Debates- Tuesday, 27th March, 2012

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Tuesday, 27th March, 2012

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]






The Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Dr Phiri): Mr Speaker, on 22nd March, 2012, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chadiza, Mr Mbewe, raised a point of order asking me to clarify reports to the effect that some Zambian students studying in Russia had been beaten up and also explain the closure of Chizongwe Technical Secondary School in Chipata and Chiwala Technical Secondary School in Ndola. Following this point of order, you directed that I make a ministerial statement on the three issues.

Mr Speaker, firstly, allow me to clarify the situation of the Zambian students reported to have been battered in St. Petersburg, Russia. However, it is important for me to give this august House some background information on the Russian Government scholarships. Immediately after attaining Independence, the Zambian Government and the then Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) entered into agreements which culminated into the signing of the first technical and cultural co-operation in 1966. This was aimed at assisting the new nation of Zambia, which then had a limited pool of highly-trained human resource, to attain self sufficiency in the area of education to administer the country well. The technical co-operation has grown further even after the disintegration of the Soviet Union and has continued with the Russian Federation.

Mr Speaker, the scholarships offered to Zambia by the Russian Federation have assisted young citizens of Zambia to attain university education at both the undergraduate and postgraduate levels in various important fields such as architecture, mining, engineering, pharmacy and medicine. The number of scholarships has increased gradually from thirty in 1966 to the current 100 per year. The ministry has just completed the selection of 100 Zambians for the 2012 scholarships. 

Currently, there are 475 Zambian students in the Russian Federation out of whom eighty-seven are studying in St. Petersburg. In addition, there are a number of Zambian students on self sponsorship at various universities in the Russian Federation. We pay tribute to the Russian Federation for the support Zambia continues to receive in the form of scholarships.

Mr Speaker, I now wish to inform this august House about the circumstances leading to the battering of Zambian students in St. Petersburg. On Sunday, 18th March, 2012, at about 0300 hours in the morning, three Zambian students, namely Christopher Bwanga, Chrispin Bwanga and Leonard Kabanda, were beaten up by students suspected to have been Russian who were doing part-time guard duties at a pub or bar. The Zambian embassy reported that the Zambian students had earlier hosted a party for one of their Russian girlfriends at their hostels and later decided to continue drinking at a nearby pub where they met their fate. Two Zambian students, namely William Mulenga and Nathan Kaumba, managed to escape leaving their three colleagues behind.


Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, Christopher Wanga …

Hon. Members: Bwanga!

Dr Phiri: … Bwanga …


Dr Phiri: … sustained a broken skull, …


Dr Phiri: … Chrispin Bwanga had a broken jaw …


Dr Phiri: … while Leonard Kabanda sustained a deep cut on his head. 


Dr Phiri: His Excellency the Ambassador to Russia, Mr Frederick Hapunda, has informed us about the incident through a very detailed report dated 24th March, 2012 for which we are grateful. The report states that the hospital authorities could not immediately operate on Christopher Bwanga, who had a spot on the brain, as his condition needed to be monitored for the next seven days. The other Bwanga with a broken jaw was due to be operated on yesterday, 26th March, 2012 and will be in hospital for a further seven days after the operation. We have yet to receive the latest information on this matter.

His Excellency the Ambassador further stated that the battering of the Zambian students was not hate motivated. The bar/pub is usually patronised by African students, some of whom were present at the time the Zambians were battered, but were not attacked.  The focus of the fight was on Chrispin Bwanga who had a confrontation with two Russian girls in the bar. The other two joined in the fight to rescue him. His Excellency the Ambassador notes that excessive beer drinking and having relationships with Russian girls is a major source of concern. Sometimes, the students tend to fight amongst themselves after taking intoxicating liquor. All this is happening despite the orientation and security awareness that was given to them by the Zambian Mission officials in Russia. 

In view of this, we were advised that the reports by the Zambian private media that the Zambian students were beaten by Russians should be dismissed as the people involved were, in fact, not Russians or redheads.

Mr Speaker, allow me to turn your attention to the closure of Chizongwe in Chipata. I wish to inform the House that the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education was compelled to close the school on 20th March, 2012 to save the lives of the boys at Chizongwe. The decision to close the school was arrived at following the riotous behaviour of the pupils on 16th March, 2012. The boys at Chizongwe went to a school that is 8 km away in Chipata Town, Anoya Zulu Secondary School, and caused extensive damage to the school infrastructure and the seventeen motor vehicles that were parked within the school grounds. 

Sir, the reason for the riot was that a pupil from Chizongwe Technical Secondary School was allegedly assaulted by some boys from Anoya Zulu Secondary School during a sports festival at which a confrontation had erupted between the two schools on 16th March, 2012. The boys from Chizongwe did not react immediately. Instead, they went to their school and, around 2300 hours at night, they walked to Anoya Zulu Secondary School and broke window panes of classrooms, the office block and library. They also shattered windscreens of seventeen private motor vehicles and two GRZ vehicles. 

Mr Speaker, school infrastructure is built and maintained at a very high cost. Therefore, the Government cannot condone wanton disrtuction of such infrastructure. The total cost of damage at Anoya Zulu Secondary School has been estimated at K121,628,50. It is in view of this that the ministry will surcharge all pupils from Chizongwe for the damage caused to the property. Further, the ministry will take appropriate disciplinary action against the perpetrators and other pupils found wanting. Once investigations have been exhausted, the school will open three weeks earlier than the other schools to compensate for the lost time.

Mr Speaker, it is saddening to note that there is lack of leadership, supervision and guidance in many of our schools. It is difficult to understand how the pupils at Chizongwe planned the riot and marched 8 km to Anoya Zulu Secondary School to carry out their evil acts without being detected. Should investigations prove that there was some negligence on the part of the school management and on the staff, my ministry will ensure that appropriate measures are taken to address the anomaly. The seventy-three boys who were picked up by the police and remanded in custody have since been released on police bond.

Allow me, Sir, to pay tribute to the provincial leadership, the hon. Deputy Minister of Eastern Province, Mr C. Banda, the Permanent Secretary and the Provincial Education Officer for managing the situation exceptionally well. The lives of pupils from both Chizongwe and Anoya secondary schools were in great danger. In fact, after the riot, pupils from Chizongwe Technical Secondary School were threatened by their colleagues from Anoya Zulu Secondary School and the surrounding communities. This is why we had to close the school so that we give time for emotions to heal.

Mr Speaker, let me now conclude my ministerial statement by explaining the closure of Chiwala Secondary School in Ndola. Pupils from Chiwala Secondary School in Ndola rioted on 19th March, 2012 because there was no water supply at the school for five days. The school has its own water supply and the only water pump had broken down. There was also a blocked sewer which the sanitary officers found challenging to unblock on time. The management talked to the pupils who appeared calm as they waited for two pumps which had been donated by First Quantum Minerals. However, due to the delay in the delivery of the pumps, the pupils lost patience and rioted. They smashed window panes to the administration block, classrooms, workshop, sickbay, dining hall and dormitories. Assessment of the damages has been done and the cost will be borne by the pupils.

Mr Speaker, this practice where pupils riot and damage property whenever they aggrieved cannot be tolerated. Learners are hereby strongly advised to use the laid-down procedures to air their grievances. 

In order to address the challenge of riots in secondary schools, the ministry will intensify its drive in the formation of students’ councils in all institutions of learning. Councils will provide a vehicle through which learners can dialogue and resolve issues amicably with management and other parties. The students’ council is an initiative of the Save the Children – Norway which is very active in five districts of the Southern Province. Its pilot work at schools in the Southern Province suggests that it is a possible solution.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now at liberty to ask questions on points of clarification regarding the ministerial statement issued by the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has informed the House that the Zambian students who were beaten up in Russia were not beaten by Russians. Who beat them up?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I indicated that this was not a hate-related crime as there were no Russians involved. There are a number of students who come from the Caucasus area in that region who also study in Russia. It is these students who were working part time as guards at the pub who assaulted the Zambian students.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kazonga (Vubwi): Mr Speaker, according to the hon. Minister’s statement, the Zambian Mission organises an orientation and security induction programme. I would like to know from the hon. Minister whether there is any such programme in place in Zambia and whether it is not possible to have one comprehensive programme before the students leave for Russia, for instance.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, the ministry is aware that these are young men and women going into a foreign land. Therefore, during the interviews for the ministry to pick the best candidates, there is an opportunity to inform the students about the life they will lead in Russia. Besides that, the Bursaries Committee, in the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, has an orientation programme. Additionally, the Russian Federation Embassy in Zambia also organises yet another orientation. 

Mr Speaker, when the students arrive in Russia, they are welcomed by our embassy officials who sit them down to shake off the cultural shock, if there is any. The students in question are second year students who have already finished one year in Russia and have no excuse at all for conducting themselves in this manner. Probably, they have the national culture of drinking, which is also getting out of hand. The Tujilijili story is very rampant. However, His Excellency, Mr Haapunda, has indicated to me that there may be need to send officials at regular intervals to the universities hosting our students.

However, Mr Speaker, I can confirm to this House that, since 2010, this is about the first incident. This is because we intensified the orientation programmes in that year.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that seventy-three pupils were arrested in Chipata in connection with the riots, and yet he stated that all pupils at Chizongwe would be surcharged. May I know why they are surcharging everyone when only seventy-three pupils were arrested.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, before the school authorities work out measures to deal with this problem, all the students will be surcharged. However, it is entirely up to the school to determine who should be surcharged more than the other or who should be left out. They have the statistics and we will give them the benefit of doubt to work this out. I guess, common sense will dictate that only those who were picked up should be surcharged. 

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether, apart from destruction of property, there were any casualties amongst both the police and pupils.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I would have asked what, in particular, the hon. Member is making reference to because I presented three scenarios, but I guess she is asking about Chiwala and Chizongwe. Thank God, we had no casualties amongst the police or pupils.

I thank you, Sir.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, in 2009, there was another incident where Zambian students, in Russia, were attacked in a bar and one of them went missing. His body was found frozen in a river after many months. Therefore, this is not the first time this is happening. There is a record in the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education about Zambian students being attacked in Russia. 

Mr Speaker, is the Government considering having a government-to-government approach to this problem despite the fact that, in this particular case, it is said that it is not the Russians who attacked the Zambian students. In most cases, it is the Russians who attack Zambian students over their women.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, my ministerial statement was very clear. I also indicated that we pay tribute to the Russian Federation for this wonderful gesture, but that does not prevent me from saying whether the Russians were directly involved in the past. I am presenting the case as it was this year, and it indicates that the Russian citizens were not involved at all.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Kalima (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, I tend to think that the problem is not really with the Russians as insinuated by the media. Considering that there was a death of another Zambian student before, can the Government not investigate further just in case it is not the Zambian tujilijili, as stated, that caused this, but that there is a problem with the Russians?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, it is difficult to understand that question. What the hon. Member wants to find out is whether the Russians were involved in the fight. I stated that, this time around, we are not basing our report on speculation, but on reports from the Ambassador of the Republic of Zambia in Russia through a mission he sent to St Petersburg which indicated that our children were at fault because of their drinking habits.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Mufalali (Senanga Central): Mr Speaker, who beat up the Zambian students? What nation do they come from? Caucas is not a nation.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, the report we have is that they were not beaten up by Russians. They were beaten up by students who come from different countries around that region. The specific names of the countries were not revealed to us by His Excellency the Ambassador, but he gave me the assurance that the Russians had nothing to do with this incident. My guess is that the students could be from Ukraine, Uzbekistan and so on and so forth. However, the nationalities were not revealed because this is still a police case.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what happened to the people who beat up our students in Russia. Have they been arrested?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, yes, the four culprits have been arrested. The legal process will begin when the Zambians are discharged from hospital or are out of danger. His Excellency the Ambassador will communicate to us in due course.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Zimba (Kapiri Mposhi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the battering of students in Russia was not new. It had been happening for sometime. Why is this happening only in Russia and not in England and other places? Is there a bad relationship between Russia and Zambia?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I wish I knew the answers. Maybe, some research would reveal the exact position, but Russia is not the same as the United Kingdom. It is a unique country with its own characteristics. Those characteristics may determine why our students behave the way they do when they reach Russia and not behave the same way in any other country. 

Sir, this is food for thought. We will take it up and see whether we can find plausible explanations for the behaviour of our children.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has explained the difficulties that our students face. He said that the Russians pay their tuition fees only while the rest is paid by our Government, and this is expensive. Is it not possible for the Government to assign these students to universities within Zambia instead of spending so much money paying for them in places where they just fight for women?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, this is a good suggestion that they should be recalled so that they fight for women locally here.


Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, yes, the hon. Member of Parliament is right. It is at a great cost that we send these students overseas. For some of them to behave the way they do, is a let down. However, we will continue with the measures to deal with such students, including those who ran away from their colleagues and those who may contemplate doing similar things until we get a satisfactory report on the health of our children. At the moment, our prayers are with these children, stubborn as they may be, but when they are out of danger, we will discuss the matter. 

Sir, the Bursaries Committee, under which they went to Russia, has specific guidelines, rules and regulations which must be obeyed by each student. There is no way we can let the students get away with this because this is an expensive venture.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, concerning the problem at Chiwala, I would like find out what other alternative arrangements were made for five days for the pupils since they were expected to use the toilet, drink water, wash or bath because water is life. If there was nothing, what did the school management expect the pupils to do?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, arrangements were made with the local council to supply water, but the water supplied was inadequate for the big technical secondary school.

Sir, the management was hoping against hope that the pumps that were donated by First Quantum Minerals would arrive before the actual five days. Unfortunately, they took longer.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, if I heard the hon. Minister correctly, he said that some pupils are supposed to meet the cost of the damages which were caused. May I know what punitive measures the ministry is taking towards the school administration at Chizongwe Secondary School which allowed pupils to walk a distance of 8 km at 0100 hours to go to Anoya Zulu Secondary School.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I made it very clear that if investigations reveal that it was due to poor leadership on the part of management and our teachers, corrections will be made. I also made it very clear that it is absurd to allow pupils to cover 8 km in the night to go and attack another school. Definitely, this calls for punitive and corrective measures.

Sir, let me also state that there are institutions, procedures, rules and regulations governing each school. It should not take the hon. Minister of Education, Science and Vocational Training and Early Learning from Lusaka to police the pupils. These rules are in place and they will guide us in reaching a conclusion which will build Chizongwe or Chiwala rather than the chaos that we witnessed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, now, hon. Minister …

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Is that a point of order or what?

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, …

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker:  A point of order is raised.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, is it in order for the hon. Minister to give three scenarios or three statements in one, and for us to ask a question on the other statements we did not ask a question on?  

I seek your ruling, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order! 

The answer is in the negative.

The hon. Member for Chembe may proceed.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, listening to the statement regarding the Russian situation, more so that it took the wisdom of Hon. Mbewe to advise you to inform the nation about this important matter, would it not be a good thing for you, as a Government, to investigate this matter further because you believe in guesswork. Why do you not take time so that you come and inform the nation accurately?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, for the first time, I will receive that free consultancy, …


Dr Phiri: … but let me add that it was not a question of waiting for hon. Mbewe to bring up this issue. He has every right, as a citizen, to ask or wake us up to any issue that we might not have adequately dealt with. I want to applaud Hon. Mbewe for the question he asked although I know that he was asking because, like me, he is an ex-Chizongwe student. However, we will take it up. My statement is not conclusive yet. The students are still in hospital. We have to monitor the situation as it unfolds and we will advise the House if there is an opportunity to do so.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister assure us that, in due course, he will give us the nationalities of the people who assaulted our presidents …


Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I mean the people who assaulted the students, so that we can make diplomatic efforts with those countries to protect the students.


Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I hope the hon. Minister; …


Dr Phiri:… the former hon. Minister, is not very obsessed with the presidency. Yes, we will do exactly as has been proposed by the hon. Member of Parliament.

I thank you, Sir.

Professor Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has informed us that the number of scholarships to study in Russia is on the increase. May I know whether we have an education attaché at the Russian Embassy and, if so, what role the officer plays in counselling and monitoring Zambian students studying in Russia.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, first of all, let me correct the impression that I said that Russian scholarships to Zambian students had increased. What I said is that, from a humble beginning of thirty scholarships in 1966, today, we are at one hundred and the number has remained the same for the last few years. 

Sir, I confirm that there is an education attaché and one thinks loudly that, probably, this position should be at every embassy and high commission of Zambia because the education attaché in the Russian Federation has played a very pivotal role in preparing our students. Maybe, the numbers of casualties would have been higher. I am very happy to report that this education attaché is doing a good job. Immediately this incident took place, His Excellency the Ambassador sent the education attaché to St Petersburg for four days to monitor the situation.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, has there been an adjustment in the selection criterion that is used to select …

Mr Sililo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sililo: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Minister of Health in order to keep quiet over the death of 126 people in Mulobezi Constituency who are believed to have died of malaria, and the fact  that Mulobezi Constituency has run away malaria drugs; …


Mr Sililo: … run out of malaria drugs since January, 2012. 

Mr Speaker: Are you through?

Mr Sililo: To date, nothing has been done and the health centre has stopped admitting patients. 

I need your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! 

I will request the hon. Minister of Health to make a ministerial statement tomorrow.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Kaputa can continue.

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, I was trying to find out whether there has been an adjustment in the selection criterion that is used to select students for Government scholarships for we know that in the previous Government, many people who held influential positions sent their children abroad for school. 

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, we have strengthened the selection procedure. Every candidate is given an opportunity to showcase himself/herself before a panel under the Bursary’s Committee in the Ministry of Education. The idea is to make the selection process as transparent as possible because there were, as the hon. Member of Parliament has mentioned, speculations that the selection was not transparent and that many undeserving candidates managed to sneak through. This far, we have finished using this mechanism to select ninety-five undergraduates and five postgraduate students going to Russia in August/September. We are embarking on a massive selection exercise for Chinese scholarships. The advertisement ran up to last Friday and now the selection process begins. It is cumbersome, but it is worthwhile because we want to give the best of our brains this opportunity to study abroad. 

I thank you, Sir.




273.    Ms Kalima (Kasenengwa) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a)    whether the ministry was aware that four inmates at Mukobeko Maximum Prison in Kabwe died of food poisoning at the beginning of March, 2012 and that six others were still admitted to the University Teaching Hospital;

(b)    if so, who was responsible for the poisoning of the inmates’ food; and

(c)    what measures the ministry intended to take to avoid similar incidents at Mukobeko and other prisons countrywide.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the ministry is not aware of any inmate at Mukobeko Maximum Prison in Kabwe who died of food poisoning at the beginning of March, 2012. However, during the same period, five prisoners from Lusaka Central Prison (Chimbokaila) complained of different problems, namely exhaustion, dizziness and general body weakness. The five were taken to the University Teaching Hospital. Two of them were later admitted while the other three were attended to and discharged. 

Mr Speaker, it is regrettable that the two admissions resulted into deaths on 6th and 16th March, 2012, respectively. 

Sir, according to a post-mortem, the two deceased prisoners were not poisoned by anyone, but died as a result of cerebral oedema and intra-cerebral haemorrhage. The ministry has taken the following short and long-term measures to address the congestion in prisons countrywide:

(i)    transfer prisoners to less congested prisons and open air prison farms;

(ii)    release prisoners on parole;

(iii)    release prisoners on Presidential Amnesty; and 

(iv)    release prisoners on compassionate or medical grounds.

Mr Speaker, in addition to the measures I have just mentioned, the ministry has accelerated the construction of the following additional prisons in the country in 2012:

        Name of Prison                Holding Capacity
Mwembeshi Maximum Prison            600 
Luwingu State Prison                 300 
Kalabo State Prison                 300 
Those to be completed in 2013 are Monze State Prison, Chainama East Prison Hospital, Nyango Prison Farm in Kaoma and Chitumba Prison Farm in Mumbwa. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, we know that prisoners are used as cheap labour for various odd jobs, including farm work. They even go to the extent of handling lethal pesticides such as Aldicarb, an organophosphate, which is so dangerous that a mere grain can kill a person. Can the Government consider restricting the type of jobs that prisoners do, especially on farms because there is the possibility that when working on these farms, a prisoner might poison himself/herself or somebody else?

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Sakeni): Mr Speaker, I am surprised at the question that the hon. Member has asked. The question she asked earlier is totally different from this one. There are no farms near Mukobeko and Lusaka Central prisons. So, her question is totally out of context. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, I wish to take advantage of this very important question asked by the Hon. Member for Kasenengwa to ask m question. 

Mr Speaker, I visited Mukobeko Prison when I was on your Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights and Gender Matters and interacted with some of the inmates. They indicated that the Government is not aware of what is happening to inmates in prisons because no one communicates their complaints to the office of the Hon. Minister. It is true that some inmates died at this prison. Looking at the fact that this new Government promised to do everything in Zambia …


Mr Ntundu: … can the he assure us that he, and no one else, will visit this prison to see for himself what is happening there.  

Mr Sakeni: Mr Speaker, I think that the hon. Member of Parliament is aware that I have visited Chimbokaila Prison. We are not saying that the conditions in the prisons are good. The fact is that they are pathetic. However, we are trying to do everything possible to correct the situation. Those facilities were constructed to hold between 5,000 and 6,000 inmates. Now, we have about 17,000 lock-ups per day. A prisoner is entitled to a space of about 2m², but we cannot meet this criterion. So, we need to work hard, as a Government, and correct the situation. We acknowledge that we need to do the very best.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.  
Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, in his response, the hon. Deputy Minister indicated that five inmates fell ill with dizziness and body pains and, subsequently, two of them died. The post-mortem revealed that the cause of death was cerebral oedema, a swelling of the brain, and intra-cerebral haemorrhage, which is bleeding within the brain matter. What was the cause of the swelling of the brain and the bleeding? Was it a as a result of an infective agent or some form of beating to the head? 

Mr Sakeni: Mr Speaker, although I am not a doctor, I will answer the question from the doctor.
Mr Sakeni: I believe, as I said earlier, that there is too much congestion at Chimbokaila. The place is supposed to hold about 250 to 500 prisoners. Currently, it holds an average of 1,300 prisoners per day. Therefore, if you imagine the congestion, the illnesses may be related to the pathetic conditions.  

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I also want to state that I visited most of these prisons in the country as Chairperson of the Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights and Gender Matters. That said, I would like to find out what the Government is doing to stop the cases of sodomy in prisons that have led to high rates of HIV infections among inmates. 

Mr Sakeni: Mr Speaker, there are sensitisation programmes being undertaken by the civil society when they visit prisons. Even our officers are trying to do their best. The issue of sodomy is, of course, more pronounced in prisons that are very congested. 

Mr Speaker, we are trying to do the very best to make sure that we sensitise the prisoners so that the incidence of HIV/Aids is reduced. 

I thank you, Sir.     

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that it does not necessarily require the presence of farms around for inmates to be taken to work on farms? In the past, I have personally witnessed inmates working at some former hon. Minister’s farm, building what was once a famous mansion in Lusaka West when there was no prison around that area, meaning that they were brought from somewhere. Is he aware that inmates can be transported to work at farms far from the vicinity of their prison?

Mr Sakeni: Mr Speaker, sometimes, prisoners are hired at a fee.  

Hon. UPND Members: Are you aware?
Mr Sakeni: I am aware that such things used to happen. However, so far, in my Government, I have not come across it. 

I thank you, Sir.
Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Mr Speaker, an organophosphate is the pesticide that was detected in the poisoning. What measures has the ministry taken to protect prisoners who work on farms? For instance, in Kafulafuta Parliamentary Constituency, there are 200 prisoners and we have seen them working on farms in Masaiti District. 

Mr Sakeni: Mr Speaker, I have already answered the question about prisoners who work at outdoor prisons or farms. That is a totally new question. I believe that the principal question was about the prisoners who died at Mukobeko Maximum Prison where prisoners do not even work on farms. 

I thank you, Sir.

274. Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication when the ministry would clear the canal from Mongu Harbour to the Zambezi River.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mwenya): Mr Speaker, the ministry procured two dredgers last year which were sent to Luapula and Western provinces. The dredger sent to Mongu started with the clearing of Mulamba Harbour area and then passed through the Nabubela Canal right up to the Zambezi River.

