Wednesday, 12^th October, 2022

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER

ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I have received communication to the effect that in the absence of Her Honour the Vice-President, who is attending to other Government Business, the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, Hon. Jack J. Mwiimbu, MP, will act as Leader of Government Business in the House from today, Wednesday, 12^th October, 2022, until further notice.

I thank you.

EYE SCREENING EXERCISE

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I inform the House that the Ministry of Health and Vision Care Appasamy Eye Hospital have been granted permission to conduct a free comprehensive eye screening exercise for hon. Members of Parliament and staff. The exercise will be held from Thursday, 13^th to Friday, 21^st October, 2022, and coincides with the World Sight Day on 13^th October, 2022.

The aim of the exercise is to promote eye health through early detection and treatment of common eye disorders such as:

1. Corneal Scarring;
2. Refractive Errors;
3. Cataract;
4. Glaucoma; and
5. Hypertensive and Diabetic Eye Diseases.

The screening will be conducted in Committee Room 5, here, at Main Parliament Buildings, starting at 09:00 hours to 16:00 hours on all days except Fridays. On Fridays the exercise will run from 09:00 hours to 13:00 hours.

Hon. Members are encouraged to take advantage of this exercise and find time to visit the screening room.

I thank you.

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MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

MR KAPYANGA, HON. MEMBER FOR MPIKA, ON MR MWIIMBU, HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, ON RECLASSIFICATION OF THE KIDNAPPING OF THE THIRTEEN GIRLS AS GBV BY SPECIAL ASSISTANT FOR PRESS AND PUBLIC RELATIONS TO THE PRESIDENT

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.  

Mr Kapyanga: Thank you so much, Madam Speaker, for according me this opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance, pursuant to Standing Order No. 134.

Madam Speaker, a few days ago, the thirteen girls who were abducted or kidnapped by some criminal elements were rescued. In his efforts to comfort their families, His Excellency, the President, yesterday held a luncheon with the said girls. Later, his Special Assistant for Press and Public Relations, Mr Anthony Bwalya, issued a statement. In that statement, the kidnapping of the said girls has been reclassified as Gender-Based Violence (GBV). There is anguish amongst our women and citizens at large as the criminals are celebrating because a felony such as kidnapping or abduction has been reclassified as GBV.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, my matter of urgent public importance is directed to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal security who is today the Leader of Government Business in the House. Our nation needs to know what constitutes kidnapping, abduction or even GBV. In this case, the criminals were demanding ransom from the family members of the thirteen girls. How then is that GBV?

Madam Speaker, I seek your very serious indulgence in this matter.

MR CHANDA, HON. MEMBER FOR KANCHIBIYA, ON MR MPOSHA, HON. MINISTER OF WATER DEVELOPMENT AND SANITATION, ON WELLS DRYING IN KANCHIBIYA

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.  

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for according the people of Kanchibiya an opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance, pursuant to Standing Order No. 134.

Madam Speaker, there is a situation obtaining in Kanchibiya Constituency. Our wells are drying up and this is depriving our people of access to sources of clean water. In certain areas, this has seen a sharp rise in cases of dysentery, especially as it affects children under the age of five. In particular, the wards affected are: Munikashi Ward, Chinama Ward, Lubaleshi Ward, as well as Mbati Ward.

If this situation is not addressed, Madam Speaker, we are going to see continued cases of dysentery, which will result in the loss of lives. I seek your ruling, and I am directing this matter to the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation.

MR CHILANGWA, HON. MEMBER FOR KAWAMBWA, ON THE LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE, ON THE SPEEDY TRIAL IN THE HOUSE CONDUCTED FOR MR MUNIR ZULU, HON. MEMBER FOR LUMEZI

Mr Chilangwa (Kawambwa): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.  

Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, last week, this House was treated to a speedy trial, and the people of Lumezi have been calling me saying that for the next one month, they shall not have representation in the House.

Madam, the offence was allegedly committed by the hon. Member for Lumezi, Mr Munir Zulu, on Wednesday and by Friday, a decision was made. The people of Lumezi are wondering: Did the Committee deliberate on that issue? The people of Lumezi are also wondering what could be a worse insult between shaving and fondling because we were treated in this House to a scenario where the word “fondling” was used and nothing was done.

Madam Speaker, the people of Lumezi and the Zambians at large are asking: “Do we have a dual system of justice in that Parliament?” Some people can be insulted, people can be called rats, people can be called boys and cockroaches, but in no time we have a speedy trial for one of our own and it is all over the internet. People are wondering.

Madam Speaker, this urgent point is on the Leader of Government Business in the House or the one representing her. Is this House in order to have two ways of dealing with things? Some insults are considered more insulting than others while others can just be glossed over.

Madam Speaker, I need your serious indulgence.

MR JAY E. BANDA, HON. MEMBER FOR PETAUKE CENTRAL, ON MR MPOSHA, HON. MINISTER OF WATER DEVELOPMENT AND SANITATION, ON LACK OF WATER IN URBAN AREAS OF PETAUKE

Mr Jay E. Banda (Petauke Central): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Jay E. Banda: Thank you, Madam Speaker, for giving the good people of Petauke this opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance. The matter is directed to the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation.

Madam Speaker, the good people of Petauke in Nyika Ward, which is an urban area, and the people specifically in Showgrounds, Tasala, Hillside, Fairview and Garden have had no water from his ministry because of calcium. Right now, they do not have even boreholes where they can get water in the urban part of Petauke Central Constituency. 

Madam Speaker, many people in the communities right now are affected by typhoid, diarrhoea and dysentery because of the lack of water. The question to the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation is: Is he in order to sit quietly whilst my people who sent me here to come and deliberate matters have this problem?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you so much. I will start with the issue that was raised by the hon. Member for Mpika which touched on the thirteen girls who were kidnapped. They were hosted yesterday at State House, I do not know whether it was lunch or dinner, and this event was followed by a statement by Mr Anthony Bwalya, which said that the whole issue was considered as Gender-Based Violence (GB). The hon. Member wants to know the difference between the two.

Already from what I can see, this is not an urgent matter of public interest. The hon. Member wants to know the difference so the hon. Member can raise a question and address it to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security who is going to answer him or tell him the difference between the two so that he can judge whether what Mr Bwalya issued was correct or indeed it was kidnapping. So this matter does not fall among matters of urgent public importance.

The hon. Member for Kanchibiya is complaining of wells that are drying up and this has caused shortage of water in certain wards in his constituency. I will combine this one with the issue that has been raised by the hon. Member for Petauke Central since they are talking about the same issue, which is shortage of water. So for these two, I request the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation to come and issue a ministerial statement to inform the public how this issue will be sorted out for Kanchibiya and Petauke Central. That will be next week on Wednesday.

We move on to the issue that was raised by the hon. Member for Kawambwa. This issue has been misplaced, hon. Member for Kawambwa, as it has been raised on an issue relating to the Business of the House, which is not a public matter. This is according to Standing Order No. 134. Therefore, we cannot admit this as a matter of urgent public importance.

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QUESTION FOR ORAL ANSWER

WHEN RELOCATION OF KALUMBILA DISTRICT ADMINISTRATIVE CENTRE WILL BE DONE

63. Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga) asked the Vice-President:

1. when Kalumbila District Administrative Centre will be relocated to Kalumbila in order to spread development in the area, evenly; and
2. what the cause of the delay in relocating the Centre is.

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, as the question has been overtaken by events, I would like to withdraw it.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member says the question has been overtaken by events. So, the hon. Member, perhaps, should be given permission by the House to withdraw it.

Question put and agreed to. Leave granted.

Question, by leave, accordingly withdrawn.

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MOTION

IMPROVED CONDITIONS OF SERVICE FOR COUNCILLORS

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House urges the Government to improve the conditions of service for Councillors.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, I thank you for permitting me to move this Motion aimed at urging the Government to improve the conditions of service for Councillors, based on the principle of equity, which takes into account the roles that Councillors play under devolved governance and the hardships that they have had to endure in complementing our work and that of the Central Government in steering development and delivery of services in rural and urban districts.

Before I proceed, Madam Speaker, let me first take this opportunity to mention that at the dawn of this year, hon. Colleagues from your right brought a very important Emoluments Commission Bill to this august House, which we debated and passed into law. It is only fair that the people of Kanchibiya congratulate the Government, through the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development and the hon. Minister of Justice, for such a bold step. Equally, I congratulate this session of Parliament, led by the Hon. Madam Speaker, for enacting this Bill, which was assented to by the Republican President, His Excellency, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, on 8^th April, 2022.

Madam Speaker, since the assent of our Constitution of Zambia on 5^th January, 2016 by our former Republican President, His Excellency, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, the matter of emoluments of Councillors alongside their status in our governance system has remained a subject of wide debate and earnest appeals by over 1,400 Councillors from across the country.

Madam Speaker, as you may be aware, this House passed the Emoluments Act No. 1 of 2022, which operationalised the Emoluments Commission, as established by Article 232 of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016. For avoidance of doubt, the Emoluments Act No. 1 of 2022 provides for, among other things, a harmonised framework to govern the determination and management of emoluments for chiefs and officers in State organs and institutions. For all intents and purposes, Councillors are included in the Act.

Now that the Emoluments Commission has been established, it remains for the Government to do the needful with regard to improving the conditions of service for our Councillors.

Madam, in 2016, just before the elections, the Constitutional Court made a very important determination on the status of Councillors in a petition that was brought before it. It made a finding of fact, on page J24, that Councillors fall under the Executive arm of Government to which they report and perform Executive functions. With your permission, I will lay the decision of the court on the Table of this House. The same decision is available on the portal of the Zambia Legal Information Institute.

Madam Speaker, shortly after the election of Councillors under the Constitution, as amended, the Councillors made an appeal to the Government to consider giving them befitting entitlements like other members of the Executive, such as public officers and constitutional holders, as required by Article 264 of the Constitution of Zambia. For the benefit of doubt, Article 264, in part, reads that the emoluments of a councillor shall be determined by the Emoluments Commission, as prescribed.

Madam, the word ‘emoluments’ is defined in Article 266 of the Constitution of Zambia as including:

1. salaries;
2. allowances;
3. benefits and rights that form an individual’s remuneration for services rendered; and
4. pension benefits or other benefits on retirement.

Madam Speaker, at the peak of these calls, the Government, through the then Minister of Local Government, presented a ministerial statement to this august House on Thursday, 2^ndMarch, 2017, in which the then Government gave an excuse for not giving Councillors emoluments.

With your permission, Madam Speaker, allow me to quote the Government’s position on this matter as it stood, then, before the commission was operationalised. On page three, the Government stated as follows:

“On the question of whether Councillors are entitled to allowances or salaries, Article 264 of the Constitution provides that the emoluments of Councillors shall be determined by the Emoluments Commission, as prescribed. Article 266 states that the emoluments include ‘salaries, allowances, benefits and rights that form an individual’s remuneration for services rendered, including pension benefits or other benefits on retirement’. It is noteworthy, however, that the Emoluments Commission has not yet been operationalised as the law to operationalise it has not yet been passed. Once the commission is operationalised, it will be responsible for approving the Councillors’ emoluments.”

Madam Speaker, now that the commission has been operationalised, it is only prudent that this House urges the Government to provide for further emoluments for Councillors, who are members of the Executive arm of the Government, as required by the Constitution.

Currently, Madam Speaker, what are Councillors, who work alongside us in our constituencies, getting as emoluments? Shortly after the ministerial statement I referred to, the Minister responsible for Local Government at the time issued Statutory Instrument No. 26 of 2017 on 17^thMarch, 2017, which provided for the fees our Councillors get.

Madam, across the board, Councillors from city councils, municipal councils and town and township councils only get K3,000 as a monthly fee and K350 as a sitting allowance. Councillors who live 86 km from a Civic Centre or Council Chamber are only entitled to a transport allowance of K300 to get to the Civic Centre or Council Chamber and return home. As a councillor at Lusaka City Council, you must be living between Munali Hills and Mazabuka to get this kind of transport refund, otherwise, you are only entitled to K60 to and from, if you live anywhere within the district.

Madam Speaker, you can imagine Councillors who live in our rural constituencies with difficult terrain like Kanchibiya and vast constituencies like Luangeni. What are we telling these Councillors: That they are not entitled to improved quality of life for having been elected as Councillors to serve our people, together with us? I am making a clarion call to the New Dawn Administration and this august House that collectively, we can make a difference in the lives of these Councillors by improving their conditions of service.

Madam Speaker, Councillors across the country were elected alongside the elections of the Republican President and ourselves, as Members of Parliament. These Councillors were subjected to the same conditions as all other elected officials. Upon declaration of their intention to contest elections, those who had aspirations to look after their families, through acquiring a Government job, had extinguished their right to Public Service, as Article 184 of our Constitution kicked in.

Madam Speaker, Councillors who have been elected are finding themselves in a very difficult situation where they cannot be employed by the Civil Service because of their political affiliation, but also cannot get all emoluments befitting their status, as civic leaders, while other elected officials continue to get emoluments, which includes gratuity. In this august House, at such an opportunity, we have the responsibility to do what is right.

Madam Speaker, our law has prevented Councillors from pursuing any dream into Public Service. This means that despite being qualified, they cannot legitimately earn an income in Public Service for as long as they remain Councillors. On the other hand, we have allowed a situation where Councillors work for a monthly allowance as though they are casual workers. As we speak, there are about eighteen pending local government elections and the majority of them have been triggered by resignations by those who are getting jobs in the Public Service. I will lay this evidence on the Table.

Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Administration and this august House can act today by doing what is right for Councillors since they serve alongside us in our constituencies. Councillors, under the devolved government are very key in the delivery of services to our people, especially at a time when the Government has provided for more allocation and greater scope of activities to be funded by the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Without overemphasising, Councillors are frontline leaders in service delivery, especially in rural areas where local people see Government in their councils and Councillors.

Madam Speaker, countries such as Australia have gone further to enact the Constitution of the Local Government Remuneration Commission, which considers these matters on the premise of a decrease or increase in the consumer index or in an increase in the wage price index.

Madam, in conclusion, John F. Kennedy, the former United States of America (US) President said:

“And when at some future date the high court of history sits in judgement on each of us ... our success or failure ... will be measured by the answers to four questions.

First, were we truly men of courage?

Secondly, were we truly men of judgement?

Third, were we truly men of integrity?

Finally, were we truly men of dedication?”

Madam Speaker, I call on all hon. Members of this august House to support this important non-controversial Motion.

I beg to move.

Thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Wamunyima: Now, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I would, first of all, like to thank your office for allowing me to second this non-controversial Motion. I also thank the mover of this Motion, the hon. Member for Kanchibiya.

Madam, this Motion is non-controversial and non-political in the sense that as it comes to this House, we speak for that Independent Councillor in Nyika Ward, Petauke. As it comes to this House, we speak for that Democratic Party (DP) Councillor in Nanjucha Ward in Nalolo. As it comes to this House, we speak for that National Restoration Party (NAREP) Councillor in Chibande Ward in Lumezi. As it comes now, we speak for that United Party for National Development (UPND) Councillor in Imwiko Ward in Mongu. As it comes now, we speak for that Patriotic Front (PF) Councillor in Mpika, Musakanya Ward. Therefore, it is a holistic Motion. It is not political.

