Wednesday, 1^st July, 2020

 

The House met at 1430 hours

 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

 

UPDATE ON GASSING INCIDENTS

 

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo): Mr Speaker, I am grateful for this opportunity to provide an update on the gassing incidents in the country. The last ministerial statement on this subject was issued on the Floor of this august House on 18^th February, 2020. The statement covered the period August 2019 to 18^th February, 2020, and was issued owing to a series of unusual criminal incidents ranging from:

 

1. physical attacks on households living in unfinished buildings;
2. spraying offensive and choking chemicals in homes, schools and colleges;
3. spreading false information to cause fear and incite the public against law and order and some private individuals;
4. disorderly conduct, including harassment of innocent people, looting and destruction of public and private property; and
5. instant mob justice.

 

Sir, these criminal incidents caused widespread insecurity in the country. Therefore, my statement today is an update on the security situation for the period 20^th February to 19^th June, 2020. During this period, I am pleased to report that there have been no reports of physical attacks on households living in unfinished buildings or houses. Regrettably, however, there have been reports of other criminal activities ranging from spraying offensive and choking chemicals in homes, schools and colleges to the spreading of false information to cause fear and incite members of the public to take the law into their own hands, disorderly conduct, including harassment of innocent people, looting and destruction of public and private property, and mob justice, like I mentioned earlier.  

 

Sir, during the period under review, the incidents were of lower intensity and were predominantly in rural provinces. There have been no further incidents recorded since 4^th March, 2020. The Zambia Police Service recorded minimal incidents that created widespread public insecurity only up to 4^th March, 2020.

 

Mr Speaker, the details of the criminal incidents reported between 20^th February and 4^th March, 2020 are as follows:

 

Spraying of Offensive and Choking Chemicals in Homes, Schools and Colleges

 

 Sir, the Zambia Police Service recorded 570 incidents of spraying offensive and choking chemicals in homes, schools and colleges. These incidents were concentrated in the outlying rural parts of our country broken down as follows:

 

Province                                  No. of Incidents

 

Copperbelt                              369

 

Lusaka                                        56

 

Muchinga                                   37

 

Western                                      37

 

Central                                       19

 

Luapula                                      17

 

Southern                                     16

 

Northern                                     13

 

Eastern                                         6

 

Sir, during the period under review, the North-Western Province did not report any incidents of homes, schools or colleges being sprayed with offensive and choking chemicals. During the period under review, the Zambia Police Service arrested forty-six suspects for spraying offensive and choking chemicals in homes, schools and colleges. All the suspects are appearing in various the courts of law.

 

Spreading Falsehoods to Cause Fear and Incite the Public against Law and Order and Private Individuals

 

Mr Speaker, the spreading of false information to cause fear and incite the public against law and order and some private individuals continued during the period under review. In some instances, the spreading of false information led to riots and innocent persons being targeted by mobs, destruction of property and loss of lives due to instant mob justice. The incidents of riots and instant mob justice recorded during the period under review are discussed later.

Sir, during the period under review, the spreading of false information through social media platforms declined to some extent. This can be attributed to the Zambia Police Service, having arrested some people who were using social media platforms to spread falsehoods and incite members of the public to take the law into their own hands. To that end, three people, who included one female and two males, based on the Copperbelt and Lusaka provinces respectively, were arrested for the promotion of hatred, violence and public disorder. The three persons apprehended, so far, are appearing before the courts of law.

 

Disorderly Conduct, Looting and Destruction of Public and Private Property

 

Mr Speaker, the spreading of false information through social media platforms and word of mouth led to riots, like I have earlier stated, looting and the destruction of public and private property in four provinces during the period under review. The four provinces which experienced incidents of disorderly conduct are Lusaka, Central, the Eastern and Luapula provinces. To restore order, the Zambia Police Service arrested 367 persons for disorderly and riotous behaviour. One hundred and thirty-three of those arrested were in Lusaka Province, while 117 were in Central Province. The Eastern and Luapula provinces accounted for sixty-five and fifty-two of those arrested for disorderly conduct and rioting respectively.

 

The rest of the provinces, notably the Copperbelt, Southern, North-Western, Northern, Muchinga and the Western did not record any incidents of disorderly conduct and rioting during the period under review.

 

Instant Mob Justice

 

Sir, concerning incidents of instant mob justice, a total of sixty-eight lives were lost in eight of our provinces, broken down as follows:

 

Province                                  No. of Lives Lost

 

Northern                                  16

 

Central                                    14

 

Copperbelt                              10

 

Lusaka                                     08

 

Eastern                                    07

 

Muchinga                                06

 

Luapula                                   04

 

Southern                                  03

 

Total                                        68

 

There was no loss of life as a result of instant mob justice in the Western and the North-Western provinces during the period under review.

 

Mr Speaker, so far, 116 people have been arrested in connection with mob justice incidents. The arrests recorded were as follows:

 

Province                                  No. of Arrests

 

Central                                    35

 

Muchinga                                30

 

Copperbelt                              13

 

Northern                                  12

 

Southern                                  10

 

Luapula                                   10

 

Western                                   04

 

Lusaka                                     01

 

Eastern                                    01

 

Total                                      116

 

Sir, those arrested are appearing before the courts of law. Investigations into the deaths resulting from instant mob justice have also continued. It is my sincere hope that the long arm of the law shall, in due course, bring to book all those responsible for the deaths of our people through instant mob justice.

 

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, as indicated earlier, the Zambia Police Service has since 4^th March, 2020, not recorded any unusual criminal activities which have disrupted the lives of our people, particularly, between December, 2019 and 3^rd March, 2020. To a great extent, law and order has been restored. Therefore, my Government is grateful to our men and women in uniform drawn from both the defence and security wings, whose sacrifices have helped to stem out the tide of lawlessness that gripped our country.

 

Sir, the Commander-in-Chief of the Defence and Security Services, His Excellency the President, Dr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, has tasked the men and women in uniform to ensure that peace and security prevail in our country. The Zambia Police Service is also expected to bring to book all those responsible for the crime wave that has tarnished the good image of our country. There are no sacred cows in our fight against attempts to bring chaos to Zambia. All the persons involved, regardless of their standing in society, shall be brought to book. In that regard, some progress has been made in arresting some of the people responsible for these activities. However, more work remains to be done, as we have a duty to get to the bottom of the extreme crime wave that visited our land.

 

Mr Speaker, I would be failing in my duty if I did not extend my gratitude to persons and institutions that had supported our men and women in uniform through the provision of information and material resources when peace and security in our country were threatened. Allow me to also commend the general citizenry throughout the country who refused to lose their humanity by participating in lawlessness ranging from spreading false information to unjustified demonstrations, disorderly conduct, riots and, indeed, instant mob justice.

 

Sir, peace and security in our country can only be assured when we, as Zambians, all work together. We are one family. We must love and cherish each other in diversity. Therefore, we must all promote peace and justice in our country to ensure that Zambia remains a beacon of peace and security in the region and beyond.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, you are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement given by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs.

 

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, the statement that the hon. Minister has brought to our attention is very sad because we all went through this situation. For Zambians not to get back to this level of selfishness that we saw, whereby spreading of falsehoods, looting and also instant killing happened, what is it that we are doing both, as a Government and even as individuals, especially as leaders, to ensure that our children and brothers do not get back to these sad incidents in future?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I sincerely appreciate the follow-up question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Kaputa. I know he is asking in that manner because, at the back of his mind, he knows that a border in his constituency receives people who run away from a neighbouring country where instability has, sometimes, forced many families to move away from their homes. Therefore, we, as a people, need to collectively learn to appreciate the value of peace and co-existence even in diversity. The responsibility to maintain peace in this country should not be left to the Government alone. I know that the Government constitutes the Executive as well as the people’s representatives. So, it is important that all of us take part in inculcating patriotism in our people to make them appreciate the value of peace and to discourage them from spreading falsehoods, which can culminate into disorderly conduct and disrupt peace.

