Thursday, 18^th November, 2021

 

The House met at 1430 hours

 

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

 

______

 

RULING BY MADAM SPEAKER

 

ON GUIDANCE SOUGHT BY HON. B. MUNDUBILE, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION AND MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR MPOROKOSO CONSTITUENCY, ON THE ADMISSIBILITY OF THE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE RAISED BY HON. M. KAFWAYA, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR LUNTE CONSTITUENCY

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, the House will recall that on Tuesday, 16^th November, 2021, after I had provided guidance on a matter of urgent public importance raised by Hon. M. Kafwaya, Member of Parliament for Lunte Parliamentary Constituency, Hon. B. Mundubile, Leader of the Opposition and Member of Parliament for Mporokoso Constituency, sought guidance on the admissibility of the matter of urgent public importance raised by Hon. Kafwaya citing Standing Order No. 135(1)(c) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021.

 

Hon. Members, the issue raised by Hon. B. Mundubile was whether or not the matter of some ministries operating without controlling officers qualified as a matter of urgent public importance according to Standing Order No. 135(1)(c) of the Standing Orders. In my immediate response, I reserved my ruling in order to examine the provisions of Standing Order No. 135(1). I have since studied the matter, and I will now render my ruling.

 

Hon. Members, I wish to begin by giving a background to what gave rise to Hon. Mundubile’s seeking guidance on Standing Order No. 135(1)(c).

 

Hon. Members, as you may recall, Hon. Kafwaya had raised a matter of urgent public importance under Standing Order No. 134, which he directed to the Vice-President and Leader of Government Business in the House, on the failure by the Executive to appoint Permanent Secretaries (PSs), who are controlling officers in some ministries. In response, I explained that Standing Order No. 135(1) and (2) provided the criteria for the admission of matters of urgent public importance under Standing Order No. 134. In that regard, I ruled that the matter that had been raised by Hon. Kafwaya was not one that required the urgent attention of the Government to avert a catastrophe or prevent death and that it, therefore, did not qualify to be raised under Standing Order No. 134. Following my ruling, Hon. Mundubile sought guidance on the admissibility of matters of urgent public importance, particularly in the light of Standing Order No. 135(1)(c), which relates to matters involving the administrative or ministerial responsibility of the Government.

 

Hon. Members, Standing Order No. 135 sets out the criteria for determining whether or not a matter qualifies to be of urgent public importance and to be raised under Standing Order No. 134. Under Standing Order No. 135(1), the following must hold for a matter to be admissible:

 

1. it is a case of recent occurrence;
2. it does not relate to a general state of affairs;
3. it involves the administrative or ministerial responsibility of the Government;
4. it requires the immediate attention of the House and the Government; and
5. it deals with only one substantive issue.

 

Additionally, Standing Order 135(2) provides for when a matter will not be admitted as a matter of urgent public importance. The circumstances are the following:

 

1. it has not been raised at the earliest opportunity;
2. it has already been discussed by the House during the same Session;
3. it is not so serious as to require urgent attention; or
4. it is sub judice.

 

Hon. Members, I wish to emphasise that for a matter to be admitted as a matter of urgent and public importance, it must satisfy all the criteria set out in Standing Order No. 135(1) and (2). If any element is missing, then it is inadmissible.

 

I now address the issue of Standing Order No. 135(1)(c), which states as follows:

 

“35. (1) A matter is admissible as a matter of urgent public importance if –

  "(c) it involves the administrative or ministerial responsibility of the Government;”

Hon. Members, that a matter involves the administrative or ministerial responsibility of the Government is just one of the elements that need to be taken into consideration when determining whether a matter qualifies as a matter of urgent public importance. There are other requirements, as outlined in Standing Order No. 135, that also need to be met, including the matter being so serious as to require urgent attention.

 

Hon. Members, I provided guidance to this House on what constitutes an urgent matter in my Ruling on a matter of urgent public importance raised by Hon. R. Chitotela, Member of Parliament for Pambashe Constituency, against the Her Honour the Vice-President and Leader of Government Business in the House (See the Parliamentary Debates for Wednesday, 22^nd September, 2021). In that ruling, I explained what constitutes an urgent matter as follows:

 

“Serious and urgent matters that only a Member of Parliament could be privy to and which if not brought to the immediate attention of the House, could result in a catastrophe leading to loss of life or property.”

 

Therefore, while the matter raised by Hon. Kafwaya satisfied Standing Order No. 135(1)(c), it did not meet the other set criteria, such as being sufficiently serious to require the urgent attention of the Executive to prevent a catastrophe leading to death or loss of property. It is for this reason that I ruled the matter under Standing Order No. 134.

 

Hon. Members, I have also noticed an emerging trend of hon. Members raising matters of urgent public importance under Standing Order No. 135, and I want to seize this opportunity to guide that an hon. Member can only rise on a matter of urgent public importance under Standing Order No. 134, not Standing Order No. 135, because Standing Order No. 135 merely supplements Standing Order No. 134 by providing the admissibility criteria for a matter of urgent public importance.  Further, a matter of urgent public importance must submit all the admissibility criteria under Standing Order No. 135 before it can be admitted. If it stands only on one leg, it will not be admitted. I, therefore, urge all hon. Members to familiarise themselves with the admissibility criteria for matters of urgent public importance and only raise matters when they are satisfied that all the criteria set out in Standing Order No. 135 are met.

 

Thank you.

 

________

 

MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

 

BY HON. B. LUSAMBO, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR KABUSHI, ON RISING CRIME LEVELS IN THE COUNTRY

 

Mr Lusambo: On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

 

Mr Lusambo: Madam Speaker, I rise on a matter of urgent public importance, a public interest matter, under Standing Order No. 134. 

 

Madam Speaker: What is the matter of urgent public importance that the hon. Member for Kabushi wishes to raise?

 

Mr Lusambo: Madam Speaker, it is a matter that has come from the cry of the Zambian people, who want the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, and the Government at large to come up with urgent solutions to that matter.

 

Madam Speaker: You may proceed.

 

Mr Lusambo: Madam Speaker, since the coming of the United Party for National Development (UPND) into Government, the country has seen rising levels of crime in our country. The residents of Lusaka, the Copperbelt, and many towns in this country are crying that there is an increase in crime today in this country. You cannot even visit the market. I know that the time you were growing up in Mongu, Madam Speaker, my grandmother used to send you to the market to buy litapi, but this time –

 

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

 

Do not include me in your debate. Just raise your point of order.

 

Mr Lusambo: Madam Speaker, thank you.

 

Madam Speaker, the crime in this country started after 12^th August, 2021, in shopping malls. We experienced a lot of theft in shopping malls. The vehicles of the clients visiting shopping malls were being attacked, and many items, including money, were being lost. Restaurants –Then, they moved to the streets of Lusaka and many other streets across the country. As I speak, the crime has moved to our homes. At night and during daylight, our people are being attacked and robbed across the country.

 

Madam Speaker, even we, hon. Members of Parliament from both sides, are not safe, especially when the criminals see Hon. Jack Mwiimbu smiling today when he was not smiling yesterday; they will think he is smiling because he has money, and he will be subject to attack.

 

Madam Speaker, –

 

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Kabushi!

 

Do not debate other hon. Members. Just raise your matter of urgent public importance so that we can move on.

 

Mr Lusambo: Madam Speaker, he is my elder brother. I like talking about Hon. Jack Mwiimbu because we have stayed together for quite some time. I love him.

