Friday, 17th February, 2023

Friday, 17^thFebruary, 2023

The House met at 0900 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMNT BY MADAM SPEAKER

SEMINAR ON THE ROLE OF PARLIAMENTARIANS IN IMPROVING WOMEN, CHILDREN AND ADOLESCENT HEALTH

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I inform the House that the Population Council of Zambia in conjunction with the World Health Organisation (WHO) and the Partnership for Maternal, New-born’s and Child Health has been authorised to hold a half day seminar for all hon. Members. The seminar will be held on Wednesday, 22^nd February, 2023, under the theme “The role of Parliamentarians in Improving Women, Children and Adolescents’ Health, Including Nutrition”. The seminar will be held in the auditorium, here at Main Parliament Buildings, starting at 0830 hours. All hon. Members are requested to attend the seminar and to observe punctuality.

I thank you.

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BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I inform the House that the House Business Committee met on Thursday, 9^thFebruary, 2023, to determine and schedule Business of the House for the period 21^stFebruary to 3^rd March, 2023. Accordingly, your Committee resolved to lay before the House the following business for consideration:

Announcements

The Hon. Madam Speaker may make an announcement to the House on any day when it is necessary to do so.

Rulings

The Hon. Madam Speaker may render rulings, if there will be any.

The President’s Address

His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia will, on Friday, 24^thFebruary, 2023, address the House on the progress made in the application of the national values and principles contained in the Constitution.

Ministerial Statements

The ministerial statements hereunder will be rendered. Any other ministerial statement of urgent situation may also be rendered, but for now, the Vice-President will issue a statement on the subject matter about trucks marooned on the Kitwe/Chingola Dual Carriageway between Chambeshi and Chingola. This will be issued on 21^st February, 2023. The hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development will also issue a ministerial statement on the status of contracts for rehabilitation of feeder roads, countrywide. This will be on 22^nd February, 2023.

Motions

The following hon. Members will present Motions during the period:

Her Honour the Vice-President will move a Motion on the Suspension of Standing Orders on 23^rdFebruary, 2023;
There will be a Motion of Thanks that will be moved on 28^th February, 2023;
Mr S. Chanda will move a Motion to promote countrywide breeding of niloticus tilapia. This will be on 22^ndFebruary, 2023; and
Mr C. Kang’ombe will move a Motion on transforming Zambia into a twenty-fourhour economy. This will be on 1^stMarch, 2023;

Bills

The Bills listed hereunder will be considered:

The Zambia Qualifications Authority Bill, 2022. This will be at the Second Reading stage and the date for consideration is yet to be determined; and
The Anti-Terrorism and Non-Proliferation (Amendment) Bill, 2022 will also come for Second Reading. The date for consideration will be determined later;

Parliamentary Committee Reports

The following Committee reports will be considered during the period:

Report of the Committee on Agriculture, Lands and Natural Resources on the Proposal for Zambia’s Accession to the Membership of the Global Green Growth Institute. This will be considered on 21^stFebruary, 2023; and

Report of the Zambian Delegation to the Pan African Parliament (PAP) for the meetings held during the First Session of the Sixth Pan African Parliament held from 24^thOctober to 9^thDecember, 2022. This will be considered on 23^rd February, 2023.

Questions

The hon. Ministers will respond to thirty-two Questions for Oral Answer, as set out hereunder during the same period. The details of the questions are contained in this statement, which will be circulated to all hon. Members and other stakeholders. Due to the number of questions, this will be circulated.

Madam Speaker, on behalf of the House Business Committee and in accordance withStanding Order 189 (5) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021, I havethe pleasure to present the business for the next two weeks to this august House.

I thank you, Madam.

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MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

MR KAPYANGA, HON. MEMBER FOR MPIKA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HEALTH, MRS MASEBO, ON DRUGS AND EQUIPMENT BEING STOLEN FROM ZAMMSA WAREHOUSE

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Madam Speaker, on a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, thank you so much for according me this opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam Speaker, yesterday, the Board Chairperson for Zambia Medicines and Medical Supplies Agency (ZAMMSA), Ms Anna Chifungula, announced to the nation that medical equipment and drugs worth millions of Kwacha had been stolen from the ZAMMSA warehouse. This is coming at a time when the nation is grappling with shortages of medicines and medical equipment.

Madam Speaker, I, therefore, direct this matter of urgent public importance at the hon. Minister of Health.

Madam Speaker, the nation deserves to know how thieves accessed a highly secured warehouse were medicines for our patients are kept. How was it possible for thieves to access this warehouse and steal millions worth of medical equipment and drugs?

Madam Speaker, I seek your very serious guidance on this matter.

Madam Speaker: Do you have the statement?When was the statement made? Was it yesterday?

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Alright, I understand the statement was made on the news. The hon. Minister of Health is not here, but there is the acting hon. Minister.

The Minister of Labour and Social Security (Ms Tambatamba) (on behalf of the Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo)): Madam Speaker, we will make a statement next week on an assigned date from your office.

Madam Speaker: So, on Thursday next, the statement can be made.

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THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Madam Speaker: The hon. Leader of Government – It is the Leader of the Opposition, sorry.

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, I receive that in Jesus’ name.

Rev. Katuta: Amen!

Mr Mundubile: Good morning and welcome to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, the Chief Justice of Kenya once said, “The greatness of a nation lies in its fidelity to the constitution.” A Constitution contains safeguards and watchdog bodies like the Auditor-General’s Office to help keep the Government in check.

Madam Speaker, recently, two senior officers from the Auditor-General’s office were either dismissed or transferred in very suspicious circumstances. This move brings into question the commitment of Her Honour the Vice-President’s Government towards transparency and accountability in the face of the issues of cancelled hunting licences and procurement of fertiliser, among others.

Madam Speaker, my question, therefore, to Her Honour the Vice-President, is: How will her Government build confidence in the Zambian people and co-operating partners insofar as accountability and transparency are concerned, especially that this move has been made at a time that the audit report that is expected covers the period under which the United Party for National Development (UPND) has been in charge of governance?

The Vice-President(Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member, who is the Leader of the Opposition and not the Government because natwikalapo kale.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: I do not why the hon. Leader of the Opposition is always saying thank you, but I thought he was targeting the presidency.

Laughter

The Vice-President: He is looking for anything.

Laughter

The Vice-President:Madam Speaker, the hon. Member asked how the Government would build confidence in the Zambian people and co-operating partners. Of course, he was very political in his questioning because he ran all over the place about many things that have been going on, according his perception.

Madam Speaker, the issue of suspending and transferring people, if any, is actually one of the things that should make the Zambian people confident that the Government is doing the right thing.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Hon. Colleagues, you cannot just sit when there is something that you feel is suspicious, and neither can you go out, in the name of transparency, to start making allegations become real.

Madam Speaker, at this level, when people are moved, there could be allegations. Therefore, the Government has a duty to prove those allegations before they are made public, if that is what the hon. Member calls transparency. So, this Government is working within procedures.

So, if there is an issue, you put people aside or they work from other offices so that there is no interference in the evidence. This is what you do, and not to go to court flying a flag, you (pointing at Mr Mundubile).

Mr Chaatila:Bayopachani?

The Vice-President: You first move andwhen one is found innocent, he or she goes back. That is what it is. Every person is presumed innocent. That is the fidelity to the Constitution.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, fraternal greetings from Nalolo to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, on 12^th October, last year, we moved a Motion, which I seconded. It was moved by Hon. Sunday Chanda and was in regard to conditions of service for councillors. I think we are now over four months down the line, and the Jesuit Centre for Theological Reflection (JSTR) announced that the cost of living has increased. For five people, it is now about K9,000.

Madam Speaker, what is the delay in the remuneration commission effecting the change in the conditions of service or allowances for councillors around the country? Further, the people of Nalolo are still waiting for the promised visit by Her Honour the Vice-President.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Nalolo, and receive the fraternal greetings. I also send greetings and assure the people of Nalolo that we will be there one day. We will visit Nalolo.

