Wednesday, 8^th June, 2022

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

______

MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

MR J. E.BANDA, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR PETAUKE CENTRAL, ON HER HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT, MRS NALUMANGO, ON THE PROCESS OF ACCESSING THE CONSTITUENCY DEVELOPMENT FUND

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr J. E. Banda: Thank you, Madam Speaker. On behalf of the good people of Petauke Central Constituency – Before I go on, I would like to congratulate the Zambia National Football Team for the victory it delivered in our nation to make us smile. I can see the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts is smiling. Congratulations once more, hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts. I also congratulate you, Madam Speaker, and your management, for providing sign language to the deaf people in our country so that they can follow the proceedings.

Madam Speaker, the question is on the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). To build up the question – It has many points but it is on the CDF.

Madam Speaker, the good people of Petaukedie on the way because of the long distances to the health facilities. The pupils in Petauke, those who are learning outside in this weather, are infected with pneumonia. 80 per cent of the pupils in Petauke Central Constituency sit on the floorbecause there are no desks andthey are infected with pneumonia. So,there are many patients with pneumonia and they are pupils.This has become a hazard to our children and pupils in Petauke.

There are some marketeers, Madam Speaker, who havecapital of about K200, and they were asked to form co-operatives, but forming one co-operative costs about K600. The marketeers borrowed money to form co-operatives so that they can benefit from the CDF. However, it is months since they formed the co-operatives. The people they borrowed money from to form co-operatives have now taken them to court. Some of the marketeers are not strong enough to stand in court, and they are threatening their relatives that if they do not help them, they can commit suicide.

Madam Speaker, with those few points on the CDF, I am asking Her Honour the Vice-President if she can intervene so that we as the House can change the CDF Act because the procedure to start using the CDF is too long. You can imagine, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development only takes about two days to approve the projects. The New Dawn Government released the money for the CDF, but the people out there think it is a jokeor that the Government has never done anything, or it is just maybe a song that there is the CDF. The good people of Petauke think that maybe this CDF was meant for the banks and not for the good people of Petauke and Zambia at large. So, I am asking Her Honour the Vice-President and everyone in the House to act on this matter because I know we are in this together. No one here has utilised the CDF. I know some of them maybe do not have energy to talk here but they have talked through me, Madam Speaker.

Irest my case, Madam Speaker. So, it is about the CDF. I know you may say that it has many points, but the point is one. It is about changing the CDF Actso that – Pa chakwasutukambaatitukousing’akonjilazifupizifupi. Vitali vitalivapakisha.

Madam First Deputy Speaker:Hon. Member, meaning what? Hon. Member, we are using English here. Can you translate what you just said?

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, when I was campaigning, I promised the good people of Petauke that I would not use long, long, long English because it takes time to deliver development. Instead, I will use short, short, short, English, ...

Laughter

Mr J. E. Banda: ... Madam Speaker, so that it is very easy to understand.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

MR J. CHIBUYE, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR ROAN, ON THE MINISTER OF WATER DEVELOPMENT AND SANITATION, HON. MPOSHA, ON SEWER NETWORK IN ROAN

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr J. Chibuye:Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, the matter of urgent public importance I wish to raise is directed to the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation.

Madam Speaker, in Roan Constituency, we have a very big challenge in as far as the sewer network is concerned.We know very well that the infrastructure in the constituency was constructed far back when the mines were opened, and the increase in population has actually outdone the infrastructure.

Madam Speaker, the people of Roan Constituency are concerned about this matter. Last week, I had to sample two houses where the faecal matter is flowing back right into the yards of the people. Some residents of Roan are not paying their rates for the sewer network on time. I have been told that when you do not pay the rates, Kafubu Water and Sanitation CompanyLimited will go and excavate the sewer network that leads to your home and block it with a sack filled with sand so that when you use the toilet, the faecal matter comes back to your home.

Is it in order,Madam Speaker, to subject people to this dangerous move which may cause people to suffer from waterborne diseases such as diarrhoea, dysentery and typhoid at the expense of a silver coin that Kafubu Water and Sanitation Company Limited is looking from the residents?

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Mpika.

Mr Kapyanga: Thank you so much, Madam Speaker. I rise on a very serious point of order, pursuant to Standing Order No. 206, which is on dress code for hon. Members, and states as follows:

 The official dress code for a male member shall be –

     (a) formal executive suit, a pair of long –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, that sounds to be a point of order.

Mr Kapyanga: Yes, I said “point of order, Madam Speaker.”

Madam First Deputy Speaker:This is not the right time because we are looking at matters of urgent public importance.

I will allow the hon. Member for Katombola, I think he was there before you. Then we will come to you.

MR ANDELEKI, THE HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR KATOMBOLA, ON THE ACTING HON. MINISTER OF TOURISM, ON THE ANIMALS THAT HAVE STRAYED FROM THE NATIONAL PARK TO KATOMBOLA

Mr Andeleki (Katombola): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker:A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Andeleki: Madam Speaker, allow me to thank you for the opportunity on behalf of the people of Katombola. I wish to raise a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam Speaker, my matter of urgent public importance is directed at the Acting hon. Minister of Tourism. In the last one month, the people of Katombola have been battling with the jumbos, the elephants, that were terrorising them, and yesterday, one elephant was killed. Four lions have strayed to Bombwe and have killed cattle and twelve goats in the last two days.

Madam Speaker, is the Acting hon. Minister – I cannot see the actual hon. Minister of Tourism – in order to remain quiet amid a very serious threat on the lives of the people of Katombola and my neighbour who is in a similar situation, the hon. Member for Mulobezi, where these lions have taken advantage and left the national park and are looking for our people and domestic animals?

I seek your guidance, Madam Speaker.

MR TWASA, THE HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR KASENENGWA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HEALTH, MRS MASEBO, ON SHORTAGE OF MEDICINES IN HOSPITALS

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance. I am speaking on behalf of the wonderful people of Kasenengwa in the Eastern Province.

Madam Speaker, before last week, there was a publication in one of the very widely read newspapers to the effect that there is a serious shortage of medicines in hospitals, and this issue was raised by the Resident Doctors Association of Zambia (RDAZ). This publication came out on 24^th May, just two weeks ago.

Madam Speaker, the situation seems to be moving from bad to worse. Yesterday, we had people at one of the biggest hospitals in Zambia being subjected to a very strange way of receiving medical treatment. When they go for an x-ray, they are told “We do not have x-ray fumes here.” So, once the x-ray is done on you, you are made to take a picture of the x-ray object on the screen using your phone, and that is what you present to the doctor for you to be attended to. What happens to my good friends in Kasenengwa and to the people in Kamanga who do not have smart phones for them to take a picture or a screenshot, including the people of Kaputa and Shangombo?

Madam Speaker, I think we need a statement from the hon. Minister of Health regarding this issue. It was raised last year but again it has come up. We have received some ministerial statements before but we seem not to get anywhere in terms of improvement in health delivery.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you talked about two issues, which is your issue here? You started by saying that there is a shortage of drugs and then you went on and emphasised the x-rays. So, what is your issue?

Mr Twasa: My concern, Madam Speaker, is the health delivery service which encompasses medicines and all these other auxiliary services. The health delivery system seems to be breaking down, Madam Speaker.

MR MUSHANGA, THE HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR BWACHA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, MR MWIIMBU, ON CRIMINALS IN KABWE

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mushanga: Madam Speaker, the matter of urgent public importance is directed at the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, Hon. Jack Mwiimbu. If he is not in the House, this matter is directed at Her Honour the Vice-President of the Republic of Zambia, being the Leader of Government Business in the House.

Madam Speaker, I represent the people of Bwacha Parliamentary Constituency and the good people of Kabwe District at large. The people of Kabwe are living in fear. We have experienced criminals stealing people’s property. As if that is not enough, we have experienced, so far, five to six deaths. People have been killed by these criminals. People’s property has been taken away. The people of Bwacha Parliamentary Constituency and Kabwe at large are living in fear. The good people of Kabwe have not got any statement from the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Madam Speaker, this matter is very urgent and that is why in representing the good people of Bwacha Parliamentary Constituency and Kabwe at large, I want the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security or Her Honour the Vice-President, being the Leader of Government Business in the House, to address this urgent matter, especially that life has been lost.

Madam Speaker, I need your guidance. Thank you very much.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I will start with the matter raised by the hon. Member for Petauke. The hon. Member actually raised this issue or these issues yesterday, where I disqualified the matter since there were too many issues under one theme. Today, again, he has talked about the long distances which he mentioned yesterday and pupils sitting on the floor. Now he has even added the co-operatives and that people have been taken to court. Hon. Member, according to the rules for raising a matter of urgent public importance, one of the requirements is that it has to be very specific. It has to be a substantive issue. However, this is so crowded.

The hon. Member, especially that he feels that this is a very important issue, can either raise a Motion or can indeed write an oral question so that this issue can be dealt with. Moreover, from what is going on, we hear there is a workshop looking at the same Constituency Development Fund (CDF), which I think wasorganised by the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: So, hon. Member, to help you, I think you should be very specific when you are raising such important issues.

The hon. Member for Roan talked about the infrastructure of the sewer system being very old and not adequate for the population of the people of Roan. Again, this is not a new problem; it is an old problem. Therefore, the hon. Member for Roan can raise this important issue through another avenue, as soon as possible.

The hon. Member for Katombola was complaining about the elephants and lions attacking human beings and also the cattle in his area and that the lions have even left the national park where they are supposed to be found and are now living with the people, which is very dangerous. Since a similar matter was raised yesterday and the hon. Minister of Tourism was actually directed to come to this House to issue a ministerial statement, I ask the hon. Minister maybe to combine the responses since the problems are the same, when issuing that ministerial statement next week.

The hon. Member for Kasenengwa talked about the shortage of drugs in hospitals and that other service deliveries are not being done the way they are supposed to be done. I am very worried, especially about the situation of the drugs in the hospitals, because it has been mentioned here and there although this issue was covered in the last Meeting and we were told that the drugs were supplied. However, again, the drugs have run out, so,I ask the hon. Minister of Health to issue a ministerial statement just to update the public on where we are with the supply or the shortage of drugs in hospitals and also the other issues related to the services at the hospitals, on Wednesday next week.

I thank you.

We have another matter of urgent public importance from the hon. Member for Nkana.

MR B. MPUNDU, THE HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR NKANA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF INFRASTRUCTURE, HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT, ENG. MILUPI, ON ACTION ON CHIBULUMA ROAD

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, I rise on a matter of urgent public importance pursuant to Article 134 in our Standing Orders.

Madam Speaker, this is a matter that I have brought before the House twice, and you as the Presiding Officer ruled that this matter qualifies to be an urgent matter of public importance. I am bedridden but this matter could not wait. Yesterday, the country would have woken up to a very sad story. Trucks and other vehicles got stuck for over two hours on the stretch called Chibuluma Road, and an oncoming train owned by Mopani Copper Mines would have caused a disaster never heard of in this country.

Madam Speaker, this seems to be a trend. Every evening, people, the travelling public, are stuck for hours on a stretch called Chibuluma Road. Yet in this House, Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, speaking on behalf of the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, did indicate to the House that the Government was going to work on the road called Chibuluma Road in the 2022 National Budget. When you look at the period we are in, this is June. If road works do not start now, the rains are almost setting.

Madam Speaker, when a matter qualifies as an urgent matter of public importance, one would expect that an urgent action would be taken. I am at pains to understand the lack of seriousness towards this matter.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development not interested in addressing this issue because the one who is raising it is an independent Member of Parliament or does he not just care at all?  The lives of the people are being threatened every day. The anguish that young people who were travelling from schools yesterday were subjected to cannot be allowed to continue if we are a people who care about the lives of people.

Madam Speaker, I bring it to you, should we continue to talk about this matter and should the lives of people continue being threatened, yet we have an hon. Minister who is in charge and who –

The hon. Member was inaudible.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, are you there? We have lost the hon. Member.

MR MUNG’ANDU, THE HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR CHAMA SOUTH, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HEALTH, MRS MASEBO, ON LACK OF DRUGS IN CHAMA SOUTH

Mr Mushanga: Madam Speaker, before the hon. Member for Chama South can come in, you have not given guidance on the criminals and thieves who are killing the people of not only Bwacha Parliamentary Constituency but Kabwe. People are living in fear not only in Bwacha Parliamentary Constituency but in Kabwe. I am wondering why guidance has not been given by Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, I have not forgotten about your matter; it is still coming.

Mr Mushanga: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

MrMung’andu (Chama South): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importanceis raised.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I also rise on thismatter of urgent public importance pursuant to our Standing Order No. 134.

Madam Speaker, as you maybe aware, Chama is a rural district. Chama South, I can safely now call it one of the remotest areas in this country. In Chama South,pharmacies or chemists are non-existent whereby in the event a public health provider such as a clinic or health post gives an individual a prescription, that person cannot go and buy drugs. In Chama South, you will not find the National Health Insurance Management Authority (NHIMA), which can direct certain pharmacies where individuals can get drugs. The people of Chama South are totally dependent on clinics and health posts which exist in the three chiefdoms that is, Chief Tembwe, Chief Chikwa, and Chief Chifunda.

Madam Speaker, I have received a very disturbing report from the councillor in Vilimukulu Ward, Councillor Robert Kumwenda, that there is no medicine in all the health posts in that ward and many other wards in the constituency. Therefore, it means that people will be dying or people are already losing lives due to serious diseases such as malaria. As you know, Chama at times experiences floods and floods are breeding areas for mosquitoes. People have nowhere to go and they have no drugs. I would like the hon. Minister of Health, and in the absence of the hon. Minister of Health, Her Honour the Vice-President to address the matter. What is the problem? Why can we not prioritise the health of our people, particularly people in rural areas like Chama and the people who I love so much in Kaputa,which is also a rural area. What is the problem?

I seek your serious ruling on this matter,Madam Speaker, before we lose many lives of our people in Chama South.

