Friday, 10^th December, 2021

The House met at 0900 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, let me give the House an indication of the business it will consider next week.

Madam, on Tuesday, 14^th December, 2021, the Business of the House will begin with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by the presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then resolve into Committee of Supply to consider the following Heads:

1. Head 05 – Electoral Commission of Zambia;

1. Head 19 – Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit; and

1. Head 8 – Ministry of Education.

Madam Speaker, on Wednesday, 15^th December, 2021, the Business of the House will start with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by the consideration of a Private Member’s Motion entitled, “Introduce Legislation for Regulating Youth Empowerment Initiatives” to be moved by Mr M. Fube, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chilubi Parliamentary Constituency. After that, the House will deal with the presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply to consider the following Heads:

1. Head 06 – Civil Service Commission – Office of the President;

1. Head 07 – Office of the Auditor-General; and

1. Head 08 – Cabinet Office – Office of the President.

Madam, on Thursday, 16^th December, 2021, the Business of the House will commence with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider the presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then resolve into Committee of Supply to consider the following Heads:

1. Head 34 – Human Rights Commission;

1. Head 78 – Zambia Security Intelligence Services – Office of the President; and

1. Head 86 – Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock.

Madam Speaker, on Friday, 17^th December, 2021, the Business of the House will start with The Vice-President’s Question Time. Thereafter, the House will deal with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. After that, the House will consider the presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Then the House will resolve into Committee of Supply to consider the following Heads:

1. Head 09 – Teaching Service Commission – Office of the President;

1. Head 12 – Office of the Public Protector; and

1. Head 87 – Anti-Corruption Commission.

I thank you, Madam.

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MOTION

SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS 25, 26, 27 AND 115

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that effective Tuesday, 14^th December, 2021, Standing Orders 25, 26, 27 and 115 be suspended to enable the House to sit from 0900 hours until business is concluded on each sitting day, except on Friday.

Madam, Standing Order No. 25 provides that on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays, the House shall meet at 1430 hours and at 0900 hours on Fridays, while Standing Orders 26 and 27 provide for the suspension of business and automatic times of adjournment. Standing Order No. 115 prohibits consideration of more than one stage of a Bill in one sitting.

Madam Speaker, this Motion seeks to suspend the above Standing Orders so that the House has ample time to complete outstanding business before Christmas. The House is aware that by law, the National Budget ought to be approved before a new financial year begins. This being an election year, the House is pressed for time to consider and approve the 2022 National Budget. There is, therefore, a need to provide additional time within which all business pending consideration by the House is attended to before the House adjourns sine die. It is for this reason that I propose that effective Tuesday, 14^th December, 2021, the House starts sitting at 0900 hours each day until business on the Order Paper is concluded.

Madam, this proposal will give the House an additional two and half hours each day to transact business smoothly without rushing through. This will in turn enable the House to adjourn a few days after Christmas.

Madam Speaker, before I conclude, let me inform the House that this meeting which commenced on Friday, 10^th September, 2021, has so far considered 103 Questions for Oral and Written Answer. The House has also dealt with one Motion to adopt a report of a Parliamentary Select Committee, six Private Members’ Motions, and thirty-two ministerial statements explaining the Government’s position on various national issues. In addition, forty-one annual reports and eighteen action taken reports from government ministries and quasi-government institutions have been laid on the Table. The House is expected to consider at least nine money Bills before adjourning.

Madam Speaker, allow me, at this juncture, to thank you for the effective and efficient manner in which you and the two Deputy Speakers have handled the Business of the House throughout this meeting.

Madam, let me also take this opportunity to express my sincere gratitude to the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the professional services they have rendered to the House during the meeting. I wish to extend my gratitude to the officers in the Parliamentary Business Division in the Office of the Vice-President, as well as all officers from government ministries and departments who equally played a pivotal role in making the work of Parliament a success.

Madam Speaker, this is a procedural Motion meant to merely adjust the sitting times of the House. Therefore, I urge the House to support it. Finally, I wish all hon. Members and, indeed, the nation a happy festive season and a prosperous 2022 as the New Dawn Government embarks on a journey to turn the economy of the country around.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Since this is a procedural Motion, I will allow two hon. Members on my left to debate.

Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu): Madam Speaker, indeed, this is simply a procedural Motion that will enable the House have more time to gain ground and to conclude whatever matters have not been concluded.

Madam Speaker, allow me to categorically state a few things. This Motion before this House seeks to allow hon. Members to sit for more time, but if look on your left, you will discover that most of our hon. Members are not in this House. So, my question is: Which hon. Members does this Motion seek to give more time? Is it the hon. Members on the left or on the right? Most of our hon. Members are being harassed right, left and centre. Some are in Kawambwa and others are in Muchinga, and everywhere. So, we reluctantly support this Motion, which is simply procedural as it has been put.

Madam Speaker, I want to put it on record that this political harassment that the United Party for National Development (UPND) has started will not take it anywhere. It is just a clear indication that it wants to make this country a one party democracy and we will not allow it.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, stick to the Motion. Let us try to maintain some harmony of some sort. I know things are difficult, but let us try to stick to the Motion.

Mr Kasandwe: Madam Speaker, thank you for your guidance.

This is a very important session in the Parliament calendar where we needed the Opposition and all the hon. Members to be available so that they contribute to the debate on the appropriation of what has been put on the Floor. Anyway, the Motion will lead to adjournment, which will give more time for the UPND Government to fulfil some of the promises that it made. So, as we go towards adjournment, it should ensure that it reduces the price of mealie meal to K50 and the price of fertiliser to K200.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, I have guided. We are talking about a particular Motion. Let us stick to that. You will be given time to debate other issues.

Mr Kasandwe: Madam Speaker, thank you for your guidance.

This Motion is leading to adjournment. So, as we prepare to adjourn, I urge the Government to sit down and fulfil all the promises that it made to the Zambian people instead of harassing Patriotic Front (PF) hon. Members of Parliament.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, you have been guided to stick to the Motion.

Mr Kasandwe: Madam Speaker, I elect not to proceed.

I thank you, Madam.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members on the far right!

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the people of Chienge the opportunity to add a voice to this non-controversial Motion.

Madam Speaker, I just want to say that it is a good thing that as hon. Members of Parliament, we have offered to provide a service to the people, especially the people of Chienge. However, regarding the time the House will be sitting from 0900 hours to the time that has been indicated, I feel hon. Members should have been consulted on the timing. As usual, we are here to serve our people and to see to it that we fulfil what they sent us to do.

Madam Speaker, we have been waiting for the guidelines on the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) for the new K25.7 million. When we finish debating this Budget, what message should we take back to our people?

Madam Speaker, as I have already indicated, this Motion is non-controversial. However, it is very important that we work around the clock, and in the near future, we should not have extension of hours. We should also realise that we need to work according to the way the people of Zambia expect us to work. Out there, people think we want to be here in order for us to make more allowances. I beseech the new Government to see to it that in the next Budget meeting, we do not suspend these Standing Orders but work normally the way we are supposed to work. We should do the work within the stipulated time.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, indeed, this is a procedural Motion. I thank the hon. Members who have debated the Motion. I also want to correct the notion that has gone round that there is political harassment. There is no political harassment. If you feel extremely harassed, it is an opportunity for you to go to court and come out clean so that people do not continuously look at you with suspicion.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: That is not harassment.

We have declared here that we do not want our hands to control investigative wings. We do not want to control any institution other than ourselves and we have restraint. We want to see unity but if there is suspicion and the investigative wings find that there is a reason for one to be taken to court, one should not take it as harassment. Why is the hon. Member himself not being harassed? What is the choice? Why not him? Why not the other one sitting there or the other one there? Let us not politicise the institutions of governance. Let them do their work.

Madam Speaker, what is said in the end is very important. Let us unite hon. Members. Let us not look at things like victimisation or harassment. We are not a vindictive Government. We know the environment and we want to work with colleagues to push Zambia forward, and that is what we will do.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member directly opposite me said that it is important that the House adjourns so that hon. Members can go to work on fulfilling the campaign promises. That is true and we will continue doing that. Even by sitting here, the hon. Member and I are working to improve the lives of the Zambians. I agree with him, and we will go and work flat-out to see what we can do when this august House is on recess.

Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chienge who said that we are here to provide a service. Yes, it is a difficult time. It is not normal times, but I appreciate that she understands that we have to provide a service and pass the Budget before we fail to do so.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member also brought out the issue of consultation. I think Parliament did a little bit of consultation. It was agreed that every week, the Opposition, Independent and Ruling hon. Members should consult their members. So, I believe there were some consultations.

Madam Speaker, on the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), I am sure there will be clear guidance on the use of this fund. However, I thank all the hon. Members. They can say what they feel and that is what it means to be democratic in this House. They see things from a different angle but they should listen to others and give them an opportunity so that they understand their intentions.

Madam Speaker, I thank everybody who has debated and even those who have silently debated.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear.

Question put and agreed to.

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THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Madam Speaker, we saw in the last five years under the Patriotic Front (PF), how the Civil Service was handled in a manner it was not supposed to. In this case, we saw civil servants who had only worked for the Government for just three years take up higher positions at the expense of those who had worked for about eleven years on account of political affiliations. Is the Government planning to carry out an audit or to even form a Commission of Inquiry to find out whether some civil servants who hold senior positions in the Government at the expense of those who have worked for many years are in order to do so, so that the morale which is now very low in the Civil Service can be uplifted?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, you will forgive me, I think I was distracted.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member said that some civil servants were probably not properly appointed or were politically appointed and are holding those positions at the expense of those who ought to be there and he asked if the Government will form a Commission of Inquiry. I think Commissions of Inquiry must be thought through and we have not sat to decide if we will have a Commission of Inquiry. However, as we continue to function, we will be able to detect those who may not have been properly employed because each employee has a file or a profile. When that is discovered, then, that is wrong. Those who are properly qualified will remain but at the moment, we will not establish a Commission of Inquiry to deal with that matter.

