DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE SECOND SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Thursday, 25th October, 2012

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

ELECTRIFICATION IN MANGANGO PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

199. Mr Taundi (Mangango) asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development:

(a)whether the Government had any plans to electrify the following areas in Mangango Parliamentary Constituency: 

(i)Mayukwayukwa;

(ii)Chief Mutondo’s Palace;

(iii)Mangango;

(iv)Nyango; and

(v)Zambia National Service Camp;

(vi)if so, what the estimated cost of the entire project is; and

(b)when the project is expected to commence.

The Deputy Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Zulu): Mr Speaker,  yes, the Government has plans to electrify Mayukwayukwa, Chief Mutondo’s Palace, Mangango, Nyango and the Zambia National Service Camp in Mangango Constituency.

The cost of the entire project is under the Increased Access to Electricity Services (IAES) Project, the electrification of Chief Mutondo’s Palace, Mangango and Nyango Centre as well as the Zambia National Service Camp is estimated to be about K17 billion. The electrification of Mayukwayukwa, which is to be carried out under the project for connection of Lukulu to the national grid by setting up a 66 KV power line from Kaoma to Lukulu will cost a total of K133.5 billion, as the cost estimate from the feasibility studies carried out by the Rural Electrification Authority (REA).

Mr Speaker, the works for the electrification of Chief Mutondo’s Palace, Mangango and Nyango Centre as well as the Zambia National Service Camp is scheduled to commence in November, 2012, subject to the contractor’s mobilisation to the site. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister has informed this House that Chief Mutondo’s Palace in Mangango will be electrified in November, 2012. Is the programme going to be rolled out to all the chiefs in the Republic of Zambia?

Mr Deputy Speaker: No. I would rather we stick to the question involved.

We will move to the next question.

AUDITOR-GENERAL’S OFFICE STAFF ESTABLISHMENT 

200. Mr V. Mwale (Chipangali) asked the Vice-President:

(a)what the staff establishment of the Office of the Auditor-General was;

(b)how many positions in the establishment were vacant as of August, 2012; and

(c)what the reasons for the vacant positions, if any, were.

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr Kalaba): Mr Speaker, in accordance with the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for 2012 and the Establishment Register for Ministries and Provinces, the approved establishment for the Office of the Auditor-General is 569, that is, for audit and support staff together.

Out of the total of 569 positions, 446 positions were filled by August, 2012. Thus, 123 positions were vacant.

Finally, some of the reasons for the vacant positions include the following:

(i)some vacancies are as a result of attrition due to staff resignations and it often takes long to fill them; and

(ii)some vacancies are as a result of non-secondment or transfer of staff from the mother ministries, that is, support staff such as accountants, typists and registry clerks managed by the Public Service Management Division take some time before replacements are made.

Mr Speaker, I thank you, Sir.

Mr V. Mwale: Mr Speaker, why does it take long for the Public Service Management Division to employ for the Office of the Auditor-General? According to one of the resolutions of the United Nations (UN), the Office of the Auditor-General must have the independence to employ its own staff so that the work being carried out is not interfered with.

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I think I would like to know how that relates to the UN resolution because I have never heard of it. Anyway, … 

Laughter

Dr Scott: … if the hon. Member listened carefully to the answer that was provided on (c) (ii) by the hon. Deputy Minister, he would have heard that he said that some vacancies are as a result of non-secondment or transfer of staff. These are support staff that, I am sure, are not covered by any UN resolution.

Laughter

The Vice-President: I think it is only the professional staff who will be covered by that.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, taking into account the fact that the PF Government emphasises transparency and accountability, does the Government not intend to give autonomy to the Office of the Auditor-General to employ so that it can also emphasise on employing qualified staff?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, obviously, the Auditor-General reports only to Parliament. That is about as autonomous as it can get.

I thank you, Sir.

THE ZAMBIA BUREAU OF STANDARDS

201. Mr Chungu (Luanshya) asked the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry:

(a)how effective the Zambia Bureau of Standards (ZABS) has been in its operations; and

(b)why there is a proliferation of low quality goods on the Zambian market.

The Deputy Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Taima): Mr Speaker, from the outset, I wish to state that our answer is long and, therefore, will take me a while to deliver. 

Mr Speaker, ZABS has tried its best to be effective in its operations, as can be seen from the great achievements that it has scored. So far, ZABS has published and gazetted a total of 1,300 Zambian standards which are implemented through the Conformity Assessment Schemes that have been established as follows:

(i)    Product Certification Scheme with thirty products certified to Zambian standards which is evidenced by the ZABS Quality Mark on products such as drinking water, for example, Manzi and Aqua Savannah, and cement and soft drinks, among others;

(ii)    the implementation of an Import Quality Monitoring Scheme for products that affect health and safety of the public, including protection of the environment. Under this scheme, forty-three mandatory standards … 

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

Hon. Members on my right, it is always important that when an answer is being given, everybody pays attention. We always advise that if we need to consult, we do so quietly. If it becomes imperative, then the right thing to do is to leave the House and come back after your consultations.

Hon. Minister, you may continue.

Mr Taima: Mr Speaker, I was saying that forty-three mandatory standards are being implemented as follows:

(iii)    the implementation of a Domestic Quality Monitoring Scheme where 250 companies have been registered and an average of 100 companies are inspected for compliance with mandatory standards every quarter. This scheme has helped a number of local companies to improve their processes and the quality of their products, thereby, helping them to remain competitive on the market;

(iv)    establishment of a Management System Certification Scheme which is fairly new and, so far, one has been registered. Awareness seminars for the scheme are ongoing;

(v)    ZABS collaborates with other agencies, such as the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) and the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA), to implement regulations and relevant standards in the sectors. Further, ZABS also collaborates with private sector associations, such as the Zambia Honey Council (ZHC), to help their members comply with the set standards in their specific field or areas of interest as this helps to strengthen their capacity to produce competitive products by implementing a quality assurance scheme which they can afford. ZABS is currently working with the Ministry of Education – Curriculum Development Centre in order to include issues relating to standardisation in the school education curriculum.

(vi)    ZABS, with assistance from our co-operating partners, has established very good and state-of-the-art laboratories that are used to support the conformity assessment schemes. The House may wish to know that these laboratories are also open to the private sector and their use is actually increasing. This is an indication that more private sector businesses are verifying compliance of their products to standards. For example, in the second quarter of 2012, the laboratory tested a total of 681 samples of which, 348, which is 51 per cent, were from the Inspections Department of ZABS and 333, which is 49 per cent, were from external clients which are, generally, the private sector. The laboratories established include the following:

(a)    a General Chemistry Laboratory which has key analytical equipment

(b)    Microbiology

(c)    Inorganic Analysis Laboratory

(d)    Paint Laboratory Testing Laboratory

(e)    Packaging Materials/Textiles Laboratory

(f)    Petroleum Testing Laboratory

(g)    Condom Testing Laboratory

(vii)    the testing facilities are being used by other regulatory authorities, such as the ERB for fuel testing, the Consumer and Competition Protection Commission (CCPC) for addressing consumer complaints, the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) for testing grain bags for compliance with standards and grain analysis, the Ministry of Health for condom testing, the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA) for effluent analysis and pesticide residues in the soils. ZABS has a Metrology laboratory with an increased scope of operations from three laboratories about five years ago to seven laboratories currently.

Mr Speaker, as regards the second part of the question, I wish to inform the House that there are various factors that have led to the proliferation of low quality goods on the Zambian market. Some of the reasons to the said question are as follows:

(i)    lack of the presence of ZABS at all entry points and at the provincial centres due to inadequate resources on the part of the ministry;

(ii)    inadequate awareness on the mandate of ZABS whereby it is generally misunderstood by the general populace that ZABS is responsible for everything when, in fact, other regulatory authorities are responsible for certain specific sectors. For example, the Road Development Agency (RDA) is responsible for the quality of roads, the ERB which is responsible for the energy sector, the RTSA is responsible for road safety, the National Council for Construction (NCC) is responsible for the construction industry and the Ministry of Health and local authority are responsible for public health. In this regard, it is my appeal that whilst ZABS is responsible for publishing the Zambian standards, implementation is done by the sector regulators, where they exist.

(iii)    non-use of standards for public procurement;

(iv)    consumers not demanding products that comply with standards. This means that the tendency has been that most people prefer to buy cheap products with poor quality. People always look at the price and not the quality of the product in most cases;

(v)    the manufacturers do not feel obligated to comply with the standards because they are still able to sell their products after all;

(vi)    inadequate resources to conduct market surveillances; and

(vii)    the lack of test facilities for engineering products, including electrical and construction products and materials.

I wish to inform the House that the ministry is doing all it can to address the challenges of low quality goods on the Zambian market. In this regard, the ministry is undertaking the following activities or initiatives:

(a)    at least, three Memoranda of Understanding have been signed with the regulatory authorities, including the private sector associations to help in the co-ordination and enhancement of standards. These include:

(i)    regulatory authorities which include the ERB, and the Zambia Information Communication Technology Authority (ZICTA)

(ii)    private sector associations, including the Zambia Association of Manufacturers (ZAM) and ZHC. Other partners are yet to be engaged.

(b)    ZABS, in collaboration with ZICTA, will be engaged in monitoring the Information, Communication and Technology (ICT) products and materials such as phones, radios and other types of communication equipment;

Hon. Opposition Member: Fyafula!

Mr Taima: Emukwai.

Laughter 

Mr Taima: Mr Speaker, 

(c)    plans are underway to open up new provincial offices beginning with Ndola; and

(d)    awareness programmes, including market surveillances are on-going activities and are done in an effort to educate the consumers and manufacturers on the importance of standards.

Mr Speaker, from what I hear in the House, our answer is so satisfactory that there will be no follow-up questions. Therefore, I would like to end by saying that I have no doubt that ZABS is very efficient in its operations and is, indeed, endeavoring to put in place measures to ensure that there is no proliferation of low quality goods on the Zambian market.    

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!    

Mr Chungu: Mr Speaker, do we have personnel from ZABS at all our entry points? How are there so many low quality goods on the market?

Mr Taima: Mr Speaker, we mentioned in our answer that, currently, we have challenges in terms of staffing and, as such, do not have the presence of ZABS in all border areas. However, that is our desire and we are making every effort to ensure that we have as much representation of ZABS as possible at all border entry points.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kazonga (Vubwi): Mr Speaker, in spite of the long answer, there is one area that I would like the hon. Minister to clarify.

Mr Speaker, in Zambia, we have electrical appliances that use the round plugs, and yet our standards are the pin type. What is this Government doing to ensure that our Zambian standards are met because changing from round to pin type plugs is costly.

Mr Taima: Mr Speaker, in our long answer, I mentioned that in our continued efforts, through ZABS, to expand the areas that we will be touching in ensuring that producers and traders of various goods and products comply with our standards, we are going to, very soon, begin to engage ZICTA so that together we begin to monitor the ICT products.  I would like to believe that in this undertaking, we will cover the concern of the hon. Member.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, some of the sub-standard goods that find themselves on the market have an impact on our people’s health. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what collaborative mechanism there is between his ministry and the Ministry of Health to ensure that our people’s health is safeguarded.

Mr Taima: Mr Speaker, I mentioned, in my answer, that there is a general misconception that ZABS is supposed to be the developer of standards, and the sole implementer or monitor, which should ensure that there is compliance. On the contrary, we have other players in this chain. For instance, there is the Pharmaceutical Regulatory Authority which deals with the area that the hon. Member is concerned about. This authority ensures that all the foods and drugs comply with the set standards.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, this is a topical subject, indeed, and it keeps coming back. Is there any plan to invite officers from ZABS to conduct a workshop here so that we can interact with them?

Mr Taima: Mr Speaker, we do not have that plan now. However, if I consult and see that a workshop is necessary, I could call them. I believe that I have given much information, and the hon. Member of Parliament is free to go to the ZABS offices to get more information about what the organisation is concerned with.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, some few weeks ago, it was reported in some media that ZABS had confiscated second-hand underwear. However, when you go to Soweto and other places such as Lundazi, these things are still being sold. May I know what measures ZABS is taking to stop this.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I am not sure about Lundazi …

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

However, the hon. Minister should take that question.

Mr Taima: Mr Speaker, I am not aware of the situation the hon. Member of Parliament has inquired about. However, I will find out more and get back to him.

I thank you, Sir.

DIVISION OF SHANG’OMBO DISTRICT.

202. Mr Njeulu (Sinjembela) asked the Vice-President whether the Government had any plans to divide Shang’ombo District into two and, if so, when.

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Government has no immediate plan to divide Shang’ombo District into two. However, the House may wish to know that the powers to divide a district are vested in the President of the Republic in accordance with the provisions of the Provincial and District Boundaries Act Cap 286 of the Laws of Zambia.

I thank you, Sir.
TEACHERS ON STUDY LEAVE

203. Mr Chisala (Chilubi): asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a)    whether there were any teachers that proceeded on paid study leave from January, 2010, to January, 2012; and

(b)    if so, what the range of duration of the study leave was for teachers from the following provinces:

    (i)    Northern;
    (ii)    Copperbelt;
(iii)Lusaka;
(iv)Luapula;
(v)Eastern; and 
(vi)Central.

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, there were 180 teachers that proceeded on paid study leave from January, 2010 to January, 2012.

Mr Speaker, the range of duration of study leave is from one month to five years.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I do not know whether the period of one month to five years applies for all those provinces listed because I think the question is related to these provinces. Does your answer relate to all these provinces, hon. Minister?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, this is a generic answer. The duration of study leave is from one month to five years. I do not know whether I have made myself clear.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, despite the fact that my question has not been answered to my expectation, I have a follow-up question to make. Governments come and go. Of the three Governments that have governed the country, so far, except the Patriotic Front (PF), none of them gave assistance to serving teachers through the Bursaries Committee. Is the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education considering giving serving teachers bursaries so that they can be cushioned financially, especially that their conditions of service in the past twenty years have been so poor?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, that is a very good question from Hon. Chisala. That situation is regrettable. We are aware that our teachers have been going on paid study leave without any assistance. One of our commitments is to review the operations of the Bursaries Committee so that it is converted into a Loans Scheme Authority. Since this authority is still being discussed, the issue that Hon Chisala has raised is going to be taken into account in order to see how best we can help the teachers who are supposed to proceed on this paid study leave.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr L. Zimba (Kapiri-Mposhi): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that there are some teachers in urban areas who are being paid Rural Hardship Allowance at the expense of teachers in rural areas?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, although that supplementary question is not connected to the question that I am answering, I will say that the best thing that the hon. Member for Kapiri Mposhi can do is to come and see us at the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, and then we will be able to make a follow up on the issue.

I thank you, Sir. 

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, for the sake of clarity, I am still concerned with part (b) of this question. The hon. Member of Parliament for Chilubi wanted to find out the range of duration for the study leave that was approved in different provinces. Can the hon. Minister categorically state that that period from one month to five years applies to each one of the provinces listed.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, I am not going to run away from the answer that I gave. The period of one month to five years is applicable to all these provinces that have been indicated in the question.

I thank you, Sir.

