Friday, 5th November, 2021

Friday, 5^th November, 2021

The House met at 0900 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

______

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Chief Whip and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mulusa): Madam Speaker, let me acquaint the House with some idea of the business it will consider next week.

Madam Speaker, on Tuesday, 9^th November, 2021, the Business of the House will begin with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by the presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will resume the debate on the Motion of Supply on the 2022 National Budget.

Madam Speaker, on Wednesday, 10^th November, 2021, the Business of the House will start with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by the consideration of a Private Member’s Motion entitled “Introduce National Heritage and Cultural Week” to be moved by Mr S. Chanda, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency. This will be followed by the presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then continue with the debate on the Motion of Supply on the 2022 National Budget.

Madam Speaker, on Thursday, 11^th November, 2021, the Business of the House will commence with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider the presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. After that, the House will continue with the debate on the Motion of Supply on the 2022 National Budget.

Madam Speaker, on Friday, 12^th November, 2021, the Business of the House will start with The Vice-President’s Question Time. Thereafter, the House will deal with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. The House will then consider the presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Then the House will continue with the debate on the Motion of Supply on the 2022 National Budget.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

COLLECTED TOLL FEES

74. Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning:

how much money was collected, countrywide, as toll fees, from 2016 to August, 2021, year by year;
which toll plaza collected the highest amount;
how many toll plazas were under construction, countrywide, as of August, 2021; and
when the construction will be completed and the plazas become operational

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, a total of K6.383 billion was collected in toll revenues from 2016 to August 2021, and the year by year, the breakdown is as follows:

Year No. of Toll Stations Amount

in the Country

2016 17 K465 million

2017 24 K668 million

2018 25 K909 million

2019 34 K1.212 billion

2020 36 K1.551billion

2021Jan-August 37 K1.578billion

Madam Speaker, the toll plaza which has collected the highest amounts since 2016 is the Katuba Toll Plaza.

Madam Speaker, as of August 2021, no toll station was under construction in the country.

Madam Speaker, since no toll station is under construction, part (d) of the question is not relevant. If there is nothing to construct, then, there is no time when that nothing comes into operation.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, does the Government have any plans to construct additional toll plazas, considering that they have proved to be a good source of revenue for the Government? If yes, which are the likely locations in the country?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, toll stations may be constructed as and when there is a business case for justifying the expense, because it will be pointless to construct a toll station which collects a very limited amount of money and therefore cannot pay for itself.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, I seek clarification from the Government concerning the toll fees which motorists pay. Primarily, the idea of toll gates was to raise revenue. What was the sole purpose of this revenue? Was it specifically for road construction only or was it to create an avenue for the Government to get resources for national development?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, all the money collected goes back to the road sector to repair and construct roads.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kamondo: Madam Speaker, the people of Zambia were made to believe that once they start paying the toll fees, the roads were going to be maintained. What is the position of the United Party for National Development (UPND) or the New Dawn Government going forward because the people are complaining that the roads are not actually being maintained? What is it going to do with the funds? Previously, very little money was collected, but we have now made some progress.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, the money collected from toll plazas obviously is a limited amount, but it has been increasing, as we have seen. By the end of the year, it is expected that K2.2 billion will be collected. However, the needs of the road sector are far beyond what is being collected. So, funding outside the toll plazas such as subventions from tax revenues in general and financing from both inside and outside the country will be required to complement what is being collected at toll plazas to deal with all aspects of the roads, that is, construction, repair and maintenance. As of now, what is being collected at toll plazas is not enough.

Madam Speaker, I must also add that the pressure to construct so many new roads increases the demand for maintenance and repairs, because the more roads the Government constructs, the more it spends on maintenance and repairs. Therefore, going forward, as soon as we get some kind of debt relief, more money can be added for road construction to complement what is currently being collected.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, does the New Dawn Government have plans to reduce the toll fees in line with its campaign promises? Someone who drives from Kitwe to Lusaka pays K160 which I think –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Chama North, just ask a question; do not debate. You have already asked the question, so, I will give the hon. Minister the opportunity to answer the question.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, does the Government have plans to reduce the toll fees because currently, they are quite expensive?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, in the first instance, I do not think we promised to reduce the toll fees. I am hearing that for the first time. In any case, the hon. Member has serious problems with his road that he has been talking to me about in the past few days, but now, he is saying that I must reduce the toll fees. Honestly, if we have to do something about that road, it automatically means that he must wait even longer before it can be attended to. So, there are no such plans.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Madam Speaker, is there any category of motorists that is exempted from paying toll fees?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, obviously, in every situation, there are always exceptions. If, for example, an ambulance is passing and life is under threat, we cannot insist on toll fees unless we want a death to happen right there. So, in general, there are exemptions such as in emergency situations such as when ambulances and the Head of State are passing or security vehicles are rushing somewhere.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, at the toll point on the Mpongwe/Luansobe Road, motorists are made to park their vehicles in the middle of the road and then walk a good ten meters to the office to make a payment. When is the Government going to improve the infrastructure at this point whereby motorists will be made to pay whilst seated comfortably in their seats like at other toll points?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, clearly, works at the toll point have not been completed or are not yet at a level which is acceptable and that is being attended to. Once it is ready, motorists going in that direction will be just behave like everybody else. So, it is work in progress.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika Central): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for according the people of Mpika an opportunity to ask the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning a question, and it is good to see you back, on time.

Madam Speaker, like the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has rightly put it, money collected from toll gates is meant for the maintenance and rehabilitation of roads. In Mpika, there is the Chilonga Toll Plaza. Despite that fact, our roads, like the one that goes to TAZARA and Kamwanya, are dilapidated. Where does the money go? Has there been a point when money has not been used for the intended purpose and has been diverted towards something else?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, toll fees are national revenue. They go into the national pool and then the system decides which areas at a particular point are absolutely desperate, and that is where the money goes. Had it been a case of saying that because the money is collected here, therefore, it must be used here, you can imagine what problems would emerge. For example, right now, some of the big collection points are the Michael Chilufya Sata Toll Plaza and the Katuba Toll Plaza. These are the biggest collection points, and then you say the biggest collection points must utilise the money. What would happen in other constituencies? So, the revenues are consolidated and a plan is made as to where we need to intervene right there and then. Of course, eventually, all areas will be covered. However, remember what I also said, the revenues are not enough. Right now, the road the hon. Member is talking about is in bad state. The Sesheke/Kazungula Road and several others are in very bad state, but the money that is being collected is not even enough to address those absolutely desperate situations.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Malambo (Magoye): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister is aware that the road between Mazabuka and Magoye or Magoye to Monze is currently in a very deplorable condition. Now that we are on the onset of the rains, how available is that money to patch up that kind of road to ensure that people can, at least, have a passable road.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, the programme to collect revenue is, of course, under the Ministry of Finance and National Planning under the National Road Fund Agency (NRFA). The money is available to the sister organisation, the Road Development Agency (RDA), which is under the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development. Those are the ones that determine which areas require immediate intervention. So, maybe, the hon. Member may wish to ask the question that will be directed at the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development and it will provide an answer.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr E. Tembo (Feira): Madam Speaker, does the ministry have plans to engage private business persons to construct roads through either a Public-Private Partnership (PPP) or otherwise and to, thereafter, collect toll fees for a specified period and later on hand over to the Government?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I indicated very clearly that the tolls that are collected are not enough to deal with all aspects of roads such as construction, maintenance and repair. Further, the Treasury also does not have sufficient funds to attend to all roads in the manner citizens would want to see them. That being the case, the programme that the hon. Member is talking about is on. In the next coming few weeks, more details will be coming through soliciting for proposals on the construction of roads under the PPP model, which is what he is describing.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Sefulo (Mwandi): Madam Speaker, one of the challenges of toll stations is that they are meant to handle a lot of cash transactions. Is there any emergent plan, especially for foreign travelers, to make sure that cards are given at entry points to reduce the risk that toll collectors have of handling cash.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, indeed, the electronic toll collection system is already available in certain stations, but going forward, that is going to be expanded. However, for now, the other thing is that very soon, cards such as Visa Cards and similar things like that will be integrated into the system so that none cash forms of payment may also be made.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chewe (Lubansenshi): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the responses he is providing for the House. The hon. Minister indicated that the sole purpose of constructing these toll plazas is to raise resources for the repair of roads, and at the same time to construct new ones. This is the more reason the Government engaged various contractors to perform that duty. May I know from the hon. Minister when he is going to pay these contractors who have done a good job in terms of road construction across the country. As I speak right now, in Lubansenshi Parliamentary Constituency, …

Hon. UPND Members: Ask your question.

