Friday, 3^rdMarch, 2023

The House met at 0900 hours

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_______

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I inform the House that the House Business Committee met on Thursday, 2^nd March, 2023, to determine and schedule Business of the House for the period 7^th March to 17^th March, 2023. Accordingly, the Committee resolved to lay before the House the following business for consideration:

Announcements

The Hon. Madam Speaker may make an announcement to the House on any day when it is necessary to do so.

Rulings

The Hon. Madam Speaker may render rulings, if there will be any.

Ministerial Statements

The ministerial statements hereunder will be rendered:

1. the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development will issue a statement on the matter of tarring of the major roads across the country on 7^th March, 2023
2. the hon. Minister of Health will issue a ministerial statement on the outbreak of typhoid in some parts of Petauke Central. This will be on 9^th March, 2023; and
3. other ministerial statements may be issued, if there will be any.

Motions

1. the hon. Member for Bahati, Mr Chibombwe, will present a Private Members’ Motion entitled “Restrict Auctioning of Public Assets to Zambians only”.This will be on 15^th March, 2023.
2. the debate on the Motion of Thanks to His Excellency the President’s Address will continue and conclude on Thursday,16^th March, 2023;

Bills

The Bills listed hereunder will be considered:

1. The Zambia Qualifications Authority Bill, 2022. This will be at the Second Reading stage and the date for consideration will be determined later; and
2. The Anti-Terrorism and Non-Proliferation (Amendment) Bill, 2022 will also come for Second Reading. The date for consideration is yet to be determined.

Parliamentary Committee Reports

The following Committee report will be considered:

1. Report of the Zambian Delegation to the 52^nd Plenary Session of the SADC Parliamentary Forum, held in Kinshasa, Democratic Republic of Congo from 4^th to 11^th December, 2022. This will be on 9^th March, 2023.

Questions

1. Her Honour the Vice-President Question Time

The House shall consider questions without notice during the Vice-President’s Question Time every Friday in accordance with Standing Order 80 of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021; and

Questions for Oral Answer

The hon. Ministers will respond to twenty-one Questions for Oral Answer, as set out hereunder. The details of the questions are contained in this statement, which will be circulated to all hon. Members and other stakeholders.

Madam Speaker, the House may also consider questions of urgent nature, if there will be any.

Madam Speaker, on behalf of the House Business Committee and in accordance withStanding Order 189(5) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021, I havethe pleasure to present the business for the next two weeks to this august House.

I thank you, Madam.

_______

THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to ask Her Honour the Vice-President a question.

Madam Speaker, in the recent past, there has been a scramble for deals within the United Party for National Development (UPND) leadership ranging from sugilite, manganese mines and, now, fertiliser. I have a newspaper with a headline that reads, “Hichilema stops fertiliser tender”. It goes on to say in the story that “… in there, I don’t see positive discrimination for local producers of fertiliser”.

Madam Speaker, first of all, it is shocking that the UPND Government has this time around started talking about positive discrimination towards the locals. It is very strange indeed. However, my question to Her Honour the Vice-President is: I would like her to assure the nation that the procurement of fertiliser for this year will not add to the long list of questionable transactions and scandals …

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mundubile: … that we have witnessed in the past year. We have a long list of questionable transactions and scandals, but the one on the procurement of fertiliser for this year does not smell good. I want Her Honour the Vice-President to assure the nation that the procurement of fertiliser for this year will not add to the long list of questionable transactions and scandals within the UPND Government.

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, it is not easy for me to really say thank you to the Leader of the Opposition, but, indeed, out of courtesy, I will say thank you.

Madam Speaker, I am struggling because it has been difficult for me to really understand where he is coming from and where he is going with his question. He is generally a very straight shooter. On this matter, I think it is because he, himself, is not sure of what he wants to say.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: He talks of scandals. I think hon. Colleagues here are supposed to praise the Governmentfor exposing illegality.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: I think it is important for people to understand that other people, where my son belongs (pointing at Mr Kampyongo), were sweeping things under the carpet.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President:This is the reality. Let us talk realistically. We do understand what is going on, but we have to go back and ask ourselves whether this has just started happening. How come our economy was destroyed with a trail of many wrong things going on? How many people were arrested?

Madam Speaker, I will talk about sugilite. The issue of sugilite is not a new matter in the country. It was going on under the former administration.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. PF Members: Question!

The Vice-President:It is on record that it was going on. It is on record that one hon. Minister in charge of a province is said to have stopped it. When you stopped it, that was very good, but who did you arrest?

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Hear me right.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Hear me right,please. English is not my first language, and I am struggling to make a point.

Madam Speaker, what I am saying is that if you stop something, it is because it is happening. You cannot stop what is not happening. So, who were involved? Why were they not arrested? The point I want to make on this matter to the people of Zambia is that the Government is walking the talk.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President:We declared that when you involve yourself in any illegality, you are on your own and some people thought it was a joke. When the President continuously says that “when you involve yourself in any illegality, you are on your own”, that is walking the talk. I think all of us should get it clearly. Who wants to punish their child? Unless your principles are stronger than ethnicity, then you can do that. Unless your principle is stronger than what you think is a relationship.This is what we are doing. This does not mean that there is more illegality during our time. It just means we are doing what we said we would do.

Madam Speaker, the President was here just last Friday, and he said clearly that he was going to deal with – of course he used the word ‘corruption’ – but I can say illegality of the past, present and future. This means that my hon. Colleagues and I, here, on this side of the House are not excused.

Hon. Government Members: Correct!

The Vice-President: If we are found wanting, we will be dealt with. This is what we are doing. The people of Zambia must not see us as scandalous. There were more scandals that were swept under the carpet in the past.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President:Madam Speaker, personally, I do not mind being investigated if there is an allegation because that is the way things should be done. This is the truth. That is the only way I will clear my name.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, let us give her time –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

We should avoid very deep questions because the feedback that Her Honour the Vice-President is going to give is also going to be a very big feedback. Let us be specific so that Her Honour the Vice-President can also give specific answers. We have many hon. Members waiting to ask questions. I have a list here that is quite long. Let us allow many hon. Members of Parliament to ask questions.

Her Honour the Vice-President, you may continue.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, thank you very much.

Madam Speaker, I am trying to respond because the hon. Member raised a number of issues. He actually talked about scandals in the procurement process. I think what he brought out was that there are scandals in the procurement process. He referred to a statement that has been made by His Excellency the President that he has not seen – that is what he cited, but I am not sure whether it is from a newspaper – positive discrimination in the procurement process of fertiliser.

Madam Speaker, hon. Colleagues should note that this is what we said. It is part of our manifesto. There should be positive discrimination. That means we want Zambians to grow the industry. Zambians have to participate in various economic activities. The Zambia Public Procurement Act has provisions on how a citizen can do that without breaching the law. So, we will work within the law to ensure that if there is any procurement that should go to Zambians by the law, it should be done. We are a law-abiding Government and we will do that.

Therefore, Madam Speaker, for the hon. Leader of the Opposition to say that there are questionable procurement transactions is not right. These are, indeed, procurement processes to help us as Zambians as we remain part of the global village. Charity begins at home. So, come on, bid for fertiliser.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): Madam Speaker, in the contract that the Government is going to undertake to construct the dual carriageway from Lusaka to Ndola, there is an implication that the recovery of funds by the contractor who will work on the road will be done through the tollgates. This implies that the Government, in effect, has borrowed funds which the contractor will be recovering. When the contractor starts to recover the funds, it will be as if the Government is paying back. So, we can say that, in effect, it is a loan. The Constitution of the land –

Interruptions

Mr Mtolo: Come again?

Mr Mukosa: Hon. Minister, you cannot just listen? What is your problem?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, can you please focus on your question.

Mr Mukosa: The hon. Minister of Agriculture is a problem. I do not know if he cannot just be quiet –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: No, can you just focus on your question so that you allow other hon. Members to also ask questions.

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, I want to find out from Her Honour the Vice-President whether we have complied with the requirement that before we borrow money, we need to bring the request for approval so that it is voted on by Parliament.

The Vice-President:Madam Speaker, I honestly thank the hon. Member for Chinsali for asking the question. I will say a few things, but we may have to come with a comprehensive statement on the matter through the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development.

Madam Speaker, nonetheless, we have said it will be done under a public private partnership (PPP) model. Therefore, the Government is not borrowing any money for the project. I think this issue is misleading the people. The Government is not borrowing money for the project. The contractor is the one who will find the financiers. It is not the Government. The Government has a relationship with the contractor and the contractor must have a relationship with the financier. That is how it works. Therefore, the Government cannot come to the House and ratify a loan that it has not contracted. The Government is not getting a loan from anywhere. We are not getting a loan. Let us not mislead ourselves. If the contractor chooses to get a loan, it can do so from any institution that has the capacity. It is a contract that will be signed between that institution and the contractor. Maybe, I did not understand, but as far as I know, the hon. Minister is here, and we are not getting a loan. So, I do not know, but Zambians must hear me: The Government is not getting a loan.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-president: The contractor is getting the loan and that will be negotiated between the financing company and the contractor.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity and good morning to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, how are the G-20 Common Framework Debt Restructuring talks going? Are there any timelines for the conclusion of the debt restructuring talks?

The Vice-President: I thank you, Madam Speaker, and good morning to the hon. Member for Nalolo. I thank him for that question.

Madam Speaker, maybe I have not fully understood it because he was talking about the G-20. I do not think that Zambia negotiates with the G-20. Maybe that is the understanding. What I know is that we work with the International Monetary Fund (IMF), which is our official creditor. Indeed, we have a relationship with it and discussions are going on to try and get to a conclusion. However, I cannot give the hon. Member any timelines. The G-20, or is it the Paris Club, is another entity, but we have not gotten into any negotiations with it. There could be individuals who are our creditors amongst the G-20, but that is a different matter. So, I cannot give timelines regarding business with an institution that we are not dealing with directly.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Madam Speaker, the former ruling political party and its leadership have, so many times, asked Zambians to forgive them. What sins did they commit ...

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: … that time in and time out, they continue to ask for forgiveness? Could it be the gassing situation; the national debt; the failure to tar the Katunda/Lukulu/Watopa Road; or the purchase of the fire tenders? What really are they asking Zambians to forgive them for? They have always asked for forgiveness, but have never come out in the open on the type of sin they want to be forgiven for. Could her Honour the Vice-President shed some light.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Unfortunately, you cannot raise a point order during the Vice-President’s Question Time. That is Standing Order 133.

Her Honour the Vice-President will continue.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank you and the hon. Member for Mitete who asked a question which makes it very difficult for me to come through. However, the question is very clear. The former ruling party members and the party itself have been asking Zambians to forgive them. He wants to know what sins they committed. He listed a number of things that included; the failure to tar the Katunda/Lukulu/Watopa Road, the purchase of fire tenders, the gassing and so on and so forth.

Madam Speaker, I will start from my own point of view: When one asks for forgiveness, it is a very good thing; that is if one does. However, in asking for forgiveness, one must admit that one did something wrong.

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: I cannot just be told to ask Hon. Kabuswe to forgive me. What for?

Laughter

The Vice-President: I am talking about humanity here. I cannot ask him to forgive me if I have done nothing wrong. Therefore, if somebody feels it is imperative for them –

Hon. PF Members:Muleya.

The Vice-President:Tatuleyaepotuli.

Laughter

The Vice-President: If they ask for forgiveness, they must start with an admission that we were wrong here and there. They do not need other people to tell them that they were wrong because that is when they start entrenching themselves in a wrong place.

Madam Speaker, if they have been asking for forgiveness, I think, through you, I will also just pose the same question: What was wrong? Why did Zambians choose to throw them out? If hon. colleagues are thinking of ever coming back, they have to start from there. “Why?” It is introspection time; “What did we do wrong?” That is so that they can come to our level, including stopping illegalities. “Did we stop corruption?” If they did not, it is time to honour up to the Zambians and say, “We are asking for forgiveness not just because we beat up people, but also because we did other things. So, forgive us.” Maybe, Zambians can say, let us reconsider and then put them back on the platform where we will start competing with them. We are already there and doing a very good job fighting corruption and illegality, and stopping cadreism, regionalism and every vice.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President:  Thank you very much, hon. Members.I think our colleagues have heard. It is an opportunity for them to say sorry and state whatever was wrong.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity.

Madam Speaker, everything the Government is doing now is the opposite of its campaign promises.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushanga: Madam Speaker, during the campaigns, the Government promised the people of Zambia that the price of fuel would be reduced. Is it being reduced?

