Tuesday, 14^th June, 2022

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM SPEAKER

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT BY THE HON. MINISTER OF TOURISM

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, the House will recall that on Tuesday, 7^th June, 2022, the Hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker directed the hon. Minister of Tourism to render a combined ministerial statement on the cancellation of the 2022 hunting concessions and the human/animal conflict in Chama North and Katombola Parliamentary constituencies, following matters of urgent public importance by various hon. Members.

The ministerial statement was to be rendered today, Tuesday, 14^th June, 2022. However, I have received information that the hon. Minister of Tourism is still out of the country. To this effect, the ministerial statement will be issued when the hon. Minister of Tourism returns to the House.

Thank you.

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RULING BY MADAM SPEAKER

POINT OF ORDER  RAISED BY MR C. MIYUTU, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR KALABO PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY AGAINST MR G. LUBINDA, ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE PATRIOTIC FRONT POLITICAL PARTY ON WHETHER MR G. LUBINDA WAS IN ORDER TO UTTER DISRESPECTFUL STATEMENTS AGAINST THE HON. MADAM SPEAKER DURING A PRESS CONFERENCE HELD ON WEDNESDAY, 8^TH DECEMBER, 2021

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I have a ruling to render against Mr Given Lubinda, an outsider, who was found in breach of parliamentary privileges and in contempt of the House by the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services. Following its finding, the Committee recommended that Mr Given Lubinda be reprimanded at the Bar of the Assembly in accordance with Section 28(4) of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, Chapter 12 of the Laws of Zambia, Section 28(4), which states:

“If a person, not being a member, is found to have committed contempt, whether specified in section nineteen or otherwise, the Speaker shall order the person to appear before the Assembly, and the Speaker shall, upon attendance, admonish or reprimand the person at the Bar of the Assembly.”

In accordance with this provision, Mr Given Lubinda was summoned to appear before the House today. He, however, has elected not to appear before the House, in disregard of the summons. I will, nonetheless, proceed to render the ruling. Further, since Mr Lubinda has failed to appear before the House despite being summoned, the matter will be dealt with in accordance with Section 11(a) of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, which provides as follows:

“A person summoned by the Assembly or a committee under section eleven and who fails, without reasonable cause, to attend before the Assembly or the committee at the time and place specified in the summons commits an offence and is liable, upon conviction, to a fine not exceeding ten thousand penalty units or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months, or to both.

I now proceed to render the ruling. Hon. Members will recall that on Wednesday, 8^th December, 2021, when the House was considering a Private Member’s Motion moved by Mr C. Kang’ombe, hon. Member of Parliament for Kamfinsa Parliamentary Constituency, and Mr G. Mwila, hon. Member of Parliament for Mufulira Parliamentary Constituency had just finished debating, Mr C. Miyutu, hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo, raised a point of order. The point of order was against Mr G. Lubinda, the Vice-President of the Patriotic Front (PF) political party, and was based on a statement allegedly uttered by Mr G. Lubinda at a PF press conference, which Mr C. Miyutu, MP, said was covered by various media houses, including Muvi Television. In his point of order, Mr C. Miyutu, MP, alleged that at the press conference, Mr G. Lubinda was quoted to have said the following in reference to the Speaker:

“A social studies pupil is more informed than the current Speaker of the House.”

Mr C. Miyutu, MP, further stated that according to Section 19(d) of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, no one was allowed to demean the Speaker. I referred the complaint to the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services for hearing and determination.

Hon. Members, in line with parliamentary practice and procedure, and in accordance with the rules of natural justice, on 21^st December, 2021, the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly wrote to Mr Given Lubinda, requesting him to confirm whether or not the alleged statement was correctly attributed to him. In response, Mr Given Lubinda requested for further and better particulars regarding the letter written to him by the Office of the Clerk. In particular, he requested the Office of the Clerk or Mr C. Miyutu, MP, to state which media house(s) is or are alleged to have quoted him, before he could comment on the allegation.

On 2^nd March, 2022, the Office of the Clerk informed Mr Given Lubinda that one of the media houses that covered the press conference was Muvi Television and subsequently requested him to appear before the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services. In response, by a letter dated 3^rd March, 2022, Mr G. Lubinda requested the Office of Clerk to avail the publication that was produced by Muvi Television to enable him to study it and make an informed response. Following that response, the Office of the Clerk transcribed the relevant portion of the statement and sent it to Mr G. Lubinda for confirmation on whether the statement was correctly attributed to him.

By a letter dated 11^th March, 2022, Mr Given Lubinda stated that the transcription was not correctly attributed to him. Furthermore, the Office of the Clerk wrote to Muvi Television requesting the station for footage of the press conference. The station availed the office with the footage.

The House may wish to note that the point of order raised by Mr C. Miyutu, MP, raises the issue of a person committing contempt of the House by making statements that are disrespectful to the Speaker. Hon Members, as you are aware, the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act is instructive in this regard. It provides, in Section 19(d) and (e) as follows:

       “19. Any person shall be guilty of an offence who-

             (d)   shows disrespect in speech or manner towards the Speaker; or

             (e)   commits any other act of intentional disrespect to or with reference to the proceedings of the

                    Assembly or to any person presiding at such proceedings.”

Further, eminent writers on parliamentary practice and procedure, S. L Shakdher and M N Kaul in their book entitled Practice and Procedure of Parliament, Seventh Edition, (New Delhi, LokSabha, 2016,) state, at page 304, as follows:

 “It is a breach of privilege and contempt of the House to make speeches, or to print or publish any libels, reflecting on the character or proceedings of the House or its committees …

Speeches and writings reflecting on the House or its committees or members are punished by the House as contempt on the principle that such acts “tend to obstruct the Houses in the performance of their functions by diminishing the respect due to them.”

Furthermore, Erskine May, in his book entitled Parliamentary Practice, Twenty-second Edition, at page 123, states:

“…. reflections on the character of the Speaker or accusations of partiality in the discharge of his duties and similar charges against the Chairman of ways and means have attracted penal powers of the Commons.”

The erstwhile Speaker, Hon. Mr Amusaa Mwanamwambwa, had occasion to rule on a similar matter in the case of Antonio Mwanza and Stanford Kabwata (Parliamentary Debates of the Fourth Session of the Tenth National Assembly, 29^th June - 6^th August, 2010, at page 959 - 967).  This was in a matter where Ms Josephine C. Mumbi-Phiri, then hon. Member of Parliament for Munali Parliamentary Constituency, raised a point of order against Hon. V. J. Mwaanga, then Government Chief Whip, on whether he was in order to keep quiet regarding disparaging statements that were made by two outsiders during a live broadcast on Muvi Television casting aspersions on the Speaker.

The matter was referred to the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services for consideration. The Committee established that the duo’s utterances were disrespectful to the Speaker and amounted to an affront on his authority, which was a breach of privilege and contempt of the House. Upon realising the seriousness of the allegations against them, Mr S. Kabwata unreservedly apologised to the Committee, whilst Mr A. Mwanza showed no remorse. In that regard, the Committee resolved to admonish Mr Kabwata and to reprimand Mr A. Mwanza. The Hon. Mr Speaker ruled in line with the recommendations of the Committee.

From the foregoing authorities, it is clear that it is a breach of parliamentary privilege and contempt of the House for a person to make statements that are disrespectful to the Speaker or commit any other act of intentional disrespect to or with reference to the proceedings of the Assembly or to any person presiding at such proceedings.

Hon. Members, the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services met and deliberated on the matter on Thursday, 24^th March, 2022. During its deliberations, the Committee had recourse to the relevant Muvi Television footage, the point of order, and the correspondence between Mr Given Lubinda and the Office of the Clerk. Additionally, Mr M. Phiri, Director of Administration, and Mr I. Phiri, News Editor/Reporter, both of Muvi Television Station, appeared to authenticate the video footage.

Hon. Members, after considering the television footage, the point of order and the correspondence between Mr Given Lubinda and the Office of the Clerk, the Committee established the following:

      (a)  during his press conference at the Patriotic Front (PF) Party Secretariat broadcast on Muvi Television, Mr

            Given Lubinda made a statement that was contemptuous to the Hon. Madam Speaker and the House;

      (b)  despite the Committee bringing it to Mr Given Lubinda’s attention that his statement was contemptuous,

            he decided not to address the matter, but instead dwelt on the words used by Mr C. Miyutu, MP, when

            raising the point of order as not being accurately quoted; and

      (c)  even though, the words in the point of order were not quoted word for word, Mr Given Lubinda’s statement

            at the press conference was contemptuous to the Hon. Madam Speaker and the House.

The Committee, therefore, found that the statement by Mr Given Lubinda made at the press conference was disrespectful to the House and the Hon. Madam Speaker in particular. The Committee, in this regard, found Mr Given Lubinda, in breach of parliamentary privilege and in contempt of the House.

Hon. Members, in arriving at the punishment to mete out to Mr Given Lubinda, the Committee noted that the offence committed by Mr Given Lubinda was serious because the statement made at the press conference was broadcast to the entire nation. In addition, the Committee considered the fact that despite being guided and written to several times, Mr Given Lubinda did not appear to respond to the alleged contemptuous statement made against the Hon. Madam Speaker, but rather dwelt on a sentence that was used to raise the point of order.

Mr Given Lubinda was adamant that the statement he made at the press conference against the Hon. Madam Speaker was not contemptuous. Further, Mr Given Lubinda did not show any remorse for his conduct, especially that he refused to appear before the Committee. The Committee, therefore, resolved that Mr G. Lubinda, MP, be reprimanded at the Bar of the Assembly in accordance with Section 28(4) of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act.

Hon. Members, although Hon. Given Lubinda is not present in the House, I will proceed to reprimand him in absentia as resolved by the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services.

Hon. Given Lubinda, the House is extremely displeased with your conduct at the press conference held by the Patriotic Front (PF) party on Wednesday, 8^th December, 2021. At the said press conference, you made contentious remarks that did not only show disrespect to my office but also demeaned the dignity and decorum of this august House. Such conduct is unacceptable and unbefitting of your status as a person who served this House for a long period both as a Back Bencher and hon. Minister.

I urge you to endeavour to abide by the rules of this House and desist from such misconduct in future.

I thank you.

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MATTERS OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

MR J. BANDA, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR PETAUKE CENTRAL, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF EDUCATION, MR SYAKALIMA,ON ALLOWING PUPILS NOT TO FOLLOW THE CORONA VIRUS DISEASE (COVID-19) GUIDELINES IN SCHOOLS.

Mr J. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Petauke this opportunity. The school-going children in Petauke and Zambia at large, are not following the Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19) guidelines. Many school-going children are sick. As I am talking, some are even in the hospitals, sick of flu because of this cold weather. They have tried different medicines but they are still not getting healed. Is the hon. Minister of Education in order to allow school-going children not to follow COVID-19 guidelines while we, their leaders, here in Parliament, are doing that.

I seek your ruling, Madam Speaker.

 MR CHITOTELA, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR PAMBASHE, ON MR NKOMBO, HON. MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT, ON DISBURSEMENT OF CDF TO THE PUBLIC.

Mr Chitotela: On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Chitotela: I thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on this matter pursuant to Standing Order No. 34. This matter will be specific. I rise on an urgent matter of public importance against the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development.

Madam Speaker: Proceed, hon. Member.

Mr Chitotela:. Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, my brother, Hon. Garry Nkombo, in order to allow silence and let His Excellency, the President, give a directive to hon. Members of Parliament and councillors to resolve the utilisation of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), when this situation has been caused by the Executive?

Madam Speaker, I will lay on the Table the letter done by the Permanent Secretary (PS) in the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development in charge of administration. For the purpose of admissibility, Madam Speaker, I must state that these documents were legally obtained.

I am a member of the CDF Committee in Pambashe Constituency. On 27^th May, we met and this circular was made available to the members. Madam Speaker, last week, His Excellency, the President, was on the Copperbelt, and he directed councillors and hon. Members of Parliament to make sure that within sixty days, we resolve the bottlenecks that are hindering the utilisation of the CDF. Madam Speaker, after sixty days, I believe that His Excellency, the President, will be here in September to open the Second Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly for the Republic of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, my concern is – I do not know but I believe the hon. Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development is very active and very hardworking, but the people of Pambashe are wondering whether it is the hon. Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development who is causing the confusion in the utilisation of CDF, or whether it is the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts, or whether it is the hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Services, or whether it is the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development in order – I want to quote the latest circular dated 21^st April, 2022 sent to all the councils. It reads:

“All the Town Clerks and Council Secretaries, the City, Municipal and Town Councils, Republic of Zambia

RE: CDF Disbursement K6,433,000. 67

The above subject refers.

As you may be aware, a total of K1 billion has to date been disbursed to all the 156 constituencies across the country, translating into a disbursement of K6,433,695.67 per constituency. The funds are meant to cater for secondary, boarding schools, and skills development bursaries, youth, women and community empowerment. The community projects and administrative cost in the proportionate as per CDF guidelines

Below is a table showing the breakdown of the resource allocation per component for funds disbursed:

S/N      Component                                                                            Amount (ZMW)

10        Community-Based Project                                                           3,483,846.21

            Disaster Contingency

            (5% of Community Based Projects)                                                183,360.00

            Total                                                                                        3,667,206.54

 

2.0       Youth, Women and Community

            Empowerment

            Grants-40%                                                                                  488,960.87

            Soft Loans -60%                                                                           733,441.31

            Total                                                                                         1,222,402.18

 

3.0       Bursaries and Secondary Schools                                                1.222,402.18

            and Skills Development                                                         

 

4.0       Administrative Costs                                                                      321,000.00

            Total                                                                                          643, 695.67.”

The matter of interest, Madam Speaker, is this:

“Ensure funds are utilised as guided. Further, you are instructed to transfer monies relating to soft loans amounting to K733,441 from your CDF main account to the CDF revolving fund. Further guidelines on the management of the revolving fund will be availed.”