Mr Chewe: … all contractors have left their sites, but after doing some works. Those contractors engaged a good number of employees who are yet to be paid. Additionally, the Patriotic Front (PF) made a serious commitment to make sure that roads were worked on.

Mr Sing’ombe: What is your question?

Mr Chewe: The question is: You are in charge, when are you paying contractors so that they can sort out issues that are pending?

Madam Speaker: The issue of the payment of contractors and collection of toll fees, I do not know if they are related, but the hon. Minister is here, let him answer.

Dr Musokotwane: Indeed, Madam Speaker, I think we are beginning to drift away from the core of the question, but I will provide an answer.

Madam Speaker, the issue of the non-payment of contractors is something that I think I have referred to in the past few days. Under the previous Government, there was no control. Contracts were just given out any how…

Mr Mwiimbu: Like seeds.

Dr Musokotwane: … without taking a look at whether there was ability to pay. As of now, I think there is probably about US$1 billion in arrears to road contractors. How did that arise? It was because people were just giving out contracts like they were buying each other bottles of beer …

Mr Mulusa: Or sweets.

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

Dr Musokotwane: … without looking at whether there was money to pay for them. So, there is a problem now, but we are going to deal with it. We shall make announcements of the measures that are being taken to dismantle those arrears, but it will take time because care and due diligence was never made when these contracts were being given out.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Simumba (Nakonde): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the people of Nakonde an opportunity to ask the hon. Minister a question. If really the money which is collected from tolls is meant for the maintenance of roads, what is it then that the people of Nakonde have done for them to deserve dilapidated roads?

Hon. UPND Members: It is because of the PF.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question. Obviously, I am very much aware, from the information from my colleagues, that the road in Nakonde is in a very bad state. It is in a bad state because at the time when it was beginning to show signs of failure, several years ago, it was not attended to.

Madam Speaker, this is the folly of just giving out contracts any how without a plan.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Had things been done properly, the first priority would have been to look at trunk roads like the one in Nakonde. It is a very important road because most merchandise passes through there. So, the plan should have been to deal with the failure before it became a problem in the manner that it has, but they were busy giving out contracts here and there, in Chalala and so on and so forth, leaving out key areas. So, I am sorry, but the road will be attended to, hon. Member. It is a very important road because most of the traffic carrying our merchandise in and out of Zambia passes through Nakonde. So, it will be dealt with.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I can see the hon. Member for Nakonde is smiling now.

Interruptions

Mr Simumba: Give us the 5 per cent.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Mkushi North.

Mr C. Chibuye was unavailable.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, I do appreciate the responses coming from the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning although I am a bit concerned when he starts saying contracts were given out without planning. People need roads. He was here on the left side of the House and every day he was asking about roads.

Madam Speaker, I know that not too long ago, there was a project called ‘Formula One’ which we inherited from him. There were no toll gates that time.

Interruptions

Mr Sing’ombe: What is your question?

Hon. UPND Member: Is it a point of order or what?

Mr Kampyongo: The question is –

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I think there is a lot of excitement.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: I heard somebody saying; “Thank God it is Friday” somewhere. So –

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Please, can we have some order.

Mr Kampyongo: So, the roads that were constructed were needed by the people of Zambia.

Hon. PF Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: The people of Zambia need the road network everywhere, but like he said, resources could be limited. So, when does the hon. Minister get back here, with the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, with a plan which will be focused on the resources that they will have so that those roads that have not been completed can be completed? People need roads. So, when we were giving contracts, we knew that people needed roads where we were giving contracts. When are you going to come back here with a comprehensive plan, with the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, so that we can know when these roads are going to be completed?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu for that question. Indeed, people need roads, but the answer to providing roads is not in giving out contracts in a wild manner whereby you do not look at resources, but anyone who comes, a contract is given and so on and so forth. Unlike in the ‘Formula One’ where contracts were funded, contracts were not being funded in this case. They were just given willy-nilly and now we have a problem.

I am pretty sure, Madam Speaker, that my colleague in the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development at some point will come to announce which roads will be worked on by Public-Private Partnership (PPP) and which roads will be repaired using our own resources, something which was never done in recent years. What we recall, Madam Speaker, is way back in 2012/2013 when a plan was announced, but that plan was just a plan to deal with roads in one section of the country.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: For the rest of the country, they said, “Wait, you will come later in Phase III.” By the time we came to Phase II, the country was already heavily indebted. There was nowhere else to borrow. So, for those who were told to wait for Phase III, it has never happened.

Dr Katakwe: You see now.

Dr Musokotwane: So, Madam Speaker, I am sure the brother there (pointing at Eng. Milupi) will come, at some point, to announce a well balanced plan to the nation.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his responses which I have been listening to carefully. I have noticed that there has been an increase in the revenue collected. The hon. Minister has also bemoaned the fact that too many contracts were being given.

Madam Speaker, does the hon. Minister think that we would still be in this situation if the revenues that were being collected in the past were properly used to pay contractors? If not, what changes is he going to make at the National Road Fund Agency (NFRA) that are going to improve this current situation we are in?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, indeed, that is a very important question. I wish I could answer it with knowledge, but clearly, I do not know how money was being utilised in the past with respect to roads. That said, going forward, we will try as much as possible to be transparent. In fact, we will be transparent. We will be able to tell you which money is available and how it is being applied so that everybody is in the know.

I know the hon. Member is passionate about these things. Some of the roads, especially in places such as the one he represents, may be undertaken using the PPPs. So let us work together to find contractors who can work on those roads on a PPP arrangement. We have a lot of hope that many of those roads on the Copperbelt, for example Mufulira and Ndola, can be done under the PPP and that we will serve our people equally well.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

CORRECTIONAL FACILITY CONSTRUCTION IN CHIENGE

Rev. Katuta (Chienge) asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security:

whether the Government has any plans to construct a correctional facility in Chienge District;
if so, when the plans will be implemented;
what the estimated cost of the project is; and
what the estimated time frame for the completion of the project is.

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Government has embarked on infrastructure development for the Zambia Correctional Service in order to provide humane custodial services to inmates and to decongest correctional centres. The Government has plans to construct a modern correctional centre in Chienge District.

The plans to construct a correctional centre will be implemented when ongoing infrastructure projects which are at 80 per cent and above are completed and when funds are made available. The estimated total cost for the construction of a correctional centre in Chienge District, which has a holding capacity of 384 inmates is K69 million.

Madam Speaker, the estimated time frame for the completion of the project is two years from the date of commencement.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, they say that love is a two way thing. The people of Chienge have shown the United Party for National Development (UPND) love. I am grateful for the answer the hon. Minister has given. However, I would like to see that love given back to the people of Chienge. We heard of a police man assaulting or raping, if I can use any of those terms, female inmates. We have no cells as well in Chienge. So, instead of the plans, is it possible for Chienge to be given that special treatment because the people love the UPND so much?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chienge for the love she has for the people of Zambia and in particular, the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government, which was voted for overwhelmingly in Chienge and we will reciprocate this gesture.

Madam Speaker, the request will be referred to my hon. Colleague, the hon. Minister of Housing, Infrastructure and Urban Development whether he will be in a position to make variations in budgetary allocations pertaining to the construction of various Government infrastructure.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I am sure some loving groundnuts will be coming the way also.

