Wednesday, 27^th April, 2016

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER, in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

KABULAMEMA SECONDARY SCHOOL IN KABOMPO WEST

412. Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West) asked the Minister of General Education:

(a)        whether the Government was aware that Kabulamema Secondary School in Kabompo West Parliamentary Constituency shared the same premises with Kabulamema Primary School;

(b)        if so, whether the Government had any plans to separate the two institutions; and

(c)        whether a new site had been identified for the purpose.

The Deputy Minister of General Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, the Government is aware that Kabulamema Secondary School and Kabulamema Primary School in Kabompo West Parliamentary Constituency share classroom facilities.

Mr Speaker, the priority of the District Education Board Secretary’s (DEBS) Office in Kabompo West Parliamentary Constituency was the upgrading of Pokola and Kanaji-Chilanda primary schools to day secondary schools. The upgrading has since been completed.

Mr Speaker, the Government is aware that the ideal situation is to detach Kabulamema Secondary School from Kabulamema Primary School, funds permitting.

Sir, a new site, which is about 700 m away from the school, has already been identified for this purpose and the 1 x 3 and 1 x 4 classroom blocks under construction are at slab level. We wish to thank the hon. Member of Parliament who supported this project up to slab level using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether there is a remote possibility of this Government considering assisting the community which has already put up the foundation for the 1 x 4 and 1 x 3 classroom blocks by the end of the life of this Parliament and/or Government?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, I do not want to make any commitment in that regard. However, like I said earlier, going forward, the next project of priority in Kabompo Parliamentary Constituency will be the upgrading of the school. At the moment, the Government’s commitment is to upgrade Pokola and Kanaji-Chilanda primary schools, which are almost completed. Going forward, we shall separate the schools in question.

Sir, I have been to the site of the project and the community has contributed materials. All that left to do is support the project with additional funding.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, upgrading primary schools into secondary schools and doing away with basic schools was a good plan. What has gone wrong in implementing this plan? For instance, in Kabulamema, like most parts of the country, the Government has not been able to implement its plan of upgrading primary schools into secondary schools in the five years of its existence. When is the plan of relocating Kabulamema Secondary School going to be actualised? The situation is the same in every district, resulting in pupils being denied the chance to access secondary school education. When will the Government implement the plan, considering that this is the end of its five-year term?

Mr Mwila: We are coming back.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, Hon. Muchima is aware that the upgrading of 220 primary schools into basic schools was started by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government. For his information, this has been a successful programme as far as the Ministry of General Education is concerned. For most of the 220 primary schools, including Pokola and Kanaji-Chilanda, the upgrading has been completed. This has increased access to secondary education. So, this is a successful programme.

Mr Speaker, Kabulamema was not one of the 220 schools, but Pokola and Kanaji-Chilanda, which have already been upgraded. So, this is a success story and I am sure that the situation is the same in Ikeleng’i where Hon. Muchima comes from.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister …

Mr Speaker: Order, both on my left and my right!

Mr Mutelo: … just thanked the community in Kabulamema for contributing materials which he witnessed. When is he going to support the contribution of the community so that the materials do not go to waste?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, since the upgrading of Pokola and Kanani-Chilanda primary schools has been completed, obviously, we shall engage the office of the DEBS in Kabompo West to plan the project.  

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how many of the 220 schools have been upgraded in the North-Western Province.

The Minister of General Education (Dr Phiri): Mr Speaker, the question was specific to Kabulamema Secondary School in Kabompo West Parliamentary Constituency. If the hon. Member of Parliament for Sikongo wants additional information, he can kindly visit my office or submit a question of an urgent nature and we shall give him the specifics.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has talked about two schools whose rehabilitation, according to him, has been completed. However, the facts on the ground are that the upgrading of Kanani-Chilanda primary school has not been completed. When will it be completed so that pupils can start using the classrooms?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, there is always a temptation to paint a white picture black. There is no controversy in this matter. The hon. Member of Parliament for Kabompo West knows that ...

Mr Speaker: Order!

It is the hon. Member for Kalabo Central.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I am addressing the hon. Member who asked the principal question. The hon. Member of Parliament for Kabompo West Parliamentary Constituency is aware that the district presented two names of schools for upgrading. These are, Kanaji Chilanda and Pokola primary schools whose works the hon. Deputy Minister has confirmed have been completed. Phase 1 of the construction of the schools has been completed and they are now in use. We wish to salute the community of Kabompo, under the leadership of the hon. Member of Parliament, for using their initiative. This has enabled us to construct the other school, which was not part of the original programme, up to slab level. To encourage parents and avail more school places to children in this area, we shall endeavour to complete the school. In the meantime, we cannot give a specific time frame within which this will be done due to obvious monetary constraints. However, I our resolve is very clear.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sianga (Sesheke Central): Mr Speaker, does the hon. Minister not think that the quality of education at Kabulamema Secondary School has been compromised because it has been combined with a primary school?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, even the community understands that when you put two institutions in one place, there is always a compromise in the quality of education. Kabulamema is a primary school that is housing a secondary school section. That is not the ideal situation. However, please, understand that the Government is more than committed to increasing school space. In fact, I wish to inform the nation that with this pilot project of upgrading 220 basic schools into day secondary schools, we have created more than 5,000 places for children who ordinarily would not have found places in Grades 8 and 10. So, I resolve is to endeavour to meet Hon. Lufuma half way or fully to build the other school. However, we have difficulties attaching a time frame to this because of the budgetary limitation which may not allow us to complete the project as anticipated.

I thank you, Sir.

BRIDGE ACROSS CHONGWE RIVER CONNECTING RUFUNSA AND MULALILA

413. Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa) asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

1. whether the Government was aware that the bridge across Chongwe River, connecting Mwachilele in Rufunsa District and Mulalila in Chongwe District was on the verge of collapse;

1. if so, when a new bridge would be constructed to avert a catastrophe; and

1. if there were no immediate plans for a new bridge, why.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Dr Mwali): Mr Speaker, the bridge across Chongwe River, connecting Mwachilele and Mulalila is not on the verge of collapse. This is a bridge which was constructed using Armco pipes. So, there is normally debris trapped by the inlet, which only requires cleaning, due to the small size of the Armco pipes. The Road Development Agency (RDA) is in the process of engaging a small-scale contractor to do the cleaning, routine maintenance and vegetation control.

Mr Speaker, there are no immediate plans to erect a new bridge at this point other than the repair of the embankment once the contractor for this stretch of the road has been engaged.

Mr Speaker, the structures at the site can drain the road sufficiently, and do not require immediate replacement.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, I do not know whether we are actually talking about the same bridge. As far as I am concerned, the bridge is in a bad shape. Nonetheless, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister when the Government will repair the embankment that he has referred to. I think that repairing the embankment will help to reinforce the bridge.

Mr Speaker: Order!

There is no question there.

The hon. Member for Ikeleng’i may ask his question.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that the Road Development Agency (RDA) will hire a small-scale contractor to carry out the maintenance works on the bridge. When is the RDA going to do that?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the tender for the routine maintenance of the bridge closed on 15^th April this year. We expect the contractor to be on site by September this year.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, I do not support the idea of contracting small-scale or large-scale contractors to do certain works because it is expensive to engage them. I wish to commend the Government for moving the function of rehabilitating rural roads from the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) to the Zambia National Service (ZNS). The ZNS is doing well with the repair of rural roads. Why does the Government not engage soldiers to work on small bridges which can be less expensive than using contractors? 

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the ZNS has taken over all the works that were done by the RRU and the Road Development Agency (RDA) has continued to do the works it was mandated to do.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, from what I have heard, the issue here is the size of the pipes which were used to construct the bridge and which are very small. As a permanent solution, why not get larger pipes of about diameter 2 m so that the water can easily pass through? Why does the Government want to maintain the small pipes? Why not use larger pipes?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, according to the information that we have, the problem is not with the bridge or the size of the pipes, but the lack of routine maintenance. The problem is that we did not clean the pipes. 

I thank you, Sir.

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MOTIONS

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON HEALTH, COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT AND SOCIAL SERVICES

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services for the Fifth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on 11^th April, 2016.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Musonda (Kapiri Mposhi): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, in performing its duties, your Committee was guided by its terms of reference as set out in the National Assembly Standing Orders. During the period under review, your Committee considered two topical issues, namely:

1. the Implementation and Co-ordination of Zambia’s Nutrition Policy and Interventions; and

1. the Sustainability of Zambia’s National Virus Infection and Acquired Immuno Deficiency Syndrome (HIV/AIDS) Response.

Mr Speaker, I am certain that the hon. Members have taken time to read your Committee’s report. Therefore, I will only endevour to bring out the highlights of the report, starting with your Committee’s study on the Implementation and Co-ordination of Zambia’s Nutrition Policy and Interventions.

Mr Speaker, the importance of good nutrition, especially for child development and its positive impact on socio-economic development, cannot be overemphasised. Proper nourishing during a child’s first years of life can have a profound effect on his/her health status, overall brain development and his/her ability to learn, to communicate, to think analytically and, ultimately,  to becoming a productive member of society. Therefore, providing oversight over the nutrition sector is cardinal in ensuring that the policies and programmes that have been put in place yield good outcomes and are in tandem with developments in nutrition. It is for this reason that your Committee is concerned that the main policies governing the nutrition sector have not been reviewed in the past. The National Food and Nutrition Commission Act No. 41 of 1967 and the National Food and Nutrition Policy of 2006 have not been reviewed for forty years and ten years, respectively. The Act was last amended in 1975. This raises concern about how ….

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on the right!

Mr Mufalali: … aligned the policy framework is with emerging issues in the nutrition sector.

Sir, your Committee is aware that the Cabinet approved the revision of the National Food and Nutrition Commission Act in 2015. Your Committee, therefore, urges the Government to expedite the review process and present the Bill in Parliament as soon as possible. The Government should further review the National Food and Nutrition Policy to bring it line with current developments in the nutrition sector. The World Health Organisation (WHO) recommends that health-related legislation and policy be reviewed every ten and five years, respectively.

Mr Speaker, your Committee recalls that it has been consistently urging the Government to fund the health sector adequately, with the hope that this will spill over to the subsectors in the health sector such as the nutrition sector. Your Committee, however, observes that the financial resources allocated to the nutrition sector are not adequate enough to enable the effective implementation and full coverage of nutrition intervention and programmes across all sectors. This is evidenced by the fact that some programmes such as the 1000 Most Critical Days are only being implemented in fourteen selected districts in the whole country. Further, only about K13 million has been allocated to all nutrition-related activities in the 2016 National Budget and the operational grant of K8,200,000 to the National Food and Nutrition Commission has almost remained the same since 2014. This is a source of concern, considering the potential consequences of malnutrition to socio-economic development, which include poor health, reduced educational attainment and loss of human capital and productivity. In this regard, your Committee recommends that the Government adequately funds the nutrition sector and honour the pledges it made at the Nutrition for Growth Summit in London in 2013, one of which is to increase the budget for nutrition by 20 per cent per year over a period of ten years.

Mr Speaker, addressing nutrition requirement requires technical competencies across sectors. It has been estimated that Zambia requires over 1,000 nutritionists to effectively address the nutrition challenges it is faced with. Sadly, the nutrition sector has inadequate skilled human resource to guide policy and programme implementation. Your Committee realises that investment in human resource development for the nutrition sector is vital in combating malnutrition. Therefore, it calls on the Government to invest in human resource development. This will ensure that challenges of implementation in the nutrition sector are addressed.

Sir, the multi-sectoral nature of the causes of malnutrition justifies the involvement of other sectors, other than the Ministry of Health, in carrying out nutrition activities. These include, among others, the Ministries of Agriculture and General Education, which are responsible for the improvement of food and nutrition and influencing nutrition behaviour through the provision of nutrition education. Your Committee is, however, concerned that accountability for policy measures and implementation of programmes seems to be a challenge. This could be attributed to the absence of a comprehensive and clear accountability framework and the failure by the Ministry of Health to ensure that the other sectors implement the Nutrition Policy measures and activities. In this regard, your Committee urges the Government to develop a comprehensive and clear accountability framework to ensure that all the sectors implement their policy measures and activities on nutrition.

