DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE SECOND SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Friday, 9th November, 2012

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House an idea of the business it will consider next week.

Sir, on Tuesday, 13th November, 2012, the Business of the House will commence with the hon. Member of Parliament for Mufumbwe taking his seat.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, after that, there will be Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by a presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Then the House will resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2013 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure and will consider the following heads:

    Head 12 - Commission for Investigations-Office of the President;
    Head 13 - Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs; and
    Head 14 - Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development.

Sir, on Wednesday, 14th November, 2012, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider the Private Members’ Motions, if there will be any. The House will then resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2013 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure in order to consider the following heads:

    Head 17 - Ministry of Foreign Affairs;
    Head 18 - Judiciary; and 
    Head 31 - Ministry of Justice.

Mr Speaker, on Thursday 15th November, 2012, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then consider the Second Reading Stage of the Re-Denomination of Currency Bill, National Assembly Bill No. 8 of 2012 which was presented to the House on Wednesday, 31st October, 2012. Thereafter, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2013 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure and the following heads will be considered;

    Head 46 - Ministry of Health;
    Head 27 - Public Service Management Division; and
    Head 34 - Human Rights Commission.

Sir, on Friday, 16th November, 2012, the Business of the House will commence with the Vice-President’s Question Time, if the questioners will be there. This will be followed by Questions, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will deal with the presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2013 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure and will consider the following heads:

    Head 26 - Ministry of Information and Broadcasting; and
    Head 44 - Ministry of Labour and Social Security.
Sir, the House will then deal with any business that may be outstanding.

I thank you, Sir.

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

LAUNCH OF TREE PLANTING PROGRAMME

The Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection (Mr Simuusa): Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you for giving me this opportunity to deliver this ministerial statement. I would like to start by saying that I am greatly honoured to issue this statement on the launch of the long awaited National Tree Planting Programme or NTPP, in short.

Sir, this is an initiative by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government with help from co-operating partners and the private sector to plant 25,100,000 trees countrywide. This will be approximately 20,000 hectares, which will include private sector tree planting initiatives for the 2012/2013 tree planting season.

Mr Speaker, our country is endowed with vast forest resources currently estimated at 50 million hectares or sixty-six per cent of the total land cover of Zambia with a growing volume of 2.9 billion cubic metres per annum. Regrettably, this resource is presently threatened with one of the highest deforestation rates in the world estimated at between 250,000 to 300,000 hectares per annum. The attendant annual saw log timber deficit is 2.5 million cubic metres.

Sir, there is urgent need for a serious concerted effort to address this very serious situation. For the first time in thirty years, the PF Government, in line with its manifesto has taken a bold step to address the depleting forest resources by funding my ministry with an initial amount of K12 billion. The purpose of this funding is as follows:

    (a)    immediately establish large scale tree nurseries in all the ten provinces of Zambia and at Forest Research Centre in Kitwe, bringing the total to eleven;

    (b)    immediately raise 17,500,000 tree seedlings in all these eleven large scale nurseries countrywide by 15th December, 2012;

    (c)    engage 5,000 local people during the production or planting of the seedlings, which will include individuals with their own tree seedlings;

    (d)    develop an out grower scheme to produce 8,000,000 seedlings countrywide valued at K1 billion which will be equivalent to 800 nurseries which will have a 10,000 seedlings capacity each before 15th December, this year;

    (e)    involve all the royal establishments, schools, health facilities, churches and other community based institutions in tree planting; and

    (f)    plant various species which will include Pinus, Eucalyptus, Moringa, Faldherbia and other tree species including fruit trees.

Mr Speaker, the PF Government has recognised the fact that the current high rate of deforestation and forest degradation if not urgently addressed will lead to desertification, which is the drying up of our country, Zambia. Most parts of the country shall be affected with huge repercussions for our well being as a people and indeed to our livestock as well as wild animals. We are already witnessing this in certain parts of our country, like the Mweru Wantipa in Kaputa District in the Northern Province as well as the Central, Southern and Western provinces.

Sir, a well managed forest resource is vital for the maintenance of sound productive eco-systems which we so much depend on in water catchment areas. Recently, I was privileged to visit the source of the mighty Zambezi River in Ikelenge District. I was dismayed to learn from the local conservation specialist there that due to a reduction in the forest cover, because of human activities, the amount of water discharged has reduced drastically.

This reduction in the discharge of water threatens the future socio-economic development of not only Zambia, but the Southern Africa Development Community (SADC) region as a whole. This arises due to the fact that the entire Zambezi River basin area will be adversely affected giving rise to untold misery to both human beings and animals. Worse still, this sad development has become the order of the day in many parts of our country. Forests are being indiscriminately cleared to pave way for unsustainable poor agricultural methods of farming, charcoal production techniques and logging practices with very little consideration of the negative consequences of our actions to our environment. The PF Government’s urgency in embarking on a national tree planting programme is with the aim of reversing the destruction of our forests for our very own survival.

Mr Speaker, besides the aspect of fighting for our survival, the planting, proper management and utilisation of trees which I am calling ‘our green gold’ has the potential to turn the economy of Zambia around. We can learn from the example of Finish whose economy has been developed and is sustained by the prudent use of their forests. The economy of Finland is one of the best in the world.

Mr Speaker, bearing the foregoing in mind, at provincial level, the tree planting programme shall be implemented as follows:

(a)the nursery size shall be two to three hectares per district;

(b)1,550 tonnes of soil shall be collected for these nurseries;

(c)452 workers shall be engaged per province and at the forestry research centre to plant and raise the seedlings;

(d)1,550,000 polythene pots shall be filled with soil and sown seeds;

(e)1,550,000 polythene pots shall be used for seed germination; and

(f)each province and the forestry research centre in Kitwe shall receive K485,057,251 for programme implementation.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: The following species will be available for planting in provinces and it will be dependent on what species are preferred for that province:

(a)Pinus species shall be grown to produce timber, poles and resins;

(b)Eucalyptus species shall be grown to produce timber, poles and firewood; 

(c)Faldherbia Albida (thorn tree) species shall be grown for animal fodder, nitrogen fixing (amelioration of the soil) and firewood;

(d)Moringa Oleifera for medicine, fodder, oil and food. This shall constitute 20 per cent of the total growing stock; and

(e)fruit trees such as guava, lemon, pawpaw, pomegranate, mango, avocado and so on shall be planted to enhance food security.

Mr Speaker, the fruit trees shall constitute 40 per cent of the growing stock while the rest of the trees shall constitute 60 per cent. Needles to state here that the programme cannot be implemented without the participation of our communities. Against this background, the following institutions and individuals are expected to plant the 8,000,000 trees countrywide:

(a)schools;

(b)chiefdoms;

(c)clinics and other health facilities;

(d)churches or faith based institutions;

(e)women and youth groups;

(f)Other institutions such as the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporations (ZESCO), banks, Zambia Forestry and Forest Industries Corporation (ZAFFICO), Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) and so on and so forth;

(g)individuals; and

(h)hon. Members of Parliament. We expect the hon. Members to participate in this programme.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, when we did our calculation, we found that an average of 100,000 seedlings will be planted in each of the eighty districts in our country. Presently, the quantities of seeds which have been collected and dispatched to the provincial forestry offices through the Forestry Department are as follows:

(a)Pinus Kesiya and Oocarpa – 50 kg. Each province has been given 4-5 kg which is equivalent to 270,000 seeds;

(b)Eucalyptus (various species) – 10kg. Each province has been given 1 kg which is equivalent to 1 million seeds;

(c)Faldherbia Albida (thorn tree) – 300kg. Each province has been given 27.3 kg which is equivalent to 273,000 seeds;

(d)Moringa Oleifera – 300kg. Each province has been given 27.3kg which is equivalent to 68,000 seeds;

(e)Bakiae Plurijuga (miombo tree) – 500 kg. The Western and Southern provinces shall plant 50kg each which is equivalent to 100,000 seed each;

(f)Guibortia Coleospermum (muzauli) – 200kg. The Western and Southern provinces shall plant 30kg each which is equivalent to 150,000 seed each; and

(g)Rattan and Rubber species – 500kg. The North-Western and Luapula provinces shall plant 250kg each.{mospagebreak}

The nursery out-grower scheme is expected to raise 8,000,000 seedlings in the ten provinces. The Government shall purchase each seedling at K500. We expect those with their own nurseries to come forward so that we can purchase seedlings from them. Everyone should come on board so that we can meet our target of 25 million seedlings for this year by 15th December. Upon raising the seedlings, they shall be transplanted in in the following designated areas:

(a)Central Province – Kabwe and Serenje, 700 hectares;

(b)Copperbelt Province – Ndola, Mufulira and Chingola, 5,000 hectares;

(c)Eastern Province – Katete and Chipata, 2,700 hectares;

(d)Luapula Province – Mwense, Samfya and Kaputa, 5,000 hectares;

(e)Lusaka Province – Chongwe and Rufunsa, 4,000 hectares;

(f)Muchinga Province – Chinsali and Mpika, 10,000 hectares;

(g)Northern Province – Kasama and Mpulungu, 5,000 hectares;

(h)North-Western Province – Solwezi and Mwinilunga, 5,000 hectares;

(i)Southern Province – Choma, Magoye and Kalomo, 3,000 hectares; and

(j)Western Province –Mongu and Kaoma, 5,000 hectares.

Mr Speaker, given the foregoing, the total number of hectares to be planted will be 51,700 countrywide. This figure includes enrichment planting and community woodlots in designated places such as forest reserves, schools, churches, health centres, royal establishments (chiefdoms) and so on and so forth.

Mr Speaker, forests are a renewable natural resource which, with prudent management, can sustain our country in perpetuity by providing forest goods, employment opportunities and sound productive ecosystem goods and services. This national tree planting programme, once fully rolled out is expected to create more than 200,000 jobs. The first phase of establishing forest and community nurseries will create more than 6,000 jobs countrywide.

It is my sincere belief that once this programme is implemented, the country will have contributed its share in the reduction of green house gases which are responsible for global warming and climate change with its adverse effects to mother earth. I, therefore, urge all the hon. Ministers, hon. Members of parliament, individual nursery owners, youths, women and men to visit the Forestry Department at provincial and district offices to find out how they can participate in this noble cause.

Mr Speaker, I am sure everyone will agree with me that on one hand while we embark on this national tree planting exercise, on the other hand we need to put in place measures to stop the destruction and cutting down of our trees.

In the past six months or so, my office has received numerous complaints from concerned citizens about the manner our valuable timber species are being exploited. Most, if not all, timber licencees do not abide by the terms and conditions of their licences. A lot of debris and branch wood is left on stumps. This frustrates coppicing and natural seeding, thus adversely affecting natural generation. 

Equally, all forest licencees have not demarcated their boundaries and put into effect effective fire management regimes to encourage the natural regeneration of their concession areas. The lack of clear boundaries for their concession areas has brought up unnecessary disputes with local communities.

Furthermore, it has come to my attention that most timber licencees are over-cutting the allowable extraction volumes per month and in the habit of purchasing timber illegally from local communities, thus abetting the unsustainable exploitation of our valuable timber species. To make matters worse, most pit-saw licencees are using chained saws and wood misers for felling and splitting timber, respectively, instead of the axes and two-man saws in the pits, thus over-cutting the allowable volume for pit-sawers per month. This cannot be allowed to continue. 

It is in this regard that I, with immediate effect, suspend all timber licences until further notice …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: … as empowered under Section 68, 2(f) of the Forests Act No. 39 of 1973, Cap. 199 of the Laws of Zambia. This suspension will not, however, apply to exotic timber plantations or timber that was legally extracted, processed and is in timber yards, factories or markets. 

All provincial and district forest officials and law agencies are instructed to ensure that this ban is enforced. My ministry will engage our royal establishments, line ministries, non-governmental organisations (NGO) in the forestry sector and saw millers, just to mention but a few, to develop effective governance systems in the sustainable management of our valuable timber species as well as policing mechanisms.

During the suspension, Mr Speaker, no indigenous saw logs, cants or poles will be felled and transported to any destination. Any saw logs, cants or indeed poles that will be found being felled or transported to any destination or markets will be confiscated and forfeited to the State. I have taken this drastic measure in the nation interest of ending the indiscriminate exploitation of our valuable national resource.

Sir, before I end my statement, I congratulate the Ruling Party for the well-deserved victories around the country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: I, also call upon each one of us to give a gift of life and plant a tree.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, first of all, let me congratulate the hon. Minister for delivering a very good statement.  Could he talk about charcoal burners because they are finishing trees. This issue has not been addressed. 

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I would be the first to admit that charcoal burning is a very thorny issue currently in our nation.  Before the end of the year, we shall engage all the key stakeholders on the best way to proceed, as a nation. While, on one hand, we are acknowledging that charcoal burning is actually a means of livelihood and sustenance for many of our people, on the other, it is affecting our environment. So, we are trying to see the best way to proceed, as a Government, especially in terms of finding alternative energy sources and means of livelihood for the charcoal burners and sellers who will be affected.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his statement. It could not have come any later than this. It is also important for me to be magnanimous and congratulate the PF for winning the seats.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, would the hon. Minister admit that he failed in his ministerial statement by not coming up with even just trajectories on how to improve alternative sources of energy as substitutes for fossil fuel burning, a matter that should, actually, be much more urgent than tree-planting because, for us to get the full benefits, we may need a minimum of eight years? Why has he not made actual proposals in his statement on how the Government intends to introduce alternative sources of energy as substitutes for fossil fuels?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I think that we have to be strategic in our approach, as Government. We cannot do everything at the same time. We have to start from somewhere. The first step to reducing or reversing deforestation is to plant. After this, we shall come up with other steps on how to promote the alternative energy sources. This is a cross-cutting issue. 

