam Speaker, the conversation about degazetting land is not only in Kitwe, but also elsewhere, especially given that the population is increasing, like the hon. Minister stated. However, we need to strike a balance. We need to protect protected areas and ensure that recharge areas are not disturbed. Does the ministry intend to sensitise the people of Kitwe, as it engages them, on the importance of striking a balance between human settlement and preserving protected areas?

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I am happy that the hon. Member of Parliament has confirmed that the request to degazette parcels of land is not only on the Copperbelt, in particular, Mwekera, but also in Itezhi-Tezhi, Livingstone and other areas. We need to take a holistic approach and agree on the parcels of land that can be degazetted. Fortunately, 33 per cent of land in Zambia is protected, and many settlers who are either farming or mining in national parks are threatening me. The Ministry of Green Economy and Environment, the Ministry of Tourism, the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources, and the Cabinet of the Republic of Zambia need to discuss how we will address the issue. So, dealing with the issue in Mwekera in isolation might be premature for now. However, hon. Members of Parliament who feel that certain parcels of land across the country need to be degazetted should feel free to submit those proposals, and the Cabinet will agree on the way forward.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

CONSTRUCTION OF STAFF HOUSES AT SHABO CAMP

128. Mr Mwene (Mangango) asked the Minister of Defence:

whether the Government has any plans to construct staff houses at the Zambia National Service (ZNS) Shabo Camp in Mangango Parliamentary Constituency;

(b) if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu) (on behalf of the Minister of Defence (Mr Lufuma): Madam Speaker, the Government is aware of the housing challenges –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was answering the question raised by my colleague, the hon. Member for Mangango.

Mr Speaker, the Government is aware of the housing challenges of the public servants across the country, including those in the Zambia National Service (ZNS). However, due to limited funds, priority is on completing all running projects before embarking on new projects, which include staff houses in Shabo Camp in Mangango Parliamentary Constituency.

Mr Speaker, the plan to construct staff houses in Shabo will be implemented after all running projects are completed. Suffice it for me to say that the ZNS is constructing 1 x 5 flats to mitigate the housing deficit.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has stated that the Zambia National Service (ZNS) is constructing staff houses. Does he not think that the quality of those houses will be different from the houses in other camps, which were constructed by AVIC International?

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I would like to assure my colleague by saying that there is a highly competent cadre of construction officials in the ZNS. You may not know that most housing units in ZNS camps were built by the ZNS Builders Brigade. I assure the hon. Member that the houses that have been built by the ZNS Builders Brigade are of a high quality.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwene: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the fact that you are pronouncing the word Mangango correctly. The Tonga hon. Members of Parliament laughed at my constituency because of the earlier mispronunciation.

Mr Speaker, when will the running projects be completed? In my constituency, there is a problem of housing? There is a large number of soldiers in the constituency, but accommodation is not enough. At the same time, the accommodation there is not good for human habitation, especially for soldiers.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I have taken note of the issues raised by Hon. Mwene of Mangango in the Western Province of the Republic of Zambia. We will do something to ensure that the housing deficit is alleviated.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

CONSTRUCTION OF DIP TANKS IN NAMWALA DISTRICT

129. Mr Mapani (Namwala) asked the Minister of Fisheries and Livestock:

whether the Government has any plans to construct dip tanks in Namwala District;

if so, when the plans will be implemented;

how many dip tanks are earmarked for construction in 2023;

what the estimated cost of constructing each dip tank is; and

if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Fisheries and Livestock (Mr Chikote): Mr Speaker, the House may wish to note that the prevention and control of animal diseases in Namwala District is top on the agenda of the New Dawn Administration. The Government recognises the important role dip tanks play in controlling tick-borne diseases.

Mr Speaker, the House may wish to note that the district has the highest number of cattle in Zambia, but has limited dipping facilities. That has led the Central Government to complement local government efforts by constructing community dip tanks in the district. Given the foregoing, the Government has plans to construct three dip tans in Namwala District in 2023. The dip tanks to be constructed are as follows:

Moobola Dip Tank in Muchila Veterinary Camp;

Ngabo Dip Tank in Baambwe Veterinary Camp; and

Kabulamwanda Dip Tank in Katanntila Veterinary Camp.

Mr Speaker, the implementation of the plans to construct the dip tanks have already commenced.

Mr Speaker, as stated in part (a) of the question, three dip tanks will be constructed.

Mr Speaker, to construct a dip tank, the scope of works includes the following:

Plunge-dip excavation works and reinforced concrete works;

super structure, steel works, iron mongery and roofing;

animal handling facilities, holding pen, crush pen and neck clamp;

water reticulation; drilling of borehole, installation of pump, and installation of tank stand and storage tank; and

power supply through solar panels, complete with control box and accessories.

Mr Speaker, the estimated cost of constructing a dip tank, complete with auxiliaries in Namwala District is therefore, K350,000.

Mr Speaker, as already outlined in part (a) of the question, the plans are already being implemented.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mapani: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the answers he has given us.

Mr Speaker, does the Government intend to construct more dip tanks in the district under next year’s Budget, given the prevailing situation in which our animals are finishing because of diseases?

Mr Chikote: Mr Speaker, indeed, in the 2024 Budget, we have allocated money for the construction of dip tanks. However, the hon. Member should be happy because the three dip tanks that we will construct will be standard and we will drill boreholes. Most dip tanks that were constructed during the previous regime had a water problem.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, first of all, allow me to congratulate the Patriotic Front (PF) President-elect, Hon. Miles Sampa.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukosa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Michelo: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister, in the next two or three weeks, come up with a programme for dip tanks that will be constructed in districts, especially in districts where there is a large number of animals?

