Thursday, 1st October, 2020

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Thursday, 1st October, 2020


The House met at 1430 hours


[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]












The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Katambo): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to deliver a ministerial statement on the preparations of the 2020/2021 Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). I wish to update the nation on the progress made by the Ministry of Agriculture in the implementation of preparations for the 2020/2021 Agriculture Season.


Mr Speaker, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government remains committed to supporting the small-scale farmers with inputs under FISP in order to enhance agriculture production and productivity. Through FISP, we intend to help the farmers have access to affordable agriculture inputs which are delivered on time.


Mr Speaker, we are all aware that FISP has faced several challenges in its implementation. As Government, we are resolved to overcoming these challenges. I am happy to inform this august House that the issue of the late delivery of inputs to the districts has been addressed. As was the case last year, farmers have already started receiving their inputs for the 2020/2021 Agriculture Season.


Sir, let me now highlight some of the measures that we have put in place for FISP in the 2020/2021 Agriculture Season. During the 2020/2021 Agriculture Season, the programme will be implemented as follows:


  1. two modalities of implementation namely; the Electronic Voucher System (e-Voucher   

            System) and the Direct Input Supply (DIS) will be used;

       b. a total of 1 million farmers will be targeted to receive inputs under the programme; and

      c. the farmer contribution remains unchanged at K400.


Mr Speaker, the distribution of the farming inputs for the 2020/2021 Agriculture Season was launched on 9th September, 2020, by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu. This is a clear demonstration of the importance that this Government attaches to supporting the small-scale farmers. For the 2020/2021 Agriculture Season, six fertiliser suppliers have been contracted to supply inputs under the DIS. As I make this statement, the fertiliser has been delivered to the districts except in those places where there are no storage facilities.


Sir, for the districts without storage space, the fertiliser has been strategically pre-positioned so that it can easily be delivered to those districts when needed. Further, the ministry has contracted nine seed suppliers to supply various seed and to date, over 70 per cent of seed has been delivered to the districts.


Mr Speaker, under the e-Voucher System, we shall continue to work with agro-dealers to provide inputs to the farmers. To avert the accumulation of arrears to agro-dealers, the Ministry of Agriculture and the Ministry of Finance will ensure that they are paid promptly during the 2020/2021 Farming Season.


Sir, I also wish to report that farmers have already begun making deposits for the 2020/2021 Farming Season and so far, over 945,666 farmers or 95 per cent of the target have already deposited their K400 contribution. Let me take this opportunity to urge farmers to deposit their contributions and begin to collect their inputs. Farmers should not wait for the rains to start collecting their inputs.


Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I urge farmers and the public to be vigilant by reporting all fraudulent activities to law enforcement agencies. This is the only way we can ensure that the right beneficiaries benefit from this programme.


Mr Speaker, I thank you.


Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, you are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement given by the hon. Minister of Agriculture.


Dr Malama (Kanchibiya): Mr Speaker, let me take this opportunity to thank the hon. Minister, the ministry and indeed, law enforcement agents for the work they are doing. I also wish to thank the people of Kanchibiya for being vigilant in ensuring that those who wanted to deprive them of farming inputs face the consequences of doing so.


Mr Speaker, in the past, agro-dealers have faced challenges in getting paid on time. What is the Government doing to readdress this situation so that the agro-dealers get paid in time?


Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Agriculture and the Ministry of Finance have agreed on a mechanism to allow for the retention of the K400 contribution from the beneficiaries of the programme so that payments could be made promptly to the agro-dealers. So, for the 2020/2021 Farming Season, this issue has been addressed. Therefore, the retention of the K400 will be made available to be paid to the agro-dealers.


Mr Speaker, this year’s contributions from FISP beneficiaries are also sufficient to cover all agro-dealer costs.


Mr Speaker, I thank you.


Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the ministerial statement issued pertaining to the progress that has been made in the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). However, I would like to find out why those who are not on the Electronic Voucher (e-Voucher) System are being given eight bags of fertiliser and a bag of seed. Whereas those on the e-Voucher System are only able to access not than three bags of fertiliser and less than a 10kg bag of seed.


Mr Speaker, why is the Government discriminating against those who are on the e-Voucher system by favouring those who are on the conventional input supply to the farmers?


Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Monze Central and Leader of the Opposition for that question. Yesterday, we heard from the hon. Minister of Transport and Communication on the weather patterns. Indeed, agriculture planning is based on information on the weather patterns. So, like I have always been explaining, beneficiaries in the Southern, the Western, parts of Lusaka, the Central and the North-Western provinces, have been recommended to be on the e-Voucher System.


Sir, the amounts are the same. To qualify my response, let me mention that farmers are given a choice concerning the e-Voucher System because of the prolonged dry spells that have been experienced in these areas. Truth be told, in the Southern Province, even the hon. Member will agree with me that, we have faced this challenge of weather patterns. There have been dry spells, drought and wilting of crops in the Southern, parts of Lusaka and the Central provinces, as I have explained. So, this is why we have given farmers a wide range of choices on the e-Voucher System.


Mr Speaker, it is not only a question of picking seed and fertiliser or legumes, it is a question of giving choices to these farmers so that they can also pick small mechanised equipment. Those who are involved in poultry production may pick feed or chemicals for their animals. So, we are giving them a wide range of what they can choose from. Of course, the fertiliser prices vary according to distance and other logistical expenses. So, this is why in certain areas, those who opt to pick fertiliser are picking fewer bags because of the price. 


Sir, the Government has no predetermined control on the prices of these commodities or these inputs. Due to the changing climatic and weather patterns or the plans against the weather patterns, we have opted to implement the e-Voucher system in these regions where we have been faced with these challenges of drought. Of course, the ministry did this following recommendation from the experts.


Mr Speaker, even within the Western and the Southern provinces, there are districts that have been highlighted by the Meteorological Department as those that will have good weather patterns. Nkeyema is one such area. The hon. Member has asked this question several times. Nkeyema has been placed on the DIS because the weather patterns are conducive for the farmers there to receive the seed and fertiliser.


I thank you, Sir.


Mr Fungulwe (Lufwanyama): Mr Speaker, in Lufwanyama, farmers are complaining that it is the same beneficiaries who benefit from this programme every year. What modality is the Government using to put new beneficiaries on the programme, seeing that it continuously engages the old ones?


Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, the Camp Agriculture Committees (CACs) within districts or constituencies or farm blocks identify the vulnerable, but viable farmers on the programme. These are the committees that identify beneficiaries of FISP. 


Sir, some time back, I did indicate on the Floor of the House that this programme will run for three years, concurrently. This means that in 2021, we shall be able to phase out or wean off the beneficiaries who are currently on the programme. So, in 2021 we shall have a new batch of 1 million or more beneficiaries under this programme. The programme will run for three years. Therefore, in 2021, we shall wean off the so called old or the same beneficiaries on this programme. Like I said, the identification is in the farm blocks where we have the CACs which identify these beneficiaries for the programme. Accordingly, we shall wean off or graduate them in 2021.


I thank you, Sir.


Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out if the transportation was included in the –


Technical Malfunction


Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, you are inaudible. You are not clear wherever you are.


Hon. Minister, did you pick the hon. Member’s question?


Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, I think the hon. Member for Chama South is flying and enjoying the flight on the chopper, but I got his question. He is talking about the issue of transportation, whether or not the beneficiaries have to, maybe, use their own transport.


Mr Speaker, farmers are free to hire their own transport. They can agree amongst themselves, to transport the inputs. The transport component has been sorted out. The Ministry of Agriculture has provided the transport to the programme by engaging transporters who can be able to take the inputs to their localities. Furthermore, our fellow hon. Members of Parliament who are also engaged in this programme with our farmers can engage our offices in the provinces and districts to resolve these issues because we have delegated this authority to district and provincial levels. This was done so that the districts and provinces can resolve the issues of transportation. However, it is incumbent upon the farmers to agree to contribute towards the delivery of inputs, but the issue of transport has been catered for on the programme.


I thank you, Sir.


Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe): Mr Speaker, farmers in Mufumbwe made their K400 contributions, but when they went to get their fertiliser and other inputs, they were turned back because the Government had not done the needful. It had not paid Nyimba Investments. When is the Government going to pay Nyimba Investments so that our farmers in Mufumbwe can access farming inputs? The farmers are in the town centre in big numbers, but are not being given farming inputs.


Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, in the North-Western Province, in Mufumbwe in particular, almost all inputs have been delivered in full. All the Compound D and Urea fertilisers have been delivered in full while 95 per cent of the seed inputs have also been delivered. The ministry engaged Nyimba Investments as the supplier. Now, as I speak, farmers have started accessing inputs. There was just an issue of Letters of Credit which the Ministry of Finance was finalising. Now that they have been finalised, I would like to thank the hon. Minister of Finance for the effort. So, now, the beneficiaries on the programme can access their inputs. This issue has been resolved.


