Wednesday, 2^nd March, 2022

 

The House met at 1430 hours

 

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

 

_______

 

MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

 

MR MTAYACHALO, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR CHAMA NORTH, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HEALTH, ON THE SHORTAGE OF COARTEM IN CHAMA

 

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to raise this matter of urgent public importance. The matter I wish to raise is directed at the hon. Minister of Health. Chama District Hospital has run out of Coartem, the malaria drug, and other essential medicines. As a result, patients are being given prescriptions to go and buy malaria drugs in chemists.

 

Madam Speaker, poverty in rural areas is very prominent. The majority of the people cannot afford to buy Coartem and probably that is the reason the number of deaths has increased in the constituency. Further, out of ten gas cylinders at Chama District Hospital, only one has oxygen. This has put the lives of many people in Chama District at risk especially that we are in the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) era. Now, if only one oxygen machine is working and suppose we have got two or three people who need emergency services, what will happen?

 

Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence, especially that malaria is the number one killer disease in Sub-Saharan Africa.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chama North, before you sit down, have you engaged the hon. Minister of Health on this matter?

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, I just received this information about an hour ago.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, I would encourage you to engage the hon. Minister of Health because Zambia is big. You can raise this issue as a matter of urgent public importance, but by the time the hon. Minister comes back to render a statement maybe next week, it might be too late.

 

I see that the hon. Minister is not yet here, but it is important to raise these issues directly with the hon. Minister, instead of waiting to come and raise them here. I know that it is important that the issue should be raised, but apart from being raised, we want to see that action is taken, so that we avert losing lives because of the shortage of drugs. In this regard, I will direct that the hon. Minister of Health renders a ministerial statement next week on Tuesday on the issue of the shortage of drugs in the hospitals in Chama North.

 

MR J. E. BANDA, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR PETAUKE, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND LOGISTICS, ON RECENT ACCIDENTS AND SUICIDES IN THE COUNTRY

 

Mr. J. E. Banda (Petauke): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Petauke a chance to raise a matter of urgent public importance. From yesterday, we have witnessed a lot of accidents in Zambia and these accidents have claimed –

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Petauke, were you in the House yesterday?

Mr J. E. Banda: Yes, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Did you attend all the proceedings?

 

Mr J. E. Banda: Yes, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: So, if you did, did you not hear two hon. Members of Parliament yesterday raising a similar issue on the issue of accidents? Previously last week, another hon. Member of Parliament raised the same issue. We are waiting for the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics to render a ministerial statement on the same matter. So, if it is in regard to accidents, that matter has already been raised and we are waiting for the hon. Minister to render a ministerial statement. Unless if it is a different matter altogether.

 

Mr J. E. Banda: Yes, Madam Speaker, it is different.

 

Madam Speaker: Proceed, then we will hear you.

 

Mr J. E. Banda: This issue is directed at the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts. Yesterday, we lost one of our lawyers in the Eastern Province through a road traffic accident. So, I am asking if the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics can intervene through a commission of inquiry or invite pastors across the nation, so that we can pray over this issue. This is because of a very bad spirit.

 

Mr Kapyanga: It is a bad one!

 

Mr J. E. Banda: Yes, it is a bad one.

 

Laughter

 

Mr J. E. Banda: It goes together with the spirit of suicide.

 

Mr Mposha: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr J. E. Banda: The day before yesterday, we saw a seven year old boy –

 

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Petauke!

 

There is a point of order from the –

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Alright, it is already a point of order. So, allow him to complete.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Proceed, hon. Member for Petauke.

 

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, let me also urge my fellow comrades that they should not take this as a political issue. We are supposed to unite as one to pray over this bad spirit which has attacked our country through suicides and accidents. I am sure this a very bad spirit.

 

Laughter

 

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, the day before yesterday, we lost a seven year old child through suicide –

 

Mr Mposha: On a point of procedure.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of procedure is raised.

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I rise on a serious point of procedure under Standing Order No. 56 –

Mr Mutale: There is no point of procedure.

 

Madam Speaker: Can we have some order!

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, Standing Order No. 56 states as follows:

 

“Precedence of Presiding Officers

 

1. When the presiding officer rises during debate or interrupts debate, a member who is speaking or indicating to speak, shall sit down and allow the presiding officer to address the House.”

 

Madam Speaker, for the sake of the dignity of this House, I noticed that when you interrupted and you were guiding, the speaker on the Floor, the hon. Member of Parliament for Petauke, remained standing, contrary to this guidance. I seek your serious ruling as to whether an hon. Member of Parliament who has gone through serious orientation of Parliament should continue conducting business in that manner.

 

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member for Petauke was definitely out of order. When the presiding officer is calling the House to order or is making an observation, the hon. Member who is on the Floor should resume their seat until they are requested to speak again. So, I am sure the hon. Member for Petauke has taken note of that. It is a process. We are all learning.

 

Hon. Member for Petauke, proceed.

 

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, my apology over that incident. I am sure it is one  of spirits through the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation and we will pray over it.

 

Laughter

 

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, this issue is directed at the hon. Minister of Sport –

 

Interruptions

 

Mr. J. E. Banda: Sorry, Madam Speaker, it is directed to the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics.

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: I understand the confusion. I think it is because we do not have a religious affairs ministry now.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: So the hon. Member is not sure who to direct that question at.

 

Hon. Members, on the issue of prayers, I think what we need to do is to engage ourselves quietly on the sides and see who can render those prayers. Prayers are needed and I know there are several pastors in this House. We can engage several Christian organisations that can render prayers, so that this issue can be addressed. I am sure everybody is concerned about what is happening in the country, but we can also pray on our own, apart from waiting for people to pray for us.

 

So, hon. Member for Petauke, that is a very good point that you have brought up. I think it is something that needs to be reflected upon and I know through this medium, the churches are listening. So, if the members of churches are listening, I am sure they can be able to use their initiative to be proactive and pray for the nation of Zambia.

 

_______

 

 

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

 

EVACUATION OF ZAMBIAN NATIONALS FROM UKRAINE

 

The Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation (Mr Kakubo): Madam Speaker, I wish to, first of all, thank you for this opportunity to update the House on a matter of absolute importance and also to apprise the House on the measures that the Government has undertaken in order to ensure the safety and security as well as the evacuation of our nationals in Ukraine.

 

Madam Speaker, as this House may be aware, on 24^th February, 2022, following the unfortunate turn of events in Ukraine, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, President of the Republic of Zambia, directed that our nationals are evacuated. This was preceded by a physical assessment that was carried out by our mission and embassy in Moscow on 17^th February, 2022. The staff at our embassy took stock, engaged and advised the Zambian community of the necessary precautionary security measures that had to be undertaken.

 

Madam Speaker, following that assessment and directive from the President, a detailed evacuation plan was put in place by the relevant arms of Government and they included the following:

 

1. creation of a media platform by the embassy where all Zambians in Ukraine were encouraged to join. This platform has been providing our nationals with the relevant up-to-date information and a strategy for their evacuation;
2. securing of a plane in Warsaw, Poland, by the Government in order to transport safely our nationals, following the closure of public transport and airports in Ukraine;
3. establishment of a rendezvous point in a city called Lviv on the Western side of Ukraine;
4. process of planning the movement of our nationals from Lviv towards the Polish border in Hrebenne;
5. the embassy in Moscow has been painstakingly coordinating the movement of our nationals within Ukraine while our Zambian staff from the embassy in Berlin, Germany, has been stationed at the Polish border since last Saturday to receive our nationals. In addition, our honourary consul to Poland has been at the border since Friday to provide the much needed support to our nationals and also, to facilitate immigration procedures;
6. the Government also arranged for the waiver of visas for our nationals into Poland; and
7. those closer to the border with Russia are being coordinated and assisted by our staff in Moscow through our embassy in Russia.

 

Madam Speaker, as indicated in various statements issued by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation, specifically on 22^nd, 24^th, 26^th and 28^th February, 2022, we have 141 known Zambian nationals in Ukraine. Out of this number, twenty-seven have opted to remain in Ukraine having integrated in that society over many years. Therefore, those of our nationals scheduled for evacuation come to a total of 114.

 

Madam Speaker, certainly the Zambian Government has evacuated so far out of Ukraine, eighty of our nationals who are accommodated in a conducive facility in Warsaw, Poland, where the Government has also ensured the provision of warm food and other necessities to our nationals.

 

Madam Speaker, most of these Zambian nationals are students. Therefore, our students were being evacuated, first of all, out of Lviv, where the Government organised buses, which took them to the border at Hrebenne. All our nationals have been facilitated to the border safely following the waiver of visas.

Madam Speaker, I must mentioned that a few of our students have also been evacuated through other countries, including Romania and Hungary. Our staff has been on hand to guide students who have moved through other countries on their own accord. We have five of our nationals who have opted not to register for evacuation and they have found their way into Romania.

 

Madam Speaker, of our nationals yet to be evacuated, one national is still in Lviv as at two hours ago and is being guided on how to directly make his way to Warsaw by our team. Three are in a city called Kharkiv and arrangements remain in place by the Zambian Government to facilitate their safe evacuation. The three students are safe and our staff is in consultant communication with them to monitor their wellbeing and safety.

 

Madam Speaker, fourteen of our nationals are still in transit from different parts of Ukraine. We are constantly in touch with them. We are also monitoring their movements to ensure safe passage for them in anticipation of their evacuation to Zambia.

 

Madam Speaker, we have an addition of fourteen who are still in the city called Sumy, which is located on the Western side of Ukraine and very close to the Russian border. Unfortunately, I must mention that this is a high-risk area. As things are, the city of Sumy is still surrounded by Russian troops. The Zambian Government has continued to engage the Government of the Russian Federation to quest the assistance to facilitate the safe passage of its nationals through Russia. Our staff in Moscow has ascertained the wellbeing of our fourteen students. We have established that they are well, they have warm food, and that water is being provided to them.

 

Madam Speaker, I wish also to mention that the situation in Ukraine has been a very difficult and complex process that the Government has been dealing with.  We have been faced with a number of challenges, some of which I now highlight.

 

Our nationals who have opted not to use transport that has been organised by the Zambian Government have endured some challenges. Some of them were dropped 20 km from the border and some them slept on the way. It also resulted that they had to walk the stretch of 20 km before meeting our staff at the border.

Madam Speaker, may I also mention that there are multiple security check points that our people have had to endure before getting to the border.

 

Madam Speaker, Ukrainian officials have also been giving priority to the elderly, women and children. This has resulted into our male children, our nationals having to endure longer waiting times at the border, which sometimes, like I have mentioned Madam Speaker, has resulted into them sleeping at the border.

 

Madam Speaker, further, we have also noticed that parents and guardians are giving contradictory guidance to the children on how to leave Ukraine. We would like to take this opportunity to urge them to strictly follow the safe route that the Government is providing.

 

Madam Speaker, may I also reassure the House, that the Zambian Government will continue to work round the clock and tirelessly, to ensure that our nationals are evacuated and brought back home safely.

 

Madam Speaker, all things being equal, we intend to fly our children into Lusaka, tentatively by Friday, 4^th March, 2022, which is this week. Parents and guardians of our children are again strongly urged to ensure that all the children who have been secured by the Government board the plane and no alternative arrangements should be made.

 

Madam Speaker, this Government will not only evacuate our nationals back home, but also, take this opportunity to assure parents that the Government will also facilitate the return of these children back to Ukraine in order for them to finish their education process, once Ukraine is normalised and is a safe haven. 

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! 

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation.

 

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, the United States of America (USA) intelligence service, including the Pentagon, had warmed that there was an imminent attack from Russia. As Zambia, we moved at a snail’s pace to evacuate our people from Ukraine. What measures is the Government going to take to ensure that it evacuates its nationals from conflict zones in future?

 

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, in Ukraine, there is a war situation. In a war situation, there are many complexities that happen and situations change in the spur of the moment. The fact that countries within Southern African Development Community (SADC) have been reaching out to the Government of Zambia for support, in order for them to ride on the procedures that it has put in place, that have ensured that more than 50, 70 and 80 per cent of its own nationals are evacuated, means that it has done things the right way. SADC has been commending the Zambian Government through some of the commentaries that we have seen on the international media.

 

Madam Speaker, based on the information that we had, not only from the USA but also, our own intelligence system, we believe that we have been able to do very well. Therefore, we want to assure the House that each and every Zambian who has enlisted to be brought back home, we will reach out to them. The Government is available and will bring them back home.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Speaker, instead of keeping the students in hotels, in Poland for a few more days, is it not cheaper to send our own planes, like the Zambia Airways and the Zambia Air Force (ZAF) planes to get them?

 

Laughter

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, we considered many opinions including the one the hon. Member has spoken to. We have instead chosen the safest and quickest possible route without too many connections.

 

Madam Speaker, as you know, our children have endured a very stressful situation. We believe that the best way to bring them back home is a route that we have chosen which has no stopovers along the way. We want them to come straight to their families to receive psychosocial counseling with our full support.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, I hope the hon. Minister could often come to the House with ministerial statements, especially on the President’s travels relating to trade and investments.