Laughter

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, has the ministry got plans to construct correctional facilities in districts which do have them? For example, Chama District is an old district and it has got no prison facilities.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, you have guided before that as Ministers, we should not be giving statements that have no direct connection to the issue under consideration. The question that has been raised relates to Chienge, in particular. If the hon. Member has any question pertaining to Chama North, he can come back to the House and raise the same question.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I am sure the hon. Member for Chama North has taken note of that.

Mr Mapani (Namwala): Madam Speaker, what factors are put in place or considered when choosing where to construct the correctional facilities?

Madam Speaker: I do not know if the question is clear. We have not gotten the question. If you could repeat your question, hon. Member for Namwala.

Mr Mapani: Madam Speaker, what are the factors that are considered before or when choosing where to construct a correctional facility?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, there are various factors that are considered. Amongst the factors that we consider is the population in the area, the Government security agencies that operate in that particular area and the crime rate in the area.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Shakafuswa (Mandevu): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security for his good answers. It is a well-known fact that our correctional facilities are overcrowded, countrywide. How many correctional facilities are currently being constructed?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, as I indicated earlier, that particular question is outside the ambit of the question that was raised by the hon. Member for Chienge. If my brother wants a comprehensive response from us, he can raise a question and we will answer adequately.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Mandevu, please do put in a question if you have any specific question relating to the building of correctional facilities.

Mr Chisanga (Lukashya): Madam Speaker, would the Government consider a Public-Private Partnership (PPP) as an initiative that can be used to respond to the Chienge urgent need for this facility?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, although the proposal is a tangible one for us to consider, we have not considered specifically that particular issue. The hon. Member may note that we do not have a policy as yet, where we can start running private correctional facilities as is obtaining in countries like the United States of America (USA), but that idea that has been floated by my hon. Colleague may be considered in future.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi): Madam Speaker, does the Government have any future intentions to construct correctional facilities for inmates, specifically those who have babies?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I tend to think that my brother is referring to the issue that led to circumstantial children who are finding themselves in cells with the parents. We, as the Government, are taking measures to ensure that whatever facility that is being constructed and those that will be constructed in future will have space to accommodate circumstantial children.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the responses coming from the hon. Minister. Mine is more or less a rider to the question that was posed by the hon. Member of Parliament for Lukashya. Hon. Minister, it may sound strange, but I know that very soon, you will be briefed on how this Public-Private Partnership (PPP) has worked for the facilities you have now at Mwembezhi. If, indeed, you found it suitable, seeing that it has been tried before and I think it has worked –

Eng. Milupi: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, my point of order is based on Standing Order No. 58, which is on the manner of speaking.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu is a seasoned hon. Member of Parliament who understands procedures. This House has been guided on how to address each other; the address should be through the Speaker. Specifically, Standing Order No. 58 says that a Member shall address another member as he, she, his or hers and not you and yours.

Madam Speaker, just this morning, this is the second time that the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu is addressing hon. Ministers as “you” or “your.” Earlier on, when the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning was speaking, he made reference to him as “you.” He also referred to the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development as “your.”Right now, he has been referring to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security as “you.”

Madam Speaker, is he in order to break this Standing Order No. 58?

I seek your ruling on this matter.

Mr Amutike: Suspend him!

Laughter

Mr Amutike: Repeat offender!

Madam Speaker: Order!

Many errors have been made. I think we are still getting used to the Standing Orders. A number of hon. Members of Parliament have addressed each other as “you” and “your.” They have been saying “your Budget” and whatever instead of “he” or “she.” So, please, let us take note of that Standing Order. Let us learn to address our hon. Members appropriately so that we do not by error bring the Presiding Officer in the debate.

The hon. Member for Shiwang’andu may proceed.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, some people are abusing the microphones in the other rooms where they are sitting, which needs to be dealt with.

Madam Speaker, I am happy that the hon. Minister responsible for infrastructure was trying to draw my attention because, indeed, it is more or less like his responsibility to deal with infrastructure for the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security in form of correctional services.

Madam Speaker, I was saying that approach has worked before and I am sure he will be able to be briefed fully. Depending on the scenario obtaining in Chienge, is it something that he can consider pursuing with the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development sitting right behind him so that our people are taken care of? I know it is a tall order and resources are quite limited, but he needs to collapse the box and look at various avenues just like we tried to do.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I am privy to the previous arrangements that were made by my ministry pertaining to the construction of correctional facilities. I am aware that the Government, thought he Ministry of Home Affairs did enter into an arrangement which I do not consider a Private-Public Partnership (PPP) per se, where the current Chimbokaila Prison in Kamwala was given to a private investor in exchange for the construction of a correctional facility in Mwembezhi.

Madam Speaker, similarly, Kamwala Prison was given away to an investor who wanted to build something else in Kamwala in order for them to construct a correctional facility in Mwembezhi. I am aware, but I tend to think that the issue that is being raised by my brother, the hon. Member of Parliament for Lukashya, is with regards to the facility that is currently in place like in the USA, where private prisons are constructed by private individuals and the Government pays for bed space in those prisons. That, I indicated that in future, we may consider and not what transpired in the previous regime.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

KABWE/MUKOCHI ROAD REHABILITATION

76. Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

whether the Government has any plans to rehabilitate the Kabwe/Mukonchi road in Kabwe District; and
if so, when the plan will be implemented.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, yes, the Government has plans to rehabilitate the Kabwe/Mukonchi Road in Kabwe District and will be implemented once funds for the project have been secured.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Halwiindi: Madam Speaker, let me mention that the road in question is the main road for all the feeder roads that lead to farm blocks from Kabwe town and it has not been worked on for a long time. We do not even say that the road has potholes, but many ditches as big as fishponds. This makes it difficult even for the Government to ferry the maize, which the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) has procured from the farmers.

Madam Speaker, farmers also have the challenge of taking their produce to the market and soon, they will start harvesting groundnuts which they sale early. The hon. Minister said the road will be worked on when funds are available, which may be next year. However, I am aware that the Zambia National Service has received a bit of money from the provincial administration for the construction of a few roads. I wish the provincial administration could be guided to at least do some spot improvements on this road to ease the transportation of inputs. The farmers are busy preparing their fields to produce more food. We do not want to hinder their movement to and from town, and the ferrying of maize by the Government from the depots.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, as a matter of fact, I know this road from my previous stay in Kabwe because I used to farm in an area just beyond Mukonchi. However, just to assure the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwe, this road is part of a project to upgrade to bituminous standard the 292 km of Kabwe to Piccadilly Circus to Mkushi, which is the D2200/D207/D214. For her own information the work will also be on the Mpula to Masansa Road, which are the D208 and D209 and the 20 km of Mkushi and Kabwe urban roads in the Central Province.

Madam Speaker, so, the plans are there to in fact, construct a bituminous standard road in that section. This was earmarked for execution using the contractor facilitated initiative (CFI) model of finance.

Madam Speaker, the contract was awarded to Messrs CMC Di Ravenna. However, the works have not commenced due to failure to reach financial closure.

Madam Speaker, I do understand the suggestion that she is making of utilising the Zambia National Service (ZNS) to undertake some of these works. We shall look at her suggestion. However, the cost for the works has been estimated at K6.42 million and we are waiting for the release of funds from the National Road Fund Agency (NRFA). However, as I have said, we will look at the suggestion to utilise the ZNS. I had a discussion with the Commandant yesterday on getting them to be more involved in helping us with work on some of these roads.

I thank you, Madam.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, allow me to remind the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government that this time when people in Zambia voted, they voted for real change. We have been promised by all successive Governments that when funds are available – I believe there is a provision in that contract about the termination of the contract between the Government and whoever was given the contract. Instead of just waiting for the funds to be available, can the Government not go the Public-Private Partnership (PPP) way because the hon. Minister just confirmed that this is a very important road.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, let me make it very clear. In a number of these contracts that were given for road rehabilitation and the construction of new roads, the failure to proceed with the works in a number of cases, is not entirely due to the contractor failing, but due to the Government’s failing to pay the contractor. In a number of cases, even for certified works, in other words, for work that has already been done and has been certified by our engineers that this work has been done. The reason for this has already been adequately explained by my honourable friend, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, as to what caused this situation.

