Tuesday, 8^th November, 2022

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_______

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM SPEAKER

ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I have received communication to the effect that in the absence of Her Honour the Vice-President, who is attending to other Government business, the hon. Minister of Defence, Mr  Ambrose L. Lufuma, Member of Parliament, will act as Leader of Government Business in the House from today, Tuesday, 8^th November, 2022, until further notice.

I thank you.

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MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

MR J. E. BANDA, HON. MEMBER FOR PETAUKE CENTRAL, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF INFORMATION AND MEDIA, MS KASANDA, ON LACK OF INTERPRETATION SERVICES IN MOST MEDIA HOUSES

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Petauke this opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance, which is directed at the hon. Minister of Information and Media.

Madam Speaker, the good people of Petauke, especially those living with disabilities follow the happenings in the country through television stations. For example, when we were affected by the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19), many people in the constituency heard the news through the media. However, the people living with disabilities in my constituency, especially the deaf, are complaining that they do not follow the news because these other media houses do not offer interpretation services apart from the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) and not everyone is subscribed to ZNBC. Some are subscribed to these other media houses.

Madam Speaker, we are therefore, asking the hon. Minister Information and Media to intervene so that each and every media house has interpreters. This way, the people living with disabilities will follow whatever is happening. For example, 95 per cent of the people in Petauke are farmers and farmers get their information from the hon. Minister of Agriculture through –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Petauke Central.

 You are the Leader of the Independent. You are the Whip, actually. Therefore, when you raise matters that do not even meet the criteria stated in Standing Order Nos. 134 as read, with 135, we are just squandering time. We have so many –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

We have so many issues and Heads to consider. Please, do not stand and raise a point when you know it is just meant to squander time. Hon. Member for Petauke Central, you are out of order.

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Madam Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance pursuant to Standing Order No. 134, directed at the Minister of Health.

Madam Speaker, a healthy nation is, indeed, a wealthy nation. However, in Mpika Constituency, particularly, the urban clinic which caters for thousands of people, does not have an x-ray machine. The same applies to Michael Chilufya Sata Hospital. We have made efforts to contact the Ministry of Health and we are being told that the pharmacists at the Zambia Medicines & Medical Supplies Agency (ZAMMSA) have not yet procured x-ray machines. As a result, our people have to travel to Chinsali, which is about 180 km, as well as Chilonga, at times, spending a lot of money to access healthcare services.

Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence.

Madam Speaker: Again, that issue that you have raised does not meet the criteria. So, it is not admitted. Let us make progress.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: I have permitted the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development to make a ministerial statement.

Mr Mung’andu entered the Assembly Chamber.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Insansa kucinjanya

Laughter

Madam Speaker: So, do not laugh at others.

Hon. Members: Meaning?

Madam Speaker: Meaning, joy takes turns. Today, one person is happy and the other one is sad. Next time, you change places. So, let us not make fun of the people who lost.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: However, since you have made it a subject, may I take this opportunity to congratulate those people who won the election.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

_______

MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

TRANSPORTATION SECTOR IN ZAMBIA

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, I know you have already done it but I would be failing in my duties …

Hon. Opposition Members: Which party?

Eng. Milupi: … if I did not add my congratulations to the victorious United Party for National Development (UPND) and its alliance partners for the massive victory, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Eng. Milupi: … losing only two seats, one in Mpika and one in Chingola. We have taken note and we shall correct even those two seats because they are now in our strongholds.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I wish to thank you for this opportunity to render this ministerial statement. As you may know, the transportation sector is critical to the economic growth of any nation as it facilitates commerce and the trade of goods and services.

Madam Speaker, in this regard, the Government of the Republic of Zambia is desirous of promoting investment and participation of the private sector in the development and maintenance of the transportation logistics infrastructure in the country.

The demand for road infrastructure development in Zambia remains high while the resource envelope is not adequate to bridge the financing gap for road construction, rehabilitation and maintenance work. In order to overcome the constraints imposed by limited financial resources, the New Dawn Government intends to build or rehabilitate these high traffic roads using the Public-Private Partnership (PPP) financing model. This model is intended to provide relief fiscally by allowing the private sector to collaborate with the Government by investing in public infrastructure and receiving compensation in the form of toll fees for a set period of time called the concession period. This financing model will in turn improve infrastructure development and service delivery.

Madam Speaker, due to the conducive environment created by the New Dawn Government for the economy, on 14^th February, 2022, it received a proposal from the private sector for the design, financing, building, operation, maintenance and transfer of 35 km of the T3 mining transportation channel of the Chingola to Kasumbalesa on the Copperbelt Province.

Madam Speaker, following evaluations of the proposal and negotiations in line with the provisions of the Public Private Partnership Act No. 14 of 2009, as amended, the Government has agreed to enter into a concession agreement with the preferred bidder for execution of the project on the design, finance, build, maintain, operate and transfer basis. Having established the technical, financial and legal capacity of the preferred bidder, the Government awarded the concession agreement to Messrs Turbo-Kachin Investment Consortium. Basically, “Kachin” stands for Kasumbalesa/Chingola. This is an investment consortium limited referred to as the concessioner in the agreement. This is on the understanding that all the risks associated with funding mechanisms will be borne by the concessionaire itself with no assistance from the Government of the Republic of Zambia. The signing of the Chingola to Kasumbalesa concession agreement on 31^st October, 2022, was a historic event for the New Dawn Government as this agreement became the first to be signed in the road sector.

Madam Speaker, the Tolls Act No. 14 of 2011 provides for the operation of roads, the charging and …

Interruptions

Eng. Milupi: … collection of tolls and provides for private sector participation in the tolling roads.

Madam Speaker, under Section 4 of the Tolls Act, the Road Development Agency (RDA) is mandated with the following functions:

1. regulate the operation and maintenance of toll roads;
2. monitor compliance of concessionaires and private entities with the terms and conditions of concession agreements signed;
3. advise the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development on the design, construction, safety regulations, operations and, of course, maintenance of bridges and toll roads;

In addition to the above, Section 6 of the Tolls Act provides as follows:

“(I)    the Agency may on such terms and conditions as it may determine, appoint any suitable person as a toll collector for the purpose of this Act and to perform such other functions as the Agency may specify.

(2)     a toll collector shall remit to the Agency any toll collected in such a manner as the Minister may prescribe.”

Madam Speaker, the above conditions clearly give the RDA the tolling functions and further allows for the appointment of various persons at law as toll collectors. In the past, those appointed included the National Road Fund Agency (NRFA), the ZambiaRevenue Authority (ZRA), and the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA). However, with the coming of PPP projects, private entities or concessionaires can now be appointed as toll collectors.

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, in line with the Public Finance Management Act No.1 of 2008 and the concession agreement provisions, the concessionaire shall deposit all toll fees and other revenues collected from facilities on the project highway into the escrow account to be managed by the Government through the contracting authority and the concessionaire. Under the concession agreement, the Government shall have the right to audit all accounts and records and examine all books, records, papers, reports and other documents relating to the collection and other mechanisms.

Madam Speaker, the scope of works and notable features to be done on this project will include the following:

 

1. rehabilitation and widening of 32 km of existing road.The cross-section to be adopted shall comprise a 3.5 m lane with a 2.5 shoulder, 2 m of which are paved and 0.5 m is unpaved on both sides of the carriageway. This means that the carriageway is effectively 12 m;
2. construction of 3 km concrete dual carriageway in Kasumbalesa Town;
3. construction of two trucking areas and lay-bys for both north and south-bound trucks;
4. construction of lanes that shall allow for accommodation of traffic during construction;
5. re-paving of the bridge, deck, pavements and upgrade ofthe guardrails at the two bridges, that is, the Chingola and Chitobaula bridges;
6. construction of one toll plaza;
7. construction of one Type II weighbridge with an in-motion weighing station in accordance with the Southern African Development Community (SADC) standard specifications, which cost shall be shared by the concessionaire and the Government;
8. land acquisition and compensation, and relocation of services and utilities;
9. operations and maintenance;
10. sub-contracting during the construction period and operation and maintenance phase of the project; and
11. the parties have agreed to an eighteen-year concession period with a construction period of one year.

Madam Speaker, I would like to reiterate the New Dawn Government’s commitment that public infrastructure shall be at the right price, quality and timeline. This is on the understanding that all the risks associated with funding mechanisms are to be borne by the concessionaire with no assistance and at no risk to the Republic of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, the construction cost of only the 3 km concrete dual carriageway leading to Kasumbalesa and the rehabilitation of approximately 32 km of the Chingola/Kasumbalesa Road has been agreed at US$31,367,030.96 without taxes.

You will note that the cost per kilometre works out at US$531,644.59 without taxes.

The kilometres for those who want to know has been worked out as follows:

1. 32 km from the section to be rehabilitated;
2. 6 km, that is the dual, the last 3 km from the section which is to be dualised in Kasumbalesa;
3. 14 km worked out from the widening cross section of a typical cross section which is usually 6.8 m comprising 3.4 metre lanes. However, the adopted cross section for this project is 11 m with 3.5 m lanes and 2 metres sealed shoulders. These adopted cross sectional alone works out to be 21 km when compared to an ordinary road;
4. the cost per kilometre when compared with the other similar sections works out to be US$531,649.59. That is the total price divided by the effective total kilometres. This is way below the old price seen which was usually above a US$1. In certain case, US$1.2 or US$1.4 per kilometre and that is with all risks being born by the Government.

Madam Speaker, truly, the New Dawn Government is undertaking the road infrastructure at the right price, quality and timeline. Again, this on the understanding that risks associated with funding mechanism are to be borne by the concessionaire with no recourse or risk to the Government of the Republic of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, this brings me to one of the fundamental questions on people’s minds. What benefits does this project bring to the ordinary Zambian and, indeed, to the country? The answer lies in the uniqueness of the road cross section. This section connects the continent, region and domestic corridors to the world. Once rehabilitated, I have no doubt that citizens in the region’s social and economic status shall be uplifted.

Madam Speaker, some specific benefits of rehabilitating this project include the following:

1. travel times will improve between the town of Kasumbalesa and Chingola;
2. decongestion of traffic at Kasumbalesa Border Post where long queues have become the norm;
3. queues will reduce as some trucks will be parked in the two trucking areas with a combined capacity of 300 trucks being build as part of the project scope;
4. our citizens for the project will benefit from the traffic volumes that will be generated from the rehabilitated roads; and
5. the development of the project will serve as a spring board for the various youths on the Copperbelt as it will result in the creation of many jobs in the project areas during the construction period, as well as during the operation in maintenance phase of the project. This demonstrates the New Dawn Government’s commitment and its conviction that the private sector is critical to the economic transformation agenda.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development.

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, you could note that Hon. Musokotwane is happy to have me back in the House. Hon. Musokotwane, good afternoon.

Laughter

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister –

Interruptions 

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, we have moved away from the congratulations. Let us get into work now.

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, I seek some clarifications from the hon. Minister. The costing in construction projects is determined by the design, in cases where he is talking about, maybe, the asphalt finish and double seal. In this case, may I know the final design on this project because when we compare projects, we must also compare the designs. Sometimes we may be comparing apples to oranges.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, to save time I will not have any preliminaries. I will just go straight to answering the question. This is an asphalt road for the 32 km and the last 3 km will be concrete because the traffic is slow and we require it to be a lot more durable.

Madam Speaker, so the rest of the design is here with me and the statement will be given to the House. The hon. Member who is technical will be able to read on what the design is.

 Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has given a very clear statement that it is a one-way road rehabilitation. The Government has equity interest in the Chingola/Kasumbalesa Road because the existing road is an equity contribution to the Government. The concessionaire who is coming is not building the extra lane, but rehabilitating the existing road that the Government has equity into. According to the Public Financial Management Act the hon. Minister cited, he said that an escrow account –

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, before I raise my point of order, I seek your permission to congratulate my party for which I am the Chairman of Elections for winning ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: ... all but two by-elections that just passed last Friday.

Madam Speaker, I am raising in reference to Standing Order No. 58 on manner of speaking. I will quote the said Standing Order:

“A member shall stand ad address the speaker when debating in the House.”

Madam Speaker, I see that the hon. Member of Parliament for Pambashe is intermittently pointing at the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development and worst still, he is putting his hands in his pockets when he is addressing adults. Is he in order to continue debating like that?

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Of course, I am one of the adults here.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: So, hon. Member for Pambashe Constituency, please, observe the Standing Orders as you put up your question.

You may proceed.

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, my successor, Eng. Charles Milupi, who surely understands that the 35 km road from Chingola to Kasumbalesa is the equity contribution he is coming with because the contractor is not building any new road. The contactor is going to rehabilitate the road which the Government spent the money to build.

Madam Speaker, according to the Republican Constitution, Article no. 210(3), states very clearly that where the Government has interest in terms of equity and when it wants to enter into partnership, the hon. Minister responsible shall lay that matter in Parliament for debate and ask for a two third majority approval that the Government has interest in the Chingola/Kasumbalesa Road. The Public Financial Management Act is very clear. It only empowers hon. Minister for Finance and National Planning to among other things, like the way the current collections are done, to deposit all the monies into Control 99 then it goes into the escrow account for management purposes.

