Wednesday, 15^th December, 2021

 

The House met at 0900 hours

 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

 

_______

 

MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

 

UNZA STUDENTS PROTEST

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance on behalf of the people of Chama North Constituency.

 

Madam Speaker, yesterday, some students from the University of Zambia (UNZA), Great East Road Campus staged a protest against the decision by the Higher Education Loans and Scholarships Board (HELSB) to award loans to only a few students, leaving out 8,004 students for the 2022 academic calendar.

 

Madam Speaker, this matter has raised public interest, and I have actually been receiving numerous calls from my constituency. I also believe that hon. Members in this august House are also receiving similar calls. I presume that the New Dawn Government attaches great importance to the education sector because education is not just an equalizer but also an investment. Is the New Dawn Government going to intervene in this matter so that the 8,004 students who are in limbo can also be beneficiaries to this facility?

 

I seek your indulgence, Madam.

 

Madam Speaker: I thank the hon. Member for Chama North for raising that issue. Whereas I agree that the matter is important and may be urgent, it does not meet the criterion for raising a matter of urgent public importance in accordance with Standing Order No. 134 because there is no calamity that will result if the Government does not do anything today. So, under the circumstance, the hon. Member is advised to use other means of raising this matter, which is important, but does not fall under Standing Order 134.

 

I thank you.

 

LOOMING DROUGHT IN THE NATION

 

Mr Fube: I rise on a matter of urgent public importance after perusing Standing Order No.134 as read together with Standing Order No.135. The matter concerns the looming crisis in the nation caused by an act of God, which is drought.

 

Madam Speaker, I am sure that if we looked back, we would realise that by now, we would have had rains all over the country. I think this is not something that has been caused by the Government or anyone, but it is an act of God, as I have stated. We also realise that people have gone ahead to plant maize, some of which has started withering. There was a programme where the Government needed to raise some money to facilitate the payment of those who supplied maize to the Food Reserve Agency (FRA). I hope that window has been stopped from being looked into.

 

Madam Speaker, even then, if that window has been stopped, in terms of exporting maize, we still have a crisis. If I peruse my record, I find that sometime back, about fifty-eight districts were threatened with hunger in the country and with the situation that we have, we may be caught in a serious crisis. This is so because in places where it has rained, the rain has been stormy, meaning that it is also likely to leave a trail of disaster, which will put the Vice President Office under pressure. I was of the idea that the Government should tabulate and take up certain measures because in other arrangements, we would be talking about crop insurance and many other factors.

 

Madam Speaker, I am raising this matter because I know that the citizenry needed to be psychologically prepared by the policies and the steps that the Government will tabulate at this point so that it can rally behind the Government for any measures that it may take in future.

 

I rest the matter and seek your guidance, Madam.

 

Madam Speaker: Thank you hon. Member for Chilubi. Unfortunately, the matter that has been raised does not fall under Standing order 134. Since it relates to the general situation in the country; there is drought all over, as the hon. Member has rightly pointed out, it is an act of God, there is no measure that the Government can take to ensure that tomorrow, we have some rain. So, everybody is concerned about the rain, but I do not believe that the Government can do anything to ensure that we have rainfall. So, that matter does not qualify. Maybe, the hon. Member can ask a question during the Vice President’s Question Time on Friday or he can put in a written question.

 

Thank you.

_______

 

MOTION

 

INTRODUCE LEGISLATION FOR REGULATING YOUTH EMPOWERMENT INITIATIVES

 

Mr Fube (Chilubi) Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House urges the Government to introduce legislation to regulate youth empowerment initiatives.

 

Madam Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

 

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

 

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, let me begin by thanking you for according me the opportunity to move this progressive and non-controversial Private Members’ Motion urging the Government to introduce legislation to regulate youth empowerment initiatives.

 

Madam Speaker, I am cognisant that the youthful stage is the optimum period in the human life cycle when individuals possess immense energy and they are potentially viable for wealth and job creation. In this regard, enhancing youth participation the world over is a viable option for economic growth and transformation. It is therefore, incumbent upon Governments to effectively and efficiently harness maximum dividends from the youth in the task of nation building and Zambia is not exempted in this line.

 

Madam Speaker, many prosperous countries in the world today, at one point in history, made a collective decision to mainstream youth participation in their development agenda. Countries such as China, Indonesia and Rwanda have placed their youth at the centre of national development. For instance, Rwanda banked on the youth to rebuild its economy to standards that are admired globally today.

 

Madam, I am aware that the Government through line ministries has undertaken several interventions directed towards engaging youth to participate in the economic affairs of the country. The interventions include the formulation of national policies to mitigate the growing challenges of inequality, unemployment and underemployment. The others are:

 

1. establish the Youth Development Fund;
2. formulation of the 2015 National Youth Policy;
3. the Action Plan for Youth Empowerment and Employment; and
4. establishment of the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission.

 

There are also many other initiatives that the Government has taken that are linked to the youth because they are also citizens of Zambia.

 

Madam, however, many of these interventions have failed to yield desirable outcomes in the past owing to fragmented, uncoordinated and intermittent funds allocated towards these activities and programmes. In addition, youth empowerment initiatives are not anchored on legislation to regulate the conduct of disbursement including monitoring and evaluation. Most of the youth initiatives are scattered in different areas and, depending on the fiscal weather of that year, the youth initiatives can either be withdrawn or not.

 

Madam Speaker, our population pyramid is mainly dominated by the youth. When I talk about the youth, I am talking about the age group between 15 and 35. This age group, as I earlier stated, forms a significant population and provides an opportunity for the Government to target it in terms of growth.

 

Madam, Zambia has a relatively high rate of youth unemployment in the Sub-Saharan region. Most labour surveys that have been taken have established that Zambia is still lacking in that area. The Government has made a lot of efforts to address youth unemployment and underemployment but we are still lagging behind.

 

Madam Speaker, the increasing rate of youth unemployment and lack of funding may continue to inhibit youth participation in economic affairs even further. In addition, these revelations suggest that interventions being implemented by the Government may not be sufficient to stimulate youth participation and mitigate the state of youth inequality in the country.

 

Madam, whereas the current Government has good intentions to improve youth productivity in the country, the following challenges need to be attended to:

 

1. many of the youth still find it difficult to access start-up capital to grow their businesses, meaning they cannot graduate to be captains of businesses;
2. the funding for youth programmes is fragmented, haphazard and sometimes inadequate;
3. the institutional framework where the line ministries are allowed to operate credit facilities for youth funds is not appropriate as it makes it very difficult to effectively implement and it is not user friendly;
4. the Youth Development Fund lacks dedicated personnel appropriately trained to manage the loan facility;
5. the existing structure does not provide for an adequate monitoring and evaluation framework that can follow-up on the beneficiaries as well as measure the impact of the funds in order to draw lessons and make necessary policy changes and legal frameworks;
6. there is a lack of complementary support services to enhance the potential for business survival. In this regard, the youth empowerment programmes do not have the capacity and complimentary services such as proper entrepreneurship training with adequate modules on various aspects of business planning and management to empower youths, especially those engaging in businesses for the first time; and
7. the involvement of politicians in the disbursement of youth funds has negatively influenced the public perception of the fund and its potential as a youth economic empowerment vehicle. This is because the fund is highly linked to political structures which make the youth think funds are a political appeasement or reward.

 

Madam Speaker, with the aforementioned challenges, youth empowerment remains a daunting task hence the Motion urging the Government to rethink and remodel the current approach to youth empowerment. In view of this, there is an urgent need for the Government to undertake proactive and practical measures to boost youth participation in economic affairs by introducing legislation for regulating youth initiatives.

 

Madam, let me now narrow down to what is suggested to be undertaken. In order to attain this aspiration, I urge the Government to consider the following measures:

 

Enact a Youth Empowerment Act

 

This, among other objectives, should provide for the establishment of a youth bank which should also be anchored on the same legal framework. Further, the Act should provide for a mechanism to anchor youth empowerment initiatives under a single entity with legislative authority to allocate, disburse, monitor and evaluate youth projects. This entails restructuring the current youth financing and support mechanisms which, in the last few years, have drastically declined due to some audit queries. In addition, the Act will help to mitigate the complicated task of loan assessment, disbursement and recovery, which line ministries have failed to execute in the last two decades;

 

Conducting Periodical Research and Development on Youth Empowerment

 

Preliminary studies conducted by the Zambia Institute for Policy Analysis and Research (ZIPAR) revealed that the Youth Development Fund Programme was premised on the flawed assumption that money was the panacea to youth unemployment and is the only impediment to the youth taking up business opportunities. However, it has been realised that the programme would have yielded better results had the Government provided other resources like business development services, practical youth entrepreneurship training, information dissemination, monitoring, coaching and use of digital tools.

 

Madam Speaker, let me conclude by asking all hon. Members to support this non-controversial Motion as it provides practical means to Zambia to enhance youth participation in economic activities.

 

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

 

Madam Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

 

Mr Munir. Zulu: Yes, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Do you want to speak now or later?

 

Mr Munir. Zulu: Yes, I am ready, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Say now!

 

Mr Munir. Zulu: Now, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving the people of Lumezi a chance to second such a progressive and non-controversial Motion.

 

Madam Speaker, permit me to mention that from the outset, I whole heartedly support this Motion for so many reasons. I stand here as a youth representing the youths of Zambia, not only those of Lumezi. I stand in this privileged House, the peoples House, where even those that know that we are fathers cannot be called young men because, if given a chance, we can father children in this House. I have just not been given a chance.

 

Madam Speaker, on firm grounds –

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, is that a threat?

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, it is not a threat.

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: Proceed.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I am building the reasons this Motion should be supported.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, proceed. It was on a lighter note.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, we note that the Government of the New Dawn has been preaching youth empowerment and fixing the problems that youths are facing but there is no legal framework. We have seen in the past. I stand on your left side where hon. Colleagues shifted from your right because they failed to do the right thing. We need to take advantage of our hon. Colleagues now on your right to do that which is right.

 

Madam Speaker, the behaviour of hon. Colleagues that are normally on your right historically shows that they do not give youths a chance to prove themselves. What this piece of legislation intends to do is to cure a defect in most of these procurement systems in the sense that the money that the people on your left get as a commission from suppliers and contractors be used to create a youth bank. A bank that youth can go to with our collateral and procure that which they intend to supply to Government or any other firm without money touching those individuals.

 

Madam Speaker, this issue is not only in Zambia. Zimbabwe, Kenya, Tunisia, and Mali have done it. Why should we not do it? I know there will be an issue to say a component of youth empowerment has been taken care of in the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). There is an argument that the ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts has a component of Youth Fund Initiative – 

 

Mr Jamba: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, this House is premised on facts which can be laid on the Table not insinuations.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member who is speaking now, is trying to insinuate that people on your right get money from suppliers. Is he able to lay evidence on the Table because that is a very serious allegation?

 

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling. Is the hon. Member in order to start insinuating that people are getting money from suppliers. 

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member of Parliament for Mwembeshi, have you cited any standing order under which you are raising that point of order? Anyway, just for the sake of progress, hon. Member of Parliament for Lumezi, as you debate, please remain factual and do not make insinuations that are not supported as you second the Motion.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, thank you so very much. Evidence is all legal means exclusive of mere arguments that tend to prove an allegation or matter of fact. Evidence could be circumstantial. So –

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, do not debate the guidance. You have been guided can you stick to the facts not theory. Proceed.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, not to distract my thought of thinking. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence that can show that the people I am seated with here –

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, can you second the Motion. Second the Motion because you have time. Proceed and concentrate on seconding the Motion. Do not make insinuations. If you have evidence, you can lay it on the Table but if you do not, please stick to seconding the Motion.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, it is a sad day for the youths of Zambia that people are quick to shoot down that which intends to uplift their livelihood by the behaviour of those objecting to distract my line of thinking. I was on firm ground as I was raising my point, but these unnecessary orders and interjections are meant to distract me and I shall not be distracted.

 

Madam Speaker, it is not easy for a youth to be in this House and for me to have defeated giants, with stolen money, to be in this House, I will not be intimidated by hon. Colleagues on your right.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, you are protected. Please proceed and second the Motion. Do not feel intimidated.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, as I second this Motion, I want the youths  of Zambia to believe and listen to us that at the most crucial period in history we stood up to support that which is right. In supporting that which is right we are trying to help the New Dawn Government to curb corruption. The money that colleagues get as commission as much as there is no corruption because you cannot prove a commission to be corrupt, we are saying take that money to  a youth bank that will capital that youths can use to supply and make their profit.

 

Madam Speaker, we are saying that can we take the money that we have removed from Mineral Royalty Tax to a bank for youths so that youths in this country are able to access certain opportunities that have been classified for a selected few. They will tell us to say we will tell the youths of Zambia that the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Art has money meant for empowerment. However, in the past, we have seen that money has only been given to Constituency Chairperson and District Youth Chairperson. A youth that is not politically inclined has no access to that money. We are saying can we have a legislature in place that is going to take care of Zambian youth. Whether you are from the Forum for Democracy and Development (FDD), the Patriotic Front (PF) and United Party for National Development (UPND) but you should have access just like any other has access to that money. The way this money –

 

Madam Speaker, if we are going to rely on CDF, like it or not I am a human being, I will have undue influences on how the bursary is given and how the youth loan will be given out. It is the nature of man to protect their own. So, we are saying can we have a legislature in place that will supersede individual interest and put the interest of the youths of Zambia first. Can we for once agree to disagree that we shall not draft laws on partisan lines? That is the line of thought and based on that, I second this Motion and I hope and pray that those who do not give youths or young men in this House a chance to have conjugal rights can give the youths a chance on this Motion and support it.

 

I thank you.

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: Anyway, my lips are sealed.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, I thank you very much for the opportunity to allow the people of Luena to debate this Motion.

 

Madam Speaker, the Motion is seeking to urge the Government to enact legislation which will main-stream the participation of youths in the economy of this nation.

 

Madam Speaker, before I go far with my debate, I observe that our hon. Colleagues on your left seem to have taken advantage of the great opportunity this House provides to raise Motions. This opportunity, if used properly, is something that would benefit the nation at large, but they are using it to politick, and in fact, expose themselves. I will demonstrate that just now. They seem to have taken an attitude that all the mess they created in the last ten years should be resolved by this Government within a few months, and they want to do so through Motions.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Anakoka: Madam Speaker, it is surprising and unbelievable sometimes.

 

Madam Speaker, the mover of the Motion has actually described what has been obtaining in the last ten years. He, in his own words, said that youth empowerment was underfunded, uncoordinated, lacked accountability, and was highly politicised. He is basically saying it was incompetently managed.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Anakoka: Now he brings up a Motion that seeks to urge this Government to continue along the same line of incompetence.

 

Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government will not continue on the path that the Patriotic Front (PF) left. We have not forgotten how the hon. Members on the left used to carry money in trunks to go to the markets and lining up our men and women in the markets to give them hand outs as though their survival depended on their personal benevolence. This Government is a methodical Government.

 

Madam Speaker, the proposal is already taken care of. This Government has placed youths at the centre of everything it does. In fact, this Government, first of all, seeks to ensure that the youths participate –

 

Mr Fube: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, I am rising on a point of order based on Standing Order No. 65. Is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to misrepresent my thought wave because many of the things he has said, I do not think I said them. I think I was objective enough. My Motion is non-partisan and is informed by my being a youth activist for so many years.

 

Madam Speaker, is he in order to insinuate that I am raising this Motion because I belong to the left? Is this how we are going to operate in this House?

 

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member is debating according to his understanding of what you have presented before the House. You will be given an opportunity to reply. So at that time you can address those concerns.

 

The hon. Member for Luena may proceed.

 

Mr Anakoka: Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government is methodically proceeding on the development of youth empowerment policies. We are aware that as we speak right now, the New Dawn Government has specifically allocated a portion of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to youths, a CDF that has broken a record in terms of the quantity of money that has been made available to our youths in the rural areas.

 

Madam Speaker, we know that the youth empowerment programmes that were carried out in the past did not even reach our youths in the rural areas. It is as if they were not part and parcel of the youth in this country. It was restricted to a few politically connected youths. This New Dawn Government wants the youth empowerment programmes to reach all the corners of the country. That is why in the CDF, there is a component for youth empowerment. Youths will have an opportunity to participate in doing business with the Government through co-operatives and the youth groups that they are forming.

 

Madam Speaker, we have many other empowerment programmes: the Bus Drivers Empowerment Programme, the Marketeers Empowerment Programme, and the Youth Skills Development Empowerment Programme. All these are intended to ensure that the youths do not only improve their livelihood now but are able to increase capacity and participate in the mainstay of the economy going forward.

 

Madam Speaker, this Government is alive to the fact that youths do not remain youths forever and therefore, there is need to empower them for their future sustainability. So, the suggestion or the Motion that is on the Floor of the House to urge the Government to enact a law cannot be supported. There is an adequate legislative framework in this country at the moment to ensure that youths are empowered without necessarily introducing another Act of Parliament.

 

Madam Speaker, the methodical approach that this Government has taken is something that many of our hon. Colleagues on your left will take time and probably will need some orientation in order for them to understand. This Government will not continue on the chipante pante approach. In other words, it will be a Government that will be working in a methodical way.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, what does “chipante pante” mean?

 

Mr Anakoka: Madam Speaker, I am told chipante pante in another words is mutakafululele ...

 

Laughter

 

Mr Anakoka: ... or kicking, kicking. It is going without knowing whether you are going or coming. This Government knows where it is going and it is going forward.

 

The Patriotic Front (PF), Madam Speaker –

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Anakoka: Thank you very much.

 

Madam Speaker, this Motion is one that cannot be supported, and therefore, I propose that this Motion should not receive any support for the reasons that I have highlighted. I am sure that even the proposer and the mover of this Motion knew that all they were doing was to try and poke the Government thinking that, as a result, it will probably be shaken.

 

Madam Speaker, this Government is resolute and it will remain steadfast and focused on the deliverables that were highlighted by the President when he came to address this august House on the occasion of the official opening of this House this year, that youths will remain the mainstay of our focus because the future of this nation depends on the capacity we create in the youths. I, therefore, wish to conclude by stating that I do not support this Motion.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, when I was aspiring to contest elections as an hon. Member of Parliament, my understanding was that I would come to this House and be given the opportunity to contribute to debates that will advance the agenda for a better Zambia regardless of my political affiliation. What I am seeing from my hon. Colleagues, especially the hon. Member for Luena, is that every Motion that comes to the Floor of the House, he always rises to object it because he a member of the United Party for National Development (UPND). I am a very sad hon. Member of Parliament –

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Order, order!

 

Hon. Member, just debate on facts. Do not debate each other. Let us maintain some harmony in the House, please.

 

Mr Kang’ombe: I will proceed in contributing to the debate on the Floor of the House.

 

Madam Speaker, if steps have been taken in the past, whether it is for the last fifteen years or the last twenty years or the last thirty years, and those steps have not yielded the right outcomes, those of you who are experienced in legislation will agree that corrections have to be made to ensure that there is impact on steps that have been taken in the past. So, if today the House is saying that the steps that have been taken in the past have not been adequate in ensuring that young people are empowered, there is no need to politicise a Motion.

 

Madam Speaker, if for the last twenty years or last twenty-five years or last five years or last ten years, steps that were taken to empower young people have not yielded the right results, there is no harm in all of us accepting that we need to put in place corrective measures. That is the role of this Parliament. The role of this Parliament is to ensure that there is impact on things that should affect our people, and that is why we have to tap into the wisdom of those parliamentarians who have been here before; those who served in the last Government and those who served in the other Government. The idea is to come up with legislation that impacts our people.

 

 

So, looking at the Motion moved by Hon. Fube and having read the various instruments he has highlighted like the National Youth Policy and other documents that have been developed over the last few years and how they now need to be consolidated into legislation, I see nothing wrong with such a proposal. In my opinion, the ministry in charge of the youths should go and sit down and look at it or reflect on it. By law, the hon. Member of Parliament has the right to move a Motion not because he is a member of the Patriotic Front (PF) or he was part of the previous Parliament, but he thinks that this Motion contains details that affect our people. The idea of reducing Parliament to a battlefront for the United Party for National Development (UPND) and the PF should come to an end. That should not be allowed. We should continue debating issues knowing very well that they affect our people.

 

Madam Speaker, when an hon. Minister comes to this House, for instance, with proposals and suggestions that will help his/her ministry deliver, those of us here should support those ideas and suggestions if we think they are good for the nation. The same should apply and we should see the right participation in terms of support when good ideas are brought before the Floor of the House, which we think when implemented will benefit our people. Ideally, we want to empower the young people not just from PF held constituencies but across the 156 constituencies.

 

Madam Speaker, I appeal to this august House – yes, we can do politics here, and I know that others will say that that is what they used to do. I was not a Member of Parliament in the last five years but I am now a Member of Parliament. I will not be restricted to bring Motions to this House if I think they will benefit the people, even if they will be shot down on this Floor of the House. People now have access to what we discuss. The young people are hearing our submissions and they are saying that this is good for them, and can the Government provide legislation for them as young people? There is nothing wrong with that. Even if we are seeing this matter with political lenses, deep down in our hearts we know that our young people deserve better.

 

Madam Speaker I may sound very emotional because I am very disappointed because other hon. Members of Parliament whose mandate is to enact legislation are forgetting their mandate on this Floor of the House. The Floor of this House should be used to change the lives of our people. The young people in Livingstone are watching and they want legislation that will ensure that the past steps that were taken finally have an impact.

 

Madam Speaker, the young people in the constituencies are watching. They want to see all the progressive steps that have been taken be consolidated into legislation. There is nothing wrong with such a proposal. Our colleagues should give a reason for not accepting a proposal and not say that they are bringing things they failed to do through Motions. That is unacceptable. The people want to see the PF, UPND, Party of National Unity and Progress (PNUP) and Independent hon. Members of Parliament work together, for the good of this society.

 

Madam Speaker, when the hon. Minister of Health brought a report on the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19), we supported it because it affects our people. We debated objectively because it affected our people. The same should apply to any other legislation that is not controversial. The idea that Hon. Elvis Nkandu is from the UPND, so I should object everything that he says should not be allowed. When Hon. Elvis Nkandu brings proposals that are good for the people, I should support him because they affect my people in Kamfinsa.

 

Madam Speaker, as I summarise my support for this Motion, I appeal to the hon. Members – we have had the United National Independence Party (UNIP) Government, the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD) Government and we now have the UPND Government. If the ideas of Hon. Fube, Hon. Kampyongo or Hon. Menyani Zulu are good, do not look at them with political lenses. We should simply appreciate the ideas and say this is good for our people.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, the people of Kalabo want to contribute to the Motion on the Floor of the House moved by the hon. Member for Chilubi, urging the House to enable the Executive to come up with legislation for regulating youth empowerment initiatives.

 

Madam Speaker, this House is basically known for enacting legislation. However, what we need to do is find out what is important for the youths in this country. The Motion has been moved by a respected hon. Member who knows quite well that in the last ten years, they were mandated to care for the same youths we are talking about today.

 

Madam Speaker, how many years did the former Government take to release the Youth Empowerment Fund? Is it not true that the same Government suspended youth empowerment funds, knowing that the youths are vulnerable? In their own naked eyes and knowledge, they suspended the Youth Empowerment Fund.

 

Madam Speaker, when moving the Motion, the hon. Member highlighted the challenges and he used the word ‘failed’’, which I feel occurred in the previous regime. In contrast, the New Dawn Government in the 2022 Budget being considered on the Floor of the House has shown the interest to serve the youths diligently and pragmatically, and not just by theory. For the first time, the youths are going to be empowered physically and not on paper. The youths have always been served on paper.

 

Madam Speaker, the mover of the Motion highlighted a number of policies and these policies have not yielded any results. However, the saviour, the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government headed by His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, has put things on the table that will benefit far flung areas, including Chilubi. Chilubi is going to receive K25.7 million, which it has never received in the history of this country. That clearly shows that this Government cares for the youths and they should have hope in it that they are going to be delivered.

 

Madam Speaker, the previous Government talked about the banks in those policies and if one read through the policies, one would find out that the banks were mentioned. The Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) is also mentioned in those policies. Was that fruitful? There have been no fruits. No matter the blocks the Opposition tries to put in place, we shall overcome that and we are going to serve our people prudently.

 

Madam Speaker, I urge my fellow hon. Members, both on the left and the right, to work with the current Government and to see how the Youth Empowerment Fund enshrined in the CDF is going to benefit our people. Each constituency is going to receive K5 million. So, if we multiply K5 million by 156 constituencies, that is more than what the banks the hon. Member talked about can offer. Clearly, this money will be availed in the constituencies. The youths in the constituencies will not need to go to any bank to apply for any money. All they will need to do is simply form a club and identify what they want to do and, then, they will be funded. They will not incur bank costs and there will not be any interest. So, this money will be given to the youths on a clean silver plate handled by a clean hand with a clean heart.

 

Madam Speaker, the people of Kalabo do not support the Motion, but they support the practices of the New Dawn Government.

