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Wednesday, 3rd March, 2021
Wednesday, 3rd March, 2021
The House met at 1430 hours
[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]
NATIONAL ANTHEM
PRAYER
_______
RULING BY MR SPEAKER
POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY HON. T. S. NGULUBE, DEPUTY GOVERNMENT CHIEF WHIP AND MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR KABWE CENTRAL PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY, AGAINST MR C. D. MIYANDA, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR MAPATIZYA PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY, ON WHETHER HE WAS IN ORDER TO STATE THAT THE PRESIDENT SHOULD LEAD BY EXAMPLE ON ALCOHOL IN LIGHT OF MR SPEAKER’S GUIDANCE TO THE EFFECT THAT MEMBERS’ DEBATES MUST BE RELEVANT TO THE MOTION BEFORE THE HOUSE
Mr Speaker: Hon. Members will recall that on Friday, 19th February, 2021, when the House was considering the Motion of Thanks on the President’s Address on the Progress Made in the Application of National Values and Principles and Mr C. D. Miyanda, Member of Parliament for Mapatizya Parliamentary Constituency was on the Floor, Hon. T. S. Ngulube, Deputy Government Chief Whip and Member of Parliament for Kabwe Central, raised the following point of order:
“Mr Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to rise on this very important point of order. Mr Speaker, you have already guided this House, and I think we all know that relevance is one of the pillar stones of debates in this House. When the hon. Member debating says that the Head of State must lead by example, especially on alcohol, is he referring to the President’s Speech or is he still going back to the same thing that you have already guided us on?
I seek your serious ruling.”
In my immediate response to the point of order, I indicated that I was constrained to rule on the point of order until I had sight of the verbatim record. I have since perused the record on the matters relevant to the point of order, and now render my ruling.
Hon. Members, having contextualised the point of order, I wish to apprise the House that the point of order raises the issue of an hon. Member debating the persona of the Head of State. The National Assembly Members’ Handbook, 2006, is instructive on the matter. In this regard, paragraphs 24(d) and (e) of Chapter Five, entitled Conduct of Members of Parliament and Parliamentary Etiquette, provides that:
“24. While on the Floor of the House, Members should not:
- reflect upon the conduct of persons in high authority i.e. the Head of State or the Chair unless the discussion is based on a substantive motion drawn on proper terms; and
- use the name of the Head of State for the purpose of influencing debate.”
Hon. Members, the import of this provision is that hon. Members are barred from bringing in their debate, the persona of the President. That is, hon. Members are proscribed from making reflections on the conduct of the President or other persons in high authority as spelt out, unless the discussion is based on a substantive Motion drawn on proper terms.
Therefore, Mr Miyanda, MP, was out of order when he made reference to the Head of State, in the manner he did. By so doing, he fell foul of paragraphs 24(d) and (e) of Chapter Five of the Members’ Handbook.
I thank you.
_______
MOTION
REPORT OF THE PARLIAMENTARY SELECT COMMITTEE APPOINTED TO SCRUTINISE THE PRESIDENTIAL APPOINTMENT OF HON. MADAM JUSTICE FULGENCY MWENYA CHISANGA, TO SERVE AS A JUDGE OF THE SUPREME COURT, HON. MADAM JUSTICE JUDY ZULU MULONGOTI, HON. MR JUSTICE MWILA CHITABO, SC, AND HON. MR JUSTICE MATHEW KASONDE CHISUNKA, TO SERVE AS JUDGES OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL COURT AND HON. MADAM JUSTICE ANESSIE MICHAEL BANDA-BOBO, HON. MADAM JUSTICE NICOLA ANN SHARPE-PHIRI AND MR KELVIN MUZENGA TO SERVE AS JUDGES OF THE COURT OF APPEAL
Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Parliamentary Select Committee appointed to scrutinise the Presidential appointment of Hon. Madam Justice Fulgency Mwenya Chisanga to serve as a Judge of the Supreme Court, Hon. Madam Justice Judy Zulu Mulongoti, Hon. Mr Justice Mwila Chitabo, SC, and Hon. Mr Justice Mathew Kasonde Chisunka, to serve as judges of the Constitutional Court and Hon. Madam Justice Anessie Michael Banda-Bobo, Hon. Madam Justice Nicola Ann Sharpe-Phiri and Mr Kelvin Muzenga to serve as judges of the Court of Appeal, for the Fifth Session of the Twelfth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on Tuesday, 2nd March, 2021.
Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?
Mrs Mulyata (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, the appointments are made pursuant to Article 140(e) of the Constitution of Zambia, Chapter 1 of the Laws of Zambia, which states as follows:
“The President shall on the recommendation of the Judicial Service Commission and subject to ratification by the National Assembly appoint the other Judges.”
Mr Speaker, the Judiciary pays a pivotal role in ensuring good governance. This is because it is not only the guardian of the Constitution, but also the protector of the people’s fundamental rights. An independent Judiciary is, therefore, central to our democracy and a preservation of public confidence in the rule of law. At the apex of the Judiciary, the superior courts to these appointments are being made. In view of this, the Committee resolves that only competent persons with unquestionable integrity, intelligence, eminence, sound character and above all, committed to the promotion of the rule of law, should be appointed as Supreme Court, Constitutional Court and Court of Appeal judges. In this regard, the Committee requested memoranda from relevant state security agencies, professional bodies and other stakeholders and the appointing authority. The witnesses who also appeared before the Committee assisted it to assess the suitability of the nominees to serve in the positions they were appointed.
Sir, the Committee notes with satisfaction that all the state security agencies indicated that there were no adverse security against any of the nominees. Additionally, the other stakeholders, generally submitted that all the nominees were suitably qualified and possessed requisite experience to be appointed as judges of the courts which they have been appointed to.
Mr Speaker, after its interactions with the nominees, the Committee notes with satisfaction that all the nominees possess the requisite competence and experience to serve in the offices they have been appointed to.
Sir, the Committee notes that Article 259 of the Constitution requires a person who is making an appointment to a public office to, where possible, ensure representation of the youths and persons with disabilities and 50 per cent of the each gender. The Committee observes that of the seven nominees, four are female and three are male. Therefore, the Committee commends the appointing authority for taking positive steps towards achieving gender parity in the Judiciary. The Committee observes that some witnesses expressed concern about the appointment of Mr Kelvin Muzenga who was appointed from outside the Judiciary. However, the Committees notes that the Constitution does not restrict the appointment of judges to those serving on the bench and that Mr Muzenga is eminently qualified for the appointment.
Mr Speaker, after due and thorough consideration, analysis and evaluation of the written and oral submissions presented to it by the witnesses and the interviews with the nominees, the Committee is of the view that all the nominees are suitably qualified and posses the requisite competences to serve as judges of the Supreme Court, Constitutional Court, and the Court of Appeal, respectively. In view of this, the Committee recommends that this august House ratifies the appointment.
Sir, finally, members of the Committee wish to place on record, their gratitude to you, for appointing them to serve on this select Committee. The Committee is also thankful for the services and advice rendered to it by the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly during its deliberations. The Committee further wishes to thank the state security and investigating agencies, professional bodies, and other stakeholder institutions for their oral and written submissions which assisted the Committee in making an informed recommendation to the House.
Mr Speaker, it is now my pleasure to call upon the House to ratify the appointments before it.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?
Ms Mulyata: Now, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you most sincerely, for according me this opportunity to second this Motion. I also thank the mover for competently moving the Motion. The mover has adequately highlighted most the notable points upon which your Committee supports the ratification of Hon. Madam Justice Fulgency Mwenya Chisanga to serve as a Judge of the Supreme Court, Hon. Madam Justice Judy Zulu Mulongoti, Hon. Mr Justice Mwila Chitabo, SC, and Hon. Mr Justice Mathew Kasonde Chisunka, to serve as judges of the Constitutional Court and Hon. Madam Justice Anessie Michael Banda-Bobo, Hon. Madam Justice Nicola Ann Sharpe-Phiri and Mr Kelvin Muzenga, to serve as Judges of the Court of Appeal.
Sir, in seconding the Motion, I wish to reiterate your Committee’s observation that all the nominees possess the requisite competence and experience to serve as Judges of the Supreme Court, the Constitutional Court and the Court of Appeal, respectively.
Mr Speaker, your Committee wishes to commend the appointing authority for ensuring that only persons who met the constitutional qualifications are appointed for ratification.