The dredger has also worked on the 10 km canal between Zambezi River and Namushakende. Currently, the dredger is working on the Nayuma/Nalitoya Canal which is between Lealui and Limulungu. The Nabubela Canal, which connects the harbour to the Zambezi River, was worked on sometime in February this year.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.{mospagebreak}


275. Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe) asked the Minister of Health:

(a)    which contractor had been engaged to construct the Milenge District Hospital;

(b)    whether the Government was satisfied with the pace at which construction works were being undertaken;

(c)    if not, what measures were being taken to speed up the process; and

(d)    when the hospital would be completed and opened to the public.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Chikusu): Mr Speaker, the House may wish to know that due to limitations in the resource envelope, the Government, through the Ministry of Health, has adopted a three-phase approach towards the construction of new first level hospitals in nineteen districts which include Milenge District. The construction of Phase 1 of Milenge District Hospital was awarded to Mwasika Construction Limited and is worth K4,211,208,320.00. Phase I consists of the construction of the maternity block, service block, x-ray room and theatre. Phase II consists of the construction of male wards, the out-patient department, administration, mortuary, incinerator and related external works. Phase III consists of the construction of female and children’s wards, ten staff houses and external works.

Sir, the Government is not satisfied with the pace at which the construction works have been progressing for Phase I of Milenge District Hospital by Mwasika Construction Limited. The contract was awarded to Mwasika Construction Limited in November, 2010 and was expected to be completed in November, 2011.

Mr Speaker, as indicated earlier, the Government is not satisfied with the pace at which the construction works have been progressing for Phase I of Milenge District Hospital by Mwasika Construction Limited. The construction company has now put in place measures to ensure that there is no further delay in the completion of Phase I of the hospital. The contractor has since been warned of the Government’s intention to deduct liquidation damages as a result of the delayed completion of the works.

The hospital will be completed and opened to the public upon completion of phases I, II and III. Currently, Phase I consisting of x-ray, theatre, service block and maternity block is under construction. The Government, through the Ministry of Health, intends to commence the procurement of Phase II works which consist of the construction of male wards, an out-patient department, the administration, mortuary, incinerator and related external works between April and June 2012. Phase III consisting of the construction of female and children wards, ten staff houses and external works is projected to be completed in 2014.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima: Hon. Minister, …

Mr Mbewe: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kambwili: Tom and Jerry!

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. I rarely stand on points of order.

Ms Sayifwanda: Hear, hear! He is very right!

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, is the first hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs in the PF Government, now Minister of Youth and Sport without Labour, who has been very robust in this House, in order to be quiet, maybe, because the restaurant at Parliament Buildings does not serve monkey meat? I am not worried that the restaurant does not serve monkey meat. Is Hon. Kambwili in order to ignore all the matters before this House by choosing to remain extremely quiet? 


Mr Mbewe: Sir, I have tried to consult Hon. Colonel Panji Kaunda to give me the answer, but to no avail. 


Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I am concerned. Is the hon. Minister in order to keep us guessing where his direction is? I need your serious ruling.


Mr Speaker: I am not too sure whether I should reserve my ruling.


Mr Speaker: Perhaps, given the fact that the House is rising tomorrow, it may not be advisable to reserve my ruling. Thus, I wish to urge him to consult the hon. Member in question. 

May the hon. Member of Parliament for Chembe continue, please.


Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, taking into account that Phase I should have been completed in November and that an extension to its deadline has been given failure to which we might claim liquation damages, can the hon. Minister tell us the new deadline so that we can together monitor the progress.

The Minister of Health (Dr Kasonde): Mr Speaker, as the hon. Deputy Minister said, the ministry has been very concerned about the delay in the completion of this project and, therefore, has asked the contractor to accelerate the pace of the works. We are quite clear that there are two parts to the process, the tendering and the construction. In this case, and several other cases, it has been the construction part which has been delaying progress. We are aware that the same contractor, upon being seriously warned, did improve the performance at the site of another institution which is not very far from the hospital project.

We believe that the same will occur in this case. The contractor will speed up the construction works. Secondly, when the tenders are announced for the following phase, it will be on the understanding that there is a specific period during which the works under the preceding phase should be concluded. For the moment, I believe that these measures should result in speeding up the process so that the works are completed within the time frame which we all desire.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, we have been informed that the three-phased approach is being employed in the construction of the district hospitals, with the first phase being the construction of a maternity wing, x-ray unit, theatre block and service block. That is when we now move to the second phase which involves the wards, outpatient department, mortuary and so on and so forth. Would the hon. Minister not agree that it makes more sense to realign this phasing approach so that we would start with the outpatient department before moving to the specialised departments of the hospital.

Dr Kasonde: Sir, as usual, my interest in history is very controlled and it would not be my desire …


Dr Kasonde: … to pursue serious historical studies on the rationale for the phasing of these contracts. What I have stated is that there were nineteen institutions involved when the decision was made to use a phased approach. We are following that approach only as far as those institutions that were agreed upon are concerned. As for the future, it is certainly my intention to relook at the order in which the parts of the institutions are constructed. I also intend to establish ways in which speed can be increased in the construction of health institutions. 

I thank you, Sir.


276. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a)    how many housing units were disposed of countrywide, during the sale of council houses programme;
(b)    of the houses sold, how many were fully paid for as of December, 2011;

(c)    whether councils still had houses for rent to the public; and

(d)    if so, what the names of such councils were and, what the total number of the housing units was.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Masumba): Mr Speaker, from the information received from forty-nine councils, a total of 52,441 housing units were disposed of during the sale of council houses. The ministry will provide information on the remaining twenty-three councils in due course. A total of 52,369 housing units were fully paid for, out of the total sale of 52,411 as at December, 2011 from the forty-nine councils. A total of 219 housing units are currently on rent to the public. The following councils have housing units for rent:

    Council        Housing Units

Chibombo          2
    Serenje              6
    Kabwe              1
    Kalulushi          4
    Kitwe                                  89
    Mufulira        21
    Luanshya            6
Chadiza             4
Petauke                                3
Mambwe                            17
Chongwe         5
Kafue         2
Lusaka                                11
Kalabo          4
Mongu          1
Sesheke          1
Luwingu          2
Mungwi          2
Chilubi                               12
Chinsali         9
Nakonde         6
Kabompo         2
Kalomo         3
Monze         6
Total                                219

Hon. Member, you are looking at me?


Mr Masumba: I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Katuka: Mr Speaker, does the Government have any plans to construct or help councils to construct more houses for rent?

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Professor Luo): Mr Speaker, in fact, the ministry is working around the clock on that matter. We have put together a strategy for the construction of new housing units throughout Zambia which we expect the Government and the private sector to buy into. Our housing stock deficit stands at between 2 million and 3 million housing units. We shall announce to the nation when we begin the implementation of this programme. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Ntundu: Sir, the people who bought houses from the councils have had difficulties in acquiring titles so that they can claim full ownership of the houses. 

The hon. Minister is looking somewhere else.


Mr Speaker: Just pose your question. Whether she is looking at you or not is neither here nor there.


Mr Ntundu: Sir, now that there is a new Government and the hon. Minister has heard that people who bought these houses have had difficulties in claiming full ownership of the houses, can I hear from her what the PF policy on this matter is. Is the Government going to give these people title deeds shortly or when is it going to ensure that the people can claim full ownership of these houses?

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament who asked this question may wish to consult Hon. Kalila to find out that you do not actually listen with your eyes, but with your ears.


Professor Luo: So, whether I am looking away or not, my ears are listening.


Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, in reference to the question, even we, as a ministry, have been very concerned with the fact that title deeds are not being given out. Not giving out title deeds has very serious implications on our resource connection, as a ministry, through our councils. So, we are very keen to ensure that all the people who own these properties have title deeds. To this effect, all the councils have been directed to audit all the houses and assets that have been sold after which we shall expedite our co-operation with the Ministry of Lands, Energy and Water Development that is tasked with the authority to provide title deeds to ensure that people have title deeds within the shortest time.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has informed this House that there is a shortage of houses. What has happened with the council house bonds which were announced in this House by the then Minister of Local Government and Housing who wanted to ensure that the building project is implemented quickly?

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, I was appointed Minister in October, 2011. So, I cannot answer for what another hon. Minister announced. However, the ministry is putting in place a robust strategy that will look at how low, medium as well as high cost housing units will be built. The ministry is also restructuring the National Housing Authority (NHA) so that it does not become a Lusaka Housing Authority just for the upper class, but an institution that will respond to the housing deficit in the country. To this effect, even the positions that are in the NHA are being restructured to respond to the desires of the institution.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mulusa (Solwezi Central): Mr Speaker, I am happy to note that the backlog of the housing stock is well known by the Government and that there is a strategy to be put in place. Will this strategy involve the Government or municipalities constructing the houses or will it involve the establishment of a development financing institution directed at giving out concessional lending to people to build the houses?

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, I cannot share the details with the public at this stage. However, in a nutshell, I can say that we are not only using one approach, but several. It will involve the Government, councils, the private sector and Zambians in the Diaspora.

I thank you, Sir.

277. Dr Kazonga (Vubwi) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education how many researchers and research institutions benefited from the Strategic Research Fund in 2010 and 2011 in the following fields:

(a)    agriculture;

(b)    health; and

(c)    engineering.

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Professor Willombe): Mr Speaker, the Government of the Republic of Zambia, through the then Ministry of Education, Science and Vocational Training, established a research funding mechanism called the Strategic Research Fund (SRF) in 2006 aimed at promoting scientific research activities in order to enhance the development and application of science and technology in the country. Since inception, various research institutions and researchers have received funding from the SRF and research projects which continue to receive support at various stages of development. 

In 2010 and 2011 the following research projects were funded:

(i)    seven projects from which seven researchers and four institutions benefited in agriculture;

(ii)    five projects where five researchers and three institutions benefited in engineering; and

(iii)    four projects where five researchers and three institutions benefited at various stages of the research in health.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.


278. Mr M. B. Mwale (Malambo) asked the Vice-President:

(a)    how many District Commissioners (DCs) were appointed to serve in the Eastern Province after 20th September, 2011;

(b)    of those appointed, how many had their contracts terminated; and

(c)    what the reasons for the termination of the contracts were.

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr E. C. Lungu): Mr Speaker, a total of eight DCs were appointed to serve in the Eastern Province after 20th September, 2011.

No DC had their contracts terminated, but were merely reverted to their substantive positions as they were all on permanent and pensionable establishment.

Since there were no contracts terminated, therefore, the reasons for the termination of contracts do not arise.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, may I learn from the Vice-President whether or not the campaign promise of depoliticising the Civil Service by the PF before the 2011 Elections was merely a campaign strategy meant to deceive the Zambian electorate, considering ...


Mr M. B. Mwale:  Efyo mwabela ku gona kuzingwa.

Mr Speaker: Order! 

The hon. Member should not engage others, but the Chair.

You may continue.


Mr M. B. Mwale: Thank you, Sir. 

... that DCS appointed from the mainstream Civil Service were replaced with PF district and provincial party leaders in districts such as Nyimba, Petauke, Vubwi, Katete and Lundazi.

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, these are instances with anecdotal evidence. There are almost a hundred districts in Zambia and we have just been given an example of four without the names or proof that anyone was a party cadre. Therefore, it is impossible to answer that question.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, I am surprised to hear that the DCs in the Eastern Province were never fired, but merely redeployed to their substantive positions. In the North-Western Province, the DCs who were previously civil servants were all fired and have not been paid their terminal benefits. What criterion was used to fire those in the North-Western Province when their colleagues were redeployed? 

Secondly, why have they not been paid?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, that is a completely different question involving a completely different province.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, the DCs in the Eastern Province have not been redeployed. They are still in suspense. These were degree holders who are professionals and have been replaced with people with grade 7 and 9 levels of education. Is it the Government’s intention to frustrate the Deputy Directors who are well qualified degree holders by reporting to people with grade 9 level of education? Is the Government being fair?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I do not recognise the allegations that seem to be upsetting the hon. Member as the PF’s policy.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister in the Office of the Vice-President has clearly stated that no one had his/her services terminated. In the situation where the civil servants …

Mr Kambwili: On a point of order, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Member: Welcome back.


Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, Parliamentary etiquette demands that everything that we state in this House must be nothing, but the truth. There has never been any grade 9 employed as Permanent Secretary or DC. Is the hon. Member of Parliament for Kasenengwa in order to mislead the House and the nation by saying that there are people with grade 9 level of education who have been employed by the PF Government without brining any evidence whatsoever? 

Mr Speaker, in the previous Parliament, two hon. Members of Parliament were admonished for issuing statements that they could not substantiate. Is the hon. Member for Kasenengwa in order to mislead the nation and this House on that issue? 

I need your serious ruling, Sir. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Given the nature of the point of order, and in the absence of any evidence on which the Speaker can rely, it is not possible to say whether the hon. Member for Kasenengwa is or not in order. Nonetheless, what I can remind the House at large, is that it is important to be factual in our submissions to avoid speculation.

