Friday, 1^st April, 2022

 

The House met at 0900 hours

 

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

 

_______

 

MOTION

 

SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER 27

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that Standing Order 27 of the National Assembly Standing Orders, 2021 be suspended to enable the House to complete all Business on the Order Paper, and all matters arising there from and that, on such completion, the House do adjourn sine die.

 

Madam Speaker, Standing Order 27 of the National Assembly Standing Orders, 2021, provides for the procedure for automatic adjournment. In order to ensure that all Business on the Order Paper for today, Friday, 1^st April, 2022, is concluded before the House adjourns sine die, it is important to suspend the Standing Order so that the House has ample time.

 

Madam Speaker, let me now give a synopsis of the Business the House has considered thus far. As of today, the House has sat for a total of twenty-six days, from 15^th February, 2022, when it resumed sitting. During this period, the House has considered approximately 205 Questions for Oral and Written Answer and five Motions to adopt parliamentary committee reports. Additionally, the House debated the Motion of Thanks to His Excellency the President’s Special Address on the Progress Made in the Application of National Values and Principles.

 

Further, Madam, at the close of business today, the House would have passed four Bills while seventeen ministerial statements, explaining and clarifying the Government’s policies on various issues, have also been presented to the House. Furthermore, twenty-two annual reports from government and quasi-government departments have been tabled.

 

Madam Speaker, it is clear from the above statistics that although the House sat for a relatively short period, the volume of business transacted is large. That can only be attributed to the commitment and hard work of all hon. Members of this august House.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: I, therefore, wish to commend all hon. Members for the job well done.

 

Madam Speaker, as we take this break, I wish to urge all hon. Members to take time and visit their constituencies and assess the situation on the ground with regard to the food security and damaged infrastructure as a result of natural disasters. Affected areas should be brought to the attention of the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), which falls under my office, for appropriate assistance.

 

Having said that, allow me to thank you, Madam First Deputy Speaker and Mr Second Deputy Speaker for the able manner in which you presided over the Business of the House.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: I also wish to extend my sincere gratitude to the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff, the Office of the Vice-President, Parliamentary Business Division and officers from various government ministries and departments for the services rendered to ensure the meeting was a success. I wish all hon. Members and, indeed, the whole country a Happy Easter.

 

Madam Speaker, this is a procedural Motion and I urge all hon. Members to support it.

 

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I have seen that there is a long list here of people indicating to debate, but this is a procedural Motion just requesting to adjust time. So, I do not see any need for having so many hon. Members of Parliament indicating to speak. Usually the opportunity is given to the Leader of the Opposition. Who is representing the Leader of the Opposition?

 

Laughter

 

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Speaker, since he is not here, the seat has to be filled. I thank Her Honour the Vice-President. Indeed, this Motion is noncontroversial. From the outset, let me say that we, on this side, support this Motion. I also want to agree with her that, indeed, during this Session, we saw the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) come to the aid of all those hon. Members of Parliament who had calamities in their areas and the unit was non-selective. That is the way it should be.

 

However, Madam Speaker, I also want Her Honour the Vice-President to take note that this Session happened to have been, in the history of Zambia, the most acrimonious.

 

Hon. Government Members: How?

 

Mr Sampa: For the first time, we saw thirty hon. Members of Parliament being suspended.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Sampa: For the first time, again, we saw five hon. Members of Parliament, whose seats were nullified, chased out of the House despite an appeal, creating a tag-of-war between this House and the Judiciary. It was all during this Session, and facts are facts. We are just looking at what transpired in this Session.

 

Madam Speaker, secondly is that this was a legislative session. The paramount or main reason we are here is to make laws that are supposed to benefit the people of Zambia and reflect what the Government of the day promised. We translate those promises into laws to help our people. However, it was somewhat disappointing to see that those on your right only brought a meagre number of Bills of less than ten.

 

Mr Munsanje: How many do you want?

 

Mr Sampa: Even fifty Bills should have been there to help our people out there. What we saw on the right was that most hon. Ministers, instead of bringing Bills, spent time politicking. They spent time as if they were campaigning, I do not know what for. They were still campaigning for the 2021 and 2026 elections instead of bringing Bills that should benefit the people of Zambia. I am reminded of a certain hon. Minister of Justice in the previous Government, Hon. Given Lubinda. He was not a lawyer, but he brought many Bills before the House. We would have seen many Bills in this meeting, even thirty.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, I, therefore, advise the hon. Colleagues on your right that when such a meeting comes up again, they should bring Bills so that we make laws. We need to repeal laws and make new ones that will benefit our people out there.

 

Madam Speaker, my last point, in the interest of time, is that when we adjourn, we all go back to our constituencies. The expectation out there is huge. The pronouncement of the K25.7 million for the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) was good, but so far, it has just been verbal. It was only yesterday that we saw money for the first quarter being released.

 

Madam Speaker, the reality out there is that when all our people in our constituencies go to the ministries, they are being told to go to their hon. Member of Parliament. Even ba youth are being told to get empowerment from their hon. Member of Parliament. On Youth Day, some of us were almost killed and people were shouting, “Give us money! Give us money!”

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, it is like you are moving away from the Motion.

 

Mr Sampa: The Motion is talking about us adjourning. So, our roles continue from this House as we go to our offices and I am stating what we will find there.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Sampa: Finally, I can guarantee that when we go for this break, we will come back here in this House and no single ngwee of that CDF would have been spent on our people because the system is so bureaucratic.

 

Eng. Milupi: You left it that way.

 

Mr Sampa: Yes, we left it that way. The Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) and even the United National Independence Party (UNIP) left it like that. We are not in campaigns. Mwali wina kale. So, we are talking about how things are and how we can help our people.

 

Madam Speaker, the intention is there and the money has been allocated, but the systems are still clogged. It is the same in the councils and ministries. We will be back here and none of these hon. Members of Parliament would have spent a single ngwee.

 

Mr Nkandu: Even from this side?

 

Mr Sampa: Even from yourselves, Ba Elvis, you will not spend that CDF that has been allocated because the system is clogged. So, we need to oil the system of red tape at the councils and in the government systems, away from elected officials, so that we materialise what this Government wants to do for the people of Zambia.

 

Madam Speaker, once again, I support this Motion and I thank you.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: That was in place of the Acting Leader of the Opposition.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, first and foremost, I would like to thank all hon. Members for the support to this Motion, which is noncontroversial. However, I will be failing if I do not speak to some of the concerns that the hon. Member has raised because silence is golden. Things may go as if they were true. So, I am compelled to respond to some of them.

 

Madam Speaker, I appreciate his comment on the issue of the DMMU having been impartial in its performance. This is Government. We are beyond a political party and, therefore, every Zambian anywhere will be attended to; whether they chose to be represented by an independent or, indeed, a member of another political party. This is what we stand for as the United Party for National Development (UPND). We are here to develop the nation. So, I thank the hon. Member for noticing that.

 

Madam Speaker, on the issue of acrimony in the House, I think it depends on which lenses the hon. Member wore. This House has run very smoothly during this meeting.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mung’andu: Question!

 

The Vice-President: If the suspension of thirty hon. Members of the Patriotic Front (PF) is considered acrimonious, then we have to say, “Was it dead?” This is not unprecedented. There are precedents in every decision that a Chair, like the Speaker, makes. Even in the courts of law, there are precedents that are followed. Forty-eight hon. Members were suspended from this House.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: When you are deciding, I am sure the Acting Leader of the Opposition and the acting – who is the acting whip here? It is you (pointing at Amb. Kalimi)?

 

Amb. Kalimi: Yes

 

The Vice-President: Yes, Sir.

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: If it is you –

 

Amb. Kalimi: You are a pastor.

 

The Vice-President: I am a Reverend, actually.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

No need to exchange words with the Vice-President. Please, continue.

 

The Vice-President: Truth be told, that is what pastors stand for.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Whether it is in the courts of law, I can tell you this because I have studied law, is that precedents make law. So, that is a law set. That is why we should respect this Chair. When I say this Chair, I mean the Speaker’s Chair so that it makes the right decisions because wrong precedents can be set. So, that was not unprecedented. It was precedented. Forty-eight hon. Members were suspended for a similar issue. How do you depart from your own decision?

 

Oh, I am being timed, I am sorry. I did not know I was being timed.

 

Madam Speaker, on the issue of the number of Bills, yes, they were few, but our number one purpose here, other than oversight and others, is to legislate. It is not limited to one and we have to synchronise everything we are doing with the law. So, we will continue to study and more Bills will come. The law must only be mended if there is relevance in the amendment. It is not just to amend anything.

 

Madam Speaker, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is being released quarterly as planned. Therefore, our hon. Colleagues, the hon. Members of Parliament, and the people out there should know that the CDF has been released, according to plan. By the time we come back, let us just hope that the last observation will not come true because we expect everybody in the councils to ensure that this money is used properly, according to the purpose.

 

Madam Speaker, hon. Members of Parliament are not 100 per cent out of the guidelines. They are there because they are the leaders. Therefore, they should go and take the good news that there is a working Government; the CDF is being released; the DMMU is working accordingly; and free education is being implemented. We are working on ensuring –

 

Interruptions

 

The Vice-President: This is truth. You do not fight truth. This is a working Government and it is not selective. It is for all Zambians. My advice to my hon. Colleagues is that let us work for Zambians wherever they are.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!

 

Question put and agreed to.

 

_______

 

THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

 

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government made many promises to the people of Zambia. The people of Zambia listened and in August 2021 gave it a massive vote. One of the major promises was to better their lives.

 

Madam Speaker, yesterday, fuel price was increased by a huge 20% and this happened on a day that we were praising this Government for giving us the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). We became praise singers in here yesterday.

 

Madam Speaker, no sooner had we finished praising this Government than it increased the fuel price by 20%. This is at a time when South Africa and Rwanda reduced fuel prices. Is this not the time to deliver that promise of making the lives of the Zambian people better? Increasing the price of fuel will increase bus fares and food prices, and the people the Government promised to make their lives better will have difficult lives. I seek the Vice-Presidents response.

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Matero who is wondering whether our promises were genuine. The promises were extremely genuine and we will strive to make the lives of Zambians better. The price of fuel is not affecting only us, and I hope that the hon. Member is giving the statistics as a true record. I do not have those statistics of other countries reducing the cost of fuel. The cost of fuel is increasing all over the place. I do not know the mechanisms those may have used.

 

Madam Speaker, generally, an external factor has affected us. Life is not the way it was in August last year because had it been, then we would say, “Why are we increasing?” However, I think that all of us know that the war that is going on now has an effect on the cost of fuel. Indeed, we will continue to monitor, as the Government and together as Zambians, how we move on the path of ensuring sustainability in terms of the cost of fuel. Yes, it increased yesterday, but for us, it is as a result of external factors upon which we have no control.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Just to guide, please, let us not debate our questions so that we allow as many hon. Members of Parliament as possible to ask.

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, clearly, before your party formed Government, His Excellency Mr Hakainde Hichilema showed meticulous, methodical and very important calculations on how he was going to reduce the price of fuel. Now that your Government has kept on increasing the pump price of fuel leading to the cost of goods and services increasing, is it considering increasing salaries for all civil servants and constitutional office holders? This is the second time the Government is increasing the price of fuel.

 

Hon. Government Member: Question!

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, they found the pump price of fuel at K15. Now, it will be at K26. I can assure Her Honour the Vice-President that from the look of things, it is likely to hit K30 K40 or even K50 before the end of the year.

 

Hon. Government Member: Question!

 

Mr Mung’andu: This erodes the disposable income of civil servants. Is the Government considering increasing salaries for all civil servants and constitutional office holders so that they are cushioned against this increase of fuel prices?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question of concern for the people of Zambia.

 

Madam Speaker, it is, generally, in the interpretation of facts surrounding us. Like I said in response to the earlier question, the environment is not the same. I may not be very good with figures like my President whom he referred to, but I think that at the time we came into office, fuel must have been US$70 per barrel. Today, it is about US$150 plus per barrel. How does anyone expect a non oil producing country like ours to react to that? Let us think together as leaders and not start trying to incite very well meaning civil servants of this country, who actually help to make policies, that they need salary increment. That is not the way things move. We govern by the rule of law and many civil servants, if not all, are unionised. They have negotiated for this year and the Government has responded well. ]

 

Madam Speaker, therefore, for the hon. Member to start saying, “Are you going to give them?” and praying even in his speech, because what you say is what you get, that fuel should go up to K50 by the end of this year, is sad. We are praying it will not. There are efforts, even internationally, to try to cushion, when we are following the happenings, the cost of fuel. We, as I said earlier, will continue to monitor. We will not have our people die because of the cost of living; we are monitoring and following everything every step of the way. So, on the fuel issue, yes, the price of fuel will go up or has gone up and we pray it can come down. This Government is monitoring the situation and the hon. Member should continue monitoring also and not imagine that it will go up to K50. These are external issues and we will continue to cushion our people.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr P. Phiri (Mukaika): Madam Speaker, my question concerns the road in Katete, the Chanida/Katete Road. The road is very bad, and yet, even the fuel that we are talking about comes through this same one. The previous Government engaged a contractor to work on it, but the contractor is just sitting without doing anything because the Government cannot pay him. When is this Government going to pay him so that the Chanida/Katete Road is worked on? People have suffered enough.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that very important question about the roads in Mkaika, or let us just say the Great East Road.

 

Madam Speaker, I remember the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development responding to the issue of the Great East Road and some of the very bad patches on it. He said, as I now say, that the Government is making a consideration because this is a very active and economic road. There are other economic roads, but we are talking about the Great East Road. It will be considered for a public-private partnership (PPP); that is number one.

 

Madam Speaker, if my recollection is right, he also said that there are very bad patches on the road that he wants to work on them as a temporal measure. So, those bad and dangerous patches will be looked at.

 

Madam Speaker, we are aware of the situation, and it is sad to pay a contractor – I think for now, I may not have the answers. For example, is it because of payment? We are aware in this House that our colleagues from the other side have been telling us that we have been giving the same answers and that we have been failing.

 

Madam Speaker, some of the projects stalled as early as 2013 because of a lack of resources. We have come in and we want to create the resources. Only until then will we go back to those projects. I may not give a very correct answer, if I start trying, on the non-payment of the contractor; why he was not paid. It will mean us going back to read about what happened. Was it a lack of resources or a lack of performance? If the road is still bad, why would we want to pay him? We have to find that out, but I do not have the answers to that as I stand here.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mrs Chonya (Kafue): Madam Speaker, I just want to give a compliment to Her Honour the Vice-President; she is looking great in red.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

 

Mrs Chonya: Madam Speaker, as we go home, ...

 

Mr Mung’andu: On a serious point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Mrs Chonya: ... amongst the stakeholders likely to engage me are the former workers of the Kafue Textiles of Zambia whose matter has been under consideration by her Honour the Vice-President’s able office. I just want to find out how far she has gone in looking at their case and what message she has to give them comfort, from a caring Government.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the compliment. At least, there is something to thank me for.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Hon. Member: It is the colour!

 

The Vice-President: It is the colour, yes. It is very nice. You see my son also here (pointing at Hon. Kangombe who was wearing a red jacket).

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Hon. Government Member: Eh ma VP aya.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the issue of the former workers of the Kafue Textiles of Zambia is a little complicated to explain to this House because it was an issue that was in court. The issue of lawyers not doing what they promised goes beyond the Government. It is a very complicated matter and I am not able to give the whole story on the Floor of the House.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member may continue to engage my office, but it has been very difficult from the legal point because they went to court. The people within the group decided to split. Some went to one lawyer and others went to another. Some were paid while others were not. Did that lawyer lose? It becomes difficult for the Government to harmonise, but maybe we need to continue to engage.

 

Madam Speaker, as at now, I really do not have any positive answer to give to the former workers of the Kafue Textiles of Zambia. If there is a need to engage their lawyer who they allege was given some money, but stopped representing them without explanation, then that is not for the Government to deal with. I think that is what I can say for now.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Amb. Kalimi (Malole): Madam Speaker, I quote what the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, said at one time:

 

“The Patriotic Front (PF) Government is broke and thus they will tax us all to death. For fuel, I told them last time, that they can sell this fuel for less than K12.00 a litre simply by adjusting the input cost elements. They did not listen. They still maintained the excise duty and the SRF. The contribution of excise duty to the final price (K15.98) previously was at K1.93. They have increased the pump price by K1.64. Just suspending excise duty on petrol would have reduced the pump price to K15.37 if they cannot reduce further”

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, can you, please, go straight to the question.

 

Amb. Kalimi: Madam Speaker, now that they have faced reality, I hope the price will not increase in order to reduce, as Her Honour the Vice-President said. So, it has increased in order to reduce. Rwanda has reduced the price of fuel. Twalemweba. We were telling you, but ta mwale umfwa

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, can you please –

 

Amb. Kalimi: On interpretation?

 

It is a build-up, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Go straight to the question.

 

Amb. Kalimi: Since the price of copper is doing fine, at its peak, and they gave those foreigners a very nice pay, are they considering giving them Windfall Tax so that, at least, its benefits could now go to the fuel industry?

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, when we are discussing matters in this House as hon. Members, it is important to be factual; analytical; and to make comparisons. Zambia is not an island. We have to look at the environment; and the global issues and say, surely, should we remain? I am sure the President said what he said at that moment because there were too many things that made the price of fuel increase. Does the hon. Member know that right now, if he talked to oil marketing companies, they would tell him that there is no tax? We are not taxing them.

 

So, what is pushing the cost of oil, hon. Minister? I have already explained. It is –

 

Hon. Government Member: He is not a Minister.

 

The Vice-President: Oh, he is not an hon. Minister. Sorry, the hon. Member.

 

So, we have to tell people. We are leaders. Whether we are on the right side or not, we must tell the truth all the time. What is pushing up the price of fuel now? It is not Zambia. It is ...

 

Amb. Kalimi interjected.

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: ... worldwide. I do not want it to sound like the other ‘global’. This is a real issue.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Global!

 

The Vice-President: For example, what is a Pound to a Kwacha today? That is what we look at when we buy. Those who buy fuel buy it in Dollar. They do not buy it in kwacha, okay? I want the hon. Member to be serious. When we talked about those things, through my President, what was the cost of fuel, for example, in England? Today, the cost of fuel in England is £1.7 per litre.

 

Amb. Kalimi: In kwacha?

 

The Vice-President: Let him tell me. We are buying in dollars. Where they even produce oil, in Nigeria, they are buying at US$1.7 per litre.

 

Hon. PF Members: There is corruption!

 

The Vice-President: In the United States of America, they are releasing even more reserves. The fuel price has gone up to US$1.75. I hope I am saying something here.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Amb. Kalimi: It is global!

 

The Vice-President: Not that ‘global’ of the imagination. I am giving hon. Members figures. We buy our fuel in dollars. So, does one expect that a person who goes to buy from a wholesaler to come and sell for less? Even with the removal of tax, they are still buying it extremely expensively. We are affected and that is why we should pray against the war. There was no war during their time. They just did not know how to calculate Dollar to Kwacha.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: When we said that, we said the cost of fuel from where we bought was cheap; so why was it expensive here? That was the question.

 

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

 

The Vice-President: Now, we are saying that it is expensive where we buy. Colleagues, let us not mislead people for political expediency.

 

This is the truth and we are praying the war ends. The issue of fuel will be resolved at source and here. We will always take care of our people and we are very sincere; no making money out of a system that we are leading. We are straight; no corruption.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Madam Speaker, is the New Dawn Government fixing it? Free education; Constituency Development Fund (CDF); social cash transfer now at K400 and K800; ...

 

Interjection

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Members, let not all of us be presiding officers.

 

Mr Mutelo: ... and retirees paid. Is that not fixing it, as the President promised?

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Ema question aya!

 

Laughter

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Meaning?

 

The Vice-President:  Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Mitete for that very important observation. It may sound funny or like something just to derail the discussion, but that is the reality. I thank the hon. Member for the reminder. As we go out of here, this is the message to carry to the Zambian people.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: These things have been done from the time hon. Members left their constituencies. So, they have something to take home, including the hon. Member for Parliament for Chama North. This is something to take to the people of Chama and tell them that the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is being released quarterly as the Government promised.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Hon. Members should go and ask them: “How many of you paid the Parent Teacher Association (PTA) fees?” If they say no one, then the hon. Member should say, “Free education!” Again, “Who is in a boarding school here? Did you pay? This Government paid. That is a working Government; a caring Government.”

 

Madam Speaker, those people who failed to go to school because of fees have re-entered school as we talk. That is love for the nation. Hon. Members should go and tell them that the social cash transfer has not just been increased, but has been streamlined.

 

Madam Speaker, our hon. Colleagues were paying out according to political affiliation. All of us saw it. That is the reality. An old woman got nothing while a younger one got something. What is that? This time, it is going to almost all the eligible recipients and it will continue to grow. It has grown to K400. Those are stories that hon. Members should go and share. This is the good news that they should go and share in their constituencies. They should even remind them that in a long time, retirees had not been paid in this country and this Government, the New Dawn, has paid retirees. Surely, Madam Speaker, uushitasha mwana wa ndoshi.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Meaning what, Your Honour?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I am sorry, I think the hon. Member for Chama can help me interpret this one.

 

Laughter

 

Hon. Member: Or Lumezi!

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I can only translate in my vernacular because he has failed. If you are ungrateful, you can only be a child of a witch.

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: I can see some face, I will not name.

 

Hon. Member: Yes!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, these are some of the things that have been done even though we found the economy really biting. There was no money in the Treasury and yet, we did these things. Hon. Colleagues think it is magic. No, it is that calculation they saw that they referred to from there and the good will of the global community. This is what has happened. We have done these things. These are unprecedented. Free education ended with some of you. Some of us enjoyed it, but many of our people have not been able to complete their education because of fees.

 

Madam Speaker, we are even paying for some of the youth at tertiary. This is a Government that is working. We cannot clean up everything at the same time, but progressively, the hon. Members will see. I know the hon. Member for Matero is listening carefully because he does believe that these things have happened despite difficulties that came with the floods. We have also tried to look after the victims. There are moments people must say well-done. Can they say well-done to us?

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, the energy sector is key to the economic development of any country because it drives the wheels of production.