Madam Speaker, going back to her secondary issue, which is on the Public-Private Partnership (PPP), we must be very careful in understanding which roads the PPP model can be applied on. The PPP model can be applied on commercially viable roads where the volume of traffic would make it possible for the investor or the contractor to recoup their finances over a specified time called the concession period. That is why we have identified roads like the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriageway and a number of similar roads. For example, we have engaged with the hon. Member for Chililabombwe who is also the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development in relation to the Chingola/Chililabombwe/Kasumbalesa Road. We all know that if such roads are done properly, the volume of traffic will be such that the investors would be able to recoup their finds.

Madam Speaker, on roads like the one we are talking about, it would be a tall order for people to invest on it to recoup their money and it would take a long time, and therefore, may not be of interest to investors.

Madam Speaker, what we are doing as the Government is identifying these major roads which we are going to work on under PPPs. This will ease the pressure on Government resources such that it will be able to undertake the rehabilitation of works and the construction of new roads on these less attractive roads. When we say these will be done when funds are available, it is not mere rhetoric. We are already going into a new Budget and we will look at these roads and ensure that some resources are allocated so that we can start working on them.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kolala (Lufubu): Madam Speaker, I want to get a direct answer from the able Minister. The answers he is giving are okay, but we need to look at this season. These ponds will not allow us to move when rains intensify. Mukonchi Road, just like the Kabwe/Ngabwe Road, needs emergency attention. What is the Government doing right now? We can wait for next year. If we do, it means there will be no activities during this rainy season because these roads will not allow us to pass.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, as Government, we are fully aware of the predicament a number of communities within various parts of this country will face regarding this issue. What the Government is doing at the moment is identifying areas where there is a possibility of places being totally cut off so that we can direct emergency works, even as we await the start of the use of the new Budget.

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that the 2021 Budget is not only exhausted but, in terms of the road sector, owes contractors, engineers and consultants K14.11 billion. That is how much we owe them. That money that we owe to our contractors in the road sector alone is even more than the amount of money being allocated in the 2022 Budget. I say this so that the House might understand the magnitude of the problem.

Madam Speaker, I ask hon. Members of Parliament in this House that where there is a specific need or where they are fully aware that a particular place might get cut off must get in touch with me or the ministry so that the Government can look within the resources to address those specific issues.

Madam Speaker, for example, the hon. Member for Lundazi has been engaging with me, together with other Members whom I shall not mention, regarding the bridge on the Chipata/Lundazi Road. We understand that as the rains start, it may even wash away the works that are being done and, therefore, cut off Lundazi. We are trying to identify areas like that.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Mufulira talks about the Mufulira to Mukambo Road. These are the sorts of areas that, perhaps, the limited resources, on an emergency basis, can be directed towards. So, please, if you have those issues, do engage with my ministry and with me so that we can determine what can be done to alleviate any disasters.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

WATER RESERVOIRS CONSTRUCTION IN CHIENGE

77. Rev. Katuta asked the Minister of Water Development and Sanitation:

when the construction of water reservoirs in Chienge District will commence;
how many reservoirs are earmarked for construction;
what the cause of the delay in commencing the project is;
what the cost of the project is;
what the time frame for the completion of the project is; and
when piped water will be provided to the residential areas around the district headquarters.

The Minister of Water Development and Sanitation (Mr Mposha): Madam Speaker, the construction of water reservoirs in Chienge District will commence within the fourth quarter of 2021.

Madam, three reservoirs are earmarked for construction on the project and the delay in commencing the project was due to the delayed release of funds from the Treasury.

Madam, the cost of the project is K30 million and the time frame for the completion of the project is twelve months.

Madam, the project commenced in June 2021 and is expected to be completed in June 2022 and the piped water will be provided to residential areas around the district headquarters once the entire project is completed as envisaged in June 2022.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, I like the way the hon. Minister responds. He is so calm.

Madam Speaker, I bring to the hon. Minister’s attention that there were some funds which were provided by a German organisation that I cannot recall correctly, but I know there were funds that we paid for mobilisation to the contractor. Why has the contractor not gone on site? I have heard the hon. Minister talking about the project being completed in the fourth quarter of 2021, but as far as I am concerned I have not seen any project underway. I know it is supposed to start from Nchelenge, but nothing has happened.

Madam Speaker, I know the contractor was given some money to mobilise, so I would like to find out why the contractor is not on site. Perhaps, the hon. Minister has given us the answer by saying the completion is likely to be done by 2022, but I want to know more because there is nothing yet on the ground.

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, let me correct the impression being created in terms of financing. The said project is wholly financed by the Government of the Republic of Zambia and not otherwise. It is a combined project for Nchelenge and Chienge, and it will cost K112 million. However, in answering the question earlier, I took out the component for Chienge alone. So, it is true that some money was released to the contractor for him to mobilise. I want to confirm that K12.4 million was, indeed, released to the contractor to mobilise and he has mobilised starting with Nchelenge. Within the course of this month, he will go to Chienge.

I thank you, Madam Speaker

Mr Mumba: Madam Speaker, let me refer the hon. Minister to the answer he gave to part (a) of the question. If I you him correctly, you said that the contractor will move on site in the fourth quarter of the year. What would be the rationale for the contractor to move on site in the fourth quarter when that is the beginning of the rainy season? How is the contractor going to effectively work in the rainy season?

Madam Speaker: I wish to remind hon. Members not to address the hon. Minister as ‘you’ when asking questions. Refer to him as the hon. Minister so that there is no direct reference to each other.

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I know that with the onset of the rainy season, there is bound to be some disturbances or, indeed, most projects are going to slow down. However, this is not to say that once we are in the rainy season, we have to cancel the projects. We are talking about the construction of water reservoirs and, therefore, we do not have to suspend the project. Like I said earlier, the project is combined and will be implemented in Nchelenge and Chienge. So, in Nchelenge, the contractor mobilised and has already moved on site. However, in Chienge District, the contractor will move on site in this quarter.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi): Madam Speaker, my question is also with regard to the provision of safe and clean drinking water. I know that in the past, there was no equality when it came to choosing which districts the Government should invest to provide a water reticulation system. It saddens me to hear that in certain areas, projects have stalled. The people of Itezhi-Tezhi, just like the people of Chienge do not have access to safe, piped and clean, drinking water. I want to remind the Government that the people of Itezhi-Tezhi just like those in Chienge would like to access water like the people of Lusaka.

Madam Speaker, has the New Dawn Government, which stands on the premise of equality, put in place any robust plan to invest in water systems in new districts like Itezhi-Tezhi and Chienge? Clearly, the Government and the World Bank should invest in water reticulation systems in all the districts so that everyone else can access to safe and clean drinking water.

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I responded to the question asked by the hon. Member for Chienge regarding the project in Nchelenge and Chienge, but that is a totally different question. However, suffice it to say that development is continuous and the New Dawn Government will prioritise the provision of clean and safe water, and it plans to cater for all the districts, particularly the new ones. This will not be achieved in 2021 or 2022, but I assure the hon. Member that all the new districts will be taken into consideration as we plan going forward.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

STALLED LUNGA MINI-HOSPITAL

78. Mr Kamondo asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

why the construction of Lunga Mini-Hospital in Kasempa District has stalled for over 10 years;
when the construction works will resume;
what the cost of the outstanding works is; and
what the time frame for the completion of the outstanding works is.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the construction of Lunga Mini-Hospital in Kasempa District has stalled because the loan agreement with the African Development Bank (ADB), under which it was being constructed, came to an end.

Madam Speaker, the construction works will resume once funds are secured for the project.

Madam Speaker, the cost of the outstanding works is estimated at K2.5 million.