Madam Speaker, His Excellency, the President, directed us and councilors. We are at pains because when we inquired from the council secretaries, we were told that the Government will have to appoint a fund manager. By Government, I mean, Madam Speaker, the Executive.

Is the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development fair to his fellow hon. Members of Parliament and councillors who have received the directive? We have no power on how to unlock the usage of the CDF because the bottom line lies with the Executive. In the recent past, the Executive has transferred the principal officers who are responsible for implementation of CDF midway –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, you are now debating your point. I think the point has been made, and I will make a ruling.

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development in order to sit quietly without helping to resolve the directive that we have been given as hon. Members of Parliament and councillors on how to resolve the bottlenecks in terms of utilisation of the CDF, when these circulars have been coming from the Executive?

I seek your guidance, Madam Speaker.

MR MUTINTA, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR ITEZHI-TEZHI, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF EDUCATION, MR SYAKALIMA, ON SAFETY OF CHILDREN IN SCHOOLS

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mutinta: Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving the people of Itezhi-Tezhi an opportunity to raise this matter of urgent public importance. The matter is directed at the hon. Minister of Education.

Madam Speaker, as you may be aware, the country has, in the last one week, registered several accidents on young children in schools. Just last week at Mukamambo Secondary School, two girls were expelled after being defiled. Over the weekend, a child in Kabwata died out of circumstances which cannot be explained and just over the weekend, in Mazabuka, we registered four deaths of children who drowned after they were swimming in a pit.

Madam Speaker, this calls for serious attention and I want to ask the hon. Minister of Education what steps are being taken to address issues of child safety in schools, so that we maintain and uplift the juvenile justice system, which is at its lowest at the moment in Zambia.

I seek your guidance, Madam.

MR MANDANDI, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR SIOMA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF TOURISM, MR SIKUMBA, ON ELEPHANTS RAVAGING CROP FIELDS IN SIOMA

Mr Mandandi (Sioma): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mandandi: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving the good people of Sioma an opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance. The matter I wish to raise is directed at the hon. Minister of Tourism. I am aware that there is a directive that the hon. Minister should come to the House and give a ministerial statement. However, I wish our concerns also to be placed on record that the people of Sioma have had their fields destroyed by elephants. For Sioma, it is now a special case because these elephants have not only gone on rampage destroying our crops, but they have now started killing our domesticated animals. Just yesterday, I received a complaint from one of the villagers who had his two herds of cattle killed by elephants. These elephants are roaming the streets in the villages, farms and our fields. Our people are now living in danger. Truth be told, our farmers will come out of their fields without anything and people of Sioma have now become food insure.

Madam Speaker, when will the Government consider offloading maize to the good people of Sioma as community sales? We are not asking for relief maize, but for community sales. We have enough maize stocks at the Nangweshi Food Reserve Agency (FRA) sheds. When will the Government consider offloading these maize stocks to the public, so that our people can have where to lay their hands in terms of food?

I seek your guidance, Madam Speaker.

MR KATAKWE, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR SOLWEZI EAST, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND LOGISTICS, MR TAYALI, AND HON. MINISTER OF HEALTH, MRS MASEBO, ON MEASLES OUTBREAK IN SOLWEZI DISTRICT

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving the good people of Solwezi East an opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance directed at the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics and the hon. Minister of Health.

Madam Speaker, a few days ago, measles broke out in my district along the border line with the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). It has actually been identified, noticed or observed that the children from that area have had no history of immunisation. As a result of this outbreak, a number of lives are being lost. Just three days ago, I was told that about eighteen children died, in addition to thirty children who died a week ago.

Now, the concern is that the only mini hospital that was opened has got only one ambulance and one doctor, making it very difficult to cover the entire district. It is even difficult to carry out sensitisation, surveillance and so on and so forth on the outbreak of measles. It is actually now spreading and everyone is now concerned about the lives of our children.

Madam Speaker, are the hon. Ministers of Transport and Logistics and Health in order to keep quiet rather than to move so fast before measles cases reach even our children in Lusaka?

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling before many lives get lost.

MR LUNGU, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR KAPOCHE, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, MR MWIIMBU, ON MOTOR VEHICLE AND MOTORCYCLE THEFT IN SINDA

Mr Lungu (Kapoche): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

This is will now be the sixth point to be raised and it will be the final one.

Mr Lungu: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the people of Kapoche a chance to rise on a matter of urgent public importance. My urgent matter of public importance is about the theft of motor vehicles and motorcycles in Sinda District. About seven vehicles have been stolen in Sinda District and so far, no arrests have been made. As for motorcycle theft, the stealing has been on for some time now and just yesterday, a teacher was attacked by criminals. They killed him and went away with his motorcycle.

Madam Speaker, I hereby direct my question to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security to look into the matter before more lives are lost.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much for those matters of urgent public importance that have been raised by the hon. Members.

Hon. Members, before I proceed to comment on the various matters of public importance that have been raised, I wish to remind you to familiarise yourselves with Standing Orders 134 and 13.  There has been a tendency by hon. Members to raise matters which do not even qualify to be raised as matters of public importance under these Standing Orders.

As hon. Members ask or raise these points, they must first ask themselves – in addition to the criterin that is stated – whether the matter being raised is one of life or death. If it is not a matter of life and death, there is no need to raise it in the manner that it is being done under Standing Order 134. There are other means and ways under which concerns by hon. Members can be brought to the Executive to be addressed either through questions or through the Friday forty-five minute session during Her Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time. Having said that, let me now proceed to deal with each matter that has been raised by various hon. Members.

The hon. Member for Petauke has raised a matter concerning the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic. Hon. Member, this matter is well known to the Government. The Government has, through the Ministry of Health, already measures in place to make sure that citizens are protected against this pandemic. So, the matter that the hon. Member for Petauke has raised does not qualify to be raised as a matter of urgent public importance within the meaning of Standing Order No. 134. The hon. Member’s issue can therefore be addressed through other avenues such as questions, as I had earlier advised.

The hon. Member for Pambashe has also raised a matter of urgent public importance based on the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) guidelines. The hon. Member is aware that on Wednesday, there is Private Member’s Motion, which is going to be debated before this hon. House concerning CDF guidelines. So, the matter will be open for debate and hon. Members will raise their issues, and the hon. Minister at that time will respond to the concerns. So, again, hon. Member, that matter can hold. Let us address it on Wednesday, and not today.

The hon. Member for Itezhi-Tezhi raised a concern about incidences that have happened at various schools, where some children have died through accidents and others have drowned. I do not know if the hon. Minister of Education is here. The hon. Minister is not here. So, because life has been lost, and I think it is the desire of this hon. House not to lose lives of our children through the negligent acts of schools or anybody of that nature, the hon. Minister of Education is therefore, ordered to render a ministerial statement this Friday on this matter. This is in order to address this House and through this House, the people of Zambia on what measures are being taken to ensure that life is not lost through negligent criminal activities of the people in whose hands young children are being entrusted with.

The hon. Member for Sioma has raised the issue of human/animal conflict. In my announcement, I said that the hon. Minister of Tourism was to render a combined ministerial statement on the human/animal conflict and the cancellation of the concession licences. So, since the hon. Minister will come through at an appropriate time to give a ministerial statement on this matter, the hon. Member for Sioma can wait for that session to put a question to the hon. Minister to address the concerns that he has mentioned in Sioma.

On the issue of offloading of maize, the hon. Member for Sioma is advised to liaise with the hon. Minister of Agriculture to see when this can be done. Of course, it is important as it raises the issue of hunger, but it is not a matter of life and death. So, the hon. Member for Sioma can put in a question or ask the hon. Minister or Her Honour the Vice-President on Friday during the forty-five minute Vice-President’s Question Time.

The hon. Member for Solwezi East has also mentioned that children are dying because of an outbreak of measles. On the issue of transportation, I did not get the – So, it was the outbreak of measles. I have seen some reports in the newspapers that there is an outbreak of measles. Since the Government has not taken measures to alert the people, the hon. Minister of Health is directed to render a ministerial statement before this hon. House to explain what measures are being taken to address that outbreak of measles. The statement by the hon. Minister of Health will be delivered to this House to that effect on Tuesday, next week.

On the issue of theft of motor vehicles, hon. Member for Kapoche, this is, again, not a matter of life and death. If vehicles are being stolen and there are no arrests, I am sure you can find another mechanism through which you can raise this issue so that it is brought to the attention of the respective hon. Minister in charge of the police to make a follow up and answer your question.

That concludes matters raised as matters of urgent public importance.

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, –

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I rise of on a point of procedure based on Standing Order No.129.

Madam Speaker, let me begin by appreciating you for awarding me this opportunity to raise a point of procedure under Standing Order No. 129. Madam, your office directed the hon. Minister of Tourism to come to this House today to render a ministerial statement on a matter which was raised by various hon. Members, which today, has been supplemented by the hon. Member of Parliament for Sioma, signifying its importance.

Madam Speaker, your office has made an announcement today, indicating that the hon. Minister, who should have been here to account on behalf of the Government, is out of the country. Your hon. Members were not seeking and are not seeking the hon. Minister’s personal opinion. What your hon. Members are seeking is the Government position. It is our understanding that when an hon. Minister leaves the country, there is an acting hon. Minister.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, it is our understanding, that in the absence of the acting hon. Minister, we have the Leader of Government Business in the House.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya: It is further our understanding that in the absence of all those, there is the Government Chief Whip. For that United Party for National Development (UPND) Government to avoid accountability on account of the absence of one hon. Minister in the country has shocked me.

Hon. PF Members: It has shocked all of us.

Mr Kafwaya: It has shocked all of us.

Madam Speaker, is the Leader of Government Business in the House in order to allow circumvention of accountability simply because one hon. Minister is out of the country? I seek you serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, when we just began the sitting, I made an announcement, of course, it is important that when the Speaker makes an order or gives a direction to hon. Ministers to make a ministerial statement, that order must be complied with without fail.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Where the hon. Minister is out on Government business, another hon. Minister acting in that position is supposed to render the statement.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: However, we have not been advised on who was supposed to render that statement because efforts were made to ensure the ministerial statement was rendered as advised. However, a request was made that since the hon. Minister who is a substantive holder of that office and understands the issues concerning or surrounding the issue that was raised is not around, it was important that the hon. Minister answers those questions. So, I know that Parliamentary business take precedent. I have just used my discretion to allow this, but let it be noted that in future, such excuses will not be allowed.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: When a direction is given, with regard to a ministerial statement, that ministerial statement must be rendered accordingly so that the people are notified or told on what is happening and are they are kept informed and also that hon. Members concerns are addressed. So, let it be the last incident to happen where an hon. Minister is ordered to make a ministerial statement and he/she does not make it. That will not be accepted.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

EMPOWERMENT OF WOMEN AND YOUTH CO-OPERATIVES IN CHITAMBO DISTRICT

338. Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu) (on behalf of Mr Mandandi (Sioma)) asked the Minister of Agriculture:

       (a)    whether the Government has any plans to empower women and youth cooperatives in Chitambo   

               District with agricultural machinery;

       (b)     if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

       (c)     if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Fisheries and Livestock (Mr Chikote) (on behalf of the Minister of Agriculture (Mr Mtolo)): Madam Speaker, …

Mr Kabuswe crossed the Floor.

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development in order to pass between your Chair and somebody who is presenting a statement on the Floor of the House? Does that hon. Minister need another workshop? I need your serious ruling.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order!

The hon. Minister is definitely out of order.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: The rules are very clear. Let us make sure we comply and observe the rules. The hon. Minister may proceed.

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, the mandate of the cooperatives falls under the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development. I, therefore, advise that the question be directed to the relevant ministry holding the portfolio of cooperatives.

Madam Speaker, notwithstanding such, the New Dawn Government has plans to increase agriculture production and productivity through a number of programmes outlined in the Eighth National Development Plan (8^thNDP). One of the priority programmes to achieve this is agriculture mechanisation.

To this end, Madam Speaker, the Government is formulating a national mechanisation strategy which will inform stakeholders investment opportunities in agriculture mechanization. Mechanisation strategy will be inclusive and will cover both the interests of women and youths in the sector. Like I stated earlier on, the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprises has these plans as well as the programme. Therefore, this is the ministry which is mandated for the cooperatives.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of procedure, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Before we go to the Supplementary Questions, there is a point of order being raised by the hon. Member for Chama South. Hon. Member for Chama South, do you have a point of order?

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, it is a point of order procedure under Standing Order No. 129 and also Standing Orders No. 65 which states that the information provided on the Floor of the House should be factual and verifiable.

Madam Speaker, you have explained to your hon. Members in this august House that the reason the hon. Minister of Tourism has failed to render a ministerial statement is because he has travelled or he is out of the country.

Madam, I have reliable information that yesterday evening, the hon. Minister of Tourism was with one of very close colleagues. Therefore, I still feel that the answer which the Government has provided to you might be inaccurate unless the hon. Minister travelled after midnight or, indeed, this morning. Therefore, is Her Honour the Vice-President in a position to come and show proof to this august House in terms of showing us the airline ticket and the bookings so that we verify that, indeed, the hon. Minister is outside the country and not dodging being accountable to your august House because our people, especially those who work for these outfitters are suffering and they are troubling us. You have heard, Madam Speaker, that animals are on rampage and this is likely to also affect conservation as was the case in the past.

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chama South, I have already commented on this matter. Let us not flog a dead horse. Let us leave it. The hon. Minister of Tourism has been given the benefit of doubt. Let him come and when he comes, he will render the necessary ministerial statement as ordered. Let us make progress.

Mr Kasandwe: Madam Speaker, in his answer, the hon. Minister has acknowledged and accepted that, indeed, the Government has plans to empower some women and youths in Chitambo. However, he has told this House that that plan is in the Eighth National Development Plan (8^th NDP). From where I stand, that plan is still a draft because it has not been approved by this House according to Budgeting and Planning Act of 2020. For any development plans to be in effect, it should be approved by this plan. So, can we take the hon. Minister’s answer that indeed, the Government has plans seriously when he is referring to the document that has not be approved by this House?

