Friday, 17^th July, 2020

 

The House met at 0900 hours

 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

 

_______

 

RULING BY MR SPEAKER

 

POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR K. SIMBAO, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR SENGA HILL PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY, ON WHETHER THE HON. MEMBERS OF THE SELECT COMMITTEE APPOINTED TO SCRUTINISE THE CONSTITUTION OF ZAMBIA (AMENDMENT) BILL NO. 10 OF 2019 WERE IN ORDER NOT TO SUPPORT THEIR REPORT DURING THE SECOND READING STAGE OF THE BILL

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, you will recall that on Wednesday, 24^th June, 2020, when the House was considering the Second Reading Stage of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill, 2019 and Mr M. Mawere, hon. Member of Parliament for Chipata Central Parliamentary Constituency, was debating, Mr K. Simbao, hon. Member of Parliament for Senga Hill Parliamentary Constituency, raised the following point of order:

 

“Mr Speaker, my point of order is against hon. Members of the Select Committee who were privileged to scrutinise the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 on our behalf and for our consumption as a whole House.

 

“Mr Speaker, I note that the Select Committee sat for twenty days plus, which is unprecedented in terms of Select Committee sittings. What I know is that traditionally, Select Committees do not sit beyond ten days.

 

“Mr Speaker, in those twenty days, I did not hear the voice of the Church or, indeed, that of the Opposition, particularly the United Party for National Development (UPND), who are now in the forefront of stopping the progression of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 in the House. For twenty days, the hon. Members of the UPND on the Committee continued to deliberate the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill, No. 10 of 2019. Mr Speaker, I wonder why these hon. Members were not pulled out from the Committee during this time.

 

“Mr Speaker, I have also heard views from other sources of repute like Prof. Ndulo arguing that we operate on similar lines to the British Parliament, I believe, in an effort to try to hoodwink the masses in Zambia that we are doing something wrong.

“Mr Speaker, I refer you to the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2016. I am not aware of any other later version of the Standing Orders other than these. I am sorry I do not have the Standing Orders, 2016 with me right now. However, Standing Order 145(3) on page 58, talks of an hon. Member of a Committee not staying away and not refusing to vote on the report that the Committee has presented to the House.

 

“Are the hon. Members of the Select Committee, therefore, in order to abandon their report which they had panel beaten so heavily that they removed all the things that were really important? They removed the mettle of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No.10 of 2019 and only left the filler. All the controversial issues have been purged out and only issues not worth creating anarchy about have been left. Are your Select Committee hon. Members in order not to support their own report when Standing Order 145(3) of the Standing Orders compels them to do so?”

 

Hon. Members, in my immediate response, I reserved my ruling to enable me carefully consider the point of order in light of the issues raised. I have studied the matter and I am now ready to render my ruling.

 

Hon. Members, the point of order raises the issue of whether an hon. Member of a Committee considering a Bill who does not support the Bill during the Second Reading Stage of the Bill breaches Standing Order 145(3) of the Standing Orders. For avoidance of doubt, Standing Order 145(3) provides as follows:

 

“A member of a Select Committee shall not dissent from or vote against the recommendations of his or her own report in the House.”

 

Hon. Members, I have rendered several rulings on this matter and I will not belabour the point any further, suffice it to mention that there is a clear distinction in procedure between reports presented to the House by Committees for adoption and reports on Bills.

 

I rendered a ruling on a similar matter on a point of order raised by Hon. J. J. Mwiimbu, Member of Parliament for Monze Central Parliamentary Constituency, against members of the Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights, Gender Matters and Child Affairs who voted against their reports. This is contained in the Parliamentary Debates of the First Meeting of the Fifth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly, 18^th September to 10^th December, 2015. It is found at pages 3341-3342. The question for determination in that point of order was whether it was in order for a member of a Committee tasked to consider a Bill to vote against the recommendations of the Committee on the Bill.

 

In addressing the question, I stated, at pages 3341 to 3342, as follows:

 

“Once a Committee presents a report to the House on the Bill, the House proceeds to consider the Bill as presented by the mover of the Bill, in this case, the Hon. Minister of Justice. The report of the Committee on the Bill, therefore, is not the subject of discussion, but is merely used to assist the House to understand the ramifications of the Bill. Hon. Members will recall that this was the spirit of the parliamentary reforms that introduced the system of referring Bills to Committees. Therefore, although the Committee’s report is referred to in debating the Bill, the subject of debate still remains the Bill, not the report. It is for this reason that no Motion is moved on the Floor of the House to adopt such a report and no question is put to the House to adopt it. The question put to the House following the debate is whether the Bill should be read for the second time. This procedure is clearly distinguishable from the one used to adopt a report of a select or portfolio Committee in which the subject of the debate on the Floor of the House is the report.”

 

Ultimately, I, therefore, ruled then that the members of the Patriotic Front (PF) and the Movement for Multiparty Democracy (MMD) who voted contrary to the recommendations of their Committee reports on two Bills were not out of order.

 

Similarly, in this matter, the question that was before the House at the time some members of the Select Committee walked out was whether the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill, 2019 should be read a second time and not whether the report of the Select Committee should be adopted. The report of the Committee that considered the Bill was not brought to the House for approval or adoption, but merely to assist hon. Members as they debate the ramifications of the Bill.

 

Hon. Members, it is, therefore, clear that the members of the Select Committee who walked out were not out of order because it was not the report or its recommendations that were being considered by the House, but rather the Second Reading Stage of the Bill.

 

I thank you.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

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BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, let me give the House an indication of the business it will consider next week.

Sir, on Tuesday, 21^st July, 2020, the Business of the House will begin with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then debate the Motion to adopt the Report of the Public Accounts Committee. Thereafter, the House will consider the Second Reading Stage of the National Council for Construction Bill, 2020. The House will then consider the Committee Stage of the Landlord and Tenant (Business Premises) (Amendment) Bill, 2020.

Mr Speaker, on Wednesday, 22^nd July, 2020, the Business of the House will start with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider Private Members’ Motions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then consider the Second Reading Stage of the Food Reserve Bill, 2020.

Sir, on Thursday, 23^rd July 2020, the Business of the House will commence with the Motion to suspend Standing Order 100 to enable the House to deal with all the stages of any Bill that will be on the Order Paper for Friday, 24^th July, 2020. This will be followed by Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. The House will then consider a Motion of Censure to be moved by Hon. S. Kakubo, Member of Parliament for Kapiri Mposhi, against the hon. Provincial Minister for Lusaka Province. Thereafter, the House will deal with the presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any.

Mr Speaker, on Friday, 24^th July, 2020, the Business of the House will commence with the Vice-President’s Question Time. This will be followed by Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. Then the House will deal with presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. All things being equal, the House will then consider any other business that may be outstanding and, thereafter, adjourn sine die.

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THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Mr Mwila (Chimwemwe): Mr Speaker, the people of Chimwemwe would like to find out how prepared the Government is in discussing options, if any, of bailing out civil servants, especially teachers, police and nurses, a good number of whom are getting negative salaries because of heavy bank loan deductions and deductable figures which keep increasing whenever the Bank of Zambia adjusts its reserve ratios?

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, the Government would not like to see its civil servants indebted to financial institutions and is taking action to address this matter. The hon. Minister of Finance will furnish the House with details of how the mechanisms being put in place to address this issue will be undertaken.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Dr Imakando (Mongu Central): Mr Speaker, in the Report for the Committee on Government Assurances, it is indicated that Lewanika University still stands at the 10 per cent completion point. The people of Mongu and those from Nalolo Constituency, which borders Mongu, would like to know if there are any efforts the Government will make to ensure that the university is built since it was only supposed to take about three years to be completed at a cost of K160million. However, only K20 million was released. Is the Government doing anything to ensure that the construction of this university is completed?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the Government made a commitment to build the Lewanika University in Western Province and that commitment still stands. When resources are made available, the promise will be fulfilled. As for now, the Government is still soliciting or raising some funds to address the issue of the construction of the university.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Nanjuwa (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, the Government through the Ministry of General Education assured the nation and the people of Mumbwa that when schools reopened on 1^st June, 2020, the Government would be ready to distribute face masks because it had procured over one million masks for pupils. Up to now, no masks have been delivered to Mumbwa Parliamentary Constituency.  I would like to find out if the assurance still stands or the Government is ready to apologise for the stress it has caused to the people of Mumbwa.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am not sure whether the hon. Member has been to his constituency of late because the Disaster and Mitigation Management Unit (DMMU) has distributed face masks to all the schools in the country. The DMMU produced three million face masks. So, I cannot see how the three million face masks can elude the pupils of Mumbwa. I would urge the hon. Member for Mumbwa to check with DMMU to see which schools were supplied with the face masks and also to make a follow-up in his constituency to verify the situation on the ground to see which schools did not actually receive face masks. However, all I know is that all the schools that have examination sitting pupils received face masks, throughout the country, through the Provincial Education Officers (PEO), District Commissioners (DC), and District Education Board Secretaries (DEBS). In addition, there was a lot of coordination when the distribution was being undertaken through the DMMU. This was carried out in conjunction with the defence forces, whereby big trucks were secured to distribute the masks.

 

Sir, I am sure if there is one school which did not receive face masks then, it should have received the masks by now.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Lihefu: On a point of order, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Manyinga, I am not giving you an opportunity to raise a point of order, but rather to simply ask a question if you have a question to pose.