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, I congratulate the hon. Minister for that statement. It is long overdue. It is welcome and very good because we need re-afforestation. Why have the licences been suspended or cancelled? What is he doing, specifically about the black forests in Lukulu, which are after Kaoma? There is total destruction and the people involved are foreigners. What are you doing to immediately stop this problem?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, let me start by acknowledging the congratulations from the senior hon. Member of Parliament. It means that we are on the right track. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, one of the areas we are targeting is tree-cutting in the Western Province. The situation prevailing in that area is totally unacceptable. That is why there is an immediate ban will affect even those areas.  There will be no more cutting or moving of logs. Whilst this suspension is on, we will put measures on how to proceed in terms of tree planting. We shall not allow a situation in which forests are being depleted the way they are, especially in Western Province. So, that is on the cards.

Thank you, Sir.

Brigadier-General Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, I hope that the hon. Minister will recognise that I am also a senior hon. Member of Parliament.

Laughter

Brigadier-General Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I wish also to appreciate his …

Mr Speaker: I am sure the record will speak for itself.

You can continue.

Laughter

Brigadier-General Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, as we embark on this programme, could the hon. Minister, please, consider involving tourists who visit our country? Let each tourist be encouraged to plant, at least, one tree wherever they visit so that we have this linkage locally and abroad.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, let me acknowledge the other senior hon. Member of Parliament for a very good suggestion. We will take that on board because we are going to be working through the other ministries, and the hon. Minister of Tourism and Art is listening.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisanga (Mkushi South): Mr Speaker, in Central Province, you have picked on Kabwe and Serenje districts. Due to the high population in Kabwe, do you not think that Mkushi is better-placed, compared with Kabwe? Why have you picked on Kabwe?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, our plan was to start in areas that are hardest hit by deforestation. We decided to start from areas where the problem is at its worst. That is how we chose Kabwe and Serenje. The programme is has 21 million trees and, as area hon. Member of Parliament, you will be very influential in this programme. I can reveal that we will give each hon. Member of Parliament a thousand seedlings to plant anywhere they choose. You can influence the schools and hospitals in Mkushi to plant. Therefore, you can influence the programme even as it goes on.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kazonga (Vubwi): Mr Speaker, I found the part on plant species and their uses in the ministerial statement very interesting. I got attracted, particularly, to one plant species called the Moringa Orio Ferra. The hon. Minister indicated its uses as oil, food and medicine. Can he share with the House what type of medicine we get from this Moringa? If it is possible, he may also tell us what ailments it can cure. 
 
Laughter

Mr Speaker: It looks like we have now gone into consultation.

Laughter

Hon. Member: Sondashi.

Mr Simuusa: Sondashi.

Laughter

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, that is very interesting. Currently, Moringa is very popular on the Zambian market for medicinal purposes. However, I will not go into those details, but invite the hon. Member to come and I will give him a list. We have, at the ministry, a very good list of all the trees that have medicinal properties. It is not only Moringa. There are others like Avocado. As a way of responding, I can promise that, if he came, I will give him the whole list so that he can have the benefits.

Hon. Lubinda: He wants to become Sondashi number two.

Laughter

Mr Simuusa: I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande (Kasempa) Mr Speaker, I thank you …

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.  

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I wonder if the hon. Member for Mumbwa is in order to claim seniority when he only came into the House as a nominated hon. Member and was followed by the hon. Member of Parliament for Keembe, who came in through a by-election. Both found me in the House.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: Is him in order to claim seniority? Further, the hon. Minister could have asked Hon. Dr Chituwo to advise on medicinal purposes of trees without worrying the other hon. Minister. Is the hon. Minister in order?

Mr Speaker: I think that, even within the echelons of seniority, there is also relativity. So, I think he is in order.

Laughter

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, this is a very wonderful programme you have put in place. My concern is after the planting. What measures are you going to put in place to ensure that we sustain these trees or conserve them?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, that is an important question. I said that, in Phase I, which will be about raising seedlings and planting them, we shall employ 6, 000 people, on average. However, going forward, we have put measures in place to start looking after the trees. That is where the 200, 000 jobs that I talked about will come from. We want to have forest rangers, the famous kapenda mabulas. We are going to beef up our Forest Department so that, wherever these trees are planted, we will be making follow-ups. Also, we are going to engage the local communities and motivate them to not only to plant, but also look after the trees. We will also be inspecting them and make funds available so that the trees to be planted will be looked after. That programme is also there and we are calling it Phase II.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, let me also join my colleagues who have congratulated the hon. Minister for this long overdue measure which has been announced today. 

Mr Speaker, what is the specific timeframe, particularly, for the Kaoma-Lukulu Corridor, which is the most affected part in this country? Unfortunately, it is also remote and rural, and we wanted this measure enforced yesterday.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, the ban is with immediate effect. The provincial and district offices and the law enforcement agencies are instructed to immediately enforce the ban, especially in your area.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, in his statement, the hon. Minister said that the Government is going to have an out-growers scheme for nurseries and will purchase trees from these nurseries at K500 each. Considering that the price on the open market, for example for mangoes, is, currently, at K5, 000 per tree, how does he hope to convince the traders to sell to the Government at K500?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, there are two aims for this programme. We want to involve everybody, especially our tree planters. There is also the issue of the law of demand and supply. Currently, a lot of people are just planting trees as individuals. However, with the impetus from the Government, people will be encouraged to grow more. By the way, the K500 is not per tree, but per seedling. If, for example, Hon. Kakoma has 1kg, which is equivalent to a million seedlings as they are very small, and he plants today and, after a week, has a million seedlings, when he multiplies that by K500, it is more money in his pocket. It is the seedlings we are paying for, and I think that it will put enough revenue in the pockets of our people.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mwila: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwila: I rise on a very serious procedural point of order now that the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) has lost the Mufumbwe …

Mr Muntanga: Question!

Mr Mwila: … Parliamentary By-election in the North-Western Province. You will recall that I had raised a point of order with regard to whether it was in order for the MMD, as a party, to continue holding the position of Leader of the Opposition in the House, because the party did not meet the required number of seats, which is fifty-three. Your ruling then was that we wait for the two by-elections in Muchinga and Chama North. After the by-elections, we won one seat and the number of MMD seats came to fifty-two. With the loss of Mufumbwe, it now has fifty-one seats. Is it in order for the MMD to continue holding the same position, yet it has not met the required number? Mr Speaker, you did not make a ruling then. Therefore, today, I need your serious ruling. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

I will come back to the House with a formal ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, I want to thank the people of Mufumbwe for their landmark decision. 

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned Mpulungu and Kaputa in his statement, and I appreciate that. Luwingu had a forest plantation where a morden prison has been built. I want to find out from the hon. Minister whether there is a plan for Luwingu to be given another plantation.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the hon. Member of Parliament that this programme we have started is not a one-off event because the ultimate aim is to restore our natural resource to the level it used to be. We are in a process of looking at all our forest reserves in order to restore or increase their size. Definitely, if we have a forest reserve that has been disturbed somewhere, we are going to find extra land for a new one or take measures to restore it to what it was. I also wish to let you know that in the Northern Province and other areas, the NTPP will cheer the beekeepers because their revenue will go up and they will have more money in their pockets.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ngo’nga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, may I join the many hon. Members that have congratulated the hon. Minister for the well-presented ministerial statement. 

Mr Speaker, as you may be aware, the biggest enemy to tree seedling plantations are the termites, subterranean ones or those that eat the plant from above. I want to ask the hon. Minister whether there are measures in place to protect this enormous number of seedlings from damage which can disrupt the whole programme if it is not attended to.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, yes, I can confirm that we have put measures in place. We have empowered our Provincial Forest Offices and the District Forest Offices to protect the seedlings. There are qualified and experienced foresters in these offices. They shall supervise and monitor the tree planting exercise. If there is a need for spraying or any technical advice, the provincial and district forest officials will be available. We have given them the capacity to do so.

I thank you, Sir.

CO-HOSTING OF THE UNWTO WITH ZIMBABWE

The Minister of Tourism and Art (Mrs Masebo): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to give a statement on the preparations for the co-hosting of the Twentieth Session of the United Nations World Tourism Organisation (UNWTO) General Assembly in August 2013.

Mr Speaker, as Chairperson for Elections for the Patriotic Front (PF), it would be unusual for me not to use this opportunity to thank the people of Mufumbwe …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: … for giving the PF an opportunity to implement its manifesto.

Mr Speaker, the Government, through the Ministry of Tourism and Art, has partnered with the Government of the Republic of Zimbabwe through their Ministry of Tourism and Hospitality Industry to jointly host the Twentieth Session of the next World Tourism Organisation General Assembly in August, 2013 in Livingstone, and Victoria Falls Town citing the Victoria Falls as the destination.

Mr Speaker, as you are aware, the countries proudly share the mighty Victoria Falls; a renowned United Nations Education and Scientific Organisation (UNESCO) world heritage site and one of the seven wonders of the world. The Victoria Falls are located on the Zambezi River, which is the fourth longest river in Africa. It lies within the Mosi-O- Tunya National Park in Zambia. The Victoria Falls stretches 1.7 km across the Zambezi River of which1.2 km is on the Zambian side while 500 metres is on the Zimbabwean side.

Mr Speaker, this event will be co-hosted at the prestigious Sun International Resort in Livingstone, which is located on the banks of the Zambezi River and within the vicinity of the Victoria Falls. In Zimbabwe, it will be held at the Elephant Hills Resort in Victoria Falls Town. It will be held next year from 24th to 29th August, 2013.

Mr Speaker, the World Tourism Organisation (WTO) is the United Nations agency responsible for the promotion of responsible, sustainable and universally accessible tourism. The organisation was established in 1974 and Zambia became a member a year later in 1975.

Mr Speaker, the UNWTO is the leading international organisation in the field of tourism, and promotes tourism as the driver of economic growth, inclusive development and environmental sustainability. It also offers leadership and support to the sector in advancing knowledge and tourism policies worldwide. The UNWTO encourages the implementation of the Global Code of Ethics for Tourism in order to maximise tourism’s socio-economic contribution while minimising its possible negative impacts. The organisation is committed to promoting tourism as an instrument in achieving the millennium development goals (MDGs) geared towards reducing poverty and fostering sustainable development. This August House may further wish to know that the UNWTO generates market knowledge and promotes competitive and sustainable tourism policies and instruments. It fosters tourism training and works to make tourism an effective tool for development through technical assistance projects in over 100 countries around the world. 

Mr Speaker, the main priorities of the UNWTO are:

(i)mainstreaming tourism in the global agenda;

(ii)improving tourism competitiveness;

(iii)promoting sustainable tourism development;

(iv)advancing tourism contribution towards poverty reduction and development; and

(v)fostering knowledge, education and capacity building and building partnerships.{mospagebreak}

Mr Speaker, the UNWTO brings together the international tourism community, including all spheres of governments, private sector, academia and civil society in order to promote competitive and sustainable tourism development. As an inter-governmental organisation, the UNWTO has 155 member States, seven territories, two permanent observers and over 400 affiliate members from the tourism private sector. Full membership is open to all sovereign states and associate membership is open to all territories not responsible for their external relations. In recognition of the role of the non governmental sector in driving tourism growth, UNWTO membership is also open to a wide range of organisations and companies working in tourism. This structure is unique within the United Nations system. Any company, public or private, non governmental sector, education institutions or entities involved in tourism activities can become UNWTO affiliate members. Members currently include major airlines, travel agents, regional or local promotion boards, hotel groups, universities, business schools, trade unions, technology companies, training centres and research companies, among others.

Mr Speaker, membership to the UNWTO carries benefits and a wide variety of services, including access to UNWTO market intelligence, e-library, UNWTO publications and priority invitations to UNWTO events, among other possibilities. Most importantly, members have an opportunity to achieve strategic partnerships between the public and the private sector through the various platforms provided by the organisation.

Sir, the UNWTO General Assembly is the supreme organ of the organisation. It consists of six regional commissions, namely Regional Commission for Americas, Regional Commission for Europe, Regional Commission for South Asia, Regional Commission for Africa, Regional Commission for East Africa and the Pacific and Regional Commission for Middle East.

Mr Speaker, the General Assembly holds its ordinary sessions every two years. The General Assembly brings together all the members of the organisation to debate and approve the bi-annual programme of work and budget of the organisation and review issues of particular importance to the tourism sector. It is the most important and high profile meeting of ministers, high level Government officials, senior representatives from the UN, and prominent leaders from the corporate world. Other international organisations participate as observers. Most countries travel with their media delegates, drawing to the General Assembly host country over thousands of visitors.

Sir, hosting of the General Assembly rotates among the six regions. Nineteen General Assemblies have been held since the UNWTO was established in 1974. Of these, only two have previously been held in Africa in Egypt in 1995 and Senegal in 2005. Zambia and Zimbabwe decided to present a joint bid in which they demonstrated the two countries’ commitment and readiness to host the 20th Session of the UNWTO General Assembly in 2013.

Mr Speaker, the House may also wish to know that SADC, through its ministers responsible for tourism, endorsed the joint bid at the Southern African Development Community (SADC) Ministers of Tourism Meeting in 2011, in Livingstone, for submission to the UNWTO General Assembly.The 19thSession of the UNWTO General Assembly which was held in South Korea unanimously accepted the joint bid.