Sir, as I conclude, allow me to extend my gratitude to the Chairperson of your Committee for the adept, impartial and just manner in which he presided over the meetings and deliberations of your Committee. May I also extend my sincere gratitude to all the hon. Members of your Committee for their objectivity, professionalism and unity of purpose during your Committee’s deliberations.
Mr Speaker, with those few remarks, I beg to second the Motion.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Ngulube (Kabwe Central): Mr Speaker, thank you for this opportunity to support the ratification of these Judges. Allow me to just address a few concerns that have come to my mind by virtue of my experience as a practicing lawyer.
Mr Speaker, I have noticed that almost all the judges are being promoted, which is a very good thing that we have seen in the Judiciary under the leadership of His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, because he wants to promote people based on merit. However, we normally see that once Judges are promoted either from the High Court to the Court of Appeal, then, they stop whatever they were doing in the High Court. They abandon justice. As a result, those Judges who have rulings to render and judgments to deliver, will forget about everything. We have seen some Judges who were appointed and promoted two or three years ago not having delivered their judgments in the High Court and the Court of Appeal. So, I would like to urge these Judges and the Magistrates who were promoted yesterday to ensure that they clear their tables.
Mr Speaker, justice is about decision making. If we have Judges who can abandon their work just because they have been promoted and are now sitting on a higher Bench, then, we are losing it, and I think the motivation to promote people will be lost.
Mr Speaker, I am also aware that most of the times when we have promotions of this nature, we must give those Judges some time to clear their backlogs because the Judiciary has a huge backlog. Most of the backlog is caused either because Judges were transferred from one station to another station or they were promoted or moved. So, speaking on behalf of other lawyers and litigants, I hope and trust that this group of Judges who are being promoted today will do the right thing and they must ensure that they do the work that has to be done at the High Court or the Court of Appeal or wherever. They must clear their tables and ensure that when they take up their new roles, we do not have the burden of knocking on their doors everyday to find out when they are going to give us our rulings.
Mr Speaker, in conclusion, allow me to take this opportunity to urge the Chief Justice and the Judicial Service Commission to find time to scrutinise some of the sitting Judges and those whom we feel might be promoted one day. The issue of the backlog of cases in the Judiciary has become a thorn in the fresh. We have judgments that have been pending in some instances for seven years. In view of the Coronavirus Disease-2019 (COVID-19), Judges now work on rotational basis. In some cases, the people have lost hope. They do not know when the Judges’ decisions will be delivered.
Mr Speaker, now that the COVID-19 pandemic has brought us a new normal situation in the Judiciary, I hope and trust that Her Ladyship, the Chief Justice, and the Judicial Service Commission will take it upon themselves to screen and find out the Judges who are failing to deliver judgments or to give the people their decisions in more than enough time. What is the resolution or solution to this? What will happen to the Judges who were transferred from Lusaka to other places and left cases which were hanging? They did not clear the cases and some cases were transferred to other Judges, but nothing has happened. I hope and trust that this opportunity will create another opportunity for us to help clear the backlog of the cases that are hanging right now in the Judiciary.
Mr Speaker, I hope I have not committed any contempt. I beg to move and I support the Motion.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker: I am sure you are saying that on a light note.
Laughter
Mr Speaker: The proceedings for Parliament are immunised.
We will proceed in this fashion. We will have the hon. Minister for Eastern Province, who will be followed by the hon. Member for Mongu Central. Thereafter, the hon. Minister for Home Affairs and the hon. Minister of Justice will conclude this debate.
The Minister for Eastern Province (Mr M. Zulu): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for according me this opportunity to support this Motion on the appointment of Madam Justice Fulgency Mwenya Chisanga, Judge Judy Zulu Mulongoti, Mr Justice Mwila Chitabo, Mr Justice Mathew Kasonde Chisunka, Madam Justice Anessie Michael Banda-Bobo, Judge Nicola Ann Sharpe-Phiri and Mr Kelvin Muzenga. Allow me to state from the outset that most of these Judges appointed – (inaudible)
Mr Speaker, you will agree with me that Judge Fulgency Mwenya Chisanga stands out as one of those Judges whose judgments you cannot easily question. You would really have to read as much as you can, if at all you are to appeal her judgments because they have content. Having been part of the committee that was editing the laws that made it to the Zambia Law Reports, I am certain that the experience that she has and the work that she has carried out in between speaks for her in the sense of the content of the judgments and the reasoning behind those judgments. I have appeared before her before in my practice and, obviously, I am a testimony as to how hardworking she is. If she tells you the matter is going to come at 0900 hours, it would be at 0900 hours. If a judgment will be delivered on a particular day, it will be delivered on that particular day, and the soundness of the reasoning is next to none. I, therefore, support her appointment to be Judge of the Supreme Court as she has earned it all the way from the High Court through to the Court of Appeal and now, to the Supreme Court.
Mr Speaker, as regards Madam Justice Judy Zulu Mulungoti, who was my boss at the Ministry of Justice and whose work was about excellence, I believe that she has been able to discharge her work with excellence even in her capacity as Judge, from the High Court to the Court of Appeal and now, to the Constitutional Court. She has been splendid and I believe that she will be able to carry out her work with excellence as she has always demanded that work should be done with excellence.
Mr Speaker, as regards Judge Mwila Chitabo, a Judge I have known for a very long time and with whom I shared a class in my pursuit for a Masters Degree in Constitutional and Administrative Law, I believe he is suitably qualified to hold that position as Judge of the Constitutional Court. I believe that he will add that soundness of judgment to those who are already in the Constitutional Court. I believe that his addition to the Constitutional Court is going to bring in much more of that flavour of diversity in reasoning and being able to express what the legal terms or issues are in constitutional matters because of the way he comes out or explains issues of human rights, issues to do with the Constitution and many judgments that have made it to the law reports which he has been able to deliver and the soundness of those judgments.
Mr Speaker, as regards Judge Bobo Banda, I have known her from the time she was at the Patents and Companies Registration Agency (PACRA) until she became a Judge. The soundness of her reasoning is next to none. The judgments that she has been able to pass are difficult to appeal against. I certainly support her appointment to sit in a higher court.
Mr Speaker, Judge Nicola Ann Sharpe-Phiri is a very astute Judge. She is a Judge who, to my knowledge, has never disappointed when it comes to the issue of delivery and dealing with judgments on time. I do not think she may be classified as one of those who you would say would leave a backlog. She has always been on top of her game in terms of judgments.
Mr Speaker, as regards my colleague, Kelvin Muzenga, who is now a Judge, I believe he will add much more flavour to the Court of Appeal because of the vast experience he has had in the legal aid and with whom I had an opportunity to work with. I believe he will bring that flavour in defence as well as prosecution of matters in the Court of Appeal. I have run out of time, but I support those who have been suggested for ratification.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker: Very well.
I am advised that the hon. Member for Mongu Central will debate the President’s Speech and not the Motion under discussion. I, therefore, proceed to invite the hon. Minister of Home Affairs.
The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for allowing me to add my voice in support of the Motion ably moved by Hon. Simbao, who was the Chairperson of the Select Committee.
Mr Speaker, in the hon. Minister of Justice’s submission and when he was supporting the nominees, he added that the appointment of these adjudicators will add to the number of Judges who are serving in the three higher courts and that will ensure adequate dispensation of justice. My colleague, the hon. Minister of Eastern Province, has adequately described each one of the nominees, and their experiences and capacities.
Mr Speaker, indeed, in agreeing with the hon. Minister of Justice, us, at the Ministry of Home Affairs who are responsible for correctional service facilities where we keep many citizens awaiting for matters to be heard in the courts, feel for our people when these matters are not adjudicated upon expeditiously. Therefore, we are very grateful that the number of Judges, which is now 105, will be helpful in ensuring that justice is dispersed to our people, timely.
Mr Speaker, your Committee has described all these eminent citizens as impeccable adjudicators, impartial and resolute. Therefore, we expect that they will live up to our expectations and that of the Zambians out there. I would like to advice the Judges who are going to the Constitutional Court and I know that Hon. Mwila Chitambo, SC, is among them, and he is equally a gallant son of this country, with experience, and is resolute and of strong character.
Mr Speaker, the Judges are going to the Constitutional Court in this very interesting year when we shall have general elections and some disputes might end up in the Constitutional Court. Yes, elections come with a lot of political pressure. We would like the Judges to stand firm and ensure that they adjudicate on matters fairly without fear or favour. They should never again allow a situation where politicians should go and dance in the court chambers, undress them and call them names that are not suitable and get away without punishment. The Judges should make sure that the people appear before them as law abiding citizens.