MULOBEZI EDUCATION FACILITIES

206. Mr Mufalali (Senanga) (on behalf of Mr Sililo (Mulobezi)) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education when the Government would construct additional classroom blocks and teachers’ houses at the following basic schools in Mulobezi:

(a)    Nawinda;
(b)    Mulauli;
(c)    Machile;
(d)    Salumbwe;
(e)    Sejamba
(f)    Kamenyani;
(g)    Simisisi;
(h)    Tugonte;
(i)    Sibala;
(j)    Mbulumina;
(k)    Sibwaulu;
(l)    Kazuzi; and 
(m)    Namena.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, in the 2012 Infrastructure Development Plan, we made a provision for the construction of additional classrooms at Kamenyani and Namena. The other schools will benefit only when the funds are available.

I thank you, Sir.

MINERAL EXPLORATION IN MULOBEZI

206. Mr Mufalali (on behalf of Mr Sililo) asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development:

(a)when the exploration for minerals last took place at Nawinda in Mulobezi
District;

(b)what the results of the exploration were; and

(c)if the results were positive, when mining would commence.

The Deputy Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Musukwa): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that there have been no exploration activities for minerals in Nawinda in Mulobezi District.

Sir, there are no mineral exploration results since no exploration has taken place in Nawinda, and no exploration results for mining operations to commence were found.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr M. B. Mwale (Malambo): Mr Speaker, when the hon. Minister says that there were no mineral explorations, does that include geological mapping, which is basic?

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, I am sure that I have made a distinction from the exploration activities that do not cater for the geological mapping which is being undertaken by the ministry. Basically, this exploration work is carried out by third parties whereas geological mapping is undertaken by the ministry. The ministry will continue to do that in Nawinda and several other places across the Republic of Zambia.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, now that there were no exploration activities which took place at Nawinda, are there any intentions by the ministry to undertake such activities at the said place?

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, in fact, the question by the hon. Member of Parliament for Malambo was asked in good taste because it was, actually, providing the guidance. 

Sir, as a Government, we are involved in processes of geological mapping while the exploration works are undertaken by mining houses. 

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, in response to a question that was asked some time back on mineral deposits in various provinces, the answer was that there were no diamonds in the Western Province. However, in response to a subsequent question, the hon. Minister contradicted himself. Nevertheless, why did the hon. Minister inform us that there were no diamond deposits in the Western Province if no explorations had been carried out?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Is that in relation to this question or the question asked some time back?

Laughter

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, it is in relation to this question. I was just pointing out the contradiction.

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, I know that we are discussing other issues, but I would like to clarify the confusion created by the hon. Member herself. The Government, in the last submission, indicated that there were no diamond deposits in the Western Province, but that there were some traces. These are two different issues, and I think that is the position. The presence of diamonds and traces, are two different issues.

So, as a Government, we are aware that the province is geologically rich and throughout the entire Republic, there are several minerals. However, these minerals can only become a matter of economic essence once exploration takes place and information is given out to the public. Therefore, in terms of geology and the minerals, there are several minerals, but we can only talk of minerals that we have explored. It is after the exploration programme that we begin the mining process. Consequently, these are different stages. At every different stage, we report the kind of progress that we make. 

Therefore, Sir, in this case, we are talking about traces and explorations. Those are two different issues.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I hope we are not opening a Pandora’s Box through that answer.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, I would like to know the basis upon which the information of traces is being given to us if, indeed, there were no explorations done in those areas. How does the hon. Minister know that there are traces?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I will not allow that. Otherwise, we are going outside the main question. I allowed it and she had the chance.

SPEED HUMP CONSTRUCTION 

208. Mr Chisala asked the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing when the Government would construct speed humps at Chifubu Stream in Ndola.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Tembo): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that construction of speed humps along the roads that are within the urban areas is under the full jurisdiction of the respective local authorities. 

Sir, Ndola City Council, in this regard, should have already put up speed humps after realising the safety concerns at Chifubu Stream. However, an instruction has been sent to Ndola City Council to assess the situation at the Chifubu Stream, and put up appropriate speed calming structures whilst also considering the option of putting up speed humps.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, we have been informed that a directive has been given to Ndola City Council with a view to having it construct speed humps at that particular point. May I know whether the ministry has received any response from Ndola City Council regarding the construction of speed humps.

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mrs Kabanshi): Mr Speaker, we have received no response from Ndola City Council. However, I would like to advise the hon. Member for Chilubi to follow it up with the area Member of Parliament so that he gives him information from the council.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, as far as I know, soon after Chifubu Secondary School, there is a speed hump and immediately after the stream, itself, there is another speed hump. Therefore, is the answer given by the hon. Minister really correct or would the ministry like a hump to be put up right at the stream?

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Speaker, that is why we are saying that we have instructed the people from Ndola City Council to go to the site and assess the situation. That is when they will decide what to do.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

CONSTRUCTION OF SCHOOLS IN KWACHA CONSTITUENCY

209. Mr B. Mutale (Kwacha) asked the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a)whether the Government had any plans to build schools in Chantente Ward in Kwacha Parliamentary Constituency and, if so, when the plans would be implemented; and

(b)when the high schools would be constructed in the following wards:

(i)Riverside;

(ii)Lubwa;

(iii)Ipusukilo;

(iv)Bulangililo; and 

(v)Kwacha.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, at the moment, the Government is currently building a 1 x 2 classroom block at Kwacha Primary School …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Please, consult quietly.

Continue, please.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the Government is currently building a 1 x 2 classroom block at Kwacha Primary School. 

Sir, the Government has made a provision for the construction of a high school in Riverside Ward in the 2012 Infrastructure Development Plan (IDP). 

Mr Speaker, the construction of secondary schools, such as Lubwa, Ipusukilo, Bulangililo and Kwacha, will be considered after we prioritise secondary school construction in the ministry.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr B. Mutale: Mr Speaker, Chantente is a peri-urban area which has no schools. Will the hon. Minister consider constructing a school there because children walk long distances to get to schools. 

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, we will make an assessment and see what the best solution may be. I will get back to the hon. Member of Parliament after I consult the Provincial Educational Officer (PEO) for the Copperbelt.

I thank you, Sir.

OFFICE BLOCK FOR THE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT IN SHANG’OMBO DISTRICT

210.    Mr Njeulu asked His Honour the Vice-President when an office block for the Office of the President, Special Division, would be constructed in Shang’ombo District.

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, there is an on-going programme of constructing office blocks and the construction of the Shang’ombo District office block is earmarked for inclusion in the 2013 Budget estimates. 

I thank you, Sir.

MOTOR VEHICLE AT SICHILI POLICE STATION 

211.    Mr Mufalali (on behalf of Mr Sililo) asked the hon. Minister of Home Affairs:

(a)    when Sichili Police Station would be provided with a motor vehicle; and 

(b)    what the number of officers at the station was, as of June, 2012.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo): Mr Speaker, Sichili Police Post will only be provided with a motor vehicle when funds are provided for in the Budget for this activity. Currently, Sesheke Police Station, under which Sichili Community Police Post falls, provides a vehicle for patrols on a regular basis.

Sir, there were two police officers at Sichili Community Police Post by June, 2012, against the approved establishment of five police officers. The major challenge …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on my left!

Mr Kampyongo: The major challenge is lack of accommodation at the post. It should, however, be noted that the Government intends to address the problem of lack of accommodation for police officers in its Implementation Development Plan (IDP) for the Ministry of Home Affairs.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, where have the vehicles that were earmarked to be given to all districts gone because we were told by the then hon. Deputy Minister, Mr Mwaliteta, that there were enough Toyota Land Cruisers to cover all districts? Where have all those vehicles gone if Mulobezi cannot get one of them?

Mr Deputy Speaker: The answer should be in relation to Sichili.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, there was an indication from our colleague that vehicles were procured, but Sichili is a police post. Therefore, even though the vehicle may have been sent to the district of Sesheke, it is possible that Sichili was not provided for.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, Sichili Police Post falls under Sesheke, and there is only one vehicle in Sesheke, which is not sufficient to cover the whole district. How possible is it that Sichili, which is very far from Sesheke, can be covered by that one vehicle?

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I indicated that the vehicle goes to carry out patrols from time to time. However, we acknowledge the fact that there is a need for us to get vehicles for all our police stations. Further, when funds are made available for next year’s Budget, we shall see how far we can go in that area. 

I thank you, Sir.  

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, I thought that Mulobezi was now a district. If the hon. Minster says vehicles were provided for all the districts and Sichili falls under Mulobezi District, where is the vehicle meant for Mulobezi?

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member clearly said that Mulobezi is a new district and we are aware of that, and are planning for it as such.

I thank you, Sir.

WHEAT PRODUCED BETWEEN JANUARY, 2010 AND DECEMBER, 2011.

212.Mr Chisala asked the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock: 

(a)    how many tonnes of wheat the country had produced between January, 2010, and December, 2011, year by year;

(b)    which provinces had the highest potential to produce wheat in Zambia; and 

(c)    of the provinces at (b), which ones were the major contributors to the production of wheat.
 
The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr N. Banda): M Speaker, the following table shows the amounts of wheat that the country produced between January, 2010, and December, 2011:

Year    Production (Metric Tonnes)

2010        171, 274

2011    237, 332

2012    253, 522 

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, the question is in relation to, 2010 and 2011 but you are going into 2012. Maybe, that is a bonus. However, restrict yourself to the question.

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, I had additional information on this question, but I wish to withdraw the 2012 figures. 

Sir, the production of wheat is suited for most provinces of Zambia, especially Central, the Copperbelt, Southern and Northern provinces. 

Sir, the Copperbelt, Central, Lusaka and Southern provinces are the major contributors to the production of wheat, with the Central Province contributing the highest amount.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala Mr Speaker, Zambia is no longer interested in importing wheat. This means that we need as many wheat-growing farmers as possible. How does the hon. Minister intend to help us increase the number of wheat-growing farmers?

The Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Chenda): Mr Speaker, the monthly consumption of wheat in the country is about 20,000 metric tonnes and what we produce, currently, is more than sufficient. In this regard, there is no need for us to consider ever importing wheat. We should be proud of the fact that we are self-sufficient. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, what happened to the rain-fed wheat programme that was started by the Canadian International Development Agency (CIDA)?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, I do not have the details of what happened to the programme, but I know that it is not economical to grow wheat during the rainy season. All the wheat that we produce is grown during winter.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simfukwe (Mbala): Mr Speaker, what proportion of wheat, in tonnage, is produced by small-scale farmers?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, all the wheat in this country is produced by commercial farmers because the investment that is required is massive. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that Zambia consumes about 20,000 metric tonnes of wheat, and that the current production levels are adequate to satisfy the national demand. Does he realise that the remotest part of Zambia, which is Kakinga in Kalabo, does not receive any wheat? How adequate are 20,000 metric tonnes?

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, it is our wish that, in time, even the people of Kakinga in Kalabo will be able to access wheat because we have sufficient quantities. In fact, we export some of it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe; Mr Speaker, since the hon. Minister has said that the production of wheat is done exclusively by commercial farmers because of the huge investments needed, how much research is the Government carrying out to find some means by which small-scale farmers could also participate because, at some point, these commercial farmers may stop growing wheat?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, farming is a commercial venture that is driven by the interests of those who want to make money. Therefore, there are no restrictions that the Government has imposed on the small-scale farmers. Those who have the muscle and money, and wish to venture into wheat growing are most welcome. 

Sir, the Government will continue to carry out research at its institutes. Currently, there are two varieties of wheat being researched. These are predominantly supposed to be used by small-scale farmers so that they can produce wheat for domestic and not commercial use.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the Government has no intentions to import wheat. Does he have any plans to reduce the cost of bread by flooding the market with wheat, which can be imported from other countries?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, we are very proud that we are able to grow our own wheat sufficiently. Therefore, we would like to give support to our farmers and generate employment in our country. For those reasons, we will be very reluctant to ever consider importing wheat.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisanga (Mkushi South): Mr Speaker, what incentives are given to wheat growers to encourage farmers in Zambia to start exporting wheat?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, that is a new question. I would provide the details if it were tabled.

I thank you, Sir.

NUMBER OF WHEAT FARMERS IN ZAMBIA

213. Mr Chisala asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock what the number of wheat farmers in the country was, as of June, 2012.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Kazabu): Mr Speaker, in June, 2012, there were 184 wheat farmers in Zambia. These were all large-scale farmers.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, are there no small-scale farmers who need assistance from the Government to start growing wheat? 

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, I am sure that there must be some small-scale farmers who may be interested in venturing into wheat growing. Like I said in my previous answer, due to the massive investment that is required, most of them are not able to do so.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, has the Government undertaken any research to determine why there are no small-scale farmers growing wheat in the country?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, we have not carried out a study, but it is common knowledge.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, of the 184 wheat farmers, how many are Zambian nationals?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, I do not have those details with me. I know that there are quite a few prominent Zambians who are involved in commercial growing of wheat.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister keeps saying that there is big investment required in wheat farming. What kind of investment is he referring to?

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

It is a collective responsibility, but only one person has the responsibility to answer.

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, I am sure that the hon. Member has seen some wheat fields in his previous responsibilities. You need to have massive irrigation infrastructure because all the wheat is grown under irrigation. Therefore, you will need centre pivots, which are very expensive. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, of the 184 wheat farmers, how many are in the Northern Province, and what is their total output?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, most of the wheat is grown along the line of rail. I know that the Tanzania/Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA) passes through the Northern Province, but I do not know of anyone who is growing wheat in the Northern Province. We have said that the land is suitable for growing wheat. Obviously, with the expansion of electricity provision in the province and the abundant water, people may venture into this business.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Speaker, would the hon. Minister indicate to the House, whether the wheat that is produced in Zambia, compares well in the region in terms of price.

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, indeed, the price of wheat is favourable and competitive in the region.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mulomba (Magoye): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister, in his earlier response, said there are two varieties of wheat for small-scale farmers, but he also indicated that there are no small-scale farmers involved in wheat production. Can he clarify the two statements?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, I said that, we are carrying out research on two varieties of wheat which could be used by small-scale farmers for domestic production, so that they are able to produce wheat for their own consumption, and the research is ongoing.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, if the price of wheat is, indeed, competitive, can I, then, find out from the hon. Minister, the reason the Government does not allow the importation of wheat into Zambia.

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, I answered that question and I stated that we would like to encourage the growing and production of wheat by the Zambian farmers so that we can create employment in our country, and be self-sufficient.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr L. Zimba: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that one can only grow wheat with the use of the centre pivots. Is it true that one cannot grow wheat by using sprinklers or other methods?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, I said that wheat is grown under irrigation and the most economic way of irrigating is through the use of centre pivots, which are very expensive equipment.

I thank you, Sir.

________
 
MOTIONS

BUDGET 2013

(Debate resumed)

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, in beginning my debate on the Motion that was moved by the hon. Minister of Finance, I would like to start by stating that, over time, the Budget has just become figures.

Mr Speaker, in the past three years, we have seen the rate of the Budget growing. In 2011, the Budget was about K20.5 trillion, this year, it was K27 trillion and next year it is at K32 trillion plus. These are very impressive increments, but let me say that there are no corresponding service deliveries or improvements on the ground.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, therefore, before we look at next year’s Budget, it is very important that we analyse the previous budgets. We might just bring in budgets, when their implementation is not there, and I have examples to verify this. 