 

Madam Speaker, with what was announced yesterday, one does not need to be a rocket scientist to tell that the continued hike in the price of crude oil or fuel is going to affect job creation and also, poverty eradication will remain a pipe-dream.

 

Madam Speaker, it is clear that the New Dawn Government does not want to introduce subsidies when all countries in the world have subsidies including oil exporting countries. Angola spends about UD$3.5 billion, Nigeria spends more than US$20 billion and Saudi Arabia sends more than US$ 45 billion. Zambia’s per capita income cannot be compared to those countries because their per capita income is very high.

 

Madam Speaker, does the Government have short or medium term plans to build fuel reserves so that even when there is a crisis like the one happening in Ukraine and Russia, we have a fall back whereby the price of fuel is not going to be affected? Does the Government have a plan to ensure that in the event of such a crisis, our people are going to access cheaper fuel?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, yes, the Government has that plan. That is why, today, the hon. Member will see that fuel storage depots are already constructed and we try to use those as a means of short term arrangement.

 

Madam Speaker, regarding long term, indeed, there are plans. However, you do not run to the long term. You first look at the situation. I think I have tried to respond to that. However, firstly, on the issue of subsidies, when we were removing subsidies, we made it very clear as to the reason for their removal. This is because subsidies may not have translated into benefit for individual Zambian households. The things I have been explaining to my hon. Colleagues did not fall from heaven. They came from some of the savings that have been made from the withdrawal of subsidies. So, it is a matter of priority. Is it ok for the hon. Member to drive a very high consumption vehicle at the expense of the neighbour whose child wants to go to school?

 

So, we have done some bit of prioritising in the energy sector, particularly the fuel sector. However, in the energy sector, generally, we are still saying investment goes on because energy, like he said, is very important, but is not always about fuel. There are other sectors of energy that we are trying to develop.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, the Copperbelt Province has the Black Mountain. Other provinces have other avenues from which citizens are now benefiting. I was elated by the statement which was presented on the Floor of this House by the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development that citizens would now start benefiting from that resource.

 

Madam Speaker, in the North-Western Province and the Western Province, our livelihoods are from woods in those areas. Most of our people started dealing in timber and it became almost the ‘black mountain’ for those places. Unfortunately, when we took over power, we suspended the export licences for timber. This action has disadvantaged our people, especially in the North-Western Province and the Western Province where they had this livelihood which was upping their standard of living.

 

Madam Speaker, I am aware that there are initiatives to lift that suspension –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, it is like you are debating now. What is your question?

 

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for your guidance.

 

Madam Speaker, I am aware that there are initiatives trying to lift the suspension. The people of the North-Western Province, the Western Province and many other parts of the country are asking questions. When is the Government going to allow the export of timber so that these people can also achieve what they had started achieving in terms of improving their livelihood?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, do not turn on the clock when we are consulting. Let it be.

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the concern basically is about the business in forestry products, timber in particular. His question is: When is the suspension of the export of timber going to be removed? I think what was suspended was the issuance of licences to deal in timber, particularly the mukula. That is another issue. The issue of the mukula will be dealt with.

 

Madam Speaker, there was a lot of illegality in the forestry or timber issues. A lot of work has been done by the Government; it has been auditing, as the hon. Member does recognise. I should believe that it is our concern, all of us, because that was a means of livelihood for some people not just in the North-Western Province, but other areas in Zambia that are endowed with many trees that culminate into timber.

 

Madam Speaker, at the end of the audit, which is almost done, it is our belief that there will be the lifting of the suspension. In fact, there was no suspension. There will be issuance of licences so that people can participate. For the mukula tree, we still have a bit of work to do.

 

Madam Speaker, I want to say this about the forestry industry; we are working on harmonising the Act so that we can do a good job. There is a lot, like the hon. Member has noticed. People can live on this.

 

Madam Speaker, let me use this time to also encourage people to go into timber production in terms of planting trees. We are in the green revolution. It is important. Through this august House, let me encourage all of us to go back and encourage people to plant trees so that those trees can grow and be sold. It is a business.

 

Madam Speaker, in fact, yesterday, I heard somebody talking about the issue of ZESCO Limited giving contracts to foreigners to supply poles. It is because we do not have these trees ourselves. It is important to go into long-term businesses like planting of trees. It is good for climate change and you can earn money by selling those same trees untreated.

 

Madam Speaker, I believe that the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment will make it clear how we can earn from carbon trading. You can earn twice from the same. We are going to ensure that people get their licences and, the sale of timber, particularly of certain species, is done as quickly as possible. By speaking here, I am speaking to the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment so that quickly, Zambians can again start earning something through this.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, Her Honour the Vice-President has taken time to explain the issues to do with the increase of fuel prices. I know that we cannot put the blame on anyone or on the Government. The issue is beyond our reach or beyond what we can do. At this moment, we need to, maybe, look at alternative solutions we can offer. I think that the Government can take that on.

 

Madam Speaker, I know that last year, the price of crude oil was about US$ 62.62 per barrel and now the lowest is about US$113 per barrel.

 

Madam Speaker, is the New Dawn Government not considering entering into a bilateral agreement with our neighbouring country, Angola, which is just a stone’s throw away so that we can start importing oil from Angola, or, maybe, enter into commodity exchange? I know that there are things Angola might need in abundance that we have here. Is the New Dawn Government not considering going into a bilateral agreement so that we can start getting oil from Angola?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, indeed, many of us keep asking this. Angola is near and it produces oil. Why can we not have this bilateral agreement when our fuel could be cheaper? That is the way quite a number of us have been thinking. However, I am informed that right now, the oil that comes from Angola may not be processed here to the finished product that we need. We do not have something like the Indeni Petroleum Refinery Limited at the moment. However, it is important to continue to have talks and see whether we can end up having a plant or an industry that can process that fuel to a usable end. For now, it may not be an alternative in the immediate term, but in the long-term, it is one of the things that the Government is considering.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, a friend of mine and former classmate was asking me: “How does the Vice-President manage to calmly answer questions? Is she is given these questions in advance?” I told him that when you tell the truth, there is no pressure.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Anakoka: Yesterday, there was a young lady in the premises of this Parliament who wanted to see the Vice-President, a seven year old girl. People are being inspired by Her Honour the Vice-President.

 

Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government committed to not having people ‘driving’ primary schools, when it took over the Government. What I mean by ‘driving’ primary schools is procuring expensive personal-to-holder vehicles were one vehicle can build a primary school. The Executive is leading by example in that hon. Ministers are driving second hand vehicles. However, this diseases has taken root –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is the question, hon. Member; we are running out of time?

 

Mr Anakoka: Madam Speaker, the ‘disease’ of new personal-to-holder vehicles has taken root in parastatals. It is a priority in almost of all parastatals and government funded institutions to procure top-of-the-range vehicles as personal-to-holder vehicles.

 

Madam Speaker, is the Government going to consider taking immediate steps to forestall this obsession with expensive personal-to-holder vehicles in order to serve millions of kwacha so that service delivery can be prioritised?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Luena for all the encouraging words. We all need encouragement sometimes and I totally appreciate that encouragement.

 

Madam Speaker, I also take note that the hon. Member noted that the people in the Front Bench are not driving top-of-the-range vehicles, not even new ones. I do not know how many ministries have procured new vehicles for their hon. Ministers. All of them are using the old vehicles that we found in office. That was, like the hon. Member referred to, one of the promises that we made. We said we would remove wastage. A vehicle that is moving is still a vehicle. I remember my President actually saying, “You will not be driving the Toyota Land Cruiser VXs.” Do some of you remember? He actually pronounced that a Toyota Hilux is okay as long as there is air-condition. So, when we came here, we were ready for that situation.

 

Madam Speaker, unfortunately, towards the end of his observation is that parastatal chiefs have become obsessed with the top-of-the-range vehicles. Hon. Ministers are here and are listening. That is why we have the Emoluments Commission Bill, and you should pass it today as it is coming for Third Reading. It is very important that we pass some of these laws. If the President is not driven in a top-of-the-range limousine, why should a person in a parastatal choose to spend the little money that is needed to improve the livelihood of our people? Why should he/she be obsessed with that?

 

Madam Speaker, I do not think that there is a parastatal company that is not under any ministry. So, thank you for bringing it to our attention; the hon. Ministers are listening. We will go back and find out what is happening in our parastatals. Even the chiefs have conditions of service. Are they abnormal? What can we do about that?

 

Madam Speaker, wastage must be sealed because it is through that that we end up wrecking the economy. Individuals get a lion’s share and the rest of the people do not. I do appreciate the hon. Member’s concern and, as the Government, we take note of it. It is already pronounced. That is not the Government we want, where money is wasted.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Speaker, families are breaking down. The United Party for National Development (UPND) pronounced that people who are married must be reunited. At the moment, there are very few people who have reunited according to the pronouncement which was made. What is the government doing to ensure that families are brought together?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for that very important question. Truly, that is our decision and it is part of the things that we ought to be doing and there will be many transfers. However, first and foremost, the people who are separated must make a decision to want to be together. This Government will not go hunting and asking individuals, “Where is your husband?” or “Where is your wife?” Since we have pronounced that, it is now up to them to decide where both of them should be and the Government will respond to that.

 

Madam Speaker, it is a commitment that we made. We are a Christian nation and, for us, what God has put together, it is let no Government put asunder. So, we will work towards that. It is one of the values of this Government. Our values are based on Christian values. Therefore, separating families is not one of the values in this Government.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

_______

 

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER

 

CORRECTION OF THE ANSWER BY THE HON. MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT FOLLOWING THE MINISTERIAL STATEMENT HE RENDERED TO THE HOUSE.

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, thank you very much.

 

Mr Mtayachalo: We want money.

 

Mr Nkombo: The money is there, it is in your accounts.

 

Madam Speaker, pursuant to Article 64 of our Standing Orders, I do have an explanation to make to the House. This is in relation to a follow-up question that was posed to me yesterday from the ministerial statement by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo Central Constituency, Hon. Chinga Miyutu.

 

Madam Speaker, I wish to thank you for giving me this opportunity to make a correction on the response to one of the questions that I was asked yesterday following my Ministerial Statement on the Implementation of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo, Hon. Chinga Miyutu, wanted to know what interest is charged on the CDF soft loans being given under the empowerment component. In my response, I indicated that there is no interest charged on it.

 

Madam Speaker, I wish now to correct the position by stating that under the soft loans, there is a 5 per cent minimal simple interest charged. This is for the purpose of covering the administrative cost of the managers of the loan facility. I wish to further remind hon. Members of Parliament in this august House that these empowerment funds are meant for seed money that is expected to be used for investment purposes and are supposed to be paid back.

 

Madam Speaker, I wish to take this opportunity to provide slightly more information on the capital thresholds and repayment of the empowerment loans as follows:

 

Capital Threshold                                                               Repayment Period

 

K5,000–K10,000                                                               12 Months

 

K10,001–K25,000                                                             18 Months

 

K25,001–K50,000                                                             24 Months

 

K50,001– K100,000                                                          36 Months

 

K100,001–K200,000                                                         48 Months

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to give further clarity on this matter.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

_______

 

MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

 

RECRUITMENT OF 30,000 TEACHERS

 

Madam Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that the hon. Minister of Education is not putting on a face mask on advice by his medical doctor because of his medical condition.

 

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima): Madam Speaker, I wish to thank you most sincerely for giving me this opportunity to make a ministerial statement to this august House. It is an honour for me to update the House on the status of the recruitment of a historical 30,000 teachers countrywide. This is historical because the country has never had a net teacher recruitment of 30,000 in a single year nor have we employed an equivalent number of teachers in the last ten years.

 

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, my update will cover the processes, road map and strategies the Government will be implementing to ensure that teachers are recruited in a transparent manner and distributed equitably in the spirit of being accountable to the people we serve, the ones who put us in office.

 

Madam Speaker, the distinguished hon. Members of this august House may recall that the recruitment of teachers emanates from the pronouncement made by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, during the Ceremonial Opening of the First Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly.

 

Madam Speaker, as espoused by His Excellency the President, the New Dawn Government is desirous to restore our education system to international standards and best practices through the provision of access to quality and equitable education for all.

 

Madam Speaker, I wish to mention that from the time the pronouncement was made, the Government has been on the ground undertaking preparatory works to ensure that teachers are recruited and deployed across the country as soon as is reasonably possible.

 

Madam Speaker, the House may recall that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Hon. Dr Situmbeko Musokotwane, MP, in delivering his Budget Speech to the National Assembly on Friday, 29^th October, 2021, explained the details of the Presidential directive. He informed this House that the New Dawn Administration had found money to recruit 30,000 in 2022 because education raises people’s productivity and creativity and promotes entrepreneurship and technological advances. In addition, it plays a very crucial role in securing economic and social progress and improving income distribution. It is for this reason that the New Dawn Government would continue prioritising education in order to improve its quality.

 

Madam Speaker, it is important to emphasise the fact that the New Dawn Government attaches great importance to education and, in particular, the provision of quality education. This is because education is not only a precursor to economic development for any country, but it is also a social and economic equaliser which enables the have-nots to have a fighting chance of living an economically independent and prospective life. In this regard, the New Dawn Government place a high premium on education and this is evidenced by the unprecedented number of 30,000 teachers to be employed and deployed in a single year. This will no doubt go a long way to improve quality in our education system.

 

Madam Speaker, there are many factors that come into play in determining the provision of quality education in schools. One of them is the teacher/pupil ratio. The ratio can be used as a tool to measure teacher workload as well as well as the allocation of resources. More importantly, it can be an indicator of the amount of individual attention any single child is likely to receive from the teacher.

 

Madam Speaker, the teacher/pupil ratio in most of our public schools especially in rural areas, stands at one teacher to seventy pupils which is almost double the desired ratio of one teacher to forty pupils for primary and one teacher to thirty-five pupils for secondary schools.

 

Madam Speaker, undesirable ratio has adversely affected the delivery of quality education for all. Therefore, recruitment of the pronounced number of teachers will definitely improve teacher/pupil ratios, teacher/learner contact time as well as the provision of quality education and ultimately contribute to attaining the desired learning outcomes.

 

Madam Speaker, the undesirable teacher-pupil ratio is one of the challenges the ministry has been facing for a long time. Its impact is more pronounced in rural areas, as I said earlier. In this regard, the New Dawn Government will endeavour to continue to annually recruit more teachers over the next five years so as to attain the standard teacher/pupil ratio of one teacher to forty and one teacher to thirty-five pupils for primary and secondary schools, respectively by 2026.

 

Madam Speaker, teacher recruitment will also reduce the number of unemployed teachers. As you may be aware, the country has about 60,864 registered teachers that are not employed. An analysis of the school structures and the payroll indicates that the ministry has a total of 104,448 teachers countrywide. However, with the additional number of schools that the Government has constructed, upgraded and gazetted without corresponding resources to operationalise them, the education sector at early childhood education, primary and secondary levels still has a deficit of 115,066 teachers. This deficit has adversely affected the teacher/pupil ratio. The Government will endeavour to continue to recruit teachers every year.

 

Madam Speaker, let me hasten to mention that an amount of K1,994,817,600 has been provided in the 2022 National Budget for the recruitment of the 30,000 teachers. In order to be transparent in our recruitment process, my ministry, in November 2021, constituted a Multi-Stakeholder Technical Committee to guide and manage the recruitment process. The Technical Committee comprised representatives from the following institutions:

 

1. Management Development Division (MDD), Cabinet Office
2. Public Service Management Division (PSMD)
3. Ministry of Education
4. Ministry of Finance and National Planning
5. Teaching Service Commission (TSC)
6. Teacher Unions
7. Teaching Council of Zambia (TCZ)
8. Zambia Qualifications Authority (ZQA)
9. Examinations Council of Zambia (ECZ)
10. Higher Education Authority (HEA)

 

To further enhance the credibility of the process, the following institutions were engaged in the consultative process:

1. Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC)
2. Office of the President, Special Division
3. Smart Zambia Institute
4. Ministry of Labour and Social Security
5. Zambia Postal Services Corporation (Zampost)

 

Madam Speaker, written letters to District Commissioners to play an oversight role of monitoring the entire process from the beginning to the end at district level have also been dispatched.

 

Madam Speaker, the Ministry applied a systematic approach to arrive at the distribution of teachers to be recruited. In this regard, the Technical Committee conducted in its assessment of the requirements across all districts taking into consideration the following:

 

1. approved establishment for each school;
2. staff on the payroll of each school;
3. actual staff on the ground at each school taking into consideration that the staff working at respective schools were not necessarily the same as on the payroll; and
4. variance between the staff teaching at school against approved establishment.

 

Madam Speaker, the highlights of the findings of the analysis were as follows;

 

1. majority of schools particularly in rural areas had a deficit of staff;
2. the deficit between the approved establishment and the actual staff needed on the ground at various schools was, as I stated, 115,066;
3. Eastern, Northern, Western, Central and Muchinga provinces were operating at 12.6 per cent, 13.6 per cent, 15.1 per cent, 16.9 per cent and 18.4 per cent respectively;
4. Lusaka had the highest staffing levels at 67 per cent;
5. 17,800 teaching staff were working away from schools on whose payrolls they were sitting; and
6. there were a number of schools in Lusaka, Copperbelt and some provincial centres that had staff above approved establishment. The excess staff above the school approved establishment will be redeployed to schools with lower staffing levels within the same districts to avoid separating couples.

 

Madam Speaker, in view of the huge deficit between the approved establishment and the actual staff on the ground at various schools in excess of 115,066, and taking into account that some schools were reasonably staffed, the distribution of teachers to be recruited has focused only on schools with staffing levels below 36 per cent. Schools with staff allocation above 36 per cent of approved establishment were not considered for recruitment hence the difference in the number of staff to be recruited under the different districts and provinces. In this regard, the distribution of positions to be created and teaching staff to be recruited is as follows:

 

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that 30,000 teachers will be recruited and segregated as follows:

 

1. 1,500 Senior Secondary School Subject Teachers;
2. 26,597 Primary School Class Teachers and Junior Secondary School Subject Teachers; and
3. 1,903 Early Childhood Education Teachers. This is against a back drop of 1,807 recruited early childhood teachers in the last ten years.

 

Hon. Member: Eh!

 

Mr Syakalima: I said 1,903 this year against a back drop of 1,807 recruited in ten years. That gives you an average of 180 every year. Just once, it is 1,903, for us.

 

Madam Speaker, I wish to mention that apart from the teachers to be recruited, the ministry will also operationalise promotional positions as follows:

 

1. three Directors and three Assistant Director positions for primary education, secondary education and curriculum development that despite being in the approved structures at the head office have not been operationalised;
2. 129 positions for District Education Board Secretaries and Secondary School Head Teachers;
3. 666 positions for Deputy Head Teachers, Heads of Departments, Senior Lecturers and Education Standards Officers;
4. 1,689 positions for teachers who have obtained degrees;
5. 129 positions for primary school teachers that have upgraded their qualifications from certificates to diploma level; and
6. seven positions for senior teachers.

 

The above measures are largely aimed at addressing the current problem where officers have been performing functions in higher positions for over a period of time, but could not be formally appointed due to the lack of treasury authority. As the exercise comes to an end, it is envisaged that over 7,000 promotions and upgrades would have been regularised.

 

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that in accordance with the roadmap, the TSC will, on Tuesday, 5^th April, 2022, issue an advertisement in both print and electronic media inviting applications for the recruitment of 30,000 teachers.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, the recruitment process has been decentralised to the district level in line with Government policy on decentralisation.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Syakalima: In this regard, applicants will be required to apply to the District Education Board Secretary’s Office in districts where they wish to be employed through the Zambia Postal Services Corporation (Zampost). Upon receipt of the application, Zampost will send an Short Messaging System (SMS) notification to the applicant as proof of receipt.

 

Madam Speaker, the House may also wish to note that in order to allow for transparency, Zampost will capture all applications received and create a database. The database and the application will be delivered to the District Human Resource Management Committees at the respective districts which will open and undertake the selection process. The rationale behind this requirement is to remove the human interaction and/or intervention between the applicants and the staff involved in the processing of applications.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Syakalima: This will further reduce the cases of nepotism and corruption.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Syakalima: It is anticipated that all things being equal, the schedule of the successful candidates will be published on 7^th to 18^th May, 2022.

 

Madam Speaker, allow me to highlight salient elements of the roadmap that the ministry is following:

 

1. following the pronouncement to recruit 30,000 teachers, the ministry appointed a Technical Working Group comprising officers from, as I stated, Ministry of Education, TSC, PSMD, TCZ, Ministry of Finance and National Planning, MDD and teacher unions;

 

       b.  Strategic Planning and Communication

 

     A series of meetings on strategic planning and communication were undertaken and are ongoing to ensure   

     smooth teacher recruitment;

 

  c. Data Collection and Analysis

 

    The exercise was conducted from 9^th November, 2021 to 20^th March, 2022, in all the 116 districts in order to   

    establish the staffing needs of each district across the country;

 

         d. Stakeholder Engagements

 

       A series of engagements were conducted and by 28^th November, 2021, Zampost agreed on the modalities          to be used during the 2022 recruitment in order to ensure impartiality in the receipt and delivery of     

        applications using an electronic system and at the same time, hard copies to be delivered to the District   

        Education Board Secretary (DEBS) offices;

 

   e.   appointment of Provincial Consolidation and Validation Committees was done by 24^th February, 2022.                 These committees will consolidate and validate the selections that will be done and submitted by the   

          District Human Resource Management Committees in the respective provinces;

 

        f. information Cabinet Memorandum (CabMemo) on teacher recruitment was developed and circulated to               all ministries for comments and subsequently considered by the Cabinet on 29^th March, 2022;

 

 g. orientations and training of the district and Provincial Human Resources Management Committees                       commenced on 21^st March, 2022, and is expected to run up to 12^th April, 2022;

 

  h.   creation of positions on the Payroll Management and Establishment Control System (PMEC) will                       

        commence on 4th April, 2022;

 

    i. advertisement for recruitment for 30,000 teachers, as I said, will be placed in the electronic and print media           on 5^th, 6^th and 7^th April, 2022 for three days;

 

      j. Zampost will commence the receiving and delivering of applications in all districts by 5^th April, 2022, and              conclude delivery by 15^th April, 2022;

 

         k. at the district level, the District Human Resource Management Committees will undertake data                             capturing, short listing and selection of successful applicants from 15^th to 25^th April, 2022 and 26^th to                  27^th April, 2022 submit reports to their respective provincial offices;

 

         L. provincial consolidation and validation committees will review the submissions from the districts and                     submit reports to the National Consolidation Committee during the period 28^th April to 3^rd May, 2022;

        N. at national level, consolidation and validation will be undertaken between 5^th to 8^th May, 2022;

        O. the Teaching Service Commission will review and approve the consolidated and validated lists of                        selected candidates from 9^th to 15^th May, 2022;

        P. press briefing to announce the publication of successful candidates will done on 16^th May, 2022;

        Q. names of successful candidates to be published on 17^th and 18^th May, 2022;

        R.   conveyance of directive to all levels will be undertaken from 16^th to 20^th May, 2022;

        S.  a district deployment of officers to respective schools will be conducted between 13^th to 30^th June,                      2022; and

        T.placement of new teachers on PMEC will be undertaken from 13^th to 30^th June, 2022, as teachers report             to their respective districts and schools.