 

Mr Speaker, having the responsibility of looking after refugees who run away from countries which peace has eluded, I hear many stories about how women and children are made to walk long distances in search of sanctuary. We would not want to see our people end up in that situation. It is our collective responsibility, in our diversity, to ensure that we maintain peace and preach it at all times.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I also want to thank the hon. Minister for the statement he has given to the nation and this House about the security situation. Having listened to the hon. Minister attentively, I would like to find out from him why his ministry has allowed disorderly conduct and lawlessness by Patriotic Front (PF) cadres, who have been attacking radio stations throughout the country. Why has he allowed PF cadres to demonstrate with impunity at any time they want without following procedure? Does the hon. Minister not think that such conduct contributes to disorder and lawlessness in the country?

 

Mr Speaker: I am pondering over your question because the way I understand it is that ...

 

Dr Chanda: Not related.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Speaker: ... the hon. Minister of Home Affairs has come up with a very specific subject on gassing. The opportunity you have now is to seek clarification on the statement that he has made.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I need your guidance.

 

Mr Speaker: That is the guidance I am providing.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I do not know whether disorderly conduct is gassing. The hon. Minister talked about disorderly conduct, gassing and the abuse of social media. He raised those issues himself. He did not confine himself to gassing, and that is why I raised the issue. He also said that there is now peace.

 

Mr Speaker: Take your seat, hon. Member.

 

The disorderly conduct he referred to has a specific context. If you followed the statement closely, he said there was mob justice in response to this scourge. I am not discounting the reality of your concerns, but you will agree with me that you are bringing in a new subject. I do not want us to rove or wander away from the statement. Anyway, procedurally, the issue here and now for the entire House is to seek clarification on the statement and not to bring in new subjects or issues. That is not what we are doing now. You need to seek clarification on the statement. I will still give you an opportunity if you have something to clarify from the statement that the hon. Minister has made.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, the hon. Minister has heard my concern.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Speaker: I am sure he has.

 

Laughter

 

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said peace now prevails in the country. I would like to think that peace will be considered to be prevailing once the masterminds of this gassing are captured and arrested.

 

Sir, a senior police officer announced that the kingpins behind the gassing had been arrested. After that, there was silence and we understand that this officer was sent away. Could the hon. Minister confirm to this House and the country at large that the ring leaders and masterminds of the gassing attack have, indeed, been apprehended?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I have given statistics in my statement of the suspects who have been arrested and are appearing before the courts of law for all the activities that took place during the gassing period. It is not my job to describe who is a mastermind in those matters. All I can confirm is that we have suspects in all the activities that took place, some of which resulted in some of our innocent citizens losing their lives, including instant justice, gassing and riotous behaviour.

 

Sir, we have suspects and I have given statistics which I will lay on the Table of the House so that the hon. Member of Parliament for Liuwa can have them. It will, then, be his responsibility to follow what will come out of the courts of law. We are structured in such a way that the law enforcement agencies do their part by investigating matters, effect arrests, prepare dockets and forward them to the National Prosecution Authority (NPA), which then takes up the matters with the courts of law. That is how it works.

 

Sir, with your indulgence, I got the concerns of Hon. Jack Mwiimbu. My brief response to him is that lawlessness is lawlessness. Where lawlessness is reported, it will be dealt with within the confines of the law. No lawlessness is exempt from pursuit.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mwila (Chimwemwe): Mr Speaker, the people of Chimwemwe would like to find out whether our laboratory technicians have since identified the offensive and choking chemical that was being used by gassers and whether the country of source has been known.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, these are matters that are before the courts of law, as I said. Those who are charged with the responsibility to analyse and identify these chemicals will have their day to tender their submissions before the courts of law. It is not for the Minister to delve into those issues.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Nanjuwa (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, it is a fact that this operation was very extensive. As a result, I am very sure that a lot of money was spent on it. Is the hon. Minister able to give us and the nation an idea of how much the ministry spent on this operation?

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, give a response if you are able to.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, unfortunately, I am unable to do so. However, obviously, the operations of the police are budgeted for through this august House. When operations like that are being undertaken, they could either be within the budget that was authorised by this august House or if there is a need, resources are mobilised by the Ministry of Finance. I do not have the figures at my fingertips, but that is what I can say for now.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mbangweta (Nkeyema): Mr Speaker, I am a bit concerned to note that the hon. Minister has just given statistics of various offences but has not indicated the bigger picture. I do not know, in his opinion, who will indicate this bigger picture of where this problem started. Even if the issue has gone to court, I would imagine that the various aspects are what will be looked at. So, in his opinion, who is supposed to give the bigger picture?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, my role is not to speculate. I do not know what bigger picture the hon. Member is referring to. What I have given here are the facts, as they stand. This is why I am giving statistics. If the hon. Member of Parliament has any bigger picture in his mind that he wants to hear about, I can only encourage him to follow the court proceedings because it is there that all these matters will be determined. That is how the justice system functions. It is not for me to come here and start speculating.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mbulakulima (Milenge): Mr Speaker, this matter is very close to my heart. This is because one person in my constituency died and another young man is still hospitalised at the University Teaching Hospitals (UTH) due to the same confusion the hon. Minister mentioned. This matter was not only unprecedented, but also quite unique. To me, it was next to treason. Has the Government established what the motive was or do we have to wait to hear it from the courts of law?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I mentioned in my statement that there is still more work to be done to get to the bottom of what transpired. However, on whether we should have different systems to analyse these matters is another thing. Indeed, the incidents that occurred left indelible scars and marks on the lives of many people. Like I said, lives were lost. So, we, as a Government, will be very interested to follow through the outcomes from the courts of law because that is how the system is designed. If there are other ways of looking at these matters, they could be discussed later. For now, we are relying on the system, as established, to see that these matters are thoroughly decided upon by the courts of law.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out how far the police have gone with the investigations into the death of Frank Mugala, who was a Grade 9 pupil at Chazanga Primary School and was shot dead by the police. This is one of the deaths that actually shook our minds, as it was a very sad situation.

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Mufumbwe, I did not really get your question. Can you repeat it.

 

Mr Kamondo: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out how far the police have gone into the investigations of the death of Frank Mugala, who was a pupil at Chazanga Primary School.

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Mufumbwe, how is this related to the statement?

 

Mr Kamondo: Mr Speaker, this one is related because the boy was shot during the time of mob injustice on 13^th of February, 2020, that resulted from the gassing incidents. It happened here in Lusaka’s Chazanga area due to the gassing situation.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I acknowledge the incident which the hon. Member of Parliament Mufumbwe has referred to. This is an incident in which a young citizen was caught up in the riots that erupted in the area where he was. In the police’s quest to contain the situation, this young man was shot at.

 

Mr Speaker, inquiries are still being conducted. When they are concluded, the reports will be tendered for the information of the members of the public and, most importantly, the family.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether the hon. Minister knows the reason these people were gassing, and since they are poor, I would like to know who was funding them.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I take note of the question by the hon. Member for Nangoma. If that is how things worked, we could have concluded the matter. I would have come with the information that the police had found out and given it out. However, I have said that we are structured in a way that the law enforcement agency, which is the Zambia Police Service, has done its part by conducting investigations, effecting arrests and has prepared dockets based on the investigations that it had carried out.

 

Sir, neither do I micromanage the Zambia Police Service, nor do I determine who is guilty or who has done what. I cannot pronounce myself on that, unfortunately. Like I have said to many other people who have asked, these are issues that the hon. Member of Parliament can follow-up on with keen interest, as they unfold in the courts of law because it is there where the issues of where the perpetrators were getting the substances and who was funding them will be dealt with, revealed and proven by those who were investigating these matters.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Dr Chibanda (Mufulira): Mr Speaker, my question has been overtaken.

