Friday, 4^th November, 2022

The House met at 0900 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_______

 

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, let me acquaint the House with some idea of the Business it will consider next week.

Madam, on Tuesday, 8^th November, 2022, the Business of the House will begin with Questions. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply to consider the following Heads: 

1. Head 11 – Zambia Police Service – Ministry of  Home Affairs and Internal Security;
2. Head 30 – Zambia Correctional Service; and
3. Head 23 – National Immigration Service.

Madam Speaker, on Wednesday, 9^th November, 2022, the Business of the House will start with Questions. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Then the House will resolve into Committee of Supply to consider the following Heads:

1. Head 12 – Office of the Public Protector;
2. Head 34 – Human Rights Commission; and
3.  Head 14 – Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development.

Madam, on Thursday, 10th November, 2022, the Business of the House will commence with Questions. Thereafter, the House will consider presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Then the House will resolve into Committee of Supply to consider the following Heads:

1. Head 15 – Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security; and
2.  Head 16 – Drug Enforcement Commission.

Madam Speaker, on Friday, 11^th November, 2022, the Business of the House will start with Her Honour the Vice President’s Question Time. Thereafter, the House will deal with Questions. The House will then consider presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. After that, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply to consider the following Heads:

1. Head 09 – Teaching Service Commission – Office of the President;
2. Head 27 – Public Service Management Division; and
3. Head 17 – Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

_______

MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

MR MUNG’ANDU, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR CHAMA SOUTH, ON HER HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT, MRS NALUMANGO, ON THE HUNGER SITUATION IN CHAMA SOUTH CONSTITUENCY

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): On matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I rise on this very important matter of urgent public importance because, I believe that if the Government does not take action immediately, although a bit late, the lives of our people on the ground may be lost.

Madam Speaker, I have, on several occasions on the Floor of this House, appealed to Her Honour the Vice-President on the hunger situation, in Mwila, in Chipala Ward in Chama South Constituency; Pondo; and areas like Mapamba, in Chief Chifunda, where the hunger situation is very critical. You have ruled at times, but surprisingly, as I speak to you, the Chama District Commissioner (DC), Mr Yobe Goma, yesterday transported two trucks, one truck carrying about 1,500 bags of maize and about 80 x 50 kg bags of salt.

Madam Speaker, another truck lifted maize from the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) Chikwa Satellite Depot, carrying about 1,000 x 50 kg bags of maize. These bags of maize have been stationed at polling stations in Lumezi Ward, promising people, where elections are taking place, that if they vote for the United Party for National Development (UPND), there is maize waiting for them.

Madam Speaker, now, here is my matter of urgent public importance.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Chama South, this is not the time to debate and ask about issues which are touching on elections. I know you have taken leave of absence, but in terms of asking questions, why do you not leave that for the Vice-President’s Question Time? Why would not ask the Vice-President there and then? Giving us information about what people are doing without producing evidence is sending wrong signals to the people of Zambia. I suggest that you leave that for the Vice-President’s Question Time.

MR KANG’OMBE, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR KAMFINSA, ON HER HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT, ON INDOOR RESIDUAL SPRAYING IN KITWE.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, I am grateful for the opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance. I note that the hon. Minister of Health is not present. So, I will direct the matter of urgent public importance to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, in the city of Kitwe, in the month of September, an exercise to undertake what is called Indoor Residual Spraying (IRS) was commenced. A group of young people were engaged to spray various public places and residential areas to ensure that malaria does not take its toll on our people. The exercise was supposed to run for a period of fifty-five days. Unfortunately, the exercise has faced challenges and our young people only worked for a period of twelve days. 

Madam Speaker, the net effect of this exercise not being undertaken for the prescribed fifty-five days is that we will not be able to effectively spray all the public places and homes that were targeted to prevent malaria from killing our people. This is a matter of urgent public importance because it borders on the health of the citizens of Zambia, not only in Kitwe, but also on securing the future of our people.

Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence as I direct this urgent matter to Her Honour the Vice-President on the discontinued exercise to spray and protect the lives of our people as well as other issues pertaining to the young men who were employed to undertake the spraying. They have only worked for twelve days, and yet the exercise was supposed to run for fifty-five days.

Madam Speaker, I want to indicate, as I conclude, that this exercise has been running since 2003. For over seventeen years, we have successfully run this programme. So, it is the first time that we are having an incident where an exercise only runs for twelve days.

I seek your indulgence, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: As the hon. Member for Kamfinsa may be aware, the hon. Minister of Health was supposed to come and deliver a statement. We deferred it to sometime next week. So, I would suggest that the hon. Member holds on to his question so that when the hon. Minister delivers a ministerial statement, he can be free to ask points of clarification. We cannot start pre-empting what the hon. Minister is going to say. In any event, she is not here. Her Honour the Vice-President is here, but I think it is better we leave it to the hon. Minister who is prepared to deliver that ministerial statement.

MS MABONGA, HON. MEMBER FOR MFUWE, ON MR SIKUMBA, THE HON. MINISTER OF TOURISM, ON THE KILLINGS OF SUSPECETED POACHERS BY WILDLIFE OFFICERS IN MFUWE

Ms Mabonga (Mfuwe): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Ms Mabonga: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity to raise this very important matter of urgent public importance.

Madam Speaker, I raise this matter of urgent public importance with a heavy heart because a number of lives in my constituency have been lost at the hands of wildlife officers. The latest two incidents have happened within a space of days. We buried one person who was killed three days ago and, yesterday, I received a report that another person has been killed. This has agitated members of the community and they want to retaliate. Can the hon. Minister assure the people in my constituency of their safety?

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Mfuwe, as I have earlier guided, when situations like that happen, you are encouraged or urged to get in touch with the relevant ministry to find out what is on the ground because now, you are not even stating under what circumstances those people died and whether they were in contravention of the law or not. We do not know the full details of the facts around the matter you are raising. However, the hon. Minister of Tourism is here, maybe, I can just ask him to indicate whether he is aware of the events that are happening in Mfuwe, which the hon. Member is raising.

The Minister of Tourism (Mr Sikumba): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Mfuwe for that concern.

Madam Speaker, I am aware of the incident that happened in that particular area, in Lavushimanda, in Bangweulu Area or thereabout. We have been in touch with the communities with regard to the incident that happened. Unfortunately, we buried that life and it was an issue of an exchange of gunfire between an officer and a suspected poacher. There is a police report which we have to that effect and we will definitely engage with the hon. Member for Mfuwe to discuss the way forward.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: This issue of human-animal conflict is going to haunt us for a long time. When people start engaging in illegal activities, it is incumbent on all of us as hon. Members of Parliament to encourage them to desist from engaging in such activities. Hon. Member for Mfuwe, please, do engage the hon. Minister and see means and ways of how this can be addressed.

MR KAMPYONGO, HON. MEMBER FOR SHIWANG’ANDU, ON MR MWIIMBU, THE HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, ON VIOLENCE BY UPND MEMBERS IN KAFUE

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: The matter of urgent public importance I am raising is directed at the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Madam Speaker: Proceed, hon. Member.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, the violence of the past is just as bad as the violence of today. We have had reports brought to this august House pertaining to the violence obtaining in areas where we have by elections currently going on. We have assurances from the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security that the matters are under control, but what is obtaining on the ground is different.

Madam Speaker, the day before yesterday, the hon. Member for Mkushi was reported to have been attacked and his vehicle shot at in Mkushi at a police station. Today, I have a tabloid, the Daily Nation, Volume 3470, where there is another report of some violence that took place yesterday in Kafue, and I will just quote the headline. It reads:

“UPND in blood battle. Two factions in the ruling party collide leaving several people

 badly injured.

‘Kafue was yesterday turned into a bloody battlefield as two factions of the governing party, the United Party for National Development clashed over positioning for the 2026 General Elections leaving several of their members with bloodied noses.’”

 

There have been gruesome pictures circulating on social media. We are concerned about the safety of our hon. Colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kafue.

Madam Speaker, like I have said, the violence of the past and of today is equally undesirable for this country.

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious guidance on this matter.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, there is an issue in Kafue. Do you have anything to say?

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, I wish to thank my hon. Colleague, Hon. Kampyongo, for raising this particular issue.

Madam Speaker, I am aware of the fracas that occurred in Kafue yesterday between members of the United Party for National Development (UPND), which resulted in a number of our people being injured. We have taken appropriate action and a number of those who were involved in that incident are in police cells, and will be appearing in court soon.

Madam Speaker, as I have always been indicting, the UPND and the New Dawn Administration will not be selective. Where there is evidence that our members have been involved in illegal activities, the long arm of the law will take root. Just as I have indicated that we have taken measures in Kafue, we shall take measures everywhere else where violence is occurring.

Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to inform the nation that we have embarked on an exercise that may inconvenience members of the public. We will be patrolling, day and night, in the townships and business centres to ensure that there is law and order. In the process, we will be checking and verifying what arms and other illegal paraphernalia people will be carrying to ensure that there is peace and stability.

Madam Speaker, we are all aware that there are junkies who have been terrorising people in townships. Reports have been received that there are illegal guns in so many areas. It is our responsibility to ensure that law and order prevails in the country for the sake of all of us. We have put in place measures and patrols will be taking place day and night. We will have security checkpoints to ensure that vehicles are checked. I know it will be an inconvenience to members of the public, but it is in their interest that we do so.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: There was an issue of a shoot-out in Mkushi.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I have not yet received a report pertaining to that. If there was, I encourage the victims to report the matter to the police.

I thank you, Madam.

Madam Speaker: What is comforting is that the police are doing something to ensure that –

Rev. Katuta: They are not doing anything.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, if you are not satisfied that the police are not doing anything, and you know the agitators –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chienge, please, can we have order.

If hon. Members are aware of the people who are agitating violence, it is better to report them to the police. I think where we came from, people were used to violence, but now things have to change and it begins with us, each one of us, to change our mindset and encourage a peaceful coexistence among all of us.

Violence is not going to take us anywhere. The sooner we realise that violence is not going to be tolerated, the better. Those people who are going to be involved in violence, like the hon. Minister said, will face the law on their own. Please, if you are aware of anybody who is perpetuating violence, report him/her to the police so that the law can visit him/her. We need to coexist in peace. Peaceful coexistence starts with each one of us. Let us encourage peaceful coexistence.

When people bring reports to the House about violence here and there, it is not appealing to the people of Zambia because now, it is like they are being told that there is violence here and there. It is not promoting peaceful coexistence. Let us try to promote peace than violence.

MR CHEWE, HON. MEMBER FOR LUBANSENSHI, ON MR KAPALA, HON. MINISTER OF ENERGY, ON ERRATIC ELECTRICITY SUPPLY IN LUBANSENSHI

Mr Chewe (Lubansenshi): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Chewe: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Lubansenshi Constituency this opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance in accordance with Standing Order No. 134. This matter is directed at the hon. Minister of Energy.

Madam Speaker, the people of Lubansenshi in Luwingu District, the good people of Kitwe, in particular Ndeke Village, Mulenga Township and other townships, are affected by the supply of electricity. Is the hon. Minister of Energy in order to remain quiet and not update the nation on what is going on concerning the supply of electricity? Is it because the water levels at Kariba Dam have gone down? What is happening?

Madam Speaker: I suggest you file in a question to specifically state what challenges the people of Lubansenshi are having in terms of electricity. We know that during the rainy season, speaking from experience, we have outages because of problems with ZESCO Limited, but to ask what is happening in Lubansenshi without giving specifics will not give a good direction to the hon. Minister to direct his mind to address your challenge. I suggest you put in a specific question to the hon. Minister of Energy so that he can address that issue sufficiently and state if ZESCO Limited is facing any challenges in that regard.

