Thursday, 5^th October, 2023

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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RULING BY MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER

POINT OF ORDER RAISED ON FRIDAY, 15^TH SEPTEMBER, 2023, BY MR M. FUBE, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR CHILUBI CONSTITUENCY, ON MR. SIMUSHI, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR SIKONGO CONSTITUENCY, FOR ALLEGEDLY DEBATING A FELLOW HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, the House will recall that on Friday, 15^th September, 2023, when the House was debating the Motion of Thanks to His Excellency the President’s Address for the Official Opening of the Third Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, and Hon. Simushi, Member of Parliament for Sikongo Constituency, was on the Floor, Hon. Fube, Member of Parliament for Chilubi Constituency, raised a point of order. In his point of order, Hon. Fube cited Order No. 65 of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021, which requires a Member debating to confine his or her debate to the subject under discussion. Hon. Fube inquired whether Hon. Simushi was in order to debate a fellow hon. Member of Parliament, contrary to the rules of debate.

In his immediate response, the Hon. Mr Second Deputy Speaker reserved his ruling to enable him to study the matter. I have since studied the matter, and, I now render the ruling.

The point of order raises the issue of an hon. Member’s duty to ensure that when debating, the hon. Member confines his or her debate to the subject matter under discussion. Hon. Members, in studying this matter, I had recourse to the relevant verbatim record of proceedings for Friday, 15^th September, 2023, in order to ascertain whether Hon. Simushi made the statement as alleged. The verbatim record confirms that while debating, Hon. Simushi made reference to hon. Members on the left and stated that they needed to accept that they had lost elections and were never going to be in power again.

Hon. Members, it is clear from the verbatim record that Hon. Simushi included his fellow hon. Members of Parliament in his debate, contrary to the rules of debate. The subject under discussion at the time was His Excellency, the President’s Address on the Official Opening for the Third Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly.

Hon. Members, as you are aware, Standing Order No. 65(1)(a) requires a Member debating to confine his or her debate to the subject under discussion. Further, in line with parliamentary practice and procedure, and, indeed, the traditions of this House, it is customary for hon. Members to refrain from including other hon. Members in their debate. In view of this, Hon. Simushi, Member of Parliament, breached Standing Order No. 65(1)(a) and was, therefore, out of order.

I thank you.

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MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

REV. KATUTA, HON. MEMBER FOR CHIENGE, ON HER HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT, MRS NALUMANGO, ON EAR, NOSE AND THROAT SPECIALISTS BEING BASED ONLY IN LUSAKA AND THE COPPERBELT

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing the people of Chienge to rise on this very important matter of urgent public importance which is directed to the Leader of Government Business in the House, Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, Zambia is not only Lusaka or the Copperbelt. However, ear, nose and throat (ENT) specialists are all based in Lusaka and on the Copperbelt. We have Zambians in Chienge, Shangombo, Petauke, Nakonde, Mwandi and all over Zambian.

Madam Speaker, when somebody suffers from ear problems, it is not a simple condition. People are dying because there are no doctors to attend to them, and nurses cannot diagnose this problem. A person goes to a clinic saying ‘I am losing balance and I am in pain’ but there is no one to give them proper attention.

Madam Speaker, is this Government in order to not deploy ENT specialists to rural areas, such as Chienge, Mwandi, Sesheke, Kalabo and everywhere else as long as it is not on the Copperbelt or in Lusaka Province?

I need your serious ruling on this one, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you, hon. Member, for this matter. However, much as it is important, I am sure, you can use another avenue because you will also need to get a lot of information from the hon. Minister. I do not know whether it is the hon. Minister of Health or Her Honour the Vice-President. You mentioned that it is supposed to be Her Honour the Vice-President. Further, I would rather you use another avenue because this is not a recent problem; it has been there. Therefore, I advise you to find another avenue for bringing this matter to the House. You can also use Her Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time or, indeed, file in a question that will be directed to the hon. Minister of Health so that more clarity is provided on your question.

I thank you.

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

WEATHER AND CLIMATE SERVICES AND THE 2023/2024 RAINY SEASON FORECAST

The Minister of Green Economy and Environment (Eng. Nzovu): Madam Speaker, I wish to take this opportunity to thank you most sincerely for granting me the honour and privilege to deliver a ministerial statement on the weather and climate services as well as share the 2023/2024 Rainy Season Forecast for Zambia.

Madam Speaker, weather and climate are critical factors that affect the livelihoods, well-being and development of our people, especially in terms of supporting productivity in sectors such as agriculture, water, energy, health and disaster management. Therefore, it is imperative that we have reliable and timely information on current and future weather and climate conditions, to enable us to plan and implement appropriate measures to mitigate the impacts of adverse events and harness the opportunities of favourable ones.

Madam Speaker, as you may be aware, Zambia is a signatory to the World Meteorological Organisation (WMO), the specialised agency of the United Nations (UN) that co-ordinates and facilitates the provision of weather and climate services globally. As a member State, we are obliged to adhere to the standards and practices set by the WMO, as well as contribute to the global observing system and exchange data with other countries. In this regard, I am pleased to report to this august House that the New Dawn Government, under the leadership of His Excellency Mr Hakainde Hichilema, President of the Republic of Zambia, has been making commendable efforts to improve the capacity and performance of the Meteorological Department, under the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment, in delivering quality weather and climate services to various users and stakeholders.

Madam Speaker, some of the notable achievements and improvements in 2023 are:

1. the installation and operationalisation of over eighty automatic weather stations across the country, which has modernised and enhanced the spatial coverage and frequency of weather observations. This august House may wish to note that every district will be provided with an automatic weather station by the end of 2023, bringing automatic weather stations installed in 2023 to 120;

1. the implementation of quality management systems at international airports to improve the provision of weather services for safety and efficiency of aviation operations;

1. the acquisition and installation of high-performance computing facilities as well as satellite receiving systems, which has enabled the access to, and utilisation of high-resolution satellite imagery and global climate models and products for weather and climate analysis and forecasting;

1. the development and dissemination of various weather and climate products and services, such as daily weather bulletins, seasonal climate outlooks, agrometeorological advisories, flash flood early warning alerts and aviation meteorological services;

1. the establishment and strengthening of partnerships and collaborations with various national, regional and international institutions and organisations, such as the Ministry of Agriculture, the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) under the Vice-President’s Office, the Water Resource Management Authority (WARMA), the Southern African Development Community Climate Services Centre (SADC-CSC), the African Centre of Meteorological Applications for Development (ACMAD), the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP)  and the World Bank;

1. participation in and contribution to various regional and global initiatives and projects on weather and climate services, such as the Global Framework for Climate Services (GFCS), the Climate Risk and Early Warning Systems Initiative (CREWS) and the Severe Weather Forecasting Demonstration Project (SWFDP); and

1. training of over 200 Agriculture Camp Extension Officers in Lusaka Province, the Southern Province, the Eastern Province, the Western Province and Muchinga Province in the interpretation of climate information to support small-holder farmers. This will strengthen resilience to climate variability and climate change, thereby increasing productivity and food security at the household level.

Madam Speaker, the achievements cited have not only enhanced the visibility and credibility of meteorological services, but also increased the capacity of the ministry, through the Meteorological Department, to provide timely and accurate weather and climate information to support decision-making at various levels. However, there are still some challenges and gaps that need to be addressed in order to further improve the quality and delivery of weather and climate services in our country. Some of these challenges are:

1. inadequate human resources in terms of the number of meteorological staff;

1. insufficient financial resources to sustain the operation and maintenance of meteorological infrastructure and equipment;

1. inadequate transport to facilitate operations and maintenance of meteorological infrastructure across the country;

1. limited access to advanced technologies and tools, such as weather radars and upper air stations for weather analysis and forecasting;

1. low awareness and appreciation of weather and climate services among some users and stakeholders; and

1. weak co-ordination and integration of weather and climate services into sectoral policies and plans.

Madam Speaker, in view of the challenges noted, my ministry has developed a strategic plan for the 2O22-2027 period that outlines the vision, mission, goals and objectives for improving meteorological services. The strategic plan also identifies the priority areas and actions that need to be taken in order to enhance the capacity and performance of our Meteorological Department in delivering quality weather and climate services to various users and stakeholders. Some of the priority areas and actions are:

1. the recruitment and training of more meteorological staff to fill the existing and emerging gaps in skills and competencies;

1. the mobilisation and allocation of adequate financial resources to the operation and maintenance of meteorological infrastructure and equipment;

1. the acquisition and utilisation of advanced technologies and tools, such as the weather radar and upper air systems, for weather analysis and forecasting;

1. the development and implementation of a communication and outreach strategy to raise awareness and appreciation of weather and climate services among different users and stakeholders;

1. the establishment and strengthening of a co-ordination mechanism to facilitate the integration of weather and climate services into sectoral policies and plans by developing a National Framework for Climate Services; and

1. the review of the 2013 National Meteorology Policy.

Madam Speaker, my ministry is committed to implementing the strategic plan in collaboration with other relevant partners and stakeholders. We believe that this will enable us to provide better weather and climate services that will contribute to socio-economic development and resilience-building in our country.

Madam Speaker, let me now turn to the outlook for the 2023/2024 Rainy Season. As you may recall, the 2022/2023 Rainy Season was characterised by above-normal rainfall, with extreme weather and climate events, from episodes of flash floods and flooding to prolonged dry spells, especially in areas of the Southern Province, Central Province and Lusaka Province. That resulted in reduced crop production, damage to infrastructure, such as roads and bridges, increased incidence of water-borne diseases and agricultural pests.

Madam Speaker, the 2023/2024 seasonal forecast and outlook has been produced based on the analysis of the prevailing and expected global and regional climate drivers, such as the El Nino-Southern Oscillation (ENSO) and the Indian Ocean Dipole (lOD). This analysis has been done by the Meteorological Department in collaboration with the SADC-CSC and other regional and international climate centres. This august House may wish to note that the 2023/2024 Rainy Season pattern will be largely influenced by the El Nino and the IOD, which have a tendency to suppress rainfall over the southern half of the country and enhance rainfall amounts over the north-eastern parts of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, the 2023/2024 Rainy Season forecast indicates that:

1. the rainy season is likely to start this month over the northern parts of the North-Western Province, Luapula Province and the Northern Province. The onset for areas over the southern parts of the country is likely to be by the end of December. Areas over the rest of the country are likely to have their onsets of the rainy season by the end of November;

1. the rainfall amounts are likely to be normal to below-normal in most parts of the country;

1. the rainfall distribution is likely to be erratic and uneven, with some periods of prolonged dry spells and periods of heavy rainfall; and

1. the temperatures are likely to be above-normal in most parts of the country, especially during the day.

Madam Speaker, the detailed 2023/2024 Rainfall Season Forecast is as follows:

1. for the period October to December, Luapula Province, the Northern Province, Muchinga Province, Lusaka Province, Central Province and the Copperbelt Province, and Lundazi, Chama, Kaoma, Kabompo and Kalabo districts have a high chance of receiving normal to below-normal rainfall. During this period, normal to above-normal rainfall is expected over the Southern Province, Western Province, much of the North-Western Province and the Eastern Province, and Mansa and Mpika districts;

1. during the period November to January, much of the eastern half of the country and Kabompo District in the North-Western Province are likely to receive normal to below normal rainfall. However, normal to above-normal rainfall is projected over much of the Southern Province, the Western Province, the North-Western Province and the northern parts of Luapula Province and Muchinga Province, including Mumbwa District;

1. for December to February, the Copperbelt Province, Central Province and Lusaka Province, snd areas around Choma, Petauke, Nyimba, Mbala, Zambezi, Kabombo, Chembe, Milenge and Mansa districts have a high chance of receiving normal to below-normal rainfall. On the other hand, normal rainfall is expected in most parts of the Eastern Province, Muchinga Province, the Northern Province, Luapula Province, the Southern Province, the Western Province and the North-Western Province; and

1. for the period January to March, most parts of Zambia have a high chance of receiving normal to above-normal rainfall, except for areas around Ikeleng’i, Mwinilunga, Mpika, Kasama, Livingstone, Mazabuka, Monze, Kafue and Siavonga districts which are likely to receive normal to below normal-rainfall.

Madam Speaker, this forecast outlook is based on the best available scientific knowledge and information at this time. It is based on the three-month cumulative rainfall totals. Therefore, it is important that we monitor the weather and climate conditions closely and update the nation regularly. It is also essential that we complement this outlook with other weather and climate products and services, such as the ten-day agro-meteorological advisories, the weekly forecasts, as well as the flash flood early warning alerts, that can provide more detailed and tailor-made information for decision-making at various levels.

Madam Speaker, this forecast does not imply that we should relax our efforts in mitigating the impacts of adverse weather and climate events and harnessing the opportunities presented by favourable ones. To the contrary, it ca1ls for more vigilance and preparedness to cope with the potential risks and challenges that may arise from the expected weather and climate conditions. Therefore, it is imperative that we implement appropriate measures to enhance our adaptive capacity and resilience to weather and climate variability and change.

Madam Speaker, some of these measures are:

1. the promotion of climate-smart agricultural practices, such as conservation agriculture, crop diversification, irrigation and water harvesting;

1. the improvement of water resource management, such as water conservation, storage, distribution and quality monitoring;

1. the enhancement of energy security, such as, renewable energy sources and energy efficiency;

1. the strengthening of health systems, such as disease surveillance, prevention, control and treatment; and
2. the reduction of disaster risks, such as early warning systems, contingency planning, and emergency response and recovery.

Madam Speaker, my ministry, in collaboration with other relevant partners and stakeholders, will continue to provide weather and climate information and guidance to support the cited measures.