Madam Speaker, the question is that a Motion was passed in this House on 12^th October, last year, on the conditions of service for councillors;so, what is the delay? I think that we may not talk of a delay. The fact is that this Motion was passed, but there was no date fixed for its implementation. However, this House accepted that there was a need to look at the conditions of service.

Madam Speaker, we may not talk of delay because there was no fixed date. Delayed from which day? So, when we pass Motions in this House, it is important that we look at what exactly we are talking about. After all, the Budget was passed by this House, including the hon. Member for Nalolo. The Emoluments Commission will continue to work because its task cannot be completed in a day, as the commission will look at the entire nation. So, we have to continue to wait and pray that something will, indeed, be done for councillors.

I thank you, Madam Speaker

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to interact with Her Honour the Vice-President.

Happy New Year to you, Your Honour the Vice-President. My mother, the ...

Laughter

Mr Kafwaya: ...internal audit function of the Republic of Zambia is subject to direction by the Secretary to the Treasury, according to the Public Finance Management Act of 2018. So, the Special Audit Report written in 2019, which is the basis for the transfer of senior members of staff from the Ministry of Finance and the Auditor General’s Office, is illegal because it was not sanctioned by the Secretary to the Treasury. The transfer of those people is also arbitrary because there is no law or Government procedure that provides for the transfer of individuals who are under investigation.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, why is there so much affinity to abrogate the law in the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government like we have seen in this case and in the illegal contraction of audits by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning?

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Lunte, and I do acknowledge that he is my son.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member has raised many things in his question. Further, I will answer his question generally because I may not have read the pieces of legislation that he has referred to.

Madams Speaker, if the Acts the hon. Member is quoting imply exactly what he is saying, then, I think that those Acts are worth looking at because one cannot start binding –

Madam Speaker, maybe, let me talk about the illegality of the audit. I am not privy to that illegality because the document that we have was done within the law and we debated these issues in this House. Therefore, if the hon. Member is saying that there are laws that hinder the Government from transferring people and that it has to do that in a special way, I may not respond to that. The issue, generally, is that there is no person working in an institution of the Government who cannot be moved to another institution.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: However, I am also saying that I may not have read. So, maybe, the hon. Member can come to the office and help me to read through that document so that we can have clarity.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Yes, so that I can understand. I need to understand whether there is a law that stops the Government from transferring people like that. Otherwise, as far as we know, every Government worker is transferable. Otherwise, as far as we know, every Government worker is transferable. Further, the hon. Member is talking about transfers, but I do not know who has gone where and other details.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Please, let us listen to the answers.

Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving the people of Kabwe Central an opportunity to ask a question to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, once said that a hungry person cannot make a good political decision. In that regard, late last year and this year, the people of Kabwe have been really stressed because, suddenly, the prices of mealie meal went up and there was a shortage of mealie meal. I understand that Zambia is a liberalised economy and that the private millers have choices, and their main aim is to increase their profitability. Therefore, we cannot control them fully. Therefore, does our Government, the New Dawn Government, have any plans to capacitate the Zambia National Service (ZNS) and the Zambia Correctional Service to procure more milling plants so that is increased production of mealie meal? That way, we will be able to control the price of mealie meal.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kabwe Central for this question. Indeed, we all agree with the President that a hungry person cannot make a good political decision.

Madam Speaker, basically, the hon. Member is saying that millers are business people, and that being in business means that they need to make profit. She also states that, sometimes, they seek profits beyond what they need to make. I think, we have to agree with that. Further, she asks when the Government is going to capacitate the Zambia National Service (ZNS) and the Zambia Correctional Service (ZCS) by providing them with milling equipment in order for us to bring the prices of mealie meal down.

Madam Speaker, this Government believes in the private sector being the engine of our development.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: So, firstly, we will not crowd out the millers because they have the right to survive.

Hon. Government Members: Correct!

The Vice-President: It should not be our intention to drive the millers out of business. However, we have to know which millers are reasonable. That is very important. We have to know particularly the millers who access subsidised maize; maize that has been produced at a high cost to the people of Zambia, yet still go on to make the profit mark-up that the hon. Member is talking about. I think, those people should be left to be handled by their colleagues in the private sector. However, for the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) food; food that Zambians produce, it is important to agree with the millers who may help to keep the prices of mealie meal in control. Profit can be made, but it should be within margins that are acceptable.

Madam Speaker, as regards the ZNS, I am sure, the hon. Member knows that about two weeks ago, a milling company was commissioned in Chongwe, here, in Lusaka. That company is actually under the ZNS, and we pray that will help. We also have other milling companies under the ZNS in Mpika and Monze, which are very big. Those companies are working ethically because they do not need to make profits that are abnormal. The hon. Member will recall that in Mpika, just about a week or two ago, people started selling roller meal at K120 because they also need that mark-up. However, the mark-up should not be abnormal. So, yes, we will encourage the ZNS to also participate, but without tampering with the private sector. Similarly, private sector millers should work with us to make normal profits. Otherwise, they can procure their maize elsewhere. We will also try to ensure that those who produce maize under Government subsidy sell their maize to the FRA until we have bought enough.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I will give more opportunities to the ladies, I see they have indicated.

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the people of Lundazi this rare chance to ask Her Honour the Vice-President a question.

Madam Speaker, I want to report this morning that the people in Lundazi have had no power for more than ten days. The children in the hospital who were born prematurely are dying. Some mothers need to undergo caesarean sections and they are failing to have that done. Our businesses have come to a halt. The people of Lundazi challenged me this morning that if I was really elected by them, I should ask Her Honour the Vice-President when the Government will connect Lundazi, Chama, Chasefu and the other districts to the national grid? It is frustrating that some Zambians are celebrating that the New Dawn Government has ended load shedding, yet our people are dying. We need a good answer from Her Honour the Vice-President this morning.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Lundazi for that concern, but it is also important that hon. Members do not alarm the nation. When you say that babies are dying, there should be evidence of such. We like to talk about people dying.

Madam Speaker, in fact, I should sit down because this is becoming tedious. We are not going to continuously debate on the issue of power in Chama and Lundazi. We spent a lot of time this week listening to the hon. Minister responding to questions on how the situation of power is being handled in that area. He said that the work has begun. I also listen when I sit here. I sit here to listen to my hon. Ministers and other hon. Members of Parliament. The hon. Minister was very clear that we have begun to resolve this issue. We learnt how the power from Malawi is not consistent and dependable. The acting hon. Minister of Health is here. How can a hospital not have even a small standby generator to ensure that critical areas like nurseries are connected to power when there is an issue of power? Is that what it is? The hon. Minister is listening. Such a situation should not be allowed. A small generator can produce power in critical parts of the hospital.

Hon. Government Members: CDF!

The Vice-President: So, let us work on that. You cannot just sit and do nothing about the situation, and thank you for reminding me. In such a critical situation, can you not get K500,000 from your money to buy a generator for a matter of life and death? However, the Government is working hard, but it cannot solve this issue overnight. The programme has already begun under the Ministry of Energy to ensure that those areas are connected to the national grid. I remember people kept arguing about the twenty-four months, but the Government is doing something about that issue.

Hon. Member for Lundazi, the work to connect the areas to the national grid is in the process, but in the meantime, critical as the situation is, do something. We will all support you. Get a little money and procure a generator to ensure that critical parts of the hospital continue to run even when power goes.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mrs Sabao (Chikankata): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Chikankata an opportunity to ask Her Honour the Vice-President a question.

Madam Speaker, the good people of Chikankata want to know the short-term and long-term measures the Government is putting in place to address flash floods in this country and other climatic changes that have brought challenges to this country.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chikankata for that concern. I think it is a concern for everybody particularly this year when we have had unprecedented rains in the country and a lot of devastation. It is important to ask what the Government is doing to mitigate the situation, and in the long-term, stop the flash floods.