Madam Speaker, the time frame for the outstanding works is dependent on the availability of resources.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kamondo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the answer, but I am failing to understand why the project has delayed even when the Government took note that it may be cancelled at some point. Why did the Government construct new mini hospitals and forget about something that has been pending for ten years? What assurance is the hon. Minister going to give the people of Kasempa going forward?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that follow up question. In governance issues, there is what is referred to as perpetual succession. In other words, when we took over as the Government, what the previous Administration did became our responsibility, whether good or bad. It is, however, not possible sometimes to explain certain lapses like what happened in this incident because, quite clearly, the mini hospital was being constructed under a loan agreement provided by the ADB and the funds were available. There could not have been an excuse why it lasted ten years without being completed.

Madam Speaker, I assure the people of Kasempa and Lunga that we shall complete the mini-hospital. K2.5 million is not a large amount. I am hesitant to say that the hon. Member for the area may wish to direct some of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) towards that project because I know that there is already pressure on the CDF. However, in the coming year, the 30 per cent remaining works on the mini hospital will be completed, so that the people of this area can utilise that facility.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

ADDITIONAL SECONDARY SCHOOLS CONSTRUCTION

79. Rev. Katuta asked the Minister of Education:

whether the Government has any plans to construct additional secondary schools in the following wards in Chienge Parliamentary Constituency:

Lunchinda;
Chibamba;
Chipungu;
Lua;
Chienge;
Ifuna; and
Chipamba;

b. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

c. if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Technology and Science (Mr Mutati) (on behalf of the Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima)): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House and the people of Chienge that the Government has no immediate plans to construct additional secondary schools in Lunchinda, Chibamba, Chipungu, Lua, Chienge, Ifuna, and Chipamba wards.

Madam Speaker, due to the response in part (a), part (b) falls off.

Madam Speaker, the district has adequate secondary schools which the district school going population is yet to saturate.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, I am disappointed to hear that there are secondary schools in Chienge. However, there are close to 300,000 people in Lunchinda and Chibamba or Lupiya area and there is only one secondary school in the area, Chipungu Secondary School, which is being constructed. Many pupils are unable to secure places in secondary schools and I ask the hon. Minister to ignore what he has just said to this House and the people of Chienge that there are many secondary schools in Chienge. Can the Government reconsider providing more secondary schools in areas like Lua, where there is no secondary school and in other wards that the people of Chienge have asked for?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that follow-up question. The district has nine fully operational secondary schools. However, the Government needs to provide staff payroll establishment in upgraded secondary schools, construct additional classrooms, specialised rooms and staff accommodation in eight secondary schools, and there is a need to speed up the completion of Kalungwishi Secondary School.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, our New Dawn Government made pronouncements on the Floor of this House that it will construct schools in only three provinces, that is the Western and North-Western provinces, and part of Copperbelt Province. Has an audit been taken because the grounds on which that decision was made was that those three provinces were left out by the previous Government? Has the ministry taken an audit to verify whether places like Chienge, Chama and many other districts received the so-called World Bank funded schools? This is because our New Dawn Government has just borrowed money or intends to borrow money to construct schools in those provinces. The people of Chienge should not be disadvantaged just like the people of Chifunda in Chama. Has an audit been taken so that the Government rescinds its decision to provide schools only in three provinces?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, indeed, the Government has taken an assessment of the requirements of secondary schools across the country and the decision to allocate the secondary schools in the provinces that the hon. Member has referred to was made on the basis of that assessment. I repeat that, in Chienge, there are adequate secondary schools to cater for the pupils in the district.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

MOTION

BUDGET 2022

(Debate resumed)

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, yesterday, I was about to deal with some text messages which the people of Kalabo sent me to express their happiness over the Budget.

So, finally, Madam Speaker, the Budget, like I said yesterday, is an opener for job creation. For the first time, we are going to expand Kalabo. We are going to do all that we want. Even the number of questions which are going to be presented on the Floor will reduce because of the monies which have been allocated to the deepest rural areas.

Madam Speaker, our schools had no teachers. I wondered when somebody mentioned 700 schools. So, I thought: 700 schools in Zambia where Kalabo exists and it does not receive anything for ten years. We have not had a school in Kalabo, but 700 schools were mentioned, and by several hon. Members from some quarters of this country. However, this time around, because of the New Dawn leaders who really place value on rural parts of this country, all those monies have been allocated so that we are able to develop.

Madam Speaker, the question of accommodation for teachers does not arise. The same Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is going to take care of accommodation for teachers, health workers and everything in the period of five years that we are allocated. Our areas will become towns, as long as the Budget is being implemented effectively.

Madam Speaker, welcome to the New Dawn Government.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Madam Speaker, thank you for according the people of Bwacha Parliamentary Constituency in Kabwe of Central Province an opportunity to also contribute to debate on the Motion of Supply on the Budget presented by the Minister of Finance and National Planning, Hon. Situmbeko Musokotwane, on Friday, 29^th October, 2021.

Madam Speaker, I congratulate the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Hon. Dr. Situmbeko Musokotwane for delivering the Budget proposal for 2022.

Madam Speaker, the theme of the Budget was anchored around growth. I do not have a doubt in my mind that the growth is about the economy. It also talks about job creation and taking development closer to the people. I have no doubt in my mind that taking development closer to the people is taking development to the people in our various constituencies.

Madam Speaker, the only thing that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning forgot to mention during the presentation of the Budget for 2022, is that the previous administration, under the leadership of His Excellency, the past immediate President, Dr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, of the Patriotic Front (PF) while in the Government scored successes when it came to infrastructure development under education, health and the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security, just to mention, but a few.

Madam Speaker, indeed, they may not have been able to see the same and I sympathise with them. There is a bible that I like reading. This book states that they have eyes, but they cannot see. So, maybe, they have eyes, but are not able to see what the previous administration did in their areas and in their constituencies.

Madam Speaker, this New Dawn Administration will be able to employ 30,000 teachers because the PF Government delivered when it came to infrastructure development under the education sector. Schools were built, and I have in mind 115 secondary schools built across the country. I have also in mind 600 primary schools turned into secondary schools. This makes it easier and possible for the New Dawn Government to employ and recruit the 30,000 teachers. It is because of the infrastructure development that has been dotted around the country, especially under the education sector, by the previous administration, which is the PF that this is possible.

Madam Speaker, this is a welcome move, but we would want to see a situation where the 30,000 teachers when recruited are sent out to all constituencies. The priority should be the schools were pupils have been grappling with the pupil-teacher ratio.

As for the abolition of the Parent Teacher Association (PTA), tuition and exam fees, we as the PF are taking it as a step in the right direction. However, we would like to see the timely release of resources especially grants to schools in the New Dawn Government. We do not want to see a situation whereby, the PTA, tuition and exam fees have been abolished by the New Dawn Government and the schools in question do not receive grants on time. That will mean retrogressing and going backwards looking at the gains that the Government of the Republic of Zambia and its people have scored in the education sector.

Madam Speaker, as regards the construction of 120 schools, I remember, during the presentation of the Budget, the hon. Minister highlighted that the New Dawn Government is in the process of contracting a loan from the World Bank. We are talking about constructing 120 schools in the Southern Province, the North-Western Province, the Western Province and Copperbelt Province.

Madam Speaker, when the hon. Minister contracts a loan, he is contracts it on behalf of the people of Zambia. He contracts the loan on behalf of the ten provinces in Zambia. I think that contracting a loan just to build 120 schools in three provinces would be very segregative. I have in mind Kabwe rural in areas like Mumbwa, Ngabwe and Kapiri Mposhi. I talk like this because I am the immediate past hon. Minister of the Central Province and I know that even there, there are some districts and constituencies that are in need of the construction of new schools.

So, it would do for the hon. Minister and his New Dawn Government to contract a loan to construct 120 schools if they could be distributed evenly to all the ten provinces of the Republic of Zambia. We will be talking about uniting the people of Zambia and taking quality education to our young people, our children.

Madam Speaker, I thank you very much for according me and the people of Bwacha Parliamentary Constituency an opportunity to add a word on the debate on the 2022 Budget proposals.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, I am delighted to add my voice to what I would describe as one of the most ambitious and populist Budgets in the history of this country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Wamunyima: Madam Speaker, from the outset, I would like to commend the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for coming to this House and making this proposal. I thank the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for showing political will to advance the agenda of development.

