Friday, 8^th July, 2022

The House met at 0900 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

______

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I rise to give the House an indication of the business it will consider next week.

Madam, on Tuesday, 12^th July, 2022, the Business of the House will begin with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will debate the Motions to adopt the reports of the following Committees:

       (a)   Committee on Agriculture, Lands and Natural Resources on the Audit Report on Government Measures to

              address the Impact of Climate Change on Food Security in Zambia: A  Focus on Main Crop; and

      (b)   Committee on National Economy, Trade and Labour Matters on the Performance Audit of the Government

              Interventions on Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises in Zambia, 2015 to 2020.

Madam Speaker, on Wednesday, 13^th July, 2022, the Business of the House will start with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will any. Thereafter, the House will consider A Private Member’s Motion, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will debate the Motions to adopt the reports of the Committees:

        (a)   Committee on Energy, Water Development and Tourism on the Performance Audit of Safe Sanitation

                Services in Urban and Peri-Urban Areas in Zambia, 2017 to 2020; and

        (b)   Committee on Youth, Sport and Child Matters on the Petition to Initiate the Repeal of the National Youth

               Development Council Act, Chapter 144 of the Laws of Zambia, 1986.

Madam, on Thursday, 14^th July, 2022, the Business of the House will begin with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will debate the Motions to adopt the reports of the following Committees:

       (a)   Committee on National Guidance and Gender Matters on the Performance Audit on the Management and

              Disposal of Gender-Based Violence (GBV) Cases in Zambia, 2017 to 2020; and

      (b)   Committee on Local Governance, Housing and Chiefs’ Affairs on the Performance Audit on Management

              of Electronic Waste in Zambia.

Madam Speaker, on Friday, 15^th July, 2022, the Business of the House will commence with the Vice-President’s Question Time. Thereafter, the House will consider Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then debate the Motion to adopt the Report of the Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services on the follow up on the Performance Audit Report on the Distribution of Medicines and Medical Supplies by the Ministry of Health in Zambia.

I thank you, Madam.

______

THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, Zambians are concerned about the manner in which the President has started awarding contracts to his friends using the single-sourcing mode of procurement, a practice he has previously condemned, labelling it ‘corruption’ or ‘abuse of office’. Further, the President of this country promised to govern with transparency and accountability. 

Madam Speaker, a case in point is the recent engagement of Grant Thornton, a company in which the President has interests, and five other firms to audit domestic debt, an assignment that the Office of the Auditor-General could have easily undertaken. This is in addition to the earlier award to his friend of a contract to supply fertiliser worth US$50 million. Further, there is the secondment of Klynveld Peat Marwick Goerdeler (KPMG) Zambia and Mr Kazilimani, also his friend, as agents of Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) Plc. Finally, there is a US$100 million contract to construct health facilities in three provinces, namely the Western Province, the North-Western Province and the Southern Province, under the Ministry of Health whose procurement was shrouded in secrecy.

Madam Speaker, with all these questionable dealings in which the President is awarding contracts to his friends, is the Government still committed to the fight against corruption, whether past, present or future?

Madam Speaker: That is a very loaded question with many aspects. I do not know whether Her Honour the Vice-President got the gist of it. If she has, then, she can attempt to answer. However, to address all those issues might take us some time.

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for that guidance. I will attempt to answer the questions, and I thank you for that guidance because it is not easy for me to remember all the things he piled up in his question.

Mr Mundubile: There are many activities.

The Vice-President: I think, it is important to ask the questions one by one if you have many issues. When you load all of them in one question and speak so fast, I cannot remember with which of them you are more concerned. However, the part that brings out the question is very clear: it is about whether we are committed to fighting corruption, and the answer is that there is 101 per cent commitment.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: That is why I am saying it would be good to look at these issues case by case, if the hon. Member wants to have answers. Right now, it is difficult for me to follow exactly what these issues are.

Madam Speaker, whatever we are doing, will be done –

Madam Speaker, I heard the hon. Member talk of secrecy, but I do not know what that is. However, to bring the President in this matter today is extremely unfair. The President is a friend of all Zambians. So, to start picking on some Zambians as being his friends and, therefore, try to exclude them from work is very difficult. What is important is to see that a transparent process is followed by everybody. Besides, some of the contracts he has mentioned began some time ago.

For example, the medical facilities contract he referred to worth US$100 million or something like that has even been cancelled, my dear, oh sorry, hon. Member.

Mr Mundubile: No, it is alright, Madam.

Laughter

The Vice-President: I am so sorry.

Madam Speaker, that contract has been cancelled. The hon. Member should know that he can bring a case at a time and we will explain it to him. He can also go to the ministries and those who give contracts for proof of the right procedures, policies and laws of our country having been followed. So, there is nothing like deviating the fight against corruption. People who are found corrupt will be convicted. That is all. Whether they are from here (indicating the right) or there (indicating the left), the law will follow them. After all, my book says that your sin shall find you out. One can run, but one cannot hide and, if one is innocent, one should feel innocent. If one is innocent, no matter how much one is followed, one will prove oneself innocent. So, we are here to fight corruption and provide an environment that will attract both local and foreign investment, because that institution can do it well. No one needs to pay anybody, and that is why we want the regulatory bodies to work properly.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Madam Speaker, Kalomo was the first Capital City of Southern Rhodesia and –

Interruptions

Hon. Members: Northern Rhodesia.

Mr Sing’ombe: Northern Rhodesia. Thank you so much.

Madam Speaker, the previous Governments have not considered upgrading the district to a municipality. What polices guide the Government in upgrading districts to municipalities or municipalities to cities? We want Kalomo to be upgraded, since it has been left out by previous Governments. Is the New Dawn Government not considering upgrading Kalomo District to a municipality?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member from Kalomo for that concern.

Madam Speaker, I know that this time, there is no limit to what people can ask for. However, one thing I am aware of is that there are guidelines or conditions that districts or local authorities should satisfy for them to be upgraded, but I cannot mention them right now. The regulations are under the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development. For districts to become municipalities or cities, they have to meet certain conditions that will show that they have attained such a status. If the hon. Member really wants answers, I am sure, the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development can provide them to him. Right now, there is nothing in my head.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, indeed, we know that no one is above the law and that we are all equal under the law.

Madam Speaker, last week, the nation was treated to some kind of drama by one of the investigative wings, the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC), to be specific, which informed the nation that a person going by the name of Esther Nyawa Tembo was linked to property the commission had seized, and that the person in question had vanished. Allegedly, DEC did not know where that person was.

Madam Speaker, the nation knows that if we say ‘Mutale Witika’, before we put the other name, it will be clear that we are referring to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Shiwang’andu!

Mr Kampyongo: They will know –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, please, let us not debate fellow hon. Members of the House or give examples of them.

Mr Kampyongo: Thank you, Madam Speaker. All I am trying to say is that public figures, especially our mothers who acquired names from marriages, can still be identified.

Madam Speaker, the case I am talking about involves a very well-known name, Esther Nyawa Tembo and, before we add the name acquired through marriage, –

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: If you did not know, just shut up.

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, Her Honour the Vice-President is seated next to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, who will say that these matters are under investigation. That is true, but they are of public interest.

Madam Speaker, what would the Vice-President say about this kind of insincerity on the part of her Government’s investigative wings, which are saying that they do not know the person in question when the whole nation knows that Esther Nyawa Tembo is Mrs Lungu, the Former First Lady? Who is going to have confidence –

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: This question is for Her Honour the Vice-President. I do not know how many people are going to speak before she can answer. 

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Let us allow the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu to ask the question and then Her Honour the Vice-President to answer.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, they say caonamzako capita, maŵachilipaliiwe. In our language, it is said that icilingo ulingilako umunobe eco bakakulingilako, which means that the same standard you use to measure others will be used to measure you.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Shiwang’andu!

To avoid all these comments, just go straight to your question.  

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, is this the way the Government intends to treat the Former First Family? Is it one way of trying to get to the Former President indirectly, looking at the insincerity with which the investigative wings are conducting themselves, which is creating a lack of public confidence in them? I ask for Her Honour the Vice-President’s opinion on this very serious matter.

Madam Speaker: Oh, so, now, it is an opinion? May Her Honour give an opinion on the matter.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member was asking with a lot of passion in his voice. I hope that the heart is just as passionate.

Madam Speaker, there is no malice in what is going on. The fact is that a name is a name in our country. Even though I do not know a person in our country with exactly the same names as the hon. Member, it is very possible that there is such a person.

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Hon. PF Members: No!

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I think, it will be very dangerous for people to just hear a name mentioned and go to tell someone, ‘I have heard your name. So, you are the one who should answer.’

Hon. Members, let us be sincere with ourselves in this House. A name, by itself, does not identify a specific individual because, in our country, we share names.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: This is the truth.

Madam Speaker, now that our colleagues know, they should start dealing with the matter. They do not have to – If they said that individual vanished, I am not aware. However, there is nothing like vanishing. Nobody can vanish. If one is in the country, he or she will be found.

Madam Speaker, for our colleagues to say what they are saying, they must know the person who is the rightful owner of the property, not of the name, because there are other people who bear the same name. So, let us not say that it is an intention to reach someone. Nobody is targeting anybody, at least, not by intention.

Hon. PF Members: No! Question!

The Vice-President: Oh, yes! That is true.

Madam Speaker, nobody is targeting anybody, and nobody will come, create some case and, for example, say, ‘Chilangwa, you are the one’. You will prove yourself –

Mr Chilangwa rose.

Laughter

Hon. UPND Members: Sit down!

Rev. Katuta: Imbila ya mushita bayasukila!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, this is the truth of the matter. Let us relax, as a nation. This Government means well.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Are we listening to the answer?

The Vice-President: I do not want to start talking too much. I think, I need to have a private meeting with this one (pointing at Mr Kampyongo).

Laughter

The Vice-President: What is happening in the country –

Whom do our colleagues want to be followed? Is it me? I have nothing.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Listen, I am not carrying any animal on my shoulder for anything. So, let people clean themselves by explaining. Now that our colleagues know, I am sure, they are having interactions to clear issues, and there is nothing wrong with that. When people are followed, they should just go and explain and, if there is no issue, there will be no issue. We cannot stop people from talking about certain names just because they are borne by certain individuals we know because, then, we will not move.

Madam Speaker, when a person is cleared, he or she feels lighter, unlike when he or she goes into hiding, trying to imagine that people are following him or her. So, we should let the cases be dealt with properly.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

The Vice-President: A name does not really refer to a particular individual living at a particular place.

Ms Lungu: Question!

The Vice-President: You can question ask as much as you want, but there is no malice in what is happening, and a name is just a name.

Madam Speaker, now that we know, investigative wings should not continue to pretend that they do not know, if they are pretending; they will follow the person who has responded. That is the way it is. No one is above the law, as the hon. Member said. I am not above the law and you are not above the law (pointing at hon. PF Members). So, all of us are under the law.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Speaker, the people of Lundazi are still waiting for the 9,064 bags of fertiliser that were not delivered last season, and it is sad that people cultivated, planted and waited for the fertiliser to be delivered but, until this time, the Government has failed to deliver the balance of 9,064 bags of fertiliser. So, the people of Lundazi are still asking what the Government is going to do about the balance.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for asking that question on the delivery or failure to deliver fertiliser, although I have been reminded that the hon. Minister issued a ministerial statement on this matter.