Sir, it is now, therefore, that Southern Africa has attained this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to bring the 20th Session of the UNWTO General Assembly to its region, riding on the successes of the mega international events such as the 2011 World Cup and the 2011 All Africa Games.

Mr Speaker, it is our goal to position not only Zambia and Zimbabwe, but the whole of Southern Africa as a notable tourism destination. Indeed, the two countries have been given an opportunity to show that the world can use tourism to build bridges and create a global village.

Sir, the two governments signed a Memorandum of Understanding which outlines the framework for co-operation in May, 2012. The terms of the bilateral co-hosting agreement include a division of the meetings to be held in either country during the five days. Therefore, Zimbabwe will host the opening ceremony, the plenary sessions, and these will be for three regional commissions, namely the Commission for Africa, the Commission for East Asia and the Pacific, the Regional Commission for the Middle East. Zimbabwe will also host a cocktail function. They will also host a council session and a general meeting of affiliate members. They will host a luncheon for the heads of delegation and some side workshops.

Mr Speaker, Zambia, on the other side, will host the ministerial round table. Zambia will also have three plenary sessions for the following regional commissions:

(i) Regional Commission for Europe;

(ii)Regional Commission for the Americas; and

(iii)Regional Commission for South Asia.

In addition, Zambia will host the joint meeting of the committees on the Budget and Finance and the Programme Committee. Zambia will also host a board meeting of affiliate members. It will host a gala dinner and a series of side workshops, just like Zimbabwe, and the official closing ceremony.

Sir, the two countries have opportunities to organise side meetings that will take place during the course of the five days. It is our expectation that our private sector will rise up to the challenge and use the social events as an opportunity for showcasing the tourism products and to foster the African Tourism Agenda.

Mr Speaker, the House may further be informed that the two countries have also been given the opportunity to provide pre and post-conference tour packages which will be sent out together with the information note to members States of the General Assembly.This is a targeted marketing strategy which will be at no cost to the host governments.

Sir, the trilateral hosting agreement which sets out the responsibilities of the host countries and those of the UNWTO, in respect of the conference was signed among the three parties on 29th May, 2012, by the two Heads of States. His Excellency Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, President of the Republic of Zambia and his counterpart from Zimbabwe, His Excellency Comrade Robert Mugabe and the UNWTO Secretary General, Mr Taleb Rifai, on the Victoria Falls Bridge on ‘No Man’s Land’.

Mr Speaker, the historic signing of the trilateral agreement was given further prominence by the two Heads of State signing an agreement to promote sustainable development of tourism in their respective countries.

Sir, Zambia has been provided with the unique opportunity to leverage its tourism resources to promote the country as a key tourism destination within the Southern African Region. Co-hosting the 20th Session of the UNWTO General Assembly will enable the country expand its meetings, incentives, conferences and exhibitions (MICE) markets in both regional and international markets.This will be achieved through the networks and strategic partnerships that will be established and enhanced during the event.

Mr Speaker, the showcasing of Zambia and Livingstone in particular, as a successful host of such a prestigious event will unlock tourism opportunities for Zambia. It will create a platform for sustained growth and development through increased meetings, incentives, conferences and exhibitions, tourism development and, indeed, access to the global markets.

Sir, the august House may wish to know that conference tourism is a very lucrative product that is not easily prone to shocks such as the economic recession still being experienced in major tourism generating countries, and which has directly impacted leisure tourism for many tourism destinations. This is because business tourists, unlike their leisure counterparts, are more resilient and tend to travel even during periods of recession because their expenses are borne by their organisations rather than by themselves.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Masebo: Mr Speaker, during periods of economic decline, leisure tourists rather put off travel completely due to competing needs and will prefer to visit tourism destinations within their own countries or destinations closer to home.

Sir, another important characteristic of business travellers is the ability to return to the destination after the event with their families for leisure activities. We expect, therefore, that a good percentage of the delegates of the 20th Session of the UNWTO General Assembly will find Zambia appealing enough to warrant their return for many years to come.

Mr Speaker, the co-hosting of the 20th Session of the UNWTO General Assembly in August next year, is a strategy to draw attention to Zambia’s destination appeal as well as its ability to host international events of such magnitude. The assembly will also provide business opportunities for the locals to derive direct benefits in areas such as employment creation, entrepreneurship, creative industries and overall, stimulate economic activity in Livingstone and through multi-effects, to the rest of the country. It is an important milestone in attaining the vision to enhance the status of Livingstone as Zambia’s tourist capital.

Mr Speaker, preparations for the event next year are happening at two levels, bilaterally with Zimbabwe and at national level through the ministry responsible for tourism and arts. On a bilateral level we have two committees. There is the ministerial committee which is headed by the two hon. Ministers from Zambia and Zimbabwe and the technical committee consisting of the two permanent secretaries and their technical officers. 

Sir, at a national level, the institutional framework to manage the preparatory activities for the co-hosting of the 20th session of the UNWTO Assembly has now been put in place in line with Governments decision to declare the co-hosting a national event. A national committee structure has since been established to ensure that all the resources of the Government are leveraged towards the successful co-hosting of the event.

The framework comprises: a committee of hon. Ministers from various relevant sector ministries and chaired by His Honour the Vice-President who provides policy direction for the preparations; a ministerial committee, which is an internal committee, to provide leadership and guidance over the preparations for the co-hosting which is at the Ministry of Tourism and Arts; a national steering committee to provide oversight on the preparation, which is a national committee consisting of a number of permanent secretaries; a local organising committee based in Livingstone to implement the programmes and activities of the national steering committee and two dedicated secretariats in both Livingstone and Lusaka to provide administrative support and co-ordinate the work of the committees.
Mr Speaker, the following are the subcommittees which are chaired by the relevant permanent secretaries:

    (a)    tourism, arts and culture;

    (b)    conference events and protocol;

    (c)    transport, logistics and infrastructure;

    (d)    information, communication and publicity;

    (e)    health and green issues

    (f)    investment opportunities;

    (g)    finance, budgets and procurement; and 

  (h)    local organising committee.

Mr Speaker, hosting a meeting of such a magnitude requires improved facilities ranging from accommodation, roads, public amenities, border facilities and procedures, security, health services, transport and logistics, information and technology communication, just to mention a few.

Mr Speaker, it is in this regard that I am pleased to inform this august House that the through the co-hosting of the upcoming event, the Government is undertaking infrastructure development projects in the preparation for the co-hosting. Some of these are the construction of an intercity bus terminus at Villa Grounds in Livingstone, a modern market at the city centre and three public ablution blocks within Livingstone Town.

Sir, in order to improve tourist flow, the three land border posts, namely Victoria Falls, Kazungula and Katima Mulilo borders are being computerised and improved. They will also be improvements of facilities at the Harry Mwaanga Nkhumbula and the Kenneth Kaunda International airports. There will be improvements of infrastructure at the Mosi-O-Tunya National Park and the Victoria Falls. Further, there will be improvements of the facilities at the Livingstone Museum and Victoria Falls. There will also be the construction of an arts gallery, cultural villages and identification of creative industries.

Hon. Member: Maramba Village.

Mrs Masebo: Yes, Maramba Village is one of them.

We will also enhance the tourism marketing by constructing permanent tourist information kiosks at the Kenneth Kaunda and Harry Mwanga Nkhumbula International airports. We will have semi-permanent kiosks at the Victoria Falls Border Post and mobile kiosks at Simon Mwansa Kapwepwe International Airport and Kazungula Border Post.

Mr Speaker, these projects were costed by the relevant departments and the Government has since approved supplementary funding of K150 billion for the capital projects out of which K40 billion was released in October. Our plan is to complete all these works by June 2013. Of course, we hope to complete some of the works much earlier. To show its commitment, the Government provided K5.8 billion in the 2012 Yellow Book which has also since been released and K15 billion has been provided in the 2013 Budget Estimates specifically for the UNWTO Conference.

Mr Speaker, in an effort to create awareness of the upcoming event and the involvement of the local community in Livingstone, meetings were held with various stakeholder groups. These included street vendors, taxi operators, tour operates, hotel, lodge and guest house operates, marketeers, various groups in the arts fraternity and community-based organisations.

Sir, a count down to mark 365 days to the event was launched at the one-stop shop in Livingstone on the eve of 24th August, 2012, to create local awareness and foster destination participation. Tourism investment promotions were conducted in collaboration with other stakeholders in Livingstone, Copperbelt, New York, Tokyo and Soul to create awareness on the tourism potential and existing investment opportunities. Livingstone will also be host to an international investment forum on the 29th and 30th November 2012 which is being organised by the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry.

Mr Speaker, we undertook a visit to the UNTWO Headquaters in Madrid Spain, to strengthen bilateral relations between Zambia and the UNWTO. We have also participated in the UNWTO executive counsel meetings. Although Zambia is not a member, we were given a chance because we are co-hosting this event and my Deputy Minister Hon. Phiri represented Zambia. We are attending the World Travel Market Tourism event which is ongoing and Hon. Phiri is representing Zambian in the United Kingdom. All these are efforts intended to encourage member states to come to Zambia and Zimbabwe next year as well as to advertise our tourism products.

Mr Speaker, in order to upgrade the standards of our accommodation services in Livingstone, an inspection exercise was launched. This exercise will be completed by the end of November this year as a first step in preparation for classification and grading. The target is to ensure that a minimum of fifty establishments meet the minimum standards of operations in their categories and will be graded by the first quarter of 2013. This will give establishments which fail to meet minimum standards some time to rehabilitate and upgrade their facilities before the UNTWO event is held next year. You will note, for example, that Sun International Hotel has been rehabilitated. It looks very beautiful.

Mr Speaker, the Government has also provided tax incentives to the private sector by suspending the customs and excess regulations for licensed tourism enterprises from October 2012, to 31st December, 2013. These incentives are open not only for Livingstone operators, but also for the rest of the country and have further provided opportunities for entrepreneurs to establish tourism enterprises. The onus is now upon the Zambian people to use this avenue to create wealth and employment through the tourism business.

Mr Speaker, the preparatory activities that we are undertaking are assessed by the UNWTO Headquarters on a regular basis. I am pleased to inform the House that two preliminary visits were made by experts from the headquarters in Spain. Their findings were positive.

 Sir, the House may also wish to know that the 2013 UNWTO General Assembly will be hosted on a free visa basis and security officials are working on providing express transfer of delegates between the two countries. The House may also wish to know that the two borders will be opened for 24 hours during the event. The two countries have since come up with a common mascot. It is made up of an African drum with a slogan. The mascot will be part of the promotional materials for the event.

Mr Speaker, I wish to end by stating that our legacy to the people of Livingstone and indeed, the nation as a whole, will be to transform the city into an international renowned tourism flagship destination with all the complementary service that will attract other sectors such as sport to host their events in Livingstone.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement issued by the hon. Minister of Tourism and Art. 

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, let me start by congratulating the PF for winning the Mufumbwe seat.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, I want to state that the MMD Government started the process. We are happy that the PF has continued to work towards the successful hosting of the UNWTO event. 

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: Sir, in view of the fact that Zambia is considered to be a very high cost destination, especially in the hospitality sub-sector, what mechanism is in place to ensure that Zambia will be competitive as compared to Zimbabwe so that the Zambian people can benefit from the hosting of this very important conference?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, first of all, I want to say that whilst it may be said that Zambia is a very expensive destination, when you really compare it with other countries, you will notice that that the situation is not as bad as it sounds.

Sir, we have also selected about nine specific hotels which shall be used by the delegates to the event. These five, four, three and zero star hotels. These have formed a committee that will look at their pricing mechanism during the hosting of the UNWTO event. They will also take into account what Zimbabwe will be charging during that period. They will ensure that Zambia remains competitive. 

Mr Speaker, in addition, the Government through this year’s Budget has put in place tax incentives for the hospitality industrywhich will allow the operators toimport materials that would help them improve on their hotels and lodges. This will help those who are in the hospitality industry to improve theservices that they are offering. Those are the two important steps that have been taken.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Matafwali (Bangweulu): Mr Speaker, there have been some assertions from a cross -section of individuals and institutions that whilst our friends on the Zimbabwean side seem to be much more ready, we are actually not ready for this event. What is the hon. Minister’s comment on this?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I want to use this opportunity to tell the Zambians that it is not true that Zimbabwe is in any way more prepared than Zambia. The difference between Zimbabwe and Zambia is that Zimbabweans know how to market themselves. They have good public relations. In Zambia, you like to shoot yourselves in your feet. You do not even know what is in Zimbabwe. I am not trying to damage the image of our colleagues considering that we will be co-hosting this event with them.  I want to tell you that Zambia has even released resources from the National Treasury to prepare for the UNWTO event. I mentioned that the experts have been here twice. They will come back at the end of December or early next year. Each time they visit us, they give us benchmarks which we have been meeting. When people say that Zambia is not ready, I just laugh and say, “There goes the Zambian ‘PHD’ syndrome.”

Laughter

Mrs Masebo: Sir, people talk about what they do not even understand. My only regret is that we have not done enough as the ministry to sensitise our people. That is why you will notice that this ministerial statement was very long. I think that we have an obligation to give a lot of information to the people. I would like to use this opportunity to urge our media to help us. Now that we have these permanent committees in place, the information and publicity portfolio has been given to the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting. We hope that through these Permanent Cabinet Inter-Ministerial Committees, we will see more information going out to the public.