Hon. PF Members: No!

Mr Mushanga: They promised that they would reduce the price mealie meal. Are they reducing?

Hon. PF Members: No!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member who is asking the question, you are not at a rally.

Hon. Opposition Members:Awe! Lekeniepushe!

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

I have not stopped you, the hon. Member for Bwacha, from asking your question. What I am not comfortable with is you engaging other hon. Members in your question. Please be specific and ask Her Honour the Vice-President your question without involving other hon. Members.

Mr Mushanga: Madam Speaker, thank you very much. The local currency is in trouble. The cost of living for our people has gone up and this is common knowledge. Even my hon. Colleagues on your right side know that the cost of living is very high.

Madam Speaker, when His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia sat where you are sitting last Friday, he said that 32,000 plus cases of divorce were recorded in the country. This is a very huge number. What has gone wrong? Has the Government come up with any tools to help establish the contributing factors to the high cases of divorce in the country? If so, are there any measures put in place to reduce the high number of divorce cases in Zambia.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Can we give time to Her Honour the Vice-President to respond.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Bwacha for the question. I really see that he is very serious with his question. Maybe, we should start with what he premised his question on. He said that what is happening in the country is opposite to all our campaign promises. That is a sweeping statement. Immediately you say that, hon. Member, you make everybody start saying “Eh, has he not seen this?” The hon. Member has forgotten that even though he is talking about the Dollar today, we found the exchange rate at K23 or K24 to a Dollar.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

The Vice-President: That is a fact. I do not want to be drawn into people’s emotions but this is reality. We are talking of 2021, August. Records are there.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Our timer has stopped working.

The Vice-President: It should not stop, Madam Speaker, because they are making noise. It should run.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Can we give Her Honour the Vice-President time to respond to the question that was raised by the hon. Member for Bwacha.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, we are talking to Zambians about Zambians, and therefore, we must be extremely serious. I was saying that the hon. Member premised his question on the cost of living on a very sweeping statement. We have done a lot in terms of improving the livelihoods of our people. Yes, nobody can say that the food prices are not high. However, look at the price of the staple food.

The timer stopped.

The Vice-President:Tayilenda! Let the time move.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker:Hon. Members, actually, I wanted to say that the watch has stopped. However, the ICT staff are busy working on it. If there will be any time that will be lost, we will add some extra time. We are sorry about that. The ICT desk is busy working on the issue.

You may continue, Her Honour the Vice-President:

The Vice-President:Madam Speaker, thank you. I was saying that the hon. Member gave a sweeping statement because a lot has happened. Even in the answer to the first question that I was asked, I said that in our manifesto, we would promote local industries in order to grow our economy. That is something. The road that we are working on, and on which hon. Members have asked questions, is a score. The free education policy is a score. The increase in the CDF is a score. I can go on. Stopping cadreism is a score. Even arresting people committing illegalities, which was not happening in the past, is a score. How can one honestly sit and say that everything that is happening is the opposite of what we promised? In your town, Sir, maybe, you do not buy mealie meal.

Mr Mushanga: Look at the Speaker.

The Vice-President:I will look at the Speaker. You can buy mealie meal in Kabwe at K120 today.

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

The Vice-President: In Kabwe, during a period like this, during the term of our hon. Colleagues on the left,  the price of mealie meal had gone up to K190. Why do we forget?

Hon. PF Members: Question!

The Vice-President: Come on! These are things that we should be looking at. We have talked about mealie meal issues here, for example. Today, in Kabwe, you can find a bag of mealie meal at K120. This is how hard working the Government is in ensuring that the lives of our people get better. This is what we are doing.

Madam Speaker, we are working to increase electricity production. What are you talking about? Are you talking about load shedding when solutions from our hon. Colleagues on this matter were something I cannot talk about? We have brought true solutions. So, we are following our manifesto to the letter. Do not cry when you are being probed. Do not cry when we probe the civil service. That is why we are here. We will not cry when we are probed. That is what we are doing and is part of our manifesto. So, I do not know where you come from, Sir, where everything is upside down. Otherwise, mealie meal in Kabwe is at K120.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to ask Her Honour the Vice-President a question.

Mr Michelowas inaudible.

Interruptions 

Mr Michelo:Madam Speaker, the moment the Patriotic Front (PF) start talking about coming back to power, I fear a lot especially when I remember the issues that happened in the country, like the burning of markets here in Lusaka, the killing of NsamaNsama,the killing of Kaunda, the killing of Vespers Shimunzhila, the killing of so many other people and the gassing of citizens. Their people who voted for them were gassed. The people who gassed the people of Zambia are saying they want to come back into power.

What message does Her Honour the Vice-President have for the people of Zambia so that they can never again start thinking about this political party, the Patriotic Front (PF) bouncing back because it committed heinous crimes in the country?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker:Order!

Are you through, hon. Member for Bweengwa? Are you done?

Mr Kalimi stood up.

Hon. Government Members:Iwe sit down!

Mr Michelo: Yes. I am about to conclude.

Your Honour the Vice-President, kindly advisethe people of Zambia of the crimes the PF committed during its reign of gassing its people; the citizens who voted for it.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. PF Membersstood up.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Resume your seats!

Interruptions

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members! Can you resume your seats. I know what to do.

Interruptions

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

We are painting a bad picture to the people who are watching this segment.

Hon. PF Members: How? He has to withdraw the question.

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: Wait. This is the problem; I talked about raising certain questions. Your questions hon. Members should have evidence.

Interruptions

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: Please hold on. Can we have order!

We are not asking questions to provoke each other. We are asking questions on the problems that we have and we want Her Honour the Vice-President to give us answers. However, we are now moving away and we are making this segment look like there is a battle.

Hon. Member for Bweengwa, your question is not admissible because there is no evidence and the matter about gassing has not yet been concluded. So, because of that, we will skip that question which has brought a lot of noise.

Interruptions

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: Should we stop this segment so that we move forward?

I will allow the hon. Member for Chienge to pose a question. We have not heard a voice from the Opposition.

Interruptions

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Bonsenamatoloshibalelwishaumwanakashi (while dancing).

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chienge, you are not supposed to dance.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to ask Her Honour the Vice-President a very important question, and it will be asked by the most powerful woman in Parliament …

Interruptions

Rev. Katuta: … who makes hon. Members of the United Party for National Development (UPND) shudder whenever she stands up.

Madam Speaker, may I find out from the Vice-President of this great nation what the Government is going to do about the boy child. We are all concentrating on the girl child, which is not a wrong thing, but most boy children are failing to get quality education that we are offering to the girl child. What will the New Dawn Government do for the boy children because most of them are dropping out of school?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for bringing the tempers down and for making the House come back to reality.

Madam Speaker, this question is a bit difficult for me to handle because I have to understand what exactly the hon. Member or the people see that is disadvantaging the boy child. For a long time, we knew that the girl child was left behind. Now the issue is leaving no one behind, and our policy does not discriminate against the boy child. Which specific programmes do people think are advantaging the girls rather than the boys? In fact, there are more schools that accept boys than girls. So, I may not give a proper answer unless I know the details of how the boy child has been neglected for this concern to come about.

Madam Speaker, otherwise, free education is for everyone. It is not only affirming the girl child. It is for everybody. Skills training is for everybody. However, in the education sector, I do not know of a policy to make it non-discriminatory. We want the boys and the girls to all have access to quality education. However, we cannot give a certain kit to a boy child because he does not need it. I think the hon. Member understands what I am saying being a woman. We cannot give the boys certain things that we give the girls because they are not affected. So, what are we giving girls that we are not giving boys? We need to understand. Maybe, the hon. Member who is concerned should come to my office so we can sit with the hon. Minister of Education and look at the issue. We really must find answers if there is a problem. For now, it is difficult for me to identify the problem.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, everything happens for a reason. The coming in of the New Dawn Government is for a reason and the phasing out of the former Government is also for a reason.

Madam Speaker, I want Her Honour the Vice-President to comment on the progress made so far, on the introduction of grants and loans to women and youths in Zambia. We are in the second year since the loans and grants started being implemented. Speaking for the people of Kalabo, as regards the grants for 2022 and 2023, they have warmly accepted the loan scheme for women and youths for 2023. Had all the previous Governments – I am not saying the former Government – empowered the women and youths the past decades, what would have been the position of the women and youths today? I do not know whether the question is clear.

Laughter

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: That is the problem of debating the question, but I hope Her Honour the Vice-President got something.

Her Honour the Vice-President, was the question clear? You can go ahead and answer the question.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, indeed there is a time and a purposefor everything. That is true. That is why we should fit into the one who gives time and purpose to do that which he wants. From what I get from the hon. Memberon the issue of loans and grants, I think he says that the people of Kalabo have accepted the scheme. I can say that the entire country has accepted the loans and grants. The issue of loans and grants to women and the youth is a very empowering programme. It is meant to reduce poverty, change and improve the livelihoods of the people. It is a good programme. We may not have done it before, under previous administrations, but this is the time for the New Dawn Government and they have come to the fore. We have loans and grants under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and they havegone a long way. All hon. Members are smiling because they are giving loans and grants to their people. I believe everybody who is here worries and cares about the people in their constituency. So, they are able to give grants and loans provided by the New Dawn Government.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, we also have small loans, for example, under small and medium enterprise. That is another component of empowering our people including the Marketeer Booster Loans Empowerment Programme that empowerseven a marketeer that sells tomato to improve. Big companies grow from small things. Some will grow big out of this facilitation by the Government. So, other than Constituency Development Fund (CDF), the ministry of Small and Medium Enterprises is also doing a lot. People are asking for loans. Other than the Marketeer Booster Loans, there are other smaller loans where people are able to access resources up to a point where we can even reach a mechanisationstarting point.In Lunte, our members can get tractors so that in our farming where we use hoes, we can also start using tractors. For me or us; I am not anywhere, but I will say that for those in the Northern Province, the northern sector, we are hard workers but hampered by failure to have access to equipment.

Madam Speaker, this is an opportunity the Government is giving. We encourage our co-operatives to access such things so that we can come out of poverty.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: That is the importance of the loan scheme. So, it is not only the people of Kalabo who are smiling but also the people in Kaputa. I know the people of Mporokoso are smiling. Even those in Siavonga are smiling.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, the Government has continued to lament that it is a government of the rule of law. Matters of procurement are subject to the law. I sympathise with the hon. Minister of Agriculture, who is sitting next to her honour the Vice-President, over the procurement offertiliser.

Ms Mulenga: Naboondanokoonda!

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: Tendering processes are subject to the law.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Can we avoid those ruling comments. The hon. Member for Kalulushi, that was very loud.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, tender processes of any public procurement in the Government is subject to the Public Procurement Act. Last year, we had the issue of contracts being cancelled and we ended up receiving fertiliser very late. This year, the hon. Leader of the Opposition in the House pointed to an issue that is also speaking to the cancellation of the tender processes to procure fertiliser.

Madam Speaker, the question to her honour the vice-President is: What law is the President using to engage himself in the procurement processes in the manner he is doing?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, let me thank the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu for his concern. Let me say that the New Dawn Government is not lamenting about the rule of law. We are actually happy. We want to follow the rule of law. Maybe I did not understand exactly what the hon. Member said.

Madam Speaker, it is in the issue of fertiliser procurement and the hon. Member alleges that there is cancellation of the tender process. No, there is no tender process that has been cancelled. On the issue of positive discrimination, it is very unfortunate that this House is a political House. Whether we like it or not, it is a political House. Therefore, we take things that we are supposed to be happy about in a political manner and we want to oppose even that which is good.

Madam Speaker, what is the role of a President in the land? To start with, he is a visionaryfor the time that we are in power. He is the one who knows where we want to end and we all help him. He is not interfering in the process. He is simply guiding; that in your processes, can you ensure positive discrimination so that the people of Zambia can also participate.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: That is not cancellation. Surely, I thought that the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu would be happy because it gives him an opportunity to –

Hon. PF Member interjected.

The Vice-President: The rule of law means that.If there was the issue of the rule of law and if this was cancelled, we would be giving reasons within the rule of law but it has not been cancelled. So, I do not why we are bringing in whether we have broken the law or not. No, it has not been cancelled. I can assure you. There has been guidance that, as you go on through the processes, ensure that you also capture a Zambian.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: We have to empower Zambians legally in the right way. We have to do it colleagues.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Otherwise, who will do it? It is our duty as a government, which includes colleagues on the other side, to ensure we empower Zambians in the processes. Of, course, they have to qualify. The President is clear that there are three criteria that you should use. We need quality. Is it not?