 

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister spoke about falsehoods on social media. Seeing as the trend of falsehoods has continued, what is the ministry doing to curb it to avoid the alarming of this nation?

       

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, thank you so much. I was able to get the concern by the hon. Member for Chitambo quite clearly. He wishes to know what we, as a ministry, is doing to curb the issue of spreading falsehoods and alarming statements by some irresponsible members of the public.

 

Mr Speaker, indeed, it is a concern that some unscrupulous citizens have taken to social media, which ideally is supposed to be a communication tool for people, to concoct falsehoods which can be alarming and pose a threat to the peace that this country has enjoyed over the years. The Government is not sitting back, but capacitating the Zambia Police Service, which is closely working with the Zambia Information Communication Technology Authority (ZICTA) in ensuring that people abusing other citizens using social media are made to account for it. I want to assure the people of Zambia that this is a matter over which the Government will not relent because citizens who have suffered at the hands of such unscrupulous characters range from those in authority to ordinary citizens.

 

Mr Speaker, my assurance to the hon. Member of Parliament for Chitambo and the people of Zambia is that the Government will create an environment in which even the have not’s will have their freedoms protected because we all have our freedoms. One cannot claim to express his/her freedom by stepping on other people’s freedoms. It does not work that way. So, it is very important that I make a clarion call to all those that think they will continue getting away with these activities that it is time they engaged in introspection and stopped these activities because they will have themselves to blame. I must make this clear. The Government is also reaching out to the Judiciary to create a platform through which matters that have been investigated will be dealt with expeditiously.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Dr Imakando (Mongu): Mr Speaker, with regard to gassing, and following the many arrests and investigations that have been made, can the hon. Minister confirm if the gassing terror was centrally organised?

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I am getting concerned about the line of questioning. The hon. Minister has repeatedly said that he is not part of the prosecution team and he is not an investigator. However, some questions seem to aim at eliciting information from the hon. Minister as though he was a member of the prosecution team. In any case, these matters are before the courts of law.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I cannot put it any better than you have put it.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: We have a lot of work this afternoon. It is a point of clarification that hon. Members are being given an opportunity to seek. Therefore, I will now proceed to the next segment of our business.

 

_______

 

BILLS

 

FIRST READING

 

THE NATIONAL COUNCIL FOR CONSTRUCTION BILL, 2020

 

The Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development (Mr Mwale): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the National Council for Construction Bill, 2020. The objects of the Bill are to:

 

1. provide for the promotion, development and regulation of the construction industry so as to promote economic growth and competitiveness and create sustainable employment;
2. continue the existence of the National Council for Construction and provide for its functions;
3. enhance the public procurement management system relating to the procurement of construction works;
4. promote gender equality and equity in the construction industry;
5. affiliate professional bodies engaged in activities in the construction industry;
6. continue the existence of the Construction School and rename it as the National Construction School;
7.  provide for a complaints and appeals procedure;
8. repeal and replace the National Council for Construction Act, 2003; and

 

1.  provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing. 

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Transport, Works and Supply. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Tuesday, 21^st July, 2020. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

 

I thank you.

 

THE FOOD RESERVE BILL, 2020

 

Mr Speaker: Is the Minister of Agriculture in the House?

 

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Katambo): (Inaudible)

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister of Agriculture, you are not audible. Can you seek assistance, please. Hon. Minister of Agriculture, I will get back to you later. Her Honour the Vice-President will come to your aid. Her Honour the Vice-President will assist the hon. Minister of Agriculture.

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, I beg to present the Food Reserve Bill, 2020. The objects of the Bill is to provide for the following:

 

1. continue the existence of the Food Reserve Agency and re-define its functions;
2. re-constitute the Board of the Agency;
3. continue the existence of the National Strategic Food Reserve;
4. repeal and replace the Food Reserve Act, 1995; and
5. provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Speaker:  The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Agriculture, Lands and Natural Resources. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Tuesday, 21^st July, 2020. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

 

_______

 

MOTIONS

 

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON CABINET AFFAIRS

 

Dr Imakando (Mongu Central): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Cabinet Affairs for the Fourth Session of the Twelfth National Assembly laid on the Table of the House on 12^th June, 2020.

 

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

 

Mr C. M.  Zulu (Luangeni): Mr Speaker, I second the Motion. 

 

Dr Imakando: Mr Speaker, pursuant to its programme of work for the Fourth Session of the Twelfth National Assembly, your Committee considered submissions on the role of the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC) in the fight against corruption and other financial crimes. Your Committee also considered the Action-Taken Report on the Committee’s Report for the Third Session of the Twelfth National Assembly.

 

Sir, allow me to comment on some of the key issues contained in your Committee’s report. In the last two decades, as part of the internationally accepted standards and efforts to curb financial crimes associated with money laundering and terrorist financing, countries across the globe have been establishing financial intelligence centres. In Zambia, FIC was established in 2010, under the Financial Intelligent Centre Act, 2010 of the Laws of Zambia, as amended in 2016. The FIC is a sole designated national agency mandated to receive, request, analyse and disseminate disclosure of information of suspicious financial transaction reports to competent authorities for investigation with a view to combat serious financial crimes.

 

Mr Speaker, since the establishment of FIC, some members of the public have commended its work, particularly the issuance of the annual trends reports that provide a strong basis for investigative and law enforcement agencies to fight financial crime and help save financial resources required for socio-economic development. However, some sections of society have labelled FIC as an institution that uses unverified raw data to raise unnecessary alarm for law enforcement agencies at the expense of fighting real financial crime.

 

Mr Speaker, in order to better understand the subject under consideration, your Committee sought the views of various institutions and stakeholders who made both written and oral submissions. Therefore, in light of this, your Committee makes the following observations and recommendations.

 

Sir, your Committee observed that there is a lack of a national policy framework in dealing with domestic co-oporation and co-ordination on matters of terrorist financing and the lack of an anti-money laundering and countering the financing of terrorism strategy and policy. Therefore, your Committee urges the Government to expedite the finalisation of the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering the Financing of Terrorism National Policy as this will ensure that key money laundering and terrorist financing risks are addressed.

 

Mr Speaker, your Committee expresses worry over the provision in the Financial Intelligence Centre Act that allows FIC to request for feedback on the progress of an investigation or report that was shared with the law enforcement agencies or competent authorities. This is because the Act does not place an obligation on such a law enforcement agency or competent authority to act on a matter referred to it by the centre. If this continues, it will weaken the effectiveness of FIC. Therefore, your Committee strongly recommends that the Government ensures that the law is amended to make it mandatory for law enforcement agencies or competent authorities to act on matters referred to them by FIC and report on the progress and outcomes of such matters to FIC.

 

Sir, your Committee observes that funding to FIC is not adequate to enable it to carry out its duties effectively and this also affects the organisation’s other activities such as the ability to recruit employees and undertake sensitisation or public awareness campaigns. In this regard, your Committee recommends that there should be increased funding to FIC to enable it to carry out its mandate effectively. The fight against financial crime is very sophisticated. Thus, it requires specialised skills and continued training. Therefore, the need for more funding cannot be overemphasised. A well-funded FIC will be able to produce actionable financial intelligence reports.

 

Mr Speaker, your Committee observed that Zambia does not have a case management system in place, which makes it difficult to determine the time within which the number of requests are handled, feedback and the quality of information received. In this regard, your Committee recommends that the Government sets up a case management system to assist in tracking and monitoring the execution of requests.

 

Mr Speaker, your Committee observed that information sharing is inadequate and inefficient due to the non-existence of a shared computer-based system between FIC and State investigative and law enforcement agencies for inputting, storing and retrieval of intelligence information. In this regard, your Committee recommends that a computer-based information system be installed at FIC through which to input, store, retrieve and share intelligence information for the members of the Anti-money Laundering Authority.