Amb. Kalimi: On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Before you come in, the hon. Member for Nkana talked about the Chibuluma Road that he had reported in the last Meeting. I will take advantage of the presence of the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, just to hear if anything has been done because we cannot again go back to the same ministerial statement.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, I appreciate the hon. Member for Nkana’s concern and for raising this issue.

For a start, Madam Speaker, I lived in Kalulushi, which is near Chibuluma, for many years. I also lived in Kitwe for many years, which means that I know this road inside out. Beyond that, I have a personal business on that road, which means even now, I use it regularly. The issue that we are dealing with, to finalise that particular stretch – In February, I was on that stretch, from the Nkana West traffic lights, I deviated onto the Mindolo Road and Chibuluma Road, on my way to Chingola and Kasumbalesa. That shows the amount of concern that we have. However, everything has to be put in perspective. Most hon. Members of Parliament here, both on the left and on the right, have equally pressing issues on roads, for example, the Kashikishi Road, and I even have pictures of the state of that road, the Mokambo Road, the Kasumbalesa Road, the Matumbo/Chama Road and the Livingstone/Sesheke Road. That is the state that we are in.

 

Madam Speaker, we will begin to address these matters, including the Chibuluma Road, when we have finances in place. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and I, as Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, have explained in this House the stages that we are going through. We hope certain discussions will be concluded so that we can bring to this House, a supplementary budget to address this matter. Chibuluma Road is a priority road, but we can only work on it when we have funding. The Budget that we approved in 2022 is very limited. I have explained that, two years previously, the budget for roads was K10.5 billion. In 2021, under the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, it was reduced to K6.5 billion and under us, as the New Dawn Government, it was reduced further to K4.9 billion. Significant amounts of this money go to pay the legacy debt that we have. So, these are the difficulties.

Madam Speaker, if we give the impression that every time someone raises a question, it must be addressed immediately, I do not think that is how things work. I take the Chibuluma Road as a priority, but it can only be worked on when we have resources in place. The hope is when our economic team finalises the discussions that will require your support and we come back to this House with a supplementary budget, we will then have the resources to address priority areas such as the Chibuluma Road.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security also had the occasion to address this House, through a ministerial statement, to state what needs to be done and what is being done to secure the lives of the drivers who use that road. We have not ignored it. We will address it but we are constrained by the resources that are lacking at the moment.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Bwacha is worried about the security in his constituency, where property has been stolen from people and even lives have been lost.

Hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, do you want to say anything now or later?

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to respond to the urgent issue or purportedly urgent issue that was raised by the hon. Member for Kwacha Constituency pertaining to the rising –

Mr Malanji: Bwacha!

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Bwacha. Hon. Malanji also passes through Bwacha Constituency.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Bwacha Constituency has brought an issue, which through my ministry, the police have dealt with. Last week, eleven suspected criminals in Bwacha, and Kabwe in particular, were arrested for aggravated robbery, murder, common theft and other criminal vices. The police are on the ground in Kabwe to ensure that sanity returns to Kabwe. We are aware of what has been going on, not only in Kabwe, but throughout the country. We have put measures to ensure that our citizens live in a safe environment. It is our duty and responsibility to ensure that the country remains safe. We cannot develop this country if criminal activities rise. As a result, we have taken measures. One of the measures we have taken is to provide transport to the Zambia Police.

Madam Speaker, you do recall that, yesterday, I made a pronouncement that we are buying police vehicles for policing in every constituency of this country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: That is how concerned we are. Let me assure the people of Bwacha and Kabwe through this august House, Madam Speaker, that we are taking measures to control the crime wave in the country and Bwacha in particular.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mushanga: Thank you very much Madam Speaker and I thank the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security for that feedback.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you were not given the Floor.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security for that update. I think the people of Kabwe are very appreciative of that statement that you gave.

The hon. Member for Chama South also talked about the issue of drugs. Hon. Member, this issue has already been assigned to the hon. Minister of Health, to issue a ministerial statement on Wednesday next week.

The last one will be from the hon. Member for Nyimba so that we move on.

MR MENYANI ZULU, THE HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR NYIMBA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HEALTH, MRS MASEBO, ON THE TWO MINI HOSPITALS THAT WERE ALLOCATED TO NYIMBA

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba):  On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Menyani Zulu: Madam Speaker, my matter of urgent public importance is directed to the hon. Minister of Health. If she is absent, it will go to the leader, our Republican Vice-President. Otherwise, others will think it is the other – Madam Speaker, this is directed to Madam Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, earlier this year, Nyimba District was allocated two mini-hospitals to be built by the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government because Nyimba Constituency is just as big as the entire Lusaka Province. In this district, we do not have a fully-fledged government hospital. We are being served by the Catholic Church.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister for Eastern Province was seated somewhere near where the hon. Minister for the North-Western Province is seated. I went there and congratulated him, and I thanked him because for the first time, the party in Government had thought of us. He promised that the UPND Government would not look at who is who and whether one is Independent, but that it would still provide leadership and give out that development which is needed in that particular constituency.

Madam Speaker, the District Commissioner (DC) was called for a press conference and he stated that we had been given two mini-hospitals. We were told to identify sites where the hospitals should be built, and we did. We gave one to the valley which was previously being served by the flying doctors, but for now, there are no services there, and the other one went to what we call Plateau.

Madam Speaker, two weeks ago, when we were on recess, I asked our Director of Health what was happening and why we were not moving. I was told that they have put the project on ice and our hospitals have been grabbed and taken to some provinces somewhere. I said that could not be true.

Madam Speaker, when we were sitting in our Committee meeting last week, I asked the Chief Executive, in fact, the Permanent Secretary (PS) for the Ministry of Health, who affirmed that they have moved them. I needed to know the reason these hospitals had been moved and I was told that some areas received more mini-hospitals than others so they have taken those hospitals to areas which did not receive mini-hospitals. When I asked which areas these were, I was told the answer would be provided.

Madam Speaker, Nyimba is part of this country and we are not second-hand citizens. What we need is what other areas of Zambia need. So, if those hospitals were given to us, the best thing the Government can do is look for money and build somewhere else. We know this is being sponsored by some organisation from Britain.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister or Her Honour the Vice-President, who I respect so much, in order to remain quiet while degrading the people of Nyimba to second-hand citizens by grabbing those two hospitals from them?

I need your serious guidance, Madam Speaker, on this one.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you so much, hon. Member. We can even feel your passion for those two mini-hospitals. Again, in as much as this matter is important, I think it can be raised in another way. If it is possible, you can visit the ministry and also submit an oral question so that that issue can be discussed here on the Floor of the House at length.

We move on. Questions for Oral Answer under Standing Order No. 74. The hon. Member for Luena.

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Question –

Rev. Katuta: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, just to remind ourselves on points of order. According to our Standing Orders, there are procedures that we have to follow. We do not just have to stand. There should be a breach by another hon. Member that has been committed. With that guidance, let us not just stand up and raise any unnecessary points of order. We wasted time yesterday. Let us look at points of order to do with procedure in the House, because we have a lot of work to do, actually. We want to hear all the questions that you submit and then there are also reports. We want to hear your reports from the tours and the meetings that you had, but if we waste so much time on unnecessary points of order, then, we are not going to progress with our work. So, with that guidance, let us reflect on the points of order before we raise them on the Floor.

A point of order is raised by the hon. Member for Chienge. What is your point of order, hon. Member?

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, the point of order I would like to raise is on Standing Order No. 206.

Madam Speaker, I have listened to what you have just guided, but now that I have been given the opportunity, I am getting concerned that some male hon. Members of Parliament have developed a habit of coming with handbags in the House. So, I would like to find out if that is in order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Coming with what, hon. Member?

Rev. Katuta: Handbags. This point of order is on the hon. Member for Lumezi. Yesterday, I think it was Hon. Mung’andu from Chama South –

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Is the hon. Member for Lumezi carrying a handbag?

Hon. Members: Yes!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Lumezi, if you are carrying a handbag , you are not supposed to come with one.

Mr Munir Zulu lifted his bag.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You can maybe leave the handbag in the car.

Mr Munir Zulu: This is just my diary, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Still more, male hon. Members of Parliament are not supposed to come with a bag in the House.

Mr Munir Zulu: All the diaries and a laptop?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: No. So, with that guidance, maybe you can help us by leaving your bag outside the House.

Mr Munir Zulu roseand gave his bag to Rev. Katuta.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Mundubile: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mundubile:Thank you, Madam Speaker, for this opportunity.Mine is just to remind you that you allowed Hon. Kalimi to rise on a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: That was an observation and we are sorry for that because we did not see the name of the hon. Member. Is it possible that that can be addressed tomorrow?

Amb. Kalimi: Madam, no wonder it is a matter of urgent public importance; it is important.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Yes, but we are also looking at other works that are before us. There are so many issues. Actually, the whole of this week, you can be raising them. We move on.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

CONSTRUCTION OF A ROAD FROM LIMULUNGA TO KATE

323. Mr Anakoka (Luena) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

     (a)   whether the Government has any plans to construct a road from Limulunga to Kate in Limulunga District;

     (b)   f so, when the plans will be implemented; and

     (c)   if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu)(on behalf of the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo)): Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to rehabilitate the road from Limulunga to Kate in Limulunga District in the Western Province, especially that it leads to the new district centre where all important facilities will be housed.

Madam Speaker, the plans will be implemented as soon as the funds are made available.

Madam Speaker, as indicated in response to part (a), we have plans to rehabilitate the road.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mabenga (Mulobezi): Madam Speaker, greetings from the good people of Mulobezi even though they are being terrorised by lions.

Laughter 

REHABILITATION OF THE SIMUNGOMA/LUAMPA ROAD

324. Mr Mabenga asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

     (a)  whether the Government has any plans to rehabilitate the Simungoma/Luampa Road in Mulobezi District;

     (b)  if so, when the plans will be implemented;

     (c)  what the estimated cost of the project is; and

     (d)  what the estimated timeframe for the completion of the project is.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, before I answer the question, I wish to congratulate our national team, for a job well done. I also congratulate our able hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts. Let me also remind the Leader of the Opposition and his Whip that when they do not visit the team when it is in camp,it wins.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, we have answered this question before, it was raised, but it has come back again.

Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to upgrade to bituminous standard, the Simungoma/Luampa Road in Mulobezi District.

Madam Speaker, the plans will be implemented once funds have been secured.

Madam Speaker, the estimated cost of the project will be known once the designs have been prepared.

Madam Speaker, the timeframe for the execution of the project will be known once the designs have been prepared.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I am rising under Standing Order No. 65, which is the provision of factual and verifiable information on the Floor of the House.

Madam Speaker, as you can see, I am participating virtually from home. The hon. Member for Chienge has created a problem where I am here. I am being questioned as to whose handbag I entered the Assembly Chamber with yesterday.

Yesterday, Madam Speaker, Hon. Chonde Saka, who the hon. Member for Chienge knows very well is in the habit of moving with a handbag, requested me to carry his handbag to the bar so that we go and watch Zambia win the game.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Chienge has insinuated and accused me of moving with a handbag, which is not factual and verifiable in my opinion. I am explaining here at home that I never carried any handbag. That handbag never came from any suspected niece or any other person. Is she in order to insinuate that I carried a handbag yesterday when in fact not? I need your protection and serious ruling.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Well, if you did not carry a handbag yesterday, definitely, the hon. Member for Chienge is out of order.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, many questions being raised by hon. Members in this House concern the infrastructure of our road networks in this country. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if his ministry has in place deliberate measures or policies involving the National Council for Construction (NCC) to ensure that it starts training the local contractors, who are in Zambia, so that when funds are secured, they can also participate in bidding for the various road infrastructure works?

It is common,Madam Speaker, for many contractors to pay huge sums of money to the NCC as renewals, but alas, they do not get any jobs nearly every year. Is the hon. Minister working in collaboration with the NCC to ensure that the locals, like my company, also start participating and reaping from these resources that the Governmentis sourcing for, once they are found?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the Member for Roan, Hon. Chibuye, is a true friend but I am afraid, even with the best intentions, that follow-up question is completely outside the scope of the question which was presented. 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kapyanga: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 206, which talks about the dress code and states as follows:

     “(1)      The official dress for a male member shall be –

            (a)    a formal executive suit, or a pair of long trousers, a shirt, a neck tie and jacket;

            (b)    a toga;

            (c)   a decent traditional attire such as siziba; or

            (d)   a safari suit, with long or short sleeves and a scarf or a neck tie.”

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member for Petauke Central in order to dress like a policeman or a member of the joint investigative wings? When you look at him, his pair of trousers is that of a policeman, then, his jacket is that of a singer. Is he in order to be here misleading this House that we can dress in anything we want?

Madam Speaker, I seek your very serious ruling on this matter and, please, call him in front so that he shows the House the kind of trousers that he is wearing.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Petauke Central, we cannot see you from there.

Mr J. E. Bandawalked near the front benches.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. E. Banda: He is just jealous of how good I am looking because he does not have money to –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, thank you.

Mr J. E. Banda resumed his seat.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I think we should not waste time on the dress code. The people are waiting to hear the issues talked about in this House. We all know how we should dress when coming to this House. Looking at what the hon. Member for Petauke Central is putting on, it is not appropriate for this House. I am sure the hon. Member has many clothes appropriate for this House. The hon. Member is a Whip, who is supposed to help us even whip the other hon. Members, so that they dress appropriately when coming to this House. I ask the hon. Member for Petauke Central to leave the House and dress appropriately like an hon. Member of Parliament attending a session in the Chamber. So, he may leave the House.

Mr Hamwaata (Pemba): Madam Speaker, last time when the hon. Member for Mulobezi asked about electricity, I think he was told that he was going to receive electricity around 2030. I would to find out something from the hon. Minister in line with the question on roads. Is the hon. Member of Parliament for Mulobezi expecting to receive that development by 2030 or maybe could the hon. Minister help us to know approximately when the hon. Member of Parliament will be helped?