 

Madam Speaker, following what Hon. Mtayachalo said, economies that are strong like Britain, Germany and the United States of America (USA), two weeks before the invasion, advised their citizens to travel and they made it very clear that they were not going to be involved in evacuating them. Why did it have to take the Government to act now? In fact, the Government acted when the war or the invasion had actually started. Why did the Government delay when the meetings that it attends at global level do support the international intelligence system?

 

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, I understand the concern and apprehension of the hon. Member for Kantanshi, suffice to mention that from the time we began the evacuation process, we have been ahead of all African countries. I think it is important to take note of that. The assumption to say that the Zambian Government was needlessly delaying in the process of evacuating its citizens is not correct. I would like to take this opportunity to assure the House again, to say that the Zambian Government acted on time. We have not lost any lives. We have a system in place that is efficient and the number of evacuations that we have do so far can attest to that fact. There is no African country that is ahead of us. We trust our system and we believe that the system is working and is efficient.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, since the end of World War II, the world has invested heavily in peace. The actions by Russia are outrageous and unreasonable. Every well-meaning country must stand and condemn those actions. That said, I want to commend the hon. Minister and his team. I think what he has explained here is a commendable effort so far.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, that is war between two countries and it seems like we are tilted towards supporting those who are in Ukraine. While it appears that the people who are in Russia may not be affected by war itself, from where I stand and following the proceedings of this war, the people who are in Russia stand also to be affected particularly, from the sanctions that are being imposed on Russia. Has the Government given it a thought as to the well-being of the people who are in Russia?

 

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, I share the views of the hon. Member who has just asked a question. I am glad to inform the House through that question that we issued a statement three days ago. I had a press conference at Charter House, Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation, where we encouraged our own nationals who are in Moscow and other parts of Russia, to begin to make voluntary movements while logistics are still in place; while the roads are still open; and while the airspace across Russia is still open.

 

Madam Speaker, we want to take this opportunity again to encourage Zambians who have capacity to move to do so. Further, should the situation in Moscow, which we have a keen eye on, reduce in terms of security, again, the Zambian Government has already started the process of taking stock of how many Zambians are there. Already, in our books, we have about 600 Zambians who are registered with our mission in Moscow. Should the situation get out of hand, the Government will reach out to them.

Madam Speaker, needless to mention that we have the responsibility, not to only to Zambians who are inland, but to every Zambian who is on the globe regardless of where they are. As the Government, in addition to all the encouragement that we giving Zambians to move, we will still reach out to them and make sure that they are evacuated. It is a huge concern. This is a serious situation that we are in and tensions are high. We want to ensure that every Zambia takes this call very seriously.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that parents are getting desperate and we can understand them because we are all listening to the cable news network (CNN). On Monday, there was a young Zambian lady, who, speaking to a British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) correspondent, shared her ordeal and that of others.

 

Madam Speaker, in the hon. Minister’s submission, he gave an impression as though the Government had put in measures in Ukraine, which are being used by our children to get to the border. If that was true, how then did these children end up walking more than 20 km? It means they had no means. If there were means that the hon. Minister is alluding to, that were put by the Government, certainly, there could have been a pick up point like the hon. Minister said, Rendezvous in Lviv, which seems true to be there.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government’s mission in Moscow should have done a situation analysis that would have informed it to move in much earlier before the tension escalated. What is the Government doing about it? Could the hon. Minister give us a clear scenario of what is happening, which can comfort the parents because what they are getting from the news networks is the same? I know that there are South African students who are equally trapped there. It appears there are no means in Ukraine that are helping these children to get to the Ukraine-Poland Border. 

 

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, the assumptions that are being made by the senior hon. Member are incorrect. It is not correct to assume that the Zambian Government has no system in Ukraine. Our numbers speak to that. Without speaking too much to the intelligence information that we are using inside Ukraine, we have a pick up point at Lviv and most of our students have used it. We can account for each one of them, and our numbers, as far as we are concerned, are accurate. We have a pick up point at Lviv and the Zambian Government has ensured that there are buses funded by it ...

 

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Kakubo: ... and these buses –

 

Mr Kampyongo interjected.

 

Madam Speaker: Order! Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, do you want to answer the question instead?

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: Let us allow the hon. Minister to answer and then we can ask other questions.

 

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, yes, we had an incident where the first few were affected in the maze of the war before our system was firmly established and put in place. After that, the majority of our students have been picked up by the Zambian Government facilities like the buses that have been set up in that country. Further to that, even when they get to the border, we have our own staff who are facilitating immigration processes for them to ensure that they crossover. When they crossover, they find shelter. From there, we are transporting all our Zambian nationals to Warsaw, where they are being kept comfortably and everything is being facilitated and paid for by the Zambian Government. Yes, the first few students were affected but after that, the Government acted very quickly. I can advise the hon. Member to check the facts that we are sharing ...

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kakubo: ... and he will find that this Government is on firm grounds on this issue. Like I have said, our numbers can show. We are the highest in Africa as to how many of our Zambian nationals are out there. We will continue to focus on those who are still inland in Ukraine to ensure that we account for their safe evacuation as well.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has mentioned that there is a pick up point in Lviv. How are these students managing to move from other towns to Lviv?

 

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, without endangering the lives of our nationals, especially the fourteen who are in transit, I am reluctant to share publicly on how we are moving with them.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kakubo: However, I just want to assure the hon. Member of Parliament for Chitambo that we are in constant touch with our nationals, and we can account for each of the individuals in terms of numbers. We are in touch with our nationals and we know where they are. Where there are train openings, we will move them, but I am reluctant to go into the details of the execution of our plan.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Just wondering why the hon. Member of Parliament for Petauke did not include Ukraine on issues that need to be prayed for.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that Zambia is among the first countries in Africa that have put up systems to ensure that nationals are evacuated. 

 

If indeed that is true, why has it taken so long for those students to reach the Polish Border from Kyiv or Lviv? There are students who have indicated that they are being dropped kilometers away from the border. Why are they being dropped there? How many days does it take for buses from Kyiv or Lviv to reach the Polish Border? The intelligence warnings were given about two to three weeks ago by the United States and the Western world and Zambia was the first one to start.

 

Madam Speaker: Let us try not to repeat questions. Let us ask questions which are new.

 

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, at the expense of repeating what I have already said to the House, Ukraine is in a war situation and there have been too many disruptions. Public transport is not readily available. The airspace and the airports are closed. We are doing our best under those circumstances. As I have assured the House, the process is ongoing. We are actively working around the clock to ensure that every one of our citizens comes out of that place.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, my question has been overtaken by events.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutale: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order has been raised.

 

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order No. 206, the dress code of an hon. Member of Parliament is well described. I am getting worried when I look at the hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources because his suit is elegant and nice.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mutale: Is he in order to come to this House with an elegant suit which is not prescribed here? I need your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: I think he was admiring the hon. Minister’s suit.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mwila (Mufulira): Madam Speaker, we have been hearing from the international news channels that the Government of Ukraine is discouraging men aged between eighteen and sixty from leaving the country, but instead, take up arms to join in defence of that country. Is the hon. Minister aware of any Zambian men in Ukraine who have heeded to this call and have picked up arms to help defend that country?

 

Madam Speaker: I am sure the hon. Member for Mufulira would like to volunteer.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, we are not aware of any Zambians who have volunteered.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation indicated the numbers of people who are scattered all of over, which means that the Government has information at its fingertips. The people of Chilubi are interested in knowing the sex and age distribution because in distress situations such as war, the way children, the old and females would react is beyond the provision of water and food, as the hon. Minister has called it, warm food. The hon. Minister talked about having three to fourteen nationals here and there. What is the sex distribution and age range of our nationals?

 

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, I would like to assure the hon. Member that we have the name of each child out there. We have copies of their passports to ensure their evacuation is successful. If the hon. Member really needs this information, it can be availed to him in order for him to see the gender of the children who we are evacuating. However, I just want to assure him that we have all the information. Even just to evacuate them, we have had to process certain things for them. We know who our children are.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chilubi, you are encouraged to go and visit the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation for more details.

 

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, does the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation have any records of undocumented Zambian citizens in Ukraine and Russia? If so, how do they hope to help them?

 

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, there could be pockets of Zambians who have not registered with our missions. The ones whom we can confirm that we are aware of are those who have registered voluntarily with our missions. Amongst those who have registered, like I mentioned in my statement, some have opted not to be evacuated for reasons that they have integrated in the society there. Some of them are married and that is the extent to which we know our Zambians who are in Ukraine and Russia.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga): Madam Speaker, we appreciate the effort that the Government, through the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation, is making towards that issue. Is there any collaboration between the hon. Minister’s office and the parents to the students who are in Ukraine?

 

Rev. Katuta: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member on the Floor of the House in order to be speaking without following the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) guidelines? He is not wearing his mask.

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, let us make sure that we stick to the guidelines. The Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) is still with us. I actually thought it was the new moustache and beard style. I could not see properly from here.

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Mwinilunga, proceed.

 

Mr Samakayi: I thought I rendered my question.

 

Madam Speaker: Oh, it is the hon. Minister who is supposed to answer.

 

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, I want to assure the hon. Member for Mwinilunga that we are in touch with the parents. I have met some of them personally at Charter House, where we have sat down in our boardroom and strategised together. We have a platform where communication is concentrated on the families affected, which are the students and parents. My team and I have been having telephone conversations with parents.

 

Madam Speaker, perhaps I could take this chance to mention that this evening, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, President of the Republic of Zambia, is going to have an interface via Zoom with the children who are in Poland. This is the level of commitment that we require from a Head of State. Apart from just evacuating them, the President will speak to the children to encourage them and their families to be strong and also, to thank them for their bravery.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: I know the ministerial statement has attracted a lot of interest, but we have an Order Paper that we have to go through. I will just allow two more questions. Please do not complain if you are left out.

 

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for clarifying the issue in Ukraine. I commend the Government through the Ministry of Home Affairs and International Co-operations for the effort that it is doing to ensure our little ones who are in so much trauma, come back home in a safe state. Has the Government been able to learn or pick one or two lessons from the Ukraine and Russia war for future reference or guidance?

 

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, this Government exists for the people because it was formed by the people. On that score alone, lessons have been learnt and the Government like any institution that means well for its own people that employed it, will continue to improve. Lessons have been picked up that an evacuation of this nature can be very complicated and it is not a perfect execution. Lessons have been learnt and we will continue to improve.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Samakayi: On a point of order, Madam. 

 

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member for Mwinilunga wants to raise a point of order and because of this point of order, I am not calling any other hon. Member to ask a question. He will be the last one.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, she has corrected the issue I was about to raise. She was barefoot (pointing at Rev. Katuta).

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: She was what?

 

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, she was barefoot.

 

Madam Speaker: You can see her legs from there?

 

Laughter

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

 

PROCUREMENT OF BEDS AND FURNITURE FOR LUNDAZI HOSPITALS

 

245. Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi) asked the Minister of Health:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to procure beds and furniture for the old and new Lundazi District Hospitals; and
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented. 

 

The Minister of Information and Media (Ms Kasanda) (on behalf of the Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo)): Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to procure beds and furniture for health facilities countrywide, including the old and the new Lundazi District Hospitals. The implementation of the plans to procure beds and furniture for Lundazi is expected to be done in the third quarter of 2022.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you

 

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, I love the way the hon. Minister has responded to say it is the Government’s intention to procure beds and furniture for the old and the new hospitals in Lundazi. I was born in Lundazi Hospital and I get worried when I hear the hon. Minister say, “The old and the new hospitals.” I was not going to be worried if that hospital was going to provide a facility to Hon. Anthony Mumba.

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Lumezi, please let us not waste time. Let us ask questions which are for the benefit of the people of Lumezi and other citizens of Zambia, who are listening to this debate. Your issues with Hon. Anthony Mumba, I thought you had already cleared them. Please, proceed and ask a precise question.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I thank you for your guidance. Is the Government aware that the beddings that are being utilised in the new Lundazi District Hospital are those that were removed from the old Lundazi District Hospital since that hospital is in a dilapidated state?

 

Ms Kasanda: Madam Speaker, I am not aware but we will investigate the matter.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, the situation in Lundazi is desperate. Women have to wait to deliver from one delivery bed. It is not something that can wait until the third quarter as it is being said. It would have been well if hon. Minister saw that situation since she was supposed to be in Lundazi. I do not want my people in Lundazi to start blaming the Government of the day. My prayer is that the Government should consider the case for Lundazi as an urgent one.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Lundazi, I would encourage you to get in touch with the hon. Minister of Health and discuss that matter further. This is because from the previous questions that were asked, she indicated that hon. Members should engage her to see what the Government can do where there is an emergent situation. I am just passing on the message.

 

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, I wish to find out from the acting Minister of Finance and National Planning because going by her response, she will provide the much –

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kasenengwa, the question is not for the acting hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. The question is directed to the hon. Minister of Health and the hon. Minister of Information and Media is responding on behalf of the hon. Minister of Health.

 

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, I am obliged. Maybe I am thinking of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning because I am so broke.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, has the hon. Minister taken stock to find out how many clinics and hospitals need beds and beddings for her to say that the Government will procure beds for the clinics in the concern constituency and other areas? I can assure the hon. Minister that this problem is everywhere. Kasenengwa is also in dire need of beds and beddings. If she goes to Chizenge Clinic in Kasenengwa, it is a sorry site because people sleep on the floor. Has the hon. Minister taken stock of how much material and other requirements are needed for these clinics, particularly, beds and beddings?