Mr Chikote: Mr Speaker, in our quest to eradicate animal diseases in the livestock sector, we intend to undertake a comprehensive assessment to determine how we can eradicate diseases, especially in areas where there is a large number of cattle and high incidence of diseases. So, we plan to undertake a comprehensive assessment of how we can support farmers. I encourage hon. Members to supplement the Central Government’s efforts to eradicate diseases by constructing dip tanks in their respective constituencies using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). If we want to see the livestock sector contribute positively to the economic wheels of this country, we should construct dip tanks using the CDF.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Fube: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Fube: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, Madam First Deputy Speaker ruled that the matter that the hon. Member referred to is in court, and our Standing Orders are very clear on cases that are in court. As far as I am concerned, an injunction is a court action. Was the hon. Member for Bweengwa, therefore, in order to refer to Hon. Miles Sampa as the President-elect, when the matter is in court?

I seek your ruling, Mr Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

I observed that the hon. Member for Bweengwa was not around when Madam First Deputy Speaker made the ruling. So, he did not get what she said. However, we should not comment on all matters that are before the court. That is my advice. I think, the hon. Member for Bweengwa has heard.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, let us proceed.

Mr Mutinta: Mr Speaker, since I was also not here, …

Laughter

Mr Mutinta: … I wish to congratulate Hon. Chabinga –

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Itezhi-Tezhi!

May you resume your seat.

Mr Mutinta resumed his seat.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I ruled that that matter is in court.

Some Patriotic Front Members walked out of the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Kafwaya rose.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Lunte, may you resume your seat (laughs).

Mr Kafwaya resumed his seat.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: May the hon. Member for Itezhi-Tezhi proceed.

Mr Mutinta: Mr Speaker, I am guided.

Mr Speaker, my question is on the new dip tanks that will constructed in Namwala. It has been observed that the technology used in most dip tanks sometimes fails. The sustainability of the dip tanks is sometimes a challenge. For example, in Itezhi-Tezhi, out of the ten dip tanks that the Government constructed, only one or two are functioning. What technology will be used when constructing the boreholes in Namwala to ensure that they last longer?

Mr Chikote: Mr Speaker, as I stated, most of the dip tanks that were constructed had many challenges. However, the ministry has now come up with a standard design for dip tanks for them to last longer. The component of water has been included because its absence in some dip tanks that were constructed in the past was a big challenge. So, the experts came up with the design that we will use to construct the dip tanks in Namwala so that the dip tanks are sustainable facilities to assist the farmers.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chewe (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, much as we appreciate that the ministry will put up three dip tanks in Namwala, there is a concern that some people are failing to pay for their animals to be dipped while other animals are being dipped. At the end of the day, all those animals graze in the same areas, putting pressure on the Government Treasury in terms of vaccines and other things. What measures is the ministry putting in place to ensure that farmers have their animals dipped without being charged?

Mr Chikote: Mr Speaker, indeed, those are some of the challenges we are facing. When it comes to disease control, some farmers do not understand the importance of doing that until their animals start dying. So, we need to ensure that farmers understand the importance of dipping through capacity building. We will also ensure that the dip tanks that will be constructed are owned by the communities so that the communities understand their importance. The hon. Member may wish to note that the only way livestock farmers can understand the importance of dip tanks is by giving them the right information and sensitising our communities. People need to understand that we need to construct dip tanks for us to win the battle against livestock diseases in this country. So, it is our responsibility to sensitise people, and I call upon hon. Members to sensitise farmers so that they can understand the importance of putting in place measures that will help to prevent livestock diseases.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Let us make progress.

_______

MOTION

MOTION OF THANKS

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House places on record its thanks to Her Excellency Samia Suluhu Hassan, the President of the United Republic of Tanzania, on the occasion of her Special Address to the House.

Mr Speaker, the National Assembly of Zambia was greatly honoured to host Her Excellency Samia Suluhu Hassan, who addressed the House yesterday, Wednesday, 25^th October, 2023.

Mr Speaker, the address covered a number of important issues of common interest to both the people of Tanzania and of Zambia. In this regard, allow me to make a few observations on the bilateral relations between Tanzania and Zambia.

Mr Speaker, since Independence, through our Founding Fathers, Dr Kenneth David Kaunda and Dr Julius Mwalimu Nyerere, Tanzania has traditionally enjoyed excellent ties of friendship with Zambia. Zambia being a landlocked country, most of its goods are exported and imported through the port of Dar-es-Salaam. Mainly, motor vehicles and petroleum products are transported through Dar-es-Salaam to Zambia, and copper is transported from Zambia to Dar-es-Salaam. The relationship between the two countries was founded on mutual trust and respect. Further, Tanzania has always stood side by side with Zambia in fostering development in this country. The Tanzania-Zambia Mafuta (TAZAMA) Pipeline, which was built in 1968, is a clear demonstration of the strength of the bilateral ties between the two countries. Further, the two countries are joint owners of the Tanzania-Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA).

Mr Speaker, in terms of trade and investment, both countries have a solid relationship that has proven beneficial to their economies. A number of Tanzanian companies have invested in Zambia in various sectors of our economy and vice-versa.

Politically, Mr Speaker, the two countries held hands together with other countries as frontline States in the liberation struggle against minority rule in Southern Africa.

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, allow me to place on record my sincere gratitude for this historic moment of having received Her Excellency Samia Suluhu Hassan, President of the United Republic Tanzania, in this august House. I implore the House to deliberate on the issues raised, which not only affect our work as Parliamentarians, but are also of both national and international importance. Finally, I wish to reiterate our continued commitment to further developing co-operation between the two countries in various sectors and at different levels.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I must mention that the Patriotic Front (PF) party has given me …

Mr Mubika: Which PF (Patriotic Front)?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: … a list of would-be debaters. So, I will be picking from the list.

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity, this afternoon, on behalf of the good people of Petauke Central, to contribute to the debate on the Motion of Thanks on the Special Address by the President of the United Republic of Tanzania.