 

Mr Lihefu (Manyinga): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for the opportunity.

 

Sir, there are some developmental projects, which were started in our various constituencies especially in the newly created districts like Manyinga. Since 2014, to date some projects are still at the 5 per cent completion point. Is the stalling of these important projects as a result of the Coronavirus-2019 (COVID-19) or are there other challenges which are making the Patriotic Front (PF) Government fail to deliver?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, when the mention of COVID-19 and its negative impact, particularly on the economy, came on the Floor of the House, hon. Members on your left were laughing very loudly, ridiculing the statement.

 

Sir, the challenge is not only COVID-19. The House is aware that the country went through another shock, which is the drought in the 2018/2019 Farming Season. Further, the House is equally aware that the country had suffered severe floods in some areas. The Government had to attend to these disasters including, now, the COVID-19.

 

Mr Speaker, this Government has done so well in terms of rural development. The creation of districts, including Manyinga, will transform our rural areas to a great extent. Instead of the hon. Member stating that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has failed, he should actually congratulate it for the work that it has undertaken to lay the foundation for industrial development in our rural areas.

 

Sir, the Ministry of Finance is currently profiling various projects which were started in the country to ascertain which ones should attract funding so that they are completed in time and this will be reflected in the number of projects that will be picked for completion including some projects in Manyinga District.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mutale: On a point of order, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

I would like to remind the hon. Member for Chitambo that it is an entrenched practice not to process points of order during the Vice-President’s Question Time.

 

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for according me this opportunity to raise a very serious question.

 

Sir, the Electoral Commission of Zambian (ECZ) indicated that the voter registration exercise will commence in October, 2020, and that this particular registration process shall entail registering all eligible voters in this country afresh. The law of this country is very categorical on the registration of voters because it is supposed to be continuous. Further, today, I have read reports in the media where the ECZ has requested members of the public to register online. Why is her organisation – I am referring to it like that because she speaks on behalf of the ECZ. Why is it issuing contradictory statements to members of the public on a very serious matter like voter registration?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, whenever the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) makes serious decisions of a national nature, usually, the stakeholders in elections are briefed. I believe the ECZ has made public statements on every step including the time frames for the registration of voters. The ECZ has also engaged political parties on many other issues including the fees for aspiring candidates. So, even on the issue of online registration, I am sure it has plans to engage the relevant stakeholders so that everyone is aware of its plans. As for the continuous voter registration exercise, there have been some constrains on the part of ECZ to undertake that it. That is why even the registration will take only a month and a few days simply because of the financial situation in the country. However, the ECZ will continue to follow the law and consult stakeholders who are relevant to any election.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Technical Malfunction

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members in the amphitheatre and other designated rooms are urged to log in following that interruption in power supply.

 

Technical Malfunction

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Kamfinsa, are you able to come on?

 

The Information Communication Technology (ICT) staff in Thomas William Committee Room, please assist the hon. Member for Kamfisa.

 

Mr Musonda (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for according me this opportunity to ask a question to Her Honour the Vice-President.

 

 Sir, you will agree with me that before privatisation, we had a very vibrant engineering manufacturing sector in Zambia, with companies such as Lusaka Engineering Company (LENCO) Limited, Hume (Zambia), Hume Pipes and Copperbelt Steel. However, immediately after privatisation, this sector started going down yet we see a lot of products now being ordered from down south for simple fabrications, like pipes and tanks to support the mining sector on the Copperbelt. Does the Government of His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, have any deliberate plans to revive the engineering manufacturing sector of this country which would actually save the flight of foreign exchange, create employment for the youths and improve revenue collection for the Ministry of Finance? 

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the Seventh National Development Plan (7NDP) is very clear on the roadmap of this Government to resuscitate the manufacturing industry. Hon. Members are aware that we already have a thriving steel industry in Kafue which is one of the examples I can give. Currently the Citizen’s Economic Empowering (CEEC) is constructing industrial parks in the country. In fact, it has already built industrial parks in five provinces. To this extent, it means those parks will be the hubs of manufacturing industries and they will involve many young people in their activities.

 

Mr Speaker, we are aware that through the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA), Multi-Facility Economic Zones (MFEZs) have been established and these are evident, particularly in Lusaka. The Copperbelt Province will soon have one facility. The Central Province, following the exposition, is already establishing an MFEZ. So, this Government has done a lot in this area but of course, much more needs to be done to address issues of manufacturing.

 

Mr Speaker, it is a pity that in the early nineties, Zambia lost its industrial base due to poorly conducted privatisation process. It is not only the manufacturing sector which suffered. Most of our industries suffered at the hands of privatisation which was not well planned because even the social sector was affected. Today, we have hordes of retirees who should have been compensated for the labour they offered to the country. However, the privatisation exercise did not even consider those Zambians as worthy of compensation and now this Government is taking measures to address these issues. It is allocating resources to support its retired men and women.

 

Mr Speaker, the creation of the industrial base has started. This country in another few years will change from the level it is today to something much better.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Mr Speaker, there is a river called Luyombwa in Chitambo. The Government is about to construct a bridge across it to link the people of Reuben Island who have never seen a motor vehicle from the time that the country got Independence. The project for the acrow bridges has stalled. When is this project going to take off so that the people of Chitambo can benefit a bridge from the 118 bridges that will be constructed?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Housing and Infrastructure Development has a program for 118 acrow bridges. A study was done to verify the bridges that needed construction. Some of the bridges were damaged during the last floods. So, the ministry is busy taking stock of all the crossing points that will require bridges to be constructed. I believe that the one in Chitambo will be looked at very soon.

 

Mr Speaker, the washed away bridges are so many in this country that even the 118 acrow bridges may not be sufficient to cover all the damage on our road infrastructure.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you

 

Mr Phiri (Mkaika): Mr Speaker, the Government is implementing a very good programme of empowering the youths. When and how will youths from rural constituencies like Mkaika and Katete benefit from this very good programme that the Government is implementing?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, indeed, the Government is currently addressing the issue of youth empowerment in not only in urban areas, but in rural areas as well. The hon. Member must have listened to yesterday’s news that many youths from rural parts of Zambia including Monze, were awarded ...

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: ... hefty cheques to carry out their agricultural activities. The agro dealers in rural areas also benefited from the monies that were distributed. So, the Youth Empowerment Fund will be spread to all the rural districts. However, I wish to urge hon. Members of Parliament to ensure that youth and women co-operatives are formed so that our people can benefit from these funds as groups. There are many other funds in various ministries that can be accessed by the youths, if only they had adequate information and the modalities to access these funds.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Mr Speaker, the financial market of any country, including Zambia, is an integral and very critical sector to the economy. This sector includes pensions and insurance, apart from commercial banks. Of late, we have come across and noted some rather disturbing news in the press concerning the arrest of some of the topmost executives at the Pensions and Insurance Authority (PIA). This body is responsible for regulating and monitoring the financial subsector. It has been alleged that there is a case of abuse of office and a shielding of a named insurance company for the irregular issuance of an insurer’s license. If not handled carefully, this might mean doom to the financial sector, especially the pensions and insurance sub-sector that I am talking about. Critical as this situation may be, especially in the face of the Coronavirus Disease-2019 (COVID-19) including ...

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Continue.

 

Mr Lufuma: ... the performance of this economy, this will derail developments in the financial sector. Is Her Honour the Vice-President going to allow the hon. Minister of Finance to allay fears that this action by the PIA will inevitably disturb the financial sector so that –

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

I think your question has been heard. You may resume your seat.

 

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, let me finish my question.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, will the hon. Minister of Finance allay fears and anxieties, not only in the insurance and pensions industry, but the financial sector as a whole? Is Her Honour the Vice-President going to allow the hon. Minister of Finance to clarify this issue?

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, you are repeating yourself.

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the Government is equally concerned about financial mismanagement in some sectors of our economy. Thus, it is taking every measure to ensure that this situation is arrested.

 

Sir, the case that the hon. Member is referring to is already before the courts of law and investigations are still ongoing to determine the depth of the crime that was committed at this financial institution. So, I cannot say much because it will be subjudice if I delve into matters of the courts that I am not conversant with.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: Let me just point out that I have noted a growing tendency by hon. Members to raise points of order in order to attract my attention to their questions. The list is rolling and out of impatience, you are raising points of order, suggesting that my list is not able to capture your names. There is very clear evidence that you are actually captured, but you are impatient, and I have evidence before me. So, please, those of you who will persist to raise points of order, I will just ignore you. There are no points of order during this segment. So, it will be an exercise in futility.