I thank you, Mr Speaker.


Mr Kabanda (Serenje): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for an elaborate statement. My question to the hon. Minister is pertaining to the number of bags that are being given to farmers and the omissions that are arising from there. Some names are being omitted despite the correct number of inputs being sent by the Government to a particular co-operative. The Chairmen of Camp Agricultural Committees (CAC) are telling farmers that their names are not on their lists, but are appearing on lists in Mufumbwe or Kasempa. In the meantime the CACs have received the correct number of farming inputs. What is the hon. Minister going to do about that issue?


Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, fraudulent activities should be reported. I said this in the statement. The CAC should be able to work with our District Agricultural Coordinating Officers (DACOs) to know the beneficiaries that are in the database. This is because the database highlights the number of farmers in a particular area. So, a farmer cannot register in Masaiti, but have his/her name appear in the register in Mufumbwe. Clearly, the DACO’s and the Block Officer’s records should show the number of beneficiaries under the DIS or e-Voucher System in Serenje, for example. So, agricultural officers have this information on the direct beneficiaries of the programme and are able to verify with the beneficiaries through the DACOs. The database here in Lusaka also highlights the same number of beneficiaries within a particular farming block or camp. This process is very clear. I find it very strange when Hon. Kabanda says that his farmers’ names are appearing on lists elsewhere on the programme. I actually do not understand that because camp officers have the numbers of the beneficiaries on the programme even on their cards. So, the hon. Member should take a keen interest by getting the number of beneficiaries on the programme in his area and then verifying with the DACOs on who the true beneficiaries on the programme are in that particular catchment area.


I thank you, Mr Speaker.


Mr Mbangweta (Nkeyema): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the statement and for putting Nkeyema on the Direct Input Support (DIS). Just for clarity, I would like to find out whether or not the hon. Minister has managed to pay the agro-dealers who might have been owed some money from the previous farming seasons.


Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, we are continuously dismantling the debt that we owe agro-dealers that we contracted. We owe about K633 million. However, today, K20 million was released by the hon. Minister of Finance. So, as a ministry, we are dismantling the arrears that we owe agro- dealers.


Mr Speaker, we owed agro-dealers over K4 billion. However, we now owe K633 million, K20 million of which was released today. So, there is commitment to pay off the debts and we shall keep paying off those that the ministry owes, including transporters. Just for the information of the House, there was also a K20 million that was released for transporters. So, we are remaining with about K16 million to completely pay off those whom we owe. The Government is committed to doing this and the Ministry of Finance is really helping us. Like I said, for this particular farming season, the retention of the K400 will be able to sort out all these problems of payments for this season.


I thank you, Mr Speaker.


Mr Michelo inaudible.


Mr Speaker: Hon. Member you are not audible.


Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, am I edible now?




Mr Speaker: Not edible. Proceed with your question.




Mr Michelo: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in a position to share with the nation this afternoon how many farmers are going to benefit from the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) and how much will be spent next year as compared to this year?


Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, there are 1 million beneficiaries on the programme. Twenty-six districts are on the e-Voucher System for the 2020/2021 Agriculture Season with about 166,761 beneficiaries and the rest are on the DIS. As for the total amount, the hon. Member can even find it in the Yellow Book. It is there and is highlighted. He has the information, and it has even been uploaded on the hon. Members’ ipads. So, he will be able to also see the amount that has been allocated for this and the next agricultural seasons. The beneficiaries are 1 million and segmented in the two modalities which I mentioned, the DIS and the e-Voucher System.


I thank you, Mr Speaker.


Mr Ng’ambi (Chifubu): Mr Speaker, from his statement this afternoon on the Floor of this House, the hon. Minister indicated that he is going to retain the K400 which beneficiaries will contribute towards the scheme. Could he confirm to the nation and this august House whether or not suppliers to the ministry have maintained the same price for inputs considering that the K400 has been maintained for a long time and a lot of other things have happened such as the depreciation of the Kwacha and all that?


Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, this is a subsidised programme. So, the Government subsidises the vulnerable, but viable farmers. That is why even the K400 has been maintained for this period. There is a component of a subsidy to the beneficiaries who get these inputs whether it is on the DIS or on the e-Voucher System modalities. So, the component of the subsidy takes care of all the issues or cost implications that the hon. Member has raised.


I thank you, Mr Speaker.


Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for this ministerial statement. Does he mean that new farmers can only be attended to after this crop of beneficiaries? Is the Government still stuck on 1 million beneficiaries for three years without any review? What happens whereby people die or shift from an area? Is the Government not making such reviews so that it can admit new beneficiaries? Does the hon. Minister not think that the Government is disadvantaging or demotivating new farmers who also would like to get on board to provide food security for their households?


Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, I gave this information on the Floor of this House that once three years elapses, we will activate new beneficiaries on the programme. When we reviewed this program and tried to activate new beneficiaries, we noted that the three year period would finish in 2021 and that is when we would have to activate the other 1 million beneficiaries. So, it will be done in 2021.


Mr Speaker, there is motivation because the Government is identifying and subsidising these farmers. So, come 2021, we should be able to bring in a new crop of beneficiaries.


Mr Speaker, Hon. Muchima should know that we are not going to just abruptly take out beneficiaries from the scheme because there is demand that we should add new farmers. We should know if these farmers are now able to stand on their feet. They have benefited from the program for quite a long time and if they are able to stand on their own and have become viable to produce well, we should get recommendations from the CAC, obviously, to engage the new beneficiaries for the next coming season, like I indicated.


I thank you, Sir.


Ms Mwape (Mkushi North): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the well elaborated ministerial statement. I must commend the Government for the early distribution of farming inputs in Mkushi under this hard working President, His Excellency Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu.


Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!


Ms Mwape: The deposits in Mkushi are being made very well. However, there are some agro- dealers who were paid by the Government, but did not supply inputs for the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) to the beneficiaries, thereby, frustrating the efforts of our hard working hon. Minister. What action is he going to take against such agro-dealers, or what message does he have for them?


Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank Hon. Mwape for the question and the kind words. We work together in these things for us to accomplish what we have accomplished in the Ministry of Agriculture.


Sir, agro-dealers who are engaging themselves in fraudulent activities or depriving beneficiaries on the programme should be brought forth before the ministry and law enforcement agencies. In concluding my statement, I indicated that those who will be found wanting in depriving beneficiaries should be reported to law enforcement agencies. Once identified, the Ministry of Agriculture will black list them. The ministry will not engage such fraudulent agro-dealers again. Like I said, the Ministry of Agriculture is committed to paying them and has started doing so. Therefore, it is incumbent upon them, with the capacity that they have, to service beneficiaries in those localities. So, hon. Members should let us have this information if they know that beneficiaries were deprived of inputs by fraudulent agro-dealers so that they can be legally caught up.


I thank you, Sir.


Mr Speaker: I will take the last four questions as follows: the hon. Member for Mitete, the hon. Member for Kafue, the hon. Member for Chasefu and the last question will be from the hon. Member for Chifunabuli.


Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for this ministerial statement. In Mitete, eighty-one farmers did not redeem their farming inputs during the 2019/2020 Farming Season. Despite the fact that the hon. Minister is now handling the 2020/2021 Farming Season, what is he going to do for those who never redeemed their inputs, but paid their K400 contribution towards the 2019/2020 Farming Season?


Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, the case by case verification is ongoing for those beneficiaries who contributed their K400, but did not redeem their inputs. So, once it is verified that they did contribute, the ministry should be able to give them their inputs. I did indicate that we have identified quite a number of challenges with the implementation of this programme. Therefore, we are doing a compressive report so that before July 2021, we are able to complete and address all matters like the one Hon. Mutelo indicated. Once verifications are completed, these beneficiaries will be given their inputs.


I thank you, Sir.


Ms Chinyama (Kafue): Mr Speaker, I took note of the response that the hon. Minister gave on the payments that have been made to agro-dealers so far. Nevertheless, I would like to find out the criterion which is being used to pay off the agro-dealers because in Kafue, most agro-dealers’ dues have remained unpaid. The hon. Minister is fully aware of this issue based on the engagement that we have had and the correspondence that went to his office. May I know the criterion that is being used because Kafue agro-dealers are crying up to now as they have not received their payments?


Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, the ministry has been engaging the hon. Member for Kafue. She has, indeed, written to the ministry. The criteria we are using is that the first batches of invoices that come to the ministry through the Department of Finance are paid first. We pay on the first come first serve basis according to the invoices that are received by the ministry. That is the method that we are using to liquidate the debt that we owe service providers, including those who the hon. Member mentioned.


I thank you, Sir.


