Friday, 31^st March, 2023

The House met at 0900 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM SPEAKER

SURVEY ON SERVICE DELIVERY AT NATIONAL ASSEMBLY MEMBERS’ MOTEL

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, the National Assembly of Zambia is conducting a survey whose aim is to determine service delivery at the National Assembly Members’ Motel. The survey is designed to capture feedback relating to the facilities and services at the motel.

In this regard, a self-administered questionnaire will be distributed in the House, today, Friday, 31^st March, 2023. Hon. Members are requested to complete the questionnaires and deposit them at the main reception desk before the House adjourns sine die later, today.

I thank you.

ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I have received communication to the effect that in the absence of Her Honour the Vice-President, who is attending to other Government Business, the Minister of Defence, Hon. Ambrose L. Lufuma, MP, has been appointed Acting Leader of Government Business in the House.

I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

COURTESY CALL BY THE VICE-PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, MADAM KAMALA HARRIS, ON HON. MADAM SPEAKER

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I inform the House that the Vice-President of the United States of America, Madam Kamala Harris, will this afternoon pay a courtesy on the Hon. Madam Speaker as part of her official visit to Zambia. This announcement is for the information of the House.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

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RULINGS BY MADAM SPEAKER

POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY HON. B. M. MUNDUBILE, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION, AGAINST DR S. MUSOKOTWANE, HON. MINISTER OF FINANCE AND NATIONAL PLANNING, FOR MISLEADING THE HOUSE AND THE NATION ON THE ROLE OF THE CONSORTIUM IN THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE PROPOSED LUSAKA/NDOLA DUAL CARRIAGEWAY

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members will recall that on Thursday, 16^th March, 2023, when the House was considering the Motion of Thanks to the President’s Address on National Values and Principles, and Dr S. Musokotwane, Hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, was debating, Hon. B. M. Mundubile, Leader of the Opposition, raised a point of order against Dr S. Musokotwane, MP. At the time, Dr S. Musokotwane, MP, was questioning the sentiments by some members of the public that the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) should not fund the consortium constructing the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriageway.

The point of order was premised on Standing Order 65 of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021, which requires hon. Members to ensure that the information they bring to the House is factual and verifiable. In his point of order, Hon. B. M. Mundubile, MP, stated that the public was concerned that, previously, NAPSA had funded the construction of some roads through the National Road Fund Agency (NRFA). He, therefore, asked whether Dr S. Musokotwane, MP, was in order to insist that what he was doing was right when NAPSA could fund the construction of the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriageway through NRFA, instead of the consortium.

In his immediate response, the Hon. Mr Second Deputy Speaker reserved his ruling in order to study the matter and render a measured ruling. I have studied the matter and will now render my ruling.

I wish to begin by reminding hon. Members of the purpose of a point of order. Standing Order 131 (1) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders 2021 is instructive in this regard. It provides as follows:

“131.

1. A member who is of the opinion that the rules of procedure have been breached by another member may raise a Point of Order.”

Hon. Members, from the foregoing provision, it is clear that a point of order is used to bring to the attention of the House a breach of procedure or the rules of the House.

Hon. Members, a scrutiny of Hon. B. M. Mundubile, MP’s, point of order revealed that he used it to present a different position from the hon. Minister regarding the financing of the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriageway by NAPSA. While he asserted that the hon. Minister was misleading the House, his assertion was not that the hon. Minister had presented a different position to the House earlier or the hon. Minister’s position was contrary to the Government’s position. Rather, his assertion was that the hon. Minister’s position was different from that of the public, which was for NAPSA to fund the road directly through NRFA. In other words, he was expressing his and the public’s view regarding the role NAPSA should play in financing the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriageway.

As earlier stated, a point of order is intended to raise a procedural breach. It, therefore, cannot be used to raise a contrary or divergent position on a matter. Instead, an hon. Member who has a contrary view on any issue should indicate to debate. In view of the foregoing, the point of order is not admissible.

Hon. Members, I have observed a growing tendency by hon. Members to use points of order to debate. That is an abuse of a point of order. There are various avenues available to hon. Members to express their opinions on matters. These include Motions and questions. Therefore, going forward, I will not entertain any attempt to debate through a point of order.

I thank you.

POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR G. G. NKOMBO, HON. MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT, AGAINST HON. B. M. MUNDUBILE, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION, AND MR S. KAMPYONGO, PATRIOTIC FRONT PARTY WHIP, FOR ALLOWING MEMBERS OF THE PATRIOTIC FRONT PARTY TO ABSCOND FROM SITTINGS OF THE HOUSE

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members will recall that on Thursday, 16^th March, 2023, when the House was considering the Motion of Thanks to the President’s Address on National Values and Principles, and Mrs S. Masebo, hon. Minister of Health, had just concluded debating, Mr G. G. Nkombo, hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, raised a point of order. The point of order was against Hon. B. M. Mundubile, Leader of the Opposition and Mr S. Kampyongo, Patriotic Front (PF) Whip.

In his point of order, Hon. G. G. Nkombo, MP, cited Standing Order 49 of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021, which sets out the duties of a Party Whip or Whip, in the House. In particular, he inquired whether Hon. B. M. Mundubile, MP, and Mr S. Kampyongo, MP, were in order to allow hon. Members of the PF party to merely register in order to earn an allowance and, thereafter, abscond from the House, the previous day, bringing the business of the House to the brink of collapse. The relevant part of Standing Order 49 provides as follows:

“Duties of Party Whip or Whip

            49.       The duties of a Party Whip or Whip includes –

1. ensuring attendance and participation of party or Independent members in the House;”

The import of the foregoing is that a Party Whip has the duty to ensure the attendance and participation of hon. Members of his or her party in the House.

In his immediate reaction to the point of order, the Hon. Mr Second Deputy Speaker reserved his ruling in order to appreciate the matter and render a measured ruling. Hon Members, I have since studied the matter and will now render my ruling.

Hon. Members, the point of order raises the issue of the duty of Party Whips or Whips to ensure the attendance of the hon. Members of their party in the House.

Hon. Members, I had recourse to the verbatim record of the proceedings of the material day. I also had recourse to the relevant video footage, in order to ascertain what had transpired on that day. Indeed, at the time Hon. G. G. Nkombo, MP, was raising his point of order, at approximately 1818 hours, there were very few hon. Members of the PF party in the House. The video footage also shows that the hon. Members did not leave the House soon after registering, as alleged by Hon. G. G. Nkombo, MP, but left after the Business of the House was well under way. They, therefore, did not just register their presence and leave as alleged in the point of order.

It was also apparent that their departure from the House did not affect the Business of the House because the quorum required to transact business was maintained. Therefore, Hon. B. M. Mundubile, MP, and Hon. S. Kampyongo, MP, did not breach their respective duties. In that regard, they were not out of order.

I thank you.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Maybe, I can resume my seat so that the hon. Members who are outside can come in.

Madam Speaker resumed her seat.

Hon. Members walked into the Assembly Chamber.

Madam Speaker: We can continue.

POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR S. KAMPYONGO, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR SHIWANG’ANDU CONSTITUENCY, AGAINST DR S. MUSOKOTWANE, MP, HON. MINISTER OF FINANCE AND NATIONAL PLANNING, FOR ALLEGING THAT THE 2022 BUDGET SPEECH SUPERCEDED THE CREDIBILITY OF ALL BUDGETS SINCE INDEPENDENCE

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, the House will recall that on Thursday, 23^rd March, 2023, the House was considering the Motion to adopt the Report of the Planning and Budgeting Committee on the Review of the Third and Fourth Quarter Performance of the 2022 Budget for Selected Ministries and Provinces. The House will further recall that when Dr S. Musokotwane, MP, hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, was responding to issues raised on the report by hon. Members, Mr S. Kampyongo, hon. Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu Constituency, raised a point of order against Dr S. Musokotwane, MP, based on Standing Order 65 (1) (b).

In his point of order, Mr S. Kampyongo, MP, inquired whether Dr S. Musokotwane, MP, was in order to ignore the report and claim that since independence, the only Budget with credibility was the 2022 Budget, thus, suggesting that Budgets that he, himself, had presented to the House when he was hon. Minister of Finance under the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) lacked credibility.

Hon. Members, in her immediate response, the Hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker reserved her ruling. I have since studied the matter and will now render my ruling.

Hon. Members, Mr S. Kampyongo, MP’s, point of order was premised on Standing Order 65 (1) (b) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021. Standing Order 65 on content of speech provides as follows:

“65.    

1. A member who is debating shall –

1. ensure that the information he or she provides to the House is factual and verifiable.”

Hon. Members, in investigating the matter, I had recourse to the verbatim record of the proceedings of Thursday, 23^rd March, 2023. The verbatim record revealed that the hon. Minister stated as follows:

“…I have to be frank and tell you that for the first time since independence, the credibility of the 2022 Budget tops the list.”

It is clear from the foregoing statement that the hon. Minister neither ignored the report nor discredited the other budgets that had passed through this House, since independence, as alleged by Mr S. Kampyongo, MP. Rather, the hon. Minister merely stated that the 2022 Budget topped the list or in other words was the most credible. This did not in any way mean previous Budgets had not been credible.

Hon. Members, in view of the foregoing, Dr S. Musokotwane, MP, was not out of order.

I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR J. J. MWIIMBU, HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, AGAINST MR N. CHILANGWA, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR KAWAMBWA CONSTITUENCY, FOR ALLEGING THAT SUGILITE HAD GONE MISSING IN KABWE

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members will recall that on Friday, 24^th March, 2023, when the House was considering Matters of Urgent Public Importance, and Mr N. Chilangwa, hon. Member of Parliament for Kawambwa Constituency, was on the Floor, Mr J. J. Mwiimbu, MP, hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, raised a point of order against Mr N, Chilangwa, MP, premised on Standing Order 65 (1) (b) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021.

In his point of order Hon. J. J. Mwiimbu, MP, inquired whether the hon. Member was in order to allege that the sugilite that was impounded in Kabwe had gone missing.

Hon. Members, in her immediate response, the Hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker reserved her ruling in order to study the matter. I have since studied the matter and will now render my ruling.

Hon Members, the point of order raises the issue of a Member’s duty to ensure that the information he/she provides to the House, when debating, is factual and verifiable, a requirement that is well known to all Members.

Standing Order 65 (1) (b) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021, provides as follows:

“(1) A member who is debating shall –

(b) ensure that the information he or she provides to the House is factual and verifiable.”

In view of the foregoing, I had recourse to the verbatim record of the proceedings of Friday, 24^th March, 2023, on the Matters of Urgent Public Importance segment, in order to determine whether the alleged statement was made by Mr N. Chilangwa, MP.

Hon Members, the verbatim record reveals that Mr N. Chilangwa, MP, when raising a matter of urgent public importance, alleged that K750 million worth of sugilite had gone missing from a police station.

Hon. Members, I have taken note of the fact that Mr N. Chilangwa, MP, did not produce any documentary or cogent evidence, as envisaged by Standing Order 65, to support his allegation that K750 million worth of sugilite had gone missing. As a matter of fact, Hon J. J. Mwiimbu, MP, when raising his Point of Order stated that the sugilite had been secured by the Provincial Joint Security Committee.

I also take cognisance of the fact that the Hon. Minister was speaking from a place of knowledge owing to the fact that the Provincial Joint Security Committee falls under his shared portfolio function with the Hon Minister of Defence.

Hon Members, in view of the foregoing, I find Mr N. Chilangwa, MP, in clear violation of Standing Order 65 (1) (b) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021, and, therefore, out of order.

Finally, I wish to seize this opportunity to caution Members against making unsubstantiated and unverified statements in the House. This is because such statements have the potential to mislead the House and the public at large.

I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kawambwa, you know that newspapers are not evidence, they are just hearsay.

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MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

Hon Members rose.

Are all these Matters of Urgent Public Importance?

Hon. Members: Yes.

Madam Speaker: Okay, then let us hear them. I hope, hon. Members, you are aware of the criteria for bringing up a matter of urgent public importance. There is the hon. Member for Kabwata, the hon. Member for Chama North, the hon. Member for Mpika, the hon. Member for Sioma, the hon. Member for Mkaika, the hon. Member for Mitete and the hon. Member for Mwembezhi. Those will be all.

MR TAYENGWA, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR KABWATA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, MR MWIIMBU, ON THE ABDUCTION AND KILLING OF CHILDREN

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, I rise on a matter of urgent public importance directed at the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Madam Speaker, if you check the news of yesterday and today, we are greeted with disturbing news, especially in my constituency, where we have heard that three children from different schools were abducted by those blood thirsty monsters who are in the habit of even going to the extent of killing children.