Mr Speaker, despite the National Food and Nutrition Commission being a statutory body mandated to promote food and nutrition activities, and advise the Government therein, it appears to have limited powers to effectively execute its mandate across the various Government ministries. This could be partly due to its being domiciled at the Ministry of Health and other line ministries’ preference to interact directly with the ministry rather than the agency under it.

Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Government strengthens nutrition governance by ensuring that the National Food and Nutrition Commission has an appropriate mandate, structure and institutional home to effectively execute its co-ordination mandate. It further recommends that the Government considers placing the National Food and Nutrition Commission in a neutral institution such as the Office of the Vice-President which is above the line ministries.

Mr Speaker I now turn to your Committee’s study on the Sustainability of Zambia’s Human Immunodeficiency Virus Infection and Acquired Immuno Deficiency Syndrome (HIV?AIDS) Response.

Sir, the fact that the National HIV/AIDS Response heavily depends on external financing should be a matter of grave concern to us as a nation. The available data from the National AIDS Spending Assessment 2010-2012, indicates that 92 per cent of the total HIV/AIDS funds are from external sources. Eighty-six per cent of the expenditure on HIV/AIDS is controlled by external funders or agents. This raises concern on its sustainability in an event that the donors re-align their priorities and strategies or withdraw their contribution. In such an event, the nation risks reversing the achievements that have been made such as the progress in the prevention of mother-to-child transmission of HIV.

Therefore, your Committee recommends that the Government seriously considers owning the National HIV/AIDS Response by ensuring that it begins to fund the National HIV/AIDS Response more from locally-mobilised resources.

Mr Speaker, your Committee bemoans the Government’s delay in establishing the National Social Health Insurance Scheme. Your Committee is aware of the Government’s plans to establish the scheme since 2014 and has followed up the issue through the action-taken report. The hon. Minister of Finance confirmed the Government’s plan to establish the scheme in his Budget Speech for 2016. It is your Committee’s considered view that the scheme can be one of the alternative sources of financing for HIV/AIDS programmes.

Sir, in this regard, your Committee urges the Government to expedite the establishment of the National Social Health Insurance Scheme. The stakeholders who appeared before your Committee suggested several alternative sources of financing for the National HIV/AIDS Response. One suggestion that caught the attention of your Committee is the establishment of the HIV/AIDS Fund as provided for under the National HIV/AIDS/STI/TB Council Act No. 10 of 2002. However, your Committee notes that Zambia has not yet established the HIV/AIDS Fund despite this being provided for under the law. In light of this, your Committee recommends that the Ministry of Health considers starting the process of establishing the HIV/AIDS Fund as provided for under the National HIV/STI/TB Council Act No. 10 of 2002.

Mr Speaker, your Committee observes that the National HIV/AIDS/STI/TB Council lacks sufficient financial resources to effectively co-ordinate the National HIV/AIDS Response. The institution has been allocated an operational grant of about K7.2 million in the 2016 National Budget. However, your Committee has been reliably informed that the institution has a shortfall of about K13 million to enable it to undertake the co-ordination activities effectively.

Sir, your Committee recommends that the Government increases funding to the National HIV/AIDS/STI/TB Council. This will enable it to own the structures at sub-national level that have largely been supported by donors and effectively co-ordinate the activities of the National HIV/AIDS Response.

Mr Speaker, your Committee notes, with great concern, that the National HIV/AIDS/STI/TB Council, like the National Food and Nutrition Commission, appears to have challenges in executing its mandate of co-ordinating the activities of the HIV/AIDS Response. This could be attributed to the seemingly inadequate power to supervise and monitor all stakeholders in the sector for better co-ordination of the response. Some stakeholders are of the view that this has contributed to the fragmentation in the mainstreaming of HIV programmes, as the Government ministries work in isolation and do not engage the National HIV/AIDS/STI/TB Council. Therefore, your Committee recommends that the Government strengthens the oversight powers and authority of the National Food and Nutrition Commission to enable it to effectively co-ordinate the activities of the National HIV/AIDS Response.

Sir, before I conclude, I wish to strongly urge the Executive to heed the call for the country to own the National HIV/AIDS Response and strengthen its sustainability. Your Committee considers this to be essential for the sustenance of the gains so far made in the fight against HIV/AIDS. It is also your Committee’s sincere hope that the Executive will implement its recommendations on issues of nutrition in order to accelerate progress in improving the nutrition status of the country.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, your Committee wishes to express its indebtedness to all the witnesses who appeared before it for their co-operation in providing the necessary memoranda and briefs. Your Committee is also grateful to your office for the valuable guidance you provided during the year. Allow me to also thank the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the advice and services rendered during the year.

Sir, I wish to register my appreciation to all the members of your Committee for their co-operation and dedication to the work of your Committee.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Musonda: Now, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to second the Motion, urging the House to adopt the Report of the Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services. I also wish to thank the mover of the Motion for ably highlighting the salient issues in your Committee’s Report. I will, therefore, only point out a few issues as I second the Motion.

Sir, as the mover of the Motion has already stated, your Committee considered two topical issues. I will, therefore, begin by highlighting some issues pertaining to your Committee’s study on the implementation and co-ordination of the Zambia’s Food and Nutrition Policy and interventions. Thereafter, I will talk about a few issues related to your Committee’s study on the sustainability of Zambia’s National Human Immunodeficiency Virus Infection and Acquired Immuno Deficiency Syndrome (HIV/AIDS) Response.

Mr Speaker, the stakeholders agree that the issue of nutrition is multi-sectoral in nature and, therefore, requires a co-ordination mechanism with structures at all levels. However, your Committee learnt that the National Food and Nutrition Commission (NFNC), which is mandated to co-ordinate efforts and provide leadership on matters of food and nutrition, does not have structures at lower levels, such as the district, to co-ordinate nutrition programmes other than at national level. The NFNC is present only in the fourteen districts that are implementing the 1,000 Most Critical Days Programme. This makes it difficult to undertake effective co-ordination of nutrition activities. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Government, through the Ministry of Health, establishes and funds the co-ordination structure at all levels in order to improve the implementation of nutrition programmes and interventions.

Sir, while there is the issue of the recognition of nutrition as multi-sectoral in nature, your Committee is concerned that the sector ministries do not seem to prioritise nutrition. This could be because nutrition is often mistakenly perceived as an output rather than an input in the development process. The ministries place nutrition positions at lower levels of their establishments, thereby leaving nutrition issues without representation at planning and policy levels. To improve the situation, your Committee recommends that the Government considers authorising sector ministries to upgrade nutrition positions in their establishments to directorate level possibly.

Mr Speaker, your Committee was informed that the NFNC has been operating with outdated systems and management structures that may not support the change in the institution’s role from implementer to that of coordinator. This is disheartening, as the NFNC is at the helm of ensuring that the nutrition of the country improves. 

Mr Speaker, your Committee wonders how the NFNC can execute its mandate effectively with outdated systems and management structures. Therefore, it urges the Government to consider restructuring and modernising the NFNC so as to align its structures with its coordinating role.

Sir, let me now talk about a few issues arising from your Committee’s study on the sustainability of Zambia’s National HIV/AIDS Response. This august House is aware that same sex marriages and sex work are illegal in Zambia. However, their potential negative impact on the fight against HIV/AIDS, especially among the affected groups of the population, cannot be ignored. These groups are isolated and may have limited access to HIV services. Consequently, they have the potential to act as incubators of HIV and reverse some of the gains made so far in response to the scurge.

Mr Speaker, in this regard, your Committee recommends that HIV/AIDS be fought wherever it is recorded, be it in prisons, among sex workers and other key populations. Further, the Government should consider availing HIV sensitisation services to sex workers and prisoners in order not to leave anyone behind in the response.

Before I conclude, let me state that there is evidence pointing to the fact that there are some programmes that have a direct impact on reducing new HIV/AIDS infections. These include Prevention of Mother-to-Child Transmission of HIV (PMTCT), voluntary medical male circumcision and early treatment of HIV, among others. A number of stakeholders who interacted with your Committee on this topic observed specifically, that Zambia had made significant progress in the PMTCT. The PMTCT Programme national coverage is estimated to be above 70 per cent and has led to a significant reduction in the number of HIV infections among children.

Mr Speaker, your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Government directs its focus and allocates more resources towards programmes that have been proved to have a direct impact on reducing new HIV infections.

Sir, in conclusion, I wish to thank you, Mr Speaker, on behalf of the members of your Committee, for giving us an opportunity to serve on your Committee. I further wish to thank the members of your Committee for giving me an opportunity to second this very important Motion.

Mr Speaker, I beg to second.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, I would like to commend the mover and seconder of the Motion for giving us an insight into issues that are pertinent to our livelihoods.

Mr Speaker, food, like water, is life. Scientifically, food and water are what separates living things from non-living things. This means that they distinguish the animal and plant kingdoms from matters such as stones. 

Mr Speaker, the report has brought to the fore the fact that as representatives of the people, we should be concerned about the issue of nutrition because we see how our people struggle to access food. In our daily lives, we are confronted by issues of malnutrition and stunted growth, among others.

Sir, to begin with, I would like to commend the School Feeding Programme which is running in rural schools. I think that the programme should continue. The food supplements that are given to the children in rural schools help to boost their health.

Mr Speaker, I would like to propose that nutrition in rural health centres be enhanced. I come from a rural constituency and some of the health centres there have admission facilities. The only problem is that the patients are not given enough food during their stay in hospital. For example, in my constituency, there is a rural health centre at a place called Mushitwambumu. When I went there one day, one elderly woman said, “Can you imagine, hon. Member of Parliament, I have had no food from the time I was admitted to this health centre. I have to rely on my relatives to bring me food. When I was discharged, the health personnel told me to wash my bed linen when I was frail. Where would I have got the strength to wash the bed linen?”

Mr Speaker, this summarises the situation in the rural areas. Food is very important. As hon. Members of Parliament, we should take this issue seriously. I, therefore, urge the Government to ensure that there is proper budgetary allocation to the health sector. This will enhance the nutrition in rural health centres.

Sir, in line with the mover’s sentiments, I would like to propose that the Government considers posting nutritionists to rural health centres who will help with the issues of nutrition of patients, considering that we are faced with the challenge of Human Immunodeficiency Virus Infection and Acquired Immuno Deficiency Syndrome (HIV/AIDS) and Tuberculosis (TB).

Mr Speaker, I recall somebody from my constituency calling to inform me that he had just been discharged from hospital where he was diagnosed with TB. He further said that when he was admitted to the hospital, his ox-cart making business was sold by some greedy relatives. According to him, ox-cart-making was the only means of earning a livelihood but, since he was discharged from hospital, he had nobody to look after him and so he had no food. This is very sad.

Sir, it is important for the ministries of Community Development and Social Welfare, and Health to look at this issue seriously so as to find ways and means of boosting the nutritional capability of the people, especially those in rural areas.

Mr Speaker, the current economic challenges have exacerbated the problem under discussion because even healthy people find it difficult to access food. Suffice it to say that in some parts of the rural areas like where I come from, a 25 kg bag of roller meal costs between K120.00 and K160.00. I am talking about the rural people who do not have jobs or any means of generating income. This is another challenge.

Sir, as if that were not enough, lately, the protein element in our food has also been a challenge because relish like fish, which was readily available in most of our water bodies, has been depleted because of bad fishing methods. In addition, commodities are very expensive and this has not spared those living in urban areas.

Sir, when I went to the supermarket the other day, I met one of my colleagues. We were both looking for relish. When we enquired about the price of sausages, we were told that it was about K60.00 per kg. We both wondered how we were going to cope with the ever rising prices of foodstuffs. It is, therefore, important for all of us to have a backyard garden where we can grow vegetables wherever we live, including those of us who live in flats, so that we do not have to buy vegetables. However, this also comes with its own challenges in view of the erratic water supply in some residential areas. Therefore, we seem to be caught in a web. It is for this reason that the Government should seriously look at the nutrition status of the country.

 For instance, Mr Speaker, if you looked at the population in this country, how many tall people are there apart from the mover of the Motion? It has something to do with our ...

 Mr Mwale: Question!