Mr J. E. Bandaleft the Assembly Chamber.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the follow-up question. Let me just give a few more details on that particular road. The Simungoma/Luampa Road is part of the project for upgrading to bituminous standard of the road from Kasempa to Kaoma, Luampa, Machile and Simungoma, which has been earmarked for possible execution using the public-private partnership (PPP) mode of financing. The road has been packaged as part of the project for the development of the western trade facilitation route, inclusive of resettlement schemes and border facilities, that is under the Achieving Reduction of Child Labour In Support of Education (ARISE) Project.

Madam Speaker, the Government of the Republic of Zambia, through the Office of the Vice-President and the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, signed a concession agreement with Messrs Nkulu Zambia Limited on 10^th August, 2021. The scope of this project includes design, build and rehabilitation, operate and transfer of approximately 1,400 km of road to international bituminous standard and approximately 500 km resettlement scheme roads to bituminous standard. There will be one major bridge on the Shangombo Bridge, border facilities at Sikongo and Shangombo borders with Angola as well as Katima Mulilo Border with Namibia.

Madam Speaker, the works on the project will commence after financial closure has been attained. Right now, I can inform the nation that, as the Government, we are actively engaging the concessionaires to reach financial closure. What I mean by financial closure is that when a concession is given, the concessionaire then has to engage their financiers wherever the money is coming from and when they have concluded, that is what is called financial closure. When that happens, then, they can begin the work.

Madam Speaker, we are at a point where we are being assured by the concessionaires that they are about to reach financial closure, but we are pressing. So, the answer to the hon. Member who has asked the supplementary question is, yes, there is hope that we will reach financial closure, and when we do that, these projects will be embarked upon. If they do not reach financial closure, then, we will have to look at alternatives. There are some roads which are part of this big project that need to be done urgently.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mabenga: Madam Speaker, I am happy with the assurance by the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development. However, I hope this will be done before the rainy season because the material for the temporary work which is being carried out at the moment is substandard and it is going to cause a lot of misery for the people who will be using that project. Otherwise, thank you very much, but I pray that this will be done before the onset of the rainy season.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Mulobezi. This is what we are doing. As he has quite rightly pointed out, during the rainy season, that part of the road from Simungoma to Mulobezi was in a very bad state. What is happening now is just grading it. In most portions, there is no gravel road there. We are basically grading a road where there was no gravel. So, that is to facilitate movement of traffic. I think the hope lies in us completing this concession. We are doing everything in our power to conclude this, just like we are doing with other concessions, including the other roads that we are looking at.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Lumezi, do you have a point of order?

Mr Munir Zulu: Yes, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: On whom?

Mr Munir Zulu: The hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You can go ahead.

Mr Munir Zulu: I will take the House to Standing Order 207 (2) (c).

Madam Speaker, yesterday, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security told this House that he does not know which politicians are being transported by the police vehicles to far-flung areas.

Madam Speaker, –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Just to cut you short hon. Member, that point of order you are trying to raise is on something that happened yesterday. So, it has already passed, and you are required to write a complaint to the Speaker.

Mr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for according the people of Kaumbwe a chance to ask a supplementary question on the Simungoma/Mulobezi Road.

Madam Speaker, every time we ask questions concerning road rehabilitations and maybe improving our road network in the country, the answers we get are that the Government has plans to rehabilitate the roads and –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon Member, is it possible you can speak up.

Mr Mwanza: Madam Speaker, I am saying that every time we ask questions pertaining to our road network, the answers we get are that the Government has plans to rehabilitate the roads but that the cost will be estimated at the time the drawings will be done. This is of course in reference to the Simungoma/Luampa Road, which has similar characteristics like many other roads in respective constituencies.

 Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister just gave details after a follow-up question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Pemba concerning the Mulobezi Road, which is under financial closure. However, in his first answer to the question that was posed by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mulobezi, he did not disclose the other details and that that road is now under financial closure.

Madam Speaker, what is the cost of that financial closure which is under discussion now? Is the hon. Minister in order to only give details after follow-up questions, when the most pertinent questions that were asked by the Member of Parliament for Mulobezi need pertinent answers as to when that road will be rehabilitated and at what cost, because the people of Zambia want to know that?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I think there is a need for training. Let me take this opportunity to inform the hon. Member for Kaumbwe. When you issue a concession to a concessionaire and you are in the process of carrying out discussions and asking it to reach financial closure, some of the details of the cost of the project come out when you are having a final discussion. If I stand here and say this will cost so much, that gives direction to the concessionaire. The proper way of doing it is that it will come with its proposed cost and we will sit down and discuss. So, there is certain information that we cannot give out before the final discussion with the concessionaire, and that is dependent on it reaching financial closure. So, the hon. Member stood there and said he wants to know the cost, this is under the public-private partnership (PPP), and we will only know the cost when we have finalised.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Kaumbwe should remember that the PPP is essentially an investment, money coming into the country from somewhere else. The role of the Government is to ensure that it protects the interest of the country to make sure that those projects are not overpriced because if they are overpriced, that has an impact on the length of the concession. It also has an impact on the repayment period for them to make their money and make their profit. So, the fact that I have not told the hon. Members what the cost is, is strategic in that we want that to be part of the negotiations. That is what is implied in the PPP Act. If I did anything otherwise, I would be breaking the law.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mapani (Namwala): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out whether it is possible for the hon. Minister to come up with a comprehensive statement as to how many roads are likely to be worked on this year so that hon. Members of Parliament are aware of exactly what is going to be done this year, and this will help us to save time.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank my honourable friend, the Member of Parliament for Namwala.

Madam Speaker, the thrust of the Government is twofold because of the constraint of the resource envelop. The first thrust is to look at those roads which have viability in terms of pay back and so on and so forth, and therefore able to attract private investors. Those are the ones that we are targeting towards the PPP. We have a number of those roads and discussions on each and every road have reached certain stages. Then after that, there will be a number of roads that would not ordinarily qualify under the PPP because of the volumes of traffic on those roads. Those of necessity will have to be undertaken using our own resources. For those roads that require to be undertaken using our resources, that is why we are saying that looking at our Budget, there is a need to support our economic team in its discussions with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and creditors so that, through these discussions, we create the fiscal space to allow the hon. Minister to bring at the right time, a supplementary budget. It is only when that is done that we will only be able to know which roads can be undertaken under our own budget. Before that, it will not be possible to come with a comprehensive list as the hon. Member is asking.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, my point of order is on the Member for Mpika Central, Hon. Francis Robert Kapyanga, and I will cite our Standing Order No. 206 on the dress code.

Madam Speaker, our Standing Orders clearly describe how a male hon. Member of Parliament should dress. He should wear a suit or a jacket with a shirt and a necktie. Is the hon. Member for Mpika Central in order to wear a jacket and a T-shirt instead of a shirt?

I seek your serious ruling so that we maintain the decorum of this august House.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, from what I can see, the hon. Member for Mpika Central has a shirt inside and a jersey and a jacket outside. So, the hon. Member is not out of order.

CONSTRUCTION OF INFRASTRUCTURE IN MUFUMBWE DISTRICT

325. Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

   (a)   whether the Government has any plans to construct the following infrastructure in Mufumbwe District:

          (i)     a market; and

         (ii)     a bus station; 

  (b)    if so, when the plans will be implemented; 

  (c)     what the estimated cost of each project is; and

  (d)     what the estimated timeframe for the completion of each project is.

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu)(on behalf oftheMinister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo)): Madam Speaker,I wish to inform this august House that the Government has plans to construct a market and a bus station in Mufumbwe under the 2023/2024 Annual Budget subject to the availability of funds.

Madam Speaker, the plans will be implemented under the 2023/2024 Annual Work Plan.

Madam Speaker, the estimated cost of each project shall be determined once the designs are completed.

Madam Speaker, as indicated in (c) above, the estimated timeframe for the completion of each project shall be determined once the designs are completed.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

CONSTRUCTION OF ADDITIONAL CLASSROOM BLOCKS AND STAFF HOUSES IN SIOMA DISTRICT

326. Mr Anakoka (Luena) (on behalf of Mr Mandandi) (Sioma) asked the Minister of Education:

 (a)  whether the Government has any plans to construct additional classroom blocks and staff houses at the 

      following secondary schools in Sioma District:

      (i)         Kalongola;

      (ii)        Mulele; and

      (iii)       Mutomena;

  (b)    if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

  (c)        how many classroom blocks and staff houses are earmarked for construction at each school.

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima):  Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Government has plans to construct additional infrastructure to the upgraded schools countrywide and Kalongola, Mulele and Mutomena Day Secondary Schools in Sioma District are no exception.

Madam Speaker,the implementation of the plans is subject to the availability of funds.

Madam Speaker, the Government plans to construct a 1 X 3 classroom block and two semi-detached staff houses.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Anakoka: Madam Speaker, again, I willask a follow-up question on behalf of the people of Sioma.

Madam Speaker, the secondary schools in Kalongola, Mulele and Mutomena are some of the primary schools that were declared secondary schools by the previous regime and these are located in very rural areas where there is no accommodation for members of staff, and now that we are expecting even more teachers, the situation is dire. Can the hon. Minister assure the people of Kalongola, Mutomena and Mulele that the Government will expedite the construction of these facilities in order to provide an acceptable learning environment for our children.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, they are certainly assured.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

CONSTRUCTION OF A YOUTH SKILLS TRAINING CENTRE IN SIAVONGA DISTRICT

327. Mr Mulunda (Siavonga) asked the Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts:

       (a)  whether the Government has any plans to construct a youth skills training centre in Siavonga District;

       (b)   if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

       (c)  if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts (Mr Nkandu): Madam Speaker, congratulations are in order.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkandu:Madam Speaker, I will be failing in my duties if I do not also join the hon. Members of Parliament and also the soccer fans who congratulated the national team. I encourage them to continue supporting the national team.

Madam Speaker, the area hon. Member of Parliament may wish to note that it is the desire of the Government to construct and establish at least one youth skills training centre in each district, Siavonga included.

Madam Speaker, the plans to construct a youth skills training center in Siavonga District will be implemented obviously when funds are made available. The ministry is also engaging other partners for alternative funding for infrastructure development.

Madam Speaker,part (c) of the question falls off.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr E. Tembo (Feira): Madam Speaker, the issue ofa youth skills training centre and its importance cannot really be ignored, and I expected the hon. Minister to clarify – The question of when the fundswill be available has been addressed by this House and in short, as thelegislative wing of the Government, we need solid answers. I know that this project is not only peculiarto the hon. Member’s constituency. It is a general concern, so, we are interested. Generally, Zambians are interested. Can the hon. Minister clarify as to when the funds will be made available and when this will happen according to their plans? We want satisfactory answers from hon. Ministers. Otherwise, when we go without satisfactory answers, it is a serious problem on our part.

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, we can only talk about things that we have the money for. If we do not have the money, obviously, we should first look for the money before we can commit ourselves to construct any skills training centre. So, we do not have the money yet, but when we have the money, definitely, we are going to make sure that we construct one in Siavonga District.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simumba (Nakonde): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving the people of Nakonde an opportunity to ask a follow-up question.

Madam Speaker, I am getting worried because whenever an hon. Minister is giving an answer, the first thing he says is when the funds are made available. I recall very well that before the Budget was delivered in this House, whatever question we asked the hon. Ministers, they would tell us to wait for the Budget. The Budget has been delivered and we approved it, and another answer we are receiving now is that when the funds are available. At what point are the funds going to be available? Is it before the Budget or after the Budget, so that we know what time to ask questions?

Interruptions

Mr Simumba: It is like every question we ask, Madam Speaker, the answer is when funds are available. So, at what point are the funds going to be available?

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, the answer is very simple, it is that when funds are available.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Speaker, I congratulate the hon. Minister for having held faith in the team. Him and I stayed until the final whistle when others were running for safety. They did not have faith in the team. So, well done.

Madam Speaker, on this issue of no funds or there being no money, we approved the Budget in this House and the money is there. Just like the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), it is in bank accounts. The Budget is coming to an end and the Budget for 2023 will be brought to this House next month or so. So, the issue that there is no money does not hold water. When will this Government construct a skills training centre in Siavonga and where is the money that we approved in the 2022 Budget? I seek the hon. Minister’s clarification.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I really do not know how far the hon. Minister will continue repeating himself.

Hon. Minister, maybe, on this question as to when funds will be available, can you give a last answer which might be the same.

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, I do not know how best I can explain this. When you do not have the money, how do you commit yourself to a project, yet you do not have the money? However, Hon. Sampa is a very senior Member of Parliament ...

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Nkandu: ... who at one point was maybe Minister of Finance. I did not say that whatever other hon. Members of Parliament were looking for, everything was part of the Budget.

Hon. Member: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, you can continue.

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, we are not saying that we are not doing anything on the issue of the skills training centres. There are other skills training centres that are still under construction because they were budgeted for, but for the Siavonga one, it was not budgeted for. Apart from the money that we had budgeted for skills training centres, I said that the ministry is also engaging other partners for alternative funding. However, I cannot say this money will come tomorrow because we are lobbying. So, hon. Members of Parliament should just wait. When we are funded by the other partners, we will be able to go to Siavonga and construct a skills training centre.

Madam Speaker, I should mention that it is not everything that was budgeted for. The hon. Member for Matero knows that it is not every road, for argument’s sake, that was budgeted for in the 2022 Budget. Some of them will be budgeted for in 2023. So, he should not ask when this money is coming. Yes, money will come. We are doing everything possible to make sure that we find money and construct skills training centres.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. E. Banda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I take note of you hon. Member for Petauke Central.

Mr C. Mpundu (Chembe): Madam Speaker, here we are celebrating that the Zambia National Football Team won but the hon. Minister has not done much especially in talent tapping. Emanating from the Siavonga question, does the ministry have any deliberate plans to start constructing youth skills training centres in rural districts just like in Siavonga, Chembe and Shangombo so that they are able to tap talent? Hence, we experience lapses because they are only concentrating in urban areas. The talent here in urban areas has outlived its utility that is why we are having those problems of loses.