Mr Speaker, as the good people of Petauke Central, we were very happy to have the President of the United Republic of Tanzania in our country as we were celebrating fifty-nine years of Independence, the Independence which the youths of Zambia fought for in 1964. The good people of Petauke Central were also happy to see the respect that the President of the United Republic of Zambia gave this House. When she was asked to deliver her speech while seated, she declined and said that this is a House where hon. Members were, and that there was a need for her to address the hon. Members whilst standing. For that, we give kudos to her …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. E. Banda: … because we have not seen a President humble himself or herself …

Hon. Members: Herself!

Mr J. E. Banda: … before hon. Members. It is a good thing that she was once an hon. Member of Parliament and understands the job, and that …

Mr Nkandu: Question!

Mr J. E. Banda: … hon. Members of Parliament should be given respect. Hon. Members of Parliament should be given respect, not treated like they were voted for by only 150 people.

Interruptions

Mr J. E. Banda: Mr Speaker, the President of the United Republic of Tanzania delivered the speech whilst standing, and that will remain in the minds of the good people of Petauke Central and future generations. Even our great-grandchildren will appreciate that. I wish it could be a tradition that everyone who comes to address this House, like visiting Presidents, addresses it while standing and knows that –

Mr Samakayi: Question!

Laughter

Mr J. E. Banda: You can say “Question”. I will not appoint you in the future.

Laughter

Mr J. E. Banda: Mr Speaker, hon. Members of Parliament go through a lot just to come to this House, and it is not good to undermine them.

Mr Speaker, it is a good thing that the President of the United Republic of Tanzania came. Some people think that hon. Members of Parliament can be dragged anyhow and have their diplomatic status put aside.

Mr Nkandu: Time up.

Mr J. E. Banda: Right now, I am being told that it is time up, yet hon. Members should be treated with respect.

Interruptions

Mr J. E. Banda: The way hon. Members are sometimes treated is not good.

Mr Speaker, when the President of the United Republic of Tanzania was delivering the speech, we were all quiet and listened attentively to the speech. That is what should happen in this House. When one stands and starts talking, everyone should be quiet. Even the Standing Orders provide that no hon. Member should talk whilst seated. However, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kaputa likes talking despite there being many challenges in Kaputa. He thinks that by having tournaments, roads will be built.

Laughter

Mr J. E. Banda: The people of Kaputa expect development.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Petauke Central!

You are debating the Address by the Tanzanian President. Why are you debating your fellow hon. Member of Parliament? You should do chimbuya at the market, not here.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: This is a House of serious business.

Mr J. E. Banda: Mr Speaker, I am sure, he has heard that as an hon. Minister, whatever he says is policy and that he should take the chimbuya to the market in Kaputa.

Laughter

Mr J. E. Banda: Mr Speaker, with this behaviour, it really shows –

Mr Speaker, with those few remarks, I thank you. Even if some hon. Members remain quiet, they should know that they represent their constituents.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Petauke Central!

May you resume your seat.

Interruptions

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for this opportunity availed to me to comment on the President of the United Republic of Tanzania, Her Excellency Samia Suluhu Hassan’s visit to our Parliament. The visit is very important, especially given that it was made at a time the country was celebrating fifty-nine years of Independence. I am sure, it was not a coincidence, but a deliberately crafted initiative because of the deep bilateral relations between the people of Zambia and our brothers and sisters in Tanzania.

Mr Speaker, the two leaders, our fore-fathers, Mr Mwalimu Julius Kambarage Nyerere and Dr Kenneth David Kaunda, sacrificed their time and lives to emancipate the peoples of the two countries. As a matter of fact, the two were very close and set the foundations for the two nations. It is also important, gratifying and commendable to note that President Hakainde Hichilema is building on the friendship and relationship that existed and continues to exist between the two countries by inviting President Samia Suluhu Hassan to Zambia in the week when we are celebrating our Independence.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalila: All hon. Members have a duty to continue building on the bilateral relations and friendship between the people of Zambia and the people of Tanzania. Our brothers and sisters in Tanzania came to our rescue and aid when the southern trade route was closed during the Unilateral Declaration of Independence (UDI) by the Smith Regime in Rhodesia then by providing an alternative route, which has saved us to this day, in form of the Tanzania-Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA) Railway and the Tanzania-Zambia Mafuta Pipeline (TANZAM). So, I think, our relationship with Tanzania should really be nurtured and appreciated. All of us have a responsibility to continue with that friendship.

Mr Speaker, I also note that in the President’s speech that was given to us yesterday, President Samia Suluhu Hassan mentioned that Dr Kenneth David Kaunda is adored in Tanzania, and those of us who have visited some countries can bear testimony to that. It appeared like an innocuous comment, but even the clothing that Dr Kenneth Kaunda wore during his life here on earth is now an international brand. You all heard how the Tanzanian Parliament has now officially recognised what it calls the Kaunda suit, and an example is what I am wearing. I also note that several of my colleagues here, like the hon. Member of Parliament for Lumezi; his neighbour, Hon. Chitotela; and Hon. Kasauta Michelo are wearing beautiful Kaunda suits. I first heard about the Kaunda suit during a tour of the Parliamentary Committee on Health to Tanzania, and I was a little embarrassed to notice that most of the hon. Members in the Tanzanian Parliament were dressed in that attire. When I asked them about it, they were surprised that I who was from Zambia was asking about the Kaunda Suit when I should have been the one promoting the international brand. So, Dr Kenneth David Kaunda and his colleague, Mr Julius Kambarage Nyerere, made an impression on the African continent that continues to linger on to this day.

Mr Speaker, incidentally, one of Dr Kenneth Kaunda’s children was named Kambarage and, I am sure, we all know about that. So, the friendship was based on deep love and economic emancipation, which continues today, and that is why our friends in Tanzania have even offered us, Zambians, 20 ha of land for a dry port that will be established in Tanzania to continue the legacy of Dr Kenneth Kaunda and Mr Nyerere. Apart from that, as you heard, the period during which the United Republic of Tanzania will not charge us has been extended from fifteen days to forty-five days. As if that was not kind enough, the President announced that we will no longer need a Visa to go to Tanzania for up to 180 days or six months. That is the spirit of the African Continental Free Trade Area. As the African continent, we now wish to promote the free movement of people from one African country to another. So, the two countries are setting an example, and I wish to commend that.