Madam Speaker, for those who were wrongly fired, we asked them to bring their documentation. We have said that clearly and nobody should think it is a political matter. We will deal with that case by case. One will have to prove that one did not commit any offence and not say that one was fired because one was a member of the United Party for National Development (UPND). We are capable of finding out whether that is true or not. However, if truly it comes out that one was fired on flimsy grounds that do not hold water, one will definitely be reinstated, and this is our position. I hope I have answered the question. I am sorry I missed some points.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Madam Speaker, good morning to Her Honour the Vice-President. Today, I am participating from the Robinson Nabulyato Committee Room.

Madam Speaker, the pronouncement by the New Dawn Government to provide free education beginning next year in January is a very good move and is very progressive. However, the people of Bwacha Parliamentary Constituency have sent me to ask Her Honour the Vice-President to provide clear guidance on this issue. Some schools in Bwacha Parliamentary Constituency were depending on the Parent Teacher Association (PTA) fees and some teachers were on the school payroll, including general workers, secretaries and sanitary officers.

Madam Speaker, now that come next year January 2022 PTA fees will not be there, does the Government have a plan on how some schools will manage the activities they used to manage using the PTA fees? Some schools were even able to construct 1 x 3 classroom blocks and to buy utility vehicles such as mini-buses using the PTA fees. Now that this component in terms of funding is being abolished, does the Government plan to support some schools?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Bwacha. Good morning to him and I hope he is well up there in Robinson Nabulyato Committee Room.

Madam Speaker, I thank him for appreciating the pronouncement and policy direction on free education. However, if I heard him rightly, he is concerned about what those schools who have been dependant on the Parent-Teacher Association (PTA) fees will do and I will not go into the details of the actual work that they undertook using the PTA fees. Hon. Members can go through the Budget Address and see the kind of fees that have been removed, which will be provided by the Government. The Government will fill the gap that has been left by the fees that the pupils up to secondary school level will stop paying. That is what it means.

Madam Speaker, on the buying of utilities for schools, I think that is why we have the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). People should start looking at that and see how other components of CDF can come through. So, basically, it is free education and the details will continue unfolding. We are committed to providing free education. Allowing the students to continue paying PTA fees is the same as not providing free education because their parents have been struggling to pay the fees. There are orphans and people who are vulnerable, who struggle to pay the fees the Government has removed. The Government knows how to run schools and we pray that those things will be handled.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, the people of Chienge, part of Nchelenge and Kaputa would like to find out when the Government will tar the Kashikishi/Lunchinda Road because it is very important and quite economical. They have asked this question because it is not appearing in the Yellow Book.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chienge for the question and I share the same feeling. It is an important road and it is important that the Government looks at it, but right now, the Budget is constrained with what will be done in 2022. I agree with the hon. Member that Chienge, Kaputa, Nchelenge and Chimbamilonga look like they are outside of this country. However, the Government is committed to working on that road when funds are made available. The road which, the hon. Member called an economic road, will be dealt with but for now the hon. Member knows that we are trying to find resources. The Budget simply cannot stretch to that area, but she can assure the people of her region that it will eventually be worked on.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu): Madam Speaker, may peace be with Her Honour the Vice-President.

Laughter

Mr Kambita: She has all the peace.

Mr Kasandwe: Madam Speaker, my colleague, the area Member of Parliament for Zambezi East, has repeatedly asked Her Honour the Vice-President the same question for the past six weeks, which is when the Government is going to fire the perceived cadres in the Civil Service. At one time, he alleged that load shedding is as a result of cadres at Zesco Limited As a matter of fact, a number of perceived political cadres have been fired. This is owing to the fact that my counterpart from Zambezi East is a proponent of a professional Civil Service that is devoid of political cadres. Now that the President has appointed dozens of cadres in the Civil Service, what is Honour the Vice-President’s honest and non-political advice to my colleague?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for asking the question many times in different ways, as he has acknowledged.

Madam Speaker, I think he started by asking when the New Dawn Government is firing political cadres. I always give the same answer all the time. We do not do things haphazardly. We do not just fire people because we have heard rumours that they are cadres. The question is similar to the one I was asked earlier. We need to have some evidence. However, I stated that it is the Patriotic Front (PF) constitution that put many people in trouble ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: ... because you cannot write in your constitution that for a person to be a director of a parastatal, a Permanent Secretary or any other director or an ambassador, one must be an uncompromising member of the PF, and that is in their document. What then do they want us to do? They have even put some professionals in trouble and they better remove that in their constitution. Even investigating is a courtesy. Going by their document, we should just tell some people to go because they are uncompromising members of the PF. However, we are human. We know that some of them were picked as professionals, and therefore, we cannot stand on an anthill and tell all of them to go. No. We are working systematically at each level.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member said we have employed cadres, but I do not know where we have employed them. I think we need to understand who a cadre is and which position he can occupy. We should know our policies in this House. Even in big democracies, there is a level where there are political appointments, but you cannot take a cadre with no qualifications to a parastatal. We are not saying that cadres must never be employed in our country, but you should never declare that to occupy a certain position, you must be an uncompromising member. You are exposing people. Since our colleagues declared that, I repeat that they have put people in trouble. Unless they have changed that, they have put people in trouble. However, I read the PF manifesto with my two eyes so I am not using hearsay –

Mr Fube: We have amended.

The Vice-President: Have you amended that? Make it public so that we can see that.

It is basing it on that document that I personally read that you have exposed people because now they have to prove right from the beginning, you call it a strict liability. This is because on face value they are cadres because that is your policy. Now, it is us to try and find if they are really cadres or not. Basically, we go in saying they are cadres and then they have to prove themselves.

Those we are employing are qualified. We have never declared that one must be a cadre. However, even cadres in the Patriotic Front (PF), some of them were professionally employed expect that they spoiled it. Who brings a personal secretary as a politician who does not understand their own manifesto? Those are issues that are real even in mature democracies. There is a level where when Government changes, they all change. If our hon. Colleagues had an opportunity to come again, which they do not have, they would see that there are people we are appointing who even know that it is departure time. So, let us be real. They asked me to be real. If they want to see a real person, it is me, whether they agree or not. This is the situation.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Madam Speaker, let me take this time to congratulate a United Party for National Development (UPND) cadre, Thabo Kawana who has been appointed as a director in the Ministry of Information and Media.

Madam Speaker, the Government constructed a dual carriageway in Mpika. The contractor also put up street lights along that road, which have not been connected to electricity up to now. When we inquired, we were told that the Government through ZESCO Limited is supposed to pay for the connections. What is happening now is that these facilities are being vandalised because they are not connected to electricity. People are stealing cables and other things.

Madam Speaker, when will the Government connect the street lights on the Mpika dual carriage way?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I will not talk about somebody who will not personally defend himself in this House.

Madam Speaker, let me talk about the dual carriageway in Mpika which was constructed, I am sure, at a huge cost by the Government. I have seen it, and it is beautiful, wonderful and commendable. However, if there are issues of lack of connectivity to electricity, my hon. Minister is right here. It is an issue that the Government must look at as quickly as possible and see how soon that can be done. It is an important asset to the country and we cannot leave it to be vandalised. That is not right. Sometimes, bring these issues to the attention of the hon. Minister. Do not wait for the Vice-President’s Question Time when an issue is important.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr J. Chibuya (Roan): Madam Speaker, morning greetings to Her Honour the Vice-President from the good people of Roan Constituency.

Madam Speaker, what measures and modalities has the Government put in place or is putting in place to ensure that Government assets, especially motor vehicles which are currently believed to have been ‘dressed’ with private number plates are returned to the Government?

Madam Speaker, this is especially that many of the line ministries in Government do not have motor vehicles, such as the Labour Commissioner on the Copperbelt who only has on vehicle to carter for the entire province. The labour office in Luanshya District is without a vehicle. What measures have you put in place to ensure that all vehicles that have been dressed with private number plates and are in wrong hands are returned to the Government?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, let me thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Roan Constituency, who always asks constructive questions. I also send greetings from this House to the good people of Roan Constituency because there are many good people now in this House.

Madam Speaker, the concern that there are Government vehicles with private number plates and how soon we can get them back so that they can go to the rightful users like the Labour Commissioner on the Copperbelt who has no vehicle is serious.

Madam Speaker, this is not something that I can just give an answer to like this. However, those with information should avail it because it is very difficult for my office or, indeed, any of the Government offices to know sometimes. However, I am sure the investigative wings must be following up these leads that the people talk about.

Madam Speaker, the Government would appreciate that those vehicles are recovered. If you are a Zambian, then you are driving a stolen vehicle. There is a saying that:

“In the house of a thief, there is always evil. You are always in trouble.”

So, do not keep stolen or wrongly acquired property to yourself because surely, you will find yourself in trouble. So, you can tell some of those you know to surrender. It is not yours, you are bringing a curse upon yourself and your family; your children. It is not correct. This is the word that some of us know.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, recently, I came to learn that in every K100 that Treasury gets as revenue, about K70 is spent on servicing debt; external debt eanating from the reckless borrowing that was done in the previous Government. Approximately K40 out of that K100 which is gotten as revenue is used to pay statutory obligations like salaries, which we have no option but to pay. Thereby, we need to borrow and extra K20 in order for us to survive, with only those two items, constitutional obligations and statutory obligations. This is the situation which we are in.

Madam Speaker, it seemed we had no option but to go the International Monetary Fund (IMF) programme way. Now that we are where we are and we have achieved a millstone, to achieve a staff level IMF programme, what message does the Cabinet have to the people to remove the assertions that are causing people to have unnecessary debates without considering the situation the way I have described it, as where we were? What advice do you have from the Cabinet to ensure that people are now comfortable that we are now going towards having enough fiscal space?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, let me thank the hon. Member for Zambezi East for asking that question on the International Monetary Fund (IMF). I appreciate the manner in which he has put this question for me to understand. He said out of a K100 that we collect, K70 goes to service debt and K40 goes to personal emoluments. That means a K110 and then we have to borrow K20, which will be K10 or K20. Is there a way out for us?

Madam Speaker, I think it is important for us to understand that these figures being true, it means every month, we are incurring extra debt to try to run the Government. Therefore, following this simple explanation, hon. Colleagues, we should agree that we are broke as a nation. If your expenditure is higher than your income, what are you and what is your status?