Mr Speaker, elections are determined by the people of Zambia and disputes must be settled amicably. So, we expect the Judges to be firm and decisive when making pronouncements on the matters that are brought before them. We would not want to see what happened in the past where some citizens thought they were called all sorts of names because of their status.
Mr Speaker, with those few remarks, I wish these eminent persons all the best as they serve the nation and their fellow citizens.
I thank you, Sir.
The Minister of Justice (Mr Lubinda): Mr Speaker, I would like to make a few comments in commending your Committee for the thorough manner in which it scrutinised the nominees to be appointed to the various superior courts.
Sir, I am delighted to note that the Committee and Parliament, generally, have so far accepted the fact that the nominees are suitably qualified to be appointed to the various courts. Of note is that after these nominations have been notified by Parliament, superior courts will now have eighty-nine Judges out of the establishment of 105. This is no mean achievement. In the next few years, the Government of President Edgar Chagwa Lungu would like to have 105 Judges of the superior courts as is provided in the Number of Judges Act No. 9 of 2016. I will come to this matter a little later. However, the second matter which I would like to reflect upon is, gender representation.
Mr Speaker, of the three wings of the Government and being a member of two of them, the Executive and Legislature, I think that the two wings ought to congratulate the third wing of the Government, the Judicator. Ever since 2016, they have been maintaining equity in gender representation. As a matter of fact, maybe we shall soon hear a reverse of women participation in the Judiciary. It will now be the men who will be calling for equality because ever since 2016, there have been more women on the Bench than the men folk.
After these nominees have been ratified, the whole Judiciary in the Superior Courts shall have 52 per cent women as opposed to 48 per cent. However, this is not only a demonstration of the gender openness of the Judicial Service Commission but also, a reflection on the appointing authority. The appointing authority has been very careful in ensuring that we maintain equity at gender in the Superior Courts and the court, generally.
Mr Speaker, I spoke about having ninety-two Judges, and not eighty-nine as I earlier mentioned, out of 105 Judges who represents a number of 89 per cent. The reason I refer to this is because the judicature in Zambia ought to be commended tremendously. It should be commended for the amount of work that it has executed over the years, particularly, ever since the Patriotic Front (PF) formed Government. Hitherto, we come to Parliament and we hear hon. Members of Parliament lamenting over the number of backlog cases. However, this has improved tremendously. For example, at the end of 2016, there were 10,077 pending cases. Between 2016 and 2019, 38,311 cases were filed in the Superior Courts. If we add this to the 10,000 cases that were pending at the start of 2017, that brought the number of active cases to about 48,000. By the end of 2019, the judicature of Zambia managed to dispense off all the cases except 8,900 cases. This means that they had dispensed off about 40,000 cases. This is unprecedented.
Sir, with the increase in the number of Judges, one also expects that the dispensation of justice would be enhanced. However, for that to happen, I have to speak on behalf of the Judiciary because they do not have the opportunity to speak on their own behalf, neither here nor outside there. Unfortunately, they only have the humble me to speak on their behalf. In speaking on their behalf, I have to indicate that the next time that we consider the allocations to the Judiciary, we ought to bear in mind that after we have ratified these nominees including those who I presented yesterday through your Committee, we would have created a bigger challenge for the learned men and women on the bench. It is a challenge in the form of infrastructure. Now, the Judges are crammed in Chambers. Sometimes, they have to pave way for each other to hear matters in Chambers. Some of them do not even have access to Chambers for weeks on end.
Mr Speaker, there is also the issue of court room spaces. There are not enough court room spaces for the Judges. Obviously, all of us in Parliament, on behalf of the people we represent, we would like to see that these Judges execute their functions expeditiously. It also falls back on us in Parliament and in the executive. I, therefore, want to assure the House that His Excellency the President has already demonstrated his desire to ensure that there is quick dispensation of justice.
Sir, over the last five years that he has been superintending over the affairs of the state, we have seen how he has invested in housing and office infrastructure for the defence and security wings of the state. I am sure that every Zambian who is well-meaning will salute him for that. For the coming five years after the August 2021 elections which, as far as the people of Kabwata whom I represent are concerned, we will usher him in to continue his work. His focus will shift to the judicature to make sure that our vision of having High Court presence in every provincial headquarters is achieved. This will ensure that we cut down on the cost of court-circuiting because that also brings in a drain on the resources that are made available to the judiciary.
Sir, let me commend a little bit on what my colleague, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs spoke about, where he was reminding these eminent Judges, particularly, at the Constitutional Court (CONCOURT) that they must stand tall when they are passing their judgements. In agreeing with him, I would like to just call upon the society that those Judges sit in very lonely positions. We run to them because we repose our confidence in their arbitral authority and in their fairness of judgement. It is incumbent upon us to go to them with clean hands and a pure heart so that after they have handed down their judgment, and if we will differ with it, we should criticise it. We should never go to the persona of the Judges because that demeans the stature of the very institution that we run to when we are in conflict to arbitrate.
Mr Speaker, I would, therefore, like to urge, especially politicians that they may play ping-pong with fellow politicians but they should never dare to play ping-pong with the Judiciary. They may dare call each others’ names as politicians but they should not bring in those men and women whom we entrust this huge enormous task of being neutral arbiters when we have conflict. In countries where there has been conflict, it is precisely because the judicature has been thrown asunder. We should not dare to go that way.
Sir, the people whom we are ratifying today, are being clothed with the position of responsibility where, unfortunately, even appearing in public is a matter that they guard themselves against because they always want to remain neutral. When we were debating the issue of the dress code for Judges and Mr Speaker, this is the reason some people were of the view that they should continue to be in those wigs so that they attain this non-persona appearance to the people whom they are adjudicating matters on behalf of. We want to create that rapport with the judiciary.
Mr Speaker, with this, I would like to end by thanking you and your Committee for these beautiful recommendations.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I want to thank the three hon. Members who have contributed to this debate. I appreciate the insight and advice which they have given. I also want to thank the Vice-Chairperson and everyone else who has participated in silence.
I thank you, Sir.
Question put and agreed to.
__________
MOTION OF THANKS
(Debate resumed)
Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, we are winding down this debate this afternoon and we will proceed in the following fashion. I will begin with the hon. Member for Mongu Central, who will be followed by the hon. Minister of Justice, the hon. Minister of National Guidance and Religious Affairs, Her Honour the Vice-President, and of course, the hon. Member for Chilanga will wind-up the debate.
Dr Imakando (Mongu Central): Mr Speaker, let me start by agreeing with the President that we are all duty bound to work for the good of the country. Yes, indeed, we are duty bound but what is the Patriotic Front (PF) Government doing? The PF Government is going to plunge Zambia into unsustainable debt, fail to create jobs and business opportunity in the country, fail to tackle corruption, show no tolerance to opposing views, wide-open discrimination in appointments and employment of public servants, and regional discrimination in voter registration. Is this what you call working for the good of the country? No!
Mr Speaker, this is why I do not agree with the President when he said that one way of showing patriotism is to respect our national symbols. Our national symbols tell of our history, which we are and our endowment. The only way to show patriotism is to respect the rule of law, uphold the Constitution, as well as respect institutions created under the Constitution. Equality before the law is true patriotism.
Mr Speaker, today citizens do not know whether the current President can stand for elections again, having served under two different Constitutions. Is this the rule of law? Is this patriotism?
Mr Speaker, last but one Paragraph of the President’s speech is No. 173, which reads as follows:
“173. This patriotic front Government cares for all Zambians, regardless of who you are, where you are, or whom you voted for.”
Mr Speaker, the manner in which the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) conducted the registration exercise of voters under the PF Government in Southern Province, Western Province and North-Western Province does not resonate with the words of the President which I have just quoted. The management and resource allocation towards voter registration exercise in these regions did not take into account, our national values. There was no consideration of morality and ethics, patriotism and national unity, democracy and constitutionalism, human dignity and social justice, equity and non-discrimination. There was no consideration of good governance at all.
Mr Speaker, compared with the 2016 voter register, Western Province is down by over 50,000 votes, while Luapula Province is up by over 50,000 votes, Eastern Province is up by a colossal sum of 120,000 voter while Southern Province is down by 32,000 voters. You may wish to know that while Muchinga has gone up by 35,000 voters, and North-Western Province has only gone up by paltry 967 voters.
Mr Speaker, the voter registration pattern is very clear. The North/Eastern region of Zambia has increased voters by over 200,000 while Southern/Western region has gone down by 83,000 voters, giving a net increase of over 283,000 voters in favour of North/Eastern region of Zambia. The 2021 voters register already favours a presidential candidate of one party and disadvantages the other.