Madam Speaker, this august House may wish to note that in our effort to reach most of our population, we have translated the 2023/2024 Seasonal Forecast and the anticipated impacts into seven of our local languages. The translated forecast information will be produced and presented in video and audio formats at our newly refurbished meteorological studios. We plan to disseminate this information through the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC), Zambia News and Information Services (ZANIS), and community radio and television stations, and that is where hon. Members of Parliament are encouraged to participate across the country. We will also share this information on social media platforms, including WhatsApp, Facebook, YouTube and the ministry’s Website. We will further undertake community dissemination activities to share the information.

Madam Speaker, the Provincial Meteorological Offices have been tasked to ensure that the forecast information is widely circulated. We, therefore, urge all users and sectors to make use of this information and guidance to plan and implement their activities accordingly.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, you are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement issued by the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment.

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for this statement. I know that his ministry works very closely with the Ministry of Agriculture when planning for an agricultural season.

Madam Speaker, my question is related to what we have learnt from the Zambia National Farmers Union (ZNFU), which is that the efficacy of some of the fertiliser that has been supplied has been brought into question. What is the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment, in collaboration with the Ministry of Agriculture, doing to reduce the negative impact that may be occasioned by our small-scale farmers using that fertiliser that is questionable?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the Leader of the Opposition sincerely for this question. However, it will be a bit of a problem for me to comment on the efficacy of the fertiliser when I know very well that this Government has done everything possible to ensure that fertiliser is of the right quality and distribution is done at the right time.

Madam Speaker, you will recall, and the Leader of the Opposition will also recall very well, that in the past years, not only was the efficacy of the fertiliser questioned, but also the quantum or size of the bags. An audit that was carried out not too long ago indicated that whilst the pricing of fertiliser was very high, the quantity and quality was questionable. If there are any questions about the efficacy of the fertiliser, I would encourage the Leader of the Opposition to consult with the hon. Minister of Agriculture, so that he can be informed accordingly.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Madam Speaker, I stand to be corrected, but, in his statement, the hon. Minister has said that all districts in this country will be equipped with automatic equipment before the end of 2023. However, the end of 2023 is only eighty-six days away.

Madam Speaker, my question to the hon. Minister is: Is his ministry going to manage equipping all the districts in this country with automatic equipment before the end of this year?  Further, what is the cost associated with the same project?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I think, let us try as much as possible to not disturb the flow of questions. This is a very important topic, and the people are listening, especially the farmers. The hon. Member for Lunte, you have an opportunity to ask a question. I do not know whether that will suffice. If you can, please, ask a question instead of raising a point of order.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, let me thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Bwacha for this very important question and inform him that the installation of automatic weather stations is key for us in reducing disasters. Disaster risk managements and early warning systems will only work if we have automatic weather stations across the length and breadth of the country. I think, this is key. I would also like to echo the Hon. Madam Speaker’s guidance that we treat this subject seriously.

Madam Speaker, coming back to the question, I can assure the hon. Member that we have done sufficient work to ensure that all districts are equipped with these automatic weather stations. If my memory serves me well, I think, we are almost at 85 per cent. I can give the hon. Member accurate information when we engage in the office. So, I invite him to come to our offices so that we can give him more information about this.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mabumba (Mwense): Madam Speaker, the weather pattern information that the hon. Minister is disseminating is very important in terms of the multiplier effect it has on economic performance. To what extent is the information, on the basis of the methods used to ascertain it, reliable and valid?

Mr Nzovu: Madam Speaker, hon. Members of Parliament will recall that in the past, we have come to the House to update them on what we are doing in this very important sector.

Madam Speaker, to start measuring, for example, climate conditions, meteorological data collection, storage and dissemination is key. If this economy is to be greened, if we are to ensure that there is environmental sustainability and water security, energy security as well as food security, we have to ensure that there is quality meteorological data and that the spatial distribution of the stations is enhanced. So, in the last two years, we have made deliberate efforts to ensure that the areas that did not have any meteorological services at all, automatic stations are installed. We have also made deliberate efforts to repair and maintain meteorological stations that have been in existence for a very long time. I can assure you that the meteorological stations we have right now are working very well.

Secondly, Madam Speaker, in my statement, I was very clear in saying that we work very closely with SADC and the WMO collecting and analysing the information. I also indicated that, now, we have the appropriate technology and equipment for data collection and analysis. You will recall further that in the last rainy season, we were able to track Tropical Storm Ana from Mozambique with very good reliability. When you analyse our forecast in the last two years, you will note that they have been, by and large, very reliable. So, I want to inform the nation, through this august House, that the quality of meteorological data we are disseminating now is very high. In the advent of climate change, this data must be relied on.

Madam Speaker, we are working closely with Hon. Mtolo, who is one of the biggest users of this information. Remember also that in the statement, I was very clear when I said that we have even trained extension officers not only in receiving the information, but also of disseminating it. So, I can assure this House that the days of this data or forecast being unreliable are gone. I encourage all hon. Members of Parliament to internalise this information and disseminate it through the various community radio stations and television stations.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, when the hon. Minister was giving information about the areas that will be provided with weather stations, I was wondering why he only mentioned provincial capitals, although I also heard Petauke. Areas like Chienge are flood-prone every rainy season. So, I do not know how the information will be given to the people whom we do not have the Department of Meteorology there. The hon. Minister talked about the use of community radio stations to disseminate information. In Chienge, we have commercial radio stations. So, I want to know how the information will be disseminated to the farmers in Chienge, especially given that the area is flood-prone

Mr Nzovu: Madam Speaker, let me thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Chienge for this very important question.

In my statement, I was very clear in saying that we will engage all radio and television stations. In fact, we will engage all commercial radio and television stations. I also encouraged hon. Members of Parliament to utilise the community radio stations.

Madam Speaker, what the hon. Member raises is also very important in that Chienge is, indeed, flood-prone. So, we are paying particular attention to all the areas where there will be flooding. So, stations like Chienge will be under our radar to ensure that with the expected flooding in areas that will receive normal to above-normal rainfall, early warning systems work and there is preparedness in terms of evacuation of our people and ensuring that the health of our people is protected.

Madam Speaker, we invite the hon. Member of Parliament for Chienge to visit our offices so that we provide the necessary package for the people of Chienge.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, the information given by the hon. Minister has worried the people of Solwezi East, Mushindamo District, in particular. This is, actually, an indirect request to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. You may wish to know that when it rains in the district, it takes ten days to cover a distance of 120 km on the Solwezi/Kipushi Road.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister talked about bridges and crossing points being washed away during the rainy season. Is collaborating with other ministries, such as the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, to ensure the construction of climate-resilient bridges and roads, which will be able to withstand the impact of the El Nino that he talked about. I want to know if at all there is any collaboration.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Solwezi East for this very important question.

Madam Speaker, as I stated earlier, we are collaborating very closely with the Ministry of Agriculture. However, I must inform my fellow hon. Member of Parliament that the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment cuts across all sectors and that we collaborate very closely with all sector ministries in particular, the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, to promote climate-smart infrastructure. Due to climate change, right now, the intensity and frequency, the intensity and frequency of droughts is increasing.

Madam Speaker, you may recall that just last year, the Southern Province experienced unprecedented flooding that led to infrastructure damage. Following that flooding and that much damage to infrastructure, we engaged the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development to look at the design codes and how, first of all, the built or existing infrastructure could be protected; how the higher floods, because of climate change, could be mitigated by redesigning the infrastructure and incorporating the new designs for flood control infrastructure.

Madam Speaker, we are also collaborating very closely with the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation because, as you can imagine, droughts bring water shortages. Obviously, issues of deforestation and land degradation lead to water insecurity, too. So, we work very closely. Indeed, we are also collaborating very closely with the Ministry of Energy. As you are aware, energy in Zambia is mainly hydropower based. So, water insecurity leads to energy insecurity.

Madam Speaker, the people of Solwezi must not be worried because the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development is one of the users of meteorological data and we are working very closely with it. Further, in the flood-prone areas, we are encouraging hon. Members of Parliament and the public to heed our warnings, especially when we issue flood alerts. We have lost lives before because even when we issue flood alerts, our people tend to cross streams. Sometimes, those streams are very dangerous. So, they must listen to us when we issue advisories to protect lives.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Speaker, the meteorological data given by the hon. Minister is key for planning purposes of people who are involved not only in small-scale farming, but also commercial farmers.

Madam Speaker, early last week, we saw a screaming headline on the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) to the effect that the police had uncovered a scam in which fake fertiliser was being sold cheaply on the market. The information will be used by small-scale farmers for purposes of preparation and food security. I can speak for my province and my district, Kawambwa, where, as early as last week, we had rainfall on three consecutive days. However, farmers have not received the required inputs and materials for them to start preparing for a possible harvest. Has the data that the hon. Minister has well elaborated on expected rainfall pattern been shared with the hon. Minister responsible for agriculture so that the small-scale farmers can use it prudently rather than giving information that does not correlate with what is obtaining on the ground? We may experience a similar problem as last year.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

You are now debating.

Mr Chitotela: I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, let me thank the hon. Member for Pambashe sincerely. Obviously, I know that he is making some insinuations and deliberately sneaking in accusations. However, I want to tell him that this United Party for National Development (UPND) Government is very methodical; it is one that is actively fighting corruption, violence and all forms of vices. It is operating very methodically. So, I can confirm to the hon. Member that as a Member of the Cabinet, we have supported the Ministry of Agriculture to ensure that fertiliser is distributed on time. I can confirm to him, even if I am not the Minister of Agriculture, because I am a member of the Cabinet, that most, if not all of the fertiliser, is with the farmers.

Hon. PF Members: Ah!

Eng. Nzovu: The farmers will receive fertiliser on time.

Madam Speaker, we may have one or two isolated incidents, and for this, I invite the Minister of Agriculture to, one of these days, make a statement. I do not know the situation in the area where the hon. Member for Pambashe comes from. Where I am from, in Nangoma Constituency, by and large, the fertiliser has been received.

Interruptions

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members.

Eng. Nzovu: Further, I want to assure Hon. Chitotela that working with him,  the Ministry of Agriculture and us, will ensure food security, and we need to support the various efforts being made, including the increasing of the price of maize to K280. We must support farmers, particularly with this information now, and disseminate it in Pambashe so that there is food security. The people in Pambashe would like to hear what the able Minister of Green Economy and Environment has stated today.

Madam Speaker, lastly, I want to assure the Member of Parliament for Pambashe that, indeed, we will disseminate this information through various media organisations in the country, and we call upon him to do the same.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Madam Speaker, does the hon. Minister have any plans of coming up with a programme of reforestation, especially in areas like the Southern Province where we are more affected by climate change?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, let me thank my Bweengwa counterpart for this very important question. He is talking about afforestation simply because it is trees that give us rainfall. In areas where there is high deforestation, we receive less and less rainfall. So, the encouragement to the hon. Member is that we need to do more reforestation. I assure him that this Government will put funding in the Budget as well, other than the funding we are asking for from our partners, to ensure that reforestation activities are increased. Further, we need to protect the standing trees because they protect the headwaters of various rivers, and that there is water security. So, I assure the hon. Member that we are doing everything possible to ensure that afforestation is done.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu): Madam Speaker, the information that the hon. Minister has provided this afternoon is a confirmation that climate change is real and that its impact on all facets of life can never be underestimated, unlike when some people used to think that climate change is a new phenomenon that just affected Zambia starting last year.

Mr Nkandu: Question!

Mr Kasandwe: Now, was the decision that the Ministry of Agriculture arrived at of giving direct input support to some farmers and putting some farmers on the Electronic Voucher Programme (e-Voucher) in some districts based on this information that the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment has given to the House? I am afraid that some areas that may have received fertiliser already, such as Nangoma, are not likely to receive adequate rainfall. That is my question, hon. Minister.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank my counterpart from Bangweulu for that very important question. I think, I will answer it in two parts.

I cannot agree more with him when he says issues of climate change must be localised and that climate has evolved in this country. There is unprecedented flooding and droughts. There is also food, water and energy insecurity now because of climate change. So, he is right. The awareness that we have climate change calls upon all of us to do something about it; to ensure that natural resources are utilised efficiently and that our environment is better protected. However, as regards the Electronic Voucher (e-Voucher) Programme and other issues in agriculture, I can only request the hon. Member to engage the hon. Minister of Agriculture, Mr Mtolo, for more detailed information.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Charles Mulenga (Kwacha): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for allowing me to ask a question to the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment on behalf of the people of Kwacha Constituency. I also want to thank the hon. Minister for the elaborate presentation of the ministerial statement.

Madam Speaker, I would like to find out why at times, there is a mismatch between the prediction of the weather patterns that the meteorological experts give and what actually happens. Could it be that the automated weather machines or equipment are not constantly monitored to ascertain whether they are working and that they are in good condition? Could there be any other reasons that the hon. Minister would like to share with us?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, let me thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Kwacha for this very important question. Maybe, let me inform him that issues of climate change monitoring, and analysis of geological data forecast is not an exact science because it depends on the quality of machines you have and the technical capacity of the people. So, to reduce that gap; the predictive capacity of the machines and of the people, we have to get quality equipment and invest in the technical capacity of the people, and that is exactly what we are doing. We need to ensure that there is quality data collection and dissemination. So, indeed, what this Government has done is to invest in equipment and technical capacity. So, I can assure the hon, Member of Parliament that going forward, we will be getting more and more quality forecasts and advisories on rainfall patterns.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister for Green Economy and Environment has detailed what the ministry is doing regarding climate change and preparation for weather forecast in the context of our current energy mix, he is aware that predominantly, we depend on hydropower. I would like to find out from him what his prediction is, in terms of the weather forecast, and how this sector will be impacted.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, let me sincerely thank the hon. Member for Kamfinsa, again, for this very important question. I want to inform this august House that Zambia’s energy is mainly hydropower-based, meaning that most of the energy is machine-generated. When we look at what I have detailed today, obviously, it calls for prudent utilisation of water resources. This is the reason we are investing in correct meteorological data capture, analysis and utilisation.