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

The manner in which the question has been asked, it appears there will be need for the hon. Minister of Health to render a mistrial statement on this matter. Since the question only relates to Lundazi, let us restrict the supplementary questions to Lundazi so that the hon. Minister is given an opportunity to answer accurately. If we open it too wide, the hon. Minister will be taken by surprise and will not be able to address the issue. Hon. Minister of Information and Media, are you able to answer that question?

 

Ms Kasanda: Madam Speaker, yes.

 

Madam Speaker: Proceed.

 

Ms Kasanda: Madam Speaker, we are all aware that the immediate past regime had neglected all the hospitals, countrywide.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Kasanda: Madam Speaker, in that regard, the New Dawn Government has taken stock of the new and old hospitals that need this furniture. That is why from my response that I had earlier alluded to, it is very clear that the Government is going to procure furniture for both the new and old hospitals because we have taken an audit.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

 Mr Twasa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, I am standing here raising a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 134, matter of urgent public importance.

 

Hon. Members: Ah!

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kasenengwa, are you new in this House?

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: Resume your seat.

 

Mr Twasa resumed his seat.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kasenengwa, we always have the order of proceedings. The matter that you are raising has already been attended to. I am sure you might have come in a bit late. That matter cannot be admitted at this time.

 

Mr Twasa: I am obliged, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Now, I do not even know who was on the Floor.

Laughter

 

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I reluctantly rise on a point of order citing Standing Order No. 65(1)(b).

 

Madam Speaker, our colleagues, the hon. Ministers, must understand that they have a responsibility to respond to questions accurately and factually, as they are putting them. We have lamented in the past few days that our hon. Colleagues need to take matters of governance seriously and that they must understand the principle of –

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Kampyongo: That is why you are disappointing the President.

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Members, let us listen to the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu. Right now, he is the one holding the Floor.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Thank you, Madam Speaker, for your protection.

 

Madam Speaker, our hon. Colleagues must understand the principle of perpetual succession. Is the Acting hon. Minister of Health in order to veer off from the question that has been posed to her and mislead the nation about the previous Government that she has talked about, that even built so many hospitals that are yet to be furnished and left a lot of drugs? Is she in order to draw the previous Government into her answer in the manner she has done instead of answering the questions as they are put to her and as they appear on the Order Paper?

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious guidance.

 

Madam Speaker: The question that was asked was a loaded question and the answer was loaded. Since even the point of order is trying to draw us into some political debate, we will not allow that political debate to consume the House. The hon. Minister answered according to the question that was given to her in her opinion. So, let us avoid questions which attract answers which are loaded, for lack of a better word. Let us make progress.

 

Mr Nyambose (Chasefu): Madam Speaker, you may wish to note that Lundazi is the anchor for Chasefu and Lumezi because when we are faced with challenges of health, we rush to Lundazi. Is the Government considering expediting the furnishing of the two hospitals in Lundazi?

 

Madam Speaker, I also want to take this opportunity to state the fact –

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, just one question per hon. Member is allowed. We have other hon. Members who also want to ask questions.

 

Ms Kasanda: Madam Speaker, I think I already answered that question the hon. Member has asked. We have K25.7 million Constituency Development Fund (CDF) that has been allocated to every constituency, which can also be utilised.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, I know you have given guidance, but before I pose my question, let me say that sometimes in life, we should take responsibility. For example, when my friend fails to lead, I will be elected to lead and manage issues of the country. The failures were booted out on the promise that this Government was going to deliver. So, it is important for the hon. Ministers on the right to see to it that they deliver.

 

Madam Speaker, I am asking a very simple question. I am happy that the hon. Minister has promised to furnish Nyimba District Hospital. Is the hon. Minister aware of the status of the old Lundazi Hospital before we talk about putting new furniture or beds in that hospital? Does she have any report concerning that hospital? If so, why do they want to put new furniture in a finished or old building that needs total renovation?

 

Ms Kasanda: Madam Speaker, yes, we are aware, and the Government is concerned about that hospital. In my previous answer, I mentioned that hospitals were neglected and Lundazi Hospital is one of them. We have plans to rehabilitate that hospital just like we are doing, countrywide.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

MINERAL EXPLORATION LICENCES ISSUED FROM 2010 TO 2020

 

246. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

 

1. how many companies were issued with exploration licences countrywide from 2010 to 2020;
2. what the companies were exploring for; 
3. how many explorations were successful as of October, 2021; and
4. what the findings at (c), were.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: There is a lot of noise in the House. If you want to consult, do it quietly or go outside, if you cannot whisper. This is disturbing me and I will not be able to follow the proceedings.

 

The Minister of Water Development and Sanitation (Mr Mposha) (on behalf of the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Kabuswe): Madam Speaker, the number of companies issued with exploration licences from 2010 to 2020 was 2,361. The companies were exploring for the following minerals:

 

1. Base metals (copper and manganese);
2. Gemstones (emeralds, amethyst and tourmalines);
3. Industrial minerals (limestone, gravel and sand, among others);
4. Precious minerals (gold and silver); and
5. Energy minerals (coal and uranium).

 

Madam Speaker, 922 companies were successful as at October, 2021. The findings at question (c) were in respect to the major mineral resources defined as follows:

 

1. base metal;
2. gemstones;
3. industrial minerals;
4. precious minerals; and
5. energy minerals.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, could the hon. Minister give us the names of areas or locations where these companies did the mineral exploration and had positive results?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I am not able to specify which areas but suffice it to say that these were widespread around the country.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, there has been an attitude were people, on the pretext of exploring, end up mining illegally. Out of the numbers that the hon. Minister has given us, how sure is he that these have just been explorations? Have we had any cases of illegal mining on that list?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, human beings are complicated and indeed, there is a possibility that people move in on the pretext that they are exploring and begin to go beyond what they were permitted to do. However, I just want to assure the hon. Member of Parliament for Nalolo that the ministry is on top of things to ensure that people adhere to what they have been permitted to do in this case, explorations.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members on the far right. Is it possible for you to go and consult outside or otherwise, do it quietly, please.

 

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, my question has been taken by hon. Member for Nalolo. However, I want to urge the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development to take Hon. Wamunyima’s concerns seriously.

Madam Speaker, in Kasenengwa, there is a road contractor who left a huge tunnel at one of the points where he was getting gravel. One would wonder whether that contractor was looking for gravel or mining ...

 

Laughter

 

Mr Twasa: ... because that tunnel is deep. Each time those white people were blasting, they would send all the local workers away, and remain on their own. I am sorry I have used racial connotations. I meant the investors so to say, or the contractors.

 

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

 

This is time for supplementary questions and not debate.

 

Mr Chisanga (Lukashya): Madam Speaker, of those companies that were given exploration licences, how many were local companies? How many were international or foreign companies?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, currently, I do not have the detailed specifications in terms of how many were local and foreign companies. However, I am available to engage the hon. Member of Parliament later with those details.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, the statistics that the hon. Minister gave on the people who were given exploration licences showed that they were 2000 plus. What is the ministry doing in order to audit some of these licences so that at least, we can have a reasonable number? The violation of those licences by people who end up mining has made it difficult for the Government to control the situation. Is the ministry considering taking stock of those licences so that it can have well-established people on the ground to monitor those activities?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, let me take advantage of that question to inform the hon. Member of Parliament and indeed, this House that actually, the ministry is currently undertaking an audit to ascertain the status of the various licences which were issued for explorations. That is to also, establish how many were dormant among those that were issued and also, just to ascertain the issues of compliancy with the view that after the audit, licences could be given to those who would deserve them. 

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, mining is the backbone of our economy and it is disturbing to hear so many reports of all the illegal mining activities which are taking place when we are trying to put our economy back its rails. After the 900 successful explorations by those companies, has the Government taken interest to assess the actual mineral value that has been found in these exploration works that have taken place so that the wealth can be known exactly?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Member for Kantanshi for that very good question. Like I said, the ministry is undertaking an audit which will also, encompass the point that has been raised by the hon. Member of Parliament to take stock of the mineral value. Madam Speaker, a number of companies that were successful in the exploration could have found the minerals but maybe, the issue of quantity versus value, was also another point. However, through the audit that we are undertaking, we hope that we can take care of the aspect of establishing the mineral value. Should need be, that information can be brought to the House.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, the response from the hon. Minister is encouraging. Like the hon. Member for Kantanshi, I also want to say that the 922 exploration company that were successful indicate economically, that it is a mean of empowering the Zambian economy. After having those 922 successful explorations, how much time do we expect to have full implementation of the licences that will lead to the mining of some of these minerals?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I want to assure this august House that this process will be undertaken within the shortest possible time. We are mindful of the fact that Zambians in this sector, have been raising a number of complaints, some of which border on a lot of licences that have been issued and are just being kept. Our view as a ministry is to quicken the audit process so that we can get back to those who would want to acquire the licences and utilise them. In so doing, the country can derive wealth from the mining activities.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Malambo (Magoye): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for those good answers. The hon. Minister may be aware that those licences have been held by individuals for a long period of time. How long can an individual hold a licence?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Magoye for that question. It is true that many people have been holding these licences for a long time. After the audit, Madam Speaker, we should also be able to review the time one should hold a licence. As to whether they have been utilising those licences or not, for now, I am not in a position to definitely, tell how long one has to hold a licence.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister categorising base minerals, precious minerals and other categories. My interest mainly is to find out the Government’s position on the selling of emeralds within Zambia and whether that position has been upheld.

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I seek your guidance and protection. I see that there has been a diversion from the main question. That does not sound like really a follow-up question.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Okay, thank you.

Hon. Member, ask another question in relation to this, if you have any other follow-up question.

 

Mr Mwila: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mwila: Madam Speaker, I rise pursuant to Standing Order 171 (2). This is bordering on the fairness and impartiality of the functioning of your Committees. You may be aware that various Committees have been sitting and one of those has been the Public Accounts Committee (PAC). Among the issues that PAC is looking at is the procurement of Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) supplies, which were procured by the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) in the previous Government.

 

Madam Speaker, it is in public domain that your Committee has summoned the suppliers of the COVID-19 supplies to come and answer some queries. Now, information has emerged that among the companies that have been summoned to appear before your Committee is one linked to the current chairperson of your Committee.

 

Madam Speaker, I seek your ruling if the current chairperson of this very important Committee is in order to continue chairing it, knowing very well that one of the companies, which is linked to him will soon be appearing before it to answer some of the very pertinent questions that have been raised.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Mufulira, as you know, we are not privy to what is happening in that Committee. You have just raised the issue. It needs to be investigated. So, I will reserve my ruling on that matter until after conducting a thorough investigation on what is going on in that Committee. I will render a ruling at a later date.

 

Mr Kasandwe handed over newspapers to Mr Mwila.

 

Madam Speaker: Can we proceed with our business.

 

Mr Mwila: Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence if I can lay the papers that are carrying the story I referred to before you.

 

Madam Speaker: Please, do lay them on the Table.

 

Mr Mwila laid the newspapers on the Table.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Thank you. Let us make progress. Do not tempt me to make a comment.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Lumezi an opportunity to ask the hon. Minister who is acting on behalf of the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development a question. Madam Speaker, Lumezi is a mineral wealth constituency. If anything, Lumezi should be the richest constituency in the Eastern Province because there is gold, malachite and quartz. We equally have the tourism aspect that has just not been tapped. I know that the hon. Minister, due to lack of seriousness here, he will labour to answer my question because –

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Lumezi, there are several other hon. Members –

 

Hon. UPND Member: Question!

 

Madam Speaker: Please, resume your seat.

 

Hon. UPND Member: How can you demean the hon. Minister?

 

Madam Speaker: There are so many other hon. Members who would want to ask questions. Just ask a direct question. It is not up to you to start evaluating …

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: …the answers that have been given. So, just ask your follow-up question and then we make process.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, sincerity breeds character. Not too long ago, we saw the hon. Minister in a stadium on the Copperbelt handing over some mines. Is the hon. Minister in a position to tell this honourable House how many politically exposed persons have been granted those licences?

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Lumezi, thank you very much. Please do put in your own question addressed to the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development, then you will be answered sufficiently.

 

Mr E. Tembo (Feira): Madam Speaker, it has been made clear that through exploration, wealth is stolen from this country. I want to find out from the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development whether in granting these exploration licences, we have a system to do the follow ups or plans to introduce time limit in order to avoid these resources from being stolen? We have learnt that in the guise of exploration, a lot of wealth has left this country.

 

Madam Speaker: What was your direct question? Please come out clearly.

 

Mr E. Tembo: Madam Speaker, do we have any plans to limit the period because there are companies exploring even for fifty years.

Madam Speaker: So your question is, “Does the ministry have limitations on the period of exploration?”

 

Mr E. Tembo: Madam Speaker, do they have plans to introduce limitations?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, through the many activities that have taken place in the past, and also, the many complaints that we have been received, many lessons have been learnt. We want to assure our citizens that after the audit which is currently going on, measures will be put in place to ensure that Zambians are not exploited any more by those who get licences and went to do wrong things. 

