Debates- Tuesday, 10th July, 2012

DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FIRST SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, 10th July, 2012

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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OATH OF ALLEGIANCE

The following Members took and subscribed the Oath of Allegiance:

Howard John Sikwela

Samson January Zimba

Howard Kunda

Mrs Masebo took her ministerial seat.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!

After the excitement, I have a statement to make.

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

EYE SCREENING FOR HON. MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT AND STAFF

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that Vision Care Appassamy Eye Hospital and Vision Care Opticians, an eye specialist institution of Lusaka, will be conducting a free comprehensive eye screening exercise for hon. Members of Parliament and staff from Wednesday, 11th July to Friday, 13th July, 2012.

The screening exercise will be held in Committee Room No. 5 from 0900 hours to 1500 hours on each day. The services to be offered include the following:

(a) cataract screening;

(b) eye growth screening;

(d) refractive error;

(e) high blood pressure monitoring;

(f) weight monitoring or body mass index;

Hon. Opposition Member: GBM!

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

(g) eye care presentation;

(h) eye care counselling; and

(i) any eye related problem.
Hon. Members are encouraged to find time to have their eyes checked.

Thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

UPGRADING OF BASIC SCHOOLS TO HIGH SCHOOLS IN PEMBA

436. Mrs Mazoka (Pemba) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education whether the Government had any immediate plans to upgrade the following basic schools, in Pemba Parliamentary Constituency, to high schools:

(a) Mayasanino;

(b) Habbanyuka;

(d) Kauba;

(e) Pemba; and

(f) Chilundu

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to upgrade the Mayasanino, Habbanyuka, Hamabboonka, Kauba, Pemba and Chilundu Basic schools, in Pemba Parliamentary Constituency, to high schools because the position of the new Government is to phase out basic education and re-introduce the primary and secondary education system.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Mazoka: Mr Speaker, does the hon. Minister know that, in the entire Pemba Constituency, there is only one high school?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, of course, I am aware that there is only one high school in Pemba. In fact, I was in Pemba Constituency on Tuesday, last week, just to assess the facts on the ground. I agree with the hon. Member on the need to put up additional infrastructure. However, I suppose that what the hon. Member should have been talking about, as in the question she asked last week, is the additional infrastructure at Ndondi High School. Otherwise, as I stated in my answer, the Government’s position is to phase out the basic education system for reasons that are very well-known by the hon. Members of Parliament in this House.

Sir, furthermore, when we look at Pemba Constituency, there is Batoka High School, which is undergoing construction. Therefore, the people that are in the Moyo Chiefdom or Hamabboonka area can easily access Batoka High School because it is going to be a boarding school. The distance from the boma to Ndondi High School is about 25 km. While there are, of course, construction works going on at Ndondi High School, we, as Government, recognise that there is a need to consider putting up additional infrastructure.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, now that the Government is phasing out basic schools and does not believe in high schools, which schools is it going to upgrade to secondary schools since Pemba is not only a constituency, but also a district?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, out of the listed schools, the decision to transform some into junior secondary schools has to be made at provincial education level because it is at this level that these catchment areas are very well known. Otherwise, what I saw in Pemba is that, at least, there is a need to provide additional infrastructure at Ndondi High School. In terms of phasing out of basic education, that decision will be made by the provincial leadership.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, my question has been overtaken by events.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, arising from the answer given by the hon. Minister that he would refer children from Moyo Chiefdom, which is in Pemba Constituency, to Batoka High School, which is in Choma Constituency, is he aware that the said Batoka High School, which is not yet operational, in terms of capacity and infrastructure, is not capable of absorbing more children from outside besides those where it is situated?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, probably, it is my colleague who is not aware. Recently, just as I visited Pemba, I also went to Choma and made an assessment of the educational needs there. I am aware that Choma has got a challenge in terms of infrastructure, especially that it is going to be a provincial headquarters. What the hon. Member should recognise is that the catchment area in Moyo, where Hamabboonka is, I do not think, has so many pupils in basic schools that Batoka High School, which is undergoing construction, can fail to absorb them. Like I said earlier on, if additional infrastructure is put up at Ndondi High School, pupils from Hamabbonka could also be going there. So, of course, that is going to lessen the pressure at the Batoka High School. Actually, the hon. Member for Choma Central should be talking about additional infrastructure in Choma, given that it is going to be a provincial headquarters soon.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has acknowledged that, at the moment, there is no programme that has been put in place to upgrade these basic schools into secondary schools, but pupils need to learn. Therefore, I would like know how far the Government has gone regarding this issue.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, when we had provincial indabas in all the ten provinces, the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education requested the provincial leadership to provide information about the schools that are supposed to be phased out. The hon. Member should recognise that the phasing out of these schools goes with additional investment. We have requested all the provincial education officers, across this country, to provide us with the information on this transformation so that the budgetary allocation is made in the 2013 Budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Habeenzu (Chikankata): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister visited Pemba and, on his own, discovered that there should be additional infrastructure put up at Ndondi High School. Is he, therefore, considering upgrading Ndondi High School to a secondary school?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, at Ndondi, there is some construction which is going on, through community mode. Therefore, a secondary school is being constructed. Just like the hon. Minister of Education, Science and Vocational Training and Early Education had said earlier on, what we should be thinking about is whether to continue constructing high schools through community mode or contractor mode.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Belemu (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, from the various answers that the hon. Minister has given, is it not high time that the Government gave us its Infrastructure Development Plan in the education sector as opposed to waiting for the so-called indabas?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, I totally agree with what the hon. Member has said. It is high time we provided the Infrastructure Development Plan to the hon. Members of Parliament. However, I am assuring this House that it will be given to the hon. Members before they go back to their constituencies at the end of this sitting of Parliament.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

PROCUREMENT AND DELIVERY OF DESKS IN MULOBEZI

437. Mr Sililo (Mulobezi) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education when the Government would procure and deliver desks to the following schools in Mulobezi District:

(a) Sichili High;

(b) Mulobezi Basic;

(d) Machile Basic;

(e) Mulauli Basic; and

(f) Kamenyani Basic.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the Government intends to procure and deliver desks to the following schools in the first quarter of 2013:

School No. of Desks

Sichili High 450

Mulobezi 300

Bwina Basic 150

Machile Basic 170

Mulauli Basic 60

Kamenyani Basic 90

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, we would like to know when the Government will procure the desks because we did not get it in the answer.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, I said that the delivery of these desks will be in the first quarter of 2013, although the procurement process will begin this year.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, I wanted to find out the number of desks that are currently in the schools.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, we will only be able to provide those statistics when the hon. Member puts that as a question.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, I went to the schools in these places and discovered that they have no desks. What has delayed the distribution of even a few desks to the schools since the ministry has been providing desks to many other schools in the province?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, I would not know the exact reason the schools have not been given the desks, that is if they have not been given. However, I suppose if the hon. Member went to the respective District Education Board Secretary’s (DEBS) Office, he would find out why the schools have not been given desks. As far as the Government is concerned, we are trying our best to ensure the procurement of the desks and that they are sent to the province.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister assuring us that the desks will be delivered to the schools at Government cost or through the community contributions as had been done previously?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the last time I discussed the issue of desks, I said that it was requested that the districts provide the amount of funds required to transport the desks that were at the DEBS offices to schools to the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education . Therefore, these desks will also be distributed at the expense of the Government.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, the last time the hon. Minister answered a question on the issue of desks, he assured this House that there were a lot of desks available for schools. When this question came up, he should have counter checked on the reason those many desks were not delivered to Mulobezi. However, if they were there, why were they not delivered as per the information that he gave to the House earlier?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, maybe, Hon. Muntanga misquoted me because I did not mention that there were many desks. At that time, a specific question was raised relating to Kalabo and the answer that I gave was also specific to Kalabo. As regards the districts that do not have desks, they will have to wait for the procurement of the desks by the Government after which I am sure they will receive them.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Professor Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education enlighten the House …

Ms Lubezhi: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education in order to compel this House to ask the DEBS Office for answers when that specific question was put to him?

Mr Speaker: Well, the hon. Minister should respond to that specific question, which he may wish to address as he debates.

Professor Lungwangwa: … on the basis of the distribution of desks to the various schools.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, I think Hon. Professor Lungwangwa, who has also been in the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, is aware of this issue.

Laughter

Mr Mabumba: However, for the purpose of providing this information to the other hon. Members of Parliament, I will give the answer. In fact, as we are concluding the Annual Work Plan, we will ask the various Provincial Education Officers to sit with the respective DEBS offices to make an assessment of both double seater and single-seater desks that are required in their respective provinces. Once that has been done, the information will be provided to the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education Headquarters which will then compile the national requirement of desks. After the desks are procured, they will, then, be distributed to the respective provinces.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

KAWAMBWA/MPOROKOSO ROAD FEASIBILITY STUDY

438. Mr Chitotela (Pambashe) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication when feasibility studies on the construction of the Kawambwa/Mporokoso Road would begin.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Dr Mwali): Mr Speaker, an expression of interest (EOI) for the shortlisting of eligible consultants has been finalised. The services for the studies on the construction of the Kawambwa/Mporokoso Road are to commence by the end of this year.

Mr Speaker, to this effect, K3.93 billion has been included in the 2012 Road Sector Annual Work Plan (RSAWP) for this project. In the interim, the Road Development Agency (RDA) is undertaking force account works from Kawambwa to Kalungwishi Bridge at an estimated cost of K1.2 billion.

Mr Speaker, the scope of works includes, but is not limited to the following:

(a) spot gravelling;

(b) light grading; and

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, I would also like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the works will be extended to Mporokoso from the Kalungwishi River.

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, the works that we have planned for are the ones that will go up to Kalungwishi Bridge.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

MITETE’S DISTRICT STATUS

439. Mr Mutelo asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing when Mitete, in Lukulu West Parliamentary Constituency, would be accorded district status.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and House (Mr Tembo): Mr Speaker, if my memory serves me right, we have answered a similar question before. However, for the benefit of the hon. Member of Parliament, I wish to inform the august House that my ministry is not in a position to know when Mitete will be accorded district status because the authority to establish a district is vested in the Head of State, pursuant to the provisions in the Provincial and District Boundaries Act Cap. 286 of the Laws of Zambia. The Head of State declares an area a district to enhance the efficient and effective administration and delivery of social services to the people within that particular area.

Mr Speaker, one of the headlines in today’s Zambia Daily Mail newspaper reads “Sata Creates More Districts”. I wish to confirm, therefore, that all the powers to create districts are vested in the Head of State. This is in line with the campaign promise to decentralise Government operations for the effective and efficient delivery of services.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, the Head of State promised that six new districts would be created in the Western Province. When will this happen? I would also like to find out whether Mitete is also one of the districts referred to in today’s Zambia Daily Mail newspaper.

Laughter

Mr Tembo: Mr Speaker, only two districts have been created and these are Rufunsa and Shibuyunji.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Deputy Minister whether the President consults his Cabinet when creating new districts. If so, is he aware of Mitete having been discussed during these consultations?

