Tuesday, 1^st March, 2022

 

The House met at 1430 hours

 

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

 

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ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM SPEAKER

 

DELEGATION FROM THE PARLIAMENT OF TANZANIA

 

Madam Speaker: Hon Members, I wish to acquaint the House with the presence, in the Speaker’s Gallery, of the following eight hon. Members of Parliament and four members of staff from the Parliament of Tanzania:

 

Hon. Naghenjwa Livingstone Kaboyoka, MP     -              Chairperson, Public Accounts Committee and Head of Delegation;

 

Hon. Grace Victor Tendega, MP-                              Chairperson, Local Authorities Accounts Committee;

 

Hon. Daniel Baran Sillo, MP  - Chairperson, Budget Committee;

 

Hon. Jerry William Silaa, MP - Chairperson, Public Investment

 

Hon. Japhet Ngailonga Hasunga, MP- Vice-Chairperson, Public Accounts

 

Hon. Selemani Jumanne Zedi, MP- Vice-Chairperson, Local Authorities Accounts Committee;

 

Hon. Omari Mohamed Kigua, MP - Vice-Chairperson, Budget

 

Hon. George Natany Malima, MP - Vice-Chairperson, Public Investment Committee;

 

Mr Edwin - Assistant Auditor General, National Audit Office;

 

Ms Evelyne Thomas Amsifu Bago -Information Officer, National Audit Office;

 

Mr Emmanuel Binagi Rhobi- Committee Clerk, Budget Committee; and

 

Ms Amina Salumu Namtema - Committee Clerk, Public Accounts Committee.

 

I wish, on behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, to receive our distinguished guests and warmly welcome them in our midst.

 

I thank you.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

ZAMBIA – MALAWI SOCIAL GAMES

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that the National Assembly of Zambia will be hosting the National Assembly of Malawi for social football and netball games on Saturday 12^th March, 2022, at the Olympic Youth Development Centre (OYDC). The Malawian delegation arrives in Zambia on Friday, 11^th March and departs on Sunday, 13^th March, 2022.

 

In this regard, hon. Members of Parliament wishing to take part in these games are urged to avail themselves for training before final teams are constituted. Training will take place in the afternoon on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays at the Zamsure Sports Complex.

 

I thank you.

 

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MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

 

MR CHITOTELA, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR PAMBASHE, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF INFRASTRUCTURE, HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT, ON HON. MINISTERS NOT OCCUPYING GOVERNMENT HOUSES

 

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Speaker, I rise to raise a matter of public importance pursuant to Standing Order 134, read together with Standing Order 135 on admissibility. The people of Zambia and I are concerned with the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development regarding the manner of Cabinet hon. Ministers after being appointed. The houses that were occupied by the previous Cabinet hon. Ministers have remained unoccupied for a period of ten months, costing the Treasury substantive amounts of money in terms of housing allowance. This has affected hon. Members of Parliament who are supposed to be accommodated at the Members Motel and put their lives in danger. Others are being accommodated in various localities, risking the lives of your hon. Members of Parliament.

 

Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence on whether the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development is in order to remain quiet when government houses in excess of twenty have remained unoccupied for a period of ten months now. Hon. Ministers are still occupying rooms at the Members Motel, disadvantaging your hon. Members of Parliament who are supposed to stay there. Hon. Ministers are drawing huge sums of the housing allowance from the Treasury and disadvantaging the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning from allocating that money to other pressing issues of economic importance. 

 

Madam Speaker, I invite you to look at Standing Order 135 on admissibility in reference to the operations of the Government and ministries. I particularly refer this point of public importance to you and the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development because tomorrow, we shall hear that an hon. Member of Parliament has been abducted. People have been placed in various lodges across Lusaka because the Members Motel is fully booked or occupied by hon. Ministers. Is the hon. Minister responsible for housing, infrastructure and urban development in order to remain quiet while government facilities and houses are being vandalised and remain unoccupied? Hon. Ministers have deliberately refused and chosen not to move into those houses. I seek your guidance, Madam Speaker.

 

MR MUNIR ZULU, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR LUMEZI, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND LOGISTICS, ON RECENT TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS

 

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving the good people of Lumezi an opportunity to rise on this important matter that is directed at the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics. In the last few days, the country has witnessed an unprecedented number of road accidents. As we are seated here, the remains of His Worship the Mayor of Mongu are being put to rest.

 

Madam Speaker, if we drive outside Parliament Buildings, we will find minibus drivers parking anywhere without regard for other road users. Most accidents are caused as a result of a vehicle parked with no tail lights behind and as someone tries to avoid smashing it from behind, he/she flips or overturns. Is the hon. Minister in order to seat here without addressing this challenge?

 

Madam Speaker, I seek your guidance.

 

MR MUNG’ANDU, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR CHAMA SOUTH, ON THE VICE-PRESIDENT, ON RECENT SUICIDE CASES IN THE COUNTRY

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, I would also like to raise a matter of public importance under Standing Order 134.

 

Madam Speaker, I am raising this matter on Her Honour the Vice-President. As a country, we have never experienced the level of suicide and mental anguish that our people are experiencing. Not so long ago, I think yesterday or before yesterday, one socialite, journalist and television personality threatened to take her own life, but we were told that interventions were done. Almost every day, we get reports of people committing suicide.

 

Madam Speaker, what is our Government doing to ensure that the people who intend to take their lives are helped? I believe most of the reasons have to do with either life and mental challenges or the lack of counseling services. What is our Government doing to ensure that this issue is addressed before more lives are lost? Tomorrow, we might hear that one hon. Member has committed suicide, which can be really costly to the nation.

 

REV. KATUTA, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR CHIENGE, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, ON RECENT ACCIDENTS IN THE COUNTRY

 

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity.

 

Madam Speaker, I rise on a matter of urgent public importance in line with Standing Order 134. We have had fatal accidents in our country whereby we lost two vibrant citizens, the producer of Mpali and the Public Relations Manager for the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA). We also heard of another fatal accident in Mkushi, where we lost His Worship the Mayor and the Managing Director for – I think it is western –

 

Madam Speaker, we have heard of so many accidents happening due to international trucks, especially from Tanzania, and many Zambians have lost their lives. By now, you would have been announcing my funeral.

 

Madam Speaker, I would like to find out why the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security and the Ministry of Transport and Logistics have remained quiet when Zambians are dying in this manner without reprimanding drivers from foreign countries. I am talking about the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security because, yesterday, the ZRA closed the road from I think about 10 km off the scanner in Kapiri Mposhi, leaving only one lane and the roads in Kapiri Mposhi are not that friendly. The edge is quite sharp and one cannot drive to the other side or the bush.

 

Madam Speaker, I need your serious guidance as to why our Government has remained quiet. In the meantime, we are losing Zambians due to the carelessness of Tanzanian truck drivers.

 

Madam Speaker: My ruling is as follows. On the aspect of accidents, as raised by the hon. Member for Chienge and the hon. Member for Chama South, that matter was raised some time last week and the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics is yet to deliver a ministerial statement on that matter. So, I am not sure whether the hon. Members who are raising this matter are raising it for purposes of emphasis or they were not around in the House when these matters were being raised. I urge hon. Members to pay attention to the proceedings of the House so that we do not repeat questions that are waiting for a ministerial statement before this honourable House.

 

Rev. Katuta interjected.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chienge, can we have some order, please!

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

 On the issue of suicide, again, the hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Welfare is yet to issue a ministerial statement as I directed last week. So, let us wait for that. There is no need to raise issues that have already been raised.

 

On the issue of government houses that have not been occupied that the hon. Member for Pambashe raised, in terms of admissibility, the criteria set out in Standing Order 135 is that all the criteria must be met. It is not just one criterion that has to be met. All the criteria have to be met in order for a point to be admitted as a matter of urgent public importance. So, the matter that the hon. Member for Pambashe has raised does not meet the criteria for admissibility as required under Standing Order 134 and 135 and is, therefore, not admitted. However, the hon. Member for Pambashe can put in a question which can be addressed by the respective hon. Minister by way of issuing a ministerial statement and later, that question can be asked. I think it is better to submit a question and then the matter can be addressed.

 

MR KAMPYONGO, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR SHIWANG’ANDU, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND INTERNATIONAL CO-OPERATION, ON THE FATE OF ZAMBIAN STUDENTS IN UKRAINE

 

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, my matter is directed at the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation.

 

Madam Speaker, the tension between the Republic of Russia and Ukraine has regrettably heightened. As we are learning from some cable or network news platforms, our students in Ukraine seem to be struggling. Others are in the middle of nowhere and others have managed to cross the border. The parents to those children have been crying to the Government for help. Is the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation in order to not come to update the nation, through this august House, on the fate of those children who are entrapped in the Republic of Ukraine?

 

I seek your guidance, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Again, that matter was raised last week by – I cannot remember which hon. Member.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, it was a question which was directed at Her Honour the Vice-President, but we would want the hon. Minister to come and address the nation, through this august House.

 

Madam Speaker: I am aware because I directed the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation to come and issue a statement before this honourable House. However, if you watch news, you might have noticed that the hon. Minister has been giving statements and press briefings, but he is still yet to come and render a ministerial statement on the matter in the course of this week. That was what was decided.

 

Hon. Members, let us be attentive when we are in the House so that we do not derail the proceedings of the House by asking questions that have already been asked.

 

Mr Kampyongo: With your indulgence, Madam Speaker, I was in this august House the whole of last week –

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, I did not call for …

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: … a discussion between you and the Presiding Officer. So, that is my observation and direction. Let us comply, please.

 

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

 

RECRUITMENT OF ADDITIONAL AGRICULTURAL STAFF IN MWINILUNGA DISTRICT

 

230. Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga) asked the Minister of Agriculture:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to recruit additional agricultural staff for the Department of Agriculture in Mwinilunga District; 
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented;
3. how many members of staff are earmarked for recruitment in 2022; and
4. what categories of staff will be recruited.

 

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Mtolo): Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to recruit additional agricultural staff to all parts of the country, including Mwinilunga District.

 

Madam Speaker, the plans, however, will be implemented once the Ministry of Finance and National Planning gives the Ministry of Agriculture treasury authority.

 

Madam Speaker, the number of staff and the category of staff earmarked for recruitment will depend on the advice by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, through the treasury authority.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the answers.

 

Madam Speaker, I asked that question because the services in that sector are suffering. In Mwinilunga, the ministry is operating at 50 per cent. Mwinilunga is very vast and the staff currently there is unable to reach certain areas. My advice is that, perhaps, we need to hasten collaboration –

 

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member! It is not time to give advice. Ask your supplementary question.

 

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, how soon will this be done?

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member. Maybe, just a point of correction. Yes, we are understaffed, but we have twenty-two members of staff out of the expected establishment of thirty-eight. However, I think for the benefit of all hon. Members in the House, it is important to note that it is recommended, for example, that one agricultural extension officer manages about 400 farmers, but in our case, on average, one agricultural extension officer is managing about 1,000. In extreme cases, like in Chipangali where I was last week, one agricultural extension officer is managing 1,800 farmers and that is definitely not appropriate. So, we will be pushing so that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning can allow us to employ.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, in response to the hon. Member for Mwinilunga’s question, the hon. Minister indicated that the number of staff and the category of staff earmarked for recruitment will depend on the advice by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. I would like to find out whether the ministry has done a personnel needs assessment to know in which areas they are needed because I think it is supposed to be the other way round where the ministry feeds into the Ministry of Finance and National Planning and the ministry only advises the Treasury. So, I would like to find out whether a personnel needs assessment has been done to find out where there are gaps?

