Tuesday, 22^nd March, 2022

 

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

The House met at 1430 hours

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

_______

 

RULING BY MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER

 

POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY HON. B. M. MUNDUBILE, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR MPOROKOSO PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY AND LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION, AGAINST HER HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT, MRS W. K. MUTALE NALUMANGO, MP, REGARDING A STATEMENT MADE BY HER DURING THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME, CHALLENGING HON. B. M. MUNDUBILE, MP, TO PRODUCE EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT HIS STATEMENT THAT HIS EXCELLENCY, PRESIDENT HAKAINDE HICHILEMA, FELT LET DOWN BY HIS MINISTERS AND PERMANENT SECRETARIES

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, this ruling is on the point of order raised by Hon. B. M. Mundubile, the Member of Parliament for Mporokoso Parliamentary Constituency and Leader of the Opposition, against Her Honour the Vice-President, Mrs W. K. Mutale Nalumango, MP, regarding a statement made by her during The Vice-President’s Question Time, challenging Hon. B. M Mundubile, MP, to produce evidence to support his statement that His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, felt let down by his Ministers and Permanent Secretaries (PSs).

 

Hon. Members will recall that on Tuesday, 1^st March, 2022, when the House was considering Question for Oral Answer No. 231 on the Order Paper, and Hon. Mike E. Mposha, the Minister of Water Development and Sanitation, had just finished responding to the question, Hon. B. M. Mundubile, Leader of the Opposition and the Member of Parliament for Mporokoso Parliamentary Constituency raised a point of order against Her Honour the Vice-President, Mrs W. K. Mutale Nalumango, MP.

 

The point of order was premised on Standing Order No. 65 and was based on Her Honour the Vice-President’s response to a statement that Hon. B. M. Mundubile, MP, made on the Floor of the House on 25^th February, 2022, that His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, felt let down by his Ministers and PSs. In response, Her Honour the Vice-President stated that she had not heard that statement and requested Hon. B. M. Mundubile to lay evidence of the alleged statement by the President on the Table.

 

In that regard, on 1^st March, 2022, Hon. B. M. Mundubile, MP, raised this point of order to lay on the Table, the Times of Zambia newspaper Issue No. 19,239 dated Thursday, 10^th February, 2022, headlined “HH Feels Let Down” as evidence of his statement on Friday, 25^th February, 2022. In my immediate response, I reserved my ruling to study the relevant newspaper article and also have recourse to the Hansard. I have since studied the relevant documents and will now render my ruling.

 

Hon. Members, it is clear that the sole purpose of the point of order by Hon. B. M. Mundubile, MP, was not to bring to the attention of the House, a breach of the rules of the House. Rather, he used the point of order in order to present evidence to support his claim of 25^th February, 2022. Evidently, this was a wrong use of a point of order. Hon. B. M. Mundubile, MP, should have instead submitted the newspaper to the Office of the Clerk for onward transmission to Her Honour the Vice-President for further action.

 

Hon. Members, in view of what I have highlighted, the purported point of order by Hon. B. M. Mundubile, MP, does not qualify to be a point of order and is, therefore, not admissible.

 

I thank you.

 

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MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

 

MR J. E. BANDA, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR PETAUKE CENTRAL, ON THE MINISTER OF ENERGY, ON THE SUPPLY OF FUEL IN THE COUNTRY

 

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

 

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, the question goes to the hon. Minister of Energy.

 

Madam Speaker, the reduced global supply of oil due to the war in Russia and Ukraine will affect us. Therefore, it is important that the Government takes interest in creating strategies that will cushion the supply of fuel.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Energy is supposed to assure the nation of sufficient supply of petroleum commodities. Last year in November, the hon. Minister of Energy floated a tender under open national bidding for local suppliers to participate in an effort to guarantee the supply of oil. Unfortunately, it was limited to six suppliers. It was not open to more suppliers to spread the risk.

 

Madam Speaker, what is the hon. Minister doing about the supply of fuel as the ministry has not given the tender to a contractor since last year?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: There are requirements for an issue to be admitted under issues of public importance. You have talked of this issue of the supply of fuel having existed from last year. So, this is not a new issue. That is a good question, but I advise you to ask a question under Standing Order No. 74.

 

______

 

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

 

GROWING NUMBER OF SUICIDE CASES IN THE COUNTRY

 

The Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Ms D. Mwamba): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to deliver a ministerial statement on the growing number of suicide cases in our country particularly among the youths, which is a matter of great concern, not only to this august House, but the nation at large.

 

Madam Speaker, suicide behaviours are shaped by the social, economic, and physical environments in which we live in. As such, they have long-lasting effects on families, communities, and the country. Suicide occurs in different age groups, but is common among the youth population. The youth population, which makes up the majority of our population, contributes significantly to national development, and as such, the country is being deprived of its productive resource.

 

Madam Speaker, from the rising number of suicide cases recorded among the youths, it is clear that they are a vulnerable group and require special attention. It is also evident that risks of suicidal behaviour have increased among the youths and there is a need to interrogate the vice and put in place measures to address this problem.  In order to address the problem effectively, there is a need to deal with this in every way. This begins with the realisation that in as much as suicide is a public health issue, it is also a topic of considerable psychological interest. In this regard, the role of social workers in preventing suicide is critical as they are on the preventive side of issues and contribute significantly to the wellbeing of individuals and communities.

 

Madam Speaker, social workers are instrumental in the process of assessing people’s behaviour and putting in place mitigating measures to those at risk of their safety. They are more likely to come into contact with suicidal individuals due to the nature of their work, and they have the ability to build and maintain positive relationships with individuals, families, as well as the community. Further, community-based models such as community case management which target a community-based and a proactive approach to care that involves case funding assessment, care planning and care co-ordination has become an increasingly prominent intervention in social work and is relevant for suicide prevention in our communities.

 

Madam Speaker, it is important to mention that so far, there are no consolidated statistics to show suicide cases among the youths in the country. However, the country generally recorded eighty-nine suicide cases in 2021 ...

 

Mr Lusambo walked into the Assembly Chamber.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms D. Mwamba: ... compared to ninety-seven in 2020.

 

Interruptions

 

Ms D. Mwamba: At the global level, …

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Ms D. Mwamba: … the World Health Organisation (WHO) reported that 703,000 people take their own lives, and more people attempt suicide. Suicide was also recorded as the fourth leading cause of death among fifteen to twenty-nine-year olds in 2019, with over 77 per cent of global suicides occurring in low and middle-income countries.

 

Madam Speaker, there are many factors influencing the youths to commit suicide in our country. These include but are not limited to economic hardships, mental illnesses, undesirable life events such as the loss of a loved one, physical and sexual abuse, relationship breakups and disappointments, and failure to meet high expectations of family and society. There are also certain types of social networks that the youths are involved in which relate to increased suicide risks both in person and through media influences. Social networks can contribute to increasing suicidal behaviour potentially through imitation and idealising or normalising suicidal behaviour. Social media has also to some extent, multiplied the moral decay in society and has become a concern for increased suicidal behaviour. Additionally, there is a strong relationship between clinical factors and suicide. These include depression, anxiety and addiction while physical symptoms include pain and insomnia. Suicide is also associated with suicidal thoughts, hopelessness, feeling like a burden and feeling neglected.

 

Madam Speaker, suicide and suicide attempts have a dramatic impact and take an enormous toll on communities, however, they are preventable with timely interventions. Therefore, the Government has put in place various interventions to mitigate suicide tendencies among the youths and these include:

 

1. the provision of mental health services at health facilities, the promotion of mental wellbeing and the prevention of mental health disorders. These services are available online and physically;
2. intensifying sensitisation programmes by the Zambia Police Service and the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC) through radio and television stations, in schools and colleges on the effects of drugs and alcohol abuse;
3. encouraging strong connections in individuals, family, community and social institutions and the provision of counseling, problem solving, conflict resolution skills to victims and survivors of suicide and Gender Based Violence (GBV);
4. clubs and sports activities have been put in place, for the learners engaged in schools as well as provision of guidance teachers to provide guidance and counseling services in schools; and
5. the help line Zambia provides and promotes online counseling and support services through the child line and GBV help lines. We have also introduced a grievance redress mechanism in some schools to deal urgently with some complaints and counseling related cases.

 

Madam Speaker, the impacts of suicide on the wellbeing of communities are devastating and can induce public anxiety and stress. The effects of suicide range from economic to social and common among them is poverty, due to loss of productivity through the death of breadwinners, conflicts in the community and tremendous emotional burden.

 

Madam Speaker, it has been observed that suicide is multifaceted in nature and hinges on various aspects of life, and as such, cannot be addressed by one single institution, but requires a multisectoral approach. In this regard, I call upon all stakeholders to enhance the promotion of national values and principles so that good morals that deter suicide tendencies can be inculcated in our young people who are the future of tomorrow.

 

Madam Speaker, my ministry in collaboration with other line ministries will intensify sensitisation and training through community dialogues on positive parenting and ensure provision of psychosocial support and care in communities through district social welfare officers. We will also endeavour to work with the Social Workers’ Association of Zambia, whose members are qualified counselors so that they too can contribute to the Government’s efforts in addressing this matter.

 

Madam Speaker, further, there is a need to strengthen the capacity of the existing structures to ensure that they have a significant positive impact on the reduction of suicide cases in the country such as rising awareness at all levels of society. There is also a need for the involvement of community leaders, such as religious leaders and headmen in the fight against suicide, as well as put in place a robust mental health and social referral system so that people can get the help they need. Last but not the least, there is a need for restrictions to access the commonly abused substances that are used to commit suicide in the country.

 

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I call upon all members of our community to get involved in the prevention of suicide among the youths and the general public. This involvement should be encouraged to start at the household level, at church and at any community gathering. It is important for families to discuss these issues on copying mechanisms regarding challenges experienced in life and to seek help as quickly as possible.

 

Madam Speaker, I also urge all hon. Members of Parliament to get involved in their constituencies by vigorously raising awareness on matters relating to suicide. Furthermore, in view of the multifaceted nature of suicide, I wish to emphasise the need for a national response that is comprehensive and multisectoral in addressing suicide in our country.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you and may God bless you.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement issued by the hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Services.

 

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that ministerial statement. Indeed, cases of suicide, including road accidents, have reached alarming levels in the country and it is good that the Government has acknowledged the reasons our young people are committing suicide. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the New Dawn Government intends to reintroduce the Ministry of National Guidance and Religious Affairs, Zambia being a Christian nation, so that this ministry can deal with some of these cases, because maybe, the Almighty God is not happy that we abolished it?

 

Ms D. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, in my statement, I stated that in 2020, before we came into power, there were more cases of suicide. The country recorded ninety-seven suicide cases in 2020 compared to eighty-nine in 2021.

 

Madam Speaker, on the issue of reintroducing the Ministry of National Guidance and Religious Affairs, I believe we are all Christians and we do not need a ministry to tell us to be religious.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, that ministerial statement has been presented in a very nice and sweet voice.  However, comparing suicide cases in 2020 to those in 2021 is not being fair because the circumstances are different. The suicide cases in 2021 appear to be attached to spiritual waters, which a dark world is trying to place in this country.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, can you, please, go straight to the question, instead of debating because you are now debating. What is your question?

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, our late President, Dr Frederick Titus Jacob Mpundu Chiluba, may his soul rest in peace, declared Zambia as a Christian nation. The former President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, declared a national day of prayers and embarked on the construction of the National House of Prayer, where all of us as Christians should converge. Will the Government – 

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, I think you are debating the question.

 

Mr Mung’andu: It was a pre-cursor to my question, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Okay, go straight to the question.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, will the Government uphold the national day of prayers and complete that house of God, so that suicide cases can be dealt with spiritually?

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, I do not think the hon. Minister has an answer for that religious issue. Her statement was on the number of suicide cases.

 

Hon. Minister, do you have an answer for that question?