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I think that I will protect the hon. Minister. The question is particularly on those two districts.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that his ministry is not in a position to know which districts will be created. However, I happen to know that the Ministry of Local Government and Housing is responsible for decentralisation. The hon. Minister further said that this is one process by which decentralisation will be achieved. Can the hon. Minister tell us whether his ministry makes an input in the creation of districts.

Mr Tembo: Mr Speaker, my answer was clear and straightforward. The Ministry of Local Government and Housing does not create districts. All the powers to do this are vested in the Head of State.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tembo: This is under the Provincial and District Boundaries Act Cap. 286 of the Laws of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, I thank you …

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, the Constitution of Zambia, Article 44, Sub-section 2 (e) states that:

“Establish and dissolve such Government ministries and departments subject to the approval of the National Assembly.”

Mr Speaker, is the Government in order to change ministries without coming before this House? Now, we have a Back Bencher sitting on the Front Bench and we have no idea which ministry she is representing.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: Furthermore, the hon. Minister of Information, Broadcasting and Labour has been shifted to the Opposition …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: … without informing this House. Is the Government in order to do things that way?

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The Chair has information that His Honour the Vice-President will move a Motion on the subject. Therefore, until that time, we should wait.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I have already made a ruling on that point of order. His Honour the Vice-President will move a Motion. He will be coming to the House to clear the matter.

The hon. Member for Kabompo West may proceed.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, we are quite aware that the powers to create districts are vested in the President. However, what we are asking, bwana Minister, is whether the Ministry of Local Government and Housing as well as the Cabinet have an input in these decisions. Can we know.

The Deputy Speaker: Order!

The question was, and I want us to confine ourselves to it, when Mitete would be accorded district status and the answer was clear. Therefore, I do not think that we should go beyond what the question asked.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the creation of districts is part of the Decentralisation Programme of the Patriotic Front (PF). I would like to know how many more districts will be created as per this programme.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I think that we are cleverly trying to avoid the ruling of the Chair. The ruling was very clear and specific. The answer was that it is a presidential prerogative and we will leave it at that.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

CLINIC CONSTRUCTION IN CHIEF NGABWE’S AREA

440. Mr Zimba (Kapiri-Mposhi) asked the Minister of Health whether the Government had any immediate plans to construct a clinic in Chief Ngabwe’s area in Kapiri-Mposhi Parliamentary Constituency.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Chikusu): Mr Speaker, a health post already exists in Chief Ngabwe’s area in Kapiri-Mposhi Constituency. My ministry’s immediate plan, however, is to expand the existing health facility to a fully-fledged rural health centre. To this effect, my ministry has made a provision of K100 million, in the 2012 Infrastructure Operational Plan, for the expansion of the rural health centre in Chief Ngabwe’s area.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Zimba: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the distance from Kapiri-Mposhi to Chief Ngabwe’s area is 300km and the people there are suffering because of having to walk such long distances? Can he state exactly when, probably, the construction of this clinic will be started. This assurance has been pending too long in this House.

The Minister of Health (Dr Kasonde): Mr Speaker, I appreciate the long distance that has to be covered by patients, but I assure the hon. Member that, in allocating K100 million for this purpose, in 2012, the intention is to implement the project in 2012. I do not see any other interpretation.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Habeenzu: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the allocation of K100 million, but, hon. Minister, are you sure that the money is going to help that clinic to be fully operational?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Before I call upon the hon. Minister of Health, I would just like to guide the House that you have to get used to asking questions through the Chair, not directly to the hon. Minister. I think, in that way, both parties get protected.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I do not know the extent to which the hon. Member’s request can be assured. In this particular instance, what we are doing is to upgrade the existing structure of the health post. We put these estimates into the expenditures for the year because of our understanding that this would be adequate. However, we do reserve the right, at any given time, to review the figure and come back to request for more, if we find that there is a need to do so.

I thank you, Sir.

KAZUNGULA BORDER POST BRIDGE

441. Mr Ntundu asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a) when the construction of a bridge across the Zambezi River at Kazungula District would commence;

(b) what the estimated cost of the project was; and

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the construction of a bridge across the Zambezi River at Kazungula Border Post, in Kazungula District, is expected to commence in 2014.

Sir, the project is estimated to US$260 million. The estimated cost includes construction of the bridge, rail, access roads and a one-stop border facility. Zambia’s contribution will be US$135 million and the major portion of these funds, US$82 million, will be sourced from the African Development Bank (ADB) while the Japanese International Corporation Agency (JICA) will contribute US$37 million. The counterpart funding from Zambia will be US$13.5 million. The Government of Botswana will contribute US$125 million, most of which will be sourced from JICA. The Government of the Republic of Zambia (GRZ) signed the loan agreement with the ADB in January 2012. The negotiations for the JICA loan were successfully held in February, 2012, and the signing is expected to be done soon once the loan is ready. Botswana is still arranging its component of the funding.

Sir, the contractor of the project has not yet been awarded. This will be done after the design review is undertaken by the consultant and the preparation of tender documents is finalised.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.{mospagebreak}

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government, now sitting on the left side of the House …

Hon. Government Members: They are your friends.

Mr Ntundu: Yes, they are our friends. You were also our friends when you were this side.

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: Sir, I am aware that the former Government had completed the feasibility study for the Kazungula Bridge Project and the money for its works had already been sourced.

Mr Deputy Speaker: What is your follow-up question?

Mr Ntundu: I can confirm this.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Can you, please, ask your follow-up question.

Mr Ntundu: The question is: Why does this Government want to make a shift, now, from the arrangement that was left by the previous Government in constructing the Kazungula Bridge? Where does it want to take the money?

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, it is a pity that the hon. Member is not being factual. I think that, when we come here, we should give facts. I would challenge the hon. Member to lay facts that the money had already been sourced by the previous Government. Now, let me give a comprehensive answer.

Sir, the actual construction of the bridge will start in 2014. However, before that, what we have, as at 1st July, is the setting up of the project office at Kasani, in Botswana, to accommodate both Zambian and Botswana personnel, who will oversee the project. The implementation of the Resettlement Action Plan for the affected commercial and residential plots, including the resettlement of local communities at Lumbu Village, which is expected to commence by the end of 2012, is actually in progress. We have been having bilateral meetings between Botswana and Zambia so that we can implement a very smooth project and in a well-planned manner.

Sir, the procurement of the design review, supervision of the contractor and the expression of intrest was done and closed on 9th July, 2012, which was yesterday. The evaluation will commence on 11th July, 2012, which is tomorrow. So, we are not holding back anything. We already have a K25 billion provision to work on this project in the 2012 Budget. We are working according to the plan. Once we find a consultant, the whole project will just be rolled out because it is the consultant who will review the design that is already there. The designs have been changing over time and we want to have a proper design so that we can move on. So, the consultant will be engaged. Otherwise, everything is on course. No one should be jittery because the project will be implemented.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, considering the fact that this border is economically very important to this country, when will the consultant be picked?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I do not want to be rude, but I will just repeat what I said. The procurement for the design review and the supervision consultant for the bridge and the expression of interest were closed yesterday, 9th July, 2012, and evaluations will be done on 11th July, 2012, tomorrow.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mulomba (Magoye): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out what measures the Government is putting in place to decongest the border area, which is flooded with trucks, since we have been told that the construction of the bridge will only commence in 2014, which is two years from now.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, currently, we have pontoons that are helping to ferry the trucks and people. We had a problem with one of the embankments, but we are trying to rehabilitate it to ensure safe docking of the pontoon.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, we have heard that US$260 million is going to be spent on the construction of that bridge. What is the total length of the bridge?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the bridge is 930m long and 16.5m wide.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I would like get a definite assurance from the Government that this project will not be shifted to 2015. This is because this House was earlier assured that the construction of this bridge would commence in 2013 but, now, we are being told that it will commence in 2014. How, then, will we know that this 2014 will not be shifted to 2015?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the project has already started. I have given you dates like 1st, 9th and 11th July, 2012. We said that the project would commence in 2014, although there will also be resettlements that will take place before that date. The resettlement is part of the project. So, I would like to assure everybody that we are committed to delivering this project to the people of Zambia.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, from the outset, I would like to put it on record that I am joining the former President, Mr Rupiah Banda, in apologising to the people of the United States of America ...

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, order!

Mr Hamudulu: ... for the embarrassment that their former President, George Bush, suffered when he visited our country recently.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, order!

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, my question is: …

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Please, there shall be order in the House. That preliminary remark is unsustained. Can you ask your question?

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, now that we know that the project will commence in 2014, when will it be completed.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the project is expected to take four years. That is why we are trying to get the consultant to review the design and see whether he can bring the completion date forward. However, the tentative completion date is 2018.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Habeenzu: Mr Speaker, in the unlikely event that the Botswana side is not ready to meet its obligations to the project by 2014, is the project still going to take off?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the Republic of Botswana is very committed and will definitely do its part for the project to take off.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, to what depth was the Zambian Government involved in the design of this bridge?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister, oh, hon. Member of Parliament, for …

Hon Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: … yes, he is the former hon. Minister for the same ministry. So, I know that he knows what he is talking about. The Republic of Zambia had the representation of its engineers, who were involved in the design of the bridge as well as the changes made. Initially, it was supposed to be a straight bridge but, now, it will have a curve. So, the engineers were involved, but we have to carry out a review in order for us to move on.

I thank you, Sir.

THE E-LEARNING PROGRAMME

442. Mr Chitotela (Pambashe) (on behalf of Mr Chisala) (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a) how much money had been spent on the purchase of the e-learning bus, which is equipped with nineteen computers;

(b) how many schools had benefited from the e-learning programme in 2011;

(d) what the pupil-computer ratio in Zambia was in:

(i) urban constituencies; and

(ii) rural constituencies; and

(e) how much money had been spent on the e-learning conferences held in 2007 and 2010.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the e-learning computer laboratory bus, which is equipped with nineteen computers, was bought from Tergal Trading Company, T/A Bhutan Technology of South Africa at R5,833,469, which was equivalent to K3,998,066,703.43 at the rate of R1 per K653.73, which was the prevailing rate then.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members on my right, I think that it is only fair that we give the hon. Minister the opportunity to be heard. The problem is that we are consulting loudly and that disturbs the flow of the argument. Can we consult quietly. This also applies to people on my left.

Can you continue, hon. Minister.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the bus was delivered to the ministry in May, 2010.

Sir, according to our statistics, eighty-five schools benefited from the e-learning programme in 2011.

Mr Speaker, in terms of utilisation, which was the question in (c), the e-learning mobile laboratory bus has been fully utilised in the orientation and Information Communication Technology (ICT) sensitisation in the mentioned schools, as it can be seen from the activities undertaken in 2011. Suffice to say that teachers and learners have greatly benefited from the facilities.

Mr Speaker, the ministry has not yet gathered information on the pupil-computer ratio in both the urban and rural constituencies. However, it has a system used to collect annual data called ED ASSIST, but the instrument used to determine the pupil-computer ratio is yet to be included.

