Wednesday, 15th February, 2023

Wednesday, 15^thFebruary, 2023

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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RULINGS BY MADAM SPEAKER

POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR C. MWEETWA, HON. MINISTER FOR SOUTHERN PROVINCE, ON MR B. MUNDUBILE, HON. MEMBER FOR MPOROKOSO CONSTITUENCY, FOR ALLEGEDLY REFERRING TO MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER’S RULING AS NONSENSE

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members will recall that on Wednesday, 14^thDecember, 2022, when the House was considering the Securities (Amendment) Bill, No. 23 of 2022 and the hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker was on the Floor, Hon. C. Mweetwa, MP, Minister for Southern Province, raised a point of order premised on Standing Order 66. Standing Order 66 states, in part, as follows:

“66. Unparliamentary Language

Unparliamentary language refers to the use of offensive, provocative, insulting, threatening or obscene language in the House.
A member shall not use unparliamentary language in the House.”

In his point of order, Hon. C. Mweetwa, MP, inquired whether Hon. B. M. Mundubile, MP, was in order to use unparliamentary language by referring to the hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker’s ruling as ‘nonsense’ just because he did not agree with it.

Hon. Members, in her immediate response, the hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker, sitting as the Chairperson of the Committee of the Whole House, reserved her ruling. I have since studied the matter and I will now render my ruling.

Hon. Members, Hon. C. Mweetwa, MP’s point of order arose from a decision by the Chairperson regarding a proposed amendment to the Securities Bill, which was moved by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. According to Hon. C. Mweetwa, MP, Hon. B. M. Mundubile, MP, was dissatisfied with the Chairperson’s decision and, consequently, referred to it as ‘nonsense’.

Hon. Members, I had recourse to the verbatim record and relevant recording of the proceedings of Wednesday, 14^th December, 2022, which gave rise to Hon. C. Mweetwa, MP’s, point of order. Neither the verbatim record nor the recording captured Hon. B. M. Mundubile, MP, uttering the word ‘nonsense’ in response to the decision by the Chairperson of the Whole House as alleged by Hon. C. Mweetwa, MP. In this regard, there is no evidence that Hon. B. M. Mundubile, MP,uttered the word. He was, therefore, not out of order.

I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR MUNIR ZULU, HON. MEMBER FOR LUMEZI CONSTITUENCY, ON THE HOUSE, FOR NOT ALLOWING HON. MEMBERS TO DEBATE HEADS OF PROVINCES WHERE THEIR CONTITUENCIES ARE NOT LOCATED

Madam Speaker:Hon. Members will recall that on Tuesday, 13^th December, 2022, when the House had resolved into Committee of Supply to consider Head 86 – Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock, the Hon. Mr Second Deputy Speaker, sitting as the Deputy Chairperson of the Committee of Supply provided guidance on the procedure of debate. The guidance was that following the suspension of Standing Orders 25 and 27, the Heads of Expenditure for the provinces would be considered by, firstly, the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House giving one policy statement for all the provinces. Thereafter, three hon. Members from each of the provinces appearing on the Order Paper would debate their provincial Heads. The appropriate provincial hon. Minister would then respond to issues raised on the provincial Head. When all provincial Heads of Expenditure had been debated, the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House would wind up debate. Thereafter, the Committee of Supply would commence consideration of individual Heads of Expenditure concurrently.

Hon. Members will also recall that on Friday, 16^th December, 2022, when the House was in Committee of Supply considering Head 98, Office of the President – Southern Province, and Hon. C. Mweetwa, Minister for Southern Province had just concluded his response to issues raised on the provincial Head, Mr Munir Zulu, hon. Member of Parliament for Lumezi Constituency, raised a point of order. The point of order was against the House for preventing hon. Members from debating on provinces where their constituencies were not located. In his point of order, Mr Munir Zulu, MP, also enquired whether the House was in order to limit the number of hon. Members to debate on each province without it being prescribed by the Standing Orders.

In her immediate response, the hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker, sitting as the Chairperson for the Committee of Supply, reserved her ruling to enable her study the matter. I have since studied the matter and I will now render my ruling.

Hon. Members may wish to note that an examination of the point of order by Mr Munir Zulu, MP, reveals that it emanates from an order given by the Second Deputy Speaker, sitting as the Deputy Chairperson for the Committee of Supply, on Tuesday, 13^th December, 2022. This, therefore, amounts to a challenge on a decision of a Presiding Officer.

Standing Order 226 (1) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021, is instructive on the procedure to be followed where an hon. Member wishes to challenge a decision of a Presiding Officer and provides as follows:

“(1) A member who wishes to challenge a decision of a presiding officer shall move a substantive motion…”

Further, Standing Order 132 (1) (d) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021 provides that:

“(1) A Point of Order may be admissible if –

…

it is not raised against a decision of the presiding officer…”

Additionally, Standing Order 132 (2) (d) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021, provides that:

“(2) A member shall not raise a Point of Order –

…

on a presiding officer or an officer…”

The overall effect of Standing Orders 132 (1)(d) and 132 (2)(d) is that an hon. Member cannot raise a point of order against a Presiding Officer, as Mr Munir Zulu, MP, sought to do in this case.

Hon Members, at this point,let me provide guidance on the procedure to be followed when an hon. Member intends to challenge a decision of a presiding officer. The guidance is contained in Standing Order 226 (1) which requires that an hon. Member who wishes to challenge a decision of a presiding officer shall move a substantive Motion.Therefore, in this instance, Mr Munir Zulu, MP, ought to have moved a substantive Motion, made in writing, addressed to my office and stated the grounds for the challenge.

The consequence of the guidance above is that Mr Munir Zulu, MP’s, point of order is inadmissible as it does not meet the requirements set out in Standing Orders 132 (1)(d) and 132 (2)(d) and is in violation of Standing Order 226 (1).

I thank you.

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MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

MS NYIRENDA, HON. MEMBER FOR LUNDAZI CONSTITUENCY, ON THE VICE-PRESIDENT, MRS NALUMANGO, ON THE FLOOD SITUATION IN LUNDAZI

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Speaker, on a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, the matter I wish to raise should go to Her Honour the Vice-President, being the one in charge of the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) and also the hon. Minister in charge of infrastructure.

Ms Nyirendaresumed her seat.

Madam Speaker: You may proceed, hon. Member. What is the matter of urgent public importance?

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving a chance to the people of Lundazi to report this urgent matter of public importance.

Madam Speaker, Lundazi is experiencing serious floods just like Chasefu and other areas nearby. In the last twenty-four hours, crop fields have been washed away and people are lamenting and crying to us that we may also cry to Her Honour the Vice-President to come through and help them.

Madam Speaker, the hunger situation in Lundazi has actually been precipitated by delays and non-availability of urea fertiliser in the last farming season. What is obtaining right now is something that requires urgent attention. If nothing is done, children will die of malnutrition. We are requesting, as the people of Lundazi, that Her Honour the Vice-President, being in charge of DMMU, may help some of the people whose crops have been washed away and some who may not have a good yield due to poor delivery of fertiliser.

Madam Speaker, in addition, let me bring it to the attention of the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development that the cofferdam, which was built around Lundazi Dam has been washed away. This has also caused a threat to the Mwase Dam, which is the only reliable source for connecting people from Mwase to Lundazi. If nothing is done, Mwase will be cut-of and we are going to experience challenges in the movement of even the would-be relief food that the Government might send.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

MR. B. MPUNDU, HON. MEMBER FOR NKANA CONSTIETUENCY, ON THE CHIEF WHIP, MR MULUSA, ON THE ACCOMODATION OF HON. MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, on a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, I wish to rise on a matter of urgent public importance pursuant to Standing Order 134 on the House through the Chief Whip.

Madam Speaker, hon. Members of Parliament are national assets and trophies whose lives and welfare must be protected and safeguarded at all times. When I returned from the break yesterday, I was made to go and reside in a lodging facility that is way below par.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, the issue you are raising does not qualify to be raised as a matter of urgent public importance.

Mr. B. Mpundu: I have not finished, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The matter is administrative. If you are referring to the welfare of hon. Members of Parliament and where they are staying, unfortunately, that is not admissible.

Mr. B. Mpundu: So, I must continue staying in Kalingalinga?

Interruptions

Madam Speaker:That matter is not admitted.

MR MTAYAC HALO, HON. MEMBER FOR CHAMA NORTH CONSTITUENCY, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF ENERGY, MR KAPALA, ON THE SUPPLY OF ELECTRICITY TO CHAMA

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, on a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, the matter of urgent public importance I wish to raise is directed at the hon. Minister of Energy. The prolonged power blackouts in Chama District have crippled economic activities in the district, notwithstanding the fact that Zambia exports power to Malawi. In turn, the Electricity Supply Corporation of Malawi (ESCOM) supplies power to Chama District. As you are aware, Chama is not yet connected to the national electricity grid.

Madam Speaker, there are contractual obligations that the Southern African Development Community (SADC) member states are supposed to adhere to with regard to power supply to neighbouring countries. More importantly, Zambia is a member of the Southern Africa Power Pool (SAPP), including Malawi. However, ESCOM has continued to abrogate the contractual obligations and can disrupt power supply at any given time. As a result, Chama is in a very serious situation.

Madam Speaker, ZESCO Limited runs a diesel generator plant that is supposed to work as a stopgap measure in an event that power from Malawi is interrupted. Unfortunately, ZESCO Limited is not able to effectively supply power to Chama because the capacity of the generator being used has been depleted due to the increased demand for electricity in the district.

As a result, Madam Speaker, there is a critical water shortage in Chama. People are now forced to go and draw water from the Kampemba River and shallow wells. This has also affected Chama Boarding Secondary School and people are afraid that there is a potential outbreak of cholera and other diarrhoeal diseases because just a stone’s throw away, in our neighbouring country, there is an outbreak of cholera.

Madam Speaker, the situation is so bad that it has also affected the hospital surgical operations and people are now burying their loved ones prematurely for fear of bodies being decomposed. Therefore, I seek your serious indulgence in this matter so that an immediate solution is found for this crisis in order to ensure that economic activities in Chama are not disrupted and lives are safeguarded.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

MR MUTINTA, HON. MEMBER FOR ITEZHI-TEZHI CONSTITUENCY, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF INFRASTRUCTURE, HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT, ENG. MILUPI, ON THE DILAPIDATED ROAD IN ITEZHI-TEZHI

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi): Madam Speaker, on a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mutinta: Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving the people of Itezhi-Tezhi and Sing’ombe a chance to ask a question on a matter of urgent public importance. The question is directed at the Vice-President’s Office and the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development.

Madam Speaker, it has now been three weeks that Itezhi-Tezhi turned into an island. It has been cut-off from the rest of the Southern Province. The people of Itezhi-Tezhi now have to move for more than 2,000 km to go to the provincial administration office. There is a road which was referred to as a climate resilient road built by the previous Government. It is only one year old, but five of its bridges have been washed away.

Interruptions

Mr Mutinta: This is now a serious risk for the people of Itezhi-tezhi District. Last week, we recorded one maternal death from one of the wards which accesses Itezhi-tezhi using this road that has been cut off. The other alternative road which uses the Namwala pontoon has also been cut off.

Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development what immediate interventions are being taken so that the people of Itezhi-tezhi District can be part of the Southern Province.

MR TWASA, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR KASENENGWA, ON MR MWIIMBU, THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, ON CATTLE THEFTS IN PALABANA DISTRICT

Mr Twasa(Kasenengwa):Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me to stand on this matter of urgent public importance. This matter is directed at the hon. Minister of Home Affairs. You may be privileged to know that I have some interest in Palabana in Chongwe District. Palabana is under siege as thieves have taken over the place going around farms and stealing cows. We do not sleep. We have a neighbourhood watch group which goes around patrolling every night and we spend a lot of money contributing towards fuel and other logistics for the patrols.

This issue, Madam Speaker, was brought to the attention of the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security through the hon. Member of Parliament for Chongwe Parliamentary Constituency. As per your guidance, the necessary measures were taken. However, I have seen that there is no action being taken by the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security. We are still in the same situation, and even worse off now than at the time when this matter was brought to the attention of the hon. Minister.

Madam Speaker, we are under siege, we do not sleep. The little investment that we have put into those farms is at risk. We risk losing our animals.

I need your serious guidance on this matter, Madam Speaker.

MR KAMPYONGO, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR SHIWAN’GANDU, ON MR TAYALI, THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND LOGISTICS, ON THE DISRUPTION OF SCHEDULED FLIGHTS AT KENNETH KAUNDA INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT (KKIA) ON 11^TH FEBRUARY,2023

Mr Kampyongo(Shiwang’andu: Madam Speaker, the matter of urgent public importance that I am raising is directed at the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics. This matter relates to the international civil aviation scandal which occurred on Saturday, 11^th February, 2022, at the Kenneth Kaunda International Airport (KKIA). This scandal left a large number of lives of international and local travellers at a huge risk.

Madam Speaker, a Qatar Airways flight which was scheduled to land at a specified time was delayed for more than thirty minutes and the plane was made to go round in circles before it could be allowed to land. The second flight…

Hon. UPND Members: It is normal!

Mr Kampyongo: bututuubomwe ma Ministers!

The second flight was the (United) Arab Emirates, …

Laughter

Hon Government Members: Question!

Hon. PF. Member: Hear, hear!Bututu!

Madam Speaker: Order hon. Members!

Mr Kampyongo: The second flight was the (United) Emirates Airline flight which was equally delayed and made to go round in circles before it could be allowed to land. Our local airline Proflight which was scheduled to land in Mfuwe was re-routed to Simon Mwansa Kapwepwe International Airport (SMKIA) in Ndola. This is not a joke. Those who know civil aviation rules should be able to understand that is it not normal for three flights to be delayed in this manner.

Madam Speaker, it takes so much time to negotiate for these international airlines to start servicing our destinations. So, such occurrences are a risk. Is the hon. Minister in order to remain quiet when lives of many people were at risk?

I seek your guidance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Maybe, hon. Member, you can just shed some light on what the reason for the delayed landing was?

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, that is the responsibility of the hon. Minister, to share with this House and the nation why that incident occurred. It is very critical. Like I have said, it does not take easy negotiations for these airlines to start servicing our destinations. So, such occurrences which put the lives of international travellers at risk must be avoided at all costs.

Madam Speaker, we would like the hon. Minister to explain to the nation what caused that disruption in flights so that we can interrogate him.

MR MUNG’ANDU, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR CHAMA NORTH, ON MRS NALUMANGO, HER HONOUR THE VICE PRESIDENT, ON THE PROVISION OF RELIEF FOOD TO AREAS CUT OFF FROM THE REST OF CHAMA SOUTH

Mr Mung’andu(Chama South): Madam Speaker, I thank you and, indeed, the hon. Minister for Central Province and the hon. Minister for Livestock and Fisheries for acknowledging my presence.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I rise on this matter of urgent public importance on Her Honour the Vice-President. The people of Chama South, particularly the people of Buli, Pondo, Mwila and Mapamba areas are completely cut off from the rest of the district. In case my brother from the Southern Province is experiencing that cut-off for the first time, for the people in these areas, once it is December, they only access the rest of the district sometime around April the following year due to floods.