 

Madam Speaker, with those few words, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to express the words I have put across.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving me an opportunity to also make a few comments on the Motion.

 

Hon. Government Members: Welcome back.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I also thank the hon. Minister. Yes, I have been off air for a few days, but I am back here on behalf of the people of Shiwang’andu.

 

Madam Speaker, the Motion moved by the hon. Member for Chilubi urging the Government to ensure that it puts in place a regulatory framework to manage youth initiatives is non-controversial in my view and I do not see how it has even stirred some emotions. Yes, it is important to refer to the past and to learn from it. However, it is very critical not to manage national issues in retrospect because the people’s desire to change Governments is to see their affairs managed better than they were in the previous Governments.

 

Madam Speaker, I want my colleagues to understand the importance of this Motion. I will refer to the Budget Speech presented by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning when he was conveying a message from His Excellency the President. In paragraph 173, page 38 of his speech, he said as follows:

 

“Madam Speaker, the most interesting aspect of the enhanced Constituency Development Fund (CDF) as far as job creation is concerned, the Government is bent on seeing to it that the people in the constituencies, especially the youth, should be the main beneficiaries. Not through handouts, but by doing hard and honest work and then getting paid for it.”

 

Madam Speaker, that is a pronouncement but how is it going to be implemented in the absence of a regulatory framework?  I have been a legislature for more than ten years and I have dealt with the CDF which has been guided by a regulatory framework. The projects funded by the CDF are guided by a regulatory framework. One cannot just go and spend money because the Auditor-General will be on one’s neck. So, we are waiting for the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development to come to this august House to make amendments to the regulatory framework of the CDF, so that it caters for the introduction of expenditure. He needs to do that.

 

Madam Speaker, there will be a queue of youths at the constituency office and how are they going to determine the beneficiaries in the absence of a framework? So, all the hon. Member is asking for, is for us to have a framework that will guide us on how we will spend the CDF because these are public resources and they must be accounted for. When we approve the Budget, the Auditor-General will be making a follow up on the expenditure of the money. So, the hon. Member is not asking for something out of nowhere. We have youths who are supposed to go for –

 

Madam Speaker, the issue of the youths is cross cutting and it does not only involve the Minister responsible for the youths. For instance, the hon. Minister of Education said that they will be giving the vulnerable children money to pay for school fees. How will they identify those children or beneficiaries? What regulatory framework are they going to use because in Shiwang’andu, there are seventeen wards? How will they ensure that the beneficiaries are all catered for within the required framework other than just look for relatives?

 

Madam Speaker, this Motion comes at the right time because we have an expanded responsibility as hon. Members of Parliament insofar as the CDF is concerned. We have used these funds before and in the absence of a regulatory framework, we all going to have a big challenge because the expectations of our people are very high. So, it should be holistic. Some policies are there, but there is a need to have a framework that will cater for all the interests of our people. Some vulnerable families cannot even take their children to the hospital. How will they be catered for because they all run to the constituency office?

 

Madam Speaker, yes, we can point at the failures. However, there are youth programmes that succeeded and that did not. The same pressure the previous Ministers responsible for youths had will be the same pressure the current hon. Minister will have. What is key is to have a framework that will guide on who should be the beneficiary and what punitive measures will be taken on those who fail to utilise the funds they requested for. I think this is basically what the hon. Member is asking for and this affects all of us.

 

The Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is being given to all of us in here. There is nothing like this is for the left or that is for the right. It is the same amount that is being given.

 

Hon. UPND Members: It is New Dawn kaili.

 

Mr Kampyongo: However, what is important is that some of us have had no audit queries. The new hon. Members should learn from us. It is very important that they do so.

 

Mr Munsanje: We cannot learn from thieves.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, if there is no the framework, believe you me, it does not matter which side of this august one House is, one will find challenges.

 

So, to my dear colleagues, there is no harm in just saying, “Yes, we understand.” They have no option. The hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development will be coming here to change the regulations of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). There is no option, otherwise, in the absence of those regulations, how is he going to receive the money from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning?

 

So, Madam Speaker, they can refuse today, but they will be coming with amendments to some of the Acts that they have. How do they harmonise the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts and the new Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development without regulations? They can refuse today, but they will come back. They have to harmonise these things. So, let us understand. Let us reflect when we debate some of these issues. What do they mean or what are we talking about? That is key.

 

Madam Speaker, it is easy to shoot down the Motion by saying, “No, you did not do this.” It is very simple. However, we have a responsibility in this august House to provide laws and regulations to manage the affairs of the State.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Madam Speaker: Let us listen to a female Member of Parliament.

 

Hon. UPND Member: Hammer, hammer kezeli!

 

Ms Sefulo (Mwandi): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving an opportunity to the people of Mwandi to contribute to the debate on the Motion on the Floor.

 

Madam Speaker, firstly, let me begin by saying that as we politic, let us take the youth out of it because the youth are the future of tomorrow. Today, we have this Motion that has been brought up which suggests that we should enact legislation which is going to guide youth empowerment. My question then comes: how did we manage youth empowerment funds in the last ten years?

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, the challenge that we have as a country is that we have so many policies written on paper that we fail to follow. If one goes back to issues dealing with the youth, policies that guide them are there. The challenge that we had in implementing these policies was that when implementing them, we did not come with clean hands. Our hands came with a word that I will not use, but starts with the letters ‘c o’. Those are the hands that we came with to allocate these resources. The result was that they failed us.

 

Madam Speaker, what we need to do is clean our hands. For as long as our hands are clean, these resources or the youth funds that we have together with the policies are going to work.

 

Madam Speaker, let me also make mention that when we are talking about youth empowerment funds, we should not put the youth in one corner where we just look at the youth empowerment funds and end there. We want youths in Parliament, in mining and in so many other sectors. We should not just restrict youths in a way to just empower them with funds, no. We want youths in so many sectors. The sectors that we are talking about, the Government has already introduced them.

 

Madam Speaker, I can stand up right here and say that the youth empowerment funds that were there never reached Mwandi, and yet there were policies that were guiding them. So, they were given in a discriminatory way. Therefore, what we are saying right now is that the challenge that we have is not the lack of policies. It is the approach that we had in distributing the funds. The moment we do the clean up to ensure that we look at the youth funds holistically and look at the funds as something every Zambian should benefit from, we will not be coming to this House to seek legislation.

 

Madam Speaker, as Zambians, we are very good on paper, and this can be seen if one goes to any ministry. We write policies that we fail to implement. So, my point is that this legislation that we are trying to introduce, we are not opposing it, but it is a duplicate as it already exists. What we have to do is go back and follow these policies that were already introduced. So, we are not opposing them, what we are saying is that we are not going to sit here and go back to things that are already on paper. What we can do is clean our hands and make sure that we handle those policies with clean hands.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, we are not here to oppose our colleagues. We are here supporting them, but saying it is a duplicate.

 

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, the youth funds that have come, as you can see I am speaking here from Mwandi, my youths in Mwandi never benefited. Today, as I stand here, they are already guaranteed.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Sefulo: Why? It is because there is a K5 million from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). It is already there. The youth in Mwandi are going to benefit. So, the empowerment funds previously only benefitted youths in urban areas and the ones who were politically inclined.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, this is where the challenge came from. Today, I can stand here and say, we are coming and we want legislation. What happened three or four months ago? We were calling the same youth disgruntled yet we are back here. We failed to respect the policies that were in place then and, today, we are back saying we want legislation. What we have to do is let us, first of all, respect the policies that we have found and follow them and we will manage to implement the youth empowerment funds programmes.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, as people of Mwandi, we are saying that we are not opposing the Motion, but that the legislation of policies that governs these youth issues are already there ...

 

UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Sefulo: ... and we will not come and do a duplicate, no. The policies are already there and were crafted by the same previous Government whose members are coming to seek new legislation today.

 

Madam Speaker, with these words said, I also want to advise my hon. colleagues on the left that as we come to debate here, we debate for the whole of Zambia. So, they should not look at us and think that we are here to oppose them. We are not here to oppose them. We are here to support each other. We are together in this, but all we are saying is that this is a duplicate.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Sefulo: As a result, the people of Mwandi cannot come here and support duplicates because there is already that support for the youth. With that said, we do not support this Motion.

 

I submit, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: There are so many people who want to debate, but we do not have time.

 

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, thank you for this opportunity. You know; when elephants fight, it is the grass that suffers. So, usually, some of us are victims of two elephants fighting here. I am a bit worried about how we discuss things which benefit us all, some coming from the Opposition and others coming from the ruling party.

 

Madam Speaker, before I touch on this very important topic, I know that the biggest problem we have is what my sister is just from talking about. Firstly, let me say that in 2015, the Patriotic Front (PF) came up with a very good youth policy signed by then Minister responsible for youth and sport by the name of Hon. Vincent Mwale. That policy is there, but it needs to be polished up in a few places because we were empowering people without training them. That has been the biggest failure with these empowerment funds.

 

Madam Speaker, my simple advice to the UPND hon. Members is that when they look to the left, there is a party which was on the right. When they look at the hon. Members that side, they are not happy that they are seated on the left. They wish they were seated where their hon. Colleagues are.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Menyani Zulu: Now, I will tell the UPND why the PF is seated there.

 

Mr Munsanje: They are failures!

 

Mr Menyani Zulu: They never listened. They were arrogant. Sorry to use that word, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Munsanje: They stole!

 

Mr Menyani Zulu: Madam Speaker, today, when the UPND get any sensible thing coming from the Patriotic Front (PF), it should pick it up. It should not oppose it to the fullest. My sister from Mwandi is very intelligent. She picked out something. She opposed with passion. You know, she is so passionate about the youth. The way she opposed was excellent for me.

 

Madam Speaker, having been a youth chairperson for a long time in one of the political parties before I was kicked out, I understand the challenges that the youth face. I can tell you that what we are opposing now already exists. I wonder why, but maybe we need to do more research on this one. If one went to the PF Youth Policy enacted, I think, in this very Parliament in 2015, one would find that the only thing missing is the way we disburse our money, Government money, to these so called youths.

 

We just give that money to politically inclined youths, but let me tell you something; we need to start educating our people. Let us send them for entrepreneurship training even for just one week’s or month’s orientation or seminar so that we empower our youths with knowledge on how to keep the money. They should know the basic principles of income and expenditure. That will help us.

 

Madam Speaker, in the last five years, hon. Colleagues on the left bought many buses. They gave them to the youth who did not have any simple knowledge of transport logistics. What happened? All the well-intended projects were destroyed.

 

So, my appeal to the United Party for National Development (UPND) today is that it should see to it that the money, policies and ideas that it has to empower the youth are utilised with passion. Failure to do that, it will find itself on the left side. Some of us want to be here for more than ten years. However, if the UPND continues – hon. Colleagues on the left are playing a trick on them which they cannot see.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Menyani Zulu: Madam Speaker, they cannot see it because – I have been hearing this for some time. They bring up a Motion like this one, but hon. Colleagues on the right cannot research for themselves. Instead of telling the House that the policy is there which was enacted in this Parliament by the same party, the Patriotic Front (PF), in 2015, they just go on arguing and attacking. That is not helping us. So, let us come up with plans and ideas. When our hon. Colleagues attack us, let us give them the proper answers. We have the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts who is very youthful. I know him from time immemorial, and he is very enterprising. We can come up with ideas in entrepreneurship to see to it that many youths are empowered collectively.

 

Madam Speaker, look at the money we have been given through the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). How are we going to disburse it? Who are we going to give it to? Who are our target people? The President has promised that he is giving us this money within the first quarter of next year. I am sure the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning knows that for us to appreciate that he is a good hon. Minister, he has to give us the money in the first four months of 2022.

 

Madam Speaker, when that money comes, who are we going to give it to? Am I going to give people who will come to the office and say that they are youths from the Ruling Party? I will give them money for what? What is it that they are going to do? We need to come up with those policies and we just have three months from now. Maybe the hon. Minister will make abracadabra and will have the money by March. So, if we have the money by March, which youths are we going to give it to? Which projects are we going to fund with those monies?

 

Madam Speaker, it is just important that we come up with a legal or written framework so that we can give the money to those of our youths who are productive. This money is not just to be given out to anyone who dreams up that he or she is a youth. Some youths have never graduated from being youths. Some of the youths, you will agree with me, have been youth chairpersons in political parties from the time when they were twenty-six to fifty years. They still maintain to be youth chairpersons.

 

Madam Speaker, what am I talking about? Let us see to it that we give the money to the people we are going to train. The Ministry of Education should come up with an idea of a one week seminar in each and every district. In my constituency, we have come up with an idea. We are organising a youth association where we are going to bring in a lot of youths and those who have done entrepreneurship training. We should educate these people before they access the money. If the UPND just give it out anyhow, at the end of five years, the same youths are going to rise against it. I do not think it needs that. It needs the support of the youth.

 

Madam Speaker, this is my appeal to the UPND over this issue. In simple terms, I wish the UPND could reconsider its position and help out the youth. Let us come up with the legal framework because the policy is already there. There is a policy and I will try to bring it to this House. I will download it and lay it on the Table.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

The Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts (Mr Nkandu): Madam Speaker, I thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to address this august House, and through this House, inform the nation of the Private Member’s Motion to introduce a youth fund to enhance youth participation in the economic affairs of the country.

 

Madam Speaker, before I go any further, I want to appeal to you to censure Hon. Fube, especially on the volume, because some of us do not hear what he says because of too much noise. He is so loud that some of the things that he talks about we do not understand. That is my appeal.

 

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Let me just give guidance.

 

Mr Kampyongo: It is procedural, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Let me just give guidance. Hon. Minister, as you debate, do not debate the hon. Member in the personality of what he has said. Stick to the script and give a policy statement on the matter so that the mover of the Motion can wind up debate.

 

The hon. Minister may proceed, and I hope I have covered the concerns of hon. Members.

 

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, as the New Dawn Government, we are alive to the fact that the youth, aged between fifteen and thirty-five years, account for 36.7 per cent of Zambia’s total population, which is estimated at 17.6 million people. This large population of young people presents an enormous opportunity to transform our future. With the right skills, right mindset and targeted investments, Zambia’s youths have the potential to be innovators, creators, builders and leaders of sustainable development.

 

Madam Speaker, I wish to disagree with the Private Members Motion to introduce a youth development fund as the Government, through the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts, is already implementing youth empowerment programmes that enhance youth participation in the economic affairs of the country.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government of the Republic of Zambia (GRZ), therefore, remains committed to ensuring that the youth are provided with opportunities to enable them contribute to the development of our great nation through various empowerment programmes. The empowerment programmes that have been implemented under the ministry are as follows:

 

1. Youth Development Fund;
2. Youth Street Vendors Empowerment Scheme;
3. Youth Bus Drivers Empowerment Scheme;
4. Motorised Cargo Youth Empowerment Scheme;
5. Youth in ICT Empowerment Scheme;
6. Youth Resettlement Scheme; and
7. skills training.

 

Mr Mwene: All those?

 

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, through these programmes, the Government spent a total of K120 million between 2012 and 2018. Of this amount, K92.3 million has been disbursed to youths in form of start-up capital, transportation equipment, skills training programmes and land for resettlement. Between 2012 and 2018, 49,717 youths benefitted from various empowerment programmes implemented by the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts.

 

Madam Speaker, allow me to give a brief account and make mention that the Youth Development Fund was one of the initiatives that the Government embarked on to empower youths between 2012 and 2015. The fund was aimed at providing capital to youth-led micro, small and medium enterprises (MSMEs) for wealth and employment creation. The overall objective of the Youth Development Fund was to lend finance to viable projects managed by young entrepreneurs as well as to enable the youth benefit from associated training and mentorship services. The Youth Development Fund was, therefore, aimed at supporting the growth of youth-led SMEs for wealth and employment creation.

 

Madam Speaker, between 2012 and 2014, the Government disbursed a total of K52 million to 2,750 youth groups throughout the country in form of loans. As stated earlier, the main aim of the programme was to stimulate entrepreneurship among the youth. While the objective of the programme was to provide support to the youth, the performance of the programme was poor, that I should mention. This is evidenced by the limited number of youths who established sustainable enterprises coupled with low loan repayments. As at 31^st December, 2018, only K2.8 million had been paid back by the beneficiaries. This represents a default rate of 95 per cent.

 

Madam Speaker, the poor performance of the Youth Development Fund led to the Government suspending the programme in 2017. Prior to the suspension of he programme, my ministry commissioned a study to evaluate the performance of the fund in achieving its objectives of providing empowerment and employment opportunities to the youth in 2015. The evaluation revealed that the Youth Development Fund created a total of 742 paid hobs between 2011 and 2015. It also revealed that the fund gave an opportunity to the youth to participate in the economy and gain rare entrepreneurship experience during the process.

 

Further, the findings from the report also indicated that compared to the amount of resources invested in the Youth Development Fund, the number of jobs that were created did not sufficiently contribute to the reduction in unemployment among the youth. The study has made recommendations on how to manage the fund sustainably. Currently, the Government is consulting stakeholders on a new model for the management of various employment funds.

 

Madam Speaker, as I conclude my statement, let me state that the Government remains committed to ensuring that the youth population in the country is harnessed through the provision of an enabling policy environment as well as exploring other empowerment programmes such as multi-sectoral youth empowerment which has been decentralised to constituency level.

 

Madam Speaker, let me also agree with some of the sentiments by my hon. Colleagues. I agree that it is incumbent upon the Government to expedite and efficiently make intervention to enhance youth participation in economic development. I want to emphasise the point that the President His Excellency, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, when he came to officially open the Fifth Session of the Thirteen National Assembly, he emphasised two clear points for the youth. The first one was creating specific preferential public procurement process targeting the purchase of goods and services from youth owned enterprises. The second one was to upscale resource mobilisation to sustain youth empowerment programmes. All these are leading to how best this Government can assist the youths in terms of getting them the empowerment that they are in dire need of.

 

With these few words, this Motion should not be supported.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, I would like to start by acknowledging that the Motion brought to this House has been widely misunderstood by the hon. Members including the hon. Minister. I do not know which Motion the hon. Minister was responding to because my Motion is very clear. It is talking about creating a legal framework under which all these activities and initiatives that he has mentioned should be anchored.

 

However, if we followed the hon. Minister very well, we would know that he was responding to a Motion that does not exist on this Floor. As a result, I find that to be a problem because when I go to my hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts with something that is supposed to be helpful to him, then he responds to the Motion that is in the utopia world. Having said that, I am sure that as the hon. Minister took over, he would have these documents and read them properly.

 

Madam Speaker, I know that the hon. Minister, in wanting to be partisan about this very important Motion went to town to demonstrate that the Government is doing something. Actually, the Patriotic Front (PF) is the one that laid the foundation and that cannot be taken away from it. I can lay the document on the Table later. On page 16, on the legal framework, on 14.2 states that the provision of Gazette Notice No. 183 of March, 2012 will also guide the review of various pieces of legislation relating to youth development including the Youth Development Council Act. Furthermore, the ministry may consider enacting the relevant legislation in support of youth development, meaning that there is no existence of any legislation that supports youth initiatives apart from the National Youth Development Act.

 

Madam Speaker, I want it put on record that I am a very experienced youth worker although I am no longer a youth. I have interacted with the Government ministries heavily. I can cite most of these laws and policies being referred to without even reading a book. When I brought this Motion to this House, I did not do that for the people of Chilubi or Shangombo, but I brought it for the Zambian youths. With the experience, I thought that this time around, people may reason and may take note.

 

Madam Speaker, I think let me also create one notion which came through where people said that the PF was implementing things and it left things in a mess. When the PF came into power, it released K4 billion before the currency was rebased, which is K4 million now. Out of that money, only 0.16 per cent was recovered. That was the rationale for suspending the programme. Let us not make it look like the PF was very harsh on the young people of Zambia. Further, even the current unemployment rates we are talking about, both the United Party for National Development (UPND) and the PF will be victims of circumstances because the unemployment was created because 225 plus companies were sold through privatisation, which I would like to believe some of the players participated in. Looking at that, I would like to state that it is not Fube or the PF on trial, but the UPND. This is not a Motion that it should have looked on partisan lines.

 

Madam Speaker, those who feel we are bringing these Motions here to make the Government processes very difficult or make it ungovernable, – I see some of the people I was with in the youth movement escaping one by one because possibly, their consciences cannot allow them to stick around. However, I would like to say that this day will be remembered at one point, when the time dawns and you will remember that I stood to facilitate the leverage under which we should create the youth initiatives. I rest my case and may God bless this day.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Question that this House urges the Government to introduce legislation to regulate youth empowerment initiatives put and negatived.

 

_______

 

 

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

 

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

 

(Consideration resumed)

 

VOTE 09 – (Teaching Service Commission – K9,963,207)

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for according me the opportunity to present the 2022 Budget Estimates of Expenditure for the Teaching Service Commission. The commission is established under Article 223 of the Constitution and draws its mandate from the Service Commission’s Act No. 10 of 2016. Among other functions, the commission is mandated to recruit, appoint, confirm, hear and determine appeal cases and provide an oversight role on the management of human resource cases in the teaching service.

 

Strategic Focus

 

Mr Chairperson, in line with the strategic focus of the New Dawn Government and the Vision 2030, the Teaching Service Commission will implement its mandate in accordance with its strategic plan whose vision is a credible teaching service for quality education.

 

Mr Chairperson, the commission will endeavour to effectively contribute to the attainment of the human and social development strategic focus whose main development outcomes are:

 

1. reduced poverty and inequalities; and
2. improved human capital.

 

Review of the Past Performance

 

Mr Chairperson, during the year under review, the Teaching Service Commission was allocated K7,704,814 only. The following were some of the activities undertaken by the commission:

 

1. operationalisation of the Decentralisation Police

 

1. reviewed the Teaching Service Regulations which culminated into the issuance of the Teaching Service Regulations No. 104 of 2020;

 

1. formulated and approved the human resource management guidelines and procedures for recruitment and placement in the teaching service;

 

1. delegated some functions to Human Resource Management Committees (HRMCs) and responsible officers; and

 

b. processed a total of 6,618 outstanding human resource cases as at third quarter 2021.

Challenges

 

Mr Chairperson, the following were some of the challenges faced during the year under review:

 

1. inadequate funding;
2. partial operationalisation of the commission’s structure;
3. inadequate transport; and
4. effects of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) mainly through loss of human capital.

 

2022 Output Based Budget

 

Mr Chairperson, the annual provision for the Teaching Service Commission is K9,963,207 only, which will be utilised to address two main programmes as follows:

 

1. the Teaching Service Human Resource Management; and
2. Management Support Services.

 

Mr Chairperson, the funds will support the portfolio functions of the commission in its continued effort to provide efficient and effective service delivery to the teaching fraternity pursuant to Section 10, (1) (h) of the Service Commissions Act No. 10 of 2016.

 

Mr Chairperson, further, in line with the National Monitoring and Evaluation Policy, the commission will enhance its oversight role of monitoring and evaluation and capacity building of the HRMCs to ensure compliance to set standards and guidelines. The commission wishes to appreciate the allocation of funds centrally to facilitate the recruitment of 30,000 teachers in the year 2020. You may wish to note that in the year 2021, the commission was only able to recruit 1,432 teachers against the teacher deficit in the Ministry of Education of approximately 47,000.

 

Mr Chairperson, I now seek the support of this House for the 2022 Budget Estimates for the Teaching Service Commission.

 

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

 

Mr Mabumba (Mwense): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the Teaching Service Commission Vote. Am I audible?

 

The Deputy Chairperson: You can go ahead.

 

Mr Mabumba: Mr Chairperson, I was saying that I am very grateful for the opportunity to contribute to debate on this particular Vote. As you are aware, the Teaching Service Commission, just like other service commissions, plays an important role because it provides an oversight over the Ministry of Education. If education remains to be regarded as an equaliser and an investment, it is important that the Teaching Service Commission is provided with the necessary resources that will allow it to undertake its mandate.

 

Mr Chairperson, the Teaching Service Commission has existed over the years. I am sure and it is my considered view that the New Dawn Government should be able to look at the architectural institutional framework of the Teaching Service Commission so that it remains relevant.

 

Mr Chairperson, in our quest as a country, change comes but continuity is important. In our continued effort as a country, it is important that the Teaching Service Commission gets aligned. The United Party for National Development (UPND) Government is promoting decentralisation, which has been our aspiration as a country for many years. The question remains, “What would be the role of the Teaching Service Commission in the quest of our country decentralising?”

 

Mr Chairperson, if you look at the current state, the Teaching Service Commission has to undertake provincial visits to process promotions, transfers, name it. The question is, “As a country, do we want to continue allowing the Teaching Service Commission to be travelling all over the provinces just to promote, transfer or confirm a teacher?” It is my considered view that we really need to look at its structure and begin to align it so that it becomes strategic. If you look at the Ministry of Education, in as far as the Budget allocation is concerned, you will see that it is the only ministry that receives the highest Budget. For example, statistically for 2022, we are talking of K18 billion. Therefore, the Teaching Service Commission has to play its relevant role in ensuring that the K18 billion investment the Government is putting in the education sector becomes –

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.