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member went on to say we have gone to the IMF to have a relationship with it to try and resolve these matters. What is my advice? Let me thank the New Dawn Government, particularly the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and his staff. From the little that I read, the indication is that the ministry has already reached the staff-level agreement. They are just going to the clincher. What does this mean? The hon. Minister is here, he can correct it if I mess it up in my explanation. Zambians, as the hon. Member said, do we have any other way out? We do not. Unless we continue to borrow in perpetuity until we become useless, we may not even have our own currency because the economy will be finished.

Madam Speaker, however, I will put the issue of going to the IMF in a plainest way. Some people are even saying, “you have gone to borrow. You are taking this country down to the worst.” The country has already been brought down economically. I will not go into the issues, but one of the issues is reckless borrowing. We talked about this and the wrong sources of borrowing even when we were in Opposition. I personally do not know why people chose one venue of borrowing from the capital market or whatever it is called–the open commercial market, why? I always ask what the motivation was when there were bilateral and multilateral, institutions where the Government could have borrowed from at a lower interest rate. When you go to borrow, the most important thing you look at is the interest you are going to pay and you ask yourself, when will I pay this if the interest rate is so high? Why can I not go and borrow elsewhere? However, people chose to go and acquire expensive loans that have become literally impossible for us to pay. In fact, the hon. Minister should be looking at me. I think now there is a suspension on paying back because if we were paying, we would be completely finished. Now, what has happened? We have gone to the IMF and its commitment is that when we clinch the agreement, they will lend us money. The money that was borrowed from the other sources–hon. Minister you can whisper, what was the interest rate from all those commercial lenders and other monies?

Dr Musokotwane: In certain cases, they were 10 per cent.

The Vice-President: They were as far as 10 per cent.

Dr Musokotwane: Some of them up to 20 per cent.

The Vice-President: They have gone up to 20 per cent.

Madam Speaker, let Zambians hear me. I will be more moderate and use 10 per cent. We have borrowed and we will be paying back at a 10 per cent interest rate. However, when you go to the IMF, negotiate and they tell you that we will give you the money. The interest is 0.7 per cent.

Hon. Government Members: 0.75 per cent

The Vice-President: Come on! You should say, oh God! What has happened? That simply means if you have K100, the one the hon. Member used, every month, you will be paying a K10. We are using a K100, 10 per cent of K100 would be K10. So, you would be paying K10 every time it is due. Now, when you go to 0.75 per cent, what are you going to be paying as interest every time your loan is due?

Hon. Government Members: 75n.

The Vice-President: 75n, not even K1. Then you say you are making a mistake? That means you are saving K9.25. Come on, hear me. That is 75n instead of K10. That is the implication of going to the IMF. So, you can get, pay back some of the debt because when you pay back some of the debt, you are cleared, you do not even have to pay that K10. You are taken off, it is paid and you will only be paying 75n, and that is over a longer period of payment.

Madam Speaker, I hope I am saying things that are true here because I am speaking like the villager that I am, to my colleagues. When you borrow kaloba and you are stuck, then somebody says, “ah ah, lunda lunda is too much. I will give you this so that you payback.” For me, you do not have to lunda lunda, you will just give me what is mine with 75n on top. This is the remedy for our economy because the indebtedness is then automatically reduced.

Mr Muchima: Yes, then there will be money for the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

Hon. Member: What is lunda lunda?

Madam Speaker: Somebody wants to know what lunda lunda means.

The Vice-President: It is add-add.

Laughter

Hon. Member: faka faka

The Vice-President: Or faka faka?

Madam Speaker, that means add on and on.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, this is the solution. This is what we talked about and our hon. Colleagues want to mislead the Zambians that we said we would never borrow. I was a campaigner. I read and spoke. We said we would not recklessly borrow. We said we would restructure the debt, and this is part of restructuring because we are changing the way we are going to handle debt. We said borrowing is important. Even big countries borrow. So, how could we have said that? Our hon. Colleagues should not mislead people, it is not correct. After all, some of them want to look clean. I am very happy with those who debated yesterday. Some people want to say, we said we would never borrow. We never said that, but that we will borrow but reasonably and from the right sources, that includes the IMF. This is basically a grant. You do not call a loan whose interest is at 75n per K100 as borrowing. That is not borrowing.

Madam Speaker, colleagues, Zambians should hear me, this is the way out. Everybody kakeni inyemba,

Hon. Member: Meaning?

The Vice-President: Mean tighten your belt...

Mr Muchima: Kakisha!

The Vice-President: ... so that we can take off.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: The economy will do well.

Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

The Vice-President: Hon. Minister, what you are doing is what reasonable people do.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: So that they can find a solution.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: You do not fear a mountain if you have to go on the other side.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: You must go up the hill to reach where you intend to go.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: We are not a fearful lot. Zambians watch the space.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Ask us after just two three years if you will not be smiling.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: We will not hide things. We will explain but remember it is for the better and it shall be seen that the New Dawn Government under President Hakainde Hichilema means well.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Mpongwe!

Hon. Member: The Vice-President is extremely on fire today.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Mpongwe, are you the one who is saying something about fire?

Laughter

Mr Ngowani (Mpongwe): Madam Speaker, from 2011 to August, 2021, couples in the civil service received unfair treatment where the wife is in Mpongwe and the husband is in Chipata, which makes their work difficult. It even contributed too many divorces in the country. Are there any plans by the New Dawn Government to bring these families together so that they may concentrate on their duties?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that very important question as to the behaviour the Government has portrayed towards civil servants that we separate them as families or as couples. Madam, that is not godly. To the God we pray to, it is not right because we are told that whatever God has put together, let no man put asunder. Therefore, this Government has already pronounced itself to the fact that we will endeavour to have families together because society is based on families. The society is only as strong, morally, socially, economically as families. Therefore, this Government will endeavour to try and put people together so that we can find, you know, places of work. It is very sad that a doctor would be stationed in Chipata and the wife who is a teacher is in Kasempa. Are you sure you cannot find a position for this teacher? We will try. We are working on that. We have pronounced ourselves that couples and families in as much as possible, and it is possible, will remain together forever so that divorces, as the hon. Member has said, are reduced. It is hard to eradicate divorces but we can reduce the number of divorces because people are together.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing the people of Bwana Mkubwa to add a voice and ask Her Honour the Vice-President a question. My question is on Indeni Petroleum Refinery Company Limited (INDENI). I have been conversing with my elder brother from the Ministry of Energy. Madam Speaker, INDENI employees about 400 direct employees and it has also about 3,000 suppliers and contractors and it is also mainstay for the people of Ndola in terms of business. It is one of the remaining strategic assets for the Government. The New Dawn Government has placed INDENI on care and maintenance and we know the government means well for the people of Zambia. However, I want to know what the long term plan for INDENI is to ensure that our brothers and sisters are adequately advised? As you may be aware INDENI processes about 90,000 metric tonnes. Is the Government looking for a strategic partner to ensure that this industry, being one of the most important in the energy sector, is revived and people of Bwana Mkubwa, where this asset is, can have a mainstay?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Bwana Mkubwa for showing concern about the people who work for Indeni Petroleum Refinery Company Limited (INDENI). I think INDENI is in his constituency…

Mr Mwambazi indicated assent.

The Vice-President: …and therefore he is in order to be concerned about those people except he asks me this question and yet he premises it on the fact that he has been coffering with the hon. Minister of Energy who should have even clearer answers than I do. However, I will try to respond to that.

Madam Speaker, I am informed unless I have missed something, that INDENI has not been operational for a number of months from almost the beginning of the year. So, basically what is happening is that sometimes it is the words that we use but the situation is the same. The people of INDENI are still in employment. The people of INDENI are still being paid. That is still care and maintenance, if you ask me in plain thinking because it is not operational. Therefore, people are there just being paid doing little works. I am interpreting it in the ordinary thinking. However, to declare care and maintenance indeed it will legally be done but it is not yet done.

Madam, the concern also that colleagues who work for INDENI are going to lose their jobs that is not the plan as at now. The plan as at now is indeed they will continue to work except INDENI will be reformed in a way. There will be another way of operation. When that time comes, my Minister will come and say it. I do not want to start saying things that we have not sat together to fully approve. However, since I also work with the hon. Minister I also hear. No, we have no intention of having anybody lose their jobs in INDENI. We have a programme for them but I will not pronounce it now until we all see it.

Madam Speaker, if that is the case and INDENI will continue operating differently that means all those that depend on INDENI, like he called them suppliers, will also continue. We are not closing INDENI per se but it may not continue to fully operate like that. However, there are many issues that must settled, some of them, commitments that must be looked at and then it will be declared the way to go. Care and maintenance is probably a legal way of describing a situation where there is no production at the moment but the company must continue to survive that is what it means. That is my little understanding.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

_____

QUESTION FOR ORAL ANSWER

PROCUREMENT OF CORONAVIRUS BOOSTER VACCINES

 103. Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North) asked the Minister of Health:

1. whether the Government has any plans to procure the Coronavirus booster vaccines to improve the protection of citizens against COVID-19; and

1. if so, when the booster vaccines will be procured.

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, allow me to begin to by explaining what is meant by the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) booster vaccines in order to provide the context of my response to the question.

Madam Speaker, simply put, when an individual has received full vaccination, whether one or two doses, depending on the type of vaccine and with time, it is ascertained that the protection offered by the vaccine has reduced below a certain level. A decision may be made to administer another dose of the COVID-19 vaccine in order to restore the immunity to a sufficient level. This extra dose is what is referred to as a booster dose and may either be the same type of vaccine that was initially administered or a different one from within the approved basket of vaccines.

Madam Speaker, I want to add that the decision whether or not, to administer booster vaccines is a technical one which should be firmly based on evidence, taking into consideration individual risk groups, vaccine availability, the disease burden and indeed, other critical factors such as vaccination coverage in the population.

Madam Speaker, our technical experts are currently actively deliberating on this matter and will provide policy recommendations in due course. The COVID-19 vaccines being procured currently are for the primary series of COVID-19 vaccination as the main focus is to work towards the 70 per cent population vaccine coverage.