Madam Speaker, I have been appealing, on the floor of this House, and indicating that people in these areas are facing acute hunger situations. If the Government does not do something, probably within this week or by the end of next week, we will lose lives.

Madam Speaker, senior Chief Kambombo had a meeting with His Excellency, the President, over the same matter…

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

What is the matter of urgent public importance? Do not debate.

Mr Mung’andu: Thank you for your guidance, Madam Speaker. Senior Chief Kambombo had a meeting with His Excellency, the President, to echo what we tell the Executive regarding the situation in Chama North. When is our Government – this is our Government. I want to tell the hon. Member for Nkeyema who thinks it is his Government alone. It is our Government. When is our Government, …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, order!

Hon. Member for Chama South, please state the point. We have a lot of work to do today. Do not engage other hon. Members and in the process, attract some reactions. Just go to the point, raise it and then sit down when you have done that.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I am well guided. When is the New Dawn Government going to ensure that the people who need relief food are given before we start receiving reports of lost lives due to hunger?

I submit.

Madam Speaker: I think that concludes the matters of urgent public importance raised. I will start with the one raised by the hon. Member for Lundazi Parliamentary Constituency on Her Honour the Vice-President and the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development.

The issue of floods, which the hon. Member referred to, I believe, is the general state of affairs in the country. It is a matter that affects the general state of affairs of the country. There are floods in Chama South, Mumbwa, Kabwata and Kanyama and in the Southern Province. So, this is a matter that does not qualify to be raised as a matter of urgent public importance.

Further, the issue of fertiliser not having been delivered is a matter that happened some time back. It is not a matter of recent occurrence and, therefore, not admitted.

On the Mwense Dam, yesterday, the hon. Member for Lumezi raised a matter relating to the washing away of a road in Lumezi. So, the same applies to the Mwense Dam. If the dam has been washed away because of the rains, the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development is available; please, do engage him. The reason we raise matters of urgent public importance is to bring issues to the attention of the Government. However, if the Government is already aware and doing something, I believe, there is no reason it should be raised here as a matter of urgent public importance.

So, please, let us make sure that we follow-up with the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) and the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, and bring to their attention these challenges so that they can be addressed. Let us not wait until we can raise them as matters of urgent public importance. If we do so, we risk our people being affected negatively and corrective measures may take long to be actualised.

The next one was raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chama North. Yesterday, there was a question that was asked by the same hon. Member concerning power. I believe the hon. Minister of Energy was here and answered questions about the same power which is being imported from Malawi. In accordance with Standing Order 67, issues which are irrelevant or repetitious are not admissible. So, in the like manner, that matter is not admitted. The Government, I believe, is working on it. The hon. Minister was here yesterday and was asked questions. Therefore, he will resolve it. If he does not resolve it, please, go and see him again, hon. Member for Chama North.

With regard to the matter on Itezhi-Tezhi, the same statement about the general state of affairs in the country affecting – It is the rainy season and roads are being washed away. People have been cut off because bridges have been washed away by the rains. So, since the matter is the general state of affairs all over the country, it is not admitted.

The hon. Member for Kasenengwa raised a matter of urgent public importance on the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security concerning the issue of thieves that are causing havoc in Palabana, stealing animals. I must tell you that there are thieves even in Makeni.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: I found that while I was away, the whole electric fence around my house had been stolen. We are also not sleeping in that area. However, since the hon. Minister is here, and the hon. Member said that he had reported to him, maybe, he could shade some light on what measures are being taken to address the situation in Palabana.

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, in response to the issue that was raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kasenengwa, may I state that I am not privy to any information pertaining to the same. I have had no information whatsoever emanating from the area in issue. However, I have taken note of the issues that have been raised on the Floor of this House and I report I have had no communication with the hon. Member of Parliament on the same.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: So, hon. Member of Parliament for Kasenengwa, please, do engage the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. He will provide means and ways of attending to the situation. However, as a general comment, I think there is a lot of criminality around. We need the police do something. Even in relation to the junkies that people are talking about. Now, I am going out of the question.

I think, with regard to the junkies, it is because we are allowing people to be on the streets. So, junkies also are finding a reason to be on the street. Until we clear the streets, in my view, we will still continue having these common thieves and junkies threatening our lives. So, hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, please, do address the issues urgently.

Hon. Member of Parliament for Chama South, in your matter of urgent public importance, you said that this is a perennial problem. You have this problem, during the rainy season, of floods and people not getting food, and the DMMU is not assisting. I do not know whether you have taken steps to engage the DMMU. Further, since the matter has been recurring, it is a perennial problem and is not of recent occurrence, it cannot be raised as a matter of urgent public importance. However, you are called upon to engage the Office of the Vice-President to see how that issue can be addressed.

That concludes matters of urgent public importance. We can make progress and go to the next item.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: I am sorry. I forgot about the matter of urgent public importance raised by the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu. It was on the last page.

As regards the matter that has been raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu, concerning what he termed as a scandal at Kenneth Kaunda International Airport, where the lives of travellers were put at risk because some flights were not allowed to land at the scheduled time, he did not state why they were not allowed to land. They were circling in the air for about 30 minutes; these were the Qatar Airlines, Emirates and Proflight. The hon. Minister is not here to answer.

When we were travelling back from India, we could not land immediately. The reason that was given was that there was a storm at the airport. So, if there is a storm, surely, you do not expect the Captain or the airport authorities to force the plane to land. The fact that the plane did not land as scheduled is because there was a compelling reason to do with the weather. This is now rainy season and there are storms. If there is a storm, then the plane has to wait, unless the hon. Member has a good reason; was it because of negligence or what?

Hon. Kampyongo interjected

Madam Speaker: No, we are not going to engage. Maybe you should gather more information and then raise the issue.

Hon. Kampyongo Interjected

Madam Speaker: No. The hon. Minister should be given facts with which he should be able to investigate. If we just raise a matter which is not support by facts, we are giving the hon. Minister unnecessary work to go and investigate. He may come and say it was on account of the weather; then what do we say?

Maybe, hon. Member, you can go and find out. I will allow you, hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, to go and find out the reason the plane did not land. Once you do that, and there is justification in the reason, then the hon. Minister will be directed to make a ministerial statement. However, for now, I think your matter of urgent public importance is not well founded and is, therefore, not allowed.

Let us make progress.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

YOUTH INTERNSHIP AND APPRENTICESHIP PROGRAMME IN BWACHA CONSTITUENCY

117. Mr Mushanga (Bwacha) asked the Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts:

(a) whether all the youths who were under the Youth Internship and Apprenticeship Programme in Bwacha Parliamentary Constituency were paid their allowances, as of June, 2022;

(b) if they were not paid, why;

(c) how many youths were affected;

(d) how much money was owed to the affected youths; and

(e) when the affected youths will be paid.

The Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts (Mr Nkandu): Madam Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament may wish to note that, not every youth, intern or apprentice under Bwacha Parliamentary Constituency has been paid the allowances.

Madam Speaker, the ministry is still investigating the matter as to why some interns have not yet been paid. In most cases, bank details submitted by our interns had errors, which led to their accounts not being credited.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member may wish to note that only two youths from Bwacha Constituency have been affected.

Madam Speaker, the total amount for the two interns is K19,500 and this is broken down as follows:

Name Constituency Period worked Total Amount (K)

Sharon Shebele Bwacha January to May 7,500

Mimizan Mutinta Milambo Bwacha October to May 12,000

Total 19.500

Madam Speaker, I wish to say that the affected interns will be paid as soon as the verification process is completed.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mushanga: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the responses he has provided. In responding to part (b) of the question which says, “if they were not aid, why?”, the hon. Minister indicated that the ministry was still undertaking investigations or verifications. Knowing that there are only two interns as per the hon. Minister’s response, how long will it take for the ministry to undertake those investigations or verifications, especially that there are only two people? What duration is the hon. Minister attaching to the verifications or investigations?

Madam Speaker, I also want to thank Her Honour the Vice-President for coming to Bwacha Parliamentary Constituency.

Mr Katambo indicated.

Madam Speaker. Before the hon. Minister answers the question, there is an indication for a point of order by the hon. Member of Parliament for Masaiti.

A point of order is raised.

Mr Katambo (Masaiti):Madam Speaker, it is actually a supplementary question to the hon. Minister’s responses.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, you indicated it as a point of order. You will be will be given an opportunity to ask. May the hon. Minister respond to a supplementary question by the hon. Member for Bwacha.

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, I wish to say that, in fact, we have concluded the investigations. For example, in the case of Mimizan Mutinta Milambo, whom we owe K12,500, by the time we discovered that she was above the requirement age, she had already worked for some time. So, from the investigations, we concluded that we stopped her from working. In fact, we were not supposed to even give her the K12,500 after the investigations because at one point, she stopped work. So, as for the duration of the investigations, we have already concluded that issue. All we are waiting for is to pay the other intern what is due to her for the period that she worked under the internship programme.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, in his response, the hon. Minister indicated that one of the interns could not be paid because investigations verified that she was above the age requirement. Could the hon. Minister kindly share with this august House and through this august House, the nation as to what the age requirement is for one to be eligible to participate in that internship programme. Could he also share what the future of that programme is, as he has mentioned that it is one of those programmes he found to be helpful to the youths?

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, the age requirement is between eighteen to thirty-five years. I wish to state that we had launched this programme and just ss the hon. Member has rightly put it, it is a very good programme. Under the National Youth Development Strategy, we have the internship apprenticeship and volunteer programme. So, on 7^th December, together with our colleagues from the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP), we launched and also advertised this programme. For now, we are looking for about 2,000 interns because the money for that is readily available. We are also talking to the co-operating partners “the private sector” to also join in and assist us with resource mobilisation so that we can increase the number.

Madam Speaker, we received overwhelming applications from the young people in all the districts. We received about 36,500 applications but unfortunately, we are only looking for 2,000 people. This shows the high rate of unemployment that we inherited from the previous regime. Therefore, as the New Dawn Administration, we are doing everything possible to make sure that we alleviate the unemployment levels among the youths. Right now, our officers are busy scrutinising these applications in all the districts. I can confirm that every district participated in the programme.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Katambo: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has stated the K19,500 and the period that those two interns by the names of Sharon and Mutinta worked. This means that the ministry has done its audits and verifications. The two interns keep trooping to the hon. Member for Bwacha Constituency asking for their payment. In short, what advice will the hon. Minister give to the hon. Member of Parliament for Bwacha to give to Sharon and Mutinta?

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, that question should not even have come from the hon. Member for Bwacha because we have been interacting. I have been talking about this issue with him. I have already advised that I gave him numbers so that the affected individual can contact us. So, the advice is that let that intern contact us using the numbers I gave the hon. Member for Bwacha. I believe he also shared those numbers so that we can conclude this issue before we start another programme.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mushanga: Madam Speaker, it is true that I have been conversing with the hon. Minister of Youth, Sports and Arts over the same matter. However, the question was submitted to Parliament before we started conversing.

Madam Speaker, the response that the hon. Minister has given to Hon. Kampyongo is that the age group for the interns is eighteen to thirty-five years. For the interest of my office as Member of Parliament and the general public out there because this matter is in public domain, how old was the Zambian citizen who was found to be over age? This is for the interest of the hon. Members of Parliament and the people listening out there.

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, I am not able to tell the age of that individual, but what is clear is that she is over thirty-five. So, the age requirement for the interns is eighteen to thirty-five, and someone above thirty-five is over age. She can be 100 or 2,000 years old, as long as she is over thirty-five, she is over age.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: It is clear that the question has been overtaken by events, but I am sure the hon. Member for Bwacha can follow up on the two youths who have not been paid. I am sure he can have this matter concluded as soon as possible.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Kabwata an opportunity to ask a question.

Madam Speaker, for the sake of clarity, how much are the interns paid? I would like to know exactly the amount that the interns receive, as this will give us an opportunity to know how much they are paid.

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, in fact, I will come to this House to render a ministerial statement on the National Youth Development Strategy that encompasses empowerment programmes like the internship programme itself. However, to answer the question, previously, the interns were being given K1,500. For the next programme, we will be giving each individual between K1,500 and K2,500every month.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

PLANS TO ELECTRIFY THE SHORES OF LAKE KARIBA

118. Mr Simuzingili (Gwembe) asked the Minister of Energy:

whether the Government has any plans to electrify the shores of Lake Kariba from Siavonga to Sinazongwe via Gwembe, in order to foster tourism development;
if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
what the estimated cost of the project is.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housingand Urban Development (Eng. Milupi) (on behalf ofthe Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala)): Madam Speaker, the Government of the Republic of Zambia, through the Rural Electrification Authority (REA), has plans to electrify Lake Kariba shores.

Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government is aware and recognises the sacrifices that the people of Gwembe, Siavonga and Sinazongwe made during the construction of the Kariba Dam. To this effect, REA will conduct feasibility studies in the fourth quarter of 2023. This will inform and ascertain the costs and timelines of the implementation of the project.

Madam Speaker, the estimated cost of the project will be established once the feasibility studies are conducted.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simuzingili: Madam Speaker, it is nice to have the New Dawn Government, which acknowledges the sacrifices the people made during the construction of the Kariba Dam, and I thank the hon. Minister.

Madam Speaker, our people have been going to Dubai to enjoy the islands and beautiful places, forgetting that there are beautiful places on the stretch from Siavonga to Sinazongwe. If we enhance that area in the manner that the hon. Minister has indicated, we will have a lot of foreign exchange coming from that area. Thank you so much. I am a very happy Member of Parliament, by the way.

Madam Speaker: Since that was not a question but a comment, I am sure the acting hon. Minister has taken note of that.

Mr Sialubalo (Sinazongwe): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me an opportunity to ask a follow-up question.

Madam Speaker, the people of the valley are very happy in view of the opportunity that the hon. Minister wants to accord them. It has taken a long time to do that. It takes a prudent Government like that of the New Dawn to acknowledge the sacrifices that the people along the Zambezi and Lake Kariba shores made to have what is now called Kariba electrification.

Madam Speaker, now that the Government of President Hakainde Hichilema is willing to give us electricity, is the Ministry of Energy going to work hand in hand with the Ministry ofLocal Governmentand Rural Development, bearing in mind that some areas are inaccessible, in terms of the road network? Is the hon. Minister of Energy going to work hand in hand with the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural development to open up the lake shores?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I think the hon. Member for Sinazongwe is now abusing me, as Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, by sliding in another question. Whether we are to work hand in hand with the Ministry Local Government and Rural Development, please understand that we are one Government and everything that we do, all ministries are involved. However, for this question, it is about taking electricity to the area which we said something would be done.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: We have another question from a Member of Parliament from a constituency in the valley.