Madam Speaker, I am speaking like this from the clear background that after enacting the Public Finance Management Act in 2019, there was a project for tolling in Zambia that created an escrow account. The hon. Minister of Justice then gave a legal opinion and said that you cannot run a separate account and that led to the cancellation of that project –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Pambashe, ask a question on a point of clarification. You are now debating and educating us on what you know, but I think this is a point where you ask a point clarification. Please, proceed and ask a question.

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, how does Eng. Charles Milupi, the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, intend to manage the collections that will be coming from the tolling of the road in question? At what point will the concessionaire take over the collection of tolls at Kasumbalesa Border Post, which the Government is collecting as of today? Is it at the completion or commencement of the project?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank one of my predecessors in this ministry. I wish they had the foresight to enter into things like this. Zambia would not be indebted to the extent that it is.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: However, let me assure the hon. Member because he has been raising these points right from when we started. He is talking about the Public Finance Management Act, but I have quoted the law here. When we were under a different Speaker in this House, we were always cautioned to be very careful about attempting to interpret the Constitution in this House. This is because it is not the responsibility of this House. Our mandate is to make the laws. However, we have followed all applicable laws in ensuring that this particular concession is signed.

Madam Speaker, in terms of concessions, it is not the first concession that has been signed, although we maintain that it is the first in terms of roads. So, my assurance to the nation and this House through the question raised by the hon. Member for Pambashe is that we have followed all laws.

Madam Speaker, the escrow accounts, as I have said in my statement, will be controlled by the two parties that have signed this agreement. It will be the Government through the contracting authority and also the private party.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I will encourage the hon. Member for Pambashe, if he has any suggestions, to engage the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development to see how best this can be achieved.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Kabwata this chance to ask a question. However, allow me to congratulate my party, the United Party for National Development (UPND), for having actually given a good beating to the opposition.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tayengwa: Madam Speaker, my question to the hon. Minister is: How or what criterion is going to be used to compensate those people who have been domiciled on that particular land for over ten or fifteen years and will be displaced but do not have title?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker,I am very thankful to my hon. Colleague, the hon. Member for Kabwata. I think when we are talking about compensation, we must be very careful that we do not open a Pandora’s Box. In my statement, I was very clear that part of the costs that the private party will incur will be compensation and moving of services from around the road. That bridge will be crossed because we do not know who has title or not and who is entitled or not. That will be workedout in conjunction with the civic leadership of Chingola andChililabombwe and the political leadership in those two areas.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister very much for going the public-private partnership (PPP) way. I only hope that the hon. Minister could extend this PPP model to other transportation infrastructures such as the railway line to offer some relief to the road infrastructure. However, mine is just to find out what the payback period for this concession will be.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the Member for Roan, Hon. Chibuye. I have stated that the concession period will be eighteen years, with a construction period of one year. That means the operation will be for seventeen years. During these seventeen years, however, there will be two periods of major rehabilitation in the seventh and eighth years. I think that will also happen in the sixteenth year so that when our partners exit, they leave an excellent road. What will determine the payback period is the ability of the project to meet the parameters that we have assigned.

Madam Speaker, that is why when it comes to revenue sharing, I must also add that during the concession period, the Government will not forego, totally, all the revenues. We will be participating in the sharing of that revenue. That is why we have developed a two-tier mechanism. The first tier is that if we are able to hit our revenue targets within 10 per cent, there are some percentages of how we share and the second one is if we go above that 10 per cent. So, the ability to collect revenues and the growth of the traffic volume here is what will determine the payback period.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker gave the Floor to Mr Twasa.

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, I think my question was covered by the hon. Member for Kabwata. So, I withdraw.

I thank you.

Mr Jamba (Mwembezhi): Madam Speaker, I just wanted to know whether the contract for this concession is going to be reviewed as we go along. This is because when I look at that road, I see that it is like a cone. The traffic from the north, west and south is converging into that road. We are seeing that the ministry is working so hard to open the road which goes through Mpweto and the other one on the western side. If the volumes were to reduce on that road, does the hon. Minister think that this concession would still be maintained for eighteen years?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. Jamba there, the hon. Member for Mwembezhi. All factors in negotiating and agreeing to this agreement have been taken into account. In fact, what he is referring to is what we call competing roads. So, we have looked at any possibility of a competing road. When he says the roads in the west or east, he is essentially talking about the Chingola/Solwezi Road. He is also talking about the Kitwe Road and so on and so forth. However, the main road is the one from Kasumbalesa to Chingola. We have ensured that there will be very minimal competition on that particular section.

Madam Speaker, that is why, when negotiating these things, the private party is very careful to ensure that they get the return on their investment, and this will be the case.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I have added five more minutes.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development has indicated that during this eighteen-year concessional period, rehabilitation will be done twice, I think, the eighth and sixteenth year. In the concession agreement, has the ministry set aside a fund that will be created to manage the expenses for rehabilitation?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Mwekera, oh sorry, Kamfinsa, for that question.

Laughter

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, we have taken all those matters into account. As I said, what I have issued here is fairly technical. So, the maintenance period, at seven and eight, is to ensure that we continue to have an excellent international road. The one at the end of the concession period will be to ensure that we take over a road that is, again, of international standard when that is over.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Halwiindi  (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, though my question was partly tackled by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwata, I want take it in a different direction. I just wanted to ask the hon. Minister over the issue of compensation. We have seen that most of the roads in Zambia are heavily encroached by people who go to settle there illegally. Even now, before works can start, there is a possibility that people can flock to the road side so that they are compensated. Is the hon. Minister doing something to make sure that no other people are coming into the road reserve so that we do not incur huge costs in terms of compensation?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Kabwe Central has hit the nail on the head. There is what is called a road reserve or way leaf, if you want to call it that way. Legally, the whole of that road reserve belongs to the Government, and anyone who develops in the road reserve does so illegally. That is why I said, in terms of compensation, it is not proper that I should open this discussion. All those matters will be taken into account. Those who are there legally either because they got land from the local or traditional authority, will be looked at. Matters of those who have encroached on the land which is not theirs, but for the Government, will take a different route.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, allow me to refer the hon. Minister to Public Finance Act No. 1 of 2018. Section 25 (1) states:

         “25. (1)            There is established a Treasury Single Account—

(a)        which shall serve as a unified structure of bank accounts to give a consolidated view of Government cash resources; and

(b)        into which all Government cash including monies received by public bodies shall be deposited and from which all expenditure of Government and public entities shall be made.”

Madam Speaker, this is the law. All the Toll Gates that have been invested in by the Government contribute to this very account. Even at Kasumbalesa Border Post, where toll fees are collected, the money goes to this single account. The desire of the Government and the concessionaires is to realise finances from that stretch. We have heard speculations from their people saying that maybe, their Toll Gates will be sold. So, we need to clear the air.

Hon. UPND Member: Question!

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, what does the hon. Minister intend to do? Is he going to put a Toll Gate on that stretch from which the concessionaire will recoup the money because we are already collecting about US$6 million per annum at Kasumbalesa. So, will that money we are already collecting go to this concession or they will start with a new Toll Gate after completing the works?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question.

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mundubile: Ah!

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to raise a point of order on the Patriotic Front Whip, Hon. Kampyongo, pursuant to Standing Order No. 65.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu in order to mislead himself by stating that there is a Toll Gate at Kasumbalesa, when in actual fact, there is no such a Toll Gate at Kasumbalesa? Is he in order to mislead himself to the extent that as he is misleading himself? Is he in order to quote the law wrongly?

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order!

If there is no Toll Gate at Kasumbalesa as raised by the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, then to that extent, he is out of order. I am not aware whether there is a Toll Gate or not at Kasumbalesa.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I did not say that.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Shiwang’andu.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu –

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Okay, did you mention a Toll Gate?

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I said that there is a point at the border facility …

Hon. Government Members: Aha!

Mr Kampyongo: … when we collect US$6 million per annum.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Okay.

Mr Kampyongo: That is what I referred to.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order, order.

Now, that is a debate that we are engaging in. This side is saying this, and the other side is saying this. There is nothing to support what is being alleged. So, let us make progress.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, first of all, let me confirm that on the stretch between Chingola and Kasumbalesa, there is no Toll Plaza or Toll Gate. Secondly, the issue of the account that the hon. Member is referring to, Control 99, I think, there are very few people in Zambia who have gone into details of what happens to Control 99 as myself because I was Chairperson of the Public Accounts Committee some years back, and we used to deal with those matters.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member has said here that the Public Finance Act stipulates that the Government revenues are to be deposited into Control 99, and we have no problem with that. What we have said in this agreement is that an escrow account will be established. There will be a revenue sharing mechanism. The share of the Government will be deposited into Control 99. It is straightforward.

 Madam Speaker, I thank you.

INCREASE OF MOSQUITOES IN LUSAKA AND LIVINGSTONE

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, I wish to thank you sincerely for granting me this opportunity to update the House and the nation at large, on the increase of mosquitoes in Lusaka and Livingstone districts, and other parts of the nation.

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to recall that on Friday, 28^th October, 2022, the Hon. Mr. Second Deputy Speaker, directed that a ministerial statement be issued on the increase of mosquitoes, countrywide.  This directive followed a matter of urgent public importance raised by Hon. R. Mutale, Member of Parliament for Chitambo Constituency.

Madam Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that the Government, through my ministry, has received reports of the increase in mosquito populations not only in Lusaka but also, in Livingstone, which is our tourist capital.

Madam Speaker, it is important to note from the outset that these mosquitoes that have increased in our two cities are what we call ‘nuisance mosquitoes’ as they do not spread malaria. They are a species of mosquitoes called culicines, which are not able to transmit the malaria parasites. This is why in these two cities, despite the increased mosquito populations, we still record relatively low malaria cases.

Madam Speaker, these mosquitoes breed in contaminated stagnant pools of water, which is common place for urban cities like Lusaka and Livingstone. This is the water found in sewer ponds, blocked drainages, shallow wells, quarrying ditches and containers due to indiscriminate disposal of garbage within our communities. This has been ascertained by our routine entomological surveillance activities that monitor mosquito-breeding sites, and identifies the species of mosquitoes across the country, including these two urban settings.

Madam Speaker, the increase of mosquitoes in Lusaka and Livingstone, and indeed, other parts of the country, is a concern to the Government through my ministry, as it negatively affects the well-being of our people. In this regard, we have embarked on a multi-sectoral approach to address this issue. The primary focus of the response is to intervene at the source, that is, where these mosquitoes breed through a programme called the Larval Source Management (LSM). This approach targets the immature aquatic stages of the mosquitoes.

Madam Speaker, my ministry, in collaboration with line ministries such as the Ministry Local Government and Rural Development and the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation, is conducting activities to address this problem.

Madam Speaker, there is clearing of sewer ponds of all growing vegetation and then spraying with insecticides called larvicides to kill the immature aquatic stages of mosquitoes. Application of larvicides sites will be conducted every two weeks and we plan to conduct four rounds of this activity;

 

Madam Speaker, the unblocking of drainages is also being carried out by the local authorities under the Ministry Local Government and Rural Development. This is key to allow water to freely flow.

Madam Speaker, I want to reiterate that mosquitoes do not breed in flowing water. As such, we have continued sensitising our people not to dump garbage indiscriminately, which then, finds its way to our drainage systems that in turn, get blocked and provide for an environment for these mosquitoes to breed. Let us all do our part in this regard as part of keeping of cities and indeed, our country clean. This intervention alone can significantly reduce these mosquito populations.

Madam Speaker, in addition, correct disposal of garbage also significantly reduces mosquito populations. Containers that have collected water are a breeding site for mosquitoes. This also includes old tyres, abandoned motor vehicles and indeed, any receptacle that can collect water. We must do our part to ensure that there is appropriate disposal of these items.

Madam Speaker, the Government through the Ministry of Health, launched In-door Residual Spraying (IRS) on 5^th October, 2022. The IRS is an intervention that targets and kills adult mosquitoes that enter in our houses. Currently, IRS is being carried out in all the districts of our country. I am therefore, appealing to all the residents to allow their houses to be sprayed and also, encourage their neighbours to do the same.

Madam Speaker, in order to protect the most vulnerable populations such as the pregnant women and children under five, we are distributing insecticides treated mosquito nets through antenatal and Under Five clinics. The rest of the people will also be given mosquito nets through the mass distribution campaign, which the Government through Ministry of Health, will carry in 2023, in collaboration with our partners.

Madam Speaker, I want to inform the House that this increase in non-malaria transmitting mosquito population is not just a Ministry of Health issue, but requires a multi-sectoral approach. We envisage continuing working together with key stakeholders to address this problem by being champions within our communities to ensure that we act collectively to resolve this issue.

Madam Speaker, let me also indicate that under the decentralisation policy programme, the Ministry of Health will be decentralising much of this work back to the local authorities, which are local councils. In the past, the issue of IRS was not only an event but, was part of every day programme for local authorities. Over the years, this became centralised, hence this problem. So, going forward, the Ministry of Health, hopefully by 2023, will have fully decentralised these functions, including the distribution of nets and IRS programme.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, allow me to re-emphasise the fact that despite the increase in the non-malaria transmitting mosquitoes, the malaria burden has reduced in the two districts compared to the same period in 2021.

Madam Speaker, allow me to state that the Government remains resolute in the fight against malaria and encourages all citizens to accept and utilise all the available malaria interventions.

 

Madam Speaker, I want to acknowledge the high political commitment and support from His Excellency, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, President of the Republic of Zambia, for increasing funding to the health sector so that the key challenges facing the malaria elimination programme could be addressed.