 

Ms Kasanda (Chisamba): Mr Speaker, I am aware that there has been a lot of political interference during the issuance of National Registration Cards (NRCs). What measures is the Government putting in place to ensure that we have a fair, efficient and transparent issuance of NRCs because the people of Chisamba have been complaining and would like to get answers from Her Honour the Vice-President?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, it would be prudent on the part of the hon. Member of Parliament for Chisamba to give me the actual cases of political interference during the issuance of National Registration Cards (NRCs) because I cannot respond to a question based on a speculation that cannot be verified.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Siwanzi (Nakonde): Mr Speaker, the people of Nakonde are grateful for the Great North Road Rehabilitation Project that the Government has initiated. However, the manner in which this project is being implemented leaves much to be desired. The contractor has mobilised to begin works where it is not even urgent, leaving out the urban section of Nakonde, where the road urgently needs to be expanded due to the trucks that are stuck at the border. Last year, the Road Development Agency (RDA) indicated that after the rains, the contractor would move to the urban section of Nakonde and start the rehabilitation works. When is the contractor going to rehabilitate the Great North Road, which is in a deplorable state especially at Nakonde Border?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament together with the Provincial Administration should meet the hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure to decide on the modalities of the implementation of the project in Nakonde because it is a situation on the ground that needs to be examined by the players and very critical stakeholders in Nakonde.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, the North-Western Province is very important because it contributes to the economic growth of Zambia but what we have seen is that the Government has totally ignored it. I am referring to the Solwezi/Mwinilunga/Jimbe Road, which has completely been abandoned and nobody is talking about it. Recently, some Government officials visited Ikeleng’i and promised Chief Mwinilamba that if councillors resigned and joined the Ruling Party, they would see development in that area. Which development is the Government talking about when there are buildings and roads that have been abandoned there? The Government wants to urge councillors to resign so that they can see development in their areas yet we have not even received the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). We are not even seeing projects that were abandoned being resumed. Where will the money come from to start these new projects when these councillors resign?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member started so well in putting his question on the table but then, he brought in other issues that are so irrelevant to the question. The Government has done a lot for the North-Western Province. I remember that in 2018, I travelled to Mwinilunga to commission a mini-hydro power project that will benefit a lot of households, Government and private institutions in that area. There are many other projects that the hon. Member should appreciate that the Government has put in place to address the challenges that our people were facing or are still facing in the North-Western Province including the rehabilitation of the Chingola/Solwezi Road. Works on other subsidiary roads will follow as soon as funds have been sourced to work on those roads.

 

Sir, recently, the Head of State, His Excellency, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, was in the North-Western Province and the hon. Member met him. He presented some of the projects that need to be concluded, to the President and I am sure he took note. So, for the hon. Member to say that the Government has done nothing in the North-Western Province, I think he is exaggerating the matter. I believe he does not believe in what he said because the situation on the ground is very different.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Dr Ng’ambi (Chifubu): Mr Speaker, early this year, the people of Zambia were terrified in view of the gassing activities that took place in all the parts of the country. Some people even lost their lives through these activities. However, a few weeks ago, we received reports that some of the suspects have been released through the justice system. The people of Zambia are concerned as to why these suspects were released. They also want to know how many suspects are still in custody.

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, last week, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs presented a statement on the Floor of this House on this same matter in which he informed the nation that some of the gassers, or rather alleged gassers, were released but some are still facing the law in the courts. So, the matter has not been concluded. It is still ongoing and as more evidence is sourced, we will know the final result.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mwamba (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, we have seen a huge number of councillors for the United Party for National Development (UPND) resigning from their party to join the Patriotic Front (PF). Whenever this happens, the UPND losses elections. What is causing these councillors to resign from the UPND to join the PF?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, there are many factors contributing to this exodus of councillors from the UPND, and one of these is the high levels of intolerance in the UPND. The new comers to the party are finding this very uncomfortable. That is why some of them are leaving. Others are leaving because they cannot operate under a very undemocratic party, where councillors are forbidden from interacting with Government officials. Councillors want to see development in their wards. Thus, if they are forbidden from going to a Government ministry to discuss issues of development, then, they get frustrated and leave. So, there are many factors contributing to this situation. The UPND officials should not complain whatsoever. There is no PF that is buying any councillors because it does not have those resources to undertake such a clandestine exercise.

 

Sir, I just received information on the issue of schools in Mumbwa. Apparently, the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) has sent 15,758 face masks to all the schools in Mumbwa. That is why I was begging the hon. Member to visit his constituency to verify the situation on the ground.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Ms Katuta (Chienge): Mr Speaker, the children and parents of Chienge would like to find out from the hard working Patriotic Front (PF) Government what efforts it is making to reach out to students and pupils who are staying at home during this time of the Coronavirus Disease-2019 (COVID-19). The children of Chienge do not have access to computers or any kind of modern communication equipment that can enable them to learn from home as other children are doing because their parents cannot afford even a television set. Therefore, what is this Government going to do for the children and pupils of Chienge who are at home and are unable to learn like those in urban or peri-urban areas? What measures is this Government going to take to help children not to lag behind in terms of education?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of General Education has put in place some programmes to reach out to our rural pupils. In conjunction with the United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF), the ministry has secured some radios and local language reading materials for rural children. This is aimed at ensuring that school children in rural areas are not left out. Of course, we do realise that there is no electricity in some parts of the country and that sometimes, radio reception is not very clear. However, the Government, through the Ministry of General Education is doing everything possible to reach out to all the pupils in our rural schools.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

_______

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

 

ALLEGED FLOUTING OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH (INFECTED AREAS) (CORONAVIRUS DISEASE-2019) REGULATIONS, 2020

 

The Minister of Health (Dr Chilufya): Mr Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to render a ministerial statement that was informed by a point of order raised by Hon. Jack Mwiimbu, Member of Parliament for Monze Central Parliamentary Constituency and Leader of the Opposition who queried whether the Executive was in order to flout the Public Health (Infected Areas) (Coronavirus Disease-2019) Regulations, 2020 by continuously holding public meetings.

 

Mr Speaker, the House may wish to place on record that the highest priority of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government under the stewardship of His Excellency, President Edgar Chagwa Lungu is to ensure health for all. Succinctly put, universal health coverage means health for everyone, everywhere.

 

As part of this agenda, Mr Speaker, protection of the public from public health emergencies such as Coronavirus Disease-2019 (COVID-19) ranks high on the priority list. To this effect, the Public Health Act was invoked, particularly Sections 28, 30 and 114 Chapter 295 of the laws of Zambia to ensure that measures were put in place to protect the public from COVID-19. This was all in aspiration to prevent and suppress COVID-19.

 

Mr Speaker, the response plan which the Government had put in place was adjustable and was informed by the evolution of the pandemic. Therefore, matrix such as new cases, deaths and, indeed, other strategic indicators informed what actions the Government would put in place. To this effect, Statutory Instruments (SIs) No. 21 and 22 were invoked, and thereafter, Statutory Instrument (SI) No. 62 of 2020 was invoked, and this particularly referred to restrictions on public gatherings.

 

Mr Speaker, the Government has not revoked SI No. 21, 22 and 62. These SIs, among many other things, regulate the public health and social measures that should be observed when responding to COVID-19 and when we are talking about public health gatherings. I must emphasise that the thrust among the three SIs is that public health gatherings are permitted subject to adherence to public health and social measures.

 

Mr Speaker, we note with concern the increasing laxity amongst members of the public in adhering to the stipulated public health and social measures. The Government is aware of this fatigue in the community and would like to make a clarion call using this platform for the community to rededicate itself to public health and social measures to prevent COVID-19. Public gatherings should be held strictly adhering to public health and social measures that are stipulated in the SIs. This will not be characterised using political, religious or any other measures. As long as they are public gatherings, they should adhere to public health measures.

 

Mr Speaker, we have observed, in the last few weeks, an increase in COVID-19 cases. The number of people presenting themselves to health facilities with severe illnesses has gone up. There is an exponential rise of persons dying in communities. As at yesterday, the number of cases we recorded in our COVID-19 centres requiring oxygen therapy was twenty-two. These require specialist therapy.

 

Mr Speaker, the number of people reporting Brought in Dead (BID) cases has also gone up. This should raise concern. The Government of the Republic of Zambia under His Excellency, President Edgar Chagwa Lungu is heightening measures regarding community engagement and risk communication to yield positive social behavioural change. As we talk about this, we will be apolitical. Indeed, there is a need for collective solidarity, collective unity of purposes and none stigmatisation as we talk about the controlling of the spread of COVID-19. Collective solidarity in action amongst all individuals and organisations is key in the fight against COVID-19. This is a fight for all of us. I emphasise it is apolitical. Therefore, gatherings of whatever nature should be held under strict public health guidelines.

 

Mr Speaker, let me take this opportunity to call upon the leadership in all sectors, traditional, religious, political, including hon. Members of Parliament, to remember that the mantle to create awareness in our communities so as to increase positive behavioural change lies in us. We should shy away from politicising the COVID-19 fight as it is a grave public health threat. The numbers are increasing exponentially in terms of mortality and morbidity. It is important that today, we hold hands in solidarity and act to stop COVID-19.

 

Mr Speaker, to strengthen the effective prevention and control of COVID-19, the Government of His Excellency, President Lungu did issue statements in the adjustable COVID-19 response plan that focused on measures to protect the public from COVID-19. It was meant to ensure that surveillance was increased to detect cases early. It was meant to ensure that case management was facilitated, and further, to prevent infections in the communities or stem community spread. Further, it was meant to ensure that we stockpiled commodities that were required to control the epidemic, either at prevention or case management level.

 

Mr Speaker, we did talk about specific measures. In his address to the nation, the President did make it mandatory that masks should be worn in public. Masks will make a difference. I must emphasise today, that if we all wore masks in public, we would be firmly on track to control COVID-19. If we all exercised handwashing, we would be promoting infection prevention. We would be avoiding contamination through the nasal and mouth areas. Maintaining social distance is critical. Avoiding contact with people who have COVID-19 involves us maintaining social distance. A distance of a minimum of 1 metre is critical for us to ensure the critical prevention of the contraction of COVID-19. Public gatherings should only be held when they are essential and adhere strictly to public health measures that are being stipulated in the SIs.

