Thursday, 30th June, 2022

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Thursday, 30th June, 2022

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_______

MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

REV. KATUTA, HON. MEMBER FOR CHIENGE, ON PEOPLE LIVING IN THE GAME RESERVE ALONG TUTA ROAD

Rev. Katuta: On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, we have a game reserve area along the Tuta Road. When you drive on this road, and get to the Mukuku Bridge on the Luapula River and look to the left side as you come from the direction of the Central Province, you have a very good view of animals there.

Currently, however, that place is becoming a village for certain people. The previous hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock, Prof. Nkandu Luo, managed to clear them from that area. However, as we speak, we have more people living there, including those from the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC).

Madam Speaker, my concern is that we are going to start losing wildlife. We cannot have people doing business night and day in the name of selling fish in that area.

Madam Speaker, animals in the Kasanka National Park are really in danger. There is no way that animals, such as impalas, could live together with human beings.

Madam Speaker, I really seek your serious indulgence in this issue because those people are not even supposed to build a village along that bridge on the Luapula River.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you for the matter that you have raised.

Is there any other matter of urgent public importance?

MR SIMUMBA, HON. MEMBER FOR NAKONDE, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT, MR NKOMBO ON DILAPIDATED ROADS IN NAKONDE

Mr Simumba (Nakonde): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving the good people of Nakonde the chance to raise this important issue under Standing Order 134.

Madam Speaker, Nakonde is one of the busiest borders. However, it faces many challenges because of the situation it is in currently. As a result of the dilapidated roads in the town centre, it records many accidents. Each and every day, there is a record of an accident and people are dying due to the dilapidated roads that we have.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development in order to keep quiet while the people of Nakonde die due to dilapidated roads?

I seek your serious guidance on this matter, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I will start with the matter of urgent public importance raised by the hon. Member for Chienge.

I believe that this issue of people selling fish along that road and animals living with people has been ongoing for some time. I believe that the best way to tackle or solve that issue is to engage the hon. Minister of Tourism and other relevant institutions to see how those people can be relocated.

Whereas the matter you have raised, hon. Member for Chienge, is important, it is not a matter of life and death because it has been there for some time. The problem has long been there. People have been on that bridge selling fish to try and earn a living, and all the while, with animals around.

So, it is a matter that can be addressed, but maybe, not as a matter of urgent public importance. You can find other ways to try and resolve it.

As I said yesterday, hon. Members of Parliament in the area should engage the relevant institutions. Working together with the community, we could sort out such issues. To wait until the matter is raised on the Floor of the House may not help. If the Government does not do anything today, what happens? So, it is a matter that you can follow-up with relevant institutions.

Coming to the matter of urgent public importance raised by the hon. Member for Nakonde on the issue of dilapidated roads and accidents, I believe there have been several ministerial statements touching on this matter. It is not only in Nakonde, but a number of places where roads are dilapidated. So, it is like that is the state of the nation; roads are in bad state.

The hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development and hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development have been on the Floor of this House explaining why roads are in such state. They have explained that the issue of funding was a challenge and that when the funds are available, something will be done.

However, if the matter is so urgent, hon. Member for Nakonde, I would urge you to get in touch with the respective hon. Ministers to try and address it. Do not wait to come and raise matters here as matters of urgent public importance because that way would not solve the problem there and then. These are long term problems which need long term solutions.

So, let us learn to engage. We are one people. Let us live together. Let us try to resolve problems affecting the people of Zambia together as one unit.

I thank you very much.

Madam Speaker gave the Floor to Mr Mabeta.

Mr Mabeta was inaudible.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kankoyo, are you there? We need to make progress. If you are not there, we move on.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

COMPLETION OF MKUSHI TOWNSHIP ROADS

343. Mr C. Chibuye (Mkushi North) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

       (a)   when the construction of township roads in Mkushi District will be completed; and

       (b)    what the cause of the delay in completing the project is.

Madam Speaker called on the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development to respond, but he was not in the Chamber.

Madam Speaker: Can I get a report from the Government Chief Whip or the Deputy Chief Whip. What is happening?

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Is the House going to wait for the hon. Minister?

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Madam Speaker: May I be informed as to why the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development is not in the House? The Order Paper was circulated and we all knew what was happening.

Ms Kasune (Keembe): Sorry, Madam Speaker. The hon. Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development will actually respond because the substantive hon. Minister who was supposed to be here has been delayed due to a Cabinet meeting.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, this is a House of rules. In the event that the relevant hon. Minister is not available, there is an acting hon. Minister, in which case, that communication should have been made to you or, at least, to the Government Chief Whip or the Leader of the Opposition. To be able to make temporal arrangements within the House is not taking Government Business seriously. So, we strongly object to that question being transferred to another hon. Minister in the absence of that proper communication.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I remember a point of order that was raised yesterday, stating that hon. Ministers were not attending the House, and here we are, just to re-affirm that concern. Just the very next day, we are in this state of affairs.

Since my office was not notified that there was going to be another hon. Minister acting on behalf of the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, the best that I can do is to defer the question. However, it has to be answered today. Please, hon. Deputy Government Whip, make sure that the hon. Minister appears before this House to come and attend to this matter.

In the meantime, we will go to the next question, but it should be the last time that we are going to do this. The work of Parliament takes precedence over everything else. So, that question is deferred, and we can move on to the next one.

SMALL AND MEDIUM ENTERPRISES GROWTH MONITORING MECHANISMS

344. Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East) asked the Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development:

       (a)  whether the Government has any mechanisms to monitor the growth of small and medium enterprises

             (SMEs); and

       (b)   if so, what the mechanisms are.

The Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development (Mr Mubanga): Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development, which is a newly created ministry, has plans to monitor the growth of small and medium enterprises (SMEs) in the country, generally.

Madam Speaker, we have departments that have been set up to carry out this monitoring. The ministry has district officers who are monitoring small and medium enterprise development in the country.

Madam Speaker, as a ministry, we are represented in all the 116 districts. From the headquarters’ point of view, we are reinforcing this task as well. We are in the process of making sure that our officers have transport. Therefore, we are in the process of making sure that we acquire motorcycles for our officers in each and every one of the 116 districts.

Madam Speaker, I also want to emphasise that co-operatives, which were under the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, are actually under the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development. We have already set up mechanisms through that establishment and our staff is giving quarterly reports.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, in line with the question that was raised by the hon. Member for Solwezi East, I am aware that the previous Government undertook the construction of ten industrial yards in ten different provinces. In Kitwe there are industrial yards that were built in Mufuchani. I also know that the previous Government did build industrial yards in Chipata and that there are industrial yards under construction in Mongu. This simply signifies that there was work that was done towards achieving the question that was raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Solwezi East.

Madam Speaker, when will the operations of those industrial yards that were built by the previous Government in all the provinces be actualised?

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, yes, indeed, the industrial yards were constructed in seven or eight provinces. We have not commissioned them yet, but we have a few small companies that are operating in those industrial yards. I visited the ones in Mongu and Kasama and I saw that there is an appetite for the small and medium businesses to get into our industrial yards.

Madam Speaker, I should state that they are all about 90 or 95 per cent. Therefore, the ministry is in the process of commisssioning them.

Madam Speaker, the industrial yards are actually under the Citizens Economic Empoernment Commission (CEEC), an institution which is under my ministry. Very soon, we will be able to commissin the industrial yards. We will invite small and medium businesses to come and occup those industrial yards.

Madam Speaker, I want to tell the nation that the idea behind the industrial yards is to encourage smaller manufacturiing and processing plants. They should occupy the industrial yards.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, I ask this question in relation to the various small businesses and enterprises that we see around the country such as welding, fabrication of various metal items, scrap metal dealing and makeshift trading stores where all sorts of merchandise is sold.

Madam Speaker, if we do not have proper mechanisms for monitoring them and they are not registered, we lose revenue in terms of tax collection. If we compare with countries like Botswana, all makeshift traders, metal fabricators and so on and so forth are registered. There is no way anybody can go and sell or buy copper wires or anything like that if one is not registered. So, I thought that maybe we had a mechanism.

Madam Speaker, in relation to these kinds of enterprises, does the ministry have mechanisms to monitor tax evasion or revenue collection from them, if they are not registered?

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, it is extremely imperative that we understand the creation of the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development. This ministry is there to try to foster and encourage small businesses.

Madam Speaker, to answer the hon. Member’s question, we encourage everyone operating small and medium ventures to formalise and register them. It is our mandate, and once they are registered and we have them on the data base, it is easier for the Government to collect the revenue that is required. However, I want to say that it is a process. We sensitise them on the fact that for them to succeed and to get incentives from the Government, they need to be registered. For those that are not registered, it is difficult for the Government to know them and for the ministry to have them in the data base. So, I would like to appeal, even through this honourable House, to small and medium businesses to be formalised by registering with the Government. This way, it is easier for them to benefit from the incentives that the Government is putting in place.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr C. M. Mpundu (Chembe): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has talked nicely about the registration of small and medium enterprises (SMEs). What mechanism has the hon. Minister put in place for SMEs which are in rural areas like Chembe where the Patents and Company Registration Agency (PACRA), Zambia Public Procurement Authority (ZPPA) and such other institutions and regulatory bodies, where people can register their businesses do not exist?

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, when I stood to answer the question, I said that the ministry has representatives in all the 116 districts. Those businesses in Chembe can go through the District Commissioner’s (DC’s) office which will be able to direct them to where the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development is and they will be helped to register their companies.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simumba (Nakonde): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister repeatedly said that the ministry is in the process of getting some vehicles for its officers. That is my worry because the ministry was created nine months ago. Does it mean the ministry has no funding? He keeps saying that it is in the process of purchasing some vehicles.

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, I did not say vehicles, I said motor bikes. That is what I said. However, to answer the question, the budget has no provision for my ministry to buy vehicles for all the 116 officers. However, the ministry is making arrangements to try and find ways and means of procuring motor bikes for our officers in all the 116 districts. We are in the process.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving the people of Itezhi-Tezhi an opportunity to ask a question to the hon. Minister.

Madam Speaker, the growth of most small and medium enterprises (SMEs) is hampered by the lack of tax incentives and cumbersome formalities. Most SMEs are now struggling as a result of poor tax incentives. Are we anticipating any possible tax incentives towards SMEs? If so, are there any consultative processes that the Ministry has already started, in the interest of time, to bring everyone on board so that the conversation is built and the SMEs are able to form and be incentivised as they get established?

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the question, which is extremely important. I think that SMEs should be encouraged and excited that at this point in time, we are consulting with each and every one of them. Those with challenges, especially in terms of taxes, should come forward and talk about them.

Yes, my office has received a number of complaints and told of the challenges concerning taxes, especially for SMEs. In the next Budget, we want to make sure that we introduce incentives for SMEs. However, at this period in time, I encourage the small and medium businesses to come forward so that we look at the challenges they are facing and table them together. We could find a solution that could be included in the next Budget.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, in the hon. Minister earlier response to the question that was asked by the hon. Member for Kamfinsa concerning industrial yards, he stated that the Government was yet to officially open them. My concern is: How much is the Government doing in terms of outreach programmes to sensitise small and medium enterprises (SMEs) to be ready so that once industrial yards are opened, they would be equipped with knowledge on both the yards and how to go about their businesses?