 

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

 

Mr Mabumba: Mr Chairperson, before the business was suspended, what I was trying to say is that for example, the Government allocates K18 billion to the education sector. However, when you look at the education sector, the idea is that it requires promoting social justice to our children because it is an equaliser and of course our education should be anchored on quality education and support to the social and economic development of our country. Therefore, the Teaching Service Commission (TSC) plays an important role because it is the one which is responsible as provided in the Constitution and the Service Commissions Act to promote, transfer, regrade and do all sorts of things around the human resource capital found in our schools.

 

Mr Chairperson, it is therefore, important that going forward, the new Dawn Government should be able to relook at this institution so that there are no overlaps between the TSC in terms of its mandate and that of the Ministry of Education. I am sure even as the hon. Minister of Education settles down, he will find that sometimes there are operational overlaps between the two institutions, so that needs to be clarified.

 

Mr Chairperson, secondly, in our quest for decentralisation, I do not expect the TSC to travel al to all the provinces just to transfer, promote or re-grade a teacher because that promotes inefficiency and  infectiveness. It is important that the New Dawn Government be able to look at the TSC with the context of decentralisation. What would be the role of the TSC? Again, in my humble view, it is important that many of the functions of the TSC should be decentralised to district level so that the leadership at distracts level is able to make fundamental decisions on behalf of our teachers.

 

Mr Chairperson, as my hon. Colleagues may be aware, sometimes decisions to transfer, promote or confirm a teacher, take so long and in the end our teachers become demotivated. It is in that regard that going forward, the Government should look at what sort of function the TSC is undertaking that can be devolved to the district level because, at the end of it all, we are all aware that a teacher plays an important change agent at classroom level. If their human resource cases remain unattended to for so many years, they remain demotivated, as I have already said. So, it is my considered view that the New Dawn Government should relook at the TCS structure and align it in the quest of our decentralisation and provide enough resources so that it is not travelling across the country.

 

Mr Chairperson, going forward, with the new Ministry of Technology and Science, it is my considered view that the Ministry of General Education and the Ministry of Technology and Science work together so that many of the processes and activities that are currently done manually by the TSC should be digitalised. That way, it is going to become easier for them to make decisions than allowing themselves to be travelling to provinces just to go and confirm a teacher when these things can be done digitally.

 

Mr Chairperson, so, these are my submissions. We need to support the TSC in terms of resource allocation so that it can undertake its fundamental strategic role in terms of providing oversight on the Ministry of Education.

 

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Mr Chairperson, thank you for allowing the people of Mbabala to offer their views on Head 09 – Teaching Service Commission (TSC).

 

Mr Chairperson, the TSC plays a critical role in the nation, in that the Ministry of Education is a largest ministry in the country and it therefore, takes many resources. Education is the key and an equaliser to all of us in life. We would not be here had it not been for the good work of the teachers who helped, moulded, taught us and brought us to where we are.

 

Mr Chairperson, however, in the last ten years, we have seen how this institution became caderised. The TSC lost its strategic role. Instead, political cadres went in and as such, we really need not only make it strategic, but also to remove the political cadres and make it professional.

 

Mr Chairperson, the TSC needs to demonstrate professionalism in its job of managing teaches, making promotions, making appointments and demotions, including disciplinary actions that have been abused in the last ten years. It is common practice to see teachers who do not perform being allowed staying in the service. For us from rural communities, people would complain that their teacher is just drinking and farming, but there will be no action. It is in that course that I also concur with Hon. Mabumba. I call for the decentralisation of these functions so that we can see quick and efficient action when we have such kind of developments such as having teachers who are not dedicated to their work, but the people seated in Lusaka at the TSC will take one or two years or more to go and deal with such a matter. That is a disservice to the people of Zambia, who need the service. It is a disservice to our children, whom will have an obligation to educate.

 

Mr Chairperson, the issue of monitoring and evaluation is the key, the TSC goes on these monitoring trips, but you cannot see them using the monitoring reports. The whole essence of monitoring and evaluation is to ensure that when you comeback, you use those monitoring reports to make corrective action, but we have not been seeing this. We hope, in our call for professionalisation of that institution with the removal of political cadres, we will see the commission now use the monitoring and evaluation reports.

 

Mr Chairperson, we now live in the digital era where we expect the TSC to electronise itself. Money has been provided from K7.7 million to K9.9 million which is a lot of money for the commission to now do things properly. The commission needs to computerise itself so that decisions can be made more efficiently. We expect decisions to be taken within three months of an action of misconduct or the need for a teacher appointment and redeployment being reported at the district education office. 

 

Mr Chairperson, for the first time in the history of Zambia, we are going to recruit 30,000 plus teachers and we expect credibility of the highest order and professionalism of the highest order from the TSC to allow our children in the wards and in the constituencies who have been waiting for these jobs to be recruited. We therefore call for a system of recruitment that will ensure that even at constituency level, we can compile a list of our children with teaching qualifications who are waiting to be recruited so that we can also monitor that our children have been recruited and they have not been left out. This will be crucial if we are going to bring about credibility to the TSC and to the ways of recruitment, appointments, transfers and the like.

 

We want to see a system that will allow us at ward level to identify the trained teachers we have who need to be appointed. Once we submit our list, we want to see that our children are recruited and deployed in our areas. 

 

Mr Chairperson, we lack teachers in our areas. On average, every school in my constituency in Mbabala has a shortage of teachers. Where you need twelve teachers you have seven, however, we have  children who are roaming the villages who can be recruited and who will stay there.

 

Sir, one of the issues we have is that some teachers are appointed and they do not stay there simply because they regard these areas as rural areas. As such, we are calling for the Teaching Service Commission (TSC) to ensure that teachers from rural areas like Mbabala are recruited and stay in Mbabala. That is their home environment and they will stay. It is when you take them elsewhere that many do not report and end up going to other areas. We do not want a recurrence of that. I emphasise the issue that we recruit from the wards and constituencies and let those teachers stay in those areas so that we do not experience attrition and them moving to other areas to join husbands or something like that.

 

Mr Chairperson, with these remarks I support the Head and the budget increase as presented by Her Honour the Vice-President.

 

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

 

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Mr Chairperson, I thank Her Honour the Vice-President for this policy statement on the Teaching Service Commission (TSC).

 

Sir, the Teaching Service Commission draws its mandate from Article 224 of the Constitution of Zambia. Its mandate, as referred to by Her Honour the Vice-President, entails appointing, confirming, promoting and hearing appeals from officers in the teaching service. In other jurisdictions, the mandate of the Teaching Service Commission includes exercising disciplinary control over officers to develop, maintain and improve appropriate standards of qualification in the teaching profession.

 

Mr Chairperson, allow me to address myself to some of the challenges within the teaching service profession. Firstly, we have seen a rampant increase in unprofessional conduct both at the commission itself, but it also filters through to the teachers in general. We have also seen an increase in examination malpractices and, of course, this is not just a case for the Examination Council of Zambia (ECZ) but it also speaks volumes about the levels of professionalism or unprofessionalism in the teaching service.

 

Sir, teacher misconduct generally includes alcohol abuse and sexual abuse of pupils.  For some of the cases that we have had of teenage pregnancies in some of these schools, you will find that it is teachers who are responsible and are kicking our girl child out of school.

 

Mr Chairperson, allow me to further refer to some of the challenges that the profession has been faced with such as progression rigidities. Thousands of our teachers who have upgraded their qualifications from certificates to diplomas and degrees have not been upgraded and are still getting very low salaries even when vacancies are readily available. This has demotivated many of our teachers and also goes to compromise the equality of education in our country. Some of these teachers obtained loans to upgrade themselves with the hope of better pay after the completion of studies, but, alas, they have ended up defaulting because they cannot be upgraded even when vacancies are readily available.

 

Sir, there are delays in confirmations and substantive promotions. Sometimes it takes five years for a teacher to be confirmed and promoted. This is against the Employment Code of 2019 which talks about three months prior to confirmation. It is my hope that with the announced recruitment of 30,000 new teachers, the TSC will use the available fiscal space for upgrades and leave more spaces for new entrants.

 

Mr Chairperson, curriculum implementation, supervision, quality assurance and standards and assessment are all very critical in ensuring that our educational system goes up. I support the idea of the formation of human resource committees (HRCs) in districts, however, there is need to clearly define the role of provincial education officers so that their oversight role is not dislocated.

 

Sir, the alleged 1,500 forged letters of employment or appointment ought to be thoroughly investigated. I pray that at one point Her Honour the Vice-President will come to this House with an update on this very important matter.

 

Mr Chairperson, allow me to make a few proposals even as we debate the allocation to the TSC. I propose that it be domiciled under the Ministry of Education. The independence of the TSC has locked out the Ministry of Education from the teachers’ welfare and it leaves room for duplication of duties and personnel.

 

Sir, secondly, the duplication of duties and personnel between the Ministry of Education and the TSC is costing the taxpayer a lot of money. The independence of the TSC while teachers’ day to day activities remain under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Education does not make sense to me. It is only in Zambia where the hon. Minister of Education has no control over teachers but only pupils and students.

 

Mr Chairperson the independence of the TSC has caused conflict with the Ministry of Education which is affecting service delivery. Hon. Mabumba referred to this as overlaps. This can only be cured once we get the commission domiciled under the Ministry of Education. Going forward, there is a need to create a national institute of education to help raise well and holistically trained teachers at all levels of education.

 

Mr Chairperson, with those few remarks, I beg to move and I support this allocation with those proposals.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Chairperson, I am in support of the Vote being moved by Her Honour the Vice-President.

 

Sir, in supporting the Vote, we look at the mandate of the Teaching Service Commission (TSC), which I would term as the belt of the Ministry of Education. The commission has a mandate with number of tasks and responsibilities, amongst which are appointments, confirmations, promotions, attending to appeal cases and transfers. It also has the mandate to attain improved service delivery to the people of Zambia. Questions arise which seek answers. Is the delivery of education improving? Depending on where one comes from, the answer might be yes or no. Why no?

 

Mr Chairperson, there are a number of challenges in the teaching fraternity, which cause impediments in the delivery of education. The teachers’ morale is low and they are not well catered for. Further, there are a number of pending challenges in schools. A teacher is recruited and deployed to a school as a class teacher, but is in that same capacity for fifteen to twenty years, with no promotion whatsoever. One wonders whether he is a wrong teacher. What is wrong? Will this teacher manage to appraise himself? So, these are issues which the Teaching Service Commission must seriously look at. Some teachers are crying because they are not being promoted. In some cases, a teacher is promoted but is not confirmed, and is in that position for many years. Yes, they might say that the resources are not enough but there must be the will because where there is a will, there is a way.

 

Mr Chairperson, I will liken the Teaching Service Commission to a belt because for the Ministry of Education to attain its mandate, there must be staff and it is important that they are cared for. I have had discussions with teachers and District Education Board Secretaries (DEBS) and monitoring is a problem. Standard officers hardly visit schools. So, how does the Ministry of Education attain a high level of education service delivery? Not every teacher or human being can supervise himself/herself. Some human beings can supervise themselves while others need strict supervision to ensure that they adhere to the ethics. If they do not adhere to the ethics, a high level of education service delivery will not be attained. So, I urge the Teaching Service Commission to put in all that it can, and looking at the Budget, at least there is an improvement compared to the 2021 Budget. So, that improvement should be utilised prudently and effectively in order to enhance education service delivery.

 

Mr Chairperson, disciplinary cases must be disposed of quickly because this also affects the teacher involved. If a case lasts for many years, that teacher will not serve with one heart. So, I appeal to the Teaching Service Commission to ensure that disciplinary cases are disposed of quickly.

 

Mr Chairperson, some hon. Members talked about the decentralisation of the Teaching Service Commission and I agree with them. This commission should be decentralised not at the district level but at the provincial level. It will not be very effective for the officers to move from one province to the other, and there are currently ten provinces, and a number of districts and schools. So, we will not promote education service delivery if the officers move from one province to the other, regardless of the number of vehicles they have because of the areas they have to cover. However, if the Teaching Service Commission is decentralised at the provincial level, attention will be rendered to disciplinary cases and transfers and everything would be done quickly. Our teachers will be happy and quality education will really be attained.

 

Mr Chairperson, with those few words, the people of Kalabo support the Vote and we hope that the Teaching Service Commission will come in with a new spirit in 2022, to make sure that it executes its mandate.

 

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

 

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima): Mr Chairperson, I just have a few things to put across and I thank Her Honour the Vice-President for ably presenting the policy statement for the Vote of the Teaching Service Commission.

 

Mr Chairperson, many hon. Members alluded to the issue of promotion, progression and recruiting teachers in areas where they stay. Indeed, this has been a thorny issue and I have actually gone to many schools and districts. Hon. Chanda will bear me witness. I was in Kanchibiya, where we found so many problems in terms of staffing and the girl child getting pregnant. I was supposed to first go to the Copperbelt Province but I had to go to Muchinga Province because of the glaring problems that I found there. There is a high number of girls who are pregnant. I also went to Shiwang’andu, my hon. Colleague’s constituency, where the number of girls who are pregnant is more than in Kanchibiya. Twenty-one girls were married and pregnant but eight of them were retrieved from those marriages.

 

Mr Chairperson, this is a serious concern and it was sad to see a child’s future destroyed at that level. When I saw a few pregnant children, I felt we had lost future doctors. I could see that we had lost engineers. So, it was quite painful to see a girl child pregnant and this is sometimes perpetuated by some teachers. What Hon. Chanda said is true because I went to Kanchibiya.

 

Mr Chairperson, in terms of promotion, it is true that some teachers are in the same position for a long time. Sometimes, they are promoted to become head teachers or headmasters, but they act in those positions for almost six to ten years and only to retire as class teachers. However, I have actually discovered that there were politics in our education system. I have argued time and again that even the cruellest dictators in the world never disturbed the education system. Even in Africa, the school systems in the countries whose leaders were dictators are very intact. Where were we that in the last six or ten years that people just got stagnate? This is why even those people who wanted to get certificates or diplomas in early childhood education opted to get a secondary school diploma so that they could teach at secondary schools.

 

However, in our budget, we have emphasised on early childhood education because that is the seed. We would like to start balancing so that people are proud to teach at early childhood level, because that is where you plant a seed. I am glad that this is reflective of what is being done.

 

Mr Chairperson, our education system, for argument’s sake, could be the biggest ministry ever, and the problems are so mountainous. It will take quite some time to break this vicious cycle, but I assure Her Honour the Vice-President that we will be up to the task. We want to do certain things so that our education system reflects what the 21^st century entails us to do. It is a mammoth task but I feel that it is achievable. If we do that, we will do a good job for our economy because it starts from there. If you cannot, for example, invest in the people who you see, you cannot invest in agriculture, mining, and any other thing.

 

Mr Chairperson, we want to pay meticulous attention when we recruit the 30,000 teachers. I know my hon. Colleague said that there is a misnomer between the Ministry of Education and the Teaching Service Commission. I think they are complementary. Many departments fall under my ministry – For me, it is a policy issue. Everybody falls under the Ministry of Education despite being in statutory bodies. We all agree with what the Government wants to achieve at the end of the day and I think that it is achievable. All we need is support from everybody.

 

Mr Chairperson, I want to say something about the 30,000 teachers, and I have been saying this in all districts. Wherever the teachers are posted, they will stay there. They are Zambians and they will stay there. They will have to teach every Zambian no matter how remote the place is. I want to change the paradigm. We are not employing teachers; we are getting teachers for a service. Employment entails people looking for a job in order to get a salary. I want to change the mindset. Teachers are professionals and they have a noble job to do. They should go and offer a service and then the salary will follow behind. The excitement of the 30,000 teachers to be recruited is because they will now be on the payroll. That is not the idea. The idea is offering quality education, and quality education demands that we put teachers where they are supposed to be. This is how I want our teachers to start thinking: This is not employment; they are going to offer a service. Thereafter, because of their service, they will be appreciated and a salary will follow.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

The Vice-President: Thank you very much, Mr Chairperson.

 

Mr Chairperson, I want to start by appreciating everybody who has debated on the Budget Estimate for the Teaching Service Commission and their concerns are the same. Hon. Mabumba, who was once Minister responsible for education, sees overlaps in the functions of the commission and the Ministry of Education, and posed this as a challenge. Hon. Chanda confirmed that, yet the current hon. Minister feels these two institutions are complementary. However, these are administrative issues that will be worked on and identified. Then people will see where they can draw the line and who does what.

 

Mr Chairperson, there was a concern on disciplinary actions, promotions, progressions and that they take too long and, therefore, this is a de-motivating factor, and I think every hon. Member who debated said that. The commission is aware that Statutory Instrument (SI) No. 104 of 2020 provides for decentralisation. Hon. Chanda talked about that, and I appreciate that he took note of that. That SI provides for decentralisation and, right now, the commission is decentralised. The commission is also at the district level. It is our hope that the commission will have strong mechanisms of ensuring that promotions and disciplinary cases at that level are done professionally. I am concerned about that and that is everybody’s concern. However, since the commission is decentralised, those issues will be dealt with at the district level, of course with the supervision from the higher level. In fact, I am informed that from salary scale k, the commission at the national level will deal with that. However, all lower levels will go to Human Resource Management Committees at the district level. We pray that the issues that have brought on the Floor of the House, which every Zambian must be concerned about, will be dealt with better.

 

Mr Chairperson, the commission is also working on digitalising processes because that will bring effectiveness and efficiency in the manner that these things are handled. Of course, there will be appeals and that is very important. Education is an equaliser. All of us agree that education is the equaliser. Like somebody said, we would not be here at all without education.

 

Mr Chairperson, as the commission recruits the 30,000 teachers the Government promised, hon. Members have urged it to be professional in the way that these people will be recruited. In fact, I think one hon. Member even said that there is a need to investigate how the 1,500 teachers were recruited. However, they were recruited under the same human resource management committees. They are the ones who recommended the teachers. We must also continue sensitising people that those committees do not recruit teachers based on politics because there are fewer numbers. This is a profession and not a political issue. So, we cannot debate the issue of cadres here. It is an issue of a qualified teacher at any district level, and we should really know who we are looking for.

 

Mr Chairperson, I am so impressed and happy with the debate and the unity of what Zambians want to see through the hon. Members. I am grateful.

 

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

 

Vote 09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: On prior arrangement and special request, we move to Vote 34 – Human Rights Commission.

 

VOTE 34 – (Human Rights Commission – K21,199,507).

 

The Vice-President: Mr Chairperson, I rise to present the policy statement of the 2022 Estimates of Expenditure for the Human Rights Commission.

 

Mr Chairperson, the Human Rights Commission’s establishment and mandate is espoused in the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016 and the Human Rights Commission Act of 1996.

 

The constitutional legislative mandate of the Commission includes;

 

1. ensuring that the Bill of Rights is protected and upheld;
2. investigate and report on the observance of rights and freedoms;
3. take necessary steps to secure appropriate redress where rights and freedoms are violated;
4. endeavour to resolve a dispute through negotiation, mediation or conciliation;
5. carry out research on rights and freedoms and related matters;
6. conduct civic education on rights and freedoms and related matters; and
7. visit prisons and places of detention or related facilities with a view of accessing and inspecting conditions.

 

The Commission currently has presence in all the ten provinces of Zambia.

 

Performance in 2021

 

Mr Chairperson, allow me now to speak to the performance of the Commission in 2021. In 2021, the Commission was allocated a total K17,181,044.

 

Mr Chairperson, the Commission implemented various activities under its three programme mandate, specifically:

 

1. protection;
2. promotion; and
3. monitoring compliance by the state of human rights standards .

 

Mr Chairperson, under its protection mandate, the Commission continued to carry out investigations and provided legal services to its clients. In this regard, a total of 1,179 complaints were processed. The typical complaints included:

 

1. secure protection before the law (delayed trials, judgements, committals and appeals);
2. labour and employment rights;
3. freedom from inhuman treatment;
4. freedom of assembly and association and expression;
5. right to life;
6. freedom of the media; and
7. right to health and highest attainable standard of leaving.

 

Mr Chairperson, in addition to this, the Commission implemented an early warning and early response platform in all its ten provinces to specifically monitor and respond to the electoral violence complaints and allegations. A total of 215 in addition to the 1,179 complaints were received and dealt with. The complaints received included:

 

1. physical assault and harassment;
2. destruction and defacing of billboards and posters;
3. electoral malpractices;
4. destruction of property; and
5. closure of social media on election day.

 

Mr Chairperson, it is important to note that most of the reported cases were perpetrated by persons affiliated to the main contenders of the 2021 elections, namely the then ruling party, the Patriotic Front (PF), and the now ruling party, the United Party for National Development (UPND). The majority of the cases perpetrated by persons affiliated to the then ruling party were not dealt with by the Zambia Police Service (ZP) while cases associated with persons not affiliated with the ruling party were usually dealt with by the Zambia Police Service with suspects arrested.

 

Mr Chairperson, other incidences included violence related to mob justice on people suspected of trying to manipulate the voting process; extreme violence on suspicion of carrying pre-marked ballot papers in two instances leading to death; physical and verbal abuse of several people including employees of the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) due to suspicion that they were attempting to manipulate election results. The reported complaints post elections included physical violence, damage to property and vandalism.

 

Mr Chairperson, under the promotion mandate, activities undertaken concentrated on the monitoring of the application of the Public Order Act. Generally speaking, there was biased application of the said Act with Opposition political parties being denied the right to associate and assemble. This, invariably, impacted on voters’ ability to equally exercise their right to assemble, associate and access information to help them make an informed decision.

 

There were various stakeholders’ meetings and general sensitisation on human rights and fundamental freedoms with a focus on the right to vote and its attending rights.

 

 

Taking into consideration the need to protect people from contracting the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19), the Commission embarked on public sensitisation on the public health guidelines and the need for the State to respect the rights of the public in the implementation of the said guidelines. Other activities included the campaign against the death penalty and torture.

 

Mr Chairperson, finally, under 2021 performance, the Commission continued to monitor the State’s compliance with human rights standards at the national, regional and international levels. In particular, the Commission launched its Supplementary to the National Assessment on Business and Human Rights, stressing business need to respect human rights. In addition, it submitted an advisory to the State on the need to protect workers’ rights in the context of COVID-19.

 

2022 Estimates of Expenditure.

 

Mr Chairperson, let me now move to the planned activities by the Commission in 2022. A total of K21,199,507 has been allocated to the Commission, translating into an increase of 23.4 per cent from the 2021 budget allocation.

 

Mr Chairperson, under the protection mandate, the following will be implemented:

 

1. carrying out investigations and providing legal advice to its client State and non-State actors;
2. conducting inspection of places of detention; and
3. holding one public hearing on systematic human rights violations.

 

 

Mr Chairperson, moving on to the second mandate, which is the Promotional mandate; activities will include:

 

1. empowering rights holders to claim their rights through sensitisation and awareness programs on human rights and fundamental freedoms with a focus on:

 

1. rights of marginalised groups, that is, women, children, the agedand persons with disability;
2. freedom of assembly and association;
3. rights of suspects;
4. labour rights; and
5. COVID-19 regulations and protection of human rights.

 

Mr Chairperson, secondly, the Commission will hold stakeholder engagement at different levels in holding duty bearers accountable.

 

Mr Chairperson, under the third mandate of monitoring Government’s compliance with human rights standards, the Commission will undertake:

 

1. production of annual state of human rights report;
2. submission of independent reports to various regional and international human rights forums to which Zambia is a State party; and
3. facilitate the development of the Zambia National Action Plan on Business and Human Rights.

 

Mr Chairperson, in strengthening its institutional capacity to deliver on the above mentioned activities, the Commission will continue to provide corporate support services. Special attention will be directed to:

 

1. lobbying for the repeal and replacement of the Human Rights Commission Act No. 39 of 1996;
2. modernisation of its information and communication technology (ICT) system; and
3. dedicating support to the newly established offices in Luapula, the North-Western Province, Muchinga Province and the Central Province.

 

Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, one year and eleven months down the line, the Coronavirus (Covid-19) has had a devastating impact on the lives and livelihood of our people. Therefore, the Commission, in 2022 and beyond, will continue, in the execution of its mandate, to take into consideration the potential adverse impact of COVID-19 in the protection and promotion of human rights and fundamental freedoms.

 

Mr Speaker, with the forgoing, I urge this august House to support the 2022 budget for the Human Rights Commission.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Andeleki (Katombola): Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank you for allowing me, on behalf of the people of Katombola, to add up their voice on the debate on this very important Motion on the Floor of the House. Allow me to begin by thanking Her Honour the Vice-President for the elaborate policy statement that she has given this morning. As the people of Katombola, we concerned about this important agency of the Government called the Human Rights Commission.

 

Mr Chairperson, as the House may be aware, the policy statement issued by His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Zambia, when he was in this House, indicated that his Government was going to promote the rule of law, good governance and respect for human rights.