Mr Speaker, all hon. Members of Parliament have a responsibility to follow the example that is now being set by President Hakainde Hichilema and President Hassan. As a Parliament, we also need to do our part. The two Presidents have set the tone and our forefathers laid the foundation. The onus is now on us, as a Parliament. Let me be the first one to suggest that, going forward, we form the Tanzanian-Zambia Parliamentary Friendship Association to build on the legacy that was started by our colleagues.

Mr Speaker, I am grateful that our President sought a befitting guest to visit Zambia in the week we are celebrating our Independence. I hope, all of us will promote peace, trade and a lasting friendship between Zambia and Tanzania.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me, on behalf of the people of Mpika, to add my voice to the debate on this very important Motion.

Mr Speaker, let me begin by applauding Her Excellency President Samia Suluhu Hassan, for visiting our country. Let me also thank the Government for inviting her.

Mr Speaker, President Samia Suhulu Hassan, in her speech, reminded all hon. Members of Parliament that they are the voices of the people. This is a very good reminder to all of us here. We are the voices of the people. Nineteen point nine million Zambians have deposited their voices into us. When I speak, I am not speaking because I want to, but because the people of Mpika want to speak.

Mr Speaker, we have a challenge regarding the rule of law, which is impeding the voice of Parliamentarians. Right now, our positions, we, the majority on your left, hang in the balance. An invisible hand has sponsored confusion in our party.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Kapyanga: How do we speak for our people when we –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Mpika!

Stick to the speech delivered by the Tanzanian President. She did not mention what you are talking about.

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, I was driving the point that we, the majority on your left, are supposed to be voices of the people like Her Excellency said. However, our party is marred with confusion sponsored by an invisible hand.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

I have guided you. Maybe, you are not interested in proceeding.

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, Zambia and Tanzania established relations pre-Independence. Mzee Julius Kambarage Nyerere Kwayeri established a good friendship with Dr Kaunda, which culminated in the construction of the Tanzania-Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA) Railway and the Tanzania-Zambia Mafuta (TAZAMA) Pipeline. We have heard from our Government that there is a consideration to concession TAZARA to our friends in China. The current scenario of TAZARA leaves much to be desired. A company that has the capacity to hail 5 million tonnes of cargo per annum only hails 4 per cent of that. We hope that this Government and our sister country will expedite the process of concessioning TAZARA so that it is fully recapitalised. Mpika houses the TAZARA Regional Headquarters. Currently, the company cannot employ the youths in Mpika because it does not have the capacity.

Mr Speaker, I hope, the hon. Minister of Agriculture learnt something from his Tanzanian counterpart. The agricultural sector in Tanzania is run by small-scale farmers under the Global Agriculture Food Programme. Agriculture is a success story in Tanzania, and 80 per cent of Tanzanians are on that programme. The same programme contributes 30 per cent to the gross domestic product (GDP) of Tanzania. Here, we have a programme called the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), but our farmers share farming inputs in tumeda, bowls and utumatepe.

Mr Speaker, the President of the United Republic of Tanzania indicated that the two Parliaments are very important in strengthening the relationship between Zambia and Tanzania, and the projects that the two countries intend to implement jointly. We will support where need be but, in Tanzania, they are facing a serious challenge. They have given the Tanzania Port Authority to a company based in Dubai, but the Tanzanians have refused that. Even here, we will refuse the privatisation of roads through public-private partnerships (PPPs). We object to that.

Laughter

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, let me talk about the Tunduma/Nakonde Border Post. I think, the relationship between Tanzania and Zambia is one-sided. The people on the Tanzanian side come and trade on the Zambian side without border passes. They even own shops on the Zambian side, but our people are not allowed to own shops on the Tanzanian side. What kind of a relationship is that? That is not a relationship. The relationship between Tanzania and Zambia should start from the border areas, where our people live close to one another. The situation in Nakonde leaves much to be desired. Zambians are not allowed to own shops and trade on the Tanzanian side, but our brothers and sisters from Tanzania come to the Zambian side and own shops in Chianga, at Kabakaba and almost everywhere else. They even own houses on the Zambian side. However, our people cannot do the same on the Tanzanian side because of the regulations that are there. If the relationship between Zambia and Tanzania is strong, let us see it begin from the border town of Nakonde and Tanzania.

Mr Speaker, the other issue is that our people who go to collect motor vehicles in Tanzania are harassed by Tanzanian police officers. Even our truck drivers are harassed by Tanzanian truck owners, who do not want our trucks to go to Tanzania to get merchandise. That must come to an end if the relationship between Zambia and Tanzania is anything to talk about.

Mr Speaker, time is very jealous. I support the Motion and urge our Government to take a leaf from Tanzania.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Mr Speaker, I thank Her Honour the Vice-President for ably moving the Motion.

Mr Speaker, I would like to state that the address by the Tanzanian President was historic, as she is the first female Head of State to address this august House. I will restrict my debate to her call on hon. Members of Parliament to support initiatives that will foster strengthening of the the relationship between Tanzania and Zambia.

Mr Speaker, Tanganyika and Zanzibar came together to form Tanzania, just like Barotseland and Northern Rhodesia came together to form Zambia. So, we have a lot in common. The relationship between His Excellency the late Dr David Kenneth Kaunda and Mr Julius Kambarage Nyerere explains that.