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC), which is an institution under my ministry, will run an advert to try and let SMEs know that industrial yards will be commissioned. There will also be an advert to try to sensitise our people about industrial yards and then they can apply to occupy them. Information will be out in the public so that our people know.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, the question specifically mentions ‘mechanisms’ that the Government is using to monitor growth. Maybe the hon. Minister could share with us the pillars of growth the Government is encouraging SMEs to participate in so that they can contribute to the welfare of our economy and create the jobs or, indeed, wealth that we are looking for?

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, could the hon. Member repeat the question? I think I missed it.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kantanshi, remember to ask questions which are supplementary, please. Do not bring in new issues.

Mr Mumba: Yes, Madam Speaker. The question –

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mumba: Waisafye.

Madam Speaker: The point of order is on whom?

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, have I been permitted?

Madam Speaker: I am asking; on whom are you raising the point of order?

Mr Mung’andu: He was on the Floor of the House (pointing at Mr Mumba).

Madam Speaker: Is it on the hon. Member for Kantanshi?

Mr Mung’andu: No, Madam Speaker. It is a breach of the Standing Orders that I would like to bring to your attention.

Madam Speaker: When did this breach occur?

Mr Mung’andu: Today and now, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, my point of order is pursuant to Standing Order 210; the one that talks about attendance to parliamentary sittings by hon. Members. Just yesterday, I raised serious concerns on a very important issue. I have been observing – this is the second time I am returning to this Parliament; I have been here in this Parliament for the past five years and this will be my sixth year – and I have never witnessed absenteeism by hon. Ministers like the way this New Dawn Government’s hon. Ministers doing it. Is this what His Excellency meant when he said he would raise the bar of leadership?

Laughter

Rev Katuta: Fire them!

Hon. Member: Also dozing.

Mr Mung’andu: As if that was not enough, Madam Speaker, today, I can safely say, the whole House only has two hon. Ministers present. You can imagine; just two hon. Ministers. Has this Cabinet resigned so that we go for a general election or not? These hon. Ministers should take Parliamentary work seriously. This is the only august House which keeps them in check. It is only this House that will make them work. Now, for them to be absconding and leaving this Parliament to us, in the Opposition in here, is worrisome.

All the power, in terms of hierarchy of the Opposition, is here taking Parliament seriously. It is a concern that the leader of the Executive, the President, should actually pay attention to. We cannot be here with only two hon. Ministers present.

Hon. Opposition Members: The Vice-President!

Mr Mung’andu: The Vice-President is ever here, hon. Colleagues.

Madam Speaker, the Vice-President is ever here. Maybe she is attending to something that is urgent, and do we understand, but not the hon. Ministers. It is clear that even where secretaries are supposed to attend a conference, it is the hon. Ministers who are flying.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kang’ombe: Na Chief Whip talipo.

Mr Mung’andu: Let us take the work to improve the welfare of our people seriously. Hon. Ministers are undermining the integrity of this House and undermining you, Madam Speaker, because you are our head of this institution. We want hon. Ministers present. Actually, in my opinion, this is the most important arm of the Government because, if today we decide to change laws here, all these other arms of the Government can be affected. This is how important this arm of the Government is. Now, we have a situation where we only have two hon. Ministers present, who are not even ready –

Laughter

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling, before I go further.

Mr Kang’ombe clapped.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Who was clapping? Was somebody clapping?

Hon. Government Members: Kang’ombe!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, let us ensure that we maintain the decorum of the House.  Whereas we are pointing fingers at others, let us also introspect and see that we comply with the same rules that we demand others comply with.

Hon. Member for Chama South, it is a pity that you came a bit late, but I had already commented on that issue. I expressed my displeasure on the nonattendance of hon. Ministers. I even referred to your point of order. So, that point has been taken. I gave a serious warning that in future, this will not be tolerated. That is why the first question was deferred.

I do not know because there has been no explanation on why hon. Ministers are not here. Since the Vice-President, who is always here, is not present, it may mean that there must be a bigger issue which we cannot speculate on. I believe they will join us sooner rather than later. So, let us proceed, but we have taken note of that. It is a serious observation.

Hon. Member for Kantanshi, you can proceed. Please, recast your question.

Mr Mumba: Madam Speaker, the question talked about ‘mechanisms’ that the ministry is applying to monitor growth in the SME subsector. Is the hon. Minister able to share with us the growth pillars that the Government has set for itself under SMEs to get us on the same page with his ministry so that we see how much SMEs are going to contribute to the wellbeing of our economy?

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kantanshi, if I got you properly, you are bringing in the aspect of the four pillars attached to the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP), which is not part and parcel of this question. I think it is being overstretched. Let us ask other questions which are supposed to be supplementary questions to the question that is already on the Floor of the House.

So, that question will not be answered. If you want to ask it, you can ask it in another form.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, in the responses, the hon. Minister indicated that industrial yards or hubs are yet to be commissioned and that medium and small scale entrepreneurs will be invited to occupy spaces in those yards.

Madam Speaker, is the intention of these yards to attract youths from various districts so that the youths from Kalabo can go and occupy the Mongu yard or there will be a replication of similar yards in all districts so that local youths in those districts are able to occupy those spaces?