Madam Speaker, the Government is taking this issue very seriously. There has been a directive to re-design the water harvesting points. The water can be destructive but it can also benefit us. Therefore, the President has guided the different ministries that have to do with water to find designs of how we can capture the water and use it at the right time. This is a huge issue for the Government, and it has been put in the forefront of all programmes because of what we have seen.

Madam Speaker, we need water and power so why should we let water run through our country and get to the oceans, particularly the Indian Ocean, without making use of it? So, in the long-term, that is what will be done. This year, we have seen the routes of the water so I think it is important that we start preparing early in the year as to how people will live when there is heavy rainfall. We may join you, Madam Speaker, in doing Kuomboka in the short-term.

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the people of Bwana Mkubwa chance to ask Her Honour the Vice-President a question.

Madam Speaker, the integrity of the Office of the Auditor-General is important to this nation. I, myself, came from the Office of the Auditor-General. In view of what transpired at the Office of the Auditor-General with the deputies, one in charge of audits, what measures have been put in place to ensure that we have a good Auditor-General’s report? We are at the height of audits in the ministries and the people affected are the cornerstone at the Office of the Auditor-General who carry out these audits. I think the work of three Committees is anchored on that report.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Bwana Mkubwa for that concern and for that question.

Madam Speaker, I will repeat what I said. What is being done, as far as I am seated here, is the right procedure. The hon. Member is concerned about the two auditors who have been moved away from the office and what will happen. Are we assured that the audit reports that are being produced will come out in the right manner? It will be a failed situation in governance if an officer becomes the office. You cannot be the only one with knowledge. Anyone of us can be replaced. What if it were death that occurred in the office? Were we going to say “bring them back to life”? No office should be left to one person.I am sure that in Government, we do not even lock offices because anybody who walks in and is given the mandate to act in that office must find all the information available to carry on.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: If you cannot find that information, it shows that the person that left is a failure and did not do the right thing.

Hon. UPND Members: Correct!

Hon. PF Members: Question!

The Vice-President: Honestly colleagues, there are always people to act. This is not the Civil Service, but just as an example: Today, the hon. Minister of Health was not in the House and there was question directed to the Minister of Health, and the acting Minister responded. This is just an example of how a government works. So, hon. Member for Bwana Mkubwa, there is always somebody to act in that position.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, it is a pleasure to have Her Honour the Vice-President with us today. Normally, when we see that our colleague, the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Relations is not here, we get worried. Ninshitwaishibaatiba boss nabaya. It is good that you are here.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Hon. Member: Apapenebabwelele?

Madam Speaker: Order! Time is running out. Can you please ask your question, hon. Member.

Mr Kampyongo: Your Honour, the Vice-President, I will use the adage you like using: “Apakomailanonde, ninshipaliubulema”. When you hear people lamenting about something, there must be a cause. I will you draw you back to the issue of the Auditor-General.

Madam Speaker, for this institution to perform its accountability functions, it largely depends on the Office of the Auditor-General. For that reason, I will cite an article in the Constitution so that we are on the same page. Article 250 (2) reads:

“The Auditor-General shall not be subject to the direction or control of a person or an authority in the performance of the functions of office.”

Why has the Government, in such a panic mode, started micro-managing the Auditor-General’s Office to the extent of halting the internal processes of that institution to capacitated itself by identifying competent professionals through interviews? Why are we taking this route for the first time?

Mr Munsanje: Why are you panicking?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu although he used a language I do not understand - “Apakomailanondo …”, he should have interpreted that.

Madam Speaker: Yes, can you stop the clock. Can we get the interpretation of what he said.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I am surprised because my mother, Her Honour the Vice-President, has used this adage before.

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: The interpretation of this adage, which she has used before, “apakomailanonde, ninshipaliubulema”, is that where there are serious lamentations about a matter, there must be a serious cause. That is the simple interpretation. Therefore, when we are complaining about the issue of the Auditor-General, the institution which we depend so much on as the Legislature, there must be a reason.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, uwakwenshaubushiku –

Interruptions

The Vice-President: As a leader, you do not allow yourself to be led from the back. Otherwise, you are not a leader. A leader is supposed to be a footpath finder. There are things that are done that seem like they are bad because you do not know the full information. I am not claiming to have full information but I am saying leadership must also be allowed to move. I am answering like this because of the adage that has been used. The fact that everybody is shouting should make you listen so that you find out if they have an issue. If you are just going to hear them because they are shouting about where my anchor of life is, you become King Saul, and you end up sacrificing because people are crying “sacrifice now”, when your instruction is from somebody else.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: From the article that has been read, you said the Auditor-General is not subject to the direction of another person or institution. I just picked that because I cannot cite like you did because you were prepared. I cannot remember exactly what you said. That is agreed with. Who is directing the Auditor-General? No one is doing that, as far as I know. You are even talking about panic and micro-managing. Honourable Member, do you live in the Auditor-General’s Office? How is the Government micro-managing the Office of the Auditor-General? I have not heard. Maybe that is something that he can add.

Madam Speaker, I have not heard that the Auditor-General has been given employees because that is what he is saying when he says that why can we not allow him to identify competent people. I am sure that will be done when real vacancies occur in the institution, which is not the case now. Investigations may be on going but nobody can say that we can now put another person. The Government does not work like that. If anybody is in the offices the hon. Member for Bwana Mkubwa talked about, they are there in their acting capacity, which is the normal way to proceed.

Yes, there may beubulema. We will listen and continue to see how we can make things better. However, we will not micro-manage because the Government is anchored on good governance. Strengthening institutions of Government, and this includes the Office of the Auditor-General. We want them to do a good job. We will continue to do a good job. I pray nobody will be employed in that manner. I use the words “I pray”. Nobody will be handpicked to become the director. There will be a process which is normally followed, if the vacancies truly occur.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Ngowani(Mpongwe): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to ask a question to Her Honour the Vice-President. The Government employed more than 30,000 teachers last year. When you go around schools in rural areas, you will find that the number of teachers has reduced. Most teachers have gotten transfers on medical grounds when they were certified fit during recruitment.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ngowani: Some teachers have been transferred to schools in urban areas. Are there any plans by the Government to carry out a human resource audit to take the teachers back to their respective schools so that we enhance quality education in schools in rural areas?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Mpongwe for the concern that after the Government employed more than 30,000 teachers, rural areas are still short of teachers. That is a sad report, I must say. I think we had agreed in the process of recruitment that, in fact, people should be recruited from their areas of residence. I think that is what we agreed. So, to hear this report, I must admit that I am surprised. Except when one is transferred on medical grounds, it becomes something beyond control, for example, of the Ministry of Education. However, right now we are grappling with finding transfers to reunite couples. We are struggling.

How can people who have been employed for less than a year be transferred anyhow? That is a concern for all of us. People applied from their districts. So, what has happened? My hon. Minister of Education is listening and it is important for us to look at this issue expect, I cannot tell the hon. Member the method we are going to use, whether it is audit of the staff or whatever. However, it is something that is worth looking at because people agreed that they will work in Kaputa and they are given the positions because there are vacancies in Kaputa. How come they suddenly want to be in Kasama? I think it is something to follow up, and that is all I can say for now because I was not aware of such a situation.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Speaker, policy consistency and coherence are key for the Government’s implementation of programmes. This is to do with the planning purposes for the private sector, the international community and the donor community that we rely on.

Madam Speaker, just last year in December, the New Dawn Government presented the National Budget and one of the keypronouncements was to deal with the shift from the Farmer Input Support Program (FISP) to Comprehensive Agriculture Support Programme (CASP).