 I, therefore, would like to stress that, as a matter of principle, all debates should be well informed, substantiated and supported by facts. However, in the absence of evidence, I cannot say whether or not the hon. Member for Kasenengwa is or not out of order.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: In that case, where the people …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, is the Government in order to mislead the House by saying that there are no specific qualifications pertaining to the appointment of DCs? This House, has, on a number of occasions, been informed that they are not in a position to tell the House the qualifications pertaining to the office of DC. Is the Government in order to raise a point of order on the qualifications of DCs when they do not know the qualifications for appointment to that position? 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Unfortunately, the hon. Member for Monze Central has just adverted to one of the proscriptions I made in the recent past, namely that there cannot be a point of order on a point of order. That is the ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, since the former DCs have not been fired, what is the Government going to do when they go back to their offices and find that their positions have been taken up by other people and they just have to hang around?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, these people were redeployed quite soon after appointment. I am only guessing because I do not have definite information that in most cases they found their substantive positions still vacant.


The Vice-President:  If not, it is also normal in the Civil Service to move people around. I do not really understand the hon. Member’s thrust.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Member: The Vice-President is guessing.


Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, we have just been informed that the DCs in the North-Western Province who were fired have not been paid to date. May I know when they will be paid and whether we have a criterion in place for paying the affected DCs.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, that is just a repetition of the new question that we got about the North-Western Province which, I am afraid, does not pertain to the substantive question. Friday is a special day and you can ask me anything you want.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!





The Minister of Justice (Mr S. S. Zulu): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Mr Speaker, corruption is universal and it exists in both developed and developing countries. In the public and private sectors, corruption has been around for a long time and has affected all parts of the world, including Zambia. It continues to be one of the greatest factors of poverty and underdevelopment. Corruption posses a serious developmental challenge as it undermines democracy and good governance by subverting formal processes. It also undermines economic development by causing considerable distortions and inefficiency in the provision of goods and services and decision making.

Mr Speaker, the Anti-Corruption Bill, 2012 is, accordingly, …


Mr Speaker: Let us have some silence, please.

Mr S. S. Zulu: … presented before this honourable House. The Bill is an attestation that corruption, in whichever form, shall not be tolerated.

Sir, Zambia is part of the international community and has signed, ratified and acceded to various international instruments that seek to combat corruption. These are the United Nations Convention Against Corruption (UNCAC), the African Union Convention on Preventing and Combating Corruption and the Southern African Development Community Protocol against Corruption.

Mr Speaker, the Bill, therefore, seeks to domesticate the international instruments that Zambia is a party to so as to comply with the international standards and obligations.

Sir, the Anti-Corruption Bill seeks to continue the existence of the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) and provide for its powers and functions. The Bill guarantees the security of tenure of the Office of the Director-General and specifies the procedure for the removal of the office bearer. This enhances the independence of the Commission as it will allow office bearers to discharge their duties without fear of being removed from office.

Mr Speaker, the Bill has reintroduced the offences on abuse of authority of office and has broadened the scope of the offence by outlining additional instances of what constitutes abuse of authority of office. Further, the Bill also outlines certain matters that do not constitute a defence in any proceedings for an offence of corruption where it is proved that the accused person accepted any gratification, believing or suspecting that the gratification was given as an inducement or reward for doing or not doing any act. The Bill also makes it mandatory to suspend a public officer charged with corruption and to dismiss an officer convicted of corruption.

Sir, this is a clear indication that the fight against corruption has been intensified and corruption by public officers will not be tolerated.

Mr Speaker, a corrupt act can cause a victim of corruption to suffer loss or damage. The Bill seeks to redress the loss or damage suffered by the victim of corruption. A person who does anything that constitutes corruption is liable to any person or victim who suffers loss or damage to pay full compensation for the loss or damage suffered by the person or victim. The Bill has also given the court power, on its own motion or upon an application by a person who suffers damage in addition to any punishment which it may impose in respect of any offence under the Bill. The court may order the person convicted of a corruption offence to pay appropriate compensation to any person for damage suffered as a result of an act of corruption.

Sir, the Bill further criminalises possession of unexplained property by the public officers who maintain a standard of living above that which is commensurate with the public officers’ present or past official emoluments or other income. This enhances the fight against corruption as it encourages transparency and accountability by public officers in their discharge of duties.

Mr Speaker, the fight against corruption can be achieved through various ways and one of the effective ways is through the enhancement of the sentencing powers so as to deter would-be offenders. The Bill, therefore, seeks to enhance the sentencing powers from ten years, which is currently existing under the current Act, to fourteen years. This will not only punish, but also deter would-be offenders from engaging in corrupt practices.

Sir, as an additional deterrent measure, the Bill provides for publishing of names, in the gazette, of persons who have been convicted of corruption or who have admitted guilt to an offence under the Act in a particular year.

Mr Speaker, the UNCAC emphasises public participation as one of the ways of fighting corruption. The fight against corruption cannot be won without citizen’s support, participation and vigilance. The public plays a crucial role in fostering public discussion of corruption and increasing awareness about the negative impact of corruption.

Sir, to comply with the requirements of the convention, the Bill provides for public participation in the fight against corruption and it recognises the importance of access to information. The Bill also recognises the important role civil society organisations play in combating corruption.

Mr Speaker, this Bill will intensify the fight against corruption. It is progressive and I, therefore, urge the hon. Members of this August House to support it.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. MMD Members: Question!


Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, it is always a pleasure to speak after a learned colleague such as the one who has spoken in support of this particular Bill.

Sir, your Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights, Gender Matters and Child Affairs was tasked to scruitinise the Anti-Corruption Bill, 2012. I now have the privilege to highlight a few issues contained in your Committee’s Report which was laid on the Table of the House on Thursday, 22nd March, 2012.

Mr Speaker, the House will be interested to know that all the stakeholders who appeared before your Committee generally supported the Bill, but raised a few concerns which have been highlighted in the Committee’s Report. They noted that just over a year ago, they were invited to make submissions on a similar Bill, the Anti-Corruption Bill, 2010, which subsequently led to the passing of the Anti-Corruption Act No. 39 of 2010.  

Sir, a comparison undertaken by the stakeholders between the Anti-Corruption Act, No. 38 of 2010 and the Anti-Corruption Bill, 2012 which seeks inter-alia to repeal the Act, reveals that the Bill is much broader and better couched as it seeks to domesticate international and regional instruments on corruption to which Zambia is a state party. The Bill also incorporates most of the concerns that were raised by the stakeholders in 2010, when its predecessor was being considered, which led to the enactment of the current Act. 

Mr Speaker, your Committee agrees with the stakeholders and commends itself and the Government for the step it has taken to bring this particular Bill to Parliament. The House will also be interested to note that the Bill seeks to reintroduce the offence of abuse of office which was removed from the Anti-Corruption Commission Act, No. 42 of 1996. The said offence has been broadened and is well elaborated as it captures all the key ingredients that define abuse of authority in line with Article 19 of the UNCAC.

Mr Speaker, further, the Bill has also reinstated the offence of possession of unexplained property which was similarly removed from the 1996 Act.

Sir, while all the stakeholders applauded these progressive provisions, concern was raised by some of them on the constitutionality of the provisions pertaining to Articles 21 and 22. Although counter arguments were advanced, we urge the Government to redraft these good clauses so that, in future, they are not challenged in the courts of law as being unconstitutional. 

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I would like to express my gratitude to you for the opportunity given to your Committee to scrutinise this Bill. Gratitude is also extended to the stakeholders who gave both written and oral submissions which greatly assisted your Committee in its work. Last, but not the least, I would like to thank the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the services rendered to your Committee throughout its deliberations.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, this is a national Bill and I am happy to say that it has the support from a cross section of society. From the outset, I want to state that the position of my party, which brought me to Parliament, is that it is in support of the reinstatement of the abuse of authority of office clause …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: … in the Anti-Corruption Commission Bill. This was our position before, it is now and will be in future. Even when this particular clause was removed, we stood together with the progressive forces in this country to oppose the removal of this clause from the Anti-Corruption Act. 

Mr Speaker, I want to take advantage of this opportunity to put the issues in context. The drama surrounding the debate on anti-corruption, especially the Abuse of Authority of Office Clause, is as a result of a defect in the political system in our country. That is called party whipping. Party whipping is a danger to our young democracy in Africa. Party whipping is where members are forced to toe a party line without consultation just because one or two people believe that it must be done that way. That is not correct. 

Mr Speaker, you will find that when my colleagues in the MMD stand to debate on this Bill, they will support the reinstatement of this particular clause. This is because they had no exhaustive debate in their party caucuses. This mistake is being committed in all parties, including the party in Government at the moment. Many positions are basically views of one or two people and the whole party is forced to follow them. Party whipping is a danger to our young democracy in Africa. Political parties must rise above this defect. We need to debate these issues at our party caucuses before a conclusion is arrived at so that we all move with a collective point of view and not where people are just told that this is coming to Parliament and that they should support it. This is advice to all political parties and not only the MMD. I am happy that, in my political party, we had extensive debate on this issue before and at the time when this Bill was coming to the House. In future, we will continue to debate at the party level before we come to Parliament. A party is made up of many people who must agree on one point at the party caucuses. This is a lesson that everyone must learn from. 

Mr Speaker, we must all agree, and I think we do, that corruption is a cancer. The fight against corruption is not one for a political party, especially here in Zambia. After all, people here have been moving from one party to the other. Therefore, no political party can say, “it is our fight.” If you say that the MMD failed, you also failed because, a few years ago, you were in the MMD.   

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, all of us want to be involved in the fight against corruption.  A sectional fight against corruption will never win us this war. The fight against corruption must be a national one, not a party or sectional issue. Today, you will be in the Government and tomorrow you will be out. This is how life is. However, we must all move towards a particular direction that is good for the nation. Regardless of who is in power, we must agree, across parties, on issues such as this one.  

Mr Speaker, corruption is a cancer and I think my colleagues will highlight some of the issues concerning corruption. Corruption robs our citizens of the rightful services and compromises the quality of our services. It increases the cost of doing business in the country because of the corruption cut in every deal. It has also dented the image of this country. The earlier we agree to fight corruption and win the war, the better for all of us. This continuous talk about Zambia being corrupt is not good for us because the world is laughing at us. The faster we move, the better. There must be no “holier than thou” in the fight against corruption, especially that we know each other very well. We know about the association to corruption of those who were and are in the Government. 

Mr Speaker, when I was at St Canisius Secondary School in the early 1980’s, I attended the first anti-corruption talk in 1985 or so. I want to draw a lesson from what happened there. During a presentation by the ACC, a point was made that the ACC was working hand-in-hand with the police to fight corruption. One pupil asked, “Are you saying you are working with the police?” and they said, “Yes.”  The pupil said, “Then, I am disappointed because our perception is that the police are the most corrupt people. How can you fight corruption using the police which we perceive to be corrupt?” This is how complex the fight against corruption is. I think that friend of ours had something for us to learn from. This is not an easy fight, but a complicated one. The fight against corruption should be sophisticated and that is why it needs a broader ownership. 

Mr Speaker, there was a change of Government in 1991. I remember that the late Mr Baldwin Nkumbula was the first to resign from Cabinet, citing corrupt tendencies. Some high profile Government officials called him childish. Later, Mr Akashambatwa Mbikusita Lewanika and Mrs Inonge Wina also resigned. Later, Mr Mwanawasa, who had initially advised Mr Nkumbula not to resign, did so himself, complaining of serious corruption that had set in in the governance of the country. You must bear in mind that the MMD is punctuated by two regimes. There is the first MMD and second. In the first ten years of the party, corruption ran deep in our society. Later, when Mr Mwanawasa came into office, he put up a rigorous fight against corruption  

Mr Speaker, corruption is, actually, more prevalent in public offices. The Bill before us is very appropriate to the fight against corruption. Reinstating this clause and actually enforcing it will enable us to manage the fight against corruption and stop it earlier than otherwise.  