 

Madam Speaker, today, Zambia is experiencing unprecedented levels of crime, and this crime will affect sectors like tourism. Tourists will stop coming to this country because they will be scared of being attacked. The investors will also not be spared if this crime is left unchecked, and we will lose many investors who would want to come and invest in this country.

 

Madam Speaker, the people are saying that, maybe, the rise in crime is because the many youths who were promised many jobs by the UPND have no jobs, but they have to provide for their families. So, they have no other option apart from involving themselves in these activities. Others are saying, maybe, it is because the Government has failed to pay contractors and suppliers, who had employed many youths out there but, today, those youths are all roaming our streets.

 

Madam Speaker, today, I am a very sad Member of Parliament for Kabushi Constituency and citizen of this country after seeing a woman being raped publicly because of the Government’s failure to control the accelerating levels of crime. Yes, in the past, we used to hear things like these, but not in the manner they are happening now.

 

Hon. Member: Evidence on the Table!

 

Mr Lusambo: Madam Speaker, I am just a mouthpiece. Those people who want to politicise this will be shocked, if we fail to tackle this matter, when it comes back to us. All of us, as leaders of this country, will be embarrassed. It is better we find a lasting solution to these levels of crime, which have accelerated in our country. If this matter is left unchecked, it will bring catastrophe in this country; this country will be on fire because we, as leaders, will fail to protect our citizens.

 

Madam Speaker, I need your serious advice to the Government to act on this important public matter, which is very urgent. If the Government feels that it should not act because it is Bowman, a Lamba from Mpongwe, who is asking, it is up to our colleagues. However, I can assure them that the Government representatives today are not the owners of this country. I am here as part of the leadership of today, and I want to advise them that they are where they are just to serve the people of Zambia and that the country they are serving is not theirs; it is for all of us.

 

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

 

This is not an opportunity for you to start preaching to the other side. What you are supposed to do is just raise your point, sit down and wait for the ruling. When you start debating, addressing your colleagues and giving unsolicited advice, then, you are not raising a matter of urgent public importance.

 

Mr Lusambo: Madam Speaker, this is very important, and I expected your hon. Members from the other side to take this important message as a matter of urgency because anyone is vulnerable to an attack, including us, the hon. Members of Parliament.

 

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much, hon. Member for Kabushi, for this point that you have raised. Indeed, if there is crime all over the country, all of us are in danger or at risk of being attacked. However, from your submission, it appears this issue of crime has been happening over a period now, and it does not relate to one incident, but several instances that you have referred to. Further, it involves the whole country; there are some crimes being committed all over the country. So, the matter that you have highlighted is very important, and every peace-loving Zambian is concerned about what you have stated. Unfortunately, Standing Order No. 135(1)(b) and (e) state as follows:

 

“A matter shall be considered urgent and of public importance if –

 

“(b)      it does not relate to a general state of affairs; and

 

…

 

“(e)      it deals with only one substantive issue.”

 

So, in accordance with Standing Order No. 135(1)(b) and (e), the issue that you have raised cannot qualify to be admitted as a matter of urgent public importance.

 

Government hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: However, hon. Member for Kabushi, this is not the end of the road. I stated earlier, I have guided before and I am going to repeat that if there is a concern, you can also raise a matter of urgent public importance under Standing Order No. 136. Apart from approaching the people that you say are your brothers, you can also move a Motion under Standing Order No. 136. If you need any guidance on how that can be done, you approach the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly, which will be able to guide you and prepare all the documentation on your behalf. Then that Motion will be debated accordingly in this honourable House. Nonetheless, thank you very much for raising that important concern.

 

_______

 

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM SPEAKER

 

DEATH OF HON. L. MKANDAWIRE, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR KABWATA

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to acquaint you with a fact sadly already known, that the House has lost one of its Members, namely Mr Levy Mkandawire, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwata Constituency. The late hon. Member passed away this afternoon following a traffic accident at his house in Lusaka. 

 

Hon. Members, I will convey on your behalf the condolences of the House to the bereaved family in due course. May I now request the House to rise and observe a minute of silence in honour of the memory of the late hon. Member.

 

Hon. Members of Parliament stood in silence for one minute.

 

­­_______

 

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

 

PROSPECTING OR EXPLORATION LICENCES ISSUED COUNTRYWIDE

 

90. Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe) asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

 

1. whether the Government issued any prospecting or exploration licences in the following areas countrywide from 2014 to 2019:

 

1. national parks;
2. game management areas (GMAs);
3. national forests; and
4. bird sanctuaries;

 

     b. whether there have been any litigation arising from the issuance of the licences at (a);

 

      c.  if so, how many such cases there were as of July, 2020; and

 

      d. what measures the Government is taking to avoid such legal suits.

 

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Kabuswe): Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development issued 1,254 mining rights countrywide from 2014 to 2019, broken down as follows:

 

1. national parks: fifty-three mining rights, of which five were mining licences and forty-eight were exploration licences;
2. game management areas (GMAs): 501 mining rights, of which eighty were mining licences and 421 were exploration licences;
3. national forests: 698 mining rights, of which 121 were mining licences and 577 were exploration licences; and
4. no prospecting or exploration licences were issued in bird sanctuaries during the period under review.

 

Madam Speaker, yes, there has been litigation arising from the issuance of the licences mentioned above.

 

Madam Speaker, there has been only one case, as of July, 2020.

 

Madam Speaker, at the point of issuance of mining rights, a set of terms and conditions governing the use of the licences are spelt out in writing to the licence holders. The conditions include:

 

1. a written consent from the legal occupiers or authorities responsible for the areas in question before entry, and this requirement was met; and
2. approval of the projects by the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA) after conducting thorough environmental impact assessments (EIA), and a decision letter by ZEMA was given.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Lusambo (Kabushi): Madam Speaker, the people of Kabushi want to know the names of the companies that were given exploration licences and the parks we are talking about.

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I will gladly come back with a comprehensive list of the 1,252 companies and lay it on the Table of the House. The list was not attached to this response.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Kamondo: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the work that the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA) is doing. However, is the New Dawn Administration satisfied with the policies that have been put in place to make sure that exploration companies do not endanger our GMAs?

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, Hon. Kamondo’s questions are always very enlightening.

 

Madam Speaker, let me give an example of what we did at the weekend. There is a mine near a game reserve, and we took a trip there with the people who want to invest in that area and officers from my ministry and the ministries of Lands and Natural Resources, and  Tourism, and made an aerial observation of what is happening there, which shows that this Government is quite serious about striking a balance between game reserves and investments in mining activities.

 

Madam Speaker, we are quite serious about making sure that there are no conflicts because each activity is important to the economic development of our country. We also want to make sure that even as we do those activities, we follow the law. That is why before issuing a mining licence, we always ensure that there is an EIA report. So, we are quite serious about that matter, and that is why, for example, we took the trip I mentioned before mining could start; we needed to see what the impact will be, and the answers we got were very satisfactory.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, does the hon. Minister have a strategic plan for dealing with the problem that was created by the hon. Members on the left; that of having issued too many licences? That is the problem we are grappling with. If there is a plan, has he set aside some finances for it? Does the ministry plan to address the situation, especially given the fact that it does not have much capacity insofar as the staff complement is concerned?

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I am not sure if I got the hon. Member’s question, but it sounds a bit general. Can he be more specific?