Madam Speaker, I also want to thank the donors that continue to support us.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister.

Mr Shakafuswa (Mandevu): Madam Speaker, Mandevu hosts one of the biggest breeding points for mosquitoes. Actually, there are two mosquito-breeding points. There is the Garden Sewer Ponds and the Bombay Drainage. However, I have gone through the strategy or the number of operators the Ministry of Health intends to use in Lusaka, particularly, in Mandevu. The ministry wants to spray over 82,000 structures using forty people. I am reliably informed that the chemicals are not enough. How ready is the ministry to conduct this exercise?

Madam Speaker, I say this because from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) for Mandevu, we had put aside some resources for this exercise but, the focal point person at Chipata Level One Hospital told us that the ministry had enough resources. What I have seen on the ground is adverse or rather, not true. Is the ministry ready in terms of manpower and resources to conduct this exercise effectively?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, regarding whether the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) can be used for this function, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, who is seated next to me, told me to tell the hon. Member to take the application and he will approve it tomorrow.

Madam Speaker, on whether the Ministry of Health has enough resources in cash, medicines or workers to conduct this, the answer is yes and no. Yes, in that every time the Ministry of Health comes up with an exercise or a programme, it normally achieves beyond 70 per cent. So, it is possible that even now, we will be able to reach between 80 and 100 per cent. Normally, we are supported by partners and even the hon. Member indicated thathe will help us using part of the CDF. So, obviously, we shall succeed.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister alluded to the fact that the mosquitoes currently biting people are a nuisance. However, there are also different species of mosquitos that transmit different kinds of micro-organismsand cause diseases like elephantiasis or dengue fever and so on and so forth. Has theministry done staging on the species of mosquitos currently affecting us so that people are aware because any kind of mosquito, depending on the species, can transmit different diseases apart from malaria?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, the statement alludes to the fact that the mosquitoescurrently in Lusaka and Livingstone have been checked and that they are just a nuisance, but not able to transmit malaria. As regards any other diseases, I cannot indicate whether that is possible or not.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, I rose on a matter of urgent public importance last week and I was directed to wait for the ministerial statement on this important topic.In raising this follow-up question, I assure the hon. Minister that I want her ministry to succeed in ensuring that it prevents as many people as possible from getting malaria.

Madam Speaker, on the Copperbelt, in Kitwe in particular, an exercise commenced,and the hon. Minister referred to it in her statement,the indoor spraying with chemicals to prevent the spread of malaria, and it was supposed to run for fifty-five days, but the report we received, which I have confirmed, is that the young men and women only worked for twelve days and were told that it had come to an end. That status quo does not assure the residents of Kitwe, and Kamfinsa in particular, that they will not get malaria which is very dangerous, as the hon. Minister might be aware.

Madam Speaker, is the ministry ready to undertake this exercise for the full length of the period in order to ensure that the residents, particularly the people of Kamfinsa, are not affected by the exercise which has been shortened from the initial fifty-five days that were allocated? This has raised concerns because the young men and women signed contracts and they need to be paid for fifty-five days, and there are other challenges which need to be addressed. Is the ministry ready to undertake this exercise for fifty-five days or more depending onthe right impact it will have?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I would not know the individual programmes for each district. As the hon. Memberisaware, this programme is in all the 116 districts and each district makes its own plan. The planning is not done from the Ministry of Health. It is incumbent on the district health department and the local authority to make their own programmes looking at the number of households and areas which are badly affected. However, what I know is that houses in all districts are supposed to be sprayed. So, the issue of reducing the fifty-five daysto thirty daysis an administrative matter in the districts in particular and the hon. Member of Parliament is at liberty to get in touch with the mayor and the director of health to understand. He should come and say he has spoken to those people and tell us what they have told him. As it is, the days for implementing this programme might have been reduced,but I would not know.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving the good people of Mbabala an opportunity to ask a follow-up question on the wonderful statement issued by the hon. Minister.

Madam Speaker, with your permission, may I begin by acknowledging, thanking and congratulating the people of Zambia for the wonderful confidence shown in President Hakainde Hichilema’s Government and Administration following the landslide scooping of the various seats that were on offer last week where we got all the council seats and nineteen out of the twenty-one ward elections.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munsanje: This shows that the country had undergone a referendum and has chosen to be red rejecting the so-called rebranding that is going in the wrong direction.

Madam Speaker, in Mbabala in Choma, there is one of the largest malaria research centres in this world specialised in malaria elimination in line with the National Malaria Elimination Control Programme. I am wondering what lessons have been learnt from the elimination of mosquitoes and malaria in that area so they can be applied in the entire country, especially here in Lusaka where we are facing this challenge.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, there is a centre for malaria here in Lusaka which collaborates with various malaria elimination programme units throughout the country such as the one the hon. Member has just articulated. They work quite closely and, from time to time, they do robust entomological surveillance in the 2022 sentinel sites from all the ten provinces, and they are doing various studies. Arising from this kind of interaction, we make some decisions based on their findings.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that elaborate statement.

Madam Speaker, we have heard that the mosquitoes in Lusaka and elsewhere are just a nuisance, and they are a serious nuisance, but that they do not spread malaria. However, a snake is a snake, and even if someone says it is not venomous, you cannot sleep with it in the same room. That is a fact. Mosquitoes are a serious nuisance and you would not sleep if one was in your room making noise. My question to the hon. Minister of Health is: Would she have handled this issue differently if these mosquitoes were spreading malaria?

Madam Speaker: Unfortunately, that is a hypothetical question, which is not allowed by our Standing Orders. So, we will go to the next question.

Mr Chinkuli (Kanyama): Thank you very much Madam Speaker. My question has been overtaken by events.

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): Madam Speaker, has the Ministry of Health engaged stakeholders in the affected areas to help sensitise the communities so that breeding areas are cleaned?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, yes, we are working with stakeholders. Like I said initially, we are approaching this matter through a multi-sectoral model. To that effect, we are working with the private sector apart from the donors. The private sector has come on board to support us in this exercise.

Madam Speaker, we are targeting a population of 2.7 million out of the 11 million people affected. We are also sensitising members of the public through electronic and print media. There are also some community meetings through the ward development and neighbourhood health committees. They are sensitising people on proper waste disposal and how to keep the surrounding clean through management of vegetation. We are also encouraging burying of ditches and shallow wells and teaching people the importance of sleeping under mosquito nets. We are also ensuring that those who are going around are given access to houses to spray them. So, there is quite a bit of work that is going on.

Madam Speaker, like I said, everything is going on simultaneously in all the provinces. Obviously, there are a few districts that have not been covered and I think these are districts where there are no mosquitoes. We hope that by the third week of November, we should have finished the whole process of spraying.

Madam Speaker, like I said, in the past, in those good days, you will recall that when you were young, spraying of mosquitoes was not a big function for the hon. Minister of Health or the hon. Minister of Local Government. It was something that was part of the programme of local authorities. Every local authority knew that in this period, it had to clear tall grass, clear the drainage systems and make sure there is no stagnant water and fill up everything. They also knew what time to do the spraying. Spraying was not an event but something that was done almost every day. However, over the years when systems started changing, we saw this function become a Ministry of Health function and over time, obviously, the Ministry of Health has been overwhelmed. It cannot manage, and this is why primary health care functions such as these ones are being decentralised to local authorities. Going forward, hopefully by next year this time, we should not be talking about mosquitoes because I hope that by next year this time, the spraying would have been done long before the rainy season started.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned the activities that will be undertaken. Is it possible for the hon. Minister to indicate how much is going to be spent to undertake all these activities?

Madam Speaker: I am not sure whether the hon. Minister is ready for that because it is a detail rather than a follow up question. Maybe the hon. Minister can answer.

Mrs Masebo: Important as the question is, Madam Speaker, unfortunately, I do not have the figures. All I know is that mosquito nets will be distributed and 2.7 million households have to be sprayed. Also, mosquito nets are going to be given to all our pregnant mothers and children under the age of five. That kind of budgeting has already been done and we have the resources for that. Thanks to our co-operating partners and the Government that have made it available.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Chewe (Lubansenshi): Thank you Madam Speaker. My question has been overtaken by events.

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, the National Assembly Motel was the first place where we experienced this disturbance of mosquitoes. A lot of spraying has been done but the problem does not seem to go away. Is the hon. Minister assuring us that once this spraying is done, we are going to have a reduction of mosquitoes around the country? At the National Assembly, the spraying has failed?

Mrs Masebo: First of all, I did not know, Madam Speaker, that we have failed to kill mosquitoes here at the National Assembly. The spraying of mosquito insecticide normally is very effective. However, I have noted that in the past, by the time the rainy season came, like it has, we would have already sprayed. We started spraying in October before the rains and we have continued spraying or we will continue spraying even during the rainy season. That is a problem, and we fear that the effectiveness may not be that good as a result. All things being equal, this is why we are going to do four rounds of spraying and we are hoping that doing four rounds of spraying will effectively kill the larvae.

Having said that, there are certain actions, Madam Speaker, that are effective. For example, we know that mosquitoes breed around stagnant water. So, let us close those places ourselves as residents of some of these surroundings. I think hon. Members of Parliament, councillors and mayors have a big role to play to mobilise communities to help themselves. Also, sleeping under a mosquito net should be encouraged for the young. We must do that. I know that sometimes even when the Government gives mosquito nets people do not use them; they feel lazy but mosquito nets help. There is evidence to show that when you sleep under a mosquito net, you will not suffer from malaria.

Madam Speaker, I know that we have few districts where the spraying has not started because the chemicals will only be given to them I think next week, whilst areas like Lusaka and Livingstone which are highly prone to have mosquitoes started spraying on time. There are districts where maybe the mosquitoes are not really a challenge but we still need to spray the whole country. So, these are some of the challenges we have and which we expect. Going forward, we expect to do better as a country.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Madam Speaker, thank you for the correction; the nuisance mosquitoes that do not spread malaria. There are anopheles mosquitoes that spread malaria. Do people with certain blood groups attract mosquito bites? I ask this because when I sit here, I am the only person being bitten by mosquitoes.

Madam Speaker: I do not know whether it is nonsense or nuisance. It is nuisance not nonsense.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, sorry, I apologise. I did not really catch the question. If the hon. Member may repeat the question.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Masaiti, maybe, you can recast your question.

Mr Katambo: Madam Speaker, thank you for the correction. Are there certain blood groups that attract the nuisance mosquitoes or the anopheles?

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister, I hope you have gotten the question. A female mosquito has been brought in.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, indeed, the female mosquito is the one that carries the disease. However, like I said, particularly in Lusaka and Livingstone, majority of the mosquitoes are the ones being called non-malaria carrying mosquitoes.

Madam Speaker, in the past nine months and even now, the mosquitoes on the Copperbelt are vicious and very dangerous and they kill. For Lusaka, studies have been done – yes, of course, we still have malaria patients here in Lusaka, except that the numbers are very low compared to the bites. The mosquitoes will always bite, even the ones which do not give malaria. They are a nuisance, but the point is that they may not carry malaria.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: To the credit of the hon. Minister of Health, I am sure there are no mosquitoes in the Chamber, as was the case when we started. So, thank you very much for that. There has been a challenge to all of us that we need to keep our surroundings clean. Let us start with our own personal homes. We should make sure that we pick up the litter and clean the surroundings. That way, we will be helping in the fight against malaria and the nuisance mosquitoes.

_______

BILL

THIRD READING

The following Bill was read the third time and passed.

The Zambia Development Agency Bill, 2022

_______

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

VOTE 10 – (Zambia Police Service Commission – K18,826,731)

The Minister of Defence and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Lufuma): Madam Chairperson, thank you so much for the opportunity to render a policy statement on the Zambia Police Service Commission. I would like to repeat, the Zambia Police Service Commission and not Zambia Police Service.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you for according me the opportunity to present the 2023 budget estimates for the Zambia Police Service Commission.

Mandate

Madam Chairperson, the Zambia Police Service Commission is a constitutional and statutory body mandated to provide human resource functions to the Zambia Police Service under Constitution Amendment Act No. 2 of 2016,established under Article 226 and the Service Commissions Act No.10 of 2016.The commission is responsible for ensuring that appointments, confirmations, promotions, transfer, gradings, attachments, secondments, discipline and separation of personnel in the Zambia Police Service and National Immigration Department are done in accordance with the prescribed guidelines and procedures.

Mission statement

Madam Chairperson, the work of the commission is guided by the following mission statement, to manage human resource for a sustainable crime free society.

Functions of the Commission

Madam Chairperson, the Zambia Police Service Commission is charged with the responsibility of human resource management in the Zambia Police Service as provided for in the Constitution Amendment Act No. 2 of 2016 and the Service Commission Act No. 10 of 2016. The Commission’s budget for 2023 is premised on strategic development area number four of the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP) which focuses on ensuring that there is an improved policy and governance environment.

Overview of the 2022 Budget Performance

Madam Chairperson, the commission was allocated a total of K13,590,010 only. Of this amount, K9,852,806 only goes for personal emoluments and K3,700,000 for good and service.