 

Ms D. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, under the New Dawn Government, religious issues fall under the Office of the Vice-President. So, maybe, that question can be directed to the Office of the Vice-President. However, we are still a Christian nation and we still pray. People go to church either on Saturday or Sunday. However, when I was researching on the causes of suicide, I did not come across a section in any book that says a person committed suicide because he/she did not go to church or because a particular country does not have a national day of prayers. Some of the causes of suicide include poverty, and people take their lives because of some mental challenges. Having studied psychology, most of us face mental challenges and we better take assessments to establish where we are.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.  

 

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Speaker, I thank the Minister of Community Development and Social Services, Hon. Doreen Mwamba, for the statement, and I took time to counsel some youths on social media. However, like the hon. Minister said, some people commit suicide because of financial challenges. After 12^th August, some people anticipated that they would get jobs and be empowered, and in the process, they borrowed. When that did not happen, they borrowed again. So, they over borrowed.

 

Madam Speaker, I commiserate with this Government because there is the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) and the Russia/Ukraine War, so, it will be impossible to create jobs and empower people. What does the ministry wish to do to help the people out there? Some people are still on the verge of committing suicide due to debt.

 

Ms D. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I thank the Member for Matero, Hon. Miles Sampa.

 

Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services is mandated to carry out social protection programmes. Indeed, we have increased the value of the Social Cash Transfer Programme to cushion the poor and the most vulnerable in our country. We have also increased the number of people to be put on the programme. We are still targeting more families, who the ministry will consider to be vulnerable and they will be put on the programme. The ministry is also training community welfare assistants and community social welfare assistants to help with counselling because we realised that we do not have enough personnel. If the hon. Member listened to my presentation, I acknowledged that we do not have enough manpower. Therefore, I call upon all of us to get involved to prevent people from taking their lives.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr C. Mpundu (Chembe): Madam Speaker, the emphasis in the hon. Minister’s presentation was on the youths. However, statistics show that it is not only the youths who are taking their lives. What programmes does the ministry have at institutional level in order to address suicidal cases?

 

Ms D. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question.

 

Madam Speaker, though I was directed to issue a statement on suicidal cases, suicide is a multisectoral issue. It involves the Ministry of Health, the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security and it also involves hon. Members of Parliament. However, we want to sensitise the youths on this issue. Further, the statement was based on the youths because it was in response to a question that was raised relating to the youths. However, I acknowledged that there have been adults, both male and female, who took their lives.

 

Madam Speaker, somebody attempts to commit suicide when he/she is under pressure, depressed, stressed and not in the right frame of his/her mind. Life is dear and we all love it and love to be alive. So, for somebody to contemplate killing himself/herself, then, we must sympathise that he/she is not in the right frame of mind. Suicide is a mental health issue, which requires help. I know that sometimes, some people are arrested for attempting to kill themselves, but I think they should be counselled. Further, families whose member commits suicide must also be counselled.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the elaborate ministerial statement. This clearly demonstrates that the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government attaches great importance to addressing this issue, which is ravaging the young people. Perhaps, I could have missed something from the hon. Minister, but from the number she has shared, how is the gender desegregation? Amongst the two genders, which gender seems to be prone to suicide, for the sake of programmers out there?

 

Ms D. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that follow-up question. Unfortunately, I do not have those details with me, but I can come back to Parliament and share the details.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the answers that she is giving.

 

Madam Speaker, suicide has come into our country like the way the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) came. We never expected people to be killing themselves in the manner that it is happening in our country and it is quite sad.

 

Madam Speaker, I believe hon. Ministers or ministries are working in clusters. The hon. Minister said that there are not enough workers, but some teachers have done psychology. Can we not set up centres in every district or school so these teachers can counsel the young ones? This is very important for this country, which does not seem to take this seriously, because in other countries, psychologists counsel children in schools and those in universities or the general public. Can this ministry not work together with the Ministry of Education so they can set up counseling centres, other than waiting for other programmes to come up because, in the meantime, we will continue losing more lives?

 

Ms D. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question and I thank her for appreciating that we have not really done much as a country. We intend to formulate the national mental health and suicide policy that can help us co-ordinate these issues. Like I said earlier, many ministries will get on board such as the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security, the Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Education. We need a multi-sectoral approach to deal with the rising number of suicide cases. I totally appreciate the hon. Member’s advice and we will take it seriously.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Ms Sefulo (Mwandi): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that elaborate ministerial statement.

 

Madam Speaker, one of the things that we realised in the past or before the New Dawn Government came on board was the decay in our morals and that also resulted into a lot of cyber bullying. We saw a lot of cyber bullying in the previous regime. What plans does the ministry have together with the line ministry, the Ministry of Information and Media, to make sure that they curb cyber bullying? Sometimes, cyber bullying might cause suicide. So, what is the ministry doing to curb cyber bullying?

 

Ms D. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question.

 

Madam Speaker, my ministry is currently working on having a national indaba on mental health, taking into consideration the rising number of suicide cases. Most ministries, hon. Members of Parliament and religious and traditional leaders will be invited to this indaba. That is what we are doing.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity to ask the hon. Minister a follow-up question.

 

Madam Speaker, clearly, this ministerial statement could be coded as one which was not even called for. It was uncalled for because the question asked does not really arise going by the details of that ministerial statement. Clearly, there is scientific evidence that there have been suicide cases before even at a higher rate than what is obtaining now. Given that case, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister –

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, I think the ministerial statement was needed, especially that of late, we been hearing about suicide. We know that there have been suicide cases before, but the phenomenon we are now seeing is that they are rising and that is why there was a call for an urgent ministerial statement to be issued in this House. So, we appreciate this ministerial statement.

 

Hon. Member, you can go ahead with your question.

 

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for your guidance. I just meant to stress the point that there were more cases of suicide than what is obtaining, going by the ministerial statement. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether it would interest the Government to launch a form of a scholarly study or, indeed, a research on the causes of suicide …

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Let us give him chance and hon. Member, can you please go straight to the question.

 

Mr Kambita: … so that we can have more scientific evidence presented chronologically, so that these people do not raise further questions on this matter and try to mudsling the current Government as if it is the cause of these suicides.

 

Ms D. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question.

 

Madam Speaker, I said that my ministry is currently considering having a national indaba where line ministries, for example, the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security, the Ministry of Health and other ministries will be invited, including the technocrats, hon. Members of Parliament and religious and traditional leaders, so that we can take a look at what is mostly causing our children to kill themselves. That is what I said.

 

Madam Speaker, as at now, we do not have the details to show that certain girls who went to a particular school committed suicide. We just know that people who commit suicide are normally depressed. They feel neglected and lonely, and because of those issues surrounding their wellbeing, they think of taking their own lives and they actually take their lives.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity.

 

Madam Speaker, some people tend to commit suicide when their emotions are hurt. One of the poisons this country is struggling to get rid of is the use of hurt speech when addressing citizens. Yesterday, I was shocked to hear two hon. Members of Parliament mocking those who voted for the United Party for National Development (UPND) and telling them that they voted for a cow. That can cause pain on the citizens who may feel offended and led them to commit suicide. What is the ministry doing to ensure that those who hate other citizens are brought to book?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: It is a loaded question.

 

Ms D. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that follow-up question.

 

Madam Speaker, suicide is an emotional and sad issue, especially when it happens to our children. Therefore, we need to approach it with the seriousness that it deserves. For those who are spreading hurt speech, I am glad that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security is in the House and he will look into that matter. I am only responding to questions on suicide cases.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Madam Speaker, indeed, cases of suicide are increasing each day. The hon. Minister indicated that 703,000 people globally commit suicide and 77 per cent are in the low and middle-income countries. Issues to do with depression, anxiety, insomnia and being neglected are the main causes. Will the Government employ more counsellors in schools and other learning institutions or other institutions where a large number of our youths are?

 

Ms D. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Masaiti and I welcome him back.

 

Madam Speaker, maybe, the hon. Member missed the statement. I said that, currently, we are training more social welfare officers and community development assistants. We are also building capacity in the community workers, the Community Welfare Assistance Committees (CWACs). We are also working in collaboration with the Ministry of Education and we have identified teachers who will be talking to our children in schools, identifying their challenges and counselling them.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Petauke an opportunity to ask the hon. Minister a follow-up question.

 

Madam Speaker, the good people of Petauke thank the hon. Minister for the good statement that she has delivered. She called for an indaba so that we can come up with one solution, which will build the country and prevent several deaths. The good people of Petauke would like to find out from the hon. Minister if the ministry plans to increase manpower and to issue certificates to co-operatives so that the people who have problems can benefit from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) ...

 

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Finish your question hon. Member.

 

Mr J. E. Banda: ... grants and loans to reduce the poverty levels?

 

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I stand on a serious point of order pursuant to Article 65(2) of our Standing Orders which states as follows:

 

“(2)        A member who is debating shall not – 

 

(e)        use unparliamentary language or offensive expressions; or

 

(f)         make reference to a person who is not able to defend himself/herself in the

`           House.”

 

Madam Speaker, whenever the hon. Member for Kankoyo is on the Floor, his debate is always a bit offensive. Even when he is asking a follow-up question, he always refers to tribal remarks.

 

Mr Mabeta: Question!

 

Mr Mung’andu: Check the Hansard. You can question but we are here to unite the country.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Jamba, please, give him time.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I need to be protected.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You are protected.

 

Hon. Members, please, give him some time. He is entitled to a point of order. Go ahead, hon. Member.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, as national leaders, we should not just be seen to be uniting the country; we should be uniting the country. Indeed, if there are people wherever we come from who thrive on tribalism, our Constitution is against that. We are ‘One Zambia, One Nation’ not –

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, was the hon. Member for Kankoyo in order, when he was asking the hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Services a follow-up question, to refer to people who are not in a position to defend themselves? He referred to two hon. Members and said they talked on tribal lines. Whenever he stands to talk, he always mentions tribes. His debate is tribal, yet the only tribe that some of us know is Zambia. We are Zambians above –

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Mr Mung’andu: We need to be guided. As leaders, we should be uniting this country and not dividing it. I seek your ruling, Madam Speaker.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members, and thank you for that point of order.

 

 Hon. Member, you have said that the hon. Member for Kankoyo used unparliamentary language and that he mentioned two hon. Members who are not able to defend themselves. I am also interested to hear the unparliamentary word that he used so that he can withdraw it and replace it with another word. However, the hon. Member’s reference to two hon. Members would have been an issue if he actually mentioned the names. That is the rule of the House. You are not supposed to mention names and we do not know which hon. Members he was talking about.

 

 Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

 

 Madam First Deputy Speaker: However, the hon. Member on my right should be focused whenever he is debating although it was not a debate, but a question. So, make sure that you go straight to the point when asking a question and that is the reason we discourage debating because when you debate, it raises many issues.

 

Hon. Member for Chama South, when you are raising a point of order, you should be very specific because you referred to an unparliamentary word which did not come out. So, with that guidance, please, be specific in future and bring out the issues so that we can attend to that point of order.

 

Sorry hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Services, can you still remember the question?

 

 Ms D. Mwamba indicated assent.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You can go ahead hon. Minister.

 

Ms D. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Petauke Central for the follow-up question.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member asked the Minister of Community Development and Social Services whether the ministry will issue licences to co-operatives for vulnerable people in Petauke to benefit from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Even if that question does not fall under this ministry, we are working together and very soon, licences will be issued, especially for women empowerment programmes and youth empowerment programmes.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker:  I can see that we are now moving away from the ministerial statement. Can we be focused.

 

 Mr Hlazo (Chilanga): Madam Speaker, in her presentation, the hon. Minister only spoke about the causes of suicide, but she did not state the methods that people are using to commit suicide. The most common method we know in this country, that people use to commit suicide is through consuming doom. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if the ministry has any plans to ban the selling of doom off the shelf.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Services, do you have an answer because the statement was on the rising cases of suicide and not the methods of committing suicide

 

 Ms D. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chilanga for that follow-up question.