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, yes, we have a staff compliment and we know exactly how many people should be employed for what position. The Ministry of Finance and National Planning does not guide us on whom to employ but on the number of people we can employ. That is the correction.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has alluded to the fact that Mwinilunga is a vast area and it is a farming area where we expect this country to draw its food basket from. The hon. Minister mentioned the ratio of one agricultural extension officer to 1,000 farmers, which is quite worrying. How much emphasis and strength is the hon. Minister directing to ensure that the ministry recruits more agricultural extension officers to meet the ratio of one agricultural extension officer to 400 farmers and also to ensure that there is mobility in terms of scooters, bicycles or any other form of mobility that can enable agricultural extension officers reach vast areas in Mwinilunga District?

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I will start with the last part of the question.

 

Madam Speaker, we have given a position of what we need in the ministry, but beyond that, we are having discussions with co-operating partners to assist us with equipment, including motor cycles. As regards the ratio, we are all aware that the Government has emphasised on the need to recruit people in the Ministry of Education and the Ministry of Health. We have no doubt that with the emphasis that the Government has on agriculture, I think in the next trench, the Ministry of Agriculture will be taken care of.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the responses.

 

Madam Speaker, clearly, the country is spending a lot of money on the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) and the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) at the expense of agricultural extension officers who enhance production in our areas. Is the hon. Minister in a position to tell us the number of people they plan to employ –

 

Hon. Member: Good afternoon, members. You are most welcome to the –

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, it is like our system has been overrun by a Committee somewhere.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mung’andu: Hello, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Do not worry, it is not you crying.

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: It is just a technical hitch but it has been attended to.

 

Hon. Member for Chama South, you may continue.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister in a position to tell us the plans the ministry has put in place in terms of recruiting staff, like the way the Government has done on the recruitment of teachers? We expect 30,000 teachers and 11,000 people in the health sector to be employed this year. How many agricultural extension officers will be employed so that we can send our children to agricultural schools in view of employment opportunities, especially in rural areas like Mwinilunga, where people need extension officers?

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, earlier when I was answering Hon. Fube’s question, I indicated that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning advises on the number of staff we can employ dependent on the availability of resources. So, I cannot say how many agriculture extension officers we will employ. I know how many we need, but I cannot say how many we will employ at a given time.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, we have heard that in ministries like the Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Education, people are volunteering to work. Are there such volunteers in the Ministry of Agriculture that can be sent to Mwinilunga?

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, it is a bright idea, which I think our ministry will look at.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, the people of Kamfinsa Constituency request that Question No. 231 be answered by the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kamfinsa, just state the question and do not state who is supposed to answer it. That is my job.

 

Laughter 

 

STALLED CONSTRUCTION OF PHASE II OF THE NKANA WATER SUPPLY AND SANITATION PROJECT

 

231. Mr Kang’ombe asked the Minister of Water Development and Sanitation:

 

1. why the construction of Phase II of the Nkana Water Supply and Sanitation Project in Kamfinsa Parliamentary Constituency has stalled;
2. when the project will resume; and
3. whether local contractors in the constituency will be considered in engaging the new contractor.

 

The Minister of Water Development and Sanitation (Mr Mposha): Madam Speaker, the construction of Phase II of the Nkana Water Supply and Sanitation Project in Kamfinsa Parliamentary Constituency has stalled due to the delayed release of funds.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation are making efforts to find a way forward for financing of the outstanding project works. The works are expected to resume once funds are made available.

 

Madam Speaker, local contractors are at liberty to participate in the project implementation by responding to invitations for bids, for execution of works, provision of services or supply of goods.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Supplementary questions. Hon. Member for Kamfinsa. 

 

Mr Mundubile: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for this opportunity. I raise the point of order pursuant to Standing Order 65 (b).

 

Last week, Madam Speaker, when I posed a question to Her Honour the Vice-President regarding the statement His Excellency the President had made that he has been let down by his Ministers and Permanent Secretaries (PSs), Her Honour the Vice-President challenged me to produce evidence to that effect.

 

Madam Speaker, what I have today is a newspaper dated 10^th February, 2022, and the headline reads, “HH feels let down – Says appointment of ministers and permanent secretaries in his New Dawn Government has so far not helped matters.”

 

Madam Speaker, this relates to my hon. Colleagues on the right and this concern was raised by the appointing authority, His Excellency the President, following the bad performance by my hon. Colleagues on the right. I believe this is very timely so that even as they conduct business in this House and outside, they continue to do so with diligence. I will now lay on the Table this newspaper for ease of reference.

 

Mr Mundubile laid the paper on the Table.

 

Madam Speaker: In view of the fact that the paper has just been laid on the Table, there will be a need to look at it and also look at what the records say in the Hansard in terms of the proceedings. Then, I will render my ruling at a later date. 

 

Hon. Member for Kamfinsa, please, proceed.

 

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, the people of Kamfinsa Constituency have taken note of the answers that have been provided. The answers are not satisfactory because the hon. Minister has not provided the timelines. I, therefore, would like to find out from the hon. Minister when funding will be made available considering that this project had started and funding was set aside for this specific purpose? This project did not require new funding because the funding was already allocated. So, when will this funding which was allocated be released to enable our people have access to water, considering that one of the biggest challenges the people of Kamfinsa Constituency are facing at the moment is the lack of access to water.

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, in my response to Question (b), I indicated that the project will resume as and when funds are mobilised. I am not able to give a specific timeline as this is dependent on the mobilisation of resources. However, I agree that, yes, the project did commence and it was executed up to 44 per cent. So, we still have a long way to go.

 

Madam Speaker, just for clarity, the value of this project is US$199,058,000. So, as and when we receive funding, the project will resume.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, human beings can live without clothes and sometimes can stay longer without food, but certainly not without water. We have conversed over this matter with the hon. Minister and the challenge of water in Nkana is very real. As we speak, the people of Kitwe are very interested to note the outcome of this conversation because for a very long time, we, the elected representatives of those people, have kept on assuring them that this challenge of water will soon be addressed. Is it not possible that the hon. Minister can give a leeway to Nkana Water Supply and Sanitation Company to go out and source for funding so that it can address this problem?  Perhaps, people may underestimate the extent of this challenge. With the hon. Minister and the Minister of Finance and National Planning’s authority, Nkana Water Supply and Sanitation Company, as an entity, can go out and source for funding. Is it not possible to go that route?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I totally agree with my brother, the hon. Member for Nkana and former Kitwe District Commissioner (DC), on the fact that ...

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mposha: ... human beings can live for a long time without clothes and food, but certainly, not without water. Indeed, water is life, and the Government is equally concerned that this project stalled. This project did not stall after the August 2021 Elections, but it stalled way back before the election which ushered in the New Dawn Government.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mposha: However, the Government is doing everything possible to ensure that all the projects which stalled as a result of the delayed release of funds by the then Government, which equally knew that human beings cannot live for a long time without water, are done. We totally agree with it that, indeed, human beings cannot live for a long time without water. This is why I said that we are working round the clock together with the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to ensure that we find funds and finance all the projects that stalled, including the one under discussion. As to whether we should permit the utility company to go out there and look for this money, I think we have not reached that stage.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, I am a bit worried and I think that maybe that is why the President is getting frustrated.

 

Laughter

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

 

 The Standing Orders are very particular. Let us not bring in the name of the President in our debates and questions.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I do not have to lecture the hon. Minister about perpetual succession. When you are taking up responsibility, you take up responsibility including all the challenges that you inherit. That is what fixing the challenges is all about.

 

Madam Speaker, my question is a rider to the hon. Member for Nkana’s question, who, when he was the District Commissioner, ably lobbied for this project for the lovely people of Kitwe who need water.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government has limited sources of funds and we appropriate funds in this august House. Other than that, the Government contracts loans through borrowing. Can the hon. Minister confirm whether this project has been funded in this year’s Budget? The hon. Minister said that the project will be done when money is sourced, sourced from where? The Government has limited sources of funds. Can the hon. Minister be categorical in response to the question from the hon. Member for Kamfinsa?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, in the 2022 Budget, money has been allocated to cater for a number of projects which stalled under this sector. We are waiting for the funds to be released so that we can direct some of them towards Phase II of the Nkana Water Supply and Sanitation Project and many other projects.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr J. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, I am aware that the hon. Minister has belaboured the issue of funding. However, I would like to find out whether this project is fully funded by the Zambian Government, or is there a component of donor funding in the same project? If so, could the hon. Minister say where the hurdle is. Is it the Zambian Government that is failing to do its part, or is it the donors who are not releasing the monies and why?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Roan for always raising sound and good questions.

 

Madam Speaker, this project is being financed by the Government of the Republic of Zambia through a loan from the Industrial and Commercial Bank of China.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika Central): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the aptly put response and I like the way he is answering questions.

 

Madam Speaker, last year, on the Floor of the House, the Government told the hon. Members that it could not do anything on the various projects that had stalled because it was not its Budget. Hon. Members approved the Budget which came into effect on 1^st January, 2022. Why is the hon. Minister still telling us about the lack of funds?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question.

 

Madam Speaker, it is one thing to approve the Budget and it is another to mobilise resources and allocate them towards the projects. So, at this stage, the Government is mobilising resources and will begin releasing these funds towards projects, most of which stalled under the Government which was run by the people now on the left.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kamfinsa, do you have any question?

 

Mr Kang’ombe: Yes, I do, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker, I have taken note of the responses that have been provided by the hon. Minister and he has indicated that this project will be done when funds are made available. Are there steps that will be taken to provide a short-term solution to our people who are currently facing the challenge of the lack of water in Kamfinsa Constituency, and I believe this is affecting all the other parts of the city of Kitwe, as we wait for the Government to mobilise the funds that the hon. Minister referred to? I think it is important that this question is answered so that the people who are following the proceedings of this sitting are satisfied that a solution will be found even as we wait for the resources to be mobilised.

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kamfinsa for that follow-up question and good question.

 

Madam Speaker, the scope of this project targeted a population of about 836,436 residents of Kitwe. Like I said, this project has been executed up to 44 per cent. So, already through this project, the people in Kitwe are being served. However, at this stage, we need to mobilise funds so that we can complete the remaining 66 per cent. As to whether we shall put in place measures to attend to the remaining population which has not yet been serviced by the fact that this project has stalled, I cannot state if we will do that because we are pushing to finish it off. Before this project started, the population I alluded to suffered the consequences of the fact that our network was losing a lot of water through leakages, most of which have been attended to. So, once resources are found and mobilised, we will finish this project. I think the whole population of Kitwe, or most of it, will be attended to. For now, we have not reached a stage where we should put in place emergency measures to cater for the remaining population.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has told this august House that this project is being funded using a loan. Honestly, if it is being funded using a loan, the country is incurring interest on that particular loan. The people of Lumezi want to know where the money that the hon. Minister said is a loan went because you cannot mobilise something that you have already borrowed?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I thank my brother, the hon. Member for Lumezi.

 

Madam Speaker, like I said, the project was financed through a loan. Unfortunately, after some problems of default, which are wide spread in this sector and have also affected a number of projects, the bank could not continue releasing the rest of the money, and that affected the project. However, I want to also say that most Interim Payment Certificates (IPCs) that had been delayed to be paid have since been cleared. So, this money was not released in totality and the bank did not continue releasing the money and that is what led eventually to the prolonged stalling of this project.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, I just want to pass on a message to the hon. Minister, on behalf of the people of Kankoyo, that the water project which was approved to be done during the Patriotic Front (PF) regime but the European Union (EU) did not do, has been –

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Kankoyo, it is not time to pass on messages. If you have a message, you can liaise with the hon. Minister during break.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mabeta: Madam Speaker, I was yet to ask a question.

 

Madam Speaker: You can ask your question, if you want to ask a question. 

 

Mr Mabeta: Madam Speaker, the project in Kankoyo has been started and the contractor is on site. Now, on behalf of the people of Kamfinsa, I ask the hon. Minister to help them secure funds so that they can also be helped.