Mr Mulunda (Siavonga): Madam Speaker this is exciting. As hon. Members from constituencies in valley areas, we appreciate that the New Dawn Government has realised the sacrifices that have been put up by the people in valley areas, like my colleague had put it. Basically, the main activity of the people in the valley areas is fishing. What has been hampering the people in Siavonga, Sinazongwe, Gwembe and many other areas is the storage of fish. When you do not have electricity, you are forced to dry your fish or to rush it to the market. However, with the coming of electricity, we say that we are so excited and happy and we are comforted by that. To go a little further, the hon. Minister stated that he was going to do a feasibility study in the fourth quarter. Can the hon. Minister give us some comfort by telling us when he thinks this project will commence other than the feasibility study?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member is fully aware that the Government of His Excellency, President Hakainde Hichilema, does things methodically ...

Laugher

Eng. Milupi: ... therefore, a task such as electrifying the lakeshore area requires that it be analysed and a feasibility study undertaken. The fact that we are saying that this will be done by the last quarter, which is the fourth quarter of this year, is indicative of our resolve to ensure that this matter is resolved in the positive. It is this study that will determine, as I said, the cost and the timelines. The timelines refer to the start of electrification and the end of that programme. So, hon. Member, bear with the New Dawn Government.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

CONSTRUCTION OF CHIBALE BOARDING SCHOOL IN CHAMA NORTH

119. Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North)asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

why the construction of Chibale Boarding School in Chama North Parliamentary Constituency, which is at 85 per cent completion, has stalled;
when the project will resume;
what the total cost of the outstanding works is; and
what the time frame for the completion of the project is.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the construction of Chibale Baoding School, which was at 85 per cent completion, stalled due to funding constraints and delayed payments.

Madam Speaker, the project will resume by the end of next month and the cost of completing the outstanding works at Chibale Boarding School, as of December 2022, was K15,343,953.47.

Madam Speaker, the estimated time frame for the project completion is by end of second quarter 2023.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, by this time Chibale Boarding should be at more than 90 percent completion. A few minutes ago, I had a chart with Mr Wang, the contractor for the same project. He said that by the end of next month the project will be done. What is remaining is just the connection of water and electricity. So, I appeal to the Government that it expedites the process. Children are travelling 200 km from Chibale to access the boarding school in Chama. So, it is my appeal that as quickly as possible, the works be done. That is a state-of-the-art school and if we delay, the school is going to be vandalised.

Madam Speaker: It is an appeal. I think that this question might have been overtaken by events. It must have been submitted some time back. I do not know if the hon. Minister has any comments on the appeal.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, first of all, let me recognise the fact that the hon. Member for Chama North recognises the hard work and resolve of the New Dawn Government to serve the people of Zambia wherever they are. The answers I have given are what they are. If we can achieve quicker close times, we shall definitely do that.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

PLANS TO CONSTRUCT THE CHIPETE/KALASA/KANDO ROAD IN CHEMBE DISTRICT

120. Mr C. Mpundu (Chembe)asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

whether the Government has any plans to construct the Chipete/Kalasa/Kando Road in Chembe District;
if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Madam Speaker, let me inform him and the House that the Government has always had plans to construct the Chipete/Kalasa/Kando Road in Chembe District. As at the time when the question was paused to the ministry, the Chipete/Kalasa/Kando Road was among the feeder road projects currently being implemented under the maintenance of selected roads in Chembe District of Luapula Province.

Madam, the current status of this road is that it was constructed for 70 km only and the contract had been awarded to company called Professional Engineering Contractors Ltd.

Madam Speaker, as we speak, this is among the contracts whose status was terminated due to Treasury budgetary constraints. I wish to state that once we normalise the debt portfolio of all works under my ministry that had been contracted out and also awarded beyond the budgetary provisions, we are going to resume the maintenance works on these roads.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr C. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, the road in question is a very important road, especially to the community in that the health facility is at the end of the same road which is about 70 km. As I am speaking, the people are cut-off and they cannot access health services and the cut-off is on five points, which are serious. So, you can see how desperate the communities are. I do not know what quick measures the Government will take or how long it will expedite the process of ensuring that the contractor is back on site to work on this road.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, let me just assure the hon. Member of Parliament for Chembe that that feeling is mutual. I also sympathise with the people of Chembe whose five crossing points have been washed away.

Madam, when I was driving here, I heard you responding to one of the hon. Members of Parliament who was speaking to the issue of excessive rainfall this season and the state of affairs vis-a-vis flooding and the washing away of roads. This is a disaster which requires us to pay particular attention to each situation according to its merit.

Madam Speaker, I stated in my maiden response that it is as a result of budgetary constraints, which budgetary constraints were occasioned by our erstwhile governors; our friends from the Patriotic Front (PF). I have said it before and I will say it again. It is not that I am apportioning blame, but they must be reminded at every given time and every step of the way that this is a result of over procurement of roads in this particular sector where they procured roads worth more than K12.9 billion against the budgetary provision of K1.3 billion over three years. We cannot do magic about that. This is a situation that must be accepted and that there was recklessness on the part of our colleagues. Further, each time we put ourselves on record, such as I have, that time has come to stop blaming the PF because we know what it did. I still stand by that, but they must not be insulated from being reminded of what they did. So, we cannot do magic. We have to live within the provisions of the Budget.

So, my answer is that please, bring on those crossing points so that we see what can be done for our people to remain connected to the health facilities and education facilities that he is talking about. I hope that we can bring this to the fore of our conscience that this was a problem that was created where people got advance payments, and in many cases, they did not do the work. I do not know, but maybe, we should translate this explanation that I have made over and over on the Floor of this House in vernacular so that our people can understand that these questions, important as they are, will attract the same answer. They over procured roads recklessly and they themselves failed to pay for these particular roads.

Madam, at the time we took over office, we found what they call Interim Payments Certificates (IPCs) some of which were fraudulently obtained where they colluded with council officers to issue them even when roads were not done.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, thank you. You are very kind for permitting me on behalf of the good and kind people of Lumezi to make a follow-up question on behalf of the kind people of Chembe.

Madam Speaker, on several occasions, you have guided that maybe, we should approach …

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member Lumezi, just a moment. This is an indication for a point of order from the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu. What sis the point of order?

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I am raising this point of order pursuant to Standing Order No: 65.

Madam Speaker, our colleagues must know by now that they are responsible for running state affairs. We are not. Therefore, when people are asking for the services, it is on their shoulders. You can remind us as many times as you can, but people are waiting to receive their services.

Madam Speaker, in response to the question posed by the hon. Member for Chembe, Hon. Mpundu, who sought to know when his people would want to get the road done so that they can access health services, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development opted to start sharing unverified information with us, of people who were colluding to falsify interim certificates for works that were not done.

Madam, we are not a law enforcement agency. This is a different place. The hon. Minister should have been responded to the questions as they were put to him. Is he in order to bring unverified information on the Floor of this House of people were making falsified interim certificates and are not arrested instead of providing responses which the people are seeking from this Government which they voted for because they will not use those excuses for a long time.

Madam Speaker: Order!

The hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development was answering the question and he was amplifying the reasons the road cannot be done.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Since he is the hon. Minister responsible for this ministry, there is some information that he is privy to which we have no knowledge of. So, I see no reason to fault him or find him out of order because he was just responding to a question and amplifying it. So, the hon. Minister is not out of order.

The hon. Member for Lumezi may proceed.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, before the interruptionthrough the point of order, I was about to say that you have guided, on several occasions,that at times,we should attempt to engage the Executive before we raise matters on the Floor of the House. I must state here that it is easier to access you than most of our colleagues in the Executive.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munir Zulu: That is a fact. We should not hide under the banner of saying let us interact with hon. Ministers away from the Floor of this House because they are not easily accessible, apart from, maybe, two or three.

So, the hon. Minister, in his response, mentioned that the contract was terminated. When the contract was terminated, it meant that the contractor’s obligations came to an end. We have been told on the Floor of this House before that they shall name and shame. We have not seen the naming.

Madam Speaker, as regards the contract that was terminated in Chembe, should the Government find resources, is it going to give it to the same contractor or it shall be re-advertise it?

Madam Speaker: On the accessibility of hon. Ministers to hon. Members of Parliament, both from the Opposition and Ruling Party, I am sure you meet each other every time in the afternoon here at Parliament Buildings. So, if hon. Ministers are not picking up calls, at least, you have an opportunity to see them from here. You can try to access them while we are in the House. I think it is easier that way.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: An appeal to hon. Ministers; please, make yourselves accessible to hon. Members.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity. As regards accessibility to hon. Ministers at offices, homes and here in the Chamber, I can state that I am one of the most accessible hon. Ministers to all these colleagues. I can make that claim.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: I can also claim, unless my memory serves me incorrectly, and if it does, I apologise, that Hon. Munir Zulu maybe the only hon. Member of Parliament who has never been to my office. However, according to me, I think, he has been, once or so. I think he is the only one who has not been to my office and, probably, the only one I have not served a cup of tea, personally.

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, he asks me whether, when we resume works on these contracts, Professional Engineering Contractors Ltd will be given the first right of refusal; that is what it is called in contract terms. Yes, as long as Professional Engineering Contractors Ltd remains in our good books as one of the companies that performed their obligation in accordance with the terms and references of that contract, it enjoys the first right of refusal. Meaning,it will be the first one to be considered. If it cannot take up the contract, we will open it up to advertisement. I hope that is a sufficient answer for the colleague. It will have the first right of refusal.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Speaker, I listened to the hon. Minister and I am making a follow-upbased on the answer given by my brother, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, on the collusion of engineers who were signing Interim Payment Certificates (IPCs) without works being done. Bearing in mind that some of those consulting engineersand contractors are sitting with him as hon. Ministers, ...

Laughter

Mr Chitotela: ... why can he not just engage them so that he does not embarrass them on the Floor of the House because they feel uncomfortable when he speaks like that?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, we are believers in the right to privacy. We also have reviewed all those contracts. If my colleague, brother and friend, Hon. Chitotela, has information relating to an hon.Minister who is an engineering consultant for any company, let him, please, bring it forward. We will look at the performance of that contract and see whether or not he/she did his/her work. Let me just amplify this. We are bound by an obligation for a declaration of interest if we are doing business with the Government. There is no crime in anyone doing business with the Government as long as one duly signs the declaration of interest.

Mr Chibuye: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Having said so, there are many here (pointing at the PF Bench) whom I know have been road contractors.However, I have searched high and low to find those declarations of interest, and not seen them. There are many.

Madam Speaker, let me tag on to Hon. Munir Zulu’s question.If we decided to play hard and fast, just on account of people failing to declare interest that they have been doing business with the Government and getting pecuniary advantage over their positions, that would be trouble enough.

Madam Speaker, I think people must learn now to accept the situation and allow us to run at the pace that the wheel of justice isrunning. If we decide to go fast, we will be the way other people were;who could easily, giving myself as a perfect example, take in a colleague for a heinous crime of murder when there was no evidence whatsoever of being in contact with the person who was slain. They did that. It was clear how they could take somebody in for treason when he was a passenger in a traffic outrage. It was clear. That is how they worked those ones here (pointing at the PF Bench).

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Nkombo:Madam,I will not say that look at them.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

I think that now, we are getting out of the question.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker:No, no, no. Let us not become political. Let us stick to the questions.

Mr Munir Zulu indicated to speak.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Lumezi, you have already asked a question, unless it is a point of order.

Mr Munir Zulu: It is a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I rise on Standing Order 65 which states that the information we give on this Floor must be factual and verifiable. I must mention that in the New Dawn Government, the only ministry that I have visited and accommodated is Local Government and Rural Development. That was before the hon. Minister shifted into his new office. Hon. Garry Nkombo should not be satisfied with the new building he is occupying and mislead the House that I have never been to his office. I have been to his office because the issues of the constituency that I represent, Lumezi, are mostly on local government and tourism. I have never been to the Ministry of Tourism because the hon. Minister ignores my calls and is not accommodative.

Laughter

Mr Munir Zulu: So, is Hon. Nkombo in order to mislead the House?

Laughter

Madam Speaker: So, the fact that the hon. Member for Lumezi has confirmed that he has been to the office of the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development means that the hon. Minister is accessible. So, he is not out of order. He was just reminding those hon. Members who said that hon. Ministers were not accessible. There is no point of order there.

Can we make progress.

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Madam Speaker, happy Chinese New Year.

Laughter

Dr Mwanza: Madam Speaker,the contract on this road in question, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development has testified, was terminated. Now, in any contract, when there is termination, there are always penalties, liquidated damages or whatever is stated in the contract. Either the client or the contractor is on the defaulting side. Now, for this particular road contract, what are the penalties involved and who is liable to pay?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, a contract is bilateral or multilateral depending on how many parties are involved in it. Yes, there are many clauses in a contract, including the exit clause or force majeure, if they want to call it “the act of God”. This particular contract is among all the contracts, to the exclusion of none, that we decided wise to cancel. We cancelled everything.

Madam Speaker, why did we cancel? I said it in my maiden answer that it was not sustainable because the contracts were over procured against a non-exiting budget. There was no abracadabra or magic that we could have done to pay for works that were not done, shoddy or half way done. Of all the 242 contractors, 90 per cent were Patriotic Front (PF) members. I want to be categorical about that.

Mr Nkandu: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, 90 per cent of those contractors were PF members and some ofthem are here. Madam Speaker, where have you seen that in the world?

Mr Nkandu: Yes!

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, we have now reached a point where we know that a contract is a two-way thing. When one defaults, he must face the consequences. Right? I am now using this Floor to challenge anyone who is aggrieved about the cancellation of these contracts to proceed to court.

Mr Nkandu: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, firstly, I know why most of them have been failing to even approach my office. I know that in many cases, even the tender procurement procedures were not followed properly. I just talked about the issue of declaration of interest. In many cases, this was not done. The following of tender procedures was not done. These contracts were just given anyhow. Shani, ulishani, meaning, how you are? Wise ku office, which means, come to the office. Nalakupela contract, which means, I will give a contract.

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, as things stand, it is me who has been on the pedestal saying, “Just come, this is your office. Come, let us have a discussion. Let us talk. Let us find out how this contract was awarded to you, and how you performed in this contract.” There are some who performed and there is no doubt about it, but there were pseudo contractors in there, who got contracts and were paid 10 per cent of their money. I do not know where they took that money but there were allegations that it was cyclic. You pay and the money comes back for self preservation of a political party.

The bottom line, hon. Member for Kaumbwe, is that he who is aggrieved is the one who approaches the court. Let them take us to court and we will meet there, then the ball game will have started.