Sir, K1,606, 729, 330. 28 was spent on hosting the e-Learning Africa Conference held at the Mulungushi International Conference Centre in May, 2010. The conference was co-hosted by five ministries, namely, Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, Agriculture and Livestock, Communication and Transport, and Health, which shared the cost.

Sir, in 2007, K247,352,978 was spent on hosting the national conference dubbed “E-Learning Zambia”, which was also held at the Mulungushi International Conference Centre in March, 2007.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, was the procedure followed in procuring the bus that was worth K4 billion by the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, to the best of my knowledge, everything was in order and the bus is there.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Speaker, who are the intended beneficiaries for this facility and who came up with the idea?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the intended beneficiaries of the e-learning bus are the learners and teachers.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear! Mabumba!

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the position of the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, which was, of course, in the forefront of coming up with this idea from the conferences which were held in 2007 and 2010, is to ensure that our schools are provided with information and ICT infrastructure. As part of that initiative, the Government decided to procure an e-learning bus as a demonstration tool for the learners and teachers.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa (Kawambwa): Mr Speaker …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Chilangwa: … in his answer, the hon. Minister’s stated that eighty-five schools benefited from the services provided by the bus in 2011. Therefore, is the ministry considering acquiring additional buses so that each province can have such a facility of its own?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Mabumba: … in fact, when I was having a discussion with officers in the ministry, they told me that they also thought that having one demonstration bus is not sufficient to cater for all our provinces in Zambia. From the time the bus was bought, only about seven provinces have been catered for. However, as we consider such plans, we need to evaluate the merits of spending money on the procurement of the bus with its good facilities as opposed to buying computers and software to put in classrooms. So, those are divergent views that we need to take on board as a country.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

COMPUTER FACILITIES IN COMMUNITY SCHOOLS

443. Mr Chitotela (on behalf of Mr Chisala) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education how many community schools, countrywide, had computer facilities as of February, 2012 and, if any, how these schools acquired the computers.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the ministry has recorded about 2,859 community schools across the country. Out of these, only 216 schools have computer facilities with a total of 421 computers as at 2010. These were acquired through donations from different organisations such as churches, Computer Aid and Camera Project. The statistics for community schools, countrywide, with computer facilities as of February, 2012, are just being collected. The ministry is still compiling data for the 2011 Statistical Bulletin.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Siliya (Petauke): Mr Speaker, let me also congratulate the hon. Deputy Minister for answering questions very well. In the ministry’s efforts to try and put computers in schools, how much work has been done with the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication so as to utilise the Universal Access Fund requirement which stipulates that 5 per cent of the obligations which mobile phone companies pay to the Government should go towards the promotion of ICTs in schools?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, in fact, we have had some discussions with the Zambia Information and Communication Technology Authority (ZICTA) and, of course, the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, in terms of working out modalities to provide ICT infrastructure in schools. Furthermore, and I said this not too long ago, we have signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) with Microsoft Corporation. Therefore, we will be able to get cheaper software for computers in schools.

So, in fact, these discussions are on-going and I am sure we are going to do a great job in terms of providing ICT infrastructure in schools. As I have said before, on the Floor of this House, we hope to work in line with the overall national ICT Policy because it provides benchmarks and guidelines in terms of how ICT infrastructure is going to be provided in schools.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

NEW STAFF POSITIONS IN THE MINISTRY OF HEALTH

444. Mr Muntanga asked the Vice-President:

(a) when the Public Service Commission (PSC) would create new positions in the Ministry of Health to which nurses who obtain first and higher university degrees may be promoted; and

(b) why the PSC had taken long to create the new positions.

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, promotional positions in the Ministry of Health for nurses who obtain first and higher university degrees were created in 2006. This was when authority was granted to restructure the ministry. The Ministry of Health has been filling the positions annually when such positions are funded by the National Budget for the net recruitment of health workers. The following are the positions to which nurses with degrees can be promoted:

Cadre Position

chief nursing officer MSO 1

principal nursing officer MSO 2

senior nursing officer MSO 3

nursing officer MSO 4

principal tutor MSO 2

senior tutor MSO 3

tutor MSO 4

Mr Speaker, the creation of new positions in any ministry is a responsibility of the Management Development Division (MDD) in conjunction with the user ministry, in this case, the Ministry of Health and not the PSC. Firstly, the concerned ministry must identify the need to create new positions and provide justifications. Secondly, the ministry, in conjunction with the MDD, must develop a proposed structure to show how the new positions will fit into the existing structure. Thirdly, when the new structure is approved by the MDD, the user ministry seeks Treasury authority to fill the newly created positions.

Mr Speaker, I thank you and apologise to the questioner if the answer is a bit intense.

The Vice-President left his microphone on.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Please, switch off your microphone.

The Vice-President switched of microphone.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, is the Vice-President aware that, in spite of the creation of those new positions, the Ministry of Health has not effected the implementation of this initiative? This is to the extent that any nurse with a first or higher degree is not promoted, but rather just sent on further training while some opt to leave the country for greener pastures. If he is aware, what is he going to do as the Vice-President to ensure that the hon. Minister of Health effects the promotion of these nurses?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am going to look into the matter and report back to the hon. Member quite soon.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, would the Vice-President consider the fact that we are actually looking at this problem the wrong way. When these nurses have upgraded their qualifications to degree level or any other higher qualification, they should not necessarily be promoted. Is it …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!

Can you, please, ask your question.

Ms Siliya: Would it not be much better for the Government to consider actually rewarding these nurses, who have upgraded their qualifications, not necessarily with a promotion, but with a salary increment to the extent that they can be happy enough to continue working in the wards and other places? I know, for example, in countries like the United Kingdom, that they want to phase out the …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The question has been asked.

Ms Siliya: Thank you, Sir.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I will certainly look into that creative suggestion.

I thank you, Sir.

MAINTENANCE OF THE PARAMILITARY POLICE TRAINING SCHOOL ROAD

445. Mr Muntanga asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a) when the road leading to the Paramilitary Police Training School in Kafue would be graded and maintained; and

(b) whether there are any plans to tar the road and, if so, when the road would be tarred.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the Government, through the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), undertook spot improvement works on this road between December, 2011, and January, 2012, for a stretch of 8.1 km at the sum of K14.8 million. However, re-gravelling works will form an appropriate intervention and can only be undertaken on the road subject to the availability of funds.

Mr Speaker, the project to tar the road will be included in the 2013 Road Sector Annual Work Plan.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the road leading to the Paramilitary Police Training School, in Kafue, has not been graded for some time? Some parts of the road are impassable, yet it is the only institution which trains military police? What immediate plans are going to be taken to ensure that the road is graded?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the ministry will send engineers to assess whether what has been reported is the correct position. If so, there will be some intervention.

Thank you, Sir.

POLICE POST RE-ESTABLISHMENT AND BORDER POST ESTABLISHMENT IN KABOMPO EAST CONSTITUENCY

446. Mr Chingimbu (Kabompo East) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a) when the ministry would re-establish a police post at Manyinga in Kabompo East Parliamentary Constituency to curb crime in the area; and

(b) when an immigration border post would be established at Ndunga in the constituency.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the police post at Manyinga, in Kapompo East Parliamentary Constituency, was closed in 1994 after it was damaged by angry residents in reaction to the accidental shooting and wounding of two residents by the police. However, I am happy to inform the House that funds for the rehabilitation of Manyinga Police Post have been sourced and the Provincial Administration for the North-Western Province is in the process of commencing the works. Police officers will be deployed at the post in the course of this year.

Sir, the Immigration Department, in the Ministry of Home Affairs, has plans to build an immigration border post at Ndunga, in Kabompo East Parliamentary Constituency, once the Government has sourced funds for that purpose.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, is the Government going to source enough manpower, this time round, in order for the police post not to be closed in case of a riot?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, since the population of Manyinga has grown, the ministry is, in fact, considering upgrading Manyinga Police Post into a fully-fledged police station in 2013.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Deputy Minister for assuring the House that a border post, at Ndunga, will be built. On the Floor of this House, Washishi was promised K100 million …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Let me seize this opportunity to advise. Let us ask questions straight away and not preface them with statements. I think we all know what a question is.

Can the hon. Member for Lukulu West ask his question, please.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, how much money has the ministry set aside for the construction of an immigration border post at Ndunga? An amount of K100 million was set aside for such works at Washishi. However, the construction works have not taken place.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Very good.

Laughter

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, officers in the ministry are still carrying out an assessment exercise. The amount will only be known once the assessment has been carried out.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, the House has just been informed that a border post will be constructed at Ndunga. How much revenue is the Government losing as a result of having no border post at Ndunga?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, that question cannot be answered off-the-cuff. Maybe, the hon. Member should be kind enough to pose it as a question and I will come back to the House with details.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, now that the Livingstone By-election is over, when is the Land Cruiser, which belongs to Namwala, going to be released?

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! Order! Order!

Once again, the Chair would like to advise that Question 446 is very clear. So, the follow-up question asked by the hon. Member for Namwala is unsustainable.

Let us move to the next question.

LUANGWA DISTRICT’S NEWLY CONSTRUCTED SECONDARY SCHOOL

447. Mr P. A. Ngoma (Feira) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education when the newly constructed secondary school, in Luangwa District, would be officially opened to the public.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the school was initially supposed to be constructed in Mandevu, Lusaka, but because there was no land at the time, a decision was made to relocate the school to Luangwa District. As a result of the delay in terms of relocating the construction site, it is expected that the school will be fully completed by December, 2013, at which stage the official opening will take place.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr P. A. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Deputy Minister in liaison with the hon. Minister of Foreign and Tourism in ensuring that the structures are protected from being damaged by elephants because …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Your question is clear. Do not go further than that.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the only assurance that I can give to the hon. Member for Feira is that we will engage the relevant statutory bodies like the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) and the newly- created Ministry of Tourism and Arts in addressing that issue.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, the question was when this newly constructed school would be opened and the answer, if I got it correctly, was December, 2013. That, probably, means a year from now.

Mr Deputy Speaker: What is your question?

Dr Kalila: The question is: If this school is newly constructed, why is it taking so long to be officially opened and at what stage of construction is it?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, although the question said that the school, in Luangwa, has been constructed, it is still undergoing construction. It is undergoing phase I of construction which entails the building of classrooms, teachers’ houses and laboratories. We are estimating 2013 as the appropriate year of completion because the school has to go through the second phase of construction. Further, given that it has to go through the Zambia Public Procurement Authority (ZPPA) and the Ministry of Justice, our estimation, I think, is appropriate.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister’s response was that he would wait for the creation of a new ministry. However, would it not be proper for the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education to erect a wire fence around the school to prevent the elephants from going through to destroy it?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, in fact, as part of the contractual obligation, all the schools that we are constructing have to be fenced. Of course, for Luangwa and Feira, in particular, special consideration will be given, considering that the issue of the human-animal conflict has arisen.

I thank you, Sir.