Madam Speaker, it is tedious to keep talking about the same things. That is why a record is kept here.

Madam Speaker, we have also said that there were challenges in the delivery of fertiliser in the last season because some entities that were given contracts and paid to deliver failed to do so. The Government has the responsibility to ensure that is done. So, it is going to look at that issue. By the way, even if that fertiliser were delivered, it would have been late. So, the company has not delivered, but the Government takes the responsibility and, I think, in the ministerial statement, there was a commitment that the issue would be looked at this year.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lusambo (Kabushi): Madam Speaker, we were not satisfied with Her Honour the Vice-President’s response to the question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu.

Madam Speaker, the investigative wings in this country investigate matters and, before announcing to the public that some property belongs to a certain individual, they know who the individual is. Further, this is not the first time the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC) and the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) have behaved the way they behaved when dealing with the First Family. If Her Honour the Vice-President can recall very well, –

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security is aware of this, and he is a very capable Minister because he is presiding over a ministry that is very sensitive, and the investigative wings fall under his ministry.

Hon. UPND Members: What is your question?

Mr Lusambo: Madam Speaker, I do not know if I am –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Let us allow the hon. Member for Kabushi to ask the question.

Hon. Member for Kabushi, please do not debate. Go straight to your question.

Mr Lusambo: Madam Speaker, I am not debating. The issue at hand is a very sensitive one, and it can divide this country.

Hon. UPND Members: No!

Mr Lusambo: Madam Speaker, I do not know if I am protected here. There is no criminal until the courts –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Kabushi!

I have guided that as you ask your question, do not debate or bring in issues that are going to attract reactions from hon. Members. Go straight to your question, please.

Mr Lusambo: Madam Speaker, thank you. We have many greenhorns that side who do not understand this issue.

Hon. Member: What is the meaning of that?

Mr Lusambo: Madam Speaker, are the investigative wings that we are talking about, DEC and the ACC, competent to investigate matters in this country? I ask this because most of the time, we see them to be advertising agencies; they go out there with cameras just to make the country excited but, at the end of the day, we do not see any fruits from what they are doing. Are Her Honour the Vice-President’s men and women in the investigative wings competent?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for his concern on how the investigative wings are doing things. The hon. Member has said that things are coming to the public prematurely, if I can put it that way.

Madam Speaker, the President has said that things must be done correctly, but it is difficult for me, who does not know the actual procedure, to say that one way of doing things is wrong or right. Suffice it for me to say that the investigative wings have the right to investigate. If people have concerns, I will take note of them as concerns coming from this House. The hon. Member wants investigations to be carried out and some kind of evidence gathered before cases are brought out to the public. I think, that is what has been brought out, and I have taken note of it.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Madam Speaker, sometime back, Her Honour the Vice-President informed the House that the Official Residence of His Excellency the President, Nkwazi House, was undergoing renovations, and sections of society, especially in Bwacha Parliamentary Constituency, have sent me to ask her how far the Government has gone with renovations of Nkwazi House and when His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, is likely to shift to his Official Residence instead of continuing to stay at the ‘Community House’.

Hon. Member: Private house!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member has not greeted me.

Good morning, hon. Member for Bwacha.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, on the concern about the President shifting to Nkwazi House and the house being under renovation, I do not think that I have an answer. What I said is the truth, and that is that there is a need to work on the House before the President can move into it. Even my colleagues know that. Unfortunately, I cannot give a timeline here.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving the voice of Chienge the opportunity to be heard this morning.

Madam Speaker, the Kashikishi/Lunchinda Road is a death trap for the people of Kaputa, Chienge, Nsama and Nchelenge, and we started talking about the road because we saw that it is an economic road on which there is a heavy flow of big trucks going to the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). After making some enquiries, I discovered that the DRC Government and trucking companies have been paying money to the Zambian Government for using the road. How much has the DRC and companies that ferry copper using that road been paying to the Zambian Government? I ask this question because the road is now far from being called a road; it is just like a path now.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chienge for bringing out that issue, although I have learnt that she actually engaged the hon. Minister on the same.

Madam Speaker, what the hon. Member has said, that the people who ferry copper pay money to the Government, is not true because there is nothing like that. However, due to the heavy traffic on the road, which increases daily, the Government is looking at the possibility of putting up a public-private partnership (PPP) on it, and there are people who have shown interest in that. I agree that the road is a very important, and the hon. Member can see its importance increasing everyday because of what is happening there. So, it is my hope that the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development is looking at that road.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simbao (Luanshya): Madam Speaker, I bring greetings to Her Honour the Vice-President from the people of Luanshya Constituency. The people of Luanshya Constituency also asked me to remind Her Honour the Vice-President that before and after the elections, she and His Excellency the President have had no chance to visit them and they are waiting for them. They also said that nonetheless, they still love the Vice-President and the President very much. I want to stress that they told me to tell the two that they love them and the party very much. That said, they are also saying that in 2015, under the Copperbelt 400 km (C400), a project that was meant to tar roads on the Copperbelt, Luanshya was allocated 65 km. At the end of the project, a number of roads on in other towns of the Copperbelt had been tarred, but not a kilometre of the 65 km was tarred in Luanshya. In 2017, in a similar project called Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) Lot 1, Luanshya Constituency was allocated 15 km but, in the same way, not a kilometre was worked on. Further, in Lot 2 of AVIC, in which Luanshya Constituency –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Please, ask your question. We are running out of time.

Mr Simbao: Well guided, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker, the people of Luanshya are asking the New Dawn Government whether it is the one Government they have been waiting for to serve them from the bad roads found in their constituency.

Madam Speaker, in Luanshya, you cannot differentiate a maize field from a road. So, the people of Luanshya are asking whether the restoration of the roads has come with the New dawn Government, having seen AVIC start mobilising in Chililabombwe while in Luanshya, there is literally no sign of it.

Madam Speaker, John the Baptist sent his disciples to ask Jesus whether he was the Messiah or they were to wait for another. Similarly, the people of Luanshya are asking the New Dawn Government whether it as the Messiah or they should wait for another Government.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I fully appreciate the love expressed by the people of Luanshya.

Madam Speaker, all I can say is that the New Dawn is the Government Luanshya has been waiting for. Truly, it is, and it will respond to that concern because it looks at Luanshya as part of Zambia. So, it is going to work on that problem. In fact, I am told that the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriageway includes the main road into Luanshya. So, the people there can be assured that the roads will be worked on as soon as resources are available. We are working to grow the economy.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Thank you very much, kind Madam Speaker, for permitting the good people of Lumezi to ask Her Honour the Vice-President a question.

Good morning, Your Honour the Vice-President from the good people of Lumezi.

Madam Speaker, on 21^st April, 2022, the people of Lumezi woke up to the news that the investigative wings had entered Chief Mwase Mphangwe’s area to exhume the remains of one of its residents, Mr Suzyo Nyika, who passed on earlier this year. The people of Lumezi ask every day what the outcome of the exhumation of Mr Nyika’s remains is, as that had never happened previously in that area.

The Vice-President conversed with Mr Mwiimbu.

Interruptions

Mr Mundubile: Mwiimbu, lekefyo.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: I will give two additional minutes to this session because we have lost time.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, it is important to consult.

Madam Speaker, we receive the greetings from the good people of Lumezi.

Madam Speaker, yes, a body was exhumed, and the investigative wings that the hon. Member referred to are still carrying out investigations. When the report is ready, it will be disseminated.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, in 2016, Article 232 of the Constitution of Zambia was amended to create what is called the Emoluments Commission. Further, I am aware that under Article 264, the emoluments of State officers, constitutional office bearers, Councillors and Judges will be determined by the commission. I am also aware that an Act of Parliament was passed recently to operationalise the commission. My question relates to the men and women who are elected at the same time as Members of Parliament and the Republican President, our civic leaders, the Councillors and Mayors. I want to know from Her Honour the Vice-President whether it is the intention of this Government to introduce a gratuity for them for the work that they do as elected representatives?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kamfinsa for asking that question.

Madam Speaker, yes, we passed the Emoluments Commission Act here and, I think, the affected people were stipulated. However, I cannot stand here, alone, and say that we are introducing what the hon. Member has asked. I think, as people were taking those positions, they knew the exact conditions under which they would operate. So, if anything will be done, it will be later. Right now, I do not think I can declare that the concerned people will be given a gratuity or any other condition of service. The Emoluments Act stipulates who is catered for.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, President Hakainde Hichilema, on 12^th October, 2021, appointed Mr Patrick Kangwa as Acting Secretary to the Cabinet following the dismissal of Dr Simon Miti, may his soul rest in peace.

Hon. Members: Ah!

Laughter

Mr Mtayachalo: Oh, sorry.

Hon. Members: Hon. Member, get your facts right.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Proceed, hon. Member, but make sure that you are presenting facts to the House.

Mr Mtayachalo: Sorry, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, President Hakainde Hichilema appointed Mr Patrick Kangwa as Acting Secretary to the Cabinet on 12^th October, 2021, and, for nine months, Mr Kangwa has not been confirmed which, in my view, is a violation of the labour laws, ...

Hon. Government members: Ah!

Mr Mtayachalo: … specifically Cap. 268 of the Laws of Zambia. I want to know from Her Honour the Vice-President whether the Government is still looking for a suitable Secretary to the Cabinet or whether having been in an acting capacity for more than six months, Mr Kangwa is deemed to have been confirmed.

Mr Mutelo: And what about Simon?

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, even though the hon. Member has declared his relative dead, I would like to inform the august House that Dr Simon Miti is alive.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I really cannot tell whether the Act the hon. Member is referring to applies to Secretary to the Cabinet. Therefore, I cannot answer whether Mr Kangwa’s serving in an acting capacity for nine months is a breach of the Act. I need to go back and find out. As to whether we are looking for somebody else, every position, except mine – the hon. Ministers seated here continue to serve only if the appointing authority feels they need to. If he feels he needs to bring somebody else, he can do that. However, the appointees should not think about whether they will be removed or not every day.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Jamba (Mwembezhi): Madam Speaker, we found the inflation rate around 23 per cent or 24 per cent. We could not even imagine it then, but I now hear from the technocrats that the rate has fallen to a single digit.

Rev. Katuta: But the cost of living is high.

Mr Jamba: The people are talking about the cost of living and inflation.

Interruptions

Mr Jamba: Mwafuma kwisa imwe?

May Her Honour the Vice-President, please, explain the relationship between inflation and whatever.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Member: Brought in dead.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

I am not even sure whether Her Honour the Vice-President heard the last part of the question because there was too much noise.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the question asked by the hon. Member.

Madam Speaker, this question is not being asked for the first time. I think, it keeps being asked in one way or another in the last few weeks. So, I am very prepared to answer the hon. Member.