 

Mr Chairperson, we are concerned about abuse and violation of human rights. There can be no good governance without respect for human rights as civilisation is determined by how people are treated.

 

Sir, I want to address my mind to matters of over detention by police. This has been a very serious source of concern and violation of human rights and has been costing the Government colossal sums of money.

 

Mr Chairperson, as I address the Human Rights Commission, I would want to state that it needs to up its game this time around. We do not want to see over detention of suspects. Remember, we are all potential prisoners. That is what the law says. Every human being is a potential prisoner. Therefore, it is very important that the Human Rights Commission ups its game and makes sure that it provides oversight mechanisms to ensure that suspects who are taken in custody are treated within the confines of the law.

 

Mr Chairperson, the provisions of the Criminal Procedure Code are well elaborate. Particularly, Section 33 provides for the disposal or treatment of suspects; they must appear before a court of law within forty-eight hours. This has not been happening.

 

Mr Chairperson, I want to send a very strong warning to the police. When I mention the police, I mean the institutions that are responsible for handling suspects. One does not lose one’s humanity by being a suspect. We want them to abide by the law and ensure that suspects are brought before the courts of law within the prescribed time, which is forty-eight hours in case of a weekend. In case a working day, it is twenty-four hours. This is according Section 33 of the Criminal Procedure Code, Cap 88 of the Laws of Zambia.

 

Mr Chairperson, we are also concerned about extra judicial killings that have been recorded in this country at the hands of the police. We have not forgotten how, very recently, lives were lost at the hands of the police. I am a former policeman, and I feel that the manner in which the police conducted themselves in the previous regime must never be allowed to recur in this country. There was a needless loss of life. For instance, the death of our brother, which continues to ring bells, Nsama Nsama, needed never to have happened in this generation and should never happen again. The police must take it as an honour to serve the people and not treat suspects as if the police are a court of law. The police are not a court in any sense. They must bring suspects before courts of law within the prescribed time.

 

Mr Chairperson, I am aware of a matter that I have been handling where, for 112 days, people alleged to have burnt the City Market were picked up from Livingstone and brought all the way to Lusaka. They were tortured and badly beaten and yet they are citizens of Zambia. They were kept for 112 days without appearing before any court of law; shuttling between police stations. They were kept at Lilayi Police Station for 112 days in a democratic State. The Human Rights Commission must take interest in this. We do not want to see extra judicial killings. We also do not want the police to be a court in any sense because the police are not there to act as a court. They must take the suspects to court within the law that is prescribed.

 

Mr Chairperson, we are worried about over detention and overcrowding in detention facilities and police stations. The sanitation is much to be desired in police stations and correction facilities. We wish that the Human Rights Commission could up its game and decentralise and get to the ground. The protectors have become abusers and this has been happening for a long time.

 

Mr Chairperson, Zambia ratified the Convention against Torture in 1998, but to date, people are still being tortured while in custody. We want the Human Rights Commission to take interest in these matters. These are our citizens. We are a Government for a reason; we are a Government to look after the people. The people elected the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government to ensure that we change the bad habits, if there were any. We must ensure that we up the game and human rights are respected.

 

Mr Chairperson, allow me also to address my mind to the delayed dispensation of justice in the Republic Zambia. I am an amicus curiae, a friend of the court, and an Advocate in the Republic of Zambia. I am worried about the delay to dispense justice in this country. In law we say, justice delayed is justice denied. We have our brothers who have been kept in detention for a very long time without appearing before any court of law. It is very heavy to stand as an accused person. The law must be changed and tilted towards respect for human rights.

 

Mr Chairperson, in addition, for the people, or our brothers who have been convicted, today the law is that for one to ‘what’ one needs to have no previous criminal record. If one served a sentence, why should one continue for the rest of one’s life to be treated as such? For one to be employed in the Government, one must never have been convicted for a criminal offence. One served that sentence. Why do you expect of me? Why should they be condemned forever? That is a violation of my human rights. The laws must be changed to tilt towards the respect for human rights.

 

Sir, allow me to also address the issue of political violence and cadreism. At this point, I want to thank His Excellency the President, Cabinet and the New Dawn Government, in particular, on the issue of taking away or removing cadreism. The criminals were hiding in the political arena as cadres whilst committing atrocities against our people and violating human rights. We are happy as we move around to see citizens wearing t-shirts for the Patriotic Front (PF) for example; wearing t-shirts for the UPND, wearing any attire because that is what democracy entails. Democracy is attached to human rights.

 

Sir, democracy is competition of ideas on the market. Let the people choose their ideas. As we go to the by-elections that we will be having very soon, we want to see respect for human rights. Let people be free to express themselves, including our brothers who are now on the left, the minority PF. It is now a small party, but they are our brothers.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 

Mr Andeleki: I speak for them that we also want them to go and campaign freely and because at the moment, they are on the left.

 

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

 The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me a chance, on behalf of the people of Lundazi, to debate on this very important Vote. Human rights are what make all us. If each of us can respect ourselves, we can live at peace even when we being provoked and called a minority. It is because we respect the other human’s right.

 

Hon. PF Member: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Nyirenda: We are talking about the right to equality, the right to freedom, the right to peace, the right to dignity and the right to justice. I want to stand here, firstly, as a gender activist to talk about the rights of women. Most of the time, rights of women are violated. If it is at a construction site, you will find that there is what is called ‘construction bonus.’ Most of the women remain there pregnant with Chinese children, Japanese children or Senegalese, depending on who is doing construction at a particular site. I want to say that is a human right which is being violated.

 

Mr Chairperson, whilst we appreciate the development in different forms and by different people, it is important that the investors who are coming should be able to respect the rights of our children and women.

 

Mr Chairperson, most of the time, we see that our friends, the disabled, are not represented in many areas even here in Parliament. We urge that these human rights are protected so that we can have total representation at every level from the ward and constituency levels. Otherwise, most of the things that affect the disabled will not be attended to.

 

Mr Chairperson, the Human Rights Commission needs the support that everyone needs if we start talking about women who are in prison. Some of the women go to prison pregnant and they have children there. If the mother to such a child is in prison for say ten years, that child also ends up being imprisoned for ten years. These are the things that we need to make sure the Human Rights Commission is considering.

 

Mr Chairperson, I also want to talk about teachers or others who are taking learners as chalk bonus by sleeping with them and impregnating them. We expect to hear a voice from the Human Rights Commission to ensure that when we send our children to school, they are protected. We have had instances where nurses and doctors in some health institutions do not attend to patients on time. If an institution where you are supposed to go and get medical attention has no equipment and medication, it means that the right to live for that particular individual is being curtailed.

 

Sir, with these few remarks, the people of Lundazi want to fully support this Vote knowing how important it is to the execution of justice, bringing about equality and ensuring that each and every ordinary person receives what rightly belongs to them. The major things that we must be looking at either from the left or right is the right for people to have the basic needs such as education, shelter and food. If we make sure that these basic rights are fulfilled for each and every person, then we will be doing justice and we will be worth being called the Thirteenth National Assembly.

 

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

 

Ms Kasune (Keembe): Mr Chairperson, I just want to add the voice of the people of Keembe and, indeed, from us as hon. Members of Parliament. I adopt all the words and sentiments that were spoken by Hon. Brenda Nyirenda as mine. I am just going to add a few things to this debate as we move forward especially in the New Dawn Government.

 

Mr Chairperson, what has been so evident is how His Excellency the President, Her Honour the Vice-President and the Cabinet are giving people freedom to express themselves because one of the things that was being hampered, especially in the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, was the freedom to express oneself. That is one of the very basic human rights that an individual has; to express oneself so that he/she can be heard, however divergent our views may be.

 

Mr Chairperson, the other issue that I really want to talk about is freedom of assembly. I think it is important for us, especially in light of the up-coming by-election in Kabwata, as Zambians to uphold the freedom of assembly for all Zambians, not because of the party we belong to. I was one of those people who were actually hacked. In fact, it was not just me, but my entire team from Keembe Constituency in 2016. I still walk with the panga scars. We were attacked in broad daylight at a filling station there at ZESCO in Lusaka.

 

Mr Chairperson that showed us that this country was at the verge of collapsing and that Zambia is not immune to going down like any other countries that have gone down if we do not watch our human rights. In some of my debates in 2016, I talked about how as Zambians, we should not drink from the chalice that other countries have drunk from. That is the chalice that has led a lot of countries into civil wars. Why has that been so? It is because they forgot or did not want to respect the basic human rights. We are hopeful that in this Government, the very basic right of access to clean water will become a reality. It may not necessarily be connected to human rights, but it is actually a human right. It is a fact, the world over that access to water is a right. It is therefore, important that access to water, especially for our people in rural areas is really looked into through the Vote that is on the Floor of the House. Sometimes, when we talk of human rights, we only see those things that we have considered through advocacy.

 

Mr Chairperson, as the Budget is being presented, another area that I would want to talk about is lack of funding, especially for witnesses in cases where someone’s rights have been infringed upon. You may wish to note that we have not put so much money towards having witnesses accommodated and provided with food. So, I hope that in this budget, somehow, somewhere, we will allocate resources to those who will be key witnesses, especially those coming from very vulnerable backgrounds.

 

Mr Chairperson, I think the other point to add, which Hon. Nyirenda spoke about is the issue of rights for women. It is very difficult to talk about rights for women without talking about having safe homes, for example. How then do we expect a victim whose rights have been trampled upon to go back to the very house where the perpetrator is actually the bread winner of that house and then we expect the victim to go back and then to come back again to report the violation? So, what we see then is a spiral of lack of reported issues and abuses that happen to women in particular because we have not put enough resources for safe homes for our victims. The President himself has experienced human rights violation, and so, we hope that this Government will not only talk about issues freedom of assembly and freedom of expression, but that it will also ensure that facilities such as safe homes are put in place.

 

Mr Chairperson, I am going to extend my point to the one stop centres. I think some of the hon. Members debated this. How do you go to the Victim Support Unit (VSU) where the unit itself is housed in a tin house or office? So, it defeats the whole purpose of victims going to report cases because the actual offices are not encouraging. So, as we look at issues such as sexual reproductive health and human rights and comprehensive sexuality education, let us remember that all these form issues of human rights. Every country or nation that has respected human rights, regardless of gender, religion or one’s geographical position, has been seen to develop. So, the more we hamper human rights, the more we do ourselves disfavour. It has been noted that countries that have promoted women have developed at a faster pace than those which have not. So, we totally support this Vote and we remain hopeful because the Government at hand is one that has created an environment for freedom of speech, freedom of assembly and freedom for people to express themselves and being mindful that as we promote our rights, we do not hamper other people’s rights.

 

Mr Chairperson, I support this Vote and thank you.

 

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for giving the good people of Lumezi an opportunity to debate on this important Vote.

 

Sir, I have seen that there has been a good allocation to this particular Vote, which is very progressive. However, the challenge that we tend to have as leaders, number one, is that we listen to reply and not listen to understand. If you go on page 367 of the Yellow Book, it says:

 

“… train, disseminate, and give information aimed at building a universal culture of Human Rights by imparting knowledge and skills as well as shape the attitude of the public.”

 

Mr Chairperson, I tend to take a route to say that the attitude of the public should be replaced with the attitude of the police. The public is well aware of the human rights that each and every citizen of this country enjoys, but the police in this country operate on the outskirts of these rights based on two issues; either on political lines or tribal lines. This we must mention.

 

Sir, if we do not invest in the attitude of the police on having people harassed on tribal and political lines, we shall continue wasting our resources. I do not agree that money should be channeled to changing the attitude of the public, but that of the police. Hon. Colleagues on the right have a bigger responsibility to change the narrative and status quo of having people harassed based on political and tribal lines like we are witnessing right now.

 

Mr Chairperson, I, again take you to page 363, which talks of strategy as follows:

 

“The Human Rights Commission shall promote and protect human rights and fundamental freedoms of all people in Zambia through investigations …”

 

Sir, we are spending more resources on this issue and what we are doing outside this House is the exact opposite. We should not only be seen to be offering lip service. The people of Lumezi are wondering why we should be in a perpetual habit of transporting suspects whom we cannot even give a mere callout to appear before the police, but instead spend taxpayers’ money transporting someone from Lusaka to Lumezi because I stoned someone’s vehicle.

 

Mr Chairperson, as I support this Vote, it is my sincere hope and prayer that we shall not continue to say something in this august House and then do the opposite when we are outside. Posterity has a tendency of judging us politicians harshly. I assure you that if you look on your right and left, you will see that no political party has a youthful leader in them apart from the hon. Independent Members. I am talking about a youth not defined by political ‘cadrism’, but a youth defined to be in the age of fifteen to thirty-five years old. None of them can show us that they support the aspirations of young people. That is a fact. Look on your right and on your left. The majority have grey hair.

 

Laughter

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 

Mr Zulu, you are now going off your way. We are supposed to debate the policy statement by Her Honour the Vice-President.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Thank you for your guidance, Mr Chairperson. I am trying to send a message. These are human rights we are talking about. You are infringing on my human rights by curtailing.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Chairperson, this issue of not supporting young people by hon. Colleagues on the right and hon. Colleagues seated with me on the left is something that we should all pay particular attention to. We may be setting a time bomb that might explode one day. As I support this Vote, I hope we can be seen to be practical with that which is appearing on the Vote for the Human Rights Commission. Let us not just continue allowing police officers to harass citizens on political and tribal lines.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Mr Chisanga will be the last speaker on this Vote.

 

Mr Chisanga (Lukashya): Mr. Chairperson, I just want to start by saying that the people of Lukashya also do support this Vote 100 per cent because of the importance of the institution that we are discussing. Most of what I wanted to say and canvass in support of this Head has been addressed by my hon. Colleague, Hon. Andeleki. I can say I am going to adopt what he said on the Floor of the House, but only to separate from the bit that talks about him describing the Patriotic Front (PF) as a small party.

 

Mr Chairperson, I remind Mr Andeleki that the PF to which he once belonged is a collection of patriots. It is actually not a small party. It is currently rebranding, reforming and waiting to come back to Government in 2026.

 

Sir, the Human Rights Commission (HRC) is a very important institution in the enhancement of the human rights profile in the country. The fact that it needs to be adequately funded cannot be overemphasised. It is gratifying to learn that the HRC has been adequately funded in this Budget and we give credit to the Government. My position is that most of these resources must be devoted to civic awareness and education. It is trite that Zambian citizens do not know in the main what civil liberties, freedoms and rights the Constitution reserves for them. They also do not know what obligations they have as citizens of the Republic of Zambia.

 

Mr Chairperson, we, the people of Lukashya Constituency, therefore, expect to see the deployment of these resources to civic education and awareness. There must be a culture of teaching our citizens about human rights and the Bill of Rights that guarantees the rights and freedoms of citizens of this republic. We expect, therefore, that the teaching system is going to be penetrated by the activities of the HRC to ensure that our children, even when they go to school, they devote part of their learning process to learning about human rights in civics, which I know they do, but at a much more detailed level with the involvement of the HRC.

 

Sir, I add that in the teaching of human rights, there must also be an attempt to ensure that some of the provisions of the Constitution, particularly the Bill of Rights, are translated to local languages. Some of us are hon. Members of Parliament in rural constituencies where access to education is very restricted. We would like to see the people that we preside over to also have a part of sharing in the activities of the nation by learning what rights the Constitution reserves for them and a vehicle such as the HRC is important for achieving this deliverable.

 

Mr Chairperson, there was talk about the violation of human rights in the past regime. There seems to be a narrative that has been created by our hon. Colleagues on your right that there was too much human rights violation in the country when the PF was in Government. They seem to be paying a very blind eye to what is going on currently.

 

Sir, it is not unusual now to go on social media and see youths clad in the United Party for National Development (UPND) attire stripping their friends and whipping them in broad daylight in the presence of a camera and shamelessly putting it public domain. I think our friends must begin to speak to this so that the nation can know that sometimes you can change the players, but you cannot change the game.

 

Mr Chairperson, for us to ensure that human rights are respected countrywide, we should be able to be ready to address ourselves to both the historical problems this country has been experiencing and the current ones that we are experiencing. It does not help a country for somebody to ignore what is happening today and pay attention to what was happening yesterday for the sake of making political capital.

 

Mr Chairperson, with these few remarks, the people of Lukashya do support this Head vehemently and I thank you.

 

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for giving the good people of Lumezi an opportunity to debate on this important Vote.

 

Sir, I have seen that there has been a good allocation to this particular Vote, which is very progressive. However, the challenge that we tend to have as leaders, number one, is that we listen to reply and not listen to understand. If you go on page 367 of the Yellow Book, it says:

 

“…train, disseminate, and give information aimed at building a universal culture of Human Rights by imparting knowledge and skills as well as shape the attitude of the public.”

 

Mr Chairperson, I tend to take a route to say that the attitude of the public should be replaced with the attitude of the police. The public is well aware of the human rights that each and every citizen of this country enjoys, but the police in this country operate on the outskirts of these rights based on two issues; either on political lines or tribal lines. This we must mention.

 

Sir, if we do not invest in the attitude of the police on having people harassed on tribal and political lines, we shall continue wasting our resources. I do not agree that money should be channeled to changing the attitude of the public, but that of the police. Hon. Colleagues on the right have a bigger responsibility to change the narrative and status quo of having people harassed based on political and tribal lines like we are witnessing right now.

 

Mr Chairperson, I, again take you to page 363, which talks of strategy as follows:

 

“The Human Rights Commission shall promote and protect human rights and fundamental freedoms of all people in Zambia through investigations …”

 

Sir, we are spending more resources on this issue and what we are doing outside this House is the exact opposite. We should not only be seen to be offering lip service. The people of Lumezi are wondering why we should be in a perpetual habit of transporting suspects whom we cannot even give a mere callout to appear before the police, but instead spend taxpayers’ money transporting someone from Lusaka to Lumezi because I stoned someone’s vehicle.

 

Mr Chairperson, as I support this Vote, it is my sincere hope and prayer that we shall not continue to say something in this august House and then do the opposite when we are outside. Posterity has a tendency of judging us politicians harshly. I assure you that if you look on your right and left, you will see that no political party has a youthful leader in them apart from the hon. Independent Members. I am talking about a youth not defined by political ‘cadrism’, but a youth defined to be in the age of fifteen to thirty-five years old. None of them can show us that they support the aspirations of young people. That is a fact. Look on your right and on your left. The majority have grey hair.

 

Laughter

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 

Mr Zulu, you are now going off your way. We are supposed to debate the policy statement by Her Honour the Vice-President.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Thank you for your guidance, Mr Chairperson. I am trying to send a message. These are human rights we are talking about. You are infringing on my human rights by curtailing.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Chairperson, this issue of not supporting young people by hon. Colleagues on the right and hon. Colleagues seated with me on the left is something that we should all pay particular attention to. We may be setting a time bomb that might explode one day. As I support this Vote, I hope we can be seen to be practical with that which is appearing on the Vote for the Human Rights Commission. Let us not just continue allowing police officers to harass citizens on political and tribal lines.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Mr Chisanga will be the last speaker on this Vote.

 

Mr Chisanga (Lukashya): Mr. Chairperson, I just want to start by saying that the people of Lukashya also do support this Vote 100 per cent because of the importance of the institution that we are discussing. Most of what I wanted to say and canvass in support of this Head has been addressed by my hon. Colleague, Hon. Andeleki. I can say I am going to adopt what he said on the Floor of the House, but only to separate from the bit that talks about him describing the Patriotic Front (PF) as a small party.

 

Mr Chairperson, I remind Mr Andeleki that the PF to which he once belonged is a collection of patriots. It is actually not a small party. It is currently rebranding, reforming and waiting to come back to Government in 2026.

 

Sir, the Human Rights Commission (HRC) is a very important institution in the enhancement of the human rights profile in the country. The fact that it needs to be adequately funded cannot be overemphasised. It is gratifying to learn that the HRC has been adequately funded in this Budget and we give credit to the Government. My position is that most of these resources must be devoted to civic awareness and education. It is trite that Zambian citizens do not know in the main what civil liberties, freedoms and rights the Constitution reserves for them. They also do not know what obligations they have as citizens of the Republic of Zambia.

 

Mr Chairperson, we, the people of Lukashya Constituency, therefore, expect to see the deployment of these resources to civic education and awareness. There must be a culture of teaching our citizens about human rights and the Bill of Rights that guarantees the rights and freedoms of citizens of this republic. We expect, therefore, that the teaching system is going to be penetrated by the activities of the HRC to ensure that our children, even when they go to school, they devote part of their learning process to learning about human rights in civics, which I know they do, but at a much more detailed level with the involvement of the HRC.

 

Sir, I add that in the teaching of human rights, there must also be an attempt to ensure that some of the provisions of the Constitution, particularly the Bill of Rights, are translated to local languages. Some of us are hon. Members of Parliament in rural constituencies where access to education is very restricted. We would like to see the people that we preside over to also have a part of sharing in the activities of the nation by learning what rights the Constitution reserves for them and a vehicle such as the HRC is important for achieving this deliverable.

 

Mr Chairperson, there was talk about the violation of human rights in the past regime. There seems to be a narrative that has been created by our hon. Colleagues on your right that there was too much human rights violation in the country when the PF was in Government. They seem to be paying a very blind eye to what is going on currently.

 

Sir, it is not unusual now to go on social media and see youths clad in the United Party for National Development (UPND) attire stripping their friends and whipping them in broad daylight in the presence of a camera and shamelessly putting it public domain. I think our friends must begin to speak to this so that the nation can know that sometimes you can change the players, but you cannot change the game.

 

Mr Chairperson, for us to ensure that human rights are respected countrywide, we should be able to be ready to address ourselves to both the historical problems this country has been experiencing and the current ones that we are experiencing. It does not help a country for somebody to ignore what is happening today and pay attention to what was happening yesterday for the sake of making political capital.

 

Mr Chairperson, with these few remarks, the people of Lukashya do support this Head vehemently and I thank you.

 

Mr Chairperson, if we debate the organisation’s proposed Budget, I appeal to this august House to be wary of the sensitivity of this institution so that we do not debate in a manner that could compromise the security of this nation. More importantly, I request the House to render the necessary support.

 

Budget Estimates for 2022

 

Mr Chairperson, at this juncture, let me turn to the proposed 2022 Budget Estimates for the Zambia Security Intelligence Service. The 2022 Budget Estimates stands at K962,976,051 which represents an increase of 13.91 per cent from the 2021 approved Estimates. Let me underscore the factor that compared to the previous years, this is a substantial increment, indicative of the New Dawn Government’s commitment to supporting the work of this strategic institution. In turn, we are confident that the Zambia Security Intelligence Service will meet the expectations of the people of Zambia of not only being a professional institution but also the first line of defence for the Republic.

 

Mr Chairperson, as I conclude, permit me to reiterate my appeal to this august House to fully support the 2022 Budget Estimates for the Zambia Security Intelligence Service.

 

Mr Chairperson, I thank you most sincerely.

 

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Mr Chairperson, I thank Her Honour the Vice-President for the policy statement. The people of Chitambo are in support of the Budget for this Head and are looking forward to having this security wing adequately funded. As we support this Head, we want to comment on a few things that we see that need the security intelligence unit to improve on.

 

Mr Chairperson, Her Honour the Vice-President might be aware that there are many crimes that are committed in this country, which sometimes, as members of the public anticipate that some of them can be stopped if this part of the security wing is moving in at the right time and enforcing or informing those charged with the necessary rights to combat crime. Many are a time that we wake up to a rude shock like the instance of the forty-eight houses that we failed for a long time to find who the owner was. It took a lot of time for this owner to come on board when in fact, when these houses were being built, everyone was there to see. This is wing which is supposed to inform the Government on time about certain happenings. As right as Her Honour the Vice-President might have put it that this is a strategic institution, indeed it is, and if it is well-utilised, even the cyber crimes that we have seen coming on board can be adequately adjusted to lower levels.

 

Mr Chairperson, cyber bullying has become the norm of the day in this country. Today, I was listening to some radio programme where the Non-Governmental Gender Organisations Coordinating Council (NGOCC) is appealing to the Government to find a way of stopping cyber bullying especially on women politicians. Indeed, it is true that this matter must be looked into if the intelligence unit is equipped with necessary tools to manage the cyber crimes.

 

Mr Chairperson, let me also speak to the issues which have rocked our country where we receive reports of early child marriages and pregnancies among young children. This is a wing which can help us to combat this very dangerous retrogressive traditional arrangement that is happening in most rural parts of our country. So, indeed, if we sufficiently fund the intelligence wing, we can have most of the crimes adequately combated and brought to lower levels. Again, I must state that this wing must help the President in addressing other sensitive matters pertaining to the governance of this country. If this wing is advising the President in a manner that is correct and straight forward, many of the issues can be handled and the President will always come out to be a true leader. It is my appeal that our intelligence unit is always reporting to the President the way things are obtaining and to not turn and report in the opposite.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! I think one of the important things that we have to adhere to is to pay attention or be very attentive when a policy statement is being read. I think Her Honour the Vice-President mentioned that this is quite a sensitive institution that we should not evaluate how it operates. So, I think we should bear in mind how we are trying to put across our debate. I think it will be unfair that we have been cautioned as hon. Members of Parliament and we do something contrary to that. The institution is quite delicate and so, it is difficult for an hon. Member of Parliament to start evaluating how it operates and who it reports to. I just wanted to put that across to everyone to be mindful as we debate. You can continue.