Sir, apart from that, we have been given a lot of money. The other day, the United Party for National Development (UPND) President was even grumbling instead of thanking us for releasing a lot of money. You should find out how much has been released in Zimbabwe. The only advantage is that Zimbabwe is an older tourism resort when compared to Zambia because Livingstone was only declared a tourism capital under the PF Government…

Interruptions

Mrs Masebo: …and we are beginning to work on improving its image. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Mr Speaker, I stand to ask a follow-up question to the previous one with facts. On page 5 of The Postnewspaper, dated 9th November, 2012, there is a headline which states, “Zambia not ready for UNWTO”. Mr Fredrick Chituta, Director of Zambia Institute of Marketing was quoted as having said that when speaking to journalists during the 16th Annual Marketing Conference. I, therefore, need a comment from the hon. Minister regarding that statement.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, that is exactly what I said. The only blame I can give to myself as the hon. Minister of Tourism and Art is that we have not had an effective awareness campaign. I think that hon. Members will appreciate that in the last three months of being hon. Minister of Tourism and Art, I have done a lot to make the country reach the level at which it is in terms of preparing for the event. I have even been going around the country so as to put certain things on the ground. For the benefit of those doubting Thomases that get information without reference, let me use this opportunity to say that the National Airports Corporation Limited (NACL) has been funded for various activities. 

Sir, at Harry Mwaanga Nkumbula Airport, the re-flooring of existing arrival halls is going to cost K7.5 billion, the upgrading of the car park and landscaping is going to cost K5 billion and the construction of the Harry MwaangaNkumbula statue will cost us K300 million. 

Currently, they have already started improving the international arrival halls. The Zambia Public Procurement Authority (ZPPA) is, actually, in the process of approving the other works. One of the areas where we are having a challenge is that we are trying to avoid single-sourcing, even if the law allow us to do so. We have instructed all the Government departments to follow the ZPPA procedures. 

Sir, the Immigration Department has already procured software licences for the networking of the site and air conditioners at K47 million.

Mr Speaker, the National Heritage Conservation Commission (NHCC) has already received resources for various activities, including the construction of ablution blocks and change rooms, and installation of water systems and security lights at the Victoria Falls. So, there are various activities that are being undertaken by the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA), National Arts Council (NAC) and the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA). For example, the ZRA is undertaking the construction of loading bays and shelters, and paving the bus station and taxi ranks at the Victoria Falls Border Post. This will cost us K3.5 billion.

Mr Speaker, let me tell the Zambian people that we are on course, and their role, especially the hon. Members of Parliament, should be to help us by disseminating this information and working out mechanisms of ensuring that the people in the constituencies are able to participate in one way or the other. For instance, the tax rebates can only be accessed by people in the tourism sector. Therefore, they have to register as small tourism cooperatives and get the necessary licences which will enable them to even import a safari van to use for ferrying visitors who will be coming for that event.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, first and foremost, I think that it is not good to listen to yourself. The question raised was on why we are not publicising. The other day, the hon. Minister of Tourism from Zimbabwe was on the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) talking about this same event and there was no mention of Zambia. He simply mentioned that the event was going to be held in Zimbabwe at the Victoria Falls. When will the hon. Minister realise that her job is to market Zambia and inform the world that Zambia is a better place, unlike her telling us about the construction of ablution blocks.

Laughter

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I know that the hon. Opposition Members are bitter because they have lost a by-election.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: However, let me say that, unless one does not read or has not heard that, in the last one month, I have been to the UN in New York and held meetings with the business community, inviting them to come for the UNWTO Conference and to invest in Zambia. 

Hon. Opposition Member: That is under the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry.

Mrs Masebo: I also accompanied His Excellency to …

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Do not debate while seated.

Mrs Masebo: I also went to Tokyo where we, again, held high-level meetings through the visit by His Excellency. From there, we went to South Korea where we were trying to benchmark considering that Korea hosted the 19th Conference of the UNWTO. All that was in an effort to market Zambia. 

Sir, I also went to the Secretariat to get the people there to help us, and there are a number of programmes that are coming to Zambia as a result of all those visits. My hon. Deputy Minister is not in the House, but in London marketing Zambia. The fact that you heard the hon. Minister of Tourism from Zimbabwe talking about Zimbabwe just shows that our friends know how to sell themselves. The problem is that we have the tendency of criticising each other. Instead of informing the public of the efforts that I made by going to the UN, you are telling me that I have not done my job simply because I was in Mufumbwe and we have beaten you to the ground.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, the marketing of Zambia does not require the efforts of one individual, but everybody’s, especially those who have been elected. What has the hon. Member for Kalomo Central done in his constituency since this issue started apart from rising on points of order?

Laughter

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, just here, in Zambia, I have been to different places, which include the Copperbelt and Livingstone. I have said that, through the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, we will have an international conference in Livingstone. There will be a number of international visitors who will come and we will continue with the marketing of Zambia. 

Sir, marketing is an expensive venture and, if you look at the Budget, you will see that there is political will and finances have been allocated. What is remaining is for all of us to work together and ensure that we all benefit. It is not only about President Sata, Hon. Masebo or the PF, but for the benefit of Zambia. So, for once, let us all work together.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Monde (Ithezhi-tezhi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned some billions in the 2012 Budget that have been released. For example, there is 5.8 billion which has been released while, next year, there will be about K15 billion, tax rebates, free visas and other incentives that have been put in place for this conference. Could she state whether there is a financial benefit to the country after spending such billions of kwacha.  

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, the Opposition hon. Members who come from Southern Province and, to be specific, Livingstone are the biggest beneficiaries of the PF’s work in this whole arrangement. Livingstone is currently having capital projects. The road network is being worked on and money has already been released. The Road Development Agency (RDA) is already tarring some roads, the water supply is being improved. The lighting systems, markets, bus stations and, generally, the whole infrastructure will improve.

Sir, the benefits will go to the people of Zambia. All these capital projects are creating employment because the people who are doing the jobs are putting money in people’s pockets through contracts, sub-contracts, employing casual workers and other activities. Those are immediate benefits but, most importantly, apart from that, for seven days, Zambia will be in the spotlight during that event. I have said that the visitors will come with journalists who will write. For instance, they may go to Kalomo and speak to the hon. Member of that area about amethyst and, through that discussion, there will be a good picture of him that might circulate in London and, afterwards, we may see investors coming to Kalomo. All those will be benefits.

Laughter

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, in addition to that …

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to talk about Kalomo, which is 180 kilometres away from Livingstone, and not talk about what she is going to do with marketing Zambia.

Mr Speaker: I earnestly think that she is not out of order. She is merely indicating possibilities and if we can exploit these possibilities, why not? I do not see anything out order in that sense. 

The hon. Minister may continue. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, Kalomo has beautiful amethysts which we want to display in Livingstone so that, when people come, they will know about all the minerals Zambia has and, later, invest in mining in Kalomo. That would be a benefit. 

Mr Speaker, the co-hosting has already put Zambia on the world map. In those seven days, the benefits will not be monetary.  We will not get K7 billion on day one and maybe K20 billion the next day. I am talking about the after-effects of the conference. The benefits will be long-term and will be realised long after the end of the conference. We are not looking to now, but the future. Let us be positive, ladies and gentlemen, and work together. Let us market Zambia together. 

In fact, Hon. Muntanga is a very good marketer. 

Laughter 

Mrs Masebo: He would do well to help us market tourism in Zambia. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, this topic is very good. I wish it was a Motion. 

Sir, Kazungula District chiefs constitute part of the tourism attraction package for Livingstone. Our royal establishments are worth visiting during this event. That being so, is there a deliberate incentive put in place to sort out issues of infrastructure and other matters, specifically for Kazungula District royal establishments so as to benefit Zambia during the period we will host the eventful conference? 

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, on a very serious note, you noticed how I belaboured a very long statement in order to give details of the meaning of UNWTO. That was deliberate. When you understand what this organisation and its General Assembly are all about, and if you are a thinker, you will begin to have ideas. I went further to talk about the incentives that the PF Government has put in place for you to put money in the pockets of the people of Kazungula. 

Mr Speaker, at Kazungula Border, there was incomplete infrastructure which was started by our colleagues. Money was released, about three or four months ago, to complete the construction of that facility. All this has been done quickly because of the conference. Therefore, the confusion at the border posts will be an issue of the past. In this case, I am referring to the Katimamulilo, Kazungula and Victoria Falls border posts. There are chaos at these posts because of lack of good facilities. However, because of the conference, facilities are being put in place. 

Mr Speaker, I appeal to hon. Members of Parliament to come up with good suggestions because they are part of this Government. I have given them this information and they now understand what the UNWTO is all about. I am prepared to work with them and willing to go to their constituencies and do anything within my powers, as a human being, to support them. 

Mr Speaker, if hon. Members have something in their constituencies that can be developed as a tourism product, they can come to the ministry and we will consider the product in the budget line we have for tourism product identification and development. I cannot be in all the 150 constituencies effectively. Some of the tourism sites have not even been identified yet. If you have nyau or witchcraft which you want to display, we can enhance them because they are part of culture and tradition. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr L. J. Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has placed on record that the Government has identified nine hotels for accommodation of delegates during the conference period. Apart from Sun International and Protea, what other hotels have been identified? 

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, maybe, the hon. Member for Livingstone can help me there. There is the Zambezi Sun, the Royal Livingstone Hotel, the David Livingstone Spar and Lodge, which has been declared one of the best in Africa, – the Managing Director recently went to collect an award – Protea Hotel, Wasawange Lodge, Chrismar, Courtyard and Fallsway Hotels. 

Mr Speaker, in terms of accommodation, Zimbabwe and Zambia have sufficient quality accommodation. We are working with our counterparts to ensure that hoteliers give good rates because, during that period, their hotels and lodges will be fully-booked for the seven days of the event and, probably, before and after. One other challenge we are trying very hard to surmount is is the packaging of other products so that we can get visitors before and after the actual event, and connect Livingstone to other areas, such as Kasanka Conservancy and the water falls in Northern Province. Maybe, Hon. Muntanga can direct me somewhere in Kalomo where I can take visitors, too. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Dr Kalila (Lukulu east): Mr Speaker, everybody knows that first impressions are very important. 

We have just been told that the opening ceremony will be hosted by Zimbabwe. This means that all the delegates, on their very first meeting, will be gathered in Zimbabwe. Psychologically, for them, this means that, probably, Zambia is just being carried on the back by Zimbabwe. I am assuming that this is probably as a result of our lack of superb or premier conferencing facilities. 

The hon. Minister highlighted interventions, mostly, renovations to ablution blocks, markets and border posts, but I did not hear any intervention in the construction of a premier conferencing facility which, in the long term, by her own admission, is a more sustainable way of enhancing tourism, rather than leisure tourism. 

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, it is not correct to say that the official opening of this conference will be on the Zimbabwean side because that country has better facilities. It just had to be done somewhere. These issues were looked at during the negotiations by those who went to negotiate. 

Mr Speaker, I mentioned that the composition of the UNWTO General Assembly is divided into six commissions. Out of these six, three will be holding their plenary meetings on the Zimbabwean side and the other three on the Zambian side. A similar event to the official opening, the official closing, will be held on the Zambian side. I agree that first impressions are important. When we compare the venue grounds for the Sun International Hotel here, in Zambia, and the venue grounds for the Elephant Hills Hotel in Zimbabwe, we will agree that we have a more beautiful site. Personally, I would host the official opening of the conference at the Sun International. That point, therefore, is neither here nor there. It is incorrect. The hon. Member can compare the grounds for himself and I can assure him that will come and tell me that Sun International, as a venue, cannot compete with the Elephant Hills venue. 

The difference between Zimbabwe and Zambia is that Zimbabweans are very aggressive and nationalistic. However, we, Zambians are always criticising ourselves and are not patriotic. That is where the difference is. If we were patriotic, I do not think there is any country in Africa that could beat us because we have so much to offer. There is a need for a change of mindset.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I intend to close this debate at 1045 hours, therefore, hon. Minister, please, make your responses brief.

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, I am glad that there is, indeed, transformation in Livingstone and the Southern Province as a whole. The seven days that we will co-host this tourism event is quite critical and the hon. Minister has highlighted quite a lot of issues. However, may I find out what exactly is happening in the health sector considering that the numbers of people will be quite many.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, give you answer briefly so that we may have more interventions.

Hon. Members: Yes!

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, briefly, the Government through the Ministry of Health is upgrading a hospital facility in Livingstone in preparation for the UNWTO event. Secondly, a mobile hospital will be upgraded to Level II and will be stationed near the venue of the event in case of any eventualities. Thirdly, the Ministry of Health will, hopefully, by December, be able to work with the World Health Organisation (WHO) to remove the restriction on entry which requires one to have a Yellow Fever Certificate. Fourthly, the ministry is also working on a programme to ensure that Livingstone has a clean and good environment which will have an impact on health.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, what is the expected number of attendants and out of these, how many are we expecting to accommodate here in Zambia?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, looking at the 155 member states, we are hoping that, if each member state were to come, it would bring a team of five or six and also bring along journalists. So, in terms of official delegates, we are looking at 1,000. However, besides the official delegates, we will also have visitors and are looking at hosting 2,000 in Zambia and 2,000 in Zimbabwe.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Belemu (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, those of us who have attended the UNWTO General Assembly clearly know that all the events that Zimbabwe is hosting are the plenary ones while Zambia is hosting the low key ones. May I find out what the challenges were when negotiating with Zimbabwe. What is the problem in short?

Mrs Masebo. Mr Speaker, the guy …

Laughter

Mrs Masebo: Sorry, Sir.