 

Madam Speaker: I wonder what the people of Kankoyo are doing in Kamfinsa.

 

Laughter

 

UPGRADING OF SIOMA RURAL HEALTH CENTRE

 

232.  Mr Mulaliki (Senanga Central) (on behalf of Mr Mandandi (Sioma)) asked the Minister of Health:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to upgrade Sioma Rural Health Centre in Sioma District to a mini hospital;
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
3. if there are no such plans, why.

 

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to upgrade Sioma Rural Health Centre in Sioma District to a mini hospital apart from ensuring that it is assisted to ensure that it has enough staff and commodities so that the people in Sioma can get a quality health service.

 

Madam Speaker, as stated above, therefore, question (b) falls off.

 

Madam Speaker, currently, there are no immediate plans to upgrade Sioma Rural Health Centre because the population in Sioma is 4,495, and these statistics were given to us by the Central Statistical Office (CSO). Therefore, the health centre refers most of the patients to either Senanga or Sesheke district hospitals. However, the House may wish to note that since Sioma is a newly created district, we have plans to budget for a district hospital which will be included in the year 2023 under the Infrastructure Operational Plan.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mulaliki: Madam Speaker, considering that this year, there is no allocation for a mini hospital in Sioma, one thing that is cardinal is the lack of a mortuary there. Can the Government not construct a mortuary there?

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that important follow-up question. I take note and we will see what can be done regarding the mortuary, considering that the distance is so far. What this means, therefore, is that the people of Sioma currently have no choice but to bury their loved ones almost immediately when they die. So, we will take that into account and see how best we can deal with that new challenge that has been brought up.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mrs Chonya (Kafue): Madam Speaker, I am really surprised that there is no mini hospital in Sioma because I remember clearly that the former Member for Sioma, Hon. Mbololwa, actually talked about the commencement of the construction of that hospital in her constituency, and I think there was a ground-breaking ceremony. However, the hon. Minister said that the population in Sioma is 4,000. What population should an area have in order to warrant a hospital? From her response, it is as though in between the lines, she is saying that the number is not sufficient to attract the construction of a hospital.

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kafue for that follow-up question.

 

Madam Speaker, this question is very important. Though it is important, I am truly unable to give a correct answer off the cuff because it is a question of policy. The question being asked is about numbers. What are the numbers that attract a hospital? In my answer, I stated that next year, though the population is low in Sioma, we will not be looking at constructing a small mini hospital but a district hospital. My justification was simply that this place was declared a district and normally all districts are supposed to have a district hospital. So, as regards the question as to what population size deserves a clinic, a rural health clinic or a health post, I will just come back to the House with a statement that will help hon. Members to understand.  

 

Madam Speaker, you have noted that there are similar questions being asked on the Floor of this House on whether we will construct mini hospitals in certain areas. A few days ago, again, there was a question on the construction of a mini hospital in Katuba. The point that the hon. Member of Parliament has raised that there was a ground-breaking ceremony to show that a mini hospital will be constructed is correct. I have seen in the reports in the ministry that, yes, even in Katuba, there was a ground-breaking ceremony for a clinic. Unfortunately, what was happening was political. In the case of Katuba, after the Patriotic Front (PF) lost elections, it took that mini hospital to another place. So, this is the kind of governance that this country was exposed to under the PF Government, ...

 

Hon. Government Members: Shame!

 

Mrs Masebo: ... and it is truly a shame.

 

Madam Speaker, never should any administration behave in that way because if we were to behave that way, some of the hospitals or clinics that were said were going to be constructed which have not yet been constructed in a number of constituencies for these hon. Members of Parliament on your right, – it would be sad if we did the same to them. However, the President of this Administration, Hakainde Hichilema, wants to unite this country, and because of the fact that we have a President who wants to unite this country, hon. Members of this House and the country at large must see things the way they are and must not push us far.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Chitotela: She cannot say that.

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Minister, withdraw the word ‘push’.

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I sincerely withdraw that term and replace it with something that will be acceptable and very important, and I wanted to say that it is not good governance. My hon. Colleagues on the left must appreciate that this Administration has the mandate to make new policy decisions which could also include what they were doing, which was not right. However, we will not do that.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chitotela: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, Standing Order No. 65 is very instructive on hon. Ministers. It says that as they respond, they must give correct answers.

 

Madam Speaker, I think the hon. Minister for Western Province, and the hon. Member of Parliament for Senanga, if he is here, can attest that there is a mini hospital in Sioma that was commissioned by the former Vice-President. I have been there; I have even accessed medicine.

 

Madam Speaker, is the current hon. Minister of Health in order to mislead the nation and this House that there is no mini hospital in Sioma?

 

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

 

Madam Speaker: From where I am sitting, it is very difficult to know whether there is a mini hospital or just a health centre in Sioma. However, the question that is being considered before this honourable House is asking whether the Government has any plans to upgrade Sioma Rural Health Centre in Sioma District to a mini hospital. So, maybe, the question is what is misleading because if there was indeed a mini hospital, there would have been no need to upgrade a rural health centre.  

 

I think the question is either misleading or there is no mini hospital in existence. We just have to speculate, and unfortunately, the hon. Member for Sioma who asked that question is not around to confirm the correct position. The hon. Minister has stated that there are no plans to upgrade Sioma Rural Health Centre to a mini hospital but rather a district hospital will be constructed.  So, I cannot make a ruling on a speculation; I do not know what the correct position is.

 

Mr Simushi (Sikongo): Madam Speaker, greetings from the people of Sikongo. I just came from there this morning.

 

Madam Speaker, the concept of a mini hospital, as far as I am concerned, is a new phenomenon in this country. What are the major differences between a mini hospital and a district hospital?

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that follow-up question.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Kafue asked the same question, basically, except she used numbers. What constitutes a mini hospital? What is it that attracts the Government to build a district hospital or a mini hospital? The question that has been asked now is the same as the earlier one. That is why I said I will come and issue a ministerial statement to articulate the various forms of health delivery facilities in the country. It is suffice for me to say that semantics were used. One day, it is referred to as a mini hospital, and the next day as a level I district hospital or district hospital.

 

Madam Speaker, from a policy point of view, there is some confusion that requires to be harmonised. The ministry is working on correct definitions of all these issues because the fact of the matter is that when one really analyses what happened in the health sector as regards the various forms of health delivery facilities, one sees that there is a lot of conflict. However, the New Dawn Government is a methodical Government and I will not commit myself to answer that question right now. I will come and issue a ministerial statement to articulate what we shall be calling rural hospital, urban hospital, district hospital, tertiary hospital, and so on and so forth.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker, I must attest that –

 

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Proceed hon. Member for Bwana Mkubwa.

 

Mr Mwambazi: Madam Speaker, I can attest that in Bwana Mkubwa Constituency, we have had three ground-breaking ceremonies and there are no mini hospitals. So, that is what happened.

 

Madam Speaker, let me now ask my question. Does the Ministry of Health have statistics on how many health centres in the country need to be upgraded to mini hospitals because that situation is not only in Sioma but in many constituencies? When does it intend to start implementing that?

 

Madam Speaker: The hon. Minister has indicated that she will come back to the house to render a ministerial statement. So, she will be able to address those issues in that ministerial statement.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order under Standing Order No. 65, which talks about how hon. Ministers should be answering questions. The people of Chama South are very worried. Since internet connectivity has been a challenge, and if someone raised this point of order, I seek your lenience. Hon. Ministers always say that those who are now on the left neglected constituencies for those on the right now. However, there is no mini hospital in Chama South. Most things actually found in constituencies in the Southern Province and the Western Province are not there in Chama.

 

Madam Speaker, right now, the entire Senior Chief Kambombo’s area is flooded. The people there cannot go anywhere because we do not have roads. So, we really get worried when hon. Ministers say that because they will end up abandoning innocent people in Chama South or the entire Chama and other constituencies if they have that perception. Can they give us hope that they are going to look after all of us?

 

Madam Speaker, if someone has raised that point of order, like I said, I apologise because I had internet connectivity challenges. However, we get concerned when hon. Ministers say those on the left now paid attention to their constituencies when we have constituencies which are worse off than any other constituencies for those who are seated on the right now.

 

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious guidance on this matter because we are working on developing this country without leaving any one behind. I believe President Hakainde Hichilema has preached that he is not going to leave any Zambian behind, but what the hon. Ministers are preaching is total division. We do not have mini hospitals. We do not have many of those things that those who are on the right now are claiming. So, we do not know where the former Government was taking those developments which we have not seen, those of us who were with them in the Backbench. I seek your serious ruling because we are getting concerned.

 

Madam Speaker: I believe you have sufficiently debated your point of order. We can make progress.

 

Mr Fube: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: There are too many points of order. What is the point of order?

 

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, before I even raise my point of order permitted by the privileges of the Parliamentary Act, then I have such – anyway, let me continue.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chilubi, just raise your point of order, if you have any. Do not start justifying why you have to raise a point of order. We know it is your right, but even a right should be exercised within the regulations, procedures and rules that are provided. You may proceed.

 

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, having been guided, I raise a point of order in line with Standing Order 207 (2). You can also peruse through Section 19 of the Parliamentary Act., but I want to address sub-sections (a) and (d). There is this behavior in this Parliament that has almost become a tradition –

 

Madam Speaker: Before you proceed, whom are you raising the point of order on?

 

Mr Fube: It is on what the hon. Minister of Health said.

 

Madam Speaker: Proceed. Let us hear what the point of order is.

 

Mr Fube: The point of order is on the molestation and infringement of speech on the people on the left. Hon. Ministers have made it a tradition to refer to things like your Government did not do this and so on and so forth, not realising that they are actually holding the steering wheel. If you peruse through Section 19 of the Parliamentary Act and Standing Order 207 (2), sub-section (a) and (d), you will find that – I seek your ruling on what is happening because it is now a tradition and it has gone unabated. It is now just part of Parliament and I think this is now bringing the House into contempt because we will be forced to be answering and asking, which will disturb your presiding of matters before this Parliament.

 

I submit, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: I did not even get the point of order.

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: Anyway, there was no point of order. Let me also guide that the hon. Member for Chama South –

 

Mr Fube remained standing.

 

Madam Speaker: You can resume your seat.

 

Mr Fube resumed his seat.

 

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member for Chama South raised a similar point of order and he went at length to debate the same. So, that point of order was not allowed. In a like manner, your point of order is also not allowed. I do not think there is any molestation that is happening here. Hon. Member, if you have an opinion, you can respond when the time for debate comes, but do not feel hindered to ask questions. That is the opinion of the people on the right and I believe the people on the left also have their opinions. So, it is a manner of speech. Sometimes, we have to listen to both sides, but the idea is not to molest. A good temper and moderation is the best way to conduct ourselves in the House.

 

Mr Fube interjected.

 

Madam Speaker: Are you asking me or are you asking yourself?

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: Let us make progress.

 

RESETTLEMENT OF RESIDENTS OF CHICHELE FOREST

 

233.  Mr Mwambazi asked the Vice-President:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to resettle the residents of Chichele area in Ndola District who were evicted from Golden Lay Farm following a court order; and
2. if so, when the residents will be resettled.

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, the Government is aware that farmers who were eligible for resettlement in the said area had already been resettled on 200 ha of land noting that they had the necessary documents to allow for the due process of resettling the concerned citizens. In the matter at hand, these residents who the hon. Member referred to, the squatters, did not have the necessary legal documents to prove that the said land belonged to them, and as such, they were removed by a court order.