 

Madam Speaker, I stated that we want to put restrictions on the substances that people use to commit suicide. I said that there will be strict controls on the pesticides that are used although in most cases, we hear that people use pain killers, malaria medicines and sometimes, they just hang themselves. So, it is difficult to determine the chemical used for suicide because we do not have those facts. Like I said, we will soon have a national indaba where we will critically look at this vice together.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Madam Speaker, my question relates to alcohol and substance abuse, which is one leading cause of mental health. In fact, at Chainama Mental Hospital, it is the leading cause of admissions to the extent where 42 to 50 per cent admissions of our young people are attributed to alcohol and substance abuse. Now, having recognised this, the hon. Minister also mentioned this in her statement, so, I would like to find out if the ministry has any plans to deal with this matter decisively among our young people? What is the ministry doing to curb substance and alcohol abuse?

 

Ms D. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Lukulu East for that question.

 

Madam Speaker, yes, indeed, my ministry is putting in place measures to control the sale of alcohol to the underage and to monitor the children abusing both drugs and alcohol. We will achieve this when we increase the number of social welfare workers and community development assistants and they will help us monitor the communities.

 

 I thank you, Madam.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I will take the last two questions starting with the hon. Member for Kantanshi.

 

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the timely ministerial statement. These happenings in our country right now go beyond political affiliations. Life is very important and nobody here should blame either political party. I also thank the hon. Minister for stating that there will be a national indaba and this shows that the Government is highly committed to solving this problem.

 

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mumba: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the number of suicide cases is not accurate, but is there any particular region in our country where this vice has become prevalent?

 

Ms D. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that follow-up question.

 

Madam Speaker, as at now, we do not know the accurate locations where the suicide cases are rampant but suicide is very common in urban areas than in rural areas. I think it has something to do with what children in urban areas are exposed to, compared to those in rural areas. It also has to do with parenting because, in villages, parents are quite strict with their children whilst in urban areas, children have more freedom and rights. Positive parenting in rural areas has contributed to low suicide rates compared to negative parenting in urban areas.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr J. Daka (Chadiza): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the people of Chadiza an opportunity to ask a question.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that they will hold an indaba. The people of Chadiza would like to know when precisely this indaba will be held in order for them to prepare for the same?

 

Mr J. E. Banda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, I have just received an email from the good people of Petauke who are complaining that they are seeing their hon. Minister in Parliament, but those who are deaf are not following the proceedings. So, they are asking if the National Assembly can start interpreting on Parliament Television so that they can also follow the proceedings.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you so much. I reserve my ruling so that we investigate further and come up with a ruling to render to the House.

 

May the hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Services, continue.

 

Ms D. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question though most hon. Members might dismiss that.

 

Madam Speaker, this morning, the hon. Member for Petauke came to my office and he raised the issue that persons with disabilities are not following what is happening in Parliament and, therefore, they are demanding that there be a sign language interpreter. Immediately the hon. Member left my office, I called the hon. Minister of Information and Media, and she came to see me. We are looking into that issue and we will soon be writing to the National Assembly.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, it is actually one Government. From what the hon. Minister has explained, measures are already being put in place. So, there was no need for that point of order. However, hon. Minister, the hon. Member for Chadiza wanted to know when the indaba will take place. You can attend to that question on the indaba that you have been talking about.

 

Ms D. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chadiza.

 

Madam Speaker, we are putting in place logistics. We are looking for donors to help us host the indaba but it will be held before June this year.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Lusambo (Kabushi): Madam Speaker, I missed you, and the people of Kabushi missed you.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Lusambo: Madam Speaker, I followed the statement issued by my elder sister, the hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Services, on the increase of suicide cases in our country. In her submission, she talked about the economic hardships.

 

 If you recall very well, Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government promised the people of Zambia that it would create jobs and empower the youths. Is the hon. Minister confirming to this august House and the country at large that suicide cases in our country have increased because of the fake promises which the New Dawn Government made to the people of Zambia?

 

Ms Kasanda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Interruptions

 

______

 

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

 

CONSTRUCTION OF ZANIS OFFICES IN CHAMA DISTRICT

 

302. Mr Mtayachalo asked the Minister of Information and Media:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to construct offices for the Zambia News and Information Services in Chama District; and
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented.

 

The Minister of Information and Media (Ms Kasanda): Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Information and Media has no immediate plans to construct any offices for the Zambia News and Information Services (ZANIS) in Chama District of Muchinga Province due to budget constraints. However, through the district administration offices, the ZANIS can be allocated office space for its operations.

 

Madam Speaker, the ministry has no immediate plans to construct the offices as I stated above.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that response.

 

Madam Speaker, information is power, and the people of Chama have been deprived of information for the past twenty to twenty-five years as there has been no Zambia News and Information Services (ZANIS) reporter in Chama. Recently, I went to the office of the Permanent Secretary and I brought up this issue. It is important that the ministry considers sending a ZANIS reporter to Chama as we just depend on the reporter from Chinsali, and I commend Mr Jonathan Mukuka in Muchinga for doing a good job. So, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether a reporter can be sent to Chama so that the people of Chama can have access to information for them to make informed decisions.

 

Ms Kasanda: Madam Speaker, I assure the hon. Minister that we are able to send a reporter as well as a camera person –

 

Interruptions

 

Mrs Sabao: He is not a Minister!

 

Ms Kasanda: I am blessing him.

 

Madam Speaker, I assure the hon. Member that we are able to send a reporter as well as a camera man to his constituency, but I appeal to him to request for office space from the provincial or district offices. Once he finds that office space, then, my team and I will definitely move in.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, Standing Order No. 65(1)(b), on content of speech, states that a Member shall ensure that the information he/she provides to the House is factual and verifiable. In the speech written for her, the hon. Minister said that Chama is in Chinsali, Muchinga Province, but what we know is that Chama is in the Eastern Province. Which one is the true statement?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Is that a question or a point of order? I think you should have just raised it as a question.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I could have been cited for calling people names.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker:  I want to get the point of order clearly. Are you saying that the hon. Minister did not answer correctly?

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, she is misleading the House by saying that Chama North is in Muchinga Province. As a matter of fact, Chama is in the Eastern Province.

 

 Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, is it possible for you to clarify that for me? Did you say Chama North is in Chinsali or the Eastern Province?

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: No, she is there. Let her clarify.

 

Ms Kasanda: Madam Speaker, Chama has now moved to the Eastern Province but before that, it was in Muchinga and that is the time the question was asked.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Kasanda: Madam Speaker, maybe, it could be of help if the hon. Member counterchecked. I am sure he can countercheck that.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister of information and Media will answer the question that was asked by the – the hon. Member for Chama South, sorry about the mix up.

 

Mr Jamba interjected.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I do not want to call Hon. Jamba a traitor. I know the man very well and he is misbehaving. I need your protection.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you have been given the Floor. Can you, please, go ahead and ask the question.

 

The hon. Members interjecting, can we give him room so that the people out there can also listen to the question.

 

 Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, the people of Chama are struggling to listen to radio two, radio four and radio one because of the technical challenges that the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) might be going through, and their only hope is the Zambia News and Information Services (ZANIS). It was very easy for Mr Jonathan Mukuka from Chinsali to reach Chama, but it will be difficult for him now that Chama has been taken to the Eastern Province. If we provide office space like yesterday, is the hon. Minister promising the people of Chama that a camera man and a reporter will be sent there within a month so that we provide the office space that the hon. Minister is requesting for?

 

Ms Kasanda: Madam Speaker, I believe the hon. Member was in the Chamber when I was answering the question. I already clarified and I gave a specific answer. The information that I gave this august House is that once they find office space, we will be able to allocate the two officers to his constituency and that is the best answer that I can give. Should the hon. Member need further clarity, my office has an open-door policy. He can come through and we can discuss over a cup of coffee.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, we are happy that finally after twenty to twenty-five years, we will have a ZANIS reporter in Chama. I assure the hon. Minister that I will quickly get in touch with the District Commissioner (DC) and the council secretary. I do not think office space would be a problem because in the past, they used to operate from within the council offices.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: That was a comment. We move on to the next question.

 

TARRING OF THE KALABO/SIKONGO ROAD

 

303. Mr Simushi (Sikongo) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

 

1. why the tarring of the Kalabo/Sikongo Road has stalled;
2. when the project will resume;
3. what the cost of the project is; and
4. what the timeframe for the completion of the project is.

 

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, the works for the upgrading to bituminous standard of the Kalabo/Sikongo Road, which is 85 km, stalled due to the termination of the contract by the contractor because of non-payments for works already undertaken.

 

Madam Speaker, the project will resume once funds for the project are secured and a new contractor is procured.

 

Madam Speaker, the cost of the terminated contract was K959,182,051.33, which included Value Added Tax (VAT). The new cost will be determined once a new contractor has been procured.

 

Madam Speaker, the estimated timeframe for the completion of the project is twenty-four months from the date of commencement.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Simushi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his response.

 

Madam Speaker, the people of Sikongo have been waiting for so many years for the Kalabo/Sikongo Road to be worked on and since the creation of this world, that road has never been worked on. Can the New Dawn Government assure the people of Sikongo that within the five years that it has to govern, it will work on the Kalabo/Sikongo Road unlike the hypocrisy that we saw under the Patriotic Front (PF)?

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We have heard the question. Hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Sikongo and this gives me an opportunity to elaborate further, on this very important road and through the elaboration, maybe give a plan as to what the New Dawn Government intends to do on this road, but first of all, there is a need to give a little bit of background.

 

Madam Speaker, the contractor awarded for the previous works was Messrs Stefanutti Stocks in joint venture with the Consolidated Contractors Company. The construction of the road was financed by the Kuwait Fund for Arab Economic Development (KFAED), the Arab Bank for Economic Development in Africa (BADEA), the OPEC Fund for International Development (OFID), the Saudi Fund for Development (SFD) and the Government of the Republic of Zambia (GRZ).

 

Madam Speaker, the scope of the works included upgrading to bituminous standard, which is asphalt surfaced, of the 85 km of the Kalabo/Sikongo Road and the construction of a bridge across the Lueti River. The contractor achieved overall physical progress of 18 per cent at the time of termination and the financial details were as follows:

 

Financier             Preliminary Project Cost              Contract Sum after Evaluation 

                               Estimates                                 

 

                             Initial            Initial %                Revised Amount           Revised %

                             Amount        Contribution         (US$) (Million)              Contribution

                             (US$)                         

                                                                                

 

Kuwait Fund                                   14 million      25.93                    11.83                             16.35

 

Saudi Fund          12 million      22.22                    12                                  16.59

 

BADEA              10 million      18.52                    10                                  13.83

 

OFID                10 million         18.52                       10                              13.83

 

GRZ                  8 million           14.81                       28.50                         39.41

 

Madam Speaker, the project had faced several challenges among them the expiry of the loan disbursement debts from the OFID and the BADEA. The OFID had started processing and paying towards certified amounts after renewing and extending the loan expiry dates. The BADEA was also compelled to start paying for the certified works and the National Road Fund Agency (NRFA) was also engaged to liquidate some of the payments under the GRZ. The contractor for the construction of the Kalabo/Sikongo/Angola Border Gate Road, 85 km stretch of road in the Western Province of Zambia, was terminated on 19^thAugust, 2019. The contractor, Messrs Stefanutti Stocks, is currently owed K126,246,564.16.