Madam, as I stand here, the mover said we have eighteen pending by-elections caused by Councillors resigning from the civic duty, prescribed under Article 156 of the Constitution, to go and teach. This anomaly of the salary of a councillor and poor conditions of service is something that the New Dawn Government has inherited, but given that it has now passed the Emoluments Act, it grants the opportunity to change the narrative. Therefore, the excuse that we are waiting for an Emoluments Act has fallen short.

Madam Speaker, I bring it to your attention that every hon. Member of Parliament, who is elected here, cannot effectively work without Councillors. Councillors are the frontline workers and service deliverers. Regarding education at district level, when we talk about the concept of decentralisation, in a full council meeting, the District Education Board Secretary, the District Agriculture Officer and the District Health Officer should be there. It is Councillors who bring the concerns of the people at district level. Therefore, it becomes an anomaly for such an important role to have poor conditions of service.

Madam Speaker, when we look at our friends in Namibia, a councillor’s monthly emolument is 40,000 Namibian Rands. A councillor can even access a car loan. If we are to change the narrative here, Councillors can even monitor the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) projects because they stay in the wards.

Madam Speaker, half of the time, hon. Members of Parliament are here and Councillors are in the wards. Therefore, the time has come for us to be fair and be honest. How can an elective office be described as part time? When you are elected you, you have a permanent five-year mandate. Therefore, this Motion should also be a precursor to amend the Local Government Act of 2019, which is short-changing councillor’s conditions of service.

Madam Speaker, in Kenya, Councillors get about US$500, which can go up to US$1000, just in allowances before the salary. These are Councillors who are motivated to properly deliver. In this country, we have Councillors staying in wards, which are the size of constituencies. I will give an example of a ward in my constituency, Shekela Ward. For one to leave Shekela Ward to bring resolutions made by the Ward Development Committee (WDC) to Mooyo in Nalolo, there is completely no means of transport. A councillor cannot even afford a motor bike, yet we are saying that the WDC’s are making resolutions. The WDC’s do not get any allowances. Therefore, in the context of service delivery, when we have de-motivated Councillors, we will have poor service delivery. When we have poor service delivery, we will have a problem at grass root level.

Madam Speaker, therefore, I urge each and every well meaning hon. Member of Parliament to support this non-political Motion because everyone, including all the Councillors in the whole country, is watching. We cannot have a situation where a councillor earns K3,000. With an enhanced CDF, how do we expect proper capacity and support in the implementation of these projects if Councillors struggle to move within their wards?

Madam Speaker, the time has come for us, in this House, to collectively stand together and look at this Motion. We know that when the Patriotic Front (PF) came into power, Councillors used to get K750 as an allowance but without a salary. Subsequently, the improvement to K3,000 happened in the PF regime. However, it does not adjust to the times. The Jesuit Centre for Theological Reflection (JCTR) has just released a report on the Basic Needs and Nutritional Basket (BNNB) and it stands at K9,000 per month.

Madam Speaker, because of poor conditions of service, we now have issues of houses being demolished. For an individual to make ends meet, one is subjected to participate in illegality. The illegal allocation of land begins at the council. We can cure some of these things that we feel are a consequence of criminality and in some way, a consequence of poor conditions of service.

Therefore, Madam Speaker, I urge all hon. Members of Parliament to consider that this is a topical and realistic issue. It has nothing to do with hon. Members on your left or right, but it has everything to do with delivery. It is only in the interest of all hon. Members of Parliament that in their five-year mandate, they effectively deliver.

Madam Speaker, how can we have a situation where, in some areas, our Councillors even struggle to attend to basic community needs such as attending funerals? A councillor has to participate in providing resources. This is a non-controversial Motion. I will be shocked, if not bamboozled, if it is not supported.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, the list is very long. So, let us use our time well by avoiding repetitions. I have received lists. So, I will be alternating so that we cover the representation in this House.

Mr Samakayi (Mwiniluga): Madam Speaker, like my hon. Colleague has said, this is a non-controversial Motion that requires being supported by everyone. We owe a duty of care to our Councillors because we work with them. In our absence when we are in Lusaka, they are the ones who we send to get certain information that makes us perform our duties even here in Parliament.

Madam Speaker, Councillors are representatives of people in a local assembly. Therefore, they do a lot of work. They are a link between the community and the Government. They are a link, in some cases, between the community and hon. Members of Parliament. We use them to mobilise communities for development and service delivery in most cases. Therefore, it is very important that the people that we work with are properly remunerated and well looked after.

Madam Speaker, like my hon. Colleagues have said, last time they were getting K700 and then it was increased to K3,000. They have been pushing for improved conditions of service for quite some time, but the Government that was there before could not improve the conditions of service. It was hiding in the Emoluments Commission, which it did not operationalise.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, this kind of irresponsibility is not right. When the people of Zambia say how they are going to move, the Government has a responsibility to ensure that it implements what is contained in the Constitution. Playing hide-and-seek with the people is not correct. It is very irresponsible for any Government to do that.

I am happy to say that the New Dawn Government will be able to opperationalise the Emoluments Commission, which includes improving conditions of service for our dear Councillors.

Madam Speaker, politics have changed. As hon. Members of Parliament, we suffer when we go round our constituencies because people ask for drinks and other things.  It is the same things that Councillors go through. They cannot manage with the meagre K3,000 they get. It is important that they are appropriated something from the Budget so that, together, we can try to help our people.

Madam Speaker, I do not wish to bore you with a long debate because I believe that with this Motion, we are pushing an open door. The New Dawn Government has already agreed. The Government’s position is very clear, as it has brought the enactment of the Emoluments Commission. Saying it is going to enact legislation regarding the Emoluments Commission is evidence enough that the Government is going to heed that request that has come forth and has been pending for a very long time.

Madam Speaker, I end here. I thank you.

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, thank you very much. Allow me to thank the mover of this Motion –

Interruptions

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, if I answer to such, you will say I am not –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, can we give him chance to debate.

Mr Mutale: The trouble is you like trivialising matters.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, can we, please, give him chance. Hon. Member, you may continue.

Mr Mutale: You know me.

Mr Mwiimbu: Are you alright?

Mr Mutale: Ba Jack Mwiimbu, you know me.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Chitambo, can you, please, continue with the debate.

Ms Mulenga: He is Hon. Remember. You will remember him. Mukamwishiba.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, I was thanking the mover and the seconder of the Motion. Indeed, these are the kinds of Motions that we should be having on the Floor of the House; those that are non-controversial and speak for the people. Furthermore, through this House, the people of Zambia can, indeed, benefit.

Madam Speaker, my problem is that this Motion is non-controversial and I am wondering why our hon. Colleagues want to trivialise it by not ...

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mutale: ... accepting what other people did to improve the conditions of the Councillors. It is on record that Councillors were only getting K750 and the money was increased to K3,000. I think –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

We can hear a lot of noise. We want to give each one of you, those who are interested in debating, a chance to do so. Can we, please, maintain silence so that we move faster.  If we keep on interjecting, we are losing out on time. So, can we allow the hon. Member who is on the Floor to debate without making noise.

Hon. Member, you may proceed.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, I know they are happy that I am debating.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, I was saying that it is good to appreciate those who have done work before you, if they did a good thing. It is also good to note that one day, you will also need that same appreciation when you leave the office or job. So, I just want to encourage my hon. Colleagues to appreciate what was done in the past so that when we add more to this, we shall also be appreciated in future. 

Madam Speaker, for the programme of decentralisation to work, we need our Councillors to also be getting something better from our Government. Like many have said, our Councillors have a lot of work to do in the wards. If you ask me, they are the chief mourners, they attend to churches, funerals, pregnant mothers and a lot of things at household level.

 Madam Speaker, I will speak on their need to have transport. It will be very important for them to have transport. It can be classified what kind of vehicles that can be bought for their use. We should also look at issues of gratuity. Let them also be knocking off with something so that they do not regret being Councillors. They are being robbed of almost everything because people in rural areas think that as long as one is a Councillor, they have to feed almost everyone in the ward.

Madam Speaker, the other point which I want to put across is that we normally use these Councillors for political expediency. The Councillors are easily given money by us, senior politicians, to defect because of the kind of monies they get. It is very easy to buy off a Councillor with a figure of, maybe, K10,000 or so because they do not have such kind of monies.

Madam Speaker, what I am putting across is real. We can save a lot of money for this country by avoiding by-elections if Councillors had better conditions of service because it would be very difficult for them to be given money, thus, making them resign from their positions.

Madam Speaker, Councillors are more like bosses at councils, but you find that they get the lowest monies in comparison to the civil servants in the councils. This is very unacceptable. If Councillors are called bosses for the councils, let them also get what they deserve. Let them also get and feel that they deserve more.

Madam Speaker, we can also provide them some kind of allowance which can enable them to proceed for further studies and so on and so forth. If their allowances are improved, we can also provide them a chance to borrow from banks because the improved allowances will serve as security.

Madam Speaker, being a Councillor is not as easy as we might think. Some of the conflicts we have in some of the constituencies are caused by Councillors wanting to become Members of Parliament in order to have a feel of what they get. So, if their salaries are improved, we can have a harmonised kind of working culture.

Mr Mufalali: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised. 

Mr Mufalali: Madam Speaker, my point of order is pursuant to Article 204(2)(u), which states that: 

“A member shall resume his or her seat as soon as the presiding officer rises to speak or calls out ‘order’ or “a Point of Order is raised.”

Madam Speaker, when you called out a point of order, the hon. Member, who is on the Floor, kept on standing while you were putting emphasis on the order of the House.

Madam Speaker, is he, therefore, in order to continue in the way and manner that he has been handling himself by standing while you were calling the House to order? Under Standing Order 204 (3) the punishment is as follows:

“A member who breaches a rule of etiquette may be sent out of the House for one sitting day.”

Madam, is he in order to continue standing –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Can we give him chance to complete his point of order.

Mr Mufalali: Thank you so much, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, the punishment under Standing Order 204 (3) is as follows:

“A member who breaches a rule of etiquette may be sent out of the House for one sitting day.”

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member on the Floor in order not to sit when you were calling the House to order?

I seek your ruling, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, let us try to observe the rules or issues that are in the Standing Orders. There is no exception. When the presiding officer says, “Order”, even if there was somebody who was on the Floor, that person is supposed to sit down and only resume when the presiding officer has stopped talking. So, can we, please, observe the rules. Of course, the hon. Member who was on the Floor at the time when I said, “Order!” but remained standing, was definitely out of order and I am sure he is going to observe that next time.

Hon. Member for Chitambo, you may continue.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, I want to thank you and let me end here.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Petauke this opportunity to add their voice to the debate on this non-controversial Motion. I want to also thank the mover and seconder of the Motion.

Madam Speaker, this Motion is non-controversial because it talks about Councillors countrywide. It also talks about the traditional leaders, who are the chiefs, countrywide. When the Councillors were taking oath this year at the councils, all the chiefs were also asked to take oath and they are also entitled to the same conditions of service as the Councillors.

Madam Speaker, I will start with 1964 when Dr Kaunda and his Cabinet constituted the Zambian Constitution –

Mr Tayali: Who told you?

Interruptions

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, am I protected? These people with degrees are just saying “hear, hear!” in the background, instead of them indicating so that they can debate.

Laughter

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, we need to check their degrees. Maybe, they are fake.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You can sit down, hon. Member.

Can we, please, not debate while seated and can we allow the hon. Member on the Floor to debate. The people from his constituency are listening, especially his Councillors. Can you, please, give him chance. Can we all be seated in silence so that the people will be able to pick out what is being said in this House.

So, the hon. Member will continue.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, when Dr Kenneth Kaunda, may his soul rest in peace, was drafting the Constitution of Zambia, said that the Constitution was to indicate that Councillors were supposed to be volunteers. He was, indeed, correct and I still support that provision because that time, Councillors used to report at the council only four times a year, which is on a quarterly basis.

Madam Speaker, in 1991, the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government, under Dr Chiluba, created a slush fund. Councillors now had increased activities at the council and they improved, just like technology has been improving. A slush fund was created and the Councillors now had to do more work because they acted as deputy hon. Members of Parliament. When the hon. Members of Parliament are, here, in Parliament from Tuesday to Friday, the Councillors were working on behalf of the hon. Members of Parliament.

Madam Speaker, in 2011, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, under the leadership of Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, may his soul rest in peace, increased the allocation for the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) –

Hon. Members: CDF?

Mr J. E. Banda: Let me debate.

Madam Speaker, I need to be protected from these people with degrees.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, can you, please, give him a chance to debate. From the look of things, the way I have assessed this Motion, we are all supporting the Motion.

Hon. Members: Yes!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: So, maybe we should not be wasting time debating because we know what the outcome will be. We just wanted to give you an opportunity so that the Councillors out there see that you are caring for them through your debate. However, you keep on interjecting and disturbing the person on the Floor. So, should we continue or wind up?

Interruptions

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for guiding these hon. Members.

Madam Speaker, in 2011, the PF Government, under Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, may his soul rest in peace, increased the CDF from K750,000 to K1.6 million. This made the Councillors to have more work because they had more activities in the council for development. Management of most of the developmental activities was moved from the Central Government to the district councils, managed under the CDF.

Mr Tayali: Who told you?

Mr J. E. Banda: Hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics, you are asking who told me? Go and Google. Go and research. I am sure your degree is not working.

Laughter

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, after the money for developmental projects was increased, Councillors had many things to do, as they had to monitor projects and do other community work across the wards instead of reporting to the council quarterly.

Madam Speaker, the Councillors were also asked to start chairing committees, such as the one on Finance, Lands and Planning, which looks at the issue of plots, among other functions.

Madam speaker, between 2016 and 2021, we saw the hon. Member of Parliament for Matero and a Councillor exchange bad words on social media because of a lack of empowerment for Councillors. The story was all over social media.

Madam Speaker, in 2021, under the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government, Mr Hakainde Hichilema increased the CDF from K1.6 million to K25.7 million, which made the Councillors to have more work.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, many projects that were under the Central Government are now under the council.

Mr J. E. Banda coughed.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Quality!

Drink some water.

Mr J. E. Banda drank some water.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. PF Member: Koseni, honourable, koseni!

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, many projects are now under the council through the CDF, which makes the Councillors have more projects to monitor. It is not only the Councillors, but also the chiefs across the country, because chiefs are also stakeholders who monitor projects. Those people deserve salaries apart from allowances.

Madam Speaker, due to a time limitation, I end here.

Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Quality!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

We move on.

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to debate the Motion on the Floor of the House, which is on improving the conditions of service for Councillors.

Mr Mpundu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mpundu: Madam Speaker, is the House in order to allow debate on a Motion that is already being supported by both sides of the House when we could as well serve the time for other progressive matters?

I seek your guidance, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Hon. Member for Nkana, can you cite the Standing Order that has been breached?

Mr Mpundu: Madam Speaker, Standing Order No. 131 refers to points of procedure, and my point of procedure is on why we should continue to waste time on a Motion that is already being supported by both sides of the House, because that leads to repetition, as your guided.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you, hon. Member.

I hope you heard what I said earlier. However, the most important thing is that we have an Order Paper that we have to follow. The people out there do not know what is on the Order Paper. What they know is that right now, we are debating a Motion that is on the Floor. Further, we have not even concluded that everybody in this Chamber supports the Motion. So, we are going to proceed. At a later time, we will close this Motion, and even the people out there will be able to follow the proceedings. The only difference is that we are not going to have all the people who have indicated debate; we are just going to select a few and close the Motion.