 

Mr Speaker, handshakes and hugs must be avoided. Unnecessary travel to COVID-19 risk countries or areas must completely be avoided. It is important to partner with the community to report all suspected cases to health authorities so that there are follow ups.

 

Mr Speaker, allow me to update this august House on the current COVID-19 situation in the country. As I speak today, 17^th July, 2020, Zambia did record 190 new cases of COVID-19. This was out of 848 tests. These cases are being picked through routine community screening, health care facility based screening, contacts to those who are already positive, a few health workers and those who have been brought in already dead.

 

Mr Speaker, the cumulative number of COVID-19 cases has gone up to 2,620 and this is out of 67,096 tests done since the outbreak of the COVID-19. The number of recoveries on a positive note has been 1,434. On a sad note, I would like to report a total number of 108 deaths that are linked with COVID-19. With the revision of the definition of a COVID-19 death by the World Health Organisation (WHO), Zambia has revised its figures as follows:

 

1. Out of 108 deaths, 84 died within the community and these were BIDs;
2. 85 of the 108 deaths have been classified already, and 22 are classified as COVID-19 deaths; and
3. 63 are classified as COVID-19 associated deaths.

 

Sir, the remaining twenty-three (23) are pending classification based on vapour autopsy and mortality surveillance that we are conducting in the communities. For the avoidance of doubt, COVID-19 deaths are those that are associated with the classical symptoms of COVID-19 and no underlying pathology. COVID-19 associated deaths are those that are to do with people with underlying co-morbidities, and then they test positive for COVID-19 too.

 

Mr Speaker, the Government of the Republic of Zambia, under the able leadership of His Excellency, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu places health security high on its agenda. We have, therefore, decided to escalate public health measures to prevent and control COVID-19. To this effect, we are going to resume engagement with the public daily updating them on the state of the epidemic. We will engage the public through various media platforms on the state of the epidemic and measures to stem the epidemic that will be guided by his Excellency, President Lungu. If we are to stem the escalating outbreak, we must, through collective action ensure that public health and social measures are adhered to. The response will continue to be multi-sectoral and all players will continue to play their role with sincerity.

 

Mr Speaker, let us all wear our masks and watch the distance between ourselves and the next person. Let us all wash our hands, and in this cold season, let us keep warm. It is important to note that COVID-19 is not a hoax. It is a grave public health emergency claiming many lives in mortality and accounting for many numbers of morbidity. Let us all work together as parliamentarians and key stakeholders to ensure that we protect the public from COVID-19. Let us not politicise the handling of COVID-19. While it is a grave public health emergency, it has disruptive effects on many sectors of the livelihoods of our economy. Therefore, timeous action is key for us to ensure that we stop the epidemic from impacting many sectors.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister.

 

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, we all know and agree that Coronavirus Disease-2019 (COVID-19) is real. My question concerns rural constituencies like Kaputa. At the moment, we do not have sufficient resources, especially for community awareness. Even the district COVID-19 preparedness teams do not have resources such as transport and money for fuel to get into the communities. What is the Government doing to ensure that at district level, the offices of hon. Members of Parliament are facilitated with resources? We are the key players in ensuring that these messages get to our people in all communities. We do not want to be caught unaware because that information is not readily available in our communities.

 

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, our response to COVID-19 is anchored on community engagement. In this decentralised model of health services provision, we are relying on our structures at various sub-national levels such as the district health management teams and their structures below. I will use this opportunity to emphasise that the Government, in its response to COVID- 19, has put in place national mechanisms through the national preparedness committee, and even at a higher level, through the contingency meetings under the Office of the Vice-President.

 

Furthermore, under provinces, there are provincial epidemic preparedness committee meetings, and below that, district epidemic preparedness committee meetings. All stakeholders in districts are called upon to participate in the fight against COVID-19. As we speak, we have invoked action at district level. District Commissioners (DCs) are chairing epidemic preparedness committee meetings and are carrying out measures guided by the response plan at national level.

 

Mr Speaker, today, we are talking about resourcing actions at community level. This has been happening, but we still call upon all stakeholders to improve resource mobilisation to ensure that activity at community level is enhanced. Hon. Members of Parliament are key stakeholders and must participate through the district epidemic and preparedness and response teams to ensure that we have adequate capacity at district and community levels to respond to COVID-19.

 

Mr Speaker, as we speak, whatever resources are available are sent to the districts to ensure that activity at that level is enhanced. We call upon all stakeholders to improve the mobilisation of resources. We will leverage resources, but our activities will be at district level and hon. Members of Parliament should be key stakeholders in the response.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his statement –

 

Mr Lufuma: On a point of order, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for the opportunity to raise a point of procedure on what I have noticed. Yesterday, you ruled that indicating to speak would be done after you announce that it was time. For example, after an hon. Minister has finished delivering his speech is when people should indicate. However, I noticed that people indicated while the hon. Minister was giving his speech. When he finished, the same list was not erased so that people could enter their names to ask questions. We need some consistency in this game so that it is fair. When does one indicate? Is it as somebody is talking or after somebody finishes talking?

 

Mr Speaker: Your point of order is upheld. This should not have happened. To rectify this, I direct that after the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, the list should be revised by eliminating it so that we start anew.

 

The hon. Member for Mazabuka Central may continue.

 

Mr Nkombo: Since we are in the new normal, I do not know if you will entertain a bit more advice on what I think went wrong. If allowed, hon. Members should always remember to take themselves off the list when we move to the next order. I think that maybe of help.

 

Mr Speaker: I have previously advised that we are still struggling with this new order. I have also previously directed the Information Communication and Technology (ICT) staff to ensure that this is done. After a question is posed, there is no need for an hon. Member to remain on the Hon. Mr Speaker’s list. The onus is on the individual hon. Members to remove their names. However, I also recognise that there could be technological challenges in so doing. Therefore, the ICT staff should take the responsibility to assist those hon. Members who are unable to remove their names on the list. So, for the sake of consistency and in keeping with the point of order from the hon. Member for Kabompo, after the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central completes his question, I expect the list to start de novo or anew. That is my ruling.

 

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the statement.

 

Mr Malanji consulted Dr Chilufya.

 

Mr Nkombo: I wish the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs would leave the hon. Minister of Health alone because I am about to ask him a question when they are having a conversation. I need your help, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: Ask your question and your question will be answered.

 

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, as I ask the hon. Minister my question, I want him to take note of the following:

 

1. he has stopped giving the daily updates on the Coronavirus Disease-2019

           (COVID-19) status;

      b. all the intercity health inspection posts have disappeared;

      c. the Patriotic Front (PF) has been seen campaigning in the midst of COVID-19;

      d.  the PF has continued buying councillors, thereby promoting by-elections which, by law, under the                         Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) should happen within ninety days of them being pronounced; and

       e. under Article 60(a) of our Constitution, all political parties are compelled to have

            intraparty elections.

 

Mr Speaker, as I ask my question, I want him to know that us, from the United Party for National Development (UPND), have been forbidden by the Ministry of Home Affairs from conducting our intraparty elections which fall within the realm of the constitutional provisions, citing COVID-19. He should note that I am the chairman for elections in the party. As the hon. Minister appeals to us not to make this fight political, I want him to take note of these issues.

 

Mr Speaker, finally, the hon. Minister himself, when appearing before the courts of law to respond to charges against him, he was seen with cadres who are not observing social distancing. I want him to respond to me now: Why should we not feel discriminated against with the evidence that I have given him now? When we want to have intraparty elections, our members are arrested every single day to a point where we even have our intraparty elections in the bush to run away from the police.

 

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, as hon. Minister of Health, I am concerned about the health of all individuals, including the hon. Member of Parliament. He needs to tone down from that bitterness because it will claim his –

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Minister, resume your seat.

 

Mr Nkombo: No! Am I the one who arrested him? Why should he say that I am bitter?

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, resume your seat.

 

Mr Nkombo: I need your protection. You cannot allow him to abuse me. He is abusing me.

 

Mr Speaker: Order, Hon. Minister of Health and hon. Member for Mazabuka Central.

 

Hon. Minister of Health, let us proceed in a temperate way. You may proceed.

 

Mr Nkombo: No! He must withdraw –

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Mr Nkombo: I demand that he withdraws the word ‘bitterness’.

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, resume your seat.

 

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, resume your seat. No, no, there is no point of order.

 

Mr Nkombo: No! He must withdraw the word ‘bitterness’.

 

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance –

 

Mr Nkombo: No Sir, I need your protection.  

 

Mr Speaker: You will be protected. Resume your seat. 

 

Mr Nkombo: No! He must withdraw.

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Resume your seat. I have directed that he should be temperate in his discourse and he has taken note of that.

 

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance.

 

Mr Speaker, let not COVID-19 be used as a reason for people to suddenly become democratic. The United Party for National Development (UPND) has not held elections for many years.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, let us not use COVID-19 –

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Minister of Health, resume your seat!

