Wednesday, 10th November, 2021

Wednesday, 10^th November, 2021

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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Madam Speaker gave the Floor to Mr E. Tembo.

Mr E. Tembo was inaudible.

Madam Speaker: It appears the hon. Member is not there.

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

BRIDGE CONSTRUCTION IN KASEMPA CONSTITUENCY

82. Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

when construction of the following bridges on Nyoka Road in Kasempa District will commence:

Mufwashi;
Maako; and
Mitumba;

b. what the cost of constructing each bridge is; and

c. what the time frame for the completion of each bridge is.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to construct bridges on Mufwashi, Maako and Mitumba crossing points. However, rehabilitation will be considered in future plans when funds are secured for the project.

Madam Speaker, the cost of the project will only be determined once the designs for the crossing points have been prepared.

Madam Speaker, the time frame for the completion of each bridge will obviously be known once the designs for the crossing points have been prepared.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kamondo: Madam Speaker, we the people of the North-Western Province would like to register our disappointment. Yesterday, we were here talking about the same projects, which the Patriotic Front (PF) Government did not attend to. Now, the hon. Minister is also aware that this is one of the things that we are talking about; development in equality. Therefore, is the hon. Minister not thinking of some other ways to help those people and provinces that never benefitted from this development?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I am thankful to the hon. Member for Mufumbwe for that follow-up question. In running a country, I think it is important that there is equity because every citizen of this country, wherever they reside, has equal rights to the resources and facilities of this country. So, we understand what has gone on before. Even as we go into the future, carrying out further infrastructure development, the issue of equity will be uppermost in our minds. However, in terms of the roads that the hon. Member has asked about, the Road Development Agency (RDA) shall undertake an assessment of those crossing points to ascertain the immediate relevant intervention necessary. I ask the hon. Member for Mufumbwe to engage with the RDA so that these crossing points can be clearly identified. The RDA will, therefore, be in a position to make a full assessment so that in future plans, we can include the bridges at those critical crossing points. In the meantime, relevant interventions, if an emergency in nature was to occur, would be financed through the emergency budget lines. So, he should just keep the ministry and RDA informed on the happenings at those key points.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Mufumbwe, any further supplementary questions?

Mr Kamondo: Madam Speaker, I am satisfied with the answer that the hon. Minister has given us.

ZAMBIA/CHINA ECONOMIC DIPLOMACY

83. Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation:

whether the Government had excluded China from Zambia’s economic diplomacy; and
if so, how the Government plans to engage China in rebuilding the country’s economy.

The Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation (Mr Kakubo): Madam Speaker, Zambia has not, in any way, excluded China in the implementation of its economic diplomacy and I will cite some examples that have occurred in recent weeks.

Madam Speaker, when President Hichilema was declared winner of the last Presidential and General Elections, the President met the Chinese ambassador on 18^th August, 2021, at his residence to discuss Zambia’s relationship with China, which is positive and cordial. Further, the House may recall that when the President came here for the first time and addressed the House, the President made recognition of Zambia’s need to engage all partners on the international arena to enhance our country’s economic diplomacy and that included China.

Madam Speaker, in the last two weeks, President Hichilema participated as the only African leader who was invited for a virtual conference that was addressed by the United States of America (USA) President and the Chinese President. President Hichilema also spoke virtually and he was the only African leader invited to do so. This, of course, signifies the healthy relations between our country and the People’s Republic of China.

Madam Speaker, further to this, as Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation, I, in the last couple of weeks, engaged in a telephone conversation with my counterpart in China which lasted forty-five minutes. Some of the key things that we discussed were, first of all, Zambia’s debt to China that was left behind by the Patriotic Front (PF). We discussed how that debt can be renegotiated by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Madam Speaker, further to that conversation, the Chinese Government has donated 1 million doses of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) vaccines. In that conversation, my colleague also confirmed to me that the Chinese Government has donated 3,099 metric tonnes of maize as humanitarian emergency food aid to the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU).

Madam Speaker, in advancing our national interest, China remains a key partner and our intention as Government is to continue strengthening our cooperation with China at the bilateral and multilateral levels. It is in the best interest of Zambia to enhance the promotion of Chinese investment in our country because China contributes to job creation, value addition and skills transfer. Therefore, we want to take this opportunity to encourage Zambia’s businesses and corporations to increase exports to China.

Madam Speaker, as the Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation, China has invited Zambia through myself to participate in the Forum on China-Africa Cooperation (FOCAC), which is a forum on investment, in Senegal at the end of the month. This shows that we have healthy relations with the People’s Republic of China and we will continue to do so. That is the Government’s position.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation. He is my good friend from childhood and I am thankful for the responses. Of concern was the feedback, and I am glad that these issues have been clarified. There is the non-aligned position that Zambia has taken from inception since pre-independence to-date, which stems from the late Dr Kaunda to the former President, Dr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, and the very fact that in terms of global trade, we know the role that China is playing and continues to play. In the next few years, it seeks to become the major economy of the world. So, I am glad that this has been clarified and my question would just be: If there be any loose ends around the Zambia/China policy, how would the Government tighten the screws?

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, the Government does not envisage any strained relations with China. I know the question is hypothetical, but I want to take the opportunity to just assure the House that Zambia’s position on China is very clear. China is a huge global market for Zambia. Therefore, it is important that relations are kept healthy on the economic side and also ensure an exchange of cultures between the two countries.

Madam Speaker, Zambia and China have come a long way from the friendship that was established by the late President; our First Republican President, Dr Kaunda, and the Chinese leader, Comrade Mao. Over the years, there are also developments that have happened even in my own constituency in Kapiri Mposhi and in the Central Province, where we have the Tanzania-Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA) and China has been supportive to Zambia. That is why because of the reasons I have outlined, the negotiations on the debt and enhancement of the trade between our two countries have been cordial. That is very important to us and we intend to protect that friendship.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, I appreciate that the hon. Minister has confirmed that the economic diplomacy between China and Zambia is cordial. I think we all know that the imprints of China are all over; government to government as well as in the private sector.

Madam Speaker, when the President came to address the nation on different issues, I think he talked about industrialisation as a key issue to rebuild our economy. Given that scenario, which partner would the hon. Minister bank on between, let us say, China and a country like America to spearhead industrialisation?

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, I think it is important that the hon. Member and the House appreciates this Government’s foreign policy. Our foreign policy is economic diplomacy and it is anchored on trade and investment. For us to enhance our trade and investment capacity, it is not in the interest of this country to choose whether it should be friends or trade with the United States of America (USA) or China. We are a country willing to trade with any country that wants to do business with us in a cordial manner and respecting the principles of our country. We will not change our foreign policy to advantage any country. We will protect our integrity as a country and we respect the sovereignty of every country that we do business with.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that clarification. The hon. Minister highlighted some of the initiatives that other countries have effected, like the virtual meeting where our President was invited and the Chinese were also invited. He also highlighted that he has been invited to China and a few other interventions that other countries are undertaking in that respect.