Madam Speaker, I think, there is a lot of misinformation. We create perceptions right here. Last week, I was asked why the cost of living was high when inflation was going down and whether that was real.

The inflation rate going down, hon. Members, is very real.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: It is in single digits. The cost of living is also going down.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, when my colleagues ask me questions, I do not go to sleep; I look for answers. This is from the Jesuit Centre for Theological Reflection (JCTR) (raising a document), a credible institution. I think, we all agree with that.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: It is important to continue following. I am holding these papers because they are for different months. Colleagues, hon. Members, I will share with you some figures. As those who work with figures say, numbers do not lie.

Hon. UPND Member: It is the Patriotic Front (PF) that lied.

The Vice-President: So, today, if I give you these figures and say that in January, the food basket – We have talked about the fuel issue. The price of fuel basically pushes the cost of living.

Mr Mundubile: Yes!

The Vice-President: That is true, but that is just one commodity. If you look at the effect – I want all of us to go and search what the JCTR says on what is happening.

Madam Speaker, let me give the figures of what is happening.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, in January, the food basket – The hon. Member talked about the cost of living.  Yes, this is the relationship. Since inflation has gone down, the cost of living is also going down.

Rev. Katuta: Where?

The Vice-President: I have figures here, and I will read as quickly as I can.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Listen, then you can judge me.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members who are debating while seated, you were given an opportunity to ask questions. Can you allow Her Honour the Vice-President to answer the questions. Let us not interject.

Your Honour the Vice-President, please, continue.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, in fact, all of us will agree a fall in inflation does not correlate with the cost of living 100 per cent. What it means is that the increase is slower. Let me prove this by giving figures from the JCTR. In January, the food basket was at K9,049.25. That means that there was an increase of 689.45on the figure for December. From January to February, the increase went down by K256.00.

Mr Mubanga: From 600!

The Vice-President: Yes! From K689.45, it reduced to K256.00. In February, it reduced to K106.00. I hope, we are getting the picture.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: I am not giving the details because of time. However, from March to April, the food basket decreased to K9,411.50 and, in April, to K9,326.00, which was a reduction by K85.00. From April to May, the cost of living reduced from K9,326.00 to K9,293.00. That is a drop by K33.00. So, it is not right to create the perception here that the cost of living is going up because the data and evidence-driven conclusion is that the cost of living is going down despite the increase in fuel prices.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Unless people want to argue with the figures, they should accept that the situation is as I have stated.

Madam Speaker, we are a very important House. So, we should not take part in spreading falsehoods.

Madam Speaker, this Government is determined to lower the cost of living for the people.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I will lay these documents on the Table so that people can refer to them. That way, this question will be put to rest. Otherwise, I appreciate the hon. Member.

I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

The Vice-President laid the document on the Table.

Madam Speaker: Order! Let us make progress.

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, the Vice-President is in charge of disaster management.

Mr Jamba interjected.

Mr B. Mpundu: Iwe ichongo, Jamba.

Madam Speaker, the Vice-President is in charge of –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, let us observe some order.

Hon. Member for Chienge, I have been observing you. You were given an opportunity to ask a question, but you are still debating while seated. That is not good, and I do not expect it from you.

May the hon. Member for Nkana proceed. 

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, the Vice-President is in charge of disaster management, in which the most important component is disaster prevention.

Madam Speaker, I brought an issue in this House two weeks ago about a disaster that there almost occurred when trucks were stuck at Chibuluma Road Rail Crossing and a passing train was only prevented from hitting into them by the alertness of Mopani Copper Mines. Further, on Saturday, last week, a train hit into a truck that was crossing. Of course, the argument was that the truck driver was careless. However, should we react when a disaster happens on Chibuluma Road or should we look at measures to prevent a would-be disaster now, which is the responsibility of the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) under the Office of the Vice-President? Is it not prudent that we look for resources before a disaster occurs on that road?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, indeed, the Office of the Vice-President is in charge of preventing disasters. However, what the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) is doing everywhere is looking at preparedness and resilience. A problem that is anticipated is not a disaster; a disaster is an occurrence that one did not expect.

Madam Speaker, I am actually well-informed that the road in question has already caught the attention of the ministry and that the ministry is working to ensure that there is no disaster there. We do not plan for disasters. If we know about ones that are likely to occur, we prevent them. That is what the ministry is working on.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

CONSTRUCTION OF BANGWEULU HOSPITAL IN LUPOSOSHI

355. Mr Chewe (Lubansenshi) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

       (a)    when the construction of Bangweulu Hospital in Lupososhi District will be completed;

       (b)    what the cause of the delay in completing the project is;

       (c)    what the cost of the outstanding works is; and

       (d)    what the estimated time frame for the completion of the outstanding works is.

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me to raise a point of order on the Leader of the Opposition, Hon. Mundubile.

Madam Speaker, I am aware that when we are considering the Vice-President’s Question Time, we are not allowed to raise points of order. It is also a rule that one has to raise a point of order contemporaneously, but I could not do that because of the aforesaid issue that was obtaining.

I rise on a point of order, Madam Speaker, pursuant to Articles 65, 68 and 71 of our Standing Orders. In his question to Her Honour the Vice-President, the Leader of the Opposition made various imputations on the character and conduct of the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema. He alleged that the President of the Republic of Zambia has given contracts to his friends. The veracity of the statement which the Hon. Leader of the Opposition made on the Floor of this House leads to the issue which I am going to raise. If, during their reign, his President then, was giving contracts to his friends, when in actual fact –

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: No. Hold – 

Madam Speaker: Order, order!

Let us listen and hear where the question is going.

Mr Mwiimbu: Listen! Madam Speaker, if the Hon. Mundubile thinks that it is the President who awards contracts and not the Government, it is different under the United Party for National Development (UPND).

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: Has the hon. Member got evidence which he can lay on the Floor of this House to show that the President of the Republic of Zambia personally, signed contracts with his friends, as he had alleged?

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, is he in order to commit contempt of this House by making such insinuations and comments, ...

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: ... pursuant to the provisions in the Standing Orders that I mentioned earlier?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order!

In view of the content of the question that was asked by the Hon. Leader of the Opposition and the point of order that has been raised by Hon. Mwiimbu, both of them have raised many issues. I will therefore, reserve my ruling so that I first look at the question and then, the point of order for me to come up with a reasoned ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, the construction of Bangweulu Hospital in Lupososhi District will be completed once funds are secured. The delay in the completion of the project is due to the reduction in fiscal space and also, the prioritisation of projects that were 80 per cent and above complete before considering projects that were below 80 per cent. The estimated cost of completing the outstanding works is K90,630,754.80. The cost is, however, expected to rise due to other costs that are as a result of demobilisation by the contractor. The timeframe for the completion of the outstanding works is three years.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, that hospital is meant to cater for wider catchments in terms of regions that surround Luwingu District. When the contract was procured, a loan was granted for the project to be executed. If the hon. Minister says that the challenge is fiscal space, what then happened to the previous arrangement which was secured by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu for the interest he continues to show in these matters.

Madam Speaker, I do not know whether he has got his facts right, but I will give a few more details. For this project, the contractor is Sun Share Construction Ltd. The project contract sum was K154,174,340. The certified total amount for the works done is K63,543,585.20, of which,  K38,543,585.20 is paid to the contractor, leaving a balance for certified works of K25 million. So far, 20 per cent of the works have been done. .

Madam Speaker, let me come to the key issue regarding the centrality and importance of this hospital to neighbouring regions as stated by Hon. Kampyongo. The New Dawn Government understands that very well. However, the House needs to know that the contractor demobilised in April, 2020, and this was during the time when the hon. Member was on this side (indicating right) of the House.

Madam Speaker, the lack of fiscal space that I talked about did not start just now. It started in the previous Administration. So, when the hon. Member talks about loan amounts and so on, he needs to get his facts right.

Madam, the project had an initial period of four years but only work for less than a year was done. The previous Administration was unable to proceed with this particular project. In the New Dawn Administration, as soon as we secure funds, that will be one of the projects we will continue with.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chewe: Madam Speaker, the good people of Lupososhi and Luwingu districts are concerned that only 20 per cent of the works have been done. This means that 80 per cent of the works are yet to be done. The hon. Minister also mentioned that this project is going to be completed in three years time. Does the Ministry have money to finish this project in the 2022 Budget?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the timeframe for the completion of outstanding works is three years and this is what was envisaged during the award of the contract. Normally, how much the contract is worth and the estimated time for completion are determined by the client and the contractor. The estimated time then, was four years. I mentioned that it took us one year to have the 20 per cent of works done.

Madam Speaker, lack of fiscal space is affecting not only this project but a number of them right throughout the county. Without exception, almost all hon. Members of Parliament have projects that have stalled in their constituencies. The key issue for this New Dawn Government is to undertake work which in our view, will result in the creation of the fiscal space so that projects such as this can continue. As the Government, we will make sure that no project is cancelled. The Government needs to create fiscal space so that it can continue with projects.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chewe: Madam Speaker, in the 2022 Budget, there are projects that this Government wants to implement. Prior to the 12^th August, 2021, General Elections, the Government promised that it would focus on completing the works that were 80 per cent complete.

Madam Speaker, is the Government able to consider the construction of Bangweulu Hospital before it commences new projects?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the Government will look at the country as a whole. There are certain places where projects started but stalled at certain percentages, say below 80 per cent. There are also other places where projects did not start at all, yet we are in the some country. So, we will look at the country as a whole but in the main, what is important is that projects started. Whether 20 per cent was spent or even less, that was still Zambian money which was spent, and those projects were meant to service Zambians, wherever they were in this country.

Madam Speaker, at the moment, the Government is focusing on creating this fiscal space. The hon. Member has talked about the Budget for 2022. Yes, we know what the Budget is and the constraints that are within that Budget. The K98.9 billion that was envisaged to be raised locally is barely sufficient to cover two line items in the Yellow Book. All hon. Members of Parliament know that. That is the tightness of this fiscal space. That is why the discussions with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) are so critical because when that space is created, then projects like this one and also, those that were started in other areas will then be considered so that we progress as a nation.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

MECHANISMS TO MONITOR THE NUMBER OF JOBS CREATED BY SMEs

356. Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East) asked the Minister of Labour and Social Security:

        (a)   whether there are any mechanisms to monitor, statistically, the number of jobs created by SMEs; and

        (b)  if so, what the mechanisms are.

The Minister of Labour and Social Security (Ms Tambatamba): Madam Speaker, currently there are no specific mechanisms which are tailor-made to monitor statistically the number of jobs created by Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs). However, the ministry conducts labour force surveys to monitor various perimeters of economy. Labour force surveys are conducted in collaboration with the Zambia Statistics Agency (ZamStats).

Madam Speaker, the labour force survey is a household-based survey conducted on a quarterly basis but the reports are complied annually.  The main objective of the labour force survey is to collect data on social economic activities of the population, including detailed information on employment, unemployment, underemployment, wages, informal sector, including the general characteristics of the labour forces and economically inactive populations. The survey is designed to measure and monitor key performance indicators of the labour market such as employment and unemployment levels, income and child labour in Zambia.