Mr Zimba (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that statement. The people of Chasefu are thankful that he has delivered inputs on time. My question is a follow up to the question that the hon. Member for Chama South asked regarding transportation. In his statement, the hon. Minister said that farmers can come together and hire transport on their own. I witnessed one case in Chasefu where the transporters that the ministry hired charged the farmers and said that they did this because the Government would not pay them on time. Is that an anomaly, or is it theft?


Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, it is not an anomaly. It is theft because if the Ministry of Agriculture has paid transporters, or there is a provision to pay those transporters, why should they charge the beneficiaries? I said that, where possible, farmers are free to hire their own transport if they agree to do so among themselves. In some areas, this is what they do. It is upon beneficiaries themselves to agree on whether they need to use their own transport or not. Like I said, we are engaging the provincial and district leadership to resolve issues surrounding the matter of transportation. If a transporter has been paid by the Ministry of Agriculture, he is not supposed to charge beneficiaries for ferrying their inputs to their localities. When this happens, it should be reported. These are the fraudulent activities we talk about. Such transporters should be blacklisted so that they do not engage with the Ministry of Agriculture. We need people who are committed, honest and truthful to serve our hardworking small-scale farmers.


I thank you, Sir.


Mr Mecha (Chifunabuli): Mr Speaker, with your indulgence, I would like to thank the Patriotic Front (PF) Government for localising input distribution for the first time in Chifunabuli. We are no longer getting inputs from Samfya. Proper logistical support has been provided in terms of transportation. The farmers have already started getting the inputs from our local depots in Chifunabuli. 


Mr Speaker, my question is motivated by the response given by the hon. Minister to the question asked by the Lufwanyama lawmaker regarding the phasing out of old farmers from the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). Now, our youths have a lot of interest in agriculture. The Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development has done a lot of sensitisation among the youths. Many youths have formed clubs. Does the hon. Minister have any intention of engaging the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Child Development so that the youths who have formed clubs can be brought on board the FISP?


Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, on the issue of weaning farmers off the programme, I said that current farmers will be weaned off the programme in 2021 after three years of being on it. We have over 400,000 youths on the programme. We are using a multi-sectoral approach. The Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development has engaged the Ministry of Agriculture to identify youths who could be brought onto the programme. Like I said, there will be a new batch of beneficiaries in 2021. We are working with the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development to encourage our youths to engage in agricultural activities. We should be able to get recommendations from the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development in order for many youths to be identified and activated on the FISP. 


I thank you, Sir.


Ms Katuta (Chienge): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that 1.6 million farmers were going to benefit from the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). In Chienge, there are 14,800 farmers, but only 4,000 farmers are benefiting from FISP at the moment. How is the ministry going to incorporate the balance of 8,400 farmers to benefit from this programme which the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is going to introduce next season?


Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, on the block cards for Chienge, we have 14,800 farmers. Not all these 14,800 are poor farmers. The CACs identify vulnerable, but viable farmers who qualify from this number and then recommends them to the programme. Even in my constituency, Masaiti, we have a huge number of farmers, over 37,000 farmers, but only 13,000 or 12,000 are on the programme. This means that from 14,800 farmers in Chienge, only 4,000 viable and vulnerable farmers have been identified and put on the programme. It is the CACs that identify vulnerable farmers to be put on this programme.


I thank you, Mr Speaker. 


Mr Speaker: Is the hon. Member for Chitambo available now to ask his question?


Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Mr Speaker, my question was answered by the hon. Minister when he responded to the issue of having paid the suppliers.






40. Mr Zimba (Chasefu) asked the Minister of Tourism and Arts:


  1. whether the Government is aware that there is a hippo that is terrorising residents and destroying crops in Luambwa area in Susa Ward in Chasefu Parliamentary Constituency; and
  2. if so, what urgent measures are being taken to avert loss of life and further destruction of crops.


The Minister of Tourism and Arts (Mr Chitotela): Mr Speaker, the Government is aware of the hippo that is destroying crops and terrorising the residents of Luambwa area in Susa Ward in Chasefu Parliamentary Constituency.


Sir, the wildlife officers from Chasato Wildlife Camp have been detailed to control the hippo by all means. However, should the hippo continue terrorising residents, we will be left with no option, but put it down in order to ensure that the lives of the residents in the affected areas are safeguarded and crops are secured.


Mr Speaker, let me take this opportunity to encourage the members of the public to promptly report matters of human/animal conflicts to the nearest wildlife camp to ensure quick action and assistance by relevant officers.


I thank you, Mr Speaker.


Mr Zimba: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the swift action which the ministry took when this matter was reported last time, only that the wildlife officers failed to kill the animal. The last time the officers came to kill the hippo, they failed to locate to it and they promised to come back. This hippo has been terrorising the residents for close to two years now. When exactly are the wildlife officers coming to put down this hippo because they promised that they would come and put it down?


Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, on a light note, I hope my tribal cousins are not just interested in getting relish from this animal.


Sir, as I have stated, we will do everything possible to control this hippo, as a ministry. Putting it down must be the last option. If we try everything possible and we see that the hippo is not being managed, then we will have no option but to kill it. I assure the hon. Member that as I am speaking, we have officers in that area who are managing to control this hippo and he has acknowledged this. However, if it becomes uncontrollable, we will give authority for them to put it down. However, we should not rush to do that as the first option.


I thank you, Sir.


Dr Malama (Kanchibiya): Mr Speaker, this hippo has given the people infine, meaning it is too much. It is a terrorist. Therefore, will the ministry consider eliminating that terrorist and give the game meat to my tribal cousins in that area?


Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker that is what we do. Last time this matter was reported, we managed to control the hippo. That is why we moved it from the area where it has been terrorising the people, but again it is back, and there is a report which we also verified. We will consider that option and once it is put down, we will feed the people of Susa Ward in Chasefu Parliamentary Constituency. I can tell the desire by the area hon. Member that the first option must be killing it. We will consider that option seriously.


I thank you, Sir.


Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is urging stakeholders, including the hon. Members of Parliament, to report all unruly hippos and other wild animals. We always do that and I spoke to the hon. Minister last time and showed him photos of somebody who had been maimed by a hippo. He graciously gave instructions for the hippo to be killed. Of course, we will be happy to eat such an animal for all the injury it has caused, but somehow officers make so many trips and fail to control or kill these animals. So, does the hon. Minister really give orders for such animals to be controlled or killed or maybe he just says these things to please us and then underneath he instructs that the animal should not be killed?


Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, we have a mandate as the Government to safeguard and preserve the lives of the people of Zambia. We do not speak just to please those who are listening. In the quest to control a misbehaving animal, we cannot just go and wantonly kill everything. That is why the wildlife officers indentify which ones, among so many species of animals, is causing problems when they go to a certain area.


Sir, I remember when the hon. Member of Parliament reported the case he mentioned, we sent officers to the area and they did control the animal. However, if a repeat of that situation has happened, we will have no choice, but to take necessary measures. I am not talking about putting the animal down, but controlling it. There are two different ways of controlling wildlife, if you are able to do so.


Mr Speaker, maybe to demonstrate, I should give an example of how hippos behave, more especially when they attack people on water. It is not the hippo that necessarily attacks somebody. This happens when people pass near the animal, more especially when it has calves. In such a situation where it wants to protect and defend its calves, it will attack the intruder. Once such an incident is reported, we send officers to go and check and try to control the animal. If the animal becomes uncontrollable, then we give direction that it should be killed, of course with a view to save and preserve human life.


Sir, that is why even last time, I did emphasise that we need to continue engaging the people who live along the water bodies where there are crocodiles and hippos, as well as those who are found in the Game Management Areas (GMAs) and near the national parks. They need to know that they should learn to coexist with the wildlife. I was just speaking to one of the traditional leaders in the Western Province who said that right now, there are a lot of elephants that are moving from the national parks going to the Zambezi River to drink water. Whenever the animals are passing, people are harassing them. So, I, again, engaged the Department of National Parks and Wildlife (DNPW) to go and sensitise the people that they should not be harassing the wildlife because once an animal charges, it can cause destruction and then people will say that they are being attacked by wildlife.


Mr Speaker, we need to enhance sensitisation among our people, so that they can learn to coexist with wildlife. However, the ultimate solution to a situation where the animal becomes a danger to a community, because we treasure human life more than wildlife, is to give instructions that the animal be killed. I will engage Hon. Dr Musokotwane after I have called my officers in the Western Province to find out what happened in Liuwa. I even flew to that area to confirm the situation. If the animal was not killed, I will check what happened.


I thank you, Sir.


Mr Speaker: I will take the last two questions from the hon. Member for Chitambo and the hon. Member for Bahati.


Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Mr Speaker, as an hon. Member of Parliament who belongs to the parliamentary grouping on conservation, I am a bit worried when I hear about the killing of wildlife. What measures is the hon. Minister putting in place to deal with the situation in Chasefu? Can the hon. Minister be specific in terms of the control mechanisms so that we know what he is putting in place? If those measures fail, we can all be convinced that this is what led to the killing of this animal.


Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, the measures we undertake, include but not limited to, firstly, removing the animal from the area where it is terrorising people and destroying crops to take it to the area where it usually lives. Secondly, if an animal strays within a community, there are guidelines we follow. I think we all know what happened in Chilanga when a lion moved from the zoological area in Munda Wanga. We managed to capture it and we brought it back to where it is supposed to be. If we try all those means and all possible areas of control fail, then we remain with no option, but to put the animal down. However, I want to assure the hon. Member, our co-operating partners and the people of Zambia that putting down wildlife in any given situation is the last resort that this Government will ever take to control an animal. We will do everything possible to make sure that our wildlife is controlled, but if we fail, then we shall remain with no option, but to put them down, with a view to protect and preserve human life.


Mr Speaker, like I said, other measures include engaging communities. We embark on community sensitisation so that our people who live with wildlife are also educated on the need to co-exist and know the importance of our wildlife economy. This is because our people who live near wildlife are the greatest beneficiaries in terms of the economic activities.


I thank you, Sir.


Mr Chalwe (Bahati): Mr Speaker, following the hon. Minister’s response, I would like to find out if the ministry has a policy on dealing with such matters, especially that we have crocodiles in Lake Bangweulu in Samfya.


Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, yes, we have a wildlife policy which guides the control measures that we implement whenever we are dealing with the controlling and cropping of wildlife. We do not just kill wildlife because there is a complaint or somebody has raised an alarm. If we did, all our natural resources would deplete because some people may be driven by the desire for bush meat while others by the desire to engage in business activities. So, such people may falsely claim to be affected by the wildlife or terrorised by the animals. If we do not follow the measures that have been laid down, we will remain with nothing. Tourism is largely driven by wildlife. So, we ensure that we preserve and protect our wildlife and also engage the communities.


Sir, I must emphasise that we work with the Community Resource Boards (CRBs). However, we had owed all the CRBs in Zambia money, but in February this year, we cleared all the money that we owed to them for the past five to six years, amounting to over K19 million. The communities in these areas are very happy. I know that they are seeing the benefits of co-existing with wildlife because they are the biggest beneficiaries. As I stated the other day, whenever hunters conduct trophy hunting and when an animal is killed, all the meat is given to the community. Communities benefit in terms of meat and the financial support that comes from trophy hunting. So, our communities must be sensitised and educated on the need to coexist with wildlife.


I thank you, Sir.









Mr Daka (Msanzala): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Parliamentary Select Committee appointed to scrutinise the presidential appointment of Mr Christopher Mphanza Mvunga to serve as Governor of the Bank of Zambia (BoZ).


Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?


Mr A. C. Mumba (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.


Mr Daka: Sir, the appointment of Mr Christopher Mphanza Mvunga to serve as Governor of the BoZ is pursuant to Article 214 of the Constitution, Chapter 1 of the Laws of Zambia and Section 10 of the Bank of Zambia Act, Chapter 360 of the Laws of Zambia.


Mr Speaker, in scrutinising the appointment, the Committee notes that the BoZ Governor plays a crucial role in formulating and implementing monetary and supervisory policies that maintain the exchange rate and financial system stability in Zambia. In this regard, the Committee resolved that only a competent person with unquestionable integrity, diligence, eminence and sound character should serve the nation as Governor of the BoZ.


Sir, the Committee notes with satisfaction that all the state security agencies indicated that there were no adverse security concerns against the nominee. Additionally, the other stakeholders generally submitted that the nominee was suitably qualified and possessed the requisite experience to be appointed as Governor of the BoZ.


Mr Speaker, the Committee further observes that the majority of the witnesses described the nominee as a person with a good understanding of the economic trends of the country, a strategic thinker and a team builder. They also submitted that he has the requisite academic qualifications and professional experience to serve as Governor of the BoZ. In this regard, they supported his appointment.


Sir, the Committee observes that the nominee has the requisite experience in both fiscal and monetary policy matters with vast experience in the public and private sectors. The Committee notes that the nominee’s appointment as Deputy Minister of Finance and later Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet in charge of finance and economic development made him an integral part of the management of the country’s fiscal affairs. The Committee also observes that his experience in the private sector has assisted him to amass vast experience in audit, accounting and finance and an understanding of the country’s monetary affairs.


Mr Speaker, after due thorough consideration, analysis and evaluation of the written and oral submissions presented to the Committee by witnesses and the nominee, it is of the view that the nominee is suitably qualified and possesses the requisite competences to serve as Governor of the BoZ. In view of this, the Committee recommends that this august House ratifies the presidential appointment of Mr Christopher Mphanza Mvunga to serve as Governor of the BoZ.


Sir, finally, the members of the Committee wish to place on record their gratitude to you for appointing them to serve on this Select Committee. The Committee is also thankful for the services and advice rendered to it by the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly during its deliberations.


Mr Speaker, I beg to move.


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?


Mr A. C. Mumba: Now, Mr Speaker.


Sir, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to second this Motion. I would also like to thank the mover of the Motion for the able manner in which he ably highlighted some of the salient points that your Committee observed during the deliberations on the ratification of the appointment of Mr Christopher Mphanza Mvunga as Bank of Zambia (BoZ) Governor.


Mr Speaker, the Committee realised that we are in very difficult economic times. Thus, there was need for a fresh mind to go to the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) to support the monetary policy of our country and the banking sector. We also needed an individual who understands the fiscal side of the activities of the Government. Looking at his curriculum vitae and the presentations that were made, it was very clear that His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Lungu, made the right choice. Therefore, your Committee is satisfied with the appointment.


Sir, I would like to end by wishing him well and I thank the members of our Committee for all the contributions that they made.


Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.


Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to debate the appointment of Mr Mvunga as Governor of the Bank of Zambia (BoZ).


Mr Speaker, the BoZ is one of the most important institutions in this country. The monetary policies of the BoZ affect everyone in the country. It, therefore, follows that whoever is appointed to lead this organisation should be a person who is acceptable and qualified to lead it particularly during the financial crisis we are facing.


Mr Speaker, as I debate this Motion, allow me to quote from the Constitution of the Patriotic Front (PF) and I will address the relevance of the issue to the appointment. I would like to quote Article (3) –




Mr Speaker: Hon. Mwiimbu, resume your seat.


Hon. Members, we are dealing with a very serious issue here. You should not trivialise it with those running commentaries. You are trivialising an earnest matter. The hon. Member is free to do what he wants to do. The manifesto is a public document. It is in the public domain. I do not want to belabour this point.


Continue hon. Member for Monze Central.


Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, as I indicated, I am going to quote the provision of Article (3) of the Constitution of the PF and it says:


“The party shall ensure that all the public institutions, State-owned enterprises and popular mass and similar organisations are led by persons who are members of the party and who are uncompromisingly committed to achievements of the party.”


Mr Speaker, that is one major qualification for someone to serve the people of Zambia: he/she must be a party cadre according to the PF Constitution. It, therefore, follows and my understanding is that the first criterion the PF had to consider was that this individual whom we are considering today needed to be a party cadre who should uncompromisingly follow the views of the PF.


Mr Speaker, this is one very important institution that should be apolitical, where we should only consider professionalism as paramount, but the PF in its constitution has told the nation that everyone in this country who holds a very senior position in State-owned enterprises and public institutions is supposed to be a party cadre. According to the PFs Constitution, the position of Governor of the BoZ should be held by a person who is a cadre unless they are refusing.


Mr Speaker, it is my considered view that whenever the Government is considering appointments, it should not be dwell on what it believes in as PF. That is why most of the institutions in this country are failing because of this clause that the PF is using.


Mr Ngulube: On a point of order, Sir.


Mr Speaker: Hon. Mwiimbu, just give me a minute. There will be no points of order. Just wait for your turn to debate. That is all.


Continue hon. Member for Monze Central.


Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I am expressing a concern as a member of the public and Leader of the Opposition that when we are appointing people to serve this country, we should always look at professionalism and diligence to serve, and not party affiliation. That is why I am saying that the institutions in this country are failing because of this clause in the PF Constitution. I have no doubt in my mind that if there was any person who had the requisite qualifications, but he/she was not a PF member, he would not be appointed unless the party decided to disown its constitution.


Mr Ngulube interjected.


Mr Mwiimbu: The United Party for National Development (UPND) Constitution does not talk about that.


Mr Speaker: Hon. Mwiimbu, just give me a minute.


Hon. Ngulube, you are the Deputy Government Chief Whip, but you are in the forefront violating the rules.