 

Mr Speaker, let me conclude by saying that Zambia is a party to various international conventions, including those related to combating money laundering and terrorist financing. Adhering and implementing these conventions will ensure that Zambia is not cut off from the rest of the global financial system and risk adverse consequences for capital flows for investment in the country.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

 

Mr C. M. Zulu: Now, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to second the Motion.

 

Sir, as a Committee, we looked at the role of the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC) in the fight against corruption and financial crimes. Most of the stakeholders submitted that there is a problem of co-ordination between FIC and law enforcement agencies. There is no coordination, and this brings about problems and differences between FIC and law enforcement agencies like the Zambia Police Service, the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC) and the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC).Although we have the Anti-Corruption Commission Policy in place, it is not being adhered to.

 

Mr Speaker, the other problem we found was that FIC does not inform the public adequately so that it knows what it exists for, what it means for one to be corrupt and what financial crimes are all about. So, the people of Zambia need to know about such things. Further, the people in Luangeni Parliamentary Constituency and Kabompo Parliamentary Constituency do not know about FIC. So, it should do a bit more to sell itself so that the citizens are aware of its roles in this country.

 

Sir, the Chairperson has ably moved the Motion and, I think, there is not much for me to say. However, I just want to comment on one thing that was brought up by two or three stakeholders. They were of the view that the Government wants to do away with FIC by giving its functions to DEC because it already does some of the things which FIC does. So, we made it very clear that there was no such thing as the Government wanting to do away with FIC and maintaining DEC because the two organisations run separately.

 

Mr Speaker, once again, I thank you for according me the opportunity to debate. The Office of the Clerk did a good job, and I thank it for the services it provided to us. I also thank all my colleagues here for listening attentively.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mbangweta (Nkeyema): Mr Speaker, thank you very much.

 

Sir, I commend your Committee for doing a very good job on this particular subject. In the contents of the reports which have been submitted this week, I think, there is a common thread in the way we are being managed in this country. According to what has been stated in the report, quite clearly, the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC) in Zambia should operate like other similar institutions in the world. Indeed, since other centres with similar mandates share similar information and carry out activities like our FIC, it must operate like them. If FIC is doing its work properly, it stands to reason that the Government and the people of Zambia should embrace this organisation because it is doing a good job.

 

Mr Speaker, we get concerned when we see what we saw in the recent past when FIC issued its annual trends reports. The Executive, which should welcome the results of the work of FIC, appeared not to be happy. It is like hot coal being thrown in its shoes, which should not be the case, because there is so much corruption in this country, through which the Government is losing money. Thus, the Government should be willing to listen and should not be at the forefront of trying to discredit the work of this institution.

 

Sir, as a matter of fact, an ordinary Zambian, myself included, feels that this particular institution is working at the level of international standards. Thus, it should be well-funded so that it can execute its mandate to the required standard. If it does that, even foreign direct investment (FDI) or the investors coming to this country will be assured that it is a haven and that there is no corruption and the standards are alright. However, when the people who should support the centre do not want to fund it adequately, we will, then, start wondering what the intention is because if there is an institution that is supposed to add value to the activities of the Government, it is this one.

 

Mr Speaker, other law enforcement agencies, for example, the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC), are supposed to work in tandem with this particular institution. However, despite the proven issues of corruption in this country, through which we are losing so much money every year, very few high profile cases are being investigated, taken to court and subsequently, prosecuted with successful convictions. On the contrary, we have Mickey Mouse cases that do not add value at the end of the day in terms of the actual resources this country has lost. So, on that basis, we commend your Committee and request well-meaning Zambians to support the work of FIC in its current form and mandate. They should also insist that it be funded appropriately so that it can execute its mandate and we can save money which can be used for development, and not going into the pockets of very few people.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to also add my voice to the debate on your Committee’s report.

 

Sir, this report is very important to Zambians, more especially that there has been a lot of debate regarding the existence of the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC). Time has now come for the Government to stand firm on its position on whether FIC is required. The report has revealed many positives. So, Zambia needs this institution, but what is not needed is political interference. We have established many institutions and they should not be cut and paste. We should go into depth to achieve realism. Why do I say so? We establish institutions, but at the same time use them for political expediency, and this should stop.

 

Mr Speaker, FIC has investigated some cases that were handed over to other agencies, which have remained mute. This is discouraging the effort of the officers who have been mandated to investigate the cases. There is a case in mind to do with copper. To date, that case has not been fully investigated by those who were charged with the responsibility. That being the case, we need to revisit the law so that FIC is given more powers.

 

Sir, indeed, there is very little difference between corruption and money laundering. In Zambia, when there is a small issue concerning a member of the Opposition, law enforcement officers are very quick to arrest and detain him/her. However, when it comes to real issues that are denting the image of the country, cases are not even investigated. We have seen foreigners enjoy their life in Zambia than us, the owners of this country, and the reason is simple. They are bringing in money for cleaning in Zambia. In view of the poverty levels and greediness, a foreigner is more respected than the owner of the country, and this trend should change. Those of us in leadership should rebuild our integrity by upholding the existence of institutions like FIC.

 

Mr Speaker, today, I want the Government to say that it will uphold the existence of FIC by supporting it and ensure that it is relevant to this country than pretending that it exists, but nothing is being done to help it produce positive results.

 

Sir, nobody will come to defend our country. We, the owners, should defend this country. What should happen in this country is that the Opposition and the Ruling Party should work together to fight corruption. We should not have an instance where the fight against corruption is one-sided. Only members of the Opposition suffer while those in the Ruling Party are kings and queens and can do whatever they want.

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, this should be condemned, and we should stand-up against it as Zambians.

 

Sir, this is a good report that we should all support.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Mwila (Chimwemwe): Mr Speaker, allow me to –

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Chimwemwe, a point of order is raised.

 

Mr Ngulube (Kabwe Central): Mr Speaker, it is not a point of order. I was indicating to debate the report, but I think the system is showing it as a point of order.

 

Mr Speaker: Very well. There is no point of order.

 

Hon. Member for Chimwemwe, please, proceed with your debate. There is no point of order.

 

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I was saying that I agree with almost all the recommendations by your Committee, especially the one that says that there is a need for the Government to quickly sort out the national policy framework that will address the legal and regulatory issues surrounding the operations of the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC) and the coordination between it and other law enforcement agencies, which is currently at its lowest level.

 

Sir, on page 18 of the report, your Committee said that there are negative perceptions regarding the scrutiny of suspicious transactions by politically exposed persons. I think the message from the people of Chimwemwe to FIC is that it should come out clean on this allegation that it is there to target cases related to politicians and that it just reports things about politicians and those who currently holding public office, especially those aligned with the Ruling Party. I think FIC should come out clean on that notion because it will not help in the administration of the country.

 

Mr Speaker, the people of Chimwemwe would like to see a situation whereby once the Government sorts out the policy framework, FIC helps the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) address the transfer mispricing, especially by multinational companies. What is currently happening is that our country is losing so much money through the mining industry where some mining giants have been declaring losses for sixteen years. Today, our kwacha is just about less than K18 per US$1, and people have been asking why our currency is this unstable. The answer lies in the colossal sums of money that the country is losing through transfer mispricing. So, FIC should move in and help the Government track down the mining giants and multinational companies that are evading tax through this financial practice of transfer mispricing.

 

Sir, at the moment, most of the mines on the Copperbelt have been placed under care and maintenance. So, I think FIC should help the Government. Why is it that whenever our country heads towards General Elections, we see some multinational companies placing most of the mines on care and maintenance? Is it because they want to influence the elections so that a certain political party moves out of power and another one comes in? These are the issues that we want FIC to helps us out with.