That concludes matters of urgent public importance. We move to the next item, which is The Vice-President’s Question Time.

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THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Madam Speaker: Please, as we ask questions, let us be specific to the question; no debating. Any hon. Member who is going to debate will be curtailed. Hon. Members should ask specific questions so that we can accommodate as many questions as possible today.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, we have heard the Government lamenting about the scores, the inflation rate and the exchange rate and, unfortunately, this is not trickling down to the common citizen. Her Honour the Vice-President assured this House earlier that as soon as the merchants got rid of their old stocks, they would reduce the prices of commodities, including mealie meal. It appears the formula she shared with us of first increasing the price in order to reduce does not seem to be working.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member! One minute has already been lost through debating.

Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, please, ask a specific question.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, can Her Honour the Vice-President assure the citizens out there who are struggling to put food on the table that, indeed, the Government is doing something to cushion their hardships with the increase in the price of fuel?

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Thank you, Madam Speaker, and I thank the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu for showing concern for the Zambian people and the question he asked is: What are we doing as the Government?

Madam Speaker, going back to the hon. Member’s preliminary narration of how he sees the situation, I think that the narration that he has brought out that indeed prices are going up is not true. Yes, the price of fuel has gone up but, this year, we have seen the prices of commodities, including mealie meal, going down. Hon. Colleagues will remember, for example, that one of the chain stores published the price index of different commodities showing that the prices were going down.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: We are going to continue to work hard to improve our economy. Let us call it stable. The hon. Member knows what is happening world over, but even with all these economic crises going on all around, Zambia has still remained stable. We should thank the leadership, but we should also thank God.

I think, if we follow, we will see that the Kwacha has gone down a bit. However, we cannot compare to that to what is happening elsewhere. In fact, up to last week, the Kwacha was one of the best performing currencies and Zambia is one of the fewest countries where the economy is growing.

Madam Speaker, most African countries are going through a lot of stress. So, we will continue on the same trajectory to woo investors, including Zambian investors. When we talk of investors, we are not just talking about foreign investors. We have a conducive environment in which business can thrive. That is why the hon. Minister has responded to the earlier concern of violence. We do not want violence because that scares investment. I am using the word ‘investment’ deliberately. The investment can be from a Zambian or a foreigner. We want more investment than what we have and we will continue to create the environment that we will allow for growth. Zambians have confidence in their Government that it we will continue to work and remove all those things that make our economy fail to perform. At the day of the end, let the benefits go to the poor because, indeed, this is pro-poor Government.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, when is the Government finalising arrangements with the preferred bank or commercial banks, in order to disburse the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) loan component bearing in mind that they are some people or cooperatives that opened bank accounts and the banks are charging them monthly, yet the loans have not been disbursed. So, I am asking how soon is it that they should expect these loans to be disbursed.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Solwezi East who is concerned about when the banks or institutions that should handle the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) loan component will be identified or concluded.

Madam Speaker, I think they have been identified. I am reliably informed that within two weeks, this will be concluded and the loans will start being disbursed.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, several times the hon. Minister of Agriculture has been asked questions to clarify what is happening in this year’s Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). I have received several messages from my constituency that people are only getting one bag of fertilizer and yet, we were promised, by the Government, that these poor farmers will be getting eight bags of fertilizer and in the previous administration, of course, they were getting six bags.

Madam Speaker, may Her Honour the Vice-President please clarify to the people and, hopefully, to all the people who are having problems of whether they are getting one bag or six bags, as before, or indeed, eight bags as was promised.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Lunte for the concern which is all over. A lot of it is rather rumours. The people have been told and then the story keeps growing, but the reality on the ground is that this must remain six. It is one pack which is a pack of six bags of fertilizer for all the beneficiaries who are supposed to get.

Madam Speaker, I am informed that the farm input support has gone into the depots in the districts, but the distributing to the farmer, in earnest, starts next week. So, probably, we should wait. According to the programme, it is one pack which is composed of six bags to be given per beneficiary.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Madam Speaker, following Hon. Kampyongo’s question, it is a well-known fact that our people in this country are in dire need of food and money; a situation that was created by the previous regime. According to the previous Auditor General’s reports, it is because of the money which the previous regime plundered. It is the reason our people –

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Bweengwa, ask a specific question. Do not politicise your question.

Mr Michelo: Madam Speaker, thank you so much. Now, that our people in this country are still suffering following the previous regime which robbed our people of billions of Kwacha and that the United Party for National Development (UPND) is still reconstructing the economy for our people to live a better life, when are we going to start recovering money which the Patriotic Front (PF) Government and its people, through the Auditor General’s reports, plundered so that the lives of the people of Zambia can improve? When are we going to recover the billions of Kwacha from the PF who have stolen from the people of Zambia? When are we going to recover it? 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Bweengwa, ask a specific question. Do not personalise questions, just generalise from the people who plundered not specifically the political party, maybe you can withdraw the words ‘Patriotic Front (PF)’.

Mr Michelo: Thank you so much, Madam Speaker. When are we going to start recovering billions of tax payer’s money which was plundered by the previous regime?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member who premises his question with two points. He says our people are still suffering and that the resources of the country were plundered.

Madam Speaker, I think it is important to know that to correct the situation, particularly of poverty, is not a one-day issue. This Government is working hard to ensure that resources go right down to the people. This Government is providing opportunities to the people of Zambia. I think it is incumbent upon this House that we tell our people the available opportunities where they can start improving their lives. Yes, we may have found poverty, but it becomes our duty to make a way out for our people. That is why the CDF that hon. Members have must be used properly particularly the grant and the loan part. They must be used properly because we want our people to have something not to continue suffering especially under the leadership of Mr Hakainde Hichilema and the United Party for National Development (UPND).

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear! 

The Vice-President: We want to take wealth to the people. In my last response I ended with stated that we are pro-poor. We are thinking of the poor people. That is why we are taking CDF to the people. That is why we have the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development so that people can access this and start improving their lives.

So, the Government is working hard to improve the livelihoods of our people. It is working on creating jobs. It is also trying to resuscitate industries and boost the manufacturing sector. That is what it is doing. That is what will end the poverty of our people.

Madam Speaker, when are we going to recover the wealth that was plundered by the previous regime, was his question. We have declared, as a Government, that we will govern by the rule of law. Law enforcement agencies are working on those issues.

Madam Speaker, we should have confidence in, for example, the Anti-Corruption Commission’s (ACC) ability to follow up anybody who plundered. Anyone who has resources wrongly in their custody must be followed because it is not theirs. It must go back to the people. So, it is not like we will use political means to get back the plundered resources. We have allowed institutions to work. It is not going to be witch-hunt like what may have happened before. It is going to be strictly by investigation and evidence adducing before the courts of law; then the money will be recovered.

Madam Speaker, we gave an opportunity to people, including in this House, to use a clause in the Acc Act to declare that which they had wrongly acquired so that it could be taken back to the owners, who are the people of Zambia, and avoid prosecution.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: However, this has not been used much. If it has, we do not know much about it. So, whoever is holding on to something which is not his/hers…

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: …by the definition of theft…

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: …with the intention …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: … of –

Laughter

The Vice-President: The law will take its course.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: That is the only way. We will not use any other means. People will prove themselves and say, “This I got through this and that means.” If not, the law will come in.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving the good people of Petauke Central this opportunity to ask a question to Her Honour the Vice-President. I convey greetings to Her Honour the Vice-President from the good people of Petauke Central.

Madam Speaker, 98 per cent of the good people of Petauke Central are farmers. We are thankful that we have started receiving fertiliser. In farming, we first start with the seed. This morning, we woke up to good news that we have been blessed with a heavy down pour of rains. I am sure it was the across the country. When starting to pay –

Hon. Michelo: Question!

Mr J. E. Banda: Ah, question?

Interruptions

Mr J. E. Banda: Finish first and then I will continue.

Madam Speaker: Order, order!

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, I need your protection.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Let us allow the hon. Member for Petauke Central to ask his question.

Hon. Member for Petauke Central, please get to your question. You are taking too much time in your preliminaries. What is your question?

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, I was building up my question because, sometimes, Her Honour the Vice-President says that she did not understand the question.

Laughter

Mr J. E. Banda: So, I want her to understand the language from Peta uk.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: You are eating into other hon. Members’ time. So, please, ask your question.

Mr J. E. Banda: The good people of Petauke Central are asking for her intervention so that the Government can start with the distribution of seed. They cannot wait for the Government to finish with the distribution of fertiliser because they will need fertiliser at a later stage. We need seed first. So, they are asking the Government to intervene so that muti pase mbeu kanshe, tiyambile ku chita, fertiliser ukawele bwino. Meaning, we need seed. Fertiliser can come later on because we will need to apply it after planting.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I also send back greetings to the good people of Petauke Central.

Mr J. E. Banda conversing with Mrs Mwamba.

The Vice-President: The hon. Member is not even listening.

Hon. Member for Petauke Central, you asked a question.

Mr J. E. Banda indicated assent.

The Vice-President: I was saying that I send back greetings to the good people of Petauke Central. I understood the hon. Member’s question very well, especially when he spoke in English.

Laughter

The Vice-President: His question or concern is that maybe, the Government should not wait to give fertiliser together with seed. It should first give seed because that is what is needed first, before fertiliser.

I think it may become difficult and even costly for people who are collecting these things. It is important that we distribute, and this must be done next week, so that both fertiliser and seed are availed at the same time. People do not have to make two trips when they go to collect.

So, all I can say, in my intervention, at this level, to the hon. Minister of Agriculture is that we need seed and fertiliser with the people next week. Can we start distributing? Otherwise, in certain areas where rains come early, people maybe late to plant. We will give both fertiliser and seed.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, I sincerely thank you for giving me the opportunity to ask Her Honour the Vice-President a question.

Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Administration came with very good governance practices. The traits of good governance have been seen in the way that it is instituting budget credibility. Recently, all institutions of the Government are receiving their funding at the time they are supposed to receive…

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambita: … and according to the way we have appropriated those funds, as Parliament. Examples in point are councils, which are receiving the Equalisation Fund; the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), which hon. Members of Parliament are also receiving through councils, funds that go to schools and many others which I cannot mention one by one.

Hon. PF Members: What is your question?

Mr Kambita: In that vein, your Honour the Vice-President, it means that many institutions of Government are receiving funding.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, please, ask your question so that you do not get interjections.

Mr Kambita: That, now leads me to a concern that I actually rose on when we were debating Head 7 – Office of the Auditor-General. In a situation where the Office of the Auditor-General has more work, realising that the scope of the CDF has now been broadened and most of these Government institutions are receiving more funding than before, how does the Government intend to improve the control environment in these Government institutions which have been mentioned year in and year out in the Auditor-Generals’ Reports to ensure that public finances are appropriately utilised and accounted for?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the observation by the hon. Member for Zambezi East on good governance, particularly as it relates to the implementation of the Budget. That is true. There is timely funding to institutions and spending agencies. Grants are given on time. The hon. Member’s concern is how are we going to protect public resources, particularly, in institutions which seem to come through the Auditor-Generals’ Report as having –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order hon. Members at the back there!

The hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, you are distracting.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: May Her Honour the Vice-President continue. Please, let us listen to the answers.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member’s concern is on how we are going to protect the resources, particularly, from misappropriation, misapplication, or plain theft, by the institutions that have been cited in the Auditor General’s Report. The hon. Member did note that the Auditor General’s Office has not only expanded its mandate but also, its structure. So, this is one way in which the protection of public resources will be done.