Madam Speaker, the House will recall that not long ago, the hon. Minister of Energy informed this House on the efforts the Government was making to ensure that the energy mix is improved, and to transition the energy sector to renewable energy. So, there is a lot of effort being made by the Government as well as the private sector, in particular, the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC), to ensure that solar energy comes on board. Basically, these efforts are to ensure that when we receive less rainfall and when our energy security is threatened, renewable energy comes on board. So, we are doing everything possible to ensure that the energy security is maintained.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Frist Deputy Speaker: We still have a minute.

Mr Ngowani (Mpongwe): Madam Speaker, weather forecast information is very critical to farmers’ planning, especially when it comes to planting. I just want to know if the ministry has any plans to engage commercial farmers in sharing weather forecast information with people in agriculture so that they can further disseminate the information to small-scale farmers. From experience, commercial farmers have accurate information in terms of when to plant crops.

Eng. Njovu: Madam Speaker, I want to confirm that if there are any strict users of meteorological information, it is the commercial farmers. Probably, this is the reason we see that the productivity of maize for commercial farmers is between 10 tonnes and 12 tonnes a hectare whereas for subsistence farmers, I do not know whether it is 1 tonne or 2 tonnes per hectare. All this is because commercial farmers utilise the climatic information more strictly. They plant at the right time, cultivate at the right time, plant the correct seed and apply fertiliser at the right time because there are issues of wilting and the like. So, if our local farmers are listening to me, I would like to encourage them to listen to community radio stations so that they can also start practising climate-smart agriculture. This will improve productivity and they will be able to move from 1 tonne or 2 tonnes tonnes a hectare to, probably, 5 tonnes a hectare.

Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment plans, as one of the ways to stop deforestation, to increase productivity in the agricultural sector because once productivity increases, we will need less land to cultivate for more produce. So, it is in our interest to ensure that productivity is increased. By the way, commercial farmers in Mkushi have the very good tendency to hold hands with small-scale farmers. They teach small-scale farmers conservation farming. Actually, they also have their own meteorological equipment, which is utilised by subsistence farmers in the area. So, I can confirm to the hon. Member that commercial farmers are playing their part.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr J. E. Banda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised by the hon. Member for Petauke Central. What is your point of order hon. Member?

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving the good people of Petauke Central an opportunity to raise a point of order.

Madam Speaker, the point of order is pursuant to Standing Order No. 207, on contempt of the House, on the Member for Kamfinsa, Hon. Christopher Kang’ombe.

Madam Speaker, we were arguing with Hon. Kang’ombe, but I know that it is contempt of the House because Standing Order No. 135 states that a matter shall be considered urgent and important if a death will occur. However, Standing Order No. 135 states that:

“A matter shall be considered urgent, –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

You, yourself are out of order yourself because you have not stated what rule has been breached.

Mr J. E. Banda rose.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

We have already passed the stage for raising matters of urgent public importance. In fact, you were also out of order because you are not supposed to debate while seated. I think, we were busy listening to questions and responses from the hon. Minister, but you were also busy debating matters of urgent public importance. You are out of order, and your point of order is not admissible.

STATE VISIT TO THE PEOPLE’S REPUBLIC OF CHINA BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF ZAMBIA, MR. HAKAINDE HICHILEMA

The Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation (Mr Kakubo): Madam Speaker, it is, indeed, a privilege and honour for me to take the Floor and address the House on the recent State visit by our Republican President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, to the People’s Republic of China, which took place from 10^th to 16^th September, 2023. This followed an invitation from President Xi Jinping to President Hakainde Hichilema.

Madam Speaker, the President was accompanied by the First Lady, Mrs Mutinta Hichilema, and a selected number of hon. Ministers. The programme of the State visit covered engagements in five cities, namely Shenzhen, Jiangshan, Ningde, Fuzhou and, of course, the capital city, Beijing.

Madam Speaker, the State visit was carefully organised and aimed at getting a glimpse of China’s unique development approach and exploring opportunities that would benefit Zambia. In this regard, the President held fruitful bilateral talks with his counterpart, President Xi Jinping; the Premier of the People’s Republic of China; the Chairman of the Standing Committee for the National People’s Congress; and the leaders of Shenzhen City, Fujian Province and Jiangxi Province. In addition, the Republican President held meetings with captains of industry during company engagements in the areas of mining, railway transport, information and communication technology (ICT), logistics and electric vehicles.

Madam Speaker, under the credible leadership of the President, Zambia has continued on the strong historical relations and all-weather friendship shared with the People’s Republic of China since the days of the Founding Fathers of the two countries, Dr. Kenneth Kaunda and Chairman Mao Zedong. The enduring and exceptional relations between the two nations have constantly been reaffirmed at a multitude of junctures across various levels in our engagements, including a high-level telephone conversation that occurred between President Hichilema and his counterpart, President Xi Jinping, in May 2022, as well as during the China-Africa High-Level Round Table Dialogue that was held on the margins of the Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa (BRICS) Summit in South Africa in September 2023. During those very important exchanges, the two leaders reiterated the robust bilateral ties between the two countries and expressed their intent to further upgrade the level of co-operation between the Republic of Zambia and the People’s Republic of China.

Madam Speaker, I must emphasise, at this point, that contrary to the claims that have been made in certain quarters, the Republic of Zambia and the People’s Republic of China relations have never ever grown cold. In President Xi Jinping’s publicly available affirmation last year, he says:

“China-Zambia relations have maintained a positive momentum of development, with two-way trade volume hitting a record high and Zambia becoming the country attracting the most Chinese direct investment in Africa.”

Madam Speaker, in fact, I am delighted to convey to this esteemed House the fact that hat during the State visit, President Xi Jinping and President Hichilema took significant steps towards elevating relations of the two countries to the level of the distinguished status of a comprehensive strategic and co-operative partnership. This has never been done before.

Mr Samakayi: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakubo: To us, this is a milestone that signifies the deepening of bilateral relations that are closely aligned with the respective national priorities of both the Republic of Zambia and the People’s Republic of China.

Madam Speaker, in this endeavour, we are not tearing down, but building upon the solid foundation that has already been laid by our Founding Fathers.

Madam Speaker, may I now highlight some of the key outcomes of this historic visit. I will speak slightly slowly for emphasis.

Revitalisation of the Tanzania-Zambia Railway Authority and Mulungushi Textiles

Madam Speaker, we want to confirm that China has committed to upgrading and renovating the Tanzania-Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA) to align it with market and commercial principles. A memorandum of understanding (MoU) guaranteeing the protection and management of this critical infrastructure was also signed during this State visit. Further, the People’s Republic of China pledged to encourage its established businesses to redevelop and invest in Mulungushi Textiles with modern and efficient technology that will not only facilitate value added export to markets like China itself, but also make the company a formable driver of job creation in our country.

Madam Speaker, the relevant authorities from, both, the People’s Republic of China and the Republic of Zambia will continue discussions on these two critical matters of economic importance to us.

Zambia’s Debt Restructuring

Madam Speaker, we all know the history of our debt and how, at some point in our recent history, there was recklessness in borrowing and expenditure.

Madam Speaker, as the House knows, completion of discussions on Zambia’s debt restructuring process is the foundation required for Zambia’s economic revival. In this regard, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and his Chinese counterpart had detailed discussions on the debt during the State visit.

That was as a result of the country attaining, under the stewardship of President Hichilema, the landmark agreement on debt restructuring under the Group of Twenty (G20) framework.

Investment

Madam Speaker, on this part, I will even be slower. Through proactive investment promotion activities during the State visit, investment has already started taking place in our economy.

Madam Speaker, the Chinese giant mining company, China Nonferrous Metal Company (CNMC) Ltd unveiled an ambitious plan to invest an additional US$1.3 billion in Zambia.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, for the avoidance of doubt in anyone who is listening, US$1.3 billion is a fresh direct cash injection into the Zambian economy, particularly in the mining sector. Of that investment, US$600 million will be used for the reopening of new shafts at Luanshya Copper Mine …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakubo: …while US$400 million is aimed at increasing production at Chambishi Copper Mine (CCM) which is operated by a China Non-ferous Metals Company (CNMC) Limited subsidiary to 110,000 tonnes per year. US$200 million is going to be used to support the operations and expansion of its subsidiary, Sino Metals. The company has also committed to investing in new warehousing facilities and establishing, on the social part, a major vocational school in Zambia.

Madam Speaker, I am not done. Further, US$1.45 billion has been indicated as money to be invested by other Chinese investors. US$800 million is for investment in a 1,200 MW Wind and Solar Plant. This is meant to manage the risk associated with hydropower, as explained in the earlier ministerial statement by the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment. US$290 is envisaged to be invested in car battery –

Hon. Government Members: Million!

Mr Kakubo: I will repeat that.

Madam Speaker, US$290 million is envisaged to be invested in car battery production. US$450 million is envisaged to be invested in solar generation in another plant with a capacity of 500 MW. Additionally, a commitment to invest US$7I5 million for the creation of an industrial park with facilities for the manufacturing of steel and production of solar energy, among others, was made.

Madam Speaker, the People’s Republic of China also pledged to support the Republic of Zambia’s development and upgrade our existing economic zones into industrial supply chain and co-operation zones.

Madam Speaker, we all know that agriculture is the main source of income and employment for over 70 per cent of our population living in rural areas. Therefore, efforts were made in this sector, and the Chinese Government has agreed to partner with the Zambian Government to construct dams in, at least, four provinces. This will lead to the country enhancing its irrigation capacity. Consequently, the two Governments have agreed to jointly invest in the mass production of crops not just for local use, but also for export to our region and to meet the demand in the People’s Republic of China.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, both Governments agreed to increase trade. Therefore, the People’s Republic of China has pledged to provide even more market access for Zambian products and facilitate the holding of trade events specifically for Zambia in the People’s Republic of China.

Madam Speaker, the two Heads of State also decided that the two countries will enhance co-operation in areas of culture, tourism, education, public health, media and sports. The House may also wish to note that an agreement was reached between the two Heads of State was reached for the commencement of direct flights between the Republic of Zambia and the People’s Republic of China, and this is important for our economy …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakubo: …at it will not only facilitate the attainment of the outcomes that I have mentioned already, but will also increase tourism. We expect to have more Chinese tourists in our country, and that will contribute to the positioning of Lusaka as a major connectivity hub for flights.

Madam Speaker, President Hichilema’s leadership credentials continue to be acknowledged. In this regard, President Xi Jinping congratulated his brother, President Hichilema, on being Chairperson of the Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA) and Chairperson for the Southern African Development Community (SADC) Organ on Defence, Politics and Security.

Madam Speaker, during the State visit, there were a number of strategic bilateral memoranda of understanding (MoUs) that were signed. The MoUs were designed to give structure and process to the issues that I have already highlighted, and include an MoU in infrastructure. The People’s Republic of China has decided that as early as December, this year, the process to set up a manufacturing plant for prefabricated housing will start, and specialised technology will start coming into the country. The MoUs also include an agreement on digital economy, tourism and mining, just to mention a few.

Madam Speaker, during the State visit, the President visited a poverty reduction village, which can be compared to the New Dawn Government’s enhanced Constituency Development Fund (CDF) programme for rural transformation. Inspiration was drawn by the Government to transform our villages into towns and cities that have access to all the necessary amenities.

Madam Speaker, bilateral relations between the Republic of Zambia and the People’s Republic of China have undoubtedly traversed a significant journey. Further, in 2024, the Republic of Zambia and the People’s Republic of China are set to jointly celebrate the 60^th anniversary of the establishment of diplomatic ties between the two countries. In this vein, during the State visit, the Heads of State engaged in a substantive discussion and signed a pivotal agreement, collectively designating the forthcoming year, 2024, as a dual commemoration, and a year for business, cultural and tourism co-operation. This will undoubtedly strengthen the already deep-rooted friendship between the two countries.

Madam Speaker, contrary to the information that was peddled on social media, I want to state that President Hichilema’s State visit was a result of meticulous planning for several months …

Laughter

Mr Kakubo: … between the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Zambia and our counterpart ministry in China.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakubo: The depth of collaboration has been vividly highlighted in the quality of the visit that we undertook just a few weeks ago. We knew the entire programme, including the date of the State visit, several months ago, but both Governments agreed to keep the date classified.

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

Laughter

Mr Kakubo: This programme, Madam Speaker, was carefully curated with the strategic objective of aligning Zambia’s core interests in China, and China’s core interests in Zambia. It was also to ensure alignment, collaboration, and a process flow and legal framework around the matters that would most benefit our country. It was the primary aim of the State visit to deliver tangible benefits, as opposed to what used to happen before, when it was possible for certain people to travel with musicians, book boats and have a social life on the sidelines of business.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mundubile interjected.

Mr Amutike: Party after party!

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, President Hichilema’s historic journey effectively redefined Zambia’s long-standing relationship with China, as it reaffirmed what we already know as the deep-seated political commitment of President Xi Jinping towards this Administration. Of course, it also underscores the unwavering dedication to nurturing co-operation between our two countries.

Madam Speaker, I just want to end by saying once again, that Mr Hakainde Hichilema, the President of Zambia, has definitely delivered practical results from this State visit.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, you are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement delivered by the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation.

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Thank you, Madam Speaker. Well done to the hon. Minister. This is what we were pushing for. We wanted the President to go to China because that country delivers.

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

Mr Mundubile: Ten trips to America resulted in one memorandum of understanding (MoU) on batteries, …

Mr Nkandu: Question!

Mr Mundubile: … but two hours with President Jinping, you have seen what the Government has come back with.

Mr Mweetwa interjected.

Mr Mundubile: No, two hours have delivered. Two hours with President Jinping, and there has been a lot of progress.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Leader of the Opposition!

What is your question?

Mr Katakwe: No question. Just say thank you.

Mr Mundubile: I am sure, after interacting with the Chinese Government, the Government realises, …

Mr Mweetwa interjected.

Mr Fube: Ikala fye!