 

Mr Speaker, we have been reading the newspapers that monies, especially from our country, exit our borders for other safe havens like Panama and the Bahamas. So, the people of Chimwemwe agree with the recommendations of your Committee that the funding of FIC must improve so that if there are stories like that, then, they must be followed up to a logical conclusion so that they are put to rest once and for all. It is also true that some of the transfers to safe havens keep coming up towards every Presidential Election. It is alleged that some people have transferred huge sums of money and are alleged to be behind the weak currency. So, these are some of the issues that we want FIC to help sort out and not just allegedly targeting the sitting Government or Head of State, hon. Ministers or politicians who are aligned with the Ruling Party.

 

Sir, with those few remarks, the people of Chimwemwe are saying that this is a wonderful report. The funding to FIC must be improved so that we start saving the monies that the country may be losing unnecessarily for our currency to stabilise once and for all.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Mecha (Chifunabuli): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to add a voice to the debate on this important report, and allow me to thank your Committee for giving us such a good report.

 

Sir, I have seen the Auditor-General’s reports and the processes that are followed for quite some time. I know that at no point has the public actually interfered in the work of the Auditor-General. So, it makes me very unhappy and concerned when people get so interested in interfering in the work of the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC).

 

Mr Mecha: Mr Speaker, FIC is a governance institution just like the Auditor-General’s Office. These are institutions that are expected to enhance democracy and the levels of transparency in the country. Basically, FIC, in its design, is expected to interface with two sets of institutions, which are the investigative wings and financial institutions. We must be cognisant of the fact that the more we interfere in the work of FIC, the more we compromise the institutional integrity of governance institutions that we have put in place.

 

Mr Speaker, the people of Zambia are concerned about two things. I am aware that the findings and the FIC report are supposed to be confidential. That is why when you read the trends report, you will note that there are no names mentioned in that report because investigations need not be compromised. However, social media has found it very easy to discuss the contents of the FIC reports, especially naming individuals, and one wonders how people are getting this information. That is not good for investigations, and everybody knows that. We are basically exposing this institution unnecessarily. What is even making matters worse is the fact that people on social media are abusing the information they obtain with impunity and that has been allowed. The basic question that needs to be asked is: How are social media players managing to get information which they are not supposed to get? Why have we allowed them to get away with it?

 

Mr Speaker, the implications on the financial institutions are quite heavy. These are institutions holding on to people’s money or deposits. If confidence is lost in such institutions, who is going to suffer the consequences? It is the people of Zambia. There is always a need to get loans from the financial institutions. If we compromise that loan portfolio, we will be the first ones to complain about the banks not giving us money or them giving out loans at very high interest rates. These are some of the implications and consequences that people are likely to suffer.

 

Sir, I agree with the recommendation of your Committee that, indeed, adequate funds must be released timely to FIC. What is even more important is for FIC to assure the country that it is going to maintain its institutional integrity. If it does not do so, the people will eventually lose confidence in it. When that happens, who is going to suffer? It is the people of Zambia because this is a very important institution that is expected to safeguard money on behalf of the people of Zambia. So, the people are interested in it, and nobody should say that anyone is against FIC. In its current form, FIC is alright, and is likely to give us the results that we, as the people of Zambia, desire in terms of safeguarding our money.

 

Mr Speaker, I wish to support the report.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Ngulube: Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity given to the people of Kabwe Central Parliamentary Constituency to add their voice to the debate on the report. Allow me to state that the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC) has been a centre of discussion. Many people have made falsehoods by alarming the nation and using FIC as a source of untruths that they have been coming up with.

 

Mr Speaker, allow me, at this point, to just highlight that the FIC was designated to specifically deal with suspicious transactions. We are aware that the Financial Intelligence Centre Act created FIC in 2010, which is more than ten years ago or roughly about ten years ago. It appears that the majority of the people did not know about FIC. In 2016, this House amended the Financial Intelligence Centre Act, through the Financial Intelligence (Amendment) Act, 2016. If you look at the amendment to the Act of 2016, you will see that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government was strengthening the Act so that FIC could have what I can refer to as teeth to bite. Many people do not seem to know that FIC is supposed to collect information. In fact, under Section 4 of the Act, FIC is actually the only institution mandated to collect and analyse information. If FIC thinks there are any suspicious transactions, it channels such information to the law enforcement agencies.

 

Mr Speaker, I have noticed that when this House discussed the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment), Bill No. 10 of 2019 and its proposed amendments, some people founded untruths that the Bank of Zambia desired to take over the functions of FIC. These people ran with such untruths to the public and social media. They also accused the PF Government of engineering the takeover of FIC by the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC). If you look at the roles and functions of DEC and those of FIC, you will see that they are different. The FIC is totally different from DEC. I would also like to talk about the short title of this Act, which I will read for the benefit of the public. The Act states as follows:

 

“This Act may be cited as the Financial Intelligence Centre Act, 2010, and shall come into operation on such date as the Minister may, by statutory instrument, appoint ...”

 

Sir, if you look at the purpose for which this Act was enacted, you will see that it was specifically enacted to deal with the financing for terrorist activities and suspicious financial transactions, among others. However, we have now also seen banks trying to abuse this Act. For instance, if you go to the bank to deposit a K100,000, you will be asked to fill in a form because they suspect that the money could not have been acquired genuinely. I do not think that is the role of this Act. Therefore, I appeal to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs to ensure that people are educated on the role of this Act and the functions that this House gave to FIC.

 

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, allow me to state that as a result of the misinformation gap that has arisen, a lot of abuse has been seen. We have seen that people can just wake up and take pictures of some property, post it on social media and accuse a particular individual of having bought that property. When they do that, they cite FIC as their source of information.

 

Mr Speaker, we also saw FIC becoming a mouthpiece for fuelling speculations. The role of FIC and its board is not to just communicate with anybody. That is not even to hon. Members of Parliament. Its role is to communicate with law enforcement agencies.

 

Mr Speaker, in my last statement, allow me to state that everyone cited by FIC is as innocent as anybody who has not been cited because the presumption of innocence in these matters is paramount, constitutional and must be respected.

 

Mr Speaker, with those few remarks, I wish to thank you and may God bless you.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Speaker: We will proceed in this fashion. We will have the hon. Member for Kaputa, followed by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and then the main response from the Executive will come from the hon. Minister of Finance.

 

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, on behalf of the people of Kaputa,  thank  you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the debate on this important report that has just been presented by the Committee on Cabinet Affairs on the role of the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC) in the fight against corruption and other financial crimes.

 

Mr Speaker, I would like to support this report because any effort that this Government or this nation makes in order to fight corruption and other financial crimes should be supported by all well-meaning Zambians.

 

Mr Speaker, this takes me to your Committee’s observation on page 21, item number three, where it observed that the co-ordination between FIC and the law enforcement agencies is weak and requires strengthening for better results in curbing corruption and serious financial crimes. For instance, even though the National Anti-Corruption Policy is in place, key stakeholders appear to be implementing it in silos. This should not be allowed because FIC is a very important body or institution within the governance system that must be supported. Therefore, every effort must be made so that the co-ordination between FIC and other institutions is upheld. Where there is no proper co-ordination or co-operation, you will find that each institution will want to defend and protect what it does best. However, the best would be to harmonise the work of these institutions so that they give Zambians the best that they can get out of them. The report is very clear that these institutions must be supported because the role they are playing is very important.

 

Sir, lastly, I agree with what the report has indicated on public engagement and discussion fora as one of the strategies that FIC should employ. I am sure it is doing something in this area, but not to the best of the knowledge of most Zambians. Public engagement of Zambians is very important. The report has given examples of the politically exposed persons and a definition of who these people are. Personally, I would say that those who are politically exposed are a high risk even to the banking sector. Therefore, if there are people who must be given full knowledge or awareness of what FIC is doing, it is the politically exposed persons. From the beginning, not only hon. Members of Parliament or hon. Ministers alone should be looked at, but also the whole political spectrum across Zambian nationals. All these people should be given necessary information because it tarnishes the reputation of every politician who is seen to be either corrupt or abetting corruption or financial crimes. I know that if most of those who are politically exposed were aware that there are institutions like this, which will follow them up to family level, I think all of us would do things properly for the sake of this nation.