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, from the onset, I stated that the mandate for co-operatives is under the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development.

Mr Chitotela: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, as I talking to you, …

Mr Chitotela: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chikote: …the programme for the youths and women who have formed co-operatives is in the hands of the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development. The Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development is there and its programmes are active. I was responding that we, as a Government, have a general strategy of improving agriculture production and productivity hence, my going further to state that the strategy that we are making is under the Eight National Development Plan (8^th NDP). However, the programme which the hon. Member is requesting for the youths who have formed co-operatives is active under the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Pambashe, you are anxiously trying to raise a point of order. What is your point of order?

Mr Chitotela: I am at pains, Madam Speaker, to hear my friends in the Executive and maybe, probably the Office of the Clerk is misdirecting. This is Parliament. Zambians are listening and we are here to represent them.

The Government has a duty through line ministries –. if line Ministers are not there, there is the Leader of Government Business in the House or the acting hon. Minister. If the appropriate question we are dealing with is directed to the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development and I happen to see the hon. Minister, he is sitting next to him. Why is the hon. Minister of Agriculture responding on his behalf and why did Parliament erroneously pass a question to the ministry which is not responsible for that subject, bearing in mind that statutory functions are in the gazette notice which is sitting in the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly?

I seek your serious guidance, Madam Speaker.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: I heard the Acting hon. Minister of Agriculture state that the issue was actually wrongly directed to the Ministry of Agriculture. Maybe, what we can do is ask the Office of the Clerk to redirect the question to the appropriate ministry.

Hon. PF Members: Yes!

Madam Speaker: Otherwise, we will be asking questions and not getting answers. So, the question is, therefore, redirected to the hon. Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Lumezi, do you have a point of order?

Mr Munir Zulu: Yes, Madam Speaker. Thank you, you are very kind. At your discretion, I cite Standing Order No. 133, not to challenge your earlier ruling, but procedurally, where it concerns life and death, you have been ruling and guiding that the Executive should provide answers. However, in your ruling for the hon. Member for Kapoche, on a matter where a robbery took place and death only occurred yesterday, you ruled that that matter was not a matter of urgent public importance. It is only right where a death occurred less than twenty-four hours ago that that matter is given the attention it deserves, at your discretion, of course.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Lumezi, the presiding officer has already made a ruling on the matter. So, the hon. Member for Kapoche has other options in which to raise that issue, not necessarily under Standing Order No. 134. So, the door is not closed. There are so many other options that are open.

______

MOTIONS

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON PARASTATAL BODIES

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Parastatal Bodies on the Report of the Auditor-General on the Accounts of Parastatal Bodies and other Statutory Institutions for the Financial Year Ended 31^st December, 2019, for the First Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on Thursday, 31^st March, 2022.

Madam, pursuant to its terms of reference as set out under Standing Order No. 197(l), the Committee on Parastatal Bodies considered the Report of the Auditor General –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member.

Madam Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, pursuant to its terms of reference as set out under Standing Order No. 197(l), your Committee on Parastatal Bodies considered the Report of the Auditor-General on the Accounts of Parastatal Bodies and other Statutory Institutions for the Financial Year Ended 31^st December, 2019. Your Committee is honoured to present the Report on its work, to the House.

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that nineteen entities were cited in the Report of the Auditor-General which was considered by your Committee. The entities cited in the audit are spread over many economic and social sub-sectors, including public universities, parastatal bodies, financial institutions and regulatory institutions which work under the supervision of different sector ministries, as well as the Industrial Development Corporation.

Madam Speaker, State-Owned Enterprises are legal entities through which Governments take part in activities of a commercial nature. Therefore, ensuring that these entities create value for society and are managed proficiently is the cornerstone of sound public governance and a pre-condition for creating trust in Government and markets. Furthermore, in an endeavour to maximise and generate future wealth, as well as achieve its developmental and social objectives, the Government to put emphasis on strengthening accountability systems that enhance prudent resource management and governance.

Madam, the Report of the Auditor-General highlighted a number of accounting irregularities. On the premise that Members of the House have had an opportunity to peruse the report, allow me to merely highlight some of the salient points contained therein.

Madam Speaker, the Committee notes, with concern, that the Development Bank of Zambia (DBZ) continues to record poor financial performance as evidenced by the numerous queries cited in the Reports of the Auditor General for the Financial Years Ended 31^st December, 2017 and 31^st December, 2019 respectively. Your Committee observes that there was a serious collapse of control systems coupled with poor board supervision, and lack of consistent oversight both by the Central Bank and the Ministry of Finance and National Planning during the period under review.

Your Committee further perceives some collusion in the disbursement of funds. A case in point is where DBZ disbursed US$ 2.6 million to a supplier of equipment in China for a milling plant on behalf of Zambia Cooperative Federation, funds which may never be recovered.

Madam Speaker, this situation arose because the Development Bank of Zambia (DBZ) failed to disburse the entire loan amount to the supplier and subsequently, requested for a refund, which unfortunately the supplier refused to honour.

In light of the foregoing, the Committee recommends that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning should be proactive in ensuring that DBZ is audited annually by the Auditor-General as opposed to having a wholesale audit that is usually undertaken after a three year period. Your Committee further recommends that the Executive should ensure that all those who acquired funds from DBZ should pay back, failure to which the matters should be reported to the relevant government investigative wings for further action.

Madam Speaker, let me now briefly comment on the operations of the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF) and the Public Service Pensions Fund (PSPF). As you may already be aware, Chapter 256 of the National Pension Scheme Act No. 40 of 1996, as read with Act No 9 of 2000, brought into existence the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA). Your Committee learnt that the establishment of NAPSA has led to dwindling contributions to the older pension schemes, that is, LASF and PSPF which by design are not permitted to register new members. Your Committee observes that the two pension schemes have been unable to pay out retirement benefits as their inadequate dependency ratio has continued to plummet. In view of the foregoing, your Committee strongly urges the Government to ensure that pension reforms are expeditiously implemented.

Madam Speaker, the other issue that caught your Committee’s attention, is lack of adequate corporate governance systems and capacity in most parastatals and other statutory institutions. While appreciating the Acts of Parliament which prescribe appointment of Boards of Directors, your Committee is of the view that these Acts of Parliament have become a hindrance to ensuring that competent persons with requisite skills are appointed to the respective boards of state-owned enterprises.

Madam Speaker, in light of the above, your Committee strongly recommends that these laws should be amended to ensure that capacity, competence and relevant skills are factored into board appointments as opposed to only relying on recommendations of the associations and groupings provided by the establishing Acts. Furthermore, your Committee recommends that the process of constituting boards should be made open for people to apply, and that the vetting process of board appointments should include mechanisms that track the appointee’s performance record on other parastatals and other statutory institutions on which they may have previously served.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I wish to record your Committee’s indebtedness and gratitude to you, for according us the opportunity to serve on this important Committee. I also want to thank all stakeholders who made both written and oral submisions before your Committee. I further wish to recognise the role played in the proceedings by the Office of the Auditor-General, the Controller of Internal Audit and the Accountant-General without whose assistance the deliberations of your Committee could not have been successfully concluded.

Madam Speaker, finally, I also wish to place on record the gratitude of your Committee for your invaluable guidance throughout the deliberations, and to the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for their professionalism and support to your Committee.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Madam Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu): Now, Madam.

Madam Speaker, in supporting the report on Parastatal Bodies moved by the Chairperson, I would like to mention just about three issues that he has not spoken about. I will begin by talking about the failure to take the audit process seriously by parastatal bodies and most of the statutory entities or institutions in Zambia.

Madam Speaker, there is a growing tendency by the parastatal bodies and other entities to, most of the time, ignore what is being provided for in the Public Finance Management Act No. 1 of 2018, where parastatal bodies and other entities are supposed to provide information and documentation to the auditors when it is requested for. However, in most cases, the information, documents and payment vouchers are not provided. So, your Committee recommends that such entities should be prosecuted according to what is provided in the Public Finance Management Act No. 1 of 2018.

Madam Speaker, another issue that I want to talk about is the poor management of contracts. Parastatal bodies and other statutory institutions in this country have continued to ignore the provisions of the law and ignoring the provisions of the law contributes to the delay in the execution of projects. Consequently, when projects are delayed to be executed in real time, that also contributes to the increase in the cost of the projects.

Madam Speaker, another issue that I want to talk about is the cases taking too long. There have been instances when various Committees of this House have recommended for prosecution of the people who are not following procurement procedures in accordance with the Public Procurement Act No. 8 of 2020. So, the Committee is recommending that investigative wings should continue and endeavour to ensure that cases are dealt with in the shortest possible time so that Government monies can be save.

Madam Speaker, with these few comments, I second the Motion.

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to support the adoption of the Report of the Committee on Parastatal Bodies on the Report of the Auditor-General on the Accounts of Parastatal Bodies and other Statutory Institutions for the Financial Year Ended 31^st December, 2019.

Madam Speaker, let me begin by appreciation the mover of this Motion, my Colleague, Hon. Brain Kambita, Member of Parliament for Zambezi East and the seconder Hon. Anthony Kasandwe, Member of Parliament for Bangweulu.

Madam Speaker, this report is about the Auditor-General’s findings in the audit process on parastatal bodies and other institutions. In supporting this adoption process of this report, I would like to start by saying all parastatals and statutory institutions fall under ministries. Therefore, our hon. Colleagues; Minsters, have a huge responsibility to make sure that these co-operations act or transact their business in accordance with the provision of the law.

Madam Speaker, in fact, some of these parastatal bodies, actually fall directly under the President. All those bodies, which belong to the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC) fall directly under the watch of the President. Therefore, hon. Ministers and the President have a huge responsibility of ensuring that these parastatal bodies transact this business in line with the provided for legal environment.

Madam Speaker, when you hear of expressions such as collapse of internal control systems and collusion being used, it is leading. It is leading, it must be able to quickly lead the investigative wings to pounce on these expressions and quickly find out who those who have caused the collapse of internal controls are. Who is colluding in order to take advantage of public resources? When investigative wings begin to focus on such matters, even the political environment is going to be sanitised because as it is now, the focus is on political players, who are actually not sitting in these parastatals.

Madam, my big man there, the hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development can be in trouble for an act at the Road Development Agency (RDA). This is how people have been misinformed yet, the problem is with RDA, but people will be calling out the hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development. I, therefore, wish to tender my advice that now is the time for investigative wings to start focusing where the problems are.

Madam, your Committee has categorically stated–collusion at the Development Bank of Zambia (DBZ). It is not collusion at the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. Therefore, leave the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning alone and go to DBZ. That is where the problem is.

Madam Speaker, the other point I want to comment on is the issue raised on the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF), as well as the Public Service Pensions Fund (PSPF). Madam, these institutions have been killed by the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA). The Coming of NAPSA has destroyed these institutions. So, instead of our Executive politicking around that and saying, “No, you will start getting paid in the middle of your contributions”. The Executive should start talking about policy which will serve or integrate these institutions into the existing machinery so that the people who are serving at PSPF and LASF can have hope of being integrated in the perpetual machinery. The problem we have is politics. For me now, I have stopped politicking here. I want to talk about things which will help the people of Zambia. I do think that when you integrate these systems and promulgate policy that speaks to the people, then you are helping the country.

Madam Speaker, poor management of contracts, as was established by my other Colleague, is an important issue. The only authority to ensure this is the hon. Minister responsible for parastatals–the President, because he is responsible for the IDC and consequently, all parastatals that fall under the IDC.

Madam Speaker, I wish to support your Committee’s report, and I thank you.

Mr Mwila (Mufulira): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity given to the people of Mufulira to contribute to debate on this Motion. Let me also thank the mover of the Motion and the seconder and indeed, the entire Committee.

Madam Speaker, I also want to contribute to debate on this Motion by agreeing and making observations from the report, which I had an opportunity to go through. First of all, I will start with the findings that concern the Development Bank of Zambia (DBZ). As the previous speaker has said, I think the problem that we have with DBZ has more to do with management and the competence of the management that is at DBZ. There are examples in this report where, overall, and firstly, DBZ has struggled to get US$50 million credit line from the African Development Bank (AfDB). I am sure it is because the AfDB is not comfortable with the balance sheet. It is not comfortable with the security, if that credit line was advanced. Now, for me, I would think that DBZ management should have learnt something from why AfDB could not approve the credit line. It is because it went through the approval process and found it safe not to advance. Now, what we see is that DBZ itself has been giving out loans to promoters and companies locally which it has failed to recover. Instead of applying the same due diligence that AfDB applied on it, we see that, for example, US$2 million was given to CETZAM Financial Services and soon after that, the company goes into liquidation and that US$2 million is yet to be recovered. That for me, points to the fact that the competency of the management that is responsible to do its job as per job description is failing to do it.

Madam, I noticed the changes that were made at board level, but I am not sure if the same changes have been effected at management level to ensure that competent people are put in place to ensure that this institution does not go down. It is clearly struggling because it does not have the liquidity and where it sent the money, the companies are struggling to pay back. I think management restructuring is the way to go to ensure that the viability of this entity is restored.

Madam Speaker, let me also comment on the findings concerning the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA), and I will just focus on the debt stock that NAPSA has according to the report. Madam, it is very clear even in the report that the bulk of the debt stock that is sitting on the NAPSA books are the penalties arising from the 20 per cent penalty that it charges on outstanding contributions. Definitely, many employers have complained about how punitive this 20 per cent is. As long as this 20 per cent penalty is not addressed, NAPSA will continue to see a rise in the debt stock. If an employer is struggling to remit deductions for its employees, how is it even going to find the 20 per cent on top of the principle amount? Many employers have complained.

