Friday, 24^th March, 2023

The House met at 0900 hours

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER

ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I have received communication to the effect that in the absence of Her Honour the Vice-President, who is not feeling well, the hon. Minister of Defence, Hon. Ambrose L. Lufuma, MP, has been appointed Acting Leader of Government Business in the House from today, Friday, 24^th March, 2023, until further notice.

I thank you.

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MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

MS NYIRENDA, HON. MEMBER FOR LUNDAZI, ON DR MUSOKOTWANE, THE HON. MINISTER OF FINANCE AND NATIONAL PLANNING, ON YOUTHS WHO CONDUCTED THE 2022 CENSUS OF POPULATION AND HOUSING NOT HAVING BEEN PAID UP TO NOW

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, the matter I wish to raise is directed at the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. Last year, the Government undertook an activity where it involved the youths to participate in the 2022 Census of Population and Housing. The youths did the work, to date, most of the youths in my constituency and other constituencies have not been paid their money.

Madam Speaker, why is the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning holding on to the little resources for the youths up to this time?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, that is an old issue. According to the requirements for matters of urgent public importance, the issue must be of recent occurrence. This question looks very important. So, could you please, file in a question so that your matter can be attended to in the correct manner.

MR KAPYANGA, HON. MEMBER FOR MPIKA, ON MR LUFUMA, THE ACTING HON. LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE, ON THE UPCOMING SUMMIT FOR DEMOCRACY IN ZAMBIA AND LGBTQ PEOPLE

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, thank you so much for according me this opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance pursuant to Standing Order No. 134 read together with Standing Order No. 135(c).

Madam Speaker, my matter of urgent public importance is directed at the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House.

Madam Speaker, sometime this month, the nation will host what is called the Summit for Democracy. Five countries, that is, Costa Rica, the Netherlands, Ghana, South Korea and our country have been earmarked to co-host this summit.

Madam Speaker, the hallmark of this summit, which was declared by the United States (US) President, Joe Biden, is the promotion of democracy and human rights. Most importantly on human rights is the promotion of human rights for gay people or let me say Lesbian Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer (LGBTQ) people.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, when you check nations like Costa Rica, you will find that it is very liberal and it was the first country in the world to legalise same sex marriages. We know the Netherlands. Even here, people raised flags for LGBTQ people.

Madam Speaker, I take cognisance of the fact that the Government has pronounced itself very well on this issue on several occasions. However –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you are now debating.

Mr Kapyanga: I am trying to build the urgent matter, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: No!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, you have to be precise. Can you summarise your matter of urgent public importance instead of debating it.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, thank you, and I stand guided.

Madam Speaker, this is happening at a time when the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) and the United States President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (PEPFAR) have deployed a technical director at State House in our country for what is known as the key and vulnerable population.

Madam Speaker, is the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House in order to keep quiet when our nation will be hosting such a summit whose sole purpose is to come and launch, …

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Kapyanga: …LGBTQ activities in Africa using our nation?

Madam Speaker, our people out there –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You are debating, hon. Member.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, as I conclude, I seek your indulgence on this very important matter. Why is the Government not bringing a Bill to the House to toughen laws on homosexuality? For how long will our people talk against this and the Government is rhetoric?

Madam Speaker, we need action so that we protect the values and principles of our country. I seek your very serious guidance.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambita: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, there is an indication for a point of order. Let us listen to the point of order.

The hon. Member for Zambezi East may proceed.

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, I sincerely thank you for the opportunity to raise this very serious point of order pursuant to Standing Order 65.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Mpika, has just concluded moving a matter of urgent public importance.

Interruptions

Mr Kambita: The hon. Member stood to raise a matter of urgent public importance. This House is well-guided on this matter. You guided the House, accordingly, on what is relevant in terms of raising a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member in order to use this very important avenue that we have provided for in our Standing Orders to simply politic and try to move innuendoes and insinuations and mislead the whole nation as though the Government is willing to entertain what he is trying to propagate; Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer (LGBTQ) issues?

Madam Speaker, is he in order to use an avenue which is so important for raising issues that affect our people to propagate issues that are non-existent?

Interruptions

Mr Kambita: For ten years, the people on the left did nothing about it.

Madam Speaker, is he in order to come in this fashion?

I seek your serious ruling.

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I think I have guided. There was even an announcement that was made by Mr Second Deputy Speaker on rules or procedures of how to raise matters of urgent public importance. If I give my stand on what he has said, it will become my ruling. Maybe, it would have been important also for you to wait until you heard my ruling.

However, let me offer a guide to other hon. Members. Please, this is not a platform to debate or politic about matters. You are supposed to be very precise. Summarise your matters of urgent public importance; you are not supposed to debate them. That is a requirement. It is a rule that you have to follow. Let us stick to that rule. We are not interested to hear the debate. We are just interested to hear the matters as they are. Do not go round in circles. Let us try to be precise, and the issues have to hold one matter and not several matters brought together. It is just supposed to be one matter that is brought up.

Now, I am going into the ruling. Of course, the hon. Member was out of order because he debated the matter. He was supposed to only state it.

My ruling on that matter, hon. Member for Mpika, is that you have already debated it. It is holding two issues, as far as I heard. I thought the issue was about Zambia holding this summit, but you went on to say that the Government should bring a Bill to the House. So, it is really mixed up. Moreover, this is not a matter that will bring a catastrophe at the end of it all. We are looking at matters that are really urgent that if the Government does not attend to them, there will be a catastrophe or a disaster that will follow. So, this matter is not admissible.

The hon. Member for Kawambwa may take the Floor.

MR CHILANGWA, HON. MEMBER FOR KAWAMBWA, ON HER HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT, MRS NALUMANGO, ON ZAMBIANS BEING TOLD THAT THEY MUST NOT TAKE THE GOVERNMENT SERIOUSLY

Mr Chilangwa (Kawambwa): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, the country woke up to a screaming headline attributed to His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Zambia. He said they are jokers. Jokers are people who are not serious and anybody who takes them seriously gets disappointed.

Madam Speaker, this issue is directed at Her Honour the Vice-President. Must Zambians now believe that yes, indeed, the people in the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government are jokers who must never be taken seriously? That is why 750 million worth of sugilite has gone missing at a police station.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Chilangwa: That is why His Excellency the President is answering an issue that was not addressed to him instead of those who were addressed in that particular matter.

Madam Speaker, is the Government in order to continue telling Zambians that it is not serious and that Zambians must not take our hon. Colleagues and the President seriously because they are jokers?

Madam Speaker, I need your serious ruling because Zambians are worried that they voted for jokers.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, I think now we have gone astray. We are moving away from matters of urgent public importance. We are abusing this platform. This matter that you have brought up, hon. Member for Kawambwa, has so many issues and is very difficult to even understand what you are talking about. Moreover, this is not an urgent matter. What will happen? What is the catastrophe there? What is the disaster that will occur? Are people going to die because of that?

So, hon. Member, my guide is that we are going to skip this session because you have brought in many matters that are not related to urgent matters.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Leader of the Opposition, is that a point of order or a matter of urgent public importance?

Mr Mundubile: It is a matter of urgent public importance.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Ms Kasune: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, I had forgotten that there was an indication for a point of order from the Deputy Chief Whip.

What is your point of order, before the hon. Leader of Opposition comes in?

A point of order is raised.

Ms Kasune: Madam Speaker, I thank you.

In all fairness, I think there is a deliberate move by the hon. Members on the opposite side who are in the Opposition to try and use this time for politicking. Standing Order 65 is clear and you have guided –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member for Chinsali, please.

Ms Kasune: I do not think it is right, Madam Speaker, to proceed in this fashion. I need your serious intervention …

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Ms Kasune: … because the issues they are raising are simply political. We need to do serious business in this House.

Madam Speaker, at your discretion, maybe, we should move on to the next item on the Order Paper because this is not a place to politic, but to do serious business.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Ms Kasune: I need your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, I already guided. I mentioned that now we have started to abuse this platform. It is an opportunity for hon. Members of Parliament to raise matters of urgent public importance so that the Executive can attend to them. However, we have started bringing issues that are not important.

I am going to read this announcement that was made because it seems we are not moving in the right direction, and are wasting people’s time. We know deep down our hearts that what we want to raise are not matters of urgent public importance, but we stand up and continue with them.

Hon. Members, it reads:

“The essence of a matter of urgent public importance is to bring to the attention of the House and the Executive a widespread event in the country. The event should not be peculiar to only a small section of the country. The subject matter should not only be clothed in national character, but also capable of being debated. Its importance should be such that if the Executive does not intervene immediately, a catastrophe would befall the nation. For example, floods, droughts, fall armyworms and invasion of locusts are some of the events or incidences contemplated by Standing Order 134 as matters of urgent public importance because they usually affect a large section of society. An outbreak of a disease in a constituency for example, though urgent and important, cannot be raised as matter of urgent public importance because it is not debateable and also, not widespread. The appropriate tool to employ under such circumstances is a question of urgent nature under Standing Order No. 76.”

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I am sure it is very clear, but why are we now meandering or going astray? What we are supposed to do is very clear. I am going to only allow the last two hon. Members to see if we have understood.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me to raise a point of order on Hon. Chilangwa.

Madam Speaker, the point of order I am raising is anchored on Standing Order No. 65(1)(b).

Madam Speaker, Hon. Chilangwa, in his purported matter of urgent nature, indicated that sugilite in Kabwe is missing and he attempted to produce a newspaper to show that sugilite in Kabwe is missing.

Madam Speaker, is he in order to indicate that the sugilite which is the subject of court process in Kabwe is missing yet, that sugilite is under lock and key? The Provincial Joint Security Committee secured it yesterday in public domain.

Mr Chilangwa: Yesterday?

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members on my left!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, the point I am making is that the sugilite was transferred from a truck to a secure container in Kabwe and it is available and verifiable.

Mr Chilangwa: Yesterday?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member in order under a stupor to start making insinuations that sugilite is missing in Kabwe, contrary to the provision of Standing Order No.65(2)?

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members.

I reserve my ruling so that I investigate the matter. I will come back to this House to render a ruling at a later date. Like I mentioned earlier, I will allow only two hon. Members; the Leader of the Opposition and the hon. Member for Mbabala, so that we make progress. The Leader of the Opposition, what is your matter of urgent public importance?

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, on a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, the matter that I raised requires the immediate attention of the House and the Government.

Madam Speaker, I was called for a meeting by your hon. Members on the left. Fifty hon. Members of Parliament called me for a meeting and told me that they are beginning to prepare for a protest against the summit on democracy, which summit they suspect is a veiled plan by the Americans to promote Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender and Queer (LGBTQ) rights and –

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mung’andu: We have the documents.

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker –

Mr Mutale: We are alerting you.

Mr Michelo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Michelo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Bweengwa!

Mr Mutale: He misbehaves all the time and you allow him.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Bweengwa!