I seek a serious answer, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. E. Banda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised. It is like it is a burning point of order. What is your point of order, hon. Member for Petauke Central?

Mr J. E. Banda: Thank you, Madam Speaker, for giving the good people of Petauke Central this opportunity which they have been denied before.

Madam Speaker, the good people of Petauke feel they are not protected in this House because, firstly, they raised a matter of urgent public importance, which was specific on the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). However, it was brought out in this House like I do not go through the Standing Orders. Secondly, I raised a matter of urgent public importance and it was ignored again.

Madam Speaker, Standing Order No. 206 clearly states the dress code for hon. Members of Parliament. I do not know if this suit (showing a suit cover to the House) is not suitable according to the Standing Orders. According to me, this safari suit is there in the Standing Orders.

Interruptions

Mr C. Chibuye: Uncover it!

Mr J. E. Banda uncovered the suit and showed it to the House.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, there is no need to show the hon. Members.

Mr J. E. Banda: So, the good people of Petauke think that maybe they sent someone to this House who is not serious, but I am serious, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Mr J. E. Banda: This is a suit (showing the suit to the House). This is a safari suit. I do not know what is wrong with it.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Okay, hon. Member, can you wind up your point of order. I want to make a ruling.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, the good people of Petauke need a serious ruling so that they know if they are not protected here, then they can be attending the sittings maybe virtually.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Let me assure the good people of Petauke Central that they are really valued in this House, just like any other hon. Member of Parliament in this House. However, there are rules which have to be followed. So, –

Mr J. E. Banda was folding his suit while conversing with the Chamber Assistant.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, are you listening?

According to your Standing Orders, hon. Member, you cannot challenge the decision of the Speaker. From the two issues that you brought out, it is like you are challenging my ruling. So, it ends there. We cannot go forward. You cannot challenge the decision of the Speaker.However, if you have a complaint, please, write to the Speaker. The Speaker will be very happy to attend to you. In fact, for the other urgent matter that you had raised earlier, I even advised you to come to my office so that we look at how best you can present that issue. So, we move forward.

The hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts can attend to the question that was asked by the hon. Member for Chembe.

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, though we are talking about Siavonga, let me just repeat what I said. I said that it is our desire,as the New Dawn Government, to construct and establish at least, – if the hon. Member followed me– one youth skills training centre in each district. That is our desire and plan. Right now,we are busy,as I said, talking to co-operating partners who have shown interest to assist in infrastructure development.

Madam Speaker, I want to dispute the notion that we are only concentrating in urban areas. I just came from Lufwanyama, Luanshya, Mpongwe and Masaiti. I have been everywhere and I am sure the hon. Member of Parliament has been following me. So, we are also constructing resource centres there. Definitely, when money is made available, I assure the hon. Member that we will goto Chembe and also Kaputa, where there is no skills training centre. I believe we are looking for resources, and the availability of resources will now give us room to go to Chembe and Chienge.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I will take the last three questions from the hon. Member for Kabushi, the hon. Member for Kasenengwa and the hon. Member for Pambashe.

Mr Lusambo (Kabushi): Madam Speaker, the good people of Siavonga really need this youth centre and youth centres are very important in the upbringing of our youths in our districts. There are different skills which are offered at youth centres. My question to my colleague,the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts, is that:Have they ever taken an audit to know how many youth centres there are in our country and how many are at the construction level?

Madam First Deputy Speaker:Hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts, if you have that answer.

Mr Nkandu:Thank you Madam Speaker, though it is another question, but I want to say that this Government attaches great importance to skills development because we believe that this is how we are going to make sure that our youths attain skills. However,let me answer the second question.

Madam Speaker, there are twenty-three youth resource centres dotted around the country and out of the twenty-three, five are still under construction. Maybe, I should also explain to hon. Members of Parliament, especially those wanting resource centres to be constructed, the criteria that we use in constructing resource centres. So, when there is a proposal for a resource centre or skill training centre to be constructed, we will firstly need to know the population density of the youths between the ages of fifteen to thirty-five years and the centrality of the location where the centre will be constructed. Secondly, we need to ensure that there should be at least one modern youth resource centre in each province, ultimately in each district. The third one is the availability and offer of land from the authorities, that is the Ministry of Lands, Environment and Natural Resources, councils or chiefs for the ministry to be processed with title deeds. We are also motivated with the non-existence of a youth resource centre in that particular district. We are really motivated to come and give you one.

Madam Speaker, the location of a new youth resource centre in a particular district should not be in the proximity of other skills training centres. The actual location is decided in consultation with the provincial administration and also the local authorities. The number of existing youth resource centres in a province also matters and I am sure after giving the hon. Memberthis information, he will be able to know if a resource centrewill be constructed in his district.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister’s answers have raised many questions thoughperhaps let me just ask my question.

Madam Speaker, I know that from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), there is a lot of money that has gone towards skills training. Has the hon. Minister at one point thought of taking a certain portion of the CDF towards constructing skills centres in the districts other than taking it to skills training institutions because a lot of money has gone towardsthe Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training Authority (TEVETA) and other skill training centres, which in essence they could have directed to developing or building youth skills centres in the districts. Hasthe hon. Minister looked at that channel or initiative in the mean time?

Mr J. E. Banda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, it is a serious point of order on the hon. Member for Mandevu. Is he in order to put on a safari suit, with short sleeves, whenearlier after you made a ruling, a certain hon. Member was chased out of the Housefor wearing a safari suit with shortsleeves? However, the hon. Member for Mandevu is still in this House, but is he in order according to Standing Order No. 206?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I think this Standing Order No. 206 is now wasting much of our time. According to Standing Order No. 206, the official dress for a male hon. Member shall be a safari suit, with long or short sleeves and a scarf or a neck tie, which the hon. Member has on him.

The hon. Member for Mandevu has a neck tie and everything is there.

Mr Shakafuswastood up to show what he was wearing.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: So, the hon. Member is not out of order. We can move on, the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts.

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, I am happy that the hon. Member for Kasenengwa knows what is supposed to be done. However, the Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts does not sit on the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) Committee in Kasenengwa. It is him as Member of Parliament who is supposed to make a decision. If they are in dire need of a skills training centre, let him talk to the Ward Development Committees (WDCs) and the CDF Committee so that they forward that proposal. Obviously, we will be very happy as a ministry to have a skills training centre in Kasenengwa through the CDF. The way the Ministry of Health is benefiting from the CDF, and the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security is benefiting through vehicles, is the same way we should benefit as the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts through the construction of skills training centres.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Speaker, I did not want to ask a question, but the answer by my brother, the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts, in response to the hon. Member of Parliament for Matero has prompted me to ask a question. He said you do not need to spend money, which is not budgeted for on public infrastructure, and that he is speaking to co-operating partners and they will spend that money. Is that a new direction from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning that a ministry should lobby for money from co-operating partners and spend it on public infrastructure without this House’s approval? Is that the new position?

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, my senior, the hon. Member for Pambashe, knows that there is always a supplementary budget. So, if there is a pressing issue that needs to be sorted out, we always run to the Ministry of Finance and National Planning for a supplementary budget.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

CONSTRUCTION OF ADDITIONAL CLASSROOM BLOCKS AND STAFF HOUSES IN KABWATA CONSTITUENCY

328. Mr Mutelo (Mitete) asked the Minister of Education:

      (a)    whether the Government has any plans to construct additional classroom blocks and staff houses at 

              the following secondary schools in Kabwata Parliamentary Constituency:

             (i) Libala;

             (ii) Kamulanga; and

            (iii) Chilenje South; 

     (b)   if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

     (c)   how many classroom blocks and staff houses will be constructed at each school. 

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I sincerely thank you for awarding me this opportunity to raise a very important point of order on the Government Chief Whip.

Madam Speaker, there is a standard practice established that as hon. Members of Parliament, we respect each other. No one should disrespect another hon. Member of Parliament for any reason. Otherwise, your House will be in chaos.

Madam Speaker, this point of order relates to my brother, Hon. Tayengwa, and how he has been mistreated by the Government Chief Whip.

Madam Speaker, Hon. Tayengwa has suffered. Before my honourable brother was nominated to contest, there were issues that he was Zimbabwean, but we have accepted that he looks like a Zambian. For us, we are okay.

Laughter

Mr Kafwaya: After he won the election, some people rose and said that the election was rigged, but he was sworn-in here, like all of us. Then an hon. Member from Mitete usurped his responsibility to ask a question to the hon. Minister, as if my hon. Colleague here does not have a constituency?

Madam Speaker, when is Hon. Tayengwa going to be free? From nomination, to the election and in the House, he has been undermined. This question here (pointing on the Order Paper),asked by the hon. Member for Mitete relates to Libala, Kamulanga and Chilenje in Kabwata Constituency. What has Hon. Tayengwa done to the United Party for National Development (UPND)?

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order! Can you cite the Standing Order?

Mr Kafwaya: Is the Hon. Chief Whip in order to allow this confusion in the UPND?

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, before you resume your seat, can you cite the Standing Order?

Mr Kafwaya: Standard practice, Madam Speaker, of respecting each other.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, who raised the point of order, we are not sure whether this is an old question that was raised before the hon. Member for Kabwata was elected in office.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

The other part, which I am going to talk about –.

Mr Mundubile: Just reserve the ruling.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: No, I cannot reserve it; it is a simple issue.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members of Parliament are national leaders who are allowed to –

Mr Chitotela: To intrude in people’s constituencies.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Yes, they are allowed to find out about issues even from other constituencies …

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: … because of being national leaders. However, hon. Members, I think in future, we shall ask the hon. Member for Kabwata to ask questions about his constituency, but since this question is already on the Order Paper, we shall go ahead.

Mr Syakalima:Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Government has plans to construct additional infrastructure at Libala, Kamulanga, and Chilenje South Day Secondary Schools in Kabwata Parliamentary Constituency.

Madam Speaker, the implementation of the plans is subject to the availability of funds.

Madam Speaker, the Government plans to construct a 1 x 3 classroom block and one semi-detached staff house.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, I am saddened by the point of order that the hon. Member raised.

Hon. Opposition Members: Supplementary question!

Mr Mutelo: Before I ask my supplementary question …

Mr Mundubile: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutelo: …, number one, I am a national leader.

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Mutelo: Number two, three of these questions were asked way before the current hon. Member of Parliament was elected.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Mundubile: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

We seem to have many interjections. I will allow the Leader of the Opposition to come on the Floor. Do you have a point of order, hon. Leader of the Opposition?

Mr Mundubile: Yes, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, this is a House of rules and decorum. Once you have ruled on a matter, it is expected that hon. Members will refrain from commenting on that matter. Therefore, is the hon. Member in order to refer to a ruling that you have just made before he asks his question?

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you, Leader of the Opposition.

Hon. Members, we have talked about this already. Once a ruling has been made, there is no need of challenging or going back to that ruling. If there is a complaint, just submit a written letter to the Office of the Speaker. Otherwise, if we allow the ruling of the Speaker to be challenged, then, we will have everybody challenging each ruling that we make. So, for the sake of moving forward, hon. Member on the Floor, can you, please, go straight to your question so that we make progress.

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, I was not challenging your ruling. I was saying your ruling that I am a national leader is correct.

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, go straight to the question as directed because those additional words are now bringing other issues.

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, asking this question on behalf of the hon. Member of Parliament who died in Kabwata, is the hon. Minister sure about the answers he has given to the people of Kabwata?

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: The answers that he has given –

Hon. Members: Are you sure?

Mr Mutelo: Is he sure? This is in no way – the hon. Member is equally here to ask on his behalf, but I am a national leader and hon. Ministers have had questions asked on their behalf by Back-Benchers and that has continued in this House.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker …

Hon. Opposition Members: Are you sure? Yes or no?

Mr Syakalima: … I am very, very, very, another very sure.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Kabwata.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, I just wanted to notify you that I am now the new bulldozer, not the other one who is now –

Mr Lusambo interjected.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tayengwa: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister said, “when funds are made available”. As a request, could his office expedite the process because we have already started doing some works? We are already putting up a modern science laboratory in Kabwata Constituency through the corporate social responsibility with the business community and a laboratory at one of the clinics in Kabwata Constituency. Can the hon. Minister help us expedite the drawings so that we can have them approved by the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Developmentand can put up modern laboratory facilities in our constituencies?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I will certainly expedite the process. The hon. Member is doing a good job in Kabwata and he requires our support just the way we have supported everybody here.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte):Madam Speaker, I am also inspired by the supplementary question from the hon. Member for Kabwata. Now that the hon. Member has clarified that there is already work being done on this, and I think this is why it is important to liaise with a sitting Member of Parliament, where is the hon. Minister going to take the resources which he earmarked for this?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, did he get me right? I said the implementation of the plans is subject to the availability of funds. Certainly, we get funds from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. It is usually a matter of time. Since the hon. Member has said that they have begun doing something and all he needs is additional funds, these plans are already there and we shall look for those additional sums, hence, the word availability. I know they detest the word availability. When schools were about to open, funds were available and schools opened. So, they should not get scared about the word availability; it is just an English word.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr C. Mpundu (Chembe): Madam Speaker, when I look around the schools in question, Libala and Chilenje South secondary schools, I can see that all this infrastructure is surrounded by houses. Is there space to put up staff houses for our teachers?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I am not quite sure. Was he there? Sometimes we do not utilise what we call space. I know in this country we think space is just on the ground; space can also be in the air. If what the hon. Member is saying is anything to go by, we will certainly look into ways of constructing.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Anakoka: Madam Speaker, taking advantage of the question posed by the people of Kabwata, as the ministry puts up infrastructure around the country, Kabwata included, will special attention be given to address the challenge of schools in rural areas, where day schools are good but not good enough, by considering building boarding secondary schools in rural areas?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I thought Libala was in Lusaka.