Madam Speaker, when I gave my maiden speech in this august House, I firmly asserted that the good people of Nalolo, whom I proudly represent, have not seen the face of development for many years. However, the grand opportunity to develop various constituencies stands with the Central Government.

Madam Speaker, I will go straight to clearly state that this Budget has merits and demerits. Governments are not elected to be re-elected. They are elected to deliver development to the people.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Wamunyima: The New Dawn Government must not fall in the trap of the Patriotic Front (PF) where populist policies were advanced. I do take deep recognition of the President’s agenda to develop the country, and the people of Nalolo are very happy to hear that the President is willing to take K25.7 million closer to them. The question is, how sustainable is this for the next five years seeing as this budget is centered on two external factors?

The first is additional borrowing, for which I must commend the hon. Minister because it is smart borrowing as it is at a lower cost.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Wamunyima: The second is an envisaged growth in copper prices with an ambitious target of mining close to 3 million metric tonnes of copper.

Madam Speaker, we are creating inelastic expenditure based on factors which the Government is not totally in control of. The people of Nalolo want schools, boreholes, and teachers’ want houses. However, is this sustainable development or is it a populist move?

Madam Speaker, the recruitment of 30,000 teachers is welcome because unemployment is as clear as day light, and so is the employment of people in the health sector. However, all this is being done based on debt, smart debt. What happens when this debt elapses? What happens if we have another climate change disaster and we do not realise the proceeds we foresee to achieve in copper sales?

Madam Speaker, dismantling arrears for retirees is a good move and I commend the hon. Minister. Retirees of this country have for far too long been suffering waiting for payments and some of them are dead. So, this, I commend.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning proposes to borrow K84.2 billion out of the K173 billion of this Budget. The ambitious jump to a 44 per cent increase at face value is good and shows political will, but is it sustainable? Is this going to bring sustainable development?

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Mr Wamunyima: Madam Speaker, when a country is recovering from economic shocks, it is very rare, with proven research from other jurisdictions, to jump and increase expenditure.

Madam Speaker, thirdly, I would like to advance the agenda that employment creation should be the premise of the private sector. In this Budget, the Government seems to want to employ more than the private sector. The K350 million allocated to Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs) in my view or the position of the Party of National Unity and Progress is not enough.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister proposes on page 49 under 219 to remove the 10 per cent Export Duty on maize. Why can we not add value to our maize in this country and then export it? We import a lot of cornflakes, but we want to export maize. We must create value because when we encourage export of maize, we are creating employment in other jurisdictions. I speak from an experience for value chain development that you cannot create value chains in another country while relying on a depleting resource. However, the hon. Minister has done a good job in trying to refinance the debt position and to relook at other options that may restore the dignity of this country. We look forward to the 2023 Budget to see if we will harvest the returns.

In summary, for me, this budget is ambitious; it is good, but based on an opportunity cost, which may not be sustainable. We may not reach those mining levels of 3 million metric tonnes of copper. Therefore, I would like to submit to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to look at the proper diversification of the economy. It should be realistic. The agricultural sector must be an alternative. We cannot rely on mining continuously.

Lastly, we must not politicise development. Development must be across left and right of this House. If we say we encourage the export of maize then, we are importing over 20,000 tonnes of cornflakes, why not encourage SMEs to establish industries? Why not encourage SMEs to establish rice plantations in the Western Province?

Madam Speaker, the diversification agenda is not really coming out in this Budget. It is a good …

Hon. Member’s time expired.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Mr Elias M. Musonda (Chimbamilonga): Madam Speaker, I am very grateful for the opportunity to debate the 2022 Budget proposals on behalf of Chimbamilonga Parliamentary Constituency. From the outset, this Budget does not balance on the expenditure side. There is an understatement of K37 billion in terms of details. This immediately gives rise to speculation and an inevitable loss of confidence in the figures. To allay and avoid speculation on these figures, a line called ‘other expenses’ could have been inserted which shows the K37 billion. This action would have probably carried us along by prompting us to look out for details of what constitutes the K37 Billion in the Yellow Book once it is presented.

Madam Speaker, the next issue I would like to address is the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) allocation. I welcome the increase of the CDF from K1.6 million to K25.7 million although it does not take into account equity issues across constituencies. However, I am averse to the abnormally expanded responsibilities under the new CDF allocation for the following reasons: There are about twenty-six Government departments in each district and all these will depend on this paltry K25.7 million. The bursaries should have been a responsibility of the Central Government, with CDF probably catering for a few cases not captured or left out by the Central Government, the out layers. Equally, construction works involving schools, clinics, local courts, bridges, dams et cetera, should continue to be a function the Central Government with the CDF reserved for works of an emergency or disaster nature and the usual one off developments that the CDF has been traditionally used for.

Madam Speaker, the line ministries are merely abdicating their responsibilities by shifting youths and women empowerment programmes to CDF. It is my view that this CDF which is just 2 per cent of the National Budget, is inadequate to cater for all these expanded scope of work. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is prodded to reconsider – (inaudible)

The next issue, Madam Speaker, which I would like to address is on Mineral Royalty Tax. Currently, it is paid as a fixed tax by both loss making and profit declaring companies. Its net income to the Zambian people in the last twenty-five years only Kansanshi Copper Mine and Kalumbila Mine have been declaring profit and paying both Mineral Royalty Tax and Company Income Tax. They are both owned by First Quantum Minerals (FQM). In real terms, only one company has been paying Company Income Tax. With the proposed tax concession that the Government is giving, even FQM Company Income Tax will disappear, but this is the time the Government on behalf of Zambian people should be maximising benefits from the mining industry due to high metal prices. Mineral Royalty Tax will now be a deductable cost from profits before tax.

Madam Speaker, it is worth noting that one mining company indicated that it would invest around US$2 billion in Zambia if Mineral Royalty Tax was made deductable and increase production to not less than 2 million tonnes. With this promise, there are likely to be two outcomes. One, this company will benefit from these concessions, make supper profits and externalise the money. There is no law to make them accountable over the promise of investing the US$2 billion. The minerals will be mined and taken out (inaudible).

Madam Speaker, the same money saved from tax concessions after exporting Zambian minerals will be brought back for reinvestment. This means that Zambians will recapitalise these mines through the foregone tax revenue. The question to ask is: Why do mining companies love Income Tax? It is simple transfer pricing and exaggeration to – (inaudible). On the other hand, they hate Mineral Royalty Tax because it is based on extracted minerals and it is easy to administer by the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) and it is difficult to cheat. In Zambia, most mines are privately owned. So, why should we give such concessions?

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I will describe this Budget as a sweet sour budget ,depending on where you stand. It is sour if you are on the left side of the House as you are not convinced whether it is sustainable or implementable. It is sweet if you are on the right side of the House and you wish to appease the public.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Mabonga (Mfuwe): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the people of Mfuwe an opportunity to add a word to the debate on the Motion on the Floor. First of all, I concur with the previous speaker who described this Budget as ambitious. From my point of view, it is an unrealistic Budget. We have been here for almost four months now and our friends on the right including hon. Ministers and the President, came to this House and told us that they will not be able to employ in the next three years because the Treasury is empty. Even the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning said the same. So, now I look at this Budget as a response to the pressure that is coming from the voters because of the so many promises that the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government made.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mabonga: Madam Speaker, based on that, it had to look for a solution. It has seen that it was slowly losing the confidence of the people.

Hon. UPND Member: Ah!

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mabonga: Madam Speaker, I want to remind the hon. Government Members that they are no longer in the Opposition, but are governing this country. So, whatever decision that they are going to make either to please the voters or the Zambian people, at the end of the day, we have to look at the future.