Madam Speaker, parents out there, including myself and some of these hon. Members of Parliament, who have children who are go to school are worried and do not even know whether they should allow their children to go to school because of the activities that have been happening, especially in the past two days.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security in order to keep quiet without saying anything to that effect, especially that it is not only your children or grandchildren, but also the children of many citizens who are worried?

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious indulgence.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Let us listen to the points that are being raised. The hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, there is a concern over the continued killing of children. It has been reported in several newspapers, and the hon. Member is getting worried. Is there anything that you can say on this matter?

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, I am surprised that my hon. Colleague can say that I am just quietly seated here without making a statement, yet he knows that you were on the Floor and I could not make a statement without being given the opportunity to make it. Let us not abuse these facilities on the Floor of the House.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I take note of that matter of urgent nature. I assure the nation that the Zambia Police Service, in conjunction with other security wings of the Government, is on the ground investigating those matters. The hon. Member may have noted that two children were killed in the last one month and the perpetrators of all those heinous acts were arrested.

Madam Speaker, I also wish to appeal to members of the public, including the hon. Member for Kabwata, to work with communities. The perpetrators of these acts are within communities. Let us identify anyone who looks suspicious and who we think is involved in such activities. Let them be reported to the security wings.

Madam Speaker, it does not help to wait to come to the House to raise a point of urgent nature. It is our responsibility, as leaders, to ensure that our people are safe.

I also want to state, Madam Speaker, that the Zambia Police Service has constituted a programme called Community Policing. We would like to urge the leaders in communities to work with the police in order to curb those vices. It is not only the vice the hon. Member indicated, but also, we have noted that there are individuals who are agitating for trouble to ensure that there is civil strife in the country. Yesterday, some individuals were heard agitating that members of the public rise up. I want to warn those who are agitating unrest in the country that the long arm of the law will catch up with them.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, if they have a grievance, there are procedures of following-up on those grievances. It does not help anyone to start agitating for unrest in this country. We only have one country, which we cherish. We cannot allow anyone to cause unrest in this country.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chisopa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, I rarely rise on points order. The question that the hon. Member for Kabwata raised was on the abduction and killing of our children.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has veered off the topic and has started warning the people who are talking about protests. Is he in order to veer off the issue that was raised and start threatening the community, when we are talking about the rule of law, people’s rights, and that they can demonstrate when they are given permission by the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, my point of order is based on Standing Order No. 65.

Madam Speaker: Oh, oh, thank you very much, hon. Member for Mkushi South, for the point of order but unfortunately, you did not cite the breach.

Hon. Opposition Members: He has cited!

Madam Speaker: No! Do not cite on behalf of hon. Members. Can we have some order.

What breach has been committed? You did not cite any breach, although you have raised a point of order –

Mr Chisopa: Standing Order No. 65(2), Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: No, no, you cannot do that now. I am already making a ruling. Please, hon. Members, as you stand up to raise points of order, cite the breach. From what the hon. Minister was saying, I do not know what breach was committed in the process. He was just appealing to the hon. Members or to all of us to work with the police to ensure that our children or grandchildren, for us who have grandchildren, are not killed in the process. Please, let us work together with the police. We only have one Zambia; let us preserve it and live in peace with each other.

Hon. Kampyongo, you want to say something?

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, it is a follow up question.

Madam Speaker: Sorry, hon. Member for Shiwang’andu.

Mr Kampyongo: Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is understood. It is all the same.

Madam Speaker, the concern raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwata is a grave one. Speaking about him, it reminds us of when we came here as Backbenchers, nakuzingwa there. As Backbenchers of the Ruling Party, we are supposed to hold the Frontbench accountable. So, he is on firm ground.

Madam Speaker, this issue is a very serious one. On the Copperbelt, I think last week in Kitwe, parents were trying to gang up and protest because those people whose children are jumping on buses to go to school will have to make sure that the children who are boarding and disembarking from the buses are sharing buses. The children are not even allowed to walk the distances from where they are disembarking from the buses.

Madam Speaker, further, the attacks on ordinary citizens are now getting out of hand. We were at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) with Hon. Kalalwe Mukosa just the other day to see a gentleman close to him, who was clobbered just here in Northmead when some people tried to snatch a few things that he was carrying. What specific measures is the ministry putting in place to curb this?

Yes, we have heard the hon. Minister requesting members of the community to collaborate with the Zambia Police Service, but what specific measures is the ministry putting in place to ensure that children and other citizens are protected from perpetrators of violence? What measures have been put in place to stop people from stealing properties? Madam Speaker, if nothing is done, we are playing with a timebomb.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I thank my hon. Colleague, the Member for Shiwang’andu, for that concern and question. As I said earlier, I did appeal to members of the public to work with the Zambia Police Service and other security agencies to ensure that the perpetrators of these heinous acts are brought to book. That is the most important thing. It is the source of information and intelligence. Once we do that, the police will be able to move in. As I indicated, the perpetrators of these acts are from our communities. They live with us and communities know these suspicious characters who are carrying out these acts.

Madam Speaker, the Zambia Police Service is also ensuring that foot patrols at night are undertaken to ensure that the lives of our people are protected. I would like to mention here that as we undertake these measures, members of the public will be inconvenienced. Do not complain when we undertake stringent measures to protect the lives of our people. I will not go further because I will be arming the perpetrators of these vices,

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

MR MTAYACHALO, HON. MEMBER FOR CHAMA NORTH, ON MR NKOMBO, HON. MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT, ON PENSION BENEFITS NOT BEING PAID FOR FORMER ZESCO LIMITED AND LASF EMPLOYEES

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, the matter of urgent public importance I wish to raise is directed at the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development.

Madam Speaker, I am a bearer of a message of distress from former workers of Zesco Limited and local authorities, who have not been paid their pension benefits. Most of them have died, and many lives are at stake. This is because they are not able to cope with the high cost of living because they have not been paid their pension benefits.

Madam Speaker, further, the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF) has not been paying annuities. An annuity is a pension payment which is paid annually. For the past two years now, LASF has not been paying these former workers. Furthermore, I am aware that LASF has been facing severe financial challenges because it is not allowed to recruit new members following the birth of the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) in 2000. Therefore, it is unable to meet its financial obligation.

Madam Speaker, I seek your guidance before we lose many former workers who provided dedicated and distinguished service to this nation.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chama North, the matter that you have raised is not of a recent occurrence. The issue of payment of pension and the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF) benefits has been ongoing for a long time.

I urge the hon. Member to engage the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development to see how these members can be assisted. As for admissibility, the matter is not admitted because it is not of recent occurrence.

MR MANDANDI, HON. MEMBER FOR SIOMA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT, MR NKOMBO, ON THE CONTRACTOR WHO LEFT BARE TRENCHES ON THE STRETCH FROM MATEBELE, KALONGOLA UPTO KALENGE

Mr Mandandi (Sioma): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madan Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mandandi: Madam Speaker, my matter of urgent public importance is directed at the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development.

Madam Speaker, some time in 2020, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government did engage –

Hon. PF Members: 2020?

Mr Mandandi: Listen! Iwe, ninshi? What is your problem?

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member.

Just come to the recent event, if there is any. Do not give historical perspectives.

Mr Mandandi: I am well-guided, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Mandandi: Madam Speaker, a company called Omni Contractors Limited that was engaged to put light gravelling on a stretch of 26 km in my constituency, from Matebele, Kalongola to Kalenge, did trench excavation in readiness for installation of culverts on about six spots. However, these trenches have been left bare for the last two years and no road signs have been placed on these spots, causing danger to road users.

Madam Speaker, sometime last year, when a driver, who was using this same stretch, swerved to avoid a bad spot, one the occupants fell off the vehicle. Yesterday, again, another taxi plunged in one of the trenches along the said stretch, causing the death of yet another human being, a resident of Sioma. I am afraid that if the spot is not worked on, the people of Sioma will continue losing their lives. Therefore, is the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development in order to ignore the negligence of the contractor, Omni Company, who deliberately did not back fill the trenches even when he knew he was not ready to place culverts on the road?

I need your serious guidance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

That matter looks like it has been going on. However, the only concern I have is vehicles plunging in the trenches that have been left gapping and the risk that the people in the area run. There might be further mishaps there. Maybe, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development can shed some light.

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): I have been caught on my back foot, Madam Speaker, but because this matter is familiar to me, I will attempt to attend to it.

Madam Speaker, to begin with, I would like to state that this scenario is not exclusive to the road in Sioma. Many sites have been left unattended to by various contractors in the country, predominantly in the north part of the country.

Madam Speaker, you may wish to note that Sioma was one of the constituencies that was represented by an Independent Member of Parliament in the last Parliament, who was aligned to the Patriotic Front (PF). Therefore, it is not surprising that Sioma was one of those towns that got the benefit of the rural connectivity roads.

Madam Speaker, as I have stated before, all the contracts were either terminated or seized. So, some contracts were seized on account of time lapse while others were seized on account of non-performance, and what we know, the non-availability of funds, because they were over procured against the budget. That is the story that everyone is aware of.

Zeroing in down on the roads in Sioma, Madam Speaker, we asked all the contractors, whom we gave termination letters, to prepare final accounts on their contracts so that we could get to a final reconciliation of the status of each road. In the case of Omni Company, my colleague is interested to know what we will do immediately to circumvent what happened yesterday and last year when a taxi plunged into the culvert. I assure him that we will engage Omni Company. Fortunately, there has been a declaration of interest. One of the directors of Omni Company is one among us here.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: We will sit and discuss how we will ensure that the crossing points are secured for the purpose of saving lives going forward.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: In view of the fact that we do not debate ourselves, I encourage hon. Members, the hon. Minister and whoever the other person is to engage, to see how that issue can be sorted out.

MR MUTELO, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR MITETE, ON THE HON. MINSTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, MR MWIIMBU, ON THE SECURITY SITUATION IN LUPUYU WARD, MAYUNDU VILLAGE IN MITETE

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security and the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House already know this matter.

Madam Speaker, the people of Mitete, and in particular Lupuyu Ward, are not safe. I know that the hon. Minister started working on the matter yesterday but it is so urgent that if it were possible by today, security officers should be in Mitete, Lupuyu Ward, Mayundu Village. People are living in the bush because four-armed unknown people burnt houses, shot at people and luckily, one survived. If this situation is left unchecked –

Madam Speaker, I do not want to bring in the hon. Minister of Technology and Science, but due to network challenges, people had to walk to Lukulu to report this case. Due to the unfinished and stalled construction of the police station, people had to walk for kilometres and kilometres, and this matter needs urgent attention. If it was possible, lift me as well so that I can go and calm the situation.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: You brought in the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security and the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House, so, I do not know who is supposed to shed light on the situation. However, you said that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security is already aware of the situation. So, if the hon. Minister is already aware, why can you not liaise and see that something is done? Be mindful that we will go on break today. I do not want to talk on behalf of the hon. Minister.

Hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, there is a situation in Mitete.

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, the situation that has been alluded to by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mitete was brought to my attention yesterday in the afternoon. We are taking measures to ensure that the security situation in that particular ward returns to normal.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: So, the Government is aware and something is being done about it. The hon. Member for Mwembezhi.

Mr Jamba (Mwembezhi): Thank you, Madam Speaker –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Hon. Members, please, do not keep on indicating; I had already closed the list. We have other business to do. We are not here only for matters of urgent public importance. Due to the number of matters of urgent public importance that have been raised, I will not encourage hon. Members to ask follow-up questions where the position given by the hon. Minister is clear. For example, in the case of Mitete, the Government is aware of the situation and it is taking measures. So, I do not know what other follow-up question can be asked. Let us proceed.

Hon. Member for Mwembezhi.

Mr Jamba: It is fine, Madam Speaker. My matter has been overtaken by events.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much for that.

MR MICHELO, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR BWEENGWA, ON THE ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE AND HON. MINISTER OF DEFENCE, MR LUFUMA, ON SECURITY SITUATION IN BWEENGWA

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Michelo: Madam Speaker, my matter of urgent public importance is directed at the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House.

Madam Speaker, in Bweengwa Constituency, cattle rustling is rampant. Farmers are losing many animals and some people have started sleeping near their kraals. There is no police post in Bweengwa Constituency, but right now, the Government is busy giving out money to somebody who does not deserve to get that money and is providing security to somebody who does not deserve that security…

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Michelo: …instead of bringing that security to Bweengwa Constituency. People are killing each other because of the stealing of cattle. I believe the scenario is similar in all the constituencies where people are keeping cattle.

Madam Speaker, I want a truthful answer this morning, today.

Laughter

Mr Michelo: Madam Speaker, imagine money is being provided to somebody who was supposed to resign from politics - the former Republican President, who even mentioned that once a politician will always be a politician.