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Jamba (Mwembezhi): Madam Speaker, the issue of the audit is a very important undertaking in Zambia. We hear that one of the officers at the cadastre unit has run away with keys for almost a month now. How is that audit going to yield the desired results if people who are mandated to operate at the cadastre are running away with keys?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I will not speculate but engage my brother, the hon. Member outside this House, so that probably, I can benefit from the information he is providing to the House. Thereafter, as a ministry, we can take necessary actions.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

MEASURES TAKEN TO ATTRACT AND RETAIN ELECTRICAL ENGINEERS AT ZESCO

 

 247. Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North) asked the Minister of Energy what measures the Government is taking to attract and retain experienced electrical engineers at ZESCO Limited, to prevent brain drain.

 

The Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala): Madam Speaker, ZESCO Limited currently has 318 electrical engineers and has in the recent past, received a number of applications from electrical engineers, wishing to join the organisation from within the country and the sub-region. This is attributed to the company’s favourable competitive conditions of service.

 

Madam Speaker, in addition, the Government has ensured that the company creates a robust talent management system that offers numerous opportunities for career progression, exposure and growth. This is achieved through programmes such as the graduate development programmes.

 

Madam Speaker, the wide range of departments in the company’s value chain also offer good exposure to electrical engineers leading to job satisfaction. Further, an overall restructuring of ZESCO Limited is ongoing. This will ensure optimal staff placement of electrical into appropriate positions. ZESCO Limited has embarked on a strategy to employ experienced electrical engineers locally and in the diaspora.

 

Madam Speaker, I would like to assure this august House and the nation that ZESCO Limited will continue to sustain measures such as favourable conditions of service to attract and retain electrical engineers in the company for effective, efficient and excellent service to its customers.

 

Madam Speaker, I should add that in the recent past, ZESCO Limited has seen about eight electrical engineers separate from the company for various reasons like, voluntary separation.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, I stand here as a very sad person, coming from the trade union movement, because what is happening at ZESCO Limited is very unfortunate. Why do I ask this question? I am aware that more than forty workers who include the senior management and junior workers have been retired in national interest in the last seven months without legitimate grounds.

 

Madam Speaker, this country has lost a lot of electrical engineers who are now working in the diaspora because every time there is a new Government or new Managing Director (MD), experienced young engineers are being retired.

 

Madam Speaker, is the New Dawn Government going to accord the people who have been retired in national interest without legitimate grounds to be equally be heard and reinstated, if it is established that they were merely victimised? We cannot have a situation where whichever power utility company you go to in Africa, there are engineers from ZESCO Limited who are working there. 

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I thought I came to this august House to answer a question as to how ZESCO Limited is going to retain electrical engineers and not to get involved in human resource management issues.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: The problem of loaded questions.

 

Mr Jamba: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, it has now been six months since we took over the Government as the United Party for National Development (UPND). We have been very consistent. There has been no victimisation. People have not been retired in national interest –

 

Mr Chisanga: Which Standing Order No.?

 

Mr Jamba: I will be quoting it. Just wait.

Madam Speaker, we have never retired people in national interest. We have never victimised those people we know were members of the Patriotic Front (PF) and were stealing. We know those who are still PF in the Government, but we have not done anything. Is the hon. Member for Chama North in order to mislead himself, the House and the nation that some people were retired in national interest? Who was retired?

 

Madam Speaker, I seek a serious ruling.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, let us not be drawn into political debate in the House. Let us tackle the issues that are before us without engaging in political debate. So that point of order is not allowed. Let us get back to the business of the day.

 

Mr Chibombwe (Bahati) Madam Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chama North has raised a very serious issue which deserves good answers from the hon. Minister. Indeed, there is brain drain at ZESCO Limited. So many engineers have been forced to separate from the firm on political grounds and that is a known fact. Does the hon. Minister not think that the recalling of a man, who is now at the helm of ZESCO Limited, is causing a lot of retribution at ZESCO Limited, where new engineers are laid off and those who retired ten to fifteen years ago are being called back?

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, in my answer, I had indicated that only about eight electrical engineers have separated from the company. Therefore, if there are any other engineers who have been separated from the company for other reasons apart from the number that I have reported, the hon. Member is free to come to our office so that we can look at the figures that he is looking at and then we can harmonise.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Bahati, you are encouraged to go and visit the hon. Minister of Energy.

 

Mr Chibombwe: I am much obliged Madam Speaker. I will visit him and I hope he will not be emotional.

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: Okay! Thank you, hon. Member.

 

Mr Mundubile: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65. 

 

Madam Speaker, we are getting concerned. I think as the Leader of the Opposition, I have exercised patience with my hon. Colleagues on the right. When it comes to responding, the answers that we are getting are below par and it is unfortunate. We will not accept a situation whereby, when a question is put to an hon. Minister, he or she says, “Let the hon. Member come to my office and then we discuss.”

 

Hon. PF Members: No!

 

Mr Mundubile: The benefit that should be derived from the answer is for the public. So, secret or private answers will not be permissible.

 

Madam Speaker, we are in this House to serve the nation. Our friends on the right have taken over the Government and they must demonstrate that they are ready to govern. We will not sit here and watch hon. Ministers trivialise questions that are put to them. His Excellency the President has already put it to them that he is being let down by their performance. We will not sit here to allow them continue to underperform. I, therefore, put it to the hon. Members on the right that it is high time they pulled up their socks and begun to give answers as they are put to them. I seek your ruling, Madam Speaker.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: The hon. Minister was answering Question No. 247 and the hon. Member for Bahati was asking for extra information, which I believe the hon. Minister of Energy does not have. The hon. Member for Bahati has not provided information of who those people who have been terminated are. If he has that information, let him lay it on the Table, so that the hon. Minister is able to address that issue. So, if–

 

Mr Chibombwe rose.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Bahati, I have not called upon you. So just take your time. The hon. Minister has answered the question as put to him in Question No. 247. I believe the hon. Minister would not have the extra information at hand right now because now we are taking him by surprise.

 

So, hon. Member for Bahati, you might as well put in your own question, so that the hon. Minister is given adequate time to research and come back to this House and answer the question sufficiently.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I know hon. Ministers are heavily protected because questions are being blocked.

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Lumezi, please resume your seat. It is not up to you to evaluate the work of the presiding officer. As much as I appreciate that you have a right to ask questions, it is not up to you to assess what the presiding officer is doing. If I do not call on you next time, please do not complain. I have given you liberty, I have called on you to ask a question. You are not supposed to underrate me.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Nyimba.

 

Mr Menyani Zulu was not available.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Nalolo.

 

Mr Munir Zulu left the Assembly Chamber.

 

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, in his response, the hon. Minister has indicated that ZESCO Limited will undergo restructuring. The hon. Minister would agree with me that ZESCO Limited is one of those institutions that have been undergoing restructuring for the last ten years. What is the hon. Minister doing to stop the political interference of appointments even at the technical and professional level at ZESCO Limited?

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I am not aware that there are any political appointments going on at ZESCO Limited. If the hon. Member has such information, he can put it on the Table of the House so that everybody can have a look at it.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, in his report, the hon. Minister started that some foreign electrical engineers are also lining up for jobs at ZESCO Limited. I think Zambia is rated number one or two amongst countries with the best hydropower colleges in the Southern African Development Community (SADC) region, or should I say, the entire Africa. Do we have any foreign nationals doing electrical jobs at ZESCO Limited and if so, why?

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I am not aware that there are any expatriates working at ZESCO Limited, but if there are, I should be able to get back to the House and clarify that issue.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Energy has given us the number of electrical engineers who were separated from ZESCO Limited. The hon. Minister put it that they were ‘separated.’ Would the hon. Minister be in a position to tell us why the electrical engineers separated from ZESCO Limited other than allegations that they were fired in national interest?

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the information that I have is that some of the eight electrical engineers who were separated from ZESCO Limited, were on voluntary separation. I am not yet privy to how others were separated from ZESCO Limited, but I can get back to the House and give full details on how they were separated.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Speaker, could the hon. Minister confirm whether it is true, as alleged by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chama North, that the retirement of citizens in Zambia has continued to be in national interest. If so, when will this nation begin to heal?

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I have stated that I have not received any information whatsoever, suggesting that some of the people were separated from ZESCO Limited in public or national interest. I am yet to receive a report on that. If the hon. Minister has any information of anybody who was separated on those grounds, I would like to have a look at that report so that we can find a solution.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: It is the hon. Member instead of hon. Minister.

 

Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu): Madam Speaker, my question has been overtaken by events and I have since removed myself from the list.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Malambo (Magoye): Madam Speaker, everyone is aware that ZESCO Limited was politically used in different financial related activities. Has the hon. Minister seen any noticeable impact in the recent past due to these separations of the engineers?

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I have not seen any noticeable difference in the operations of ZESCO Limited since the separation of the eight electrical engineers that I indicated. If there is any, I can get back to the House and clarify further.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Speaker, everyone knows everything about ZESCO Limited and the issue of engineers who have left. Some people may say it was a political issue but, that as it may be, what is the hon. Minister doing to ensure that professional employees who are hired by ZESCO Limited are protected? When time for the United Party for National Development (UPND) to step down comes, whenever that will be, those who are employed now will remain in office regardless of which Government will take over. That way, ZESCO Limited will not be politicised and will remain professional.

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, ZESCO Limited recruitment is not based on political affiliations. Those engineers who are employed by ZESCO Limited go through internal adverts or adverts in the newspaper. All the engineers, as far as I am concerned, are professionals and will remain so.

 

Madam Speaker, maybe I should read the statement that I gave on ensuring that there is career progression. I said that the Government has ensured that the company creates a robust talent management system that offers numerous opportunities for career progression, exposure and growth. That should answer to how professional the engineers are at ZESCO Limited.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, when I speak, I speak from a well-informed position, having served as General Secretary for more than two terms at ZESCO Limited. Is it possible for the hon. Minister to come to this august House with a list of workers who have been retired at ZESCO Limited?

 

Hon. Government Members: Why?

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, is it possible that the hon. Minister can come with a list of those who have been retired and reasons for their separation?

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chama North, the best you could do is, if you are aware of that information, bring it to the House, lay it on the Table and ask the hon. Minister to explain. That will be the best way. Otherwise, we will be going in circles. One side will be saying their question has been answered and the other will be saying it has not been answered. Now we are speculating and from where I am sitting, I do not know anything that is happening at ZESCO Limited. It is very difficult to start speculating on those issues. The best is, when you have information, bring it and lay it on the Table. The hon. Minister will then be forced to give an explanation on what exactly is happening.

 

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Madam Speaker, I wish to ride on the question asked by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chama North. Will it be prudent for the hon. Minister to reduce the current temperatures and accusations on the Floor of the House by coming with a list of people who were retired from ZESCO Limited from 2011, when the Patriotic Front (PF) took over power, to date, so that we can really see the Government which was retiring people in national interest?

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Bweengwa, as I have directed before, if you have any specific questions relating to the issues that you are raising, please do submit your question and the hon. Minister will be able to answer. At the moment, by just asking whether the hon. Minister can or cannot do will not help. So, put in your question and then the hon. Minister will be given an opportunity to answer it.

 

CONSTRUCTION OF YETA SCHOOL OF NURSING

 

248. Mr Kangombe (Sesheke) asked the Minister of Health:

 

(a)        when the construction of the Yeta School of Nursing in Sesheke District will commence;

 

(b)        whether the contractor for the project has been engaged;

 

(c)        what the total cost of the project is; and

 

(d)        what the time frame for the completion of the project is.

 

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, Yeta School of Nursing was opened in 2015 when it enrolled its first intake. Currently, the school has enrolled of over 400 students against limited buildings. The Government has in the 2022 Infrastructure Operation Plan budgeted for commencement of construction of the skills laboratory, four hostel blocks, ten offices for tutors, two twin lecture rooms and a school boundary wall fence.

 

Madam, the contractor has not been engaged because funds are yet to be made available. The total cost of the project will be known after the award of the contract to the successful bidder. The completion period of the project will be determined once the contractor is engaged.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kangombe (Sesheke): Madam Speaker, we are happy that at least, the hon. Minister is giving a comforting position to the people of Sesheke. However, like she has answered in her first response, a number of enrolled students are learning from what I can call a house. This is a situation which is not very good, considering that what we are talking about is a nursing school, which on its own, should start on a note where people should see that there is health involved. To subject that number of students to learn a hygiene kind of a profession in a classroom is so unfair.

 

Madam Speaker, will this Government try to expedite sourcing for money because that issue has been long overdue? May the hon. Minister be very specific, I strongly believe we have the Budget in place, so that the people of Sesheke are well comforted?

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Sesheke for passionately, talking about that issue. From the response that I gave, the hon. Member of Parliament should be happy because according to my response, that structure is supposed to be worked on this year. The hon. Member can give us time so that we see what we can do.

 

Madam Speaker, I feel it is important for me to make this point to my colleagues in Parliament. A Budget has a cycle of twelve months. So, yes, we have a Budget for that exercise but the Ministry of Finance and National Planning does not release all the money in January, for all the months as planned. So, what we do – We have certain activities that are funded once every month like salaries. 

 

Madam Speaker, for certain projects, the ministry must have a plan. It should be able to line up activities that it will do in the first, second, third and fourth quarters.  All those plans must be forwarded to the Ministry of Finance and National Planning for it to release resources according to those plans. To expect that everything must be done in January is a bit unfair on us.