 

Mr Mutale: Mr Chairperson, I take that as a comment and an addition to my debate. This is a unit which reports to the President and its Budget comes to Parliament for approval. Therefore, we must comment on it because it also uses public money. Public funds must be used to the advantage of the public. So, no matter how delicate the institution might be, as long as its Budget comes to Parliament, we shall comment on it not until, maybe, when this Parliament again feels that this Budget should not be coming here for us to look at. At the end of the end, this Budget should also pass through the Office of the Auditor General for it to be checked.

 

Mr Chairperson, indeed, we shall ensure that as hon. Members of Parliament, we have an opportunity to offer oversight to all the institutions in this country. As much as they offer oversight to us, we shall also do the same.

 

Mr Chairperson, may I end by thanking you for the opportunity to debate.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr C. Mpundu: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, and I thank Her Honour the Vice-President.

 

Mr Chairperson, as we all aware, security is a critical component in the development process. Since security has evolved, henceforth, we are expected to see to it that our intelligence services unit is modernised. We need to modernise it and it should not remain the way it has been.

 

Mr Chairperson, in addition, we also need to look at capacity building, since the crime trend has also evolved such as cyber crime and terrorism. Henceforth, capacity building in our intelligence services unit is so critical and it should meet international standards. The training should be based on international standards if we are to curb crimes emanating from our society.

 

Mr Chairperson, we also need to look at the aspect of areas where offices of the Zambia Security Intelligence Services are not there, so that the officers are found everywhere for them to do their duty diligently and on time.

 

Mr Chairperson, the people of Chembe support this budget on the Floor of the House of the Zambia Security Intelligence Services. However, it needs more funding because there cannot be development without security. We need to be assured of security so that even the things that we will bring on board to develop our society are protected.

 

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

 

The Vice-President: Mr Chairperson, I thank Hon. Mpundu and Hon. Mutale for the debate on the estimates of expenditure of this Vote. Hon. Mpundu said that security is a critical component of development and Hon. Mutale noted the importance of this institution.

 

Mr Chairperson, I will also be very careful as I wind up debate because I do not belong to this institution and I can say the wrong things. However, we all appreciate the importance of this institution because our security, and not that of an individual, depends on how this institution operates.

 

Mr Chairperson, I thank the hon. Members for supporting this Vote. If there was more money, I am sure more resources would have been allocated to this Vote. I believe that will happen as the economy grows and as crimes evolve. New crimes such as cyber crime have emerged and we need to strengthen the institution.

 

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

 

Vote 78 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 87– (Anti-Corruption Commission – K101,070,614).

 

The Vice-President: Mr Chairperson, I rise to present the Estimates of Expenditure for the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) for the year 2022. The ACC is established under the Anti-Corruption Act No.3 of 2021. Its main functions include:

 

1. investigation and prosecution of suspected cases of corruption;
2. undertaking corruption prevention interventions in both public and private institutions; and
3. undertaking anti-corruption public awareness campaigns on the dangers of corruption.

 

Mr Chairperson, the commission’s mission statement is: “to effectively and impartially prevent and combat corruption in order to promote integrity, transparency and accountability for the attainment of a corruption free Zambia”.

 

Mr Chairperson, the vision for the commission is: “A proactive impartial and professional anti-corruption agency that promotes the attainment of a corrupt free Zambia”.

 

Mr Chairperson, Zambia’s socio and economic development has continued to be undermined by pervasive and systematic corruption that has over the years eroded the moral and social fabric of this nation. This has compromised the Government’s effectiveness in providing adequate services to its citizens. The Government has further continued to lose huge sums of money through corrupt practices, particularly in the procurement of goods and services, including infrastructure development. This has to end now.

 

Mr Chairperson, I therefore, wish to take this opportunity to once again urge any persons who may have acquired property and other resources illegally to surrender such items to law enforcement agencies before the long arm of the law visits them. The New Dawn Government is determined to ensure that corruption is curtailed and has since waged war against corruption. The Government will, therefore, undertake the following measures, among others:

 

1. strengthen oversight and governance institutions;
2. review the policy and legal framework for oversight institutions; and
3. increase funding to enhance operational independence of the oversight institutions.

 

Review of the 2021 ACC Budget Performance

 

Mr Chairperson, let me inform this august House that during this fiscal year, the commission’s key output indicators included:

 

1. proportion of investigated cases concluded;
2. two proportion of prosecuted cases resulting in conviction;
3. number of people sentenced; and
4. number of integrity committees operationalised.

 

Mr Chairperson, despite some setbacks experienced as a result of the onset of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic, the commission managed to register the following milestones:

 

1. 337 investigation cases have so far been concluded out of 1,102;
2. the estimated value of property which has been ceased restricted or forfeited to the State amounts K227,959,992;
3. twenty arrests have so far been effected while the number of cases before the courts of law is twenty-six. Seven cases have been concluded in the courts of law, of which five convictions have been secured;
4. over 700 sensitisation activities have been conducted reaching over 1 million people throughout the country; and
5. out of the 123 established integrity committees, training was conducted in seventeen institutions for integrity committee members and focal point persons.

 

2022 Budget Estimates

 

Mr Chairperson, allow me to now present to this august House the Estimates of Expenditure for the ACC for the year 2022.

 

Mr Chairperson, in order to invigorate the fight against corruption, the Government will undertake the following measures in both the immediate and medium-term:

 

1. enhance the detection and combating of corruption through the investigation and prosecution of cases;
2. strengthen corruption prevention interventions;
3. intensify public awareness programmes; and
4. strengthen the ACC legal and institutional framework.

 

Mr Chairperson, in undertaking the above programmes, the commission will specifically undertake the following activities:

 

1. effective and efficient investigation and prosecution of corruption cases with a focus on the timely conclusion of investigations to ensure value for money:
2. undertake the review of the Anti-Corruption Act No. 3 of 2012;
3. increase investment in staff development and welfare to develop a skilled and motivated workforce;
4. scale-up corruption prevention interventions in both private and public institutions; and
5. increase public awareness, lobbying and visibility programmes.

 

Mr Chairperson, the budget allocation for the ACC for the year 2022 is K100,070,614. This allocation represents an increase of 39 per cent from the K72,787,743 allocated in 2021.

 

Mr Chairperson, I now wish to seek the support of the hon. Members of this august House to approve this important budget line.

 

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

 

Mr Kamboni (Kalomo Central): Mr Chairperson, the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) plays a very vital role in the economy, in employment creation and many other areas.

 

Mr Chairperson, in the past ten years, we lost huge sums of money. At one time, we lost K6.1 billion in six months, which the ACC could have used for many years if it was given that money. It went but nobody was arrested or charged. So, we need to invest more in the ACC so that we can save money that can eventually help the country. If we do not do that, then, we will be back to square one.

 

Mr Chairperson, I am very happy with this budget and it shows seriousness. Firstly, there is an increase of 39 per cent. This is a remarkable step that the Government has taken so that with this 39 per cent, the ACC can wake up again, because in the previous Government, it was literally done.

 

Mr Chairperson, Her Honour the Vice-President also talked about public awareness and giving the ACC more power. This is the way it should be. The ACC should be free to investigate anybody in the country, and is not supposed to get permission to investigate some people. This is the way we began destroying the ACC. So, we now need to start building this commission so that it can save a lot of money, which in turn can be used to serve the citizens. We can use this same money for free education, meal allowances and many other activities that are needed in the country.

 

Mr Chairperson, in my view, as we go on, we will surely give the ACC more money than –

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1255 hours until 1430 hours.

 

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

 

Mr Kamboni (Kalomo Central): Madam Chairperson, if we look at the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) very well, the country would benefit a lot. Like I said, when you look at how much of tax payers’ money was lost from the Government, it is quite a sad story.

 

Madam Chairperson, I was also saying that the Budget has been increased by 39 per cent, which is commendable. However, we still need more for this Commission.

 

Madam Chairperson, one other area that the New Dawn Government has to look at is the conditions of service for the workers. If we do not take care of the workers in the Anti-Corruption Commission very well, they can all be bought in the process of trying to pursue corruption. So, the workers’ plight needs to be looked into so that they can really work freely once they are well taken care of. So, bit by bit, the conditions of service for the workers in the Anti-Corruption Commission need to be looked into.

 

Madam Chairperson, the Government spent a lot of money training many officers who left after training. After we trained them, we failed to maintain them because we could not really give them remuneration that could sustain them. That is why experienced officers are leaving and those who come, in some cases, are still new and cannot handle the anti-corruption cases very well. So, they end up losing cases which they could have easily won because possibly, they did not have enough experience.

 

Madam Chairperson, we need also to come up with a policy that can make sure that we retain good workers; those we have extensively trained with the skills because the Government can benefit a lot by having a truthful anti-corruption fight.

 

Madam Chairperson, on the issue of transport too, officers need to move to areas where they are. In some cases, in the old regime, one would find that one reports a case and the Anti-Corruption Commission does not have enough transport. This is one area also that should be looked into so that they are able to move in very fast, collect evidence and do the work as they need to.

 

Madam Chairperson, one other area we need to look at is capacity. You have the whole province with only one office for the Anti-Corruption Commission. Why should I move all the way from Maamba or Sinazeze and go all the way to Choma or Livingstone to report a case? It becomes a huge cost because, now, workers have become very sophisticated with this internet. So, we need to increase the capacity of the Anti-Corruption Commission. We need to double the number of workers so that they are found everywhere, if possible, in each and every district. Yes, we have managed, for a long time, to maintain them just at provincial level. So, there are in all provinces except in Muchinga, and at district level, in Livingstone and Chirundu, and only because the headquarters shifted from Livingstone to Choma and some workers remained there. I think we could do much better if we had an office in each and every district because these can help in saving the little money we have for the country.

 

Madam Chairperson, if those who embezzle Government money, the plunderers, are seen and nothing is done, then other people are being invited to join the queue of plunderers. However, when they see that those who have done so are punished heavily, others will learn lessons. This is why we need now to make sure that this Commission is well taken care of to be able to do its work effectively.

 

Madam Chairperson, the other area of anti-corruption that we need to look at is the intelligence unit. It needs to keep its intelligence very well so that when all these cases are done, they will have all that is necessary to have people prosecuted accordingly. However, if the intelligence is not also increased and strengthened then the anti-corruption will remain as incapacitated as it has been.

 

Madam Chairperson, when the anti-corruption has ceased property, it needs to manage that property so that when it is ceased, its value is maintained for the Government to benefit. So, there is need also to look at asset management of what has been confiscated and ceased from plunders or embezzlers of national assets. So, this department equally needs to be strengthened.

 

Madam Chairperson, like now, I want to thank the New Dawn Government that the ACC has been given the leeway to investigate freely and it has begun to work. However, what we should realise as the New Dawn Government is that these where done because the ACC had to get permission for some people to be prosecuted. It should not happen like that. Some files were awaiting commencement of prosecution. The ACC finished files are awaiting hon. Ministers and other people because they were not allowed to go ahead.

 

Madam Chairperson, how could you have a commission, for a long period of more than three years, being run by somebody who is incapacitated, sick and is not reporting for work and all the files you are handling are waiting because those involved are Government officers. Now, the ACC is free. There is a Government that allows freedom. So, we expect, with this tax that it has been given, to do its job effectively so that we can save money for everyone’s child to go to school; for us to build science; for us to create empowerment fees for our children and many other youths.

 

Madam Chairperson, with these few words, I would like to thank you for allowing me to air a few words on this Motion.

 

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

 

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Chairperson, I would like to thank you for according me this opportunity to debate on Vote 87 on behalf of the people of Chama North Constituency. First and foremost, I thank Her Honour the Vice-President for a well outlined policy statement.

 

Madam Chairperson, I support the budget which has been given to the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) because I believe that this is a very important state institution of good governance. I am happy that there has been an increased budgetary allocation by 39 per cent. I think this is a step in the right direction, but we need more resources to this particular institution because corruption is becoming more sophisticated.

 

Madam Chairperson, I will be failing in my duties if I do not pay tribute the late Dr Kenneth Kaunda over the ACC because it was his brain child. This institution was established in 1980 and Dr Kaunda provided a selfless and dedicated service to this nation. He took the fight against corruption to a much higher level and, it is my prayer that we, the current crop of leaders, emulate the legacy of Dr Kenneth Kaunda.

 

Madam Chairperson, the Anti-corruption Commission, of course, is tasked to prevent and take necessary and effective measures for the prevention of corruption in public and private sectors. It also receives and investigates complaints of alleged suspected corrupt practices and disseminates information on the socioeconomic effects of corrupt practices.

 

Madam Chairperson, corruption, nepotism and tribalism just to mention a few are serious diseases which continue to hinder the development of Africa, including Zambia. As such, despite being endowed with abundant natural resources, Africa houses the poorest of the poor in the world. Actually, our people share water with domestic and wild animals because certain people take money which is meant for improvement of public service.

 

Madam Chairperson, in light of the foregoing, I think the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) must elevate the fight against corruption to a much higher level regardless of political affiliation or connections. This idea of just following up on leaders after they leave office is totally unacceptable. Why are they holding office if they cannot investigate or prosecute people who are in office? They wait until those people leave office. I think we are doing a disservice to this nation. It is better you lose your job for standing firm. It is better that way because history is going to judge you well than allow corruption to take place and wait until after 2026 to follow former hon. Ministers or Permanent Secretaries (PSs). I think, this way, we are going to lose the fight against corruption. We are going to advocate that the ACC should continue to receive more resources.

 

Madam Chairperson, as my hon. Colleague stated, we need to devolve these structures to district level, especially that districts now will be having a lot of money. This institution is very important. We need capacity building so that our officers are able to confront these sophisticated cases of corruption in this new world order.

 

Further, we need to strengthen institutions of governance like the ACC and the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC), to mention but a few. Yesterday, I talked about strong institutions. Africa shall not develop without strong institutions. We can change presidents a 100 times, but for as long as we do not change institutions of governance and we do not make them autonomous and have teeth to bite, I can assure you that we will be singing about corruption in the next 100 years from now.

 

Madam Chairperson, I want to see a situation where the Director-General of the ACC and these other law enforcement agencies have security of tenure. It is important that if we are to strengthen these institutions, the Director-General and Directors should have security of tenure. I can assure you that we shall move forward as a country.

 

Madam Chairperson, I remember thirteen years ago, one Director-General at the ACC decided to investigate a person from DEC. That Director-General was retired in national interest. That was thirteen years ago. We do not want that situation where when these people do their job, you persecute them.

 

Madam Chairperson, the ACC must not be used as a tool to settle political scores against perceived political opponents. I mentioned that this idea of following up on people after they have left office is not helping this country. Let us invest more to prevent corruption and not where you wait until the Auditor-General produces a report. Please, it is important that we be proactive.

 

Madam Chairperson, I want to see a situation where, as a country, the ACC can even prosecute the President or the Vice-President, and not where we wait until these people leave office. Look at Israel. The Prime Minister is charged and goes to court in that country. That way, we will be elevating the bar of leadership to a higher level.

 

Madam Chairperson, there are many perceptions against politicians, and one of them is that we are thieves. In 1991, we were told that Kaunda stole K6 billion. I was a young man that time. I voted against KK because of that. However, when KK left office, he was investigated and it was found that he was as clean as his white handkerchief. So, you see, let us not take perceptions to be the gospel truth. What is happening to the former leaders and those who were there before will also happen to the leaders on the right side. So, I think it is important that perceptions are fought. Every person is presumed innocent until proven guilty. This culture of whoever is in office is a thief, I do not think will to take this country anywhere.

 

Madam Chairperson, I want to appeal to the ACC to collaborate with other law enforcement agencies like DEC and the Zambia Security Intelligence Services so that we up the game against corruption.

 

Madam Chairperson, in conclusion, the fight against corruption should not just be focused on Cabinet Ministers and Permanent Secretaries (PSs). Actually, corruption is deep-rooted at the bottom. You will find that directors and clerks own property which hon. Ministers do not own. We spend all our time and resources investigating former Cabinet Ministers, leaving the major culprits.

 

Madam Chairperson, I want to also state here that even the officers at the ACC must undergo a lifestyle audit because some officers in these law enforcement agencies –

 

The Chairperson: Order!

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

Mr Mulebwa (Kafulafuta): Madam Chairperson, thank you very much for according me this opportunity to submit my humble opinion to the debate on the Motion on the Floor.

 

Madam Chairperson, by definition, the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) is a Government wing that is designated to ensure that all corrupt tendencies in the Government and outside the Government are extinguished, and perpetrators are brought to book regardless of their status in society. This simply means that if a person who might not be influential in our society goes to report a case –

 

Hold on, let me just mask up.

 

Mr Mulubwa wore his mask.

 

Mr Mulubwa: Madam Speaker, if a person who does not hold a high office in our society goes to the ACC to report a case which, of course, would be provable, the ACC is expected to act without hesitation and without regarding the class or status of the individual who has taken the case to it. However, sometimes, this has not been the case. I, personally, remember having taken a case to the ACC in 2014. I had all the evidence and nobody was interested in looking at the case I took before them. Fortunately or unfortunately, about two months after, one of the Cabinet Ministers then was sued by a company for defamation of character and the hon. Minister did not have evidence, but I had the evidence that was needed to prove his case. I called the hon. Minister who had been sued and he was gracious enough to invite me here at the National Assembly and we had our conversation in one of the rooms. Thereafter, he called the Director-General and presented all the facts before the ACC. To cut the long story short, I was called and I presented all my evidence. Afterwards, I was told my case had been handed over to management and so on and so forth. However, to my disappointment, after I had been reassured that the people we reported had been found with a case to answer, the case disappeared into thin air to this date.

 

Madam Chairperson, I personally think that when the Government spends colossal sums of money like we have seen in this budget, which I totally support, we expect the ACC to work the way it ought to work with principle and determination. It is not going to help us as a nation when we have people who are going to fear so much for their jobs than they ought to act in a professional manner.

 

Madam, after this budget is approved, as Zambians and people of Kafulafuta, we will be expecting the Anti Corruption Commission (ACC) to work the way it ought to work as a unit that is designated to protect Zambians and the Government from corruption. I earlier thought that maybe, the other thing we need to look at and have addressed, was to raise the perks for the staff at the ACC. However, I just realised that no matter how much somebody gets, if they are corrupt, they are corrupt. It is not how much they get that will determine whether they will accept to be corrupt or not. Corruption is a sickness that – pardon me if that does not sound parliamentary – but this is something that has nothing to do with how much somebody gets. It will even be worse if their perks are increase and at the end of the day, they still continue with the corruption. So, we will be losing from both ends.

 

Madam Chairperson, I support the budget, but of course, with a caution that we need to see results from this wing of Government. Not going back to the same old system were people with influence will go scot free, then we see people who do not have a high status in society being followed wherever they go. We would like this unit to work professionally, efficiently and without comprise. I think this is what is going to justify the amount of money that is going to be spent on the ACC to work professionally. If it means losing one’s job, let them lose it because they acted professionally. The way nature is, you lose a job because you acted professionally, at some point, like we have seen the New Dawn Government has now come out in the open and said if you lost your job as a result of victimisation, submit your papers and we will reinstate you. This is what it means to work with integrity and to be loyal to your nation. So, I wish to conclude my debate by saying that the people of Kafulafuta immensely support this budget. At the same time, we are looking forward to having an ACC that is not compromised in any way.

 

Madam Chairperson, with these few words, I wish to thank you and I wish to thank Her Honour the Vice-President for the elaborate presentation.

 

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate the Vote for Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC). I also want to thank Her Honour the Vice-President for the policy statement.

 

Madam Chairperson, the ACC is a state institution that provides an oversight role. This is an institution that is supposed to provide checks and balances on all citizens of Zambia and protect people from malicious public persecution. The ACC must act within its confinement and within the law, without any political manipulation or any politically induced fights.

 

Madam Chairperson, in Zambia, all of us look up to the institution of governance for protection and for making sure that people are protected regardless of which part of the country or the political divide that they belong to. In Zambia, corruption is a cancer that takes way the moral fibre, not just from the people, but also from those who are accused. So, when perceptions grow, we must be able to have a professional body that stands up and fights corruption professionally and protects people regardless of where they come from. When Her Honour the Vice-President was moving a policy statement, I said that is how it ought to be. Where she comes from there is a bemba proverb which says that, mumbwe alimbile ubucingo umwine aponenamo. Meaning somebody had set a trap against a friend, but that person ended up trapping himself. So, we must have a professional body in the ACC that investigates and prosecutes crime which has been committed and not perceived crimes where it becomes almost impossible for anyone in Zambia to own a property. Owning a property is not a crime. What is a crime is how that property is acquired.

 

Madam Chairperson, like the other speakers said, it is a fight that only looks at the politicians and those that served in Government without looking at the background of where people are coming from. Others joined politics as civil servants while others joined from the private sector. So, when somebody joins from the private sector and those who could have worked as teachers, you do not just expect everybody to be at the same level. People earn revenue in different ways. Others would choose to spend the money in the bar while others would want to multiply that money. If the money multiplies and somebody invests it, you question them and say, what is this? So, is it good for somebody to spend the money in the bar or maybe on skirts so that he is not investigated? Those are serious questions that we need to ask ourselves.

 

Madam Chairperson, the ACC must be the watchdog. All of us leaders must be able to protect the ACC from public ridicule. Once an institution loses it credibility in the eyes of the people, it becomes very difficult for people to trust it. We must be able to defend it. We must be able to applaud and say yes, when the ACC and all the security wings of Government move, they do a professional job where it is required to issue a public notice and say we received a public complaint against Mr A, B or C and we went in and did our professional job and these are the results. That way, Zambians are able to know that, indeed, investigations were done on Mr B and after the investigations, these are the results. Not where again begin persecuting the systems that we created to say no they cannot do that maybe they are compromised. No, behind those offices are human beings who have children and they have emotions.

 

Madam Chairperson I thank the New Dawn Administration for the increase in the budget allocation to this Vote. We hope our friends will be able to carry professional and anti-corruption fight regardless of where somebody belongs to. I was just chatting with my friend outside, and I said tomorrow hon. Ministers will be scared to build houses; they will be saying if I build a house they will say I have stolen. I would rather go in the bar and spend the money instead of encouraging entrepreneurship skills and those people who work hard and multiply the gains that they get so they create employment and do things that build our economy. This is not to say public workers ought to be tempted to extend their hands and dip their fingers in the national Treasury, no. The National Treasury must be money meant for public good. Those who protect and defend must be able to be protected also and not having a situation where somebody is defending the interest of the state but because he is vulnerable and somebody who has a friend at the ACC will go and say, “my friend and I want a deal at ministry A, and Mr A does not want to give me. If we used you, we will able to tarnish his reputation and kick him out so that we can place in another person then I will get that deal.”

 

Madam, that system should not apply. We must know that people’s reputations that we bring in public ridicule are human beings with families and they have people who follow them. So, I feel that it is important for the ACC to stand for the truth and fight corruption regardless of who is involved and not based on public perception or the court of opinion because you may end up destroying innocent people who may not have a chance to go and appear before the people and clear themselves.

 

Madam Chairperson, I want to appeal to Her Honour the Vice-President that as we support the fight and crusade against corruption, it must be a crusade anchored on the principles of justice, integrity and truth, not on public opinion. People who have done wrong things must be made to account for their wrongs. If somebody has invested properly and followed the procedure, we must be able to applaud them. We must not denounce, demoralise them and call them names. That is not the fight against corruption, but character assassination. So, this is my call on all the security wings of Government. They must investigate the current, previous and future leaders without looking at their political affiliation, but look at what they did and not based on the perception.

 

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

 

Mr Simushi (Sikongo): Madam Chairperson, I would like to thank you for the opportunity to debate Vote 87 – Anti-Corruption Commission. From the outset, allow me to thank Her Honour the Vice-President for a well-articulated policy statement.

 

Madam, I will start by saying that when a fish rots, its tarts from the top.

 

Hon. Government Member: From the head!

 

Mr Simushi: From the head.

 

The level of corruption that we saw in the previous regime was so alarming. I say it was so alarming because the top was highly involved in this corruption.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Simushi: The people of Sikongo are not happy with the current Government because to a certain extent, the resources that should have gone to develop Sikongo …

 

Fube: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

 

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Fube: Madam Chairperson, I thank you for allowing me to raise this point of order.

 

Madam, is the hon. Member of Parliament on the Floor in order to insinuate that the Sixth Republican President was involved in corruption when he is not here to defend himself. According to our Standing Orders, people who are not here to defend themselves are not supposed to be swept in the debate.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Fube: I said Insinuate. You should understand English.