This was funded to execute highlighted programmes as follows:

Governance and Standards

1. sensitised police and immigration officers on human resource reforms in three provinces, namely; the Southern, Luapula and Lusaka, provinces;
2. reviewed the 2019-2021 strategic plan and currently formulating the 2022-2026 strategic plan, service charter and balanced scorecard for the commission;
3. developed human resource management guidelines and procedures for recruitment and placement of officers in the Zambia Police Service;
4. sensitised police and immigration officers on process and procedures on handling complaints and appeals in the police service and immigration;
5. processed forty-nine appeals and disciplinary cases in the police service and immigration;
6. procured four 4 x 4 motor vehicles in order to enhance monitoring and evaluation of delegated functions; and
7. inducted newly appointed commissioners on the operations of the Zambia Police Service Commission.

Human Resource Management

Madam Chairperson, under this programme, the following were done:

1. established and inducted eighteen human resource management committees in the Southern, Lusaka and Luapula provinces in line with the Decentralisation Policy;
2. appointed sixty-five officers in the national Immigration Department;
3. confirmed 196 officers in the police service and national Immigration Department;
4. separated 247 officers from the police service and national Immigration Department;
5. transferred 164 officers in the police service and national Immigration Department; and
6. promoted 222 officers in the police service and national Immigration Department;

2023 Budget Estimate

Madam Chairperson, the commission has been allocated a total amount of K18,826,731 only in the 2023 estimates of expenditure. The functions are performed through three key programmes, namely:

1. Governance and Standards

This comprises four sub-programmes with the critical role of enhancing monitoring and evaluation to ensure compliance to the set standards, guidelines and regulations. The commission will sensitise the police and immigration officers on human resource management reforms and on the revised terms and conditions of service, disciplinary code and grievance handling procedures. The commission will also computerise records and procure motor vehicles. The programme estimate is at K3,999,890 only.

The following are the sub-programmes under this programme:

1. Standards, Guidelines and Regulations;
2. Discipline, Complaints and Appeals;
3. Record Management; and
4. Monitoring and Evaluation.

1. Human Resource Management

This is responsible for implementing human resource management reforms, establishment of human resource management committees and capacity building for effective and efficient processing of delegated human resource functions. The programme estimate is at K8,439,216. The sub-programme is Human Resource and Management; and

(i)         human resource and management.

1. Management and Support Services

This is meant to undertake timely and effective provision of management and administration of support services to ensure smooth operations of the commission. The programme will involve development of the 2022-2026 strategic plan, service delivery charter and balanced scorecard. The programme estimate is at K6,387,625 only. The sub-programmes are as follows:

1. Executive Office Management;
2. Human Resource Management and Administration; and
3. Planning, Policy and Co-ordination.

Madam Chairperson, in summary, the commission’s operational Budget Estimates for 2023 amounts to K18,826,731 only, on which the above mentioned programmes will be undertaken.

Conclusion

Madam Chairperson, the Budget Estimates and the proposed programmes will greatly contribute to the attainment of a good governance environment. I, therefore, urge this august House to approve the 2023 estimates for the commission as presented.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

The Chairperson: Mr Tayangwe.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Chairperson, actually it is not Tayangwe. It is Tayengwa.

The Chairperson: Sorry for that.

Mr Tayengwa: Madam Chairperson, thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on this Head.

Madam Chairperson, the Police Service Commission was established so that it could perform the duties on behalf of the police command in terms of human resource such as handling issues of promotion, separation, and the like. If you look at the way the Police Service Commission has been operating in the past, I think you would agree with me that the commission itself has never been funded adequately. If you have a weak Police Service Commission, then you expect to breed a weak police service.

Madam Chairperson, as a result of that, I feel that even the allocation for the Police Service Commission in this year’s Budget should have actually been increased a bit more, so that it can cater for a number of issues that the commission is facing.

Madam Chairperson, first of all, I will talk about the challenges that the commission is facing. I will first start with the issue of the commission secretaries. If you read Section 20 of the Service Commissions Act of 2016, you will agree with me that the commission secretaries were actually supposed to have been appointed by the commissioner of the police. However, what is happening now is that these secretaries to the commission are being appointed by the Civil Service Commission, which should not be the case. I believe that the Act is there and I think it is incumbent upon those who are actually in authority to follow what the Act says, that these commission secretaries should be appointed by the commissions themselves.

Madam Chairperson, secondly –

The Chairperson: Order!

The side talks on my left are becoming too loud. They are disturbing the hon. Member who ios on the Floor. Can we reduce the noise.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: We can continue.

Mr Tayengwa: Madam Chairperson, the second thing that I want to bring to your attention is the issue of remuneration. If you compare the salaries or allowances that the Chairperson and his counterparts who are commissioners appointed by the President get, you will discover that the gap is too wide. You cannot have a situation where somebody gets four times more than the other. Again, there is no way the Secretary to the Commission who is supposed to be appointed by the Chairperson can get the same amount as the commissioners who are appointed by the President.

Madam Chairperson, I think there is need to harmonise the issue of salaries so that these commissioners can be motivated. As it is, if you look at the way things stand, you will discover that these commissioners feel demotivated because there is no way some people can get four times more than them.

Madam Chairperson, the third point I want to talk about is the issue of office space. I have been privileged to visit the office where the commissions are housed. That building was constructed many years ago and if I was an engineer, I would actually certify it not habitable for human beings. The toilets at the offices are not even working. The furniture that the Police Service Commissioners are using is actually outdated. I think there is need to improve the lives of these commissioners so that we can have a better service which is well-supported in terms of financial contributions from the Government.

Madam Chairperson, I am a bit concerned about the issue of technology. There is no way you can have a commission that is using an outdated system. You cannot be using the manual system in this modern era. I feel that the commission should be empowered. Let us try and see how best we can introduce small computers. Technology has to be introduced in these commissions. I believe that the men and women who are serving in those offices can deliver if they are motivated. However, if we continue having a Police Service Commission that is very weak, then we are going to end up having a weak police service due to lack of motivation.

Madam Chairperson, let me quickly turn to the issue of transport. I think if you look at the way these commissions have been surviving, they barely have vehicles. It is good that the Budget is speaking about buying 4 x 4 vehicles for this commission. I hope and trust that this issue will be implemented. Without transportation, these commissioners will not be able to travel to Kashinakazi or Dambombola in Manyinga. It will be very difficult for them to do that.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Tayengwa: Madam Chairperson, if the issue of transportation can be sorted out, these commissioners will be able to go and hear some of the cases in far flung areas.

Madam Chairperson, as you know, the Police Service Commission is an important institution that is helping the police service to run its affairs. The other issue that I will quickly turn to is the issue of post cards. You will find that the commission, in the past or just a few months ago, could promote some people but the problem was the issue of post cards. I believe those in authority need to correct this issue because there is rampant misuse of post cards. There is no way that, when the command appoints, all of a sudden, these post cards come like they have just dropped from heaven, like it is manna. When the commission appoints, it takes time for those people to be given post cards.

With these few words, Madam Chairperson, I want thank you for giving the good people of Kabwata this opportunity to talk.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Chairperson, the Police Service Commission is responsible for promoting and administrating men and women in the police service and the Immigration Department. We expect the commissioners to exercise independence in dealing with matters of promotion, disciplining of erring officers, and recommendation for retirement of officers alongside the wish of the President who said that no officer will be retired in national or public interest.

Madam Chairperson, we, on the left, want to support the commission and emphasise the need to protect officers who have served this country in different political parties diligently. Political parties come and go, but the Government remains functioning. The Government machinery is key. Disturbing an institution that runs the Government by purging out officers who are supposed to be protected by the commission, on basis of allegations of tribal or political affiliation will compromise the integrity and standing of the commissioners who are appointed.

 

Madam Chairperson, where I come from, we say, “Akamana ukupoma ni pamabwe. Imfumu bumutangala nipabantu.” This means that you can only be called commissioners if you have got people whom you superintend over. If you cannot protect, defend or appropriately deal with erring officers or promote deserving ones, how can this House be made to stand and support the Budget of the commission? The commissioners must understand that they took oath to serve the people of Zambia, to protect the Constitution and any written law, so that the people whom they are superintending over have solace and believe that they are being superintended upon by a commission that will not abrogate the law and Acts that relate to human resource management and administration.

Madam Chairperson, clearly speaking, this House, in 2018 or 2020, passed a very important Act of Parliament called the Employment Code Bill. It is very clear that as we deal with human resource matters, even where we are dealing with erring officers, there are procedures that we need to follow. There are procedures that we need to adhere to as we are both dealing or intending to promote deserving officers. It is shocking and very absurd that an officer who has diligently served for more than twenty to thirty years can be let go without a reason. That Act was amended and included to protect the officers who are superintended over by the commission.

The commission has a duty to check which officer genuinely requires to be promoted to which rank or which officer genuinely deserves to be dismissed. I understand that the Inspector-General of Police’s role is to promote officers from the rank of Police Sergeant to the Chief Inspector of Police, and the commission has a duty to promote senior officers starting from the rank of Assistant Superintendant of Police to Deputy Commissioner of Police. Therefore, the commission has a duty to protect these workers.

Shakespeare said that this world is like a stage. We all come to play our part and we go. When your time comes to play your part, do not think you will go with this world; it will remain. So, I want to emphasise that, today, you may be the Chairperson for the Zambia Police Service Commission and, tomorrow, you will not be there. When I was doing marketing, one of the gurus said it is good for the seller and very painful for the buyer. You can sell something at K20, but the buyer will struggle to look for that money. So, you must understand that today you area seller, tomorrow you will be a buyer.

Madam Chairperson, one hon. Minister responsible for information said empty tins make a lot of noise. So, when you hear noise coming from somewhere, this will tell you that the cup is not half empty but that it is empty. So, that does not bother me in anyway. We need to deal with matters that affect the Zambian people. The commission should not listen to those who give wrong advice. It has the legal and constitutional mandate to advise.

Mr Nkandu interjected.

The Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Minister in that corner, please, do not interject. Let us give the hon. Member room to debate.

You may continue.

Mr Chitotela: Thank you, Madam Chairperson, for protecting me from my young brother the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Art, Mr Elvis Nkandu, and my former something from Kitwe; he knows.

Laughter

Mr Chitotela: So, I want to emphasise that–

Interruptions

Mr Chitotela: No, he is my brother.

Madam Chairperson, in conclusion, I want to emphasise that the commission’s key functions are human resource management and placement, and we will not support truant officials. However, the commission should bear in mind that when it sends away one loyal member who has served this country genuinely and diligently without reasonable cause, it subjects not only that member but his/her family to hardships and difficult conditions out there. So, it should make decisions with a human face and based on the law, then, it will be supported.

Madam Chairperson, with these strong recommendations to the commission, I support this budget line.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Andeleki (Katombola): Madam Chairperson, thank you very much for allowing the people of Katombola to add their voice to the budget line relating to the Zambia Police Service Commission, which I am personally interested in, being a former police officer.

Madam Chairperson, allow me to begin by joining many other hon. Members who debated before me, in congratulating the mighty United Party for National Development (UPND)…

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Andeleki: …for the massive victory that was delivered last week. This is a demonstration of the confidence reposed in the New Dawn Government. It was a Chilanga mulilo to our colleagues–

Hon. Opposition Members: Meaning!

Mr Andeleki: Chilanga mulilo meaning we were showing that throughout the country, the new dawn policies have started gaining ground.

Madam Chairperson, getting back to the subject matter before the Floor of this august House, the Zambia Police Service Commission is a very important institution because it is mandated specifically to handle matters to do with the Zambia Police Service, the custodian of internal security and the peace that we enjoy in this country. There would be no national development if there were no peace in this country.

Madam Chairperson, allow me to begin with the mandates of the Zambia Police Service Commission and one of them is that of recruitment or appointment of officers. I want to emphasise that the appointment of police officers is very important because, ultimately, that is what guarantees whether we will have disciplined police officers or not, and this mandate is very important. The people of Katombola thank the Government for this budget line, but they feel it should have done much more because the service commission has a very serious mandate to appoint police officers to maintain peace in this country.

Madam Chairperson, I congratulate the Zambia Police Service for maintaining peace in this country. This country has not had war because the Zambian people have been very peaceful, and in most instances than not, the Zambia Police Service has been professional. So, I commend the gallant men and women in uniform who at most times risked their lives and some lost their lives in most instances. In the previous Government, we saw that sometimes, these officers were not even promoted.

Madam Chairperson, the major issue I want to talk about is that of discipline. The level of discipline in the Zambia Police Service is what determines whether we will have a good police service in this country or not, and this is the role of the service commission. Lately, we have seen police officers drive vehicles with a beacon and we do not know whether they are police officers or thugs and I am sure the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security has taken note of that. Nearly every car moves with a beacon. Sometimes, it could be officers driving an unregistered vehicle on an opposite lane and shooting in the air.

Hon. Government Member: ECL!

Mr Andeleki: Yes, some number plates were marked ECL 2021 and things like that, and this has caused indiscipline on the road. I appeal to the hon. Minister, and particularly the service commission, to ensure that the officers are disciplined not only on the road, but wherever they appear because that reflects whom we are as a country called Zambia. I am here as a Member of Parliament because of the discipline inculcated in me by the Zambia Police Service, particularly the service commission, that was responsible for my training and appointed me in the file and ranks of the Zambia Police Service.

Madam Chairperson, allow me to also address the delayed promotions in the Zambia Police Service. It is the role of the service commission to promote the officers. Some of the officers have served this country diligently, but you will find that for twenty-five years, an officer is still a police constable. It is very strange indeed, and I appeal to the service commission as we debate its budget line to be more robust like the commission that I had when I served under the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government. That was a more robust service commission because it stood firm. So, I urge the Peter Machungwa led service commission to listen to the grievances of the officers.