Mr Speaker, the Government must first account for the performance of a particular Budget, even mid-year through, before it can bring in another Budget.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Otherwise, the presentation of the National Budget will just become a ceremonial occasion of approving big amounts. Let me state that, in our constituencies, there is little to show in terms of improvements in the living standards of the people, as compared to the increase in the size of the Budget. I feel, there is something wrong somewhere.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Therefore, let me call upon this Government to quickly bring the Planning and Budget Bill to this Parliament as this will strengthen the implementation of the Budget. This will also basically, improve the Budget Cycle. We need to be very clear on the involvement of the people from the formulation, implementation and, indeed, the role of the hon. Members of Parliament in the Budget oversight function. We cannot only come here and approve the Budget while the Government fails to account for the performance of the Budget that was passed.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Sir, the Budget is a step towards a particular destination. As I have said in my last debate, we are moving towards the Vision 2030, and this has been acknowledged by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government. I am also very pleased to note that the President acknowledged the Vision 2030. We must have a vision towards which we drive because, without a vision, we may perish. Later in my debate, I will give some facts to show that this Budget is not leading up to the Vision 2030.

Mr Speaker, the current scenario is that the implementation of the Government’s projects is about 65 per cent or below. We are performing poorly in terms of implementation. That is the reason people are wondering why we have these impressive macro-indicators, and yet there is still poverty. It is because of the disconnection that exists in the implementation. The Budget that has been brought to this House is reasonable, as it aims to bring an improvement in the living conditions of our people. The only problem is that there has been no implementation. The service delivery in this country has reached rock bottom.

Sir, there is inertia, laxity, incompetence, lack of empathy and professionalism in the Civil Service, and the service delivery of this Budget. On page 3 of this Budget, the hon. Minister acknowledges that the total domestically financed expenditure was 6 per cent lower than programmed due to a low absorption capacity mainly in the road sector. I feel this is not only in the road sector. There is poor workmanship and uncompleted projects in our constituencies. The country is not developing and yet, each year, we approve the Budget. Let me ask the hon. Minister, to have a second look at the implementation capacity of the Government because I feel there is something wrong. For me, it is not a question of how big the Budget is, but of the implementation of the small allocation that is approved by this House.

Mr Speaker, with all these impressive macro-economic indicators, in the 2010 Human Development Index Report, Zambia was ranked 150 out of 169 countries. This country’s poverty levels are over 70 per cent, and the life expectancy is over forty years. In the Living Conditions Monitoring Survey Report of 2006 to 2010, it indicates that the school attendance of our children, ranging from seven to thirteen years is about 80 per cent, while from fourteen to eighteen years, it is about 77 per cent. The question is where are the other children? How can we create jobs for people who never went to school? This cannot work.

Mr Speaker, in the envisaged Planning and Budget Act, the Government must give mid-year reports on the performance of the Budget. All ministries must give their reports. We must not leave the hon. Minister of Finance alone to explain the performance of the Budget. Each ministry, including the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, must account for the Budget. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, I would now like to address specific issues. 

Mr Speaker, on macro-economic objectives, the Government envisaged achieving a real gross domestic product (GDP) growth of 7 per cent. I would like to tell him that this is below the Vision 2030 target. Part of page 6 of the Vision 2030 reads:

“The preferred scenario for achieving the Vision 2030 objectives assumes 6 per cent real GDP growth over the five years, 2006 to 2010, with higher rates in each of the four succeeding five-year plans; 8 per cent, between 2011 and 2015.”

Mr Speaker, we should have been talking about 8 per cent or above of the GDP growth rate which has an impact on the third objective. Domestic revenue can only be boosted by a higher GDP. To provide more for your people, you need to grow the economy. We cannot share nothing. We must share something which must continue growing. Your growth target is below the agreed aspiration of the Zambian people. You are performing below par. 

Mr Speaker, I note that, for the first time, on macro-economic objectives, the hon. Minister of Finance has indicated the number of jobs that the Government intends to create. This is something to note. For many years, many Governments have been shy to indicate how many jobs they will create. This Government, at least, has indicated its target. What is missing, however, is how these jobs will be created. You must create, at least, 200,000 decent jobs. The current statistics indicate that out of the 5 million employable Zambians, only about half a million are in employment. If this Government creates 200,000 decent jobs, the number of those employed will rise to 700,000. You can see that this is just a drop in the ocean. This target is not ambitious enough to deal with the backlog of unemployment. 

Mr Speaker, in order to deal with poverty and the many other social issues, one of the most powerful strategies is to create employment or employ what the poor people have. Employment is, therefore, the nexus between these impressive macro-economic objectives and the reduction of poverty and improvement of living conditions of the people. If we want to improve the living conditions of our people, we must create employment. 

Mr Speaker, I would like to delve into the suggestions and policies of this Government in employment creation. The State must play a developmental role. For example, we want to know how our people can be included in the Ministry of Tourism and Art, a ministry that can actually help to reduce poverty in this country. This is more so because “inclusive development” is part of the theme for the 2013 Budget. I would like to know how our people are involved in the hunting blocks in game management areas (GMAs). 

In other countries, the GMAs are community conservancies. Communities and investors run them together and share income. The people who run these hunting blocks, as stated by the hon. Minister of Tourism and Art, are making a big profit out of our natural resources with very little to show for it in the communities that live near the national parks. We must include our people in the ownership of these schemes so that they begin to share in the proceeds made from the resources. 

Sir, to deal with unemployment and poverty, our people must be included. We must engage in an inclusive development strategy. We are not impressed with the coming in of shopping chains which sell goods that are not produced locally. There is no Shoprite in Monze. However, if Spar or Shoprite was taken there, being the only chain stores, we will accept. It must be on a framework which the Government designs. Our people grow enough good, fresh cabbages and tomatoes. There must be clear guidelines that the vegetables must come from within Monze. There is no need to have nice shopping malls that have play areas for children and that very few people buy from while the majority cannot. The majority of the people stand around at bus stops looking on and saying, “Look at them. They are shopping.” One day, they will rise up and stop you from shopping. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: We are growing a very angry population that feels left out. One day, they will disembark from minibuses and follow you because you are eating alone. 

Laughter 

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, these investments must be linked with the people. For instance, the out-grower scheme of Nakambala Sugar under Illovo has transformed Kaleya and Magoye. The people are growing and joining in the economic mainstream. We do not want economic enclaves. In many towns, people are celebrating Spar and Shoprite, and yet there is very little linkage with the people on the ground. You want to bring Shoprite to Monze where very few people will shop from and the rest lose a market? 

The people in the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry must be very strategic and link these investments with our people. This is called inclusive development. There is a total economic enclave in Lumwana. This is a mine worth US$7 billion and located 100 metres from the community, but there is nothing to show for it. Where are the linkages? Where is inclusive development? These investments must be linked in the local economy. If you do not do this, our people will continue to wallow in poverty while you keep on claiming that the economy is growing. 

Mr Speaker, as I conclude my debate, I would like to talk about the 2013 Budget holistically. This K32.2 trillion Budget that has been brought to the House for approval is heavily dependent on borrowing. 

Hon. Government Member interjected.

Mr Hamududu: Yes, and I will show it here.  

Mr Speaker, the domestic debt stock stands at K13.7 trillion, which is equivalent to US$2.5 billion. 

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Can the hon. Member on my left, and at the back, please, consult quietly. That consultation is too loud. 

The hon. Member may continue. 

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, domestic debt stands at US$2.5 billion while the external one is US$2.47 billion. Our total debt stock stands at over US$5 billion. This is an enclaved economy whose major export, at 75 per cent, is copper, whose price we do not control. If the copper prices plummet, this Government will struggle to maintain the K32.2 trillion Budget. Very soon, we can go into the path of borrowing to maintain the threshold of K32.2 trillion. If something goes wrong with the copper prices, we will end up borrowing. We did not need to borrow. I am against the floating of the sovereign bond at a time such as this one. 

Zambia is now in what I call the years of plenty. The conditions are favourable for us to create a sovereign wealth fund for the bad years to come because they are definitely coming. This time, we are borrowing US$750 million Euros and people, including professionals, are dancing. They only condemn you when you lose power. Economists will praise you when all is well, then, condemn you when you lose power. This is how they are. We must condemn this borrowing and its outlay. 

Mr Speaker, this money is borrowed and there is nothing we can do about it because it is already here. The Ministry of Finance should have cared to come to this House to ask for a debate and seek approval because we have committed ourselves to paying back this money without our consent. 

I would like to encourage the hon. Minister of Finance that before this money is spent, we must seriously debate how it will be invested so that we expend it in areas where there will be definite use. He cannot just say we will expend it on railways. Zambia Railways Limited needs a proper audit before we pump in money. 

Sir, most of the copper mining companies are exporting their minerals through the port at Walvis Bay, hence making the railways irrelevant. This is because the distance from Livingstone to Grootfontein where you meet the railways is about 1,400 km. In addition, according to what my colleague told me, these mining companies have gone into long-term contracts with trucking companies. This means that a few mining companies will offload their cargo from the road to the railway because you cannot change the port. For example, if they are sending their minerals to the United States of America and Europe, Walvis Bay is the shortest and safest route as there is no crime. We must conduct a proper study before we pump money into Zambia Railways Limited.

Mr Speaker, my suggestion is that, perhaps, what you should have done was to ask for better terms on the concession. If the current investors refuse those terms, then, look for another partner. If money is going to be put there, knowing how the company has been struggling, it will be put in a bottomless pit. We support the revival of Zambia Railways Limited, but the way it will be done matters. Allocating money to this company might not be the best solution. First of all, we want a full audit of that company. Otherwise, money will be allocated there and it will call for more. Once more money has been invested, there will be no end to it because large sums of money will already have been spent.

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: This thing will be like what His Honour the Vice-President referred to as a lilomba. He said it in this House. It will be asking for more.

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: This Zambia Railways Limitedwill be a lilomba.

Laughter

Mr Miyanda: Kwamba ci Tonga we idoma!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, finally, I wish to mention that there is a lot of abuse on this money we are approving today, and the worst culprits are the provinces. For example, in the Southern Province, the money that was sent for the Rural Roads Unit (RRU), which is a Poverty Reduction Programme (PRP) Fund, went to build a wall fence for the permanent secretary and nothing trickled down to the people on the ground.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: It is not an issue of there being something wrong in the economy, but of the conveyer belt and service delivery.

Mr Livune: PF!

Mr Hamududu: Sir, the idea of compromising the Civil Service by bringing in party cadres will give us a big problem. Recently, I met an hon. Minister, who is a friend of mine whose name I will not reveal. He said that they were just blaming the MMD Government, and yet there is a problem

Laughter{mospagebreak}

Hon. Opposition Members: Ehe!

Mr Hamududu: Do not continue compromising the Civil Service by bringing unqualified and inexperienced civil servants. One ministry, through the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA), almost lost its grant because it could not put things together. This is because they have no empathy. For this reason, the Civil Service must be re-built. Otherwise, year in and year out, we will be coming here to discuss, but nothing will be happening on the ground. People will ask why services are not trickling down to the people on the ground but, how can they trickle down when the conveyor belt is broken?

Mr Speaker, when we, in the UPND, come to power, we shall run a professional Civil Service.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: We shall ensure that the GDP growth rate is above 10 per cent.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: We, in the UPND, when we come into power, shall not fire people anyhow and replace them with cadres. We shall have a professional Civil Service. We shall employ qualified civil servants who will rise through the ranks.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Unfortunately, the PF Government is doing exactly what our colleagues, in the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) did, perhaps, even worse.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: You appointed professional district commissioners, but within a few months, you went 1,000 metres backwards.

Interruptions

Mr Hamududu: The PF Government is performing below par.

Hon. Member interjected.

Mr Hamududu: In light of what you have said, I urge you …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, I warned you against the use of that word which is not good. Hon. Member of Parliament for Katombola, this is the second and last warning.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Please, let us be civil in our comments, especially when you are commenting loudly like that. It is not good.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: You may continue, please.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I can only advise that we address these many challenges, failure to which these will remain mere figures.

With these few words, Sir, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the Motion on the Floor and speak on behalf of the people of Lupososhi Constituency.

Sir, may I, from the outset, congratulate Ms Catherine Phiri on the splendid performance she put up against the Canadian lady.

Mr Speaker, indeed, our country needs to keep growing its economy every time. The total resources for the Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP) have been projected at K132.2 trillion. The expected annual average per annum …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

People on my left have stopped listening. Can you, please, consult quietly so that he can be heard.

The hon. Member may continue, please.

Mr Bwalya: Thank you, Mr Speaker. 

I was saying the expected average is K26.4 trillion per annum. The 2013 Budget is K32.2 trillion, representing a growth of 22 per cent. This is commendable and I think this is what needs to be done.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: Sir, having said that, it should still be acknowledged that the size of our economy is very small. Therefore, the size of our Budget is small no matter what we can do. We need to appreciate that this economy can only absorb so much.

Mr Speaker, the K32.2 trillion presented to this House is around US $6.4 billion, if you put it at K5,000 to a dollar. This amount is too small to enable the nation invest in health, education, agriculture, mining and many other sectors that require attention. It is also too small to ensure that it reduces poverty and tackles the problem of unemployment. 

Sir, the problem of unemployment is quite an enormous and complex task. This country needs to mobilise about US $400 billion from the Government, private sector, and the investors’ world in order to create the about 4.5 million jobs that we need.

Mr Speaker, that being the case, this Budget has addressed a lot of issues among them those that concern the mining sector. It has introduced a property transfer tax of about 10 per cent on the sale or transfer of mining rights. This means that we will have additional funds coming to the National Treasury as we transfer and sale these mining rights.

Sir, the Budget has also reduced capital allowances for mining companies to 25 per cent from 100 per cent. This will also enhance the contribution of the mining sector to the National Treasury. Capital allowances are actually claimed by the mining sector when they buy the equipment. Previously, they have been claiming it at 100 per cent, thereby reducing the taxable profit, but now, they have to spread it over four years, 25 per cent each year. This means the corporate tax will go up. This measure will help the resource envelope to grow and enable us to transfer the funds required to different sectors of the economy.

Mr Speaker, we have also extended the application of the transfer pricing rules to interest groups or associated companies. This will, also, address the issues that we have been facing in terms of concerns arising from the transfer pricing. This will also net in quite a lot of money in the economy. 

Sir, these measures I have talked about are quite commendable, but I must also caution that we need to ensure that we do not over tax the mining sector because it provides a number of jobs. Therefore, we need to be cautious as we introduce these measures that are aimed at getting us as much revenue as possible from the mining sector.

Mr Speaker, it is also true that with these measures, there is no need for us to even continue talking about the windfall tax because these measures …

Mr Livune: Question!

Laughter

Mr Bwalya: … mean that we will be able to get a lot of money from the mining sector. There is the mineral royalty tax. We have reduced the capital allowance and tackled the issues of transfer pricing. We are sure that with this, the mining sector should be able to contribute effectively and positively to the economy of this country.

Mr Speaker, windfall tax is a cancer and, if it is not well implemented, will hurt the hundreds and thousands of jobs that are in the mining sector. If we continue talking about this, and, for some reason or the other, you implement it, it will be against the very principles of equity taxation. Therefore, we need to be extremely careful as we do this.