 

Madam Speaker, I would like to request the hon. Members of Parliament who knows the system better to help us. When an hon. Member asks such a question on a project and we commit to say it will be done in the first quarter, he or she must take it and push to make sure that it is done.  When time passes and nothing is done, that hon. Member can now come and complain.

 

Madam Speaker, I agree with what the hon. Member of Parliament that nursing is a clean profession. That means that even the surrounding of the nursing school must be clean. Otherwise, if nurses get used to a dirty surrounding, even when they go in the hospitals, they will also be used to dirty surroundings. We find that as a challenging matter but the ministry is going to face it head on and guide those nursing schools. There is no point in over enrolling. If a building can only take 100 nurses, why would it enrol 400 people over a promissory rehabilitation project? Nursing schools should only engage students according to the capacity of a particular school, but unfortunately, that has not been the case. Sometimes the administrators just want money from these nurses and so, they over enrol.

 

Madam Speaker, we will be looking at this issue very seriously and appropriate decisions will be made so that we do not have this messy arrangement, where we enrol students in a structure that has no toilets, that is meant for a specific number of students. So, I take note of that situation and will be looking at it.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Speaker, I hear what the hon. Minister is saying and that is why I am on the Floor, bearing in mind that construction may not require all the funding at once. The Government can begin the process of advertising because procurement takes about three months.

 

Madam Speaker, does the hon. Minister not think that it would be good and prudent for the Ministry of Health to seek authority from the Treasury to begin the process of engaging a contractor so that by the time funding will be released, the three months process which Government tenders take would have been adhered to? We do not want to reach a situation where the people of Sesheke will be disadvantaged because of the Budget cycle.

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, what the hon. Member has said is exactly what we are trying to do, actually.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, I need to be educated for the sake of members of the public and the people of Sesheke. What is the use of a Force Account?

 

Madam Speaker: The use of what account?

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, there is a Force Account that the Government uses when it is time of – Oh! I am actually asking. I want to know what the Government uses the Force Account for. 

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: I just want to know the relationship between that question and the question that you have asked.

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, that is an account that is used by the Government in times of emergencies. I remember it was once used when the road in Chienge was gravelled. So, I want to find out why the Government cannot use that account to give the people of Sesheke what they are asking for.

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member has answered her question of what a Force Account is. I am not the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to dwell in financial issues. This question has nothing to do with that account.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

REMOVAL OF FIRED DISTRICT COMMISSIONERS FROM PAYROLL

 

  249. Mr Fube (Chilubi) asked the Vice President:

 

1. why the District Commissioners who were relieved of their duties in November, 2021, have been removed from the payroll;
2. whether the act is not in contravention of the Constitution of Zambia;
3. if so, what measures are being taken to address the issue; and
4. when the District Commissioners will be paid their terminal benefits.

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, former District Commissioners (DCs) were removed from the main Government payroll by virtue of their services being terminated. You may wish to know that they were migrated to the separatees payroll. This was done in order to pave way for the introduction of the newly appointed DCs.

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1630 hours until 1700 hours.

 

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, when business was suspended, I was responding to the question by the hon. Member for Chilubi, Mr Fube, and I had just finished giving the response to part (a) of the question. I was beginning to answer part (b) of the question which was “whether the removal is not in contravention of the Constitution of Zambia.”

 

Madam Speaker, as per the Constitution, the former DCs are required to be migrated from the main Government payroll to the separatees payroll. This migration has since been done.

 

Madam Speaker, having migrated the former DCs to the separatees payroll, the payment of their terminal benefits commenced in December 2021 and is ongoing.

 

Madam Speaker, in line with the commitment by the New Dawn Administration, the payment of terminal benefits to the former DCs is currently ongoing and is progressing without delay upon receipt of the requisite documents by the Treasury. As of today, ninety-three out of 116 former DCs have since been paid.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, the Vice-President said that when the former District Commissioners (DCs) were removed from the main payroll, they were taken to the separatees payroll. During that period, I want to find out whether the Government paid the former DCs for the months that it had not pay them. In the same vein, I want to find out whether the Government considered what was in the Public Service Management Division Circular No. B9 of 2021 issued on 25^th August 2021, which among other things, talked about the allowances on the separatees payroll. As far as I am concerned, when the former DCs were taken back to the payroll, they did not get those allowances.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, that is the kind of detail that probably should have been put in the question, about exactly what was being paid to the DCs. I am not aware of the Statutory Instrument that the hon. Member referred to. I am not aware of what was put in there exactly for them to continue being paid as separatees. By the Constitution, they continued being paid, except they had to be migrated to the separatees payroll in order to bring in the new ones on the main payroll so that there is no overlap in who was being paid.

 

Madam Speaker, on how much every allowance was, I do not know. I think I cannot quarrel with that Statutory Instrument. I do not know what else they should have been paid when their employment was terminated. However, they got their salaries because as the New Dawn Government, we cannot breach the Constitution with impunity like that. Those who have not yet been paid their benefits continue to be paid on the separatees payroll until everybody is cleared. By the end of April, there should be no former DC who will still be owed money by the Government.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Elias Musonda (Chimbamilonga): Madam Speaker, I think partly my question has been overtaken by Mr Fube’s second question. The District Commissioners (DCs) do not get the allowances due to them being on the separatees payroll. When the DCs are finally paid their terminal benefits, are these withheld allowances going to be factored into their final package?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thought the hon. Member would keep his first statement that his question had been overtaken because I explained that I would have to look exactly at what that document which says allowances should be paid says. I have to know exactly which allowances these are because the issue that the hon. Member asked was on whether they were still on the payroll. I said they were moved. So, I cannot use the word “withdrawn” or “withheld” as the hon. Member said unless I find out that truly something has been withheld and then we can provide the direction. Otherwise, all I will say is we will govern by the rule of law and we will have to ensure that everybody gets what is due to them.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, mine is just a quick contribution to what Her Honour the Vice-President has said. There was an issue to do with salaries plus allowances. There was a case some time back involving some Zambia Air Force (ZAF) officers who were denied allowances and only paid basic pay. When they sued, the court ruled that the question to be addressed there was about being retained on the payroll. The intention of the framers of the law was that when someone is waiting for their terminal benefits, their living standard or status quo is maintained by continuing to maintain them on the payroll.

 

So maybe as the Vice-President comes back with the answer, the issue there is that when there was that migration from one payroll to other, it was hoped that the amount which one was getting as their last salary before they went into retirement was the same one maintained on the new payroll without any deduction of all the allowances.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the concerns that are being raised in terms of what a person whose work has been terminated was entitled to receive. I thought the hon. Member the originator of the question said there was a Statutory Instrument (SI). If it is court made law, it has to be looked at, and then the Government must be able to interpret it. The allowances are so vast and different. Some of them may not be personal to holder by the job description as they may be functional. So which allowances was the court referring to? We have to look at which matter the court was resolving. Is it that every allowance should be paid? What was the entitlement of this particular job description? So all that is important.

 

Like I said, it is important for us to look at whether it was the court made law that made him ask the question or it was the SI. You will forgive me that if I am not aware those. However, the fact is that they were migrated from the main payroll to a separatees pay roll, which is the demand of the Constitution. That is still in either the court made law or by another piece of legislation which could be SI. We will look at that and see what exactly it is. However, they are being paid their benefits and we will pay everybody in full by April. In fact ninety three per cent have already been paid their benefits while eight are on the waiting list. We still have fifteen – However, we will look at those details as we go on.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Madam Speaker, I want to thank Her Honour the Vice-President for that aptly put response. We will welcome her in Muchinga next week.

 

Madam Speaker, I have talked to a number of District Commissioners (DC) as of today. They are still claiming that they have been removed from the payroll as they are waiting for their terminal benefits. In my question, allow me to quote the Constitution of Zambia under Article 187(1) which states that “an employ including a public officer and constitution office holder has a right to a pension benefit” also under Article 189(2) “were a pension benefit is not paid on a person’s last working day that person shall stop work, but the person’s name shall be retained on the payroll until the payment of the pension benefit based on the last salary received by that person while on the payroll.”

 

Madam Speaker, also allow me to quote the judgement of the Owen Mapayi and four others versus the Zambia people case on page J32. It reads: “The above provision was made in the Constitution to specifically cushion employees in general from hardship costs by the delay of their pension benefits.”

 

Madam Speaker, may I request that the Vice-President states whether we have some former DCs who have been removed from payroll and have not been paid their dues. They are listening and they watching. They are glued to this conversation.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I think the hon. Member for Mpika was extremely prepared for this question. We appreciate that. However, in preparedness, it is important to also follow the process on how far we have moved so that sometimes you might end up concluding that the matter has been handled. What you might say is: “Prepared I was, but it has been handled.”

 

Madam Speaker, the administrative processes and constitutional matters should not be in conflict. When you say that they must remain on the payroll, it is not by title, but by entitlement. That means that the DCs were not thrown out in the cold by us simply saying “your contract is over, go we will pay you when we want.” That is what the law was trying to resolve because we know where that constitutional provision came from. People would leave employment and stay ten years without being paid their retirement benefit. This House was careful enough to look at that. In terms of managing the administration side of things, the Government does not throw the retired DCs out, but it takes them to what is called the separatees’ payroll. You cannot have DC for Kaputa I and DC for Kaputa II on the same payroll.

 

Madam Speaker, so to cure that, the Government has what is called the separatees’ payroll. The retired DCs move to that payroll with their entitlements. Even though, I have said that I cannot tell you exactly which allowances were due to them, I can still say that whatever they were supposed to do to be paid they move with to the other payroll. If they were getting K20,000, they will move with their K20,000 as their pay, except it will be on a payroll with another name. There is no breach of the Constitution. If we threw them out completely, there would be a breach in the Constitution. However, they were being paid. On the details, I would be lying if I said that I had all of them.

 

Madam Speaker, thank you to whoever has written this note, I think he is helping me to say that there are different types of laws. Like transport allowance, can you pay a person transport allowance who does not work? This is where I said I have to understand all the issues. The law has to be interpreted even if it is court made law so that we know what kind of allowances were be talked about. I think I touched on that even before. Whether it is in the court made law or in the Constitution, both provisions have been met accordingly. Those twenty three that have not been paid up to now will continue to be on the seperatees’ payroll until they are paid. I even said that out of the remaining twenty three DCs out of 116, ninety three have been paid. The eight will probably get paid now. Fifteen will be paid by April because the money does not come at a go. We have tried to pay retirees and the DCs

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Speaker, I have a document. I am wondering whether the staff from Cabinet Office could have misinformed Her Honour the Vice-President.

 

Madam Speaker, there are DCs who have been paid their benefits, who were removed from the payroll and had not been receiving their salaries. The Government just calculated their benefits based on their salaries without their allowances. I will lay a contract from one of the DCs on the Table for the information of the Vice-President and the judgment from the court so that maybe she will be able to read the documents to get to know why the hon. Members of Parliament are insisting on some things. We live with the DCs. They were removed from the payroll. They have not been receiving their salaries. I have a case of my DC in Kawambwa. When he was paid in January, he was just paid for the benefits that he was entitled to, without the salary arrears owed to him for the period that he was removed from the payroll up to that point. This was the same case with the DC for Mwansabombwe. That is why they are asking what has happened to the period that they were not paid after being removed from the payroll. It looks like Cabinet Office misinformed Her Honour the Vice-President by saying they were put on the separatees payroll and are being paid. For the information of Her Honour the Vice-President, allow me to lay this document on the Table.

 

Madam Speaker: Proceed and lay the document on the Table.

 

Mr Chitotela laid the paper on the Table.

 

Mr Chitotela: I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, as the Government here, we do not argue about information doing the rounds until we go through the documents that have been laid on the Table so that we have a common understanding because the law can be interpreted in any manner. We have the same laws, yet lawyers argue a lot over clauses. So, it is important that my office understands exactly what the issues are.

 

Maybe, just a little addition, Madam Speaker, some of the DCs have not been paid because their documentation has not yet been done, and that might be because of inaction on either side. For example, maybe, the people who were separated have not provided what is needed. However, if, really, we have people who claim they were not paid, I think, the information should be available, and we can avail it at the right time.

 

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Speaker, I am praying here that my question will not be curtailed because the principle is the same.

 

Madam Speaker, on former Mayors and Council Chairpersons –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Matero, ...

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: ... I think, file in your own question, since you are an interested party. Have you been paid your terminal benefits?

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: I think that you are expanding the question too much. Her Honour the Vice-President is not prepared for that question.

 

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, I want to learn from Her Honour the Vice-President how the Government calculates the payments on gratuities. Does it base the calculations on the basic salary or the gross salary? I ask this question because there was a circular before the new Government came in, and I am not aware of any counter circular being issued. I want to learn whether the Government calculates the benefits based on the basic pay or gross pay because the word ‘pro rata’ is very pronounced, and it is confusing to the District Commissioners (DCs).

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I like the way the hon. Member for Chilubi has ended the question by saying that the word ‘pro rata, is confusing. However, there is no need for confusion between pro rata and what a person gets because our separatees are paid pro rata, which simply means ‘according to the time served’. Whether the benefits include allowances, that is an issue we have already said we need to look at.