 

Madam Speaker, the Kalabo/Sikongo/Angola Border Gate Road is part of the scope of the project for the development of the Western Trade Facilitation Routes Inclusive of Resettlement Schemes and Border Facilities (ARIISE), which is earmarked for implementation using the public-private partnership (PPP) model of financing. The concession agreement for the PPP project was signed with the concessioner on 10^thAugust, 2021 and the commencement of works will be upon the attainment of financial closure. In fact, this stretch of the road under the PPP model will now start from Tapo to Kalabo, Kalabo to Sikongo and from Sikongo to the border, with a one-stop border post at Sikongo. The Zambian Government is engaging with our colleagues on the Angolan side so that they do their part and there can be trade between Zambia and Angola, using this road.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr C. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has many competing needs because nearly every day, he is asked a question to do with a road in one or two districts. From that background and looking at the competing needs that the Government has, the road works will only start once this rainy season finishes. However, the hon. Minister will have pressure from we, hon. Members of Parliament, because nearly everyone on the right or the left, wants a road to be worked on. Does the hon. Minister have any plans apart from the PPP model that he has been telling us, to bring a Supplementary Budget so that at least he can do something for each district, including Sikongo and, of course, my constituency because I have been knocking on his door from time to time?

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, indeed, the hon. Member for Chembe is right. We do engage and discuss issues about his constituency.

 

Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government is aggressively pushing for roads that are commercially viable to be financed under the PPP model because it means the money will come from the investors into the country, and that will help stabilise the economy and the Kwacha. That said, some roads are not commercially viable but necessary for our people. Those are the ones that we must find other ways of financing, either through grants, if there are donors who are kind enough to give us those grants or, indeed, using our own resources.

 

Madam Speaker, as regards our own resources, the 2022 Budget is strained and I have explained that on the Floor of this House several times. The K4.9 billion is not sufficient, especially taking into account Interim Payment Certificates (IPCs), on which we owe vast amounts of money. What the Government said, through the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, is that restructuring the economy, for which we seek everybody’s support in this House including hon. Members on the left, is underway. When the discussions with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and creditors are concluded successfully, we feel that there will then be created at that point, fiscal space, or what other people call headroom, that might enable the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning bring a Supplementary Budget to this House. That is what we may then use to finance some roads that may not have qualified under the PPP model. So, we are taking these matters systematically in carrying out these discussions. All we need to do is remain united as one. If we do that, we will conclude our discussion with the IMF and we will even have more successful discussions with our creditors.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Simushi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the clarification.

 

Madam Speaker, any government that will ensure that the Kalabo/Sikongo Road is worked on, shall never be forgotten by the good people of Sikongo Constituency. Listening to the hon. Minister’s response, it is very clear that that credit will definitely go to the New Dawn Administration. Of course, I cannot forget to mention that some governments will forever be remembered for being very destructive because of what they did. My question is –

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Go straight to the question.

 

Mr Simushi: Madam Speaker, will the scope of works include township roads, when this road is being constructed?

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, it gives me comfort and happiness to hear the hon. Member for Sikongo say that the New Dawn Administration shall forever be remembered by the good people of Sikongo and we will not let them down. We will do what can be done, just like we are doing for other places and many other areas where we have plans to ensure that we take real development, especially as pertains to connectivity of township roads. Currently, we are talking about Tapa, Kalabo, Sikongo and the border. The issues that the hon. Member has raised are matters that should be discussed in the office over a cup of coffee, as long as he brings his own sugar.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Lusambo: Madam Speaker, I was following the hon. Minister of Infrastructure Housing and Urban Development’s responses, who is my son. If he stands in 2026 on the United Party for National Development (UPND) ticket, I will support him because he is very honest.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Lusambo: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has talked about the public-private partnership (PPP). A PPP project is not a simple project. It is very complicated or in short very cumbersome. The people of Sikongo need this road immediately and those in other places like the Copperbelt Province. I am aware that the Lusaka/Ndola Road is also being planned for under the PPP model.  How will the Government fast track the PPP projects? Further, if the International Monetary Fund (IMF) deal fails, where will it get the money to construct these roads? The IMF is bound to fail here in Zambia because the people of Zambia have said no to it.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, you can pick one question.

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the question, who is claiming to be my father. I hope he will do the same thing for my young ones, who he is having problems accepting.

 

Laughter

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, with regard to 2026, we, on this side, have a very good candidate and we are doing everything possible to support him so that come 2026, the plans that we have for this country are actualised and it will be easy sailing for him. So, there is no room for either that side or this side to have a candidate for 2026.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, in fact, if they want to be good citizens, we expect them to not even have a candidate.

 

Madam Speaker, in terms of the PPP, the hon. Member said the people of Sikongo and the Copperbelt want these roads quickly. I assure him that following the destruction of the economy that we saw in the last regime, this is the quickest way to get these roads done. If we wait until we have enough money in the Treasury or we are able to borrow, - we can only borrow when we bring our debt into control. Currently, we are grossly over borrowed so we cannot borrow any more money. We do not have money in the Treasury. So, the quickest way to work on the roads is through the PPP, and that is why this New Dawn Administration is aggressively pushing this PPP route.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member said that undertaking a PPP project is complicated. It was complicated for them because they did not understand these issues. We understand them and that is why we think that we shall conclude these matters very quickly.  Within this session, a Bill will be brought to improve the PPP Act and we are already discussing this. The hon. Minister talked about the Copperbelt and we are already discussing this to make sure that very soon, a concession is given.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, will the Government consider the previous contractor under the public-private partnership (PPP) agreement, since the hon. Minister did not mention having had any challenges with him, particularly that the Government owes him, so that it can be one of the ways to pay him?

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the contractor terminated the contract on account of non-payment. I already mentioned in my earlier answer that the contractor is owed K126 million.

 

Madam Speaker, all the contracts that are terminated either by the contractor or the ones that we will terminate because the contractors have not performed – mark my words when I say terminating a contract is different from terminating a project. We will not terminate any project, but to get control of some things, we may have to terminate some contracts. When we resume the projects, we shall do so on the basis of three elements namely, right price, right quality and delivery on time. So, if the previous contractor meets those elements, it will be one of those that will compete. It will not be given the contract easily. It will be open for other contractors. However, for this project, there are already people who have indicated that they want to work on this road and other roads on a PPP basis. We shall discus with those and we expect them to reach financial closure any time. If they reach financial closure, those are the ones we shall proceed with.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, in one of his responses, the hon. Minister guided that once the negotiations with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) are completed, which he projected will be done quite soon, then, all will go well in the economy and the construction sector. What if as we walk out of this House after this Sitting, we receive news that the IMF bailout has failed or flopped? I am not saying that is what has happened, but just saying what if because we are so much dependent on this IMF bailout. Do we have an alternative economic plan should this IMF bailout fail? Do we have another alternative plan to ensure that our people in Sikongo have this road worked on?

 

Mr Nanjuwa: Asset recovery!

 

Laughter

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. Mung’andu for that question.

 

Madam Speaker, first of all, let us be very careful and not put words in my mouth. The hon. Member said that I said if we get the IMF deal, then, all will be well in Zambia, but I never said that. Running a country is not an easy affair. That is why those who were not prepared failed to run the country. On the other hand, we are veterans and our vision will be carried through.

 

Madam Speaker, with respect to the IMF, let me be very clear on what I said in response to the hon. Member who asked whether there was a possibility of bringing a supplementary budget. A supplementary budget can only be brought when we restructure our debt. Sometimes, the hon. Members on the left pretend that they do not know the extent of the deterioration of the economy that they left. The damage was gross. When we have a national debt, both foreign and local, that amounts to around US$27 billion, that is colossal when you have a Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of around US$20 billion. So, your debt to the GDP ratio is well over 100 per cent and that is not an economy to talk about.

 

Madam Speaker, to put this economy right, we have to engage with the creditors. Let me remind the hon. Member for Chama South that from November, 2020, this country has been defaulting on debt servicing up to now, and November 2020 was under the administration of our hon. Colleagues.

 

Mr Mubika: The PF!

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, let me also remind him that 2022, which is this year, marks ten years after the first Eurobond of US$750 million was obtained. The original plan when that Eurobond was obtained was that ten years later, we would pay back the whole US$750 million at once, which is this year. We were not able to do that, and next year, we have to pay the next Eurobond, which is US$1 billion. In 2024, we will have to pay the third Eurobond in cash. That is the amount of damage that has been done to this economy. So, there is a need to engage with the creditors. What this Government is saying through the President and the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is that to engage the creditors, we have to build trust with them. When they trust us, they are able to sit down with us and see if we are able to reach a deal with the IMF, so that that debt can be restructured. After that, instead of paying the amount of money we are supposed to pay every year, we can reduce the amount. When we reduce it, we will have more money available to use for other needy areas in our economy, including the construction of some roads.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Amb. Kalimi (Malole): Madam Speaker, I assure my honest hon. Minister that he is a Minister because he is part of the United Party for National Development (UPND) alliance. Anything is possible and he can be a presidential candidate in 2026.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Amb. Kalimi: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the ministry only considers the roads which are viable. How is it determined that this road is viable and this one is not viable?

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, my young brother, the hon. Member for Malole, should know that no matter how much he tries, he will not divide us in the alliance. We have one good candidate. Yes, Hon. Mutati and I are presidents of parties, but we are in a solid alliance that for the first time was able to defeat our hon. Colleagues in the Government.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the question is: How do we know when a particular road is viable? The first thing is that we receive unsolicited bids. The investors or contractors assess the traffic volume on a particular road, both now and also projected in the future, which will be able to return their investment. So, that is number one. If, for instance, I want to construct a road in my village, no matter how much projection I can make, it is unlikely that any contractor will be able to recoup his money. However, for a road like the one from Lusaka to Ndola, quite clearly, everyone can see that the traffic volume enables the road to pay for itself. So, for the hon. Member for Malole’s information, all the vehicles coming from Dar-es-Salaam via Nakonde pass through the road from Serenje to Mpika, and maybe from Mpika to Chinsali. So, it is commercially viable. It is different from economic viability because for economic viability, there are other matters that we take into account such as growing the area and so on and so forth. So, that is how we know.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mapani (Namwala): Madam Speaker, are you able to get me there?

 

Laughter

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You are loud and clear. Please, go ahead.

 

Mr Mapani: Madam Speaker, I beg to be redirected in an event of the contrary happening. I heard the hon. Minister clearly state the sums of monies that were misappropriated by the previous regime. He mentioned the figures and other things. To me, all of what he said shows the atrocities that were committed against the people of Zambia. Now, my question to the hon. Minister is: How soon will we see the people who failed to account for the resources of this country face the wrath of the law?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

 

Although this question is not related to the tarring of the road in Kalabo, would you have one or two words to say hon. Minister?

 

Mr Mubika: Hon. Jack Mwiimbu is here.

 

Laughter

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the Member for Namwala, Hon. Mapani.

 

Madam Speaker, this New Dawn Administration has made it very clear that it has three focal points driving it. If one wants to know what the Government is doing, one should listen to what the President said. We have not widened – our Lord Jesus Christ reduced the Ten Commandments to two. Our President has reduced our focal point to three elements namely, reunite the country, bring order in the country, through the rule of law, and rebuild the country using the economy. However, the President further expanded the second one, which is the rule of law, and said that this will deal with the transgressions of the past, the present and the future. So, the hon. Member for Namwala should have faith. This Government is serious. All those who ...

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Masholi.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Eng. Milupi: ... have plundered the economy will be dealt with. There are many on that side although we had others out, who expressed the view that they were also fed up of being labelled with the bad elements who were in the Frontbench. So, the support to deal with the –

 

Mr Lusambo interjected.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Kabushi! You are very loud.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, there are many from that side who agree that people need to account for what they did. That will be done and nobody who did wrong things, especially misappropriated or misapplied money that belonged to the public, will be left scot-free. Our law enforcement officers are already on this and we will see these cases coming to the fore.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

CONSTRUCTION OF A MODERN POLICE STATION IN PEMBA DISTRICT

 

305. Mr Hamwaata (Pemba) asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to build a modern police station in Pemba District;
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
3. if there are no such plans, why.

 

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to construct a modern police station and staff houses in Pemba District.

 

Madam Speaker, the plans to construct a modern police station will be implemented when ongoing infrastructure projects which are at 80 per cent and above are completed and when funds are made available.

 

Madam Speaker, the answer to part (c) is as in part (a).