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: Libala, Kamulanga and Chilenje are in Lusaka, which is a town, but now he is asking about rural areas. Many hon. Members have seen me in rural areas. I go around rural areas and I know what is happening there. So, we will certainly have to have a look at the rural areas. When I check around here, many of us come from rural areas and I know the dire need which is there for both space for the children and also for the teachers. So, we are certainly looking into that countrywide.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi):Madam Speaker, we do not detest the term unavailability of funds –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Munir Zulu: Sorry, Madam Speaker, I seek your guidance. I seem not to see the hon. Minister of Education, neither the Whip.

Interruptions

Mr Syakalima entered the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Lumezi an opportunity to ask a follow-up question.

Madam Speaker, in his submission, the hon. Minister suggested that we detest the word unavailable. Permit the good people of Lumezi to make mention that we are accustomed to the word unavailable, like the hon. Minister was unavailable a few seconds ago.

Madam Speaker, when the hon. Minister says the resources are unavailable, we are accustomed to that because even when we charter a plane as a country, the plane is not available.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Lumezi, can you, please, focus on your question.

Mr Munir Zulu: Yes, Madam Speaker, I am trying to build a good question for the hon. Minister, which will have unavailable answer.

Madam Speaker, in his submission, the hon. Minister – if I am not mistaken, the office that houses the Ministry of Education is neighbouring to Kabwata Constituency. I know the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is unavailable, for us as hon. Members of Parliament to do those projects, maybe because of the availability of the bottlenecks, and the teacher recruitment is unavailable due to the bottlenecks.

Madam Speaker, when will we change the language from saying unavailable to available, knowing very well that when we were debating on the Budget last year, the topic was that we wait for the new Budget? The Budget went through this House and what we know is that money was budgeted for and is available. So, when will we start saying money is available, especially that we are coming from a background where we were told to wait for the new Budget and this is a new Budget; it is the first Budget for the New Dawn Government. 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I am not quite sure whether the hon. Member was talking to himself or to me because he was transposing my sentences. He said unavailable but I said the money is available. We increased the teachers’ salaries last year and we are using the same budget you passed yourselves to pay the teachers this year. So, when the money is not available at that time, I come here and say the money is not available as of now. When it is available, we pay teachers’ salaries, and this time, all the university staff are being paid on time. Previously, they used to go for one month without a salary. They would be paid in another month. Each time they went on strike, it was because of salaries. However, from the time that we formed Government, from August last year, we have never slackened in paying salaries for university staff. So, we have never failed to pay salaries. So, it means that the money is available for that.

Madam Speaker, the schools opened and, again, the money was available. The other time I postponed the reopening of schools because of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) but many people said the Government did not have money. However, I closed the schools for ten days just to preserve the lives of our children and then they opened. In the second term, we gave all the monies to the schools. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning released the money two weeks before the schools opened. That shows you that the money was available. So, the money has been available but, in some cases, like this one, it is not yet available. However, because I am in hurry for this,I know the money will be available and this is why I said subject to the availability of money. So, when I was said that you were distasteful; we have not shut the country. So, it means that in all these spheres, the monies are there. When I said you seem to be distasteful, I wanted you to start liking the words ‘when the money is available’. Be in love with those words because they are good words. They give you hope. We are all creatures of hope. If we do not give you hope, then, you will not even be coming here. You will be staying at home saying ‘what I am I going to find there, there is not even hope’. First of all, you are standing because you have hope. So, I have already answered the question but I just wanted you to get used to the words ‘subject to the availability’.

I thank you,Madam Speaker.

CONSTRUCTION OF A MODERN POLICE STATION IN MKUSHI DISTRICT

329.  Mr C. Chibuye (Mkushi North) asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security:

       (a)   whether the Government has any plans to construct a modern police station in Mkushi District; and

       (b)    when the plans will be implemented.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to construct a modern police station in Mkushi District. So far, the Government has constructed thirty housing units for police officers in Mkushi under Phase 1 of the infrastructure development programme.

Madam Speaker, the plans to construct a modern police station will be implemented when ongoing infrastructure projects which are at 80 per cent and above are completed and when funds are made available, as per the good word.

Thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that response. May I ride on his response that, indeed, the ministry has constructed thirty houses for police officers and has also constructed forty houses for other security wings, which are seventy in total. Now, is his ministry aware that the current police station was actually a farm for a certain white man, which was donated to the Government of the Republic of Zambia? Further, is there any immediate response to such so that we come out of that building as soon as possible?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, as I indicated, the Government has plans to construct a modern police station. However, when we looked at the priorities at the time, we realised that it was of paramount importance then to construct houses for the officers because there is an office block which is being used currently to service the people of Mkushi. In future, as I indicated, once the other projects that are being undertaken by the Government are completed, we shall definitely undertake the construction of a modern police station in Mkushi.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, the people of Chilubi want to seek clarification on certain terms, especially coming from the hon. Minister of Security and Internal Affairs, I hope that is the right title.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: He is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, forgive me, I am not yet used to the new ministries that were created. On the other hand, other hon. Ministers, especially the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, used the term ‘financial closure’, whatever that means. We are now hearing terms like ‘when funds are unavailable’.

Madam Speaker, this House also deals with issues of government assurances. The people of Chilubi are worried that in as far as that term can be gloried in this House, I do not know what will be put in government assurances because to me that term is quite fluid and it is not assuring. Can the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security break down what the real meaning of the term ‘when funds are available’ is? If possible, I would have wished that even the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, who is not currently answering the question, also explains the term financial closure that he continuously used. We are quite worried.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The question is addressed to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. Therefore, he is going to answer your question and not the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, constitutionally, monies that are disbursed by the Republic of Zambia, through the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, are made available through the budgeting process, and the budgeting process is undertaken by this House. When this House makes money available, it will be available.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Munir Zulu: Thank you so very kind Madam Speaker, for permitting the good people of Lumezi to raise a voice on this very important matter. I know we are quite archaic in some of our submissions, but permit me to congratulate the hon. Minister for having built seventy houses in nine months. The hon. Member for Mkushi North has corrected to say other than having built the thirty, there are forty more houses. When you add thirty plus forty, you get seventy houses. So, permit me on behalf of the good people of Lumezi to congratulate the New Dawn Government for having built seventy properties in nine months in Mkushi.

Interruptions

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, does the hon. Minister think it is right that seventy houses have been built, yet he is saying resources are unavailable for just one police station?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, it is not just Mkushi Police Station where houses for officers have been built. We have built hundreds of houses in Lusaka, Ndola, Kabwe, Livingstone and Monze. So, it is not just in Mkushi. As a result of the infrastructure that was built, the money got finished. That is why it is not available and it will be made available when we make it available.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lusambo: Madam Speaker, Mkushi District, in the recent past, has grown and other foreign investors have gone to invest in Mkushi, in the agriculture and mining sectors. Does the ministry have any deliberate policy to engage the investors who have gone to invest in Mkushi to contribute as corporate social responsibility to cushion the Government expenditure, so that we come up with modern police stations in Mkushi?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, first of all, I thank the community of Mkushi and in particular the farming community, who donated this very beautiful infrastructure to the Government of the Republic of Zambia, which is being used as a police station. The farming community and other business communities in Mkushi have been assisting the Government of the Republic of Zambia to provide services. However, it will not be appropriate for me to issue a ministerial statement or answer the hon. Member of Parliament based on the goodwill of the people of Mkushi. My responsibility is supposed to be based and anchored on the Government’s efforts to provide for the people of Zambia. Obviously, as I indicated, the good people of Mkushi have always been available to help provide public services in Mkushi.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I will take the last three questions from the hon. Member for Kasenengwa, the hon. Member for Mandevu and the hon. Member for Mpika Central.

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, through you, I have gotten the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security’s response very well. However, yesterday, he indicated that as a matter of fact, his ministry will procure police vehicles for all districts in Zambia. Today, we heard from the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts, when he was answering a question from the hon. Member for Siavonga, that as a matter of fact, his ministry is not only looking at Siavonga but other districts. Now my question to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security is: As they are looking at the situation in Mkushi North, have they also taken stock to identify how many districts need police stations in this country because it is not only the people of Mkushi North who need a police station, but even in Kasenengwa, we have the same problem?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I will give a bonus answer to my colleague. I am aware that Kasenengwa is a new district. According to the plans of the Government, when a place is declared a new district, certain minimum requirements are supposed to be provided by the Government and a police station is one of them. Please, be assured that at an appropriate time, a police station will be built in Kasenengwa.

Madam Speaker, coming to the question asked by the hon. Member, at an appropriate time with your permission, I will come and inform this august House the requirement pertaining to the construction of police stations.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Shakafuswa (Mandevu): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to ask my good uncle, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, a question.

Madam Speaker, may it be noted that I am one of those who supported the budget head for the ministry for the one reason that it needed to continue on the infrastructure development that was being undertaken by the previous Government, so as to motivate the officers with modern houses and modern offices. In supporting the budget head, I would love to see the ministry now using that money that we availed through the 2022 Budget to build offices such as the one being sought by the people of Mkushi District. I am aware that the police post in Mkushi is an archaic old building that was donated in the pre-colonial times. Therefore, will the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security use part of the money that was approved in the 2022 Budget to improve the security situation and build modern offices for the officers in Mkushi?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I thank the Member for Mandevu, Hon. Shakafuswa, for the question he has posed. I also appreciate and congratulate him for having facilitated the construction of a modern police station in Kalundu. He should keep it up; he is serving the community.

Madam Speaker, I want to inform this House and the hon. Member that in the current budget, there is no provision for the construction of police stations. We hope that once the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning resolves the issues of the debt crisis which we are facing, there will be a provision for the construction of police stations and police officers’ houses. Currently, we do not have a provision. We are willing to do it but money is not available.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kapyanga(Mpika Central):Thank you so much Madam Speaker, for giving me an opportunity to interact with the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Madam Speaker, I commend the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security for having owned the thousands of houses constructed for the men and women in uniform, and maybe in the same vein, the Fredrick Titus Jacob (FTJ) University in Luapula can be owned by the Government,as well as Ntumpa University.

Madam Speaker, the issue of office space for our men and women in uniform remains a very big challenge not only in Mkushi, and even in Mpika, houses have been constructed for the officers, at least 6 km from where they operate, so, that creates the need for a police station. This is a very big challenge for our men and women in uniform and it calls for an urgent mobilisation of resources by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning so that the status quo can be addressed.

Mr Mwiimbu:Madam Speaker, first and foremost, I appreciate the commendation that has been made by my colleague pertaining to the construction of officers’ houses.

We are aware, Madam Speaker, that most, if not all police stations, apart from those that were constructed recently, are in deployable state. As I indicated, once money is available through the Treasury after we have restructured the debt, we will start making provisions for the rehabilitation of police stations. The stations that are obtaining currently in the country are not fit for officers to operate from. However, we have no option but to live with the current situation until resources are made available. I sympathise with the officers who are working under very difficult situations and circumstances, providing a very important service to the country; we have not forgotten their plight. As I indicated, we are doing something about it. Once money is made available, through the Treasury, we will make provisions to rehabilitate police stations.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Before we move to the next question, we had omitted the hon. Member for Lunte. It will be the last supplementary question on this question.

MrKafwaya: Madam Speaker,I thank the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security for his responses, particularly the response he offered to Hon. Munir Zulu, where he said that they have not only constructed seventy houses but hundreds upon hundreds of houses, not only in Mkushi, but in Lusaka, Ndola, Livingstone and Monze. I take pride in the hon. Minister’s pride because he has really done well. I imagine that this construction that he referred to was done by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government and Hon. Milupi indicated that he has not seen any of the infrastructure development that the PF keeps on boasting about.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has given us an example of the infrastructure development done by his Government during the PF. Does he think that what Hon. Milupi said were just bad politics or are those good politics of misleading people?

Madam First Deputy Speaker:  Although we have now moved away from the question from the hon. Member for Mkushi South, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security can give us an answer if he has any.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Lunte, who served as a Minister under the immediate Patriotic Front (PF) Government. Hon. Colleagues and my colleague who has posed the question should realise that as a result of the unconsidered implementation of the infrastructure plan under the PF Government, we have found ourselves in a debt crisis. As a result of the imprudent expenditure on the part of the PF Government, we are even failing to build offices for the police and to service the debt. We are sunk as a nation as a result of the unbridled borrowing which was incurred by the PF Government.

As a result of the decisions you made, we are in this crisis.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: As a result of the decisions you made, you yourselves, – yes, you realised that there was reckless borrowing, and you decided to suspend the projects and defer the payments to the lenders. As a result of the failure to service the debt, this country has found itself in a crisis such that we are not able to undertake any developmental projects as a result of what you did. You built houses, but recklessly.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker:  We move on to the next question.

ELECTRIFICATION OF MUCHIKA AND LULIMALA WARDS

330. Mr Mutale (Chitambo) asked the Minister of Energy:

       (a)  whether the Government has any plans to electrify the following wards in Chitambo Parliamentary

            Constituency:

            (i)     Muchinka; and

            (ii)     Lulimala;

       (b)   if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

        (c)   whether the electrification of the wards will include all government institutions in the constituency.

Mr Mundubile: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65 on the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Madam Speaker, I was enjoying the manner in which the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security was taking the questions, acknowledging the development that happened in the past and referring to the many houses.

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that the hon. Members on this side have been breaking nights, planning on how we can assist the New Dawn Government. For the past three days, we have been trying to find solutions on how we can assist our local hero, Hon. Musokotwane, on the issue of the International Monetary Fund (IMF). As we speak, there is a problem to do with free education, and we have been breaking nights in trying to see how we can assist.