Mr Kapyanga: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, today is the last day. I want to finish on a good note. So, hon. Member for Bweengwa, that issue, I think it is more political than for the House. So, you can deal with it politically.

Hon. Member for Mkaika, you may proceed.

Laughter

MR P. PHIRI, HON. MEMBER FOR MKAIKA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, MR MWIIMBU, ON UNKNOWN PEOPLE ARMED WITH AN AK47 WHO STAGED A ROBBERY IN KATETE

Mr P. Phiri (Mkaika): Madam Speaker, on a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr P. Phiri: Madam Speaker, thank you so much for this opportunity. My matter for urgent public importance is directed to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Interjections

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Mkaika Constituency, you may proceed.

Mr P. Phiri: Madam Speaker, unknown people armed with an AK47 staged a robbery at a shop opposite St Francis in Katete. It is believed that a gun, a coat written Zambia Police on it and a motor bike which was later abandon by the criminals belongs to the Zambia Police Service in Katete.

Madam Speaker, similar incidents have happened in the past where lives were even lost and colossal sums of money stolen from some shop owners and the filing stations in Katete. The robbers were intercepted and later freed by some people who were near the shop.

Madam Speaker, my matter of urgent public importance is that some people in Katete are living in fear because they have seen that the weapons which are supposed to be used to protect citizens in the area are now being used for robbery. If this matter is left unattended to, it means we are going to lose many lives. As I said, similar incidents have happened and people have lost lives.

Madam Speaker, I need your indulgence in this matter.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, maybe you can assist me. When did that happen? You did not state when it happened.

Mr P. Phiri: Madam Speaker, it happened on Sunday, and three days ago, one police officer was picked for investigations. Right now, he is in Chipata.

Madam Speaker: Maybe the hon. Minister can say something about that.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I am aware of the station that occurred in Katete. As he has rightly indicated, we have already picked one suspect who is alleged to be a police officer.

Madam Speaker, as I respond to this, let me state that when we are given the responsibility to recruit individuals to be employed under security wings, let us be very cautious and careful. If we are careless, we will end up with criminals to be employed by security wings.

Madam Speaker, it should never happen again.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, you want to ask a question on that?

Ms Mwamba entered the Assembly Chamber.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mulenga: Mwandini na mu wama.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, indeed, our hon. Minister really looks mwa!

Laughter

Ms Mulenga: Ema calibre yaba namayo aya.

Madam Speaker: Order!

May the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu proceed.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, thank you very much and indeed, I totally agree with you. The hon. Minister for community development is looking superb.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: I hope she is not planning to go with Madam Kamala Harris.

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, this issue that has been raised by the hon. Member for Mkaika Constituency is a very serious one. Recruiting is a process and indeed, it might be very difficult to know because at one point people will become criminals even in different professions depending on what they are. However, the hon. Minister may recall that this is an area where members of the pubic reacted in a manner that brought them in conflict with the law because of the perceived inertia from the Zambia Police Service. He may also recall that he has youths who are appearing in court for their reactions.

Madam Speaker, what is being done to avoid the occurrence of what transpired because when people lose confidence in the Zambia Police officers, anything can happen? What is the ministry doing to ensure that what occurred in Katete area where members of the public reacted to the inertia of the police?

Madam Speaker, there is now the issue of weapons that are supposed to protect citizens being used in criminal activities. What stringent measures is the Ministry putting in place to ensure that the people of Katete are assured of safety?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, let me state that as one of the measures to ensure that there is professionalism in the Police Service, we have started a process of retraining police officers so that as they execute their official duties, they remain professional. Obviously, in exceptional circumstances like the one that occurred in Katete, that alleged officer misconducted himself criminally, and that is why the members of the public took the law in their own hands.

Madam Speaker, obviously, members of the public have the right of arrest if they find an individual, whether a police officer or not, committing an offence. Members of the public have the right to effect citizen’s arrest and that was their attempt in Katete.

I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, we have spent almost thirty minutes on this issue, let us make progress. We have other business on the order paper.

_______

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

THE ZAMBIA-DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO JOINT INITIATIVE TO ESTABLISH A VALUE CHAIN IN THE ELECTRIC BATTERY AND CLEAN ENERGY SECTOR

The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Mulenga): Madam Speaker, may I take this opportunity to thank you for allowing me to deliver a ministerial statement on the status of the Joint Initiative between Zambia and the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) on the establishment of a value chain in the electric battery and clean energy sector.

Madam, Members of the House may recall that the initiative started when His Excellency, Mr. Hakainde Hichilema, President of the Republic of Zambia was invited by His Excellency, Mr. Felix-Antoine Tshisekedi Tshilombo, President of the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) to attend the multi-stakeholder DRC-Africa Business Forum from 24^th to 25^th November, 2021.

The aim of the business forum was to foster development of a robust Electric Vehicle Battery (EVB)–

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Can we listen to the ministerial statement, please, can we pay attention. There is too much talking.

May the hon. Minister proceed.

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, the aim of the business forum was to foster development of a robust EVB and renewable energy value chain and market in Africa. It was during the business forum that the two Heads of State committed to implementing the joint-EVB initiative between the Republic of Zambia and the DRC.

Madam Speaker, to that end, in April 2022, Zambia and the DRC, through respective hon. ministers responsible for Industry, Finance and Mines signed the co-operation agreement between the two countries on the establishment of a value chain in the electric battery and clean energy sector. The purpose of the co-operation agreement is to provide a framework for bilateral cooperation, and to facilitate and strengthen collaboration between the two countries, on a non-exclusive basis, in areas of common interest necessary for the establishment of the battery value chain.

Among the areas of co-operation outlined in the co-operation agreement, include:

1. the establishment of a common governance framework; and
2. the identification of an implementation site, such as a Special Economic Zone (SEZ), in both countries to house the initiative.

Madam Speaker, regarding the establishment of a common governance framework; the co-operation agreement provides for the Zambia-DRC Battery Council, which is composed of the two Heads of State, the Deputy Secretary -General and Executive Secretary of the United Nations Economic Commission for Africa (UNECA) and the president of Africa Export-Import Bank (Afreximbank), as well as any other reputable individuals to be recommended by the two Heads of State.

The UNECA and Afreximbank engaged the two countries in working on a joint initiative to move up the mineral value chain during the DRC-Africa Business Forum. The two institutions were identified as strategic technical and financial partners for the successful implementation of the Zambia-DRC joint EVB initiative.

Madam, following the signing of the cooperation agreement, the two Governments engaged UNECA and Afreximbank and negotiated an agreement for the establishment of SEZs dedicated to the production of battery precursors, batteries and electric vehicles. The zones will be developed in accordance with the laws governing the establishment of SEZs in the respective countries.

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to report that the agreement was signed by the four parties as follows: Zambia, DRC, UNECA; and Afreximbank on 27^th March, 2023, in Kinshasa, DRC, from where I recently returned.

Madam Speaker, the agreement provides a great opportunity towards accelerating the implementation of the joint initiative and harnessing the mineral resource wealth of the two countries to foster mineral-based industrialisation, following the initiative and vision of His Excellency the Republican President of bringing value addition and industrialisation to Zambia.

Madam Speaker, with regard to the identification of an implementation site for the initiative, at the time of signing the co-operation agreement in April, 2022, the DRC had already identified land which would be carved out of the 500 ha Kipushi Special Economic Zone (KSEZ) in the Haut-Katanga region for the initiative.

On the other hand, with the view to identify potential sites for the SEZ for Zambia, the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development led a land identification exercise in various towns of the Copperbelt Province, in May, 2022. During the exercise, potential sites were visited with recommendations provided for each site visited.

Madam Speaker, resulting from this exercise, follow-up ground truthing exercises were undertaken by officers from the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources, the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development and the Copperbelt Province, with the view to arrive at a decision on a proposed site for the SEZ.

Madam Speaker and members of the House, I am pleased to report that a suitable site was identified on the Copperbelt, particularly in Ndola, for the initiative, in a view to revive Ndola as an industrial zone, as it used to be in the past. The site was selected for its proximity to not only the mineral resource and the DRC, but also its proximity to necessary amenities such as the road network.

Madam Speaker, let me highlight that one of the core principles that Afreximbank will consider in the development of its proposal to the Governments of Zambia and the DRC is the conclusion of a pre-feasibility study on the land identified for the SEZs.

Madam, the pre-feasibility study shall constitute the basis relied on for the principle characteristics of the zones, including the purpose of the industrial estate, utilisation of surface areas and typology of activities, among others.

Therefore, with the signing of the agreement by Zambia, DRC, UNECA and Afreximbank on 27^th March, 2023, the conducting of a pre-feasibility study on the identified land is expected to commence soon, in the next three weeks.

Madam Speaker, let me conclude by stating that the EVB value chain initiative comes in the wake of a global transition towards a decarbonised world and renewable energy. This shift will be powered by critical and strategic minerals, which Zambia and the DRC possess.

In this regard, Madam Speaker, there is a need for the two countries, which are well endowed, to transform how they manage and utilise their natural resources. The Government is, therefore, committed to promoting activities that generate value for our natural resources locally. We want to see our people benefit from the country’s mineral wealth, unlike the previous trend of exporting our resources in raw form.

Madam Speaker, I am confident that with the implementation of the Zambia-DRC joint EVB initiative, we shall see Zambia’s mineral resources playing a more significant role in the country’s industrialisation agenda and its socio-economic transformation.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, I appreciate the ministerial statement, which has been rendered by the hon. Minister responsible for Commerce, Trade and Industry.

Madam Speaker, in his statement, the hon. Minister indicated that the signing of this quadripartite deal was done last week or maybe this week, in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). He has also shared with us the steps that will follow. However, earlier this year, the Republican President and his counterpart from the DRC Mr Tshisekedi Tshilombo, witnessed the signing ceremony of a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) between the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry’s counterpart, the hon. Minister of Homes Affairs and Internal Security and his Colleague from the DRC, which was done before the United States of America (USA) Secretary of State. Would the hon. Minister share with this august House and the nation at large, what the role or the interest of the USA is in this transaction? The quadripartite deal does not speak to the USA, but the MOU was signed before the USA Secretary of State. The protocol arrangement of signing MOUs in such a fashion, means that the State before which the MOU was being signed has an interest.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Do not debate, ask your question.

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Madam Speaker, indeed, the Zambian Government, the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and the United States of America (USA) signed an agreement regarding the electric battery value chain. What we signed with the USA was an agreement for technical support. Truth be told, America is one among the leaders in that sector. Tesla, among many others, comes from USA. So, should we need any technical support in what we are doing, the Americans are open to that initiative.

Madam Speaker, the signing of the agreement is not exclusive and does not limit us to dealing with the Americans only in the electric battery value chain. We are open to many other countries, including China. I should report to this House that, yesterday, we had a good meeting with a company called China Molybdenum Company Limited (CMOC) from China that expressed interest in setting up battery value chains in our country. We are in talks with them. However, it would be premature of me to bring a statement about them while we are in talks.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Thank you, Madam Speaker. Let me put on record that the hon. Minister’s approach to harnessing the potential in that sector is commendable, particularly, that he teamed up with the DRC. The mineral we are talking about, he is aware, is a free-for-all. In regard to lithium in the Southern Province, we have not yet devised a proper mechanism to manage that resource.

Madam Speaker, has the Government undertaken, deliberately, to understand how much lithium resources we have around the country, and has it come up with a deliberate policy to manage the resource, because very soon, it will deplete at the hands of those who are getting it freely, as the case is.

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Madam Speaker, beyond lithium, it is every mineral that we are trying to structure a database to establish how much resource of each we have in this country. My ministry, working in collaboration with the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development and the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, is putting up an aggregation centre for how much of every resource we have and how much it will contribute to our Gross Domestic Product (GDP), be it copper, lithium or manganese.

So, to respond to the good question from the hon. Member for Nkana, …

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I want to, first, apologise to my colleague, the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry.

Madam Speaker, at one point I felt like I was hallucinating, but I think I heard the hon. Member for Nkana say that the harvest, putting it in my own words, of Lithium in the Southern Province was a “free for all.”

I rise on Standing Order 65 and the Members Handbook that innuendos should not be permitted to flow on the Floor of this House. So, unless the hon. Minister really understood what the “free for all” perception was all about, I would like to find out whether the hon. Member is in order to say that in the Southern Province, the harvest of that product is “free for all.” I come from there and I am not aware about that “free for all.”

Mr B. Mpundu interjected.

Mr Nkombo: I seek a ruling for the hon. Member to substantiate, …

Mr B. Mpundu: You may not just be aware.