Madam Speaker, procurement of vaccines to be used as booster doses will depend on the decision that will be made following the policy recommendations by the technical team.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, I take this opportunity to thank the hon. Minister of Health for this response. Indeed, I think her response would be able to address this issue to give chance to technocrats so that they are able to come up with the booster vaccine which is ideal for Zambia.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I think there is no follow up question on that. I think he is just acknowledging my answer and appreciating me.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Chilufya (Mansa Central): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for her comprehensive response. I want to state here that vaccination is the magic bullet in the fight against the COVID-19 and I support her efforts to accelerate vaccination in the country. I also support her intention to ensure that we reach head immunity by focusing on 70 per cent coverage.

Madam Speaker, when we sensitise the public adequately on the importance of vaccination, do we have adequate stockpile of vaccines for everyone to be vaccinated? I must address my statement by also using the platform to state that the debate really should not even be about mandatory or not mandatory. People must be adequately sensitised on the importance of vaccination because those who are vaccinate will have less severity of illness and less likelihood to die. I fully support her intention to vaccinate many people of Zambia. I just wanted to find out about the stockpile.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament and former hon. Minister of Health. First of all, I am glad that we are all speaking the same language on this matter of the importance to ensure that all our 8.4 million eligible population currently, must get vaccinated. I think the question is, “Do we have enough doses?”

Madam Speaker, currently, the country has received 4,454,820 doses of COVID-19 vaccines, of course, from various sources including the COVID-19 Vaccines Global Access (COVAX). Of these, as I have said, the eligible population is standing at 8.4 million and of these, 3.4 million will be covered by the World Health Organisation (WHO) led COVAX facility, which the country is not paying for. We thank our partners for that. The remaining 4.7 million people will be covered by what the Government will mobilise through the Treasury and other sources which include, of course, donations from our co-operating partners and the private sector.

Madam Speaker, currently, I want to say that the Government has placed an order through the African Vaccine Acquisition Trust (AVAT) to procure an extra 4.4 million doses of Johnson & Johnson vaccine. The cost of this order will be around US$40 million. So far, we have as a country, paid a down payment of US$6.6 million towards this procurement. Of this order, 438,400 vaccines have so far been delivered. More consignments will keep coming.

Madam Speaker, as the hon. Member may be aware, just yesterday, I gave my policy statement, the Budget statement and I did indicate that the Government has since allocated K704 million in the 2022 Budget for procurement of COVID-19 vaccines. All in all, my answer would be, yes we are ready. We do have sufficient consignments to cover the 8.4 million, looking at what we have received and what we have put on order and looking at offers for donations that are coming in from various partners.

Madam Speaker, currently our challenge is not so much on the vaccines but to encourage our people to get vaccinated. The response, I thank to the hon. Member for his leadership, has been quite good and we just hope that before next year, we should get to a point where half our population gets vaccinated. It is also good to see the people of Zambia asking about the booster vaccine at this point. It means that they are beginning to understand that vaccination is the only way for now in terms of protecting oneself and also, protecting others.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I will encourage the hon. Members to engage the hon. Minister of Health to offer any suggestions and ask for clarifications. Due to shortness of time, we would have loved to continue to with the questions but we need to make progress.

________

MOTION

WAYS AND MEANS

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now resolve into Committee of Ways and Means to consider the raising of supply.

Madam, I am a bearer of nine messages from His Excellency the President recommending that these Motions, which I now lay on the Table, be proceeded with in this House.

Dr Musokotwane laid the paper on the Table.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, as a result of the Budget that I represented to this august House on Friday 29^th October, 2021, it is necessary to introduce the financial measures that I will outline in the Committee.

I thank you, Madam.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

THE INCOME TAX ACT

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Income Tax Act so as to:

1. increase the Pay-As-You-Earn tax free threshold for individuals to fifty-four thousand Kwacha per annum;

1. provide for the deductibility of mineral royalty for corporate income tax assessment purposes;

1. reduce the standard corporate income tax rate to thirty per cent;

1. extend the application of a fifteen per cent income tax rate on income earned by persons providing accommodation and food services to 31^st December, 2022;

1. exempt the payment of withholding tax on interest from interest earning accounts held by individuals with institutions registered under the Banking and Financial Services Act, 2017;

1. revise the rental income tax regime;

1. suspend the application of income tax to persons carrying on the business of manufacturing ceramic products for the charge years 2022 and 2023;

1. extend the period for which disallowed interest deduction can be carried forward by persons carrying on a mining operation or electricity generation;

1. revise the bands for presumptive taxes on taxis and buses;

1. introduce withholding tax at the rate of twenty per cent on reinsurance placed with reinsurers not licenced in the Republic;

1. provide clarity on the computation of winnings for income tax purposes;

• provide for the registration of a person with disability with the Zambia Agency for Persons with Disabilities for income tax purposes; and

1. provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

Madam Chairperson, the purpose of this Motion is to enable me introduce legislation to amend the Income Tax Act so as to introduce changes that I announced in my Budget Speech on 29^th October, 2021.

Madam Chairperson, I thank the House for the support.

Question put and agreed to.

THE VALUE ADDED TAX ACT

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Value Added Tax Act so as to:

1. provide clarity on the use of an electronic fiscal device to record each sale or transaction;

1. revise the penalty for a taxable supplier for failure to issue a tax invoice;

1. provide for an upward adjustment of the penalty for a taxable supplier for failure to use an electronic fiscal device;

1. provide clarity on documents to be submitted by the supplier in support of imported goods; and

1. provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

Madam Chairperson, I thank the Committee for the support.

I thank you, Madam.

Question put and agreed to.

THE CUSTOMS AND EXCISE ACT

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Customs and Excise Act so as to:

1. align the First Schedule to the 2022 Harmonised Commodity Description and Coding System of the World Customs Organisation;

1. revise the rates of Customs and Excise duty payable on certain goods;

1. revise the list of goods to be subject to surtax at importation;

1. remove the export duty on maize; and

1. provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

Madam Chairperson, I thank the House for the support.

Question put and agreed to.

THE PROPERTY TRANSFER TAX ACT

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Property Transfer Tax Act so as to:

1. provide for a ten per cent property transfer tax rate on the transfer of a mineral processing licence;

1. provide clarity on the period for the exemption of property transfer tax on an indirect transfer of shares;

1. permit the filing of a return by proxy where the transferor may be dead, absent from the Republic or cannot be located; and

1. provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

Madam Chairperson, the purpose of the Motion is to amend legislation to amend the Property Transfer Tax Act so as to introduce changes that I announced in my Budget Speech in the 2022 Budget.

Question put and greed to.

THE INSURANCE PREMIUM LEVY ACT

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Insurance Premium Levy Act, 2015, so as to revise the Insurance Premium Levy.

Madam Chairperson, the purpose of this Motion is to enable me introduce legislation to amend the Insurance Premium Levy Act, 2015, so as to introduce changes that I announced in my Budget Speech on 29^th October, 2021.

Madam Chairperson, I thank the House.

Question put and agreed to.

THE ZAMBIA DEVELOPMENT AGENCY ACT

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Zambia Development Agency Act, 2006 so as to:

1. introduce an investment threshold of fifty thousand United States Dollars or equivalent for a local investor to qualify for incentives in accordance with the Act; and

1. provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

Madam Chairperson, the purpose of this Motion is to enable me to introduce legislation to amend the Zambia Development Agency Act 2006, so as to introduce changes that I announced in my Budget Speech on 29^th October, 2021.

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Chairperson, I have an issue with this amendment of the Zambia Development Agency Act. First and foremost, we have given incentives to foreign investors who come in this country. Most of the time, upon enjoying these investments such as tax holidays, accruing certain profits and when the incentives expire, they tend to leave the country and carry everything and their investment. So, how –

Madam Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.

 [THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMITTEE in the

Chair]

Mr Mwambazi: Madam Chairperson, before business was suspended, I was debating the issue of amendments to the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) Act, concerning the increase or the introduction of US$50,000 for the citizens to ensure that they have incentives as local investors.

Madam Chairperson, like I already said, most of the times we have given preference to foreign nationals to have these incentives and upon winding up the five years, if it is a tax incentive, they tend to leave the country so that they do not pay taxes or any other incentive which was given to them by the Government. So, the amendment of this Act does not sit well for me in the sense that we need incentives for the locals, just by virtue of them being Zambian. It is important that the Government have incentives than the introduction of the US$50,000.

Madam Chairperson, if you look at most of the businesses in Zambia, they are small and medium enterprises (SMEs). For them, this US$50,000 can be their capital to do business. So how are we going to encourage the locals to invest? If it were an issue of being in a Multi Facility Economic Zone (MFEZ) where there was an issue of paying a US$500,000 and a reduction, then we could have said this is a progressive change to ensure that many local investors participate in the MFEZs.

Madam Chairperson, I do not want to support this amendment.

I thank you, Madam.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Chairperson, before I wind up, let me briefly respond to the statement that my hon. Colleague on your left side made. I think he is contradicting himself because the situation now is that for a foreigner and a Zambian to access those incentives, if they are operating in the Multi Facility Economic Zone (MFEZ), they need to put up an investment worth US$500,000, as a minimum. The proposal on the table discriminates in favour of Zambians. For the Zambians, it will not be US$500,000 for them to access those incentives but it will only be US$50,000, which is less. So, for him to say he is opposed to this, it means he wants to maintain the status quo, which means that Zambians should continue putting up US$500,000 as a minimum. I think that this proposal does discriminate in favour of Zambians. Exactly what he wants us to do.

Madam Chairperson, other than that, I want to thank the House. The purpose for this Motion – I suppose I was just responding to the hon. Member and I stop for now.

I thank you, Madam

Question put and agreed to.

ROAD TRAFFIC (AMENDMENT) ACT

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Road Traffic Act, 2002 so as to revise the taxes payable for motor vehicles and trailers. The purpose of this Bill is to enable me introduce legislation to amend the Road Traffic Act, 2002 so as to introduce changes that I announced in the Budget Speech on 29^th October, 2021,

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Chairperson, thank you for this opportunity.