 

Madam Speaker, while the Government appreciates the intervention by the hon. Member of Parliament, it must be noted that the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government was voted on the ticket of maintaining law and order countrywide. Therefore, the need to resettle the affected members does not arise. However, if the affected citizens require the Government’s intervention, through the Department of Resettlement, they may like to apply for resettlement and they will be considered. In this regard, let me take this opportunity to encourage all Zambians to follow the law and applicable procedures, especially in matters of land acquisition and disposal.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mwambazi: Madam Speaker, I thank Her Honour the Vice-President for answering that question. However, I just want to bring it to her attention that these settlers settled in that place for a long time even before the farmers went to that place. Probably, we will need the Government’s intervention because the land in question was basically resold to Golden Lay Farm by another gentleman and that is when these people were evicted, and not that they went to settle there illegally. So, we really need the Government’s intervention so these people can be resettled.

 

Madam Speaker: Your Honour the Vice-President, do you have any comment?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Bwana Mkubwa.

 

Madam Speaker, I think there is a little mix up. The 150 settlers settled in the said area legally and that is why they had documents. Those people were in that area from the 1980s and they were given pieces of land for resettlement after they were evicted. However, afterwards, other people started settling around the place and they had neither the legal right nor documentation to do so. These people are also claiming to be the legal owners of the land and the number is blowing out of proportion. In fact, they were not settlers – remember that I am also partly a resident of Ndola – but they were cultivating in the Chichele Forest and, therefore, want to claim that land. Chichele Forest allowed them to cultivate there to keep the place and it worked well for it because the area under the trees was kept clean. However, the number of those claiming the land in question is over 1,000 and 600 people have even gone to court, and I am sure the hon. Member is aware. They are claiming to be the legal owners of the land when in fact not.

 

Madam Speaker, this matter is in court, and it remains as it is. I learnt through my office that a decision was made to divide part of Chichele Forest and to give it to the people. So, instead of the people claiming to be settlers or farmers applying for resettlement, they are pretending that they have been in the area all this time, and this is the current situation. So, many people are claiming to be settlers. If it was so, I think Chichele would be a city.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Bwana Mkubwa, do you have another question?

 

Mr Mwambazi: Madam Speaker, I do not have a question, but I will engage the Office of the Vice-President to see how we can resolve the issue.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, in her response, Her Honour the Vice-President indicated that the affected citizens should get legal documents. Since she has lived in that area before and as a mother of the nation, most of the people who were evicted, with due respect, are not educated. So, my question is: How can the Government help these people who think by virtue of having lived in the said area own the land? What will the Government do for those people who do not even understand the issue of title deeds?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chienge for the concern, which is a true concern, except this cannot be a compelling reason to the Government, and that is why I said that the affected people have been given the option to apply for resettlement.

 

 Madam Speaker, I believe ignorance of the law is no defence. The law still stands and we cannot say they did not know. Like I said, those people can ask to be taken anywhere where there are resettlement schemes and I think that can be done. The Government has an open-door policy. However, if they pretend that they own the land when in fact not, that will not help us. There are plots that have been earmarked for resettlement, and it is just that all those people want to be given plots but they will not all go there. The issue is, where do people want to live? Zambia is big and we should all be ready to settle where there is a piece of land. There are ninety-three resettlement schemes countrywide. When people want to move, we can assist to see to it that they settle in the right places legally, and not illegally.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, indeed, Zambia is really big. We will invite Her Honour the Vice-President to Chama so that she can settle around the national park, so that we struggle together with the elephants.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, the Zambian population is growing. Ndola is growing and Kitwe has grown, just as Lusaka has equally grown and there is pressure on the land. Chichele Forest belongs to the Zambia Forestry and Forest Industries Corporation Limited (ZAFFICO), and I know that the ZAFFICO was listed on the Lusaka Stock Exchange. Is the Government in a position to degazette part of Chichele Forest for planning purposes, so that Zambians can settle there and set up high cost and medium cost residential places as well as commercial places and Chichele Plantation can be moved to areas like Kaputa? I know my good friend, Engineer Chief Kaputa, will be more than willing to have a plantation in the area. If anything, the ZAFFICO already started doing that and it has established one forest in Nakonde. If you go to Luapula where –

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chama South, you are expanding Question No. 233. It is about the resettlement of residents and not on degazetting Chichele Forest. If you have any interest in Chichele Forest –

 

Mr Mung’andu: Yes, I am –

 

Madam Speaker: I have not finished. If you have any interest in Chichele Forest, you can approach Her Honour the Vice-President quietly and you can ask her whether it will be degazetted. You are using a wrong forum hon. Member.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I have no interest in Chichele Forest. I just want to find out if it is possible to degazette Chichele Forest so that those people who have nowhere to settle can be resettled.

 

Madam Speaker: It is not possible, and I have already guided. It is not possible to ask that question right now. You can ask the question whether it is possible to degazette the forest at a later time but it is not possible to ask it now. It is not within the context of the question that is being asked and discussed on the Floor of the House.

 

Mr J. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, on Friday, during The Vice-President’s Question Time, Her Honour the Vice-President defined the term disaster. In her definition, she also attributed to some disasters that are self-made, and I believe this is a classical one where people settle on land they know does not belong to them.

 

Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from Her Honour the Vice-President as to whether it is possible for commercial farmers, entities and individuals who own bigger chunks of land, that have been left undeveloped for a long time, bearing in mind the land lease –  I believe that when land is left undeveloped for a long period of time, this attracts people to go and settle on that land, and at the end of the day, the owner comes to claim it. Will the New Dawn Government put in place a deliberate policy to ensure that whoever owns land does not leave that land open for vultures for a certain period of time?

 

Madam Speaker: Again, that question is very important, but it is out of the context of the question that is being answered by Her Honour the Vice-President. We do not want to take Her Honour the Vice-President by surprise by asking questions which are not related to the main question. If you feel strongly about that question, I suggest you ask a separate question and Her Honour the Vice-President will be able to answer it.

 

Mr Chisanga (Lukashya): Madam Speaker, I am asking this question out of concern because the people who used to live in Chichele Forest have literally now become destitute after being evicted, and I know some of them lived there for more than forty years. My question is: Will the Government be proactive and carry out a survey to establish how many people have been thrown on the streets in order for them to be resettled elsewhere?

 

Madam Speaker: That question was somehow answered by Her Honour the Vice-President, but maybe the hon. Member was not around or he was not paying attention.

 

Mr Chisanga: Madam Speaker, it was not answered.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Lukashya.

 

Madam Speaker, I agree that the answer was given, but let me repeat the answer. I said that many people would just cultivate in the said place but would not reside there. So, generally, when you look at this situation – 150 people have been resettled on smaller pieces of land or 200 ha of land, but some of them have also applied for resettlement. All they want is to benefit from this portion of land in Chichele. So, I believe some of those who have applied will be given some land, but some people think that there are people who were thrown out who are heaped somewhere, and that is not the case. I said that they are now over 1,000 people, though I have forgotten the actual figure, who are claiming for the land and 600 people have even gone to court. I will have to find out if they have nowhere to go because what I know is that these people are from Chifubu and Pamodzi; they have where to live. They are looking for land, but if there is a need to do a little research, I am willing to do that. However, for now, it is not like there are people who been thrown out and have no shelter and they are a disaster.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

IMPLEMENTATION OF CHILD MARRIAGE PROGRAMMES IN CHITAMBO DISTRICT

 

234.  Mr Mutale (Chitambo) asked the Minister of Community Development and Social Services when the Government will start implementing the fight against child marriage programmes in Chitambo District.

 

 The Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Ms Mwamba): Madam Speaker, from a legislative point of view, children being married off is a social and human rights concern and violation. According to the Juveniles Act, Sections 9, 47 and 49, no child should be exposed to moral and physical danger, or be seduced and have unlawful carnal knowledge. Children in early marriages are certainly exposed to moral and physical danger, and unlawful carnal knowledge. My ministry under the Act is mandated to protect and safeguard the well-being of children against being exposed to the risks of moral and physical danger.

 

Madam Speaker, I wish to implore all juvenile justice inspectors countrywide that under the New Dawn Government or Administration, they are expected to evoke their powers and curb the scourge. Section 10 of the Juveniles Act provides for powers for juvenile justice inspectors under my ministry, including the remedies they can seek in court under the same Act.

 

Madam Speaker, my ministry is implementing several activities to address child marriage in Chitambo District, through the Department of Social Welfare. These are done during routine programmes and rendered to families and children in an effort to provide a safe and stable environment for children to grow in. These include:

 

1. co-ordination of the retrieval of children who find themselves in these marriages;
2. awareness and sensitisation in communities; and
3. an integrated community level care management approach as an effective and efficient way of addressing children and families who are involved in early marriages.

 

Madam Speaker, to further enhance the response of child marriage, Chitambo District has begun the process of instituting a combined effort committee comprising of various stakeholders from government institutions and organisations such as the Ministry of Health, the Ministry of Education, the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security, Non-Governmental Organisations (NGOs) and Civil Society Organisations (CSOs), among others. This is in an effort to put technical and financial resources together, to enhance the protection of children.

 

Madam Speaker, there are, however, challenges in the fight against child marriages in the district such as inadequate staffing as well as the lack of harmonisation between statutory law and customary law. This has perpetuated elements of customary law that are discriminatory against girls and us women in communities.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, now that the hon. Minister has noted that there is inadequate staffing in Chitambo and the interest of that question is that early marriages are now becoming more like a normal situation, especially in areas near the Luapula River, what is the Government going to do about this inadequate staffing so that we manage to curb this vice?

 

Ms Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chitambo for that follow-up question.

 

 Madam Speaker, last year, we engaged the University of Zambia (UNZA) and Mulungushi University to train juvenile justice inspectors, and in October last year, 200 juvenile justice inspectors were trained. We also approached the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) and in fact, we had a meeting yesterday. It has agreed to train 400 more juvenile justice inspectors to help us curb early marriages.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr E. Tembo (Feira): Madam Speaker, indeed, the issue of child marriages is very rampant not only in Chitambo but across the nation, and we are concerned. Are there any plans to bring a Bill to Parliament to address the gap with regard to issues of customary law, which allows any child to be married as long as the parents consent? Are there any plans to address that lacuna and, indeed, control the age at which a child can be married, notwithstanding the consent of the parents?

 

Ms Mwamba: Madam Speaker, actually, we are going to introduce the Child Code Bill in Parliament, hopefully in this meeting, to deal with early marriages. It will give us the legal framework to stand on and deal with issues pertaining to this vice.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister noted in her answer that harmonising the law is another challenge that the Government is facing. In which area of this harmonisation is the Government having a challenge with and what shall be done to resolve this matter?

 

Ms Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. Mutale for that follow-up question.

Madam Speaker, early marriages, sorry to say, are very rampant in the Eastern Province, where when a child comes of age, its parents think that is the marriage age and they marry off very young girls. So, with the introduction of the Child Code Bill, we will have powers to prosecute the offenders. Apart from that, it will also provide for other platforms that we can use to end child marriages.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, statistics at the ministry indicate that two districts, Chama and Kalabo, are leading in child marriages in this country. Now that the hon. Member for Chitambo has indicated that there is this problem in Chitambo, are there specific programmes that the ministry is implementing in schools to encourage girls who were married off and have been taken back to school? If so, what are those programmes and when does the Government intend to make them national programmes, particularly for the benefit of the people of Chitambo, including the two districts –

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chama South, just ask one specific question then it will be answered.

 

Ms Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that follow-up question.

 

Madam Speaker, after we conducted a research to find out why young girls were being forced into marriages, one of the reasons was the excuse of school fees. Some parents said they opted to marry off their children because they could not afford to send them to school.

 

Madam Speaker, coming to the hon. Member’s question, with the policy of free education, we hope to see a reduction in the number of children being married off.  Through the Girls Education and Women's Empowerment and Livelihood (GEWEL) Project in my ministry, a programme of keeping girls in school, we sensitise young girls on the dangers of early sex and early pregnancies.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker gave the floor to Dr Kalila.

 

Madam Speaker: If he is not available, we will come back to him.