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, the industrial yards were constructed in seven provinces. We have them in the Northern Province, the North-Western Province, the Copperbelt, the Eastern Province, Lusaka Province and the Western Province. There are three provinces where these industrial yards have not been constructed. However, the ministry is in the process of constructing them in the remaining three provinces.

Madam Speaker, to add more in answer to the hon. Member’s question, these industrial yards are to encourage our youth, women and the general public to do business and set up small and medium scale processing plants. That is what they were designed for and, as I said, we are encouraging the youth throughout the country with innovative ideas and small and medium scale businesses to come forward. We will look into what they want to do and what they are doing and offer them spaces in those industrial yards.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Looking at the time, the nature of questions that are being asked and the concentration from the House, I have decided to move on to the next question.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

RESTRICTION OF SOME BUSINESSES FOR SMALL AND MEDIUM ENTERPRISES TO ZAMBIANS

345. Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development:

     (a)    whether the Government has any plans to restrict some businesses for Small and Medium Enterprises

            (SMEs) to Zambians to the exclusion of foreigners;

     (b)    if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

     (c)    what type of businesses will be restricted.

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, I want to be very factual and clear. The Government of the Republic of Zambia has the interests of the Zambian people, and the business community in particular, at heart.

Madam Speaker, we have plans, but until we try and grow this sector, identify and see that our Zambian people are eager to get into some of those sectors. For example, there are some sectors which should strictly be for our people and none other.

Madam Speaker, I will give examples and i will be very clear. For businesses like block making, why is it that we cannot let our smaller Zambian businesses take part? I said that until we also build capacity in our people to get into this space, we cannot do it. I have been thinking seriously about it. The Government is serioiusly looking into making sure that some of the businesses that are being done by our friends who are coming from outside this country are reserved for the people of Zambia.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Rev. Katuta: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order on whom?

Rev. Katuta: On the hon. Minister who has just finished speaking, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, I have been in this House for a while. I do not know whether the Standing Orders have changed, but I have never seen hon. Ministers answer off the cuff. I have seen them respond according to what comes from the ministry. For example, they would say, “the hon. Member for Chienge asked the following question and our response to (a) is” and then they give the response.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister is just answering based on what he thinks are the answers. I do not know whether we take that as Government assurance and the position of the Government.

I need your serious ruling on that.

Madam Speaker: From what I was observing here, the hon. Minister was reading some notes, unless I have become a bit blind and cannot see.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, they are handwritten.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chienge, the hon. Minister answered in accordance with the Standing Orders.

Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, we are now on supplementary questions.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, yes, it is a supplementary question, but I also want to ride on the concern the hon. Member has raised.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, I have already made a ruling on that. Kindly ask your question.

Mr Kampyongo: We hope they have heeded that ruling. We could have helped. We know these things much better. We could have helped them with how they are done.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order, order!

Mr Kampyongo: Free consultancy for the sake of the nation.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order, order!

That is why I was saying, please –

Mr Kampyongo interjected.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu –

Mr Kampyongo: Hon. Minister –

Madam Speaker: Order!

I am still talking. That is why I have said we are one family. If we see that there is a failing on one side, we must be there to offer advice.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: So, let us not try to run each other down on the Floor of the House. Let us approach and offer necessary advice where we see shortcomings; after all, we are all learning.

Mr Kampyongo: Very true, Madam Speaker. We could not agree more with you. We are available. We are for the people of Zambia and we are available.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I just want to remind the hon. Minister that the businesses have already been identified. There was a Statutory Instrument (SI) which specified areas or businesses that should be preserved for Zambians and the example he has given is one of those classic ones. The Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) is under his ministry and it has this data. The only challenge is implementation.

Madam, how soon can we see him implement the SI which was already developed in terms of businesses that were identified to be reserved for indigenous citizens?

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, the ministry is in the process of revealing – looking at reviewing –

Interruptions

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, I need to be protected.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, let us concentrate. For us to be able to ask follow-up questions, we must understand what the hon. Minister is stating. So, please, let us give the hon. Minister the chance to answer the good question that has been put up by the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu.

Mr Mubanga: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The ministry, which has been mandated to look at the pride of indigenous Zambians who should benefit from Zambian wealth, is re-looking at the Act so that it can include what was left out. We know that for so many years, Zambian small and medium scale businesses have not benefited. During previous Governments, the people of Zambia were not included. Now, we are re-looking at the Act so that Zambian people, this time around, can benefit. Very soon, we will be able to announce that Zambian people must now take their place in this country.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, my question relates to the one that was posed by the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu.

Madam Speaker, I just want to be clear. The hon. Minister ran through the many processes. The position is that there is a law. It is a Statutory Instrument (SI) that outlines which businesses should be reserved for Zambians, like the ones that he mentioned. 

Madam Speaker, how soon does the Government intend to operationalise this SI? To be clear, when the hon. Minister talks about block making, there is a reserve scheme through the SI that should be reserved for Zambians. So, what is required now is, maybe, for the ministry to come up with regulations to ensure that this SI is put into operation. So, how soon can we expect that to be done?

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, I know the hon. Member and Leader of the Opposition wants to know exactly when. I will say, very soon.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mubanga: I want to add something. This is a very serious issue that we are talking about. We are talking about citizens ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mubanga: ... of Zambia and we need to be very clear. We have not emphasised the Zambian participation in the Zambian space. We have not done that during the previous Governments.

Mr Lusambo: Question!

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Madam.

Interruptions

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, yes, I need to be very clear. We have not. The creation of this ministry was to look into all these issues and make sure that it does not miss any target. It needs to be there.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, the point of order is on the hon. Minister. The Standing Orders are very clear. We need to be factual when presenting issues before this House.