Madam Speaker, it is a month of implementing that policy and there have been so many Government pronouncements. One of the examples is the pronouncement by the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock that we will continue with FISP. This is causing confusion in the private sector, both in agriculture and even in the international community.

Madam Speaker, what is the Government’s policy position on this matter regarding CASP and FISP? Which programme are we going with this year? Are we reverting to FISP or we shall introduce the new programme called CASP?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Pambeshe. How are you, Sir?

Mr Chitotela: I am fine, thank you.

The Vice-President: Great. I like his consistency in digging what we have said and what we are saying. It is part of providing checks and balances, and we agree. Let me just clarify on the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) and the Comprehensive Agriculture Support Programme (CASP). Even the title itself does not rule out FISP. CASP, as it is, encompasses other programmes. So, I think it is an opportunity for me to say this in the simplest term. Even if we were to change the name FISP, it means that there will be a programme of support to a particular type of farmer and another type of programme or activity to another. This is what CASP means. That is my understanding of these two programmes. I hope it is clear that we have not changed. The hon. Member can rest assured that we are still steadfast.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Madam Speaker, thank you so much and good morning Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, just a checklist for the New Dawn Government, the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema and the Vice-President. First on the list is load shedding. Secondly, the students’ meal allowances and the third one is on salaries for the civil servants. The fourth one is –

Madam Speaker, should I continue or end there?

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, for the sake of time, let me end there. The Vice-President may continue with the checklist.

Madam Speaker: I do not know if Her Honour the Vice-President wants to comment on the checklist.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the question and, indeed, good morning to the hon. Member for Mitete. This is our House and we need to remind each other. I had a reminder of what one hon. Member saw as a failed situation. However, it is alright. The other hon. Member stands to show what he sees as success.

Madam Speaker, I appreciate that the hon. Member ended at three points because if he chose to go on, that would take the rest of my time.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Nakaponda (Isoka): Madam Speaker, good morning from the people of Isoka. Good morning to Her Honour the Vice-President too.

Madam Speaker, my question is on the road from Tusunkane Market to Ntipo Secondary School and Mass Primary School. The road has become a death trap due to soil erosion. This is no longer a road, but a stream, especially when it rains causing people and school-going children to fail to pass. I would like to find out from Her Honour the Vice-President, who is my mother –

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Nakaponda: Madam Speaker, does the Government have immediate plans to help out on the challenges being faced by the people of Isoka in the said area?

Hon. Members: The Mother.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, she is genuinely my daughter. I feel proud to be her mother. She is a very hard-working hon. Member of Parliament for Isoka. She should continue working hard.

Madam Speaker, to be specific, I would not have an answer to that question because I may not know exactly what is there. However, the hon. Member has talked about soil erosion, particularly this year. That is why, our intention, in the Office of the Vice-President, is to come and issue a comprehensive statement on the status of floods.

Madam Speaker, this is because the rainfall has been so heavy. Most of the infrastructure has been affected. However, I may not talk about this particular one. Furthermore, it also depends on how big this problem is. The hon. Member could go back because this is an emergency. If she considers it an emergency, we have money to attend to emergencies. My office has money sitting in your Constituency Development Fund (CDF) Account. She can go ahead and use 5 per cent of that money it on what she sees as a priority. This is a call to all hon. Members. They should not start using this 5 per cent anywhere they feel like. The 5 per cent is meant for such smaller disasters that can be attended to. If they can, then well and good. So, please, the hon. Member for Isoka should go ahead, but generally, we will see what is happening in the area of infrastructure due to heavy rainfall and flooding.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Hamwaata (Pemba): Madam Speaker, local authorities have a big debt to clear with the National Pensions Scheme Authority (NAPSA), and 90 per cent of it is penalties. This is a bill which local councils will never manage to clear. My question to Her Honour the Vice-President is:Does the Government have plans to help councils to pay or negotiate for a waiver of the penalties so that they can concentrate on clearing the principal amount?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, he did not declare affinity.

Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Pemba, whose concern is about the indebtedness of local authorities to the National Pensions Scheme Authority (NAPSA). He asked whether the Government can help local authorities to pay off the debt or negotiate for the waiver of the penalties.

Madam Speaker, I will start by saying that NAPSA is a pension scheme, and that is not a place where you play. That would be playing with the lives of people. So, the hon. Member suggests a waiver; what happens to the owners of the money, I am thinking, as I stand here? I think it would be wrong to ask NAPSA to waive the penalties because that is individual people’s money, and they wait to access it at retirement or, indeed, midway.

Madam Speaker, on whether the Central Government could come in to bail out local authorities,I cannotcommit to that issue. However, what is important is that local authorities must ensure to meet their statutory obligations. That is a statutory obligation they are supposed to meet. It is also important that the Ministry of Labour and Social Security and the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development are listening.

Madam, I am actually told that penalties can be handled by reduction. However, I have a backgroundof a unionist and, as workers,we want money.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: That concludes that session. Atleast, we have managed to have thirteen hon. Members ask questions. If we summarised our questions, we would be able to accommodate more hon. Members. Sincere apologies to those werenot called upon. We hope to do better next time.

Let us make progress.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

CATTLE POPULATION IN THE WESTERN PROVINCE

142.Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Fisheries and Livestock:

what the cattle population in Western Province was, as of February, 2022;
what breeds of cattle there were;
whether there are any plans to conduct a cattle restocking exercise in the Province in order to increase the population and the breeds of cattle;
if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
whether the plans will be extended to other provinces.

The Minister of Fisheries and Livestock (Mr Chikote): Madam Speaker, the cattle population in Western Province, as of February 2022 was estimated at 483,030.

Madam Speaker, the native cattle breed in Western Province is Barotse. However, due to cross breeding, the province has some crosses of Barotseand other breeds such as Boran, Tonga and Angoni.

Madam, the Government has plans to restock the Western Province. However, currently, restocking in the province is not ongoing due to the high prevalence of the Contagious Bovine Pleuropneumonia (CBPP). The House may wish to note that the CBPP limits the increase in the population of cattle due to high mortality rate and reduced productivity

Once the disease is eradicated, the ministry will commence the restocking exercise in the province. The Stocking and restocking programme will be prioritised in the Western Province and other places where the eradication programme will be undertaken once the cattle numbers are restored, and the restocking programme will be extended to other parts of the country.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

There is too much noise in the House. Can we consecrate and listen to the questions.

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point or order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I am grateful that you have allowed me to raise a point of order pursuant to Standing Order 65.

Madam Speaker, when we were discussing and debating under the window of Her Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time, Hon. Kampyongo and the Leader of Opposition made a statement when asking Her Honour the Vice-President, alleging that there is interference on the part of the Executive pertaining to the operations of the Auditor-General. They quoted Article 252 of the Constitution, which I am not going quote, but state that it talks about the Auditor-General being in a position not to be influenced by any person or authority.

Madam Speaker, they conveniently decided not to take note of the provisions of Article 251 of the Constitution of Zambia and–

Mr Kampyongo: Contemporaneous!

Mr Mwiimbu: I was going to be contemporaneous, but it is not allowed to raise an issue when Her Honour the Vice-President is debating.

Madam Speaker, are they in order not to have taken into account the provisions of Article 251 of the Constitution of Zambia, which states that:

“Where the Auditor-General is absent from Zambia or is unable to perform the functions of office due to illness or other cause, the President shall appoint a person qualified to perform the functions of the Auditor-General until that appointment is revoked ...”

Madam Speaker, further, Article 53(4) states that the Auditor-General may resign from office or may be removed under the same conditions as a Judge of the High Court.

Madam Speaker, in their discourse, they tried to show that there is no other authority that can take appropriate measures pertaining to the functions of the Auditor-General. Are they not aware of those provisions that officers under the Auditor-General can be removed? They have no immunity. The Auditor-General can be removed by following the procedures. So, are they in order to mislead themselves?