 

Madam Speaker, let me now conclude by re-emphasising that for effective learning to take place in a classroom, there should be a teacher. It is for his reason that the New Dawn Government puts emphasis on having adequate teachers in schools, especially schools in rural areas. Providing quality and lifelong accessible, equitable and relevant education for all is at the heart of the New Dawn Government.

 

Madam Speaker, education is an equalizer, hence, the need to provide quality and equitable education. As such, the recruitment of 30,000 teachers will invaluably create opportunities for all citizens of this country who are expected to reach their full potential as earlier stated, in particular, the rural school going children. God bless this country.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Education.

 

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Madam Speaker, I thank you very much and I thank the hon. Minister of Education for that excellent statement which is so exciting for every one of us.

 

Madam Speaker, we had a situation in the previous regime where even those who were still at colleges were recruited and put on the payroll. Would the hon. Minister assure me that this time around, that will not happen and those who completed first will be considered first because they have been waiting for too long?

 

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, it is shocking that the hon. Member for Dundumwezi –. I am standing pursuant to Standing Order 65 which requires that information provided on the Floor of this House should be factual and verifiable.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Dundumwezi has just made a very serious allegation against the past regime. It appears it is hon. Ministers who are employing, but I doubt that very much. It is the system, just as the hon. Minister put it. The hon. Member has indicated that the past Government was employing students, people who were in college, and putting them on the payroll in the past. Is he in a position to come and lay the evidence on the Table to verify those that there were students, but were on the Government payroll? I seek your serious ruling on this matter, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you Acting Leader of the Opposition for that point of order. My advice to the House is that, please, let us try to be factual. This is a very important topic on which people out there are waiting for you to deliver. So, let us stick to the ministerial statement and just get points of clarification. If you have got some issues, it is very important that you give evidence by laying the documents on the Table. Follow that guidance so that we do not waste time because we have got a lot of work before us. We can even go up to 2000 hours or 2100 hours, but let us manage our time properly.

 

The hon. Minister of Education may proceed.

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, maybe, this question that has come from the hon. Member of Parliament for Dundumwezi gives me an opportunity to explain the several exigencies that were actually happening. The hon. Member may not have something to lay on the Table literally, but there are several things that went wrong. There are certain things that we have actually busted into with the police and ECZ.

 

Madam Speaker, not many of the people who are called nurses, clinical officers and teachers qualify to be as such. First of all, some of them do not even have Grade 12 results. When we called for a meeting in Chilanga, the twenty-eight years that I was talking about, these are the things that – we had just busted into something with the ECZ and the police. So many things are still under investigation. However, it will tell you to say that this is why I am now trying to get those of you who would be applying for these 30,000 positions to please get the right papers. Just get the right papers.

 

Hon. Government Members: Some are here.

 

Mr Syakalima: If you are not going to get the right papers, you are in trouble because I think things were let loose that anybody who had been to college and had a diploma or a degree could be hired, without a Grade 12 certificate which is the beginning. You will kill people if you become a nurse without a Grade 12 certificate. You are not going to be a normal teacher if you do not have a Grade 12 certificate because that is the beginning.

 

Madam Speaker, so my appeal is that if you do not have the grade 12 certificate, and you think that after you have completed your diploma or degree is when you are going to rewrite your Grade 12, you are in trouble. You are just in trouble. So, there are so many facets and this is why we can see that it seemed as if we were delaying. We started this process in November. We are coming from a difficult past. So, we do not want to behaviour the same way and then we go into a ditch again.

 

Madam Speaker, 30,000 is too much to get half of those who are not supposed to be there. We will destroy the country and the children. So, I beg of all of you as hon. Colleagues to never –There are people who are actually forging Grade 12 certificates.

 

Hon. Government Member: Some are here.

 

Mr Syakalima: Some are nurses, clinical officers and teachers.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, this is not because they were using the ECZ, no. Some people are forging as if it was the ECZ and then we take them to become teachers, clinical officers or nurses. This is why this issue has been done so systematically. We do not want to go back to where we came from.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

 

Mr Mubika (Shangombo): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for that very good statement. It is a fact that the Patriotic Front (PF) was booted out of power of because of corruption and nepotism ...

 

Mr Muchima: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mubika: ... and forgery. The hon. Minister has told us that the applications in this recruitment will be done through the post office. I am sure that to avoid –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.

 

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I said that during the previous regime, corruption and nepotism were the order of the day. Now that the hon. Minister has advised applicants to submit their applications through the Post Office, which is a commendable job, is he also considering promoting those teachers who are serving, but have upgraded themselves and those who were not promoted because of corruption and nepotism? Is the hon. Minister assuring the House that applicants will not be recruited based on corruption and nepotism?

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, if my hon. Colleague cared to listen, I elaborated this statement so that it goes to the very people who are going to be recruited. Yes, I can assure him that there will be no corruption and nepotism, as envisaged in this statement. This is a fight that we have to do together. That is the reason we have put so many facets. If the hon. Member checked the institutions that we have assembled, I do not think he would think anybody can dare do that, including those who used to recruit. I know what was obtaining. I have been on the ground to check on what was obtaining. For us, if we do not fight corruption and just put people in places, we would have actually destroyed the country. Can you imagine a person who does not qualify teaching Grade 1s or early childhood education; what methodology did he/she learn if he/she did not pass?

 

Madam Speaker, unfortunately, yesterday, I discovered that people forge even Grade 9 certificates. This is a lost country. We were under a lost and wasted decade.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Syakalima: I know the facets of fighting. We shall see that many people are still around. However, the team of institutions that we have assembled gives me comfort. It may not be 100 per cent full proof, but it gives me comfort that this exercise will be as clean as it is intended to be.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I want to emphasise to the applicants that they should not dare apply if they do not qualify because, firstly, they will injure the country if they are given the jobs and, secondly, if they are caught, they will have no room to be free.

 

Madam Speaker, if we do not fight corruption this time we are recruiting, we would have destroyed the country. Unfortunately enough, the ugly face of corruption entered the school system. That is how you destroy countries. You can do anything that you want, but never attempt to do things that our Colleagues did in the last ten years to the school system. I always say that Idi Amin was a fool. He was a foolish dictator, but he never touched his education system. The Makerere University remained what it is. What we have now is a sorry sight of our education system and if we do not correct it, we will crash-land before we take off.

 

Madam Speaker every one of us is called upon as people’s representatives. Hon. Colleagues would not want their schools to be infested with people who do not qualify. Those children are the people who make what we call doctors. It starts from early childhood education. That child who is there is going to be a mechanical engineer and he/she will destroy a country. He/she will become a half baked engineer and clinical officer. This reminds me; these same people who we recruit as nurses and clinical officers, do you wonder that there is pilferage of drugs? It is because they are used. For them to become nurses and clinical officers, they forged. So, what would make them not pilfer when they are used to corruption? They are used to stealing, basically. They stole a qualification and now they are stealing drugs, except that nobody can steal chalk because there is no market. However, the mere fact that my chalk is for a pupil, how do I make that pupil?

 

Madam Speaker, I can assure my hon. Colleague that it is desirous that we curb this corruption and nepotism because it has killed the country. When I look at the education system, we have no country. We have to take up the rubble and start mending. This is why we had to go to the extent of going after all those who are involved in the education system such as the Ministry of Finance and National Planning and Cabinet Office; we also had to involve the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC); and the Zambia Security Intelligence Service (ZSIS) Special Division. The Examination Council of Zambia (ECZ) is also carrying with it the police. So, when you see the police missing on the list, it is because the ECZ is carrying with it the police. So, we have all the facets of our security agents. Where there is no ACC, there must be the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC) because it has also been informed. So, I do not know if anyone will escape this dragnet.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Lubozha (Lufubu): Madam Speaker, there has been a concern, particularly in my constituency and people have been troopping to my office to find out what criterion will be employed in the teacher recruitment exercise, particularly considering that there are teachers who completed their education in earlier years like 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 and those that have just recently completed. Will preference be given to year of completion?

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, we have not segregated by year of completion. If one qualifies, one must apply, whether one completed in 2011 or whichever year. They should just wait for the advert and it will show them. There is nothing about when one completed. Perhaps, at age segregation is where we will note, but we have taken care of everybody. As long as one fits in there and qualifies. One can apply for secondary, if they have a subject; primary; junior secondary school or early childhood education. They can apply and compete. As I told hon. Members, we will probably have 45,000 people competing. Naturally, there will be some who will be – maybe let me read something so that hon. Members appreciate where we are coming from and compare with what we have just done.

 

Madam Speaker, last year, 1,200 teachers were recruited.

 

Hon. Member: Eh, the whole year?

 

Mr Syakalima: That was for the whole year. That is what our hon. Colleagues recruited. They did not even put this number on the payroll. It took this Government, courtesy of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, to put them on the payroll. That was in November and December, just last year.

 

Madam Speaker, Cabinet had agreed that from 2015, there should be recruitment of 5,000 teachers per year, meaning that in ten years, 50,000 could have been recruited. We would have been left with 10,000 out of 60,000. It was going to be easier. However, in 2015, they recruited zero. The highest they went was in 2016 when they recruited 6,000. In all the seven years, they only recruited 11,000. In less than a year, this Government has recruited 30,000.

 

Hon. Government Member:  Muletasha! Tantameni!

 

Mr Syakalima: It is not for them to thank us because that is an obligation of the Government. Any normal Government must behave like this one.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mubika: But that was not a normal one.

 

Mr Syakalima: I am saying any normal Government must behave like this Government.

 

So, I appreciate where we are coming from, but during that time, we lost out on many children who should have been taught properly to become medical doctors over the years.

 

Madam Speaker, I think we will try by all means to make sure that we get the cancer of corruption out of our country. It could be costly to fight corruption, but it is better to fight it so that future generations benefit. It is better to fight corruption rather than employ a teacher who will destroy the school system or employ a nurse or medical practitioner who will destroy not only an institution, but also the lives of our people because they forged a certificate for them to go and do nursing or to be clinical officers.

 

Madam, this is not a joke. We busted into this because one person led us to another person. Yesterday, I received about nineteen cases in the health sector and twenty in our education system. If this ran the whole country, how many are we going to catch? This is why I am saying that if you do not qualify, even if you have got a diploma, a certificate or degree, you will not compete. Check your Grade 12 certificate

 

Madam Speaker, I was informed by the Examinations Council of Zambia (ECZ) and the police that in order for a statement to be corrected, K1,500 was charged per subject. That is in order for one to become a teacher or a nurse.

 

Madam Speaker, we are talking about a country which went into serious doldrums.

 

Mr Mubika: PF!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Syakalima: To get ourselves out of this requires concerted effort, and that concerted effort must be a national fight. It does not matter where one sits or where one comes from. Things went wrong. We have been advised, even by the international community, to, first of all, agree that things went wrong. If we do not agree that things went wrong, we will crash-land before we take off.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Syakalima: So, we must understand that things went wrong. We are all Zambians after all.

 

Madam Speaker, I like the way ‘Nkana Water’ behaves because he agrees that things went wrong at some point. Is it not?

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Laughter

 

Mr E. J. Banda (Petauke Central): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Petauke the opportunity to ask a question on the recruitment of teachers.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr E. J. Banda: Madam Speaker, let me start by thanking the New Dawn Government for fulfilling one of its promises to teachers who made us to be here where we are as it is now one of the qualifications; we need to pass through that process of being in the hands of teachers to be here in Parliament.

 

Mr Sampa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr E. J. Banda: We are here because of teachers. I thank the hon. Minister and wish he could continue recruiting teachers at the same rate from this year until 2026 so that our school-going children, especially in community schools where there are no teachers –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is your question?

 

Mr E. J. Banda: I am building my question, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Go straight to the question

 

Mr E. J. Banda: Madam Speaker, on the same route which he has taken through the Zampost, why has the hon. Minister not used the same system under his ministry in each and every district?

 

Mr Sampa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr E. J. Banda: Looking at the history of the ZamPost, I am sure you saw what happened with the Social Cash Transfer Scheme. It was about the ZamPost. Why can he not take the system that was taken to the ZamPost into his ministry in each and every district to curb this corruption and nepotism?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, it is a quick one. Standing Order 206 talks about the dress code for hon. Members of Parliament. It says that male Members of Parliament should dress in a formal executive suit and a pair of long trousers, and we were guided that it should be a dark colour.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Sampa: Is the hon. Member for Petauke in order to come to this House ...

 

Hon. Members: And Roan!

 

Mr Sampa: ... together with the hon. Member for Roan, dressed like they play for Wenge Musica in this honourable House? I seek your serious ruling.

 

Laughter

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, the dress code for Members of Parliament does not state the colour. So, the two hon. Members in white are in order.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, if the hon. Member listened properly, I said that this will take place at district level. Maybe, let me hasten to mention that in districts where there are no post offices, the postal service company has agreed to take officers there. They came here from Ndola and we agreed. We want to check on how we can manage this whole process to avoid people taking their applications straight to the human resource department because somebody can even hide or encourage an officer to get by hand. Such used to happen and officers would charge for it.

 

Madam Speaker, as the post officers will be on the ground, there will be the DEC, the ACC and the Office of the President. So, the net is really tight. Where there is no post office, the nearby ones we will service them and somebody has to stamp and put in the database. The database which is in the district has to comply with what the post office and the headquarters have in the structure. These will get even to the provinces because from the district, they will go to the province and from there to the national check. The ECZ will be there at the district level to check the authenticity of the grade 12 certificate and all those certificates that are issued by it.

 

Madam Speaker, I am sure that with this, even if criminals know how to manoeuvre around, their days are numbered.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear.

 

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister and the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government for the recruitment of 30,000 teachers. Where I come from, we say mwana wamuyako a ka chita ninshi a chita.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Meaning? Can you translate?

 

Mr Menyani Zulu: Madam Speaker, meaning that when your friend has scored, you should applaud him/her. In the education system, I think the new Government has scored. Let us give them a ‘Hear, hear!’

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Menyani Zulu: Madam Speaker, politics aside ...

 

Mr Nkombo: You should change the team.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Menyani Zulu: I am none aligned hon. Minister.

 

Interjection

 

Mr Menyani Zulu: Madam Speaker, my Constituency, like others which other hon. Members of Parliament represent, is vast. In some of the remote areas where we come from, you find that the establishments at the schools are full, but there are only two or three teachers. The reason is that teachers run away from these areas. You come to understand that those teachers come from Lusaka and are sent to an environment which they do not understand. So, basically they move to where there is a tarmac and power.

 

Madam Speaker, does the ministry have a plan or a method to see to it that teachers that come from particular areas are given preference in those areas? I appreciate the system. It is very transparent and very good. However, the question is: How are we going to give preference to those graduates who come from those areas? They have graduated. At a certain point the Government is going to decentralise the recruitment when they come to Lusaka.

 

Madam Speaker, what plans or methods has the Government used to see to it that it reduces on people moving away from schools because they do not understand the environment or do not fit in that environment and give jobs to people who fit in the environment because they were born and raised in those areas? How is the Government going to do this? For me, that is very important.

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I think I have stated, several times, that people should apply in areas where they stay and because we are decentralising, they are known. As long as they have a qualification, priority will be given to them because they will stay in the area. However, the comfort that the hon. Member must have is that, we have also said that if one goes to Nyimba and applies there because one’s mind is telling one that after one gets a slot there, one will go to Lusaka, it will not happen. One will have to stay in an area for four years initially. One should not disadvantage others.

 

Mr Menyani Zulu: May be five years will do.

 

Mr Syakalima: Maybe. However, this happens sometimes because we may not manage a full establishment from the people within an area. The people who may have certificates or diplomas in Nyimba may not be enough. So, we bring others to fill the establishment. However, if the locals with the right qualifications can fill up the establishments, then it is well and good. So, I think that one has been taken care of.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Speaker, allow me to congratulate the New Dawn Government for really doing justice to the teaching service. I also congratulate my former lecturer for putting up a systematic plan ensuring that loopholes are closed.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister just said the 1,200 teachers who were not put on the payroll have now been put on the payroll. I still have complaints coming from some teachers in Lundazi who have not yet been put on the payroll and yet they have served the nation. What is the Government going to do over those teachers, so as not run after new business before satisfying old business?

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, when the hon. Member for Lundazi said my former lecturer, somebody said I gave her fake results.

 

Laughter

 

Mr J. Chibuye: I said you gave good results.

 

Mr Syakalima: He said good results. You can see the performance of my students. So, that is how I want every child to be; like that.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, Treasury authority was given for 1,200 teachers. However, when the Teaching Service Commission advertised and recruited, it recruited well over 1,400. The Treasury authority was for 1,200, but the Commission over recruited. These are the people we are now straggling to see how we can put them on the payroll. They were outside the Treasury authority.

 

Madam Speaker, so you can as well ask how that happened. It was terrible. People were not following the laid down procedures. The Treasury authority was for about 1,200 people. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning had to release that which was approved in the Treasury authority, but somebody went ahead and over recruited. So, how they were now picking who should fit in that 1,200 is another myth. So, it means that there was guess work. We should not do things like that, even when the systematic way of doing things has been put in place, like the way we are doing them here. Let us put in an element of honesty. There is too much dishonesty around institutions. However, I can assure the hon. Member that everybody, including those who were supposed to get positions after people had retired, will be put on the payroll. You can now imagine what that means; the Government is paying retirees. So, there are gaps are in the teaching system. Those who were not promoted because retirees were still on the payroll are now going to be fit in.

So that includes those who were necessarily not promoted. It means gaps are still there. So, they will all fit in because, the Government, again, courtesy of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, has paid retirees, and that is making our job easier. Otherwise, people were going to be left out because teachers or those people who are supposed to retire are still on the payroll.

 

So, Madam Speaker, the payroll will be cleaned. We still have a responsibility to clean the payroll system some more. It is why we did not only depend on the payroll system when we did the analysis. We also went on the ground to check who was in school, how many schools there were, what the establishment was, and how many were supposed to be in a particular school. That is how we discovered that somebody in Mulobezi is getting paid sitting in Mulobezi, but they are not in Mulobezi; they are somewhere else. So, all those things will be sorted out, if you like.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, I am getting concerned. The Ministry of Health, for example, indicated that it would employ people within the districts where they come from. I know the hon. Minister of Education is also following the same pattern. I am concerned as I do not want us to breed tribalism.

 

Madam Speaker, Dr Kaunda knew what he was doing when his Government employed people from Chama and sent them to work in Sesheke; and those employed in Mongu sent them to work in Mansa.

 

Madam Speaker, after he completes employing people in these districts, is the hon. Minister considering employing, in terms of comparison, like for like? For example, people who are employed and come from Itezhi-Tezhi or Nyimba deal with wild animals. Probably, they could come and stay in Chama South Constituency so that we do not have a situation where people from Malole work in Malole and people from Litoya in Mongu work in Mongu. That, for me, will be a very dangerous precedence in terms of tribalism.

 

Madam Speaker, after recruiting these people, is the hon. Minister considering swapping them so that, probably, more people from Chama could go and marry in Lozi land and people from Lozi land could go and marry in Bemba land? That is the Zambia that we want. I seek his clarification.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Maybe, instead of using ‘marrying’, we should say ‘to work from.’

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I think we must also accept that times have changed. What used to obtain in Dr Kaunda’s days has changed.

 

Mr Mung’andu interjected

 

Mr Syakalima: Listen, Leader of the Opposition; you asked a question, but you are still talking.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Syakalima: I am very observant. I am saying that things have changed. The hon. Member for Nyimba said that people run away when you get them from elsewhere. They are running away. This is where the crisis is. It is not about tribal issues. The crisis is about people running away from stations because they are not used to them. His view, which I concur with, is that people of particular areas are more determined. They say, “This is where I come from. I cannot run away. Who is going to teach my siblings? Let me stick around here.”

 

Madam Speaker, transfers will still be there. It is not that people will be stuck. I think, when I answered the hon. Member of Parliament for Nyimba, for example, I said in case we have a deficit after employing people around there, as we will have a deficit, we will certainly get others from elsewhere. If they are over-flooded in Chama, we will take them to Nyimba. Okay?

 

Madam Speaker, I have observed that the hon. Member has this passion about tribalism and what not. The one thing that we must be thinking about is: Are we developing the country? For me, every place in Zambia is my place.

 

Madam Speaker, I passed through Chama North and used the Matumbo-Chama Road. When I saw those children, I saw Zambians; doctors and pilots in Chama. For now, I need a teacher. If a teacher who comes from Chama will be there, I need that teacher to educate my children. It does not matter where he/she comes from, Inkwashi I or Inkwashi II, they will have to teach the children. I am planning for teachers. Are there teachers in Nyimba? Yes. I am not going to say, “Teacher, where do you come from, Nyimba?” “I come from the Southern Province.” No! I want teachers; that is all. I want 30,000. Has he heard me say that 30,000 will come from this or that end? I said 30,000 Zambians with qualifications, and not forged qualifications for that matter. They must be original.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: For the sake of progress, I will take the last three questions. I will start with hon. Member for Pemba.

 

Mr Hamwaata was not available.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker gave the Floor to Mr Mabeta but he was not available.