Mr Speaker, the fight against corruption must be holistic. All stakeholders, including hon. Members of Parliament from the UPND, the PF and the MMD, do not want corruption in the country. That is why we are calling upon the PF Government to involve everybody, not just stand by and claim to be the champions. All of us must be champions so that this scourge is fought. Currently, the impression of many people who have not been to this country is that we are a very corrupt people. This is because the fight against corruption is not being handled professionally. Pronouncements are being made by a handful of people, resulting in big headlines on small issues. There may be corruption on small issues that I will not mention, but the impact of the pronouncement on the country is quite negative. We must, therefore, be mindful about what we say in fighting corruption. The fight must be left to professionals. We must strengthen the ACC and fight it within the ranks of law enforcement agencies, such as the police. These must be seen to be first against corruption. We cannot clean a dirty place with a dirty broom because we might leave more dirt than we found.

Sir, the Government must take a holistic view and involve everybody. In fact, if we are to fight corruption effectively, we should have a truth commission because many people who are corrupt have not been caught yet. I can tell you that some of the people who are being pursued for corruption are probably small fish. The bigger fish pointing fingers may be the corrupt ones. If we think that corruption has become very serious, we can constitute a truth commission where people can go to own up and, after the sitting of the commission, we can open a new page. Anyone who may not have come before the truth commission will have no excuse. The earlier we clean up our society and have a thorough approach, the better for all of us. 

Mr Speaker, values, morals and integrity must be taught in our schools. The ACC, apart from following up high-profile cases, must take the issue of education seriously, right from primary schools. Our people must learn values, morals and integrity if we are to be a great nation in the future. We must also innovate and, perhaps, have a subject that teaches values, morals and integrity in our schools so that we can grow a very responsible generation in our country. This is the best surety for the future.

Sir, in the Vision 2030, I think that we must include an undertaking to grow a particular population of our people that will really be against corruption and have high levels of integrity and morality. Our people must be taught this because corruption is everywhere. There is corruption in the Central Government, in provinces, in districts and villages where, initially, there was none. We need to take decisive steps to fight this corruption. Otherwise, our country will not move forward. 

Mr Speaker, there has been a complaint that with the impressive macroeconomic indicators, the welfare of our people is not improving because of corruption. The people are getting fake goods and services because of corruption. There is so mush corruption along the conveyer belt, resulting in our people receiving nothing. Our people are now faced with poor buildings, roads and services in clinics and schools because of corruption, not because the Government is not apportioning money for such projects, but because the delivery system has been infected by corruption. Corruption, therefore, must be fought and we must put in place a permanent measure to fight it. One way is education. The ACC must have a strong outreach education programme on corruption and the socio-economic cost to society. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, my last point is on leadership. I am happy that this particular Bill, specifically the clause, addresses public officials. Having read it, I now know that there is no regime that I know of that has not been guilty of abuse of authority of office. The United National Independence Party (UNIP), the MMD Governments and the PF Government, in the six months it has been in office, are guilty …
Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Hamududu: … of a lot of abuse of authority of office. 


Mr Hamududu: You read the Bill. 

Sometimes, you fire people from the Civil Service simply because you want to replace them with PF party members. That is abuse of office. The Civil Service is non-partisan. You cannot put party officials in the Civil Service. The Civil Service is for Zambians. The PF Government is doing the same thing that the MMD Government did in 1991 when it got rid of the best professionals. This is why we are where we are. Currently, you are compromising the office of the Permanent Secretary by putting people who are not capable of running ministries. You should look forward to the Auditor-General’s Report for 2012. I want to see the effect of your first six months on the Auditor-General’s Report because of appointing people who are not qualified for particular positions because they are party members. There are party positions of welcoming people in embassies that you can give. 


Mr Hamududu: Professional jobs must be given to qualified Zambians. There must be no politics in the Civil Service. We have heard people say that they will get rid of non-PF members in the Civil Service. This is destroying the Civil Service. You are repeating the mistakes that the first MMD made. 

Mr Hamududu: Please, do not do that.

Mr Speaker, I attended the funeral of the late Dr Chivuno, may his soul rest in peace. He was an ambassador in Italy, I think, but was later dropped. He came back to Zambia, but could not get any job. However, the Namibian Government employed him and he became one of their best planners and established the Namibian Planning Commission. When he died, the then Prime Minister, Hage Geingob, said he was shocked that Dr Chivuno could not get a job in Zambia. As a result of his input, Namibia has better development plans than we have. You remove professionals and bring in cadres. Do not compromise the Civil Service. This is tantamount to abuse of authority of office. 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear! 

Mr Hamududu: Finally, Sir, leaders must lead by example. 

On Saturday, when I went to Church, I got a lesson from my pastor who said that the nation can never rise above its leaders. We must be exemplary. If we are corrupt, the country will be more corrupt. So, we must set an example … 

Mr Mulomba: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mulomba: Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to raise this point of order. Is the hon. Member now debating on the Floor of this House in order to refer to the first MMD as being corrupt without specifying those who were corrupt, considering that the current President, Mr Michael Sata, and the Vice-President were members of the MMD then? Is he in order?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Speaker: Order!

It would appear this problem will be with us for some time to come, but we should continue trying to check it. Maybe, it is just as deep as the problem we are discussing this afternoon.


Mr Speaker: It is not in order to use points of order to debate. If you have a contribution to make, please, ask for your turn. I appreciate that this is a very topical issue and, in some way, it is also a very emotive one. In fairness to everybody, let us not interject unnecessarily. We need to use the time available as efficiently and effectively as possible. This House is scheduled to rise tomorrow. So, if we have to raise points of order, please, bear in mind the jurisprudence relating to points of order.


Mr Speaker: May the hon. Member continue, please.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, I was winding up my debate.

Sir, a nation cannot rise above its leadership. That is what I learnt at church on Saturday and I believe that we, the leaders, must lead an exemplary life in office.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: We must promote the highest values, morals and integrity.

Sir, I am happy that this Government has brought back this clause. It is more about the leaders, and all of us by extension. We will be following this very closely. Therefore, the Government must enforce this law to the letter. If someone wants to be rich in the Government, they must resign because they will not succeed with this clause in place. Leadership is for rendering a service and not making money. If you want to make money, go and become marketing manager and you will make a lot of money.

Mr Speaker, the fight against corruption must not divide the nation, especially if we become sectional and begin to target political opponents. It is better to target corrupt people, whether they are in the PF, the UPND or the MMD. If you divide the nation, my colleagues, it is very difficult and expensive to reunite it. Please, the decision that we make should not be tantamount to abuse of authority of office. Just because you are an hon. Minister or Head of State, it does not mean that you can do something without consulting people. For example, re-aligning boundaries and making new districts ...

Mr Mwila: Awee!


Mr Hamududu: That is not right!

With these few words, Mr Speaker, I wish to say that I support this Bill without any reservations whatsoever.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Apollo!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Kazabu (Nkana): Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Motion on the Floor of the House. From the outset, let me state that the decision by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government to repeal and replace the Anti-Corruption Act No. 38 of 2010, is an act of patriotism and responsibility, not a search for vengeance against anyone for some wrong done as it has been claimed in some circles.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, in supporting the Motion, I have been motivated by the following six reasons:

(i)    the enhanced and progressive provisions of the Bill;

(ii)    the deprivation of the majority of our people;

(iii)    the protection of national resources for development;

(iv)    moral obligation;

(v)    the implementation of the PF Manifesto and fulfilment of election campaign promises; and

(vi)    a continental and global duty.

Mr Livune: Question!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kazabu: Sir, let me now explain each of the six reasons as a way of fortifying my support for the Bill.

Mr Speaker, I wish to say that the Bill is a great and progressive effort on our part, as a nation, in striving to be in conformity with the UNCAC, the African Union (AU) Convention on Preventing and Combating Corruption and Southern African Development Community (SADC) Protocol against Corruption. 

Just to give an example, Section 3 of the Bill, has expanded the interpretation and definition of corrupt to include misuse or abuse of public office for private advantage or benefit. There are several other progressive provisions, some of which have already been referred to by the Chairperson of the Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights and Gender Matters.

Sir, it is an undeniable fact that the majority of our people have, over the years, been denied a meaningful standard of living and quality of life. To a large extent, this situation can be attributed to corruption, recklessness and heartlessness on the part of some of our past political leaders and public servants.

The deprivation of the majority of our people is manifested, among other features, by the poverty of most of our people some of whom cannot even afford a meal in a day. Our people have also been made to live under conditions that are not suitable for human beings. They live in slums and under structures that are not fit for human habitation. 

There is also the problem of limited school places at all levels of the education strata, resulting in many children of a school going age not being able to enter the education system. On the other hand, many of those who enter the system are offloaded as they progress to the top before realising their dreams.

Sir, the need to protect national resources by those who are given the rare opportunity to manage public affairs from any manner of abuse cannot be overemphasised. The governed give so much power to their leaders and public servants in the hope that the quality of their lives will be improved. The leaders are required to prudently and honestly harness and utilise the resources for the soci-economic good of all. Therefore, the proposed Anti-Corruption Bill, 2012 will be a useful instrument in protecting our national resources, both financial and material, from the selfish and evil deeds of those amongst us who are bent on abusing such resources and lining their pockets much to the disadvantage of the majority. The Bill will also serve as a deterrent to those who want to engage in corruption.

Sir, I consider this Bill absolutely desirable, bearing in mind that in the past, our country suffered serious financial hemorrhage because of corruption. To illustrate a point, Transparency International Zambia (TIZ), in its book entitled Show Me the Money, has revealed that:

“No one knows exactly how much Zambian public money has been stolen or misapplied since 1964. Not even the Auditor-General’s office which has the constitutional mandate to check on Government expenditure. However, it is estimated that about K348.244 billion public monies are either misappropriated, stolen or grossly mismanaged every year. If you take a period of ten years, 1994 to 2004, a total sum of K6.964 trillion was abused or stolen.”

TIZ further revealed that the Auditor-General’s report for the financial year ended 31st December, 2004, showed that cashiers at the Passport Office in Kabwe stole K26 million and failed to account for another K78.9 million.

Mr Speaker, as Parliamentarians, we, individually and collectively, have a moral obligation to protect and serve the interest of mother Zambia and her people by enacting laws which will enable us, as a nation, to fight the scourge of corruption and any other vice akin to the preservation of resources for development. That is one of the reasons all hon. Members of this House should support this Bill.

Mr Speaker, allow me to also talk about the implementation of the PF Manifesto and fulfillment of election campaign promises.

Mr Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Kazabu: The PF Manifesto on good governance and public service reforms, among other issues, talks about fighting corruption. It is also on record that during the recent tripartite elections, we, in the PF, promised the people of our great country that once elected into office, we would reinstate the abuse of authority of office clause in the Anti-Corruption Act …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Kazabu: … in order to vigorously fight corruption and restore public confidence in the ACC. Therefore, the Anti-Corruption Bill, 2012 is in line with our manifesto. It is also affirmative action intended to fulfill our campaign promise.

Mr Speaker, as a nation in general and Parliament in particular, we are an integral part of the continental and global community. Any vice that undermines the interest and aspirations of the peoples of the continental and global community by taking away resources meant for development is likely to have a bearing on our interests and aspirations as Zambians. Corruption is one such vice. Clearly, we have a continental and global duty to contribute to the robust fight against corruption. The Anti-Corruption Bill, 2012 is a practical measure in that direction. As such, it merits our support as hon. Members of this distinguished House.

Sir …

Mr Mufalali: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, I ask for your serious ruling. Is the hon. Member debating in order to read his speech?

Mr Speaker: The position, in terms of the law of the House, is that, save for maiden speeches, hon. Members of Parliament are not expected to read speeches whilst debating. If you have to refer to any material, it should be in the form of an aide-memoire.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I am also straining myself from here to see whether or not this particular hon. Member is reading a speech or referring to notes. It is not a very easy enterprise to execute, but I hope you take note of the Speaker’s position.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, thank you for your guidance. I was saying (Mr Kazabu looked at his notes) …


Mr Kazabu: … that, as Parliamentarians, how possible is it that we can support the objectives and ideals of the African Parliamentarians Network Against Corruption (APNAC), and yet fail to support this Bill?

Mr Speaker, in conclusion …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kazabu: … I want to say that there is nothing for anyone of us to fear about this Bill. One can only fear the enactment of this Bill into law if he/she is a potential corrupter or can be corrupted. I, therefore, remind hon. Members of the House our own daily prayer, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kazabu: ... which reads, in part:

“Let thy blessing descend upon us here in Parliament assembled and grant that we may as in thy presence treat and consider all matters that shall come under our deliberation in so just and faithful a manner as to promote thy honour and glory and to advance the good of those whose interest thou has committed to our charge.”