Laughter

Ms Imenda: Sir, it is something to do with our nutritional status.

Mr Speaker, when I was growing up, there were tall people from all over Zambia but, nowadays, when I walk along Cairo Road, all I see are people of average height.

Laughter

Ms Imenda: Sir, I would like to propose that there be a national dialogue to discuss the issue of food and nutrition in our country.

Mr Speaker, the other issue I would like to talk about in regard to nutrition is that of a non-governmental organisation (NGO) called Programme of Action against Malnutrition (PAM), which works with the Government to promote the nutritional status of citizens, especially the most vulnerable. The Government allocated a component of the distribution of food security packs to PAM. It was doing very well until the Government decided to place it under the Ministry of Community Development and Social Welfare. Ever since the ministry took over the running of PAM, we do not hear much about its progress or benefits.

Sir, as I conclude, I would like to recommend that the food security pack and any other issues related to nutrition revert to PAM and that the Government works hand-in-hand with PAM.

Mr Speaker, with those few remarks, I would like to support the adoption of your Committee’s report.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, umukashi wandi nalanda bwino sana, sana.

Laugher

Mr Hamududu: Sir, my wife has spoken very well.

 Laughter

 Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, I would like to join her in debating the report of your Committee. Indeed, it has wonderful insights. The nutrition status of the country, as revealed by your Committee, requires serious consideration in the sense that Zambia is now faced with what is called a double burden. On one hand, we have serious malnutrition and, on the other hand, levels of obesity are rising with all its ramifications.

Sir, let me start with the issue of malnutrition. At the moment, statistics indicate that the levels of acute malnutrition or stunted growth are about 40 per cent. This is a serious indictment on us, as a country.

 Mr Speaker, medical doctors know very well that acute malnutrition or stunted growth results in having children who are somehow ‘damaged’ because stunted growth depresses brain development. Therefore, brains of children who have stunted growth will never grow to a scale where they can think properly. Although it is difficult to describe this condition, it simply means that the damage that occurs during stunting cannot be reversed. Therefore, the country will have a population whose cognitive development is damaged for life. This has implications on their academic performance and achievement. This becomes a burden for the country.

Mr Speaker, the country can have good teachers, but there is no assurance that the children will grasp what the teacher is teaching because of the factor I mentioned earlier. In the long run, it will be difficult to have skilled manpower in the county. Therefore, stunted growth is a bad thing for a country. Forty per cent levels of stunted growth among children is bad for the future of the country. We must, therefore, try to reverse and eradicate stunted growth because we, as a country, risk having a bleak future if we have a population that will not have full brain development.

In addition, Mr Speaker, stunted growth reduces resistance to diseases in children. As your Committee’s report has revealed, children who are malnourished are susceptible to disease. The main cause of diseases among under-five children is malnutrition. Our health system is burdened because of an unhealthy population due malnutrition. We are dealing with the symptoms and not the causes because our health systems are overwhelmed with having a population that is not feeding properly and is, therefore, susceptible to disease.

As a country, it is cheaper to prevent diseases than to cure them.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on the right!

Mr Hamududu: If we addressed the issue of malnutrition squarely, we would have actually prevented a lot of problems that are borne by the Ministry of Health.

Sir, the other issue that affects our population due to malnutrition is the level of productivity. Many reports have indicated that the productivity of the country has gone down over the years. The reason is that we are raising a population that is not healthy enough to be productive. Malnutrition has consequences of lowering the productivity of our country. This has had an effect on the growth of our gross domestic product (GDP). First and foremost, we need a healthy population in order to grow our economy. Having a healthy population should be our priority. As a country, we need to address the issue of high statistics of malnutrition and stunted growth.

Mr Speaker, issues of malnutrition are multi-sectoral. The previous debater spoke about these issues from the health perspective. However, to address malnutrition, we need a multi-sectoral approach. One of the sectors that should help to reduce levels of malnutrition is agriculture because it produces food. Yesterday, we missed an opportunity to debate the Report of the Committee on Agriculture because, I think, we were fatigued. There are many issues we can raise on agriculture. For example, the belief that agriculture is equal to maize has contributed to the problem of malnutrition. Mealie meal alone is not enough. The country must have a balanced diet which is borne by diversified agriculture production. In most of our constituencies, maize is the only crop grown. Maize is simply a carbohydrate and does not have the accompanying nutrients. So, even our agriculture sector is on trial. We need to diversify agriculture not only for the viability of our farming business, but also to provide a variety of foods for our people.

Sir, your Committee’s report also brings out the issue of interrogating our agriculture policy. As a country, we were the early curtain raisers. The National Food and Nutrition Commission (NFNC) was formed in the first five years of Independence. This means that the country was conscious of this problem, but lost track over the years. For stunted growth levels to reach 40 per cent, it means that they have been increasing over the years. Therefore, the mechanisms to address stunted growth are becoming weaker every day. Going forward, there is a need to address this multi-sectoral problem. As the report has indicated, we need to profile the NFNC in our governance system. Being a multi-sectoral problem, the commission needs to be placed in the Office of the Vice-President or the President so that it can have the political clout to whip the ministries in line.

Sir, unsafe drinking water and poor sanitation can also cause malnutrition. However, the issue of malnutrition caused by contaminated water and poor sanitation lies in another ministry. When children drink unclean or dirty water, they can have malnutrition. A child who has worms cannot easily digest food. So, there may be enough food but, if the water is dirty, that can also cause malnutrition. Your Committee has appealed to the Government to expedite the amendment of the National Food and Nutrition Commission Act and place it under an office where it will have the right political clout and position to whip the different ministries in as far as the nutritional agenda is concerned. The issue of the provision of clean water must be addressed. The hon. Minister of Health cannot cross over to the Ministry of Local Governance and Housing or peer ministry to tell it that the main cause of malnutrition among children is poor provision of water and sanitation services. We need a higher body to do this.

Mr Speaker, malnutrition has a gender perspective. It is said that the first 1,000 days of a child, from conception to his/her second birthday, are critical. Therefore, this period should be ring-fenced. A mother needs to have good nutrition from the time she gets pregnant because the development of a child begins at that moment. Therefore, in the first 1,000 days of the development of a child, a mother must be provided with the right nutrition. This should continue when the child is born. Zambia was the first country in the southern part of Africa to launch the 1000 Most Critical Days Programme. However, this was simply a launch because we have not walked the talk. We have sufficient policies but, if we do not have the institutional arrangements in place, we shall not put the money where it matters.

Sir, one hon. Member said that when he attended a conference in Namibia, the Former Prime Minister, who is now an advocate of scaling up nutrition, questioned why stunted growth is not getting the right attention in most countries, not just Zambia. He wondered whether the reason was that children do not vote. If children voted, governments would pay more attention and the politicians would debate more about nutrition. However, because children do not vote, this issue is not receiving adequate attention.

Mr Speaker, Zambia is a signatory to a number of conventions and is also part of the Scaling Up Nutrition Programme. So, it is time we walked the talk. The commitments made by the then Vice-President at the London Nutritional Conference were quite flamboyant and Zambia was celebrated, at least, at that level. However, beyond that, we did not walk the talk. In the meantime, we are faced with the possibility of having high stunted growth levels in our country.

Sir, with all these ramifications that I have talked about, it is high time we put in place the right structures and framework, put money where it matters, and ensured that all the institutions that are mandated to reduce malnutrition levels begin to work together. We can come up with a trajectory and say that, for instance, in the next five, ten or fifteen years, we can continue to reduce the rates of stunted growth. If we do not do that, then, as politicians, we become irrelevant to the social welfare of our people. I know it is very boring. It is ‘sexy’, but this is a very important issue, as it affects our people. As a country, we need to hold the bull by its horns and address this issue.

Mr Speaker, I hope that we, in the political arena, can understand the implications of a country that has over 40 per cent of children with stunted growth. This means that they have literally small brains and are facing a bleak future. These are the real issues that we must discuss in future. I know this problem did not start in the recent past, as it is an old problem that has got entrenched. However, we, in the leadership, must do everything within our power to address this problem. I hope when the hon. Minister winds up debate, he will state what the Executive is doing to expedite the revision of the National Food and Nutrition Commission Act going in future in view of the problem that we are faced with as revealed in the report.

Mr Speaker, the last issue in your Committee’s report that I would like to address is that of Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV) and Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (AIDS). I can gladly state that, today, science has provided a solution to this problem.

As you may be aware, HIV/AIDS has caused havoc in my constituency and everywhere else by literally bringing down people who are pillars of society. Fortunately, science has provided a solution to this problem, but only if the world population could go for voluntary counselling and testing (VCT) to seek help.

Today, the advent of Anti-retroviral drugs (ARVs) has made it possible to stabilise the lives of the people who are infected with the virus if diagnosed at an early stage. We have doctors in this House and they will say it better than me.

By the way, if someone is diagnosed HIV positive, it does not mean that they are a lesser being than others. I may be HIV positive, but the important thing to do once one knows his/her status is to get help. Unfortunately, many people live in denial. If it were possible, I would suggest that as a country, all of us should get tested, at least, once every year. Then, we can save our population. If all of us agreed to go for VCT every year, it would be helpful because those found HIV positive can get help which is readily available. That way, they would live longer. If one is a parent, they would live long enough to see their children complete school. However, due to denial and fear, people are dying prematurely because they only get to know their status when it is too late when their organs have been infected.

Sir, it is for this reason that I would like to urge all the leaders to lead by example by knowing their HIV status. It does not mean that if one tests HIV positive, then, he/she has been promiscuous or playful. Anybody can be infected. For example, I could infect my wife with the virus, but she must save her life by knowing her status because it takes two to tango.

In fact, in most cases, people who are infected are the innocent ones whilst the most playful ones do not get the disease. It is the people who experiment with sexual intercourse that contract the disease. Therefore, let us save the naïve section of the population that wanted to experiment, but did not know how to ‘play football with the right boots’.

This is a reality because we see pregnancies everywhere in our churches, schools, families and so on and so forth, but people choose to bury their heads in the sand in fear of talking about such issues. Pregnancies are there in the families, people’s children are affected, but they refuse to talk about HIV/AIDS or condoms in church. Why is that so when people are having sexual intercourse? So, let us save our people and be mindful of the fact that it is not being less Christian if we discuss such issues. Let us save our population.

Mr Speaker, it is possible in our lifetime to address the issue of HIV/AIDS if we are bold enough and transparent. By the way, if I go for an HIV test, it is a secret amongst my wife, my dear daughters and myself. So, no one will know about it. It is a secret.

So, I would like to urge the Government to lead the way. This does not mean that people’s statuses will be exposed. We do not want to hear anyone pronouncing that they are HIV positive. That is not important. You might be negative today but, tomorrow, you may be positive. You are not an angel. As long as you are sexually active, you are a possible candidate of HIV infection unless you become a priest.

Interruptions

Mr Hamududu: Yes, if you are having sex, then, you are a candidate because you do not do it alone. This is a reality and it must be said the way it is.

Hon. Government Member: But we see!

Mr Speaker: Ah! Hon. Member!

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: I have seen you, my brother. See me at break time. I want to counsel you.

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: We can walk together to the VCT Centre so that we know our statuses today. This will be between you and me. This is very important.

Mr Speaker, I wish to thank your Committee, the Chairperson and the Madam, here, for the wonderful report.

I thank you, Sir.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Thank you, Mr Speaker. Let me also join my colleagues in thanking the Chairperson of your Committee and the seconder for the wonderful report.

Sir, the topic is important because it is in line with the present global revolution. In my view, the most important part of this report is in the last paragraph of page 10, which says:

“The country needs competences and skills in nutrition issues to better understand the importance of nutrition.”

This is the seminal statement in this report in understanding the importance of nutrition and issues that are relevant to that.

Mr Speaker, if we pay attention to what is happening in the field of nutrition and its relationship to health, we can actually say that issues of nutrition are what has affected the world today. It is actually a revolution which is taking place globally just like the revolution in Information Communication Technology (ICT). This revolution arises from the fear and understanding that the world has become highly contaminated with all the fertilisers and pesticides that have been in use for many years now, especially in the industrialised world.