Madam, further, major institutions that owe NAPSA are Government related. The practice is that, these Government institutions do not deliberately choose not to remit deductions. It is because they are also waiting to be funded by the Government so that they can have the liquidity to give to NAPSA. Now, if the Government has not sent to these Government-related institutions, either their grant or funding, whatever arrangement it is, they will have no money to remit to NAPSA. So, the solution would be, where it is very clear that an institution does not have the money because the Government has not funded it–why should NAPSA go ahead and be so rigid and charge the 20 per cent on an institution which is incapacitated because the grant or the support from the Government has not been advanced? The bottom line is to address the National Pension Scheme Act, review the 20 per cent, and make it less punitive and allow employers to breathe and stick to recovering the principle amount. Otherwise, the debt stock will keep rising because the 20 per cent is too high for employers to bear.

Madam Speaker, let me also briefly comment on LASF. I have seen the submissions in this report advising that new members be allowed. However, this is an institution that we have seen has actuarial deficit and is struggling to even pay those that have retired. It will be very difficult without recapitalisation or without funding to attract new members into LASF.

Madam Speaker, there is one thing I have also seen in this report. In trying to recover the money that the local authorities owe, there is some agreement that LASF has been going into. In this report,it is being referred to as a land debt swap where, for example, a local authority owes LASF and they enter into an agreement and are given a piece of land.

Madam, in my view, that does not sort out the problem that LASF has because what it needs is the liquidity, the money. Now, if the local authority owes LASF money and then they enter into an agreement to give them a piece of land, what will that piece of land do to LASF? I think the people from the Executive who need to supervise or go through some of these agreements need to review this policy as it is not helping LASF. It remains in the same position and still do not have the money. Instead of the money being recovered from the local authority, LASF is given a piece of land and I am sure it has to start looking for someone to buy it. Clearly, this is not the way to go for an organisation that is in dire need of cash to ensure that it honours its obligations to the retirees.

Madam Speaker, with these comments, I support this report.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to debate the report on parastatal bodies. First and foremost, I want to state that I support the adoption of this report and I also want to take this opportunity to thank my Colleague, Hon. Kambita who was the mover, and also thank the seconder of this Motion.

Madam, a general overview of the performance of our parastatal organisations in this country clearly indicates that most challenges are arising from poor management. As long as we do not appoint people on merit in these state-owned enterprises, these reports from the Office ofthe Auditor-General shall continue to be highlighted year in year out. That is why I agree with your Committee when it states that appointments to the board, and I think including to management, must be purely on merit.

Madam Speaker, I rarely see adverts for chief executives and directors in these organisations. I have not seen any advert from Zamtel or ZESCO Ltd but you hear that chief executives have been appointed. Now, you wonder if these are the best people to run these state enterprises. I think we must run away from the United National Independence Party (UNIP) one-party state syndrome where the President appointed everyone. If these state-owned enterprises are to run purely as business entities, let us allow Zambians to compete for these positions and then we are going to find the best brains to run these parastatal companies.

Madam, I quickly want to talk about Indeni. Indeni plays a very critical role in the petroleum sub-sector in this country, but its performance has been marred with a number of challenges. We are struggling with the road infrastructure in this country. Putting up a tarred road has become extremely expensive, but here we have Indeni petroleum company which is able to produce bitumen. A bitumen plant was commissioned in 2014, and it first produced 359 metric tonnes in 2015 and also produced 1,600 metric tonnes in 2017.

Madam Speaker, however, the continuous running of this company has been hampered because of the lack of stock feed. I think it is important that the Ministry of Energy doubles its efforts and ensure that necessary stock feed is procured so that Indeni is able to produce bitumen which will be used in our road sector.

Madam, I am alive to the fact that huge sums of money were invested in Indeni to establish that bitumen plant, but it is almost a white elephant. It is a source of grave concern and I appeal to the hon. Minister of Energy to ensure that we find a way for the country to be able to produce bitumen as soon as possible. That way, road construction will be made cheaper.

Madam Speaker, I also want to talk about ZESCO Ltd. This is a state enterprise playing a very key role in the electricity sub-sector. I notice that your Committee stated that the cost of running the company is high. While it is suggesting that the company reduces costs and, at the same time, talking about tariffs being uneconomical, ZESCO Ltd has increased tariffs several times. In January, tariffs were increased by 113 per cent but to date, we are still talking about increasing electricity tariffs. I do not think that the challenges facing ZESCO Ltd today lie in increasing electricitytariffs.

Madam, if you look at what is happening today, you will see that we have a backlog of unconnected customers despite having paid for capital contributions. People are being retired almost on a weekly basis and it is very costly to retire someone at ZESCO Ltd. I was in the union there so I know the cost of retiring one employee. Where is the company getting the money to start paying retirement benefits for these people who are being retired in national interest on a weekly basis when, at the same time, ZESCO Ltd is talking about lack of resources to connect customers?

Madam, it is important that the board at ZESCO Ltd and the Ministry of Energy look at ways in which ZESCO Ltd can try by all means to reduce costs. I do not think this is the time to start retiring so many people and paying huge separation packages at the expense of service delivery.

Madam Speaker, we also notice that when we had a shortage of electricity, ZESCO Ltd was buying power at a higher cost from independent power producers while selling at a lower cost. Most of our hydro-power stations are situated in the Southern Province and this is an area which is drought prone. Why is it that we do not invest more resources in the Northern Circuit where we have abundant rainfall? I want to appeal to the Ministry of Energy that if we do, I think we would be able to address this issue of electricity shortages and drought. Zambia is best positioned as 40 per cent of the water bodies are here. I think that if the electricity sub-sector is fully exploited, it may become the main exporter and earn foreign exchange.

Madam, in conclusion, I think it is important that we promote private investment as it is critical. We have the Batoka Gorge, the private sector can come in and invest there instead of rushing to try and take over the operations of ZESCO Ltd. We want to appeal to the private sector that Zambia has potential sites for power generation and if they invested their money there, they would get good returns on their investment.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I do not see any ladies indicating. We are very few ladies. Please, ensure that all ladies sit in the House next time. We want to hear the voices of women also.

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, welcome back to Zambia and to the House.

Madam Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to speak on behalf of the people Mbabala Constituency and, indeed, on my own behalf. I thank the Committee on Parastatal Bodies in this case, the mover of the Motion, Hon. Kambita and his hon. Colleague from Bangweulu. I am glad that the report dealt with the subject ably by digging a lot into the issues at hand in as far as the terms of reference were concerned.

Madam Speaker, the whole essence of the parastatal bodies is to ensure that they provide benefits to all of us as a country. Parastatal bodies are expected to make a profit that is declared to the state and bring about public good in ensuring that, my people in Mbabala, for example, in Kabanze areas, who need a bridge, can receive that bridge simply because a parastatal body has made good business and has remitted good income to the state that allows that bridge to be put.

Parastatal bodies are supposed to help my people in Lubwalo to repair a school there. They are supposed to help my people in Kalindi to put a dip tank in Kalindi area so that our animals can enjoy quality life and we can increase our beef production in Mbabala Constituency. This can only happen if the parastatal bodies are doing their job diligently and with integrity.

Madam Speaker, we have seen in this report that the parastatal bodies that were audited lacked integrity mostly. They did not perform according to the plan. Instead, what we are seeing is collusion, mismanagement as well as failure to retire imprest in some instances. Those companies that were given some money to setup failed to develop. They could not grow because there was misuse of the funds, which were put into them, for them to grow; examples are many in this report. That shows that we never used the tools of good governance.

Madam, the tools of good governance, as outlined, here in Zambia, we have the Institute of Directors, to which I and many other hon. Colleague here, may have belonged to. They do train us on the King Code and many other ways which help us to ensure that these parastatal bodies and the Chief Executive Officers (CEOs) who are there and the people who are there can perform. However, what we saw is total failure, which calls for stringent management under the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC). No wonder it is like this. We saw that in the previous regime, these CEO had to be recruited on political lines.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munsanje: It was clear in the manifesto of our hon. Colleagues that for one to be appointed CEO, he/she had to be a member of the party. As a result of that, incompetents were employed. People who had no qualification and did not understand any good governance were employed to run these parastatals. Party membership was now the key. They were riding on being members of the party and not on the competence, qualifications and experiences of one in terms of having demonstrated to earn profit. The end result is the disaster we have seen.

Madam Speaker, therefore, the report is supposed to have recommended for continued action in terms of prosecution and continued investigation of those who failed to run the affairs of this country. Never should such characters be appointed to such positions again in their life because these are failures who have cost the people of Mbabala Constituency money which would have gone towards constructing bridges.

However, if we ban such people, it means we are going to be introducing only meritocracy. The IDC is managed and supervised by the President of the Republic of the country and the President has got hon. Ministers and everybody else whose eyes must be looking to see that only people who have demonstrated capacity to deliver profit to the country should find themselves on these boards and as CEOs of these companies. That way, we are going to promote meritocracy, which is going to bring results. That is what the Asian Tigers did. They set up these countries and ensured that those countries were performing according to set contracts and performance indicators. There must be performance indicators.

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, you cannot have a company –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, I refer to Standing Order No. 65, which states that the content of the debate should be relevant to the issue on the Floor of the House.

Interruptions

Mr Chilangwa: May I proceed, Madam Speaker?

Madam Speaker: Yes.

Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, the report is very clear. It is specific. If people do not read these reports, they should not stand and try to debate. They must be relevant. By talking about things which are outside this report, people are showing their irrelevance to the people listening out there. Zambians are not playing. Zambians are watching the Parliamentary debates throughout. So, those who tend to stand up and become irrelevant, like the current debater, must actually not be allowed to proceed.

Is he in order, Madam Speaker, to show his irrelevance in this fashion? I need your serious ruling.

Madam Speaker: Thank you, hon. Member. You have even debated your point of order. However, by way of guidance, let us remain relevant to the issues that have been raised in the report. Let us not try to raise political issues, which are going to just derail the debate. Hon. Member, continue as guided.

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, before I was disturbed, I was talking about the performance of various boards and that we need quality boards that are going to perform based on the competences of the people who are appointed to these boards.

Madam Speaker, such boards need to have people who have demonstrated experience like I mentioned, people who have demonstrated that they can make profit and they can declare profit because our interest, like I said in my preamble, is that we must fix those bridges in my constituency. These boards must make the money for us. They must be declaring profits every year.

Madam Speaker, if we are going to have irrelevant boards, incompetent boards and politicians like the one who raised a point of order against me, running boards, ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order!

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Madam.

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, such characters should never find themselves on the boards. Politicians who have no competence to run these companies competently must never find themselves on these boards and I am saying this because it was clear in the past because it was in the Constitution of the Ruling Party then. That is a fact and there is evidence to that effect.

Madam Speaker: Order hon. Member!

I have already given guidance on how you are supposed to debate. Let us remain relevant to the report. If that point is raised anywhere in the report, you can refer us to the page number so that we are speaking the same language. We do not want the debates to derail into a political fight. So, if it is not in the report, please desist from referring to that.

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, we have defiantly read the report and if the hon. Member has not read the report, he needs to go and find time to read. He can even go further to research because research is free.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, madam.

Madam Speaker: Order! It is ok he has concluded.

Mrs Sabao (Chikankata): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Chikankata an opportunity to add their voice to the debate on this important report on the Floor of the House. In support of this report, I commend your Committee for coming up with a good report.

Madam Speaker, I will focus my debate on page 73, which talks about the lack of strategic planning under the research institute. Strategic planning is very critical in an organisation. However, according to this report, we have institutions with no strategic planning or were using outdated strategic planning. This means that they had no target as institutions. This made these organisations not to know what they wanted and did not even motivate the workers because they had no target in their institutions. This gives us an idea that during the past regime, we had people who used these institutions as cash cows for themselves.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sabao: This was coming from the strategy which they had as a political party. They used an outdated rigging strategy, while us as the United Party for National Development (UPND) had a twenty-three years winning strategy. We won the election last year, and we will use the same strategy to make sure that these institutions have strategic planning in place.

Mr Kapyanga: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order! Order!

Hon. Member for Chikankata, let us stick to what the report says. Let us not bring in issues that are going to raise controversy because they will attract some reaction from the other side. Stick to what is in the report.

Mrs Sabao: Madam Speaker, if an organisation has strategic planning, it means that it has an annual plan it will concentrate on. In that annual plan, the organisation will have a target which it will work at achieving. However, if you look at this report, you will see that most of these organisations did not do that. Most of their strategic plans are outdated and as an organisation, there is no way you can make profit without a target.

Madam, in this country, parastatal companies are profit making organisations. This means that these are the main sources of income for this country. As we all may know, trade is the engine of development. Where there is no trade in a country, you do not expect the country to develop. This caused this country to lag and the main reason was the management that we had. Like the previous speaker said, the previous Government was appointing cadres as board members, cadres who did not have the knowledge of how to manage these institutions. Similarly, when it was appointing people to serve in management, it recruited people who did not have the qualifications to manage these organisations.

Mr Fube: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mrs Sabao: Madam Speaker, an institution like Zesco Ltd –

Madam Speaker: Order! Order!

Hon. Member for Chilubi, I have guided the hon. Member who is debating. I think she has taken note of the concerns and that is the same concern, I assume, you want to raise. So the hon. Member has been guided. Hon. Member for Chikankata, please proceed as previously guided.

Mrs Sabao: Madam Speaker, like I said, it appointed board members who were cadres, when board members are the main people who drive an organisation.

Mr Kapyanga: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order! Order!

Hon. Members, let us allow the hon. Member for Chikankata to debate as guided. Let us avoid politicising the debate. Let us stick to the relevant issues in the report. The point of appointing people who were not qualified has been taken.

Mrs Sabao: Madam Speaker, you can only improve if you learn from the past. Therefore, what we should know as the UPND Government is that as we are appointing board members, let us appoint people who are qualified. At the end of the day, they will also employ the people who are qualified to run and manage these institutions.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sabao: Madam, under the UPND Government, Zambians are lucky because our strategy is that when we employ, we will employ qualified people. This means that these institutions will be managed in the right direction and they will make profits for the Zambian people. At the end of the day, Zambia will be a good country for all Zambians, unlike what we saw in the past.