 

Mr Ngowani (Mpongwe): Madam Speaker, how many Non-Governmental Organisations (NGOs) have shown interest to help the Government in implementing the fight against child marriages in Chitambo District?

 

Ms Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that follow-up question.

 

Madam Speaker, I do not know the number, but I can confirm that quite a number of NGOs in Chitambo as well as CSOs are assisting the Government to combat this vice. I also want to mention that, currently, two social welfare assistants as well as two juvenile justice inspectors in Chitambo are also implementing the fight against early marriages in Chitambo.

 

Madam Speaker, I want to take this opportunity to say that we introduced the Social Workers Association of Zambia Bill in Parliament. As you are aware, social work is the oldest profession in the world and that was lacking in our country. We did not have enough social workers to help in the fight against early marriages. So, with the introduction of that Bill in Parliament, we hope that it will cushion this vice, including the problems we have with juveniles in our society.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that there is a conflict between customary law and statutory law and to some extent, I think that statement is true, especially that Cap. 53 of the Juveniles Act, which the hon. Minister quoted, is also in conflict with the Penal Code. However, Cap. 50 of the Marriage Act is not so much in conflict with what she talked about traditionally.

 

Madam Speaker, under the Penal Code, what we are talking about is a crime and it is called defilement. The magistrates court and other courts have not helped us, yet a child is deflowered. In the Penal Code, the sentence for that is not less than fifteen years imprisonment, and as a country, we seen to be handling this with kid gloves. When does the Government intend to make child marriage a crime, because it is a crime?

 

Madam Speaker: I do not know if the hon. Member has answered his question.

 

Laughter

 

Ms Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chilubi for that question.

 

 Madam Speaker, I am already getting excited because it seems we are all eager to receive the Child Code Bill. When this Parliament makes that law, then, we will move in and stop this vice. I also want to mention that last year in November, we launched a juvenile’s court, where all these issues are being handled.

  Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Speaker, indeed, child marriage is a sad development to any parent.  Since the ministry rescues the teenagers who were forced to get married, what tangible measures does it have in place other than counselling to ensure that they do not find their way back to those bad marriages or improper or illegal marriages?

 

Ms Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Matero for that follow-up question.

 

Madam Speaker, when a child who was forced into an early marriage is retrieved, that child is placed in a safe home. In most cases, with the help of the juvenile justice inspector, who has the power to actually take the case to court, the case is taken to court and the law takes its course. Now that we have spoken widely about early marriages, I hope that in this House, hon. Members of Parliament, there will be no offender because offenders have got no boundaries.

 

Rev. Katuta: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Mwamba: This law is coming and it might just embarrass you.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mutale: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

The point of order has been withdrawn.

 

Laughter

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, my question is in line with what the hon. Minister just said. When this Bill is brought to the House in order for it to be passed into law – normally, the offender is the male parent who seems to have an upper hand in forcing the child into early marriage unlike the mother.

 

Interruptions

 

Rev. Katuta:  It is true.

 

Madam Speaker, will the men serve more years when they get arrested for forcing a child into early marriage and the women less years?

 

Madam Speaker: That would be discrimination which is not allowed in the Constitution.

 

Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu): Madam Speaker, I need the hon. Minister’s attention.

 

Laughter

 

Ms Mwamba indicated assent.

 

Mr Kasandwe: Thank you.

 

Madam Speaker, in her response, the hon. Minister alluded to the fact that –

   

Madam Speaker: Somebody who was not listening is now demanding somebody to listen.

 

Mr Kasandwe: Icho chintu.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Kasandwe: Such is life, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker, in one of the responses, the hon. Minister indicated that one of the reasons young girls were forced to get married is because some parents were unable to pay their school fees. 

 

Madam Speaker, I have had an experience, especially in my neighbouring constituency in Chitambo, where even when the ministry introduced the Keep Girls in School Programme in that constituency, the girls whose fees were paid for by the Government opted to go and get married. So, this issue should be looked at from two sides: from the girls and the parents’ side.  Are there any programmes that can be implemented so that the young girls who opt to get out of school and get married can have a livelihood as it were?

 

Madam Speaker: That question was answered, actually.

 

Ms Mwamba: Madam Speaker, part of that question was answered, but we need to change the mindset, as a country. It is a matter of mindset change. As female leaders, we need to be role models to the young girls and be mentors and mothers. They see us in decision-making positions and we must use these positions to inspire them so that they look forward to completing their education, succeeding and living their full potential.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mrs Chonya: Madam Speaker, this is a very important subject. I am grateful to the hon. Member who raised the question because, today, a group of hon. Members commended the President for making very strong sentiments against child marriage.

 

Madam Speaker, how soon is the Child Code Bill likely to be presented to the House? Is it in this meeting? We need it so that we can begin to deal with these things legally. Otherwise, it is elating to hear what the ministry is doing to address this issue.

 

Madam Speaker: From what I understood, the hon. Minister said it will be brought in this meeting. That was the answer.

 

ELECTIFICATION OF CHIEFDOMS IN MILANZI CONSTITUENCY

 

235.  Ms Phiri (Milanzi) asked the Minister of Energy:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to electrify the following chiefdoms in Milanzi Parliamentary Constituency:

 

             (i) Kathumba; and

 

           (ii) Kawaza;

 

      b. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

 

       c. how many households are earmarked for electrification in each chiefdom.

 

The Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala): Madam Speaker, the Government of the Republic of Zambia, through the Rural Electrification Authority (REA), has plans of electrifying Kathumba and Kawaza chiefdoms in Milanzi Constituency.

 

Madam Speaker, according to the REA Master Plan, Kathumba and Kawaza chiefdoms were earmarked for electrification this year. However, due to limited resources, only Kathumba Chiefdom will be electrified this year, while Kawaza Chiefdom will be included in next year’s Budget.

 

Madam Speaker, once Kathumba Chiefdom is electrified, 400 households will be included in the scope of works. However, the number of households to be electrified under Kawaza Chiefdom will only be determined once feasibility studies are concluded.

 

Madam Speaker, I would like to offer additional information for the benefit of the hon. Member of Parliament. In November 2021, the REA visited Kathumba Chiefdom to conduct feasibility studies for possible electrification of the chiefdom and the surrounding areas. The electrification of Kathumba Chiefdom will involve the following:

 

1. tapping of power from an existing 11 kV overhead line supplying power to Nyanje mission and surrounding areas;
2. construction of 17 km of an 11 kV overhead line;
3. construction of 20 km of a 400 V overhead line; and
4. installation of four transformers.

 

Madam Speaker, the cost of these works is estimated at K13 million. The main beneficiaries of the project will include Chief Kathumba’s Palace, Chinzule Primary School, Gunda Primary School, Ndaula Mini Hospital and surrounding areas.

 

Madam Speaker, with regard to Kawaza Chiefdom, the REA will visit the chiefdom this year to conduct feasibility studies and establish the scope of works, and the cost of electrification to be included in next year’s budget.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Ms Phiri: Madam Speaker, the people of Milanzi would like to know when the feasibility studies will be concluded so that they can have electricity.

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, if the hon. Member followed my answer, she would have known that the feasibility study will be done this year for inclusion in next year’s budget.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, will the Ministry of Energy and the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) visit other chiefdoms in the country such as Chief Mapanza’s Chiefdom in Mbabala and Chief Mang’unza’s Palace as we look at Kawaza Chiefdom in Milanzi?

 

Madam Speaker: What has that question got to do with Milanzi? We are asking questions on Milanzi right now. Hon. Member for Mbabala, you might wish to put in a specific question so that the hon. Minister can have an opportunity to get the correct answer and supply it to you.

 

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that there are funds to implement the plans and what the source of those funds is so that the people of Kathumba and Kawaza can be guaranteed that, indeed, the plans will be implemented?

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I read slowly so that hon. Members of Parliament could follow my answer. I stated that Kathumba Chiefdom will be electrified this year and Kawaza Chiefdom will be electrified next year.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Chisanga: Madam Speaker, since this initiative will be undertaken by the Rural Electrification Authority (REA), are the households that will be connected to power going to be subjected to connection fees? If so, how much will it be? 

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

 

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

Madam Speaker: When business was suspended, the House was considering Question No. 235 on the Order Paper asked by the hon. Member for Milanzi, and the hon. Member for Lukashya had just asked a supplementary question. The hon. Minister may now answer the question.

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I am sorry to say that I have forgotten the question. Can the hon. Member repeat the question so that I respond to it adequately.

 

Madam Speaker gave the floor to Mr Chisanga.

 

Madam Speaker: Maybe, he can repeat the question later.

 

Ms Phiri: Madam Speaker, I will repeat the question that was posed by the hon. Member for Lukashya. He asked if the ministry is considering putting in place measures for the poor people of Milanzi who cannot afford to pay the connection fees.

 

Madam Speaker: I thought the question was whether those people whose households will be connected to power will pay connection fees.

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I can confirm that 400 households will be connected to power and, thereafter, they will be paying the usual tariffs.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Madam Speaker: Will there be any connection fees payable?

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, there will be no connection fees payable at this stage.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

DEPLOYMENT OF ADDITIONAL SURGEONS AT THE UTH

 

236.  Mr Hamwaata (Pemba) asked the Minister of Health:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to deploy additional surgeons to the University Teaching Hospital in Lusaka;
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
3. how many surgeons are earmarked for deployment to the hospital.

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, with your indulgence, I ask that I issue a comprehensive ministerial statement to deal with this issue.

 

Madam Speaker: When will that be?

 

Mrs Masebo: On Thursday, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, it is a procedural point of order. The hon. Minister of Health is a veteran. She is very experienced in this august House. There is no way a question which is on the Order Paper –

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Minister, resume your seat.

 

Mrs Masebo resumed her seat.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, it is a procedural point of order. The hon. Minister is not in order to ask that she issues a ministerial statement on a question which is appearing on the Order Paper. She can probably come and address certain matters later. However, the fact that the question is on the Order Paper means that the hon. Minister is not in order to avoid responding to it. The hon. Minister cannot decide as and when she can come and issue a ministerial statement. This is a matter that is under the jurisdiction of the Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister of Health, since the question is already on the Order Paper, you are required to answer it. Please, provide an answer to the extent that you are able to do so. The question is about deploying additional surgeons. It is either they are there or not there, and when the plans will be implemented.

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I just want to put it on record that I asked for your permission because I know that only the Speaker can make that decision. Now that you have made a decision, let me answer the question.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to deploy additional surgeons to all tertiary hospitals in the country, including University Teaching Hospitals (UTHs).

 

Madam Speaker, the Government will implement the deployment of additional surgeons to the UTH when specific treasury authority for promotion positions such as senior registrars and authority is granted.

 

Madam Speaker, the number of surgeons who will be deployed will be determined by the amount of treasury authority that will be issued as such.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister pre-emptied that she is likely to issue a ministerial statement.  When issuing the statement on the topic of the surgeons at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH), she should add the issue of volunteers. I can hardly go anywhere in Lusaka, especially in my constituency, without the people who have been volunteers at the hospitals for many years running to me and asking me to speak for them so they can be engaged permanently. What is the hon. Minister’s comment on that?

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Matero, the question of volunteering does not arise in Question No. 236.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, what a wonderful question.

 

Madam Speaker, I seek a serious point of clarification from the hon. Minister and I am happy that she indicated that the Government will deploy surgeons to all the hospitals. Out of the 11,000 health workers that the Government intends to employ this year, how many surgeons will be employed and how many will be deployed to every hospital in the entire country, including the University Teaching Hospital (UTH)?

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chama South, let us restrict ourselves to the University Teaching Hospital (UTH). The question is only in relation to the UTH.