You are not supposed to debate whilst seated, and you (addressing Mr Mutale) were Deputy Chief Whip.

Please, can we have order?

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, I want to be very clear that fifty hon. Members of Parliament are preparing their constituencies to demonstrate against what they believe is the promotion of the LGBTQ rights through the summit on democracy.

Ms Tambatamba: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Leader of the Opposition!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, that issue was already brought out by another hon. Member and I ruled that he should find another avenue of raising that matter because it was being repeated.

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: Mundubile, you are a problem.

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, this matter is very important and I feel very strongly about it.

Interruptions

Ms Tambatamba: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mundubile: No, I feel very strongly about it. Are we going to wait for the fifty hon. Members to demonstrate? Is that what we want? Are we going to wait for the fifty hon. Members to demonstrate? No, it is not –

Ms Tambatamba: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mundubile: No, we cannot be curtailed everyday.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

We have become unruly.

Mr Mundubile: They should have allowed me to finish.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Let us make progress. We go to Questions for Oral Answer under Standing Order No. 76.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr B. Mpundu: They are quarrelling.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Chama North!

You may proceed.

Mr Michelo: Keep quiet!

Mr Fube: You cannot talk to me like that. You cannot.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Chilubi!

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Which hon. Member on the right is arguing with the hon. Member for Chilubi?

Hon. PF Members: The hon. Member for Bweengwa.

Mr Fube rose and, whilst facing Mr Michelo's direction, started walking, but was restrained by some hon. Members.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Hon. Member for Bweengwa and hon. Member for Chilubi, please leave the House.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Michelo and Mr Fube left the Assembly Chamber.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Let us make progress.

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

ELEPHANTS TERRORISING VILLAGERS AND DESTROYING CROPS IN CHAMA NORTH CONSTITUENCY

223. Mr. Mtayachalo (Chama North) asked the Minister of Tourism:

1. whether the Government is aware that elephants are terrorising people and destroying crops in the following villages in Chama North Parliamentary Constituency:

1. M’bangandwe;
2. Mungulube;
3. Chipeta;
4. Zoobole; and
5. Mulumbu; and

1. if so, what urgent measures are being taken to avert hunger and safeguard human life.

The Minister of Tourism (Mr Sikumba): Madam Speaker, I will attempt to answer the question as follows:

The Government is aware that elephants and other animals, which include hippos, buffaloes and crocodiles, are terrorising people and destroying crops in the areas mentioned in Chama North Parliamentary Constituency.

Madam Speaker, the Department of National Parks and Wildlife (DNPW) received reports of elephants terrorising people between 23^rd February and 4^th March, 2023, in the above-mentioned areas, and immediately deployed officers to calm the situation. Further, on 17^th March, 2023, another report came from the same areas and officers were deployed immediately on the same date, and they blasted and scared off elephants from the fields.

 

Madam Speaker, Chama North Constituency, like the rest of the district, is situated in a Game Management Area (GMA) and as such, interaction between humans and animals, especially in the outskirts of the district, is rampant. Continued encroachment in animal habitats by communities for various reasons such as farming and settlements has worsened the situation, especially in areas near the Luangwa River and Kamphambe Stream, where both people and wildlife share water sources, which is unfortunate. The interaction between animals and humans usually results in attacks on people and the destruction of crop fields and food storage barns, among others.

Madam Speaker, the urgent immediate measure that was taken to avert hunger and safeguard human life in these areas was the deployment of officers on the ground to calm the situation by scaring off the elephants. Further, the ministry, through the DNPW, has engaged its partner, Community Market for Conservation (COMACO) to sensitise members of the community on the creation of a community land bridge which equips communities with knowledge on how to interact with wildlife without any conflicts, whatsoever.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No.65 (b), which says the information we provide on the Floor of this House must be factual.

Madam Speaker, in his submission, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security said that when I raised my issue, I rose in my stupor meaning that I am drunk.

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Mr Chilangwa: Is he able to prove that?

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Mr Chilangwa: What kind of nonsense is this?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members on the right!

Mr Chilangwa: Madam, I cannot accept this.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Chilangwa: I cannot accept this!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Kawambwa, you may continue with your point of order.

Mr Chilangwa: Is Hon. Jack Mwiimbu in order to refer to me in that fashion?

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

I think we are becoming – I do not know whether we have forgotten that we are in Parliament, in the august House, and the people who sent us here are observing what is happening. We are supposed to observe decorum in this House. Let us avoid debating while seated. That point of order was actually addressed to me so that I make a ruling, but so many people are trying to debate or join in the point of order. Let us restrain from doing that.

Hon. Member for Kawambwa, what was raised by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security was a point of order. Our rules are that you cannot raise a point of order on another point of order. Kindly find a better way to address that matter. You can write a complaint to the Office of the Speaker. We cannot admit a point of order on another point of order.

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving me an opportunity, on behalf of the good people of Mbabala, to ask a follow-up question.

First of all, may I begin by congratulating the Chipolopolo and Hon. Elvis Nkandu.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munsanje: Under the new dawn, Zambia is now winning. So, we are back in the Champions League.

Madam Speaker, is there a programme to train our communities to coexist with the animals given that we get value from them and we need to live with them, and the fact that some of us are settled in the corridors they used to pass many years ago, resulting in the conflict? Is there a programme at the ministry to try and create coexistence between humans and animals? Right now, in Choma District, ...

Hon. Opposition Member: What is your question!

Mr Munsanje: ... there are thirty-one elephants grazing in some fields.

My question is very clear. LGBT team, keep quiet.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, let me guide. Let us avoid words that are provocative. Let us just be as normal as possible. This is a very important question. It says some people have died in some parts of the country and the people are waiting to hear what the Executive is thinking about this matter. Let us not politicise everything.

Hon. Minister of Tourism, you can respond.

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I thank the …

Mr J. E. Banda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Sikumba: … hon. Member of Parliament for Mbabala for that important question.

Madam Speaker, yes, indeed, there are programmes we have instituted in the DNPW on how we will sensitise communities in Game Management Areas (GMAs) to coexist with wildlife, and I will give an example of Chama North. A partner by the name of Frankfurt Zoological Society, has been brought on board to work with the DNPW to see how best they can sensitise the communities to not only coexist with animals, but to also find other opportunities that exist in the areas that they live in.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me an opportunity, on behalf of the people of Itezhi-Tezhi, to ask a follow-up question, with regard the Chama case.

Madam Speaker, human/animal conflicts are at the moment everywhere, not only in Chama. In Itezhi-Tezhi, I lost about 20 ha of maize fields due to elephants. I know that one of the contributing factors is the small number of wildlife officers and that the Government is yet to recruit more. What progress has been made as regards the recruitment of wildlife officers? I know that once new officers come on board, they will help to mitigate the challenges we have. At the moment, I am aware that scouts are the ones going in the national parks, because of inadequate wildlife officers, which is not supposed to be the case. Where are we with regard to the recruitment process of wildlife officers who will safe guide the people in Game Management Areas (GMAs)?

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Itezhi-Tezhi for that question. Yes, I agree with him that the number of wildlife police officers in our twenty national parks is not sufficient to deal with the increased population of animals. To answer his question, we will announce the final list of those recruited as soon as the Civil Service Commission concludes the process, early next month or so.

Madam Speaker, let me take advantage of this question to mention that your Members in here are yet to be inducted as honorary wildlife police officers. We will make sure that before this House rises, your Members are sufficiently trained to assist the DNPW to avert the issues pertaining to human-wildlife conflicts.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, let me make it abundantly clear that before Chama was conferred with the district status, it was part of Lundazi, and it was classified as a Game Management Area (GMA) through the Wildlife Act of 1947. However, the situation has changed, and it is now a district.

Madam Speaker, we have been talking about man/animal conflict for a long time, and our people feel that the Government is not helping them. During the colonial Government, there was a systematic way of handling the human/animal conflict. Why does the Government not allow each village to be empowered with a hunter so that when animals became a threat to human life or destroy crops, he/she can scare or kill the animals, the way it was during colonial days? That way man/animal conflict was controlled. Why do we not do that? Currently, people do not even have guns in the villages and that is why it is becoming very difficult to deal with this issue.

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I agree with the hon. Member that the population of the areas has also increased, which is putting a lot of strain on the little land we have at the moment.

Madam Speaker, at the risk of sounding mischievous, you will also realise that a number of people in the past couple of years have secured pieces of land in those areas and fenced them off. Those areas are ordinarily corridors for the animals. So, we do not want to start mentioning certain issues that happened in the past, lest I be accused of politicking. However, I think it is something that people need to understand. Animals used to roam freely in the GMAs. Then, obviously, we set up districts, and some unscrupulous individuals, started getting titles for those pieces of land, and, unfortunately, fencing them. So, we have that pressure, however, we are looking at ways and means on how we are going to lessen the interaction of wildlife and humans that, obviously, causes fatalities.

As such, Madam Speaker, we will be engaging hon. Members. That is why my ministry has deliberately involved all hon. Members to help in the effort to curb human/wildlife conflict. Let us tell the people in our constituencies that the animals we have in our protected areas are our pay-masters and we should protect rather than kill them.

I submit, Madam Speaker.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, I think the human/animal conflict has become a national issue. In a good number of districts, even where there were no animals, elephants have killed people. Recently, we learnt of some areas in the Southern Province where people were killed. People who did not know about human/animal conflict, such as the people in Isoka who were laughing at us, are also being killed. The hon. Minister will agree with me on that.

Madam Speaker, permit me to say this. I was born and grew up in the village. My village has now been taken over by animals. That is serious. We had to move 30km from the village in the valley to the plateau. Again, the elephants followed us. That is what is happening now. The population of elephants has grown.

Madam Speaker, the last question had to do with what urgent measures the Government was taking to avert hunger and safeguard human life in the affected areas. Does the ministry have any plans to see to it that affected villages – There has never been a Government that has supplied fertiliser to the valley areas of the country and I can challenge anyone here on that matter. Does the ministry have any plans to start helping out the villages where animals are encroaching? It is animals now encroaching on human land and not the other way round.

Madam Speaker, does the hon. Minister have plans to start compensating the people who are being affected by animals. Those are the areas where people would grow food on a particular day, and the next day animals destroy the entire field.

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, indeed, ours is a listening Government. We would not leave our people out in the cold purely because we would be seen to protect animals at the expense of human beings. In terms of plans on how we are going to avert hunger, I mentioned in my statement that there are mechanisms that have been put in place with our co-operating partners, conservation measures partnerships (CMPs), and, indeed, the DNPW.

More so, Madam Speaker, to just bring to your attention that currently, the Government of the Republic of Zambia has no legislation on compensating victims of human/wildlife conflict. However, we are in the process of sitting with the technocrats and carrying out a survey within the region to ascertain exactly how we will work around compensating victims of human/wildlife conflict, especially in our reign states, which is called the Kavango Zambezi Transfrontier Conservation Area (KAZA) region.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for the opportunity. My question was going to be on the compensation of victims, but I am glad that the hon. Minister referred to it. We continue to losing lives Chama when wildlife moves from game management areas (GMAs) into the fields. We have registered loss of lives, damage to property, et cetera. The need to look at the Wildlife Act that protects animal life but does not protect human life is urgent. Would there be a timeframe for that process of relooking at the piece of legislation to ensure that we bring compensation to the victims of human/animal conflict?