However, it is also important that we continue strengthening internal controls by following procedures of procurement because, normally, that is an area where we see a lot of wrong things. Looking at the procedures of procurement, we sometimes think that the Public Procurement Act is so complicated but this is something that we are looking at. We have set out clear policy guidelines on procurement. Indeed, should there be any delinquency by those who are used to pilfering, the law will take its course. For now, we want to strengthen internal controls so that people are able to follow procedure in the procurement of services and goods.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving the people of Chienge this rare opportunity to ask a question.

Madam Speaker, the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security is laughing at me.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Was that your question, hon. Member?

Laughter

Madam Speaker: We do not have time. Can we please ask questions, please.

Rev Katuta: Madam Speaker, the last time I stood here to ask about the Kashikishi/Chienge/Kaputa/Nsama Road, the response from Her Honour the Vice-President was that she did not know what was in the Budget. Since we have the Budget and we know very well that this road is not included in the 2023 Budget, is this Government going to consider this road among the first roads that are earmarked for the Public-Private Partnership (PPP), instead of it waiting for the 2024 Budget?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, indeed, the road in question is in a deplorable state, I am sorry to state. The hon. Minister of Infrastructure Housing and Urban Development is very much aware about it and he is doing everything possible to ensure that the road is worked on. At least, the work should start in 2023. The issue of the Government going into the Public-Private Partnership (PPP) is the way to go. The hon. Minister is looking for people who have interest in working with the Government. If we know somebody who is interested, it is important to connect them to the hon. Minister. Otherwise, this road is one of the priority areas that need to be worked on because of its terrible state, like many other roads in our country.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, five water projects were commenced by the previous Government, in Mufulira under Mulonga Water and Sewerage Company, in Chambeshi Water and Sewerage Company, and in Nkana Water and Sewerage Company. Of particular interest is the one under Nkana Water and Sewerage Company in Kitwe.

Madam Speaker, that water project was redesigned after the change of Government to rescope it. We were assured by the hon. Minister of and Water Development Sanitation that before the end of 2022, works would start so that the people of Kamfinsa Constituency, in Mindolo could have adequate supply of water. Unfortunately, there are no signs of works starting to recommence the works that were started earlier on. When are we going to resume works on the capital project to supply water to Mulenga Compound, Ndeke Township, Ndeke Village, Zam-Tan and Mukuba-Natwange?

The Vice-President:  Madam Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Member for Kamfinsa for that question. Madam Speaker, in appreciating your guidance that questions should be specific, this one was extremely specific. So, because of that, I may not remember exactly what the hon. Minister said. I do not even remember when the hon. Member was assured that works would start.

Madam Speaker, the issue of water is at the heart of this Government. The issue of water is very important and the Government is working towards improving the water problems. In fact, there is a council of ministers that is looking at the issues of water. I am sure if the hon. Member looks in the Budget, he will see that quite a bit of money has been reserved for this work. However, we are taking it as a matter of life and death, even though we may not even be aware of the problems in the places he has mentioned. We are aware about certain places like Bulangililo, Kabushi and Ipusukilo, where people literally live in faecal matter. For that reason, this Government has prioritised work on the water and sewer system.

Madam Speaker, as regards the points that the hon. Member mentioned, I cannot even say where we can start from. I can just say that projects for water supply will be starting soon, and this includes Ndola and Luanshya. Nkana Water and Sewerage Company will definitely start some works but I cannot tell which compounds it will start with. I believe Ipusukilo and Bulangililo should not remain like that. So, water is life and we take it as such.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simushi (Sikongo): Madam Speaker during the previous Administration, President Hakainde Hichilema was being fought tooth and nail like a wild animal, to an extent that on several occasions, his life was at stake. However, because God Almighty had a bigger purpose the President’s life, he made sure that he was protected, and the objectives of these people who wanted to see him fail did not materialise. Today, he is President of this Republic.

Madam Speaker, what message does Her Honour the Vice-President have for the people whom even today, when the President is on the throne through the anointing of God, they are still fighting, demeaning and defaming him?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I may have missed a few points. Sorry, I was listening to something else, but generally, I heard that the concern is on the threats on the life of the President and insults. Am I correct?

Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

The Vice-President: Thank you very much.

Madam Speaker, all of us particularly in this House know what threatening someone’s life means. Those who threaten the life of somebody ought to be arrested. If they are known, they ought to be arrested because even any life here should not be threatened. So, when such individuals are known, I think that they should be arrested. For the insults, yes, there are laws in the country that govern how we live together in harmony rather that insulting one another.

Madam Speaker, some of these things are very funny. Insulting the President – The Bible says a number of things, but, maybe, let me not bring the Bible here. Hon. Colleagues, that is why we are removing the defamation of the President. It is not a joke, but of course, there are other laws. It depends on how one speaks about the President and each one of us is a person. At the expense of misunderstanding, some people will just insult someone occupying a certain position, yet that person has done nothing wrong but because they are either jealous or they feel they are the ones who should be there.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: They are bitter and they will continue insulting. Actually, the poison destroys the container, and these are the people who are carrying poison and anger.

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Lunte, nobody has recognised you.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Were you mentioned?

Mr Kafwaya rose.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

We do not expect that from a Presidential candidate. So, just hold your fire.

Laughter

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya rose.

Madam Speaker: Order!

There are no points of order during The Vice-President’s Question Time. May Her Honour the Vice-President continue.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, what I am saying speaks to leaders, include the aspiring President.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, people who say bad things about you are the ones who have a problem and we should feel sorry for such people because insulting somebody who has not offended you just shows that you have a problem. I was saying that the poison destroys the container. Some people carry poison within them, but like the hon. Member said, God already anointed the President for a time such as this. No matter how many insults, they will get even angrier, but the President will continue on this path of governing this country in a proper manner and peacefully. That is what I can say.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, let us desist from mentioning other hon. Members’ names as questions are being answered. Actually, the hon. Member for Lunte should be happy when his name is mentioned because we are somehow campaigning for him.

Laughter

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity to ask Her Honour the Vice-President a question. Your Honour the Vice-President, good morning.

Madam Speaker, before 12^th August, 2021, in Kabwe District, in particular Bwacha Parliamentary Constituency, a contractor in the name of Asphalt Roads Zambia (ARZ) and many sub-contractors, who are local contractors, were working on the township roads. After 12^thAugust, 2021,in September, October, November and December, the contractor continued working on the roads and the sub-contractors on the drainages. However, the contractor is not on site and the office of the area Member of Parliament, who happens to be a very important stakeholder when it comes to the implementation of Government projects and programmes, is in the dark. We are not aware and we do not know what has happened to this contractor. The rains have started. Yesterday, there was a heavy downpour in Kabwe and some roads are impassable and drainages are blocked.

Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from Her Honour Vice-President whether her Administration will put in place any short-term plans during the rainy season before embarking on the long-term plans or measures to help the people move from one point to the other and also for water to flow.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, thank you very much and good morning, hon. Member for Bwacha.

Madam Speaker, the question is on the contractor who was working on the roads before 12^thAugust – I am sure the hon. Member is referring to the date because of the elections – and continued after the elections. According to what the hon. Member said, the contractor continued working until December, but now he has disappeared. The hon. Member called himself a major stakeholder, but he said he is not aware of his whereabouts. I think it is important for the hon. Member of Parliament to try and find out where he is because that is critical. The contractor may not report to him, but I think it is important to follow-up. If they are township roads then definitely, they are under the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development so why not go to the council.

Mr Mushanga: They are trunk roads.

The Vice-President: They are trunk roads. Whichever the case, and the hon. Member is indicating that they are under the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, but I cannot answer of the cuff. It is important that the hon. Member goes to the ministry to get the details. Maybe, the contractor is one of those who are incumbent with the bad contracts or things like that, but I cannot answer right now. However, the hon. Member should take interest and should go and ask to see the hon. Minister if those roads are under the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development to know exactly what is happening so that he understands and he will able to tell his people whether there is any short-term plan, which I cannot give right now.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Madam Speaker, the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government had embarked on a very big project at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) because many people suffer to find a small place to park their vehicles when visiting the patients. When the Patriotic Front (PF) Government took over, it completely abandoned the parking space project at the UTH and many people are suffering to find a place to park their vehicles. I would like to find out from Her Honour the Vice-President what this Government is doing to ensure that those who go to the UTH have places to park as they meet or visit their patients.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, Good morning to Her Honour, the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, thank you very much hon. Member for Dundumwezi for bringing that concern. The issue of the car park at the University Teaching Hospital concerns everybody who goes there. I refer this to the Ministry of Health with the hope that there is funding for the works to be done so that people start packing in decent places and have space for them to see their beloved sick relatives.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Peter Phiri (Mkaika): Madam Speaker, the people of Katete have a concern. To date, there is zero delivery of fertiliser. Not even a single bag has been delivered to Katete. Last year, when the Government failed to deliver 43,000 bags of fertiliser, we said, the Government had just come in and that we should give you chance. However, this time around, the Government had all the time, from January to date, but there is zero delivery of fertiliser. When is fertiliser going to be delivered to Katete so that people can start collecting? As you have heard from some hon. Members, there is some downpour in selected districts within the country. When is the Government going to deliver fertiliser to Katete?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Mkaika. Good morning to you, hon. Member. Thank you for your greetings.

Madam Speaker, maybe there is a bit of exaggeration by saying that no bag has been taken to Katete. I am being informed that there is something there. If is there nothing, I declared through the hon. Member of Parliament for Petauke that distribution starts next week. So, this is the assurance I can give based on the assurance I also get.  So, next week, probably on the eighth – Which day will be eighth?

Mr Mtolo: Tuesday!

The Vice-President: Hon. Minister, that means people should not come and ask me the same question on Friday.

 

So, Madam, we are hoping that on eighth of this month, the distribution to the farmers will start, and that will also take care of what was not given. On the Floor of this House, I assured people that those that had paid and had not received their fertiliser would this year, be given the balance together with the new fertiliser.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The last question will be from the hon. Member for Chinsali.

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): Madam Speaker, following the agreement and resolve by this House that the Government should improve the conditions of service for the Councillors, They have requested me to find out from Her Honour the Vice-President if the Government can give an indication of when they are going to expect the increase in salary, or an improvement in the conditions of service.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I think that is the commitment this House made that there will be improved conditions of service for Councillors. As for the date, I think councillors also fall under the Emoluments Commission. So, when the Emoluments Commission, which we put in place this year, will look at that when they implement their budget. I think the hon. Member saw their budget, and they are going to do a lot including reviewing the conditions of service, wages and salaries. They will look at all emoluments in the country. Then they will come up with a structure. This is the way it will be done. We cannot again start doing piece meal considerations.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

I wish to inform this august House that the Government has directed the following:

1. all mobile network service providers should intensify their consumer awareness and education efforts to ensure that customers are well-informed about how to manage their data usage and are aware of the availability of channels for redress;
2. intensify investigations on activities to ensure that where customers are wrongly billed, including dropped calls, they should be refunded accordingly;
3. that ZICTA should intensify efforts to periodically conduct cost of service studies to ensure that the pricing in the sector is cost reflective and affordable while still allowing for a reasonable return on investment; and
4. ZICTA to ensure that all measures that enhance tariff regulation and affordability in the ICT sector are implemented in the medium to long term.

Madam, as I conclude, I take this opportunity to urge the hon. Member of Parliament for Chienge Parliamentary Constituency and other consumers out there to actively monitor their data usage and report specific incidences of wrongful billing to ZICTA. It is expected that these initiatives will significantly curb the rate of data depletion by customers.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Technology and Science.