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the plans to construct a police station will be implemented when projects at 80 per cent are completed and when funds are made available.

 

Madam Speaker, we love the people of Pemba beyond what the hon. Minister might imagine. Since there is cattle rustling there and many other social ills, our people in Pemba have to walk long distances to seek for protection. Is the hon. Minister in a position to give them a specific period when the police station will be constructed, say in the next two years, a year or three years, so that they should be assured that, indeed, it will be built for them.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Chama South has indicated that cattle rustling is rampant in Pemba, and as a result, the people of Pemba want a police station. I want to clearly state that the people of Pemba in my discourse with them are not crying for a police station because of cattle rustling. They are crying for a police station to ensure that some individuals who will not find space in the available police stations countrywide can be accommodated in Pemba.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, as the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development indicated, Government coffers are empty. They were emptied by certain individuals who had authority in this country and those individuals are being pursued by the security agencies in this country. We are confident that once recoveries are made, which will be substantial, money will be available to build the police station.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker,

 

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): Madam Speaker, …

 

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mukosa: … I wanted to ask the hon. Minister to indicate when likely a modern police station will be constructed in Pemba but he has addressed that. However, is the construction of a modern police station in Pemba based on the recoveries that he is anticipating to collect from the people who allegedly have stolen?

 

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, my point of order is pursuant to Article 65(2) of the Standing Orders which states as follows:

 

“(2)       A member who is debating shall not –

 

1. impute any improper motives to the President, Vice-President or any other member;

 

(f)    make reference to a person who is not able to defend himself/herself in the    House.”

 

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to insinuate that the hon. Members on the left have looted? He is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security and he has all the power to arrest and prosecute those he suspects to have stolen. Zambians out there will end up perceiving the hon. Members on the left as looters, yet we are very innocent. Not even one coin from the State coffers was taken. Is he in order –

 

There was a power cut in the Assembly Chamber.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, you can see that even the electricity is not happy.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

 

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Before business was suspended, the House was considering Question No. 303 on the Order Paper asked by the hon. Member for Pemba and the hon. Member for Chama South was raising a point of order. May the hon. Member restate his point of order.

 

Mr Chaatila: Absent!

 

  Mr Mung’andu was not in the Assembly Chamber.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The point of order lapses.

 

Hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, you can attend to the question that was asked before the point of order.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I indicated that the Government of the Republic of Zambia does not have adequate funds to fund developmental projects. I also mentioned that when we make some recoveries, some of the money will go towards these projects as we did when we recovered some money from a certain individual whom I will not mention, and that money went towards funding bursaries.  In the same vein, when we make recoveries, that money will be given to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and it will be budgeted for and the Government of Republic of Zambia will carry out projects. As per regulations and the law, the Government can only spend money, if that money is budgeted for. So, the money will be budgeted for and the expenditure will be from the Budget.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

 Mr Mapani: Madam Speaker, my question was covered in the answer that has just given by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. So, we can proceed.

 

Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that the people of Pemba are crying for a police station in view of creating more space for accommodation. Are there any initiatives for police stations to be erected through public-private partnerships (PPPs), taking into account the employment opportunities this will generate for the police service besides retrieving money from those who are criminals or who are labelled to be corrupt?

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, the Zambia Police Service in this country is not a commercial venture. As a result, it will be difficult for us to engage in public-private partnerships (PPPs) to fund this project. The Zambia Police Service provides a service to the community in that particular locality.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Hamwaata: Madam Speaker, the people of Pemba are very much concerned about the security of our officers, the men and women in uniform. Most of them stay in Monze, meaning they commute every day when going for work. Are there any immediate temporal measures that can be put in place so that our officers can stay within the district and can stop commuting every day?

 

 Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Pemba for that follow-up question.

 

 Madam Speaker, I would like to inform the House and the nation that as a result of the lack of police accommodation in Pemba, the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security, through the Ministry of Finance National Planning, pays all police officers who are not officially accommodated a housing allowance. It is our considered view that the housing allowance that is made available to them can enable them rent houses in Pemba.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I will take the last one from the hon. Member for Kabushi.

 

 Mr Lusambo: Madam Speaker, listening to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, it tells me that there is a disconnect in this Government between the President and the Cabinet because the hon. Minister has no specific solution for the people of Pemba.

 

 Madam Speaker, there is no way the hon. Minister can say that the good people of Pemba will only have a police station when the Government manages to get money from the people perceived to have looted Government resources. If there are people who looted Government resources, it is the people who participated in privatisation. Has the hon. Minister extended this investigation on the recovery of resources to those people who plundered this country through privatisation?

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, as Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, I am not aware of anyone who plundered Government resources through privatisation, but I am aware of so many individuals who held high offices of the Government who have looted and some of them have already been arrested.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Correct!

 

 Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, there is no disconnect between what the President pronounced and what I have said. I also want to make it clear that the policy of first completing projects above 80 per cent before embarking on new projects was of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government and that policy is still subsisting. We inherited a Government and that is why we are saying that we cannot do anything until we review this policy.  Further, Government coffers are empty and we have been very consistent on that matter, and that is why we are saying that when we find money, we will embark on new projects.

 

Madam Speaker, one of the ways of finding money is through the recovery of money that was plundered. The hon. Minister of Local Government and Urban Development told us, on the Floor of the House, how much money was plundered by those who were in the Government and the supporters of the Government. More than K4.5 billion was paid to those individuals, which individuals did nothing and supplied air to the Government. We have made a commitment to the people of this country that we shall recover that money, and once we recover it, it will be channeled to developmental projects that will benefit the people of Zambia.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.  

 

CONNECTION OF CHAMA DISTRICT TO NATIONAL ELECTRICITY GRID

 

306. Mr Mtayachalo asked the Minister of Energy:

 

1. when the project of connecting Chama District to the national electricity grid will be completed; and
2. why the project has taken long to complete.

 

The Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala): Madam Speaker, Chama, Lundazi, Chasefu and Lumezi districts are currently connected to the Malawian national grid. However, Zesco Limited embarked on a project to connect these districts to the national grid. The project of connecting Chama District to the national electricity grid was phased into two lots, that is Lot 1 and Lot 2.

 

Madam Speaker, under Lot 1, the project scope of works involved the following:

 

1. construction of 325 km of a 132kV transmission line from Chipata West Substation through Mwasemphangwe, Lundazi and Egichikeni to Chama;
2. construction of 185 of 33kV distribution lines; and
3. construction of a regional office in Chipata.

 

Madam Speaker, in order to execute the project, Zesco Limited entered into a contract in joint venture with Sinohydro Corporation Limited and Scirocco Enterprise Limited under Lot 1 for the construction of these transmission and distribution lines at a cost of US$43,398,834.05 in October 2014. So far, the project is at 98 per cent with only 3.6 km of the 132kV line yet to be constructed or strung.

 

Madam Speaker, under Lot 2, Zesco Limited entered into a contract in joint venture with Jiangsu Etern Company Limited, CCC Engineering Limited and Cavery Investment Limited for the substation works at a cost of US$26,911,817.01 in September 2014. The project scope of works involved the following:

 

1. setting up one by 132kV line bay at Chipata West 330/132/33kV substation;
2. construction of 132/33kV substations at Mwasemphangwe, Lundazi, Egichikeni and Chama;
3. construction of 33/0.4kV distribution substations at seventy-two rural growth centres composed of health centres, schools, chiefs’ palaces and other Government offices; and
4. construction of 210 km of 33kV overhead lines.

 

Madam Speaker, the project works under Lot 2 are yet to commence because Zesco Limited and the joint venture company are yet to finalise the financing agreements with the bank, the Industrial Commercial Bank of China, which was supposed to provide financing for this project.

 

Madam Speaker, the project will be completed when finances are made available and the financing agreement is concluded.

 

Madam Speaker, the project delayed due to financial constraints.

 

Madam Speaker, I will give further information so that the hon. Member can understand why there is this delay.

 

Madam Speaker, Zesco Limited embarked on a project to connect Lundazi and Chama to the national electricity grid. The two districts are supplied power that is erratic and unreliable from the neighbouring Electricity Supply Corporation of Malawi (ESCOM). The objectives of the project were to increase reliability of power supply in the project area, increase access to electricity in rural areas and increase receivables for Zesco Limited by cutting imports from the ESCOM, where we are buying power from.

 

Madam Speaker, Zesco Limited entered into a contract in joint venture with Sinohydro Corporation Limited and Scirocco Enterprises Limited (Lot 1) for transmission and distribution lines at a cost of US$43,398,834.05 in October 2014, as I have already said.

 

Madam Speaker, further, the progress made so far on this project is as follows:

 

                     Item                                  Cumulative                  Remarks

                Description                       (Per cent)

 

                Bush clearing                   90                                works suspended

                Access road                      87                                works suspended

                Foundation works            100                              completed

                for offices in

                 Chipata

                 Transmission tower        100                               completed

                 erection works

                 Conductor stringing        99                                Tower No. 36 still outstanding

                 33Kv overhead lines

                (Conductor stringing)      98                                suspended

                (Pole erection)                  100                              completed

                 

Madam Speaker, overall progress for Lot 1 is at 99 per cent for the 132kV line. For the 33kV lines, percentage progress was at 98 per cent. The construction of the regional office block was suspended by the contractor, with the following done:

 

1. demolition of the existing building and clearing of rubble completed;
2. setting out of the building was completed; and
3. foundation and slab works were done.

 

Madam Speaker, as regards the substations, Lot 2, the contract in joint venture with Jiangsu Etern, CCC Engineering and Cavery Investments Limited was cancelled in December 2020. The tender was rewarded in July 2021. Effectiveness once again is a challenge due to financing constraints.

 

Madam Speaker, it is worth noting that all foundations and cable trench works on the Chipata/Lundazi/Chama line bay at Chipata West are 100 per cent done. The distribution line construction works under Lot 1 are 100 per cent complete. Area office construction works begun in August 2020 and were abandoned by the contractor because of non-payment of invoices. The project team suspended final inspections on the transmission line due to non-availability of the contractor because he had moved out of site.

 

Madam Speaker, the challenges that are there are:

 

1. vandalism on the new 132kV transmission line;
2. wayleave at Tower No.36 not yet secured because Zesco Limited has to secure the wayleave lines; and
3. payment of approved invoices due to financial challenges facing Zesco Limited.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister of Energy for the response.

 

 Madam Speaker, I want to take this opportunity to thank former Zesco Limited management, Mr Mundende and his team, for completing the 132kV transmission line from Chipata to Chama on record time.

 

Madam Speaker, indeed, the power that the Electricity Supply Corporation of Malawi (ESCOM) supplies to Chama and Lundazi is very erratic because it is only able to supply one megawatt and that has really affected economic activities in the district. Recently, we lost a life because power from Malawi is not reliable. Further, the generator sets (gensets) cannot run continuously because transporters are failing to take diesel to Chama in view of the poor road network.

 

I appeal to the hon. Minister to try by all means to ensure that Zesco Limited concludes discussions with the financier so that Chama and Lundazi can be connected to the national electricity grid as quickly as possible, and Zesco Limited will actually save a lot of money for the procurement of diesel. So, I appeal to the hon. Minister to try by all means to ensure that this project is concluded at least before the end of this year.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: That was just an appeal and not a question.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, those schools or public institutions that the hon. Minister has mentioned – a 11kv transmission line has reached Chief Tembwe’s Palace in Chama South and a transmission line has reached Chief Chikwa’s Palace and conductor stringing was done. However, Chama South Boarding School is not connected even to the Electricity Supply Corporation of Malawi (ESCOM). The ESCOM only supplies erratic power to Chama Central Business District.

 

Madam Speaker, the previous Government did 99 per cent of the works and what is remaining is the construction of sub-stations. When is the Government likely to conclude the negotiations so that we do not see a situation where the conductors and the poles end up being burnt during the dry season, which will be costly to our nation, and to ensure that our people in Chama are also connected to the national grid and the civil servants will thank it for completing this project?