Mr Speaker, the 2021 Voter Register should accommodate the under registered voters in the under registered regions. If unattended to, this problem could plunge Zambia into bad governance and political instability.
Mr Speaker, the 2021 Voter Register has not only disenfranchised many voters in the Southern and the Western regions of Zambia, but has also narrowed changes of any presidential candidate from this region.
Mr Speaker, statistics do not lie. The population growth figures for Zambia do not support the huge growth in voters, only in selected regions of Zambia –
Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for allowing me to raise this very important point of order.
Mr Speaker, I am following the debate by the hon. Member on the Floor. I was patiently waiting to hear him refer to the speech which was presented by His Excellency the President. Unfortunately, he opted to go into some form of regional debate.
Mr Speaker, for anyone to rule this country and assume the office of presidency, the person must have support from all the ten provinces and the whole country, Zambia, to garner the necessary votes. Now, we are saying that it is fifty plus one. Certainly, you cannot attain fifty plus one by counting on three regions.
Mr Speaker, the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) conducted a national registration exercise with an equal number of days for all regions. Her Honour the Vice-President has been to this august House, updating the nation. Equally, ECZ has updated the nation by giving out the numbers, and now that they have cleaned the register ...
Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, please get to the point of order.
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, the point of order, is –
Mr Nkombo interjected.
Mr Kampyongo: It is allowed to concede defeat in advance.
Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member in order to debate in a manner that is divisive to the nation by insinuating that the ECZ was selective in registering would-be voters for this upcoming General Election. Is he in order to insinuate that the three provinces he mentioned have been disadvantaged and by further saying that one candidate is already advantaged when he does not know, in his speech, which candidates are going to stand for presidency?
Mr Speaker, I seek your serious ruling because we are one Zambia, one nation, and for anyone to be President, they must garner support...
Ms Tambatamba interjected.
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I can hear the hecklers.
Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, I suppose you have made your point of order and I have followed it.
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.
Mr Speaker: There are two points I want to make, and I have made them before, at least the first one, in fact both of them.
Firstly, I would say that whenever we are debating, let us focus on the Motion, and in this case, the content of the address by His Excellency the President. Secondly, I have said it recently that it is not the function of the presiding officers to censor opinions unless there are factual misrepresentations about any subject matter because the rules of debate do not permit us to make misrepresentations. In other words, we must be factual in our debates.
That is my ruling.
Hon. Member for Mongu Central, you may continue with your debate, bearing in mind my ruling.
Dr Imakando: Mr Speaker, I was speaking on the basis of what the President said, when he said that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government cares for all Zambians, regardless of who you are, where you are or whom you voted for.
Mr Speaker –
Mr Speaker: Order!
The hon. Member’s time expired.
Mr Speaker: Order!
I would like to apologise to the hon. Member for Gwembe because, according to the record, she debated last. I should have pointed this out at the commencement of the resumption of debate. I will, therefore, allow her to continue with her debate.
Ms Chisangano (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, good governance is very important for the benefit of all Zambians. Why should there be discrimination in the allocation of resources, among the citizens of Zambia? We need a Government that will take care and even protect all the citizens of this country. Regarding the Honeybee Pharmacy scandal, Zambians felt not to have been protected.
Sir, finally, years back, Zambia was rated as one of the most peaceful countries in Africa, but what is the situation now? There is political violence every day, especially where there are by-elections and during general elections. We have seen citizens being killed or even being beaten by political cadres. Where are we heading to? Is that going to occur even in the coming general elections that will take place in August?
Mr Speaker, Zambia needs a serious Government that will protect and serve the people of this nation. However, not all hope is lost, as we are looking forward to the elections on 12th August, 2021. We know that we are going to elect a President who is going to protect and take the interest of all Zambians at heart, and that man is no one, but Mr Hakainde Hichilema.
I thank you, Sir.
The Minister of Justice (Mr Lubinda): Sir, I am very grateful for allowing me to contribute to this very important debate as it winds down.
Mr Speaker, let me focus on a few matters, and one of them is His Excellency the President’s call for the peaceful conduct of elections. This is a call to his Government and also to every citizen of the country. Peace cannot elude a country, if all its citizens conduct their affairs peacefully. It is not the Executive that can take away peace; it is the citizens and how they conduct themselves. The Executive’s role is just to ensure that the environment is one that curtails anyone who wishes to breach the presence of peace. It is, therefore, incumbent upon everyone, especially those of us who are bestowed with this huge responsibility of being here in Parliament, by the 18 million citizens, and to preach peace, starting from here. If we, here in Parliament, sow seeds of discord, we should not expect our citizens to behave any better than the trajectory on which we put them.
Sir, when His Excellency the President said that we were going to conduct elections in a peaceful environment, he did not realise that there would be, amongst us, some people who would take it upon themselves to start regionalising the country. They put the parts of the country together and said that the regions registered a high number of voters than other regions, and because of this, the elections shall be rigged, as though suggesting that when the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) was registering voters, it said that here, it only wanted to register so many and there, it wanted to register this many, yet it opened registration to every citizen and people volunteered to go and register.
Mr Speaker, in case people have forgotten, we do not have any law in this country that criminalises a person for failure to register as a voter. It is purely a voluntary matter. However, what would you be implying by coming to Parliament to say that certain regions had few registered voters and, therefore, the elections are bound to be rigged? You are implying that those areas that you are speaking about as having registered less people are opposed to the ruling party. His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu’s message is that we, who want peace to be sustained in this country, must go especially to those regions where some people are saying that they are not for the ruling party. That is where we want to go and campaign because that is where we want to breed peace so that people are not made and swayed to think that there was any manipulation in the registration of voters.
Sir, I am also particularly worried that in a run-up to an election, we hear statements such as the ones we heard in a country that has been referred to by many, as the mother of democracy. We heard that unless I win, these elections have been rigged. Even before the first ballot is cast, you have already declared yourself a winner. Such statements are the ones that breed discontent and attack the existence of peace. I implore all politicians that you cannot read the minds of the people before they say what is in their minds. You can, therefore, not count the votes before they are cast. Be as magnanimous as President Edgar Chagwa Lungu, who has constantly said that he will go and appeal to the Zambian people for their confidence in him so that they may elect him, unlike going around, posturing as though you already had a meeting with all the electorates and they assured you that they will give you a vote.
Sir, it is a threat to peace when people say that they have already drafted a petition and that they are going to petition Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu when he files his nomination. As you are aware, any person who has a real case to present before the judicature will not go announcing that he is going to court tomorrow, especially an election. What he/she will do is to hold it close to his/her chest and go and file it when it matters the most. The reason we are hearing all this is because some people are trying to create an environment of suspicion in the country so that when President Edgar Lungu is declared the winner, they will say that after all we told you. That is a threat to peace.
Mr Speaker, I implore all of us, especially Parliamentarians as we bid farewell to this House, to go out there and preach peace and be willing to lose.
Mr Speaker: Order!
The hon. Minister’s time expired.
The Minister of National Guidance and Religious Affairs (Rev. Sumaili): Mr Speaker, I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the address to this august House by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Dr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, on the progress made in the application of national values and principles.
Sir, allow me to congratulate the President, not only for a solid message of progress on the actualisation of the national values and principles, but also for providing leadership and demonstrating commitment to anchoring our nation on national values and principles, which are our compass, and speak to the spirit and soul of our nation. The responsibility to achieve realisation of the national values and principles belongs to all the citizens of this blessed nation. This is why the Ministry of National Guidance and Religious Affairs is engaging stakeholders in a multi-sectoral manner starting with the family, community, civil society organisations, traditional leaders, Church, and other Government ministries and institutions.
Mr Speaker, the national values and principles have been incorporated in the education syllabus, starting from early childhood education to university and in the tertiary institutions under the Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training Authority (TEVETA). The national values and principles have also been extensively built into the syllabus of the National School of Government to ensure that they are cultivated in civil servants.
Sir, the aspiration of the people of Zambia is to see a united, peaceful and prosperous nation, where there is respect for one another, equity and social justice without discrimination. In addition, we want to see the environment taken care of and the assets of the nation transparently accounted for and their use, optimised.
Mr Speaker, His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia emphasised in his speech, the need for all of us to be patriotic and love one another as ‘One Zambia, One Nation’. We need to respect the rule of law and institutions that, us, the people have established in the Constitution such as the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) and the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC), among others. Fighting corruption is everybody’s responsibility.