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, I have a lot of respect for all the hon. Members of the House on your right and left. As such, I want to say that when all is said and done, let us be on the right side of the argument because the people of our great country have reposed their interests in our custody.

Mr Speaker, with these remarks, I want to ask the almighty God to bless all of us as we deal with this matter this day and in the days ahead.

Sir, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Brigadier-General Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on your Committee’s report.

Mr Speaker, in support of your Committee’s observations and recommendations, I want to place on record that the PF senior members who were part of the MMD until recently, except for the new comers, are aware of the efforts that were made in order to create a foundation for the fight against corruption.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Brigadier-General Dr Chituwo:  Mr Speaker ...

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Hon. Members, I have already given counsel. The issue under discussion is very topical, emotive and, perhaps, also interesting. Let us give each other an opportunity to debate freely and properly. That is what is consistent with our status as hon. Members.

The hon. Member may continue.

Brigadier-General Dr Chituwo:  Mr Speaker, I thank you immensely for that protection.

Mr Speaker, before I was interrupted, I was saying that, as an MMD member, I must put it on record that the fight against corruption did not start yesterday. We did put in place an institutional and legal framework to strengthen the ACC and the Anti-Corruption Act. This House passed several Bills in support of the fight against corruption. 

I wish to state that enacting the Anti-Corruption Bill, 2012 is just choosing to use a different style to fight corruption. We argued, when repealing the Anti-Corruption Bill No. 38 of 2010, that the abuse of authority of office clause was, in fact, couched in the Penal Code. The Penal Code was very clear in Article 99, which is being repealed, in categorising corruption as a felony. It also prescribed what was to be done to someone who was found guilty of such an offence. There has been an improvement in Part III of the Bill to elaborate further what practice constitutes corruption. We commend the hon. Minister of Justice for that because there will be no arguments as to what makes a corrupt practice

Mr Speaker, we cannot combat corruption merely by having a very nice and clear legal framework in place. It is extremely important for us to clearly identify the roles to be played by all the players in the fight against corruption. All the citizens must participate in the fight against corruption. For them to do to so, they must be sensitised on it so that they can understand what it is all about. We must strengthen the administrative and financial systems because it is the weakness of us having inadequate human and financial resources which makes people queue up for services. Since some people would like to be served first, they are tempted to corrupt those serving them. 

Mr Speaker, I want to demonstrate that the MMD Government put in place measures to strengthen various pieces of legislation in order to combat corruption. One such piece of legislation was an Act intended to protect whistle blowers. The purpose of that piece of legislation was to protect officers from both public and private institutions who were willing to provide information regarding a corrupt practice to the relevant authorities. That Act guaranteed the whistle blowers a right to employment. Surely, such an Act passed by this House only strengthened the fight against corruption.

Mr Speaker, this House also passed the Forfeiture of Proceeds of Crime Bill, 2010, which stipulates that a person who has been guilty of proceeds or property or benefits from crime shall have such property seized in order to remedy the wrong doing. It also provides for the domestication of the UNCAC. This House also passed the Prohibition and Prevention of Money Laundering Act. One can see the correlation between corrupt acts and money received through corrupt acts. The beneficiaries of money from corrupt acts usually try to clean their earnings through money laundering. The putting in place of the Prohibition and Prevention of Money Laundering Act strengthened the fight against such vices. Since we are in the era of information and communication technology (ICT), we decided to put in place the Financial Intelligence Centre which is a specialised unit which investigates sophisticated crimes using ICT. 

Sir, I now wish to commend your Committee for a well done report. According to the Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, the burden of proof beyond any reasonable doubt should remain always with the prosecutor while the evidential burden to provide counter information is with the accused. This is according to Article 18 of our Constitution, sub-section 2. The accused remains innocent until proved otherwise.

We feel that if the hon. Minister of Justice can take this into account, then it will be a fair and just law. 

Mr Speaker, we would like to believe that the strengthening of the Anti-Corruption Act is meant to make it broad based, as has been stated by the hon. Minister, and that there will be no selection because the law is blind. As stated earlier, the legal aspect is just part of the whole system of fighting corruption. The public must be on board. For long-term results, just to echo what my colleague has mentioned, our fight against corruption must be based on our cultural values. These are values that are inculcated in each one of us at the family level. They are the values of honesty, integrity and fair play. Once these are part and parcel of our culture then, truly, the fight against corruption will be made much easier.

Mr Speaker, we, in the MMD, commend the Government for re-introducing this clause. As I said, as a matter of style, the lawyers were saying how you can be hunting for the abuse of authority of office in the other statutes, but now it has been brought in one law. We can only say well done. It is a good style. Otherwise, in terms of content, it was provided for already.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I would like to state that discrimination must be abhorred. For example, my constituents are rather confused as regards the qualification to the office of DC. At one time, we are told that there is a qualification which is based on patronage and the next time we are told there is no qualification. We would like to have a clear statement as to what the qualification is. If there are no qualifications that everybody can read, that is a recipe for abuse of authority of office. We are all Zambians. Political parties are vehicles to advance what we believe in, but that should not be the basis for discriminating one citizen against another. I feel very strongly about that. 

It is clear that the District Administrative Officers (DAOs) are more qualified than the appointed DCs. So, we implore the Government to act on what we say. This should not be extended to parastatals. All things being equal, we support this clause with a proviso that it is made tidier by recognising that the Constitution is the supreme law in our country.

With these few words, I support your Committee’s report.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali (Senanga Central): Mr Speaker, I support the Motion and, in doing so, I have a few statements to make.

Mr Speaker, the Bill before us is a very important one and I believe that the Government is right to bring it at this hour. I also believe this Bill will help us iron out a few things that we saw go wrong in the past and that we should be able to support the running of the Government.

Mr Speaker, without this Bill, we saw, in the past, men and women go against the people’s will. We saw hon. Ministers go into national parks to harvest animals and come with them to the ZAWA gates. When they got arrested, they called State House which sanctioned their passage. We saw an hon. Minister of Tourism get fired over such incidences. That is abuse of authority of office.

Mr Speaker, without this article, we saw men who were running the Government ordering the slaughter of animals from the Kafue National park by phone. They simply said, “my daughter is marrying and I need two buffaloes and impalas.” That was abuse of authority of office.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: It happened and must not be repeated because we know it.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, without this clause, we saw high-profiled Government officials getting Government money and banking it in personal accounts. That was abuse of authority of office. Without this clause, we have seen Government Ministers form companies to construct Government structures. That was abuse of authority of office. With this clause, we believe that all that will come to an end.

Hon. Member: Even Mezaf.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, those who will stand firm and be true to the words of this law will be protected. We saw an hon. Minister who was protecting our tourism get fired. Today, he is still languishing, and yet it was abuse of authority of office that saw him out of his office.

Mr Speaker, today, I believe that the fight against corruption is not about the number of years that one will spend in prison or the clarity of the whole issue. It borders on morality. 

Mr Speaker, I have seen that the Chairperson of your Committee has a part on governance. This clause might not highlight some issues as regards governance. It is a moral issue that must appeal to our minds and conscience when we take certain actions. Amidst poverty, we are abusing our authority. For example, it is not necessary for the Government to buy so many vehicles for the Executive in an economic situation such as ours where we see a few individuals gaining more while we watch young girls on the streets wallowing in poverty. We look forward to a day when they can go to a better school and better home. It is a moral issue.

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Hon. Member, just bear in mind that we do not have the liberty to debate ourselves as hon. Members. 

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, our conscience should guide us. When we see poverty levels going high, it is time to adjust our expenditure. This is a moral issue. 

Mr Speaker, it is a moral issue if you are investigating a company and you decide to chair that company afterwards without experience in telecommunications. You must not take over or become a chairman. How do you supervise it?

Sir, we have been told that some of the people who are taking over chairmanship of telecommunication companies are actually senior party officials in the Government and are supervising the ministers. What we see is a conflict in supervision because the hon. Minister and his Permanent Secretaries are expected to be answerable to this man and, at the same time, this man must be answerable to the hon. Minister. So, who will he be answerable to? This is a moral issue.

Mr Speaker, certain things are better off fought by ourselves when we believe that this will not go well but, because of greed, we want to take over everything and make it our own. It is not right.

Sir, it is a moral issue that should help us fight corruption. There is nothing else. Where I come from, there is a bird called kachamaikweya. This is a bird which eats while hiding in its feathers. 

Mr Speaker, in governance, we have seen white collar corruption …

Mr M. H. Malama: Mwaiche, uli wabufi. Koni nshi ako!

Mr Mufalali: Kachamaikweya.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: It eats while hiding. That is a bird.

Sir, we want to see, in the systems of governance, a shift away from such ways of running the Government. We do not want to see kachamaikweya here, no.


Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: We want poor people to benefit from the little resources that this country is able to put together. 

Mr Speaker, it is a moral issue to fail to keep a promise when you make one. It amounts to corruption and abuse.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: If you make a promise, especially the promise on the Barotseland Agreement, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: ... and you do not honour it, it is corruption.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: If you are unable to fulfill a promise, it is a moral issue. These are the simple things that we need to fight or stand up to in order to avoid conflicts and mistrust in governance. 

Mr Speaker, we need to come out of the cocoon of the small things that have hindered our progress in the fight against corruption.

Sir, we do not want to see failure on the part of the Government. We want to see a clear picture in the fight against corruption.

Mr Speaker, the many people who have suffered because of corruption in this country are looking up to us to ensure that we give them a fair share of the national cake. Otherwise, if we will be sitting here, passing laws that we will not manage to keep or follow, it will amount to nothing and our people will keep wallowing in poverty. It is corruption that has brought us this far, where we are failing to provide the services necessary for our people.

Sir, this Bill is most welcome and we want to see a paradigm shift in the way we handle things. We do not want to hear scandals from ministries or departments. We want to see clearly that our people are benefitting from this governance.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, I rise to support the Bill on the Floor of the House. The fight against corruption is in the manifesto of the Alliance foe Democracy and Development (ADD) that sponsored me to this House. 

Sir, corruption dates back to biblical times. I just want to take this opportunity to mention that it is there in the Bible. It was not called corruption, but bribery. Maybe, corruption is a new word. 

Exodus 23:8, says:

    “ Do not accept a bribe because it deprives the poor of justice.” 

Mr Speaker, Deuteronomy 16:19, also mentions bribery. It says:

“Do not accept bribery because it blinds the eyes of the wise and twists the words of the righteous.” 

Sir, in Deuteronomy 27:25, the Bible says:

    “Cursed …

Mr Chisala: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, I rise on a serious point of order. Is the hon. Member on the Floor in order not to follow the rules and procedures of this House which state that no one amongst us is supposed to quote either the Bible or Constitution? I need your serious ruling.

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Is the hon. Member able to cite me the Standing Order in question?



Mr Speaker: Order! 

May I advise the hon. Member on the Floor to note that it is not necessary to quote as she proceeds.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, I thank you for the guidance.

Sir, corruption, as has already been mentioned, is a bad cancer and a moral issue. It has to do with the values that we uphold as individuals, and these values must start with us in our homes. Let us teach our children these values. It is common in Zambia these days to see people admiring wealthy people with ill-gotten wealth. This is the wealth acquired through corruption.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imenda: These supposed wealthy people are perceived as heroes and people want to take them as examples. What moral issues are we imparting on the new generation?

Mr Speaker, poverty, in this country, is mostly due to the corruption that this country has gone through over the years.

Sir, abuse of office has its offshoots. Nepotism is a kind of corruption. Tribalism is a kind of corruption. If you give a job to somebody because he belongs to your tribe or favour somebody because he is your relative, it is abuse of office.

Mr Speaker, at the moment, the Ruling Party cannot be considered blameless of these vices. I am one of those who really hate corruption and have paid a high price because of it. Sometime back, as a cross border trader, I lost K15 million worth of goods in Zimbabwe because somebody wanted me to bribe him. I refused to do so and my goods remained there. At Kafue Bridge, again, somebody wanted me to bribe him, but I also refused to do so. Fortunately, since I asked for receipts after paying for customs, my goods were not lost. In spite of having paid customs, somebody wanted something else.