Mr Speaker, I agree with the President of the United Republic of Tanzania that we need to address the bottlenecks on the Tunduma/Nakonde Border, and it is important that this Parliament supports the allocation of resources towards cementing that relationship. That includes renovating the infrastructure we share with Tanzania, such as, the Tanzania-Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA) and the Tanzania-Zambia Mafuta (TAZAMA) Pipeline. I would also like to commend the Tanzanian Government for offering 20 ha of land at the port to Zambia, and our President for continuing to cement our relationship with Tanzania, which should not be politicised, as it is very important. Considering that we are landlocked, we need to continue fostering an agenda that promotes Zambia’s trade. The President of the Republic of Tanzania mentioned various joint initiatives, and one of them is looking at how we can revive TAZAMA Pipeline by addressing the bottlenecks.

Mr Speaker, on behalf of the people of Nalolo, I would like to commend Her Excellency the President of the United Republic of Tanzania for coming to this august House. I also appeal to us, as Legislators, to be part of the conversation that is taking place between the Executives. I feel that this gives a spirit of inclusivity because the Executive cannot deliver without the Legislature. So, we should be included in the process. Going forward, Zambia must equally reciprocate this kind of diplomacy. Whether it be political or economic, the doctrine of reciprocity should apply so that we build upon the Pan-African legacies of Dr Kaunda and Mr Julius Kambarage Nyerere. It was President Nyerere who mediated between Dr Kaunda and President Chiluba between 1997 and 1998.

Mr Speaker, the Tanzanian President also spoke about how the effects of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) and the Ukraine-Russia war have ravaged our economic fortunes and affected Southern Africa, considering that no country lives in isolation. Clearly, it is very important for us to continue talking about peace at the global level, considering the war that has erupted in Israel.

Mr Speaker, in summary, for me, the President of the United Republic of Tanzania’s speech was inspirational, and I would like to unreservedly support this Motion.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister of Local Government, Housing and Rural Development may take the Floor.

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Just a point of correction, Mr Speaker. It is Local Government and Rural Development.

Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate Her Excellency Samia Suluhu Hassan’s speech. I also thank Her Honour the Vice-President for ably moving this Motion for us to comment on the very brief but important inspirational address.

Mr Speaker, the President of the United Republic of Tanzania was very clear about the advocacy for swift reforms –

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of procedure and practice of the House. Ordinarily, hon. Ministers make submissions on any Motion after hon. Members have debated. The President of the United Republic of Tanzania said that hon. Members of Parliament represent the people. However, hon. Members have not debated on this Motion, yet the hon. Minister has been called upon to debate as a sign of this debate being closed.

Mr Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, that is not true. For this Motion, Her Honour the Vice-President will respond on behalf of the Executive, thereby making hon. Ministers eligible to contribute to the debate. So, there is nothing wrong. I know, you are used to other Motions that are moved on the Floor of the House, but this one is peculiar. We are learning, and we will keep learning.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I had just finished thanking Her Honour the Vice-President and was indicating that the President of the United Republic of Tanzania made a submission about the historical ties between our country and Tanzania, and specifically referred to the revered two individuals, Dr Kenneth David Kaunda, the First Republican President of Zambia, and Mr Mwalimu Julius Kambarage Nyerere, the First President of Tanzania.

Mr Speaker, the President of the United Republic of Tanzania also indicated her strong advocacy for the swift reform of the Tanzania-Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA) to foster stronger trade co-operation between the two countries, improve it as a gateway into the market and enable us to receive things that we are not able to produce in this country. She also spoke about the Tanzania-Zambia Mafuta (TAZAMA) Pipeline, which was another relief for this country at the time our forefathers established it in order to ease the challenges associated with the transportation of oil. She was very clear in saying that TAZARA is operating at 4 per cent, carrying only about 210 metric tonnes of cargo, when the infrastructure has the capacity to carry in excess of 4 million metric tonnes of cargo per annum.

Mr Speaker, we, in Zambia, are living the dream by having rehabilitated, most recently, the TAZAMA Pipeline in order for it to be of more use to us, considering the escalating cost of the much-desired fuel in our country and the world over.

Mr Speaker, I heard some comments regarding TAZARA. At the time we got into office, TAZARA, on the Zambian side, had actually come in from the cold, but we managed to pay all the salary arrears for TAZARA employees. We even moved a Motion when we were in the Opposition to revitalise TAZARA and give it hope.

Mr Speaker, the President of the United Republic of Tanzania asked us, hon. Members of Parliament, to support Government initiatives in order for us to fulfil our duty as representatives. She was very clear in saying that the role of a Parliamentarian is to support the projects implemented by the Government by providing political backing. That statement sat very well with me because the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government has decided to involve hon. Members of Parliament more deeply and more hands-on in its developmental programmes using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

Mr Speaker, the President of the United Republic of Tanzania indicated that we must, as much as possible, play our role of supporting the Budget and garnering some community buy-in from our electorates. The situation is now different. People only had a paltry K1.6 million to spend on their constituencies, but they have now been given K30.6 million. Some people are losing sight of the fact that this is a platform for them to entrench themselves and leave a legacy that will keep their names in the annals of history after they are long gone. It is a fact that, today, hon. Members of Parliament have real work to do under the CDF Budget Line. An hon. Member of Parliament who is negative will not support this Government programme.

Mr Speaker, the President of the United Republic of Tanzania was very clear on how she wished our people at our border would develop more friendlier attitudes among themselves because our border is porous. Some of our relatives live on one side of the border and others live on the other side because they are not marked by physical features. In the case of Nakonde and Tunduma, people move freely at the border and, sometimes, it is difficult to tell who is a Tanzanian and who is a Zambian.

Mr Speaker, the President of the United Republic of Tanzania requested us to support her brother, Mr Hakainde Hichilema. At this juncture, I think, it is only befitting that we focus on the fact that she was invited by a serious individual. The selected guest to grace the Fifty-Ninth Independence Celebrations could not have been any better than the President who came to address us yesterday. So, I congratulate our President and encourage him to keep his eyes on the ball. Those of us who believe in his dream will continue to soldier on towards transforming the living conditions of our people.

