Tuesday, 15th March, 2022

Tuesday, 15^th March, 2022

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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RULING BY MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER

ON THE POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY HON. G. G. NKOMBO, MP, MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT AGAINST PATRIOTIC FRONT PARTY HON. MEMBERS AND INDEPENDENT HON. MEMBERS ON WHETHER THEY WERE IN ORDER TO MISCONDUCT THEMSELVES IN THE HOUSE, AND ON THE POINT OF ORDER BY HON. M. HAIMBE, MP, MINISTER OF JUSTICE ON WHETHER THE PATRIOTIC FRONT PARTY HON. MEMBERS AND INDEPENDENT HON. MEMBERS WERE IN ORDER TO REMAIN IN THE HOUSE AFTER INTENTIONALLY DISRESPECTING IT

Madam First Deputy Speaker: At this moment, I order Hon. B. M. Mundubile, Leader of the Opposition and Member of Parliament for Mporokoso Parliamentary Constituency, to go and stand behind the Bar of the House.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I also instruct the Sergeant-at-Arms to take the Speaker’s Mace and go and stand behind the hon. Member.

Mr B. M. Mundubile was escorted to the Bar by the Sergeant-at-Arms.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I also order the following twenty-nine Patriotic Front (PF) hon. Members of Parliament to stand in their place wherever they are:

Mr S. Kampyongo, MP;

Mr R. K. Chitotela, MP;

Mr R. Mutale, MP;

Mr M. F. Fube, MP;

Mr E. Daka, MP;

Mr N. Chilangwa, MP;

Mr K. Kabaso, MP;

Mr A. Z. Lubusha, MP;

Mr S. C. Chanda, MP;

Mr G. Mwila, MP;

Mr C. Shakafuswa, MP;

Mr P. Twasa, MP;

Mr E. Tembo, MP;

Mr Elias M. Musonda, MP;

Mr Emmanuel M. Musonda, MP;

Mr L. Chibombwe, MP;

Ms M. Nakaponda, MP;

Mr C. A. B. Katotobwe, MP;

Ms K. S. Mulenga, MP;

Mr F. R. Kapyanga, MP;

Mr C. C. Kang’ombe, MP;

Dr A. D. Mwanza, MP;

Mr A. Kasandwe, MP;

Ms M. Mabonga, MP;

Mr G. K. Chisanga, MP;

Mr S. Mushanga, MP;

Ms M. Phiri, MP;

Mr C. Chibuye, MP; and

Ms T. E. Lungu, MP.

Hon. Members, the House will recall that on Tuesday, 30^th November, 2021, when the Committee of Supply was considering Vote 01 – State House, and Mr M. Kafwaya, hon. Member of Parliament for Lunte Parliamentary Constituency was on the Floor, Hon. G. G. Nkombo, Minister of Local Government and Rural Development raised a point of order. In his point of order, he inquired whether hon. Members from the Patriotic Front (PF) and some independent hon. Members of Parliament were in order to misconduct themselves by converging in front of the Speaker’s Mace to express their displeasure about an issue. He further explained that the only permissible means for hon. Members to express displeasure was by walking out of the House.

On the same day, when the Committee of Supply was considering Vote 02 – Office of the Vice-President, Hon. M. Haimbe, Minister of Justice, also raised a point of order on whether the PF party hon. Members and some independent hon. Members were in order to remain in the House after intentionally disrespecting it.

Hon. Members, the Deputy Chairperson of the Committees of the Whole House, Hon. M. Moyo, MP, reserved his ruling on both points of order to enable him study the matter. I have since studied the matter and wish to render a consolidated ruling because the points of order arise from the same incident.

Hon. Members, the background to this matter is that on Tuesday, 30^th November, 2021, Her Honour the Vice-President and Leader of Government Business in the House presented the policy statement for Head 01 – State House. Thereafter, Hon. B. M. Mundubile, MP, informed the House that the Yellow Book was showing that the mandate of the Republican President to discharge his constitutional function was derived from Articles 33 and 34 of the Constitution of Zambia Act No. 18 of 1996 of the Laws of Zambia. He explained that the said provisions were repealed and replaced by the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016.

He, thus, submitted that the estimates of expenditure for State House were drawing their mandate from a non-existent constitutional provision. In that regard, he informed the House that there was a need for the Yellow Book to be amended before hon. Members could debate the Vote. He added that failure to do so would be a violation of the Constitution which hon. Members had sworn to protect, and would result in hon. Members’ protest. He concluded by seeking guidance from the Deputy Chairperson on the matter.

In response, the Deputy Chairperson stated that since Hon. B. M. Mundubile, MP, had not risen on a point of order, he was actually debating the State House Vote. He then called upon the next hon. Member to debate the Vote. Hon. B. M. Mundubile, MP, then rose and informed the House that he and other hon. Members of the PF party and the independent hon. Members of Parliament would proceed to protest to ensure that they were not party to the illegality. The hon. Members then protested by converging in front of the Speaker’s Mace. This resulted in the Deputy Chairperson adjourning business for twenty minutes.

Hon. Members, the points of order raise the following issues:

an hon. Member causing an obstruction or disturbance within the precincts of the Assembly Chamber during the sitting of the Assembly or its Committee; and
an hon. Member creating or joining in any disturbance which interrupts or is likely to interrupt the proceedings of the Assembly or its Committee.

The National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, Cap. 12 of the Laws of Zambia, provides guidance on both these issues. In that regard, Section 19 (c) provides as follows:

“19. Contempts

Any person shall be guilty of an offence who –

causes an obstruction or disturbance within the precincts of the Assembly Chamber during a sitting of the Assembly or of a committee thereof.”

Further, Section 25 (f) of the Act provides as follows:

“25. Any person who –

creates or joins in any disturbance which interrupts or is likely to interrupt the proceedings of the Assembly while it is sitting shall be guilty of an offence.”

From the foregoing authorities, it is evident that an hon. Member who causes or participates in a disturbance in the House commits an offence or a contempt of the House.

Hon. Members, to ascertain which hon. Members participated in the protest, I had recourse to a list compiled by the Office of the Clerk. A scrutiny of the list revealed that contrary to the allegation that some independent hon. Members of Parliament had participated in the protest, only PF hon. Members participated. The PF hon. Members identified as having participated in the protest were thirty-seven.

In line with parliamentary practice and procedures and the rules of natural justice, the Office of the Clerk wrote to all the identified hon. Members requesting them to explain why they should not be found in breach of parliamentary privilege and contempt of the House for participating in the protest.

From the outset, I wish to state that five of the hon. Members who took part in the protest have since been barred from participating in parliamentary business following a ruling rendered by the Rt. Hon. Madam Speaker on 7^th December, 2021. These are Mr B. C. Lusambo, MP, Mr L. Simumba, MP, Mr M. Kafwaya, MP, Mr T. Chewe, MP, and Mr J. Malanji, MP. They are, therefore, excluded from this ruling.

Of the remaining thirty-two hon. Members, thirty responded through a single letter from the Office of the Leader of the Opposition signed by all of them. Two hon. Members, Ms J. Nyemba, hon. Member of Parliament for Chifunabuli Parliamentary Constituency, and Dr C. Chilufya, hon. Member of Parliament for Mansa Central Parliamentary Constituency responded individually.

Response by Thirty PF Hon. Members of Parliament through a Single Letter from the Office of the Leader of the Opposition

The hon. Members submitted that the points of order were centred on the enjoyment of their fundamental rights and freedoms as enshrined in Part III of the Constitution of Zambia vis-à-vis the privileges of hon. Members of the House. They explained that their protest was caused by an attempt by the Executive to bring for consideration a Head of Expenditure which was based on a non-existent constitutional provision.

They added that the situation was worsened by the presiding officer’s decision to ignore this important constitutional issue once it was raised by the Leader of the Opposition. They emphasised that the protest happened within the Chamber and was intended to ensure that the House debated Vote 01 – State House without abrogating the Constitution. They, further, submitted that debate on the Vote proceeded after the correction sought had been effected. This, they said, negated the need for any sanctions to be meted out to them for upholding the Constitution.

Additionally, the hon. Members submitted that hon. Members of Parliament reserved the right to protest when displeased with the manner in which the business of the House was being conducted. The hon. Members requested for judicial notice to be taken that the right to protest and subsequently walk out was effectively exercised by the United Party for National Development (UPND) when it was in the Opposition. They added that no disruption was caused although the Deputy Chairperson, in his wisdom, decided to suspend business for a few minutes. They concluded that the alleged conduct did not, in any, way contravene Section 19 (c) and Section 25 (f) of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act.

Response by Ms J. Nyemba, MP

Ms J. Nyemba, MP, denied participating in the protest. She explained that, during the protest, she was in her designated Committee room, Wesley Nyirenda, with Mr L. J. Simbao, hon. Member of Parliament for Luanshya Parliamentary Constituency, and Mr M. Chinkuli, hon. Member of Parliament for Kanyama Parliamentary Constituency.

Response from Dr C.Chilufya, MP

Dr C. Chilufya, MP, denied participating in the protest. He confirmed that, on the material day, he had logged into the system from the Chamber, but left before the protest began.

Hon. Members, while the list compiled by the Office of the Clerk included Ms J. Nyemba, MP, and Dr C. Chilufya, MP, a review of the video footage revealed that, indeed, they did not participate in the disruption of the proceedings of the House. In that regard, I am satisfied that Ms J. Nyemba, MP, and Dr C. Chilufya, MP, did not participate in the protest and, consequently, disjoin them from this matter.

I now wish to address the House on the alleged misconduct.

Hon. Members, while parliamentary practice and procedure permits hon. Members to protest, the acceptable way of doing this is through walkouts. A walk out is where hon. Members leave the Chamber or a Committee in protest without disrupting the business of the House.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The former Speaker, Rt. Hon. Justice Patrick Matibini, SC, addressed the issue of walk-outs on several occasions. In his ruling on a point of order raised by then hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs, Hon. H. Kalaba, MP, against hon. Members of the UPND who walked out of the House on Friday, 27^th November, 2015 (National Assembly Parliamentary Debates of 18^th September – 10^th December, 2015, pages 3282 – 3284) he stated, inter-alia, as follows:

“Walk-outs, per se, do not amount to a breach of the rules of the House or, indeed, parliamentary practice and procedure. In view of this, the hon. Members of the UPND were not out of order to have walked out of the House.”