 

Hon. Minister of Health, I am sure we can proceed otherwise. I have no doubt that you are able to do so. The issues under discussion are professional health issues. There is a point which has been made about discrimination. So, hon. Members would like you to clarify on the enforcement of these measures which you have put in place. I think for progress’s sake, let us confine ourselves to these issues.

 

I know we are in a politically charged atmosphere. If we will not be able to proceed in the manner I am indicating, then I will just stop this session altogether because we cannot proceed this way. I will just stop it. I cannot be proposing questions and answers. I expect that we will engage. We have engaged previously without this kind of situation. I think it is a fairly straightforward subject and I do not think it is beyond our management.

 

The hon. Minister of Health may continue.

 

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, the agenda of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government under His Excellency the President, Dr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, is universal health coverage. This means health for all, and it is apolitical.

 

Sir, we do not want to characterise gatherings on political, racial or religious grounds. We are stating categorically here that every public gathering held must be in compliance with the public health measures that are stipulated under the Public Health Act and the Statutory Instruments (SIs) No. 21, 22 and 62. Nothing else matters because we endeavour and aspire for health for everyone everywhere.

 

Therefore, Mr Speaker, I would like to use this opportunity to call upon all stakeholders, political, religious or traditional, to ensure that as they hold any gatherings of any nature, they adhere to the measures that have been stipulated in the Public Health Act and SIs No. 21, 22 and 62. This will help us stem the community spread of COVID-19 which is a grave emergency of public health nature and is also impacting negatively on all the sectors of our economy. The earlier we act in an apolitical manner, the better.

 

Sir, in responding to the hon. Member of Parliament, let me use this opportunity to say that unity of purpose, solidarity, non-stigmatisation and non-politicisation of COVID-19 will be key in responding to the pandemic. So, my response is that let us all act responsibly in compliance with public health and social measures that are stipulated in the laws that exist to protect the public from COVID-19.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, I am grateful –

 

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Katombola, give me a minute.

 

Hon. Leader of the Opposition, yes, you had indicated and then there was a point of order from the hon. Member for Kabompo and, in response, I directed that the list of speakers be cleared and it was. However, hon. Leader of the Opposition, I do not think you should even exercise yourself because you know your status in the House.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: I know, Mr Speaker, but you had made an announcement –

 

Mr Speaker: No, no, you know what your status is. Resume your seat. You know that the moment you indicate, I recognise you. So, why should you raise a point of order? Let us not waste time on this.

 

The hon. Member for Katombola may continue.

 

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, the situation in villages is very dicey. In villages, people play football, and attend funeral gatherings are in huge numbers, and so many issues are against the Coronavirus Disease-2019 (COVID-19) direction. Now, how effective are the instructions of the Ministry of Health to the district directors of health, the communities, the headmen and the chiefs in ensuring that instructions and guidelines to prevent the spread of COVID-19 are upheld? Is it difficult for the ministry to write instructive letters to all headmen through clinic managers and all those people who are promoting health in our villages? I am asking this because right now, people are playing football and engaging in all those issues that are subjecting them to hazardous situations.

 

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, we disseminate information through the decentralised structures in the Ministry of Health and Government in general. As we speak, all provincial health directors are playing secretariat to their provincial administrations in engaging their royal highnesses on the importance of adhering to COVID-19 measures.

 

Sir, as we speak, provincial health directors have held meetings with royal establishments in various provinces to rally their support in community engagement in risk communication to stem the spread of COVID-19. As we speak, we have on record, reports of the various meetings that have taken place. This is ongoing because beyond the provincial meetings are district level meetings. I must place on record, our appreciation of the support that we have received from royal establishments in disseminating key information to their communities under their jurisdictions on COVID-19. Their royal highnesses countrywide have been principal stakeholders and have played a fundamental role in engaging communities and promoting behavioural change. We will continue engaging with their royal highnesses to ensure the public is adequately engaged in pushing for a healthier population.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister did not answer the pertinent question that was raised by Hon. Nkombo. I plead with him to listen to me very carefully over the issues I want to raise.

 

Sir, the hon. Minister is aware that this particular issue of the Coronavirus Disease-2019 (COVID-19) pandemic united the nation to fight against it. We have endeavoured to remain united in the fight against the COVID-19 pandemic. Unfortunately, the hon. Minister’s party and Government are the ones in the forefront breaching the COVID-19 rules which have been provided.

 

Mr Speaker, with your permission, the Patriotic Front (PF) cadres, with impunity, have been holding demonstrations in Lusaka and holding rallies, contrary to the COVID-19 guidelines.

 

Sir, the President of the Republic, President Edgar Lungu, has been holding rallies in the areas he has been visiting, contrary to the COVID-19 guidelines. The Ruling Party has had intraparty elections in Mufulira, Chingola and Lusaka, contrary to regulations on COVID-19. Therefore, why is the Government being discriminatory in the implementation of this particular regulation which was created for the good of the nation? As a result of that discrimination, a lot of people now have vowed to break the rules. So, what measures are being put in place to address this situation?

 

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, I would like to reiterate that public health is apolitical. We need not characterise any gathering based on political affiliation because any gathering, religious or political, would be a recipe for the transmission of COVID-19 if public health measures are not adhered to. So, I will shy away from characterising gatherings. Today we are talking about the importance of adhering to public health and social measures as we hold public health gatherings.

 

Sir, Hon. Gary Nkombo talked about daily updates which I pre-empted in my ministerial statements. I said we will resume daily updates to ensure that we improve community engagement and risk communication.

 

Mr Speaker, discrimination does not arise. I said in my statement that we should all adhere to public health and social measures. My colleagues on the left are talking about specific activities that I am shying away from because I do not want to talk about the hordes of United Party for National Development (UPND) cadres that gathered in non-adherence to public health and social distancing measures when the President visited Monze, for instance. In a unity of purpose and solidarity, let us ensure we fight Covid-19 by appearing as a united force of Members of Parliament and leaders and ensure that any gathering that is held complies with public health measures that have been put in place.

 

Sir, this Government will not be discriminatory in the application of the law. This is the reason law enforcement agencies will react whether it is a PF, UPND or a Forum for Democracy and Development (FDD) member breaking the law.

 

Mr Speaker, yesterday at the courts of law, compliance to public health measures was enforced by this same Government through law enforcement agencies. People acting in solidarity will only be appreciated in so far as they adhere to public health measures. I must emphasise that the Government will act in a non-discriminatory manner to ensure that public health measures are enforced. Law enforcement agencies will be on hand to ensure that public health measures are enforced to protect the public from any surge in Covid-19 or any public health emergencies.

 

Sir, I do not want this to degenerate my debate to issues of PF or UPND cadres. I want a position where we are all united on one thing which is public health security for all based on adherence to public health measures. Our commitment as Government is to resume the daily updates, strengthening community engagement, risk communication through the various structures, a multi-sectoral approach, and ensuring that all public gatherings that are being held are screened through the lens of public health. Our Zambia National Public Health Institute, which is the technical arm of the PF Government that ensures public health security, is on hand to respond to any applications for public gatherings for guidance on how they can be held without putting the participants at risk.

 

Mr Speaker, we are speaking the same language.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

_______

 

MOTIONS

 

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON NATIONAL ECONOMY, TRADE AND LABOUR MATTERS ON FINANCIAL INCLUSION VIS-À-VIS THE USE OF DIGITAL PAYMENT PLATFORMS IN ZAMBIA.

 

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do adopt the Report of the Committee on National Economy, Trade and Labour Matters for the Fourth Session of the Twelfth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on Friday, 19^th June, 2020.

 

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion Seconded?

 

Mr Chali (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

 

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, in line with its terms of reference under Standing Order No. 157(2), the Committee considered the topical issue entitled “Financial Inclusion vis-a-vis the Use of Digital Payment Platforms in Zambia”.

 

Sir, digital financial services are a key enabler of financial inclusion in Zambia on account of their accessibility, convenience and low cost to transact, among others. Digital platforms also enable individuals to pay utility bills and save money electronically. It is, therefore, necessary to take advantage of the opportunities presented by these platforms to reach out to the unserved and underserved population. Allow me to highlight some of the salient issues observed by the Committee during its interactions with stakeholders.

 

Sir, the Committee observes that the National Payment Systems Act, 2007, the primary statute governing digital financial services, is outdated and does not adequately respond to the current dynamics of mobile money transactions, especially the major developments on the payments ecosystem. While acknowledging that the Government is in the process of revising this piece of legislation, the Committee urges the Government to expedite the process of revising it so as to provide an enabling environment for digital financing.

 

Mr Speaker, the Committee also observes with extreme concern, that following the directive by the Bank of Zambia to prohibit unwarranted charges and fees to all financial services providers, the financial sector has seen most banks closing some of their branches and customers have been left without the option of using digital wallets and mobile money accounts to save money and conduct financial transactions.

Mr Speaker, however, the Committee notes that savings on mobile money accounts do not attract interest. It is of the view that the lack of interest for savings on digital platforms is a disservice to the people of Zambia, especially the poor.

 

Sir, in light of this, the Committee strongly recommends that the Government should come up with interventions to ensure that individuals saving on digital platforms also benefit from savings through interest just as is the case for traditional bank account holders.