HEALTH FACILITIES IN KAMFINSA

448. Mr Chishimba (Kamfinsa) asked the Minister of Health:

(a) when the following health facilities, in Kamfinsa Parliamentary Constituency, would have a full staff complement:

(i) Ndeke Village Mini-Hospital;

(ii) Mulenga Urban Health Centre; and

(iii) Ndeke Clinic;

(b) when the construction of Ndeke Village-Mini Hospital would be completed;

(d) if so, when construction would commence.

Dr Chikusu: Mr Speaker, the Ndeke Village Health Centre is being right sized to a first level hospital. This facility, together with Mulenga Urban Health Centre, is not yet gazzetted and does not have its own staff establishment.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Health has started the process of gazzetting the two health facilities and is working with the Public Service Management Development Division to create positions so that the clinics can operate at full capacity with adequate necessary staffing levels.

Sir, since Ndeke Village and Mulenga Urban Health centres do not have their own establishments, members of staff have been transferred or re-deployed from other facilities to render service at the two health facilities to provide the minimum basic health needs for the communities of Mulenga and Ndeke Village.

Mr Speaker, let me provide the current staff position at Ndeke Village Mini-Hospital, …

Mr Deputy Speaker: My left has stopped listening.

Dr Chikusu: … Mulenga Urban Centre and Ndeke Clinic. It is a long list, but to sumarise it, there are eight health workers at Mulenga Urban Health Centre out of an establishment of thirty-one, twenty-seven at Ndeke Clinic out of an establishment of thirty-one and eight at Ndeke Village Health Centre out of an establishment of thirty-one.

Mr Speaker, the country continues to face a critical shortage of professional health workers due to a number of reasons such as low output from training institutions and the construction of new health facilities across the country hence increasing the demand for health workers for both existing and new health facilities.

Sir, however, the ministry is in the process of recruiting health workers based on the K77.8 billion allocated for net recruitment of health workers in the 2012 National Budget. Health workers will be deployed to both existing and new facilities across the country, including the facilities in question.

Mr Speaker, the construction of Ndeke Village Health Centre is in three phases. Phase I, comprising the Out-Patient Department and a ward constructed at a cost of K295 million, has been completed and is fully operational. Phase II, comprising maternity and labour and female Wards, is currently under construction and is almost completed. It is at plastering level. Phase III, comprising a children’s clinic and ward, will commence as soon as phase II is completed. The total cost for Phases II and III is estimated at K907,717,159.30

Mr Speaker, as stated above, the maternity wing, which is in Phase II of the project, is currently under construction and has reached plastering level. Construction of a maternity ward has already commenced and is nearing completion.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chishimba: Mr Speaker, the former MMD Government opened this hospital prematurely in order …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

What is your question?

Mr Chishimba: … to hoodwink the people of Kamfinsa Constituency to vote for it.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

What is your question?

Mr Chishimba: It is encouraging, today, to note that …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Chishimba: … this PF Government …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Chishimba: … is a listening Government.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member for Kamfinsa, your question lapses.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Speaker, if I heard the hon. Deputy Minister correctly in his comprehensive response, he stated that this hospital is not yet gazetted. How, then, are we budgeting for it if it is not gazzetted?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I am sorry that the hon. Member for Kamfinsa could not continue his message because, perhaps, he would have even added some information …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

Interruptions

Hon. Member: Long live the Chair!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Once a ruling has been made, you do not question the ruling of the Chair. So, hon. Minister, you answer the question.

Laughter

The Deputy Speaker: Order!

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, it would not at all be in my way not to follow what the Hon. Mr Speaker has said. I was only saying that …

Hon. Members: Aah!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Do not dilute the Chair’s ruling. Can you answer the question.

Laughter

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, the construction of a hospital does not need to be gazetted. It is the constructed hospital that gets gazetted. I have difficulty in understanding any other interpretation of this question.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Yah! That is good.

Laughter

ZAMBIAN TOURISM OFFICE IN AUSTRALIA

449. Mr Kalaba (Bahati) asked the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and Tourism whether the Government had any immediate plans to open a tourism office in Australia to promote Zambia’s tourist attractions.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, with your indulgence, since the ministry mentioned here is in a state of limbo, at the moment, in the process …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!

Just answer the question. The question is clear. Until you move a Motion, we will stick to this terminology.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the answer is, no. The Government has no immediate plans to open a tourism office in Australia as it is currently in the process of analysing the operations of a newly-instituted Zambian Tourism Board. This is a public entity that is supposed to establish tourism offices outside the premises of foreign missions in foreign countries, as is the norm with other tourism boards internationally.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, Australia is not affected by the Eurozone crisis, which is, currently, heavily affected by a financial crisis …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

That is as far as I can allow you to make your statement. Can you ask your question.

Laughter

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, the question is: Since Australia, now, is the only country in the Eurozone which is providing some relief of capacity in terms of tourism, because the tourists from there have the money to spend, why can the Government not take up this issue of making sure that we open an office in Australia instead of relying on Pretoria? This is because the person that is managing the affairs of Australia is in Pretoria. That is what the MMD left. So, …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Your question is clear. I think His Honour the Vice-President has understood.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The Vice-President: Sir, as I said, the Government is currently in the process of analyzing the operations of the new Zambian Tourism Board. If this truth about the strength of the Australian economy and so on and so forth comes before it, it will, no doubt, be recognised and implemented. However, we cannot be driven to finish the analysis today.

I thank you, Sir.

COMMUNICATION TOWERS IN VUBWI PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

450. Dr Kazonga (Vubwi) asked the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication when communication towers would be constructed at the following locations in Vubwi Parliamentary Constituency to improve mobile phone communication:

(a) Chigwe;

(b) Kabvumo;

(d) Mkumbudzi;

(e) Mwangazi;

(f) Msokosela; and

(g) Zozwe.

Laughter

Interruptions

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Colonel Kaunda): Mr Speaker, there are no immediate plans by any of the …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Let us listen to the answer.

Colonel Kaunda: … service providers to construct communication towers in Chigwe, Kabvumo, Mchenjeza, Nkumbudzi, Mwangazi, Msokoselaa and Zozwe, in 2012.

Laughter

Colonel Kaunda: However, Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication is liaising with ZCTA and all the operators to improve communication services to all the newly-pronounced districts that include Vubwi, as well as to extend communication services to other unserviced peri-urban and rural areas.

Sir, in this regard, the service provider surveys will be undertaken as soon as practically possible to assess the extent of requirements to facilitate programming for execution. The activities include choosing the sites for tower location, access roads to site and requirements for foundation, depending on soil analysis and height of tower.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the people in the areas mentioned, particularly placing more emphasis on Zozwe …

Laughter

Dr Kazonga: … where the hon. Deputy Minister comes from and is equally affected, are using the Malawian network instead of the Zambian network? This is making communication very expensive. Is the ministry aware of this problem? If it is, what immediate measure is it going to put in place this year?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, when I was giving an answer to one of the questions raised by the hon. Member for Bahati, a few days ago, I said that I would be able to bring to the House a comprehensive report on our plans on the roll-out. Before we go back to our constituencies, I will do this.

Mr Speaker, currently, we are aware that there are a lot of areas around the country which have not been serviced. However, we have a programme and we are looking at that. We want to come up with a proper programme which you will be able to appreciate.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister, in his response, emphasised the responses from mobile providers. With the rolling-out, which the hon. Minister mentioned, I would like to find out to what extent he will influence the service providers to effect his plans.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, we are the parent ministry of all these mobile service providers. We have been having meetings with all of them so that we look at how we will do this cost-effectively. As I said last time, we want to ensure that, instead of having three towers in one area, we only have one which will allow all the mobile service providers connect their transmitters to it. This will be cost-effective and allow a situation where we will have more coverage around the country. So, we have that influence and we have been having meetings. We are also using the influence of the Office of the Vice-President.

I thank you, Sir.

Professor Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, the policy of collocation where various providers share a tower is not new. To what extent has the ministry facilitated the collocation of towers by the various providers, taking into account the remote rural areas?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, we are looking at the unserviced peri-urban and rural areas. So, together with the service providers, we are planning to ensure that we use the collocation approach in those areas. This is proving to be successful on our side.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out how much it costs to construct a communication tower.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the initial figure we were given was about K250 million, but we are trying to see how best we can reduce that cost.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, between ZCTA and the service provider, who is supposed to pay for rental charges where the tower is erected?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, although that is a new question, I would say that ZCTA is a regulator while the others are service providers. ZCTA will only subsidise where necessary. If that question was asked in relation to a specific area, we would have given you a proper answer.

I thank you, Sir.

LOSS OF EMPLOYMENT AT THE RDA

451. Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a) how many workers lost their jobs at the RDA from 1st October, 2011 to 31st March, 2012;

(b) what positions had been held by the workers at (a) above; and

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, seventeen members of staff lost their jobs at the RDA from 1st October, 2011, to 31st March, 2012. The positions held by the workers were as follows:

(a) one Senior Manager – Design;

(b) one Senior Manager – Road Maintenance Initiative;

(d) one Manager – Procurement;

(e) One Chief Engineer–Planning;

(f) one Chief Engineer – Construction and Rehabilitation;

(g) one Principal Engineer – Urban and Rural Roads;

(h) one Senior Procurement Engineer;

(i) two Procurement Engineers;

(j) two Procurement Officers;

(k) three Assistant Procurement Officers;

(l) one Administrative and Human Resource Officer; and

(m) one Weighbridge Officer at Mpika.
Mr Speaker, the terminations were due to re-organisation.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, were the people who lost their jobs given their dues?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, whereas I appreciate the question that the hon. Member has asked, I would like to say that this whole issue is in the courts of law. Therefore, I cannot say anything concerning this matter at the moment.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the loss of employment was due to re-organisation. Does re-organisation send people to court?

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I think I will not allow us to delve into that issue. We have been told that the matter is in the courts of law. Therefore, we will leave it at that.

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, since the termination of employment was due to re-organisation, are there new positions that have been created to fill those that were phased out?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the process is underway and we are looking at various options.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, is it true that as a result of the loss of employment by these very highly qualified road engineers, there is now a skills shortage in the road sector?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, there is no shortage of skills in the road sector. We have enough competent engineers. If we want more competent engineers, we will get them from the street. Therefore, we do not have a problem with competency.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, due to this issue of re-organisation, did you find any one of those terminated workers wanting to the extent of taking further action?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, those are the issues which are in the courts of law. Therefore, I cannot answer that question at the moment.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.{mospagebreak}

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

NAKONDE ONE-STOP BORDER POST BUILDING COMPLETION

452. Mr Sichula (Nakonde) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning:

(a) when the construction of the one-stop border post building at Nakonde Border would be completed; and

(b) how much money would be spent on the project on completion.

The Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Sampa): Mr Speaker, the construction of the one-stop border post at Nakonde by a company called China Jiangxi Corporation was stopped by the MMD Government on 8th December, 2010, when it opted to complete the works which were then 75 per cent done by means of a public-private partnership (PPP) concession. At the time of stoppage, the Government had paid a total of K10,998,666,173.57 from the certified sum of K23,010,192,690.69, leaving a balance of K12,011,526,517.12. The amount due to China Jiangxi remains unpaid and is accruing interest.