The hon. Member who has asked me that question used to work for the Zambia National Tourist Board (ZTB). You heard the former minister of tourism trying to say they were the ones that started this. That is where the problem was. The beginning of this whole process was not intelligently executed. When we came into the picture, it was too late to make any changes.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, I think I would suggest to the hon. Minister that next time, she should do more listening than talking. The question that Hon. Muntanga asked was advisory in nature. All of us listened to your counterpart from Zimbabwe, the Minister of Tourism and there was no mention of Zambia or the Victoria Falls in his speech. This is the advice we are trying to give you. The question was: Now that …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1045 hours until 1100 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I was making a passionate appeal to the hon. Minister, considering that I am the last man to speak on this matter, that …

Mr Speaker: Could you ask your question, please.

Mr Mbulakulima: The question is …

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Tourism and Art in order to say that the people who negotiated for the hosting of this event did not do it intelligently, meaning that they are not intelligent and, at this point, she was referring to the MMD, and yet the negotiations were done by the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs, Hon. Given Lubinda, who was the Ministry of Tourism and Art at that time and was believed to have done a good job. Is she in order not to have referred this matter to her fellow hon. Minister and accuse him of being unintelligent in negotiating for the hosting of this event? 

I need your ruling, Sir.

Mr Speaker: My short ruling is that, as the hon. Minister winds up debate on this very important statement, she should seize that opportunity to clarify that particular point raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalomo Central.

May the hon. Member of Parliament for Chembe, please, ask his question.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, before I was interrupted by that point of order, I was saying that, like hon. Muntanga, I also listened to the BBC broadcast and did not hear the hon. Minister of Tourism for Zimbabwe mention Zambia being the co-host or the Victoria Falls being in the two countries. What we are saying is that now that Zimbabwe …

Mr Speaker: What is your question hon. Member? I am afraid I have to intervene.

Mr Mbulakulima: Yes, Mr Speaker, I am saying that now that Zimbabwe has proved kuichaila on this matter, meaning do it for yourself, …

Laughter

Hon. Members: Kuichaila!

Mr Mbulakulima: … is there anything Zambia is doing underground in terms of marketing? I know that the hon. Deputy Minister of Tourism and Art has gone some country. We seem to be playing an open game while Zimbabwe is playing an underground game. Is there anything we are doing to market our country silently? Is that what you are doing hon. Minister?

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, I am aware you did answer that question at length. Just sum up what you said.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, Zambia has always been a very honourable country when it comes to relations with its neighbour, and does not do anything underground. I think my statement speaks for itself that Zambia has a good name internationally. At the moment, the commissions which have been coming to Zambia are very excited about coming here. Therefore, we have no problem. As to the style of marketing by the Zimbabwean Minister where you said he neither mentioned the Victoria Falls nor Zambia, I think that is for the international world, including yourselves, to judge. My job is to call upon you, as hon. Members of Parliament, to join in the marketing of Zambia.

Sir, since you said that I should sum up and should take into account the point of order that was raised, I wish to say that earlier, there was a point that was raised by an hon. Member on your left, who boasted that this event was actually started by them. All I was saying was that in the initial bidding, if you do not bid in a manner that will be to your advantage, then there is nothing that one who is going to do the implementation, whether it is Hon. Lubinda, Hon. Masebo or Hon. Tembo can do. What we are going to implement is whatever was agreed to. 

Sir, I also know for a fact that the choosing of which commissions should come to Zambia and where the official opening or closing was done by a toss of a coin. I know that. However, the question was general and my answer was general. That is my view point, Mr Speaker, and I think I am entitled to it.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

___________

HIS HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, immediately the Patriotic Front (PF) Government came into office, a number of Commissions of Inquiry were constituted. The President as well as His Honour the Vice-President, on the Floor of this House, assured the nation that they would release the reports of those commissions to members of the public for them to scrutinise and understand the contents.

Sir, it is now more than a year since the PF took over power and no report of the Commissions of Inquiry has been released to members of the public. I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President, when his Government will release these reports to the public so that they can be availed the information contained therein.

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, the answer, of course, is, when they have been scrutinised and when it is judged to be politic to release them. Quite a number of these reports have been released. For instance the ZAMTEL re-nationalisation report, if you want to call it that, was done extremely promptly. I think, a little bit of patience is required. Suddenly, a year is a long time in politics to the Opposition whereas when  they were in power for twenty years, they never attended to any of these issues.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, some countries now recognise gay rights. I would like to find out what the Zambian Government’s position is regarding gay rights?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, as far as I am aware, this matter has not been addressed by this Government, either in Cabinet or at any other level. What I do know is that Zambia’s representative at the United Nations (UN), last year in June, when the MMD was in Government, abstained from a vote at the UN Commission for Human Rights in New York. At that commission, there was a motion brought by the South Africans that sought to ensure gay rights, not necessarily to allow gay activities, but to ensure that gays were not oppressed politically. I do know that it must have been the last time Zambia actually had an official position by way of abstaining from voting, and thereby helped the South Africans to get that motion through. That is all I know.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr S. Chisanga (Mkushi South): Mr Speaker, the Government promised to construct two police posts in Luano Valley in Chinika and Chembe where the Mailoni brothers are. I would like to find out when the construction of these police posts will commence.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I must just remind the questioners that if they let me know about the questions like that in advance, I can easily find out, even in five minutes, but I cannot, while on the Floor of the House, cook up the answers.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, when the President opened Parliament, he promised that he would give Gwembe a university. I have seen in the 2013 Budget that there is no budget line for a university in Gwembe. I would like to know when Gwembe is going to be given a university.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I seem to recall that His Excellency the President did not put a time bound on the period during which we would construct a university in Gwembe. Perhaps, it will be next year or in fifty years time.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out what the status of the exchange rate is.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I was just looking at the two graphs produced by the hon. Deputy Minister of Finance. The United States dollar ran at about K5,050 for most of the first half of the year. The kwacha strengthened considerably to K4,900 with the introduction of Statutory Instrument No. 33 and the temporary shortage of the local currency that resulted from that and has now gone back to where it was. The US dollar has strengthened against other currencies. A good example of how one must be careful with choosing one’s currency and to review the currencies is the exchange rate against the South African rand. The Zambian kwacha, in the second half of this year, has been stronger than in the first half. Therefore, if you are worried about inflation, bear in mind that all the consumer goods in this country, almost all of which are South African if they are not Chinese, such as the ones you buy in Pick ‘N’ Pay and Game, are actually cheaper in kwacha terms now than they were a year ago.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, following the unfortunate incident in Rufunsa where a life has been lost, massive destruction to property and injuries to many, and taking into account that the people of Zambia are fed up of politics of violence and accusations and counter accusations, is it not prudent that the Government sets up a Commission of Inquiry to settle this matter and enable the Zambian people know the truth?

Hon. Government Members: No, no!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, in this particular instance, we are dealing with a murder of a cadre who was first stoned and then knifed to death. This is an individual whose identity we know. This is a police matter. The police may have to change their pitch a bit in relation to electoral violence. I also note in The Post that the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) cadres in Mufumbwe were threatening to throw rocks at the Zambia Air Force helicopters on the basis that they feared some sort of rigging was taking place. These are all police matters and I do not see how a Commission of Inquiry is going to assist us in making progress. I think it is up to the individual parties, including ourselves, the United Party for National Development (UPND) and the MMD to eschew violence.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, the inaction from the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication and also the provincial administration of the Western Province …

Mr Mwila: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, the rules of this House are that all hon. Members of Parliament are supposed to tell the truth, going by the Constitution of Zambia, Cap. 12 of the Laws of Zambia.

Sir, yesterday, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chembe raised a point of order alleging that PF Members in Rufunsa had killed an MMD cadre. The Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation, on its evening news as well as this morning’s news bulletin, reported that the UPND and MMD are the ones who have actually killed a PF cadre in Rufunsa. Is the hon. Member for Chembe Parliamentary Constituency in order to mislead the House and the nation at large on this matter? 

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Mr Speaker: There is a risk here that we could be caught in a web as to who is telling the truth and who is not. I think let us leave this matter to the appropriate Government wing, in which case, it is the police service. They will investigate the matter and the truth as usual will come out and ultimately, even the courts may be involved in this same inquisition. So I do not think it should be our business or concern here to determine who has killed who.

The hon. Member for Lukulu East may continue.

Dr Kalila: Sir, the inaction on the part of the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication and the provincial administration of Western Province as regards the Katunda/Lukulu road compels me and my colleague to frequently ask the Vice-President when this very important road will it at least be graded for the people of Lukulu as we wait for the Link Zambia 8,000 km intervention to tar it. It is simply a nightmare to pass through this road because it is completely damaged.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, it was stated on radio two days ago that the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) is actually doing what the hon. member is requesting.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr I. Banda (Lumezi): Mr Speaker, now that the rains have started, what has the Government done in order to clear the vendors from the streets in order to prevent diseases such as cholera and typhoid?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I would have thought that drainage and proper ablutions were much more relevant to the question of typhoid on the streets than the people who are anyway walking on the streets.I hope and trust that the councils concerned are taking proactive measures to ensure that there is no disease risk.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, the Zambian democracy is well admired by many countries. At any point, when we see something damaging that democracy, hon. Members both on your left and right must rally together to ensure that we continue with this good democracy. A day or two before we have by-elections, violence usually erupts. Examples are the by-elections in Mufumbwe, Rufunsa and the one which we had in the Eastern Province. Is the PF Government not considering to sit down with probably Opposition political parties so that violence is removed for good in our electoral process?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, it is standard procedure for the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) to set up a conflict resolution committee before a by-election which calls the various players together. There may be a case to be made for upping the status of the people involved in this. However, at the end of the day, the ones to be blamed are the political parties who move cadres around. It is these cadres who indicate the levels of lawlessness which might be tolerated by the party. I mean, we can as well meet in the coffee room downstairs and agree among ourselves to adopt a certain code of conduct in our parties. In my opinion, that would be as good as any formal gathering.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President what the position on the intended re-nationalisation of Zambia National Commercial Bank (ZANACO) is and the direction that the PF is taking this country vis-à-vis economic management. We see a situation where private assets are being nationalised in some cases and in other cases being given back to private owners as in the case of Finance Bank.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, there is no nationalisation of ZANACO that I am aware of, whether in the works or not. It is always a pleasure to answer a question from a lady who thinks the PF is deeply unpopular. I think it was just yesterday that she said, “You will get even more unpopular than you already are.”

Laughter 

The Vice-President: Well, I think 8,500 votes to 5,500 speaks for itself.

Hon. PF members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Winning twelve local government elections out of fourteen, including two in the North-Western Province and elsewhere, is a very poor indicator of these depths of unpopularity.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: It is more of an indicator of the wishful thinking of the Opposition, who think they are about to toss out the PF from office by some magical means after one year. It is very poor political psychology.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Now, returning to the question …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

The Vice-President: The PF Government is committed to a private sector led economy. All our mines are dominated by private sector international investors plus some Government investment through the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines – Investment Holdings (ZCCM-IH) and so on and so forth. We have never made any bones about. We have never said we must nationalise the mines, farms or factories. Before the elections, when we were campaigning, we picked out a number of issues concerning the selling of ZAMTEL, ZANACO and Finance Bank. We said that when we came to power, we would sort out things retroactively. Mwaona manje …

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Hon. Vice-President, what do you mean? I did not get you.

Laughter 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I said, “Now you have seen what we meant”.

Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Mr Speaker, why has the Government delayed to award tenders for the supply of fertiliser under the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP)? This delay will really affect the timely distribution of farming inputs and subsequently affect crop yields in the 2012/2013 farming season. I say so because farmers in Masaiti Parliamentary Constituency have not been paid by the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) their money up to date for them to purchase fertilisers for this farming season from agro outlets.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, a lot of shifting ground there. However, I wish to state that the contracts for the supply of fertiliser have long since been awarded. In fact, at the moment fertiliser from Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NCZ) is being distributed to the individual farmers throughout Zambia. On the Omnia/Miyombo supply contract, payment is still awaited from the Zambian Government’s side. I have been assured that this matter will be sorted out in a few days. Things are actually going according to plan. 
  
   If there are really problems with regard to the FRA payments in Masaiti, the hon. Member should contact the Administration Department of the FRA or the hon. Minister or even me if he cannot find the hon. Minister so that we can quickly find out by the use of the telephonic device what the problem is rather than him trying to get that information from this House.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, 31st October has passed and today is 9th November, 2012, farmers have still not been paid not because there is no money in the banks, especially in Kalomo, but because there is only one bank paying farmers and receiving Farmers Input Support Programme (FISP) deposits. Is the Government not going to engage Barclays Bank of Zambia Limited to take over FISP like it did last year?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, in future maybe, yes.  However, at the moment, it would be like changing horses in midstream and we will probably add more confusion than is already there. My heart bleeds for the farmers who have to queue up everyday outside these banks. I think the banks one day will pay the price of their own inefficiency when there is more choice and freedom of action on the part of farmers and banks.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simfukwe (Mbala): Mr Speaker, in view of the fact that Zambia will be hosting the United Nations World Tourism Organisation (UNWTO) event, are there plans by the Government to work on the road to Kalambo Falls, which is the tallest falls in Africa, so that we to take advantage of the upcoming visit of the tourists?