Sir, we live in a global village and, as Zambians, we belong to the world at large. In Mongolia, the Mongolian Parliament voted to abolish the windfall tax in that country.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members on my left, please, if you feel strongly about what he is saying, you will have an opportunity to rebut. Therefore, please, can you listen to his statement. 

The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, wonders shall never end. I will leave the issue of the windfall profit tax because I think I have said enough about it.

Mr Speaker, this Budget has done quite a lot of justice as regards manufacturing and we should all acknowledge that every import in this county amounts to exporting a job. So, whatever import we bring in, we should know that, as a country, we are exporting a job. What that means is that as we continue being exposed to the imports, more jobs will be exported to other countries. Therefore, this Budget has appropriately touched on producing goods that can be exported competitively and substitute the imports.

Sir, Zambia needs to adopt a well-thought-out private sector-driven import substitution programme or plan, which should have a strategy to fit into a well-thought-out skills training strategy.

Mr Speaker, that is being addressed by the education sector, where K5.6 trillion has been allocated in this year’s Budget. That is, 17.5 per cent of the total National Budget. This is also commendable and we expect that it will help to enhance the country’s education sector so that we can invest in science and technology.

Sir, a clear focus on mathematics, science and research will be able to develop this country. Without research, it will be difficult to know which way to go as a country. We have a mammoth task to ensure that this country’s economy grows. We, in the PF Government, and according to this Budget, have highlighted a lot of issues that are targeted at the rural areas.

Mr Speaker, the rural areas have been neglected for some time, as evidenced by the rural poverty level which is as high as 80 per cent, according to the Central Statistical Office reports.

Sir, the Link Zambia 8,000 Road Network Project has come at the right time, and it is a document and programme which should be used to reduce poverty and create jobs in this country. We know that the time is too short for us in the Government to fulfil all the promises we made to the people and create as many jobs as possible.

Mr Speaker, the previous Governments have, at some point, asked the Zambian people for more time so that they can implement the projects embarked on. Allow me to quote from the Budget Speech presented to this House by the then. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Hon. Emmanuel G. Kasonde in 1992, a year after the MMD assumed power. On page 16, paragraph 123 of that Budget Speech, Hon. Kasonde said: 

“Already we have taken bold measures and announced ambitious policy intentions which we intend to live up to, but I must caution Zambians not to be excessively impatient in expecting results. What took twenty-seven years to destroy cannot be re-built overnight.”

Mr Speaker, we, in the PF, can also say the same about the MMD today.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Good research.

Mr Bwalya: Sir, the MMD’s twenty-year rule of this country brought about a lot of issues that cannot be corrected within a period of one year. It is important that, as we highlight the achievements that we had, we also highlight the negative things and the failures. I followed Hon. Dr Situmbeko Musokotwane’s debate where he highlighted the good things that the MMD had done.

Sir, I said that was quite an achievement, but is it true that we cannot highlight the failures and ills that were brought on the Zambian people? The high levels of corruption were brought in by the MMD governments and so were the high poverty levels.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, burying money was only heard of during the MMD rule. We, also, had a shortage of drugs in hospitals during the MMD reign. The list is long, but the bottom line is that this country requires us to implement this Budget.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

That is better. Once the presiding officer says “Order!”, you must stop talking. Much as I feel that you have to agree or disagree with the views of the hon. Member who is debating, do so attentively so that he advances his argument. If you want to come and counter his arguments, you should do it in a quiet atmosphere. Therefore, please, do not just shout, “Hear, hear!” Hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs, can you listen. 

The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, thank you for your guidance and protection.

Mr Mulusa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for according me this rare opportunity to rise on a point of order. You know I rarely rise on points of order.

Laughter

Mr Mulusa: Sir, the hon. Member of Parliament on the Floor just told us about the importance of talking about both sides of the coin. That is, if they have talked about the MMD successes, there is a need for them to, also, tell us about the other side …

Hon. Government Member: What is your point of order?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Please, do not take over my responsibility. Just give me time to listen to the hon. Member. I, sometimes, allow preliminaries but, hon. Member, in so doing, do not make your preliminary too long because, like that, you will invite unnecessary comments. So, hon. Member, come to your point of order.

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, my point of order is …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, Hon. Deputy Minister, please, stop debating while seated. Hon. Member, you may continue.

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament who is on the Floor in order to state a half truth that the health sector deteriorated under the MMD without mentioning that when that happened, the then hon. Minister of Health was Mr Sata?

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

It is this type of points of order that Presiding Officers disallow because they are not really meant to be points of order, but are meant to seize the opportunity to debate. Please, be patient. If you have something to say, your time will come.

Continue, hon. Member for Lupososhi.

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, I thank Hon. Mulusa for that reminder.

Mr Speaker, we have removed customs duty on a number of products and, therefore, we expect that this will encourage both local and international investors to venture into tourism so that they can, at least, create a number of jobs. I also want to concur with what Mr Chungu, hon. Member of Parliament for Luanshya, said about the removal of Excise Duty on various products. He said that the hon. Minister of Finance could re-look at the proposed measures and see if we could include baby milk on products that will be zero-rated. This will enable HIV-positive women who give birth to HIV-negative babies to afford substitutes for breast milk.

Mr Speaker, it is important that we work together in looking at the many problems that we face, as a country. This Budget is commendable, although we have the huge task of growing the economy. 

Sir, we have real challenges, such as the need to create 4.5 million jobs. We need to develop our rural areas and the road infrastructure in this country within five years. I was just saying that the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Network Project is one which every Zambian must embrace and ensure it is fully-implemented.

Mr Speaker, finally, I would like to go to the issues that Hon. Hamududu touched on. I share most of his views on the things he talked about. Indeed, we need to look at our absorption capacity in the utilisation of money raised through the Euro bond. We also need to look at the issues of implementation and controlling officers because, if the PF Government does not move fast, we will be entangled in many problems in the near future.

Mr Speaker, this is a people-driven Budget which has been accepted by a cross-section of Zambians.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: This acceptance must translate into proper implementation. Yes, there are examples to give in terms of things that have not been implemented in the 2012 Budget, such as the much-talked about 650 health posts. To date, this project has not commenced. The money was released sometime in February and I think that what is happening is not right. We know, as the PF, that this is not right. We also agree that we have to do something about the Civil Service. There is no question about that.

Mr Speaker, we have to work hard. Singapore got its Independence at the same time as Zambia, but it has moved into the First World while Zambia is still in the Third World. The people of Singapore refused to be beggars. That is why they came up and designed means of how to get into the First World. This Budget is not about the PF, but the Zambian people, which is what all of us are. We are only 158 in this House. The majority of Zambians, about 13 million of them, have said that this Budget is for all of us.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, I, therefore, expect that, as we implement it, we work hard, get united and make progress. It does not pay for us, leaders, be it in political parties, the church or elsewhere, to demonise what is well-intended. This country needs a leadership that will rise above partisan politics to develop. I, therefore, expect all my mulamus from the Southern Province to support this Budget.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: That also goes for all my cousins from the Eastern Province, including Mr Speaker.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I was giving you a chance to conclude. Therefore, when we come back, just know that you have concluded your debate.

Laughter

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, from the outset, I would like to congratulate the Opposition for defeating the PF hon. Members of Parliament during the match that was played …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: … on the eve of the Independence Day. They were ‘hammered’ eight goals to three. Or was it two?

Hon. Opposition Members: They were ‘massacred’.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, I am looking at the 2013 Budget Address. First of all, the pictures do not look inspiring. For instance, at the back, there is a picture of apples. I do not know which part of Zambia grows apples and whether the people in Shang’ombo, Kalabo Central or Chavuma eat or have even seen apples before. There is also a picture of a woman cooking something which I do not know if it is munkoyo. I do not understand what is going on in these pictures. We are told that fish is being depleted in rivers, but the Budget Address has a picture of people fishing. I do not know whether these people are catching fish or frogs.

Mr Speaker, when you go to page 2 of the Budget Speech, …

Mr V. Mwale: Inside now.

Mr Namulambe: … on paragraph 14, the hon. Minister said:

“Mr Speaker, another important policy decision in 2012 was the rebasing of the Kwacha. The rebased currency will simplify financial transactions and will become legal tender from 1st January, 2013. I will soon table before this House the Redenomination of Currency Bill to give effect to this policy decision.”

Mr Speaker, the total Budget figure for 2013 is K32.2 trillion. If it was done in the rebased currency, the figures could have been smaller and likewise the Yellow Book. In this regard, I wonder why it was not presented using the rebased currency because the …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: … Bill will come before this House so as to give effect to the new currency, effective 1st January, 2013, but we are still using the old currency. I do not know whether this gives us confidence.

Further, Mr Speaker, …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Let us guide each another. The rebased currency will become legal tender with effect from 1st January, 2013, after the necessary legal instrument has been put in place.

The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Namulambe: Thank you, Mr Speaker for the guidance. 

I am very concerned about the Constitution-making process. On page 39 of the President’s Address of 14th October, 2011, he said:

“The PF Government attaches great importance to good governance and we are committed to delivering a new people-driven Constitution within ninety days.

“The Draft Constitution will be subjected to a referendum and, subsequently, presented to Parliament for enactment.”

Mr Speaker, in the 2013 Budget Address, the hon. Minister of Finance has provided only K20 billion for the Constitution-making process. I do not know whether this assures us that we will have a Constitution within ninety days. We were promised, on the Floor of this House, by the PF Government that we would have a Constitution within one year, but one year has elapsed without a new Constitution being enacted. It will soon be 2013, and yet we still have no assurance of having a new Constitution. 

Mr Speaker, I think that it is important for the PF Government to inform us that it does not support this Constitution-making process, instead of continuing to put figures that will go towards the consultation processes that are going on and payment of allowances to the people who are sitting on the technical committee. We need a proper assurance by this Government that, indeed, Zambians will have the Constitution they have been talking about. With the meagre amount of K20 billion in place, I doubt if there will be a people-driven Constitution within the time that has been stated. The Government will keep promising as if it is still in the Opposition, and yet it is time it to act and inform us what its intentions are.

Mr Speaker, the Budget Speech is very good ... 

Ms Lubezhi: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very compelling Constitutional point of order.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: As a member of the Committee on Delegated Legislation, I cannot remember seeing a statutory instrument (SI) where colours of our National Flag have been changed. The National Flag and Armorial Ensigns Act, Chapter 6 of the Laws of Zambia states the following with regard to the national colours: 

(a)“Spectrum Green”, British Colour Council Shade Reference 100;

(b)“Union Jack Red”, British Colour Council Shade Reference 210;

(c)“Jet Black”, British Colour Council Shade Reference 220; and

(d)“Spectrum Orange”, British Colour Council Shade Reference 57.

Mr Speaker, we have been seeing these flags being sold everywhere in shops. This is the colour (showing the flag to the hon. Members of the House). This is not the Zambian flag.

Mr Speaker, is the Government in order, through the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, to allow such a distortion of our National Flag? The National Flag and Armorial Ensigns Act, Cap. 6, Section 3 states:

“Any person who does any act or utters any words with intent to insult or bring into contempt or ridicule the National Flag, the Standard or the Armorial Ensigns, or any representation thereof, shall be guilty of an offence and liable, on conviction, to imprisonment for a period not exceeding two years.”

Interruptions

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, is the Government, through the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, in order to allow people, much as I appreciate entrepreneurship, to trade in a version of our National Flag which is distorted with wrong colours? 

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi laid the National Flag on the Table.

Hon. Opposition Member: The PF Government has failed.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

The ruling of the Chair is that His Honour the Vice-President must come with an explanation on that exhibit at an appropriate time. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Where is he?

The Deputy Chairperson: He has seen for himself.

The hon. Member for Mpongwe can continue.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, before the point of order was raised, I was saying that the Budget presentation is very good, but one wonders whether it will be achieved. 

Mr Speaker, there is a schedule on page 10 of the 2013 Expenditure by Functions of the Government. It is very good and the people who heard the speech may think that it is going to be beneficial to the poor. However, when you go through the Yellow Book, much of what has been presented will not be achieved because much of it is going into non-core issues. For instance, almost 50 per cent of the amount in the schedule will go towards salaries, and I do not know what the percentages of those adjustments are. Worse still, there are some institutions that are still understaffed and, once they fill their staff establishments, you wonder what the figures will be. For instance, the Mwekera Aquaculture Centre in Kitwe is understaffed. The funding for this institution is less and there is nothing going into research and recapitalisation, and yet we must diversify from growing crops to fish farming. 

Mr Speaker, at the back of the 2013 Budget Address, there is a picture of people fishing when there is no fish to talk about. The Government talks about restocking fish in rivers when Mwekera Aquaculture Centre is not adequately funded. I do not know whether we are capable of restocking our rivers and whether the farmers who intend to go into fish farming, like myself, will be able to get good fingerlings because the demand is very high, but very little has been allocated thereto. 

Sir, when the Government talks about the K32.2 trillion, what is it boasting of? I would like to agree with Hon. Hamududu that there is a need for us to review the Budget. For instance, since the PF Government claim that this is its first Budget, it should have done away with the traditional figures in the Yellow Book. What it has done is increase some allocations to some activities. So, what is the party claiming to be its own? The Government is just adding on allocations that were there under the MMD Government. If anything, some of the allocations have remained the same. 
Therefore, when they say that this is their Budget, the best thing they could have done was to review the performance of the Budget from 2010 to 2012, and look at the real revenue and expenditure to see the issues at hand. 

Interruptions

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, I am speaking from experience. Some of the people who are just talking from their benches do not know what I am talking about because they have never passed through the mill that I have passed through.

Interruptions

Hon. G. B. Mwamba walked into the Chamber.

Hon. Opposition Members: GBM, GBM!

Hon. Member: Ema presidents aya!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, order!

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, it is right for them to claim that it is their Budget and that they want to perform. The figures on page 10, on agriculture are quite good, but the Yellow Book has nothing on job creation for the people. 

I can challenge the Government whether these hon. Ministers understand these figures. We are going to see them fidgeting as we go to the individual votes because they do not own the Budget. They do not understand the figures. If they did, they would have realised, during consideration of the Budget Speech, that their debates were contrary to what is contained in the Yellow Book. The people who listened to the Budget Speech think that it is a good Budget, but it is a very bad one.

Hon. Government Member: Question!

Mr Namulambe: We are going to judge them because they will fail to perform. The actual resources are going into issues that will not benefit the poor person in Mpongwe.

Hon. Opposition members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, I do not even think that they will achieve what they want as regards the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Network Project. Under Formula I, we constructed 172 km over a period of one year, but they are talking about 8,000 km. How many kilometres are they going to construct per year? It can be seen that they will not be able to reach the target because, in the first place, we do not have so many contractors in Zambia that can undertake the jobs that they intend to carry out.

Mr Speaker, it could be an ambitious Budget, but they have to be realistic. You can boast and that is fine. It is like dreaming. I can dream that I own a plane, but when I wake up in the morning, I find that I was dreaming and start to wonder where the plane is. Equally, this Budget is a dream and we agree with them. However, we want to see if they will achieve their dream and the figures become a reality.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Member: Hanjika!

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, some of the things sound good. For instance, I hear that they intend to remove duty on equipment that can help in the provision of health services. However, I do not know whether they will go ahead to check the private surgeries to see whether they will have reduced the cost of services. This incentive will only make surgery owners richer. 