The PPP concessionaire called Five Border Grossing took over the project on 23rd February, 2011, with the promise of completing the works by October, 2011, but had only managed to install roofing sheets at the time the PF Government reversed the concession in February, this year.

Sir, the works done by the PPP concessionaire were assessed and the contract was formarly terminated. The remaining works have been assessed and we are looking to engage a contractor, preferably the old one, which is China Jiangxi. With all the delays experienced, the project may be completed by December, 2012.

Mr Speaker, the original contract sum was K30,614,93,119, but, with escalation and interest charges, the project cost can only be known after the engagement of a contractor for the completion of the works since the remaining works have not been assessed. However, once assessed, the cost will be known.

Mr Sichula: Mr Speaker, my question has been overtaken by events.

LOCAL COURT AT MOYO

453. Mrs Mazoka asked the Minister of Justice whether the ministry was aware that the local court at Moyo stopped operating in 2004 because of the poor state of the court building and lack of staff.

The Deputy Minister of Justice (Ms Kansembe): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Government is aware that the local court at Moyo is in a bad state, but it is operational although with very lean staff. The local court will not be rehabilitated in 2012 due to budgetary constraints. However, it will be considered for rehabilitation in 2013 alongside other local courts which have either completely collapsed or are in a state of disrepair like Moyo Local Court.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Mazoka: Mr Speaker, what measures will the ministry put in place to make the work of the staff more comfortable? As it is now, they, sometimes, congregate under a tree.

The Minister of Justice (Mr S. S. Zulu): Mr Speaker, the ministry will consider this issue if the hon. Member consults and brings the actual problems to us. That is when I will consider the position.

I thank you, Sir.

CONSTRUCTION QUARRIES

454. Mr Mufalali asked the minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection:

(a) whether an environmental impact assessment was undertaken prior to the siting of quarries for use in the construction of the Sesheke/Senanga Road;

(b) how many quarries were approved for the entire road;

(c) whether the Government would compensate households whose sources of drinking water had been affected by the quarrying; and

(d) how many families had been affected in both Sesheke and Senanga districts by quarrying.

The Deputy Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection (Mr Muchima): Mr Speaker, an environmental impact assessment (EIA) was undertaken prior to the siting of quarries for use in the construction of the Sesheke/Senanga Road. The developer of the road, the RDA, submitted an EIA for the entire stretch of the road and the environmental project briefs for each of the identified quarry sites to the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA) formerly known as the Environmental Council of Zambia (ECZ), which were then approved.

Mr Speaker, under this project, the agency approved three quarries, namely Namaaenya, which is 80 km from Senanga, Katima, which is 10 km from Sesheke, and Sesheke Royal Quarry, which is 1 km from the Sesheke Bridge.

Mr Speaker, the data on the number of families in Sesheke and Senanga districts whose source of drinking water was affected by the quarry is not available. This is due to the fact that the issue of contamination of drinking water by quarrying was not a matter of concern at the time when the environmental impact assessment was conducted.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how the families that have been affected by the quarrying in Namahenya, where the water was polluted when the contractor dug out graves on the site, will be assisted.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, actually, when the ministry heard about the pollution in that stream, between October and November, Mr. Fredrick Muyano, who is the principal inspector in charge of the EAI, visited the place and tested the water upstream and downstream and later enquires were made. Upon finding out from the villagers in the presence of the councillor, it was discovered that at a certain time when the water levels go down, the water tends to change colour. On that score, the cause of the contamination could not be identified. I am wondering whether the hon. Member of Parliament in that constituency has even visited the place. However, my ministry will visit the place, this Saturday, to check whether the contamination that is being talked about is real.

Mr Speaker the drinking water in that place comes from wells that are far away from the village, but the area that is talked about is along the river where the contractor was getting stones from. This only affected a small portion of the water which was not even contaminated. This resulted in a blockage which further resulted in the water going to the grave and overflowing it. The contractor has since been warned. At the moment, the situation has normalised, but we will still follow up this issue to verify whether the water was chemically polluted.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sianga (Sesheke): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether the hon. Minister is aware of the displacement of the people in Sesheke caused by the construction. The people have not been compensated.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, there are two issues that are being talked about. One of them is with regard to the issue of people affected by the pollution of water and the other relates to those who were displaced because of the bypass of the road. However, the people who were affected by the road have since been compensated. Precisely, the amount that was involved was K1.4 billion plus. The issue of the water pollution is still questionable.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the quarry, which is at Namahenya, has caused cracks in the school’s building.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, as we have said, the ministry is concerned about the effects of the floods because of the blocking of the stream. However, if the hon. Member or anybody else is available this Saturday, I will urge them to visit the place. We will then come back and give this House the correct position as regards this issue.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister is skating around this problem, which affects people’s lives.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Professor Lungwangwa: This problem has to do with pollution.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

You may, now, ask your question.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister said that pollution was not a factor in the EIA. What other factor, then, was more important in the assessment, if not pollution?

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, we are concerned about the pollution of the water, which could affect people’s lives. This stream, however, is also used by cattle. At the time of quarrying, the contractor removed some stones and blocked the stream, which flooded the graveyard. However, this did not affect the people’s drinking water. When we enquired about the colour of the water, the village headmen confirmed that, at a certain time, the water colour changes. They inspected upstream and downstream to compare the water colour, and it was the same.

Mr Speaker, I can confirm that, this weekend, a team will go there to get some water to sample for contamination in the laboratory.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, what corporate social responsibility activities are being undertaken by this company in the community affected by these operations?

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member’s question deviates from the principal question, but I will respond.

Mr Speaker, all those who were affected were compensated. It is the Government’s responsibility, for the benefit of the people in the area, to divert the road so that good works are carried out.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, is it not pollution for the water to get mixed with bodies from the graveyard? This is something captured on camera by the hon. Member for Senanga. The hon. Minister said that headmen were called in to certify the water colour. In responding to this question, is he going to rely on the assessment of village headmen concerning the colour of the water?

Mr Ng’onga: Question!

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, a responsible answer would be like this:

Laughter

Mr Muchima: When dealing with people’s lives, everybody here is concerned.

The contractor was cautioned for having blocked the stream, which caused the flood and affected the graves. The ministry rushed to the site and dismantled that blockage and the water flowed.

Mr Speaker, when talking about pollution, which one are we referring to exactly? Is it the one caused by humans or the one caused by animals? Even animals drink from this stream. However, this water is different from the one that people drink, which is safe even now. If there are still some concerns, there is a team going there this weekend to get samples and see how much human life was affected.

I thank you, Sir.

DESIGNATED TRADING PLACES

455. Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a) whether the Government had intentions of demolishing the illegally constructed market located near Findeco House and the Intercity Bus Terminus in the Lusaka’s Central Business District;

(b) when the street vendors trading along Freedom Way, Lumumba, Chachacha and Cairo roads in Lusaka would be moved to designated trading places; and

(c) what permanent solution the Government had in order to make the marketers operate from permanent and humane trading places.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Masumba): Mr Speaker, the Government, with the Lusaka City Council (LCC), has engaged the traders located near Findeco House and adjacent to the Intercity Bus Terminus and will be having them relocated to approved trading places within existing markets.

Mr Speaker, the Government, through all local authorities, including the LCC, is working on a programme to control and prohibit street vending. In order to effectively and legally achieve this, the Ministry of Local Government and Housing has drafted and submitted to the Ministry of Justice a statutory instrument for the control and prohibition of street vending. Once this legal instrument has been cleared by the Ministry of Justice and, subsequently, published, through the Government Gazette, the Ministry of Local Government and Housing, through the LCC, will commence the programme of removing and controlling street vendors.

Mr Speaker, as mentioned above, once the statutory instrument has been gazetted, it will provide for a permanent and lasting solution to the problems of marketers trading from the streets.

Mr Speaker the Government is also looking at constructing more modern markets and rehabilitating existing ones to provide for conducive trading environments.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, I need clarification from the hon. Deputy Minister on part (a) of the question. He said that the vendors will be relocated to existing markets. Is he referring to the same illegal market or are there some other markets where these people will be taken to? Besides this, what is the actual position of the Government on this illegal market near Findeco House? Can you come out clearly, hon. Deputy Minister.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, …

Professor Luo entered the Assembly Chamber.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: … the actual position is as spelt out in the answer given. The answer is that the traders in the so-called ‘Donchi Kubeba Market’ have been engaged. Unless the question is talking about another market in a similar place, the position on the market under question is as spelt out. The marketers will be relocated to approved trading places within existing markets. This, of course, does not mean that we are going to relocate somebody who is already in ‘Don’t Kubeba Market’ within ‘Donchi Kubeba Market’. It does not make any sense. What makes sense is the meaning of this answer which is that the marketers may be relocated to New Soweto Market and other places.

Mr Speaker, we have to admit that this situation became very complicated over the period of the elections. The Intercity Bus Terminus was a supposed no-go area for the PF and, for that matter, the United Party for National Development (UPND), because it was controlled by the iron fist of then a certain MMD member, who is, now, in the UPND, …

Laughter

The Vice-President: ... a lot of people with various party allegiances found themselves excluded. The response to this, after the elections, was that a new area be opened up adjacent to Intercity, where the business is good. After all, these markets or street vending only exists because people want to buy. The ordinary citizens, who one would think are making so much noise about cleanliness and so on and so forth, are the people buying from the people who they are complaining about. So, I think that the answer is clear. The situation is complicated, but being attended to.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, the answer that the marketers at the illegal markets are going to be moved to the existing markets is, indeed, clear. The question is: When does the Government intend to move these people, since there are already places where they can go and trade, instead of waiting for them to continue trading illegally?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, when the time is auspicious.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, has any assessment been done on whether all the vendors will be ‘swallowed’ by the existing markets?

Hon. Government Members: Swallowed?

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Professor Luo): Mr Speaker, on various occasions, in this august House, we have informed the hon. Members that, in fact, one of the initial activities that the ministry undertook was to take an inventory of the number of markets that we have and establish which ones are legal or illegal and which ones are under the Societies Act. We also carried out an inventory, throughout the country, of the people trading in our markets. We went further and started producing identity cards for all the people in the markets. The situation, now, is that a lot of people who have gone to trade on the street actually do have stands in the markets. So, it is a matter of getting them back there or, if they chose not to, they will not be trading.

Mr Speaker, in fact, the regulations that will be governing trading in the markets, and everywhere else, have been drafted by our ministry and the Ministry of Justice has translated them into the legal language, unlike what happened in the past, when an operation involved the police. After that operation, because we could not sustain the police on the street, people went back there. So, trading, now, will be governed by regulations, which the police will just be enforcing.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I am aware that the hon. Member of Parliament for Lusaka Central is behind the support for the people at the Donci Kubeba Market to remain there. Is he not making the job of the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing difficult?

Laughter

The Vice-President: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Muntanga: There is nobody debating.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: … this is my first point of order as Vice-President …

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: You are late!