Mr Speaker, despite the President of the United Republic of Tanzania giving respect to hon. Members of Parliament, there is an insinuation that hon. Members of Parliament are not getting support. I would like to end by saying that as a man lives, so shall he die. If you live by the sword, you will die by the sword. If you live by the sword and you go into self-destruction mode, like our colleagues’ party –

Mr Nkandu: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: I wish our colleagues a quick healing in view of the past elections that were disputed, which led to Mr Miles Bwalya Sampa being declared President of the Patriotic Front (PF) party, and the case is now in a court of law.

Mr Mukosa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nkombo: Since we are not party to that, we have no option, but to congratulate our colleagues.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mukosa: Mr Speaker, I am concerned with the manner in which we, as a House, are proceeding. The practice is that people to debate are picked from the console when they indicate, and I understand that there is a list of hon. Members from the United Party for National Development (UPND) and the Patriotic Front (PF). However, I have noticed that the hon. Member for Lumezi has been skipped over four times and I do not understand the criterion that has been used to skip him or not allow him to debate. That is unfair because when he was applying for adoption, he was mistreated, and that is why he stood as an Independent. He is now being mistreated in this House by not being given the chance to debate, and I find that unfair. So, my point of order is on whether this House is in order to proceed in this way.

I seek your ruling, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Thank you for the point of order.

To start with, hon. Member, you are out of order ...

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: ... because the point of order you have raised is against the Chair, who is responsible for choosing who debates. So, the rules that govern you, as hon. Member of Parliament, do not allow you to do that. Further, the Independent Whip gave me a list, and the hon. Member for Lumezi is among those who will debate. The Patriotic Front (PF) party and the United Party for National Development (UPND) also gave me lists. So, according to precedence, the hon. Member for Lumezi is the last debater amongst the Independent hon. Members. At times, it is better to play it the easy way.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: It is better to be modest, especially when you are amongst your colleagues. It helps. That has helped me and enabled me to be where I am today. So, let us be modest and do that which we are supposed to do.

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Mr Speaker, I want to be modest in my debate.

Mr Speaker, a picture is worth a thousand words, says the Englishman. The picture that, for many years, will be in the minds of those who saw the President of the United Republic of Tanzania speak to the nation through this Assembly is that of respect. She was coerced to take a seat, but she refused and said that she needed to respect hon. Members of Parliament.

Mr Speaker, a President was invited to a certain nation by another President and was asked to spend two days, but he only spent a few hours and went back to his country.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, respect was given to the nation. I benefited from the President of the United Republic of Tanzania’s discourse and, I hope, the people of Zambia also benefited.

Mr Speaker, most of the achievements spoken about, like the establishment of the Tanzania-Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA), were as a result of the challenges that Zambians faced, and Zambians created a friendship that could solve their problems. The British South African Company (BSACO) problems in the southern part of our country restricted our trade. The Hell Run on the other side was really hell. So, TAZARA was born.

Mr Speaker, today, Zambians are hungry, and this is a problem. Today, Zambians are feeding on imported mealie meal.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya: This is our problem.

Mr Speaker, we need to draw on the wisdom of the Tanzanian President to solve our problems today.

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order raised.

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Mr Speaker, my point of order is pursuant to Standing Order No. 65.

Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member in order to mislead the nation by saying that Zambians are feeding on imported mealie meal, yet Zambians are feeding on the mealie meal that they produced from their fields and sold to the millers in Zambia and the Zambia National Service (ZNS), which has been very instrumental in reducing the price of mealie meal and ensuring that it is available on the shelves in the shops? Is he in order to lie on the Floor of the House that Zambians are eating imported mealie meal?

I seek your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Lunte is out of order because the hon. Minister of Agriculture has, on the Floor of the House, indicated severally that we currently have sufficient food stock and that we will not import maize unless otherwise.

Hon. Member, avoid misleading the public. Just stick to the President’s Address rather than politicking.

You may continue.

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, an hon. Minister should be better informed.

Mr Speaker, those people who do not feel for the poor should learn something from the President who came to address us. Those who think that selling 1 litre of fuel at K30 is good should learn something from the President who came to address us.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Kafwaya: Even those who think that a 25 kg of mealie meal being sold at K300 or K400 is good should learn something from the President of the United Republic of Tanzania.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, those who are breaking gates to arrest unarmed citizens should learn something from the President of the United Republic of Tanzania.

Mr Speaker, on page 17 of her address, the President of the United Republic of Tanzania says the following:

“I call upon you to transmit my message of solidarity to the brotherly people of Zambia, and our rally to them saying tiyende pamodzi.”

Mr Speaker, I have heard how Dr Kaunda is revered in South Africa, but I do not know if the President of the United Republic of Tanzania was informed that elsewhere he is called a ‘clique of thieves’. I am unaware whether the President of the United Republic of Tanzania knows the extent of tribalism in our country. Does she know the extent of regionalism in our country?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

May you resume your seat.

One of the roles of a Member of Parliament, who happens to be a national leader, is not to divide the country. Our Standing Orders provide that we should not be incitive in our approach to duty. Let us not divide ourselves.

Mr Kapyanga: We are already divided.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: So, avoid such sentiments and just debate the President’s Address. Your friends would like to debate, and the interjections are not healthy. So, debate accordingly.

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, I am a patriotic Zambian, and I will die one. That is why I will not accept tribalism, and I will speak against it here and outside the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Speaker, I suppose, the President of the United Republic of Tanzania cannot participate in disorganising an opposition political party. However, hon. Ministers in this country have stated that they are part of those disorganising the Patriotic Front (PF). That is abhorrent and it should not happen. Therefore, we ought to learn from people who mean well and have respect for democracy, leadership and the rule of law.