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: The processes that have been undertaken by the Executive are within the confines of the law. Are they in order to mislead themselves? The officers they talked about have no immunity. They are civil servants like any other.

Are they in order to mislead themselves and the nation because they are in a panic mode?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order!

In view of the many documents that have been referred to, that I do not have access to, I will reserve my ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Katuta: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: There is another indication of a point of order by the hon. Member for Chienge. I hope it is a different matter.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, I rise on a very important point of order on the Leader of Government Business in the House, who is representing the Executive.

Madam Speaker, it is very important that I am accorded this point of order. I am so grateful that we have the Keeping girls in Schools (KGS), the Forum for African Women Educationists of Zambia (FAWEZA) and the Campaign for Female Educationist of Zambia (CAMFED) that are keeping our girls in schools. Now, unfortunately, this nation has totally forgotten about the boy child.

Madam Speaker, I recently toured most schools in Chienge and I realised the kind of resentment that is there amongst our girl and boy children. This has led to some of our boy children committing suicide because they are unable to access quality education that is accorded to our girl children.

Madam Speaker, I need to know why our Government cannot come up with a deliberate policy to also keep a boy child in school.

I need your serious indulgence, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Unfortunately, hon. Member, the matter that you have raised as a point of order does not qualify to be raised as such. I think you have to find another mechanism to bring that issue to the attention of the Executive other than through a point of order. Our rules are very clear on how a point of order can be raised. I refer to Standing Order No. 132 which states,

“Admissibility of Point of Order

A Point of Order may be admissible if ˗

it is raised immediately after the alleged breach occurs;
it is brief and precise;
it is raised in a civil language;
it is not raised against a decision of the presiding officer; or
it does not relate to a general interpretation of a written law.”

Now, that matter you have raised, hon. Member, I do not know what has been breached on the Floor of the House that can attract a point of order. Since there is no breach that you have referred to and it is a matter that is not related, it cannot be raised as a point of order.

Mr Chitotela: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, my point of order is on Her Honour the Vice-President. I refer to Standing Order No. 65 which talks about ensuring that the information provided in the House is factual. This is in relation to the question that was asked by the hon. Member of Parliament for Pemba on the issue of the National Pension and Scheme Authority (NAPSA) waiver and pension. In responding to that question, Her Honour the Vice-President said that the Government cannot against the decision by the Executive.

Madam Speaker, I sit on the committee responsible for economic affairs. The Government, through the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security brought the Zambia National Provident Fund (Amendment) Act which now allows for waiver of pensions and penalties depending on the complaint. It allows that waiver can be granted by the hon. Minister especially that many companies could have applied for that waiver after the Bill was passed by this august House and assented to by His Excellency the President.

Madam Speaker, is Her Honour the Vice-President, the second highest officer in the land, in order to state that that is not applicable? I feel that may cause a lot panic among the business community and the implementers of that law. So, I just wanted to know whether it was in order for Her Honour the Vice-President not to have referred to the law that was brought last year in December, that dealt with the amendments to the National Pension Scheme Authority Bills.

Madam Speaker: From what I heard, Her Honour the Vice-President said that she did not have information on that issue and I saw the hon. Minister Labour and Social Security trying to brief her. So, we cannot fault her because she did not have the information about that issue. I know that there was an amendment to that effect. So, she was not out of order. She just did not have the information on her hands. We can bear with her on that. So, we can make progress.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, what is an estimated population of cattle in Western Province? Has that number been constant or it has been reducing and rising?

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, these issues require the leadership of Western Province to co-operate and give support to the ministry so that we can sort out the issue of diseases in Western Province.

Madam Speaker, let me now come to the question. The cattle population in Western Province is reducing. For example, in 1998, the population of cattle in Western Province was 675,000 and in Southern Province, it was at 650,000. In 2021, the cattle population in Western Province increased from 675,000 to 483,000 whereas, in Southern Province, it increased from 650,000 to 2.2 million.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, we need to understanding the negative impact of the Contagious Bovine Pleural Pneumonia (CBPP). However, when we try to bring strategies or interventions to help the province to increase the number, it looks like the leadership does not understand. The leadership keeps on dragging the ministry backwards. We have made strategies to make sure that all of us in Western Province, especially the leadership understand interventions that will help the province increase the cattle population.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for the opportunity to ask a question. I also want to thank the hon. Minister for the statement.

Madam Speaker, what is of particular importance is to know how much money we have reserved for the cattle restocking exercise and which markets we are targeting. As we know, in investing and restocking of cattle, there must value to be derived by the country. So, we need to know which markets we are targeting and how much money we have provided for this particular exercise, not just to Western Province, but also, to other provinces across the country, as the question goes, “whether the plans will be extended to other provinces.”

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kanchibiya for that question.

Madam Speaker, I am not in a position to say how much money has been reserved for the restocking exercise. As regards providing markets to support our farmers who engage in production, the hon. Member may wish to note that the Government has put in place the necessary measures. First of all, as a country, we need to meet the standard requirements such as disease control. So, we have put in place mechanisms to make sure diseases in this country are under control. That is one of the factors that will allow Zambians to compete on international markets.

Madam Speaker, we are taking advantage of our neighbouring countries where our farmers can sell their products, and Angola is one such country. Recently, His Excellency the President was in that country and he signed trade agreements, and among them is the selling of livestock products such as beef, poultry products and milk. Angola is a yawning market, and all we need to do is put our house in order in the livestock sector.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Katambo: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister launched the stocking and restocking exercise in Luampa District, and he distributed some chickens and goats. The hon. Minister said that the ministry had put in place measures to control disease and that there was enough funding for disease control and management.

Madam Speaker, there are programmes in the ministry under the OPEC Fund for International Development (OFID) and the Enhanced Smallholder Livestock Investment Programme (E-SLIP) and other programmes under the International Fund for Agricultural Development (IFAD). The hon. Minister promised to give the people of the Western Province cattle and pigs to improve their livelihoods and income. So, they are anticipating this fulfilment from the ministry based on his pronouncement. When will the hon. Minister empower those people through the empowerment programmes in the ministry? Today, the hon. Minister has explained to the House that there is an outbreak of Contagious Bovine Pleural Pneumonia (CBPP). Is that the reason for the delay in empowering the people of the Western Province when he had indicated earlier that the ministry has enough funding for disease control and management? So, the people of the Western Province are expecting the hon. Minister to fulfil his promise, especially the traditional leadership.

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that important follow-up question.

Madam Speaker, first of all, let me explain that when we say restocking and stocking, we are talking of empowering our people through livestock programmes. As the hon. Member has rightly said, we were empowering our people with chickens, goats and other ruminant livestock. Indeed, that is correct. We are helping the small-scale farmers in the province with ruminant livestock. This is an ongoing programme because this is one way we can help them. However, when it comes to cattle, we cannot empower the people in the Western Province with cattle when we are still putting in place interventions to eradicate the cattle disease. There is no way we can take cattle to the Western Province when the cattle disease has not yet been eradicated. So, my words still stand that the Government has plans to restock cattle in the Western Province. All we are doing is ensuring that the CBPP is eradicated in the province before we empower the people with cattle.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Fube(Chilubi Island): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the people of Chilubi an opportunity to ask a question.

Madam Speaker, on a lighter note, I acknowledge that the hon. Minister of Livestock and Fisheries talked about the types of cattle namely Tonga and Barotse, which I talked about on the Floor of the House, yet he previously refused that they do not exist. Having said that, the hon. Minister has indicated that the population of cattle has reduced in certain places, not just in the Western Province. Has the ministry undertaken a research to know which areas cattle rearing can thrive? For instance, in Kaputa, sometime back, there was a cultural connotation that cattle could not be kept there because of tsetse flies. However, cattle were taken there and there being short grass, some hon. Members can bear witness that it is doing very well. So, has the ministry undertaken a research to know which other areas cattle –

Madam Speaker, I am asking this in connection with part (e) of the question, which in my view the hon. Minister answered casually by stating that the roll out of the programme to other parts of the country will be slow. Has the ministry undertaken a research to know which other areas are disease free and –

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Chilubi!