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, in the matter under consideration the hon. Members did not walk out of the Chamber, but, instead, converged in front of the Speaker’s Mace. This conduct, ultimately, resulted in a disturbance and the disruption of the business of the House, forcing the Deputy Chairperson to suspend business. I, therefore, find the thirty PF hon. Members of Parliament who participated in the protest in the Chamber in breach of parliamentary privileges and in contempt of the House.

Hon. Members, I now wish to consider the sanction to mete out to the thirty erring PF hon. Members. I note that all of them are first offenders. However, I also note the gravity of the offence committed, which caused a disruption of the proceedings of the House. Additionally, the hon. Members, in their response, were neither apologetic nor remorseful for their conduct. In view of this, I wish to invoke the provisions of Section 28 (2) of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, which provides as follows:

“28.(2) Where a Member is found to have committed contempt of the Assembly of a serious nature, and none of the other penalties are sufficient for the contempt committed by the member, the Speaker shall, on the resolution of the Assembly, suspend the member from the Assembly for a period not exceeding thirty days”.

I now turn to address the thirty PF Members.

The House is extremely displeased with your gross misconduct …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: … of carrying out a protest in the Chamber and, thereby, disrupting the proceedings of the House. The dishonorable conduct diminishes the respect due to you as members of this august House. This is a House of honour, decorum and dignity, and as such, your conduct ought to be exemplary and above reproach.

I wish to make it clear that I will not tolerate gross indiscipline and misconduct from you or any Member of this House. The honour, decorum, integrity and dignity of the House must be protected and preserved at all times. I do trust that you will reflect seriously on your conduct and, in future, refrain from conduct unbefitting of an hon. Member of Parliament.

Hon. Members, it is not worthy that the Committee responsible for assisting me in maintaining discipline in the House is the Committee on Privileges and Absences. In this vein, any member of the Committee that is found of misconduct loses his or her seat on the Committee. To this end, Standing Order 190(6) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021, states as follows:

“190. (6) Any member of the committee who is found guilty of misconduct shall lose his or her membership to the committee.”

Hon. Members, regrettably, among the protesters were Hon. B. M. Mundubile, MP, and Mr C. C. Kang’ombe, MP, who are members of the Committee on Privileges and Absences. Therefore, in accordance with Standing Order 190(6), Hon. B. M. Mundubile, MP, and Mr C. C. Kang’ombe, MP, cease to be members of the Committee with immediate effect. The members to replace them on the Committee will be announced in due course.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, in accordance with Section 28 (2) of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, which requires a resolution of the House to suspend a Member from the House, I now put the Question.

Question that the House suspends the thirty Patriotic Front Members of Parliament that participated in the protest in the Chamber for a period of thirty days put and agreed to.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, the suspension is with effect from today, Tuesday, 15^th March to Wednesday, 13^th April, 2022. However, with regard to Ms T. E. Lungu, MP, who is currently in the United Kingdom attending a Commonwealth Parliamentary Association (CPA) meeting, her suspension is with effect from Monday, 21^st March to Tuesday, 19^th April, 2022.

Hon. Members, before you take the walk of shame, I wish to inform you that in accordance with section 28(3) of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, during the period of your suspension, you shall not:

enter the precincts of the Assembly, and this extends to the National Assembly Motel;

participate in an activity of the Assembly or any committee that you are assigned in, in your capacity as Member of Parliament; and

be paid the salary or allowance that you are entitled to as a member.

I now order you, suspended PF hon. Members of Parliament, to immediately leave the proceedings of the House on thirty days’ suspension. Those in the Chamber should leave through the main entrance of the Chamber. Those attending from Committee rooms should immediately leave the Committee rooms. Those logged into the proceedings via Zoom should immediately log out.

I further instruct the ICT officers to ensure that all suspended Members are logged out of the system.

I thank you.

Hon. PF Members left the Assembly Chamber.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

ROADMAP FOR THE RECRUITMENT OF 11,200 HEALTH WORKERS UNDER THE MINISTRY OF HEALTH

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to present a ministerial statement following your directive that it be made this coming Friday so that the people of Zambia are informed, and there is clarity on the intended employment of 11,200 medical personnel.

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, from the outset, let me state that this ministerial statement will also be intended to not only to inform the people of Zambia through your august House, but also to get colleagues who are representing the people to have some input as we take this final position of the ministry to Cabinet, after which I will come back to the House.

Madam Speaker, the aspiration guiding this statement is to respond to the questions raised on this Floor regarding the recruitment of 11,200 health workers and to build consensus around the process.

Madam Speaker, I am delighted to inform the House and the people of Zambia that His Excellency, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, the President of the Republic of Zambia, promised that the New Dawn Government would this year provide for and support the recruitment of 11,200 health workers.

Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Administration has set the goal of achieving good health and well being for all Zambians in keeping with the universal health coverage agenda and in line with the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs). This unprecedented recruitment process will enhance health systems. As you are aware, human resource is at the pinnacle of effective health systems.

Madam Speaker, the New Dawn administration has set out an allocation amounting to K930,154,000 to equitably employ and deploy 11,200 health workers countrywide, in a bid to transform the health sector in real terms and achieve universal health coverage.

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that the current number of health workers in the health sector stands at 63,838 against the approved establishment of 139,590. This leaves a human resource gap of 75,752 which represents 56 per cent of the approved establishment. As can be noted, this dire situation has for a long time negatively affected the delivery of quality healthcare service to the people of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, with the recruitment of 11,200 health workers, it is estimated that the staffing levels of the Ministry of Health will increase from 63,838, which stands at 46 per cent, to 75,038, which will move to 54 per cent of the approved establishment.

Madam Speaker, I wish to emphasise that the recruitment of these health workers does not only refer to the doctors and nurses. Health workers include dental surgeons; midwives; clinical officers; laboratory personnel; pharmacists; physiotherapists; environmental health personnel; mortuary attendants; potters; drivers; cleaners; and security guards, to mention a few. All these workers are equally important in the delivery of quality health services in the country.

Madam Speaker, you may wish to note that the ministry will utilise this process to normalise, through promotions, some of the long standing challenges. For example, some eligible senior resident doctors that have been receiving salaries of junior resident doctors will have their plight resolved through this recruitment process. In addition, some of the registered midwives that have been receiving salaries of mere registered nurses will have their appropriate salaries also resolved.

Madam Speaker, I must hasten to mention that the specific numbers regarding each cadre per district shall be spelt out in the advertisement that shall run in this month of March.

Madam Speaker, the Government is very much alive to the challenge of health workers that have specialised in various disciplines, but are still occupying lower positions on the pay roll due to a lack of vacant and funded promotional positions. I am happy to inform the House and the nation at large that this problem will be addressed during the 2022-2024 Medium Term Expenditure Framework (MTEF).

Madam Speaker, now, allow me to outline the roadmap for the recruitment process:

Prioritisation of Health Workers to be Recruited

Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Health, through a consultative process with the Civil Service Commission, the Public Service Management Division (PSMD), Cabinet Office and the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, has finalised the prioritisation of the 11,200 health workers to be recruited in the year 2022.

Madam Speaker, I wish to report that priorities are based on the actual human resource needs that are affecting the sector. These include having, at least, one qualified health worker at a facility where there was none; increasing the number of health workers where they were inadequate; and having the right mix of health workers.

Madam Speaker, let me just repeat. This exercise will include having, at least, one qualified health worker at every facility where there was none; this means that even the new hospitals that are yet to be opened are being taken into account; increasing the number of health workers where they were inadequate; and having the right mix of health workers. This will entail, of course, the current old hospitals and health centres across the country.

Madam Speaker, the priorities have also taken into consideration equity in the distribution of the health workers identified to enable effective provision of health services as close to the family as possible.

Madam Speaker, this breakdown will be well appreciated when the advertisement referred to above is shared with the public.

Treasury Authority

Madam Speaker, the treasury authority for this recruitment process will be effective 1^st April, 2022. I further wish to report that the modalities of issuing the treasury authority have advanced and are expected to be concluded before the end of March 2022.

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Madam Speaker, as you are aware, the New Dawn Government has embarked on the decentralisation programme whose implementation, thus far, has seen reforms that have channeled resources to lower levels. These lower levels are the implementing agencies, hence the need for them to be empowered.

Madam Speaker, in the spirit of decentralisation, the Government, through the Civil Service Commission, will decentralise the recruitment of health workers. It is envisioned that the Civil Service Commission should advertise the recruitment of 11,200 health workers within the month of March 2022, taking into account that the effective date for treasury authority shall be 1^st April, 2022.

Madam Speaker, in line with the principles of decentralisation, I wish to report that all applications shall be made to respective district health offices.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, the details of the application modalities shall, too, be contained in the advertisement. Following the New Dawn Government’s aspiration in supporting family values, the decentralised recruitment process will help in curbing the separation of families as applicants will be encouraged to apply where their families are unlike when they use a centralised recruitment model.

Human Resources Committees

Madam Speaker, I am glad to report to this House, and the nation at large, that in order to enhance transparency and fairness in the recruitment process, the Government, through the Civil Service Commission, has established human resource committees at both district and provincial levels. These committees, with specific terms of reference, are multi-sectoral in nature and will spearhead this recruitment process.

Madam Speaker, in this regard, the district human resource committees, in collaboration with other Government entities, will create a database of all applicants; scrutinise the various applications received within their respective districts; shortlist; select; and recommend to the provincial human resource committees. The provincial human resource committees on the other hand will validate the work and, through the Ministry of Health, recommend to the Civil Service Commission.

Madam Speaker, in undertaking these processes, preference will be given to applicants that have done volunteer work at public health facilities. This, however, does not mean that applicants that have not had the opportunity to volunteer at any of the public health facilities will be precluded from the recruitment process.

Madam Speaker, let me just emphasise; the issue of giving preference to those who have been volunteers will not mean that only they will be considered. However, even those who never had an opportunity to volunteer will be considered because we understand that some may have wanted to, but the opportunity might not have been there. So, this means that even those who did not have that opportunity to volunteer fully have the right to participate and be considered.

Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Health Headquarters will work with the Public Service Management Division and regulatory bodies in ensuring that the recommendations received from the districts via the provincial human resource committees are in conformity with the required human resource best practices.

Madam Speaker, the Civil Service Commission will scrutinise all the recommendations made by the provincial human resource committees before appointing the successful candidates. The successful candidates will be expected to report for duty in April 2022.

Publication of Names

Madam Speaker, once the appointments are made by the Civil Service Commission – and by the way, these appointments are made in the name of the President – the names of all successful candidates will be published in the State print media; that is, also taking into account the new order of social platforms. The respective districts will also be required to stick up the names of the successful candidates in the various categories within the districts. This will enable the public to remain informed and the successful candidates to keep track of the timeframe within which to report to their respective stations.