The Vice-President:  Mr Speaker, the actual works for the Kalambo Falls Road from Mbala to Kalambo Falls is in Phase III of the Link Zambia 8000 Road Project and will be carried out in due course. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the upcoming UNWTO General Assembly which will take place in Livingstone which is 2,000 km away from the Kalambo Falls. As a child, I remember the Kalambo Falls very well. We used to visit it every year. I look forward to going there again by road.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, while campaigning in Mufumbwe, the PF Government Ministers threatened to withhold funding for development projects in Mufumbwe if the people did not for Mr Masumba.  Can the Vice-President clarify whether the Opposition led constituencies shall be discriminated against?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am on record as having said publicly in Mufumbwe, not only that we would take development to the area irrespective of the outcome of the election, but also that projects such as the Link Zambia 8000 Road Project were going to take development to all the parts of the country.  No promises are actually needed because we are already on the path of implementing certain projects. That is what was said.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West):  Mr Speaker, my question might be similar to the question raised by the hon. Member for Lubansenshi. On Sunday, 4th November, 2012, both the Sunday Mail and The Post carried a very disturbing story attributed to the President of the Republic of Zambia. On page 1 of the Sunday Mail, it is as follows:

“And at Matushi Basic School, the President said the North-Western Province would lag in development if all the parliamentary seats in the region are in opposition hands.”

“You can vote for UNIP, but they were there a long time ago and we don’t know where they are. If you don’t vote for this boy, we will say thank you very much and we will take money where they vote for us.”

“Even when they come to say the house for Chief Chizela is very bad, we will say Chief Chizela bye-bye. We will look for a chief where we have an MP.”

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

You can continue, please.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, is the Government making the election of a PF  Member of Parliament or the positioning of a Member of Parliament is a prerequisite to development in any part of this country? 

Mr Lufuma laid the paper on the Table.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I will say two things. First of all, I have been misquoted even in the case of the Mufumbwe By-election several times in the press. I mean it is not for nothing that learned lawyers and judges regard newspapers stories as hearsay. Somebody could have paraphrased what His Excellency the President said. Judge us by our deeds. The Kabompo Road has been tarred without a single PF Member of Parliament anywhere in sight. Furthermore, Livingstone is scheduled to host the UNWTO event and is thus getting a makeover.  There is not a PF hon. Member of Parliament for about 500 km in any direction. 

Hon. Government Member: And the Bottom Road.

The Vice-President: Yes, and the Bottom Road. You can have them all.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Njeulu (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, not only do we deserve a decent road, but answers.  Is it true that the RRU is working on the Katunda/Lukulu Road?
 
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, my colleague, the hon. Minister responsible for works talked about works on this road three days ago on radio.  I am not sure whether the actual equipment has arrived in the area. I am also not sure whether the actual picks and axes have started hitting the ground. I think the hon. Minister responded to the point of order by the same hon. Member that this road was not in the Yellow Book as we had supposed. We are responding to the needs of his constituency despite him not being a PF hon. Member. 

Thank you, Sir.

Mr L. Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, football is mostly funded by taxpayers’ money, thus the Zambian people have great interest in the management of the sport.  Of late, there have been calls by the public that certain players be recalled to the Zambia National Team, but it appears as if the Football Association of Association (FAZ) has ignored them.  A case in point is that of Jacob Mulenga. What is the position of the Government on such an issue?

Hon. Government Members: Clifford Mulenga.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the phrase, ‘a can of worms’ comes to mind the minute we start to entertain demands from the public that we lean upon the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ) and the coach to start directing players onto or off the field. We will be in for a real muddle. Even China or a small Indian team would be able to beat us under those circumstances.

Laughter

The Vice-President: I think that we are better off leaving it to the professionals. It reminds me of the time during the World Cup when the President of Cameroon actually started moving players around on the field. That was about 1993/94.

Hon. Members: Yes.

Hon. Government Member: It was 1994.

The Vice-President: That was 1994. They managed to score one goal as a consequence of bringing on Roger Miller. However, we cannot do it that way. It really would not be practicable. Can you imagine the conspiracies that would develop against individuals? No, it is not possible.

I thank you, Sir.

_________ 

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES 
in the Chair]

(Consideration resumed)

VOTE 11– (Zambia Police Service – Home Affairs – K890, 051, 169, 264) and VOTE 15 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – K336, 996, 875, 454).

The Minister of Information and Broadcasting (Mr Sakeni) (on behalf of the Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Lungu)):  Mr Chairperson, I wish to thank you for giving me this opportunity to present the policy statement on the Ministry of Home Affairs in respect of the Revenue and Expenditure for 2013. This policy statement is a combination of Head 11 – Zambia Police, Home Affairs, and Head 15 – Home Affairs, which includes the Prisons Department, Immigrations Department and the Department of National Registration Passport and Citizenship, and Head 16 – Drug Enforcement Commission.

Mr Chairperson, the mandate of the ministry is to effectively and efficiently maintain an accountable and transparent internal security system that will lead to the sustainable socio-economic development of our country.

Mr Chairperson, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government takes cognisance of the fact that a secure and peaceful environment is a prerequisite for socio-economic development. In this vein, the ministry will remain resolute in maintaining a secure and peaceful nation in order to attract the much-needed local and foreign investments.

Mr Chairperson, the ministry’s priority from 2013 to 2015 is the integration of the information communication technologies (ICTs) in crime prevention programmes and activities, improvement of infrastructure as well as expansion of the staff strength across the country.

Mr Chairperson, it is envisaged that this policy measure will improve efficiency and effectiveness in executing policing duties as well as improving the officer population ratio. This will raise public confidence in our law enforcement agencies.

Computerisation

Mr Chairperson, the ministry will finalise amendment of the National Registration Act to facilitate introduction of digitised national registration cards (NRCs). This process will culminate in an improved registration card with wider usage. The process of computerisation will include digitalisation of other national documents, such as birth, adoption and marriage records. This programme will result into quick processing and retrieval of records at the Department of National Registration, Passport and Citizenship.

Mr Chairperson, the ministry will also embark on the process of modernising the Zambia Police Force by putting in place an integrated security data base that will link with other stakeholders in crime prevention. The ministry will equally enhance forensic operations to expedite investigations. 

Mr Chairperson, the ministry has embarked on the process of computerising and decentralising the operations of the Office of the Registrar of Societies in order to improve its efficiency and effectiveness. 

Mr Chairperson, the ministry will also ensure that the process of computerising border controls is accelerated in 2015. You may wish to know that most of our immigration border controls are still dependent on manual processes for facilitating entry and exit of persons in the country.

Recruitment and Training of Staff

The ministry is faced with a critical shortage of human resource in all departments. In this regard, it will continue to recruit and train staff in all departments in order to enhance efficiency and effectiveness.

Staff Motivation 

Mr Chairperson, we are aware that the maintenance of peace and stability in the country requires a motivated and dedicated staff, hence, the PF Government has embarked on the process of harmonising salaries and conditions of service for the security wings.

Prisoners’ Welfare

Mr Chairperson, the ministry will remain committed to improving prisons’ welfare by providing the necessary infrastructure to support custodial and correctional services in line with the PF Government’s policy to decongest prisons. The ministry will also continue constructing and renovating prisons and institutional houses.

As regards food rations for inmates, the PF Government inherited a huge debt to food suppliers, which it intends to dismantle in 2013. Furthermore, we wish to enhance food production in the Zambia Prison Force by procurement of heavy farming equipment. The ministry has also provided for the commissioning of a milling plant in Kabwe in order to commence production of mealie-meal to feed inmates.

Drug Trafficking

Mr Chairperson, the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC) will continue to explore systematic measures of combating drug cultivation, trafficking, abuse and money laundering vices that have proved to be on the rise. The ministry also has plans to establish a modern rehabilitation centre to rehabilitate and re-integrate drug-dependent persons back into their communities where they can contribute positively to national development.

Budget provisions

Mr Chairperson, in order for the ministry to achieve its outlined programmes above, a total of K 41.4 billion has been budgeted for DEC, representing an increase of about 38 per cent, while a provision of K890 billion has been allocated for the Zambia Police Force, representing an increase of 20 per cent. For the rest of the departments, including the headquarters, K337 billion has been provided, representing an increase of 25 per cent.

Conclusion.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to conclude by commending the hardworking men and women in the ministry and the people of Zambia for the commitment to maintaining a secure and peaceful Zambia. With these few remarks, I call upon all hon. Members of this August House to support the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for the Ministry of Home Affairs under Heads 11, 15 and 16.

I thank you, Sir.

__________{mospagebreak}

ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE CHAIRPERSON

PARLIAMENT RADIO BREAK IN TRANSMISSION

The Chairperson: I would like to inform hon. Members on the operations of Parliament Radio. 

Hon. Members may wish to know that Parliament Radio uses Frequency Modulation (FM) technology to air programmes. Currently, particularly in Lusaka, there are many radio stations broadcasting using FM transmission technology. This means that, if listeners are using analogue radio sets to receive programmes, there is a high possibility of signal overlaps. This also applies to times when there are breaks in transmission. A station experiencing a break in transmission ends up picking the signal from the transmitter with the nearest and strongest frequency. 

Hon. Members may further wish to know that, yesterday, 8th November, 2012, Parliament Radio experienced a break in transmission from 0900 hours to 1100 hours, and from 1834 hours to 1836 hours due to interruption in power supply at the Twin Palm transmission site. The break in transmission resulted in analogue radio sets picking the programmes from a transmitter whose frequency is close to the Parliament Radio frequency.

Hon. Members may wish to know that there is no bad faith either by Parliament or the Government in relation to the signal overlaps into Parliament Radio which have  happened  before and, in particular, yesterday. Hon. Members may also wish to know that any break in transmission in Lusaka does not affect the other transmission sites, which are Livingstone, Pemba, Chipata, Mongu, Solwezi, Mansa, Kitwe, Kapiri-Mposhi and Kasama. Each of these transmission sites operate independently.
    
__________

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to make some few remarks on the Votes which we are looking at.     

Mr Chairperson, I do not know whether to support the allocations or not. I find it difficult because, when I look back to where we are coming from, this is one ministry about which our colleagues who are now in the Government used to debate with vigour and passion. I still remember how they used to debate.  They used to debate to the extent of almost proposing amendments to this Votes. They were darlings of especially the Zambia Police Force. They condemned the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD) in everything that it did. However, today, we see the same things. 

Sir, when we used to tell them about the resource envelope being limited, they never used to agree. Instead, they condemn us for parading the police along the main roads when the President was passing.  We thought that, when they come to power, they would get rid of this so that we can save on costs. However, what have we seen? There has been a continuation of the same things. They paraded the police at every public rally and talked about their uniforms. We thought that, when they came into the Government, they would buy them uniforms. 

Mr Chairperson, the project of buying bullet-proof vests cannot be sustained. I appreciate that this ministry is made up of important units, especially the Zambia Police Force, which needs more funds. However, the funding for this important ministry remains extremely poor.    I thought that this Government would double the budget that MMD left, going by its rhetoric.   

Mr Chairperson, as I mentioned, everything that we put in place has been abolished by our colleagues. On the other hand, I find it difficult to approve an increase in the ministry’s allocation because, while I appreciate the role of the police, which is to protect life and property, I see that, today, things are different. The Public Order Act is being used as a tool of oppression, yet it has been in existence for a long time, but the previous police administrations managed to allocate time to every political party in this country effectively. 

Sir, I know that woman at the helm of the police. As you may recall, when I was Copperbelt Provincial Minister, that lady was under my administration, just like the Director-General of Intelligence and the Director of DEC. I know their competence. The lady is capable of running the police force if she is left to do her work freely. However, the interference by this administration in their work makes me sad. I wonder what legacy the police command is going to leave in this country. 

Mr Chairperson, most Zambians, and hon. Members in this House, will recall that we had great Inspectors-General of Police like Francis Njovu. He is remembered for bringing university graduates into the system. In those days, the Zambia Police Force had been a dumping ground for not-so-educated people until Francis Njovu became the Inspector-General and modernised it by bringing in the graduates. During our term of office, you saw a lot of professionalism in the police because we had incorporated professionals. We had Inspectors-General like Mr Ephraim Mateyo and the late Mr Henry Mtonga. They are all remembered for their zeal to improve the conditions of service of our men and women in uniform. That was their target. There was transport all over which was rare.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           That is the legacy that those great men left in this country. Alas, today, the police command is known for its intransigence in giving permits to the Opposition. Is that the legacy that they want to leave behind?

Sir, as I said earlier, the Inspector-General of Police is capable just like her second in command, Dr Jere, the man who sings gospel music and I understand that he has a PhD in Law. He should be able to understand the freedoms that we fought for. They should be able to regulate how to give permits instead of completely refusing to give permits to the Opposition political parties.

Mr Chairperson, the electoral violence that is going on in this country, which our colleagues condemned, is on the upswing today. Where is the police? That is why I find it very difficult to understand that we, as legislators, who are supposed to approve this Vote, are denied permission to hold public rallies. Electoral violence is now the order of the day.

Sir, the excuse of lack of manpower does not augur well. I want to urge the police to be professional in their approach. When the Opposition wants to hold a meeting, they are told that there is lack of manpower but, when dispersing them, the number of police officers is more than that of the people attending the same meetings.

Mr Chairperson, these are the issues that the police must address before we, in the Opposition, can find it easy to support their Vote. We believe that the support to this Vote is an effort in vain. I want to advise my colleagues in good faith that they need to stand firm and do a favour to their mother country. The peace and stability of this country depends on the way they handle political matters. They should not be part and parcel of the confusion or infringement of human rights in this country. 

Sir, I do not want to be a prophet of doom but, in the long run, as you refuse to give permits to Opposition parties, the people themselves will rise against you. For how long are you going to keep the Opposition away from the people?Can you imagine stopping Dr Mumba from holding meetings five times on the Copperbelt and you think the people of Wusakile will remain quiet?