Mr Mundubile: … that when it is considering loans –

Madam Speaker, borrowing or debt contraction is two-way traffic; there is a lender and a borrower. In this case, there has been talk about careless borrowing, meaning that on the other side, there has been careless lending. The interaction the Government had with the Chinese should have exposed it to how careful and stringent the Chinese are when it comes to evaluating loans. We want the hon. Minister to tell the House if it is still the Government’s position that the Chinese lent Zambia money carelessly. Is that the position of your Government?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Before the hon. Minister comes in, a point of order is raised.

Hon. Minister of Information and Media, what is your point of order?

Mr Mweetwa: Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity. I rise on a serious point of order.

Yesterday, you made a ruling to the effect that as we debate the National Budget, there should be full attendance on both the right and the left.

Mr Mutale: Look behind there (pointing to the right).

Mr Mweetwa: As you can see, Madam Speaker, –

Laughter

Hon. PF Members: Look behind you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Let him finish his point of order.

Mr Fube: Look behind you.

Mr Munsanje: We are here!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Let us not assist him to raise the point of order.

Hon. Minister, you may continue.

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, I understand the behaviour of my hon. Colleagues. It is because out there, the President has stomped out cadreism. So, it has been exported to this House.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Katuta: Question!

Mr Kampyongo interjected.

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, my substantive, …

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

Just cite the Standing Order that has been breached and go straight to the matter you are trying to raise. Can you be precise.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, I have said that you made a ruling yesterday. It is precedence, for those who may not know.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr Mweetwa: You made a ruling yesterday but, you can see, most of the Benches for hon. Patriotic Front (PF) Members are empty.

Mr Mutale interjected.

Mr Mweetwa:  Look at their third row. It is completely empty. There is no one.

Mr Fube interjected.

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, …

Rev. Katuta: Look behind you.

Mr Mweetwa: … in this House, where we have been for quite some time, in the two years of the PF being in the Opposition, the quorum has collapsed more times than it has in the last ten years because hon. PF Members just come here to report to get paid and leave.

Rev. Katuta: Question!

Mr Mweetwa: Are they in order to continue on this trajectory of ‘fraudulence,’ …

Laughter

Mr Mweetwa: … at the expense of taxpayers? They come here, log in and walk out, yet the taxpayers pay them to come and debate.

Mr Kampyongo interjected.

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, –

Mr Kampyongo rose.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

I am going to attend to the point of order.

Hon. Minister, it is true that yesterday, I made a ruling. In fact, I did not even say that it was intended for this side or that side. I made a general ruling asking hon. Members on the left and the right to be serious and participate in the proceedings of the House. For the sake of that point of order, again, since we are seeing that some hon. Members on both the right and the left that are not in attendance, hon. Whips, can you, please, do your jobs. This is a very important meeting, in which we are supposed to look at the Budget, we want full participation, where possible. However, I am told, again, that there are some Committees that are sitting but, maybe, the Clerk will attend to this issue so that hon. Members can be in the Assembly Chamber to participate in the proceedings.

Mr Fube interjected.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: No, the quorum has not collapsed, but we are asking for full participation;for representation of the people. Let us improve on participation in the House.

We can make progress.

Hon. Minister, you may proceed.

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Leader of the Opposition for the preamble to his question because it provides an opportunity for us to be clear on the President’s travels. I will share the statistics with the House.

Sixty per cent of the travels the President has made have been within the African Continent, and this is a fact; 4 per cent to the Middle East and 6.7 per cent to the Americas. I want, again, to emphasise this point that the President has not yet made his State visit to the USA. When you carefully check the travels to the United States of America(USA) –

Rev. Katuta interjected.

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, just for emphasis, there was carelessness in the application of the money that was borrowed because there are no assets to show for it.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I am rising on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65(b), which provides that the information that is provided here must be factual and verifiable.

Hon. Mweetwa interjected.

Mr Kampyongo: I want to assure my hon. Colleague, the newly-promoted hon. Minister, that we are not going to be agitated into walking out. We are here to work, and we know his tactic.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister who is on the Floor, who has given only one statement after the President undertook more than forty trips abroad, is insinuating that the money that was borrowed has not gone into public assets when even when he landed from where he went, he landed at an airport built by the same Chinese we were advising our colleagues to go and see.

Hon. UPND Members interjected.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, the whole nation knows. What took the President and his delegation to China are the projects they see already completed through Chinese support.

Hon. UPND Members interjected.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, is he in order to shamelessly stand there and pretend –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Shiwang’andu!

The way you have used the word “shamelessly” is unparliamentary. May you, please, withdraw it and replace it with another better word.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I thought that the words “careless” and “shamelessly” were more or less the same, but I will replace it.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to stand there with a straight face and give falsehoods, knowing that the Chinese he went see are the ones who built the same infrastructure he is pretending not to have seen? He is being hypocritical. Our colleagues went to China because they are able to see what the Chinese are able to do.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is your point of order?

Mr Kampyongo: Is he in order to continue misleading this august House and the entire nation by saying that the money that was borrowed was used carelessly, …

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: … and insult the Chinese who were building this institution –

Hon. UPND Members: No!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Shiwang’andu!

Please, resume your seat.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Can we, please, be mindful of some of the things that we bring out on this Floor.

Can you, please, wind up. You are now debating.

Mrs Masebo: On a point of procedure, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order? He said that the Chinese released money that did not go anywhere.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Can you wind up, hon. Member. Otherwise, that is a debate, and you cannot continue because you are now debating. It is no longer a point of order. I will not allow that, hon. Member.

Mr Kampyongo: In conclusion of the point of order, is the hon. Minister in order to mislead this august House and the nation by saying that the money which came from China has gone in thin air, and that there are no public assets that were built, including what he referred to as the sausage airport?

I seek your serious guidance, Madam Speaker.

Mrs Masebo: On a point of procedure, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, resume your seat.

Hon. Member, your point of order is not admissible simply because it turned out to be a debate. A requirement for a point of order is that you have to be precise; to the point, but you were debating.

Hon. Members, I think, this is a very important ministerial statement. The people have been waiting to hear the outcome of the visit. So, let us use this opportunity to inform our people in our respective constituencies. Let us not make this something to play around with or to fight one another. Let us, please, think of our people in the constituencies want to know what came out of the visit to China.

With that guidance, we make progress.

Mrs Masebo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker. This is a serious point of order.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, for the sake of progress, I will come back to you later because a point of order has just been raised and cleared. In due course, I am going to call upon you so that we try to make progress.

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for his ministerial statement, which has highlighted very strongly the emerging friendship between the Government of the Republic of Zambia and that of the People’s Republic of China.

Madam Speaker, given what the hon. Minister observed, in terms of this emerging friendship, does he see any other country, whether in America, in Europe or Asia, which will match this level of friendship?

Mrs Masebo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, earlier, I was trying to raise a point of procedure then, of course, I asked for a point of order. I do not know if I may be allowed on a point of procedure first.

Madam Speaker, we, as the Frontbench, are concerned as well, …

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mrs Masebo: … that when an hon. Member asks an hon. Minister a question and the hon. Minister is on the Floor answering, there is a propensity for points of order to be raised by the people who have asked the question. That disturbs us and we fail to answer properly.

Secondly, Madam Speaker, –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mrs Masebo: The point of order I was about to raise is: Was it …

Mr Fube made a roaring sound.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mrs Masebo: … in order for an hon. Member of Parliament to …

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mrs Masebo: … make a false statement on the Floor of this House to the effect that this Government insulted the Chinese?

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Chilubi!

We want order in this House. Can you, please, be orderly. The people, including those in your constituency, are watching you. Let us respect our people.

Hon. Minister of Health, in my ruling, I did not admit the point of order because the rule is that when somebody is not in agreement with what the hon. Minister has brought out on the Floor of the House, that person is supposed to bring evidence and lay it on the Table. Otherwise, I cannot admit that point of order. So, his point of order was not accepted.

May the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation continue.

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, this Government regrets, first of all, the insinuations by hon. Members of the Opposition. Considering our historic relations with China, some of the utterances that we have heard this afternoon are extremely regrettable and disrespectful.

Madam Speaker, our position has been very clear even in the statement. This Government lives by the foundation and principles that were espoused by His Excellency Dr Kaunda and Chairman Mao Zedong. Further, this Government fully supports, for emphasis, the One China Policy. So, we will continue to work with the People’s Republic of China, and we do not wish to be taken off our rails by the political sentiments that we have heard this afternoon from our colleagues on the left, which are extremely regrettable.

Madam Speaker, we have made it very clear that, as the Government, we wish to collaborate with all well-intending countries in the world. This also means that when we visit the People’s Republic of China, we are not, in any way, sending the wrong message to any capital in the world. We have strong bilateral relationships with the People’s Republic of China, the USA and South Africa. It does not mean that when we are in Pretoria or Johannesburg, we are at loggerheads with Nigeria. What kind of a foreign policy is being espoused by the Opposition, whereby they want to pit their Government and country against another nation. That is a flawed foreign policy.

Interruptions

Mr Kafwaya rose.

Hon. Government Members: Sit down!

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, that is why –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Mr Kafwaya interjected.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

You cannot start uttering those words.

Mr Kafwaya interjected.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: No, hon. Member.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Hon. Member for Lunte, please, leave the House because the words that you used are not acceptable, yet you kept repeating them.

Hon. Government Members: Out!

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Hon. Member for Lunte, the words that you used are unacceptable in this House. You cannot say that what is being said is nonsense. There are better words.

Mr Kafwaya resisted leaving the Assembly Chamber.

Hon. Government Members: Go!

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Sergeant-At-Arms, please, we want to make progress.

Interruptions

Mr Kafwaya walked to the right side of the Assembly Chamber.

Hon. Government Members: Out!

Mr Kafwaya left the Assembly Chamber.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Can we make progress.

Hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation, did you conclude your response?

Can you, please, conclude your response.

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, I was just emphasising the point that the foreign policy that has been espoused here by those on the left is completely flawed. It is unbelievable and totally unacceptable that our colleagues are pitting our national sovereignty against another country’s. Our position is crystal clear.

Mr E. Tembo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, we will continue to collaborate with our key strategic partners and allies, and that includes the People’s Republic of China.

Mr E. Tembo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, our position on the Chinese Government and Zambia’s relationship with it is exactly the way we put it in our statement. The words of Patriotic Front (PF) hon. Members must be completely attributed solely to them. We know their position and we have taken note.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon Minister!

Hon. Member for Feira, you know the instructions on raising a point of order. You do not have to shout. I heard you the first time you indicated. However, it is not automatic that immediately you shout “point of order”, then I give you the opportunity to speak. It does not work like that. You are not the only one listening to the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation; there are many people listening to him. Please, let us have order in the House.

Hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation, please, wind up your response. We have a long list here.

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, our Government will continue to collaborate with the Chinese Government. That is why the State visit was a resounding success and all the attributes that I have mentioned in the ministerial statement; the funding into our country, stronger ties and enhanced relationships based on mutual respect and collaboration, not what we have seen on your left.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr E. Tembo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised by the hon. Member for Feira.

Mr E. Tembo: Madam Speaker, I rarely rise on points of order, but I have been compelled to do so by a serious breach of Standing Order No. 65.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister was asked a specific question, and we are getting clarifications on the Government policy. However, he indicated that the Patriotic Front (PF) has a foreign policy, which he was explaining that we are trying to espouse. He should have used that opportunity to state what the Government policy is. Hon. Ministers are here to respond to our questions.

Hon. Government Member: Question!

Mr E. Tembo: Is he, therefore, in order to have responded in that manner?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, the ministerial statement on the Floor is still on-going. Why can you not indicate to raise a question? Ask the hon. Minister a question.

Mr E. Tembo: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity and, indeed, I would have asked the hon. Minister a question.

Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the ministerial statement because we were getting worried with the conduct of the Government.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members on my right!

Mr E. Tembo: Madam Speaker, there was perceived allegiance to the West even from the statements, and we were worried. However, we are happy that the Government has reaffirmed its longstanding relationship with China.

The hon. Minister undertook a trip to the Middle East, and there was a pledge of investment of US$7 billion in energy. He also undertook a trip to the United States of America (USA), where a memorandum of understanding (MoU) on car batteries was signed. Further, it has been disclosed that there are agreements relating to investments from China. My question is: From the two trips and the recent one, which one would the hon. Minister say is more promising for the Government?

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, in summary, our Government’s foreign policy is basically two-fold. First of all, it is based on promoting peace, stability and security. Secondly, it pursues  economic diplomacy. So, to answer my hon. Colleague, we are ready to do business as Zambia and Zambia is open for business. I, again, want to emphasise that it is becoming clearer every day that the agenda of our hon. Colleagues in the PF and their foreign policy is to pit this country against other countries. We shall not participate in that, and our foreign policy is clear. We are going to forge ahead.

Madam Speaker, as a bonus answer to the House, I just want to mention that following the State visit, for the first time, the Chinese Government hosted a reception here, in Lusaka, to celebrate the success of the State visit, our long-standing historic relationship as well as where we are going, not where the PF is trying to take us.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

I do not know whether we should continue with this segment. I think, it has brought out a lot of commotion, and we have a lot of business on our Order Paper.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

GENETICALLY MODIFIED SEEDS PLANTED IN ZAMBIA

72. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Agriculture:

1. whether there are any genetically modified (GM) seeds that are planted in Zambia;

1. if so, which seeds are planted;

1. what the negative effects of GM seeds are; and

1. what measures are being taken to prevent the use of GMs in the country.

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Mtolo): Madam Speaker, Zambia does not plant genetically modified (GM) seeds. All locally developed seed varieties are non-GMO.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Can we, please, lower our voices so that we get the response from the hon. Minister of Agriculture clearly.

You may proceed, hon. Minister.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I am thankful to Hon. Mundubile.