Mr Nkombo: I need your protection, Madam Speaker, ...

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, can we listen to the point of order

Mr Nkombo: … because if I rise it will be sad for him.

Laughter

Mr B. Mpundu interjected.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Nkana!

Please, can we have some order! Let us allow the hon. Minister, –

Mr Nkombo: I needed protection, Madam Speaker, just for administrative purposes, but I can handle him myself if he proceeds in that line.

I seek your ruling.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order!

I am sure we can, – Today is the last day. We had almost a month or two of seeing each other and you did not handle each other. Why should you handle him today?

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Nkana, I heard you say that it was “free for all” and I wondered. You did not provide or state what you meant by that. Please, in accordance,–

Mr B. Mpundu rose.

Madam Speaker: Order! I did not ask you to rise. In accordance with Standing Order 65, when you are giving facts before the House, they must be verifiable. So, you did not give anything to support that “free for all” statement you made.

The hon. Minister will answer your question. However, please, withdraw that “free for all” in the Southern Province statement.

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, “free for all” is expressive, he knows.

Madam Speaker: No, withdraw the words “free for all” because it has some implications. Somebody can misunderstand it.

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, much obliged. I withdraw the “free for all.” I want to replace it with “unguided mining.”

Mr Haimbe interjected.

Mr B. Mpundu: Ah! You do not want me to replace it? Are you the judge? Are you the Speaker?

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Nkana, …

There was an exchange between Mr Haimbe and Mr B. Mpundu.

Madam Speaker: Order! Hon. Member for Nkana, you are out of order.

Please, can we have some order!

Interruptions

Madam Speaker rose.

Madam Speaker: Order!

May the hon. Minister continue.

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Thank you, Madam Speaker. We are a responsible Government that is aggregating and taking account of all the mineral resources we have. The reason we are embarking on that project is value add to the mineral beneficiation that we have in this country. So, we have sufficient mineral resources to ensure that the industry is sustained.

I submit.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Can we listen to the answers, because we do not want to repeat them. We have a lot of work before us and it will not be unending. I will allow a few questions and then we move on to the next item.

Mr Kalobo: Madam Speaker, the good people of Wusakile, and Zambia, at large, appreciate the coming of that lithium battery project. However, they are concerned that it has been taken to Ndola where a lot of huge infrastructure has already been placed. For example, the international airport, the stadium, …

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Ask a point of clarification. Do not debate.

Mr Kalobo: Thank you for the guidance, Madam Speaker. I just wanted to preface my question. Just last month, the hon. Minister was groundbreaking a Cancer hospital.

Madam Speaker, why has the Government brought the Salisbury syndrome where, resources that are produced in certain towns are being taken to develop other towns? Why not place the battery production project in Kitwe considering that most of the minerals, such as cobalt which is key to that industry, except lithium, will come from Kitwe?

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Madam Speaker, my Government is very strategic in how it wants to bring development into this country. I appreciate the concern by the hon. Member because in Ndola, we have what used to be an industrial park but successive Governments have not paid attention to reviving such industrial fortunes. We are so grateful that a giant mine known as Mopani Copper Mine in Kitwe will be given its life back soon. Ndola has only been left as a logistics hub. So, it is our ambition as the New Dawn Government –

Mr Kalobo interjected.

Mr Chipota Mulenga: Yes, Sir. Madam Speaker, the hon. Member is …

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member.

You have asked a question and the hon. Minister is answering, but you are interjecting. Is that not in breach of our own Standing Orders? Do you need to be reminded all the time? Maybe, we go to the next question.

Mr Chipoka Mulenga rose.

Madam Speaker: Okay, the hon. Minister wants to conclude.

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker, to the hon. Member who asked this question, allow me to serve you as a minister in the Government rather than to start exchanging words with you on this platform like a street politician. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 Hon. PF. Members: Ah!

 Mr Kalobo rose. 

Interruptions

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Madam Speaker –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Interruptions

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I will not –

Madam Speaker: What is happening to –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Kalobo rose.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Wusakile, what is happening? Hau!

Mr Chipota Mulenga: I am responding positively and he is attacking me. So, is this what you are asking for?

Interruptions

MadaM Speaker: Order!

We are going to move to the next item on the Order Paper.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Thank you very much, hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry.

Mr Kalobo resumed his seat.

Madam Speaker:  I have also permitted the hon. Minister of Technology and Science to issue a ministerial statement.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order hon. Members! Do you want to go and spend the last day outside or what?

Mr Kalobo: He is NDC.

Madam Speaker: So, if he is NDC, why does it matter to you? No, no! That is not – Why are you jealous of other people? Ah! That is jealous.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Let us have peace. Let us learn to live together in harmony. May the hon. Minister continue.

Laughter

CONSTRUCTION OF MOBILE COMMUNICATION TOWERS

The Minister of Technology and Science (Mr Mutati): Madam Speaker, I wish to thank you for giving me an opportunity to render a ministerial statement on the construction of mobile communication towers.

Madam Speaker, the Government recognises the critical role that the Information and Communication Technology (ICT) such as mobile communication towers play in accelerating social economic growth and development. In order to build a digital economy, mobile communication towers play a pivotal role in ensuring that the required ICT-based services reach our people in an effective and efficient manner. The increase in ICT uptake demonstrates that our people are ready to adapt, adopt and utilise ICT-based services in this country. However, the current mobile communication towers are not sufficient to support the required ICT services and demands. We owe our people, through their hon. Members of Parliament, answers and solutions, to the challenges they are facing with regard to communication services. To this effect, the Government plans to construct mobile communication towers in all parts of the country to ensure enhanced communication coverage to all underserved and unserved areas.

Madam Speaker, to achieve the 96 per cent target mobile communication coverage by population articulated in the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP), my ministry is methodically proceeding with purpose, to deliver outcomes that will improve the lives of our people, communities and businesses. To this effect, my ministry has undertaken the following:

1. countrywide digital infrastructure gap analysis, which include mobile communications towers was completed in 2022. This was conducted in order to establish the digital infrastructure connectivity gaps in underserved and unserved areas across the country;
2. the gap analysis report was shared with all hon. Members of Parliament for input on priority areas. I wish to thank all hon. Members of Parliament for their co-operation and input. It made our work easier to plan the roll-out of mobile communication towers;
3. following the prioritisation by hon. Members of Parliament, surveys of the nominal sites were conducted to obtain the actual coordinates of the proposed locations where towers will be installed; and
4. in this regard, the survey data will be used as input for the procurement process that will commence in two months. Currently, a procurement process for thirty-one mobile communications towers is in progress.

Madam Speaker, the Government in collaboration with private sector will construct a total of 300 mobile communication towers in unserved and underserved areas in 2023.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, to enhance mobile communication coverage and improve quality of service and experience, the Government will also use a combination of innovative solutions.  The countrywide roll-out of mobile communication towers shall provide the following benefits to our people:

1. reduced cost of travelling and doing business due to enhanced mobile communication services;
2. online registration and payment of businesses and filing of annual performance returns;
3. online registration and payment of cooperatives and filing of annual performance returns;
4. online registration of clubs and societies, and filing of annual performance returns;
5. online filing and payment of ground rents;
6. online registration of motor vehicles and vehicle licensing such as road tax;
7. Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) short message service (SMS) notifications and alerts;
8. mobile notifications using SMS;
9. digital payments of social cash transfer (SCT) using mobile money;
10.  online Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) tax and customs filing and payments; and
11. for our people to simply say, “hello, how are you doing” will be made easier.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, as I conclude, I wish to assure the people through this august House, that the Government working in partnership with the private sector and it is committed to rolling-out mobile communication towers using appropriate technology. The mobile communication towers, Madam Speaker, shall have both voice and internet, which will enable citizens to experience quality, affordable communication and effective electronic services.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Fube: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, the legislature has a manner in which it operates. Therefore, statements, like the one the hon. Minister has issued in the House, have to be in agreement with both the Constitution and the Standing Orders. If I go to –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon Member! We have crossed that bridge. I terminated that statement because it was causing a lot of –

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, it is a very serious breach that I wanted –

Madam Speaker: I have already dealt with the issue. Let us not open the wounds. Thank you for your understanding.

Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement issued by the hon. Minister of Technology and Science.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister’s ambition is great and is well supported. I wish the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government blessings so that it succeeds with the project.

Madam Speaker, 300 communication towers need to be erected. This is a big project; it is not a small project. When will the erection of the towers start and how many contractors have been engaged? We are talking about this year, meaning the ministry will not erect the towers next year. If it is this year, how many contractors have been engaged and when will it start this –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, you are only supposed to ask one question. You have asked three questions, but the only question the hon. Minister will answer is: When are the towers going to be erected?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, in my statement, I said that for the first thirty-one communication towers, we already advertised and we are currently carrying out an evaluation. We expect the evaluation to be finished in two to three weeks’ time. Three contractors bid for the thirty-one communication towers, and I also said that in the next two months, we will embark on the process of tendering for four communication towers. To remove any ambiguity, we shall put up a tender for 130 communication towers. In terms of how many contractors we are going to use, we will wait until we get a response for the tender, then we will answer the question.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that the ministry has taken four or five steps to reach the target of 96 per cent population coverage, and that one of the steps it has taken is to undertake a gap analysis.

Madam Speaker, a gap analysis is a very technical exercise. I know the ministry requested hon. Members of Parliament to submit areas where they feel there is a need for better communication. Have the experts, the people who are trained to carry out an assessment of where communication is poor, the Zambia Information and Communications Technology Authority (ZICTA), and the technocrats at the ministry done their own independent gap analysis, away from what we, the politicians, would state? If I am asked today where we need better communication, I will tell you in every section of my constituency. However, have we allowed the experts, the people who are trained to carry out the actual technical analysis, to verify the areas that are top priority in terms of communication towers?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, to give confidence to the hon. Member for Kamfinsa, if there is something that we do not lack in this country, it is competence and experts to deliver output and more specifically technical experts at both ZICTA and the ministry. In fact, we are over flowing with such experts. So, the hon. Member should be comforted.

Madam Speaker, in my statement, I indicated that the starting point was to undertake a desktop analysis. We needed then to confirm this desktop analysis by going on site, and getting input from hon. Members of Parliament. Having done that, hon. Members of Parliament assisted us by giving us input that the priority in a certain constituency is X and Y, and we are now going to site the positions of the communication towers. So, it is a collective effort of the technical experts, hon. Members of Parliament and the Government providing resources to execute the project, and that is how are proceeding.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Speaker, on behalf of the people of Lundazi, thank you for giving me chance to ask the hon. Minister a question.

Madam Speaker, the issue of innovation and technology hinges on gender equality. That is why the theme for this year’s women’s day celebrations was “DigitALL: Innovation and technology for gender equality”.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that the ministry will first erect thirty-one communication towers before erecting the 269. My question is: Which areas, or should I say, is Lundazi among the areas where the first thirty-one communication towers will be erected, especially that I am a female Member of Parliament?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, the Government has placed a lot of currency on gender equality. In fact, in everything we do in innovation, we promote the participation of women as much as possible. Two weeks ago, when we were doing the innovations, out of the fifty, unfortunately, 82 per cent of the recipients were men, and the only reason is that we need to break the gender barriers. Most girls in schools tend to tilt to subjects other than science and, therefore, are not in the innovation space. So, I urge the hon. Member of Parliament to assist us to encourage the girl child at school to take Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics (STEM) subjects because that is where equality begins from. If she does not do that, she will continue talking about gender equality.

Madam Speaker, as regards communication towers, giving due respect to gender, the distribution will be on those most critical indeed. If Lundazi happens to be most critical indeed, regardless of gender standing, we shall plant a tower.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi): Madam Speaker, on behalf of the people of Itezhi-Tezhi, thank you for giving me this opportunity to ask the hon. Minister a question.

Madam Speaker, on the thirty communication towers, what criterion will the ministry use to determine the critical areas to start with considering the fact that some constituencies –

Madam Speaker: Order

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi): Madam Speaker, I must state that without wasting much of your time, the hon. Minister of Technology and a Science engaged me during tea break and gave me a satisfying answer. The people of Itezhi-Tezhi are already happy.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: So, in the like manner, all these question here – I can see so many indications and we do not have much time. Of course, we have suspended the Standing Orders but I see so many questions. So, what I will do is to I will allow three more questions in the order of indications then the rest you will engage the hon. Minister. He is very useful.