 

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, just like my sister, the hon. Member for Lundazi said, the people of Nalolo are sending messages here, particularly those who have appointment letters, but are not on the payroll. Now, I took note of the explanation by the hon. Minister that Treasury authority was for 1,200 teachers, but 1,400 teachers were recruited. In his response, the hon. Minister was not categorical on what the deficit should do. Should they reapply when they are already sitting with offer letters from the Government or they will be considered in this recruitment? How will this mess be cleaned up given that these people are still sitting with letters from the Government?

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, people have to be very careful because I am scrutinising everything. I hope those letters were not forged or got dubiously. I also hope they were not corrupt letters. If they were, then those people are in danger. They must also be very careful. Where did they get those letters? If they are genuine letters, it is well and good.

 

Madam Speaker, the explanation that I gave for Lundazi also applies to the hon. Member’s question. People must be conscientious because now, we are checking everything. We are also going into deeper gear to check if existing teachers qualify. This is a clean-up. If we do not clean up the education system, we would have lost the country. All of us must be conscious of that. So, well and good if those letters are authentic. The explanation I gave for Lundazi also goes for Nalolo and everywhere else.

 

I thank you, Madam.  

 

Mr P. Phiri (Mkaika): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister said that some people forged certificates at grade 9 and at grade 12. Does the ministry have plans to revise the certificates so that they become difficult to forge?

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, this is why they are being caught, otherwise, we were not going to catch them; the certificates are foolproof. If ones forge them, one gets caught. If it was very simple to forge the certificates, these people were not going to be caught. Anybody can forge anything, but we will trace or catch them. So, strictly speaking, the certificates themselves are okay, if you like; the marks are put there. People forget that time can catch up with them. Like the ones I am talking about, they have been around, but the investigative wings busted them and they are leading us to so many people.

 

Some are in custody and others are appearing in court. This is a huge burst-in that we have actually done. So, if we realise that the features are easily forged, then we can devise. As of now, the reason we are catching them is that the features cannot be forged. The forgery itself is about going and putting a signature which does not exist and copying the signature and doing things in the like manner. So, it is just doing things in like manner and not that the features which are on the certificates are easily forged, no.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, I would like a clarification for the people of Chienge and Zambia at large. I have seen an article in a newspaper where teachers – I do not know if there teachers, were...

 

Rev. Katuta was inaudible

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, are you there?

 

Rev. Katuta: ...were being audited in terms of early retirement.

 

I am sorry, Madam Speaker, am I audible?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Yes, you can go ahead.

 

Rev. Katuta: I am in my constituency and the network is a bit of a challenge.

 

Madam Speaker, from the 30,000 teachers that will be employed, is it true that 10,000 will account for those to be promoted who are already working and 10,000 the new entrants? How many new entrants are going to be employed by the Government? There is this story of 10,000 that have to be promoted. We are expecting 30,000 teachers to be promoted.

 

Mr Mabeta: On a Point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mabeta: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for this opportunity. Yesterday, I took time to sit with the Directors at the Ministry of Education to look at the plan. I think it is a perfect plan. Actually, let me thank the hon. Minister for the work which they have done so far.

 

Madam Speaker, we have 1,800 teachers with appointment letters in their hands, but are not on the pay roll. Do they need to apply or they should consider the appointments valid?

 

Hon. Member: Wa chi fuma panse.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I am not going to admit that point of order because it is a question. I will allow the hon. Minister of Education to answer the hon. Member for Chienge.

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, the simple answer is that 30,000 new entrants will be recruited.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

ALLOWANCES DUE TO TROOPS SERVING ON THE UNITED NATIONS (UN) PEACE KEEPING MISSION TO THE CENTRAL AFRICAN REPUBLIC (CAR) OR ANY OTHER

 

The Minister of Defence (Mr Lufuma): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to make a ministerial statement.

 

Madam Speaker, allow me, before I give my ministerial statement, to convey our sympathies and condolences to the family of the Late Colonel Lyson Siame and Second Lieutenant Kalasa Kabwe who perished in a tragic and fatal air accident. May their souls rest in peace.

 

Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to present a ministerial statement on Allowances Due To Troops Serving on the United Nations (UN) Peace Keeping Missions to the Central African Republic (CAR) or any other country, upon successful return to Zambia.

 

Madam Speaker, this ministerial statement is being issued to clear the miscommunication and misunderstanding thereof concerning the dispensation of the 100 per cent allowances due to troops upon successful return from the UN peace keeping missions abroad.

 

Madam Speaker, on 25^th February, 2022, the President of the Republic of Zambia and the Commander-in-Chief of the Defence Forces, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, reaffirmed his desire to better the lives of the Zambian defence forces officers and soldiers by increasing the 50 per cent allowance paid on completion of tour of duty to 100 per cent. He further explained that this was going to be paid as soon as the requisite modalities were dealt with and the Statutory Instrument (SI) promulgated.

 

Madam Speaker, the troops expected to, immediately upon arrival, obtain the 100 per cent allowances due to them in line with the presidential directive issued at the pass out parade of the officer cadets at Miltezi, Kohima Barracks in Kabwe, by the Republican President as Commander-in-Chief of the Defence Forces.

 

Madam Speaker, I wish to state that due to impediments in the reimbursement system, the funds could not be made available immediately. There were legal requirements which needed to be undertaken prior to the dispensation of allowances to the affected officers and soldiers. These included the revocation of the SI No. 7 of 1994 and SI No. 67 of 2002 which govern the current dispensation of allowances.

 

Madam Speaker, the requirements to effectively implement the dispensation of the 100 per cent allowances include the need to repeal the previous SIs in support of the 100 per cent dispensation as per presidential directive and the other requirement was for the Government to secure funds to meet the balance required to actualise the 100 per cent payment. This is because the UN is five months behind schedule in reimbursing Zambia due to financial challenges. I guess everybody is having financial challenges in this world.

 

Madam Speaker, the good will of Mr Hakainde Hichilema, the President of the Republic of Zambia and Commander-In-Chief of the Defence Forces, should not be misunderstood and dented with unsubstantiated subversive write ups on print or social media intended to incite soldiers of the Zambia Army or the defence force to mutiny in order to jeopardise the peace that this country enjoys and continues to enjoy.  

 

Madam Speaker, it is unfortunate that these write-ups, subversive and unsubstantiated comments are coming from known dischargees from the Zambia Army or from the defence forces who, during their service, misappropriated public and service funds with impunity, and other persons who are not even subject matter specialists on the UN and defence forces matters.

 

Madam Speaker, to have a clear understanding of the allowances paid to officers and soldiers, it is important to comprehend that SI No. 7 of 1994, signed by His Excellency the Late President Frederick Titus Mpundu Jacob Chiluba, facilitated for those that were deployed on UN Missions in Mozambique a payment of 50 per cent of personnel reimbursement to the troops contributing country. His Excellency, the late President Levy Patrick Mwanawasa also, through SI No. 67 of 2002, covered payment of 50 per cent of personnel reimbursement to the troop contributing country on all missions that Zambia is engaged in. The difference here is that the earlier SI No. 7 of 1994 was specific to Mozambique because that was the first outing. The second, by the Late President Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, was broadened to all countries. 

 

Madam Speaker, the intentions of Mr Hakainde Hichilema, the President of the Republic of Zambia and the Commander-In-Chief of the Defence Forces, are to further improve the welfare of our officers and soldiers by paying them 100 per cent of the payment of personnel reimbursement to the troop contributing country by the UN. This can only be actualised by the promulgation of the necessary SIs.

                                       

Madam Speaker, it is important to note that the contingent owned equipment manual under reimbursement states the following:

 

1. under paragraph two, the Government is reimbursed for contingent personnel at the rate of US$1, 428 per person per month from 1^st July, 2018; and
2. under paragraph four, the contingent personnel do receive directly from the peacekeeping mission a daily allowance of US$1.28 plus a recreational amount of $10.50 per day for up to 15 days of leave taken during each six-months period.

 

Madam Speaker, I wish to state that the SI is underway to address the matter and, thereby, clear any further misunderstanding now and in the future regarding payments of UN allowances for officers and soldiers serving in the Central African Republic (CAR) or any other peace-keeping mission abroad.

 

Madam Speaker, let me take this opportunity to thank our gallant men and women in uniform, for and on behalf of the people of Zambia, the Republican President who is also the Commander-In-Chief of the Defense Forces and, indeed, on my own behalf, for their exemplary commitment to duty, good behaviour and discipline during their tours of duty in UN Missions abroad.

 

Madam Speaker, as we embark upon the Zambatt 8, I encourage this contingent to continue to uphold the good behaviour and discipline that has become the hallmark of our troops both at home and in foreign land.

 

Madam Speaker, countrymen and women, whilst enjoying the democratic space provided by the New Dawn Government, we should shoulder the preservation of the peace of the nation by acting professionally and responsibly. This is very important. We should act responsibly even in the face of the democracy that has been provided and everybody is free to say whatever they wish. We should always be responsible, especially when it comes to issues pertaining to the defence and security of our country.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, I also call upon Parliament to support these humanitarian peace-keeping missions for the good of our country, Africa and the world as a whole. These peace-keeping missions have, of course, financial implications for which we shall solely depend on Parliament to sanction and support from time to time, going forward.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker,

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!                       

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister.

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, I thank you for...

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Can we please give him chance. You may continue, hon. Member.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for your protection.

 

Indeed, the issue of security is an issue for all of us as Zambians. For me, I am convinced that we have the best and most-disciplined defence force, probably, in the entire Africa, if not the world.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated in his speech that it is some of the former soldiers, those who are retired and whom he has further accused to have stolen, who are trying to bring confusion. I heard him say that.

 

Can the hon. Minister kindly confirm whether it is true that there was mutiny by some soldiers and that some soldiers were locked up? Is it true? If yes, what were the reasons? It is very important that the country gets to know what is happening.

 

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chama South for the question.

 

Madam Speaker, in the first instance, I thank the hon. Member for having mentioned that our troops, the men and women in uniform, are amongst the best disciplined not only in Africa, but definitely the world. I thank him for the compliment, and it is absolutely true.

 

Madam Speaker, I inform the hon. Member that it is not true at all that our men and women in uniform were detained. It is not true. What we know is that upon arrival, the men and women in uniform had to be taken and secluded to an area where they could be tested for the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) before release and for them to group in order to collect their monies as was stipulated, the 50 per cent. So, I can confirm to the hon. Member that those are nothing, but rumours.

 

I thank you.

 

Mr C. Mpundu (Chembe): Madam Speaker, we all agree that defence and security is propelled by discipline. That is its life blood. However, the hon. Minister has mentioned publication of information which can threaten the security of our country, pertaining to our officers. My question is: What measures has the ministry put in place to avoid such publications and occurrences, especially that the ministry is propelled by discipline?

 

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question. Unfortunately, modern technology has availed us with gadgets and facilities for anybody to wake up one morning and write whatever comes through their heads and publish whatever they feel fit. However, what the members of the public should know is that issues pertaining to the defence and security of the country are issues that should be handled with care. If you speak and publish whatever you want to publish, please, be mindful that you might be breaching the law and, as such, the long arm of the law will get you. So, we would like to encourage members of the community not to engage in unnecessary talk as has happened. We are talking to some of these people who have done so to counsel them, but should it go beyond board, we have the right to take punitive action.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, I thank you for according the people of Solwezi East a chance to ask the hon. Minister of Defence a question.

 

Madam Speaker, it is a known fact that in the past, when most of these men went for peace-keeping missions, they would come back and not be paid their allowances or dues. I thank the hon. Minister for his assurance that the New Dawn Government will be able to give them 100 per cent of their allowances.

 

Madam Speaker, when our men go out there, is the equipment or machinery that they use for the United Nations (UN) or it is ours? If it is ours, what benefit does Zambia get in return for using our equipment whilst on peace-keeping missions?

 

Mr Lufuma Madam Speaker, the equipment used on UN missions by any country is from the troop contributing country. In this case, it is the Zambia defence force equipment. What is done is that there is a schedule of rates of reimbursement. So, for example, if you take buses, there is a rate that is attached to buses. If you take armoured cars; generators; or any equipment, they are rated and reimbursed. So, for whatever equipment that we take there, we get reimbursement. So, that reimbursement is then used to repair and maintain the same equipment for us to be able to provide the necessary services in whichever country we are in. So, yes, we get reimbursed for the equipment and that equipment is from the troop contributing country.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for a well articulated ministerial statement. Indeed, it is gratifying to hear that men and women in uniform, especially those serving in peacekeeping missions are being taken care of.

 

Madam Speaker, I would like to learn from the hon. Minister of Defence. He keeps saying President Hakainde Hichilema, the Commander-In-Chief of the Defence Forces. How many defence forces do we have as a nation?

 

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. Katambo for that question. I appreciate the opportunity to clarify.

 

Madam Speaker, we have three services. Let me start with the army. We have the ground force, that is, the Zambia Army; we have the air force, that is, our Zambia Air Force (ZAF) which mans the air and supports the Zambia Army, the ground force; and we also have the Zambia National Service. Those three forces combined are called the defence forces of Zambia. That is how we derive that acronym.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity. First of all, I want to thank the military personnel for the role they played during the August 2021 elections. I think without their effort we could not have been here today. So, I really salute them for the work they did.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mabeta: Madam Speaker, I want to find out on behalf of the military personnel on the 50 per cent which was being deducted from them …

 

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mabeta: …who was benefitting from it? Where did it go?

 

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, again, I stand pursuant to Standing Order 65. Information presented on the Floor this House should be factual and verifiable. We are shocked here, as a party that just lost elections, by the disclosure of the hon. Member for Kankoyo that the defence forces assisted them to win –

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mung’andu: Clearly, he said we never –

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, during and even after elections, we never had a violent situation in this country. It was a peaceful election and the transition was peaceful. For him to say that they are where they are because of the defence forces, we would like to know –

 

Hon. Member: Chizungu baba.

 

Mr Mung’andu: If you say ‘chizungu baba’, maybe I have a distinction in English which you do not have.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Members, can we give him chance. Acting Leader of the Opposition, can you, please, go straight to your point of order and avoid listening to the interjections.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, is he in order to insinuate or tell this House that the United Party for National Development (UPND) is where it is because the defence forces helped it to win? If the answer is yes, is he in a position to bring proof on the Floor of this House that, indeed, this is what happened? We are just from praising our men and women in uniform for their professionalism. What we know is that they are very professional and are not involved in political activities, but he knows otherwise.

 

Madam Speaker, is he in a position to provide that proof so that we also have our own second judgment as a party that just lost an election?

 

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling. 

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Can the hon. Member for Kankoyo clarify what he said because, unfortunately, I missed it.

 

Mr Mabeta: Madam Speaker, when we stand to speak, we speak from a point of correct information, sincerity and passion for the country we have. If the hon. Member for Chama South wants to find out, there is a docket at the Mufulira Central Police. On the voting day, in Chibolya, I was chased like a rat. I had to find refuge under a bed where the army came and pulled me from under the bed for me to be safe. There is a docket in Mufulira. So, we do not speak out of malice like they do. We speak facts. If the army did not save my life, I could be dead today. That is a fact and there is a docket at the Mufulira Central Police.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Sampa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Matero, you cannot raise a point of order on a point of order. We are still trying to clear one point of order.

 

From what I understand from the hon. Member for Kankoyo, he has attributed his statement to what happened to him. However, my advice to the hon. Member of Parliament for Kankoyo is that when there is a personal statement or issue, you cannot generalise it. So, we can move on with that guidance.

 

May the hon. Minister of Defence respond to the question that was raised.

 

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kankoyo for his question on the 50 per cent, the other half. The UN reimbursed the Government on the equipment and personnel subscribed to its operations. So, if you go to the UN operations manual, it will show you that the agreement is between the UN and the troop contributing country. In turn, the Government decides on how much should be given to the personnel as the contract is between the UN and the Government. This also varies from country to country. Further, hon. Members may wish to note that the UN reimburses the Government based on the equipment and military kit to the officers and soldiers on the UN operations. 

 

Madam Speaker, some of the 50 per cent is used to kit the personnel that goes into the UN and some of the money is also used to train them. Before they go for operations, they are in training for one year. That is part of the money that is used to ensure that they are properly prepared. This is why they are professional. We use a lot of money from there to ensure that they are properly prepared.

 

Madam Speaker, this equipment has to be repaired. We also have equipment that I talked about and it has to be repaired and replaced as and when need arises in the field. This cost is born by the Zambian Government since the memorandum of understanding signed is on wet lease. There is wet lease and dry lease. In this case, Zambia is on wet lease. We take care of everything. So, that 50 per cent is used basically on personnel and replacement of some of the equipment that is required in order to do the operations, maintenance and administration of troops while they are out there.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, may I take this opportunity to consolidate what our Leader of the Opposition said in commending our men and women in uniform for exemplary conduct both locally and abroad. We have not received any adverse reports, especially about those on peace-keeping missions.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that there are some former soldiers who are trying to engage into activities which threaten the security of this nation. I want to find out if these soldiers are the ones who were retired after reaching the retirement age or in national interest.

 

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, the best I can do is to inform the hon. Member that, that is classified information and we would like to keep it under wraps, if he does not mind.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

COUNTRYWIDE BUDGET DATA COLLECTION TOOL

 

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to issue this announcement or statement on the Countrywide Data Collection System (CDCS) that has been developed for monitoring and tracking budgetary spending as it compares with actual deliverables on the ground. This is about monitoring what the money we disburse is doing on the ground, and what I am talking about this afternoon is a planning assignment.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government, through the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, has developed a data-capturing tool for monitoring progress on projects, programmes and services being provided by the Government through budgetary expenditures both through the Central Government and local government through the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

 

Madam Speaker, the development of this tool is part of the effort that the Government is undertaking in ascertaining service delivery as we spend Government money. This information will also be used as a benchmark in resource allocation with regard to the setting of sector targets to be achieved in subsequent years.

 

Madam Speaker, what it means is that we will capture information about development as it is now, just before the launch of the Eighth National Development Plan (8^thNDP). As we spend Government money in the next four years, we will be updating the same information along the way so that we are able to determine whether we are making progress or not.

 

Madam Speaker, for example, the hon. Minister of Education, a few moments ago, talked about the hiring of 30,000 teachers given the budgetary resources. We need to monitor all the time; are the teachers being hired? If they are being hired, where are they being located? It is not just about hiring, but also about the equitable distribution of teachers in the countryside. To do that, we need information to be captured.

 

Madam Speaker, in 2022, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning will embark on collecting data in the education sector, as a starting point. Thereafter, this effort of collecting data will be rolled out to other key ministries, which service our people. As you are aware, with respect to the Ministry of Education, the Government, through the 2022 Budget, actualised the free education policy as a reflection of its commitment towards universal access to education. Accordingly, in the 2022 National Budget, the Government allocated significant amounts of resources to make the free education policy a reality.

 

Madam Speaker, this tool we are talking about will, therefore, be used for ascertaining the actual service delivery in the sector in view of the funds to be expended as well as the deficit on the requirements. This includes areas requiring priority attention, going forward. For example, we need to ascertain the number of upgraded secondary schools which do not have supporting infrastructure such as teachers’ houses, laboratories, boarding facilities and appropriate classrooms.

 

Madam Speaker, let me just elaborate on this. In this country, there are schools which were either primary schools or basic schools which were just declared high schools. However, those declarations did not go hand in hand with new classrooms and new teachers’ houses. They were just declared by word of mouth. The question now is: Which schools are these? Can we know them and capture them? Similarly, other schools were constructed going back to more than ten years ago. However, some of them were totally abandoned in the last ten years. So, the question now is: At which stage are the high schools that were started? Previously, we were told that the Government would only focus on completing those which were at 80 per cent completion. Those that were below 80 per cent stalled.

 

Madam Speaker, going forward, this administration will not take that approach. Every year, we will give money to every school that was started, but was not completed.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Musokotwane: The reason for that is that every school must progress with the infrastructure that it has. So, if, for instance, each year, we can give four to five teachers’ houses to every school that was abandoned, in the next five years, those schools would be completed. So, the idea of considering only those which are at 80 per cent complete and ignore those that are less than 80 per cent complete will no longer be the case because all the schools must progress equally.

 

Madam Speaker, to do that, it is necessary for us to have a data capturing system so that we can know the stage where each school is.

 

Madam Speaker, this information will be a basis for informed and equitable resource allocation during the formulation of the ensuing budget spending policies.

 

Madam Speaker, it is, therefore, imperative to urgently collect this data for informed decision-making not only in the Central Government, but also at the local authority and constituency levels. To this effect, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning and the Ministry of Education, with the support of constituency offices, will embark on a countrywide school data collection exercise starting this month of April, 2022.

 

Madam Speaker, as we retreat to our various constituencies today, I request all hon. Members of Parliament to take advantage of the upcoming break to assist the Government in this exercise. We are all urged, in this regard, to successfully collect the required school data to form a baseline for equitable resource allocation to various schools in our constituencies and for correct Government programmes and projects.

 

Madam Speaker, it is important that hon. Members of Parliament get involved in this exercise because they know their areas better than anyone else. They know where all the schools, including community ones, are. They also know where the abandoned schools are. They know the schools which were declared high schools, yet no infrastructure was provided. This is why it is important that hon. Members of Parliament obtain the most accurate information. I say this out of personal experience. At the time we were trying to see which schools had been abandoned, I looked at the list and a high school that was abandoned in my constituency was not appearing. This is why it is important that hon. Members of Parliament get involved in the collection of this data.

 

Madam Speaker, a copy of the data collection template for each constituency will be shared with hon. Members of Parliament before the end of business today. It will be on their – what do you call them?

 

Hon. Members: Ipads.

 

Dr Musokotwane: Soft copies will be on their iPads for capturing the data that we are looking for. I expect that the information to be collected and submitted to this office via email will reach us by 30^th April, 2022; in other words, by the end of this month.

 

Madam Speaker, going forward, the Government’s policy is to ensure that hon. Members of Parliament actively participate in this exercise. I am sorry to say, but for those who will not take this exercise seriously, it means that information on schools in their constituencies which are abandoned; have no teachers; and have no facilities will not be captured properly and they risk losing out.