Madam Chairperson, most officers have served diligently for twenty-five years, but retire as constables. When you check the record, you will find that these officers have not even committed any disciplinary offence and the commission will do well to motivate such officers by promoting them. Some officers have ranks that are not recognised. An officer retires as an assistant superintendant, but the file shows that he is a constable. Some have ranks that they are not earning a salary for. Therefore, the service commission should do much more, and I am yet to be convinced. It needs to do much more to ensure that officers are taken care of and motivated through the ranks in the Zambia Police Service because promotion is delayed.

Madam Chairperson, I have already talked about discipline and the Zambia Police Service Commission will do well to take a leaf on matters of discipline from the Zambia Army.

Madam, on defence and security, I commend the Minister of Defence and the command of those areas, including the Zambia Police Service. They must do much more to ensure that the issue of discipline of police officers is improved.

Madam Speaker, allow the people of Katombola to bring in the issue of extrajudicial detentions and killings that we saw previously.

Mr Sing’ombe: Hear, hear!

Mr Andeleki: This should never resurface again. It is the role of the service commission to ensure that persons are not arbitrarily detained in facilities called police cells beyond the prescribed period. The prescribed period is properly articulated in the provisions of Article 33 of our Criminal Procedure Code Chapter 88 of the Laws of Zambia.

Madam Chairperson, the police do not have a mandate to keep persons in detention for purposes of investigations or for purposes beyond that for which they have been taken into custody. Therefore, the Government is losing colossal sums of money in paying reparations and compensation for persons arbitrarily detained. This needless loss of income should be ended through discipline and professionalism in the Zambia Police Service.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Andeleki: The Zambia Police Service must not take sides. The Zambia Police Service must not take political interests. They are professional officers and we want them to be as such. I am saying this because of the needless loss of life that occurred previously. Most of our brothers and sisters lost their lives because of unprofessional police officers and this is not correct.

Interruptions

Mr Andeleki: By previous Governments, we are talking of the Patriotic Front (PF) and other Governments.

Interruptions

Mr Andeleki: Madam Chairperson, could I be protected?

Madam Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Chairperson, thank you for giving a chance to the people of Lundazi to debate this Vote for the Zambia Police Service Commission. I have a special attachment to this one because I grew up in a police camp and my father was a police officer.

Madam Chairperson, as this Budget of K18 million is being passed, I feel a bit sad because the work that is given to the Zambia Police Service Commission is enormous. Right now, they are supposed to be recruiting officers but you will find that they do not even have vehicles or transportation.

Madam, I do not know when the commission will ever go to Lundazi. This may end up disadvantaging the officers in Lundazi who may retire as constables or, by chance they may retire as sergeants and yet people have improved their qualifications. I even lectured some of them and they have degrees and master’s degrees.

Madam, as I debate this Vote, let me talk about the lack of gender-sensitive based promotions. Today, we are talking about officers who are being recalled from retirement to serve right now. You find that most of them are being given positions but alas most of them are men. Does that mean that in retirement we do not have women who worked hard and can be given these high positions where you can find some energy and goodwill? As a commission, they should be sensitive when they are calling people out of retirement so that they are giving a chance to both the men and the women. After all, the people who commit crimes could either be men or women.

Madam Chairperson, the commission should try to look into the issue of accommodation. Right now, most of the officers in Lundazi are still living in houses where toilets are outside. In this time and era, it is important that the commission looks into the welfare of the people it employs.

Madam, apart from that, when you are driving through the Great East Road and reach Luangwa, you can really see the misery of the officers because they are still sleeping in those tents which are moldy and sometimes you see the officers wearing uniforms that are almost finished. I urge the commission to be sensitive and ensure that the officers who are serving this country very well are given the dignity they deserve.

Madam Chairperson, there is the issue of being transferred and linked with their families. It has already been said that officers whose families are living apart should be allowed to be joined with their partners. Many have applied, but you find that up to today, most of them have not been joined. As a commission, take interest in all this. This is just the beginning. Who knows? The next Budget may be booming and it may be that which can motivate them. If they perform very well with this small resource, one day they may just look into the good and they may be able to get a good amount at the end of the day.

Madam, let me also talk about the transport for officers. Most officers are riding bicycles whilst the thieves they are trying to catch are driving a Mark X or Mercedes Benz. How can you be able to run through the borders, especially in Lundazi, and catch some type of thief with such type of transport? I encourage the Zambia Police Service Commission to go around the country and probably ask us, the Members of Parliament, so that we can give it information so that it can look at how its officers are living out there. Their accommodation is bad. Some of them have been separated from their wives for a very long time and this has ended in most officers taking their lives.

Madam Chairperson, in addition, the commission should take an interest to check through the police camps. Most of the houses are being occupied by widows and widowers who could have gotten some of their pension but have not been given their repatriation money. This has caused most of the new officers to fail to access some of these houses which would assist the new officers.

Madam, the traffic officers who were barred from mounting roadblocks have been given a bit of leeway. If they are not controlled, especially in rural areas where we are coming from, it will become a bit of a challenge because our people cannot ride their motorbikes as they are being charged constantly.

Madam Chairperson, with these few remarks, I support this Vote with all my heart.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Chairperson, thank you so much for giving me time to add a few comments on this very interesting Vote.

Madam, the Zambia Police Service Commission is charged with the responsibility of looking at staff welfare matters of men and women in uniform who are in the Zambia Police Service. The rationale behind the constitutional decision to separate the Zambia Correctional Service and the Zambia Police Service in terms of the commissions was to enhance the operations of the Police Service Commission.

Madam Chairperson, therefore, let me put it on record that the composition of the commission should be of men and women who understand the operations of the Zambia Police Service.

Madam Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Chairperson, I began my discourse by stating that the composition of this very important commission should be of men and women who understand the operations of the Zambia Police Service. Yes, indeed, the current commission is chaired by one of my senior predecessors, who was hon. Minister of Home Affairs at some point, but he needs to have people who are competent enough. Those who have the responsibility to constitute this commission must be mindful of the fact that the matters the commission deals with are very critical. We are talking about disciplinary matters, appointments, transfers and promotions. You need people who will be able to take stock of the entire service.

Madam Chairperson, my hon. Colleagues, the hon. Member of Parliament for Katombola and the hon. Member of Parliament for Lundazi raised some issues. The commission is small and centralised to address those issues. So, in the absence of a functional system, it is not easy to address those issues. The Leader of Government Business in the House is well-placed to understand that where you have functional systems, it is very easy to take stock of the progression of officers from the point of entry. You are able to monitor their progression and capacity building and how they are progressing in their careers. He is coming from a ministry where these systems are in place. He knows when someone is going to move from being a lance corporal to a staff serjeant. They are subjected to promotion examinations and all those kinds of things in the system.

So, we need to replicate that system for the Zambia Police Service Commission because in the absence of that, we will end up with people being promoted using familiarity, for example. You need to be informed who got in first and how they have progressed. So, it is very important that you create a robust system that will entail in-service training programmes which already started. This should be for the entire police service.

Madam Chairperson, there are officers who are in far-flung areas, for example, and it takes time for the commission to visit those areas in order to consider the officers who are in far-flung areas. That is why you find some officers serving as constables for more than twenty years and this is demotivating to the officers. So, we need to have a robust system that should take stock of officers at all layers of entry.

Madam Chairperson, the service commission must make informed decisions. For example, when you are getting rid of officers from the system, what would be the justification for the commission to sit? What has informed it to get rid of thirty-five senior officers from the system, for example? These are matters that are going to cause problems for the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security in terms of litigations. He needs to understand the procedures. What has informed the decision? Is it disciplinary action he is taking? How are the files for these officers and at what point did he decide that he was getting rid of these officers who are still energetic and still have years to serve? Litigations may be caused by failure to understand the operations of the service. So, Acting Leader of Government Business in the House, these are key issues that you should pay attention to.

Madam Chairperson, there is nothing wrong in bringing people from retirement if they are still capable, but what has informed the commission to bring back these people in the system? Mind you, we have to be conscious that as you are bringing these people back from their retirement, there are officers who are eager to progress. So, you may be placing a caveat on the prospects of these officers who are serving by bringing those who retired. So, it is a delicate balancing act that you need to do to ensure that you do not demotivate those who have been serving and who have been committed.

Madam Chairperson, my colleague, the hon. Member for Kabwata, talked about post cards. It is not post cards, it is post identities (IDs). Those post IDs are what determine the position. Even the Ministry of Finance and National Planning uses those IDs to pay an officer. So, his complaint was: How do people get promoted without post IDs? That is why we need to have a functional system that should create order. Yes, indeed, there was a desire to have an expanded command structure which was different from the old one where we used to have one inspector general and one deputy. Now, we have commissioners who are heading the divisions and we need to go down to the bottom.

Madam Chairperson, if we do not have a functional system, we will have a challenge because when officers are progressing, the responsibilities are also changing. So, you may be promoting an individual without proper assessment and this individual is not capable to discharge the duties you assign to him. It is very possible. You need to assess them holistically. How is this officer going to perform as a chief inspector? What are the responsibilities? What courses has he attained in order for him to be at this position?

Madam Chairperson, these are critical matters and that is why we need to have men and women at the commission who are able to understand all these dynamics. Policing is changing and evolving. The maintenance of peace and security for the State calls for a high premium.We must make sure that we are holistic in everything that we do. So, the motivation of officers must be holistically looked at. So, the responsibility of the commission is not minor, it is a huge one because you can have officers who probably have no capacity to discharge their functions depending on how you placed them.

Madam Chairperson, I thought I should share these thoughts with the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Lufuma: Madam Chairperson, I thank you most sincerely for the opportunity to wind up the debate. Given the time, I must say I will try and be as quick as possible.

Madam Chairperson, I will start with Hon. Kampyongo’s contributions. They are very, very important and I think it is incumbent upon the commission to act. The commission is looking into having a functional system to deal with promotions, dismissals, transfers, demotions and many other activities that are entrusted to it. I cannot agree with him more. That will be taken into consideration by this commission and I assure him that with regards to the personnel, the commission is up to the job.

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Member for Kabwata raised a few items and I would like to quickly go through them. The first one is that the commission is not adequately funded. We recognise that and I think the overall Budget has increased in the 2023 Budget Estimates.

Madam Chairperson, the Commission Secretary is appointed by the Civil Service and not in the manner he described it. In terms of salaries and others, we now have equalisation of salaries. We now have the Emolument Commission and we are sure it should be able to do a good job in that regard. I think equal work for equal job will be applied.

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Member for Kabwata also talked about the office accommodation. The Secretary to the Cabinet is making concerted efforts to try and find some adequate office space for the commission.

Madam Chairperson, I think we have covered the issue of transport adequately in the Budget. This year, we got four 4x4 wheel drive vehicles and next year, we are getting five of them. So, at latest, year by year, we will be improving in terms of transport in order to be touching all the rural areas of this country.

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Member for Katombola talked about the levels of discipline and promotions. We agree because this is one of the major functions of the commission in terms of discipline, and I think it is quite outlined there. In conjunction with the Police Service itself, we shall be able to contain this and ensure that our police service is totally disciplined.

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Member for Lundazi talked about accommodation. I must remind her that this is not one of the functions of the commission per se. However, the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security is looking into this issue. There might be phase two in terms of construction of houses and office space. She also talked about recruitment and reuniting of families. As we know, reuniting families is the Government’s policy. So, the Secretary to the Cabinet is working on this. The task force, if I can call it that way, is well under way and it should be able to ensure that there is a reunion of spouses.

Madam Speaker, about recruitment, the commission does not recruit. What recruits is the Zambia Police Service.  The Zambia Police Service will recruit and once these officers are recruited, in terms of human resource management, they will be taken care of by the Police Service Commission. So, those are the few functions and remarks that I would like to make.

 I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Vote 10 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 36 – (Zambia Correctional Service Commission – K 9,397,698)

The Minister of Defence and Acting Leader of Government Business (Mr Lufuma): Madam Chairperson, I thank you very much for the opportunity to once again, present the 2023 Budget Estimates policy statement for the Zambia Correctional Service Commission.

Mandate

Madam Chairperson, the Zambia Correctional Service Commission is a constitutional and statutory body mandated to provide human resource functions to the Zambia Correctional Service under the Constitution Amendment Act No. 2 of 2016, established under Article 225 and the Service Commissions Act No. 10 of 2016. The commission is responsible for ensuring that appointments, confirmations, promotions, transfers, regradings, attachments, secondments, discipline and separation of personnel in the Zambia Correctional Service are done in accordance with the prescribed guidelines and procedures.

Functions

Madam Chairperson, the Zambia Correctional Service Commission is charged with the responsibility of human resource management in the Zambia Correctional Service as provided for in the Constitution Amendment Act No. 2 of 2016, and the Service Commissions Act No. 10 of 2016.

The commission’s budget for 2023 is premised on strategic development area number four of the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP) which focuses on ensuring that there is an improved policy and governance environment.