 

Mr Speaker, the people of Kaputa would like to thank you for this opportunity.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo): Mr Speaker, thank you so much for allowing me this opportunity to also make a few comments on the debate on the Motion ably moved by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mongu Central Parliamentary Constituency and seconded by the hon. Member of Parliament for Luangeni.

 

Mr Speaker, like many people have explained, the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC) is a very important institution. Like your Committee learnt, the core function of FIC is to analyse the information it received and collected and to disseminate the results thereof to law enforcement agencies for investigations. It is very critical that we understand the nexus between this institution and the wings that conduct investigations.

 

Mr Speaker, your Committee was also informed of the capabilities of this institution to analyse this information, which is then shared with the law enforcement agencies. In the report, we have been informed that the institution has signed about nineteen Memoranda of Understanding (MoUs) with various investigative wings, including the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC), the Zambia Police Service, the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) and other competent authorities that it deals with.

 

Mr Speaker, like the seconder of the Motion said, we, as a Government, that operationalised this institution in 2015 and strengthened it by amending the law in 2016, as the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwe Central stated, appreciate and understand the need for it. This is an institution which is supposed to sieve the finances that flow into this country and ensure that they are not coming to destabilise this country through acts of terrorism or money laundering. What we need to strengthen is the collaboration between institutions because intelligence information will remain intelligence information, which it can only be shared with the authorities that are able to utilise it competently to avoid the risk that the hon. Deputy Chief Whip referred to, which is people engaging in speculation.

 

Mr Speaker, the challenge that some of the investigative wings have had is that sometimes, the information that they are supposed to investigate is already in the public domain and, maybe, the suspects they are supposed to pursue are already alerted. These are things that we need to apply our minds to make this institution effective and enable it to perform its functions.

 

Sir, the MoUs that this institution has signed with other institutions stipulate how information should be shared, how feedback should be given and how matters should be prosecuted –

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I am being distracted by one unruly gentleman.

 

Sir, on our part, as a Government, we look at this institution with law enforcement agencies as a glove and a punch in a boxing ring because they need each other for them to pursue these cases and protect this country. There is need to make sure that the institutions follow the movement of finances and affiliate with other institutions that are beyond our borders like the Eastern and Southern Africa Anti-money Laundering Group (ASAAMLG), which also comes to carry out mutual assessments. If this country does not abide by some requirements, it can be barred. There are countries that have been barred from transacting with other parts of the world for failure to comply with the requirements of institutions such as ASAAMLG. We, as a Government, has an obligation to abide by the requirements so that we do not get to a situation whereby this country is prohibited from transacting with the rest of the world in the running of its affairs.

 

Sir, I want to emphasise the point raised by the seconder of the Motion that we are in no way going to replace FIC with DEC. The Ministry of Home Affairs is very happy that the person at the helm of this institution is a product of DEC. We groomed her, and we are happy with the work that is being done. We need to collaborate and ensure that this institution operates competently without being drawn into public ridicule.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

The Minister of Finance (Dr Ng’andu): Mr Speaker, I wish to commend the Committee on Cabinet Affairs on a very detailed and elaborate report presentation before this House. The report has highlighted a number of important issues on the role of the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC) in the fight against corruption and financial crimes.

 

Sir, FIC operates under a legal framework, as enshrined in the Financial Intelligence Centre Act, 2010, as amended. The FIC is mandated to receive, request and analyse disclosures bordering on suspected money laundering, terrorism financing and other serious financial offences.

 

Mr Speaker, you may wish to know that the legal, regulatory and financial sanctions specific to the proliferation of financing crime exist in Zambia. The framework is provided for under the Anti-Terrorism and Non-Proliferation Act, 2018. The House may wish to note that institutions responsible for implementing the above legislation are the National Anti-Terrorism Centre and FIC. However, there have been deficiencies noted in the 2018 Mutual Evaluation Report on Zambia relating to the above recommendation, which needs urgent attention.

 

Sir, the Government, through the Ministry of Finance and in consultation with the Ministry of Home Affairs, will be presenting the proposed amendments to these pieces of legislation during this session of the National Assembly.

 

Mr Speaker, the House may wish to note that there is a strong link between corruption and money laundering. In order to effectively fight corruption, FIC collaborates with the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC). The collaboration between the two institutions is as provided for under Section 53(3)(a) which provides for co-operation and the exchange of information with law enforcement agencies. Further, the co-operation is enhanced between the two institutions through a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU).

 

Sir, during this session of Parliament, the Government, through the Ministry of Finance, will table the Bill with amendments to the Financial Intelligence Centre Act, 2010, which incorporates the recommendation to make it mandatory for law enforcement agencies or competent authorities to act on a matter referred to them by FIC and report on the progress and outcome of matters referred to them by the centre.

 

Mr Speaker, the Government appreciates the important role that FIC plays in combating financial crimes, including corruption. As such, through the Ministry of Finance, it will endeavour to increase the budgetary allocation and disbursements to FIC. The Government will ensure that funding to the centre is prioritised among other competing needs.

 

Sir, the Government, through the Ministry of Home Affairs and in conjunction with the Ministry of Justice, shall, through the Anti-Money Laundering Authority (AMLA), co-ordinate the capacitating of law enforcement agencies and the Asset Forfeiture Unit of the National Prosecution Authority (NPA) in order to ensure that Zambia prioritises the pursuit of criminal proceeds and combats corruption and financial crimes using financial intelligence gathered by FIC.

 

Mr Speaker, FIC has been positioned to undertake strategic analysis in order to validate information meant to establish the many crimes associated with money laundering and terrorist financing. The FIC, law enforcement agencies and other competent authorities have computer systems, which are not interconnected in some instances. The House may wish to note that the Ministry of Finance commits to engaging the Smart Zambia Institute, through Cabinet Office, on the need to expedite connectivity between the agencies involved in the fight against corruption and other financial crimes. The ministry shall also engage the Ministry of Justice to expedite the development and implementation of the case management system through the Smart Zambia Institute.

 

Mr Speaker, I wish to confirm that FIC has a strategic plan which runs through 2020 up to 2022 whose theme is “Enhanced Collaboration and Co-operation with Law Enforcement Agencies and Other Competent Authorities”. The Government will monitor the implementation of the strategic plan to ensure enhanced co-operation and co-ordination between FIC and law enforcement agencies. The Government recognises the ongoing awareness exercises which are being carried out by FIC in combating financial crimes.

 

Sir, before I end, I want to make the point that the role of FIC is very often misunderstood. The FIC and its trend reports give information on suspicious transactions, meaning information that is unconfirmed. An example would be, if I received K400,000 in my account and I am not accustomed to receiving that amount of money, that will immediately trigger a notice to FIC that something suspicious has happened on this account. The centre will, then, record that as a suspicious transaction and proceed to investigate it. If, on the one hand, it finds that I actually sold a piece of land to Mr X and that there was nothing suspicious about that transaction, then, that matter will rest. If, on the other hand, the transaction cannot be explained, then, that matter is escalated to the relevant investigative wing, whether it is the tax authority or police. That is the nature of the FIC report.

 

Mr Speaker, however, very often, the reported suspicious transactions are presented as if they impute that somebody had been found guilty of doing something that was wrong. I think that there is a need for clarity. It must be heard and understood by all those who are concerned that the nature of FIC is to flag suspicious transactions which are then subsequently investigated by authorities that have the power to investigate cases.