Madam Speaker, is this hon. Minister in order to claim that during previous Governments, there was nothing that was done to assist small scale businessmen and the Zambian people?

Could it be that he has no clue what happened in the past? Does he know that even during President Kaunda’s time, retailing was reserved for Zambians and only wholesaling was allowed for foreigners? There are many other things that previous Governments did.

Is he in order to come here and mislead himself, his Government and the people of Zambia when he has no clue what happened in the past?

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Yesterday, I think I guided on these points of order whereby hon. Members say that the hon. Minister is not stating facts, but fail to prove the facts that they believe in themselves. So, the hon. Minister is stating the position as advised by technocrats in the ministry. If the hon. Member for Kawambwa has information which will clearly show that the hon. Minister is misleading the House, he should lay that information on the Table. Otherwise, it is the hon. Member for Kawambwa who is misleading the House.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, when you rise on a point of order, please, be ready with your evidence so that you prove that what is being stated is not factual. You will be able to help me that way.

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, I thank you so much for the opportunity to ask a follow-up question to the hon. Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development.

Madam Speaker, the ministry was created exactly for what this question seeks to probe and that is to start, support and grow these small and medium enterprises (SMEs) into multinational companies that will be able to compete internationally.

Madam Speaker, statistics point to the fact that 97 per cent of businesses in this country fall within this sector, his ministry. Since the formation of the ministry, how many local SMEs have been registered and what support are they getting from the ministry.

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member is asking how many have registered. We are, as a ministry, dealing with co-operatives that are working as SMEs as well. We have seen an increase in registration since the ministry was created. I may not state exactly how many have been registered at this point, but I should indicate that we have seen a positive increase in the number of SMEs formalising their businesses. So, this is a positive sign that our small and medium scale businesses are growing. They have been encouraged by the creation of the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development.

Madam Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, during the industrial revolution, the United Kingdom put measures to promote the growth of infant industries. Today, those infant industries have attained multinational status.

Madam Speaker, we need to revolutionise our small and medium enterprises. The hon. Minister has ably noted block making, selling of chickens and restaurants as businesses which should be a preserve of the people of Zambia.

Are there future plans to ensure that apart from block making, chicken selling and so on and so forth, there are other types of businesses where foreigners have to partner with Zambians? This is what is happening in other countries. If we have to fight poverty and create jobs, we need to create partnerships.

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, I think the hon. Member for Chama North was not paying much attention. I said that this is the time for Zambians to come up. It is time for Zambians to come up and take their positions. We will develop much more when Zambian businesses or Zambian businessmen take keen interest in business. Small and medium scale businesses must grow into large corporations.

Now, we are encouraging Zambians to get into the manufacturing and tourism sectors. So, in other words, I am saying to Zambians that it is time to come forward to the ministry. They should identify what they want to do and, as a ministry, we will help them to try and find partners. One of the policies of the New Dawn Government is to try and champion partnership.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mubanga: Zambians without liquidity can partner with those coming from outside so that they form companies and start growing them.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lusambo (Kabushi): Madam Speaker, Zambians generally are hardworking and intelligent people. On the issue to do with chicken rearing and block-making in Lusaka Province, the previous Government, under the supervision of His Excellency President Edgar Lungu –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, do not debate. Ask a supplementary question. Time is not with us. What is your supplementary question?

Mr Lusambo: Madam Speaker, I just needed to lay a foundation to my question to the hon. Minister.

The hon. Minister intends to build capacity in Zambians who want to come up with businesses with foreigners who are already in the country. How does he intend to do that? How does he intend to build capacity in Zambians who want to join the block-making and chicken-rearing businesses? The restaurants which are mushrooming in all our shopping malls are under our brothers and sisters from outside.

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government, under the Ministry of Technology and Science, emphasises skills training to build capacity in our Zambian business space. We want to make sure that these young men and women who want to join businesses first undergo some training to give them some skills.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mubanga: The hon. Member needs to understand that some time back, people were given empowerment funds to run their businesses, but because they lacked skills, their businesses could not be sustained.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mubanga: This New Dawn Government wants to make sure that people are trained and given some skills for them to run their businesses. That is what we are doing.

I thank you, Madam.

Madam Speaker: On account of time, I will allow two more questions.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, in 2006, the Citizens Economic Empowerment Act was enacted into law. I am sure there are hon. Members of Parliament present today who are aware of the law. Based on Section 21 of the Citizens Economic Empowerment Act of 2006, Statutory Instrument No.1 of 2017 was signed by President Edgar Chagwa Lungu. Statutory Instrument No. 1 of 2017 is called the Citizens Economic Empowerment Reservation Scheme. This document provides for legislation to reserve schemes for Zambians.

The young people who are watching this debate that we are having today have not had a specific answer from the hon. Minister on when this Statutory Instrument will be implemented. The answers that have been provided have not provided timelines.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister delaying to implement this Statutory Instrument because he wants to amend it or because he feels it is not adequate? What assurance is he giving the people who are out there? Is it that in December or January, the SI will be implemented? Clearly, he has not given specific timelines. The law is already in place. When are we going to have this law implemented?

Madam Speaker: Although I heard the hon. Minister say, ‘very soon,’ he may answer the question.

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, I think I said it. I need to be very frank here. When you look at the Citizens Economic Empowerment Act, you will see that the intended purpose was very good. However, we said that we needed to re-look at it. So, right now, we are trying to re-look at the Act so that it can conform to what we need to achieve as a ministry. Yes, I may not be very specific on the timelines. The hon. Member wants to hear me say next week or next month,” but I said “very soon” because there are things that we need to put in place.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, we love the hon. Minister’s presentation except that at one point, I would have loved him to tell us the definition of a small and medium enterprise according to his ministry as it was going to shed more light. However, I notice that the ministry in question right now cuts across the board. For it to perform, it needs a multi-sectoral and inclusive approach.