Laughter

The Vice-President: … and, I trust, it will be the last. Is the honourable questioner in order not to ask a question, but make an allegation that impugns my integrity?

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: As much as the Chair may be tempted to make a ruling, unfortunately, he cannot because the hon. Member finished asking his question.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, this is not a House for people to bring speculations. I think that whatever anybody says must be backed by facts. What I know is that we have taken over a situation in which people do things with impunity and, if they want to continue, they will decide to point at a person and accuse him of being behind them. What I know about the Donchi Kubeba Market – and I, personally, have been there with the Mayor – is that it is just a group of people who are, like everybody else, doing things with impunity. However, plans are there, when the regulations are effected, to demolish the stalls and move those people out of there. So, these allegations must come to an end. I expect my colleagues to bring factual information to this august House because many other people are listening to us.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Quality!

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is telling us that her members are there with impunity. Hon. Minister, on the Floor of this House, you said that you were going to remove the traders …

Mr Ng’onga: Address the Chair!

Dr Kaingu: … from the Donchi Kubeba Market. In fact, they should have already been moved by now.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Dr Kaingu: When are you going to do it?

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, I said that I, with my two hon. Deputy Ministers, have been working round the clock to deal with the street vending activities. We would not like to be dealing with one problem all the time. This is a national problem and you cannot do it piece-meal. Even if I went and removed one group of people while the others are trading and doing the wrong things, then, I would have not succeeded. So, we are working round the clock and have sent draft regulations to the Ministry of Justice. In fact, I would like to believe that these regulations will be ready very soon and apply to everybody, including those in markets that were established by the MMD.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

____________{mospagebreak}

MOTIONS

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON LEGAL AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE, HUMAN RIGHTS, GENDER MATTERS AND CHLD AFFAIRS

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) (on behalf of Mr Mwiimbu) (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights, Gender Matters and Child Affairs for the First Session of the Eleventh National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on Tuesday, 26th June, 2012.

The Deputy Chairperson: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr M. Malama (Chitambo): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, in this Parliamentary Session, your Committee considered a topical issue in the governance sector, namely, ‘Public Sector Corruption: The Procurement Process of Goods and Services in Zambia.”

Sir, it is common knowledge that matters of corruption in the procurement of public goods and services have plagued this country for a very long time now.

Interruptions

Mr Miyutu: Every year, the Auditor-General’s Report reveals glaring financial irregularities and serious breaches of financial and procurement regulations and procedures in ministries and Government departments.

In addition, the media has been reporting on a number of alleged corruption activities in public procurement processes, some of which have ended up as corruption cases, currently, before the courts of law.

Mr Speaker, in view of what I have just outlined and coupled with the growing public perception that public sector corruption is on the increase, your Committee invited various stakeholders to help it gather information on this topical issue to find solutions to this problem, which has become entrenched in our country.

Sir, I wish to report that the feeling of all stakeholders who interacted with your Committee is that corruption in the procurement of goods and services is real and, therefore, should be uprooted and culprits dealt with decisively. The stakeholders brought to the fore a lot of issues, which have adequately been dealt with in your Committee’s report. Allow me, however, to highlight a few of them.

Stakeholders generally agreed that the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) is the most important institution with the mandate to investigate and prosecute issues involving public sector corruption. It was, however, recognised that this important institution is faced with both financial and operational challenges which affect the full execution of its mandate under the Anti-Corruption Commission Act.

Mr Speaker, your Committee learnt that the ACC does not have a presence at the grassroot level where citizens can report acts of corruption that may take place in Government institutions existing in their localities. In addition, the commission has inadequate manpower to cover the length and breadth of this country. This is coupled with poor conditions of service for officers and poor funding to the institution.

Sir, this state of affairs is not just unique to the ACC, but affects other law enforcement agencies, such as the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC) and the Zambia Police Force, which are key in the fight against corruption. I urge the Government to fund these institutions adequately so that they can enhance their operations in the fight against the scourge.

Mr Speaker, according to the Public Procurement Act, all procurement business is co-ordinated by the Zambia Public Procurement Authority (ZPPA). The ZPPA plays a critical role in policy formulation, regulation, standard setting, information management and dissemination in the field of public procurement. Concerns were raised with regards to the composition of the governing body and the central tender committee of the ZPPA.

Mr Speaker, pursuant to Clause 1 of the first schedule of the Public Procurement Act, the board of the ZPPA is composed of the hon. Minister responsible for Finance and National Planning, who is the chairperson; four other ministers appointed by the President; the Secretary to the Cabinet; the Attorney General; the Governor of the Bank of Zambia (BOZ); Permanent Secretaries responsible for Finance and National Planning; Commerce, Trade and Industry; Transport, Works, Supply and Communication as well as two other persons appointed by the President from the private sector.

Sir, under the second schedule to the Act, Clause 2 sets out the composition of the central tender committee as including: the Permanent Secretary responsible for financial management and administration, who is also the chairperson; Permanent Secretaries for administration at the Cabinet Office; Transport, Works, Supply and Communication; Commerce, Trade and Industry; Agriculture and Livestock; Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education; Health; Local Government and Housing; and Defence respectively. Others are a representative of the Attorney General, the Deputy Governor of the BOZ, the Commission General of the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) and the Director General of ZPPA.

Sir, these bodies comprise officials who are appointed by the President without ratification by an independent body such as the National Assembly, yet they are at the centre of public procurements and the awarding of tenders for big projects.

Mr Speaker, how possible is it that these presidential appointees can objectively undertake procurements where, for example, the person occupying the office of the President has personal interests? This is, of course, given that the President has the power to remove them from their positions at any time. Can they reasonably be expected to resist undue influence from the presidency?

Sir, your Committee is of the view that the Public Procurement Act should be amended to provide for the reduction in the number of persons appointed by the President sitting on these bodies and, instead, include individuals from civil society and other private institutions, who shall be nominated by their respective organisations for a specific period of time. This will enhance accountability and transparency in the procurement of public goods and services and awarding of contracts.

Mr Speaker, furthermore, stakeholders expressed concern on the tendency to use non-competitive processes such as single-sourcing for big procurements. The Public Procurement Act is very clear with regards to the circumstances under which limited bidding or limited selection can be used. It provides, in Section 29, that:

“limited bidding may be used where:

(a) the goods, works or services are only available from a limited number of suppliers; or

(b) there is an urgent need for the consulting services and engaging in open bidding would, therefore, be impractical.”

Sir, Section 30 of the same Act provides for limited selection and is reproduced, mutatis mutandis to Section 29.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Chairperson: Order!

That is latin. So, go ahead.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, with these provisions in mind, may I make a passionate appeal to the Government that when need arises to single-source, it should be done within the confines of these provisions of the law. Anything outside the law will amount to breach of the Act and may amount to abuse of office as stated in the Anti-Corruption Commission Act of 2012.

Mr Speaker, in order to enable your Committee appreciate how public procurements are undertaken by Government procurement entities, your Committee undertook local tours to Petauke, Chipata and Mambwe districts in the Eastern Province. The details and findings of these visits are explained in the Committee’s report. Let me, however, highlight the Committee’s findings regarding the Chipata/Mfuwe Road, which is, currently, under construction.

In order to gather information on the procurement and awarding of the contract on the Chipata/Mfuwe Road, your Committee interacted with the Chipata Municipal Council Procurement Committee as well as the Eastern Province Procurement Committee. Your Committee learnt that the procurement of works on this project was centrally done, in Lusaka, because it was above the permissible threshold of the provincial procurement committee. Your Committee was also informed that the project had taken long to be completed while the quality of work in some portions was not to the satisfaction of the regional engineer.

Mr Speaker, in order to verify these assertions, your Committee undertook a site visit of the road in the company of the contractor, consultant and engineers from the province and council. Your Committee also had the opportunity to travel the whole stretch of the road from Chipata to Mfuwe, which is about 104 km, of which only about 35 km had been resurfaced in the last two years. In a nutshell, your Committee was not satisfied with the quality of works on some portions of the road as well as the slow pace at which works were progressing. Your Committee was also discontented at the level of supervision by the consultant and regional engineers, given that they had approved works they themselves had complained about.

Mr Speaker, after its tours, your Committee had the opportunity to interact with the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication over this road. The hon. Minister was candid enough to inform your Committee that the Chipata/Mfuwe Road had suffered delays as well as poor quality works owing to the manner in which the contract was awarded. Due to political influence, the contract overlooked a number of aspects in the initial bill of quantities. As a result, the contractor has had to ask for a number of variations which have inevitably delayed the project and increased the cost of working on the road. The Government could, however, not terminate the contract because the process of engaging another contractor was cumbersome and very long, ultimately leading to the loss of time and incurring other overhead costs.

Mr Speaker, I stated earlier that transparency in the awarding of contracts is critical in underwriting the avoidance of public sector corruption. The happenings on the Chipata/Mfuwe Road are unfortunate because they have deprived the people living along that area the pleasure of traveling on a good road, as well as tourists who may wish to visit the South Luangwa National Park. Let me urge the Government to ensure that this road is completed on schedule, without any further delays. May I also urge the Government and politicians in general to desist from influencing the awarding of contracts as this puts public officials in awkward positions, whereby they become compromised for fear of reprisals or dismissals.

In conclusion, I wish, on behalf of the Committee, to thank you, Mr Speaker, for your guidance throughout this session. Gratitude is also extended to the stakeholders who made both oral and written submissions, which assisted your Committee to make informed decisions. Lastly, I would like to thank the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for all the services rendered to your Committee throughout its deliberations.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr M. Malama: Now, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion on the Floor of the House to adopt the report of your Committee for the First Session of the Eleventh National Assembly. As it has been highlighted by the Chairperson, your Committee undertook an in-depth study of corruption in the public procurement of goods and services. I am sure the House will agree with me that during the reign of the United National Independence Party (UNIP) Government, under the leadership of Dr Kenneth Kaunda, corruption in the country was almost unheard of. Society generally frowned on it and public workers detested it.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr M. Malama: Mr Speaker, corruption in the country, now, is like a cancer which is malignant. Due to it, the Government loses huge financial resources that are meant for alleviating poverty and disease among our people. Corruption has eroded values amongst citizens of our country, in general, to the extent that they have completely lost trust in Government departments and institutions that offer public services. The question that begs an answer …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The consultations on my left are rather on the loud side. May we, please, consult moderately.

The hon. Member may proceed.

Mr M. Malama: … is: What can be done to cure this cancer, particularly, in the process of procuring public goods and services?

Your Committee has made a number of recommendations in its report. Allow me, however, to highlight just a few. Firstly, I would like to draw the attention of the Government to the urgent need to have well trained procurement officers to handle procurements in all procuring entities. This should also extend to controlling officers, who play a critical role in the process. A lot of corruption takes place during the procurement process, but it goes unnoticed because of the lack of skilled officers required to detect it.

May I, therefore, urge the ZPPA to ensure that procurement entities have, among their staff, trained procurement officials as required by the Public Procurement Act. The ZPPA should not limit its operations to Lusaka and other urban areas alone. It should extend to districts such as Petauke and Mambwe, which your Committee visited when it discovered that there was a great need for training and orientation in matters of procurements.