Mr Mundubile laughed.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I was saying that Zambia does not plant GM seeds. In addition, all locally developed seed varieties are non-GM. In addition, all imported seeds for agricultural purposes are subjected to laboratory tests before they are to be used. This is in a bid to safeguard the seed sub-sector from GMs. This is in accordance with the Plant Variety and Seed Act, Cap. 236.

Madam Speaker, as stipulated in the Plant Variety and Seed Act, Cap. 236, only non-GM seeds are planted.

Madam Speaker, the negative effects of GM seeds largely remain unknown, since research is on-going nationally and internationally. However, there is the possibility of contamination of non-GM crops through cross-pollination if the fields are in close proximity. This, ultimately, compromises the germination of non-GM seeds.

Madam Speaker, Zambia has in place the Biosafety Act No.10 of 2007. The purpose of the Act is to regulate the release, importation, exportation and use of living modified organisms in order to protect human, plant and animal health, including the environment and biological diversity. The Act provides for the establishment of the National Biosafety Authority (NBA) and for its composition and functions. The NBA is a Government agency, regulates the use and development of GMOs in Zambia to maximise the benefits of modern biotechnology for end users, producers, consumers and the general public.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, how effective are we, as a country, in tracking all imported commodities and finding out whether all imported commodities are non-GMs?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. Miyutu for this question.I would like to assure the country that the formation of the NBA, the institute that is responsible for tracking GM crops in Zambia, has made Zambia very effective at tracing and tracking down GM seeds. We are safe because of that institution.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, I would like to know from the hon. Minister whether the Government also monitors the smuggling in of seedlings which are genetically modified (GM), especially in the horticulture sub-sector.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, the answer is yes. It is, however, important to note that just like in ordinary trade, there is smuggling in agricultural trade. There can be some smuggling, but when the seedlings are going through borders, the country has the technology to very quickly detect whether the seedlings are GM or non-GM. We have all sorts of testing facilities that will rapidly indicate whether seedlings have GMO compositions in them.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Agriculture has stated that genetically modified (GMs) can also be transmitted through cross-pollination. Now, looking at our borders, and the hon. Minister comes from a town in the Eastern Province close to a border, we know that we have villages that sit on the border of countries. You will find that the kitchen is in Malawi while the main house is in Zambia, and people interact like that. In this regard, how effective is that organisation that the hon. Minister said monitors GMs in the country? Is it also available in such border areas to effectively monitor the cropping system to make sure that GMs are avoided?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, indeed, the responsible agency does monitor. I indicated that you can have cross-pollination. You cannot totally isolate that threat. However, we have an institution that has been created specifically to monitor such traces. Zambia, of course, is at risk because a number of our bordering countries have accepted GM varieties in their borders. Therefore, as much as Zambia is trying very hard to protect itself, where there is wind transmission of pollen and other possible communicable facilities for GM, it is impossible for one to stand and say that we can stop the wind. There is a possibility but, if traced, then, that type of crop could be eliminated.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, many countries, such as India, are interested in coming to buy maize from Zambia. Is this an indication that, indeed, in Zambia, we have non-genetically modified (GM), maize which has a premier price on the world market?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, could the hon. Member repeat the question. I am sorry.

Mr Mabeta: Zambia’s maize has attracted many countries, including India. Is that an indication that our maize is of high quality, it being non-GM?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member might wish to note that in the agricultural sector, non-GM crops do hold a premium over GM crops. So, yes, the demand for our crop is because Zambia is renowned for being a GMO-free country.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

REHABILITATION OF BRIDGES ON THE CHINZULE/MUZIMA ROAD

73. Mr Lungu (Kapoche) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

1. whether the Government has any plans to rehabilitate the four bridges on the Chinzule/Muzime Road in Kapoche Parliamentary Constituency;

1. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

1. if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo) (on behalf of the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo)): Madam Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to rehabilitate the four bridges on the Chinzule/Muzime Road, as the contract is among the recently terminated feeder road contracts.

The plans will be implemented once funds are available. Plans are there, but their implementation is impeded by financial constraints.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lungu: Madam Speaker, the Chinzule/Mutandaza Road is used by almost four wards that re near Katete. You may wish to note that last year, one of the bridges was washed away. Without assistance from the ministry local government, about K600,000 was raised and used to construct the bridge. These bridges are in bad shape, and there are only have two months before the onset of the rainy season. To ensure that the people of Kapoche do not experience the same problems as they did last year, what immediate plans and assurances does the Government have concerning the bridge?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, maybe, let me just give some additional information that might be of help to the hon. Member. Firstly, prior to termination of the contract, the contractor was Midlands Systems. The contract was given at the sum of K43,362,671.00 for 30 km. The work that was done was clearing and grubbing. Out of the 30 km, 19 km of earthworks were done. The materials that are on site are forty-one pieces of 900 mm culvert pipes and eighty-eight pieces of 600 mm culvert pipes.

Following termination of the contract, Sinda Council has constructed one crossing point out of the four points. Currently, the council is assessing the cost of the remaining three crossing points. The Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development will be able to provide the council with some support on the remaining three crossing points. I will ask the hon. Member of Parliament to be in touch with the substantive hon. Minister.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Kapoche, did you indicate again? Are you are satisfied?

Mr Lungu: I am satisfied, Madam Speaker.

TONNES OF COPPER PRODUCED BY KONKOLA COPPER MINES BETWEEN JUNE 2019 AND DECEMBER 2022

74. Mr Kolala (Lufubu) asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

1. how many tonnes of copper Konkola Copper Mines Plc produced from June, 2019 to December, 2022, year by year;

1. how much profit the company generated from the sale of the copper in the period above, year by year;
2. how the profit was utilised; and

1. what the benefits of private ownership of mines are.

Mr Chinkuli: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development, before you come in, there is an indication for a point of order.

Is it a serious point of order, hon. Member?

Mr Chinkuli: It is very serious, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chinkuli: Madam Speaker, I think, you will agree with me that I have never risen on a point of order before now. However, it is something that I have been looking forward to doing for some time now.

I have just realised that the decorum of the House has bwwn jeopardised.

Madam Speaker, the fact that –

Mr Shakafuswa: Which Standing Order?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Hon. Member for Mandevu and the other hon. Members, please, do not assist the hon. Member in raising his point of order. Let him raise his point of order by himself.

Hon. Member, you may continue.

Mr Chinkuli: Thank you so much, Madam Speaker.

The point of order is raised under Standing Order No. 44.

Rev. Katuta: Standing Order No. 34?

Mr Chinkuli: No, Standing Order No. 44. A four and another four. Thank you.

Laughter

Mr Chinkuli: Madam Speaker, just like what is happening, there are rules that govern this Assembly, and those rules need to be followed to the letter.

Madam Speaker, of late, what has been happening is that the Presiding Officers have been trying to regulate debates, but we, as hon. Members, have been antagonising them to the point where we even start pointing fingers at them, which should not be the case.

Madam Speaker, my point of order is on the Leader of the Opposition. Looking at what has happened here –

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chinkuli: Madam Speaker, one of the duties of the Leader of the Opposition is to ensure that she helps the Presiding Officer to maintain –

Rev. Katuta: It is a he, not “she”.

Mr Chinkuli: She or he –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Chienge!

I think, I just guided. Let us leave the hon. Member to raise his point of order without your helping him. You are not supposed to debate while seated.

Can we give him chance to wind up his point of order.

Mr Chinkuli: Thank you, Madam Speaker. It could be a he or a she because anyone is capable of being Leader of the Opposition.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Lunte was given some instructions by the Presiding Officer, and the Leader of the Opposition was just seated there instead of helping the Presiding Officer to maintain discipline regarding one of his hon. Members.

Interruptions

Mr Chinkuli: Madam Speaker, looking at what has happened in the House today, was the Leader of the Opposition in order to sit quietly?

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you so much. I reserve my ruling. I will come back at a later date with an informed ruling.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Kabuswe): Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I had not answered Question No. 74, which was asked by Hon. Kolala. By prior arrangement, the question was asked by the hon. Member for Kankoyo.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development can respond to Question No. 74.

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) Plc produced the following tonnes of copper from June 2019 to December 2022.

         Year                                                                 Tonnes

 

         2019                                                                90,049

 

         2020                                                                54,182

 

         2021                                                                55,905

 

         2022                                                                45,751

Mr Speaker, the company did not post any profits during the period under review. Since the provisional liquidator took over the operations of KCM, the company has not been able to generate sufficient sales and cashflow to make profits.

Mr Speaker, the benefits of private ownership of mines include ones set out below.

Increased Investment and Innovation

The private sector can mobilise capital from international markets, and is is not subject to sovereign risk ratings. Further, private mining companies have a strong incentive to invest in new technologies and methods for extracting minerals more efficiently and sustainably.

Greater Efficiency

Private companies are typically more efficient, as they are subject to market forces and have a profit motive to minimise costs and maximise output.

Greater Flexibility

Private companies respond quickly to changes in market conditions and make decisions that are in the best interests of their shareholders.

Transparency and Accountability:

Private ownership is subjected to greater scrutiny by regulators and the public and, therefore, exhibits higher levels of transparency and accountability.

Increased Tax Revenue

Private mines generate more tax revenue for the Government.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, the response from the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development relates to the period from 2019 to a certain period, which is quite short. I am sure that the ministry has adequate data for the period prior to 2019. Is the hon. Minister able to inform this august House, today or on any other day, if at all the mine was profitable prior to 2019?

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, I will be very glad to come back and give information on events before 2019 if at all a question is asked.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, I want to know if there was any audit done between 2019 and 2022. Would the hon. Minister be in a position to indicate that to this House?

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for this question.

Again, if a question is asked as to whether audits were conducted, we can get back to the mine and find out. I do not have that information as at now. So, if that question needs to be answered on the Floor, it can be asked, and we can come with an answer.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Mr Speaker, when the Patriotic Front (PF) decided to hijack the mine in question, it claimed that it was because Vedanta Resources Limited was failing to pay taxes and the contractors. However, when we look at the period when the PF was running the mine, production dropped from 90 tonnes to 54 tonnes, 55 tonnes and 45 tonnes in 2019. What was the real purpose of taking over the mine by the PF Government?

Hon UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for the supplementary question.

Madam Speaker, when we look at the production figures for when the provisional liquidator had taken took over, they show that the mine got worse. So, this is an indication that whatever decision was made was wrong. I suppose, there were better ways of resolving the issues that were at KCM, and this Government has come to do just that.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sampa rose.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sampa (Matero): Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity.

Mr Speaker, I want to ask this question to the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development knowing that he is very capable and that he is a brother who was once with the party that I belong to.

Laughter

Mr Sampa: Mr Speaker,–

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Just ask your question.

Mr Sampa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that in the last three years, Konkola Copper Mines Plc (KCM) has been making losses under liquidation and that it could therefore, not continue on that path. He said that something had to be done, which was to bring in investors. Did the Government not have a choice other than to give the mine back to Vedanta Resources Limited? Could it not have given the mine to any other person, bearing in mind the legal challenges of the transaction?

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Matero for this question.

Like I have always said, Mr Speaker, when we took over power, we found a mining sector that was in confusion. Part of the confusion that we found was mining companies being in court. So, we decided to look at the matters case by case. Of course, we started with Kansanshi Mine, which was in court with the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines Investment Holdings (ZCCM-IH). We also looked at KCM. So, as a Government that is made up of people who are methodical and intelligent, …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabuswe: … we had to look at the pros and cons of continuing in court, which was going to take ages, and coming out of court to discuss and redefine the engagements with the existing investor.

It was not possible for any other investor to come and put money in an asset that was encumbered with legal battles. Any investor worth his salt would not invest in a mine that was fighting in court with its owners. As such, we had to sit down with Vedanta Resources Limited and redefine the terms of our engagements. We brought Vedanta Resources Limited to the table and stated our rules. It was a give and take situation. We told Vedanta Resources Limited that it had to invest in the mine, and pay its suppliers, behave itself and obey the law. We told the company to abide by the policies of the New Dawn Government. That was agreed, and that is how we ended up with it. As a bonus, we made sure that in the implementation and shareholders agreement, there were conditionalities that will lead to what is called a deemed offer in case the investor misbehaves. So, we are on firm ground and watching the space. There is no special treatment for Vedanta Resources Limited or any other investor for that matter. Now, because of the engagement that we had, we have confidence that KCM will be turned around.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity, on behalf of the good people of Petauke Central, to ask a supplementary question on this very important topic to do with what drives our economy.

Mr Speaker, I would like to know how much was owed to the suppliers and contractors when the liquidator took over. Could the hon. Minister tell this House and the nation how much was owed to the suppliers and contractors.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Minister may not have those answers off the cuff. For more clarification, you can engage him later.

Interruptions

Mr B. Mpundu: Takwaba ifyo!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

It is a different question altogether.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sialubalo (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, we have heard the figures the hon. Minister has mentioned, starting from 2019 to 2022. Is the hon. Minister able to tell the House the production capacity of Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) in the event that it is properly run?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for this very important question.

Mr Speaker, KCM is a very good asset. Given conditions in which it can operate at full capacity, I think, it can produce as much as 300,000 metric tonnes a year. That is the target that we have given Vedanta Resources Limited.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Let us make progress.

Mr Kalobo (Wusakile): I thank you, Mr Speaker. Under protest, Question No. 75.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, what did you say? I did not hear you.

Mr Kalobo: Mr Speaker, I said, “under protest” because your officers have changed the question. It has been phrased differently but, in that confused state of theirs, we are ready to proceed.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, as a senior Member, you know the procedure. Should we proceed?

Mr Kalobo indicated assent.

FATALITIES RECORDED AT THE BLACK MOUNTAIN

75. Mr Kalobo asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

(a)     how many injuries and fatalities were recorded at the Black Mountain in Kitwe District during the period February 2022 to February 2023;

(b)     whether there was any compensation paid to the victims; and

1. if no compensation was paid, why.