Zero Tolerance on Corruption

Madam Speaker, one of the pillars of the New Dawn Administration is zero tolerance to corruption. Any officer involved in this process found to be unprofessional; caught soliciting for payments to favour anyone; or gets involved in any corrupt practices shall be visited by the law.

Madam Speaker, may I take this opportunity to inform the public to be wary of unscrupulous people who might be soliciting for bribes or any favours from applicants. I wish to appeal to the public to report such individuals to the police. I, therefore, wish to urge everyone who will be involved in this process to act fairly and professionally.

Madam Speaker, the ministry will work with security wings such as the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) during the process of recruitment in order to mitigate corrupt practices as well as enhance the integrity of the process.

Madam Speaker, it is my hope that I have provided a clear road map to the House and the nation at large on the recruitment process of 11,200 workers in the Ministry of Health. It is also my hope that the decentralised model of recruitment through human resource committees will provide an equal opportunity to every qualified health worker to be recruited in the ministry. Further, it is hoped that this model will increase transparency in the recruitment process for our health workers.

Madam Speaker, as the Government, we shall continue prioritising human resource for health in order to help achieve the universal health coverage agenda. This recruitment will not only improve the quality of healthcare, but also reduce the backlog of unemployed frontline health personnel.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, I wish to pay glowing tribute to health workers across the country for their sacrifice, gallantry and professionalism even in the face of challenging situations like the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic. With the resilience, industriousness and dedication to duty of the many health workers in our country, I am very confident that, as a team, we are ready to take on any challenge that comes our way.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister.

Madam First Deputy Speaker gave the floor to Mr Mung’andu.

Mr Nkombo: Leader of the Opposition!

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the people of Chama South this opportunity to ask a follow-up question.

Madam, I know the hon. Minister has talked about zero tolerance to corruption during the recruitment process. Indeed, corruption has been a challenge. Zambians do not want to see relatives and friends to us politicians being given priority over deserving citizens.

Madam Speaker, the recruitment of 11,200 health workers is a massive one. There are students who are completing by April, who, if not considered, might wait for another five to six years to have a chance to participate. Is the hon. Minister considering advising the human resource officers who have been stationed in our districts to consider those students in our colleges that are finishing their studies by April this year?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, in my statement, I said the recruitment of health workers is not only for 2022. In 2023, we shall recruit; and the year 2024 will be the last year that we recruit.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: It is a three year process and those who will be left out this year will be considered next year. The new entrants, especially, should not worry. We shall continue recruiting next year.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the outlined roadmap for recruitment. I want the hon. Minister to come out clearly on the issue of the recruitment roadmap. She has categorically said recruitment will be done at district level, which is a welcome move. However, I am worried about what is going to happen to those people who may push in multiple applications. For example, as area hon. Member of Parliament for Roan Constituency, I know the people who are in need of this recruitment. How will the hon. Minister identify people who will push in multiple applications in various constituencies? Why have hon. Members of Parliament been left out to help in this exercise?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, the first point is that there will be no multiple applications. Anybody who will deliberately make multiple applications will be disqualified. Secondly, hon. Members of Parliament are never left out. They are part of this Government and it is their role to ensure that there are no malpractices within this process.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: I have, on the Floor of this House, appealed to hon. Members of Parliament several times, on both the right and the left, to work with the New Dawn Government in this process because what we want for our country is better health service. So, please, let us work together. There is no issue here.

Madam Speaker, we talked about decentralisation, and the President was on the Floor of this House. He is simply walking the talk. Hon. Members have commended us for decentralising and, therefore, should help us to ensure that we do not get people who have the mind of those in the past.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Jamba (Mwembeshi): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister said the process has been decentralised to the district level. She also said the Government is employing 11,000 health workers. In the past, we saw situations in which the Government said it was building so many health posts in the country dotted around all the districts. However, we noted that only some districts on one side earned those health posts.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister able to tell us how many health workers will be allocated to be employed in each district? We do not want to see a situation where districts of the same level are allocated different numbers of health workers to be employed. For example, Shibuyunji employs 100 health workers, but a district at the same level employs 200.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister able to indicate before recruitment how many health workers will be allocated to each district, for instance, that Shibuyunji will employ 300 and Luanshya will have 200?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, my answer is going to be simple; this administration is committed to serving Zambians in an equitable manner. We have no special province in this country and there shall be no special districts.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: The reason we are decentralising is to address that problem. In the past, we had very few special provinces. We want to kill that and unite the country. There is no district in Zambia that cannot produce a nurse. So, hon. Members must watch the space.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker, there are volunteers in some constituencies who have been serving for over three to four years. Is there any consideration for them as they have been helping us from inception, even before recruitment?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I want to plead that hon. Members take this statement and read it for their constituencies, districts and provinces so that there is no misinterpretation.

Madam Speaker, I clearly stated that consideration will be given to those health workers who have worked tirelessly for many years as volunteers. I have also clarified that even in that vein, there will be exceptions. Who are the exceptions? We also know that for others it may not be that they did not want to volunteer, but they never had that opportunity.

Madam Speaker, let me also state that we are fully aware that since the announcement was made that volunteers would be considered, people started fixing and pushing in people and called them volunteers. This is why I have given stern advice – I will not call it a warning – to those that will be responsible that they should not think that when we are quiet, we do not know what is happening.

It is simply that this is a new dawn and the New Dawn Government is allowing people to protest and say things which are not correct; to be on social media to make allegations against hon. Ministers without evidence; to talk big; and be used by others from the past regime to try and make us look like we do not know what we are doing, but we keep quiet because it is their right.

Madam, we have come today to give hon. Members the road map. Hon. Members, both on the right and the left, in their various districts, I have stated, have a role to ensure that no district health director, or, indeed, any recruitment committee slots somebody in and defines them as volunteers when that is not the truth. For their own information, the locals know the truth.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: They know each other. They know who has been a volunteer. They even know who was a volunteer last year and six months ago. So, hon. Members should just do their work on the ground. Let us unite. Let us work. For the first time in this country, as we come to recruit, let us do what is right together. We have said that recruitment will be done for three consecutive years. For this year, let us all do what is right, please. Our friends and relatives have a right to be employed if they deserve to be, but I am sure we can leave them for the next recruitment. Let us just do justice to this process.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Madam Speaker, it is good to speak to the hon. Minister.

Madam Speaker, she is quite aware that in most districts in this country, where our children are going to be employed, the majority of officers are still Patriotic Front (PF) supporters.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Michelo: How is she going to ensure that when those people are given the application forms, they will do the right thing and will not start segregating, especially against those perceived to be United Party for National Development (UPND) sympathisers? What is the hon. Minister’s take?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: That question sounds loaded, especially that we are bringing in political issues, but the hon. Minister of Health can attend to it.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, let me state that in this recruitment, there is no Patriotic Front (PF), United Party for National Development (UPND) or United National Independence Party (UNIP). There is only a qualified citizen of Zambia. That should be the word, ‘qualified’. We want to make sure that all districts in Zambia are represented in the Ministry of Health and that is why we have also decentralised. We do not expect somebody to come from Choma to apply in Mansa. Why do that? You live in Choma and you have a hospital there; apply there because every district of Zambia has qualified health workers.

Madam, of course, we know that there are specific professional positions that may not be common in a particular district. For example, Chongwe may not have a specialised ‘something’. In such instances, it will be opened up and can come from any place. However, tell me, is it possible that you cannot find a cleaner in Chongwe to employ? Is it possible that you cannot get a driver to drive the new ambulances that we shall be purchasing? Is it possible that a porter cannot come from Chongwe? Do I have to get somebody from Kalomo to come to Chongwe? Is it possible?

Hon. Government Members: No!

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, the people of Zambia spoke. That is what brought this change. In this administration, the President has made it clear and he wants to walk the talk ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: ... and, as an hon. Minister who follows Presidential directives, I will not digress from there. I will do exactly that.

Madam, I appeal to hon. Members on the right and the left to work together to ensure the right thing happens this time around.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Peter Phiri (Mkaika): Madam Speaker, I know that nurses and other health workers do not work alone; they work with assistants. Is it from the 11,200 recruits that the Government will employ these other workers or will the 11,000 just be nurses and medical practitioners?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I will repeat what I said: the recruitment of 11,200 personnel is not about employing one category of health workers. It is about employing a mixture to ensure that we get quality healthcare. For example, the Chongwe District Hospital does not only require a doctor, but also requires nurses. It does not only require doctors and nurses, but also requires paramedics like laboratory technicians, drivers, cooks in the kitchen and so on and so forth. This 11,200 will take all those into account. However, as I have said, we are looking at the need in each hospital.

Madam Speaker, all health centres have been asked which persons they are missing in their hospitals. Some will say doctors while others will say they have enough doctors, but lack nurses. Some will say they have no doctors and nurses, but that they have enough cleaners and do not need any more. So, this will be according to the need. It has been a long process of going to districts and asking where vacancies or gaps are.

Madam Speaker, I want people to understand that many health posts and clinics, including big hospitals, have been built in the past decade. Some of them are not operating because there is hardly any staff. If you take into account the number of hospitals that are yet to be opened this year, it means that the 11,000 has to cater even those. If we only considered the new clinics and forgot about the old ones, what could happen would not be desirable. What we have had to do is consider that we have so many new hospitals, but also have old hospitals without enough staff. We had to do a mix up kind of equation so that at the end of this exercise, by April or May, we can begin to see some improvement across the board; not 100 per cent establishment, but, at least, 54 per cent, which is a good start. Next year, we may increase to 60 per cent and the other, we may reach 80 to 90 per cent, which would be good enough considering the fact that the PF did not do much when it came to recruitment. So, I think that if we could, for the next three years, recruit at the same high level, we shall have made good progress.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Nyambose (Chasefu): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister of health for a well articulated statement. She has clarified many concerns that Zambians had and which we, as hon. Members of Parliament, had grappled with.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has stated the categories of workers to be recruited, but I want to get her to explain something. She has seen that most of these facilities are huge investments in the health sector. Previously, the past regime ignored the most important cadre of workers, the watchmen. Are watchmen to safeguard these facilities and investments included in the number of those to be recruited?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, these follow-up questions that hon. Members of Parliament are asking are important. I know that out there, people have similar questions on their minds. When we say health workers, we mean that every category will be considered according to the needs in particular hospitals.

Madam Speaker, if, for example, in the hon. Members Constituency is a clinic which has no security, which is very important because in some of these institutions, we have very expensive equipment that requires being protected, the need for security becomes crucial. So, yes, where there is a need for security, the district shall employ security guards.