 

Sir, my ministry shall endeavour to increase the level of resources allocated to FIC for not only public awareness campaigns on the ills of corruption and other financial crimes, but also to make the public understand exactly what FIC is mandated to do so that the current misunderstanding that sometimes pops up becomes a thing of the past.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Dr Imakando: Mr Speaker, let me thank Hon. Zulu for seconding this Motion. I want to appreciate the debates by Hon. Mbangweta, Hon. Muchima, Hon. Mwila and Hon. Mecha, which supported the report. I also want to appreciate the clarification brought about by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Hon. Ngulube on the role of FIC. I think that clarification was well presented. Let me also thank the hon. Minister of Finance for accepting that he will do what he can to support budget allocations to FIC. This, indeed, is a very welcome development.

 

Sir, following the very supportive debate, I am urging this House to adopt the Cabinet Affairs’ Report.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Question put and agreed to.

 

MOTION OF THANKS ON THE PRESIDENT’S ADDRESS ON THE PROGRESS MADE IN THE APPLICATION OF NATIONAL VALUES AND PRINCIPLES

 

(Debate resumed)

 

Dr Chanda (Bwana Mkubwa): Mr Speaker, before business was suspended yesterday, I was quoting from page 9 of His Excellency the President’s Speech where he talked about tribalism and hate speech not having any place in Zambia. I said that it was not the responsibility of those in the Ruling Party only to ensure that Zambia was kept as “One Zambia, One Nation” because I have heard this trend of passing the ball by saying that it was the job of those in the Ruling Party. I said that it was the responsibility of every leader, whether in the Ruling Party, the Opposition or the civil society and every Zambian to keep Zambia as one.

 

Sir, His Excellency the President was very clear when he said that we are all equal shareholders in this enterprise called Zambia. This means that there is no superior or inferior tribe, but only one Zambia and one nation. That is what we are, equal before the nation.

 

Mr Speaker, when we have a perspective, as leaders, because we are leading many people who look up to us, we have to lead by example. For example, you cannot put your tribe or political affiliations ahead of your nationality. Zambia should always come first. We should distinguish issues of national importance from those of partisan importance and other minor issues.

 

Sir, it is only the motto of “One Zambia, One Nation,” as His Excellency the President reiterated,  that has kept this country very peaceful irrespective of the challenges that we may have had. From 1964 to date, Zambia is one of the most peaceful countries in the world. This is attested to by the recent Global Peace Index released on 16^th June, 2020, which ranks Zambia the fourth most peaceful country in Africa behind Mauritius, Botswana and Ghana. That has not happened by accident. It has come because our leaders have gravitated towards the notion of “One Zambia, One Nation”.

 

Mr Speaker, globally, Zambia is highly ranked. It is number forty-four out of 163 countries in the world. We are very peaceful. We are way ahead of France, the United States of America, South Africa and China because of the able leadership of His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu. These things do not just happen. They have to be worked at. This is why His Excellency the President has always worked on consensus and bringing everyone together. I urge hon. Members and the country at large to read the Global Peace Index, which is very clear.

 

Sir, I want to talk about what His Excellency the President said on pages 28 and 29 of his speech, as regards democracy and constitutionalism. He was very clear on the legal reforms that are going on in the country such as to the Public Order Act, addressing the lacunae in the Constitution and even strengthening the electoral process. Those are the three things that he talked about.

 

Mr Speaker, on page 29, His Excellency the President was very categorical on the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019. He said that chiefs and traditional leaders want to regain their heritage security and ensure smooth succession and Christians want to secure the Christian nation identity in the Constitution and not just in the preamble. There are many interests in the Bill covering women, the youth and the differently-abled who want their representation in Parliament. The Bill even addresses delimitation. The Judiciary also wants clarification on the hierarchy of the Supreme Court and the Constitutional Court. His Excellency the President talked about all these major issues. These are very important issues that we should not politicise.

 

Sir, as I said, those who think that they are enhancing their chances of winning the 2021 elections by sabotaging the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No.10 of 2019 have it wrong. What are they going to tell the 6 million youth, the 1.7 million differently-abled people and the women who are in the majority? Do those in the Opposition think that they will win elections after telling all of these people that they do not want them to come to this House? The same way they lost after sabotaging the Bill of Rights in 2016 is the same way they are going to lose in a big way if they sabotage what the people want.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Chanda: What are they going to tell people about delimitation? Are they going to tell them that they killed it because they did not want the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019?

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, thank you for according me the opportunity to debate the President’s Speech, which was delivered by His Excellency on Friday, 6^th March, 2020. Before I interrogate the President’s Speech, allow me to respond to what Hon. Dr Chanda of Bwana Mkubwa said.

 

Sir, actions speak louder than words. We are aware that several hon. Cabinet Ministers have been making tribal remarks and hate speeches against certain tribes in this country, but no action has been taken by the President of the Republic of Zambia. Therefore, it means that there is coadunation about hate speech and tribal remarks that have been made by known hon. Cabinet Ministers. 

 

Mr Speaker, it is also trite to state that the Constitution of Zambia is very specific when it comes to appointments in the Public Service. It talks about the consideration of ethnicity and region when it comes to appointments. However, what we have seen and what is on record is that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government does not do that. So, who is failing to adhere to the motto of “One Zambia, One nation? It is the PF. Evidence abounds in the nation, pointing to what the PF has done to destroy the unity of Zambia, as one nation. It has been doing this.

 

Sir, we have been referred to in the part of the speech of the President pertaining to constitutionalism and what the people of Zambia want. The PF has accused us of trying to sabotage the Constitution-making process in this country. Let me make it very clear that we have never done that. If anything, we have been very consistent. From the time the Constitution- making process started in 2011, our requests to the PF Government have never changed. We have been looking for consensus on the Constitution-making process.

 

Mr Speaker, when the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill was tabled on the Floor of this House in 2015, we debated and advised the PF that it would be haunted by what it was doing at the time and it has come to haunt it.

 

Mr Speaker, we debated and were defeated on the Floor of this House. However, today, the PF is crying foul about the clauses that it voted for on the Floor of this House. We advised it not to rush the Constitution-making process. However, today, the PF is saying that some of the clauses in the current Constitution are discriminatory and are targeted at His Excellency the President, Mr Lungu. Who brought the Bill to the Floor of this House, which is current? It is the PF.

 

Dr Malama: Question!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Who brought Article 52, which they now do not want? It is the PF.

 

Mr Speaker, when the Constitution was being debated on the Floor of this House, we never thought that His Excellency the President, Mr Lungu, would be President of this country. So, how can they say that Article 52 is targeted at him? How can they say that?

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mwiimbu: I have a newspaper here quoting the Government Chief Whip ...

 

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: ... who was interviewed by News Diggers. He has confirmed that Article 52 is targeted at His Excellency the President, Mr Lungu. Who assented to this Bill? Is it not His Excellency President Lungu? Was he discriminating against himself when he appended his signature? How can that be?

 

Mr Speaker, is the PF saying that it did not read what was brought before the House? Did it not read what was contained in the Constitution? What will make us believe that the PF has not read the Constitution which is before us? So, even now we are not sure whether the PF knows what it is bringing before the Floor of this House.

 

Mr Speaker, we are being told that ...

 

Ms Kapata: On a point of Order, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, the Member of Parliament for Monze Central, who is on the Floor debating, is not telling the truth.

 

Mr Speaker, in 2015, during the run-up to the elections, we saw our colleagues on your left come to obstruct the Hon. Mr Speaker by crying for the Constitution. Each time we spoke in this House, people were just shouting “Constitution! Constitution! Constitution!” They were moving from where they sat to the front blocking the Hon. Mr Speaker’s view. Today, he is there not telling the truth about what transpired towards the time His Excellency the President assented to the Constitution.

 

Mr Speaker, is he in order to come to this House and try to tell the nation things which were not there because he is one of the people who stood here and blocked the Hon. Mr Speaker and shouted over wanting the Constitution. His Excellency the President just assented to the Constitution so that he could give Zambians what they wanted. Hon. Mwiimbu even mobilised the civil society to start shouting “Constitution! Constitution! Constitution!”

 

Mr Speaker, I need your serious ruling.