The second issue giving rise to the revolution is the highly-refined food that has engulfed the food industry. If we look at the literature on nutrition today, things like white sugar, for example, is being defined as white death.

Hon. Members: Oh!

Prof. Lungwangwa: So, many people are shunning white death. Too much refined food is not good for health. That is a warning if we look at the literature on nutrition.

Then, we have the whole concern about the relationship between what we eat and our health. A lot of literature is pointing to the fact that things like cancer, blood pressure, arthritis and many other health-related problems are associated with lifestyles. All these health problems, to a large extent, emanate from what we eat and how we eat it. The literature now says eating right is very important. The question is: What is eating right?

Sir, if we look at what is coming out of research, it is actually telling us that naturally, our bodies are supposed to be 80 per cent alkaline and 20 per cent acidic. That is the natural balance. When the body is balanced that way, there are very few health-related problems, especially lifestyle health-related problems like blood pressure (BP).

Mr Speaker, the imbalance in our bodies arises from what we eat or what we put in our bodies which, eventually, raises the acidic levels and lowers the alkaline levels in the body. In the end, this creates problems. The question is: What should we really do as a nation?

The problem is that we do not know much about what we eat or what we put on the table. There is very little knowledge and understanding of what we eat scientifically speaking. There is a lack of scientific knowledge about the foodstuff that we eat.

Sir, there are various types of vegetables which are grown in this country. Some of the vegetables are grown in our natural environment and are not contaminated with fertilisers. So, they are good for our bodies. However, how much research has gone into understanding the nutritional value of such vegetables and its importance to our health. We have very little knowledge of that. For example, we do not have knowledge about what is contained in cassava leaves and many other indigenous vegetables. There is a need for that knowledge to be generated so that we understand what is put on the table in terms of its value to our health.

Mr Speaker, there are varieties of cereals in this country, namely sorghum, millet and many others which are good for our nutrition. However, why do we prefer breakfast meal to millet, sorghum and other types of cereals that people have been eating for centuries and have kept them healthy?

Sir, as a country, we have no idea of the nutritional value of sorghum and millet. We need to generate this type of knowledge. Literature concerning food values says that fermented food is good for the body because our bodies have both good and bad bacteria. Bad bacteria is what is a danger to the health of a person while good bacteria is good for our bodies. Fermented food contributes to the presence of good bacteria in our bodies or the gut. Eating things like sour milk or mabisi is good for our bodies. However, how much scientific knowledge have we generated to understand the nutritional value of fermented food? We have very little knowledge regarding that. We just put sour milk on the table without understanding its nutritional significance. We do not understand why it is important for us to eat or take sour milk from time to time. This is very unfortunate.

Mr Speaker, this country has a wide variety of fish species. Fish has high nutritional value. Literature on the importance of consuming Omega-3 and 6 fatty acids recommends the eating fish from deep seas. We may not have deep seas here in Zambia, but we have a variety of fish. How much research has gone into the nutritional composition of the different types of fish and why it is important for us to know what nutritional value we get from them? For instance, we do not know the nutritional value of bubble fish, yet we eat it. That is the most unfortunate part.

Sir, given the current revolution in the scientific world, we need to do more. We need to understand the various types of food that we eat. If we look at the types of meat that is consumed globally, literature indicates that meat from grass-fed animals is the best. That means meat from traditional cattle is the best. However, how much of that do we know? Given a choice between beef from the traditional sector and that which comes from the commercial sector, many of us would go for beef from the commercial sector. That is the case even though scientific literature tells us that grass-fed cattle has the best nutritional value. Literature further shows that eggs from free-range chickens are the best because they have more nutrients.

Mr Speaker, all this information, which is readily available on the internet, is important. As a country, we need to pay special attention to the scientific bases of the food that we eat. We need to conduct scientific research on the type of food that is available in the country and the nutritional value of the types of food that we have. That way, people will understand why it is important to eat certain types of food. They will also understand why it is important to refrain, as much as possible, from fast foods. The fast food industry is a danger to our health. There is plenty of literature to that effect. So, as your Committee’s report has pointed out, as a country, we need to develop competencies and skills in the field of nutrition so that we can generate the scientific basis of the types of food that we eat. This can eventually enable us to understand the importance of eating the right type of food. That way, we shall also not neglect the healthy foods, which we have been growing for a long time.

Sir, medical doctors should give us more of that information so that the entire nation is conscientised on what to eat and how to eat it, and why it is important to eat certain types of food. We should not continue with the habits of liking foreign foodstuffs, especially those that have been refined because they are a danger to our health.

I thank you, Sir.

The Minister of Health (Dr Kasonde): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to respond to this very important debate. I wish to start by acknowledging, with thanks, the mover and seconder of the Motion who drew our attention to the very important issues relating to the National Food and Nutrition Commission (NFNC), the funding, the multi-sectoral human resources and other powers.

Sir, your Committee discussed the issue of the human immunodeficiency virus/acquired immune deficiency syndrome (HIV/AIDS) and drew attention to the important issues of dependence on donor funding, financial constraints and the co-ordination of various institutions’ involvement in healthcare.

Sir, I also wish to thank those who have contributed to this debate. I know that hon. Members, starting with the hon. Member for Luena, made important contributions. I suppose that the hon. Member’s concern for height may be taken for what it is in spite of the usual saying that, “Size does not matter”.

Laughter

Dr Kasonde: I thank the hon. Member for Bweengwa for his remarks. I have known his contribution towards advocacy in this field for a long time and it is a welcome occasion for me to recognise all the points that he has made in his characteristic descriptive fashion.

Finally, I want to thank the hon. Member for Nalikwanda for his attention to the important issue of scientific knowledge and the need for research in this area. On this occasion, he veered off his customary philosophical emphasis on the social sciences and presented what I think is the solid evidence of the hard sciences.

Sir, in responding to all this, I will say that it is my duty to take into account what has been suggested and ensure that it is followed up. I have colleagues who have taken notes on the debates. All the points that have been raised will be the subject of not only our future discussions, but action.

Mr Speaker, maybe, I can just slightly address the two issues of co-ordination and funding. It might be worth looking at this from an evolutionary perspective so that we can, at least, begin to know how there has been this discrepancy between the rate at which there are changes in practice and that at which policy has evolved.

Sir, in the case of the NFNC, we know that when it was founded, we were in an era when children with kwashiorkor and marasmus occupied most of the wards in hospitals. We were in an era when vitamin A and other micro nutrients, including iodine, were the subject of intense research. Our forefathers decided that these were the areas that were to be focused on. We know that since then, we have evolved to a point where we recognise the precursors of those conditions upon which we were focusing. The precursors have now led us to talk more about the areas of malnutrition that lead to stunting in children’s growth.

Therefore, I appreciate the need to move from those fundamentals of yester year to a revised national food and nutrition commission law. I can assure the hon. Members that this is what we are still doing. We can move away from reference to the Ministry of Health as the basis for our nutritional policies to a multi-sectoral approach. Indeed, the issue of whether we locate the NFNC in the Ministry of Health or, perhaps, at another level such as the Office of the Vice-President, has also been the subject of discussion. I look forward to the conclusion of this matter fairly soon.

Sir, we know that a similar pattern has evolved in the area of HIV/AIDS,. We recall the era in which more than half, perhaps three quarters of our wards, were full of patients with AIDS. Therefore, the emphasis of those days was on how we were going to handle the patients. We have evolved to a point where hospital wards do not consist only of AIDS patients. We must now look at the broader picture of how people can live in a healthy way. Hence, the issue of co-ordination in HIV/AIDS programmes becomes equally important. It has been our intention and practice to emphasise the coordinating role of the Ministry of Health.

With regard to funding, we must recall that as far back as 2011, we proposed a social health insurance scheme. We thought what had been recommended in 2002 for funding the HIV response could be incorporated into this proposal. To date, we have been unable to conclude that subject for various reasons. Our belief is that when that subject is concluded, which should be soon, we shall be able to apportion the extent of funding to the health services as a whole in a different way as opposed to its being the HIV/AIDS response only.

Sir, in conclusion, one can say that we recognise the importance of co-ordination and funding. In this case, your Committee is pushing open an already open door. The Executive has been working on this matter to the point where this discussion only emphasises what the Executive has been doing. It also emphasises that this is a non-partisan issue upon which we must unite to strengthen the NFNC and the research within it. We must also unite to strengthen our efforts in the control of the spread of HIV/AIDS.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, allow me to thank the hon. Members who debated, namely Hon. Imenda, Hon. Hamududu and Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa. I also wish to thank the hon. Minister for his contribution and observations on our report, and the whole House for supporting our report. I wish to urge the hon. Members to pass the Motion.

Thank you so much, Mr Speaker.

Question put and agreed to.

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE ON THE REPORT OF THE AUDITOR-GENERAL ON THE SUSTAINABLE MANAGEMENT OF FISH RESOURCES IN NATURAL WATERS

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Agriculture on the Report of the Auditor-General on the Sustainable Management of Fish Resources in Natural Waters for the Fifth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on 7^th April, 2016.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, based on its terms of reference, your Committee considered the Report of the Auditor-General on Sustainable Management of Fish Resources in Natural Waters.

 Sir, I presume that the hon. Members have had an opportunity to read your Committee’s report. I will, therefore, only highlight a few issues from the report.

Mr Speaker, fisheries are an important source of food, economic, have social and cultural benefits and contribute to rural development through employment-creation, income-generation and poverty-reduction. However, the fisheries subsector has, for a long time, been faced with some challenges such as over-fishing, degradation of fish habitats and the use of destructive and unsustainable fish methods such as the use of poisons, explosives and mosquito nets which have contributed to the depletion of fish stocks in our water bodies. In considering the audit report, your Committee invited various stakeholders to present oral and written submissions.

Mr Speaker, arising from the deliberations and consultations with various stakeholders, your Committee observes and recommends that:

(a)        according to the Fisheries Act, the Department of Fisheries assesses fishing stocks and collects statistics, including details of catches. Therefore, fisheries management should be based on scientific evidence available in order to determine allowable catch and optimum utilisation. However, your Committee notes that the catch assessment surveys and frame surveys for most of the natural water fisheries are either out of date, not undertaken timely or their contents are not disseminated widely. In light of this, your Committee strongly recommends that adequate and timely funding be released to the department to ensure that surveillance activities are conducted on time;

(b)        your Committee also observes that the lack of limitation of fishing activities in the fishery areas in Zambia has resulted in over-fishing in most fisheries areas. Your Committee urges the ministry to ensure that corrective measures are employed which will ensure that fishing activities are brought to acceptable levels.

(c)        Mr Speaker, your Committee sadly notes that there has been an increase in the number of rigs on Lake Kariba which stands at 722 instead of the recommended 240. Your Committee strongly implores the Government to ensure that the correct number of rigs is maintained on Lake Kariba as a matter of urgency to avoid pollution …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, I will repeat where I ended when business was suspended.

(c)        Mr Speaker, your Committee sadly notes that there is an increase in the number of rigs on Lake Kariba which stands at 722 instead of the recommended 240. Your Committee strongly implores the Government to ensure that the correct number of rigs is maintained on Lake Kariba as a matter of urgency to avoid pollution of the waters and depletion of the fish resources in the lake.

(d)        your Committee further observes that there is a lack of fisheries management plans in most of the fisheries management areas. This has resulted in the failure to manage fish resources on a co-management basis with the community. In light of this, your Committee strongly recommends that measures be put in place to ensure that the fisheries management plans in the fisheries areas are implemented without undue delay; and

(e)        your Committee commends the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock for providing alternative livelihoods for the fishing communities in some fisheries areas to reduce overdependence on fishing. However, your Committee notes that the lack of fisheries regulations has left the breeding areas unprotected, leading to the depletion of fish resources. Your Committee strongly implores the ministry to expedite the amendments to the Fisheries Act and regulations to ensure that breeding areas are identified, gazetted and, thereafter, protected.

In conclusion, Mr Speaker, allow me to thank the witnesses who appeared before your Committee for their co-operation in providing the necessary information that was used in considering the audit report. Your Committee also wishes to record its indebtedness to you, Mr Speaker, the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly and the Office of the Auditor-General for the guidance given during its deliberations.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Namulambe: Now, Sir.