Now, our worry is not what other countries are doing to us. Our worry is what the Government is doing. What strategy has the Government put in place to consolidate the relationship with China? Clearly, when the hon. Minister begins to tell us what other countries are doing, that is not answering the question. The question is: What strategies has the Government put in place to consolidate the economic relationship with China?

Madam Speaker: The question that has been asked by the hon. Member for Kanchibiya is whether the Government had excluded China from Zambia’s economic diplomacy. I do not see the issue of strategy coming in, but the hon. Minister is here and he can elaborate.

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, just to clarify to my hon. Colleague, first of all, China was not invited to the same forum as Zambia. The convener was China and in recognising the good friendship between our two countries, the Chinese invited Zambia through the President of the Republic of Zambia. I stressed that he is the only African leader who was invited and that should signal to hon. Members that there is no strained relationship between ourselves and China.

Madam Speaker, further to that, the kind donations that we have received from the Chinese Government is another illustration. The fact that we have engaged China in dismantling the debt that was left by the PF Government is again an indication that we are in cordial relations with China and we are doing business together because trade with China is key to this country. Our two Presidents have been on the phone. Even myself as Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation, I have a direct link with China. We are discussing with my colleague how to enhance business between China and our businesses here in Zambia.

Madam Speaker, therefore, there should be no reason hon. Members should be nervous about our relationship with China. The Chinese Ambassador is a frequent visitor to my office. The Chinese Ambassador and I have a scheduled visit very soon to the facility that China is building for us in preparation for us to hold a successful Heads of State summit for the African Union (AU) just here next door to Parliament.

Hon. PF Members: It is PF!

Mr Kakubo: So hon. Members must not be nervous.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, as we comment, I think let us not bring in issues of it being a Patriotic Front (PF) or United Party for National Development (UPND) project. It is a Government project. It is a project for the people of Zambia.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, I certainly appreciate the responses and the assurances the hon. Minister is giving us, and we trust his word. In diplomacy, we say, “actions speak louder than words.” I am happy that the hon. Minister has indicated that he has been invited for Forum on China-Africa Cooperation (FOCAC). He also recognises some of the major projects we undertook between the Governments of the Republic of Zambia, under the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, and China. The results are there for everyone to see.

Madam, like said, actions speak louder than words. What would the hon. Minister do to just assure the nation and the people of Zambia that indeed, we still have this historical bilateral tie intact with the People’s Republic of China? This question did not come out of nowhere.

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, at the expense of repeating myself, I am assuring the House that they should not be nervous on the relationship between Zambia and China, unless I am asked a specific action that has resulted into the hon. Member being nervous. I have highlighted the bilateral initiatives that we are making between ourselves and the People’s Republic of China. As Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation, I am satisfied that we are in a good space with China.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Amb. Kalimi (Malole): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation. Having served as a Consulate General in Guangzhou in China, I do appreciate the importance of economic diplomacy and the importance that the People’s Republic of China plays in Africa, Zambia in particular.

Madam, I was getting worried when I assumed we were shifting from China to somewhere. However, at least I am comfortable with these assurances which he has given the nation. I can assure him that without China, even America and Britain are nothing. So, I am very happy that at least the New Dawn Government has definitely realised that we are not going anywhere without China. I thank the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation for the assurance.

Interjections

Madam Speaker: That was a comment.

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation for the clarification on the relationship between China and Zambia. It is just a comment on my part. I just want to encourage that the relationship between Zambia, China and Africa as whole should continue at the economic diplomacy level. China is a –

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member you are supposed to be asking points of clarification and not debating or making recommendations. Hon. Member for Kaumbwe, ask your point of clarification.

Dr Mwanza: Madam Speaker, the point of clarification that I want to contribute is that what are the strategies that have been put in place to consolidate the relationship between Zambia and China, considering that China is our major creditor in the debts that the country is indebted –

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member for Kaumbwe has been guided. It looks like he has no point or question. He is not asking any questions. So, we will move on to the next hon. Member.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, thank you so much. Maybe for the benefit of the nation, and I think this is a very important question to the hon. Minister. What is China’s volume of investment in the country right now?

Madam Speaker: That question is asking for detailed information, regarding the level of investment. I believe it would not come in the question that is on the Floor of the House. If the hon. Member wants to ask that question, I advise that he puts in a separate question.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, thank you so much for according the people of Mpika an opportunity to ask the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation a question. I thank the Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation for the aptly put elaboration of what the relationship between Zambia and China is currently.

China has being Zambia’s all-weather friend. In mind is the Tanzania Zambian Railways (TAZARA) that was a gift from China to Zambia and Tanzania, among other infrastructure development that we have as a country. Unlike the western countries whose preoccupation is regime changes in Africa, and also wanting to re-colonise us.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Mpika Central, ask a supplementary question. I like the way the hon. Member for Kasama asks her questions. She does not debate, but asks a supplementary question.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order! Let us follow the good example that has been given by our young hon. Members. Continue hon. Member, but ask a supplementary question.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, thank you so much, I will visit my sister the hon. Member for Kasama for tuitions.

Laughter

Mr Kapyanga: As an assurance to the Zambian people and the China Government, when does the hon. Minister intend to facilitate a trip for His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema to China? Just to show that the relationship is very solid, intact and strong.

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, in responding to my colleague’s question, all the trips that occur when the President travels, are business trips. They are done in a systemic way. When the need arises and when the time is right, the President will visit China, and also, the President of China will be invited to Zambia to visit his counterpart.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Speaker, I welcome the hon. Minister back from Glasgow. I take it up from the hon. Member of Malole because he forgot to ask his question. His question could be that, which I also want ask: Is capitalism with the United States of America (USA), communalism with China or no idea, the policy for New Dawn Government?

Madam Speaker: That is a question is outside the question on the Floor of the House. Let us make progress.

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MOTIONS

INTRODUCE NATIONAL HERITAGE AND CULTURAL WEEK

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House urges the Government to introduce a national heritage and cultural week to celebrate the country’s heritage and cultural diversity.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order! Can we consult quietly. Is the Motion seconded?

Ms Phiri (Milanzi): Madam Speaker, I second the Motion.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to move this Private Member’s Motion that seeks to urge the Government to introduce a national heritage and cultural week to celebrate the country’s heritage and cultural diversity.

Madam Speaker, this Motion borders on who we are as a country. It is a call to celebrate our country’s history, heritage and cultural diversity at a time when politics are polarising our country along regional and tribal lines.

Madam Speaker, this is the message we have constantly heard from our leaders starting with our founding President, Dr Kenneth David Kaunda, late President Fredrick Chiluba, late President Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, former President Rupiah Bwezani Banda, Late President Michael Chilufya Sata, immediate past President, President Edgar Chagwa Lungu and now His Excellency, President Hakainde Hichilema.

Madam Speaker, our freedom fighters such as the late Harry Mwaanga Nkumbula, Simon Mwansa Kapwepwe, Mama Kankasa, among others, have in the past championed the need for us to coexist and unite as one.

Madam Speaker, Zambia officially has seventy-three recognised ethnic groups with different traditions, cultures and customs. This on its own constitutes a huge part of our heritage as a nation. Our National Tourism Policy beautifully states that “Zambia is a rich cultural heritage with seventy-three tribes and diverse cultural traditions which include a variety of annual traditional ceremonies, six museums with repositories of rich cultural, traditional and historic artefacts.”