Mr Speaker, I was happy to see the President of the United Republic of Tanzania speak to us, and I assure her, through Her Honour the Vice-President, that I will be in the forefront in carrying the message of solidarity, as she requested. However, I will be honest and say that in some instances, she was misled because if she knew how President KK (Kenneth Kaunda) is looked upon now, she would not have demonstrated how much he is revered in Tanzania.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, I call on you to transmit my invitation to Zambians to trade in Tanzania. Let us not treat this opportunity like we did in Namibia, where just because it was a particular businessman, we went and disorganised the portion of the port that he was given to develop. Every Zambian should be given an opportunity –

Ms Mulenga: Ndambo!

Mr Kafwaya: Oh, is it Ndambo?

Hon. PF Members: Yes, it is Ndambo.

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, every Zambian should be given an opportunity to flourish. The Government machinery must not say that because you are Ndambo, you cannot do business in Namibia or because you are Kafwaya, you cannot do business in Tanzania. The Government machinery should seize such opportunities and encourage Zambians to take their place in the regional economy.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, those who are talking about me having crossed the post are dreaming.

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, I think that the Tanzanian President cannot make illegal appointments like we have seen in this country. The Auditor-General who was appointed is over the retirement age, but that was justified on the Floor of the House by someone who holds the highest position in the land, yet our colleagues say that this Government actually upholds the rule of law. It is embarrassing for the Government to contract illegal audits and fail to pay for them on account of the details contained in the findings. I think that Her Excellency the President of United Republic of Tanzania who came to this House has a lot to teach us for this country to be better.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Mr Speaker, I thank you most sincerely for permitting the voice of Lumezi to support the Motion of Thanks. Furthermore, permit me to mention that Her Excellency the President of the United Republic of Tanzania’s Address to us was timely, as it was made when Zambians were celebrating fifty-nine years of Independence.

Mr Speaker, in the future, when this august House receives a visitor of that stature, that visitor should first of all be given an opportunity to have a tete-a-tete with opposition hon. Members of Parliament so that the information that is shared on the Floor of the House is not misleading, but also factual.

Mr Speaker, on page 3 of the President of the United Republic of Tanzania’s speech, Her Excellency was very eloquent and clear when she said that she would like to congratulate all the hon. Members. She did not congratulate only hon. Members of the United Party for National Development (UPND), Patriotic Front (PF), Party for National Unity and Progress (PNUP) or Independent hon. Members, but all hon. Members. Had she known that when hon. Members raise matters of urgent public importance, those matters are rarely admissible not because hon. Members do not understand the criteria used to raise matters of urgent public importance, and had she been oriented before addressing the House that hon. Members of Parliament are rarely allowed to make complete submissions, she would not have spoken to us in that fashion.

Mr Speaker, Her Excellency the President of the United Republic of Tanzania spoke about many things, but one thing that attracted my attention was her level of humility. When her Aide-de-Camp asked her to take a seat as she addressed hon. Members of Parliament, she refused and said that, “look, how do I sit when I am addressing hon. Members of Parliament.” We are being appreciated by people from a foreign land, but ridiculed and called all sorts of names by this regime that thinks that when you deregister an organisation, then, you have deregistered human beings. One cannot deregister the unity of purpose of people.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munir Zulu: One cannot deregister an association of people. One can do that on paper, but one cannot deregister my relationship with the hon. Member for Petauke Central. It is not possible.

Mr Speaker, Her Excellency the President of the United Republic of Tanzania’s level of humility took me across the Lusangazi River in Lumezi, the Kariba Dam and the River Nile. Had the African Union (AU) Charter permitted Africans to be swapping Presidents, I would have chosen President Suluhu Hassan …

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munir Zulu: … to be my leader because of her level of humility.

Laughter

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, the level of her humility in leading is second to none. In my culture, ordinarily men lead and I would rarely support a woman to lead, but that is one woman whom I am comfortable to follow.

Mr Samakayi: Question!

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, you will not hear the brutality that we have gone through even though our colleagues have been saying that they have brought about the law of rule. Which rule of law? Is it the rule of law that allows them to break into my house when I am not armed? Is it the rule of law that allows only fifteen police officers from one region to be attending to all political matters in this country? Instead of fusing in people from the north, east, west and south when constituting a crack squad to be arresting politicians, without shame, they picked fifteen people from the same region, who are known, and then we say that there is the rule of law. Can we have shame. What I saw in the President of the United Republic of Tanzania is, indeed, what the Arabs mean when they say that leadership is an amaana. It is a trust from the people. The people can withdraw it or give it back to you because it is a trust.

Mr Speaker, had the President of the United Republic of Tanzania known that as she was addressing us here, Mr Sean Tembo’s house, because he is from the east, was being broken into with a 15-inch hammer, she was not going to refer to Mr Kenneth Kaunda’s famous “Tiyende Pamodzi” quote, which in Swahili is ‘ujamaa’. Where is ujamaa in this nation today? We are failing to amend the Constitution because we cannot move together. Our failure to move together is not because Hon. Miles Sampa is a defunct President of the PF. It is because we have failed to unite in this House. That is the truth. Those who oriented the President before she addressed us fed her lies. So, she spoke to us not having been well informed.

Mr Speaker, can you imagine that last year, when maize was stolen by a District Commissioner (DC) in Lumezi, we were told that the DC had been fired. That did not happen. Last week, we had a disaster in Lumezi for which fifty bags of mealie meal were delivered, but the DC, again, stole fifteen bags of mealie meal.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

May you resume your seat.

Do not talk about people who cannot defend themselves. If there is rivalry between the two of you, this should not be the point of its settlement. The District Commissioner (DC) is in Lumezi. So, why are you talking about him here? Just concentrate on the President’s address. That is where our interest is.

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, how I wish you knew that I have never even met the new DC, but I know that fifteen bags of mealie meal went missing. However, it is not my wish to engage you in a conversation.

Mr Speaker, in the interest of time, to wind up, let me say that we are here to represent the people. I hope, no hon. Member in this House or support staff, starting today, will curtail our debates. Allow us to speak freely. If our colleagues oppose what we say, let them oppose. Do not defend them by saying that “It does not qualify” because they are showing their incompetence.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mulenga: Hammer, hammer!