Madam Speaker, going forward, the Labour and Social Security, in conjunction with ZamStats and the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development, will introduce labour force tracking modules to capture data pertaining to micro, medium and small enterprises to be monitored through quarterly labour forces surveys.

Madam Speaker, to further strengthen information gathering and monitoring of SMEs on the labour market, the ministry is collaboration with Smart Zambia in developing a labour market information system. This information system is web-based and will bring on board all sectors of the economy to assist in monitoring various key performance indicators of the labour market including the number of jobs created.

Madam Speaker, this system will obviously help to monitor various aspects pertaining to the performance of the SMEs on the labour market.

Madam Speaker, as indicated, there are plans to monitor characteristics of the labour market including jobs pertaining to the SMEs but customised tracking systems are in the process of being developed.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Labour and Natural Resources has given seemingly good response to the question. However, I thought it is important to have these mechanisms put in place as soon as possible alongside the enhancement of SMEs. Just like it is in the other sectors, when one knows the labour force, they will be able to project how much revenue is being collected through pay as you earn (PAYE).

Madam Speaker, in this aspect, we may not be able to know if such mechanisms are not put in place. When we say that these mechanisms will be put in place, how soon will that be so that we are able to know if the SMEs will yield the intended goals for this nation.  

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, I would like to appreciate the follow-up question from the hon. Member for Solwezi West. Indeed, I agree with him and it is unfortunate that –

Madam Speaker: It is Solwezi East, hon. Minister.

Ms Tambatamba: Sorry, Solwezi East. My apologies, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I do appreciate his concern, especially that we are in a dispensation where the New Dawn Government is aggressively pursuing employment creation for our youths, who, of course, contributed quite a lot to bringing this Government into power. We are trying to do this through the unprecedented increase in the allocation for the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), which will spur job creation.

Madam, we know that co-operatives are a major driver in offering a platform of employment for our youths. We would therefore, need to be coupled with a good tracking system for us to understand whether our objective of creating this employment is indeed, being felt and progressing to the levels that we expect to make an impact in the lives of our youths.

So, for this reason, Madam Speaker, this Government will definitely work very hard and in earnest to put management operating systems in place that will ensure that policies that we are putting in place are actualised. So, to put a timeline to it, we are currently working on inclusion of elements for developing these systems in the 2023 Budget, so that we have a budget that will support the studies and job tracking system development. This will ensure that we come up with well focused and directed systems that will generate information that is practical and that will inform policy development and refinement. So, that is one element we are looking at in the 2023 Budget.

Secondly, in the interim, I have indicated that we are working on some systems that will enable us have a result by the end of the third quarter.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr A. Banda (Chimwemwe): Madam Speaker, it is true that Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs) actually contribute a lot to the development of the nation. Unfortunately, the new SMEs owned by youths are actually killed upon formation. These SMEs are mandated to register with the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA). As soon as they register, they also compelled to submit monthly returns, coupled and accompanied by Proof of Payment (POP). In these youthful groups, capital is borrowed and they only have two directors, who do not even get an income. How then do they pay NAPSA because NAPSA keeps on giving them penalties? Does the hon. Minister have any plans to assist these SMEs come out of this NAPSA predicament?

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, we are a responsible Government and when we put a programme in place that provides future benefits in terms of social security for those in the informal sector, we do recognise their vulnerabilities and capabilities that will provide basis for us to progress and make a customised product that responds to their specific needs within their circumstances.

Madam Speaker, we have been working very actively through the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) to reach out to the informal sector and ensure that people in this sector are also included. We do not want to leave anyone behind. We have to ensure that people in the informal sector are also included in planning for their future. This is because there is no moment where one can say, “I will only be able to plan for my social security when my finances are at a certain level.” So, for that reason, NAPSA is working to include SMEs in a manner that does not expand or deepen their vulnerability. The ministry is working closely to also revise the penalty rates across the board. Within that parameter, the SMEs are also included.

Madam Speaker, I just want to assure you that the circumstances faced by SMEs circumstances are different. So, what we arrange for their start-up payment and what applies to their performance in terms of payments, is given a particular special parameter so that they may not end up in a situation where their business is destroyed. Our intention is to grow their business while we are ensuring that they are also planning for their future. So, their package is specifically customised not to create deeper or greater vulnerabilities.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, I want to bring to the attention of the hon. Minister that the Employment Code Act No. 3 of 2019, stipulates the parameters of what “employment” is and what a “job” is. Having taken that into account, the question that was asked is about creating mechanisms and her answer is that they have not yet created a mechanism to monitor the jobs created by Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs). The people of Chilubi want to know what the major challenge is. If parameters have been set in the Employment Code Act of what a job is and so on and so forth, what is the major challenge in creating a mechanism to monitor the job creation which the SME window is contributing?

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, the concern the hon. Member has is a concern that is shared. We have been in Government for about nine to ten months now and we are looking at every one of the policies that interpret the mandate of the ministry. We are trying to audit and establish what management operating systems have been put in place, which include the tracking systems for each one of the policy mandate areas.

Madam Speaker, although SME development has been in place for a long time, the previous Government probably did not give it the highlight that the New Dawn Government gives it. If it was the case, there would have been systems for tracking jobs in that particular sector. For us, we are actively following through because we know that we are promoting, for instance, job creation through co-operatives, like I indicated earlier on. Therefore, we are refining and putting in place these systems where there is none, which I can assure the hon. Member, will be in place by the end of the year. We too are very concerned that we need to count the jobs which are happening in the informal private sector because this is where the jobs are growing fast, compared to the public sector, as I would put it.

Madam Speaker, across the world, jobs grow faster in the informal sector. So, this is where we are prioritising development of systems that will demonstrate areas that need incentives. If we know the numbers that are coming through from the SME, in the informal sector, in terms of employment, we will also target policies in the tax regimes that will support those particular sectors. So, there are many reasons as to why we too, would be very interested in developing these tracking systems for the informal sector. This is our area of focus and we can do well. We can assure the hon. Member that where we will find nothing, we will put something.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, indeed, the New Dawn Government has only been in Government for ten or so months. Madam Speaker, the question I am posing is not being brought on this Floor for the first time. When it was previously posed, the technocrats responded that the system was being worked on. That suggests that we are moving very slowly. Given that part of the difficulty in capturing information in the informal sector is the onerous requirement that employers have to submit, regarding the people they offer jobs to, be it on temporary bases or not, is the ministry going to consider a simplified version which probably just captures the numbers, without any other information in order to enhance the monitoring of what the employment numbers in the Small Medium Enterprise (SME) sector are?

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, this mask is killing my ability to communicate. I am becoming breathless.

Laughter

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, indeed, one of the areas we are focusing on is checking out and identifying other institutions that are cardinal, that are likely to have the information that we are looking for. We know that the informal sector, the SME clientele, are likely to interact with the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA), the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA), the National Pensions Scheme Authority (NAPSA) and the Workers Compensation Fund Control Board (WCFCB). So, for that reason, we look to expanding our net in terms of collaborating with other institutions that are already capturing that information and that will be the basis for us to collate and fill up the data trackers. So, we will collaborate with ZRA, NAPSA, WCFCB, ZDA and many other institutions that are likely to receive data on the increase or decrease of business in the informal sector.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chewe: Madam Speaker, labour is a robust matter that needs a lot of research. Is the hon. Minister considering engaging the private sector to help capture people taking into an account that we have jobs and employment? By jobs, we are referring to people who may be employed for a short period for example, by tobacco growers. We also need to look at how beneficial it is to capture these people. If we capture for instance, people who will be in employment for three months, and after that, they are back on the streets, do we consider that as job or employment?

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister considering bringing in the private sector to help come up with a proper mechanism so that we have proper statistics?

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, indeed, the Ministry of Labour and Social Security operates within the traditional platform of tripartism. The tripartism platform brings together the worker, who is the representatives of the workers in the Zambia Federation of Employer (ZFE). We also interact with our social partners, the ZFE. This too is on the table. Together, we have a platform through which we bring our ideas together, some which end up in developing various systems that will help execute the standards as expected. The Tripartite Consultative Labour Council (TCLC) brings together the Government workers’ and employers’ representatives.

Madam Speaker, I believe that private sector is party to that platform through the ZFE. Yes, we will be happy to receive the hon. Member’s input through that channel. Knowing that the hon. Member has got that interest, we will look at other mechanism that can ensure that we have consultation that is going even beyond that particular one. Of course, the ministry practices an open door policy. The hon. Member can pass by our offices and talk to us. Various stakeholders will be engaged as we develop these systems as well and we will ensure that we engage with the hon. Member, so that we bring together that private sector community that can add value to refine this kind of the system that we will be developing.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kangombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, the question by the Member of Parliament for Solwezi East was whether there were any mechanisms to monitor statistically the number of jobs created by Small Medium Enterprises (SMEs). The answer by the hon. Minister was that there were no mechanisms. Does the ministry intend to engage a consultant or within the Zambia Statistics Agency (ZSA), it feels there are adequate competences to develop these mechanisms?

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, I want to correct what the hon. Member for Kamfinsa has brought to the Table, that I said we do not have a targeted mechanism specifically for SMEs. While we have a broader mechanism, I do recognise the fact that we do not have one which is targeted to SMEs. So, in order to do that, we will depend on the stakeholders within the realms of those we are collaborating with, like Zamstat, that has quite a number of professionals in survey, who are good at statistics. However, that does not stop us from tapping from the private sector and other sectors. So, they can come along.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.

_______

MOTION

THANKS TO HIS EXCELLENCY, MR SERGIO MATTARELLA’S SPECIAL ADDRESS

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House places on record its thanks to His Excellency, Mr Sergio Mattarella, President of the Republic of Italy, on the occasion of his special address to the House.

Madam Speaker, the House was greatly honoured to host His Excellency, Mr Sergio Mattarella, President of the Republic of Italy, who addressed the House yesterday, Thursday, 7^th July, 2022. It is gratifying to note that this is the first time that the National Assembly of Zambia was addressed by a visiting Head of State.

Madam Speaker, the address covered a number of important issues of common interest to both the people of Italy and Zambia. Allow me, at this point, to make a few observations about the bilateral relations between Italy and Zambia.

Madam Speaker, this is not the first time that our country is being visited by a Head of State from Italy. The last visit of an Italian President was in 1989 when Mr Francesco Cossiga, the then President of Italy, visited Zambia. It is a great honour to have another President of Italy visit our country.

Madam Speaker, since Independence, Zambia has traditionally enjoyed excellent ties of friendship with Italy, which have become more intense in the last years. The Italian Embassy was one of the first embassies to be opened after Independence and an Italian Ambassador has been resident in Lusaka since May, 1966.