Please continue, hon. Member for Monze Central.


Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I also want to take note of the statement the hon. Minister of Finance made on the Floor of this House when he was delivering the Budget Speech. He mentioned that the country is in a crisis and that the economy needed to be resuscitated. Last week, the hon. Minister of Finance issued a letter of intent to defer the payments of the Eurobonds and other debts that are accruing in the country. The international lenders are looking at what is going to happen today in relation to the appointment of the Governor of the BoZ because that individual will be part of the delegation that will be led by the hon. Minister of Finance when negotiating with the lenders. However, when they read that this individual is being appointed paramountly because he is a cadre of the PF, the lenders will have no confidence in our delegation and we will be doing a disservice to this country. Why should we be doing such things?


Mr Speaker, it is my considered view that this individual does not qualify to be appointed. The mover of the Motion stated that this individual must be of very high integrity. That is what he said. However, I am not going to talk about his persona, which is in the public domain. What are they telling the nation over the issue of integrity according to the Committee’s report? These issues do not just affect this country. The issues which we are looking at affect the international community as well. Some lenders are concerned about this issue. Maybe that is why yesterday, a club of lenders said that it was not going to agree to Zambia’s request. It is because of such things that we are doing as a nation. Why should we be doing a disservice to our nation?


Mr Speaker, I am not questioning the authority to make appointments. What I am saying is that whenever we make an appointment, we must be considerate. We must bear in mind the views of other people and the international community. Immediately this particular individual was given the appointment, there was a debate. There were a lot of issues that were raised. Even members of the international community raised issues.


Mr Speaker, the BoZ is a very critical institution. You must take note, hon. Colleagues, that today, the exchange rate between the United States Dollar and the Kwacha is 20.50. If we make a mistake, by next week, the Kwacha will melt and the economy will be affected. Being a resident and citizen, whatever decision is going to be made today will affect me and everybody else. When we make decisions, we must always take into account its effect on the people of Zambia.


Mr Speaker, with those few remarks, I do not support this particular Motion.


I thank you, Sir.


Mr Kabanda (Serenje): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for according the people of Serenje an opportunity to debate this very important appointment of Mr Christopher Mphanza Mvunga as Governor of the Bank of Zambia (BoZ).


Mr Speaker, Mr Mvunga brings with him a wealth of experience and multi skills to the banking sector. You will recall that from 2005, Mr Mvunga has always been in the team of Zambian negotiators to the Spring Meetings at the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund (IMF). From that experience, Mr Mvunga understands what goes on at the Central Bank, the lender of the last resort.


Mr Speaker, contrary to what other people have been saying that Mr Christopher Mvunga does not merit the position that has been given to him at BoZ, he possesses the requisite qualifications in accounting. He is a member of the Association of Chartered Certified Accountants (ACCA) of the United Kingdom (UK). Mr Christopher Mvunga will bring to the Central Bank a wealth of experience because he understands the fiscal policies of the Patriotic Front (PF) and this country at large.


Sir, to say that this Government has appointed a cadre to a very important position does not merit the position that Mr Christopher Mvunga will hold at the BOZ.


Mr Speaker, further, Mr Christopher Mvunga understands what goes on at the Ministry of Finance because he was once hon. Deputy Minister for the ministry for this country.  He is therefore, capable of holding that supervisory position of all the commercial banks in this country.


Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for the opportunity.


Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, let me begin by saying we are in trouble with this appointment as a country.


Mr Speaker, in animal nutrition, when making a concentrate, you do not blend the feed by adding the same type of raw materials, but by blending different types of ingredients to come up with a high protein content feed or high total digestible nutrients.


Mr Speaker, what we are now seeing under the Patriotic Front (PF) regime is that ...


Mr Michelo was inaudible.


Mr Michelo: ... if a friend of the party is your tribesman, that is when you can receive an appointment. The position of Governor of the Bank of Zambia is one of the highest positions in the country. There is no way we can appoint an individual, who has never held a high profile position, to manage such an important institution in the land. I, therefore, doubt if he is the right candidate to hold this important position. Even his social behaviour does not allow him to hold such an important position.


Mr Speaker, what we have seen in the PF is that it wants to make a concentrate using the same type of raw materials and expect positive results. No, we are not going to allow that as Zambians. Things do not work like that. What do you expect from a community of dancers? To keep on ...


Mr Michelo was inaudible.


Mr Michelo: ...and expect to manage this economy. I doubt if the gentleman being appointed today is even honest.


Mr. Michelo was inaudible.


 The wage bill for the institution is the highest in Zambia. What is being proposed will just increase overheads, but will gain international credibility? Is he the right person? My answer is completely ‘No.’


Mr Speaker, I do not think the people of Zambia are happy. I know that even the international community is not going to be happy. I definitely expect the US Dollar to keep gaining against our Kwacha because of such individuals who are not capable of managing such positions. That position needs a person of high integrity, like the person whom His Excellency President Edgar Chagwa Lungu removed from the position, Dr Kalyalya. Those are the people who need to manage our economy and not the one whose appointment is being proposed. You are going to see a miracle coming into this country the moment this man’s appointment is ratified today. I do not support this ratification.


I thank you, Sir.


Dr Malama (Kanchibiya): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank His Excellency the President for nominating such an eminent person to the position of Governor for the Bank of Zambia (BoZ). My people say uulelila, taba mucheba pa kanwa. Our friends just lost the elections in Lukashya and Mwansabombwe.




Mr Speaker: Order!


Hon. Member for Kanchibiya, did you translate what you said? I would like you to first translate the saying.


Dr Malama: Mr Speaker, I was saying uulelila, taba mucheba pa kanwa, meaning our colleagues are still mourning the loss. So, what you are hearing is not a reflection about the candidate who has been appointed to serve as BoZ Governor.  


Mr Speaker, your Committee looked at the eminence of this nominee and we are all able to see what it has come up with in this report. Even the people that your Committee interviewed have stated how eminent this nominee is. The hon. Members have talked about the sentiments of the international community regarding this nominee. When someone gets drunk, and after cooking nshima or chicken in a country down south and then goes to Twitter and says, “No, we are going to hold the President of the Republic of Zambian to account for having appointed this person”, those are not the people we should be quoting.


Mr Speaker, in Zambia, we have got the Constitution of Zambia. The constitutional requirements have been met in the appointment of Mr Mvunga. Mr Mvunga is going to BoZ at a time our country has going through many challenges. Let me also appreciate the former Governor of BoZ, Dr Kalyalya who was appointed by this Patriotic Front (PF) Government in 2015. He was appointed by the same President who did not look at where he came from because it is “One Zambia, One Nation.”


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


Dr Malama: Mr Speaker, when Dr Kalyalya was appointed as BOZ Governor, our hon. Colleagues on your left did not say that he was a cadre and yet that is the same office Mr Mvunga is going to occupy. Today, they want to rise and say that the one who has been appointed is a cadre. I do not know what I can call such people. I just want to say that as Mr Mvunga gets to BoZ, he should ensure that he works. He has seen the way our President works. People talk, particularly those on your left. They try to say that the President and the PF Government are not working, but when they drive out of these premises, they are able to see a lot of what is happening in this country.


Sir, I therefore, wish to urge Mr Mvunga that as he gets to BoZ, he should ensure that he infuses hope in the financial sector. The monetary policy was set, and I am sure he knows how the fiscal policy is run in this country. He should ensure that the Central Bank plays the key role in this country’s foreign exchange market. This country has got gold. We should make sure that the gold that is being mined has an effect on our foreign exchange. Mr Mvunga should ensure that there is discipline in the commercial banks of our country. He should ensure that he is a good fiscal agent or adviser to the Government. As Chairperson of the Board of BoZ, he must ensure that he provides leadership, which we know him for. He has been a leader for a long time and above all, he should commit all he does to God.


Mr Speaker, I thank you.


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Jere (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to add a strong voice to the Motion on behalf of the people of Livingstone and Zambia at large.


Mr Speaker, I would like to salute Dr Danny Kalyalya for diligently serving this country and for refusing to be manipulated. From the onset, I would like to state that my observations on this nominee are not personal. I also wish to state that at one point, we drunk water from the same well with this nominee.


Mr Speaker, the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) is 100 per cent State-owned. This means that the people of Zambia own the Central Bank. The people of Zambia thought of enshrining the qualifications for whoever wishes to take up the job of Governor in the Constitution. One of them is that of integrity. The Oxford Dictionary defines the word ‘integrity’ as the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles. That resonates very well with Article 8 of the Constitution of Zambia when it comes to national values and principles. However, it calls for someone with morals and ethics.