Madam Speaker, to demonstrate this, Kanchibiya District in Muchinga Province is made up of two tribes, the Bisa speaking people and the Bemba speaking people, who have lived as one. The district also boasts of four Royal Highnesses, namely Senior Chief Kopa and Chief Kabinga of the Bisa speaking people, as well as Chief Mpepo and Chief Luchembe of the Bemba speaking people.

Madam Speaker, before the advent of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19), Kanchibiya District has been the home to the Chinamanongo Traditional Ceremony of the Bisa Speaking people, which draws different cultures to Senior Chief Kopa’s Chiefdom. The ceremony has united our people as one. A few kilometres from Kanchibiya District, is the Kusefya Pa Ng’wena of the Bemba Speaking people, an important traditional ceremony promoting unity and celebrating cultural diversity. This is the same across the four corners of our country, as one is able to see our beautiful cultural heritage and diversity at play.

Madam Speaker, as you may be aware, Zambia boasts of more than 700 natural and cultural heritage sites which include archaeological, historical, geomorphological, geological and anthropological sites. In the south, we have the mighty Mosi-o-Tunya Falls, commonly known as the Victoria Falls. In the north, we have the Kalambo Falls and in the west, we have the Ngonye, locally known as the Sioma Falls. A few metres from here, is the Kabwata Cultural Village.

Madam Speaker, each of us here, both on right and the left, can at least mention one or two heritage sites associated with their constituencies, districts or provinces. The next generation will not come to appreciate us if we do not take a deliberate policy to have a week dedicated to celebrating our cultural heritage sites.

Madam Speaker, in this regard, the Motion emphatically affirms and requests the House to affirm that, indeed, it is not our cultural differences that are dividing us as a country, but our inability to recognise our failure to accept, and our neglect to celebrate these cultural differences as part of our diversity within our nation.

Madam Speaker, we all know that our “One Zambia, One Nation” Motto will not survive if we fail to pass our heritage, languages and faith to the next generation. In this regard, this august House must therefore, make a conscious effort to preserve our heritage and cultural diversity by supporting this Motion.

Madam Speaker, Zambia is part of the global village which, through the United Nations (UN) has recognised the need to celebrate our world heritage and culture. In 1982, the International Council on Monuments and Sites (ICOMOS) suggested through the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation (UNESCO) that, 18^th April, should be celebrated annually as the International Day for Monuments and Sites, most commonly referred to as the World Heritage Day. According ICOMOS, the essential aspect is to mark this day so that it becomes not only a day to celebrate a national heritage, but also a day of international solidarity in favour of strengthening and safeguarding heritage worldwide.

Madam Speaker, international efforts did not end there. The 38^th Session of the General Conference of UNESCO which was held in November, 2015 proclaimed 15^th May as the Africa World Heritage Day, offering all of us as Africans an opportunity to celebrate the continent’s unique cultural and natural heritage.

Madam Speaker, our neighbours in South Africa, despite the majority of the people coming from an oppressive apartheid regime, have found strength in celebrating their heritage day annually on 24^th September.

Madam Speaker, in Europe, Ireland in particular, celebrates its National Heritage Week as part of the European Heritage Days, whose aim is to promote awareness of their built, natural and cultural heritage, thereby, encouraging its conservation and preservation.

Madam Speaker, we are not asking for a holiday, although I can confess that like most Zambians, I love holidays, but we are asking for a week when Zambian families can take time to visit our monuments, heritage sites, museums, watch traditional dances, sample African cuisine and carryout performances to appreciate their heritage with free admission.

Madam Speaker, I believe that the starting point of our cultural heritage is to declare a national and cultural heritage week. I am proposing that the National Cultural and Heritage Week does take the format of the activities of the Sixteen Days of Activism Against Gender-Based Violence. This will be a week when our primary and secondary schools will promote our cultural heritage among their learners, a week when communities will engage and showcase their culture using various means. This would also be a week in which our society and the Government will give awards to persons or institutions that have made an outstanding contribution to the conservation and promotion of our culture heritage.

Madam Speaker, as I move this Motion, I take cognisance of His Excellency President Hakainde Hichilema’s directive to Cabinet to identify all historical sites countrywide in recognition of the contribution made by freedom fighters. Further, President Hichilema has promised to preserve the rich history of freedom struggle by rewriting history in order to ensure that this important information is documented.

Madam Speaker, at a time the education curriculum is teaching us about the rise of Mussolini, the fall of Bismarck or about Hitler, our nation forgets to celebrate its own mighty warriors who united our tribes, established our identity and resisted colonialism. We do not teach in depth the mighty works of our founding fathers and mothers. Therefore, the gesture by His Excellency the President of visiting burial sites of two of our great freedom fighters, the late Simon Mwansa Kapwepwe in Chinsali and Harry Mwanga Nkumbula in Namwala, is itself a clear demonstration that our fathers and mothers sought the celebration of diversity and forged unity across tribes in order for goal of independence and sovereignty to be attained.

Madam Speaker, it is my belief therefore, that alongside this gesture, hon. Members on the left and right of this House should help this Government to promote national unity through our diverse cultural heritage by supporting this Motion. I hope that this Motion will help the Government, now led by someone who prides himself as an accomplished village boy, to unite our people in the diversity of our culture. It is my hope that the Government, through the relevant ministries such as the Ministry of Tourism and the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services will see this week as an opportunity to promote local and foreign tourism. This will further increase our cultural diversity and the need for preservation of our national heritage and cultural diversity.

Madam Speaker, Mahatma Gandhi’s words ring a bell in our minds today and he stated that, “A nation’s culture resides in the hearts and minds of the souls of its people.” The question that begs an answer is how will our young and old continue to keep our nation’s culture in their hearts and souls?

Madam Speaker, with these few remarks, I end my debate and I appeal to hon. Members of this hon. House to support this Motion.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Ms M. Phiri: Now, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, thank you for according me the rare honour and privilege to second the Motion moved by Hon. Sunday Chanda, the Member of Parliament for Kanchibiya Constituency.

Madam Speaker, as I second the Motion, let me start by starting that, as a country, it is high time we identified cultural diversity as a crucial component to national development and social inclusion. This is because, embracing cultural diversity, especially through the preservation of heritage assets, does not only bring economic benefits, but supports the tourism sector. The tourism sector is one of the sectors in our country that has the potential to reduce poverty among our people in both rural and urban areas of our country.

Madam Speaker, it goes without saying that cultural diversity is key to national sustainable development and has the potential to lift communities out of poverty. Further, embracing cultural diversity has the potential to empower our people to take ownership of their past, improve their present and build a better future for their children.

Madam Speaker, as the mover of the Motion has already stated, it is expected that the proposed heritage and cultural week will enhance all efforts to transfer cultural practices from one generation to another. In addition, the heritage and cultural week will also help citizens of this country to understand and appreciate the customs, beliefs, values and lifestyles of different cultures across the country.