 

Mr Speaker, finally, the Committee observes that digital financial services largely depend on network coverage. It is concerned that the limited infrastructure development, especially in rural areas, with regard to network coverage, is to a large extent, impeding the acceleration of financial inclusion. Therefore, it strongly recommends that the Government invests in robust information communication and technology (ICT) infrastructure aimed at bringing about the growth of partnerships between financial technology providers and financial service players.

 

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

 

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

 

Mr Chali: Now, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for allowing me to second this Motion. In seconding the Motion, allow me to add some of the salient issues observed by the Committee. To that effect, I will be brief because of the time.

 

Sir, the first point has to do with the creation of jobs. The jobs being created by the mobile money business are more like casualisation. Therefore, the Committee observed that since the creation of jobs has been noticed in the mobile money business, it would assist a lot if the Executive could look into the formalisation of these jobs by including them in the minimum wage regulations.

 

Mr Speaker, the second point is the delay in settling disputes. When disputes arise as a result of anomalies in the transactions, some mobile money providers are only taking two days to carry out the corrections whilst some are taking as long as two months or sixty days. So, the Committee is suggesting that the Central Bank regulates the settlement of disputes so that a time frame can be fixed as to when all mobile money providers can sort out the disputes.

 

Sir, the third point is the introduction of a single digit code. Each and every mobile money provider is using different codes to transact which is creating a lot of problems with the current users because some of them are aged and most of them are illiterate. So, the Committee is looking at the suggestion to standardise the code which is to be used when dealing with money transactions as it is when recharging mobile phones.

 

Sir, as I conclude, allow me to thank all stakeholders who dedicated their time to provide relevant information to the Committee.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for this opportunity.

 

Sir, to start with, let me thank the Committee –

 

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Nkombo: Sir, I want to show my appreciation for the permission to raise this point of order that I think is very important and I pray that it qualifies under an urgent matter since it borders on our national security.

 

Mr Speaker, my point of order is on the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs, but I see that he has stepped out so by extension, to the Leader of Government Business, Her Honour the Vice-President.

 

Sir, in the very recent days, the country has been gripped with anxiety and fear from about the stories that are coming out of Kigali, Rwanda, where a terrorist group led by a man who answers to the  name Callixte Nsabimana also known as Sankara, under Oath, in a court of competent jurisdiction in Rwanda, alleges that our Head of State, His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, who is primarily answerable to the Zambian people and all those who went to vote for him, including me, to get the legitimacy of representing us as our Head of State.

 

Mr Speaker, yesterday, Wednesday, 16^th July, 2020, we saw a statement from the –

 

Mr Kampyongo interjected.

 

Mr Nkombo: Sir, help me control the hon. Minister of Home Affairs.

 

Sir, Mr Isaac Chipampe put forward a note from State House stating as follows and I am quoting from a text from the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) and AFP, a French Channel:

 

“Zambia’s President Edgar Lungu has denied claims of bankrolling a Rwandan rebel leader who is facing trial for attacks in his country in 2018 that left scores dead.

 

“Rebel leader, Callixte Nsabimana told the Rwanda High Court on Monday that President Lungu promised his National Liberation Front (FLN) some $1 million (£796,000) to help topple the Rwandan Government, AFP news agency reports.

 

“He said President Lungu made a down payment of $150,000 in support of rebel attacks, the French agency reports.

 

“But, in a statement on Tuesday, President Lungu’s spokesman said the “allegations are false and must be treated with a contempt that they deserve.”

 

Mr Malanji entered the Assembly Chamber.

 

Mr Nkombo: I am glad the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs has come.

 

Mr Speaker, in the midst of all this anxiety, is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs in order to remain quiet and continue walking back and forth out of the Chamber …

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, I do not think that is your jurisdiction.

 

Mr Nkombo: … without –

 

I will withdraw that, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: First of all, resume your seat.  Earlier on you, yourself had said you recognise the Leader of Government Business in the House and you knew by your statement that even in the absence of the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Leader of Government Business was here. I do not think it is right for you to interspace your question with all those comments. If you have an issue, present it.

 

Mr Kampyongo interjected

 

Mr Nkombo: Stephen, be careful!

 

Mr Speaker: You may continue, hon. Member.

 

Mr Nkombo: No, but Hon. Kampyongo is abusing me.

 

Mr Speaker: You may continue, hon. Member.

 

Mr Nkombo: No, do not think that because you are a chief policeman, you can abuse me. The Hon. Mr Speaker did not hear what you said, but I did.

 

Mr Speaker: We follow these proceedings.

 

Mr Nkombo: No!

 

Mr Speaker: You may Continue. What is your question?

 

Mr Nkombo: Is the Government in order to remain quiet without coming to this House, where the representatives of people are, to explain this allegation so that we can all now be at ease that the President has nothing to do with it?

 

 I will lay the paper on the Table.

 

Mr Nkombo laid the paper on the Table. 

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker:  Order! Let us have some order.

 

My ruling is brief. If the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central has a specific question to put to the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs over the subject so that he can give his response on behalf of the Executive, he must put in a question and the hon. Minister will come and respond.

 

May the hon. Member for Moomba continue, please.

 

Mr Chaatila: Mr Speaker, I will be very brief.

 

First of all, let me thank the Committee for the good job they put in to come up with this report.  My attention is on the challenges which the Committee has highlighted pertaining to the attainment of financial inclusion in Zambia.  Financial inclusion is key for the development of any nation especially where there are people still struggling for many things, for instance, Zambia.

 

Mr Speaker, challenge No. 14 on page 13 of the report talks about the issue of inadequate mobile network coverage especially in rural areas. This is a serious matter that the Government must look into in order to enhance financial inclusion in rural areas. The report further highlighted that only about 47.9 to 50 per cent of people in rural areas enjoy the benefits of financial inclusion.

 

Sir, as the House may be aware, the Ministry of Transport and Communication, through Zambia Telecommunications Company Limited (ZAMTEL), has been erecting communication towers. If my memory serves me right, it is supposed to erect about 1,300 communication towers, and this exercise started a long time ago. However, it is worrying that ZAMTEL has been constructing these towers at a very slow pace. This has hindered other players like Airtel and MTN from constructing towers in certain areas because it is now a policy that mobile network providers cannot erect towers at one location for obvious reasons.

 

Mr Speaker, because of ZAMTEL’s slowness, Airtel and MTN are finding it very difficult to provide their services in view of the fact that certain sites have already been allocated to ZAMTEL. Therefore, they are waiting for ZAMTEL to erect the towers so that when they are commissioned and working, then, they can mount their dishes on the ZAMTEL platform and provide their services to people, especially those in rural areas. However, it is worrying that the exercise is taking ages. I think the construction of 1,300 communication towers in Zambia, considering the age we are now in, should not take more than four years. Even three years is too much and at most, two years is adequate to cover the whole country. However, because the Government is not showing interest in this area, the people in rural areas will forever remain behind despite the issue of financial inclusion, which is very important, being talked about.

 

Mr Speaker, communication towers play a key role not just for communication but they can also create jobs. For example in Moomba Parliamentary Constituency, there are many youths who have shown interest in mounting booths for MTN and Airtel, but they are not able to do that because there is no network. So, I call upon the ministry responsible in this area to ensure that communication towers are erected. If we are to achieve 100 per cent financial inclusion in rural areas, we should seriously look at the issue of infrastructure so the people in rural areas can also enjoy these services, which the people in town are enjoying.

 

Mr Speaker, I will not dwell much on the report. It is a very good report although it is just disappointing that these reports are being worked on, but as usual in its style, the Government always has its priorities misplaced. If a lot of money is invested in what the Committee has suggested, we will see a lot of benefits that the youths in rural areas can enjoy.

 

Sir, I thank you for according me the opportunity to debate the good report that the Committee worked on.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, I will not debate for long. I wish to commend the Committee for a very good report and I believe it is very neutral.

 

Sir, I want to talk about the issue of Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises (MSMEs) referred to at pages 5 and 13 of the electronic version of the report that I have on my cell phone, and I do not know if the pages match with what other hon. Members have. On page 5 of the report, the Committee stated that MSMEs do not even have access to electronic financial services, which is a very sad situation.

 

Sir, the tragedy in Africa, and in particular Zambia, is that people with money have no ideas while those without money have ideas, but the two are not able to interact so that things can work. I say so because people should know that MSMEs cannot exist in a vacuum. They exist where big corporations or conglomerates exist. The people who pride themselves of having so much money, and I do not know where they got it from, are not able to set up corporations so that MSMEs can thrive. There are people with money like Dangote and one can see how many factories they have set up, but these factories do not make everything. However, MSMEs make products that come out as final products to the public. Therefore, if we do not have big companies, there is no way MSMEs will survive or thrive. However, people keep blaming the Government as the institution that should set up these companies, but it does not run factories or companies. It only sets up the environment so that whoever wants to run a company can do what he/she wants in that environment.

 

Mr Speaker, let me come back to why MSMEs are in the situation that was described in the report. This is because people who have money take their money offshore. That money is benefiting others and not the Zambians. If their money were in our banks, the banks would lend it out to MSMEs, which would thrive and create employment. However, the people with money are not doing that and obviously, one wonders how they made their money. We usually associate Bill Gates to Microsoft, Larry Page to Google and Mark Zuckerberg to Facebook. However, what we are associating the people telling us that they have so much money with? Where are the sources of their funds? It is impossible to understand. If they were running factories that would benefit MSMEs, we would understand what was happening.