Sir, secondly, there is a need by the Government to ensure that the law relating to procurement is strictly enforced to avoid acts of corruption. For example, Section 26 (b) of the Public Procurement Act provides that:

“Where open international bidding is used, a foreign bidder shall partner with a citizen or local supplier or bidder.”

In reality, Mr Speaker, local suppliers or bidders are completely precluded where open international bidding is used. This is contrary to the law and it demoralises local suppliers resulting in some of them engaging in corruption so that, perhaps, they can be given some business in the procurement cycle.

Mr Speaker, I wish to urge the ZPPA to ensure that Section 26(b) of the Public Procurement Act is strictly enforced whenever open international bidding is used. This will, in turn, build capacity in the locals and enable them competitively participate in such bidding and, consequently, reduce incidences of corruption in the procurement cycle.

Lastly, Mr Speaker, your Committee was informed, during its deliberations, that procurement processes for big capital projects such as construction of roads is cumbersome. As a result, there is a huge time lapse from the time tenders are issued and when contracts are finally awarded. Because of this, the process is, more often than not, open to manipulation and corruption. In view of this state of affairs, I wish to urge the Government to review the procurement procedures with a view of making them shorter so that the Government can achieve economy and efficiency in contract awarding and implementation as well as obtain value for money. This, however, should not be done at the expense of the quality in the works of the roads to be procured.

Mr Speaker, with these few remarks, I beg to second the Motion.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, this will be my shortest submission to allow others to contribute to the debate on this Motion. I support the report of your Committee. I want to deal with one aspect of this report and this is the issue of corruption.

Mr Speaker, I agree with your Committee that corruption is a serious problem in our country and, generally, in Africa. We are failing to deal with this scourge which has been growing over a number of years in this country.

Sir, I will give a different view from your Committee’s report by stating that corruption has been systematically growing, I think, from as far back as the 1980s. I remember that at the dawn of multi-partism, in 1991 − the message at that time is very alive in my mind − the campaign was premised on the fact that the UNIP regime had to go because it was corrupt. If hon. Members want to be reminded, I can actually take them to the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) Studios and show them some of the campaign materials of the MMD then. The UNIP Government was not only de-campaigned on the basis of not upholding democracy, but also that the regime was corrupt. So, corruption has been in this country for long and has been systematically entrenched.

I remember, Mr Speaker, in the 1980s and early 1990s, people were not aware of this scourge of corruption, but are now beginning to be aware of its dangers. Otherwise, corruption in this country started a long time ago but, of course, it has been growing in magnitude over the years. So, I just want to make that small correction that there was corruption during the UNIP era, for the sake of your Committee, especially towards the end of its administration, and there is enough evidence to show. In fact, there are also some officers that were prosecuted during that time.

Sir, the ACC was established in the 1980s. I remember, as a pupil, at St Canisius Technical Secondary School, the ACC came to make a presentation. Allow me to refer you to a statement that was made by one brilliant pupil. He said that the ACC made a presentation to the effect that it worked with the police to fight corruption, but he begged them to be serious citing that if they worked with the police, then, they were not fighting corruption. This was because, according to him, the police were the most corrupt.

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: So, I think, the ACC representatives were thrown off balance. There was a serious problem because the institutions that were being used to fight corruption were corrupt.

Mr Speaker, the fight against corruption will not easily be won if we do not really discuss it. As I always say, all parties here, the MMD, Patriotic Front (PF) and United Party for National Development (UPND), stand against corruption. However, what is missing is how to get rid of it. That is the missing link. How to fight corruption is a million dollar question. We are not answering this question. For instance, while we talk about employment creation, no one is saying how jobs can be created and the same applies to corruption.

The ACC, Sir, by and large, deals with the causes and not symptoms. Most of the times, it has dealt with people that have been found with cases of corruption. Now, the symptoms are not being addressed. Corruption in this country is a reflection of the degraded morals and values in our society. We must deal with the symptoms. Otherwise, we will not win this war. The issues of integrity must come back. Otherwise, the ACC, so far, if you read in the newspapers, is dealing with those people who are corrupt. What about those who are planning to be corrupt or are corrupt in their minds, who, tomorrow, will be the next set of corrupt people? Therefore, we have to go to the fundamentals. Let us look at the values, morals and integrity and inculcate these in our children and leaders.

Mr Speaker, it is almost impossible for a leader of integrity to even run a business. This is because there is a thin line between doing what is right and being corrupt. It is very difficult to run a business without falling into corruption and patronism.

So, let us go back to the basics. The ACC must also be capacitated to deal with education on corruption in our schools and inculcate these very important values. I thought I must make this point that the question of how to deal with corruption has not been answered in this country. We need a properly funded ACC to deal with the symptoms and, of course, invest in educating the officers working for this wing. However, above all, let us have integrity in our lives and this should start with leaders. It is a question of making a decision. As leaders, stand up and say, “Listen, as a leader, I will not run a business because I will easily be compromised.” When you become a leader, you have to make a choice. You cannot have it both ways. You cannot want to be rich and a leader at the same time. You have to be ready to serve the people if you want to be a leader.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Hamududu: It is very true.

In conclusion, Sir, those leaders …

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Hamududu: I know why you are saying that. You are my colleagues. If you are getting into bidding, you will very soon be caught up in corruption. I want to warn my PF colleagues to, please, stay away from businesses and just serve the people. Otherwise, you will, very soon, be finding yourselves getting favours from officials because you are Ruling Party members and so on and so forth. These are the issues we must deal with.

Mr Speaker, the UNIP era was condemned and was dethroned because of corruption. The MMD was removed from power because of corruption. The next round will be a campaign against the PF to be removed because of corruption. You must go back to the fundamentals. If you do not do that, some people will be found wanting for corruption. We are already hearing of some issues in oil procurement at the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) and names are popping up. There is no smoke without fire.

With these few words, I support the report of your Committee.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Speaker, thank you so much for giving me this opportunity to also just make a few comments on the report of your Committee.

Mr Speaker, procurement activities are important in ensuring that development is taken into all the corners of our country. Therefore, it is very important to support the recommendations in your report that we need to re-look at the Public Procurement Act. It is, indeed, frustrating to see that development cannot be taken to certain areas because of the hurdles that we have in our procurement systems.

Mr Speaker, the Government would want to develop the road sector and other infrastructure, but because of the hurdles that are found in the procurement system, it becomes very difficult. The reason it is easy for corruption to find its way in the procurement system is because of the arrangement. The arrangement of the procurement system makes it so tedious and difficult that people are prompted to engage in corruption so that certain things can move. This is not supposed to be the case.

Mr Speaker, we are not supposed to process all our procurements for our provinces through the central offices. We must have capacity, in our provinces, for example, to have procurement units which should deal with the procurement services for projects. All the Government just needs is to make sure that it builds capacity in the procurement offices and the line departments. You need to have engineers to help these people in designing and coming up with estimates which the procurement units can use to source for services.

Mr Speaker, we need to urgently deal with this issue of procurement. If people are to notice that we are making any impact, it is key that we do so. Therefore, my humble appeal to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is to ensure that this Act is worked on, like yesterday, because we cannot wait any longer. I know how my colleague, the hon. Minister of Muchinga Province, has been struggling to get certain things done as a result of the hurdles that he faces with the ZPPA.

Mr Speaker, I was also taken aback by the comments of the seconder of the Motion when he made comparisons of corruption levels. Indeed, we need to take an introspective look at ourselves as regards where we went wrong and at what point. That way, we can come up with the way forward for the nation.

Mr Speaker, without taking too much of time of my colleagues who also want to contribute to the debate on your report, I would like to end with an appeal to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to ensure that he brings the Bill to this House so that we can do justice to it. We want to ensure that we start developing this nation, particularly that, as a new Government, we cannot wait and allow people to stand in our way in our quest to develop the nation, as we promised the people.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, I will not take long because most of the points have already been discussed. One issue I would like to discuss is the Chipata/Mfuwe Road, on which I must declare interest. Our problem in Zambia is the late completion of projects.

Sir, the project to tar this road, for which I have declared interest, started in 1973. You can see that, roughly, forty years have passed and nothing has happened. I think that the disease that we suffer from, in Zambia, is that of late completion of projects and it is high time that we cured it. Thus far, only 35 km of the 104 km have been tarred. By now, the tarring of that road should have been completed. That should not be allowed at all. This leads to the political interference already discussed by the mover or the seconder of the Motion.

Sir, I think that there is too much political interference and that is why we have these ills in the construction sector. The interference starts with registration to the awarding of contracts and their supervision. There is too much interference. It is high time we had a new culture and let experts, the engineers, planners and all those involved, handle this. Once we do that, we will forget about all these things. I think it is just a matter of adopting this new culture.

Mr Speaker, I was happy to learn about the court case involving the Engineering Institution of Zambia (EIZ) and a Chinese contractor in Maamba. That is very good. However, I will not go further in discussing the matter because doing so would be subjudice. I think that, as politicians, we should encourage these players to really clean up the system.

Mr Speaker, these are the few words that I wanted to say.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chilangwa (Kawambwa): Mr Speaker, in supporting the report, which has been well tabled by your Committee, I just want to comment on a few things on page 16 and 17 of your Committee’s report.

Mr Speaker, the contractor on the road projects in Chipata and on the Chipata/Mfuwe Road is Messrs Sable Transport. It is very worrying that, on the Chipata Road, this company has now worked thirty months out of the contract period of forty months and has only worked on 36 km of the road project. How on earth it will be able to finish the remaining works in ten months is a wonder.

Mr Speaker, what are the criteria used which insist on awarding contracts to contractors who are not performing? It is evident that this contractor does not perform. He took forever to finish working on the Luwingu Road. As we speak, he has been on the road that leads to Lundazi from Chipata for the last couple of years. The road is 174 km and this contractor is not performing. What is the criterion that was used to keep on awarding contracts to this contractor? Are there any reasons that we do not know of why somebody, who has a project from Chipata to Lundazi, which he has failed to complete, would be lumped with another project to work on roads in Chipata? As though that is not enough, you go ahead and give him another road project, the Chipata/Mfuwe Road, which is in addition to the Mporokoso projects. This contractor does not perform.

Mr Kalaba: Sidney!

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, in addition to everything that other speakers have said, it will be very important that the Government gets to the bottom of these contracts which were being given left, right and centre to this contractor. This contractor is taking us backwards. At what stage does the Government blacklist contractors? If he took long to finish certain projects and the quality of work was excellent, that would be different. However, we are being told that wherever he has been, the quality of work is extremely poor.

Currently, Sir, this contractor has done shoddy works on the road project in Mporokoso. The works on the Chipata roads is poorly done. Unfortunately, for the Lundazi roads, the works are even worse because there are no road signs to show that there is, for example, a deviation. There are heaps and heaps of sand or gravel left on the road without care.

Mr Speaker, last week, the hon. Deputy Minister of Defence was stuck on the road with his convoy when he went to Lundazi to inspect some road projects. They were stuck for hours because of the poor workmanship of this contractor.