Madam Speaker, my point is coming from the recruitment of teachers that the Government announced to this nation. Everyone was happy and it seemed and felt good to our ears, but we are forgetting that we are already in an era where the economy is not doing fine. Do not get me wrong, I am very happy that my teachers in Mfuwe will be employed, but at the end of the day, I do not want to see a situation whereby five months down the line, these teachers do not even get a salary.

Mr Chikote: Who told you that?

Ms Mabonga: Madam Speaker, we have been here in Zambia where in the past, some Governments could not even pay workers for five months. This pressure to pay workers from a year’s Budget is too much. On top of that, it just looked at two sectors which are health and education. What about the other sectors? What has been budgeted for them?

Madam Speaker, secondly, on the issue of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), I beg to differ on the declaration that CDF has been increased, it has not. What the Government has done is just abracadabra on the numbers.

Laughter

Ms Mabonga: It has gotten money from other Government departments such as health and education, which it has brought to CDF.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

What does abracadabra mean?

Laughter

Ms Mabonga: It is magic, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Proceed with your debate.

Ms Mabongo: Madam Speaker, I was saying that what the Government has done is good. It is good for the Zambian people to hear that it has increased the CDF. They knew that it would excite them. What they did not know is that what they planned for in that CDF was that they were going to get responsibilities from the Central Government and bring them to the CDF.

When I look at the previous Budgets, I note that the CDF has not increased in any way. This is because it only translates to only 2.2 per cent of what is going to be taken down to the community and our constituencies. However, when one looks at the previous Budgets, particularly, ministries such as education and health, one sees that the allocations to constituencies have actually reduced. The allocations used to be higher.

So, this Government has played it very well. That is what it has done. It is good for the people of Zambia, but it means that the Government has taken away – When one looks at the Budgets for the previous Patriotic Front (PF) Government, one sees that the allocations to each constituency would go up to 10 per cent plus. This time around, it is at 2 per cent because the numbers were inflated to K25.7 million. The Government is saying that the CDF has increased. So, based on what I have said, I do not agree that CDF has increased.

Madam Speaker, the other thing that I do not agree with is the increase of electricity tariffs. We all know here that currently, electricity is expensive for a common Zambian, talk of people that are in small businesses.

Now, this Budget is proposing that there will be an increase which will be cost reflective and make everything that has to do with the economy go up. Prices will go up. I have heard songs like the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government is pro-poor and that it cares for the people. However, even when it knows that it is going to increase electricity tariffs and fuel prices, it has only put a measly K50 on top of the Social Cash Transfer Fund that it will be giving to the people.

Madam Speaker, for your own information, the PF Government would have put it at K600. If one looks at the K200 that the UPND Government has given to our fellow poor people, for goodness sake, one would see that a K200 will not be able to buy a bag of mealie meal come next year because everything will go up. So, what am I saying? I am saying that as a country, we could have done better with regards to looking after the poor people. This simply means that the Government has put them ku wire or wall fence.

Laughter

Ms Mabongo: Madam Speaker, I was taken aback by the issue of the Mineral Royalty Tax. I thought we could have done better as Zambia. At this point, everyone knows how precious our minerals are, and people have been dying to get their hands on them. Here we are trying to please an investor who is just making promises by saying he will invest so much money which he may not even invest. What about the future? What about our children? What are they going to find? What we are going to encourage is the looting of these mineral resources because we will attract wrong investors. I believe that even investors must have a responsibility. As the Government, it is our responsibility to make sure that we utilise whatever resources that we have to the best of our ability and to ensure that our future is secured because minerals are not going to be returned. It is not agriculture. It is not like agriculture and other economic –

Hon. Members: Time!

Ms Mabongo: Oh, thank you.

Madam Speaker, with these few words, I say that, ...

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mabongo: ... this Budget is unrealistic and over ambitious. We need to look at it critically. It has wrong figures and we need to go back so that we can have a good document that we can approve.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, as our hon. Colleagues debate, let us give them time. There is so much noise from both sides. Let us control our consultations. Further, debating while being seated is not allowed.

Mr Mwila (Mufulira): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for this opportunity to debate the Motion of Supply. For a start, there is a question mark, overall, on this Budget with regard to the make-up of the K173 billion, which the hon. Minister proposes to spend. It has been highlighted that there is K37 billion which we cannot see where it is sitting.

Madam Speaker, the contention of this question is on page 40 of the Budget Speech. We have seen K172 billion at the bottom and a few figures above there, but, when we add and sum up these numbers, we are coming up with a shortfall.

Madam Speaker, now, this is not a small matter because we do not know the Budget that we are debating. Is the Budget K172 billion or K135 billion? The unfortunate thing is that the hon. Members on your right are trivialising this issue. This is not a small matter.

Madam Speaker, yesterday, someone was talking about being an accountant and trying to convince us that the figures are balancing. For me, I am not just an accountant, but a chartered accountant.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: I have seen that there is a very big problem with this Budget and these numbers. To keep arguing that the Budget is alright is just an embarrassment on the part of the Government and the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. In fact, it is an embarrassment on the part of the President because the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is just a bearer of the message from the President. So, this needs to be looked at. It needs to be addressed.

Madam Speaker, this Budget does not offer any relief to those who are in formal employment. The United Party for National Development (UPND), during its campaigns, promised, especially the civil servants an increment of K1,500 across the board, and this Budget does not have answers to that. Let the country know that this is yet another backtracking on the part of the UPND because the K1,500 which was promised to the civil servant is not there. Instead, what has happened is that a cosmetic increase of K500 to the tax free threshold that has been included in the Budget, but where will that take those in formal employment? It will take them nowhere. Instead, when they look at the revenue side of this Budget, those who are in formal employment will be made to contribute K17 billion in Pay As You Earn (PAYE). In addition to that, we are seeing other costs that are coming as proposed by the hon. Minister.

From next year, there will be increments. When one wants to renew a driving license, get a passport and replace the National Registration Card (NRC) or passport, those fees are going up. That is further punishment that is coming to those who are in formal employment. So, this Budget does not offer any relief to those in formal employment.

Madam Speaker, we have another big pronouncement. That is that Mineral Royalty Tax will be a deductible expense when it comes to tax. This is a betrayal of the Zambian people. The Zambian people have just seen K3.2 billion which should have come into the Treasury go down the drain.

Madam Speaker, Zambia is the second biggest copper exporter, and we are yet to see the benefits as a country of owning this copper and exporting it. However, here is the hon. Minister who comes and says we are giving up K3.2 billion.

Madam Speaker, what this means is that we are only expecting to get K12 billion in Mineral Royalty Tax from the mines on the revenue side of the Budget. Now, let us compare; the workers in this country are going to contribute K17 billion to the Budget and the mining sector, which is the biggest industry in this country, is only contributing K12 billion. We are the second largest copper exporting country in Africa.

Madam Speaker, this is an embarrassment and we should not be happy to say we have the best Budget ever. Well, this is not the best Budget ever and we should be truthful with ourselves. In the copper industry, yet again, we have missed a chance of getting the best in terms of revenue out of it. Today, we actually have the very high copper prices. For the hon. Minister to come and say he is giving out K3.2 billion through concessions, we are actually trading the Corporate Income Tax with pledges that we are not even sure will be realised. There is no legal framework to enforce – Someone can promise to give you something, but not honour the promise. What the hon. Minister has done is to defy the English adage that, “A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.” He has given away the bird that he had in the hands waiting for the two in the bush. What guarantee do we have that the pledged investment will come?

Madam Speaker, what we should do is to collect the Mineral Royalty Tax, the Company Income Tax and also, to collect the investment in the pledges that will benefit the country. This is the time we must get the best out of our copper in this country, but shamefully, this Budget has let the Zambians down.