 

The Chairperson: Order!

 

Hon. Members, let us give him chance. Hon. Member, can you cite the Standing Order.

 

Mr Fube: Standing Order 65 (f).

 

Laughter

 

The Chairperson: Hon. Members, let us respect Mr Fube. He has his own point of order. All I can guide is that the hon. Member debating should be focused on the subject area and also the information from the policy statement as well as the figures in the Budget. Please proceed.

 

Mr Simushi: Madam Chairperson, thank you for the guidance, but I will be quick to mention that I never mentioned any person. I said when the fish starts rotting, it starts rotting from the head and the head is big.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Simushi: Madam Chairperson, the role of the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) in as far as the development of this nation is concerned is so huge. This is why I am happy to see the New Dawn Administration increasing the resources towards this very important institution of this country. Unfortunately, what we saw in the previous regime, in as far as how this important institution was operation is saddening.

 

Sir, I have not seen or heard of any officers who have been retired or removed from the ACC, but suddenly, I am seeing the ACC now fully fledged and working very hard. The question is; what has happened? The same officers that were there who should have pursued corrupt cases, but could not do so, today, are the ones that are running up and down doing a very good job. I think the answer is very simple. We have a Head of State and a Government that is serious against corruption.

 

Hon. Government members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Simushi: During the campaigns, the Head of State, His Excellency Mr Hakainde Hichilema and Commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces said there will be zero tolerance towards corruption. I think he is walking the talk because we are seeing this. It is unfortunate that our hon. Colleagues think that the fight against corruption is being vindictive. It is not.

 

Madam Chairperson, when you were amassing resources which were not meant for us, you were alone. There was no tribe or region. You were eating alone. Then, today, when the system is now following you and when the rule of law is at work, then you want to bring issue of tribe and regionalism. The answer is no! You will be pursued alone because you ate alone.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Hammer!

 

Mr Simushi: Madam, when I was disturbed, I was saying that the people of Sikongo are not happy because we should have had the Sikongo/Kalabo Road intact and constructed. We should also have had the Sikongo District Hospital constructed. We should have had the Makoma/Mweni Canal dredged and many other things, but they are not there. I am sure this is becaue resources were misappropriated. Resources were corruptly taken by people, but today, they want to stand and start saying, no, you are pursuing us because we are PF or what. No, there is nothing like that.

 

Madam Chairperson, I am just happy and I salute the people of Zambia for the stance they took during the general election because they are people who wanted to use tribe to deceive the people in making the wrong decision. However, the people from Luapula, Muchinga, the Northern, the Eastern, the Copperbelt provinces and the whole Zambia realised that no, this corruption is not going to take us anywhere. Let us put in place a Government that is going to have our interest at heart, and that is no other than the Government of His Excellency President Hakainde Hichilema. My appeal to all of my hon. Colleagues in this House is that let us give the President the support that he needs. This support should not only be word of mouth. It is supposed to be by action. Let us desist from corrupt practices.

 

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

 

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Chairperson, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order 65 2 (b) which states that the matters that we debate must be verifiable.

 

Madam, I was following Her Honour the Vice-President’s policy statement. In her statement, she gave statistics of cases the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) has been able to deal with in the recent past. Further, I have been here for eleven years. I have appropriated funds to the ACC for it to execute the mandate it is given. Is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to insinuate that the ACC has only started working now?

 

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

 

The Chairperson: Order hon. Members!

 

Let Mr Kampyongo finish his point of order.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Chairperson, those who are saying ‘yes’ should know that Her Honour the Vice-President was giving the policy statement where she was giving statistics here and it is being debated. So, when you are saying ‘yes’, it is not just for making that loud noise. This …

 

The Chairperson: Order!

 

Mr Kampyongo, please continue with your point of order.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Chairperson, is that is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to contradict Her Honour the Vice-President who gave figurative statistics in her policy statement? I seek your serious ruling and guidance on the hon. Member on the Floor.

 

Mr Simushi: Madam Chairperson, as I conclude, …

 

Mr Musumali: Hammer, hammer!

 

Mr Simushi: … I inform the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) that its independence is guaranteed under the New Dawn Administration. So, it should do its job without fear of favour. Prosecute cases regardless of where they are coming from; whether from the UPND, any private person, the PF or any other person. So, it should use that leverage that it has been given to help us as a country to develop because by so doing, it is going to help this country save resources that can be put into productive use.

 

Finally, Madam Chairperson, I want to mention that the people on your left should stop being cry babies.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Simushi: We are only trying to do that which is within our mandate as a Government in power.

 

I thank you so much, Madam Chairperson.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Chairperson: We will take debate from the last person; a voice from the Independent hon. Members of Parliament.

 

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Thank you so very much Madam Chairperson. I should make mention in my preamble that I do not support the allocation to the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC).

 

Mr Musumali: Why?

 

Mr Munir Zulu: I am in this House because of how corrupt they are.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Musumali: How?

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Chairperson, before coming to Parliament as a Member of Parliament, –

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Munir Zulu: –I am on very firm grounds, I was the Chief Executive Officer of United Quarries. Madam Chairperson, I had no intention and I mentioned this to His Excellency the President of Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema –

 

Mr Andeleki: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

 

Madam Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Andeleki: Madam Chairperson, is the hon. Member on the Floor of the House in order to say that the Anti-Corruption Commission is corrupt without laying evidence on the Table or on the Floor of the House. I rise on a point of order based on Standing Order No. 65(1)(b) which relates to an hon. Member debating without being factual and giving verifiable information. I seek your serious ruling.

 

Madam Chairperson: Thank you so much for that point of order. The hon. Member on the Floor, I think we have brought this issue over and over where we have restricted you of bringing into your debate people who are outside this House because they are not in the House to defend themselves. So, let us try as much as possible not to involve outsiders in a negative way because they are not here to defend themselves. With that guidance, you can continue with your debate.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Chairperson, my lecturer rushed to raise a point of order before I could execute my line of thought.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Munir Zulu: On 21^st October, 2021, I wrote a letter that is on my phone (displaying his mobile phone) to withdraw a complaint at the Anti-Corruption Commission. So, the opinion of my lecturer who taught me law is not well centred with me.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Chairperson, I am not here to be malicious. I am –

 

Madam Chairperson: Hon. Member, however, we are not allowed to debate ourselves. So, please continue with the policy statement and the budget on the Anti-Corruption Commission so that we make progress.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I know I have been under estimated a lot in this House because people do not know what influence I posses. I must mention –

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr J. Banda clapped.

 

Madam Chairperson: I am sure that was on a lighter note. We do not want any hon. Member to be under estimated. Any hon. Member is supposed to be given that opportunity.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Chairperson, as we are preaching this song of supporting this Head, one of the Independent hon. Members of Parliament has had his wife made to serve as a Board Member at the Rural Electrification Authority (REA). That is corruption in itself.

 

Mr Musumali: How?

 

Mr Munir Zulu: To silence our voices. We are not here for that.

 

Mr Musumali: When did that happen?

 

Mr Munir Zulu: It has happened today. It is not yesterday or the other day but it has taken place today.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Sing’ombe: She is Zambian? She qualifies.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: So, can we be people that are magnanimous on what we are going to support.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Chairperson, it is my nature to be ugly with the truth and I am more comfortable that way because we will engage a lot more.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Chairperson, we are supporting people that are in a perpetual habit of harassing innocent citizens.

 

Mr Musumali: Like who?

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Chairperson, I am stand here debating and someone will say bring evidence yet I have been to a House of a Judge to remove an Ex parte Injunction on a mine. If you go to the ACC, you will note that on 20^th October this year, I wrote a letter to withdraw a letter against my complaint and then today I should support such corrupt human beings with K51 million funding to educate, disseminate and prosecute the corrupt. I will not be part and parcel of those that will rip the future of this country. If anything, what we should have been discussing today is to disband the ACC. That is what we should be discussing.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Chairperson, you cannot have an officer calling you asking you to give them K50,000 to destroy your file. The corrupt should fight corruption and we are here. Her Honour the Vice-President, whom I treat as my mother and a person that I hold in high esteem, mum, I should mention that the ACC in its current state is rotten to the core. They cannot fight corruption. Instead, we should fight those corrupt –

 

Madam Chairperson: Order, hon. Member, I think you have used a word that is unparliamentary.

 

Mr Musumali: Mom!

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Chairperson, guide me so that I can withdraw it.

 

Madam Chairperson: The word ‘rotten’. Can you withdraw it and replace it with another word.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Which word?

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Munir Zulu: They are not in good taste to fight corruption in their current state. I am even at pains Madam Chairperson, that colleagues on the right think that the ACC is doing their job. They are doing a lip service to protect their jobs and impress those on the right.

 

Mr Anakoka: Proper PF!

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Whether I am proper PF or not, a fact is a fact. I am a victim of the ACC where I have bribed them myself. So, you cannot say proper PF to me.

 

Madam Chairperson: Order, order!

 

Mr Munir Zulu remained standing.

 

Madam Chairperson: That is the problem which I mentioned. If you start discussing or debating yourselves, you are going to receive reactions …

 

Mr Kambita: Sit down.

 

Madam Chairperson: … and tempers will go up. So, let us follow the rules of the House. We are not supposed to debate ourselves. You can continue with your debate.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Chairperson, it is a pity that we want to show the people of Zambia that we are fighting corruption when all we are doing is to dramatise things. What I anticipated from the hon. Colleagues on the right was to invite me for a cup of coffee and say, “what went wrong?” Unlike them shooting down anything that is substantive.

 

Mr Anakoka: Do you take coffee?

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Sing’ombe: We will invite you for Germany coffee!

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Chairperson, it is a fact that as we have budgeted K51 million in this Yellow Book to fight corruption, the corrupt have budgeted a K100 million to protect corruption. Madam Chairperson, posterity will judge us harshly if we continue on this path.

 

The Chairperson: Order!

 

Hon. Member, you have said they have budgeted K100 to protect their corruption. Can you please explain further or it is better you withdraw that.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: I will not withdraw. I can qualify my statement.

 

The Chairperson: No, you have to withdraw.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Since it is your wish, I withdraw it.

 

The Chairperson: If you so wish, you can place it, but that was not in good state. That is why I said you have to withdraw.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: What if I am budgeting K100 million to support the corrupt?

 

Madam Chairperson, these things are happening and we cannot be here in the people’s House to support something that we know at the back of our minds, in our hearts of hearts, that the corrupt are also sponsoring investigators to enter the houses and sit without searching for anything. This is happening.

 

Mr Mwene: Do you have evidence?

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Chairperson –

 

The Chairperson: Hon. Member, I think we are losing direction. We are losing direction and I think I am just going to curtail that debate because we are not making headway.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Then we are corrupt in the House, thank you.

 

The Chairperson: No!

 

Interruptions

 

The Chairperson: Hon. Member, can you withdraw that because we are following the rules of this House.

 

Interruptions

 

The Chairperson: Hon. Members on the right, please order!

 

Mr Munir Zulu: I withdraw.

 

The Chairperson: Thank you.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Chairperson, I thank all the hon. Members that have debated. It is not easy to actually come out with the many wonderful points that have been made because they are quite a number.

 

Madam Chairperson, I think everybody who is reasonable agrees that this is an important institution. We are not debating the individuals that may be wrong or sitting in wrong offices. We have to understand that. The institution is extremely important and I want to thank somebody who praised our late founding father, Dr Kaunda, and said that these are the people that started the crusade. I

 

Madam Chairperson, it is important that we keep ourselves in check. So, for somebody to even declare in this House that he was abetting crime is wrong because if you are offered a bribe, you are catching yourself. You should have reported that to another institution. So, do not mislead the House by being emotional and bringing your own personal life in here. There are many people, including hon. Members who have debate here that people must be investigated while they are in office. There are people who have been investigated here while in office.

 

Madam Chairperson, if there is a weakness in the ACC, let us talk about those weaknesses. We should not lose focus of who we are. Even if you have been investigated, you should be able to say, “what is wrong with that?”

 

Madam Chairperson, I think that we should calm down and debate issues. I just want to say thank you so much. Somebody talked about improved conditions of service, but somebody else said corruption does not depend on what you have. That is a fact. Some rich people are extremely corrupt. They use the same riches to corrupt others. Some people who are very poor do not corrupt others. So, corruption in my language is an issue of the heart. Where I come from, we would call it sin and it is not easy to be dealt with.

 

Madam Chairperson, I appreciate the many issues that have been raised such as the need to strengthen the ACC. Indeed, hon. Members, if you are caught being corrupted by a member of our commission, that is also a crime. Just take it like that. Do not make it anything else. We must all agree as it is said here and some have called it even issues that were ruled out of order, but we are saying there is need for improvement. People have debated that the resources that go to people through corruption would go a long way in improving the livelihoods of the people of Zambia. We do agree.

 

Madam, another thing is that we are demanding, as a people, that there should be thorough investigations. I just want to comment on one thing that somebody said about fighting corruption. It should not be character assassination, but it should be based on justice, truthful and integrity. I will tell you my understanding of what justice is. Justice is ensuring that you follow up the wrong. That is justice. It is not justice to sleep wrong under the carpet.

 

Madam Chairperson, yes, because we are human, somebody can be wrong, but it is better the truth is always known and that was the second point. The truth must be known through investigations and court processes. That does not make you guilty. I think we debated the issue of everybody presumed innocent until proven guilty, but that does not say do not allow people to be taken to courts. That is what this is all about.

 

Madam, it is also about integrity. Integrity again is that of the heart and yet the heart of another is not known by the other. We will continue as the ACC to do the work according to the mandate. The weaknesses must be looked at so that we do better.

 

Madam Chairperson, I appreciate everybody who has commented one way or the other, but I am sure we have heard the weaknesses in this institution that we must work on. We have to continue to ensure that justice is followed. Justice is very important. Nothing should be taken from the rightful owner. That is an injustice and, therefore, that is the way to proceed. The New Dawn Government will continue to strengthen the institution and get rid of the bad elements, if any.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Vote 87 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 19 – (Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit – K57,355,103)

 

The Vice-President: Madam Chairperson, thank you for according me the opportunity to present the policy statement in support of the 2022 budget estimates for the Office of the Vice-President, namely Head 19, representing the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU).

 

Mandate

 

Madam, the DMMU derives its mandate from the Disaster Management Act No. 13 of 2010.

 

Performance Overview of the 2021 Budget

 

Madam Chairperson, during the 2021 Financial Year, the DMMU was allocated K70,690,294 to cater for both personal and non-personal emoluments. In line with the Disaster Management Act No. 13 of 2010 and the National Disaster Management Policy of 2015, the DMMU undertook a range of activities in disaster risk management as a proactive approach to disaster management as well as disaster and humanitarian operations management.

 

Madam Chairperson, the House may wish to note that disaster risk management programmes are aimed at enhancing people’s adaptive capacities to natural and human induced shocks. The disaster risk management programmes include:

 

1. disaster prevention and mitigation; and
2. early warning and preparedness.

 

Madam Chairperson, the Disaster and Humanitarian Operations Management Sub-programme includes:

 

1. disaster response management;
2. disaster management co-ordination; and
3. humanitarian relief services.

 

Madam Chairperson, the DMMU also carried out and benefited from management and support services to ensure efficient and effective functioning of the unit.

 

2022 Budget Estimates

 

Madam Chairperson, the House may wish to note that for the 2022 Budget, the Treasury has allocated K57,672,625 to the unit. The allocation will be used to facilitate the implementation of the following programmes:

 

1. disaster risk management;
2. disaster and humanitarian operation management; and
3. management and support services.

 

Madam Chairperson, as you may be aware, the unit deals with both natural and human induced disasters which among others include, drought, floods, epidemics, pest infestations, water scarcity, food insecurity, and road and industrial accidents.

 

Madam Chairperson, the House may also wish to note that due to the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic, the levels of vulnerability increased for most households, and adversely affected their coping capacities.

 

Madam Chairperson, to respond to common hazards and emerging ones, the unit undertakes a range of activities such as:

 

1. conducting vulnerability assessments and risk profiling;
2. preparation and formulation of contingency and preparedness plans;
3. participation in sovereign risk insurance to promote early recovery and resilience for drought affected communities;
4. conduct community based disaster risk management activities;
5. conducting early warning activities for early action to avert or minimise disaster risks; and
6. implementing response and recovery activities including rehabilitation of livelihoods.

 

Madam Chairperson, in line with the paradigm shift of being proactive as opposed to being reactive, the unit is currently revising both the Disaster Management Act No. 13 of 2010, and the National Disaster Management Policy of 2015.

 

Madam Chairperson, in view of the foregoing, it is important that adequate preparations are put in place at regional, national, provincial, district and community levels to enhance both vertical and horizontal co-ordination of disaster preparedness and response. Also note that, in order to supplement the allocation for 2022, the increase in the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), is of strategic importance so that local responses to disasters in constituencies and communities become part of the responsibilities under the district disaster satellite committees as provided for in the Disaster Management Act No. 13 of 2019. The expected community response includes, repair of damaged infrastructure as well as improved adaptive capacity and enhanced resilience to floods and droughts among others.

 

Madam Chairperson, as I conclude, let me take this opportunity to thank the hon. Members of Parliament for taking keen interest in the programmes under my office. May I also remind them that by virtue of being Members of Parliament, they are also members of the respective district disaster management Committees. With the support of the hon. Members, the unit will do its best to carry out its mandate in line with the new dawn’s vision for the country.

 

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

 

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Chairperson, in supporting the Motion, I want to add a few words.

 

Madam Chairperson, firstly, I thank Her Honour the Vice-President. She has been very good in responding to disasters. Currently, I think the biggest problem at the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), when responding to disasters, is procurement. I know and understand that the DMMU has been painted black by us the politicians because sometimes, we use it for our personal use or popularity for people to see that we are working in some areas. However, the DMMU is not performing. We need to change the way we are doing things because everyone at the DMMU is scared to perform because he/she will be labelled as a thief or accused of stealing something.

 

Madam Chairperson, in the last two months, my constituency has been hit with many disasters. Her Honour the Vice-President may recall that I went to her office to ask for money for a maternity ward because my district is the only one in the country with no maternity. She reacted within fourteen days, but the money is stuck in Chipata. It cannot be released because we were told that the procurement system does not allow us to disburse the money until we advertise, sit and do other things. Now, what is the essence of releasing the money if it takes three months to attend to a disaster? That is the question I am failing to understand.

 

Madam Chairperson, Her Honour the Vice-President may also wish to note that my constituency is the only district in Zambia without a mortuary. We have not had a mortuary for some time and we have tried to push here and there, but we have not gotten any help from anywhere.

 

Madam Chairperson, my constituency is one of the most hit when it comes to food insecurity and this is not of our making, neither are we lazy to cultivate. Naturally where I come from, we are good farmers and whether there is fertiliser or not, we cultivate. However, the biggest problem is the human-animal conflict. The animals leave a trail of disaster when they pass through our fields. The DMMU gave us 100 metric tonnes of maize to supply to Luangwa Ward, which is the most disadvantaged area in terms of food security due to animals. However, two months down the line, we have not organised a vehicle to go and pick the maize from Mkushi to the valleys of Nyimba, which is also another disaster.

 

So, we need to come up with legislation for disaster procurement. The DMMU cannot take three months to procure for a disaster because that kills the whole essence of having it. These men and women are there to help but we are hampering them. We are not supporting them because of the tag we have given them. This is killing the energy our colleagues at the DMMU have.

 

Madam Chairperson, furthermore, on the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), we need guidelines or a policy on how we will use this money. K5 million is meant for youth empowerment and there are other allocations for other activities, but there is no policy on how the CDF will be used. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning needs to come up with a policy on how we will use this money. We need to know how much money will be reserved for District Disaster Management Committees (DDMCs).

 

Madam Chairperson, there are disasters where we come from and this is not our making. We were told to keep elephants, giraffes and buffaloes, but at the end of the day, they are destroying our fields. So, there should a policy on how the money that has been allocated should be used. In the Yellow Book, nothing is indicated. It is quiet. So, who is going to use that money without a policy? No one. So, Her Honour the Vice-President and the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning should clarify that.

 

Madam Chairperson, climate change is ‘eating’ us, especially us from the valleys. Yes, our colleagues in town might not understand this but they may wish to note that 90 per cent of carbon in this country is in the valleys and the bush. As communities, we sell carbon to multinational companies, especially those from the United States of America (USA). However, we have no source of energy because we cannot cut trees. Trees are protected and I am happy because we are fighting climate change.

 

Madam Chairperson, in this case, I ask the Executive to see to it that it empowers our local people with gas cylinders so that they can start using Liquefied Petroleum Gas (LPG) because they have nowhere to go. Yes, where we live there are trees but we cannot cut them. I support that because if we continue cutting trees every day, we will end up not having any rains. We have not had rain because some areas in this country are deserts. We have turned our provinces into deserts. We are keeping the trees and the Government should empower us with LPG so that it can help us. This is a disaster to us because we cannot find firewood to use.

 

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

 

Mr E. M. Musonda (Chimbamilonga): Madam Chairperson, thank you for giving me the opportunity to make a few comments on the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) proposed budget allocation for 2022, on behalf of the people of Chimbamilonga Constituency.

 

Madam Chairperson, from the outset, I support the budget allocation for the DMMU although I wish it was at least, maintained at the level it was in 2021 instead of reducing it. I will endeavour to make three or so comments on the budget allocation for the DMMU.

 

Madam Chairperson, on page 234 of the Yellow Book, Programme 3402 – Disaster and Humanitarian Operations Management, it is very delighting that the budget has been increased from K8,938,435 in 2021 to K20,908,443 in 2022. With this 134 per cent increment, it is anticipated that there shall be equally a corresponding improvement in responding to the effects of a disaster on both people and assets once this occurs. Disasters by their nature require immediate mitigatory measures to be taken, which at times is not the case.

 

Madam Chairperson, the other point I wish to raise is the need to orient new District Commissioners (DCs) on their roles as District Disaster Management Chairpersons, and this is very critical. The immediate action that needs to be taken is to have orientation programmes for DCs on disaster management, if that has not yet been done. They need to understand that being at the district level, the need to be in forefront in moving the Government to act in the event of a disaster by virtue of them being chairpersons of district disaster management teams at that level. They need to give hope to the people in hopeless situations than throwing their hands up in the air and saying that there is no money in the Government coffers, even before involving higher authorities. When people are faced with a disaster, they look up to the Government and at the district level, the Government is visible through DCs. DCs need to be competent and knowledgeable in respect of procedures of handling disasters.

 

Madam Chairperson, Her Honour the Vice-President talked about decentralisation by way of the CDF. With this increase in the allocation on the disaster and humanitarian operations management, from K8,938,435 in 2021 to K20,908,443 in 2022, perhaps, this is one area Her Honour the Vice-President may consider to decentralise in terms of some activities that deal with humanitarian operations. This may improve the response time in the event of a disaster and equally ensure that mitigatory measures are taken almost instantaneously, rather than those at the district level telling the affected persons that they have sent a report to the Provincial Disaster Management Team and are waiting for feedback.

 

Madam Chairperson, lastly, I am very mindful that if during this rainy season, God forbid, it rains heavily in Chimbamilonga, like in previous seasons, then, the people of Kapoma, Chishi, Nkubwe, Kawombo and Mupande will be completely cut off as the road becomes virtually impassable during the rainy season. It is my hope that with an enhanced budget allocation for disaster and humanitarian operations management of K20,908,443, they will be greatly assisted in terms of relief food and other logistics in the likely event that they are cut off during the coming rainy season.

 

Madam Chairperson, finally, I once again, support the DMMU allocation for 2022, although I would have preferred that at least, it be maintained at the 2021 funding level.

 

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

 

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East) Madam Chairperson, thank you for according me the opportunity to add to the Motion on the Floor, which is the allocation to the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU).

 

Madam Chairperson, the people of Solwezi East are happy with the allocation although, at some point, I will be able to allude to the fact that it is not adequate for one or two reasons, which I am going to state. 

 

Madam Chairperson, looking at the mandate of the DMMU, which is to coordinate and monitor disaster and risk management in the country, the unit is actually very important. However, if you look at the allocation, in particular, to the Disaster and Humanitarian Operations Management (DHOM), where there is an allocation of about K20 million to 21 million from K8 million to K9 million in the previous year. There is also an increase in terms of the Humanitarian Relief Services (HRS) from K2 million to K9.4 million, which actually gives some hope for us, especially looking at natural disasters which range from tornados, fires and droughts, such as the one we are actually experiencing. The people of Solwezi East are saying that if it were possible, this allocation should have been increased; the reason being that disasters cannot be predicted to happen. We just need to be proactive and ready for any eventuality.

 

Madam Chairperson, if I remember, His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia talked about how monies or funds were being mismanaged at the DMMU by the previous regime. He cited that this Government would not tolerate the high levels of corruption and the embezzlement of funds as it were in the previous regime. He said this Government was to going systematically deal with people who would be found wanting at the DMMU.