The ministry is dealing with small and medium enterprises, and in this bracket, he has already given an example of block making companies, poultry and shops, like the ones owned by the Rwandese. We also have people who have gone into farming as a business. Some of them are small scale farmers. They still fall under this ministry because they are small and medium enterprises. These farmers are being deprived –

Madam Speaker: Order hon. Member for Kasenengwa!

Ask a supplementary question, hon. Member. We do not have much time. You are debating.

Mr Twasa: I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Farmers and others in many other sectors like engineering, poultry farming and many others are being deprived of participation. What mechanism has the hon. Minister put in place, working with the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock, Ministry of Agriculture and the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA), to make sure that those imports that affect those businesses do not deprive them or slow down their progress or growth? When you talk about dairy farmers, they are selling milk at a very small price –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, you are debating.

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, I was just trying to be smart.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Not here, hon. Member.

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member was actually debating and I lost him on the way. However, if he got me when I started, I said that we need to preserve and protect. This is a consultative period. For example, as regards taxes which are on imports for the various sectors he mentioned, we are in the process of re-looking at them so that in the next budget, our smaller businesses could be exempted.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Since the question was asked by the hon. Member for Kanchibiya, I will give him another opportunity.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, I had wished for the hon. Minister to give us the numbers as I had asked in my previous question. This was going to make sense in understanding how many local and foreign entities there are.

Madam Speaker, to what extent is the Government shielding local entrepreneurs from being overrun by foreign entities? An example would be in the aqua culture industry. With the indulgence of the hon. Speaker, in this particular industry, Zambia imports a lot fish from China, but we still have a lot of Chinese who have gone into this sector overrunning even the large scale fish farmers in this country. What is the Government doing to protect local entrepreneurs, both existing and emerging?

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, thank you for the question. It looks like we are repeating our selves. However, first and foremost, we want Zambians to be protected and that is why we are re-looking at the Act. We want to make sure that the smaller businesses that can be done by only Zambians are done by Zambians. That is why the ministry has taken a bit of time because we probably want to give the time line. We have taken a bit of time so that we can make sure that we create exclusivity to Zambians.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

We go back to the question that was deferred.

Hon. Minister for Local Government and Rural Development, at the time that the question was called, you were not before this hon. House. So, I used my discretion to defer the question. However, there is a lot of displeasure in the House that hon. Ministers were not in the House at the time that we started the Business of the House. Hon. Members of Parliament are not happy and it is also putting me in an awkward position that I have to demand from hon. Ministers to give an explanation as to why they are not before the House when Business starts.

There was no explanation as to why hon. Ministers were not in the House, apart from just two hon. Ministers. So, we will go back to the deferred question. Maybe, when it is your time to answer, you could just offer an explanation.

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Madam Speaker, I wish to tender to the Member of Parliament for Mkushi North, Mr Chibuye, as well as to the House at large my an reserved apology for not having been in the House at the time when the question was due for answering. I seek your forgiveness on this matter. The explanation I have is that there was an internal miscommunication within my ministry that because we had Cabinet meeting, I was informed me at just about 1400 hours that I had questions on the Order Paper. So, I promise that this will not happen again and I seek everyone’s forgiveness on the matter.

Mr Mung’andu: Ema Ministers aba!

Mr Nkombo: Believing that there is leniency and forgiveness, I will now go ahead and answer the question.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much hon. Minister, the apology has been taken and I am sure the hon. Members also have accepted the apology. Please, let us not make it a habit. You may proceed.

CONSTRUCTION OF TOWNSHIP ROADS IN MKUSHI DISTRICT

343. Mr C. Chibuye (Mkushi North) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

      (a)     when the construction of township roads in Mkushi District will be completed; and

      (b)    what the cause of the delay in completing the project is.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, the construction of township roads in Mkushi will be completed in 2022, depending on the availability of funds. The cause of the delay has been erratic funding.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chibuye: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the answer and we have forgiven him for coming late.

Madam Speaker, since the hon. Minister has indicated that the project will finish in 2022, is there any specific time frame that he can indicate to the people of Mkushi so that they know?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, had it been entirely up to me, I would have been very desirous to give him a time frame within which this project would be completed. There is a historic background to many of the non-completed projects in our country beginning with the year 2013 when a decision was made by the former Government that due to over procurement and a lack of available funds, it was going to discontinue all projects that were below 80 per cent. That was in recognition of the fact that there was no fiscal space to complete all the projects that it had embarked on.

Madam Speaker, nothing has changed this far in terms of how healthy our Budget is. We are still completely constrained. We owe suppliers in our ministry for the roads that were completed and for others that were not, but have presented what are called Interim Payment Certificates (IPCs), and we have not even paid them. So, the situation, unfortunately, remains just the same. However, should there be any leverage, as I said in my maiden answer, our intention is to complete this work this year, 2022.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development has indicated in his response that until funds are available, these works will remain unattended to. Is it the intention of his Government to build local capacity to avoid instances where we have to contract works when at a local level authorities can be given the right capacity to undertake them? For example, some road works; and when does he intend to roll out these capacity building programmes to enable councils to attend to road works?

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kamfinsa, you are expanding the question. I think that is too large. The question under consideration is in relation to a road in Mkushi District. We can restrict it to Mkushi. Let us not open a general debate.

Mr Kang’ombe: May I revise the question, therefore, Madam Speaker?