Madam Speaker, the relationship between Italy and Zambia was founded on mutual trust and respect for one another. Italy has always played a fundamental role in standing side-by-side with Zambia in fostering development in this country. The Italian Government has, for a long time, collaborated in the implementation of several projects, such as the construction of the Kafue Gorge Hydro-Power Station, as referred to by the visiting President, Tanzania Zambia Mafuta (TAZAMA) pipeline and Indeni Petroleum Refinery, which were undertaken soon after our Independence. There are numerous Italian entities that finance development projects, through Italian non-governmental organisations (NGOs) that operate in Zambia, and local organisations that receive support.

Madam Speaker, the relationship between Zambia and Italy has resulted in mutual benefit to both countries in many sectors. In terms of trade and investment, a number of Italian companies have invested in Zambia in various sectors of our economy ranging from dairy industry, infrastructure development, health, agriculture, and tourism, among others.

Madam Speaker, in the energy sector, Zesco Limited has partnered with Enel Green Power (EGP), an Italian company, to construct the 34 MW Ngonye 1 Solar Project. The construction of the plant will help to reduce overdependence on hydro-electric power. With regard to the health sector, there has been collaboration between the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) and a group of Italian surgeons, who are specialised in paediatric vascular surgery. The establishment of the Zambia Italian Orthopaedic Hospital is further testimony of the collaboration between the two countries in the health sector.

Madam Speaker, in terms of arts and culture, the Italian Government has partnered with the Zambian Arts Industry and has provided a platform for Zambian artists, which has given them visibility at international level. It is gratifying to note that the Italian Embassy in Lusaka has been instrumental in reviving the arts industry in Zambia. Currently, there is an art exhibition at the Lusaka National Museum themed “Building an Art Bridge between Italy and Zambia”. The exhibition has been running from 20^th April, 2022 and is scheduled to end today, Friday, 8^th July, 2022.

Madam Speaker, allow me also to mention that a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) between the Italian Ministry for the Environment, Land and Sea and the Ministry of National Development Planning was signed in Rome on 30^th November, 2018, with a five-year validity. The MoU has seen the establishment of a Joint Committee, which is, currently, discussing funding of about 3.5 million Euros for three projects, namely the Tilapia Cage Farming on Lake Mweru, upgrade of the Lundazi Green Village Project, Magodi Solar Photovoltaic Mini-Grid and the project of scaling-up the reduction of emissions from health sector projects in Lusaka and Lundazi districts.

Madam Speaker, at Parliamentary level, a delegation of the Italian Senate Human Rights Committee, led by Senator Enrico Pianeta, visited Zambia and had a meeting with Mr A. N. M. Nakalonga, MP, then, Chairperson of the Committee on Gender and Human Rights in October 2004.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, allow me to state that we are very grateful for this historical moment of having received His Excellency, Mr Sergio Mattarella, to this august House. His address to the House raised a number of pertinent issues that relate to the promotion of mutual co-operation between the two countries that the House needs to debate. In addition, the House will have an opportunity to deliberate on issues that not only affect our work, as Parliamentarians, but also those that are of both national and international importance.

Finally, Madam Speaker, I wish to reiterate our continued commitment to further develop co-operation between the two countries in various fields and at different levels.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me an opportunity to give a Vote of Thanks to the speech that was delivered by His Excellency the President, Mr Sergio Mattarella, to this august House.

Madam Speaker, the long-standing relationship between Zambia and Italy cannot be underplayed. Italy has played a significant role in as far as economic emancipation of Zambia is concerned. The presence of Italy and Italian companies has predated our country’s Independence.

Madam Speaker, it is a significant moment to receive a Head of State at that level. As they say, when young men wash their hands, they qualify to sit with elders at the table. One would, then, think that the visit by President Sergio Mattarella to Zambia could be a quick response to the address by President Hakainde at the European Union (EU), not long ago.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, in all fairness, the economic diplomacy being sought by President Hakainde is, obviously, bearing fruit, following the visit by President Sergio Mattarella.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, I wish to lament that, for a very long time, we have pursued common interests with our colleagues in other countries. Not long ago, President Tshisekedi visited Zambia, and there was jubilation with regards to the business opportunities that were being opened up in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). However, my interaction with our friends from the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, has proved that there is very little progress being made in pursuit of the opportunities that are being opened up through these interactions at that level.

Madam Speaker, if we travelled to the DRC today, we would find a number of trucks marooned all the way from Kasumbalesa to almost reaching Kitwe, posing health and business challenges there. With the business opportunities that are in the DRC, we would have seen many small, medium and big businesses benefitting from that corridor that is being opened up, following President Tshisekedi’s visit. So, the visit by President Sergio Mattarella should now take us to the level where we must ask ourselves how we can exploit the potential that lies in the two countries.

Madam Speaker, Italy has indicated to this country that it is interested in about four sectors, namely energy, agriculture, infrastructure and water resources management. Already, we have seen even from yesteryears that Enel Green Power (EGP), which is one of Italy’s biggest oil and gas companies, has a history with Indeni Petroleum Refinery Company (IPR) and the Tanzania Zambia Mafuta (TAZAMA) pipelines. One would think that we should now take advantage of their coming into Zambia to exploit the potential in these fields. The EGP has already set its foot in Zambia by constructing a 34 MW solar power supply in the Lusaka South Multi-Facility Economic Zone (LSMFEZ). There is more that we can benefit from the Italians if only, through the Zambian Development Agency (ZDA) and Italian Trade agencies, using the platform that already exists, the Italian Business Forum (IBF) could pursue interests so that conglomerates of companies in Italy can come and explore business opportunities in our country.

Madam Speaker, there is an important event that happens in Italy called the “Macfruit Horticulture Fair.” This fair brings to the fore opportunities in agricultural products. I remember that there was a group of Zambians that went to Italy to exhibit in 2018/2019. Now, this opportunity comes at a time when Zambia has signed trade agreements with European countries to export our avocados. There is an insatiable appetite for avocados as well as cashew nuts by Italians and these are plenty in our countryside. I think that in all fairness, this is an opportunity for us to tap into this potential by making sure that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, working alongside the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, finance ZDA to go on a mission to push Zambians, who are in business, and local farmers to grow avocados and cashew nuts and exploit that market that is yawning in Italy.

Madam Speaker, what surprises me is that the trade volumes between Italy and Zambia weigh very heavily on Italy. For example, in 2019, the volume of export by the Italians into Zambia was standing at US$58 million, whereas we only had a paltry of exports to Italy of only US$10 million. The opposite should be the case now that there are these opportunities, particularly in the production of avocados, with the plenty land and water resources that we have.

Madam Speaker, Zambia can be a hub in the region as far as energy is concerned. In fact, if we exploited the full potential of the energy sector in Zambia, we could, obviously, deal with issues of us even going to the International Monetary Fund (IMF) because the region lacks electricity. There have been issues of shortages of electricity in neighbouring countries. Zambia enjoys comparative advantage because of its centrality and its endowment in terms of water resources as well as availability of land. There is an appetite by the Italians to explore these opportunities. Already, there is an indication that EGP has already come to set a base in our country. What follows now is that after the visit by President Sergio Mattarella, the actors responsible for ensuring that we exploit these potentials must move into action. It is not correct for ZDA to start lamenting over lack funding. Of course, the only challenge ZDA has is a lack of funding. I think this is the time we must now ignite the actors into action so that they can, then, explore these potentials.

Madam Speaker, I was in Grade 1 when the last President of Italy visited Zambia. I am extremely excited to have been in this House and shared the same room with the visiting President of Italy. However, I want to see the visit of President Sergio Mattarella culminate into actions that are going to benefit the people of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, let me end by stating that I have no problem with the Chief Marketer going to open up windows. The only issue we must now deal with is that the responsible entities must move into action so that we can, then, begin to see benefits trickling down to the common Zambians.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order!

Because of the limited amount of time, I appeal to you, hon. Members, not to exhaust all your time, if you can, so that as many hon. Members as possible can debate this Motion.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity given to me to place on record, our gratitude and appreciation on the visit by the President of Italy to the Republic of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, of course, as the previous speaker has stated, we will commend good things. Where it is not ideal, we will not. We will not be an irresponsible Opposition that will oppose even that which is working for the people of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, a reciprocal visit by a Head of State shows the importance a given country attaches to another country. This is a clear demonstration that the visit by President Hakainde Hichilema to the European Union (EU) is slowly but surely translating into international relations being appreciated by the international community.

Madam Speaker, a reciprocal visit by a Head of State shows the importance a given country attaches to another country. This is a clear demonstration that the visit by President Hakainde Hichilema to the European Union (EU) is slowly but surely translating into international relations being appreciated by the international community.

Madam Speaker, I am proud to state that when I had an opportunity to serve as minister responsible for tourism, one of the greatest engagements that Zambia had with Italy, as Her Honour the Vice-President said, was the establishment of a cultural exchange centre here in Zambia. I was privileged to have officially commissioned that place.

Madam Speaker, one of the issues that Italy has been pushing is the interest in gastronomy. We must be able to understand that for us to attract as many Italians as possible to visit Zambia, we must do away with culture. There are certain things that we have ingrained that are hindering the growth of Zambia in the international community, such as limitations of language. We feel English is the medium of communication, but less than 30 per cent of the world’s population uses English. So, as a country, we must agree to open up to other languages so that we are able to attract other nationalities to visit our country.

Madam Speaker, as I stated, gastronomy is key to attracting tourists. Having sat in the Ministry of Tourism, I know that that there are people in Europe who think that there is nothing in Africa. When I was in Spain, I was shocked to learn that at the time Zambia hosted the World Tourism Organisation (WTO) conference, there were people who came from Europe and lived in some places in Livingstone, but never went out because they had the notion that they could not find food to eat in Zambia, in particular, and Africa, in general. A lady told me that she stayed in Zambia for five days and she did not go out of her room until the day she went to the Victoria Falls Town in Zimbabwe and flew back to Europe. These are real issues that we need to deal with.

Madam Speaker, that is why the Italian Ambassador to Zambia came up with a cultural exchange programme between Zambian and Italian cooks. I was also privileged to officiate at a ceremony where we sent ten Zambians to learn about gastronomy in Italy. Italians also came to Zambia so that when they are in Italy and they are looking at which countries to invest in and visit, the first thing they will ask is if they are going to have food that they are used to eating as they visit these countries.

Madam Speaker, as we come up with policies under various ministries and departments, these are some of the key things that we neglect, as a country, that impact negatively on the growth of the economy. So, we must be able to look at realities that affect our growth and expansion, as a nation.

Madam, one important thing that has affected Zambia’s expansionary growth is the language barrier. One cannot find an Italian who will come and visit Zambia because of differences in culture and language. It is a difficult subject. It is a challenge. The other thing they will look at is the gastronomy, the type of food that we have in Zambia. If we began to open and exchange and promote international and local cuisines, other nationals would get interested in coming to visit Zambia. We would, then, be able to attract a lot of investment.