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I cannot give it a timeframe per se because we all understand how the cycle of Parliament works. However, I would probably just like to make a clarion call to hon. Members that once that piece of legislation is brought to the House, it should be given the priority it deserves.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, it is not disputable that the number of wildlife officers has gone down tremendously. However, the challenge we have is that when there is a report of a person killed, or animals eating people’s crops, usually officers do not respond expeditiously. However, when they hear that an animal has been killed, they respond at the speed of lightning. So, that, I think, has been causing problems.

Madam Speaker, what measures is the Government putting in place to ensure that wildlife officers respond on time when animals kill a person or when they eat people’s crops. Currently, you find that there are ten wildlife officers at the Boma instead of them being in the bush? That way, I think, it is very difficult to manage man/animal conflict. People are arrested in their homes. The wildlife officers patrol, but do not arrest poachers. However, people are arrested in their homes. So, what measure is the Government putting in place to ensure that officers respond expeditiously when people face those challenges?

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I am happy that the hon. Member of Parliament appreciates the fact that the Department of National Parks and Wildlife is ailing due to lack of sufficient resources as well as manpower. The issue of having ten people at the Boma as opposed to being in the field is an administrative issue that we may need to look into. We will defiantly engage various area wardens around our national parks to ensure that certain areas are manned.

Madam Speaker, I must make mention also that managing twenty national parks in Zambia is no small business. We have reached out to a number of our collaborating management partners to see how best we can manage this particular resource that we have. As such, we have piloted with Liuwa National Park, the Kafue National Park and Bangweulu Wetlands. So, based on the results that we are going to get from there, we should be able to replicate to the reminder of the seventeen national parks, including Mosi-oa-tunya National Park, which is in my constituency, so that these issues of conservations and law enforcement can be expedited in all areas, as well as in Chama North. So, we will be talking to our partner who is looking after that area in Chama, Frunkfurt Zoological Society (FZS) to ensure that some of the issues such as lack of manpower that are in Chama North and Chama South are mitigated in the shortest possible time.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Malambo (Magoye): Madam Speaker, two weeks ago in Magoye, there was a killing by wildlife officers at a certain white man’s farm. A life was lost, and I am told there was a huge riot. Has the wildlife officer who killed that person been arrested?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: This question has shifted to another area. We are looking at Chama North. Hon. Minister of Tourism, do you have an answer?

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I am not aware of that incident.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, I only hope what the hon. Minister has just announced that he will be concluding an agreement with a co-operating partner may be a solution. A day before yesterday, we were burying someone in my constituency, Chief Tembwe’s area in particular, who was attacked by an elephant around 1600 hours in his field. He was in his field when the elephant went to eat maize. He could not run faster than the elephant, and so, he was killed. We were burying the day before yesterday and the hon. Minister is aware.

Madam Speaker, in many parts of my constituency, people have no food. Relief food has to be taken there. Unfortunately, it cannot even reach them because the areas are flooded. Clearly, we are having these challenges because of lack of man power to try and protect our people

Madam Speaker, how soon does the hon. Minister think he will conclude this agreement with Frunkfurt Zoological Society (FZS) because it is the one that has brought this problem? Through its enforcement, now we have more elephants and animals. How soon will this agreement be concluded so that FZS also invest resources in protecting people’s crops and lives?

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, we will conclude that agreement within the second quarter of 2023.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr J. E. Banda: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We are looking at supplementary questions. I am deliberately not taking any points of order because we have to make progress. We wasted a lot of time on points of order. They will come later. Let us first conclude with this question.

Mr Hamwaata (Pemba): Madam Speaker, if you measure it, then you can control.

Madam Speaker, does the hon. Minister have any plans of coming to the House and updating the nation on how many elephants and buffaloes we have in this nation so that if we have too many, probably the ministry can start thinking of cropping them?

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, yes, the Department of National Parks and Wildlife continuously does a game count to ascertain the number of habitats that we have in the various national parks that we have. If the House would like to have a look at the numbers of habitats that we have across the country, the Department of National Parks and Wildlife through my ministry should be able to avail that information.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr E. Daka (Msanzala): Madam Speaker, we as human beings are being told or encouraged to live in harmony with animals. However, even us as human beings, we are failing to live in harmony with one another. How is it possible that these animals will co-exist with human beings when even here, we are failing to co-exist?

 

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Though we should not debate ourselves, do you have an answer or a comment, hon. Minister?

Laughter

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, it is a very interesting analogy that the hon. Member of Parliament for Msanzala has used. It, indeed, starts with us. If we as humans can live in harmony, then I can guarantee you that despite us being among the wild, especially in Chama North and Chama South, the conflict between humans and wildlife would not exist.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, the human-animal conflict is a big issue and my constituency is no exception. Since it is a national issue, the Ministry of Tourism cancelled hunting concessions and there is a court ruling to that effect; that it was done without following the law. When is this going to be resolved because we cannot carry on talking about this, when we know that the population of animals is growing because of this cancellation?

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I want to put on record that the increased population is not due to the fact that hunting has not happened in the last one year. The increased population of animals is due to the fact that the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government has brought in prudent measures of managing resources; the fauna and flora in the various national parks that we have. We have seen a decrease in poaching which was rampant in the last couple of years. We have seen law enforcement and conservation efforts being implemented by this New Dawn Government this time around.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Nalolo also suggested that there is a court ruling pertaining to the cancellation of the hunting concession. I must also make mention that the Government of the Republic of Zambia is still going to court on 4^th April, 2023 as well as on 6^th May, 2023, to ascertain the same judgment that hon. Member of Parliament for Nalolo brought up.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

STALLED CONSTRUCTION OF THE NATIONAL REGISTRATION OFFICE IN KATETE

224. Mr P. Phiri (Mkaika) asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security:

(a)        why the construction of the National Registration Office in Katete District has stalled;

(b)        when the project will resume;

(c)        who the contractor for the project is;

(d)        how much money was owed to the contractor, as of March 2022; and

(e)        what the cost of the project is.

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, the construction of the National Registration Office in Kateke District stalled because the Government delayed in honouring outstanding payment certificates for works completed. The contract was terminated by mutual consent.

Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security, in collaboration with the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, has since evaluated the project to establish the scope of the remaining works. The project will resume as soon as the materials are procured to complete the remaining works during the 2022 Budget allocations using personnel from the two ministries.

Madam Speaker, the Contractor was Merchant General Dealers.

The contractor was paid all arrears as of March 2022. The Government does not owe the contractor any money.

Madam Speaker, the contract sum for the project was K554,730.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr P. Phiri: Madam Speaker, I did not get the Hon. Minister clearly when he said he used the money from the 2022 Budget. When are we going to see the works now?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, we are going to use the Force Account to ensure that this particular project is completed. So, I cannot tell the exact time and when the monies will be released. We always await the releases made to Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development and to our ministry. We are committed to ensuring that this particular project is completed.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr E. Daka (Msanzala): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that answer. Is the hon. Minister going to maintain the same contractor or he will look for another to finish up the remaining works?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I did indicate that the contract was terminated by way of mutual consent. We will look at other ways of ensuring that this project is completed.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, could the hon. Minister kindly clarify what he said. In his statement, he said that the contract was cancelled and that he is going to procure the materials when funds are available. Is this contract going to be labour based or it will be an internal arrangement where no contractor will be engaged?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, we will use our own personnel to ensure that this contract is completed.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Phiri (Milanzi): Madam Speaker, when will the works will be completed.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I did mention that we will only be able to re-commence the works once funds are made available by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to enable us to carry out the works. We will use our own members of staff. As the hon. Member is aware, even in Katete, we are using our own officials in the Zambia Correction Service to construct facilities in Katete. In a similar manner, that is what we are going to do.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

INFRASTRUCTURE CONSTRUCTION IN KANCHIBIYA CONSTITUENCY

225. Mr. Chanda (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

(a)        when construction of the following infrastructure in Kanchibiya District will commence:

1. a civic centre;
2. a police station;
3. a post office;
4. high cost houses;
5. medium cost houses; and
6. low cost houses.

(b)        what the cause of the delay in commencing the projects is;

(c)        what the cost of each project is; and

(d)        what the time frame for the completion of each project is.

Mr Sikumba (on behalf of the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi)): Madam Speaker, the construction of the under-listed infrastructure in Kanchibiya District will only commence once Phase I of the project is completed, and Phase I is as aforementioned:

1. a civic centre;
2. a police station;
3. a post office;
4. high cost houses;
5. medium cost houses; and
6. low cost houses.

Madam Speaker, the delay in commencing the project is due to the lag in the completion of Phase I projects because of financial constraints.

Madam Speaker, the cost of each project will only be determined once the procurement of contractors is concluded.

Madam Speaker, the timeframe for the completion of each project will only be determined once the procurement of contractors is done.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, I am grateful to the hon. Minister for the way he pronounces Kanchibiya. On a very serious note, the hon. Minister refers to Phase I and that the ministry is awaiting its completion, which has stagnated. However, what is true, on the ground, is that there is no Phase I. The only Phase I there is because we took an initiative, as Kanchibiya Constituency, to start the construction of the civic centre using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Otherwise, from the point of view of the Central Government and Phase I, it is a challenge to reconcile, and the more the reason we are saying that we took an initiative from the CDF point of view to start with the civic centre. Before then, the council was operating from church offices.

Madam Speaker, there is no police presence in Kanchibiya, as we speak. I have also raised with the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security that there is no district police station in Kanchibiya and we are using the CDF to try and build one. So, I do not know what constitutes the Phase I that the hon. Minister made reference to. Maybe that will be my first question. It will help me to come up with a follow-up question.

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member may wish to note that phase one that we are talking about in this particular project was as a result of the thirty-three newly created districts. As such, the creation of the entire infrastructure within the various districts was done in a phased-out approach, hence the phase one that needs to happen in all the thirty-three districts. We still had a lag in other districts which are already in existence. I will probably give an example of Sioma, without having to abuse the constituency itself, where the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development is looking at ways on how to conclude those particular districts which were created well before the thirty-three districts that we have.

Madam Speaker, I must make mention also that the process in terms of the bid that was secured was a little bit higher than what the funds allocated for that particular phase one were. This is why in our response, we talked about the cost of each project, which will only be determined once the procurement of the contractor is concluded. Therefore, the time frame is based on when the procurement of the contractor has been done.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, we will place on record that the hon. Minister’s response does not inspire the people of Kanchibiya in the sense that this is a new district that has existed from 2017. We were gratified, not to digress, when the hon. Minister of Health mentioned that the Government would start rolling-out district hospitals starting next year. We would expect some time frame for newly created districts from the Government in terms of infrastructure. This is so because equity demands that we know how to prioritise what we have been given for the Constituency Development and Fund (CDF) and what we expect as an intervention by the central Government. 