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): Madam Speaker, could the hon. Minister elaborate on what he means when he says the data is not finishing fast, it is just the internet speed that has increased. What I understand is that if, for example, someone is downloading a document that is 100 megabytes, when they download, it will just consume 100 megabytes. So, what does that mean? Even if the speed is fast, it will just be downloaded faster than it would be when the speed is not as fast. So, what does that mean?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, maybe, to simplify, say you have a distance of 12 km and you have two motor vehicles, one with a big engine and one with a smaller engine.

Hon. Member: A V8 and a Corolla.

Laughter

Mr Mutati: To cover the same distance, the bigger engine will consume a lot more fuel as compared to the smaller engine. Therefore, the factor of speed has an influence on the amount of consumption, price and depletion of bundles.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, how often does the Zambia Information and Communications Technology Authority (ZICTA) inspect these mobile service providers? Surely, we cannot wait for the public to lodge a complaint before ZICTA goes and does an inspection. How often does it do the inspections?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, to answer that question is to say what measures we have taken to enhance ZICTA’s capacity to carry out its work in a much more effective and transparent manner. Firstly, we now have a board in ZICTA which is carrying out and ensuring that the regulatory mandate is being enforced. An example of this is that this week alone, through the application of *707# we were able to arrest over twenty fraud scammers in Chienge and Nchelenge.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Katuta interjected.

Mr Mutati: Madam, the issue is that we have uplifted the basis of performance with the direction that we have provided at ZICTA. You are going to see a lot of action coming out of ZICTA in terms of supervising the mobile telephone operators and others with the aim of protecting our consumers.

I thank you, Madam Speaker,

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Minister for the breakthrough the Zambia Information and Communications Technology Authority (ZICTA) has made concerning fraudsters, but I believe there are still many more out there who are still defrauding people. May he, please, keep on hunting them down.

Madam Speaker, in my point of order, I also included dropped calls and bad network. In other nations, a dropped call is not charged, but Airtel still charges us. This is the reason everyone on social media is crying. Dropped calls are charged. There is poor network and depletion of bundles. I would like to find out whether that was not also included by ZICTA when it was checking the platform. This should be corrected. I would like to find out why that has not been checked because Zambians are really being deprived of their money.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, in my statement, I said that one of the measures is to intensify investigations to ensure that where customers are wrongly billed, including for dropped calls, they should be refunded accordingly. This directive has been made to ZICTA.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, the people of Kasenengwa have a lot of complaints regarding the operations of Airtel. My question has been partly covered by the hon. Member for Kabwata, but the people of Kasenengwa would like to find out what punitive measures are taken against such a mobile company whenever it flouts regulations? The Zambia Information and Communications Technology Authority (ZICTA) monitors them, but it appears Airtel is always on the wrong side. It is a challenge even when it comes to refunds on mobile money. I am sure half of us here have been victims and have suffered such inconveniences. What punitive measures does ZICTA take whenever a mobile company is found wanting?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, under ZICTA’s regulations are specific penalties that are provided for misconduct regarding telephone companies. The directive from the Government to ZICTA is that it does not relax in implementing what is already provided for in the regulations. We are going to monitor that to ensure that our people in Kasenengwa get refunded for any dropped calls and, indeed, their displeasure, in terms of quality of experience, is also attended to, including punishing the mobile operators that are found wanting, and that includes Airtel.

Dr Chilufya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, I must apologise for raising this point of order now. It is only due to the fact that during Her Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time, points of order are not raised. For this point of order to be contemporaneous, I raise it now. For the sake of correcting the Hansard, and to ensure that the nation is not misinformed through this House, I am concerned with the question that came from the hon. Member of Parliament for Dundumwezi, who stated that the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government started the project at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH), which the Patriotic Front (PF) Government abandoned, when the fact is that the PF Government in its transformational agenda, started that project. The reason that it was delayed was not to do even with the funding but due to some structural issues with engineers. I also plead with him not to push that further because the engineers involved were probably part of this House.

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling to ensure that the Hansard is corrected.

Madam Speaker: Thank you for point of order. What I recall is that I saw the hon. Member for Mansa Central walking in a bit late, the time we were almost concluding Her Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time. The issue that it was the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government that started the project, I think I have guided earlier on that this idea of apportioning blame on who did what, is no good. Let us forge ahead and look forward to doing things that are more progressive and productive to the people of Zambia than trying to shift the blame.

So, it does not really matter whether it was the MMD or the PF that started the project. The most important thing is that the project was started for the benefit of the people of Zambia. Therefore, the people of Zambia would want to see that project concluded so that members of the public can have sufficient space to park their vehicles when they go to visit their relatives.

So, maybe, with the point that you have raised, and my comment, the Hansard will correct itself.

Mr Mutelo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, Standing Order No. 65 is on relevance of speech. I am raising this point of order on the hon. Member of Parliament for Dundumwezi. We agreed that whoever will be given a chance first, to ask a question during Her Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time, besides asking his relevant question, should also ask where Chitulika Constituency is in Zambia.

Madam Speaker, was the hon. Member in order to ignore our agreement to ask Her Honour the Vice-President where Chitulika Constituency is in Zambia? We may not really worry much about the votes because those are bygones, but we want to know where this constituency is.

Madam Speaker, was he in order not to ask Her Honour the Vice-President as agreed?

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Mitete, we were not privy to that arrangement between the hon. Member for Dundumwezi and yourself.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: That item has long passed. Her Honour the Vice-President has ably handled that item and we have even concluded it. So, if you still want to ask that question, you can look forward to next Friday for you to come and ask a question. I am sure her Honour the Vice-President will have some answer since you have provided her with leakage.

Let us make progress.

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi): Madam Speaker, my question is on the depletion of bundles. I know that we buy bundles for a service. Is the ministry in dialogue with the Zambia Information and Communications Technology Authority (ZICTA) to see to it that people pay for the bundles that they use and not for the days that the bundles are assigned? Today, if I bought bundles worth K1 million and they are for a week, if I do not use them, I will lose that K1 million when one week elapses. This means that there is no value for my money. I think we need to reach a point where there should be value for money and people should only pay for a service. Is it fair that bundles should be ascribed a number of days? Is that good customer service?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member ended with the question: Is that good customer service? The answer is clearly no. What the telecommunication companies are failing to do is to inform and let the customers aware that there are options. There are time-limited bundles and those that are not. So, customers must be made aware of this.

Madam Speaker, ZICTA is taking note to ensure that all the options that are available to the customers are brought to the attention of the customers. Let me give a simple example. When you go to buy pizza, you will find that there is the standard one and the one that has some things added on, which will cost a bit more. The key thing is that customers must be made aware so that the choice is in their hands.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, even though part of my question has been covered by the hon. Member for Itezhi-tezhi, I want to know if there are plans to ensure that these mobile phone providers are able to compensate customers for that the time when there is interruption in terms of connectivity.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, we already said that where there are dropped calls or interruption in terms of connectivity, the consumer will be refunded. Let me also add that this year, ZICTA directed Airtel to put an addition of fifty-five towers to address the quality of service provision, including ensuring that the issue of dropped calls is eliminated.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Madam Speaker, we have three mobile phone service providers, namely the Zambia Telecommunications Company Limited (Zamtel), MTN Zambia, and Airtel Zambia. The hon. Minister has explained the reasons for the rapid depletion of data bundles on Airtel Zambia well. May I find out why the same factors that are contributing to the depletion of data bundles on Airtel Zambia are not happening to other two mobile phone service providers?

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Nyambose (Chasefu): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for according the special people of Chasefu this opportunity to ask the hon. Minister, who issued the ministerial statement, a follow-up question.

Madam Speaker, I join other hon. Members to bemoan the challenge of the Airtel network, which is affecting the Zambians across the nation. The people of Chasefu are equally in the same situation because there are very few telephone masts in Chasefu, especially for Airtel, and this is affecting connectivity. Is the hon. Minister considering compelling Airtel to construct more telephone masts in Chasefu, especially in Chizingizi and other areas, so that the people can also enjoy the services provided by the mobile provider?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chasefu for that important question.

Madam Speaker, we recently auctioned what we call spectrum and we realised almost US$40 million and 80 per cent of that has been returned by the Zambia Information and Communications Technology Authority (ZICTA)to do a number of things. Firstly, to invest in towers particularly in rural areas. Secondly, to upgrade most of the towers in the rural areas that are Second Generation (2G) to a minimum of Third Generation (3G). Thirdly, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning in the 2023 Budget has provided concessions and tax incentives to the telephone companies and in return, we expect them, including Airtel, to erect towers in rural areas. The last point is that, next week, we will be sending letters to all hon. Members of Parliament, individually, providing information on where we need to plant towers in their respective constituencies. We want the hon. Members of Parliament to advise whether what we have proposed fits into what they require …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: … including in Chasefu, so that the towers planted do not only reflect coverage, but also the direction of development that the Government wants to undertake. We believe the drivers for this are hon. Members of Parliament, and I ask all of us to respond to that as quickly as possible.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much for that. I am sure the hon. Members of Parliament will respond quickly because even the people of Sikongo’s message was that they were looking for towers. So, that is a good development.

Hon. Member for Mufumbwe, you have not been forgotten. You are next to ask a question.

Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to ask the hon. Minister a question.

Madam Speaker, dropped calls, bad network and the depletion of bundles is a very big challenge in our country Zambia and I am sure the hon. Minister has heard the hon. Members of Parliament’ responses. The three mobile companies have been operating in Zambia for too long and have taken monopoly kind of business. Could it be that they are now used and cannot answer to our calls? This is because I made a comparison analysis and Tanzania has seven mobile companies, South Africa hasten, Uganda hasten, the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) has seven, Zimbabwe has four and Zambia only has three. Is this Government not considering allowing other mobile companies to come to Zambia so that there is competition to avoid these problems?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, indeed, competition, particularly in the sector, is key to quality service and experience, and these are important. Competition also influences access, availability and affordability of services. Sometimes, it is not about the number of mobile operators, but the enforcement of regulation and the monitoring of the performance of the mobile operators, which is what we are focused on. However, I just want to inform the hon. Member that there is a fourth mobile operator that is due to join this market.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Shakafuswa (Mandevu): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to ask the hon. Minister a question.

Madam Speaker, I am prompted to ask this question and I will give an example of pizza. When we are buying pizza from restaurants, we have the option to buy small, standard or extra-large pizza, and when we buy it, they do not force us to eat it at lunch and we decide whether to eat it tomorrow or next week.

Madam Speaker, the depletion of mobile data is actually tantamount to theft because people spend huge amounts of money and most of the users of internet are the youths in Mandevu Constituency and around the country. Will the New Dawn Government protect the Zambians, who include the many youths who do not have disposable income, from exploitation and theft through the depletion of bundles? What is the Government’s position on the depletion of bundles?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Mandevu. From a policy dispatch, this Government works for the citizens. Our focus is primarily on the consumers. The role that Government plays is to ensure that consumers of the services provided by mobile operators are not delivered to the extent that they exploit the citizens. That is why we have said, in the statement, that we are going to enforce and uplift the resolution of regulation to allow Zambia Information Communication Technology Authority (ZICTA) to carry out necessary enforcement. This will also include a situation where mobile operators provide options from standard to large pizza, let the customer be the one to choose what they want and not the mobile operator to force the choice on the customer. That indeed, is equivalent to exploiting the customer.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kapoche.

Silence

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kapoche?

Going once, going twice, gone!