Laughter

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, we are remaining with seven months before the onset of the rainy season. Looking at the tedious tender procedures, is the hon. Minister assuring the people of Chama North that communication towers will be installed before the end of this year?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, one of the matters that the President has pronounced himself upon, particularly for 2023, is to unlock rigidities, to break down the bureaucracy that is stopping us to deliver for the people of Zambia, including the tendering processes. So, we can assure the hon. Member that this year, the Government is focused on unlocking all the rigidities that are stopping us to deliver the thirty one towers. We started last year but because we were clamoured with rigidities and other issues, we delayed. This year we are saying “no”. So, delivery is going to be done pronto.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, allow me to congratulate the President, and the hon. Minister for taking up this initiative to close the digital divide. This means a lot for the people of Kanchibiya, which is a rural area, because we know that the digital divide excludes people from economic participation as well as social cohesion.

Madam Speaker, what is the quality of the towers you will be distributing or constructing in rural areas especially? Is it 4G or 5G? What are we starting with? We are already upbeat, as the people of Kanchibiya. Congratulations.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, in closing the digital gap, we are also saying that we need to close up the gap attributable to delivery of internet. A number of towers that we have erected do not deliver internet services. So, what we are doing this year is to upgrade the active equipment to ensure that at the very minimum, we have 4G to be able to deliver internet services. For all the towers that we are going to construct from now on, they will be a minimum of 4G to ensure that both voice and internet are provided. However, beyond that, we are also focusing on quality of service and quality of experience. Once you put in 4G, the two elements are anchored.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity.

Mr Jamba: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mushanga: I also thank –

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, I stand on point of order pursuant to our Standing Order 65.

Madam Speaker, the people of Mwembezhi, particularly in Chabota and Mukulaikwa, have never seen any internet or tower in their lives ever since God created earth. Therefore, in my mind, I am stuck when the hon. Minister talks about internet. Is the hon. Minister in order to start talking about internet when the people in Mukulaikwa and Chabota have never even seen a tower for connectivity. I am seeking a very serious ruling on my point of order raised on the Minister of Technology and Science.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, as a community worker, it is incumbent upon you to educate your people so that they appreciate what the internet is. That is the way the world is going. So, everybody should log in and be familiar with the internet. That is the only way we can go. People are now talking about artificial intelligence. We need to have our children think in a different way now. Creative thinking, not chabota, no internet.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: That was on a lighter note.

Mr Mushanga: Madam Speaker, the statement by the hon. Minister of Technology and Science borders also on your Committee that I belong to; Committee on Media, Information and Communication Technologies.

Madam Speaker, the details of the hon. Minister’s statement are very clear. However, there is one component I would like the hon. Minister to clarify. As Backbenchers, we are here to perform an oversight function. I would like to know the total cost of the 300 communication towers that will be dotted around the country. What is the cost for the initial thirty-one the 300 communication towers?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, firstly, I want to assure the people of Chabota that moving forward, what the Government is going to plant in Mwembezhi is going to be fourth-generation wireless (4G), so that they can be able to experience internet service and voice. Therefore, as the Hon. Madam Speaker has said, your role as Member of Parliament is to encourage the people to be digitally alert and be able to have minimal digital skills, so that when the Government delivers these towers, the rate of usage should be equal to the investment that it shall place in them. So, the Government will give the people a bit of time before erecting the towers. This will also give them time to come back and assure us that they are up to the task.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Bwacha asked about the cost of the 300 towers. The cost is influenced by a number of factors, including location. Some places are hilly, have rivers, distant, far from power, and so on and so forth. However, on average, the cost of a fully functional 4G or 5G tower would range fromUS$140,000 to US$260,000 depending on these factors that I have spoken to. So, that is the range for putting up a tower.

Madam Speaker, it is a very expensive enterprise. However, we think that our people deserve to be connected and therefore, the Government is not looking at the cost. It is looking at connecting its people so that their lives are improved and transformed and the economy grows. That is what it is looking at and not the cost.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

STATUS OF THE COUNTRY’S BAILOUT PACKAGE UNDER THE INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND PROGRAMME

249. Mr Kapyanga (Mpika) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning:

1. what the status of the country’s bailout package under the International Monetary Fund Programme is; and
2. what benefits, if any, have resulted from the programme so far.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) approved a US$1.3 billion extended credit facility programme for Zambia on 30^th August, 2022. The US$1.3 billion is programmed to be disbursed over a period of thirty-eight months. The first disbursement of approximately US$182 million was done in September, 2022. The programme is underway and a team from the IMF is currently in the country holding discussions with the Government to review progress on the implementation of the programme.

Madam Speaker, the IMF programme has supported the restoration of macroeconomic stability as well as boosted confidence of our commitment to economic reform. Some of the economic benefits which have resulted from the programme include the following:

1. facilitating debt restructuring of Zambia’s Central Government’s external debt. The programme has made it possible for Zambia to sit with creditors and negotiate the restructuring of our unsustainable debt. The negotiations are on-going and the IMF is helping to urge the creditors to quickly conclude the restructuring process;
2. providing balance of payment (BOP) support under the programme. As I said earlier on, Zambia has, so far, received the first disbursement of approximately US$182 million in September, 2022, which has augmented the gross international reserve position of the country; and
3. attracted grant funds for budget support. Being on the programme has facilitated receipt of resources from institutions such as the World Bank in support of our development agenda, including towards social safety nets such as the Social Cash Transfer.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, in the past seven years, we saw how our hon. Colleagues failed to get a bailout programme. In seven years, they changed hon. Ministers of Finance and the Bank of Zambia Governors but they still failed. What magic did this Government use that within the shortest period of time of the United Party for National Development forming Government, it is able to achieve that?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, indeed, the previous Government tried to secure this programme from as far back as 2016. From 2016 up to the point when it left, it had not yet managed to secure the programme. It is also true that in the event that it had won, it would have continued to seek an IMF programme because it was one of its campaign agendas. We all remember posters everywhere and securing the IMF programme was one of its important objectives.

Madam Speaker, the important thing or why this Government succeeded is the commitment; the political commitment to show that we are serious with what we intend to do. With that, those who are able to support have concluded that we are people worthy supporting because we commit to doing what we have said.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, I am grateful to the hon. Minister for his response. He has implemented all the conditions demanded by the International Monetary Fund (IMF), most of them very harsh and have resulted into the suffering of our people, including civil servants. The previous regime could not implement this programme owing to the conditions. It kept on negotiating on the conditions, so that they could be better with …

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Do not debate. Just ask your supplementary questions.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) increased the Statutory Reserve Ratio from 9 per cent to 11.5 per cent. Following that increment, banks have also increased either the loan repayment period or the repayment amount. Most of our civil servants are swimming in this debt. Is the Government considering reintroducing the debt swap so that our civil servants can be cushioned, as they navigate these hard times brought about by the IMF bailout package?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, there were more harsh conditions under the Patriotic Front (PF) Government than there are under the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, let me illustrate this. Under the PF Government, I am sure hon. Members heard, so many times, of civil servants, universities and other Government bodies going for several months without pay; that is harshness. You will recall that previously, civil servants would borrow money from certain people with the view that there would be deductions from their salaries to pay those that they owed. Hon. Colleagues recall that very well, not so?

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, the salaries of civil servants were being cut, but, instead of the money being transmitted to those who were owed, it was not being transmitted; that is harshness.

Madam Speaker, under the PF Government, millions of children were failing to go to school because they could not afford. Others would go write examinations, but would be turned away because there was no money to pay for the examination fees; that was harshness. Pensioners would go for one, two or three years without being paid; that was harshness. Today, they are being paid. The children of Zambia are going to school and sitting on desks. There is infrastructure everywhere in the countryside; building of classrooms, schools and clinics. Today, those who are receiving cash transfers are receiving them on time and the amounts have been enhanced. So, how can one say that there is more harshness today when there was ten times more harshness before?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker, regarding the debt swap that has been brought to our attention, if we find it feasible, we may consider it. I am not promising, but we may consider it. We can take a look.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, some of the reasons for the delayed signing of the agreement between the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the PF were certain IMF conditions, especially in the agricultural and energy sectors. The United Party for National Development (UPND) Government has signed the IMF deal and what we have seen in the agricultural sector is reduced support to farmers, given the number of bags of fertilisers they are walking away with.

Secondly, there has been an increase in electricity tariffs and, of course, not to talk of fuel. Is there is a relationship between the signing of the IMF deal and these harsh conditions that Zambians have been subjected to, specifically in the energy sector to do with fuel and electricity tariffs and, indeed, in the agricultural sector where farmers were sharing fertiliser in medas?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, these issues that the hon. Leader of the Opposition is talking about; fertiliser, electricity tariffs and fuel subsidy removal, are things that, in fact, the PF already agreed on with the IMF.

Hon. Opposition Members: Where is the evidence?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I say so because when we got into office, we found draft letters of agreement between the PF Government and the IMF. It already agreed on those issues. That is why it had all those big posters on roadsides saying, “IMF Programme.” That is what it was going to do. It was just waiting. Had it won, it would have done exactly what we have done.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, on agricultural support – by the way, our hon. Colleagues are just good at saying one thing and meaning another. They are very good at that.

Hon. Government Members: That is their nature.

Dr Musokotwane: However, on agriculture, for example, on the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), there is absolutely no difference between what is happening now and what was happening under the PF Government. The quantities are exactly the same. The reason there are issues of medas he talked about is that during its time, fertiliser was only given to PF members.

Mr Mundubile: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

I thought the hon Minister was answering your question, Hon Mundubile.

Mr Mundubile: He has made an allegation which is serious.

Madam Speaker: May the hon. Minister continue.

Hon. Mundubile, you can raise your point after he finishes.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, the point is that it was favouring those who were aligned to the party and, therefore, fertiliser appeared to have been plentiful. However, for the majority of the people, especially those in areas where the Opposition led, for example, in Liuwa, there was no fertiliser that was ever delivered under the PF Government. Now, it is being given. So, it appeared to have been plentiful only because the Government was favouring a few people.

Mr Mundubile rose.

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, we cannot keep quiet when he is making such statements. No! That is not good. We cannot sit and listen to that! (Pointing at the Hon. Minister)

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Let us have order. You asked a question …

Mr Mundubile: No, no! That is not fair.

Madam Speaker: … you asked a question, the hon. Minister is responding.

Mr Mundubile: I have raised a point of order because he is lying. Why is he misleading the nation?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, on the energy sector, again, I said that we found documents in the office where it had already committed itself to increasing the tariffs. It committed itself to that.

You committed yourselves to increasing the tariffs, you must be truthful. (Pointing at Hon. Mundubile)

Mr Mundubile interjected.

Madam Speaker: Order, Hon. Leader of the Opposition!

Dr Musokotwane:  Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, when you ask a question, the hon. Minister answers and then you –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

The role of the hon. Leader of the Opposition is to provide alternative policies, but from what I am seeing here, there is no alternative policy.

Mr Mundubile interjected.

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: No, I did not ignore you. I told you that you will raise a point of order once the hon. Minister has finished because he was answering your question. Now you can raise your point of order.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mundubile: The point of order I was raising was contemporaneous because the hon. Minister was telling a lie.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Mundubile: Iwe. Haimbe, what is wrong with you? 

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Leader of the Opposition –

Interruptions

Mr Mundubile: Iwe, you cannot tell me to sit down.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Leader of the Opposition, withdraw that. What is happening today? Maybe, the hon. Leader of the Opposition can tell me. What are your plans? What do you intend to do?

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, I have no plans for the House. I may have plans elsewhere but not for the House.

Madam Speaker, when the hon. Minister was responding –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Let me say something. Let us work together in harmony. Today is the last day. Please, we want to adjourn on a good note. So, when a question is asked, you are given opportunities to raise your points of order. When you raise your point of order, do not start attacking each other like that because it does not show that you are hon. Members, whichever side, whether left or right. It does not depict the dignity and honour of this House.

May the hon. Leader of the Opposition raise his point of order.

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, my point of order relates to Standing Order No. 65. The hon. Minister, when responding, made the statement that fertiliser was given only to Patriotic Front (PF) members.

Madam Speaker, the rules of the House are very clear. You have also ruled on similar matters on several occasions. Is he in order to make such a statement, when he has not laid any evidence on the Floor of this House?

Madam Speaker: This issue of fertiliser has been a subject before this honourable House. People have discussed how fertiliser was distributed and we all know what happened. So, should we go that route again? We should not go that route. Let sleeping dogs sleep. Let us leave that matter because it has been discussed and even the records of this House will show how fertiliser was distributed. We do not want to go that route. Let us proceed.

Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Madam Speaker, first of all, I want to show how sad I am because of the statements that are coming from the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Mkushi, please ask your supplementary question. It is not the time to debate, or to advise, or to preach to anyone. So, please ask your supplementary question.