Madam Speaker, therefore, in placing it on record, the hon. Minister’s response does not inspire us as the people of Kanchibiya. There is no police presence as we speak. People are committing crimes because they know there is no police presence to follow them through. We are taking initiative through the CDF, but we need juvenile facilities and so on and so forth, for the police to really move in. So, the urgency of the matter is that we need a more concerted and constructive response on this particular matter from the ministry.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Acting hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, do you have any comment?

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, indeed, our Government is one that looks at equity in our development efforts. To just give assurance to the people of Kanchibiya, I wish to state that this phase one will commence as soon as funds are readily available. We will engage the hon. Member of Parliament here. He can come to my office so that we can discuss this over a cup of coffee. I just want to reassure him that we are not going to leave the people of Kanchibiya behind in terms of development.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, I am very concerned with the response by the hon. Minister who is acting and I will explain why. When a project is supposed to be implemented, the first phase is to identify the need. So, the need here is to have a civic centre, police station, and houses. That is phase one.

Madam Speaker, the second phase is to come up with designs and based on those designs, people whom we call quantity surveyors will come up with estimates. They will be able to calculate how much money is needed for certain projects to be implemented. The response from the acting hon. Minister is that the Government does not know the cost of constructing a civic centre, police station or houses because the bidding process has not been concluded.

Madam Speaker, my question to the acting hon. Minister is: Is he telling us that there are no designs? Is he telling us that there are no engineering estimates that can guide how much is needed for these projects to be undertaken?

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I am thankful for that follow-up question. Just to put it on record, I did make mention in my earlier response that the procurement process is underway. I also mentioned that once the contractor has been identified, we should be able to start working on this particular project. So essentially, the designs are in existence and they are there.

Madam Speaker, I must make mention that due to financial constraints, the Government is targeting projects within the thirty-three districts which are 80 per cent completed. Those are the ones where funds are going to go and that is why I abused a district such as Sioma. Probably, to just give comfort to the hon. Member of Parliament for Kamfinsa, the estimated time frame for these particular projects that we are talking about is between twelve and twenty-four months. So within that time period, we should be able see movement with regards to infrastructure development.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, I am sure the challenges for infrastructure development in Kanchibiya that we are discussing are quite historical. They have a history where they are coming from. Considering that where we are coming from, districts such as Kanchibiya were just pronounced as a district without any plans, what is the substantive Government doing to expedite the process of putting up infrastructure for the people of Kanchibiya, since this a caring Government?

 

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, like you may have heard, these districts were pronounced in 2017, many years before the United Party for National Development (UPND) came into office. Obviously, when we talk about projects running between twelve and twenty-four months, we would have expected that this phase one would have been done by our predecessors. However, we are not going to dwell on that for now.

 

Madam Speaker, one thing I would make mention is that we are indeed, looking at how best we could take development to those areas which were claimed to have been developed at the time we were in Opposition. I also just want to make mention that some of the plans and designs which have already been approved in the various districts that we have across the country are there. What we are just requesting for, or rather waiting for, is just the funds to be made available. I did make mention that those funds which are being made available will be prioritised to projects which are 80 per cent completed and above. We do not want to be seeing white elephants where we are at 80 per cent and then we start a green field project which will find itself not being completed in the shortest possible time.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The last one is the hon. Member for Mkushi North.

Mr C. Chibuye (Mkushi North): Madam Speaker, it is actually interesting to hear that money will be found and at an appropriate time, these works will commence. My question, therefore, to the hon. Minister is as follows: What assurance is he giving to the people of Kanchibiya? Looking at how other works in various districts, the thirty-three districts he has talked about, have stalled, what assurance is he giving now to the people of Kanchibiya that the Central Government will find money other than the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) for these works to actually commence at an appropriate time?

 

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, the assurance will be that the Government has budgeted for the infrastructure development of phase one in Kanchibiya District.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

REHABILITATION OF THE CHINSALI/CHILUBANAMA ROAD

226. Mr Mtayachalo asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

1. whether the Government has any plans to rehabilitate the Chinsali/Chilubanama Road which connects Chama to Chinsali District; and
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented.

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to rehabilitate the Chinsali/Chibuluma Road which connects Chama and Chinsali districts.

Madam Speaker, the rehabilitation works of the Chinsali/Chibuluma Road will be undertaken by the Government once the project has been rescoped to fit into the available budget and retendered. The procurement process is expected to commence in the second quarter of 2023.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, just a point of correction. It is not the Chinsali/Chibuluma Road, but the Chinsali/Chilubanama Road.

Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the response. However, how soon does he think the ministry will carry out the assessment because it is less than 20 km from the Great North Road to Chilubanama?

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that correction. It is the Chinsali/Chilubanama Road.

Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chama North for the follow-up question. It is expected that the procurement process will be concluded during the course of 2023 and, thereafter, works will commence.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): Madam Speaker, the fact that the hon. Minister referred to the Chinsali/Chibuluma Road clearly indicates that he did not know what he was talking about.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, can the hon. Minister assure the people of Chama and Chinsali that what he is telling us here is the truth because it could that he was talking about Chibuluma Road and not the Chinsali/Chama Road? So, can the hon. Minister assure us that the answers he is providing us are not misleading, considering that he was talking about the Chibuluma Road?

 

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, the beauty about this House is that we rely on verbatim and as such, I request the hon. Member of Parliament for Chinsali to check the Hansard for the response I gave. The good people in that office will be able to give him the document which suggests that I am responding to the Chinsali/Chilubanama Road.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, our role is to provide oversight and represent our people, and I want to use this privilege to ask a follow-up question.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Can we have order! The voices are becoming loud.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, first of all, I sympathise with the Acting hon. Minister, who may not have all the information. I know he is just reading responses.

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, please, just go straight to your question. Do not describe the hon. Minister. We are not allowed to debate ourselves. Just ask the question.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that there will be a bidding process for the road works, and based on that, resources will be allocated for the project. Which funding model will the Government use? Will it use a loan to finance the road works or money that has been generated through taxpayers?

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, at the risk of sounding pedantic, I will explain exactly the issues pertaining to the Chinsali/Chilubanama Road, and I will give the House supplementary information on the same road. The procurement process for the road began in 2021. However, the bids received for the road exceeded the amount which was budgeted for. So, when we say budgeted for, it simply means it is taxpayers’ money. So, we will use taxpayers’ money and that is the reason we want to rescope the project so that we develop the Chinsali/Chilubanama Road.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The last question will be from the hon. Member for Kankoyo.

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, if it was not for the reckless borrowing which has crippled the economy, would we be struggling to raise more funds to add on the already submitted bids?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question, a very good question for that matter.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikumba: I must make mention that, indeed, without excess borrowing, we would not have been struggling the way we are struggling right now. The people of Chinsali would have been enjoying a nice road connecting to Chama.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, I had ruled that there would be no points of order. Is it possible that you can ask a question?

 

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, I was reluctantly following the hon. Colleague, who understandably is sitting in for the substantive hon. Minister.

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

Mr Kampyongo: We know – we have been there. So, you do not have to say ah.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear! Tell them!

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, the reason we stick to questions is to avoid irrelevance and Standing Order No. 65 points to that effect. The hon. Member for Chama North’s question is very clear. If the hon. Minister wants to start politicking in the manner he is doing, it will be very difficult for the people who expect answers on that road to follow.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member! What is the question?

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister is responding on behalf his colleague. When are the feasibility studies going to be done on the stretch between Chinsali and Chama to connect it through Chilubanama Road? We want –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Please, conclude your question.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, may the hon. Minister be categorical and avoid politicking in a manner he is trying to.

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, earlier this morning, we heard an outcry on your left of people talking about being politicians and politicking and, suddenly, I am being accused of politicking. I am not sure what the issue is there.

Madam Speaker, rescoping of the works has commenced. I mentioned that – and I hope hon. Members are paying attention – the works will start within 2023. As soon as we are done with rescoping, the works will be done afterwards. I am not quite sure what else the hon. Members want to hear.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

The hon. Member for Chama North indicated to ask a question.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chama North, is that your second question?

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, I would like to know from the hon. minister what the scope of work in tender is because he talked about 2021, which I am not aware of.

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I –

Madam Deputy First Speaker: Are you able to answer that question because it is a totally new question?

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I did mention, and I will repeat: The procurement process for the engagement of works commenced in 2021. However, the bids received exceeded the amount which was budgeted for. So, essentially, the scope of works is to make the roads. These are the funds which we are looking at where, maybe, if you want to be more technical, its issues to do with making drainages or maybe putting bridges, but those are some of the issues that we are looking at in terms of the bids that were presented to the ministry and now we are looking at ways on how we can re do them so that they are able to be contained in the budget that has been approved.

I submit, Madam Speaker.

COMPLETION OF CONSTRUCTION OF THE MILENGE POLICE STATION

227. Mr Chonde (Milenge): asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security:

1. when the construction of the Milenge Police Station in Milenge District will be completed; and
2. what the cause of the delay in completing the project is.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, that the construction of the Milenge Police Station will be completed when funds are made available for the project. The Project stalled at forty five percent when Government started considering completing projects that were at 80 percent and above.

Madam Speaker, the cause of the delay is inadequate funding for the project.

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. minister you if he has an idea of when the funds are going to available so that this important project under his ministry can be completed. If the hon. Minister can give an idea when the funds will be available, the people of Milenge can have an idea.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I am not in a position to categorically state when the funds will be made available but I have no doubt in my mind that all of us, as Members of Parliament and in particular the hon. Member of Parliament for Milenge, are expectant that the project is completed. We will make a request through the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to provide funding for the project. You are aware that the policy that only the projects that are at eighty percent and above would get funding was initiated by the Government. We shall be reviewing the policy that has made many projects stall.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lubozha: Madam Speaker, since it was a decision by the Government to firstly deal with projects that were at 80 percent and then later go to those that were below 80 percent. The police post in question in Milenge is outside the threshold. I want to find out if there were any legal implications pertaining to the contractors who were on site carrying out the construction of the infrastructure since it came on the side of Government to discontinue the projects below forty-five percent.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, the contract cancellation is under way for the project. We are discussing with the current contractor so that the Government cannot continue incurring expenses over a stalled project. We are doing that.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chonde: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his responses. Milenge is a district that has a population of well over sixty or seventy thousand and is only manned by a police post. By implication, you understand what a police post can do to supervise society or to discharge the duties of the police. Does the hon. Minister have an order of priorities as far as the ministry is concerned because the district does not have adequate facilities, in particular a police station?