Mr Nkandu: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, they have cold feet and I am saying this very confidently. To even raise a finger to say, “Why have you terminated a contract?” they have cold feet because they know what they did.

Madam Speaker, as I end, let me say that white collar crime is a difficult one. That is why I said, “let the wheels of justice continue turning” because if I am dared to mention a name, it may be true that that person is a contractor who performed or the opposite. So, we are not in the business of rushing things the way they were rushing. I said it already that mulandusiuola. This means that a case does not go stale.

Madam Speaker, once we find the actual evidence of what we have been looking for, we will meet them at court. They should pray for themselves because some of them may end up behind.

Madam Speaker, I say it again that we have done enough. We know that some people are nowhere in the front of their companies, but they are signatories in the banks. What does that tell you? I rest my case.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chitotela: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, thank you –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Before the hon. Member for Lunte comes in, there is an indication for a point of order by the hon. Member for Pambashe.

A point of order is raised.

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, I am rising on a point of order based on a very popular Standing Order No. 65. I think this also relates to your earlier guidance to the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development. The people of Zambia listen and follow the deliberations of this House. Is the hon. Minister in order to continue issuing a blanket statement by stating that 90 per cent of the contracts were awarded to Patriotic Front (PF) members?

Madam Speaker, as I stand here, I am the one who superintended over one of the ministries and I know many of my brothers and sisters in the United Party for National Development (UPND), some of whom are seated here, who were contractors and were receiving –

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Chitotela: Do not dare me mention names of some hon. Ministers here.

Ms Mulenga:Emo muli, ichongweni!

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

I think that is not the route that we should take. Let us not politicise the whole question. It is a simple question. Let us leave it as such. If anybody was involved, the hon. Minister has said that you will meet in court. So, people will know when you meet in court. Let us not debate ourselves, please.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: The hon. Minister has said that some Patriotic Front (PF) members were involved and the hon. Member for Pambashe is saying that some United Party for National Development (UPND) members were involved. So, people have heard both sides of the story. Let us now make progress. All those allegations have been made. So, let us make progress. The hon. Member for Lunte may continue.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, even though the Lusaka City Council is under the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, it has got nothing to do with the rural.

Madam Speaker, my concern is on hon. Minister’s statement with regard to the declaration of interest. I think it is very important to have clear guidelines in terms of declaration of interest.

Madam Speaker, let me give an example. If the hon. Minister has a company which sells suits and there is an event like the African Union (AU) Summit and his company supplies suits to Cabinet Office, he is the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development and not responsible for Cabinet Office. Is he required to declare interest? If he is not required, according to either the law or the Government procedure, then it will be important for him to declare the hon. Ministers who presided over the ministry he is presiding over, who actually, abused their authority without declaring interesting. Does he have such indications?

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, the only problem that I see is that we are now getting out of the question. What is the relevance of supply of suits to the road?

Ms Mulenga: It is an example.

Madam Speaker: No, we are not going to engage into that. Let us make progress. The issue of declaring interest was in relation to the construction of roads and it was just an example. Anyway, maybe, let us give the hon. Member for Lunte a chance to finish his question for the hon. Minister to answer.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, as I pose a question to the hon. Minister, it is key that you as the Presiding Officer, you are clear about my question. If for any reason, he does not respond to part of my question, you will remind him that the Member for Lunte wants you to address this aspect. So, let me be clear.

Madam Speaker: No, I got the question. If I am not clear, I will check the verbatim. I am sure the hon. Minister has gotten your question. So, there is no need to repeat it or do you want to rub it in?

Mr Kafwaya: Not rub it in, but I just want to be clear so that the House can fully benefit from my –

Madam Speaker: I am sure the House has heard.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Energy required to declare interest if he has a contract with the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security? That is the question. If not, then there is cause for the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development to indicate to the House and the nation that there was a Minister of Local Government who got contracts from the same ministry. That is the gist of my question.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I am fortunate that I have been here for a long time, as a Member of the legislative wing of the Government. So, as an ordinary Member of Parliament like my colleague from Lunte, in every parliamentary meeting, you are given a yellow and white form which you lodge at the Supreme Court of Zambia declaring your assets and liabilities. On that form, there is a question where you are required to state whether you are conducting business with the Government. So, as Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, if I am doing business with the Ministry of Agriculture, the Government is one, and I am required to declare interest that I do business with the Government. Even if you are a Member of the legislative wing of the Government such as the hon. Members on the left, you are required to declare interest because you draw a pay from the same Government.

Madam Speaker, I do not know how it works with the civil servants, but I suspect the principle is the same. If you work for the Government, you are mandated to indicate that you actually do business transactions with the Government. To crystallise the question and as an example, some members of the Patriotic Front (PF) are in court today for doing business with the Government without declaring interest. Declaring that I am doing business with the Government is called honesty. Even when I cut invoices and you see money coming from the Ministry of X and X, I would have declared interest. A leader is first a Zambian who is entitled to do business, but he/she must declare interest. Otherwise, in normal societies, many people get into trouble for failing to do that simple task that does not cost a thing. So, taking advantage of this opportunity, if you intend to do business some time in future, make sure at the point you are geared, you declare interest. Go to the High Court, it does not cost a thing. Ask them for a form so you can indicate that you have now become a businessman.

Madam Speaker, many people got into trouble just for – during the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID–19) pandemic, there was a high demand for facemasks like the one you are wearing. Some people forgot they were civil servants and politicians They were running to the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) to supply overpriced facemasks worth millions of Kwacha without declaring interest. Today, the law enforcers are following them over a simple thing; a facemask. They should have declared interest.

Madam Speaker, I hope I have been clear to my hon. Colleague from Lunte. I am Minister of Local Government and Rural Development. Even cities are Local Government, so is Lunte a rural area or a Local Government? I am in charge of traditional affairs and I look after hon. Members.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: We are now drifting into something else, and it seems it is time for free debate.

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order 65.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development when responding to my colleague referred to the declaration made when one is appointed to a constitutional office, which is a once-off declaration deposited with the Chief Justice. However, the declaration of interest as far as transactions are concerned is an ongoing exercise. So, you cannot utilise the declaration required by the Act for those who are appointed. It does not mean ordinary hon. Members. Let us read the laws, which we enact in this place. The requirement referred to is only for those appointed to constitutional offices where one can abuse authority.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister, therefore, in order to mislead this august House and the nation at large that the declaration that is made by constitutional office holders when they are appointed to those offices is what covers those in authority who would like to transact with the Government? Is the hon. Minister in order to make such a misleading statement and to misinterpret the Act he referred to?

I seek your serious guidance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, as I said, we are drifting away from the question. In terms of declaring interest, let us acquaint ourselves with the provisions of the law so we can understand when declaration of interest should be made. We should also be compliant, and do that every year, and not once off. This is a general debate. So, I do not want to find anyone out of order. We are all learning from each other.

Let us make progress.

WATER SUPPLY TO KALABO TOWNSHIP

121. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Water Development and Sanitation:

why the water that is supplied to Kalabo Township in Kalabo District is brown in colour;
whether the water is fit for human consumption; and
what measures the Government is taking to make the water clear.

The Minister of Water Development and Sanitation (Mr Mposha): Madam Speaker, the water that is supplied to Kalabo Township in Kalabo District is brown in colour only during the rainy season when the turbidity of the raw water in Luanginga River is high. Luanginga River is the main source of water for the said district.

Madam Speaker, the water is, indeed, fit for human consumption because it is treated and meets the required water quality standards as set by the Zambia Bureau of Standards (ZABS) and the World Health Organisation (WHO), and as enforced by the National Water Supply and Sanitation Council (NWASCO).

Madam Speaker, the Government has already undertaken measures by procuring equipment and has since commenced the installation of the new water treatment equipment for the Kalabo Water Treatment Plant, which will assist in making the water being supplied much clear than it is now.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, we have lived with that water situation for some time. So, usually when it comes to drinking water, we rush to homes and offices that have boreholes. The water supplied by the Western Water and Sewerage Company is used for washing plates and other chores. We do not use it as drinking water.

Madam, the hon. Minister stated that there is a practicalmeasure being put in place of installing equipment to make the water clearer. We are yet to see the New Dawn Government creatinga change that has not been made for decades. This is 2023.Is the hon. Minister assuring the people of the township that by the end of December this year, the coloured water will be a thing of the past and forgotten?

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, as I answer the question, let me add that I had an opportunity to undertake a tour of Kalabo District, and visited the abstraction point, which is our main source of water in Kalabo District. Beyond that, I also had an opportunity to visit various parts of the Western Province such asNkeyema, Kaoma, Mongu, Nalolo, Sesheke, Senanga, Katima Mulilo, and Mwandi Constituency to appreciate the challenges our people are facing in terms of water and sanitation,and to push the current project so that it is completed in time.

Madam Speaker,let me assure the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo Central that in the new project, which we intend to embark on in the district, we intend to address the challenges created at the point at whichthe water is abstracted. Our experts in the ministryin their brief stated that the water at that point, depending on the time or period, moves in diverse directions and that tends to stir the water thereby creating the brownish colour. As we come up with the new treatment plant, we intend to deal with the issue of the source so that we can avert the problem.

Madam Speaker, I may not say that by the end of December 2023, we would have finished the project. However,let me assure the hon.Member of Parliament, and the good people of Kalabo that the project will commence and run within 2023. In terms of completion, may I ask the hon. Member of Parliament to bear with us as it may not be December,but will do everything possible to ensure that most of the works are done within the year 2023.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chitotela: Thank you Madam Speaker. I remember that in 2019, the hon. Member for Kalabo Central, Mr Miyutu, came with a bottle of water, which was brown in colour. Later, the World Bank Water Project for the Western Province began. So, it is very surprising that even up to today, the people of Kalabo today –

Hon. UPND Members: Patriotic Front (PF)!

Mr Chitotela:Do not blame the PF when you have been in office one year and seven months. You founda project that was already running under the World Bank …

Interruptions

MsMulenga:ikalenipanshi ba Miyutu!

Mr Chitotela:… from 2020, yet you have not paid attention to rectifying the problem in Kalabo Central, where people have been drinking brown water.

MsMulenga: He is just at Parliament.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Mr Chitotela:Madam Speaker, what assurance is the hon.Minister of Water Development and Sanitation giving to the people of Kalabo? In the same way we saw the launch of the borehole project to supply clean water for the people of Nkeyema district on television, why has the hon. Minister not embarked on a similar project in Kalabo? Like the hon. Member of Parliament said, the water that is drawn from the borehole is clearer and cleaner than the source you are insinuating that machinery will be bought to process the water.You are not even giving the assurance that by the end of this year, the people of Kalabo will have access to clean and clear drinking water. Why can you not consideran industrial borehole that may give the people of Kalabo clean and clear water?

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, Ithank the hon. Member of Parliament for Pambashe for that question and I assure him that we are in a hurry to clean up and sort out the problems they left behind.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, to undertake the tour of the Western Province was a challenge beginning with the state of the roads.Travelling through Sesheke, Mwandi, Kaoma going to Mongu,there is no road worth talking about. I am happy that I am being asked this question by the former hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, talking about water, the people of the Western Province, other than the bad water in Kalabo, have also seen that the people on your leftleft the people in Mwandi Districtdrinking salty water. In Nalolo, the people are drinking water which contains iron. Obviously, they would want to come here to tell us that they did many things to address these challenges. Let me just assure him that we are addressing the problems. Very soon, we will be addressing problems at IluteYeta Secondary School in Mwandi where over 4500 pupils are being subjected to drinking salty water. This is a problem that did not start one year four months ago, but it has been there for the ten years that the former hon. Minister was in office.

Madam Speaker, I have looked at all these problems,and we are doing everything possible to ensure that resources are directed there and the pupils at IluteYetaSecondary School must start receiving clear water. We must also deal with the problem of water which is over-contaminatedby iron for the people of Nalolo.

Madam Speaker, in Kalabo, we are changing the source of water at the current point where the water has high turbidity. Usually, this happens during the rainy season. So, we would want to move to an area where the water we will be abstracting will have low turbiditythroughout the year, and ensure that we scale up the treatment of this water so that the quality is improved. So, the hon. Member for Pambasheis assured that within 2023, the works will start and we hope we can finish them in good time so that the people can derive the benefits of the project we are starting in Kalabo central.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for allowing the people of Kaumbwe to ask the hon. Minister a follow-up question. From the hon. Minister’s explanation about the water being brown in Kalabo, I am alive to the fact that the turbidity levels on the raw water intake, which is the source, are very high during the rainy season. Is he able to confirm that the good people of Kalabo will enjoy the normal colour of water during the dry season, when the turbidity levels are low?

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, yes, I can confirm, as earlier indicated in my response, that high turbidity is the brownish colour of water. So, when the water turns very brownish, that is the turbidity we are talking about. So, during the rainy season, at a raw intake in Kalabo District in Luanginga River, the water normally has high turbidity. However, during the dry season, we experience low turbidity. So, what we are saying is that in the new project, particularly at the current abstraction point, we are trying to move the intake point and hopefully, this can resolve the situation but of course, with the scaling up of treatment of the said water.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, I would like to believe that as opposed to the notion that has been created that that water has only existed for ten years, it should have been there maybe from independence. One of the factors that the hon. Minister mentioned was iron, and the water quality has to be analysed. If I got him rightly, he said the iron levels are also disturbing. That being the case, what technology, having learnt from the past, is the Government involving in making sure that the water is purified for human consumption?

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, clearly, the hon. Member of Parliament from Chilubi did not get my response clearly, but I will still answer.

Madam Speaker, the iron content in the water was attributed to the other districts of the Western Province and in particular, Nalolo District. I also talked about the salt water which the people of Mwandi are consuming. So, that is again another district but within the Western Province.

Madam Speaker, in terms of technology, there are various measures that we have to put in place. In certain instances, when it comes to ground water, we have to drill boreholes deeper than the current intake point so that hopefully, we can go past the layer which is giving us a lot of content. So, we need our experts to go and get the samples to ascertain at what point we are abstracting. If it is salt water, at what point are we abstracting salt water? If it is iron water, at what point –

Madam Speaker, the question has been asked and the hon. Member is busy chatting.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, can we listen to the answer so that we do not ask the same questions. May the hon. Minister continue.

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I was saying that there are various interventions that we can put in place. Firstly, it is to pick the samples to ascertain at what level we are abstracting water highly contaminated with iron. If it is salt water, you get the sample and what would happen then is that if the water is being abstracted around 60m or 65m, you may have to drill deeper to about 100m or 120m. Hopefully, you can pick another layer where there is less or absolutely no iron or salt content. However, in certain instances, if you find that all your points of ground water are contaminated with iron at that particular point, you may have to get other samples slightly away from that point and hopefully you can get a clear point.