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that we have been given the International Monetary Fund (IMF) bailout package of US$1.3 billion, and that so far, we have received US$182 million. Is the hon. Minister able to explain in simple terms so that a marketeer can listen and learn how this money has benefited a local person in order to reduce the cost of living in the country?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, the cost of living, as I have said, over and over in this House, cannot just be seen as a cost of one commodity; it is everything. Whether you are talking about, health, education or cabbage, it is the entire thing.

Madam Speaker, he wants me to give an example of how an ordinary person has benefited. In the previous Government, as I said a few minutes ago, parents were failing to send their children to school because when a child goes to school, he was being told to pay K600 merely for tuition. If the child was to be in boarding, the requirement was K1,000. Now, look at all the parents, especially in the rural areas. Even here in urban areas, if you go to some of these compounds, how many parents were able to send their children to school? Today, they are able to send their children to school. Would you not say that this is a relief to the parents?

Hon. Government Members: It is!

Dr Musokotwane: It is the most important relief because it builds the future of the family.

So, Madam Speaker, if my hon. Colleagues there cannot appreciate that the cost of education going down is something important, it means that for them, what is important is not education but something else.

Hon. Government Member: Money in their pockets.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Please, let us not –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: No, you are also breaching the rules. I was addressing the issue and you are saying the hon. Minister. What is happening, hon. Members?

Let us move on to the next question by the hon. member for Itezhi-tezhi. We will move on from any question that causes controversy.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

SALE OF ALCOHOL TO STUDENTS AND YOUNG   PEOPLE AT ENTRANCE OF HONE AND NIPA COLLEGES

250. Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

1. whether the Government is aware that there are people selling alcohol to students and young people at the entrance of Evelyn Hone College and National Institute of Public Administration, along Dushanbe Road in Lusaka; and 
2. if so, what urgent measures are being taken to curb the illegal act and avert moral decay of young people around that area.

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Madam Speaker, the Government, through the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, is aware of the illegal vice of selling alcohol at the entrance of Evelyn Hone College of Applied Arts and Commerce and the National Institute of Public Administration (NIPA) on Dushanbe Road in Lusaka. It may be interesting for the hon. Member of Parliament to know that the Government is aware that this problem does not only exist at these two institutions but is a countywide problem. People have been allowed to trade in alcohol away from obtaining licences and they even sell alcohol to underage citizens.

Madam Speaker, the urgent measures to curb the vice are that the Lusaka City Council (LCC) has been assigned to patrol and arrest the perpetrators. Further, on 17^th March, 2023, the council police, in conjunction with State police, did conduct an operation to among others, curb illegal sales of alcohol and demolished three illegal makeshifts which were recently reported by the NIPA management.

Madam Speaker, hon. Members may wish to note that during this operation, two male suspects were apprehended and two boxes containing 12 x 375 ml of liquor bottles were confiscated. Further, the two suspects were formally charged and released on police bond and are waiting to appear in court very soon.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutinta: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the steps being taken.

Madam Speaker, considering the fact that according to my investigations, at the moment, there are no legal points at the two institutions where students can buy liquor from. You might wish to note that students who are above eighteen years old have the freedom to buy beer in a legal place such as the student’s centre, which we had when we were at the University of Zambia (UNZA). Can the hon. Minister comment whether within their premises, there are legal places which they can go to if they wish to drink beer?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, yes, I know what my colleague is talking about. When I was at the University of Zambia (UNZA), back in the years, we had a student’s centre and a student’s canteen, and over the weekend, we would go and cool off with a drink and socialise. I can confirm that the two institutions do not have these facilities at the moment. Nevertheless, it is something that management can manage on its own. It does not need the ministry to ask it to establish recreation centres.

Madam Speaker, let me be quick to mention that the intake of alcohol is generally not advised for people in a learning environment. Of course, there are exceptions, especially when regulation is in place, to make sure that even as you establish recreation centres inside learning institutions, you do not create social misfit, such that there are people whom we used to call Lumpens back at UNZA, who would then disturb the learning environment. We would rather we keep the institutions as they are, without alcohol. The National Institute of Public Administration (NIPA) and the Evelyn Hone College of Applied Sciences and Commerce are pretty much in the peripheries of the Central Business District (CDB) where there are many recreation areas. So, those who feel the dire need to have alcohol can go and have a drink in the nearby areas without having to push an extra mile, to establish drinking places in the institutions.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Tayengwa: Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity once more.

Madam Speaker, it is not only at the Evelyn Hone College of Applied Sciences and Commerce and the National Institute of Public Administration (NIPA) but even in our constituencies, we have seen that most home shops sell alcohol and there are no proper sanitary facilities. If we let it be like that, we may end up increasing the number of junkies terrorising residents in our communities. Is the ministry considering employing more council police officers and inspectors to try and see how we can reduce this vice?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague, the hon. Member for Kabwata.

Madam Speaker, in my maiden response, I indicated that this problem was not only limited to the two institutions but that it is a countrywide problem. I would like to put it to the hon. Member of Parliament that we need everyone’s hand in the society to make sure that everyone operates within the confines of the law, rules and regulations that govern the sale of alcohol. Yes, it is true that when we got into office, we found that makeshift bars had been established almost everywhere. So, the whole country is just a drinking place.

Madam Speaker, we inherited that problem, and in our quest to correct this, we have made sure that councils do not renew the liquor trading licences for areas that clearly have no sanitary facilities, as the hon. Member put it, namely toilets with running water. We will ensure that we designate where what ought to be, in terms of city planning, and restore order. However, please, understand that it is a gradual process. I learnt from the best myself when I took over this ministry. I am sure hon. Members will recall that I thought I could remake the world and we went to try and nip the brewing of illicit alcohol called Kachasu in the bud. We were very, very – how do I put it? We had under estimated the size of the problem. The problem of brewing illicit alcohol is huge, and it requires careful attention because it was regarded as a norm before. We are determined to address it but we will do it systematically. Very soon, you will see that arbitrary trading of liquor anywhere and everywhere will be a thing of the past. We are working on that.

Madam Speaker, regarding the production of the people the hon. Member called junkies, that is a very problem in this country. The so-called junkies are young juveniles, boys and girls. The arbitrary wanton sale of alcohol everywhere and anywhere has created alcoholism among our small children who do not just imbibe alcohol but also top it up with psychotropic substances like marijuana and cocaine, and all the bad things that degenerate society. So, as a country, we have a big task ahead of us. All we can do, to borrow the words of Madam Speaker, is to work together to try and reverse what may have gone wrong in the past.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Nalolo, that was a late indication; I had already closed the list.

The hon. Member for Mandevu and then the last one will be the hon. Member for Kasenengwa.

Mr Shakafuswa (Mandevu): Madam Speaker, I agree that the illegal sale of alcohol is becoming a problem not only in town but even in other areas, Mandevu inclusive.

Madam Speaker, we have a situation in Mandevu Constituency where land reserved for Chipata Level One General Hospital has been encroached. I have brought this issue to the attention of the hon. Minister’s office and I engaged the Town Clerk. Alcohol is being sold next to a general hospital, yet the Liquor Licencing Act stipulates that no licence shall be given to a place which is 300 metres away from a school or hospital. However, some people who were Patriotic Front (PF) members yesterday, and are now wearing United Party for National Development (UPND) colours, want to continue with illegality. When will we see the law take its course so that such illegalities, which are against even our culture, – you cannot sell alcohol near a hospital. What this means is that even the officers who are supposed to attend to patients will be tempted to buy alcohol and attend to them in a drunken manner. When will the ministry come, as it has done before, to remove that container in Mandevu Constituency?

Madam Speaker: The question is not related to the one that was asked, but because the hon. Minister opened it up, he can answer it.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity to answer the question from my son and to confirm that, yes, he has been to my office to register a complaint about the 40 foot container that was established opposite the Mandevu Level 1 Hospital.

Madam Speaker, like I said earlier on, the whole country has degenerated, especially where this is concerned. The assurance that I can give to the hon. Member of Parliament, now that he has escalated this matter to the House of the people, is that he should give me 48 hours, and that container will be gone.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, the issue of selling alcohol in learning institutions is quite common almost countrywide like the hon. Minister indicated earlier on and it is a huge source of concern. We have seen many children coming back worse than when they went to the learning institutions. This is a huge challenge to parents and most of us have fallen victim to such.

Madam Speaker, when is the hon. Minister going to work hand in hand with the ministry responsible, which is the Ministry of Education, to make sure that the people selling alcohol illegally within school premises or within 300 metres of the school vicinity are completely shut off by either being charged for trading illegally or the businesses closed completely. When are we going to see that?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, managing change, especially in a situation where systems were broken, cannot be an overnight sensation. We are alive to the issues that our hon. Colleague raises. The only difference between now and what it used to be before, when we were at the University of Zambia (UNZA), is that even the alcohol that was sold in the recreation centres within the institutions of learning had limited alcohol content like a lager, which is 4 to 5 per cent. Now, times have evolved and what we need more is a cultural shift rather than clamping people and moving from institution to institution closing bars. Even the packaging of alcohol has now become more conducive for people to just put it in the pocket and continue imbibing even when they are in class. So, just to assure the hon. Member of Parliament for Kasenengwa Constituency, we are working very closely with our sister Ministry of Education to make sure that we sanitise as much as possible.

Madam Speaker, on alcohol intake, if he heard the President during the time he came to make the State of the Nation Address on the Progress Made on the Application of National Values and Principles, he addressed the issue of the National Alcohol Policy because as the Government, we recognise that that alcohol intake has increased exponentially to alarming levels. We need to work around this to reverse the trend in a collective manner and not just shunt it to the ministry that is responsible for licensing of alcohol.

Madam Speaker, I can confess to him today, that many people that he sees on the high street of Cairo Road, Freedom Way, Chachacha Road, and Lumumba Road and everywhere in the country, just establish on top of their boxes and start selling without any form documentation. However, what we found when we came in is that the party that was in the Government then, which is his party, had been levying the people who are trading illegally. They had been collecting council levies in form of K5’s per day from these people thereby legalising the trade.

 

Madam Speaker, when I got into the ministry, I asked them to stop levying them as a first line of attempt to crystallise the illegality that is associated with trading of alcohol wantonly. So, it is something that I think we cannot achieve in one day. It is a very big battle and I wish that everyone was thinking in the manner the hon. Member of Parliament is thinking. However, he should also be reminded that at the time when my ministry had moved in to try and put our marketers back into designated trading places, we were labelled all sorts of names that we are heartless people, and told that people must survive. Nevertheless, the designated trading places, in this case I am using markets as an example, are yawning. There are no people in there because everybody has come to the street as if we were in Haiti.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

PROVISION OF TRANSPORT TO DACO’S OFFICE IN KANCHIBIYA

251. Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Agriculture:

1. whether the Government has any plans to provide transport to the District Agriculture Coordinator’s Office in Kanchibiya District to ease operational challenges;
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
3. what form of transport will be provided.

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Mtolo): Madam Speaker, yes, the Government has plans to provide transport to Kanchibiya District.

Madam Speaker, the Hon. Member may wish to note that Kanchibiya currently has an operational Motor vehicle, a Land Cruiser, registration number BAB 7033. Further, the district has four operational motor bikes at its disposal.

Madam Speaker, the ministry is continuously implementing a programme to provide transport to the various districts in the country including Kanchibiya. For the 2023 Budget, the ministry has made an allocation to procure motor bikes for various districts in the country, of which Kanchibiya is one of them.

Madam Speaker, with regards to motor vehicles, the Ministry intends to make a provision in next year’s budget, if funds will allow, we would like to improve the transport situation in the entire Ministry of Agriculture.

Madam Speaker, as I have indicated, in 2023, the ministry has made a budget provision for procurement of motor bikes and Kanchibiya may be considered in the procurement of motor bikes this year.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity and allow me to thank the hon. Minister for his response. Indeed, there is a 4x4 vehicle attached to the Department of Agriculture, but let me report that the 4x4 vehicle is limping. When we look at the width and breadth of Kanchibiya and what we are trying to do, it has become very difficult for his office in the district to supervise and monitor what we are doing. We are also taking advantage of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) allocation to plough into agriculture, especially the rice production under the CDF component. I am sure there is contestation to use the CDF vehicle, which has to monitor many other projects.

Madam Speaker, a dedicated vehicle would be greatly appreciated besides the motor bikes that he has mentioned.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister, do you have any comment on that?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I can only thank the hon. Member.

Madam Speaker: There is a request begging the indulgence of the hon. Members that we go to question 256. Can we proceed to question 256, if that is alright?

Hon. Member for Kanchibiya, you may proceed.