Hon. Member for Bweengwa, you may continue with your debate.

Mr Michelo: Madam Speaker, let me also react to –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Can we minimise the movements in the House.

Mr Michelo: Madam Speaker, my brother might be right in saying that we cannot waste too much of our time debating a Motion that almost the entire House has already agreed to. However, the Patriotic Front (PF) hon. Members can just flip.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Michelo: They can change and want to shoot this Motion down.

Laughter

Mr Michelo: You know how PF hon. Members behave at times. They may say something just now and, after one minute, shoot this Motion down.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Michelo: So, let me proceed with my debate.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Interruptions

Mr Michelo remained upstanding.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Can you resume your seat, hon. Member.

Laughter

Mr Michelo resumed his seat.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, the rules of the House are that we cannot debate ourselves. We know that the Motion on the Floor is: “That this House Urges the Government to Improve the Conditions of Service for Councillors.” That is all, and it is straightforward. Why are we trying to bring in things that are not related to this Motion? Can we, please, be focused. Otherwise, I will invite the hon. Ministers of Education, Information and Media, and Local Government and Rural Development to respond.

Hon. Member for Bweengwa, continue with your debate.

Mr Michelo: Thank you for your advice, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, the Motion on the Floor of this House is really non-controversial. If you look at how Councillors are suffering in their wards in constituencies we come from, I think, every normal human being in the country, including members of the PF, my brothers and sisters there (pointing to the Opposition Bench), will definitely agree with me that they are doing a lot in our constituencies when we are here performing other duties.

Madam Speaker, this is a listening Government, and our Republican President is a listening man. From the time we won the elections and formed Government, the President has been saying that we are going to try and improve the conditions for every citizen in this country, and Councillors are included in that.

Madam Speaker, for people to qualify to become Councillors, they need to have a Grade 12 Certificate just like Council Chairpersons/Mayors and Members of Parliament. So, since Members of Parliament, Council Chairpersons and Mayors are paid, who are we to deny Councillors that condition of service? By the way, the Emoluments Commission is already looking at this issue, and I am even surprised that this Motion has been moved when officers under the UPND are already working on something.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Michelo: Madam Speaker, this is a listening Government and the President is here to improve the conditions of service for almost every worker in this country. So, we are going to support this Motion even though it has come when the UPND Government is already working on this matter.

Madam Speaker, we have a President who is caring. Further, Articles 264 and 265 of the Constitution of Zambia mean that elected Councillors, just like public officers like Judges, should be paid a salary, not an allowance only. Article 266 of the Constitution defines emoluments of public officers as including salaries, allowances, benefits and rights that form an individual’s remuneration for services rendered, including pension benefits or other benefits on retirement. Other legal provisions include the Emoluments Act, No. 1 of 2022, which provides for, among other things, a harmonised framework to govern the determination and management of emoluments for chiefs and officers in a State organ and State institutions, which includes Councillors.

I think, Madam Speaker, for me to not waste too much of your time, or even bore the hon. Members of Parliament and the public at large, let me say that we cannot shoot down this Motion. Instead, we support it because our Councillors are the leaders of tomorrow. We are going to support our Councillors, be they UPND, PF or Independent, and we are going to support this Motion so that the Government can look after our citizens diligently.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima): Madam Speaker, I sincerely thank the mover of the Motion. I think, he is doing a commendable job both here and elsewhere. I also thank the seconder of the Motion for seconding a good Motion.

Madam Speaker, I just want to say that we could have been somewhere today had we done these things when they were supposed to be done. Actually, I stand here with a heavy heart to say that the things that we are doing now could have done five years ago after being provided for in the 2016 Constitution. If we forget the lessons of history, we are bound to repeat the mistakes. This reminds us, as the Government, that our attitude to running the country should not be like that of those who ran the country in the past ten years.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, we all know that we stay with Councillors. Further, we have our Constitution. However, we could not just pass an Act to operationalise it. Then along comes a President of the Republic of Zambia who says we should not be unconstitutional in the way we do certain things. Some of the things are already in the Constitution. Surely, how can it be difficult to pass an Act that does not require a two-thirds majority? Then, the law was operationalised, and all of us know that the Emoluments Commission has been put in place. That shows the New Dawn Government was, and still is, serious.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, maybe, we have forgotten. However, my colleague, Hon. Sunday Chanda, will recall that – It is not that whenever we do not agree with a given Motion, it is out of spite; we usually have reasons for that. Sometimes, we could be planning to do something the next week, but somebody moves a Motion here. Sometimes, that is done to show spite to us. However, we will not behave the way our colleagues used to behave; a noble Motion was moved here on reinstating meal allowances, but they shot it down. Then another Government came and introduced the meal allowance. That is how normal governments behave.

Madam Speaker, I am happy to say that our Councillors throughout the country will be able to work. Sometimes, it is very difficult. As a lecturer of motivation, I feel very sad because when people who work very hard look at what they get, they become demoralised. My hon. Colleagues will agree with me that in many constituencies, they are the Councillor and Council Chairperson. Every time, the people want to call upon us, and it becomes difficult for us to go and usurp the Councillor’s work. However, our constituents think that the person they have to go to all the time is their Member of Parliament. So, instead of working here, some people want us to go to wards, yet we have roles to play here, including passing laws and the Budget, and we spend most of our time here. For example, this Meeting will run from September to December. However, if a Councillor is motivated to work hard, many your constituents will not say that their Member of Parliament has gone for good; they will not say that because the Councillor will work in accordance with the Constitution.

Madam Speaker, the bedrock to Councillors’ performance is how they are motivated. So, this Motion and what the Government has already put in place make the dove’s tail, and the Emoluments Commission will be able to work out issues in accordance with the law. It is unfortunate that we heard here that because of Councillors’ getting very little, some politicians were buying them; ...

Ms Sefulo: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: ... human beings were reduced to being bought like cabbages, tomatoes or other commodities. However, even if a person is lower than us, their dignity is not lost. They are still human beings, and they must be respected. At least, we have never bought anybody.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, never again should Zambians trust people who once treated them like commodities because that is even worse than slavery. At least, one can argue that the ones who used to get us as slaves were different from us. How can a fellow African and Zambian start buying human beings? Zambians will not have a price tag here. So, we have great respect for Councillors and we must have great respect for them, and . To show how appreciative we are of their service, we must make their conditions of service normal so that they work for the people who elected them. If we, as hon. Members of Parliament do that, we shall benefit as well.  The President and the Government will also benefit.

Madam Speaker, with those few words, I, once more, thank Hon. Chanda most sincerely for re-awakening my hon. Colleagues who were in a slumber for over six years.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Information and Media (Ms Kasanda): Madam Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity. I totally agree that this Motion is non-controversial and knows no political affiliation.

Madam Speaker, having been elected as a Councillor under Chaloshi Ward under the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) in 2006, I stand with my colleagues, the Councillors, as I understand their plight. So, I fully support this Motion, and I must say it could not have come at a better time than the time the United Party for National development (UPND) is in Government because the UPND is a listening Government. however, the UPND had a plan even before it was in Government. It knew what the people of Zambia expected from us. We were also fully aware of what our Councillors go through.

Madam Speaker, our Councillors complement the Members of Parliament in the constituencies, and are the ones who interface with the people and hold the grassroots on our behalf. Therefore, the UPND Government is in support of improving the conditions of the Councillors because this is something that is already in process.

Madam Speaker, when we look at what the Councillors do in the constituencies, especially given that they are the first people contacted by our communities, there has been this tendency or belief in our constituencies that Councillors and Members of Parliament are the ones to buy coffins for our people, and that is what the Councillors do. Should there be a sickness in the Constituency, it is the Councillor to look after those people. Should there be a family that does not have food in the constituency, the first person they will go is the Councillor. Therefore, we believe that Councillors should be heard, and we are hearing them as the New Dawn Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Sefulo: Quality!

Ms Kasanda: Madam Speaker, we also know that the tasks of Councillors have increased. Before we came in Government, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) was at K1.6 million, and it was very erratic. We increased it to K25.7 million, and now, it is at K28.3 million. That is more work for the Councillors, as it means that our Councillors need to provide oversight on projects and engage the community more than usual because they need to make their communities understand what this hardworking Government is doing.

Madam Speaker, there is also the monitoring of projects and implementation of projects, which Councillors have to do. Once the projects are done, Councillors need to inspect them, and all that is work for the Councillors.

Madam Speaker, Councillors are doing a lot, and as the New Dawn Government, we appreciate their works. That is why we took it upon ourselves to start the process of making their conditions better than we found them.

Madam Speaker, it is sad that the time I was a Councillor, in 2006, we were getting K120 as an allowance. However, sixteen years down the line, the Councillors only get K3,000 as an allowance. I must assure our Councillors and the nation that the New Dawn Government has come to improve their conditions, which failed in the past ten years.

Hon. Member: Sixteen years!

Ms Kasanda: The ten years that our Colleagues were in office. We agree that the allowance increased from K750 to 3,000, but a lot more could have been done. Our colleagues sat in the constituencies with their Councillors and knew what their Councillors were getting when our colleagues were on the right and we were on the left. I know this because I am a second termer.

Mr Michelo: They were refusing to support all the Motions.

 

Ms Kasanda: Today, they are able to move this Motion.

Hon. Opposition Member: You are politicking.

Ms Kasanda: I am not politicking; I am stating the truth as it is.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kasanda: This is what the hon. Members on your left should have done instead of moving Motions today just because they are in Opposition. What were they doing when they were the Ruling party?

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Before the hon. Member for Kanchibiya winds up, I will call upon the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development to respond.

Hon. Members: Malaise!

Laughter

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): There is no malaise here to today.

Madam Speaker, let me thank the mover and the seconder of the Motion for exercising their right to move Motions to Parliament. Let me also thank our Councillors countrywide most profusely for resisting the temptation to stage a peaceful demonstration on the matter of their wellbeing and emoluments.

Madam Speaker, I want the country to know that there are people who were going to spoil the hon. Member of Parliament for Kanchibiya’s well-intended Motion by asking Councillors in Mufulira and Sesheke to demonstrate. Actually, Councillors in Sesheke tried to actualise that process by writing to the police to ask for permission to demonstrate. Demonstrate about what? We believe in a symbiotic relationship with our colleagues. We also believe in mutual respect, as the doctrine of mutual respect and mutual independence is a necessity for social wellbeing. No one can down-play the role that Councillors play in their jurisdictions. So, I salute the 1,858 Councillors in the country for not falling prey to unproductive demonstrations that, I suspect, may have come from those who made it a point to make this country ungovernable.

Thanks to the honourable Councillors

Madam Speaker, allow me, now, to speak to a few things that may crystallise the position of the Government regarding the wellbeing of Councillors.  When we went to the Nc'wala Ceremony in Chipata, the Councillors, led by Councillor George Mwanza, the Mayor of Chipata, sought to meet the President of the Republic to deal with the issue of emoluments, allowances and their well-being. At 18 hours, the President listened to them at Chipata Airport.

Madam Speaker, I have been everywhere executing my functions as a Minister. I have lent my ears to the Councillors in dealing with this same matter, and the answer has been the same. Who cares for the Councillor? The team or the group that failed to actualise the existence of the Emoluments Commission that had actually been put in the Constitution that was assented to in 2016, or the group that put the Emoluments Commission into motion six to seven months after they took office? The answer is for you to determine. I say this, through Hon. Chanda, to the Councillors that they are being looked after by a responsible group of people who will not abrogate anything that they put either in law or in promise.

Madam Speaker, it was the Patriotic Front (PF) that woke up in 2017 and said that the Councillors’ allowance must increase from K700 to K3,000. Ask the Councillors who served from 2017 to last year how many times the Government just sat back and did not pay the same K3,000 we are complaining about. I put it to you that in the constituency that I represent, Mazabuka Central, sometimes, the Councillors went for six months without being paid. That is a living example. That was the era of ‘Don’t Kubeba’, which means, ‘Do not tell them’; say one thing, but do the other. It is easy to make pronouncements.

Madam Speaker, I, as the Minister responsible for the wellbeing of my friends, the Councillors, agree that even after we took office, some councils still owe Councillors arrears. That is owing to the irresponsibility of Controlling Officers because they draw the money that comes in the form of a monthly grant. The money goes to the council and Councillors must be paid timely.

Madam Speaker, coming to the issue at hand, and because there is no contest in the manner in which the Motion has been moved, we agree that the Councillors are stressed. There is no difficulty in facing the truth because the truth has no disguise. So, we agree that Councillors are stressed and that we must address, as soon as possible, their wellbeing.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: We need to give the Councillors the dignity that they deserve.

Madam Speaker, we heard today someone insinuating something. Sometimes, confirmation of a fact is very easy; it could just be by the slip of the tongue, that these honourable people seated here (pointing at some Councillors in the Public Gallery) could be on sale, because someone said, “We easily buy them”. It is true that there were elections every day in the last Parliament because this Government you see here (indicating PF hon. Members), not only the Councillors, were experts at corrupting people.

Hon. Government members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Let us say things as they are.

Hon. Government members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: They went and corrupted people by saying, “We will give you more money than you will ever earn in your lifetime if you step aside and let us have a by-election”. We were being governed by a group of people who were not serious because all we were doing was electioneering. Today, I want to make this solemn assurance ...

Mr Sampa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this rare honour to rise on this point of order.

Madam Speaker, Standing Order No. 65 states that any Member debating should stick to the topic and not divert. Is the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development in order to start straying, as if we are going for elections tomorrow, and start talking about campaign promises when the topic is clearly about giving money to Councillors and former Mayors like me?

I need your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Member: Wi-Fi!

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: From what I have heard, the hon. Minister was trying to respond to an issue that was raised specifically by the hon. Member for Chitambo, who indicated that some Councillors were being sold. I am sure, that is the issue I followed attentively, and the hon. Minister was trying to respond to it. So, I do not think the hon. Minister is going astray, especially given the fact that I called upon him to respond to the issues that were brought out, being the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development.

You can continue, hon. Minister.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I was in the process of taking a solemn undertaking to Councillors countrywide that this Government, under the leadership of Mr Hichilema, feels for them and wants them to work in the most conducive and dignified environment. I forgive my younger brother, the hon. Member of Parliament for Matero, for interjecting because, I think, he had gone to the industrial area when his colleague …

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: … the hon. Member for Chitambo, referred to Councillors as goods and assets that could be sold.

Madam Speaker, this Government holds Councillors in very high esteem, as all the 1,854 of them and the 116 Council Chairpersons and Mayors are true partners in the successful delivery of development to our people. In this regard, I salute the Councillors, especially those from the PF, because most of them thought it was business-as-usual and could come and say they wanted to defect. However, they listened to us when we have told them to not defect, but to just work to deliver for our people, promising to deal with the politics when the terms came to an end.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon, Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, today, I am a very proud Member of Parliament because there must come a time in the life of this nation and this august House when we rise above partisan politics to look at what is good for the nation. What we have done today is justice for our Councillors.

Madam Speaker, allow me to thank the distinguished hon. Members of his august House and pay them glowing tribute for the speed and seriousness they have attached to this issue. Allow me, in particular, to say, ‘Thank you’ to the hon. Ministers of Education, Information and Media, and Local Government and Rural Development, and everyone who has debated this Motion. Further, allow me to thank the able seconder, Comrade Hon. Wamunyima, Member of Parliament for Nalolo, for adding his distinguished voice to this very important matter.