Sir, the Government is commended for reducing opportunities for theft and corruption, and enhancing transparency and accountability by introducing the Public Procurement Act of 2020 and the Public Finance and Management Act No. 1 of 2018. The Government is also using technology to make online payments, as a way of improving service delivery and accountability.
Mr Speaker, as I conclude, I wish to state that the people of Zambia value and desire to pursue peace. This is possible in an environment where there is love for one another and co-existing by respecting divergent views and opinions, and putting the interest of the nation first. Zambia is a haven of peace and a prosperous Christian nation.
I thank you, Sir.
The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the Motion of Thanks on His Excellency the President’s Address on the progress made in the application of national values and principles. I shall equally focus on the need for peace in our country.
Sir, the address by His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, should be viewed as a message of goodwill to all Zambians, to reflect on the essence of national values and principles, as our collective moral compass and, indeed, our national identity based on common ethics and beliefs, and as something that we must continue to strive, with patriotism and commitment to our country.
Mr Speaker, hon. Members of this august House have ably debated at length on all the national values and principles, especially those hon. Members who stood firmly on the importance of identifying ourselves with Zambians and what we ought to stand for, as our true heritage. No one apart from ourselves as Zambians will speak positively and progressively about us. That is what patriotism stands for.
Sir, living in a community demands one to live in peace and harmony with each other. My message to the Zambian people, buttressing the point by His Excellency the President in his address, is the message of peace. Peace in our families, peace with our neighbours, peace with the community around us and, indeed, peace with the larger people of our country and great nation Zambia, is of utmost importance. How do we hold on to the much needed peace for us to enjoy our lives here on earth? It is through respect for humanity and through nurturing our children and youths on our values and cherished principles. It is through speaking words of kindness, love and hope. It is also through correcting each other when we err in a civil and respectful manner across all age groups.
Mr Speaker, the President’s message was a call to all Zambians for self-introspection on the need to maintain peace, especially during elections. Peace is an essential requisite for development and prosperity. It must be our ideology and horizon. Therefore, every election that we hold must become a milestone in our nation’s journey towards greater social harmony, peace and prosperity, instead of turning elections into a battlefield. We cannot over-emphasise the importance of peace, particularly, in this political year. We, as leaders, must surely lead by example in the way we run our campaigns and, particularly, the language we use. Let us as elders show maturity in our actions and words. Let us not use our youths, indiscriminately and entice them wrongly, which makes them rise against elders in a disrespectful way. We all must understand that we are building a nation that will continue to exist for many generations to come and, hence, the importance of peace in growing a Zambia that we are all proud to live in.
Sir, in addressing the matter that is very close to my heart, the welfare of women and children, we must understand and fully respect the rights of this huge segment of the Zambian population. When women live in a peaceful environment, they are a powerhouse to building a family and, indeed, a nation. When our children are nurtured positively, they are future leaders who will continue to build on the peace that we have enjoyed over the years, as they fully understand its importance right from a tender age. Therefore, the Government will continue not to spare any effort to fight the ills of gender based violence, defilement and rape, as well as early child marriage.
Mr Speaker, this Government led by His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu means business over the core values and principles that identify us, as Zambians. This is why we ensured that this was enshrined in our Constitution. I re-emphasise that only us, as Zambians can speak positively about ourselves. There is no one nation that looks down upon its own people or its achievement despite the hurdles we all face. Indeed, that is patriotism. My fellow Zambians, let us stand for one another in peace and harmony.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs Phiri (Chilanga): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you most sincerely for having accorded me an opportunity to move this Motion. I would like also to thank all hon. Members of Parliament, who participated in the debate, for their objective contribution to the Motion.
Mr Speaker, with these few remarks, I thank you.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Question put and agreed to.
_______
BILLS
SECOND READING
THE RURAL ELECTRIFICATION (Amendment) BILL, 2021
The Minister of Energy (Mr Nkhuwa): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.
Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you for granting me this opportunity to add a word with regard to the Report by your Committee on the Rural Electrification (Amendment) Bill, No.20 of 2021.
Sir, the objective of this piece of legislation is to change the composition of the Rural Electrification Authority Board of Directors. As you may be aware, various legislations including the Rural Electrification Act stipulate that the Permanent Secretaries (PSs), sit on the boards to represent different ministries and institutions. However, this situation compromised the principles of good governance as PSs participate and make decisions at both board and/or Committee levels. They also provide policy oversight to the boards on behalf of the Government. This poses a conflict of interest as they are part of the board decisions and also responsible to enforce the implementation of policies by this statutory body. However, the ministry will still be represented at a lower, but still senior level.
Mr Speaker, the amendment to the Rural Electrification Act has further provided for the signing of the performance contracts between the authority and the ministry. This will help establish clear governance and reporting structures for continuous monitoring an improved performance of the authority. The introduction of performance-based contracts with the board will, therefore, guarantee improved operational efficiencies and attainment of goals which are set.
Sir, in brief, the changes to the Act will enhance overall institutional good governance for the authority and will be in line with current trends and developments in this area.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move.
Mr Malama (Nchelenge): Mr Speaker, I am most grateful for the opportunity.
Mr Speaker, Standing Order No. 146(1) sets out the terms of reference of the Committee and provides that it may consider any Bills referred to it by the House. In line with this, the Committee was tasked to scrutinise the Rural Electrification (Amendment) Bill, No. 20 of 2021. In order to acquaint itself with the ramifications of the Bill, your Committee sought both written and oral submissions from stakeholders.
Mr Speaker, the objective of the Bill is to amend the Rural Electrification (Amendment) Bill, 2021, to revise the composition of the Rural Electrification Authority to allow the hon. Minister responsible for Energy to enter into performance contracts with the Government body of the authority. In this regard, all the stakeholders who made submissions to the Committee on the Bill supported the intentions of the Bill and expressed confidence that the proposed amendments would provide the framework for guiding behaviour towards the attainment of results. The amendments would also help to ensure transparency and accountability in the use of the public resources and efficiency in the service delivery by the authority.
Sir, allow me to put it on record that the Committee is of the opinion that the proposed amendment relating to the composition of the – (inaudible).
Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Nchelenge, are you still there?
Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, yes. Am I audible?
Mr Speaker: You may continue hon. Member.
Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Speaker, while fully supporting the introduction of performance contracts under Clause 2 of the Bill, the Committee is of the view that the proposed amendments should be explicit that the performance contracts will be entered into between the hon. Minister and the governing body of the authority. Further, the Committee welcomes the replacement of the PSs with representatives as this will enhance good corporate governance. It is in light of this that the Committee recommends that only senior Government officials at the level of director and with the requisite expertise should be eligible for nomination to represent the ministry on the board of the Rural Electrification Authority (REA).
Mr Speaker, as I conclude, allow me to express my gratitude to you for your guidance during our deliberations during the scrutiny of the Rural Electrification (Amendment) Bill. Further, my appreciation goes to all the stakeholders for their oral and written submissions, and to the Clerk and her staff for the services they rendered to the Committee.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Nkhuwa: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the Chairperson of your Committee and also thank you for the job that has been well done on the Bill. I would also like to thank everybody who contributed on this Bill.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Question put and agreed to and the Bill read for a second time.
Committed to a Committee of the Whole House.
Committee stage, today.
THE NATIONAL HIV/AIDS/STI/TB COUNCIL (Amendment) BILL, 2021
The Minister of Health (Dr Chanda): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.
Mr Speaker, may I start thanking you for giving me an opportunity to present the policy statement on the National HIV/AIDS/STI/TB Council (Amendment) Bill, N.A.B. No. 8 of 2021.
Mr Speaker, the Government, under the able leadership of His Excellency, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, and President of the Republic of Zambia is committed to ensuring that Universal Health Coverage is provided, leaving no one behind. This is to be done through primary health care approach using promotive, preventive, curative, rehabilitative and palliative interventions.
Mr Speaker, the National HIV/AIDS/STI/TB Council Act, No. 10 of 2002, was enacted to provide among others, the establishment of the National HIV/AIDS/STI/TB Council (NAC), a statutory body under the Ministry of health. The mandate of the National HIV/AIDS/STI/TB Council as provided by this Act is to coordinate and support the development, monitoring and evaluation of multi-sectoral national response for the prevention and combating of the spread of Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV) and Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome (AIDS), Sexually Transmitted Infection (STI) and Tuberculosis (TB) in order to reduce the personal, social and economical impacts of HIV and AIDS, STI and TB on the Zambians.
Mr Speaker, the changing landscape of the HIV response as we move towards epidemic control requires the reconfiguration of the NAC to make it fit for the purpose and enhance its mandate to effectively coordinate, provide guidance, analyse and disseminate strategic information, track progress and ensure mutual accountability and solidarity of a sustained response.