 

Madam Speaker, in the 2022 Budget, there is some money available towards making progress on schools that were abandoned in the last ten years. There is some money for progress so that we put up more infrastructure.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, in the 2022 Budget, there will be some money for those schools which were declared high schools while there were no high school classes or teachers’ houses. So, there is some money for that.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Musokotwane: We will move gradually. The intention is that each and every one of these schools gets money. The story of saying that we only attend to those which are above 80 per cent is dead. We are not going to take that approach.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: They have heard.

 

Hon. Government Members: It is very clear!

 

Mr Sampa rose.

 

Hon. Government Members: Ah

 

Laughter

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: No questions? We will move on.

 

CRIME SITUATION ON THE CHIBULUMA ROAD

 

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to address the House and the nation at large on the point of order raised by Hon. Binwell Mpundu, Member of Parliament for Nkana Constituency on the crime situation on the Chibuluma Road.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government, in the recent past, has noted with great concern that some criminals have been attacking and stealing from unsuspecting motorists driving on the Chibuluma and Mindolo roads. Criminals are taking advantage of motorists who are forced to move at a very slow speed due to the deplorable state of the road.

 

In the fourth quarter of 2020, Kitwe District Police recorded eighty-four cases along the some road as compared to twenty-five cases recorded during the same period in 2021. This year, five cases have been recorded and six suspects have so far been arrested.

 

Madam Speaker, to curb the criminal acts on the stretch of the Mindolo and Chibuluma roads, the following are some of the measures being put in place:

 

1. enhanced intelligence gathering;
2. increased surveillance patrols along the stretch and surrounding communities;
3. increased sensitisation of communities on maintaining law and order; and
4. engagement of communities on the implementation of law and order activities through neighbourhood watch groups. Further, the Zambia Police Service is engaging the communities with the view of deploying officers to the community police post in the area.

 

Madam Speaker, let me appeal to the general citizenry to report any suspicious persons or grouping to the Zambia Police Service. Let us work together to curb criminal activities in the area. I can assure hon. Members that the days of the criminals operating in that area are numbered, as the Zambia Police is putting requisite measures to curb criminal activities.

 

Madam Speaker, with regard to the Chibuluma Road, the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development informed this august House in October 2021 that the rehabilitation of the road was planned for as a variation under the Zambia Township Roads Project. This project has since stalled due to fiscal constraints being faced by the Government. However, the New Dawn Government will endeavour to source alternative financing to ensure that the condition of the road is improved.

 

Madam Speaker, I also encourage the hon. Member of Parliament, Hon. Mpundu, to engage the private sector to consider the rehabilitation of the road as part of corporate social responsibility in the area.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

THE DEATH OF LUBELELE BASIC SCHOOL HEAD TEACHER ON 23^RD MARCH, 2022 IN MITETE DISTRICT

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to issue a ministerial statement on the point of order raised by Hon. Misheck Mutelo, Member of Parliament for Mitete Constituency, on the death of the Lubelele Basic School Head Teacher on 23^rd March, 2022, in Mitete Constituency.

 

Madam Speaker, on 23^rd March, 2022, the Lukulu Police Station received a report of murder in Mitete District. Facts of the matter are that Mr Christopher Jonathan Chinyama, aged fifty, head teacher at Lubelele Basic School was murdered by unknown persons who were armed with an unknown type of firearm, a machete and an axe. The incident happened on 23^rd March, 2022, around 1800 hours at the school ground during a social football match.

 

Madam Speaker, on 24^th March, 2022, the Zambia Police Officers, accompanied by the able hon. Member of Parliament for Mitete Constituency, Hon. Misheck Mutelo, visited the scene of the crime where it was discovered that the body of the deceased had multiple fatal cuts as an axe and machete were used by the suspects in the act.

 

The body of the deceased was later deposited at the Lukulu District Mortuary.

 

Madam Speaker, on 27^th March, 2022, a post-mortem was conducted, and preliminary results indicated that the deceased died from loss of blood due to injuries sustained. He has since been buried at Kawaya in Lukulu. The police have instituted investigations into the matter to bring the culprits to book.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government regrets the incidence and would like to send a message of condolences to the family of the deceased head teacher, Lubelele Basic School and the whole community in the constituency.

 

Madam Speaker, let me take this opportunity to wish the Lubelele Basic School community a quick recovery from this very sad incident.

 

Madam Speaker, the incident is a violation of human rights and the sanctity of life, which should be condemned by all Zambians. The New Dawn Government considers peace and security key to the fostering of sustainable socio-economic development in the country.

 

Madam Speaker, to avoid the recurrence of such incidences, the Zambia Police Service, working together with other wings of the Government, has put in place, among others, the following measures:

 

1. enhanced intelligence gathering;
2. increased surveillance patrols in Mitete and all other areas across the country;
3. increased sensitisation of communities on co-existence and respect for human life;
4. promoting the importance of forming neighbourhood watch groups; and
5. continuous engagement of traditional leaders on security matters.

 

Madam Speaker, let me assure the good people of Mitete Constituency, the hon. Member of Parliament, teachers, other Government workers and those yet to be deployed through the good programmes of the United Party for National Development (UPND) to Mitete District and the nation at large that the Zambia Police Service, working together with other wings of the Government, will continue maintaining law and order in the nation.

 

Madam Speaker, let me take this opportunity to appeal to the general citizenry to report any suspicions persons to the Zambia Police Service. Further, I wish to warn perpetrators of crime that the law will soon catch up with them.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the two ministerial statements given by the hon. Minister.

 

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, I wish to put on record that I will not stop bringing the matter of the Chibuluma Road before the House for as long as we do not find an immediate solution for it. I note the efforts highlighted by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security regarding security measures that will be put in place in the area. I hope we will see these measures implemented now.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security is obviously responding on behalf of his counterpart at the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development. This is a matter that has been ruled by the House as being of urgent importance. It borders on the lives of people and requires urgent action. We have heard an announcement that tenders have been given to build roads using public-private partnerships (PPPs) elsewhere. Is it so hard to consider giving priority to that stretch of 7.8 km using a PPP, where others will come in with funds? I know of some people who have funds and would commit to do that road.

 

Madam Speaker, since we do not have money now as the Government, to can engage others who have money on a PPP arrangement so that we can address this issue that is making criminals take advantage of the area. Is it so hard? We have seen that in other areas, partners have been engaged on a PPP basis. Why should we not engage partners to work on this road on a PPP arrangement?

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I am now speaking as chief engineer, and not as chief policeman.

 

Madam Speaker, I have noted the question that has been raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Nkana. I just want to assure him that the Government of the Republic of Zambia, through the able hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, is doing everything possible to ensure that this stretch of the road is done. We are going to use our own resources to rehabilitate the road.

 

Madam Speaker, I also want to inform the hon. Member that a public-private partnership (PPP) for that stretch of road is not viable and would not be in the interest of the people in that area to go that route.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government, through the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development has decided to terminate the contract which was given by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government wherein the cost of doing 1 km of that stretch was US$1.5 million. We think that that amount of money was not in the interest of the people of Kitwe and the nation. We think that we can do that road at a lesser cost and for the benefit of the people. Please, be assured that that stretch is a very important road in Kitwe as it is the route that most transporters use when they transport copper. It is a very important road and we will do it.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Madam Speaker, through the hon. Minister who stated that he is the chief engineer today, to the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, when is the police station, which was started seven years ago and stalled till date, going to be finished so that we can have police officers stationed in Mitete?

 

Madam Speaker, this is now directed at the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. The border of Zambia and Angola at Washishi is also porous. On the Floor of this House in 2011, we were promised that immigration blocks and offices would be built and officers posted to Washishi, but there is nothing to date.

 

Madam Speaker, this is the New Dawn, what message does the hon. Minister have for the people of Mitete?

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. Mutelo for that question. Indeed, it is a New Dawn.

 

Madam Speaker, I have no doubt that Hon. Mutelo listened attentively to the statement that was issued by our New Dawn hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning where he indicated that it is no longer the policy of the Government to consider only projects that are above 80 per cent.

 

Madam Speaker, pursuant to that review, the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development has assured me that they are looking at all those projects under the Government which were started sometime back and have been abandoned so that we can start to work on those projects and complete them for the benefits of the people of Zambia.

 

Further, hon. Mutelo will remember that the fallen Government used to tell us that all new districts that were created would be given the requisite facilities such as police stations, hospitals and schools. Mitete is one of the new districts that should have been accorded the facilities as promised. Unfortunately, it was discriminated against and the facilities were not provided. Even under my ministry, I would state without fear of any contradiction that in the Western Province and the North-Western Province, no police house or police station was done by the fallen PF or the late Ruling Party.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mwiimbu: We are in the process of reviewing projects that are in the interest of the nation to be provided in those areas which we tend to think were discriminated against. We are looking at those issues seriously. With the support of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, we will embark on those projects. The hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development is here and he is seated next me to advise me so that I do not make a mistake as a Chief Policeman.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam, I thank you.

 

Hon. Member: Bruce Lee tapompele.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I rise pursuant to Standing Order 206. I know that as hon. Members of Parliament, we are all excited to go back to our constituencies. I do not know whether the hon. Member for Solwezi East will be allowed to be in this House, although he wants to go the constituency, without a neck tie.

 

I seek your ruling, Madam Speaker.

 

Laughter         

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Actually, I cannot see him from here.

 

Hon. UPND Members: He has!

 

The First Deputy Speaker: Order! He has a neck tie? I am told that the hon. Member has a neck tie.

 

Laughter

 

The First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

My ruling is that if the hon. Member for Solwezi East has no neck tie or scarf, he will leave the House to go and dress appropriately and join us later.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, allow me to say this to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security: What happened in Mitete is sad, but the language of trying to separate some provinces because we think a house for a policeman was built is not good. For instance, I come from the Eastern Province, but this Government you are saying –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

We will continue after Lunch.

 

_______

 

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER

 

LUNCH ARRANGEMENTS

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I wish to inform the House that the following arrangements have been made for lunch today, Friday, 1^st April, 2022. Lunch break will be from 1300 hours to 1415 hours. The House will resume sitting at 1430 hours. Hon. Members will have their lunch in the restaurant here, at Parliament Buildings. Members of staff and ministries officials will have their lunch at the Members’ Motel. Transport to and from the Members’ Motel for staff and Ministries officials will be available at the foyer by the main entrance to Parliament Buildings. Further, lunch for hon. Members and Ministries officials will be provided courtesy of the Hon. First Deputy Speaker.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: May I urge all hon. Members to be punctual and request the party whips to ensure that the quorum is formed at 1430 hours.

 

Thank you.

 

Business was suspended from 1255 hours until 1430 hours.

 

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

Mr Menyani Zulu: Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity.

 

Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I was saying that the hon. Minister was looking at developmental issues in this other – Sorry.

 

Madam Speaker, permit me to just give a piece of advice. It can be taken or not, as I ask the question. On this language of saying this was done this side, but not that side, basically, in the Eastern Province, nothing was done. So, when the hon. Minister mentions some provinces, he should make sure he adds the Eastern Province.

 

Madam Speaker, the question to the hon. Minister is: The ministries of Education and Health have gotten Treasury permission to employ additional teachers and additional health workers. Looking at what is happening in Mitete and other districts across the country, and even in my own district, where people are being killed by the so called game rangers anyhow, when will the Ministry Home Affairs and Internal Security employ additional police officers to go and man these areas where we have problems? The hon. Minister and I know that the ratio of police officers to our population is very bad. Does the ministry have any plans to have additional police officers?

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that question, but before I proceed to answer it, I would like to sympathise with his sentiments. Hon. Minister you –

 

Hon. Member: He is not a Minister!

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, order!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: He is the hon. Minister for Nyimba.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mwiimbu: I sympathise with the hon. Member for Nyimba. His hon. Colleagues, who were in the PF who hailed from the Eastern Province, on the Floor of this House, used to say that the Eastern Province was heaven on earth because there was so much development in that area.

 

Mr Menyani Zulu: Question!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: However, to our surprise, when the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development toured the province, he actually got so shocked that that day he could not sleep for he could not believe that that was the area which was said to be one of the most developed under the PF when in actual fact it was one of the most under-developed. We sympathise with the hon. Member.

 

Madam Speaker, as the New Dawn Administration, we are not going to segregate any area of this country. As the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development indicated when he toured the Eastern Province; he will ensure that developmental projects that were abandoned by the PF are completed by the New Dawn Administration.

 

Madam Speaker, let me assure the hon. Member that we will not discriminate. Wherever there is need for development, it will be taken there. As the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning indicated this afternoon, when we are looking at developmental projects, we will not go by the policy of the PF where they would only complete those projects which were 80 per cent complete. We will ensure that wherever there is need, if resources are available, we develop those areas.

 

Madam Speaker, coming to the issue which the hon. Member raised, we are aware of the need to employ more police officers, army personnel and Zambia Air Force (ZAF) personnel, but that will depend on the authority that will be granted to us by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. There is need, and whenever we are given that authority, we assure you we will inform this House that we are going to employ policemen. However, note that when we recruit, we shall go down to the constituency, to ensure that every constituency benefits from the recruitment. For we believe as the UPND …

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: …Administration that every part of Zambia deserves a share in the developmental aspirations of the country.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chala (Chipili): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the statement. The question of the Chibuluma Road was brought before this august House I think somewhere in November and, at that time, the hon. Minister stated that we were using the PF Budget and that we wait for their Budget for 2022. We are now in 2022 using their Budget. We were told that when they start using their Budget, we would stop talking.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Chala: I want the Government to fix the Chibuluma Road because we are using their Budget so that we stop talking …

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Chala: …about Chibuluma. They have accepted that they are going to fix it, but have not given us the timeframe so that international and local transporters are comforted. So, when is the Government going to move in and fix that road with local resources since it has  acknowledged.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you so much for the question though I doubt it is part of the ministerial statement. However, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security can answer.

 

Mr Milupi: Hammer!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the issue that has been raised by the hon. Member and your guidance that it was not part of my ministerial statement, but I want to inform the hon. Member that we, as the UPND, do not believe in the UPND or PF budget. We believe in a Government Budget…

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: …because hon. Members are the ones who approved the Budget. They sat in this House, scrutinised and approved it. If they did not approve money for the Chibuluma Road, they should not blame this side; they should blame themselves because they are part and parcel of the approval process of budgeting in this House. So, the Budget which we have is not a UPND Budget. The UPND Budget is done at the UPND Secretariat for the party.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: The budget which we are utilising here, is the Budget for the Republic of Zambia which he, as an hon. Member of Parliament, participated in.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Now, the issue which the hon. Member is trying to raise, if I interpret it, is talking about the Government Budget, but we have given him an answer that we are not going to go the PPP way. We are going to use resources which have been budgeted for as contingency within the Budget. The hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development has indicated that they are going to work on the Chibuluma Road because it is a very important route that international transporters use. So, we are going to use local resources. The hon. Member should, please, take note that we are concerned.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

YOUTH SKILLS EMPOWERMENT PROGRAMME

 

The Minister of Technology and Science (Mr Mutati): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to render a ministerial statement to this august House on the Youth Skills Empowerment Programme. This statement serves as an update on the strides and progress the Ministry of Technology and Science has recorded in the implementation of this programme.

 

Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government recognises the fundamental position the youth occupy in our country and, as such, is committed to creating opportunities for jobs and general empowerment through entrepreneurship. As the country is, by now, aware, the Government, in its effort to have an inclusive development process, has devolved a number of functions and resources to the local level in order to empower communities through the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

 

Madam Speaker, the objective of this programme is to prepare our youth for opportunities that will arise out of this policy pronouncement. The primary objective of the youth skills empowerment programme is to equip our youths with skills that are in line with the services and general development needs in their constituencies. The programme is meant to:

 

1. empower the youths with hands-on and lifelong skills as they constitute a large proportion of the country’s productive age group; and
2. address the challenge of limited access to education and skills development, limited access to factors of production, including finance and empowerment opportunities;

 

Madam Speaker, youths who successfully complete training in their respective programmes after three months of training in selected Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training (TEVET) institutions will graduate with certificates of competence. These certificates will be recognised for registration with respective professional and regulatory bodies such as the Engineering Institute of Zambia (EIZ) and the National Council for Construction (NCC).

 

This will enable them to not only participate in public tenders, but also to contribute effectively to economic development.

 

Madam Speaker, further, the youths who undergo this programme will also be equipped with some basic financial literacy and book keeping skills through business clinics that will provide relevant information on conducting business.

 

Madam Speaker, to kick-start the initiative, a national launch was held on 25^th February, 2022, at the Chipata Trades Training Institute in the city of Chipata, Eastern Province, where I delivered the key note address on behalf of the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr. Hakainde Hichilema –

 

Hon. Government Members: The Commander-In-Chief.

 

Mr Mutati: Indeed, the Commander-In-Chief.

 

Mr Muchima: Correct.

 

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that the national launch was preceded by a pilot programme that my ministry, through the Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training Authority (TEVETA) launched in Chongwe on 30^th December, 2021. In consultation with the area hon. Member of Parliament, fifty youths were recruited in Chongwe and these are being imparted with skills in bricklaying, metal fabrication, plumbing and pipe fitting, carpentry and joinery and electrical installation.

 

Madam Speaker, these skills were identified as priority in the Chongwe Constituency to support infrastructure projects that will be rolled out through the CDF.

 

Madam Speaker, the first cycle which was launched in the Eastern Province has begun with TEVETA signing training contracts with eighty-eight training institutions from all the ten provinces to deliver training across the country. It is anticipated that 7,100 youths drawn from 100 constituencies will be trained during the first phase commencing on 1^st May, 2022.

 

Madam Speaker, hon. Members of this august House and the country at large may wish to note that the selection of the first 100 constituencies is premised on prioritising those constituencies that are clustered around the eighty-eight trades training institutes to ensure easy accessibility. To this effect, a schedule of the constituencies will be shared with hon. Members of Parliament very soon.

 

Madam Speaker, the next cycle of the skills training for youth empowerment programme will commence in August 2022 when the remaining fifty-six constituencies will be taken on board. The plan is to deliver skills that are in line with the services and general development needs in all the 156 constituencies.

 

Madam Speaker, my ministry, through this programme, plans to train, at least, 10,000 youths by December 2022. These efforts are meant to unlock the untapped potential of our youths through the provision of practical skills that will make them productive. To demonstrate my Government’s commitment to this programme, a total of K2I.2 million has been invested in the first cycle.

 

Madam Speaker, it is gratifying that the CDF has set out clear guidelines in terms of allocation to projects. For the benefit of record, 60 per cent has been allocated to community projects, 20 per cent has been allocated to youth and women empowerment programmes while 20 per cent has been allocated to secondary schools, boarding and skills development bursaries. This is the opportunity that our programme intends to leverage on and ensure that our youth have appropriate skills.

 

Madam Speaker, the eligibility criteria for the beneficiaries will be as stipulated in the constituency development fund committee under the skills development section.

 

Madam Speaker, these youths will be presented for recruitment in their respective training institutions. The respective constituencies are expected to meet the logistical costs of the selected candidates through proceeds of the CDF component on skills training.

 

Madam Speaker, to ensure quality of training, TEVETA has included some performance standards in the training contracts which will be regularly monitored to ensure compliance. This is important so that our youths develop the necessary competencies that will not only make them productive, but also competitive.

 

Madam Speaker, this programme is being implemented in collaboration with different ministries and Government agencies. While my ministry is co-ordinating policy and implementation of this programme, the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, through the CDF, is supporting the youths with a bursary to meet their logistics and boarding expenses. Similarly, the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development, through the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Programme has also set aside funds to support youth entrepreneurship. The Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts, the Ministry of Agriculture and the Ministry of Finance and National Planning are all providing the necessary support to make it easy for the youth to transition from the training centre to the world of work

 

Madam Speaker, I am aware that there are some concerns from the constituencies that may have not been reached by the programme in the first cycle. I want to assure them that in the next cycle, commencing in August 2022, they will be covered. Please, note that we have tried to limit the number of learners per training institution. This is because we need to ensure that the training remains practical and hands-on.

 

Madam Speaker, this programme demonstrates our commitment to empowering our youths with skills and competencies that will make them productive and competitive so that they can contribute to the economic development of this great nation.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutati: It is critical to empower our youths because it is the youths that must provide the requisite labour for the production of goods and services to take effect. Youths are a critical mass of our population. Their action or inaction can either develop or destroy the fabric of our society.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister.

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, ...

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mung’andu: I can see that the people on your right are very happy to see me make a follow-up question.

 

Madam Speaker, thanks to the Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) President –

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mubika: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Ah! So, hon. Members on your right do not know that he is their Alliance partner?

 

Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister, who also happens to be the President for the MDC and a United Party for National Development (UPND) Alliance member for that wonderful statement, though I was a bit at sea. The hon. Minister repeatedly talked about youths in the statement and yet the Kaputa man there, (pointing at the Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts) who is supposed to be handling youths’ matters, is quiet. It is very confusing, Madam.

 

Madam Speaker, from the hon. Minister’s statement, I did not hear him talk about the completion of the skills development centres left under construction by the previous Government, where our youths should be able to acquire skills before they are given –

 

Mr Muchima: Interjected

 

Mr Mung’andu: These are facts – before they are even given that component. Otherwise, they will end up sharing that money. Is the hon. Minister considering to, at least, modernise those youth skills development centres with technical – I know he is the hon. Minister of Transport and Communication.

 

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, he is the Minister of Technology and Science. Is he considering…

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, Order, Hon. Member!

 

Mr Mung’andu: ...equipping these youth development centers with technological equipment so that the youth should be able to apply for the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) which we are going to approve very soon as members of the CDF committees? Is the Government also first considering completing the training institutions so that our youths can acquire the much-needed skills?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order! Just for correction, he is the hon. Minister of Technology and Science.

 

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, as the hon. Minister of Technology and Science, …

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutati: …let me say that we have a critical component under TEVETA for the delivery of skills and competences and we have a number of institutions such the Chipata Skills Training Centre that are designed to deliver skills. This is a variety of skills, including bricklaying, carpentry, agriculture and, indeed, many other skills. The reason we lunched from Chipata was the infrastructure level and when the hon. Member visits, he will find that boarding facilities are at 89 per cent completion and they are such quality that they fit to be called a university. That is our level of seriousness.