Madam Speaker, our National Anthem says that we must be “All one, strong and free”. On this day, our Councillors countrywide will know that they have representation in this House irrespective of their political affiliations.

Madam Speaker, without further ado, let me say, “Thank you” to you for admitting this Motion.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.

BUDGET 2023

(Debate resumed)

Mr Hamwaata (Pemba): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity. When the House adjourned yesterday, I was about to say that early childhood education is the foundation of every successful education system. The people of Pemba Constituency thank the Government for putting money aside in the 2023 Budget to complete the construction of fifty-six early childhood education centers. We are delighted to hear that 115 secondary schools that were abandoned by the Patriotic Front (PF) regime are going to be completed. Further, the people of Pemba are delighted that Ndondi Secondary School is going to be completed as well.

Madam, we are so happy that 120 secondary schools are going to be constructed and resources have been put aside in the 2023 Budget.

Madam Speaker, with these few words, I thank you. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to add a few words to the debate on the Budget Speech which was delivered by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning on 30^th of September, 2022.

Madam Speaker, a budget, being a financial plan, is very important to a nation in that it outlines measures that the Government intends to take in delivering development. We can look at development using two methods; quantitative method and qualitative method. I elected to look at the Budget Speech using qualitative measures of development, which include the human development index, the quality of health, incomes and education, life expectancy, among others.

Madam Speaker, others have defined development using freedom. They said development is freedom, such as the freedom to spend and the freedom of choice. When looking at development, others look at other areas, for instance, poverty. Is poverty reducing? Is unemployment reducing? Is inequality reducing?

So, these are some of the measures or methods that they would utilise as they make judgments regarding the performance of a particular country and, indeed, when you look at several budgets.

Madam, when you go to pages 10 and 11of the Budget, you have economic transformation and job creation and, particularly, under paragraph 46, the hon. Minister stated:

“Madam Speaker, Zambia will not fail. We will take inspiration from countries that were poorer than us with less natural resources than ourselves and yet transformed themselves into economies”.

Madam, Speaker, I was attracted by this statement because the hon. Minister drew examples from other jurisdictions. However, I take it that had the hon. Minister interrogated that further, he would have discovered that maybe that example may not fit perfectly with our circumstances because the countries he drew examples from may be countries that put their citizens first. These were not countries that gave huge concessions in the mining sector of up to K3.2 billion per year. The said countries may not have exchanged their revenue for a promissory note that will last up to ten years. The case in point out of this Budget Speech is that we believe the hon. Minister made decisions without putting the people of Zambia.

Madam, it was very sad that the hon. Minister decided to give concessions where we are losing revenue of up to K3.2 billion per year. He went further on to introduce tax bands which introduced further losses of up to K2.8 billion bringing the total to well over K8 billion per year.

Madam Speaker, where we are now, we are supposed to be focused on economic diversification. You can imagine what would have happened to this country had he not made those decisions. We would have been K8 billion better off three years later. What this country could do with the K8 billion.

Mr Kasandwe: Hammer!

Mr Mundubile: The decisions that were made by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning as regards these concessions have left a number of questions in the minds of many Zambians. Certainly, when he was giving comparisons about the mining sectors, we did not agree with the example that he gave. He gave an example comparing Zambia to the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) which he said was at 400,000 metric tonnes per annum at some point when we were at 800,000 metric tonnes and that it is now at 1.4 million metric tonnes while we remain at 800,000.

Madam, we think this was a very simplistic way of looking at the mining sector. The two countries are totally different. They are different in size and in the mineral deposits that the two countries have. The mineralisation of Congo cannot be compared to Zambia. You cannot compare fishing from Ngwerere River to that of the Kariba. Those would not be very good examples. We believe that the hon. Minister had a very simplistic way of looking at mining.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mundubile: There is no empirical evidence to show that it was on account of investment or the lack of it that the mining went that high in the DRC.

Madam Speaker, going forward, we want to really interrogate what has made our hon. Minister make the decisions that he did. I will quote a saying from one statesman from America called Benjamin Franklin. He defined corruption as:

“A much broader concept than the mere taking or payment of bribes; it covers all actions that put private interests above public interests in relation to legislation, policy and administration.”

Madam, a time will come when the people of Zambia will demand to know the motivation behind these decisions because clearly, where we are going, we do not think there is any other Government that is going to give similar concessions. So, even our investors must understand that this is about the people of Zambia. There must be a win-win situation on the table. Negotiations are won or lost on the negotiation table. Whenever people have been put in positions of responsibility where they have to make decisions, they have to negotiate for Zambians because going forward, what sense will it make? Yes, today we might win because of one favour or two or because they are talking to friends, but certainly tomorrow when other Governments take over, those policies will not stand. There will be changes and Zambia will lose because there would have been many changes in the tax regime within the mining sector.

Madam, what we want to suggest to the Minister of Finance and National Planning is that it is not too late. He can still go back and renegotiate. If you look at the public-private partnership (PPP), for instance, infrastructure, this time around as mentioned in this speech, will be implemented under PPP. We have very important roads that may not be economic roads and therefore not qualify under PPP and yet the focus will be on economic roads. So, what happens to that other infrastructure? Can you imagine what would have happened if that K8 billion we are giving away to these investors was retained and applied to build our infrastructure?

Madam, in conclusion, to our colleagues in Government now, one day the people of Zambia will make them account for what actually motivated the decisions that they made, especially the decisions that have been made in the mining sector.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for according me the opportunity to debate the Motion of Supply that was moved on the Floor of this House.

Madam, we all agree that the Budget is annually presented on the Floor of this House by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, pursuant to Article 202 of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016 which is instructive and ensures that a Budget is presented to the House and goes through all these processes to be approved before expenditure could be allowed to be spent.

Madam Speaker, it is also clear that this Budget is the second in a series under the New Dawn Administration. That being the case, we have a reference point, meaning that there has been a Budget that was presented to the Floor of this House before which was implemented and we can now refer to at least a year of performance of that Budget for the year 2022.

Madam, this is how I will frame my debate. I will first give comments on the socio-economic outlook. I will also give some concepts coming out of the Budget Speech and then I will make a few comments on the socio-economic milestones that were achieved going by the review of the performance of the first Budget which the hon. Minister talked about on the Floor of this House. I will then conclude by conceptualising it to make it specific to the people I represent, the people of Zambezi East, and how they will see themselves in the Budget for 2023.

Madam Speaker, since we have a reference point, indeed it is agreed, and the hon. Minister mentioned here, that we were a country known for negatives. There were negative narratives that included, inter alia, crushing debt, being the worst performing currency, skyrocketing inflation and a stagnating economy whose Gross Domestic Product (GDP) was not growing and we recorded negatives. With that situation, something needed to be done and for sure, respect is earned and not just demanded.

Madam Speaker, even here, I hear people debating on how good the Patriotic Front (PF) preformed during the time it was in change. However, respect is earned from the people. The people actually demonstrated their anger by the decision they made on that day, in August 2021. They showed how were displeased with the way the PF was running affairs, thus, putting us deep into debt. Now, after one year, this is where we are.

Madam Speaker, in the last one year, we have laid a strong and firm economic framework on which gains are now being seen, in terms of what we are able to talk about. We have restored debt suitability. We have also attained exchange rate stability which is so important in order to ensure that prices do not increase anyhow. Inflation has also been reduced to a single digit. We have also achieved meaningful budget credibility which was missing when the people on your left hand side were in charge.

Madam Speaker, budget credibility, for those who may not understand, is where you spend according to what is appropriated by this House. That was missing. That is what economists call fiscal discipline. That is the discipline that we have instituted in the New Dawn Government.

Madam Speaker, now that we have attained this status and the Budget has been presented, the people of Zambezi are happy with the appropriations so far except that they have a few questions. We have seen the increment in the Constitutional Development Fund (CDF) which is going to give us now more than K28 million as Zambezi East. However, the people of Zambezi East are asking that the administrative process be relooked at so that we can start seeing the benefits of the CDF. We can start seeing that devolution of power to the people. I have seen colossal sums being allocated to the health sector, which includes the recruitment of health staff. The people of Zambezi East are asking questions. We have a hospital which was built in 1965. The PF completely ignored us. This hospital is dilapidated. We need a whole new district hospital in Zambezi. I heard the hon. Minister talk about new infrastructure in health. We are expecting a new hospital in Zambezi.

Madam Speaker, I have also seen that some money has been allocated for improvement of infrastructure in education. In Zambezi we are expecting a new Zambezi Boarding Secondary School. The boarding secondary school that we have in Zambezi is dilapidated and there is nothing to write home about. Right now, we have put money aside for bursaries for children but they do not have where to stay. We have had money from the CDF but people are failing to go into boarding. The money could not be utilised because there are no boarding facilities where the children can stay. Hon. Minister of Education, in Zambezi we are expectant that this Budget will address our issues as well

Madam Speaker, our feeder roads are in a dilapidated state. The road from Zambezi to Chitokoloki/Mpidi has never been attended to for a long time. The road from Zambezi to Depalata/Nyakulenga is unattended to. The hon. Minister of Infrastructure Housing and Urban Development and the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, we expect these roads to be attended to through this Budget. So, it is not just the support of the Budget, but we are very expectant in Zambezi. We believe that there is credibility in the New Dawn Government and that the issues I have spoken about regarding our township roads will be attended to. We also want Zambezi Town to look as nice as any other town I have seen. Samfya looks very nice. I want Zambezi also to look like Samfya. New township roads are expected in Zambezi.

Madam Speaker, this is the voice of the people of Zambezi asking its Government and supporting the Budget that has been presented and very expectant that those things I have mentioned will be dealt with.

I thank you.

Mr Mulebwa (Kafulafuta): Madam Speaker, I thank you very much for the time you have given the people of Kafulafuta to submit their humble opinion on the Budget Speech.

Madam Speaker, I do not have much to say because I believe much has been said already and I would not want to waste your time and the time for this House. I just have one or two things that I want to say.

Madam Speaker, to start with, I must say that I felt like break-dancing when I was listening to the Speech, except that I knew that somebody would raise a point of order against me so I held my peace. However, I sympathised with the hon. Minister as he was reading his Budget Speech because he stood there for 3 hours and I was wondering why, through the Speakers Office, a chair was not organised for him so that as he presented his Budget, he would be comfortable.

Madam Speaker, I cannot question the progress that we have seen through this Budget Speech because I think just the posture that the hon. Minister delivered his speech in was amazing. He looked confident, one who knew exactly what he was doing and one who knew where he is taking this nation. So it was very impressive. Everything was absolutely gorgeous.

Madam Speaker, I just thought of amplifying the employment issue that obviously has affected most of our youths. We have this incredible score on the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) that the New Dawn Government has brought and through this many young people have acquired skills. Like I said in my earlier, I have quite a number of young people who have graduated. They include bricklayers, carpenters, joinery, metal fabricators and so on and so forth. If we can engage the youths immediately in these projects that we have, I see an opportunity where we can solve the employment problem for the youths. I know that we all have numerous projects in our constituencies and I think we are toeing the same line.

Madam Speaker, the only thing that I have observed is that the measures that we have put for any company to get a contract seem to be very difficult. Having been through school, we have seen people pass with distinctions but when it comes to displaying the knowledge of what they acquired in school, it is totally different. I know that for most of these documents that are demanded for, only people with money can manage to get them. A new graduate from Technical and Vocational Teachers College (TVTC) cannot have such documentation. If we do not realise quickly so that we engage them in order for them to begin on working on these projects, we will be moving backward after spending so much money on them.

Madam Speaker, the Government relaxes certain rules just to allow them to operate in the country. I have seen this happen many times when an investor comes into the country. I suggest that we relax the requirements that the new graduates would need to present before they get a contract so that, quickly, we can move at the rate that I believe the New Dawn Government wants to move in.

It is clear that our President wanted things to change in Zambia, like yesterday. If we lessen the requirements needed before a contractor can get a job, it will be one of the ways in which things can change quickly.

Madam Speaker, as I said, I do not want to waste much of your time. We have had a number of speakers and, basically, we are doing this academically because we all know and have seen where we are going.

Madam Speaker, the last point I want to comment on is on mining. The vision we have of reaching 3 million metric tonnes in mining is something that left me wondering. Are we looking at the current mines increasing their production or we hope to have other new mines opened countrywide? If this is the case, I think I am not privy to any information that tells us that our geographical settings have been mapped for mining purposes. The last point I bring to this honourable House is to really emphasise or look at whether our country has been mapped for mining purposes. If not, when this will be done? Otherwise, I rest my case.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I will give some advice or guidance. This exercise should not be taken academically because the people out there are waiting to hear how they are fitting into the budget for next year, and they are listening. They want to hear how you, the representatives, are bringing them into the Budget for next year. I thought I should guide.

The hon. Member for Mpika, you may proceed.  

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving the people of Mpika an opportunity to add their voice to the debate on the 2023 National Budget.

Madam Speaker, let me begin by reminding the people of Zambia that Mpika is the host to the legacy of the Late President Michael Chilufya Sata, may his soul rest in peace, as this month marks the year he passed away.

Madam Speaker, as I add my voice on this important debate, let me begin by talking about the issue of the mines. Mining is the economic backbone of our country. As such, the people of Zambia must be the first ones to benefit from their wealth. However, in this Budget, the Government has given huge concessions to the mines even though it will lose K2.3 billion. On the other hand, the same Government has removed subsidies from fuel and electricity, which benefit the ordinary citizens.

Madam Speaker, the case should have been that the Government taxes the mines properly and then channel the resources to fuel and electricity subsidies. Not only that, the Government has done this on a promissory note that they want to increase the production of copper to 3 million metric tonnes per annum.

Madam Speaker, these mining companies have had a fair share of good policies by successful Governments, but the people of Zambia benefit nothing. The mining companies under declare their profits and production and everything they do revolves around cheating.

Madam Speaker, again, we cannot afford to continue having these mining companies benefit more at the expense of the people of Zambia. The Government should properly tax the mines and channel the resources to the agricultural sector.

Madam Speaker, right now a bag of fertilizer is fetching K1,050, which cannot be afforded by my people in Mpika. My people are very much willing to venture into agriculture, but farming inputs are very expensive. A 5kg bag of seed costs K855. The people in Kaule, Chibansa, and Mwafushi cannot afford.

Madam Speaker, this Government should not have given concessions to the mines. They should –

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, my point of order is pursuant to Standing Order No. 66 of 2021 which addresses the issue of unparliamentary language.

Madam Speaker, I will quote from this order that:

“(1)      Unparliamentary language refers to the use of offensive, provocative, insulting, threatening, or obscene language in the House.

(2) A member shall not use unparliamentary language in the House.

(3)     A member who alleges that another member has used unparliamentary language in the House may immediately raise a point of order.”

 As I have done.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mpika used the word ‘cheat’ which was outlawed in this House many years ago. Is he therefore in order to use the word ‘cheating’ when it is not allowed?

I seek your ruling.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Indeed, the word ‘cheating’ is unparliamentary. May the hon. Member for Mpika withdraw the word ‘cheating’ and replace it with another word.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, I stand as guided, and I withdraw the word ‘cheating’ and replace it with ‘untruthful’ which the mining companies have always been.

Madam Speaker, I was saying that if we properly tax the mines, we can actually fund the agricultural sector, and even reduce the cost of farming inputs.