Mr Muchima: Yes!

The Vice-President: We also need a good price and timely delivery. So, whether you participate as a Zambian, you must meet the three criteria. That is when you will say –

Mr Kampyongo interjected.

The Vice-President: You are making me talk too much you.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I will take a question from the last hon. Member; the hon. Member for Bwana Mkubwa. We only had one Independent member ask a question.

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker, I thank her honour the Vice-President for the answer she is giving to the House. I just wanted to find out what the Government is doing with the scramble for lithium in the country and other minerals to ensure that the funds from those minerals are channelled in a proper way and our local investors, the Zambians, benefit from that effect as well as the economy.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, it is a very important question. I will just give a short response, here, that scrambling for lithium is there. People want to get benefit out of what God has given Zambia. However, remember that this is a new mineral in our country. The Government is working to incorporate it in the new mining policy. I think, we have said here that the new mining policy, again, there should be positive discrimination. It is important that Zambians benefit out of this mineral.

Hon. UPND Members: Correct!

We are trying to put things in order so that people can mine properly. We are not throwing away foreign investment, but Zambians must also be there. This is what we are doing. We are working on it. It is a new mineral, so we are trying to work on it, including the pricing, so that Zambians can benefit and even through the Treasury, so that the tax issues are also involved.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

_______

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

ALLEGED ILLEGAL MINING OF SUGILITE IN CHEMBE DISTRICT

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Kabuswe): Madam Speaker, thank you very much –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, we want to listen to the ministerial statement in silence.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to address the House and the nation at large on the alleged illegal mining of sugilite in Chembe District of Luapula Province.

Madam Speaker, the ministerial statement is being delivered arising from your directive following Hon. Munir Zulu, Member of Parliament for Lumezi and Hon. Ronald Chitotela, Member of Parliament for Pambashe respectively, who rose on a matter of urgent public importance directed at the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development.

Madam Speaker, allow me, in the first place, to inform the House that sugilite is typically a gem type of manganese which occurs and is associated with manganese deposits. It has a very attractive purple-violet colour due to the presence of manganese, and is popularly used in jewellery. I, therefore, wish to confirm to the House that the ministry is aware of the illegal mining of sugilite in Chembe District of Luapula Province.

Madam Speaker,in October, 2020, following an application for a large-scale exploration license by Bayan Construction Limited for iron ore and manganese in Chembe District of Luapula Province, the ministry through the Mining Cadastre Department granted an exploration license number 27282-HQ-LEL over an area of 20,747.82 ha of land. The license was granted for a period of four years effective 20^th October, 2020 up to 19^th October, 2024. During the period of exploration for iron ore and manganese, the company has obtained a decision letter for the environmental project brief from the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA) and submitted an environmental impact assessment statement for the proposed development of a large-scale manganese mine in line with conditions stipulated under the license.

Madam Speaker, following revelations of the illegal mining of sugilite within the license area for Bayan Construction Limited, which I alluded to earlier, the ministry through the Geological Survey Department conducted a verification inspection from 10^th February, 2022 to 15^th February, 2022, to ascertain the occurrence of sugilite. The findings revealed that during the exploration by Bayan Construction Limited, there were illegal mining activities of manganese by the surrounding communities which exposed sugilite mineralisation. To prevent the illegal exploitation of the mineral, the ministry and Bayan Construction Limited through the Luapula Provincial Administration facilitated the deployment of Zambia Police Service officers to provide security at the mine.

Madam Speaker, I inform the House that following the spate of illegal mining activities within the exploration license area for Bayan Construction Limited, the company commenced court action against the illegal mining activities. The company has since been granted a restraining order to prevent illegal mining activities within its license area.

Madam Speaker,allow me to reiterate that the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development has confirmed the presence of sugilite within the license area of Bayan Construction Limited.

Madam Speaker, various reforms are being undertaken to ensure that the mining sector is revitalised through the ongoing implementation of the new National Mineral Resources Development Policy which was launched last year to fast-track increased productivity for the mining sector in respect of minerals such as copper and other strategic minerals such as nickel, cobalt, lithium and manganese. Further, my ministry is undertaking institutional reforms which will result in the creation of the minerals regulatory commission to properly regulate the exploration of mineral resources.

Madam Speaker,the ministry is also in the process of refining the legal frameworks such as the Mines and Minerals Development Act No. 11 of 2015 that govern the mining sector to ensure that the environment is conducive for both foreign and local investments. Local investments have been prioritised as they are critical in the sector to enhance the participation of Zambians in the mineral value chain.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, I assure this august House and the people of Zambia at large that the Government under the leadership of His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, and Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, is committed to ensuring that minerals are developed and managed for the benefit of the people of Zambia.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, you are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development.

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to ask the hon. Minister a question. The hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development is aware of the challenges Zambia has in getting resources to develop this country, a country that is endowed with such abundant precious minerals. He is aware that the first President, Dr Kaunda protected Lufwanyama because of emeralds. Now, there is sugilite and gold everywhere. Should Zambia continue to struggle to find resources to develop this country with the abundance of all these precious minerals? I have given an example of what happened in yesteryears in protecting areas that are endowed with precious minerals. So, what is the Government intending to do about protecting the country’s minerals? Is the Government considering to properly manage these resources vis-à-visthe gold, sugilite and all these other endowments?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Nkana for that very important question and I am glad that it has been asked. The number one thing we need to do as a country is to get organised. We are coming from a regime that was in proper disorganisation. Now, I want to give a background so that we know why we are where we are today.

There cannot be a future without referring to history.

Hon. Government Members: Correct!

Mr Kabuswe: There can never be.

Madam Speaker, the minerals that we are talking about; gold and sugilite, are in the ground. You have to mine them out. However, you cannot mine in confusion or while in court. Most licenses were in court and people were fighting. There was no organisation. So, what we did as the New Dawn, being methodical and organised, was to structure a new Mining Policy that would be a vehicle for how we are going to make our country benefit from those resources.

Hon. Government Members: Lecture them!

Mr Kabuswe: In this policy, Madam Speaker, for the first time, Zambia is going to have regulation within the mining sector by creating the Mineral’s Commission. As I am giving you this answer, our people are seated at the Ministry of Justice trying to finalise the creation of the Mineral’s Commission, which will now be the controller or the regulator of activities.

Madam Speaker, secondly, ...

Mr Mundubile: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kabuswe: ... we have done a concept paper on artisanal and small-scale miners to organise them. As I am talking to you, the implementation programme is ongoing. Thanks to the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, we have been financed to organise ourselves. To get these things, you have to be structured. You have to have an organised system of doing things and this is what we are doing.

Madam Speaker, this Government is very alive to the fact that Zambia is endowed with a lot of mineral wealth. However, for us to do it, we have to be structured. We have to do it in a proper way so that Zambians can now begin to benefit from those resources.

So, the programmes are in place and, very soon, Madam Speaker, we will be announcing, for example, the solution on Mopani Copper Mines (MCM) because we know that it is dear to the heart of the hon. Member for Nkana. Very soon, we will also be announcing the solution on Konkola Copper Mines (KCM). We want to do it in a structured and organised manner so that Zambians can benefit from the mineral resources.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mundubile: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, my point of order is pursuant to Standing Order 44. I could have raised it earlier, but the segment that we were in does not allow for points of order.

Madam Speaker, there was a question from the hon. Member for Mitete, Hon. Mutelo. He wondered why the Patriotic Front (PF) has been apologising to the people of Zambia. I thought that Her Honour the Vice-President was not in a position to provide information. So, as the Leader of the Opposition, I am here to provide information.

Interruptions

Mr Mundubile: Standing Order 44.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Let him finish then a ruling will be given.

Ms Mulenga: Yes, long live, Madam Speaker!

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, some of the reasons for which we have been apologising include –

Interruptions

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, we left the cost of fuel at K17 for petrol ...

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Mundubile: ... and K15 for diesel. We thought this was very high. We, therefore, apologise.

Hon. Government Membersstood in protest against the point of order.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, we apologise for the price of mealie meal being at a K100. We thought it was very high.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, resume your seat.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Please, resume your seat.

Mr Mundubile resumed his seat.

Interruptions

Hon. Government Membersresumed their seats.

Ms Mulenga:Kuyabebele

Rev Katuta:Tiyemwanamayo, tiye!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, Hon. Members!

Hon. Member for Chienge, please, lower your voice.

Hon. Members, we are wasting the people’s time. We are wasting the time for the people who are listening to this very important programme. We do not know what is happening today. We are using this House to settle differences, which is not supposed to be the case.

Hon. Members are supposed to be given permission to stand up and debate, but what we are seeing now is that anybody can stand up and just talk from nowhere.

Mr Mufalali interjected

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Mufalali, please.

Hon. Opposition Members: Leave the House!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Can we have order!

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Can we have order!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I gave permission to the hon. Leader of Opposition to raise his point of order. Unfortunately –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Why are you doing my job? Please, I do not need your assistance. Let me do my job as a presiding officer. Let me guide or make a ruling. I do not need anybody’s assistance. The only people that are supposed to assist are the Clerks at the Table, but it is like we all want to be presiding officers.

Mr Kapyanga: Shame!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We are destroying the decorum of this House.

Hon. Leader of the Opposition, in the point of order that you raised, you quoted Standing Order 44, which just speaks about the duties of the Leader of Opposition. However, I could not even hear the point of order that you raised because there was too much noise in the House. I cannot even say the point of order is admissible or not because I could not get anything.

Could we maintain the decorum of this House and behave as hon. Members of Parliament who are representing their people. The people are listening attentively. Give them a chance to listen to what is going on in the House. I do not want hon. Members to debate while seated. I am afraid I will just have to start sending people outside.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We have to observe decorum in the House. Let us follow the Standing Orders. They are very clear. When you want to talk, you indicate rather than just stand up and make a lot of noise. That is not allowed in this House.

The hon. Leader of the Opposition, what is your point of order, in summary? You had indicated the Standing Order.

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, it is also important to note that Article 74 of the Constitution provides for the Leader of the Opposition and Standing Order 44 spells out the duties of the Leader of the Opposition. In this case, an issue was raised, which needed a response from this side because Her Honour the Vice-President –

Hon. Government Members: No!

Interruptions

Mr Mundubile: I am quoting the Standing Orders.

Madam Speaker, one of my duties is to provide alternative policy and information to the Government. All I am doing is providing information because the question –

Hon. Government Members: No!

Mr Mundubile: That is what the Standing Orders say.

Hon. Government Members: No!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is the point of order?

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Mitete asked what the Patriotic Front (PF) has been apologising for. The information regarding that question is that when we were leaving power, fuel was at K17 and K15 per litre. We apologise because it was too high.

Interruptions

Mr Mundubile:The cost of fertiliser was at K650 per 50 kg bag, Madam Speaker. It was too high and that is why we apologised…

Ms Kasanda rose.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, we also apologise that the stock levels for drugs was over 85 per cent. That was too –

Interruptions

Ms Kasanda: Madam Speaker, are we all going to bring our manifestoes in here?

No, Madam Speaker. We are all not going to bring manifestoes in here.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker:Order, hon. Members!

Ms Kasandaroseagain.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

I just guided the House.  Leader of the Opposition, you have brought out a point or an issue that has already been covered. According to our standing orders, you can use another channel …

Interruptions

Ms Kasandaleft the Assembly Chamber.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker:Order, hon. Members!

I have not finished giving my ruling. The Leader of the Opposition will find another channel of raising his matter if at all, there is an issue that was not adequately covered. This is because we have already passed that stage.

As for the hon. Minister of Information and Media, who has just walked out, I think hon. Members we should – Hon. Members, I have already mentioned that we need decorum in this House. This is a very dignified House and I think there is a way of airing our grievances when we are happy or not. So, let us observe what our standing orders instruct or guide us to do. If there is any hon. Member who is not happy with the actions of the hon.Minister, there is a way of airing that grievance instead of shouting, please.

Let us move forward.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, permit me to advise my fellow hon. Colleagues to tone down their tempers as we try to find solutions to problems in the country.

Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development has solutions to the problems that we have in this country, like finance and depreciation of the Kwacha.

Madam Speaker, if you travelled around the African continent, especially the Southern Africa, you would understand that all the legislation that those countries use was copied from Zambia, yet, we are still working on registering new rules in mining.