Madam Chairperson, I have checked the amendment, but the concern I have is that as a country, we are very good at adjusting taxes. In this case, we have adjusted all loan licenses. Let me pick a practical example of being on a payable annual license where the Bill prescribes motor vehicles of 800kg but do not exceed 1000kg, of which I need to pay K1,283 per annum. Then Clause 4(n) prescribes vehicles with a gross weight of 20,000kg of which I need to pay K13,750. On top of that, I pay Carbon Emission Tax and Motor Vehicle Licence Tax. The hon. Minister would agree with me that a trailer as prescribed in Clause 4(n) of the Bill is only used in two or three trips in a year. Sometimes these trailers do not even recoup the money paid for them as taxes.

Madam Chairperson, so it is my appeal that when the hon. Minister sits down with his team, they should see to it that they also include people from the very sectors under review. If they just do it by themselves, they are killing the small and medium enterprises (SMEs) and the small scale transporters.

Madam Chairperson, the biggest problem we have is that as much as we want to get the money from transporters, we are not helping them as a country. We are not giving them incentives to see to it that they are also making money. It is as if we are milking a stone which cannot produce milk. Let me give a practical example of what is happening. Let me take the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) for example, which is a Government institution. The only people, who are paid when contracted by FRA are those who are politically connected or a big company with maybe a fleet of over 50 trucks because they can know how to maneuver with management.

For a person like me, with ten or eight trucks, it is very difficult in the first place to even get a job from there. In addition, if I get a job, it is very difficult again, to be paid. I will go a year without payment. As a country, we even allowed those companies to come to Zambia on the pretext that they are Zambians and doing more jobs and more harm to local people but you have failed to protect them. Hon. Minister, transporters have cried. I only hope that this time around, there is going to be a listening Government. Listen to the transporters and understand what they need so that the country can collect enough revenue. The transporters can also make more money to employ more people so that we reduce unemployment in this sector.

Madam Chairperson, on mining, the hon. Minister will agree with me that not even – I only hope the New Dawn Government will be able to protect locals in this sector because what has happened now is that the entire mining sector has been taken over by Tanzanians. If you compare to the taxes Tanzanians pay in their country for the whole year and the taxes we pay here, you will note that they pay US$20 compared to us who pay US$40, US$20 for a horse and US$20 a trailer. That is the road tax they pay per year compared to our taxes. In addition, as a country, we have given all contracts in the mines, whether Mopani, Konkola Copper Mines (KCM), Kansanshi, or wherever, to Tanzanians and we cannot do the job because we are perceived that our rates are high. Why are the rates high? It is because the Government has failed to protect us. You can look at these rates and somebody who is paying US$20. How are we going to compete? It is a bit difficult for us to compete with them. If you check the Mozambicans, they are paying US$70 the whole year.

Madam Chairperson, what we are saying is not that the taxes are high but please protect this sector so that Zambians can strive in this business. Give then incentives that are going to help out. Failure to that we are unable, as a country, to progress in this sector. That is the reason you have seen somebody sitting in Dubai operating a company in Zambia. It is very simple because some of those trucks are registered in Mozambique and others in Tanzania but they are telling us that this company is a Zambian registered company and we have allowed this. The workers at Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) and Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) are aware of this but they have let it go like that without protecting our own. This is killing us as Zambians. My appeal to the hon. Minister is that he looks at the fuel contracts. I am glad that Hon. Kapala is moving on the right way. However, looking at this, we need to do more to encourage our own. It is not good that few individual selfish officers we have in some sectors deprive the people of Zambia. We have reports, you have reports, the ministry of Mines and Minerals Development and the Ministry of Transport and Logistics has reports but they cannot take action. I wonder why they cannot take action. Meaning that even at the highest level, if they cannot take action means they are compromised. So, the best thing the Government can do, for us to be paying these fees, is to please protect the people of Zambia.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Chairperson, in responding to the hon. Member that has just spoken, I think I have no problems with that. I am a 100 per cent in agreement with what he is saying. Of course, on the other hand, taxes must be paid because they are part of the industry but what I can assure him is that I am willing to sit down with all the colleagues who are part of the value chain for transportation. That is, the hon. Ministers of Transport and Logistics, Minister of Energy, and to some extent, even the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. I will be ready and propose to them that we meet and go through all the difficulties that you, colleagues in the transport sector, face. We will be ready to engage you so that where there are obstacles or difficulties that we can disentangle; we will certainly be ready to do so. Of course, it is the wish of all us, including myself as an individual that as the economy expands, especially as we talk about expanding copper production, the main beneficiaries must be the people of Zambia. So, if Zambians are not competitive we need to address the issue. Why are they not competitive so that they become competitive? So, that is something that we are going to do. Other than for that, I want to once again thank the House for the support.

Question put and agreed to.                    

THE BETTING CONTROL ACT

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Betting Control Act so as to:

1. revise the licence fees for a bookmaker;

1. revise the validity  period for a licence issued to a bookmaker ;

1. provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

Madam Chairperson, the purpose of this Motion is to enable me introduce legislation to amend the Betting Control Act so as to introduce changes that I announced in the Budget Speech on 29^th October, 2021.

I thank you Madam Chairperson.

Question put and agreed to.

MONEY LENDERS ACT

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Chairperson I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Money Lenders Act so as to revise the Money Lenders Licence Fee.

The purpose of the Motion is to enable me introduce legislation to amend the Money Lenders Act so as to introduce changes that I announced in the Budget Speech on the 29^th October, 2021.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Question put and agreed to.

______

HOUSE RESUMED

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

Resolutions reported.

Report adopted.

Question put and agreed to and Madam Speaker appointed the hon. Minister of Finance to be a committee of one to bring in the necessary Bills to give effect to the resolutions of the Committee of Ways and Means.

_______

 

BILLS

FIRST READING

THE INCOME TAX (Amendment) BILL, 2021

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Income Tax (Amendment) Bill, N. A. B. No. 41/2021.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Planning and Budgeting Committee. The Committee is requested to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Wednesday, 22^nd December, 2021. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

THE VALUE ADDED TAX (Amendment) BILL, 2021

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Value Added Tax (Amendment) Bill, N. A. B. No. 42/2021.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Planning and Budgeting Committee. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Wednesday, 22^nd December, 2021. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

THE CUSTOMS AND EXCISE (Amendment) BILL

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Customs and Excise (Amendment) Bill, N. A. B. No. 43/2021.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker:  The Bill stands referred to the Planning and Budgeting Committee. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Wednesday, 22^nd December, 2021. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

THE PROPERTY TRANSFER TAX (Amendment) BILL, 2021

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Property Transfer Tax (Amendment) Bill No. 44 of 2021.

Madam Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on National Economy, Trade and Labour Matters. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Wednesday, 22^nd December, 2021. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

THE INSURANCE PREMIUM LEVY (Amendment) Bill, 2021

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Insurance Premium Levy (Amendment) Bill, No. 45 of 2021

Madam Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on National Economy, Trade and Labour Matters. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Wednesday, 22^nd December, 2021. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

THE ZAMBIA DEVELOPMENT AGENCY (Amendment) BILL, 2021

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Zambia Development Agency (Amendment) Bill, No.46 of 2021.

Madam Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on National Economy, Trade and Labour Matters. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Wednesday, 22^nd December, 2021. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

THE ROAD TRAFFIC (Amendment) BILL, 2021

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Road Traffic (Amendment) Bill, No.47 of 2021.

Madam Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Delegated Legislation. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Wednesday, 22^nd December, 2021. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

THE BETTING CONTROL (Amendment) BILL, 2021

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Betting Control (Amendment) Bill, No. 48 of 2021.

Madam Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Delegated Legislation. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Wednesday, 22^nd December, 2021. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

THE MONEY LENDERS (Amendment) BILL, 2021

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Money Lenders (Amendment) Bill No. 49 of 2021. 

Madam Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Delegated Legislation. The committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Wednesday, 22^nd December, 2021. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the committee.

_______

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEE in the

Chair]

VOTE 27 – (Public Services Management Division – K43,682,311)

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Chairperson, thank you for according me this opportunity to present the 2022 Estimates of Expenditure for the Public Services Management Division.

The House may wish to note that the division falls under the Office of the President and is charged with the overall responsibility of human resources management in the public services, in line with the Government Gazette Notice No. 1123 of 2021, on allocation of portfolio and statuary functions of Government, ministries and departments.

Review of the 2021 Budget Performances

Madam Chairperson, the House may wish to note that in the year 2021, the division received a total budgetary allocation of K31,910,746 for its programmes, activities and personal emoluments. In this regard the following programmes and activities where undertaken:

Devolution of Human Resources Functions

Madam Chairperson, the division undertook capacity building of human resources management committees in Muchinga Province and the Eastern Province on a pilot bases.

Human Resources Management

Madam Chairperson, the division facilitated the issuance of Treasury Authorities to twenty- eight various ministries, provinces and spending agencies to recruit 4,839 employees.

Establishment Control

Madam Chairperson, I am happy to report that the division updated and published the 2022 Public Services Establishment Register to support Estimates of Expenditure on personal emoluments for the financial year 2022.

Collective Bargaining Processes

Madam Chairperson, the division held and concluded the negotiations for 2021 improved salaries and conditions of services with fourteen Public Service Unions within the ninety-nine days of expiry of the existing collective agreements. This was in accordance with section 69(1)(a) of the Industry and Labour Relation Act Capture 269 of the Laws of Zambia.

Madam, the division has since commenced negations with Public Services Unions for revised salaries and conditions of services for the public services for the year 2022.

Performance Management

Madam Chairperson, the division provided technical support to Government ministries institutions on performance management including the performances based contract system. In this regard, the division received and analysed a total of 412 contracts for directors, assistant directors and their equivalents in the public services.

Government of the Republic of Zambia Funeral Assistances Scheme

Madam Chairperson, during the period under review the division facilitated the provision of funeral benefits under the Government of the Republic of Zambia (GRZ) Funeral Assistances Scheme for 11,447 claims amounting to K74,500,062.

Challenges and Mitigating Measures

Madam Chairperson, the division had to scale down the implementation of programmes and activities due to the prevalence of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic.

Overall Impact of 2021 Programmes

Madam Chairperson the programmes and activities undertaken by the division in the finical year 2021 had various positive outcomes.