Madam Speaker, our children are slowly disconnecting themselves from our Zambian culture and losing pride in our heritage sites. This is due to a lack of understanding of our culture and this poses a threat to our rich culture and unique heritage sites. The proposed introduction of the heritage and cultural week will erase such threats.

Madam Speaker, the preservation of our culture and heritage hugely depends on the political will of hon. Members of this august House who envelope every single culture and heritage site in Zambia. It is my hope that such a progressive Motion that seeks to promote, defend and safeguard our cultural heritage will be supported by all.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, this is a non-controversial Motion and I call upon all hon. Members to support it.

Madam Speaker, with those few remarks, I beg to second and I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague from Kanchibiya for moving this Motion and I also thank the seconder. However, I failed to get the real aim and objective of bringing such a Motion that is flat to this House. Let me elaborate why I think the Motion is flat.

Madam Speaker, there are occasions and events that deserve celebration such as Independence. We attained our Independence on 24^th October, 1964, after a hard battle with the colonialists. We only celebrate that achievement of the nation on one day in a year. What would be the justification for celebrating our cultural heritage for five days or one week as the mover suggested?

Madam Speaker, I am fully aware that our friends in the Patriotic Front (PF) enjoy squandering man-hours.

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: However, I would like to know and get motivated what we would be doing in those seven days of celebrating our cultural heritage and what they call cultural diversity.

Madam Speaker, some of us come from a completely traditional background. I am a fully-fledged headman in Nkombo Village in Mwanachigwala Chiefdom and a recognised one for that matter. In my village, we have initiation ceremonies as often as weekly. That is our heritage. In town here where we are, we see women and men celebrating chilangamulilo or matebeto every week. Those are our heritages and they happen every day. So, what would we be celebrating in one week? I am clearly aware that members of the PF have a preponderance of wasting man-hours such as what we are doing right now, discussing nothing.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, there is a lot of work that we need to do in passing –

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, it is a very well established practice that for a Motion to be allowed, it has to go through a thorough process and that process is approved by Parliament, hence its appearance on the Order Paper.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development in order to state that the Motion, which went through a process and was approved by your officers, amounts to discussing nothing?

Madam Speaker, my point of order is anchored on Standing Order 65. I seek your serious ruling.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Standing Order 65 has a number of paragraphs. Which one in particular hon. Member for Lunte?

Mr Kafwaya: Standing Order 65 (a), Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Standing Order 65 (a) states as follows:

“A Member who is debating shall confine his or her debate to the subject under discussion.”

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Indeed, the Motion is on the Floor and the hon. Minister is giving his opinion. He is not assessing whether or not the Motion was validly assessed by the Clerk’s Office. That is his opinion. When the hon. Members debate, they will also give their opinion to rebut what the hon. Minister is saying. That is the idea of a debate.

Hon. Minister, proceed.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I think there was no thoroughness in the debate of both the mover and seconder of the Motion because they did not even suggest the day, week or month they want us to start those celebrations.

Madam Speaker, some days have been put aside that, we, from the Ruling Party, said no to such as the National Day of Prayer, Repentance and Reconciliation, and the former Government wasted man-hours because we all pray. In my case, I go to church every Saturday and I pray before I sleep and once I wake up, while some people go to church on Sunday. However, the former Government decided to get man-hours, flat on end, and pretended to be holier-than-thou and declared 18^th October as a special day of worship and reconciliation. Who did they reconcile with since they declared that day, which I call wasted man-hours or wasted years? There was no one.

Madam Speaker, let me come back to the subject. I was saying that every weekend, those of us who are traditionalists and culturalists see chisungus. When young girls become of age, the chisungus happen. The mover talked about traditional ceremonies.

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, chisungu is an initiation ceremony for girls who have reached puberty and I think I said that. I am speaking English.

Madam Speaker, the mover referred to Ukusefya Pa Ng’wena and other traditional ceremonies. Those still happen. What special coating does he want us to have? Does he want us to have a special Ukusefya Pa Ng’wena for one week? I know that back home in Kasama, they do not prepare for the Ukusefya Pa Ng’wena overnight. It takes months on end to prepare for this one day. Why would he want a ceremony to last for seven days? I am part of Chieftainess Nkomeshya’s establishment, which is my mum’s place, because I live in Soli land. We prepare for the Kulamba Kubwalo for over one month. Why do they want a special seven days put aside? Whose man-hours do they want to waste?

Madam Speaker, the Americans have always said that if it is not broken, do not fix it. They actually say, “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”. The mover should motivate me and explain to me what value he intends to add to our wellbeing by introducing seven days or one week of jubilation. Jubilation for what?

Madam Speaker, the Victoria Falls that the hon. Member referred to has been our heritage for a very long time. If he wants to celebrate it, he should go there in April when it thunders the most and have a holiday in Livingstone. He can go there for a week alone, but he should not subject the whole country to jubilation for nothing or celebrating nothing.

Madam Speaker, as hon. Members of Parliament think through Motions such as this one, I urge them to motivate their colleagues to see the deliverables in terms of value for the man-hours they want us to squander. I vehemently debate against this Motion. I do not want it at all and likeminded colleagues should say the same. The quicker we dispose of this directionless Motion, the better it will be for our wellbeing because we have a Budget to deal with in this session.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Amb. Kalimi (Malole): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me and the people of Malole this opportunity to contribute to the debate on this very important Motion which every able, sensible and reasonable person should support. I am very convinced that the hon. Members on the right and the left are going to support it.

Madam Speaker, a country without culture and heritage is a dead country. It is no wonder certain provinces do not have chiefs. We do not want to have that. We want chiefs everywhere and tradition and culture to be preserved. National heritage stimulates national pride in one’s history so that we understand other people’s culture. We need to understand the people in Lozi land, and they need to understand the culture in Bemba land and we also need to understand the culture in Tonga land. That is the importance of this Motion.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Amb. Kalimi: People are marrying between tribes. Cultures have died completely and lamentably. We live in a society where we just have “exe yo bally”. Is that what we want to leave for our people and future generations? That is not acceptable.

Laughter

Amb. Kalimi: Madam Speaker, where I come from, we have Ukusefya Pa Ng’wena. If I asked Kayela my son if he knows Ukusefya Pa Ng’wena, he will say he does not know anything. These are the things we want to inculcate in our children.

Madam Speaker, culture and heritage are major social and economic phenomena. The culture and heritage passed down to us from our parents must be preserved for the benefit of all. Whether one comes from the Southern Province or the Northern Province, we are one.

Madam Speaker, we have more than seventy-two tribes and we are intermarrying. We need to understand the culture of the Kaonde and the Lozi. I know that my friends may have a problem with the period of one week. We can even reduce the period to one day as long as we celebrate –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Can we listen to the hon. Member for Malole who is debating.

Amb. Kalimi: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for your protection.

Madam Speaker, one cannot say that the Motion is useless and it has no future just because the mover suggested one week or fourteen days? This Motion was moved by an hon. Member of Parliament and I expect our friends on the other side of the House to propose that the event be for one day rather than dwelling on the period and saying it is useless. One cannot say that.