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, I will also answer under protest.

Laughter

Mr Kabuswe: I do not know whether to refer to the person who asked the question or not because it is confusing.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development, through the Mines Safety Department, did not record or investigate any injuries or fatalities of licensed operators at the Black Mountain during the period under review.

Mr Speaker, in view of what I have said, no compensation was paid, as there were no victims.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kalobo: Mr Speaker, my question was: “How many fatalities and injuries were recorded at the Black Mountain”. It was not specific to licensed operators. So, I asked this question because I have evidence to the effect that there was an on-site shooting incident and some people were dead even when they were taken directly to the central hospital. My question does not relate to the licensed operators. Generally, how many people were injured? Further, did this Government compensate them?

Mr Speaker, the person who was operating at the Black Mountain was expected to get a transportation impact brief that should have spelt out the risks of injuries or calamities that may occur. Further, the brief should have informed people on whether or not they are safeguarded through the Mines Safety Department. So, that is my question, and I expect an answer from the hon. Minister.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you should have taken the responsibility of reporting that to the police.

Hon. Minister, you may respond.

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, let me say that in mining operations, there are accidents that happen amongst people who are licensed and working in mining areas. However, there are also accidents that happen because, maybe, people trespass. I do not want to call them a name that I do not like. Let me just say people who go there uninvited. So, in terms of the operations and the operators, there was no fatality recorded at the Black Mountain. Now, in terms of what we may call third-party fatalities; people who may have gone there uninvited or who may have trespassed, seven died. The Mine Safety Department provided support to the Zambia Police Service during the investigations.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development has just confirmed that there were seven fatalities at the Black Mountain. As a ministry, what lessons is it drawing from that incident, considering that we have dumpsites in other parts of the country where there will be overwhelming demand for our young people to participate in that very important economic activity? How will the ministry drawn from that incident to prevent future fatalities, now that he has confirmed that we lost seven lives?

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, I want to emphasise that the country is listening. In terms of the operation, we did not lose any life.

Mr Speaker, a mining site has rules of how people can work or even engage. Now, when one goes to a site uninvited, it may happen that, the truck operator may not see that human being and an accident may occur.

Mr Speaker, we had situations in which young men climbed on top of trucks as the trucks were moving out of the mining yard. What used to happen was that as the trucks were being driven on the road, unfortunately, boys would fall off. The trucks were loaded fully so that the driver would not see the boys fall and would run them over with the very trucks.

Now, in terms of the lessons that we have learned, it is mining activities that always put safety as number priority. Wherever there are mining operations, we try as much as possible to stop people going to the mining site uninvited. In future, we will enhance surveillance and security, especially given that, now, there are drones. I think, that it will be important, going forward, that even the way we check the surroundings of particular mines is enhanced, and that is being done.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Mr Speaker, obviously, the mining activities at the Black Mountain did not start and end there. The activities also involved the transiting of materials from the Black Mountain to where the buyers were, and now in the process of transiting, there are reports of accidents, fatalities and private vehicles’ windscreens being broken by flying stones from the trucks moving materials from the Black Mountain. Does the hon. Minister think that his ministry has the responsibility to protect the interests of the travelling public in terms of the activities of mining, vis-à-vis the movement of material from the Black Mountain to the end users? I think, the question has been rightly asked. The mine operator had a responsibility to ensure people’s safety because he was not just involved in mining alone, but also the movement of materials to the end users. So, for any death that occurred in the process of hauling material to the end users, the mine operator should have borne the responsibility.

Mr Speaker, does the hon. Minister not think it would be prudent to offer some kind of relief to the people who got affected in the process of ferrying materials to the end users?

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for this question.

Mr Speaker, I am trying to be very careful in the way I refer to our people as I answer these questions. Let me give this example. Around the same area, at the height of the operation, there was a truck full of mattresses. Our people jumped onto that truck and we recorded some injuries. So, as I am saying, I want to be very careful how I address this matter because, sometimes, leaders may refer to the question that was asked by the previous speaker just to see how we can make sure that next time, there are no young boys jumping onto trucks carrying materials.

Mr Speaker, from the way the incidents unfolded, no one could guess that people were waiting to jump onto the trucks. Sometimes, the boys could just wait. You could not even see people on the roads. There were also police officers, including at the entrance to the mine, and, sometimes, one could clearly see that the road was clear. However, before long, one would just see one boy run to the truck and jump onto it. It was not something anyone could have thought would happen. So, these are what I would call natural occurrences. What do we do? What we do is to make sure that the trucks, if there is a scenario like that again, are given an escort right up to the point where they offload the material.

I thank you. Mr Speaker.

Mr Kalobo: Mr Speaker, life is precious; there is nothing you can equate it with. Now that the hon. Minister has admitted to what I said, I will provide evidence of the on-site shooting. I said that there was on-site shooting, meaning that the people who were working there were shot at. Is the Government going to facilitate –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

You are saying that you have evidence. Did you report to the police and produce that evidence?

Mr Kalobo: Mr Speaker, everything is there, and the hon. Minister is aware of that. He, at one point, sent me there. I went there on a Friday while he went there on Saturday.

Interruptions

Mr Kalobo: No problem, I have the evidence. Why are you arguing? Take your time, hon. Minister.

Laughter

Mr Kalobo: Mr Speaker, is the Government going to facilitate compensation for the people or is it going to declare the happenings at that site a disaster so that it can come in and compensate the families in Wusakile and other towns in Kitwe who suffered losses?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Thank you, but you said you reported to the police, meaning that the police are investigating. So, this matter is under investigation.

Mr Kalobo: There was no investigation, yet all these matters were reported. The evidence I am carrying is in form of a universal serial bus (USB) flash drive. On it, are video clips showing on-site shooting and people at the mortuary confirming that those people had been taken there directly from the Black Mountain. The hon. Minister knows this. As I have indicated, I cannot mislead the House. On a certain Friday, the hon. Minister dispatched me to go there and he went there on a Saturday. Let me–

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You said you that you have evidence. Lay on the Table.

Mr Kalobo laid a USB flash drive on the Table.

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, I have given sufficient answers to the questions. I will not delve into unverified issues.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

MINISTERS WHO ILLEGALLY OCCUPIED OFFICE AFTER DISSOLUTION OF PARLIAMENT

76. Mr Michelo (Bweengwa) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning:

1. whether all former Ministers who illegally occupied office after the dissolution of Parliament in 2016 had paid back the emoluments they illegally received, as of May 2023;

1. if so, what the average amount each hon. Minister paid back was;

1. what the total amount recovered was; and

1. in which bank the money was deposited.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Mr Speaker, the House may wish to note that fifty-nine out of sixty-three former Cabinet, Provincial and Deputy Ministers have paid back the emoluments they illegally received.

Mr Speaker, the average amount each former Minister paid back was K57,891.71. The total amount recovered from the fifty-nine former Ministers who have paid back was K3,415,611.58.

Mr Speaker, the money was deposited into the Zambia National Commercial Bank (ZANACO), MoF-Offset Obligation Payroll Account, Lusaka Business Centre Branch.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Michelo: I thank the hon. Minister for the response.

Mr Speaker, I know that another campaign period is ahead of us. Is this Government also going to behave the way the Patriotic Front (PF) Ministers did in 2016, when they occupied offices even after Parliament had been dissolved?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Member for this question.

The issue is that going towards the 2016 Elections, Parliament was dissolved, and the Constitution clearly states that once Parliament is dissolved, Ministers leave their office. However, the Patriotic Front (PF) Ministers did not leave office and, as a result of that, they were being paid allowances, which have now, by and large, been extracted from them.

Mr Speaker, the United Party for National Development (UPND) is a Government of laws and rules. When the Constitution says vacate office, we vacate office, and when you vacate office, you do not get paid. There are no salaries or allowances. So, the UPND Government will not act in that fashion.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Mr Speaker, some perpetrators and beneficiaries of that illegality have been making the loudest noise about the suspension and taking through the legal process of some Government employees for receiving money that they should not have got. Given that the noise made is, in fact, an indication of how they viewed public resources, does the hon. Minister have any word of advice to our colleagues should it so happen, in the most unlikely situation, that they find themselves presiding over some public resources?

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, yes.

When you are in office, you have to know that you are just there temporarily because the people of the country have given you the opportunity to serve. As a result of that, you must obey the laws.

Mr Speaker, hon. Ministers paying themselves or getting paid even after Parliament had been dissolved is just one of the many examples of how our colleagues did the opposite of what the law stated. There were many other examples. For example, it is common knowledge that if you go into a by-election or general election, Government property must not be utilised. During that time, …

Hon. UPND Member: Which period?

Dr Musokotwane: … the period of the Patriotic Front (PF) reign, …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: … towards an election, you would see a fleet of Government vehicles with number plates removed, and our colleagues would pretend to be obeying the law.

Mr Speaker, during that time –

Mr Tayali: Which time?

Dr Musokotwane: The PF time.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: We know, Mr Speaker, that a motor vehicle must only have one number plate. Under the PF Government, you could go to a certain place and find a number plate written ECL 2021. You drive another ten minutes and find another car with the “ECL 2021” number plate. Yet another thirty minutes’ drive, and you would find the same number plate. Those are the many examples of the failure to obey the law that we saw during that time.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Thank you so much, Mr Speaker, for giving me the chance, on behalf of the people of Lundazi, to ask a supplementary question on the interesting topic on the Floor.

Mr Speaker, I want to congratulate the Patriotic Front (PF) for being so magnanimous as to pay back.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Ms Nyirenda: Mr Speaker, when the law has been interpreted, it is just right to go back and do the right thing. So, for the people who paid back, I say ‘congratulations’. That is what leaders are supposed to do because there is separation of powers between –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Ms Nyirenda: I am getting there –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

This opportunity was given to you to ask a question, not to debate.

Ms Nyirenda: Thank you so much, Mr Speaker.  As you know, I have not debated yet. So, I am ready.

Mr Speaker, when we are elected, we are given a five-year mandate. That is how long a term is. Now that the United Party for National Development (UPND) is in power, is it willing to amend this law so that what happened to the PF does not happen to the UPND?

Mr Amutike: What happened?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: This is a different question talking about …

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: … amendments. It is a different question altogether.

Maybe, rephrase your question and remove the amendment part, hon. Member.

Rev. Katuta: Ema Speaker!

Ms Nyirenda: Thank you so much, Mr Speaker.

A term runs for five years. Does the hon. Minister think it would be wise to extend the stay of hon. Ministers to five years, especially given that that is what the term system entails?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, in my opinion, first of all, the hon. Member is wrong in saying that because those who got money illegally paid it back, they must be congratulated. It is like finding that somebody harvested in your field, and took away five bags of maize, and you tell them that the maize is not theirs and that they must bring it back. When they bring the maize back, do you say, ‘First of all, congratulations on bringing back my maize’.

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, we cannot agree with that. As for the question on whether the Constitution needs to be amended so that the term of hon. Members of Parliament is five years, by that, she means the point when you enter to the time you exit, which, currently, sometimes, is not because Parliament is dissolved a few months before the general elections. I think, that is up to the Zambian public to consider.

Rev. Katuta: Volume!

Dr Musokotwane: However, to the extent that such an amendment is not made, …

Mr B. Mpundu: Baumfwa ka ndalama baikala zi!

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: … none of us is going to act the way the PF Ministers did, whereby they collected money that was not theirs.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity, on behalf of the people of Chifubu, to ask a question.

From the list of all those who obtained the money and were later requested to pay it back, how many have not paid and why they have not paid?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, four have not paid back, and the amount involved, in total, is K230,022.66.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Why?

Mr E. Tembo (Feira): Mr Speaker, my question is a rider to the question asked in terms of advice. There are people in the current Government who may find themselves doing that. I am talking about people getting consent judgments and K6 million being paid through the Attorney-General. What would the hon. Minister’s advice be should someone challenge those consent judgements in court, particularly in the Constitutional Court?

Mr Simushi: Go and challenge.

Mr E. Tembo: I am going to challenge.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I think, that is a hypothetical question. If there is anyone who is going to be caught offside the law, the law can take its course and, at that point, if the court says ‘pay’, they will pay. It is as simple as that.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Amutike: Hear, hear!

Mr Michelo: Mr Speaker, the people who got money illegally were told by the court to payb the money back. They did not pay it back voluntarily. Now that they have paid back that money, is that enough evidence for them to be taken to court for further punishment?

Laughter

Mr Michelo: Mr Speaker, is the money they paid back not enough evidence to take before a court? The former Ministers confessed that they got the money illegally, so, they committed a crime. Is it not prudent that they be tried and jailed if found guilty?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Member for saying that those who paid back the money which they had been paid were admitting to having done something wrong.

Mr Speaker, on what should happen next, all I can say is that I am sure that the Zambia Police and other agencies are listening. I am not a law enforcement agency but, I am sure, the rightful agencies are listening.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Laughter

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

CONSTRUCTION OF TOLL PLAZA ON MKUSHI/MUSOFU/MUNDAWANGA ROAD IN MKUSHI DISTRICT

77. Mr C. Chibuye (Mkushi North) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

1. whether the Government has any plans to construct a toll plaza on the Mkushi/Musofu/Mundawanga Road in Mkushi District;

1. if so, when the plans will be implemented;

1. what the estimated cost of the project is; and

1. if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Tourism (Mr Sikumba) (on behalf of the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi)): Mr Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to construct a toll plaza on the Mkushi/Musofu/Mundawanga Road in Mkushi District.

Mr Speaker, the plan may be considered for implementation in future as the National Road Tolling Rollout Programme continues.

Mr Speaker, the estimated cost of the project will only be established once the design of the project is made.

Mr Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to construct a toll plaza because it has not been captured in the current National Road Tolling Rollout Plan due to financial constraints.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr C. Chibuye: Mr Speaker, the reason I asked this question is that I was looking at how the Government is losing out on revenue through motorists who by-pass the tollgates using the Kapiri Mposhi Road. They are using that shorter road into the Copperbelt.