Madam Speaker: Please, do.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, since the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development indicated that funds are not yet available, are there intentions by the Government to raise the capacity of the Mkushi District Council to enable it to undertake these works locally as it mobilises resources to complete the ongoing works?

Madam Speaker: That is better.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, yes, any normal Government would want to develop capacity in local authorities. For Mkushi District Council, that is not on our plan. The roads we are talking about are of bituminous standard. We do not have any plan on paper to capacitate the Mkushi District Council to be able to build bituminous standard roads. However, as a ministry, we are going to embark on a ten year district roads plan, hopefully in the year 2023 in order to attend to unfinished projects that were started by our hon. Colleagues in the past.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his response. Now, he has stated that these jobs can only be attended to when resources are available. I want to find out from the hon. Minister if it is permissible for my brother, the hon. Member for Mkushi North, to use part of the Constituency Development Funds (CDF) to work on these roads in Mkushi, which I understand from the hon. Minister’s explanation are not bituminous standard.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) provisions only cater for emergencies in terms of disaster management for crossing points and not to build roads. So, the answer is no.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chala (Chipili): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that if money will be available, he will work on those roads this year, 2022. Is the project we are talking about in the Budget for 2022?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, the road in Mkushi is one of the roads whose construction was not discontinued. My ministry does receive funding from central Treasury for payments for functions within it. However, there are competing needs, including what I said earlier on, the indebtedness that we inherited from old friends of ours in the Patriotic Front (PF). We owe contractors in excess of K12.9 billion in just feeder roads against a budget of K500 million for this year. So, we are looking at priorities and, for now, it is my wish, as an hon. Minister, to service all the contracts that have been left unattended to as a result of financial constraints, but the answer still remains the same: There is a K500 million budget, we receive about K41 million every month and, within that K41 million, I said it before and I will say it again; if we have to service the debt portfolio that we inherited, it will take us forty years.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I think we have adequately attended to that question. Let us make progress.

MOTOR VEHICLES FOR POLICE IN PEMBA DISTRICT

346. Mr Hamwaata (Pemba) asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security:

       (a)   whether the Government has any plans to procure motor vehicles for the police in Pemba District to

              enhance their operations; and

       (b)  if so, when the plans will be implemented.

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo) (on behalf of the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu)): Madam Speaker, the Government, indeed, has plans to procure motors vehicles for the police in Pemba District to enhance their operations.

Madam Speaker, what is currently in the plan is a Nissan pick-up truck which was allocated to Pemba District, but was later converted by the local command and now is being used by the Special Weapons and Tactics Unit (SWAT). Currently, Pemba District Police is sharing resources with Choma District Police.

Madam Speaker, the plans to procure motor vehicles will be implemented when funds are available.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Pemba, do you have any supplementary questions?

Mr Hamwaata: Yes, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I would like to find out whether there is any alternative transport that can be used by officers in Pemba while they wait for a permanent solution?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, let me take advantage of this question and use it as an opportunity to explain that in recognising, as a Government and as a people, that the Zambia Police requires to be capacitated in terms of mobility, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security presented, on behalf of the Zambia Police, to Cabinet, a request that where the need is dire and everybody understands that the need is dire, a community that requires a motor vehicle for the police may apply to the Constituency Development Fund Committee (CDFC) and, where all the stakeholders deem it fit, that vehicle can be bought for that constituency to support crime prevention and crime response at constituency level. This is in regard to a constitutional provision that the Zambia Police is also going to decentralise and go into community policing.

This, therefore, is how the ministry has intervened and I want to take this opportunity to appeal to hon. Members of Parliament, who are an integral part of the Constituency Development Fund Committee, to visit this matter with their teams in their constituencies. If they see that the need to capacitate the police as a low hanging fruit, then the quickest way of obtaining a motor vehicle for them is at constituency level.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lubosha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security has recovered many vehicles from criminals. It has also recovered assets obtained through proceeds of crime. These assets have gone through the Ministry of Justice and have been forfeited to the Government by courts. Does the ministry have any intention to consider allocating to the people of Pemba some of these vehicles that are currently parked at its premises as they are currently in dire need of vehicles for the police?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, the forfeitures that the hon. Member is speaking about are a product of processes of the law. The police have specialised types of vehicles that are robust for prevention of crime and reaction to crime. I cannot confirm here that it is the intention of the Government to draw any vehicle that may have been forfeited by suspects of having proceeds of crime to give to Pemba Police. That is not one of the options that we have at this moment.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: For the hon. Members who are laughing, I do not know if they will be able to ask supplementary questions. I can see the hon. Member for Kasenengwa is enjoying his laughter. What are you laughing about?

Interjections

Madam Speaker: Can we make progress, please, and concentrate. The last question will be from the hon. Member for Solwezi East.

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, if the hon. Minister has noticed, there are so many good vehicles in his ministry in different departments around the country like 4 X 4s. For some of them, you will find that it is just a spring or a starter motor which is not working. Does the hon. Minister intend to have such vehicles repaired so that the people of Pemba can benefit in terms of police mobility.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I wish I had that information of just a starter motor being the problem with some of the vehicles that are parked. Sometimes, to assume, just by the impression you get of a car that is parked, that it has just a problem of a starter motor can be misleading. However, I wish to ask for the indulgence of the hon. Member of Parliament to maybe allow the ministry to do an audit of these vehicles that are dysfunctional to determine the extent of the repair work that is required in order for them to be motorable.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

MEASURES TO ENHANCE RURAL DEVELOPMENT

347. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development what measures the Government is taking to enhance rural development.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, to enhance rural development, the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development is working to promote human and social development through the decentralisation planning and provision of various infrastructures in rural areas. To this effect, a total amount of K130 million has been allocated in the 2022 Budget to facilitate the implementation of programmes and projects under rural development.