In an era of globalisation, cultural diversity and its understanding develops mutual respect and renewed dialogue amongst different cultures. Madam Speaker, I know you are a very educated lawyer and you understand the culture of this country. You know that we have different cultural diversities –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, do not bring me into your debate, please.

Laughter

Amb. Kalimi: I withdraw that, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, all I am saying is that we understand cultural diversity very well and I know that this country is anchored on heritage and culture. A nation’s cultural heritage security depends on a consistent basis which includes cultural and historical significance. Without historical significance, the country will not go anywhere.

Madam Speaker, only a progressive person will support this Motion because it should not divide us. It is not about members of the Patriotic Front (PF) or those on the other side. It is about the country and our future. A nation’s culture and its history are morals, beliefs and aims which form the people’s national identity. Only a person who has no values or culture will not support this Motion. The value of culture is not a cultural manifestation itself, but it is the wealth of experience which develops a country. Without this, we are not going anywhere. I fully support this Motion.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, I support the Motion. This is a very important Motion moved by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kanchibiya and I do thank him. I thank the seconder as well as I do the other contributors, the other two hon. Colleagues of mine who have done so in their diversity.

Madam Speaker, this Motion is certainly non-controversial, non-political, and is an important one. Therefore, it is expected that it will be supported. This is why I do so.

Madam Speaker, let us face it, these are very hard times that we are living in. The economy is biting and politics have become so toxic. You want a time when people’s minds can steer away from the toxic politics and the economy which is so bad. You want to hear responses from people that are directing us towards culture and our heritage so that people can commemorate these days and be happy and free in their country.

Madam Speaker, you would be sitting in your sitting room and, boom, there is a question, “Are these reinstatements being done on tribal or regional lines?” This is what we want to veer off for a few days. You want the President to be asked about the Amabila Traditional Ceremony, the Kulamba Traditional Ceremony, the N’cwala Traditional Ceremony and the Kuomboka Traditional Ceremony, instead of getting answer – You see, even descendants of the clique of thieves and descendants of the clique of the puritans can have time to come together in this period and be able to celebrate together.

Laughter

Mr Kafwaya: That is what you want. We know that in this country, there is a clique of thieves and their descendants. We also know that there is a clique of puritans and their descendants.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya: What one wants is for all these people to forget about whether their fathers or your forefathers were thieves. For those who have been ruling and those who have not been ruling, one wants all those people to come together. I think this is the importance that this Motion is bringing. That is how I see it.

Madam Speaker, an hon. Minister, on the Floor of the House, has rubbished the Day of National Prayer, Fasting, Repentance and Reconciliation. You see, I am a christian. I may not be the most perfect christian in this country, but I profess christianity, and my community is largely christian. I hope that all my christian community listened to the hon. Minister. This demonstrates that even though we saw Presidents participate in this day of prayer this year, the Government’s position has been established on the Floor of the House. It is rubbish, according to them. Christians must listen, and listen very carefully and be sure that that one day which the former President, Mr Edgar Lungu, declared for them is being seen as though it is a waste of time. It is nonsense. It is a desire for wasting man hours.

Mr Sing’ombe: Motion!

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I am within the Motion. This Motion will ensure that my three children and I can have a chance – and by the way, my children have three tribes in them; Bemba, Tonga and Nsenga. This means that they should be able to learn the Ukusefya Pa Ng’wena Traditional Ceremony, the N’cwala Traditional Ceremony and the traditional ceremony which happens in ...

Madam Speaker: Order!

Can we have some silence in the House!

Mr Kafwaya: ... in the northern part of the Southern Province so that they are able to be grounded in information on where their forefathers came from and what built the character that they see in their father and mother. This is my plea and conviction. If well meaning hon. Members of this House can support this Motion, the Government can determine what days to put in place.

Madam Speaker, the mover of this Motion is not holding the Government to ransom that it should give us this day in the first week of January or the second week of December, no. He is just saying that give us a week. Give this country a week where this country can commemorate its heritage and culture.

Madam Speaker, commemoration does not mean celebration as has been established by the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development. In this country, we have an event that we commemorate, which is the sixteen days of gender activism. It exists in our country. Do we spoil man hours during this commemoration? The answer is no. People simply sensitise each other about the importance of gender in our politics, economics, family life and social lives. We do not waste man hours. This is the same thing here, it is commemoration, dedicating some time to teachings, going round and seeing the importance of all of these heritage sites that we have, and educating our people.

Madam Speaker, why should we, today, forget about the Mosi-oa-Tunya and only remember it as the David Livingstone when, in fact, the Victoria Falls existed centuries prior to David Livingstone’s coming to Zambia. Ten, fifty or hundreds of years from now, our children’s children will not even know that that is Kumenda abila. They will never know that. However, if we dedicate time and resource to this commemoration...

Madam Speaker: What is Kumenda abila?

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, Kumeda abila is the Victoria Falls.

Interjection

Mr Kafwaya: It is the Victoria Falls.

Interjections

Mr Kafwaya: It is the Victoria Falls. Madam Speaker, ...

Madam Speaker: Order!

Let the hon. Member continue. I thought it was the Mosi-oa-Tunya. Maybe that is the equivalent in Bemba or in Tonga, I am not sure.

Laughter

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, equivalent of Bemba or Lozi. So, this is what I am talking about. I would like this country to dedicate some hours and veer off from these toxic politics of tribalism, regionalism and all these vices which are dividing our country.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Nkulukusa (Katuba): Madam Speaker, I thank you very much. Mine is basically to highlight two or three points.

Madam Speaker, the first one is that this country has traditional ceremonies and traditional activities from January to December. Therefore, we must be very careful. For example, if we introduced the proposed heritage and cultural activity in a particular week or day, and assuming that comes around April, we might open up a lot of other debates, again, as to why it has come in April when the Kuomboka Ceremony takes places. Instead of healing the country, we may end up splitting the country even further just by the choice of the week itself.

Madam Speaker, if we took the week where we celebrate the Umutomboko Ceremony, others might still say why that week? Is it to celebrate Umutomboko? So, we must be very careful on how we move.

Madam Speaker, secondly, the World Tourism Organisation (WTO) has a week which it calls ‘The Tourism and Culture Week’. This is the week before the 27^th of September, every year. This week is given to each country to celebrate its culture and diversity. Many countries, including Zambia, have been utilising this week to celebrate their diversity and culture. It is usually a neutral week that we celebrate because it is given to us by the WTO. It means that whichever week the WTO chooses, it does not consider any part of this country, but the world as a whole.

I do not know whether this week is not enough. All these activities, for the past ten years that I have been involved in tourism and art, we have been celebrating. These celebrations culminate into one celebration on 27^th September when we have many cultural dances and activities. Sometimes, we even have a lot of panorama and carnivals. So, I do not know whether we are saying this day and this week are not enough. The WTO gives each country a day to celebrate its cultural activities. It does not want countries to celebrate the world culture, but it wants each country to celebrate its own cultural diversity. Zambia celebrates Zambia’s cultural diversity, and Zimbabwe celebrates Zimbabwe’s cultural diversity. It is in this week when we organise all those things and come together. It is basically seven days before the 27^th of September.