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, let me confirm that we have priorities and our priorities are to ensure that all the stalled projects under the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security are completed. You may have noted that, recently, we completed and opened a police station in Liteta and we will be opening another one in Chibombo, which we are almost completing. We are also completing another one in Chikankata very soon. After we have finalised the other projects we will now concentrate on the others that have stalled. We appreciate the concern hon. member of parliament and you are also aware that the areas we are talking about require the services of the Government in terms of policing.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the responses from the hon. Minister and, indeed, the decision to prioritise projects in percentages was as a result of funding constraints. I just want to find out from the hon. Minister, knowing that apart from Milenge there other new districts whose infrastructure has advanced; police stations and housing, is there a deliberate arrangement the hon. Minister can go into with the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development that can allow hon. Members such as the hon. member for Milenge and others, who are willing, including me, who represents Shiwang’andu Constituency, to apportion some Constituency Development Funds (CDF) to the projects. This would avoid dilapidation which could culminate into escalated costs. Can they be allowed to do that when the status of the project is harmonised between your ministry and the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. member for Shiwang’andu for that question. I would like to bring a report to the House pertaining to the stalled projects under my ministry and to indicate what amounts are required to complete the projects.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Ngowani (Mpongwe): Madam Speaker, most of the stalled projects are exposed to vandalism. What is the ministry doing to protect the infrastructure from vandalism?

Mr Mwiimbu: I thank you Madam Speaker. Hon colleagues, it is difficult for me to undertake any measure that would protect the infrastructure. The request I would make to us, leaders, is to appeal to members of the public where the infrastructure is located to ensure that it is protected. These facilities are intended for the use and benefit of the public in those areas. That is all I can say.

I thank you Madam Speaker

Business was suspended from 1040 hours to 11 00 hours.

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Kang’ombe: Mr Speaker, in his statement, the hon. Minister indicated that works stalled at 45 per cent and that the ministry is currently engaged with the contractor to review the contract to avoid further Government expenses. Is the hon. Minister in a position to inform this august House how much money will be needed–

Mr Mabeta was about to cross the Floor.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Kang’ombe: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security able to inform this House and the people of Milenge how much money will be needed for the works to be completed?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Although I was not in the seat, I think I heard the hon. Minister say he would come to the House with a statement indicating how much is owed for different projects. I think he will not be able to –

Hon. PF Members: Let him answer for himself!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Maybe, the hon. Minister can give an answer.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, you are right. When I was responding to the hon. Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu, I did make an undertaking that I shall come back to this House to indicate the levels of stalled projects and the financing that will be required to complete them. At the moment, I am not in a position to indicate how much money is required.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chala (Chipili): Mr Speaker, first let me state here that because of the competing needs in our economic sectors, there will be no time when a Government official will come here and state that, now, the funds are available. The money will never be sufficient.

Mr Speaker, is the ministry going to consider this project as it looks at the 2024 budget?

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I thought I was very clear in my statement as I was responding to the proposal that was made by the hon. Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu. He suggested that if hon. Members of Parliament are aware and are made known of the cost that is required to complete the projects, then they may be able to chip in and complete the projects.

Sir, I did inform the House that I shall come back and inform the House the cost of the stalled projects so that together, we can find ways and means of completing the project. Some of the projects are 90 per cent complete while others are at 99 per cent, with just a few things left. So, when I come back, you, my ministry, hon. Members, the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development and I will know how to proceed in order for these projects to be completed.

Sir, we should always realise and know that the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is Government funding.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Simutowe (Mbala): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security the difference between a police post and a police station.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, a police post is an establishment that is lower than a police station.

I thank you, Sir.

OPERATIONALISING KASHIME MINE IN MKUSHI DISTRICT

228. Mr. C Chibuye asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

1. when Kashime Mine, owned by First Quantum Minerals Limited in Upper Lunsemfwa/Kanjili area in Mkushi District, will become operational;
2. what the cause of the delay in operationalising the mine is; and
3. what plans the Government has in the event that the mine is not operationalised by the owners.

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Kabuswe): Mr Speaker, the Kashime Copper Mine Project is not wholly owned by First Quantum Minerals (FQM). FQM owns 62.5 per cent while Mimosa Resources Limited owns 37 per cent.

Mr Speaker, the mine is expected to be operational by the end of 2023.

Mr Speaker, the cause of the delay in operationalising the mine is mainly attributed to the marginal ore body grade and the frequent changes in the mining fiscal regime over the past years. This rendered the project sub-economical to operationalise.

Mr Speaker, the plans that the Government has, in the event that the mine does not become operational include invoking the necessary provisions under the Mines and Minerals Act No. 11 of 2015 to remedy the situation.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr C. Chibuye: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that response. It is quite exciting to learn that the mine will be operational by the end of this year. My follow up question, therefore, is: Since the hon. Minister has stated that there are two companies that are going to operate that mine, when does he think the preparations will commence, when it comes to mining activities coming on board in Mkushi District? I understand that for now, they should be able to start preparing the ground for the operations because we are almost in the middle of the year. So, when are they starting the preparations to really excite the people of Mkushi that that mine will be operational?

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, like I said, the disturbance or delay was necessitated by the unstable fiscal regime at the time. So, in terms of preparations, I think, we have to look at their documentation and see or probably ask our officers to go there and check. What we know is that the mine will be operational by 2023.

Mr Speaker, let me clarify that it is not two companies that are going to run this mine. There are two shareholders. So, how they are going to run the mine is according to their programme.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has attributed the delay of the implementation of that mining project in Mkushi to an unstable fiscal regime from the past. When the New Dawn Government came in, it was very clear it needed to rump up production and immediately took steps to encourage the mines to start investing, something that never happened in the previous ten years. First Quantum Minerals (FQM) has already benefitted from the North-Western Province, through its cobalt mining, one of the incentives that this Government has provided. What could be the real reason behind this delay, bearing in mind that we are only remaining with about nine months to get to the end of the year and that mining, as we know, is a very intense business. What does the hon. Minister think is the main reason for this delay?

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, the statement has already given the reason. So, I do not know which other reasons I can give. They could not open because in mining, when you determine the resource, it tells you at what cost you are going to mine every tonne. So, if the policy environment is not stable or is unpredictable – as the hon. Member rightly said, mining is capital intensive, and you want to know whether, if you invest K10 today, for example, there will be no changes in tax and whatever and then you project that you will be able to make a profit. Normally in mining, you may start this year, but you may score a profit maybe three or four years later. When you know that the environment is unstable, it does not make economic sense for you to go into mining.

So, Mr Speaker, for you to go into mining, you mine in an environment like the one the New Dawn Government has put in place; predictability, stability and also knowing that you will make a profit when you invest in that kind of regime.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, looking at what used to happen in the past, you will discover that a lot of mining licences were issued merely for speculative purposes. We saw in the past ten years that people never conducted any mining activities. Would the hon. Minister be in a position to tell us when, exactly, the mining licence for this particular company was issued?

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, I may not give the exact period, unless I get back to the office and get the information on when exactly this mining licence was issued. However, I must hasten to say that the concern from the hon. Member indicates that this licence was given a long time ago and the mine did not go into operation. I can add that it is because of the stable policies and predictability that we have created in the environment.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabuswe: … apart from this mine, there is also the Mkushi Copper Project, Kitumba Project in Mumbwa District and Mwekera Copper Mine on the Copperbelt, among others, still to come.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabuswe: So, this is showing. In fact, I may also add Ming’omba, the one that we are opening in Chililabombwe. The money is actually in the country. They were just confirming to me. They have also employed a Zambian Chief Executive Officer (CEO). So, this is because of the predictability of this economy …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabuswe: … and the stable policies that Hon. Musokotwane and the team at the Ministry of Finance and National Planning and generally the New Dawn Government have put in place. That is why these mines are now becoming operational.

I tell you, Mr Speaker, that these mines begun explorations and stopped because the policies in the previous regime were dancing.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisanga (Lukashya): Mr Speaker, I honestly hope that these new policies are not tantamount to selling our sovereignty.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mulenga: Balilya kale aba! Kuya bebele!

Mr Chisanga: Mr Speaker, my question to the hon. Minister is just for him to confirm to the House whether, during this period, this company has been compliant in paying charges associated with the mine which is not operative.

Mr Samakayi: Question!

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, I want to emphasise that no mine in Zambia is going to operate while abrogating the rules of the licence, especially under the New Dawn Government because it is a Government that respects the rule of law. We are going to follow the Mines and Minerals Act to the letter. So, no mine will operate with a licence that does not follow the law. We are very clear about that. That is why we have grabbed many licences that were given for speculative purposes.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lubozha: Mr Speaker, as the hon. Minister has elaborated, the New Dawn Administration has put in place certain conditions that are remarkable, resounding, and predictable to operationalise the mine in Mkushi.

Mr Speaker, we appreciate the conducive environment his ministry has created through the very trusted and able policies that the New Dawn Administration is currently undertaking.

Mr Speaker, has the ministry sat down with the owners of the mines to tell them what the ministry has put in place, and that they can go ahead so that the people of Mkushi are given the hope to see the meaningful development that is expected when this mine opens? 

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, I am very excited with that kind of questioning because then, it allows me time to actually explain what we are doing to make sure that the mining companies or investors who are in the mining sector begin to answer to the policy environment that this Government has created.

Mr Speaker, firstly, we have set up the mining regulation through the Minerals Commission and the Cabinet will be approving it very soon. It is the first time in Zambia we are having a regulator in the mining sector.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, that will now be a vehicle that we will use to check if people are complying or understating production figures. This will also enable us to check if people are not giving us what we want as the Government. That is the vehicle we are going to use. So, the hon. Member should be comforted that as we put these policies in place, the ministry is also on firm ground to make sure that mining companies abide with the law and that they also answer to the predictable policies that we have put in place.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Petauke Central a chance to ask the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development a follow-up question on behalf of the good people of Mkushi.

Mr Speaker, on those mines which the hon. Minister is saying that they are going to be operationalised this year, did they do a geological survey? How many types of minerals are we expecting, as Zambia, from those two mines?

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, predominately, these are copper mines. However, I think any other details are stated in their licences. If the hon. Member wishes to know, he can visit my office and I will give him the details.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, indeed, it is interesting to listen to the hon. Minister and personally, I have no doubt on my mind that he is equal to the task knowing him as our former hard-working mayor for Chililabombwe under the Patriotic Front (PF).

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Ms Mulenga: Hammer him!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. PF Whip, may you resume your seat. I think as we debate, let us keep calm and avoid abusing each other. Let us stick to the question. The hon. Minister may not be comfortable if you refer to who he was in the past. So, let us just stick to the question.

Ms Mulenga: He was a mayor.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: No! It could be a fact, but let him just ask a question.

Ms Mulenga: He was a hard-working mayor.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: He is a hard-working hon. Minister, by the way.

Ms Mulenga: Even as a mayor, he was hard-working. He implemented the Patriotic Front (PF) policies.