     Madam Chairperson, notable among them being:

1. intensified fight against Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) by facilitating recruitment of 745 frontline medical personnel

1. enhance the employee accountability and performance in the public service through the implementation of the performance based contract system at director and assistant director level.

1. maintain the industrial harmony in the public service and;

1. provided funeral benefits for public service employees and their appointed beneficiaries

2022 Policy Direction and Key Programs to Be Implemented

Madam Chairperson, the summary estimates by economic classification show that K43,682,311 has been allocated to the division. Out of the allocation, K30,151,886 representing 69 per cent has been allocated to personal emoluments. The remaining amount of K13,350,425 representing 31 per cent is meant for operations and programme implementation.

Madam Chairperson, in the financial year, 2022, the Division will continue to provide technical support on devolved human resources functions in the public service. Further, the Division will enhance a human resource planning and focusing and strengthening public service performance management and establishment control mechanisms. The Division will also promote industrial harmony and cordial labour relation as well as scaling up monitoring and evaluation activities in view of devolution.

Expected Overall Impact of 2022 Programmes

Madam Chairperson, the Division is confident that the implementation of the outlined programs will contribute to the efficient and effective management of the public service.

Madam Chairperson, in conclusion, I want to reiterate that the role of the Division is to coordinate the management and development of the human resource in the public service. This august House will therefore, agree with me that the success of any national development programme is dependent on competent human resource in the public service. Consequently, I urge this august House to favourably consider the Division’s estimates of expenditure for 2020.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Chairperson, thank you for the opportunity. I want to thank the Vice-President for the elaborate policy statement she has given for the Public Service Management Division, especially that this is an engine that controls our Civil Service.

Madam Chairperson, I want to bring to your attention an issue to do with the collective bargaining process. The Vice-President has indicated in the policy statement that the collective bargaining process has almost reached the conclusive point, especially on revised salaries and public service conditions. Bearing in mind that the economy is likely to change to drive especially for 2022, with the possible increment of electricity tariffs and fuel. I think it has a spill over effect on the day to day economic activities of not only the industry, but also the bargaining power of the public service workers. I do not know whether this has been projected or factored in, especially that we are yet to know the economic outlook will be in 2022, especially with those aforementioned possible increments. I know that the United States (US) Dollar has appreciated and I think there was a question if the Kwacha has appreciated, then should we be talking about a reduction in those factors, but I think it is free-flowing when it comes to those two factors that I mentioned.

Madam Chairperson, may I also bring to your attention the issue of performance appraisals. I know that in this Parliament we have divided the people of Zambia. There are those belonging to the Opposition and those belonging to the Ruling Party. We all know that during elections, in as far as there is a civil service ethics code that manages civil servants, we have seen them dividing into camps when it comes to who they support. Some of them visibly show it. We see it especially some of us who come from rural areas. We have seen civil servants widely campaigning in power and many other factors. Some of them belong to the United Party for National Development (UPND), National Democratic Congress (NDC), Patriotic Front (PF) and others.

Madam, as I indicated earlier, this is more of an engine to what I feel should separate those that are called cadres and I appreciate that the Vice-President earlier did separate cadres in different areas. For instance, I am not afraid to be called a PF cadre because I am one. Moreover, cadres are classified in different ranges. There are white and blue collar and those that are peasant cadres that we usually refer to belonging to the stations and markets. However, my concern is mainly on the performance appraisal. We should sieve who qualifies and who does not qualify through continuous appraisal of the personnel in the Public Service. I think that will qualify because at the end of the day, all of them are Zambians and they deserve to be in Zambia and have a share. So, those that qualify should be given these jobs.

Madam Chairperson, I also want to talk about an issue related to the collective bargaining process which has to do with the debt swap. We know that whereas the debt swap had worked for some of the public workers in some way, this is a question that is yet to be attended to in full so that it has a clear cut policy of what direction should be taken. Today, we were talking about the issues of transfers and I think the Vice-President indicated that the New Deal Government is likely to bring sanity in that area.

Madam, however, I want to talk about job seeking in the country by different professionals. If I am seeking for a job today and I have seen an opening in Kaputa or any other area, I need to rush for it because the felt need to attend to my physiological needs and other factors come in first than my arrangement first with my wife because even my wife needs to feed. People say there is no proper romance without finance and even my wife needs to survive. So in looking at that and I think we will be pursuing an artificial route if we feel that maybe the past Government was responsible for tinkering with transfers and many other factors. I think key to this is the PSMD that is loafing to see how we can harmonise. Otherwise that is not a simple question to solve because it is linked to achieving the physiological needs of the human being and you do not choose. You cannot say, “No my wife I have been offered” – Maybe you have been a loafer for so many years. When you have been offered an opportunity, you cannot say, “No since we need to be together, I cannot go to Kaputa or any area.”

Madam Chairperson, I also want to talk about the issue of the so-called administrative transfers that are common in rural areas like Chilubi, Kaputa and many other areas. Some people who are seeking for employment in the Public Service, especially in the teaching and health professions –

Rev. Katuta: On a point of order, Madam.

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Member for Chilubi!

A point of order is raised. Ms Katuta, what is the point of order? We are behind time.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Chairperson, I apologise to my brother from Chilubi for disturbing his flow of thoughts.

Madam Chairperson is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to use bombastic words like ‘tinkering’ without explaining its meaning. I need your guidance on that bombastic word that he used, which is not found in any English Dictionary.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Can you cite the Standing Order that has been breached.

Rev. Katuta: I do not have my Standing Orders but I think it is Standing Order No.135.

The Chairperson: What does it talk about?

Rev. Katuta: Using a word that hon. Members of Parliament do not understand like ‘tinkering’.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Hon. Member, the Standing Order you have cited does not talk about the point of order you have raised. So, in that case –

Rev. Katuta: Madam Chairperson, it is Standing Order No. 65.

The Chairperson: Hon. Member, when you are raising a point of order, you should know the Standing Order that has been breached instead of looking for it here and there. So, what Standing Order has been breached?

Rev. Katuta: Standing Order No. 65, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: Which one specifically?

Rev. Katuta: It is Standing Order No. 65 (b).

Laughter

The Chairperson: Hon. Member, for the sake of time, your point of order is not admissible simply because you have not cited the right Standing Order that has been breached. However, the hon. Member on the Floor should explain or translate words that are not in the dictionary.

May the hon. Member for Chilubi continue.

Mr Fube: Madam Chairperson, I always use simple language. In any case, I confine myself to using simple language as much as possible.

Madam Chairperson, before I was distracted by my sister, I was talking about issues to do with public service work. I think I was talking about connecting debt swap to collective bargaining.

Madam Chairperson, I would appreciate if Her Honour the Vice-President when winding up debate, talks about the current establishment in the Civil Service. We need to know as a nation how many out of the 44,000 people who will be employed, will benefit from the K4,500 threshold on Pay-As-You-Earn.

Madam Chairperson, with those few words, I thank you.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Chairperson, thank you for allowing the people of Chienge to add a voice on this very important Motion on the Floor of the House.

Madam Chairperson, the Motion on the Floor of the House is very important but unfortunately, hon. Members have been given a short period to debate it. However, I would like to just say a few words.

Madam Chairperson, this is a very important ministry of the Government and it is the largest employer in our country. However, it is sad to see that this ministry is not performing to the expected standards. I say so because the recruitment of teachers has been frozen for many years and when teachers are promoted, nothing changes on their payslips. Further, some people who have served in the Civil Service for a long time are not getting promoted, yet those who come after them get promoted. So, the system in this ministry is not adding so much value to what is expected in the nation.

Madam Chairperson, the Government is the largest employer, but when it comes to employing, we see that most Zambians are left out because they do not have connections. The graduates, especially in Chienge who work in the Civil Service deserve to be promoted. It is quite painful to see somebody who works until retirement not get promoted even though there would be recommendations that he gets promoted. When somebody gets fired in the Civil Service, he continues getting a salary for many years. That is stealing from the people of Zambia. Why should somebody be fired and still get a salary for quite some time? So, I ask this ministry to pull up its socks. I know it is quite easy hiring someone than firing, but the system should change.

Madam Chairperson, there is too much bureaucracy in the ministry which has led to so much backlog of work as at now. We need to see frozen positions unfrozen. Salaries need to be looked into rather than have a senior teacher at Mtendere Primary School get the same salary. One can only act for six months and not ten years. So, the Permanent Secretary and his group at this ministry should pull up their socks. It is a constitutional right for every Zambian to get employed by the Government unlike what is prevailing currently. Since we have a New Dawn Government, let us see everything to be new dawn indeed. We do not want to see graduates looking for jobs when the Government can provide jobs for them.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you for giving the people of Chienge an opportunity to add a voice. However, we would like to see positions being unfrozen.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

The Vice-President: Thank you very much Madam Chairperson.

Rev. Katuta: What was that that was showing that –

The Chairperson: Can we have order! Hon. Member, switch off or mute your gadget. Her Honour the Vice-President, you can continue.

The Vice-President: Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

Madam Chairperson, I thank Mr Fube and Ms Katuta for the debate on this important budget estimate and they raised a number of issues. I appreciate that there is truly a link between the Civil Service and the rest of the Government. Mr Fube is concerned about what will be the collective agreement from the negotiations that are ongoing. I am sure they will take into consideration everything, except there is a lot of speculation as to what may happen in the economy. This New Dawn Government is very serious and it wants to improve the lives of people. So, they will negotiate within their power.

Madam Chairperson, I appreciate the other thing Mr Fube talked about. Basically, I interpret it as over-politicising the Civil Service or the Public Service, and this must stop. We have gone through that and I totally agree that people are cadres in many different ways.

We have to remember, Madam Chairperson, even though I do not want to draw you in this debate, that the expectation of your performance in your office is very important. However, when you bring cadreism in the performance of your office, then, you are a wrong person. This is the way it is. So, I request the civil servants or anybody in public office to act according to the stipulated duties in that office. They should not act political. The New Dawn Government is encouraging professionalism. We pray that by the end of the ten years of Hakainde Hichilema’s time in office, that will be a thing of the past because every professional will have to behave professionally.