 

 So, pro rata means that if one was a DC for two months, one can only get for that period. I think, previously, there was an issue with DCs whose contracts were terminated asking to be paid for the entire period they could ordinarily have served. That is why the pro rata provision was brought in, and I am grateful to the people who brought in that provision even before we came into office; some people did well, and it is  very important to acknowledge that. There were some people who served for one week only, but wanted to be paid for the entire contract. That is what we experienced. They did not know about pro rata, which is about a person being paid according to the length of service rather than length of the contract.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Maybe, I should just add that the conditions of service also determine what is supposed to be paid. So, maybe, the hon. Members should look at the conditions of service as well. I am just volunteering the information, as I was a lawyer in that area.

 

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker –

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Stand up.

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members –

 

Mr Kampyongo: There is one colleague I need to take to the gymnasium, Madam Speaker.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Kampyongo: I think he is waxing in too much fat.

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: You can take each other when you go outside.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Yes, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, proceed.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, District Commissioners (DCs) are office-bearers appointed from amongst us, the citizens, and that office has been in existence for a long time, as Her Honour the Vice-President may recollect. Further, the DCs are appointed to the cycle of any sitting Government and contracts are given to them. As Leader of Government Business in the House, what is Her Honour the Vice-President’s honest opinion on the exit options? How should the issue of those citizens who served, but are disappointed and other citizens have been appointed in, whose tour of duty will also come to an end?

 

Madam Speaker, what would be the ideal situation? Her Honour the Vice-President told us that one cannot be on two payrolls. When one is separated from employment, one is cleared, and the rationale behind that clause in the Constitution was so that people are not thrown into destitution. However, I heard Her Honour the Vice-President talk about separatees’ salaries, which creates space for new office-holders to be given their dues. What would be the best way to manage the transition and help the DCs who leave office to live in dignity, as citizens who served their country?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, for the first time, I am failing to really understand what the hon. Member is looking for because I think the process is clear, except he cannot look for my opinion. I have no opinion as I stand here, as a Member of the Executive. I only articulate what Government policies. So, I have no opinion on how DCs should be separated.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Currently, Madam Speaker, the process is as I described it. The hon. Member might be wondering what should be done for a DC who serves for a period shorter than the time stipulated in the contract, say, for five months, given that their pay will be pro rata, what should you do because the separatees pay will be pro rata, and my answer is that there are hon. Members of Parliament right now who are out of this House, and some may not come back. What are we going to do for them? Certain decisions we make in life have repercussions. I believe that there are people in the Frontbench here whose mangoes are different from those of people at the back. If, tomorrow, the people at the Frontbench are removed from there, are we going to ask how we would handle them? I hope I am saying something here, which is that when people accept a certain position, they must know and be ready for what might happen along the way. Certain things happen; some people’s contracts are terminated early while others’ run for two or three terms. So, an opinion I do not have. I can only explain the process.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, I was hesitant to make a comment because I was in the position being discussed, that is, a District Commissioner (DC). However, I must confess that I have got lost along the way and I am struggling to understand. I hope the Vice-President can help me to understand exactly what we are looking at.

 

Madam Speaker, my scenario is that I served my full term and went into an unallocated term.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, the problem is you are now debating yourself.

 

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, I am trying to build up the question so that you also learn from my experience.

 

Madam Speaker, when my contract was not renewed –

 

Madam Speaker: No, we cannot debate you because the debate would become too personal. We cannot discuss your personal issues. Maybe, just declare interest and –

 

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, alright.

 

Madam Speaker, I am lost regarding what the situation is. Are we suggesting that at some point, those whose contracts were cut were removed completely and were not being paid, but later started being paid again or are we struggling to debate the issue of their being paid from the separatees account?

 

Madam Speaker, I want to understand what the scenario is. Are the separated DCs being paid their monthly entitlement or not? I ask this question because the law very clearly provides that they are supposed to be paid until they are given their separation package. It does not matter whether they are paid from separatees account or otherwise. They may not be given allowance as it was in my case. They are given the other entitlements, except for allowances.

 

Madam Speaker, I am lost. Please, forgive me.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, we should not go into tedious issues. If there was a way, I was going to ask the one who asked the principal question to respond to the hon. Member because, I think, I went through this issue. The hon. Members who have been listening have heard, and I am sure the owner of the question heard, too. The question was broken into four parts, and I clearly started – I think the hon. Member was not in the House.

 

Madam Speaker, in this instance, I will not repeat my answer, if that is acceptable to you.

 

Madam Speaker: Actually, I was tempted to say that the question has been answered, but I did not.

 

Mr Chisanga (Lukashya): Madam Speaker, before I ask the question, I just want to assure the Vice-President that our colleagues who are not here with us will definitely come back. If not through a Constitutional Court judgment, then, it will be through the by-elections.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chisanga: Madam Speaker, my question is on Article 189, and I just want to find out what motivated the Government to create a separate payroll for the District Commissioners (DCs) after they were separated. In my reading of Article 189, it does not suggest that the Government should create a separate payroll.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: Anyway, we cannot answer.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I am glad it is the hon. Member for Lukashya, a lawyer, asking this question.

 

Madam Speaker, that is why I said that this law can be argued on over and over. Every law is made to cure some problem and, listening to the hon. Members who have been asking questions – Hon. Kampyongo was very clear in his own way in asking how we should treat a person who has been moved off. In answering that question, I say, we cannot throw a person into the cold before paying them. That is what that law cured. We are not compelled to call the payroll ‘Government payroll’.

 

Mr Jamba: Education!

 

The Vice-President: What we are compelled to do is ensure that people do go into destitution. For administrative purposes, we cannot have two DCs in one district. Therefore, the one who is separated must continue to be looked after until they get their terminal benefits.

 

Mr Kapala: Tell them!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the Government had to be smart and ensure that the separated DCs were not thrown into the cold while waiting for their benefits; we decided to keep them on the payroll, except it is called a ‘Separatees Payroll’. They continue to get their pay until they are given their terminal benefits. I am aware that hon. Members here raised the issue of some DCs not being paid, and I have admitted that I have to look at the issue because the information available to me is that people were put on the Separatees Payroll. So, from the time they were separated, they must have continued to be on that payroll until they are given the lump sum and, as at now, I have said “ninety-three”. So, if there is any other hitch on the way, I have said that we will look at the issue of allowances; is it the Transport Allowance or the Housing Allowance? Which allowance? We have to understand according to the law that was made in the court.

 

Mr Kapala: Ema Veep aba.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, that is the way I understand the issue.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chisanga: It is constitutional.

 

Madam Speaker: It is also for budgetary reasons, if I may add, because – Anyway, I am not supposed to.

 

Laughter

 

SINKING OF BOREHOLES IN KABENDWE

 

250. Rev. Katuta (Chienge) asked the Minister of Water Development and Sanitation:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to sink boreholes in Kabendwe area in Chitunda Ward in Chienge Parliamentary Constituency; 
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
3. what the cause of the delay in commencing the project is.

 

The Minister of Water Development and Sanitation (Mr Mposha): Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to drill boreholes in Kabendwe area, Chitunda Ward of Chienge Parliamentary Constituency in Luapula Province.

 

Madam Speaker, the contractor has been engaged and is currently in Chienge District drilling boreholes. In addition, the borehole in Kabendwe area in Chitunda Ward will be drilled within the second quarter of 2022. There has been no delay because the implementation will take place within the project period.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, it like the technocrats are trying to play with the lives of people of Chienge by giving wrong information to the hon. Ministers when responding to questions that come from there. 

 

Madam Speaker, as I am standing here, I do not know where the contractor they are referring to is. Whoever they are saying is there may be some kind of a ghost because there is no one drilling boreholes in Chienge.

  

This is a place that has been neglected for quite some time. So, I want to know where the hon. Minister got that response from. I suggest that he fires his technocrats. I am saying this because I do not want to take advantage of the disadvantaged. There is only one borehole in that area and currently, no contractor is sinking boreholes. May I know when we will receive even one borehole from the Government as an emergency, especially in Kabendwe, where there the population is a bit high?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, in the first part of her question, the hon. Member is wondering where we are getting these responses. Obviously, as a ministry, we are supplied with information by our technocrats. The ministry has representation in all the provinces. So, if truly the hon. Member of Parliament feels that what we are being given is not correct, she will be helping this Government because she is part of it, to put it in writing. I want to pledge on the Floor of the House that I will be more than ready to go with the hon. Member of Parliament to Chienge, the soonest, so that we establish who is saying what. If it is found that my officers at the ministry are not giving the Government correct information, then heads should roll. We will then need to do a cleanup.

 

Madam Speaker, I have directed my officers at the ministry and in the provinces that whenever, hon. Members of Parliament, who are the people’s representatives ask us questions, we expect them to give us correct information. I have also told them that where an hon. Member of Parliament is going to prove to me that the information being supplied to us is incorrect, then action will be taken, and all my officers are alive to this fact. So, if truly, the boreholes are not being drilled in Chienge, I think we can engage each other soonest today, after this session, so that we go on a fact finding mission. This is how we should correct things so that when I stand on the Floor of the House, I should satisfy hon. Members of Parliament who are elected to represent their people.

 

Madam Speaker, the other part of the question is, “When can we get the borehole in Kabendwe area the soonest?” From the information I have, boreholes are already being drilled in various parts of Chienge. This whole project should end by the last quarter of 2022.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that response and he must understand the passion I have for the people of Chienge. I agree with his suggestion and I am ready to start off right now to go to Chienge.

 

Mr Nkandu: The two of you?

 

Rev. Katuta: Yes.

 

Laughter

 

Rev Katuta: Madam Speaker, could the hon. Minister tell me the name of the contractor who has been assigned to sink boreholes in Chienge Constituency.

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, we have a contractor who has been assigned to drill these boreholes in Chienge as well as Mwansabombwe area. The name of the contractor is China Gansu Engineering Corp Zambia International (CGECZI). The total project cost for Chienge and Mwansabombwe is US$590,627.26.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Rev Katuta indicated.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chienge, you have already exhausted your questions, but since you are travelling to Chienge with the hon. Minister for fact finding, I think you will do a lot of work on the ground.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Chibombwe (Bahati): Madam Speaker, does the ministry got specifications that are given to the contractors who are drilling boreholes in Chienge, in terms of  the depth of the borehole, size of the hand pump to be used, and the yield of the borehole? 

 

Madam Speaker, a domestic borehole should have a yield of about 3 to 5 litres per second. A community or commercial borehole should have a yield of about 5 to 15 litres per second. I ask this particular question because the boreholes that are being drilled dry up a few months after commissioning and yet there are old boreholes that are still operational.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister said that currently, the boreholes are being drilled and I do not know if boreholes are drilled during the rainy season. However, is the ministry giving proper specifications to the contractors who are drilling boreholes in Chienge?

 

Madam Speaker, allow me to also tell the hon. Minister that the people of Chienge are very serious.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Chibombwe: So, the hon. Minister should take note of that.

 

Hon. Member: They have laptops.

 

Madam Speaker: Whatever you mean by saying they are very serious. Are they the Zambia Forestry and Forest Industries Corporation Limited (ZAFFICO) people?

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I am equally wondering if the hon. Member of Parliament is suggesting that I must not travel on a fact-finding mission.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I believe that contractors are given specifications. In terms of the size of the hand pumps, that is usually determined by the borehole report. Once a borehole is drilled, there is a report that is prepared that determines what type of pump should be fitted. The hon. Member must understand that the boreholes we are talking about are going to be equipped with hand pumps. They are kind of standardised.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Peta-UK …

 

Laughter

 

Mr J. E. Banda: …a chance to ask a question on behalf of the good people of Chienge. How many boreholes have been drilled by the CGECZI so far in Zambia? How many are they going to drill in Chienge Constituency?

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Only one question per hon. Member.

 

Mr J. E. Banda: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I thank my brother, the hon. Member of Parliament for Peta-UK for that very good question.

 

Madam Speaker, the total number of boreholes is sixty-four. The information I have is that throughout this project, sixty-four boreholes have been drilled. Forty-six boreholes have been –

 

Mr Kapyanga: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister, continue.

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, thank you for your protection.

 

Madam Speaker, I was saying that sixty-four boreholes, have been drilled but only forty-six have been successfully drilled. What that means is that out of sixty-four, eighteen boreholes were unsuccessful because they were dry. The information I have is that we need to move to another site where we will have to drill these eighteen boreholes.

 

Madam Speaker, for the sake of clarity, the nature of our contracts with the drillers that the ministry is using is that payments are only made for wet boreholes. Successful boreholes are the ones where a site is located, drilling is done, and water is found. Once a dry borehole is drilled, we do not pay for it. That means we have to migrate to another site where we will have to repeat the drilling until we recover all those that were found to be dry boreholes.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Mpika, you were rising on a point of order?