Mr Speaker, the object of the National HIV/AIDS/STI/TB Council (Amendment) Bill, No. 8 of 2021, is to amend the National HIV/AIDS/STI/TB Council Act of 2002, so as to revise the composition of the council.
Mr Speaker, the first amendment is on Section 4 of the National HIV/AIDS/STI/TB Council Act. It is an expansion of the provisions of Section 4 by adding Sub-section (3) and (4). The ramifications of the amendment to Section 4, include Sub-section (3) and (4), as follows:
Sub-section 3:
This provision allows the hon. Minister to enlarge the functions of the National HIV/AIDS/STI/TB Council or Board, as long as they are consistent with the Act so that the enlarged functions are in tandem with the prevailing situation. This would mean that the hon. Minister would not need to seek for an amendment every time the councils functions needs to be enlarged.
Subsection 4:
The ramification of this amendment is that all civil servants have to sign performance contracts. So, Cabinet is rolling out the issues of performance contracts to boards and councils. The second amendment has to do with the composition of the board. Section 5(1)(a) of the Act provides for Permanent Secretaries (PSs) in ministries responsible for community development, education, health, youth and sport and child development, to be members of the board.
Mr Speaker, National HIV/AIDS/STI/TB Council (Amendment) Bill, N.A.B. No. 8 of 2021, intends to amend Section 5(1)(a) to read:
A representative of the ministry responsible for:
- community development;
- education;
- health; and
- youth and sport and child development.
Mr Speaker, the amendment to Section 5(1)(a) is based on the background that the Government has come up with a policy direction, following Cabinet observation that the appointment of PSs on some boards compromises the good governance principles. This is because it becomes challenging for the PS who is a board member and part of the decision to provide guidance on matters requiring such and at the same time, an administrative head who handles any queries with regard to operations of the board as this creates conflict of interest. The amendment is, therefore, simply an implementation of a Government policy direction. The ramifications of the amendment of Section 5(1)(a) are that the amendment will cure a problem to do with good governance.
Mr Speaker, the amendments are progressive and non-controversial as they are aimed at ensuring that legal framework guiding the operations of the National HIV/AIDS/STI/TB Council are in line with principles of good governance.
I urge the hon. Members of this august House to support the amendments.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move.
Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, I thank you most sincerely for the opportunity to make comments on this very important amendment. The Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services was tasked to scrutinise the National HIV/AIDS/STI/TB Council (Amendment) Bill, N.A.B. No. 8 of 2021, for the Fifth Session of the Twelfth National Assembly which was referred to it by the House on Tuesday, 16th February, 2021.
Sir, the Bill, as the hon. Minister highlighted, intends to amend the National HIV/AIDS/STI/TB Council Act, No. 10 of 2002, so as to revise the composition of the National HIV/AIDS/STI/TB Council. The Bill also intends to give powers to the hon. Minister to give general or specific directions and to enter into performance contracts with the council and council members, as we have heard from the hon. Minister.
Sir, carrying out this assignment, the Committee interacted with various stakeholders.
Mr Speaker, from the outset, I wish to put it on record that the Committee is in support of this Bill. In doing so, however, allow me to acquaint the House on some of the concerns that were raised by stakeholders that the Committee also agrees with, in relation to the amendments of the National HIV/AIDS/STI/TB Council (Amendment) Bill, N.A.B. No. 8 of 2021.
Sir, regarding Clause 2 of the Bill, the Committee is concerned that even though the Bill has indicated that the council will give effect to the directions of the hon. Minister, to the extent that the directions were not inconsistent with the Act, the proposed provision could still interfere with the independence and autonomy of the council. In addition, the Committee is concerned that it is not clear from the proposed Sub-section (3), whether these general or specific instructions by the hon. Minister would be in writing or not, as that could violate the principle of accountability and transparency, if such directives are issued informally.
Mr Speaker, in view of this, the Committee recommends that the insertion in Sub-section (3) be amended so as to specify that the hon. Minister will issue such directives through formal channels.
Further, the Committee is concerned that Subsections (3) and (4) under Clause 2, indirectly reduce the powers of the council and increase the powers of the hon. Minister who is also the appointing authority. In view of this, the Committee expresses concern that the council could be constrained in making critical decisions related to its performance and functions because of its limited powers to make such decisions.
Sir, under Clause 3, the stakeholders were of the view that representation on the council be extended to ministries responsible for religious affairs, gender and chiefs affairs as the social issues that surround Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV) and Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome (AIDS) including Tuberculosis (TB) had a direct bearing on these ministries. The Committee is in support of the stakeholder’s views and, therefore, recommends that the representation on the council be extended to these three ministries.
Mr Speaker, as I conclude, allow me to thank you for your guidance throughout the Committee’s deliberations on the Bill. I also wish to pay tribute to the stakeholders who interacted with the Committee and the members of the Committee. Lastly, I wish to thank the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the services rendered during the Committee’s deliberations.
I thank you, Sir.
Dr Chanda: Mr Speaker, I wish to thank your Committee for the concerns raised.
Sir, like I said, this Bill is non-controversial and very progressive. If we aim to have good governance, we need to remove Permanent Secretaries (PSs) of the ministries that we have talked about so that we improve good governance. This should be supported unanimously as it improves good governance and it is consistent with the other pieces of legislation that we are amending.
Mr Speaker, like I said when presenting the Bill of the Health Professionals Councils of Zambia (HPCZ), the hon. Minister’s instructions to the council will not be outside the Act. In fact, this is very categorical and consistent with the Act. So, the hon. Minister cannot act outside the law as no one is above the law. That is the comfort that I gave last time when I was presenting the Bill on the HPCZ, and that is the comfort I will give regarding this Bill.
Sir, nowhere in the Bill does it state that the powers of the council will be minimised. The council will maintain its powers. I agree with the Committee that we may need to include other relevant ministries like the Ministry of Gender and the Ministry of National Guidance and Religious Affairs, which also deal with social issues. We are open to that, but the comfort is that this is a very progressive piece of legislation.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.
Committed to a Committee of the Whole House.
Committee Stage, today.
THE PUBLIC SERVICE PENSIONS (Amendment) BILL, 2021
The Minister of Justice (Mr Lubinda): Sir, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.
Mr Speaker, I am grateful for allowing me to deliver a policy statement on the Bill before you.
Sir, the object of this Bill is to amend the Public Service Pensions Act Cap 260 of the Laws of Zambia so as to do two things. Firstly, to revise the composition of the board and in so doing, the intention of the Bill is to remove the membership to the board of the Permanent Secretary (PS) and replacement thereof with a representative of the ministry responsible for labour and social security and the Public Service Management Division (PSMD), Cabinet Office. Secondly, to enshrine in this Act, as is the case in many other similar Acts, a proviso that gives the hon. Minister the authority to give directions to the board relating to the performance of the functions of the board, and for the hon. Minister to enter into contracts with the board for specified periods and in accordance with the provisions of the Act.
Mr Speaker, yesterday, I presented numerous Bills and my hon. Colleagues presented similar Bills with similar objects. This is a governance matter that His Excellency the President, Dr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, has realised as a necessity so as to improve and enhance good corporate governance in our country.
I beg to move, Sir.
Dr Imakando: Mr Speaker, the Committee on Cabinet Affairs considered the Public Service Pensions (Amendment) Bill No.11 of 2021, which was referred to it on 16th February, 2021.
Sir, the Committee in considering the Bill invited various stakeholders to comment on the ramifications of the amendment. I believe hon. Members have had an opportunity to read the report. The object of the Bill before this House is to amend the Public Service Pensions Act Chapter 260 of the Laws of Zambia, so as to revise the composition of the board.
Mr Speaker, the Bill seeks to amend Section 41 of the principle Act by deletion of paragraphs (a) and (b) substituting it with representatives of the ministry responsible for labour and social security and the Public Service Management Division (PSMD), Cabinet Office. This amendment is welcome as we believe that having Permanent Secretaries (PSs) on boards could compromise good governance principles.
Sir, the Bill also seeks to amend Section 7 of the principle Act by the insertion of a new Subsection (2) which bestows on the hon. Minister’s powers to give the board directions on the performance of its functions. With regard to this amendment, the Committee does not agree with it. Therefore, it is of the view that it should be deleted as it could create an opportunity for the hon. Minister to interfere with the functions of the board. The Committee maintains that the functions as set out in the Act are adequate in guiding the board to perform its role.