Overview of the 2022 Budget Performance

Madam Chairperson, the commission was allocated a total of K5,401,913. Of this, K2,140,899 was for personal emoluments and K3,261,014 was meant for goods and services, which was funded to execute highlighted programmes below as guided by its functions:

Governance and Standards

1. sensitised correctional service officers on human resource reforms in three provinces, namely, Copperbelt, the Western and the Eastern provinces;
2. initiated the development of the 2022 to 2026 strategic plan, service charter and balanced score card for the commission;
3. sensitised correctional service officers on processes and procedures on handling complaints and appeals in the correctional service;
4. procured five 4 x 4 motor vehicles in order to enhance monitoring and evaluation of delegated functions; and
5. inducted newly appointed commissioners on the operations of Zambia Correctional Service Commission.

Zambia Correctional Service Human Resource Management

1. confirmed a total of 880 officers in the correctional service;
2. retired forty-nine officers;
3. transferred forty officers;
4. processed twenty-four acting appointments;
5. promoted nine officers; and
6. reinstated four officers.

2023 Budget Estimates

Madam Chairperson, the commission’s functions will be performed through three key programmes as follows:

1. Governance and Standards – This is responsible for the critical role of enhancing monitoring and evaluation to ensure compliance to set standards, guidelines and regulations. It is also meant to sensitise correctional service officers on human resource reforms, implement human resource policies, procedures and guidelines. Further, the programme is for conducting sensitisation on the revised terms and conditions of service. The programme estimate is at K2,624,670 only. The sub-programme is standards, guidelines and regulations.
2. Zambia Correctional Service Human Resource Management – This is responsible for implementing human resource management reforms and establishment of human resource management committees. This programme will cater for capacity building in established human resource management committees for effective and efficient processing of delegated human resource management functions. The programme estimate is at K4,690,608. The sub-programme is Zambia Correctional Human Resource and Management.
3. Management and Support Service – This is meant to undertake timely and effective provision of management and administration of support services to ensure smooth operations of the commission. The programme estimate is at K2,082,420 only. The sub-programmes are as follows:

1. Executive Office Management;
2. Human Resource Management and Administration;
3. Procurement Management; and
4. Planning, Policy and Co-ordination.

Madam Chairperson, in summary, the Zambia Correctional Service Commission’s operational Budget Estimates for 2023 amount to K9,397,698 only, on which the above mentioned programmes will be undertaken.

Madam Chairperson, in conclusion, the budget estimates and the proposed programmes will greatly contribute to the attainment of a good governance environment. I, therefore, urge this august House to approve the 2023 estimates for the commission as presented.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: There are too many meetings –

Mr Muchima: Ba PF!

Hon. PF Members: Seriously?

The Chairperson: It is the Independents actually.

Mr Mwene (Mangango): Madam Chairperson, thank you very much for according the good people of Mangango an opportunity to have a say on the Zambia Correctional Service Commission, but I will be failing in my duties if I do not appreciate, congratulate and applaud the mighty United Party for National Development (UPND) ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwene: ... for the victory that has never happened in this country before. With this kind of trend and trajectory that we are moving on, if I were on your left, I would just sit and even stop participating in any by-election. This is because the outcome is already known that the people of Zambia have changed and have gone red.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mwene, you have made your congratulatory messages. Can you please now go straight into the debate without wasting much of your time.

Mr Mwene, can you please continue.

Mr Mwene: Madam Chairperson, it just feels nice when you have performed well.

Madam Chairperson, I wish to contribute to the discussion on the Zambia Correctional Service Commission because I happen to be one of the parliamentarians who host this particular commission. In Mangango, I have a correctional service at Nyango. That service is in a particular infrastructure that was left by the South West Africa People’s Organisation (SWAPO). With the increase in next year’s Budget, I strongly support the Budget for the Zambia Correctional Service because I now expect that starting from 2023, we will see an increase in beautiful infrastructure for our officers at Nyango Correctional Service, like any other service countrywide.

Madam Chairperson –

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mwene, we are looking at the commission.

Mr Mwene: Yes, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: Thank you.

Mr Mwene: Madam Chairperson, I wish to contribute to the debate on this commission and say that the increase in the amount for this institution is going to actually improve the services that the commission is offering to the country. An increase in this Budget will motivate our commission. It will motivate the employees in this commission through various ways, such as wages and salaries and anything else that the commission requires.

Madam Chairperson, this will take us a long way. When the employees of this commission are motivated, even the output will be more and we are going to yield a very perfect commission. Without motivating our employees or this commission in general, we may not be able to achieve the objectives of the commission. So, for them to put in more effort to achieve each and every objective of the commission, they need to be motivated and hence, the increase in the 2023 Budget. That is one of the reasons why I support this Budget for 2023 towards this commission.

Madam Chairperson, apart from that, infrastructure for the commission is also something that is very important. By infrastructure, we mean a lot. We mean things like buildings, technological improvement in the commission and all other aspects that go along with infrastructure.

Madam Chairperson, when the commission is well-equipped in terms of infrastructure, it will perform even much better. There will be nothing that the commission will be failing to perform because of up to date infrastructure in the commission.

Mr J. E. Banda: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Mwene: Madam Chairperson, with these few remarks, I completely support the increase for the commission’s Budget for 2023.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: There is a point of order. Mr Banda, what is your point of order?

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Chairperson, my point of order is on the hon. Member who is just from debating. Was the hon. Member in order, when he was debating,to wave his hands like hewas conducting a choir?

Laughter

Mr J. E. Banda:I seek your guidance, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: Mr Banda, the hon. Member who was on the floor, Mr Mwene, was in order because we express ourselves differently. Others put their hands in the pocket and so on and so forth. So, he was in order.

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Chairperson, as I contribute to the debate on the Zambia Correctional Service Commission, permit me to appreciate the good people of Lumezi for electing me as their Member of Parliament and the Constitutional Court reconfirmed that decision.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Chairperson, permit me to also mention that, indeed, I defeated the current Ruling Party’s candidate by 8,000 votes and it will need to work a lot more to challenge the decision of the good people of Lumezi.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Chairperson, in contributing to the debate on this Vote, permit me to quote Rooney King who stated as follows:

“I realise I will always be the poster child for police brutality, but I can try to use that as a positive force for healing and restraint.”

Madam Chairperson, just to sum it up, the Votes today, of the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security and the Zambia Police Service Commission, are interrelated. I feel that as we support the allocation to this Vote, the hon. Minister whom I hold in high esteem needs to put his foot down. Many at times, he is the one of the few most accommodating hon. Ministers in his office, but he has been let down by most people whom he superintends.

Madam Chairperson, I have this letter here which was addressed to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security on 26^th September, 2022. We like it or not, it is a fact that even the Zambia Police Service Commission is under the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security. I see no reason people should be jittery as to why we should not come out openly.

Madam Chairperson, let it gladden –

The Chairperson: Order, Mr Zulu!

Just a guide, we know that the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security has different departments and these departments have been given Votes. So, you are required, at this point in time, to debate on issues that are related to the Zambia Correctional Service Commission. If you have other issues relating, for example, to the police, the Immigration Department or the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC), you can bring them up under those specific Votes. At the moment, we are looking at Vote 36,which is specifically on the Zambia Correctional Service Commission. So, with that guide, you can continue.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Chairperson, in working towards the goals of the department, the top Executive plays a primary role in forming the organisational climate change.

Madam Chairperson, I am not diverting my thoughts or anyone’s thoughts from the correctional service to any other department. It is a pity that there is a mind that has been set that whenever the Member for Lumezi is debating, a cartel should be risen.

Laughter

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Chairperson, I am here elected by the people of Lumezi –

The Chairperson: No, Mr Zulu.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Chairperson, we shall not continue on this –

Interruptions

Mr Nkandu: What is so special with Lumezi?

The Chairperson: Please, resume your seat.

I do not think there is anything I said that was against you. I just guided on how the debate should go because we have many Votes here. So, we cannot touch other Votes when we are looking at one specific Vote, and there is nothing wrong in mentioning that. For your information, we are not even targeting the hon. Member for Lumezi here. I am looking at all the hon. Members in this House who are debating the National Budget for next year. There is no ill feeling about a particular Member of Parliament in this House.

So, with guide, just know that you are treated just like any other Member of Parliament in this House. You may continue.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Chairperson, I am remaining with four minutes so I saw no reason to be curtailed, as a matter of fact.

Mr Nkandu: What is wrong with this boy?

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Chairperson, as I support – Anyway, you can have your privilege now, I will have my day soon as well.

Interruptions

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Chairperson, I will –

There is no way, Madam Chairperson, –you heard the hon. Member on your right say this boy and you took no action. I respond, I am penalised. Can we be firm on how we make decisions.

The Chairperson: Hon. Member –

Mr Munir Zulu: No, Hon. Nkandu there –

The Chairperson: No, can you resume your seat, hon. Member.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: We are not …

Mr Munir Zulu: Nkandu, nalakuponona!

The Chairperson:…here to quarrel.

Mr Munir Zulu:But he is the one who said it.

The Chairperson: Can you resume your seat.

Interruptions

Mr Munir Zulu resumed his seat.

The Chairperson: Hon. Member, of course, I am listening to what everybody is saying in this House, but my focus was on you. I might have missed what somebody mentioned.

Mr Munir Zulu: All the time they insult me and nothing is done.

The Chairperson: You have the right to complain or even raise a point of order.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: How do I raise a point of orderwhen I am the one debating?

The Chairperson: No, you can.

Hon. Members, I think we are going of side the debate. I will ask another hon. Member to take it up.

Mr Mpundu, you can debate.

Interruptions

Mr C. Mpundu (Chembe): Madam Chairperson, thank you very much though the temperaments have changed in the House, but I will quickly zero in on three things.

Madam Chairperson, the Zambia Correctional Service Commission plays a critical role in the performance of the duties of the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security in general. In that vein, I will zero in on only three things.

Madam Chairperson, firstly, the Zambia Correctional Service Commission needs to start encouraging the correctional facilities to focus more on their skills training centres, especially that being correctional facilities, a right thing is supposed to come out from a wrong thing, and that is why it is called a correctional facility. The commission needs to be encouraging those institutes that it supervises to look into skills centres if the correctional aspect is to be enhanced.

Madam Chairperson, secondly, the health facilities within the correctional facilities are so bad such that this also affects the welfare of the officers in those facilities especially that there is an interaction between the inmates and the officers. There are also –

Mr Mufalali: On a point of order, Madam.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mufalali: Madam Chairperson, my point of order is based on Article 65 of the Standing Orders, regarding relevance.

Madam, the issue at hand is the commission and not the correctional services. Is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to divert and take us to correctional facilities instead of talking about the commission itself? The issue at hand is the commission. There is a difference between the commission and the correctional services.

The Chairperson: Mr Mpundu, please be guided, we are looking at the Zambia Correctional Service Commission. As I had indicated earlier on, could we be focused on the commission instead of looking at all the correctional facilities and whatever they are doing. Let us be focused on the Zambia Correctional Service Commission. 

Mr C. Mpundu: Madam Chairperson, it is not that I am diverting, but well guided.

Madam, the Correction Service Commission also looks at the welfare of the officers. That is what I meant. I did not mean to divert to services.

Madam, in that vein, let me say that apart from that, this is a commission, which has just been actualised. Being actualised recently, there is a lot of backlog that it has in terms of promotions of officers because it was not operational, it has just started operating. So, the commission needs to look at that area.

Madam Chairperson, secondly, I urge that as officers interact with inmates, let that interaction also be promoted to the community because many are the times that officers under this commission have–

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Madam.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised. 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Chairperson, permit me to take you to Standing Order 66, on unparliamentary language. This is directed at the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts. He has referred to me as ‘this small boy’. I have been called a rat on the Floor of this House before. I think I need your serious ruling. I will be very sincere with you and others. This is the last point of order I am raising on people that are going to demean me in this House. I will instead walk to anyone that will do so in the near future ...

Interruptions

Mr Munir Zulu: ... because it is getting out of hand. There is no way. People are being protected to demean some of us that even won with more votes than they did.

I seek your serious ruling.

The Chairperson: Mr Zulu, can you please finish your point of order.

Mr Munir Zulu:  I seek your serious ruling, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: Thank you, Mr Zulu. For the first part of your point of order, as I had indicated, I missed what the hon. Minister said. Because of that, I am going to reserve my ruling so that I investigate the matter further.

However, let me guide you. There is no need to warn your fellow Members of Parliament.

Laughter

The Chairperson: We are supposed to follow the Standing Orders that we set for ourselves. You should not warn your fellow Members of Parliament. Just act or do what the Standing Orders are guiding you to do. If you are saddened by something, you can raise a point of order or write a complaint to the Speaker’s office and your issue will be attended to. You are all the same.

We can continue with the debate. Mr Mpundu, continue.   

Mr Mpundu: Madam Chairperson, I was saying that this is a new commission, which has a lot of backlog of promotions, and looks after the welfare of officers. So, it is just prudent that the commission works extra hard. In the same vein, they must be mobile. They should not confine themselves to urban areas. They need to go out there and check on the officers. Relying on information that is coming from superior officers will not help the commission. It is important that they go on the ground and make sure they interact with officers.

With that said, Madam Chairperson, I support the budget. We need to support the budget line more so that the commissioners work prudently.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson. 

Mr Amutike (Mongu Central): Madam Chairperson, before I go any further, let me declare interest.  I sit on the Committee on Cabinet Affairs. Earlier this year, we took a study tour to look at the operations of the Zambia Correctional Service Commission. I think what we discovered is that there was a lot of work that the Government needed to put in order for the commission to operate at an optimal level. Last time I checked, when we interviewed them, one of the things that this commission struggles with is not having proper offices. They had rented space at the old Bank of Zambia (BOZ) building.