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I am well-guided. Listening to the hon. Minister saying that now, the environment is predictable and everything is in order, if that was a case, my dear hon. Colleague who is sitting here, who comes from where there is the famous Kasenseli Gold Mine, would have been at peace this time around.

Ms Mulenga: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I do not think today, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security would have been rising on a point of order to assure the nation that sugilite from some mine has not gone missing.

Ms Mulenga: Eeee!

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, knowing what has been happening in Mkushi, where people are bumping into the Chinese and getting shares, how sure are we that this abandoned mine in Kashime is safe and no one is looting like it is happening in Luapula, where sugilite is being looted?

Interruptions

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, sometimes, we must look at the man in the mirror as we are making these sugilite allegations and all the illegalities.

Interruptions

Mr Kabuswe: When you are looking in the mirror, see who you look at …

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Yourself!

Mr Kabuswe: … because these issues have got history.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, that is why they are coming up today. Now, they are being exposed because of this transparent Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, this is a transparent Government.

Hon. Government Members: Correct!

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, with regard to Kasenseli Gold Mine, maybe next week, we will announce how transparent that mine will operate. That is why I am saying that when people mention things like Kasenseli Gold Mine and sugilite, they should look at the man in the mirror. Then, they will see who that man in mirror is and what was happening around those assets.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, we are a Government of laws and we respect the rule of law. Since we respect the rule of law, any mine has the responsibility, in accordance with the Mines and Mineral Act, to take care of issues of illegal mining. So, with this very licence, the owners have the responsibility to make sure that there is no illegality around that mine. Like I said, this is a transparent Government. We will, therefore, expose any illegality and arrest people who will be involved in illegal things regardless of who they are.

Mr Speaker, answering the hon. Member’s question, I am saying that the owners of Kashime Mine have the responsibility to make sure there is no illegality. If there is illegal mining, we will invoke the law.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Mr Speaker, earlier on this year, President Hakainde Hichilema made it very clear that we were going to unlock a lot of rigidities. We have seen that the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriageway has been unlocked. The President is in Chikankata today unlocking Zesco Limited. Yesterday, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning assured us that the debt crisis which we have been grappling with will soon be unlocked. We have seen Mimbula Mine being unlocked. We have also seen the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NCZ) coming back to life. The Tanzania/Zambia Crude Oil Pipeline and Indeni Petroleum Refinery Company Limited are being unlocked.

Mr Speaker, should the people of Mkushi doubt the ability of this Government after having seen what it is unlocking?

Mr Kabuswe: Walasa biggie!

Laughter

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for that question. Through the people of Mkushi, the people of Zambia at large, must never doubt the ability of this Government to deliver.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! 

Mr Kabuswe: We are equal to the task. We will keep unlocking and very soon, the way forward on Konkola Copper Mine (KCM) and Mopani Copper Mines (MCM) will be announced. We are unlocking the economy for every Zambian. Whether one belongs to the Opposition or the Ruling party, they will enjoy the unlocking that is taking place in Government. We are also unlocking the debt that was swept under the carpet in some mines. So, –

Hon.  Government Members: Even Chambeshi!

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, Chambeshi Metals is also on the cards. I also want to say that we are unlocking Shaft 28, which was dead in Luanshya, and the report is on my desk. The dewatering is starting. They gave us a period, but we told them that we want it reduced so that the people of Luanshya, the hon. Member for Roan and the hon. Member for Luanshya can begin to enjoy.

Mr Speaker, the Government should never be doubted. We will be able to deliver to the expectations of the people of Zambia.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Seven people have so far asked questions on this question. So, the last one will be from the hon. Member for Nyimba.

Mr Menyani Zulu: Mr Speaker, first and foremost, I am one of the people who does not subscribe to calling Zambians illegal miners. When God was creating planet earth, he gave different people minerals. He gave the Arabs oil, and he gave us copper, precious stones and many other minerals.

Mr Speaker, today, whoever comes in this country, gets a licence, but does nothing with it after thirty years. However, when Zambians engage in mining, they are called illegal miners. The hon. Minister agrees with me that a good number of people, some of whom are here, have mining licences in speculation. They want mining licences, but they do not do anything with the mining rights. A good number of licences have been sold to bogus investors who are holding onto them. In view of this background, which I know the hon. Minister is versatile with, and in the case of Mkushi, does he not have a plan of cancelling licences, which have been dormant, and were given to some people to have mining rights? Licence holders continue renewing their licenses, but they do not put up any investment. However, in this country, there are people who can be given mining rights and can develop the sites, but such people are disadvantaged. Does the Government intend to bring an Act to Parliament so that it can start cancelling licences which are overdue? The hon. Minister agrees with me that he has complaints at his office. A good number of licences are not functioning. This country needs money and somebody cannot hold on to a licence, which is not adding value to us. Does the hon. Minister have any plan to bring an Act to Parliament so that we start grabbing licences, when nothing happens after ten years?

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, we are way ahead and I said that do not doubt the capability of the Government to deliver. We are finalising the statutory instrument that will restrict the number of licences that a person can have to five and it will be put in place. So, we already made an announcement and some people are surrendering because they have seen that the Government is serious. When one is given five licences, he/she must be able to prove that he/she is working. If not, we will grab them. So, before one applies for more than five licences, he/she must first prove that he/she is working and engaging in production. If that is not happening, we will not allow that person to apply for more licences. So, we are already way ahead. We are just waiting for the Ministry of Justice to clean up the SI, then we will announce it to the country.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Mkushi North, the owner of the question, will ask the last question.

Mr C. Chibuye: Mr Speaker, I love the passion and confidence of the hon. Minister as he is deliberating and giving answers.

Mr Speaker, what is the take home message for me as Member of Parliament for Mkushi North, so that the people there can be excited over the development that will be implemented before the end of this year?

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, first and foremost, I draw confidence from the fact that we have a leader in President Hakainde Hichilema, who is focused and serious, and knows what this country needs in taking it forward. So, when I talk like this – in Bemba we say, mumbwe pakulila, ninshi naishiba eko ashintilile, meaning when – what is mumbwe in English?

Hon. Government Members: Hyena!

Mr Kabuswe: When a hyena is making noise, it knows where to get its defence in case you attack it. So, I am confident because I know the leader who the Government has. So, the people of Mkushi should never ever doubt the ability of the Government to deliver. We will ensure that the mine becomes operational, so that our people in Mkushi can see the benefit of having a mine.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

TARRING OF TOWNSHIP ROADS IN CHIMWEMWE CONSTITUENCY

 

229. Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa) (on behalf of Mr A. Banda (Chimwemwe)) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

1. whether the Government has any plans to tar the following township roads in Chimwemwe Parliamentary Constituency:

1. Vanadium and Zircon in Itimpi Ward;
2. Government, in Kamatipa Ward; and
3. Kabala, in Chimwemwe Ward;
4. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
5. if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Mr Speaker, in response to the questions asked by Hon. Allen Banda, I wish to inform this august House that the Government does not have immediate plans to rehabilitate township roads in his constituency due to the highly constrained financial laxity in the road sector.

Madam Speaker, the plans are not yet in place due to the highly constrained road sector financing.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe: Mr Speaker, on behalf of the hon. Member of Parliament for Chimwemwe, who is out of the country, I wish to ask the hon. Minister a follow-up question regarding the yen-year road sector plan.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is on record, on two or three occasions, informing not only this august House, but the public also that the Government is developing a ten-year road sector plan, which will guide how roads will be worked on in different areas. The hon. Member of Parliament for Chimwemwe submitted a list of priority roads to the local authority for onward submission to the ministry. Is the hon. Minister able to indicate when funding for the ten-year road sector plan will be mobilised so that works can commence?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, indeed, I am on record, both on the Floor of the House and elsewhere that the Government has embarked on the ten-year road sector development plan for the country. In terms of the question the hon. Member asked, let me repeat what many hon. Colleagues have said on the Floor so that it is no longer rhetoric. Back in 2013, the Government then, that answers to the name Patriotic Front (PF), decided to let go and cease any development of all projects that were below 80 per cent due to the very reason I am giving now. My colleague, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, just this morning, explained the stages at which his ministry is at dealing with the various per centum of projects that were left by our hon. Colleagues who are now asking questions.

Mr Speaker, we will cross the bridge when we get there. For now, we are cleaning up every untidy and uncompleted transaction. We want to make sure that we put them behind us. As such, it would be imprudent to commence new projects when there are many at various per centum levels that are unattended to.

It is a reality, Mr Speaker, that you cannot climb a tree from the leaves, you can only climb it from the roots. We want to firstly clear off all the pending projects that were left by our hon. Colleagues before we embark on new ones. So, even if we found money today, I want to guarantee my hon. colleague and friend, we would not come to Chimwemwe now simply because the hon. Member has asked that question. We are going to be systematic to make sure that we complete the projects that PF decided to not attend to at all - the ones that were left by the Movement for Multiparty Democracy (MMD) Administration, and those that we also took over from the PF. There is a lot of planning before construction and it has to be done in a systematic approach. We are not going to commence new projects for appeasement purposes.

I thank you.

Mr Kang’ombe: Mr Speaker, I have taken note, on behalf of my hon. Colleague, of the response that the hon. Minister has provided that there are no immediate plans for the roads in Chimwemwe Constituency for the reasons given.

Mr Speaker, the people of Chimwemwe that are tuned in to this conversation would like to find out from the hon. Minister. The issue that has been raised is that of accessibility and allowing our residents to move from point A to B. It may not be a tarred road. What could be the short-term measure, especially the roads that have been identified in Vanadium, Itimpi and Kamatipa, which is an unplanned settlement that obviously requires urgent attention?

So, Mr Speaker, if the Government is not going to do a tarred road for the reasons the hon. Minister has given, what would the short-term measure be? Our people need assurance and I think it is important that we utilise this great opportunity.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, let me thank the hon. Colleague for the follow up question and the emphasis on the fact that the people of Chimwemwe are tuned in. The whole country is tuned in, including the people in Mazabuka, where I come from. Let me use Mazabuka as a case study. The township roads there were left at 20 per cent in 2013. We have not died or picked stones. We understood that at the time the Government had embarked on an unrealistic robust road rehabilitation plan to the extent that prior to their exit, they convinced some of us, in this House, who had not travelled far and wide that certain areas in the country were like paradise. They are on record.

Mr Speaker, today, we have learnt that the whole country is in an emergency situation. That is the status quo. The whole country, not just Chimwemwe. The constituency I represent is disconnected from township to township. That is a fact. So, we are not going to use politics here because people are listening. No, we will not do it.

Mr Mabeta: Point!

Ms Mulenga: Question!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, we have said, time and again, that the modus operandi, the way of doing things that our erstwhile governors; these ones here (pointing at hon. PF Members), the PF, had adopted a way of constructing roads at exorbitant prices where one 10 km road was worth two motor graders. We are now encouraging all hon. Members, including the people of Chimwemwe, to buy about six pieces of road equipment, that is: motor graders, water bowsers, roller compactors and tippers. They must make good of the roads so that they are motorable while we are trying our best to reverse the damage that was done by these ones here (pointing at hon. PF Members).