Laughter

Mr Mwene (Mangango): Madam Speaker, does the ministry think of having only one mobile service provider in Zambia for quality purposes. I have seen some countries with bigger populations than Zambia having only one network provider. In Zambia, with our population, we have three mobile service providers but we still have many challenges. Does the ministry think of having only one quality mobile service provider to provide quality service and also avoid fraud and any other thefts as regards to mobile networks?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, I think in an overall sense, it is a competition between a choice to go the direction of monopoly or the direction of competition. This Government has chosen that where you have many operators, you enhance competition, enhance variety of products and enhance coverage. Under a monopoly situation, we are going to have the effects of laziness.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

______

QUESTION FOR ORAL ANSWER

CONSTRUCTION OF DISTRICT HOSPITAL IN MPONGWE

86. Mr Ngowani (Mpongwe) asked the Minister of Health:

1. whether the Government has any plans to construct a hospital in Mpongwe District;
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
3. if they are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to construct a district hospital in Mpongwe District.

Madam Speaker, the implementation of the plans to construct a district hospital in Mpongwe will commence in 2024.

Madam Speaker, in order for the New Dawn Government to deliver quality health services as close to our people as possible, the House may want to note that the Government has continued with the construction of thirty-six district hospitals country wide which are currently at various levels of completion.

Madam Speaker, the Government is also working on completing the construction of the remaining sixteen out of a target of 115 mini hospitals as well as completing construction of eighty-three out of the target of 650 health posts.

Going forward, Madam Speaker, the Government shall construct additional health facilities, upgrading and modernising existing ones. The Government will construct maternity wings at all health centres country wide.

Madam Speaker, as stated in parts (a) and (b) above, the Government has plans to construct a district hospital in Mpongwe District. Therefore, part (c) of the question falls off.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Ngowani: Madam Speaker, may I know what has delayed Mpongwe to have a district hospital because Mpongwe was declared a district in 1997 together with Lufwanyama and Masaiti but all these districts have district hospitals.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I would not really know why our colleagues may have made this delay except to say in our plans of plans of the New Dawn Government, the timetable that I have given the hon. Member is what we have planned. We may start earlier but just to be on the safe side, we have said 2024.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: By the way, was the list of hospitals to be constructed was circulated to the hon. Members as promised by the hon. Minister?

Mrs Masebo: Sorry, Madam Speaker, I will make sure that on Tuesday I bring that list. I do not think it was circulated. I apologise.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much for that.

______

BILLS

REPORT STAGE

The Zambia Development Agency Bill, 2022

Report adopted.

Third Reading on Tuesday, 8^th November, 2022

THIRD READING

The following Bills were read the third time and passed:

The Anti-Human Trafficking (Amendment) Bill, 2022

The Investment, Trade and Business Development Bill, 2022

_______

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Chairperson, before debate was adjourned, I was in the process of giving a policy statement on Vote 02 – Office of the President, and I continue.

The office was allocated a total of K89,450,751. The following programmes were implemented:

Government Business

Under this programme, the office executed all the functions as required by the Constitution, through the Executive and Legislative services sub programmes

Parliamentary Affairs

This is an overarching wing of the Executive which co-ordinates parliamentary business. The following were under taken:

1. responded to all questions for both oral and written answers;
2. tabled Action Taken reports in response to the observations and recommendations made by various parliamentary committees;
3. issued ministerial statements on various topical issues of public interest;

1. responded to other parliamentary oversight instruments such as motions, bills annual reports and international treaties; and
2. co-ordinated parliamentary planning committee meetings.

Resettlement Management

Madam Chairperson, under this programme, the following were implemented:

1. Resettlement Services

under this programme, land was acquired from their royal highnesses Mpepo in Kanchibiya, Luwoka in Mafinga District, Lupandizi in Isoka District of Muchinga Province as well as Kapwenge in Chipili District of Luapula Province. Title deeds for 1,200 settlers in various schemes across the country were also facilitated;

1. Livelihood Improvement

this sub programme provided eighty households with agro inputs as starter packs comprising maize, seed, fertiliser and cassava cuttings and trained and linked cooperatives to cassava value chains;

1. Infrastructure Development.

this sub programme cleared 50km of access roads using the community labour based model at Chipindo and Lunte Resettlement Schemes in Shiwang’andu and Lunte Districts, respectively, and procured four boreholes for Chibobo in Ngabwe, Kalumwange in Kaoma and two at Chipindo in Shiwang’andu.

National Values, Principles and Guidance

Madam Chairperson,

1. National Values and Principles Promotion

under this sub programme, sensitisation meetings in ten chiefdoms, fifteen learning institutions and twenty government departments were conducted. Virtual trainings to diplomatic staff in forty foreign missions on national values principles and ethics were also undertaken;

1. National Guidance

under this sub programme national values principles were mainstreamed into the curriculum of the Zambia Institute of Diplomacy and International Studies. The national mindset transformation strategy guidelines on mainstreaming national values and principles in public and private institutions as well as the communication strategy on national values and principles were developed. In addition, the national day of prayer and fasting and reconciliation was facilitated. Consultations towards the forth coming commemoration of the declaration of Zambia as a Christian Nation were also facilitated.

Management and Support Services

Chairperson, under this programme, the following were undertaken:

1. implemented enhanced structure of the Office of the Vice- President;
2. facilitated the hosting of the national honours and awards investiture ceremonies in conjunction with the Cabinet. In view of this, a total of twenty four recipients were honoured on Africa freedom Day, Independence day and during the special investiture ceremony held on 14^th July, 2022;
3. commenced the review of the Office of the Vice-President Strategic Plan and various institutional policies;
4. spearheaded the inclusion of an economic programme on farm block and resettlement schemes development in the 8^th National Development Plan (8NDP).

2023 Budget Estimates

The office has been allocated a total of 159,972,085. In line with this budget provision, the office will implement five key programmes as follows:

1. Government Business

under this programme, Executive and Legislative functions will be undertaken.

1. Parliamentary Affairs

This programme will enable the Executive to co-ordinate parliamentary oversight functions as well as to monitor the implementation of Government assurances.

Resettlement Management

This programme has three sub programmes that will enhance the development of resettlement schemes in order to provide sustainable livelihoods and make them productive. The sub programmes are;

1. resettlement service;
2. livelihood improvement;
3. infrastructure development.

National Values Principles and Guidance

This programme has two sub programmes that will promote and inculcate national values principles and ethics throughout the republic and promote pro-development cultural practices. Additionally, this sub programme will provide regular guidance to the general public on behaviours that are consistent with national values, principles and ethics. The sub programmes are:

1. national values and principles promotion; and
2. national guidance.

This programme has six sub-programmes which will be aimed at supporting the effective and efficient management of the office. These are:

1. Executive Office Management;
2. Human Resource Management and Administration;
3. Financial Management Accounting;
4. Procurement Management;
5. Financial Management Auditing; and
6. Planning Policy Coordination and Information Management.

Madam Chairperson, the Budget estimates for the office presented before this honourable House will enable the office to perform its functions effectively and efficiently.

Madam Chairperson, in conclusion, I want to reiterate that my office, with the support from co-operating partners, private sector, and other various stakeholders, including hon. Members of Parliament, will continue to implement programmes and projects aimed at job and wealth creation, while reducing vulnerabilities, among our people.

Madam Chairperson, I urge all hon. Members to support the Budget estimates for Head 02.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: Since I see no indication of debate, it is a sign of being in agreement.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Chairperson, I am most grateful for the manner in which the hon. Members have supported this Vote without any contradiction or doubt. I appreciate.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

VOTE 02 – (Office of the Vice-President – State House – K159, 972,085)

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): I beg to move the following amendments: on Page 22, Table 4: Programme Budget Allocation by Economic Classification:

1. under item 02: Use of Goods and Services, Sub-item 02 General Operations, by the deletion of K16,726,483 and the substitution therefor of K11,802,004; and

(ii)        under Item 04: Assets, Sub-item 01 Non-Financial Assets (Capital Expenditure), by the deletion of K680,641 and the substitution therefor of K5,605,120.

Amendment agreed to, Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 02, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 19 – (Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit – K 79,315,496)

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for according me this opportunity to present the policy statement in support of the 2023 Budget Estimates for Head 19, Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) in the Office of the Vice President. The DMMU has the following directorates:

1. Disaster Risk Management; and
2. Disaster and Humanitarian Operations Management.

Mandate

Madam Chairperson, the core mandate of the DMMU is to develop, coordinate and monitor disaster risk management programmes in order to minimise loss of life, damage to property and the environment”.

Vision

Madam Chairperson, its vision is to have a sustainable safety-net for the protection of the citizenry, its assets and the environment from disasters.

Mission statement

Madam Chairperson, its mission statement is to develop, coordinate and monitor disaster risk management programmes in order to minimise loss of life, damage to property and the environment.

Overview of the 2022 Budget Performance

Madam Chairperson, the following programmes were implemented:

1. Disaster Risk Management. Two sub-programmes were implemented under this:

1. Disaster Prevention; and
2. Mitigation.

Madam Chairperson, this sub-programme achieved the protection of livelihoods and assets in communities and individuals from the adverse impacts of hazards. Another key highlight was the orientation of hon. Members of Parliament and District Commissioners (DCs) in disaster risk management and the conduct of vulnerability and needs assessments.

1. Early Warning and Preparedness

Madam Chairperson, notable activities included risk communication and establishment of Community-Based Early Warning System (CBEWS), to build capacity at local level.

1. Disaster and Humanitarian Operations Management

Madam Chairperson, the programme was implemented through three sub programmes:

1. Disaster Response Management

This sub-programme implemented humanitarian relief activities such as the provision of food and non-food relief items to disaster victims. The allocation also met the costs of providing emergency response to cater for the cost of relief interventions.

1. Humanitarian Relief Services

Madam Chairperson, a key highlight was the resettling of 336 internally displaced households in 2022.

1. Disaster Management Coordination

Madam Chairperson, this sub programme coordinated disaster management activities. Main activities involved bringing on board key stakeholders within and outside the Government in disaster interventions in order to assign roles and responsibilities.

1. Management and Support Services

Madam Chairperson, this programme successfully undertook the following; the provision of support services to the core business as well monitoring and evaluation of programmes and projects.

Budget Estimates

Madam Chairperson, K791 315, 496.00 has been allocated to DMMU. This amount will be used to implement three core programmes, namely: Disaster Risk Management, Disaster and Humanitarian Operations Management; and Management and Support Services.

Disaster Risk Management

Madam Chairperson, K20,215,245 has been allocated for disaster risk management representing a decrease of 8.69 per cent from the 2022 allocation of K22,139,226. This allocation will be used to implement interventions under the Prevention and Mitigation Sub-programme and the Early Warning and Preparedness Sub-programme. The 8.69 per cent decrease in 2023 is due to the allocation of funds to provincial offices to further decentralisethe service delivery of programmes.

Prevention and Mitigation

Madam Chairperson, community-based disaster risk management and risk financing initiatives against climatic shocks will be implemented. The risk financing initiatives will provide opportunities to access funding for extreme weather events and ensure timely and reliable response, specifically insurance for drought under the Africa Risk Capacity (ARC), community resilience building, conducting rapid and in-depth vulnerability assessments and capacity building in risk management.

Early Warning and Preparedness

Madam Chairperson, the areas we will focus on are strengthening community adaptive capacity, effective preparedness and early action to emergencies, and the other area will be designing and equipping of emergency operation centres. In addition, the institution through this sub-programme plans to establish the Nation Incident Management Control System.

Madam Chairperson, a total of K44,530,014 has been allocated to disaster and humanitarian management. This represents a 112.9 per cent increase from the 2022 allocation of K20,908,443.