A point of order is raised by the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity. I rise on a procedural point of order which may not necessarily be related to what is stipulated in our Standing Orders.

Madam Speaker, this is a question and answer session, yet the hon. Member for Chilubi is now debating the question that was raised by his colleague. Is he in order to not just pose a straightforward question to the hon. Minister so that he gets the answer that he desires?

I seek your ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members tend to debate when asking questions and even answer their own questions, and then expect the hon. Minister to answer. Please, when you are asking questions, be precise and to the point. That way, we save time. So, I encourage hon. Members to be precise and to the point. Ask relevant questions related to the question under discussion.

Hon. Member for Chilubi, ask a specific question so that we make progress.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, my question is: Has the ministry undertaken a research so it can know which other places cattle rearing can thrive?

Mr Chikote: I thank the hon. Member for asking a specific question, having been guided accordingly by the Presiding Officer.

Madam Speaker, I visited some of the places the hon. Member cited to understand how we can increase the cattle population in this country.

Madam Speaker, our experts are in the process of making sure that we understand which other areas in this country can do very well in rearing cattle. In provinces such as Luapula, the Northern and Muchinga where there is no cattle because in the past, the people of these areas believedit was umunani -just meat, we are trying to make sure that we give them the necessaryinformation on how to increase livestock andunderstand that the livestock sector is an industry.

Madam Speaker, let me tell you that there is a great change from these three provinces. I learnt some lessons from the hon. Member of Parliament for Kanchibiya because he has been my role model and has helped me pass the information to the people in the three provinces.

Madam Speaker, as we speak, the ministry is in the process of making sure that the entire country is zonedso that we know where to put cattle without issues of disease and other factors that make us fail to compete on international market. We are in the process and I can rest assure my hon. Colleagues from these provinces that, going forward, the provinces will not be the same in terms of livestock production.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker the hon. Minister is talking about stocking and re-stocking being determined by the eradication of the Contagious Bovine Pleuro Pneumonia (CBPP) disease. The hon. Minister, in his own words, said that the CBPP is a disease, meaning it is caused. Therefore, if it is caused, then it can be gotten rid of. How much has the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock prepared itself to categorically get rid of the disease which was not there but is nowthere. How prepared is the ministry in getting rid of this disease so that the restocking and stocking of cattle takes place.

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, in the first place,let me assure the hon. Member that as a ministry, we are very prepared in a way that there are a few interventions that we have put in place and we are going to start implementing in this year’s budget.

Madam Speaker, first of all, I want to correct the hon. Member who said the disease has just started. It is a historical disease. It is a disease that comes from way back as 1913. So, the programme of putting interventions is what is going to help us to eradicate the disease. Therefore, as a ministry, we have established factors that are going to help us control the disease in the Western Province such as:

we need to revive the cordon line. We have felt as a ministry that this has been a source of Contagious Bovine Pleuro Pneumonia (CBPP) disease from the trans-boundary movement of animals, and
we have decided to conduct tests on all the animals in the Western Province so that the animals that test positive to CBPP are removed, and to help the farmers restock with clean animals.

Those are the intervention this Government has put in place.

Madam Speaker, let me also remove the notion of thinking that when we are undertaking the test and slaughter programme to help us eradicate the disease, it does not mean that all the animals in the Western Province are going to be slaughtered. Let me assure the people of the Western Province that, in fact, from an expert analysis that has been conducted, it is only about 10 to 15 per cent of animals that are affected in the Western Province. So, when we remove the affected cattle, theGovernment will help in making sure that clean breeds are brought in to help with production in the Western Province. So, those are the measures that the Government is putting in place to help the province increase the population of cattle.

Madam Speaker: I think we have exhausted the question.I see more questions coming, but I think we need to make progress. You can continue engaging the hon. Minister of Fisheries and livestock. He has a lot of passion for that subject.

ELECTRIFICATION OF MSANZALA PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

143.Mr E.Dakaasked the Minister of Energy:

when the following infrastructure in Msanzala Parliamentary Constituency will be electrified:

Chikuse Day Primary School;
Monde Day Secondary School;
Msolo Day Primary School;
Mwambula Day Primary School; and
Sichilima Health Post; and
what the cause of the delay in electrifying the infrastructure is.

The Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala): Madam Speaker, according to the Rural Electrification Master Plan (REMP), Chikuse Day Primary School, Monde Day Secondary School, Msolo Day Primary School, Mwambula Day Primary School andSichilima Health Post are scheduled for electrification in 2024. Accordingly, REA conducted a feasibility study, in 2019 to establish the scope and cost of electrifying Chikuse Day Primary School, Monde Day Secondary School, Mwambula Day Primary School andSichilima Health Post,in Msanzala Parliamentary Constituency and the surrounding communities.

The scope involves the construction of 32 km of 33 kV overhead lines, 14,000m of 400 voltage overhead lines and the installation of six by 50 kVA transformers at an estimated cost of K25 million.

However, with regard to Mwambula Day Primary School and MsoloDay Primary School, REA will visit the schools this year to conduct feasibility studies and establish the scope of works and the cost of electrification. However, the subsequent electrification of the above mentioned public institutions will be subject to the availability of funds.

There has been no delay in electrifying the aforementioned public institution in Msanzala Parliamentary Constituency as indicted in (a) because these institutions are earmarked for electrification in 2024 and preparatory works are under way.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr E. Daka: Madam Speaker, I think the people of Msanzala will be waiting since the hon. Minister has indicated that it will be done in 2024.

144. Mr Simuzingiliasked the Minister of Health:

when the Government will procure the following equipment for Munyumbwe Level 1 Hospital in Gwembe District:

X-ray machines; and
Computed Tomography (CT) Scan; and

what the estimated cost of the equipment is.

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mrs Masebo:Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I was just about to respond to the question asked by Hon. Kapyanga who asked the Minister of Health:

when the Government will procure X-ray machines for the following health facilities in Mpika District:

Chilonga Hospital;
Michael Chilufya Sata Hospital; and
Mpika Rural Health Centre; and

what the total cost of the machines is.

Madam Speaker:Order!

Hon. Minister, the question is 144 by Hon.Simuzingili,Member of Parliament for Gwembe.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I apologise. I inform the House that due to limited fiscal space, procurement of medical equipment for public health facilities countrywide, will be implemented in a phased approach.

Madam Speaker, the procurement of an x-ray machine for Munyumbwe Level 1 Hospital in Gwembe will, however, be procured this year as it has been included in the 2023 Medical Equipment Plan.

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that medical equipment is provided in public health facilities according to the level of health care and the staff establishment. Therefore, the Computed Tomography (CT) Scan is a specialised equipment, so it is not provided at the first level hospital. At the moment, according to the staff establishment for a first level hospital, there are no specialist doctors or staff to request for a CT Scan, or conduct a CT Scan and interpret the results. Therefore, the Government has no immediate plan to procure a CT Scan for Munyumbwe Level 1 Hospital in Gwembe.

Madam Speaker, the estimated cost for X-ray machines and a CT Scan machine is as follows:

Digital fluoroscope X-ray machine costs K3.124 million; and
CT Scan Machine costs K13.2 million

Madam Speaker, I thank You.

Mr Simuzingili: Madam Speaker, this system is ineffective (pointing at his microphone)

Madam Speaker: Kindly log in.

Laughter

Hon. Members: You need to apologise.

Mr Simuzingili: Apologies, Madam Speaker. Maybe, that is the more reason we are asking for power in Gwembe.

Madam Speaker I thank the hon. Minister for the good answers. We will be waiting for the procurement of the X-ray machines.