Mr Speaker, I wonder why they had to impose tax on roofing sheets which benefit a rural farmer in Mpongwe who, after selling maize, may buy some roofing sheets in order to protect himself from the rain. However, to the contrary, they have removed duty on equipment for their own private ventures. 

Mr Speaker, they have removed Excise Duty on carbonated drinks, but whether these drinks will be cheaper is another thing because there is no mechanism for this Government to regulate prices for the commodities on which they are reducing duty.

Mr Speaker, for a person in Chief Machiya’s area, these drinks are a luxury. We just drink Munkoyo. Therefore, for whose benefit is the reduction of the excise duty? In Misisi Compound, there are very few people who take these carbonated drinks. 

Mr Muntanga: They are for the elite.

Mr Namulambe: Why, then, remove duty on such commodities and impose it on roofing sheets? Are you speaking for the poor or are you a Government for the poor?

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Mr Namulambe: I would like the people in my area to hear that this Government has said they should continue to sleep in grass-thatched houses because it has increased the price of roofing sheets.

Mr Speaker, we have talked about providing new equipment at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH), Ndola Central Hospital and Kitwe Central Hospital. Can we see to it that we reduce the number of people flying out for medical treatment abroad. You were saying that you cannot go for a knee surgery to South Africa when we have these hospitals. Therefore, please, provide the necessary equipment. I know that Zambia has the best doctors, but they do not have the equipment. We are not in the Government, you are. Provide what doctors need for them to provide good quality health services for the people of Zambia. Let us avoid the many people flying out to India or to South Africa for heart surgeries and other treatments. Let us ensure that we provide the essential drugs in all these hospitals and clinics as opposed to window dressing. You can window dress, but if you cannot afford to buy the commodity, then, what is it for?

Mr Speaker, let me talk about the issue of forestry. We are encouraging people to plant more trees and enhance private sector participation. We have seen the indiscriminate cutting down of timber in the Copperbelt plantations. I can foresee that, very soon, Zambia will start importing pine timber because the trees that were planted in the Kaunda era are all gone. There is very little that is being done to ensure that we revamp that sector. You may just watch it. It is up to you.

Mr Speaker, I would like to look at the issue of the paved roads that they intend to construct in the urban areas. They are talking about 2,000 km of township roads, using the labour-intensive paving blocks. Let them not just think of Lusaka, Kitwe or Ndola. They must also think of places such as Milenge, Mpongwe, Shang’ombo, Kalabo, Mongu and Lundazi.

Laughter

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, let them take these paved roads to the areas where people have never seen a paved road and not just concentrate on areas where paved roads already are. Let us also move to other areas. 

Mr Speaker, this Government is creating districts. There is K204 billion provided in this Budget for infrastructure development. That amount is just for one district, and yet they continue to create more. I hope that when they go to Mufumbwe, they will not make another pronouncement to try to entice the people there to vote for them even when they are losing. They must, first of all, stop creating new districts. They must source more funding for the already existing districts.

 The issue of decentralisation has not been talked about much. There is also very little that has been provided for decentralisation to take place. I do not know whether they even understand the road map for the Decentralisation Implementation Plan.

Mr Speaker, it is important that we give more money to local Government. They are talking about the figures which are in the Budget Speech. These figures are just cosmetic. They are not real. This money is not enough to run the local authorities. Like Hon. Professor Nkandu Luo said when she was hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, the councils are dead and need more money. We are going to move a lot of amendments, like Hon. Lubinda used to when he was on the left side. Be prepared for many amendments …

Mr Lubinda: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, is Hon. Gabriel Namulambe in order to bring me into his debate, which is a debate clearly coming from a person who has not opened the first page of the Budget Speech? Is he in order to try to improve his debate by bringing my name into it? I seek your serious ruling.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The serious ruling is that the hon. Member was out of order when he brought you into his debate, when you were listening attentively to his contribution. 

The hon. Member may continue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, on page 10 … 

Laughter

Mr Namulambe: … of this Budget, K150 billion has been allocated to the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). We are going to make many amendments to ensure that we improve this Budget, like they used to when they were on the left side of the House. Take note that if you want the allocation for the CDF to be approved, you have to amend it upwards to K5 billion.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: There are many areas that are unnecessary, such as salaries, personal emoluments, capacity building, among others. We are going to reduce the amounts on these areas. We know where the money is in this Budget. Be prepared for the amendments. I will not mention the names of those who used to move amendments.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, they used to sit where I am sitting. We are going to make many amendments and ensure the CDF is increased to K5 billion, hon. Minister of Finance.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to add my voice on behalf of the people of Siavonga, to the debate on this Motion on the Budget Speech that was delivered this month by the hon. Minister of Finance, and not ‘falling affairs’.

Mr Speaker, before I delve into the actual Budget, I would like to address the issues that I consider pertinent to the implementation of the Budget. The Budget will operate in an environment that I am going to analyse now. The hon. Minister of Finance might have done his best, but, if this Budget is going to operate in an environment that is not conducive, it is bound to fail. The environment that I am talking about includes elements such as the Constitution. Let me comment on one constitutional issue that is in our midst, and that we are just watching. This issue must be taken very seriously. 

Mr Speaker, the team that is on your right consists of the Captain, Vice-Captain and the rest are lieutenants. We have a Vice-President who, in my opinion, is well qualified to deputise the President in terms of his ability to perform. However, there is a constitutional issue surrounding his position. I know that in our African set up, it is not usual to talk about death or incapacitation that may befall our President. If we just paused for a moment, and imagined that our President were incapacitated in one way or the other, and was no longer President of Zambia, God forbid that should happen, can you imagine what would happen. The hon. Minister of Justice, although he is absent as usual, is watching the situation which would plunge ...

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to raise this point of order. The hon. Member is failing to articulate the issues which he must be articulating on the Budget Speech. He is now talking about a matter which is unrelated to the subject. Secondly, it is an issue that the Speaker has ruled on several times before. However, he keeps going back to it. Why should we be taken seven steps backwards? Is he in order?

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

My understanding of the contribution by the hon. Member is that he was trying to address the Constitution-making process that is, currently, underway. He was using that as an example of the possible areas we should look at as we engage ourselves in the Constitution-making process. To that extent, he was correct and in order. However, it is important for the hon. Member not to spend much time on that because there are other issues he needs to address.  

The hon. Member may continue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, I was simply advising the Government to look at this issue very seriously because I am a concerned and patriotic Zambian.

Mr Speaker, I would like to address the environment under which this Budget is going to operate. I know that the hon. Minister indicated that he would like to grow the economy of Zambia and bring development. We must make sure that these two things are balanced. Otherwise, if we start making populist pronouncements, we may put the economy under very intense pressure. In terms of job creation, I would like to look at the new districts that have been created. I know that some of the jobs that the hon. Minister is looking forward to creating will emanate from the creation of these new districts. These are jobs that do not add to the growth of the gross domestic product (GDP) of this country. I am going to underscore that point. I will give an example of a newly-formed district, Chikankata.

Mr Speaker, in order to give clean drinking water to the people of Mabwetuba in Chikankata, and to take good roads to Chikankata, you do not need a new district, commissioner or council secretary. All you have to do is empower the Mazabuka District Council. The council has not performed in that area not because the area under its jurisdiction is too big, but because it is under-funded.

Hon. Opposition Members:  Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, the money that will go to the emoluments of the district commissioners and the council officers should, in my opinion, be given to the existing district council. That is the money that can be used to develop Chikankata. We know that you would like to be popular. There is nothing wrong with earmarking an area for district status after three years from now, so that you can provide enough resources to grow it to district level. That is what we call planning. There is a book, which I will not mention, that says, “Who can start a journey that he cannot finish?” How can you start building a house, whose cost you do not know? If you do that, you are bound to fail.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, if you look at how these new districts are being formed, it is a random and haphazard manner. This shows that they have not been planned for. If we are not careful, we will be shooting in the wrong direction.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, why should a district be declared in a place where there is no single building? What is wrong with preparing for that district by providing resources and putting infrastructure in place and, then, in 2016, when the United Party for National Development (UPND) takes over, we shall acknowledge that you started it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu: It shall be known that the district was planned by the PF Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

I sympathise with the hon. Minister of Finance. While he is trying to show direction, some of his co-players are shooting in the opposite direction. The dangerous situation is that, actually, it is some of the star players who are shooting in the opposite direction.

Sir, the hon. Minister of Finance has alluded to the fact that he would like to bring decentralisation and we are 100 per cent in agreement with him. However, when decentralising, the distance to the Central Government offices does not matter because power is devolved to the people at the grassroots.

In re-aligning some of the districts, Chirundu, in particular, the justification which was given is that of administrative convenience. It was reasoned that Choma is too far compared to Lusaka. Are we decentralising or centralising? I have asked this question because when planning for Chirundu, the distance to the provincial head office does not arise. In this era and age, I understand that some of the players are showing signs of former glory.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, this time, how often does a controlling officer at a district travel to the provincial head office and for what? With regard to the re-alignment of Chirundu, for the sake of the people who may not know, when travelling from Lusaka, as you cross the Kafue Bridge, you go via Chikankata District and then drive a distance of 20 km to 30 km before reaching Chirundu District.

However, we are making Chirundu part of Lusaka Province but, first, you have to pass through another district before you get to Chirundu District.

Laughter

Mr Hamudulu: These are the facts on the ground. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu: We are saying that you are opposing the hon. Minister of Finance and other planners in decentralising. The power is at the base.

Mr Livune: Bamvela nsoni. Bazadwala!

Laughter

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, that is why we wanted the hon. Minister of Finance to be present in the House. He is listening quietly and those we knew would not listen are not listening. They are busy passing running comments.

Laughter

Mr Hamudulu: We were waiting for the hon. Minister whom we knew would listen.

Interruptions 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Member is debating and I do not think he has requested other hon. Members to give him some assistance in one form or another.

May you, please, continue.

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, I would like to move on to the area of agriculture. Just like they did not consult in the creation and re-alignment of districts, they have, again, missed the target concerning agriculture over the issue of cotton. The hon. Minister of Finance has missed the target. If he consults the cotton farmers, they will tell him that their problem does not lie in inputs because the out-grower scheme is adequately providing for that. The devil lies in the marketing of the crop, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu: … but they have not spoken about it. Here, they are bringing issues of giving us – and the hon. Deputy Minister told us that they were going to provide one bag of D-Compound fertiliser and seed. I do not know of a place where they grow cotton using D-Compound fertiliser. That is why I am saying that there was no consultation. 

Mr Speaker, I am just coming from my area, Siavonga, where we grow a lot of cotton. The people’s cry is the market price. That is where you should put more effort and not the provision of seed. Even now, we have seed and chemicals that remained from the last season. Therefore, we will not appreciate that input. Give us what we need and that is a proper marketing system.

Sir, just across Siavonga, there is a place called Nyamunga and Kariba in Zimbabwe. They grow cotton just like we do. We use the same method. They grow it on an out-grower scheme and they deal with the same companies we deal with here. Let us be serious. Just think for a moment. Our friends across the river were selling cotton at a price of US$1 per kg. Here, we were given K1,000 per kg. What does that mean? Is that being a caring Government? In the meantime, they want to give us more seed and D-Compound fertiliser. We do not need it. What we need are marketing strategies for this crop.

Mr Speaker, when we asked …

The Vice-President: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am very sorry to have to raise a point of order. When total falsehoods are quoted as a basis for condemning our policies like, for example, saying the Zimbabweans across the lake are getting a dollar for a kilogram of cotton and, here, the farmers are getting only 20 cents for a kilogram, it is so false and so misleading that I felt compelled to interject ...

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

I have not solicited for your support on my left.

May His Honour the Vice-President, please, proceed.

The Vice-President: Is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to simply make up figures in this House?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

As the hon. Member debates, please, take that point of order into account.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, let me move on, then, to tourism, and continue to make comparisons. 

Sir, in addressing the issue of tourism, the hon. Minister of Finance alluded to the upcoming United Nations World Tourism Organisation (UNWTO) Conference which will be co-hosted by Zimbabwe and us. I am left with no choice, but to compare our preparedness with that of the Zimbabweans. 

Again, like I said, driving through the streets of Livingstone, today, there is no indication that these people are preparing for such an event. There is none at all. I live in Siavonga, just across from a town called Kariba. There is massive preparedness there. People are preparing for this event. After this event, we are going to cry that most of the people went to stay across when, actually, we know that these people are preparing for this event. I do not know how many roads are being prepared in Livingstone now. 

I passed through Livingstone not too long ago and, for us here, everything is centred on Livingstone. That is not how our friends are preparing. Even Siavonga and Kazungula should take part. We should get maximum benefits from this upcoming conference, but we are busy, here, talking about the UNWTO and all these cars that we are bringing in. Yes, these cars will come, but they will be ferrying people across to Zimbabwe. I do not think that we are going to benefit out of that.

Mr Speaker, there is an area that the hon. Minister commented on and it, really, touched me because I know it works. I commend the hon. Minister of Finance and the hon. Minister in charge of the Social Cash Transfer. On this score, all I can say is that the hon. Minister of Finance should add a little bit more of resources towards it.

Sir, I had a privilege of accompanying Hon. Kazunga on a trip to Monze East just to see what impact this Social Cash Transfer has on the ground. 

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu: I can testify that this is the way to go.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, we met people of the lowest income values who are, really, benefitting from this scheme. We met a woman who is HIV positive but she is so full of life all because of this Social Cash Transfer. She showed us what she had done with the money. She lives better than some of the people who live in Misisi and Chibolya compounds, here, and some of the people who have money, but are misdirecting it. They are spending it on wrong issues. 

I, therefore, I appeal to the hon. Minister of Finance to work with Hon. Dr Katema. If possible, I would advise that some of the technocrats who are involved in coining or drafting this Budget, are taken to see some of their work performing on the ground. This is one of them.

Mr Speaker, in moving forward, I would like to talk about implementation. A Budget, no matter how well it is intended, if not well implemented, goes to doom. 

Mr Speaker, my appeal to the Government is for them to take a closer look. I know that when it is coming from this side of the House, it is just brushed aside. However, I would appeal to them to look, again, at the issue of district commissioners (DCs). There are a lot of well-intended programmes that are being misunderstood by the DC’s whose sole purpose is to please the appointing authority. The only way they can do that is by showing that they are more PF than anybody else at the expense of the offices that they are supposed to be administering. That is an appeal which you can choose to take or leave. However, when 2016 comes, you are going to be judged on such appeals that might go unheeded.

Sir, in conclusion, I would like to say that this Budget must be implemented to the letter.

Hon. Opposition Member: The CDF.

Mr Hamudulu: Yes, the CDF. 

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, under decentralisation, we have been told that projects that are coming from Dambwe Ward in my constituency at Kazela Village should be appraised by the Permanent Secretary sitting in Lusaka.

Hon. Opposition Member: Question!

Mr Hamudulu: Sir, we have Constituency Development Committee members that live among the people whose projects we are to appraise. We have the District Development Co-Co-ordinating Committee (DDCC) and, then, we have the Member of Parliament who is always there. 

For example, I am just coming from Kazela Village. Who is better placed to appraise that project between me and the hon. Minister seated here with his Permanent Secretary at the Government Complex?