Madam, we took a tour to the Copperbelt Province, and the Eastern Province where we were looking at the operations of the Zambia Correctional Service Commission vis-à-vis the welfare of the Zambia Correctional Service officers. It was clearly spelt to us that the commission is very much just centralised here in Lusaka. Many officers long for the commission to visit them in many of their correctional facilities but because of the inadequate budget, they are unable to fulfil the legal constitutional mandate that they have as a commission. There are many challenges that the officers face because this is what the commission is tasked to do, to ensure that officers work in an environment that is professional and where they feel adequately protected.

Madam, issues about uniforms came out very prominent. We learnt that some officers lack proper uniforms and guns. These people deal with some of the most dangerous criminals in the country. However, we were informed that sometimes the commission is not able to give them proper ammunition so that people can be protected.

Madam Chairperson, many things came out, among them, inadequate office space for the commission and remuneration issues. The commission should look into these issues. It is part of its mandate to look at the welfare of the Zambia Correctional Service officers.

Madam, I brought this up to make the hon. Minister aware of the challenges that officers belonging to the Zambia Correctional Service face which must be attended to. The commission needs to look into these issues. With these few remarks, I support the Vote.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Lufuma: Madam Chairperson, this will be the shortest winding up of business because the debate was only by three hon. Members of Parliament. I would like to thank the three hon. Members of Parliament who debated and supported this particular Vote.

Madam, allow me to emphasise the commission’s mandate because we are at sea, it seems, as we debate. People are talking about ammunition, munitions, guns, facilities and uniforms. I think the mandate of this commission slightly being misplaced. So, please allow me to clarify before my time ends.

Madam Chairperson, the mandate of the Zambia Correctional Service is as follows:

“The commission is responsible for ensuring that appointments, confirmations, promotions, transfers, regrading, attachments, secondments, discipline and separation of personnel in the Zambia Correctional Service are done in accordance with prescribed guidelines and procedures.”

Madam, if you may, the areas which hon. Members of Parliament touched on are outside the context. I would encourage them to raise some of these issues under the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security. Otherwise, please, allow me to thank the hon. Members who debated and thank all hon Members of Parliament for their support towards this Vote.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Vote 36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Madam Chairperson: Hon. Members, can we please be attentive to the policy statement because it will give you direction for your debate rather than just debating anyhow. Can we be attentive.

VOTE 15 – (Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security– K425,056,151)

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Chairperson, let me thank you for according me an opportunity to present before this august House a policy statement on the 2023 Budget Estimates and Expenditure for the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Madam, the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security is mandated to provide and maintain internal security in order to promote sustainable socio-economic development for the people of Zambia. The mandate of the ministry is discharged through various departments and specialised agencies, namely the Zambia Police Service, the Zambia Correctional Service, the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC), the Department of Immigration, the Department of National Registration, Passport and Citizenship, the National Archives of Zambia, the Office of the Commissioner for Refugees, the Registrar of Societies, the National Forensic Science Authority, the Office of the State Pathologist, the National Anti-Terrorism Centre, the Police Public Complaints Commission, the Human Resource and Administration Finance Department and the Home Affairs Research, Planning and Information Department.

Madam Chairperson, to effectively undertake the portfolio functions, the ministry has five expenditure Votes, namely:

1. Vote 11, the Zambia Police Service;
2. Vote 15, the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security;
3. Vote 16, the Drug Enforcement Commission;
4. Vote 23, the National Immigration Service; and
5. Vote 30, the Zambia Correctional Service.

Madam Chairperson, in this regard, I will be presenting ministerial budget policy statements for each Vote separately.

Madam Chairperson, on the past budget performance of Vote 15, I would like to submit that the overall performance of the ministry in 2021 and the first half of 2022 was generally satisfactory despite the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic.

Madam, to enhance security of the current paper-based national registration cards (NRCs), the ministry is implementing the Integrated National Registration Information System (INRIS). The operationalisation of INRIS will enable the issuance of biometric NRCs, birth and death certificates and the integration of other identity information systems.

Madam Chairperson, during the period under review, the ministry finalised the installation of hardware and software infrastructure and started using the procured 150 enrolment kits for national identity enrolment and birth and death registration. The ministry is steadily making progress in this regard and so far, more than 40,000 eligible persons have been enrolled in INRIS in readiness for the biometric enabled NRCs and more than 80,000 birth certificates issued during the system.

Madam Chairperson, the House may also wish to note that the Ministry through the office of the Commission for Refugees has been providing protection, assistance and security to asylum seekers, refugees and former refugees. As at 31^st December, 2021, the country hosted 104,416 persons of concern.

Madam Chairperson, on infrastructure development, the following projects were completed:

1. the construction of two five-story office blocks was partially completed in July, 2021 and handed over to the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security. The buildings were fully handed over to the ministry in December, 2021;
2. construction of 2,350 housing units for the security wings under Phase I was completed in January, 2020 across the country. Furthermore, the Government is also constructing office accommodation, police stations and more housing units in newly created districts;
3. construction of 1,000 capacity correctional facility in Mwembezhi under public-private-partnership (PPP) was completed;
4. construction of Mokambo Police Station and Border Post; and
5. construction of an office block at the Office of the Commissioner for refugees.

However, the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security has a deficit of 12,000 housing units for its security wings. A huge deficit still remains, thus the need for better and more housing units to be built.

Madam Chairperson, the ministry reviewed and developed some pieces of legislation and policies, such as the National Migration Policy, the National Civil Registration and Vital Statistics Policy, the Anti-Human Trafficking Policy, the Refugee Policy, the Anti-Human Trafficking Act No. 11 of 2008, and the review of the Public Order Act Chapter 113 of the Laws of Zambia.

Challenges Faced

Madam Chairperson, in spite of the above achievements, the ministry experienced some challenges, which among others, include the following:

1. inadequate transport for operational and administrative purposes;
2. inadequate office space in provinces and districts;
3. law staffing levels and incomplete restructuring. The low staffing levels compounded by the incomplete restructuring exercise of the ministry posed a serious challenge in the execution of the ministry programmes and activities; and
4. inadequate information technology infrastructure at provincial and district levels.

2023 Policy Focus

Madam Chairperson, the priority of the 2023 Budget for the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security is to ensure that crime prevention and detection are enhanced. The ministry will, therefore, continue to strengthen programmes to fight crimes in order to maintain law and order. The ministry will focus on the following:

1. continue to enforce law and order to promote sustainable socio-economic development;
2. promote the use of electronic platforms for collection of non-tax revenue; and
3. completion of ongoing infrastructure projects and prioritise dismantling of arears for goods and services.

Madam Chairperson, the 2023 indicative expenditure allocation for the ministry, Head 15, is K425,056,151, of which K102,890,908 is for personal emoluments and K322,165,243 has been allocated for non-personal emoluments, compared to the 2022 ceiling of K269,561,508, of which K119,984,020 was personal emoluments and K149,577,488 was for non-personnel emoluments. The increase is mainly to facilitate the implementation of the integrated national integration registration information system.

Madam Chairperson, the summary of the proposed allocation for programmes in the 2023 Budget is broken down as follows:

1. Legal Identity, Civil Registration and Citizenship Services – K275,526,906
2. National Archives Services – K12,705,026
3. Societies Regulations and Standards – K4,549,079
4. Internal Security Support Services – K36,488,813
5. Management and Support Services – K95,786,327

Finally, Madam Chairperson, let me assure this august House that the proposed allocations although not adequate, will help to mitigate the challenges the ministry is facing. I,therefore, seek your favourable consideration for Head 15.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Chairperson, as I stand to support my brother, Hon. Jack Mwiimbu’s Budget proposal for 2023, I need to indicate that he has a mammoth task.

Madam Chairperson, internal security is the catalyst for foreign and domestic investment. Without guaranteed security, there is no investment that will be attracted to the Republic of Zambia or any other region. Therefore, as Cabinet sits, I hope it will give him a listening ear more especially on the proposed construction of the line to pump finished petroleum products from Tanzania to Ndola. That is a great risk. We need to understand why our forefathers like Dr Kenneth Kaunda chose to be bringing in comingled fuel.It is not that they had no interest, but they looked at security.

Madam Chairperson, in Nigeria, there is a region called Niger Delta. There is continuous resistance in that place because of the level of poverty which is very high in the country. I cannot imagine the people of Muchinga seeing a finished petroleum product passing through their area to Ndola without causing problems. We may experience another Boko Haram in Zambia.

Madam Chairperson, another point the hon. Minister needs to take note of is the dealing of precious minerals like gold. If these precious minerals are not handled well, they cause conflict. That is why they are commonly referred to as conflict minerals. As trade and commerce take shape, they must not be done at the expense of security. We must secure our nation. When people have enough resources, the only thing they will begin striving for is power, and that is a source of instability in any country in the world. We must learn from Tanzania, Zimbabwe, and South Africa on how they have managed to control the precious minerals such as gold and diamond. Countries that have failed to manage these minerals have turmoil today.

Madam Chairperson, Zambia has enough lessons to learn. So, we need to manage our ambitions to commercialise. We should not do that at the expense of security. Yes, commerce is very important because we need to create employment for our people and increase the gross domestic product (GDP) of our nation. We need to build enough capital base for this country, but that must not be done at the expense of security and stability.

Madam Chairperson, I was very happy when the hon. Minister was appointed because I am a firm believer that lawyers are defenders of human rights. The hon. Minister said that the ministry is going to embark on internal security to make sure that the rights of the people are protected and guaranteed. I know we shall debate the Zambia Police Service, but this falls under his jurisdiction. Today, if a Zambian ran to a police station to report a matter, and cadres follow him or her to that police station, the police officer would run away from the station. So, where will Zambians report matters to then?

Interruptions

Mr Chitotela: If you have not experienced it, yes you can murmur. This is a case that happened in Mwense and I believe the hon. Minister is aware about it. The security of the nation must be guaranteed. I am speaking with passion because I remember Jack Mwiimbu, who was Leader of the Opposition and his passion for the respect and protection of fundamental human rights. The role that he has is to protect property and preserve life. That is a solemn responsibility that the Zambian people have invested in him.

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister must bear in mind that he is in the Executive and he carries a heavy load. Wherever there has been bloodshed in Africa and across the globe, it is the leadership that has been indicted for crimes that were committed by subordinates. It is the leadership that appears before the court in The Hague. So, his responsibility to protect property and preserve human life is heavy. The responsibility is heavy for those who are carrying Executive functions. So, our friends in the police, as much as they may be excited, they may not appear before the court in The Hague. It is the leadership that will appear. So, we must –

Interruptions

Mr Chitotela: Hon. Members may not understand because they have not been in the Executive, but I know that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security knows the responsibilities and the duty that he has. He must protect every Zambian.

Madam Chairperson, if what is happening today, happened in the past, then I never experienced. Today, I can tell the hon. Minster that it is a bad thing. The hon. Minister is a lawyer and lawyers are defenders of human rights. Lawyers are known worldwide as people who stand for the downtrodden, the people who have no one to defend them. That is why at times, lawyers even offer pro bono cases to defend the oppressed.

Madam Chairperson, as I conclude, I want emphasise that the commercial interest should not overrun the interest of security. I know we are in a hurry to develop and attract foreign investments, but one issue I want the hon. Member to take keen interest is the transformation of Tanzania Zambia Mafuta (TAZAMA) pipeline. That is a risk this nation would want to undertake.

Madam Chairperson, one of the cases I want the hon. Minister to take keen interest in, is the matter of opening up gold panning to every jim and jack. Hon. Minister, if you do that, you may create warlords in Zambia. Everywhere, gold and diamonds are known as conflict minerals. So, the hon. Minister’s voice in Cabinet must be to appeal and supersede any commercial interest. If there is no peace, security and tranquillity in the country, the security of this nation will not be guaranteed and there will be no direct foreign investment. No foreign investor will be interested in coming to invest in Zambia. We have enough lessons that we have learnt. What our friends in the delta region of Nigeria are going through is not deliberate. It is because the pipe that passes through there runs the finished product. So, people who are wallowing in poverty end up helping themselves.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

Mr Sialubalo (Sinazongwe): Madam Chairperson, thank you so much for the opportunity given to me to say one or two words on the Budget for the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security, which I dearly support.

Madam Chairperson, I will just pick on one department, which is the Department of National Registration. This department is so vital because it defines who we are. Though in the recent past, about two years ago, it was abused to an extent were even the under age where getting National Registration Cards (NRCs). I believe that the hon. Minister has a mammoth task to reverse the situation that was happening, were NRCs were being abused basically because of trying to win an election. So, the hon. Minister needs to see to it that his officers go around the country to reverse the situation.

Madam Chairperson, the officers under this department lack transport for them to move. For instance, in Sinazongwe Constituency, there is no vehicle at the Department of National Registration, Passport and Citizenship for them to carry out mobile registration. I know that even the funding aspect has been a source of concern in the recent past. I believe that now under the able leadership of the hon. Minister, this will improve. Our people were denied access to get this very important document for them to be defined as Zambians. This was purely because it was perceived to be a stronghold for the then Opposition political party, the United Party for National Development (UPND).