Mr Speaker, in seconding the Motion to adopt the Report of the Committee on Agriculture on the Report of the Auditor-General on the Sustainable Management of Fish Resources in Natural Waters for the Fifth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on 7^th April, 2016, allow me to thank the Chairperson for ably moving the Motion. Let me also thank the Auditor-General’s Office for the performance audit which brought out salient issues pertaining to the fisheries sector.

Mr Speaker, the Chairperson has already brought out the major issues that caught the attention of your Committee during its deliberations. Therefore, I will highlight a few of them. The Government needs to recognise fisheries as a priority sector and scale up incentives, especially in aquaculture, to encourage production at small-scale level. This can be done by intensifying research in the fisheries and aquaculture sector in the existing research institutions. Your Committee regrets to inform the House that Mwekera Research Centre receives less funding, yet we have state-of-the-art infrastructure which can help a lot to improve the fisheries sector. For instance, Fiyongoli in Luapula is also a research centre, but has also been receiving less funding from the Government. It is for this reason that your Committee feels it is prudent that the Government invests more in the research institutions that are there throughout the country and, if possible, establish a research institution per province.

Mr Speaker, given the current funding and operational challenges faced by the Department of Fisheries, it is necessary for the Government to increase funding to the fisheries sector in order to enhance development of the sector in Zambia. We should not import fish when we can be self sufficient.

Mr Speaker, your Committee also observed that fish farmers were not issued with licences, contrary to the Fisheries Act, which states that persons engaging in aquaculture should be issued with a licence. The Department of Fisheries did not issue licences because the aquaculture regulations are not in place to guide the issuance of the said licences.

In conclusion, Mr Speaker, your Committee urges the Government to enact the Fisheries Act of 2011 in which there is a provision for the establishment of the Aquaculture and Fisheries Fund. This will help to improve the enforcement of regulations both at the landing sites and in the water.

Mr Speaker, I wish to pay tribute to your Committee for the manner in which it conducted its deliberations and observed the views of all the witnesses who appeared before it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate. Today, is my day.

Mr Speaker, I appreciate the report of your Committee. I think the Auditor-General has begun to help your Committees by providing performance audits on different sectors. Your Committees will be more effective if they are availed with such performance audits that are more scientific to look at some of the topical issues. This report has brought out salient issues in the area of fisheries.

Mr Speaker, following the presentation of your Committee’s report, I have a few issues to raise.  Zambia is blessed with huge fresh water bodies. Literally every province has either a lake or river. This is not a mean blessing. In some countries, children have to go to the so-called rivers after the rains to see the water flow. These are called rivers but, ordinarily, there is no water in them. I lived in a country where a bridge was built over a river which had no water in it. When it rained, we rushed to take the children there to see the water flow. Zambia has perennial rivers. I was privileged to fly over Luapula Province and the water mass there is the most beautiful in Sub-Saharan Africa. If people want to have a clear view of the country, they must fly in a helicopter. Maybe, we should introduce helicopters to fly people over the country so that they can appreciate their country because when they drive, they do not see how beautiful the country is. I had an opportunity to fly in a helicopter over the northern circuit of this country. This enabled me to see how beautiful this country is. It has everything it takes to be a great country. In my area, we have the Kafue north and south banks. That, too, is a wonderful water mass. 

Sir, the problems in the fisheries sector over the years have been as a result of this country’s disorder. The country lacks law and order and this has affected many areas of development. There is no order and the fisheries sector is not exempt from this. The breeding grounds for fish have been ransacked. In the Kafue South Bank, there were designated breeding grounds for fish and no one was supposed to fish there. What has happened in this country is scandalous. Fishermen go to the breeding grounds to catch everything, including fish eggs, using shikukula, a net similar to a mosquito net.  

Hon. UPND Member interjected.

Mr Hamududu: Yes.

Mr Mwila: Kutumpula!

Mr Hamududu: What is it called? 

Mr Mwila: Kutumpula!

Mr Hamududu: Yes, I saw them while in the helicopter. The fishermen were catching everything.

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: Yes, you live nearer the place.

Mr Mwila interjected.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, it is important that the water bodies be looked after before we go to the next level of fish farming. The other time, I saw the hon. Minister of Finance cutting a cheque for Senior Chief Inyambo Yeta for a fish project. This was a wonderful move and we need to see a lot of these projects around the country.

Farmers have many options. What we lack in this country are extension services. Our farmers do not know that there are other options apart from maize farming. While maize is important and we must grow enough of it for consumption and export, there are other options. I am happy that we have opened up the borders. The Food Reserve Agency (FRA) can buy and reserve some of the maize for the country, but the rest must be exported. Let us turn farming into a serious business and conquer the market in the region which is begging for our food.

Sir, it is shameful that a country that is blessed with such fresh water masses should import fish from the polluted waters of Asia. We have cleaner waters. The market in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and Angola is begging for our fish and many other products. However, what has happened in the fisheries sector, whose headquarters are in Chilanga, is shameful. Just like we have game guards for our wildlife, we should have fish guards to guard the breeding grounds like the case was before. The Fisheries Department has collapsed.

The secret in regenerating fish breeding is to zone off the breeding areas and stationing armed fish guards to curb illegal fishing. Illegal fishing is not good not only for the fishermen themselves, but also for everybody else because when there is no fish, people will starve. We must help our people by disallowing this disorder. Law and order is good for our people. I hope that the Government will map out all the water bodies as soon as possible and create breeding grounds in every lake and river, and station fish guards there. 

In the next few years, the fish will multiply and we shall have good fish from our fresh waters, supplemented by the growing fish farming which we must also address aggressively. This is possible. The poverty that we have in this country is artificial. Go to Botswana or Namibia and see how limited farming land there is. Botswana or Namibia, someone can have a few livestock which drinks water that comes from 100 m underground. Here, in Zambia, we can do almost everything.

Sir, fisheries can be one of the biggest sectors in this country. The goodness with fishing, just like any other farming business, is that it has a shorter gestation period. In the next two to three years, we can become a net exporter of fish and begin to earn foreign exchange.

The only solution to the vulnerability of our kwacha is production. We have said this over and over again. It is a written economic fact, backed by evidence, that unless we begin to export, the kwacha will remain vulnerable. It is not about tinkering with policies, but about production. The fisheries sector is capable of earning us foreign exchange. However, we are paying out dollars in this area instead of earning them. Yesterday, my brother showed me fish that came all the way from China. Can you imagine that? This fish is even cheaper than Zambian fish. There is short supply of fish in this country. Let us have some order in our fish bodies. This is the solution.

Sir, I would like to raise an issue that is related to fishing. I would like my hon. Colleagues, when they have time, to fly over the fishing camps near the lakes and rivers. These camps are supposed to be temporary. People are supposed to go to fishing camps to fish, then, go back to the upper land. Instead, they have made the fishing camps, which their unsanitary conditions, permanent homes. They are raising children in dump places and want schools built there. I visited one fishing camp and asked the people there to return to the upper land. There is no way they can ask for a school to be put up in the swamps. These people must have a homestead right in the inland and only go to the camps to fish. 

Mr Speaker, illegal fishing cannot be controlled even when there is a ban because people live in the fisheries areas and fish at night when others are sleeping. Fish guards will have a problem in the night. Maintaining law and order is a mammoth task for this country. The last fifty years of Independence have been bad. Do you know that we made a big mistake at Independence? We gave freedom without responsibility and it has ‘killed’ this country. It is such a mammoth task to bring order in this country.  I am sure that your Committee that went to Lochinvar National Park saw the situation on the ground.  People cannot live in these areas like that.

Mr Speaker, we keep cattle and we have cattle camps. We go to the cattle camps and back home. My cattle herders’ wives are at home. They go to the camps simply to work. We will not build a school in the Kafue South Bank, neither will we build roads there because the area is for fishing and cattle grazing and not for people to live in. There is enough upper land for schools and roads.

Our people take the cattle to the camps for grazing and when the floods come, they go back to their villages. The fishermen, however, have set up homes in bad conditions. This is why there is havoc when there is an outbreak of cholera in the camps. We have gone through this before. I have been to the banks of Lake Tanganyika and it is despicable. Human beings should not live in such conditions. Children cannot grow up in such unsanitary conditions that are not fit for their growth. Can we resettle these people back to the mainland? They can go to the camps during the fishing season. The first thing we need to do is bring order. Even if you station the fishing guards in these places, it will not work. Do you think that if people lived in national parks, there would be animals there?

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: How can a starving man live in the national park and just watch an animal trespass in front of his house? 

Ms Kapata: Question!

Mr Hamududu: Yes. Even you can do it.

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: If you have no relish and an animal wants to enter your house, you will catch it.

Ms Kapata: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Hamududu: So, keep the people away. This is what happens.

Mr Speaker, I have lived in a country where there is order. This is the country where my daughters were born.

Interruptions

Mr Hamududu: You must learn from …

Mr Speaker: Continue, hon. Member.

Mr Hamududu: You know …

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: I want to give an example of the diamond mining industry. All the diamond areas in Namibia and Botswana are restricted. In this country, anybody can go to an area where emeralds are mined. People are playing with expensive stones. Such areas are restricted in Namibia and Botswana. Wherever diamonds are discovered, people are moved. These countries can account for the minerals that are mined. Here, there is no accountability. The value of emeralds is slightly lower than that of diamonds. However, what value have they added to this country? There is no value because of a lack of law and order, just like in fishing.

The leader who will transform this country is the one who will crack the whip. It has to be a leader who will be in office and seek re-election, but to work.

Mr Miyanda: Correct!

Mr Hamududu: The problem is that when you are in office, all that you think about is winning the next election. You are not voted for in order to be re-elected. You are voted into power to work. At the moment, the whole political arena is about being voted back in office. When you win the election, you are scared of removing people who have illegally settled in unsanitary places because you want their vote. The vote has destroyed our country. This democracy is not helping us at all. This country is waiting for a Jerry Rawlings. It is waiting for a Paul Kagame.

Interruptions

Mr Hamududu: Yes, to crack the whip.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: There is disorder and confusion in every sector. When you drive from Livingstone to Chililabombwe, all that you see are shanty compounds with structures that have black plastic sheets as roofs as if there was a war, and you call this a country. Are you going forward or backwards?

Mr Miyanda: Backwards!

Mr Hamududu: There is disorder everywhere. Let us save our people. If I have a problem in the stomach, do not give me panadol when I need an operation. Cut me up. In this country, you give panadol and massage the problem until you find someone dead in bed. Would you say that you loved that person? If the problem requires an operation, then, operate. Cut and remove the bad parts.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Hamududu: Yes!

Sir, I thought I must emphasise this. The issue is bigger than just breeding grounds. With law and order, this country can develop.

Mr Speaker, I thank you and I support the report of your Committee.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear. Hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister of Agriculture, respond to a solo debate.

Laughter

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Lubinda): Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to make a few comments on the Motion moved by the Member of Parliament for Rufunsa, Hon. Chipungu. In so doing, let me also seize this opportunity to thank the Auditor-General’s Office for a very well-written audit report and your Committee for a well-summarised report which highlighted a number of issues that the Government is happy to receive.

Sir, I would also like to commend the mover and seconder of the Motion for the manner in which they raised the pertinent issues arising from the report. It would be amiss if I did not add Hon. Hamududu to the list because he was the only debater. Like he said, this is his day. The others are still recovering from the shock of the weekend ...

Mr Speaker: Now, we are going into another territory.

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: My apologies, Sir. Allow me, however, to just make a few comments.

Mr Speaker, Hon. Chipungu spoke about the need for assessing fish stocks and catches. This is called the biomass in fisheries. I could not agree with Hon. Chipungu and your Committee anymore than I already have. It is lamentable that from 1977, as is reported on page 5 of your Committee’s report, nothing had been done in regard to assessing the biomass in fisheries in Zambia until work started in 2014 when this Government took office. However, I am glad that this Government has started to work on that. I assure the nation and your Committee that the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock is committed to conducting the biomass survey in the fisheries industry.