The Vice-President: I hammer you, my daughter? I can.

Mr Speaker, I just want to appreciate the fact that the people took this address seriously. I would have thought one would just say ‘thank you’ and I would just say ‘thank you’. However, this seems to have been an opportunity to pick a well-meaning word from the speech of Her Excellency to bring out what people may have been harbouring in their hearts. There is a lot of misrepresentation from what was well meant for purposes of making political statements, most of which would not be supported by evidence. If we were told to lay the evidence of the allegations on the Table, as the procedure of the House is, there would be no evidence.

Mr Speaker, the debate has brought out many accusations, and that shows that the President brought out issues that could make us be positive in this House if we wanted to be positive. I do not want to repeat the words that have been used during the debate on the address to the House. However, I agree that this House is supposed to work to bring unity. I think, it is within the laws of our land and traditional laws. You become the owner and the disseminator of the words that you speak. As a leader, one cannot continuously hammer on the negatives and allege divisions in the manner that we do. Our role, as leaders who have been elected, is to speak about unity because in our speeches, somebody will catch the beautiful word of unity, not bringing outright on the podium other issues. There might be a person somewhere who does not even know what you are talking about. Some people talked about appointments that they have heard about, but do not know much about them. People really debated about many things.

Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Members for listening to Her Excellency the President of the United Republic of Tanzania, who spoke about what we are supposed to do to be united. We will follow the path of our founding fathers, maintain the relationships and friendships that they built and build on the development projects they implemented. I am sure, hon. Members are following, and even those we may want to exchange Presidents with have heard that we are already working together with Tanzania to revamp and expand the projects that our forefathers began, who are dear to us and were on the right path. Our forefathers did not stand here and make statements as we do. So, we have a duty to bring love and unity to this country.

Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Members and I appreciate what they have said. If it is not true, it is in their hearts.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.

BUDGET 2024

(Debate resumed)

The Minister of Tourism (Mr Sikumba): Mr Speaker, I wish to, first and foremost, thank you for according me this rare opportunity to contribute to the debate on the 2024 Budget delivered by Hon. Dr Situmbeko Musokotwane in this august House on Friday, 29^th September, 2023.

Mr Speaker, I sincerely thank all my fellow hon. Members who have spoken before me on the 2024 Budget Address. I also wish to thank the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, and the entire Cabinet under the leadership of His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, for delivering such a well-thought-through Budget to the people of the Republic of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, let me hasten to state that the 2024 Budget totalling K177.9 billion, which was delivered under the theme “Unlocking Economic Potential”, is not only progressive and inspiring, but also perfectly reflects the New Dawn Government’s policy direction and the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP), which promotes economic growth through enhanced private sector investment, increased production and productivity, and improved public service delivery. With the outstanding performance of the 2023 Budget, I am more than optimistic that the 2024 Budget will attain its objectives. There is now stability and certainty in our economy as a result of fiscal discipline, debt restructuring and the conducive business environment that has been created.

Mr Speaker, Zambia is richly endowed with natural and wildlife resources for tourism development, which has not fully been explored. The recent past performance of the sector, such as the rapid recovery from the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic and increased number of international arrivals is a testament to the tourism sector’s potential to do much more and turn the wheels of our economy.

Mr Speaker, I am delighted to see the unprecedented political will by the New Dawn Administration towards the development of the tourism sector. As we always say, the idea of walking the talk is evident in the New Dawn Government. The tourism sector has witnessed an increase in budgetary allocations from the time the New Dawn Administration took over the administration of this country. For instance, in the 2024 Budget, the allocation to the ministry has increased by 30.6 per cent, from K589.1 million in 2023 to an astounding K769.5 million in 2024. This is commendable, as it enables the ministry to effectively implement programmes in wildlife conservation and management, tourism development and promotion, culture preservation and development, and management and support services, to mention but a few.

Mr Speaker, the 2024 Budget will enable the ministry to continue with infrastructure development in terms of access and new roads leading to our national parks, making the parks more accessible, and other infrastructure that will make our tourism sites more attractive. As mentioned by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, our focus areas for 2024 will be the Liuwa National Park in the Western Province, Kasaba Bay in the Northern Province and the source of the Zambezi River in the North-Western Province. The ministry will also ensure that the policy and legal environment is conducive enough to enhance private sector participation and conservation.

Mr Speaker, the ministry will complete the review of the Wildlife Act No. 14 of 2015, and will ensure that all tourism sites are accessible and attractive to both local and domestic tourists. As alluded to by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning in his 2024 Budget presentation, the ministry will develop the Tourism Satellite Account, which is a standard statistical framework and main tool for economic measurement of tourism that brings out various statistics together in order to accurately measure tourism activities’ contributions to the gross domestic product (GDP). This will be the litmus test that my ministry will use to ask for more money for its activities from the Treasury. An inter-ministerial technical committee led by the ministry and the Zambia Statistics Agency (ZamStats) is in place, and data collection tools have been developed. We are happy that the 2024 Budget has made provisions for that very important undertaking.

Mr Speaker, the ministry will closely work with other line ministries and co-operating partners to facilitate the development of the tourism sector. As a ministry, we are delighted by the increase in the budgetary allocation to other key areas that affect tourism. The Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and Social Protection Fund are expected to spur development at the community level and improve the livelihood of our people. Further, the increase in the allocation towards infrastructure development, such as, roads and airports is a plus in the sector, as it will enhance connectivity in our tourism sites.

Mr Speaker, let me conclude by stating that the 2024 Budget is very progressive, as it seeks to promote the much-needed private investment that will translate into more jobs and economic growth. The New Dawn Government is very emphatic in ensuring that the private sector, this time around, takes the lead in driving the agenda of the economy. Therefore, I wish to unreservedly support the Budget and request all well-meaning hon. Members to support it.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

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The House adjourned at 1841 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 27^th October, 2023.

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