Mr Speaker, what is the Government going to do to ensure that it does not lose revenue through motorists using the road in question?

Mr Sikumba: Mr Speaker, as I mentioned earlier, the project on the road in question was supported by the World Bank under the Improved Rural Connectivity Project. The road is still an all-weather gravel road. So, this could be a question of what comes first between a chicken and an egg. Essentially, what needs to happen on that 92.5 km stretch of road is that it be upgraded to bituminous standard. We will eventually look at the opportunity of putting up tollgate. Indeed, it is very true that we are losing quite a lot of revenue because there is no road tolling there. However, it is important that we upgrade the road to bituminous standard first.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

_______

MOTIONS

BUDGET 2024

(Debate resumed)

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for this opportunity to add my voice to this very import debate on the Budget Speech.

Mr Speaker, may I start by registering my displeasure to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Mr Speaker, when the hon. Minister was delivering his speech, over 50 per cent of the United Party for National Development (UPND) hon. Members were sleeping. They should have been offering support to the hon. Minister because he was delivering a very important Budget Speech. I, however, gave a lot of support to Hon. Dr Musokotwane because I had promised him prior to that speech, that I was going to support him right through, together with the Patriotic Front (PF) hon. Members. So, for those who took a nap, I wish to register my displeasure. It was a wrong time to take a nap. They needed to support the hon. Minister.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Mundubile: Mr Speaker, as I look at the speech, I will look at paragraphs 3 and 6 –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Before you go any further, I know, there was a time I allowed an hon. Member from my right, but how does it feel to debate your friends? You are saying other hon. Members were dozing. The rules of the House do not allow us to debate ourselves, and there is a need to for us to conform to the rules of the House. I just wanted to remind you of that.

You may continue.

Mr Mundubile: Mr Speaker, we enjoy a lot of camaraderie with the hon. Colleagues on your right. I have been in Parliament with Hon. Mwiimbu and Hon. Lufuma. We are friends, actually, and we enjoy this. Sometimes, we are disturbed by third parties but, otherwise. Otherwise, on our own, we are fine.

Mr Speaker, on our own, we are very fine.

Mr. Mwiimbu interjected.

Laughter

Mr Mundubile: Mr Speaker, I will start with paragraph 3, in which the hon Minister stated the following:

“Madam Speaker, this is the third Budget that the New Dawn Administration is presenting to this House. Since coming into office just two years ago, our administration has achieved excellent progress in changing the social and economic landscape of our country”

Mr Speaker, in paragraph 6, the hon. Ministers says:

“Madam, ordinarily, these should be achievements over an entire five-year term, but this has happened in just two years!”

Mr Speaker, I thought that this is very important to look at so that we isolate the two periods; the two years under the UPND, when we have had the enhanced Constituency Development Fund (CDF), and the period under the Patriotic Front (PF), when the CDF was only K1.6 million. So, the two periods must be separated and unpacked so that people can understand.

Mr Speaker, by way of example, if you look at the health sector, for instances, you will see that the time CDF was K1.6 million, there were 650 health posts built countrywide and the CDF was still K1.6 million.

Mr Samakayi: Question!

Mr Mundubile: Mr Speaker, even the Kenneth Kaunda International Airport (KKIA), Simon Mwansa Kapwepwe International Airport and Harry Mwanga Nkumbula International Airport were built in the period when the CDF was K1.6 million. I am laying my foundation so that we isolate the two periods.

Mr Speaker, the Chingola/Solwezi Road, the Bottom Road and the Kazungula Bridge were built when the CDF was at K1.6 million. The houses for Zambia Army, Zambia Police Service, Zambia Air Force (ZAF) and the Zambia National Service (ZNS) officers in Kabwe, Monze, Chongwe and everywhere else were built when the CDF was still at K1.6 million. The CDF is a game change, but it was a game changer even at K1.6 million. Just look at the infrastructure that was developed in this county when the CDF was at K1.6 million. So, I agree with those who say that the CDF is a game changer.

Mr Speaker, the industrial yards countrywide were built when the CDF was at K1.6 million. The fuel storage facilities in Mpika, Solwezi and everywhere else were built when the CDF was at K1.6 million. The milling plants dotted around the country and over 2,000 communication towers were built when the CDF was at K1.6 million. I, therefore, wish to agree that, indeed, the CDF is a game changer, and it has been a game changer even when it was at K1.6 million.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mundubile: Mr Speaker, the Lusaka 400 Kilometre (L400) township roads and the Copperbelt 400 Kilometre (C400) township roads projects were implemented when the CDF was at K1.6 million. These are just but examples. During our time, we did not have challenges of Government officials fighting with hon. Members of Parliament over the commissioning of projects. In my constituency, boreholes were commissioned by Councillors. I have never commissioned a borehole. The difference between the two periods – of course, I have to give credit. Under the enhanced CDF, we have commissioned a 1x3 classroom block while our colleagues have handed over desks and a few clinics. We cannot say that there is nothing that has happened under the enhanced CDF. So, in as much as there was K1.6 million, there were visible projects, which I have just outlined. However, under the enhanced CDF, we are now fighting to commission 1x3 classroom blocks.

Mr Speaker, I will go on to my discussion, as I was just laying the foundation.

The background I have given relates to what I did not see in this Budget. What I wanted to see in this Budget was the response to what is happening on the ground. Right now, the biggest fight that we have is the fight against poverty. To be able to fight poverty, we must industrialise. To industrialise, we must invest, particularly in backbone infrastructure. When we invest in communication towers, trunk roads, bridges and the energy sector, we are able to improve power generation.

Hon. Government Members: Where?

Mr Mundubile: Mr Speaker, since Independence, Zambia had only been generating 1600 MW of power. By the time we were leaving office, however, power generation was at 3500 MW. We had more than doubled the power-generation capacity. What we are saying is that when you want to industrialise and attract investment so that that you create employment and fight poverty, you must consider what investors look at. Investors look at power generation at how your energy sector is. They also look at communication and other infrastructure.

Mr Speaker, if we look at the Budget, we see that it increased from K120 billion in 2021 to K170 billion in 2022. There was a very high jump of K50 billion in the Budget. However, from 2021 to 2022 and now, what infrastructure have we seen under the UPND?

Mr Speaker, I agree that there have been 1x3 classroom blocks, desks, and other things, but, when we want to attract investment, we must know that investors do not care about those things. They are very important to our people, but we must be focused on our fight; the fight against poverty. If we are fighting poverty, we cannot go and display desks, 1x3 classroom blocks and boreholes. Our investors are looking at backbone infrastructure; infrastructure that will enable them to industrialise. We have to be able to industrialise.

Interruptions

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes, poverty!

Mr Mundubile: Mr Speaker, the focus is on poverty. Our biggest fight is against poverty.

Hon. Government Members: Did you fight poverty?

Mr Mundubile: We can go to town and praise ourselves and say everything else but, if we do not tackle poverty, then, we will have a problem.

Mr Speaker, in tourism infrastructure, I think, as the PF, we did well when the CDF was at K1.6 million. I wish to pay glowing tribute to my colleagues, Hon. Mutotwe Kafwaya. Well done! Hon Chitalu Chilufya, well done for the heath posts. Hon. Chitotela, well done for the Kazungula Bridge and the Solwezi/Chingola Road. I want to pay tribute to my friends.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mundubile: Mr Speaker, the issue was on backbone infrastructure. Hon. David Mubumba, well done for over 1,000 secondary schools in that period when the CDF was at K1.6 million. Indeed, CDF is a game changer, and I want to continue believing that. I know there are a few friends who may be new in the House and believe that development is only through the CDF. I want my colleagues to see me over a cup of tea so that I explain to them what development is. When I see them excited about small projects, I sympathise with them because we are talking about the real backbone infrastructure that we have cited. My friend from Kazungula has the Kazungula Bridge. I do not know how many CDFs would go into that bridge.

Mr Michelo: Mr Speaker, on a point of order.

Mr Mundubile: Mr Speaker, in Kaputa, there is a K170 million water project. One project was implemented at 170 million when the CDF was at K1.6 million. If it was now, it would have taken the entire five years for that single project.

With those few remarks. I wish to thank you most sincerely, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simushi (Sikongo): Mr Speaker, today, I wanted to be very sobre in my debate, but I am being forced to speak because of what I am getting from my hon. Colleague. Let me put it this way: the 2024 Budget Speech that was presented by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning can be described as very progressive. That, of course, is giving a lot of hope to this country in terms of its developmental trajectory.

Mr Speaker, when I hear senior hon. Members debate in the manner they have debated, it gives me –

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Hon Leader of the Opposition, there is some noise being generated from there. You had your turn, and everyone was attentive.

Mr Simushi: Mr Speaker, I think, when our colleagues speak so loudly about what they did and then someone looks at how they lost the elections in a big way, then, we begin to wonder because it does not add up. I know, it is politics, but I want to put it this way: this country is now in the right hands. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is right to liken the two years of the United Party for National Development (UPND) in office to a complete five-year term. What do we mean by this? In two years, we have been able to provide free education, we have increased the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) from K1.6 million, we have increased meal allowances for university students, we have paid retirees, and now, when farmers take their maize to the Food Reserve Agency (FRA), they get their money. There are so many things that have happened in two years. I think, it is a very good picture to paint that the two years have been very successful and the people of Zambia are very happy.

Mr Speaker, economic development cannot be measured by one thing; the mealie meal prices, no. There is more to it, and this Government has acknowledged that we are going to work on the mealie meal prices because we are looking at solving problems in a sustainable manner.

Mr Samakayi: Hear, hear!

Mr Simushi: Mr Speaker, the problem of mealie meal prices fluctuating has been recurrent from one Government to another. What this New Dawn Administration is trying to do is to solve this problem once and for all. That is why we are saying that we want to unlock the economic potential of this country by looking at potential sectors of our economy on which we can anchor development.

Mr Speaker,in agriculture, as we unlock the economic potential, let us invest in irrigation facilities. We also have to increase mechanisation and have a credit window so that people can have access to cheap finance that they can use. Thereafter, there will be more production and productivity in the sector. By so doing, we are going to make sure that we have enough food, not only to feed ourselves, but also to feed our neighbouring countries, which seem to depend on the agricultural production in this country.

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Simushi: I think, the Government is putting in place measures that are progressive.

Mr Speaker, in the mining sector, this Government is now talking about not looking at copper as the only mineral to depend on but, instead expand the base in terms of mineral resources. We want to explore the whole country so that the potential, in terms of our mineral resources, is mapped out and known. That is very important.

Sir, we are also putting in place the Mineral Regulations Commission to make sure that everything is regulated. So, I think, these steps are positive, and that is just how we are going to unlock the potential that we are talking about.

Mr Speaker, there has been a lot of investment in tourism, looking at how much money has been given to the sector. We see many positive moves, year in and year out, and that is how it is supposed to be done. Had the previous Administration had done what the New Dawn Administration is doing, the problems that we have today of mealie meal would not have been here. So, I think, let us give credit where it is due.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simushi: Mr Speaker, sometimes, I laugh at some of the things that our hon. Colleagues talk about. I liken them to the adage about the young antelope that danced himself lame before the main show. That is what they are doing. They are making a lot of noise. This Government is only two years in office. Do they think we are not seeing the problems they are bringing out? We are seeing and we are going to address them. In the long term, they will have nothing to talk about, and that is how they are going to remain in the Opposition even in 2026.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simushi: Mr Speaker, I want to talk about one of the progressive measures that I have seen in this Budget. We have seen the Ministry of Finance and National Planning shift from external borrowing to finance the Budget to depending on domestic revenue. I think, this is a very positive move that we need to make in this country. We need to depend on our own resources and support our Budget from internal revenue. I, however, think, it is very important, as we do that, is to make sure that the institutions that are mandated to collect revenue for this country are co-ordinated. We need to make sure that the systems that have been created to enhance resource mobilisation speak to one another. There is a need for co-ordination among the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA), Bank of Zambia (BoZ), Ministry of Finance and National Planning and other institutions. The co-ordination should not only be for institutions, but also the systems that we use to generate resources generated locally.

Mr Speaker, we have seen this Government focus on sealing leakages of resources, and it has done that very well. That is why we have seen, in the Auditor-General’s Report for 2022, that it has performed very well in that area.

Mr Michelo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Simushi: Sir, the New Dawn Government, through the leadership of His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, has performed very well, and it needs to be given credit. I think, the support that we are receiving from the outside world is not by mistake; it is because the people out there are seeing that Zambia, now, is in safe hands. Zambia now has leaders who are focussed on making it become a prosperous middle-income nation by 2030.

Mr Speaker, to me, it is very good to envision a situation in which the Vision 2030 is realised by the New Dawn Administration. How good would that be? It is going to be a very good thing because moving forward, we are going to see a situation in which the problems that we are talking about; the ones that have ravaged us, are a thing of the past.

Mr Amutike: Quality!

Mr Simushi: Mr Speaker, one of the things that I want to conclude with is debt restructuring. I think, our hon. Colleagues on your left should appreciate this Government for having solved a problem they created.

Interruptions

Mr Simushi: They created a very big problem for this country. All these challenges that we are facing are of their making. Now, instead of appreciating us and the President, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and his team for the work that they have done to make sure that we reach debt restructuring, our colleagues are now trying to find ways and means of demonising the debt restructuring process, itself. That is not supposed to be the case.

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Simushi: This country is for all of us. So, let us work together. Our Colleagues should criticise positively.

Mr Speaker, with these few remarks, I want to thank you say that the people of Sikongo support the Budget.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Sikongo knows very well that this House has rules and practices. When we bring the President’s name into our debate, we are told –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: State what rule has been breached, hon. Member.

Mr Munir Zulu: That is where I am going, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Start with the breach.

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member has mentioned the President’s name in his debate.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Start with what rule has been breached.