Mr Speaker, I just want to mention something about the notion that the abuse of office clause was in the Penal Code of the Constitution and, therefore, there was no need of having it in the Anti-Corruption Act. What harm was it going to cause if it was repeated in the Anti-Corruption Act? This was just enforcing our determination, as a people, to fight corruption and make it easy for the officers in the ACC to prosecute. They were not going to look for a constitutional lawyer to be advised on how to proceed. If it was in the Anti-Corruption Commission Act, it was going to be straight forward and it would have made it easier for the officers in the ACC to do their job.
Mr Speaker, I really think that it was wrong to have it removed for whatever argument one can advance. We have also seen how some companies have been sold for a song because of corruption. Even far back, I thought it was also wrong for somebody who was involved in the privatisation of a company to go and accept a job in that company. I feel that was not morally right, but abuse. We have seen how we lost millions of dollars because we could not appeal over a legal issue just because somebody abused his office or authority to stop those who were mandated to carry on the prosecution as far as it could go in the litigation. 

Mr Speaker, without wasting much of your time, I support the Bill wholeheartedly.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me yet another wonderful opportunity to air the views of the people of Choma Central on the Floor of this House. I will not belabour points that have already been discussed. 

Sir, allow me to congratulate Mr Hakainde Hichilema, the President of the United Party for National Development (UPND), on being the only political party leader to come out in the open urging hon. Members of Parliament to come and support this Bill.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, this is in line with our position as the UPND to publicly fight corruption and I believe that his public statement is an indication of our resolve to fight corruption. In supporting this Bill, I have noted a few changes that have taken place from the Anti-Corruption Act, No. 38 of 2010, to the current Bill. Of particular interest to me is the security of tenure that now appears to get fortified under the current Bill. The former Act allowed the President to hire and institute mechanisms to fire the Director-General of the ACC. In the current Bill, we see a shift to Parliament being responsible for instituting measures towards the removal or vacation of office by the Director-General of the ACC. I think that this is a progressive move because the Director-General of the ACC occupies a very sensitive position and should be allowed to serve freely and not at the pleasure of the President.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I also note the pronouncements of the autonomy that the ACC must enjoy. I have to say that the people of Choma Central, the UPND and I would like to urge the PF Government to begin to respect the rule of law. We should not only talk about the autonomy of the ACC and legislate it on the Floor of this House, but it must be observed, respected, upheld and practiced. What we have seen, in the recent past, in line with other autonomies enjoyed by other governmental organs, and I have in mind the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP), is intolerable and unacceptable. It is intolerable and unacceptable to have the Head of State, when swearing in the DPP, giving direct instructions to the DPP to institute investigations on this and that case in total defiance and disregard of the provisions of Article 56 of the Republican Constitution, which provides that the DPP, in execution of his authority, shall not be subject to any directive or control from anybody whatsoever, including the current Republican President. Therefore, as we debate, I would like to urge the PF Government to respect the rule of law because we will not sit here to pass laws which it will abrogate. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, as we support this Bill, we are saying that the fight against corruption should be genuine. What we have seen, in the recent past, since the PF Government took office, is a coverted attempt to undermine a genuine fight against corruption because they have used pronouncements to fight corruption as a continued tool to maintain their political popularity. This approach of political romanticism, using the pronouncements in the fight against corruption, is not welcome. The point I am making is that we have seen a lot of political statements on the fight against corruption being made from a political podium. We have seen allegations through the media to the effect that this particular person is corrupt or that person is a thief. We have also seen convictions of people through the media without recourse to the competent investigative wings of the Government and the courts so that the judicial machinery can take course. The pronouncements and conviction of citizens through the media, gives a justification for a call that this is political prosecution which undermines the fight against corruption. When one continues to make pronouncements from a political podium, without authorised agencies such as the ACC, the Drug-Enforcement Commission (DEC) and police taking action then, he/she gives justification to those who feel victimised to claim that there is political witch hunt. 

In this regard, I would like to urge the PF Government to stop this tendency because not only does it amount to zapping the powers of the ACC, DEC and police, but it also actually has the potential to undermine the credibility of the fight against corruption because even people who genuinely have to face the law will run under the cover of political persecution. The PF must desist from making pronouncements from a political podium and allow justice to take its course. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, it is dismaying to see that most of the statements that are made are towards members who have remained in the MMD. We have not seen anybody who has shown overture and/or crossed to the PF being cited for corruption. Why is it that only people in the Opposition are cited for corruption? 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: The PF Government still has time to exonerate itself. This kind of approach to corruption amounts to gerrymandering, which is a special form of corruption. 

Mr Nkombo: Gerry what?

Mr Mweetwa: Gerrymandering, aisha.


Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, please, restrict yourself to the official language. 

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I want to make my final point, in the interest of time. 

As a leadership, we need to begin to promulgate a higher level of ethical and moral standard. Standing on a political platform on the advent of an election and promising people more money in their pockets and more pay for civil servants and then u-turning immediately after the election, as the PF did, by stating that only an increment of 3 to 4 per cent  can be managed, demoralises  the Civil Service, thereby increasing corruption. 
Mr Speaker, it is important that even as we fight corruption in this country …

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised. 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to raise this point of order on my dear colleague. Is the hon. Member on Floor in order to refer to the salary increment for civil servants and other workers knowing very well that, at the moment, the unions are still negotiating with the Government? Does he know that it is very insensitive for anyone to politicise this matter. Is he in order? I need your serious ruling.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!
I would urge the hon. Member to, firstly, focus on the Bill and, secondly, take into account this issue as he winds up his debate. 

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance. I must live with the exigencies of the freedom of expression enjoyed in this House. 

Mr Speaker, I want to say that if a leadership is going to create more money in its own pockets and leave out the many people they had promised, it will breed corruption. My point is that instead of only looking at penal retribution for culprits of corruption, we must seriously begin to look at the root causes of corruption. At the heart of one of the root causes of corruption in the Public Service is poor pay. It is only appropriate that, through this forum, I make my point which is that the Civil Service deserves a better pay so that it can deliver without an incentive to be corrupt. 

Mr Speaker, with these remarks, I thank you. 
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mutati (Lunte): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to make my contribution. A number of points have been made by my colleagues who have already debated. I want to indicate, from the outset, that, as the MMD, we supported this Bill before and we are supporting it again. 

Mr Speaker, we will support the Bill subject to some significant and fundamental amendments that have been pronounced by your Committee that deliberated on this particular Bill. The recommendations of your Committee will make the Bill more balanced and equitable and will assist in the fight against corruption. 

Mr Speaker, in my debate, I will stick to key amendments that must be seen through this particular Bill because I believe that it is a Bill for all of us and not for a particular party. 

Firstly, it is important that any Bill passed by this Parliament is never in conflict with the Constitution. Where there is such a conflict, one must make the appropriate adjustments in the Bill. More importantly, any Bill that we support must not infringe the fundamental human rights of citizens. 

Therefore, it is important that this aspect is preserved. To be assumed guilty, therefore, would be counter to the Constitution. The necessary amendments should be made that the person remains innocent until proven guilty. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: I think that this is a fundamental constitutional point in supporting fundamental human rights. This amendment is key to this Bill and we will support it. 

Mr Speaker, the second point is that most of us remember the leadership code which refrained public officers from earning any other income apart from the salary. It was taboo to engage in business. 

In the definitions of this particular Bill, Mr Speaker, official emoluments have been defined very narrowly. The official emolument is the totality of those variables that appear on a payslip, therefore, killing the legitimate activities that an individual may engage in to earn a living. We need to define earnings in relation to the Income Tax Act, Cap. 323, which has a broader definition so that we leave no doubt in the mind of any zealous officer who comes and knocks on your door and says “show me what you have earned and bring your payslip.” 

In the Income Tax Act, the definition of earnings under Cap. 323, is: 

“Means any salary, wage, overtime or leave pay, fee, commission, bonus, gratuity, benefit advantage whether or not that advantage is capable of being turned into money or money’s worth, allowance, including inducement allowance, pension or annuity paid or given or granted in respect of any employment or office wherever engaged in or held.”

That is the definition of income in the Income Tax Act. This Act is updated and amended on a regular basis. Therefore, it would be difficult, Mr Speaker, for us to be bringing amendments to the Anti-Corruption Bill, as the definition of income is already there. More importantly, we must remove the fear from the public officers so that they do not glorify poverty, fear that they cannot have a kantemba, keep chickens or have that little mini-bus to supplement their official income and, in the process, also create employment for our people.

Ms Siliya: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: So, Mr Speaker, there is a need for the expansion of the definition.

I am glad to say, Sir, that the hon. Minister of Justice did agree to the logic of broadening the scope of the definition. This attitude where people see sense and they agree to make amendments is very positive. 

Ms Siliya: He is a wise man from the East!

Mr Mutati: The third point I would like to talk about, Mr Speaker, is that whilst we agree on the issue of the security of tenure of office for the Director General of the ACC, we think the process of his removal by a two-thirds majority takes the bar a bit too high. We would want to support your Committee’s report, but we think that this should be revised to a simple majority. Otherwise, it will be impossible for this Parliament to pass a Motion to remove the Director General, even if his removal was to be in the national interest. Of course, the position should have security of tenure to safeguard the professional conduct of the occupant, but let us simplify the majority that we need.

Sir, another important point that was made is that this Bill we are going to pass must divorce itself, as much as possible, from the ACC. The basis for their investigations must not be political pronouncements. Let those investigations be conducted in a professional and impartial manner.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: Let them not be targeted at a particular audience. That way, this fight is going to be fought properly.

Mr Speaker, lastly, it is also important that the Government systems and guidelines are panel-beaten to the extent that they are transparent and everybody is aware about what must be done whether it is in procurement or other undertakings. Otherwise, where you have doubts, and the guidelines are not clear, you give room for corruption. An example was given on the qualification of DCs. There should be clarity in what we want. Whether it is right or wrong, it does not matter, as long as everybody knows the terms of engagement. Therefore, minimising discretion in law is particularly important. Elimination of lacunas in law is equally important. Otherwise, we shall render ourselves vulnerable to enthusiastic officers who are responding to the dance of a different master to go and catch them. So, this law must be as tight as possible.

Mr Speaker, in supporting this Bill, it is our prayer that the amendments that are being proposed by your Committee find themselves in this Bill. Then, we shall guarantee equity and balance and ensure that this Bill delivers to the people of Zambia, hence we want to make it very clear that we are together in this particular fight. However, we want to join the fight on the basis that the Bill does not create new problems.

Sir, we support the Bill, subject to the amendments proposed by your Committee.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Clearly, I note very obvious consensus on this Bill. I, therefore, invite the hon. Minister of Justice to wind up the debate.

Mr S. S. Zulu: Mr Speaker, I am most grateful to all the hon. Members who have contributed to the debate on this Bill, which they are all supporting. 

Sir, this Bill is a landmark in the fight against corruption. Therefore, I would invite, particularly all hon. Members of Parliament to be whistle-blowers. There is no way you can fight corruption without the participation of the public at large, including the hon. Members. If the hon. Members have got evidence of corruption against anyone, they should report to the relevant authorities. That is the only way we can fight corruption.

Sir, I have listened carefully to all the submissions and I will study the proposed amendments. I will sit down with my legal officers and We will do anything that is necessary.

With these few words, I wish to thank all the hon. Members and you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Wednesday, 28th March, 2012.

THE PENAL CODE (Amendment) BILL, 2012

Mr S. S. Zulu: Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Sir, the Penal Code (Amendment) Bill, 2012 seeks to repeal Section 99 of the Penal Code, Chapter 87 of the Laws of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, currently, Section 99 provides for the offence of abuse of authority by a person who, being employed in the Public Service, does or directs to be done, in the abuse of the authority of his office, any arbitrary act prejudicial to the rights or interests of the Government or any other person and is liable to imprisonment for three years.

Sir, the amendment to the Penal Code is necessary to avoid duplication of offences because the Anti-Corruption Bill, 2012 seeks to create the offence of abuse of authority of office, which is more elaborate, and provides for a stiffer penalty of a maximum of fourteen years and is better suited to face the present challenges of dealing with instances of abuse of office by public officers. 

Mr Speaker, it would be a duplication to retain the offence in two different pieces of legislation. The offence is more closely associated with issues of corruption because the current definition of corruption or corrupt practices, under international instruments on corruption, includes abuse of office. The offence will, therefore, be best defined and dealt with under the Anti-Corruption Bill, 2012.

Sir, this Bill is progressive and I, therefore, urge the hon. Members of this august House to support it.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwiimbu: Thank you, Mr Speaker, …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.{mospagebreak}

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to present the report of your Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights and Gender Matters on the Penal Code (Amendment) Bill, 2012, which was laid on the Table of the House on Thursday, 22nd March, 2012. 