Mr Mabeta: PF!

Ms Mulenga: Question!

Mr Nkombo: Until such is achieved, Mr Speaker, we have to learn that reality is not an illusion. The whole country is in an emergency situation. The roads that they were talking about, call it L400, C200, ‘C’ means Copperbelt. There was no S200, ‘S’ meaning Southern Province. There was no E200, ‘E’ meaning the Eastern Province. There was no W200, ‘W’ meaning the Western Province. However, there was C200, that is, 200km of roads on the Copperbelt Province. Why should they be the ones to scream the most?

Ms Mulenga: Ah!

Mr Nkombo: The country is under a complete emergency, all of it. There should be no holding people at ransom to say people are listening. That is the purpose for which this House exists. People must understand that there is value in getting truthful leaders.

I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Daka (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, township roads are needed almost countrywide, including in Chadiza. Besides that, they are a bit on the expensive side compared to trunk and main roads for obvious reasons. For township roads, you do not only need to do the major pavement, but you also need to consider that there are pedestrians and the aspect of street lighting, and so on and so forth.

Mr Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister talk about fiscal challenges the Government is facing. This kind of asset is expensive when it comes to execution. Has the Ministry sat down to constitute, more or less, a study division that would look at reducing the cost of doing the road per kilometre?

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member has asked the question because he is an accomplished engineer so I understand where he is coming from. Roads have specs (specifications), and depending on those specifications, the price per kilometre would differ. Spec is an abbreviation for specification.

Mr Speaker, you may recall that during the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), there was the Formula One Project and it had its own specifications. Then came the Patriotic Front (PF), which had the Lusaka 400km (L400) Road Project and the Copperbelt 200km (C200) Road Project which had their own specifications. Today, we are talking about the Ndola/Lusaka Dual Carriageway, which also has its own specifications. So, we have those categories of the costing depending on what kind of road you want to construct. There are ashford roads, bituminous standard roads and there are gravel roads grade one, two or three. The experts can tell you all that and that information is contained in the ministry.

Mr Speaker, truthfully speaking, what I said earlier is what I will say again. Go to places that are bit more organised than we have been, like Namibia. If you go when it is not the rainy season, you may think the whole place is actually tar marked, yet they use salt for most of the periods as we use molasses here. When the rain comes, just that three months causes some stress in terms of dust emissions and the roads. Those are some of the things that we are tinkering around with to make sure that in the meantime, we at least, ameliorate the pain of our people while we are trying to demolish this debt mountain that the Patriotic Front (PF) party created for this country.

Mr Speaker, we are alive to the costs involved in undertaking a road project, but I can confirm with no fear or any amount of contradiction that in the past, just a low-grade gravel road was so expensive to a point where we on your right side are just calling that daylight robbery.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mabeta: Mr Speaker, after the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) was increased last year, we the three hon. Members of Parliament from Mufulira sat dawn and contributed K6.5 million from each constituency to buy earth moving equipment. Hon. Mumba can bear me witness.

Mr Speaker, seeing that Kitwe has five constituencies, is the hon. Minister encouraging the hon. Members from there to also put their money together and buy equipment so that they can quickly attend to the roads in their constituencies?

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, let me applaud the three hon. Colleagues from Mufulira who had that initiative. The President has said this many times; there is value in partnerships. When you look at Kitwe District as a whole, you will see that geographically, it is small. It is minute or petite compared to Kasempa or Kaputa. So, there is value in what the hon. Member of Parliament for Kankoyo is bringing here, that even if they decided, as a matter of fact, to just put K5 million each and not the K25 million they put, they will do wonders in Kitwe, where they will not even bring any questions about township roads. They will be able to, at least, put them into motorable standard of gravel nature. That is what I think.

Mr Speaker, there is no reason in being isolated. The challenges are many. I am sure the people in Chimwemwe are listening. This is the very reason President Hakainde Hichilema, in his wisdom, decide to migrate that constituency development fund from a paltry K1.6 million to K28 million, and we were not paid for two years in the last Parliament. That is phenomenal under any standard unless you just do not want to see the realities of life. Under any standard, that increase is phenomenal. It will be good to optimise the usage of this privilege that you have as an hon. Member of Parliament and do wonders for the people who voted for you because there was a gap. This money was not there, now it is and you are still complaining and coming back to us alebwelela pa mupando. We are saying teti tubwelele panuma meaning–

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, what I am reciting is serious. Saying alebwelela pa mupando is an attempt to demystify the behaviour of not accepting a loss and thinking that we will be back. In short, it is living in denial. We will take them back to 1972 when Godfrey Uka Chitalu was a big star around here. There was a song the same people were singing that teti tubwele panuma meaning we cannot go back, we are going forward.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

CIVIC CENTRE CONSTRUCTION IN MWANSABOMBWE

230. Mr. Kabaso (Mwansabombwe) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

1. when the construction of the civic centre in Mwansabombwe District will be completed;
2. what the cause of delay in completing the project is; and
3. what the cost of the outstanding works is.

The Minister of Tourism (Mr Sikumba) (on behalf of the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi)): Mr Speaker, the construction of the civic centre in Mwansabombwe District will be completed by the fourth quarter of 2023. The delay in completing the project was due to:

1. inadequate budget allocation to infrastructure projects in the previous years;
2. the increased cost of building materials due to the passage of time; and
3. the estimated cost of the outstanding works stands at K2.2 million.

Mr Speaker, may I just give additional information and as a rider to what was earlier presented when the hon. Member for Kanchibiya raised the issue of the civic centre.

Sir, the completion of the construction of a civic centre in Mwansabombwe District has been budgeted for in the 2023 approved budget by my ministry. The contract sum was K5,985.700. To date, K3,809,704.23 has been certified and paid to the contractor whose name is Swadocom Trading. The initial timeframe for the completion of the project was twelve months from the date of commencement which was 10^th December, 2014, with the expected date of completion of 11^th December, 2015. Unfortunately, the project was not completed. However, we are happy that the New Dawn Government has revised the completion date to 31^st December, 2023.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kabaso: Mr Speaker, as the hon. Minister has alluded to, this is a project which has taken quite some time. The people of Mwansabombwe are very pleased to hear that it will be finished in the fourth quarter of this year. However, it is a very sad to say that this is a project where most of the structures have reached 80 per cent to 90 per cent completion. However, people have started vandalising them. I am sure that by the time the contractor moves on site, the Government might find figures which may be different from the estimated cost for the remaining works. Therefore, what measures is the Government going to put in place to make sure that these properties are secured so that people stop vandalising them?

Mr Sikumba: Mr Speaker, I am glad to note that the hon. Member does conquer with the ministry that the works done so far are almost over 80 per cent. We did commit, as the Government, that all projects that are 80 per cent and above complete have to be concluded before we embark on other projects. To answer his question, the ministry will intensify security for those projects and, as mentioned and noticed by the hon. Member, we will engage a contractor to ensure that security is heightened at those projects.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Menyani Zulu: Mr Speaker, I am failing to understand now, looking at the number of projects which stalled, and I think that we have to refer to history because if we do not, we will never learn.

Mr Speaker, ten years ago, the former President, Mr Michael Sata, died. Eleven years ago, he declared Mwansabombwe a district. So, from the last eleven years, that is before Mr Sata took over Government, it is about eight years or so. Is it not? Now, I think we have entered into ten years. What really happened for us to still be talking about these projects being unfinished? We have hon. Members here who used to be hon. Ministers responsible for housing and works. What really happened for this project to not finish? That is the question. If we look at my hon. Colleague there, from Mwansabombwe – I have been to Mwansabombwe and I have worked on that road. What really happened for this project to not finish for the last ten years?

Mr Sikumba: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Nyimba for that amazingly coined question. What really happened in the last ten years of the PF rule? When all these places were earmarked as new districts, all we heard was that a lot of money was pumped in and a lot of procurements and contracts were given out, but we are yet to understand exactly where that money went. However, we, in our new Government, and the Hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning who is seated there, are making sure that all projects that the New Dawn Government embarks on are fully funded and completed in a timely manner and, obviously, making sure that those projects that we complete …

Hon. Government Members: Are of quality!

Mr Sikumba: … are of quality, indeed, thank you very much, are delivered to our people. Looking at how long this project has taken, the hon. Member must give our Government a pat on the back considering that by the end of 2023, it will be concluded. I am certain that the hon. Member of Parliament for Mwansabombwe will be on hand to receive that project and give it to the people of Mwansabombwe.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chisanga: Mr Speaker, may I confirm one thing that the hon. Minister himself confirmed, that in regard to this contract that we are talking about, the contractor was actually paid the money in full. So, there is no money that is outstanding on this project.

Mr Speaker, if the hon. Minister decides to proceed with the completion he said he is going to do, does he intend to use the same contractor in this instance or he will change?

Mr Sikumba: Mr Speaker, I think I was very clear in my submission that the estimated cost of the outstanding works is K2.2 million.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Lubozha: Mr Speaker, the people of Chifubu, in particular, and the people of Zambia, in general, have been listening to the deliberations that have been going on since morning in this honourable House. There are a number of projects that we have discussed to have stalled as a result of a lack of funding or the misappropriation of funds either by the people who were there or the contractors. What is the ministry doing pertaining to this project that stalled either due to the money being misappropriated or a lack of funding, because we smell something fishy? There is no way a project could have been started ten years ago, but up to now has not been finished. Money from every calendar cycle was being allocated to this project, but it has not been completed to date. Why is the ministry taking long to prosecute the wrongs? The people of Zambia want to know because if the culprits are there and are allowed to go scot-free, they will never learn.

Mr Mwene: Some of them are here!

Ms Mulenga: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lubozha: Mr Speaker, the people of Chifubu want to know why it is taking so long to prosecute those who are on the wrong side, and have contributed to those projects being stalled. For once, the New Dawn Government should do something.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, there was a concern, a question that was raised by the Hon. Member of Lukashya that I think was not fully attended to.

Mr Sikumba: Mr Speaker, apologies for not having concluded answering that question. If I am not mistaken, the follow-up question was whether we will continue with the same contractor. The answer is: yes. We will continue with that same contractor until he concludes his given project.

Mr Speaker, going to the follow-up question from Hon. Lubozha regarding prosecution, I do believe that our Government has intensified the process of having to prosecute those people who may have swindled the Government Treasury. I do realise that one of the steps we have taken, as noticed from our hon. Colleague from the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, has been to cancel certain projects that were contracted. We over procured when, in actual sense, the funds were not made readily available. However, to answer his question as to what the Government is doing with regard to stalled projects, I repeat; all those projects which are 80 per cent and above complete are being looked into seriously by the Treasury. With the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Dr Musokotwane, who is here, we should be able to conclude most of those projects and I can assure the hon. Member that this Government is not going to sit idle or wait to prosecute those people sooner rather than later; those prosecutions will be done.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kabaso: Mr Speaker, the people of Mwansabombwe would like the hon. Minister to be specific on when exactly or in which month in the fourth quarter, knowing that it will be raining. Can he be specific because if it will be raining, it might be difficult, again, for the contractors to finish on time? When exactly and in which month in the fourth quarter will the contractor move on site and finish the project?