Sir, the general public, both local and abroad, raised concerns on the nominee. These concerns should not be ignored by this august House and the appointing authority. There is no smoke without fire. I, therefore, wish to state that the functions of BoZ call for someone who is not only experienced or a member of the Zambia Institute of Chartered Accounts (ZICA), but also someone who has got a moral standing in the community. That is someone who can be respected.


Mr Speaker, the people of Zambia attach greater importance to the Central Bank bearing in mind that it is the one which grants loans to the communities and other financial service institutions. That being the case, we are very concerned that a person who has been appointed to this office must possess all the qualifications as enshrined in our Constitution.


Sir, it is disheartening that nowadays, appointments are predictable. Whenever there is a vacancy, the one to take up the position will be either from the eastern or the northern parts of this country. This is against Article 259 of our Constitution which states that whoever has got the authority and the power to appoint must take into consideration regional diversity. If you look at the Board of Directors at BoZ, you will see that there is the Vice-Chairperson who is Professor Ng’ambi. The other members of the Board of Directors are Dr A. Mwamba, Mr B. Mumba and Ms R. M. Chabala. This is not reflecting our national character. I thought that if the appointing authority looked at regional diversity, consideration was going to be made regarding those regions which are not represented on the board. I have observed that gender representation is also not balanced. It goes without saying that the appointment has failed in many areas of the integrity test and therefore, I am not supporting it on behalf of the people of Livingstone.


Mr Speaker, I thank you.


The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Motion ably moved by the hon. Member of Parliament for Msanzala, Hon. Peter Daka and ably seconded by the Member of Parliament for Kantanshi, Hon. Antony Mumba.


Mr Speaker, I am just a bit concerned about the trend of trying to avoid procedures. This is an institution of procedures and the Motion on the Floor is accompanied by a report of your Committee. When we see people engaging in debates which are not premised on the report, it is worrying. I say so because the whole essence of you constituting a Committee to scrutinise the appointments of the President of the Republic of Zambia is for a purpose. So, it is shocking that we are reducing the debate to issues that are not supposed to be brought to this august House.


  Mr Speaker, in scrutinising the nominee, your Committee invited submissions from State security agencies. It also interacted with professional bodies, among which were the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC), Banker's Association of Zambia (BAZ), Zambia Institute of Chartered Accountants (ZICA), Zambia Chamber of Commerce and Industry (ZACCI), Transparency International Zambia (TIZ), Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) and the Economics Association of Zambia (EAZ).


Mr Speaker, from all the submissions, which are contained in this report, your Committee made observations. The observations were premised on the submissions of these very important institutions. The President of the Republic of Zambia used the same wisdom he used to appoint the eminent former Governor of the Central Bank to select the current nominee. He relied on the Constitution. He is sworn to uphold the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia and nothing else.


Mr Speaker, in its recommendation, the Committee stated, and I quote:


“The Committee, after due and thorough consideration, analysis and evaluation of the written and oral submissions presented to it by the witnesses and the interview with the nominee, is of the considered view that the nominee is eminently qualified and possesses the requisite competences to serve as Governor of the Bank of Zambia.”


Mr Speaker, this is in the report of your Committee. It is shameful to come here and start concocting things premised on ethnicity. As Zambians, we should try to ignore those that want to divide the nation premised on ethnicity.


Mr Speaker, the Constitution is very clear on who should be nominated to head the Central Bank. We pay due respect to the former Governor of the Bank of Zambia (BoZ), who was equally identified by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia. We wish him well in his future endeavours.


Mr Speaker, according to this report, the current nominee has all the qualifications. I have gone through all the submissions made by the institutions that your Committee interacted with and none of them has any negative report. They are all saying he is eminently qualified. We are relying on the report of the Committee. Those that have come here with ethnic emotions informing their decisions are in a wrong place.


Mr Speaker, in conclusion, we urge the new nominee to settle down and get to work. He has a lot of work to do and is privileged to have an hon. Minister of Finance who is a former Deputy Governor at the Bank of Zambia. Therefore, the two of them will be equal to the task to ensure that the Central Bank shapes the economy of this country through the recommended economic recovery plan by the Ministry of Finance.


I thank you, Mr Speaker.


Mr Miti (Feira): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving an opportunity to the people of Feira, through me, to debate the Motion on the Floor of this august House. I have gone through the report of the Select Committee and have thoroughly scrutinised it. I really agree with your Select Committee that all the witnesses that attended its deliberations described Mr Christopher Mvunga as a competent person with vast experience in economic affairs.


Mr Speaker, Mr Christopher Mvunga has held high profile positions before in this country and, indeed, internationally. Even recently, he held a very high profile position. So, it is myopic and misleading to state that he does not have experience. It is also misleading to state that he was appointed by the President on political grounds. That statement is totally misleading.


M Speaker, the witnesses that appeared before the Select Committee included professional bodies that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs has mentioned. These professional bodies which are competent enough to read the economic trends of this country as well the globe found Mr Christopher Mvunga to be a strategic thinker who is equal to the task of being at the apex of managing the monitory policies of this country.


Mr Speaker, personally, I find Mr Christopher Mvunga to be a reservoir of knowledge that cannot be ignored.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I join your Select Committee which has recommended that the appointment of Mr Christopher Mvunga be ratified by this august House. I support the Motion.


I thank you, Sir.


The Minister of Fisheries and Livestock (Prof. Luo): Mr Speaker, I want to support the Motion that was ably moved by Hon. Peter Daka on the nomination of Mr Christopher Mvunga to serve as Governor of the Bank of Zambia (BoZ).


Mr Speaker, this nominee is an accomplished gentleman. He holds various qualifications and notable among them is that he is a fellow of the Association of Chartered Certified Accountants (ACCA). People should distinguish certain positions. When you are called a fellow, it means that you are accomplished.


Hon. PF Member: Hear, hear!


Prof. Luo: He is not only a fellow of the ACCA only, but also a fellow of the Zambia Institute of Chartered Accountants (ZICA). What else are we looking for? When we look at his experience, Mr Christopher Mvunga started working in banks right here in Zambia. He worked for the Standard Bank. He then worked for various audit firms and later moved on to South Africa. When he was appointed by Standard Chartered Bank, which is a branch of the Standard Bank, he did not only look after South Africa, but Central Africa which includes countries such as Zimbabwe, Zambia and Malawi. However, we come here and belittle our own people that are so well qualified and educated by reducing them to nothing. I think this is unacceptable.


Mr Speaker, they are hiding behind the so called international community. Which international community are we talking about? It was this same nominee who was educated in various countries including the United Kingdom (UK) and the United States of America (USA). Why would the people in the international community not celebrate a person that was trained by them and got high qualifications from their institutions?


Mr Speaker, I think we should not be petty. At our level, we are supposed to provide leadership. This gentleman has held prestigious positions. He has also been a consultant to many companies and international groups. For them to hire him as a consultant is not a mean achievement. His exposure, both locally and internationally, speaks for itself.  In fact, what makes one a better human being is not having a qualification such as a degree, but being exposed and being able to travel worldwide by finding oneself on delegations where one negotiates for big things. This gentleman has done it. What other achievements are we looking for? Just because you are in the Opposition does not mean that you must oppose everything. This type of politics is not right. In fact, watch other parliaments. Members from other parliaments can beg to disagree on any issue, but when there is something that everyone should rally behind, they get together and rally behind it.


Dr Malama: Correct.


Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, I want to say that His Excellency the President of this Republic, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, has given us the right nominee. Let us celebrate our own. This thing of Pull Him Down (PHD), bringing everybody down because you want to promote certain agendas is not going to help this country.


Hon.PF Members: Hear, hear!


Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, I want to repeat what I said yesterday that we should watch our tongues. Even the escalation of the Kwacha has been caused by the same people that are talking today due to their bad language. They create an impression that the country is in a crisis when it is not. If they are in crisis themselves, they should deal with their crisis.


Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!


Prof. Luo: They should not bring this crisis to Zambia.


Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!


Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, I am a great believer that the President made a sound judgement. I only look forward to Mr Christopher Mvunga going to represent us as Zambians. I look forward to him representing our children and our children’s children and making sure we bring back the Kwacha to where it was. Some of the people we are celebrating are in fact responsible for some of the things that we are going through. So, I think that we should be honest in the way we do things. We should be critical thinkers and bring that value to this House instead of demeaning it by bringing debates that say nothing when they are evaluated and critiqued. 


Mr Speaker, I want to support this nomination and look forward to us as Zambians celebrating a very accomplished human being.


I thank you, Mr Speaker.


Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!


Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, my first point is that we have always advised this Government. Even the Kwacha would not have depreciated to K20 per US$1 had those in Government been paying attention because we had been advising them on the Floor not to borrow like they used to. However, today, it is our responsibility, again, to advise them. If they create a crisis, they should not say we never advised them. So, we will advise them.