 

Madam Chairperson, the people of Solwezi are saying that if the allocation was increased, then the disaster that we experienced a few months ago during the onset of the rains in Solwezi where a market had its roof blown off at a place called Kabisapi and people were injured and property damaged would be taken care of. We involved the provincial disaster management from Solwezi. They did their inspection, a Bill of Quantity (BOQ) was done and papers or documents were submitted to the Office of the Vice-President through the DMMU. To date, I have been trying to wait for something to be done, alas, we were told in this House that the Government did not have enough funds.

 

Madam Chairperson, in addition, there have been other disasters that have happened. At one of my schools in a place called Munjimanzovu at Mapunga in particular, the roof was blown off just like many other schools across the country because of poor workmanship. However, we were told by the hon. Minister of Education that we needed about K70 million in order to fix the roofs of the many schools that were damaged. So, the feeling of the people of Solwezi East is that for future eventualities, it will be better if we could think of having an additional allocation to the budget of the DMMU in order to mitigate the risks that we may experience.

 

Madam Chairperson, from the onset the people of Solwezi East are in support of this Motion.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Fube (Chilubi) Madam Chairperson, the people of Chilubi want to contribute to the debate on this Vote and speak on behalf of the people of Zambia in the following manner:

 

Madam Chairperson, the Disaster Management Act, No.13, 2010, defines disaster management as a means of continuous and integrated multi-sectoral and multi-discipline process of planning and implementation.

 

Madam Chairperson, this is also linked to what we are facing now, which is climate change adaptation and many measures that are supposed to be taken in line with disaster risk reduction programmes.

 

Madam Chairperson, I want to bring to your attention that the total budget for the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) has this year been reduced by 18.8 per cent, which in figures interprets to K13,335,191 meaning that last year, the budget was K70,690,294, but this year, it is K57.4 million. As they say, the devil is in the detail. I want to bring your attention to the definition that I gave at first and how disasters are supposed to be managed.

 

Madam Chairperson, Disaster Risk Management (DRM) has been allocated 36.5 per cent, then Disaster and Humanitarian Operations Management has been allocated 38.6 per cent of the total and the other figures have gone towards management. However, my main concern is between these two. When we look at DRM, that is where you find things like Early Warning and Preparedness (EWP) and many other factors fall in. This is the chimake, when I say chimake, I mean the main thing that disaster is and how disaster is supposed to be managed but, alas, what this budget has chosen is to mop the leaking tap instead of repairing the tap itself. What do I mean by that? What I mean is that when you follow the details in the budget, you will find that under Disaster Prevention and Mitigation (DPM) the allocation for last year was K53,953,818, but this year, it is at K15, 850,873.

 

Madam Chairperson, this is not a good picture because we are courting a looming disaster. Already, farmers, through the Ministry of Agriculture which is incorporated through Section 10 of the Act that I just quoted, have lost a lot of seeds, which came through the Government inputs. For some of them that planted early, some of them even got what we may refer to as late maturing seed, but it has been lost. For some, because of the fear of the rain pattern have not planted. We are not God to know when the rains will finish and so on and so forth. This means that this Vote should have been given good money.

 

Madam Chairperson, DRM in this case has its allocation reduced overall by 59.5 per cent. If I can be allowed to further demonstrate this, it means that in 2021, it was at K54.7 million and now it is at K22.1 million, which means that there is a variance of K32,609,262.

 

Madam Chairperson, this is worrisome because the pattern of disaster management has been shifted. As one of the earlier debaters said, Disaster and Humanitarian Operations Management (DHOM) has been given K20 million when it was K8 million last time, meaning that the Government is taking a reactive approach as opposed to a proactive approach which the Vice-President ably mentioned in her statement the Government wanted to take.

 

However, to me, it appears that the allocation of figures has reversed that intention of taking a proactive approach because the disaster prevention and mitigation part has been underplayed by the figures allocated, meaning, that what we are likely to do is wait for disasters to happen and then react instead of preventing them. That is what this budget means.

 

Madam Chairperson, allow me to end by saying that I am afraid that this Budget is only targeting to resettle 400 households. However, I would like to make the Government aware that we are likely to resettle more households than that. The rains that have exhibited in certain places are stormy, meaning that we are likely to have houses being broken down and many other things happening. How I wish that this was attended to because we are likely to come back to this House and say we must do some restructuring to allocate more money to a budget that was already attended to.

 

Madam, we need to factor in that disaster management addresses issues of preventing or reducing the risk of disasters; mitigating the severity or consequences of disasters; emergency preparedness and rapid and effective responses to disasters, including post disaster recovery and rehabilitation. So, whenever we are talking about allocating monies to this line, especially for disaster management, that should be borne in mind. If that is amiss, then we are shooting in the dark.

 

Madam Chairperson, Chilubi is a disaster-prone area. On behalf of Chilubi and by the powers entrusted in me and the trust that people have vested in me, I reluctantly support this programme and its allocations because at the end of the day I have a responsibility to the nation, otherwise this budget was a bit disastrous.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Chairperson, thank you very much for the opportunity to debate the Vote for the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), which is on the Floor of the House.

 

Madam Chairperson, as the name suggests, the DMMU is a unit that is responsible for managing any disaster that may happen and also make it ready for itself to mitigate any possible disaster. Therefore the extent of disasters cannot estimated. We can only anticipate that it is an event that may happen either through an act of God or other factors. Therefore, the estimates that we are debating here cannot be made in all certainty or give actual figures because we do not know what will happen in the future and can only anticipate. Therefore, I support the Budget that the hon. Minister has allocated for that unit.

 

Madam Chairperson, I noticed that this unit sits under the Office of the Vice-President. One of the former Vice-Presidents, Her Honour the Vice-President’s predecessor, once mentioned and lamented that she found that there was no job description in her office to clearly outline what was involved and, rightly so. It is a role that cuts across line ministries, and disaster can happen in any of these ministries or arms of the Government and thereby being, rightly, put under that office. However, we need to come up with a strategy of mitigating such disasters if they occur and this is what we are rightly doing. We are allocating money so that we will be able to meet such disasters.

 

Madam Chairperson, the most common of disasters have happened at primary schools and the like, but we also need to understand that some of them are of our own making. The quality of infrastructure we have put up, especially in rural areas and many other places, has ended up causing us to be where we are. Therefore, I implore my fellow hon. Members of Parliament to ensure that even as they have been empowered with the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), they must ensure that contractors put up strong structures for classroom blocks. That, in a way, will help to mitigate potential disasters which we are all crying about and forgetting that we have a role to play.

 

Madam Chairperson, there are many other issues around disasters. What has been fairly pathetic is the structure that exists. Scholars say that strategy follows structure. For any strategy that you formulate, you must have a structure that will implement it, and currently, the structure that we use is that we have a committee at the district level, another one at the provincial level and another one at the national level, which is chaired by the Office of the Vice-President. Unfortunately, there have been bottlenecks at each and every one of these levels. For communication to reach the national level so that a disaster is looked at as such and finally financed has been a challenge. I heard some of the debaters on the Floor of this House rightly state that some of the issues that they reported about are still pending even though they qualified to be disasters. So, we need to work on the structure so that there is speedy communication from where the disaster happened to where a decision will be made to support or mitigate whatever disaster took place.

 

Madam Chairperson, moving away from that, I will now talk about what happened yesteryear, which I do not envisage will happen in our tenure. The DMMU was highly politicised and that is why, sometimes, at the mention of the name, some people think it is a moribund institution that is used for by-elections through which mealie-meal is distributed to people and the like. However, it is a very important office sitting under the Office of the Vice-President to help the people who are involved in situations that are not anticipated in order to mitigate the impact such situations would have on them.

 

Madam, let us not, however, demonise this institution. The right Government, looking at priorities in the right way, will use that office to the benefit of the people. We should, therefore, restore the confidence of the public in that institution by respecting the workers that it employs and making sure that the channel of communication is enhanced to ensure that all problems are sorted out.

 

Madam Chairperson, I think about what happened yesteryear. As a result of the confusion that happened, that institution is sitting on high levels of arrears, but it might be rightly so because we are coming out of a Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) situation. Some debaters have mentioned that we should allocate a lot of money towards this. If the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning ever brings a Supplementary Budget for us to approve in this House and it came from the DMMU, I would have no hesitation to support it 100 per cent because this is not a planned event.

 

Madam, did we plan that we were going to have a third and fourth wave of COVID-19? No, we did not. Therefore, it is possible that this unit would usually feature on the list of what is brought to this House as a Supplementary Budget because its events, which are the cost drivers, do not necessarily send a warning at the time of budgeting like now. Therefore, it is right for this unit to have a structure that will make it respond to disaster effectively and efficiently than simply allocate funds to sit there and anticipate spending on whatever comes. I believe the meagre resources that have been allocated to this unit are enough to anticipate anything that could happen, but strengthening the structure that will implement our strategy should be at the core.

 

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Chairperson, I thank the hon. Members who have debated this issue because it does affect all of us. Potentially, the DMMU is in every constituency, and as you heard from the policy statement, its functions include traffic accidents among others.

 

Madam Chairperson, I just want to agree with the last debater that it is difficult to really have a figure that this is the way this will be because DMMU is vast. On a day like today, we are evacuating Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) patients and another day, it is something else. It is just so big and I think that is why, most times, we depend so much on contingency and, indeed, supplementary funds. However, if you look at the allocation, you will see that most of it is more administrative, even the response. It is not a response to really handle the whole disaster that may occur. However, we are also mindful as a unit that we should take risk management to be more important than disaster mitigation. We want to truly be proactive.

 

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning knows that this money is not enough, except he has to work within the figures that he has. Definitely, I thank him for promising that when we come to this House asking for supplementary funds, the House will support.

 

Madam Chairperson, it is unfortunate I cannot explain the issues of procurement as brought out by Mr Munir Zulu that when money is given, it sits at the province because the province cannot procure. I think those are bottlenecks that are unnecessary because if money is released, we have already given guidance under public procurement so what new thing is needed? If a maternity ward has no roof for over a year, that is no longer a disaster. Even when money is given, you are talking of procedure. I think procedure has been made very clear.

 

Madam Chairperson, like I stated in the policy statement, the issue is we are working on all the documentation; the Act that guides the way we do things. So, there is a review of the 2010 and 2015 Acts so that we can really make disasters be responded to timely.

 

Madam Chairperson, I also agree that we need to take care. I made a statement here when we were talking about the same issue of disasters that are happening. Almost every rain that has fallen this season has resulted in a disaster. That is why one hon. Member said let us not be part of creating disasters. Let us help people construct houses, for example, following the set standards because we are seeing this over and over again.

 

Madam Chairperson, yes, we know that climate change is a challenge in itself to the infrastructure and food security. We are trying, we have tried and this year, we will still try to be prepared for such issues. We are already looking at what happens if the rains do not come. We are not sitting idle as a unit. We are looking at that in consultation with all other ministries including the region. There is a regional body that looks at the implication of disasters; how we prepare for floods and drought, including the human/animal conflicts. The hon. Minister of Tourism is part of this Committee. We understand and appreciate your support, it is a huge issue that sometimes you wonder how to get around it.

 

Madam Chairperson, let me also state that politicising DMMU has created total misunderstanding. People think it is a market place where you can just go and say I want a contract for masks and this. It is very unfortunate that it has been seen that way. Rest assured this will not happen. We will do things professionally. Where there is a disaster, there will be a disaster. No longer will by-elections be disasters. That is not part of this DMMU. This is because that is the way it has been for quite some time. We will do as much as we can.

 

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

 

VOTE 19/3499 – (Management and Support Services – K14,307,434)

 

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment on page 239, under Table 5: Programme Budget Allocation by Subprogramme, Paragraph 1, by the insertion of the letter “K” immediately before the figure “14.3” million.

 

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

 

Vote 19/3499, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Mr J Chibuye: On a point of order, Madam.

 

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr J Chibuye: Madam Chairperson, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Keembe in order to sit in the manner she is seated even when you have guided to maintain social distance.

 

Laughter

 

The Chairperson: Which Standing Order are you referring to? Well, that was on a lighter note.

 

Hon. Members, I think I announced yesterday that Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) cases are actually increasing. So, could we observe social distancing, ensure hand sanitising and masking up. However, the problem which is there is social distancing. Sometimes we forget and seat next to each other for a good number of minutes. So, can we observe social distance and thank you for that, hon. Member.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Chairperson, I thank the hon. Members who have debated this issue because it does affect all of us. Potentially, the DMMU is in every constituency, and as you heard from the policy statement, its functions include traffic accidents among others.

 

Madam Chairperson, I just want to agree with the last debater that it is difficult to really have a figure that this is the way this will be because DMMU is vast. On a day like today, we are evacuating Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) patients and another day, it is something else. It is just so big and I think that is why, most times, we depend so much on contingency and, indeed, supplementary funds. However, if you look at the allocation, you will see that most of it is more administrative, even the response. It is not a response to really handle the whole disaster that may occur. However, we are also mindful as a unit that we should take risk management to be more important than disaster mitigation. We want to truly be proactive.

 

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning knows that this money is not enough, except he has to work within the figures that he has. Definitely, I thank him for promising that when we come to this House asking for supplementary funds, the House will support.

 

Madam Chairperson, it is unfortunate I cannot explain the issues of procurement as brought out by Mr Munir Zulu that when money is given, it sits at the province because the province cannot procure. I think those are bottlenecks that are unnecessary because if money is released, we have already given guidance under public procurement so what new thing is needed? If a maternity ward has no roof for over a year, that is no longer a disaster. Even when money is given, you are talking of procedure. I think procedure has been made very clear.

 

Madam Chairperson, like I stated in the policy statement, the issue is we are working on all the documentation; the Act that guides the way we do things. So, there is a review of the 2010 and 2015 Acts so that we can really make disasters be responded to timely.

 

Madam Chairperson, I also agree that we need to take care. I made a statement here when we were talking about the same issue of disasters that are happening. Almost every rain that has fallen this season has resulted in a disaster. That is why one hon. Member said let us not be part of creating disasters. Let us help people construct houses, for example, following the set standards because we are seeing this over and over again.

 

Madam Chairperson, yes, we know that climate change is a challenge in itself to the infrastructure and food security. We are trying, we have tried and this year, we will still try to be prepared for such issues. We are already looking at what happens if the rains do not come. We are not sitting idle as a unit. We are looking at that in consultation with all other ministries including the region. There is a regional body that looks at the implication of disasters; how we prepare for floods and drought, including the human/animal conflicts. The hon. Minister of Tourism is part of this Committee. We understand and appreciate your support, it is a huge issue that sometimes you wonder how to get around it.

 

Madam Chairperson, let me also state that politicising DMMU has created total misunderstanding. People think it is a market place where you can just go and say I want a contract for masks and this. It is very unfortunate that it has been seen that way. Rest assured this will not happen. We will do things professionally. Where there is a disaster, there will be a disaster. No longer will by-elections be disasters. That is not part of this DMMU. This is because that is the way it has been for quite some time. We will do as much as we can.

 

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

 

VOTE 19/3499 – (Management and Support Services – K14,307,434)

 

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment on page 239, under Table 5: Programme Budget Allocation by Subprogramme, Paragraph 1, by the insertion of the letter “K” immediately before the figure “14.3” million.

 

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

 

Vote 19/3499, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Mr J Chibuye: On a point of order, Madam.

 

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr J Chibuye: Madam Chairperson, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Keembe in order to sit in the manner she is seated even when you have guided to maintain social distance.

 

Laughter

 

The Chairperson: Which Standing Order are you referring to? Well, that was on a lighter note.

 

Hon. Members, I think I announced yesterday that Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) cases are actually increasing. So, could we observe social distancing, ensure hand sanitising and masking up. However, the problem which is there is social distancing. Sometimes we forget and seat next to each other for a good number of minutes. So, can we observe social distance and thank you for that, hon. Member.

 

VOTE 86 – (Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock – K730,448,391)

 

The Minister of Fisheries and Livestock (Mr Chikote): Madam Chairperson, it is my honour and privilege to present to this august House, the policy statement on the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for Vote 86 – Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock for the period 1^st January, 2022 to 31^st December, 2022.

 

Madam Chairperson, before I present the policy statement, let me take this opportunity to thank His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, for giving me the opportunity to preside over this important ministry. I also wish to thank the President for continuing the mandate of the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock in the New Dawn Administration.

 

Madam Chairperson, allow me now to highlight some key achievements of the ministry in 2021.

 

Fisheries Production and Productivity Improvement Programmes

 

Madam Chairperson, aquaculture fish production increased by 18.6 per cent from 38,480 metric tonnes to 45,670 metric tonnes, while capture fish production marginally increased from 91,000 metric tonnes to 94,943 metric tonnes.

 

Madam Chairperson, a total of fifteen fish hatcheries under the Aquaculture Seed Fund were established, and this investment will boost availability of fingerlings by 293 million. Construction of the aquatic animal health and food safety laboratory in Kafue is progressing very well with the physical progress at 70 per cent.

 

Livestock Production and Productivity Improvement

 

Madam Chairperson, the ministry successfully implemented the stocking and restocking programme by empowering 30,737 poor but viable households. Out of the total beneficiaries, 68 per cent were women, while 25 per cent were youths, and 7 per cent were men. Similarly, successes were made in the promotion of sustainable forage production and utilisation aimed at increasing climate change adaptive capacity of livestock farmers. Also, to address the feed challenges for ruminant animals, the ministry continued to map rangeland sites for over-sowing with adapted perennial legumes, established community rangeland management plans, and established community rangeland management committees.

 

Animal Health Services

 

Madam Chairperson, the ministry recorded the following disease control successes during the period under review:

 

1. production of vaccines like new castle, anthrax, and blackleg;
2. production of East Cost Fever (ECF) stabilet locally in order to mitigate ECF outbreaks;
3. vaccinated 488,000 cattle against foot and mouth disease in nine provinces;
4. vaccinated 560,000 cattle against Contagious Bovine Plueuropneumonia (CBPP) in Muchinga, the Northern, the North-Western and the Western provinces; and
5. conducted immunisation of 38,816 cattle against EFC, the so-called denkete, in the Central, the Copperbelt, the Eastern, Lusaka and the Southern provinces;

 

Outlook for 2022

 

Madam Chairperson, in line with the New Dawn Government’s aspiration, the United Party for National Development (UPND) manifesto, and the draft Eight National Development Plan (ENDP), the ministry will implement growth-oriented fisheries and livestock development programmes. To this end, the Government will focus on programmes that have the potential of making the sector a viable commercial undertaking.

 

Madam Chairperson, let me now come to the 2022 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for my ministry. In the 2022 budget, a total of K730.5 million has been allocated to Vote 86 – Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock as follows:

 

Fisheries Production and Productivity Improvement Programme

 

Madam Chairperson, this programme has been allocated 19 per cent of the total budget. The ministry will scale up measures aimed at reducing the fish deficit currently estimated at 75,000 metric tonnes. In this regard, the following have been prioritised:

 

1. promotion of the expansion and intensification of aquaculture across the country;
2. promotion of fingerlings production through establishment of more fish hatcheries;
3. establishment and gazetting of protected fish breeding areas;
4. operationalisation of the fisheries and aquaculture development fund;
5. enhancement of fisheries research development; and
6. completion of aquaculture parks and aquatic animal health and food safely laboratories.

 

Livestock Production and Productivity Improvement

 

Madam Chairperson, the Livestock Production and Productivity Improvement programme has been allocated 42 per cent of the total budget. The programme will facilitate increased livestock production and productivity through development and promotion of appropriate and sustainable livestock production technologies. Further, my ministry will upscale the stocking and restocking of livestock, promote pasture and fodder production amongst small scale livestock farmers countrywide, and mainstream climate change through rolling out of the early warning systems.

 

Animal Health

 

Madam Chairperson, a share of 24 per cent has been allocated to cater for the Animal Health Service Programme. The allocated funds will facilitate delivery of animal health extension services, procurement of vaccines, vaccination campaigns, disease surveillance and early warning, veterinary diagnostics and research, and tsetse control services.

 

Technical Services

 

Madam Chairperson, the Technical Services Programme has been allocated 0.5 per cent to provide technical advisory services for fisheries and livestock infrastructure development across the country. The fund will also be used on national fisheries and livestock information services and market development.

 

Management and Support Services

 

Madam Chairperson, the Management and Support Services Programme has been allocated 13 per cent to support human resource management and administration, planning, policy co-ordination, information management, procurement services, audit, financial management and revenue mobilisation. In addition, my ministry has prioritised development of the strategic plan for the period 2022 to 2026 and the second generation of the national agriculture investment plan to coincide with the launch of the ENDP.

 

Madam Chairperson, in conclusion of the policy statement for the Ministry of Livestock and Fisheries, I now appeal to hon. Members of this august House to seriously support the budget for this Vote.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Chairperson, thank you for giving the people of Chienge an opportunity to debate this very important budget line, that is, the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock.

 

Madam Chairperson, I must say that I support the budget and I expected more money to be allocated to this budget line. I was expecting the hon. Minister to talk about the fish which has depleted in our country, seeing that the livelihood of most of our people in Zambia, especially in areas like Chienge, is fishing.

 

Madam Chairperson, on 1^st December every year, the fishing ban is effected. On the other side, that is The Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), our colleagues continue fishing; it is business as usual. We have what we call Village Management Committees (VMCs). I would have loved to hear the hon. Minister ban these so-called VMCs.

 

They are such a problem to the people of Chienge because they are not gazetted.  They give the people of Chiengi a headache. Why do I say so? These are the people who collect the illegal instruments or nets which the fishermen are using and they still go ahead and demand some money amounting to about K8000 and they are give them back. Those who cannot afford that amount, their illegal nets are burnt while those who can afford are given their nets back. So, we are not making head ways in any way. When it comes to having a fish ban each year, it will be a success. This ministry should pump in lots of money so that we have proper guards to guard the waters and also have proper ways of improving fishing methods in Chiengi.

 

Madam Chairperson we are having a big challenge in Chiengi because, as I mentioned earlier, we do not have fish. It has completely depleted from our lake. However, I have been hearing that other areas are being empowered with fish fingerlings.

 

Rev. Katuta Inaudible

 

The Chairperson: We have lost the hon. Member.

 

Rev. Katuta: ...when it comes to Chiengi, it is an opportunity to appeal to the ‘New Dawn’ Government to help the fishermen of Chienge by empowering them with the fingerlings and train them on how to do cage fishing. We have not been helped in anyway. There were some loans which were given by Citizen Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) but that has just been on paper. People were told the loans were approved but they never got anything. Further, I want to see to it that this Government comes up with another method of helping all the fishermen, particularly in Chiengi, where we do not have fish any more.

 

Madam Chairperson, secondly, whenever we have the fish ban on 1^st December, every year. The previous Government did not provide an alternative of how these people would live because that is all they depend on. Today we have the ‘New Dawn’ Administration and I expected to hear, or maybe I should say I should excuse them just for the 2022 Budget. However, I want to hear more of the alternative for the fishermen of Chienge. Why I am I saying so? There is not much that is done for them. When there is a fish ban, it means that those people will have no relish for about three months. What should they feed on and where do they get the income to survive? So, there should be a plan from the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock. There are goats which have been given to the people of Chienge but it is not yielding much. So, this is the time that the Government should come in to see to it that the people of Chienge have an alternative from 1^st December until March.

 

Madam Chairperson, I would also like to see more of empowerment for the people of Chiengi, in terms of animals. I know we are learning how to keep cattle but Chienge is the best place because animals normally survive. It is a place where you cannot find disease in animals. I think it will be the best place to conduct a pilot project on cattle, sheep and other animals. So, my appeal to this Government is to see to it that in these estimates, they should consider the alternative for areas where livelihood is all about fishing.

 

Madam Chairperson, with the few words that that you have allowed the voice of Chienge to add, may this ministry work together with other department to stop what is happening in Chienge where fishermen are ill-treated by the police and the marine police. I know the law is there but it is done in a wrong way. The staff at the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock do not follow how the law is supposed to be done. As I have mentioned, others have their illegal nets confiscated while other are given back. We need this ministry to come to the aid of the people of Chienge.

 

Madam Chairperson, with these few words, I want to say thank you so much for allowing Chienge to add a voice and please we need plan B for the fishermen of Chienge.

 

I thank you.

 

Mr Malambo (Magoye): Madam Chairperson, thank you very much for this opportunity lovely given to the people of Magoye to be heard on this very important Head for the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock.

 

Madam Chairperson, the first step I want to take is to firstly appreciate the budget, as indicated. I stand to support this Vote on the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock. However, I have a few areas of concern which I want to address. The first area is on our colleagues, the extension service workers, who are give mandate to look after our animals. In the first place, these people are not available in many of the areas. In Magoye Constituency, we have a good number of dilapidated houses but the veterinary camps there need the presence of these colleagues to ensure that they go round in the community on the issues that are related to disease control.

 

Madam Chairperson, as I speak, I can see that the ministry has put a staggering K175 million towards disease control. In as much as the ministry is putting in this money, I see that there will be no vehicle or no people to go and help the farming community to ensure that they vaccinate these animals or look after these animals to an extent where we can be able to have healthy animals for the good consumptions of the people that take this kind of beef.