As we speak, Madam Speaker, there is nothing to write home about when we talk about the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). We have taken a different position as hon. Members on the left, to say this is about Zambia. We will not be political about the failure on the IMF. We will not be political about the failure on the CDF. We will not be political about the failure on free education. However, as we are doing all that, I am now surprised that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security has taken a different turn altogether, betraying the goodwill that is being implored by the people on this side.

 Madam Speaker, he, himself, acknowledged the massive developments that have been constructed by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government. It was only last week when they were singing songs when launching the Mulungushi International Conference Centre, legacy projects that were done by the PF Government. Is he, therefore, in order to come to this House to first of all betray the goodwill that we have shown in trying to assist them to resolve the many problems of this nation, and mislead the nation that on account of imprudent use of resources, the country is on its knees, yet it is on account of the failure by the New Dawn Government to implement the Budget that they so much sung about.

We were in this House, Madam Speaker, when a question was asked and we were told that we wait for their budget. We are so many months down in their budget, but nothing is going on. Not a single infrastructure project has been put up even under the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security. Is the hon. Minister, therefore, in order to castaspersions on the PF Government that built hundreds, if not thousands of houses, in terms of infrastructure when they have done none in the past nine months? Is he, therefore, in order to continue deceiving the Zambian people and betraying the goodwill entrust that we have shown as a people in assisting the New Dawn Government to govern this nation?

I need your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Hon.PF Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has actually debated his point of order taking us through what the PF Government did and also how he is working very hard andthe response that he received from the UPND. Having debated that point of order, I see no need of making a ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: However, hon. Members, it is like these answers are coming from the way we pose our questions. Sometimes, our questions are too loaded and attract some other things which are outside the question. Can we, please, focus on the question so that we do not go astray. Having said that, we can move forward. We are on Question No. 330.

The Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala): Madam Speaker, the Government of the Republic of Zambia has plans of electrifying Muchinka and Lulimala wards in Chitambo Constituency under the Rural Electrification Programme.

Madam Speaker, according to the Rural Electrification Master Plan, Muchinka and Lulimala wards in Chitambo Constituency are scheduled for electrification in the year 2024.

Madam Speaker, the electrification programme will include government institutions and the surrounding areas in the constituency. However, the subsequent electrification of Muchinka and Lulimala wards in Chitambo Constituency is subject to the availability of funds.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister said that 2024 is the year that Lulimala and Muchinka wards will be electrified but that again, that will depend on the funds being available. Now that that answer indicates uncertainty and there is no positivity in it, does the hon. Minister have any other measures away from the Rural Electrification Programme because I am aware that the Government intends to run a line from Pensulo Substation all the way to Mansa? Can the hon. Minister confirm if, from that line, the people in those wards in Chitambo will be able to benefit electricity?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the answer to that question is that I need to check whether the line that will pass through Chitambo will provide for the electrification of the affected areas.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has just informed the people of Zambia through this House that according to the plan, the two wards will only be connected to the national grid in 2024. However, the Government, through the Ministry of Tourism, has invested heavily in the burial site of David Livingstone in this same area, and the New Dawn Government is struggling to find resources. It has an opportunity of investing by simply taking electricity to this area so that the David Livingstone Burial Site, which received massive investment from the previous Government, can continue to attract investment, and within the same area, that is where the Kasanka National Park is. Are there any other programmes outside the Government’s actual budget or maybe through co-operating partners that can help the Government to find money to finance these two institutions, the David Livingstone Burial Site and the Kasanka National Park?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, we are talking about Chitambo, and I do not know how Livingstone has come into the question. However, my answer to that question is that this is reflected in the master plan, as reflected in the Rural Electrification Programme. The hon. Member is free to come and consult us so that we can assure him that the two wards will be electrified in 2024.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, just to augment the question that Hon. Kasandwe asked, the David Livingstone Burial Site, if the hon. Minster is not aware, is the memorial site where David Livingstone died from and this contributes to the tourism of this country. All we are trying to ask the hon. Minister is, can it not be prudent for him to find any other sources of power, for example, the New Dawn Government is boasting of trying to uplift green energy, to try and electrify these places, Kasanka and David Livingstone Memorial Site, so that they can boost revenue in terms of tourism?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, for me, if this is an urgent issue, we should look at the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) so that part of that money can be utilised to electrify these areas. Otherwise, we are looking at the master plan which covers the whole country, so, we cannot pinpoint and say, okay, let us direct whatever resources are available to Chitambo.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North):  Madam Speaker, first and foremost, I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Rural Electrification Authority (REA). It came to Chama North Constituency and we had a good interaction with it.

Madam Speaker, it worries me that fifty-eight years after Independence, only 31 per cent of the people in Zambia have access to electricity and a paltry 8 per cent in rural communities. Now, looking at the 2030 Vision of universal access to electricity by 2030, we are remaining with only eight years but only 31 per cent of the population is accessing electricity. Can the Government not engage other donors to come on board and invest more in this sector so that many people especially in rural areas, for example in Muchinka and Lulimala in Chitambo, can be given electricity as quickly as possible instead of giving them electricity in 2024 which is quite far?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I wish to take this opportunity to inform the hon. Member for Chama North that we have quite a number of projects coming up mostly for solar. So, once these come on stream, we should be able to electrify most rural areas that do not have electricity because solar power plants take an average of one and half years to construct. So, hon. Members will see many activities happening come next year.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, thank you for according the good people of Solwezi East an opportunity to ask the hon. Minister of Energy a follow-up question. Can the hon. Minister confirm on a circular that was given to all hon. Members of Parliament regarding the submission of priority facilities of possible electrification under the proposed Priority Rural Electrification Project, and if the hon. Member for Chitambo did submit the priority sites under this submission?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I am not yet privy to that list. However, I can come back to the House and give a comprehensive statement as to which Parliamentarians have submitted the list that is required.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chibombwe (Bahati): Madam Speaker, we have been told that Chitambo is home to the David Livingstone Memorial Site and the Kasanka Game Reserve, which boasts of the biggest bantu migration in Africa.

Madam Speaker, earlier on, Hon. Mutale mentioned that Zesco Limited will construct a line from Pensulo to Mansa, which I believe will be 330 Kv. Has the Government done feasibility studies as to how much it will cost it to electrify the two wards in Chitambo?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the line from Pensulo to Mansa is under planning, and as such, feasibility studies must have been carried out because we are mindful of the birds’ sanctuary in Kasanka.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

OPENING OF A MINI-HOSPITAL AT ST DOROTHY

331. Mr Katakwe asked the Minister of Health:

    (a)    when the mini-hospital at St Dorothy in Solwezi East Parliamentary Constituency will be opened to the

            public; and 

    (b)    what the cause of the delay in opening the hospital is.

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, the mini-hospital referred to is called Kasapa Mini-Hospital and was constructed under the project by NMS Infrastructure Limited. It was handed over to the Government in November 2021. The mini-hospital was opened to the public in January 2022.

Madam Speaker, the delay in opening the mini-hospital was mainly due to the lack of staff to run the mini-hospital.

 I thank you. Madam Speaker.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Thank you,Madam Speaker, for the opportunity. Am very glad because I have seen that one of the areas where – I think this is where my wife comes from, and the mini-hospital has been constructed and opened.

Madam Speaker, why is thatin some areas, hospitals have been constructed when in other areas, hospitals have been grabbed? That is all I what to know.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I did not hear the question. Maybe he can repeat it.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Nyimba, can you, please, repeat your question.

Mr Menyani Zulu: Madam Speaker, I am glad that the hospital has been opened in Solwezi East. However, my question is very simple. In Solwezi East, the facility has been built. The same people were supposed to build the same facility in Nyimba, but at the end of the day, that facility has been taken away from us. Is it that we are second class citizens? I just want a correct answer. 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We have even moved away from the hospital in question. The hon. Minister of Health.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I think the question is very important because the hon. Member is actually questioning this Government. He feels we have not constructed a hospital in his area, but we have been able to construct a hospital in Solwezi East. I said that the question is important because it is important that when we are here, we speak clearly to the public otherwise we will be misleading them.

Madam Speaker, yesterday, the hon. Minister for Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development belaboured to discuss this issue and I was very happy with the debate from the hon. Member for Chama South, who ably explained what used to happen in the past. He said that he hoped that this Administration will learn from the mistakes of the past Administration, that looked at people’s faces, regions, whether one was its friend or not and brought development, because we were voted on the premise that we will be different from our colleagues …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: … and the President in particular has made that very clear, and there is no secret about it and everybody knows. I always hear the hon. Member for Lumezitelling us that he has confidence in the President, that he wants the right things done and that we Ministers must toll that line.

I assure my hon. Colleagues on your left,Madam Speaker, that this Administration, hon. Ministers – and speaking for myself, I will not move away from that line. We shall make sure that in everything we do, there is provincial, district and constituency equity, and they will never hear that this Minister has taken something from their area and put it in her area; it will never happen. Whether it is recruitment, we will not do those things. I want my hon. Colleagues on the left to trust us on that word. If we do something that is wrong, let them bring it on the Floor of this House.

Madam Speaker, talking about Lumezi, – is it Lumezi?

Hon. Member: Nyimba.

Mr Munir Zulu: You are always talking about Lumezi.

Mrs Masebo: It is because we love the people of Lumezi. They elected a vibrant young man, who knows what is right and wrong.

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister yesterday explained that after the former Minister, Hon. Chanda, took over from the other Minister, Hon. Chilufya, he made a policy decision, because hon. Colleagues from both right and left apparently were complaining of unfairness in the distribution, and I think he took a noble step to try and correct that. That is what this Administration has continued to do; equity. There is no decision that personally I cannot defend on the Floor of this House and proudly so.

Madam Speaker, I have had meetings with some chiefs who paid courtesy calls to my office to ask me some of the decisions that we have made. I have been very straight and made a case that – and I did Madam Speaker, if you recall, state it here on the Floor of the House that we will be fair to everybody because Zambia belongs to all of us. Whether you are northern or southern, we are the same, and whether I am a Minister and you are not a Minister, we are here to serve our country together. So, in terms of development, let us help all our people throughout Zambia, regardless of which province. I think we have that obligation and I think that in the Eastern Province –I have been to the Eastern Province and, as a ministry, we have made a decision to build clinics where there was nothing because this problem of inequity was not only about east and west or south or north, even within Luapula Province, there was unequal distribution. Our job is to ensure that the ticket we were voted on is fulfilled. So, I will not digress from what the President has directed on equity and fairness. Do not say that this one is a member of the United Party for National Development (UPND) or the Patriotic Front (PF); we are all Zambians and that is what we should all do.  So, if there is an issue, just come to the office. If you have a point, we will rectify. If there is no point, I will tell you frankly. They say the truth might pain, but it is the best.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, permission to speak without a mask. I lose breath due to old age and more so that our colonisers, the British and American Parliaments, stopped wearing masks, so, permission to speak freely.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Do you have a condition, honourable?

Mr Sampa: I will try, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I brought up the mask thing because this question is posed to the hon. Minister of Health and I hope she has taken note of that.

Madam Speaker, it is good news that St Dorothy Hospital, in Solwezi East, is or will be opened. My question is: Can the hon. Minister guarantee that when that hospital is opened, the toilets of that hospital will be clean …

Laughter

Mr Sampa: …, will have tissue and will be flushing, and there be medicine. You cannot imagine a patient going to a toilet that is non-functional and there is no medicine. This concern is for the people in Solwezi East, Lumezi, Matero and all the constituencies. Can the hon. Minister guarantee that the toilets will be functional and very clean?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, that is a very important question and I like such questions because those are the issues that we should be tackling. We should be tackling issues of toilets, tissue and soap, without which, hence the various diseases that we are suffering from. We have made it a major agenda for our ministry and have even done circulars saying exactly what the hon. Member for Matero has said. So, the question might sound useless, but it is a very important.

Madam Speaker, I want to use this opportunity to speak to everybody concerned that we need to ensure that toilets in Zambian public places such as hospitals, schools, shopping malls and everywhere, have tissue and soap; those are basics. However, we work with the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, the Ministry of Education and all hon. Members of Parliament. So, when hon. Members go out campaigning, they should continue educating our people on the importance of putting soap, tissue and a dustbin, for sanitary wear for the ladies and the girl child, in a toilet. All those things are very important.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, I am so delighted to hear that St Dorothy Mini-Hospital in Solwezi will be opened very soon and the reason given by the hon. Minister for not having opened the hospital was the lack of staff. Now that the Government is employing, can the hon. Minister assure the people of Solwezi that there will be enough staff at that hospital and that the hospital will be opened?

Madam Speaker, this is not the only hospital that has been yearning to provide health services. There are so many other mini-hospitals dotted around the country, which have not been opened up to now due to the lack of staff. Can the hon. Minister assure the Zambian people that even the two mini-hospitals in Kasenengwa that are not opened yet because of the lack of staff, will also be opened even if the Government only employed twenty-nine health staff in Kasenengwa, yet the hospital needs to operate at a full capacity of seventy health staff. Can the Minister assure the Zambian people that the mini-hospitals around the country and those in St Dorothy, Chipembaulo and Luona, in Kasenengwa, will also be opened?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, this question is revealing. We now know that some people were so lucky. In one ward, they had four mini-hospitals and some had two in one constituency, yet some districts, even in Luapula had nothing. Zero! However, to answer his question, I did not say, it is yet to open. I said it was opened and it was handed over and has been functioning since January. The question was on the delay. Why was there a delay? The answer was because of issues of staff. However, for now, we have gone beyond that because we were able to pick some staff from other facilities just to help that hospital to become functional. At the end of this recruitment, it is hoped that many more mini-hospitals will be opened, and the staff even in those mini-hospitals which were opened with very little staff in terms of numbers, will be improved upon.

 Madam Speaker, in particular, his, which is the real question he wanted to ask – and the hon. Member should not be lazy; he should be asking questions. He should not ask through other people’s questions. We will open his hospital once the recruitment is done. However, if he came to the office, we could have spoken to the people on the ground and asked them whether it is possible to move some people through the Provincial Health Director and District Health Director. So, the hon. Member should be proactive.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for allowing the good people of Lumezi to inherit certain questions.