Madam Speaker, districts must look at their immediate and most important needs even when allocated a small number from workers to be recruited. We are saying that 11,200 is a huge number; yes, it is, but when you look at the demand and take into account that in the past decade, the Government used to employ only about ten, twenty, or fifty people, which was not enough. This problem did not start last year or the other year. This is a problem of decades.

Madam Speaker, over the years, we used to say that there was a shortage of health workers and we started pushing, as a country, to get more. We started creating nursing schools and so on and so forth. During that time, we used to produce 50 doctors in the whole of Zambia and those were not all for the Government. A number of them were sponsored by the mines and other specialised institutions in the country. By the time they would complete their education, they would be taken away and we would have no doctors.

Madam Speaker, today, this country is producing hundreds of doctors. The space for some of the doctors may not even be there in this one recruitment. We have to recruit, as I have said, for the three years. Hopefully, by the third year, the Government would have cleaned up every doctor on the street. We may have cleaned up all the laboratory staff and pharmacists because we have hospitals that do not have pharmacies, and pharmacists are equally important. These young men and women who work in laboratories are very important for diagnostics. So, the short answer is that the 11,200 recruits will not only be specialised medical people, but also services people like drivers, sweepers and, indeed, security.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, the roadmap for the recruitment of health workers at district level meets with the expectations of the people of Chama North and I hope that it also meets with the expectations of the rest of the people of Zambia. At least, it is going to accord an opportunity for local people to have a window of opportunity to get those jobs, unlike in the past.

Madam Speaker, Zambia is a Christian Nation. In the olden days, the nursing field was a calling. However, over the years, it has been infiltrated by people who just want jobs because there are no other jobs in the country. Once they are employed, they display very bad conduct, mistreating patients. Is the Government going to take into account Christian values in recruiting those health workers?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, indeed, over the years, we have seen a tendency where people get into jobs just for the sake of the money and not because they have a calling. It is just like us politicians nowadays; you find politicians becoming hon. Members of Parliament or councillors not because they want to serve people, but because they think it is a route to buy a vehicle or to be called honourable. This is an issue of concern to this administration and it is worrying.

Madam Speaker, it is not only that we are a Christian Nation, but even in the profession of health is a code of conduct that is taught about the need to serve life as a priority. In the past, we never heard of a health worker going on strike, let alone match on the streets even where there is no need to do that. It was unheard of. However, this is the situation that this country finds itself in, which I am praying and hoping all of us, together, can work to change. We need to change the narrative of the culture of public servants.

Madam Speaker, to be specific, some of us worry that if we have people who match for nothing, what about when they have to treat a patient? Will they not leave the patient to die because they want an increment or because there are no drugs?

Madam Speaker, I think there are decent ways and means in which people can complain, especially to this Government which has been very transparent. I have tried as much as possible on Floor of this House to give information and I have asked hon. Members of this House and other interested stakeholders to work together with us in the Government so that we can achieve what is good for the country.

Madam Speaker, I hope that as the recruitment is conducted, the issue of discipline will be taken into account. It is important and cardinal. There is no point in recruiting a nurse or a pharmacist who is a known thief or a doctor who is known to be a trouble maker. It will not help this country. We have to move forward.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker gave the Floor to Mr Menyani Zulu, but he was unavailable.

Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga): Madam Speaker, the ministerial statement by the hon. Minister is a New Year’s gift to the people of Zambia, especially in my province and district which were precluded from any employment in the last ten years.

Madam Speaker, the Government has the best fit in terms of governance for this country and that is decentralisation. We were subjected to empty slogans like, ‘without leaving any one behind,’ when most of us from my province were left out. Employing district by district is the way to go and we would like to see this in the employment of teachers and in many other sectors of the Civil Service.

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, are you debating or you are asking a question?

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, are our truant hon. Colleagues who have been suspended going to be involved in this selection process?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I really cannot answer the last part of the question. I will seek your guidance because of the ruling you made, as to the extent of that suspension. I am not sure whether it extends to their constituencies. So, I will seek your indulgence.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, there is no need to answer the second part of the question. I think it is a bit too political.

I will take the last four questions from the hon. Member for Nyimba, the hon. Member for Lumezi, the hon. Member for Kafue and the hon. Member for Chienge, in that order.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker gave the Floor to Mr Menyani Zulu, but he was unavailable.

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, are you debating or you are asking a question?

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, are our truant hon. Colleagues who have been suspended going to be involved in this selection process?

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, there is no need to answer the second part of the question. I think it is a bit too political.

I will take the last four questions from the hon. Member for Nyimba, the hon. Member for Lumezi, the hon. Member for Kafue and the hon. Member for Chienge, in that order.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, I come from a very complicated constituency. There are certain areas in my constituency where there is no Government representation and where no Government official or hon. Minister has ever reached. The community, through the Community Resource Board’s money from BioCarbon Partners, has tried to construct new clinics. I think we are building new clinics. We have completed one and are building another.

Madam Speaker, the biggest problem I have when I go into these areas is that I find that cleaners and watchmen come from either Lusaka or Chipata. At the end of the day, when elephants start terrorising the areas, they desert the clinics.

Madam Speaker, I know the hon. Minister has moved around the country and, maybe, she even knows these places in the valleys of Luangwa and Lukusashi. Will the Government relax or minimise the qualifications for cleaners and watchmen and, maybe, just demand a Grade 12 certificate without a further condition of five ordinary level (O-level) subjects?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, this is why we said that we would not allow that anyone gets a guard from Chongwe and takes him/her to the valley. Why would one do that? We know those things used to happen; he is right. That is exactly what was happening, but I have already stated that the New Dawn Government, under the President, has made it very clear that it is uniting this country. It is recognising all the ten provinces as equal partners in national development; there are no exceptions. Therefore, the people in Chongwe are the ones who will become drivers and cleaners in Chongwe. We shall only bend for professions which cannot be found in certain areas. However, I am not so sure that after so many years of independence, we do not have, for example, qualified nurses in some districts.

Madam Speaker, the answer is simple. We must, as much as possible, ensure that local people are employed for local jobs.

Madam Speaker, like the President stated, even when it comes to development funds and the implementation of projects such as the building of schools and the production of school desks, we will use local people. That is the spirit that everybody must understand. I hope civil servants out there are getting this information clear and straight. Any deviation, you are gone. It is as simple as that.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Health has been very clear on the issue of hiring people, for example, from Choma to work in Mansa. The hon. Minister, –

Mr Haimbe: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munir Zulu paused.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you are supposed to continue until I tell you to stop.

Mr Munir Zulu: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Just finish asking your question.

Mr Munir Zulu: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, there are those who are married and whose husbands work from Mfuwe, for example; in Lumezi Constituency, that is very common. We have a school of nursing in Lumezi –

Mr Haimbe: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 206 on the dress code for hon. Members. To be very brief, Standing Order 206(1) provides that:

“The official dress for a male member shall be -

a formal executive suit, or a pair of long trousers, a shirt, a necktie and jacket;
a toga;
a decent traditional attire such as siziba ; or
a safari suit, with long or short sleeves and a scarf or a necktie.”

Madam Speaker, the manner of dress of the hon. Member who is speaking does not exhibit either a necktie or a scarf. I ask for the Speaker’s ruling on that.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Lumezi is definitely out of order.

Hon. Government Members: Stand up!

Mr Munir Zulu displayed the toga to the Madam First Deputy Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Sorry, we could not see the scarf.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Okay, thank you.

Mr Munir Zulu: I am obliged, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Sorry for that, hon. Member. Your scarf was a bit hidden. You are, therefore, dressed appropriately for this House. Did you wind up your question? You may continue.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I know it is in his nature to always not want to see me in this House, but I am equal to the task, my brother.

Laughter

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, the good people of Lumezi are concerned about the hon. Minister’s submission that someone who is in Choma cannot get a job in Mansa. The good people of Lumezi are concerned about this. The New Dawn Government has been preaching that it is going to unite families; so how does it intend to unite spouses who are in different districts of this country with the hon. Minister’s submission that the ministry shall only give jobs to in Chongwe to people in Chongwe who qualify when she knows very well that some people have been disjoined from their families as a result of jobs?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, my hope is that the hon. Member is asking these questions in order to help the public out there to get me clearly. In my statement, I took into account the issue he has raised, but I am thankful.

Madam Speaker, the answer is as clear as follows: If I am in Chongwe, working or not working and my husband is working in Mansa as a teacher and I want to be employed in Mansa because my husband is in Mansa, that is uniting the family. That will be welcome.

Madam Speaker, there is a principle that every general rule has an exception. Let those with exceptions apply accordingly. In any case, we know that suddenly people are posing as wives and husbands when they are not. They are even calling their own brothers as husbands in order to run away from the issue. However, if there is a good point, then why not?

Madam Speaker, like I said, in some instances, people might not even be willing to apply for a particular job and those who would have applied would be only those from such a point. What we do not want, hon. Members, through the Speaker, is what was happening before. Like you heard from both sides, the right and the left, where complaints were raised that you would find that even a general worker was coming from another district and the people living in the district were denied employment. Surely, gentlemen and ladies, is that what we want to continue in our country? No, let us change, all of us together. Let our people, for the first time, feel that this is their country and that as long as they qualify, they will get the job and not because they know the hon. Minister or the hon. Member of Parliament. No. If somebody qualifies, let us get that person employed. So, please, let us just work together just this one time so that this process can be smooth.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

I thank you, Madam.

Mrs Chonya (Kafue): Madam Speaker, may I start by congratulating the iron lady for, as usual, articulating very well this afternoon.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chonya: I also commend the New Dawn Government for this recruitment which will bring a lot of relief to our unemployed medical people.

Madam Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to confirm whether it is due to this deficit in man power that some medical facilities, especially rural clinics and health posts, operate for short hours. Furthermore, whether, with this recruitment, we are going to see those facilities extend their operating hours? This is really an issue for most of our rural health centres.

Ms Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kafue for the important point. I want to state from the outset that ordinarily, hospitals and health centres are supposed to operate twenty-four hours a day seven days a week. However, because of shortage of staff, you find that some close at awkward times when people expect a service. Our hope and intention for this recruitment is basically to begin to cure some of those shortcomings in our wish to deliver better services to our people.

Madam Speaker, let me use the opportunity in responding to the hon. Member to say that we must say thank you to the President because this is not a joke.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear.