Mr Fube interjected.

Mrs Sabao: Madam Speaker, we have a strategy under the New Dawn Government whereby through the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC), we are going to have a strategy of making sure that all organisations have a strategic plan and an annual plan in place. This means that they will be monitored by the IDC, so that they do the right thing. When you are being monitored as an organisation, it means that you will work hard to reach the target that you have been given for that particular year, and the Zambian people will be happy.

Madam Speaker, under the New Dawn Government, we have a President who understands business because this is a country where you need to make a profit. Our President believes that for you to be rich, you need to have profit. This means that you have to plan in such a way that whatever you are doing as a country, there must be profit and that profit will go back to the poor people. This is the reason we even have free education at the moment. If you are not making profit, how do you have free education as a country? You can only have free education if you have enough resources in your reserves.

Madam Speaker, with these few remarks, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: From what I see, we are almost winding up debate. So, I will call on the hon. Minister for the Western Province to debate.

The Minister for Western Province (Mr Mbangweta): Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. Kambita and his hon. Colleagues for this good report they have rendered, which I support because it is factual.

Madam Speaker, even though some hon. Colleagues have this propensity to say we should not talk about the past, I think it is important, so that we appreciate where we are coming from.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbangweta: Madam Speaker, this report has got eleven observations and recommendations. Two of them reflect the difficult past we are coming from. The first one is about the lawlessness which was being promoted by the Government, as a result of which even the parastatal companies –

Mr Kampyongo: On a serious procedural point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, this meeting is for reports and when a report has been tabled, the only competent hon. Members of the Frontbench to respond to the report are those whose portfolio functions are related to the report. We have the superannuation fund and the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development is there. We need the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security and the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to respond to the issues raised in this report. This is not for politicking. Is the hon. Minister from the province responsible to stand on behalf of the Government and start responding to a report in the manner he is proceeding? This is your report and it is specific –

Hon. Government Members: It is a parliament report.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Mr Kampyongo: Is the hon. Member in order to short circuit the Frontbench, who –

Hon. Government Members: Which Standing Order?

Mr Kampyongo: We are teaching you.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, can we have some order.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, let our hon. Colleagues know that they are in Government now –

Madam Speaker: Order! Order!

Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, please resume your seat.

Let me just give guidance. The hon. Minister for Western Province is not winding up. He is debating just like any other hon. Member of the House. I believe hon. Ministers, regardless of which ministry, can also debate on a report. So, that is why I gave him the Floor and I enquired on which hon. Ministers are going to debate on behalf of the Government or to wind up debate rather and he is not one of them. He is just debating.

Mr Kampyongo interjected.

Madam Speaker: Yes, but he can also debate. Allow him to proceed.

Mr Mbangweta: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I was saying that parastatal companies in this report were not paying statutory obligations and your Committee said that this was a bad practice which should not be encouraged, which is correct. That is why even previously, there were difficulties to pay retirees because they were not contributing at the time they were working and this is what your Committee...

Mr Chitotela: On a point if order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I have not recognised the hon. Member for Pambashe.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister for Western Province proceed.

Mr Mbangweta: ... and it is talking about the need, in row No. 2 to appoint qualified board members, and the need for qualification is actually ably explained in the fact that the board members at the time they were allowed to run parastatals without strategic plans. They are allowed to run parastatals- some of them strategic and to have no audited accounts for a period of three years. If they understood their mandate, how can you allow a parastatal you are supervising to run for three years without a financial report? Who was stopping them? There was even a reference that these parastatals like the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC), is chaired by the President. So, what it means is that during that period, they should tell us what happened. At least the current Committee has appropriately indicated the route we should avoid if these parastatals are to bring public good.

Madam Speaker, for example IDC was formed to make sure that the parastatals under its supervision were to make profits not losses. If you are managing a company for three years, and you do know how it is performing, then what are you managing? This is the reason we should not go back to that kind of approach. The approach we should take is that of knowing what we are managing. We can do that if you are educated, you have the experience and if you have done it. This is what your Committee is recommending, that if you appoint somebody to a board, they must have a track record. This is what this country needs, not ignorance.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Madam, thank you very much and let me also thank the hon. Colleagues who presented this report, the hon. Member of Parliament for Zambezi and one who seconded, Hon. Kasandwe.

Madam Speaker, parliamentary Committees are the heart and soul of any parliament and it is in here where the doctrine of separation of powers is fully exercised by keeping each other accountable to the things that we do on behalf of those people who elected us. This report is very discouraging, this report is extremely negative, there is nothing to be proud about this report that the colleagues have delivered this afternoon. It is a mirror image of how the business and economic environment has been since 2019, or should I say 2017 because this report is a reflection of the Auditor-General’s findings for that period.

Madam Speaker, as we debate this, we must understand that we are locked into a period 2017 to 2019. What is prominent in this report about Development Bank of Zambia (DBZ) and the quasi government organisation that we learn about, is that there has been constant citing of financial accounting irregularities ranging from missing payment vouchers, unreimbursed funds, uncompetitive procurement, undelivered items, failure to procure plans, failure to submit annual reports and financial statements and failure to avail contracts which are all completely negative. Unretired accountable imprest is also negative. That is what is contained in your Committee’s report.

Madam Speaker, as we debate this, I think we must be looking into the future to see how we can remedy these ills together. This is not time to try and outdo one another based on which political divide you come from. The fact of the matter is that this period that was under scrutiny and I shudder to imagine what will come in 2020, which was a year that was preceding an election, this can only be equated or amounting to looting. How can there be an attraction to foreign direct investment with such a report? How can people bring money into an economy with such a report? It is true, and I mince no words of mine. It is true that when you look at the glossaries of the beneficiaries –

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Nkombo: When you look at the beneficiaries of these facilities, Madam Speaker –

Mr Kampyongo: Serious procedural point of order.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I rise on a serious procedural point of order. The hon. Minister responsible for Local Government and Rural Development is supposed to address specific issues in this report relating to the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF) which falls under his portfolio function. When responding, he is supposed to –

Mr Mufalali: Question!

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, am I protected?

Madam Speaker: Order hon. Members! Can we observe some order! Let us allow the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu to make his point. Proceed.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, our hon. Colleagues should take parliamentary business seriously. The hon. Minister is not even supposed to respond with copious notes. His response must go on record on this report on the Government policy; how he is going to address the issues raised in this report. This is how we respond to reports. Is the hon. Minister in order to respond and react to the report which is very clear and specific? He knows the issues related to his ministry.

I seek your serious your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, the hon. Minister has a right to respond. He is speaking on behalf of the Government. There are also some parastatals that are under his ministry. Hon. Members, we should avoid disrupting debate by raising and debating through points of order. Indicate that you want to debate and you will be recognised and you will make your point. When the other side is responding, please, let us allow them to respond. That is the nature of the debate. Points are raised, there is a response from the other side, and we conclude. So, the hon. Minister may proceed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Madam one of the most difficult things to do is detract my attention because my focus is on point. We run one Cabinet, and therefore, we run one Government and one country. So, the issues that affect the Local Authority Superannuation Fund (LASF) the Public Service Pension Fund (PSPF), Development Bank of Zambia (DBZ) affects the Government, they affect the whole country. So, allow me to just say that this is the time for deepest reflection on how we can do things better going forward. I was about to say you know the glossary of clients, say for DBZ tells you a story. They have got a flavour of political superstars, that tells you a story that even in terms of due diligence in arriving at who qualified to get a facility, had some political inclination, that is a fact of the matter.

Madam, I heard Hon. Mtayachalo talk about advertising jobs for utilities that are Government run like Zesco Ltd. He said we must advertise those positions in the newspapers. Come on, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. We look for our own competent people in order to outdo– and very soon, sooner than later, you will observe that these entities are going to start functioning in a businesslike manner.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mark my words because we are bring LASF back on board, which was–

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 17 00 hours.

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I will terminate my debate to attend to the issue of LASF. It is a fact that some time in the past, the country made a bad decision which saw the birth of the National Pension and Scheme Authority (NAPSA) and so, the demise of the Zambia National Pension Fund (ZNPF). As a result of that, the contributions to LASF became scanty and in certain cases, those contributions just stopped. In this period that we are dealing with, we did not see much go on in LASF. It was a shell and therefore, it is our determination as a New Dawn Government to revitalise LASF. We have already put mechanisms in place to ensure that LASF starts to fire in all cylinders and that is an undertaking that we have made as a Government.

With those few remarks, Madam Speaker, let me thank you most profusely for allowing me to debate this report and also thank the mover and the seconder once again.

I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

The Minister of Technology and Science (Mr Mutati): Madam Speaker, I would like to commend the Committee on Parastatal Bodies for the detailed and elaborate report that has been presented before this House.

Madam Speaker, the report has brought out important issues affecting the management and operations of parastatal bodies. Some of the challenges and recommendations as highlighted in the report are as follows:

      (a)    failure to pay statutory obligations and abrogation of the law by agreeing on separate times to pay;

Recommendations

The Committee strongly condemns this. It argues that the Secretary to the Treasury should ensure that the provisions of the law are adhered to.

Madam Speaker, the Committee may wish to note that the matter raised is of great concern to the Treasury. Interventions are being made to resolve the anomaly. The failure to pay the full statutory obligations such as pension contributions and tax obligations by most parastatal bodies and grant aided institutions is largely attributed to the large proportion of the wage bill which has proved to be unsustainable.

Madam Speaker, in the recent past, it was not uncommon of most boards of directors to effect wage adjustments which could not be managed by institutions. The Treasury is working to ensure that the wage adjustments are made within sustainable levels. The Industrial Development Corporation (IDC) is also providing an oversight role in the management of parastatals.

Madam Speaker, an initiative was made to give institutions a less onerous way of paying their tax obligations through time to pay agreement with the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA). This is in line with the provisions of the respective Principal Tax Acts which give powers to the Commissioner-General to enter into time to pay agreement with taxpayers.

      (a)   Under-funding of infrastructure development negatively 0.0112334 affecting student enrollment of

             Mulungushi University;

Recommendations

Government to sufficiently fund infrastructure projects to avoid negative impact on the growth of the university.

Status

Madam Speaker, the Committee may wish to note that the Treasury allocates funding to Ministries Provinces and Spending Agencies (MPSAs). The institution then has a responsibility of allocating resources within their funding ceilings towards respective programmes and projects. Your Committee may also wish to note that the recent underfunding by the Treasury has occurred due to several factors such as the country’s debt position and the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) Pandemic.

Madam Speaker, in this regard, the Treasury is working tirelessly to improve the nation’s macro-economic stability and debt sustainability. This will create the necessary fiscal space. This will increase the available resources and ensure that the education sector, amongst others is adequately funded.

Madam Speaker, the debt issue is accumulation of non-performing loans by financial institutions such as the Development Bank of Zambia (DBZ).

Recommendations

Government will implore the Bank of Zambia to take a more proactive approach in supervising the players in the financial sector and to ensure that the Basel laws is enforced to the latter.

Madam Speaker, according to the Fitchsolutions.com, the final Basel III framework will introduce …

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Bangweulu, please, can you desist from that conduct. It is not acceptable. May the hon. Minister proceed.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, according to the Fitchsolutions.com, the final Basel III framework will introduce a more granular approach to credit risk assessment. By 2023, banks will need to follow the new Standardised Credit Risk Assessment (SCRA) to calculate the risk weights for unrated bank exposures. Accessing the correct data, developing the necessary internal expertise and infrastructure will be crucial for compliance purposes. This will enable banks to benefit from reduced capital charges and an enhanced view of credit worthiness.

Madam Speaker, Ministry of Finance and National Planning has continued to collaborate with the Bank of Zambia, the Development Bank of Zambia (DBZ) and the National Savings and Credit Bank (NATSAVE) with the hope of restoring normal operations and ensuring that institutions are profitable again. Further, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning is working hand in hand with BoZ to ensure that all financial institutions under its portfolio adhere to these standards thereby reducing the levels of non-performing loans.

       (a)    laissez-faire attitude towards the audit process and continue flouting of public financial regulations and

               poor performance of parastatals.

Recommendations

Madam Speaker, the Committee strongly urges the Secretary to the Treasury to ensure that punitive measures are taken against officers found wanting.

Madam Speaker, the Public Finance Management Act No.1 of 2018 has provided sufficient provisions to deal with office holders who fail to provide adequate information to the Auditor-General. This is provided under Section 82 (1) (k) and Section 107 of the Public Finance Management Act No. 1 of 2018 and I quote:

“82. (1) A person commits an offence if that person, willfully and without lawful authority—

(k)        fails to provide any information that the Auditor-General, Accountant-General, Controller of Internal Audit or a person authorised by the Auditor-General, Accountant General or Controller of Internal Audit may reasonably require under this Act;

Further, under Section 107:

“A person who commits an offence under this Act for which a penalty is not specified is liable, on conviction, to a fine not exceeding five hundred thousand penalty points or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years, or to both.”

In this regard, Madam Speaker, the Treasury will engage the Auditor-General to report any officer who fails to provide the information during the audit process so that appropriate action is taken.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, in conclusion, my ministry takes note of the recommendations highlighted in the report. I would like to indicate that the Ministry of Finance is committed to resolving the challenges affecting parastatal bodies and to ensure that they return a profit to the Treasury.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you sincerely for giving me the opportunity to wind up debate. I thank all the hon. Members of the Back-Bench who debated on the Motion. I take cognisant of the fact that most of them highlighted the challenges that parastatals faced in terms of corporate governance and political influence that parastatals suffered. I would like to also recognise the submissions that have come from the Executive. In particular, the submission by the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development regarding the issue of LASF. I am elated by the fact that there is some work that has gone in already and the fact that that fund is now going to be revamped. However, we would like to submit as a Committee that the Executive must take interest in overhauling the entire pension system in the country.