Madam Speaker, my caution is that we may be reinventing a wheel that is already there or we may be fixing something that is already fixed and yet add more problems by the way we are going to choose this day or this week based on which other cultural activities take place during that period. We may, again, start accusing each other saying we chose that week because we wanted a certain culture or a certain traditional ceremony or any other activity that is of a cultural orientation to be recognised more than others. We can quickly, again, degenerate into making many accusations.

Madam Speaker, for me, I think the week we have is enough time to celebrate our cultural diversity, and we have been celebrating it. At least, I know that from the tourism point of view; from the cultural point of view; and under the Ministry of Arts and Culture. The week, which ends on 27^th September, is a very busy week in the country. Maybe we just need to heighten awareness on it, enhance it and continue to collaborate.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me the chance to debate this very important Motion. Allow me to thank the mover of this Motion for the initiative and the time that he took to come up with a very important Motion for this nation.

Madam Speaker, I must state that I am disappointed with the manner in which the hon. Minister trivialised this very important Motion.

Mr Nkombo: You ain’t seen nothing yet.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, the mover of the Motion did not ask for holidays. He did not ask for people to waste work hours. What he asked for was a week for celebrations, meaning that some people can celebrate whilst others work. Just like he put it fairly that traditional ceremonies are held while people elsewhere continue working.

Madam Speaker, this is not a new thing to have. Some countries in the world, like Brazil, have the Brazilian Carnival which attracts more than 5 million people. I must state that such kinds of initiatives add value to the tourism sector. This can be a money spinner. This country is looking for ways and means to diversify and come up with ways of making money. For such kind of an initiative, I thought well-meaning Zambians would support it.

Madam Speaker, President Hakainde Hichilema is on record of trying to unify our country. I know some people are trivialising his visits to the grave sites of our late founding fathers. They are saying, “Why is he visiting those graves?” I know that he is trying to promote our cultural well-being. He is also trying to bring close to the people of Zambia the cultures that we might look at as a waste of time.

Madam Speaker, I listened to my hon. Minister debate today. He spoke about the National Day of Prayer, Fasting, Repentance and Reconciliation and it reminded me of something that, indeed, the hon. Minister is differing with what the President is preaching. A day ago, the hon. Minister of Defence was on record reading a speech on behalf of the President, where the President saluted President Fredrick Chiluba and President Edgar Lungu for declaring this day as a day of prayer. Today, listening to the hon. Minister rubbish this day puts my soul to wonder where we are going and what is obtaining. I thought that what the President says is policy, and must be taken very seriously. Surely, if his own hon. Ministers can stand and tell this nation that whatever the President says should not be taken seriously, I remain to wonder because tomorrow we shall be told that even the speech that was read by the hon. Minister of Defence on behalf of the President was written by himself.

Madam Speaker, –

Mr Mbao: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mbao: Madam Speaker, I am referring to Standing Order No. 65 which guides us to not move out of the topic of discussion. The hon. Member is now discussing the National Day of Prayer, Fasting, Repentance and Reconciliation which is not part of the Motion here.

Madam Speaker, please, guide.

Madam Speaker: That issue, hon. Minister, was brought in the debate by the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development. The hon. Member for Chitambo is rebutting.

The hon. Member for Chitambo may proceed.

Hon. PF. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, all I was saying is that other countries have developed their cultures into national tourist attractions. Countries like China have what they call the Chinese Cultural Week. That does not mean that when there is that cultural week, the country is on a standstill and nobody is working. People continue working as others make money for their country. To come up with this initiative will help our tourism industry and boost the way this country makes money rather than us just concentrating on one thing.

If you go to Spain, you will find that it has what is called the Tomato Festival, and this is a very big money spinner. Why should we remain behind?

Madam Speaker, the mover of this Motion is not asking for much. All he is saying is that can we add value to our tourism industry. The New Dawn Government is premised on value addition, and I think adding value in this manner to the tourism sector will give us value for the tourism sector and the much needed money that Zambians out there need. I urge all well-meaning hon. Members of this House who are thinking in the right manner to support this fair and well-meaning Motion.

I thank you, Madam.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I must state that I am disappointed with the manner in which the hon. Minister trivialised this very important Motion.

Mr Nkombo: You ain’t seen nothing yet.

Madam Speaker, –

Mr Mbao: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Madam Speaker, please, guide.

Madam Speaker: That issue, hon. Minister, was brought in the debate by the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development. The hon. Member for Chitambo is rebutting.

The hon. Member for Chitambo may proceed.

Hon. PF. Members: Hear, hear!

If you go to Spain, you will find that it has what is called the Tomato Festival, and this is a very big money spinner. Why should we remain behind?

I thank you, Madam.

The Minister of Tourism (Mr Sikumba): Madam Speaker, I thank you for granting me the opportunity to contribute to debate on the Motion to Introduce the National Heritage and Cultural Week. Let me also take this opportunity to thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Kanchibiya for moving this Motion as it is of great significance to the social and economic development of this great country called Zambia. Zambia has seventy three ethnic groups, each with its own cultural identity. As such, our culture is diverse and it is the unique identity which makes it stand out from the rest.

Madam Speaker, heritage and culture defines who we are. Therefore, it is through such proposed platforms that our heritage and cultural week could be restored and be managed by all of us. It is, therefore, important to have a cultural exchange within ourselves in order to appreciate one another’s culture and to promote our “One Zambia One Nation” motto.

Madam Speaker, while the intentions of moving the Motion are noble and progressive, my ministry is not in support of the Motion for the following compelling reasons:

Madam Speaker, first and foremost, the country has enough gazetted calendar events where the proposed heritage and cultural week could be adequately commemorated. To illustrate this point, I would like to cite some of the events that could be used to enhance the restoration and maintenance of our cultural heritage and in so doing prevent its degradation. Some of the calendar events that we could use to celebrate our heritage and culture included, but not limited to the following:

The Independence Celebration,

Madam Speaker, we have on the national calendar the independence week where a number of activities are lined up prior to the eve and the actual celebrations on Independence Day on 24^th October of each year. Our strong proposal is that apart from undertaking the various charitable works that have been traditionally carried out, a number of days and evenings of this week could be dedicated to celebrating our art, culture and heritage.

Youth Week and Youth Day Celebration.

Madam Speaker, Governments has dedicated the week before the 12^th of March to the commemoration of the contribution of the youth to the Independence struggle. The youth week and the youth celebration present us with another opportunity to celebrate our heritage and culture more so because it involves the youths who are the future leaders of our nation. The celebrations that are done during the period could be reconfigured to enhance the heritage and cultural aspects.

World Tourism Day

Madam Speaker, within the ministry, we co-ordinate the World Tourism Day celebrations which fall on 27^th of September. Prior to this day, the ministry co-ordinates an Arts and Cultural Festival popularly known as Pamodzi Carnival. In Livingstone, there is what they call the Livingstone International Culture Arts Festival (LICAF). This is yet another calendar event that could be enhanced to restore our heritage and culture. In addition to the examples I have cited, there are numerous traditional and cultural ceremonies that take place across the country almost on a daily basis. I can go on to cite examples. The point I am trying to drive at, is to ensure that the country or rather, let the House know that the country already has enough avenues to celebrate our unique cultural heritage.