Mr Speaker, the Constitution barely outlines the basics of the qualifications that are required for a person to be Governor of the Bank of Zambia (BoZ). Of course, it is broad range and includes accountant, banker, macro-economist and so on and so forth. It is normal in a Constitution. However, let me tell you the truth. When it comes to the basics of what kind of a human being you need to lead the Central Bank, the answer is very clear. You need a well trained macro-economist and not an energy or agricultural economist, and preferably at graduate level, of course, backed-up with experience.


Mr Speaker, if you look back even at the history of BoZ, you will see a clear trend from the time it was managed by commercial bankers, accountants and lawyers to the time it was managed by macro-economists. The result is so different and clear for everybody to see that when a macro-economist is at the helm of this institution, you are safe and sound.


Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!


Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I would not even dare put a former commercial banker in the Central Bank because their thinking is different. For a commercial banker, money is a raw material. They want it as much as possible because that is what they learnt, to make money. It is completely the opposite for a central banker to whom money is like the medicine you give to a patient. You only administer that which is required to make the person okay.


Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!


Dr Musokotwane: If you give it in excess amounts, as I seem to be hearing from some people, you are going to have inflation of 1,000,000 or 1,000,000,000 per cent in this country as has happened to so many other countries in the world. So, a macro-economist, and a good one for that matter, is what you actually require.


Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!


Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, let me now come back to the issue of the proposed governor. He is a good man. He is my friend, but I would not have chosen him because he is not a good macro-economist. He is well qualified in the area where he has been trained, as an accountant.


Hon. Member: Question!


Dr Musokotwane: He is very good at that and I am sure he can deploy it in areas like that. However, this is a job for macro-economists. When you look at these central bankers here in Zambia that I described, who were very successful, such as Dr Jacob Mwanza, Dr Caleb Fundanga and Denny Kalyalya, you can clearly see that what is happening now is a departure from that calibre of human beings that I am talking about.


Mr Speaker, I would have advised that they take somebody from amongst the good macro-economists within the Bank of Zambia today. Alternatively, there are a number of Deputy Governors who have retired, but I will not name them. There are there and are eminently qualified. Even former directors at the bank could have been considered. If we do not do that, we are taking a very big and serious risk, especially this time. Under normal circumstances, it would have been alright, but now is not the time for learning because we are in a crisis. We need somebody who is able to hold things right from the word go. So, for now, I am sorry, I am not happy.


Mr Speaker, I thank you.


Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!


The Minister of Finance (Dr Ng’andu): Mr Speaker, I am grateful for this opportunity to speak on the confirmation of the appointment of Mr Mvunga as Governor of the Central Bank. Firstly, I would like to begin by thanking the Chairperson of the Select Committee, Hon. Daka and members of the Parliamentary Select Committee who scrutinised the Presidential appointment of Mr Mvunga and thank them for a report which was thorough and fairly balanced in its approach. It is gratifying to note that the report has found Mr Mvunga suitably qualified to hold the eminent position of Governor of the Central Bank.


Mr Speaker, I want to emphasise the point here that the appointment has been in keeping with the provisions of Part 17 of the Constitution of Zambia and Section 10 of the Bank of Zambia Act. These are the same provisions which have been used by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government in appointing the previous two Governors of the Central Bank. Nothing has changed in that respect. I would just like to read from the Constitution for the attention of the House:


“214.   (1) There shall be a Governor of the Bank of Zambia who shall be appointed by the President, subject to ratification by the National Assembly, and who shall be—

  1. a citizen;
  2. a person who has specialised training and experience in economics, finance, accounting, banking, law or other fields relevant to banking, as prescribed;”


Mr Speaker, it is very clear that the appointment has been made in keeping in line with the Constitution, and it is the right appointment in that respect.


Sir, I want to speak about the qualifications of the individual that has been appointed. Mr Mvunga, as has been noted before, has requisite specialised training in finance and accounting being a holder of qualifications that include the Association of Chartered Certified Accountants (ACCA) and fellow of both the ACCA of the United Kingdom and a fellow of the Zambian Institute of Chartered Accountants (ZICA). His experience over thirty years spans the areas of auditing, commercial banking, public and economic policy formulation in the Ministry of Finance and Cabinet Office where he served until his appointment. Therefore, what he brings to the job is the breadth and depth of experience required to meet the various facets of central banking work. This includes monetary policy, implementation and formulation, supervision of the banking systems, handling matters to do with financial system stability regulation, currency management, and systems payments. I think it is important for me to say something about the systems payments.


Sir, right now the world is going through drastic changes with respect to technology and the role that it is playing in the management of the payment systems. Given that, what we are looking for is a person who is innovative, who can embrace technology and can be able to provide the leadership that will require the improvement of new payment system in line with the growth of the economy and advancement in technology, and Mr Mvunga brings that to the table.


Mr Speaker, Mr Mvunga is an independent and deep thinker. I have no doubt that he will do one of the major things required in his job and that is to uphold the professionalism of the Central Bank and also to safeguard the operational independence of the Central Bank. Mr Mvunga is not a push over, but a person that will do his job in a manner that will not compromise the operational independence of the Central Bank. That is the quality that he will bring to this job.


Sir, I have had an opportunity and privilege of working with him at a professional level. I know him as a professional and I can attest to his professional competence, meticulous attention to detail, and focus on delivering results. He is a dependable individual. We are talking about integrity. What is integrity? It is about honesty. Moreover, the reports we have received have not questioned his integrity. It is about being dependable and about a person who does what he says he will do.  A person who means what he says, and that is Mr Mvunga.


Mr Speaker, Mr Mvunga is endowed with very unique and rare clarity of mind and that gift, unfortunately, is not given to all of us. All we can do is just envy him for that quality. That is the quality that he will bring to the Central Bank. I therefore, wholeheatedly support the ratification of the appointment of Mr Mvunga as Governor of the Central Bank.


I thank you, Sir.


The Minister of Justice (Mr Lubinda): Mr Speaker, let me start by commending your Committee for the manner in which it interrogated the nominee. I would also like to commend all the witnesses who appeared before you Committee. All of them, without exception, attested to the fact that Mr Mvunga is eminently qualified to hold the position for which he is being nominated. In addition, all of them, without exception, recommended his appointment for ratification by Parliament. Indeed, like those who have spoken before me have stated, Mr Christopher Mvunga has had a wide experience and is suitably qualified to lead the Central Bank.


Sir, we have a person in this House who is former Deputy Governor of BoZ who moved from that position to being hon. Minister of Finance. He qualified at the level of Deputy Governor of BoZ and he also qualified as hon. Minister. Mr Mvunga is doing the reverse. After having being hon. Deputy Minister, he went and served as Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet responsible for finance and economic development. He is now going to head the Bank of Zambia. I have heard the argument that a person should be a macroeconomist for him to run the bank. This is what I have kept talking about. When we come to this House, we must dare to read. Let us not come to posture. Let us read. If there is anything that we find amiss in the law, we need to remember that it is this Parliament that makes laws.


Mr Speaker, we gave people an opportunity to come and tell us what they wanted to change in the Constitution, but the macroeconomists shied-away. Now they come here and say that we need a macroeconomist to be the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) Governor, yet the law states very clearly that even an accounting person can be the governor. Even a lawyer can be the BoZ Governor. Where were they when the Constitution was being written? They were here, but they did not argue the case. Today, it has become relevant for them to argue. Yesterday I talked about relevance.


Mr Speaker, let me move to another issue of consistency. In 2011, President Sata appointed Dr Gondwe to head the bank. Nobody at that stage referred to Article 3 of the Patriotic Front (PF) Constitution. In 2016, President Edgar Lungu appointed Dr Denny Kalyalya to head the BoZ. Nobody referred to Article 3 of the PF Constitution. Today, it has become an issue. Why has it become an issue? I heard someone make a statement similar to the one we heard yesterday, that we must have diversity of representation. For heaven’s sake, there is only one position of Governor of the BoZ. That Governor of BoZ must come from a particular region for them to see that there is diversity. They are saying that this is tribal and nepotism because the nominee does not come from the region that they like. When is it not going to be nepotism? There are not ten governors of the bank. There is only one. There can only be one region represented when there is only one position.


Mr Speaker, somebody spoke about integrity. The judgement of integrity is a subjective issue. If you want to judge people’s integrity, expose them to the same test and see who has integrity and who does not. In this particular case, Mr Christopher Mvunga was put to a test that others failed. I want to refer to the report. Page 20 of the report states as follows:


“Performed a varied range of assignments including preparation and evaluation of business plans for small, medium and multinational corporations, advising and raising project finance for clients, company valuations,…”


Sir, here is the crux of the matter which is as follows:


“… negotiating the sale of unlisted companies with the Zambia Privatisation Agency, …”


Sir, have others been exposed to this test? How did they perform?