 

Madam Speaker, the second level is for us to be able to put modern equipment in the twenty-eight trades training institutes across Zambia.

 

Madam Speaker, at the third level, we have also trained the trainers so that they are able to deliver competence in the training programme. When we launched in Chipata, 200 youths were recruited into various basic skills of bricklaying, carpentry, electrical, plumbing and pipe-laying. This is an opportunity where the youths were seen on their faces saying, “Hooray, a New Dawn Government!” This has never happened before.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutati: The criteria for picking the youths was not so much whether one had academic qualifications or not. It was just that one had the physique and a working brain; that is all. That is all one needs to lay a brick. Within a week of that programme, the youths were able to demonstrate capability that they will be good bricklayers.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member may wish to note that in Chipata, we were with the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts. This Government works as one system. In his ministry, he also has empowerment funds, apart from the CDF, that will be applied to the youths in Chipata when they finish their training programme.

 

Madam Speaker, they will need basic tools to be self-employed or to form co-operatives when they finish their training programme. So, the hon. Minister of Youth, Spot and Arts plays a critical role to ensure that he provides the funds so that when the youths finish their training they will be able to start work.

 

Madam Speaker, in Chipata, we were also with the hon. Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development. He elaborated that under his ministry and through the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC), he has a loan facility at very low interest rates that can be accessed by the youths once they finish training.

 

Madam Speaker, all the hon. Ministers, including the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, who were present, demonstrated how the CDF can be applied.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Agriculture who was also around, had a focus on agricultural skills, and those are being delivered.

 

Madam Speaker, the point we are making is that we are, indeed, ready. There are no gaps. We are ready to deliver skills to the youths so that they are able to be employed; create co-operatives; and take advantage of the opportunity of the funds under the CDF. As we have said, 60 per cent of the CDF funds are for schools, clinics, bridges and so on and forth. So, the assurance to the Acting Leader of the Opposition from Kumawa is that…

 

Hon. Member: That is the word.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mutati: …that let us aggregate our efforts and assure that our youths do not only get the benefit of the CDF, but are equipped with the skill and competence for them to be able to deliver development at constituency level. That is the intention.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr J. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, although the hon. Minister has sliced into my concern, I still want to find out whether there is a distinction between his ministry and the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts, especially since the former recently held a youth indaba. Can the hon. Minister categorically state what programmes are going to sit in his ministry and what programmes are going to sit in the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts so that we can have a distinction between the two to avoid confusing our youth.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, for Luanshya, we have the Luanshya Trades Training Institute that has been appointed to deal with Roan and Luanshya constituencies. What the hon. Member should do, as he gets back, is ensure that he participates in the selection of the youth to be trained in these various skills. That is the first point. We will be ready for him from 1^st May. I think he should focus on the fact that his youth are getting the skills and competencies. That should be his main focus.

 

Madam Speaker, he asked a question about the difference. We have said that this Government works as one total unit. We are maximising resources from across the Government to ensure that skills are delivered. For example, my colleague from the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts has, within his programmes, a graduate empowerment programme which is not available under TEVETA or under my ministry. The Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts has a programme to deliver tankers which is not available in my ministry. Does the hon. Member understand?

 

Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts has the Tertiary Education Community Scholarship Programme in which it plans to support 500 students per province per year. An additional 5,000 will be eligible for this program. That programme is not in my ministry. What the youth out there are concerned about is the delivery of the Government, and not who delivers. So, I deliver the competencies and the training and he provides me with the empowerment resources and other facilities. When we combine we have a complete youth.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, I want to hover out the confusion that may exist in the hon. Member’s mind. Let it evaporate because there is no confusion in this issue. It is a straightforward issue where you look at the output, which is that your youth are trained. The New Dawn Government is delivering as one system maximising on all the various Government ministries and agencies to deliver a competent youth.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr C. Mpundu (Chembe): Madam Speaker, training these youths is one thing, but for them to tap into the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is another. I say so because to tap into this CDF initiative, enterprises need to be legalised.

 

Madam Speaker, I want the hon. Minister to put on the lenses of a rural constituency like Chembe. What is his ministry and other line ministries doing to have the Patents and Company Registration Agency (PACRA), the Zambia Public Procurement Authority (ZPPA), the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) and all those regulatory authorities or institutions that legalise enterprises support the youth so that they can participate after he has trained them? I say this because our youth in rural constituencies have started being exploited by being charged exorbitant prices for the registration of their enterprises.

 

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, we made reference to the first bunch that we trained in Chongwe. Last week, we held a business clinic. At the business clinic, we had the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA), the National Council for Construction (NCC) CEEC, the National Youth Development Council (NYDC) and various other institutions. The aim of the business clinic was to give them knowledge so that after they graduate, they can register either as a business, as PACRA was there, or as a cooperative, as the National Youth Development Council was there, and they were told how to do it. So, we are not leaving anything to chance. We are not chancers.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, science and technology is key to attaining high economic growth and I think that is how the Asian tigers such as South Korea, Malaysia and Singapore have developed. My worry is that we are focusing more on traditional skills such as bricklaying, carpentry and tailoring. Is the hon. Minister working closely with other stakeholders, especially the Ministry of Education, to promote mathematics, science and information communication technology (ICT) so that our youth can be empowered? I believe that way, we will be moving at a higher state.

 

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, the reality on the ground is that there are a number of categories of youth who do not have opportunities, including those that have finished Grade 12. They are many. So, we are saying that with the limited capacity that we have under TEVETA, let us make sure that those who do not have the opportunity now can be equipped with a skill for them to be able to make a living. 

 

Madam Speaker, we have other TEVETA programmes for various skills development in auto mechanics and other complicated issues in technology. There are various forms and levels of training that we are giving to the youth depending on the category they are in. It is a complete package. Nobody is left behind. Everybody will find room because my father’s house has many rooms.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Speaker, in Lundazi, we have a trades school that is complete. I visited it with the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development. It can cater for Chama, Chasefu, Lundazi and Lumezi. Our youth in those areas can benefit from that institute, which is 95 per cent complete. Is the hon. Minister considering equipping Lundazi Trades School so that it can help cater for these other neighbouring constituencies I have mentioned?

 

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, our strategy is very clear: deliver infrastructure, which we have delivered in Lundazi; the next is to deliver equipment, which we are delivering in Lundazi; and thirdly, to deliver the trainers, which we are delivering in Lundazi, and come 1^st May, we will be ready to deliver the skills.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you

 

UNTIMELY DEATH OF DR KABUNGO

 

The Minister of Youth, Sport and Art (Mr Nkandu): Madam Speaker, I want to thank you most sincerely for giving me this opportunity to make a statement to this august House and the Nation at large on the untimely death of Dr Kabungo.

 

Madam Speaker, on behalf of the Government, I wish to convey my heartfelt condolences to the Kabungo family, the football fraternity and the nation at large on the untimely and surprising death away from home of Dr Kabungo.

 

Madam Speaker, Dr Joseph Kabungo died on Tuesday, 29^th March, 2022, in Abuja, Nigeria. At the time of his death, Dr Kabungo, a Chongwe District Health Medical Director, was on official duty under the Confederation of African Football (CAF) and the Federation of International Football Association (FIFA). The late Dr Joseph Kabungo was a Doping Control Officer during the second leg final qualifying round of the FIFA QATAR 2022 World Cup qualifier match between Nigeria and Ghana held in Abuja in Nigeria.

 

Madam Speaker, the Central Government of the Republic of Zambia, in liaison with the Zambian High Commission in Nigeria, has been informed that the late Dr Joseph Kabungo died after collapsing in the tunnel as he was making his way to the doping control room at the end of the match, contrary to social media reports that Dr Kabungo died in a stampede by fans at the stadium.

 

Madam Speaker, in the meantime, FAZ, with the support of FIFA, has sponsored four doctors and three family members to travel to Nigeria to witness the post-mortem and the smooth repatriation of the remains of the late Dr Kabungo to Zambia with, obviously, the support of the Government of the Republic of Zambia under the leadership of His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia and the Commander-in-Chief of the Defence Forces.

 

Madam Speaker, the demise of Dr Kabungo is a great loss not just to the family and the football fraternity, but the nation at large. His contribution to the great game of football will forever be remembered.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister.

 

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that prompt response to the concerns of the people of Zambia, which we delivered to this House. The conclusion of how he died is being made before the post-mortem. How can we be sure? Further, has this Government engaged the Federation of International Football Association (FIFA)? What role will it play since he was working for it and was on duty? This cost that this Government is incurring, will FIFA refund it? What role will it play in this tragedy?

 

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, obviously, we are awaiting the post-mortem and these are just preliminary findings. After the post-mortem, we will be able to know the exact cause of death.

 

Madam Speaker, I just mentioned that FIFA and CAF are playing a critical role. As I talk now, it is facilitating the travel of four doctors and three family members to Nigeria. So, that is a step in the right direction and, of course, after the post-mortem, before the remains of Dr Kabungo can be brought back to Zambia, we will be able to confer with it and CAF, and will let the nation know.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, indeed, Bruce Lee tapompele iyo.

 

Laughter

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Meaning?

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, meaning, he was not a giant and he never had muscles, but he was equal to the task.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I had a personal relationship with Dr Kabungo, may his soul rest in peace. The response by the hon. Minister is saying cardiac arrest when in videos that are circulating all over, the man being stamped upon is our own brother and a citizen of Zambia. How can we conclude that it is cardiac arrest? Is the hon. Minister’s response trying to shield our diplomatic ties with the People’s Republic of Nigeria?

 

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, when we are giving these statements, I think hon. Members of Parliament need to pay attention. I said, and I repeat, that the preliminary report is suggesting that it was a cardiac arrest. I did not end there. I said there is need for us to send four doctors so that they are present when the post-mortem is being done. So, they will be able to tell us, if really what we were told is not correct. So, let the hon. Member wait for the post-mortem.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

_______

 

BILL

 

FIRST READING

 

THE BANK OF ZAMBIA BILL, 2022

 

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Bank of Zambia Bill No. 5 of 2022. The objects of the Bill are as follows:

 

1. to provide for the additional functions, operations and management of the Bank of Zambia;
2. to provide for the composition of the Board of Directors of the Bank of Zambia and provide for its functions;
3. to provide for the establishment of the Monetary Policy Committee and the Financial Stability Committee and provide for their functions;
4. to repeal and replace the Bank of Zambia Act of 1996; and
5. to provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on National Security, Trade and Labour Matters. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House in due course. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

 

Thank you.

 

______

 

MOTION

 

REPORT OF THE PARLIAMENTARY SELECT COMMITTEE APPOINTED TO SCRUTINISE THE MINISTERIAL APPOINTMENT OF MR MATO SHIMABALE, MRS BERNADETTE CHILUFYA MWABA PHIRI, BISHOP JOSEPH SHAPELA KAZHILA, MS OPHELIA NYAMBE, MR NCHIMUNYA HACHANDI, MS JACQUELINE CHISHIMBA, MR DANTE CHARLES SAUNDERS, MS JACQUELINE MILAMBO KABETA, AND MR JACK KALALA, TO SERVE AS DIRECTORS OF THE ZAMBIA NATIONAL BROADCASTING CORPORATION (ZNBC) BOARD

 

Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Parliamentary Select Committee appointed to scrutinise the ministerial appointment of Mr Mato Shimabale, Mrs Bernadette Chilufya Mwaba Phiri, Bishop Joseph Shapela Kazhila, Ms Ophelia Nyambe, Mr Nchimunya Hachandi, Ms Jacqueline Chishimba, Mr Dante Charles Saunders, Ms Jacqueline Milambo Kabeta, and Mr Jack Kalala, to serve as Directors of the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) Board, for the First Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on Thursday, 31^st March, 2022.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

 

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): I beg to second the Motion, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Samakayi: Madam, the appointment of the Directors of the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) Board, are made pursuant to Section 4 of the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation Act Chapter 157 of the Laws of Zambia, which provides as follows:

 

“4. (1) There is hereby constituted the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation Board which shall, subject to the provisions of this Act, perform the functions of the Corporation under this Act.

 

          (2) The Board shall consist of nine part-time directors appointed by the Minister subject to ratification by the National Assembly.”

 

Madam Speaker, the media plays a vital role in the promotion of good governance, democracy, upholding the rule of law, human rights, and development. Therefore, ZNBC as a public broadcaster plays a key role in that regard.

 

Madam, in view of this, the Committee resolved that only competent persons with unquestionable integrity, diligence, eminence, sound character and above all, committed to best public media practices, should be appointed as Directors of the ZNBC Board. The Committee, in this regard, requested memoranda from relevant State security agencies, professional bodies, other stakeholders, and the appointing authority. The witnesses who appeared before the Committee assisted it to assess the suitability of the nominees to serve in the positions they were being appointed.

 

Madam Speaker, the Committee noted with satisfaction that all the State security agencies indicated that there were no adverse security reports against any of the nominees. Additionally, the other stakeholders generally submitted that all the nominees were suitably qualified and possessed the requisite experience to be appointed as Directors of the ZNBC Board.

 

Madam Speaker, after its interaction with the nominees, the Committee noted with satisfaction that all the nominees possessed the requisite competence and experience to serve on the ZNBC Board of Directors. The Committee also noted that Article 259(1)(b) of the Constitution requires a person making an appointment to a public office to, where possible, ensure representation of the youth and persons with disabilities and 50 per cent of each gender.

 

Madam, the Committee observed that of the nine nominees, four are female and five are male. The Committee, therefore, commends the appointing authority for taking positive steps towards achieving gender parity. However, the Committee noted that Article 259(1)(c) has not been adhered to as there is no representation from the youth or persons with disabilities among the nominees. The Committee, therefore, urges the appointing authority to take this into consideration for future appointments.

 

Madam Speaker, the Committee also observed that the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation Act Chapter 154 of the Laws of Zambia does not provide for any minimum qualification for appointment as Director of the ZNBC Board. In that regard, the Committee recommends that the Act should be amended to provide for minimum qualifications for the position of director.

 

Madam Speaker, the Committee, after due and thorough consideration, analysis and evaluation of the rewritten and oral submissions presented to it by the witnesses and the interviews with the nominees, is of the view that all the nominees are suitably qualified and possess the requisite competencies to serve as Directors of the ZNBC Board. In view of this, the Committee recommends that this august House ratifies their appointment.

 

Madam, finally, the members of the Committee wish to place on record, their gratitude to you, for appointing them to serve on this Select Committee. The Committee is also thankful for the support, services and advice rendered to it by the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly during its deliberations. The Committee further wishes to thank the State security and investigative agencies, professional bodies and other stakeholder institutions for their oral and written submissions which assisted the Committee in making an informed recommendation to the House.

 

Madam Speaker, it is now my pleasure to call upon the House to ratify the appointment before it.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you. 

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

 

Ms Nyirenda: Now, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you most sincerely for giving me an opportunity to second this Motion. I also appreciate the mover for competently moving it.

 

Madam Speaker, the mover has sufficiently covered most of the notable points upon which your Committee urges the House to support the ratification of the nominees to serve as Directors of the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) Board.

 

Madam Speaker, in seconding the Motion, I reiterate your Committee’s observation that the nominees had both international qualifications and professional experience both in the public sector and some in Government.

 

Madam Speaker, as a Committee, we further observed that some of the nominees were too advanced in age. Although there is no age limit prescribed for the appointment of these directors, we were of the view that youths and the disabled could have been considered. I reiterate your Committee’s recommendation that the appointing authority should take time to consider the youths when making appointments in the future.

 

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, allow me to pay gratitude to the Chairperson of your Committee and fellow hon. Members for the mature deliberations which we had. I also appreciate the Office of the Speaker for having given us the opportunity.

 

Madam Speaker, with these very few remarks, I beg to second the Motion.

 

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, permit me to go straight to the names that the good people of Lumezi are objecting to. The voice of Lumezi and good people of Lumezi are saying they cannot accept to have Mr Jack Kalala serve on the board.

 

Madam Speaker, the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) is owned by the Zambians. Permit the voice of Lumezi to refer you to a judgement of 19^th June, 2020, by Justice G.C Chawatama, in which Mr Kalala had sued the Daily Nation Newspaper Ltd as first defendant, the Zambia Daily Mail Ltd as second defendant, Times Print Park Zambia Ltd as third defendant and Firm Zambezi Ltd as the fourth defendant.

 

Madam Speaker, of course, making submissions with utmost good faith on behalf of the good people of Lumezi, there are also speculations about Mr Kalala’s academic credentials. What good will he serve to a corporation that belongs to the Zambian citizens? When we go a little bit further to quote from The Mast Newspaper, he has shown that he is a political cadre.

 

Madam Speaker, permit the good people of Lumezi through you, to make submissions that will supersede our individual interests.

 

Madam Speaker, the good people of Lumezi and the voice of Lumezi have no objections to any other names that have been floated. However, the voice of Lumezi has taken a position to side with the people; we are saying no to Mr Jack Kalala’s appointment.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South) Madam Speaker, from the beginning, let me state that we are extremely disappointed with two appointments; the appointment of Mr Jack Kalala and that of Mr Dante Charles Saunders, and we will give reasons.

 

Madam Speaker, President Hakainde Hichilema is on record praising the youths of this country. The hon. Member and Minister for Youth, Sports and Arts is seated there comfortably on behalf of the people of Kaputa because of the youths. We, therefore, expected the President to appreciate the youths of Monze, Kalomo, Mazabuka, Mongu, Kaoma and Nkeyema who are qualified and suffered for him and the United Party for National Development (UPND). These are the ones who should take up these positions. However, we have not seen any youths appointed.

 

Madam Speaker, I have gone through this report and have seen the age of those nominees. How can the President bring someone who is in his 80s or 70s who is supposed to be resting? One would argue that probably, these people will bring experience. I will go further. We are very disappointed.

 

Clearly, hon. Colleagues, this shows that if they massage the Head of State, I can assure them that come 2026, I will be sitting right there where they are seated. If they do no tell him the truth, that Sir, this is wrong, you cannot do this, do not bring cadres, instead to everything he says, they jump and say: “Yes, Sir.” They can mark my words; in 2026, I will be seated there on the right and they know what that means.

 

Madam Speaker, these people are too old. In addition, the appointee should have considered the disabled. We have capable, qualified, young and differently abled – sorry for using the word disabled, – Zambians who should have been considered for these positions rather than some of these cadres we have seen.

 

Madam Speaker, in addition, these people are not even qualified.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam, we have young people who have studied journalism and mass communication who would add value to the Government and the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC). The Government should get it from me that it will not get anything because these people are not even qualified. I will start with Mrs Dante Charles Saunders and I quote:

 

“The nominee’s qualifications could not be authenticated as the nominee could not produce copies of his qualifications.”

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mung’andu: The President told us that he is raising the bar. Is this raising the bar, President Hakainde Hichilema?

 

Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mung’andu:   Youths of Zambia, is this the change you voted for?

 

Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

 

Mr Mung’andu: Okay. You are responding. I hope you are youths.

 

Laughter

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Leader of the Opposition, please, just concentrate on your debate.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, let me now talk about Mr Jack Kalala. I think President Hakainde Hichilema has a chance to develop this country. He should not fall into the trap of these recycled politicians, particularly, those who are well-connected and know the governance system. This is what I am seeing here. Actually, for Mr Jack Kalala, the report says:

 

“The nominee did not sit for the School Certificate Examinations due to financial constraints, which was very –

 

Hon. UPND Members: Where?

 

Mr Mung’andu: It is in the report. I am reading from the report.

 

Madam Speaker, what is even more confusing is that the report says his qualifications could not even be verified by the Zambia Qualification Authority (ZAQA). It was unable to verify the authenticity of the certificate he has. Come on! You should be serious, you people! I know the hon. Minister of Information and Media is not behind this. It is President Hakainde Hichilema.

 

Hon. UPND Members: No!

 

Mr Mung’andu: I know that Chushi Kasanda cannot do this. The hon. Minister of Information and Media cannot do this.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

 

Please, resume your seat.

 

Mr Mung’andu: I will go further if you want to challenge me.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

The direction you are heading to is provoking many people. You are bringing in people in a manner that is provoking some people. Can we be focused and let us debate the way we are supposed to debate in this honourable House. We are not fighting with each other. Your views are very important, but try to put them in a way that is acceptable in this House. You are the Leader of the Opposition …

 

Hon. UPND Members: Acting!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: … which is a very big status. Acting Leader of the Opposition, can you focus a bit and debate as an hon. Member who is in an honourable House. This is not a fight. We value your views. You may continue.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I thank you for your guidance.

 

Madam Speaker, these are national issues. We praised the Government for bringing freedom into the media sector. President Hakainde has done very well. For the first time, the ZNBC is able to cover even divergent views but it is not right to start bringing people who are not qualified when we have youths who are well-qualified.

 

Madam Speaker, I want something to sink into them. When our colleagues leave this august House, they should be able to go to the President. I promised President Hakainde Hichilema that I would give him effective and efficient checks and balances and that I would be doing that for his own good. As we speak, he is surrounded by praise singers.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

 

Mr Mung’andu: It is a fact. That is what happens to our leaders. So, let us speak. For us, these two people –

 

Madam Speaker, honestly, how do we even ratify someone who could not produce authenticated papers as the report says?

 

Hon. UPND Members: Which one?

 

Mr Mung’andu: I read here (report). The problem is that people receive documents and just keep them. They should read them.

 

Hon. Members: We read!

 

Mr Mung’andu: If you read, why should you ask to say, “Which one?”

 

Madam Speaker, it is our considered view that we will support these other nominees with excellent qualifications. There is one lady who has even Masters Degree in Mass Communication. That is the value we want. We thought that was the bar that President Hakainde Hichilema would raise. For the other two, we want him to listen because it is for his good and the good of the country.  He will come and appreciate later. Let him reconsider the appointment of Mr Jack Kalala and Mrs Dante Charles Saunders. He can read their curriculum vitae (CVs). In our opinion, they are not fit to sit on this board in terms of qualifications and experience. They do not have any experience.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

 

Mr Mung’andu: It is a fact. Age is also another issue. We want youthful people. Youths voted for President Hakainde Hichilema. It is high time he started recognising them by giving them ˗ We have powerful youths in the areas I have mentioned.