Mrs Masebo: This recruitment is not a joke. It takes vision and commitment to why we sought to be elected. This is why we want and desire to work together as a nation. It is not about the United Party for National Development (UPND) and the Patriotic Front (PF) and chakuti chakuti, uh uh. We want to work as Zambians, together. After all, the people who will be employed will be health workers for the Government of the Republic of Zambia (GRZ) and the people of Zambia, irrespective of whom and where they come from.

I thank you, Madam.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, I really appreciate the road map that the hon. Minister has given. However, I am really concerned about the fact that each time hon. Ministers come on the Floor of the House, they say ‘unlike the way it was in the previous Government.’ The previous Government ended up to, maybe, 1,000 jobs. This Government has promised 11,200 jobs for medical personnel. Now we are being told that the recruitment will be rolled out over a period of three years.

Madam Speaker, this is the New Dawn Government and we do not expect it to be changing like a chameleon where, today, it tells the nation this, and the next day the other. We are so hopeful because we have children who have graduated and others who are going to graduate over the period of three years –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, can you, please, be specific with your question. What is your question?

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, my question is: we have children who are graduating and those who will graduate over the next three years. What will happen to the ones who will be left out, together with those who are going to graduate later? Already, we are talking about 11,200 being employed over a period of three years. So, what about those who will be left out in process because we have more than 11,000 medical personnel who are unemployed?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, I thought the hon. Minister clearly stated that they will be employing every year for the next three years.

Rev. Katuta: We have more than 30,000

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Anyway, I will let the hon. Minister clarify. Hon. Minister, maybe you can clarify. I know you had answered this question.

Hon. UPND Members: Hammer, hammer!

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, it actually worries me that, if Members of Parliament do not get the facts correctly now, what about the people out there? It is very dangerous. So, please, hon. Members of Parliament, pay attention.

Madam Speaker, I said that the President came here and made a promise that he would employ 11,200. I said that the money has been allocated and Treasury authority will be issued and that by 1^st April, 2022, we shall employ 11,200.

Madam Speaker, I have said, and I will repeat, that next year, we are going to, again, employ some more. The other year, 2024, we shall, again, employ another big number. So, what I have said is that this administration is walking the talk. That is why the hon. Member of Parliament must sit in the House and not listen to things she cannot follow.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

EXPANSION OF THE GREAT NORTH ROAD

281. Mr Nkulukusa (Katuba) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

whether the Government has any plans to expand the Great North Road between 6 Miles and 15 Miles in Katuba Parliamentary Constituency to reduce traffic congestion on the stretch of the Road; and
if so, when the plans will be implemented.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, the Government plans to upgrade the Great North Road between 6 miles and 15 miles in Katuba Parliamentary Constituency as part of the project for the upgrading of the Lusaka/Ndola Road to a dual carriage way. The works on the project will only commence once financing for the project has been secured. The Government is exploring the possibility of financing the project using the public-private partnership (PPP) approach.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Rev. Katuta: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order on the hon. Minister who was just on the Floor, the hon. Minister of Health, regarding her response to my question.

Madam Speaker, the Executive is accountable to the people of Zambia. The reason why Zoom has been introduced is that hon. Members of Parliament can participate in national issues in Parliament from wherever they are. Is the hon. Minister of Health, who was on the Floor of the House, in order to inform this nation and the people of Chienge that the hon. Member of Parliament for Chienge should be seated in the House when Parliament has rules that allow her to participate from wherever she is?

Some hon. Members, like myself, have traveled. Does the hon. Minister mean that we cannot participate unless we are in the House? Was the hon. Minister in order to mislead the people of Chienge that their hon. Member of Parliament does not sit in Parliament and that is why she is asking certain questions?

I need your guidance or serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I think the way the question was posed also brought out that reaction from the hon. Minister.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I heard words such as ‘chameleon’ and so on and so forth. However, you have the right to be wherever you are, but let us try to be attentive so that we follow what is being shared on the Floor of the House.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I indicated that actually, that question was raised and answered. So, hon. Member, the hon. Minister was, of course, out of order to say you do not stay in the House because you can stay anywhere. However, let us follow the proceedings so that we are not taken backwards.

Mr Nkulukusa (Katuba): Madam Speaker, I know that the issue of the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriage way is going to take long because of the process and the lack of finances. We are looking at this stretch of less than 10 km which sometimes takes three hours for people travelling from Lusaka to the Copperbelt or vice versa. On busy days, almost three hours will be consumed on kilometers that are less than ten. Is there no way that there could be a proviso in the short term for something to be done on this stretch as we wait for the long term solution which is the dual carriageway from Lusaka to Ndola?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, in the main, the traffic that passes through this stretch is the same traffic that passes through other stretches beyond that. So, if there is congestion there, there will also be congestion ahead of that spot. However, the point is that the New Dawn Government is working very hard to ensure that this public-private partnership (PPP) that we are proposing is embarked upon as quickly is possible.

The hon. Member and other hon. Members will have noticed that we had put an advert in the papers inviting interested parties that wanted to participate on the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriageway to express their interest. The closure for the day of expression of interest was 11^th March, 2022, which we have already reached. I think it was Friday. This really shows the speed at which we are moving. So, rather than ask for a dual carriage way just to cover this little stretch, I am asking members of the public and the citizens of this country, including residents of Katuba Parliamentary Constituency, to bear with the New Dawn Government. We are progressing in these discussions with prospective bidders and when we finish, we shall start the process of dualising this road.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, the Ndola/Lusaka Road is one of the most lucrative highways we have in the country. Going by the request from the hon. Member of Parliament for Katuba, I do not think it would be too much to ask for the hon. Minister to reserve or get some money from the Katuba Toll Gate, which I know makes a lot of money, to work on that stretch. I know that he has a good idea of doing a dual carriage way considering that he has advertised.

Madam Speaker, is it possible that we can get some money from the Katuba Toll Gate and work on that stretch? It is really pathetic to drive at 1700 hours on that road.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, our priority at the moment is to conclude the discussions so that we can widen the road, and not only widen it, but turn it into a dual carriage way. Of course, work will start from the Lusaka end, which will very quickly cover the stretch we are talking about from six miles to ten miles.

Madam Speaker, as regards the revenues arising from the Katuba Toll Gate, we must be very careful in our understanding. They are not revenues for Katuba. They are for the whole stretch of the road right up to the Copperbelt, and it is for the whole country. It is from this that we get money to undertake the works we do. If you listen to questions in this Parliament, a number of hon. Members of Parliament have concerns about their roads. It is these revenues that feed into the Budget from where we undertake these works throughout the country.

Madam Speaker, we think that as a Government, we are doing a good thing by taking the whole of the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriage Way and pushing it through the PPP. The question that arises is how soon we can do that. That is why, I have said in my answer that we are doing everything in our power to ensure that we conclude the discussions and award this contract so that this work can start as quickly as possible.

Madam, whether we can do it faster by sourcing other monies which are not in the Budget is where the issue is. I have said that the Budget is fully spoken for, but the Government is doing everything to conclude discussions with lenders and so on and so forth to create fiscal space, and if we do that, by mid-year, which is about June/July 2022, there may well be a Supplementary Budget. However, I want the discussions on the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriage Way to be completed so that we can start the work under PPP even ahead of the Supplementary Budget that we may have mid-year.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, I want to support the apprehension that has been raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Katuba.

Madam Speaker, it has become a very big challenge, especially for us who come from the kopala and the Central Province to drive on this road. We think twice before starting off. At the Mungule Turn Off especially is total chaos.

The hon. Minister has stated the fact that there is a PPP that will be put in place, but I ask why the Government has gone to the extent of neglecting such an important road and letting it go into the state it is? What is he, as the hon. Minister in that ministry going to do once he does a better road? Is he going to carry out periodical maintenance of the stretch of the road so that it does not deteriorate to the levels that we are seeing today?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, you can pick what to answer because the hon. Member loaded the question.

Laughter

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, yes, indeed, the hon. Member is asking why an important road like that one has been neglected. He is a bit late. He should have asked before certain people were suspended from this House so that they could answer.

Laughter

Eng. Milupi: We have not neglected the road. We found the road neglected. We are trying to correct that which was neglected. We are also changing the paradigm. There is a paradigm shift here. In the past, Madam Speaker, roads were constructed or rehabilitated and then left completely alone. An example is the ring road here in Lusaka; look at the condition in which it is. Maintenance was not carried out. The New Dawn Administration is changing the paradigm. Not only are we going to construct or rehabilitate roads, we are going to put in place maintenance procedures.

Madam Speaker, yesterday, in the afternoon, I spent time on the Kafue Road near Chilanga because we are trying to see whether we can introduce mechanised methods of pothole patching so that it can be done properly and much faster. So, I spent time observing this. If that succeeds, we shall incorporate it as part of regular maintenance of our roads. A road is an engineering infrastructure. Once you procure it, you have to incorporate maintenance if you want it to last the designed life. That is what this New Dawn Administration is going to be doing from this time going forward.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. Daka (Chadiza): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the people of Chadiza a chance to ask a question. I thank the hon. Minister for his wonderful responses.

Madam Speaker, the public-private partnership (PPP) model, especially in the road sector, from its inception or enactment in 2009 has not yielded any positive results. In short, the Act that governs the PPP model in a short term could be considered impotent. I want to know when the hon. Minister is bringing the Act before this House so that we can repeal and replace it because in its current state, he will agree with me, it cannot yield any meaningful result in the desired stipulated time.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Although that is a different field far away from the main question, I do not know whether the hon. Minister has any response for it.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, maybe it is a bonus question from Hon. Eng. Daka. He says that since 2009, the PPP model has not yielded any results. He is probably right. The reason for that is that the United Party for National Development (UPND) was not in power.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: Had it been in power, it would have yielded results. The second part of his question was: are we amending the Act? The answer is yes; during this Session. The Bill has already gone through Cabinet and is being presented to this House. We expect support from him to ensure that we have an Act which will respond to the needs of this country in as far as the use of the PPP model is concerned.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development who has been working tirelessly to ensure that we put our roads back to normalcy. I want to make a request on behalf of the people of Mufulira. The Mufulira/Ndola Road has remained a problem road since 2009. As the hon. Minister is considering a public-private partnership (PPP) model between Ndola and Lusaka, is he considering extending the same to Mufulira so that the people of Mufulira are not left out in the rebuilding of roads in Zambia?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I am going to disqualify that question because the question at hand is for the Great North Road between 6 and 15 miles. I think you can raise a separate question specifically for Mufulira.

We are going to skip Question 282 because the hon. Member for Mpika is not around. His question will be raised when he will be in the House.