Sir, I wish to thank Hon. Chipungu and his team for encouraging us to release adequate resources in a timely manner in order for this to happen. We cannot possibly conduct such an assessment without adequate resources being released at the right time.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock is already in discussion with a number of our co-operating partners who have shown willingness to partner with the Government in conducting this important assessment. It is my hope that when we meet this time next year, Hon. Monde, as Minister of Fisheries and Livestock, will come and report progress to this House because we are determined to do that.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Sir, the other matter which Hon. ...

Mr Speaker: Just on that point, you were probably not present when I gave guidance. I said that we should try to steer off those kinds of statements which are inclined to predict outcomes.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I certainly was not in the House when you gave that guidance. I apologise. Let me rephrase it by saying the person who will be Minister of Fisheries and Livestock next year will come and give a report ...

Mr Speaker: That is better.

Mr Lubinda: ... that progress has been made because the Government has already put measures in place to ensure that this is achieved.

Sir, the issue of rigs on Lake Kariba is another vexing one. This is also related to the control of fishing in all other shared water resources. There are instances when we impose a fishing ban in Zambia, but the other riparian states do not reciprocate. My colleague and brother, the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock, is engaging with his counterparts in the riparian states for us to ensure that the regulation of the fishing ban is done jointly in the spirit of the Southern African Development Community (SADC) Protocol on Fisheries. Very soon, the Republic of Zambia will be ratifying the International Protocol on the Control of Illegal Fishing. This will also enhance our ability to control fishing in our natural water bodies.

Mr Speaker, with specific reference to Lake Kariba, the rigs we are speaking about are from both Zimbabwe and Zambia. It might be recalled that there was a time when the Fisheries Department in Zambia swung into action to try to reduce the number of rigs from the Zambian side. However, there was an outcry that the Zimbabwean side was not doing the same and, therefore, we were allowing fishermen from our neighbouring country to fish more than the Zambian fishermen. This is a matter that requires the joint effort of the two countries. I am sure discussions are ongoing.

Sir, in relation to that is another matter that I am sure my colleagues on your Committee might not have been aware of, which is that fish that is imported from Zimbabwe, for instance, does not attract a levy, yet the fish that is fished from the Kariba attracts a levy. This is another matter that the ministry is aware of and is working to harmonise.

Mr Speaker, the fisheries subsector had to wait for the Patriotic Front (PF) to be put in Government for it to start working on the fisheries management plans. However, the rate has been slow. Nonetheless, something has started and credit must be given where it is due.

Hon. Government Members: Knobkerries

Mr Lubinda: The PF Government deserves to be commended. I am sure that those who will succeed the PF will find it a lot easier than we found it ...

Interruptions

Mr Lubinda: Sir, I am being guided.

Mr Speaker: Just continue with your remarks.

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: I will not veer off that line of debate.

Sir, it has been fifty-two years since Independence, but it has taken the PF only five years to implement three out of the eleven fisheries management plans. I wish to congratulate the PF Government on that.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: It shows that this Government is capable of delivering and I am sure it will do so.

Mr Speaker, Hon. Namulambe raised another important issue of the need for investment in research and development. We ought to invest in research and development. However, that should not be Government led, but private sector led. The private sector has responded well to the good policies being implemented by the PF Government. At the moment, there are more than eight main producers of fish in Zambia. Without meaning to embarrass anyone, I would like to single out a few. There is Kafue Fisheries, Yalelo Fisheries, Lake Harvest, Mpembe Fisheries, Savannah Fisheries and Palabana Fisheries. Hon. Namulambe, the seconder of your Committee’s report told us in the last sitting that he also has a fisheries pond somewhere. There are many other smaller ponds. The major ones, Sir, have also invested in research and development and we would like to commend them for that work. 

Mr Speaker, the Government is also making an effort to ensure that Chilanga and Mwekera are revived for them to provide the much-needed research in fish breeds and varieties. I wish to agree with Hon. Namulambe on increasing fish production. This is a matter that Hon. Hamududu also referred to. To put this in the right context, instead of just speaking generally, I would like to inform the listeners and the House that Hon. Hamududu is right. We have 10 million hectares of land in Zambia which is constantly under water. Hon. Hamududu imagines how much fish could be produced in an expanse of 10 million hectares of water. It is a huge quantity. What is required is to continue to pursue the policies that encourage private investors to invest in the aquaculture industry.

Mr Speaker, we cannot only rely on natural water bodies. We also ought to invest in fish farming. This is the reason fisheries is a part of the Ministry of Agriculture. It is not wildlife, but a culture that we should manage. We should not just leave the fish in natural water bodies and harvest it later on. We ought to start farming fish. With all this abundant water, it is possible for us to do that. Fish farming is not necessarily about opening up ponds. I say so because some of the fish companies I have mentioned are actually farming fish in natural water bodies. Mpembe Fisheries is farming on Lake Tanganyika. Yalelo Fisheries is farming on Lake Kariba. Those of us in the House who are also keen on investment, should advantage of the abundant water resources we have.

Sir, the fish that is imported from Asia that my hon. Colleagues talked about is not from natural water bodies only. As a matter of fact, Tilapia is not from the seas of China because it does not grow in salty water. It grows in fresh water. This means that in China, Tilapia is grown in ponds. We can also do it. I wish to contend that so far, the PF has shown its ability to provide the framework to encourage investment in fish culture. I am sure that going forward, more and more people will invest in this important sector. This is a matter that also relates to the lamentation by my colleague and friend, Hon. Hamududu, when he debated the earlier report on nutrition and also on fisheries. He spoke about the dangers of being dependant on maize only. The PF Government agrees with this entirely. I am glad to say that today, Hon. Hamududu is also willing to join us in the campaign to encourage the farmers to move away from monocropping. They should move from maize-centric agriculture and diversify to other crops.

Sir, on 12^th October, 2015, His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, went to Mbabala to launch the Electronic Voucher System (e-Voucher System). During the launch of the e-Voucher System, His Excellency informed the country that one of the objectives of that system was to encourage farmers to move away from maize farming so that they could also invest in other agricultural practices such as fisheries. I am sure that had Hon. Hamududu come to that meeting, he would have already assisted us in campaigning amongst the farmers in that area for them to move away from maize and go into fishing, rearing goats and producing sorghum. Over the last one year, this would have tremendously improved the nutrition at household level.

Mr Speaker, I am sure that he has become a convert and that he will continue to assist us in our campaigns. Without a serious campaign on this, this will not be done. Farmers are already too used to maize farming and I am sure that they need a bit of a push from their political leaders for them to see that there is something better beyond maize. This is our determination. That is the reason we took the bold decision that instead of giving farmers maize every year, we should liberate them through the e-Voucher System so that those who do not wish to buy maize seed can do so. Instead, they should go to Mwekera and Chilanga to buy fingerlings which they can use to start their fish farming projects in the various parts of the country.

Mr Speaker, with regard to the management of fish resources, the PF Government realises that this requires a lot of concerted effort. The first one is the harmonisation of pieces of legislation. Like the report highlights, there are pieces of legislation that do not seem to talk to each other in so far as fisheries is concerned and these are the Fisheries Act, Animal Act and the Environmental Protection Act. Each one of these Acts seems to present a different scenario on the management of the fish resource. Unfortunately, only two ministries are responsible for the various aspects of harmonising the pieces of legislation. These are the Ministries of Livestock and Fisheries and Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection. This also applies to the issues of the policy. A few weeks ago, the Cabinet approved the second National Agricultural Policy for 2016/2020. When that policy has been approved by the Cabinet, the two ministries responsible for this sector will now generate sub-sector policies which will include the policy on fishing and fisheries.

Sir, the other issue, which I said should be in tandem with the amendment and harmonisation of the laws, is that of personnel. Last year, I reported that the ministries responsible for fisheries and agriculture had received authority from the Treasury to employ 500 extension workers. Of the 500 workers, 115 were fish extension officers who have been posted to various fishing areas to promote fish farming. I also agree that the responsibility of the fish extension officers must not include the policing of natural water bodies. We must have a team that is dedicated to that.

However, Sir, you may recall that the visionary President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, when he was launching the Marine Unit on the lake in the Northern Province, announced that one of the objectives of the Marine Unit was to ensure the enforcement of the fisheries law to control illegal fishing. So, my colleagues, you are pushing an already open door. You are talking to people who are a few steps ahead and are doing what is supposed to be done. I want to thank you because the report emphasises that we are doing the right thing. I would like to thank the Chairperson and your Committee for showing us that we are doing the right thing. I also want to thank them for encouraging us to go along this trajectory.

Mr Speaker, let me conclude by saying something about the issue of proximity because this is an excuse for poaching or illegal fishing. Hon. Hamududu spoke very well. However, the enforcement of laws is important. You do not enforce laws necessarily by moving people from where they live. You have to make sure that the laws are enforced irrespective of where the people are. If a Lechwe happens to come where you are driving, you have no legal right to shoot it. Doing so is illegal. If a lechwe comes to your house and you have no licence to shoot it, you will commit an offence by shooting it. Therefore, to suggest that people who live in fishing camps must be moved away from there as a way of protecting the fish is the same as saying that we should move all the people from the banks of Lake Kariba. It also means that all the people who live on the banks of the Kariba must abandon their houses and move away from there because they are close to the fish and can, therefore, catch it. That is not the way to argue the case.

Mr Speaker, I am sure Hon. Hamududu was saying that because he realised that people were not really paying attention and wanted to create some drama to draw their attention.

Sir, I know Hon. Hamududu as a focused Member and very eloquent debater. I am sure the point he was driving home is that we ought to ensure that we enforce the laws without necessarily disturbing the settlements that people have established. Yes, some countries may require the people that Hon. Hamududu referred to, but the evidence is that Zambia has what it requires. Zambia does not require any other leader apart from Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I would like to end by thanking the mover, seconder and debater. I also join the mover in moving the Motion. The three debaters have convinced me and the Government beyond doubt that this report deserves to be adopted. Therefore, on behalf of the Government, I support the adoption of this report.

 I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, it is really amazing to listen to Hon. Lubinda debate lengthily. I also wish to thank the hon. Minister for the favourable response to your Committee’s report. I wish to thank Hon. Hamududu for the well-calculated debate on the report. Lastly, but not the least, I wish to thank all the hon. Members who have supported your Committee’s report.

 Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.

_____

BILLS

SECOND READINGS

THE INCOME TAX (Amendment) BILL, 2016

The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

 Mr Speaker, the Bill before the House is principally seeking to remove the Variable Profit Tax on income from mining operations.

Sir, the Variable Profit Tax was introduced in 2008 with the aim of capturing windfall profits in times of unexpected high increases in metal prices. It is chargeable over and above the 30 per cent Corporate Income Tax for mining operations from zero to 15 per cent rates, where the income from mining operations exceeds 8 per cent of other gross sale income.

 However, Mr Speaker, the Variable Profit Tax has not been equitable in the sense that it has placed a higher tax burden on companies that operate more efficiently. It is, therefore, appropriate to remove the Variable Profit Tax, but maintain the Corporate Income Tax at 30 per cent. It is envisaged that the Government will get more revenue in times of high copper prices from the sliding scale that is proposed to be applicable on mineral royalty.

Sir, the Bill is also intended to reduce the tax applicable on income from bus and taxi operations. The Government imposes a presumptive tax on income from buses and taxi operators. This tax is a simplified form of Income Tax which is based on specific rates, depending on the seating capacity of the bus or taxi. These rates are also fixed countrywide. The rates had remained unchanged for ten years, from 2004 when the tax was introduced until 2015, when they were increased. However, during the implementation of the increased tax rates, the transport operators complained, indicating that the increase did not take into consideration the fares applicable in the different regions since the tax rates were specific and not ad valorem and, therefore, impose higher tax for the low-income earning regions. In addition, there has been an increase in unregistered (pirate) taxi operators in the sector who do not pay tax, yet they are in direct competition with the registered (legal) operators.

Mr Speaker, the proposed amendment, therefore, seek to provide for operators to pay the old lower tax rates to allow for comprehensive consultations on how the application of this tax can be adjusted to take into consideration the current economic differences in which the operators work and, at the same time, address the informalities in the sector that provide for tax avoidance.