 

Madam Speaker, for us on your left, we are requesting the Government to object the ratification of these two individuals.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr E. J. Banda (Petauke Central): Madam Speaker, I want to thank you for giving me an opportunity to add my voice on behalf of the good people of Petauke to the Motion on the members we are electrifying today.

 

Laughter

 

Mr E. J. Banda: Madam Speaker, first of all, I want to congratulate the hon. Minister and also, appreciate the members we are electrifying today apart from –

 

Hon. Members: Electrifying!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Sampa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr E. J. Banda: Madam Speaker, the good people of Petauke do appreciate and they do not want to politicise everything.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr E. J. Banda: Kwasu tilabila kuti vawalima ndiye vaufuniko tola.

 

Laughter      

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What do you mean, hon. Member for Petauke Central?

 

Laughter

 

Mr J. J. Banda: You reap what you sow!

 

Laughter

 

Mr E. J. Banda: So, we should avoid saying that they are cadres because they were working.  So, if they were working, let them also benefit from where they were working.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr E. J. Banda: So, let us call a spade a spade.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr E. J. Banda: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Minister of Information and Media for everything, but in future, she should balance the list. In Zambia, there are youths. So, let us remove the mindset of saying youths are leaders of tomorrow. Let us groom them by including them on such lists so that they become part and parcel of the board. The hon. Minister should mix them with the old folks. She should also not forget people living with disabilities. We need to see people living with disabilities included so that they are part and parcel of Zambia.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr E. J. Banda: We are happy that the President is uniting this country, but we need to see to it that the persons with disabilities are part and parcel of us and that they are also at the same level with us in as far as leadership is concerned. 

 

Madam Speaker, the good people of Petauke and I would have been happy to see 30 per cent of people living with disability, 30 per cent of youths and women, and 10 per cent of old folks on this list.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr E. J. Banda: Madam Speaker,further, the list should have balanced and included people from all the corners of Zambia, the way the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is being distributed to all the corners of this country. This list should also have been balanced on tribal lines so that we can kill tribalism in Zambia. Let us help the President to kill tribalism and to unite the country.

 

Madam Speaker, with those few remarks, the good people of Petauke are saying that the list is good, but in future, let us be mindful and include those things which I have said.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Speaker, I know we are adjourning sine die today but we should not gloss over very important matters because we will be setting precedents that are not good for the country. We all want to adjourn, but we need to set the record straight.

 

Madam Speaker, I will not follow the route of the Acting Leader of the Opposition in the House as regards these appointments which I think were done by the hon. Minister of Information and Media and not the President.

 

Madam Speaker, let me declare interest on certain names. I used to play basketball with Mr Mato Shimabale, who was appointed to serve on the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) Board, and he is my friend, so, I declare interest. I also declare interest on Mr Nchimunya Hachandi because my wife’s name is Nchimunya.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, I would have questioned Mr Jack Kalala, but I declare interest because he is my old man.

 

Madam Speaker, Mr Daunte Charles Saunders is also my old man but we have to set the record straight. The report says the nominee’s qualifications could not be authenticated as the nominee could not produce copies of his qualifications, save for a letter from Embakwe School Plumtree explaining that the papers were lost during the liberation struggle.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, the Zambia Qualification Authority (ZAQA) – freedom fighter from the United National Independence Party (UNIP) – contacted the Zimbabwe Qualifications Authority to establish the status of Embakwe School Plumtree at the time and if its high school certificate could be acceptable in Zambia. Unfortunately, the ZAQA was unable to verify the qualification due to time constraints …

 

Mr Mung’andu: Or advisory role.

 

Mr Sampa: … or an advisory role. Since he went to Embakwe School Plumtree in Zimbabwe, he can go to Zimbabwe as an ambassador.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Sampa: That said, Madam Speaker, my last point is very important and it is non-partisan and patriotic in nature; it is about Zambia.

 

Madam Speaker, the history of Zambia is that before 1964, Zambia was actually two countries, North-Western Rhodesia and Northern Rhodesia. However, when Zambia was split in half, North-Western Rhodesia included the Southern, Western and North-Western provinces and Northern Rhodesia included Muchinga, Luapula, Northern and Eastern provinces, but after Independence, it became one.

 

Madam Speaker, one Member of Parliament predicated that for the United Party for National Democracy (UPND) to form Government, it needed to unite with the people from Northern Rhodesia and it united with them in 2021 and that is why the Vice-President is from Northern Rhodesia and the President is from North-Western Rhodesia, and that is what that hon. Member of Parliament meant. When they united, they formed Government except that that Member of Parliament used a metaphor and he said ‘marry each other’ and then people misinterpreted what he meant …

 

Interruptions

 

Mr E. J. Banda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Sampa: … but he meant that we should unite, and he knew what he was talking about.

 

Madam Speaker, the Patriotic Front (PF) Party on its ticket did not have people from the North-Western Rhodesia and Northern Rhodesia. The presidential candidate was from the Northern Rhodesia and the running mate was from Northern Rhodesia and we know what the results were. The important thing is whatever we do, we need to unite Zambia as one and this includes appointments. So, most of the boards are not reflecting a fifty-fifty representation. Even in 2026, a party whose ticket will include a presidential candidate and running mate from North-Western Rhodesia and Northern Rhodesia will win while that whose ticket will just take one side, eitherNorth-Western Rhodesia or Northern Rhodesia will lose.

 

Mr Samakayi: Like you!

 

Mr Sampa: Yes, like the PF. It is the truth. In whatever we do, we must unite as one. So, even in the boards – this board is full of people from North-Western Rhodesia.

 

Madam Fist Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Matero, I think you are confusing the people as you talking about Rhodesia because this is ‘One Zambia, One Nation’. We are looking at the current Zambia and not Southern Rhodesia and Northern Rhodesia.

 

Mr Sampa: Noted, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Let us not lose our people or think of the years back.

 

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, I take note of that but I told myself never to mention the word tribe because that is a very sensitive word. So, I was trying to be diplomatic. My appeal is that going forward, all the appointments in future should include every Zambian …

 

Mr Mung’andu: Be balanced.

 

Mr Sampa: …and be balanced. We should not use the errors that were made by previous Governments and the ones before them as justification. They are lessons to learn. Ultimately, what some people on the right would always say has come to pass. They were right.  All of us can learn from that and ensure that whatever we do, we unite the nation. We should not refer to past errors. If a Government was very wrong on tribe, let us not take the extreme left because two wrongs do not make a right. This is our country. We learn from errors and we should move –

 

Hon. UPND Members: Forward!

 

Mr Sampa: Is there not another word apart from that one?

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Sampa:… ahead.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, I wish to react a little bit on the Motion before us.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has made a wonderful presentation on this board and this is a very balanced board.

 

Hon. UPND Member: Yes!

 

Mr Munsanje: What we are looking for is performance and quality. We are not looking for the rhetoric of the Rhodesians, and that is behind us. There are experienced freedom fighters on the board who understand where this country is coming from and where it is going, because history teaches us where we are going.

 

Madam Speaker, the board is balanced and comprises of qualified and well-learnt men and women who understand broadcasting. As such, this House supports the appointment of this board. We are not going to be boggled down by processes of some qualifications that could not be obtained on time because this is a programme that is set. Indeed, the Zambia Qualifications Authority (ZAQA) did its job. The fact that it could not contact the school in Zimbabwe does not mean that the board member who has been selected is not able to perform his duty.

 

Madam Speaker, the nominated board members, Mr Saunders and Mr Kalala, are very well experienced and articulate men. They are on record and have spoken on the freedom of information in Zambia. Records are there and they have clearly advocated for the enactment of the Freedom of Information Act in Zambia, the freedom which the Patriotic Front (PF) is enjoying today.

 

Madam Speaker, the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) is able to cover members of the Patriotic Front (PF) Party. Somebody during the funeral of our late President, His Excellency, even asked me if ZNBC is now a PF broadcasting station because its members were being featured more than those from other parties. This shows that we are moving in the right direction, where freedom of information and access to information is guaranteed. Citizens are enjoying themselves and they can talk anyhow. Some of them even think they are in a classroom where they can teach everybody …

 

Mr Mubika: They are here.

 

Mr Munsanje:… and they are trying to teach this House.

 

Madam Speaker, that is not what we are looking for. We are looking for men of integrity.

 

Madam Speaker, the President talked about national values in this House, which we all support. Indeed, let us support His Excellency to deliver on the national values, so we can have an integrity kind of lifestyle. That lifestyle will only come when we have men of integrity like Mr Saunders, a man who could not be bought with a few coins of silver that the former regime was offering, or Mr Jack Kalala, a man who could not be bought with coins of silver which the PF was offering.

 

Madam Speaker, these men stood and fought for this country when everybody else was putting their tail down. They were the voice of reason in this country. So, I urge this House not to waste time to listen to detractors, men who do not understand what this country means.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member on the Floor, you may resume your seat.

 

Hon. Member, as you are debating, kindly keep it in mind that there are only hon. Members in this House and not detractors because they were sent by the people to come and represent them. So, whatever they say is not disturbing unless a point of order is raised or they breach the procedure.

 

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker –

 

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I rise on this point of order because it is like Standing Order 65 is becoming problematic for our hon. Colleagues. The hon. Member for Mbabala knows that the information that he says on the Floor of this House should not only be factual, but also verifiable. His way of debate is that of attacking very innocent hon. Members and he said that we do not know what we are doing. He has also insinuated that the Patriotic Front (PF) bought – is it Mr Jack Kalala?

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, he said that he could not be bought but was offered money. We do not know the value that the so-called Mr Jack Kalala has, apart from knowing him that he is an old man who served under the late President Mwanawasa and is unqualified.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, therefore, is the hon. Member in order to insinuate that these innocent faces, who are very new in Parliament and were never part of the past Executive, had the ability to buy a very old man –

 

Amb. Kalimi: Finished, no value.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Politically, I do not know even for them now.

 

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling before the Zambians out there start looking at us as human buyers. Can he produce evidence that the PF tried to buy honourable – is he honourable – …

 

Amb. Kalimi: He is not honourable. He cannot be honourable.

 

Mr Mung’andu: ... Mr Jack Kalala, a seventy-year old man that the United Party for National Development (UPND) has found value in, leaving out the youths.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: From where I am seated here listening attentively to the debate by the hon. Member for Mbabala, I did not hear him say this person or the Patriotic Front (PF) tried to buy this person. For me, it was a general statement and no names were mentioned. So, the hon. Member is actually not out of order, especially that he did not even mention any names of whoever tried to buy people.

 

The hon. Member for Mbabala may continue.

 

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, thank you so much for that wonderful ruling.

 

Madam Speaker, definitely, every citizen of Zambia deserves the opportunities that are available in the country and has value. It is, therefore, very wrong for the self-imposed Leader of the Opposition –

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Mbabala, resume your seat.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Mbabala, the Acting Leader of the Opposition did not impose himself. The Patriotic Front (PF) Party wrote to the National Assembly to inform us that in the absence of Hon. Mundubile, the hon. Member for Chama South would be the Acting Leader of the Opposition. So, can you withdraw that because he did not impose himself and you may continue.

 

Mr Munsanje: Thank you so much, Madam Speaker. I withdraw the aspect of self-imposed. However, I would like to lecture the Acting Leader of the Opposition that every citizen has value and there is no human being who is not valuable in this world. As such, he needs to learn as a leader now. He is the Acting Leader of the Opposition, so he needs to learn –

 

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, I am on the Floor –

 

Mr Mung’andu: He cannot be addressing me on the Floor of the House. It is against our Standing Orders. He is supposed to be addressing you.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Mbabala, you are hon. Members in this House. We are all here to learn, especially the procedures of this House. So, no one should be intimidated in this House. We are representing the Zambians, and let us look at each other as colleagues, not as enemies. We are representing our people who are actually listening right now. So, with that guidance in mind, let us not try to intimidate one another. In fact, it is good to respect one another so that the people out there respect all hon. Members in this House.

 

Hon. Member for Mbabala, you may continue, keeping in mind the guidance that I have offered.

 

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Madam Speaker, my point was that we ensure, as citizens that we respect our elders and every citizen recognising that every citizen has value and a right to participate in the affairs of this country.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, we cannot, therefore, say that these ones cannot participate because they are like this or like that. No. As such, I speak on behalf of my party and the people of Mbabala Constituency who sent me here that every citizen must be allowed to participate in the affairs of this country.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, the board that we are discussing, like I mentioned earlier, is very balanced and is in line with the national values that we promoting in this country.

 

Mr Mubika: We should respect elders!

 

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, we are looking at respecting elders and creating values in our lives and in our culture. That is the culture we have grown up with, where we respect elders. We do not turn a blind eye on elders and persons with disabilities or any other person. We see value in every human being. This country is only going to progress when citizens begin to live a lifestyle that supports the national values that we are talking about, as a country; national values of national unity and national values of integrity in our lifestyle. In Mbabala, we pledge that we are going to live by that. It is from that point I speak today that we support this board because it is balanced and brings experience, quality and integrity. It consists of freedom fighters; people who fought for the freedom of this country when our liberties were being curtailed by the previous regime.

 

Madam Speaker, with these remarks, I thank you.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I will allow three hon. Ministers.

 

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Madam Speaker, I read through this report and I listened very carefully to the critics of what the Committee settled with. I will begin by just quoting page 2 of the report on the procedure that was adopted and it reads:

 

“The media plays a vital role in the promotion of good governance, democracy, upholding the rule of law, human rights, and development. In this regard, the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) is a public broadcaster. It has a mandate to educate, inform and entertain the citizenry.”

 

Madam Speaker, there is nowhere where it refers to the age. Let me just pick up one or two points that pierced my heart from the debate, especially from the self-styled Acting Leader of the Opposition, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chama South…

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkombo: …who kept on humping on the issue of age. He called Mr Kalala as an old man. The only thing that is constant in life is change. Let us just watch the space of the hon. Members who is demonising people who are aged. It shall soon be coming to pass that he himself will be referred to as an old man. As a matter of fact, it will not be long that he will be referred to as an old man. I can sure him that all of us seated here may just be referred to as old men. We should watch the space.

 

Mr Kalimi interjected

 

Mr Nkombo: The greenhorn is responding.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, look at the composition of this nine-member board. I think my brother and friend here, has debated fully the issue of national balancing which is our primary aim as a political party in the Government; to bring the fabric of this country together and tie it seamlessly, away from what the Patriotic Front (PF) used to do dividing people every day they woke up. The PF excluded people based on ethnic extraction. This person whom they are demonising is the only one from the Copperbelt Province. What are they saying about the Lamba people? What is it that they are saying about the Lamba people?

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Kalimi: Is he the only Lamba?

 

Mr Nkombo: Over and above that, Mr Dante Saunders comes from what I would call the minority group. He is a man of mixed blood. Just for hon. Members on the left to understand, I will dwell on that; the two men have been instrumental for a very long time to make the PF open its eyes that it was actually in self-destruction mode. The issue of discrimination was the hallmark of the PF and Mr Saunders. at the time when the PF had teeth to bite, stood up and spoke. He is the man that at every opportunity, be it Civil Society (CS) meetings or any political party meeting, not the United Party for National Development (UPND) meeting, he would move with a traditional bloom saying that we need to sweep this country. We have swept it and the garbage is not under the carpet. It is ku marabo, at the dustbin, thanks to Mr Dante Saunders.

 

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkombo: Where would we be if we did not have people of his calibre, who could stand up against a ruthless regime, a party that was just mutilating democracy at every step of the way? He was one voice that stood up and said, nha’a!

 

Madam Speaker, not long ago, the former Head of State was talking about dialogue and I was shocked…

 

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Nkandu: On the Minister?

 

Mr Nkombo: …when he referred to the issue of genuineness, hypocrisy and dialogue. I want you to be reminded, I was a member of the Dialogue Committee of the UPND, but hon. Members on your left walked away, at the time it mattered the most.

 

Madam Speaker, they said, “we are no longer members of the Commonwealth. This is a sovereign State; we do not need anybody to come and moderate a meeting that will bring this country together.”

 

Madam Speaker, the lady, the hon. Minister of Information and Media has demonstrated that Madam Jacqueline Chishimba is a northerner. Madam Chilufya Mwaba was just married to my late brother, Manase Phiri, she is a northerner. What is this thing about the North-Western? These two are extracted from the northern region of the country. We have a Nyambe; he is a Lozi. We have a Joseph Kazhila; he is a Lunda.

 

Mr Samakayi: Kaonde!

 

Mr Muchima: Vunde!

 

Mr Nkombo: We have Nchimunya; he is a southerner. What is wrong with this? Is it just a matter of arguing because hon. Members on your left want to prove their irrelevance?

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, the time has come for reckoning. It is time to accept that out of these nine, all of them are young people in our bracket. So, why take two and discriminate against them based on age. When the Acting Leader of the Opposition said, “I know it is Mr Hichilema who did this and not the hon. Minister” that, to me, is derogatory about elder man Jack Kalala.

 

Madam, in case hon. Members on your left want to be reminded, sanity came to this country in 2001 when the late President Mr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa came and took the leadership of this country and his Principal Private Secretary was Mr Jack Kalala. In Tonga we say, muzike ulumbwa naloboka, which means that, a slave is only thanked once he/she has run away. The same people who called Levy Mwanawasa a cabbage, after he died, said he was ok; he was stake.

 

Madam Speaker, I want them to understand that this same Dante Saunders and Jack Kalala that they are now vilifying today are the reasons their faces will continue to show on the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC). Otherwise, if we took any other people of like-minds like hon. Members on your left – we were never seen on ZNBC during their time. However, I want to assure them that these same people, whom they are vilifying today, are the ones who are going to make sure that ZNBC gives fair coverage to even them.

 

Madam Speaker, that was not heard of during the PF.

 

Mr Muchima: Never!

 

Mr Nkombo: Tipyanga calo cino. We are sweeping this country, and one wants to put oneself in the category of garbage – I am sorry. I withdraw the word ‘garbage’ – in the category of dirt, it will be at the Chunga Dumpsite.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I take the House to Standing Order 207 which talks about Contempt of the House and Paragraph (2)(a) talks about speech or writing reflecting negatively on the House or Members. The hon. Minister was permitted to use words like ‘mixed colour’. There could be some excitement from him, of course, in defending his position, but the mere use of ‘mixed colour’ is unparliamentary.

 

I seek your ruling.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: All I can say is that a word becomes unparliamentary depending on the way it is used. In this case, the hon. Minister was referring to somebody who has, maybe, more than one colour.

 

Laugher

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: So, I find that word not to be unparliamentary. The hon. Minister was not out of order in the manner that he used the word.

 

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me, as a female Member of Parliament, the chance to add the voice of women in Zambia.

 

Madam Speaker, first of all, I want to commend your Committee for the good work done. I also want to commend the hon. Minister of Information and Media, Hon. Chushi Kasanda, for her wisdom and remind my colleagues on your left that she, herself, is a youth. It just underscores the fact that this administration recognises youth, women and men, young and old.

 

Madam Speaker, I felt sad listening to some of the voices on your left and the manner of debate in their opposition to some of the nominees because I recall how Zambia got its independence and the injustices in our education sector. To think that fifty-seven years down the lane, people who are free today can stand on the Floor of this House and begin to speak in that tone. There is nothing wrong with saying that somebody is old or somebody is young, but just the manner in which it was said. As I sat here, I was thinking whether Mr Dante Saunders was listening to this debate. I am sure he shed some tears in a way. He must be very sad, especially when you consider the contribution he has made to get Zambia where it is today.

 

Madam Speaker, we have a lot of young people in this Parliament today and, of course, very few women. I think when we, as hon. Members speak, we must feel for the people out there who put us here. Many people voted for this administration. Our population is predominantly youthful; the youth are more than the old people, just like there are more women who voted than men. So, to begin to think that only the youth must be considered is not being fair.

 

Madam Speaker, what is important is to recognise the youth, but we must also recognise those of age that have put us where we are today. I think it is very important. Whenever we are talking about people who are not here, I want to advise my colleagues both on the right and left, that let us...

 

Amb. Kalimi: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Ah! On the minister?

 

Mrs Masebo: ... just be mindful. There is a saying that we do to others as we would like them to do to us, which I think is very important.

 

Madam Speaker, speaking about Mr Dante Saunders, for some of us that have worked with him, I will tell you that he is very energetic. He is more energetic than some of us sitted here who may be half his age. Sometimes, it is not just about age. Many other factors must be taken into account.

 

Madam Speaker, you will note that even your report the Human Rights Commission, in its submission of support, did say that Mr Saunders may be above the age of 70, but even the law establishing the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) did not indicate that there is an age limit for us to start using that as a basis to say no. You can only say no if it said that one had to be below the age of fifty-five and then somebody older is chosen. It is only then that you can question the appointment based on the age when the rules say something else. In this case, the Act does not say that anybody should be restricted on account of age. So, age is only important by way of looking at a person. Somebody may be fifty years of age and you can even see that that person cannot perform while somebody may be seventy years of age, but you can see that that person is still very active. In this regard, both Mr Kalala and Mr Dante Saunders are fit in terms of capacity.

 

Madam Speaker, also, if you look at this board, it does not say that one must have a degree or a Grade 12 certificate. Boards are not only about people with degrees. They should stop dreaming about such things. This country is not about degrees. This country has been destroyed because of the so called degree holders that think this country is about them. A board such as the ZNBC Board takes into account community representation. Therefore, ZNBC is a community corporation. It is a citizen’s corporation. So, you may even say that these two people are representing the community.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mrs Masebo: They are representing the elderly people out in the village; so, what is wrong with that? They should stop getting excited and think they are superstars just because they are here. When they look at others, they think they are not fit. That is wrong.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mrs Masebo: We must regard all our citizens; the young, the old, the rich, the poor, the weak, ...

 

Hon. Government Members: The degree holder!

 

Mrs Masebo: ... the degree holders and those who did not go to school.