Mr Speaker, this CDF condition that has been given is shooting in the wrong direction when it comes to decentralisation. This coupled with the fact that the K1 billion shall not pass.

Interruptions

Mr Hamudulu: Sir, the K1 billion shall be amended and I know that most of the Members from the Government, silently, agree with me.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu: Colleagues, impress upon the hon. Minister of Finance, as you drink tea and talk to him in those Cabinet offices, because we need this CDF not because we want to come back having performed on account of the CDF, but because we have seen it working on the ground.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr J. Zimba (Chama North): Mr Speaker I thank you for giving me this opportunity. I will be very normal in my debate. 

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr J. Zimba: Mr Speaker, there are a few issues which I would like to look at in relation to the Budget. I do not see any difference between the manner in which the Budget was presented in the past and the manner in which it has been presented this year.

Interruptions

Mr J. Zimba: The Budget presentation has an outlined system on how it should be presented. The only bone of contention is the type of politics which we are playing on the ground. In the United National Independence Party (UNIP) era when the Budget was presented here, there was no argument … 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Zimba: It was a one-party participatory democracy.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr J. Zimba: Mr Speaker, the type of policy which was guiding the Budget in the time of UNIP was nationalisation and not privatisation. The economy was in the hands of the Government and not the people. If the economy is in the hands of the Government, it has full responsibility to care for its people whether in employment or the social sector. It was all upon the head of the Government.

Sir, in 1981, the MMD saw that the UNIP Government lacked in economic skills. This lack of skill caused inflation to rise beyond acceptable levels. We were running out of goods although we had a lot of cash in our pockets. The MMD saw that we were heading in the direction that would cause them to halt as a Government and so they took over the Government with a policy of privatisation.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Zimba: To privatise is to encourage people to manage the economy. The Budget presentation should, therefore, concentrate on how the Government can provide an environment which encourages people to participate in the management of the affairs of the economy. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Zimba: That is how we are going to judge the Budget when it is presented here. Apart from that, whatever else we are debating is politics and not genuine.

Hon. Opposition Member: Question!

Mr J. Zimba: Sir, the late Ronald Penza, may his soul rest in peace, impressed me in terms of his Budget presentation. I learned words that day that I still struggle to interpret today. 

Laughter

Hon. Government Member: What are those words?

Mr J. Zimba: I cannot even mention the words because you will not remember them.

Laughter

Mr J. Zimba: The international community agreed that it was a very … 

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr J. Zimba: … good Budget.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Members to my left, let us abstain from making unsolicited interventions.

Mr J. Zimba: I would like to explain, properly, so that we understand some of these issues. Those Budgets, when brought here, created the issue of unemployment, you can all agree with me. 

Hon. Government Member: MMD.

Mr J. Zimba: Mr Speaker, one cannot run away from a policy. A political party is supposed to have a policy. Whether it has brought negative or positive effects, it is necessary that the party learns from it whether people are happy or not. The privatisation policy is what brought these issues of unemployment.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Zimba: At the time businesses and companies were being handed over to the people, all investors who were buying companies were saying that they could not manage with the large number of workers on their staff. They were laying off staff but, today, we want to put the blame on somebody. The problem is the policy and not the person. We must understand that. Even now, as the PF Government, if our policy is privatisation, we should not come on to the platform and think we can create employment ourselves otherwise we will contradict ourselves there.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Zimba: What needs to be done to build on a policy of privatisation is to provide a conducive environment. That is the job of the Government. 

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Zimba: There are very few sectors in which the Government can create employment in the policy of privatisation. We need to debate these things in a normal and sober manner because the people whom we are leading do not understand these issues … 

Mr Livune: On a point of order, Sir.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

A point of Order is raised.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, I like the way the colleague on the Floor is debating. However, could he, kindly, inform this House the policies of the PF. Is he in order not to tell us the policies of the PF?

The Deputy Chairperson: May the hon. Member continue.

Mr J. Zimba: Mr Speaker, I thank you. I know all these things.

Laughter

Mr J. Zimba: I may look young, but the … 

The Deputy Chairperson: Address the Speaker.

Mr J. Zimba: … understanding is a bit interesting.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Desist from engaging in cross-Chamber debates and concentrate on addressing me.

Mr J. Zimba: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance. 

Mr Speaker, although many people are saying that this is a PF Budget, I do not agree with them. This is a Government Budget. In other words, it is a national document. It, therefore, demands our input as hon. Members of Parliament. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Zimba: Mr Speaker, when I was still growing up, my father said to me: “My son, you must be strong, but not bitter.”

Laughter

Mr J. Zimba: 

“Be a strong child who can face challenges. When you are arguing with people, you should be able to stand your ground. You never know, you might have an idea which may be implemented tomorrow. When you are talking to me, do not think that I am not listening or that I cannot understand you. Do not wait to hear me say, ‘I have understood.’” 

Mr Speaker, what I am trying to say is that this Budget is implemented by the Executive. As a PF Back Bencher, my appeal to the Executive is that it be very sober, humble and patient when debating this Budget. The people in the Executive are our fathers. Whether we like it or not, they are the ones who are going to implement this Budget. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Zimba: Mr Speaker, the rest of us need to bombard the Executive with ideas that will convince them. Whether they show that they are convinced or not, they should be able to see that adjustments are necessary in some areas. That is how the Executive should work. If it does not listen to us, it will not get any good ideas and suggestions from us.  In this House, we are all representing the people. Last time, I said in this House that …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

I think it is about time we advised each other on the rules applicable here. When an hon. Member has been given the Floor and he/she is debating, it is incumbent upon all of us to give him all due respect and attention. It will not do to interrupt him. If an hon. Member wants to debate, let him/her pick up his/her courage and catch my eye. The art of debating while seated is as counter-productive as it is dishonourable. I hope you will take heed of that. 

Continue, Hon. Zimba.

Mr J. Zimba: Mr Speaker, although it helps, sometimes, to give examples from our lives, let me leave that aside and go straight to important issues.   

Mr Speaker, I would like to comment on four issues that were mentioned by the hon. Minister of Finance in the 2013 Budget Speech. These are the procurement process, the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) and Maize Marketing, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and the implementation of projects, which involves the Executive, civil society organisations and Parliamentarians. 

Mr Speaker, on the procurement process, it is hurtful to see a situation in which a Budget is presented but, at the end of it, no projects are implemented. When an audit is done, the findings are that only about a quarter of the fund has been used. As an hon. Member of Parliament, it becomes very difficult for me to explain to my constituents how the money was spent. I get concerned because that can cause confusion in my constituency. The electorates may think that the Government is not operating well when, in fact, that is not the case. 

Mr Speaker, during the Budget Speech, I heard that the procurement process will be shortened. We must use simple words which our society can understand. My piece of advice to the Executive, especially the hon. Minister of Finance, is that any project which is budgeted for must be implemented within six months. This way, we will believe that this is a people’s Government.  

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr J. Zimba: Mr Speaker, with regard to the FRA, in this House, sometimes, we debate as if we do not really know what is happening out there.  At times, ‘I cry without tears’. 

Laughter

Mr J. Zimba: Mr Speaker, I would like to urge the Government to accept when it is wrong. I am waiting for such a thing to happen because, every time a Government is blamed for something, it always defends itself. I do not know what the problem is. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr J. Zimba: Mr Speaker, people sent us to Parliament to speak for them. We must all know that when we are debating, we are representing the people and do not do so from a personal point of view. When we had a meeting in Muchinga, I remember raising an issue about the FRA. Does the FRA operate independently or not?

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr J. Zimba: Mr Speaker, I am saying so because the FRA is portraying the picture that this Government is not working. Why is it behaving in such a manner? There was a time when we had even put the Provincial Agricultural Co-ordinating Officer (PACO) in trouble. We asked what the role of the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock was if it could watch the FRA confusing many things. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Zimba: What is the work of the Government? We must not tolerate such things. I note that the Government has allocated K300 billion for maize purchasing. I have no problem with this because any figure can be put here. This figure was allocated even in the last Budget. Even if it was there, I noted that there was a problem. No one can say that I am cheating. I saw farmers cry and I stand here as an hon. Member of Parliament …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The use of the word, ‘cheating’ is unparliamentary. Please, refrain from using it. 

Continue.

Mr J. Zimba: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance. I will replace the word ‘cheating’ with ‘misleading.’

Mr Speaker, in this House, we are all hon. Members of Parliament and we must not look at issues at the political level. As an hon. PF Member, I will not look at issues at the party level.
  
As an hon. Member of Parliament, I must express my views because, when I do that, I am giving an opportunity to the Executive to see how best an issue can be worked out. If I do not speak the truth, then I am misleading the Executive. In future, I will fail to work with the Government when there will be a problem in my constituency.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J.  Zimba: Let me talk about the K300 billion which, in the 2012 Budget, brought us a problem. From what I heard during the several occasions that the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock was questioned, …

Hon. Opposition Members: The CDF.

Mr J. Zimba: Do not talk about the CDF first. I heard …

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Give me a minute, Hon. Zimba. 

I think that some hon. Opposition Members were warned, and I have not forgotten that some warnings were final.

You may continue, hon. Member.

Mr J. Zimba: I remember that the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock was bombarded on this issue on several occasions. The answer he gave then in order to make people understand was that the FRA had been given the authority to source funds and pay farmers. That was the answer that was given as a solution to solve the problem of the FRA on maize marketing. The hon. Minister of Finance has factored in the same amount of money.

Sir, the advice I can give, as an hon. Member of Parliament, is that, in case there is a shortage next year, and the money to purchase maize is to be sourced by the FRA, that system must start as early as possible so that, by the time the marketing season comes, we will have the funds already in place. The farmers should not suffer as if there is no Government in place.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Zimba: If this figure is enough for the Government to give to the FRA, then the FRA should start making plans at an early stage. The sourcing of funds must not be done when we have already got maize from the farmers. As a Government, let us give authority to the FRA at an early stage so that the agency does not tarnish the image of a very competent Government.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Zimba: I do not agree that the PF Government is an ordinary Government, having come through amid vibrant competition. The party won elections based on very important issues that it raised, including alleviating poverty levels among Zambians. There is no way the FRA can be a tool of destruction in our governance system. We will not accept that. If the Government has authority, let it authorise the FRA and ensure that it tolls the Government’s line. That is what I am talking about with regard to the issue on maize marketing. The K300 billion can be there, but if the Government has no authority, then there is a need to increase this amount so that things can be done, once and for all.

Hon. Government Member: Time!

Mr J. Zimba: Mr Speaker, let me move to the issue of the CDF. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Zimba: The CDF redeems the Government. 

Hon. Members: Yes.

Mr J. Zimba: I have come to understand that, in one way or another. I was just talking about the delay in the implementation of projects which are budgeted for by the Government. If the Government delays in implementing projects in my constituency, and I do not have enough money to do it myself, then we will all be doomed at the end of the day.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr J. Zimba: Mr Speaker, the issue of the CDF …
 
The hon. Member’s time expired.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Any further debate?

Mr Kunda (Muchinga): Mr Speaker, thank you very much …

Interruptions 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Mr Kunda: … for giving me this opportunity because this is the first time that I am standing to debate on real issues. 

Mr Speaker, let me go straight into the important issues that we, as the people of Zambia, need to address.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kunda: I will talk about various issues, which include the promises that the PF Government made to the Zambian people. These are more money in the pockets, the creation of more jobs and roads among others. All these issues have not been addressed by the PF Government from the time that it took over power.

Mr Speaker, the youths who voted for the PF Government in numbers are disappointed because they have been neglected by the Government. The hon. Minister mentioned that, as a way of creating employment opportunities for the people, there will be a creation of 200,000 jobs. One would ask if these jobs are for youths because this Government is known for waking up people when they are sleeping at their farms.

Laughter

Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, does this include the people who have been woken up or who will be woken up at that time? These 200,000 jobs that the PF Government intends to create and, in the long run, after the five years, it plans to have created 1,000,000 jobs, ...

Mr Kalaba: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, I rarely rise on points of order. Is the hon. Member of Parliament for Muchinga in order to say that people were being woken up by the PF Government without specifically stating who was being woken up. Is he in order to leave the House in suspense by not unveiling the truth about what he is talking about, because this is lacking clarity? 

I need your very serious ruling on this matter.

The Deputy Chairperson: The very serious ruling is that the hon. Member who is debating first started by questioning the 200,000 jobs which are intended to be created. He went on to question whether these 200,000 jobs are for the youth or for those who were woken up in the night from their farms. In short, …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Do not tempt me. When the hon. Speaker is speaking, courtesy and decorum demands that you listen, just as I listen to you throughout, even when you are unceremoniously debating while seated.

What the hon. Member was asking is whether these jobs are for the youths or for those people who are not youths. That is, basically, how I understood his statement.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance. 

Mr Speaker, are the 200,000 jobs really meant for the youth? I ask this because this Government is known for going backward and not forward. There are a lot of youths with degrees and PhDs. However, we are going backwards. We are waking up people who were in Government long ago and bringing them back. 

Laughter

Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Just to give guidance, people have the right to be woken up from their sleep.

You may continue debating. 

Laughter 

Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance. 

Mr Speaker, most of the 200,000 jobs will be in the agriculture sector. The hon. Minister did not, however, outline how these jobs will be created. My colleague, Hon. January Zimba talked about agriculture and how the amount allocated to this sector is insufficient. 

Mr Speaker, there is an allocation of K50 billion for the youth. The youth make up 68 per cent, if I am not mistaken, of the total population. If we only allocated K50 billion to the youth, who, in terms of numbers are about 8 million, and if we divided this figure by the allocated amount, one would wonder what employment or wealth is being created for the young people. 

Mr Speaker, I expected the hon. Minister to put more emphasis on issues that would create more jobs for the youth and allocate more money, which they could access for the creation of businesses so that they may employ themselves and, in turn, others.  

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, I think that if the youth went to school and obtained degrees and PhDs, they would have the capacity to create jobs. It is most likely that they can create employment for this country. I expected the hon. Minister to put more money for this age-group. I can even suggest a figure of not less than K5 trillion because these are the people who put those people in Government. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kunda: We needed to put more money in their pockets by providing more money. 

Mr Speaker, the people of Muchinga want to get development very quickly. 

Laughter 

Mr Kunda: The CDF of K1 billion, just as other hon. Members who debated before me stated, should be revisited. This amount will not pass.    

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kunda: We need more money to address developmental issues in our constituencies. I think that even the K5 billion being advocated for is insufficient. However, for now, it will suffice. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, we should not compare ourselves with other people or countries because we have people who are educated here. We have people who understand economics and real issues. It beats me why we compare ourselves to Mongolia. 

Laughter 

Mr Kunda: Arrrgh!

Laughter 

Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, I think that this country has come a long way. We have covered forty-eight years. Therefore, we cannot be talking about other countries. We need to look at these issues and come up with solutions. I am sure that the hon. Minister is writing down these issues because they concern the many youths of this country. 

Mr Speaker, this Government said that it would conclude the Constitution-making process within ninety days. This may be an old slogan which it used to come into power, but the people are anxiously waiting to see their Constitution enacted in good time. 