 

Sir, some people boast of having so much money, but they have not invested it anywhere. So, where do they want the MSMEs to get money from or supply things? It does not work that way and that is why our MSMEs are in the situation that the Committee described. If we insist or think that the Government will give the MSMEs money, that is not the way it works and one can go and read about the success of the South Koreans. So, I urge the people who claim that they have so much money or millions of dollars to set up companies here so that MSMEs can supply parts to them, and that is the only way we will create adequate opportunities for the MSMEs. MSMEs in Zambia can thrive if only the people with money, whom I would call selfish individuals, set up factories in this country.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to say a few remarks on the Report of the Committee on National Economy, Trade and Labour Matters on Financial Inclusion vis-à-vis the use of digital payment platforms in Zambia. I also thank the chairperson of this Committee for how he presented the report.

 

Sir, I want to caution the members of the public. Indeed, the use of digital platforms has made transactions much easier and these services are accessible even to the people in the rural parts of our country. However, people must be careful of fraudsters who have also taken advantage of these platforms as a way of stealing from non-suspecting citizens. So, I would like to caution members of the public to be careful when sharing their details when they are transacting on digital platforms because unscrupulous characters have also taken advantage of the situation and this can be seen from some online transactions that international conmen are doing.

 

Mr Speaker, people should be concerned when fraudsters offer things that look so good. For example, there are lotteries that are being concocted, and some people send messages that they lost a relative and want someone to use to access large sums of funds. So, when such people ask someone for his/her bank details and mobile transaction pins, then, he/she must get concerned and be very sure before divulging details because that will make him/her vulnerable and it will be easy for him/her to have his/her money stolen by these individuals.

 

Sir, the Committee is spot on in terms of sensitising members of the public on how digital platforms must be used. However, we must also put in place measures that should safeguard the vulnerable citizens. When there is no information, many people get vulnerable and can easily be manipulated by unscrupulous digital fraudsters.

 

Mr Speaker, I just thought I could add my voice on behalf of the Ministry of Home Affairs. We know that there are a number of cases that our law enforcement agencies, such as the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC) and the Zambia Police Service are pursuing in which some people lost huge sums of money at the hands of fraudsters who are taking advantage of digital platforms to defraud our citizens.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

The Minister of Finance (Dr Ng’andu): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to comment on the Report of the Committee on National Economy, Trade and Labour Matters on Financial Inclusion vis-à-vis the use of digital payment platforms in Zambia. I also thank the Committee for a very elaborate and well-presented report.

 

Sir, the discussion of this subject is very timely because it comes at a time when the Coronavirus Disease-2019 (COVID-19) pandemic has impacted on us so severely and has perhaps given us if never before, the reason we should encourage people to have a lot of their financial transactions completed on digital platforms. Using digital platforms reduces very significantly the need for person to person contact. That helps in containing the transmission of the disease. So, we want to embrace it. This is the technology of our time. We want to encourage its expansion.

 

Mr Speaker, the report makes mention of a number of challenges in attaining financial inclusion using digital platforms. I would like to reiterate some of the challenges that have been mentioned with a view of indicating some of the measures that are being undertaken to reduce the negative impact of these challenges.

 

Sir, the challenges that have been noted are as follows:

 

1. weak legislative environment;
2. inadequate framework to take into account the changing environment in the digital financial space;
3. low financial literacy levels are themselves a problem in terms of people making use of this technology;
4. high cost of digital transactions;
5. limited access to financial services particularly in rural areas;
6. delay in the full implementation of the National Financial Switch to enable mobile money users to transact with other users on different platforms;
7. inadequate collaboration among concerned regulators and various regulators, such the Bank of Zambia (BoZ), the Pensions and Insurance Authority and the Security and Exchange Commission being the major players;
8. limited infrastructure and network coverage does not support the extensive use of the digital platform.

 

Mr Speaker, the challenges facing financial inclusion are not insurmountable and we are implementing a number of measures to try and deal with them. Let me just outline the few measures that we are currently implementing which are as follows:

 

1. working on strengthening the security of online transactions by introducing legislation such the Data Protection Bill, the Cyber Security and Cyber Crimes Bill and the Electronic Transaction and Communications Bill. The hon. Minister of Home Affairs mentioned the security challenges that can be posed by transacting on the digital platforms. It is, therefore, important that we deal with security issues because if they are not dealt with, that does not only put people’s transactions in jeopardy, but also limits the appetite for the use of digital platforms as a way of transacting;
2. trying to scale-up financial literacy to all parts of the country to enable individuals have a better understanding of the financial market products and for financial inclusion to be embedded in  the education curriculum for primary and secondary schools so as to empower learners with financial knowledge from a young age;
3. expediting the implementation of Phase II of the National Financial Switch to provide seamless transactions between mobile money providers and other financial service providers such as banks and microfinance institutions. That also helps to reduce the cost of transactions;
4. intervening and capturing mobile money operators in the minimum wage regulations in order to promote decent jobs in line with the aspirations of the Seventh National Development Plan (7NDP). A point was raised that the area of mobile service provision only provides casual jobs, and we think that can be dealt with through this measure;
5. attempting to develop deliberate policies to support the expansion of financial inclusion strategies in remote areas of the country. Particularly, the challenge of areas where we do not have mobile networks has been mentioned as a big problem, and that is an area that is being tackled; and
6. strengthening the collaboration among various regulators within the digital financial service to expand financial inclusion in rural areas. For this, we will need all the players to work together.

 

Sir, the House might also wish to note that the Government is committed in implementing policies to support the expansion of financial inclusion specifically in rural areas as follows:

 

1. the Ministry of Finance is implementing the National Financial Sector Development Policy, and the National Financial Inclusion Strategy, which was launched in November 2017. The National Financial Sector Development Policy aims at having a well defined and developed inclusive financial system that supports efficient resource mobilisation and investment for sustainable economic development;
2. the Government is implementing strategies to ensure financial inclusion so that we can raise the number which is currently 59 per cent to about 80 per cent; and
3. the Government, through BoZ, is encouraging financial sector providers to offer their products and services on digital and mobile platforms in a cost-effective manner, which will contribute to the improved livelihoods leading to reduced poverty.

 

Mr Speaker, one of the things that we have done is to reduce what we call non-charges within the financial sector which cannot be easily justified so that the cost of transacting on digital platforms is made easy.

 

Mr Speaker, with regard to low financial literacy, the Government through the Ministry of Finance is implementing the National Strategy on Financial Education (NSFE), Phase II, as a catalyst to financial inclusion.

 

Mr Speaker, the House may also wish to note that the implementation of Phase II of the National Financial Switch is in progress. Currently, at least, two banks are piloting the interoperability with mobile network operators. Efforts are being made to achieve full interoperability by 2020.

 

Sir, to strengthen the collaboration among the various regulators of the Digital Financial Services (DFS), a multi-sectoral Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) covering financial sector regulators, the Bank of Zambia (BoZ), the Securities and Exchange Commission of Zambia (SEC) and the Pensions and Insurance Authority (PIA) was signed on 14^th May, 2019. This MoU will strengthen the collaboration among the financial regulators. It will further support the Zambia Information and Communications Technology Authority (ZICTA) in which working with BoZ in regulating the digital service providers to ensure that consumers are protected adequately.

 

Mr Speaker, to strengthen the legal and regulatory framework, BoZ has proceeded to convert the provisions of the Deposit Insurance Bill into an instrument to be issued under the Banking and Financial Services Act, 2017. In addition, BoZ is in the process of drafting regulations intended to regulate mobile money operators. In order to reduce the cost of digital financial transactions, BoZ adjusted the Zambia Inter-bank Payment and Settlement System (ZIPSS) processing fees downwards to increase the use of the Real-Time Gross Settlement (RTGS) system. The BoZ also increased transaction and wallet limits for individuals, small-scale farmers and enterprises as well as removing these limits for agents and corporates.

 

Mr Speaker, to enhance the social protection and avoid cash handling, the Government has put in measures to allow social cash transfer (SCT) payments to be made through various digital platforms. These are some of the things that are being done in the area of digital transactions. We believe that with these measures, we should improve the way we do things. The Ministry of Finance takes note of the findings by your Committee to address the challenges in improving financial inclusion and the use of the digital financial services in the rural and urban areas.

 

Mr Speaker, we do endorse the report, and we will take measures necessary to deal with the weaknesses which have been pointed out in the report.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I wish to thank all the hon. Members who debated this report.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Question put and agreed to.

 

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON NATIONAL SECURITY AND FOREIGN AFFAIRS ON THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY APPROVAL OF THE PROPOSAL TO RATIFY THE PROTOCOL FOR THE INTERNATIONAL CONVENTION FOR THE SUPPRESSION OF UNLAWFUL ACTS AGAINST THE SAFETY OF MARITIME NAVIGATION SUPPLEMENTARY TO THE CONVENTION ON THE SUPPRESSION OF UNLAWFUL ACTS AGAINST THE SAFETY OF MARITIME NAVIGATION OF 1988

 

Ms Chisangano (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Affairs on the National Assembly Approval of the Proposal to Ratify the Protocol for the International Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts Against the Safety of Maritime Navigation Supplementary to the Convention on the Suppression of Unlawful Acts Against the Safety of Maritime Navigation of 1988 for the Fourth Session of the Twelfth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on 3^rd July, 2020.