STALLED CONSTRUCTION OF THE MATERNITY WARD AT MUSHINDAMO CLINIC

283. Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East) asked the Minister of Health:

why the construction of the maternity ward at Mushindamo Clinic in Mushindamo District has stalled;
when the project will resume;
what the total cost of the outstanding works is; and
what the time frame for the completion of the project is.

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Can we have some silence in the House. Let us listen to the response by the hon. Minister of Health.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, the construction of the maternity ward in Mushindamo Clinic stalled because of the non-availability of funds. The House may wish to note that this was a labour based project where the provincial health office was the client.

Madam Speaker, the project will resume in 2023.

Madam Speaker, the total cost for the outstanding works will be determined at the time of planning for the 2023 works.

Madam Speaker, the timeframe for the completion of the project will be determined when the project resumes. The House may wish to note that the Government will shift from a labour based approach to a full contract as a way of avoiding what happened before.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, the said maternity ward was actually built up to roof level and then the materials were vandalised. So, what have just remained are the walls and the rafters for the roof. Looking at what the hon. Minister has said, that works will resume in 2023, probably that is a long period of time to wait. I would wish that, maybe, through the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) or some kind of allocation from the Ministry of Health, some funds can be sourced towards that project so that it can be completed and can begin to service the people of Solwezi East or Mushindamo District as opposed to just leaving it idle like that for a long time. It has been standing like that for more than five years. That is my request, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I do not know whether that request stands for the hon. Minister because I do not think the hon. Minister comes into your Constituency Development Fund (CDF) in your constituency.

Hon. Minister, do you have any advice for him?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank you for your guidance, which is very correct. I am just disappointed in that the hon. Member is saying this has been the case for the last fifteen years. May I request, through you, that the hon. Member comes to the ministry so that we see how we can work together in ensuring that we do the best for the people.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

The First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, we are going to skip Question 284. It will be covered when the hon. Member for Milanzi will be in the House.

SELLING OF LAND OWNED BY PALABANA UNIVERITY

285. Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga) asked the Minister of Lands and Natural Resources:

whether the land owned by the Palabana University, between Palabana, Moono and Mikango roads, in Chongwe District has been sold;
if not, why private developers have taken over and are developing the land; and
what measures the Government is taking to address the situation.

The Minister of Lands and Natural Resources (Mr Muchima): Madam Speaker, our investigations show that the land owned by the Palabana University has not been sold as such.

Madam Speaker, between 2015 and 2019, authority was granted by controlling officers from the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock to re-plan, number and allocate part of the institutional land to individuals and institutions. The developments taking place on the land came about as a result of authorities granted by controlling officers who were duty bound to protect the institutional land.

Madam Speaker, the following are the measures addressing the above situation:

my ministry has constituted a task force to review the process of allocation of the Palabana University land with a view to repossess;
pursuant to Cabinet Circular No. 4 of 2018, my ministry will enhance engagements with all the Government ministries, parastatal and all spending agencies relating to the titling of Government properties; and
the Government through the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources began the process of issuing certificates of title to Government properties under the National Land Titling Programme.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

_______

MOTIONS

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON LEGAL AFFAIRS, HUMAN RIGHTS AND GOVERNANCE

Mr Andeleki (Katombola): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Legal Affairs, Human Rights and Governance on the petition to amend the Industrial and Labour Relations Act, Chapter 269 of the Laws of Zambia.

The First Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Andeleki: Madam Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order No.125 of the National Assembly of Zambia, Standing Orders, 2021, a petition that has been laid on the Table of the House shall be referred to an appropriate Committee for consideration. Thus, in line with Standing Order No. 125(2), the Committee considered the petition in which Mr Chilufya is urging the National Assembly to amend Section 19(3)(b) of the Industrial and Labour Relations Act, Chapter 269 of the Laws of Zambia, to provide for the following:

punishment of a judge for failure to deliver a judgment within the prescribed time limit;
order a judge to pay costs of litigation for failure to deliver judgment within the prescribed period; and
remove a judge from office for failure to deliver judgment within the prescribed time limit.

Madam Speaker, in order to better understand the ramifications of the petition, the Committee interacted with several stakeholders who tendered both written and oral submissions.

Madam Speaker, since hon. Members have had the opportunity to peruse the Committee’s report, I will only highlight the salient issues contained therein.

Madam Speaker, from the outset, I wish to state that the Committee observes that the correct section that should have been quoted by the petitioner is Section 85(3) of the Industrial and Labour Relations Act, Chapter 269 of the Laws of Zambia, which provides for the jurisdiction of the Industrial Relations Court. Section 19(3) of the Industrial and Labour Relations (Amendment) Act, No. 8 of 2008, amended Section 85 of the Principal Act by deleting sub-Section (3). Section 85(3), as amended by Act No. 8 of 2008 provides that:

“the court shall not consider a complaint or an application unless the complainant or applicant presents the complaint or application to the court:

within ninety days of exhausting the administrative channels available to the complainant or applicant; or
where there are no administrative channels available to the complainant or applicant, within ninety days of the occurrence of the event which gave rise to the complaint or application.

provided that –

upon application by the complainant or applicant, the court may extend the period in which the complaint or application may be presented before it; and
the court shall dispose of the matter within a period of one year from the day on which the complaint or application is presented to it.”

Madam Speaker, the Committee is aware that there has been a general increase in the number of cases being filed before the Industrial Relations Court than in the past. The number of cases being recommenced –

The First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Andeleki: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I was about to say the Committee is aware that there has been a general increase in the number of cases filed before the industrial relations court than in the past. The number of cases being recommenced has also increased as a consequence of the existence of section 19(3)(b)(ii) of Industrial and Labour Relations (Amendment) Act, No. 8 of 2008 and the decision of the Court of Appeal in the case of Guardall Security Group Limited V Reinford Kabwe, Appeal No. 44 of 2019, where it was held that the Industrial Relations Court has no jurisdiction to hear and determine a matter which goes beyond one year from the date of the complaint or application being lodged.

Madam, the Committee is alive to the fact that the proposals by the petitioner are an indication of the general dissatisfaction and/or frustration of litigants with the prevailing conditions at the Industrial Relations Court. However, the Committee is of the view that any threat to the rights of a judge relating to the tenure of office arising from a matter that he or she is handling will affect his or her independence. Therefore, removing judges from office or requiring judges to bear the cost for litigants because a matter has not been disposed of within the statutory period has potential to make judges hear and determine matters hastily. This may result in litigants not being given a fair trial, resulting in the miscarriage of justice and the violation of citizens’ civil rights.

Madam, in this regard, the Committee recommends that where failure to deliver judgment is genuinely attributed to a judge, litigants can invoke the provisions of Articles 143 and 144 of the Constitution of Zambia, Chapter 1 of the Laws of Zambia, to remove a judge, as these provisions are adequate.

Madam Speaker, further, the Committee is of the considered view that provisions to deal with misconduct or inefficiency by judges, where they consistently fail to deliver judgments in good time, and which do not constitute grounds for removal of a judge from office, should be created in the Judicial Code of Conduct for enforcement by the Judge-in-Charge. The Committee, therefore, recommends the classification of unjustified delayed judgments as a form of incompetence under the Judicial (Code of Conduct) Act, No. 13 of 1999, as amended by Act No.13 of 2006.

Madam Speaker, the Committee is aware that the industrial relations court was established in an effort to find solutions without being stifled by procedure, and to provide simpler, cost-effective and more accessible justice within the scope of the industrial relations matters. The Committee bears in mind the numerous challenges faced by the Industrial Relations Court, some of which are outlined on pages 7 through to 11 of the report. In this regard, the Committee recommends that section 85(3)(b)(ii) should be amended by including a proviso under the current section. The proviso should take into account that there are complexities whenever a matter is being heard and determined, and where extenuating circumstances exist, a matter should be disposed of within twelve months following the expiration of the statutory period.

Madam speaker, the Committee wishes to thank the petitioner and the stakeholders who made both oral and written submissions on the petition. The Committee also wishes to express its gratitude to the Office of the Speaker and the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the guidance and services rendered to it during the consideration of the petition.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Miyutu: Now, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I rise to support the Motion which is on the Floor of the House. to encourage the House to adopt the Report of the Committee on Legal Affairs, Human Rights and Governance on the Petition to Amend the Industrial and Labour Relations Act, Chapter 269 of the Laws of Zambia so ably moved by the Chairperson of the Committee.

Madam Speaker, the report has been availed to the House and the mover as highlighted major events in it. My job is just to indicate one or two concerns which have arisen.

Madam Speaker, the first of the two concerns I want to highlight is in relation to the disposal of a matter within the twelve months period stated by law. The Committee finds this practically difficult to implement. The Committee is aware that the courts are under a strain which has resulted in delays in disposing of matters within the prescribed time. These delays are not deliberate, but are as a result of many factors.

Madam Speaker, the Committee learnt of the critical shortage of courtrooms in the republic and a critical shortage of judges.

Madam, other challenges are in relation to budgetary allocations. The Committee learnt that the allocations were not sufficient to enable courts dispose of these matters as prescribed by law.

Madam Speaker, judges also have other added responsibilities. This adds up to their duties and reduces the time they should attend to court matters.

Madam, because of the accrued numbers of cases, there is a backlog of cases. So, disposing of matters within twelve months has become practically impossible.

Madam Speaker, we have found ourselves in the Coronavirus Virus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) situation, which was unforeseen. Nobody could think there would be such a condition, which affected every sector of this Government and the globe. So, two judges were affected.

So, because of this, the Committee recommends that there be a provision that if cases are not disposed of within the first statutory period, there be an extension of another year so that we give space to judges to dispose of these matters.

Madam Speaker, the Committee also learnt that in the 2016 amendments of the Constitution, the Industrial Relations Court was found to be a division of the High Court. It became a body of the High Court moving along with its rules; the Industrial and Labour Relations Act, Chapter 269 of the Laws of Zambia and the Industrial Relations Court Rules, Statutory Instrument No.34 of 1996. It was the court’s recommendation that the Industrial Relations Court Rules Statutory Instrument No.36 of 1996 be repealed and replaced to align them with the High Court (Amendment) Rules, Statutory Instrument No.58 of 2020. This will remove the inconvenience caused to litigants who are required to re-launch a case that is not disposed of within twelve months.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, let me thank you, your office and the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the assistance rendered to the Committee for its report.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mrs Chonya (Kafue): Madam Speaker, the people of Kafue wanted to be the first ones to submit on this very important subject, albeit very briefly, to stand in support of the report, especially to the extent that it entails the expeditious disposal of cases before courts.