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I have indicated that the main challenge facing this project is the non-availability of funds. There are still outstanding invoices from the contractor and that needs to be sorted out before we can sit down and agree with the next contractor. I am sure the hon. Member is aware that Zesco Limited is currently facing a very challenging financial situation. However, as soon as the situation improves, we should get back to this project and complete it.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Katambo: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister and the hon. Member for Chama North and the Member for Chama South have lamented the erratic power supply from the Electricity Supply Corporation of Malawi (ESCOM). Is the hon. Minister confirming in the affirmative that once this project is completed, then, load-shedding will be a bygone?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: That is how a question should be, precise and focused.

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I think the hon. Member is confusing load-shedding and technical faults. There is no load-shedding currently. If there will be any load-shedding, the whole nation will be informed.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr C. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, you have already guided that you want questions to be precise. I will do so.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister said that this project has Lots 1, 2 and 3. When is this project scheduled to be completed so that our people’s households can be connected to the national grid?

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, as soon as the funds are made available, I will update this august House when this programme will be completed.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.         

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, Chama is being load-shed sometimes even for more than fifteen hours a day. That has really crippled the economic activities in Chama and this is because of the erratic supply of power from Malawi. ZESCO Limited has a generator set as a backup, but the challenge is diesel and it has to ration the electricity to avoid a total black out. So, that is where load-shedding is arising from.

 

Madam Speaker, for planning purposes, it is important for the people of Chama to be given proper information. Can the hon. Minister assure the people of Chama that before the end of this year, those works will be completed.

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, in my response, I indicated that the negotiations with the financiers are ongoing. When those negotiations are completed, we will go back and finish this project. The New Dawn Government is quite serious and prudent in the use of resources, so, we do not want to incur additional expenses regarding this project.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chama North, you have been given two slots. One was an appeal and the other one was the question you recently asked.

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, I did not indicate. 

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: But it is showing.

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, just remove it.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Alright.

 

Mr Lusambo: Madam Speaker, having listened to the hon. Minister of Energy’s submission, it looks like the New Dawn Government came into power without a governance plan.

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Question!

 

Mr Lusambo: Madam Speaker, the previous Government did 95 per cent of works on this project and only 5 per cent is remaining. The hon. Minister said that the New Dawn Government is a serious Government. Where is the seriousness? The previous Government did 95 per cent of the works, but the current Government is failing to assure the people of Chama North when this project will be completed.

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the works were abandoned because the previous Government defaulted in paying the contractors and that is why they left the site.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Ms Sefulo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, my point of order is on the previous speaker, the one we have just welcomed back in the House today, the hon. Member for Kabushi. We know he is a dozer but we are not very sure of what dozer it is.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, Standing Order No. 65, on content of speech, says that as we debate, we should be very factual. Does the hon. Member have evidence to show that the previous Government did 95 per cent of the works?

 

Mr Lusambo: Ask the hon. Minister, he is there.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, are you through?

 

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, I am through.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You have disturbed the hon. Member who was on the Floor. Hon. Member, have you finished?

 

Mr Lusambo: Yes, she has finished.

 

Laughter

 

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, I wish I could raise a point of order on another point of order because the hon. Member for Kabushi is out of order. As you can see, he is disturbing my debate, yet he has not been called on to speak. We are kindly asking the hon. Member to forget the old manners so that he can come refreshed.

 

I have finished, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I will take that as a light moment.

 

Hon. Member for Chembe, let me remind you that each hon. Member is just given one slot. An hon. Member is only given two slots when it is his/her question.

 

Mr C. Mpundu: Thank you for the guidance, Madam Speaker.

 

_______

 

MOTION

 

MOTION OF THANKS

 

(Debate resumed)

 

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for allowing me to continue contributing to the debate on the speech delivered by the Republican President on the Floor of this House, on the progress made in the application of national values and principles in the nation.

 

Madam Speaker, last week on Thursday, I was itemising the values and contextualising them on the progress that we have made in the New Dawn Administration. In particular, I attempted to differentiate the mode in which we are and compared it with how the Patriotic Front (PF) Government ran the affairs of this country, and I had reached the point on patriotism and national unity.

 

Madam Speaker, talking about patriotism and national unity, it is one thing to call for unity and dialogue of one kind or the other, but it is another to stick by it. We have shown clearly that we are here to unite the nation and, many times, the President has stated this clearly in plain words and has invited our colleagues to the table to have meaningful dialogue, which will unite this nation, to avoid all the drama that used to happen in the previous regime where this nation was divided on tribal lines. Alas, just after such a beautiful speech and in view of the progress we have made so far, I have with me here a newspaper, where someone was quoted downplaying such kind of a gesture, which has been given to our hon. Colleagues on the left-hand side …

 

Hon. Opposition Members: By whom?

 

Mr Kambita: … and he simply looked at such a situation as if we are trying to pretend. You have heard in the public domain of people downplaying our gesture to invite our Colleagues to dialogue and we heard words such as hypocrisy from very senior people, downplaying our gesture of inviting them to mourn the former Republican President.

 

Ms Sefulo: Shame!

 

Mr Kambita: In fact, these people have very little shame.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

 

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The word ‘shame’ is unparliamentary. Can you, please, find another word and withdraw it.

 

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, I withdraw the word ‘shame.’ However, if any reasonable human being made a comparison of how these people treated us, he/she would clearly see that we mean well for all Zambians, including themselves. Now, for someone to downplay such kind of a gesture and make it look like we are pretending or we are hypocrites, …

 

Mr Lusambo: You are hypocrites!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Kambita: … it is really being ungrateful …

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order! Can we allow the hon. Member to continue.

 

Mr Kambita: … and that kind of behaviour will affect this country in moving forward.

 

Madam Speaker, we have demonstrated democracy, looking at how we handled the election in Kabwata.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kambita: It was completely devoid of violence. During their time these (pointing to the left), that election would have been almost like the Ukraine war. People would have come out of the election maimed and injured. This is what we mean by proper democracy and making sure that the nation develops. How does a nation develop? We need to embrace the national values and the President mentioned that these principles and values should be part of our lives, individually as hon. Members of Parliament, and as a nation. We need to walk the talk and embrace these values and principles, that is when we will see sustainable development in this country.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Madam Speaker, thank you for affording –

 

Mr Mbao: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mbao: Madam Speaker, thank you for this privilege to raise a very serious point of order. My point of order is directed at Hon. Lusambo, and it is based on Standing Order No. 57, which states that no one is supposed to debate unless given permission to do so by the Presiding Officer.

 

Hon. Government Members: Correct!

 

Mr Mbao: Madam Speaker, not long ago, the Presiding Officer made a very serious ruling in this House, when the people on the left, who do not learn, disturbed the work of this august House. However, when an hon. Member was making a serious statement, someone without your consent assumed the position of Speaker and started speaking, thereby disregarding your office.

 

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling because these people just came back today, and they are bringing confusion in the House.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Lusambo: I have been here for the past seven years.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Members, can we observe the decorum of this House. I am sure the people who are listening or watching the proceedings get very disappointed when we do not keep the rules. You are only supposed to speak in this House, with permission from the Speaker. We do not want interjections because you are disturbing the people who are listening out there. So, can we observe the decorum of this House.

 

May the hon. Member who was debating continue.

 

Mr Katambo: Madam Speaker, thank you for affording the people of Masaiti an opportunity to contribute to the debate on the President’s Speech to Parliament on measures that have been taken by the New Dawn Government to ensure there is progress in the application of national values and principles.

 

Madam Speaker, on 11^th March, 2022, His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, came to address your Assembly as provided for in Article 9 (2) of the Constitution of Zambia, which demands that he comes and addresses the nation on the progress made in the application of national values and principles.

 

Madam Speaker, for me, the central aspect of the President’s Address is for us to hear the progress made in the application of national values and principles.

 

Madam Speaker, the President highlighted the fight against corruption. When the President was talking about the fight against corruption, as I sat here, I thought and felt that he meant political witch-hunt. A few minutes ago, some hon. Members here were saying that some are here. If we are here –

 

Hon. Government Member: You are there!

 

Mr Katambo: Yeah, we are here, and the law is there and the law enforcement agencies are there. In Bemba they say, ingulube ba konka ilile, meaning you only follow the warthog that has eaten your cassava.  We could be here, but we are innocent until proven guilty.

 

Madam Speaker, the President talked about the issue of love. In his own words, he said the fundamental issue is love. Are we showing love here in your august House, when people just point fingers at innocent people who have not yet been proven guilty by the courts of law? That is unfair.

 

Madam Speaker, I recall that on 18^th January, 2022, there was an article in a tabloid called the News Diggers that the President had indicated that there is a clique of thieves who are now tutoring his Ministers and Permanent Secretaries (PSs) on how to steal money meant for our poor citizens. I would like to know how far the investigative wings have gone with investigating those hon. Ministers or PSs who were mentioned by the President. Further, the President should have mentioned those hon. Ministers and PSs, and the action that he has taken so that we are vindicated.

 

Madam Speaker, is it arrogant for me to ask why there is no drip water in hospitals and this is very true? On Saturday, I visited the Patriotic Front (PF) Whip, Hon. Kampyongo, and immediately I reached his home, he received a telephone call that one of his relatives had high blood pressure. So, I escorted him to the relative’s house and we took him to Chilenje Level One Hospital where the health staff attended to him but there was no lactated ringer's solution, sometimes called normal saline, the water they put in the drip. However, last week, I heard the hon. Minister of Health speaking in an affirmative that these services are provided.

 

Madam Speaker, hon. Ministers are the messiahs of this nation. We had our time and citizens are able to judge what we did in our various capacities or as a collective past administration. Hon. Ministers are the messiahs, and they are supposed to provide services to our people, to us. We look up to them. We approved their Budget and they have money. Let them prioritise areas where there is a need for health centres or health facilities in order for them to save life.

 

Madam Speaker, is it immoral for me to ask for clarification on the distribution of health facilities across the country because, on the Floor of this House, it has been indicated that ...

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Members, you are disturbing the hon. Member debating.

 

Mr Katambo: ... these facilities were given according to regionalism. I expected the President to indicate how they distributed the health facilities in all the regions. That is very important and, then, we will deal with the fundamental issue of love and equality, so that these facilities are distributed in an equitable manner.

 

Madam Speaker, is it unethical for the people of Masaiti to ask why the President is not living at State House, including some hon. Ministers here who are not living in the ministerial residential homes? We are just concerned because we want the Government to save money.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security indicated that the Government got some money which was corruptly obtained and serviced over 2,000 students and that is what we want to see. That is what everybody wants to see, including the people of Masaiti.

 

Madam Speaker, one visitor from Masaiti who was staying in Lilayi on his way to meet me got stranded when security officers could not allow them to pass because the President was passing. If the President lived in State House and our hon. Colleagues lived in their ministerial residential homes, would this not be a cost saving measure to the nation? However, when we speak these things, it is described as hypocrisy. You cannot speak on behalf of the person who said the word hypocrisy, unless he clarifies what he meant himself. So, you cannot put words in the mouth of the person who said the word hypocrisy. Maybe, he means well in his describing all what is happening to our former Heads of State as hypocrisy.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving the good people of Solwezi East an opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Motion on the Floor of the House.

 

Madam Speaker, I seem to have a feeling of deep seriousness on the Motion that I want to debate.

 

Madam Speaker, the President addressed this House on the progress made in the application of national values and principles. He alluded to a number of factors, but allow me to single out a key or fundamental issue, and that is on morality and ethics.

 

Madam Speaker, zeroing in on that aspect, the President talked about a number of issues, but then, I just want to single out corruption. I recall that on 15^th March, when we were mourning the Fourth President of the Republic of Zambia, – actually 15^th March marked nine years, when in this House, eighty hon. Patriotic Front (PF) Members voted on the Motion to remove the immunity of the former President, the Fourth Republican President, despite the fact that the previous day, he had appealed to the High Court for Parliament not to debate the grounds for lifting his immunity.