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member of Parliament for Zambezi East, please, be specific in your question.

 

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, we understand where we are now; several licences were issued wantonly, some of them in areas where mining activities are not supposed to be carried out. Further, there is less capacity in the ministry to go around, inspecting and correcting the situation. Does the ministry have a strategic plan complemented with finances for carrying out an exercise to sort out the problem that was created by our colleagues?

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, the question the hon. Member has asked is not in line with the topic of our current discussion. If I am given time, I can answer it because we are doing something in terms of capacity building for the licences right across the country. I am on record saying on the Floor of this House that we were very shocked by the records that we found in terms of the licences that had been given countrywide, some of them irregularly. As a ministry, we are already carrying out an audit of exactly where the licences are and who is doing what with those licences. So, capacity building programmes have started. However, like I said, the questions that I am answering now are on national parks and bed sanctuaries.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kamondo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the answers he is giving the people of Zambia.

 

Madam Speaker, Zambia is endowed with many natural resources, and we are proud of that. However, exploration companies have sometimes done more harm than good. Some of the effects of the explorations are deforestation, soil erosion, alteration of soil profiles, and contamination of local streams and wetlands, and our people expect the New Dawn Government to change the scenario. Can the hon. Minister assure the people of Zambia that the New Dawn Government will take care of the issues I have just mentioned and that when the explorations are done, our animal habitats will not be destroyed so that we can gain a lot of money from our resources?

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, if the hon. Member followed my answer, he heard me talk about ZEMA. Of course, sometimes, we have had challenges with the agency taking too long to react, thereby allowing people take things even beyond what the agency would have allowed them. So, we are actively engaging the agency so that it can up its game and improve its reaction time to ensure that the law is applied properly. I emphasise that under His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, the New Dawn Government has not come to play games; it means business, and will monitor our mining companies’ activities, and will address deforestation. On my left, you can see the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment. So, we are very serious about these matters. The Ministry of Green Economy and Environment was created to watch the people doing various industrial activities in our country, including mining, because we do not want our country to be a desert.

 

Madam Speaker, recently, His Excellency the President went to Scotland and attended a conference on climate change, and mining is one activity that can wreak havoc insofar as climate change is concerned. So, we are very serious about using the correct mining methods. We want the mining companies to give us plans on how they will manage the environment.

 

Madam Speaker, a month or two ago, I was in Kalumbila and found that the mine has not scared away the snakes and various animals around the area. When one walks around the mine, one can actually meet the impalas and different other animals. That is what we want to encourage; the environment must be maintained even as we undertake other activities. Otherwise, we may end up making money, but die without enjoying it because of climate change. Like I said, ZEMA is a critical part of what we are doing, and we will make sure that it ups its game.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for according the people of Chifubu an opportunity to ask the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development a question.

 

Madam Speaker, some mining and exploration licences were given out in very questionable circumstances during the past regime. Does the hon. Minister have intentions to reverse such mining rights, particularly where there is conflict of economic benefits? For example, in Chifubu Constituency, in the Kaniki/Sakanya area, in particular, there is Mwekera Mine, which is owned by some Chinese Company, that sits on 40 ha of a forest that will be maturing, I think, in the next five years. Mining has started, with indiscriminate cutting down of the upcoming forestry, and that is very questionable. What is the position of the ministry on that issue? The people of Chifubu want to know.

 

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised by the hon. Member for Chama South.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I rise on a serious point of order under Standing Orders 131(7) and 133.

 

Madam Speaker, Standing Order 131(7) states as follows:

 

“A Point of Order shall relate to the interpretation or enforcement of a law on privileges of members –”.

 

Madam Speaker, Standing Order 133 states the following on the discretion to allow points of order:

 

“A presiding officer may exercise discretion over the taking of, or allowing, a Point of Order.”

 

Madam Speaker, two weeks ago, I raised this point of order on the Leader of Government Business in the House. Where I come from, in Chama, we say, sikamzyange nimfwiti yayi, Mfwiti ni tilinganenge.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mung’andu: That simply means that the one who announces a false death is a witch.

 

Madam Speaker, two weeks ago, the United Party for National Development (UPND) Facebook page announced the death of my brother, the Member of Parliament for Kabwata, Hon. Levy Mkandawire, and it was the first page to announce that my brother had died. Today, it has announced, again, the death of the same hon. Member of Parliament. This is really in contravention of the privileges of the hon. Member. Is the UPND Government in order to be announcing the death of my brother, which is very excruciating to us, family members?

 

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

 

Opposition hon. Members: Mfwiti, mfwiti!

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

 

Here, we are talking about the death of an hon. Member of this House. So, I do not expect you to make fun of his death.

 

Government hon. Member: Yes!

 

Madam Speaker: A family is mourning. Further, the point of order that the hon. Member for Chama South has raised does not even relate to the matter that was being discussed at the time he rose to on his point of order. He, himself, referred to Standing Order 131, which clearly states that, “A Point of Order shall only be raised in relation to the conduct of business of the House being transacted at the time the Point of Order is raised.” I do not believe that we were discussing the demise of our beloved hon. Member for Kabwata Constituency at the time the hon. Member for Chama South raised the point of order. So, the hon. Member for Chama South is actually out of order, and the point of order is ruled out of order; it is not admitted.

 

Hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development, answer the supplementary question.

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I hear the question from the hon. Member for Chifubu. Like I said earlier, we are undertaking a very serious audit of what has been happening in the issuance of licences because we are very serious with issues of wrong or irregular licensing.

 

Government hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kabuswe: Like I said, and I want to emphasise, please, pick the spirit in which our Government created certain ministries, such as the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment; it is because we want to protect our forests and resolve conflicts of interest among ministries in terms of which should do what. So, we are working closely with those ministries to make sure that when a decision is made, all the pros and cons of that decision are taken into consideration.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, part (b) of the question is on litigation. Can the litigation in question only be that which is against Government or can the Government also litigate against a person who has been given a mining licence? I ask this question because I want to know what is happening to the people, including big mining companies, who were given mining licences way back, but the licences have been idle. At what point is the ministry able to revoke the licence or revoke those mining licences that are idle?

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Roan talked about whether the Government can sue somebody whose licence has been irregularly given. In the first instance, it is us who issue licences. So, what I can say is that what was happening in the past is not going to repeat itself. The kind of unruliness and lawlessness that obtained in the issuance of licences in the past regime of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government are long gone because we are a Government of laws, and it is very embarrassing for the Government to be taken to court over a licence it issued and lose the case, as that means due diligence was not done before the licence was issued.

 

Madam Speaker, in terms of getting back licences, like I said, we are doing a serious audit and, if anyone will be found wanting, the licence will be revoked and given to Zambians who want to go into mining, and there will be no sacred cows.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, I am interested and concerned. The 1,254 mining rights that were issued between 2014 and 2019 have been put into two categories, namely mining licences and those for exploration. The hon. Minister has responded, and I can pick from the comments coming from other hon. Members of the House that they are concerned about the issuance of some of those licences.

 

Madam Speaker, I know I am limited to asking one question, and I will ask my question, but I would have loved to ask more than one question.