Madam Speaker, if that fails, then there maybe need to look at a surface water source, which is free of iron or salt. So, these are some of the measures that we may have to put in place. In certain instances, you introduce certain filters that will be able to filter the water heavily and take out the iron. This is because what normally happens with this water which is contaminated with iron is once it mixes with oxygen, then the colour changes into a deeper brown or red and no one would want to consume or use water with that kind of colour. I hope I have answered the question.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

OPENING OF THE TAZARA CORRIDOR MUNG’ANG’A RESETTLEMENT LIVESTOCK CENTRE

122. Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Fisheries and Livestock:

when the TAZARA Corridor Mung’ang’a Resettlement Livestock Centre in Chief Luchembe’s Chiefdom in Kanchibiya District will be opened to the public; and
what the cause of the delay in opening the Centre is.

The Minister of Fisheries and Livestock (Mr Chikote): Madam Speaker, I wish to take this opportunity to inform the hon. Member of Parliament for Kanchibiya Constituency and, indeed, the people of Chief Luchembe’s Chiefdom in Kanchibiya District that TAZARA Corridor Mung’ang’a Resettlement Livestock Service Centre is complete and operational. I personally visited the service centre in the company of the area Member of Parliament, on the 23^rd of April, 2022.

I wish to confirm that the centre currently has two members of staff; a livestock technician and a veterinary assistant. The facility is comprised of two houses, one office block, a shelter and a dip tank. It is currently offering extension services to farmers through extension meetings and fodder demonstration among others. The dip tank is, however, not operational as it was discovered to have seepage. The farmers have, in this regard, been advised to use spraying and pour-on methods for the time being until the dip tank is repaired.

Madam Speaker, as indicated in the response to part (a), the facility is complete and operational. Therefore, part (b) of the question falls off.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Businesswas suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MADAM SPEAKERin the Chair]

Mr Chanda: Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to ask a supplementary question. Let me confirm that the hon. Minister of Fisheriesand Livestockand I toured that facility. As we toured it, we discovered that the dip tank is not in need of repair, but a complete overhaul. Has the ministry certified the works to ascertain whether the dip tank was fit for purpose? I think that will be my first question, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I did not hear the last part of his question clearly. However, concerning the dip tank, which is at the facility, we have asked the contractor to get back on site and rectify the problems that have been identified by our experts. Immediately after that is done, we will hand over the facility to the community, which will take up the responsibility of managing the dip tank.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chanda:Madam Speaker, I thankthe hon. Minister for that response. The people of Kanchibiya would be grateful to know the timeframe given to the contractor to correct the shoddy works on the dip tank. The hon. Minister is fully aware, as an accomplished livestock farmer himself, that that facility, without a functional dip tank is rendered irrelevant in serving its intended purpose. So, what timeframe has been given to the contractor, and when do the people of Kanchibiya, particularly in Nganga Corridor and Tazara Corridor, expect this dip tank to become fully functional so that they can take care of their livestock in the prevention of diseases and so on so forth?

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, as you heard, I took the effort to visit the facility. I also took the interest to make sure that things get moved to the facilityto service our farmers around that community.

Madam Speaker, I went further to summon the contractor and he has promised to get to the site by next week to work on the project. As I mentioned in my preamble, immediately after he finishes the works, the expert will go and do the due diligence before we hand over to the community.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mapani(Namwala): Madam Speaker, may I take advantage of the question which is on the Floor to get from the hon. Minister the national position on what he indicated earlier on.He said that he wouldundertake a countrywide inspection of dip tanks.How soon is that report going to be ready so that we understand exactly how many dip tanks he will work on this year, as promised.

Madam Speaker: I do not know whether the hon. Minister would have that information at hand because the question was constituency based. Does the hon. Minister have any information?

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, as I assured the House, the report is almost finalised. I will come back and acquaint the House of the national position over the dip tanks which were not complete and those that are non-functional.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Katambo:Madam Speaker, livestock service centres enhance livestock productioncountrywide, and one such is in Kanchibiya. The hon. Minister indicated that the only two staff that has been employed was engaged at Kanchibiya Livestock Service Centre. Does the hon. Minster think these two staff will have more knowledge of those farmers within Kanchibiya in order for them to enhance their skills in livestock husbandry?

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I stated that we have two staff in relation with the question the hon. Member asked on whether the centre was operational. So, the minimum number of staff that we have currently is two.That is what led me to make that statement. However, that is not enough. The ministry is still looking at restructuring its centres to make sure that it achieves the goals of increasing production and productivity among our farmers. We need to increase the staffing levels. This is work in progress in all the centres that we have across the country.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr E. J. Banda(Petauke Central): Thank you, Madam Speaker, for giving the good people of Petauke this opportunity to ask a follow-up question to the Minister of Fisheriesand Livestock.

Madam Speaker, as the hon. Minister of Fisheriesand Livestock is aware that the dip tanks in Kanchibiya District are needed urgently because a lot of animals are suffering from diseases which can be cured using them, what measures has he put in place to treat the animals while he waits for them to be operationalised?

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, the question was about the dip tank and not dip tanks, in the district. We are talking of the dip tank that is in Chief Luchembe’s chiefdom. I did mention that we have urgently requested the contractor to go to the site and rectify the problem. Our livestock technician is also on the ground to help our people. Currently, our livestock farmers have been advised to use spraying and pour-on initiatives.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

MONEYGENERATED FROM EXPORT OF POWER

123. Mr Chala (Chipili)asked the Minister of Energy:

how much money ZESCO Limited generated from the export of power from 2018 to 2021, year by year;
whether the power is exported at cost-reflective tariffs; and
if the tariffs are not cost-reflective, what the reasons are.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the following are the amounts generated from exporting power from 2018 to 2021:

Year US$

2018 84,090,745.73

2019 79,555,239.55

2020 117,057,177.59

2021 200,771,278.40

Total Export Sales 481,474,441.26

Madam Speaker, I have figures that are Kwacha equivalent but I can only give them if they ask for them specifically.

Madam Speaker, the tariffs were cost-reflective in the previous years.

Madam Speaker, as earlier alluded to in part (b), the tariffs were cost-reflective, and therefore, the question of why they are not cost-reflective does not apply.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chala: Madam Speaker, I have two or more questions. What we are getting from our neighbouring countries is very good money. Is it the reason the New Dawn Government has continued exporting electricity when it is not the right thing to do because people, especially small and medium enterprises are suffering due to load shedding? Could that be the reason? The other question is –

Madam Speaker: No, hon. Member. Just ask one question. You will have another opportunity. Let the hon. Minister answer the question.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Chipili would have noticed that his question referred to the period 2018 through to 2021, during which time the party he belongs to was the one in Government. If he recalls, during this period, we suffered from load shedding.

First of all, the hon. Member may have noticed that load shedding has ended. This follows the improvement in water levels, especially at the Kariba Dam, where water generation has gone up to 350 MW. We also have other measures that we have put in place which include extra generation from plants that were previously down and some exports. So, to imply that we have continued exporting is not quite correct because we have ended the load shedding. The fact that the party in Government that he belonged to was exporting electricity, even when there was load shedding, means that these issues should not be politicised.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sialubalo: Madam Speaker, let me appreciate the hon. Minister for ending load shedding. This is unprecedented. That is prudent leadership …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sialubalo: … under the New Dawn Administration.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sialubalo:These are the hon. Ministers we want. These are the Zambians we need, who are so committed to duty.

Madam Speaker, are we still owed by the people we sold power to?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, indeed, at this critical time, we do not only need these hon. Ministers but the President because he took his personal action to ensure that matters of this nature were resolved, including visiting the power stations like the Kariba Hydro Power Station and Maamba Thermal Power Station when it was a bit difficult. Not only that, he did take further action to coordinate all the agencies of the Government to make sure that this was amicably resolved so that we do not inconvenience our citizens for a longer period. That is what has resulted in ending load shedding.

Madam Speaker, the question as to whether we are owed any money, I think that is a separate question. I can hazard a guess but that will not be fair. That we can provide to the hon. Member if the answer is required.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chala (Chipili): Madam Speaker, in an event that we might experience load shedding in October this year, is it possible for the Government to relook at the contract or the Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) with our neighboring countries so that we do not punish our own citizens?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the interest he is showing in this particular subject. Let me give a bit of information. The water level at Kariba is the one that is causing the issue that we have seen in the recent past, and as of now, it is at 476.8m. If you compare it to last year, this is 2m below where the water level was last year. Whereas we are suffering this year with washed away fields, bridges, roads and so on and so forth, in terms of power generation, it means that the inflows into Kariba Dam are expected to be higher than last year, especially looking at the rainfall in the North-Western Province, Angola and parts of the Southern Province where the water leads into the Zambezi River. As more and more water flows into the dam, we expect a rise in the water level to the extent of reaching a high level, as it did last year, or maybe even higher. What has happened this year has given us information on how to manage the water resources in Kariba Dam better.

Madam Speaker, the President called for meetings with the Zambezi River Authority (ZRA), a jointly owned company, which is now mandated to ensure that there is a much tighter management of the water situation in Kariba Dam. So, if as the hon. Member says that come October, there will be signs that the water level will fall to a dangerous level or low level, the management of ZESCO Limited and the ZRA would have taken measures much earlier to effect some form of load management because load shedding is usually the last resort. When you see that the water that is flowing into the dam, usually in January, is not going to reach the supply level, you begin the process of managing the situation, which includes voluntary switching off of geysers, bulbs and so on and so forth. These are the measures that will be taken if we see that we are reaching precarious levels this year. That is the New Dawn Government’s prudent way of running things.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, the figures the hon. Minister has given us clearly demonstrates that the previous Government invested in the electricity generation subsector. It also clearly shows that the exportation of electricity is a lucrative business. What is the New Dawn Government’s projection of increasing electricity exports, especially that there is an ever-increasing demand of electricity in the Southern African Development Community (SADC) region?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, first of all, the thrust of the New Dawn Government is to grow the economy, increase metal and copper production as we said to 3 million tonnes and grow other areas, and this will require more and more power to be generated. The Government under the direction of the President has installed power generation with a capacity of 2,300 MW. Our target in the next ten years or so is to grow this by 6 GW, which is 6,000 MW, as directed by the President.

Madam Speaker, the aim will be first of all to satisfy the planned growth in the economy so that there is no restriction, because if you do not have power, you cannot grow the economy, and also look after our small-scale industries, and my colleague is also pushing for growth there. When extra power is available, it is only prudent to ensure that there is market for it. However, the hon. Member is asking for projections on exports and, at the moment, we do not have those projections. Whatever is exported will be extra to requirements. The Government is committed to ensuring that it limits load shedding in this country as far as possible.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has given us the tabulation of the amounts that were earned between 2017 and 2021 by ZESCO Limited. Were those amounts re-invested in ZESCO Limited to build human capacity and equipment within ZESCO Limited?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kabwata for that question.

Madam Speaker, the answer to that question is that it is part of the operational cost of the company, where the company decides how it will utilise the resources that it has. You will understand that ZESCO Limited also owes various bodies money. So, it uses part of the money to operate the company and there is also some element of capital investment. The key thing we need to note is the question as to whether the export amounts were cost reflective. As I said, yes, they were cost reflective. They were not only cost reflective, but ZESCO Limited made more money out of the exports than from the local supply of electricity. For example, during the period under review, the cost per kilowatt hour for the mining customers was 8.5 cents, whereas for the domestic users, it was 5.5 cents per kilowatt hour. The average export cost for the years that were given was 9 cents per kilowatt hour. So, the export amounts were cost reflective and part of them were used to run the operations of ZESCO Limited.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, once again, we thank the New Dawn Administration for having ended the loadshedding that we experienced the past few weeks.

Madam, considering the period under review, the Government has acknowledged that we have been exporting power at cost reflective tariffs. Now that the Government has satisfied the domestic market, is the country currently exporting any power?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, there are contractual obligations that companies such as ZESCO Limited go into. The key question is what the administration has done to manage the situation so that the country is not adversity affected. It is the reason we have talked about bringing online certain plants that were are not running at the time such as the machine at Maamba Collieries. We also want to increase the power that we are able to generate at Victoria Falls by 20 megawatts and a number of independent power producers including the ability to bring in exports just to make sure that electricity does not become an impediment to the productivity in Zambia. So, the question as to whether we are exporting and so on will be part of the contractual obligations, but will not affect the availability of power in Zambia, from this time hence.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, it is interesting to hear the hon. Acting Minister of Energy talk about ending loadshedding without mentioning the number of megawatts which have been added on the grid because the 2,300 megawatts is speaking about is the amount we left.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Kampyongo: To hear the load shedding being ended without stating –

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: This is what happens when you want to claim victory which is not yours.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order! Can we have some order. The reference to what happened always causes some heckling and what have you. Let us try to maintain –

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, it is interesting to hear the hon. Acting Minister of Energy talk about ending loadshedding without speaking about the number of megawatts that have added to the grid. The 2,300 megawatts he is talking about is what they inherited.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Mr Kampyongo: Let the hon. Minister tell us where the megawatts that have ended loadshedding are coming from. Since he is saying that they are getting cost reflective tariffs from exporting power to the foreign consumers, probably enticed them to export more which left us with the loadshedding we experienced which was not there, are you putting forcemajeure clauses in all the contracts the Government is getting into with the people that you are exporting the power to. When we need power, we can easily get out of some of the contracts to make sure that people do not suffer the loadshedding which you subjected them to in the recent past.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity.

Madam, the Whip for the Patriotic Front (PF) raises some very interesting points. First of all, let me respond to the last one - force majeure. There is no contract that is signed without the inclusion of a force majeure. I think that sorts that one out.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: As regards to the 2,300 megawatts, he claims that this is what was left to New Dawn Administration, Madam Speaker, let me educate him.

Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

Eng. Milupi: The 2,300 megawatts is the installed capacity. In other words, this adds up all the capacities of all machines that are generating. That is the installed capacity. It is totally different from the available capacity. When they left power, a number of machines were off. Notably, at Kariba, Kafue and Victoria Falls. I can tell you that. So, the available power they left was much less than the 2,300 megawatts. For now, this is what is available. The generation is currently standing at 2,215 megawatts. In terms of the power demand, it stands at 2,134 megawatts leading to a power surplus of 81 megawatts. This has resulted from the efforts of this Government including the commissioning of machines at Kafue Gorge Lower Power Station, which by the time we took over, the machines were not commissioned on account of the lack of money. The contractor had gone away.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: First of all, the planning for Kafue Gorge Lower Power Station did not start with the PF. I speak as an Electrical Engineer. It is something that started long time ago.

Mr Kampyongo: We agree!

Eng. Milupi: So, if you agree, just appreciate what we are doing for the country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the main thing to understand is that in terms of power generation, I think the management at ZESCO Limited, the Ministry of Energy and the Zambezi River Authority are well-placed to look after the interest of the country.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I think we have spent enough time. I have seen late indications, but I had already made a decision to move on. So, let me say sorry to those who have indicated late. We need to make progress. We go to the next question.