Laughter

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I know you have taken judicial notice that Lumezi is on people’s lips. It is not the first time that the Member of Parliament from Lumezi is being considered as a young man. 

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You can go ahead, hon. Member.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I assure you that I do not need to drink Kombucha.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Hon. Member, can you, please, go straight to your question because we are starting to hear other things, which we do not even know.

Hon. Opposition Members: What is Kombucha?

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I have had a similar situation in Lumezi where a hospital that should have been built in Chief Mwanya’s area was grabbed because it is in the valley and there is no road to take building materials there.

Madam Speaker, permit me to mention here that the energy levels I have supersede many of those of my male counterparts in this House.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, do you have a question?

Hon Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

We are running out of time. Hon. Member, can you, please, ask your question. We want to move forward and progress.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I am hungry for progress and success, but I am also hungry to pose a decent question to someone who may not contain me if I execute the best of my energy levels.

Laughter

Mr Sampa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, permit the good people of Lumezi to ask the hon. Minister of Health when she will stop calling us young men?

Laughter

Mr Daka (Msanzala): Madam Speaker, my question to the hon. Minister is a follow-up to the question asked by the hon. Member for Nyimba who wanted to know where the two mini-hospitals, which were grabbed from Nyimba, have been taken to?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Msanzala, if you look at the question, it is specifically about when a mini-hospital in Solwezi East will be opened to the public and what the cause of the delay in opening the hospital is. It does not say anything about grabbing some mini-hospitals from another constituency. So, we are off the question. We have moved astray.

Mr Chisanga (Lukashya):Madam Speaker, I am asking the question because I share the concern of some of the hon. Members of Parliament who do not know what transpired after the list of the redistribution of mini-hospitals was put forth. Can the hon. Minister of Health engage in the initiative of sharing that list with the hon. Members of Parliament and, by extension, with the nation so that people can know which hospitals are expected to be constructed and in which constituencies. I say so because I am one of those Members of Parliament who expected some additional mini-hospitals to be constructed in my constituency, but I keep hearing this story of the list and the redistribution of the allocation of mini-hospitals.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Although it is not part and parcel of this question, I will allow the hon. Minister to answer because it has been coming over and over that some clinics have been grabbed, others have been given while others have remained with nothing.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, this Administration under President Hakainde Hichilema is transparent and it has nothing to hide. Next week, I will bring the list here.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Bahati. Not in the House. Next question.

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, I have a follow-up question. You have not given me an opportunity.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Is that the hon. Member for Bahati?

Mr Katakwe: I have a follow-up question.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Solwezi East, do you have a question?

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, it is a follow-up question according to the procedure.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I did not see you indicate. You can go ahead.

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister said the hospital was opened and handed over, but according to my understanding, being opened and commissioned are two different things. I would like to find out if she commissioned the Kasapa Mini-Hospital, and if she did, I should have probably been invited. If she commissioned it, we would appreciate the need for an additional ambulance because, as she knows, a few days ago, we heard that measles has broken out in Solwezi East Constituency and three people died. However, in actual fact on the ground, more than thirty children have died but it has not been reported. So, there is a need for an additional ambulance because the only ambulance and the only doctor we have were somewhere in the south attending to some critical issues and we lost a mother and her child last week. So, if, indeed, she commissioned the mini-hospital, we would appreciate the need for an additional ambulance, a mortuary, a mothers’ shelter and a maternity wing at that hospital and also emergency theatre equipment as well as a blood bank. I am sure if she commissioned it, then, we would appreciate the need for all these things. Can she assure us, if at all she did, or if she will commission the Kasapa Mini-Hospital?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament is using English words to confuse us. He did not ask me whether the hospital was commissioned; he asked me whether the hospital was opened. Now, he is saying that if I commissioned it, then, I would have known that there is a need for an extra ambulance and a mortuary. That is not a fair question to me. Let us be fair to each other. We are one and we are working for the people of Zambia regardless of whether one is from the Western Province or the North-Western Province.

Madam Speaker, if there is an outbreak, then, it is a serious issue. Hon. Members of Parliament must come to the office and ask us to help them. That is why we have contingency budgets. Hon. Members should not come here after waiting three weeks for a question to come and ask using English. It is not helpful. The Ministry of Health is so important. Let us work together and support each other.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, it is your duty to bring out questions, especially those that seem to be very important in our constituencies. Let us not wait for the existing questions. We have many issues in our constituencies, so, let us bring out those questions separately so that they can be attended to.

REDEPLOYMENT OF POLICE OFFICERS TO THE KAWAMA EAST POLICE POST

332. Mr Mwila (Mufulira) asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security:

       (a)  when police officers will be redeployed to the Kawama East Police Post in Mufulira Parliamentary

             Constituency which was abandoned in 2017, following riots in the area;

       (b)   how many officers will be deployed to the police post;

       (c)    whether there are any plans to upgrade the police post to a police station; and

       (d)     if so, when the plans will be implemented.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, in 2017, there was a riot in Kawama West in Mufulira District, Copperbelt Province, in which some members of the community set ablaze Kawama Police Post in Mufulira Parliamentary Constituency. This resulted in the withdrawal of police officers as the building became inhabitable. Stakeholders have been engaged to work with the Government to renovate and operationalise Kawama Police Post. The Government is duty bound to ensure that law and order is maintained in the community and that men and women in uniform operate in a conducive environment. Therefore, police officers will be deployed to Kawama Police Post when rehabilitation works are completed. Currently, the area is being serviced by Mufulira Police Station.

Madam Speaker, once the rehabilitation is complete, nineteen officers will be deployed.

Madam Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to upgrade Kawama Police Post into a police station. To upgrade a police post into a police station, the following factors are considered:

      (a)     increase in population size;

      (b)     economic activity in the area;

      (c)    size of the catchment area and

      (d)     the distance from the main police station.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament can help mobilise resources, through the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), so that the works can be expedited.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwila: Madam Speaker, this question was actually posed in September last year and we still appreciate the response that has come now.

Madam Speaker, my main focus is the response that the hon. Minister has given to part (c). This area we are talking about is very volatile, and according to the hon. Minister’s answer to part (a), there was a riot because of insecurity concerns.The community did not feel that the police officers werehelpful enough at that time and now the entire police post has been vacated. Hon. Members may wish to note that this area covers about 30,000 people, in terms of population.

Madam Speaker, further, during the time that Parliament was adjourned, we actually recorded two deaths in this place. One body was found and the circumstances under which that person died were not known and an act of murder happened. So, people are actually living in fear for their lives because there is a lot of theft and attacks and, generally, the security situation has broken down. However, the hon. Minister said that the Government has no immediate plans to turn the police post to a police station,but I urge it to reconsider because I think that30,000 – unless the hon. Minister advises otherwise that such a population and environment may not warrant having a police station.

Madam Speaker, yes, we have taken steps to allocate some funds from the Constituency Development Funds (CDF) to ensure that the rehabilitation is done and that the place is made habitable for the officers to operate from. However, the hon. Minister’s response to part(c) is worrying and he may wish to reconsider, so that security is resorted in Kawama East.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the sentiments that the hon. Member has raised pertaining to the security situation in Kawama. That is why we have made an assurance that once the rehabilitations are done, nineteen police officers will be sent to operate from Kawama Police Station. We will also do a further assessment to see whether other security measures should be put in place in the area concerned.

I thank you,Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I will take the last three questions from the hon. Member for Matero, the hon. Member for Chembe and the hon. Member for Roan.

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, I have been in this Parliament together with the hon. Minister for a while. I cannot help but notice and commend him for the good suit he is wearing, the new culture; it is a tweed suit and is very classy.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, the issue of a police station in Mufulira –

Rev. Katuta: What about the tie?

Mr Sampa: For the tie, he just needs to change the colour to green.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, please, continue with your question.

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, the issue in Mufulira is peculiar and it was a situation in which the residents got upset over something, pounced on the police station and the police officers ran away and never pitched up again, and we had a similar incidence in Zingalume and Matero two or three years ago.

Madam Speaker, what measures is the Government putting in place to protect the men in uniform, in times when residents rise against them? Is there a button they can press for backup? Who else will protect other residents, if the police ran away and have never gone back to that police station years after years?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, allow me to take cognisance of the popularity of my colleague, Hon. Sampa, who is aspiring to be the president of the PF. According to the opinion poll, he is the number one candidate who should take over from the former President. He should keep it up. He deserves that position.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, coming to the question asked by Hon. Sampa, we are aware of the security concerns that are being expressed by members of the public and the officers themselves arising from the historical activities that used to take place previously. I assure members of the public and the police themselves that we shall not allow impunity where members of the public would want to take the law into their own hands. If they have a grievance against the police, there are procedures to follow.You do not destroy property that is intended to serve you. 

Madam Speaker, as a result of the distraction of public property in Matero, Zingalume and Kawama, as the hon. Members indicated, members of the public lost a service, which they were supposed to be provided for by the Government. I urge members of the public to ensure that they protect the property and also give support to the officers. Officers are supposed to serve the community. They are there for the community and they must be supported. However, I also want to state that when officers are deployed in certain localities, they must be seen to be working with the people. They must not be abusing the residents of those areas who they are supposed to be serving. They should abide by the rules of the country and human rights must be respected. I urge all of us hon. Members of Parliament to start educating our own people. It is not easy to rebuild what has been destroyed, but it is easy to destroy. I urge all of us to support the officers and to also educate members of the public to work together with the officers in those localities. I thank President Sampa.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Sampa: Question!

Mr C. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, we are talking about the deployment of officers at Kawama Police Post. It is not only Kawama Police Post, but many other post stations do not have officers. Some officers at Lilayi Police College and Kamfinsa Training School just graduated, and many times, we have seen about fifty or hundredofficers, just from training, deployed at the Police Headquarters, which is an administrative office, who do not know anything and do not even know what happens on the ground. In the hon. Minister’s view, as the one in charge of the ministry, is that a good idea? That is why we have certain inefficiency in the performance of the officers, especially that those officers who go direct to the headquarters do not know what happens on the ground. What is the hon. Minister’s view on that? The hundred officers who were taken to the headquarters were supposed to be deployed to Zingalume Police Post or Kawama Police Post and even other stations.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I am not going to express an option or give a view pertaining to the issue that my hon. Colleague has indicated. I will talk about policy.

Madam Speaker, the policy of the Government is that wherever police men or women are required and there are facilities that will accommodate them, we shall assign police officers to work there. I am aware that in December, we had graduates from various police training schools such as Lilayi Police College and Kamfinsa Training School. We deployed a number of police men and women to rural areas to serve areas that were in deficit, and that is what we are supposed to be doing. Even in the places under consideration, like the one my hon. Colleague has mentioned Kawama, the police officers are already in Mufulira and they are supposed to be taken to Kawama. Once Kawama Police Post is rehabilitated, the officers will be transferred and will be taken to Kawama. As for Zingalume area, where the incoming president of the PF resides, …

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu:  … we shall ensure that police officers are taken there.  

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, as much as we appreciate the hon. Minister’s responses to the concerns of the people of Kawama, I would like to find out from him as to what lessons the ministry learnt from this unfortunate incident that happened in Kawama and even in other parts of the country. Further, what is his ministry doing to avert these unfortunate incidences going forward, which may in future result in the loss of not only property, but even life?

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Before the hon. Minister comes in, there is a point of order. Is it so burning?

Mr Munir Zulu: Yes, Madam Speaker, it is.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You can go ahead.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, on a number of occasions, you have guided that this is a House of rules and procedure. Permit me to take you to Standing Order No. 206. I do not know whether the hon. Member of Parliament of the good people of Chienge qualifies to be seated comfortably in this House. After she had her tea, she came here wearing a dress which is not prescribed for under Standing Order 206 (2), and on top of that, a gown that has some material resembling a wolf.

 I seek your ruling, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I am sure that was on a lighter note.

Mr Munir Zulu: No, let her stand up.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chienge, we do not know what type of a dress you are putting on.

Rev. Katutastood up and walked to the middle of the benches.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member is not out of order, especially looking at the length of the attire. She can resume her seat.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Katutaresumed her seat.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister will answer the last question from the hon. Member for Roan.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I understand the concerns that are being expressed by my colleague, the hon. Member for Roan, pertaining to the immediate past conduct of members of the public who used to take the law into their own hands whenever they were aggrieved. One of the issues that led to such instances, for the hon. Member’s information, is the impunity that reigned during that period. Members of the public had lost confidence in the Zambia Police. Whenever there was an issue, members of the public used to believe that even if they report a matter to the Zambia Police, nothing will be done and issues will not be resolved.

Madam Speaker., we have, however, inculcated a sense of responsibility on the part of the police and educated them that they have a responsibility to provide law and order in the community. They are not there to ensure that they are worshipped by members of the public. They are there to serve. The hon. Member should take note that members of the Zambia Police Service are educated and cultured in the way they are supposed to handle members of the public. Unfortunately, in the immediate past, cadres were reigning supreme. They would go to a police station if any member of their grouping was accused and do whatever they would want to do. So, we have instructed the police to ensure that they enforce the law in accordance with the laws prevailing in this country. I am happy to report that most of the incidences that used to happen in the past have minimised. We encourage leaders in the communities to sensitise their members and we have also created an engagement between the Zambia Police and the community, where members of the community work together with the Zambia Police to provide a service. We hope that with that instruction in place, those sad incidences will not be repeated.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

CONSTRUCTION OF A DISTRICT HOSPITAL IN SENANGA

333. Mr Mutelo (Mitete) (on behalf of Mr Mulaliki (Senanga)) asked the Minister of Health:

      (a)   whether the Government has any plans to construct a district hospital in Senanga;

      (b)    if so, when the plans will be implemented; 

      (c)    what the estimated cost of the project is; and

      (e)     what the estimated timeframe for the completion of the project is.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to construct a district hospital in Senanga as there is already a general hospital to service the population in Senanga and I take it that this general hospital was initially a district hospital.