Sir, in conclusion, I wish to appeal to the Government to consider the Committee’s recommendations on the ramifications of the amendment Bill. Finally, the Committee wishes to record its indebtedness to you and the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the guidance and support given during the deliberations. The Committee also pays tribute to all stakeholders who made submissions before it.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Kambita: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Zambezi East, I have noticed you have raised a point of order. Is it compelling?
Mr Kambita: Mr Speaker, the point of order is very compelling and urgent. We need to deal with this matter right now.
Mr Speaker, we have gone ahead conducting Business of the House today with part of the system of the House malfunctioning. From the outset, the Electronic-Chamber (e-Chamber) was not operational and we have passed Motions. You have called for hon. Members to either support the Motions or not, and we did not have any opportunity to call for a division. Is the House in order to continue conducting business in this manner when part of the system of the House is malfunctioning?
I seek your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker: My ruling is that whenever the Electronic-Chamber (e-Chamber) is not functioning, and I think we guided earlier on, you should resort to the Zoom platform.
Mr Lubinda: Sir, I have been given two minutes and all that remains of me is to thank your Committee for supporting this progressive amendment. I just want to clarify that the issue of hon. Ministers giving direction to boards is a matter that is non-controversial. I would like to request hon. Members of Parliament to kindly read the Constitution. In this particular case, I would like to refer my hon. Colleagues to two important Articles of the Constitution. Article 91(2) of the Constitution says:
“The executive authority of the State vests in the President and, subject to this Constitution, shall be exercised directly by the President or through public officers or other persons appointed by the President.”
Mr Speaker, that should be read together with Article 116(2) which says:
“A Minister shall be responsible, under the direction of the President, for the policy and strategic direction of a Ministry, department or other State institution, as assigned to him by the President.”
Sir, the one who is answerable to Parliament regarding these institutions that we are talking about, is the President and in the place of the President, is Her Honour the Vice-President. All hon. Ministers have the responsibility to report to Parliament on behalf of the Leader of Government Business. This is the reason hon. Ministers need to have a responsibility over the operations of institutions under their charge in the ministries. Otherwise, how else will Parliament hold those entities accountable, if the hon. Ministers have no supervisory authority?
Mr Speaker, this is a constitutional provision and some of the witnesses to this Committee actually alluded to the fact that this is a very important inclusion in this Bill. It is also important in all the other Bills that have been moved, where this matter has been addressed. This should not raise any controversy. It should not appear as though we are changing anything. We are just keeping in conformity with the provisions of the supreme law of the land, as I have stated at Articles 91 and 116 of the Constitution.
I thank you, Sir.
Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.
Committed to a Committee of the Whole House.
Committee Stage, today.
THE TROPICAL DISEASES RESEARCH CENTRE (Amendment) BILL, 2021
The Minister of Health (Dr Chanda): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.
Sir, may I start by thanking you for giving me an opportunity to present a policy statement on the Tropical Diseases Research Centre (Amendment) Bill No. 13 of 2021, before this august House.
Mr Speaker, the Government, under the able leadership of His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Dr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, is committed to ensuring that universal health coverage is provided without leaving anyone behind. This is to be done through primary health care approach using promotive, preventive, curative, rehabilitative and palliative interventions.
Sir, allow me to provide a brief background to the Tropical Disease Research Centre which is a medical research and training institution that was originally set up in 1975, as one of the three world regional centres for research in tropical diseases such as malaria, schistosomiasis, trypanosomiasis, filariasis and other tropical diseases. The other two centres were set up in Thailand and Brazil.
Mr Speaker, the setting up of Tropical Diseases Research Centres in developing countries became imperative for various reasons including the need to conduct research in tropical diseases, closer to the people in which the burden of disease was high, the need to prevent the spread of disease to other areas and develop medicines, tools and strategies for the control of tropical diseases. Prior to this, although some benefits from the research done in developed countries would trickle down to indigenous people in tropical countries, it was considered inadequate to answer specific research questions to formulate interventions to mitigate the suffering of indigenous people.
Sir, in order to ensure that the interventions are based on concrete evidence, the health system has to rely on research. The Tropical Disease Research Centre Act was enacted in April, 1982, to provide among others, the establishment of the Tropical Diseases Research Centre and the Tropical Diseases Research Centre Board to provide strategic leadership to the Tropical Diseases Research Centre management.
Mr Speaker, the Tropical Diseases Research Centre (Amendment) Bill, 2021, which is before this august House seeks to amend the Tropical Diseases Research Centre Act so as to revise the composition of the board. Section 5 of the Tropical Diseases Research Centre Act provides for the Permanent Secretary (PS) of the province in which the centre is located to be a member of the board. The amendment Bill seeks to replace the PS of the province in which the centre is located with a representative of the provincial administration.
Sir, the amendment is based on the background that the Government has come up with a policy direction, following the Cabinet’s observation that the appointment of PSs on some boards compromises the good governance principles. This is because it becomes challenging for the PS, who is a board member and part of the decision-making to provide guidance on matters requiring such, and at the same time, is an administrative head who handles any queries with regard to operations of the board to provide guidance on matters. The amendment is, therefore, simply an implementation of a Government policy direction. The ramification of the amendment of Section 5(1)(b) is that it will cure a problem to do with good governance.
Mr Speaker, the amendment Bill is progressive and non-controversial as it is aimed at ensuring that the legal framework guiding the management and operations of the Tropical Diseases Research Centre is in line with principles of good governance. I, therefore, urge the hon. Members of this House to support the Bill.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move.
Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, I rise to present the report of the Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services on the Tropical Diseases Research Centre (Amendment) Bill No. 13 of 2021, for the Fifth Session of the Twelfth National Assembly, referred to the Committee by the House on 16th February, 2021.
Sir, the House may wish to note that the main objective of the Bill is to amend the Tropical Diseases Research Centre Act Cap 301 so as to revise the composition of the board as has already been highlighted by the hon. Minister. In particular, the Bill seeks to amend Section 5:
Dr Musokotwane: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, my point of order is a follow-up to the one that was raised earlier on, regarding the fact that the e-Chamber is not accessible by many of our colleagues. You advised that people could instead use Zoom.
Mr Speaker, as you are aware, Zoom has no facilities for responding to a division, if so required. You have put questions on the Floor several times this afternoon and people have no opportunity to respond to those. So, are we in order to continue to conduct business when a facility, if required, for division is not available. As you can see, I was not even able to raise a point of order on the system which is not responding, clearly showing that there is something wrong with the system. Are we in order?
Mr Speaker: I will focus on the latter part because that is what is vital, namely: should we continue? The answer is yes. Why it is yes is because the system is functioning. I will ask somebody from Information and Communications Technology (ICT) department just to come down there and assist you whilst we are progressing.
The hon. Member for Lukulu East may continue.
Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, the House may wish to note that the main objective of the Bill is to amend the Tropical Disease Research Centre Act Cap 301, so as to revise the composition of the board.
Mr Speaker, in particular, the Bill seeks to amend section 5(1) of the Principal Act so as to revise the composition of the board by replacing the appointment of the Permanent Secretary (PS), Provincial Administration with a representative of the Provincial Administration.
Mr Speaker, the House will agree with me that there is need to amend the provision providing for the appointment of a PS on the Tropical Disease Research Centre Board as it has been noted that the appointment of PSs on some boards or technical committees compromises good governance principals, as PSs who participate and make decision at board or committee level also provide policy direction to the council on behalf of the Government. This poses a conflict of interest in the execution of the PS’s role. Therefore, once enacted the Tropical Disease Research Centre (Amendment) Bill No. 13 of 2021, will address this gap which the Committee is in full support.
Mr Speaker, I wish to state also that most stakeholders who appeared before the committee were also in full support of this Bill.
Mr Speaker, the Committee’s findings are outlined in the report, which I would like to believe that Hon. Members have had the time to read through to this end. Allow me, therefore, to just highlight a few of the Committee’s observations and recommendations.
Mr Kintu: On a point of order, Sir
Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Kintu: Mr Speaker, this is my maiden point of order, and it is on the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, Hon. Kampyongo.
Mr Speaker: Order!
Hon. Member, I will not allow you to proceed further, because currently I was primarily concerned with points of order relating to the technical function of the system. I will come back to you at an appropriate juncture. I do not think that warrants …
Mr Kintu interjected
Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, I am speaking.
I do not think that it warrants disturbing the Chairperson for the Committee on Health Community Development, and Social Services. Let him complete his Business.
Hon. Member for Lukulu East, you may continue, please.
Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, the Committee observes that whereas the amendment proposes representation of the provincial administration in which the centre will be located, the Committee is concerned that the amendment does not specify the qualifications of such a representative. This omission has the potential to lead to the appointment of a person from the provincial administration without the relevant or requisite known on how of the operations of the center, especially that the centre is scientific in nature.
In this regard, the Committee recommends that the Bill should explicitly state or give some kind of idea of the representative from the provincial administration who should have scientific and corporate governance background in order to bring values to the operations of the Tropical Disease Research Centre.
Mr Speaker, the Committee also agrees with stakeholders who hold the view that Clause 5 should explicitly provide for the specific qualifications of the individual to be appointed to represent the provincial administration in order to avoid appointments based on considerations other than merit, and ensure that the person appointed could add value to the operations of the Tropical Disease Research Centre.
Mr Speaker, another issue of concern is that the proposed amendment being the only change to the Tropical Disease Research Centre Act of 1982, is inadequate and will not bring value to the operations of the Tropical or Disease Research Center, whose Act is quite old, given the various changes that have taken place in the health sector over the years, such as the changing of the epidemiological landscape of tropical diseases, among other things. The Committee, therefore, recommends in addition that the Tropical Disease Research Centre Act of 1982 be repealed and replaced in its totality to facilitate for accountability, autonomy and high performance in the operations and management of the center.
Mr Speaker, I would like to conclude by thanking you for affording the Committee an opportunity to study the Bill. The Committee wishes to thank all the stake holders who appeared including the contributions of the hon. Members and all those that tendered both oral and written submissions.
Mr Speaker, the Committee also appreciates the services rendered by the Clerk of the National Assembly, as always, and her staff during its deliberations.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Dr Chanda: Mr Speaker, I wish to thank the Committee for the overwhelming support and the stakeholders who supported this Bill. We note some of the concerns and recommendations raised by the Committee.
Mr Speaker, the qualifications like we did in other boards, is given that a representative of the minister should be someone at senior level or director level. So, if that has to be incorporated, there is no harm. That is what we have done with the other Bill
Mr Speaker, on the specific qualifications of that person, the Bill should not be over prescriptive that one should have a grade twelve certificate, with six points in order to be a representative of the minister. It is enough to say, senior level or director level because for someone to attain that position, obviously, they must have the relevant qualifications.
Mr Speaker, I reassured the parliamentary Committee on Health Community Development and Social Services that the Tropical Disease Research Centre Bill, is among many other Bills that would be coming to that Committee so that we align them with current needs in the health sector.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Question put and agreed to and the Bill was read a second time.
Committed to the Committee of the Whole House.
Committee Stage, today.
THE CYBER SECURITY AND CYBER CRIMES BILL, 2021
(Resumption of debate)
Mr Speaker: Before we resume, let me provide some guidance. You all recall that the last time we debated this particular Bill, the debate was extensive. I would like to make reasonable progress on this particular matter today. As a result, I will allow very limited debate so that we know which direction this Bill is taking.
Mr S. Banda (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to debate on this vote. This afternoon, I debate with a heavy heart, with the passing on of Hon. Maxas Bwaupe Ng’onga, may his soul rest in peace.
Ms Lubezhi: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, this afternoon, at 1459 hours, on a platform, which was created by the Information and Communication Technology (ICT) personnel, to hon. Members of Parliament, there was a communiqué from Mr Mumbi, saying, “Hon. Members we are currently having a challenge with e-Chamber, we are working on it now, kindly try it after a few minutes.” At exactly 1555 hours, there was another communiqué, saying, “Hon. Members Kindly log in now, the e-Chamber is working.”
Mr Speaker, unfortunately, the e-Chamber is not yet working, for some of us. As if that is not enough, you will recall that from about 1430 to 1555 hours, you had put so many questions, which personally, I would have loved to call for a division and put a word to the people of Namwala that I did not agree to some of the Bills which went through today.
Mr Speaker, as I talk to you, right now, the e-Chamber facility on my device is still down. I am a member of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Affairs, where we agreed that we defer the Cyber Security and Cyber Crimes Bill, and I am still for that position. Going by the way our colleagues have been debating, I know you will put the Bill to a question, how then do I call for a division and oppose?
Mr Speaker, I need your serious guidance. We are passing laws for Zambia, and we should all have a say in what we are passing in the National Assembly of Zambia.
Mr Speaker: Order!
Hon. Member for Namwala, we are going to get in-touch with you, immediately and I will deploy the Information and Communication Technology (ICT) staff to get in-touch with you, so that your conundrum is resolved as soon as possible. I will be monitoring this very closely as the business progresses. That is my ruling.
Mr S. Banda: Mr Speaker, before I was interrupted, I was saying that the world is involved in how communities and businesses interact and transact. This evolution and advancement in how communities and businesses interact has been enabled by the epoch of internet of things. This epoch of internet of things has not just come with an advancement and innovation opportunities, but also with eminent threats. That said, the internet of things has necessitated businesses to move from the physical space to the cyber space. This means, therefore, that personal identifiable data such as protected health information, intellectual property, the Government and industry business processes has moved to the cyber space.
Mr Speaker, allow me to also say that criminals of all shapes and sizes have also moved from the physical space to the cyber space in all external business environments such as the economical, social, cultural environment, political and legal environment.
Mr Speaker, the proposed Bill is holistic in nature, to deal with all cyber threats in the external environments which I have highlighted. However, it is surprising that our colleagues on the left debate as though this Bill is meant only to deal with crime in the political environment, when in the actual sense, this Bill is holistic. Some of its provisions are preventive, curative, punitive and proactive in dealing with cyber threats. With that said, I can gladly say that this Bill should have been enacted like yesterday. In fact, with the foregoing, all security wings and investigating agencies responsible for protecting us from external and internal cyber threats must have moved in, like yesterday because criminals are already committing these crimes in all the highlighted external business environment.
Mr Speaker, it is surprising that hon. Members on your left would like the security and investigating wings to remain in the physical space whilst criminals are already committing crime in the cyber space. In fact, I would like to encourage the hon. Minister of Home Affairs to build relevant capacity in the security and investigation wing and establish a robust Information and Communication Technology (ICT) and security infrastructure. Train data scientist to manage data, and build models to identify suspicious activities using algorithms in being able to trace these criminals. In fact, this is the area where Zambians have been misled. Our friends on the left said, this Bill is meant for the Government to check what is going on with individuals, to the contrary, this is meant to trace criminals.
Mr Speaker, to necessitate the enactment of this Bill, a special report by Steven Morgan in the latest version of Cybercrime Magazine, predicts that about US$6 trillion in terms of damage would have been done by 2021, and it is predicated that cyber crime would have grown by 15 per cent annually. Meaning, by 2025, we would have had a damage of US$10.6 trillion which is quite gross, and this is only in the economical environment. What about the damage in the political, legal, social and cultural environments? The damage is enormous. With this, this Bill must be supported by all well-meaning Zambians. I am wondering why people are scared to have this Bill enacted. With that said, I am surprised at all those opposed to the Bill. Oyopa nji amambala?
Mr Speaker, with this, I support the Bill.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Kasenengwa, what did you say towards the end?
Mr S. Banda: Mr Speaker, let me paraphrase. I said, those who opposed to this Bill, what are they afraid of? Meaning, they do have –
Mr Speaker: No, you used a vernacular word,
Mr S. Banda: I said, “oyopa nji amambala?”
Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, can you withdraw and apologise.
Mr S. Banda: Mr Speaker, I withdraw and apologise.
I thank you, Sir.
The Minister of Transport and Communication (Mr Kafwaya): Mr Speaker, seventeen hon. Members of Parliament have debated this Bill, and that shows that the interest has stimulated. It is an important Bill, indeed. Important because security is important for every citizen, and this is why His Excellency Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, would like all Zambians to be secured.
Mr Speaker, your Committee recommended for the deferment of the Bill so that the Ministry of Justice and the Ministry of Transport and Communication can move amendments in line with stakeholder views.
Sir, we have considered the views of the stakeholders and we have been able to already propose twenty amendments.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Speaker: For the record, the hon. Member for Namwala has been contacted and she has confirmed that all is well.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Hon. Members called for a division.
Mr Speaker: Order!
There is an indication of the division and we are scrutinising the list. I will advise the outcome shortly.
Logging in
Mr Speaker: Order!
For the record, at the point of adjournment, the system is indicating that the connection is unstable and, therefore, at this juncture, we cannot proceed with the voting.
(Debate adjourned)
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The House adjourned at 1656 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 4th March, 2021.
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