Madam, matters before the Industrial Relations Court, you will agree with me, equally require justice to be done like any other matters that are before other courts. There is an adage that says justice delayed is justice denied. Of late, I have been interacting a lot with workers of Kafue, who work for various workplaces and I have discovered that there are quite a number of their cases pending before the Industrial Relations Court.

This is why I stand to support the recommendations of the Committee that, indeed, we need to reform the operations of the Industrial Relations Court so that people can quickly see justice done. If this is done, it will enhance the quest by the New Dawn Government to implement decent workplace policies which will, in turn, promote productivity. Once our workers are productive, it will further contribute to our country’s gross domestic product (GDP) and help us move towards realising our national Vision 2030 where we want to see Zambia become a prosperous middle-income country.

Madam Speaker, I thought I should just make those few remarks in sympathising with the workers of Kafue and, indeed, other workers countrywide who have not seen justice due to the operational bottlenecks that this court has displayed.

Madam Speaker, I wish to commend the Committee, once again, for doing a thorough job with regard to the topic on the Floor.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Jamba (Mwembezhi): Madam Speaker, I want to thank the Chairperson of the Committee and those who looked into this matter.

Madam, I want to echo what the hon. Member for Kafue said. Justice delayed is justice denied. I think it is very important to have special cases. This idea of one year to dispose of cases is very important, but in support of the same, just in case a judge is sick or something happens, there must just be special cases.

Madam Speaker, the idea that judges have too many things or whatever – the idea is that if we enact and enhance such a law so that cases are disposed of within a stipulated time, the other arm of the Government that looks into the employment of judges and tries to see that there is enough manpower is going to take keen interest in ensuring that these courts are staffed and there is enough room. Someone may say there is not enough room to tackle these cases, but that is not enough reason to not give a timeline for when a case must be disposed of.

Madam Speaker, people like me, even if we do not debate ourselves, used to work for the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM) back then. However, when we go to court for cases, they are always being prolonged. We are told to go at different times after filing a case, but by the time we realise that time has lapsed, we would not even have sat and these people are not compelled.

Madam, I want to agree with the Committee that there must be a compulsion in our Laws of Zambia so that even when people work, they know that there is a time limit to everything. We cannot just be going on anyhow with prolonged cases where one is told, no, tomorrow, but by the time one realises, one year has elapsed. When one asks where the judge was, one is told that they were busy, there was no court space or there were no employees. Those are some of the lame excuses that are given.

Madam Speaker, I want to thank the Committee for suggesting that we should go the way of extending the period to one year.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mulebwa (Kafulafuta): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving us a chance to air our views on the Motion of the Floor.

Madam, I wish to highly commend the work that has been done by the Committee. I have made some serious observations on how matters have been treated in the courts of law and I think that the work done is fabulous.

Madam Speaker, to say that judges have a lot of work cannot be sustained because we all have pressure of work. I see the work that is done in this House, for example. The presentation that was done by the hon. Minister of Health earlier demonstrated that there was deep research that was done and that did not come on a silver platter. We all have the pressure of work. So, what we need is justice for every case that comes on.

Madam, what has been going on cannot be sustained and allowed to continue. Sometimes, we know that judges may not be the cause of the delay in the disposal of a case. Sometimes, it may be the lawyers, the legal counsel, who may continuously ask for adjournments so that they make more money. I think every law student has been told that they must make four or five times more than their salary. As a result, they keep dragging cases. In that case, a judge is expected to put his/her foot down and ensure that a case is disposed of expeditiously. I do not think this is a matter that we can break our sweat on debating because it is a straightforward matter. This must be done and must be done as soon as possible.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Minister of Justice (Mr Haimbe): Madam Speaker, in supporting the Motion to adopt the report by the Committee, the ministry wishes to point out some salient factors.

Madam Speaker, Section 85 of the Industrial and Labour Relations Act, Chapter 269 of the Laws of Zambia, sets out the jurisdiction of the court. Particularly, Sub-section (3) provides a timeframe within which a complaint or an application can be brought before the court and the period within which a matter ought to be disposed of. This, indeed, is the subject matter of the petition that was before the Committee for consideration.

Madam Speaker, the said provision in Section 85(3) of the Act is clear and unambiguous. It clearly sets the timeframe within which a complaint or application can be presented to the court and the timeframe within which the matter ought to be disposed of after a complaint or application is presented to the court. The period within which a matter ought to be disposed of is one year from the date on which the complaint or application is presented to the court. Naturally, this presents challenges in the unique system that we find ourselves in and the challenges that the judiciary currently faces.

Madam Speaker, this position, as stated above, was reaffirmed in the case of Guardall Security Group and Reinford Kabwe, Appeal No. 44 of 2019. In arriving at its decision, the court showed a nexus between two varying sections of the Act. The court highlighted in the aforementioned case that there currently exists two provisions with the time limit. The first time limit found under Section 85(3) and the other under Section 94. Under Section 94, the time limit begins to run after the close of the hearing and under Section 85(3) the time limit begins to run from the point a complaint or application is presented to the court until the disposal of the complaint or application. The aforementioned case also showed the mischief behind the 2008 amendment to the Industrial and Labour Relation Act, which was the delay of disposal of industrial relations cases.

Madam Speaker, the time frame was further discussed in the case of City Bank Zambia Limited vs Suhayl Dudhia, Appeal No. 16 of 2020 in which the court remitted the case back to the High Court for rehearing before another judge of competent jurisdiction for failure of the court to dispose of the matter within a period of one year from the date on which the complaint or application was presented.

Madam Speaker, this presents a unique challenge to litigants because in those circumstances where a court fails to dispose of a matter for any reason as suggested by the Committee in its deliberations, the outcome is that litigants bear the brunt of such failure.

Madam Speaker, on the premise of the foregoing, it is important to note, firstly, that the amendments made to Section 85 of the Act were in an effort to cure delay in the disposal of industrial relations cases. Therefore, in considering the injustice occasioned on litigants, consideration should also be had to the quick determination of industrial relations cases so as not to return to the situation that existed prior to 2008 where cases were inordinately delayed.

Madam Speaker, in making the above consideration, however, the court in the Guardall Security Group case did note that although the court is permitted to extend the time in which a complaint or application can be presented before it, the same powers are not accorded with respect to the extension of time with respect to the disposal of the matter regardless of whether the delay was occasioned by the court or other players.

Madam Speaker, in this regard, the considerations of your Committee come to the fore as showing that there is a need for a proper and delicate balance between the interests of the litigants and the ability of the court to dispose of matters expeditiously. Therefore, as we stand in support of the Motion, we wish to urge, however, that an appropriate level of caution be undertaken to ensure that whilst removing the requirement for a year, any timeframe that is considered in amending the Act should also take into consideration the need for expeditious conclusion of cases.

Madam Speaker, we support the Motion.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Andeleki (Katombola): Madam Speaker, on behalf of the Committee on Legal Affairs, Human Rights and Governance, allow me to express gratitude to the hon. Members and the House for supporting the Motion to amend the Industrial and Labour Relations Act.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Question put and agreed to.

MOTION OF THANKS

Mrs Chonya (Kafue): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the thanks of this Assembly be recorded for the exposition of public policy contained in His Excellency the President’s Address.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Nyambose (Chasefu): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mrs Chonya: Madam Speaker, let me begin by thanking you for according me this rare honour and privilege of moving the Motion of Thanks to the speech by Mr Hakainde Hichilema, President of the Republic of Zambia, on the progress made in the Application of National Values and Principles delivered on Friday, 11^th March, 2022.

Madam Speaker, before I begin my speech, allow me to join the rest of the country in conveying my heartfelt condolences to the family of the Fourth Republican President and the nation at large on the untimely death of His Excellency Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda, fondly known as RB. I pray that the almighty God comforts the bereaved family.

Madam Speaker, the President raised a number of pertinent issues in his speech. Allow me to highlight just a few.

Madam Speaker, on morality and ethics, let me begin by stating that the issues that the President raised in this regard are very close to my heart and they pertain to issues of teenage pregnancy and child marriage.

Madam Speaker, as you may be aware, Zambia is among the top twenty countries with the highest prevalence rate of child marriage in the world with approximately 31 per cent of women marrying before their eighteenth birthday. I, therefore, totally agree with the President that teenage pregnancies affect the lives of both young mothers and their children. The children of adolescent mothers are more likely to be stunted and malnourished while young mothers experience complications. Young mothers are so unlikely to be able to provide for their children, particularly, as most often, they drop out of school once pregnant.

Madam Speaker, let me seize this opportunity to applaud the New Dawn Government for its courageous decision to introduce free education in all public primary and secondary schools.

This landmark decision is, indeed, commendable as it will help, among other things, to keep away young girls from detrimental vices such as teenage pregnancy and marriage. It is in this regard that I would like to call upon all hon. Members of Parliament and other stakeholders to support the Government in its quest to keep all children, especially young girls, in school, away from harmful activities.

Madam Speaker, hon. Members should take advantage of the overwhelming levels of commitment shown by the New Dawn Government, through the able leadership of our President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, to collaborate and ensure that this vice is brought to an end by putting in place supporting legislation, including the presentation of the Child Code Bill, in Parliament.

Madam Speaker, on democracy and constitutionalism, we are aware that Zambia is trying to attain the principles of democracy and constitutionalism. The President, on several occasions, has reiterated the desire of his administration to create a level playing field where democracy can thrive. In this regard, I would like to applaud the Government for its commitment to commencing constitutional and electoral reforms.

Madam Speaker, I take note of the President’s desire to review the Public Order Act and the issue of costly by-elections, among others. The President’s commitment deserves commendation by all well-meaning Zambians.

Madam Speaker, the House is aware that the Public Order Act has been used over the years to suppress opposition political parties. President Hichilema has demonstrated that he is not scared to amend the Public Order Act, which will, in turn, enable all political players to freely compete on ideas.

Madam Speaker, further, on the issue of costly and disruptive by-elections, the President has, again, been very clear in his statements that he is not in support of holding these unnecessary by-elections. He is of the view that the resources spent in that regard can instead be channelled to important sectors of the nation, such as the provision of school bursaries and the acquisition of medicines in hospitals and clinics. I, therefore, support the President on his call to all hon. Members of Parliament to consider working together and ensuring that proper legislation is enacted to prevent by-elections. The President is calling on us to build consensus among ourselves and other stakeholders to ensure that we give the nation a Constitution that we shall all be proud of and, indeed, one that will stand the test of time, if I may borrow that commonly used adage in the constitution- making process.