Madam Speaker, I must make mention that my ministry today is called the Ministry of Tourism and “mausoleums” because we are talking care of all the gravesites that we have across the country.

Madam Speaker, the second reason we are not in support of the introduction of the Heritage and Cultural Week is that it has a huge cost implication on the Government Treasury. Therefore, this would not sit well at a time when the Government’s policy is to rationalise expenditure in order to restore the economy. We are at a time when the national Treasury is quite constrained and introducing additional expenditure points would not be attainable both in the short and medium term.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, I urge the hon. Members of this august House to work together in using the above events I had mentioned earlier and many others that I have not cited for the purpose of celebrating and restoring our rich cultural heritage.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to move this Motion and also to wind up debate on it.

Madam Speaker, I want to state from the word go, that if the House fails to pass such a non controversial and bipartisan Motion, I do not want to imagine what would happen to controversial Bills when they are brought to this House. We cannot look at everything through the lenses of a political party. There comes a time in the life of the nation when we must rise above partisan interests to look at what is good and what is uniting our people. Heritage and culture does unite our people.

Madam Speaker, the response from my good brother the hon. Minister of Tourism, the proposed commemoration will be self financing. We have seen, for example, the Luapula Investment Exposition is self financing. The Government spends zero on that particular event. The private sector in the tourism sector will benefit during this particular period. It is also going to add value to the good ministry. However, you would agree with me that whatever events that we have as a country do very little or nothing to pass on information from one generation to the next.

Madam Speaker, countries that celebrate National Heritage Week such as Ireland and South Africa have independence days. However, they do so because culture and heritage is what we share in common away from the political polarisation and the differences they may have. There comes a point when we must rise above partisan interests to look at what is good for Zambia, what is good for the succeeding generations, what is good for community development and what we are doing to reignite this particular aspect of life which is very important?

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, the rules of this House are very clear about winding up a debate Motion. Is the hon. Member for Kanchibiya in order to open this debate once again when you asked him to wind it up?

I seek your ruling.

Madam Speaker: When an hon. Member is winding up debate on a Motion, he/she has five minutes. So, how he/she uses that five minutes is up to him/her as long as they stick to the Motion.

You may proceed, hon. Member.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, I thank you for your guidance.

Madam Speaker, this particular Motion is very important for our social and cultural cross pollination. It is very important that we internalize these issues beyond strengthening the social fabric of our nation. This Motion will allow the tourism sector to thrive and it will bring incremental value to this industry.

Madam Speaker, before I was rudely interrupted by my good brother, …

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, withdraw the word ‘rudely’.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, I withdraw the word ‘rudely.’

Madam Speaker, in moving this Motion, I appeal to the conscience of hon. Members of this House, both on your right and left to reflect on the Motion and understand that I bring it in peace. It looks at how we can strengthen our social fabric and how we can give an opportunity to this very important sector called the tourism sector. HHow do we bring incremental value to our schools, learners and communities? Further, this is also good for community development wherever this will be happening. I might be overlooking some of these issues because I am from a rural constituency. I understand the value of heritage and culture.

Madam Speaker, I am also motivated that when His Excellency the President visited the gravesites for the late Simon Mwansa Kapwepwe in Chinsali and the late Harry Mwaanga Nkumbula in Namwala, he was emphatic on the need for us to preserve and rewrite our history as a country. This Motion comes in that spirit that can we bring action to what His Excellency the President has been preaching.

Madam Speaker, with those few words, I beg to move.

Question put and negatived.

BUDGET 2022

(Debate resumed)

Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu): Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity given to the people of Bangweulu to make some reflections on the 2022 National Budget presented in this House on 29^th October, 2021.

Madam Speaker, I have read through this Budget several times to understand its uniqueness because I have heard a number of hon. Members and the public saying that this Budget is unique and it is the first of its kind. I have also taken time to read a number of budgets that have been presented in the past by various former hon. Ministers of Finance and I have discovered two things.

The commonality of the several former hon. Finance Ministers is that they acknowledged what their predecessors did. However, the uniqueness about this Budget is the failure and the attempt by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to pay a blind eye to what the previous Government implemented. Further, many hon. Members of Parliament on your right have made a number of assumptions and I will try to deal with some of those as I debate. However, I am quick to mention that the success of any budget does not consist in its pronouncement neither does it depend on political gymnastics, but in its implementation and its output. So, I will wait until next year around this time to make my position whether this is a progressive Budget or not because by that time, the Government would have implemented some of the programmes.

Madam Speaker, I want to make a few comments on the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) as a starting point of my reflections this afternoon on behalf of the people of Bangweulu.

Madam Speaker, there are two issues. A number of hon. Members on your right who have debated are insinuating that we on the left do not want an increment of the CDF. That is not the point we are making. There are two things here. Decentralisation is not just about increasing the amount of money, but putting systems and structures in place so that when resources are moved from the Central Government to the periphery, there are structures and systems through which that money can be spent prudently.

Madam Speaker, secondly, we are talking about equity. When the hon. Minister was presenting the Budget, he said: “In order to have the equitable distribution of the money, we give the same amount.” I will give you an example of my hon. Colleagues’ constituencies; Moomba Bweengwa and Monze Central that constitute one district, and will receive K77 million vis-à-vis a number of bigger constituencies like Kasempa with twenty-four wards. Where is the equity?

Madam Speaker, another issue is about the insinuation that was made in this House by my friend, the hon. Member of Parliament for Senanga who said that the Patriotic Front (PF) disregarded the dismantling of the debt owed to pensioners. I want to demonstrate that when the PF took over Government in 2011, there were more than 5,000 pensioners on a waiting list. Between that time and now, more than 22,000 retirees have been cleared.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima: Where?

Mr Kasandwe: Figures do not lie. Hon. Member, you can read the 2020 Pension Fund Report. 22,000 pensioners have been cleared. As I am speaking today, there are only a thousand pensioners on the waiting list. This means that in the past few years, the former Government did extremely well. It is only the PF Government that has extended the grid to all the districts in the North-Western Province.

Mr Muchima: Question!

Hon. PF Member: Why are you questioning reality?

Mr Kafwaya: Ba Muchima.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, order.

Mr Kasandwe: Madam Speaker –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, order.

Hon. Members, the rules are very clear. As we debate, there should be no interruptions or interjections. Let the hon. Member debate. If you have anything to rebut or say to contradict what the hon. Member is saying, make a note and then when your time to debate comes, bring out the issue.

Let us have order in the House.

May the hon. Member for Bangweulu, continue.

Mr Kasandwe: Madam Speaker, I debate with facts. I do extensive research so that my debate is meaningful and adds value to this House.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, as the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning was trying to detach this budget from the PF, I can assure him that this Budget is an off-shoot of the PF.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasandwe: This Budget is a descendant of the PF. This Budget has an umbilical cord of the PF and anything that this Government is going to implement will be based on a platform that the PF has established economically and politically in terms of infrastructure.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, thank you for this rare opportunity. I have been going through the Budget trying to see what will impress me or if the budget is speaking to me and my people in Nyimba Parliamentary Constituency.