Madam Chairperson, people being together in marriage is very important but people separate due to their personal decisions. However, sometimes, people are separated when the husband and wife are sent to different places and we have said that we will do everything possible to try and ensure that families stay together. However, if one decides to leave the other to go and work somewhere else because that is his or her priority, that becomes a little difficult. We cannot promise that we will deal with this matter 100 per cent.

Madam Chairperson, with regards to the Public Service Management Division employing people, I think the title speaks for itself. It has certain functions and I think we have looked at several services even in here. We have looked at the Correctional Service Commission, the Police Service Commission and we will look at the Teaching Service Commission. Those, basically, are the employers and this is management of the division.

Madam Chairperson, Ms Katuta spoke about people not being promoted in the Public Service. The Public Service Management Division looks at everything else but the commissions have their own duties and are in charge of promotions. So, maybe, we will spare it from this but we encourage it to work with the commissions and not to allow a person to act for ten years, because that is not acting anymore.

Madam Chairperson, we have heard the concerns about the Public Service Management Division but the others are not really its responsibility. I appreciate the comments and I thank the hon. Members for the support.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Vote 27 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 39 – (Smart Zambia Institute – K137,919,954).

The Minister of Technology and Science (Mr Mutati): Madam Chairperson, it is my esteemed pleasure to present the 2022 Budget Estimate for Vote 39, the Electronic Government Division, also known as the Smart Zambia Institute.

Madam Chairperson, the Electronic Government Division is charged with the responsibility of ensuring the effective co-ordination and implementation of an Electronic Government (e-Government). This is achieved through the provision of common digital platforms and systems to facilitate Government to citizen, Government to Government and Government to business services. The division derives its mandate from the Electronic Act No. 41 of 2021 and the Government Gazette No. 1123 of 2021.

Madam Chairperson, the House may recall that during the Official Opening of the First Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, underscored the need to mainstream digital revolution in our national programmes across all sectors for socio economic development. You may further wish to note that the digital transformation agenda by the New Dawn Government will enhance the potential to bring public services closer to the people to provide an opportunity for youth participation through Information and Communication Technology (ICT) innovations. This will be achieved by strengthening collaborations among the players in the ICT sector.

Madam Chairperson, the Government is very keen, through its National Digital Transformation Programme, to deliver an open Government that is accountable, transparent, and efficient and a representation of all citizens in the governance structure of our nation. Consequently, this will stimulate trust and confidence amongst stakeholders.

Madam Chairperson, before I present the policy statement for the e-Government, allow me to firstly highly the past progress and achievements made on key projects and programmes implemented during the fiscal year 2021 as well as priorities for 2022.

Madam Chairperson, during the fiscal year 2021, K100 million was allocated towards three keys programmes, namely the e-Government, the ICT system, and management and support services. The key achievement attained by the division during the fiscal year 2021 included but not limited to the following:

e-Government

Madam Chairperson, to deliver high impact digital services closer to businesses and citizens, the Government continued to add electronic services to the Government Service Bus. This is an integrated platform through which citizens, non-citizens, businesses access and utilise various electronic services offered by Government institutions and allow online payments for all public services consumed.

In 2021, ninety-four additional services were added bringing the cumulative total to 127. This has led to an increase in the collection of non-tax revenue and has provided access to services twenty four hours a day, seven days a week.

Electronic Government Act

Madam, through this House, the Government enacted the Electronic Government Act No.41 of 2021 to strengthen and streamline the implementation of electronic Government initiatives across the Public Service. This has necessitated the development of standards and guidelines to harmonise and coordinate effective use of (ICT) and enhance cost effectiveness and efficiency in the time taken to access Government services.

Change Management and Capacity Building

Madam Chairperson, capacity building and change management interventions in the utilisation of ICT for Civil Servants in all the twenty-nine Government ministries and ten provincial offices was conducted. Further, the division trained over 500 Civil Servants in ICT and digital literacy programmes in partnership with the United Nations Agency – International Telecommunication Union. The capacity building was aimed at establishing a culture of innovation, promoting best practices in the use of ICT systems and providing support to the Public Service.

Madam, the Smart Zambia Institute, through its mandate, is working to ensure the mainstreaming of e-services within society and to the citizens by enabling accessibility and usage of available ICT platforms.

Infrastructure

Madam Chairperson, the division continues to accelerate ICT infrastructure development and management across all Ministries, Provinces and Spending Agencies (MPSAs). A reliable ICT infrastructure forms the very foundation upon which digital services are delivered and guarantees high service availability and access. In this regard, during the year under review, a total of 80 MPSAs have been connected to the Government-wide area network bringing the total of interconnected public service institutions to a unified internet to 203. This has resulted in ease of communication, reduced need for travel through the use of digital collaboration tools as well as reduced cost of ICT Capex expenditure through the utilisation of shared platforms.

Madam, the division has also facilitated the installation of countrywide video conferencing facilities in twenty-eight ministries and constitutional offices in Lusaka, ten provincial ministry offices and twenty telepresence conference packages in selected colleges and schools in ten provinces to facilitate virtual meetings, data sharing and data collaboration. This has allowed the continuity of Government services during the peak of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Challenges

Madam Chairperson, the key challenge in the implementation of the 2021 Budget was the resistance to change, especially in accessing the e-services on the Government Service Bus. People’s mindsets need to change and embrace the new ways of conducting Government business. The high cost of capital projects was another challenge that hindered the roll-out of ICT infrastructure to the unserved and underserved areas.

Focus for 2022

Madam, the focus for 2022 will be to accelerate the co-ordination and implementation of common digital platforms that have a high impact on the delivery of digital services to citizens, businesses and the Government.

Madam Chairperson, the division takes due cognisance that the 2022-2024 Budget Call Circular has allocated a total of K138 million to Vote 39. This translates into K38 million representing a 38 per cent increase from the 2021 Budget allocation of K100 million.

Madam, pursuant to our desire to deliver enhanced public service delivery through digitisation, the division h        as allocated in the year 2022 as follows:

                     Programme                                           Amount (K)

                     ICT                                                      101,072,247

                     Electronic Government                          20,461,666

                     Management and Support                      16,386,041

Madam Chairperson, the following is the focus for 2022:

1. promote innovation and deploy smart solutions to improve productivity and efficiency of socio-economic activities;

1. integration and enhancement of secure ICT network connectivity infrastructure to unserved and underserved districts to reduce the digital divide;

1. deploy and integrate digital solutions that will enhance public service delivery to citizens, non-citizens, businesses and within Government;

1. promote open Government by enhancing electronic participation of key citizens; and

1. enhance mindset change for digital transformation and capacity building to improve ICT adoption.

Madam, there is need to improve e-Government policy reforms through a digital transformation strategy that will take care of emerging trends and customer requirements.

Madam Chairperson, in conclusion, the e-Government transformation agenda to attain a knowledge-based society and economy to better the lives of ordinary Zambians and bring the Government closer to its people is a bedrock for a digital economy.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Madam Chairperson, allow me to thank the hon. Minister for this very important statement with regard to the Smart Zambia Institute.

Madam, this is a non-controversial institution or division. The role Smart Zambia Institute plays in our quest to ensure that we migrate fully towards e-Governance cannot be overstated. We know the importance of the interface between Government agencies, the importance that Smart Zambia comes to play as Government interfaces with the business sector and the role that Smart Zambia plays as the Government interfaces with the citizens in its quest to ensure that there is improved delivery of goods and services.

Madam Chairperson, this is also important because it reduces the occurrence of leakages, as we have witnessed in the past, of classified documents or information to the general public. It goes to reaffirm timely, reliable and accurate data. This is very important if the citizenry or the general public is to believe in the integrity of the information coming from the Government. Sealing the leakages by way of migrating fully to e-governance becomes very important.

Madam, this is also very important as we move towards ensuring that we protect the environment. There must come a day when even the Yellow Book will only be in the form of a paperless document. We are living with one reality called climate change and in adapting to changing times, it becomes very important that this particular division needs more allocation. This is the gist of my submission.

Madam Chairperson, I take note that there has been increased allocation from 2021 to 2022, but looking at the mandate and the role that the Smart Zambia Institute plays in the future that we are getting into a country, there is need for us to invest more into it.

Madam, there is also need for the Government to consider transitioning this division into an agency because of the scope of work and the mandate it carries. If possible, expand on its mandate. As we promote innovation, etcetera, I would appeal that the Government seriously considers the need for this particular division to exist as an agency like Zambia Information and Communications Technology Authority (ZICTA).

Madam, with those few remarks, I support this particular non-controversial division because of the role it plays in the present and the future.

I submit, Madam Chairperson.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Chairperson, I just want to add a few words to the debate on the Smart Zambian Institute Vote. I heard the hon. Minister say that the Smart Zambia Institute is in each province. I want to speak on behalf of the people of Chienge who have been lagging behind in terms of development and technology. How will the Government interface with the people of Chienge when they are not privileged to know about this institute and that it exits at provincial level? Like I have lamented in other debates, in Chienge, we have difficulties with communication. Although we have towers in a few places, we are not where we should be in terms of technology. So, I am just wondering on behalf of many civil servants who tend to run away from Chienge instead of providing service to our people. They run away because Chienge is lagging behind.

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister spoke so well about the future of Smart Zambia Institute. Zambia should do things like other countries because we are in an era where everything is about technology. This is in relation to the interface that the Government can do with the people of Zambia, for example the birth certificates. Birth certificates should be given immediately a child is born by using the Smart Zambia Institute System. The issue of National Registration Cards (NRCs) –

Madam Chairperson, regarding civil servants or people who are looking for jobs in the Government, this is the way to go. Something should be developed in order for the Government to interface with the people of Zambia in that manner than people going to queue up at the Public Service Management Division (PSMD).

Madam Chairperson, I also believe that the Smart Zambia Institute can introduce the one stop kind of situation where you have the Ministry of Home Affairs connected to banks and schools. Everything should be done simultaneously so that when the police are looking for someone, it will be very easy to find them. This will help us to remove the fake passports which are produced in some constituency for my beloved brother, which I will not mention.