Madam Speaker, we have the story of sugilite and lithium. Just from the deposits of lithium we have in the Southern and Eastern provinces, we are able to pay all our debts within a period of thirty-six months. Why are we still working on establishing legislation which we already have on other minerals?

Madam Speaker, all we have to do is include details of Lithium mining in the existing legislation on minerals and everything will be processed. Namibia copies everything from Zambia, and yet it is way above us. 

Madam Speaker, why are we wasting time not actualising the sale and processing of Lithium in this country when the whole world needs the mineral?

Mr Mukosa:On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker:Order!

A point of order is raised by the hon.Member for Chinsali.

Mr Mukosa: Thank you Madam Speaker, for allowing me to rise on this point of order.

This point of order is supported by Standing Order 203,that is onconduct of members, and it reads as follows:

“(1)      A member shall at all times conduct himself or herself in a manner that upholds the dignity, integrity and decorum of the House;

(2)        A member shall not act in a manner that brings the House or other members generally into disrespu, disre, disrepute.”

Laughter

Ms Mulenga: Nabomfwa!

Interruptions

Mr Mukosa:Madam Speaker, when the hon. Minister of Information and Media walked out of the House, firstly, she did not bow according to how we are supposed to behave as hon.Members. Secondly, she made a gesture that was very disrespectful against your office, Madam Speaker, where she did like this, (Mr Mukosaraised his hand). That was a very disrespectful gesture.

Interruptions

Mr Mukosa:Madam Speaker, your office and your Chair are supposed to be respected at all times by us as hon. Members, so that we uphold the dignity and decorum of this House. Was the hon. Minister in order to disrespect your office that we respect so much?

I seek your serous ruling, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker:Thank you hon. Member for that point of order.

Hon. Members, of course, I saw what happened on the Floor. I do not know whether it was directed at the office of the Speaker or to someone else. I will need time to investigate the matter and come back to the House with an informed ruling.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, in response to the question that was raised by hon. Member for Nyimba on the mining of Lithium, I am not really sure what he meant when he talked about legislation which we are changing. I am not really getting what he is saying. However, what I can say is that whenever one wants to get something started, one must be organised, and that is exactly what we are doing. So, we are organising ourselves. Hon. Member, believe you me, watch the space. You will see this nation benefit from its mineral wealth. That is why we have the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development.

I thank you. Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Correct. Hear, hear!

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-tezhi): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development for the great efforts he is putting in to bring the ministry back on track.

Madam Speaker, my question is with regard to the various reforms that the hon. Minister is implementing in the ministry, and I know, …

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

We will first allow the hon. Member on the Floor to finish asking his question, then we will come to you, hon. Minister for Southern Province.

Mr Mutinta: Madam Speaker, perhaps my question concerns part of the reforms the hon. Minister is implementing in bringing the ministry back on track. Is decentralising the offices of the mining bureaus from the provinces to the districts one of the priorities? This is because what is happening right now is that the district commissioners (DCs) are now susceptible to conversations because the mining bureaus are only at provincial level.  They are not stationed in the districts and some of the districts that have mineral wealth, especially artisanal small-scale miners, need support of the mining bureau officers.

Madam Speaker, what is the hon. Minister’s comment on that point, and what is the ministry doing to ensure that they get down to districts?

Madam First Deputy Speaker:Hon. Members, it seems we are not making headway because there are a lot of points of order. Even the hon. Minister who is responding to the questions, sometimes gets confused as to what is going on. He can even forget what the question is all about. If we have a point of order, please, let us weigh it to see if it can be raised as a question to the hon. Minister who is still attending to the issues raised in his ministerial statement instead of using points of order.

Let us also not use points of order to debate. They are raised when there is a breach of procedure.

However, we are now using points of order to fight each other. We are wasting people’s time and taxpayers’ money. There are so many challenges out there. There are floods and people want food. So, there are many challenges. Why not restrict ourselves to such issues so that the people who sent us here benefit from us, rather than just talking and raising points of order to fight one another. I am interested in seeing progress. So, I will allow the last two points of order so that we make progress. The people want to listen to what you are presenting here and the issues you are bringing up here. They need feedback. They want to hear the solutions that you are coming up with in this House, rather than us fighting because that will not help our people. We are wasting taxpayers’ money.

I will allow the hon. Minister for Southern Province to pose his point of order. The last point of order will be from the hon. Member of Parliament for Mpika, and that will be it for today, so that we make good progress for the sake of our people. Let us avoid questions or statements that will provoke other people. We are not here to fight. We are here to represent the people.

Hon. Minister for Southern Province. What is your point of order?

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to rise on what I believe is a very important point of order.

Madam Speaker, being one of the few senior Members of this House, who understands the traditions and customs of this august House, I rise on a point of order anchored on the traditions and customs of this House, particularly to do with defending the decorum of this House.

Madam Speaker, it is a well-established and trite matter on the Floor of this House that the Leader of the Opposition is part of management of this august House and, therefore, should help in maintaining order in this House, and particularly in observing the rules and regulations that govern the conduct of Business of this House. To that extent, he is aware or ought to be aware, but being the Leader of the Opposition, he is aware that once matters have been dispatched off, such as matters arising out of The Vice-President Question Time, none of us hon. Members can rise and talk about matters that have already been dispatched as Business of the House through a point of order or any other avenue. Instead, he opted to rise and raise frivolous and vexatious issues, all in an attempt to assume visibility, but incidentally promoting disorder of the highest order on the Floor of this House, which is totally uncalled for, especially when you understand the demeaner of Members of the Patriotic Front (PF). When they were on your right side, Madam Speaker, and I was here –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Hon. Provincial Minister, can you please be focused so that you do not debate your point of order. Just be focused and summarise your point of order.

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, my point of order is anchored on the traditions and customs of this House practiced here and around the Commonwealth, and some of the new hon. Members of Parliament from the PF may not understand.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, you know that I rarely rise on points of order but I am deeply concerned about the demeaner, the disorder and the chaos hon. Members of the PF used to exemplify and exhibit on the Floor on this House, and even now after they lost elections when they are supposed to assume a posture of humility. They have exported it to your left.

Rev. Katuta: He is debating.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

Hon. Member of Parliament for Chienge, I did not permit you to debate. Whether the hon. Minister is debating or not, I had guided that do not help me do my job and you are supposed to be permitted to speak. So, hon. Member, can you observe the Standing Orders.

Hon. Minister for Southern Province, it is like you are now debating. It will be very difficult for me to make a ruling, if it is a debate. A point of order is supposed to be precise. Are you winding up your point of order?

Mr Mweetwa: Yes, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, my point of order is straightforward. Is the Leader of the Opposition in order to veer away from the obligation of the mandate of his office of assisting you the Presiding Officer maintain decorum and order in this House by rising on frivolous and vexatious issues contrary to the rules that are well established? The precedent in this House is that him being a lawyer like myself, he is supposed to observe furtherance of good conduct of the Business of the House.

I need your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speakers: Hon. Minister, you have heavily debated your point of order. It was a very important point of order, but if I remember very well, I guided the Leader of the Opposition that he cannot raise a point of order on a matter that has already been covered. However, just to ride on that, it is not only the Leader of the Opposition who is supposed to help the Presiding Officer maintain the decorum of the House, but even the Whips in this House are also supposed to do that. So, can the Whips do their work as well.

We can move on. The hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, it is very interesting in the House today. I thank the hon. Member for that important question.

Madam Speaker, let me hasten to say that apart from the reforms that we are carrying out, as we are talking, the Licensing Committee is sitting, so it can give licenses to people so that they go into production. Let me take advantage of this question to make it clear to the House that as we are carrying out reforms, we have not stop working or ensuring that there is productivity in this country. If you look at the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) reports today, there is an increase in benefit from the minerals in Zambia since the New Dawn Government assumed office. That shows you that we are on a positive path. So, we are carrying out reforms that will gravitate even to districts through the Mines and Minerals Commission, which will be the first of its kind, and will be a regulator because as Minister, I cannot be everywhere. I assure you that more capacity will be built in the Mines and Minerals Commission. It will go beyond what the bureaus were doing. The bureaus were just figure heads and were not even considered previously. However, the ministry is coming up with a commission that will be a stronger force and regulator to make sure that occurrences of legal mining are actually lessened.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I had reached the conclusion of my response before the break.

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order pursuant to Standing Order 204(g) and 205(a). Standing Order 204(g) states that a member shall listen in silence to the debate in the House. 205(a) states that defies a ruling or direction of a presiding officer. I raise this point of order against the hon. Member of Parliament for Mbabala and the Minister of Informationand Media. The hon. Member of Parliament for Mbabala, who in most cases if not making noise, is catching a nap.

Hon. Members: Question!

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, when you were giving guidance, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mbabala was busy engaging usin side shows, calling us all sorts of names including the common name in here ‘masholi’. Washe in order to continue making running commentaries that disturb the flow of debate and your directive such that at times, we even fail to get what you are directing Members of Parliament to do. The hon. Minister of Informationand Media, as you gave a ruling, grabbed her microphone which is usually on and started talking, saying that it was not fair. This meant that your ruling was not fair. She then decided to walk away. Under our standing orders…

Hon.Government Member: You should have raised it then.

Mr Kapyanga: ...another one is there busy making noise instead of speaking for the people of Zambia. They are the people who I am raising the point of order against because we are here to speak for the people of Zambia. People want to listen to what the Government officials are saying and so they are glued to both radio and television. The hon. Minister of Minesand Minerals Development is on the Floor of the House. His ministry is very important and the people of Zambia want to hear what his ministry is doing to ensure that resources are well mobilised for medicine and other supplies in hospitals. Are they and the Minister of informationand Media in order to continue making noise thereby defying your ruling? I seek your very serous ruling so that a precedent is not set that in Parliament we can do anything we feel like doing.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, let us try to be precise when we are raising a point of order. Avoid debating the point of order. We cannot admit that point of order. I think you have raised issues on a ruling to a point of order by the Minister of Information and Media that I was going to study the matter and that the final ruling would be brought to the House. I think we had closed on that one.

As for the other part of your point of order, I keep on guiding the House. Today, unfortunately, the House was a bit unruly. Following the standing orders that we have, we do not know the reason for that. There were actually many people that were out of order. They did not obey the standing orders. There were quite a number. I went further to guide the House that we should not waste time. We were sent here by the people and are using tax payer’s money. I had guided earlier on. So, all the people who misbehaved today, for the lack of a better word, were out of order. So, this being the last point of order, can we have a new beginning. Let us behave honourably and give chance to the people who are listening to this sitting.

Mr E. Tembo (Feira): Madam Speaker, I just want to put it on record that I have gained a lot of wisdom from you whilst in that seat and I pray that God continues to grant you more wisdom in order to keep this House productive.

Hon. opposition Members: Amen!

Mr E. Tembo: Thank you

Madam Speaker, I listened to my brother, the hon. Minister of Mines and MineralsDevelopment, whom I want to thank for talking about mining reforms and a lot more, but obviously was perturbed when he talked about the previous regime in the last ten years. I know that mining regimes in the country started in 1964 and we had been mining even before 1964. So, there are many instruments involved. Right now, what we need is to take action. I was expecting that the hon. Minister would tell us what exactly the Government is doing to promote the artisans and the small-scale miners in developing them into large-scale miners instead of thinking about t Vedanta Resources and all the Americans.

Madam Speaker, I am aware that there was a memorandum of understanding where America will come in to control our copper as well as cobalt because of these electric vehicles. However, the answer that the hon. Minister was presenting arose from the issue of the truck that was found laden with sugilite in Central Province and the hon. Minister was running away from the real issue. I want him, right now, to explain what the real issue of that truck was. Why was it being escorted by policemen? Who was behind it? What was the value thereof and how possible is it that minerals can be moved in that manner? He should tell us how protected our minerals are, particularly –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order! Hon. Member.

I think your question is very wid. Can you try to be specific to a particular issue that you want the hon. Minister to respond to.

Mr E. Tembo: Yes. That is exactly what I am addressing right now. It is just that the hon. Minister was running away from the issue. I want him to come back to the real issue.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is your question?

Mr E. Tembo: The real issue is that truck carrying illegal sugilite by suspected senior United Party for National Development (UPND) cadres. I want that point to come out. Can he explain what is happening and the value of those assets?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, first and foremost, I thank the hon. Member for that question, though it is filled with many falsehoods.