Madam, this brings me back to the issue of the investments the Italian Government has been pumping into Zambia. The Italians have been one of the pioneers who came to the aid of this country when it was not fashionable for the western countries to partner with Zambia. They came to the aid of this country when the First Republic was airlifting petroleum products from Kenya into Zambia because we did not have service stations as late as 1966/1967. It took the Italian Government to partner with the Republic of Zambia and the Republic of Tanzania to put up the Tanzania-Zambia Mafuta (TAZAMA) pipeline that saw the birth of Indeni Petroleum Refinery Company Limited.

Madam, there is certain infrastructure of historical importance. So, even as Her Honour the Vice-President sits in Cabinet and makes decisions, one of the decisions she has to look at is the historical background of TAZAMA and Indeni Petroleum Refinery Company Limited. If there is anything the Government can do to save that institution from collapsing, closing or being placed on care and maintenance, for the sake of the history and the sacrifices that the Italian people made for the people of Zambia, the Government must look for money and recapitalise Indeni Petroleum Company Limited and TAZAMA so that that history is cherished and maintained.

Madam Speaker, the President also spoke about Lake Kariba, which is one of the biggest man-made lakes in the world. It took the Italians, who had our interests, as Zambians and Africans, to come to our aid and build that marvel. Even when it began developing cracks, we, as a nation, did not abandon it. We went back to them and they came to our aid. They are helping us to maintain that infrastructure.

Madam, in short, I appeal to Her Honour the Vice-President to look at some of these very critical investments of historical nature. Even as she sits in the Cabinet and Cabinet is about to make decisions, she should not just look at the commercial value or interests, but also look at the perspective of the history. Where are we coming from? It was very expensive to airlift petroleum products from Kenya into Zambia. These are our brothers and sisters, who came and helped us to set up that which has made life easier today that we would want to place on care and maintenance or even close.

Madam Speaker, I was one of the recipients of the global recognition by the President of Italy last year, on 31^st April. It was on my birthday, and I was recognised and awarded as one of the citizens of this globe. I want to appeal, once again, that the important relationship that Zambia shares with Italy be maintained and cherished by successive Governments.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Sefulo (Mwandi): Madam Speaker, thank you for according the people of Mwandi an opportunity to add a voice to the debate on the Motion of Thanks on the Address by the President of Italy.

Madam, let me mention that in 1989, when the last Italian President visited Zambia, I had not started school yet. What does that mean?

Laughter

Ms Sefulo: Madam, before I go to the speech by the President of Italy, let me thank our President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, who is our chief marketing officer, who delivered a speech at the European Union (EU) Parliament, whose results we are already seeing today.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Sefulo: We have not had a President from Italy visit Zambia for the past thirty years. We are privileged to have had this visit after that speech that he delivered at the EU. I am so sure we will have many more visits and investment opportunities in Zambia, which are going to trickle down to everyone else. All that will be delivered by the chief marketing officer of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, one of the things that really caught my attention in the President’s Address was the recognition of Africa’s potential contribution towards the workforce. It is estimated that Africa will contribute about 25 per cent of the global workforce. What does this mean for Zambia, as a country? It means that it is high time we invested in skills development, which the New Dawn Government is already doing, as you can see. This is aimed at ensuring that we also tap into this potential and contribute towards the 25 per cent global workforce that Africa is going to contribute.

Madam, we also want to thank the President for the bilateral relationship with Italy. I will not talk about what my other hon. Colleagues have already talked about like the construction of the Kariba Dam.

Madam Speaker, the President also mentioned that they used to say Africa is the future, but now Africa, or let me say Zambia, is the present. This means that we have to invest in the present to ensure that we eliminate the socio-economic hardships that we have had, as a country, so that we can deliver education. This one brings me back to what the President mentioned, and that is free education. This has already been introduced by the New Dawn Government to make sure that we can overcome these socio-economic hardships that we have been having.

Madam Speaker, the President also spoke about the natural resources that Zambia has. It has the potential to have a car manufacturing industry. Let me mention that Zambia has all the mineral resources needed to make electric vehicles. From the Address, this is an area with a lot of potential from which we can tap to ensure that, as developmental projects are being embarked on, such plants are built in Zambia. That way, we will not export the minerals that we have as raw materials, but make sure that the assembling or making of such vehicles is undertaken in the country to make sure that we can also benefit from the mineral resources that we, as Zambia, have.

Madam Speaker, you guided that we should not exhaust all the eight minutes allocated to us. So, I will leave the remaining two minutes to other hon. Colleagues. I am very grateful for the historical visit by the President of Italy.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Thank you very much for your kindness, Madam Speaker, of permitting the good people of Lumezi to add their thoughts to the debate on the Motion of Thanks on the Address by the President of Italy.

Madam Speaker, permit me to congratulate the New Dawn Government on having started on a good note in marketing Zambia. In the same vein, permit me to mention that I am a Pan-Africanist. I will start my speech with a quotation from the Italian President’s Speech yesterday, which is that:

“Parliament is a place where we express the people’s will democratically. Democracy has solid roots in Zambia and it has proven to be appreciated by its people and through their vote.”

Madam Speaker, this is very true. Fellow hon. Members, this is a lesson to all of us that, indeed, we are in the House to speak for the people freely. This we must inherit.

Madam Speaker, on page 8 of his speech, the President said:

“The African continent is Europe’s natural partner and Europe is Africa’s natural partner.”

Madam Speaker, permit the good people of Lumezi to put on record, and speaking as a Pan- Africanist, that Liberia, Ethiopia and Eritrea were once colonised by Italy not until the death of Benito Mussolini that saw the end of the fascist regime. When such an opportunity arises, it should be an honour for us to equally mention to those leaders who still think that Africa has healed from the so many scares that were left on humankind in Africa during the era of slave trade.

Madam Speaker, indeed, our Republican President said, when he went to address the European Union (EU) Parliament that, “instability anywhere is instability everywhere.” What we should equally be witnessing is that Zambia shall not be used as a rubber stamp because this is a new era where people want to re-colonise Africa’s resources. There is a scramble for Africa that is taking place.

Madam Speaker, this scramble cannot be ignored, and I wish to put on record that we have always had foreign interests trying to remind us about the good things they have done for us, yet they do not want to state the ills that they did to our people. They do not want to be reminded about slave trade and how they evade paying our taxes and mineral royalties. However, speaking on the future, the relationship between Europe and Africa remains a doubt because of our past. Europe needs to apologise to Africa for the many scars it has left on its people. There is a reason Asia has been seen to be succeeding in Africa. So many Asian countries are doing well in Africa. They do not remind us of what they have done for us. They do it with certain conditions that are not visible to the naked eye.

Madam Speaker, having said that, as I support this speech, I want to remind our European friends that they are welcome to conduct business in Zambia, but they should not take us back to history when our people were ill treated. We are not yet ready to build a relationship that is a win-win situation if Europeans do not apologise to the African people.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for the opportunity to make a few comments on this important Motion, which is on the Floor of this House.

Madam Speaker, allow me to appreciate the President of Italy for having taken time to visit Zambia and also to address us, as hon. Members of Parliament. I am appreciating him because I know that this kind of visit has potential that will result in increased joint co-operation between our two countries, which will have a knock-on effect on the mutual benefit that we are going to derive from this visit.

Madam Speaker, Italy and Zambia, like Excellency the President, Mr Sergio Mattarella said, have had a long-standing relationship, which is evidenced by the things that the two countries have done in the past together and the help that Italy has rendered to our country.

Madam Speaker, the President talked about the enormous contribution that Italy made to Zambia during the construction of the Kariba Dam. I think even when he was standing here, he was very happy to stand in the House which was being powered by a facility that was constructed using the help of people from a country where he is President.

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the President of Italy for having come to Zambia and also for the help that the Italians rendered to this country during the construction of the Tanzania-Zambia Mafuta Pipelines Limited (TAZAMA) and the Indeni Petroleum Refinery Ltd. I happen to come from Chinsali, the Constituency which houses one of the facilities for TAZAMA. TAZAMA is providing employment to the people of Chinsali and we are also benefiting from the company’s corporate-social responsibility through which it has built a classroom block at Kapwepwe Day Secondary School in Chinsali.

Madam Speaker, like the hon. Member for Pambashe indicated, I dread to think about the future of TAZAMA and Indeni Petroleum Refinery Limited, considering the decision that this Government has made where we are not sure if the two institutions, being Government establishments, have a going concern. These are some of the issues that we should think about because, obviously, even the President of Italy would not be impressed to see the establishments the Italians helped to construct go into oblivion.

Madam Speaker, the other issue I wanted to talk about is what the hon. Member of Parliament for Nkana talked about regarding the issue of the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) taking advantage of the potential that is there to make sure that we realise it. The ZDA alone cannot do it. We need to ensure that the people we send to missions abroad are of a good calibre. For example, the Zambian mission in Italy has members of staff sent by our Government and the leadership. The people we send into foreign missions, such as trade attachés, economic attachés and education attachés, should have adequate qualifications. Those should be people who have sufficient experience. They should be people who have worked at the Road Development Agency (RDA), the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry or the Ministry of Finance and National Planning so that when they are out there, they are able to see the opportunities –

Mr Anakoka: RDA?

Laughter

Mr Mukosa: No, I meant the ZDA. Thank you for the correction.

Madam Speaker, my point is that we should be sending people who have experience so that when they see the potential or opportunities that are out there, they are able to identify them and communicate to the headquarters here in Zambia. In turn, the necessary movements can be made so that we take advantage of such opportunities.

Madam Speaker, the other issue that the President talked about was how, for example, the war in Ukraine and Russia is going to affect Zambia and Africa negatively. This is something that is very true and I agree with him. However, sometimes, I feel ashamed when I hear such things being talked about. Why do I say so? All of us seated in here should think about why, we, as a country, should be affected, for example, when we talk about the price of wheat. We have vast land that we are not taking advantage of. We are not growing sufficient wheat for ourselves. It is not just us, but even other African countries. We should be ashamed of ourselves. Why are we not taking advantage of this vast land that we have to cultivate wheat so that we can make our own flour? Why should the war in Ukraine and Russia affect the price of wheat in Zambia? Honestly, we should ask ourselves such a question. Why should the war in Ukraine and Russia affect the price of bread in Chinsali? We should be ashamed of ourselves.

Madam Speaker, it is about time we started thinking of making necessary investments in the agriculture sector so the next time when dignitaries from Europe, the United States of America (USA) and other countries come, they should come to negotiate with us on how many tonnes of wheat we can be exporting to their countries so that we are not affected indirectly and directly by wars and other external factors that are happening in other countries.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving the people of Luena an opportunity to contribute to the debate on the speech delivered yesterday, on the Floor of this House by His Excellency the President of Italy, Mr Sergio Mattarella.

Madam Speaker, it was an auspicious occasion for some of us, and I gather even for those who have been in this House for a long time, because it has not happened in a very long time that a foreign Head of State comes and addresses the House. Therefore, I pay my gratitude to the President of Italy and the Italian people.

Madam Speaker, as I stand here, I want to indicate that the people of Luena commiserate with the people of Japan, who had a very terrible incident this morning. We woke up to the news of the former Prime Minister, Mr Abe, being shot, and I understand that he has since passed on. We pass our condolences to the people and nation of Japan.