Madam Chairperson, we should take advantage of the Smart Zambia Institute and develop it further where everything should be done using either smart phones or other gadgets. This can only be achieved if we start using it and connecting all the ministries.

Madam Chairperson, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) that we are talking about can be disbursed automatically if we have software that can be developed by the Smart Zambia Institute. Then we can call it Smart Zambia. As it is right now, it is half baked. Let us have everything interconnected and it will eradicate a lot of things including corruption. If we have a system like that, then we will be saying, indeed, this institution is working.

I thank you.

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Chairperson, just as a preamble, let me start with my experience of China, just to justify that Information and Communication Technologies (ICTs) is vital. It is no longer a cost or a luxury. If well managed, it can enhance income. We have a lot of income leakages not only in Zambia but also in Africa; in the councils and ministries where money is collected but it does not get to the actual account which is Control 99.

Madam Chairperson, I presume maybe only about 60 per cent of the money that is collected for the Government ends up in Control 99. Most of it is lost along the way because of paper work. If it is for the council, it is even worse. I think money meant for the council; rates, taxes, parking fees, market fees and bus station fees, in my estimation what is collected and what ends up in the council coffers, is probably only 20 per cent. 80 per cent of it is leaked and pocketed. This has been a problem for Zambia. When I speak, I do not speak on partisan lines, I do so as a Zambian because these problems have been there since independence to date.

Madam Chairperson, the previous speaker also spoke about integrating with the police and the issuance of National Registration Cards (NRCs). The Patriotic Front (PF) Government did start working on this, and, indeed, we have seen some roads where cameras were installed. I said I would talk about my experience in China. What I noticed the last I was in China is that citizens of China now do not need an NRC or anything. All they need is their face to go anywhere. So, all they do is get to the bus or train station, put their face on a camera and it recognises them and they walk and money is automatically debited from their account. When they arrive, the fine –

Hon. Nkombo: Talk about the Wireless Fidelity (Wi-Fi) connection of Lusaka.

Mr Sampa: Hon. Nkombo, I am coming to that one. So, that means the system can know where you are at any point in time. However, if you have nothing to hide, then there is no problem. When it comes to money for the council, even in London, you know how it works. If you get onto Cairo Road, you pay a fine to the council. Most people end up parking their vehicles as far as Kafue then they jump on a train or bus because if they drive all the way into the Central Business District (CBD), they pay a fine. You do not pay by paper work or toll gates. Even toll gates are a problem. In Europe, it is smart system. Just when your car passes, your number plate is picked that you have entered ‘Cairo Road’ then you owe the council a certain amount, and it is automatically debited from your account.

Madam Chairperson, I just wanted to say that Smart Zambia is the way to go. It was well started and intended by the previous Government, but as they say, Government lifupa, everyone just comes akokotako aisha.

Madam Chairperson: Meaning?

Mr Sampa: Hon. Nkombo, echo chaamba kuti,

Laughter

Mr Sampa: Madam, that means the Government has been in existence since time immemorial. There was the United National Independence Party (UNIP), the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), the PF and now there is the United Party for National Development (UPND) and there will be, I do not know if it is PF or another party after. However, Government programmes are like a bone. It is a process. So, the PF started the Smart Zambia initiative and it enhanced it by appointing a director, the Deputy Secretary to the Treasury. Now, it is part of a full ministry under Hon. Mutati. This is to encourage you that the money of the nation lies in you capturing it.

Your area, including Smart Zambia, should be looked at as an opportunity to capture the lost revenue. Zambia is not poor, councils are not poor. It is just that monies are pocketed. Only if the system to collect it is electronic will we capture all the money. The hon. Minister should be warned that in going smart, he will receive a lot of resistance along the way from those who benefit at whatever level. Stop the paper work because it is receipts and they can be manufactured on Katondo Street or some constituency.

Madam Chairperson, as I conclude, allow me to say that so far, starting at a high level of Government, the Cabinet is now able to hold meetings virtually. I noticed yesterday, His Excellency the President attended a virtual meeting with the President of the United States of America (USA) President Bidden. Even here at Parliament, we are able to attend meetings virtually. So, money has been spent, but at the top level. My appeal is that as we go into the new year, the Government should look to cascade to the lower sector of our nation. Look to the schools; that primary school in Lunte, that bus station in Lunte, look at them and make them smart. What they need there is what we have here at Parliament, at Cabinet and at the ministries; we have free Wireless- Fidelity (Wi-Fi).

Madam Chairperson, as we go ahead, the Government should find ways of making sure that bus stops, markets and airports have free Wi-Fi. When you arrive at the airport in Europe, you will see that there is free Wi-Fi and you can connect and talk with everyone. Bus stations there also have free Wi-Fi. So, let us go to the libraries in primary schools. The era of books is gone. They have to be able to Google, look to buying them Ipads and giving them free Wi-Fi, it can be done. It is an investment that can only produce results if we start. It looks like it is a cost, but for me, that is one of the most important areas to make everything digital and smart. That way, we will go paperless and we can save trees since we will stop cutting them. Everything should be electronic.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Mutati: Madam Chairperson, let me thank Hon. Chanda, Hon. Katuta and Hon. Sampa for their valuable contribution to the debate. Let me just say that, in an overall sense, the key to the digital transformation that the Government is embarking on is to be able to achieve Government service delivery that eliminates or minimises the transaction cost and waste and in turn improves on Government revenue collection. That is the overall purpose. Now, in order to achieve this, one of the key issues that we must do from Government perspective, is to be able to integrate Government systems so that these systems talk to each other. That way, the system that has been developed for the Farmer Input Supply Programme (FISP) is able to talk to the Social Cash Transfer Scheme and empowerment. If these systems are not talking to each other, the potential for double-dipping is immense. So, the key to enable the integration of Government system is that we are working on a national electronic identification number. What this means is that every citizen will have a single electronic number and hopefully, facial recognition so that when you are interacting with the Government, it does not matter whether it is at the hospital or at the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA), once you key in your number, all your details will appear and you begin to interact. So, you do not fill in various forms with various details as a single citizen.

Madam Chairperson, for example, we have found that the number of people who are registered with the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) is at variance with what is at the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) and the simple reason is that we do not have an Identification Document (ID) number. So, the number is captured driven by intention but not by system and that is what we are hoping to eliminate by having a single ID. Now, how do the people of Chienge, for example, benefit? What we want to do is that Government services such as RTSA, land transaction and whatever we do in Government, sitting in Chienge, you can be able to transact without incurring the cost that you would ordinarily incur if you had to go to a Government office. On your phone, you will be able to transact for all Government services and therefore, the citizens and our people in Chienge will minimise that cost associated with movement. We are hoping that ultimately, we are going to terminate into a cashless society. By terminating into a cashless society, you need a digital ID. Once you have this eco-system, it means that even your revenue leakages become zero.

Madam Chairperson, the journey is on and we are good to get there.

I thank you, Madam.

Vote 39 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 25– (Local Government Service Commission – K5, 766,013,145)

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Madam Chairperson, thank you for according me this opportunity to deliver a policy statement in support of the 2022 budget for the Local Government Service Commission. The Commission is established under Article 288 of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016, to appoint, confirm, promote, transfer, regret, second, separate and discipline officers of the Local Government Service Commission in the name and on behalf of His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia as provided for under Article 185 of the Constitution.

Programme Implementation and Achievement for the Year 2021.

Madam Chairperson, the 2021 approved Budget in respect of Recurrent Departmental Charges for the Commission was at K2,891,005 which amount was released by the Treasury at 100 per cent. In the spirit of achieving more with less, the commission was able to implement the following activities and programmes. The commission was able to implement in accordance with its mandate the following:

1. The Revision of the 1996 Terms and Conditions of Service, Policies and Regulations

Madam Chairperson, in order to operationalise the Service Commissions Act No. 10 of 2016 and Statutory Instrument No.105 of 2020 in respect to Human Resource Management Reforms, the commission managed to revise the 1996 Conditions of Service for the Local Government Service and developed other non-legislative documents. The documents have since been approved and are ready for use. The documents include, inter alia, Terms and Conditions of Service for Local Government Service, Human Resource Management Guidelines and Procedures for Recruitment and Placement in Local Government Service, Grievance Handling Procedures for the Public Service and the Local Government Service, Disciplinary Code and Procedures for Handling Offences in the Public Service and Local Government Service, Code of Ethics for Public Service and Local Government Service;

1. Human Resource Management Reforms

In line with the human resource reforms, the Government is implementing in the public service based on decentralisation policy; the commission commenced the process of establishing Human Resource Management Committees in the local authorities as provided for under Section 33 of the Service Commissions Act No.10 of 2016. This activity is expected to be concluded in the first quarter of 2022. The Human Resource Management Committee thus established will be performing some delegated functions on behalf of the commission. This will ensure timely processing of human resources matters at local authority level.

1. Staff Recruitment, Placement, Confirmation and Promotion

Madam Chairperson, a qualified, skilled and competent workforce forms the bedrock for quality service delivery which is a key component for socio-economic development of any nation. In this regard, and in fulfilling its mandate, the commission continues to attract and recruit qualified and skilled staff for filling various positions in the local authorities in both service and support departments. Local authorities can now boast of having well qualified and skilled staff in all departments. Further, from January, 2021 to August, a total of 2,895 cases were processed in respect of appointments, confirmations, promotions transfers and study leave;

1. Staff Training and Development

Madam Chairperson, in order to ensure that staff in the local governance service have the necessary skills, expertise, qualifications and competences, the commission continued to encourage staff development. In this regard, the paid study both on council and self-sponsorship were granted during the period under review. The authority for paid study leave covered full time, part time as well as distance model of education or learning for both long and short term training. The commission’s ultimate goal is to ensure that staff are capacitated and are able to meet the job requirements and consequently improve their performance. Further, the commission continues to strengthen collaboration with training providers to ensure adequate production of graduates in designing of appropriate programmes relevant to the needs of the local authority.

1. Capacity Building Of Human Resource Practitioners

Madam Chairperson: Order, hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development.

 

(Debate adjourned)

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HOUSE RESUMED

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

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The House adjourned at 1257 hours until 0900 hours Tuesday, 14^th December, 2021

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