 

Madam Speaker, is it the position of the new Government to not issue any licence or mining right in any of the four area designations indicated in the question asked by the hon. Member for Mufumbwe? Is it the new policy that when someone applies for a mining or exploration licence in such areas, he/she will not be issued the licence? I ask because clearly, it is like what was done was an illegality. So, I want to know, and I am sure the House wants to know, whether the hon. Minister is announcing a new policy of the Government so that we are well guided.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, for any licence to be issued anywhere, like I said in my answer, – let me just read it again. The answer to part (d) says, “At the point of issuance of mining rights, a set of terms and conditions governing the use of licences is spelt out in writing to the holders, and the conditions include:

 

1. a written consent from the legal occupiers or authorities responsible for the areas in question before entry; and
2. approval of the project by ZEMA after a thorough EIA.

 

So, Madam Speaker, any project in any area of the country must fulfil the required conditionalities for a licence to be issued. If the conditions are not satisfied, a licence will not be issued. If the conditions are met, it will be issued.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has just answered part of the question I wanted to ask. I think I am having a challenge with the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA). When it was issuing the licences, it was supposed to do its work properly. What is the way forward now that there are so many mining licences that were issued under such circumstances?

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, the solution is to depoliticise ZEMA, and that is what we are working on. We want to make sure that people are more serious than they have been in doing things, and I think that the questions that are being asked about licences just show how disorganised our colleagues on your left were.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Kabuswe: Now, we want to bring the organisation back; institutions of governance must do what they are supposed to be doing.

 

Madam Speaker, one of the ways in which Zambia loses business is licensing taking too long or being done irregularly so that those who deserve the licences are not given them and Zambians are given a raw deal while people coming from outside the country quickly get licences. That is being brought to a stop by the New Dawn Government. So, we are strengthening institutions of governance to help in streamlining processes or making sure that things are done in the quickest possible time. This is what is going to help us to clean the mess that has been created in the issuance of licences. This has come to a stop, and I promise that in the next few months or years, it is going to be a different environment altogether.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Rev. Katuta: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing the people of Kaumbwe to add their voice to the debate on this matter. I am also thankful to the hon. Minister for giving a chronological order of our mines’ position. That said, does the Government have a list of new prospecting or exploration areas for virgin mines or mines whose licences have been revoked? Does the hon. Minister have a list of areas that are open for investors?

 

Rev. Katuta: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised by the hon. Member for Chienge.

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, I rarely rise on points of order.

 

Madam Speaker, Standing Order No. 65(1)(a) states the following:

 

“A member who is debating shall confine his or her debate to the subject under discussion.”

 

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development in order to be referring to the people he wants to refer to as his colleagues on the left as if all of us were party to the decisions that were made by the then Government?

 

UPND hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Rev. Katuta: The people of Chienge are getting worried that we were party to those decisions.

 

Mr Kabuswe: You mean they do not know what it means to be on the left and right of the House?

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to be referring to the people on your left as the people who made certain decisions?

 

Madam Speaker, I need your serious ruling.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: The only problem is the direction. Some are seated to the west while others are to the east. I am to the South.

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: So, I am not involved. Maybe, it was just a manner of expression.

 

The hon. Minister may proceed to answer the question.

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, ‘left’ means those who are in the Opposition while the ‘right’ is we, the ruling class.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, if the hon. Member has been following, I think he heard the word ‘audit’ chorused on the issue of licences. So, when the audit is done, whatever information the hon. Member wants will be laid bare, including all the maps. However, if he wants specific information, maybe, on Kaumbwe, he can come through to our ministry and we will show him what is where.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr E. Banda (Muchinga): Madam Speaker, the people of Zambia have noted with great disappointment the situation in which big mining companies have been given licences and, in most cases, the licences are for explorations, and when members of the local communities who are doing some small-scale mining in those areas ask for mining consents so that they can legalise their businesses, the mining companies have been rejecting the requests. Could the hon. Minister state whether there are any plans to help Zambian communities to get consent mining letters approved by the mining companies.

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I am not very clear because the hon. Member was speaking while chewing something. Could he, please, ask the question again.

 

Laughter

 

Mr E. Banda: Madam Speaker, I am sorry. I needed some energy.

 

Madam Speaker, what is the Government going to do to some mining companies that are rejecting Zambian communities’ requests for mining consents in areas where they have large chunks of land under their names, but they are not doing anything while the locals are trying to do some small-scale mining, which earns them a living?

 

Madam Speaker: I hope the hon. Minister has got the question now.

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, there is a provision in the law on issues of consent. So, when matters come up, we take them on a case-by-case basis. Suffice it to say that it is important that such matters are brought to the attention of the ministry. So, if the hon. Member knows of places where people’s consent requests are being refused, he can alert the ministry, and we will deal with the issue. We are quite serious, and there are many such cases that are handling as fast as we can. So, the hon. Member can come through to our ministry. I further advise the nation that those who have been aggrieved in that score can quickly visit our ministry so that we deal with these matters on a case-by-case basis.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

ZESCO’S NON-CONNECTION OF CHIENGE RESIDENTS

 

91. Rev. Katuta asked the Minister of Energy:

 

1. why some residents who paid Zesco Limited for electricity connections in 2014 in Chienge District have not had power connected to their premises;
2. what the cause of the delay in connecting the premises is; and
3. how many applications were pending as of August, 2021.

 

The Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala): Madam Speaker, currently, there are no pending connections for anyone who applied for electricity connection in 2014 in Chienge District, as all those who applied in 2014 are on supply. If the hon. Member has details of any customer who paid in 2014 and is still pending connection, I would personally be glad to receive the reference numbers so that I deal with their cases.

 

Madam Speaker, the delay in connecting the premises was due to limited resources for procurement of connection materials, as ZESCO Limited has been subsidising customer connections for years, since connection fees charged per client are not able to procure the full consignment of materials required to complete the connection. The subsidising of connections has resulted in an increase in the connection backlog. ZESCO Limited is currently connecting all pending customers, starting with the oldest applications.

 

Madam Speaker, there were 146 pending connections in Chienge District as of August, 2021, and ZESCO Limited is currently connecting the customers on a first in first out basis to foster fairness. We recognise that could be done at a faster rate, but the financial challenges at the utility company are affecting its ability to bridge the gap in financing per connection over the connection fee paid by customers.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, in response to part (b) of the question, the hon. Minister has said the delays have been attributed to ZESCO Limited subsidising the connection of electricity. My understanding is that this is a policy of the Government that does not only affect Chienge, but also the people of Mulenga Compound in Kamfinsa, Chitambo Constituency and across the nation. Does the current Government intend to continue subsidising connections so that our people can be assured of not being subjected to high connection fees, going forward?

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the current cost of connection is K5,000 while customers pay only K750. So, you can see the difference that represents ZESCO Limited’s subsidy, and I can confirm that for now, the Government will continue subsidising connections. If there is any change in policy, we will issue a statement.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, I need clarification on part (b) of the question. In answering the first part of the question, the hon. Minister stated that all applicants were connected. However, in responding to part (b), he attributed the delays to some financial constraints. It is like there was a contradiction. So, I just want to know –

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

There is some Zoom network that is on, and we are getting feedback. Is your phone also connected to the Zoom?

 

Rev. Katuta: No, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: All right. You can proceed. We  could not get the question because of the noise.

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, I just want clarity on the answer that the hon. Minister gave to parts (a) and (b). In part (a), the hon. Minister said all the 2014 applicants are connected to the power grid. However, I say that is not the case, and I will provide the hon. Minister with the list that I have. Meanwhile, in responding to part (b) of the question, he said the delays in the connections were due to financial constraints. So, now, I do not understand what his answer is. Could he clarify that.