 

A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No. 65, which talks about ensuring that the information that is being given or provided is factual and verifiable. Is the hon. Member for Petauke, who has passionately called for prayers, in order to mislead this House that we have a constituency in your records indicated as Peta-UK? I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: He is improving his English language.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, that amount of US$592,000 is going to be paid to our friends who are not even Zambians. Simple jobs such as drilling boreholes are still being given to foreign nationals. That is not good. Can the hon. Minister tell the people of Chienge when that contract was given?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I do not have a specific date as to when this contract was given, but it has been ongoing from around 2020. The answer I provided was specific to Chienge, but the project covers a number of other districts in Luapula Province that include; Lunga, Mwansabombwe and Mwense. So, when we talk about that amount, it must not just be associated to the sixty-four boreholes in Chienge alone. It is broader than the sixty-four boreholes. I referred to Chienge when I mentioned the sixty-four boreholes. That project is beyond Chienge District because it includes other districts of Luapula Province.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing the people of Bwana Mkubwa to ask a question. Thieves run away even when they are not being pursued. You will see them running away ...

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwambazi: ... from being questioned. My question is 251.

 

CONSTRUCTION OF KAFULAFUTA DAM

 

251. Mr Mwambazi asked the Minister of Water Development and Sanitation:

 

(a)        why the construction of the Kafulafuta Dam in Bwana Mukubwa Parliamentary Constituency has stalled;

 

(b)        when the construction works will resume;

 

(c)        what the total cost of the project is; and

 

(d)        what the time frame for the completion of the outstanding works is.

 

The Minister of Water Development and Sanitation (Mr Mposha): Madam Speaker, the construction of the Kafulafuta Dam in Bwana Mkubwa Parliamentary Constituency stalled due to delayed release of funds. Works are expected to resume once funds are made available. The total cost of the Kafulafuta Water Supply System Project is US$449 million. The outstanding works will be completed within twelve months upon resumption of works.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mwambazi: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and I did visit Kafulafuta. I thank the hon. Minister for his answer. I know what is happening and I have no further question.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mung’andu: That is not allowed. You are not supposed to respond.

 

Madam Speaker: In view of the fact that the owner of the question has no supplementary questions, let us make progress.

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: I will allow two questions. The hon. Member for Lukashya.

 

Mr Chisanga (Lukashya): Madam Speaker, how much was spent on a portion that has been constructed so far?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, we have spent US$380.8 million, out of which US$280 million has already been paid to the contractor. We owe the contractor about US$101 million. The works that have been done so far amount to US$380.8 million.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, not to waste your time, I think the hon. Member for Lukashya and I are telepathic because the question that he asked is the one I wanted to ask.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

SETTING UP OF INDUSTRIES IN LUANGWA

 

253. Mr E. Tembo (Feira) asked the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry:

 

(a)        whether the Government has any plans to set up industries in Luangwa District; and

 

(b)        if so, when the plans will be implemented.

 

Madam Speaker: The hon. Minister of Tourism may proceed and answer on behalf of the hon. Minister of Commerce and Trade and Industry.

 

The Minister of Tourism (Mr Sikumba) (on behalf of the Minister of Commerce and Trade and Industry (Mr Mulenga)): Madam Speaker, the Government’s role in industrialisation is to provide conducive environment to the private sector in order to thrive and to set up new industries and contribute to job creation. That role is undertaken through formulation of policy and legislation that promotes private sector driven industrialisation. Currently, some of the policies include the national industrialisation policy, which provides overall policy direction on how Zambia intends to industrialise the local content strategy, which encourages the use of local raw materials in the manufacturing of products and the Zambia tourism master plan.

 

Madam Speaker, through the stated role, the Government will support the development of industries, not only in Luangwa District, but the whole country. With respect to Luangwa District, the overall strategy will create opportunities for the business community to take advantage of the natural resource endowment that is available in Luangwa District so that they can set up industries.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government’s facilitatory role and engagement with the private sector is an ongoing process and therefore, industries in Luangwa will be setup when the private sector responds to take advantage of the opportunities the Government is creating.

Madam Speaker, in this regard, I would like to call upon the business community in Zambia to take advantage of a conducive business environment that the New Dawn Government is currently providing.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, through you –

 

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chama South, you have just come in. From here I can see everything. I know who comes in at what time and who does what. So, that point of order will be ignored.  

 

Hon. Member for Kasenengwa proceed.

 

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, going by the hon. Minister’s response, what is the Government doing to woo investors into Feira Constituency? His response was too broad. What is the Government doing to motivate investors to go into Luangwa District? What type of industries or businesses are they targeting? 

 

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I would have been very encouraged if the hon. Member really paid attention to the many opportunities that the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government has put already in motion.

 

Madam Speaker, in Luangwa District, not so long ago, we announced the signing of the construction of the Luangwa Bridge at the tune of US$75.5 million in collaboration with Japan International Cooperation Agency (JICA), which will open up the Nacala Corridor and bring up more opportunities within Luangwa District? 

 

Madam Speaker, that in itself will be able to set in motion the many business opportunities that exist in the particular areas like horticulture, textiles as well as tourism, a sector which I preside over.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, I have heard what the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government has planned for Luangwa. My cry has been to see that most of the companies which were closed by the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD) Government are revamped, the way the United Bus Company of Zambia (UBZ) has bounced back.

Madam Speaker, why can this Government not go back to Luangwa Industries Limited which used to assemble bicycles?

 

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I beg to repeat what I mentioned in my closing remarks as I was delivering the response. In this regard, I would like to call upon business communities in Zambia to take advantage of a conducive business environment which the New Dawn Government is providing.

 

Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government, this time around is pushing back to the private sector. It wants the private sector to thrive. Should the hon. Member of Parliament for Chienge opt to get into manufacturing bicycles, she can come to our offices and apply. We will give her incentives since she is from a rural area and she will be a fantastic business person.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr E. Tembo (Feira): Madam Speaker, in Luangwa, we do not have any industry, not even a sweet making factory. The people of Luangwa are looking forward to answers relating to the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC), which on its own, is an investment wing of the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. Can the Government use the IDC to invest in Luangwa District?

 

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, indeed the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC) is an investment wing of the Government. Without having to pre-empt what it does, looks at opportunities that exist in a particular area before it gets to invest. The IDC like any business person would also have to do a due diligence of the particular investment opportunities that exist in that particular area. So, should the IDC find it relevant or rather profitable to invest in Luangwa District, then I am sure it will be able to invest?

 

Madam Speaker, however, as it stands now, the investment opportunities in Luangwa District are there. Like I mentioned earlier, we are trying to open up business within Zambia and the neighbouring countries in the Nacala Corridor. So, opportunities that exist should be able to now, allow our colleague, the investment wing of Zambia, which is the IDC to invest.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Speaker, Luangwa is indeed, a dead district that needs attention, economically. It overlooks the Zambezi River and the Luangwa River but there is nothing that goes on there other than the lodges business.

 

Madam Speaker, in order for this New Dawn Government to boost Luangwa District economically to help the people there, which one of the two interest groups (stakeholders) is it more inclined to? Is it the tourism or mining industry?

 

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, investment opportunities exist everywhere. Like the hon. Member rightly put it, we need to look at an issue whether we want to do mining or tourism activities. However, the very fact that there is a topical issue surrounding the area in the Lower Zambezi and that a number of statements have been issued regarding the same, I would suggest that, if at all there is a matter that requires us to give a comprehensive statement, it probably has to be brought back to the House.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.   

 

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, currently, the Government is being managed by statements, and these statements are not consistent. There is a lot of backtracking. In the absence of the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP), which document is guiding the Government on industries that should be developed in Luangwa?

 

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I could sense that that is a new question almost immediately. Like I mentioned earlier, what is driving this response is the local content strategy that we are talking about and the national industrialisation policy, which if I am not mistaken, and I stand to be corrected, was launched in April, 2018.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, I will give an example. In the North-Western Province, the anchor activity in terms of industrialisation might be processing pineapple into juice and other finished products. Is the hon. Minister in a position to give us the sector that he thinks can help the people of Luangwa in terms of industrialisation?

 

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I am quite happy that I preside over the Ministry of Tourism. To answer his question quickly, tourism, in my honest opinion, should be the mainstay of Luangwa. Other than that, we are talking about aquaculture, which is fishing. That should be another mainstay of the people of Luangwa District.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Lumezi, do you have any question?

 

Mr Munir Zulu: No, Madam Speaker.

 

Laughter

Madam Speaker: You have to remember everyone.

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: We move to the next question by the hon. Member for Mwinilunga.

 

Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga): Madam Speaker, it has been a long journey from October last year when this question was posed to March. It has fallen by the wayside. Many things have happened. I do not wish to proceed with the question.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: In that case, we proceed to the next question.

 

BENEFITS OF AGRICULTURE FROM LINKANGES BETWEEN EDUCATION SYSTEM AND INDUSTRY

 

254. Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Agriculture:

 

1. what measures are being taken to ensure that the agriculture sector benefits from the linkages between the country’s education system and industry; and
2. what measures are being taken to reduce the country’s dependence on maize.

 

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Mtolo): Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Agriculture runs agriculture training institutes that provide training at certificate and diploma levels in agriculture. These qualified graduates from these institutions are absorbed by the industry. In addition, the Natural Resources Development College (NRDC) trains agriculture science teachers who are recruited by the Ministry of Education to teach agriculture science in schools. Further, the Ministry of Agriculture is aware that schools run production units and the extension staff in various parts of the country provide extension services to schools. 

Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Agriculture is promoting crop diversification as a way of reducing dependence on maize. The ministry is promoting irrigation so that various crops, apart from maize can be grown to increase the affordability and accessibility of diverse and nutritious food. Developing farm blocks to make land available for production of a wide range of agriculture products is another measure that the ministry is promoting. The ministry is also carrying out research on crops, vegetables and fruits suited to Zambia’s agronomy conditions.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Chanda: The hon. Minister has addressed himself principally to training and what is being done in colleges and the syllabi etcetera. However, the gist of my question is informed by the linkages in the agriculture sector. You have academia, industry and then you have the agriculture sector and the extent to which the inter-linkages are playing into the agriculture sector with regard to research and development. This is something that is very clear when we look at the Maputo Declaration on Agriculture and Food Security, the Malabo Declaration, the African Ministerial Conference on the Environment (AMCEN) Cairo Declaration and the African Union Agenda 2063. To what extent and how much is the ministry spending annually on agriculture research and development, and which universities has the ministry brought on board?

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, indeed, the question is: What are we doing to ensure that there are  benefits from the linkages between the country’s education system and industry? What this question really means is, let us take NRCD, for example. The NRDC should look at what the industry wants and it should train people according to what the industry requires. It does that. I will give an example. Right now, the NRDC is working with Saro Agro Industrial Limited. Saro Agro Industrial Limited has been given a piece of land at the institute and the students are now learning practically to drive tractors and use equipment which is attached to the tractors. They are practically getting the industrial requirements, for example, that Saro Agro Industrial Limited might require. Therefore, the linkage between the industry and our institution is definitely being registered and carried out. The issue of research and how much money goes into research is surely not what was asked here.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, the last part of his response somehow addressed my question. However, I think that the question posed by the hon. Member –

 

Mr Mung’andu crossed the Floor.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chama South, you are now there?

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: Please consult quietly with the hon. Ministers so that we listen to the questions.

 

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, looking at the question in its current form referring to the linkage between the agriculture sector and the education sector, I feel that it still points to research and development. That being the case, for any country to transform its agriculture sector, that link is very important. We have seen that most of the countries including China that have transformed the agriculture sector have paid specific attention to research and development. You will agree with me that one of the challenges in this sector is to do with productivity and not necessarily production, meaning that what we are able to get out of a given unit piece of land is only so much, but with improved productivity, we can get more. So the question really is: How much effort is your government putting in research and development with a view of improving productivity in the agriculture sector.

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, the simple answer is that there is a lot of research going on at the ministry, which research is meant to increase productivity. Let me give a practical example. Right now, our small-scale farmers are producing on average, 1.5 to 2.5 tonnes per hector whereas, the standard could be 15 or more tonnes per hectare. That clearly shows that the productivity is absolutely low. When the current President came into office, his direction to me was, “I am making you Minister of Agriculture and I want you to increase productivity.” This means that we should give a lot of research on the seed and fertiliser that we give. We should also give research on mapping the country for the soils so that the seed I plant in Chipata is different to what the hon. Member plants in Kanchibiya.

 

Madam Speaker, there is a lot of input in the research wing at the Ministry of Agriculture. We actually do have a whole section that deals with research. There is the Zambia Agriculture Research Institute (ZARI) which is specifically entrusted with managing the research wing for the Ministry of Agriculture. I want to get back to the point that indeed, we were talking about education and how it fits into the industry. If we wanted figures on how much we give in terms of research, I would come with those figures or give them to the hon. Member, if I get them. I want to give him comfort that there is a lot of research going on. There is a whole department specifically for research that goes into agriculture.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, with your indulgence, the education, agriculture and industrial sectors are interlinked. They are not in competition but are there to complete each other. The gist of the question was to understand what Government is doing interfacing the agriculture sector in the industry. In asking my second supplementary question, the country knows that with the advent of climate change, we ought to be going beyond maize. We have cassava, sorghum, millet, rice and sweet potatoes. However, for so many years, we have been treated to the mono diet culture dependant on maize.

 

Madam Speaker, are there plans by the ministry to convene a high level dialog involving smallholders farmers, consumers, market actors, academia and the civil society to drive a sea change in Zambia’s agricultural and dietary diversity? If so, when and if not, why?