Madam Speaker, right now, 70 per cent of our people depend on agriculture. At the moment, the number of registered farmers is 3,485,482. However, only 1,082,000 are on Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) and the rest buy inputs on their own. The same inputs which are very expensive. Not only that but those that are on FISP is receiving, maybe, four bags of fertilizer and yet we are saying we want to diversify our economy into agriculture and make it our main economic activity.

 Madam Speaker, it is too much of the mining sector benefiting other countries but Zambia. In the 2023 National Budget, the hon. Minister did not state how the Government intends to recapitalise our railway sector, particularly, the Tanzania Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA) company, which is on the verge of collapsing. The company is capable of employing 5,000 of our people, but currently only employs 2,120.  Furthermore, we also have 679 retirees who have not been paid bringing the total to K81,241,000, as the liability that the Government is supposed to pay TAZARA retirees. 

Madam Speaker, on the issue of putting TAZARA workers on the Government payroll, it was resolved by the Council of Ministers in 2019 so that it can be helped to get back on its own feet. We have unemployment of our youths in Muchinga Province, particularly in Mpika, even in our nation. Every year, we have about 126,000 youths graduating from various tertiary institutions going onto the job market. However, in this Budget, only about 9,000 of those will be –

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I was saying that we have about 116,450 youths who have graduated from various tertiary institutions who need jobs. The Government should provide an environment for them to have jobs. It is not just about the education and health sectors. We have many youths who are unemployed in Mpika. About 40,000 youths in Mpika are looking for jobs.

Madam Speaker, much has not been talked about in the Budget Speech regarding infrastructure development. In Mpika, we have a very important economic road that connects Mpika to Nabwalya Chombo, which is in the North Luangwa National Park. This is a very important chiefdom in the sense that once we connect it to the rest of the country, we will open up tourism, thereby earning a lot of revenue from tourism activities.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, let me appeal to this Government to properly tax the mines instead of taxing the marketeers, ordinary citizens and small business owners. The mines should be properly taxed and the resources should, once again, be channelled to the agricultural sector to ensure that a 50 kg bag of fertiliser is sold at K250. In Kenya, immediately after the elections, President Ruto has reduced a bag of fertiliser from K970 to K450 and he is promising to reduce it further.

Madam Speaker, that is what must be done. That is what our hon. Colleagues promised the people of Zambia and they must do it.

Mr Sing’ombe: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kapyanga: You should not even rise and say, “Point of order”, when I am just reminding you of your campaign promise.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Mr Kapyanga: I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, please, you are not the one to allow the hon. Members of Parliament to rise on points of order. I do not think it is your job and the hon. Members present here have a right to actually rise on points of order, including yourself. So, there is an indication for a point of order by the hon. Member for Dundumwezi.

What is your point of order, hon. Member?

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Speaker, my point of order is premised on Standing Order 65. Is the hon. Member in order to state that immediately President Ruto took over power in Kenya, he reduced a 50 kg bag of fertiliser from K900 to K200, when Kenyans use Kenyan Shillings? Is he in order to mislead this nation?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We are even discussing our neighbouring countries, which we are not supposed to do under any circumstances, unless what you are saying is the truth. The hon. Member for Mpika was definitely out of order because the information that he provided is not correct. I am sure the people in Kenya use shillings and in Zambia, we use Kwacha. Therefore, that statement is not correct and the hon. Member for Mpika was definitely out of order.

Mr Mufalali (Nominated): Muna yo mutelele.

Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving me an opportunity to add a word to the Budget Address presented by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Firstly, Madam Speaker, I want to commend the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and the entire United Party for National Development (UPND) the New Dawn Government for being proactive and ensuring that they do the right thing. Secondly, I commend them for ensuring that they bring to the House the Annual Borrowing Plan. This is unlike what the previous regime used to do by going ahead with the 1931 and 1969 Acts and failing to repeal them. Many hon. Members here were not even born at that time or very few were there.

Madam, I want to commend the hon. Minister of Health and entire Government for coming up with the Annual Borrowing Plan and revisiting and revising the Acts that are to do with borrowing in this country.

Madam Speaker, I will go straight into talking about the global recession, which is on part I of the Budget Speech. I want to commend again the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for ensuring that together with his Government they have managed to bring economic growth from negative to above 2 per cent now. That is serious growth and it indicates to the nation and the whole world that we have a progressive Government. It is a Government that is forward looking.

Madam Speaker, on the debt side, it is saddening to note that some people do not realise that the burden of debt that this country is experiencing is due to negative or inconsistent policies that were there before. The exchange rate kept fluctuating and skyrocketing. All those things spoke to a situation where there was no stability. The New Dawn Government has made sure that there is stability. Going by how the exchange rate is at the moment, it is very stable.

Madam Speaker, the economy had degenerated. It was in dire stress, but the New Dawn Government has made sure that inflation has been kept in check and the exchange rate is also stable.

Madam Speaker, I will go straight to the performance of the 2022 Budget, which has performed very well and speaks to the fact that every spending agency and ministries were getting their monies on time. If anything, according to the report that we have received, which is a fact, the hon. Minister has indicated that they went above what was planned by 3.5 per cent. So, it is a clear indication that we have a well deserving Government that is able to handle the economy.

Madam Speaker, I will also speak to the mining sector which, I think, under the New Dawn Government, is doing very well. We have projects that are coming up contrary to what was happening before where the mines were closing, there was no confidence, and people were borrowing carelessly. Today, what we have is a situation where the Government is able to come to the House and recommend what they want to borrow.

It is sad, Madam Speaker, to hear someone say, “You are borrowing too much for social activities in the social sector.” When campaigning, the majority of them were saying that the New Dawn Government is going to scrap Social Cash Transfer. Today, because of their inconsistencies, they have come before this House saying the social sector is getting too much money. Where do they stand? They must have a backbone. They cannot be saying that Social Cash Transfer will be removed. Saying this and that about Hakainde Hichilema, and that the UPND will do something. Today, they are saying we have given too money to Social Cash Transfer and social sectors. It is unfortunate that the inconsistencies are too much. Now they have realised that even the meal allowance which was scrapped under the PF Government has come back. Today, they are all over writing that we will not manage to facilitate this meal allowance.

Mr Mabeta: Shame!

Mr Mufalali: It is a clear indication of their inconsistencies, a clear indication of them failing to keep up to their promises when they were in Government. Today, they want to start saying this and that will fail. Unfortunately, the New Dawn Government is focused and definitely, it will manage to meet the requirements.

Madam Speaker, I will also talk about Information Communication technology (ICT). Under the New Dawn Government, when the President came here, he spoke about digital revolution. The digital revolution the President talked about is compensated or garnished in the report that was brought by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. I heard someone say that the speech by the President is contradicting that of the hon. Minister of Finance of National Planning. It is unfortunate that people were not listening.

When the President before the House, Madam Speaker, he said there is digital revolution taking place. When the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning came before the House, he said he was going to repeal some of the laws that are hindering progress in digital revolution. We are supposed to move forward. We cannot continue being held backwards by people who did not care at that time but they want to indicate that they are caring, now. They brought the mines down and brought the debt burden on the people of Zambia. Today, they stand here saying we have removed Royalty Tax here and there. It is neither here nor there.

Madam Speaker, the digital revolution taking place when the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is saying we want to repeal and replace certain laws speaks to the future.

Madam Speaker, we are experiencing a fourth revolution right now. In that fourth revolution, digital platform is the in thing. It is the one that will transform this country. When the President said we would ensure that we bring the digital revolution, he spoke to the future. He was speaking to the millennials who are so much interested that they enhance their capabilities in terms of creativeness.

So, Madam Speaker, this Government, the UPND Government, the New Dawn Government led by President Hakainde Hichilema, means well for this country. That is the more reason we will have farming blocks under the Ministry of Agriculture …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: … to improve women livelihood. That is why the President said that 50 per cent of land that will be allocated will be given to women because he understands that the poor are suffering out there. Women are disadvantaged. That is why the President talked about this progressive way of doing things by bringing in K300 million. It is not out of nothing. It is out of a peculiar understanding that women must benefit.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Unfortunately, people are standing up and saying, “No, it should not be like this.”

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: There are no Independent hon. Members indicating to debate.

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the people of Lundazi this rare opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Budget.

Madam Speaker, we are grateful, as people of Lundazi, for the enhanced Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Ms Nyirenda: Why are we saying this Madam Speaker? For a long time we have not had different schools being built within the constituency. Just by research, when you take the people on the grassroots to be the ones to be involved in the development of a particular district, you are assured of delivering the correct issues. For that, I fail to say it is not a good thing. It is a good thing and deserves to be supported.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, in debating, I want my people in Lundazi to know that they have been considered. On page 29 the hon. Minister said and I quote:

“Madam Speaker, with regard to tertiary education, Government will establish polytechnics to increase access to skills training for the youth. Government will in 2023 commission Lundazi, …”

Madam Speaker, the moment I saw that, I said, “Lord, you have answered our prayer.”

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Nyirenda: It is our wish that our trade school be commissioned in the year 2023. Where good has been done, I cannot remove anything.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, it is good that our people will not lack or go to school and not find anyone to teach them because of the additional recruitment of 4,500 teachers. Coming from the teaching profession, I know how demotivated pupils become when they go to school and not find a teacher. I am so grateful for this addition to the number of teachers as it is going to help us, especially for those of us who come from rural areas. However, I urge the Government to consider working out the school issues which they talked about in the last Budget. They said they were introducing 120 schools. This time, when the hon. Minister was talking about 120 schools, I thought it was now going to 240 schools. Alas, I followed him to his office and said no because it was the same 120 schools which were mentioned in the first Budget.

Madam Speaker, it is joyful that indeed Lundazi, for the first time, can get a secondary school ...

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Nyirenda: ... which can spill over into the trade school which has been built already.

Madam Speaker, I want to speak to the issue of cancellation of visa fees. Sometimes when we are making pronouncements, they may sound good, however, they may have an impact. Already, we are suffering at the Passport Office as we do not have passports. We are failing to print out passports for our people and yet that little money which would have been paid by the people who would be coming to visit our country would have helped us in some way. There is no way we are going to make everything free. At the end of the day, we will not have where to get resources to build our own country. On that one, I expect the Government to look through it and see how best it can be handled. What I know about people is that everyone who is going to be visiting the country will come under the visitor’s visa and we will not be able to get anything as a nation. This is advice from the people of Lundazi.

Madam Speaker, I stand here as a gender activist. When I read that the Budget for law enforcement officers is going to be increased, it brought so much joy.

Madam Speaker, what is happening in our nation is disheartening. The kidnapping of our girls is painful. I have just read where Hon. Buumba Malambo in Kafue said four Indian men have been sodomising a man who is eighty seven years old. Where is this country going? It is important that our Budget should increase in the area of security so that our officers should not just get the simple training of chilailai or just running and getting into physique. They should be able to become technologically alert so that we can be able to protect our citizenry. The people are looking up to us for their safety. With their children being sodomised in schools, they are looking up to us to see a better Zambia tomorrow.

Madam Speaker, I thank the New Dawn Government for adding to the number of health workers. It is really good for us to have many nurses. This can help us and our people in Chanyondo and Mwase area to have those small clinics, which were built or which we are building through the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), to have workers.

Madam Speaker, I cannot add anything more than just to say that we are grateful. The Budget should work so that Zambia can be a better place to live in. The people of Lundazi sent me to say thank you on their behalf for the loans and monies they are getting through empowerment.

Madam Speaker I urge my brother, the Minister of Agriculture, to deliver the 4,409 bags of fertilizer he owes the people of Lundazi so that it can be very easy for him when he comes to Lundazi.  If you do not deliver akulu, muzamusuzika. What I am trying to say is that, if he does not deliver the bags of fertiliser he is owing the people of Lundazi, he is going to have a problem talking to them because they are his people.

Madam Speaker, before I exhaust my remaining minute, I turn to the hon. Minister of Energy. Right now, Lundazi is in darkness. Maybe, even as their hon. Member of Parliament is speaking, they are not even able to see me. They will only be able to read history because they do not have news. Why? We are not connected to the national grid.

Madam Speaker, by supporting this Budget, we are urging the hon. Minister of Energy to look at Lundazi so that it can also be connected to the electricity national grid. They should be able to enjoy like their friends, here, in Lusaka and on the Copperbelt.

Madam Speaker, I cannot say much but to save a few minutes for other people who are going to debate.

I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you hon. Member for Lundazi. I hope our hon. Minister of Agriculture will be in safe hands when he goes to Lundazi.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for allowing the people of Solwezi East Constituency, Mushindamo District, to add their voice to the Motion on the Floor of the House.

Madam Speaker, I will make a few comments on key note areas on the Budget Speech that was delivered by Hon. Dr. Stumbeko Musokotwane, entitled ‘Stimulating Growth for Improved Livelihoods’. The speech talks fervently about farming, livestock fisheries, mining, tourism and manufacturing. I will centre my points just on few of those.

Madam Speaker, in the livestock industry, the people of Solwezi East are overwhelmed because they heard the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock indicating that Mushindamo District was given the aqua project. In this regard, we are actually happy that this Budget is speaking to this component. We have many rivers and valleys where we can actually actualise the aspect of aqua culture. In that vein, a week ago we had a traditional ceremony in Chief Musaka called Kashanga Munshitolwa, on how the Lamba people who are based in that chiefdom came from the Luba-Lunda Kingdom. During that time, I addressed the people and the chiefs and we talked about farming blocks. The chiefs are more than ready to give land regarding this sector of agriculture and this budget is on point.

Madam Speaker, to that effect I am so glad that the people of Solwezi East are well represented. We believe that during the year 2023, we are going to see farming blocks in Mushindamo District being actualised.

Madam Speaker, the speech gives hope to the mining sector, especially for the people of Solwezi East and the North-Western Province, in general. We know for sure that we have Kalumbila Mine, which is the hub of nickel, and Kansanshi Mine, which has actually been revitalised by being given a life span of the next twenty five years. Kasenseli Gold Mine and Lumwana Mine have also been revitalised.

Madam Speaker, we see that North-Western Province is indeed the new Copperbelt. However, the people of Solwezi East and the North-Western Province are saying that since the North-Western Province is becoming the new hub of development, we request that the electric car battery factory that is coming should be sited either in Solwezi or Kalumbila knowing that our friends from the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) are also partners when it comes to mining. So, that is the humble request that we expect this Budget to address in 2023.

Madam Speaker, looking at tourism, this Budget articulates issues in this sector about infrastructure, hospitality, road network, airstrips, both in the private and public sector, like it is our neighbouring countries. If you go to Botswana in a town called Maun, you will find many small aircrafts which are used for tourism. That is what we expect this country to do as we address the tourism sector. For your own information, Mushindamo District is the source of the Kafue River. We expect the Minister of Tourism to actually enhance that sector so that we can have a heritage site for the source of the Kafue River, which I think is very important.

Madam Speaker, I have already talked about the manufacturing industry. We actually call for the quick consideration in this Budget about the establishment of Mushindamo Central Business area. I believe that from the time Mushindamo was declared a district together with Kalumbila, it has been observed that Kalumbila has advanced. However, the bottlenecks that surrounded the limitation of the Central Business District (CBD) being developed in Mushindamo District has been ironed out and all the five chiefs have agreed to the place where it needs to be. We believe that through this wonderful Budget Speech, we are actually going to see the development of the CBD in Solwezi East Constituency.

Madam Speaker, to that effect, we are expecting all the facilities that go with the status of a district such as banks, hospitals and other social amenities to be constructed. We are hopeful that this Budget is going to address such aspects.