Madam Speaker, foreign relations, as undertaken by our Head of State, is a major economic factor in the development of any nation such as ours. Zambia has had a long standing relationship with many foreign nations and Italy, in particular. In fact, the President of Italy indicated in his speech yesterday that Zambia has a long and proud history of being a positive protagonist. That means Zambia always endeavours to fight for that which is just, be it trade, human relations, economic and other spheres or human endeavour.

Madam Speaker, many of the things have already been said. So, I will just pick one or two that I will highlight and leave some time for others to contribute to the debate on this important speech.

Madam Speaker, the President of Italy indicated some of the major projects that Italy has participated in, one of them being the Kariba Dam. The only lesson I would like to draw from there is that the Kariba Dam was built many years ago and, at that point, Zambia did not have sufficient numbers of engineers. One would have assumed that we learnt, both in terms of technical skills as well as management skills, how to handle such mega projects.

Madam Speaker, it is, therefore, saddening that years or decades later, we still talk about a challenge with engineering skills. I think that is the lesson that we, as a nation, should pick. If at this stage what we seem to be getting from our engineering fraternity, with due respect, is that they have just added a prefix ‘engineer’ to their name in order to be called engineer so and so, and less to what is on display in terms of engineering skills to be marveled at, it means we need to hang our heads in shame. I think this is a challenge I would like to throw to the engineering fraternity out there.

Madam Speaker, the President also talked about slave trade and some of my hon. Colleagues have already hinted on this issue. The aspect I would like to pick on that issue is the mental slavery that Africa is still living with. Political independence has been attained and Italy contributed to our fight or struggle for Independence. However, if we do nothing to ensure that we are economically and mentally independent, we shall be independent physically, but still in slavery for a long time to come.

Madam Speaker, what are we talking about when we talk about mental slavery? Many African countries still fail to realise their potential because they have not sufficiently invested in developing their skills’ base. If we do not change our curriculum in terms of education from primary school right up to the universities, we will be producing graduates, but we will not have the necessary skills set to develop our country.

Madam Speaker, let me also touch on the issue of the trade imbalance between Africa and Europe. Indeed, Zambia would like to trade with Italy, but Italy, as a member of the European Union (EU), is bound by the EU trade regulations. The EU market is an important market, but yet a very difficult one to penetrate because of the EU restrictions when it comes to exporting products there. It is okay for a person who is an EU citizen to come to Africa and enjoy the tasty steak that we enjoy in Lusaka, but it is impossible for that steak to be exported to the EU so that the meat can be enjoyed from there. Why is that so? The trade restrictions in terms of the hygiene standards expected of us are sometimes very difficult to meet. So, one would hope that the visit of the Italian President would begin to open doors and he will help us lobby that the EU opens the EU market so that Zambia and other African countries can trade and reduce on the trade deficit that Africa, as a whole, is suffering.

Madam Speaker, there is also the issue of regional instability. I would like to conclude on this issue by simply saying that, indeed, instability anywhere is instability everywhere. Right now, the Great Lakes Region is mired in instability that has been there since time immemorial. We know that if the regional blocks were to enhance the criterion for membership, as it is in terms of membership in the EU, we probably would minimise on some of these conflicts and prevent them even before they flare-up. One would, therefore, wish to appeal to the Italian Government to help us, through the EU, to ensure that conflict resolution mechanisms are probably imbedded in our regional block agreements so that when there is peace, trade can flourish and, therefore, development can come to our shores.

With those few words, Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to debate.

Thank you, Madam.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: It appears yielding time is not an asset here.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Thank you so much, Madam Speaker, for permitting me time to make a few comments in support of the Motion of Thanks to the Address made by the President of Italy, Mr Sergio Mattarella, ably moved by Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, indeed, it was a significant moment to host His Excellency the President of Italy. For those of us who are of Catholic faith, we were really –

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: I know the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development is non-Christian, ...

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: ... but he must know that some of us would have been priests. The hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security, who is on my left, is also Catholic and we were very excited, indeed. Our history with the Republic of Italy goes back into centuries because that country hosts the Vatican where the Pope resides and where his offices are based. So, it was gratifying to have the President because of those very important ties.

Madam Speaker, in the speech delivered to this august House, the President touched on a number of issues. He talked about how the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) has changed the world order and, of course, we saw the number of people who died in the Republic of Italy and we need to learn how the country is recovering from that world calamity. It was, indeed, difficult for any nation to respond to that challenge because no one knew what was coming. So, it is important that when we interact, as a world, we exchange and learn from experiences that we have encountered.

Madam Speaker, His Excellency the President of Italy talked about the issue of medication to deal with such kind of viruses. So, we need to see how Zambia can tap into the technology the Republic of Italy is utilising to develop vaccines because importing vaccines will continue being costly to African continents, just as he mentioned. So, we expect Her Honour the Vice-President to take advantage of such visits, to see how much we can learn and benefit from those who have advanced technologies.

Madam Speaker, he also talked about the issue of migration. One of the biggest challenges we have been dealing with is the influx of our youths from the African Continent to Europe where they go in search of greener pastures and jobs, which jobs can be created on this continent. Why? This continent is endowed with so much natural capital, which has been exploited by others who have created jobs in their countries. So, what the President was saying is that the solution to deal with migration lies within the African Continent. If you look at Italy and how it has been dealing with the migrants who cross the sea, although most of them do not make it, the President was saying that we have the natural capital. So, why can we not find ways, as a continent, of creating jobs for our own youths? That is the message he was sending.

Madam Speaker, all we can do when we host Presidents like him is to ask for technology transfer to help us benefit from the natural capital or natural resources we have, be it minerals, animals or others. If we can be supported by the Europeans, through technology transfer, then, we can create jobs. They are complaining that they are receiving too many of our children, who are probably becoming a burden to them because they do not plan for them. Since the President talked about this issue, we must engage him and ask him how we can benefit since he is saying that the solution is here because, as I heard from one debate, they have also benefited from the natural resources from this continent.

Madam Speaker, we appreciate some of the support they have given us, but they can do more in making sure that the African Continent starts creating jobs for its children. It is not a one-off solution, as Her Honour the Vice-President, will learn that dealing with job creation is not an easy undertaking. For example, gold deposits are being discovered. So, how can we utilise the potential that lies therein in order to create jobs for our youths so that they can stop thinking that they can only find heaven on earth when they cross oceans into Europe? This is a message I got from the President when he talked about migration, and we must utilise such visits to see how we can find solutions to this very important challenge.

Madam Speaker, my colleague talked about the support we got through the Tanzania Zambia Mafuta (TAZAMA) Pipeline, a 1,750 km of pipeline that was constructed to pump crude oil, which Zambia was importing from the outside world, to Indeni Petroleum Refinery Company for refinery.

Madam Speaker, the only way we can stabilise the cost of fuel – I know the hon. Minister for Local Government and Rural Development was a Member of the Committee on Energy, Water Development and Tourism and we always had a debate on how we can utilise Indeni Petroleum Refinery Company better. We cannot control the price of fuel using finished products. It can never happen.

 

WithIndeni Petroleum Refinery Company functional, you can import crude oil to last you three months. You can make a one-off payment and start pumping oil from Dar-es-salaam to Indeni Petroleum Refinery Company. That period will make you maintain the price of fuel and that is the reason the Italians were so helpful to ensure that the TAZAMA pipeline was constructed. We cannot even cheat ourselves that the pipeline can be used to pump finished products. It cannot work. So, it is important that with the support we got from countries like Italy, we see how we can preserve the infrastructure for future generations. I want to see the Government come here with a future sustainable plan on the infrastructure that was supported by the Italian Government.

Madam Speaker, with those few remarks, I wish to place on record that we support the Motion moved by Her Honour the Vice-President.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mbao: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Is that a point of order?

Mr Mbao: Yes, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I am looking at time. I am now eating into the next session. Is it a serious one?

You may proceed.

Mr Mbao: It is a serious one.

Madam Speaker: Proceed, hon. Member.

Mr Mbao: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65 – 

Interruptions

Mr Mbao: Please, just listen.

Laughter

Mr Mbao: Madam Speaker, my point of order is on the hon. Whip of the Opposition, who has come to the House, to give information he knows is not correct. First of all, he maintained that the Tanzania Zambia Mafuta (TAZAMA) Pipeline transports crude oil, when he knows very well that TAZAMA does not transport crude oil. It transports commingled oil, and not crude oil. Secondly, he maintained that this Government is trying to kill TAZAMA when the Patriotic Front (PF) Government never used TAZAMA and would import finished products. So, is he in order to mislead the nation, through this House, that we are killing TAZAMA, when they were the ones who actually killed TAZAMA?

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much, hon. Minister for Northern Province, for that point, but as I have earlier directed and ruled in this House, if there is an allegation that one particular hon. Member is giving wrong information, there must be evidence laid on the Table of the House to show that the information being given is not truthful because there is no way that I will know who is correct between the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu and the hon. Minister for Northern Province short of evidence being produced. So, maybe, we can leave it at that. I am also in the dying minutes. I am running out of time.

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Madam Speaker, I seek your permission to also take of my face mask so that my voice can be a bit more audible.

Madam Speaker: The hon. Minister of Health has advised that we should not do that.

Mr Nkombo: I understand. I will be closer to the microphone.

Madam Speaker: Thank you.

Mr Nkombo: I thank Her Honour the Vice-President for moving this Motion. The speech that was given to us by President Sergio Mattarella was extremely inspiring. It gave hope. It also gave, at least, to me, recognition of this country on the world map. This did not just arise. I suspect that it happened or it was occasioned by our President’s visit to the European Union (EU) Parliament.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: In a great part of the discourse from the President of Italy, he cited a few quotations from what our President said in Europe, starting with democracy. The President of Italy said that Zambia remains an iconic example of a democracy on this continent where exchange of power has happened. I think that we need to give ourselves a pat on the back for that and must continue on that path. He indicated that the last visit by an Italian President, Mr Francesco Cossiga was in 1989. From I989 to date has been a long time.

Madam Speaker, I think it was a milestone to listen to a President, who is not exactly young, deliver his speech on his feet throughout, as a sign of respect to this august House.

Madam Speaker, the President quoted His Excellency, Mr Hichilema as having said, “Instability anywhere is instability everywhere” at the summit in Europe. Indeed, it is true and I want to take my hat off for the President of the Republic for being a shining example of what Africa can be in this time and era.

Madam Speaker, the President of Italy also showed deep appreciation – those were his words – for the President and his political party’s policy on free education.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: He did that yesterday. This is something that many, especially in this country, have not appreciated, yet many of us are who we are today because of that same policy that allowed us to go to school free of charge.

Madam, the President of Italy recognised Dr Kenneth Kaunda and his contribution to national building. In his speech, those were the two Presidents whom he clearly spoke about, and because we are living it, today, I want every Zambian who is going to come across the speech by the Italian President to understand the value of the policy that this Government has re-introduced. It has given everybody an opportunity to equalise because education is the only equaliser in any society.