Mr Sikumba: Mr Speaker, I am not quite certain how the hon. Member would like us to put a hard date on the completion. I would have thought that end of the fourth quarter of 2023 would have sufficed. However, I must make mention that the current progress for that particular project we are talking about is not a cause for concern per say, considering that the civic centre has been roofed and the ceiling has been done already, 90 per cent of the tiling of the civic centre and the houses have been done and 70 per cent of the grazing of the civic centre has been done. Two high-cost houses have been roofed and the ceiling has been done, 60 per cent of the interior painting of the two housing units has also been done. So, I do not think that there is a source of concern when we want the rains. I think we all want the rains even in Mwansabombwe during the December period so that the people there can grow as much grain as they possibly can for our export.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Mulenga: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Ms Mulenga: Mr Speaker, my point of order is on Mr Mwene, the hon. Member for the Mangango.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member claims that there are thieves in this House. This is an honourable House and these hon. Members are under your watch. If there are thieves in here, it means that even the presiding officers are thieves because they are harbouring thieves.

Interruptions

Ms Mulenga: Is he in order to say that when the sugilite thieves are outside? They are being kept and have not been prosecuted. Why should he come and claim that in this honourable House, which is under you, Hon. Speaker, and other presiding officers, there are thieves? Are you harbouring thieves, Mr Speaker?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: At times, when you are seated here, you may not hear what some voices out there are saying. So, I did not hear that, but if he said it, definitely – I think the best way to address or review this point of order is to reserve my ruling for now, ...

Ms Mulenga: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: ... so that we try to look at it critically. However, I just want to advise hon. Members not to use the language that is unparliamentary in this House.

Ms Lungu (Chawama): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the responses. If there was any wrong committed in the past, why are we continuing with the same contractor?

Interruptions

Mr Sikumba: Mr Speaker, I am not quite certain if I did actually say the contractor was a problem in this case.

Laughter

Mr Sikumba: Mr Speaker, the issue here was in regard to the deal. The Government over procured. So that contractor was on site and was only waiting for funds. The United Party for National Development (UPND) Government is, indeed, going to pay the remainder of the K2.2 million for the completion of the project in Mwansabombwe Parliamentary Constituency.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

PLANS TO CONSTRUCT A STADIUM IN MONGU DISTRICT

231. Mr Amutike (Mongu Central) asked the Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts:

1. whether the Government has any plans to construct a stadium in Mongu District;
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
3. what the seating capacity of the stadium will be.

The Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts (Mr Nkandu): Mr Speaker, before I answer the question, I want to be given an opportunity to congratulate the Zambia National Soccer Team ...

Mr Mwene: Under the UPND Government!

Interruptions

Mr Nkandu: ... for beating Lesotho 3:1, and this has really increased our hopes of qualifying for the Africa Cup of Nations (AFCON). As you are aware, the last time we qualified was in 2015. I also want to thank the hon. Members of Parliament and hon. Ministers who physically went to Ndola to Mwanawasa Stadium to cheer the team. I also want to thank those could not make it because the quorum would have collapsed in this House. I want to thank them for their support.

Mr Speaker, having said that, let me now get to the question. It is like today, we will only be talking about stalled projects. I am saying so because even the question I am about to tackle is about a stalled project. The hon. Member for Mongu Central, Mr Amutike, wanted to know whether the Government has any plans to construct a stadium in Mongu District, which was abandoned in 2013.

Mr Mwene: By whom?

Mr Nkandu: Who else?

Laughter

Mr Nkandu: Mr Speaker, the area hon. Member of Parliament may wish to note that it is the Government’s desire to construct an ultra-modern stadium in Mongu, Western Province.

Mr Speaker, plans to resume construction of the ultra-modern stadium in Mongu will commence, obviously, when funds are available because we do not want to be part of the under ninety-five assurances that we were treated with in this Parliament. So, when funds are available, we will be able to continue the project.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament may also wish to note that the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts is currently engaging the private sector for alternative sources of funding to facilitate the construction of a stadium through a Public-Private Partnership (PPP) as we look for the money. I repeat that we are also engaged in finding alternative sources of funding.

Mr Speaker, once constructed, the seating capacity for this ultra-modern stadium in Mongu will be 20,000.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Tayengwa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has not stated how much it will cost to construct a stadium that will house about 20,000 people.

Mr Nkandu: Mr Speaker, the question was very clear. It was on whether the Government has plans to construct a stadium and I wish to say that yes, the Government has plans to do so. If there was a question on how much is going to be spend on the stadium, I would have answered. However, I will volunteer an answer. The contract for the Mongu ultra-modern stadium, which was awarded, as I said in 2013, was given to Wah Kong Enterprises Limited. This is additional information and the contract sum was K294,111,860.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Menyani Zulu: Mr Speaker, firstly, I will not congratulate the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts because he went to watch football alone. So, I will not congratulate him; I will just congratulate the Zambia National Football Team. Secondly, we are talking about a stadium, and we all need stadia in our respective districts. Therefore, the hon. Minister needs to look for money to see to it that there is a stadium in Nyimba with at least a 2,000 or 5,000 seating capacity, and we will appreciate.

Mr Speaker, according to the hon. Minister’s answer, the contract to construct the stadium was awarded to Wah Kong Enterprises Limited in 2013. What happened between 2013 and today? Why was the stadium not constructed because I recall that the contractor even moved on site? So, what happened between 2013 and now? What happened after the demise of the former President Mr Micheal Chilufya Sata?

Mr Nkandu: Mr Speaker, indeed, congratulatory messages should come from someone’s heart. If the hon. Member does not want to congratulate us, who are we to say he should, but I know that inside his heart, he is congratulating us, as the New Dawn Government, for the efforts that we have made so far in promoting the sport.

Mr Speaker, in answering the question, yes, we saw the late President, may his soul rest in peace, at the ground-breaking ceremony for the project in Mongu in 2013. However, I think these are the questions that his neighbours would have answered properly. Obviously, the Leader of the Opposition, my big brother, would be able to assist us. Indeed, after the demise of late President Sata, many projects stalled. So, all of us should question why all the projects that were started by the late President, Mr Micheal Sata, stalled. Everyone should ask questions. However, what is important is to look for resources and continue with the project. We must not cry over spilled milk. All we can do is forget about what happened, but we will continue asking questions.

Mr Speaker, the contractor was given K300,000. To that effect, he cleared land, tested the saws, designed drawings, connected power to the site, sunk a borehole and worked on temporally roads. After that, maybe, our colleagues had no plans to find resources to continue from where President Micheal Sata ended. However, I assure the hon. Member for Mongu Central that in our Infrastructure Development Plan for 2022/2026, which hon. Members of Parliament should take keen interest to see, the Mongu Stadium is a priority. So, we will make sure that we look for resources. When we say we are looking for public private partnerships (PPPs), we are not saying that we do not have plans to mobilise resources. We will do that, but we also need to find alternative sources of funding so that we do not overborrow, like our colleagues did.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Amutike: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that answer, for the people of Mongu Central.

Mr Speaker, as the hon. Minister correctly pointed out, the groundbreaking ceremony was done in 2013. So, since 2013, the people of Mongu have been waiting for the stadium, and they are frustrated with the pace at which the project is moving. Can the hon. Minister assure the people of Mongu that this time around, they will not feel duped like they feel now because of what happened during the reign of our colleagues seated over there? Can the hon. Minister assure the people of Mongu that the stadium will, this time around, be constructed?

Mr Nkandu: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the follow-up question. As I said earlier, I assure him that in our infrastructure Development Plan for 2022/2026, Mongu Stadium is a priority. In fact, if he looked at our plan, he would see that there is a stadium in Livingstone which is also a priority. As we look forward to hosting the Africa Cup of Nations (AFCON), we will have no choice but to ensure that we construct more stadia in Mongu and Livingstone. So, as I said, we will make sure that we mobilise resources, and I will obviously whisper to my counterpart in the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to see how best – maybe, next year, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning will be able to assist us so that we increase the budget for my ministry and put up many multi-sports facilities across the country.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, the quorum has collapsed by two hon. Members. Ring the bells.

Business was suspended from 1227 hours until 1228 hours.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

May the hon. Minister, continue.

Mr Nkandu: Mr Speaker, I was assuring the hon. Member for Parliament for Mongu Central that in our Infrastructure Development Plan 2022/2026, Mongu Stadium is a priority, and we will make sure that by 2026, it is worked on. However, we are very cautious. As I said earlier, we do not want to be among the 195 assurances. When money is available, we will make sure that between that time and 2026, we construct a stadium in Mongu.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lubozha: Mr Speaker, on behalf of the people of Chifubu, I thank the hon. Minister for Youth, Sport and Arts for the sports kits he sent to them. They are very grateful.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubozha: Surely, this is just a replica of what the Government is trying to do in our country that has made the New Dawn Administration stand firm and unshaken to the extent that it is succumbing to the Bemba adage which says imbwa ukubosa insofu, ninshi ilepwisha ichitendwe, meaning for a dog to bark at an elephant, it is wasting its precious time. So, all those who are expecting to uproot the New Dawn Government are wasting their time.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubozha: Mr Speaker, in his preamble, the hon. Minister mentioned that he was making concerted efforts in bringing in other co-operating partners to supplement the effort of seeing the construction of the Mongu Stadium become a reality. Is the hon. Minister in a position to mention some of the co-operating partners that are coming on board and likely to help us? If any, how far has he gone with the discussions?

Mr Nkandu: Mr Speaker, indeed, we are motivated when we do the right thing and are commended.  If you remember very well, it is in this House where I told all the hon. Members that because of the increment on sports equipment, we would be able to give out sports equipment to Members of Parliament. What we are doing is what we promised. This is the beauty about the New Dawn Administration; when it promises, it always fulfils.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkandu: We will continue fulfilling what we are promising.

Mr Speaker, let me also take advantage of this opportunity to say to the hon. Members of Parliament that have not collected the equipment, should next week make sure that they go to the ministry and collect so that we close the chapter and do other things.

Mr Speaker, coming to the question, I may not be able to divulge any information about who may partner with us. I do not want to jeopardise the discussions we are having. When the time comes, obviously, I will come and tell the House who we will partner with or how we can mobilise resources as a ministry, through the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, and continue with the project.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

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BILLS

THIRD READING

The following Bills were read the third time and passed:

The National Pension Scheme (Amendment) Bill, 2023

The Rural Electrification Bill, 2023  

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MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Defence and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Lufuma): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

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The House adjourned at 1234 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 28^th March, 2023.

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