My ministry intends to undertake the following:

     (a)  formulate a rural development policy;

     (b)  facilitate the preparation of integrated development plans for rural districts;

     (c)  facilitate the preparation of participatory land use plans and local area plans for rural settlement;

     (d)  conduct sensitisation programmes for traditional leadership on participatory rural development;

     (e)  implement planning agreements in accordance with the urban and regional development plans;

     (f)  support rural youth cooperatives; and

    (g)   facilitate infrastructure development in collaboration with relevant sectors to develop projects such as rural

           crossing points, small scale irrigation dams, sanitation facilities and mini solar grids.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, how much time does the ministry have to come up with these policies which will enhance rural development?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I wish I could lock myself to your timeframe, but going by the rules of this House, I am very slow to give an exact timeframe, lest I miss it. However, I would like to say that a policy is normally a living document which continues to get revised from time to time. This far, over and above the policy, I am sure the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo Central agrees with me that one of the policy changes that have seen the expansion of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) from K1.6 million to K25.7 million is in an effort to bring an equilibrium to the development process and to reduce the dichotomy of urban/rural development.

One of things that we have deliberately done, as the Government, is to embark on skills training for artisanship in rural areas to build carpenters, blacksmiths, bricklayers and electricians in order to create a platform for job creation in rural areas and avoid what used to happen before where contractors always came from the urban to the rural setup to provide services.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, in the hon. Minister’s answers, he stated that one of set targets is to ensure that rural development gets the best infrastructure. I believe, amongst those, are roads.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister thinking of bringing back the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) which used to specifically look at rural roads and was moved to the Ministry of Defence? I believe it is not doing anything at the moment. Is he thinking of bringing back that unit so that it can help with the attainment of the set targets?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, the Rural Roads Unit (RRU), believing that the Defence Forces are also a partner in the development agenda, shall remain with the Ministry of Defence.

Madam Speaker, we actually intend to strengthen our linkages with the Zambia National Service (ZNS), the Zambia Amy and all the Defence Forces in attending to the issue that the hon. Member is speaking about.

Madam Speaker, one of the things that we are grappling with in the ministry is the actual cost of servicing a road. We believe that the ZNS, with the equipment and capacity that it has, would be very instrumental in giving us a cost reflective figure of building a kilometre of a gravel road. So, our intention is to increase and strengthen our collaboration with the Ministry of Defence in order to serve our people.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, from the point of view of Kalabo, I see a challenge with the labour force of the council which the Government has to use in order to achieve the goal of rural development. I say so looking at the inertia, the lack of will and the inefficiency in the labour force. What measures has the Government put in place to make sure that staff at the council, which the Government is hoping to use to improve rural development, is in place?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I want to assure the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo that the plight he is lamenting about now is not only synonymous to Kalabo District. There has been general inertia, indolence and noncommittal to service by our local authorities. The Local Government Service Commission (LSC), upon its constitution, embarked on an appraisal of all staff under its ambit. The hon. Member of Parliament saw in the last one month or so, that there were several changes at executive level i.e. Town Clerks and Council Secretaries; to shift them around, retire some and try to build capacity in those that are up-coming in order to address the same matter that concerns him.

Madam, unfortunately, the culture of inertia is something that we have to work with collectively. It does not matter whether one sits on your right or left. Sitting at my vantage point of being the fortunate one to be the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, I have received complaints from the Opposition Patriotic Front (PF) and the Ruling United Party for National Development (UPND) and the Independents, of course, about the attitudes of our staff in local authorities.

My appeal is that we work together in order to change the culture of the staff that is currently working in local authorities. We must set targets for them to fulfil.

Madam Speaker, one of the biggest problems that we have encountered as the supervisor of local authorities has been in the area of procurement. It appears that there is some malignancy in how they were doing their procurement, disregarding the issues of quality, price and timely delivery. As the Government, we agreed that we would anchor on those three principles; that the price must be reflective of the cost of goods and services; the quality must be non-compromised; and the delivery time must be respected.

Madam Speaker, I am quite hopeful that if we work together and put our heads together, we can nip this inertia attitude in the bud before it grows any further.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I am sure we have exhausted that question. Let us make some progress.

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MOTIONS

REPORT OF THE PARLIAMENTARY REFORMS AND MODERNISATION COMMITTEE

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, before we move to the next item, let me provide guidance. Article 89(2) of the Constitution of Zambia states as follows:

“(2) The National Assembly or a parliamentary committee shall not exclude the public or media from its sittings, unless there are justifiable reasons for the exclusion and the Speaker informs the public or media of the reasons”.

Hon. Members, the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee is classified under the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders 202 as a House Keeping Committee. In this regard, Standing Order 191 (1) states as follows:

“There is established the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee as a House Keeping Committee, comprising the Second Deputy Speaker, the Minister of Finance and National Planning, the Minister of Justice, the Minister of Local Government Rural Development and six other members appointed by the Standing Orders Committee.”

Hon. Members, the debate on the report of the Committee is held in camera. The reason for this is that the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee deals with in-house matters hinging on the powers, privileges, procedures and practice, organisation and facilities of the Assembly.

It is in view of the foregoing that I direct all members of the public and the media to leave the House.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: I further direct that the broadcasting of proceedings on Parliamentary Radio, Television and other media be suspended during the debate on the report of the Committee.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

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The House adjourned at 1837 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 1st July, 2022.

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