Madam Speaker, as stated in (a),the Government has no immediate plans to construct a district hospital in Senanga and, therefore, questions (b), (c) and (d) fall off.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, this question is similar to a question that was once posed by the hon. Member for Itezhi-Tezhi. It is quite unfortunate that Hon. Mulaliki is not in the House today. It seems we are taking the people of the Western Province for a ride.

Madam Speaker, under a normal set up, the hon. Minister should have consulted the area Member of Parliament, especially that they are from the same wing of the Government; they are both from the Ruling Party. When an Member of Parliament poses such a question, who he is not Independent and not from the Patriotic Front (PF) Party, but from their own wing, it means that there is a problem.

 Madam Speaker, most of the hon. Minister’s colleagues who enjoy the privilege of being called the Executive arm of the Government are not doing enough to engage the Back-benchers. We have a problem in Senanga and the hon. Minister responded that a district hospital is what was turned into whatever she termed.

Madam Speaker, can the hon. Minister give hope to the Zambian people. The answer she has given is based on what the technocrats at the ministry gave her. If, indeed, the hon. Member of Parliament of the good people of Senanga knew that there was a hospital, he was not going to come here and ask that question. Last time, the hon. Minister delegated authority to Hon. Mtolo Phiri to answer on her behalf. Today, she is here and she has given the simplest answer. However, there is no such a hospital that the hon. Minister referred to.

Madam Speaker, I suggest that we look at Standing Orders 207 (c), on contempt of the House.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is your question, hon. Member?

Mr Munir Zulu:Madam Speaker, the House is being misled.How do I ask a question? Permit me to open the Standing Orders because I almost raised asimilar issue today and I was told that it passed right Madam Speaker, but I am correcting an anomaly before the day expires.

Madam First Deputy Speaker:  Hon. Member, I do not know which direction you are heading to, because this is now time for supplementary questions. If you do not have a supplementary question, you can maybe raise a point of order.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, thank you for the guidance. Permit me then to ask a question. Is the hon. Minister in order to mislead the House by saying that there is a hospital, when that is not being truthful?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: That is not actually a question because it ended like it is a point of order. So, I do not think it is fair for the hon. Minister to answer your question in that form. It is even better if you raised your question maybe in another way so that the hon. Minister can respond. However, you have raised it like a point of order, which the hon. Minister cannot answer.

Mr J. Chibuya: Madam Speaker, I hope the hon. Minister is paying attention. For Hon. Mulaliki to ask this question, yes, there could be a general hospital there but has the hon. Minister taken time to find out as to what the population of this district is, whether the general hospital is able to cater for the same population or the hon. Member is actually saying that the health service facilities are not equating to the population that is in the district. Is the hon. Minister able to tell the ratio in terms of population and the general hospital which is there?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the supplementary question.

Madam Speaker, the question was whether the Government has any immediate plans to construct a district hospital in Senanga. We are looking at the 2022 Budget and my answer was factual that we do not have any immediate plans for this year because in our humble understanding, we think that in terms of the structure, there is a general hospital which is currently servicing the people.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member asked if I took time to check the population and somebody said these are answers by civil servants. Of course, civil servants service us; they are the ones who write answers for us and there is nothing sinister about that. It is their job except to say that we have structures of health facilities. A smallest health facility is called a health post and it caters for a small community. Above that, there is what is called a rural health centre or an urban health centre, depending whether it is rural or urban. Above that, there is now what we are calling a mini- hospital, which is slightly bigger than an urban or rural health centre. Above that, we have level one, then, we have level two and, lastly, we have level three.

Madam Speaker, level one is what is referred to as a district hospital, level two is what we refer to as a provincial hospital, normally at the provincial headquarters, and then level three is what we refer to as a tertiary hospital. So, if in an area there is for example a district hospital, somebody cannot come and ask for a provincial hospital when in actual fact it is Chongwe District because provincial hospitals are in Lusaka. In the districts, there are district hospitals.

I know that in that past, there has been some confusion,Madam Speaker. It is a confused kind of arrangement and we are trying to redefine some of these terms, to take into account the reality on the ground like the hon. Member is asking about like population and what facilities are there, whether there are mini-hospitals, rural or urban. We will also take into account if there is any health facility from the Church Health Association of Zambia (CHAZ) because we work closely. So, for example, if there is a district hospital under the CHAZ, a faith-based organisation, the Government will not again go and put up another district hospital next door because we work together. Wehave to look at the whole country and ask ourselves that if we give Senanga this year, what about the situation in Chama and Shangombo? So, we have to look at the whole country. We are not looking at whether one comes from the United Party for National Development (UPND) like they were doing themselves. We are not doing those things.

Madam Speaker, this Administration is methodical and we also want fairness and equity. So, you must understand. We do not just pick because somebody is from the Western Province, therefore, everything is automatic; there is nothing like that. We want to look after the whole country because mind you, even if you are doing well in Copperbelt Province, if you are doing badly in the Western Province, your bench marks as a country – they will say you have not done well maybe in the mother and child issues, and the maternal mortality is still high. So, you have to look at the whole country and to be fair. We are talking about universal health coverage and that is why we are going the decentralisation mode because we want everything to happen in all the 116 districts, 156 constituencies and the ten provincial centres. We want equity. So, this is not a Government of regionalism like you were doing. No.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has categorically said there are no immediate plans to build a hospital. However, in the long run, will the people of Senanga have a hospital bearing in mind that Mitete was not equitably given even a mini-hospital?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, indeed,we have mid-term and long-term plans to ensure that we assess the whole nation and see where health service provision is worse than the other. So, if in a district, province or constituency there are three health facilities, like we kept hearing here how in one constituency there are seven mini-hospitals or fourteen mini-hospitals, then, it means that area has to wait a little bit, in as far the construction of more health facilities. Then, we now have to go to Nyimba and Senanga to hear what the story is there. However, going forward, we shall come and give you our plan of action for the next five years so that you are able to see what will be done in the next two or three years.

Madam Speaker, we want to do things properly because we know that we are here today, and tomorrow we may not be here. We are not excited about being in the Government. No! We just want to use the Government to deliver for our children, their children and grandchildren. That is why we are there; to serve the people of Zambia. Our President is very clear about that mission, andthat is why you see that he is not excited about State House, planes or clothes.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.  

Laughter

Ms Lungu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker:  A point of order is raised.

Ms Lungu: Madam Speaker, I rise on Standing Order No. 65 (1)(b) and it states as follows:

       "1. A member who is debating shall –

                a. ensure that the information he or she provides to the House is factual and verifiable."

Madam Speaker,is the hon. Minister of Health in order to insinuate that the Patriotic Front (PF) operated on regionalism without providing evidence before this House.

I seek your ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I think we are taking too much of our time, like I had guided earlier on, talking about what this party did and what this one will do, and this is really delaying us. Please, let us stick to what we are supposed to be discussing. Let us not even mislead our people. Let us focus on the issue at hand. Earlier, I had guided that this system of bringing old things unnecessarily will delay us and it will also distract us to handle the issue at hand. With that guidance, we can move forward so that we make progress.

 Mr Miyutu(Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, my question is in relation to the description of the types of health facilities mentioned by the hon. Minister. In relation to the question, where the hon. Member wanted to know whether the Government has any immediate plans to construct a district hospital, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what differencedoes it make to have a general hospital in a district and also to have a district hospital. Are they similar or they are different?

 Mrs Masebo: They are different, Madam Speaker, in that a general hospital is bigger than a district hospital. For example, Levy Mwanawasa Hospital was a general hospital, but it was upgraded and it is now a tertiary hospital.

 Madam Speaker, you have guided that we should not go backwards, except that some of the examples are important. However, we made pronouncements and said that a hospital which was atlevel onebe atlevel two and that that was at level twobe atlevel three without really doing anything about that. So, there are many discrepancies and some people are asking for a general hospital or a district hospital without really analysing what they need, whether it is a mini-hospital or a general hospital.So, a provincial hospital can also be rated as a general hospital. Like I said, a district hospital is level one. Level two can be said to be a general hospital, and level three can be said to be a tertiary hospital. However, when you really analyse, there are many imbalances, andas the Government, we are currently looking at this whole scenario. It is actually causing a lot of concern. For example, many people have asked why there is no mortuary at a mini-hospital because the need for a mortuary seems to be very high and justifiably so. So, I assure hon. Members that we are looking at all these issues holistically and we will come back here to inform everybody in terms of policy and how we are going to move. However, just have the comfort that if your area, regardlessof where you come from, deserves a hospital, you will get it. In this Administration, whether one belongs to the PF or the UPND, it is not an issue when it comes to government implementation. The issue is whether truly and truthfully Chawama needs a clinic or not. That is the issue here.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

REHABILITATION OF THE MPIKA/KOPA ROAD

334. Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

(a)  when rehabilitation of the Mpika/Kopa Road in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency will commence; and

(b) what the cause of the delay in commencing the project is.

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu) (on behalf oftheMinister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo)): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that the Government is currently in the process of formulating a ten-year road sector implementation plan. This plan is meant to realign the procurement and implementation periods of the various feeder road projects across the country. Once the plan has been finalised and approved, the House will be informed accordingly.

Madam Speaker, the formulation process of the ten-year road sector implementation plan and the tight fiscal space is causing delays in the commencement and implementation of the road sector projects.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, allow me to thank the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, who is the Acting Minister of Local Government and Rural Development.

Madam Speaker, it is gratifying to hear that there is a ten-year road sector implementation plan underway. As the hon. Minister knows very well, the former President of the United States of America (USA), President John F. Kennedy, said it not our wealth that built our roads but it is our roads that built our wealth. The road we are talking about leads to one of Zambia’s largest plantation, and I think it is the only plantation, the Zampalm Oil Plantation in Kanchibiya Constituency, where the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC) owns 90 per cent shares. The same road we are talking about leads us to the Bangweulu Wetlands, that is in the context of tourism. This road is very critical because it provides the shortest linkage to Central Province. In future, this road can be easily linked to Tuta Road and there can be easy access and connectivity to the Copperbelt Province. What is critical for us is to also understand what timeframe has been attached to the formulation of the ten-year road sector implementation plan. When do we expect this plan to come to fruition because this is not just going to benefit the people of Kanchibiya but several other rural constituencies?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kanchibiya for raising that very important supplementary question. I assure my hon. Colleague that the Government has taken note of the issues he has raised, in particular, the importance of this road. We are in a hurry to come up with a road sector implementation programme to ensure that there is a methodical way of dealing with roads in the country. Hon. Members might have heard the incumbent hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development lamenting on the Floor of this House that certain companies and individuals were awarded contracts to do road networks in this country. Roads were fully paid for but no rehabilitations were done. We are reviewing all those processes that were done. Once we finalise, we will come back to the House and inform the nation how we are going to proceed.

Madam Speaker, thisproject is so important that it will not take long for us to complete. We will come back to inform the House – We have to note that this is the only timeline we have before the rainy season for us to start rehabilitating the roads. I have no doubt in my mind that my ministry and the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development will come up with a plan to ensure that most roads in rural areas are motorable.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, it is again gratifying to have the hon. Minister make reference to the rainy season and those of us from rural constituencies only have the month of July up to October. Beyond October, we expect the onset of the rains and the road which is already in a deplorable state will become completely impassable. We are ready, from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) aspect of things, to work on the worst portions of this road but even that will not be sustainable because that road requires huge capital investment and whatever we will plough in will be washed away by the rains. So, immediately after the rains whatever we would have put in to maintain this road to a motorable state will have been washed away. It is our prayer that even as they clean the process, according to the hon. Minister’s words, the people of Kanchibiya will not be punished for the sins of those who could not have delivered on the contracts which were given. So, my appeal to the hon. Minister is that as soon as this process is concluded, he should remember this road. This road is important, as I said. For purposes of sounding like a broken record, I have raised issues around Zampalm with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. This project is critical to the Government in ensuring that Zambia is positioned as a strategic net exporter of palm oil. So, with those remarks, I call on the hon. Minister to ensure that he remembers this road and the people of Kanchibiya.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I assure the hon. Member for Kanchibiya that the New Dawn Government will not forget the people of Kanchibiya. I am happy to note that my colleague has offered to do holding maintenance on this road as we make plans to rehabilitate it. We, as the New Dawn Government, will ensure that all areas of this country benefit from the developmental projects of the New Dawn Government under President Hakainde. The people of Kanchibiya have not done anything against the New Dawn Government.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: They deserve a service from this Government, and we shall ensure that they benefit like any other members of this country Zambia.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, ah, the people of Chilubi are losing a bit of patience.

Mr Chaatila: Ah!

Mr Fube: You can say ah! I know English I will talk.

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

Laughter

Mr Fube: Aha!

Madam Speaker, they are losing a bit of patience about the romantic exchange between the Acting hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development and the hon. Member of Parliament for Kanchibiya on this critical road. I say critical because, currently, the price of edible oil in the country is exorbitant and prohibitive for a common Zambian. Looking at that place, that is where Zamanita Limited has a plantation. Having said that, I want to state that the same road which is going to be subjected to another ten-year plan is going to meet into, – it even exceeds the Vision 2030 because it is going into 2032. Apart from that, two weeks ago, the Government launched the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP).

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

Interruptions

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, can I be protected from such murmurs. Yes, what I am saying here is very serious business.

Hon. Member: Question iwe!

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, I seek your protection.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you are protected.

Mr Fube:Madam Speaker, what I am trying to draw at, is that, the people of Chilubi are dissatisfied with the romantic exchange that is going on between the hon. Member of Parliament for Kanchibiya and the Acting hon. Minister, especially that in that area, currently, that is the project we can bank on.

Madam First Deputy Speaker:Order!

(Debate adjourned)

_______

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President(Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1911 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 9^th June, 2022.

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