 

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

 

Mr A. B. Malama (Nchelenge): Mr Speaker, I second the Motion.

 

Ms Chisangano: Mr Speaker, pursuant to Article 63 of the Constitution of Zambia as amended by Act No. 2 of 2016 and Section 5 of the Ratification of International Agreements Act No 34 of 2026, the National Assembly is vested with the power to oversee the performance of the Executive functions by, among other things, approving international agreements and treaties before they are acceded to or ratified.

 

Mr Speaker, in this regard, your Committee was mandated to scrutinise and make recommendations to the House on the Executive’s proposal to ratify the Protocol for the Convention on the Suppression of Unlawful Acts Against the Safety of Maritime Navigation.

 

Sir, the protocol is a supplement to the Convention on the Suppression of Unlawful Acts Against the Safety of Maritime Navigation of 1988. It was adopted by the International Conference on the Suppression of Unlawful Acts Against the Safety of Maritime Navigation at Rome on 10^th March, 1988 and came into force on 1^st March, 1992.

 

Mr Speaker, although Zambia has ratified the Suppression of Unlawful Acts Convention, it is among the United Nations (UN) member states that have not yet ratified the protocol. However, according to Resolution 40/611 of the General Assembly of the UN, to which Zambia is a party, all states and in co-operation with other states are urged to contribute to the progression of elimination of causes underlying international terrorism and to pay special attention to all situations, including colonialism, racism and situations involving the violation of human rights that may give rise to international terrorism and may endanger international peace and security. It is a requirement, therefore, that Zambia be compliant to this UN resolution.

 

Mr Speaker, the Committee is satisfied that the ratification of the protocol to the Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts Against the Safety of Maritime Navigation is in the best interest of the nation as the necessary condition set out in the ratification of International Agreement Act, 2016 have been met.

 

Sir, your Committee, therefore, recommends that the National Assembly approves this proposal without preservations.

 

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

 

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

 

Mr A. B. Malama: Now, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Speaker, as I second the Motion on the Floor of the House, allow me to elucidate just a few more issues that were raised in the report. On the background, although Zambia is a landlocked country and it has no sea coast, indeed, it relies on its neighbours to access most of the goods that are brought into the country. In the midst of these trade and commerce activities, there are Zambians in the country and those living abroad who would like to engage in illegal practices, and so, we need to curtail these activities.

 

Mr Speaker, when we talk about benefits, Zambia today is what it is because of the sea coast, for everything that comes into the country comes in through the sea. This has seen the growth or expansion of the inlets. We can talk of Dar-re-Salaam in Tanzania, Beira in Mozambique, Durban in South Africa and Walvis Bay in Namibia. All these are entry points for most of our goods into the country. This is the more reason for our country to comply and ratify this convention.

 

Mr Speaker, regarding the existing laws, the Chairperson has ably highlighted how they relate to the protocol. Indeed, there is no law in Zambia that specifically and adequately addresses the unlawful acts of violence against the safety of maritime navigation. The ratification of the protocol is, therefore, part of Zambia’s international obligation as a member of international institutions, among others.

 

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, it is important that our Government ratifies this convention so that we are in tandem with what other countries have done.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Mwila (Chimwemwe): Mr Speaker, I would like to talk about what it means for our country to ratify this protocol. Firstly, if we ratify this protocol –

 

Mr Ngulube: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Ngulube: Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to raise a very important point of order on a matter of national importance.

 

Mr Speaker, you will recall that the last or two weeks ago, the hon. Leader of the Opposition, Hon. Jack Mwiimbu, while debating, threatened to drag this House to Court over a matter concerning the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019. Indeed, he went to the High Court to try and block this House from deliberating on the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10. Today, the Lusaka High Court has just dismissed that case where Hon. Mwiimbu and his colleagues were trying to block this House from going ahead with enacting constitutional amendments through the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10.

 

Mr Speaker is Hon. Jack Mwiimbu in order to have threatened this House and to have gone to Court and also to pretend the whole of today that he was not aware that he had lost this case.

 

Mr Speaker, I need your serious ruling in order for the people of Zambia to know what the outcome of those court proceedings is.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Speaker: Well! The hon. Leader of the Opposition, of course, was within his rights as an individual to seek redress, as he sought to, before the courts of law. I am on record as respecting the doctrine of separation of powers, and we were all waiting for the High Court to exercise its jurisdiction on the matter. I am also not aware of the outcome. Going by your word, I believe you are honourable, that the matter has been dismissed, that is the outcome that we have to respect. If the hon. Member for Monze Central is not aware, I hope and I trust in due course his counsel will make him aware of that outcome. I think I cannot carry it higher than that.

 

Hon. Member for Chimwemwe, you may continue with your debate.

 

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, before I was interrupted, I was saying that the people of Chimwemwe would like to share, especially with the people of Chama South and Kasenengwa, what it means for our country to ratify the protocol that we are talking about in our debate. Firstly, once we ratify this protocol, it means that Zambia will be announcing to the entire world that our country shall not support unlawful maritime acts that include threatening the safety of ships and maritime fuel tankers. It also means that our country will not be in support of acts which threaten the security of passengers and the crew. It will also mean that Zambia will be announcing to the world that it stands ready to prosecute suspects and cartels of maritime offences and that it stands ready to extradite or prosecute internally, those suspects of maritime offences. Zambia shall also be announcing to the world that it shall not be used as a safe haven by those pirating cartels or those involved in maritime offences.

 

Mr Speaker, on the benefits, by ratifying this protocol, Zambia will be seen to be in good standing, especially with countries that are heavily involved in oil production. As a country, we can use that to negotiate for cheaper fuel for our country because those oil-producing countries will be viewing us as a good country. That will inevitably result in our fuel pump prices going down.

 

Mr Speaker, the other benefit is that if we ratify this protocol, it means Zambia will be contributing to the overall price reduction of fuel in that that action alone will result into reduced shipping insurance costs for these fuel tankers which will ultimately reduce the landed cost of fuel and the pump price. Therefore, because the pump price of fuel will come down, it means even our Treasury will start building international reserves which we can use to make our currency stronger, and this will lead to reduced cost of things because prices, generally, will be coming down.

 

Mr Speaker, the other reason or benefit for ratifying this protocol, and this is the last one, is that these oil-producing countries may help our country, especially our security wings, to improve and access high-tech equipment. Even if we do not use that technology in arresting these maritime offenders, we can use that inland in our local operations to contain armed robbers and political hooliganism. These are things that can be stopped in their tracks because of technology that we can access. This may include the benefit of getting free grants from these oil- producing countries.

 

Mr Speaker, with this contribution, I would like to thank you.

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, we will proceed in this fashion, I will allow the hon. Member for Keembe to be the last one to debate before the hon. Minister of Home Affairs responds on behalf of the Executive.

 

Ms Kasune (Keembe): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to support the Motion on the Floor as it relates to the ratification of the protocol to the conventions on maritime.

 

Mr Speaker, let me just add some points to what the previous speaker talked about in his debate. The benefits for ratifying the protocol could be seen as farfetched given that Zambia is a land-linked country. However, it is also not without benefits when we ratify this protocol. It was just yesterday that we bemoaned the non-ratification of protocols that Zambia has signed. The ramification, in the end, is that we sign agreements that are neither ratified nor domesticated leaving Zambia as a country that does not implement protocols that it signs.

 

Mr Speaker, as I support the Motion on the Floor, I would like to say to the Government that it is not much in how many international protocols it can sign, but in ratifying and domesticating them so that we can see the benefits. As the previous speaker said, it is important that our country takes advantage of being part of the countries that have signed or ratified this international convention so that it can especially benefit more from the importation of oil or crude oil.

 

Mr Speaker, we know that we are one of the countries whose price of fuel is very high. We can use some of these protocols to say to other members that we are standing with them in the right direction and hence need to be treated as partners even though we maybe land-linked and far from the ports.

 

Mr Speaker, secondly, if we are seen as a country that does not use sea vessels, it is important that we also bring to the conversation the different goods that we import as a country. This is not all. Our hope is not only to be a country of imports, but of exports so that we can actually contribute to the much needed domestic revenue. We did hear the hon. Minister of Finance speak to how, due to the Coronavirus Diseaese-19 (COVID-19) and many other reasons, our Gross Domestic Product (GDP) will be in the negative. Maybe we can begin to make these baby steps so that our country can actually benefit exporting things.

 

Mr Speaker, without wasting much time, I would like to say that on my own behalf and the people of Keembe Parliamentary Constituency, we support the Motion and look forward not only to the ratification of this international protocol, but to its  implementation and benefit of the country at large.

 

Mr Speaker, I submit and support the Motion on the Floor.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for giving me an opportunity on behalf of the Government to respond to the Motion on the Floor to adopt the Report of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Affairs on the National Assembly Approval of the Proposal to Ratify the Protocol for the International Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts Against the Safety of Maritime Navigation Supplementary to the Convention on the Suppression of Unlawful Acts Against the Safety of Maritime Navigation of 1988 for the Fourth Session of the Twelfth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on 3^rd July, 2020.

 

Mr Speaker, the mover of the Motion has adequately addressed the features of the protocol, but I would like to just request my two colleagues who have debated –

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

(Debate adjourned)

 

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The House adjourned at 1156 hours until Tuesday, 21^st July, 2020.

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