We are, therefore, urging the hon. Minister of Finance to put more money in this activity so that we can complete it quickly and conclusively. We want issues to do with the 50 per cent plus 1 majority and a running mate over and done with as quickly as possible and before the elections. The money should be allocated thereto so that it is resolved quickly. 

Mr Speaker, this PF Government must be a minority Government. 

Laughter 

Mr Kunda: Not all the Zambian people agreed with them and they keep on poaching from this end. If it were a majority Government, then, we would …

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir. 

Mr Mulusa: Ba Kampyongo, ikaleni fye. 

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised. 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to rise on this point of order. I have been trying to follow my brother who is debating, and, of course, I am struggling. Is he in order to start using terms such as ‘poaching’ in reference to the movement of people when he knows very well that this is a democratic dispensation where people can move from the UPND to the MMD and vice-versa or from the MMD to the PF? Is he in order to refer to the free movement of people as ‘poaching’? I really need your serious ruling. 

The Deputy Chairperson: To an extent, the hon. Member was emphasising that, in his view, the Government is a minority Government. He further said that it is ‘poaching’ people from here, but did not elaborate the details of the alleged poaching. He was out of order. However, above all, the use of the word ‘poaching’ is unparliamentary. Therefore, for using an unparliamentary word to express what he wanted to express, he was out of order.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: You may continue with your debate.

Mr Mucheleka: Nabomfwa! Message taken!

Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, thank you for your guidance.

Sir, before I was interrupted by the point of order, I was about to say that the hon. Minister of Finance has allocated K1.9 trillion to the agriculture sector, but it is not enough. This is because we were expecting that more youths would be employed in this sector. Further, the allocation of K500 billion to the FISP is also not enough. Therefore, we would like the hon. Minister to address these issues.

Mr Speaker, the Maputo Declaration demands that 10 per cent of the national budgets for African countries be allocated to the agriculture sector. However, these figures the hon. Minister has put constitute a 5.9 per cent allocation, which is not in concordance with the Maputo Declaration to which we appended our signature. We would also like the hon. Minister to critically look at that so that we can move forward instead of going backwards.

With these few words, Mr Speaker, I will debate more.

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizhya): Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to add my voice to this very important debate. Sir, I would not like to waste time, but go straight to what I think is important.

Sir, when the President addressed this House, on page 4 of his speech, he made a statement that reads:

    “Let us work together as a team to liberate the people who made us what we are.”

Mr Speaker, the people who made us what we are, today, are the people who are looking for the K5 billion allocation of the CDF. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyanda: This is the money that all of us in this House would use to construct health posts, dip tanks and schools. This is why we are asking for this money and not for taking home. It is for the people who made us what we are today, if I were to borrow the words of the President.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Tell them!

Mr Miyanda: My hope, in future, is that the hon. Minister of Finance will have a constituency.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyanda: In my opinion, I feel that people are not taking us seriously because some people do not have constituencies and, therefore, do not understand the pressure …

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mubukwanu: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mubukwanu: Mr Speaker, I rise on this point of order to seek your guidance on whether the hon. Member who is debating is in order to challenge the status of the hon. Minister of Finance when, in fact, each one of us, as Member of Parliament, enjoy equal privileges and rights. Is he in order, Sir? I need your ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: The simple and straightforward ruling is that he was attempting to challenge the authority or status of the hon. Minister of Finance. Therefore, he is out of order.

You may continue, please.

Mr Miyanda: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Before I was interrupted by the point of order, I was saying that this money is truly required.

Mr Livune: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, I wish to apologise to my brother who is debating so well. Is His Honour the Vice-President in order to keep quiet without informing this House that the Back Benchers who are quiet in this House, who are not raising points of order do not support this Government and that is why the hon. Deputy Ministers are frequently raising points of order in this House? I seek your ruling.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: May the hon. Member continue debating.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyanda: Mr Speaker, before I was interrupted, again, by the point of order, I was making a point that we all need this money whether we are in the Opposition or the PF Government because it is for our people.

Sir, the next point I would like to talk about is agriculture and I will go straight to talk about the FRA. We all are aware that the FRA is a wing of this Government and we cannot run away from that fact. Recently, this agency claimed that it had bought maize from farmers, and yet it had not done so, but instead, maize was just collected from the poor farmers. Moreover, all the maize has been moved from the satellite depots and we do not know where this maize is. In an event that these people from the FRA ran away, where are we going to find this maize?

Laughter

Mr Miyanda: Yet our farmers have not paid. Sir, this is the salary for a farmer in Mapatizhya.

Mr Sing’ombe: Dundumwezi!

Mr Miyanda: This is the only salary they receive in a year. Unfortunately, this Government is holding on to that money. Farmers need that money. For this reason, we demand that farmers be paid what is due to them.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyanda: Mr Speaker, the FRA, engaged some of our people as casual workers nationwide. These are people who cannot afford a single meal per day and are feeding on less than a United States dollar per day. The head office in Lusaka agreed to pay these people K2,800 per hour per day, from Monday to Saturday and that those willing to work on Sunday would receive twice this amount. Unfortunately, three weeks ago, when it was time for payment, our people, most of them widows, were told there was a memorandum from Lusaka, instructing that they would receive K100 per each 50kg. The question that begs an answer is: Where is the minimum wage when someone thought of putting the wage at K100 per 50kg bag contrary to what was agreed earlier on? We demand that …

Mr Hamududu: Bamvela nsoni!

Mr Miyanda: … these casual workers be paid nationwide.

Sir, in my opinion, I think that we are having all these problems because of a limited Budget. Last year, K300 billion was allocated to the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). Again, this year, K300 billion has been allocated. This implies that we are not making any progress in agriculture.

Since the Budget is now presented in October, I think, what this Government, through the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock, ought to do is announce the floor price for all the crops before farmers start planting. That way, farmers will decide whether or not to plant a particular crop knowing well what the prices for all the crops are. I think we should not have a situation where farmers are being told the floor price for their crops after harvesting. For instance, cotton farmers were told they can only sell at about K1,000 per kilogramme after harvesting. I think that was not fair to our farmers and it will never be fair anywhere in this world.

Mr Speaker, the next issue I would like to look at is livestock, which is still under agriculture. We are all boasting that we have almost 3.4 million head of cattle in this country but what we have is simply quantity and not quality.

Sir, this is what is missing in this country. We need quality and not quantity. Having said that, I think what this Government ought to do is import bulls as part of its animal re-stocking exercise. These bulls can be imported either from Namibia who, we are told, gave us a very good rate on livestock or we can import bulls from Botswana or South Africa.

Mr Speaker, if you go to the show grounds, today, you will find bulls which arrived three days ago from South Africa and they are being sold at K20 million to K32 million each. How many of our peasant farmers can afford to buy these bulls at such a price?

Sir, because we need quality animals, we are saying, as the Government restocks, let it get quality bulls. That way, we will have quality animals and, maybe, one day, we will be able to export beef to Europe, but not with the kind of animals we have at the moment. No one would want to buy the Zambian beef.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyanda: Mr Speaker, when the President addressed this House, he passionately talked about Kalomo and the precious minerals in that area. I think he meant Mapatizya where there is amethyst. This is just one area where not much has been done in terms of development.

Sir, the roads in this area are bad. As you drive to Mapatizya, all you see is a direction and not a road. It is just something that tells you that this is the route to Mapatizya and this is where you find this amethyst.

Mr Speaker, I was very disappointed when I looked at the Link Zambia 8,000 Road Network Project and found that Mapatizya Road was not among the roads earmarked for construction.

The people of Mapatizya need that road because when that is done, the Government will also benefit. I know that whatever is mined goes to the Central Government. So, our only demand is that that road should done.

Sir, I sat here listening to the speech by the hon. Minister of Finance, who was telling us that if you want to build a house, it will certainly cost you a lot of money. That was certainly not good news for the people of Mapatizya and the people of Zambia at large. I say so because when the President addressed this House, he told us that it was a shame that forty-eight years after Independence, we still have people living in grass-thatched huts. The way I understood the President’s statement is that those people who still live in grass-thatched houses are the ones who need to be liberated. Those people should stop living in those small grass-thatched houses. Why, then, do we have the hon. Minister of Finance, in his Budget, telling us to forget about iron sheets because the iron sheets will cost more? This is what I do not understand and why I insist that we should all be the same.

Mr Speaker, in the 2012 Budget, we were told that the Government would sink 3,000 boreholes. In this Budget, the Government has stated that it intends to sink 2,500 boreholes. Out of the 3,000 boreholes from last year’s Budget, they have not sunk any but, instead, the Government has added another 2,500, bringing the number to 5,500 boreholes. I am not seeing a miracle. Maybe, as they start, we might see one, but something is certainly missing. We need these boreholes because the people heard about the intention to sink boreholes and are eagerly waiting to see that this is done because they heard that the people of Mapatizya and those in Dundumwezi might be beneficiaries of these boreholes. The question is when is this going to be done?

Mr Speaker, there is a need for this project to be implemented. I do not know who, in particular, is not implementing this but, at the end of the day, people are saying the PF Government is failing. The people are also saying the PF has let them down. Maybe, you, the PF, have not let them down. Maybe, someone who needs to implement this has just not done his/her part.

Sir, in his address to this House, the President also made it clear that, through the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock, the Government would construct dip tanks and that the dipping of animals would be compulsory. I have not seen any dip tank constructed and neither have I seen any animals being dipped compulsorily.

Mr Speaker, with what is currently happening, we cannot, certainly, export any animals to Europe. Things are not in order and the Government needs to put them in order.

Sir, as the saying goes, water is life, but for the people of Mapatizya, water is death. Our people in Mapatizya are, probably, the only ones who are known to share water with pigs. This, also, applies to the people in Namwala, Dundumwezi and Tafelansoni. Our people still use the same water with animals and this is not good.

One of the millennium development goals (MDGs) aims at ensuring access to clean water by the year 2015, but I do not see this happening in the next two or three years because, right now, some of our people still do not have access to safe and clean water.

Mr Speaker, still on agriculture, we would like to request this Government to consider re-visiting its decision on the ban of movement of livestock from the Southern Province into the Lusaka markets. For five years, there has been no movement of livestock from one province to the other and we are not seeing the results of such a ban. No animal drugs have been sent to those areas, but the Government keeps saying the ban on the movement of cattle is still in force and that only carcasses can be transported.

Sir, recently, there was a meeting in Chisamba where some stakeholders proposed that Chisamba be declared a disease-free zone, but that was met with resistance. The resistance came from some of the stakeholders who are in the beef industry and fear that if Chisamba is declared a disease-free zone, they will not be able to withstand the competition in the industry.

Mr Speaker, the Government, through the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock, needs to give the farmers what they want 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

Mr Miyanda: Mr Speaker, in the last paragraph of page 4 of the President’s Speech, he said:

“The Southern and Western Provinces are supposed to be key in the supply of animals. Let us look for meat markets and find treatment for our animals. Our animals are just as important as human beings. I do not like to see animals dying. Let us revitalise all our dip tanks so that our animals are protected.”

I think that it is good that the President does not like to see our animals die and, therefore, he needs to appoint someone who will ensure that dip tanks are revitalised.

Mr Speaker, the last issue I would like to talk about is that of governance. We are all Zambians and we only have one country. Irrespective of which part of the country we come from, there will be only one Zambia for all us at the end of the day. Therefore, it is important that the police accord all of us the same opportunity and chance to meet and talk to our people. The way the situation is in this country, currently, one would think it is becoming an Animal Farm where some animals are more equal than others.

Interruptions

Mr Miyanda: Mr Speaker, I think that the PF Government will not be able to implement its programmes because there are people who are in the Civil Service that have decided to turn into politicians. I think some district commissioners and permanent secretaries who want to play politics are, actually, impeding development.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyanda: Mr Speaker, as I said, we only have one Zambia and we, therefore, want to live in harmony. The people on your right must, actually, demonstrate to us that as much as we understand that they control the men and women in uniform, they should tell them to relax the rules, especially the police. The Opposition should be allowed to meet our people anywhere and anytime in Zambia. We are not at war. Certainly, if we were at war, we would have all known that this is the case. We are here, peacefully, because we know that there is no war. Therefore, allow us to meet our people, please.

With these many words, I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to add a few words from the people of Dundumwezi to this debate on this Motion. I wish to state that this Budget is not inspiring for the people of Dundumwezi.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, it is not inspiring because the people of Dundumwezi have not, actually, seen any change in the preparation of the Budget. The previous Government never accorded hon. Members of Parliament a chance to contribute to the preparation of the Budget. Similarly, the PF Government has also come up with the Budget without involving hon. Members of Parliament so that they contribute to its preparation. When the President was here, during the Official Opening of Parliament, he said that hon. Members of Parliament are spokespersons of their constituencies. I wish to state that there was no single day when I was consulted by the PF Government on what the problems of my constituency were so that they are prioritised in this Budget.

Mr Speaker, what we have seen is the change in the occupants of public offices, but the rest remains the same or has become worse. The people of Dundumwezi are asking about the difference in this Budget from the previous ones if they cannot see anything in the Yellow Book on the construction of the Chikanta/Nkandazovu Road. Some of the people of Nkandazovu are those who left the Kariba Dam area in 1958 and they were promised that if they left that place, they would be given water, roads, education and health services where they were going to settle. I stand here to state that the people of Nkandazovu have not been given these things. This Yellow Book does not address the challenges facing the people in this area.

Mr Speaker, a month ago, Hon. Kazabu, the hon. Deputy Minister of Agriculture, went to my constituency and found that there was maize worth more than K3 billion that went to waste just at one satellite depot. What is the point of collecting maize worth more than K3 billion and then fail to transport even a single grain? I am afraid that this will happen, again, in the next marketing season because what made the PF Government fail to transport the maize was the bad state of our road infrastructure. As we speak, the Government has taken maize from farmers, but has not paid them. On the other hand, the issue of improving our road infrastructure has, also, not been addressed.

Mr Speaker, the people of Dundumwezi are shocked when they travel around this country, especially when they go to places such as the Copperbelt. They ask me why there are two tarred roads from Ndola to Kitwe when there is not even one graded road in Dundumwezi. They wonder where they are placed in this country. We are, now, told that we are budgeting for another dual carriageway from Kitwe to Chingola. It is things like this that make the people of Dundumwezi ask when the roads in their area will be worked on. This is why we are saying this Budget does not make any difference. It is not inspiring to me nor the people of Dundumwezi.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, we have asked the Executive, many times, in this House, when it is going to provide education and health infrastructure, but it seems to have been born from the same mother as with the previous Executive because its members say “when resources will be available” just like their predecessors. 

Last time, Mr Speaker, I stood here to ask the hon. Minister of Home Affairs when the Government would build a police post in Dundumwezi. Many people in my constituency have been killed by unknown people, but it was only when two police officers were killed that I saw this Government look for the two ng’angas responsible for their deaths. 

Mr Speaker, the House is also aware that I asked the hon. Minister of Home Affairs about a Mr Sibulyobulyo who was about to be killed. 

Laughter

Mr Sing’ombe: Three days after I stood on the Floor of the House, Mr Sibulyobulyo was shot dead. The PF Government does not want to listen to the complaints of hon. Members.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

I am listening attentively to the demise of Mr Sibulyobulyo. Please, allow me to continue doing so.

The hon. Member can continue.