Madam Speaker, I am also aware that reforms were initiated some time back and pieces need to be picked and put together to ensure that there is sanity in the pension schemes. I am also glad with the submission from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning by the hon. Minster of Science and Technology on behalf of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning citing various statutes that guide the auditors in auditing the accounts of public institutions like parastatal bodies and parastatal institutions. I am glad that the hon. Minister cited the issue of the Public Finance Management Act which gives clear guidance on how institutions finances are supposed to be managed.

However, Madam Speaker, I would like to also implore the hon. Minister to take keen interest in the control environment in these parastatal institutions. As much as we have control of internal audits present in Government institutions especially line ministries, we do not seem to have similar institutions in parastatal bodies thereby exposing those institutions to internal control challenges. This has culminated in a situation where parastatal bodies have either not prepared audited financial statements or have several financial flaws that have been cited by the Auditor-General.

Madam Speaker, one other aspect that came up from the submission of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is the issue to do with the Government helping out in terms of payments of statutory obligations to the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA). I would like to submit to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning that the practice is actually an organised anomaly because somehow, there is denial of the operating or working capital that institutions require. The debt swap arrangements and the like are actually affecting these institutions. If a parastatal is supposed to get some funding from the Government, it should receive funding from the Treasury according to plans and the Budget. When that does not happen the way it is supposed to, the parastatals and many Government institutions end up suffering and meeting net payments while remaining with outstanding amounts in as far as statutory obligations are concerned thereby showing us that it is actually a vicious cycle. The Government must fund these institutions as budgeted and they would be able to meet their obligations as and when they are supposed to.

Madam Speaker, I thank everyone who participated in supporting the Motion to adopt the report of your Committee on Parastatal Bodies. With those few remarks, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa conversed with Mr Kafwaya.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members. If we have to consult, let us consult quietly.

Question put and agreed to..

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT ASSURANCES

Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Government Assurances, for the First Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on Tuesday, 31^st May, 2022.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Nkulukusa (Katuba): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Kambita stood up to leave the Chamber.

Hon. PF Members: Order, order!

Mr Kambita stopped.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Zambezi West, I know you have finished your business, but we still have some more business to transact. So, just bear with us. Can you take your seat, please.

Mr Kambita resumed his seat.

Mr Kamondo: Madam Speaker, the Committee, in performing its duties, was guided by its terms of reference as set out in the Standing Orders. During this Session, your Committee considered fifteen new assurances and one hundred and eighty outstanding assurances.

Madam Speaker, your Committee’s observations and recommendations on the various assurances which were probed are documented in the Committee’s report. I will, therefore, only highlight a few of the assurances which were a mere sample of the bigger picture, relating to assurances made on the Floor of this House.

Madam Speaker, allow me to start by stating that, generally, your Committee observes with disappointment that assurances made on the Floor of the House, are not backed by financial provisions and because of this, most of the projects have stalled due to financial constraints.

Madam Speaker, by way of example, allow me to refer to some specific assurances made on the Floor of the House on 3^rd March, 2017, by the hon. Minister of General Education. The hon. Minister made an assurance that the Government had plans to refurbish the laboratory at Mufumbwe Day Secondary School in Mufumbwe District, to replace the one which was gutted by fire. He stated that plans to carry out the refurbishment were expected to be implemented in 2017.

Madam Speaker, in April 2022, your Committee undertook a site visit to Mufumbwe Day Secondary School in Mufumbwe District. Your Committee notes, with displeasure, that despite the assurance in 2017 to refurbish the laboratory at Mufumbwe Day Secondary School, nothing has been done to date due to financial constraints. This has negatively affected both teachers and learners, as subjects which are supposed to be undertaken in a laboratory are being undertaken in classrooms, compromising the quality of education. Your Committee therefore, strongly urges the Government to immediately secure funds for the refurbishment of the laboratory so as not to continue disadvantaging the learners.

Madam Speaker, allow me now to draw the attention of the House to another assurance your Committee dealt with. Friday, 22nd February, 2013, His Honour the Vice-President the, made an assurance on the Fllor of the House that the construction of Chalimbana, Mukuba and Kwame Nkurumah universities was going on well. He further stated that the universities would open immediatly.

Madam Speaker, during its interactions with stakeholders, your Committee learnt with disappointment that progress at these universities stood at 40 and 50 per cent respectively, while Chalimbana was at 30 per cent completion, nine years after the assurance was made on the Floor of the House.

Madam Speaker, your Committee, in April 2022, undertook an on the spot check of the construction of Mukuba University. Your Committee learnt with disappointment that despite Mukuba University being the first Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics (STEM) University in the country, it had no adequate laboratories. Your Committee also learnt that the construction of the laboratory and classroom blocks had stalled at 25 per cent due to financial constraints. Your Committee further learnt with sadness that the school was only able to accommodate 800 out of the 1,500 students enrolled at the school due to limited accommodation arising from stalled works.

Madam Speaker, your Committee therefore, strongly urges the Government to immediately secure funds for the completion of Phase II of the project to avoid additional costs, as reinforcement metal bars are being cut by vandals.

Madam Speaker, lastly, allow me to comment on an assurance made by the hon. Minister of Health on Tuesday, 19^th April, 2016, that the construction of 650 rural health posts were expected to be completed by October 2016.

Madam Speaker, during its interactions with stakeholders, your Committee learnt that out of the eighty-eight health posts earmarked to be constructed on the Copperbelt Province under the 650 health posts project, eighty-four were completed in April 2022. Your Committee undertook an on the spot check of some health posts in Kamfinsa Constituency and found that one of the health posts was completed but it is not operational. Your Committee is saddened to report that the ceiling of the clinic and staff house is already falling apart as a result of leaking roofs due to poor workmanship.

Madam Speaker, your Committee, therefore, urges the Government to ensure that there is close supervision on projects being undertaken countrywide. It was established during the tours that lack of supervision was a major contributor to poor workmanship. Further, your Committee recommends that the district building officers should be involved in the supervision of the projects in their areas.

Madam Speaker, as reported in your Committee’s report, there is a huge number of unfulfilled assurances, a situation your Committee finds unacceptable. The Government does not appear to take assurances made on the Floor of this House so seriously which render the assurances purely academic.

Madam Speaker, your Committee insists that the Government should only make assurances to the House where it has capacity to fully implement them. Making assurances which are not implementable is a sign of total disregard to the House.  In fact, it amounts to misleading the House and should be not accepted or tolerated further.

Madam Speaker, your Committee recommends that where an assurance cannot be fulfilled on account of change of policy, the Leader of Government Business in the House should ensure that the House is notified through an appropriate statement on the Floor of the House by the concerned hon. Minister in a timely manner. This is in order to avert a situation where your Committee continues to pursue the implementation of such an assurance.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I thank you most sincerely, on behalf of all hon. Members of the Committee, for having accorded us the opportunity to serve on this Committee. Further, I take this opportunity to thank all the hon. Members of the Committee for the commitment they exhibited towards the work of the Committee. I also thank the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for their unwavering support to your Committee during its deliberations this session.

Madam Speaker, lastly, but not the least, I wish to pay tribute to all Permanent Secretaries (PSs) and their officers who made both oral and written submissions to your Committee during this session.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Interjections

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment, can we have your ears.

Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Nkulukusa: Now, Madam Speaker.

Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to second the Motion moved by the Chairperson for the Committee on Government Assurances, the Member of Parliament for Mufumbwe, Hon. Kamondo.

Madam Speaker, let me also thank the hon. Colleagues who joined us on the tour of duty, who are the hon. Members of Parliament on the Committee and what they exhibited during that tour of duty.

Madam, my seconding of this Motion is purely based on three pillars that formed the pinnacle of this report. Pillar number one is one which looks at the wastage that we experienced in Government resources for projects that were either abandoned or done at 50 per cent or at 80 per cent and they have never been completed over the years. It was discovered that such wastage took away the few resources that the Government puts in the Budget for the country to move forward and reposition itself in its economic agenda. If you calculated the wastage, you will realise that it amounts to over 30 percent, either because the incomplete buildings have been vandalised or other things have happened and when you start to rebuild whatever you left, you would have to start all over again.

Madam Speaker, the second pillar of my speech is the opportunity you gave us to go and learn from the Republic of Rwanda to learn how the Government is implementing Information Communication Technology (ICT) programmes in its primary and secondary education. This is because the introduction of ICT programmes in primary and secondary education is one of the assurances that the Government made in this country to enable and facilitate for the competitiveness of the economy in order to make ICT an enabler of economic development.

Madam Speaker, what we learnt in Rwanda was that the prioritisation of ICT in primary and secondary education finally brings an economy or a country to a state of a knowledgable economy. That helps to build competiveness for a country that steers economic development. As we toured many facilities in Rwanda, we discovered how much ICT is enabling the growth of the economy, regardless of the sector. We discovered that ICT was not only taught as a subject but also as a programme from all corners of the education framework in order to create the 21^st century citizen who is ICT-driven and can build an economy using ICT as a platform for competitive advantage.

Madam Speaker, what was most interesting was to learn how our colleagues attracted such ICT infrastructure and investment into the country. First of all, they lifted all taxes on ICT equipment that goes into primary and secondary education and put a little bit of some tax for ICT equipment that goes into tertiary education. This enabled the primary and secondary education system to attract many ICT investment into schools and built the twenty-first century pupil and student.

They further attracted a company that started manufacturing and assembling ICT products, more especially laptops for schools in ensuring that they achieve their 2022 objective, which is one-child-one-laptop in each class.

Madam Speaker, let me move to the last point where we learnt how Government Assurances are implemented in the Republic of Rwanda. We learnt that they followed five stages. For them, when the Government or an hon. Minister makes an assurance on the Floor of The House, it is serious business. So, they follow five stages that we felt could, maybe, be of relevance to our country as well. We learnt something since this was a benchmarking trip to ensure that if implemented, it can help build this economy which we are calling the knowledge hub economy.

Madam Speaker, the first stage is what they call Oral Questioning. They will question whether the implementation of the assurance is going on well or not. The second stage is what they call Written Questioning, and they move to the third, which they call th Committee Hearing and the fourth which they call Enquiry of Committee.

Madam Speaker, what is amazing is the firth level, where if an assurance is not implemented, it goes to the firfh level of a vote of no confidence. We discovered that this channel made everybody who made an assurance on the Floor of the House to ensure that that assurance was delivered.

Madam Speaker, we want to assure this Government that in ICT and the implementation of assurances, if we all put efforts together and build the 21^st century citizen, then we are going to be competitive in the midst of economies that are competing with us and build a lasting economy.

With these few words, Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion on the Report of the Committee on Government Assurances.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to comment on the Report of the Committee on Government Assurances. I support your Committee’s report. As a Member of Parliament from Luapula Province, I took interest in this report and I came across a very interesting subject, which is dear to my heart and to the hearts of many people from Luapula. This is a matter in connection with the Government assurance on the Frederick Titus Jacob (FTJ) Chiluba University and Mpanta University in Luapula Province, on page thirty-nine of the report.

Madam Speaker, I want to hear from the Government what happened, –if you allow me to quote from the report, it says here that after serious interrogation by your Committee, there is a response from the Executive. That is your Committee’s observation and the Executive’s response in relation to the construction of the FTJ University. The Government made this assurance regarding the construction of the FTJ University in October, 2019. It was planned that FTJ University, together with the university to be constructed in Lukashya Constituency, in Kasama was to cost US$225. The report, therefore, reads as follows:

“The previous Committee in noting the submission had expressed concern at the slow pace at which the construction of the two universities was going and had urged the Executive to ensure that funds were secured to facilitate the urgent commencement of works to avoid accumulation of standing costs. The Committee had resolved to await a comprehensive progress report on the matter.”

Madam Speaker, what is worrying is that, this is a 21^st May, 2022 report, and this is the response from the Executive.

“In its update to the Committee, the Executive submitted that the construction of the Fredrick Titus Jacob Chiluba University in Mansa, Luapula and Kasama, Northern provinces, had not recorded any significant progress since the last report due to continued fiscal constraints affecting the projects. Austerity measures introduced by the Government in 2018 also affected the projects, as did the policy directive to prioritise projects that were already at 80 per cent and above complete”.

Madam Speaker, I am concerned about this university, because we heard in the media that–I hope as the Minister of Finance and National Planning will be responding, he will make a clarion call over these concerns because to date, your Committee has not received the report on why the purported US$33 million was paid. I may sound speculative. Was it for the design, the feasibility study done by the contractor, or was it mobilisation fees paid to the contractor? If you check the report, you will see that it clearly states that even the structures that the people of Luapula are able to see there are as a result of the commitment on the part of the contractor.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Chitotela: Here is the report by the Executive.

I want to read the rest.Under Committee’s observation and recommendation, your Committee in noting the submission expressed concern over the tendency by the Executive to make assurances on the Floor of the House when funding is not certain. In this regard, the Committee urges the Executive to ensure that assurances are made on the Floor of the House where funding is certain and the implementation should be promised on the Floor of the House, failure to which the oversight role of Parliament will be rendered ineffective. The Committee resolved to await a comprehensive progress report on the construction of the two universities.

Madam, as a Member of Parliament from Luapula Province, I am concerned and I know a many people from Luapula are concerned because just two or three weeks ago, as I stated, the public was awash with statements of money being released. We, the people of Luapula Province were wondering what we have done that we do not deserve a university, but here is the Executive response. It has deliberately failed to provide the response on why that money was released. Was that paid to the contractor? We want to know and the people of Luapula Province want to know.

Madam Speaker, the Government is a perpetual succession. I believe that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, my uncle Hon. Dr Situmbeko Musokotwane, will be able to give the correct position on this matter so that the people of Zambia and the people of Luapula Province will be able to know. This is a serious Government assurance given on the Floor of this House, where we come to make the Executive accountable. The people of the Northern Province, Ntumpa University and the people of Luapula Province, FTJ University, must be able to know.