Madam Speaker, this country has not given America to come and control the copper. That is a lie.

Interjections

Mr Kabuswe: Maybe, it is unparliamentary, but that is a falsehood. That is not what we are doing. The hon. Member is a lawyer. When he presents issues, he must be sincere.

Madam Speaker, he talked about reforms. We are carrying out reforms because we want to do things in a structured way. He also talked about artisanal and small-scale miners. I just said that we have done a concept note and we have already organised the small-scale miners into co-operatives and implementation has begun. Very soon, you will see an aggregator of gold, where we will be aggregating gold and giving these co-operatives safe methods of mining. To us, gold is a game changer. We do not want the Kasenseli Gold Mine kind of situation, where people were ransacking the mine. We do not want those things and that is why we have structured the industry. Just watch the space.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member has asked a question which should be directed to the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security because it is the one investigating the matter. All I can tell him is that he has seen for himself that this Government is not shy to even arrest people who belong to it. So, I will not delve into that because investigations are ongoing. If he wants more details, he is free to put in a question to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security and he will be given those details.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, I was paying attention to the statement that the hon. Minister was delivering. In that statement, he referred to specific minerals. The mineral under discussion is sugilite, but he also referred to lithium and many other minerals. My follow-up question to the hon. Minister relates to the three stages of mining. First, you do exploration and after exploration, you confirm that there is a resource here. Then, you undertake the next two stages. Is the hon. Minister in a position to inform this House and the country the areas that have this very important mineral called sugilite and whether these areas already have licences?

Mr Kabuswe:Efiipusha a bamanoifi.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Meaning what, hon. Minister?

Mr Kabuswe: This is how wise people ask questions.

Madam Speaker, thank you very much –

Interruptions

Mr Kabuswe: I am just complimenting him.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, let us give the hon. Minister chance.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, thank you very much. Right now, sugilite is only confirmed in Luapula Province and it is under a licence. Like I explained in the ministerial statement, the current licence holder has the environmental project brief, meaning that after all these processes, he has to go into mining, just like the hon. Member said. Of course, the Government is in discussions, but because of the sensitivity of that area, I may not give a policy statement now until these discussions around that mine are concluded. This is Parliament so I may not give half-baked information. So, for now, the presence of sugilite is only confirmed in Luapula Province and I must emphasise that sugilite, like I said in the statement, does not occur in isolation. It is actually part of manganese and that it is how come it is found in a manganese mine.

Madam Speaker, I do not know whether I got the second part of the question. I seek your indulgence that if I have left out something on the second part of the question, the hon. Member can give it to me so that I answer it clearly.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: In fact, the rules of the House are that each hon. Member asks only one question.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, it is the same question, but I think there is something I did not get at the end.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, the question was: Which areas have sugilite? The hon. Minister has indicated that it is only Luapula. I had asked whether there is a licence for the other areas where there might be sugilite.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, like I said, the only confirmed area is Luapula Province and there is a licence for Bayan Construction Limited. It is an exploration licence, by the way, not a mining licence.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his explanation that there are certain reforms that are currently going on his ministry pertaining to the mining sector. What is the timeframe he has attached to these reforms to be actualised? The country is in dire need of some of these minerals such as gold, lithium and the latest, sugilite, because they can bring resources into the national coffers. What is the timeframe he has attached to the reforms?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that very important and wise question. The reforms are already being implemented as we sit. It is not that we are sitting and writing alone. We are done with concept notes, reforms and policy. Right now, it is implementation time. It is not like we are futuristic in the way we are looking at these reforms. The implementation processes have already begun. On the artisanal side, we have visited sites and already identified where the offices will be and where we will be meeting co-operatives. The marketing centres have already been identified. So, the processes of implementation are already in place. In terms of the minerals commission, the structure is already there. We are actually in implementation gear as I talk to you right now.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I will take the last two questions from the hon. Member for Chembe and the hon. Member for Chienge in that order.

Mr C. Mpundu (Chembe): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister is aware that countries where conflicts have arisen to the apex have mineral resources. So, it is just prudent that the quicker the Government does the processes, the better. Let me focus on Muombe Mine which is in question. The happenings at Muombe Mine have continued and the people of Chembe are the ones on the losing side always. They are being exploited. People move there and misbehave, and so on and so forth. When are we going to see Muombe Mine operationalised? When are mining activities going to start happening legally and not illegally the way it has been? My people are waiting. No one has been arrested from my constituency pertaining to that mine because people there understand and we have talked to them. So, what the people need is for the Government to actualise that mine so that they start benefiting from it and so that matters that bring conflict are reduced.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is your question, hon. Member?

Mr C. Mpundu: My question is, when?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, if I got the hon. Member right, he asked “When?”

Mr C. Mpundu: Yes.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, if the hon. Member got my statement right, I said that the current exploration license holder has gone to court and, therefore, there is a restriction on the mine. So, whenever there is a restriction, we are bound by the law. It is beyond us until it gets out of court. That is why this Government has been saying we cannot mine in court. If he heard me clearly when I answered Hon. Kang’ombe, I said the Government is now sitting with the license holder to see whether the matter can get out of court so that we can proceed quickly and begin to get value out of the mine.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister say the ministry is formalising the license. The truth of the matter is that there is no license for sugilite, but for manganese, I stand to be corrected. As far as I am concerned, there is no one in Zambia at the moment with a license for sugilite. The hon. Minister can clarify on that.

Madam Speaker, in other countries where they have empowered their own, they have created co-operatives. For countries like China, Canada and others, that is what has made them to be where they are.

Madam Speaker, since the current mine does not have the license for sugilite, is the Government going to consider helping Zambians, who are the locals, to come up as investors in sugilite and not manganese.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I think it is clear. As I said, the Government is in negotiations. For us, empowering the locals, the youth and the co-operatives around any mining area is priority number one. We are saying that going forward, in all mining assets; sugilite, gold or copper, wherever they are domiciled, it is important for the locals to participate and have a stake. That is the route that we are taking as a matter of policy as the New Dawn Government. So, rest assured that the Government is taking that route.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: My apologies. The originator of the question was the hon. Member of Parliament for Lumezi Constituency. So, we will give him the chance to ask another question.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, what has caused a lot of these illegalities in copper, gold or Mukula business is these rigidities that are created. The Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA) sits, maybe, once a month. The Ministerial Advisory Committee (MAC) meeting takes place once a month. So, this creates room or pushes people to commit illegalities by virtue of the Government not expediting the process of doing paper work.

What is the Government doing, as a short term measure, to avoid the continued movement of what we are now calling illegal copper and sugilite? The hon. Minister said reforms are taking place right now, but people are planning on how to transport the mineral out of the country. So, what urgent short term measures have been put in place?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member is very right that what causes people to do things on their own is that they see that there is something that they can benefit from and yet there is no structure in place to make them access it legally. This is why this Government is now re-organising those people and making them into cooperatives so that we stop these processes.

Madam Speaker, you may remember that the declaration by His Excellency the President for this year was that we remove impediments and anything that is slowing down processes in the Government.

Madam Speaker, ZEMA has been problematic in releasing the Environmental Project Brief (EPBs) for various companies and we are trying, as the Government, now, to make it quicker for people to access their licenses.

The other measure is that we have now mandated MAC to be sitting continuously. So, it has been sitting for the past three days unlike in the past when it used sit just once a month. It would take three to four years for someone to access one’s license. He is very right. MAC has been a challenge. Sitting for once a month cannot be sufficient. We have a backlog right now of over 1,000 applicants. Now, you cannot manage to work on that number with one MAC sitting. So, we have now allowed it to be sitting. Of course, it will require more resources, but we have allowed that it sits continuously to deal with the backlog of so many applicants because we had an overwhelming response when Cadastre Mine was opening. So, those are some of the measures that we have put in place. We are working with ZEMA to enhance its reaction or action time so that quickly, licenses can be released to people and they can go into mining.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy speaker: I am very sorry that I cannot take the remaining three questions. We are behind schedule.

Mr Jamba: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We made a ruling that there are no more points of order because we have to finish what is on the order paper.

_______

QUESTION FOR ORAL ANSWER

REHABILITATION OF THE SEWER SYSTEM IN ROAN AND MPATAMATU TOWNSHIPS IN ROAN PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

182. Mr J Chibuye (Roan) asked the Minister of Water Development and Sanitation:

1. when the Kafubu Water and Sanitation Company will rehabilitate the sewer system in Roan and Mpatamatu Townships in Roan Parliamentary Constituency; and
2. why the Company has continued to charge sewer fees when the sewer system is non-functional.

The Minister of Water Development and Sanitation (Mr Mposha): Madam Speaker, the Government, through Kafubu Water Supply and Sanitation Company, in January 2021 commenced the rehabilitation of the sewer system in Roan and Mpatamatu townships. In December 2022, the Government released funds to upgrade and replace some critical sewer lines in order for the sewer to flow smoothly to the ponds, in the short term.

Notable in the sewer lines being upgraded and replaced in Roan Township are the upgrading of collapsed sewer lines in sections 8,9 and 10, and the construction of 325 toilets with manholes in section 2BB in Mpatamatu Township. Works involve desilting in sections 21, 22, 24 and 25.

Madam Speaker, the sewer system in Roan and Mpatamatu townships is functional. In some sections, there are blockages due to foreign particles or materials in the system. The Kafubu Water Supply and Sanitation Company does charge tariffs in accordance with the National Water Supply and Sanitation Council (NWASCO) approved tariffs for the provision of water and sanitation services. Theresidents who are being charged for services that are not rendered have their accounts corrected accordingly, subsequent to verification by the water utility company.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that cool and precise answer. Yes, indeed, Kafubu Water Supply andSanitation Company (NWASCO) commenced some works in Section 2BB as the hon. Minister has mentioned. Thehon. Minister talked about Kafubu Water Supply and Sanitation Company also conductingworks in Sections 8,9 and 10. I want to bring to the attention of the hon. Ministerthat the situation in these three sections, is worse and pathetic because Kafubu Water Supply and Sewerage Company has not yet started works there. Could the hon. Minister ask Kafubu Water Supply and Sanitation Company to expedite and live to what he has said in this House that the company should start works in sections 8, 9, 10 and parts of Mpatamatu?

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I wish to report to this House that recently, I undertook an “on-the-spot” check tour to Luanshya and I am grateful that the hon. Member who has asked this question was in my entourage. Unfortunately, when we went to Mpatamatu, we were met by a heavy downpour that disturbed our tour. However, I want to confirm that I have taken note of the hon. Member’s concern. As speak, the Kafubu Water Supply and Sewerage Company management team is listening. I can only urge it to expedite those works so that the challenges our people are facing, in terms of sanitation, can quickly be resolved. Other than them listening to this directive, I will also make a follow up in writing so that what the hon. Member of Parliament has asked for is attended to.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simbao (Luanshya): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the response that he has given to the hon. Member for Roan. In Luanshya, we are serviced by Kafubu Water Supply and Sanitation.  Kafubu Water Supply and Sanitation Company is not providing some of these services to the people of Luanshya. For example, in Mikomfwa or Ndeke, people have never seen a drop of water and the sewer lines are blocked. In New Town or Kamirenda, the situation is the same. The people of Luanshya would like to know why Kafubu Water Supply and Sanitation Company ischarging them. They want to know why they receive bills of not less than K500 per householdevery month?We appreciate the efforts that the Hon. Minister is putting in but the fear of thepeopleof Luanshya is that when they finally commission –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Luanshya, you are now debating. I thought I heard you raise a question.

Mr Simbao: Madam Speaker, the people of Luanshya would like to know why Kafubu Water Supply and Sanitation Company does not stop billing them until such a time when it will provide services to them.

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, Kafubu Water Supply and Sanitation Company is still providing services to the mentioned areas. However, it is true that thereare some challenges in certain areas where currently, we are not meeting the expectations of the people. Weare not supplying water as required for twenty-four hours. In certain areas, it is true that for some time, they have not received water but this is not to say that the service has completely shut down. So, on that score, Kafubu Water Supply and Sanitation Companycannot stop billing. It will bill because it is still providing a service to those areas.

Madam Speaker, I would like to encourage the residents who are affected, particularly in residential areas, who feel have not been receiving a service, to write to the utility company. I urge the utility company to do a physical check in those areas. Ifthat is not corrected, the client is at liberty to raise that complaint with NWASCO and it will be able to attend to that complaint. However, to say that the utility company must stop billing the whole constituency or district, I think, we will be asking for a very unfair action because the company is still servicing the said areas.