Madam Speaker, all this culminates into an educated citizenry. So, we expect one or two of the secondary schools that have been talked about to, at least, be allocated to Mushindamo District. That will make our head teachers and teachers happy because their remunerations may increase. Last week, I raised an issue on accountability where our head teachers are holding workshops as opposed to party after party. They raised a concern that it was like a betrayal because at the moment, they are earning their living through workshops. However, with the development that is coming through the Budget that has been articulated through the Budget Speech, we know that, probably, they would be happy and not really crave for workshops because they will have enough earnings through an increased salary.

Madam Speaker, the people of Solwezi are overwhelmed with the hope that has been given to this nation and all the constituencies through the Budget Speech.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwila (Mufulira Central): Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity given to the people of Mufulira Central to contribute to the debate on the 2023 Budget.

Madam Speaker, when I was going through this Budget, I was looking for what to go and explain to the people of Mufulira as to what this Budget means to them.  Mufulira Constituency has all kinds of people ranging from the working class to the nonworking class, the youth and the aged. So, as I was going through the Budget, I wanted to know what this Budget means to the Zambian taxpayer based in Mufulira and in Zambia, as a whole. What does this Budget mean to the unemployed youth? What does this Budget mean to a patient with a chronic illness? What does this Budget mean to a school leaver waiting to enter university on the Government loan? What does this Budget mean to a miner on the payroll of Mopani Copper Mines or Konkola Copper Mines (KCM), or indeed mines owned by foreign investors? What does this Budget mean to a grandmother heading a house with orphaned grandchildren? These areas crossed my mind.

Madam Speaker, having gone through the 2023 Budget to answer these questions or to prepare responses, I noticed that, first of all, the 2023 Budget compared to the 2022 Budget, has reduced by K25 billion, which is a 13 per cent reduction. As a country, this year, we are implementing a Budget of K194 billion, but the Government proposes to spend K167 billion in 2023.  That, alone, raises questions on what has happened. Generally, just when we consider inflationary measures, we expect the Budget to go up. However, I understand that the Government wants to stick to statistics by maintaining a certain percentage of growth within the Gross Domestic Product (GDP), but as a result, it is restricting growth.

Madam Speaker, what does this Budget mean to a patient with a chronic disease? It is a sad story. The allocation to the health sector is inadequate, especially the procurement of drugs and medical supplies, which stands at K4.6 billion in 2023. In this year’s Budget, the allocation was K3.4 billion.

Madam Speaker, your Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services, came here to present a report. They told us that this year alone, the Zambia Medicines and Medical Supplies Agency (ZAMMSA), had a budget of K19 billion, but was only funded K3.6 billion that is 15 per cent of its budget. This means that 85 per cent was at the mercy of cooperating partners. What have we seen as a result of this dismal allocation to the health sector? The health sector has collapsed. There are no drugs in hospitals, ambulances have stopped operating, there are no X-ray machines in hospitals, no Computerised Tomography (CT) scans working, and labs are shutting down because the allocation to the health sector is so low. Right now, the only thing that is standing in the health sector is the buildings themselves. Otherwise, the service has collapsed. However, we are now allocating K4.6 billion. I am sure that the budget for ZAMMSA will still be –

Dr Kalila: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Dr Kalila: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, as most of my hon. Colleagues have indicated several times on the need to be factual –

Mr Mutelo: Standing Order No. 65.

Dr Kalila: Yes. The famous Standing Order No. 65.

Madam Speaker, first of all, I raise a point of order as to whether the hon. Colleague on the Floor is in order to mislead the House. As you and everybody else will recall, the Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services has never at any one time come on the Floor of the House to present matters to do with the budget for the Ministry of Health. Never!

Madam, in fact, our topical issue for this year was local pharmaceutical manufacturing. So, I do not know whether the hon. Member is in order to misquote or mislead the Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services. There are many hon. Members who constitute this Committee who never at any one time said so.

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you. The hon. Member for Mufulira was actually out of order because we know very well the hon. Minister who presents the Budget to this House, that is, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. We do not expect the Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services to come to this House to bring a budget for the health sector of this country. So, for that, the hon. Member for Mufulira was definitely out of order for misleading the House and the nation at large.

You may continue.

Mr Mwila: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for your guidance.

Madam Speaker, your House is in receipt of the Action Taken Report from your Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services. When you read that report, it clearly states that in 2022, ZAMMSA had a budget of K19 billion for drugs and the funding that was allocated to drugs was K3.4 billion, which is 15 per cent of that budget. That report is in your office. I am actually shocked that the Chairperson for Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services can stand and disown his own report.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, I think you have been guided. You are supposed to go ahead as guided. Now, it is as if you are also challenging the …

Hon. Government Members: The Speaker

Madam First Deputy Speaker: … Speaker. It would have been better if your came with that report and laid it on the Table. Otherwise, you are not supposed argue with the Speaker.

You may continue with that guidance so that we allow more Members to debate.

Mr Mwila: Let me continue, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, what does this Budget mean to a miner on the payroll at Mopani Copper Mines or KCM? It gives no hope to that miner in Mufulira, Kitwe and Chingola because all we heard from this Budget was that the Government was going to resolve the outstanding issues concerning Mopani Copper Mines and KCM. While the Government has taken the whole year to resolve the outstanding issues, people are losing jobs and Mopani Copper Mines is crippling and lacking liquidity while we continue to listen to the story of the issues that are going to be resolved. Indeed, it does not give any hope to the people who depend on the full and functional operations of Mopani Copper Mine.

Madam, what does this Budget mean to a taxpayer, Civil Servant and those working in the private sector? When you look at the revenue side, the mines continue to enjoy concessions. K2.8 billion has been given up through concessions to the mines while the taxpayer will contribute K19 billion to the revenue side, second only to Corporate Income Tax. The taxpayers see no hope in 2023 of the tides turning to their advantage because in addition to zero tax relief to the taxpayer, we are also expecting a rise in the cost of living.

Madam Speaker, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) report agreement with Zambia is very clear. We expect to see a rise in the cost of electricity and fuel which are the drivers of development and production. When the costs in these two areas go up, we expect a rise in the cost of living. So, this Budget does not give hope to a taxpayer desperately contributing so much money. Instead, they are seeing money going down the drain in concessions to the mines which do not fulfil what they promise to the Government. This is not a very good sign.

Madam, having said this, I take note of the hon. Minister’s pronouncement to put the Ndola/Mufulira/Mokambo Road on the public-private partnership (PPP). How I wish that the mines were taxed more so that we do not have to depend on negotiations with the private developers of this road and instead tax the mines and construct and develop that road. In fact, the people who damaged that road are those who are mining and moving heavy equipment on our roads. We wait to see the Ndola/Mufulira/Mokambo Road come to fruition, as promised in the Budget.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr E. Banda (Muchinga): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving the good people of Muchinga an opportunity to add a word to the Motion of Supply that was presented by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Madam, while others may be looking on the negative side, the people of Muchinga are looking at the positive side of the Motion.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr E. Banda: The employment of the 30,000 teachers and the 4,500 health workers and other youth to be employed is a positive thing that has given hope to the people of Zambia and Muchinga that more will be done and achieved through this Budget that will take effect next year, 2023.

Madam Speaker it is not a secret that Zambia has many youth who are not employed. The youth we have in Zambia are in categories. The Government has employed those that have attained tertiary education and those who attained grade twelve certificates will be employed through the security wings. At the same time, the Government came up with a policy of the training of our youth through trade schools. That has given hope to most of our youth as they are going to be educated through these trade schools. The Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts is also empowering these youths. All these are good policies of the New Dawn Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr E. Banda: Madam Speaker, the wish of every Zambian and every youth in Zambia now is to see the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts being highly funded so as to empower many of them. We are also looking forward, as the people of Muchinga being a rural constituency, to the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development being highly funded so it can work on the dilapidated roads.

Madam, the Government has mentioned that agriculture is business. Muchinga is a rural constituency where many people depend on agriculture, but they find it very difficult to transport their product to the market because of the poor roads. The New Dawn Government, through this Budget that takes effect next year, has given hope, once again, to the people of Zambia, in particular the people of Muchinga, that the roads will be worked on.

Madam Speaker, while others are celebrating the news that 120 secondary schools will be constructed, the people of Muchinga have three schools that have remained incomplete since 2008, during the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD) time. The United Party for National Development (UPND) Government is the only hope for the people of Muchinga.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr E. Banda: I must mention that the people of Muchinga are happy in the sense that the contractors have already been paid and they will be on site anytime to complete the said three schools in Muchinga Constituency.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr E. Banda: Madam Speaker, for all these good reasons, it is just right that the people of Muchinga should support the Motion of Supply. To the people of Muchinga, it is not just a Motion of Supply or rather a Budget, as it is commonly known, but is a plan on how the New Dawn Government intends to spend or use the resources that they are organising in the following year.

Madam, you have seen that every constituency is being allocated money fairly. There is no segregation in the way the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is being disbursed. We just need to be prudent with how we use the money. That is the reason every hon. Member of Parliament should support this Budget without question. It is the only Budget that is going to bring development to the people who we represent. We are not here to represent ourselves but the people who sent us here.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr E. Banda: The increase in the Social Cash Transfer Programme means many people in my rural constituency will benefit. It means many people’s lifestyle will change and the poverty levels will decrease, in short. Why would a Member of Parliament, like me, who has many poor people in his constituency not support this Motion of Supply?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr E. Banda: Madam, I will not spend much time debating what is already seen by everyone here. I want to donate the remaining three minutes to other hon. Members who may want to debate. I must just end by saying the people of Muchinga are in support of the Motion of Supply and the budget for the year 2023.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao (Luanshya): Madam Speaker, time without number, you have said from where you are seated you are able to see us very clearly and I believe you. It is for the same reason that I believe that if you have seen a miserable Member of Parliament, I am one of them. I am very miserable, but this Budget Speech brought so much joy and excitement to me that from where you are seated, going forward, you will not see me as miserable as I had been.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Simbao: Madam, this Budget Speech brings the kind of joy that Nehemiah had when the king allowed him to go and rebuild his city of Jerusalem because I can see this Budget rebuilding Luanshya once again.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Madam Speaker, Luanshya is not a town that you can be proud of right now, but with this Budget, very soon we will be proud of Luanshya. Let me go into detail about why I will now be a proud Member of Parliament for Luanshya.

Madam Speaker, let us talk about water. If you look at page 31, the Speech is directly talking about Luanshya. In Luanshya there is no water. You will be very lucky to see to a drop of water if you are in Luanshya. Hon. Members when you visit Luanshya, remember to come with a 20 litre container of water. However, on page 31, it says that the Government is going to put so much money on water projects to supply water to over a million households in Luanshya It means that the livelihood of the people of Luanshya is going to go up. I am not happy at the moment. Why should I enjoy all this water here in Lusaka and yet in Luanshya my people are not. However, this Budget will turn things upside down. I will then be happy that my people are having water.

Madam Speaker, ask me to show you a frustrated teacher. I will take you with me to Luanshya because the teachers are so frustrated but in this Budget on page 28, it is talking directly to the teachers of Luanshya. In Luanshya, we have twenty-nine schools that are not gazetted and eighteen schools are not well established. This means the teachers in these schools, even though they have been appointed, are not getting the money they are supposed to get in the positions they hold. If one, for example, is a head teacher he does not get the salary of a head teacher because these schools, for a long time, have not been known by the Government. However, this Government is saying on page 28, that it is going to recognise all these teachers and the heads of departments. So you can imagine how excited the teachers in Luanshya will be. In return, it is going to make me a very proud hon. Member of Parliament.

Madam Speaker, we have a hospital in Luanshya called Thomson District Hospital. This is a big hospital. If it were a human being, it would have been dead by now because this hospital laterally has nothing. However, on page 30 of the Budget Speech, we have been told that the Ministry of Health is going to make sure that it supplies equipment. You cannot have an X-ray or scan done at Thomson District Hospital, yet it is a big hospital. People have to go to Ndola or Roan for such services. However, this Budget Speech is saying, the Government is going to buy all these things for the people in Luanshya.

Madam Speaker, we have a farming block that was left by the Israelites and it is just going to waste. Kafubu Farming Block is going to be live now looking at the Government and the way it is putting things in place.

Madam Speaker, the police is now going to have some money because of the increase that has been given. We have a police post in new town which has been built and nicely painted but it has not been occupied. It is not being used and it has been like that for a very long time. However, with this kind of Budget, I am very sure the people in New Town area are going to have a wonderful service.

Madam Speaker, I am happy that in this Budget the hon. Minster told us that he is not going to recall the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Therefore, we are going to accomplish everything that we promised just as our leader some few weeks ago said that Zambia is back in the champion’s league.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Madam Speaker, I say that Luanshya is back now in the champion’s league so other towns must be aware now because we will be competing equally. For the people of Luanshya, even as they listen, I want to tell them that sungeni imikoshi ba Luanshya, ubulungu buleisa na Budget iyi meaning that the people of Luanshya, please be careful and take your time and take care of yourselves because this Budget is bringing good things to Luanshya very soon.

I thank you.

Interruptions

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order!

Mr Simumba (Nakonde): Madam Speaker, I thank you very much for giving the good people of Nakonde an opportunity to add a voice to the debate on the 2023 Budget Address.

Madam Speaker, from the outset, the good people of Nakonde say that the increment on Constituency Development Fund (CDF) from K25.7 to K28.3 is a very good move. I am sure each and every hon. Member of Parliament can commend that, of course with some submissions.

Madam Speaker, the first submission that the good people of Nakonde make is to urge the Government to revisit the CDF guidelines. When you look at Nakonde, the biggest problem that we have are that of the roads. From time in memorial, Nakonde has never had any road tarred in townships. Yet this is the border town that contributes massively to the development of this nation. Even in this Budget, the people of Nakonde are going to contribute. I do not know why we have been neglected in that way. I do not know if they want us to protest. I do not know if they want us to close the border so that the K6 million which we contribute everyday – Kufilila mu nsenga.  We do not want to do that.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Meaning what?

Mr Simumba: Meaning, we get for ourselves the share that we make.

Interruptions

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, Nakonde makes K200 million per month and the people of Nakonde are just asking for K80 million so that their roads can be tarred and yet nothing is happening.  If the CDF guidelines can be revisited, we can be using the same money to undertake the road projects in Nakonde. If that can be considered, I am sure the people of Nakonde would be very happy.

Madam Speaker, if you calculate K200 million per month by twelve, you will find that Nakonde is contributing K2.4 billion to the Treasury of this nation. However, when you come to Nakonde, I always say we live like we participated in the Second World War. We live like we are nomads. We live like we are in transit.

Madam Speaker, the President promised us that once we voted for him, Nakonde was going to be a free tax zone. Up to now, I was checking in the Budget but there is nothing where the tax free zone has been mentioned for Nakonde. This is the issue that we are demanding in this Budget that the Government should consider doing.

Madam Speaker, on page 49, it states:

“ to meet the proposed expenditure, Government expects to raise K167.3 billion.”

Madam Speaker, of this money K54 billion will come from borrowing. I was very surprised to hear the word borrowing from this Budget. This is the song that the people on your right sang against Patriotic Front (PF) to say it was borrowing recklessly and yet it has borrowed.

Madam Speaker, in ten years, the Patriotic Front (PF) borrowed US$10 billion and you can see the development that the PF did.