STALLED REHABILITATION WORKS ON THE HOYA/KAMZOOLE ROAD

124. Mr Nyambose (Chasefu)asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

why the rehabilitation of the Hoya/Kamzoole road has stalled;

(b) why the contractor has demobilised;

(c) what measures the Government is taking to ensure that the rehabilitation works are resumed and completed; and

when the bridges at Mthyengu and Kamzoole, which were washed away by heavy rains, will be reconstructed.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, the contract for the Hoya/KamzooleRoad at the time this question was raised, sometime in the last meeting of the House, was active and going on.

Madam Speaker, like the other contract that I dealt with in regard to Chembe, this contract was also terminated in October, 2022 for reasons that I cited in the earlier question, being budgetary constraints as a result of over procurement by the Government that was there before us.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Nyambose: Madam Speaker, it a plea to the hon. Minister. The people of Chasefu suffered so much in this country. The hon. Minister sent his able Permanent Secretary (PS) to inspect the Kamzoole crossing point. As I am speaking, the people in Kamzoole cannot cross to go to school. The Hoya/Kamzoole Road is in a deplorable state. Whilst we understand the reasons adduced for the cancellation of the contract, can the hon. Minister not seek favour for the people of Chasefu and consider working on the mentioned roads. As I have indicated, even when it was said that development was taking place in all parts of the country, Chasefu was left behind.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I envy the passion with which the hon. Member is asking these questions on behalf of the people who voted for him. This is as it should be for all of us.

Madam Speaker, I want the hon. Member to consider himself a little bit fortunate, especially that there once existed the Hoya/KamzooleRoad contract. The last time my colleague, the hon. Member of Parliamentfor Lumezi, my dear friend and younger brother asked a similar question and in responding to a similar question that someone asked me on the Floor of this House, I said there were fifty-six contracts in the Eastern Province and none in the North-Western Province. There were four contracts in the Western Province and two in the Southern Province. Yes, it is true, the erstwhile brothers said they had taken development everywhere. The statistics that I shared with this House speak otherwise. There was recklessness, inconsideration and discrimination during that time to the extent that there were signing these contracts without a plan, without knowing where the money was going to come from for personal aggrandisement and appeasement, for contracts that could never perform under the sun. You cannot budget for K1 and then procure against that K1 budget, K20. In Grade 1, they say it cannot.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: It is like one minus twenty, it cannot. That is the point at which we are. So, in order for me to give the hon. Member a little bit of comfort and at the expense of going into overkill on a point that is so straightforward, reckless over procurement against budgetary provisions. That is what was there. To give the hon. Member comfort, against these colossal sums of money-related contracts, your Government has since engaged very closely, the Zambia National Service (ZNS) in a bid to save money. We strongly and firmly believe that by engaging the ZNS being an arm of Government in the defence forces, in another year or two, these complaints will reduce and we will not be incurring any further expenses on contracts that are not performing. We will not have situations where we go to an egg-chicken affair to say, who defaulted first, is it he or she who did not pay or is it he or she who did not perform, we were at sea.

Secondly and most importantly, take a leaf from the constituency that I represent, Mazabuka Central, where we agreed that we shall buy road constructing equipment and then employ competent people to run these machines. You will observe that in the long run, this unnecessary and reckless expenditure will not be a thing to talk about anymore because we are going to capacitate the councils to own equipment from the K28.3 million Constituency Development Fund per constituency annually. I encourage you, hon. brother and friend to talk to the Ward Development Committees (WDCs) in your ward to understand why it is the only route to go so that councils can go back to those days of Engineering Services Corporation(ESCO).

Mr Nyambose: We have bought graders.

Mr Nkombo: I am glad to learn that he has already bought. We will overcome these challenges that were occasioned by what one would term, for lack of a better term, short term thinking, where a few groups of people were making colossal sums of money to the extent that they were even burning the money publicly. We will have a more prudent way of doing things where the council will now be only be obligated to find money for fuel and servicing this equipment. We will get it right. Believe it or not, we will. We need your support in this regard. The benefit will be too large once we take this route. If we continue on this route, over procurement and giving jobs to contractors who do not even have a wheelbarrow to make roads and using these same contracts to capacitate themselves to go and hire a water bowser or a grader at exorbitant cost will be a thing of the past, believe me. That is what is going to happen. I urge you to come on board and tell the whole world that that is the route we should go and we shall all be happy, together, as a matter of fact. Those expenditures of K12.9 billion contracts were unnecessary.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, permit me to mention that not too long ago, Lumezi, Lundazi and Chasefu were one district. In his submission to this honourable House, the hon. Minister has made reference to how many roads were constructed on contracts that were signed in the Southern Province, the North-Western Province and the Eastern Province. I must mention that singing of a contract is not an execution of that contract. I must mention also mention and put it on record that the three provinces that had the least contracts have far much better road network than the entire Eastern Province. Hon. Minister, it was gross misconduct on the previous regime …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munir Zulu: …for having neglected the roads on the eastern part of this country. It will also be gross misconduct on the Executive of the New Dawn Government to neglect the roads in the Eastern Province. Hon. Minister, we are all seated here for two things; there are politics at play and the economy. What are the people of Chasefu going to get by the hon. Minister responding that the failure to work on these results is as a result of the Government having a budget crisis? Does the hon. Minister see the people in Chasefu voting for this New Dawn Government based on the story of not having money?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Lumezi Constituency for being a brother’s keeper and speaking on behalf of the hon. Member for Chasefu Constituency.

Madam Speaker, three constituencies that are under one district, each getting K28.3 million is no mean achievement. They should not forget the past. The past was that each of these constituencies was getting K1.6 million only. There lies the dichotomy, the difference between the thinking then and now. Further, I thank him for joining the bandwagon in saying things as they truly are about the previous regime. I am just quoting what he said, but will stop right here.

Mr Syakalima: Kampyongo.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, yes, the signing of a contract is not execution. That is why it can be terminated. He is speaking to the converted. However, the signing of a contract is a commitment where, if all things are equal, execution must happen.

Madam Speaker, coming to the last bit, the hon. Member is claiming that the area where he comes from was probably the most neglected. I can take him to Kashinakazhi; I do not know if he has heard of a place called Kashinakazhi in the North-Western Province where they got zero km road construction. I can take him to a place called Nkandazovu. I can take him to the whole of Chienge, where my sister, Hon. Katuta, comes from.

Mr Sing’ombe: From 1996.

Mr Nkombo: Kaputa.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, I think let us limit the debates and the answers. They are too long and we are taking too long on the questions.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I am most obliged.

Madam Speaker: Yes, let us speak to the questions.

Mr Nkombo: I just thought it would be beneficial because the public is listening. When the hon. Member claims that his area was the most neglected, we need to try our best to harmonise such statements. If you go to Chienge, where I was for the first time, children do not even know tarmac. They have never seen tarmac.

Mr Nkandu: Including those in Kaputa.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, including those in Kaputa. There was discrimination in forwarding development to this country where certain people thought to build an overhead bridge, this hump. I call it a hump. I called it a hump then and I will call it a hump now. It has now caused flooding in Lusaka. People saw how the whole of the Arcades area and the East Park Mall were flooded because of the lack of forward-thinking. This country is in trouble, and the earlier we agreed, the better. Like minds can come together and say let us find solutions, going forward.

Madam Speaker, let me end by saying that where we are, from this end, we are not here for politics.

Interjections

Mr Nkombo: We are not. We will do politics three months to the next election, when the House is dissolved. For now, our mandate is not to do politics, but to say things as they are, state what our plans are and correct those things that are in the manner that they are.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, as we ask, let us remind ourselves that we have to stick to the questions. Even the answers should be strictly to the questions. We should remain relevant and not repetitive.

The hon. Member for Nyimba Constituency may continue.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, talking about the fifty-six contracts which were given to the Eastern Province, one of the roads is in Chasefu and we were discussing it today.

Madam Speaker, allow me to say that the people on your right basically lost in the Eastern Province. They got 48 per cent of the vote. They had more numbers than in some provinces where they had 18 per cent of winning votes; 48 per cent was their losing vote in the Eastern Province.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Nyimba, please, let us get back to the question. We are expanding it. What you are saying is not related to the question that is on the Floor.

Mr Menyani Zulu: Madam Speaker, I was trying to build up the question. The reason the United Party for National Development (UPND) won in the Eastern Province was that there are no roads. It is like somebody cooks a nice chicken, brings it here and says eat, but we do not eat it. That is what happened with the hon. Colleagues on your left.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Menyani Zulu: Madam Speaker, had they fulfilled that aspect, they would have won the elections in the Eastern Province. Basically, they lost the elections. So, my question to the hon. Minister is: Are we seeing history repeat itself as we go towards the 2026 elections or we are seeing the UPND change the narrative and give us –

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Menyani Zulu: Madam Speaker, yes, I understand, thanks to the enhanced Constituency Development Fund (CDF). There is no compromise and that is a wonderful thing. Are we seeing a change of the narrative from the UPND Executive by helping us, from the machinery it is buying, with the roads that we cannot work on in the Eastern Province, especially the roads the hon. Member for Chasefu is talking about? He cannot do it from the CDF. It is literally impossible to do it from the CDF. He cannot work on that road from the CDF. Are we seeing the Government moving into the Eastern Province and, at least, better our roads?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, let me just be very clear and brief. In this seat where I am, this particular place, my constituency is Zambia. As I stand here, my constituency is Zambia. That is my preliminary answer.

Madam Speaker, coming to the issue of prophecy, I have never claimed to be a prophet to know how it going to be if I changed a narrative. However, the people of this country deserve to know the truth. The issue of the chicken coming to his nose and the back and forth is not our state of mind. We will not pretend, the way others did that everything was good and unprecedented. No. We will go as far as saying the things that we have said every day. That part of what we inherited from our colleagues that we cannot duck from is to demolish the debt that they left.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member knows very well that at the inception of the due date of the Euro Bond, those colleagues defaulted.

Mr Mweetwa: Yes, we were here.

Mr Nkombo: We were still in the Opposition. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, who then was sitting across asked, two days before the due date: “We would like to know, are we on course? Are we going to pay?” The answer from The Vice-President then was: “Yes, we are alright.” That was superfluous. We are not in that state of mind. I have said before, and will say again: I would rather we are removed for telling the truth than telling people things that we can never ever deliver. I think there is dignity in saying things as they are.

Mr Kampyongo: You are joking.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I need your protection from the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu who is saying I am joking.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, let us not debate while seated.

Mr Nkombo:Madam Speaker, we will not pretend about the real situation. We will not go into illusions. Personally, as I stand here, the people of Mazabuka, where I have been an hon. Member of Parliament for a long time, are up in arms. They want good roads. The things we were telling them were that once we took over power, we were going to sort things out but I had to go back to them and tell them that the malaise was too big for us to deliver immediately, and that those roads must wait until we rectify what may have gone wrong.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: I told them so. I am strong enough to have told them the truth because I cannot tell them to say, “No, filyatwalelanda, what we used to say, we would do it tomorrow.” That way, they will vote me out. Now, they are settled with the fact that at least the truth can be said.

Madam Speaker, my encouragement to the hon. Member is not to campaign for us, but to reverberate this message back and say, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing said that for now, we will do what is humanly possible. We will fix the crossing points. We are available for such. We are not ducking away from the responsibility, just like the way we are not ducking away from the debt which is much more humongous than the things that we embarked to do on an annual basis. Let the hon. Member send the message across. We will not pretend.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: We go to the next question which is similar to the one we have just discussed. I think we have heard a lot on this issue. So, we should be fast with the next question. We should not repeat the same questions and answers.

STALLED REHABILITATION WORKS ON THE MSANZALA BRIDGE

125. Mr E. Daka (Msanzala) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

why the rehabilitation of the Msanzala Bridge in Msanzala Parliamentary Constituency has stalled; and

when the project will resume.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister for Local Government and Rural Development, please summarise.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, in response, I want to inform my hon. Colleague and friend, the hon. Member for Msanzala that works on the Msanzala Bridge have stalled due to lack of funds. The works on the Msanzala Bridge will resume as soon as money is made available.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr E. Daka: Madam Speaker, how soon will the funds be available? Nature has spoken and our people cannot cross to the other side of the river. How soon will our people in Msanzala Constituency receive help because it is really a challenge. The President witnessed this and he assured the people of Msanzala that he was going to work on that bride. How soon will that be?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, like you have said, this question is on all fours with the other questions that I have answered this afternoon except for the fact that the hon. Member for Msanzala may have been a bit complementary to just ask about the crossing point. However, the detail about this bridge is that it sits on a 70 km stretch from Petauke Boma to Chikowa Rural Health Centre. That contract was awarded to a company called Shachitari Contractors Limited. I am sure hon. Members from the Eastern Province know who Shachitari is.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, the contract price was –

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: You asked me to name the contractor. It is Shachitari Contractors Limited. You will understand who Shachitari’s friends are.

Mr Sing’ombe: We want to know him!

Mr Nkombo: Come to my office.

Madam Speaker, the contract sum for this stretch was K124 million. The same happened. We terminated the contract for Shachitari Contractors Limited a couple of months ago for reason that I have given that we cannot keep all these in our books when there is no money to service these loans.

Madam Speaker, further to this, even before we took office, these contractors were not performing. That must be made very clear. There were just hips of gravel everywhere. I suppose that if the Government did not change, the situation may have been the same.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member for Msanzala is more concerned about the bridge and not the whole road. He is asking what measures are being taken to ensure that the people are able to cross. I think that is what the question was about.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I appreciate.

Madam Speaker, I gave this background information that the hon. Member was complementary because he only extracted the question about the crossing point. However, he should take note that this bridge was part of the Bill of Quantity ((BoQ) for the entire 70 Km stretch. There are many unresolved issues with all the feeder road contracts. So, the solution to this would be for his council in Msanzala to make an approach to our office to speak to Shachitari Contractors Limited.

Madam Speaker, as I am saying this, I have been am hon. Minister for seventeen months now. I just know this name, but I have never met the face behind Shachitari Contractors.

Hon. Opposition Members:Aah!

Mr Nkombo: It is not my job to go looking for these faces.

Madam Speaker, we did an audit and invited the contractors to come but since they know that a bulk of them were runners for the Patriotic Front (PF), let me say it as it is, they are scared to come to the office. We have invited them to come but they do not. Instead, they send people with Interim Payment Certificates (IPCs) demanding for payments. We have said we are not paying, let them come because we need to have a conversation. This issue of the bridge is where we needed to ask and say, “Mr Shachitari, how much money were you paid at the commencement of this contract? How did you utilise the money? Okay, fine, you still have the first right of refusal. Now, if we find money for emergencies to repair this bridge, can you sign here that it will be deducted from your contract sum?” This is a normal business transaction. Now, we cannot sign on our own. They have to present themselves before us. We will need to have an eyeball-to-eyeball contact, agree and sign. That is how we close business. We cannot close it on our own. Unfortunately, who is suffering? It is our people who are very dear to us.