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I was clarifying part (a) of the question, in which the hon. Member wanted to know why some residents who paid ZESCO Limited for electricity connections in 2014, in Chienge District, have not had power connected to their premises. According to the official records at ZESCO Limited, all applicants who applied in 2014 have been connected, but there was a delay. I have explained that ZESCO Limited has not stopped connecting, but due to financial constraints, the pace is slow because of a shortfall between the payment received from customers and the cost of installation

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, how long should it take for a subsidised individual to be connected to power? In Kankoyo, I have a section in Butondo where people have waited since 2013, and over 300 houses have not been connected.

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, it is the same story everywhere. The truth of the matter is that ZESCO Limited is struggling to raise money to improve on the rate of connections. So, until such a time that ZECSO has enough money, the process will be slow.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I am very worried. The people of Chama South, I must mention, are not connected and do not even know what electricity is. However, power transmission lines that have been taken there. People in Tembwe and Chikwa, where there are transmission lines, look to the hon. Minister for connections. My question is: What measures is the ministry putting in place to keep the cost of connections at the subsidised rate and, at the same time, speed up the rate of connection of the people of Chienge and the whole country, because I can see that all hon. Members are raising this point?

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, if the gentleman from Chama South was listening, he recalls that I said this is the typical situation obtaining everywhere. There was not enough money to match up the connection fees paid by customers and that until such a time that ZECSO Limited’s financial situation improved, we would not be able to speed up connections throughout the country.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, are there plans to suspend the receiving of applications for new connections? I ask this question because I am aware that more than 40,000 customers throughout the country have not yet been connected?

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, ZESCO Limited is not going to suspend the receipt of new applications, but customers should be made aware that the process is slow due to the reasons that I have already given.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, what is the way forward for the people who have paid connection fees? Part (c) of the question indicates that there are people who have paid, but are yet to be connected. The hon. Minister said the customers pay something like K700, but I think in Chienge, they have been paying over K1,000. Should the people get their refunds? What is ZESCO Limited going to do for them?

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the best way forward is to be a bit patient and wait for ZESCO’s fortunes to turn around so that everybody who is on the waiting list can be connected.

 

I thank, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Madam Speaker, in one of the responses to the questions, the hon. Minister indicated that ZESCO Limited is heavily subsidising connections. At what point does the money spent by ZESCO become a subsidy to the customer? I ask this question because when connecting, I want to believe that the utility poles and cables that are installed are the property of ZESCO Limited, and customers pay fixed charges for as long as thirty years.

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the subsidy comes in the difference between the actual cost of the connection and the amount paid by the customer. The customer pays K750, but ZESCO Limited spends K5,000 on the service cables from the pole to the house, and on installing the metre. So, the difference of K4,250 is the subsidy to the customer.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Mapani (Namwala): Madam Speaker, why has ZESCO Limited continued to receive payments for connections when it knows it has a lot of work it has not attended to?

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I do not think it will be wise for anybody to stop applying for electricity connections because they want electricity as energy in their homes or on their farms. So, it is a question of being a bit patient with ZESCO Limited. Surely, their turn will come, although it might not come soon because of the financial challenges that ZESCO Limited is going through.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Kolala (Lufubu): Madam Speaker, I also seek clarification from the hon. Minister on the financial constraints on the part of ZESCO Limited.

 

Madam Speaker, there are people who have been waiting for these connections we are talking about for between two years and five years. Are we grouping all of them into the same category because there have been financial difficulties? If ZESCO Limited has had financial difficulties for all these years, what is management doing to address that issue? Let us not be academic, but practical.

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, to be practical is to understand that when there is no money, there is nothing we can do.

 

I thank, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has repeatedly emphasised the point that ZESCO Limited is struggling to get money or finances. If ZESCO Limited is struggling, what activities is ZESCO Limited is undertaking to raise money? 

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I cannot itemise the activities that ZESCO Limited is involved in now, but I remember that I made a ministerial statement to the fact that ZESCO Limited has a huge debt of US$3.5 billion, and I am sure that is enough for anybody to realise why we are facing all these challenges in connecting customers.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Amb. Kalimi (Malole): Madam Speaker, since ZESCO Limited seems to be struggling in terms of operations, does the Government have the intention of privatising it?

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I was answering the question on connectivity. Privatisation is a topic for another day.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Laughter

 

Opposition hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: On that note, we move on.

 

CONSTRUCTION OF COMMUNICATION TOWERS IN KASEMPA DISTRICT

 

92. Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe) asked the Minister of Technology and Science:

 

1. when the construction of communication towers in the following areas in Kasempa District will be completed:

 

1. Kabila;
2. Maako-Nyoka;
3. Kamatete;
4. Lubofu;
5. Kalombe;
6. Katete;
7. Mufwashi-Nyoka; and
8. Jifumpa;

 

   b. what has caused the delay in completing the works; and

 

  c.  when the towers will become operational.

 

The Minister of Technology and Science (Mr Mutati): Madam Speaker, I inform this august House that the construction of communication towers in Kasempa District under Phase II of the Universal Access Towers Project has been completed and that the towers in Kabila, Kamatete, Lubofu and Maako-Nyoka have been made operational. The Government is currently undertaking surveys to ascertain the coverage requirements for the Kalombe, Katete, Mufwashi-Nyoka and Jifumpa sites. These sites will be included in the next phase of projects to be implemented.

 

Madam Speaker, the delay in completing the construction works was due to a lack of funds. However, the project for the construction of towers in Kasempa District, overall, is on schedule and currently stands at 90 per cent.

 

Madam Speaker, the communication towers in the planned sites of Kabila, Kamatete, Lubofu and Maako-Nyoka are operational. The exceptions are those at Kalombe, Katete, Mufwashi-Nyoka and Jifumpa.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kamondo: Madam Speaker, there are areas that were not been catered for, as the hon. Minister has mentioned. Is he assuring the people of Kasempa that this time around, it will not be business as usual, as it used to be? I say this, through you –

 

Mr Lusambo: When?

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members on the left, please, the rules are very clear. I invite all of you to go through Standing Order No. 204(1), 2(a) to (y) and (3), which are on parliamentary decorum and etiquette. If you go through those Standing Orders, you will clearly see that what you are doing while you are seated is not allowed. Debating or heckling another hon. Member who is debating or asking a question is not allowed. So, let us refrain from that conduct. Even answering or talking –

 

Mr Chisopa interjected.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chilubi, do you want to say something?

 

Mr Fube displayed surprise.

 

Madam Speaker: Sorry. Hon. Member for Mkushi South, did you want to say something?

 

Mr Chisopa rose and then resumed his seat.

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: Proceed, hon. Member for Mufumbwe.

 

Mr Kamondo: Madam Speaker, it is on record that one of the assurances that were made to the people of Kasempa is that all the communication towers were going to be completed. That is the truth of the matter. The people of Kasempa are now asking whether it is going to be in the New Dawn Government as it was before. Can the hon. Minister assure the people of Kasempa that this time around, they will be considered so that they stop climbing trees, mountains and anthills in order to communicate with their loved ones?

 

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, I can confidently say that the people of Kasempa should not worry, provided we approve the 2022 Budget.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, I am grateful to the hon. Minister of Science and Technology for bringing information that is very relevant to this question on areas that have benefitted, which he referred to in his response.