Interruptions

 

Laughter

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, regarding infrastructure, you can mention many things that have been done. Roads and airports were built from the same US$10 billion. I want the people of Zambia to see which ones are borrowing recklessly.

Madam Speaker, when you consider the K54 billion this Government is going to borrow, and convert it into dollar, you will find that it will borrow US$3,375,000,000 this per year. This Government is borrowing US$3,375,000,000. If you multiple that by five years which they are going to be in office, they will borrow US$16,875,000,000 and PF borrowed 10 billion in ten years. Which one is the reckless Government? 

Hon. Government Members: PF 

Hon. PF Members: UPND.

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, they have even gone further borrowing domestically. Now, what are the effects of that? What we should know is that the small business people would want to borrow domestically, but now the issue is they cannot compete with the Government. The financial institutions cannot lend a private sector because they already have a client which is the Government. So, this means –

Mr Sampa: On a point of order Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, thank you for this rare opportunity to raise a point of order in reference to Standing Order No. 65 which states that the debater should be factual.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Nakonde in order to play around with facts and not mention that in Nakonde, the previous Government set up a free excellent one stop border post connecting us to Tanzania?

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Nakonde, please, try to be factual so that you do not confuse hon. Members and the people out there. You should be focused to the speech that was delivered on the Floor of the House.

 Hon. Member, you may proceed.

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Administration has gone further to borrow from the domestic market. The issue we are talking about is that you cannot compete with the private sectors. The private sector now will start fearing borrowing from the Treasury Bills and Government Bonds because the client, the Government, is already there. The effect of that is that the small business entities will be squeezed and will not have funds to finance their businesses. This means that the private sector will not create jobs. One of the things we have been talking about here is that we need jobs for the youths. The youths were promised jobs but if you squeeze the private sector, where are they going to be employed? The Government cannot manage to employ each and everyone. So, what I am suggesting is to make sure that those people – How many minutes to debate am I remaining with?

Laughter

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, because of the minutes remaining for me to debate, let me talk about the issue of meal allowance.

Madam Speaker, meal allowance is a good move, but if not properly handled, it will cause problems because many people –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Madam Speaker, the theme for the 2022 Budget was ‘Growth, Jobs, and Taking Development Closer to the People’ and for the 2023 Budget, it is ‘Stimulating Economic Growth for Improved Livelihoods’. These are technical themes.

Madam Speaker, for Mitete, this Budget is rise and build so that we are not disgraced. You have to build on the growth to take and improve on the livelihoods of the people.

Mr Kangombe: Very technical.

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, if we will not rise and build on what so far has been done, the stabilisation of the economy, we shall be disgraced like we have just come from the disgrace of defaulting on debt. It is a disgrace internationally and nationally. Now that we have come out   from the disgrace, we have to build on –

Mr Mukosa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No. 203(1) under conduct of members and I quote:

“A member shall at all times conduct himself or herself in a manner that upholds the dignity, integrity, and decorum of the House.”

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to have performed acts of vandalism? He has deliberately destroyed the microphone he uses and now he has resorted using his neighbour’s microphone. He is now debating as if he wants to eat the microphone and no debt has been paid yet.

Madam Speaker, I need your serious ruling before this hon. Members eats our microphones.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, from where I am seated, I saw that there was a small accident where the hon. Member was because he was carrying many books which he wanted to use in his debate. So, I think the small accident that occurred was not intentional. However, I am sure the hon. Member will be very careful so that he does not break some more microphones.

Hon. Member for Mitete, you may proceed.

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, let me talk about improved livelihoods. Just this afternoon, councillors have been given hope that in 2023, their livelihood shall improve. We have just said that let us improve the conditions of service for councillors. However, where shall the resources come from? It is from this Budget, whether you like it or not.

Madam Speaker, meal allowances for university students were introduced in this House through this Budget. It is true that the economy has stabilised, but we have to build on this stabilisation, so that the livelihoods of people can improve.

Madam Speaker, page 1 of the Budget Speech talks about the achievements of the New Dawn or United Party for National Development (UPND) Government so far. All these good things which are so far being experienced and shall have to be experienced are under the New Dawn or UPND Administration as mentioned on page 1.

Madam Speaker, page 19 highlights the disgrace of our country. It is mentioned here that ten years ago, Zambia was producing 800,000 metric tonnes of copper, while the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) was producing 400,000 metric tonnes. The disgrace is that after ten years, the DRC now produces 1.8 million metric tonnes, but Zambia is still at 800,000 metric tonnes. What went wrong?

Mr Sing’ombe: Quality!

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, the last page of the speech, page 61, points out that at independence, we were better than all the Asian countries. Today, however, we are poorer. What went wrong? It is the administration. It is the leadership. Hence, let us rise and build on the stabilisation that has happened now.

Madam Speaker, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) was increased from K1.6 million to K25.7 million and further to K28.3 million. Furthermore, 30,000 teachers were recruited and there will be an additional 4,500 public workers recruited. In Nakonde, the money is sitting in the Nakonde CDF account to build schools, clinics and sink boreholes, just as it shall be in Mitete.

Madam Speaker, according to the Budget Speech, eighty-three health posts that were never completed out of the 650 health posts have been catered for in this Budget. Three shall be constructed in Mitete in Washishi, Lupuyi and Chinonwe Wards. Just like in Mufulira, a secondary school shall be constructed in Libonda. This is the Mitete Boarding Secondary School, which was abandoned. There is a down payment that has already been provided in this Budget and contractor is going back on site.

Madam Speaker, all the contractors had run away from the district. It is only now that they are resurfacing. Economic growth is going to improve the livelihood of people, but it is being built by the UPND or New Dawn Government. Without the UPND or New Dawn Government, the good things that we are seeing shall be lost and we do not want that. We are appealing that what has been stabilised should be built upon and in every constituency.

Madam Speaker, I thank you and assure you that even the microphone will be repaired.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Daka (Chadiza): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving an opportunity to the people of Chadiza to add their voice to this very important Motion. The people of Chadiza –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Can you be a bit nearer to the microphone. You are not very audible.

Mr J. Daka: Madam Speaker, the people of Chadiza will say things the way they are. I will start with acknowledgement of the things that the Government has done right. First of all, I will look at the agricultural sector. In the agricultural sector, the people of Chadiza have welcomed the opening or revival of farming blocks through a loan to the tune of US$300 million from the World Bank.

Madam Speaker, the people of Chadiza are, however, not happy with the manner in which the current Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) is being managed. The manner in which FISP is being managed, the people of Chadiza feel like it will disadvantage the aged and disabled. So, I am appealing to the Government to relook at the strategy being used to execute FISP for the 2023/2023 Farming Season.

Madam Speaker, the people of Chadiza acknowledge the Government’s effort in trying to come up with a one-stop border post at Chanida, with the hope that this will trigger many economic activities, which will eventually create jobs and employment for the youths.

Madam Speaker, however, in the energy sector, the people of Chadiza are not happy with the manner in which the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) Strategic Plan is being implemented because most of the projects under REA have faced stagnation or there is not much progress that has been recorded under REA programmes.

Madam Speaker, the people of Chadiza would want to acknowledge the good efforts that the Government has put into the education sector. The free education policy is most welcome. Regardless of the fact that there are challenges, the people of Chadiza take them as work in progress.

Madam Speaker, as regards decentralisation, the increase of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) by the Government from K25.7 million to K28.3 million is most welcome. However, the people of Chadiza are appealing to the Government to ensure that it relooks into the guidelines. The guidelines should be loosened up so that the people of Chadiza can easily access the mush needed resources for the much needed development.

Madam Speaker, this constituency has been left too far behind. Chadiza is left behind in almost everything. Therefore, the people of Chadiza are looking forward to the CDF programmes. To me, it is an opportunity for this Government to prove that it is a different Government indeed. This can only be proven by delivering what the people of Chadiza have been lacking for long and it is simply development. Simple development interventions have been failing in the past and the onus is on the people who are in the driving seat now to drive the vehicle in the right direction.

Madam Speaker, when it comes to water and sanitation, Chadiza is a dry area such that, if I take you to my constituency right now, you will find that most of the boreholes and water bodies have dried up. People are sharing drinking water from shallow wells and streams with animals.

Hon. PF Members: Boreholes have broken down. 

Mr J. Daka: Madam Speaker even the pipes for boreholes have collapsed. Most of these pipes are old. Therefore, I am appealing to the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation to ensure that he looks at the people of Chadiza in this aspect, in a positive manner. Let us have water interventions. The hope is there. I have seen that in the Budget, they have indicated that they have a strategic plan. There is a programme on water investment worth about US$6 billion which the President launched. So, I am appealing to the Government to expedite this water investment strategy which has been launched already.

Madam Speaker, I will now go to a matter which touches my heart a lot. It is on transport and logistics as stated on pages 25, 26 and 56 up to 57. I will specifically go to the road sub sector. We were well guided that for rural connectivity, the hon. Minister is encouraging us to use the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to procure earth moving equipment so that we use it to open up our feeder roads. On this matter, I appeal to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to extend the incentives that have been extended to the special purpose vehicles (SPVs) under Public-Private Partnerships (PPPs) to be extended to the local authorities so that they can procure the earth moving equipment at a cheaper price than the current price.

Madam Speaker, I have seen most hon. Members of Parliament procuring equipment which, as an expert, I know very well cannot last for a long period of time. Earth moving equipment is faced with so many challenges that if you buy a fake machine, it will not last long. You might be procuring earth moving equipment every year. Therefore, I am appealing to the hon. Minister to extend the waiver that he has given the SPVs under PPPs to us so that we procure quality equipment. Let us also enjoy the waiver.

Madam Speaker, I also conducted a simple study on the PPPs. First of all, let me indicate to the House that I am impressed with what the hon. Minister has brought under PPPs. There are four incentives which I have been crying for from the first day I landed in this House. I told this House that the current Public Private Partnership (PPP) Act of 2009 is toothless or impotent because it does not have any incentives which would make it bite for it to perform. However, I am happy that the hon. Minister, this time around, has come to the House with incentives. Those are the very incentives that I appeal to him to extend to local authorities.

Madam Speaker, when I looked at the roads that he indicated to be considered under PPPs, I picked two. I picked the road from Lusaka to Kabwe which is basically 140 kilometres. In 2021, a Toll Gate which is between Lusaka and Kabwe recorded a total of 2.5 million vehicles on both sides. When I conducted a simple arithmetic analysis, I discovered that taking into account that the SPVs or entities which were entrusted to develop these particular sections of the road – I took many factors into account.

In short, Madam Speaker, what I am trying to say is that it will take a minimum of ten years for any entity to recover fully an investment that they would invested under this section of the road. If you look at ten years, it is most welcome. However, when I looked at the other section, the Chingola to Solwezi, it would take thirty-six years for full recovery of investment. Now, if you compare Chingola to Solwezi to some of these roads which are being advertised under PPPs, one wonders which roads will ever be worked on under this strategy. So, my appeal to the Government is that they should have a plan B –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Mr Kangombe (Sesheke): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for recognising the good and humble people of Sesheke. You may wish to note that through God’s divine providence, I now have graduated from just being Romeo Lileko Kangombe but have added three letters, S.N.R, at the end, basically because I have been highly blessed with a very handsome bouncing baby boy.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: Kangombe senior!

Mr Kangombe: Madam Speaker, being Kangombe senior, representing the good and humble people of Sesheke from the outset, let me indicate that we fully support the 2023 Budget.

Madam Speaker, coming from a background where almost everything was in shambles, it is very difficult even for my hon. colleagues on your left side to fully interrogate this Budget because everything is completely in order.

Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

Mr Kangombe: Madam Speaker, let me touch the aspect of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) which even my hon. colleagues on your left, during their campaigns, were indicating that vote for PF for continuity and IMF bailout package. You may ask me, and the country may be wondering why our hon. Colleagues failed to score the IMF deal. I will give you a very practical example that, if today, I borrowed money from my hon. Colleague, the hon. Member for Nakonde, but instead of me showing remorse that I do not have resources to pay him back, I actually walk in the street sniffing a cigarette rolled on a piece of a K100 note.

Mr Mutelo: A dollar!

Mr Kangombe: A dollar note.

Madam Speaker, the manner in which the resources were being used by our hon. Colleagues was alarming even for the people we were owing, as nation, to feel pity for us. However, the prudent way of utilising resources has enabled the New Dawn administration to score the IMF package. Why I am saying this?

Madam Speaker, you can see that the New Dawn administration has qualities of good governance. Not just that. Some of us, who are villagers, have also been humbled in the manner this Budget was tabled on the Floor of the House. When I was listening the hon. Minister informing the nation as well as this House, I was a happy man because of the increase of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) because, now, most of the things that we could not do in the past can actually be tackled by just mere CDF. This is not just for the people of Sesheke but for the people of Zambia, Nakonde included, where my hon. Colleague comes from. Two border towns as well as Chanida and others.

Madam Speaker, when the New Dawn administration came into power and prior to that, its main objective was firstly, to dismantle the highly contracted loans. This we have achieved. Second objective was to clear the payroll so that we can create space for new entrants. This, we have seen in a space of one year, the New Dawn administration has employed thousands of teachers. Not just that, we are still being assured that next year, again, another bunch of people are going to be employed. What does this translate to for the people of Imusho, Luapungu –

Mr Kasandwe: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kasandwe: Madam Speaker, my point of order is on the Member on the Floor, Hon. Kangombe.

Hon. UPND Members: Which Standing Order are you citing?

Mr Kasandwe: Standing Order No. 65 is on being factual. The hon. Member has just misled this House by saying that United Party for National Development (UPND) Government has dismantled the debt while they are busy trying to renegotiate and restructure the debt they want to pay in future. Is the hon. for Sesheke in order to mislead this House and the country at large that the UPND Government has already dismantled the debt when in fact not? They are trying to negotiate to restructure the debt.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Of course we know that the debt is still there. It has not been dismantled. So, the hon. Member on the Floor must be focussed and use facts as he is debating.

Hon. Member. You may continue.

Mr Kangombe: Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Administration has managed to restructure the debt in the sense that, now, we have a breather through the IMF bailout package that even the people of Bangweulu, through it, will be able to benefit. They are already benefiting through the CDF. They have also benefitted through the teacher recruitment and the free education. In fact all hon. Member of Parliament here have benefitted. Not just that, they have also benefitted through the medical personnel who have been recruited by this New Dawn Administration. I am reliably informed that people are happy. Standing here, I can visibly see that the hon. Member for Bangweulu is also very happy with the New Dawn Administration.

Madam Speaker, coming from any other border town, like my hon. Colleague from Nakonde, the New Dawn Administration has already inspired the tourism sector. When you cross over to the Namibian side, you will see how the Namibian side looks like. There is the Caprivi Strip region and the Zambezi region. The infrastructure is good. Through good governance and the increase of CDF, I can rest assure you that in the next five years, the face of Sesheke will be uplifted - a thing that was never there in the past.

Madam Speaker, like I said earlier on, debating this Motion is very difficult because everything is totally in order.

Madam Speaker, with these few words, I thank you on behalf of the humble and good people of Sesheke.

Hon. Member: Chilubi has also benefitted from the CDF.

Mr R. Kangombe: Chilubi has also benefited, so let us hear what he will say.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Chilubi benefited from the Patriotic Front (PF).

Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the people of Chilubi an opportunity to have a say on the Budget. To start with, the people of Chilubi register their disappointment especially on the road sector. Upon the arrival of the New Dawn Government, Chilubi has been a victim many cancelled projects. I am talking about the Luwingu/Chaba Road ...

Mr Mulundu: Just appreciate.

Mr Fube: ... where they have cancelled the project. There was –

Madam Speaker, can I be protected.

The First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member you are protected, you may continue.

Mr Fube: The Luwingu/Chaba Road which was started. Of course it was a gravel road, nicely gravelled compacted road which they started and went up to Mfuwe. I did engage the hon. Minister with a question through this House. His answer was that they were going to continue working on it. As at now, the status is that they cut the road works. Another road going to Mwape Kalunga, where it is swampy, has also had its contract terminated including many other feeder roads.

Madam Speaker, I am a sad Member of Parliament. Let me indicate that such kind of governance is not going to help in any way especially that Chilubi is not only a fishing environment but also an agricultural environment. If you go back to your statistics you will discover that in the 2015/2016 farming season, Chilubi was the highest producer of maize in the Northern Province.

Madam Speaker, having said that, let me venture into agriculture. The people of Chilubi submit that they are confused about the introduction of the Comprehensive Agriculture Support Programme (CASP) from the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) because of the following reasons. If you read the Budget, you will find that this time around, the Government, unlike in the 2022 Budget, the hon. Minister was very clear about what they were going to give the farmers. Even when what they promised in the 2022 Budget was not delivered. If you look at the 2022 Budget on FISP, the hon. Minister said that the PF used to contribute K1700 to supplement the K400 the farmers used to contribute. Further, he went on to say that this Government will be giving K3600 and the farmer will be adding a K400. I do not know how that was done because the volume of bags farmers have received this season has even gone down compared to what the PF used to give.

Madam Speaker, having said, let me also add that agriculture is crop production, fisheries and livestock. Within the confine of time, I can demonstrate that the PF did touch all those areas. For instance, they invested K375 million into the fisheries subsector thereby providing 96 million fingerlings. The production of fish of feed was about 300 metric tonnes and made Zambia a net exporter of fish feed at the time. That was the drive. Now, looking at what has been provided so far –

Madam Speaker, as we speak, agriculture is the main stay of almost 80 per cent of the rural populations. However, Zambia is only utilising 15 per cent of arable land. The investment that is going on there is not even promoting the subsistence farmer. When you want to engage in agriculture, we look at agriculture as traditional, market and planned agriculture. However, you when you look at the system that has been laid, especially the CASP, it does not carry the adrenalin that supports the small scale farmer especially that the small scale farmer has just been subjected to extension services.

Madam Speaker, you and I understand that extension services are mainly advisory services. The hon. Minister indicated in the Budget that there was a crop decline in the 2021/2022 season. In this case, there was a decline in rice, cassava and maize production. This puts us in a very awkward position as it entails bargaining our crops as raw material and so on and so forth.

Madam Speaker, the people of Chilubi are also shocked that there is no mechanism for value addition for our crops. I think the people of Chilubi will also like to link this to issues which they have demonstrated before. I wish the hon. Member for Chisamba, who is also the Minister of Information and Media, could share that we have left a land mark in her Constituency of how agriculture should run by building a hall mark of a dam.

Madam Speaker, the people of Chilubi will be ungrateful to not appreciate some of the factors in the Budget. This also goes to the allocation to Rural Electrification Authority (REA). This allocation is going to help the people of Chilubi who are still struggling. As you may know, the rural population is only benefiting about 8.1 per cent from the national grid. We also need production from the energy sector so that we can develop the rural areas so that they venture into mechanised farming and other factors.

Madam Speaker, let me hint on the issue of water harvesting. I know that in this year’s Budget, the Minister has talked about developing forty dams, out of which, I think we would tackle sixteen of them. However, when you look at it, the development of dams is not necessarily water harvesting. When we look at the millions of litres that fall during the rainy season, it just gets its way into different oceans such the India Ocean, the Pacific Ocean and all that, without being trapped. So, the people of Chilubi want to emphasise that water harvesting is going to help us in many areas by the provision of water and the like. However, we also want to venture in winter farming, not just winter maize farming but winter farming which cuts across different crops especially in areas where we have water such as Chilubi and many other areas that have natural water bodies. At the end of the day, we may have food throughout. We will then be talking about being food secure as a country.

Madam Speaker, may I also say that the emphasis on extension officers should be redrafted to empower the farmer because even when the farmer has been given knowledge or advice by extension officers who are carrying much of the Budget this year, the farmer would need to apply the knowledge by the empowerment that would have come through the Government window.

Madam Speaker, in the interest of time, the people of Chilubi will try to venture in different Heads when we open the whole Budget. For now, we have given you dyonko. Dyonko means sample.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, let me add a word to the debate on the Motion on the Floor, which is the 2023 Budget. Everybody in Zambia has come to realise that, really, there is a change of the Government. We are from a background where favours where placed in town. The residents in town received many benefits. However, 2021, brought in the United Party for National Development (UPND), and the coming in of the UPND Government was the beginning of opening up rural areas. I do not need to go to the university to know that development cannot come without money. That item, money, which we are discussing here, is everybody’s hope. It is the basis of development. The money was only for some section of this country ,...

 A phone rung

Mr Miyutu: ...whilst the rest of this country did not receive it. Therefore, not receiving money meant lack of development. We could hear the mention of development in Lusaka, but who said Lusaka is Kalabo? Who said that Lusaka is Kaputa? Who said that Lusaka is Shangombo and all other rural areas? Who said that? Now, let us see what the UPND New Dawn Government has done to open up rural areas. It allocated K25.7 million towards the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). What that means is that a constituency will receive a monetary value of K25 million. That was the beginning of the New Dawn Government. People said, “No, these are just being political.” Today, who can stand and say, it was political? 

Madam Speaker, to add value and build on the present –

Mr Mukosa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, the Standing Orders of this House require that for Parliament to sit, we need to make a quorum, which means that hon. Members are supposed to be fifty-four in the House. However, when you count the hon. Members who are available, you will find that they are about forty-two. This means we are below a quorum.

Madam Speaker, is this House in order to continue sitting when we do not have a quorum?

I seek your ruling and guidance, Madam.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Whips, what is happening with your people? In total, we have fifty-two hon. Members in attendance but we are supposed to have around fifty-four hon. Members. So, for that, we are going to ring the bells until we have a quorum in order for us to continue. All whips from the Patriotic Front (PF), the Independent Whip and the United Party for National Development (UPND) Whip, can you please do your job?

Ring the bells.

Business was suspended from 1849 until 1851

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We have the quorum now. We may continue.

May the hon. Member for Kalabo Central continue.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I was saying that we are building from the 2022 Budget –

Mr Chibombwe: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chibombwe: Madam Speaker –

Interruptions

Mr Chibombwe: Nkandu leka ukusabail.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member for Kalabo in order to bring his ill-conceived lamentations on the Floor of the House that development was only happening in Lusaka when it is a known fact that one of the most expensive undertakings by the previous regime is the Mongu/Kalabo Bridge worth trillions of Kwacha?

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, can you please cite the Standing Order?

Hon. Opposition Members: 65!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Chibombwe:Madam Speaker, Standing Order No. 65.

Mr Chaatila: Ah, leakage!

Mr Chibombwe: Is the hon. Member in order to mislead this nation by his ill-conceived lamentations that development was only Lusaka when it is a known fact that the Mongu/Kalabo Road was one of the most expensive undertakings by the previous regime worth trillions of Kwachas constructed by AVIC –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You are debating, hon. Member.

Mr Chibombwe: Madam Speaker, I need your serious ruling.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Bahati, you are coming from different constituencies. He is from Kalabo and there are people who are from Lusaka. Those are his views. He is trying to compare Kalabo and Lusaka. That is why he came up with that statement. So, for that, the hon. Member is in order because he is comparing where he is coming from saying there is no development there, but when he comes to Lusaka he is seeing many things. So, those are his views and you have your own.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyutu:Madam Speaker, in 2023 the CDF has gone up to K28.3 million. This interprets into an increased number of bursaries for students going into secondary schools, increased numbers of youth who are going for trade skills and increased infrastructure development in the rural areas.

Mr Chaatila: Including Bahati!

Mr Miyutu: So, by the end of 2023, all these constituencies, including Bahati, will be boasting of improved infrastructure such as teachers’ houses, classrooms and clinics. Their infrastructure will increase.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, the 2023 Budget has allocated K4.6 billion to the health sector. This includes drugs. The issue of drugs has a background which started in the previous regime. It Is not a new story. So, being an old story, it takes time to heal.

So, when you look at the allocations there is an increase which is unprecedented. This increase will result into increased supply of drugs in rural areas including Bangweulu and Chilubi. They will receive the drugs from the allocations in the 2023 Budget.

Madam Speaker, there in an increase in the allocation to the education sector to cover up the abandoned projects. Many projects like secondary schools were started verbally and stalled. Money was spent but construction stalled. However, the New Dawn in the 2023 Budget has allocated money to complete all the stalled projects. Meaning, there is an increase of student’s coverage at secondary school level and primary school level. There were primary schools which were upgraded by word of mouth. We have schools in Kalabo like Sihole. The hon. Minister of Education just announced that Sihole had been upgraded it to a secondary school. That announcement did not carry with it the physical structure. However, the 2023 Budget has taken care of that pronouncement which was made by the people who did it verbally without the financial support. So the people of Kalabo welcome the 2023 Budget as being a build up of the 2022 Budget.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr C. Mpundu (Chembe): Madam Speaker, I thank you very much for giving the people of Chembe an opportunity to echo a voice on this important Motion.

Madam Speaker, I will be very objective as I debate on this Motion. To start with there are certain things that are good and not right. However, it is out of a wrong thing where a right thing comes. To start with, the Constitutional Development Fund (CDF) is welcome by everybody as hon. Members of Parliament. The completion of schools that have stalled, I have one in my constituency, Chembe Secondary School which has stalled for some time and completing it is welcome.

Madam Speaker, when we talk about scaling up of the Social Cash Transfer, it is a welcome move. The improvement of tourism is a welcome move as long as the tourism improvement should move to the northern circuit.  Meaning, Chembe should also be part and parcel of that improvement in terms of tourism because we have many water bodies.

Madam Speaker, when we talk of water and sanitation, we need to see people in Chembe Constituency graduating from boreholes to water reticulation plants. I was expecting the Budget to come out fully with all the water bodies that surround Luapula. We need to have water reticulation plants in order for people to graduate from boreholes to piped water.

Madam Speaker, I do not need to labour much, I just need to remind us that many are times that we, who are called governors or politicians, in most developing countries have a tendency of focusing on economic growth.

Yes, it is good to talk about economic growth and even bring in number and state that the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) such as the micro objective says that it will grow to at least 4 per cent. It can even grow up to 10 per cent. The same applies to inflation. It can also maybe even move from 6 to 8 per cent, the real thing is what is it or the impact it has to the three indictors that development experts have talked about. The key indicators include:

1. life expectance of people;
2. standard of living of the people; and
3. the illiteracy levels of the people.

Madam Speaker, the three indicators have to move in tandem with the economic growth that we are talking about. If it is not doing so, then we have to interrogate the economic growth because in a simple definition, as it has been defined in the Budget Speech, economic growth is just the production of goods and services. However, the big question is: Are the people at grassroot level able to buy those goods and services. Are they able to access them? That is the big question that we need to ask ourselves.

Madam Speaker, in a nutshell, let me say that, as governors, let us avoid looking at economic growth from the face value because face value will mislead us. However, if the economic growth we are achieving is pointing to the three indicators, then that economic growth needs to be supported.

Madam Speaker, I do not need to labour and talk much, but all the people in Chembe are saying that they hope this Budget will change the living standard of the people of Chembe by improving their lifespan and improving their standards of living, especially to those who are in acute poverty. At the same time, increasing and improving literacy levels because Chembe has high literacy levels, we need to work on that. Never again should we continue using figures that GDP will grow to this and that because it can grow even to 20 percent. Even inflation, if well done, can grow but if it is not going towards to the three indicators, then, that economic growth needs to be question. So, let move our focus to not be looking at the economic growth from the face value, but need to learn to interrogate it.

Madam Speaker, with those few words, I thank you.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chinkuli (Kanyama): Madam Speaker, I thank you for this rare opportunity that you have given people of Kanyama to add a word to the debate on the floor.

Madam Speaker, allow me to start my debate with the issue of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Firstly, I thank the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government for having given us the K25.7 million for 2022 and increasing it to K28.3 million. That is a progressive move if we are to achieve economic activities in our constituencies.

Madam Speaker, it so saddening to hear a number of people trying to demean the CDF. My appeal to my fellow hon. Members of Parliament is that we should not become a stumbling block in achieving what the New Dawn Government has given the constituents. The money is not ours, but for theirs, the people who sent us here. That is their money.

Madam Speaker, allow me to look at the good governance environment. The New Dawn Government is determined to fight corruption. Corruption has left families and the country in a bad state. That scourge is something that should not be tolerated. The New Dawn Government is trying to build a strong governance system. We have been told through the speech that come this year, the New Dawn Government is coming up with a Governance Analysis Diagnostic Report.

Madam Speaker, this will look at the weaknesses in governance and see how best those weaknesses can be addressed. There is no way you can fight that scourge if you do not provide a platform of policies. There should be credible policies in place. We are looking at rules and regulations that are supposed to be put in place to fight that scourge.

Madam Speaker, in this country, financial management has been porous. Finances were just floating here and there without anyone managing to get them. However, this is the time that at least the New Dawn Government is coming up with measures. To fight that scourge, you need institutions like law enforcers and other oversight institutions to be well equipped. They need to be given the ammunition or tools to fight this scourge.

Madam Speaker, I am so humbled and I proudly stand here to mention that we have been told the Government is increasing funding to these two sectors; law enforcers and other oversight institutions. With this, I believe we will be able to fight this scourge.

Mr Sampa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, apart from that, if you go further –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

There is a point of order from the hon. Member for Matero. What is your point of order?

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, at the outset, I congratulate the hon. Member for Monze Central for acting as the Leader of Government Business in the House, today, for the first time ever. Congratulations my brother, that is the way it should be.

Madam Speaker, it is with great pain that I raise this point of order on the hon. Member for Kanyama, who is my neighbour. I have sat here listening and Standing Order 65 says that the debater should stick to the topic. The topic here is the Budget. I have sat painfully listening to hear if there is anything he will touch on Kanyama or Matero to do with the Budget, but he is talking about the army and security and mentioning figures that we never see in the Budget.

Madam Speaker, is he in order to stray from the speech?

I seek your ruling.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Matero should know that the National Budget takes care of everything and includes all the ministries found in this country. So, it just depends how the hon. Member chose the issues to focus on that were presented in the Budget. However, hon. Member for Kanyama, please try to be as focused as possible on the Budget that is there.

You may continue, hon. Member.

Mr Chinkuli: Madam Speaker, thank you for that guidance.

Madam Speaker, I was saying that the UPND Government has increased funding to two sectors; law enforcers and other oversight institutions, to fight this scourge that brought misery into people’s lives.

Madam Speaker, apart from that, we have read in the speech that the Government is trying to change the education curriculum so that it can include, among others, anti-corruption literacy in our schools.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, considering that this is my third time acting as the Leader of the Opposition, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Hon. Opposition Members: Leader of the Opposition?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1911 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 13^th October, 2022.

____________