Madam Speaker, hon. Members may wish to appreciate that this is a sector which, for a long time, has not received much attention in terms of resource allocation. Therefore, we are faced with a series of situations, among them, operating an extremely dilapidated water and sewer network. This is why, the New Dawn Governmentis doing everything possible to put in enough resources and attract Public-Private Partnerships (PPPs) to work with us in terms of repairing the water and sanitation networks. So, I wish to call for thesupport of hon. Members of Parliament in various constituencies.

On that score, Madam Speaker, I wish to say that His Excellency the President has requested that under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), we must try to prioritise issues of water and sanitation. The President is alive to the fact that we have a lot of challenges when it comes to issues of water and sanitation. So, I want to appeal to my brothers and sisters, hon. Members of Parliament in various constituencies, that as we apply the CDF, let us try to prioritise issues of water and sanitation.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, I want to thank hon. Minister, Mr Mposha, for his responses.  Indeed, he came to my constituency although, we did not finish the exercise. Now, the hon. Minister has given us an open cheque in terms of using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). He mentioned that Kafubu Water Supply and Sanitation Company is undertaking some of these repair works, and of course, the major one is removing the collapsed network and replacing it with the new one. Could he just give some comfort to the people of Roan Constituency who have been complaining lamentably by telling them when they can expect a complete exercise taking place in terms of replacement of all the collapsed pipes so that people can live in a sanitary manner.

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, it is unfortunate that the hon. Member for Petauke Central is not here. He would have appreciated the positive questions and conversations we are having, but I am sure he is listening.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Roan for the positive question.

Madam Speaker, let me take advantage of that question to announce that, as the Government, we identified some townships, or may I say some districts, where there are serious sanitation challenges, and we presented our findings to the Council of Ministers on Disasters. We found that some areas in Kabushi in Ndola, in Kwacha in Kitwe, Luanshya as well as in Kaunda Square in Lusaka had sewer problems. So, in view of the findings, we came up with a budget of K86 million, which was approved by the Council of Ministers on Disasters, and the Treasury released this money to cater for the areas I have mentioned. Luanshya is one of the beneficiaries of the K86 million, and what we need to do is just push the utility companies. We have given the utility companies sixty days to ensure that the works are undertaken as emergency works. We realise that we are in the rainy season, and the problems may actually worsen as we know that certain parts of the country have been hit by the cholera outbreak. So, the works are ongoing. We just need to continue pushing the Commercial Utilities (CU) in the mentioned districts to ensure that the works are expedited.

Madam Speaker, as to when the works will be undertaken holistically in Luanshya, I would not want to give a timeframe because we need to raise more resources to cater for the entire district. However, certain portions in the mentioned townships in those districts will be undertaken under the emergency works which we are financing to a tune of K86 million. I want to comfort the people of Luanshya and Roan constituencies that to some extent, the emergency works that are being undertaken should be able to sort out some problems that are being faced as we raise money to deal with the long-term solutions.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The last two questions will be asked by the hon. Member for Kamfinsa and the hon. Member for Chama North. In that order.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, once again, I followed the answers being provided by the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation. I am excited to learn that in Luanshya, he was actually accompanied by the hon. Member. In Kamfinsa, he was alone, but nonetheless, I will still ask my follow-up question.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that there is a challenge of funding, which challenge I think we all appreciate. We agree that there is a need to mobilise resources. I am aware that the Africa Development Bank (AfDB), the World Bank and KFW Development Bank, which a German Financing Bank, have supported the water sector in the past, and some of the projects that are ongoing have been supported by these financial institutions. Is the hon. Minister in a position to inform this august House which partners the Government is engaging to finance the works that need to be done in Luanshya Constituency and Roan Constituency?

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. Kang’ombe, the Member of Parliament for Kamfinsa, for that good question.

Madam Speaker, let me start by stating that I am open to be accompanied by all hon. Members of Parliament as I visit their areas because they are the ones who were elected to represent those areas.

Mr J. E. Bandaentered the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Mposha: It is only fair that they – oh, the hon. Member of Petauke Central is here; welcome my brother – …

Laughter

Mr Mposha: … give us feedback on the challenges. As Members of the Executive, we have been going to various constituencies to see and appreciate the challenges, and provide the solutions. So, it is only fair that the hon. Members of Parliament are also available.

Madam Speaker, I went to Kitwe, and I am grateful that my brother, Hon. Binwell Mpundu, was around. The area we went to see was slightly outside his constituency, but he was with us. I really do not know what happened to the hon. Member for Kamfinsa; we attempted to call him. In Luanshya, both Hon. Simbao and Hon. Chibuye, were in my entourage. I want to put on record that I am grateful that all the four hon. Members of Parliament have actually been engaging me on the problems of water as well as sanitation in Kamfinsa, Nkana, Roan and Luanshya. So, I urge my brothers to engage with us when I visit their areas. They are the ones who will help me know the challenges that the people have. This is our style as the New Dawn Government. We want to work with everybody

Madam Speaker, in terms of which co-operating partners we are working with, as the hon. Member has stated, it is true that we have had a historical relationship and a lot of support from a number of co-operating partners such as KFW Development Bank, the Deutsche Gesellschaft fur Internationale Zusammenarbeit (GIZ), the World Bank and many more have supported the water sector. I may not specifically confine my answer to which co-operating partners we are engaging for the problems in Luanshya, but for the national programme in terms of water supply and sanitation challenges, we are engaging a number of co-operating partners. I want to report that last week, I chaired a high-level engagement meeting with both the International Co-operating Partners (ICPs) and the local ones to see the commitments that are there towards the water sector. Until such a time that we get feedback from them, I think it would be unfair to announce which co-operating partner has given what answer and has been engaged. However, I want to say that we will continue working with the World Bank, KFW Development Bank, GIZ and various co-operating partners.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, public utility institutions have a tendency of reaping where they did not sow. For instance, Kafubu Water&Sewerage Company Ltd charges 40 per cent of the consumption bill. That forty percent goes to sewerage services. With these sewer challenges, is the hon. Minister not thinking of trying to scale down sewerage charges that I think are too exorbitant and are making the cost of water very expensive?

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. Mtayachalo for that good question.

Madam Speaker –

Hon. Minister was disturbed by a bee.

Mr Mposha: Yaa, there is a bee here. I do not know where it is coming from. Probably, it is coming from Hon. Chisanga.

Madam Speaker, the supply of water is not a cheap undertaking and the transportation of sewer from the communities to the sewer ponds, equally is not a cheap undertaking. So, I am not seeing us scaling down the tariffs because, obviously, prices of things are going up and the cost of transporting sewer to the sewer ponds is not getting cheaper. However, I think that what we must be asking for and what we are determined to do is to ensure that with the improved funding and improved commitment from cooperating partners, we improve the service provision. Where we are not supplying water for twenty-four hours, our target is to ensure that we improve and go towards improving the supply of water to twenty-four hours.

Madam, equally, where we have poor sanitation, we must improve the sanitation provision so that people can receive the quality of service they are paying for, but not to scale the tariffs down because doing so would mean that even the little that we are trying to do to rehabilitate the dilapidated networks would not be achieved. We know that our people have for a long time experienced these problems. In fact, these problems were not born last year or after 12^th August, 2021. They were there even before, but we are determined to ensure that we do not just talk about them, but resolve them.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

PLANS TO IMPROVE PRODUCTION OF CROPS IN KALABO DISTRICT

183. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Agriculture:

1. whether the Government has any plans to improve production of the following crops in Kalabo District:

1. cassava;
2. millet;
3. sorghum; and
4. rice; 
5. if so, what the specific plans are; and

1. when the plans will be implemented.

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Mtolo): Madam Speaker, yes, the Government has plans to improve production of cassava, millet, sorghum and rice in Kalabo District.

Madam Speaker, the Government is undertaking measures to promote the production of these crops. The measures being undertaken include promoting technologies such as climate smart agriculture; that is, conservation farming, and use of climate change resilient crops and use of early maturing crop varieties.

Madam Speaker, specifically, regarding cassava, the Government is providing farmers with clean, disease-free cuttings for planting which have been screened by the Zambia Research Agricultural Institute (ZARI). The Government is also linking farmers to value addition companies such as Premier Corn, in Kalumbila, Zonkai in Lusaka, Kaoma and Musika.

Madam Speaker, as for millet, ZARI is developing a bird tolerant variety with bristles. Market and Seeds Access Project Oriented (MASAP), is training farmers on good agricultural practices and improved production. Plans to include millet in the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) are underway in order to promote the growing of millet. This is very important. We are going to put millet on the FISP.

Madam Speaker, measures above also apply to sorghum.

Madam Speaker, with regard to rice, the Government has included rice seed on FISP pack. The Government has also partnered with seed companies such as Zambia Seed Company Limited (ZAMSEED) and AFRISEED who are working with the farmers in the Western Province. In addition, Japan International Cooperation Agency (JICA) and ZARI is promoting seed production in the Western Province, at Namushakende Farm Training Institute (NFTI). So far four high yielding varieties have been produced namely, Zambia KAFACI 1, 2, 3, and 5.

Madam Speaker, as stated above, the plans are being implemented. Before I sit, let me say this to all the hon. Members from the Western Province. We saying that we are going to include rice on FISP, specifically targeting the Western Province so that they can equally also benefit from FISP.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, I have listened very attentively to the hon. Minister’s response.  Cassava is one of the crops that we grow in the district and it is a survival crop. However, I have not heard its inclusion on the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). Many of the farmers in Kalabo are small-scale famers. They rely much on FISP. Is there any programme connected to cassava on FISP?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, as we get to the Comprehensive Agricultural Support Programme (CASP), we are looking at improving tree crops and other root crops such as cassava. However, I must indicate that the current plans on FISP have not included cassava, but sorghum, millet and rice. So, we will take it up and see how best we can manage cassava under the FISP.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, I also want to get something about the interaction of the Government or the collaboration with the Zambia National Farmers Union (ZNFU) branch. How collaborative is the ministry with the ZNFU. We have a branch that represents the local farmers. So, how collaborative is the Government with ZNFU?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. Miyutu for that.

Madam Speaker, we exist as a ministry for the farmers of Zambian. Therefore, we collaborate very seriously with the Zambia National Farmers Union (ZNFU). If the collaboration is questionable at a lower level, it is something we can look at. However, I can assure the hon. Member that we collaborate with ZNFU very well and very frequently.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chisanga (Lukashya): Madam Speaker, my question is a very short question. I just want to find out if the Government has started receiving feedback from the beneficiaries of these crops, especially cassava. I ask this question because there are so many questions regarding the outbreak of the brown streak on cassava.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, we are very aware,as the Government, that there is a serious disease outbreak on the cassava crop. I assure the hon. Member for Lukashya Parliamentary Constituency that officers are busy trying to sensitise farmersin areas where cassava is grown and where this outbreak has been experienced. It is an extremely dangerous disease. You harvest absolutely nothing as it rots the crop. Therefore, we are looking at it seriously.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam First Deputy Speaker:Hon. Member for Lumezi, I am sure you were not in the House. There was a ruling that we would not permit anymore points of order today for the sake of progress.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, the quorum in the House has collapsed.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, if the quorum has collapsed the Clerks at the Table will give me a signal and we will act accordingly.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, you should forgive these easterners.

Mr Munir Zulu: Ah!

Laughter

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Agriculture why we are allowing the so-called hybrid or genetically modified organisms (GMOs) type of seeds to continue circulating in our country. I am so concerned and I ask this question because there is a kind of maize we used to eat called, inyanje or mapopwe as my closest friend used to call it, she is Tonga. The hon. Minister knows the kind of maize I am talking about.

Madam Speaker, we have lost the real value of the crop that our forefathers gave to us. This cassava stem they are taking to Luapula and other parts of the country keeps on getting diseases, and this never used to happen. So, I would like to find out what the ministry is doing to revert to our original seeds. The new seeds come with diseases and people are forced to buy chemicals, when this never used to happen.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, in simple terms, what Hon. Rev. Katuta is talking about is, first, what is termed as local breeds such as local maize. The proper term you could use is open-pollinated maize, which is different from hybrid maize. So, if you go to Zamseed Company Limited for example, you are likely to buy a high-yield hybrid type of seed. Whereas, if you remember the type of seeds our traditional parents used to keep that they would plant over and over. That is the open-pollinated type of seed.