 

Madam Speaker, given the fact that this is an ongoing project, one that will continue next year, does the Government intend to continue implementing the programme in areas that were identified as needing effective communication? My understanding is that Mufumbwe is part of the bigger project that the Government started. I seek a response from the hon. Minister.

 

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, what we are undertaking currently, through the Zambia Information and Communications Technology Authority (ZICTA) and the telecommunication companies, is a nationwide survey to establish areas where there are network challenges for the purpose of making a plan on how we are going to cover those areas. In short, we are going to carry on until we get to 100 per cent coverage.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that in Phase I, the previous Government constructed the towers in Kasempa in the North-Western Province, and I know may other towns in which the towers were erected. I also know that the funding was through a credit facility from the Export-Import Bank (Exim) Bank of China. Having seen how the hon. Member of Parliament for Mufumbwe is pointing an accusing finger at us, innocent people here who have never held positions in the Executive before, is the hon. Minister also considering borrowing or looking for resources so that our relatives in not only Kasempa, but also in Chama and many other underserved constituencies get communication towers as soon as possible?

 

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member who has asked the question will note that it is outside the scope of the principal question that is being discussed on the Floor, which relates to Mufumbwe and the many areas that have been mentioned there. So, if the hon. Member wants the hon. Minister to address that new issue, he is free to put in a new question.

 

Mr Lubozha: Madam Speaker, I have been to some of the areas that have been highlighted by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mufumbwe, such as Kalombe and Kamatete.

 

Madam Speaker, ever since the cellular phone hit the soil of Zambia, people in places like Kamatete have never known what communication is. So, those people should be considered, like the hon. Member is requesting. So, as we approve the 2022 Budget, can the hon. Minister give us an assurance on the Floor of the House that the people in Kalombe, Kamatete and Nyoka in Kasempa District will benefit so that they can also know what it feels like to answer a call on a cellular phone?

 

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, we have said that provided the 2022 Budget is approved, we are going to prioritise connecting the areas that have been mentioned by the hon. Member of Parliament.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, now that the hon. Minister has confirmed that 50 per cent of the towers were completed, and I am sure it was under the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, ...

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Question!

 

Mr Lusambo: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Fube: … I want to know the cost – Of course it was under the PF Government whether my colleague says “Question!” or not.

 

Madam Speaker, I want to know the cost involved in the construction of the towers. Further, for those that are at 90 per cent, is there a variation in the cost, taking into consideration the fact that prices have been increasing?

 

Madam Speaker: There was no aspect relating to the cost in the principal question. So, I do not know if the hon. Minister is ready to answer this question.

 

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, I do not have the figures relating to the cost, but if the hon. Member so desires, let him put in a question and we shall provide the answer.

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, what happened to the project left behind by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government? Towards the dissolution of this House, the PF was busy distributing towers in rural areas. Was Mufumbwe Constituency not on that list?

 

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, the fact that the hon. Member of Parliament for Mufumbwe has asked this question means that there is a problem, and that problem is what we are going to address.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kolala: Madam Speaker, the towers in Mufumbwe are similar to those that were allocated to other districts. Has the ministry been checking whether a proper job is being done; whether the towers are meeting the standard required?

 

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, earlier, I indicated that ZICTA and the telecommunication companies are carrying out an assessment countrywide. Among the things that they are going to determine is whether there are defects in any of the towers.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Madam Speaker, I heard that four towers are complete and that what is remaining is to have them activated so that they can be used by the community, while the other are yet to be allocated after a look at the communication distances. When does the hon. Minister think the four completed towers in Mufumbwe will start operating? Further, when does he think the other ones can be completed?

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member of Parliament for Mkushi South, that question was tackled under part (b). I do not know whether you did not get the answer and want the hon. Minister to repeat it

 

Mr Chisopa indicated assent.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mkushi South was busy and did not understand the answer you gave. So, he is asking you to repeat.

 

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, the good hon. Member of Parliament for Mkushi South is referred to the response to the effect that the delay in completing the construction works was due to a lack of funds. The project of constructing towers in Kasempa District, overall, is on schedule and currently stands at 90 per cent.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

LACK OF PRIMARY SCHOOLS IN CHIENGE

     

93. Rev. Katuta asked the Minister of Education:

 

1. why the Government does not cater for primary school pupils whose schools are upgraded to secondary schools in Chienge District; and
2. what measures are being taken to address the problem.

 

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima): Madam Speaker, I inform the House that the Government has not failed to cater for primary school pupils in Chienge. You may wish to note that when a primary school is fully upgraded to a secondary school; to run from Grades 8 to 12, a phased implementation approach is used. The method rolls out new grades at the secondary level by replacing the primary grades being phased out year by year and grade by grade.

 

Madam Speaker, in light of the response to part (a) of the question, part (b) falls off.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister said that primary school pupils in Chienge have been catered for. However, many primary schools were upgraded to secondary schools and most primary school pupils who were in those schools are at home because there are no primary schools for them to go to. What is the Government doing about that? There are no primary schools, and that is the reason I asked the question.

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I am not quite sure whether I got the hon. Member right. Did she say there are no primary schools?

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chienge, can you repeat the question.

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, most primary schools were upgraded to secondary schools and no new primary schools have been constructed. As a result, most children do not go to school because the number of primary schools has reduced. So, most children are at home. For example, Museka Secondary School, which was a primary school, was upgraded, and there is no primary school in that area to which pupils can go to. So, the question is: What measures will the Government put in place, considering that primary schools seem to be phasing out?

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, if that is the case, then, there will be a need to relook at it. Otherwise, which pupils will go to the secondary schools if there are no primary schools? In the North-Western Province, building secondary schools are being built and the primary schools have been maintained. So, if the primary schools are being squeezed out of space in Chienge, there will be a need to do something about that. Probably, we need to construct 1 x 3 classroom blocks using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), as there is about enough money for that. As the headquarters, we will look into that, and we hope the schools are not too far away from one another. If primary schools are far away from the secondary schools, I think there is a need to do something about that.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

________

 

MOTION

 

BUDGET 2022

 

(Debate resumed)

 

Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe): Madam Speaker, the people of Mufumbwe appreciate this Budget and support it in its totality.

 

Madam Speaker, our people are very happy about the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). As you may have heard from the report of the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, in the last ten years, not even one feeder road in Mufumbwe has been worked on, and most of the works that were not done will be done using the CDF, which is at K25.7 million. So, the people of Mufumbwe are telling the hon. Minister that he has done well to take development closer to the people, and this is what we, the New Dawn Government, wanted. Kenya borrowed the CDF concept from Zambia, but has developed it further. However, in the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, the CDF remained at K1.6 million.

 

Madam Speaker, with the coming in of the New Dawn Government, we have been given more money, and some people are saying that it is too much. What type of people are we? What are we looking for? Where credit is due, we are supposed to give it, and I am appreciating on behalf of the people of Mufumbwe.

 

Madam speaker, the people of Mufumbwe are saying the CDF should be given, but they have only a small problem with the ‘how’ part because the rural areas are the most underdeveloped and have lagged farthest behind. So, my people have proposed that, going forward, only 75 per cent of the CDF should be shared among all the constituencies while 25 per cent of it should be retained and the poorest areas. They are also saying that the people who are saying they cannot manage this money, just like I said yesterday, are saturated with development, and that is why they do not need the money. So, the money should be taken to where it is needed. In Kenya, when a Member of Parliament fails to use up all the CDF, the following year, he or she is only given the amount he or she managed to use the previous year. As for the people of Mufumbwe, including the youths, they are very excited because they will get employed. 