 

Madam Speaker, based on morality and ethics, the Fourth Republican President did not intervene despite the matter being in court. The then Speaker of the National Assembly allowed the hon. Members of Parliament to debate that Motion, and that is morality. His immunity was lifted by eighty hon. Members of Parliament on the left-hand side and that is morality. The following day, the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) summoned the Fourth Republican President and he went and appeared on issues of corruption. He did not intervene and that is morality, and our President has actually shown that we are on the right trajectory.

 

Madam Speaker, the Fourth Republican President said he had no ill feelings against anybody who genuinely intended to have his immunity lifted. In this House, there are more than eighty hon. United Party for National Development (UPND) Members and precedent has been set, and that is morality.

 

Madam Speaker, the then hon. Minister of Justice brought a Motion on the Floor and we currently have the hon. Minister of Justice. Deep down in my heart, I believe that morality can also be exemplified by the precedent that has been set. A Motion can be moved here, so that morality is upheld because a precedent has been set. We saw that despite the issue having been in the High Court, the Speaker showed morality by allowing the hon. Members of Parliament to debate that Motion and the immunity was lifted, and that is morality.

 

Madam Speaker, moving forward, the President stated that we have at least made some progress regarding corruption, though he indicated that a lot more needs to be done. I believe that a lot more can be done through the more than eighty hon. UPND Members in this Parliament by following the precedent that was set nine years ago. That is morality.

 

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, my point of order is pursuant to Standing Order 65, on content of speech. Is the hon. Member debating in order to keep referring to precedent? In short, he is just debating Parliament when our Standing Orders are very clear on relevance of debate. He is supposed to debate His Excellency the President’s Speech, on the progress made in the application of our values and principles.

 

Madam Speaker, he has completely gone off tangent, insinuating that this House should go into the business of removing the immunity of former Heads of State. It is too well versed that Dr Kaunda’s immunity was removed, but nothing happened. Dr Chiluba’s immunity was removed, but nothing happened. RB (Rupiah Banda)’s immunity, may his soul rest in peace, was also removed, but nothing happened. We wish that even when President HH (Hakainde Hichilema) leaves office, no one will touch him when it comes to immunity.

 

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member in order to discuss the removal of former Presidents’ immunities instead of him addressing the House on the progress made in the application of our values and principles? I seek your serious ruling before the hon. Member starts misleading the nation.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, you have different views on the speech. Sometimes, they are similar and, sometimes, they are so different. The only word I heard from the hon. Member’s debate is morality and I am also listening very attentively to see where it is leading us. It is like it started from somewhere and is heading somewhere. So, I am waiting for the conclusion, but otherwise, there is a connection between the President’s Address and some of the things that the hon. Member is saying. So, he is not out of order.

 

However, hon. Member, can you conclude so that we can all agree that you are actually addressing the President’s Speech. You are just giving us history and we do not know where we are heading to.

 

You may continue, hon. Member.

 

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, the issue of morality requires attention so that people actually understand before I make a conclusion.

 

Madam Speaker, morality is not seeing people going to have a meeting on the Copperbelt and composing songs that ‘Ubupuba’, meaning foolishness. That is insulting Zambians and saying Zambians voted on a cow instead of a boat.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, that is actually immorality. Now, the President talked about morality and that is where I am actually heading to. Our good Republican President simply stated that some progress has been made in the area of morality and I singled out the concept of corruption.

 

Madam Speaker, morality is when we saw the First Republican President giving up power for a day, which was actually dubbed as ‘a night when Zambia had no President’ because he believed in morality. He looked at regionalism whereby certain positions were only being given to people from Luapula and Northern provinces, and President Kaunda had to resign. That is morality because he knew that that kind of regionalism would lead to corruption and that cannot lead a nation to develop.

 

Madam Speaker, based on that and the precedents that have been set – I am now concluding – all that the people of Solwezi East and I expect is that we follow the precedents regarding morality in order to fight corruption because the President said more needs to be done regarding corruption. So, what is that more that needs to be done? We also expect the eighty plus hon. UPND Members to one day uphold that morality when that moral paper is laid on the Floor to lift certain immunities, so that morality can be espoused and upheld, just like what happened to the Fourth Republican President after his immunity was removed. The court actually justified why his immunity should be returned and it was returned. So, we expect the same procedure so that the immunity of those who are found guilty is upheld and that of those not guilty is returned. That is morality.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, I am humbled to contribute to the debate on the President’s Address on the application of national values and principles, on behalf of the good people of Nalolo.

 

Firstly, Madam Speaker, may I take this opportunity to convey my condolences to the family of the late Christine Mulundika, whose participation in governance and independence contributed to the jurisprudence of this country, vis-à-vis the Public Order Act.

 

Madam Speaker, I would like to state from the outset that the President’s Speech was very clear for me and the good people of Nalolo. It addressed the fundamental thematic areas that should bind us as a people. Therefore, I will not enter into the depth of too many issues. I have chosen to debate on three thematic areas that the President addressed, which include patriotism, national unity, democracy and constitutionalism, and sustainable development.

 

Madam Speaker, the President spoke of constitutional amendments, which include those that will subsequently end unnecessary by-elections and we welcome this as the good people of Nalolo. We propose that these constitutional amendments include clauses that will allow us as hon. Members of Parliament interrogate the President after he addresses the House and that is what advanced democracies like South Africa do. I know the hon. Minister of Justice is here and this is the first proposal from the good people of Nalolo. Further, in view of the address on national principles and values, we further propose that we also have an address on the state of the economy more regularly.

 

Madam Speaker, on democracy and constitutionalism, the President has shown clearly, through speech, that he has the determination to bring progressive clauses. On sustainable development, the President mentioned that we now have forty-seven local companies that are certified to use the official ‘proudly Zambian’ logo compared to thirty-three in 2020, and this is commendable. However, other fundamental issues need to be addressed. For example, he talked about value chains but we still have a problem with value chains. We are still encouraging the export of maize, but why can we not add value on maize and export it as a finished product. We should export more mealie meal so that we can create employment locally. We still need to grow our value chains and answer questions like why milk imported from Kenya is cheaper than milk produced locally, and this is because there is no clear daily value chain. However, there is some commendable progress that has been made in the six months that the Government has been in power.

 

Madam Speaker, on patriotism and national unity, it is highly commendable that the tension that was in the country has reduced.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Wamunyima: Madam Speaker, cadreism should never ever show its ugly face on the democracy of this country. It is commendable that the President has chosen to disown any individual who propels the agenda of cadreism, and this is welcome.

 

Madam Speaker, morality in this country is a big problem. The President addressed the issue of Information Communication Technology (ICT) and social media abuse. This still reaffirms that stringent measures need to be taken on those abusing ICT and setting a wrong example to the youths, those whose agenda may not even be known through their conduct on social media.

 

Madam Speaker, alcohol abuse and suicide cases that have become rampant have more or less to do with mental health issues that the hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Services addressed. The people of Nalolo propose that the Mental Health Act be amended to suit the present needs, to add other social factors that are present. Some people look smart and dress well but they are suffering from mental health issues.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Wamunyima: So, the Mental Health Act must be amended to attend to these people who are dangerously roaming the streets and can commit suicide.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Wamunyima: Madam Speaker, I am advised that they may be some people whom we know.

 

Madam Speaker, the other issue I want to talk about is the fight against corruption. It is commendable that the President has extended amnesty to those who participated in corruption. However, the people of Nalolo are saying that these people must be arrested.

 

Madam Speaker, one adage of a Greek philosopher says that ‘the greatest kindness cannot even bind an ungrateful person’. So, if people unrepentantly looted Government resources, they must face the wrath of the law. We ask the President and the Executive to fight corruption aggressively because it is not enough to say they must give in. People do not want lamentations of what was stolen. They want drugs in hospitals and roads to be worked on. The people of Nalolo want electricity; that is what we want. Wherever these people who allegedly looted Government resources are, the long arm of the law must follow them. However, we have recently seen that the long arm of the law has started to visit them and we commend this.

 

Madam Speaker, the free education policy is a game changer in reducing poverty in this country. Education is the final equaliser and we commend this. We would also like to advance the agenda that in reducing child marriages, there is a need to strengthen the policy on comprehensive sexual education in schools to educate our children so that we reduce the unwanted pregnancies.

 

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, from the outset, I support this Motion and the speech was timely delivered and, in my view, unites us.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Katakwe: On a point of order Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, thank you –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 207, on contempt of the House.

 

“(1)   contempt of the House refers to an act, mission or conduct, which obstructs or impedes either the House or members or officer in the discharge of their duties.”

 

Madam Speaker, when I took my seat after concluding my debate on morality, the hon. Member who just came back to the House today based on the jurisdiction of the court, Hon. Lusambo, as he was walking out, turned and looked at me so suspiciously, threateningly, intimidatingly and dangerously.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, I want this to be on record because if anything happens out there, the House should know. He turned three times and looked at me, and that also happened when I raised the Motion that had him removed from the House. He pointed his finger at me; it is there even on video and in the Hansard, and today, it was the way he looked at me. Was that morally right?

 

 I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you should have raised that point of order when the incident happened because we were supposed to see that. Now, we do not even know whether it is true, or it was a friendly look or a brotherly look and we cannot even tell. We will take it that it was on a light moment.

 

May the hon. Member for Kantanshi continue.

 

Mr Mumba: Madam Speaker, as I rise to add my voice on behalf of the people of Kantanshi, on the progress report that was issued to the House by His Excellency, President Hakainde Hichilema, I would like to join my colleagues in raising a number of issues, which I term as a cocktail of issues, that we need to interrogate so as to make informed decisions as to whether we are really making progress.

 

Madam Speaker, I commend the hon. Minister for presenting a ministerial statement on suicide, which I thought took long to be issued, because we have seen too many deaths. The Government can come up with a policy and review what the Ministry of Health is doing about mental health, and we could easily save some lives before suicide becomes a cultural norm where when some people have challenges, that is the easiest way to end them by creating even more problems for society when they kill themselves. So, I thank the Government for that.

 

Madam Speaker, in the progress report, there are a number of issues that the people of Kantanshi are interested in. Firstly, the President spoke about buying Zambian products. One agrees with me that the cost of living is rising simply because of our huge dependence on imported products. We do not seem to be harnessing the basic goods that we are producing in Zambia. In view of our high dependence on imported products, the cost of living is high, which has become a problem for the Government. However, when salaries are increased, it simply means you are now initiating inflation, which will make the economy quite unsustainable, considering we are already in a recession. So, we need to interrogate the forty-seven local companies that are certified to use the official ‘proudly Zambian’ logo and evaluate what they are bringing on the market and how our local taxes can be used to ensure that we have affordable goods and services in our homes because if we do not do that –

 

Madam Speaker, in many cases it surprises me that on one hand, you produce sugar and on the other hand, your own people cannot afford that sugar. So, who are you producing it for? On one hand, you produce mealie meal and on the other hand, the people themselves cannot buy it. Who is it for? Who determines the cost structure of these products to an extent that they do not support our homes? So, the 500 plus products that are so far benefiting from the Buy Zambia Campaign should translate into the cost of food or other goods being cheaper because that is the only way we can strengthen our economy.

 

 Madam Speaker, I also noticed that the President talked about unemployment, an issue that is grappling almost all countries. As I have said, we are in a recession, but the Government intends to create 11,200 jobs for example, for health workers. K900 million has already been provided for this but I asked myself why the Government did not consider apprenticeship programmes because if it can employ 11,200 people, it can actually employ over 50,000 people and build their capacities in terms of experience. As the economy continues to grow, those permanent jobs will become competitive amongst the apprenticeship programmes. So, I hope the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning will consider apprenticeship programmes because that is one way we can build employment capacity amongst teachers, nurses and so on and so forth.