Laughter

Mr Mbulakulima: You also deny Mr Hakainde Hichilema permission to hold meetings in Kanyama on five occasions, and you think the people of that area will remain quiet? Let us promote peace. 

Sir, these are the issues that bring confrontation, panic and tension. I believe that the Doctor in Law knows what the 1945 United Nations Charter, and the Declaration of Human Rights of 1948, says. All these human rights must be respected. Today, we are still talking about the same infringement. Where are we as a country, and yet we sit here and approve the Budget.

Mr Chairperson, this must come to an end. I would like to tell the police that when things come to the worst, the PF Government will not be there for them. 

Interruptions

Mr Mbulakulima:I am telling you that this is how it starts. The International Criminal Court (ICC) in the Hague is not very far. Anything that we do is being monitored. Do you think Hon. Lungu and Hon. Kampyongo will escort you to the Hague as police? You will be answering on your own. You should stop it. This is a timely warning.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Mbulakulima: The unwarranted refusal of police permits to the Opposition political parties by the police should come to an end.

Interruptions

Mr Mbulakulima: Sir, I know that you are giving instructions to the innocent police, but I want to urge them to be professional and independent because, at the end of the day, they are only answerable and accountable not only to the people of Zambia, but also the whole world. Today, the world is a global village. Our action here is known immediately by the international people out there.

Mr Chairperson, as I said earlier, I find it extremely difficult to support this budget until we see the reforms in the Zambia Police Force through which we, as Zambians, will be able to move forward and hold meetings freely without any hindrances from Hon. Given Lubinda, Member of Parliament for Kabwata.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter 

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central):Mr Chairperson, as I rise to debate this Motion. I want to put on record that I am going to debate this Motion with a heavy heart.

Sir, I am happy to note that the person who is introducing the Motion today was the first Minister of Home Affairs under the PF Government. When he assumed office, he came to this House and assured us and the nation that the conduct of the police and his ministry would be professional and above board.His statements to this House and to the nation have gone with the wind.

Mr Chairperson, as a politician, I just used to read in the papers and hear of happenings in Zimbabwe pertaining to the conduct of the police and the Ministry of Home Affairs in that country. What I was shuddering to think would happen in Zambia is what is happening today.

Sir, for the first time in the history of this country, we witnessed hundreds of policemen raiding the offices of an Opposition political party with defective search warrants.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Police!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, we noted, with sadness, the brutality of the Zambia Police Force which is being inflicted on the people of Zambia under the PF Government. This is happening for the first time in this country.

Sir, for the first time, we have witnessed a gallant priest in the Catholic Church being deported from Zambia on very flimsy grounds. It never happened under the First President of the Republic of Zambia. It never happened under the Second Republic and the Third President of this country, but it has happened under the PF Government. 

Mr Chairperson, under the PF Government, we have witnessed a number of deportations being carried out. We have to realise that we are living in a global village. If we start deporting members of the public who are citizens of the neighboring countries, we should not think that there will be no retribution. We should always think about that. We are always saying that we want investors to come and invest in Zambia but, if their stay is not secured, we will not attract investors into the country.

Sir, I am neither suggesting that investors who abrogate the laws of this country should not be prosecuted nor have the law visit them. However, they must be treated fairly. That is all I am asking for.

Mr Chairperson, my colleague commented on the issue of the Public Order Act. We, together with the PF, used to complain on the Floor of this House and go to court to try and challenge this obnoxious piece of legislation which was hampering our freedom of association. 

However, today, our colleagues are the praise singers of this particular piece of legislation. It follows that they were not complaining out of principle. 

Hon. Muntanga: They were jealous.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Charperson, now that they are in power, they want to use those instruments of power to abuse their colleagues in the same manner they were being abused. I am aware that Hon. Lubinda, Hon. Sichinga and other colleagues were detained by the police under that same obnoxious piece of legislation. Why is it that they are busy praising this piece of legislation this time around?

Mr Kapeya: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kapeya: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for allowing me to raise this point of order.

Sir, you have advised hon. Members of Parliament, on several occasions, to be very factual when they are bringing issues on the Floor of this House. Is the hon. Member of Parliament for Monze Central in order to claim that the MMD never deported anyone from this country when the records are there to show that Messers William Banda and the late John Chinula, Tickley and many others were deported by the MMD?

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

The Chairperson: There is no serious ruling as you have adequately debated your point of order. 

Can the hon. Member continue.

Laughter 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I never said that the MMD never deported anyone. I said the MMD never deported any Catholic Priest. 

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mention any Catholic Priest who was deported under the MMD Government. There has never been any clergy who was deported who belonged to the Catholic Church. These are the same Catholics who gallantly fought for you to be in Government, but they are the ones you have turned against.

Mr Chairperson, I was saying that the Public Order Act is an obnoxious piece of legislation that should not be allowed to stand in a democracy like ours. The discretional powers that have been conferred on the police have been abused. The police tend to think that they have the power to issue permits. 

However, the police have no power to issue any permits to anyone who wants to hold a rally or procession. 

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, the danger of being independent of wisdom is what makes others make running comments.

Sir, I am appealing to our colleagues that, in the same manner that we used to complain together pertaining to this Public order Act, they should be able to respond prudently. If they are any lacunas which they noticed, they should tell us so that we can cure those lacunas for the benefit of us all. As my colleague indicated, you cannot oppress people all the time and expect them to remain silent. You are sitting on a time bomb. When you oppress people in a democracy, people have the propensity to resist. Do not tempt Zambians to start resisting your oppressive maneuvers. 

Mr Chairperson, our colleagues in the MMD used to think that the PF would never be in power. Similarly, those in the PF should not also think that they will always be in power. One day they shall also be out of power. We saw that this same oppressive law and other oppressive laws were used against my brother, Hon. Major Panji Kaunda. Allegations of arms at Sindamisale were made against him.

Hon. Opposition member: Hear, hear! He knows!

Mr Mwiimbu: When we are in power, we are always be in a position to protect the meek and the weak. We should not use the provisions of the law to oppress others. 

Sir, my brother, Hon. G. Mwamba (GBM), is seated there very quietly. He is suffering  from the wrath … 

Hon. Muntaga: Of the Minister of Justice.

Mr Mwiimbu: … of others who are abusing laws. He also thought that certain laws would not be used against him because he is in power.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I withdraw, … 

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: … I just wanted to remind him.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Order!

Let us refrain from debating ourselves.

Mr Mwiimbu: What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: As responsible parliamentarians, we should always look beyond ourselves. We should look at the interests of everyone because if we make bad laws, those same laws will visit us. You may recall the issue of non-bailable offences under the motor vehicle theft. People used to celebrate here, but it caught up with them eventually.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order, Hon. Muntanga!

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: So, let us not make such laws. I recall that when the hon. Minister of Home Affairs came into office, he made a public statement that roadblocks would be a thing of the past as they are a reflection of a police State. What has happened? Within a month of coming into power, roadblocks were brought back. Someone once even said that there are even roadblocks outside certain people’s houses.

Hon. Opposition member: Yes!

Mr Mwiimbu: Why should we do such things? 

We used to preach, together with the PF, that when we came into power, we would have a professional police service. Of late, we are having so many complaints from the Zambia Police Force officers that incompetent and unqualified people are superseding qualified and experienced officers. Allowing such situations to continue happening in the police force will de-motivate the officers such that they will not be in a position to protect us properly. 

Mr Chairperson, I recall that when the PF was still in the Opposition, its members used to say that when they came into power, they would ensure that the rights of citizens were not abrogated by ensuring that the due process of the law was followed when prosecuting people. We have noted with concern summary executions by the Zambia Police. We have heard the police in the field say, “Today, we have gunned down ten people who were trying to stage a robbery.” These are the summary executions which I am talking about. They should not be tolerated. I am also aware that even those days when the police were investigating the killings of our dear brothers, Wezi Kaunda and Ronald Penza, a number of people were killed and not brought before the courts of law. Up to now, we do not even know who actually killed our dear brothers.

Mr Lubinda: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I waited until there were only nineteen seconds before my colleague winds up his debate. I was wondering whether he is in order to just mention the fact that Hon. Request Muntanga, Hon. Bob Sichinga and I were once arrested at the time when Hon. Mwansa Mbulakulima was hon. Deputy Minister of Home Affairs and yet he has not stated the fact that he, as our lawyer has failed to remove the police bond that hangs on our heads. Is that lawyer in order to ignore to mention that fact now that he is about to wind up his debate? May he clarify?

Laughter

The Chairperson: Maybe the hon. Member on the Floor address that issue in the nineteen seconds that he has left.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, my colleague is just reminding me that he should not be holding the position of hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs because he is currently appearing in court. As his lawyer, I did not want to disclose the lawyer-client relationship, but he is now asking me to do so. 

I thank you, Mr Chairman.

Laughter

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank you for giving me an opportunity to add my voice to the debate which is on the Floor.  It has been a while since I added my voice to the parliamentary debate in this session and I am grateful for this opportunity. 

Sir, I will be very brief and hope to finish within ten minutes so that other hon. Members can also make their important contributions. I would like to take the contributions which have been made by my colleagues with regard to the Public Order Act as mine.

Mr Speaker, you will recall that in the past, I have questioned the training of our police officers on this Floor. I would like to spend a few minutes on this subject. The police, quite rightly as has been said by the hon. Minister, are responsible for maintaining peace and ensuring that there is stability in all our communities in this country. For the people of Lukulu, the same cannot be said.

Mr Chairperson, in Lukulu, we only have one police station for the entire district. It is not a secret that at the moment, we are grappling with the issue of hired assassins who are known as karavinas. A karavina is a corrupted form of AK 47 or karashinkov, which has been given to this band of hired assassins who have been killing our citizens with impunity and arbitrariness for a very long time. The Zambia Police Force has failed to curb this very unfortunate scenario. A month hardly passes by without a citizen of Lukulu being killed. Only last month, a Mr Shimishi of Watopa was shot in cold blood using these very sophisticated AK 47 rifles. He was evacuated and died here in Lusaka. A month before, another man in Nyati area was shot in cold blood after which his head was decapitated. These incidents have been happening for a very long time. We have stood on the Floor of this House and raised questions regarding such incidents. However, very little has been done to arrest the situation. You begin to wonder whether, indeed, our police service is up to the task of arresting this situation. I know that probably, it is the same situation which is obtaining in Luano Valley concerning the Mailon brothers.

Mr Chairperson, it is for this reason that I have said that the dynamics of modern crime today is way above the competences of our men and women in the Zambia Police. I believe they only train for six months. I do not think that six months is adequate to train a police officer to detect the dynamics of sophisticated fraud and cybercrime. Of course, you can see that the issues that I have raised, to do with very sophisticated weapons cannot be handled by the police.  It is for this reason that I did call upon the hon. Minister of Home Affairs to consider revising the training methods, syllabi and duration for training police officers. Even when our daughters go to Grade 1, they do not take six months before they go to the next grade. What more those we are training to stop a very big societal ill such as crime? Six months is just nothing. Part of that obviously goes to military drilling which is not a so relevant aspect necessary for modern policing and crime prevention. 

Hon. Minister, I think we should attach the seriousness which this matter deserves in order to deal with the issue of these hired assassins in the Western Province, in Lukulu in particular.  There is need for the citizens to know that if anything happened to them, they can go somewhere for recourse. In the case of our area, as I have indicated, the place is so huge and vast, but there is only one police station. There is not even one single police post anywhere else within the entire district. With the kind of crime which exists in Lukulu, I think that we have been failed in this area. 

Mr Chairperson, if you look at this allocation, you will discover that out of all the provinces, when it comes to the allocation for crime preventions and investigations, the Western Province has received the least amount. All the provinces have been allocated, at least, a K100 million for investigations and crime prevention, but you will notice that for Western Province it has only been allocated K50 million. I felt that, perhaps, there should have been a bigger allocation for the province because that is where we are getting a lot of challenges such as those posed by the karavinas. It is sad that the allocation to the province has reduced when it is faced with a lot of problems. We need to increase the allocation so that we are on top of things. I said I was going to spend less than 10 minutes because I just wanted to bring this matter to the attention of the hon. Minister of Home Affairs. If the police are not able to sort out the karavinas problem, perhaps, it is high time we surrendered it to our security and defence forces so that they can quickly put an end to these arbitrary killings of our people almost on a monthly basis for the last ten years. With these few remarks, on a sad note, I would like to end here.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Chairperson, in supporting the vote of the Zambia Police-Ministry of Home Affairs, I want to talk about a few issues. I have noticed that the Ministry of Home Affairs had a big increase from K742,575,182,616 last year to K890,051,169,264 this year. That is an increase of K147,475,986,648 and if you work out the percentages, you will notice that it is a reasonable increase. I believe that, this is well intended because the police do not have accommodation.

Mr Chairperson, I want to state that, in certain areas, houses for the police are in a shameful state. During one of the inspections, we went to the Western Province, we found that in some houses there were big cracks, so much so that, you could see what was in the house from the outside. For Kalomo, at least, there are some renovations that are being done although the situation was the same and there was a shortage of accommodation. I hope that this increase will go towards the attention of existing structures.