Sir, the amendments being proposed are straightforward and I commend the Bill to this hon. House.

 Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, in accordance with its terms of reference, as provided in the Standing Orders, your Committee was tasked to scrutinise the Income Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2016 for the Fifth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly.

Sir, the objects of the Bill, as has been stated by the hon. Minister of Finance, are to remove the Variable Profit Tax on income from mining operations and reduce the Presumptive Tax applicable on bus and taxi operators.

Mr Speaker, in examining the Bill’s content, your Committee invited several stakeholders, including the Ministry of Justice, Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA), Civil Society for Poverty Reduction, Zambia Institute of Chartered Accountants (ZICA), Bus and Taxis Owners Association, the National Economic Advisory Council and the Ministry of Finance.

Sir, most stakeholders noted that the Variable Profit Tax was introduced in 2008 to, among other things, increase the average effective tax rate for the mining operations which was lower than comparative in the region by 8 per cent points. They explained that it was envisaged that the introduction of the variable profit tax and windfall tax then, was to increase the effective tax rate to about 45 per cent so as to increase the contribution of the mining sector to the Treasury. They, however, expressed concern that the Variable Profit Tax had not been equitable in the case of Zambia, as this had placed a high tax burden on mining companies that operate more efficiently, hence affecting the sector. They, therefore, welcomed the move to remove it from the tax schedule.

Mr Speaker, stakeholders also noted that the removal of the variable profit tax entails the reduction in the financing of the 2016 Budget. They were of the view that to avoid frequent changes on tax policy in future, the Government must consult widely.

Sir, some stakeholders were of the view that the increase in presumptive tax rates by 100 per cent in the 2015 National Budget was excessive and grossly reduced the business profit margins of the already constrained bus and taxi operators. They also contended that the increase was not proportionately done because it did not take into consideration the fares applicable in different geographical regions with different demographic characteristics. This technically meant imposing a higher tax rate for the low-income earning regions.

Mr Speaker, in this regard, the stakeholders welcomed the move to reduce the Presumptive Tax rates by 50 per cent. Some were of the view that the Presumptive Tax should have been completely abolished for buses with thirty-six seats and below and taxis because this is a category which comprises operators at subsistence scale.

In conclusion, your Committee wishes to express its gratitude to you, Mr Speaker, for granting it the opportunity to scrutinise the Income Tax (Amendment) Bill for the Fifth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly. Your Committee also wishes to thank the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the support rendered to it throughout its deliberations. It is also indebted to all the stakeholders who appeared before it for their co-operation in providing the necessary briefs.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, let me express my unqualified gratitude to your Committee for the thorough work it did and for the support that has been rendered to my Motion.

Sir, it is quite clear that under the prevailing economic circumstances, Variable Tax has become unjustifiable and totally unsustainable. With regard to the Presumption Tax on buses and taxis, it is quite obvious that unjustifiably high levels of tax nearly induce a lack of compliance. Therefore, we have had to restructure the tax to reasonable proportions. The operators of buses and taxis are not operating on the margin. They do make some money and it is only fair that we ask them to contribute to the economic wellbeing of the country.

Mr Speaker, I thank the House for the unanimous support.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Friday, 29^th April, 2016.

THE MINES AND MINERALS DEVELOPMENT (Amendment) BILL, 2016

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Sir, the Bill before this House is basically seeking to reduce the mineral royalty applicable on all minerals to not more than 6 per cent and introduce a sliding-scale mineral royalty for copper which will range from 4 to 6 per cent.

Mr Speaker, particularly, the Bill sets the mineral royalty for copper at 4 per cent when prices of copper are below US$4,500 per tonne, 5 per cent when prices of copper are US$4,500 per tonne and above, but below US$6,000 per tonne, and 6 per cent when prices of copper are US$6,000 per tonne and above, for all base metals other than copper, at a mineral royalty rate of 5 per cent and precious metals and gemstones, at the rate of 6 per cent.

Sir, this House is aware that copper mining remains the mainstay of the Zambian economy, accounting for over 70 per cent of the country’s export earnings. The fall in copper prices, declining by over 30 per cent in 2015, and reaching a six-year low in January, 2016, has exerted a strain on economic activities surrounding the mining industry. Particularly, this precipitated the scaling down of some mining operations. The cutting down on labour in the mining industry is unsalutary for our economy. Consequently, revenue collections from mining and export earnings have fallen, resulting in pressure on the foreign reserves and the kwacha parity. Further, socio-economic conditions in the mining areas of the country have deteriorated and require urgent Government interventions.

Mr Speaker, to resolve this issue, the Government, working in consultation with the Zambia Chamber of Mines, has found it appropriate to adjust the tax regime for the mining sector to make it more responsive to changes in metal prices on the international market.

Sir, the proposed amendment to the mineral royalty regime is meant to ensure that there is an increase in the proportion of Government revenue collections in times of relatively high metal prices and, at the same time, provide relief to business in times of low prices. This is to be achieved through the sliding scale proposed for copper.

In addition, Mr Speaker, the proposed amendments take into consideration the fact that base metals other than copper similarly trade at different prices. Therefore, it would be complex to set specific sliding scales for each of such metals. Thus, it is necessary that a flat mineral royalty rate of 5 per cent be set for all minerals and metals apart from copper in order to maintain simplicity to the royalty regime.

Finally, Sir, the regime takes cognisance of the fact that generally, precious metals and gemstones such as gold and emeralds, respectively attract mineral royalty rates that are higher than those for base metals given their intrinsic value and the high risk of losing revenue through under-declarations and smuggling. Consequently, it is proposed to charge mineral royalty at a higher rate of 6 per cent for precious metals and gemstones.

Sir, the amendments being proposed are reasonable and straightforward and I commit the Bill to this august House.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity accorded to me to present the views of your Committee and stakeholders on the Mines and Minerals (Amendment) Bill, 2016.

Sir, your Committee considered various submissions on the Bill referred to it by the House on Wednesday, 13^th April, 2016.

The object of the Mines and Minerals Development (Amendment) Bill, 2016 is to amend the Mines and Minerals Development Act of 2015, as the hon. Minister of Finance has stated.

Mr Speaker, your Committee was informed that the decision to amend the Mines and Minerals Development Act of 2015 has been necessitated mainly by the need to sustain mining operations in the face of falling metal prices. The amendment is also expected to help remove the rigidity that posed challenges in the mining sector by making it more responsive to changes in metal prices on the international market, thereby guaranteeing the Government a level of revenue which is proportionate to changes in the copper prices.

Sir, your Committee is in support of the Bill and wishes to commend the Government for bringing it to the House. However, in supporting the Bill most stakeholders expressed concern with regard to the frequent changes to the mining tax regime. Your Committee observed that the mining tax regime has changed nine times since 2000 when the mining sector was fully liberalised.

Mr Speaker, the Committee wishes to state that the unpredictability of the tax regime in the mining sector has the potential to undermine business confidence, as it is a challenge to business planning for investors.

Mr Speaker, the pitfall in the current administration of the mining tax regime does not only affect investors, but also the Government in terms of revenue planning and ultimately execution of the Budget.

Sir, as a long-term measure, your Committee recommends that the Government endeavours to come up with a more stable tax framework for the mining sector. It also recommends that the tax regime be designed in a way that it can automatically adjust to the prevailing specific sector conditions without creating adverse effects on the mining operations, resulting in job losses and lower revenue for the Government in case of falling prices, as experienced by the country recently.

Mr Speaker, while your Committee appreciates the proposed graduated system for the mineral royalty for copper and the fixed rates for other metals and minerals, it is the hope of your Committee that these changes will address the immediate challenges faced by the mining companies as well as those faced by the Government with respect to revenue collection. However, there is still a need to make the administration of company income tax which relies on the net profit being more transparent and predictable.

To address this problem, your Committee wishes to entreaty the Government to take into account the recommendations submitted by the stakeholders to compel mining firms to bank the proceeds from metal sales in Zambia as opposed to having this done offshore.

Mr Speaker, your Committee notes that in times of a boom in the global economy, the price of copper on the international market can go up to almost US$9,000 per tonne or above, as history has shown us. However, the proposed upper band of the mineral royalty on copper of 6 per cent for prices above US$6,000 per tonne may aptly deny the Government the opportunity to benefit more in terms of tax revenue. Therefore, your Committee recommends a tax model that will also cater for higher prices that may go beyond the US$9,000 barrier to ensure that there is mutual benefit by the investors and the Government from increases in prices of copper.

In moving the Motion that the House supports the Bill, your Committee recommends that the wording of Section 89(2)(b) be amended, as suggested by the stakeholders, in order to enhance clarity.

Sir, as I conclude, I wish to express gratitude to you, for affording your Committee the opportunity to scrutinise the Bill. Your Committee is also grateful to all the stakeholders and the Ministry of Justice, as a permanent witness that appeared before it for its co-operation and input in the deliberations.

Lastly, I also extend your Committee’s appreciation to the Clerk of the National Assembly for the services rendered to it, not only during the consideration of the Bill, but also almost throughout the session.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would like to briefly add my thoughts to the issue being discussed on the Floor.

From the outset, I would like to mention that Zambia missed an opportunity, as we have heard from the mover of the Motion who mentioned that at a certain point, copper prices had hit a mark of US$9,000 per tonne. To that effect, there were calls from both inside and outside this House that we needed a windfall tax regime at that time. If I heard him correctly, the mover of the Motion referred to it even though he did not mention it by name, but I know that one of the options he had in mind when the copper prices hit high levels is the Windfall Tax.

So, if I have to be optimistic, I would hope that one day, if the copper prices will rise to high levels in a mixed-tax regime, we will also consider using the Windfall Tax or something else in that line.

However, I wish to mention that with the current depressed prices, it is high time we seriously thought about diversification as a country. At such a time, I would like to see a situation whereby many Zambian companies buy our own copper locally and process it here then export finished products if we are to get a better price and contribution towards our Treasury.

Mr Speaker, the same applies to gemstones and precious metals. Why should we export gemstones in their raw form, yet there is a vibrant processing market in places like India where ornaments are made?

Mr Speaker, I cannot recall what we were celebrating at the Showgrounds when the President passed through the various stalls and went to a stall that had beautiful gemstones which had been cut on display. Of course, that was just amethyst, but the exhibition could extend to precious metals such as emeralds and similar stones. Speaking of diamonds, I think that we should encourage more prospecting in minerals in our country because I have a feeling that our country is sitting on diamonds. That way, we shall have a wide regime of mining products which can bring a lot of revenue to the Treasury and, in turn, be more beneficial to our people. Those are my thoughts on this matter.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, once again, I wish to thank your Committee and give a solemn undertaking that the Government will seriously consider the proposals contained in the report.

Sir, Zambia needs to establish the image of a credible investment destination. This aspiration cannot be achieved unless the policies are anchored on predictability and consistency. Frequent policy somersaults are not the recipe for inducing confidence in a country as an investment destination. It is in this context that we have now come up with a sliding formula in the hope that it will stand the test of time so that we do not have to change. In the last one-and-a-half years, we have changed the mining taxation about three times. This is not good for the image of our country. It is also not something that induces stability in the mining sector. The royalty levels are quite adequate, and they are also in conformity with the royalty levels that prevail in the surrounding countries and other mining countries in the world.

Mr Speaker, in the event that copper prices reach unprecedented high levels, the Government will still realise reasonable levels of revenue because we have left the Corporate Tax at 30 per cent. That should take care of any drastic or unexpected improvements in the price levels of copper. This time, we made sure that we consulted the stakeholders, citizens, Zambia Chamber of Mines and the mining companies. I think that there will be very little disenchantment with the tax regime we have announced.

Once again, I wish to thank the House for the invaluable and unanimous support.

Sir, I beg to move.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Friday, 29^th April, 2016.

THE COURT OF APPEAL BILL, 2016.

The Minister of Justice (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Mr Speaker, following the enactment of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016, Article 130 established the Court of Appeal. This court is a novel creation in our judicial system. It is an appellate court whose main function is to hear appeals against decisions of the High Court. In the hierarchy of the Judiciary, the Court of Appeal will be superior to the High Court, but lower than the Supreme Court. The raison d'être or rationale for the creation of the Court of Appeal is to enhance speedy delivery of justice and reduce the workload of the Supreme Court.