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, that is actually a lovely question. Firstly, you will notice that other than bringing people together to dialogue, there are practical measures which I think the successive Governments have actually implemented. I like talking about practical things. Let us talk about the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). FISP has what is called a supplementary pack. This is a pack over and above the ordinary maize and fertilisers. We give what exactly the hon. Member for Kanchibiya mentioned. We give sunflower, soya beans, groundnuts and sorghum. This in itself means that the 1 million farmers that we are dealing with in FISP are technically being encouraged to get out of maize per se, and start getting other crops which actually are more commercially viable and start changing the monoculture, which the hon. Member mentioned.

 

Madam Speaker, beyond that, almost in all our meetings with cooperating partners, this is being emphasised. The support we are getting from outside is no longer targeted for maize. It is purely targeted for other crops including rice, which we want to get into very seriously like in Bangweulu and most of the areas that we have in the North and Luapula Provinces. So, yes there is a very serious deliberate strategy to move out of maize and provide for other crops. I thank the hon. Member for that lovely question.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu) Madam Speaker, my question is riding on the question posed by the hon. Member for Kanchibiya. The hon. Minister made reference to Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). The research has been done and the hon. Minister can tell from the practical examples that my Government (PF) undertook, such as the cashew nuts project in Western Province. In the hon. Minister’s constituency, we have got the palm project. How has the hon. Minister zoned this country in terms of diversification in view of the climate change that the hon. Member referred to? Can he be specific because he talked about rice in the water lands. Which other areas has he identified and which specific crops is he trying to promote so that we can help him disseminate information to the farmers? Can he be categorical because a lot of work was done even under our Government. So, he has got material to work with.

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, let me give examples which have been mentioned. In Western Province, more than 6 million trees for cashew nut were been distributed to farmers. In Eastern Province, more than 1.2 million for cashew nut were been distributed to farmers. In Northern Province, there is a huge plantation for palm oil extraction. We have a number of programmes which we are encouraging. We are also encouraging a lot of silk worm production from mulberry trees which are being given to farmers. Most of these are at nursery production and are being given out across countries depending on where the mulberries can do well.

 

Madam Speaker, we also have blueberries, which are being produced in the Southern, Lusaka and some parts of Central provinces. These are being exported to countries like the United States of America (USA). This is something which a lot of people do not know. There is a lot of cassava being planted for commercial purposes over and above the maize. There is more than 2,000 hectares of cassava which has been done in Kawambwa. That is what we are promoting. I can go on and on and the hon. Member would love to hear what we are doing and what we are going to do.

 

Madam Speaker, the process of diversification in agriculture has actually taken off from where our friends left off and we want to make it bigger.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Speaker, in the interest of time, I will just zero in to the last part. What measures are being taken to reduce the countries dependence on maize? Undisputable, I pick up that the hon. Minister said that we need to look for the alternative. If we had to pick on one crop that will be good for the rural constituencies and the urban for back yard, a crop that will be good for breakfast, lunch and supper, would that crop be Kandolo?

 

Madam Speaker: Kandolo, meaning?

 

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, it can be yellow or maroon or red sweet potato.

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, sweet potato is an important crop but I would not fall in the trap which Hon. Sampa wants me to fall into. They are sitting that side of the House because one of them made fun of this crop. So, I will not fall into that trap.

Laughter

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, we have got crops which people are used to. We promote maize. For his own information, we are very happy that the small-scale farmers are producing maize because the bad policies which were implemented made commercial farmers pull out from maize production. Very little maize is produced by commercial famers but the small-scale farmers. We have now opened the borders and small-scale farmers are going to start spinning their pivots and start using their driers. Once that happens, we will so much discourage the small-scale farmers from going into maize because it does not really give them money in their pockets. Sorghum, millet, rice, beans, and a bit of sweet potato would be useful but not that we should talk about sweet potato here. It has taken the hon. Member where he is and I will not get into that trapped.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Laughter

 

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister of Agriculture, I see he is passionate about agriculture. Madam Speaker, I am referring to the last part of the question. I thought this New Dawn Government would talk about the introduction of agriculture education from primary school. The challenge that we have in Africa is that we teach thing like agriculture and the driving of tractors in tertiary institutions. 

 

Madam Speaker, why can this New Dawn Government not take advantage of the crops that are needed in other countries? For example, in China, they need soya beans. Instead of borrowing money from them, we can just exchange with the type of soya beans they need. We have plenty of land. The Government can tell the Chinese that it will be growing soya beans for so many hectares and they may give it the technology it requires. That is also how the education system can benefit.

 

Madam Speaker, why not have crops that can benefit the entire country like soya beans? We have what we call saffron oil and 350 ml of this oil is K400. So, why can we not take advantage of this by starting from teaching the young ones in primary schools like President Kaunda used to do?

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chienge for that question. The hon. Member should have noticed that there is a lot of synergy which is going on now between ministries. The Minister of Technology and Science, Hon. Mutati has, for example, introduced a programme where we are teaching people how to do construction, plumbing and electrical works. The programme started in Chongwe and it was in the Eastern Province. It is going to be rolled-out in all the provinces. I am giving an example of how well-coordinated the New Dawn Government is looking at things. So, it might not necessarily be the Ministry of Agriculture but it is well-coordinated. We are working together with the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts, and the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprises Development. Some of the things that I am supposed to do in my ministry are being done by the hon. Minister from Tourism, the hon. Minister of Small and Medium Enterprises Development, the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts and the hon. Minister of Technology and Science. That is not to say –

 

Mr Muchima: And I have land to give you.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mtolo: And lands, yes. Madam Speaker that is not to say that I am under playing what the hon. Member for Chienge has said. We want to reintroduce practically – In fact, we want to  carry on what the Patriotic Front (PF) Government started, to have the two streams at school, the academic one and the practical side of things. So, we are going to emphasise that so that we do things properly.

 

Madam Speaker, Now, the hon. Member talked of soya beans. Let me give her so statistics. For a long time, we have been producing 30,000, 40,000 or 50,000 tonnes of soya beans. This year, we are expecting 650,000 metric tonnes of soya beans.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: That is meant for the China market. So, we are looking at all these things very seriously.  She should talk to me and she will be very happy with what we are trying to do.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: On that note let us make progress for we are running out of time.

 

POOR CONDITIONS OF SERVICE IN MINING SECTOR

 

256. Mr J. Chibuye (Roan) asked the Minister of Labour and Social Security what measures the Government is taking to address the following in the mining sector, countrywide:

 

1. verbal abuse of workers by foreign investors;
2. poor salaries for workers;
3. long working hours;
4. foreigners doing jobs that can be done by Zambians; and
5. general poor conditions of service for Zambian workers.

 

The Minister of Labour and Social Security (Ms Tambatamba): Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Labour and Social Security, through the office of the Labour Commissioner, has the responsibility of enforcing the Employment Code Act No.3 of 2019. This includes the vital inspectorate role and the power to effect amicable settlements in the event of disputes or disharmony at a workplace to issuing orders for compliance. In instances where non-compliance by foreign investors persists, the ministry does make recommendations to the Immigration Department for the revocation of work permits of those investors.

 

Madam Speaker, on poor salaries of workers, I wish to respond that the mining sector is one of those most unionised sectors of our economy. Therefore, salaries for employees in the mining sector are mainly governed by collective agreements or individual contracts of employment. The minimum wages orders only cover vulnerable employees and the level of these wages are determined by the hon. Minister in consultation with a tripartite committee called the Labour Advisory Committee.

 

Madam Speaker, on the issue of the long working hours, the Employment Code Act stipulates forty-eight hours per week which an employee or worker is required to work. Therefore, an employee is entitled to the payment of overtime once the employee works beyond the agreed working hours. The ministry will continue to monitor the implementation of this provision in the labour market.

 

Madam Speaker, of the question of foreigners doing jobs that can be done by Zambians, Section 14 of the Employment Code Act gives priority to a citizen, where an employment vacancy arises. Furthermore, the Employment Code Act establishes a Skills Advisory Committee whose main objective is to come up with a critical skill list which shall assist in identifying the skill gaps to also assist in curbing excess number of expatriates.

 

Madam Speaker, as regards the general poor conditions of service for Zambian workers, Madam Speaker, the ministry will continue to enforce the labour laws through inspectorate powers. Further, the ministry will promote social dialogue and collective bargaining for the improvement of conditions of service that are reasonable in line with the decent work agenda.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, we have the trade unions in the mining industry that have signed recognition agreements with employers which regulation relations between unions and employers. We also have collective agreements which set out conditions of service and any infringement or violation of that violates the collective agreement. I want to find out from the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security whether she has any plans to talk to these unions – There too many trade unions in the mining industry. Previously, when we used to have only the Mine Workers Union of Zambia, it was very strong and most of these things were not there. Does the Government have any plans to sit down with these trade unions so that they form one trade union which can represent the interests of the mining workers?

 

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, indeed, it is in the interest of workers to aggregate their voices and speak with authority. However, while we recognise that, that is very important, it is a democratic right for an employee to choose a union of their choice. Nevertheless, we are time and again, through the social dialogue with our partners discussing the pro and cons so that they are able to see the best way to effectively represent their members. So, through the Tripartite Consultative Labour Council (TCLC), we continuously engage our social partners to review and see how best they can represent their employees or members.

 

Madam Speaker, we may not dictate because it is a democratic right for an employee to choose where to belong.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr J. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Minister for responding to my questions that I have posed so far. I want to say that the hon. Minister has also answered questions (b) (d) and (e) in my previous questions. I want to draw her attention to questions (a) which is abuse and (c) on the time or hours that workers that are subjected to.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that they do routine inspections to find out as to whether there are these abrogations. Could the hon. Minister be in a position to state statistically how many cases of both physical and verbal abuse that our people are subjected to especially in the mining sector. Coupled with the long working hours, could she also state as to whether overtime is mandatory or optional for an employee.

 

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, on the number of inspection statistics, I want to come back and provide that information correctly as this did not form part of what was asked for our preparation.

 

Madam Speaker, on whether overtime is mandatory or optional, it is the latter.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Looking at the time, we need to make progress.

 

OPERATIONALISATION OF MINI-HOSPITALS IN NGABWE

 

256. Mr Kolala (Lufubu) asked the Minister of Health:

 

1. when the three newly constructed mini-hospitals in Ngabwe District will become operational; and
2. how many health workers will be deployed to each hospital.

 

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, the three mini-hospitals that are currently at different stages of construction are expected to become operational in the first quarter of 2022, after completion of the construction works.

 

Madam Speaker, the number of health workers to be deployed to the three mini-hospitals in Ngabwe District will be dependent on the amount of funds that will be released by the Treasury, for net recruitment of health workers in 2022 and beyond.

 

Madam Speaker, I can actually add that the number of health workers to be deployed to these mini-hospitals will also depend on the agreed structure.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member of Parliament for Lufubu, any supplementary question.

 

Mr Kolala: No further question, Madam Speaker.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

PROVISION OF CLEAN WATER IN BWANA MKUBWA

 

257. Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba) (on behalf of Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa)) asked the Minister of Water Development and Sanitation:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to provide clean water to the residents of the following townships in Bwana Mkubwa Parliamentary Constituency:

 

1. Upper Ndeke; and

 

1. Katondo;

 

        b. if so, when the plans will be implemented;

        c. what the specific plans are; and

        d. if there are no such plans, why.

 

The Minister of Water Development and Sanitation (Mr Mposha): Madam Speaker, sorry, I do not know, is it Question 257 or 258? I seek your guidance.

 

Mr Menyani: Sorry, Question 258.

 

Madam Speaker: No, it is Question 257, according to – There were changes here and there. May be the numbers changed. The one dealing with plans to provide clean water to some townships in Bwana Mkubwa in Parliamentary Constituency, in Upper Ndeke and Katondo.

 

Mr Mposha: Thank you for that guidance, Madam Speaker, but I see that on the system, it is still showing Question No. 258. I think it was not updated. However, I will go by your list.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to provide clean water to the residents of Upper Ndeke and Katondo. The plans are currently being implemented and works commenced in July 2018 and is expected to be completed in the year 2022.

 

Madam Speaker, the specific plans to improve the supply of clean water in Upper Ndeke and Katondo townships include other areas under Bwana Mkubwa Parliamentary Constituency. The plans include the implementation of the Kafulafuta Water Supply System Project (KWSSP) under which Kafulafuta Dam is being constructed.

 

Madam Speaker, under this project, construction of a reservoir tank, network replacement in selected areas, customer connections and installation of prepaid meters and extension of water supply network will be undertaken.

 

Madam Speaker, as alluded to above, there are plans to provide clean water to the residents of Upper Ndeke and Katondo townships.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, in Upper Ndeke Township, a good number of parliamentarians will agree that there was a time when Radio Phoenix would even put a segment on water issues on one of its  news slots as one of the signs that the news was about to start.

 

Madam, according to the hon. Minister’s answer, the water system project in Upper Ndeke will be completed this year, 2022. Is the hon. Minister sure that by 31^st December this year, Upper Ndeke will have water?

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, indeed, the question is very simple. It is our hope and desire that this project will be completed by the close of 2022 and that the people of Upper Ndeke will have clean and safe water. We hope that we will be able, all things being equal, to complete this project by the close of 2022.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

_______

 

MOTION

 

ADJOURNMENT

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

 

Question put and agreed to.

_______

 

 

The House adjourned at 1851 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 3^rd March, 2022.

 

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