Sir, in the light of the proposed repeal of the Anti-Corruption Act No. 38 of 2010 and its subsequent replacement by the Anti-Corruption Bill, 2012, which, among other things, seeks to re-introduce the offence of abuse of office, it has become necessary to repeal Section 99 of the Penal Code, which also provides for the offence of abuse of office.

Mr Speaker, all the stakeholders who appeared before your Committee supported the repeal of Section 99 of the Penal Code, noting that, under the anti-corruption legislation, the offence of abuse of authority has been broadened and well-elaborated to capture all the necessary ingredients of the offence. Further, the repeal of Section 99 has been necessitated by the need to avoid duplication of the same offence. In short, the repeal is consequential to the re-introduction of the abuse of office offence in the anti-corruption legislation. The Bill is, therefore, not contentious. 

With these few words, Sir, I urge the House to support the Bill without reservations.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me an opportunity to contribute to the debate in support of the Motion. 

Sir, I note that one of the aims of this Motion is to strengthen the Anti-Corruption Bill, 2012, which was unanimously supported by this august House. It is important to note that this piece of legislation may not be able to stand in isolation because it needs to be harmonised with other pieces of legislation. I believe that is the spirit under which this Bill is coming through. 

Mr Speaker, it is true that in an environment where you have high levels of corruption, particularly in the delivery of public services, you also find levels of poverty being very high as the case might be in our environment. However, as I support this Bill, I am aware that we also need to create an enabling environment for the institutions that are charged with the responsibility of enforcing this Bill, once it becomes law. We should also bear in mind that we need to strengthen the capacity of spending agencies and ministries to handle issues of corruption. 

Mr Speaker, as we talk about the fight against corruption, it is true that all of us, as hon. Members of Parliament, seem to have agreed that we need to support this law. However, it is easier said than done. It is important that we take steps to create an environment that especially strengthens institutions like the ACC, DEC, Zambia Police and others. This will ensure that, as much as possible, public resources are protected. There has to be prudent management of resources as well as fiscal discipline at every stage.

Mr Speaker, listening to what came out from our various political parties, that is, the MMD, UPND and PF, which is the Ruling Party, it seems to have a common desire to participate in the fight against corruption. However, we also have to have shared ownership of the fight by genuinely getting involved. Some have said that corruption starts, sometimes, within our own clubs, such as political parties. Therefore, our political parties must also be involved in the fight against corruption. 

Sir, we have read in the public media what happens in political parties, where corruption is also very rampant. It is very easy for politicians to stand and say that they are fighting corruption. However, this fight should start with political parties respecting the rules and regulations that they set for themselves, which are, sometimes, disregarded because of corruption. 

Sir, while appreciating the guidance that was given by Mr Speaker earlier that we do not debate ourselves, I want to state that some of us here are products of corruption …


Mr Mucheleka: … because we refused …

Mr Speaker: Order!

But you are just going against what I said …


Mr Speaker: … that you should not debate yourselves.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, thank you for your guidance. Fighting corruption has to start with political parties so that we are able to lead by example by shunning corruption. There are cases in political parties whereby someone, for example, who was ranked fifth in terms of popularity, is suddenly adopted and the person who was the people’s choice is rejected.



Mr Mucheleka: That is corruption.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: Furthermore, when you are talking about fighting corruption, you should be able ...

Mr Miyutu: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Miyutu:  Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member debating in order to refer to hon. Members in the House as products of corruption when the UPND hon. Members are not? Is he in order not to talk about the Bill? 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I think that it is not proper to generalise that every hon. Member seated here is a product of corruption. I think it is a very unfair general comment. I must also state that hon. Members should be focused in their debates.  This is a consequential amendment. The people who have presented the amendment to the House have indicated the principles behind it. I noted that there was consensus when we debated exhaustively the subject of corruption earlier on. I do not think we should reopen that debate. Let us look at the purpose of this particular amendment that has been presented by the hon. Minister of Justice. We need to be focused.

The hon. Member may continue.

Hon. Government Members:  Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: Thank you, Mr Speaker, for your guidance although I would like to state that some of us did not debate exhaustively the subject of corruption.  

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Mucheleka: However, with the guidance which you have just given in mind, I want to say that this particular Motion on the Floor is a consequence of what we have just looked at. 

This particular Bill should be rooted in a manner which makes it easy to be supported by other relevant pieces of legislation and institutions.  Most importantly, the human capacity that has to be put in place has to ensure that, indeed, there is harmonisation of the various pieces of legislation in order to create a very conducive environment to enhance service delivery. This brings me to the issue of human capacity. 

One way of ensuring that service delivery is not compromised with regard to this particular Bill, is to make sure that you put in place competent manpower which will see to it that the law is enforced. This is why when I talk about strengthening the ACC, I did not just mean us supporting the amendments that might come through as regards its work, but also ensuring that its officials have security of tenure. 

We also need to ensure that there is proper funding to the ACC. To ensure that the work of the ACC is appreciated by everyone, we do not have to try to use a particular law to discriminate or persecute perceived political enemies or opponents ...

Mr Kazabu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, you have already guided the House. Is the hon. Member who is debating on the Floor of the House in order to debate a Bill which has just gone past the Second Reading? 

I seek your serious ruling, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member is obviously not in order. I have already provided guidance. I think it is just proper that guidance is heeded when it is provided ...

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker ...

Mr Speaker: Order! 

I have not finished making the ruling.

Mr Mucheleka: Sorry, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: When I provide guidance, it should be heeded. I must also state that it is not possible for every hon. Member to debate on every subject, especially when there is general and broad agreement because it amounts to repetition. I think we need to be businesslike in the way we conduct our debates. I think that if there is consensus, we should be able to discern it ourselves. I know it is a very pleasurable task to speak but, sometimes, it is redundant.

The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, I take your guidance. 

In conclusion, let me say that with regard to one of the issues that was raised in connection with the removal of the Director-General of the ACC ...

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, can I be protected? 

Mr Speaker: Order! 

I am not too sure, hon. Member, whether I am communicating the right message. I do not think we should be resistant to Mr Speaker’s rulings. It is most inappropriate for us to do so. I think the message is absolutely clear. The main debate has already been canvassed. We are now dealing with the consequential amendment. If there is any debate on it, the hon. Member should focus on it. I do not think we should reopen issues that have already been canvassed and a decision has been made. We have already passed the canvassing stage. We are now dealing with a totally different amendment altogether, which is very specific. The people who are moving it have explained in very clear language the principle behind the Motion. So, I do not think Mr Speaker’s ruling should be in any way circumvented.

The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, with that guidance, I support the Bill on the Floor.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, amending the piece of legislation in question worries me. What we are now saying is that a police officer is not supposed to arrest, but should instead report anyone found corrupt to the ACC. We are doing so despite having very few ACC officers and many police officers all over the country.

There was a provision in the piece of legislation which we are amending for the police to take action against abuse of authority. Maybe, there were other problems which I do not know about. We, perhaps, may not have been addressing the problems which were making the police officers fail to arrest those who were engaging in abuse of authority of office practices. 

You want to remove the authority of the police from the Penal Code to arrest anyone suspected to be corrupt because you think such issues will be covered adequately in the amended Anti-Corruption Bill. The police officers will have to refer any arrests to the relevant authority. The law you want to effect says that if there is a need for the police to make any arrests, permission will have to be sought from the Director of Public Prosecutions. I have difficulties in appreciating such a provision. The anti-corruption legislation, which we are putting in place, should not render the police officers inactive in the fight against corruption. In the anti-corruption piece of legislation, which we want to be approved, we have put in place provisions for the officers from the ACC to prosecute for anything, including failed promises. However, some powers have been taken away in the Penal Code from the police officers. That way, we shall make the police officer moribund. I find that difficult to accept. I hope we will not come back to the House wanting to reverse things like we did with the theft of motor vehicle legislation.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, in calling for the amendment of the Penal Code, the hon. Minister of Justice rightly said to repeal the offence of abuse of authority of office. He, therefore, confirmed that the law against the abuse of authority of office existed.  What had changed was the style, but the content was the same. Therefore, we never removed the law against the abuse of authority of office from our statutes.

I thank you, Sir.


Mr S. S. Zulu: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Members for supporting the Bill which is just consequential. However, I would like to take this opportunity to inform the hon. Member for Kalomo Central that a police officer has powers to arrest a person for any offence under any Act. As far as I am aware, the police have the authority to arrest anyone over any offence under any law.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Wednesday, 28th March, 2012.


Mr S. S. Zulu: Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Mr Speaker, in accordance with Article 117(7), which states:

 “Where, in any financial year, expenditure has been incurred without the authorisation of Parliament, the Minister responsible for finance, shall, on approval of such expenditure by the appropriate committee of the National Assembly, introduce in the National Assembly, not later than thirty months after the end of that financial year or if the National Assembly is not sitting, at the expiration of that period within one month of the first sitting of the National Assembly, thereafter, a Bill to be known as the Excess Expenditure Appropriation Bill, for the approval by Parliament of such expenditure.”

It is in this regard that I present the Bill to approve the excess expenditure of money aggregating K141, 199,569,187 required for the services of the Republic during the financial year ended on 31st December, 2009.

Mr Speaker, I thank all hon. Members for the unanimous support.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Wednesday, 28th March 2012.


Mr S. S. Zulu: Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Mr Speaker, in accordance with Article 117 (6), which states:

    “The Minister responsible for finance shall introduce in the National Assembly not later than fifteen  months after the end of that financial year or, if the National Assembly is not sitting at the expiration of that period within one month of the first sitting of the National Assembly thereafter, a Bill to be known as a Supplementary Appropriation Bill”

It is in this regard that I present the Bill to confirm the supplementary expenditure of money aggregating K2, 449,805,665,838 required for the services of the Republic during the financial year ended 31st December, 2010.

Sir, as hon. Members are aware, the Supplementary Estimates No.1 of 2010, were thoroughly debated and the Bill is just meant to regularise the approval already given by this House.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I want to commend the acting hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for doing a job for money he did not spend. It is something that we need to take note of. It worries me that we started off with about a hundred billion Supplementary Budget in 2009 to two trillion in 2010. I do not know what will be for 2011. I think that is not a very good practice for whoever was in Government.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: For our friends who have brought this Bill to normalise the situation, you should learn that while we may agree now, we may not accept one day. The only thing is that we are accepting an appropriation by someone else and you are restricted from saying much. 

However, Parliament should take note that the time of approval should not be that long so that we are able to ask proper questions. If the Budget had to be exceeded by two trillion, I can easily predict that the next time, the Budget will be exceeded by several trillions and I think that is not a healthy situation for our country. 

Mr Speaker, now that we have passed the Bill on promises, I think that the new Government must be careful. What makes the expenditure exceed are these unnecessary promises. Immediately you visit a few people dancing in front of you, you promise that you will give them several hammer mills and do one or two other extra things, but you go out of the country and donate US$10,000.


Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: So, it is these things that we should be careful about. 

Mr Speaker, I am simply saying that we should make sure that monies are safeguarded. My task is to remind and warn you, especially if you are a provincial minister. Your friends get arrested for misusing money. We are simply warning you. As you talk, be careful because the Copperbelt will treat you. That is where someone was arrested.

I thank you, Sir.


Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Any further debate?

Mr Kampyongo stood up.

Hon. Government Members: Aah! 

Ikaleni tulefwaya ukuya ifwe!

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Speaker, I know that people are tired, but I must also add my voice …

Mr Chisala: Oh Yes!

Mr Kampyongo: ... by saying that I feel very reluctant to be in this House just after passing a very important Bill, which is the Anti-Corruption Bill and approving this Budget which we were not part of and do not even understand how the money was spent. It is regrettable and unfortunate, indeed.

Sir, I would like to agree with Hon. Muntanga that we are in a very awkward situation to approve this appropriation. I think the people who were responsible for this expenditure must feel remorseful because this is the time when we are looking at the Auditor General’s report with so many irregularities.

Mr Speaker, I remember, the other day, Hon. Hamududu explained how people hide monies in these lines in the Budget. It is very difficult, …


Mr Kampyongo … especially with the realisation that some monies ended up underground. We might not know whether the monies came from some of these appropriations.

Sir, reluctantly, I must go on record that I will be part of this House to approve this Budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr S. S. Zulu, SC.: Mr Speaker, I am grateful for the unanimous support of the Bill.

 I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Wednesday, 28th March, 2012.




The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

The House adjourned at 1904 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 28th March, 2012.