Madam Speaker, the grey matter is developed through an education system. So, Zambia must start appreciating and stop desensitising from this policy. Successive Governments in the last fifteen to twenty years did not place any value on education.

Madam Speaker, today, you do not have to be rich to see the walls of a classroom. We must take full advantage of that because it is in a classroom where engineers, whom hon. Colleagues have been speaking about who built the Kariba Dam, came from.

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Member: Iwe, just sit down.

Mr Nkombo: They did not come from the jungle. They came from a classroom.

Madam Speaker, the President of Italy also made reference to the two world political orders that have made the world economy start to slacken, the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) and the Russian invasion of Ukraine, which have seen the price of commodities go up. Unfortunately, this has happened at a time when there was a transition of Government. Today, many people do not want to appreciate that the cost of commodities in the world is affected by what is going on around us.

It is in Italy, Madam Speaker, where Rome sits. It is the English who said, “Rome was not built in a day”. What impression that gave me was that it is required of the country to give our Government time …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: … in order for everything that it is doing today to manifest. It cannot manifest tomorrow. It will manifest after a complete filtration of these policies that we are trying to put in place. I am very sure everybody knows that no one can demonise free education, as the case is today. That is reason enough for the Zambian people to give the United Party for National Development (UPND) a chance not to settle down, but to govern.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: If we are going to go into politics simply because we have given a clear example of what a democracy should be – Today, people are free to talk about anything. This is what was lacking before and President Mattarella was very clear that Zambia is now an icon of democracy. It is now also pushing the agenda of human rights and freedoms.

Hon. PF Members: Now?

Mr Nkombo: The respect of human rights and freedoms should not be taken as a weakness by our Head of State.

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Member: Point of order on the hon. Minister?

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, Mr Hichilema’s kindness should not be taken as a weakness.

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: It should never manifest that way. Yes, there is what we are calling the fight against corruption.

Hon. Member: Stop politicking!

Mr Nkombo: I heard Her Honour the Vice-President say that those who are innocent will prove themselves so. So, there is no reason to worry. If I am accused of anything, in Tonga we say, “Inkuku ilyanguluzya amulomo,” I must go to court.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: It means that a chicken unties its feet with a beak. One must go to court and explain oneself and one will walk.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: This justice system, in my view, from my own spectacles which are not political, does not choose who should appear before whom. There is a presumption of innocence until one is proven guilty. Let us go through the mill. It may be painful now, but if one is innocent, one must go and prove oneself. That is all it takes.

Madam Speaker, with these few words, I thank you for the opportunity to debate the President of Italy’s speech.

Thank you, Madam.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Sincere apologies to all those hon. Members who indicated to debate on the matter. On account of time, I, unfortunately, cannot allow everyone to debate. I had obtained lists from leaders on who should debate. So, I was trying to follow that list, but even that list has not been exhausted.

My sincere apologies even to hon. Members who wanted to raise points of order. We have now exhausted our time for this item and are eating into the time of the next item. So, I kindly ask Her Honour the Vice-President to wind up debate in two minutes.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I just stand to thank the hon. Members who have debated the Motion placing the thanks of this House to the speech of the President of the Italian Republic on record.

Madam Speaker, as you have indicated, the speech has generated a lot of interest. I picked a few things that I may not speak to, but we do realise, as a House, is that this address has brought acknowledgement, recognition and appreciation to the President’s trips.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: It comes from both sides of the House that now, the trips the President has been making, have begun to bear fruit. I heard this debate –

Mr Kampyongo: Question! 

The Vice-President: Somebody is not agreeing, but I did hear right from your left, Madam, that this is one of the fruits.

Madam Speaker, this is just the beginning. Some of us do not believe until we see. This is just one of the fruits. Indeed, coming here was not necessarily Italy’s own decision. It was because it heard they heard the speech that was made to the EU Assembly by President Hakainde Hichilema, and that is why the President even referred to it.

Madam Speaker, I can only assure this august House that the President will not travel for fun. When you hear that he has travelled, he has a very clear agenda, which is to market our country. As hon. Members have acknowledged, things are coming. We have seen. The Italians are here, and they will continue to interact with us.

Madam Speaker, allow me to say something not because I want to respond to everything, but that a point of order was raised on an hon. Member on the Tanzania Zambia Mafuta Pipeline (TAZAMA) and the Indeni Petroleum Refinery Company Limited. I will state from the Government’s position that what we know as the truth is that TAZAMA deals in commingled feedstock, an already refined and remixed material. Indeni Petroleum Refinery is not a refinery although I know we call it as such. It is a separator. This we have known for a long time. Indeed, it would make fuel a little cheaper, but it does not mean that it can be refined. The people out there know should know that Indeni Petroleum Refinery is not a refinery, but a separator of comingled feedstock. It does not process crude oil. Crude oil is that which is mined, but Indeni Petroleum Refinery separates already refined stock.

Madam Speaker, I just want to thank all your hon. Members, from your left and your right, for recognising that, indeed, there is a lot that we can do together and that the President must be encouraged to move to make the path and sell Zambia because Zambia is back in the …

Hon. Government Members: Champions league!

The Vice-President: … champions league.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

BILL

HOUSE IN COMMITEE

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

THE BANK OF ZAMBIA BILL, 2022

Clauses 1, 2, 3, and 4 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 5 – (Additional functions of Bank)

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi) (on behalf of The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane)): Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 5:

1. on page 11

1. after line 13 by the insertion of the following new paragraph immediately after paragraph (c):
   
   1.  

1. in lines 14 to 37 by the renumbering of paragraphs (d), (e), (f), (g), (h), (i), (j), (k), (l), (m) and (n) as paragraphs (e), (f), (g), (h), (i), (j), (k), (l), (m), (n) and (o), respectively;

1. on page 12

1.  in line 2

by the insertion of a comma and the words “in furtherance of the Bank’s functions” immediately after the word “body”;

1. in line 5 by the insertion of the words “in furtherance of the Bank’s functions” immediately after the word “subsidiaries”;

1. in lines 12 to 17 by the deletion of subparagraph (i) and the substitution therefor of the following:

1. financial instruments and, in accordance with the provisions of any other written law regulating the safe deposit of securities, hold the financial instruments in safe custody, or cause the financial instruments to be held in safe custody, for any person;; and

1. in lines 1 to 34

1. by the renumbering of paragraphs (o), (p), (q), (r), (s), (t), (u), and (v), as paragraphs (p), (q), (r), (s), (t), (u), (v) and (w), respectively;

1. on page 13

1. in lines 7 to 10 by the deletion of paragraph (y) and the substitution therefor of the following:
   
   1.  

1. in lines 17 to 18 by the deletion of subparagraph (iv) and the substitution therefor of the following:

(iv) for the performance of any other function of the Bank

under this Act;; and

1. in lines 1 to 20 by the renumbering of paragraphs (w), (x), (y), (z) and (aa) as paragraphs (x), (y), (z), (aa) and (bb), respectively;; and

1. on page 14, in lines 6 to 15

by the renumbering of paragraphs (bb), (cc) and (dd) as paragraphs (cc), (dd) and (ee), respectively.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 5, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 6 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 7 – (Board of Directors)

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi) (on behalf of The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane)): Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 7:

1. on page 14, in line 32 by the deletion of the words “not more than” immediately before the word “six”;

1. on page 15

1. in lines 3 to 5 by the deletion of subclause (3) and the substitution therefor of the following:
2. count for the purposes of a quorum;
3. vote on any question relating to the deliberations of a meeting of the Board; or
4. be a member of the audit committee of the Board.;

1. in lines 8 to 11 by the deletion of subclause (5) and the substitution therefor of the following:

(5) A person qualifies for appointment as a member of the Board if the person has-

1. proven integrity;
2. a degree from a recognised higher education institution; and
3. knowledge and experience of at least five years in the field of central banking, economics, banking, finance, law, accounting, auditing or other discipline relevant to central banking.;

 

1. in line 32 by the deletion of the words “on the recommendation of the Board”; and

1. in line 37 by the deletion of paragraph (c); and

1. on page 16, in lines 1 to 3

by the renumbering of paragraph (d) as paragraph (c).

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 7, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 8 – (Functions of Board)

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi) (on behalf of The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane)): Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 8, on page 16:

1. after line 9 by the insertion of the following new paragraph (a):

(a)  have oversight over the operations and affairs of the Bank;;

1. in lines 10 to 38 by the renumbering of paragraphs (a), (b), (c), (d), (e), (f), (g), (h), (i), (j), (k), (l), (m), (n), (o), (p) and (q) as paragraphs (b),(c),(d), (e), (f), (g), (h), (i), (j), (k), (l), (m), (n), (o), (p), (q) and (r), respectively; and

1. after line 38 by the insertion of the following new paragraph:

(s) approve the charter and the appointment of the head of the internal audit function of the Bank.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 8, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 and 21 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 22 – (Management of unfit currency)

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi) (on behalf of The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane)): Madam Speaker, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 22, on page 21, in lines 30 and 31 by the deletion of sub-clause (1) and the substitution therefor of the following:

(1) The Bank shall withdraw and destroy unfit currency.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 22, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42 and 43 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 44 – (Bank’s service to financial service providers)

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi) (on behalf of The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane)): Madam Speaker, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 44:

(a)        on page 29, in line 6 by the insertion of the words “on terms and conditions that the Bank may determine,”

             immediately after the word “institutions”; and

(b)        on page 30:

(i)         in line 12 by the insertion of the word “or” immediately after the semicolon;

(ii)        in line 22 by the deletion of the semicolon and the word “or “and the substitution therefor of a full stop; and

(iii)       in lines 23 to 25 by the deletion of paragraph (c).

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 44, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50 , , 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74 and 75 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

FIRST SCHEDULE

Mr Milupi (the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development) on behalf of (the Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane)): Madam Speaker, I beg to move an amendment in the First Schedule, in paragraph 9, on page 43:

1. in line 14, by the insertion of the figure “(1)” immediately after the figure “9”;

1. in line 16, by the deletion of the word “practice” and the substitution therefor of the word “standards”; and

1. after line 25, by the insertion of the following new subparagraph:

Amendment agreed to. First Schedule amended accordingly.

First Schedule, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Second and Third Schedules ordered to stand part of the Bill.

FOURTH SCHEDULE

Mr Milupi (the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development) on behalf of (the Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane)): Madam Speaker, I beg to move an amendment in the Fourth Schedule, on page 52, in lines 2 and 3, by the deletion of the words “and (4)(b)” immediately after the figure “32(4)(b)”.

Amendment agreed to. Fourth Schedule amended accordingly.

Fourth Schedule, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Fifth and Sixth Schedules ordered to stand part of the Bill

Title agreed to.

_______

HOUSE RESUMED

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair)

The following Bill was reported to the House as having passed through Committee with amendments:

The Bank of Zambia Bill, 2022

Report Stage on Tuesday, 12^th July, 2022.

_______

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1241 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 12^th July, 2022.

____________