You will be happy to note, Madam Speaker, that of late the debate concerning open-pollinated and hybrid seed varieties is flourishing. There are a couple of companies, even here in Zambia, such as Afriseed for example, who are actually selling open-pollinated seeds. Now, the only drawback of the open-pollinated seed is that it is very low in productivity. You cannot compare open-pollinated seeds to hybrid seeds. That is why hybrid seeds have been adopted so that you get higher yields per area planted. However, they are susceptible to floods, dry spells and certain diseases, yet you cannot compare the two in terms of high yield potential.

So, Madam Speaker, what seeds and cuttings are being developed for the cassava crop are those that will be much more high yielding than the local breed. However, if you want the local varieties, now they are available commercially which you can buy and continue planting for at least three to five years.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

I have been advised that we do not have a quorum in the House.

Business was suspended from 1205 hours until 1206 hours.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We now have a quorum.

Before business was suspended, the hon. Minister of Agriculture had finished responding to a supplementary question raised by hon. Member of Parliament for Chienge. I will take two more questions.

Mr Ngowani (Mpongwe): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that millet, sorghum and rice would be included in the Farmer Inputs Support Programme (FISP). How many bags of fertiliser will come with these crops?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I wish I could come with a ministerial statement when we are completely ready. However, I would assume that the package would still consist the same six bags.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chewe (Lubansenshi): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving the good people of Lubansenshi Constituency an opportunity to ask the hon. Minister of Agriculture a question. The question from Kalabo is equally important to the good people of Lubansenshi.

Madam Speaker, are there any plans to set up processing plants to ensure that what the good people of Kalabo produce, starting from millet, cassava, and rice, has markets.

If so, should we expect the Government to set up the processing plants or they will depend on the private sector? If it is the private sector, is the hon. Minister able to indicate to this honourable House which private entities we expect to set up processing plants, so that the people of Kalabo can be guaranteed markets, and be encouraged to produce these crops?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I honestly wish that the hon. Member had submitted a question regarding the points he has raised because I did not come with answers on processing plants. I came with very specific answers to the question raised about increasing crop production in Kalabo District.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

_______

MOTIONS

MOTION OF THANKS

(Debate resumed)

Mr Simunji (Nalikwanda): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me the chance to continue from where I left off yesterday. I am very happy that the Leader of the Opposition is here today because yesterday, when I was speaking, he was not.

Madam Speaker, I was so disappointed with his debate where he was saying, –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, Hon. Members! 

Hon. Member on the Floor, please, can we concentrate on the Address by the President.

Mr Simunji: Madam Speaker, some people have been castigating this report that it does not contain anything. If you look at this report, there are a lot of issues which are contained in it. The President stated that for the investigative wings, the leadership and management will be reorganised. I agree with this because we need a very good drive on corruption.

Madam Speaker, I will take you back, before 2021, this country, the people who were running it over-borrowed money from the commercial market; more than US$13.5 billion. If you translate it into Kwacha, it is more than K270 billion. When do we pay back this money? The people who borrowed this money are on your left. So, we need the investigative wings to be supported. We need to employ people who have the experience and education. We also need to give them support in terms of machinery, the tools, so that they are able to uproot the corruption that was done. 

Interruptions

Mr Simunji: We need to support the investigative wings, whether we like it or not

Interjection

Mr Simunji: Whether it is past, present or future. However, for now, I will concentrate on the past because we have the records. Whether we like it or not, there is a US$13.5 billion which we are supposed to pay, including the interest part of the loans. That is why the exchange rate is going down. We are paying interest to our creditors.

Interruptions

Mr Simunji: So, for this, we need to support the drive against corruption so that we know who benefited from the huge sums of money which were borrowed.

Madam Speaker, the President stated that we need proper and quality education. There is no hon. Members of Parliament on your left who will tell me that there are no teachers –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, do not involve other hon. Members into your debate.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members on my left!

Hon. Member, do not involve other hon. Members into your debate. Direct the debate at me, when you debate, and not other hon. Members.

Mr Simunji: Madam Speaker, on education, amongst all the hon. Members who are here, let anyone stand and mention a school where there are no teachers. At the time we took over the Government, the teacher/pupil ratio was very high. Today, actually, every school has enough teachers.

Interruptions

Mr Simunji: Madam Speaker, yes. Go anywhere. Go to Nalikwanda.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, just continue with your debate. Do not listen to the running commentaries. Just continue with your debate.

Mr Simunji: Madam Speaker, if you go to Nalikwanda today, I am a very happy hon. Member of Parliament, all my schools have teachers.

Madam Speaker, in addition, there is an instruction from the Government that by the end of this year, no child shall be seating on the floor, meaning that decentralisation is working. The money which has been budgeted for through the Constitutional Development Fund (CDF), as soon as we start receiving it, hon. Members of Parliament are supposed to start the procurement of desks for their schools so that our children, who have been sitting on the floor from way back, can sit properly and study very well. That is what quality education is. How can a pupil who is coming from home for the first time go and sit on the floor and concentrate on what the teacher is saying? It is impossible. For now, we are saying there is quality education.

Madam Speaker, with the same decentralisation, through the CDF, we are allowed to see where infrastructure is not enough in our schools. Clinics are not enough in our constituencies. We are supposed to construct classrooms for our pupils. Currently, because of the free education, if you go to any school, the classrooms are overflowing. We removed the user fees, so there are a lot of pupils in schools. As a result, there is need to build more classrooms. That is what quality education is. With that, I can say that this Government has put education at a higher level because it is an equaliser.

Madam Speaker, let me not bore you more because I think what I have said is enough.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Laughter 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member you are not boring me. You are debating.

Laughter

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me an opportunity to comment on the speech that was delivered to this august House on the progress that has been made in the application of national values and principles. I want to confine myself to three issues namely, sustainable development, good governance as well as patriotism.

Madam Speaker, let me start with sustainable development. It is not a secret that the New Dawn Government has made strides in ensuring that resources are equitably shared to all communities in as far as ensuing that developmental deficiencies are attended to. The enhanced Constituency Development Fund (CDF) allocation is an attempt to ensure that power is given to the people to decide their developmental destiny.

Madam Speaker, here comes the challenge which I want to bring to this august House. How many times have we lamented over the glitches surrounding the effective implementation of the CDF? We expect somebody placed with the responsibility to attend to these grey areas to be active. Alas, we hear the opposite being considered.

Madam Speaker, today, our hon. Colleagues on your right are considering bringing a Motion or rather an amendment Bill into this august House to amend the CDF Act. What do we hear? They want to bring District Commissions (DCs) into the picture. If you ask all hon. Members on your right, they do not agree because DCs are problematic. They are disturbing development in our constituencies. So, when you bring them into the CDF Act, instead of attending to problems that have been identified in the implementation of the CDF, they want to create more problems mwabashaniimweba United Party for National Development (UPND)? Can you stop that!

Laughter

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Nkana, we have not yet seen that amendment Bill. So, it is very difficult for people to comment. You are even bringing in the issues of District Commissions (DCs). It is advisable that you wait for that Bill so that you have correct information to talk about DCs and other people and issues involved in the amendment Bill.   

Mr B. Mpundu:Madam Speaker, people ought to do the right thing. When we complain about certain things that are not happening, we give an opportunity to the people in charge to do the right thing. The reality on the ground is that the CDF is a good strategy used to take development to the people. We should confine ourselves to addressing issues that have impeded the effective implementation of the CDF as opposed to trying things that are going to make it difficult to implement it.

Madam Speaker, the other issue is good governance and I will comment on corruption. Corruption is a cancer that has deprived our people of the needed resources to attend to their challenges. Every well-meaning Zambian must support the crusade against corruption. I want to agree with the President that corruption must be fought in both acts that were done in the past, now, and in future.

Madam Speaker, here is where I have a problem. We have unfortunately, been entertained by pettiness and alarming statements. People build names over time. They spend money and time to build names. So, before one alleges that Binwell is corrupt, one must first substantiate that they have enough evidence. When someone alleges that I have committed a crime in the media, they would have destroyed a name that they would never help to rebuild. My appeal is that there must be no sensationalism in the issues of corruption. Some of the petty pursuits we are seeing in the name of corruption do not even make sense.

Madam Speaker, there is a certain gentleman who has served this country for years. Someone cannot tell me that it is fallacy or it is unheard-off for someone who has served this country for years to build flats. It is not strange for a former Head of State to have property, neither is it strange for relatives of a Head of State to build properties. Let us concentrate on issues.

Interruptions

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, you are aware that there are revelations that have been made by the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) here. Those are real issues that required investigations. For example, issues regarding Rockcliffe Trading, the cooked fertiliser that was supplied to the Southern Province, and the scandal that would have happened in the Ministry of Health. We have never heard anything about all those things, yet those are the real issues that the ACC must be confining to and not pettiness. In this country, anyone who is building must be alleged to have been involved in corruption. It is unheard-of. Imwelekeniifyo! Can you stop that!

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Meaning what, hon. Member?

Mr B. Mpundu:This means thatthey must stop the pettiness in the issue of fighting corruption. We want seriousness. That is why I have been on record saying that corruption is a cancer that all of us must join hands to fight and not pettiness.

Madam Speaker, finally, I will talk about patriotism. Patriotism simply entails dying a little for your country. I want to agree with the President’s call that each one of us is called to be patriotic to Zambia. Patriotism, in my thinking, requires that all of us either elected, appointed, or employed must do our very best in executing the mandate given to us. Even if Jesus Christ became the President of Zambia, he still needs a team. The President needs a team …

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker:Order, Hon. Member.

Let us avoid issues of the Bible, please.

Mr B. Mpundu: The President needs a team to help him execute his mandate. He needs people who are dedicated. That is what patriotism means. Some of the problems we are observing, such as the failures in the CDF are because of the people who are not patriotic. We do not expect the President to go round attending to issues of the CDF because there are people who are mandated to do that.

Madam Speaker, we have been advised to seek audience with some of the hon. Ministers over the issue we are facing in our constituencies. We have tried to do that but alas, we have come back without anything because they are not interested in helping us to resolve our issues. That is why I am saying that I feel sorry that the President seems to be singing from one hymn book, whereas, his Lieutenants seem to be singing from a different hymn book.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr B. Mpundu: The Man needs to be supported. Aba abekeleuku need to be serious and help the President.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker:Order!hon. Member.

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, what I mean is that the people seated on your right need to be serious in helping the President execute his mandate. I personally think that he is very committed, but he does not just have a team to support him. Some of the people he has appointed do not know what they are doing. It is either they are inexperienced or are inefficient in the way they are handling the assignment given to them …

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker:Order, hon. Member!

Let us avoid using that tone, which is a bit provoking. We are not supposed to be debating ourselves in that manner. If we can, please, can we …

Mr B. Mpunduengaged other hon. Members.

Madam First Deputy Speaker:Order, hon. Member. Resume your seat, hon. Member.

I am trying to guide you, hon. Member, but you are busy engaging other hon. Members of Parliament. I wonder whether you are getting my guide. Please, let us follow the rules. Like I indicated, we use English in here. If you use another language, you will have to translate it immediately. Let us avoid debating ourselves. Let us not use a tone that is a bit provoking. Hon. Member, you may continue.

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, the President came to report on the Progress made in the Application of National Values and Principles and I personally, think we all have a duty to support the President in gaining a score or scoring on the issues of principles and values. My call to all of us is that we have a role to play. We have a duty to be patriotic to our country in doing exactly what it is that we are mandated to do. Some of these complaints we are having in our communities could not have been if we had committed people, who would want to help this country progress.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity you have given the people of Mwinilunga to add a voice to the President’s Speech on the Progress made in the Application of National Values and Principles.

Madam Speaker, it is gratifying to note that the President reported to this House that the Government has intensified the implementation of the National Alcohol Policy in our quest to address alcohol and substance abuse and figures were given. In 2022, a total of 523,973 people were sensitised. In 2021, 217,234 people were sensitised. Rehabilitation services were also offered. In 2021 and 2022, a total of 810 and 1,212 people were rehabilitated, respectively. This is no mean achievement. Rather, it is progress indeed, that has been made by the Government. It is therefore, important to refer to the past so that we know where we are going.

Madam Speaker, on page 8 of the speech, the President, has implored Zambians, especially those who are involved in gainful activities to pay the taxes. A country’s total income is related to the commitment of its citizens who are in gainful activities. It is important for all of us to be morally and ethically correct in so far as paying taxes is concerned. By doing so, we are promoting social justice. Therefore, the point the President came to make here cannot be overemphasised.