Mr Chairperson, those who have already debated spoke about the need for the police to be professional. Most politicians have so much to say about the police because they sometimes deal with them. I know that, there are some hon. Ministers who are convicts, or maybe, they have now cleared themselves. Even my good friend, who I am currently looking at, was arrested and now wants to use the police to revenge and arrest others. He just missed to go to prison by a whisker.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: Whenever you are facing the law, you tend to think that the police are unfair. What we should do is to support them and encourage them to be professional. We once had a situation where we kept on complaining to the then Inspector General of Police, but we noticed he had become a Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) party cadre because he did attend to our concerns. When the Patriotic Front (PF) Government came into power, he was the first person that they removed from office, and brought in Dr. Malama in that position. I felt that it was a good idea to bring in a doctor, although I did not know that he was a actually a medical doctor, and not a doctor in crime as I thought. However, he was again removed from that office because I think, he did not do what they wanted him to do. They have now appointed another Inspector-General who I think should learn from the predecessors. .

The Chairperson: Order! Hon. Muntanga.

I am a little bit uncomfortable that you have now began to discuss some individuals, I think, let us zero in on the policy involving the Zambia Police - Ministry of Home Affairs. We should not talk about individuals because it is difficult for them to defend themselves. Continue please, Hon. Muntanga.

Mr Muntanga: The one who interprets the policy which the police should follow is the Inspector-General of police. I will try to avoid mentioning names despite it being very difficult to avoid referring to the interpreter. 

Mr Chairperson, some of these problems started way back. We had secretary-generals of the party who were arming party cadres in the olden days.

The Chairperson: That is the point. I will have no problem when you talk about secretary-generals of the party and inspector-generals of the police, but once you begin naming some individuals then I will have a problem with that.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, I thank you very much for that acknowledgement. The secretary-general of the police was arming party cadres in the olden days. This time around, we have had cases involving armed party cadres. Yesterday, some people had to disarm a party cadre who had a gun in the voting room in Rufunsa. We are now going back to the same old times when those people were being armed by that secretary- general. Let us remind them that we have not forgotten those days. That trend is bad. Please, do not bring it back. It is very easy to point a finger at a friend when you do not want to be blamed. It is difficult for the police to be professional, because they are at crossroads to decide on who is in the right. Let us allow them to be professional in their jobs. Even in the case of Rufunsa, if they are allowed to give a true statement of what happened, you will see who they will point at. Let me appeal to them not to be influenced, especially now when we have hon. Ministers who are more oriented to being party cadres than anything else. They think being hon. Minister of the Home Affairs means that after drinking a few beers, they have the powers to order the police to arrest anyone. That is not acceptable.

Hon. PF Members: Question.

Mr Muntanga: Earlier, when a debater mentioned the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, there was immediately a change in the mood in the House. In this House, we amended the piece of legislation on the Public Order Act to move away from the scenario of a police permit being granted to that of only requiring to notify the police before holding a gathering. That piece of legislation was amended in this House. That is why we did not have problems for some time. However, we now have politicians confusing terminologies. 

Mr Chairperson, in order to arrest an hon. Member of Parliament or any senior Government official, the police need clearance from the in-charge, either in the Ministry of Home Affairs or the powers that be because they want to be in the right. They always authorise arrests and pretend that they do not know anything. In the end, we want to blame the police, yet the fight is between the Opposition and the Government. When you are very scared and not sure about how to govern, you want to suppress the other group. Why was it easy for us to have permits to hold meetings from the former hon. Minister of Home Affairs, who is seated just there? His successor, jumpy as he is, …

Laughter 

Mr Muntanga: … and who came into this House in a very strange way, ... 

Laughter 

Mr Muntanga: … finds it difficult to accept that others can behave in an orderly manner. 

Mr Speaker, he is deporting anyone and anyhow, including priests, the same people who voted for his Government. The Catholics strongly supported the PF. They are now telling you to bring back Father Banyanga, whatever his name is, and you have to bring him back because the Catholics will work against you if you do not. Do not play with them. They start by simply writing a letter and, before you know it, it will be a pastoral letter and, then, they will preach against you in church. Bring back that priest before it is too late. 

Laughter 

Mr Muntanga: If you do not …

Hon. Member interjected. 

Mr Muntanga: He might be acting, yes, but why does he not bring back the priest while he is in-charge so that, by the time Hon. Lungu comes back, the priest would have been brought back?  

Laughter 

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, if you appointed me hon. Minister of Home Affairs, I would correct all the wrong-doings in one week.  By the time you are removing me, I would have changed things. Why do you waste time? You know that the hon. Minister does not understand what you are talking about. If the cameras showed how he behaved in this House or if you took that tape to the President in order to show him how the hon. Minister behaved and told him that  … 

Mr D. Mwila: On a point of order, Sir. 

Mr Muntanga: From a convict. 

Laughter

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised. 

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Chairperson, on a very serious note, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalomo Central, who has been in this House for a long time, in order to tell the hon. Deputy Minister of Defence that I am a convict? Further, you made a ruling that we are not supposed to debate ourselves, but the hon. Member has concentrated on talking about the hon. Minister of Home Affairs. Is he in order to debate in that manner?

The Chairperson: On a serious note, the hon. Member on the Floor should move on to policy issues. In his reference to a convict, a name was not mentioned, but we can infer. However, let us zero-in on policy. 

You may continue, Hon. Muntanga. 

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, I am still concerned with the police and the people who govern us, the hon. Ministers. This conviction is for everyone, including hon. Ministers. If you were a convict before, we shall refer to it and, if the cap fits, wear it.  

Mr Chairperson, all I am saying is that the policy on the deportation of people and the one for issuing permits for people to hold meetings should be implemented without fear or favour. I referred to the fact that you always get caught up in your own laws. When you put a law in place, others want to try it. In Zimbabwe, there was a law against terrorism and an hon. Minister used it to arrest others in the Government and people were killed. When he was taken to court, he defended himself by saying that he had used a piece of legislation which was in place. Let us be humane enough and not be excited to see others harassed. Hon. Minister of Home Affairs, you are dealing with us, your fellow politicians on an everyday basis. 

Tomorrow, as you apply …

The Chairperson: Order!

I think that I will be failing in my duty if I did not guide. Hon. Muntanga, as a former diplomat, I think that it is safe to talk about what happened in another country without mentioning the name of the country. Once we begin to mention names, we are bound to go wrong because we could have a reaction. We must not mention names, but speak generally. I would rather you did not mention countries. 

You may continue.

Mr Muntanga: I thank you, Sir, for your guidance. I benefit from your having been a diplomat. I am sorry and withdraw the name of the country I mentioned. I will leave it at the fact that such things happened in that country and, maybe, we can take a leaf. 

Mr Chairperson, it is important for this Government and our hon. Ministers to learn from that country. I want to urge the hon. Minister of Home Affairs to utilise this money, which has been increased reasonably, for the benefit of all Zambians. We want to see vehicles being purchased for the police. Kalomo District is very big.  From the river on the border to the other side, near Namwala, the police have no transport. At one time, I was assured by a certain hon. Deputy Minister that Kalomo District was number four on the list to get vehicles for the police. That promise never came to fruition because the hon. Deputy Minister decided to support other places. He has not come back to tell me what number my district is now. I think that we have even moved to the bottom of the list. 

Laughter 

Mr Muntanga: We need you to buy vehicles. Do not assure me if you are not sure. The money has been given in the 2013 Budget, and I am appealing to my good friend, who is acting, to send a vehicle to Kalomo while he is still in that capacity.  

Laughter 

Mr Muntanga: After all, he is my friend and my mulamu. Send a vehicle to Kalomo before the hon. Minister comes back, … 

Laughter 

Mr Muntanga: … who might change the position. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Laughter 

Ms Kalima (Kasenengwa): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for your consideration. In supporting the Vote for the Ministry of Home Affairs, I will be very brief. 

Sir, the role of the police is to preserve order and peace. This can only be done if the police are well looked after. What I mean is that the police must be provided for. Their day-to-day needs must be met. 

Mr Chairperson, while the PF Government might be committed to fighting corruption, it is quite rampant in the Zambia Police Force. This will not change. The fight against corruption will not succeed if the police is not looked after. We know what happens even at roadblocks. Most of the money collected does not go to the Government. It is only a matter of talking to the police. This is what has been happening. If you drive, and you have not been an hon. Member of Parliament, throughout, you, probably, had an encounter of what I talking about. The country has lost a lot of revenue and this is can be attributed to corruption in the Zambia Police Force. We need to look after the police men and women. 

Mr Chairperson, corruption in the police is very rampant because officers have to think of their comfort. They work in very tempting environments hence they have to think about their families. Meanwhile, they do not have proper accommodation, as earlier mentioned, and work in difficult environments. They have no offices. Mostly, they just rent rooms as offices and are usually under-staffed. They work under extremely difficult conditions and have no transport. In due course, they get so frustrated that they are attracted to the corrupt practices that they are exposed to.

Sir, I would like to take this opportunity to talk about my constituency, and give an example where three wards out of seven, have to share one police post, which you may not even call a police post, but just a room at the council which they have been renting. Only two police officers have had to handle the three wards without transport at all. Their accommodation is also compromised. 

Sir, recently, the two police officers were withdrawn from Chiparamba, which used to cover Mukowe and Mboza. To date, the two police officers have not been replaced. Thus, the crime rate in Kasenengwa and other areas has gone up. Not long ago, the Headteacher of Chiparamba Secondary School was beaten up by some people in the community, who committed this offence freely since they knew that there were no police officers in the vicinity. The case had to be taken to the Boma, which is quite far.

Mr Chairperson, therefore, I suggest that police officers be looked after in order for them to perform. If the PF has to succeed in the fight for corruption, …

Hon. Government Members: For?

Ms Kalima: Yes, to succeed in the fight for corruption. If you are going to look at corruption in other areas and leave the police as not being corrupt, then, there is no corruption that you are fighting. You have to start with the corruption that is in the police force.

Sir, when the PF Government came into power, it made many promises to the people, including police officers who are also citizens. They promised to build houses, offices and give them new uniforms. I recall a situation in which a police officer was called to the front at a rally. He was said to have been wearing a wrong uniform and that it was not going to be the case when they came into power. 

Mr Chairperson, I have gone through this budget and, being an hon. Member of Parliament for Kasenengwa, I will concentrate on the Eastern Province. There has been an increase from K21 billion in 2012 to K27 billion in 2013, giving an increase of K7 billion. However, I have not seen any allocation going to the construction of a police post, police cell or the procurement of vehicles. I have noticed that K6 billion has gone to salaries, K1 billion to utilities, K500 million to public order maintenance and K300 million to the rehabilitation of police stations and cells. Nonetheless, I would have really loved to see a provision for the construction of police posts or procurement of vehicles for the police officers to work in a conducive environment. When I sat down, I really wondered, when this budget was being prepared, what criteria and procedures were used to consider some of the things that are most important to the police. 

Sir, I have not seen the provision for recruitment of the police officers. You may recall that I gave an example of three wards in Kasenegwa which do not have the presence of police officers. This is because we lack an adequate numbers of police officers. If we could budget for the recruitment of more police officers, we would improve the under-staffing.

Mr Chairperson, therefore, I wish to appeal to the hon. Minister to immediately look at my constituency and deploy some police officers there or bring back the ones who were removed. I am debating very soberly and know that everybody is looking at me.

Laughter

Ms Kalima: I was warned earlier by Hon. Lubinda to be sober.

So, with these few words, I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Laughter

The Deputy Minister of Defence (Mr Mwila): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the budget of the Ministry of Home Affairs and the Zambia Police Force. I will be very brief.

First and foremost, I would like to clarify one point which was raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chembe. Mr Chairperson, when the President of the Republic of Zambia is going to the airport, he goes there using a chopper. I do not know where the hon. Member of Parliament for Chembe saw the President going to the airport by road. I think that we have to tell the truth. That was happening in the previous administration. It was President Rupiah Banda who was putting …

Hon. Government Members: Bwezani!

Mr Mwila: … police officers on the road. That is not happening …

Mr Mbulakulima interjected.

The Chairperson: Order!

I do not want this to be a duel between Mr Mbulakulima and the hon. Deputy Minister of Defence. Let us give the him chance to finish his debate.

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: No. I will not allow points of order for now. 

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: On his behalf.

Laughter

The Chairperson: No.

Laughter

The Chairperson: No points of order.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Can you, please, continue.

Hon. Government Member: Well done, Chair!

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, before I was interrupted, I was saying that, under the MMD regime, the police were just arresting us anyhow and at any time, yet no one was talking.

Hon. MMD Members interjected.

Mr Mwila: MMD hon. Members must remain quiet for now because they abused the police …

The Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Deputy Minister, can you debate the policy for the Ministry of Home Affairs, not the MMD or the PF. That is why I refused to give Hon. Mwiimbu a point of order.

Can you continue, please?

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, I have seen in the Budget that the police have been allocated K2 billion for the recruitment of police officers, and the ministry has indicated that it will recruit 800 officers. That is a very big achievement because we want to increase the numbers of police officers.

Secondly, Sir, the ministry has been provided with K6 billion for the construction of police posts as well as police stations …

Brigadier-General Dr Chituwo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: Order!

I am not sure whether it is procedural.

Brigadier-General Dr Chituwo: It is procedural.

Hon. Government Member: It is not.

Mr Mwila: ... and …

The Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Members have a clever way of trying to do something to beat the Chair’s ruling. So, for now, Hon. Dr Chituwo, I am not granting you the point of order.

Can you continue, please, hon. Deputy Minister.

Mr Mwila: … in 2012, the ministry was provided with K9 billion. So, we have continued with the same process.

With these few words, Mr Chairperson, I support this Vote.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

_________

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

__________

The House adjourned at 1255 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 13th November, 2012.