 

Mr Speaker: My ruling is that the rules of the House do not require us to debate points of order. In order for us to move smoothly with this business, I will not allow anymore points of order. Those who would like to debate, and you are at liberty to do so should just indicate. If you want to challenge what your colleague is saying on the Floor, you can indicate. If there is some correction you would like to make, you can indicate. Those are the rules of debate.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, as the United Party for National Development (UPND), we are very consistent. We have been wanting a good Constitution. That is what we still want. We do not want a bad Constitution, as being provided for by the PF.

 

Mr Speaker, we have been told that if we want delimitation, we should support the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019. Can my colleagues on your right read the Constitution? That is why I am saying that they do not read. Articles 58 and 59 of the current Constitution of Zambia provides for the delimitation of constituencies.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order! Hon. Mwiimbu, resume your seat. 

 

There is no need for these running commentaries. There is really no need. I have already indicated. If you want to challenge his position, just indicate. We still have some time. The time now is 1633 hours, and I am not stopping the debate. This is the last business on the Order Paper. So, we have enough time to debate. If you run commentaries, I am consuming your time by giving you guidance, which you should be using yourselves.

 

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, the Constitution of Zambia is very clear, as read in Article 58 and Article 59. It provides for delimitation. We do not need the Constitution Zambia (Amendment) Bill No.10 of 2019 to undertake the delimitation of wards and constituencies. The law is already there. That is why the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) has been going around the country delimitating constituencies and wards. We do not need another law.

 

Mr Speaker, we, on the left, are being challenged on what we are going to tell the women and the youths. This is what we are going to tell them. We, as the UPND, believe in the rights of women, enhancement of their status, and representation in Parliament by emulating what is happening in Uganda, Rwanda, and Kenya. We will ensure that there is a constituency specifically for women in every district. That way, we will increase the number of women in Parliament and not what the Government is talking about. What the Government is proposing does not clearly state what it wants.

 

Mr Speaker, the current Constitution of Zambia talks about nominations. His Excellency the President has had the right to nominate the differently-abled, but has he ever done that? The answer is no. He has nominated none. How many youths has he nominated under the existing article? He has nominated none. As far as we are concerned, we are not going to support the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019. There is no Bill, as far as we are concerned and we will not participate in its enactment.

 

Mr Speaker, finally, we on the left have now known why the PF has been very emotional on the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019. It is because of Article 52 of the Constitution of Zambia, as they are afraid that their candidate will be challenged when he files in his nomination in August 2021. All the other issues being talked about are peripheral to the issue of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019.

 

Sir, Hon. Mundubile is very clear here as he talks about the issue of President Lungu not being a candidate in 2021, and that is the issue.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr S. Banda (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to debate the President’s Address. Indeed, it is a well-known fact that during the President’s Address to the nation, it is a time for self-introspection and self-criticism, as individuals, as a community and as a nation. It is not time to apportion blame, but a time to look at ourselves in the mirror to see the strides that we, as a country, have made in attaining the said values and principles. His Excellency the President merely comes to the House to indicate how best we have done, as a nation, in that area.

 

Mr Speaker, I am aware of the fact that a lot of salient matters were raised during the President’s Speech. Allow me to narrow down to one particular aspect that relates to morality and ethics because it is close to my heart. Allow me to quote the speech of the President under morality and ethics, which reads as follows:

 

“I would like to call upon the Church, traditional leaders, teachers, parents and guardians to fully take up their God-given role of positively guiding and mentoring our children and youth to become responsible citizens who value and uphold hard work, honesty, respect for human life, respect for elders, respect for property and respect for the environment. This involves valuing integrity, hard work, loyalty and honesty.”

 

Mr Speaker, I want to adopt this call as my own; the call to take up God-given roles of positively guiding and mentoring our children and the youths to become responsible citizens, which borders on entrenching and reaffirming the Christian character of our nation, as proposed in the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10.

 

Sir, how can we be hardworking and honest? We can only do that if we re-socialise our Christian values. How can we respect human life? We can only do that if we re-socialise our human values. Indeed, the President’s Speech was given at a time when the nation was passing through trying moments. At that particular moment, we saw on social media how some youths got involved in vices or certain crimes such as mob justice and propaganda. To my surprise, a well-known political party used that moment for political expedience.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

 

Mr S. Banda: Mr Speaker, it is a well-known fact that having responsible citizens and fostering a Christian nation character does not happen in abstract, but it is a deliberate effort made within a clarified Christian value. Therefore, for the President’s call to be actualised, there is a need to reaffirm a Christian nation character, which is proposed in the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10. It is on that basis that we are going to clarify and re-socialise our Christian values and will be able to embrace them at household, community and institutional levels.

 

Sir, regarding the Constitution-making process, there has been a level of insincerity on the part of our colleagues in the sense that they were talking about consensus. To the contrary, in the Constitution making process, the first aspects were the process, content, trust and court issues. I, therefore, do not know what consensus they are still talking about because by now, we would have reached that consensus. In any case, if insincerity were a political party, it would be a well-known party. The party misled people during the referendum on the Bill of Rights, but it is currently talking about the Bill of Rights. It is now misleading people about the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 and is being insincere about this Bill.

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, your time is up.

 

Mr Mwamba (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate the address by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, on Friday, 6^th March, 2020. He addressed the nation on the progress made in the application of national values and principles, and I heard two voices in his address.

 

Sir, His Excellency the President spoke of introspection and he said that national values and principles define who we are, as Zambians. During introspection, we have to look at many activities concerning national issues and responsibilities that we, as the people of Zambia, are given. Let me take, for instance, the voice I heard when His Excellency the President spoke about inculcating national values and principles in the Zambians. This is the responsibility that we inherited from our forefathers. It is our job to ensure that all children, as they grow are our children. It is also our responsibility to ensure that as they grow, we teach them the values of the nation, our tribes and ubuntu.

 

Sir, what I mean by this is that we must teach the children the respect that was accorded to us and inculcated in us when we were growing. For instance, when I was young, I was given information that at whatever level, whoever was older than me was my father. Therefore, I was to accord him the same respect I accorded my biological father. Thus, I want to tell the parents today that it is their responsibility wherever they find a child to ensure that he/she is given the right responsibility, is told the right words and is given the right work to do.

 

Mr Speaker, let me move to the teachers. The classroom is the environment in which children can get the best natural values and principles. Therefore, teachers have a responsibility to ensure that they inculcate the best morals and values of life in the pupils. Pupils should not take any values from the street. The values which pupils would take from the street would be those which would have been adulterated, and we would not want to do that.

 

Sir, I heard another voice in the President’s Address whereby His Excellency the President lamented how national values and principles have been adulterated. For instance, when you go to institutions of work, you will find that people have actually dropped the responsibility of ensuring that they report for work on time. They have forgotten that they should knock off at the right time to ensure that they are in the office for eight hours. It is immoral for someone to leave the office before he/she meets the eight-hour period, as required by the conditions of work. So, that is something that has adulterated our responsibility, as Zambians.

 

Mr Speaker, Zambians are known to be peaceful, hardworking and, morally upright. These are the tenets against which we are measured. We are seen to be a very peaceful and morally upright society. Therefore, His Excellency the President lamented how morals have been adulterated. It is our responsibility to look back ...

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, your time has expired.

 

Mr Kalobo (Wusakile): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me this rare opportunity to second this Motion of His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu’s Address, to this august House on the progress made on the application of national values and principles.

 

Sir, allow me also to thank His Excellency the President for his timely update and I thank all the hon. Members who debated this Motion. It is the prayer of the good people of Wusakile that it will be the responsibility of all of us who are here to ensure that national values and principles are upheld in our country.

 

With those few words, I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Question put and agreed to.

 

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ADJOURNMENT

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Sir, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

 

Question put and agreed to.

 

______

 

The House adjourned at 1650 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 2^nd July, 2020.

 

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