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, this is why I had asked that I issue a ministerial statement on this subject because I wanted to help hon. Members of Parliament so that they have sufficient information. I noticed that this question will attract many questions which the public would also want to know. So, I still seek your authority, Madam Speaker, that I issue a ministerial statement on Thursday so that some of these issues can be properly addressed in light of the people who will be employed, and through that ministerial statement, I hope that hon. Members will understand the situation and I will clarify certain issues.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, as we ask questions, let us restrict ourselves to the UTH. Do not ask questions relating to the whole country, but only with respect to the UTH. The question is whether the Government has any plans to deploy additional surgeons and the hon. Minister said, yes, there are plans to do so. Then the next question is: if so, when the plans will be implemented. The hon. Minister answered that it will depend on the treasury authority being granted. The other question was: How many surgeons are earmarked for deployment to the hospital and, again, this will depend on treasury authority being granted. So, I do not know what other clarification will be required.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, questions are sent to the ministries well in advance and in view of the period it takes to process these questions, hon. Ministers have time to gather information. We cannot start changing the procedures of this august House. The hon. Minister said they are waiting for treasury authority to be granted. In the meantime, the Permanent Secretary in her ministry assured our doctors, who are on the streets, that they will be recruited this year. Why is it difficult for the hon. Minister to tell us the number of people, out of the 11,000, will be deployed to the UTH and when treasury authority will be granted for those people to be employed? Why is the hon. Minister failing to reconcile these two positions, when she was given enough time to get the facts for this question? We want to know when treasury authority will be granted because the public out there already knows that 11,000 health workers are earmarked for recruitment this year, using the fiscal space for this year.

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Iwe, she is a busy Minister.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Kampyongo: You, she has been around.

 

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

 

Mr Kampyongo: I need your protection, Madam Speaker, because –

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Mr Kampyongo: I am asking this, Madam Speaker, knowing very well that we are dealing with a veteran and experienced Minister, if not the most experienced on the right hand side, who has been in the New Deal Government, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government and now the New Dawn Government. Can the hon. Minister give us a clear answer.

 

Madam Speaker: Anyway, since it is the first time that something like this has happened, I will reluctantly exercise my discretion and allow the hon. Minister to come back with an appropriate answer addressing this question. Of course, this is against our Standing Orders that we made for ourselves. When Standing Orders are made, they should be complied with. The idea is not to come and embarrass each other whether from the left or the right. The idea is for the hon. Ministers to provide information which will be useful not only to the House but to the people of Zambia.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: So, it is not in my interest to impose or order the hon. Minister to give an answer which might end up not being the correct position. I will exercise my discretion, as I said, and will allow the hon. Minister to issue a ministerial statement because the question is already on the Order Paper. That ministerial statement should be made this coming Friday so that the people of Zambia are notified and clarity is given in terms of the 11,000 medical personnel who will be employed.

 

CONSTRUCTION OF AN AIRPORT AT KASABA BAY

 

237. Mr Fube asked the Minister of Transport and Logistics:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to construct an airport at Kasaba Bay in the Northern Province;
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
3. if there are no such plans, why.

 

The Minister of Transport and Logistics (Mr Tayali): Madam Speaker, the Government, indeed, has plans to construct an airport at Kasaba Bay and implement the upgrade of the Kasaba Bay Airport Runway in the newly created Nsama District and not in Mbala District.

 

Madam Speaker, works are expected to commence within the implementation of the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP).

 

Madam Speaker, as mentioned earlier, the Government has plans to upgrade the airport at Kasaba Bay.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, of all the priorities this country has, why should the Treasury spend money on the construction of an airport at Kasaba Bay in view of the country’s needs and requirements and challenges that it has? Given that so many airports were developed recently, such as the Simon Kapwepwe International Airport, the Kenneth Kaunda International Airport and the one in Livingstone, why should the Treasury spend money on creating another airport?

 

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, in answering the hon. Member for Matero’s question, I wish to state that the construction of an airport at Kasaba Bay is not a greenfield project. This project has been there for a long time, dating way back to the days of our founding President in the first Republic, Dr Kenneth Kaunda, who used to normally retreat to that area. Let me also hasten to mention that, indeed, the project is a carry forward among many other projects that had stalled under the previous Administration and that is why I said that its implementation shall be within the 8NDP which, as you will relate, is the period dating 2022 all the way to 2026, and there is a budgetary allocation to that effect and towards this cause. Mind you, Kasaba Bay is one area where there is immense potential to promote tourism, So, it is a comprehensive approach to achieving our development goals.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, Kasaba Bay Airport, as the hon. Minister indicated, will open up the northern circuit (inaudible). Has the ministry (inaudible) the completion of this airport where a consultant was (inaudible) and a lot of money was being demanded beyond what (inaudible) was already paid.

 

Madam Speaker, the figures –

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Chama South, we cannot hear you. I will call on you later. Hon. Member for Lumezi.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, it gladdens my heart that we are being permitted to ask questions on the construction of an airport at Kasaba Bay because I remember vividly when we were discussing the budget that some of us raised concerns on the Floor of the House concerning this. This project was terminated in 2011, as a result of people saying it was awarded corruptly. Then, the cost of this project was K65 million from inception to its conclusive end. Ten years down the line in this year’s budget, we have allocated more than K150 million for works that would have been done at a lesser cost of K65 million. Is the hon. Minister in a position to tell this august House how much the airport will cost?

 

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for bringing to light some of the problems that this project faced. Yes, indeed, in 2009, the Government entered into a contract with a company for contract management services and for the construction of an airport at Kasaba Bay. However, the previous Administration raised issues on how this contract had been awarded and this is what led the matter to go to court. Subsequently, the Government, having been advised by the Attorney General’s Chambers, decided to settle the matter outside the court. That action alone cost the Government colossal sums of money, which pushed the project sum from K63 million, that the hon. Member has talked about, to K152 million out of the consent judgment. Of the K152 million, K52 million has been paid and we are remaining with a balance of K100 million.

 

Madam Speaker, it is this Government’s desire – obviously, we cannot cry over spilled milk and whatever happened at the watch of the previous Administration is now water under the bridge. This is something that we have inherited and we intend to make good.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, I would like to make a follow-up on what the hon. Minister said. The hon. Minister referred to the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP) as a condition to implement the Kasaba Bay project. On page 40 of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning’s speech, there is an allocation of K150 million to that effect.  How are the two married because the 8NDP that the hon. Minister referred to has not yet been launched and there is an allocation of K150 million in the Budget? Is that K150 million going to be used this year because it is in the 2022 Budget or will it wait for the implementation of the 8NDP, which the hon. Minister said goes up to 2026? So, what will be done to that K150 million allocation under economic affairs?

 

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, I think the hon. Member must have misconstrued what I said. I did not say that the 8NDP was a condition. I said that such an exercise will be completed within the period of the 8NDP.  The hon. Member referred to the K150 million, and I acknowledge that, yes, those funds have been set aside and they may be sufficient to complete the runway project but may not suffice to bring the airport to a good standard of having airport terminals and other things. The funds for such other construction works may come in subsequent budgets. I think that is a long and short of it.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kasandwe: Madam Speaker, my question has been over taken by events.

 

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, it is good that the hon. Minister gave the background of that project, and among other things, he talked about the upgrade of the 1.5 runaway to bituminous standard, and I do not know if at all that plan will be followed, to facilitate the project of the airport. The hon. Minister also mentioned the terminals. Can the hon. Minister clarify whether the K150 million allocation in this year’s Budget will go towards the 1.5 runaway or has that plan been abandoned?

 

Madam Speaker: It is a runway not runaway.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, when I do good things in this Parliament, I am not even acknowledged.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, we do acknowledge, but where need be, we can correct each other. We all make mistakes.

 

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, thank you for that correction. I was wondering what the hon. Member was trying to imply. Certainly, nobody is running away.

 

Madam Speaker, it is suffice for me to say that it goes without saying that the funds which have been made available in this year’s budget will, indeed, allow us to commence works at Kasaba Bay and this may entail the completion of the runway. That is exactly what I said in no uncertain terms and unambiguously.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, I am sorry, I am a little bit lost. I heard the hon. Minister say that the Government will build a new airport and that the old one will be renovated, if I am not mistaken. Will the new airport be an international airport or will it only cater for domestic planes, and the new –

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, one question.

 

Mr Twasa: Thank you, Madam Speaker, before I run away.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question.

 

Madam Speaker, I do not recall any reference being made to the establishment of a new international airport. This is to do with an upgrade of the facility that we have at Kasaba Bay.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

EQUIPMENT FOR ROAD CONSTRUCTION

 

238. Mr Mulaliki (Senanga Central) (on behalf of Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central)) asked the Minister of Defence:

 

1. whether the Zambia National Service has adequate equipment for road construction; and
2. what the benefits of transferring the Rural Roads Unit to the Zambia National Service are.

 

The Minister of Defence (Mr Lufuma): Madam Speaker, the Zambia National Service (ZNS) does not have adequate equipment for road construction to meet the machinery demand both from the Government and the private sector in all the ten provinces.

 

Madam Speaker, the benefits of pulling together both human and financial resources including equipment in this sector cannot be overemphasised. This was evidenced by the massive construction of primary feeder roads across the nation, which was not the case before merging the two departments. In the past, the Government would release funds for such activities and the results could not be seen, but during this period, we are talking about 2000 km of rural roads having been constructed countrywide.

 

Madam Speaker, equipment strength was increased and strength was increased on skilled and professional human resources in terms of engineers, operators and mechanics.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, by definition, the Zambia National Service (ZNS) is a service offering institution. However, when we approach the ZNS to help us patch up small roads, be it from –

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

There is some noise. Is it a phone or a radio, or is it feedback from our equipment? Hon. Member for Matero, make sure that you switch off your audio as you are asking the question.

 

Mr Sampa: Noted, Madam Speaker. Am I audible now?

 

Madam Speaker: Yes, you are audible.

 

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, by definition, the word ‘service’ refers to rendering a service to the community and the country at large. However, why does the ZNS charge us highly competitive prices, as if it is a profit-making entity, when we approach it to help us patch up potholes, either using our own money or well-wishers’ money or the Constituency Development Fund (CDF)?

 

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, I must say the hon. Member is totally right that by definition, the ZNS is supposed to render services to the nation or to the various departments that may call upon it for its service. However, I must point out that it is not true that we charge exorbitantly. On the contrary, we charge in order to ensure that the equipment that we use can be serviced. So, it is on cost recovery basis and if you compare us with the private sector, we charge less. This is why, in the first place, even privately, most people rush to the ZNS for its service. So, it is not true that we overcharge.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chama South, what is the point of order?

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, surprisingly, the system is in default. We cannot indicate and we cannot be put on the e-Chamber because we have been locked out. I believe we were elected to speak on behalf of our people and that is the reason the Government is paying us. Have the rules changed whereby only a few people can be admitted and, thereafter, the Information and Communication Technology (ICT) personnel lock the system?

 

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chama South, as you can see, we have a number of questions that we have to attend to before the time of adjournment. So, I use my discretion. When I see that the person who has asked the question has exhausted his/her questions, I allow a few more questions. Then, when I see that more questions are being asked, I ask the Information and Communication Technology (ICT) personnel to close the system. If I allow each and every question, some of which are repetitive, we will not be able to go through the order of proceedings. So, take note of that. Some hon. Members are asking questions on every question. You are in Chama South, but you are finding yourself in Kasaba Bay …

                                                                                                                                 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: … and everywhere else. You are all over. So, I am just trying to observe time as we go through the business.

 

Mr J. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, in the last meeting, I remember asking Her Honour the Vice-President the same question. In 2015, close to over 400 civil servants were transferred to the ZNS. It is in public domain that this project is a failed project. Civilians have literally failed to merge into the ZNS, which is a trained oriented institution. Has the hon. Minister taken time to carry out a due diligence study to find out whether these civil servants have managed to fuse in the ZNS? Otherwise, the Government will end up paying money to people who are literally doing nothing as it is now. So, is the hon. Minister able to go on the ground to find out whether this project has borne the desired fruits?