Madam, we have noted the response by the hon. Minister of Education who has given their position, but in terms of the release of funding, it came from the Executive under the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. So, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning must be able to provide more clarity.

Madam Speaker, your Committee was unable to close this matter because the Executive did not provide a comprehensive response regarding these two universities. Therefore, this report is difficult for me, although I am supporting its adoption, because the Executive has not answered that question.

Madam, as one of the fifteen Members of Parliament from Luapula and the Northern provinces, we are concerned. We want to know. We want to assure the Executive that if it is proven that there is anyone who has done any wrong to the people of Luapula Province, we will stand with them and support them, but we need clear answers. We need the truth. What was that US$33 million paid for? Was it for design, consultancy or construction? Why did Exim Bank of China not release their counterpart funding so that these two universities can be constructed? Those are the questions the people of Luapula are asking. Those are the questions the people of the Northern Province would want answers to.

Madam Speaker, with these lamentations and concerns because of the failure by the Executive to provide a comprehensive response to these two matters, I submit.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for this opportunity to add my voice to debate on this report. Firstly, I wish to commend the mover and seconder of the Motion for this well delivered report.

Madam, it is very clear from the report that there are a number of unfulfilled assurances on account of a number of reasons, including funding and Government policy. I am persuaded by the argument that was advanced by the seconder of this Motion that we could learn from our friends in Rwanda when it comes to Government assurances because, otherwise, it becomes an academic exercise where year in and year out, there is a Government assurance on the Floor of the House and we keep on reading these reports. It becomes like a circus. I think other measures must be taken to ensure that once there is Government assurance on the Floor of the House, everybody works towards ensuring that those particular assurances are indeed implemented.

Madam Speaker, I also note, in agreement with my colleague from Pambashe, that in some cases the information that was provided is very scanty. As a nation, we were all alarmed by the issue of the two universities, being FTJ University and Ntumpa University, where colossal sums of money were said to have been paid. The whole country was convinced that some people through some inappropriate means acquired this money at the expense of the many suffering Zambians. I believe that this report, in a way, settles that argument and puts it to rest, but we would have been happier if that report went to provide further information.

Madam, the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development is aware of the different types of contracts that are entered into. Some contracts could be Design and Build, where a contractor is asked to provide a design apart from the actual construction. In that case, payments are made towards the design just like payments are also made towards construction. What was worrying us was that if at all we had gotten to a level where the Government could be exposed to a point of paying US$33 million without obtaining bonds from contractors, then as a country we are running the risk of depleting the Treasury.

Madam Speaker, as far as we are concerned, there was no time when the Government ever suspended systems or, indeed, these procurement rules. As far as we are concerned, this information that we have, the same information that the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development has, is that for a contractor to obtain money by way of advance from the Government, he provides an advance payment bond or a bank guarantee. At the same time, a contractor provides a performance bond. So, these two bonds ensure that the Government is not exposed in anyway. At a point when there is a failure in performance, the Government, being the client, simply cashes the bond. If at all a contractor got an advance payment and runs away, as was portrayed in this particular case, all the Government needed to do was to cash the bond and get the money. That is how these contracts are managed.

Madam, we have been in this industry for over twenty-five years and there is no time, no matter how small a payment is, the Government is not secure. However, as I said, we would have been happier if the Government had provided more information about the nature of the contract that was entered into at Ntumpa and FTJ University. However, from the information we are getting from the latest information on the report, it is very clear that the Government has been very economical in giving information to the people such that people have been able to make very uninformed judgments on that particular point.

Madam Speaker, going forward, we are hoping that the Government will take stock of all these incomplete projects so that when the Minister of Finance and National Planning is assembling his Budget for 2023, he takes into account these incomplete projects.

Madam, the seconder of the Motion lamented that there was a lot of wastage on account of these incomplete projects. Going forward, we all know that part of the unfulfilled assurances were on account of the change of policy where the then Government decided that due to financial constraints, it could only focus on projects that were 80 per cent and above, meaning those that were at 70 per cent and below were left unattended to.

Madam Speaker, in the name of prudent use of resources, when the Government is budgeting or coming up with the next Budget, it must take stock of these projects so that it begins to complete them. That way, we should be able to save on the wastage that was reported in these reports.

Madam, further, we also want to urge the Government to focus on some of these economic projects, like the Simon Mwansa Kapwepwe International Airport (SMKIA) in Ndola and the Kenneth Kaunda Kaunda International Airport (KKIA) in Lusaka. The reason we came up with these state-of-the-art airports as the Government then was to create a transport hub in this particular region. We have to ensure that in cases where there are parts of these projects that are not completed, they are given priority. Once you give priority to these projects, they will begin to payback because then, we can position ourselves as a country and a transport hub for this particular region.

So, we urge the Ministry of Finance and National Planning with other relevant ministries connected to this infrastructure to quickly take it up so that we can begin to reap benefits from these projects.

Madam Speaker, with those few remarks, I support this Motion.

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Thank you kind Madam Speaker for giving the good people of Lumezi an opportunity to give their opinion on this report.

Madam Speaker, as much as the good people of Lumezi have permitted me to support this Motion, your Committee should have gone a little bit further to propose that our hon. Colleagues who are privileged to be on the Executive side of the Government, should be cited for contempt of the House when they come and make assurances which they cannot implement.

Madam Speaker, permit the good people of Lumezi to mention that, if we are to adopt this report, the way it is, most of those serving in the current administration and the previous administration would have been cited for contempt of the House. A lot of lies are what people who are privileged –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Lumezi, please withdraw the word lies and also be relevant. Refer to the report.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, thank you for your guidance. Permit me to withdraw the word lies and replace it with falsehood and permit me to take this House to page 80 where Lumezi has been mentioned in that report; the sinking of boreholes.

Madam Speaker, if, indeed, the hon. Minister then made such an assurance and the boreholes have not been sunk from 2016 and this is 2022, in Lumezi, – just at the bottom of the report, Lumezi is mentioned and the hon. Minister then said the contractor was sinking boreholes in different districts and had not yet reached Lumezi.

Madam Speaker, if you go to the Executive’s response, you will note that it is stated that the Committee resolves to await a progress report on the matter. Honestly, we are discussing a report yet this Committee is waiting for a report from the Executive. That is falsehood.

Madam Speaker, progressively speaking, we should have, in our Standing Orders, since that is what we rely on to manage people who spread falsehood, they should be cited for contempt.

Madam Speaker, the report says the growing tendency by the Executive of making assurances on the Floor of the House when funds are not available is trivialising issues in here. What the Zambian people are now learning, because we are now dealing with a well informed citizenry, is that individuals will come here and play politics at the expenses of serving the interest of the people we lead. It is not individuals to maintain their positions of being hon. Ministers to come and tell lies for political expediency.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Lumezi, you have been told not to use words such as lies it is unparliamentarily, please use a better word.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, sorry, you know this language is alien to some of us.

Madam Speaker, we are getting to a stage where citizens think that maybe we are here to preach falsehoods. The report should have gone a bit further or a little bit to state that anyone making assurances on behalf of the Government will be cited for contempt of the House or be arrested for lying or for spreading falsehood. Sorry, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I know we are a fusion Parliament, it is possible that tomorrow, I could occupy a ministerial position on behalf of Hon. Milupi, on behalf of Hon. Haimbe. I should be able to be cited –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, resume your seat. Please avoid debating other hon. Members. stick to the report and you have sufficient time to debate. Do not bring in other hon. Members into your debate.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, thank you for your guidance. I am making these submissions so that we move on the same page, that in an event that I am the one to make Government assurances, I should know what it takes to tell lies – to spread falsehoods using the Floor of the House.

Madam Speaker, from 2016, to date, it is more than five years. Ordinarily, we should have been taking on whoever made those assurances that Lumezi would receive sixteen boreholes, for either contempt of the House or prosecuting them before the courts of law. If we ignore this component, the report will prove to the Zambian people that our hon. Colleagues in the Executive; the current Executive and the previous Executive, were indeed cut from the same umbilical cord.

Madam Speaker, what was wrong previously should be wrong today and what was right then should be right now.

Madam, with these few remarks from the good people of Lumezi, I submit.

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Madam Speaker, I thank you for this time to speak on the Report of the Committee on Government Assurances.

Madam Speaker, I support this Motion. To start with, the mover, has just told us and the country at large that 180 assurances are pending, those are old ones. Fifteen new ones are also pending, meaning the new Executive of the New Dawn is inheriting 180 old assurances not fulfilled. They have to learn. There is the urge to say, let the new Executive learn. Yes, it must learn from the mistakes of the previous Executive and take caution. I have just heard, again in the report, that there is no money for universities. So, the Executive should say, we need to first find money. Why do we have all these assurances unfulfilled in the midst of a huge debt?

We borrowed enough, but where did we take the money that we borrowed? How come today we still have 180 plus fifteen or 195 unfulfilled promises? An assurance is a promise, but it depends on the Government or maybe the person who makes the assurance to take caution. Coming to the home situation in Mitete, when you propose and you do it with the right assurances, the marriage will last. When you propose and you do not do it with the right assurances, the marriage will not last.

Madam Speaker, according to page 10 of the report, there was an assurance for the Luanginga Bridge in June, 2021. The New Dawn Government has inherited that matter. We would like to see to it that the assurance for the Luanginga Bridge is at least fulfilled in 2022 or 2023. I hope the hon. Ministers are listening. The benchmarking to Rwanda has given yet another good reason, which is item number five; the vote of no confidence. I should think it does happen in Zambia and last year, we witnessed the vote of no confidence. It is because of these 195 assurances. Where are the universities, boreholes for Lumezi and bridges? Where is the Katunda/Lukulu/Watopa/Mumbezhi Road? It is amongst the 180 promises made on the Floor of this House for ten years.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: Now the responsibility has gone to the New Dawn Government and it has to take caution. It has to learn from the mistakes of the past and not to fall in the same trap. Do not promise when the money is not there. If the money is not there, just say something will be done when money is made available. Make mention of it. Do not shy away from doing that. Tell the nation by way of building the economy to make the money available and then start executing on the assurances. That is a caution to the New Dawn Government to take a leaf from the immediate past Executive which, like in Rwanda, faced a vote of no confidence.

Madam Speaker, with those few remarks, I only wish and hope the Mitete District Civic Centre, boma, will take shape. To-date, there is literary nothing. We saw a lot of just going to break ground, laying a foundation and so on. You just do not do that. We would love to see the Katunda/Lukulu/Watopa/Mumbezhi Road worked on, together with the Luanginga Bridge.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, I would like, from the onset, to thank the mover and seconder of the Motion. I was going through this report and it gives lessons to both sides of the House. I will be very sober in my debate.

Madam Speaker, I draw your attention to page 98 and 99, which talk about the King Lewanika University. In that report, it says the King Lewanika University, according to the Executive, is at 10 per cent and was supposed to take three years to complete. I do not know if the 10 per cent was maybe, part of the signing of the contract because there is no King Lewanika University. It is just a bush. So, maybe, this 10 per cent includes negotiations and so forth.

Madam Speaker, this puts deep scars because the worst thing a Government can do is to betray its citizens by promising and failing to deliver. That is why when Governments are elected, they must stop campaigning. Looking at these 180 promises, the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government must take a leaf from the Patriotic Front (PF) Government.

When a government is elected, it is elected to deliver development and not to be re-elected. That is why when a government is elected, it must prioritise its agenda and stop promising, “We will do. We will do”. No, no, deliver development. This ‘we will do’ is still ‘we will do’ with the King Lewanika University. There is no King Lewanika University in the Western Province. Today, the report recommends the correct thing which the Government must take a leaf from. If resources are not there, do not commit. It is as simple as that because the people we promise will hold us to account.

Madam Speaker, I draw your attention to the fish cages on page 101, promised by the then hon. Minister of Finance in 2017. Of course, some of these have been delivered and when you look at Nalolo Constituency, they are talking of twenty-six fish cages; thirteen in Marana and thirteen at Kaungalueti. Well, the promise was made in 2017, and of course, on a different note, I would like to report that for Nalolo, we have the twenty-six as they were delivered three years after the promise.

Madam Speaker, I take into deep cognisance the report and the benchmarking learnt from Rwanda that if hon. Members of the Executive cannot deliver a promise, they must certainly come back to the House to say that they cannot deliver because they have or they do not have any fiscal space. The issue of promising and you keep quiet, saying no, no, is what brings us to this place.

Madam Speaker, when you hear the debate of the hon. Members, you will find out that out of these assurances, the biggest motivator of making these assurances is the lack of separation from politics and development. It is time this country moved to understand that governance and politics are two different things.

Madam Speaker, under your leadership, the National Assembly has an opportunity to hold the Executive more accountable for these promises. I would, therefore, support this report and its recommendations, so that in Governments delivering development, our hon. Colleagues must be sincere on the Floor of the House and must be able to come back to explain why those promises are not being honoured.

Madam Speaker, in summary, I would like to unreservedly support the adoption of this report and I congratulate the hon. Members who sat in this Committee. This report is excellent. We only hope that the recommendations will be implemented.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: More Hon. Members have indicated to speak but on account of time, we need to make progress. I will therefore call in the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development to provide some responses.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to contribute to debate on this Motion. I also thank the Mover of this Motion; Hon. Kamondo from Mufumbwe and the seconder, Hon. Nkulukusa from Katuba Constituency.

Madam, therein lies what we as the New Dawn Administration keep bringing to this House. Sometimes, we get blamed, we get to be asked a number of questions, especially on infrastructure, whether it is schools, roads and bridges, and time after time, being mindful of the responsibility of the Government when it makes statements on the Floor of this House and also being mindful of the state of our economy; the lack of funds and resources, we answer questions by saying, ‘when funds are available.’ We do get negative reactions from those on your left, but that is precisely to ensure that we do not fall in the same trap that our hon. Colleagues fell in.