I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much, can we make progress then. There is no need for further questions on that matter since the hon. Member is satisfied.

CONSTRUCTION OF A POLICE STATION IN MUNGWI DISTRICT

145. Mr Kalimi (Malole) asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security:

whether the Government has any plans to construct a police station in Mungwi District;
if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
c. if they are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, in responding to the question raised by Hon. Kalima, I wish to inform the House as, …

Madam Speaker: Order hon Minister! It is Hon.Kalimi, not Kalima.

Mr Mwiimbu: Sorry about that, Madam.

Madam Speaker,I inform the House that the Government has plans to construct a Grade B police station and eight housing units in Mungwi District.

Madam Speaker, the plans will be implemented when on-going projects are completed and resources are made available. Therefore part (c)of the question does not arise.

Mr Kalimi: Madam Speaker, sometimes we become reluctant to ask some of these questions over a project because the answer is always, ‘when the money will be available’. Could the hon. Minister indicate when we are going to have money to construct the Police station?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, when this House appropriates the budget for this particular police station.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

CASHEW NUT FARMERS IN THE WESTERN PROVINCE

146. Mr Miyutuasked the Minister of Agriculture:

how many cashew nut farmers there were in Western Province, as of April 2022;
of the farmers above, how many were registered with, and benefited from the Cashew Infrastructure Development Project (CIDP), as of the same date;
what the total area of cashew nut production covered under the CIDP, is;
how many cashew nut trees were planted under the CIDP, as of the date at (a);
what measures are being taken to assist cashew nut farmers in the province to enhance their production capacities; and
when harvesting of the cashew nuts under the CIDP will commence.

The Minister of Justice (Mr Haimbe) (on behalf of the Minister of Agriculture (Mr Mutolo)): Madam Speaker, there were 59,439 registered cashew nut farmers in the Western Province as at April 2022.

Madam Speaker, all the 59,439 who were registered benefited from the Cashew Infrastructure Development Project (CIDP) as of April 2022. Of these farmers, 52 per cent are men, 32 per cent are women, 8 per cent are male youth and 7 per cent are female youth.

Madam Speaker, a total area of 70,075 ha was covered under the CIDP as at April 2022.

Madam Speaker, 6.3 million seedlings were planted under CIDP as of the said date.

Madam, farmers are being trained in cashew management, disease identification and control and Good Agricultural Practices (GAP) in cashew.

Madam Speaker, field hygiene and spraying of cashew nut trees is conducted when the period of spraying is due. Further, they are provided with financial and technical resources in the establishment of irrigated cashew nurseries at Simulumbe Research Station and the farmer training centres at Namushakende, Nangweshi, Kalabo and Simakumba, which are centres of mass production of improved and quality cashew seedlings.

Madam Speaker, harvesting of cashew nuts under the CIDP has already commenced and farmers are currently selling their cashew nuts to the local market.

I thank you, Madam.

Madam Speaker: We can have a supplementary question from the hon. Member for Kalabo.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, I would have asked a supplementary question, but considering the situation, I am incapacitated.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Madam Speaker, with the number that the acting hon. Minister of Agriculture has indicated, amongst beneficiaries for the Cashew Infrastructure Development Project (CIDP), there is a hybridisation method has been standardised for breeding cashew nut varieties such as mutation breeding, molecular breeding, transgenic breeding and molecular markers. These beneficiaries have gone out of their way to start breeding their own cashew nut seedlings, which will affect the production of high-quality cashew nuts. What measures has the ministry put in place to deal with cashew nut growers who are producing seedlings which are not recommended for the project? What is the ministry doing about this?

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, the question was quite limited in its scope as regards the numbers and other statistics that were being looked for by the hon. Member for Kalabo Central. Suffice it to say that there are interventions in place to protect the improved genetic material that is being promoted under the CIDP.

Madam Speaker, I am also aware that there is work underway to increase the hectarage to be covered and to increase the number of seedlings that are available so as to cover an additional 3,500 ha of cashew. It is through these processes that the integrity of the crop in the region at hand will be protected.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

PROCUREMENT OF X-RAY MACHINES FOR MPIKA DISTRICT

147. Mr Kapyanga (Mpika) asked the Minister of Health:

when the Government will procure X-ray machines for the following health facilities in Mpika District:

Chilonga Hospital;
Michael Chilufya Sata Hospital; and
Mpika Rural Health Centre; and

what the total cost of the machines is.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, due to limited fiscal space, the procurement of medical equipment for public health facilities countrywide will be implemented in a phased approach.

Madam Speaker, hon. Members will recall that in the Budget of 2022, we had an allocation of only K196 million for medical equipment such as X-ray machines, Computerised Tomography (CT) Scan machines, beds, mortuary units and the like. However, and thanks to the House and the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, in 2023, the allocation was increased from K196 million to K600 million. Therefore, we will do better this year.

Madam Speaker, in that regard, the Zambia Medicines and Medical Supplies Agency (ZAMMSA) has awarded a contract for the supply and delivery of, at least, fifteen X-ray machines. The distribution of these machines will, obviously, be informed by various factors such as the level of the health care facility and availability of experts to operate them.

Madam Speaker, as indicated, the Government has already procured an X-ray machine, through ZAMMSA, for Chilonga Hospital. Therefore, the delivery and installation of the X-ray machine is expected by the end of the first quarter of 2023.

Madam Speaker, the procurement of an X-ray machine for the Michael Chilufya Sata Hospital will be done this year as it has been included in the 2023 medical equipment plan. The House may wish to note that medical equipment is provided in public health facilities according to their level and staff establishment.

Madam Speaker, the staff establishment for a rural health centre does not have a radiographer. As such, the standard medical equipment list for a rural healthcare centre does not include an X-ray machine. Therefore, the Government, through the Ministry of Health, has no plans to procure an X-ray machine for Mpika Rural Health Centre because it does not require one, looking at its level.

Madam Speaker, the total cost of the X-ray machines is as follows, and I hope hon. Members of Parliament take note of these costs so that, maybe, within the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), they may consider purchasing X-ray machines for their hospitals:

digital fluoroscope X-ray machine is K3.124 million; and
digital non-fluoroscope X-ray machine is K2.469 million.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the response and the procurement of the two x-ray machines. Let me bring it to the attention of the hon. Minister that Mpika Urban Clinic is not a rural health centre. It is an urban clinic where the broken down x-ray machine is. We actually, have members of staff who have been manning the same machine. How then is it that in the hon. Minister’s report, it states that there is no establishment when the x-ray machine was operating before it broke down?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for his follow-up question.

Madam Speaker, I will seek your indulgence because the question here reads, “Mpika Rural Health Centre” not Mpika Urban Health Centre. Those are two different hospitals. So, maybe, the hon. Member made a mistake in the question.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing the people of Kaumbwe to ask a follow-up question to the hon. Minister of Health. The hon. Minister has encouraged us to use the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to acquire some medical diagnostic equipment for our health centres.

Madam Speaker, the health centre medical equipment is allocated based on the health care services that are provided. Now, how will we allocate the CDF to buy an x-ray machine for a rural health centre, for example, the clinic in question, when there are no radiographers at that rural health centre? There are no technical personnel at that clinic but money to buy an x-ray machine is there. Will the Ministry of Health send the technical personnel to that particular clinic?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, we are talking about medical equipment and this would mean things like the Computed Tomography Scan (CT Scan), x-ray machines or an ambulance. Now, in support of the health sector, the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development and the Government have allowed hon. Members of Parliament and their communities to use the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) on activities that need to be prioritised. For example, they may wish to procure a mortuary unit or indeed, an X-ray machine, if they think that is a priority at their health facility. However, like I stated, we have health posts, rural health centres, and urban health centres. We also have level one hospitals which are known as district hospitals. Then of course, we have level two hospitals which may be considered as general hospitals or provincial hospitals. We also have the top ones like the University Teaching Hospitals (UTH) which are tertiary hospitals. Finally, we have specialised hospitals like the cancer, heart and, mother and child hospitals.