Madam Speaker, I like these kind of questions because they give me an opportunity to explain the situation as it truly is because many times will find that we have a gullible citizenly –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

I think you have explained sufficiently. Otherwise, we will just be repeating ourselves. You have adequately answered and explained.

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, being a member of the bigger family of the Eastern Province, I have listened to the lecture from the hon. Minister. Quite unusual, Shachitari Contractors is indeed a grade one company in construction of roads and buildings from the Eastern Province. However, the hon. Minister was allowed to mention, for the very first time, on the Floor of the House, a company that is not here to defend itself. Is the House in order to allow an innocent Zambian registered firm to be suspected of being affiliated to the former Ruling Party, the Patriotic Front (PF)?

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The hon. Minister was answering the question as to why the contract was terminated and who the contractor was. So, he was in order to name the contractor who was given the job, and whose contract was terminated. There was nothing wrong with doing that.

Let us make progress.

Mr Simumba (Nakonde): Madam Speaker, let me take advantage of the hon. Member for Msanzala’squestion. We have the same challenges in all the constituencies, especially in rural constituencies. What advice can the hon. Minister give the hon. Members of Parliament, especially those who come from rural constituencies because we are facing the same challenges? Is he telling us that we should stop asking questions concerning the rehabilitation of bridges and roadsuntil the money is made available?

Madam Speaker:We are now expanding the questions making them open-ended, and we will discussmatters not on the Order Paper. If this issue is a problem in most rural constituencies, probably, the hon. Minister can issue a ministerial statement explaining the position of the ministry.

Hon. Minister, do you want to say something?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I thought I gave what I believed was a long-lasting solution by encouragingthe local authorities to buy equipment. Probably, my colleague was not in the House. No one is abdicating the responsibility of answering questions. This is what we fought for, to come and put right what we thought was not right.

Madam Speaker, for avoidance of doubt, for the last three questions I answered, for Chembe, I named Professional Engineering Contractors Limited as the company that was contracted. In the case of Chasefu, I named a company called Tavian, and in the case of theareain question, I mentioned Shachitari Contractors Limited. So, I do not know why there are goosepimples around Shachitari Contractors Limited, but probably, we can leave it to our conscious to understand why.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: So, the answer has been provided. Please, buy equipment to ensure that you repair the roads and engage the local authorities in your constituencies.

Mr Shakafuswa: Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to ask the hon. Minister a question. Before I do, allow me, on behalf of the people of Mandevu, to welcome all the hon.Members of Parliament to Mandevu Constituency, which hosts your honourable august House, especially the hon. Member for Kalabo Central where they drink brown water.

Hon. Member: Question!

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order!

Mr Shakafuswa: Madam Speaker, I noted that you equally reminded the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development to state the measures the Government was putting in place to ensure that the people are able to cross the river where the bridge was washed away, but I did not hear him state that in his answer. Since we are referring to the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), would he be kind enough to tell us what the total cost to rehabilitate the bridge in Msanzala is so that, perhaps, if it is within K28.3 million, we may look to CDF?

Madam Speaker: I think it is up to the hon. Member for Msanzala to engage the hon. Minister to find out the measures they can take. I do not think the hon. Minister is ready to give the estimated cost of working on the bridge. However, the hon. Member for Msanzala can engage with the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development to see what corrective measures can be taken in relation to the bridge. In view of the interest on this matter, I believe the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development needs to issue a ministerial statement on the cancelled contracts so that we put this issue to rest. Can that be done on Wednesday next week?

Mr Nkombo indicated assent.

Ms Nyirenda:Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the people of Lundazi an opportunity to ask a follow-up question.

Madam Speaker,when the President gives a directive, it becomes a policy. In this case, the President went to Msanzala anddirected that that bridge should be worked on. What is the hon. Minister going to do especially that the instruction came from a higher authority than his office?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, it is obvious that I can never raise a finger on a Presidential directive. What follows now is for the council in Msanzala to give us a Bill of Quantity (BoQ), which will represent the cost of making that crossing point usable once again. We did that in Chama North, and many other places outside the budget. Clearly, we are now experiencingextreme weather conditions and the bridge in Msanzala is not the only one in Zambia that has been washed away.

Madam Speaker, when Mr Jonathan Daka –

Hon. UPND Member: Chibombo!

Mr Nkombo:No, the hon. Member for Chadiza. When he was overwhelmed with water in his constituency, he sent me a video of the water situation, and I am sure he was looking for a solutionfrom me as Minister. In response, I also sent him a video of the place I was born, Chief Mwanachingwala’s area, where the disaster was to the extent that all the chickens were wiped out because the water was waist deep, and only cows survived. All the goats were washed away with the water. So, we have this problem in the country.Since it is a national problem, we need to put our heads together on how we can reduce the pain that is being caused by the watersituation. So, we will be waiting for the BoQ to be brought to our office.

Madam Speaker, it does not also take away what I said earlier onthat Shachitari Contractors Limitedneeds to come to our office. Even if the President said that the bridge should be fixed, we need the contractor who was given the contract initially which was worth K124 million,so that if the BoQ is, for argument’s sake, K25 million, we would agree with them to deduct the money from the initial cost of the contract. That is a junction we cannot avoid simply because the President has said, repair this. There is a contract for that road, so we must have a conversation with Mr Shachitari. Those who know him should tell him that we are waiting for him to come to our office. We will first have a cup of coffee and get through it. The development agenda is a continuous process. We found it at one point, and we will leave it at another point. You know every end of a race is the beginning of a new one. So, the contractorshould come to my office.Hon.Liboma Daka should call him tomorrow. I will be in the office tomorrow.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the response the hon. Minister has given to the hon. Member. However, the hon. Ministermay invite someone for a cup of tea,but we know the people who manage contracts, and it is clear that it is not the hon. Minister who deals with the nitty-gritty of the contract. My question is: What is the status of the contract?Is it in abeyance or it has been terminated?If it has been terminated, then it would be illegal to engage a contractor to carry out a particular job as the hon. Minister proposed. The hon. Minister should explain more on the issue so that we are clear. What is the status of the contract? Is it in abeyance or it has been terminated or it is running?If it is running, then the hon. Minister has the impetus to call the contractor to the ministry.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I was very clear. There will be nothing illegal to talk to Shachitari Contractors Limited, regardless of the fact that his contract was terminated. There is a clause for the first right of refusal. That is what I said earlier on. What ‘the first right of refusal’ means is that whenever money will be found to complete this project, it is Shachitari Contractors Limited we will call that we now we have money and ask if he is interested in his contract.

Madam Speaker, given the circumstances of calamity, we cannot avoid to go to Mr Shachitari Contractors Limited that on the contract, you were paid X amount of money, you did X amount of percentage of work, the contract is terminated but whenever we resume you will be the one to go first, if you agree. Remember this is the same money because it is Government money. Whether it is coming from the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development or the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, it is still from control 99, which is Government money.

Madam, if Shachitari Contractors Limited agrees that it is happy with the bill of quantity for that bridge because he has a bill of quantity, then we will tell him to go ahead and fix it and then we will sign. By the way, when I say the hon. Minister, me, the buck stops at me. I am the one running the affairs of every office in that ministry and I cannot duck. I will not have a discussion with Shachitari Contractors Limited. There are engineers in the ministry who know this stuff better that I do. They will seat with Shachitari Contractors Limited and whichever contractor that we may need to discuss with in all these provinces where contracts were running, in order to arrive at a common ground with them. Remember, we are not adversaries. There is nothing adversarial about termination of a contract. It is just that they were not sustainable. So, please tell them to come. They should not have an attitude to say that the contract was cancelled, so why are we calling them. The conversation is not finished. It has not even started. We have to get to the bottom of everything so that what is due to them is paid to them. What is due to the Government is paid back to the Government. Some got advance payment and never did any work. However, I cannot say everyone behaved like that. I hope that I have been sufficient in the manner that I have responded.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Elias Daka (Msanzala): Madam Speaker, I wanted to ride on Hon. Kampyongo‘s question but now that the hon. Minister has answered it, I can just confirm through this House that the hon. Minister has invited the contractor. I know he is listening that he has been invited to the hon. Minister’s office to go and renegotiate so that the bridge can be worked on.

SINKING OF INDUSTRIAL BOREHOLES AT THE CHAMBESHI WATER PLANT IN ISOKA DISTRICT

126. Ms Nakaponda (Isoka)asked the Minister of Water Development and Sanitation:

whether the Government has any plans to sink industrial boreholes at the Chambeshi Water Plant in Isoka District;
if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
when the water tank at the Plant will be repaired.

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, let me take advantage of being on the Floor of the House to congratulate our girls, the Copper Queens, who have just beaten Macedonia Football Club 1 – 0.

Madam Speaker, in the same vein, let me congratulate the hon. Minister of Youth, Sports and Art for producing good results. We hope that the preparation towards the World Cup will be positive so that we can conquer and bring the trophy home. All the best and good luck to our girls.

Madam Speaker, the Government has no plans to sink industrial boreholes at the Chambeshi Water Treatment Plant in Isoka District because industrial boreholes were already sunk. Further, the boreholes were non-functional at the time the question was submitted to the ministry are now functional. This question was brought to us in 2022. Unfortunately, it is just coming on the House now. At the time this question was written to us, there were boreholes that were non-functional. Let me confirm that the boreholes which were non-functional have actually been repaired.

Madam Speaker, as stated in (a), above, the Government has no plans to sink industrial boreholes at the Chambeshi Water treatment Plant in Isoka District. However, the Government intends to rehabilitate six existing industrial boreholes at the Chambeshi Water Treatment Plant. Some of these works, like indicated, have started.

Madam Speaker, the tank has been rehabilitated and is now operational.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Nakaponda: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister is saying that all the industrial boreholes are now functional. Does the Government have any plans to provide piped water in Chuwi Village, it being the source of the water in Isoka?

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, like in the earlier question, equally on this one, I had an opportunity to visit Isoka District, in particular, the treatment plant. Let me inform the hon. Member of Parliament and the good people of Isoka that we are depending on the water from the spring at the abstraction point in Isoka. I believe that the hon. Member of Parliament has been to the treatment plant. So, we are abstracting water from the ground water source using the boreholes in question but also we are abstracting water from the spring.

Madam Speaker, the Government has already put in place measures to ensure that we have sufficient supply of water being abstracted from the spring but also being supported by the boreholes in question. Yes, it is true that for some time, the boreholes were non-functional and that raised a number of concerns from the people of Isoka and we have been engaging the hon. Member of Parliament.

Madam Speaker, let me confirm that works have taken place and the boreholes that were non-functional for a long time have been worked on. I want to believe that the works on the other ones I have promised are proceeding and could be finished in terms of rehabilitation. Taking into account that the questions came up in 2022 and the works were being done from 2022, I want to believe that within the first quarter of 2023, we should be able to complete the rehabilitation of the rest of the boreholes at the treatment plant. This should guarantee the people of Isoka District with sufficient supply of water.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Nakaponda:Madam Speaker, I am still not clear about Chuwi Village which is supposed to have piped water since the area is the source of the water supplied to Isoka.

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I was talking about the entire Isoka District, but I am mindful of the fact that this water is being extracted from a village called Chuwi. This is a very famous village to me because of the engagement we have had with the hon. Member of Parliament for Isoka. I want to assure her that we shall work on ensuring that the people of Chuwi are not bypassed. They should not just remain as spectators considering that the water source is sitting in that village. I will engage Chambeshi Water and Sewerage Company to see how far it has gone with the issue of boreholes and within the next two weeks, the hon. Member of Parliament will be informed of the measures that would have been put in place to ensure that the people of Chuwi Village have water supply. So, we should be able to extend the networks there, and the hon. Member will definitely be given feedback.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

CREATION OF A STAFF ESTABLISHMENT STRUCTURE FOR MUNYUMBWE LEVEL 1 HOSPITAL

127. Mr Simuzingili (Gwembe) asked the Minister of Health:

when the Government will create a staff establishment structure for Munyumbwe Level 1 Hospital in Gwembe District; and

(b) what the cause of the delay in creating the staff establishment for the Hospital, is.

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo):Madam Speaker,before I answer this question, mayI be allowedto wish my young sister here on my right, the youngest Cabinet Minister of Information and Media ahappybirthday.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, on a sad note, I wish to convey my condolences to the family of Hon. Kapeya Mwansa, a great ‘guy’ who contributed so much to the nation and especially in the field of media rather than politics.

Madam Speaker, –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister, the use of the word ‘guy’ is unparliamentary. Could you please, withdraw it. He is honourable even if he is dead. Condolences to the family.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I am so sorry. I did not even realise that I used that word. He was a very honourable man, indeed, and I should not use that word. Thank you, for the guidance, it was a slip of the tongue.

Madam Speaker, the Government has developed and approved the establishment of Munyumbwe Level 1 Hospital in Gwembe District. The establishment for the hospital was approved before the process for the recruitment of the over 11,000 health workers commenced. The hon. Member may wish to note that the ministry has further allocated some positions for staff to be recruited at the facility as part of this recruitment.

Madam, the delay in the creation of the establishment was due to administrative procedures that would normally need to be followed before an establishment can be developed and approved. The House may wish to note that the matter has since been resolved.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I think this is one question that has been overtaken by events. Are there any supplementary questions? If there are none, then we can make progress.

CONSTRUCTION OF MINI HOSPITALS IN MUNGWI DISTRICT

128. Mr Kalimi (Malole)asked the Minister of Health:

(a) when the construction of the following mini hospitals in Mungwi District will commence;

Makasa; and
Chimbola;

(b) what the cause of the delay is in commencing the projects;

(c) what the cost of each project is; and

(d) what the timeframe for the completion of each project is.

Mrs Masebo:Madam Speaker, currently, the Government is only constructing one mini hospital in Mungwi District in an area known as Chimbola and not in Makasa area.

Madam, the construction of Chimbola Mini Hospital in Mungwi District commenced on 14^th April, 2022.

Madam Speaker, the delays in commencing the construction of Chimbola Mini Hospital is due to administrative challenges.

Madam Speaker, the cost of each project is US$1.5 million. This cost includes medical and non-medical equipment. The timeframe for the completion of each project is six months.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kalimi:Madam Speaker, I know the hon. Minister of Health was very ready for me. No wonder she answered like that before I could ask the question. The hon. Minister may be aware that in Makasa, the Government allocated a mini hospital and I have been told that we are casualties of those mini hospitals, which were moved from Makasa to other areas. If the hon. Minister looks at the distance which the people cover in order to access the health facility, she will definitely be a sad person.