Laughter

Mr Sing’ombe: Thank you very much, Sir. 

Questions are raised because they have to be brought to the attention of the Government. There are problems in the various constituencies and we expect issues that are raised to be addressed through the Budget. I have read through the Yellow Book and have not seen any allocation for the construction of a police post in my constituency. There has not been any change despite the MMD coming to the Opposition side and PF going to the Executive side. The people of Dundumwezi Constituency want development.

Mr Speaker, on the issue of agriculture, I would like to take the debate of Hon. Miyanda as my own. The Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock has continued borrowing resources from poor farmers, which I find to be a reversal of things. It is the farmers who should borrow resources from the Government to improve their livelihood. Farmers have sold their crops to the FRA, but have not been paid until now.

Sir, another issue that was raised was the issue of stopping unscrupulous businessmen diverting maize from various depots to unknown destinations. The hon. Minister seemed not to understand what I meant until a depot clerk was found to have misappropriated maize worth K1.9 billion. I want to inform him that the same thing is happening. It is the same people who are involved. They are PF cadres and nothing can be done about them. The people of Dundumwezi are seeing their maize being taken away to unknown destinations.

Mr Chisala: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, it was only last week when Mr Speaker guided this august House that we should not put hands in the pockets while debating because it is a sign of being preposterous and is scandalous.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Chisala: Is the hon. Member for Dundumwezi in order to put his hands in the pockets while debating when he knows that it is preposterous? 

Sir, I need your serious ruling.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson:  The serious ruling, though I did not see it happen, is that he is out of order.

The hon. Member can continue.

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, thank you very much for the guidance. 

This Government is being wasteful. The MMD Government never allowed what it bought to go to waste.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe: It tried, by all means, to transport maize from all the satellite depots to areas of safety. The maize that Hon. Kazabu saw was bought by the PF Government.

Mr Speaker, last year, a number of depot clerks transported maize to unknown destinations, and that is happening, again, this year. I am sure that the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock is aware that the Kasukwe Satellite Depot was closed prematurely because it was found that a man who was brought from an unknown place stole huge sums of money by writing receipts without maize actually being delivered. 

Sir, agriculture is very important, and the Government has to ensure that farmers are paid. If this is not done, there will be corruption in the payments by the FRA to the farmers. I would like to hear from any hon. Minister when they respond how they are going to manage to pay the farmers before 31st October, 2012, especially in Dundumwezi, where only a few have been paid. We have seven more days to go. Please, stop being wasteful. The PF Government is in charge and the people of Dundumwezi are yearning for the development of infrastructure such as roads. 

Sir, two months ago, one of the Executive hon. Members sneaked out of this House and went to Sichifulo where he met farmers whom the Government claims to have re-settled. I want to put it to him that he should have involved the stakeholders and hon. Members of Parliament. Currently, a good number of people have not managed to go back to Sichifulo because this Government has introduced a system whereby any person who wants to go back where he or she came from is asked to produce a card that is worth K500,000.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe: His Honour the Vice-President flew to Sichifulo and ignored that factor. People are still languishing because they have failed to produce the K500,000 to claim back their land. 

Mr Speaker, you are aware that, when the PF was on the left, together, we went to State House to persuade the then President to allow the people who were scattered all over to go back to Sichifulo. I was so shocked that, even after K4 billion was spent by the previous Government on that enquiry, the PF has not managed to resolve the problem. In case you are not aware, K4 billion was spent on that enquiry, and yet people are still suffering.  

Mr Speaker, we need water in Dundumwezi. Just last week, I was informed that the people of Nkandazovu were supposed to be given a dam, but was very shocked that the entire ministry went to Nkandazovu and failed to locate a place where a dam could be constructed. I asked myself how that was possible. The hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock failed to locate a place in Nkandazovu to construct a dam, and I wonder what kind of officers we have who can fail to locate a place for a dam in Nkandazovu. It is no wonder they are so good at internal human trafficking. They are getting hon. Members from the MMD to the right. 

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, we must search our books and see where we can ask them why they are doing that because, surely, they have failed and need help. I want to tell them that there are many brilliant people on the left who can help them to identify a place where they can construct a dam in Nkandazovu. It is for this reason that the ‘UPND Government’ demanded that the CDF to be increased …

Hon. Government Members: The UPND Government?

Mr Sing’ombe: The UPND Party.

Laughter

Mr Sing’ombe: The UPND Party is asking that the CDF be raised to K5 billion.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

I hope it was a slip of the tongue …

Mr Sing’ombe: Indeed, Mr Speaker.

The Deputy Chairperson: … because I heard you proclaiming another Government called the UPND.

Laughter

Hon. UPND Member: It is coming.

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, I meant the UPND Party. We are saying that the CDF should be raised. I want to echo the words of my brother who said that, sometimes, these are results of giving positions to people without constituencies. We had a similar situation under the MMD Government in which the hon. Minister of Finance had no constituency and, the time he was given a constituency, and was on the Back Bench, in that corner, he started crying for resources from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning.

Mr Speaker, with these very few words, I thank you.

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this very important debate. To start with, I would like to congratulate the hon. Minister of Finance for having presented the Budget in the fashion that he did. I was not surprised, knowing that it was the second time he was doing so.

Mr Speaker, I will center my debate on the issues I feel were not presented in the Budget, yet they were some of the most difficult issues to deal with towards elections in 2011. I feel that the people who trusted the current Government have not been given a fair deal. However, before I go in that direction, I want to say that I have been taken aback by some proclamations that the 2012 Budget was not a PF one. I thought that it was very well-presented by the hon. Minister of Finance with pride as a PF Budget. Unfortunately, it has come out that, actually, it was an MMD Budget. I said to myself that the people can have the last time to compare what the MMD could do and what the new Government can do. I will make some comparisons.

Mr Speaker, we gave the Zambian worker a K1,000,000 tax free threshold, which brought the threshold to K2,000,000. The present Budget has only given them K200,000.

Laughter

Hon. Government Member: Question!

Mr Simbao: I want people to understand that the MMD had intended to raise the threshold to K3 million this year …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: … because it had come to understand the problems as it was being told by our friends, the UPND and the PF.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Therefore, this year, we would have taken it to K3 million. The people have a raw deal by bringing in the PF Government which, in its first Budget, has only given them K200,000. What is a K200,000 today? If you look at all the commodities or even the food basket, everything has gone beyond K2 million. Therefore, anyone earning K2.2 million will not make it, at least, not here in town.

Mr Speaker, I feel that our 2012 Budget gave the people of Zambia a very good deal.

Mr Speaker, the 2012 Budget gave the workers of Zambia a 15 per cent salary increment, which has proved to be very bad, as we have seen in retrospect. Police officers even went to the extent of demonstrating. They walked to some office in Kitwe and said they would side with the Jerabos …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Simbao: … because the 15 per cent salary increment they were given was nothing. It cannot feed the people. Rightly so, the PF Government blamed it on us and we accepted that we are the ones who had given them a 15 per cent salary increment, which meant nothing. As for the 2013 Budget, I do not know what this Government has factored in for salary increment. I want it to understand that anything less than 100 per cent for the police will mean nothing.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: It will be zero, a mockery. The Government must know that any percentage less than doubling the people’s current salaries will not do any good for the workers of Zambia, especially the police, nurses and teachers. These people have demonstrated that these small incremental amounts we give them have never taken them anywhere.

They voted for this Government so that it could take them out of the quagmire we kept them in. Therefore, the only way this Government can prove that it has removed them from this quagmire is to give the workers in 2013, a salary increment which is not less than 100 per cent.

Mr Speaker, in 2012, we raised the CDF from K700 million to K1 billion. This was not enough and people still complained. We were very happy that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government was voted into power. They must prove what they can do for us. I do not know what they think we are, or what they think the people of Zambia are, by maintaining this K1 billion CDF this year. They need to show that they care for the people of Zambia. They have to change it by bringing a Budget that will provide a K5 billion worth CDF. We talked about it, and it is not a bad thing, especially for somebody who has a constituency in a rural area, like me. It is different for those who have constituencies in urban areas because they are helped by their councils and the companies that work there. In the rural area, the CDF is the only thing that I can use to help the people in the constituency. I am speaking for the many people who have rural constituencies, Senga Hill Constituency in particular. We will only appreciate it when the PF Government increases the CDF to K5 billion.

Mr Speaker, we used to be in Government and we were removed for some reasons that we failed to explain. One of the things which is missing in this Budget is a promise that the PF made, which created the perception that this Government would introduce an inclusive social security scheme. It was sung by all the kids. They were saying that they were all going to receive K250,000 whether they were working or not. This Government was going to pay everyone. It was so difficult for us to tell the people that that was not possible. Apparently, they were told that this scheme is there in the United Kingdom (UK), in Sweden and elsewhere and that the MMD was failing to provide this scheme because it had refused to introduce the windfall tax. That is what the PF said. This promise is still being held by the young people and those chaps who wash cars. They are wondering …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The word ‘chaps’ is unparliamentary.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I am sorry. The gentlemen are wondering. They should have been on the payroll by now because they do not work. They could have been getting a monthly allowance of K250,000. After, the Pay-As-You-Earn (PAYE) threshold was increased, that figure is supposed to be K500,000. This should have been for everyone who has no job. These promises were so difficult for us to dispel although we tried.  However, this promise has not been fulfilled in this Budget. What has happened to it? Why was it so good, then, but has been forgotten this time? It is important to remind the Government that it should not forget what it promised, and the youth should not forget what they were promised.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, the youth must request that these promises be fulfilled.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, another promise that was made, then, which is not in this Budget, is that feeding centres for the youths would be introduced where youths who have no work would go and have  lunch.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, this was so difficult …

Mr Kambwili: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Member of Parliament who is debating, and who is so bitter about having lost the elections, in order to mislead the people of Zambia that the PF promised to feed people at lunch time and that it said it was going to pay them K250,000 per month? Is he in order to mislead the nation with impunity, and without facts? If he has some facts, can he lay them on the Table. You have guided us before, that we must tell the truth and nothing but the truth. I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

You have debated your point of order. However, the rules of debate say that we must strive towards the truth. Therefore, the hon. Member should take that point of order into account as he strives to tell the truth. 

He may proceed.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I will leave that point. They never heard it, but we heard it. Do not worry …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Address the Speaker. Once a ruling has been made, you are not allowed to modify it. 

You may proceed.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I will leave it. The PF Government has promised to create 1,050,000 jobs and that is very good. However, in 2011, when we were about to hold elections, I said, in my debate, that there were more than five million people without employment. I hope that is a fact. I hope I am not saying something that is not a fact. The PF is promising to create 1,050,000 jobs. From 2011, we have had more than five million people without employment. What are these four million people going to do for the next four years? When we come to 2016, this number will increase. We will still have more than five million people on the streets without jobs. What does this Government think is going to happen to these people? If you want to argue, I have a book that has the figures I am talking about. Go and look at it. In Lusaka, there were 756,000 people who were looking for jobs. On the Copperbelt, 740,000 were looking for jobs. I said that the 1,050,000 jobs they are talking about would cater for these two provinces alone. What about the people in Senga Hill and the Northern Province? They will not see a single job. I said that these people will get you out of Government. They will become so frustrated and bitter at the end of the five years, that they will vote you out. 

They voted us out, not because we were not creating jobs because we were creating jobs. I remember that I made many roads in some people’s constituencies and people were employed. However, the problem is that the majority were still not employed. It is very important to note, and I am sure some of my friends have noted that running a government is not easy. Running a government means that people must be on their toes. This Government came in knowing that we had 5 million plus people without employment. It should have planned for these 5 million plus people during these five years instead of 1 million. To be fair, I am so doubtful if it will even create the 1 million jobs that it is talking about.

Mr Speaker, farm jobs are not jobs. They are labourer jobs. You cannot manage to sponsor anyone to school using money from such jobs. However, that is where the PF is targeting to employ 550,000 people. As regards contract jobs, these are lucky chance jobs. It is either you get it now or not.

Interruptions

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I am just talking about the facts on the ground. If they do not want to listen to me, that is ok. The …

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member debating in order to mislead the House that farm jobs are not jobs and you cannot manage to educate people from them? In my thirty-six years of being a farmer, the farm workers have been managing to take their children to school. Is he in order to say that the agriculture industry has no jobs at all?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Member debating was merely giving his opinion. His opinion was that farm jobs are not jobs. To the extent that it was just a mere opinion which may be correct or not, he is in order.

You may continue, please.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I am sorry if I have hurt anyone.

Sir, I would like to come to the issue of the 750 Euro bond …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, when I look at the macro-economic factors that we have been given, there is a 4.3 per cent deficit, part of which, if I am right, will be grants and the rest, we will borrow.

Sir, I do not understand why, when we have an opportunity to make money ourselves by re-introducing the windfall tax, as we have always said, we keep borrowing money. 

Mr Speaker, some of these people helping us with grants are so indebted. For example, when you look at the debt to the GDP ratio of Japan, it is 200 per cent. The same ratio for America is above 100 per cent. For the countries that are suffering such as Spain, it is above 100 per cent. 

Sir, we are accepting money from some of the countries which have very poor people, and I am not going to mention them. That is where we are happy to get grants from and yet we, as a country, can proudly make our own money, if only we can work well with the windfall tax.

Mr Speaker, no one can be proud to live on debt. We said it in this House that if we continue going into debt, we will soon end up in a situation where we will fail to pay …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: … and lose …

Mr Kambwili: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, twice on me!

Interruptions 

Hon. Opposition Members: No! It is not allowed.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

I take it the point of order is withdrawn because I was ready to make a ruling, but I wanted to allow the hon. Member to say what he wanted to say. Be that as it may, you may continue.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, as a citizen of Zambia, I am worried about the debts that we are contracting. I have a lot of trust and respect for the hon. Minister of Finance, but I am worried as a citizen of Zambia because I do not know how this US$7 billion debt was contracted. I was not there; I found it. Again, I can see this building up.

Sir, I would like to finally ask why there is nothing for Senga Hill Constituency in the Budget.

Mr Kambwili: It is ok.

Mr Simbao: Yes.

Mr Speaker, I asked His Honour the Vice-President when the Senga Hill people would be paid for the maize that the FRA took three months ago but, to date, they have not been paid. 

Mr Kambwili interjected.

Mr Simbao: Yes, they are listening. Senga Hill people, the PF is saying it is ok. I know that they have heard.

Interruptions

Hon. Government Members: There is no radio there!

Interruptions

Mr Simbao: They know what to do when the right time comes.

Mr Speaker, the last thing I would like to talk about is the problem of the Opposition being treated like non-Zambians. I was so confused when I went to a home of a former hon. Member of Parliament two weeks ago. He told me that when the MMD came into power, he was hounded out of Zambia by this particular gentleman who followed him everywhere he went until he found himself in London. 

Sir, this gentleman left the MMD and is now a very big person in the PF. I am sure that this person is the one who is behind what is happening to all of us in the Opposition. None of us is allowed to talk to any grouping of people. How can we be said to be Zambians?

I am not surprised. I am told that that is what the MMD did, and I felt very ashamed but, unfortunately, there is this one person who was in the MMD and is, now, in the PF. I am sure he is behind all what is happening to the Opposition. They should not be surprised.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

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The House adjourned at 1918 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 26th October, 2012.

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