Madam Speaker, all these various levels have been established to cure or treat specific diseases. It therefore, means that even the establishment that is allocated or approved, depends on the functions that they are supposed to perform. So, one cannot talk about acquiring a CT Scan at health post level because that is more like a first aid box. I am saying so because there will be no qualified health workers to operate a big machine like a CT Scan. So, normally, CT Scans will be found in bigger hospitals like the UTH and general hospitals like the Chipata General Hospital. There, one can even find personnel who can operate that kind of a machine. However, we are now talking about things like the ambulance, x-ray machines or thermometers. These can be used even at district hospitals and urban health centres. That is what we mean when we say that the hon. Member will see which ones should be prioritised. It is up to the hon. Member to see which level their medical facility falls under and what machine they can acquire.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, with your indulgence, I want to correct that it is Mpika Urban Clinic which we are actually renovating and re-equipping so that it becomes a level one hospital, using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). In this case, may I know what the hon. Minister’s response is in the case that it is Mpika Urban Clinic which is actually housing the broken-down X-ray machine?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, the question I have here is written ‘Mpika Rural Health Centre’ which was asked by the hon. Member, himself. So, if they are now upgrading the clinic from being a rural health centre to urban and making it bigger, that is a different story. Maybe, he can put in another question relating to what he is asking.

Madam Speaker: Thank you for that observation. Hon. Member for Mpika, I think, your question referred to Mpika Rural Health Centre and that is the question that the hon. Minister addressed herself to. So, if the status of the health centre or clinic has changed to level one, you need to put in another question. So, that question has lapsed.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

CONSTRUCTION OF HOUSES FOR CIVIL SERVANTS IN MFUWE

PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

148.Ms Mabonga (Mfuwe) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

whether the Government has any plans to construct houses for civil servants in Mfuwe Parliamentary Constituency;
if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
what the estimated cost of the project is.

The Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala) on behalf of (the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi)): Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to construct forty-three housing units for civil servants in Lavushimanda District where Mfuwe Constituency is located.

Madam Speaker, the plan will be implemented once funds for the project are secured.

Madam Speaker, the estimated cost of the project is K38,040,000.00. However, the cost shall be updated at the time of tendering the works in line with the current procurement practices that consider the prevailing Market Price Index produced by the Zambia Public Procurement Authority.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Mabonga: Madam Speaker, have the same housing units been segregated in different Government departments? For example, how many will go to the health sector and the education sector?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I do not have information on that segregation. However, twenty-eight low cost houses, twelve medium cost houses and three high cost houses will be built at a costof K38 million.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, the people of Chilubiare concernedabout the price index.

Mr J. Chibuye: No.

Mr Fube: In any case, you are not the one answering the question.

Madam Speaker, the people of Chilubiare concerned about the price index. The hon. Minister has indicated that it will cost K38 million to build the houses. The prices, especially of building materials, seem to be rising every now and then, and if I got the hon. Minister correctly, no timeframe was attached to the building of the houses. I do not know how the Government will navigate on the timeframe against the price index of the building materials.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the normal process of tendering will be effected. As indicated, price indexing also helps in determining whether the project will be over priced or within the budget. However, the Treasury has already authorised that the construction of the houses should take place.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Mabonga: Madam Speaker, the concern is that the hon. Minister responded that the houses will be constructed when the funds are made available, and he has not indicated what the timeframe for the project is. Is it five years or ten years or two months from now? The people of Lavushimandawould like to have an idea of when the project is likely to take off.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I do not have the actual timeframe of the project. However, I will get back to the hon. Member of Parliament as soon as I get the actual dates from the ministry.

RELOCATION OF GWEMBE DISTRICT ADMINISTRATIVE CENTRE TO

MUMYUMBWE

149.Mr Simuzingili asked the Vice-President:

whether the Government has any plans to relocate the Gwembe District Administrative Centre from the current location to Munyumbwe which has a bigger population and is more centrally located;
if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
if there are no such plans, why.

Mr Simuzingili: Madam Speaker, with leave of the House, I withdraw the question.

Madam Speaker:Thank you. Leave granted in accordance with Standing Order No. 79 (2).

Question put and agreed to. Leave granted.

Question, by leave, accordingly withdrawn.

REHABILITATION OF KASOMALWELA ROAD IN CHEMBE

150. Mr C. Mpundu (Chembe)asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

when the rehabilitation of Kasomalwela Road in Chembe District, will resume and be completed;
what the cause of the delay in completing the project is; and
what the total cost of the project is.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, Kasomalwela Road in Chembe District underwent some spot improvement and grading works in 2018, by the Road Development Agency (RDA) under the Force Account. The improvement works which were envisaged at the time were completed and they have not stalled.

Madam Speaker, the initial scope of spot improvement works were completed in 2018.

Madam Speaker, the cost of the completed spot improvement works was K344,000.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr C. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that the works have not stalled, but the works in Chembe were not completed. Who was the contractor of that road?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I do not have that information.All I know is that in 2020, a comprehensive spot improvement programme, which was estimated at K16 million, was proposed on the entire 124 km road passing through Mansa, Chembe and Milengedistricts under the Force Account. The proposed works are yet to commence due to funding challenges. I am sure when the situation improves, the contract will be honoured.

I thank you, Madam Speaker

Mr C. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, money in the Government will never be enough.Before the Government cancels a project, it is important that it does a proper feasibility study.

It is just a comment, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Since it is just a comment, we make progress.

STALLED REHABILITATION OF THE ISOKA/CHIBALE ROAD IN CHAMA

NORTH CONSTITUENCY

151.Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North)asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

why the rehabilitation of the Isoka/Chibale road in Chama North Parliamentary Constituency has stalled;
when the project will resume;
what the total cost of the project is; and
what the timeframe for the completion of the project is.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the rehabilitation of the Isoka/Chibale Road in Chama North Parliamentary Constituency has stalled due to funding challenges.

Madam Speaker,the project will resume once funds are secured.

Madam Speaker,the total cost of the project is K68 millioninclusive of the Value Added Tax (VAT).

Madam Speaker, the duration for the project is estimated at twenty-four months from the time of resumption.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo:MadamSpeaker,first and foremost, let me state that this question should have been directed to the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development not the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development. This project is under the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development.

Madam, let me state that after I engaged the Ministry of Local Government and rural Development, we were funded and Tomorrow Investment did a good job on the road. What remained were three crossing points.

So, the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development funded us with K12 million and works are progressing very well. Tanzania Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA) is doing a very good job. In few months from now, the project will be completed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chilubi, do you want to ask a question? The owner of the question is satisfied.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, let me state that the owner of the question has complicated everything ...

Laughter

Mr Fube... because the question I was supposed to ask is to do with the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development. However, he has directed the question to the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development.

Mr Kapala: It is!

Mr Fube: If that is the case, let me ask my question.

Interruptions

Mr Fube: Excuse me.

Madam Speaker: Proceed.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, in the 2023 Budget, there is K250 million for roads, which is targeting 600 Km countrywide. The hon. Minister, in his response, said that the project will resume once funds are available. My interest is that since the 2023 Budget has K250 million, why not bank on the same especially that the hon. Minister has given a completion period of twenty-four?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I think there is a bit of confusion with my hon. Member for Chilubi. Already, the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development is undertaking 40 Km of the 250 Km that is allowed for in the Budget. So, I do not see where the problem is regarding the amount that is available. We should be mindful that the initial contract was terminated at the progress of only 18 per cent. So, the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development has gone in to rehabilitate at least 40 Km of the main road.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

It appears we have exhausted the business on the Order Paper.

_______

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Chief Whip and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mulusa): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1143 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 21^stFebruary, 2023.

____________

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