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Lubinda: How did Mr Christopher Mvunga perform? To date, the others are failing to account for what they did and how they made decisions. Yet, nobody has questioned what he did. Who, therefore, qualifies to be called a man of integrity? From where I stand, Mr Christopher Mvunga acquitted himself exceedingly well. He is a man of morality. He is a very honest person.


Mr Speaker, some people have talked about his social conduct. If a person just happens to be unfortunate to have friends who like social media, and when in the company of his friends, one of his friends takes a picture of him dancing and flashes it on social media, should that be used to judge him and his morality? No. That is not fair. It is not fair to judge people based on small things. Let us judge people by the big issues they handle, such as what they do when they are entrusted with the responsibility to represent their people in the execution of public interest. That is what we must be using to judge people’s integrity. When Mr Christopher Mvunga was an hon. Member of Parliament, nobody raised this issue, but today, because he has been appointed Governor of BoZ, the matter has been raised. This is not correct. This is not fair.


Mr Speaker, I also want to state that when constitutions are written, all of them are written to be subservient to the Republican Constitution. Irrespective of what the PF Constitution says, His Excellency, the President, was guided by the Republican Constitution.


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Lubinda: In accordance with the Constitution, does the nominee qualify for the position in question? Yes, he does, irrespective of what the PF Constitution says. I do not see anywhere in this report where anybody says Mr Christopher Mvunga is being appointed because he is a member of the PF. As a matter of fact, when Mr Christopher Mvunga came to Parliament, he did not come on any party ticket. He was nominated. He was not elected because he did not stand for any election.


Sir, people have spoken about how the BoZ must be run, how the Ministry of Finance must be organised and how the Kwacha has devalued. There have been many hon. Ministers of Finance before in this country and some of them made us run around the globe to ask for debt forgiveness. That is what they did.


Mr Speaker, things are the way they are because of the circumstances we find ourselves in. It is not Zambia alone which is in particular circumstances. It is the whole globe that has been affected. The recession is not hitting Zambia alone. It is hitting the whole world without exception. China is the only country that is going to record positive economic growth. However, some people here are saying that we are going through the prevailing situation because of the appointment of Mr Christopher Mvunga. Was Mr Christopher Mvunga at the helm of the Central Bank when the Kwacha collapsed? Who was there?




Mr Lubinda: It is not Mr Christopher Mvunga. So, please, do not change the debate.


Sir, yesterday, I talked about being relevant. We are not debating the Central Bank, but the appointment of Mr Christopher Mvunga. That is what we are debating. We are not debating the BoZ or the Ministry of Finance. The question is: Is Mr Christopher Mvunga qualified for the position in question? The answer is: Yes, he is well qualified.


Mr Speaker, I want to end by thanking His Excellency the President for looking around the whole country and realising that for the time being, the one he finds suitable for this appointment is Mr Christopher Mvunga. As for Mr Christopher Mvunga, the opposition he has heard both from inside and outside must spur him to excel. He has been known for excellence. He should not let down even those who have opposed this appointment. He should prove to them that they did well to oppose so he could show them that he means well for his mother country. The whole country is looking up to him to run the Central Bank as efficiently as His Excellency the President and the people of Zambia expect.


Sir, I would like to end by commending all of us here for agreeing to ratify the appointment of Mr Christopher Mvunga as the next BoZ Governor. He will be a successful BoZ Governor.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.


Hon. Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Daka: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank all the hon. Members who contributed to this Motion, starting with Hon. Jack Mwiimbu, Hon. Michelo, Hon. Dr Malama, Hon. Jere, Hon. Kampyongo, Hon. Miti, Prof. Nkandu Luo, Hon. Dr Musokotwane and last but not the least, the hon. Minister of Finance and the hon. Minister of Justice.


Sir, the description of Mr Mvunga is that he has had a stellar career. I have heard so many contributions agreeing with our report, which was a cocktail of so many –


Mr Speaker: Order!


Hon. Member for Msanzala, your task is to wind up debate.


Mr Daka: Mr Speaker, I thank all the hon. Members who contributed to the debate on the Motion. I also thank you, Sir, the Clerk of the National Assembly and the seconder of the Motion for the support which was rendered to the Committee.


I thank you, Mr Speaker.


Hon. Members: Hear, hear!


Hon. UPND Members called for a division.


Mr Speaker: Only six hon. Members stood up to call for a division and, therefore, the threshold has not been met.


Question put and agreed to












(Debate resumed)


CLAUSE 5 – (Functions of Commission)


The Minister of Health (Dr Chilufya): Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 5, on page 9, in line 18 by the deletion of paragraph (I) and the substitution therefor of the following:


  1. in consultation with the Higher Education Authority, co-ordinate food and   

nutrition training, in national food and nutrition programmes;


Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.


Clause 5, as amended, ordered stand part of the Bill.


Clauses 6, 7 and 8 ordered stand part of the Bill.


CLAUSE 9 – (Executive Director)


Dr Chilufya: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 9, on page 11, in line 22 by deletion of the words “public health” and the substitution therefor of the words “foods and nutrition”.


Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.


Clause 9, as amended, ordered stand part of the Bill.


Clauses 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 and 23 ordered stand part of the Bill.


NEW CLAUSE 24 − (Validity of Certificate) and NEW CLAUSE 25 – (Renewal of Certificate of Registration)


Dr Chilufya: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move that the following new clauses be inserted immediately after Clause 23 on page 16, after line 20:


Validity of                                24.       A certificate of registration is valid for a period of five Certificate          years unless cancelled.


Renewal of                                25.       (1)        A nutrition group may, at last three months before

Certificate                                                         the expiry of its certificate of registration, apply to of Registration         the Commission for renewal of the certificate.


(2)        The nutrition group may, where an application is made under subsection (1), issue a certificate of registration to take effect from the date of expiry of the applicant’s previous certificate.


(3)      The nutrition group may, on the issue of the new certificate of registration under this section, vary terms and conditions attached to the certificate of registration.


Question put and agreed to.


New Clauses 24 and 25 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.


CLAUSE 26 – (Suspension or Cancellation of Certificate of Registration)


Dr Chilufya: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 26, on page 16, in line 29 to 30 and page 17, in lines 1 to 7, by the deletion of clause 26 and substituted therefor of the following:


Suspension or              26.       (1)    Subject to the other provision of this act, the Commission

Cancellation of                               may suspend or cancel a certificate of registration of a      

 Certificate of Registration                    nutrition group where –



  1. the nutrition group obtained the registration on the  basis of fraud, negligence or   misrepresentation;


  1. fails to comply with any term or condition of registration or guidelines issued under this Act; or


  1. circumstances have arisen that disqualify the nutrition group from registration.


                (2)          the Commission shall, before suspending or cancelling the certificate of registration in accordance with subsection (1), give written notice to the nutrition group of the Commission’s intention to suspend or cancel the certificate in the prescribed manner and form and require the nutrition group to show cause, within a period of not more than thirty days, why the certificate of registration should not be suspended or cancelled.


                       (3)         The Commission shall not suspend or revoke a licence under this section if the nutrition group takes remedial measures to the satisfaction of the Commission within the period under subsection (3).


                       (4)         The Commission may, if the nutrition group who is notified in accordance with subsection (2) and (3) fails to show cause to the satisfaction of the Commission, or does not take any remedial measures to the satisfaction of the Commission, within the time specified in those subsections, suspend or revoke the licence, and issue the nutrition group with an order to that effect.


                      (5)          The Commission, shall where the Commission cancels the registration of a nutrition group, remove the name of the nutrition group from the register.


(6)        A nutrition group whose certificate of registration is cancelled shall surrender to the Commission any moveable property or equipment acquired by the nutrition group from the Commission for the purposes of this Act.


Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.


Clause 26, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.


Clauses 27, 28 and 29 ordered to stand part of the Bill


CLAUSE 30 – (Coordinating Committee)


Dr Chilufya: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 30, on page 18, after line 37 by the insertion of the following new subclause immediately after subclause (7):


                     (8)        The Minister may, be statutory instrument, make regulations to provide for

the composition, functions and reporting mechanism for provincial, district, ward and zonal nutrition coordinating committees.


Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.


Clause 30, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.


Clauses 31 and 32 ordered to stand part of the Bill.


Hon. Member: As the time is –


The Chairperson: Yes, as the time is – I was hoping that you will not notice the time.




The Chairperson: I just have a few clauses to go.


The Chairperson: Order!






[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]


The following Bill was considered at Committee Stage:


The Food and Nutrition Bill, 2020


Consideration of the Bill to be resumed on Wednesday, 2nd October, 2020.


Mr Speaker: Order!


(Debate adjourned)




The House adjourned at 1657 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 2ndOctober, 2020.