 

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question.

 

Madam Speaker, I must indicate that in the recent past, I have been on the ground and I have gone to many military components, in particular the ZNS. The major challenge is not the collaboration or the infusion of the civilians into military systems but rather the lack of adequate machinery. That is the major challenge and not the collaboration and working together as a team of the civilians and the soldiers. That has been taken care of and the civilians are acting in the manner they are supposed to act in terms of discipline and attitude towards work.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, what is the extent of the adequacy or inadequacy of the equipment at the Zambia National Service (ZNS)? I remember very well that the decision to take the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) to the ZNS came with a lot of machinery, unless it is a question of machinery breaking down. Over the weekend, we had a problem, and we wanted the ZNS to come to our aid but we faced a similar challenge that everyone else is raising, where the ZNS continues to give excuses.

 

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, the adequacy and inadequacy of the equipment is such that we are not able to meet your demands.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

 

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister agrees with me that the equipment not only under the Zambia National Service (ZNS) but also the Zambia Army can go a long way in supporting infrastructure programmes, especially the feeder roads he referred to. I know that for all the activities that the ZNS has been carrying out, payments have been made towards the equipment. Considering the importance of this equipment, does the ministry have an asset purchase cycle, which should support some works in rural areas in relation to infrastructure?

 

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question.

 

Madam Speaker, the challenge we have is that most of the equipment is so dilapidated. Even when the RRU and the ZNS combined, most of the equipment was already in a state of disrepair. So, even if we try as much as possible to charge at a cost recovery basis, we are not able to replace the equipment in order to continue to service. So, most of the equipment is not serviceable and we lack the necessary numbers to continue to assist. As the Government, we have to find a way to dispose of that equipment and to raise some money in order to get new equipment if we are to be effective on the ground. As at now, we are incapacitated.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Hamwaata: Madam Speaker, does the Government have any plans to buy more equipment so that the Zambia National Service (ZNS) can have adequate equipment? By the way, the 156 constituencies need to be supported because they do not have the capacity to have the necessary equipment.

 

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that very important question.

 

Madam Speaker, the desire to acquire more equipment is more than there. We desire to have a lot of equipment in order to service all the parts of this country, especially that the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) was increased. So, the desire is there and there are plans. However, we have to rely on the Treasury. In terms of priorities and allocation of funds, it cannot meet our desire or plan to purchase more equipment in order to service you. So, there is that discrepancy between what we have planned and the ability of the Treasury to fund this desire and plan. So, that discrepancy will be there until such a time that the economy maybe improves and the Treasury has enough money to assist the ZNS acquire the necessary equipment.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chisanga: Madam Speaker, my question has been partly answered. I wanted to ask on whether there are plans to acquire equipment and it is clear that this is a long-term plan. However, does the Government have short term plans to rehabilitate all the equipment so that they can be in a serviceable condition and the Zambia National Service (ZNS) can continue rehabilitating the roads. I say this because when the equipment was transferred to the ZNS, there was at least three complete equipment in each province but we do not know what happened to it. Are there any plans to repair this equipment so that the ZNS can continue serving the people?

 

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, yes, there are plans to repair the equipment and it is an ongoing activity so that we can keep a certain fleet strength to be able to do the little that we have been able to do. So, we have those plans and they are ongoing.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Lumezi, as you raise a point of order, bear in mind that we still have six questions and we only have fifty minutes before we adjourn.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I rise in line with Standing Order 65, read together with Standing Order 207.

 

Madam Speaker, the people of Lumezi are afraid because you ruled earlier that we cannot be debating Kasaba Bay when we are from Chama. Are you limiting us to only discuss our constituencies when we are elected to represent the views of the Zambian people?

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Lumezi, go through the Standing Orders and understand them properly. I gave an example of the hon. Member from Chama South asking about Kasaba Bay, to transpose the issues of Chama South into Kasaba Bay and ask a question by way of expanding it. That is what I meant. We have limited time and I have to manage time as the Presiding Officer. Otherwise, I will not be able to go through the order of proceedings. The points of order you are raising are derailing the proceedings. Please, let us go back and seriously address the business that is before us so that we conclude it.    

 

STALLED CONSTRUCTION OF THE MAGISTRATES COURT BUILDING IN FEIRA DISTRICT

 

239. Mr E. Tembo asked the Minister of Justice:

 

1. why the construction of the magistrates court building in Feira District has stalled; 
2. when the project will resume; and
3. what the cause of the delay in completing the project is.

 

The Minister of Justice (Mr Haimbe): Madam Speaker, the construction of the court building in Feira District has stalled as funds which were budgeted for the project have not been completely granted to the Judiciary by the Treasury. The contract to build a court in Feira District was awarded to Yashhab Contractors in the year 2011 at a contract sum of K1,215,857.80. The building works commenced during the same year but stalled in the year 2014 due to a lack of all the funds needed to complete the project.

 

Madam Speaker, consequently, the contract awarded to the contractor expired and, therefore, the works could not be executed within the contract term. That was in 2014 and the question is being answered in 2022. Please, note the timelines.

 

Madam Speaker, however, the building works are currently at 65 per cent and have reached ring beam level. The completion of the construction of the court building is among the works that are budgeted for in the 2022 Budget. Therefore, once all funds are made available by the Treasury, the process to ensure the completion of the construction works will resume.

 

Madam Speaker, the delay in completing the project was as a result of the lack of funding needed to complete the project, as aforementioned. However, the New Dawn Government is committed to completing the project once the funds are made available.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr E. Tembo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the response.

 

 Madam Speaker, Feira District is growing. It is at the border and the rate of crime is going up so much. People come in and out of the district for fish trade, and this has posed a very serious issue to the justice system. Right now, court sessions take place in a dilapidated local court and, indeed, it is not a good site. The magistrates are running away from us because of that condition. I am inclined to ask a specific question because I need to take a good answer back to the constituency: When are the funds going to be made available?

 

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, indeed, the issue of crime is one that is of cardinal importance and also going with it, the question of the delivery of justice, especially in the criminal justice sector where custodial sentences mean that liberties are denied. That is why as the New Dawn Government we have prioritised these matters.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member will note that it has been eight years since the project stalled, and quite clearly, that situation which preceded our taking up these positions on the right-hand side cannot be allowed to continue. So, as a responsible Government, the hon. Member will recall that the allocation for the Judiciary in the Budget has increased by over 40 per cent. As soon as the Appropriation Bill is passed, which this House did, it means that these funds will be made available. The hon. Member can assure the constituents of Feira that the New Dawn Government has done what needs to be done and the rest is a matter of implementation, which is going to be done in due course within the 2022 Budget.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

REHABILITATION OF THE KABWE CENTRAL HOSPITAL

 

240.  Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central) asked the Minister of Health:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to rehabilitate Kabwe Central Hospital which is in a deplorable condition;
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and 
3. when the paving of the hospital grounds will be completed.

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to rehabilitate Kabwe Central Hospital. However, the implementation will be in 2023. The House, however, may wish to note that Ward 6, which is within Kabwe Central Hospital, has been rehabilitated using the National Health Insurance Scheme (NHIMA) funds.

 

Madam Speaker, the paving of the hospital grounds will be completed in the second quarter of this year 2022.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, this hospital was earmarked to be a trauma centre. How quickly is the Government going to renovate the hospital so that it can look like a hospital? This hospital is a sad sight. Since this hospital is earmarked to be a trauma centre, when is the Government going to renovate it?

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I did indicate when answering part (b) of the question that the implementation will be in 2023.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Ms Halwiindi: Madam Speaker, I am happy that even eyes from Chienge are able to see the condition of Kabwe Central Hospital. This hospital was built pre-independence in 1953. In 2023, will this hospital be a priority for rehabilitation? The roof is in a deplorable state, the sewer system needs attention and the water pipes are also in a deplorable state.

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I do now know what else to say because I have indicated that the implementation of the rehabilitation of Kabwe Central Hospital will be in the year 2023, which is next year, meaning it has been prioritised for 2023.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

AWARENESS ON EFFECTIVE MANAGEMENT OF LIVESTOCK

 

241.  Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Fisheries and Livestock:

 

1. what measures the Government is taking to create awareness on effective management of livestock among emerging livestock farmers in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency;
2. whether the Government has any plans to construct an agriculture training college in the constituency; and
3. if so, when the plans will be implemented.

 

The Minister of Fisheries and Livestock (Mr Chikote): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that my ministry attaches great importance to the issue of creating awareness on the effective management of livestock among emerging livestock farmers. This forms the basis for successful implementation of all livestock development interventions that the ministry is implementing. Kanchibiya is one of the districts in Muchinga Province where my ministry is promoting livestock development among the 1,772 livestock farmers based there. The House may wish to note that there are 4,813 cattle, 10,791 goats, 2,648 sheep, 1,058 pigs and 28,826 village chickens in the district. The district is divided into four livestock camps, namely Mpepo, Chibaye, Kanchibiya Central and Kopa. These camps are manned by three veterinary assistants, one livestock technician and one livestock officer.

 

Madam Speaker, in order to create awareness on the effective management of livestock among emerging livestock farmers in Kanchibiya, the Government has put in place the following measures:

 

1. provision of livestock extension services- my ministry is providing both veterinary and animal husbandry extension services to a farmer based in Kanchibiya District using a participatory approach;
2. my ministry has recruited fifteen community livestock facilitators to complement the ministry in the delivery of extension services in the four livestock camps;
3. my ministry has constructed two livestock service centres, namely Chikakala Livestock Service Centre Tier 1 and Munganga Livestock Service Centre Tier 2 to provide livestock trainings and demonstrations in Kanchibiya District; and
4. my ministry is promoting the formation and strengthening of livestock co-operatives to facilitate for mobilisation of farmers for the effective delivery of extension services. My ministry has so far formulated twelve co-operatives in this regard.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to construct an agriculture training college in Kanchibiya Constituency. I wish to take this opportunity to inform the people of Kanchibiya that there is an agriculture training institution in Mpika District, namely the Zambia College of Agriculture. This college offers certificates and diploma programmes in general agriculture and sustainable agriculture and the people of Kanchibiya can access these programmes using the institution which is within.Actually, before Kanchibiya District was created, it was part of Mpika.

 

Madam Speaker, I encourage the hon. Member to work with the Constituency Development Committee to partner with the Zambia College of Agriculture in Mpika to develop agriculture skills programmes for the benefits of the emerging farmers. These facilities can be accessed through the use of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Other agricultural training institutions which offer other similar and advanced agricultural programmes include, the National Resource Development College (NRDC) in Lusaka, the Zambia College of Agriculture in Monze, the Zambia Institute of Animal Health in Mazabuka and the Palabana Daily Institution in Chongwe.

 

Madam Speaker, as there are no immediate plans to construct an agricultural training college as indicated above, therefore, part (c) falls off.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his elaborate response to my question.

 

Madam Speaker, one of the challenges that the Department of Livestock and Fisheries in Kanchibiya faces, considering the landscape and vastness of the area, is the lack of ideal transportation. Does the ministry have any plans to support the Department of Livestock and Fisheries in Kanchibiya with ideal transportation?

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, indeed, I am aware of the challenges the ministry is having in terms of extension services due to the lack of transport. I agree with the hon. Member that Kanchibiya is a vast area, and even the four camps that are there face the challenge of the lack of transport. We are trying our level best to put in place immediate measures and we are training community facilitators who will help us to supplement on the extension services in the district. Going forward, we are working to see to it that we provide transport to all our districts and camps. So, this challenge has been there for some time and as soon as we stabilise in terms of resources, we will provide transport for our extension officers not only in Kanchibiya but across the country for them to execute their duties efficiently.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, there is a need for strict veterinary requirements. I am happy that there are four camps, but there is a need to upscale considering that livestock production is on the rise and it is one of the industries that is coming up. Countries like Botswana with over 5 billion livestock has really emphasised on veterinary requirements and as a result, it is able to import to markets like Europe, and I think that should be our aspiration. When will we see the livestock industry in this country penetrate markets like the European market? 