Madam Speaker, I want now to talk about the free education. I want to tell the hon. Minister that the scrapping away of the Parent-Teacher Association (PTA) fees has an immediate impact on the running of these public schools because we have auxiliary staff working in these schools and they do very important work. They clean the toilets, maintain the gardens and guard the schools and these are paid from the PTA fees. When the Government scraps out this, it puts pressure on the schools. Our expectation then is come 1^st January, the grant that has been promised to go to the schools must hit the accounts of these schools because the schools are going to be in a serious financial crisis. It should not just hit the accounts, but the quantum amount that will be allocated must be significant enough to cushion the gap left by the scrapping away of the PTA fees. This is not a simple matter to us, as Members of Parliament because these are the challenges we will be facing when we visit our constituencies and particularly, schools in our constituencies. It is a very serious issue.

Madam Speaker, let me render my comment also on the recruitment of teachers and health workers, which is a good thing, obviously. I want to remind the hon. Minister and the Government that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government was very methodical. It first of all built schools

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Madam Speaker, the Government built schools, trained teachers and the only thing remaining is to employ them. It also built hospitals, trained nurses and other health workers. The only thing remaining is to employ them. I was going to be shocked actually, if there was no provision to recruit these teachers and health workers.

Madam Speaker, with these comments, I do not support this Budget.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Dr. Mwale (Nchelenge): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to share my views on behalf of the people of Nchelenge, on the Budget. I will straight away look at issues that are in the Budget.

Madam Speaker, firstly, I want to look at the small and medium enterprise sector, where a new ministry has been created. This is a very good thing, which is being done by the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government. The small and medium enterprise cuts across the Zambian economy and it is very key for us to develop our country.

Madam Speaker, through it, we create wealth and employment. We do all this through the small and medium enterprises within our country. I was expecting that the hon. Minister was going to look at the Budget line to do with the small and medium enterprises, especially the serious support that it needs to make this country go forward in terms of economic development. The figure that has been put, allocated or proposed needs to be revised. This country will be developed by us. The issues of investment by foreigners who are coming in our country, that they are ones we are going to give a lot of concessions, will take us nowhere. What will develop this country is when we begin to participate in the growing of this economy. Therefore, I was thinking that the Budget figure allocated to the small and medium enterprise sector is very small and it needs to be relooked at. The small and medium enterprise institutions in any country, for example, South Africa, are what sustain the economy. I am not of the idea of us investing seriously in foreign companies in terms of mines through giving them a lot of concessions because this will not grow our economy permanently. We must grow the economy by ourselves. That way, we would be developing the country permanently. The development of small and medium enterprise companies in our country should fully be supported in our country.

Madam Speaker, let me also look at the issue of the ZESCO Limited tariffs. There is a statement in the Budget indicating that we need to look at cost reflective tariffs. That means already, that we are increasing the ZESCO Limited bills and everything else and yet, we want to grow the economy. I am aware that at one point, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government was negotiating with the International Monetary Fund (IMF). Among the serious conditions it had was the issue of tariffs. This is why somehow, they delayed because they were looking at their intentions to make sure they support the small and medium enterprises in our country to grow. I am worried if we are going to allow the tariffs go up. I am very worried.

Madam Speaker, on the issue of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), yes, it has increased from K1.6 million to K25 million. The challenge is that it has moved with conditions and increased functions. Under the PF Government, what we were talking about was decentralisation and if you look at the councils in terms of human capital, it is in place. We now needed to move the functions from the Central Government to local government. So, the functions in relation to the K25 million where we have tagged a number of programmes, which should be run under the CDF, makes that figure to be very small. If we left the functions that were still under the Central Government away from the increased figure, that amount would have made a lot of sense.

Madam Speaker, a constituency like Nchelenge, you can have one disaster equal to K25million. Nchelenge has islands, swamps and the mainland. Now, if you give it all the functions to deal with the canals, I am worried that it may not serve the very purpose the CDF was created for. There is need that the other functions only move at a time we have fully decentralised. Than increase a figure and move a number of functions to the CDF component. We would have made it very effective if these other functions moved at a time all the functions of decentralisation were moved.

Madam Speaker, lastly, like other hon. Members have said, let me say that this Budget is very ambitious and very experimental. Therefore, we shall be very attentive in the House and critically follow its implementation to make sure the people of Zambia benefit from the ambitious and the serious experimental Budget.

I thank you, Madam.

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the people of Lundazi an opportunity to add a voice to the debate on the Budget, which was presented in its raw form. I stand here, firstly, as a very disappointed hon. Member of Parliament.

Mr Kapyanga: Hear, hear! Hammer.

Ms Nyirenda: I say I am disappointed because I am a woman and in this Budget, we were told that our issues would now be administered under the Office of the President. It brought me so much joy. However, there is no provision given in this Budget that is concerned to make the provision for the operationalisation of the Gender Equity and Equality Commission (GEEC) desk in the Office of the President. I am very sad today.

Ms Mulenga: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapyanga: She needs your support, come and sit here, hammer.

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, already, we have four women in Cabinet and yet we are twenty of us in Parliament. If the Government were magnanimous, enough it would have already included all of us in Cabinet.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, let me discuss the Budget concerning the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). The CDF has been given to the people of Lundazi and yes, we are saying thank you. However, we are taking it with a pinch of salt. How does the Government give K25 million and add twenty-six other responsibilities to this small amount. On that one, I am not happy. There is no way the Government is going to say it has promoted me and then add so much responsibility on me so that I can fail as a hon. Member of Parliament. I am not ready to fail. I know what I went through. So, this is not right. Can the Government add more money to the CDF so that it is able to cater for the building of schools, local courts, clinics and all the other things which have been added to the responsibilities of the hon. Member of Parliament.

Madam Speaker, I want to state here that the hon. Minister of Education was here two days ago and I followed virtually. He was complaining that he needs K70 million to repair blown off roofs, but he quietly shifts that responsibility through the Budget. I am not happy at all.

Mr Kapyanga: Hammer!

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, it is only in Zambia where a company or an institution which is doing very well is given less responsibility. I am talking about the Zambian Revenue Authority (ZRA). The Government has asked the ZRA to collect K79 billion, yet previously, it collected K90 billion. How? The ZRA collected K90 billion, yet it has been given a target to collect K79 billion. What is the rationale towards that? Is it because the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning knows that the ZRA will not be able to collect enough resources to meet the target? Is that why the target has been reduced? I beg for answers from the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Madam Speaker, copper prices are high at the moment, yet that is the time we have chosen not to get anything from it. Copper is a diminishing resource and at the end of the day we will not have it for the next ten, twenty or thirty years to come. Who is going to pay the 30,000 workers and where is the resource going to come from, when we are not taking advantage of the price of copper, which has increased at the moment?

Madam Speaker, employing 30,000 teachers is very good, but alas, we have forgotten the people who made those teachers. We have lecturers at Mukuba University, Chalimbana University and Kwame Nkrumah University, who offered that service and up to day have not gotten their resources which they worked for, for seven to fifteen years. We have forgotten to remunerate the people who worked so hard to ensure that we have the 50,000 teachers.

Mr Kangombe: Read the Budget.

Ms Nyirenda: I have read the Budget! It is my time and my eight minutes.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, order!

Hon. Members, let us allow the hon. Member to debate without any interruptions.

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, I was expecting that women were going to be given some good amount of money. I thought we could survive through the small and medium enterprises (SMEs), but there is only K308 million that encompasses the youths and the women. Does that not make the marketeer at Chimtyulu Market and at Lundazi Market stranded again? Are all these people going to go to the office of the hon. Member of Parliament to receive the empowerment that is required?

Madam Speaker, it is important to look at the population when we are sharing these things. Women are many in this country. Can we be fair in the distribution of the resources that we are giving them.

Madam Speaker, I urge the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to relook at this Budget and ensure that the women are given a good portion of this Budget because they make up most of the country’s population.

Madam Speaker, the other thing is that, if I had to rate this Budget as a scholar, I would say, “repeat and proceed”. I cannot give a clear pass to this type of a Budget.

I submit, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Phiri (Mkaika): Inaudible

Madam Speaker: It appears the hon. Member for Mkaika is not available.

Ms Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I did not indicate.

Madam Speaker: No, it was on lighter note.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order!

ADJOURNMENT

The Chief Whip and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mulusa): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1159 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 9^th November, 2021.

____________

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