Sir, I would like to urge the Government to ensure that it immediately reviews all the contracts given to this contractor.

With those few words, I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate the Motion on the Floor of the House.

Sir, allow me to begin my deliberations by congratulating the hon. Member of Parliament for Livingstone who deservedly won by an unpredictable landslide, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: … even amidst a lot of abuse of taxpayers’ money in order that the PF could win the seat.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, allow me to also congratulate the Member of Parliament for Muchinga, Hon. Kunda, on his deserved victory even against media reports that were almost suggesting to the contrary. I would like to congratulate him and the MMD. This shows that the people of this country should not be taken for granted.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Sir, allow me to also congratulate …

Mr V. Mwale: Aaa! Iyayi baja!

Laughter

Mr Mweetwa: … Mr January Zimba, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chama North, on his deserved victory, although I should say that particular by-election was totally unnecessary.

Sir, coming to the Motion, I want to state that I will, in the preliminary deliberations, concern myself …

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I rise on a serious point of order. Is the hon. Member debating in order to insinuate that the by-election in Chama North, which was won by my dear brother, here, was unnecessary when he knows very well that this matter was before the courts of law and judgment was passed?

I seek your serious ruling, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The serious ruling is that, in this House, there is freedom of speech and freedom to hold opinion.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: He is entitled to that opinion.

Could the hon. Member proceed.

Interruptions

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for your guidance.

Sir, I was just saying that I would like to concern myself with the law governing public procurement in Zambia since we are talking about corruption in the public sector.

Mr Speaker, from the outset, allow me to state that the Public Procurement Act No. 12 of 2008, is generally weak, thus, providing fertile ground for corruption and manipulation by a sitting government, such as the PF Government.

Sir, the Public Procurement Act provides for the ZPPA Board to supervise the workings around procurement issues in the country. As has been referred to by the Chairperson of your Committee, the board is chaired by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning and is also composed of generally, presidential appointees; a number of them being ministers.

Sir, it is my opinion that where a government has a president who appoints his uncle as Minister of Finance and National Planning, appoints his nephew as the deputy and appoints a Secretary to the Treasury who is a brother in marriage, you fortify …

Mr Kalaba: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, the rules of this House are that you do not make insinuations. The hon. Member who is, currently, debating is making insinuations which he cannot substantiate. Is he in order to accuse the President in that manner without validating his accusations?

I seek your serious ruling.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The serious ruling is that the hon. Member on the Floor should ensure that, as he debates, he avoids making statements that are not backed by facts. However, as it is, no facts have been laid as to which hon. Member is related to who and how.

Could the hon. Member continue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, where you have the board that is composed of presidential appointees, you have a situation where those appointees are, more likely than not, going to serve the interests of the appointing authority. Where the appointing authority has an interest to serve in a procurement transaction, there is room for that particular interest of the appointing authority to be taken into account by the board.

Sir, this creates a monopoly of power in the procurement process which is fertile ground for the promotion of corruption because, as has been defined by some scholars, corruption equals monopoly plus discretion minus accountability. Where you have a board that is largely accountable to one person, the checks and balances are in question.

Mr Speaker, my statements are backed on Page 11 of the report, item 10(g). Therefore, what would be the use of such kind of a board that is served by presidential appointees? There can only be one conclusion. By and large, it is to rubber-stamp the interests of the appointing authority.

Sir, there are also procurement committees that the Public Procurement Act No. 12 of 2008 provides for. These are chaired by Permanent Secretaries, some of who sit on the ZPPA Board. Further, these Permanent Secretaries, who are controlling officers, have the powers to appoint members of the Procurement Committees.

Mr Speaker, the independence of these appointees is highly questionable because, as we have seen in this country, many of the appointments are not based on professionalism or merit, but on partisan or other interests. This is a fact which has been brought to this House and justified.

Sir, allow me to also talk about some of the provisions in the Public Procurement Act. In particular, I want to draw your attention to Section 75 of the Public Procurement Act No. 12 of 2008 which deals with offences that one can commit within the procurement cycle. My interest there is the liability that attends to a person who has breached the law of procedure and regulations in procurement transactions.

Mr Speaker, under Section 75, the penalty for the nature of the offences that are created there is, by and large, administrative in nature. There is no criminal offence created or penal retribution that would attend to a person who has breached the Procurement Act. The law that is applicable for a person who is found liable is what is provided for in the conditions of service of such a public officer. For many of such conditions, the final or most stringent penalty is dismissal, yet huge sums of taxpayers’ money would have been lost. I would suggest that the Public Procurement Act be amended in this regard to provide for punishment that is penal in nature so that there is deterrence and retribution in order that people will know, in advance, what awaits them if they breach the law.

Mr Speaker, under Section 77 that deals with the general offences relating to public procurement, one who is found liable of breaching the law in question is liable to a fine of 500,000 penalty units. Therefore, there is no immediate measure of deterrence and retribution. There is a temptation here for one to breach this particular law because they know that the penalty is bearable.

Mr Speaker, in this regard, one may also draw the attention of the Anti-Corruption Act provisions, wherein, there is a clause on the abuse of public of authority of office which would be envisaged to take care of the shortcomings of the Public Procurement Act. Even where such is provided in the Anti-Corruption Act, the governing Act, which is the Public Procurement Act, No. 12 of 2008, provides and creates offences and penalties. This creates bottlenecks when it comes to the ACC trying to oversee and follow up issues of breaching the Public Procurement Act because there are offences created and penalties provided for in the transactions that are governed by the Public Procurement Act. So, you will find that this creates bottlenecks for the ACC to bring in their law and apply it when the transaction was conducted under another Act. In this regard, I would like to suggest that the Public Procurement Act be in harmony with the Anti-Corruption Act.

Sir, I would also like to touch on one or two issues regarding the Public Procurement Act. I would like to look at the interpretation clause. In this regard, I have noted that some of the definitions that are critical to finding liability to an officer have been left loose. For instance, whereas the law provides that where a relative is involved in a tender, a person sitting on the procurement committee should declare interest and, therefore, not participate in the proceedings. In this particular Act, relative is limited to parent, spouse, uncle, children, niece and a child of a spouse. A person such as a grandfather is excluded from the definition as a relative. Where a grandfather has a tender and the grandchild is sitting on that procurement committee, there is no conflict of interest, according to the Public Procurement Act. Therefore, this requires to be looked into. There are many examples where a friend or an associate is not included and this also involves a girlfriend or boyfriend. These are issues where conflict of interest should come into play.

Mr Speaker, there is also the question of a definition of a public officer which is very loose. That is a person holding or acting in any public office. Some of the very critical key decision-making positions in the Government, such as hon. Members of Parliament, Ministers and Judges, are excluded from being defined as public officers in terms of the Public Procurement Act. I am actually also aware that the Constitution precludes them as such.

Mr Speaker, if I may add, this is also a similar situation with the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) Act, wherein, paragraph 8 of the schedule, defines employees of the FRA not to be public officers, but they are carrying out public functions. I would also suggest that that particular FRA Act should also be brought in harmony with the relevant Act, especially the Anti-Corruption Act so that the fight against corruption could be assisted.

Mr Speaker, other areas of concern that promote corruption in public procurement include poor conditions of service of public workers, especially procurement staff and law enforcing agencies. We were expecting that, by now, some of these things would have already been dealt with, especially that our colleagues, the PF, came on the backdrop of serious promises that the people of this country were going to have more money in their pockets. What we have seen, this far, and it is a matter of fact, is that there has been a reduction of money in people’s pockets.

Interruptions

Mr Mweetwa: Sir, for instance, some of the allowances that civil servants were entitled to, such as the graduate retention allowance have been scrapped. Transport allowance and housing allowance have been reduced. Is this what they meant by more money in the pockets?

Interruptions

Hon. UPND Member: Masholi!

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, these are some of the things that are promoting corruption and stand contradictory to the self-proclaimed allergy to corruption by the PF and their leader.

Sir, the other area of interest is that of unplanned and hasty reshuffles of controlling officers. Many witnesses, who make submissions to the Public Accounts Committee meetings, especially, controlling officers, always have an excuse of, “I was not in that position at the time.” I think the question of reshuffling controlling officers anyhow is contributing to the promotion of corruption.

Sir, we have also seen a growing tendency among civil servants that once they carry out public work, they still expect something to be given to them by the person seeking that particular service. Therefore, the attitude by our civil servants has to be checked to ensure that they know that they are there to serve the public and not to be paid for providing a particular service. However, this is being promoted, in certain instances, because of poor conditions of service and low levels of integrity by their supervisors.

Mr Speaker, the other area I would like to talk about is the appointment of incompetent people in critical positions such as those to do with the procurement cycle. Like I have mentioned, when you have a board that is by and large composed of Presidential appointees and the procurement committees that are also appointed by the Permanent Secretaries, you will find that the criteria of appointing these people is not clear. One can speculate that people could be appointed based on partisan affiliation. If that be the case, you will find that professionalism is gravely undermined because the people are just appointed on the basis of being Presidential appointees. What expertise do they have to deal with matters of procurement? This leaves room for corruption to thrive within the procurement cycle.

Mr Speaker we have seen that the point that I have just made also has to do with the element of good governance. In the case where there is a poor governance record, as in the case of the PF Administration, it is very clear that cadres are being employed in the Civil Service, instead of professional civil servants. This undermines and erodes the confidence of those professionals who are well-vested with the procurement procedures. Furthermore, when they are being supervised by incompetent people, who are obtaining positions by virtue of political affiliation, it also brings about dissatisfaction and discontent in being supervised.

Interruptions

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, finally, we have also noted that one of the areas that promotes corruption, in the procurement cycle, is nepotism. We have seen a growing culture in which the PF administration is turning a family tree into a family forest. People are being appointed …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: … on the basis of being relatives of the President or those who are in the PF Government. If this tendency continues, the allergy to corruption that the leader of the PF, His Excellency the President, Mr Micheal Sata, professed will not take root.

With those few words, I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr S. S. Zulu: Mr Speaker, I have listened to the debate and I wish to sincerely thank your Committee for a very good report, which we support. My ministry deals with good governance and the recommendations and observations of this report, if implemented, will result in a reduction of corruption. I have carefully listened to the challenges that the Committee has cited and the recommendations it has made with respect to the ACC. Some of the challenges cited include those relating to the ZPPA and the composition of its board. The report has also referred to the challenges relating to the composition of the Central Tender Committee, the single-sourcing of contracts, as opposed to open tender, in the award of contracts for construction of roads, in particular, and the cumbersome procurement procedures. The Government will seriously consider the comments and recommendations in your report and take corrective measures in order to adhere to the policy of zero tolerance to corruption of the PF. This is a very good report which we shall study and implement.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker I would like to thank all the debaters who have positively contributed in support of your report. I would like to urge the Government to seriously take the concerns which have been raised in the report and by the debaters.

With these words, I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.
ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!−

(Debate adjourned)
_______

The House adjourned at 1812 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 11th July, 2012.

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