Madam Speaker, on the subject of good governance and integrity, I agree with the President on the need to ensure that all those entrusted with public resources are responsible, accountable and transparent. I, therefore, would like to urge the President not to relent in his fight against corruption. Corruption is a serious cancer that takes away the needed resources that could otherwise be used in education, health and other social sectors for our people. I would like to implore the Government to pursue all corruption cases in a professional way without segregating based on political affiliation, ethnicity and, indeed, on one’s standing in society. To this effect, the New Dawn Government should be applauded for the establishment of the Financial and Economic Crimes Court which will help in the disposing of of financial crimes expeditiously.

Madam Speaker, not too long ago, we were talking about justice which is delayed. So, if Zambians want their money back as they have been saying, then, indeed, the Government must be commended for introducing this fast-track court to retrieve what has been taken away from them. So, I would like to call upon all those being investigated to use this opportunity to clear their names.

Madam Speaker, I would like to further urge those who were involved in corrupt practices to take advantage of President Hichilema’s olive branch to surrender to the State what they corruptly acquired to avoid prosecution and subsequent consequences. Indeed, this was an olive branch. As he read the speech, I thought he would urge the law enforcement agencies to quickly go for those who have committed crimes, but he called upon them to surrender themselves. I know he did that in the spirit of not wanting to be the one giving directives to the law enforcement agencies because they are supposed to act on their own, professionally.

Madam Speaker, patriotism and national unity was another subject that the President covered extensively in his speech. I would like to applaud him for his timely advice to all citizens to embrace the culture of hard work at personal, organisational and national levels. He talked about the culture of ‘tantameni’ and I can add the associated term of ‘tulyemo’ mostly used by our youths. Let us take advantage of the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development that has been created –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, is it possible for you to translate ‘tantameni’?

Mrs Chonya: Madam Speaker, ‘tantameni’ means queuing up to receive handouts instead of working for the money.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chonya: ‘Tulyemo,’ which is also ‘tidyemo,’ is where people just expect to get free money from politicians without working for it.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chonya: Madam Speaker, in conclusion, allow me to urge my fellow hon. Members to take the lead in the application of national values and principles as articulated by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, who, in his speech, emphasised the need to love one another. Indeed, we can still show each other love even in diversity.

Madam Speaker, lastly, in agreeing with the President, I would like to state here that as a Christian Nation, we should always anchor our actions on our Christian values and faith.

Madam Speaker, with these few words, I beg to move.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Nyambose: Now, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, firstly, I would like to thank you for according me this rare and important privilege to second the Motion moved by the hon. Member for Kafue, Madam Mirriam Chonya, on the speech of His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia on the Application of National Values and Principles.

Madam Speaker, I indicated that this is a rare privilege. Without debating myself, I thank God that I am here and that this country has a new Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyambose: Madam Speaker, speaking from my background, I have always detested wrongdoing and corruption.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr Nyambose: The hon. Minister of Health is here. I have worked with her. She is one of the Zambians who have worked with me in the unions.

Madam Speaker, what I was seeing happening in this country – it is only that God loves Zambia and has given us this President.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyambose: His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, on Friday, 11^th March, articulated many important issues, and I will mention some of them. I want to augment what the mover of the Motion indicated.

Madam Speaker, corruption became endemic in this country. It became a culture.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyambose: It became a norm and we started celebrating those who were killing the ordinary people of Chasefu.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyambose: The ordinary people of Zambia suffered. The previous Government said it was developing this country without leaving anyone behind, but if you go to Chasefu and many other parts of this country, you will find that people suffered because of corruption.

Madam Speaker, the President of this republic needs support from all of us well-meaning Zambians ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyambose: ... regardless of our political affiliation. We should support this President in order to change this country. God has helped us. God has answered us. We need a new beginning.

Madam Speaker, I encourage the New Dawn Government to sanitise this nation.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyambose: We need a new beginning. I want to belong to right things in this country. The fight against corruption should not leave out any one. I also want to encourage the President and the New Dawn Government that when they are doing the correct things, many people will say they are the doing wrongs. I want to personally encourage the New Dawn Government that it is doing what is correct for this country in the fight against corruption.

Madam Speaker, the President talked about ethical behaviour in this country. I have served in the Government as a commissioner and I have served in the unions. The moral decay in the way we do things in the public sector and in the Civil Service has disappointed many Zambians. We need to inculcate behavioural change and fear for public property. As I stand here, as a leader, I need to account for myself ethically. This is the role the New Dawn has taken. It should continue. Let us change. The President alone, without us, will not achieve.

Madam Speaker, I was very happy with his speech, hence, I am saying it is a rare privilege for me to speak to the nation.

Madam Speaker, council workers have suffered and civil servants are retiring without getting their pay because of the unethical behaviour that has been practised in this country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyambose: Madam Speaker, there is no way that cadrerism can become an occupation. People go to school and get employed, but cannot get that money that cadres were showing in bundles in this country. Some had so much money that they could even sleep on it when people were not getting paid. That should come to an end.

Madam Speaker, this country is blessed to have this Government. It is my hope, as an Independent Member of Parliament, that this Government does not fall into the trap that others fell into. Let us support our President and show them that we are doing and saying is correct.

Madam Speaker, in the past regime, there was no leader who could go against cadres because most of the leaders were thinking about being re-elected. However, we have a President who said that we need cadres, but not the type of cadres in the previous regime.

Madam Speaker, the President spoke about reforms in the procurement process. As an hon. Member of Parliament sitting in the council for one week with the procurement team, I discovered that 1kg of wire nails was costing K100,000. They could even tell you that this is the index from the Zambia Public Procurement Authority (ZPPA). When you go in the shops, that 1kg is K35. Where are we taking the country? I agree and support the President. The reforms in the procurement process should be supported by all of us. We must be real so that the resources of this country can go to the poor and vulnerable people. A lot has gone wrong. I support the President and urge the people of Zambia to rally behind President Hakainde Hichilema to change the fortunes of this country.

Madam Speaker, with these few remarks, I beg to second the Motion.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

We move on.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Inaudible

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chienge, please, join the audio. We cannot hear you.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, I thank you. I am sorry, I did not know that I had not unmuted myself.

Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving this great opportunity to the people of Chienge to talk about the progress that Zambia has made regarding the values and principles of this great nation.

Madam Speaker, I thank the President for coming to this House to inform the nation about the progress.

Madam Speaker, the President mentioned and emphasised that we are a Christian nation. He said it more than three times and that Zambia will remain a Christian nation. I hoped that the President would even propose to us as hon. Members of Parliament that we should start mentioning the name of Jesus Christ in Parliament and also quote the bible because we are a Christian nation.

Madam Speaker, I also expected him, as he spoke about unity and love, to remind our colleagues, especially those on your right hand side, who, whenever someone speaks, they call him/her ‘unreasonable’. That is against our principles and values. Every Zambian, according to Article 8 of the Zambian Constitution, has the right to express himself/herself and affiliate to any political gathering. It does not mean that only one political party’s views should be said and that if anyone says anything else, it becomes a problem. I do not think that is what the President talked about.

Madam Speaker, the President emphasised that we should unit. However, what is obtaining on the ground is totally different. I see so much oppression in this country. When you go on Face book, there is cyber bulling. It is like a political party sponsors young ones to insult politicians on Face book.

Interruptions

Rev. Katuta: ...I appreciate what the President ...

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members can we give her chance to debate. We have only this week and the next; so please, can you prepare yourselves. Do not debate while seated. Just prepare yourselves so that at an appropriate time, you can also debate.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, thank you for protecting me. I do not mind those who want to oppress this voice of Chienge. This is what I am talking about. There is nowhere we are going to take this country. Even in this House, there is no way we are going to agree with our hon. Colleagues on your right hand if they propose anything because they feel they should oppress others by bullying them by the way they say things. It is just wrong

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, what I want to say is that I appreciate what the President –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order hon. Member for Chienge! You have now started debating colleagues in the House. Can you, please, focus on the speech?

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, thank you for the guidance.

Madam Speaker, I especially want to talk about values. When you talk about the values and principles of this country, which are based on Christianity, we do not look down on anyone or intimidate them.

Madam Speaker, I want to thank the President on the emphasis he made on ending early child marriages. I also appeal to all Zambians that this is the time we should inaudible. I also appeal to this House to consider repealing the Penal Code which talks about the punishment for such offenders. We want to see that there is a stiffer punishment so that we can have strong family values where parents know that it is wrong to marry off a child who also wants, one day, to become an hon. Member of Parliament or a Deputy Speaker, like you, Madam.

Madam Speaker, let me talk about the issue that the President talked about; Gender Based Violence (GBV). We have seen that GBV is taking place and it is happening even among high profile people. I would like to see that we change the Penal Code and increase the punishment regardless of one’s status in society. We cannot have a nation where women are committing suicide because they are weaker vessels and there is no one to protect them.

Madam Speaker, I would also like to talk about the issue of people committing suicide that is being experienced in the country. I expected the President to strongly speak against this and also come out on how families can be helped to improve family values so that we can end this animal that has started manifesting in our land of people taking their lives pretending that it is due certain issues that they cannot handle.

Madam Speaker, when we have strong family values, we will have strong values as a nation. We can also see a reduction in what is happening such as people taking their lives.

Madam Speaker, the President mentioned GBV. GBV affects both the male and female genders. However, this thing of taking women for a ride as if women have no value is what I would like to see change in our country.

Madam Speaker, I hope that next year, when the President comes to inform the country on the progress made in the Application of National Values and Principles, he will talk about how many women have been appointed to strategic positions in our country. Once we see more women in strategic positions, it will encourage other women to participate in the 2026 General Elections so that we can grow the number of women in the House.

Madam Speaker, Zambia is a country that has always been peaceful. However, what we are seeing toady in our country is totally different. We talk about unity and love just on paper. We need to see to it that since we have voted in a new Government called the ‘New Dawn Government’, it should bring in new dawn love and restore that which Zambians believe they have lost.

Madam Speaker, it is not only about the money which has been stolen. We can have the money and everything, but if there is no love and unity in this country and the country keeps on being torn apart, we are not heading anywhere. This also starts with us politicians. How do we treat each other? How do we treat outsiders? We can build a better Zambia with a strong voice on the values because this is who we are in Zambia. Humanism and bumuntu is what we are. Our forefathers and founders of this nation founded this country on humanism.

Madam Speaker, those are the few words I wanted to add to the debate on the Motion on the Floor. However, I just want to say that can we strengthen the punishment in the Penal Code for the offence of marrying off children?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon Members, I urge you to prepare yourselves so that we can have more debate on the President’s Speech.

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1755 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 16^th March, 2022.

____________

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Tuesday, 15th March, 2022

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