Sir, the Court of Appeal will play the role of a clearing house for the Supreme Court. Specifically, the objects of the Bill are:

1. to provide for the jurisdiction and procedures of the Court of Appeal;

1. to hear appeals from the High Court and quasi-judicial bodies; and

1. to provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

Mr Speaker, the enactment of this Bill will, therefore, breathe life and operationalise the Court of Appeal. This is a straightforward Bill and I urge the House to support it.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Kalima (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, in accordance with its terms of reference, as provided in the Standing Orders, your Committee was tasked to scrutinise the Court of Appeal Bill, 2016.

Sir, in order to acquaint itself with the ramifications of the Bill, your Committee sought both written and oral submissions from stakeholders with whom your Committee had very informative interactions.

Mr Speaker, Article 130 of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016 establishes a Court of Appeal and provides that its composition be prescribed in an Act of Parliament. According to Section 21 of the Constitution, all Articles in the Constitution that require an Act of Parliament to be passed shall not take effect until the Act has been passed. In this regard, for Article 130 of the Constitution to come into effect, the Court of Appeal Bill has to be enacted.

Sir, the Court of Appeal is an appellant court to which people can appeal against decisions of the High Court and some tribunals. The rationale behind the establishment of the court is to enhance access to justice and reduce the workload of the Supreme Court. The Court of Appeal Bill, 2016, therefore, provides for jurisdiction and procedures of the Courts of Appeal.

Mr Speaker, the objects of the Bill are;

1. to provide for the jurisdiction and procedures of the Court of Appeal;

1. to hear appeals from the High Court and quasi-judicial bodies; and

1. provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

Sir, the Bill is progressive and all the stakeholders who submitted on the Bill fully supported its enactment. The stakeholders were of the view that the operationalisation of the Court of Appeal Bill will help reduce the workload of the Supreme Court, as it will act is a sieve of matters from the High Court and quasi-judicial bodies. This will help to enhance access to justice in Zambia.

Mr Speaker, it is my expectation that this Bill will be supported by the House, as it is not contentious. As I conclude, I wish, on behalf of your Committee, to express gratitude to you for granting us the opportunity to scrutinise the Court of Appeal Bill, 2016. Your Committee also wishes to thank the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the support rendered to it throughout its deliberations. It is indebted to all the witnesses who appeared before it for their co-operation in providing the necessary briefs.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, I wish to express my profound gratitude to the House for its unanimous support.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Thursday, 28^th April, 2016.

THE CONSTITUTION COURT BILL, 2016

Dr Simbyakula: Sir, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Mr Speaker, as this august House is aware, as a result of the enactment of the Constitution of Zambia Act Chapter 1 of the Laws of Zambia by the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016, Article 127 establishes the Constitutional Court.

Mr Speaker, the Constitutional Court is a new creation and another addition to our judicial system. It is a specialised court that will rank on a par with the Supreme Court. It will deal primarily with constitutional law. That is to say that the Constitutional Court will be primarily responsible for ruling on matters arising from the application and interpretation of the Constitution.

Mr Speaker, the Constitutional Court Bill, 2016 provides for the procedures and powers of the court and for matters connected with, or incidental, to the foregoing. The enactment of this Bill, therefore, will operationalise the Constitutional Court. I, therefore, urge the House to support the Bill.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, in accordance with its terms of reference, as provided in the Standing Orders, your Committee was tasked to scrutinise the Constitutional Court Bill, 2016. In order to acquaint itself with the ramifications of the Bill, your Committee sought both written and oral submissions from the stakeholders with whom it had informative interactions.

Mr Speaker, the Constitutional Court has been established by Article 127 of the Constitution, Chapter 1 of the Laws of Zambia, through the enactment of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016. The Constitutional Court is a new phenomenon in Zambia and is only responsible for determining matters arising from the application and interpretation of the Constitution. Further, the court is a unique organ of the Judiciary, whose decisions are not amenable to appeal.

Sir, the Constitutional Court Bill, 2016 provides for the constitution, procedures, functions and power of the Constitutional Court. Its enactment will result in the coming into force of Article 127 of the Constitution, which establishes the Constitutional Court.

Mr Speaker, the object of the Bill is to provide for the procedure of the Constitutional Court and prescribe the powers of the court. The Bill is progressive because the Constitutional Court is an important tool for enhancing democracy, the rule of law and constitutionalism.

Sir, all the stakeholders who submitted on the Bill fully supported the enactment of the Bill. The stakeholders were of the view that the Constitutional Court in Zambia will help to enhance access to justice in Zambia with regard to constitutional matters.

Mr Speaker, it is my expectation that this Bill will be supported by the House, as it is non-contentious. As I conclude, I wish, on behalf of your Committee, to express our gratitude to you for granting us the opportunity to scrutinise the Constitutional Court Bill, 2016. Your Committee also wishes to thank the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the support rendered to it throughout its deliberations. It is indebted to all the witnesses who appeared before it for their co-operation in providing the necessary briefs.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, as usual, I will be very brief and to the point. In supporting the Bill, I would like to urge the Executive to timely and adequately provide necessary resources for infrastructure and support human resource development for this court because not doing so will delay the dispensation of justice. As it has been stated, this court has been brought into the proposed Bill in order to streamline the justice system.

Mr Speaker, perhaps, we can learn lessons from the past where, in many cases, this House has approved the provision of human resources that have not been adequately provided for with the necessary infrastructure to operate as per requirements of the law.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, I wish to thank my good friend, the hon. Member for Mumbwa, for his contribution. He has made a pertinent observation. Court infrastructure is critical and this Government is doing everything possible to ensure that court infrastructure is provided for. We shall certainly attend to that.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Thursday, 28^th April, 2016.

THE SUPERIOR COURTS (NUMBER OF JUDGES) BILL, 2016

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Mr Speaker, prior to the enactment of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016, there were only two superior courts, namely the Supreme Court of Zambia and the High Court. A piece of legislation known as the Supreme Court and High Court (Number of Judges) Act Cap 26 of the Laws of Zambia was enacted in 1976 to prescribe the number of Judges for the Supreme Court and the High Court.

Sir, following the enactment of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016, two new additional superior courts, namely the Constitutional Court and the Court of Appeal have been established in accordance with Articles 127 and 130, respectively, thus bringing the total number of superior courts in Zambia to four.

Mr Speaker, this Bill, therefore, prescribes the number of Judges for the Supreme Court, the Constitutional Court, Court of Appeal and the High Court. It also repeals and replaces the Supreme Court and High Court (Number of Judges) Act and provides for matters connected with, or incidental, to the foregoing.

Mr Speaker, this Bill is innocuous and I urge all hon. Members to support it.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, in accordance with its terms of reference as provided in the Standing Orders, your Committee was tasked to scrutinise the Superior Courts (Number of Judges) Bill, 2016. In order to acquaint itself with the ramifications of the Bill, your Committee sought both written and oral submissions from the stakeholders with whom your Committee had informative interactions.

Mr Speaker, the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment), 2016 of the Laws of Zambia established additional courts in the Judiciary. Article 120 of the Constitution provides that the Judiciary shall consist of the Superior Courts, namely the Supreme Court, the Constitutional Court, the Court of Appeal and the High Court. In this regard, the Superior Courts (Number of Judges) Bill prescribes the number of Judges for the foretasted Superior Courts.

Sir, the Superior Courts (Number of Judges) Act brings into effect the provision of Part VIII of the Constitution with regard to the establishment, jurisdiction and composition of the Superior Courts. Your Committee is, however, concerned that the available court and office infrastructure is not sufficient to cater for the increase in the number of courts and Judges that have been created by the Constitution. It, therefore, implores the Executive to ensure that steps are urgently taken to address the issue of inadequate infrastructure in the Judiciary.

Mr Speaker, the proposed legislation is a progressive development for the speedy and effective dispensation of justice. It is my expectation that this Bill will be supported by the House, as it is non-contentious.

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, I wish, on behalf of your Committee, to express our gratitude to you for granting us the opportunity to scrutinise the Superior Courts (Number of Judges) Bill, 2016.

Your Committee also wishes to thank the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the support rendered to it throughout its deliberations. It is also indebted to all the witnesses that appeared before it for their co-operation in providing the necessary briefs

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you for the opportunity to say something about a subject whose technical details I know very little about, ...

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: ... but whose effects on the ground I am very familiar with.

Sir, I support the proposition by the hon. Minister but, in my brief remarks, I wish to tell him that this is only a tiny fraction of the job that he is supposed to be doing in the Judiciary. It is only 5 per cent. Why do I say so? The Superior Courts that you are talking about, in my layman’s understanding, are for the elite such as those of us sitting in this House. They are also for the rich people who, after getting bungled up by poor thieves, can appeal if the thieves are not jailed in the Magistrate’s Courts. These are courts for the affluent. We are taking care of ourselves and making ourselves comfortable by creating more courts and Judges.

Mr Speaker, conflict is not just restricted to the towns where we live or to the intellectuals fighting with the poor people. Issues of justice are out there in the countryside. In fact, if we take the population statistics, I can imagine that the disputes which are handled, not by the courts that the hon. Minister is talking about, but by some other forms of courts, maybe, in excess of 70 per cent in the rural areas. In rural areas, the conflicts are about people accusing each other of witchcraft.

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: They need resolution. They are about people accusing each other of encroachment and need resolution. They are also about accusations of people committing adultery with people’s husbands and wives and need resolution. There are many conflicts in the rural areas. However, the justice delivery system in rural areas is poor. This is why I am hoping that the hon. Minister or somebody else, at a later stage, will come back to this House and tell us what kind of measures are being taken to enhance infrastructure for courts and increase the number of personnel dealing with issues of conflict resolution.

Mr Speaker, in Liuwa Constituency, for example, which is roughly 80 km by 150 km, there are only three local courts. So, most of the time, when people offend each other, they find other ways of settling scores. They threaten each other with witchcraft or have to fight with knobkerries and some other things. Now, this is not what we are looking for.

Mr Pande: Kaliloze.

Dr Musokotwane: Or kaliloze in Kasempa, as Hon. Pande has said.

Mr Speaker: What is that?

Dr Musokotwane: Kaliloze is a type of gun.

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, my short message to the hon. Minister is that the job is not completely done because we have three courts in the whole of Liuwa. People have to walk 80 km or 30 km to go to the courts. When they reach their destination, there is no one there to serve them because there is only one court of justice and they have to walk back for another three days. You can imagine the frustrations that go through the minds of these people. So, either the hon. Minister or his successor should come back to this House to serve the interests of the majority of the people of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, I want to thank my good friend, the Member for Liuwa, Hon. Dr Musokotwane, whom I have known for more than forty years. His observation is pertinent. The justice delivery system in Zambia obviously requires constant attention. The court infrastructure requires upgrading. We need more courts, that is, local courts and subordinate courts. We also need to decentralise the High Court. We also need human resources such as local court magistrates and magistrates in subordinate courts. This Government is doing its utmost to improve the justice delivery system. That is why our great leader, the late President Michael Sata, appointed the Legal and Justice Sector Reforms Commission, which is currently going round the country receiving submissions from the Zambian people on how to improve this sector. So, what I can say is that our Government is doing its utmost to improve the justice delivery system. Only last week on Wednesday, I opened an office for the National Prosecution Authority (NPA) in Kasama because it is now decentralising its functions. In February, we opened an office in Solwezi and we shall soon open offices for the NPA in Mongu and Chipata. That goes to show that this Government is doing its utmost to improve ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Simbyakula: ... the justice delivery system.

Mr Speaker, last but not the least, I wish to thank the House for its unanimous support for this Bill.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Thursday, 28^th April, 2016.

HOUSE IN COMMITTEE

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

THE SERVICE COMMISSIONS BILL, 2016

Clauses 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42 and 43 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

__________

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bill was reported to the House as having passed through Committee without amendments:

The Service Commissions Bill, 2016

Third Reading on Thursday, 28^th April, 2016.

__________

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.  

__________

The House adjourned at 1843 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 28^th April, 2016.