 

Madam Chairperson, animal disease surveillance is very important allocation of about K96 million. In the recent past we have had very contagious diseases that are transported by ourselves who are not trustable in terms of cattle rustling. You would find that somebody from Dundumwezi would get animals from there. However, because of the lack of surveillance, he would transport his animals up to somewhere around Mazabuka and slaughter them in the abattoir while transporting the disease all the way from the one side to the other.

 

Madam Chairperson, if only we could be able to enhance activities of surveillance, I can assure you that we can manage to contain these contagious diseases. As I speak, Chitongo area of Magoye Constituency already has foot and mouth disease which was not there in the recent past. However, because the animals that are traversing from other points which are infested, they have brought that kind of disease where we had almost finished.

 

Madam Chairperson, there is another outbreak of disease in the plains, in Itebe, where I have seen that many people had their animals die because of this unknown disease. It is out of the surveillance that I believe that it would enhance knowing the exact type of disease that is infesting animals in the plains. It is highly important to consider helping the extension service workers. We need to motivate these people. The first thing that we need to is –

 

Madam Chairperson: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1630 hours until 1700 hours.

 

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

 

Mr Malambo: Madam Chairperson, I thank you for allowing me to continue debating on this very important Motion which has kept most of us in this business for some time.

 

Madam, I was just emphasing on a point related to the colleagues who are working as extension service workers. Predominantly, Magoye has about eleven camps. Of the eleven camps, none of them has a house and so most of the workers live in town. The House will realise that between Mazabuka and Magoye, it is about 30 km. So, it means that these people are not available to help the community.

 

Madam Chairperson, I want to indicate to the hon. Minister that there is an outbreak of Heart Water Disease in the Kafue Plains. Unfortunately, the outbreak of the Heart Water Disease is as a result of the ticks which are barely controlled by dipping the animals. During this period of time, there has been no dip tank that was constructed in this area by the previous Government. I want to appeal to this listening Government and the New Dawn Government, under the able leadership of His Excellency and Commander-in-Chief, President Hakainde Hichilema, if it could construct dip tanks to help contain diseases in the areas. 

 

Madam Chairperson, I want to also emphasise on the points related to the availability of vaccination. Accessing the vaccinations has become a problem because their importation has been primarily been Botswana, but unfortunately, most of these vaccinations could have been developed in Zambia so that the farmers can to access them. Unfortunately, in most instances, we are unable to access the vaccinations for Contagious Bovine Pleuro-pneumonia (CBPP). Sometimes, we do not have the vaccination for the Newcastle Disease (ND) and the Black leg. So, this is my humble appeal to the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock to let the vaccinations become available.

 

Further, there is a problem in that farmers would pay for the vaccinations of the animals to the government, but unfortunately, if many of the farmers have not paid, but a few have paid, it takes time for the service worker to come and vaccinate these animals. So, it makes those that paid to be at a loss because even if they would have paid, the service was not rendered to them.

 

Madam Chairperson, I know that the New Dawn Government means well more especially with this ministry, but my humble appeal to you, hon. Minister is that I will still stand here to invite you to come to my constituency to enable you take an inventory and on-site sight to ensure that you see what is happening. We are really keeping many animals more especially in the West of Magoye Cosntituency in Mwanachingwala’s Chiefdom. Those animals can to feed this country.

 

Madam Chairperson, if we were to extend heavily and invest heavily in this sector, I can assure you that we can beat Botswana, in terms of beef production. So, I have no option, but to support this vote. It is a very important vote more especially that you have increased resources pertaining to the animal disease control.

 

Madam, I humbly want to submit and I thank you on behalf of the people of Magoye for this opportunity given to use.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

The Chairperson: Order!

 

Is Mr Chitotela rising on a point of order?

 

Hon. Government Members: He has left.

 

The Chairperson:  Otherwise, I call upon Mr Shakafuswa to debate.

 

Mr Shakafuswa (Mandevu): Madam Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to contribute to debate on Head 86 – Fisheries and Livestock, which is not controversial. I also like to thank my good brother, the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock for his elaborate policy statement.

 

Madam Chairperson, from the outset, I want to state that I support the budget Head although I have noted that instead of increasing the budgetary allocation to the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock as compared to 2021, the hon. Minister has reduced his budget by K50 million. I am worried by this decrease in the budgetary allocation because we are experiencing a drought this year. So, I would have expected that the hon. Minister provides and lobbies for more resources because our cattle and other livestock will be affected negatively as a result of climate change that we are experiencing.

 

Madam Chairperson, I have noted from the policy statement of the hon. Minister, where he has acknowledged some of the successes of the previous administration, especially in the area of fisheries and aquaculture. One of the things to note is the increase in the production capacity of aquaculture from 5,000 metric tonnes of fish in 2016 to 45,670 metric tonnes in the 2020. This was as a result of a deliberate policy to invest money in this sector in the tune of K275 million in the value chain of aquaculture in thirty-five districts of the ten provinces of Zambia.

 

Madam, I note that we are currently experiencing a deficit of 75,000 tonnes of fish. This deficit can be contained if we put more money and continue some of the programmes the PF Government had started such as the establishment of the aquaculture packs in all the ten provinces of Zambia. Further, we can improve on the deficit of fish if we can also build more hatchery infrastructure in the ten provinces of Zambia.

 

Madam Chairperson, allow me to comment on the livestock subsector which has the potential to create employment for the youths and women of Zambia. When His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, went to the United States of America (USA) sometime in October in 2019, he made a presentation at the Woodrow Wilson Centre and pledges worth US$25.8 billion were made. Out of these pledges, His Excellency promised that he would use US$8 billion for restocking and empowering our women and the youths with animals. In particular, he said that when elected in 2021, he would give all the households run by the youths and women whose animals were affected by drought in the previous years, twenty-one animals for cultivation and milk production. So, I urge the hon. Minister to remind His Excellency the President to actualise these promises he made to the Zambian people because they will be a game changer for this subsector if implemented.

 

With those few remarks, Madam Chairperson, I support this Vote.

 

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

 

Mr Kamboni (Kalomo Central): Madam Chairperson, livestock is about life –

 

Interruptions

 

The Chairperson: Please, control your gadgets. You can continue hon. Member.

 

Mr Kamboni: Madam Chairperson, livestock can change the course of the country in terms of employment and livelihood. If you have 100 animals, they can give you 100 calves per year. If you sell 100 heifers per year, you can make over a million Kwacha and you can buy any car you want. It is the simplest business plan which every person can have, and training is not very expensive. So, this is one area in which we should really invest in to change the course of the country.

 

Madam Chairperson, regarding disease control, we need to create green zones in order to control diseases 100 per cent. That way, there will not be any diseases at all and we can penetrate the European Union (EU) market. Botswana has a quota to supply beef to the EU including South Africa and Namibia. In Zambia, we have just been talking and we are failing to penetrate the EU market. If we created green zones, even the price of livestock products will go up because we will now have access to the market and the livestock industry will improve. So, we need to aim at penetrating the European market. At one time, the Government selected a few farms for disease control but this died a natural death. We should aim to have green zones in areas where there are no diseases since we cannot manage to have them in the whole country currently. We can follow the rules and we will be able to at least sell our beef to Europe.

 

Madam Chairperson, on research and science, why should we import medicine for the Foot and Mouth Disease (FMD)? Botswana and many other countries make medicine for the FMD. What is wrong with our science in this country? So, we need to aim high so that we can make medicine for the FMD. Not long ago, I cried here in Parliament because animals in my whole constituency were affected by the FMD. The Government is the only one that can buy the medicine for the FMD and even if one has money, one cannot buy the medicine. However, the Government did nothing and many animals lost weight and some died. We can actually discover the medicine for the FMD. Even the dip tanks that we buy are imported from elsewhere but we can have them made in the country. We should aim to do that because the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock is led by highly trained people. Most of them are doctors and we can do more on this.

 

Madam Chairperson, breeding centres are ‘dying’ and they need to be revamped. For example, the Kanchindu Breeding Centre in Sinazongwe where goats are kept is dilapidated and there is no grass to feed the goats. So, breeding centres should be improved because we are going to lose some breeds. The traditional breed is almost going into extinction. We only have it in the Western Province and the area along Lake Kariba in the Southern Province. We need to keep many breeds, including the traditional breed, because we need it in the country.

 

Madam Chairperson, the previous speaker talked about restocking. Restocking under the PF was disastrous. They got cows from people who knew how to keep them and took them, on political grounds, to the people who were not ready to keep them. So, when all the animals were taken there, they were either sold or died. Money was wasted on that programme. The people in the areas the chickens were taken to, were not ready to keep them. The sold the same chickens the next day. So, let us ensure that restocking is properly done to improve and add value to the country’s economy and not just do it for the sake of politics. So, money was wasted on the restocking programme. It actually reduced the population of animals. Like I said, they took animals from the people who know how to keep them, on political grounds, and gave them to those who did not know how to keep them, who sold them. If we are to undertake restocking, we need to re-observe and make sure that we do it properly.

 

Madam Chairperson, we need to expand artificial insemination centres. In the Southern Province, the only centre that carries out artificial insemination is in Mazabuka but we can have centres at least in every district ...

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kamboni: … because this would help us improve the breed and we can have more meat for the people.

 

Madam Chairperson, why has disease control become a problem? I do not understand why we are failing to have check points. In Namibia, they have had check points the past fifteen or twenty years, and they are able to control diseases. In Zambia, there are only check points for one or two weeks. In the previous Government, the police would mount roadblocks everyday but we are failing to have check points. Check points are an oasis of controlling diseases. If we put up check points in the necessary areas, we will be able to control diseases.

 

Madam Chairperson, we should reach a point where the hon. Minister will come and tell us that we have controlled diseases 100 per cent. We can do that. Botswana has done that and that is one of the prerequisite for us to sell our meat to the EU. So, we need to aim high so that we can have check points and we also need to equip the officers with the right vehicles. Their landcruisers are down. The one in Kalomo has no wheels. So, when there is an outbreak of a disease, they cannot go and implement what they learnt in school because transport is a problem. Landcruisers are too expensive to maintain and a 4x4 hilux can do the job.

 

Madam Chairperson, we also need to increase funding for the officers so that they can do their work very well. Some workers are sent to villages, and in some cases, houses have been built for them but they do not stay in the villages. They love being in town. I have received complaints in my constituency that an officer who is supposed to help the farmers lives in town instead of the village. I do not know whether in their syllabus, we should put a component of how to fit and live in villages. Peace corps who come from the United States of America (USA) and elsewhere live in villages. Why should our own people not live in villages?

 

Madam Chairperson, so far, the hon. Minister is doing very well with the fight against the FMD but we still need more vaccines. I wish him all the best.

 

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Madam Chairperson, allow me to place it on record that on behalf of the people of Kanchibiya, I support the budget for the Ministry of Livestock and Fisheries. This ministry is critical to our aspirations as a people. So, I thank my elder brother, the hon. Minister for Fisheries and Livestock, for the policy statement, and I assure him that he has our support.

 

However, Madam, allow me to go further and tell my dear brother the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock that I do not buy into the notion that there are areas in this country where people cannot keep animals. I will give a clear example of the two farming blocks in Kanchibiya Constituency, where you find Zambians from all corners of this country. Zambians from the south, west, north-west and east all converge and carry out their farming enterprise in these two farming blocks. So, the dear good hon. Minister should not buy into that notion. That is a dangerous cup to drink from.

 

Madam Chairperson, in supporting the budget for this very crucial ministry, I want to place it on record that the people of Kanchibiya are calling for an increased allocation for the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock because it is critical in turning around the fortunes of our country. We believe in this ministry and its ability to turn around our fortunes as a people.

 

Madam Chairperson, in speaking for the people of Kanchibiya, we have rivers, lakes, swamps, plains and available grazing grounds. So, in aspiring to partake, grow and contribute to the country’s agriculture sector, we need to open Kanchibiya through both local and foreign investment. The investment and agriculture sector in Kanchibiya will be driven by Zambians from all parts of this country. I, therefore, encourage the hon. Minister to visit our people.

 

Madam Chairperson, I commend the ministry and the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for increasing allocation towards disease control. This is very important and must be commended. However, allow me to pay particular attention to animal health extension services, where we have seen a marginal drop. In line with getting to where we are supposed to be as a people and what we are aspiring to do under livestock and fisheries, I expected to see an increase to animal health extension services. We were also hoping for a possible increase to the allocation for hiring or employing extension officers, especially to do with fisheries and livestock, so as to close the ratio between the farmers and extension officers.

 

Madam Chairperson, we speak of market linkages for livestock to promote enterprise development and in order to increase citizen participation in the economy. Again, we have seen that there has been a drop in the allocation towards this ministry. There is a K50 million difference between last year, 2021, and this year, 2022.

 

Madam Chairperson, I believe that even as His Excellency the President encourages Zambians to exploit and explore the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) market, livestock and fisheries becomes one of those low hanging fruits that are very strategic. You can take any form of livestock to Kasumbalesa and it is going to sell. You can take your goats, pigs, cattle or whatever it is that you can take to Kasumbalesa and other border points around the DRC and they are going to sell. My honest plea is that there is a need to increase the allocation for this very important ministry.

 

Madam Chairperson, I will not waste much of the House’s time, but I want to place it on record that we believe in this very important ministry because it is crucial to turning the fortunes of our country. In supporting this crucial ministry, there are ministries beyond partisanship. These ministries are crucial to ensure that Zambia actualises the potential that it holds in the region. We cannot be surrounded by eight neighbouring countries and still fail to tap into the market that exists.

 

Madam Chairperson, if the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning brings a supplementary budget in the course of the year, he should remember this very important ministry. It is very important in unlocking the potential that lies across this country, even in areas that historically were not into livestock and fisheries. I am talking about areas such as Kanchibiya Constituency with so many water bodies but fish has depleted in these water bodies. However, this also presents an opportunity for the Government to promote the aquaculture industry and we will move away from the politics of fish bans and our people complaining and pointing fingers at the Government. We will have a continuous availability of fish for domestic consumption and will satisfy the market as it obtains within and beyond the borders of Zambia.

 

Madam Chairperson, with those remarks, I wish to place it on record that the people of Kanchibiya support this allocation, but we call for an increment in terms of the allocation.

 

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

 

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Chairperson, I thank the Minister of Fisheries and Livestock and Member for Luampa, Hon. Makozo Chikote, for the policy statement.

 

Madam Chairperson, it gives me comfort to see that the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock has been maintained. Whenever a Government changes, some things are maintained and others are changed, but I have noticed that the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock has been maintained. In 2015, President Edgar Lungu split this ministry. It used to be a unit under the Ministry of Agriculture and it is was overlooked, but he amplified it. I am glad that His Excellency President Hakainde Hichilema has maintained this ministry.

 

Madam Chairperson, I stand here to speak because the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock is one of those ministries that has huge potential, but is under-utilised, year in and year out. If you fly around Zambia and other countries, elsewhere what you see is a desert and dry trees. Having been in politics for a while now, I have flown around many times. Here in Zambia when you fly, all you see are water bodies. If it is lakes, we have Lake Mweru, Lake Tanganyika, Lake Bangweulu, Lake Mweru Wantipa and Lake Kariba. If it is rivers, we have the Zambezi, Kafue just nearby Lusaka, Luangwa and so on and so forth. When others see that, they see money but we have under-utilised these natural resources.

 

Madam Chairperson, looking through the Budget, as my predecessors have said, we are concerned that the budget line has actually been reduced instead of being increased. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is here and he can confirm that. The budget line has reduced by 5 per cent, from K781 million to K730 million, when it should actually increase. I must say from the outset that I support this budget line, but the hon. Minister should increase it, and it is not too late before this Budget is sealed. Some of the funds being discovered that have not been spent can go to livestock.

 

Madam Chairperson, why am I belabouring that? It is because meat or nyama, as it is called by the locals, has what they call inelastic demand. Inelastic demand means no matter what, everyone wants to eat meat. No matter the Government in power, everyone wants to eat meat. No matter the month, everyone wants to eat meat, especially this month of December. Everyone wants to eat meat, be it red or white meat.

 

Madam Chairperson, if you look at the history of Zambia, you find that investors who put their money, along the way, in livestock have sustained their money. For others, who put it elsewhere, it got lost.

 

Mr Sampa looked at the clock.

 

Mr Sampa: With old age, I have to keep checking the time.

 

Madam Chairperson, with investment in livestock and fisheries, you find that most of this money is sustained over years. We have seen investment in Legana sausages, cattle and fisheries. We must encourage Zambians to invest in livestock and fisheries. One of the best companies that have come out of Zambia is Zambeef Products Plc in Chisamba Constituency where Hon. Kasune is. It has diversified, the last many years, from red to white meat. Now it even stocks and exports Vinkubala. It is even listed on the London Stock Exchange and the Nigerian Stock Exchange.

 

Madam Chairperson, everywhere in Africa, everyone wants to eat meat. I am only emphasising how, as Zambians, we have not tapped into this industry. We have just gone for maize year in year out and lost money through maize.

 

Madam Chairperson, as I windup, let me go to what is called ‘urban agriculture’. We seem to think that fisheries and livestock farming should only be done where there is massive land. In other countries, in urban areas, it is encouraged to keep animals. I tried. One mayor tried to exhibit that by keeping one Friesian cow just by his house. The whole town went wild. “Why are you keeping a cow? It smells.” However, I was trying to pick a project that was done in Kenya. One woman kept one Friesian cow and was able to able to produce enough milk to sell to the next super market and make money.

 

Madam Chairperson, urban agriculture is the one I want to pursue in my constituency, Matero, using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). We are grateful for the K25 million. There is no land to keep livestock, but watch how we will do it. We will process red meat, white meat and fish, as it were.

 

Madam Chairperson, the other last point, which is underutilised and Hon. Chanda spoke about it, is export. All our neighbours do not have what we have. So, we need to see if we can export to the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). In Kasumbalesa, the market is huge. In Namibia, they have a desert, so the market is huge. We need the Government to support and maybe provide refrigerated trucks to ensure that communal production is exported.

 

Madam Chairperson, last, but not the least, also let me say that gone are the days when prawns and other sea foods like crayfish were exotic to Zambia. Believe it or not, I just discovered now that the Kafue River has so much crayfish. Crayfish is like prawns. My son corrected me that it is not clay, but crayfish, with an ‘r’ for some reason. With that fish, we can amplify fishing farming and go to crayfish farming.

 

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Sampa: We will do it in Matero, and I am told one does not need so much land. My swimming pool now is the crayfish farm. Every day, I cook crayfish for my children.

 

Madam Chairperson, I am bringing it out to encourage everyone to go crayfish and fish farming. I am told crayfish soup is better than goat soup. So, we want Matero to be a hub of crayfish. That said, I wish the hon. Minister, Chikote Makozo, well, but he should lobby for some more funds from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to amplify this land because it is the future of Zambia.

 

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

 

The Chairperson: Just to balance up the debate, we shall have Mr Simuzingili as the last debater.

 

Mr Simuzingili (Gwembe): Madam Chairperson, thank you for this opportunity you have allowed for the people of Gwembe to have a voice on this Budget. From the outset, I want to indicate that this is one ministry which is a game changer in this country. This is one ministry which will change the economy of Zambia. In terms of fish, there is scarcity of fish in Zambia; there is scarcity of fish in the sub-region; and there is scarcity of fish world-over.

 

Madam Chairperson, I am so excited about the hon. Minister’s emphasis on aquaculture, a new phenomenal in this country, because there is plenty of water. Land at times is scarce, but water is plenty. However, the situation we have in this country is that fish has depleted. Go to Lake Mweru, Lake Bangweulu and Lake Kariba and there is no fish because it is depleted. Now, what have caused this depletion are the poor fishing methods. If we go across, in Zimbabwe, there is plenty of fish. That is why my people tend to go across, and the consequences are really bad because they are not treated well when they go there to steal. Why do they go there to steal? It is because we do not have fish.

 

However, we have an opportunity now that the hon. Minister is promoting aquaculture. Like I said, we have plenty of water in Lake Bangweulu, Lake Mweru and Lake Kariba. So, what we need to promote is aquaculture and I am saying aquaculture is the main stream that will change our economy because waters will ever be plenty. It is exciting that the hon. Minister has indicated that he wants to increase fingerlings, which is the major ingredient in fish farming and in most cases, for instance in Gwembe, people have to go to Chirundu and Lusaka to get fingerlings. With the hon. Minister’s deliberate policy to have fingerlings in Gwembe, it will make it easier for our farmers acquire them.

 

Madam Chairperson, I am, however, a bit sad on the reduction of the amounts given to the Aquaculture Enterprise Development Project. Last year, it was allocated K367 million and this year, K102 million. Now this reduction means that the loans and grants that are given to farmers for cages or to actually do fish farming will be reduced. However, I am aware that the resource envelope is constrained. Given an opportunity, and with a listening hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, the hon. Minister of fisheries and livestock should kindly lobby because in fish farming is where we will have many of our farmers participating.

 

Madam Chairperson, on animal health, extension services are very critical because these are what farmers work with to ensure that diseases are eradicated. How do we eradicate disease in the absence of extension officers? There should be a deliberate policy to decentralise. The New Dawn Government is talking about decentralisation so that we get services as close to the people as possible, and in the absence of these services, I am afraid our animals will continue dying from various diseases. Therefore, I appeal to the hon. Minister to increase extension services so that our people can benefit. In the absence of that, how do we prevent diseases? It will be very difficult.

 

Madam Chairperson, let us also look at the curriculum. Is the curriculum those veterinary services providers or those who are offering those courses using still relevant? You can teach people an irrelevant curriculum where they are not able to produce results when they go into industry. Therefore, there is an urgent need for us to look at the curriculum for extension services providers. In order for them to make their services relevant, they must know what happens in the industry. How do they know what happens in the industry? It is by ensuring that the curriculum answers to the needs of the industry, which in this case are the needs of farmers, and diseases that are common in those areas. Most of our curricula, I can confirm coming from that background, are archaic. They were made a long time ago. They are no longer relevant to the needs of our industry.

 

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Chairperson, let me say that I really appreciate all the hon. Members who have debated for supporting this vote. From their debates, they have really contributed positively.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chikote: As a ministry, some of the concerns we have taken note of. Now, there are a few things that I need to respond to such as the Village Management Committees in Chienge doing activities that are not backed by the law. I want to assure the good people of Chienge that as hon. Minister, I have taken note, and also promise that the right things are going to be done by appointing a Fisheries Management Committee which is going to address the issue of the Village Management Committees. These are the people who are going to help the Government on issues of fisheries in that area. Across the country, we are going to put up, in all the water bodies, these Fisheries Management Committees which are going to help our communities in managing our fish.

 

Madam Chairperson, I want to assure hon. Members that His Excellency the President, who is at the helm of this country, understands this sector ...

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chikote: …and most of these concerns that have been highlighted are going to be addressed. Aquaculture is one of the activities that the ministry is going to address. Fingerlings production is an aspect we are going to address. This is just the beginning. People should watch the space because we have a person who understands this sector.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chikote: For sure, this sector will change this country. People should just watch what we are going to do in this sector. As hon. Members are aware, we have an hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning who understands this sector as well. I believe that this was just the beginning of his support to this ministry and, going forward, people will see how much is going to be allocated to some of these areas hon. Members highlighted.

 

Madam Chairperson, on the issue of artificial insemination, hon. Colleagues, this New Dawn Government has decided to procure a liquid nitrogen plant which is going to help us to manage artificial insemination. These are the programmes we are trying to put up, as the New Dawn Government, to enhance this sector and to make sure that this sector starts contributing to the gross domestic product (GDP) of this country positively like the mining sector.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Chairperson, I can also rest assure my hon. Colleagues that stocking and restocking of cattle will be done accordingly. We will firstly try to address capacity building for our people and, thereafter, we will distribute across the country. Disbursement will be done across the country. We will not be selective like the previous regime was. For us, it will be for all Zambians. As long as one is Zambian, we will make sure that he/she is empowered. Going forward, hon. Members should trust that this New Dawn Government is going to attend to them.

 

Madam Chairperson, on extension services, I am busy trying to liaise with our colleagues at the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. The matter will be addressed. Extension services in all our camps will be addressed because we know that that is very important if we are to see this sector improve. So, that is being addressed.

 

Madam Chairperson, transport issues will be addressed. This is just our foundation as the New Dawn Government. This sector will not be like the way it used to be in the past.

 

Madam Chairperson, I thank hon. Members for the support that I have received from them.

 

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear.

 

Vote 86 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

(Debate adjourned)

_______

 

HOUSE RESUMED

 

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

(Progress reported)

________

 

MOTION

 

ADJOURNMENT

 

The Government Chief Whip and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mulusa): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

 

Question put and agreed to.

 

____________

 

The House adjourned at 1750 hours until 0900 hours on Thursday, 16^th December, 2021.