Mr Kafwaya: Handle it, you are now in charge.

Eng. Milupi: Hon. Member for Lunte, you are an educated person. I am sure you know what I am talking about.

Madam Speaker, I wish to agree with the reports, however, over the past years, the Government has made assurances on the Floor of the House that have remained unfulfilled. It is sad to note that some assurances are more than ten years old as noted by your Committee. While some assurances have not been fully achieved, in some cases, progress has been registered towards actualising assurances.

Madam Speaker, in the area of infrastructure development, many of the assurances that remain outstanding are due to the fiscal constraints faced by the Government due to over-commitments by the previous Government. It is general knowledge that our hon. Colleagues; the Patriotic Front (PF) over-committed the country in the road sector and other infrastructure development without a clear plan on how those projects were going to be financed. Projects were started without confirmation of funds or a clear financing mechanism that would see to it that once the projects were started, money would be available to complete and operationalise the infrastructure.

Madam Speaker, it is, indeed, a sad situation to travel round the country, as I have done, and see many unfinished schools, roads, hospitals and other public infrastructure. It is, indeed, frustrating for many hon. Members of Parliament to receive assurance after assurance and not get the project delivered. It is unacceptable for our people; women and children, to see unfinished projects year in year out and they fail to receive the much needed services due to failure to complete projects.

Madam Speaker, the issue of outstanding Government assurances will be addressed once we fix the economy. That is the starting point. It is the only assured way as our country will be able to generate its own revenues to pay its debt and finance its development agenda. The level of indebtedness inherited by the New Dawn Administration of His Excellency, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, President of the Republic of Zambia, posses a great challenge to addressing the many outstanding Government assurances in infrastructure from the previous administration. As Government, we have set fixing the economy and dismantling the crippling debt as our priority. This will eventually help unlock resources to complete the many projects. We must be ready to make bold and difficult decisions, Madam Speaker. That is why the New Dawn Administration in the area of infrastructure development.

Madam, rather than promise that I have heard from the other side for instance, the hon. Member for Nalolo and so on, advising that we should separate politics from development is in a way correct. It is very easy for hon. Ministers in this administration to stand up and make promise after promise and sign contract after contracts in the hope that will make us popular, but in actuality, it drives the economy down. So, when we stand here and analyse project after project and state what we are doing to actualise the developmental agenda, it is not because we do not want to be popular, it is because we want to be realistic and responsible so that future Committees or future reports of Government Assurance will have less Government Assurances that have not been fulfilled.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the number, 180, that is in this report plus fifteen which is 195 is a disgrace to the governance of a parliamentary democratic country like ourselves. We ought to take coming to this House seriously and we have to take running Government seriously.  When we embark on a project, we have to have funds.

Madam, we appear to have been a bit slow and the reason for is the recognition that we have to build up resources and make sure we bring down the debts so that we can borrow, borrow at concessional interest rates and make sure that we build the economy so that we have more money in the Treasury to undertake these projects. Until such time, the answer to many questions that will be raised on the Floor of this House will continue to be when resources are available. We are trying to shift as many infrastructure projects as possible to the public-private partnership (PPP) model because once we are able to sign as we are going to in the very near future, the money to do those projects will not be from the Treasury or from loans, but will be an investment coming in hence, there is that focus.

Madam Speaker, we are also focusing on linking our country to our neighbours so that we can increase trade because that trade will help build up resources in Treasury so that we can do a lot more projects.

Madam Speaker, your report on Government Assurances is a big lesson to us to continue to do the right things as we have done in the last nine months. It is also a big lesson to the previous administration. What we want from them is to admit that things did not go too well and that is why we still have reports like this.

With those words, Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Technology and Science (Mr Mutati): Madam Speaker, I commend the Committee on Government Assurances for the report tabled before this House for its consideration and action.

Madam Speaker, the report has highlighted various challenges affecting the implementation of Government economic service delivery programmes and the utilisation of funds advanced for programme implementation.

Madam Speaker, some of the challenges and recommendations as highlighted in the report are as follows:

Funding for the Completion of the Geological Mapping Programme

Recommendation: the Committee urges the Executive to urgently secure funds for the Geological Mapping Programme.

Madam Speaker, your Committee may wish to note that the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development has a Geological Mapping Sub-Programme under the Mineral Development and Management Programme. In the 2022 Budget, an allocation of K6.9 million was made towards the sub-programme to increase the percentage of geological coverage area mapped from 55 per cent to 56 per cent and to digitise geological and mineral resources data which are critical towards attracting investment in the mining sector.

Delay in Implementing Fiscal Decentralisation at Provincial and District Level

Recommendation: the Executive to ensure that all functions, which require to be moved from the fiscal decentralisation be actualised and moved without further delay.

Madam Speaker, your  Committee may wish to note that the Executive has outlined, in the 2022 to 2026 Decentralisation Plan, the actualisation of fiscal decentralisation. The following functions have been earmarked for Phase I of the devolution in 2022:

      (a)   district health;

      (b)   veterinarian services;

      (c)   community sport;

      (d)   cultural matters;

      (e)  archives;

      (f)   vehicle licensing;

     (g)   pontoons, ferries, jetties and harbours; and

     (h)  youth, sports and arts.

Your Committee may wish to note that the process of devolving these functions commenced in 2022.

Delays in Completion of Expansion and Modernisation of the Kenneth Kaunda International Airport

Recommendation: the Committee urges the Executive to urgently finalise the debt service deferment and resumption of disbursement to the project. This will expedite the completion of the expansion project which is three years behind schedule.

Madam Speaker, I inform your Committee that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning has prioritised the completion of the Kenneth Kaunda International Airport (KKIA). As your Committee may be aware, since the end of 2019, the Government has been facing challenges in servicing its public external debt and has since accrued arrears to its creditors. This had led to the lenders halting disbursements on the Kenneth Kaunda International Airport (KKIA) Project.

Madam Speaker, it is also important to note that the Government has made significant progress in addressing the debt challenge. Substantial progress has also been made with regard to the KKIA Project, which is almost complete. The Government is also making budgetary allocations towards the payment of the works to be completed in 2022.

Madam Speaker, my ministry is committed to ensuring that outstanding assurances made on this Floor of the House are attended to and takes note of the recommendations highlighted in the report.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe): Madam Speaker, I thank all the hon. Members who debated and supported the Motion on the report of your Committee. From the look of things, all hon. Members from both sides are almost speaking to one thing.

Madam Speaker, when we went on the ground, I am sure we discovered that some of these assurances were made a long time ago. So, the people out there are expecting the old and the new to work together. That is why your Committee suggested or made recommendations that when the resources are not available, the Government should not be swayed to make promises like the previous Government did. If you look at our reports, you will see that the Government Assurances Report is actually the biggest. It is almost the same as the one for the Public Accounts Committee (PAC).

Madam Speaker, because of that, many hon. Members in this House are looking for development and because there is too much pressure, members of the Executive are made to make promises which they cannot fulfil. However, your Committee is, somehow, happy to learn from the Executive that, indeed, they have to look for resources before they can make any Government assurances.

Madam Speaker, just repeating ourselves, through you, we would also like to urge the people that when the assurances are not fulfilled, there is a need for the Government through the Vice-President to come back to the House and tell the people that this project is not going to be actualised so that the people out there know the exact position.

Madam Speaker, otherwise, I thank everyone, and I also want to thank the hon. Members who have learnt that we need to work together. Indeed, mistakes were made, but we cannot continue making the same mistakes, and we are happy that the new Executive has realised and learnt from the previous mistakes. I want to thank you Madam Speaker and thank everyone who supported the report.

 I thank you, Madam.

Question put and agreed to.

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BILL

(Resumption of Debate)

JUDGES CONDITIONS OF SERVICE (Amendment) BILL, 2022

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving me this opportunity to complete my contribution on the Motion of the Bill.

Madam Speaker, before Business was interrupted, I had made reference to Article 232 which established the Emoluments Commission Act. In my submission, I quoted Article 232 (2) and I quote:

“Emoluments Commission shall determine, on the recommendation of the relevant authority or commission, the emoluments of public officers, chiefs and members of the House of Chiefs as provided in this Constitution or as prescribed.”

Madam Speaker, what I was trying to say to the hon. Minister of Justice is that if, indeed, the rationale behind this Article was to include the President, the President would have been prescribed as such, and not an authority. So, the relevant authority in this case is the Judiciary itself, working together with the Emoluments Commission.

We are happy that the hon. Minister of Justice has already made progress by ensuring that the Emoluments Commission Act is put in place. So, the prescription as referred to in the Constitution, has been done in the Emoluments Commission Act and Section 15, 16, 17 and 18 of the Emoluments Commission Act, 2022, is very clear. Again, I will belabour the point of the doctrine of separation of powers. What the Constitution was trying to move away from, is the aspect of, “He who pays the pipe calls the tune”. So, to try and get the President to recommend emoluments for Judges, will be another way of one arm of Government controlling another. So, the desirable position should be that, the Judiciary itself, working with the Emoluments Commission would make recommendations, which recommendations will then be acted upon by the commission itself.

Madam Speaker, your Committee, on page 8 of its report, also makes a very interesting observation; that other officers conditions of service, such as magistrates of the subordinate court, local court research advocates and other judicial officers, which are determined based on the collective agreements that are reached between the public service unions and the Government, must also be considered to be part of this Judges (Conditions of Service) (Amendment) Bill. Because of the peculiar nature of the work they do, it would be just prudent that they are aligned in that same Bill. So, Madam, your Committee has made these recommendations, and we therefore, expect the hon. Minister to attend to the amendment of Clause 3, so that the President is not brought into play.

Madam, I want to emphasise that your Committee did a lot of work and by practice, what the Committee recommends here, is what should be taken. We do not act against our Committee recommendations. What is expected of the hon. Minister of Justice is to either make the necessary amendments as recommended by your Committee or indeed, withdraw the Bill to go and work on it to include the observations that the Committee has made.

This Committee interacted with the Executive through Cabinet Office. Cabinet Office was also very clear in what it would want to see in this Bill. So, let us enhance the doctrine of separation of powers. The Judiciary should be left to manage its affairs to some extent, but of course, working with the Emoluments Commission, who’s Act has already been put in place.

Madam Speaker, I emphasise to the hon. Minister of Justice that we shall be with him and support him if he respects the works of your Committees established here in Parliament.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this motion. To start with, I want to state that the doctrine of separation of powers remains a very strong pillar of good governance. This entails that the Executive, Judiciary and the Legislature should not only be independent but be seen to be independent.

Madam Speaker, of the three arms of Government, you will agree with me that the Executive and the Legislature are predominantly controlled by politicians. It is only the Judiciary that may not have a mind of its own because it only has the mind of the law. That that is why we must protect the judiciary at all cost.

Madam Speaker, we have what we call the twin constitutional pillars. These two constitutional pillars are security of tenure and conditions of service. So, when you are talking about the independence of the Judiciary, you need to look at these twin pillars so that, first of all, the judicial officers are guaranteed in terms of security of tenure and, indeed, conditions of service.

Madam, as earlier argued by my hon. Colleague, we should not get to a stage where he that pays the piper calls the tune. So, we have to ensure that our judges have their security of tenure and secondly, that the conditions of service are determined by the Emoluments Commission and the Judiciary itself, in that case.

Madam Speaker, if the security of tenure and the conditions of service, for some reason through the Bill that has been presented, go through in the manner that is being proposed, that will undermine the independence of the Judiciary and in the end, the Zambian society will pay a heavy price. I, therefore, wish to implore the Executive, through my fellow learned counsel; the hon. Minister of Justice, that the Executive should at all costs resist the temptation to want to dilute or, indeed, undermine the independence of the Judiciary because once that is done, it is the Zambian society that will pay a heavy price.

Madam, quoting from the Constitution, Article 122 speaks to the independence of the Judiciary, Article 123 speaks to the financial independence of the Judiciary and Article 232 establishes the Emoluments Commission. Article 264 (2) states that:

“The emoluments of a State officer, councillor, Constitutional office holder and judge shall be determined by the Emoluments Commission, as prescribed. “

Madam, if we look at it that way, when you look at “as prescribed” meaning through an Act of Parliament, the first thing to consider there is the spirit of the Constitution, the text and the spirit of the Constitution. Looking at the constitutional provisions I have quoted, you will agree with me that the intention of the framers of the Constitution was to make these three arms of Government totally independent. It, therefore, cannot be that we come up with an Act or an amendment Act that begins to go against that spirit or intention of the Constitution.

Madam Speaker, I would further want to advise that sometimes as we interpret the Constitution, we should not pick on provision and run with it. For instance, others may argue that the Constitution, or, indeed, the Emoluments Act, provides that,“in consultation with an authority or commission”. When you read Article 267, it enjoins us to read all constitutional provisions that relate to a particular subject together. If we do read all those provisions together, we will only come to one conclusion, that the intention of the text in the Constitution was to create the judiciary as an independent body and if that is the intention, the Judiciary will not be independent if the determination of the emoluments is placed under the Executive.

Madam Speaker, that is the reason we are saying the hon. Minister of Justice has made pronouncements in the media and His Excellency the President of this Republic, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, himself, has made pronouncements that he would want to govern using the rule of law. I think the starting point is to ensure that these institutions; the Legislature, the Executive and the Judiciary, operate independently.

Madam, one would ask what is there to be lost, for instance, if the President is not involved in the determination of the emoluments of judges. What is there to be lost on part of the Executive? I think there is everything to lose if the independence of the Judiciary is affected by allowing the Executive to have a hand in the determination of the emoluments. So, when you are trying to balance the two, I think it weighs more on leaving the Judiciary alone, and the Executive not interfering in the happenings or, indeed, administration at the Judiciary and allowing it to remain independent and being able to determine the affairs including the determinations of the conditions of services.

Madam Speaker: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

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The House adjourned at 1840 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 15^th June, 2022.

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