Disaster Response Management

Madam Chairperson, on disaster response management, the focus of resources will be on infrastructure development and response mechanisms to address the anticipated increase in the number of rehabilitations, reconstructions and emergency response activities. The allocation is also targeted at the construction of humanitarian warehousing facilities.

Madam Chairperson, on humanitarian relief, the DMMU will implement the following:

1. rehabilitation or reconstruction of critical infrastructure such as crossing points, bridges, blown off roofs in schools and health centres and health posts, and blocked outflow drainages;
2. procurement of two 15 metric tonne trucks to supplement the current fleet; and
3. the provision of food and non-food relief items to vulnerable households.

Madam Chairperson, on disaster management co-ordination, resources will be used to co-ordinate disaster management activities. In addition, the allocation will be used to further strengthen partner co-ordination and resource mobilisation which will ensure efficiency and effectiveness in service delivery.

Management and Support Services

Madam Chairperson, K14,570,237 has been allocated to implement the following sub-programmes:

1. executive office management;
2. human resources and administration;
3. financial management accounting;
4. financial management auditing; and
5. planning policy and co-ordination and procurement management.

Madam Chairperson, as I conclude, I wish to state that in response to the increased frequency, scale and intensity of disasters in the country, an innovative way of addressing disasters is required. My office will continue to implement disaster risk reduction programmes by devolving functions to the provinces and districts.

Madam Chairperson, in considering the Budget for the Office of the Vice-President, I ask for the hon. Members’ usual support now and during the implementation of the 2023 Budget.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Chairperson, thank you for according me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on this very important vote, Vote 19, Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU).

Madam Chairperson, I am alive to the fact that this unit was established in 1994 for the sole purpose of managing disasters in the country. As such, it draws its powers from the Disaster Management Act No. 13 of 2010 and is headed by the National Co-ordinator.

Madam Chairperson, this is a very critical Government department and it has enormous challenges due to changes in weather patterns caused by climate change. Therefore, I think the challenge before the DMMU is quite huge and we need to increase its budgetary allocation so that it is able to cope with the enormous challenges which lie ahead.

Madam Chairperson, I see that there has been an improvement in terms of the budgetary allocation from K57.3 million in 2022 to K79.3 million in 2023, which is a step in the right direction. However, I think K79 million is not enough looking at the disasters which have befallen this country, especially in the last few years, and the DMMU has been under a lot of pressure.

Madam Chairperson, as we allocate resources to this institution, we expect itto be equal to the task and to respond expeditiously to disasters and ensure that all the areas in this country without any favouritism receive a fair share of the national cake. I appeal to the DMMU to pull up its socks because in the last few years, it has been relaxing in terms of responding to disasters, and I will give an example. We had a disaster in Chama North somewhere in January and February and I was constantly in touch with the DMMU in Lusaka. The people had serious challenges because of floods and the school going children could not go to school because there were no boats, and up to now, those boats have been delivered. So, I think it is important that the DMMU is equal to the task and is able to respond to these disasters.

Madam Chairperson, I know that in the past there was a perception that the DMMU was used for political gain and that it was favouring certain areas, especially where there were by elections. This should not be the case, but unfortunately, the trend has continued. I am on record on this Floor of the House, including Hon. Mung’andu from Chama South, stating that Chama has been in dire need of food, but up to now, people are starving. However, we saw the DMMU move in very quickly to deliver maize to an area where there is a by election when people in Katangalika, Dungulungu, Chibale –

Hon. Government Members: Question!

The Chairperson: Order, Mr Mtayachalo!

Do you have evidence of that area?

Mr Mtayachalo: There is a video and Hon. Mung’andu is on the ground. He is in Chama. Evidence is there and we can provide it later. So, the situation –

The Chairperson: The rule of the House is that you have to lay evidence as you are debating. Otherwise, we will not take it as the gospel truth.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Chairperson, I have a video here in the phone.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Unfortunately, we cannot rely on media such as that one because we do not know where that video came from. So, let us avoid issues where we do not have evidence.

Mr Mtayachalo, if you do not have evidence, kindly withdraw that and proceed with your debate.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Chairperson, evidence is there and if you allow me, I can provide this evidence on the Floor of the House. I think the –

The Chairperson: Mr Mtayachalo, the rules of the House are that you are supposed to lay evidence on the Table so that we proceed, but as at now, you do not have evidence. That is why I am saying withdraw it for the sake of the debate that is happening now. You do not have evidence.

Mr Mtayachalo: Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I withdraw the statement, but at a later stage, I may be able to provide the evidence.

Interruptions

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Chairperson, our people are actually feeding on mangoes and wild fruits. So my appeal to the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) is that it must move in very quickly and start providing relief food to our people before they die of starvation.

Madam Chairperson, we do not want to see the reputation which the DMMU had in the past. We want a DMMU –

Hon. Member: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: Order, Mr Mtayachalo!

Please, for the sake of progress, let us indicate on the gadget so that I am able to see who is raising a point of order. I cannot even hear the voice of the hon. Member. I do not know whether it is the hon. Member for Katombola or Kalomo. That is why it is best to indicate.

Mr Kamboni: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kamboni: Madam Chairperson, this is a House of laws. In the morning, the hon. Member mentioned that there is a truck with 1,500 bags of maize. May I know how many tonnes of maize that is because normally a truck will carry a maximum 600 bags of maize. I have never seen a truck on a gravel road carrying 1,500 50 kg bags of maize. That is not true. Is the hon. Member debating in order to mention something that is not possible and which is not true that a truck is carrying 1,500 bags of maize? Is the hon. Member debating in order to refer to that as his evidence?

Interruptions

Mr Kamboni: Standing Order 65.

The Chairperson: Mr Mtayachalo, the hon. Member on the Floor, can we please be factual with what we are saying. I think I already guided that let there be evidence. Let us be factual. I am very sure that where you are coming from, we have those Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) committees that are supposed to record things as they are on the ground. So, what you are saying should correspond with what is sent to the national DMMU. So please, as you are debating, try to be factual so that we do not mislead the people of Chama North.

You may continue.

Mr Mtayachalo: Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I think I never mentioned that 1,500 bags of maize were being transported. I just said that maize was being distributed. I think it is important that the DMMU must wear a new face, otherwise people are going to lose confidence. It must be able to respond expeditiously to the challenge of the people of Zambia. Otherwise, the people of Zambia will start losing confidence in us, politicians, because we say this when we are in the opposition but we do something different when we come into office.

Madam Chairperson, in conclusion, the DMMU sometimes fails to respond expeditiously to disasters because of bureaucratic tender procedures. So, the DMMU must be able to procure certain vital materials such as tents and boats in advance so that when there is a disaster it can move in as quickly as possible. I know that even the issue of boats, it was a problem of tender procedures. So, it is my earnest appeal that the DMMU must be equal to the task and ensure that most of these critical materials are provided or stocked in various districts so that our people are helped without taking too long.

 

Madam Chairperson, with these few remarks, I support these budget estimates but we need to increase the resources because of the magnitude of disasters which lie ahead of us.

 

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr E. Banda (Muchinga): Thank you very much, Madam Chairperson, for giving me the opportunity to debate the estimates of the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU). First and foremost, a disaster is an emergency occurrence that needs swift action. In this case, let me bring to the attention of this House that the DMMU in some cases fails to attend to our problems in a short period of time because of some bureaucratic procedures that it has to go through. I have an example. In my constituency, a bridge collapsed in September. To date, we have lost three more lives after that disaster took place because it is the only crossing point and people are still trying to use it to cross to the other end. This issue has been reported to the DMMU, which is doing everything it can to make sure that the bridge is made passable again, but the procedures are slowing its reaction. So, to this end, we should look at these procedures to make sure that they are shortened.

Madam Chairperson, the second point is that in the past, we saw some DMMU materials, like mealie meal, being used for campaigns and the like. This is nolonger the case.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr E. Banda: A good example is that we have an election in Serenje and today people are voting but I have not seen any DMMU mealie meal being distributed.

Interruptions

Mr E. Banda: So, I must commend the New Dawn Government for that one. This is how it should be. This is the same case in Mkushi. There is nothing of that nature.

Interruptions

Hon. Member: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

Mr E. Banda: That is not there. There is nothing like that.

The Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Members, why are we shouting “point of order” when I just guided that you should just indicate on the gadget and I will see and take note? If you start shouting “point of order, point of order” as if we are somewhere else meanwhile we are in Parliament, in the people’s House, who are busy listening to what is going on. Let us avoid shouting. Just indicate and I will be able to see and note. I have just seen Ms Katuta, she has indicated. I will stop and give her an opportunity. That is your privilege. You are supposed to raise points of order where you are not clear. Let us avoid shouting so that we have order in the House.

Rev. Katuta: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Chairperson, I rise on a point order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65. Is the hon. Member who was on the Floor in order to mislead this House when he does not have facts? He continued claiming that he has seen elections and there is no distribution of mealie meal.

Madam, it is only that you did not allow the other hon. Member to show a video. I have a video and it is even showing a letter from the council. A District Commissioner (DC) was caught red-handed trying to distribute mealie meal. It is available.

Madam, is the hon. Member who was on the Floor in order to continue talking about things without laying evidence on the Table? What happened in Masala? There was no rapid analysis after the burning of the market, but we saw things going there. Is the hon. Member of Parliament who was on the Floor in order to continue misleading the nation and the House when he does not have facts?

Madam Chairperson, I need your indulgence.

The Chairperson: Hon. Members, I guided earlier that for whatever we say that needs evidence; it must be produced and laid on the Table. Now, Hon. Banda, who is debating on the Floor, is telling the House that he did not see anything in line with the distribution of food. So, what evidence should I ask him to bring when he says he did not see anything?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order!

I can only advise that when you see something happening, for example, the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) distributing food in areas where there are by-elections, as national leaders, you are supposed to bring out the issue and even report to relevant authorities. I do not know whether that is the Anti-Corruption Commission or the police. You are national leaders. You have all the powers to report so that we all know and have evidence of an hon. Member having seen such happening and reporting. Even the police will support you.

Now, the hon. Member is saying that he did not see anything. I do not know what evidence the hon. Member is supposed to bring to the House. It is straight forward; he did not see anything. However, had he mentioned that he had seen something, I was going to ask for evidence. So, the hon. Member, in the manner that he is debating, is actually not out of order because he just said that he had not seen anything. So, Mr Banda, you may continue.

Mr E. Banda: Madam Chairperson, thank you very much once more, for I have not seen anything that someone can ask me to produce as evidence.

Rev. Katuta: One term.

Mr E. Banda: This is the positive thing I want to thank the New Dawn Government for.

Mr Muchima: Hear, hear!

Mr E. Banda: Madam Chairperson, I will not take too long with my debate. Allow me to say that the district disaster management officers should always be audited when they receive goods to distribute to disaster stricken people or areas. In most cases, especially with mealie meal, we have seen that it is not all given to the people that it is intended to benefit. It ends up being used by those officers for private businesses like distribution at funerals. Sometimes, for those who have mines, they use the mealie meal for their employees and so on and forth.

Mr Mwila: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

 

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwila: Madam Chairperson, the hon. Member currently debating mentioned that in the past, the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) was used to distribute mealie meal during by-elections. He said it in his content.

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Member has not laid any evidence on the Table and has pronounced here in the House, misleading you, the House and the entire nation. Does he have the evidence? Is he in order to issue such statements without laying any evidence on the Table? I seek your serious ruling relying on Standing Order 65.

The Chairperson: Order!

I now think we are heading in the wrong direction because we are fighting with words instead of making progress. Maybe, the hon. Member was supposed to lay evidence, I do not know.