 

Madam Speaker, coming to the issue –

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

The Minister for Western Province (Mr Mbangweta): Madam Speaker, allow me to give a few reflections on the Budget that was presented by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

 

Madam Speaker, first of all, the reason we do not develop in Zambia is that we seem to put emphasis on things that do not add value. A Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D.) holder prepared this Budget, but an equivalent of a Grade 7, who is not qualified to be a student of the one who prepared the Budget because the one who prepared the Budget used to teach undergraduate students, says that the figures in the Budget do not add up. That is unfortunate. Further, one hon. Member claimed that the hon. Minister is a nominated Member. Why should we be subjected to that sort of thing? What the hon. Minister presented and what we are discussing are the intentions. Therefore, if I were to sum up what I think in two words, I would say that what that hon. Member said in relation to the Budget is the difference between ‘chicanery’ and ‘capacity’.

 

Mr Fube: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mbangweta: I say so because in the previous order, there were individuals who thought they were the landed gentry and that the rest of the population were peasants. They forgot that this country belonged to all of us because everybody pays taxes and those taxes bring about development.

 

Madam Speaker, there is something we saw, which this Government is trying to redress, and it is important that I stress this point because I have seen that some people are trying to mislead the nation, and themselves in the process. When, for example, National Registration Cards (NRCs) were being issued, an exercise that is funded by all of us, the Western Province scored less than 50 per cent of the targeted 100,000 while other areas went to up 192,000, and our colleagues were happy and used to refer to us as members of a minority party. I used to tell them that when I was in the university, the Minister of Home Affairs was Aaron Milner, who was very tough, but he also had empathy. So, when people in one area were deliberately given more registration cards and the people responsible for that were paid, what were the other people to do? Further, when we want to redress that, why should some people complain? What sort of attitude is that?

 

Madam Speaker, coming to the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), for so many years, the Western Province had only 27,000 beneficiaries of this programme out of 1 million beneficiaries countrywide while some provinces had in excess of 200,000 beneficiaries. Does that make sense? When we want to redress that and talk about equity, should some people say there is something wrong with that? How does that work?

 

Madam Speaker, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government used to say that if HH (Mr Hakainde Hichilema) and the United Party for National development (UPND) were voted into Government, they would do away with the Social Cash Transfer (SCT) programme. That is the chicanery I am referring to. Have we not increased the SCT amount? Further, does that not indicate that what our colleagues were saying had no basis? We used to tell them that the money came from the donors and the taxes we all pay. In fact, we have increased the number of beneficiaries of the SCT programme from 880,000 to more than 1 million, which is good, although the amount of money given is little. Why should one say this Government is doing the wrong thing?

 

Madam Speaker, the point is our colleagues have shown their incompetence. They had a lot of money, but they were sleeping on it. We have not slept on the money. Within two months of being appointed, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning gave us the 2021 Constituency Development Fund (CDF), yet our colleagues used to say there was no money and we had literally written it off. Where did the current hon. Minister find the money? Was it not through prioritisation? That is what we mean by capacity.

 

Madam Speaker, did anyone from industry say that there was something wrong with the figures in the Budget? Even for those who have been to school, one and one do not equal two in certain cases. So, one cannot come here and start sharing ideas that people who have been to school do not share. What one should do is to ask how the hon. Minister arrived at these figures.

 

Madam Speaker, some people were asking where we will find the money to support education. However, for two weeks, we were subjected to submissions. Why should one now ask where the hon. Minister will get the money from? That is the capacity we are talking about, unlike obtained in the past.

 

Madam Speaker, we support the Budget. In the new order, if we will all be peasants, so shall it be because we all pay taxes and nobody can claim to be more important than the other. When we pay taxes, no one says, ‘Those taxes from for Kaoma or Nkeyema should not be added to the national coffers’. It does not work that way. The taxes are for all of us, and we expect those who benefited in the past to understand that tax revenue from other regions worked for them and that they should let the other regions catch up. The programme of restocking cattle should have benefited the Western Province because we have a competitive advantage in that area. However, our colleagues took everything elsewhere. Similarly, the projects in the fisheries sector should have been taken to the Western Province, but they were taken somewhere else, and when we want to take those programmes there now, our colleagues say there is something wrong. The truth is that there must be something wrong with us if we do not take those projects there, because this is the equity we are talking about.

 

Madam Speaker, somebody gives you money – you heard about the roads, and anybody who is reasonable should be ashamed of that. Surely, what sort of Cabinet can decide to give the other people zero kilometres? Some people even want to win political mileage out of things they did not do. The Mongu-Kalabo Road was not the brain child of the PF; it was the brain child of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD).

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order under Standing Order No. 65, which is on content of speech.

 

Madam Speaker, I was hoping to hear the hon. Minister for Western Province speak to the Budgetary provisions for the Western Province. I do not know whether he has not realised that he is part of the Government, because his debate was below what is expected. I want hon. Ministers who are yet to debate to understand their roles; they are not supposed to debate like ordinary hon. Members or we, the Backbenchers. The hon. Minister should have debated the provisions for his province. We know that there will be time for policy statements, but hon. Ministers are encouraged to read from prepared scripts when debating. So, the hon. Minister should not have come here to do a cross-country debate or what we call cilingalinga; a speech with no defined head and tail.

 

Madam Speaker, was the hon. Minister for Western Province in order to debate like an hon. Member of the Backbench in this august House?

 

 I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

 

UPND hon. Members: Question!

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

In accordance with the Standing Orders, when hon. Ministers are debating, they should read written speeches, and I encourage hon. Ministers to have written scripts as they debate. So, the hon. Minister was not in order to not read from a written speech.

 

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on our maiden National Budget, developed by the New Dawn Administration and adequately delivered by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

 

Madam Speaker, from the outset, let me say that I was very satisfied that the hon. Minister and his team rose to the occasion and fulfilled the expectations of the people of Zambia. I was further satisfied when I listened to the debate of the hon. Leader of the Opposition. When the Government delivers a Budget and the hon. Leader of the Opposition raises two wishy-washy issues, as happened over this Budget, then, the Government has done a good job.

 

Madam Speaker, the 2022 Budget is firmly anchored on the Government’s vision to rebuild the economy, deliver jobs and better the livelihoods of our people across the ten provinces of this country, as elaborated by His Excellency Mr Hakainde Hichilema, President of the Republic of Zambia.

 

Madam Speaker, listening to the voices of our people as they react to this Budget, I note that the Budget has raised the bar and set a new standard for effective public spending. The New Dawn Government has demonstrated, through this Budget, that it is serious about the taking of resources to the people.

 

This Budget, Madam Speaker, will begin the task of reviving our economy, which has contracted in the past years, and has already raised investor confidence, which is critical to the growth of our economy through increased investment, job creation and tax revenue. Investor confidence, in my view, is what is required to grow this country.

 

Madam Speaker, the 2022 Budget is bigger than any National Budget we have seen before, and it is focused on making life better for all the people of this great nation. It is, indeed, a change Budget.