Madam Speaker, on pages 12 and 13 of the Budget Speech, the hon. Minister emphasised on agriculture. We all know that our peasant farmers in rural areas need support from the Government and I wish we could improve on what we are giving our farmers now. However, the hon. Minister has gone ahead in trying to encourage farming estates to invest in a good production of our crops. If you look at the proposal from the hon. Minister that we should increase funding for estates, to me, it is a good idea, but the hon. Minister has not told us how he is going to do it. This is where the problem comes.

Madam Speaker, today, every Government which comes in and goes out of power, leaves debts. We borrow money for consumption. We have a leeway to borrow US$1 billion and reinvest it into farming estates that will pay back the money we are going to borrow for them. I want to let you know that Mpongwe Farms today employees not less than 1,000 workers. At its peak, the number could even reach somewhere around 5,000 to 10,000 workers.

Madam Speaker, if we had to borrow US$1 billion, we would be able to reinvest US$15million in at least sixty districts or so. You may wish to note that Mpongwe Farms was started by the former Vice-President of this Republic, Dr Guy Scot, who was the first manager there. They only invested €11million. Mpongwe Farms will never go down like any mining company. If you go to Mazabuka today, there is an estate called Mazabuka Sugar Company and it is doing wonders. It will never be broke. These are things we should be thinking about as Government. These are the things the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning should be looking at.

Madam Speaker, we can do a pilot project using the Zambia National Service (ZNS) farms by investing in these farms and after five years, we are not going to have hunger here. We will be exporting things which are going to raise enough money to pay our debts.

Madam Speaker, let me quickly touch on Constituency Development Fund (CDF). I am one of the people who was excited with the CDF.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Menyani Zulu: I am very happy that we have increased the CDF to K25.7 million. Madam Speaker, I know some hon. Members of Parliament have spoken about the capacity of councils. In this country there is no council which has no capacity to manage K25 million. If you check the budgets for councils, they are more than K25 million.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Menyani Zulu: So, for us, Madam Speaker, what we need to be talking about now is that in the next Session, in the next Budget, the hon. Minister should come and tell us that he has increased the CDF to about K40 million. We are going to appreciate that.

Madam, I have a very special appeal to the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development. As we are decentralising the system, the ministry should also start decentralising their system. For now, I have to wait for the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development to approve the names of people he does not know for my constituency to start moving. That is not adding value. If other systems failed, let us move to new systems so that we can start moving as a country.

Madam Speaker, I will also tell the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development that, bwana Minister, as you start approving these projects, please, let us not find ourselves in a situation where the districts have come up with projects and then you do not sign them off until we enter the next budget cycle. That will not help us. We will be stagnant. We will not be moving. That is my appeal to the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Menyani Zulu: Madam Speaker, my other appeal is that the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development should sit down with his team of technocrats and with some hon. Members of this Chamber who have been councillors to help him out. I know Hon. Sylvia Masebo is a seasoned former Local Government Minister.

Ms Kasanda: Even me!

Laughter

Mr Menyani Zulu: Madam Speaker, we have people who are seasoned in local governance, and we can come up with a system. This is where the Government is. If you fail to perform at local government level, you will find yourselves on the left hand side of the House. That, I can assure you. You are only going to be where you are today if you perform at local government level. No government in the world has performed well without working at the local level.

Madam Speaker, let me quickly touch on the education sector. It is sad the hon. Minister of Education is no there. Please, give us the opportunity, as local people, to employ local graduates as teachers in our respective constituencies.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Menyani Zulu: We do not need people coming from Lusaka. Madam Speaker, in my constituency, there are areas where people are eaten by lions and killed by buffaloes, but the locals are qualified and yet we do not employ them. We give opportunities to people from Lusaka. That should come to an end. If you have a graduate in a community, why are we not give them the first priority? We need that. I wish the Executive can do that as we start the new recruitment of medical personnel, teachers and others.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Nakaponda (Isoka): Madam Speaker, thank you for according the people of Isoka time to air their views. Firstly, I thank the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for presenting the Budget in the House to the nation.

Madam Speaker, the people of Isoka are hopeful about the increment in the allocation of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and eagerly await the realisation of the pronouncement. They seek to understand from the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning how he got so convinced that K25.7 million is enough to shift the responsibilities from the central administration to the office the Member of Parliament in developing the constituency. For instance, building schools, clinics, hospitals, roads, water reticulation systems, and empowerment among others. How then does the CDF help to cater for the projects that are urgently needed and are a priority to the people of Isoka? They hope that this proposal will be implemented within the framework of the Constituency Development Fund Act, 2018.

Madam Speaker, the skilled people and mostly the youth of Isoka seek clarity and a specified time frame over the employment of the 30,000 teachers and over 11,000 health personnel. Can the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning tell the trained people of Isoka when the Government intends to start rolling out the employment of the said number of people. Need I remind the hon. Minister of a word from the Budget, which is ‘smart’?

Madam Speaker, I also want to put it on record that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government worked so hard on infrastructure development that has given the ruling Government the impetus to even dream of employing teachers as well as health personnel.

Madam Speaker, it is time the Government learnt to appreciate instead of placing blame all the time. For example, our friends are boasting that they will be able to employ more than 30,000 teachers and more 11,000 medical personnel. Yes, they are boasting about it because of the infrastructure such as school, hospitals, and health centres that were built or constructed countrywide by the PF Government.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Nakaponda: Madam Speaker, without the PF Government putting up infrastructure like schools, hospitals and health centres, …

Hon. Member: Stop reading.

Ms Nakaponda:… the United Party for National Development(UPND) would not have found any ground to start from in terms of employing teachers and health workers. Our friends should agree that a party which they demeaned had set the stage for economic recovery and national development while they were just playing blame games. If the schools, hospitals and health centres had not been constructed, –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, the Standing Orders say you should not read unless you have some challenges then we can allow you.

Interjections

Ms Nakaponda: I am quoting.

Madam Speaker: Proceed.

Ms Nakaponda: Madam Speaker, where would our friends on the right employed these people? Is it under the trees?

Hon. PF Members: No!

Ms Nakaponda: The PF Government is the one which trained the 30,000 teachers and 11,000 health personnel. That is why the UPND is even boasting that it is going to employ these people. Without the PF, it would not have employed them. I am very disappointed with our friends on the right side of the House. Please, friends, learn to appreciate. I doubt if our friends are going to be able to fulfil their promises of employing more than 30,000 teachers and 11,000 medical personnel because they are saying the Budget is under pressure. So, the 2022 National Budget is just a hoax. That is why our friends are panicking because they do not know how to implement –

Mr Muchima: Who is panicking?

Ms Nakaponda: They are the ones who are panicking. This is because they do not know how to implement the Budget after exciting Zambians out there.

I submit, Madam Speaker.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order!

We have not even gone for break. The Budget is begging to be debated.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

ADJOURNMENT

The Government Chief Whip and the Acting Leader of Government Business (Mr Mulusa): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1629 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 11^th November, 2021.

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