Mr Banda, do you have evidence of what happened years back?

Rev. Katuta: Hear, hear!

Mr Banda: Madam Chairperson, this is a thing that everyone here knows. Even the people who are rebutting know. If the District Commissioners (DC’s) offices keep records of what they distribute, then this can be taken from the DC’s offices because it used to be there. Let us not hide in laying evidence on the Table when we know that that is what used to happen. We had an election in Chieftainess Serenje’s area in 2019 or 2020 when the councillor died. We saw this happen. So, what else do you want me to say?

The Chairperson: Order! Can we have order in the House!

Hon. Members, we are looking at the Budget for next year so that you will be able to operate as well. So, let us, please, put prioritise it. If we start marking what each one says to see whether it has been responded to, we shall not progress. Let us make some progress and move forward. We are always going backwards.

Mr Banda, I think I have guided. Otherwise, we will not have any more points of order because we are not moving anywhere. Mr Banda, using my powers, can you be focused on the issue at hand and debate with facts so as to avoid any points of order. We want to do away with this Vote. We are actually delayed because we still have two more Votes for today. So, Mr Banda with that guide, be factual. If you have something that you are supposed to give as evidence, please, lay it on the Table so that we move forward. You may continue.

Mr E. Banda: Madam Chairperson, somebody just told me that I have already made my points hence all these points of order that you hear, and that I should not continue making sensible points.

Madam Chairperson, I was just saying that at the end of everything, the district disaster management offices should always account for what they receive and what they give out to our people because, in most cases, things end up being misused.

Madam Chairperson, I once came across a situation where those who were hired to distribute goods on behalf of the district offices said that they had not been paid after doing that work for five years and at that particular time, they were reluctant to even release the mealie meal that was sent to one of the districts so that people could access it. The delivery delayed up to somewhere in April when the mealie meal was received in February. So, the DMMU should make sure that these people are paid in good time.

Madam Chairperson, I think on this note, let me just say that I have said enough and the good people of Muchinga support the Budget Estimates for the DMMU for 2023.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Chairperson, thank you so much for allowing the people of Mbabala to support Vote 19 – Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit.

Madam Chairperson, the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit, DMMU as per abbreviation, is a very important institution established to respond to disasters and emergencies in this country. We are very happy that the DMMU is now a very professional institution with quality systems being established under the New Dawn Government, away from the poor systems that existed where we could see cash being given out by the former Vice-President in a by-election.

This time around, professionalism, integrity, and transparency have been demonstrated by the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), and we want this to continue. The programmes under the DMMU are excellent.

Mr Katakwe: Hear, hear!

Mr Munsanje: Madam Chairperson, programmes such as vulnerability assessment will help us know where there is hunger disaster in the country. In the past, even when hunger was experienced in the country, despite the vulnerability assessment conducted, the State could not declare that a disaster. So, it is excellent that we have such quality programmes from the DMMU, like the resettlements, early warning systems, community resilience, and flood warning systems like we have had in Mbabala. Due to the rains, just the other day, we had a disaster where teachers’ houses at Maanda Primary School were washed away. So, this is a quality programme that will respond to such things.

Madam Chairperson, I am also impressed with the Sendai Framework for Disaster Risk Reduction. The monitoring and operationalisation of data is very good for hazard preparedness.

Madam Chairperson, I wish to add that through the early warning systems, we will need to see the DMMU creating radio programmes, training communities that are affected and handing out flyers. For example, in Mbabala, we needed to be prepared very well for this rainy season and the seasons to come. This will enable our people to prepare for disasters since Mbabala is a disaster-prone area due to the extreme heavy rains that it receives.

Madam Chairperson, hunger disaster relief will need to include early maturing products such as those produced in gardens or winter maize. These can help people to have some food. Strengthening community adaptation is something that we will need and appreciate. I am glad that we have seen decentralisation happening under Head 19 in terms of funding to districts.

Madam Speaker, during the previous rainy season, in Mbabala, the Kachenje/Mang’uza Bridge was washed away. There was a woman who delivered on the river. That bridge has not been repaired due to a lack of funding. So, now that the money is decentralised, we hope to see the Kachenje/Mang’uza Bridge repaired. We hope to see the various bridges on the Pemba Road that have collapsed being repaired. We hope to see the Muyanda Bridge that collapsed being repaired. We hope to see the Nalube Bridge, Chambwa Bridge in Macha, and Nefwe Bridge, which leads us to the famous Dundumwezi being repaired.

Mr Sing’ombe: Hear, hear!

Mr Munsanje: Madam Chairperson, the DMMU needs to be given the liberty to respond quickly to issues. I will, therefore, call for amendments or whatever guidelines or statutes that stop the DMMU from responding very efficiently. We need to have a float fund to allow them to move when there is a call that there is a problem somewhere. The DMMU should be able to respond to those calls and still take the best to our communities.

Madam Chairperson, even as we move forward, the DMMU moving away from political interference is a good thing that we must all support. The DMMU has a new face. Definitely, the new team there is working and is doing a good job. So, we cannot say we continue with the old way of doing things. We cannot dispute the fact that the DMMU was highly abused in the past. This time around, we want to see these wonderful programmes being delivered across the country. The vulnerability assessment reports will indicate to the DMMU which people and in which places need to be moved.

Madam Chairperson, like I mentioned earlier, in Mbabala, we do expect that we will receive a lot of attention from the DMMU both at district as well as national level because these disasters are still there. The disasters were there last year and they have continued to occur this year. I have mentioned the destruction that has been caused by the rains at Maanda Primary School in Chief Mapanza’s area. The Mwela Bridge, which is the main bridge on the Choma/Namwala Road, is already under threat. We need to see the DMMU working strongly with the Road Development Agency (RDA). We have written letters to the RDA to act on this issue and it is currently coordinating with the DMMU to see how well it can respond to these things.

So, Madam Chairperson, I support the increase and decentralisation of funds so that we can see progress on the ground, now that we have got a very professional institution as guided by His Excellency the President, in his methodical way of doing things.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lungu (Chawama): Madam Chairperson, I am going to focus on sub-programme 5002 – Early Warning and Preparedness. I see that there has been a reduction in the allocation. It is a bit disappointing because the amount is quite significant. The reduction is K552,170.

Madam Chairperson, in areas like Chawama, we see year in year out houses submerged under water. I am sure it will be happening in Kanyama pretty soon and a few other areas in Lusaka. I would love to see an increase on this sub-programme because under this programme, we should be seeing the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) officers and the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment working together and, maybe, warning people and preparing them a little better because we see the same issues every year. The same households are flooded. So, if we sensitised and had people prepared a little better, we would be in a better position. It is not everything that the Government has to do. For some issues, our citizens can help themselves if they are given enough information.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: That is how a debate should be. It is straightforward.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Chairperson, I just want to talk about the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU). I note that we have been talking about rapid response and analysis. Let me give an example of what happened at Masala Market after it was burnt. I was just wondering how that was done because there were some pronouncements that were made that K1,000 was to be given to marketeers.

Madam Chairperson, I wish to inform the DMMU that as the people of Chienge, we are asking for rapid response because in Chienge, we have people who have been displaced due to floods in Chipungu area. Up to date, apart from the tents that were given to them, they have not been given alternative help. So, it is very important that whenever there are floods and people have been displaced, there should be a follow-up to see what other help can be given to the people. We know that people cannot live in tents for more than six months.

Madam Chairperson, looking at the Budget of K79 million, to me, it is very little because of such things that come up. There is a flood-prone area in Chienge and once the people of that area are displaced, I think, they should be given a permanent place. With the help of the chiefs there, the people must be assisted so that they develop that area by building houses. We just have mud and pole houses in Chienge. Usually, when we talk about these disasters, the only thing we give to these disaster victims are bags of mealie meal. It does not make any change because people would have lost their properties.

So, it is very important that the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) sits, plans and presents a big amount to the Ministry of Finance and National Planning for the 2024 Budget because we have had disasters that left some people destitute. However, if this department was given more money, it would help the people of Chienge to build small houses, even one roomed, so that they live dignified lives. The way they are living is not the way a person should live even if it is in the village.

Madam Chairperson, I am lamenting that K79 million is very little, especially that salaries have been increased from about K12 million, and I am wondering whether more members of staff have been employed at the DMMU for the salaries to go up. As far as I am concerned, I have not heard of the Civil Service increasing salaries for civil servants. So, I am wondering why salaries have been increased. Is there an increase in the staff establishment or what? So, that also should be looked into.

Madam Chairperson, decentralising the DMMU is very important and I would like its services to be offered at the district level. It takes so much time for the national office here in Lusaka to act when a letter is written at the provincial office. In the meantime,people are suffering and hon. Members in rural areas are the ones going through this pain.

Madam Chairperson, Kanyama is a flood prone area and we see what goes on there. We talk about early warning, and by now, we should have seen campaigns on cholera, because each time there is a flood, there is an outbreak of diseases. I think the DMMU can do better if it worked together with the Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Finance and National Planning and its funding is increased because we need chemicals. For example, in Chienge, there are ifishima, but I do not know what they are called in English.

 

Hon. Opposition Member: Wells.

Rev. Katuta: Wells. Thank you so much. They are shallow, so during the rainy season, there is an outbreak of diseases. We talk about early warning, and the DMMU should be on standby and give people chemicals such as chlorine to put in the wells.

Otherwise, I support this budget line and I ask the DMMU to be more responsive to requests submitted from places like Chienge. Up to now, some of the requests have not been done such as the Kanwa Bridge and I was even talking to the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development. Soon, no one will be able to use it. It is now a river. That is why I was saying that the DMMU should be on standby and more money should be allocated to it. I think this House agrees with me that more money should be allocated to the DMMU unlike giving the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) more money.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Chairperson, allow me to add a few points on the vote of the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU).

Madam Chairperson, even as the people of Solwezi East Constituency support this vote, it should be noted that prevention is better than cure. We are spending more money in reacting to would-be disasters.

Madam Chairperson, let me talk about the component of climate change and the response to climate change. When you look at what is happening, one of the factors contributing to climate change and the devastating weather patterns is the indiscriminate cutting of trees. This is quite evident in this nation. If you are moving from Zambezi to Lusaka, you will be amazed to see how many trees are cut down and how much charcoal lies along the roadside. That to me is something that is very bad and contributes to climate change.

Madam Chairperson, I would like to see more money being allocated to the DMMU for preventive measures. Since we are talking about measures to mitigate climate change, apart from just increasing awareness and sensitisation to the community and the citizenry at large, we can come up with policies to promote the use of gas cookers at affordable costs, and allow the importation of cookers in the country duty-free. In that case, people who consume charcoal in town will be able to use gas at an affordable cost. We can then increase the allocation for the DMMU, to help sensitise those who indiscriminately cut trees and burn charcoal. We can also empower them by increasing the allocation to the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), as seen in the 2023 Budget, so that such people are given alternatives to earn their livelihood. That way, they will not be able to indiscriminately cut trees and transport the charcoal to urban areas where consumers are. If the consumers are helped together with the charcoal burners, we will be able to balance and, probably, mitigate the effects of climate change. So, in supporting this budget, I would like to see more money allocated to the preventive aspect of disaster management, as opposed to just waiting for risks to occur then beginning to respond. I thought I needed to add a voice on that.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Dr Chilufya (Mansa Central): Thank you so much, Madam Chairperson.

Madam Chairperson, disasters know neither political affiliation nor region and beyond this discourse, are potential disasters that could claim lives, key infrastructure and debilitate our economy. It is, therefore, important that as we debate, we glove our debate in recognition of the fact that disasters can the affect the nation and any of us regardless of our political affiliation.