PLANS TO EMPOWER SMALL HOLDER FARMERS IN RURAL AREAS WITH MICRO-IRRIGATION SYSTEMS

256. Mr Chanda asked the Minister of Agriculture:

1. whether the Government has any plans to empower small holder farmers in rural areas with micro-irrigation systems; and
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, yes, the Government has plans to empower small-holder farmers in rural areas with irrigation systems.

Madam Speaker, the Government is already implementing these plans through programmes such as the Expansion of Community Based Small-holder Irrigation Development Project (E-COBSI), a project which is being implemented with the support of Japan International Cooperation Agency (JICA). The programme supports farmers to develop temporary cost-effective weirs to support irrigated agriculture across the country. E-COBSI has irrigation sites in Luapula Province, the Copperbelt Province, the Northern Province and the North-Western Province, which are referred to as follow-up provinces (FUP). The total number of smallholder farmers benefiting from the project under the FUP is 3,113.

Currently, there are additional sites under the E-COBSI approach which are being implemented in new target provinces, namely the Copperbelt Province, the North-Western Province and the Central Province of Zambia benefiting 2,917 small-holder farmers. The project targets forty-five districts in both FUP, and the new target provinces. Therefore, E-COBSI is benefiting a total of 6,030 small-holder farmers.

Madam Speaker, further, Chiansi Irrigation Infrastructure Project (CIIP) in Kafue is a programme based around a bulk water supply company that is owned by the Government to provide water for irrigation to local communities and small-holder farmers. Currently, there are 200 small-holder farmers who are benefiting from the irrigation project. CIIP covers 3,800 ha and is expected to service 3,500 households.

Madam Speaker, the Strengthening Climate Resilience in Agro-Ecological Regions I and II (SCLARA) is another project under the Ministry of Agriculture, which targets small-holder farmers in low rainfall areas of the country. It has operational irrigation sites in the Southern Province, the Western Province and the Eastern Province. Under the project, 138 boreholes have been drilled in some districts of Zambia, namely Sesheke, Mulobezi, Kazungula, Namwala, Gwembe, Siavonga, Chirundu, Rufunsa, Luangwa, Nyimba, Mambwe and Chama. Apart from the boreholes, the project will also involve the setting up of micro-irrigation systems that will benefit small-holder farmers by providing them water for irrigation and livestock.

Furthermore, Madam, under this project, an irrigation scheme is being constructed in Sioma and it will target seventy-two households. This will be completed in a month’s time.

Madam Speaker, the Irrigation Development Support Programme (IDSP) is another irrigation project which is operational and has sites in Mwomboshi, in Chisamba, Central Province, Lusitu, in Chirundu, the Southern Province and Musakashi, in Mufulira, on the Copperbelt.

The IDSP project is benefiting a total of 1,472 small-holder farmers broken down as follows:

1. Mwomboshi irrigation scheme has 5,083 hectares servicing 728 small-holders;
2. Lusitu has 270 hectares, 382 small-holder farmers in Chirundu; and
3. Musakashi has 834 hectares, 362 smallholder farmers in Mufulira;

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity yet again and, I thank the hon. Minister for his response.

Madam Speaker, the country has in excess of 3 million small-holder farmers and we know that one of the hindrances to migrating from rain-fed farming is the lack of access to irrigation for our farmers. So, my question is informed by this reality.

Madam, there is precedent which has been set by the hon. Minister’s counterpart ministries. We have seen the procurement of a police vehicle captured under the2023Constituency Development Fund (CDF). We have also seen money going to towards electrification. So, would the Ministry of Agriculture consider negotiating for such space with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, even as we pray that he increases allocation in 2024 to create space for the agricultural sector and to have a component for mechanization for small-holder farmers, especially for those of us coming from rural areas?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, that is a brilliant suggestion.

Madam, for the benefit of those who are in the House and those listening, let me put it as follows: The country has done very well in the seed sector. Zambia is now a net exporter of seed.

Madam Speaker, secondly, the country has taken a very good trajectory in the fertiliser sector. By next year, we will not be importing fertiliser, unless those who want to import.

The third programme, therefore, will be mechanisation. So, I am so inspired with what the hon. Member has said. I seat next to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, I am sure he is going to help me lobby with the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development so that we can probably deviate some funds from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to mechanisation. I thank the hon. Member, through you.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, let me qualify that I make that submission on the prayer that there will be an increase.

Madam Speaker, would this be on the basis of equity? That is the submission I want to make, that in making this consideration, the hon. Minister should kindly consider equity. We do not want to see mini irrigation kits for my good brother, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwata.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I am grateful. Indeed, I take cognisant of what has been said. However, let me take advantage of this question.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member from Kanchibiya, Hon. Chanda, who has just posed the question, has effectively used the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to support agriculture. So, I want to use this chance and say that all of us in this House should take a good example from what he has done by using CDF in agriculture. Previously, we could not do that, but now the laws allow. So, I really want to take advantage of this and say this is a very good example. We can use CDF to buy tractors and give them to groups. We can use CDF to buy irrigation systems and give them to groups. I think that is they way to go.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sialubalo (Sinazongwe): Madam Speaker, it is gratifying to note that the Ministry of Agriculture has a plan for drought-prone areas. The hon. Minister mentioned the activities that are being undertaken in Gweembe, Siavonga and Chirundu. The people of Sinazongwe are wondering why the ministry does not have any similar programme for Sinazongwe, bearing in mind that Sinazongwe is a drought-prone area, but it also shares Lake Kariba where the people can do a lot of micro irrigation.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member. I encourage him to use headed paper for his office as Member of Parliament and write to us so that a record is kept. We can definitely consider supporting that area.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kawambwa, you had indicated. You have the Floor, least I am accused of not allowing you to debate.

Mr Chilangwa (Kawambwa): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister who stated in his responses that Zambia is a net exporter of seed. For how long has Zambia been a net exporter of seed?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, the United National Independence Party (UNIP) Government started the programme and brought the Zambia Seed Company Limited (Zamseed) et cetera. The Movement for Multiparty Democracy (MMD) Government carried on and did very well. It passed on the baton to the Patriotic Front (PF) Government which passed on the programme to us, and we have accelerated it. So, it has been a continuous process of development.

I thank you, Madam.

Madam Speaker: At least, the hon. Minister has acknowledged that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government passed on the baton, and the current Government has accelerated it.

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, as a country, we are net exporters of seed. Is the ministry considering supporting local seed varieties such as gankata and kamvwamba so that our small-scale farmers can benefit from the process the hon. Minister mentioned?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, firstly, most of the seeds that we are talking about, which the private sector is using, are, actually, developed here in Zambia. However, I believe that the hon. Member asked about open-pollinated varieties we call the local seed. We are implementing that programme, and there are two or three companies that are promoting local seeds. They are seeds you plant, harvest and replant part of them. You can do that for, at least, three years before the seed starts to deteriorate in quality.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

PLANS TO DEGAZETTE CHAMA DISTRICT AS A GMA

252. Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North) asked the Minister of Tourism:

1. whether the Government has any plans to degazette Chama District from beinga  game management area (GMA); and
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented.

The Minister of Tourism (Mr Sikumba): Madam Speaker, the Government does not have any plans to degazette Chama District from a game management area (GMA).

Madam Speaker, with the response in (a), (b) falls off.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, I just wanted to find out whether the hon. Minister is aware that under the Zambia Wildlife Act of 1947, Chama was gazetted as a game management area (GMA) because it was part of Lundazi at the time. However, Chama was given district status sometime in 1971. Does he not think that it is important, since Chama is now a district, to degazette it so that the whole area is not classified as a GMA?

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I am aware that there was a separation of Chama District from Lundazi. I would also like to let the House know that most GMAs are used as buffers for the many national parks we have dotted across the country. I must mention that the GMAs are used for both consumptive and non-consumptive tourism, of which Chama North, which lies in Mulasangu GMA, is one particular area our colleagues in Chama benefit from the hunting activities that take place in that area.

Madam Speaker, for the very fact that we have Mulasangu GMA, it is important to note that certain areas get designated for land use, and that is part of the discussions that are held whenever we are creating what we call general management plans within national parks. So, we will sit with our colleagues from Chama District to ascertain designated areas that will have different land use purposes. The hon. Member of Parliament for Chama North will definitely be invited to be part of those meetings.

I submit, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Please, do not forget Chama South. They always move together.

Laughter

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, clearly, the Government has no plans to degazette Chama from being a game management area (GMA). Does it have plans, therefore, to ensure that it reviews the Wildlife Act and bring in aspects of compensation? This is because, as a district, regardless of how hardworking our people are, elephants destroy their crops. We have families in Chama North and Chama South that have completely lost whatever they worked for this farming season. They need help in terms of food, from now until another harvest, but even then, they have no guarantee that elephants will not destroy their food.

Madam Speaker, does the Government have a plan to ensure that people in Chama, who are losing their crops, are compensated?

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, indeed, the Ministry of Tourism is in the process of amending the Wildlife Act, and it has taken a long time. However, we, within the United Party for National Development (UPND), have given the utmost priority to ensure that the amendment of the Act is brought to this House.

Madam Speaker, we should also realise that, – and I would like to take advantage of this particular question – we understand that there has been pressure regarding land. Most of the pieces of land we have in our country are being threatened by, obviously, the growth of human population. I must also mention that 33 per cent of land mass in Zambia, today, is in protected areas. As such, we would like to thank our colleagues from Chama North and Chama South for giving up their land so that those particular areas are protected. However, it is important to also recognise that as much as those pieces of land are protected, it is not our desire to shun people from using the land for other alternative activities such as agriculture.

Madam Speaker, as I mentioned earlier, whenever our people in those particular areas require using the land, it is important that they abide by rules governed under the General Management Plan of all the GMAs.

Madam Speaker, to answer the other question, a similar one was asked on whether the Government of the Republic of Zambia would be compensating victims of human/wildlife conflict. I mentioned in my response that in due course, the Government, through the ministry, would look at alternatives to start giving compensation with the help of our colleagues from the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) under the Office of Her Honour the Vice President.

Madam Speaker, I submit.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that the people of Chama are benefiting from wildlife. I would like to state that our people are not benefiting from the wildlife. It is the safari hunters who are benefiting. Now, since that area is classified as a Game Management Area (GMA), is the ministry thinking of restraining the wildlife officers who are going to people’s homes to arrest them and yet, these people just buy meat from somewhere? Most of our people are in prison in Lundazi. Instead of them arresting poachers in the bush, they are arresting people from their homes. Is the hon. Minister taking measures to ensure that the wildlife officers refrain from doing that? They should instead be catching poachers in the GMAs and not in homes.

Mr Sikumba:  Madam Speaker, I appreciate the follow-up question from my colleague, the hon. Member for Chama North.

Madam Speaker, I just want to make clarity from the onset that the people of Chama and indeed, any other GMA where consumptive tourism happens, by “consumptive” I mean hunting, do benefit. They benefit by way of safari outfitters making pledges to their various Community Resource Boards, of which I am assuming that my colleagues here, Hon. Mtayachalo is part of, and is well aware of what the CRB do in those particular areas.

Now, with regard to law enforcement, Madam Speaker, I heard my hon. Colleagues saying that meat is meat, dingi ni dingi. So, wherever it is found, we do send our law enforcement officers there to just make sure that we deter a number of people from killing our animals, whom we like to call play masters in our ministry. So, I would like to encouraged my hon. Colleagues in here, who are area hon. Members of Parliament and have GMAs to educate the people. They should advise them not to find themselves on the other side of the law which will get them into being arrested. The punitive law with regard to poaching is something that most people do not like, but I think it is important those laws are put in place to ensure that our wildlife is secured and we use it as our draw card for the many tourists that we want to have in our country.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

PLANS TO CONSTRUCT A UNIVERSITY IN KATETE DISTRICT

253. Mr Mushanga (Bwacha) (on behalf of Mr P. Phiri) (Mkaika) asked the Minister of Education:

(a)       whether the Government has any plans to construct a university in Katete District; and

(b)       if so, when the plans will be implemented. 

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that yes, the Government has plans to construct a university in Katete District. The commencement of the plans depends on the availability of funds.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member may note that the New Dawn Administration has inherited a lot of incomplete university infrastructure and many other infrastructure across the breadth of this country. The Government will only consider new projects after completing these projects, some of which stalled as way back as 2014.

 Madam Speaker, I thank you.

CONSTRUCTION OF LUNSANGWE BOARDING SCHOOL IN CHIMBAMILONGA

254. Mr Elias Musonda (Chimbamilonga) asked the Minister of Education:

(a)       why the construction of the Lunsangwe Boarding School in Chimbamilonga Parliamentary constituency has stalled;

(b)       when the project will resume;

(c)        at what stage of completing the construction works were, as of August 2022; 

(d)       what the cost of the outstanding works is; and

(e)        what the time frame for completing the outstanding works is.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that there is no construction of Lunsangwe Boarding School in Chimbamilonga Parliamentary Constituency. The House may wish to note that Lunsangwe is a primary school and is not under construction.