 

Madam Speaker, the fight against corruption is something that my hon. Colleagues have referred to and, indeed, members of the Patriotic Front (PF) want the Executive to act and act now, and that is something that I equally welcome. It does not feel honourable to be called corrupt as a party when some of us do even have an idea of what was happening. I am glad the leadership has, on the Floor of the House, emphasised the fight against corruption.  I think that will work for all of us in this country.

 

Madam Speaker, let me end by commenting on the progress that has been made so far. Indeed, we can see the rule of law bearing fruit.

 

 Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mumba: Indeed, we can see that the issue of cadreism is bearing fruit. Where progress has been made, there is nothing wrong with patting somebody on the back ...

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mumba: … because it is for the benefit of everybody. If this country is seen –

 

Madam Speaker, there is a thin line between economic stability and political stability and how you are viewed politically influences all the activities that you do to encourage foreign direct investment (FDI) and investment in a certain sector, and so on and so forth. So, once we prove that as a country we are politically stable, then, we will move economically.

 

With those few words, Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving the people of Kantanshi an opportunity.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I can see that only one lady has indicated to debate, the hon. Member for Kabwe Central.

 

 Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving the people of Kabwe Central Constituency an opportunity to contribute to the debate on the President’s Speech, on the progress made in the application of national values and principles so far.

 

Madam Speaker, the people of Kabwe Central Constituency are very happy and moved by the speech made by the President to report on the progress made in the application of national values and principles because, indeed, it is eminent and no one cannot dispute the fact that the country has made a U-turn from where it was and the direction it was heading to destruction, to where it is now.

 

 Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Halwiindi: Madam Speaker, on morality and ethics, the President spoke well and gave a direction that, as people of Zambia, we need to make sure that we distinguish between wrong and right, and good and evil. Once we start distinguishing, we will take the right direction and we can even learn from how His Excellency the President is leading this country by making sure that all of us behave in a way that befits Zambians. We should be able to make sure that we put our country before our own interest and the President was quick to say that more needs to be done.

 

 Madam Speaker, the issue of teenage pregnancy and early marriages is affecting our girls in almost all the constituencies, and Kabwe Central Constituency has not been spared on this issue. Many girls are falling pregnant and there are early marriages. So, I urge the relevant ministries responsible for the Child Code Bill to make sure that it is presented in this House. I suggest that the minimum age for a child to get married be raised to twenty years. Further, the Marriage Act should not only favour the girl child in town but also the girl child in the village, who undergoes customary marriage. For that reason, the people of Kabwe Central Constituency, especially the girls, suggest that the age limit for one to get married be twenty-one years so that we give the girl child chance to go to school.

 

Madam Speaker, on patriotism and national unity, I would like to quote from a book which says as follows:

 

“The good man brings good things out of his good store of treasure, and the bad man brings evil things out of his evil store of treasure.”

 

Madam Speaker, our President has led by example that we need to act exemplarily good. As leaders, the words that come out of our mouths should be of love and unity in this country. The President spoke a lot on the issue to do with unity and that is what all of us should preach. As leaders, the words that come out of our mouths are supposed to be checked. There is no way that today we preach love, and the next day or just when people are uniting, then you say words aimed at dividing the country. So, we should check what we preach to our people, and I urge all Zambians at large to do that.

 

Madam Speaker, on good governance and integrity, His Excellency our President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, has clearly said that he detests corruption. He cannot be bribed, bought, swayed or coerced in doing something wrong, and this is what is expectant of every Zambian. We should make sure that we do not fall prey to bribes. In this case, I want to dwell much on corruption.

 

Madam Speaker, in trying to fight corruption, the President made it clear that we are not fighting anyone but wants to make sure that whatever has been stolen or taken unlawfully is returned to the national coffers because we have to care for a child suffering or a widow out there. We tell hon. Ministers that a road or hospital was abandoned because our much-needed resources were taken away wrongfully and unlawfully. So, this is what the President wants – in the Bible, it is written that Zacchaeus said he will return what he stole even double. So, the President is urging us to return what does not belong to us so that it is used for our people who are suffering.

 

Madam Speaker, the President talked about empowering the youths. Many are times I have heard, especially the people on the left, ask the Government why it is not empowering the youths and why it is doing this and that. Alas, we forget about what I have just spoken about. We need to return what was wrongfully taken away so that we are able to empower the youths.

 

Madam Speaker, we should apply moral values. Imagine one person having forty-seven exploration licences meanwhile the President said that that should not be case. We need to make sure that our youths are given licences and a share of what belongs to them. We need to make sure that we preserve our natural resources; they are ours and for our children’s children. If we do not take a step to preserve our natural resources, then, the Zambia we will have tomorrow will be doomed and very poor. So, let us support our President by making sure that – I hope the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development was here but we should make sure that we adhere to the Mines and Minerals Act religiously. Wherever the mining companies mine the minerals, they should make sure that they support socio- economic development in such areas. There is no need for us not to have roads in areas where there are many minerals. We have timber and there is no way we can speak of there not being boarding schools in certain areas but meanwhile, we have natural resources in those areas. Whatever we have has to leave a mark in those areas. The Government should make sure that our people see the benefits and fruits of our natural resources. I also urge hon. Ministers to make sure that our children benefit from timber licences and mining licences because the President has given that directive.

 

Madam Speaker, with those few words, I thank you so much. Let us make sure that we support the President’s Speech and follow it religiously and become morally right people with good ethics, then, we will see the much-needed development in our country.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chinkuli (Kanyama): Madam Speaker, on behalf of the people of Kanyama, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to add a word to the debate on the Floor, in relation to the President’s Address on the progress made in the application of national values and principles.

 

Madam Speaker, these values are provided for in the Constitution and they bind all the arms of the Government, the Legislature, the Executive and the Judiciary. No institution is left out as far as national values and principles are concerned. The manner in which the Constitution and other laws are interpreted should be in conformity with the national values and principles. When this this House is enacting laws, it should take into account the national values and principles. The Executive is not spared, so, when it develops and interprets state policies, it needs to embrace the principles provided for in the Act.

 

Madam Speaker, the manner in which the Constitution was being looked at in the recent past leaves much to be desired. Considering the manner in which the country conducted itself, one would think there were no laws governing the country. One agrees with me that when one goes against the Constitution, that is treasonable and not what we were seeing as issues that would amount to treason.

 

Madam Speaker, Article 45 (a) of the Constitution clearly provides that citizens are free to exercise their political rights but what we saw in the recent past was unbelievable. Like I said, it seemed there were no laws in place and we saw that there was discrimination. When you were affiliated to a political party of your choice, you were – We were short of just being sent to a dungeon of some kind. A person was discriminated against upon hearing that he/she subscribed to the United Party for National Democracy (UPND). Our members in society were victimised.

 

Madam Speaker, Article 60 of the Constitution provides that a political party has the right to –

 

1. disseminate information on –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, order!

 

Are you discussing the Constitution or the President’s Speech? Focus on the President’s Address. You can incorporate the Constitution but focus on the President’s Address.

 

Mr Chinkuli: Thank you for the guidance, Madam Speaker. What I am trying to say is that there was a complete separation between what was happening, and what the country was guided through the laws.

 

 Madam Speaker, strides have been made under the UPND Government. In the recent past, we passed a Motion moved by Hon. Jamba on a lifestyle audit of hon. Members of Parliament. That was a huge milestone towards the fight against corruption. When that Act is fully fledged, it will give indicators when a corrupt act is about to take place and it will be easy for it to be detected and curbed. By so doing, the funds that could have been misappropriated because of the corrupt practice will go to the people of Kanyama and they will be able to be funded as they do their businesses. As you may be aware, Kanyama has been neglected because of corrupt acts by us leaders.

 

Madam Speaker, on the issue of violence, we are guided by the law. The day His Excellency the President was sworn in, he mentioned that he did not want any political cadres and he has been following that up from time to time and he stated that anyone who goes against the law is on his/her own. That is morality unlike what used to happen before where someone would make a blanket statement and say we do not want this, but what would happen on the ground would be something else. That was immoral.

 

Madam Speaker, look at how the President has ventured into uniting the country, and the composition of the Cabinet of the New Dawn Government. It is composed of people from all the ten provinces of this country. Any other person and I will attest to the fact that, yes, strides have been made so that the country can unite. At no time did I hear His Excellency talk about marginalising anyone. He wants each and every one to be united. That emanates from the UPND manifesto and he has been consistently stating that we want to have a ‘One Zambia, One Nation’ and that people should benefit equally from the resources that the country has.

 

Madam Speaker, there are cries that some people should be locked up for the UPND Government to prove that it is indeed fighting corruption. The New Dawn Government has adopted the concept of the rule of law. It is through the law that people will be charged and incarcerated. In conclusion, I urge those who want to see that happen to calm down and to wait and see how the law will perform.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chala (Chipili): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the President’s Speech on behalf of the people of Chipili, and in particular the people of Luapula Province as their representative. I have mentioned them because some people here mentioned my province, which in their view does not deserve what it has.

 

Madam Speaker, first and foremost, I salute the preamble that the President made. The President has reaffirmed that Zambia is a Christian nation. Going forward, I feel that no one should bring a Motion which contradicts Christian values such as bigamy …

 

Hon. Member: How about stealing? Thou shall not steal.

 

Mr Chala: … or homosexuality.

 

Madam Speaker, let me talk about patriotism, nationalism and national unity vis-à-vis social justice and corruption, according to the President’s Speech.

 

Madam Speaker, I am yet to understand whether my hon. Colleagues support the President’s Speech. I heard some of them debate about national unity, but I think they are not in support of the speech because they are very bitter of what happened in the previous Government.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, we are not supposed to discuss ourselves. Just focus on the speech, minus debating yourselves.

 

Mr Chala: Madam Speaker, I am prompted to mention my province because when I heard somebody talk about it, I felt my people deserve better. However, what I am trying to say is that what was bad for the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is bad for the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government and it should not be tolerated. They do not expect us to agree with everything, but we talked about the appointment of the Minister for Northern Province and the Minister for Luapula Province in the previous Government.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Chala: Madam Speaker, we are very correct. Was that right?

 

Hon. PF Members: No.

 

Mr Chala: Madam Speaker, the answer is no. Now, in the UPND Government, all the important positions in this land have been going to …

 

Hon. Government Members: Where?

 

Mr Chala: … three regions.

 

 Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Chala: Madam Speaker, is it right?

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Chala: Madam Speaker, am I protected?  

 

 Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!              

 

Mr Chaatila: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Chaatila: Madam Speaker, my point of order is very simple. Is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to mislead this nation by saying that appointments have just been done in three regions? Is he in order to insinuate that, without laying any piece of document which will attest to that?

 

Madam Speaker, my point of order is according to Standing Order No. 65(b), and I seek your ruling.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chipili, do you have evidence that the people appointed in the high offices are from three regions?

 

Mr Chala: Madam Speaker, if I research, I can bring that evidence before you but I do not have it here. However, I withdraw the statement …

 

Hon. Government Members: Apologise!

 

Mr Chala: … but it has gone viral. I cannot apologise. I have just withdrawn the statement.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, did you say you withdraw the word or the whole sentence?

 

Mr Chala: The whole sentence, Madam Speaker.

     

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You may continue.

 

 Mr Chala: Madam Speaker, I was saying that a wrong is a wrong. What was wrong in the PF Government is wrong in the Government of the day.

 

Madam Speaker, we have seen what is going on in this country. We are failing to buy medicine since the New Dawn Government took over. The reason could be that most people who have been recruited as directors are failing to make decisions in fear of losing their jobs. However, why did they not use the method that they used when they were procuring fertiliser and did not follow the tender procedure? They can do the same thing, then, they can come and actually say that this is what they bought, but because of the urgency of the matter, we will support them. We do not want excuses.

 

 Mr Chaatila: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you may continue. There is just a minute left.

 

Mr Chala: Madam Speaker, my time is running out. Let me quickly talk about corruption.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

(Debate adjourned)

 

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The House adjourned at 1840 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 23^rd March, 2022.

 

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