Madam Chairperson, the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) is a Government agency of strategic significance that co-ordinates the Government’s response to disasters. Domiciled in the Office of the Vice-President and guided in its activities by Act No. 13 of 2010, this institution has played significant roles in mitigating disasters in the country thus far.

Madam Chairperson, as I debate, I will focus on a few points under management of risks and management of support services, and there will be a few points under each of those.

Madam Chairperson, let me begin with the importance of decentralisation. The genuine presence of the DMMU at the community level will only be enhanced if it effectively decentralises. Having regional co-ordinators and District Commissioners (DCs) participate when there are disasters in districts, is not enough so I urge the DMMU to decentralise effectively. Its efficacy as an institution will be enhanced if it is genuinely present near the communities.

Madam Chairperson, as we talk of risk mitigation, I urge effective coordination with other stakeholders. There are people who are charged with the responsibility to do preventive maintenance, either of infrastructure or surveillance for public health. If you work effectively with those institutions, you will prevent potential disasters. There is no need for us to watch a bridge which engineers have already diagnosed to be defective, and wait for it to collapse then call it a disaster and start running around. Those doing preventive maintenance can coordinate with their colleagues at the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), to ensure that we pull resources and prevent these disasters. I am making a clarion call for strengthened preventive maintenance activities as we mitigate risks.

Madam Chairperson, when we talk of coordination, let me further talk about the Zambia National Public Health Institute (ZNPHI). Often times the DMMU has come in to participate in the response to public health disasters. It is important that we forge strategic partnerships with such institutions to ensure that we prepare adequately and prevent such risks.

Madam Chairperson, on technology, I am happy to hear that we are investing in new technology to ensure that we can effectively manage risks by enhancing early warning signs and response. I urge the appropriation of more resources towards improved technology to manage risks.

Madam Chairperson, as I conclude, let me talk about climate change. Sector specific adaptability plans are in place. It is important that they are reviewed to ensure that we avoid disasters that we can foresee due to climate change. As we talk about reducing our carbon footprint and enhancing our response to climate change, it is important that the coordination, with other stakeholders in adaptability to climate change is enhanced.

Madam, I repeat, as I conclude, that disasters can affect any part of this country, it is important that we pull our resources and mental faculties to ensure that we prevent possible disasters and prepare our country for effective responses in case of disasters.

I support this appropriation of money to DMMU.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

The Vice-President: Madam Chairperson, I hear a common call that there is need to increase funding to this Vote because of the many challenges that Members have referred to. We do understand. However, as we keep saying, under this Vote, it is not easy to foretell disasters that may befall us. Because of that, we have a little that is put in the Budget, but mostly, we depend on contingency. We cannot plan for everything that may happen. So, when such happens, we sometimes run to Control 99, where we are funded from for us to respond, when we have exhausted the little that we had. This allocation is just a very small mitigation, but normally, we run to Control 99.

Madam Chairperson, as I can respond, let me start with the hon. Member who spoke first, Mr Mtayachalo. Yes, we, under the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), look at the entire country. Like the last debater said, disaster is not a regional, tribal or political matter. The response goes everywhere, as equitably as we can. Therefore, things such as there being tendencies of responding to problems where there are by-elections should not even be spoken about.

Madam Chairperson, I stood in this House and declared that by-elections will no longer be disaster situations. That is what we saw in the past. Every by-election was a disaster situation. We are speaking truthfully. If this is happening anywhere, as the person in charge, I would want somebody to come and show me where there is distribution.

Madam Chairperson, that is a thing of the past. We do not want that, and we are not saying it to please anybody. We are not going to do that because it distorts the democratic space, and we have not done it.

Madam, somebody may have seen trucks. I cannot say whether they were loaded or not, but the issue is that we are now working on preparedness. We do this year in year out to see where we can station some of the food stuff in particular, but even tents and other things that we need in a situation where there is a disaster, especially during the rainy season because there are hard to reach areas. We do that. We station things in those places, but if there is any abuse, this is the first time that I am hearing about it under this Government because we have never released things for a by-election. There are by-elections all over. Today, there is voting in many places, but let somebody say they have seen the DMMU in Mkushi …

Hon. Opposition Members: Chama!

The Vice-President: Chama cannot be isolated. Somebody may be dreaming. It cannot be true. If it is, we shall find out, but truly, there is nothing. You can go to Mwense, there is no relief food being distributed. This is a Government with people who are sincere to the core …

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: … and they cannot come and allege that.

Madam Chairperson, we can agree with hon. Members that if there is a disaster during a bye election, we should not supply relief food until people have voted. People should die a little. Is that the way we are going to do it? It is up to us politicians. Sometimes, we make up a situation when we know that even though they are voting, there is a disaster. Are they going to say that we must not take relief food until the election is over when all of us can tell that there is a genuine disaster? It should be the hon. Members calling the DMMU to deliver relief food and saying, even though there is a by-election there is need for relief, and the DMMU comes on board, but it will not be to facilitate the winning of a by-election.

Madam, this brings me to responding to Hon. Rev. Katuta Mwelwa of Chienge who is questioning the response to Masala, but it is not just about Masala. On that trip, the DMMU went in to support those people who, it had been reported, had everything burned down. Should we have said they should die because a by-election will be declared? I think the by-election had not even yet been declared. You will remember that during that trip, Chingola also had a disaster. Even though it was manmade, we supported it.

 

Madam Chairperson, there was a disaster in Kapiri. Is there a by-election in Kapiri? However, there was facilitation on the same day. So, we look at what is happening. This is sincere and genuine. This is your DMMU.

 

Madam, I will say this; this DMMU, that somebody described as a new face, will not be a trading centre anymore. In fact, there are certain places where we have taken support through the Social Cash Transfer Scheme so that the DMMU is not a business centre where people go and supply air or goods at an inflated cost. This is your DMMU, but I do understand and appreciate that this House knows that it has been very lean on the ground and this is why it has not been easy to function.

Madam Chairperson, somebody, I think it is the hon. Member for Chienge, looked at the issue of personnel emoluments. We are decentralising and increasing the structure. We are going to the district because at the district level, we did not have disaster management officers. Now, we are going to have them in districts. We will continue until every district has an officer who will directly answer to the regional officer. This officer will help us organise up to community level where disasters happen. This is what we are doing. So, you will see a change in some figures that have moved to the provinces. Some figures may look smaller because some money is moving to the provinces. As Mr Mtayachalo said, there will be no political issue.

Madam Chairperson, on the bureaucratic tender procedure, indeed, we will continue to make it better to respond a little faster. However, like other hon. Members debated, the entire world is moving from waiting for disasters to happen. It is moving towards not just early warning and early action but also, towards resilience so that people can build communities that are able to withstand the frequent disasters with a lot of intensity. This is where we are moving to.

Madam Chairperson, like the hon. Member for Chienge said, we are looking at what to do with those who are in drought or flood prone areas, for example. We are working with the resettlement function. If you looked at resettlement in the last Budget, you will notice that there is an increase in the allocation because we are looking at how we can resettle some people who are in areas that are prone to droughts and floods. This is to enable them go to a permanent places and we give them support for their livelihood. This what we are doing, but we need the hon. Members’ support by coming to give us information at the right time so that we can work with them.

In my statement, I think I mentioned some people who have already been settled, who were in these flood-prone areas. We are working to see how we can support them to regain their livelihood.

 

Madam Chairperson, the DMMU is not working in isolation. It is working with other stakeholders, including other ministries. The hon. Member has mentioned generally, the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment and the Ministry of Health. How else would we handle diseases that come with the floods? We are working with them and we need the hon. Members’ support throughout.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

VOTE 19/3402– (Disaster and Humanitarian Operations Management – K44,530,014)

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment on page 234, Table 4: Programme Budget Allocation by Economic Classification:

1. Under item 02: Use of Goods and Services, Sub-item 02 General Operations,

by the deletion of K29,101,457 and the substitution therefor of K19,101,457; and

              ii)       Under item 04: Assets, by the insertion of Sub-item 02 Assets under

                        Constructionwith the amount of K10,000,000.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Chairperson, while we appreciate the amendments as proposed by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, may we know which Budget lines have been amended and how they will stand in the Yellow Book?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Chairperson, the amendment is with respect to the fact that the total amount that is indicated on table four on page 234,under Programme 3402 – Disaster and Humanitarian Operations Management – Sub-programme 02 – General Operations – K29,101,457, has now been spilt with K10,000,000 being put aside for assets, in other ways to buy a motor vehicle, and K19,000,000 for the use of goods and services.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

 

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): Madam Chairperson, I would like Her Honour the Vice-President to turn to page 230 of the Yellow Book. The people of Chinsali have noted that under Sub-programme 3402– Disaster and Humanitarian Operations Management,the 2023 allocation of the estimates has increased in quantum leap by 113 per cent from K20,908,443 in 2022 to K44,530,014 in 2023. Can Her Honour the Vice-President enlighten this House of the issues that have caused or induced this quantum leap increase in the allocation.

The Vice-President: Madam Chairperson, the increase in the variance is due to an anticipated increase in responding to emergencies.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Chairperson, I hope the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is on page 236.

Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 3499 – Management and Support Services, Sub-programme 9002 – Human Resources and Administration – K7,154,239. There is an increment from the 2022 allocation of K4,841,366 to K7,154,239. However, of particular concern and my question is on Programme 9004 – Financial Management – Auditing – K250,000. We have all been indicating in this House that we need to reduce audit queries around expenditure for public institutions, but I note that there is a reduction for auditing. In 2022, we allocated K600,000 for auditing and, in 2023, we have only allocated K250,000. Why there is a reduction in expenses towards auditing considering that this is a very critical aspect of public expenditure control to avoid unnecessary audit queries?

The Chairperson: I do not know whether it is the Vice-President to answer though the hon. Member had indicated the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Your Honour the Vice-President, you may respond.

The Vice-President: Madam Chairperson, thank you for that concern but this is done in line with what is generally happening there. It is because we are stream lining activities to provinces. Basically, it has to do with decentralisation. Monies are moving as you can see the variance increasing in many places.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Chairperson, I am going back to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and the amendment he moved. The hon. Minister made an amendment on page 234 and I assume it is Programme 3402. He was saying he was moving K10 million from Sub-Programme 02. Can I get clarification from the hon. Minister because there are two programmes that are dealing with assets. There is Programme 04 - Assets, which has already been given K10 million and there is another one, Sub-Programme 01- None Financial Assets, which is capital expenditure which is also K10 million. So, which one of the two is the hon. Minister increasing with the K10 million he is removing from Sub-  Programme 02?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Chairperson, there is no adjustment on the earlier K10 million that he is talking about. The adjustment is on Programme 3402. The total does not change, as I indicated.

Madam Chairperson, in the process of consolidating the 2023 Budget, activities relating to Disaster and Humanitarian Operations were erroneously imputed under the use of goods and services with a budget of K29,101,457. The amendment proposed to be introduced is for another sub item, 02 under Assets - Construction with an allocation of K10 million. This implies that the revised budget and allocation to the DMMU Operations Management Programme will not change and be as follows: K19,101,457 for use of goods and services and K20 million for assets; in other words, non-financial assets, with an allocation of K10 million, and assets under construction, with an allocation of K10 million. That is the explanation.

Amendment agreed to. Vote 19 amended, accordingly

Vote 19, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

The Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

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HOUSE RESUMED

[MADAM SPEAKER, in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

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MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

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The House adjourned at 1257 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 8^th November, 2022.

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