Madam Speaker, due to response in part (a) of the question, part b, c, d, and e fall off.

I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

Mr Elias Musonda: Madam Speaker, there is a boarding school which is under construction called Nsama Boarding School. I have tried on three occasions to correct the name with the Journals and Table Office Department, but to no avail. However, I was told that the question would be tabled the way it is because the information is already available that it is Nsama Boarding School.

Madam Speaker: So, since there is a wrong name that has been given and the hon. Minister prepared himself to answer in relation to this school called Lunsangwe then, ...

Mr Syakalima rose.

Madam Speaker: Maybe, the hon. Minister can clarify.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I thought that probably, it is the hon. Member who did not know his constituency, but –

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member may wish to note that because of it being too close to Lunsangwe Primary School, Nsama Boarding School whose construction had stalled is mistakenly referred to as Lunsangwe Boarding School. There is no boarding school named Lunsangwe Boarding in Chimbamilonga Parliamentary Constituency. An update on the construction of Nsama Boarding School …

Mr Elias Musonda interjected.

Mr Syakalima: The man is doing something else. He is not listening.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member.

You asked a question, but now, you are not listening to the answer. Hon. Member or Mpika, you are standing there discussing while giving me you back. That is in total breach of our Standing Orders. If you want to consult, you can walk out, consult and then come back. We do not stop people from consulting, but we need to do it in accordance with our own rules. Hon. Member for Chimbamilonga please, pay attention to the answer.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I will repeat what I wanted to say so that he hears.

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member may wish to note that because of being too close to Lunsangwe Primary School, Nsama Boarding School whose construction has stalled is mistakenly referred to as Lunsangwe Boarding School. There is no boarding school named Lunsangwe Boarding School in Chimbamilonga Parliamentary Cosntituency.

An update on the construction of Nsama Boarding School is as follows:

1.  the construction of Nsama Boarding Schools in Chimbamilonga Parliamentary Cosntituency has stalled because of financial constraints;
2. the project will resume in 2023 subject to availability of funds;
3. the stage of completion of all the construction of the school as of August, 2022, was sitting at 50 per cent;
4. the cost of outstanding works is K36,865,521.98; and
5. the timeframe for completing works is two years subject again, to availability of funds.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mrs Chonya (Kafue): Madam Speaker, I just want to find from the hon. Minister of Education what the general policy will be regarding the completion of this particular school and many other schools. I also have such a school in Kafue called Chikupi School and others that I am aware of in the …

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, let us stick to the question. This is a constituency-based question. Let us not expand it.

Mrs Chonya: Thank you, Madam Speaker, for your guidance. Really, how does the Government intend to approach the completion of these schools including the one we are discussing?    

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I think I have repeatedly talked about stalled infrastructure, many of them dating back to 2013 or 2014. Generally speaking, if that is what everybody wants to hear, we intend to complete these secondary schools. If I am not mistaken, we will complete twenty of them this year, and the rest next year. So, this is what we are trying to do. I know Chikupi Secondary School is at an advanced level than Nsama Boarding School. The idea is to complete all the schools in order to have space for many children in school, courtesy of free education.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Elias Musonda (Chimbamilonga): Madam Speaker, did the hon. Minister say the school is at 50 per cent? If one went on the ground, one would find that most of the infrastructure at the school is complete, but the hon. Minister said it is at 50 per cent. Since on the ground most structures are complete, would the hon. Minister not consider the phased operationalisation of the school so that we avoid vandalism? At the moment, we are lucky that there has been no vandalism.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I am happy that the hon. Member is saying that there is no vandalism at the school. Those are the societies we require. The hon. Member should go back and preach to the people that public property is public property. People must take care of public property and very few are doing that. In some schools, you will find vandals. So, I am happy that there is no vandalism at that school. I think one day, I will go to Chimbamilonga so that I appreciate the community there because Zambians have broken minds, in terms of vandalism. So, I commend the society for behaving this way and we will put in a lot in order to complete the school. However, the hon. Member should not say that vandals have not yet come. It is like he is assuming that they should come. No; they should not. That is their property, and property for their children. However, many people tell me that schools are being vandalised but to find a society which is not vandalising public property for their children is commendable.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: There are late indications; we need to move.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, mine may sound like a suggestion.

Madam Speaker, there are 156 hon. Members of Parliament and the hon. Minister keeps receiving similar questions on when certain school infrastructure will be completed. When we return after adjourning, is the hon. Minister in a position to issue a general statement on incomplete education facilities? Maybe, the hon. Minister can write a report and put the reports in the pigeon holes so that people know when the projects will be done because we might be asking routine questions which appear the same. Would the hon. Minister be in a position to come and guide all the hon. Members of Parliament because we all have infrastructure which is not complete.

Madam Speaker: That is a good suggestion. Hon. Minister, what do have to say to that?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, at the expense of repeating myself, I came here and talked about the fifty-six stalled schools, and I said they are at different levels. However, I will update everyone on the school in Matumbo, including Chibale Secondary School in Chama. So, the hon. Member’s suggestion is good. We will compile a list of incomplete schools and we will indicate the ones we will complete this year and those that we will complete next year, and the levels at which they are.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: In view of that suggestion, do we still need to go further with these indications?

Hon. Members: No.

Madam Speaker: I will only allow the hon. Member for Chimbamilonga to ask his second question.

Mr Elias Musonda: Madam Speaker, in fact, I will repeat the question. I asked the hon. Minister if he will consider opening the school in a phased approach, but he did not answer my question. So, I want him to declare whether he will operationalise the school in a phased approach or not.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister, are you willing to do that?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, first of all, like I said, what I know is that the school is at 50 per cent but the hon. Member claims it is more than 50 per cent. We do phased operationalisation some times, but it depends on how it will work. For example, you cannot carry out a phased approach if there are no water works or if there are just partial water works. So, we need to go and check whether we can do that. It is possible to consider operationalising a school in a phased manner because we have done that before. However, as regards the said school, I would not really vouch for that because I do not know whether we can carry out the phased operationalisation at this stage. So, the experts will go and guide, to see whether we can do that but it is possible.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

UPGRADE OF CLINICS IN CHAMA

255. Mr Mtayachalo asked the Minister of Health:

1. whether the Government has any plans to upgrade the following clinics in Chama North Parliamentary Constituency to mini-hospitals:

1. Kambombo; and
2. Chibale.

1. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
2. if there are no such plans, why.

Mr Nkombo on behalf of the Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to upgrade any of the clinics in the country to mini-hospitals. Therefore, Kambombo and Chibale clinics in Chama North Parliamentary Constituency will not be upgraded to mini-hospitals.

Madam Speaker, as stated earlier, the Government has no plans to upgrade Kambombo and Chibale clinics to mini-hospitals. Therefore, question (b) automatically falls off.

Madam Speaker, health services in Zambia are delivered in a service delivery structure that aims at providing health services as close to the family as possible. The House may wish to note that the service delivery structure has been reclassified and will only consist of the following:

1. health posts: as the lowest and nearest to the family;
2. health centres: these apply in urban and rural areas;
3. first level hospital: this is at the district level;
4. second level hospitals: these are general hospitals;
5. third level hospitals: these are central hospitals; and
6. fourth level hospitals: these are specialised hospitals.

Madam Speaker, going forward, clinics and mini-hospitals will be classified as health centres in urban or rural settings.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, the demand for quality health service is growing in my constituency because of the increasing population. Chibale is about 60 Km from Isoka. So, usually people have to travel to Isoka or Chinsali, which is very far, to access the health facility.

Madam Speaker, I am aware that the Government is rolling out mini hospitals. Is the Government not going to consider, at least, allocating one mini hospital so that it is able to service people in the constituency?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, as I had indicated in my maiden answer, I put in no uncertain terms the new classification, which excludes the nomenclature mini hospital. It is no longer there. It will not be there. It was there probably for decorative purposes. As the new Government in place, I have just tabulated the new classification and it does not include mini hospitals. This is not to say that there will be any laxity in the quest to increase the service deliver.

Madam Speaker, in the case of the Chibala Rural Health Centre, which the hon. Member of Parliament is lamenting about, let me inform him, the House and the country at large that it has four nurses, which include a midwife, one clinical officer and one environmental health technologist. So, the answer is that there will be no mini hospital, like I said in my maiden answer.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, we face similar challenges. Clearly the Government has looked at how – I know the hon. Minister has said they will not call them mini hospitals but these facilities were constructed country wide but Chama was left out.

Madam Speaker, is the Government considering putting up what it is calling level one or slightly advanced health facilities because the hon. Minister is saying they will not be called mini hospitals? The people of Chibale, Chikwa and Chifunda in my constituency need facilities where services such as miner operations and admissions can be done. Is the Government going to consider giving us such advanced medical services so that people do not cover a distance of more than 100km? During the rainy session, it is also impossible to take patients to Chama General Hospital or Lundazi General Hospital.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, tagging on from the hon. Members words that mini hospitals were being constructed throughout the whole country but Chama South was left out. Let him know that the country has not got sufficient medical facilities yet. Every end of the finishing line is the beginning of a new race.  Those who did not give you the mini hospitals ran their race, they finished it and we have now taken over.

Madam Speaker, like I said earlier on, it is in our quest to provide first class medical services to all our citizens in an equitable manner. So, I cannot tell you the day nor the time when this will be done but let us work together. That is the call statement. Where you feel that the service previsions to the constituency that you represent are lagging, let us sit together so that that as we prepare every budget for every preceding year, we can factor in the areas that seem to have gaps like the gap in Chama that was left by our erstwhile brothers, who ran their race up to 2021.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

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BILLS

HOUSE IN COMMITTEE

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

 Chair]

THE EXAMINATIONS COUNCIL OF ZAMBIA BILL, 2023

Clause 1, ordered to stand part of the Bill.  

CLAUSE 2 – (Interpretation)

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima): Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in clause 2, on page 4, in line 12 by the deletion of the words “or diploma”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 2, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 3, ordered to stand part of the Bill.  

CLAUSE 4 – (Functions of Board)

Mr Syakalima: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in clause 4, on page 5, in lines 32 to 34 by the deletion of the words “in the Republic” wherever the words appear and the substitution therefor of the words “at a basic school, high school and school for continuing education”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 4, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill

Clause 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 13 – (Inspection of Examination Centre)

Mr Syakalima: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in clause 13, on page 10, in line 1 by the deletion of the word “may” and the substitution therefor of the word “shall”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 13, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 and 26 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 27 – (Counterfeiting of Certificate or Diploma)

Mr Syakalima: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 27, on page 16:

1. in the marginal note by the deletion of the words “or diploma”; and
2. in line 26 by the deletion of the words “or diploma”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 27, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41 and 42 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 43 – (Regulations)

Mr Syakalima: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move and amendment in Clause 43, on page 22:

1. in lines 27 and 28 by the deletion of paragraph (e) and the substitution therefor of the following:
2. the appointment, qualifications, allowances and additional functions of examination officers;
3. in line 32 by deletion of the word “and” after the semicolon;

(c)        in line 33 by the deletion of the full stop and substitution therefor of a   semicolon; and

(d)       after line 33 by the insertion of the following new paragraphs immediately   after paragraph “(i)”

(j)          the manner of storage, retention and disposal of the examination scripts; and

(k)        the grounds and procedure for challenging examination results by a candidate.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 43, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 44 ordered to stand part of the Bill

First and Second Schedules ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Long Title ordered to stand part of the Bill.

HOUSE RESUMED

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bills were reported to the house as having passed through Committee with amendments:

The Examinations Council of Zambia Bill, 2023

The Anti-Terrorism and Non-Proliferation (Amendment) Bill, 2022

The Controlled Substances Bill, 2023

REPORT STAGE

The Examinations Council of Zambia Bill, 2023

The Anti-Terrorism and Non-Proliferation (Amendment) Bill, 2022

The Controlled Substances Bill, 2023

Report adopted.

Third Reading, today.

THIRD READING

The following Bills were read the third time and passed:

The Examinations Council of Zambia Bill, 2023

The Anti-Terrorism and Non-Proliferation (Amendment) Bill, 2022

The Controlled Substances Bill, 2023

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MOTION

ADJOURNMENT SINE DIE

The Minister of Defence and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Lufuma): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn sine die.

Question put and agreed to.

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The House adjourned accordingly at 1306 hours on Friday, 31^st March, 2023, sine die.

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