Madam Chairperson, my people in Sinazongwe need to get NRCs. Therefore, the people at the Department of National Registration, Passport and Citizenship need proper funding so that it helps them to do mobile registration. These rural constituencies are quite vast. I know of Lufwanyama, Kabompo and Lavushimanda to be quite vast areas. The resources that we are going to approve should be allocated to these areas. The rural constituencies need to get a good share so that at least, these documents are given to Zambians themselves.

Madam Chairperson, coming to the Zambia Police Service, we are so happy that even as the ministry thinks of recruitment, it is thinking of balancing the entire country, unlike where we are coming from, where it was just recruiting people from one perceived region. I give the hon. Minister kudos for trying to reverse the wrongs that were done. The best the hon. Minister can do is to reverse what happened so that at least, it helps unite the country because Zambians will know that for the past ten years, the people of Sinazongwe never got any form of employment. So, with these allocations that we are getting, the promotions –

Mr Mukosa: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): Madam Chairperson, I rise on point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65, which guides us that whatever we debate here has to be factual and that it is something that we should support with evidence as well as relevance.

Madam Chairperson, my beloved colleague who is debating on the Floor, who is also my elder brother, has made comments that suggests that in the past, the Government that was there was only looking at one region.

Hon. Government Members: Correct!

Mr Mukosa: Madam Chairperson, that is something that is not factual because if we are to take an example of the same Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security, you will see that in Central Province, there are some houses for the police that were built. If you go to Mazabuka in the Southern Province, you will find houses for the police that were built by the previous Government during the same period.

Madam Chairperson, is the hon. Member who is debating on the Floor in order to mislead this august House and the listeners that the previous Government was only looking at one region?

Interruptions

Mr Mukosa: Madam Chairperson, that information was misleading. Is the hon. Member in order for making such misleading statements?

I seek your serous ruling, Madam Speaker.

The Chairperson: Hon. Members, please, can we be focused and talk about things that have evidence. Hon. Member for Chinsali, with the example you have given that there were some housing units that were built in the Southern Province, Central Province, I do not know the other area that you mentioned, it shows that those houses were not built in one region. They were built in three deferent places. Unless, if the hon. Member for Sinazongwe was referring to something else not the housing units. However, if he was referring to something else, he is supposed to lay evidence on the Table. Hon. Member for Sinazongwe, you may continue, but please, be very factual in your debate.

Mr Sialubalo: Madam Chairperson, I do not remember mentioning housing units. When we talk of a region, Sinazongwe and Mazabuka are two different regions. So, I never said a province, but basically a region.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sialubalo: Madam Chairperson, when we talk of Sinazongwe, our people there never got an opportunity to be employed in the past ten years. There is no single police officer who can stand here in Zambia to say, “I come from Sinazongwe and I was employed.” There was nothing like that. So, I am here to speak for my people. I urge the hon. Minister not to repeat what was happening. If he does that, as the people of Sinazongwe, we will rise against him.

The Chairperson: So, in that case we are not talking about regions, but constituencies.

Mr Sialubalo: Madam Chairperson, yes. Basically, that is what I was trying to say. I would like to talk about promotions and accommodation. Apart from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), the hon. Minister should think of allocating funds to continue the housing projects.

Madam Chairperson, in Sinazongwe, the officers are still occupying houses that were built by the United National Independence Party (UNIP) Government. They have been neglected for quite a long time and they need decent accommodation as they work. That is part of good service to the officers. There is a need to allocate some vehicles to Sinazongwe. There are three departments that need to be considered for allocation of housing. Even a vehicle that is broken, we can have it repaired. As we all know, there are many Karavinas in Sinazongwe, who came from the Western Province.

Laughter

Mr Sialubalo: So, we can only find the Karavinas when we have transport.

Madam Chairperson, with those few words, I thank you, and I support the budget.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to add my voice to the discussion on this Vote.

Madam Chairperson, I stand to support the allocation of K425.1 million to this institution under the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security. I will narrow down on two issues as I contribute and the first one is on the infrastructure for the Zambia Police Service.

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security alluded to the shortage of 12,000 housing units for his ministry, which is a mammoth task. I stand here as a sad person because we also have this problem in my constituency and I remember I raised this issue sometime back. The officers at Roan Police Station live like they are not officers. These officers are contributing immensely to ensure that as we are sleeping, our property and lives are protected. The officers in Roan Township do not have a vehicle. They are the people who are actually protecting the investors in our constituency, who are the mining investors at the Luanshya Copper Mines.

Madam Chairperson, as the hon. Minister embarks on looking at the 12,000 shortfall of housing units, he should remember that in Roan Constituency, we also need to have a share of these housing units. We cannot have a situation in which the officer-in-charge, the Chief Investigations Officer (CIO) and other senior officers are living outside the camp. In case of forming up, it becomes a challenge.

Madam Chairperson, I also want to narrow down on equipment and assets. It is sad that in most police stations, the officers sit on outdated or broken-down furniture, which makes their job very difficult. We hope that as the hon. Minister looks at asset procurement, he will consider procuring furniture for the officers in various stations throughout the country. I appeal strongly that the same police station in Mpatamatu –

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Chibuye, I think you have now started debating the Vote for the Zambia Police Service. When we come to that Vote, I wonder what people will talk about. Can we, please, restrict ourselves to the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security. Leave the police issues aside because that Vote is coming very soon.

You can continue.

Mr J. Chibuye: Well guided, Madam Chairperson. The problem is that these issues are too close.

Madam Chairperson, in line with your guidance, I want to make mention here that I have noted something that has become a trend. Of course, we should not blame the officers who are so hardworking. However, each time you go to the police station to report a case, most of the time you are told to go and do photocopying. The officers tell you to go and do this, which I believe should be handled by the ministry.

Madam Chairperson –

Mr Mukosa: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: Order! A point of order is raised.

Mr Mukosa: Madam Chairperson, I rise, again, pursuant to Standing Order No. 65, which talks about the relevance of debate in this House. You are just from guiding that the Vote that the hon. Member who is on the Floor is debating is not what we are debating on the Floor right now. We are debating the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security and he is debating the Zambia Police Service. So, is the hon. Member in order to continue debating in a manner that is irrelevant to the debate on the Floor?

The Chairperson: I have already guided the hon. Member on the Floor. Can you, please, shift from where you are and go back to the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security, so that we make progress. If there is nothing to talk about, then you can wait for the Vote of the Zambia Police Service.

You can continue, Mr Chibuye.

Mr J. Chibuye: Madam Chairperson, well-guided. I will shift from where I am and I will stay to contribute later on the Zambia Police Service Commission.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Thank you so much for your understanding.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Chairperson, thank you so much for allowing me to make a few comments on Vote 15, which is under consideration.

Madam Chairperson, I would like to start by acknowledging the policy statement that the hon. Minister has delivered. In his policy statement, he highlighted a number of very important programmes under his ministry, and I will start with the Department of National Registration, Passport and Citizenship (DNRPC).

Madam Chairperson, under this department, the hon. Minister highlighted one very important programme, the Integrated National Registration Information System (INRIS), which will see the migration of the identity card regime of the citizens from the ordinary ones that they have had to the biometric ones. I think this work has progressed, but of concern is the number of enrolments that the ministry has done thus far. Forty thousand is not enough. I looked at the resources that have been allocated to this important programme, and the ministry does not seem to have so much resources.

Madam Chairperson, going forward, we would want to see the migration done in good time, so that we do not have a time where we could be using both the biometric and ordinary cards. This is should be rolled out to the provinces and eventually to the districts, so that the people of Shiwang’andu can quickly be put on the new roll, which is digital. So, my plea is that we continue seeking for more resources for this project. I know that there was support from other stakeholders which the ministry can still look at and see how it can maximise on that.

Madam Chairperson, away from that, the hon. Minister knows that we have a target to achieve, as stipulated by the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO), and this is the organisation which dictates the issue of travelling documents. The passports we are using now will become useless next year or beyond. So, the ministry needs to make sure that it channels resources to this programme of migrating our travel documents to digital, as required by the international community because these documents are non-negotiable. Once the benchmark is set, we have no choice as a country but to make sure that we meet those targets. Otherwise, people will be travelling, but will not be admitted in certain countries.

Madam Chairperson, I have seen that the ministry has a projected target of K33 million that has been set for this year as non-revenue resource for passports. I do not know whether this projection is based on the digital passports that we are going to migrate to or, indeed, the current passport regime.

Further, I would like to just make sure that you scale up the programme of birth registrations and issuance of birth certificates. Yes, the programme has been rolled out into the provinces but we can do much more.

Madam Chairperson, under the Zambia Department of Immigration, we have seen that the projected figure for non revenue has reduced from K8.2 million to K4 million. I think this is as a result of the waivers on visa fees. However, the issue of visas which is normally a reciprocal arrangement between member states should not be viewed for the revenue aspect only. It is also a security check. You have an opportunity for you to vet people that are coming from different countries into our country before they are admitted into the country because opening up might have its own ramifications and negative consequences. So, ensure that as you are forgoing the visa fees, you put in tight measures and continue investing in the immigration system that is already in place which you will need to configure to accommodate this new development.

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister needs to put some funds into the Registrar of Societies. The hon. Minister will remember that when he was on this side of the House, we had started a conversation of ensuring that we deal with the Registrar of Societies Act in order to accommodate the changes that have occurred in our democracy. The hon. Minister will recall that we could not proceed because we could not agree on a number of issues in coming up with a new Act that was going to change the way societies and political parties are registered and managed in this country. So, try and push a bit of resources to that department because this is one of the departments that is key but sometimes they may be forgotten.

Madam Chairperson, I was looking at the allocations for the National Archives of Zambia which is a strategic institution. It is a reservoir of history and statistics about this country; where this country is coming from and where it is going. This is a very strategic institution that you need to fund because sometimes people might not understand and appreciate the role this institution plays under the ministry.

Madam Chairperson, lastly but not the least, the hon. Minister talked about refugee management. Yes, Zambia has been a sanctuary of many who have been uprooted from their homes and ended up here as asylum seekers. Yes, we have programmes are going on that need counter funding. You may be getting funding from the United Nations (UN) systems but it is important that as a host country, we also fund some of the programmes including the local integration of the people who have been in this country for a long time and consider it their home. These are people that could have run away from different countries as refugees and have overstayed in our communities.

With these few remarks, Madam Chairperson, I support the Estimates for Vote 15.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Chairperson, thank you so much for giving the people of Mbabala an opportunity to contribute to debate on Vote 15, Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Madam Chairperson, I support this Vote considering the progress that has been made in the 2021 to 2022 activities that have been clearly outlined in the policy statement from the hon. Minister. We heard many wonderful successes and the professionalisation of the ministry since we are coming from a background of loss of focus. The ministry had degenerated into doing wrong things such as giving National Registration Cards (NRC’s) to children, which we saw done widely in the country.

When the machines came to Choma, they constantly broke down or they were not able to function.

Hon. Government Member: Under who?

Mr Munsanje: They could not even reach my constituency, Mbabala. They failed completely and kept on asking us to go to Choma Town. When we took people to Choma Town, we found that the machines were broken down. That kind of culture and work ethics or practice is what I call loss of focus and lack of professionalism. We are now glad that through the hon. Minister, Mr Jack Mwiimbu, we are doing an excellent job where we have seen professionalism back in the country.

Right now, the pilot project of issuing NRCs is on, and in Mbabala, we have already benefitted as the pilot project has reached part of our constituency. That is what we want to see. We want to see these services going to the people and not people hunting for them.

Therefore, Madam Speaker, as I speak on the Integrated National Registration Information System (INRIS) and legal identity and citizenship, we want to see these services made available to citizens and not to be fought for by the citizens the way it was in the past. We want to see that from birth, one should be entered into the INRIS. The biometric system that we are talking about should be linked to health services through the Smart Zambia Institute programme so much that one is monitored from birth to registering his/her citizenship at sixteen years.

When one starts school, that information must be stored into an NRC and other services such as the Farmer Input Support programme (FISP) and other programmes that are offered in the country. Such information must all be linked from the time one is born. That way, we will be doing a good national biometric system that supports quality services for the country. That would enable us to even cut out the fraud and thefts that we, for example, get through Information and Communications Technology (ICT) where people ask for information to deposit money. So, such kind of things could be cut out because we would be able to trace every citizen very well and know all those who are stealing.

Madam Chairperson, the issue of passports is another issue I want to talk about. It must be supported so that it can reach the people much quicker than the current time it takes. However, I have been impressed so far, with the turnaround time. Of course, there was a shortage of booklets for passports, but the turnaround time has been dealt with and it is now five to fourteen days, which is good. We must continue to increase on that efficiency and do well.

 

Madam Chairperson, I also want to speak on the issue of housing deficit. I support the ministry’s programme to cut the housing deficit of 12,000, by increasing the number of houses. In Mbabala, through the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), we are already constructing two police stations in Mapanza chiefdom, at Shantambo, at Macha and one at St Marks. We want to see the ministry come to our aid by providing accommodation for the officers that will be deployed to these stations to curb crime. We have experienced a lot of crime, especially involving cattle. So, for us to curb that crime, we want to ensure that we have policing services including at Mbabala itself.

Madam Chairperson, with these remarks, I support Vote 15 and the increase in funding to the Department of Immigration, the National Archives of Zambia, the Registrar of Societies, internal security and the rest.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

(Consideration adjourned)

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HOUSE RESUMED

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

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The House adjourned at 1842 hours until 1430hours on Wednesday, 9^th November, 2022.

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