Madam Speaker, before I contested that seat as a Member of Parliament, Iam the one who roofed MakasaClinic, servicedit and bought the mattress for the clinic. The situation is very bad. What is the Government’s position on the taking away of the mini hospital from Makasa, where our Senior Chief Makasa is?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, let me repeat what I had already discussed. I think this matter did come on the Floor of this House during the last meeting. In terms of policy, we made it clear that this Government is committed to ensuring that this whole country gets development. In that respect, that development will have to be distributed in an equitable manner. In this regard, I wish to state the following:

The construction of mini hospitals, health posts and hospitals will be distributed equitably.So, if a certain area, as is the case now, the hon. Member was promised that he will be given a clinic under the previous administration. This administration is saying, “we will give to all chiefdoms, all districts and all provincial capitals.”I would like to appreciate the hon. Member ‘s concern and all I can say to him is that this Government is desirous to ensure that all communities get something. So, if in this year’s budget, Makasa area has not yet been considered, we still have many more years to come. We have next year and the other year. So, every yearGovernment is desirous to ensure that the area that does not have health facilities must get one. If Makasa area does not have a health facility now, next time it will be given one. However, for now, let us all agree as hon. Members of Parliament that we distribute development equitably to all the ten provinces.

Madam Speaker, we are not going to go into one district and satisfy all the needs. We have to ensure that we move into one and give it one thing and also give something to the next. If a district has three constituencies, for example, we will not concentrate in one. We will ensure that we give something to one constituency at a particular time. The next time, we will give something to the others. That, however, does not mean that that constituency or district is satisfied.

Madam Speaker, my appeal to hon. Members of Parliament is that let us unite and work together for the good of Zambia. This is our country; all of us have a share.

Madam Speaker, let me also say that these hospitals are not free. The money is a debt. Zambians from all the ten provinces will have to pay back the debt. So, when we contract a debt, we have to make sure that everybody who will pay it back feels that they have something from it.

So, Madam Speaker, with due respect to my hon. Colleague, we will support Chief Makasa. He is our chief and we want the best for him, but let us ensure that we are seen to be doing justice to this country and uniting it.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has confirmed that in the quest to ensure that there is an equitable distribution of mini-hospitals, she has moved that hospital. Is she able to share with us where that hospital has been moved to and whether construction started?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I am giving on the Floor of this House a policy guidance on all projects under the Ministry of Health. I have been very, very clear. As to whether something has been taken from one district to another. I cannot confirm here, except to state what the status is under this administration.

Madam Speaker, you did ask me to bring to the House a tabulation of our plan of action on health provision infrastructure, and I think that list was distributed. So, off the cuff, I cannot really answer that question except say that in terms of policy, this is a new administration.

So, Madam Speaker, there was no issue of taking something from one place to another. We will simply say that this year, we will construct ten mini-hospitals. We will look at which places have more and which have fewer.

Madam Speaker, there were many promises that were made. Just yesterday, an hon. Member of Parliament from the left was telling me that there were many pronouncements that were made about this and that hospital, and now he has to go and explain to the people. Sometimes, those were just promissory notes or talk because people wanted votes from elections. The reality might not be the same. So, that is my answer.

I thank you, Madam.

MrKalimi (Malole): Madam Speaker, I invite the hon. Minister to go to Malole and Makasa, in particular. The people of Makasa are accessing a hospital which is about 200 km away, in Kayambi. If she goes there, definitely, with her heart, she will go and reinstate the hospital there. The people are suffering. There are no ambulances. People and pregnant women struggle to access Kayambi. I know she is serving the people of Zambia. She should reconsider and take that hospitalback.

Madam Speaker: Thank you. It is a plea. I do not know if there is any need to respond, hon. Minister of Health.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I would like to respond, and my response is that no hospital has been taken away from any place. We have our own plan of action as the United Party for National Development (UPND). I take note of his plea. Let him come to the office and we can have this discussion. Who knows? Maybe we do not even need to give them a mini-hospital in our plans. Maybe we need to give them something else, something bigger.

Madam Speaker, the issue of ambulances we can address. He is welcome. He should not feel that this or that has been taken or given away. He should just take it that we have a plan of action that we will have to implement.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

PLANS TO CONSTRUCT TOWNSHIP ROADS IN MPIKA CONSTITUENCY

129. MrKapyanga (Mpika) asked Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

whether the Government has any plans to construct township roads in the following locations in Mpika Parliamentary Constituency:

Kamwanya;

(ii) Chitulika; and

(iii) Chisanga;

(b) if so, when the plans will be implemented;

(c) when the construction of the Great North Road/TAZARA Road will be completed; and

(d) what the cause of the delay in completing the project is.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to construct roads in Kamwanya, Chitulika as well as Chisanga townships.

Madam, due to budgetary constraints and the debt accrued in the road sector, the Government is re-evaluating commitments and will only determine when new projects will be taken on afterwards.

Madam Speaker, all works remaining under the Mpika Township Roads Project, including the Great North Road/TAZARA Road will be completed in our ten-year sector plan.

Madam Speaker, the cause of the delay is the budgetary constraints that forced the suspension of the works and the contract to be closed until further notice.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kapyanga:Madam Speaker, during his address to Parliament, His Excellency the President did indicate that the Government, in 2023, would work on township roads in selected towns of Muchinga Province. Mpika being the biggest district in Muchinga Province is well-positioned to benefit from that pronouncement by His Excellency the President. Does the Government have plans, as per presidential pronouncement, to work on township roads in Muchinga Province, and is Mpika included in that programme?

Madam Speaker: I thought the hon. Minister said there were plans. The hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development may answer.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, yes, indeed. I said there are plans. The hon. Member of Parliament has zeroed me in on the year 2023. According to him, there was a pronouncement in one of the President’s speeches, which he has not laid on the Table for me to see, that Muchinga Province was going to benefit from township roads.

Madam Speaker, let me give a short historical perspective about township roads. I will start by appealing to the hon. Member of Parliament to have a bit of patience, the way some of us have had. The brief historical perspective that I am about to share is that back in the year 2013, the Patriotic Front (PF) realised that it had over-procured roads. For example, the constituency that I represent, Mazabuka, was due to get 20 km of tarmac roads in the townships. Then came the policy that any project that is below 80 per cent would have to be abandoned.

Madam Speaker, since 2013, we have been waiting, and we are still waiting. These are the realities of life. Mpika, which is a big constituency in Muchinga Province, is indeed, very dear to me. It is dear because that is where our fifth Republican President came from, in Chitulika, if I am not mistaken. May his soul rest in peace.

Madam Speaker, I need my hon. Colleague to also open his eyes to the fact that the Isoka/Mpika Road was not there but now, we have the highway from Nakonde. There are works that are currently going on on that international road from Isoka to Mpika. The money we are using on that road is Government money. I am very desirous as hon. Minister responsible for Local Government, if it were possible, tomorrow, to have township roads in Mpika.

Madam Speaker, again, we go back to the statement which has caused you, Madam Speaker, to direct me to come up with the ministerial statement. In agreeing with you, I could also include the status of township roads in that report so that we can all be clear about what the real situation is. My hon. Colleagues from Mpika are fortunate because they received some township roads. Where some of us come from, not even a quarter kilometre of the road was received. So, I am appealing for their patience. Once we try to get over the many competing challenges, it is our idea to make sure that we come to the minimum requirement of connectivity within the townships.

Madam Speaker, one thing that we are going to do is not to pretend. In the past, people used to call some roads political and economical. They started with Formula 1 (F1), the Lusaka 400 Road Project (L400) and then, the Copperbelt 200 Road Project (C200). They thought if they put tarmac roads, people would vote for them. They forgot that many people live in rural areas and they did not benefit from those tarmacs.

Madam Speaker, I beg my hon. Colleague to exercise patience the way we did ourselves. We never put up a fight when we were told to wait. In Mazabuka, we were supposed to receive 10 per cent of the bituminous standard roads but we were later on told that there was not money and we had to wait. Good things come to those who wait.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The Hon Minister indeed, will include the issue of the township roads in the ministerial statement.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, I acknowledge the statement by the hon. Minister that there was that very ambitious programme which was meant to work on the road network in the country. The Formula 1 (F1) initiative that the hon. Minister referred to was formulated under the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD) Government. When the Patriotic Front (PF) came into power, it introduced the Lusaka 400 Road Project (L400) that the hon. Minister also talked about, which linked certain parts of the country. Now, people can drive out of Lusaka through Chiawa. People can drive out of Lusaka through other towns. However, the road the hon. Minister referred to, the construction of the Isoka/Mpika Road was funded by the African Development Bank (AfDB). It is from Nakonde, Isoka to Chinsali. What has remained there is a stretch from Chinsali to Mpika.

Madam Speaker, the historical challenges that have been referred to are critical and we do not deny that we had pressure. However, the road network was bad so we needed to make sure that something is done.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Mpika just wants to know because a few township roads were worked on. Kamwanya, which is one of the areas he talked about, is among the areas which of course, were planned for, but the roads were not worked on. How soon do the people of Mpika expect the ministry to start doing something in that area?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, in my response, I said that the roads will be worked on according to our ten-year road sector plan, and the ten years is not starting next year. We started by planning on the drawing table.

Madam Speaker, it is just that I am forbidden by the regulations that run our affairs. Seventeen months ago, the hon. Member who asked the question was seated where I am seated, when the ministry was called the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. I still appeal for their patience. I illustrated that they should take a leaf from us who waited for ten years, from 2013 to now.

Madam Speaker, I went with Hon. Nathaniel Mubukwanu to do ground breaking on the township roads in Mazabuka and everybody jubilated.

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: Not one kilometer. We have been patient. Whatever went wrong with being patient? My request is that what is good for the goose is also good for the gander. It is now your turn to wait for our lovely people of Mpika –

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised. I hope you do not want to respond to the hon. Minister. What is the point of order?

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order pursuant to Standing Order No: 65.

Madam Speaker, we are required to present factual information on the Floor. Is the hon. Minister, whom I acknowledge is in the office I was in sometime back and is using the signal of the eye, in order to insinuate that the people of Mazabuka have been waiting for the township roads, yet he asked our Executive to first of all work on the Turn-pike/Mazabuka Road, which was in a deplorable state, before working on the township roads? He was here. As we speak, one of the best stretches of the Livingstone Road is the Turn-pike/Mazabuka Road. Is he in order to insinuate that they have been waiting for roads and nothing was done by the previous Government?

I seek serious guidance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The hon. Minister was referring to the townships roads and he said that only 10 km was done. The use of the hand and the eye was just an expression in the African culture. So, he is in order. He was just appealing to hon. Members to exercise patience.

Let us make progress.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, the township roads in my constituency are in a very deplorable state. I understand the hon. Minister’s response. As we are waiting for the ten-year sector plan, is the hon. Minister able to just do two or three kilometres of the Musakanya/Kombe Road which passes through the town centre.Vehicles are unable to move around in the town centre. This is a very passionate appeal to the hon. Minister for the Musakanya/Kombe Road as we await the ten-year sector plan. The rest we can do because we have procured the whole road making equipment set.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I take that plea from the colleague as a genuine and passionate plea of just doing three kilometres of the road. This is how and what I meant when I said some roads were looked at with a political eye. I am quite certain that if these three kilometres were done to bituminous standard, people would laugh at us. That is what I think. I would rather say we make a gravel all weather road and do much more in terms of kilometres than just do three kilometres. To do three kilometres, hon. Member, Mr Kapyanga, would be an affront just not to my conscious but to the policy of the Government. I have said it to you in this meeting, this afternoon, that there are places like Kaputa, where the children therehave never seen tarmac. When I say children, I mean people who have not travelled out of Kaputa and are now about thirty years old.

Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

Mr Nkombo: I am being told Katombola, Kashinakaji. I know Mpika is very dear to you and so is it to me. I said it, in this meeting, that I am no longer just a Member of Parliament for Mazabuka, but for Zambia. I am appealing to all of you to look at life that way. We take a collective responsibility that we share the national cake in the most equitable manner so that we say “pembelafirst”, which means wait a little, take a chill, wait. When we plan things, I can assure you that within ten years, we will look back and say:“Look at what we have done”, but if we are just doing things for political appeasement, people will laugh at us. I love the people of Mpika so dearly, including that compound with a name from New York – What is it called?

Mr Kampyongo: Trench Town.

Mr Nkombo: Trench Town from Jamaica.If it was within my means to tar the whole place, I would also tar Trench Town in Mpika. Let us be mindful that every end of the line is the beginning of a new race. We will do what is humanly possible to uplift the people from the challenges of connectivity but it be done within our own means.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

PLANS TO ELECTRIFY CHIUNDAPONDE CHIEFDOM

130. Ms Mabonga (Mfuwe) asked the Minister of Energy:

whether the Government has any plans to electrify the Chiundaponde Chiefdom in Mpika District;

if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
what the cost of the project is.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi) (on behalf of(the Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala)):Madam Speaker, yes, the Government of the Republic of Zambia, through the Rural Electrification Authority (REA), has plans to electrify Chiundaponde Chiefdom.

Madam Speaker, according to the Rural Electrification Master Plan (REMP) Chiundaponde Chiefdom is earmarked for electrification in 2024.

Madam Speaker, the cost of implementing the project is K90,955,855.65. However, the electrification of the chiefdom would require a construction and installation of a 66/33Kv stepdown substation at Lavushimanda Central Business District at an estimated cost of K12 million.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Mabonga (Mfuwe): Madam Speaker, thank you very much. I do not have a supplementary question, but I thank the hon. Minister for the response and say that –

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mabonga: I hope that the project will be implemented in 2024 and not later than 2024.

I thank you, Madam.

CONSTRUCTION OF OFFICES FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF IMMIGRATION AT CHEMBE BORDER POST

131. Mr C. Mpundu (Chembe) asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security:

when the Government will construct offices for the Department of Immigration at Chembe Border Post in Chembe District; and
why the project has taken long to commence.

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, the construction of offices for the Department of Immigration at Chembe Border Post in Chembe District is in the 2025-2034 Infrastructure Development Plan for the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, the ministry has phased its infrastructure projects in the infrastructure development plan due to limited resources.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr C. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister is aware that currently, the flow of traffic at the border post is of concern and talking of 2025, with the dynamics of crime in relation to immigration services is not tallying.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister is aware that currently, the office that the officers are operating from is less like an Airtel booth which cannot accommodate the screening of the clients.

Madam Speaker, what immediate measure is the hon. Minister putting in place to have our officers working in a dignified office which even himself as he visits the border post will be proud of.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I do appreciate the sentiments that are being raised by my hon. Colleague and I do appreciate that this particular border post is getting busier by the day. The immediate plans we have is to come up with a plan that is going to run from 2025 to 2034. However, obviously, if money is made available starting from 2025, we will construct the border post.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I think the question is very clear. We can make progress and also looking at the time.

Order!

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1910 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 16^th February, 2023.

____________

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