 

Madam Speaker, mind you, today, there are people who cannot come here to this Parliament because of a lack of Grade 12 Certificate, but you also know that we have many people without Grade 12 certificates who are better than us. So, when you have an opportunity of an organisation that allows you to appoint people without Grade 12 certificates, as long as you know that they are able to read and understand English, which most of the documents come in, you can take them on as board members.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

The Minister for Copperbelt Province (Mr Matambo): Madam Speaker, I think I will be doing a disservice to the people of Lamba land if I do not debate on this issue. I wanted to tell the hon. Member of Parliament, the so called Acting Leader of the Opposition that Lamba land has some people we call, the fountain of wisdom. Wisdom is not something which you will acquire from school. It is given by God.

 

Madam Speaker, one of the people we have in Lamba land, who is a fountain of wisdom is Hon. Jack Kalala. The late President Mwanawasa, may his soul rest in peace, you will  agree with me that he will be in the history of this country as one of the best Presidents Zambia ever had. I think he can only be compared His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Matambo: Madam Speaker, when choosing or appointing people, the late President Mwanawasa picked people who performed well, had wisdom, were corrupt free, people who could not be compromised and people with principles. Mr Jack Kalala was such a person who happened to be in that category. He was the principle private secretary for the late His Excellency President Patrick Mwanawasa. If you looked at the principle of late President Patrick Mwanawasa, there was no way he was going to pick a person without principles and wisdom to be his private secretary.

 

Madam Speaker, Mr Kalala, when it comes to qualifications, in Lamba land, we know him as one of the most qualified persons in the field of accountancy. He is a qualified accountant. I would have loved my hon. Colleague to be present so that I can try to tell the hon. Member more about Mr Jack Kalala.

 

Madam Speaker, Mr Kalala, is a person who has stood the test of time in terms of principles. When most of the people were bought with two coins of silver, he is somebody who stood the test of time. He spoke and was on the side of Zambians. When we experienced gassing, when we were being brutalised and when we went through thick and thin by the previous regime called Patriotic Front (PF).

 

Madam Speaker, if you look at the Cabinet of the previous regime, there was no Cabinet Minister from Lamba land and he spoke against that. Unless they are telling me that they are not help with him because he stood the test of time against corruption and bad governance. That is the type of a person Mr Jack Kalala is. If they are talking about the age, let us go and check the Cabinet of the previous Government and look at the age. Who was a youth in that Cabinet? I do not want to mention names. Look at some of the previous hon. Ministers, most of them were about seventy, seventy–five and some almost eighty. Even the second office, I do not want to mention names. What are they talking about? Is it the age or because he is Lamba.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Eight-five

 

Mr Matambo: Madam Speaker, the Lamba people have proved to have principles and the best in Zambia. Look at the late President Mwanawasa, he was from Lamba land. I think the issue of age is an scapegoat unless they are talking about the tribe.

 

Madam Speaker, the people of Lamba Land are very happy with the leadership of His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema. This is why they kept on giving him votes even when we were in the opposition. We had two hon. Members of Parliament on the Copperbelt, who came from Lamba land. This is because they are principled. They knew that PF was a corrupt regime. So, talking about Mr Jack Kalala because of age, I think it is just an scapegoat. He should have just come out straight and said because he is Lamba.

 

Madam Speaker, we are not going to allow such discrimination going forward. Mr Jack Kalala, I repeat, is somebody we consider as the fountain of wisdom in Lamba land and he is principled. What we want on that board are people who are going to say, we should not give coverage to one political party, but cover everybody and that is the type of a person Mr Jack Kalala is.

 

Mr Dante Saunders is the same. They fought for this country and have always stood on the right side of history and those are the people we want to be on that board.

 

Madam Speaker, the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) used to be another branch for the PF. Every time you would want to listen to the news, the first and second items would be PF. A to Z, it was PF. We need Mr Jack Kalala, the likes of Bishop Kazhila and Dante Saunders to bring sanity into the ZNBC. So, do not hide behind the age. You should just come out in the open and say because he is Lamba. We are here to rule as Lambas. We are part of this Government and we will be part of this Government.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Matambo: So, no tribalism, we will not entertain it.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Interjections

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear! Walabila mwisho.

 

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, I will be very brief and the reason I have chosen to speak after such a moving testimony from the hon. Minister for the Copperbelt is because of the direction that the debate from the other side took.

 

Madam Speaker, for the first time, I felt very sad to listen to what was being said. The people who debated from the other party are people who I have tremendous respect for, the Acting Leader of the Opposition and the hon. Member for Parliament for Matero. However, the way they choose to direct this debate is indicative of the ills that were brought upon this country during the reign of the Patriotic Front (PF) administration.

 

Madam Speaker, let me remind you. During the last ten years, I think in the minds of the Zambians and many people, there were two sides. The good and the bad and anybody who spoke for the good and for the people, ultimately, not only were they crucified, but they where aligned to the United Party for National Development (UPND), that is the fact. If you spoke against the ills that were wrought on this country by that Government, you were aligned, whether you were a member or not, you were aligned to your right side.

 

Madam Speaker, speaking about the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC), which is the subject today, I stood together with about eleven people for president in 2011. The party in power then was the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD). We were able to debate on ZNBC. We were able to be interviewed on Sunday Interview on ZNBC and many other interviews even as members of the opposition, after 2011 that fell by the way side.

 

Madam Speaker, these two people, Mr Jack Kalala and Mr Dante Saunders are known to me personally. They are people of integrity. In fact, it is us on your right side that should be afraid that they are going on that board. This is because if we do the wrong things, judging by their history both Mr Dante Saunders and Mr Jack Kalala, they will not allow us to get away with it. These are the two together with the others that will grantee the freedom for anybody to appear on that media. This is what this country needs.  So, I support this Motion and the Committee has done a wonderful job.

 

Business was suspended from 1640hours until 1700 hours.   

 

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

The Minister of Information and Media (Ms Kasanda): Madam Speaker, thank you very much. I thank the mover of the Motion, the seconder, and the whole Committee for a job well done. I also recognise and thank all the hon. Members who have contributed to debate on this very important Motion.

 

Madam, as the Committee rightly noted, the media plays a vital role in the promotion of good governance, democracy, upholding of the rule of law, human rights, and development. Indeed, the ZNBC, as a public broadcaster, is very cardinal to the achievement of the above. It is, therefore, very important that only qualified and morally sound Zambians are appointed to its board.

 

Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government, in recognising the importance of the media, which is the Fourth Estate or pillar of democracy, made the appointment of these eminent men and women who have been proposed for ratification today after a careful analysis of the many names that came forth. I would like to put on record that I am the hon. Minister of Information and Media, and, therefore, appointing authority for these boards and not the President.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Kasanda: Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government, in recognising the importance of the media, has made a careful analysis of all those who were appointed. I am aware that the Committee has raised the issue of non-inclusion of youths and persons living with disabilities. I would like to state that my Government has taken note of this concern and I assure the House that the Government will ensure that this is taken into account in future. I have also taken note of the observations and contributions by the hon. Members, and I will endeavour to take them into consideration. However, if my memory serves me right, recently, the President appointed John Chiti as member of the Zambia Police Service Commission. He also appointed Christine Chama as a Commissioner at the Human Rights Commission. Therefore, this Government is inclusive.

 

Madam Speaker, coming to the two nominees, as you are aware, experience is the best teacher. On Mr Dante Charles Saunders, I have noted with concern that the comments that have been made against this nominee’s appointment are based on his age. It is unfortunate that we can have a person be discriminated on account of a person’s age. The House may wish to note that the nominee is a prominent governance and democracy activist. Being the oldest member of this board, he brings to the board a wealth of experience. His experience will add value to the board. His wisdom will add value to the board. Despite his age, there is no legal obstacle in the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation Act that would prevent him from being appointed.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Kasanda: Madam Speaker, the comments against Mr Jack Kalala are also about his age, similar to the comments about Mr Saunders. I wish to inform the House that the law that was used to appoint the first nominee is the same law that was used to appoint the second, and it does not discriminate against any person based on age. I, further, state that the law was followed. Let me take this opportunity to advise all hon. Members of this House that where they are not satisfied with the law, the onus to amend the law falls squarely on us, on our shoulders. The people assembled in this House today are the ones who can take this responsibility of making amends and repealing the law.

 

Madam Speaker, with that said, I affirm that the nominees are qualified to the positions they are being ratified today. Just to remind everybody in this august House that I am very young in age, but I was brought up in a home that made sure that we respected elders and we got principles as well as values and wisdom from elders. That is the reason I appointed these two nominees. It is so that they can help us in that regard. There is no way that we can forget where we are coming from. As much as we thank the youth who voted for us and we respect them for that, we need to take into consideration that wisdom comes from the elders.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Kasanda: Since wisdom comes from the elders, we need these two nominees to be part of this good committee or board that has been brought before this House.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Kasanda: Madam Speaker, I remind all of us that these are parents we should all look up to. Like Hon. Garry Nkombo said earlier, tomorrow you and I will be grey-haired and we will definitely be called ‘ballys’ and what else do they call us?

 

Hon. Government Members: Queen!

 

Ms Kasanda: ‘Queen, grandma.’

 

Madam Speaker, at the end of the day, these are the people we are going to draw knowledge from, looking at their experience and skills. So, with that said, I thank all the people for the support and thank all who debated.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Members who have offered positive contributions to this Motion, except the hon. Members on your left who offered very demeaning statements on our elders.

 

Mr E. J. Banda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, I want to say that –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

A point of order is raised.

 

Mr E. J. Banda: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member for Mwinilunga in order to say that ‘the hon. Members on the left’ when on the left are some hon. Ministers and us, independent hon. Members as well as Opposition hon. Members? He should be specific when he says the Opposition. We have Opposition hon. Members from Mr Hamududu’s party and the Patriotic Front (PF) party. He should be specific and not include us in the battles which we are not part of. We do not want to inherit something which we do not know.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I am sure that was on a light moment, but the hon. Member is correct because not everybody seated on the left is bad. So, the hon. Member for Mwinilunga will withdraw that statement.

 

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, well guided

 

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Samakayi: What I said did not include the man in white. He debated very well.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, this time I am standing on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order 66, which is on unparliamentary language and Standing Order 65, which states that an hon. Member has to ensure that the information he or she provides to the House is factual and verifiable.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Mwinilunga has clearly been trying to insinuate that the debates from us hon. Members on your left have been more like insulting and demeaning. Those are the words that he used regarding the two nominees whose nomination we are opposing. We are shocked by such assertions, including the running comments, because whatever we said here is contained in your Committee’s report.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Can we give him chance to speak.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, when we are debating, we should try at times to be objective and factual. It is our position here that the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government was elected into office by youths. We have a right to hold that position and it is still our position that the youths of Mazabuka, who might have studied journalism, should have been considered as opposed to people who have retired.

 

Madam, is the hon. Member in order, therefore, to insinuate that we have been demeaning our statesmen like Mr Dante Saunders, whom we know and still maintain that he should not be considered on this board? He can instead be given something dignified considering that he is not qualified like Mr Jack Kalala. We still hold that position. Is he in order to refer to our standing and position as demeaning? I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: As you are winding up your debate, hon. Member for Mwinilunga, I think you should be mindful of the language that you are using because in your Committee, we had people representing different political parties who agreed with you and whom, I am sure, do not even agree, maybe, with what the Acting Leader of the Opposition has stated. So, you, as chairperson of the Committee, can you just be focused and conclude this Motion to adopt your report so that we move forward.

 

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, I am much focused and I did not mean everyone on the left. I was referring to the comments that were made in the course of the debates. Basically, I was saying that there was no observance of the National Values in the comments from some of the debaters on your left; that is basically what I was saying. I was about to tell you an adage in Lunda: kosi mukala wabula kashinakazhiku, meaning there is no village without old people. That village is dead because there is no wisdom in that village.

 

Madam Speaker, I take this from our late President, President Mwanawasa, who said that you cannot be clever than all of us if you are seated alone on the other side and we are five or ten on this side. You cannot be cleverer than all of us. Only the wise will take something from there.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank those who debated quite fiercely, offering very effective rebuttals to the debates that came from the left. We took cognisance of all the information that we got from the witnesses, including the hon. Minister herself, and we thought that what we brought out here was a report that came out of our input.

 

I say thank you to everyone who has debated, including those who offered negative remarks.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you very much.

 

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORT, WORKS AND SUPPLY

 

Mr Mubika (Shangombo): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Transport, Works and Supply on the proposal to ratify the African Road Safety Charter for the First Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion Seconded?      

 

Mr Simushi (Sikongo): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

 

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, pursuant to Article 63 of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016, and Section 5 of the Ratification of International Agreements Act No. 34 of 2016, the National Assembly is mandated to oversee the performance of the Executive functions by among other things; approving international agreements and treaties before they are acceded to or ratified.

 

Madam Speaker, in this regard, the Committee was tasked to consider the African Road Safety Charter that was referred to it by the House. The Committee sought both written and oral submissions from relevant stakeholders in order to interrogate the provisions and appreciate the ramifications of the Charter under consideration. The House may wish to note that all stakeholders who appeared before the Committee were in support of the Charter.

 

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that the African Road Safety Charter was adopted on 31^st January, 2016, at the 26^th Ordinary Session of the Assembly of Heads of State of the African Union in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. The purpose of the Charter is to serve as a principal policy framework for improving road safety in Africa. It will also be used as an advocacy tool and instrument for road safety improvement on the African Continent aimed at creating an enabling environment to reduce road traffic crashes.

 

The high rate of road traffic crashes affecting mostly the young people on the African Continent resulted into the formulation of this Charter. This is because statistics indicate that about 292,000 lives are lost every year in road traffic accidents despite the number of motorised vehicles on the continent being lower than that of the world’s total.

 

Madam Speaker, given this background, let me assure the House that ratifying the African Road Safety Charter will enhance the operations of the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) and the Road Development Agency (RDA) in promoting road safety in the country.

 

Madam Speaker, despite the benefits that will be derived from the Charter, if ratified, the Committee is concerned that some of the provisions may be in conflict with the Road Traffic Act No. 11 of 2002, the Public Roads Act No. 12 of 2002 and the National Road Fund Agency Act No. 13 of 2002. The Committee is of the view that these pieces of legislation should be amended in order to domesticate some of the provisions of the Charter which are currently not in sync with the Zambian laws.

 

Madam Speaker, in this regard, the Committee recommends that once the Charter is ratified, the aforementioned pieces of legislation should be amended so as to bring them in tandem with the provisions of the Charter.

 

Madam Speaker, the Committee fully supports the proposal in the Charter for State parties to collaborate efforts to ensure that roads safety standards are adhered to nationally, regionally and continentally through knowledge sharing, monitoring and evaluation. It is the Committee’s considered view that this provision will be feasible by putting in place a well-coordinated training programme, licensing and truck driver safety education. In this vein, the Committee recommends that the Government puts in place a mechanism that ensures strict collaboration with State parties regionally and continentally in the training of drivers and issuance of Driver’s Licenses.

 

Madam Speaker, in view of the potential benefits of ratifying the Charter, the Committee fully supports the proposal to ratify and, therefore, recommends that the House approves the proposal by the Executive to ratify the African Road Safety Charter subject to the consideration of the concerns raised in the report.

 

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, allow me to express the Committee’s deep appreciation to all stakeholders who tendered both oral and written submissions before it. Lastly, the Committee also appreciates your guidance and the services rendered by the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly during its deliberations.

 

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

 

Mr Simushi: Now, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity you have accorded me to second the Motion that has been moved by the Chairperson of the Committee on Transport, Works and Supply that was laid on the Table of the House on 31^st March, 2022, that this House do adopt the Report on the proposed ratification of the African Roads Safety Charter during the First Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly.

 

Madam Speaker, in seconding the Motion, allow me on behalf of the Committee and, indeed, on my own behalf, to thank the Chairperson for the able manner in which he presided over the proceedings of the Committee.

 

Madam Speaker, the objectives of the Charter are, indeed, progressive, as observed by the Committee, to the extent that when implemented, could help reduce road traffic crashes and fatalities not only in Zambia, but also in the whole of Africa.

 

Madam Speaker, this proposal to ratify the African Road Safety Charter could not have come at a better time than now when our country has seen an increase in road traffic accidents, some of which have ended in fatalities.

 

Madam Speaker, I will ascertain the fact that all the stakeholders who appeared before the Committee agreed in unison in supporting the ratification of the Charter. As stated by the Chairperson, the charter would, indeed, help our country to coordinate its activities in as far as road safety and road maintenance are concerned, among other things. Therefore, it is true that our agencies, the Road Development Agency (RDA), RTSA and the local authorities, would benefit more by us ratifying this Charter.

 

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, allow me to thank you for the opportunity you accorded the Committee to be part and parcel of the consultative process to ratify the African Charter on Road Safety.

 

Madam Speaker, allow me to join my Chairperson in thanking all the stakeholders that appeared before the Committee to make their invaluable contributions which have culminated into the report that was laid on the Floor of this House.

 

Madam Speaker, I will be failing in my duty if I do not recognise the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the overwhelming support that we received as a Committee during the time of our deliberations.

 

Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, this is a non-controversial Motion. It is a Motion that will enable our road safety agency to be able to synchronise and coordinate with national, regional and international road safety agencies. This is important considering that many of our accidents, particularly those which occur in international routes like the Great North Road, the Great East Road and the road that leads to the southern part of our continent involve international truck drivers. For example, Tanzanians, when driving on our Great North Road are so careless that they do not observe road signs. Most of the time, they do not pay courtesy to other road users. Those of us who have driven on that road can attest to these facts.

 

Madam Speaker, by ratifying this Charter, we will be agreeing or giving power to our national road safety agency to be able to work hand in hand with their colleagues in Tanzania and many other countries, thereby, fostering road safety in our country.

 

Therefore, Madam Speaker, we, on your left, would like to thank your Committee for the work done. We would like to say to Her Honour the Vice-President that come Monday, we are sure road safety measures in our country will be enhanced simply by this increment in fuel prices because very few people will be able –

 

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

 

Mr Mung’andu: I can assure you, Madam Speaker, and those saying ‘Question!’ that come Monday…

 

Mr Jamba: Question!

 

Mr Mung’andu: …those who were able to drive from Kaputa to Lusaka using their own personal vehicles will have to think twice.

 

Mr Mubika: Order!

 

Mr Mung’andu: The fact that the volume of traffic will be less, on its own will be a measure of road safety.

 

Laughter

 

Hon. Member: Cycling!

 

Mr Mung’andu: I have no confidence that with this ratification, our roads will become safer roads.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you and I support the Motion.

 

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi) (on behalf of the Minister of Transport and Logistics (Mr Tayali)): Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me to add my voice to this debate on this very important Motion. In responding to the debate, I wish to thank the one who has debated for being very reasonable in his debate, but I also remind him that in this House, when we say negative things against a country, we have to be careful how we couch the language. If we have issues with Tanzanian truck drivers, we should confine it to that category of people. He did mention Tanzanians; it can bring problems between our countries.

 

Madam Speaker, allow me also to thank your Committee for its extensive consultations and deliberations on this very important subject. My thanks, indeed, also go to the stakeholders who took the time to input on the matter. In my response, Madam Speaker, I seek to allay the fears of the Committee in terms of a number of subjects that they have raised such as certain Acts and so on and so forth.

 

Madam Speaker, not long ago, a ministerial statement was delivered in this august House – do take notice “august House” – on the continued increase in the number of road traffic crashes and fatalities in which poor road-user behaviour and the state of the roads were leading causes of these crashes and fatalities. Ratifying the Road Safety Charter will play a key role in addressing a number of these challenges.

 

Madam Speaker, the Charter was adopted arising from the deep concerns on the high rates of road traffic crashes in Africa. This Charter is the principal policy framework for improving road safety in Africa and is an advocacy tool and instrument for road safety improvement on the African continent. By ratifying the Charter, Zambia will benefit from the continental approach towards reducing road traffic crashes and fatalities.

 

Madam Speaker, the Charter will promote, among other things, collaboration at national, regional and continental levels of interventions and measures aimed at improving road safety in Africa. The Charter has progressive provisions which, if implemented, will help raise the country’s road safety profile. Provisions such as improved driver competencies through enhanced and strict adherence to training programmes for drivers, the adoption of standardised road designs that consider the needs of all vulnerable road users and the need for maintenance of damaged roads and installation of road signs to help reduce road traffic crashes and fatalities.

 

Madam Speaker, allow me to address some of the recommendations made by your Committee.

 

Harmonisation of Current Pieces of Legislation

 

Madam Speaker, the Government has commenced the process of amending the three key Acts in the road sector, namely the Road Traffic Act No. 11 of 2002, the Public Roads Act No. 12 of 2002 and the National Road Fund Agency Act No. 13 of 2002. The Bills are at various stages of amendment and it is my sincere hope that this House will support the Bills when tabled.

 

Road Signs and Maintenance

 

Madam Speaker, the Committee’s recommendations are noted. This House may wish to note that the Government is in the process of developing the Road Sector Investment Programme III (ROAD SIP III) which proposes a shift in funding allocation from road upgrading/improvement to road maintenance. The proposed shift is premised on the understanding that the rate of development of the road network should not exceed the country’s capacity to maintain the completed roads. This is because maintenance has much higher economic benefits per unit of investment than improvement of new constructions. Therefore, the plan gives priority to maintaining the existing roads before improving and expanding the network. This approach, Madam Speaker, will allow core roads in the country to be at standard maintenance levels.

 

Training of Drivers

 

The Government will endeavour to enhance collaboration within the region to ensure harmonised training of all Public Service Vehicle (PSV) drivers. This is particularly key given the number of trucks that transit through our country.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government remains committed to ensuring safer roads, safer road users and safer vehicles on our roads.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mubika (Shangombo): Madam Speaker, let me take this opportunity to thank the House for overwhelmingly supporting the ratification of the African Road Safety Charter.

 

Madam Speaker, thank you very much.

 

Question put and agreed to.

 

_______

 

BILLS

 

THIRD READING

 

The following Bills were read the third time and passed:

 

The Emoluments Commission Bill, 2022

 

The Zambia Institute of Marketing Bill, 2022

 

The Zambia Institute of Human Resource Management Bill, 2022

 

The Social Workers’ Association of Zambia Bill, 2022

_______

 

MOTION

 

ADJOURNMENT SINE DIE

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do adjourn sine die.

 

Question put and agreed to.

_______

 

The House adjourned accordingly at 1746 hours on Friday, 1^st April, 2022, sine die.