Madam Speaker, on page 9, the President talked about stamping out cadreism. Indeed, this has been done, and I think it has been noted by all Zambians that the New Dawn Government’s first act was to ensure that cadreism that was perpetrated by the Patriotic Front (PF) is stamped out. No more cadreism godfathers. This country will not allow that. We, the people of Zambia, would never ever associate ourselves with godfathers of cadreism. We do not want to have parallel Governments; one that is voted for by the people and one that is created by a ruling party to perpetuate its stay in the Government. That, we do not want. We want a government of the people by the people themselves. So, no cadreism.

If you promoted cadreism when you were ruling, we will never give you chance to rule this country again.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Samakayi:This Government is responsible. It will repeal and replace the Public Order Act. This piece of legislation has not helped this country, especially to grow the democracy that we cherish. Therefore, it is good for this Government to repeal and replace the Public Order Act. The PF Government thrived on this Act but it did not help it to win the 2021 Elections. So, it is a useless Act. It is moribund; it must be replaced.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Samakayi: Hear where?

Laughter

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, I move on to the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). If there is anything that has happened for me that is better than all the things we have done, it is answering the call of the people. The people, in 1986 through the Mwanakatwe Constitutional Review Commission, petitioned this commission to allow for decentralisation through devolution, and President Mwanawasa put a policy in place, and I think it has now come to fruition. The most important thing for me is not just the figure, K28.3 million. There is something more behind the figure K28.3 million; it is the respect that this Government has for the people of Zambia.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Samakayi: This Government has placed responsibility on the people of Zambia to be responsible for their own development, and that is what the people of Zambia have wanted all these years. So, there is no part of Zambia that will say it has been left out. Members of the PF Government were saying they were developing this country without leaving any one behind. They left us behind.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Samakayi: In fact, they even left themselves behind. That is why they are complaining of roads and bridges. There was no development even in the areas they purported to support.

Madam Speaker, this is a very good act on the part of the New Dawn Government. This is good governance because there is participation of everyone in the development of our country.

Madam Speaker, my colleague talked about the amendment to the Constituency Development Act that will be brought.

Hon. Members of Parliament from the Opposition, you are frustrating the CDF, and if you frustrate the CDF –

Interruptions

Mr Kapyanga: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Samakayi: Yes! Some of you are frustrating the CDF.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Samakayi: Some of you are even saying –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members.

The hon. Member on the Floor said something which was not clear. I do not know whether all the hon. Members from the Opposition are frustrating the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) especially that we have been hearing of hon. Members like Kanchibiya and other constituencies that are doing fine. I really do not know whether all the hon. Members are frustrating the programme.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members.

Hon. Member on the Floor, please be very specific and correct with what you are saying so that people who are listening get the correct information.

May the hon. Member continue.

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, I said ‘some’. Even the President said it here; he said that about thirty constituencies were not doing very well. I have been on television and I have received calls from constituencies.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members. It is now clear that the hon. Member on the Floor said ‘some’. He did not say all the hon. Members.

Mr Jamba: Mpika is one of them.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We have to make progress.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, why is Hon. Jamba mentioning my name?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I did not permit you to speak, hon. Member for Mpika.

Can we have order.

Hon. Members on my right, let us not debate while seated. There is only one person who has been given the Floor to debate. So, whoever is debating while seated is out of order. Let us refrain from that.

Hon. Member for Mwinilunga, may you please continue. You have the Floor.

Hon. Members: His time is up.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We move on, hon. Member for Chasefu.

Mr Nyambose (Chasefu): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving the special of Chasefu an opportunity to add a word to the debate or to speak to the speech delivered by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia on the Progress Made on the Application of the National Values and Principles.

Madam Speaker, I will start by saying that society does not sleep. Everyone is watching what is happening in this Parliament. The community is watching our conduct. A very important Motion of looking at what the President delivered to this House should be taken seriously and I stand to do that. Amongst the six national values and principles, I will tease out about two or three that I will speak to. One of them that is so dear to my heart is morality and ethics. Then I will also talk about human dignity, social justice, equity and non-discrimination.

Madam Speaker, I will speak to the way the country has been progressing in terms of redistribution of resources to the community. I will speak about the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), which is a game changer, not only for us who are seated here but also for the people out there. It is this, which we should take advantage of to see how we can enhance and ensure that we move in tandem with the thinking of the President. Here is a leader who wants to see that every Zambia benefits from the resources of the nation.

Madam Speaker, I was pleased to sit here and listen to the President deliver a speech that motivated every Zambian. We have to do justice to this nation by ensuring that we enhance the administration of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

Madam Speaker, the other thing that I want to talk about is morality and ethics. Is our conduct speaking to the morals and uprightness of the society of Zambia?We, as politicians are the danger to this society or country. We are here. We are a danger because we have taken politics as an occupation and not as a service to the people. So, we do not even account for ourselves on what we do. We think that as long as we have resources, we will come back to the House, but are we serving the people out there?

Madam Speaker, allow me to go ahead and speak to this issue which is so dear to my heart; the issue of corruption. The President came here and stated that there would be no sacred cows in the fight against corruption. I get moved and excited. What I want are convictions. I will be the first person to demonstrate here if one of us here, previous or current, is jailed.

Laughter

Mr Nyambose: Madam Speaker, we cannot continue hiding under the veil of a politician just because we are politicians. When you are questioned, you start shivering and go to social media and say I have been summoned to appear before the investigative wings. If you have been summoned, does it mean you are convicted?

Hon. UPND Members: No!

Mr Nyambose: Go and show yourself.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyambose: Madam Speaker, we must have a beginning. Right now, the Lundazi/Chama Road is not worked on. Chasefu Constituency has no boarding school because of corruption. Corruption takes away from the poor. It takes to the few of us who are in these privileged positions. We should not continue on that path. I support the President in saying that those who transgressed previously and those doing it now should answer for their actions.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyambose: Madam Speaker, let the President start. He said that within ninety days, there should be convictions. The Economic and Financial Crimes Court should be operationalised so that we see those who are guilty. Let us go and parade and, clean ourselves. If we did not do anything, it will be said. Why do we want to hide under this veil of being politicians and say it is political persecution when we are asked to account for certain things.

Madam Speaker, just as my colleague said, there are people who are said to have committed corrupt offences and nobody speaks for them. However, when it comes to us politicians, we want to cry foul. Let us go and answer for ourselves.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyambose: Madam Speaker, if we do not do that, we shall not deter those who are committing offences now. We have to go and account. My appeal to the President is that if such people are here, he must come and pick them up.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyambose: Madam Speaker, we should go and clear names, one by one so that the money spared from corruption can be used to work on the Lundazi/Chama Road. The money saved from corruption can buy cheap fertiliser. Corruption has become endemic in this country. Even in the distribution of fertiliser, instead of a poor person getting the fertiliser, it is going to a few privileged people. The people who are intended to get this fertiliser are not getting it. The Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) and the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC) should come to our constituencies and districts so that we streamline these programmes and enable Zambians to benefit.

Madam Speaker, the President motivates me. I like him. We should all support him so that he can bring sanity to this country.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyambose: Madam Speaker, this sanitiser (showing a bottle to the House), should be used to sanitiser those who are here so that we clean and develop this country.

I submit, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Allow me to call the only lady on the list, the hon. Member for Lundazi.

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Lundazi the chance to add to the debate on the speech made by the President on the Progress Made in the Application of the National Values and Principles.

Madam Speaker, firstly, I must state that as woman, coming to the House was not easy for me. If there are no laws and no gender eye, there will be no progress made in the values.

Rev. Katuta: Hear, hear!

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, I ask the dear President, when he comes next time, to give a report that the Gender Commission and our Ministry of Gender have been brought back.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, we are not going to survive as women for as long as there is no law to protect us, and no ministry to represent us. That one, I feel, was a loss. We did not make any progress on issues of gender equality. I submit.

Madam Speaker, I want to talk about the issue of morality and ethics. Whilst my brother was perpetuating the issue of corruption, the people who are immoral are in here. The people who are immoral are those who are abusing our children. The people who are immoral are those ensuring that they rape our girls. The people who are immoral are those who are sodomising our boy children.

Rev. Katuta: Hear, hear!

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, when we look at the progress made in this speech by the President, sensitisation is not enough. We understand the law has been passed in the Children’s Code Act, but we have an issue with its implementation. It is easy to make laws. As lawmakers, we have done quite a lot. We have even passed the Children’s Code Bill. However, we have a challenge with the implementers and the people who monitor those who do the implementation.

Madam Speaker, it is painful to see a boy child being sodomised and an eighty-three year woman being gang raped. You find that our girl children are suffering. There are two ways in which rape does harm to an individual. The first one can be physical, which doctors can heal. They can suture or whatever it is they can do. However, there is the aspect of a mental challenge which our children live with. Our children are moving with wounds. They are crying all the time. As a female hon. Member of Parliament, I say woe to those who take our children for a ride; the teachers who take our children and rape them; our doctors or nurses who do not report a child who has been raped.

Madam Speaker, our closed society is an issue that we need to continuously speak to. There are issues of protecting our marriages when our children are being raped in our homes and protecting big names just because they have positions and yet they are raping our children in our homes. They are raping the children in your home, but you are not reporting them and that is why the statistics are very few.

Madam Speaker, as a mother and grandmother, I want to ensure that Chatowa and Yamikani have a safe place to live. However, Zambia is getting worse.

Madam Speaker, I want to –

Hon. Members: Question!

Ms Nyirenda: Yes, statistics are there. There are 10,342 reported cases of girls who have been raped. That is the data which is prevailing at the moment. Those are reported cases. So, how many cases have not been reported in Lundazi, my constituency?

Madam Speaker, the President talked about the issue of unity and us working together. However, what is obtaining to some of us in our constituencies is terrible. This is where an hon. Minister can make a trip to Lundazi and fails to deliver an incubator to a co-operative just because upon arrival, he learns that that co-operative consists of Patriotic Front (PF) members. He even turns back after using the tax payers’ money. Where is morality? How can one use taxpayers’ money like that? When he arrives in Lundazi, he fails to deliver an incubator just because he hears that a co-operative which is about to benefit consists of PF members. Where is morality?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Nyirenda: The President was here to talk about us being a united force. How are we going to united if today, we are saying, “This one is PF”?

Interruptions

Ms Nyirenda: If it is about the scores that they had, some of us were not even in the party at the time. So, who are they trying to fight with? This issue of “One Zambia, One Nation” should really come to reality.

Madam Speaker, it is painful that we are only going to depend on boreholes which are being drilled by donors. We have situations where the hon. Minister has announced on the Floor of the House that Lundazi is supposed to get fifty-four boreholes but when we go to his office, he only gives us those which are donor-funded.  Are we going to live on donor-funded things only?

Interruptions

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, where is morality? The President talked about us working together. It is important that we should really be the first ones to show how to work together.

Madam Speaker, I am not going sing praises and worship here just to get my vehicle for the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). I am not going to do that. I was fully elected as hon. Member of Parliament for Lundazi Constituency and I deserve to get my vehicle for CDF. They are not going to parade those men who are wagging their tails towards the hon. Minister. No!

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Mposha: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, I make a demand. The people of Lundazi deserve to get their vehicle.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member on the Floor!

Mr Mposha: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Where are the tails?

Mr Munsanje: Which man has a tail here?

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Lundazi, there is something you said. You mentioned tails. Is it possible you withdraw that word? There is no human being with a tail.

Ms Nyirenda: Yes, Madam Speaker, for the sake of the respect I seriously have for you, I withdraw. However, I want to tell off these men, with moustaches and bold heads because they go before the hon. Minister. They are the ones who are getting the vehicles first.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, Hon. Member for Lundazi!

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Leader of Opposition, order!

Order, hon. Members!

Hon. Member for Lundazi, we are all hon. Members of Parliament in this House. So, we should show respect to all the hon. Members in this House. You are all one and you are all hon. Members of Parliament. If you do not respect yourselves in this House, how will the people out there respect you? Please, it is very important that we respect all the hon. Members in this House.

We move on. The hon. Member for Katuba.

Hon. PF Members: Did she finish?

Interruptions

Mr Nkulukusa (Katuba): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to give a few comments on the speech that the President presented, on the progress made in the application of things such as the National Values, Morality and Ethics.

Madam Speaker, as I speak, I just want to give the background by stating that –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

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The House adjourned at 1256 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 7^thMarch, 2023.

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