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, indeed, our vision is to see to it that as we encourage our farmers to produce, we also look at the possible markets where they will be able to sell their products. Going forward, in terms of competing on the international market, we need to put in place two things, more to do with disease control and other sanitary issues. We have to work towards meeting the standards so that even when our farmers start thinking of competing on the international market, we would have put our house in order. We are trying to make sure that the issue of diseases is sorted out in Zambia so that the farmers in Kanchibiya are able to compete with other farmers on the international market.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

CLOSURE OF BALUBA MINE

 

242. Mr J. Chibuye asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

 

1. whether the Government is aware that Baluba Mine in Luanshya District is scheduled to close in 2022; and
2. if so, what measures are being taken to avert job losses.

 

Madam Speaker: The Minister of Youth, Sport and Art will respond on behalf of the hon. Minister of – sorry, the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development.

 

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Kabuswe): Madam Speaker, I almost thought the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Art is acting on my behalf when I am actually here.

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: I am receiving so many notes.

 

Mr Kabuswe: That was on a lighter note, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: I understand. Proceed, hon. Minister.

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I think this question was asked last year. We have already visited Luanshya Copper Mines and we engaged management about the impending closure and it assured us that there will be no job losses and that it has put in place measures to work on a resource identified at Mushiba Mine which, once developed, will absorb all the labour that will be offloaded from the closure of Baluba Mine.

 

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that this morning, I actually called management at Luanshya Copper Mines to make sure that it still sticks to its assurance that there will be no job losses. So, I assure the people of Luanshya that there will be no job losses and that Mushiba Mine is being developed and all of them will be absorbed.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr J. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, indeed, as the hon. Minister of Mines and Mineral Development has said, we had the privilege to receive him in Luanshya sometime early this year, where the assurance was made. However, I want to bring it to the attention of the hon. Minister that miners in Roan Constituency are living in fear, in that, some of them are actually being laid off on the pretext that their services are no longer required by the mines.

 

Madam Speaker, in as much as the hon. Minister assured us, he should indeed ensure that no one loses employment either by means of his/her services not being required by the mines, which we feel might be a route of firing some miners, or any other way. In as much as we appreciate the hon. Minister’s response, was this response that no one will be fired just verbal or how concrete can we assure the miners in Roan Constituency that indeed everyone who will be removed from Baluba Mine will be taken to Mushiba Mine?

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I am with the hon. Member for Roan and that is why I said that this morning, I managed to speak to management at Luanshya Copper Mines and it assured me that no one will lose his/her job. If at all anybody lost a job, maybe it could be due to other circumstances because Baluba Mine is not yet closed. So, when it closes, there will be a smooth transition to Mushiba Mine, which is being developed right now. I have been assured of that and I assure the people of Roan not to worry. Maybe some people are being laid off because of other reasons. We are very keen on the people of Luanshya because we would not want them to go through what they went through in successive Governments. The New Dawn Government is proactive and not reactive. So, we will make sure that nobody losses his/her job. I assure the hon. Member for Roan that even the issue of Shaft 28 is very active in our discussions because we know that part of the labour may be absorbed by that mine if it is dewatered and begins to be operational.

 

Mr J. Chibuye: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kabuswe: So, I assure the people of Roan that the Government of Hakainde Hichilema cares for them and it is very proactive.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: It appears that the hon. Member for Roan is very happy with the answer. Since the question was already asked and in view of time, we will proceed. I will not take any further questions on that matter.

 

CONSTRUCTION OF THE SESHEKE TRADES INSTITUTE

 

243. Mrs Munashabantu (Mapatizya) (on behalf of Mr Kangombe (Sesheke)) asked the Minister of Technology and Science:

 

1. when the construction of Sesheke Trades Institute in Katima Mulilo Ward in Sesheke Parliamentary Constituency will be completed;
2. what the cause of the delay in completing the project is;
3. what the total cost of the project is; and
4. what the timeframe for the completion of the project is.

 

The Minister of Youth, Sport and Art (Mr Nkandu) (on behalf of the Minister of Technology and Science (Mr Mutati)): Madam Speaker, the construction of Sesheke Trades Training Institute in Katima Mulilo Ward in Sesheke Parliamentary Constituency is scheduled for completion by 30^th June, 2022.

 

Madam Speaker, the delay in the completion of the project has been due to financial challenges.

 

Madam Speaker, the original contract sum for the construction of Sesheke Trades Training Institute was K21,425,925.71. However, with authority from the Attorney-General, this was varied by an addition of K11,284,851.97, bringing the amount to K32,710,777.68 with Value Added Tax (VAT) inclusive pursuant to Regulation 150 (1) of the Public Procurement Regulations of 2011.

 

Madam Speaker, the contract to construct Sesheke Trades Training Institute was awarded to Zhengtai Group Construction. The works commenced on 1^st December, 2014, and were scheduled for completion on 1^st January, 2017. Due to inadequate funds, the contractor demobilised citing the cost of keeping the workers on site and as a result, the project stalled.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government however, through the then Ministry of Technology and Science, resolved the matter by setting aside funds from the Skills Development Fund for some prioritised Technical Vocational Education and Training (TEVET) projects, inclusive of Sesheke Trades Training Institute.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government disbursed K3,072,897.39 in 2021 and has intensified monitoring and evaluation of the ongoing works. Completion is scheduled for 30^th June, 2022, as stated in part (a) of the question.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mrs Munashabantu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the response and I have no supplementary question.

 

SONDASHI 2000 HERBAL DRUG

 

244.  Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North) asked the Minister of Health:

 

1. whether the Sondashi 2000 herbal drug is effective in curing HIV/AIDS; 
2. why it has taken long to determine the efficacy of the drug;
3. what the status of the clinical trials on the drug is;
4. whether the Government is aware that some organisations have been selling drugs which they claim cure HIV/AIDS; and
5. if so, what measures the Government is taking to protect citizens from procuring such drugs from unlicensed persons.

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, there is currently no scientific evidence that the Sondashi Formula, SF 2000DS, herbal drug is effective in curing Human Immunodeficiency Virus/Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome (HIV/AIDS) because the drug has not been tested for efficacy or effectiveness. It has only undergone phase one safety trials.

 

Madam Speaker, the delay in determining the efficacy of the drug is due to a lack of funds. The estimated cost of undertaking phase two clinical trials is K7 million.

 

Madam Speaker, the Sondashi Formula, SF 2000DS, has undergone preclinical trials. It has also undergone phase one human safety trials conducted by the Tropical Diseases Research Centre (TDRC). The House may wish to note that the next stage is to undertake human phase two and phase three clinical trials, but these stages have been hampered by a lack of funding. The House may wish to note the following:

 

1. preclinical trials tests for safety and antimicrobial effects of the drug in laboratory animal models. In this case, the drug was found to have antiviral effects;
2. phase one clinical trials to test the safety and safe dosage range of the drug in a few male volunteers. In the study conducted by the TDRC, the drug was found to be safe;
3. phase two clinical trials to test medicines that have been found safe in phase one, but now need a larger group of human participants to monitor the safety and efficacy of the drug. This has not yet been done for Sondashi Formula, SF 2000DS, due to a lack of funds;
4. phase three clinical trials are conducted on larger populations of different study sites to test the efficacy and safety of the drug. This step is undertaken when a new treatment is approved by drug regulatory authorities such the Zambia Medicines Regulatory Authority (ZAMRA) for use; and
5. phase four clinical trials are conducted after the medicine has been given marketing authorisation by the ZAMRA, which is meant to monitor side effects on a larger general population in real life (not experimental conditions) and for a long time. This process of monitoring side effects is called pharmacovigilance.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government is aware that some organisations have been selling drugs which they claim cure HIV/AIDS. The Government, through the ZAMRA, has been investigating and acting on the cases. A number of these organisations use flyers, social media or websites to advertise to unsuspecting members of the public. The ZAMRA has been issuing press statements to warn violators and to also caution members of the public to desist from buying such products without proven scientific evidence that the drugs work.

 

Madam Speaker, the measures undertaken by the Government, through the ZAMRA, are as follows:

 

1. screen products to be imported through import controls which is intended to eliminate unauthorised products;
2. curbing of illegal sale of the products through inspections with subsequent prosecution of offenders;
3. sensitisation of members of the public on dangers of sourcing unauthorised products from illegal outlets or via websites. The activity is also extended to traders in markets without permits or certificates issued by the ZAMRA;
4. conducting post market surveillance of products on the market to identify unauthorised products circulating on the Zambian market, which results in recall of the said products in order to protect the Zambian population;
5. registration of products by the ZAMRA as a regulatory mechanism to ensure only products of acceptable standard of quality, safety and effectiveness are made available

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, this country is spending millions of dollars annually to buy Antiretroviral Drugs (ARVs) and I do not think K7 million is a lot of money, which the Government can fail to source, so that this drug can undergo phase two of testing. I appeal to the Government to source for money because it is important that home-grown solutions are also taken into account.

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, it is shocking to see that each Government that comes into power adopts the dependence syndrome of depending on foreign help.

 

Madam Speaker, we are talking about medicine which can be affordable to the locals and which cannot cost as much as it costs the Government to get Antiretroviral Drugs (ARVs) from outside the country with the help of the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (PEPFAR).

 

Madam Speaker, if the Government has the energy to find money to promote the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) vaccines, can it not also direct that energy to see to it that it finds money and directs it to the Sondashi Formula project? We have been talking about this project since I became Member of Parliament and former hon. Members of Parliament have talked about this. Why can the New Dawn Government not concert its efforts to see to it that the whole process of the Sondashi Formula is completed?

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I concede and will deal with a supplementary budget over this matter.

 

I thank you Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mapani (Namwala): Madam Speaker, I would like to know whether the two people who took that drug on trial basis are now okay? What is their current status?

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I do not know whether two people were under observation to see the impact of the Sondashi Formula except that I said that the trails on animals and a smaller group were okay. We are now waiting for a trail to be conducted on a bigger group, and I said there is a budget implication of K7 million, and that is the one that we should surely look at so that we get the results and close this issue.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chama North, any further question?

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, I have no supplementary question.

 

Madam Speaker: Any further supplementary question? Not even from the hon. Member for Chama South? You are quiet. We miss your questions. Hon. Member for Chilubi, any questions?

 

Laughter

 

Mr Chinkuli: The system is locked.

 

Madam Speaker: You have been called upon to ask questions. Remember we are almost in the dying minutes, so, I am just exercising my discretion to call upon hon. Members. Hon. Member for Chama South, do you have a question?

 

Mr Chinkuli (Kanyama): Madam Speaker, during the dawn of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19), a number of remedies were brought to our attention of which some of them involved steaming using local remedies other than the drugs that were imported, which would cure the disease.

 

Madam Speaker, our own scientist advised that if this herb is used in a certain manner or packaged in a certain manner, it can cure Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV). However, we are not taking steps like the ones the hon. Member stated to invest in the same drug so that we see its completion.

 

Madam Speaker, we are busy looking at drugs that are imported, and our scientists may not even have the capacity to ascertain the quality of these drugs. This is an appeal and not a question. Why can we not have whatever drugs that are brought on board be tested by our local scientists or doctors to see their quality and how they work towards curing certain diseases that we are faced with?

 

Madam Speaker: The dangers of filling time.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

_______

 

MOTION

 

ADJOURNMENT

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

 

Question put and agreed to.

 

______

 

 

The House adjourned at 1836 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 2^nd March, 2022.

 

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