 

Madam Speaker, let me speak to specific issues. With respect to the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) amount, I fail to understand the rationale of those on your left who are raising questions against increasing it from K1.6 million to K25.7 million. This money will be spent in constituencies where the local communities live. When implemented for the entire life of this Parliament, the new CDF will translate into K128.5 million spent in each constituency. However, remember that the K25.7 million is just an initial or a start. If all of us in this House and elsewhere can exhibit prudence in our utilisation of these resources and the economy grows as expected, the amount is likely to be increased in years to come.

 

Madam Speaker, as the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, I look forward to the effective utilisation of the CDF and believe the increased allocation will help in the completion of some infrastructure projects that have stalled for many years despite requiring only minimal resources to be completed. As a ministry and the New Dawn Government, we will actively pursue an integrated approach to infrastructure development.

 

Madam Speaker, I wish also to touch a bit on mining, an area of great importance to our economy, and one on which the hon. Minister for Mines and Minerals Development will further elaborate.

 

Madam Speaker, mining is, by its very nature, a long-term undertaking that requires intensive capital investment. The mining sector, therefore, requires a competitive and stable tax regime, and the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, through the Budget, has started on a good note. This remains a high-tax country, but the measures in this Budget begin to resolve that issue.

 

Madam Speaker, with respect to debt, yes, there is a significant component of it in this Budget, but that is debt that will be sourced from multilateral and bilateral lenders which, by its nature, is concessionary. Further, the money will be spent on areas that will grow the economy and provide demonstrable returns on investment. Our colleagues on your left contracted commercial debt at high interest rates and recklessly spent the money on excessively-priced infrastructure projects with no demonstrable rates of return on investment. That is the debt that is now chocking us.

 

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I wish to state that the 2022 Budget is inspirational, as it will put more children in school and food on the tables of many Zambians, and provide for the employment of more teachers and health personnel. It will further improve the infrastructure base as well as increase the life span of infrastructure through increased maintenance. Indeed, this Budget will transform our economy and change the lives of the people for the better. I, therefore, urge my fellow hon. Members on both sides of this august House to endorse and support this progressive Budget.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

 Government hon. Members: Hear, hear!   

 

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima): Madam Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the 2022 Budget Address by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

 

Madam Speaker, I request the House to join me in commending the hon. Minister for having delivered not only an inspiring speech, but also one that aims at stimulating economic recovery through the rebuilding of the economy, delivering jobs and bettering the lives of many of our people. The Budget also provides us with a platform for creating an environment in which we can reinvigorate economic activity in which every citizen will have the opportunity to participate and benefit. It also aims at enhancing social protection programmes.

 

Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Administration believes that education is the greatest equaliser for all the citizens of Zambia. Unfortunately, most of our educational facilities lack infrastructure, teaching and learning materials, and teaching staff, especially in rural and peri-urban areas. My ministry is elated with the proposals in the Budget Speech because they will address a number of these challenges.

 

Madam Speaker, the Budget resonates well with the New Dawn Administration’s manifesto and the pronouncements of His Excellency the President during his Inaugural Speech. The United Party for National Development Manifesto and the President’s Inaugural Address centred on the four major pillars of education, namely access, efficiency, equity and quality.

 

Madam Speaker, in a bid to improve quality in education, the proposed recruitment of 30,000 teachers will result in a reduced teacher-pupil ratio, thereby increasing teacher/pupil contact. Consequently, the teaching load for teachers will be minimal, leading to less stress. Our teachers will teach well and quality will be registered. That is the beauty of changing a well-spread teaching staff. The quality of education will also improve considering the significant increase in grants to schools, which will result in the availability of the required teaching and learning materials.

 

Madam Speaker, to increase access, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning has increased grants to schools and made a significant allocation to infrastructure development in addition to the construction of 120 secondary schools financed by the World Bank. This will significantly increase access to secondary school education, especially in rural areas. In addition to removing barriers in accessing education and learning, especially for learners from vulnerable households, the hon. Minister highlighted how the New Dawn Administration will implement an education-for-all policy. The policy will ensure that all learners in secondary schools stop paying tuition, Parent-Teachers Association (PTA) and Examination fees. Further, despite removing tuition fees, the Government has also increased the Orphans and Vulnerable Children Grant. The grant will now be channelled towards the provision of learning materials for learners from vulnerable households.

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

 

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, to ensure equity, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has provided for a boarding school bursary scheme for vulnerable learners under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). The facility ensure that vulnerable learners are not to left behind in accessing quality education. Further, to improve efficiency in the system, the ministry will put in place effective monitoring and evaluation mechanisms at all levels.

 

Madam Speaker, the removal of user or school fees under the Education for All Policy will address a critical barrier to education most learners from vulnerable households face. To ensure that schools do not lose revenue due to the abolition of the fees they traditionally collected, we shall give all secondary schools a compensatory grant equal to the money they used to collect as user fees. The grant will be additional to the traditional grants that schools receive, which have also been increased twofold.

 

Madam Speaker, learners in boarding schools will continue to pay termly boarding fees. However, vulnerable learners under this category will be eligible to apply for a bursary under the CDF based on a vulnerability selection criterion.

 

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, allow me to request the hon. Members of this august House to join me in supporting this Budget, as it will fulfil most of the campaign promises made by the New Dawn administration, in general, and address most of the challenges faced by the education, sector in particular.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

UPND hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate on the Motion on the Budget.

 

 

First of all, Madam Speaker, I thought the Opposition was supposed to be here, but it is like there is no one in the House. I do not know whether they have decided to resign because they are of no relevance as at now.

 

Madam Speaker: We have a quorum, hon. Member. So, proceed with your debate.

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Speaker, I will be a man of very few words. Actually, I am the bearer of a very good message from the people of Dundumwezi to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. The message is that my people are very grateful for this Budget.

 

Madam speaker, under the previous regime, in 2011, the late President, Mr Michael Sata, and his Government had indicated that they were going to give us four health centres in Dundumwezi. As I stand here, however, not a single health centre has constructed been.

 

UPND hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Sing’ombe: The people of Dundumwezi are saying that they are very grateful because those health posts will be constructed, come 2022.

 

UPND hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Speaker, the former hon. Minister of Home Affairs came to Kalomo and promised that a police post was going to be opened in Dundumwezi. As I stand here, I say to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning that that police post did not materialise. It was only two days ago, under the New Dawn Government, that a team led by the Deputy Commissioner of Police for the Southern Province visited Dundumwezi to survey the area where the police post will be constructed, and I am sure the police post is coming under this New Dawn Government.

 

Madam Speaker, as I have indicated, the people of Dundumwezi have said that they wish the New Dawn Government God’s blessings just for this Budget. They know that this Budget will not address all their challenges because developing a constituency or a nation is a process, not an event. At least, however, we are starting from somewhere. Had the Patriotic Front (PF) been releasing all the monies allocated to the constituencies, and using the previous amount, which was K1.6 million, we would have been given K16 million in ten years. However, here is a man with his brand new Cabinet who have come with a bang and given us K25.7 million. Surely, citatoli mwana amulozi. We should be able to say, ‘Thank you’.

 

Madam Speaker, I am just bringing blessings to the hon. Minister and his hon. Colleagues for giving us K25.7 million.

 

Madam Speaker, with those very words, I thank you.

 

UPND hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

______

 

MOTION

 

ADJOURNMENT

 

The Chief Whip and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mulusa): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

 

Question put and agreed to.

 

______

 

The House adjourned at 1707 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 19^th November, 2021.

 

____________