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, he has labelled us, on the left, as having left problems. This is my first time in Parliament. I was not here, –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, Standing Order No. 65 requires us all to be factual. The hon. Member should be factual. It is a fact that this is my first term in Parliament. The hon. Member for Sikongo said, “the people on your left”, which includes us who were not here before 2021. Is he in order to mislead the public, himself and the people of Sikongo that the hon. Members on your left left a mess when for some of us, this is our first term in Parliament?

I seek your serious ruling on this matter, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I think, the hon. Member was trying to refer to the former Ruling Party.

The next person is the hon. Member for Kafue.

Hon. Government Members: Hammer!

Mrs Chonya (Kafue) Mr Speaker, thank you for this opportunity. Indeed, there is a lot to hammer and speak positively about in this Budget Speech, which was ably presented by our hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Mr Speaker, indeed, some positive strides were referred to in the area of social protection. Plans to improve our water supply are also highly commendable, especially, given that as Kafue, we are also just coming from commissioning some upgraded water plant. It is good to see that the Government wants to continue on that trajectory.

Mr Speaker, with regard to the increase in the allocation to the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), even the Leader of the Opposition, who was saying what he was saying, obviously, knows that the way the game has changed with the enhanced CDF has made things far different from the K1.6 million that we are talking about. The only statement that he got me worried about was the one in which tried to trivialise education, as a very important strategy for long term-poverty reduction. I think, he should move away from the Patriotic Front (PF) kind of thinking in which people want to eat now.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chonya: Education is a long-term investment, and there is no way we can divorce it from poverty reduction.

This Budget Speech addresses decentralisation, the good that has come with it and the transfer of responsibilities from certain departments to the lower levels to improve efficiency. However, I just want to focus my debate on two aspects, which are roads and the manufacturing sector.

Mr Speaker, under roads, I am interested in what the hon. Minister says in paragraph 91 of his speech, which is as follows:

“Our country is vast and requires huge sums of money to build and maintain roads. Unfortunately, we do not have the money for all the roads at once, more so given the debt left behind by the previous administration. This means that our room for borrowing is highly limited.”

Mr Speaker, this is a very accurate statement that I agree with. Further, the hon. Minister said that not every road can be financed through the public-private partnership (PPP) model because investors prefer roads on which there is heavy traffic to enable them to recoup their investments. Tis notwithstanding, the PPP remains very useful for us because the limited resources of the Government can be deployed to roads that are of no commercial interest to the private sector.

Mr Speaker, in his speech, the hon. Minister went on to talk about the many kilometres that are going to be worked on, especially under the Rural Road Connectivity Improvement Project and the project to improve feeder roads using the CDF as well as the equipment that most of us have acquired. My question here is: Given the little that the hon. Minister talked about concerning township roads, where does this leave us, especially we, who have large parts of our constituencies in urban areas where there is a cry for roads to upgrade to bituminous standard?

Mr Speaker, yes, the debt is there but, I think, we need to find a way to quickly begin to address the issue of township roads. If you ask me where the money will come from, I will say that, for instance, in this Budget, I was looking at the K2.7 billion allocated to housing and community amenities. I was wondering which community amenities we are now not able to deal with using the CDF.

Mr Speaker, regarding housing, I am not currently aware of any project that the Government is undertaking. Perhaps, through the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA), to some extent, yes, there is one, but as the Central Government, I do not think that there is any housing project that we are undertaking. However, I do acknowledge, in fact, that the housing deficit is quite huge in this country. The good thing about addressing the deficit is that most Zambians now want to build provided, they are assisted to acquire plots.

Mr Samakayi: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chonya: So, such monies can go into the roads so that we have some peace for places like Shantumbu, where there is a genuine need for them. People have been crying for a bituminous road.

Mr Speaker, since time is not with me, let me quickly move onto manufacturing. I also see the Government’s intention to continue providing incentives, especially in multi-facility economic zones (MFEZs). I was of the view that the incentives be applied even to areas that are outside the zones because the problems experienced by poor people who are trying to support manufacturing are quite similar. I also note the comment on the Employment Code and how it has been a disadvantage to investors. The hon. Minister responsible for labour will also take note of this matter …

Mr Samakayi: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chonya: …because it is a real. There are some things that are practically difficult for private sector players to deal with in our Employment Code.

Mr Amutike: Quality!

Mrs Chinoya: However, that should not be at the expense of affording Zambians some decent work conditions as is currently being experienced in some industries. I would urge us to do a lot more, and I invite our hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security to visit companies like Alliance Ginneries in Kafue to appreciate what we are talking about here.

Finally, Mr Speaker, on the issue of manufacturing, again, I note the Government ‘s talk about some progress that has been made a few exports of fertiliser, for example. Sadly, the exports are not coming from the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NCZ) because it has continued to have challenges in production. Talking about money, I think, we will do well to find some, to revive companies like NCZ. As we look at the opportunities and what is coming, even through Chinese investments, let us look at distributing the opportunities across various towns.

Mr Samakayi: Hear, hear!

Mr Amutike: Quality!

Mrs Chonya: I was listening the other day, and while NCZ has been struggling with the blending issue –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Members’ time expired.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to add my voice to this very important debate on the Motion on the Floor of the House on behalf of the people of Chienge.

Sir, the Budget is what every person in our country is yearning for. Unfortunately, it is always written in English in big words that can only be understood by economists and accountants. As a result, the people of Chienge and the people of Mwinilunga have been deprived of in formation …

Mr Samakayi: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Rev. Katuta: … because they cannot understand what the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is saying.

Mr Speaker, quickly, I would like to talk about the theme of the Budget, which is “Unlocking Economic Potential”. I was wondering what this theme is all about because it does not relate to reality on the ground.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Rev. Katuta: How do you unlock potential when you are failing to pay local suppliers who have supplied services and goods to the Government? How does that put money in circulation? It is killing its people’s businesses by not paying them. As long the local suppliers who supplied to the Government have not been paid, we are not going to have money in circulation.

Sir, everyone is complaining that the Government has deliberately not been paying suppliers who supplied goods and services to the it. The suppliers have been doing business with the Government even before the Patriotic Front (PF). They were doing so with the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government. Some may even have done business with the Government during the United National Independence Party (UNIP) rule. So, why can this Government not release their money since this problem has affected all Zambians. As long as suppliers cannot have money in their bank accounts or in their businesses, we are literally killing our own businesses. When the Government talks of unlocking potential, does it mean unlocking potential only for investors from China and other countries? No. Firstly, we have to empower our own.

Mr Speaker, we have mines in this country, but no single mine is owned by a Zambian. There is no single mine the Government can point at as its own. As we speak, Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) has been given back to Vedanta Resources Limited, a company that is known to ill-treat our people. Why should we go back to enslavement?

Mr Speaker, the Government is talking about how Vedanta Resources Limited will come and create employment in this country. When we look at the mining sector, we see that currently, the sector is highly mechanised, it is not like what it was in the past when we would have bashi mine go to mine using picks and anything else. So, which employment are the investors going to create?

Mr Speaker, the Government is saying that it is going to create employment. How does it create employment when it only employs in the Civil Service? Further, how is it going to get people money be injected in the economy?

Mr Chaatila: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chaatila: Mr Speaker, I rise on a serious point of order.

Mr Speaker, we are supposed to use the English Language in this House as the Official Language of communication. The hon. Member of Parliament for Chienge has used a strange terminology, which is “shi mine”. Is she in order to proceed without telling us what that phrase means.

I seek your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chienge, you should use English because we do not understand what you mean by “shi mine”.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You can proceed, hon. Member.

Rev. Katuta: Mr Speaker, I am still talking about what is owed to local suppliers.

Mr Speaker, in the Budget for 2024, only K6 billion has been allocated to paying off the suppliers out of the K96 billion the Government owes them. How, then, do we empower our own? This is wrong, and the Government must stop injuring its people. Everyone is affected because this Government has deliberately decided to not pay local investors. So, how does it unlock the potential? Is it doing it for foreign entities, but and not for its own?

Mr Samakayi: Question!

Rev. Katuta: Mr Speaker, what is going on now is that there is so much support to the corporate world; the outside world, and that is killing small-scale industries. In this country, we are talking about investment, yet when we look at manufacturing, we see that there is nothing we are manufacturing. We have heard from the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation that our Government and that of the People’s Republic of China have signed trade agreements. In what are we going to trade with China?

Mr Speaker, China has copper in its soil, but it cannot mine it because it is keeping it for the future while we are allowing it to come and mine in our country. The Government has said that 3 million tonnes of our copper will be mined. In future, our children will ask us when they see ditches as tourist attractions because all our minerals will be gone. The Chinese are piling up for the future. Why can this Government that says it has come to fix things not change and tell the people of Zambia that this is the time for them to form consortia and start running the mines?

Mr Speaker, the Government has brought people who are going to mine at a very fast rate before Zambians and Africans wake up. By the time the locals wake up and realise that what is being done is wrong, it will be late, and our children will only find ditches and destroyed roads. When our children ask us what caused the ditches, we will tell them that we gave the foreigners to mine our copper. If they ask what the benefits were, we will tell them that the mines were paying mineral royalties. However, although there is a requirement of paying the Mineral Royalty Tax, the investors will just say that the mines were not doing well and the Government will give them back the royalties. What benefits are the Zambian people getting? There are no benefits, yet we are the owners of these minerals. It is about time this Government reversed the minerals and told the foreign investors what is expected of them when they come to invest in Zambia and how much belongs to the Zambians. If you look at all the mines in this country, you will see that no single Zambian is part of any of them, and that is a shameful thing.

Mr Speaker, there is nothing that we produce, yet and where we are expected to get something, we are busy bringing investors, even for minerals such as sugilite. We are waiting for a foreign investor to come and mine when we have Zambians here who can do that. This is just wrong and imprudent. How do we get medicine into hospitals when we are always begging?

Mr Speaker, why do we send our children to universities? Do we send them to school so that after they graduate, they work for foreigners who come with directors of finance and all executives they bring into this country? What kind of employment are we creating? The Civil Service is also bloated.

Mr Samakayi: Question!

Rev. Katuta: This is just wrong.

Mr Speaker, as I wind up, let me say that this Government, which claims to be made up of educated people, must help Zambians. It should start paying the local suppliers. The Government cannot put the interests of its neighbours first while allowing its own children to starve. That is wrong, and it must change.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Samakayi: Question!

Mr Simbao (Luanshya): Mr Speaker, the people of Luanshya have slowly, but steadily, begun seeing the vision of His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, and the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, the Budget Speech, whose theme is “Unlocking Economic Potential”, is not only inspirational, but also encouraging and motivating. Those of you who have, time and again, travelled to the Copperbelt have probably ignored going to Luanshya because of the state of the road, from the highway right into Luanshya. This is because of the way in which the road was left. For a number of years, that road has not been attended to. However, the New Dawn Government is going to unlock it. The road will be worked on, and that mean the potential that has been in Luanshya all this time will now be exposed and will be seen.

On education, Mr Speaker, if you came to Luanshya, you would be surprised to see the number of schools that were left uncompleted, with Fisenge Secondary School being one of them. There is also Kapupulu, Kasongo and other schools. However, with this Budget, all of them will be completed.

Mr Mwila: Question!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Indeed, you can say, “Question!” because you do not stay in Luanshya, but those of us  who live there are seeing things come to life. The children at Fisenge Secondary School, which has no laboratory, will soon have one, thereby unlocking the learners’ potential and enabling them to have more lessons.

Mr Speaker, if you came to Luanshya, you would see that some schools are run by two teachers. With the additional teachers who are going to be employed, schools are going to have more teachers to teach the children. Patel School is one such school. We thank the hon. Minister of Education, and we ask that he considers Luanshya. He will be unlocking the potential of the children who are there.

Mr Speaker, in health, this Budget has prioritised the Ministry of Health priority.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, Hear!

Mr Mwila: Question!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, we have Thomson Hospital in Luanshya. You cannot talk of hospitals without mentioning Thomson Hospital, but there is literally nothing to talk about. If you went to that hospital for a very simple test, you would be asked to go to either Ndola or Roan to get the results. However, the New Dawn Government has prioritised the provision of quality healthcare services. So, we look forward to having equipment at the hospital, which will mean unlocking the potential – We lose patients who would have helped this nation. They could have been good businesspeople or politicians like us but, because of the lack of equipment, this has been a problem.

Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister of Health for her positive response. Last time, I said that we had repaired five ambulances in Luanshya although to date, they are not running. With the Government prioritising the provision of quality healthcare services, I am hopeful that the ambulances will start moving. They are not moving because we do not have drivers. I am very confident that they are now going to have drivers and will be able to service the people and unlock the potential that has been locked up all this time in Luanshya.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, we have no water in places like Kamirenda and Mikomfwa. However, when you look at what the Budget and what the hon. Minister is suggesting, it is clear that Luanshya is slowly, but surely coming back to what it used to be.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr E. Tembo (Feira): Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to contribute to debate on the Budget Speech. I also want to just air some views based on what I have analysed in the speech.

Mr Speaker, Zambia’s economy has historically been run using mining and agriculture. Before I go further, I just want to remind the nation of what Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC., great son of this country, may his soul rest in peace, he said, “The reason God put the stomach in front was to ensure that you remember that eating is important.” Having said that, the escalating price of mealie meal is leading to serious hunger in the homes. Our friends are messing up what the stomach needs. It appears that the 2024 Budget has been prepared without due consideration of the factors on the ground.

Mr Nkandu: Question!

Mr E. Tembo: It is based on –

Mr Speaker, the Constitution states that every year, the hon. Minister responsible for finance must present a Budget. In this Budget, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning says, in paragraph 3 of the speech:

“Since coming into office just two years ago, our Administration has achieved excellent progress in changing the social and economic landscape of our country.”

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

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The House adjourned at 1840 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 6^th October, 2023.

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